General Discussion #7

[chicoliving]

Continue here! :)

[JerseyGirl]

I've been wondering if there was some significance to Raven calling his site "Ravenstree". Nothing yet but here is some interesting information about ravens:

Ravens, crows, wildlife information - DesertUSA (http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:bUpD7l9-wvIJ:www.desertusa.com/mag99/oct/papr/raven.html+ravens+tree&hl=en&ie=UTF-8)

The raven is often confused with its close relative, the crow, but there are major differences between the two species that are apparent when crows and ravens are seen together. Ravens are more solitary than crows ...

Ravens eat rodents, insects, grain, fruit, bird eggs and refuse. They consume much carrion, especially in winter and will even prey upon sick and injured animals...

A raven is every bit as alert as a crow and possesses sharp eyesight and hearing. Ravens are considered among the most intelligent of all birds; like crows, they can learn to imitate a variety of sounds, including the human voice...

Many cultures have regarded the raven as an omen of death, pestilence and disease...

Breeding & Nesting

The birds nest in a variety of locations. In southern Utah, ravens build large stick nests in a variety of locations, depending upon their nesting territory. Many nest sites are in alcoves or large fractures in cliff walls, or on protected ledges that are well shaded. But I've also observed nests builtin small shrubs, on bridge underpasses, telephone poles and signposts along railroads. Wherever there is a suitable platform to build a nest, that is a potential raven nesting area...

Common Raven Fact Sheet (http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:Bx9FrDMn-rgJ:www.dnr.state.md.us/wildlife/raven.html+ravens+tree&hl=en&ie=UTF-8)

... With a 4 ½ foot wingspan, the common raven is the largest of the birds classified by biologists as songbirds. They are considered to be extremely intelligent and will bury or store surplus food. They will hide their stored food under rocks or small holes in the ground and conceal their stash with leaves, twigs or other debris.

[JerseyGirl]

The Redfern Gallery--Mark Rossi (http://redferngallery.com/6800.html)

A piece of artwork called "Raven Tree". Raven did mention in his Classmates.com bio that he enjoys the arts/museums, etc. The artist lives in Tucson, Arizona.

[JerseyGirl]

Joshua Tree NP (http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:nAJaBN1P0fkJ:www.nps.gov/jotr/nature/animals/birds/ravens/ravens.html+ravens+tree&hl=en&ie=UTF-8)

... Ravens were uncommon in the California deserts in the first half of the 20th century; wildlife biologists now estimate that raven populations have increased here by approximately 1000 percent in the last 35 years. How has this happened? Although the question cannot be answered with any finality, much of the raven’s success seems to hinge on its innate intelligence and its ability to exploit conditions provided by human habitation. Wherever people are, ravens thrive. They are world-class opportunists...

Even before recorded history, Native Americans told many stories about the raven, the majority of which characterized it as a mischievous and clever animal...

These birds are very gregarious and sometimes form groups composed of as many as one hundred individuals. Their ability to produce a wide range of sounds may attest to a sophisticated avian vocabulary that, although largely impenetrable to humans, allows them to express themselves and communicate a vast amount of information crucial to their survival...

Ravens are neither predators nor scavengers—they are both. Some of their energy income is collected through predation while another portion is obtained by scavenging, but when people unwittingly provide them with fast food in the form of dog chow or shredded fishheads, why should they bother to hunt for a gourmet meal? They’re shrewd enough to grab what they can, when they can. And grab they do...

[JerseyGirl]

Crow City (http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:6mjCe3o3wc4J:www.crowcity.co.uk/info/raven.html+ravens+tree&hl=en&ie=UTF-8)
... There are many tales from antiquity to the present day about the wisdom and cunning of the raven. The raven who wished for a drink when the water was too low in the tank is an example; he collected stones from nearby and dropped them into the tank, thus heightening the level of the water. And it was not the dove but the raven whom Noah first sent forth from the ark to spy for land. The raven did not return, however, since it was too busy feeding on the floating corpses of the drowned ...

[terminatrixator]

Wow, JG, great information, seems like he was named correctly, as he is The Raven.

[JerseyGirl]

The Hotcâk Arrival Myth (http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:jl7mWa1m3ekJ:hotcakencyclopedia.com/ho.HotcankArrivalMyth.html+menominee+raven&hl=en&ie=UTF-8)

Tells a brief story followed by this commentary:

This story probably originated within the Bear Clan. In version 3 (http://hotcakencyclopedia.com/ho.BearClanOriginMyth.html#anchor266476) of the Bear Clan Origin Myth, the founders of the clan changed into ravens (crows) as they were crossing the waters. When they arrived on land, they changed back into bears. Because they changed twice, they were held to have greater power. [2] It may also be of interest that a raven is included as one of the items of the Thunderbird Warbundle. [3] The first man to land and to be recognized as chief would be expected to be a member of the Thunderbird Clan, as the chief is always drawn from that clan...

[ewwwinteresting]

Raven, raven sitting in his tree
cheating, lying and committing felonies
First comes probation
Then comes an arrest
Then comes the color orange, which suits you best!

[JerseyGirl]

"Raven" is part of the Thunder phratry.

The Menominee clan system is an example of the sophistication and culture found throughout early tribal groups in the Americas. In the system, each phratry was an excellent source of expertise and knowledge, in specific areas. Based on these areas, each one performed a specific duty:

Bear - Speakers and keepers of the law.

Thunderers - Freedom and justice.

Moose - Community or individual security.

Crane- Architecture, construction, and art.

Wolf - Hunting and gathering.

[lauriej]

..good digging Jersey.........

"Even before recorded history, Native Americans told many stories about the raven, the majority of which characterized it as a mischievous and clever animal..."

.....mischievious? i'm sure he thinks so.... clever ? guess we'll see.

[lauriej]

terminatrixator (http://websleuths.com/forums/member.php?u=6009) http://websleuths.com/forums/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif vbmenu_register("postmenu_860234", true);
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 274


Boy & Girl
Welcome SimonSays,

Boy marries, girl, girl, finds out her husband is cheating, girl find outs she's pregnant, girl has baby, boy probably cheats more, boy spends all his money on toys, boy doesn't pay his bills, boy buys more toys, boy talks about his knife collection, boy lies, boy cheats, boy embezzles from his firm, boy gets fired, boy can't keep a job, girl finds out she's expecting a baby, girl is a mother of a 6-month old child, girl is beautiful, girl is smart, girl is good, boy writes about changes coming up in his life, next day girl is brutaly murdered along with her unborn child, boy tells LE girl hurt, boy tells LE girl shot, girl died of multiple stab wounds, boy tells people girl committed suicide, boy tells people she died, boy doesn't ask public for information, boy's family starts a trust fund day after MURDER in another state, boy takes child and moves to other state, boy doesn't contact LE regarding girl's murder, boy finally goes to court on embezzlement charges, boy tells people it was misdemeanor, boy lied, boy is a convicted felon, boy plays soccer, boy takes online classes, boy goes to singles functions, boy travels, boy pawns his motherless child on others, boy has anger issues, boy out walking the streets, playing with his toys, working part-time jobs, boy lies on resumes, boy likes lying, denying, and snivelling, boy is murderer, girl and baby are gone, boy is bad, bad person.

Not the End!




...i didn't take the post 'lightly' or as 'humourous' ............but, in a nut-shell, there you have it.......

..for those new to the case----------excellent summation.......( but do click on the threads and read more.............interesting stuff..)

..Welcome SimonSays! a new prospective is always refreshing, please post your thoughts.......:)

..( i'm not able to post/read here as much as i'd like to these days----------my hats off to those of you 'hard at it, and continuing on in the name of justice")..hopefully, we WILL see an arrest one of these days, or WAS this the perfect murder ? maybe, time will tell...

[Moxie]

Raven, raven sitting in his tree
cheating, lying and committing felonies
First comes probation
Then comes an arrest
Then comes the color orange, which suits you best!
This is good!!

[terminatrixator]

Don't know where to post this, but the Media Links Section (do not talk) is not up-to-date. Many of the articles and stories have been archived. When a paper archives an article - the direct link is broken.

I have a record of all the articles, in order, with their direct links if anyone is looking for an article in particular.

If an admin or moderator would like me to start reposting them or start a new "Updated" media thread - please feel free to let me know.

[JerseyGirl]

We've got 17 people that voted unsure on the poll about who murdered Janet. Interestingly, we have 9 that have voted for specific murder scenarios that exclude Raven including a "family member", a "jealous female", an "infatuated ex-boyfriend", and "contract killer".

Since comments tend to get overlooked on that thread, I wanted to bring this up here. I have no problem with other opinions but I'm really curious to know what's leading some people to believe so differently than other people. For those of you that voted in one of the minority categories, please help us to see how you believe the way that you do. What is it that you see in the information that we've all compiled that leads you to believe that Raven did NOT commit this crime?

[ewwwinteresting]

Welcome to the forum here momx3. Finally someone that knows raven speaks out. I bet it was quite a shock to be looking for an old classmate and find out he steals, lies, cheats and possibly murders!:eek: It would be interesting to hear what raven's friends think. I wonder how many of them don't want to think about it?...especially if they are married themselves. I can't imagine any of them wanting to leave their spouse or child alone in a room with raven...that "I'm not positive his innocent" creeps up in their mind often, I bet!

[terminatrixator]

Welcome to the forum here momx3. Finally someone that knows raven speaks out. I bet it was quite a shock to be looking for an old classmate and find out he steals, lies, cheats and possibly murders!:eek: It would be interesting to hear what raven's friends think. I wonder how many of them don't want to think about it?...especially if they are married themselves. I can't imagine any of them wanting to leave their spouse or child alone in a room with raven...that "I'm not positive his innocent" creeps up in their mind often, I bet! You know I believe you are correct here, without an arrest yet, I believe there are those of us that believe he's guilty, but don't quite understand why an arrest hasn't been made yet and are starting to climb back on that proverbial fence. I am willing to bet there are more than one friend of Raven's that is having doubts about his innocence, and are probably afraid to come forward.

I am willing to bet there are girls from his past, that he may have had dalliances with that are terrified to come forward, very worried about becoming a target or another "Amber Frey."

[lauriej]

i don't get to this forum much lately............or online at all actually--------but i still think of "this case"...

..i guess you could say i am on "the proverbial fence"..

..i was so quick to bash and trash raven initially--but LE has got the statements , the evidence, fingerprints, police reports--------i just can't see why they haven't made an arrest if it's such a certainty that raven did this ?

..i hope that raven's "old supporters" WILL come back ---------i'd like to hear what they have to say again, now that i've had time to seriously think over the posts from months ago, there were people here that actually KNEW raven...and janet...scared away ? i don't know....

..say what you will, but i feel that raven's friends know a lot more than the posters on this board.......if THEY think he couldn't have done this ..i'm not so sure that they're wrong---------what if he's innocent ? who else do you think could be responsible ? what about the landlord? i remember his name came up initially.....who else ?

[terminatrixator]

Thanks for your post Laurij

I myself will not even look at the fence, let alone climb it, of course, I couldn't pull my big butt up there, so I won't even try.

I am interested in other theories and really would love to hear any theories that fit.

I think people on the proverbial fence is a good thing, especially when they are like you and others that actually have something to add or can help me at least look at the fence.

[Angels_Not_Forgotten]

I understand what your saying Laurij. This is a terrible circumstance and If Raven did not do it, then im ok with that, and I apologize for all I have said. ITs just a sad situation tht seems not to have an end in site. About friends though, Im sure some other murders friends couldnt wouldnt believe it was them either. What strikes me is that SOME of his friends are saying "yes hes capible" or some people that know him thru work/school. I would hope that if the situation/circumstance ever came up around me that not one of my friend could think me capable of such a henious crime. All im saying is that yes, he has SOME friends saying "hey, this isnt the raven I know" But im more concerned with the friends saying "Yes i blieve its him" I mean if your FRIENDS think your a murderer, who knows?

[Thinkoflaura]

I think of Janet's murder almost daily. I remain planted firmly on the side of the fence that has " Raven is guilty" painted on it.
As far as no arrest and trying to tie lack of arrest to DNA evidence, I wouldn't be surprised if the DNA evidence is still not all tested. At the time Janet was killed, the area newspapers were full of fresh, unsolved homicides.
We also found a news article at the time stating that the NC Forensics lab was very understaffed and was in need of more personnel and more financing.
Adding the high caseload in the past year to the apparently inadequate state testing facility, I'm not too surprised that we haven't seen an arrest yet.

Then we get into the very gray area of DNA evidence regarding the usual vs. unusual contaminents from members of a household.. If some of you are unaware of how that can totally side line and stop a case in its tracks, think OJ and Nicole, or please read some of the Ramsey case threads about fibers, etc. JonBenet Ramsey was found murdered in the basement of her home by her father. The case was initially thought to be a kidnapping for ransom.

Almost 10 years after the Ramsey murder, there are almost as many opinions as to what is normal vs. abnormal fiber and DNA evidence from family members found at the crimescene as there are WS posters and forensics experts. Posters are still debating the significance of A fiber, A hair, A drop of co-mingled unidentified male DNA in her panties. I think it's wonderful that some still have the diligence to perservere, but by this point, the debating spirit has turned to frustration and a sense of futility for most people.
For example, in the Ramsey case, a suitcase in the basement where the child's body was found contained a Dr. Seuss book and a comforter with semen from JonBenet's older half- brother, John Andrew, who was around 19 or 20 at the time of the murder. Is John Andrew a suspect? No.
Because his alibi that he was in Atlanta is *substantiated* by evidence of poor quality bank video footage of a young man resembling John Andrew and wearing a baseball cap using his ATM card in Atlanta in the middle of the night, making it impossible for him to be in Boulder CO, at the murder scene, apparently.
Another blanket found on or near the body contained a pubic hair identified in the media as belonging to the victim's older half- sister, Melinda, age around 23 at the time of the crime. Melinda has never been considered a suspect. The presence of the pubic hair on the blanket along with the contents of the suitcase and the victim's other sibling, Burke's prized swiss army knife in the basement when his parents have said he was careless with the knief and it had been confiscated for that period of time has caused confusion. It has led some to wonder if the crimescene was staged by someone trying to divert attention away from the perp and to all the other children of John Ramsey. Or was it normal household contamination? I don't know, although like most people, I have a theory which uses the KISS principle.
IMO, short of a confession, the crimescene is too contaminated and the evidence containing what should be valuable DNA ( her fingernail clippings and DNA samples from her panties) was probably contaminated through shoddy collection and handling practices. As far as I know, contaminated DNA evidence cannot be uncontanimated, especially when dealing with such tiny fragments.

We do not know what has been tested and excluded in the Abaroa case, to the best of my knowledge. I hope very much that the evidence collecting teams had much more experience than the ones in Boulder CO. and that someone in LE assigned to Janet's case is active in asking the NC lab for results.
I also hope there is pressure from someone representing her personally, like her family or a congressman in her district, which we probably wouldn't know about.
Nothing about this very interesting case has been deemed newsworthy, probably because of the national attention to the runaway bride when Janet's murder was positioned to be a hot news topic.

[snapple]

Great Post, Thinkoflaura. I do get frustrated by the wait, but you have pointed out some good, valid, reasons as to why an arrest maybe taking so long. I feel somewhat appeased by your post. Hopefully an airtight case is being made as we speak and an arrest is imminent!

[terminatrixator]

Thank you so much for your insight and your post. It is really appreciated, especially now, with so little activity here.

I believe you are correct that not all forensic testing has been completed with the backlog at the State Testing Facility.

I also believe that since there had been a pretty big size trial going on in Durham, NC, in which Officer Early, one of the first to arrive at the scene on Ferrand, had to take the stand, and this trial being aired, from what I heard, LE is also juggling their manpower right now.

I still have complete faith that the LE in Durham, NC know what they are doing. This is not a city that doesn't have well-trained officers, and they have a lot of experience on their side. After the Michael Peterson (Peterson East) trial, they are, I believe, even more careful to dot their I's and cross their T's.

Regarding the Wilbanks fiasco, I doubt highly that this woman realized the stir she created would cause real cases, such as the Murders of Janet Marie Christiansen Abaroa and her unborn child, to take such a back seat to her seemingly careless negligent act in the media. I do however, shudder when I hear her name, or think back and realize the amount of time I spent hoping for word of her safe return.

I believe that LE will eventually get the cold-blooded murderer of Janet and her unborn child.

[Jenifred]

ToL--It's always good to see you back here. And your post is very insightful too.

I think that DNA is going to be very difficult in this case--unless it's blaring--because Raven lived in that house too. I think that DNA would only help in proving that someone else was in the house that evening. And if that's the truth, I think that Raven would have been cleared by now--but he's not, so it tells me he's still the main POI.

[Thinkoflaura]

Hi, Jenni,
I believe various experts will be able to piece together a comprehensive case from her complete autopsy ( which I don't think has been released to the public, correct?) and forensic testing, along with ALL of the E- trails and other proveable FUs Raven has made and subsequently tried to erase.

Proving motive is not necessary, but jurors do tend to convict based upon a proven and believable motive. Again, the KISS principle. Most jurors are not well- versed on BLOGS, DNA, or the Mormon church doctrines ( which may come into play at some point re: the pregnancy). This case seems to be pretty heavy on potential to prove motive, IMO. For example:
An accurate timeline which blows his alibi to he!! ( but alone is not enough to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt).
A database search which produces evidence and dates of multiple or large life insurance policy( ies) on Janet.
A clear and detailed timeline of his financial woes. ( We know this is proveable already).

As far as the DNA and physical evidence testing goes, from what bits I know, the presence of Janet's blood or other body fluids at the crimescene co-mingled with DNA from a second source, including Raven's, would be a jackpot. In saying this, I am referring to a blood, saliva, sweat, or urine droplet of Janet's co-mingled with a blood, saliva or sweat droplet belonging to someone else. I added urine because the bladder sometimes releases urine at the time of death.
We know she didn't kill herself, so there IS evidence in tiny layers from the crimescene. Hopefully, it was correctly collected, is or was correctly tested and professionally interpreted. These factors produce successful prosecution when the owner of the second DNA sample is identifiable. This goes back to the first statement released by LE that the murder was NOT a random act. The statement gives much weight to the promise that co-mingled DNA from the crimescene will not belong to a random stranger with no DNA on file.

We don't know if all of Raven's clothing tested negative for blood. We don't know the entire story about evidence collected beside the stream near the house. We ALSO don't know if any trace blood evidence was collected or found on Kaiden. If Janet's blood was found on or around Kaiden, but not on Raven by the time LE was called to the scene, it points heavily to his lying about what he did and when. He could very well have transferred minute traces of blood to Kaiden's skin, clothing, carpeting or bedding if he picked him up or went into the room before he had cleaned up.
In a recent murder case, blood was found on the inside of the husband's sport shoe shoelace eyelets. The crime lab literally took the shoes apart and found the deceased wife's blood where it was not washed off with bleach and water.

We don't know what testing of all the knives collected showed. We don't know anything about the co-workers alarmed about Janet, her communications to them at work or from home, to the best of my knowledge.

We don't know so much more than we do know..
I choose to believe this is because the case has NOT been a high profile case, so the media has not gotten and distributed leaked crimescene info.
Same goes for her family. They are not media hounds, thankfully.

The only person in Janet's world who loved attention is sneaking around the country, and he ain't talkin'.

[terminatrixator]

Again, Great Post, I think you are right, there are more things we do not know than we know.

[Jenifred]

I just hope that everything was collected as efficiently as you described, ToL. Because it would be a shame if they are missing that little tiny piece of DNA or whatever that could have been collected and screamed GUILTY! Oh, wait, everything else already does!!!

[lauriej]

Again, Great Post, I think you are right, there are more things we do not know than we know.
..i do agree...TOL has posted some good insight ---but again----there are so many things that we do NOT know--------and that 's where i feel friends of raven come in------they KNOW what he was like at the time----and what he's feeling/going through now---------

.. 'feelings' are huge---------i'd welcome what any of his friends had to contribute , i think it would be valuable info at this point.

[JerseyGirl]

No news when searching for "Raven Abaroa". I did, however, get results for a book titled "Corrupt Cities", an article about Saddam Hussein, and something titled "Traveling to Bolivia?"

[JerseyGirl]

Wanted to share ...

Poetry 180 - End of April (http://www.loc.gov/poetry/180/178.html)

End of April

Phillis Levin

Under a cherry tree
I found a robin’s egg,
broken, but not shattered.

I had been thinking of you,
and was kneeling in the grass
among fallen blossoms

when I saw it: a blue scrap,
a delicate toy, as light
as confetti

It didn’t seem real,
but nature will do such things
from time to time.

I looked inside:
it was glistening, hollow,
a perfect shell

except for the missing crown,
which made it possible
to look inside.

What had been there
is gone now
and lives in my heart

where, periodically,
it opens up its wings,
tearing me apart.

[terminatrixator]

Actually I received a Google Alert on Raven Abaroa and thought I would share with you. Besides the normal Now Defunct Myspace account which is now a sex site, which is irritating in itself, I received an alert from the December 9th standings.

Yes Raven, you are nothing more to me than a Google Alert and a monster and I wish you didn't put us in the position of even knowing your name.

Back to my point, I clicked on the link and actually Raven did not show up on there. I thought he was on Mulletproof and perhaps because of the publicity on Websleuths, they either decided not to announce Mulletproof's scores anymore, they dropped out, or they changed their name.

Just thought I'd share.

Trix
--------
MENS B
RAVEN ABAROA, REGULATERS, 8, 0, 8. ANTONIO VILLALPANDO, TURF DIGGERS, 6,
2, 8. TRAVIS WINN, SUMMIT SATELLITE, 6, 2, 8 ...


<http://www.letsplaysoccer.com/Main/Locations/TIMPANOGOS/std/MB.htm>

[terminatrixator]

Wanted to share ...

Poetry 180 - End of April (http://www.loc.gov/poetry/180/178.html)

End of April

Phillis Levin

Under a cherry tree
I found a robin’s egg,
broken, but not shattered.

I had been thinking of you,
and was kneeling in the grass
among fallen blossoms

when I saw it: a blue scrap,
a delicate toy, as light
as confetti

It didn’t seem real,
but nature will do such things
from time to time.

I looked inside:
it was glistening, hollow,
a perfect shell

except for the missing crown,
which made it possible
to look inside.

What had been there
is gone now
and lives in my heart

where, periodically,
it opens up its wings,
tearing me apart.
Wow, JG, how beautiful and sad this poem really is. Thank you for sharing with us.

[JerseyGirl]

The Durham News | Around Town (http://www.thedurhamnews.com/local/story/2867333p-9324439c.html)

Mapping the Violence
Homicides in 2005

By SAMIHA KHANNA, Staff Writer

Here is a list of the homicides in Durham in 2005. Numbers correspond with the map above...

12. APRIL 26: Janet M. Abaroa, 25, stabbed to death in her home at 2606 Ferrand Drive. She was pregnant. No arrests...

[JerseyGirl]

I was just doing some random searches to see if there was any news on the case, and I came across this link. I don't want to click it and don't suggest that any of you do either unless you know what you're doing, (just in case).

[PDF] Life Line August 2002 (https://lifeforce-intl.com/pdfs/international/newsletters/Aug02.pdf)
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML (http://216.239.51.104/search?q=cache:ti72K1wTfjwJ:https://lifeforce-intl.com/pdfs/international/newsletters/Aug02.pdf+shiloh+abaroa&hl=en&ie=UTF-8)
Your browser may not have a PDF reader available. Google recommends visiting our text version (http://216.239.51.104/search?q=cache:ti72K1wTfjwJ:https://lifeforce-intl.com/pdfs/international/newsletters/Aug02.pdf+shiloh+abaroa&hl=en&ie=UTF-8) of this document.
Karyn Abaroa-Bolton*. Kathy Cameron*. Katrina Tran*. Keith & Cheryl Wunderlich*
... Kuipers • Sharon Dawson • Sharon Lancaster • Shiloh Marketing • ...
https://lifeforce-intl.com/ pdfs/international/newsletters/Aug02.pdf - Similar pages (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&q=related:https://lifeforce-intl.com/pdfs/international/newsletters/Aug02.pdf)

What's intrigued me is that Karyn Abaroa-Bolton is Raven's mother and Shiloh is his sister. Notice "Shiloh Marketing" in the link. Is this a legitimate marketing company or is this something that was "made up", if you will, as part of some get-rich-quick scheme? Also, notice the name Katrina Tran ... wasn't Shiloh listed as Katrina at Classmates.com or am I remembering incorrectly after all of this time?

I don't know what this means, (if anything), but it jumped out at me so I figured I'd share it with my fellow sleuthers. :)

[JerseyGirl]

Okay, I found it - the name was Treena, not Katrina. But Treena could be a nickname for Katrina. :waitasec: They do all seem to have a dozen variations of their chosen names.

Anyway, here's the original post by PrayersForMaura:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - The Murder of Janet Abaroa #2 (http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=656312&postcount=359)

Originally Posted by PrayersForMaura
Ok, this is odd... I went to classmates.com and found abaroa's profile and clicked on the school he went to and it brought up his sister, shiloh abaroa... but when I cliecked on her name, it listed "treena smith" as her name.

And the reply from ThinkOfLaura:

YES, there are 2 proper surnames for the " Abaroa" children and half-siblings. One is Peters, the other Smith. Go back to the initial threads, and you will see that all of the children had either an S or a P in their names before " Abaroa".

[ewwwinteresting]

What's intrigued me is that Karyn Abaroa-Bolton is Raven's mother and Shiloh is his sister. Notice "Shiloh Marketing" in the link. Is this a legitimate marketing company or is this something that was "made up", if you will, as part of some get-rich-quick scheme?
Very interesting JG. Wouldn't surprise me one bit if it's some made up company.

[ewwwinteresting]

The Durham News | Around Town (http://www.thedurhamnews.com/local/story/2867333p-9324439c.html)

Mapping the Violence
Homicides in 2005

By SAMIHA KHANNA, Staff Writer

Here is a list of the homicides in Durham in 2005. Numbers correspond with the map above...

12. APRIL 26: Janet M. Abaroa, 25, stabbed to death in her home at 2606 Ferrand Drive. She was pregnant. No arrests...
Interesting article.

2 unsolved murders - beatup or pushed
6 unsolved murders - shot
4 unsolved murders - drug related
and 1 unsolved murder - stabbing!!

Janet's the only unsolved case that was a stabbing....

[Jenifred]

Just saw on the news that a non-profit organization has put together a $5000 tipster reward on Janet's case. They showed a picture of her, the crime scene, and then flashed a picture of Raven and the baby. They repeated that law enforcement doesn't believe the case is random. So is law enforcement just waiting for Raven to step forward and admit that he did it before they have enough evidence to charge him??!!?? This nonsense has gone on long enough!Join in our frustration NCB! I think they are looking for a former fling/girlfriend/lover whatever to step forward. He's got to have said something to someone.

[LTUlegal]

I just think there must be just ONE MORE THING they need for this case...one more piece of evidence? HARD evidence? Do they have the weapon? I don't know...

However frustrating it is for us, maybe they're afraid to have the same appeal issues that were involved in the Michael Peterson case. I just have to believe that may be the reason why it's taking so long.

My 2 cents...just keeping the faith for JUSTICE FOR JANET, KAIDEN & HER UNBORN BABY

[terminatrixator]

Okay, I found it - the name was Treena, not Katrina. But Treena could be a nickname for Katrina. :waitasec: They do all seem to have a dozen variations of their chosen names.

Anyway, here's the original post by PrayersForMaura:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - The Murder of Janet Abaroa #2 (http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=656312&postcount=359)

Originally Posted by PrayersForMaura
Ok, this is odd... I went to classmates.com and found abaroa's profile and clicked on the school he went to and it brought up his sister, shiloh abaroa... but when I cliecked on her name, it listed "treena smith" as her name.

And the reply from ThinkOfLaura:

YES, there are 2 proper surnames for the " Abaroa" children and half-siblings. One is Peters, the other Smith. Go back to the initial threads, and you will see that all of the children had either an S or a P in their names before " Abaroa".
So basically they are walking around with several names right now, and can use them at will? Must be nice!

[terminatrixator]

I was just doing some random searches to see if there was any news on the case, and I came across this link. I don't want to click it and don't suggest that any of you do either unless you know what you're doing, (just in case).

[PDF] Life Line August 2002 (https://lifeforce-intl.com/pdfs/international/newsletters/Aug02.pdf)
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML (http://216.239.51.104/search?q=cache:ti72K1wTfjwJ:https://lifeforce-intl.com/pdfs/international/newsletters/Aug02.pdf+shiloh+abaroa&hl=en&ie=UTF-8)
Your browser may not have a PDF reader available. Google recommends visiting our text version (http://216.239.51.104/search?q=cache:ti72K1wTfjwJ:https://lifeforce-intl.com/pdfs/international/newsletters/Aug02.pdf+shiloh+abaroa&hl=en&ie=UTF-8) of this document.
Karyn Abaroa-Bolton*. Kathy Cameron*. Katrina Tran*. Keith & Cheryl Wunderlich*
... Kuipers • Sharon Dawson • Sharon Lancaster • Shiloh Marketing • ...
https://lifeforce-intl.com/ pdfs/international/newsletters/Aug02.pdf - Similar pages (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&q=related:https://lifeforce-intl.com/pdfs/international/newsletters/Aug02.pdf)

What's intrigued me is that Karyn Abaroa-Bolton is Raven's mother and Shiloh is his sister. Notice "Shiloh Marketing" in the link. Is this a legitimate marketing company or is this something that was "made up", if you will, as part of some get-rich-quick scheme? Also, notice the name Katrina Tran ... wasn't Shiloh listed as Katrina at Classmates.com or am I remembering incorrectly after all of this time?

I don't know what this means, (if anything), but it jumped out at me so I figured I'd share it with my fellow sleuthers. :)
This seems like another get rich scam to me, I don't know but I read the site, and there's more about Testimony of their products, and getting rich than about the products themselves. It reminds me of the old pyramid schemes.

[newkid]

I was just doing some random searches to see if there was any news on the case, and I came across this link. I don't want to click it and don't suggest that any of you do either unless you know what you're doing, (just in case).

[PDF] Life Line August 2002 (https://lifeforce-intl.com/pdfs/international/newsletters/Aug02.pdf)
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML (http://216.239.51.104/search?q=cache:ti72K1wTfjwJ:https://lifeforce-intl.com/pdfs/international/newsletters/Aug02.pdf+shiloh+abaroa&hl=en&ie=UTF-8)
Your browser may not have a PDF reader available. Google recommends visiting our text version (http://216.239.51.104/search?q=cache:ti72K1wTfjwJ:https://lifeforce-intl.com/pdfs/international/newsletters/Aug02.pdf+shiloh+abaroa&hl=en&ie=UTF-8) of this document.
Karyn Abaroa-Bolton*. Kathy Cameron*. Katrina Tran*. Keith & Cheryl Wunderlich*
... Kuipers • Sharon Dawson • Sharon Lancaster • Shiloh Marketing • ...
https://lifeforce-intl.com/ pdfs/international/newsletters/Aug02.pdf - Similar pages (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&q=related:https://lifeforce-intl.com/pdfs/international/newsletters/Aug02.pdf)

What's intrigued me is that Karyn Abaroa-Bolton is Raven's mother and Shiloh is his sister. Notice "Shiloh Marketing" in the link. Is this a legitimate marketing company or is this something that was "made up", if you will, as part of some get-rich-quick scheme? Also, notice the name Katrina Tran ... wasn't Shiloh listed as Katrina at Classmates.com or am I remembering incorrectly after all of this time?

I don't know what this means, (if anything), but it jumped out at me so I figured I'd share it with my fellow sleuthers. :)I looked at Life Force Intl and I think I've seen it before. I think it is a mlm type thing. A co-worker who is always looking for a get rich quick opportunity was into it for a while. I would never buy any of their products based solely on the fact that they don't list the ingredients, just some vague references.

[munch]

Not sure if anyone has posted this, but here is a link to where he now works...

You can email him on the left.

http://www.canyonbicyclesdraper.com/about_us/about_us.htm (http://www.canyonbicyclesdraper.com/about_us/about_us.htm)

[JerseyGirl]

So basically they are walking around with several names right now, and can use them at will? Must be nice!Yep, and it makes it very time-consuming to locate them online. All the stuff we've found, both on the boards and behind-the-scenes ... can you imagine how much we HAVEN'T found based on those name variations?

[JerseyGirl]

This seems like another get rich scam to me, I don't know but I read the site, and there's more about Testimony of their products, and getting rich than about the products themselves. It reminds me of the old pyramid schemes.I did notice that they move people up in ranks, and it seems that it might be based, at least in part, on how many new members you've signed up. :rolleyes:

[Niner]

sorry, but I'm getting into this case a bit late... can someone tell me "where" I can find the Discussion threads 1 thru 6 - ??

Thanks! :dance:

[JerseyGirl]

Hi Niner. Here are the first four threads:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - The Murder of Janet Abaroa (http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22968)

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - The Murder of Janet Abaroa #2 (http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23661)

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - Genreral discussion #3 (http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23944)

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - General Discussions #4 (http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24268)

It was originally just a thread in the crimes forum - at some point it got its own forum and I don't remember what happened at that point with threads and thread names but I'll check around a bit.

Welcome to the forum!!! :)

[JerseyGirl]

Here are the other two:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - General Discussions #5 (http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24427)

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - General Discussions #6 (http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25008)

We got a little scatter-brained from time to time so some of this might not make complete sense without looking through the other threads. Let us know if you need any help or direction - we'd be more than happy to help. :)

[JerseyGirl]

Old facts revisited (in consideration of some newer facts):

Old fact - Raven kisses Kaiden "goodnight" when he gets back from soccer.

New fact - Raven left for soccer at 8:30.

Assumption - wouldn't a 6 month-old have been in bed by the time Raven left at 8:30.

Question - if Kaiden was in bed when Raven left at 8:30, wouldn't Raven have already kissed him goodnight? If so, would he have kissed him again?

[Niner]

Thanks JerseyGirl :D WOW! That first one is 32 pages long!! LOTS to read I see! Thanks again!

[JerseyGirl]

You're very welcome, Niner, although I do have to say ... Go Pittsburgh! :D

[Niner]

You're very welcome, Niner, although I do have to say ... Go Pittsburgh! :D

LOL! Well I guess it's going to be East Coast vs West Coast this year!!

(sorry OT!) :doh:

[LTUlegal]

LOL! Well I guess it's going to be East Coast vs West Coast this year!!

(sorry OT!) :doh:
Well, I love our Jersey Girl, but I have to agree with you...GO HAWKS! o/t :D

The timeline to me is definitely a good question to ponder....How exact do they have to really be on the press release?

[lauriej]

Old facts revisited (in consideration of some newer facts):

Old fact - Raven kisses Kaiden "goodnight" when he gets back from soccer.

New fact - Raven left for soccer at 8:30.

Assumption - wouldn't a 6 month-old have been in bed by the time Raven left at 8:30.

Question - if Kaiden was in bed when Raven left at 8:30, wouldn't Raven have already kissed him goodnight? If so, would he have kissed him again?
..excellent point jersey.......! i would definitely agree that a 6 month old baby was well asleep prior to 8:30 p.m.....fed, bathed, AND sound asleep by 7 would be more like it..

..what time did the hometeacher(s) arrive ? and leave ? ( surely they could shed some light on whether kaiden was awake or asleep while they were there.)

..raven was back home by ,was it 10:50 ? ( putting him at the game around 9----leaving by around 10:30............?( judging by the place we had him playing at "way back when"..when we had a 20 minute timeframe for him to get there/get back home..)

..not a whole lot of time for a NON stranger to NOT break into their house and NOT randomly kill an innocent woman........hmmmmmmmmmmmm.......

[BirdHunter]

Well, I love our Jersey Girl, but I have to agree with you...GO HAWKS! o/t :D

The timeline to me is definitely a good question to ponder....How exact do they have to really be on the press release?Since if came from LE themselves, and not just a news article written by a local reporter here, I would think it would be pretty darn close. It was almost as if LE wanted people to think about that night and remember where they were at those times to see if anything jogged their memory. This is the first time I have seen an actual description of the car driven by Raven and the soccer game named.

[Moxie]

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Registered User
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I Don't Care Raven Is Guilty!!!
THIS SUCKS!!!!!! STILL NO ARREST!!!!!!



I know I am supposed to keep my cool and not say anything but I am sick of this.........



Raven I saw you in Annandale.... I saw the video you and a friend created for Janet.... I looked at you as it played to a room full of tears... and you showed NO EMOTION!! You know you did it.. I am sick to my stomach about this bullcrap. How could you do it?? WHY!! I know why, you are a punk bitch that would rather get rid of a human being instead of being a MAN and face responsibility. I read your blog. You moved around so much you probably felt too tied down... And when Janet told you she was pregnant again you freaked out... YOU KNOW THERE IS SOMETHING CALLED DIVORCE ASSHOLE!!!!!! You could have divorced her if you didn't want her anymore. But you probably are one of those guys that don't want anybody to have her but you. What are you scared of? huh Scared that someone else might make her happier? Scared that some other guy will raise your son? Was that too unbearable?? You punk ass. You chose to take her and the baby she was carrying out instead of paying child support. LORD there are so many motives something has to come up.....



I bet your mommy takes care of the baby and you go out and party. You are the definition of evil. I hope you are HAUNTED EVERYDAY over what you did. DID YOU FEEL LIKE A MAN AS YOU LOOKED IN TO HER EYES AND WATCH HER PASS AWAY?? I can't wait till Kaiden grows up and asks you what happened to his mom... I wish I could be in the same room when he asks this question just to see your reaction when you find yourself having to lie to him in front of me. I bet you would stutter like crazy... If you’re so innocent then why not be more pro-active about finding who really did it?????? Why are you not going crazy trying to find who did this "random" murder!!?? SHE WAS YOUR WIFE!! THIS WAS NOT RANDOM!!!! THE POLICE KNOW IT WAS NOT RANDOM!!!! You killed a loving, FORGIVING, and faithful angel of god. And if you don't pay for what you did now, trust me your son will make you pay emotionally. He will know... HE WILL KNOW!!!! And nobody will have to tell him. He will figure it out for himself...............





"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"



GOD IS JUST

[terminatrixator]

Family Friend,

I'm sorry for the pain and anger you are in right now, but want you to know, that you are not alone in your feelings and your knowledge of what transpired.

One person, and only person changed the course of many lives, and that person is still walking free to laugh, to fake sob, to date, to bike, to play soccer, to get money for social security and use for personal use, to raise precious Kaiden, and there are two angels, Janet her precious child, looking over Kaiden right now, and they both want Justice on Earth, and I can't wait until God hands out his Judgment on Raven, it will be swift, it will be just, it will be ETERNAL damnation.

Again, I'm sorry for your loss.

[RainbowsAndGumdrops]

I have to admit that I used to like Raven. But now I simply say that the bird should fry. I have come up with an idea (I hear that it is how they caught Al Capone). Who here reallly thinks that Raven paid his taxes on the money he embezzled? NOT ME! Taxes are due, even when the money is obtained illegally. Since he pled guilty we have record that the money was indeed imbezzled. Do you think he filed a modified return to pay taxes on that money? NO. Isn't tax evasion another FELONY! Isn't that survivor guy facing 6 years in jail. I would settle for 6 years on tax evasion. By then, we would have him for murder too!

[LTUlegal]

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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2


I Don't Care Raven Is Guilty!!!
THIS SUCKS!!!!!! STILL NO ARREST!!!!!!



I know I am supposed to keep my cool and not say anything but I am sick of this.........



Raven I saw you in Annandale.... I saw the video you and a friend created for Janet.... I looked at you as it played to a room full of tears... and you showed NO EMOTION!! You know you did it.. I am sick to my stomach about this bullcrap. How could you do it?? WHY!! I know why, you are a punk bitch that would rather get rid of a human being instead of being a MAN and face responsibility. I read your blog. You moved around so much you probably felt too tied down... And when Janet told you she was pregnant again you freaked out... YOU KNOW THERE IS SOMETHING CALLED DIVORCE ASSHOLE!!!!!! You could have divorced her if you didn't want her anymore. But you probably are one of those guys that don't want anybody to have her but you. What are you scared of? huh Scared that someone else might make her happier? Scared that some other guy will raise your son? Was that too unbearable?? You punk ass. You chose to take her and the baby she was carrying out instead of paying child support. LORD there are so many motives something has to come up.....



I bet your mommy takes care of the baby and you go out and party. You are the definition of evil. I hope you are HAUNTED EVERYDAY over what you did. DID YOU FEEL LIKE A MAN AS YOU LOOKED IN TO HER EYES AND WATCH HER PASS AWAY?? I can't wait till Kaiden grows up and asks you what happened to his mom... I wish I could be in the same room when he asks this question just to see your reaction when you find yourself having to lie to him in front of me. I bet you would stutter like crazy... If you’re so innocent then why not be more pro-active about finding who really did it?????? Why are you not going crazy trying to find who did this "random" murder!!?? SHE WAS YOUR WIFE!! THIS WAS NOT RANDOM!!!! THE POLICE KNOW IT WAS NOT RANDOM!!!! You killed a loving, FORGIVING, and faithful angel of god. And if you don't pay for what you did now, trust me your son will make you pay emotionally. He will know... HE WILL KNOW!!!! And nobody will have to tell him. He will figure it out for himself...............





"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"



GOD IS JUST
This just deserves to be copied again. wow.

[LTUlegal]

I have to admit that I used to like Raven. But now I simply say that the bird should fry. I have come up with an idea (I hear that it is how they caught Al Capone). Who here reallly thinks that Raven paid his taxes on the money he embezzled? NOT ME! Taxes are due, even when the money is obtained illegally. Since he pled guilty we have record that the money was indeed imbezzled. Do you think he filed a modified return to pay taxes on that money? NO. Isn't tax evasion another FELONY! Isn't that survivor guy facing 6 years in jail. I would settle for 6 years on tax evasion. By then, we would have him for murder too!
This is definitely a thought, R&G...At least they'd know where he was, huh?:behindbar

[Jenifred]

Great idea, R&G.

