Did Raven know Janet was pregnant?

[radar]

How do we know if Raven knew about Janet being pregnant? Didn't it come as a surprise to everyone?

[golfmom]

How do we know if Raven knew about Janet being pregnant? Didn't it come as a surprise to everyone?

The only reason I suspect that Raven did in fact know that Janet was pregnant is that it not standard for the ME to perform a pregnancy test. So, unless RAVEN gave them some reason to suspect that she was pregnant ... no one would have ever known that she was. :(

[ewwwinteresting]

How do we know if Raven knew about Janet being pregnant? Didn't it come as a surprise to everyone?
It came across as a surprise to us sleuthers here. But was raven surprised? Was his family? We don't know.

I'm going on the fact that GM mentioned above and also the statistic about the number one cause of death of pregnant women is murder and the way raven handled himself at the courthouse. If he had just found out that week that his wife was carrying his child when she was murdered, he certainly didn't seem that broken up about it.

[ewwwinteresting]

BTW Radar, welcome to WS and the forum. Glad to have your input here.

[Jenifred]

I don't know if it would be routine to check a woman's uterus during an autopsy, but the uterus does change color once a woman becomes pregnant (due to increased blood flow). But like I said, I wouldn't think that is routine to check. I agree with GM that there was probably an existing reason for the medical examiner to test Janet.

[dbmthur]

Maybe they were checking to make sure she wasn't raped before being killed? And that is how they came across the fact that she was pregnant? They said there was HCG present (at least I think I read that someone posted that here at WS) in her blood...are you sure they don't test a woman of childbearing age's blood for pregnancy along with the other standard tests? (whatever they are)

[ewwwinteresting]

Maybe they were checking to make sure she wasn't raped before being killed? And that is how they came across the fact that she was pregnant? They said there was HCG present (at least I think I read that someone posted that here at WS) in her blood...are you sure they don't test a woman of childbearing age's blood for pregnancy along with the other standard tests? (whatever they are)
We need a ME to post here what is standard and what isn't. Anyone know of one?

[JerseyGirl]

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Raven Says . . . (http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=792660&postcount=42) (some good links in this old post)

From what we know:

1) Janet's uterus was noted as "unremarkable".

2) The endometrium was thickened.

3) Raven mentioned her being in her normal "bad cramps" position.

According to the information I've found, by week 4 of pregnancy, you are just missing your menstrual period. By week 6 of pregnancy, a doctor can notice a change in the size of the uterus. If Janet's endometrium was thickened, then she was very near, at, or past her due date for her period for that month. So my guess is that she was at least four weeks pregnant but not yet six since her uterus was not noted as being enlarged.

What I find interesting is this:

WebMD with AOL Health - Pregnancy Week by Week - First Month (http://aolsvc.health.webmd.aol.com/content/article/64/72360.htm)

Week 4

You're probably expecting your period this week, and if it doesn't occur it might be one of the first signs that you're pregnant. (My note: Many sexually active women take a home pregnancy test the day after missing their period.)

WebMD with AOL Health - Pregnancy Week by Week - Second Month (http://aolsvc.health.webmd.aol.com/content/article/64/72363.htm)

Week 5

Still no big changes to notice in yourself, although you might suspect by now that you're pregnant.

Raven's claim that she was in her normal position for when she experienced bad cramps sounds to me like Raven at least knew that it was time for Janet to be having her period. Can we assume that he knew that she was pregnant? Not at all. BUT - he mentioned "bad cramps" as if he knew that she was due for her period, the lining of her uterus was indeed thickened, she was probably at the stage of pregnancy when most women usually take a home pregnancy test, and she mysteriously ended up dead. How odd that Raven mentioned cramps and that he found Janet on her knees - what are the chances that a murderer went into that home, killed Janet, and she somehow just happened to end up on her knees in the exact same position that she normally took for menstrual cramps so close to the very time that she actually should have been having her period - leading Raven to believe that she was alive & suffering cramps when she was actually dead & pregnant? If he had "found" her on her knees like that two weeks earlier or two weeks later, surely he would have found it odd since she wasn't due for her period at those times. (And keep in mind that the position in which Raven claims to have found Janet was: 1) only seen by him, and 2) a very unusual position for a deceased person.) It all just seems a little too convenient to me - mentioning cramps when she was pregnant; mentioning shooting when she was stabbed, mentioning that she was "upstairs hurt" when she was dead, etc.

IMO, Raven said these things to separate himself from knowledge of the crime. And his mention of cramps leads me to believe that he was trying to separate himself from the motive.

[radar]

The only reason I suspect that Raven did in fact know that Janet was pregnant is that it not standard for the ME to perform a pregnancy test. So, unless RAVEN gave them some reason to suspect that she was pregnant ... no one would have ever known that she was. :(
Didn't Raven say that Janet was doubled over with cramps? Why would the ME do a pregnancy test unless it is routine? Don't they just do some kind of a blood test to find out?

[JerseyGirl]

How do we know if Raven knew about Janet being pregnant? Didn't it come as a surprise to everyone?It did come as a suprise to family members. However, when a woman is in her fourth or fifth week of pregnancy, it is not uncommon for family to be unaware. Many people wait until the first trimester is over to share the news since most miscarriages happen in the first trimester. A miscarriage is very traumatic, and that trauma is magnified if you also have to go around telling everyone else that you lost your baby. So many people choose to wait.

Also, if a baby is conceived in a less than desirable situation, many people don't share that news right away until some decisions are made. If finances are awful or two people are fighting over whether or not they're in a position to have another child, they won't typically run all over town with the news because it is a source of stress and conflict.

So whether or not it came as a shock to family members doesn't really matter. Janet was most likely at the stage of pregnancy during which she would have discovered that pregnancy. And even if she chose not to share that information with other family members, surely she would have informed Raven. ETA: Even if Janet and Raven were excited about this pregnancy, given her past tubal pregnancy, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if they had chosen to wait to tell people.

[JerseyGirl]

Didn't Raven say that Janet was doubled over with cramps?And it's a good thing for the person that wanted Janet dead that she happened to end up in her "bad cramps position" at the very time that she was due for her period. If the murderer had struck at any other time or if Janet had landed in any other position, then Raven might have noticed something was wrong, and had time to call 911 before she died.

I don't mean anything negative towards you, radar. Your point is certainly valid. I just want to illustrate the amazing coincidences that exist if Raven is not the perpetrator.

[JerseyGirl]

Didn't Raven say that Janet was doubled over with cramps? Why would the ME do a pregnancy test unless it is routine?It could be that Raven mentioning cramps sent up a red flag for investigators. I'm sure they've seen their share of perps that use certain language to try to separate themselves from the crime.

[radar]

I think you posters put too much emphasis on Raven knowing when his wife's period is due. Come on, this guy is into sports, cars, etc. I am sure that is one of the last things on his mind.

[Jess]

Radar, he was a "normal" guy wasn't he ? Then he'd have sex on the mind, too !!They were a young married couple !

[radar]

Radar, he was a "normal" guy wasn't he ? Then he'd have sex on the mind, too !!They were a young married couple !
Sex on the mind sure, but didn't he also have affairs? Like I said he had a lot of things on his mind and his wife's period would be one of the last.

[golfmom]

It'll be interesting to see if Janet shared the information of her pregnancy with friends locally, especially in light of their obvious concern for her safety.

[JerseyGirl]

I think you posters put too much emphasis on Raven knowing when his wife's period is due. Come on, this guy is into sports, cars, etc. I am sure that is one of the last things on his mind.Most men know when their wife has her period. They were married almost five years. I'm as sure as I can be that Raven knew when Janet was expecting her period.

[JerseyGirl]

Sex on the mind sure, but didn't he also have affairs? Like I said he had a lot of things on his mind and his wife's period would be one of the last.Jess' point is that many people do not have sex during that time of the month. For that reason alone, there is a good likelihood that Raven knew when Janet did or didn't have her period because they were obviously a sexually active couple. He'd most likely know when it was or wasn't a good time for sex.

[OffRoad]

It'll be interesting to see if Janet shared the information of her pregnancy with friends locally, especially in light of their obvious concern for her safety.

I am not sure if Janet told her family, or even Raven about the pregnancy, but I do know that she did tell one or two of her closest friends.

[golfmom]

I am not sure if Janet told her family, or even Raven about the pregnancy, but I do know that she did tell one or two of her closest friends.

Interesting OR, thank you so much for letting us know that. So at the very least this clears up if Janet knew she was pregnant. Obviously she did if she told at the very least one friend. I imagine that Janet took a home pregnancy test to confirm that she was in fact pregnant. I seem to remember that they are accurate up to the first day of your missed period.

So, did Raven clue LE into Janet's pregnancy or did her friend????? hmmmm

[radar]

Are women's periods always at the same time of the month each month? I don't know except that my sister has mentioned that she has bad cramps because she is not "regular". Maybe Janet wasn't regular either.

[Jenifred]

I think that there are very few women that can keep a pregnancy seceret--from either a husband, friends, family, whatever. I think usually there will be someone that knows. I know that I've always wanted to "suprise" my husband with the news, but have never been able to because I can't keep it a seceret. I tried not to tell family once, so that I would be farther along, that didn't work either. I'm just guessing that I'm not alone.

So, Janet's close friends knew, which leads me to believe that there is a stronger possibility that Raven knew.

[Jenifred]

Are women's periods always at the same time of the month each month? I don't know except that my sister has mentioned that she has bad cramps because she is not "regular". Maybe Janet wasn't regular either.
They usually are. Now there are acceptions, but if women are on a regular schedule, they know which week during the month to expect "aunt flo." It might be a little more difficult to pin down a day though.

[ewwwinteresting]

I am not sure if Janet told her family, or even Raven about the pregnancy, but I do know that she did tell one or two of her closest friends.
This is BIG information. Janet knew for sure and even told one or two of her friends...that, imo, makes it even more likely she told raven. Can we guess how his reaction was???? Probably just like the first time.:loser:

[golfmom]

This is BIG information. Janet knew for sure and even told one or two of her friends...that, imo, makes it even more likely she told raven. Can we guess how his reaction was???? Probably just like the first time.:loser:

Yeah, from all accounts he wasn't too thrilled about the first pregnancy and even implied that Kaiden might not be his. :(

[JerseyGirl]

Are women's periods always at the same time of the month each month? I don't know except that my sister has mentioned that she has bad cramps because she is not "regular". Maybe Janet wasn't regular either.Some women aren't regular. But the majority of women get their period every 28 days. The day you get it, you count forward 28 days, and that is when you will get it again. Some women can run on a 26 day schedule, some on a 30 day schedule but overall, a majority of healthy women in Janet's age group can write the period schedule on their calendar, and it will show up with amazing accuracy.

ETA: Many, many women get cramps - regardless of whether or not they are "regular". Cramps are one of those things that usually come along with menstruation. Almost all women experience some form of discomfort around their period.

[golfmom]

Mozzletoff Raven, I hear congratulations are in order on the birth of your niece.

I don't suppose she's been named myuncleizaconfiktdfelon

[terminatrixator]

This is BIG information. Janet knew for sure and even told one or two of her friends...that, imo, makes it even more likely she told raven. Can we guess how his reaction was???? Probably just like the first time.:loser:
No I think his reaction was a little different this time......he took care of this situation, himself, it may seem.

[Moxie]

Mozzletoff Raven, I hear congratulations are in order on the birth of your niece.

I don't suppose she's been named myuncleizaconfiktdfelonor myuncleiza'loser'work'ingin'a'bkeshop'bekus'he'get s'afired'everywhere'else

That whole convicted felon thing is a real bummer when trying to get a job.

[radar]

I am not sure if Janet told her family, or even Raven about the pregnancy, but I do know that she did tell one or two of her closest friends.Do you know this couple? Are you one of the "closest friends"?

[ewwwinteresting]

:laugh: or myuncleiza'loser'work'ingin'a'bkeshop'bekus'he'get s'afired'everywhere'else
So not funny :)

[Moxie]

:laugh:
So not funny :)
You know, you're right. This whole thing is so not funny.

How does someone kill the mother of his child(ren)?????????????

[ewwwinteresting]

You know, you're right. This whole thing is so not funny.

How does someone kill the mother of his child(ren)?????????????
Correct. It is just mind boggling to try and figure out why someone would do this.....with all these dreary issues being constantly thought about and talked about and sleuthed about, it helps, periodically, to be able to laugh. Thank you for providing that with your witty post!

[radar]

We don't know if they were practicing birth control or not. We don't know if the had discussed having another child. Do we?

[Jess]

Well, Radar, seeing as they were a young married couple who were having marital relations, it is not outside the realm of possibility that they had discussed another child. I don't know if you are male or female, but certainly my husband was "in tune" with me and suspected I was pregnant long before I was certain.We still don't know if Raven knew Janet was pregnant, but I suspect he did if he was the "loving " husband and father he likes to portray himself as.

[JerseyGirl]

We don't know if they were practicing birth control or not. We don't know if the had discussed having another child. Do we?As a sexually active couple, the possibility always exists that you might become pregnant, regardless of birth control. And if they were married for five years, I'm positive that Raven knew when Janet was due for her period. And I'm positive that Raven knew the first day that it didn't come.

[terminatrixator]

I'm sure that Janet knew for sure and I could almost guarantee that she told Raven and he knew and wasn't too thrilled, like he was thrilled with Kaiden.

[LTUlegal]

I'm sure that Janet knew for sure and I could almost guarantee that she told Raven and he knew and wasn't too thrilled, like he was thrilled with Kaiden.
Was he thrilled about her pregnancy with Kaiden? For some reason, I thought he wasn't...please don't make me look for the threads, I"m feeling far too lazy right now.:hand:

[LTUlegal]

going back to the original question....I have no doubt that Raven knew Janet was pregnant. Which makes me even angrier.

[ewwwinteresting]

going back to the original question....I have no doubt that Raven knew Janet was pregnant. Which makes me even angrier.
I wasn't quite sure before but with OR confirming that at least one and maybe two of Janet's friends knew, then I'm sure raven also knew.

What makes me furious is the fact that not only was Janet brutally murdered (which is bad enough), but now she became one of those damn statistics!:furious: