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Barbara
12-11-2003, 04:46 PM
Compliments of Cybersleuths

Thanks RR


http://www.nynewsday.com/ny-lijoel11q3579934dec11,0,2517597.story?coll=nyc-topheadlines-left


At least nobody can say Darnay isn't consistent in his track record

Imon128
12-11-2003, 04:53 PM
Steinburg and Nussbaum both deserve some severe head checks, in this case. That sweet child should never died. They were negiligent, and Steinburg was just plain mean...Nussbaum could be interpreted to be the same.

What an extremely sad case this is.

Barbara
12-11-2003, 04:54 PM
Perhaps Lin Wood can take Darnay under his wing and teach him how to defend baby killers.........and win!

Imon128
12-11-2003, 04:57 PM
I bet LinpWoody has some spare time, these days. I think his plot with ******* to get to internet forums flopped, due to hir refusals from forum owners, so Woody must be chomping at the bit.....pun intended for that great horseman, him. :-)

Barbara
12-11-2003, 05:00 PM
Originally posted by Imon128
Steinburg and Nussbaum both deserve some severe head checks, in this case. That sweet child should never died. They were negiligent, and Steinburg was just plain mean...Nussbaum could be interpreted to be the same.

What an extremely sad case this is.

Very sad indeed. If I'm not mistaken, there were TWO children that died in their care. There was also a baby boy.

IMO, they BOTH should have gone to prison, NEVER getting out.

Harsh, but my real feelings. AND...those who would befriend them

Imon128
12-11-2003, 05:06 PM
I see no defense for either, either. (what did I just say, LOL) Both knew prior to getting the child that they were unstable, yet caved to a selfish desire. The child paid the price. I also, somewhat, fault the neighbors who might have heard sounds of trouble emminating from Steinburg's rat nest, yet didn't get involved. If my memory serves me, there had been sound coming from the child who lived there, and nobody intervened. What a sad thing for that little girl to have died in such a manner. Knuckle bumps to them all who let this happen.

Seeker
12-11-2003, 05:10 PM
Barbara, the baby boy in question did not die. He is now living in obscurity and doesn't remember that period. I just saw something on him recently, but I forget exactly where it was.

Imon, Hedda was an extremely battered woman who had been brainwashed through repeated beatings to do exactly what Steinburg told her to do. She was terrified of him and I believe she was also a drug addict.

He's eligible for parole this June if I remember correctly. That's not a garauntee he'll be released.

Has Hoffman ever actually won a case?

Seeker
12-11-2003, 05:22 PM
Originally posted by Imon128
I also, somewhat, fault the neighbors who might have heard sounds of trouble emminating from Steinburg's rat nest, yet didn't get involved. If my memory serves me, there had been sound coming from the child who lived there, and nobody intervened. What a sad thing for that little girl to have died in such a manner. Knuckle bumps to them all who let this happen.

I thought the neighbors did call? Hang on while I look for that info....

Imon128
12-11-2003, 05:28 PM
Originally posted by Seeker
I thought the neighbors did call? Hang on while I look for that info....

Okay, Seeker, thanks. I thought I recalled reading that the neighbs had heard sounds prior, and never investigated. Looking forward to your reply.

Imon128
12-11-2003, 05:30 PM
Yes, Hedda had her problems, and I don't knock her for having them, particularly. What I'm trying to say is that she KNEW she was messed up, nad had no business bringing a child into the mess. I've felt pity for her when watching shows about her situation. But....no babies into that kind of mess, if she had any lick of sense. JMO. :-)

Seeker
12-11-2003, 05:35 PM
Originally posted by Imon128
Yes, Hedda had her problems, and I don't knock her for having them, particularly. What I'm trying to say is that she KNEW she was messed up, nad had no business bringing a child into the mess. I've felt pity for her when watching shows about her situation. But....no babies into that kind of mess, if she had any lick of sense. JMO. :-) Here (http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/family/lisa_steinberg/1.html) is the entire thing.


The female that answered the door was wandering around the apartment, hiding behind doors and rubbing her hands together. Her face had cuts and bruises around her eyes and nose. Her lip was split. Later, when she was examined at Bellevue Hospital, doctors found she had several broken ribs, a fractured jaw, a broken nose and severely ulcerated legs.

As far as I'm concerned Joel Steinberg is a horrible monster who should never see the light of day again. He beat and tortured Hedda & Lisa for years.

Imon128
12-11-2003, 05:38 PM
I recall seeing her photo with the beating marks. It was horrid, to say the least. And yes, Steinberg is at minimum, a monster. But I'm not excusing Hedda entirely, as she must have had a coherent moment enought times, to get the child out. Maybe she didn't, dunno, but I'm guessing she did. Steinberg would surely have challenged her on that kind of move, so perhaps that was a detriment for her. Still, indicates problems on her part, too.

ajt400
12-11-2003, 05:48 PM
Originally posted by Imon128
Yes, Hedda had her problems, and I don't knock her for having them, particularly. What I'm trying to say is that she KNEW she was messed up, nad had no business bringing a child into the mess. I've felt pity for her when watching shows about her situation. But....no babies into that kind of mess, if she had any lick of sense. JMO. :-)

That is the incredible thing about our country--
You have to have a liscense to fish, to hunt, to drive, to open a bar, to run a business,
But any fool can have a child and raise them how they see fit.
The honest---and sad---truth is there are hundreds, I am sure thousands, of kids in our country that suffer silently. With no headlines and no rescues.
The worst part is abuse is a cycle to be repeated.

Sabrina
12-11-2003, 06:58 PM
Something is wrong here, torturing and killing a child gets manslaughter with an 8-15 year term in New York?

We just put a couple on death row for a similar case. ROJAS. (Mr. Rojas is Westy's neighbor at San Quentin)

If Darnay was Steinberg's defense attorney, then he did one heck of a job , or the prosecutor must have been incompetent. This is sickening that he got manslaughter and only 15 years.

Sabrina
12-12-2003, 01:10 AM
http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/family/lisa_steinberg/1.html

I just realized Crime Library has the case in its files. There are photos there too.

Blazeboy3
12-12-2003, 02:39 AM
Originally posted by Imon128
Steinburg and Nussbaum both deserve some severe head checks, in this case. That sweet child should never died. They were negiligent, and Steinburg was just plain mean...Nussbaum could be interpreted to be the same.

What an extremely sad case this is.

Imon128: Ditto ... I agree totally ...!!!

Blazeboy3
12-12-2003, 02:45 AM
Originally posted by Seeker
Here (http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/family/lisa_steinberg/1.html) is the entire thing.
As far as I'm concerned Joel Steinberg is a horrible monster who should never see the light of day again. He beat and tortured Hedda & Lisa for years.

http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/family/lisa_steinberg/1.html
“Police!” Officer Daluise yelled, “Open up!” There was another pause. The door opened very slowly and a woman’s face peeked through the slim opening. It was dark inside. Daluise could barely make out details, but her face appeared bruised, mangled, swollen. He thought it was an older woman. She said nothing at first but when asked if she called the police, she said, “Yes.” As the cops and EMS workers entered the apartment and before they could react to anything else, a man came out of another darkened room. He was carrying a naked child in his arms by the armpits. The child was a little girl, unconscious, bruised and blue. The man said that she had just eaten something and vomited. He told the police he didn’t know what happened to her except that she passed out. Then he said that she had been vomiting since the night before. Cops saw additional bruising and welts on the little girl’s back. She was filthy. Her feet were coal-black and it appeared she hadn’t been bathed in a long, long time.

In the back of the room, cops saw the dim figure of a baby. When they investigated further, they saw that the infant was lying on the floor and tied to a playpen with a length of rope around his waist. His clothes were soaked with urine and his body was covered with dirt

Blazeboy3
12-12-2003, 02:48 AM
Originally posted by Sabrina
http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/family/lisa_steinberg/1.html

I just realized Crime Library has the case in its files. There are photos there too.

Interesting; very very sad!!!:(

RiverRat
12-12-2003, 08:56 AM
Trust Me - it was My pleasure and Thank you for sharing the info here.........want to see the article that Amy Fisher penned regarding Darnay and Joel?! Even she can understand that they are just taking up space on Planet Earth.

