Mr.X

[Rupert]

Well, I saw the Tracy Mills documentary Sunday night on Fact & Movie. I was astounded, if in fact it presents the truth. I looked up the previous thread and think this should be revived.

1. Helgoth was obviously murdered. The crime photo shows his gun to the right while the shot was from the left and the shot was through a pillow used as a silencer.

2. In the photo was a stun gun and hi-tech boots with the same mud markings stated as in the Ramsey cellar.

3. A couple of interviews, not just with Kenady, stated that Helgoth and his pal were into Ninja and stalked. There were a number of break-ins near the Ramseys with little taken and later one where the intruder wore dark clothing like a Ninja. The Ransom Note led everyone to think that it must be someone close to the family, if not within the family. But if you're a Ninja and visited that home many times, then you could have learned alot about the family, and wrote that note. That would explain alot of things.

Let's see, Ninja, Japanese, German, Nazi, Nietzche, Leopold & Loeb.

Regardless of JonBenet, who murdered Helgoth? Was it Mr.X? Or was it another Mr.Y? Did they really check out Mr.X? Where there's smoke, there's fire.

[Becba]

This has never sat right with me. Is it a frame? Is it intentional to have connection to the JonBenet case? Is it accidental to have clues left connecting him to the murder?

If it was a frame up to cast blame, someone had to be hired to do it.

If it was intentional to have these clues left than it was the killer of JonBenet that killed him.

If it was accidental, it was someone in on the murder that killed him and wanted to shut him up.

[BlueCrab]

This has never sat right with me. Is it a frame? Is it intentional to have connection to the JonBenet case? Is it accidental to have clues left connecting him to the murder?

If it was a frame up to cast blame, someone had to be hired to do it.

If it was intentional to have these clues left than it was the killer of JonBenet that killed him.

If it was accidental, it was someone in on the murder that killed him and wanted to shut him up.


Becba,

Neither Helgoth, nor Mr. X, nor anyone else who is not a Ramsey family member killed JonBenet. The Ramseys wouldn't be lying, obfuscating, refusing to cooperate with the investigation and covering up, to protect anyone but a Ramsey.

BlueCrab

[Rupert]

This has never sat right with me. Is it a frame? Is it intentional to have connection to the JonBenet case? Is it accidental to have clues left connecting him to the murder?

If it was a frame up to cast blame, someone had to be hired to do it.

If it was intentional to have these clues left than it was the killer of JonBenet that killed him.

If it was accidental, it was someone in on the murder that killed him and wanted to shut him up.
This never sat right with me too. However, the photo of Helgoth with the stun gun and hi-tech boots on the documentary does not seem to look like a frame up. Those articles seem to be incidental in the photo.

Also, if it was an intruder killer, he might not have worried about leaving the stun gun and hi-tech boots because I don't think the stun gun and hi-tech boots were public knowledge then. If they were public knowlwdge or known by certain insiders, then those coincidences would really bother me.

[narlacat]

There was a poster on here not so long back, I forget his name but you will find his posts if you go back through the threads...he claimed to live in Boulder and to have known Helgoth. They weren't close friends but moved in the same circles.
He said he did commit suicide and was heart broken over some girl who had broken up with him on Valetines Day....or something like that.
He was talking about that show also saying it contained alot of untruths....
Sorry I cant remember properly but if you look you will find his posts.

[Nehemiah]

There was a poster on here not so long back, I forget his name but you will find his posts if you go back through the threads...he claimed to live in Boulder and to have known Helgoth. They weren't close friends but moved in the same circles.
He said he did commit suicide and was heart broken over some girl who had broken up with him on Valetines Day....or something like that.
He was talking about that show also saying it contained alot of untruths....
Sorry I cant remember properly but if you look you will find his posts.

This person posted here? Can you refresh my memory?

Everyone may want to check out these previous threads, as they contain some very interesting info.

http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10219&highlight=Gigax

http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9535&highlight=Gigax

[Jayelles]

His name was Michael Cook. For some reason, he seems to have gotten himself banned!

[Rupert]

JonBenet died December 26, 1996.
Helgoth died near Valentines Day February 14, 1997 (only 1 1/2 months later).
Police photo of Helgoth indicates Hi-tech boots and stun gun.

Surely the Hi-tech boot prints and stun gun were not public knowledge yet. The stun gun thing was not even raised internally until Lou Smit came on the scene. So, I don't think the stun gun and Hi-tech boots were a plant by anyone. Please correct me if I am wrong with the timeline.

Regardless of whether or not Helgoth's death was a suicide or how much you believe Tracy's documentary was a "crock", the photo of Helgoth which includes two coincidental items related to the JonBenet case cannot be ignored.

I understand that the BPD ruled the Helgoth death as suicide. The photo which shows the gun lying to his right while he was shot through a pillow from the left suggests to me otherwise.

[BlueCrab]

JonBenet died December 26, 1996.
Helgoth died near Valentines Day February 14, 1997 (only 1 1/2 months later).
Police photo of Helgoth indicates Hi-tech boots and stun gun.

Surely the Hi-tech boot prints and stun gun were not public knowledge yet. The stun gun thing was not even raised internally until Lou Smit came on the scene. So, I don't think the stun gun and Hi-tech boots were a plant by anyone. Please correct me if I am wrong with the timeline.

Regardless of whether or not Helgoth's death was a suicide or how much you believe Tracy's documentary was a "crock", the photo of Helgoth which includes two coincidental items related to the JonBenet case cannot be ignored.

I understand that the BPD ruled the Helgoth death as suicide. The photo which shows the gun lying to his right while he was shot through a pillow from the left suggests to me otherwise.



Rupert,

DNA taken from Helgoth's Hi-Tec boots did not match the foreign male DNA taken from JonBenet.

[Camper]

[QUOTED FROM NEHEMIAHS LINK] #1 (http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=287347&postcount=1)
http://websleuths.com/forums/images/statusicon/post_old.gif 07-20-2004, 04:09 PM
Tricia (http://websleuths.com/forums/member.php?u=794) http://websleuths.com/forums/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif vbmenu_register("postmenu_287347", true);
Administrator
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,481


Just Spoke with Mr. Gigax. He is 100 percent Innocent.
I just got off the phone with Mr. Gigax. He asked me to convey to you that he is absolutely innocent of this crime. He has positive proof that he left Boulder in Sept. of 1996 and he has a ton of proof that on the night in question he was with a houseful of people.

Mr. Gigax spoke with Ramsey D.A. investigator Tom Bennett. Bennett told Mr. Gigax that he is NOT a suspect and never WAS A SUSPECT.

I asked Mr. Gigax directly if he was angry with FFJ for posting the document that Tracey showed on camera therefore posting his name. He said at first he was but he is over it now. He is angry with Tracey.

Mr. Gigax is also very angry at the person who killed JonBenet Ramsey. He said, " I want to see that bastard fry."

Mr. Gigax admitted he is not a choir boy. I told him we are not talking about his past. His past does not enter into this situation. We are talking about the Ramsey case which he knows nothing about.

In the coming weeks we should have more on this story. Hopefully Tracey will be exposed to the world as the liar he is. He needs to be stopped.

I would encourage all members of WS to post their thoughts and support of Mr. Gigax here. I think it would be appropriate to let him knowm, that the world knows, he had nothing to do with the death of JonBenet Ramsey.

Tricia
__________________
tgrif@xmission.com
Snail Mail:
Websleuths C/O Tricia Griffith
P.O. Box 682453
Park City UT
84068
[END OF QUOTE FROM NEHEMIAHS LINK]

===============================

===============================[b]This should settle 'today's wonderment of posters. [b]

IF IF all of this wonderment were factual then:

1. Would Lou Smit just give up on such information IF IF it were true, I don't think so. Lou earned his title of FOX.

2. WHO wrote the ransom note, and just how literate were all of those people in the Tracy documentary. Would any of them have known French, and the accent mark, er even what an attache case was? I would have suspected that the writer of the ransom note would have requested the money be delivered in a plastic grocery sack or a brown paper bag. Does $118,000.00 divide evenly amongst HOW many of em in their 'faction'.
Maybe Tracy is still trying to figure out how many of em were involved, and how the money would have been divided IF they had gotten any, instead of ZIP $$.

3. There should have been handwriting samples aplenty to compare with the note, er maybe they did not know how to write with a pen. Somehow I think IF the group involved did it, they would have had enough folks to cut out letters from magazines and made the ransom note short and sweet and rather
'traditional', as ransom notes go.

4. In the movie Ransom as I recall there was NO NOTE, it was a phone call!

5. OH, that there had been a phone call when JonBenet was TAKEN out of the house, oops wait a minute she was NOT taken out of the house.


.

[Rupert]

Rupert,

DNA taken from Helgoth's Hi-Tec boots did not match the foreign male DNA taken from JonBenet.
From his boots? Whatever. I know Helgoth's DNA was no match so IF Helgoth was involved, he must have had an accomplice with the right DNA. The accomplice thing fits with the pillow.

Furthermore the Ninja thing fits totally with the RN.

I even came across an SBtC while surfing Ninja, but I think it was later than 1996.

[Jayelles]

From his boots? Whatever. I know Helgoth's DNA was no match so IF Helgoth was involved, he must have had an accomplice with the right DNA. The accomplice thing fits with the pillow.

Furthermore the Ninja thing fits totally with the RN.

I even came across an SBtC while surfing Ninja, but I think it was later than 1996.
There is no evidence to connect Michael Helgoth to the Ramsey crime scene. Hi-Tec boots were common enough. The stungun found beside Helgoth's body was not the kind which Smit thought had been used on Jonbenet.

There is no conclusive proof that a stungun was used on Jonbenet. The leading expert on stunguns says he does not believe a stungun was used on JonBenet. The only way that it can be proved that a stungun was used is to exhume her body and test the tissue.

[Camper]

they ever do exhume her body, check that scarf that JR 'tucked' around her in the casket and see if any of the fibres found on her body match that.

This would be the scarf that JonBenet had NEVER seen. Hmmm.

Wonder where the red and black scarf actually disappeared to that had 'its' picture taken on the wet bar accidentally. I am right on the wet bar ? er, correct me if it was in a different location.


.

[sissi]

From his boots? Whatever. I know Helgoth's DNA was no match so IF Helgoth was involved, he must have had an accomplice with the right DNA. The accomplice thing fits with the pillow.

Furthermore the Ninja thing fits totally with the RN.

I even came across an SBtC while surfing Ninja, but I think it was later than 1996.

Yep, good sleuthing logic. Isn't that what we are here for, to logically "use" the evidence available in developing possible scenarios?

[sissi]

Boulder should have hired Janet McReynolds to solve this crime. In her letter, if memory serves, she outlined an underlying political, sociopathic "feel" she "got" described in her.. "she deserved to die".
118,000 (as reported by the Atlanta Constitution)children were at risk to die in Iraq because of the sanctions in place.
John Ramsey worked for lockhead a company that supplied arms.
Small factions were alive and well in Boulder, AIM and others,from the VERY little I understood from the rantings of Churchill,suggesting that factions weren't an oddity in that college community.
Would a politically motivated real faction kill this child? I "sorta" doubt it, however, would a fringe sociopath with his own intent use the political climate as the "REASON" she "had to die",leaving him blameless . Isn't this how sociopaths work? Do they not build the blame on something/someone else ,always leaving them guilt free.

[BlueCrab]

The only way that it can be proved that a stungun was used is to exhume her body and test the tissue.


Jayelles,

It's probably too late to exhume the body. I don't think anything would be left to examine except bones. Rule of thumb is that for average burials and average moisture conditions in the ground, putrefaction is complete after 5 years for a child and after 10 years for an adult. JonBenet's been dead for almost 9 years.

[Eagle1]

Good thinking, imo, very interesting about the Ninja gang. I don't know anything about them. We don't know if this "Michael Cook" who knew Helgoth slightly is an okay guy or not, and we no longer have anyone at WS who lives in Boulder, correct?

Whoever shot Helgoth certainly could have been an accomplice, or could have been someone Helgoth didn't even know, who was nervous about the threatening announcement police had just made and needed a scapegoat.

The breakup with the girl probably had nothing to do with it, and We don't even know if it's true. Did this "Michael Cook" hear it from someone else? You suppose that could have been Helgoth's killer? But killing him would have been for some reason of his own. Some guess that Kenady pal also could have done it. Helgoth didn't seem to have very loyal friends. We're not basing anything on the coincidence that he had a certain kind of boots. There's plenty of other points to consider.

All kinds of people have speculated that a police announcement was supposed to have made Helgoth nervous enough to kill himself, but like you said, he certainly appeared to have been suicided. By someone or ones who watched for not-really-plausible alibi "reasons" for Helgoth to kill himself.

[Jayelles]

Jayelles,

It's probably too late to exhume the body. I don't think anything would be left to examine except bones. Rule of thumb is that for average burials and average moisture conditions in the ground, putrefaction is complete after 5 years for a child and after 10 years for an adult. JonBenet's been dead for almost 9 years.
Would that be the same for an embalmed body?

[Jayelles]

Michael Cook backed up previous claims that Helgoth had been depressed about the ending of a relationship and that it was no coincidence that he committed suicide on Valentine's Day.

There was NO trace evidence to put Michael Helgoth at the Ramsey scene.

The stungun was not the same kind of stungun suspected by Lou Smit.

The person who pointed the finger at Helgoth was Kenady - a convicted paedophile with little credibility who ALSO stole a $50,000 cheque and some artwork when he allegedly broke into the Helgoth home to obtain the Hi-Tec boots as "evidence".

Conspiracy theorists could rationalise a case against anyone IMO.

[BlueCrab]

Would that be the same for an embalmed body?


Jayelles,

Embalming only replaces the blood in the body. Everything else decays.

[Lacy Wood]

Suicide or accidental death while fooling around is most likely. A killer wouldn't use a pillow muffler and then fire into the lower left side...there would be a great chance of survival from a shot there...he would also most likely fire again to kill if he had a bad first shot. However, many suicides are accidents in the sense the plan was to survive and get sympathy or recognition of their "plight"...the "cry for help." I saw the scene described in a Ramseys-innocent treatment a while back, and suspect it is this type of incident. BTW, a shot to the side would not incapacitate immediately, and he could have put the gun down anywhere...and an intruder had no reason to leave the gun and possible evidence behind, including a victim who could very well survive.

[Jayelles]

Jayelles,

Embalming only replaces the blood in the body. Everything else decays.
I don't think that is correct BC. Formaldehyde is used in embalming and we know that body parts can be preserved for decades in formadehyde.

My daughter's friend is a med student and we were discussing this (ahem - blushes) at lunchtime today. The med students meet their cadaver pretty much straight away when they start their course and they have the cadaver for one year when it is returned to the family for burial. The cadaver is embalmed prior to use for dissection so that it will remain well preserved for the year.

A friend of our family left her body to medical science. I think it's a pretty good cause. However, I think if I was going to do it, I'd leave my body to medical research rather than medical science - having heard some tales of the students melarkying with the cadavers. OTOH, it might be pretty cool to know that when you died, you'd get to hang around with a bunch of daft students for a year afterwards....

[Jayelles]

Suicide or accidental death while fooling around is most likely. A killer wouldn't use a pillow muffler and then fire into the lower left side...there would be a great chance of survival from a shot there...he would also most likely fire again to kill if he had a bad first shot. However, many suicides are accidents in the sense the plan was to survive and get sympathy or recognition of their "plight"...the "cry for help." I saw the scene described in a Ramseys-innocent treatment a while back, and suspect it is this type of incident. BTW, a shot to the side would not incapacitate immediately, and he could have put the gun down anywhere...and an intruder had no reason to leave the gun and possible evidence behind, including a victim who could very well survive.
If he really wanted to die, maybe he muffled the shot so that no-one would come too quickly and maybe save him.

[BlueCrab]

I don't think that is correct BC. Formaldehyde is used in embalming and we know that body parts can be preserved for decades in formadehyde.



Jayelles,

Formaldehyde (actually a solution of formaldehyde and other chemicals) pumped into the ateries to replace the blood is the main process of embalming. However, formaldehyde is also pumped into the main body cavities such as the lungs, intestines, etc., to prevent gasses from forming due to decay. The rest of the body, such as the skin, is treated only cosmetically for purposes of viewing in the casket.

[tipper]

http://www.funerals.org/faq/embalm.htm (http://www.funerals.org/faq/embalm.htm)

Facts about Embalming

1. Embalming is rarely required by law. The Federal Trade Commission and many state regulators require that funeral directors inform consumers that embalming is not required except in certain special cases. Embalming is required when crossing state lines from Alabama, Alaska, and New Jersey. Three other states — Idaho, Kansas, and Minnesota — require embalming when a body is shipped by common carrier.2. Embalming provides no public health benefit, according to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Canadian health authorities. Hawaii and Ontario forbid embalming if the person died of certain contagious diseases. Many morticians have been taught, however, that embalming protects the public health, and they continue to perpetrate this myth.3. Embalming does not preserve the human body forever; it merely delays the inevitable and natural consequences of death. There is some variation in the rate of decomposition, depending on the strength of the chemicals and methods used, and the humidity and temperature of the final resting place.4. Ambient temperature has more affect on the decomposition process than the time elapsed after death, whether or not a body has been embalmed. In a sealed casket in above-ground entombment in a warm climate, a body will decompose very rapidly.5. Embalming is a physically invasive process in which special devices are implanted, and chemicals and techniques are used to give an appearance of restful repose. The normal waxy-white color of a dead body is replaced with a more life-like tone by the use of dyes in the embalming fluid.6. Embalming chemicals are highly toxic. Embalmers are required by OSHA to wear a respirator and full-body covering while embalming. Funeral home effluent, however, is not regulated, and waste is flushed into the common sewer system or septic tank.[...]

[Jayelles]

Jayelles,

Formaldehyde (actually a solution of formaldehyde and other chemicals) pumped into the ateries to replace the blood is the main process of embalming. However, formaldehyde is also pumped into the main body cavities such as the lungs, intestines, etc., to prevent gasses from forming due to decay. The rest of the body, such as the skin, is treated only cosmetically for purposes of viewing in the casket.
I guess the university cadavers are also refridgerated but they do have to stay good for a year whilst the students dissect them. I'm sure they aren't working on rotting corpses. That would be a serious health risk.

[Toltec]

How in the world would Helgoth know things about the Ramseys? "Use that good Southern common sense", etc...

Helgoth had nothing to do with the death of JonBenet.

[Nehemiah]

I don't think that is correct BC. Formaldehyde is used in embalming and we know that body parts can be preserved for decades in formadehyde.

My daughter's friend is a med student and we were discussing this (ahem - blushes) at lunchtime today. The med students meet their cadaver pretty much straight away when they start their course and they have the cadaver for one year when it is returned to the family for burial. The cadaver is embalmed prior to use for dissection so that it will remain well preserved for the year.

A friend of our family left her body to medical science. I think it's a pretty good cause. However, I think if I was going to do it, I'd leave my body to medical research rather than medical science - having heard some tales of the students melarkying with the cadavers. OTOH, it might be pretty cool to know that when you died, you'd get to hang around with a bunch of daft students for a year afterwards....

My oldest son is a med student and just finished the cadaver part last year. He said that none of their cadavers were embalmed. The blood was drained and they were preserved in a formaldehyde-type solution. Each time they worked on the cadavers, they had to spray them down with the solution. The cadavers stayed in fairly good shape. Most of these people were homeless, with no family identifying the bodies, and hence, their bodies were donated to the med school. (probably why they were never embalmed)

[Jayelles]

My oldest son is a med student and just finished the cadaver part last year. He said that none of their cadavers were embalmed. The blood was drained and they were preserved in a formaldehyde-type solution. Each time they worked on the cadavers, they had to spray them down with the solution. The cadavers stayed in fairly good shape. Most of these people were homeless, with no family identifying the bodies, and hence, their bodies were donated to the med school. (probably why they were never embalmed)
Oh MY! I don't think the European Court of Human Rights would allow that to happen here.... I don't think a body can be researched upon unless the person signed a consent form. Maybe I'm wrong.

Homeless people do get practiced upon at the Dentistry School and Foot Schools though. We have two schemes - NHS and Private. There is a terrible shortage of NHS dentists and chiropodists, but anyone can go to the Universities and get free treatment by supervised students for free.

I'm probably using the word "embalming" incorrectly. I used it to describe the process of draining the blood and replacing it with a formaldehyde solution. I know there's more involved in what undertakers do.

You must be very proud to have a son at Med School :-)

[Nehemiah]

Oh MY! I don't think the European Court of Human Rights would allow that to happen here.... I don't think a body can be researched upon unless the person signed a consent form. Maybe I'm wrong.

You must be very proud to have a son at Med School :-)

He said that they keep a cloth over the face so as not to have to look at it. That sounds very sad. One of the women cadavers was about my age, sadder still.

Yes, I'm proud. Thanks for bringing up the topic--it gave me an opportunity to boast. :D LOL

[Jayelles]

He said that they keep a cloth over the face so as not to have to look at it. That sounds very sad. One of the women cadavers was about my age, sadder still.

Yes, I'm proud. Thanks for bringing up the topic--it gave me an opportunity to boast. :D LOL
So you should be proud. I think that's great. It says a lot for you. It's very difficult to get into Med School here - only the creme de la creme de la creme make it and I think it takes good parenting to enable a young person to get the achievements and have the confidence to move forward in that direction.

[Camper]

Great postings, Nehemiah, Jayelles, BlueCrab.

Nehemiah, what a wonderful work your son is taking on. My nephew is a childrens oncology doctor, spent many years at St. Judes.

Hi to Toltec, I am leaning your way on this Mr. X.

Tipper, interesting information.

The seeming facts of Helgoth and friends, seems to be lacking any MAJOR connection to JonBenet in any way.

I Googled to see just how many exhumations occur in America in a given year or time frame, to no avail. Rare except in unusual mass killings etc.

What I suspect to be even more rare, with no substantiated proof would be, a deceased person being exhumed to prove that a 'stun gun' would have been used in some part in causing their death.

Here is a link that covers famous exhumations, and what happened to some of the exhumed 'famous persons' parts. Interesting reading! It calls up some legal ramifications involved as well.

http://medicine.plosjournals.org/perlserv/?request=get-document&doi=10.1371/journal.pmed.0020060


.

[capps]

Camper,

Interesting link!

[ziggy]

Regardless of whether he was involved in the Ramsey murder or not, (I think not for the record) it just bugs the crap out of me that his death was ruled a suicide after looking at the crime scene pics and thinking about the facts. Anyoe else? It just doesn't sit right...like other posters have said.

[Rupert]

Regardless of whether he was involved in the Ramsey murder or not, (I think not for the record) it just bugs the crap out of me that his death was ruled a suicide after looking at the crime scene pics and thinking about the facts. Anyoe else? It just doesn't sit right...like other posters have said.
I totally concur, it bugs me too. Also, like Toltec, I too do not see Helgoth likely referring to "southern common sense".

BUT, Helgoth's dna did not match anyway. So maybe there was someone else. Maybe that someone set Helgoth up, regardless IDI or RDI.

Oh well, maybe there were alot of hikers in hi-tech Boulder wearing the same boots and walking about with all kinds of stun guns. Sounds like support for the intruder scenario.

[Tricia]

There was no intruder. Patsy wrote the note. As to what happened? That we may never know.

[Tricia]

Well, I saw the Tracy Mills documentary Sunday night on Fact & Movie. I was astounded, if in fact it presents the truth. I looked up the previous thread and think this should be revived.

1. Helgoth was obviously murdered. The crime photo shows his gun to the right while the shot was from the left and the shot was through a pillow used as a silencer.

2. In the photo was a stun gun and hi-tech boots with the same mud markings stated as in the Ramsey cellar.

3. A couple of interviews, not just with Kenady, stated that Helgoth and his pal were into Ninja and stalked. There were a number of break-ins near the Ramseys with little taken and later one where the intruder wore dark clothing like a Ninja. The Ransom Note led everyone to think that it must be someone close to the family, if not within the family. But if you're a Ninja and visited that home many times, then you could have learned alot about the family, and wrote that note. That would explain alot of things.

Let's see, Ninja, Japanese, German, Nazi, Nietzche, Leopold & Loeb.

Regardless of JonBenet, who murdered Helgoth? Was it Mr.X? Or was it another Mr.Y? Did they really check out Mr.X? Where there's smoke, there's fire.

Rupert,

Please check out the information and how Michael Tracey was exposed for his totally fraudulant crock that you saw. Please read everything here.
http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=249

Thanks to several dedicated and honest people on this forum we were able to show just how much Michael Tracey lied.

I did hear through the grapevine that Mr. Tracey received a lot of heat for trying to frame an innocent man who was never a suspect.

Michael Tracey has all the honesty of a drunken used car salesman. He is a pig IMO.

[Rupert]

Rupert,

Please check out the information and how Michael Tracey was exposed for his totally fraudulant crock that you saw. Please read everything here.
http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=249


Thanks Tricia. I checked it out. In fact I had read much of it before I saw the "crockumentary". The Tracy thing sounded very compelling. Who knows?

All I know as a layman, is that if it was a suicide, he shot himself with his arm across his chest pointing the gun back through the pillow. Why would anyone do that? That is weird. Tracy didn't make that up. Then, I guess the recoil made his arm reflexively pull back to the right and the gun fell to his right side.

[Camper]

At this point and time in my life, I am forgetting more than I ever knew about the departed Mr. Helgoth.

Do WE know if the hi tec shoes were in fact HIS shoes? WE probably donot know if HIS dna were IN the shoes do WE?


.

[Tricia]

Thanks Tricia. I checked it out. In fact I had read much of it before I saw the "crockumentary". The Tracy thing sounded very compelling. Who knows?

All I know as a layman, is that if it was a suicide, he shot himself with his arm across his chest pointing the gun back through the pillow. Why would anyone do that? That is weird. Tracy didn't make that up. Then, I guess the recoil made his arm reflexively pull back to the right and the gun fell to his right side.


Thanks for reading it Rupert. :)

Please note that Helgoth's family has accepted the suicide ruling. This is not public knowledge but I do know it's a fact.

I also had a friend take this info to a well respected homicide detective. He was sure it was a suicide as well.

Anything with the two words "Michael Tracey" just gets my dander up. Sorry if I came too strong. The guy is a disgrace.

[aussiesheila]

Kenady said he reported his concerns about Helgoth to the BPD and that he called 10 - 20 times, but got no response and that no-one would call him back. I would like to know when he first went to the police. Does anyone know? Bluecrab? Tipper?

[aussiesheila]

Please please can anyone tell me the answer? This is not an idle question. It is important to my theory which I believe even if no-one else does.

[tipper]

Please please can anyone tell me the answer? This is not an idle question. It is important to my theory which I believe even if no-one else does.
I don't know the answer. You might try Jameson's website. Contrary to what has been posted you can read there even if you aren't a member. As far as I know there are no hidden threads, you can read the archives, and most importantly and unlike many member websites you can use the SEARCH function. The link is http://jameson245.com/ Check both the .com and .org sites.

[aussiesheila]

I don't know the answer. You might try Jameson's website. Contrary to what has been posted you can read there even if you aren't a member. As far as I know there are no hidden threads, you can read the archives, and most importantly and unlike many member websites you can use the SEARCH function. The link is http://jameson245.com/ Check both the .com and .org sites.Thank you very much Tipper, I do appreciate your help.

[Jayelles]

Thank you very much Tipper, I do appreciate your help.
Here is a link to the Tracey documentary in which Kenady spoke about going to the police:-

http://people.delphiforums.com/JAYELLES/Tracey%20III/Transcript/Tracey%20III%20TRanscript.htm

Also, check your inbox.

[narlacat]

I don't know the answer. You might try Jameson's website. Contrary to what has been posted you can read there even if you aren't a member. As far as I know there are no hidden threads, you can read the archives, and most importantly and unlike many member websites you can use the SEARCH function. The link is http://jameson245.com/ Check both the .com and .org sites.
Wow, it sounds just dandy over there at Jameson's. How nice of her to let you read there without being a member!!

[tipper]

Wow, it sounds just dandy over there at Jameson's. How nice of her to let you read there without being a member!!
Actually there are a number of places that won't let you read if you aren't a member. Many others (including here) won't let you Search if you aren't signed in.

[Jayelles]

Actually there are a number of places that won't let you read if you aren't a member. Many others (including here) won't let you Search if you aren't signed in.
The search facility at jameson's is pretty basic and not always helpful. Still, the software is very inexpensive and I guess one gets what one pays for!

[narlacat]

Well, I don't know why anyone would recommend Jameson's site, everyone knows she is a trouble maker and a liar at the very least and I really don't think you are going to find out anything there that you can't find out here.

[sissi]

I don't know that to be true. Yes ,I've read varying opinions over the years, however, I've been in "some limited" contact with her for years, and have never found her in a lie. I am going back to 1997, that's a lot of years for a liar not to lie to me.

[aussiesheila]

Here is a link to the Tracey documentary in which Kenady spoke about going to the police:-

http://people.delphiforums.com/JAYELLES/Tracey%20III/Transcript/Tracey%20III%20TRanscript.htm

Also, check your inbox.Thanks Jayelles I've read it and I'm mulling it over now

[Jayelles]

Thanks Jayelles I've read it and I'm mulling it over now
You are welcome. I recommend that you check the archives here and at Forumsforjustice.org to read about all of the misinformation which was in the documentary. It was quite frankly...scandalous. I think Tracey & Mills could have been fined for misleading the British public. It speaks volumes that when the documentary finally did reach the US, much of the content was altered.

