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View Full Version : CA - Eliza Jane Scovill, 3, dies of untreated AIDS, Van Nuys, 16 May 2005





tybee204
09-25-2005, 11:46 AM
By Charles Ornstein and Daniel Costello Times Staff Writers
Sun Sep 25, 7:55 AM ET



Christine Maggiore was in prime form, engaging and articulate, when she explained to a Phoenix radio host in late March why she didn't believe HIV caused AIDS
The HIV-positive mother of two laid out matter-of-factly why, even while pregnant, she hadn't taken HIV medications, and why she had never tested her children for the virus.

"Our children have excellent records of health," Maggiore said on the Air America program when asked about 7-year-old Charlie and 3-year-old Eliza Jane Scovill. "They've never had respiratory problems, flus, intractable colds, ear infections, nothing. So, our choices, however radical they may seem, are extremely well-founded."

Seven weeks later, Eliza Jane was dead.More at link (http://news.yahoo.com/s/latimests/20050925/ts_latimes/amothersdenialadaughtersdeath;_ylt=AiLjt1c4odF9fCw RMJfZC9Ks0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3b2NibDltBHNlYwM3MTY-)

mysteriew
09-25-2005, 11:59 AM
It never ceases to amaze me how stupid some people are. That poor little girl. That woman should be shot.

Casshew
09-25-2005, 12:48 PM
The cause, (of death) according to a Sept. 15 report by the Los Angeles County coroner, was AIDS-related pneumonia.
She and her husband, Robin Scovill, said they have concerns about the coroner's findings and are sending the report to an outside reviewer.
Still in denial - till the end

lynie
09-25-2005, 01:26 PM
Wow...one thing I have learned while being a mom is that I am not a doctor.

I am so sorry for Eliza that she had parents that apparently know it all....and put their kids lives on the line to prove it... :furious:

BillyGoatGruff
09-25-2005, 03:32 PM
It never ceases to amaze me how stupid some people are. That poor little girl. That woman should be shot.
This mindset is one of the reasons that AIDS swept through Africa the way it did.

Mabel
09-25-2005, 04:18 PM
The last paragraph - Maggiore wonders:


"Why our child so appreciated, so held, so carefully nurtured and not one ignored, abused or abandoned?" she wrote. "How come what we offered was not enough to keep her here when children with far less impatient distracted parents, a small apartment on a busy street, extended day care, Oscar Mayer Lunchables will happily stay?

Someone please smack that woman. Hard.

Details
09-25-2005, 05:10 PM
Why? Because you were an idiot who effectively killed your daughter by making her part of a medical experiment for a theory you wanted to believe in.



People need to learn the limits of their knowledge - but even without that, using your own child as part of the experiment, deliberately choosing not to use everything possible to keep her healthy is horrible!

CyberLaw
09-25-2005, 11:43 PM
Can someone post a link to an article or transcript of this womens inerview.

I remember seeing this on a episode of "Judge Amy".

I am wondering if this women was charged and if her other child was taken away.

My thoughts on the matter is that the women is not only stupid, is that she does not accept any responsibility for causing her daughter death........

I would lose count if I actually acknowledged how many people I know who don't take any responsibity for their actions and live by the motto: Lie and Deny......

SewingDeb
09-26-2005, 08:30 AM
It never ceases to amaze me how stupid some people are. That poor little girl. That woman should be shot.

I agree, especially since she has written a book teaching other parents with HIV not to have their children tested.

tompettyfan
09-27-2005, 01:23 AM
This story simply boggles my mind. So tragic and preventable. My son's doctor recently requested that I bring him back for a complete physical after a visit when he was sick in which he noted that my son had dropped quite a bit of weight in around a 6 month time span. Well, I knew that my son had been increasingly active with skateboarding,bike riding, running etc. and had also started eating healthier. I felt that there was probably no underlying problem to be concerned about. HOWEVER, there is NO way I would not have taken him for that physical just to make sure!!! I took him, and he is in perfect health thankfully, but there's no way I would have not listened to his doctor and taken that simple step just to be on the safe side.

SewingDeb
09-27-2005, 01:27 AM
You're a wise parent.

GonzoReiter
09-27-2005, 01:31 AM
Can someone post a link to an article or transcript of this womens inerview...

Look on the Right Hand Side of Page Linked Here for Interviews (http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/la-me-eliza24sep24,0,4062292.story?track=hpmostemailedli nk)

Norma
09-27-2005, 05:20 AM
http://www.mg.co.za/articlePage.aspx?articleid=251975&area=/breaking_news/breaking_news__international_news/
Jay Gordon, a Santa Monica paediatrician who treated Eliza Jane, said he regretted not testing for HIV when he examined her for an apparent ear infection 11 days before her death.