RR

lannie
12-12-2003, 12:55 PM
Originally posted by RiverRat
Trust Me - it was My pleasure and Thank you for sharing the info here.........want to see the article that Amy Fisher penned regarding Darnay and Joel?! Even she can understand that they are just taking up space on Planet Earth.

RR
Reply from Lannie,
Yes please give us the link .

RiverRat
12-12-2003, 01:38 PM
http://www.longislandpress.com/v01/i39031009/amyfisher.asp

lannie
12-12-2003, 02:05 PM
Thanks ,I had no idea, I don't get out much any more,what a hoot, I hope he never gets out or sees daylight again .

Maxi
12-12-2003, 03:50 PM
I see both Steinberg and Nussbaum as to very self absorbed people to whom the kids were just accessories in their little dominance games. It's my understanding that both were on drugs during that time, so that was probably one factor in the situation getting out of hand. Still, staying around to be battered yourself is one thing. Allowing your child to stay in the situation is another I have no sympathy for Nussbaum whatsoever, and I can't even say what I feel about Steinberg.

To be fair to Darnay, I believe he knew Steinberg before the murder. Perhaps Darnay sees drugs as the reason things went bad. There may have been other reasons for him defending Steinberg in the civil action brought by the birth mother. I don't think Darnay was Steinberg's atty for the criminal trial. Steinberg probably was convicted of manslaughter rather than murder because the child was (illegally) his daughter. Child abuse deaths rarely seem to get murder convictions unless the abuse was clearly intended to kill. How sad.

Seeker
12-12-2003, 05:30 PM
Yeah, Darnay knew and was good friends with Joel for 10 years before the murder...that means he was friends with him during the 6 years his best friend was abusing Hedda & Lisa.

Too bad Darnay wasn't his attorney in the criminal trial, maybe then Joel would have gotten the death penalty he so richly deserved.
Joel was only with Hedda 3 years before he stole Lisa...Hedda was already hooked on drugs compliments of Darnay's friend, and had been beaten into submission.

If any of my friends were druggies and were abusing their spouse/bf/gf I'd have called the cops on them, not aided and abetted by standing by and letting it happen.

I wish that random drug testing were mandatory on all attornies. They can start with Steven Feldman and Darnay Hoffman IMO.

Barbara
12-12-2003, 05:41 PM
Excellent post Seeker. I couldn't agree with you more. :clap:

Sabrina
12-12-2003, 07:20 PM
Amy Fisher is writing a regular column in Newsday! You can even send her questions...how funny! She does write quite well.

Ok, does anyone know what Nussbaum is up to these days?

Seeker, add Geragoes to your list.

cantaloupe
12-12-2003, 10:11 PM
New York State Department of Correctional Services
Inmate Information - Location/Status/Legal Dates/etc.
Back to NYS DOCS Home Page



Information/Error Message:
(Help) Date of Information: 12/12/03
(Help) DIN (Dept. Identif. Number) 89A2941
Inmate Name: STEINBERG, JOEL
Sex: MALE
Date of Birth: 05/25/1941
(Help) Race/Ethnicity: WHITE
(Help) Custody Status: IN CUSTODY
(Help) Housing/Releasing Facility: SOUTHPORT
(Help) Date Received (Original): 03/27/1989
(Help) Date Received (Current): 03/27/1989
(Help) Admission Type: NEW COMMITMENT
(Help) County of Commitment: NEW YORK
(Help) Latest Release Date/Type:
(Released Inmates Only)
(Help) Crime 1, Description: MANSLAUGHTER 1ST
Crime 1, Crime Class: B
Crime 2, Description:
Crime 2, Crime Class:
Crime 3, Description:
Crime 3, Crime Class:
Crime 4, Description:
Crime 4, Crime Class:
If all 4 crime fields contain data, there may be
additional crimes not shown here. In this case, the
crimes shown here are those with the longest sentences.
(Help) Aggregate Minimum Sentence: 008 Years, 04 Months, 00 Days
(Help) Aggregate Maximum Sentence: 025 Years, 00 Months, 00 Days
(Help) Earliest Release Date: 01/28/2004
Under certain circumstances, an inmate may be released
prior to serving his or her minimum term and before the
earliest release date shown for the inmate.
See "Help" for further information.
(Help) Earliest Release Type: PAROLE HEARING DATE
(Help) Parole Hearing Date: 01/2004
(Help) Parole Hearing Type: REAPPEARANCE
(Help) Parole Eligibility Date: 03/01/1996
(Help) Conditional Release Date: 06/30/2004
(Help) Maximum Expiration Date: 10/30/2012
(Help) Maximum Expiration Date
for Parole Supervision:
(Help) Post Release Supervision
Maximum Expiration Date:
(Help) Parole Board Discharge Date:

cantaloupe
12-13-2003, 03:30 PM
Parole hearing is coming up on Jan 28, 2004.

This might be the time to get busy writing letters to the NY State Parole Board, and let them know how you feel about the monster Joel Steinberg being back out on the streets.

Toltec
12-13-2003, 10:45 PM
What an extremely sad situation this story was. I remember seeing a picture of little Lisa in her school classroom staring out with vacant eyes. The little girls face really touched me.

I also recall watching the murder trial where Hedda was speaking on the witness stand. She looked like a professional boxer after a prizefight. I pitied her for having a monster for a boyfriend yet she was only thinking about herself and not Lisa. Anyone who puts themselves before a child is a monster in their own right.

Blazeboy3
12-14-2003, 03:46 AM
Originally posted by RiverRat
http://www.longislandpress.com/v01/i39031009/amyfisher.asp

Interesting URL/READ;I did enjoy!THANKS!

...partial post below:
http://www.longislandpress.com/v01/i39031009/amyfisher.asp?12142003

Perhaps Hoffman has the foresight to realize the first interview with Joel Steinberg is going to command a lot of money. I mean, everyone knows you get more bees with honey, right? Being sympathetic to Steinberg, offering him a job and then moving in for the kill, so to speak, has to have crossed the minds of the creators of New York Confidential. Steinberg may be a despicable human being. but you can bet your bottom dollar that every major network will be vying for his first words. We may not forgive him, many hate him, but we all want to hear what he has to say and the networks know it.

Joel Steinberg has never taken responsibility for killing Lisa. He has never said he was sorry or that he is a changed man. He maintains his conviction was based solely on his failure to obtain medical attention for Lisa. He refuses to acknowledge the horrific nature of his crimes.

It will be interesting to see how society receives Steinberg. Ultimately he will be judged by a society that he will be forced to live among, but as I have learned all too well, people will make him pay for his crimes for the rest of his life. Chances are, Joel Steinberg will be a pariah among us.

Blazeboy3
12-14-2003, 03:50 AM
http://www.religion-online.org/cgi-bin/relsearchd.dll/showarticle?item_id=831

Hearing and Healing Hedda Nussbaum - A Reflection on Mark 5:21-43by Liz Leibold McCloskey

Liz Leibold McCloskey is a trail preparation assistant for the Sex Crimes Unit of the Manhattan district attorney’s office. This article appeared in the Christian Century, February 15, 1989. Copyright by the Christian Century Foundation and used by permission. Current articles and subscription information can be found at www.christiancentury.org. This material was prepared for Religion Online by Ted & Winnie Brock.

Lisa Steinberg lay near death on the cold tile floor in the bathroom of her adopted parents’ Greenwich Village apartment. Hedda Nussbaum waited helplessly for the man she believed could heal Lisa to come and lay his hands on her. Joel Steinberg, Nussbaum’s lover and batterer for 12 years, had already laid his hands on Lisa on the evening of November 1, 1987, when he dealt the blow that would kill the six-year-old girl. Nussbaum’s request to Steinberg, like Jairus’s to Jesus in Mark 5:23, was that her daughter be healed. "My little daughter is at the point of death. Come and lay your hands on her, so that she may be made well, and live." Finally, 13 hours after Steinberg allegedly beat Lisa, he gave Nussbaum permission to call for help. She dialed 911, but it was too late, and the little girl died.

The Gospel account of the death and resurrection of Jairus’s daughter frames the story about a hemorrhaging woman who, like Nussbaum, sought healing from a man she believed had special powers. Although some commentators claim that the encounter with the hemorrhaging woman simply occupies an interlude in the story of Jairus’s daughter, her healing points to the faith necessary for new life. Understanding Lisa’s death and the battering of Nussbaum through the lens of Mark 5 can provide a new hope for all battered women.

On his way to heal Jairus’s daughter, Jesus was interrupted by a suffering woman in the crowd who touched his garment. She believed that she could break the cycle of physical torment and be made well simply by tapping the resource of Jesus’ power. Despite the urgency of Jairus’s plea, Jesus stopped immediately and inquired, "Who touched my garments?" Receptive to the particular touch of a bleeding and hurting woman, Jesus used the feminine pronoun in his question. But Jesus’ disciples exclaimed impatiently, "You see the crowd pressing around you, and yet you say ‘Who touched me?’"

The disciples’ impatient and incredulous tone is echoed in the contemporary attitude toward women who stay in abusive relationships. Many of us assume that we are not responsible for healing battered women. How can we possibly be expected to discern who they are, to recognize that they need help, when so many battered women seemingly ignore or refuse assistance? The question "Why does she stay?" receives more attention than "How have we failed to respond adequately to her touch?"

Fascination with the Steinberg murder trial centered more on the question of how Nussbaum could have remained with her abuser than on why Steinberg believed he had a right to shatter the lives of his adopted child and his lover. Because many women have absorbed the ethos of male dominance and female dependence, they do not believe in themselves enough to recognize injustice and leave a violent situation. When a woman begins to tell a story of abuse, she is reaching out for help and healing.

When Jesus was touched by the hemorrhaging woman, he responded to her touch and gave her the opportunity to tell her story "in fear and trembling." After listening to "the whole truth," Jesus affirmed the woman, saying: "Daughter, your faith has made you well; go in peace, and be healed of your disease."

Even as Jesus spoke, Jairus’s people came to report the death of his daughter. Because a woman needed healing, a little girl did not live. Jesus told the people, "Do not fear, only believe." He went to the little girl and, amid disbelieving laughter from those mourning her death, said to the child, "Tal’itha cu’mi," which means, "Little girl, I say to you, arise." She immediately arose and the people were amazed.

Jesus’ response to the hemorrhaging woman and his miraculous resurrection of the little girl provide a model for a religious response to domestic violence. As more and more abused women tell their stories, we must respond with the gospel mandate to care for the suffering and to proclaim a resurrection image, a new household of freedom and justice.

Nussbaum testified that she had once called her father and asked him to come and get her. When Steinberg arrived home, he found her packing her bags. Discovering that she had called her father, he knocked her down and then forced her to take an ice-cold bath. When Nussbaum’s father arrived, Steinberg asked him to take Lisa to the store. Upon his return, Nussbaum told her father that everything was fine and that she did not need any help. This pattern repeats itself over and over again in the tragic lives of battered women.

Nussbaum testified that she sought medical attention many times in her 12 years with Steinberg. In addition to being beaten, Nussbaum was burned, forced to take ice-cold baths and denied food, and her sexual organs were beaten with a broomstick. She suffered a ruptured spleen along with many other serious injuries. Nussbaum informed hospital personnel that her boyfriend had hit her, but she asked doctors not to put that on the record because, as she explained at the trial, she wanted to protect Steinberg. Many women do not report abuse out of loyalty to their men, or fear of the beating they will receive if their men find out.

The medical community needs to be more responsible for women like Nussbaum who are obviously in abusive situations. They must not only be able to detect signs of domestic abuse, but be ready to refer the abused to social services. This type of training is beginning to occur, yet the traditional myths that the woman is to blame or that domestic violence is a private issue still prevail. A number of years ago, a study at Yale-New Haven Hospital found that one out of four battered women left the hospital with such diagnoses as "neurotic," "hysterical," "hypochondriac," or "a well-known patient with multiple vague complaints."

Left unsupported, battered women often begin to believe that they have done something to deserve punishment. Nussbaum admitted that she had seen Steinberg as godlike and had believed that her emotional problems had caused all the stress in their apartment. Only after Nussbaum told her story to supportive listeners did she begin to understand the injustice and absurdity of that belief.

Police and legal responses, although improving, also reflect archaic stereotypes about domestic violence. Anglo-American law has traditionally granted men a legitimate right to beat their wives "when necessary." Because women were the property of the master of the house, men had a natural right and duty to maintain control and dominance. An 1824 Mississippi case voiced the lawful authority of men moderately to chastise their wives. The "Rule of Thumb" known from English common law, however, limited the weapon to a size no wider than one’s thumb.

Some police officers, although now mandated in some states to make arrests when responding to domestic disputes, still refuse to take, these situations as seriously as other assault calls. I have been told by many women with whom I’ve worked at the New Haven Project for Battered Women and at the Sex Crimes Prosecution Unit in Manhattan that the police have refused to make an arrest and simply walked the abusive man around the block to calm him down.

Once an arrest is made, the prosecution of a domestic crime is difficult because the legal profession has traditionally viewed it as something to be settled between a husband and wife. A woman may also feel guilty for helping to prosecute a man who continues to profess his love for her. Both these problems are reflected in a question I once heard a judge ask a battered woman, as he denied her a restraining order on her husband: "You don’t really want me to kick him out of his home, do you?" Until our cultural values about intimate relationships are consistent with the new laws regarding violence against women, we will continue to generate mixed signals about the need for justice in the home.

Women become more and more reluctant to report beatings, especially to a male pastor, when they believe the violence stems from their failure to be a perfect girlfriend, wife or mother. Nussbaum fully believed that Steinberg was a better parent and a better person than she was; thus her cry for help throughout her years with Steinberg was often barely audible.

Like Jesus, we must learn to recognize when a woman is in need of healing. When a woman continually blames herself for violence or abuse in her home, we should be able to recognize that she is touching the hem of our garment, desperate for help. Jesus stopped in the middle of a crowd on his way to an urgent mission to ask "Who touched me?" As soon as someone cared enough to ask that question, the woman felt free to come before Jesus and the crowd to tell her story. The truth flowed naturally and easily. She was instantly healed.

Blazeboy3
12-14-2003, 03:58 AM
Like Patsy: Job:Raise her from the dead...(JonBenet)?
http://starbulletin.com/2000/03/20/editorial/chang.html

In front of the Christmas tree? Did John put this gruesome discovery next to the cheery holiday symbol in an attempt to counteract the evil with goodness?

Or was it some kind of eerie symbolism? Patsy recalled how she bent over the corpse, became hysterical and asked God to raise JonBenet, as the Christmas tree sparkled behind them.

NOW, whenever we go to our favorite bookstore, they'll be there on the cover of their tell-all: the parents of pretty, precocious, golden-haired JonBenet Ramsey, may she rest in peace.

Should we get it to learn their side of the story, or shun it for fear of enriching two murderers and liars?

And if we do purchase a copy, is it just as bad as buying those supermarket tabloids and glossy magazines that keep a little girl alive while a criminal remains free and unindicted?

If he gets caught, think he's going to write a book, too?


*as posted above*

Lisa Steinberg lay near death on the cold tile floor in the bathroom of her adopted parents’ Greenwich Village apartment. Hedda Nussbaum waited helplessly for the man she believed could heal Lisa to come and lay his hands on her. Joel Steinberg, Nussbaum’s lover and batterer for 12 years, had already laid his hands on Lisa on the evening of November 1, 1987, when he dealt the blow that would kill the six-year-old girl. Nussbaum’s request to Steinberg, like Jairus’s to Jesus in Mark 5:23, was that her daughter be healed. "My little daughter is at the point of death. Come and lay your hands on her, so that she may be made well, and live." Finally, 13 hours after Steinberg allegedly beat Lisa, he gave Nussbaum permission to call for help. She dialed 911, but it was too late, and the little girl died

ajt400
12-15-2003, 04:15 PM
I spent pretty much my whole afternoon Monday reading the story in the crime library. I was seriously disturbed and saddened. This girl would have been a year younger than me! I cannot believe that they let Hedda Nessbaum go without ANY time at all!!! I understand that she was battered, and I am sorry about that, but she could have called the doctors or something. She checked herself into a hospital at one point when she was severely injured by this man, yet she could not get the strength to take her child to a doctor---or even call--when he had left the house for hours? That's ridiculous.....and seemingly selfish of her.

I just could not fathom having my child dirty and beaten, and another tied to a playpen?

I just cannot say in any words how horrible this case is......how many people did call the police and try to report these people, how many case workers actually came to their house and they said nothing was wrong. So many things went wrong in this situation.......

candy
12-15-2003, 06:03 PM
Ajt wrote: I cannot believe that they let Hedda Nessbaum go without ANY time at all!!!

Bingo. Joel's jury believed she was culpable at least as much as he was and refused to convict him of anything more than manslaughter for that reason. That's the bottom line. They threw out hir testimony against him as well as not credible.

Barry Scheck was the one who got hir the deal. I see no animosity towards that lawyer, or for Dan Petrocelli for representing Burmanese rapists, or Chuck Diamond for representing the Exxon Valdes, the biggest polluter in US history, just to mention who the OTHER lawyers in this case have represented.

Ivy
12-15-2003, 08:11 PM
Candy, even though Barry Scheck got Nussbaum the deal, did he become her friend? Does he socialize with her? Did Dan Petrocelli become a friend of the rapists he defended in court? Even if Diamond was friends with Exxon Mobil execs, and I don't know that he was, there's a BIG DIFFERENCE between being friends with people in Exxon Mobil (the successor company to Exxon) and being friends with scum-of-the-earth Joel Steinberg, child abuser and killer. For being friends with Joel Steinberg, Darnay has lost every bit of respect I once had for him, and in my book has no credibility whatsoever.

Britt
12-15-2003, 08:20 PM
Originally posted by Ivy
...there's a BIG DIFFERENCE between being friends with people in Exxon Mobil (the successor company to Exxon) and being friends with scum-of-the-earth Joel Steinberg, child abuser and killer. For being friends with Joel Steinberg, Darnay has lost every bit of respect I once had for him, and in my book has no credibility whatsoever.
Right on, Ivy. :bigthumb:

Maxi
12-15-2003, 08:51 PM
Let's carry the discussion of the Steinberg murder case over to the Jury Room or Crimes in the News. It's a fascinating case, with the battered woman angle and all, but we're getting far afield from the JonBenet case.

Shylock
12-15-2003, 10:41 PM
Originally posted by Ivy
Darnay has lost every bit of respect I once had for him, and in my book has no credibility whatsoever. I don't think it's a matter of "respect", the guy is just an out and out pizzz-poor lawyer. I wouldn't want him representing me for parking violations. Could the goof possibly have damaged this case more than he did?

Imon128
12-15-2003, 10:52 PM
If he's befriending Steinberg, that's surely not good for his reputation. Unthinkable that ANYBODY would befriend that creep. I can remember, still, the sick feeling in my stomach when I first heard about this case. I'm the type, I'd have been over there doing some door knocking, when I heard the child in distress. As I recall, the neighbors had heard some problems. Oh, I dare not go back there. What a skank!

candy
12-15-2003, 11:24 PM
Darnay knew Steinberg many years before he met Hedda. He did some legal work for Darnay. Darnay is NOT his friend now, he is his attorney. He offered Steinberg work so Steinberg would not reoffend when he is released from prison.

Imon128
12-15-2003, 11:32 PM
Thanks, candy, for the explanation. I don't recall, was Steinberg working when he did these terrible things in his home? That is, was he unemployed? My memory is foggy, sorry, it's been awhile since this happened, and I need brought up to speed. Thanks.

candy
12-15-2003, 11:57 PM
Yes Imon, Steinberg was working as an attorney when these things were occuring. He had a brownstone in the Village, upper middle class people.

Maxi
12-16-2003, 12:04 AM
Candy, I understand that Darnay knew Steinberg professionally and socially before the murder. I assumed Darnay figured Steinberg wouldn't have done what he did if he hadn't been on drugs at the time, and that's why he is helping Steinberg out. Is that what you mean by reoffending? Cause it doesn't seem likely he'd kill another child.

Imon128
12-16-2003, 12:08 AM
That is a little confusing. Also, if he was working and offended the first time, I don't know that I'd think that if he's working this time, he'd be less likely to offend. Unless it would infer that the offense would be less... oh, I'm confusing myself, here, but I've got some logic buried in there...really I do. :-)

Seeker
12-16-2003, 02:49 PM
Oh I see the BIG difference. Hoffman is not his friend NOW, but he was then and why would an attorney feel any obligation to get their client a job after they get out of prison if they aren't still friends?
But they aren't friends "now"....what a load.

This is just garbage and a vain attempt to justify his representation and FRIENDSHIP with Joel. Here, read Hoffman's words that he typed at you know who's.
"I am, however, suprised (and shocked) that the same posters who have spent months defending the heinous conduct of David Westerfield, are now so hypocritically denouncing Joel Steinberg. At least Joel Steinberg attempted, however unsuccessfully and dysfunctionally, to raise Lisa as his daughter for 6 years and to provide a family for her."

I wonder how he can sleep at night, making excuses for a child murderer who is his friend is inexcusible.

Seeker
12-16-2003, 02:58 PM
Oh and before anyone attempts to bother with the archives at you know who's, candy has posted Hoffman's statements at CS.

Hoffman show's his lack of moral ethics with this statment as well. Now tell me after reading this if they (DH & JS) aren't still friends.

"Now, as for my representation of Steinberg. I agreed to represent Joel Steinberg pro bono (without a fee) in the personal injury action brought against him by Lisa's natural mother because I thought there was something fundamentally unfair about a "mother," who gave her daughter up for adoption without even bothering to tell her ex-boyfriend that he was a father (this is a blantant lie by DH, read the crimelibrary for the truth) so he could decide whether he wanted to raise the child, suddenly wanting a lot of money; a mother who then refused to come forward and claim her daughter's body when she died and only did so after being pressured by the police; a mother who lobbied the New York State legislature to pass a special law to allow her to sue, when the prior law had prevented mothers who had "abandoned" their children through adoption from financially benefitting from their deaths; a mother who cashed in with a book deal ("I Wish You Didn't Know My Name" Warner Books, 1990); a mother who received nearly a million dollar settlement from the City of New York and still wants more money (a hundred million from Joel Steinberg)and more publicity.
I am as offended by Michele Launder's attempt to cash in on her daugther's death as I am offended by what the Ramseys have done in taking financial advantage of JonBenet's murder from their lawsuits and book deal. All of these parents, in my opinion, have shamelessly exploited their children for financial gain."

Michelle was just 18 years old and thought she had a GOOD attorney who LIED to her and STOLE her child, ILLEGALLY!!

But anything to defend his friend, even victimizing the mother of this little girl when she thought she was doing the right thing for her.

Barbara
12-16-2003, 03:22 PM
Once again Seeker,

:bowing:

One can't help but wonder how anyone could be Joel's friend for so many years BEFORE the murder, know his friend was drugged out and God knows what else, has TWO small children and DID NOT REPORT HIM TO ANYONE AND DID NOT GET HIM HELP!

Now I agree that Hedda Nussbaum should have gone to prison right alongside Joel, for my sympathy in this case goes to the children. Hedda was over 21 and could choose to stay if she wished, but Lisa was solely dependent on both Joel and Hedda and as such, could not make any decisions for herself.

Dirty, rotten bastards! (yes that includes Darnay). How dare he pretend to care about JonBenet while caring for his FRIEND Joel Steinberg!

I'm even ashamed that I "USED TO" ADMIRE HIM!

What a loser! (and not only all his court cases) but in real life!

Maxi
12-16-2003, 03:52 PM
I really think Darnay may justify it to himself by blaming the drugs for Joel's violent behavior. Joel may have seemed like a nice guy before he got involved in drugs. IMO, that was probably a facade, but Darnay may feel otherwise.

I do think the birth mom has a good case. I can't imagine the emotional suffering she went through after she found out what happened to her baby. If she had actually abandoned her baby, or if Joel Steingberg hadn't misrepresented his intentions, it would be different. I think she'll win in court but never collect much from Steinberg. But, at least, he'll have that hanging over him as a reminder of how many people he hurt with his stupid games and drugs.

I think Darnay has done lots of good in the JonBenet case, tho. He's been a burr in the side of the Boulder authorities so they couldn't quietly sweep the case under the rug. (Two cliches in one sentence there!) I am grateful to him for that, whether or not he did it for publicity.

ajt400
12-16-2003, 04:15 PM
I think the case is a good reference for women who are thinking of giving their kids up for adoption.