Hey, LE!! You reading this? Get the piece of crap in jail on tax evasion!!

[terminatrixator]

I have to admit that I used to like Raven. But now I simply say that the bird should fry. I have come up with an idea (I hear that it is how they caught Al Capone). Who here reallly thinks that Raven paid his taxes on the money he embezzled? NOT ME! Taxes are due, even when the money is obtained illegally. Since he pled guilty we have record that the money was indeed imbezzled. Do you think he filed a modified return to pay taxes on that money? NO. Isn't tax evasion another FELONY! Isn't that survivor guy facing 6 years in jail. I would settle for 6 years on tax evasion. By then, we would have him for murder too! Great Idea,R & G!!

Question for everyone - Does anyone honestly believed he paid back ONE cent of that embezzlement money yet? I wonder what time frame he has to pay it back? Me thinks we need to do more investigating on this subject.

Welcome to the Forum Rainbows, we need more like you, and it's great that more and more people are coming out now, it's very appreciated having more people that are Seeking Justice for Janet and her precious unborn child.

[terminatrixator]

OOOh My, Lookee Here:

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f3949a.pdf

Where Do You Report Suspected Tax Fraud Activity?

If you suspect or know of an individual or company that is not complying with the tax laws, you may report this activity by completing Form 3949-A (http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f3949a.pdf). You may fill out Form 3949-A online, print it and mail it to:

Internal Revenue Service
Fresno, CA 93888

If you do not wish to use Form 3949-A, you may send a letter to the address above. Please include the following information, if available:



Name and address of the person you are reporting
The taxpayer identification number (social security number for an individual or employer identification number for a business)
A brief description of the alleged violation, including how you became aware of or obtained the information
The years involved
The estimated dollar amount of any unreported income
Your name, address and daytime telephone number
Although you are not required to identify yourself, it is helpful to do so. Your identity can be kept confidential. You may also be entitled to a reward.

Frequently Asked Questions - 1.13 IRS Procedures: Reporting Fraud (http://www.irs.gov/faqs/faq1-13.html)

[terminatrixator]

I obviously cannot post his social security number here, but that's not the hardest thing to find out.

[terminatrixator]

http://www.hillsboroughchamber.com/
In 2005, the Business of the Year was Sports Endeavors, Business Person of the Year was Anjan Desai of the Holiday Inn Express, and the inaugural Helping Hand Award went to Shannon Talley-Bradsher and Lori Brown of Relay for Life.

Wow, thought many of you would be interested in what I found online.


I would like to Congratulate the owners and the employees of Sports Endeavors for being named Business of the Year through the Hillsborough Chamber of Commerce. You had a tough year, and I'm sure you all feel the loss of Janet also.

[lauriej]

OOOh My, Lookee Here:

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f3949a.pdf

Where Do You Report Suspected Tax Fraud Activity?

If you suspect or know of an individual or company that is not complying with the tax laws, you may report this activity by completing Form 3949-A (http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f3949a.pdf). You may fill out Form 3949-A online, print it and mail it to:


Internal Revenue Service

Fresno, CA 93888


If you do not wish to use Form 3949-A, you may send a letter to the address above. Please include the following information, if available:




Name and address of the person you are reporting
The taxpayer identification number (social security number for an individual or employer identification number for a business)
A brief description of the alleged violation, including how you became aware of or obtained the information
The years involved
The estimated dollar amount of any unreported income
Your name, address and daytime telephone number
Although you are not required to identify yourself, it is helpful to do so. Your identity can be kept confidential. You may also be entitled to a reward.

Frequently Asked Questions - 1.13 IRS Procedures: Reporting Fraud (http://www.irs.gov/faqs/faq1-13.html)
..i rather doubt that raven has paid back a single cent of the embezzled $$$'s........much less paid his appropriate taxes...........

..if he's 'coughInnocentcough'.......(as if ) you'd think he'd be so grateful to the sund-carrington foundation for coming forth with reward $$$$'s......AND in doing so, bringing the case back to the forefront-------------something raven/and family NEVER managed to accomplish in the last 9 months..........

..raven-----------did you really think it would just go away ? that NO-ONE would care about janet ???

..surprise! MANY people care............(as you and your family do i'm sure........) don't worry, none of us will rest until we see the murderer brought to justice.

[JerseyGirl]

It was almost as if LE wanted people to think about that night and remember where they were at those times to see if anything jogged their memory. This is the first time I have seen an actual description of the car driven by Raven and the soccer game named.I think that it is VERY telling that in mentioning the reward for information, they described Raven's car, his alleged start and end points of travel, and his alleged start and end times of travel. You'd think that in a request for information in conjunction with a reward, they'd retell the details of where the crime happened, not all of this descriptive stuff about the victim's spouse. Unless ...

Yep, they want to jog people's memories about Raven and his whereabouts.

[JerseyGirl]

..what time did the hometeacher(s) arrive ? and leave ? ( surely they could shed some light on whether kaiden was awake or asleep while they were there.)Very good point ... I bet if it was a hometeaching night, Kaiden would have been asleep prior to the lesson. Can't get much teaching/learning done with a 6 month-old around. Of course, this is just an assumption but it makes the most sense that he would have been in bed prior to that lesson.

As you said, the hometeachers would know whether or not Kaiden was asleep by the time they left or even when they arrived. I'm sure LE has asked that and if not ... do you think they've recoginized this as a hint? lol.

[JerseyGirl]

Question for everyone - Does anyone honestly believed he paid back ONE cent of that embezzlement money yet? I wonder what time frame he has to pay it back? Me thinks we need to do more investigating on this subject.Raven knew a LONG time ago that he was going to be required to pay back that money. I bet he knew it before Janet's murder even. I think that he realized that that $9,000 plus costs was just going to be added to the growing mountain of debt and responsibility that he was accumulating and for which he was having increasing difficulty paying. I think also that his lawyer probably told him the ramifications of NOT paying this money back as opposed to the apparent lack of consequences for not paying things like rent.

This guy's working PART-TIME and probably collecting every single piece of government assistance for which he can qualify. He's the biggest scheister in the world. I think he's paying back that money and I think he's paying it back quickly. I think it might even be paid in full by now. Clearly he's got the money to pay it; what else has he had to pay for? I do think it's worth further investigating but I would tend to believe that this is one of the first things that Raven did with the benefit of all of the hand-outs. Not because it was the right thing to do but because he had to do it. Would he even qualify for all of those free government hand-outs without paying back this money?

[JerseyGirl]

I have to admit that I used to like Raven. But now I simply say that the bird should fry. I have come up with an idea (I hear that it is how they caught Al Capone). Who here reallly thinks that Raven paid his taxes on the money he embezzled? NOT ME! Taxes are due, even when the money is obtained illegally. Since he pled guilty we have record that the money was indeed imbezzled. Do you think he filed a modified return to pay taxes on that money? NO. Isn't tax evasion another FELONY! Isn't that survivor guy facing 6 years in jail. I would settle for 6 years on tax evasion. By then, we would have him for murder too!Welcome to the forum, R&G! What a pleasant surprise to see a new face here! I'm looking forward to more of your ideas ... the one above is excellent. 6 years would be a heck of a lot of time for LE to put together a case to keep him behind bars for good.

[RainbowsAndGumdrops]

[QUOTE=JerseyGirl] Clearly he's got the money to pay it; what else has he had to pay for?

Don't forget that he is a big boy with big toys to pay for.

[BirdHunter]

Raven knew a LONG time ago that he was going to be required to pay back that money. I bet he knew it before Janet's murder even. I think that he realized that that $9,000 plus costs was just going to be added to the growing mountain of debt and responsibility that he was accumulating and for which he was having increasing difficulty paying. I think also that his lawyer probably told him the ramifications of NOT paying this money back as opposed to the apparent lack of consequences for not paying things like rent.

This guy's working PART-TIME and probably collecting every single piece of government assistance for which he can qualify. He's the biggest scheister in the world. I think he's paying back that money and I think he's paying it back quickly. I think it might even be paid in full by now. Clearly he's got the money to pay it; what else has he had to pay for? I do think it's worth further investigating but I would tend to believe that this is one of the first things that Raven did with the benefit of all of the hand-outs. Not because it was the right thing to do but because he had to do it. Would he even qualify for all of those free government hand-outs without paying back this money?Now this is uncomfirmed but, I talked to a couple of people at ES who have the ability to be in the know and they seem to think the ES has not yet received one dime towards the embezzlement pay back. I don't know how long Raven has to pay this money back, but he doesn't seem to be in a big hurry.

[Moxie]

Now this is uncomfirmed but, I talked to a couple of people at ES who have the ability to be in the know and they seem to think the ES has not yet received one dime towards the embezzlement pay back. I don't know how long Raven has to pay this money back, but he doesn't seem to be in a big hurry.
Hmmm... That is interesting. I think we need to let his parole officer know that Raven isn't paying money back yet to ES.

Maybe that is why Raven only works at a bike shop - full time or part time, that's not a high paying job. Raven is probably saying he can't afford to pay back the money due to lack of income.

We'll have to clue in the parole officer about all of his trips, travel and fun activities.

Raven always seems to have enough money to do what he wants to do.

[terminatrixator]

I heard the unconfirmed rumor that he has not paid back anything yet, I would think he should be trying to work full-time at the Bike shop (really the only place that would hire him) before his mommy has to bail him out and start trying more little "Get Rich Schemes".

[JerseyGirl]

Don't forget that he is a big boy with big toys to pay for.True but I'm thinking that the survivor benefits must be covering that because surely someone that has a lot of bills to pay wouldn't be able to make it off of part-time bike boy wages.

If he doesn't pay back the embezzled money, wouldn't he be in violation of probation? With a suspended sentence, wouldn't that land his cute little butt in jail? That alone would be reason enough to pay it back - whether he wants to or not.

[JerseyGirl]

Maybe that is why Raven only works at a bike shop - full time or part time, that's not a high paying job. Raven is probably saying he can't afford to pay back the money due to lack of income.But I don't think that that would be a reasonable excuse, would it? If he's required to pay, then he's required to pay, I thought. I'm sure that they wouldn't force him to repay it so quickly that he'd end up living in the street with his son or that he'd be unable to afford to feed himself. They would work out a payment plan if necessary but hearing that a part-time bike boy can't afford to pay back what he stole ... I just don't think that it's that easy to get away with not paying. If he was unable to afford it, it seems to me the first recommendation from the PO would be "Get a full-time job".

In any case, I think you're right, Moxie ... I think that perhaps his probation officer should be tipped off. While so many families are working full-time and beyond to simply put dinners on the table, this guy is working part-time and not even paying back what's required to keep him out of jail? If this is true, my guess is that his PO, just like so many others, is drowning in his case load, and just hasn't caught up with Raven yet. At the same time, to not pay and to continue to work only part-time, take trips on every whim, and collect benefits from here, there, and everywhere - Raven's thumbing his nose at everyone, and behaving remarkably like the sociopath and pyschopath that terminatrixator has introduced us to in her posts.

[SouthEastSleuth]

But I don't think that that would be a reasonable excuse, would it? If he's required to pay, then he's required to pay, I thought. I'm sure that they wouldn't force him to repay it so quickly that he'd end up living in the street with his son or that he'd be unable to afford to feed himself. They would work out a payment plan if necessary but hearing that a part-time bike boy can't afford to pay back what he stole ... I just don't think that it's that easy to get away with not paying. If he was unable to afford it, it seems to me the first recommendation from the PO would be "Get a full-time job".

In any case, I think you're right, Moxie ... I think that perhaps his probation officer should be tipped off. While so many families are working full-time and beyond to simply put dinners on the table, this guy is working part-time and not even paying back what's required to keep him out of jail? If this is true, my guess is that his PO, just like so many others, is drowning in his case load, and just hasn't caught up with Raven yet. At the same time, to not pay and to continue to work only part-time, take trips on every whim, and collect benefits from here, there, and everywhere - Raven's thumbing his nose at everyone, and behaving remarkably like the sociopath and pyschopath that terminatrixator has introduced us to in her posts.
Totally agree! I would love to know the exact terms of probation, and, the logisitics involved in the restitution, for sure! Surely something as basic as WORKING and paying restitution would be part of his probation requirements?

And accordingly, something Term stated regarding the IRS made me think of another thing as well - it's tax season now - wonder what's going on with Raven's income taxes from last year. We know, more or less, that in 2005 Raven himself has worked very little, a few random jobs here and there. We also know that Janet was employed full-time at Martin Marietta. My guess is that it's safe to assume there would be an income tax refund, at least of some amount, coming, based on Janet's income if nothing else.

That said - I wonder, is it possible for a state to garnish a refund for unpaid restitution? And, as was pointed out in an earlier post, there could possibly also be some shadiness with regards to the IRS and the value of the embezzled goods - with that said, if the IRS knows about these things, makes you wonder - a refund check might not even arrive at Heather Ridge in Sandy, Utah

[JerseyGirl]

My guess is that it's safe to assume there would be an income tax refund, at least of some amount, coming, based on Janet's income if nothing else.What happens to a tax refund when someone is murdered? Is Raven entitled to that money? As far as we know, he hasn't been cleared of his wife's murder - so just as an insurance company probably wouldn't pay out until a case is "resolved", does the IRS work the same way?

[Jenifred]

What happens to a tax refund when someone is murdered? Is Raven entitled to that money? As far as we know, he hasn't been cleared of his wife's murder - so just as an insurance company probably wouldn't pay out until a case is "resolved", does the IRS work the same way?
In all honesty, Jersey, I don't think the IRS would care. Isn't he getting survivor's benefits? Or is Kaiden the one getting the money and "Daddy" is just showing him how to put the cash to good use?

[SouthEastSleuth]

What happens to a tax refund when someone is murdered? Is Raven entitled to that money? As far as we know, he hasn't been cleared of his wife's murder - so just as an insurance company probably wouldn't pay out until a case is "resolved", does the IRS work the same way?
My assumption would be, if Raven and Janet filed a joint return in the past, Raven this year could file under the same status, but including the information that his spouse is now deceased. And, anytime a joint return is filed, any refund due is payable to BOTH parties listed on the return.

[SouthEastSleuth]

You know, in thinking about taxes and such, I went back and checked the property tax records for Durham County. Seems that Raven still has an outstanding account...

http://www.co.durham.nc.us/departments/txad/TaxDB/B/Dsp001.cfm?O=8279612

(If the link does not work, simply search "Abaroa" from the search page - you will see three accounts, the account I'm referencing as under the names of both Raven and Janet)


My GUESS is, based on the vehicle value, this is the personal property tax on the Dodge Durango. As you can see, the tax, $196.59, was due on 09/01/2005. (As a point of reference from a past discussion, in NC there is a yearly tax imposed on motor vehicles, based on the current value of the vehicle.)

In wondering what having personal property tax (for a vehicle) in arrears actually MEANS, I found the following info for Durham County:



"Registered motor vehicle bills are mailed monthly. Registered motor vehicle accounts that are past due are assessed an interest charge of 5% for the first month and 3/4% for each month thereafter. In addition, we block the renewal of the license tag until the taxes are paid in full. Enforced collections will begin immediately upon the account reaching delinquent status. These legal actions may include garnishment of wages, attachment of bank accounts, rents, seizure and sale of personal property, blocking of future renewal of the tag, submission of the debt to the North Carolina Department of Revenue to request the debt be paid from any state income tax refund you may be in titled to."

http://www.co.durham.nc.us/departments/cannonball.cfm?ID=30&deptPage=Frequently_Asked_Questions.html

So it seems that the County can actually garnish wages AND seize the amount due out of any State of NC income tax refund!

Now, that said, Durham County still has Ferrand Drive listed as the mailing address for Raven. Seems to me they would very much like to have Raven's current address, or at least that of his Mom, where he presumably is still living. Hmmmm..........

[terminatrixator]

Wow very interesting indeed, I guess they need Raven's Mommy's address.

[Jenifred]

Just a little aside here--Even if Mommy and Jim Dear move, you bet your bottom dollar that we will be able to figure out their new address too. Not that hard!!

[terminatrixator]

Just a little aside here--Even if Mommy and Jim Dear move, you bet your bottom dollar that we will be able to figure out their new address too. Not that hard!!
:D Good Deal!

[JerseyGirl]

I have a question. I've been very fortunate that I haven't had to endure such a horrendous experience as this. In the case of a spouse who is not reaching out to LE (for whatever reason) but is believed by LE to be innocent, does LE reach out to that spouse with updates on the case? Do they reach out to that spouse to offer resources for coping with the loss? In other words, does LE make a point of maintaining contact with an innocent spouse that doesn't maintain contact with them? Would that differ if the innocent spouse were to move out of the jurisdiction in which their spouse's murder occured?

We can't know one way or the other however - if Raven's phone isn't ringing with regular updates from LE, could those around him infer that that might have something to do with whether or not LE believes he's guilty?

[JustJax]

Some of you have been asking about this picture of Raven and Kaiden sitting at a desk and I was lucky enough to find it on the internet.


http://i1.tinypic.com/n2n0xu.jpg

[JerseyGirl]

Some of you have been asking about this picture of Raven and Kaiden sitting at a desk and I was lucky enough to find it on the internet.


http://i1.tinypic.com/n2n0xu.jpgOMG, thank you SO much! That's just the picture we've been needing!

[JustJax]

;) Your welcome!

[JerseyGirl]

Some of you have been asking about this picture of Raven and Kaiden sitting at a desk and I was lucky enough to find it on the internet.


http://i1.tinypic.com/n2n0xu.jpgCopied from another thread:

The only computer components visible in the pic are the monitor, the keyboard, and something else (that we discussed at great length in the past -lol). That something else is cleary not a tower. So as far as that picture is concerned, there is nothing to show that Raven was using a desktop computer the day before the murder. And if what BirdHunter has said on another thread is true, that Janet was able to e-mail with her friends when Raven allowed her to use his laptop, it sounds as if there was at least no other computer in the house with Internet access.

P.S. If you get a chance, Spanky, could you post this picture in the case info thread too? That way we know where it is if we need it again in the future. Thanks so much. :)

[JustJax]

Done.

[terminatrixator]

It's a data port.

This picture seems so much like the real Raven, he looks evil and even having Kaiden sitting on his lap, doesn't soften Raven up. It's like you can see the essence of Evil spewing off Raven. Gives me the chills looking at this picture.

[SouthEastSleuth]

Interesting article from today's Durham Herald-Sun (I've posted some extracts, whole article at link.):


"26 of 37 slayings solved in 2005

By BriAnne Dopart, The Herald-Sun
February 2, 2006 10:05 pm

DURHAM -- Durham police closed the book Tuesday on another 2005 murder, but 11 remain unsolved from a year that saw 37 slayings."................

"Cpl. Jack Cates, a homicide investigator, takes satisfaction in putting Bass behind bars. But he also knows the agonizing wait for an arrest can take a toll on families and friends who lost a loved one to murder.

The homicide unit continues to pursue so-called "cold" cases, Cates said, and "walks every lead" in trying to bring closure to each victim's family.

Cates said he was proud of the success rate of the Homicide Unit, but added "we would love to [solve] all 37" and are pursuing leads daily.

Eleven unsolved murders means 26 were solved -- 69 percent of 2005's homicides. Cates said he would proudly compare that success "against any other unit in the state."

"Our homicide clearance rage compares very favorably to cities our size," said police spokeswoman Kammie Michael, adding, "We're doing better than the national average for cities our size and overall," she said.

National statistics published by the FBI show that cities of comparable population to Durham saw a 58.6 percent clearance rate for homicides.

Annual clearance rates, according to the Michael, account for arrests connected with murders occurring both that year and in prior years.

Durham's homicide clearance rate has been increasing since 2001, when the city saw only a 43 percent clearance rate.

Michael said that the still-unsolved quadruple homicide on Alpine Road in November strongly affected the clearance rate for 2005.

"When you're looking at 37 homicides, four [homicides] is a large percentage of that," Michael said.

Michael added that police have suspects in "some" of the 11 unsolved cases, and that all of them are being "actively investigated."

The portion of Durham County outside the city limits saw three homicides in 2005. Those cases are all unsolved." ..........


Staff writer John Stevenson contributed to this article.


http://www.herald-sun.com/durham/4-697223.html

[JerseyGirl]

http://www.herald-sun.com/durham/4-697223.htmlVery interesting.

"... police have suspects in "some" of the 11 unsolved cases, and that all of them are being "actively investigated."

"The vast majority were not random incidents. That is ... the victim and the suspect had some relationship," Bell said. (finally an explanation of "random"?)

... Only three 2005 slayings are listed as random."

I wonder which 3 of these are the random crimes:

The Durham News | Around Town (http://www.thedurhamnews.com/local/story/2867333p-9324439c.html)

[terminatrixator]

Whether or not he's publicly named as POI or Suspect doesn't change my feelings.

I believe he is 100% stone cold guilty and I do believe one day, in a Court of Law, this fact will be proven and there will be Justice on Earth for Janet Marie Christiansen and her unborn child.:behindbar

[ewwwinteresting]

Whether or not he's publicly named as POI or Suspect doesn't change my feelings.

I believe he is 100% stone cold guilty and I do believe one day, in a Court of Law, this fact will be proven and there will be Justice on Earth for Janet Marie Christiansen and her unborn child.:behindbar
Really Term?? I haven't gotten that impression from any of your posts :)

[ewwwinteresting]

Interesting article SES. Thanks for posting it.

When I read it, it's almost as if LE is telling the familes of the unsolved murders, Don't worry we haven't forgotten your case and telling the POI and suspects, Don't worry, we will get you.

[JerseyGirl]

From the timeline thread:

May, 2005

07: The funeral for Janet was held at noon at the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Buena Vista, Va., where she attended Southern Virginia University.

09: Janet's family participated in a memorial in her hometown at 11 a.m. at the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Annandale, Va.

I can't remember - was Raven in attendance at the memorial in Annandale?

[Moxie]

From the timeline thread:

May, 2005

07: The funeral for Janet was held at noon at the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Buena Vista, Va., where she attended Southern Virginia University.

09: Janet's family participated in a memorial in her hometown at 11 a.m. at the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Annandale, Va.

I can't remember - was Raven in attendance at the memorial in Annandale?
Oh yes.

He was there.

[terminatrixator]

Interesting article SES. Thanks for posting it.

When I read it, it's almost as if LE is telling the familes of the unsolved murders, Don't worry we haven't forgotten your case and telling the POI and suspects, Don't worry, we will get you.
This is how I read it too, and having dealt with LE my entire life, I believe this to be the matter here.

Ewww, I tried Anger Management Classes, are they not working?? :razz:

Truth is, the classes P'd me off.

[JerseyGirl]

So the funeral was on the 7th in Buena Vista and the memorial service was on the 9th in Annandale. How close or far are these locations from each other? If anyone knows, where were Raven and Kaiden staying at the time? Did they travel to Virginia from out of state? Were they staying with family or friends or did everyone see him on the 7th and then not again until the 9th. In other words, during this time, is there any period of time for which Raven was unaccounted?

[juliagoulia]

Annadale is not very far away...just a few hours.

I believe Raven, Kaiden and his mother stayed at "The Knight Guest House" at Southern Virginia University the day prior to the funeral in Buena Vista ( http://www.southernvirginia.edu/abt/photoTour.php ). (http://www.southernvirginia.edu/abt/photoTour.php) I personally saw his VX parked there and assumed that was where he was staying.

Raven and the family members left Buena Vista after the funeral to travel to the burial site. So he would have only been in Buena Vista for the day before and the day of the funeral.

(Sorry for all the edits!)

[Bobbisangel]

These three questions have no doubt already been covered somewhere but I'm to tired to look through every thread so if someone knows the answers could you please tell me....

Did we ever find out if Raven actually played in a soccer tournament the evening that Janet was murdered?

If so, do we know what time he left and what time he came home?

Do we know what time the autopsy report says that Janet died?

I'm just wondering if he has a alibi nailed down...like the soccer game w/times.

I can't figure out why Raven hasn't been arrested. Any evidence LE might have should be back from the lab by now. I mean you would think that LE has covered everything by now. I'm sure that they have been all over the vehicles and the house long ago. Maybe LE didn't find anything. I just can't see what motive anyone else would have for killing her.

I still also wonder why her co-workers got worried when Janet didn't email them back right away. There has to be something to that. Was she afraid of her husband or was someone else bothering her???

[JerseyGirl]

Raven and the family members left Buena Vista after the funeral to travel to the burial site. So he would have only been in Buena Vista for the day before and the day of the funeral.So that probably wouldn't have been enough time for him to slip off to Smith Mountain Lake?

Thanks so much for the information. :)

[JerseyGirl]

I believe Raven, Kaiden and his mother stayed at "The Knight Guest House" at Southern Virginia University the day prior to the funeral in Buena Vista ( http://www.southernvirginia.edu/abt/photoTour.php ). (http://www.southernvirginia.edu/abt/photoTour.php)Wow, very nice building. The caption under the photo says:

The Knight Guest House was purchased and refurbished by Glade and Kathleen Knight to house dignitaries and visiting officials of Southern Virginia University.

Anyway, do we know how it came to be that the Abaroas stayed there? Did Raven or someone in his crew ask or was it offered ...?

[Jenifred]

These three questions have no doubt already been covered somewhere but I'm to tired to look through every thread so if someone knows the answers could you please tell me....

Did we ever find out if Raven actually played in a soccer tournament the evening that Janet was murdered? I don't think that it was a tournament. The place that he said he went to play a soccer game was 30 minutes away. I still don't know if we really know if there was a game there that night.


If so, do we know what time he left and what time he came home? It was around 8:30 that he left and he said he was home at 10:30/10:45, I believe. Can't remember off the top of my head when the 911 call was placed

Do we know what time the autopsy report says that Janet died?I'm just shooting from the top of my head right now, but I remember onset of injury was about 10:50 and TOD was about 5 minutes later.

I'm just wondering if he has a alibi nailed down...like the soccer game w/times. I don't know if it's ever been stated that his alibi was verified.

[JerseyGirl]

Can't remember off the top of my head when the 911 call was placed
I'm just shooting from the top of my head right now, but I remember onset of injury was about 10:50 and TOD was about 5 minutes later.I believe the call was placed at 10:58 PM. And you are correct on the times - onset of injury was listed as 10:50 and death at 10:55.

The grapevine has placed Raven's return home anytime between 10:30 and 10:40 but in this post, an article is referenced that makes his return home even later:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Media Links Only Please, No Discussion (http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=784784&postcount=29)

... Her husband, Raven Abaroa, told police he returned home about 11 p.m. and found her slain...

[RainbowsAndGumdrops]

On a different subject, did we ever determine anything about insurance. I think that we clearly said that Janet went to work while Kaiden was at daycare the day that she was killed. I believe Raven was unemployed. Due to their finances, I doubt that they would have bought private policies on eachother. However, did Janet have benefits at work that provided maybe 1 or 2 times salary in life insurance? If she did, who was the beneficiary. With this being a murder case, how does the insurance company decide who to pass the money to. If the beneficiary is Raven, do they pay, hold back the money till the case is solved, pass the money to second in line - Kaiden, or is the money just lost because of the cause of death??? If the money is allowed to pass to Kaiden, would the insurance company set up a trust where Kaiden could get to the funds when he is 18 and ensure that Raven doesn't have access? So many questions.

[JerseyGirl]

Due to their finances, I doubt that they would have bought private policies on eachother.I don't know the definite answers to your questions regarding life insurance in a murder case. Maybe someone else will have a better idea.

However, I did want to mention that lack of finances didn't stop Raven from doing much if he wanted to do it. If Raven had felt a need to have a private insurance policy on Janet, I'm pretty confident that he would have obtained one, whatever it took, even if it meant not paying rent.

ETA: Didn't we hear that his motorcycle was sold in the spring of 2005? He apparently didn't use the money from that sale to pay his rent. I wonder what he did spend it on.

[RainbowsAndGumdrops]

My theory is that he didn't plan to go home and murder Janet, but there was something that sparked his anger. Perhaps something she found on the computer, another girlfriend, or maybe she had just found out that she was pregnant. We all know that he isn't big on responsibility, so that could have set him off. My theory continues that since he always carries the knife with him...well, let's just say he happened to have the murder weapon convienent. He stabbed her, and she was wounded and kneeling when he left her. He disposed of the computer and knife, came back and called 911 stating that she was wounded (we'll ignore the shot comment for now). After all, i don't think that he stayed with her while she died. I think that he ran to quickly get rid of evidence.

With all of that said, I don't think that he would have bought life insurance in hopes of getting rich if she died - or was murdered. I also don't think that he was financially savy enough to think about actually spending his play money on life insurance. After all, all that he would have is a "piece of paper" instead of a cool toy or another great trip!

[JerseyGirl]

Your theory makes a lot of sense. However, I don't think that he would have been able to get away with it this long if it was a crime of passion. I'm not sure how he would have been able to get rid of the weapon and the computer and evidence on his clothes, shoes, hands, etc., if this was something that just happened when he got home that night.

I also believe that Raven is very smart indeed. One of the things that we've learned about Raven is that he used to participate on a web site called Rich Dad or something like that. If I'm not mistaken, that site was about investing and such. So Raven was at least aware of the concept of putting out money in the hopes of getting big returns. Sadly, I think that he was capable of viewing life insurance on his wife that same way - as an investment plan.

I personally believe that the reason we've heard about Janet being in a kneeling position is because he knew that that's what the blood spatter evidence would show.

I often wonder how much of what we've theorized is true. Or what percentage we've hit on and what percentage we've missed on. My biggest hope is that someday we will learn the facts by witnessing the conviction of the perpetrator at trial.

[RainbowsAndGumdrops]

I guess I should give Raven more credit. He did figure out how to embezzle from how many companies? But he didn't pay his car tax, or rent, or.... I guess that he can figure out ways to scam his way into money (on ebay wasn't his name something like "LostMyJobNeedSales." It does seem that he would do almost anything for more play money.

The rich dad poor dad series is actually intriguing. There is a lot of good theory offered that anyone can understand on what to do, but no "how to" guidance. The information is great for so many people, but i could see people with get rich quick schemes really enjoying the rich dad series.

[terminatrixator]

My theory is that he didn't plan to go home and murder Janet, but there was something that sparked his anger. Perhaps something she found on the computer, another girlfriend, or maybe she had just found out that she was pregnant. We all know that he isn't big on responsibility, so that could have set him off. My theory continues that since he always carries the knife with him...well, let's just say he happened to have the murder weapon convienent. He stabbed her, and she was wounded and kneeling when he left her. He disposed of the computer and knife, came back and called 911 stating that she was wounded (we'll ignore the shot comment for now). After all, i don't think that he stayed with her while she died. I think that he ran to quickly get rid of evidence.

With all of that said, I don't think that he would have bought life insurance in hopes of getting rich if she died - or was murdered. I also don't think that he was financially savy enough to think about actually spending his play money on life insurance. After all, all that he would have is a "piece of paper" instead of a cool toy or another great trip!
Great theory. R&G

Myself, I believe this murder was plotted, premeditated, and there is much more to the story we do not know yet, just rumors and speculation now, but I believe many of these rumors are closer to fact than fiction.

Though insurance is a piece of paper, my opinion is that they probably had an independent Insurance Policy taken out and I'm willing to bet that the payments towards this insurance was current at the time of the murder.

Time will tell though, how much rumor we had down is indeed fact and how many things we have listed as facts end up being nothing.

[terminatrixator]

I guess I should give Raven more credit. He did figure out how to embezzle from how many companies? But he didn't pay his car tax, or rent, or.... I guess that he can figure out ways to scam his way into money (on ebay wasn't his name something like "LostMyJobNeedSales." It does seem that he would do almost anything for more play money.

The rich dad poor dad series is actually intriguing. There is a lot of good theory offered that anyone can understand on what to do, but no "how to" guidance. The information is great for so many people, but i could see people with get rich quick schemes really enjoying the rich dad series.
I don't think I can stress this enough to anyone here, don't ever underestimate The Raven. As much as I despise him, I would never underestimate him and his sociopathic ways.

[Jenifred]

After all, i don't think that he stayed with her while she died. I think that he ran to quickly get rid of evidence.

I'm going to agree and disagree with you on this. On the autopsy report, there were 3 wounds. One that was fatal (it hit a major artery in her neck)--this is the one where blood pooled in her body. There was a very superficial wound on a finger, and there was one in her chest that nicked the pericardium (the sack around the heart). And this is the one that's most interesting to me. There was no noted pooled blood around this wound. Which speaks volumes--because if it was inflicted before death, then there would be blood there (or I think this and my medical student husband believes the same). I think that Raven did stick around to watch her die. Like JG said (somewhere in a galaxy far, far, away) that Raven heard the death rattle, thought she was still alive, rolled her over and stabbed her in the chest. Because if she had been in the kneeling position and the chest wound was present, there would definately have been blood there.

Secondly, I agree that Raven ran and got rid of the murder weapon. We haven't heard what evidence was found in the Durango, but if there was blood anywhere on the steering wheel, the inside door handle, interior upholstry, the radio controls, the dials, whatever, Raven got in that car and drove somewhere quickly and got rid of something--computer, murder weapon, or both. Plus haven't we talked about the possibility of the hard drive being copied? If it was, this points to pre-meditation.

[terminatrixator]

Completely & utterly premeditated Jenifred.:(

[NCBanker]

Though insurance is a piece of paper, my opinion is that they probably had an independent Insurance Policy taken out and I'm willing to bet that the payments towards this insurance was current at the time of the murder.
I have to disagree with you on this one. Any life insurance they had was as a result of Janet's employment. Don't forget that they didn't have enough money to pay their rent due to being unemployed. When times get tough, the first things that lose priority are the nonessential items, like life insurance. Besides, it's not even in Raven's genes to be responsible enough to actually take out a voluntary life insurance policy.

Regarding the payout, it may be on hold if the insurer has communicated with LE and determined that the beneficiary is a person of interest.

[Jenifred]

Don't forget that they didn't have enough money to pay their rent due to being unemployed. When times get tough, the first things that lose priority are the nonessential items, like life insurance. Besides, it's not even in Raven's genes to be responsible enough to actually take out a voluntary life insurance policy. But it would sure go to show premeditation if there was a current insurance policy. There could be some play in where the embezzlement money went to.....

[ewwwinteresting]

We haven't heard what evidence was found in the Durango, but if there was blood anywhere on the steering wheel, the inside door handle, interior upholstry, the radio controls, the dials, whatever, Raven got in that car and drove somewhere quickly and got rid of something--computer, murder weapon, or both. Plus haven't we talked about the possibility of the hard drive being copied? If it was, this points to pre-meditation.
OMG, if there was blood inside the Durango and raven still wasn't arrested :eek: :eek:

[RainbowsAndGumdrops]

I'm going to agree and disagree with you on this. On the autopsy report, there were 3 wounds. One that was fatal (it hit a major artery in her neck)--this is the one where blood pooled in her body. There was a very superficial wound on a finger, and there was one in her chest that nicked the pericardium (the sack around the heart). And this is the one that's most interesting to me. There was no noted pooled blood around this wound. Which speaks volumes--because if it was inflicted before death, then there would be blood there (or I think this and my medical student husband believes the same).
.
This comment makes me even more sad about the murder. I need to reread the autopsy report, but i was unaware that there was not pooled blood around the wound to the heart. That changes my whole theory about sudden rage. If this were truely a sudden rage, would the perp have gone back to make sure she was dead? There wouldn't have been time to hide the computer if he had to stay around and make sure she was dead. This makes me even more furios because I would be able to draw no other conclusion than premeditated. :furious: :furious: :furious:

I do have to revise my theory a bit, but I still don't think that Raven would have watched her die. I think that he would have run around trying to make sure they couldn't find him guilty. Then when he heard her body fall to the ground he paniced thinking she was still moving, and went to make sure she was dead. That would be the third wound that didn't have much blood pooled around it. It adds another aspect of disgust to go back and make sure she is dead.

[terminatrixator]

I have to disagree with you on this one. Any life insurance they had was as a result of Janet's employment. Don't forget that they didn't have enough money to pay their rent due to being unemployed. When times get tough, the first things that lose priority are the nonessential items, like life insurance. Besides, it's not even in Raven's genes to be responsible enough to actually take out a voluntary life insurance policy.

Regarding the payout, it may be on hold if the insurer has communicated with LE and determined that the beneficiary is a person of interest.
Fair enough.

Do you see nonessential items, like a VX, when there are two other working vehicles? Countless toys? Vacations, biking events?

If there was premeditation involved, I see a voluntary life insurnace policy in this, that was current, and more important than lets say, rent, taxes, bills.

I don't know any of this for a fact, the above are my theories and speculations, but as I said earlier, time will tell.

I do know in the Scott Peterson trial, there was a 250,000 life insurance policy, the Petersons were expecting a baby, they really truly did not have much money, and were not "well-to-do" and were struggling.

Yet, there was a $250,000.00 Life Insurance Policy floating out there, a $1,400 boat and a recently purchased Golf Club membership (paid for by Mommy&PappyDearest) yet they were struggling to make ends meet.

[JerseyGirl]

WARNING - GRAPHIC

Like JG said (somewhere in a galaxy far, far, away) that Raven heard the death rattle, thought she was still alive, rolled her over and stabbed her in the chest. Because if she had been in the kneeling position and the chest wound was present, there would definately have been blood there.And if she had already bled out a lot from the neck wound, would this second wound (if it was indeed the second) have created enough spatter to splash back on her attacker's clothing? If the first wound was made while she was kneeling forward, and the second was made after she had already bled out, I wonder how messy the attaker may or may NOT have been.

[JerseyGirl]

I do have to revise my theory a bit, but I still don't think that Raven would have watched her die. I think that he would have run around trying to make sure they couldn't find him guilty.I've always wondered if he took that time to change clothes, maybe to collect items in a bag, wash up in the bathroom. There was a swabbing done from the bathroom floor but I don't know if anything ever came of it.

[SouthEastSleuth]

I have to disagree with you on this one. Any life insurance they had was as a result of Janet's employment. Don't forget that they didn't have enough money to pay their rent due to being unemployed. When times get tough, the first things that lose priority are the nonessential items, like life insurance. Besides, it's not even in Raven's genes to be responsible enough to actually take out a voluntary life insurance policy.

Regarding the payout, it may be on hold if the insurer has communicated with LE and determined that the beneficiary is a person of interest.
I don't think we really have any way to know this as fact, at least at this point. But, I have a couple of thoughts too -


- Just out of curiosity, I just ran an online quote for life insurance... for a female of Janet's age, in NC, and in good health, and a non-smoker, the annual premium for say $150,000 in term life ends up being anywhere from $87.50 to $130.00, for a year.

That said, many couples often take out life insurance, in addition to whatever might be provided by an employer, especially after the birth of a child. So it would certainly seem possible that Raven and Janet took out policies, independent of their jobs. And, if the policies were taken out months before Janet was murdered, when they were both still employed full-time, etc., it's not unreasonable to think that they could have paid a year's premium, in entirety, at that time.

I can certainly see that once times got tight financially that paying a life insurance premium might not have been high on the list of priorities. But, if an ANNUAL premium had been paid months before, then there could certainly have been policies in force at the time of Janet's murder.


And to take it even a step further - IF Raven was truly premeditating Janet's murder for a good while, and he knew there was a policy, even then I can see that he might come up with the money to keep the policy current, knowing that perhaps he was the beneficiary of said policy....

I totally agree though regarding pay-out of ANY policy. Any life insurance company would be reluctant to pay a death claim in a homicide, if there's even any inkling that the beneficiary might be involved in any way whatsoever. If there is a policy, I'd bet money that no one has seen a pay-out at this point!

[JerseyGirl]

I agree. We have no idea one way or the other if Janet or Raven had policies outside of work.

IMO, Janet seemed very responsible and she seemed to have adored her baby. Since she was the primary breadwinner (at times the solo breadwinner) with a brand new baby in the house, my guess would be that the ten dollars or so a month (often paid quarterly or semi-annually) wasn't considered out of reach or frivolous. I suspect that there was a policy and I suspect that if Raven is the beneficiary, that that money has not been paid out and will not be paid out until Raven is officially cleared as a POI. I don't think, however, that that would have prevented Raven from asking for it.

[Jenifred]

OMG, if there was blood inside the Durango and raven still wasn't arrested :eek: :eek:
But remember eww, Raven concocted the story about trying to find a cell phone--I assume this was to explain why there was blood inside the car. We know that something was swabbed inside the Durango. What it was, we still don't know.

[SouthEastSleuth]

But remember eww, Raven concocted the story about trying to find a cell phone--I assume this was to explain why there was blood inside the car. We know that something was swabbed inside the Durango. What it was, we still don't know.
Actually, if you recall the story Rooster told - Raven had Janet's blood on him, ran to the Durango looking for a phone, and presumably deposited blood on the EXTERIOR of the Durango (the first warrant mentions swabbings from the exterior driver's door and the exterior driver's window), the Durango was locked, and he ran back in the house, presumable finding a phone at that point, and made the call to 911. And again, this is the story that Rooster posted here at WS.

Later, on the second warrant (where the Durango was actually taken by LE), there are references to swabbings and samples being taken from the INTERIOR of the Durango. And keep in mind, according to media reports at the time, the second warrant was executed after LE had questioned Raven a second time. So SOMETHING Raven said (or perhaps didn't say!) in that second interview led LE to want to look more closely at the Durango.

THE question, I think anyway, has always been - what did Raven tell LE, regarding the Durango - did he say he only touched the EXTERIOR while looking for a phone? Did he says he actually got back inside the Durango at some point? Or, did he say he never entered the Durango, period.

AND - IF Raven said he never got in the Durango, yet, LE found evidence of blood inside, well, that's not rocket science. Now, that said, even if Raven said, 'I never went in the Durango,' I suppose it's always possible that he later changed that story too, in the vein of, 'everything was happening so quickly, I FORGOT, I DID go inside the Durango.' Convenient, for sure, but, I suppose possible anyway.

[lauriej]

yep..the durango, inside and out, certa