"It's possible that the whole situation could have been changed if one of the doctors involved -- one of the three doctors involved -- had intervened," Dr Gordon, told the LA Times. "Do I think I'm blameless in this? No, I'm not blameless."

lisag
09-27-2005, 09:02 AM
Wow...one thing I have learned while being a mom is that I am not a doctor.

I am so sorry for Eliza that she had parents that apparently know it all....and put their kids lives on the line to prove it... :furious:


I agree 100% !!

CyberLaw
09-27-2005, 11:14 AM
Thanks Gonzo for the Link to the stories......

Unfortunately this women reminds me of a cult leader.

So she is the leader of the "cult" of HIV does not cause AIDS.......

Just like some people believe that "faith" will heal things like cancer and other serious diseases. Even when the person dies, they still believe that they did not pray enough. Never the truth......but their version of the truth.

This women is an uneducated and ignorant person and is spreading that "ignorance" which some people desperate to "believe" that they won't die of this infection, find "comfort" in choosing to believe her.

That is their choice. They are playing russian routlete with their health, but unfortunately some parents do that...........and suffer the consequences.

This women will die of this disease, just a matter of when.........let her "supporters" try to "spin" that.........

This women should have been a politician.........she certainly has the BS factor going for her......

Unfortunately, her daughter paid for her mother's ignorance with her life.......

Or maybe we should drop her off in the middle of Africa and let her see and experience the "AIDS" orphans and see how people are suffering...........with HIV and lack of meds.........

But of couse she will say: They don't have AIDS........they are "wasting away" from lack of food..........

IIgnorant people follow ignorant people...........and believe them........because the alternative is to admit you are wrong........and that you may die of AIDS.............place your hands over your eyes, and say: I don't see you, I don't hear you, I don't beleive you..........than to face reality. Denial is easier for some then the truth...........

Details
09-27-2005, 01:41 PM
There also needs to be more understanding of science - what it means when there is peer reviewed science, that there is always disagreement, that a true scientist will pretty nearly never say they are positive, certain, 100% sure - because that's the way their minds have to work - everything is a theory, no matter how well backed up; and being quite sure something is happening doesn't ever equal to 100% certainty - they're not even 100% certain gravity is correct!

Non scientists hear this, and combined with a quack and some wishful thinking, they think that calling something a theory, having debates about the exact mechanisms means that the facts are still open, unknown, when that's not really true. Somewhere or other, there needs to be some better communication - either of what the scientific method is, or scientists need an appointed liar to cast their results in terms people are more likely not to mistake.

CyberLaw
09-27-2005, 07:59 PM
You have to be intelligent to understand Science, but if you are not an intelligent person then Science will make no sense to you.

There is world wide proof that HIV leads to AIDS....there are and have been so many people worldwide who have died of AIDS, thousand of report, hundreds of research papers, and still we get this women who denies this is the truth.

So she feels that she is so much smarter then people who have degrees, medical degrees. For Goodness sake, she does not even have a College Degree but she feels that she is right.

Talk about ignorance and arrogance......a deadly combination........

Details
09-27-2005, 08:20 PM
But it's a very common thing, and being promoted by a bunch of people - from the media that has caved in and now just reports any old thing without trying to state if it is true or not to avoid accusations of bias; to politicians choosing what to believe and hiring only scientists that find results that agree with their political aims; etc. There is more that can be done to help people to understand science, to know what to respect and what not to.

Bobbisangel
09-27-2005, 09:14 PM
I just can't imagine not having the kids tested. It just makes sense. I guess if you don't have them tested then you don't have to face them being HIV positive if that is the way the tests turn out. You can go on through life pretending everything is just wonderful....until one of your children die of an HIV related problem. It's no big thing to have the kids tested and save their lives if they are HIV positive. Just because the mother made the choice not to take the meds for her HIV she didn't have the right to make that choice for her children.

On the other hand, mothers make the choice of whether their kids live or die on a daily basis...it is called abortion.

concernedperson
09-27-2005, 09:21 PM
Then there are some parents who just refuse to see a flaw. Even if it is in your face.They justify everything as it couldn't be me. What do you do? Sometimes justice doesn't wear a big hat sometimes justice is wearing a beanie.

blueclouds
12-09-2005, 12:48 PM
ANYONE SEE THIS LAST NIGHT ON PRIMETIME? OMG I'm absolutely infuriated. This woman should of had her kids taken away.

http://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/Health/story?id=1386737&page=1


and on top of it all, she nursed her daughter.... refused to get her kids tested for the HIV virus and now her daughter is dead. Several doctors have stipulated that the child died from aids related immune causes.

THE ONLY DOCTOR THAT STATES THE CHILD DIED FROM an allergic reaction to pennicillin is the doctor that sits on this WOMAN'S BOARD FOR HOLISTIC CARE. HUMMMM :waitasec: :banghead:

Poor baby. That child was her fricking experiment to prove that it couldn't be passed on from mother to child.... and now the child is dead.

Someone better put her hiney in jail. :furious:

Only4Justice
12-09-2005, 01:28 PM
blueclouds, I saw this! I am appalled at the mother's behavior. :(

Was it really necessary to breastfeed her children? Her ego seems to be a big part of her problem.

It was quite obvious from the coroner's report that this child died from AIDS. I was convinced when they showed the cells inside the poor child, and identified the AIDS virus.

Eliza Jane. What a beautiful child. Shame her mother put her ego before her own child's welfare.

I'm not sure, though, if you could prosecute her or not on this. I will be watching for more news on this story, so please post if you see it.

gardenmom
12-09-2005, 01:49 PM
I say prosecute her. She was a neglectful mom in that she purposely withheld information that may have saved her daughters life. She said many conflicting things, such as she just felt her daughter had the sniffles, yet she was concerned enough to take her to the doctor three times for three opinions. It seems to me that she was thinking in the back of her mind that her daughter may have had aids. I think she was actually looking for that information, but when no one came out and said it without the knowledge of her aids, then she thought everything was normal. Too bad the last doctor had an agenda that was in her favor. Personally I wouldn't experiment on my kids, and that is what she did. I remember when I was pregnant with my first child I had to have an aids test. I took it willingly, since I had had many parntners before my husband. It was the scariest time in my life waiting for the results. It came back negative and I was elated. Never would I have put my child in danger on purpose, especially with kooky beliefs. With her being a nurse, she should have known better. She certainly should have known the difference between the sniffles, and something a little more serious, and I think the doctor's visits show she did know something wasn't right.

Oops, edited because I just noticed she wasn't a nurse. I saw the word nurse in the header and got confused.

Sherry67
12-09-2005, 02:04 PM
"Why would I risk the stigma, the medical label, the toxic drugs? It didn't make any sense to me at all to subject her to that. It's my job as a parent to protect my children, and do everything I can to ensure they lead a long, healthy, happy, productive life," Maggiore said.


:doh: :doh: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Huh???? What????

they don't make people more stupid than this

SadieMae
12-09-2005, 02:58 PM
Honestly, when I read the title of this thread my mouth dropped!! How could this woman NOT test her child? How could she even THINK breastfeading her baby would not pass the virus? This woman is not stupid...she's criminal. There have been cases of prosection of HIV+ people passing the virus to others, and this woman needs to be prosecuted. The amxycillin may have played a role in this child'd death due to her weakened immune system from the HIV virus. It's not the doctors fault, he could only work with the information the mother gave. One of mine was allergic to it, but it just gave him a rash and diahrearra.

southerngirl
12-09-2005, 03:08 PM
Here is a website devoted to Eliza Jane; it will tug at your heartstrings. Such a beautiful child! Too bad she was born to a stupid mother. It constantly amazes me how deep denial can be. This mother owned a $15 milllion dollar business. She is articulate and seemingly bright in all other areas. Eliza Jane's death was so preventable. If the mother had taken AZT during pregnancy the risk of transmitting HIV to her child could have been reduced from 25% to 2%. Never should she have breastfed. She should have had her children tested and treated with antivirals if they tested positive. Now she is in denial of the autopsy results. An independent medical authority has agreed the child died of AIDS. The mother can't accept this because then she would have to see that her poor judgement and denial directly caused her daughter's death. Friends and family (from California, of course) are feeding the mom New Age bull that Eliza Jane's spirit wanted to "return home" and that it was her destiny to die when she did and that no one could have prevented this. UGH!!!


No offense to Californians. Just that many are liberal and have ideas that stray far from the mainstream.....

http://www.ejlovetour.com/

southerngirl
12-09-2005, 03:20 PM
Here is another link if you're interested in following this case. It is Eliza Jane's mother's search for "justice."

http://justiceforej.com/

Excuse me while I go throw up.

KatherineQ
12-09-2005, 03:24 PM
The risk of passing HIV through breastmilk to a child born healthy, is minimal. HIV isn't passed in breastmilk, although there could be bleeding from a cut/cracked nipple.

It's probably most likely this child was born carrying HIV, in which case, her death wasn't preventable. To say that had they just diagnosed her, it would have saved her . . . is wrong.

Why a woman infected with the HIV virus would knowingly get pregnant is . . . kind of baffling to me, especially one who is as caring as this woman seems to be.

Prayers for a cure.

southerngirl
12-09-2005, 03:30 PM
The risk of passing HIV through breastmilk to a child born healthy, is minimal. HIV isn't passed in breastmilk, although there could be bleeding from a cut/cracked nipple.

It's probably most likely this child was born carrying HIV, in which case, her death wasn't preventable. To say that had they just diagnosed her, it would have saved her . . . is wrong.

Why a woman infected with the HIV virus would knowingly get pregnant is . . . kind of baffling to me, especially one who is as caring as this woman seems to be.

Prayers for a cure.
I have to disagree, KatherineQ. As I said in my post above, this mom should have taken AZT while pregnant and delivering; the risk to her child could have been reduced from 25% to 2%. So yes, the HIV transmission was probably preventable.

It is recommended that HIV positive women not breastfeed. HIV IS found in breastmilk and CAN be transmitted via breastfeeding. It is found in body fluids, and breastmilk is a body fluid. I will research the odds of transmitting HIV through breastfeeding and post here.

This mother, although seemingly loving and gentle, killed her daughter through denial. IMHO.

2luvmy
12-09-2005, 03:36 PM
I agree Southern Girl. I am taking a class right now and one of the chapters is on HIV/AID. Breastmilk is considered a bodily fluid through which the virus can be transmitted. The chapter also speaks highly about taking AZT to drastically reduce the possibility of transmission from mother to unborn child.

This same topic was also on an episode of ER last week I think.

southerngirl
12-09-2005, 03:36 PM
Here is what I found:

http://www.lalecheleague.org/ba/Feb05.html

http://www.medela.com/newfiles/faq/HIV_bfdg.html

There is 4% risk per 6 months of breastfeeding for HIV transmission through breastfeeding. It depends on many things, such as viral load, length of breastfeeding (Maggiore was breastfeeding Eliza Jane as a toddler in one pic), etc.

A loving mother would do EVERTHING possible to reduce/eliminate any risk....

KatherineQ
12-09-2005, 03:39 PM
The article above states the increased risk is 15% for breastfeeding.

I went to an interesting WHO discussion about AIDS in Africa, and childbirth risks, compared to the US. That was 5 years ago so maybe science has changed.

I think what is becoming clear is that there is more than just the HIV virus that causes people to become ill. That is, some people can carry the virus indefinitely and remain healthy, and some people begin slowly dying right after contracting the virus.

There have been cases of babies born in the US who test positive for the virus (by that, obviously, I mean test positive for the antibodies) and then when retested at 6 months, don't have the virus. Wow. That's a piece of the puzzle.

I think it's arguable that this baby was born with the HIV virus, and the mother's breast milk passed on infection deterrent that kept this sweet child healthy for so long. Time, and science, will tell.

The mother has something in her body that is protecting her from the effects of the virus. It seems quite possible that her breastmilk also contained something that helped her daughter ward off the affects.
At any rate, I still believe that a woman who knows she has the HIV virus, and purposely gets pregnant is morally wrong.

southerngirl
12-09-2005, 03:44 PM
At any rate, I still believe that a woman who knows she has the HIV virus, and purposely gets pregnant is morally wrong.
On this we can agree. It is one more example of Maggiore's denial and self-centeredness that caused the suffering and death of her child.

captain exposition
12-09-2005, 04:57 PM
No offense to Californians. Just that many are liberal and have ideas that stray far from the mainstream.....


Hi there! I'm from California and consider myself to be liberal as do many of my friends and family. However, most people out here are super cautious about HIV and AIDS, and we are exposed to information regarding prevention and treatment at a fairly young age and consistently throughout life. This lady and the people who share her beliefs are not reflections of "liberals" or "Californians" at all. There are many "conservative" people from the midwest, south, etc that hold beliefs that at best can be seen as wacky (and at worst dangerous). This lady has a wacky belief, and her poor daughter payed the price for her denial regarding her own disease. Having spent my entire life in southern California I can honestly say I have NEVER heard anyone else claim that AIDS is not caused by HIV etc.

Just wanted to clear up what could be a misunderstanding. :D

Jeana (DP)
12-09-2005, 05:14 PM
"Why would I risk the stigma, the medical label, the toxic drugs? It didn't make any sense to me at all to subject her to that. It's my job as a parent to protect my children, and do everything I can to ensure they lead a long, healthy, happy, productive life," Maggiore said.


:doh: :doh: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Huh???? What????

they don't make people more stupid than this


Sure! I can see that! Makes perfect sense to me. Don't risk the "stigma" of having a child labeled with that disease, but now be stimatized by being a child murderer. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

southerngirl
12-09-2005, 05:36 PM
And Maggiore also stated this:

"Why our child so appreciated, so held, so carefully nurtured and not one ignored, abused or abandoned?" she wrote. "How come what we offered was not enough to keep her here when children with far less impatient distracted parents, a small apartment on a busy street, extended day care, Oscar Mayer Lunchables will happily stay?"

DUH!!!!!:doh: Maybe impatient, distracted parents who live in small apartments and send their children to daycare with Lunchables DON'T KNOWINGLY EXPOSE THEIR CHILDREN TO HIV!!!!

Sorry. Didn't mean to yell. I just can't get over this mother who considers herself such a loving, protective mother. Nothing could be further from the truth....

captain exposition
12-09-2005, 05:55 PM
And Maggiore also stated this:

"Why our child so appreciated, so held, so carefully nurtured and not one ignored, abused or abandoned?" she wrote. "How come what we offered was not enough to keep her here when children with far less impatient distracted parents, a small apartment on a busy street, extended day care, Oscar Mayer Lunchables will happily stay?"

DUH!!!!!:doh: Maybe impatient, distracted parents who live in small apartments and send their children to daycare with Lunchables DON'T KNOWINGLY EXPOSE THEIR CHILDREN TO HIV!!!!

Sorry. Didn't mean to yell. I just can't get over this mother who considers herself such a loving, protective mother. Nothing could be further from the truth....
It sounds like she thinks that rich kids don't get sick and die. Sickness and death only happen to poor people... duh :mad:

cappuccina
12-09-2005, 09:41 PM
...maybe, just maybe, some of these parents who live in small apartments and can only afford to send a luncheable in a brown bag for their kids' lunch are actually RESPONSIBLE adults doing the best they can with very little, but getting their kids PROPER ****ING MEDICAL CARE TO THE EXTENT THEY CAN, AND at the very least, NOT EXPOSING THEM TO DEADLY DISEASES/CONDITIONS...This woman and her husband should go to jail for child abuse and neglect AT THE VERY LEAST...MURDER charges would make more sense...Gawd, the arrogance of this woman is.....just unbelievable...

southerngirl
12-09-2005, 09:58 PM
...maybe, just maybe, some of these parents who live in small apartments and can only afford to send a luncheable in a brown bag for their kids' lunch are actually RESPONSIBLE adults doing the best they can with very little, but getting their kids PROPER ****ING MEDICAL CARE TO THE EXTENT THEY CAN, AND at the very least, NOT EXPOSING THEM TO DEADLY DISEASES/CONDITIONS...This woman and her husband should go to jail for child abuse and neglect AT THE VERY LEAST...MURDER charges would make more sense...Gawd, the arrogance of this woman is.....just unbelievable...I so agree with your post.....This woman's actions were no different than holding a gun to her child's head and pulling the trigger.

Amraann
12-09-2005, 10:07 PM
Ok Reading the quote above here is what I think .....


It was like she is saying sooo many parents are so much more neglectiful so her neglect is minimized...

Dumn A$$ B

Her neglect despite possibly being a loving parent who fed her child and kept her clean is just as equal to the neglect of some crack whore who leaves her child alone for days in a filthy house without food...

If they suffer in ANY WAY or even worse die ... it is equal neglect..
It is neglect when parents refuses medical treatment due to religion and a child suffers and dies...

If your child suffers YOU DO ANYTHING to stop it.. I do not care what one believes faith wise.... YOU do anything to stop it..
If you do not then your neglectful. This was not some well informed medical issue on her part ... Only her flakeycaked friends agreed with her.
Pretty much the medical world agreed you take a certain drug while pregnant to avoid the HIV for the baby and YOU DON:"T breastfeed.
If any % exists you don't do it. You don't roll the dice with the life of your child. Unless the dice is an unavoidable roll.
A child like my nephew with a heart problem. You look at the medical history and decide if what will help him could potentially make him worse and weigh those options.
Personally I think if your HIV you should not have children.
Why would you ever want to (with any chance) impose that on some child??
Your not giving some gift to the world your doing it for your own selffish need.

southerngirl
12-09-2005, 10:11 PM
Hi there! I'm from California and consider myself to be liberal as do many of my friends and family. However, most people out here are super cautious about HIV and AIDS, and we are exposed to information regarding prevention and treatment at a fairly young age and consistently throughout life. This lady and the people who share her beliefs are not reflections of "liberals" or "Californians" at all. There are many "conservative" people from the midwest, south, etc that hold beliefs that at best can be seen as wacky (and at worst dangerous). This lady has a wacky belief, and her poor daughter payed the price for her denial regarding her own disease. Having spent my entire life in southern California I can honestly say I have NEVER heard anyone else claim that AIDS is not caused by HIV etc.

Just wanted to clear up what could be a misunderstanding. :DHi captain exposition. Didn't mean to malign anyone from California. You are right, there are people with wacky ideas just about everywhere. And I'm sure most Californians do not have bizarre and radical beliefs like Maggiore, her friends, and associates.

T'sNana
12-09-2005, 10:16 PM
I couldn't find if this was addressed regarding this, but did she deliver the baby by C-section? From what I understand, that's a MUST with an HIV mom.

southerngirl
12-09-2005, 10:31 PM
I couldn't find if this was addressed regarding this, but did she deliver the baby by C-section? From what I understand, that's a MUST with an HIV mom.

Nope. She delivered both children at home with a midwife, her son in an inflatable pool in her living room. She did not want AZT forced upon her in a hospital setting, she said.

SadieMae
12-09-2005, 10:43 PM
Ok Reading the quote above here is what I think .....


It was like she is saying sooo many parents are so much more neglectiful so her neglect is minimized...

Dumn A$$ B

Her neglect despite possibly being a loving parent who fed her child and kept her clean is just as equal to the neglect of some crack whore who leaves her child alone for days in a filthy house without food...

If they suffer in ANY WAY or even worse die ... it is equal neglect..
It is neglect when parents refuses medical treatment due to religion and a child suffers and dies...

If your child suffers YOU DO ANYTHING to stop it.. I do not care what one believes faith wise.... YOU do anything to stop it..
If you do not then your neglectful. This was not some well informed medical issue on her part ... Only her flakeycaked friends agreed with her.
Pretty much the medical world agreed you take a certain drug while pregnant to avoid the HIV for the baby and YOU DON:"T breastfeed.
If any % exists you don't do it. You don't roll the dice with the life of your child. Unless the dice is an unavoidable roll.
A child like my nephew with a heart problem. You look at the medical history and decide if what will help him could potentially make him worse and weigh those options.
Personally I think if your HIV you should not have children.
Why would you ever want to (with any chance) impose that on some child??
Your not giving some gift to the world your doing it for your own selffish need.A big AMEN to that!!!

itsreenw
12-09-2005, 11:34 PM
Here is a website devoted to Eliza Jane; it will tug at your heartstrings. Such a beautiful child! Too bad she was born to a stupid mother. It constantly amazes me how deep denial can be. This mother owned a $15 milllion dollar business. She is articulate and seemingly bright in all other areas. Eliza Jane's death was so preventable. If the mother had taken AZT during pregnancy the risk of transmitting HIV to her child could have been reduced from 25% to 2%. Never should she have breastfed. She should have had her children tested and treated with antivirals if they tested positive. Now she is in denial of the autopsy results. An independent medical authority has agreed the child died of AIDS. The mother can't accept this because then she would have to see that her poor judgement and denial directly caused her daughter's death. Friends and family (from California, of course) are feeding the mom New Age bull that Eliza Jane's spirit wanted to "return home" and that it was her destiny to die when she did and that no one could have prevented this. UGH!!!


No offense to Californians. Just that many are liberal and have ideas that stray far from the mainstream.....

http://www.ejlovetour.com/
Southerngirl,
I am a California girl and while I don't take offense to the "California, of course" comment, I do want to enlighten you to the fact that while CA is a very diverse state (fortunately), you are dead wrong to assume or insinuate that even the most liberal Californians would NOT condone this idiot "murdering" her baby.

We are more accepting of interracial relationships, same sex/transgender couples, brightly colored hair on our teens, boob jobs, various religions, etc...(ya know, things that aren't affecting anybody and shouldn't be concerning others).

Californians, as a majority, despise anybody that hurt/kill babies. Sadly, there are nutcases like this in every state in the USA, please don't slander CA like that. I believe it said her friends and family support her, not the whole state.

narlacat
12-10-2005, 12:23 AM
Wow, what a crazy ***** and she looks so normal too!
I wonder how she got HIV in the first place, a blood tranfusion? the article didn't say...or if it did I missed it :crazy:

southerngirl
12-10-2005, 01:06 AM
Wow, what a crazy ***** and she looks so normal too!
I wonder how she got HIV in the first place, a blood tranfusion? the article didn't say...or if it did I missed it :crazy:
She says she doesn't know, but denies that HIV causes AIDS. She is part of the AIDS dissident movement.

She is founder of Alive and Well, an AIDS dissident group. http://www.aliveandwell.org/

narlacat
12-10-2005, 05:16 AM
How does she mean she doesn't know??
Surely she knows if she had a blood transfusion or had unprotected sex or shared a needle.....

cappuccina
12-10-2005, 04:31 PM
...the crazier I get! Why haven't these ****ers been arrested? Why are they being sheltered and not having to take consequences for what they did? From what I've been reading, this mother did not get vaccinations for Eliza Jane, nor did she seek treatment for any childhood illnesses, not did she have her daughter screend for anything, including AIDS. She has other kids in the home....why is she being protected? I don't get it??

lynie
12-10-2005, 09:24 PM
I read about this a long time ago and have found the whole situation very disturbing!!

To me these kind of folks are just not taking responsibility for what they have done in their lives, and the repurcussions thereof. Stupid. Just stupid and selfish...

And....can't keep my mouth shut....California and the people that live there are not all liberal new age hippies....and if they are there isn't anything wrong with it! My goodness, there have been stories about backword folks from the Ozarks and other southern areas that have made my hair curl! We each have our share of whackos no matter where we are from!

BTW....the governor of CA is a republican....

Bobbisangel
12-11-2005, 08:46 PM
I can't understand why nothing is being done about this woman. Because she is so determined that she is right about HIV/AIDS she subjected her little girl to the virus and she lost. I wonder if she ever had her son tested for HIV?

She has the nerve to ask "why her child." I would ask her "why not your child." Just because she has money and can give her children all of the benefits, etc, etc..."why not her child?" Does she think that other parents who have lost their children were more deserving to lose them then her? She needs to come down off her cloud and get a grip. Many loving parents have lost their little children through no fault of their own....she exposed that little girl to HIV even before her birth. What kind of a mother does that make her! Her attitude is so arrogant. She has the nerve to even compare her parenting to any other parents who have lost their little children. That makes me so angry.

KatherineQ
12-11-2005, 08:50 PM
How does she mean she doesn't know??
Surely she knows if she had a blood transfusion or had unprotected sex or shared a needle.....

She doesn't know, Narlacat. There are people who don't know how they got AIDS, and if someone has engaged in any risky behavior, it's automatically assumed that's how they got it.

Remember that dentist who purposely gave AIDS to several patients? If he hadn't been caught, and his victims notified, the victims would never have known how they got it, either.

She could have gotten it through clippers at a hair salon, dirty dental instruments, a lot of places.

Amraann
12-11-2005, 10:32 PM
She knew she had aids ...

Anything beyond that if it affected her child means little.

She knew she had it , she knew she had a baby , she knew it was a risk...

deanws
12-12-2005, 03:04 AM
I couldn't find if this was addressed regarding this, but did she deliver the baby by C-section? From what I understand, that's a MUST with an HIV mom.How the heck is her husband still sleeping with her without protection? He is going to get it also. What fools.:mad:

Casshew
12-12-2005, 05:54 AM
If you read Paul Michael Glaser & Elizabeth Glaser's story, it is incredible that 20years later people are so ignorant to the FACTS.

BillyGoatGruff
12-12-2005, 11:35 AM
There was an episode of ER a couple of weeks ago based on this story, right down to the oblivious/in-denial/conspiracy-theorist HIV+ mother.

IslandGirl
12-12-2005, 04:19 PM
Nope. She delivered both children at home with a midwife, her son in an inflatable pool in her living room. She did not want AZT forced upon her in a hospital setting, she said.

How 70's and "grow your own" and geodesic dome and overalls with no makeup! The fact that this woman is into the holistic scene to the exclusion and denial of fact shows a certain grave instabilty about her which should make the authorities question her ability to parent the rest of her family effectively. Most of the frank physical abuse cases that enter our ER's here seem to have a large "I don't know" component to the mother's story. It's so usual that the bell went off in my head about this woman's involvement while reading about it. It may be that she craves the attention (Muenchausen-sic?), and I surely wouldn't put it past her to be in the "better than you are because I give my kids tortula yeast and yogurt instead of their innoculations" set of misinformed parents who look at scientifically unsound "research", seek it out, and cite it without checking their sources.

If lack of knowledge is to be the death of some, then the perpetuation of false knowledge is a cohost to their Grim Reaper show.

BillyGoatGruff
12-12-2005, 05:04 PM
How 70's and "grow your own" and geodesic dome and overalls with no makeup! The fact that this woman is into the holistic scene to the exclusion and denial of fact shows a certain grave instabilty about her which should make the authorities question her ability to parent the rest of her family effectively. Most of the frank physical abuse cases that enter our ER's here seem to have a large "I don't know" component to the mother's story. It's so usual that the bell went off in my head about this woman's involvement while reading about it. It may be that she craves the attention (Muenchausen-sic?), and I surely wouldn't put it past her to be in the "better than you are because I give my kids tortula yeast and yogurt instead of their innoculations" set of misinformed parents who look at scientifically unsound "research", seek it out, and cite it without checking their sources.

If lack of knowledge is to be the death of some, then the perpetuation of false knowledge is a cohost to their Grim Reaper show.
Never underestimate the power of self-delusion.

CyberLaw
12-12-2005, 05:43 PM
I thought I read in another article, that she had an Italian boyfriend that she caught HIV from. He apparently has since died of (drum roll please) AIDS.

But of course, lie and deny is the mantra of this so called "mother".

I do feel that this women is unfit, but......what the law thinks and what we all think if another story.

vanillasky
12-13-2005, 02:15 AM
I recorded this episode and watched it tonight - I wanted to literally reach through the TV and slap the hell out of that stupid, stupid woman. :furious:

Rayemonde
01-21-2016, 10:45 PM
December 2008 - Christine Maggiore dies of pneumonia, aged 52:


Until the end, Christine Maggiore remained defiant.

On national television and in a blistering book, she denounced research showing that HIV causes AIDS. She refused to take medications to treat her own virus. She gave birth to two children and breast-fed them, denying any risk to their health. And when her 3-year-old child, Eliza Jane, died of what the coroner determined to be AIDS-related pneumonia, she protested the findings and sued the county.

On Saturday, Maggiore died at her Van Nuys home, leaving a husband, a son and many unanswered questions. She was 52...

Her supporters expressed shock Monday over her death but were highly skeptical that it was caused by AIDS...

After Eliza Jane's death, Los Angeles police investigated whether Maggiore and Scovill were negligent in not testing the girl for HIV. In 2006, the Los Angeles County district attorney's office decided not to file criminal charges against Maggiore, saying that it would have been difficult to prove criminal negligence because Maggiore had sought medical advice.


http://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-christine-maggiore30-2008dec30-story.html

Rayemonde
01-21-2016, 10:56 PM
With Maggiore's death on 27 December, 2008, a chapter in the history of Aids denial came to an end. We do not know for certain what she died of, but we do know she had been suffering from pneumonia for at least six months prior to her death. Experts agree that the most likely explanation is that the pneumonia was Aids-related. This has not been confirmed by a coroner's report.


http://m.news24.com/health24/Medical/HIV-AIDS/The-South-African-culture/Aids-denialists-mystery-death-20120721

Rayemonde
01-21-2016, 10:58 PM
ON 27 December 2008, a well-heeled 52-year-old woman died in a Los Angeles hospital. Her death certificate describes a body riddled with opportunistic infections typical of the late stages of AIDS. Christine Maggiore had tested HIV positive 16 years earlier, but she had shunned ART, the antiretroviral therapy that stops HIV replicating and prevents AIDS.

This was not the first time a death in Maggiore’s family had made headlines: three years earlier her 3-year-old daughter Eliza Jane had died. The autopsy described a chronically ill little girl who was underweight, under-height, and had encephalitis and pneumonia – all AIDS-related. When pregnant, Maggiore had again rejected ART and she had breastfed Eliza Jane, another way of transmitting the virus.


https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20227131-500-aids-denial-a-lethal-delusion/

Rayemonde
01-21-2016, 11:04 PM
87799

Rayemonde
01-21-2016, 11:07 PM
March 2009:


Los Angeles County has reached a $15,000 legal settlement with the husband of Christine Maggiore, the late activist who rejected medical opinions that HIV causes AIDS.

Maggiore and her husband, Robin Scovill, sued the county two years ago for allegedly violating their late 3-year-old daughter's civil rights by releasing an autopsy report that listed her cause of death as AIDS-related pneumonia.


http://articles.latimes.com/2009/mar/06/local/me-briefs6