[narlacat]

I don't know that to be true. Yes ,I've read varying opinions over the years, however, I've been in "some limited" contact with her for years, and have never found her in a lie. I am going back to 1997, that's a lot of years for a liar not to lie to me.
With all due respect Sissi, I don't know how you can say Jameson hasn't lied.
I'm not sure how you could have missed that.
I can't believe she has followers.

[aussiesheila]

I think this is how Helgoth fits into the picture:

IMO the pedophile group organising the coverup decided they would pin the murder on Helgoth. They arranged to have him killed in such a way that it would look like a suicide. They arranged for his death to take place the day after Hunter’s public statement directed at the killer in February 1997 "I want to say something to the person or persons that took this baby from us. The list of suspects narrows. Soon, there will be no one on the list but you."

The covering up pedophiles hoped the investigators would think that Helgoth had suicided because he was guilty of the JonBenet murder (as well as the Allie Berrelez one)and that he thought he was about to be prosecuted for both murders and so he did away with himself.

The pedophiles organised this because by that time they were getting worried that their plan to have John arrested for the sexual molestation and murder of JonBenet was beginning to look as though it wasn’t going to come off. John had by now been pretty thoroughly investigated by the BPD and nothing had come out that indicated any kind of sexual deviancy on his part.

The BPD were now widening their search for a child molester and killer. In their desperation to prevent the investigation turning away towards them and their own sexually deviant practices, the pedophiles seized upon Helgoth as someone they could set up as the being murderer. He was not one of their cosy genteel little group, was an unpleasant character who did not have many friends and had a criminal record of previous sexual assaults - an ideal candidate.

The pedophiles arranged some deal with Steven Gigax in which he would kill Helgoth. They planted a pair of Hi-Tec boots, a stun gun and a news videotape containing a bulletin about the murder of Allie Berrelez in Helgoth’s home.

They arranged another deal with Kenady in which he was to point the finger at Helgoth - to say that Helgoth told him he was going to get $50,000 as part of some deal, that he had Hi-Tec boots and a stun gun and he had talked about wanting to kill someone.

All this was supposed to tie things up very neatly, Helgoth would be out of the way and unable to deny anything, the case would be ‘solved’ and closed. After that they could all go back to their former peaceful lives free from the worry of prosecution and hopefully they would soon find some other little girl from which to derive their pleasure in the future.


This is all my opinion only

[Moab]

I think this is how Helgoth fits into the picture:

IMO the pedophile group organising the coverup decided they would pin the murder on Helgoth. They arranged to have him killed in such a way that it would look like a suicide. They arranged for his death to take place the day after Hunter’s public statement directed at the killer in February 1997 "I want to say something to the person or persons that took this baby from us. The list of suspects narrows. Soon, there will be no one on the list but you."

The covering up pedophiles hoped the investigators would think that Helgoth had suicided because he was guilty of the JonBenet murder (as well as the Allie Berrelez one)and that he thought he was about to be prosecuted for both murders and so he did away with himself.

The pedophiles organised this because by that time they were getting worried that their plan to have John arrested for the sexual molestation and murder of JonBenet was beginning to look as though it wasn’t going to come off. John had by now been pretty thoroughly investigated by the BPD and nothing had come out that indicated any kind of sexual deviancy on his part.

The BPD were now widening their search for a child molester and killer. In their desperation to prevent the investigation turning away towards them and their own sexually deviant practices, the pedophiles seized upon Helgoth as someone they could set up as the being murderer. He was not one of their cosy genteel little group, was an unpleasant character who did not have many friends and had a criminal record of previous sexual assaults - an ideal candidate.

The pedophiles arranged some deal with Steven Gigax in which he would kill Helgoth. They planted a pair of Hi-Tec boots, a stun gun and a news videotape containing a bulletin about the murder of Allie Berrelez in Helgoth’s home.

They arranged another deal with Kenady in which he was to point the finger at Helgoth - to say that Helgoth told him he was going to get $50,000 as part of some deal, that he had Hi-Tec boots and a stun gun and he had talked about wanting to kill someone.

All this was supposed to tie things up very neatly, Helgoth would be out of the way and unable to deny anything, the case would be ‘solved’ and closed. After that they could all go back to their former peaceful lives free from the worry of prosecution and hopefully they would soon find some other little girl from which to derive their pleasure in the future.


This is all my opinion only
The only thing I can add to this post is at the beginning and at the end...as in...

Once upon a time...

and

They lived happily ever after! :rolleyes: