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chicoliving
10-26-2005, 01:33 PM
Continue here! :)

OriginalJerseyGirl
10-26-2005, 05:40 PM
I've been wondering if there was some significance to Raven calling his site "Ravenstree". Nothing yet but here is some interesting information about ravens:

Ravens, crows, wildlife information - DesertUSA (http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:bUpD7l9-wvIJ:www.desertusa.com/mag99/oct/papr/raven.html+ravens+tree&hl=en&ie=UTF-8)

The raven is often confused with its close relative, the crow, but there are major differences between the two species that are apparent when crows and ravens are seen together. Ravens are more solitary than crows ...

Ravens eat rodents, insects, grain, fruit, bird eggs and refuse. They consume much carrion, especially in winter and will even prey upon sick and injured animals...

A raven is every bit as alert as a crow and possesses sharp eyesight and hearing. Ravens are considered among the most intelligent of all birds; like crows, they can learn to imitate a variety of sounds, including the human voice...

Many cultures have regarded the raven as an omen of death, pestilence and disease...

Breeding & Nesting

The birds nest in a variety of locations. In southern Utah, ravens build large stick nests in a variety of locations, depending upon their nesting territory. Many nest sites are in alcoves or large fractures in cliff walls, or on protected ledges that are well shaded. But I've also observed nests builtin small shrubs, on bridge underpasses, telephone poles and signposts along railroads. Wherever there is a suitable platform to build a nest, that is a potential raven nesting area...

Common Raven Fact Sheet (http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:Bx9FrDMn-rgJ:www.dnr.state.md.us/wildlife/raven.html+ravens+tree&hl=en&ie=UTF-8)

... With a 4 ˝ foot wingspan, the common raven is the largest of the birds classified by biologists as songbirds. They are considered to be extremely intelligent and will bury or store surplus food. They will hide their stored food under rocks or small holes in the ground and conceal their stash with leaves, twigs or other debris.

OriginalJerseyGirl
10-26-2005, 05:42 PM
The Redfern Gallery--Mark Rossi (http://redferngallery.com/6800.html)

A piece of artwork called "Raven Tree". Raven did mention in his Classmates.com bio that he enjoys the arts/museums, etc. The artist lives in Tucson, Arizona.

OriginalJerseyGirl
10-26-2005, 06:18 PM
Joshua Tree NP (http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:nAJaBN1P0fkJ:www.nps.gov/jotr/nature/animals/birds/ravens/ravens.html+ravens+tree&hl=en&ie=UTF-8)

... Ravens were uncommon in the California deserts in the first half of the 20th century; wildlife biologists now estimate that raven populations have increased here by approximately 1000 percent in the last 35 years. How has this happened? Although the question cannot be answered with any finality, much of the raven’s success seems to hinge on its innate intelligence and its ability to exploit conditions provided by human habitation. Wherever people are, ravens thrive. They are world-class opportunists...

Even before recorded history, Native Americans told many stories about the raven, the majority of which characterized it as a mischievous and clever animal...

These birds are very gregarious and sometimes form groups composed of as many as one hundred individuals. Their ability to produce a wide range of sounds may attest to a sophisticated avian vocabulary that, although largely impenetrable to humans, allows them to express themselves and communicate a vast amount of information crucial to their survival...

Ravens are neither predators nor scavengers—they are both. Some of their energy income is collected through predation while another portion is obtained by scavenging, but when people unwittingly provide them with fast food in the form of dog chow or shredded fishheads, why should they bother to hunt for a gourmet meal? They’re shrewd enough to grab what they can, when they can. And grab they do...

OriginalJerseyGirl
10-26-2005, 06:23 PM
Crow City (http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:6mjCe3o3wc4J:www.crowcity.co.uk/info/raven.html+ravens+tree&hl=en&ie=UTF-8)
... There are many tales from antiquity to the present day about the wisdom and cunning of the raven. The raven who wished for a drink when the water was too low in the tank is an example; he collected stones from nearby and dropped them into the tank, thus heightening the level of the water. And it was not the dove but the raven whom Noah first sent forth from the ark to spy for land. The raven did not return, however, since it was too busy feeding on the floating corpses of the drowned ...

terminatrixator
10-26-2005, 07:09 PM
Wow, JG, great information, seems like he was named correctly, as he is The Raven.

OriginalJerseyGirl
10-26-2005, 08:57 PM
The Hotcâk Arrival Myth (http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:jl7mWa1m3ekJ:hotcakencyclopedia.com/ho.HotcankArrivalMyth.html+menominee+raven&hl=en&ie=UTF-8)

Tells a brief story followed by this commentary:

This story probably originated within the Bear Clan. In version 3 (http://hotcakencyclopedia.com/ho.BearClanOriginMyth.html#anchor266476) of the Bear Clan Origin Myth, the founders of the clan changed into ravens (crows) as they were crossing the waters. When they arrived on land, they changed back into bears. Because they changed twice, they were held to have greater power. [2] It may also be of interest that a raven is included as one of the items of the Thunderbird Warbundle. [3] The first man to land and to be recognized as chief would be expected to be a member of the Thunderbird Clan, as the chief is always drawn from that clan...

ewwwinteresting
10-26-2005, 08:58 PM
Raven, raven sitting in his tree
cheating, lying and committing felonies
First comes probation
Then comes an arrest
Then comes the color orange, which suits you best!

OriginalJerseyGirl
10-26-2005, 09:03 PM
"Raven" is part of the Thunder phratry.

The Menominee clan system is an example of the sophistication and culture found throughout early tribal groups in the Americas. In the system, each phratry was an excellent source of expertise and knowledge, in specific areas. Based on these areas, each one performed a specific duty:

Bear - Speakers and keepers of the law.

Thunderers - Freedom and justice.

Moose - Community or individual security.

Crane- Architecture, construction, and art.

Wolf - Hunting and gathering.

lauriej
10-27-2005, 02:43 AM
..good digging Jersey.........

"Even before recorded history, Native Americans told many stories about the raven, the majority of which characterized it as a mischievous and clever animal..."

.....mischievious? i'm sure he thinks so.... clever ? guess we'll see.

lauriej
10-27-2005, 03:57 AM
terminatrixator (http://websleuths.com/forums/member.php?u=6009) http://websleuths.com/forums/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif vbmenu_register("postmenu_860234", true);
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 274


Boy & Girl
Welcome SimonSays,

Boy marries, girl, girl, finds out her husband is cheating, girl find outs she's pregnant, girl has baby, boy probably cheats more, boy spends all his money on toys, boy doesn't pay his bills, boy buys more toys, boy talks about his knife collection, boy lies, boy cheats, boy embezzles from his firm, boy gets fired, boy can't keep a job, girl finds out she's expecting a baby, girl is a mother of a 6-month old child, girl is beautiful, girl is smart, girl is good, boy writes about changes coming up in his life, next day girl is brutaly murdered along with her unborn child, boy tells LE girl hurt, boy tells LE girl shot, girl died of multiple stab wounds, boy tells people girl committed suicide, boy tells people she died, boy doesn't ask public for information, boy's family starts a trust fund day after MURDER in another state, boy takes child and moves to other state, boy doesn't contact LE regarding girl's murder, boy finally goes to court on embezzlement charges, boy tells people it was misdemeanor, boy lied, boy is a convicted felon, boy plays soccer, boy takes online classes, boy goes to singles functions, boy travels, boy pawns his motherless child on others, boy has anger issues, boy out walking the streets, playing with his toys, working part-time jobs, boy lies on resumes, boy likes lying, denying, and snivelling, boy is murderer, girl and baby are gone, boy is bad, bad person.

Not the End!




...i didn't take the post 'lightly' or as 'humourous' ............but, in a nut-shell, there you have it.......

..for those new to the case----------excellent summation.......( but do click on the threads and read more.............interesting stuff..)

..Welcome SimonSays! a new prospective is always refreshing, please post your thoughts.......:)

..( i'm not able to post/read here as much as i'd like to these days----------my hats off to those of you 'hard at it, and continuing on in the name of justice")..hopefully, we WILL see an arrest one of these days, or WAS this the perfect murder ? maybe, time will tell...

Moxie
10-27-2005, 07:42 AM
Raven, raven sitting in his tree
cheating, lying and committing felonies
First comes probation
Then comes an arrest
Then comes the color orange, which suits you best!
This is good!!

terminatrixator
11-05-2005, 04:02 PM
Don't know where to post this, but the Media Links Section (do not talk) is not up-to-date. Many of the articles and stories have been archived. When a paper archives an article - the direct link is broken.

I have a record of all the articles, in order, with their direct links if anyone is looking for an article in particular.

If an admin or moderator would like me to start reposting them or start a new "Updated" media thread - please feel free to let me know.

OriginalJerseyGirl
11-14-2005, 11:57 AM
We've got 17 people that voted unsure on the poll about who murdered Janet. Interestingly, we have 9 that have voted for specific murder scenarios that exclude Raven including a "family member", a "jealous female", an "infatuated ex-boyfriend", and "contract killer".

Since comments tend to get overlooked on that thread, I wanted to bring this up here. I have no problem with other opinions but I'm really curious to know what's leading some people to believe so differently than other people. For those of you that voted in one of the minority categories, please help us to see how you believe the way that you do. What is it that you see in the information that we've all compiled that leads you to believe that Raven did NOT commit this crime?

ewwwinteresting
11-16-2005, 10:47 PM
Welcome to the forum here momx3. Finally someone that knows raven speaks out. I bet it was quite a shock to be looking for an old classmate and find out he steals, lies, cheats and possibly murders!:eek: It would be interesting to hear what raven's friends think. I wonder how many of them don't want to think about it?...especially if they are married themselves. I can't imagine any of them wanting to leave their spouse or child alone in a room with raven...that "I'm not positive his innocent" creeps up in their mind often, I bet!

terminatrixator
11-21-2005, 10:04 PM
Welcome to the forum here momx3. Finally someone that knows raven speaks out. I bet it was quite a shock to be looking for an old classmate and find out he steals, lies, cheats and possibly murders!:eek: It would be interesting to hear what raven's friends think. I wonder how many of them don't want to think about it?...especially if they are married themselves. I can't imagine any of them wanting to leave their spouse or child alone in a room with raven...that "I'm not positive his innocent" creeps up in their mind often, I bet! You know I believe you are correct here, without an arrest yet, I believe there are those of us that believe he's guilty, but don't quite understand why an arrest hasn't been made yet and are starting to climb back on that proverbial fence. I am willing to bet there are more than one friend of Raven's that is having doubts about his innocence, and are probably afraid to come forward.

I am willing to bet there are girls from his past, that he may have had dalliances with that are terrified to come forward, very worried about becoming a target or another "Amber Frey."

lauriej
11-22-2005, 04:06 AM
i don't get to this forum much lately............or online at all actually--------but i still think of "this case"...

..i guess you could say i am on "the proverbial fence"..

..i was so quick to bash and trash raven initially--but LE has got the statements , the evidence, fingerprints, police reports--------i just can't see why they haven't made an arrest if it's such a certainty that raven did this ?

..i hope that raven's "old supporters" WILL come back ---------i'd like to hear what they have to say again, now that i've had time to seriously think over the posts from months ago, there were people here that actually KNEW raven...and janet...scared away ? i don't know....

..say what you will, but i feel that raven's friends know a lot more than the posters on this board.......if THEY think he couldn't have done this ..i'm not so sure that they're wrong---------what if he's innocent ? who else do you think could be responsible ? what about the landlord? i remember his name came up initially.....who else ?

terminatrixator
11-22-2005, 07:53 AM
Thanks for your post Laurij

I myself will not even look at the fence, let alone climb it, of course, I couldn't pull my big butt up there, so I won't even try.

I am interested in other theories and really would love to hear any theories that fit.

I think people on the proverbial fence is a good thing, especially when they are like you and others that actually have something to add or can help me at least look at the fence.

Angels_Not_Forgotten
11-22-2005, 10:07 AM
I understand what your saying Laurij. This is a terrible circumstance and If Raven did not do it, then im ok with that, and I apologize for all I have said. ITs just a sad situation tht seems not to have an end in site. About friends though, Im sure some other murders friends couldnt wouldnt believe it was them either. What strikes me is that SOME of his friends are saying "yes hes capible" or some people that know him thru work/school. I would hope that if the situation/circumstance ever came up around me that not one of my friend could think me capable of such a henious crime. All im saying is that yes, he has SOME friends saying "hey, this isnt the raven I know" But im more concerned with the friends saying "Yes i blieve its him" I mean if your FRIENDS think your a murderer, who knows?

Thinkoflaura
11-22-2005, 07:47 PM
I think of Janet's murder almost daily. I remain planted firmly on the side of the fence that has " Raven is guilty" painted on it.
As far as no arrest and trying to tie lack of arrest to DNA evidence, I wouldn't be surprised if the DNA evidence is still not all tested. At the time Janet was killed, the area newspapers were full of fresh, unsolved homicides.
We also found a news article at the time stating that the NC Forensics lab was very understaffed and was in need of more personnel and more financing.
Adding the high caseload in the past year to the apparently inadequate state testing facility, I'm not too surprised that we haven't seen an arrest yet.

Then we get into the very gray area of DNA evidence regarding the usual vs. unusual contaminents from members of a household.. If some of you are unaware of how that can totally side line and stop a case in its tracks, think OJ and Nicole, or please read some of the Ramsey case threads about fibers, etc. JonBenet Ramsey was found murdered in the basement of her home by her father. The case was initially thought to be a kidnapping for ransom.

Almost 10 years after the Ramsey murder, there are almost as many opinions as to what is normal vs. abnormal fiber and DNA evidence from family members found at the crimescene as there are WS posters and forensics experts. Posters are still debating the significance of A fiber, A hair, A drop of co-mingled unidentified male DNA in her panties. I think it's wonderful that some still have the diligence to perservere, but by this point, the debating spirit has turned to frustration and a sense of futility for most people.
For example, in the Ramsey case, a suitcase in the basement where the child's body was found contained a Dr. Seuss book and a comforter with semen from JonBenet's older half- brother, John Andrew, who was around 19 or 20 at the time of the murder. Is John Andrew a suspect? No.
Because his alibi that he was in Atlanta is *substantiated* by evidence of poor quality bank video footage of a young man resembling John Andrew and wearing a baseball cap using his ATM card in Atlanta in the middle of the night, making it impossible for him to be in Boulder CO, at the murder scene, apparently.
Another blanket found on or near the body contained a pubic hair identified in the media as belonging to the victim's older half- sister, Melinda, age around 23 at the time of the crime. Melinda has never been considered a suspect. The presence of the pubic hair on the blanket along with the contents of the suitcase and the victim's other sibling, Burke's prized swiss army knife in the basement when his parents have said he was careless with the knief and it had been confiscated for that period of time has caused confusion. It has led some to wonder if the crimescene was staged by someone trying to divert attention away from the perp and to all the other children of John Ramsey. Or was it normal household contamination? I don't know, although like most people, I have a theory which uses the KISS principle.
IMO, short of a confession, the crimescene is too contaminated and the evidence containing what should be valuable DNA ( her fingernail clippings and DNA samples from her panties) was probably contaminated through shoddy collection and handling practices. As far as I know, contaminated DNA evidence cannot be uncontanimated, especially when dealing with such tiny fragments.

We do not know what has been tested and excluded in the Abaroa case, to the best of my knowledge. I hope very much that the evidence collecting teams had much more experience than the ones in Boulder CO. and that someone in LE assigned to Janet's case is active in asking the NC lab for results.
I also hope there is pressure from someone representing her personally, like her family or a congressman in her district, which we probably wouldn't know about.
Nothing about this very interesting case has been deemed newsworthy, probably because of the national attention to the runaway bride when Janet's murder was positioned to be a hot news topic.

snapple
11-22-2005, 08:49 PM
Great Post, Thinkoflaura. I do get frustrated by the wait, but you have pointed out some good, valid, reasons as to why an arrest maybe taking so long. I feel somewhat appeased by your post. Hopefully an airtight case is being made as we speak and an arrest is imminent!

terminatrixator
11-22-2005, 08:58 PM
Thank you so much for your insight and your post. It is really appreciated, especially now, with so little activity here.

I believe you are correct that not all forensic testing has been completed with the backlog at the State Testing Facility.

I also believe that since there had been a pretty big size trial going on in Durham, NC, in which Officer Early, one of the first to arrive at the scene on Ferrand, had to take the stand, and this trial being aired, from what I heard, LE is also juggling their manpower right now.

I still have complete faith that the LE in Durham, NC know what they are doing. This is not a city that doesn't have well-trained officers, and they have a lot of experience on their side. After the Michael Peterson (Peterson East) trial, they are, I believe, even more careful to dot their I's and cross their T's.

Regarding the Wilbanks fiasco, I doubt highly that this woman realized the stir she created would cause real cases, such as the Murders of Janet Marie Christiansen Abaroa and her unborn child, to take such a back seat to her seemingly careless negligent act in the media. I do however, shudder when I hear her name, or think back and realize the amount of time I spent hoping for word of her safe return.

I believe that LE will eventually get the cold-blooded murderer of Janet and her unborn child.

Jenifred
11-23-2005, 12:52 AM
ToL--It's always good to see you back here. And your post is very insightful too.

I think that DNA is going to be very difficult in this case--unless it's blaring--because Raven lived in that house too. I think that DNA would only help in proving that someone else was in the house that evening. And if that's the truth, I think that Raven would have been cleared by now--but he's not, so it tells me he's still the main POI.

Thinkoflaura
11-23-2005, 01:38 AM
Hi, Jenni,
I believe various experts will be able to piece together a comprehensive case from her complete autopsy ( which I don't think has been released to the public, correct?) and forensic testing, along with ALL of the E- trails and other proveable FUs Raven has made and subsequently tried to erase.

Proving motive is not necessary, but jurors do tend to convict based upon a proven and believable motive. Again, the KISS principle. Most jurors are not well- versed on BLOGS, DNA, or the Mormon church doctrines ( which may come into play at some point re: the pregnancy). This case seems to be pretty heavy on potential to prove motive, IMO. For example:
An accurate timeline which blows his alibi to he!! ( but alone is not enough to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt).
A database search which produces evidence and dates of multiple or large life insurance policy( ies) on Janet.
A clear and detailed timeline of his financial woes. ( We know this is proveable already).

As far as the DNA and physical evidence testing goes, from what bits I know, the presence of Janet's blood or other body fluids at the crimescene co-mingled with DNA from a second source, including Raven's, would be a jackpot. In saying this, I am referring to a blood, saliva, sweat, or urine droplet of Janet's co-mingled with a blood, saliva or sweat droplet belonging to someone else. I added urine because the bladder sometimes releases urine at the time of death.
We know she didn't kill herself, so there IS evidence in tiny layers from the crimescene. Hopefully, it was correctly collected, is or was correctly tested and professionally interpreted. These factors produce successful prosecution when the owner of the second DNA sample is identifiable. This goes back to the first statement released by LE that the murder was NOT a random act. The statement gives much weight to the promise that co-mingled DNA from the crimescene will not belong to a random stranger with no DNA on file.

We don't know if all of Raven's clothing tested negative for blood. We don't know the entire story about evidence collected beside the stream near the house. We ALSO don't know if any trace blood evidence was collected or found on Kaiden. If Janet's blood was found on or around Kaiden, but not on Raven by the time LE was called to the scene, it points heavily to his lying about what he did and when. He could very well have transferred minute traces of blood to Kaiden's skin, clothing, carpeting or bedding if he picked him up or went into the room before he had cleaned up.
In a recent murder case, blood was found on the inside of the husband's sport shoe shoelace eyelets. The crime lab literally took the shoes apart and found the deceased wife's blood where it was not washed off with bleach and water.

We don't know what testing of all the knives collected showed. We don't know anything about the co-workers alarmed about Janet, her communications to them at work or from home, to the best of my knowledge.

We don't know so much more than we do know..
I choose to believe this is because the case has NOT been a high profile case, so the media has not gotten and distributed leaked crimescene info.
Same goes for her family. They are not media hounds, thankfully.

The only person in Janet's world who loved attention is sneaking around the country, and he ain't talkin'.

terminatrixator
11-23-2005, 08:35 AM
Again, Great Post, I think you are right, there are more things we do not know than we know.

Jenifred
11-23-2005, 08:45 AM
I just hope that everything was collected as efficiently as you described, ToL. Because it would be a shame if they are missing that little tiny piece of DNA or whatever that could have been collected and screamed GUILTY! Oh, wait, everything else already does!!!

lauriej
11-24-2005, 02:28 AM
Again, Great Post, I think you are right, there are more things we do not know than we know.
..i do agree...TOL has posted some good insight ---but again----there are so many things that we do NOT know--------and that 's where i feel friends of raven come in------they KNOW what he was like at the time----and what he's feeling/going through now---------

.. 'feelings' are huge---------i'd welcome what any of his friends had to contribute , i think it would be valuable info at this point.

OriginalJerseyGirl
12-13-2005, 09:18 AM
No news when searching for "Raven Abaroa". I did, however, get results for a book titled "Corrupt Cities", an article about Saddam Hussein, and something titled "Traveling to Bolivia?"

OriginalJerseyGirl
12-13-2005, 10:21 AM
Wanted to share ...

Poetry 180 - End of April (http://www.loc.gov/poetry/180/178.html)

End of April

Phillis Levin

Under a cherry tree
I found a robin’s egg,
broken, but not shattered.

I had been thinking of you,
and was kneeling in the grass
among fallen blossoms

when I saw it: a blue scrap,
a delicate toy, as light
as confetti

It didn’t seem real,
but nature will do such things
from time to time.

I looked inside:
it was glistening, hollow,
a perfect shell

except for the missing crown,
which made it possible
to look inside.

What had been there
is gone now
and lives in my heart

where, periodically,
it opens up its wings,
tearing me apart.

terminatrixator
12-13-2005, 11:44 AM
Actually I received a Google Alert on Raven Abaroa and thought I would share with you. Besides the normal Now Defunct Myspace account which is now a sex site, which is irritating in itself, I received an alert from the December 9th standings.

Yes Raven, you are nothing more to me than a Google Alert and a monster and I wish you didn't put us in the position of even knowing your name.

Back to my point, I clicked on the link and actually Raven did not show up on there. I thought he was on Mulletproof and perhaps because of the publicity on Websleuths, they either decided not to announce Mulletproof's scores anymore, they dropped out, or they changed their name.

Just thought I'd share.

Trix
--------
MENS B
RAVEN ABAROA, REGULATERS, 8, 0, 8. ANTONIO VILLALPANDO, TURF DIGGERS, 6,
2, 8. TRAVIS WINN, SUMMIT SATELLITE, 6, 2, 8 ...


<http://www.letsplaysoccer.com/Main/Locations/TIMPANOGOS/std/MB.htm>

terminatrixator
12-13-2005, 11:46 AM
Wanted to share ...

Poetry 180 - End of April (http://www.loc.gov/poetry/180/178.html)

End of April

Phillis Levin

Under a cherry tree
I found a robin’s egg,
broken, but not shattered.

I had been thinking of you,
and was kneeling in the grass
among fallen blossoms

when I saw it: a blue scrap,
a delicate toy, as light
as confetti

It didn’t seem real,
but nature will do such things
from time to time.

I looked inside:
it was glistening, hollow,
a perfect shell

except for the missing crown,
which made it possible
to look inside.

What had been there
is gone now
and lives in my heart

where, periodically,
it opens up its wings,
tearing me apart.
Wow, JG, how beautiful and sad this poem really is. Thank you for sharing with us.

OriginalJerseyGirl
01-24-2006, 01:19 PM
The Durham News | Around Town (http://www.thedurhamnews.com/local/story/2867333p-9324439c.html)

Mapping the Violence
Homicides in 2005

By SAMIHA KHANNA, Staff Writer

Here is a list of the homicides in Durham in 2005. Numbers correspond with the map above...

12. APRIL 26: Janet M. Abaroa, 25, stabbed to death in her home at 2606 Ferrand Drive. She was pregnant. No arrests...

OriginalJerseyGirl
01-24-2006, 02:58 PM
I was just doing some random searches to see if there was any news on the case, and I came across this link. I don't want to click it and don't suggest that any of you do either unless you know what you're doing, (just in case).

[PDF] Life Line August 2002 (https://lifeforce-intl.com/pdfs/international/newsletters/Aug02.pdf)
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML (http://216.239.51.104/search?q=cache:ti72K1wTfjwJ:https://lifeforce-intl.com/pdfs/international/newsletters/Aug02.pdf+shiloh+abaroa&hl=en&ie=UTF-8)
Your browser may not have a PDF reader available. Google recommends visiting our text version (http://216.239.51.104/search?q=cache:ti72K1wTfjwJ:https://lifeforce-intl.com/pdfs/international/newsletters/Aug02.pdf+shiloh+abaroa&hl=en&ie=UTF-8) of this document.
Karyn Abaroa-Bolton*. Kathy Cameron*. Katrina Tran*. Keith & Cheryl Wunderlich*
... Kuipers • Sharon Dawson • Sharon Lancaster • Shiloh Marketing • ...
https://lifeforce-intl.com/ pdfs/international/newsletters/Aug02.pdf - Similar pages (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&q=related:https://lifeforce-intl.com/pdfs/international/newsletters/Aug02.pdf)

What's intrigued me is that Karyn Abaroa-Bolton is Raven's mother and Shiloh is his sister. Notice "Shiloh Marketing" in the link. Is this a legitimate marketing company or is this something that was "made up", if you will, as part of some get-rich-quick scheme? Also, notice the name Katrina Tran ... wasn't Shiloh listed as Katrina at Classmates.com or am I remembering incorrectly after all of this time?

I don't know what this means, (if anything), but it jumped out at me so I figured I'd share it with my fellow sleuthers. :)

OriginalJerseyGirl
01-24-2006, 10:22 PM
Okay, I found it - the name was Treena, not Katrina. But Treena could be a nickname for Katrina. :waitasec: They do all seem to have a dozen variations of their chosen names.

Anyway, here's the original post by PrayersForMaura:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - The Murder of Janet Abaroa #2 (http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=656312&postcount=359)

Originally Posted by PrayersForMaura
Ok, this is odd... I went to classmates.com and found abaroa's profile and clicked on the school he went to and it brought up his sister, shiloh abaroa... but when I cliecked on her name, it listed "treena smith" as her name.

And the reply from ThinkOfLaura:

YES, there are 2 proper surnames for the " Abaroa" children and half-siblings. One is Peters, the other Smith. Go back to the initial threads, and you will see that all of the children had either an S or a P in their names before " Abaroa".

ewwwinteresting
01-24-2006, 10:41 PM
What's intrigued me is that Karyn Abaroa-Bolton is Raven's mother and Shiloh is his sister. Notice "Shiloh Marketing" in the link. Is this a legitimate marketing company or is this something that was "made up", if you will, as part of some get-rich-quick scheme?
Very interesting JG. Wouldn't surprise me one bit if it's some made up company.

ewwwinteresting
01-24-2006, 10:53 PM
The Durham News | Around Town (http://www.thedurhamnews.com/local/story/2867333p-9324439c.html)

Mapping the Violence
Homicides in 2005

By SAMIHA KHANNA, Staff Writer

Here is a list of the homicides in Durham in 2005. Numbers correspond with the map above...

12. APRIL 26: Janet M. Abaroa, 25, stabbed to death in her home at 2606 Ferrand Drive. She was pregnant. No arrests...
Interesting article.

2 unsolved murders - beatup or pushed
6 unsolved murders - shot
4 unsolved murders - drug related
and 1 unsolved murder - stabbing!!

Janet's the only unsolved case that was a stabbing....

Jenifred
01-24-2006, 11:24 PM
Just saw on the news that a non-profit organization has put together a $5000 tipster reward on Janet's case. They showed a picture of her, the crime scene, and then flashed a picture of Raven and the baby. They repeated that law enforcement doesn't believe the case is random. So is law enforcement just waiting for Raven to step forward and admit that he did it before they have enough evidence to charge him??!!?? This nonsense has gone on long enough!Join in our frustration NCB! I think they are looking for a former fling/girlfriend/lover whatever to step forward. He's got to have said something to someone.

LTUlegal
01-25-2006, 12:19 AM
I just think there must be just ONE MORE THING they need for this case...one more piece of evidence? HARD evidence? Do they have the weapon? I don't know...

However frustrating it is for us, maybe they're afraid to have the same appeal issues that were involved in the Michael Peterson case. I just have to believe that may be the reason why it's taking so long.

My 2 cents...just keeping the faith for JUSTICE FOR JANET, KAIDEN & HER UNBORN BABY

terminatrixator
01-25-2006, 07:01 AM
Okay, I found it - the name was Treena, not Katrina. But Treena could be a nickname for Katrina. :waitasec: They do all seem to have a dozen variations of their chosen names.

Anyway, here's the original post by PrayersForMaura:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - The Murder of Janet Abaroa #2 (http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=656312&postcount=359)

Originally Posted by PrayersForMaura
Ok, this is odd... I went to classmates.com and found abaroa's profile and clicked on the school he went to and it brought up his sister, shiloh abaroa... but when I cliecked on her name, it listed "treena smith" as her name.

And the reply from ThinkOfLaura:

YES, there are 2 proper surnames for the " Abaroa" children and half-siblings. One is Peters, the other Smith. Go back to the initial threads, and you will see that all of the children had either an S or a P in their names before " Abaroa".
So basically they are walking around with several names right now, and can use them at will? Must be nice!

terminatrixator
01-25-2006, 07:29 AM
I was just doing some random searches to see if there was any news on the case, and I came across this link. I don't want to click it and don't suggest that any of you do either unless you know what you're doing, (just in case).

[PDF] Life Line August 2002 (https://lifeforce-intl.com/pdfs/international/newsletters/Aug02.pdf)
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML (http://216.239.51.104/search?q=cache:ti72K1wTfjwJ:https://lifeforce-intl.com/pdfs/international/newsletters/Aug02.pdf+shiloh+abaroa&hl=en&ie=UTF-8)
Your browser may not have a PDF reader available. Google recommends visiting our text version (http://216.239.51.104/search?q=cache:ti72K1wTfjwJ:https://lifeforce-intl.com/pdfs/international/newsletters/Aug02.pdf+shiloh+abaroa&hl=en&ie=UTF-8) of this document.
Karyn Abaroa-Bolton*. Kathy Cameron*. Katrina Tran*. Keith & Cheryl Wunderlich*
... Kuipers • Sharon Dawson • Sharon Lancaster • Shiloh Marketing • ...
https://lifeforce-intl.com/ pdfs/international/newsletters/Aug02.pdf - Similar pages (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&q=related:https://lifeforce-intl.com/pdfs/international/newsletters/Aug02.pdf)

What's intrigued me is that Karyn Abaroa-Bolton is Raven's mother and Shiloh is his sister. Notice "Shiloh Marketing" in the link. Is this a legitimate marketing company or is this something that was "made up", if you will, as part of some get-rich-quick scheme? Also, notice the name Katrina Tran ... wasn't Shiloh listed as Katrina at Classmates.com or am I remembering incorrectly after all of this time?

I don't know what this means, (if anything), but it jumped out at me so I figured I'd share it with my fellow sleuthers. :)
This seems like another get rich scam to me, I don't know but I read the site, and there's more about Testimony of their products, and getting rich than about the products themselves. It reminds me of the old pyramid schemes.

newkid
01-25-2006, 10:17 AM
I was just doing some random searches to see if there was any news on the case, and I came across this link. I don't want to click it and don't suggest that any of you do either unless you know what you're doing, (just in case).

[PDF] Life Line August 2002 (https://lifeforce-intl.com/pdfs/international/newsletters/Aug02.pdf)
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML (http://216.239.51.104/search?q=cache:ti72K1wTfjwJ:https://lifeforce-intl.com/pdfs/international/newsletters/Aug02.pdf+shiloh+abaroa&hl=en&ie=UTF-8)
Your browser may not have a PDF reader available. Google recommends visiting our text version (http://216.239.51.104/search?q=cache:ti72K1wTfjwJ:https://lifeforce-intl.com/pdfs/international/newsletters/Aug02.pdf+shiloh+abaroa&hl=en&ie=UTF-8) of this document.
Karyn Abaroa-Bolton*. Kathy Cameron*. Katrina Tran*. Keith & Cheryl Wunderlich*
... Kuipers • Sharon Dawson • Sharon Lancaster • Shiloh Marketing • ...
https://lifeforce-intl.com/ pdfs/international/newsletters/Aug02.pdf - Similar pages (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&q=related:https://lifeforce-intl.com/pdfs/international/newsletters/Aug02.pdf)

What's intrigued me is that Karyn Abaroa-Bolton is Raven's mother and Shiloh is his sister. Notice "Shiloh Marketing" in the link. Is this a legitimate marketing company or is this something that was "made up", if you will, as part of some get-rich-quick scheme? Also, notice the name Katrina Tran ... wasn't Shiloh listed as Katrina at Classmates.com or am I remembering incorrectly after all of this time?

I don't know what this means, (if anything), but it jumped out at me so I figured I'd share it with my fellow sleuthers. :)I looked at Life Force Intl and I think I've seen it before. I think it is a mlm type thing. A co-worker who is always looking for a get rich quick opportunity was into it for a while. I would never buy any of their products based solely on the fact that they don't list the ingredients, just some vague references.

munch
01-25-2006, 10:38 AM
Not sure if anyone has posted this, but here is a link to where he now works...

You can email him on the left.

http://www.canyonbicyclesdraper.com/about_us/about_us.htm (http://www.canyonbicyclesdraper.com/about_us/about_us.htm)

OriginalJerseyGirl
01-25-2006, 11:10 AM
So basically they are walking around with several names right now, and can use them at will? Must be nice!Yep, and it makes it very time-consuming to locate them online. All the stuff we've found, both on the boards and behind-the-scenes ... can you imagine how much we HAVEN'T found based on those name variations?

OriginalJerseyGirl
01-25-2006, 11:13 AM
This seems like another get rich scam to me, I don't know but I read the site, and there's more about Testimony of their products, and getting rich than about the products themselves. It reminds me of the old pyramid schemes.I did notice that they move people up in ranks, and it seems that it might be based, at least in part, on how many new members you've signed up. :rolleyes:

Niner
01-25-2006, 01:15 PM
sorry, but I'm getting into this case a bit late... can someone tell me "where" I can find the Discussion threads 1 thru 6 - ??

Thanks! :dance:

OriginalJerseyGirl
01-25-2006, 01:18 PM
Hi Niner. Here are the first four threads:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - The Murder of Janet Abaroa (http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22968)

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - The Murder of Janet Abaroa #2 (http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23661)

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - Genreral discussion #3 (http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23944)

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - General Discussions #4 (http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24268)

It was originally just a thread in the crimes forum - at some point it got its own forum and I don't remember what happened at that point with threads and thread names but I'll check around a bit.

Welcome to the forum!!! :)

OriginalJerseyGirl
01-25-2006, 01:23 PM
Here are the other two:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - General Discussions #5 (http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24427)

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - General Discussions #6 (http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25008)

We got a little scatter-brained from time to time so some of this might not make complete sense without looking through the other threads. Let us know if you need any help or direction - we'd be more than happy to help. :)

OriginalJerseyGirl
01-25-2006, 02:19 PM
Old facts revisited (in consideration of some newer facts):

Old fact - Raven kisses Kaiden "goodnight" when he gets back from soccer.

New fact - Raven left for soccer at 8:30.

Assumption - wouldn't a 6 month-old have been in bed by the time Raven left at 8:30.

Question - if Kaiden was in bed when Raven left at 8:30, wouldn't Raven have already kissed him goodnight? If so, would he have kissed him again?

Niner
01-25-2006, 02:22 PM
Thanks JerseyGirl :D WOW! That first one is 32 pages long!! LOTS to read I see! Thanks again!

OriginalJerseyGirl
01-25-2006, 02:38 PM
You're very welcome, Niner, although I do have to say ... Go Pittsburgh! :D

Niner
01-25-2006, 03:17 PM
You're very welcome, Niner, although I do have to say ... Go Pittsburgh! :D

LOL! Well I guess it's going to be East Coast vs West Coast this year!!

(sorry OT!) :doh:

LTUlegal
01-25-2006, 03:35 PM
LOL! Well I guess it's going to be East Coast vs West Coast this year!!

(sorry OT!) :doh:
Well, I love our Jersey Girl, but I have to agree with you...GO HAWKS! o/t :D

The timeline to me is definitely a good question to ponder....How exact do they have to really be on the press release?

lauriej
01-26-2006, 02:31 AM
Old facts revisited (in consideration of some newer facts):

Old fact - Raven kisses Kaiden "goodnight" when he gets back from soccer.

New fact - Raven left for soccer at 8:30.

Assumption - wouldn't a 6 month-old have been in bed by the time Raven left at 8:30.

Question - if Kaiden was in bed when Raven left at 8:30, wouldn't Raven have already kissed him goodnight? If so, would he have kissed him again?
..excellent point jersey.......! i would definitely agree that a 6 month old baby was well asleep prior to 8:30 p.m.....fed, bathed, AND sound asleep by 7 would be more like it..

..what time did the hometeacher(s) arrive ? and leave ? ( surely they could shed some light on whether kaiden was awake or asleep while they were there.)

..raven was back home by ,was it 10:50 ? ( putting him at the game around 9----leaving by around 10:30............?( judging by the place we had him playing at "way back when"..when we had a 20 minute timeframe for him to get there/get back home..)

..not a whole lot of time for a NON stranger to NOT break into their house and NOT randomly kill an innocent woman........hmmmmmmmmmmmm.......

BirdHunter
01-26-2006, 08:10 AM
Well, I love our Jersey Girl, but I have to agree with you...GO HAWKS! o/t :D

The timeline to me is definitely a good question to ponder....How exact do they have to really be on the press release?Since if came from LE themselves, and not just a news article written by a local reporter here, I would think it would be pretty darn close. It was almost as if LE wanted people to think about that night and remember where they were at those times to see if anything jogged their memory. This is the first time I have seen an actual description of the car driven by Raven and the soccer game named.

Moxie
01-26-2006, 03:37 PM
http://websleuths.com/forums/images/statusicon/post_new.gif Today, 03:15 PM
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2


I Don't Care Raven Is Guilty!!!
THIS SUCKS!!!!!! STILL NO ARREST!!!!!!



I know I am supposed to keep my cool and not say anything but I am sick of this.........



Raven I saw you in Annandale.... I saw the video you and a friend created for Janet.... I looked at you as it played to a room full of tears... and you showed NO EMOTION!! You know you did it.. I am sick to my stomach about this bullcrap. How could you do it?? WHY!! I know why, you are a punk ***** that would rather get rid of a human being instead of being a MAN and face responsibility. I read your blog. You moved around so much you probably felt too tied down... And when Janet told you she was pregnant again you freaked out... YOU KNOW THERE IS SOMETHING CALLED DIVORCE *******!!!!!! You could have divorced her if you didn't want her anymore. But you probably are one of those guys that don't want anybody to have her but you. What are you scared of? huh Scared that someone else might make her happier? Scared that some other guy will raise your son? Was that too unbearable?? You punk ass. You chose to take her and the baby she was carrying out instead of paying child support. LORD there are so many motives something has to come up.....



I bet your mommy takes care of the baby and you go out and party. You are the definition of evil. I hope you are HAUNTED EVERYDAY over what you did. DID YOU FEEL LIKE A MAN AS YOU LOOKED IN TO HER EYES AND WATCH HER PASS AWAY?? I can't wait till Kaiden grows up and asks you what happened to his mom... I wish I could be in the same room when he asks this question just to see your reaction when you find yourself having to lie to him in front of me. I bet you would stutter like crazy... If you’re so innocent then why not be more pro-active about finding who really did it?????? Why are you not going crazy trying to find who did this "random" murder!!?? SHE WAS YOUR WIFE!! THIS WAS NOT RANDOM!!!! THE POLICE KNOW IT WAS NOT RANDOM!!!! You killed a loving, FORGIVING, and faithful angel of god. And if you don't pay for what you did now, trust me your son will make you pay emotionally. He will know... HE WILL KNOW!!!! And nobody will have to tell him. He will figure it out for himself...............





"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"



GOD IS JUST

terminatrixator
01-26-2006, 03:40 PM
Family Friend,

I'm sorry for the pain and anger you are in right now, but want you to know, that you are not alone in your feelings and your knowledge of what transpired.

One person, and only person changed the course of many lives, and that person is still walking free to laugh, to fake sob, to date, to bike, to play soccer, to get money for social security and use for personal use, to raise precious Kaiden, and there are two angels, Janet her precious child, looking over Kaiden right now, and they both want Justice on Earth, and I can't wait until God hands out his Judgment on Raven, it will be swift, it will be just, it will be ETERNAL damnation.

Again, I'm sorry for your loss.

RainbowsAndGumdrops
01-26-2006, 04:10 PM
I have to admit that I used to like Raven. But now I simply say that the bird should fry. I have come up with an idea (I hear that it is how they caught Al Capone). Who here reallly thinks that Raven paid his taxes on the money he embezzled? NOT ME! Taxes are due, even when the money is obtained illegally. Since he pled guilty we have record that the money was indeed imbezzled. Do you think he filed a modified return to pay taxes on that money? NO. Isn't tax evasion another FELONY! Isn't that survivor guy facing 6 years in jail. I would settle for 6 years on tax evasion. By then, we would have him for murder too!

LTUlegal
01-26-2006, 04:24 PM
http://websleuths.com/forums/images/statusicon/post_new.gif Today, 03:15 PM
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2


I Don't Care Raven Is Guilty!!!
THIS SUCKS!!!!!! STILL NO ARREST!!!!!!



I know I am supposed to keep my cool and not say anything but I am sick of this.........



Raven I saw you in Annandale.... I saw the video you and a friend created for Janet.... I looked at you as it played to a room full of tears... and you showed NO EMOTION!! You know you did it.. I am sick to my stomach about this bullcrap. How could you do it?? WHY!! I know why, you are a punk ***** that would rather get rid of a human being instead of being a MAN and face responsibility. I read your blog. You moved around so much you probably felt too tied down... And when Janet told you she was pregnant again you freaked out... YOU KNOW THERE IS SOMETHING CALLED DIVORCE *******!!!!!! You could have divorced her if you didn't want her anymore. But you probably are one of those guys that don't want anybody to have her but you. What are you scared of? huh Scared that someone else might make her happier? Scared that some other guy will raise your son? Was that too unbearable?? You punk ass. You chose to take her and the baby she was carrying out instead of paying child support. LORD there are so many motives something has to come up.....



I bet your mommy takes care of the baby and you go out and party. You are the definition of evil. I hope you are HAUNTED EVERYDAY over what you did. DID YOU FEEL LIKE A MAN AS YOU LOOKED IN TO HER EYES AND WATCH HER PASS AWAY?? I can't wait till Kaiden grows up and asks you what happened to his mom... I wish I could be in the same room when he asks this question just to see your reaction when you find yourself having to lie to him in front of me. I bet you would stutter like crazy... If you’re so innocent then why not be more pro-active about finding who really did it?????? Why are you not going crazy trying to find who did this "random" murder!!?? SHE WAS YOUR WIFE!! THIS WAS NOT RANDOM!!!! THE POLICE KNOW IT WAS NOT RANDOM!!!! You killed a loving, FORGIVING, and faithful angel of god. And if you don't pay for what you did now, trust me your son will make you pay emotionally. He will know... HE WILL KNOW!!!! And nobody will have to tell him. He will figure it out for himself...............





"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"



GOD IS JUST
This just deserves to be copied again. wow.

LTUlegal
01-26-2006, 04:29 PM
I have to admit that I used to like Raven. But now I simply say that the bird should fry. I have come up with an idea (I hear that it is how they caught Al Capone). Who here reallly thinks that Raven paid his taxes on the money he embezzled? NOT ME! Taxes are due, even when the money is obtained illegally. Since he pled guilty we have record that the money was indeed imbezzled. Do you think he filed a modified return to pay taxes on that money? NO. Isn't tax evasion another FELONY! Isn't that survivor guy facing 6 years in jail. I would settle for 6 years on tax evasion. By then, we would have him for murder too!
This is definitely a thought, R&G...At least they'd know where he was, huh?:behindbar

Jenifred
01-26-2006, 04:56 PM
Great idea, R&G.

Hey, LE!! You reading this? Get the piece of crap in jail on tax evasion!!

terminatrixator
01-26-2006, 05:26 PM
I have to admit that I used to like Raven. But now I simply say that the bird should fry. I have come up with an idea (I hear that it is how they caught Al Capone). Who here reallly thinks that Raven paid his taxes on the money he embezzled? NOT ME! Taxes are due, even when the money is obtained illegally. Since he pled guilty we have record that the money was indeed imbezzled. Do you think he filed a modified return to pay taxes on that money? NO. Isn't tax evasion another FELONY! Isn't that survivor guy facing 6 years in jail. I would settle for 6 years on tax evasion. By then, we would have him for murder too! Great Idea,R & G!!

Question for everyone - Does anyone honestly believed he paid back ONE cent of that embezzlement money yet? I wonder what time frame he has to pay it back? Me thinks we need to do more investigating on this subject.

Welcome to the Forum Rainbows, we need more like you, and it's great that more and more people are coming out now, it's very appreciated having more people that are Seeking Justice for Janet and her precious unborn child.

terminatrixator
01-26-2006, 05:28 PM
OOOh My, Lookee Here:

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f3949a.pdf

Where Do You Report Suspected Tax Fraud Activity?

If you suspect or know of an individual or company that is not complying with the tax laws, you may report this activity by completing Form 3949-A (http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f3949a.pdf). You may fill out Form 3949-A online, print it and mail it to:

Internal Revenue Service
Fresno, CA 93888

If you do not wish to use Form 3949-A, you may send a letter to the address above. Please include the following information, if available:



Name and address of the person you are reporting
The taxpayer identification number (social security number for an individual or employer identification number for a business)
A brief description of the alleged violation, including how you became aware of or obtained the information
The years involved
The estimated dollar amount of any unreported income
Your name, address and daytime telephone number
Although you are not required to identify yourself, it is helpful to do so. Your identity can be kept confidential. You may also be entitled to a reward.

Frequently Asked Questions - 1.13 IRS Procedures: Reporting Fraud (http://www.irs.gov/faqs/faq1-13.html)

terminatrixator
01-26-2006, 05:30 PM
I obviously cannot post his social security number here, but that's not the hardest thing to find out.

terminatrixator
01-26-2006, 09:18 PM
http://www.hillsboroughchamber.com/
In 2005, the Business of the Year was Sports Endeavors, Business Person of the Year was Anjan Desai of the Holiday Inn Express, and the inaugural Helping Hand Award went to Shannon Talley-Bradsher and Lori Brown of Relay for Life.

Wow, thought many of you would be interested in what I found online.


I would like to Congratulate the owners and the employees of Sports Endeavors for being named Business of the Year through the Hillsborough Chamber of Commerce. You had a tough year, and I'm sure you all feel the loss of Janet also.

lauriej
01-27-2006, 02:29 AM
OOOh My, Lookee Here:

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f3949a.pdf

Where Do You Report Suspected Tax Fraud Activity?

If you suspect or know of an individual or company that is not complying with the tax laws, you may report this activity by completing Form 3949-A (http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f3949a.pdf). You may fill out Form 3949-A online, print it and mail it to:


Internal Revenue Service

Fresno, CA 93888


If you do not wish to use Form 3949-A, you may send a letter to the address above. Please include the following information, if available:




Name and address of the person you are reporting
The taxpayer identification number (social security number for an individual or employer identification number for a business)
A brief description of the alleged violation, including how you became aware of or obtained the information
The years involved
The estimated dollar amount of any unreported income
Your name, address and daytime telephone number
Although you are not required to identify yourself, it is helpful to do so. Your identity can be kept confidential. You may also be entitled to a reward.

Frequently Asked Questions - 1.13 IRS Procedures: Reporting Fraud (http://www.irs.gov/faqs/faq1-13.html)
..i rather doubt that raven has paid back a single cent of the embezzled $$$'s........much less paid his appropriate taxes...........

..if he's 'coughInnocentcough'.......(as if ) you'd think he'd be so grateful to the sund-carrington foundation for coming forth with reward $$$$'s......AND in doing so, bringing the case back to the forefront-------------something raven/and family NEVER managed to accomplish in the last 9 months..........

..raven-----------did you really think it would just go away ? that NO-ONE would care about janet ???

..surprise! MANY people care............(as you and your family do i'm sure........) don't worry, none of us will rest until we see the murderer brought to justice.

OriginalJerseyGirl
01-27-2006, 11:09 AM
It was almost as if LE wanted people to think about that night and remember where they were at those times to see if anything jogged their memory. This is the first time I have seen an actual description of the car driven by Raven and the soccer game named.I think that it is VERY telling that in mentioning the reward for information, they described Raven's car, his alleged start and end points of travel, and his alleged start and end times of travel. You'd think that in a request for information in conjunction with a reward, they'd retell the details of where the crime happened, not all of this descriptive stuff about the victim's spouse. Unless ...

Yep, they want to jog people's memories about Raven and his whereabouts.

OriginalJerseyGirl
01-27-2006, 11:14 AM
..what time did the hometeacher(s) arrive ? and leave ? ( surely they could shed some light on whether kaiden was awake or asleep while they were there.)Very good point ... I bet if it was a hometeaching night, Kaiden would have been asleep prior to the lesson. Can't get much teaching/learning done with a 6 month-old around. Of course, this is just an assumption but it makes the most sense that he would have been in bed prior to that lesson.

As you said, the hometeachers would know whether or not Kaiden was asleep by the time they left or even when they arrived. I'm sure LE has asked that and if not ... do you think they've recoginized this as a hint? lol.

OriginalJerseyGirl
01-27-2006, 11:21 AM
Question for everyone - Does anyone honestly believed he paid back ONE cent of that embezzlement money yet? I wonder what time frame he has to pay it back? Me thinks we need to do more investigating on this subject.Raven knew a LONG time ago that he was going to be required to pay back that money. I bet he knew it before Janet's murder even. I think that he realized that that $9,000 plus costs was just going to be added to the growing mountain of debt and responsibility that he was accumulating and for which he was having increasing difficulty paying. I think also that his lawyer probably told him the ramifications of NOT paying this money back as opposed to the apparent lack of consequences for not paying things like rent.

This guy's working PART-TIME and probably collecting every single piece of government assistance for which he can qualify. He's the biggest scheister in the world. I think he's paying back that money and I think he's paying it back quickly. I think it might even be paid in full by now. Clearly he's got the money to pay it; what else has he had to pay for? I do think it's worth further investigating but I would tend to believe that this is one of the first things that Raven did with the benefit of all of the hand-outs. Not because it was the right thing to do but because he had to do it. Would he even qualify for all of those free government hand-outs without paying back this money?

OriginalJerseyGirl
01-27-2006, 11:28 AM
I have to admit that I used to like Raven. But now I simply say that the bird should fry. I have come up with an idea (I hear that it is how they caught Al Capone). Who here reallly thinks that Raven paid his taxes on the money he embezzled? NOT ME! Taxes are due, even when the money is obtained illegally. Since he pled guilty we have record that the money was indeed imbezzled. Do you think he filed a modified return to pay taxes on that money? NO. Isn't tax evasion another FELONY! Isn't that survivor guy facing 6 years in jail. I would settle for 6 years on tax evasion. By then, we would have him for murder too!Welcome to the forum, R&G! What a pleasant surprise to see a new face here! I'm looking forward to more of your ideas ... the one above is excellent. 6 years would be a heck of a lot of time for LE to put together a case to keep him behind bars for good.

RainbowsAndGumdrops
01-27-2006, 11:57 AM
[QUOTE=JerseyGirl] Clearly he's got the money to pay it; what else has he had to pay for?

Don't forget that he is a big boy with big toys to pay for.

BirdHunter
01-27-2006, 12:47 PM
Raven knew a LONG time ago that he was going to be required to pay back that money. I bet he knew it before Janet's murder even. I think that he realized that that $9,000 plus costs was just going to be added to the growing mountain of debt and responsibility that he was accumulating and for which he was having increasing difficulty paying. I think also that his lawyer probably told him the ramifications of NOT paying this money back as opposed to the apparent lack of consequences for not paying things like rent.

This guy's working PART-TIME and probably collecting every single piece of government assistance for which he can qualify. He's the biggest scheister in the world. I think he's paying back that money and I think he's paying it back quickly. I think it might even be paid in full by now. Clearly he's got the money to pay it; what else has he had to pay for? I do think it's worth further investigating but I would tend to believe that this is one of the first things that Raven did with the benefit of all of the hand-outs. Not because it was the right thing to do but because he had to do it. Would he even qualify for all of those free government hand-outs without paying back this money?Now this is uncomfirmed but, I talked to a couple of people at ES who have the ability to be in the know and they seem to think the ES has not yet received one dime towards the embezzlement pay back. I don't know how long Raven has to pay this money back, but he doesn't seem to be in a big hurry.

Moxie
01-27-2006, 01:12 PM
Now this is uncomfirmed but, I talked to a couple of people at ES who have the ability to be in the know and they seem to think the ES has not yet received one dime towards the embezzlement pay back. I don't know how long Raven has to pay this money back, but he doesn't seem to be in a big hurry.
Hmmm... That is interesting. I think we need to let his parole officer know that Raven isn't paying money back yet to ES.

Maybe that is why Raven only works at a bike shop - full time or part time, that's not a high paying job. Raven is probably saying he can't afford to pay back the money due to lack of income.

We'll have to clue in the parole officer about all of his trips, travel and fun activities.

Raven always seems to have enough money to do what he wants to do.

terminatrixator
01-27-2006, 08:04 PM
I heard the unconfirmed rumor that he has not paid back anything yet, I would think he should be trying to work full-time at the Bike shop (really the only place that would hire him) before his mommy has to bail him out and start trying more little "Get Rich Schemes".

OriginalJerseyGirl
01-27-2006, 10:27 PM
Don't forget that he is a big boy with big toys to pay for.True but I'm thinking that the survivor benefits must be covering that because surely someone that has a lot of bills to pay wouldn't be able to make it off of part-time bike boy wages.

If he doesn't pay back the embezzled money, wouldn't he be in violation of probation? With a suspended sentence, wouldn't that land his cute little butt in jail? That alone would be reason enough to pay it back - whether he wants to or not.

OriginalJerseyGirl
01-27-2006, 10:37 PM
Maybe that is why Raven only works at a bike shop - full time or part time, that's not a high paying job. Raven is probably saying he can't afford to pay back the money due to lack of income.But I don't think that that would be a reasonable excuse, would it? If he's required to pay, then he's required to pay, I thought. I'm sure that they wouldn't force him to repay it so quickly that he'd end up living in the street with his son or that he'd be unable to afford to feed himself. They would work out a payment plan if necessary but hearing that a part-time bike boy can't afford to pay back what he stole ... I just don't think that it's that easy to get away with not paying. If he was unable to afford it, it seems to me the first recommendation from the PO would be "Get a full-time job".

In any case, I think you're right, Moxie ... I think that perhaps his probation officer should be tipped off. While so many families are working full-time and beyond to simply put dinners on the table, this guy is working part-time and not even paying back what's required to keep him out of jail? If this is true, my guess is that his PO, just like so many others, is drowning in his case load, and just hasn't caught up with Raven yet. At the same time, to not pay and to continue to work only part-time, take trips on every whim, and collect benefits from here, there, and everywhere - Raven's thumbing his nose at everyone, and behaving remarkably like the sociopath and pyschopath that terminatrixator has introduced us to in her posts.

SouthEastSleuth
01-30-2006, 08:14 AM
But I don't think that that would be a reasonable excuse, would it? If he's required to pay, then he's required to pay, I thought. I'm sure that they wouldn't force him to repay it so quickly that he'd end up living in the street with his son or that he'd be unable to afford to feed himself. They would work out a payment plan if necessary but hearing that a part-time bike boy can't afford to pay back what he stole ... I just don't think that it's that easy to get away with not paying. If he was unable to afford it, it seems to me the first recommendation from the PO would be "Get a full-time job".

In any case, I think you're right, Moxie ... I think that perhaps his probation officer should be tipped off. While so many families are working full-time and beyond to simply put dinners on the table, this guy is working part-time and not even paying back what's required to keep him out of jail? If this is true, my guess is that his PO, just like so many others, is drowning in his case load, and just hasn't caught up with Raven yet. At the same time, to not pay and to continue to work only part-time, take trips on every whim, and collect benefits from here, there, and everywhere - Raven's thumbing his nose at everyone, and behaving remarkably like the sociopath and pyschopath that terminatrixator has introduced us to in her posts.
Totally agree! I would love to know the exact terms of probation, and, the logisitics involved in the restitution, for sure! Surely something as basic as WORKING and paying restitution would be part of his probation requirements?

And accordingly, something Term stated regarding the IRS made me think of another thing as well - it's tax season now - wonder what's going on with Raven's income taxes from last year. We know, more or less, that in 2005 Raven himself has worked very little, a few random jobs here and there. We also know that Janet was employed full-time at Martin Marietta. My guess is that it's safe to assume there would be an income tax refund, at least of some amount, coming, based on Janet's income if nothing else.

That said - I wonder, is it possible for a state to garnish a refund for unpaid restitution? And, as was pointed out in an earlier post, there could possibly also be some shadiness with regards to the IRS and the value of the embezzled goods - with that said, if the IRS knows about these things, makes you wonder - a refund check might not even arrive at Heather Ridge in Sandy, Utah

OriginalJerseyGirl
01-30-2006, 08:51 AM
My guess is that it's safe to assume there would be an income tax refund, at least of some amount, coming, based on Janet's income if nothing else.What happens to a tax refund when someone is murdered? Is Raven entitled to that money? As far as we know, he hasn't been cleared of his wife's murder - so just as an insurance company probably wouldn't pay out until a case is "resolved", does the IRS work the same way?

Jenifred
01-30-2006, 08:54 AM
What happens to a tax refund when someone is murdered? Is Raven entitled to that money? As far as we know, he hasn't been cleared of his wife's murder - so just as an insurance company probably wouldn't pay out until a case is "resolved", does the IRS work the same way?
In all honesty, Jersey, I don't think the IRS would care. Isn't he getting survivor's benefits? Or is Kaiden the one getting the money and "Daddy" is just showing him how to put the cash to good use?

SouthEastSleuth
01-30-2006, 08:57 AM
What happens to a tax refund when someone is murdered? Is Raven entitled to that money? As far as we know, he hasn't been cleared of his wife's murder - so just as an insurance company probably wouldn't pay out until a case is "resolved", does the IRS work the same way?
My assumption would be, if Raven and Janet filed a joint return in the past, Raven this year could file under the same status, but including the information that his spouse is now deceased. And, anytime a joint return is filed, any refund due is payable to BOTH parties listed on the return.

SouthEastSleuth
01-30-2006, 01:13 PM
You know, in thinking about taxes and such, I went back and checked the property tax records for Durham County. Seems that Raven still has an outstanding account...

http://www.co.durham.nc.us/departments/txad/TaxDB/B/Dsp001.cfm?O=8279612

(If the link does not work, simply search "Abaroa" from the search page - you will see three accounts, the account I'm referencing as under the names of both Raven and Janet)


My GUESS is, based on the vehicle value, this is the personal property tax on the Dodge Durango. As you can see, the tax, $196.59, was due on 09/01/2005. (As a point of reference from a past discussion, in NC there is a yearly tax imposed on motor vehicles, based on the current value of the vehicle.)

In wondering what having personal property tax (for a vehicle) in arrears actually MEANS, I found the following info for Durham County:



"Registered motor vehicle bills are mailed monthly. Registered motor vehicle accounts that are past due are assessed an interest charge of 5% for the first month and 3/4% for each month thereafter. In addition, we block the renewal of the license tag until the taxes are paid in full. Enforced collections will begin immediately upon the account reaching delinquent status. These legal actions may include garnishment of wages, attachment of bank accounts, rents, seizure and sale of personal property, blocking of future renewal of the tag, submission of the debt to the North Carolina Department of Revenue to request the debt be paid from any state income tax refund you may be in titled to."

http://www.co.durham.nc.us/departments/cannonball.cfm?ID=30&deptPage=Frequently_Asked_Questions.html

So it seems that the County can actually garnish wages AND seize the amount due out of any State of NC income tax refund!

Now, that said, Durham County still has Ferrand Drive listed as the mailing address for Raven. Seems to me they would very much like to have Raven's current address, or at least that of his Mom, where he presumably is still living. Hmmmm..........

terminatrixator
01-30-2006, 08:24 PM
Wow very interesting indeed, I guess they need Raven's Mommy's address.

Jenifred
01-31-2006, 03:19 PM
Just a little aside here--Even if Mommy and Jim Dear move, you bet your bottom dollar that we will be able to figure out their new address too. Not that hard!!

terminatrixator
01-31-2006, 09:32 PM
Just a little aside here--Even if Mommy and Jim Dear move, you bet your bottom dollar that we will be able to figure out their new address too. Not that hard!!
:D Good Deal!

OriginalJerseyGirl
02-02-2006, 07:59 AM
I have a question. I've been very fortunate that I haven't had to endure such a horrendous experience as this. In the case of a spouse who is not reaching out to LE (for whatever reason) but is believed by LE to be innocent, does LE reach out to that spouse with updates on the case? Do they reach out to that spouse to offer resources for coping with the loss? In other words, does LE make a point of maintaining contact with an innocent spouse that doesn't maintain contact with them? Would that differ if the innocent spouse were to move out of the jurisdiction in which their spouse's murder occured?

We can't know one way or the other however - if Raven's phone isn't ringing with regular updates from LE, could those around him infer that that might have something to do with whether or not LE believes he's guilty?

JustJax
02-02-2006, 04:03 PM
Some of you have been asking about this picture of Raven and Kaiden sitting at a desk and I was lucky enough to find it on the internet.


http://i1.tinypic.com/n2n0xu.jpg

OriginalJerseyGirl
02-02-2006, 04:07 PM
Some of you have been asking about this picture of Raven and Kaiden sitting at a desk and I was lucky enough to find it on the internet.


http://i1.tinypic.com/n2n0xu.jpgOMG, thank you SO much! That's just the picture we've been needing!

JustJax
02-02-2006, 04:09 PM
;) Your welcome!

OriginalJerseyGirl
02-03-2006, 08:11 AM
Some of you have been asking about this picture of Raven and Kaiden sitting at a desk and I was lucky enough to find it on the internet.


http://i1.tinypic.com/n2n0xu.jpgCopied from another thread:

The only computer components visible in the pic are the monitor, the keyboard, and something else (that we discussed at great length in the past -lol). That something else is cleary not a tower. So as far as that picture is concerned, there is nothing to show that Raven was using a desktop computer the day before the murder. And if what BirdHunter has said on another thread is true, that Janet was able to e-mail with her friends when Raven allowed her to use his laptop, it sounds as if there was at least no other computer in the house with Internet access.

P.S. If you get a chance, Spanky, could you post this picture in the case info thread too? That way we know where it is if we need it again in the future. Thanks so much. :)

JustJax
02-03-2006, 08:17 AM
Done.

terminatrixator
02-03-2006, 08:42 AM
It's a data port.

This picture seems so much like the real Raven, he looks evil and even having Kaiden sitting on his lap, doesn't soften Raven up. It's like you can see the essence of Evil spewing off Raven. Gives me the chills looking at this picture.

SouthEastSleuth
02-03-2006, 08:49 AM
Interesting article from today's Durham Herald-Sun (I've posted some extracts, whole article at link.):


"26 of 37 slayings solved in 2005

By BriAnne Dopart, The Herald-Sun
February 2, 2006 10:05 pm

DURHAM -- Durham police closed the book Tuesday on another 2005 murder, but 11 remain unsolved from a year that saw 37 slayings."................

"Cpl. Jack Cates, a homicide investigator, takes satisfaction in putting Bass behind bars. But he also knows the agonizing wait for an arrest can take a toll on families and friends who lost a loved one to murder.

The homicide unit continues to pursue so-called "cold" cases, Cates said, and "walks every lead" in trying to bring closure to each victim's family.

Cates said he was proud of the success rate of the Homicide Unit, but added "we would love to [solve] all 37" and are pursuing leads daily.

Eleven unsolved murders means 26 were solved -- 69 percent of 2005's homicides. Cates said he would proudly compare that success "against any other unit in the state."

"Our homicide clearance rage compares very favorably to cities our size," said police spokeswoman Kammie Michael, adding, "We're doing better than the national average for cities our size and overall," she said.

National statistics published by the FBI show that cities of comparable population to Durham saw a 58.6 percent clearance rate for homicides.

Annual clearance rates, according to the Michael, account for arrests connected with murders occurring both that year and in prior years.

Durham's homicide clearance rate has been increasing since 2001, when the city saw only a 43 percent clearance rate.

Michael said that the still-unsolved quadruple homicide on Alpine Road in November strongly affected the clearance rate for 2005.

"When you're looking at 37 homicides, four [homicides] is a large percentage of that," Michael said.

Michael added that police have suspects in "some" of the 11 unsolved cases, and that all of them are being "actively investigated."

The portion of Durham County outside the city limits saw three homicides in 2005. Those cases are all unsolved." ..........


Staff writer John Stevenson contributed to this article.


http://www.herald-sun.com/durham/4-697223.html

OriginalJerseyGirl
02-03-2006, 09:20 AM
http://www.herald-sun.com/durham/4-697223.htmlVery interesting.

"... police have suspects in "some" of the 11 unsolved cases, and that all of them are being "actively investigated."

"The vast majority were not random incidents. That is ... the victim and the suspect had some relationship," Bell said. (finally an explanation of "random"?)

... Only three 2005 slayings are listed as random."

I wonder which 3 of these are the random crimes:

The Durham News | Around Town (http://www.thedurhamnews.com/local/story/2867333p-9324439c.html)

terminatrixator
02-03-2006, 01:52 PM
Whether or not he's publicly named as POI or Suspect doesn't change my feelings.

I believe he is 100% stone cold guilty and I do believe one day, in a Court of Law, this fact will be proven and there will be Justice on Earth for Janet Marie Christiansen and her unborn child.:behindbar

ewwwinteresting
02-03-2006, 02:53 PM
Whether or not he's publicly named as POI or Suspect doesn't change my feelings.

I believe he is 100% stone cold guilty and I do believe one day, in a Court of Law, this fact will be proven and there will be Justice on Earth for Janet Marie Christiansen and her unborn child.:behindbar
Really Term?? I haven't gotten that impression from any of your posts :)

ewwwinteresting
02-03-2006, 02:56 PM
Interesting article SES. Thanks for posting it.

When I read it, it's almost as if LE is telling the familes of the unsolved murders, Don't worry we haven't forgotten your case and telling the POI and suspects, Don't worry, we will get you.

OriginalJerseyGirl
02-03-2006, 05:32 PM
From the timeline thread:

May, 2005

07: The funeral for Janet was held at noon at the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Buena Vista, Va., where she attended Southern Virginia University.

09: Janet's family participated in a memorial in her hometown at 11 a.m. at the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Annandale, Va.

I can't remember - was Raven in attendance at the memorial in Annandale?

Moxie
02-03-2006, 06:12 PM
From the timeline thread:

May, 2005

07: The funeral for Janet was held at noon at the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Buena Vista, Va., where she attended Southern Virginia University.

09: Janet's family participated in a memorial in her hometown at 11 a.m. at the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Annandale, Va.

I can't remember - was Raven in attendance at the memorial in Annandale?
Oh yes.

He was there.

terminatrixator
02-03-2006, 06:16 PM
Interesting article SES. Thanks for posting it.

When I read it, it's almost as if LE is telling the familes of the unsolved murders, Don't worry we haven't forgotten your case and telling the POI and suspects, Don't worry, we will get you.
This is how I read it too, and having dealt with LE my entire life, I believe this to be the matter here.

Ewww, I tried Anger Management Classes, are they not working?? :razz:

Truth is, the classes P'd me off.

OriginalJerseyGirl
02-03-2006, 06:19 PM
So the funeral was on the 7th in Buena Vista and the memorial service was on the 9th in Annandale. How close or far are these locations from each other? If anyone knows, where were Raven and Kaiden staying at the time? Did they travel to Virginia from out of state? Were they staying with family or friends or did everyone see him on the 7th and then not again until the 9th. In other words, during this time, is there any period of time for which Raven was unaccounted?

juliagoulia
02-03-2006, 08:32 PM
Annadale is not very far away...just a few hours.

I believe Raven, Kaiden and his mother stayed at "The Knight Guest House" at Southern Virginia University the day prior to the funeral in Buena Vista ( http://www.southernvirginia.edu/abt/photoTour.php ). (http://www.southernvirginia.edu/abt/photoTour.php) I personally saw his VX parked there and assumed that was where he was staying.

Raven and the family members left Buena Vista after the funeral to travel to the burial site. So he would have only been in Buena Vista for the day before and the day of the funeral.

(Sorry for all the edits!)

Bobbisangel
02-08-2006, 11:49 PM
These three questions have no doubt already been covered somewhere but I'm to tired to look through every thread so if someone knows the answers could you please tell me....

Did we ever find out if Raven actually played in a soccer tournament the evening that Janet was murdered?

If so, do we know what time he left and what time he came home?

Do we know what time the autopsy report says that Janet died?

I'm just wondering if he has a alibi nailed down...like the soccer game w/times.

I can't figure out why Raven hasn't been arrested. Any evidence LE might have should be back from the lab by now. I mean you would think that LE has covered everything by now. I'm sure that they have been all over the vehicles and the house long ago. Maybe LE didn't find anything. I just can't see what motive anyone else would have for killing her.

I still also wonder why her co-workers got worried when Janet didn't email them back right away. There has to be something to that. Was she afraid of her husband or was someone else bothering her???

OriginalJerseyGirl
02-09-2006, 08:24 AM
Raven and the family members left Buena Vista after the funeral to travel to the burial site. So he would have only been in Buena Vista for the day before and the day of the funeral.So that probably wouldn't have been enough time for him to slip off to Smith Mountain Lake?

Thanks so much for the information. :)

OriginalJerseyGirl
02-09-2006, 08:32 AM
I believe Raven, Kaiden and his mother stayed at "The Knight Guest House" at Southern Virginia University the day prior to the funeral in Buena Vista ( http://www.southernvirginia.edu/abt/photoTour.php ). (http://www.southernvirginia.edu/abt/photoTour.php)Wow, very nice building. The caption under the photo says:

The Knight Guest House was purchased and refurbished by Glade and Kathleen Knight to house dignitaries and visiting officials of Southern Virginia University.

Anyway, do we know how it came to be that the Abaroas stayed there? Did Raven or someone in his crew ask or was it offered ...?

Jenifred
02-09-2006, 12:25 PM
These three questions have no doubt already been covered somewhere but I'm to tired to look through every thread so if someone knows the answers could you please tell me....

Did we ever find out if Raven actually played in a soccer tournament the evening that Janet was murdered? I don't think that it was a tournament. The place that he said he went to play a soccer game was 30 minutes away. I still don't know if we really know if there was a game there that night.


If so, do we know what time he left and what time he came home? It was around 8:30 that he left and he said he was home at 10:30/10:45, I believe. Can't remember off the top of my head when the 911 call was placed

Do we know what time the autopsy report says that Janet died?I'm just shooting from the top of my head right now, but I remember onset of injury was about 10:50 and TOD was about 5 minutes later.

I'm just wondering if he has a alibi nailed down...like the soccer game w/times. I don't know if it's ever been stated that his alibi was verified.

OriginalJerseyGirl
02-09-2006, 01:44 PM
Can't remember off the top of my head when the 911 call was placed
I'm just shooting from the top of my head right now, but I remember onset of injury was about 10:50 and TOD was about 5 minutes later.I believe the call was placed at 10:58 PM. And you are correct on the times - onset of injury was listed as 10:50 and death at 10:55.

The grapevine has placed Raven's return home anytime between 10:30 and 10:40 but in this post, an article is referenced that makes his return home even later:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Media Links Only Please, No Discussion (http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=784784&postcount=29)

... Her husband, Raven Abaroa, told police he returned home about 11 p.m. and found her slain...

RainbowsAndGumdrops
02-09-2006, 03:23 PM
On a different subject, did we ever determine anything about insurance. I think that we clearly said that Janet went to work while Kaiden was at daycare the day that she was killed. I believe Raven was unemployed. Due to their finances, I doubt that they would have bought private policies on eachother. However, did Janet have benefits at work that provided maybe 1 or 2 times salary in life insurance? If she did, who was the beneficiary. With this being a murder case, how does the insurance company decide who to pass the money to. If the beneficiary is Raven, do they pay, hold back the money till the case is solved, pass the money to second in line - Kaiden, or is the money just lost because of the cause of death??? If the money is allowed to pass to Kaiden, would the insurance company set up a trust where Kaiden could get to the funds when he is 18 and ensure that Raven doesn't have access? So many questions.

OriginalJerseyGirl
02-09-2006, 03:29 PM
Due to their finances, I doubt that they would have bought private policies on eachother.I don't know the definite answers to your questions regarding life insurance in a murder case. Maybe someone else will have a better idea.

However, I did want to mention that lack of finances didn't stop Raven from doing much if he wanted to do it. If Raven had felt a need to have a private insurance policy on Janet, I'm pretty confident that he would have obtained one, whatever it took, even if it meant not paying rent.

ETA: Didn't we hear that his motorcycle was sold in the spring of 2005? He apparently didn't use the money from that sale to pay his rent. I wonder what he did spend it on.

RainbowsAndGumdrops
02-09-2006, 03:49 PM
My theory is that he didn't plan to go home and murder Janet, but there was something that sparked his anger. Perhaps something she found on the computer, another girlfriend, or maybe she had just found out that she was pregnant. We all know that he isn't big on responsibility, so that could have set him off. My theory continues that since he always carries the knife with him...well, let's just say he happened to have the murder weapon convienent. He stabbed her, and she was wounded and kneeling when he left her. He disposed of the computer and knife, came back and called 911 stating that she was wounded (we'll ignore the shot comment for now). After all, i don't think that he stayed with her while she died. I think that he ran to quickly get rid of evidence.

With all of that said, I don't think that he would have bought life insurance in hopes of getting rich if she died - or was murdered. I also don't think that he was financially savy enough to think about actually spending his play money on life insurance. After all, all that he would have is a "piece of paper" instead of a cool toy or another great trip!

OriginalJerseyGirl
02-09-2006, 03:58 PM
Your theory makes a lot of sense. However, I don't think that he would have been able to get away with it this long if it was a crime of passion. I'm not sure how he would have been able to get rid of the weapon and the computer and evidence on his clothes, shoes, hands, etc., if this was something that just happened when he got home that night.

I also believe that Raven is very smart indeed. One of the things that we've learned about Raven is that he used to participate on a web site called Rich Dad or something like that. If I'm not mistaken, that site was about investing and such. So Raven was at least aware of the concept of putting out money in the hopes of getting big returns. Sadly, I think that he was capable of viewing life insurance on his wife that same way - as an investment plan.

I personally believe that the reason we've heard about Janet being in a kneeling position is because he knew that that's what the blood spatter evidence would show.

I often wonder how much of what we've theorized is true. Or what percentage we've hit on and what percentage we've missed on. My biggest hope is that someday we will learn the facts by witnessing the conviction of the perpetrator at trial.

RainbowsAndGumdrops
02-09-2006, 04:14 PM
I guess I should give Raven more credit. He did figure out how to embezzle from how many companies? But he didn't pay his car tax, or rent, or.... I guess that he can figure out ways to scam his way into money (on ebay wasn't his name something like "LostMyJobNeedSales." It does seem that he would do almost anything for more play money.

The rich dad poor dad series is actually intriguing. There is a lot of good theory offered that anyone can understand on what to do, but no "how to" guidance. The information is great for so many people, but i could see people with get rich quick schemes really enjoying the rich dad series.

terminatrixator
02-09-2006, 07:13 PM
My theory is that he didn't plan to go home and murder Janet, but there was something that sparked his anger. Perhaps something she found on the computer, another girlfriend, or maybe she had just found out that she was pregnant. We all know that he isn't big on responsibility, so that could have set him off. My theory continues that since he always carries the knife with him...well, let's just say he happened to have the murder weapon convienent. He stabbed her, and she was wounded and kneeling when he left her. He disposed of the computer and knife, came back and called 911 stating that she was wounded (we'll ignore the shot comment for now). After all, i don't think that he stayed with her while she died. I think that he ran to quickly get rid of evidence.

With all of that said, I don't think that he would have bought life insurance in hopes of getting rich if she died - or was murdered. I also don't think that he was financially savy enough to think about actually spending his play money on life insurance. After all, all that he would have is a "piece of paper" instead of a cool toy or another great trip!
Great theory. R&G

Myself, I believe this murder was plotted, premeditated, and there is much more to the story we do not know yet, just rumors and speculation now, but I believe many of these rumors are closer to fact than fiction.

Though insurance is a piece of paper, my opinion is that they probably had an independent Insurance Policy taken out and I'm willing to bet that the payments towards this insurance was current at the time of the murder.

Time will tell though, how much rumor we had down is indeed fact and how many things we have listed as facts end up being nothing.

terminatrixator
02-09-2006, 07:14 PM
I guess I should give Raven more credit. He did figure out how to embezzle from how many companies? But he didn't pay his car tax, or rent, or.... I guess that he can figure out ways to scam his way into money (on ebay wasn't his name something like "LostMyJobNeedSales." It does seem that he would do almost anything for more play money.

The rich dad poor dad series is actually intriguing. There is a lot of good theory offered that anyone can understand on what to do, but no "how to" guidance. The information is great for so many people, but i could see people with get rich quick schemes really enjoying the rich dad series.
I don't think I can stress this enough to anyone here, don't ever underestimate The Raven. As much as I despise him, I would never underestimate him and his sociopathic ways.

Jenifred
02-09-2006, 07:20 PM
After all, i don't think that he stayed with her while she died. I think that he ran to quickly get rid of evidence.

I'm going to agree and disagree with you on this. On the autopsy report, there were 3 wounds. One that was fatal (it hit a major artery in her neck)--this is the one where blood pooled in her body. There was a very superficial wound on a finger, and there was one in her chest that nicked the pericardium (the sack around the heart). And this is the one that's most interesting to me. There was no noted pooled blood around this wound. Which speaks volumes--because if it was inflicted before death, then there would be blood there (or I think this and my medical student husband believes the same). I think that Raven did stick around to watch her die. Like JG said (somewhere in a galaxy far, far, away) that Raven heard the death rattle, thought she was still alive, rolled her over and stabbed her in the chest. Because if she had been in the kneeling position and the chest wound was present, there would definately have been blood there.

Secondly, I agree that Raven ran and got rid of the murder weapon. We haven't heard what evidence was found in the Durango, but if there was blood anywhere on the steering wheel, the inside door handle, interior upholstry, the radio controls, the dials, whatever, Raven got in that car and drove somewhere quickly and got rid of something--computer, murder weapon, or both. Plus haven't we talked about the possibility of the hard drive being copied? If it was, this points to pre-meditation.

terminatrixator
02-09-2006, 07:22 PM
Completely & utterly premeditated Jenifred.:(

NCBanker
02-09-2006, 09:07 PM
Though insurance is a piece of paper, my opinion is that they probably had an independent Insurance Policy taken out and I'm willing to bet that the payments towards this insurance was current at the time of the murder.
I have to disagree with you on this one. Any life insurance they had was as a result of Janet's employment. Don't forget that they didn't have enough money to pay their rent due to being unemployed. When times get tough, the first things that lose priority are the nonessential items, like life insurance. Besides, it's not even in Raven's genes to be responsible enough to actually take out a voluntary life insurance policy.

Regarding the payout, it may be on hold if the insurer has communicated with LE and determined that the beneficiary is a person of interest.

Jenifred
02-09-2006, 11:13 PM
Don't forget that they didn't have enough money to pay their rent due to being unemployed. When times get tough, the first things that lose priority are the nonessential items, like life insurance. Besides, it's not even in Raven's genes to be responsible enough to actually take out a voluntary life insurance policy. But it would sure go to show premeditation if there was a current insurance policy. There could be some play in where the embezzlement money went to.....

ewwwinteresting
02-10-2006, 07:19 AM
We haven't heard what evidence was found in the Durango, but if there was blood anywhere on the steering wheel, the inside door handle, interior upholstry, the radio controls, the dials, whatever, Raven got in that car and drove somewhere quickly and got rid of something--computer, murder weapon, or both. Plus haven't we talked about the possibility of the hard drive being copied? If it was, this points to pre-meditation.
OMG, if there was blood inside the Durango and raven still wasn't arrested :eek: :eek:

RainbowsAndGumdrops
02-10-2006, 08:06 AM
I'm going to agree and disagree with you on this. On the autopsy report, there were 3 wounds. One that was fatal (it hit a major artery in her neck)--this is the one where blood pooled in her body. There was a very superficial wound on a finger, and there was one in her chest that nicked the pericardium (the sack around the heart). And this is the one that's most interesting to me. There was no noted pooled blood around this wound. Which speaks volumes--because if it was inflicted before death, then there would be blood there (or I think this and my medical student husband believes the same).
.
This comment makes me even more sad about the murder. I need to reread the autopsy report, but i was unaware that there was not pooled blood around the wound to the heart. That changes my whole theory about sudden rage. If this were truely a sudden rage, would the perp have gone back to make sure she was dead? There wouldn't have been time to hide the computer if he had to stay around and make sure she was dead. This makes me even more furios because I would be able to draw no other conclusion than premeditated. :furious: :furious: :furious:

I do have to revise my theory a bit, but I still don't think that Raven would have watched her die. I think that he would have run around trying to make sure they couldn't find him guilty. Then when he heard her body fall to the ground he paniced thinking she was still moving, and went to make sure she was dead. That would be the third wound that didn't have much blood pooled around it. It adds another aspect of disgust to go back and make sure she is dead.

terminatrixator
02-10-2006, 08:54 AM
I have to disagree with you on this one. Any life insurance they had was as a result of Janet's employment. Don't forget that they didn't have enough money to pay their rent due to being unemployed. When times get tough, the first things that lose priority are the nonessential items, like life insurance. Besides, it's not even in Raven's genes to be responsible enough to actually take out a voluntary life insurance policy.

Regarding the payout, it may be on hold if the insurer has communicated with LE and determined that the beneficiary is a person of interest.
Fair enough.

Do you see nonessential items, like a VX, when there are two other working vehicles? Countless toys? Vacations, biking events?

If there was premeditation involved, I see a voluntary life insurnace policy in this, that was current, and more important than lets say, rent, taxes, bills.

I don't know any of this for a fact, the above are my theories and speculations, but as I said earlier, time will tell.

I do know in the Scott Peterson trial, there was a 250,000 life insurance policy, the Petersons were expecting a baby, they really truly did not have much money, and were not "well-to-do" and were struggling.

Yet, there was a $250,000.00 Life Insurance Policy floating out there, a $1,400 boat and a recently purchased Golf Club membership (paid for by Mommy&PappyDearest) yet they were struggling to make ends meet.

OriginalJerseyGirl
02-10-2006, 09:03 AM
WARNING - GRAPHIC

Like JG said (somewhere in a galaxy far, far, away) that Raven heard the death rattle, thought she was still alive, rolled her over and stabbed her in the chest. Because if she had been in the kneeling position and the chest wound was present, there would definately have been blood there.And if she had already bled out a lot from the neck wound, would this second wound (if it was indeed the second) have created enough spatter to splash back on her attacker's clothing? If the first wound was made while she was kneeling forward, and the second was made after she had already bled out, I wonder how messy the attaker may or may NOT have been.

OriginalJerseyGirl
02-10-2006, 09:08 AM
I do have to revise my theory a bit, but I still don't think that Raven would have watched her die. I think that he would have run around trying to make sure they couldn't find him guilty.I've always wondered if he took that time to change clothes, maybe to collect items in a bag, wash up in the bathroom. There was a swabbing done from the bathroom floor but I don't know if anything ever came of it.

SouthEastSleuth
02-10-2006, 09:19 AM
I have to disagree with you on this one. Any life insurance they had was as a result of Janet's employment. Don't forget that they didn't have enough money to pay their rent due to being unemployed. When times get tough, the first things that lose priority are the nonessential items, like life insurance. Besides, it's not even in Raven's genes to be responsible enough to actually take out a voluntary life insurance policy.

Regarding the payout, it may be on hold if the insurer has communicated with LE and determined that the beneficiary is a person of interest.
I don't think we really have any way to know this as fact, at least at this point. But, I have a couple of thoughts too -


- Just out of curiosity, I just ran an online quote for life insurance... for a female of Janet's age, in NC, and in good health, and a non-smoker, the annual premium for say $150,000 in term life ends up being anywhere from $87.50 to $130.00, for a year.

That said, many couples often take out life insurance, in addition to whatever might be provided by an employer, especially after the birth of a child. So it would certainly seem possible that Raven and Janet took out policies, independent of their jobs. And, if the policies were taken out months before Janet was murdered, when they were both still employed full-time, etc., it's not unreasonable to think that they could have paid a year's premium, in entirety, at that time.

I can certainly see that once times got tight financially that paying a life insurance premium might not have been high on the list of priorities. But, if an ANNUAL premium had been paid months before, then there could certainly have been policies in force at the time of Janet's murder.


And to take it even a step further - IF Raven was truly premeditating Janet's murder for a good while, and he knew there was a policy, even then I can see that he might come up with the money to keep the policy current, knowing that perhaps he was the beneficiary of said policy....

I totally agree though regarding pay-out of ANY policy. Any life insurance company would be reluctant to pay a death claim in a homicide, if there's even any inkling that the beneficiary might be involved in any way whatsoever. If there is a policy, I'd bet money that no one has seen a pay-out at this point!

OriginalJerseyGirl
02-10-2006, 09:26 AM
I agree. We have no idea one way or the other if Janet or Raven had policies outside of work.

IMO, Janet seemed very responsible and she seemed to have adored her baby. Since she was the primary breadwinner (at times the solo breadwinner) with a brand new baby in the house, my guess would be that the ten dollars or so a month (often paid quarterly or semi-annually) wasn't considered out of reach or frivolous. I suspect that there was a policy and I suspect that if Raven is the beneficiary, that that money has not been paid out and will not be paid out until Raven is officially cleared as a POI. I don't think, however, that that would have prevented Raven from asking for it.

Jenifred
02-10-2006, 12:03 PM
OMG, if there was blood inside the Durango and raven still wasn't arrested :eek: :eek:
But remember eww, Raven concocted the story about trying to find a cell phone--I assume this was to explain why there was blood inside the car. We know that something was swabbed inside the Durango. What it was, we still don't know.

SouthEastSleuth
02-10-2006, 01:12 PM
But remember eww, Raven concocted the story about trying to find a cell phone--I assume this was to explain why there was blood inside the car. We know that something was swabbed inside the Durango. What it was, we still don't know.
Actually, if you recall the story Rooster told - Raven had Janet's blood on him, ran to the Durango looking for a phone, and presumably deposited blood on the EXTERIOR of the Durango (the first warrant mentions swabbings from the exterior driver's door and the exterior driver's window), the Durango was locked, and he ran back in the house, presumable finding a phone at that point, and made the call to 911. And again, this is the story that Rooster posted here at WS.

Later, on the second warrant (where the Durango was actually taken by LE), there are references to swabbings and samples being taken from the INTERIOR of the Durango. And keep in mind, according to media reports at the time, the second warrant was executed after LE had questioned Raven a second time. So SOMETHING Raven said (or perhaps didn't say!) in that second interview led LE to want to look more closely at the Durango.

THE question, I think anyway, has always been - what did Raven tell LE, regarding the Durango - did he say he only touched the EXTERIOR while looking for a phone? Did he says he actually got back inside the Durango at some point? Or, did he say he never entered the Durango, period.

AND - IF Raven said he never got in the Durango, yet, LE found evidence of blood inside, well, that's not rocket science. Now, that said, even if Raven said, 'I never went in the Durango,' I suppose it's always possible that he later changed that story too, in the vein of, 'everything was happening so quickly, I FORGOT, I DID go inside the Durango.' Convenient, for sure, but, I suppose possible anyway.

lauriej
02-11-2006, 03:28 AM
yep..the durango, inside and out, certainly piqued LE's interest.....

..and didn't LE also take the "sports bottle/gatorade-type bottle" from Inside the durango? presumably with blood on it ?( the bottle he had either to or from the soccer game?)

..i think that raven was trying to cover the obvious, while over-looking the 'small stuff'............he's probably kicking himself now for wiping down the entire interior of that vehicle, and yet forgetting the 'sports-bottle'............does it for me.

lauriej
02-11-2006, 03:34 AM
I agree. We have no idea one way or the other if Janet or Raven had policies outside of work.

IMO, Janet seemed very responsible and she seemed to have adored her baby. Since she was the primary breadwinner (at times the solo breadwinner) with a brand new baby in the house, my guess would be that the ten dollars or so a month (often paid quarterly or semi-annually) wasn't considered out of reach or frivolous. I suspect that there was a policy and I suspect that if Raven is the beneficiary, that that money has not been paid out and will not be paid out until Raven is officially cleared as a POI. I don't think, however, that that would have prevented Raven from asking for it.
..i agree.......also, i don't neccessarily think that we'd know at this point if there WAS a policy...( since the media isn't throwing that out there) but i do think, based on a few posters here "in the know" regarding raven/and family, that we'd know if there had been a pay-out.........

snapple
02-11-2006, 10:20 AM
yep..the durango, inside and out, certainly piqued LE's interest.....

..and didn't LE also take the "sports bottle/gatorade-type bottle" from Inside the durango? presumably with blood on it ?( the bottle he had either to or from the soccer game?)

..i think that raven was trying to cover the obvious, while over-looking the 'small stuff'............he's probably kicking himself now for wiping down the entire interior of that vehicle, and yet forgetting the 'sports-bottle'............does it for me.
What I don't understand is how raven could of had time to wipe down the inside of the vehicle so well that there wouldn't be traces of blood in there. And I have to assume there wasn't traces of blood in there, because otherwise that evidence along with TOD should be enough to name him as a POI and arrest him.

Jenifred
02-11-2006, 10:33 AM
Actually, if you recall the story Rooster told - Raven had Janet's blood on him, ran to the Durango looking for a phone, and presumably deposited blood on the EXTERIOR of the Durango (the first warrant mentions swabbings from the exterior driver's door and the exterior driver's window), the Durango was locked, and he ran back in the house, presumable finding a phone at that point, and made the call to 911. And again, this is the story that Rooster posted here at WS.
I thought Raven made it into the Durango during the search for the cell phone. And I thought that was the reason why they couldn't arrest him for the fact that there was blood in the car, TOD, etc. like snapple said.

Anyone got that post handy from Rooster?

LTUlegal
02-11-2006, 01:46 PM
I thought Raven made it into the Durango during the search for the cell phone. And I thought that was the reason why they couldn't arrest him for the fact that there was blood in the car, TOD, etc. like snapple said.

Anyone got that post handy from Rooster?
I knew I could find it! http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=680500#post680500
This blood is from Raven Running to get his phone out of the durango...After he found Janet...tried to save herhttp://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/smilies/frown.gif ...ran outside(getting blood on the door) to get his phone from the Durango. The door was locked...back inside to get Janets phone or keys to the Durango.

This evidance will not "hang" Raven. LE knows all of this...still, Raven has not been arrested or charged or named a susspect. He is innocent!

OriginalJerseyGirl
02-11-2006, 04:34 PM
All we really know about the Durango that night is what Rooster told us. And according to Rooster, Raven allegedly ran to the car for his phone, realized the door was locked and ran back in the house for his keys before he miraculously came across Janet's phone (eliminating the need to go back out to the locked car). It seems like a very convenient reason as to why there would be blood on the outside of the Durango. What we don't know, however, is what Raven said to LE. Perhaps he said one thing to Rooster and another to LE; perhaps he didn't tell Rooster anything and Rooster just made up a bunch of nothing simply to have something to say or to seem as if s/he is in the know. The bottom line is that we don't know if Raven actually said or did any of that or if there was blood anywhere on the Durango, inside or out.

ewwwinteresting
02-11-2006, 09:37 PM
All we really know about the Durango that night is what Rooster told us. And according to Rooster, Raven allegedly ran to the car for his phone, realized the door was locked and ran back in the house for his keys before he miraculously came across Janet's phone (eliminating the need to go back out to the locked car). It seems like a very convenient reason as to why there would be blood on the outside of the Durango. What we don't know, however, is what Raven said to LE. Perhaps he said one thing to Rooster and another to LE; perhaps he didn't tell Rooster anything and Rooster just made up a bunch of nothing simply to have something to say or to seem as if s/he is in the know. The bottom line is that we don't know if Raven actually said or did any of that or if there was blood anywhere on the Durango, inside or out.
This is what I think. Rooster never said anything as fact (except he/she tried to make fact that raven grieved appropriately at the funeral - which numerous other posters have said otherwise). Rooster said a bunch of things and then left, not substantiating any of it.:chicken:

terminatrixator
02-11-2006, 09:39 PM
This is what I think. Rooster never said anything as fact (except he/she tried to make fact that raven grieved appropriately at the funeral - which numerous other posters have said otherwise). Rooster said a bunch of things and then left, not substantiating any of it.:chicken:
I agree also!

SouthEastSleuth
02-12-2006, 09:42 AM
This is what I think. Rooster never said anything as fact (except he/she tried to make fact that raven grieved appropriately at the funeral - which numerous other posters have said otherwise). Rooster said a bunch of things and then left, not substantiating any of it.:chicken:

As JG points out in the preceding post, we have no idea what Raven himself told LE that night, as far as the Durango, etc. I've always believed, however, that some of what Rooster came here and posted, at least as far as the 'explanation' of the blood on the interior of the house door, the Durango, etc., was based at least somewhat on 'fact', and I say 'fact' loosely, meaning facts as were perhaps told TO Rooster by Raven, or someone.... One thing has certainly turned out to be true (at least true in how it was presented HERE) - and that's the laptop.

Rooster posted here back in June that a laptop was missing (I don't have the post handy, but as I recall, it went something along the lines of "dude or dudette took a laptop...."). We've talked a great deal about the supposed missing laptop, and after all this time, I suppose we can now confirm that aspect of Rooster's story, as the LE press release regarding the $5000 reward clearly states:

"There were no obvious signs of a break-in, but a laptop computer was missing from the house."

My point is, I still think within the stories Rooster told here, there ARE perhaps things of substance and fact - and again, "fact" meaning - what Rooster was told about that evening.... Does that mean these things are what Raven actually told LE? Who knows. Those stories we will have to wait and hear down the road - at trial.

terminatrixator
02-12-2006, 10:32 AM
True, The Rooster did bring up the laptop and I have a feeling Rooster got this information directly from the Raven.

lauriej
02-13-2006, 02:29 AM
some quotes by rooster:( from the "raven is innocent!" thread, started by 'rooster'.)

Originally Posted by lauriej
.............maybe it's just me, but i have a hard time seeing a simple house burglar....( what....some computer equipment? ) commiting murder......

MAYBE a stray bullet that happens to hit the target.....but a SINGLE knife plunge to the heart? over a robbery that wasn't even completed ?
How do you know nothing was taken?

Originally Posted by ewwwinteresting
:laugh:

I am not saying Raven is guilty but do you seriously think that a stranger entered into an occupied house and made it upstairs to the bedroom/office to steal something and Janet (a shy quiet nonconfrontational peacemaker girl) caught him and he felt trapped so he murdered her????
If it was a woman...she could have. Try not to be so narrow minded.;)

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Dude or dudette took a lap top. And probably didn't leave it behind to be fingerprinted.

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I DO know Janet and Raven had a laptop. I DON'T know if the murderer took it for sure. It is however a good POSSIBILITY. Sorry, I don't have any hard evidence.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by golfmom
My understanding the laptop was attached by an umbilical cord to Raven. So it doesn't seem likely that he went anywhere without it. And if it had any evidence of his illegal embezzlement activites on it, I don't think he'd let it out of his sight.
:twocents:

Raven states, on ravenstree, that he had "made some bad business decisions and that he was starting over." So, he had put the embezzling behind him...No need for a laptop at a soccer game. I think the laptop was probably at home.

Also, there was a pawn shop ticket in the found in the Durango. If he had pawned his regular computer, for money.(to buy food and diapers for his son and wife that he loved very much.) Then his laptop might have become the main computer for the family. Hummmm. The possibilities.

OriginalJerseyGirl
02-13-2006, 07:35 AM
My point is, I still think within the stories Rooster told here, there ARE perhaps things of substance and fact - and again, "fact" meaning - what Rooster was told about that evening.... Does that mean these things are what Raven actually told LE? Who knows. Those stories we will have to wait and hear down the road - at trial.I agree that it's quite possible (and likely even) that Rooster IS in the know on some level and DID post some things of substance. My point is only that we don't know that for sure so we have to be careful what conclusions we draw from things that s/he said.

I'm still confused about Rooster's knowledge of the laptop. Personally, I believe that Rooster slipped when s/he told us that. (I'm going to try to remember to see how long after that comment Rooster mysteriously stopped saying anything of significance (as if s/he was perhaps warned by someone to stop posting - I just checked and the tid-bit about the laptop on June 4th was the first day that Rooster was posting. S/he stopped posting anything of substance a week later. So I don't think that anything can be inferred by the timing of the posts)). However, I seem to remember that prior to Rooster saying that, we were already speculating about a laptop. Could it be that Rooster's statement about the laptop was based on the speculations that we had already been making at the time and not based on any real knowledge of the events?

RainbowsAndGumdrops
02-13-2006, 08:19 AM
I think that Rooster knows what he/she is talking about and probably from Raven directly. People who worked with LE would know what is not public info.

terminatrixator
02-13-2006, 02:22 PM
I think Rooster knows only what was told to Rooster by the Rave, and we all know Raven lies to suit his needs. that's not speculation, that's fact. Raven is a :loser:and he can cry me a river:boohoo: or he can:bang:for all I care, eventually he will end up :behindbar then I will :clap:.

lauriej
02-14-2006, 02:58 AM
I think Rooster knows only what was told to Rooster by the Rave, and we all know Raven lies to suit his needs. that's not speculation, that's fact. Raven is a :loser:and he can cry me a river:boohoo: or he can:bang:for all I care, eventually he will end up :behindbar then I will :clap:.
..yep..rooster's posts ( in the beginning ) had me feeling a little sorry for him/her..."the one man brigade proclaiming raven's innocence"..

..but in the end, it became clear to me, in my opinion, that raven was right by his/her side during posting.......or was rooster really raven all along ?

OriginalJerseyGirl
02-16-2006, 11:24 AM
I found an interesting post on another forum here at WS. Here's the portion that intrigued me:

I found a mistake, or at least John Douglas has written differently in one of his books. In the appeals states brief it is stated RR .40: 3691-93 and it looks like it came also from the FBI that defendants bring knives to a crime scene. If my memory serves me the case John Douglas talks about in one of his books. The husband of the victim is suspect until he learns something. Criminals talk to each other in jail. They obviously have the time on their hands. They teach each other stuff, like don't break into a house with a weapon. If caught, and there is always a chance, you will get more time as you can say I only commited B AND E the state can say but with intent to do harm cause you brought a weapon with you. Logic tells you that every house in America has some kitchen knives. If you do break in, with your own knife, and eventually have a confrontation with the home owner and commit murder you get dp in some states cause it shows premeditated murder. If you were only there to rob why did you bring a weapon with you-clear intent. I swear it is in one of John Douglas's books. Since I use my public library I don't have a copy to quote. I can't remember the title either but I think the cover has his picture on it.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Poll: Did Darlie Routier murder her children? (http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=969456&postcount=426)

I'm not sure what I think of this and I haven't been able to locate anything to either support or refute this concept just yet. (Of course, no matter how much information we find, it still can't account for every situation but it's an interesting thing to ponder nonetheless.) Any thoughts?

Jenifred
02-16-2006, 07:25 PM
As posted by radar in Raven is Innocent Thread #3:
If Raven killed Janet as some have suggested after returning home from playing soccer, he would have had very little time to hide the knife. All of the knives in the house were taken by police and tested. If a knife was found in the surrounding area, Raven would have been considered a suspect.
What do you think about Raven's admitted collection of knives (the Christmas video "I like to collect knives.")? We don't know if his collection was taken and tested. In fact, they weren't on the list of seized items on the search warrant. And it would be quite easy for Raven to lie and say--everything is here, not a single one missing.

juliagoulia
02-16-2006, 08:25 PM
There was a knife (with case) listed on the search warrant of the Durango. A "Bear Claw" knife, I believe. But you're right, we don't know about the other knives that might have been on the property.

ewwwinteresting
02-16-2006, 09:15 PM
If I remember right, LE took a complete set of blocked knives from the kitchen. I can't imagine someone entering the house (since no signs of break in), fumbling their way in the kitchen looking for a knife that wasn't in the block, going upstairs and stabbing Janet and then leaving with nothing but a laptop? I'm thinking this person brought his own knife and according to the above post, most of them wouldn't to avoid "intent"...so we either have a really lousy burglar that ended up murdering for a laptop or a really smart husband trying to look like a lousy burglar!

snapple
02-16-2006, 09:32 PM
If I remember right, LE took a complete set of blocked knives from the kitchen. I can't imagine someone entering the house (since no signs of break in), fumbling their way in the kitchen looking for a knife that wasn't in the block, going upstairs and stabbing Janet and then leaving with nothing but a laptop? I'm thinking this person brought his own knife and according to the above post, most of them wouldn't to avoid "intent"...so we either have a really lousy burglar that ended up murdering for a laptop or a really smart husband trying to look like a lousy burglar!
That one has my vote...Although I'm not completly convinced on the smart part.

lauriej
02-17-2006, 03:27 AM
If I remember right, LE took a complete set of blocked knives from the kitchen. I can't imagine someone entering the house (since no signs of break in), fumbling their way in the kitchen looking for a knife that wasn't in the block, going upstairs and stabbing Janet and then leaving with nothing but a laptop? I'm thinking this person brought his own knife and according to the above post, most of them wouldn't to avoid "intent"...so we either have a really lousy burglar that ended up murdering for a laptop or a really smart husband trying to look like a lousy burglar!
..yep........and i don't think there was a shortage of knives in that house,if we factor in raven's 'collection'.....

..i recall debating this with 'rooster' last june, when s/he brought up the possible robbery motive/rape motive.........as i said then, it's my belief that robbers rob, rapists rape, and murderers murder.
..i can't see a burglar passing up everything else in the house except a laptop, especially after murdering the 'witness', which would have bought him all sorts of extra time to look around for items to steal..even a beginner robber would also shake out her purse and take whatever cash was available..

..this crime scene ended in murder-----because it began as a murder.

terminatrixator
02-17-2006, 09:04 AM
The crime scene ended in murder, because it was premeditated to end in murder.

Do we really know if Raven had a "collection"? Seems Raven liked to embellish much, (bought house as opposed to rent house) having two knives to him could have been "a collection." There was the bear claw knife found but did they find the "In case I run across a deer" buck knife?

I believe the Bird knew what he was doing, and decided to make it look like a buglarly and get rid of his precious knife collection if he had one, his laptop, and moved his precious VX so LE would not later trash it, so he could commit murder and then claim that his laptop was missing and not bring up his one or two piece "collection."

Notice the votes for Jealous female? Notice the votes for revenge. It's as though someone wants us to believe that it was a female that did this, then someone (rave himself and his the few family/friends that believe in his innocence) wants us to believe that it was a revenge.

Jealous Guy? No, that doesn't fit either, because a Jealous guy would have no need for Raven's Precious Lap Top and Janet would not cheat on Raven, she would leave him before bringing some other guy into the mix, she's not a cheater.

Nobody would want to take revenge against Janet, because she never did anything wrong to anyone. Her husband did.

If someone wanted to take revenge against Raven, they would not go after Janet for it because they WOULD HAVE KNOW that Raven didn't give two a crap about his wife because Raven is so obviously narcissistic.

Whomever hated Raven enough to want revenge knows it would only make Raven's life easier and smoother without Janet! I don't buy any of these theories whatsoever, and it leads me back to square one.

Raven coldly, calculatingly, premeditated the Murder of Janet Marie and the precious child she was carrying, and I believe he knew she was Pregnant!

OriginalJerseyGirl
02-17-2006, 09:47 AM
Raven coldly, calculatingly, premeditated the Murder of Janet Marie and the precious child she was carrying, and I believe he knew she was Pregnant!I've been very troubled lately that if the above is true, then perhaps the only reason that Kaiden was spared is because it would have been too obvious who the perp was if both of them were murdered that night. I don't know the family so I really have no idea one way or the other but the rumors have Raven as not being the most attentive father in the world. Rumor has it that Kaiden is more of a burden and gets pushed off on other people all of the time while Raven dates, bikes, etc. Like I said - I have no way of knowing for sure - Raven might be a great father and all of the above could just be talk to make him look bad. But going away biking on your son's first conscious Halloween after his mother was murdered and you were fortunate enough to be spared that child - it just seems to me that a mourning parent would pull that child as close as possible and never let go. Yet some do mourn differently.

I guess what I'm saying is that I hope that Kaiden at least has a good Daddy in you, Raven.

OriginalJerseyGirl
02-17-2006, 10:08 AM
We've been told all along that this crime was not random. We've learned that the definition of not random according to the Mayor of (I think) Durham (in an article I posted somewhere) means that there was some relationship between the perp and the victim. And we know that in Janet's case, Kaiden was not harmed.

So the perp intentionally went after Janet and if there was some relationship between her and the perp, then the perp would likely know that Janet had a child. If the perp was not Raven, then why would someone go after Janet? She went to work and came home. By all accounts, it seems impossible that she was involved in anything that would cause someone to want to harm her. The only way that I could begin to believe that someone might have wanted to hurt her was to get to Raven. And if they were brazen enough to enter that home during the evening hours when many people are still awake (and apparently Janet was too since she was fully dressed) and brutally murder her in a very hands-on sort of way, why didn't they also go after Kaiden? Wouldn't that have been a sure-fire way to get to Raven - to go after his child?

Unless it WAS a robbery but I just can't grasp the concept of a robbery - that a robber just happened to break in and steal a laptop and brutally murder Janet in the meantime. For a laptop? And one that was probably toted around with Raven most of the time? (Do we know if he would take his laptop with him when he went out?) How convenient that it happened to be at the house that night to be stolen.

One random thought that I wanted to mention again - if my spouse was brutally murdered in my home especially at a time when I might have been there on a regular night, I think that I would be paralyzed with fear - even if I moved to the other side of the country. Has Raven ever seemed paralyzed with fear? Refusing to go out of the house even to get a job or go to the dentist? Looking over his shoulder wherever he goes? Refusing to let Kaiden out of his sight for fear that this nameless, faceless murderer could have followed them back to Utah?

OriginalJerseyGirl
02-18-2006, 09:21 AM
Hey people,
Not much of a sleuth, but I do have some info that may help. I never met Raven in person but I conversed with him a few times via email after he left a business card on my motorcycle with his email address saying he had a ducati also and we should ride sometime. This was around April-June of 2004 when I was still living in carrboro. When emailed each other for a little bit, but stopped after a week or so, for no real reason. Both of us busy I guess. Then in Feb. of this year (2005) Raven posted a for sale ad for his Duc 748 in a forum I visit regularly. I recogized his name and emailed him. He informed me that he was layed-off and that was why he was selling the duc. Said he had a child now and seemed pretty up beat about life. He said we should go riding sometime and asked if I would look over his bike to make sure everything was good and ready to be sold. I said I would and to let me know when. Didn't hear from him again. Later I saw the story and picture of Janet on WRAL's site and thought her and the child looked familiar. I've been checking back on the story from time to time since then, which lead me here today. Anyway thats my history...... Do you mean that they looked familiar just from around the neighborhood? Since you never met Raven in person, I assume you never met his family in person either. Since none of the neighbors on Ferrand had ever seen them, I kind of got the impression that they didn't go out in the neighborhood much. At least you recognizing them might mean that they did enjoy outside walks and stuff together with Kaiden.

When talking with Raven around feb. of this year. He seemed the same attitude wise if not more upbeat (He's referring to Feb. 2005). Said he was in durham now and was looking to move to raleigh. Which I think was where his new job was. Seemed proud of his new child and family life in general. I wonder if that could have been the mania. I can't imagine being more upbeat - he was in the beginning stages of the embezzlement fallout. Yet upbeat seems to be the recurring theme in jager's written recollections here about Raven.

...When talking with Raven b/w Apr-Jun of 04 IIRC he and Janet were living in the chapel hill/carrboro area, might have been in durham though. He played pickup soccer games at least once a week on the field at a school (name escapes me at the moment) in carrboro (http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=35.902612,-79.068207&spn=0.005815,0.007896&t=k&hl=en) (the big field in the picture on s merritt mill rd.) I believe he said he usually played on sunday, but also played/practiced during the week sometimes. He also said he played in an adult league and usually had games in charlotte and other close cities on the weekends during soccer season...

Thats about all I can think of for now. All of the stuff above is all from memory since I deleted the emails pretty much after I read them.Wow, that's an AMAZING memory ... you can remember all of that detail about Raven nearly a year after getting those e-mails! I honestly can't even remember what I talked about last week! :crazy:

Interesting site you guys have here. Has this site actually helped solve a crime before? There seem to be some great internet detectives and crime minds on here and some great information being shared. I would not be suprised if you guys have helped the LE on some cases before. If so great work.Thanks for your interest ... we're trying! :)

And btw, I really enjoyed your insights and wish that you would have stuck around longer. The offer is always on the table to jump back in if you want.

OriginalJerseyGirl
02-18-2006, 09:36 AM
SES, you had asked jager about his impressions of Raven in person, not realizing that he had never met Raven in person. I found this part of his response interesting:

As a said before, I never met Raven in person. I really don't have too much to offer as a judge of his personality for a couple of reason. One all of our emails probably only add up to a couple of paragraphs... What I find interesting about that is that apparently, in just those couple of paragraphs, Raven had told jager all kinds of stuff about himself and his soccer activities. How does one find an opening to talk about oneself that much in the space of just a couple of introductory paragraphs??? Some interesting personality traits at play there, IMO.

Two I'm not really analytical when it comes to people. And finally it’s hard to remember what my thoughts of him were almost a year ago ...At least the soccer detail stood out in his memory. It did prove helpful in figuring out some stuff.

But here are my thoughts based on our correspondence, which mostly limited to motorcycles and soccer. Definitely outgoing, nice and likeable. He was a little materialistic, but really not much more than any other 25 year old male. We were a lot alike: ducatis, soccer, mountain biking, snowboarding, IT field, and the same age. He seemed to be an optimist, even more so the second time I talked to him, after he was “layed-off” as he told me (can’t blame him for lying I wouldn’t tell people either). Seemed intelligent and self motivated. Has read some of the same books I have on motorcycle riding techniques. I don’t recall him talking at Janet, he might have said something once or twice, but as I said are emails were mainly about motorcycles and some soccer stuff. I know I never said anything about my girlfriend. I’ll let you know if I remember anything better, or can dig up some old emails.Very interesting.

ewwwinteresting
02-19-2006, 02:30 AM
When was raven ever "layed off"???????? I guess being hauled off in handcuffs from your place of work is considered layed off:doh:

OriginalJerseyGirl
02-19-2006, 02:35 AM
Laid off is what Raven allegedly called it when communicating with Jager. In his post, Jager states that he doesn't blame Raven for lying about the actual circumstances of his departure from ES. I guess some people tolerate lying better than others.

terminatrixator
02-19-2006, 09:50 AM
I've been very troubled lately that if the above is true, then perhaps the only reason that Kaiden was spared is because it would have been too obvious who the perp was if both of them were murdered that night. I don't know the family so I really have no idea one way or the other but the rumors have Raven as not being the most attentive father in the world. Rumor has it that Kaiden is more of a burden and gets pushed off on other people all of the time while Raven dates, bikes, etc. Like I said - I have no way of knowing for sure - Raven might be a great father and all of the above could just be talk to make him look bad. But going away biking on your son's first conscious Halloween after his mother was murdered and you were fortunate enough to be spared that child - it just seems to me that a mourning parent would pull that child as close as possible and never let go. Yet some do mourn differently.

I guess what I'm saying is that I hope that Kaiden at least has a good Daddy in you, Raven.
Then again, without Kaiden there would have been no Social Security to Kaiden and that's a meal ticket right there.

Also, there is the Widowers benefits, because he has to support Kaiden and therefore will be receiving widowers benefits only because we all know he's not a worker and since he doesn't work full-time or hasn't yet, he would be under the tax bracket and be allowed to collect widowers benefits.

I think he's allowed to make about 13,000 before a reduction in those benefits.

We all know that Raven should be able to make at least 30,000.00 to support himself and his child, even with all the FELONY CONVICTIONS, but that would mean he would have to work like a real man and he would lose Widowers benefits.
Can you say:loser:

Also, it's much harder to not screw up a crime scene on one murder as opposed to two. There would have been too many chances of slipping up, or maybe he does have a conscience, albiet VERY VERY VERY VERY SMALL.

Myself, I'm thinking he knew that Kaiden was his meal ticket and it was a decision based on $$$ as opposed to any real feelings for his child.

LTUlegal
02-19-2006, 09:56 AM
(edit to delete something that could be far-reaching the distasteful)
It seems to me that in life, Janet was carrying Raven...and now in death she's carrying him, too. Yep, I agree, he's a :loser:

OriginalJerseyGirl
02-19-2006, 01:26 PM
I think he's allowed to make about 13,000 before a reduction in those benefits.Ah, so maybe that's why he was only working part-time. And maybe that's why he was even more upbeat after he was laid off - he was just happy that he didn't have to get up and go to work anymore?

OriginalJerseyGirl
02-19-2006, 01:28 PM
... or maybe he does have a conscience, albiet VERY VERY VERY VERY SMALL.

Myself, I'm thinking he knew that Kaiden was his meal ticket and it was a decision based on $$$ as opposed to any real feelings for his child.As we all know, if he's a genuine sociopath, he has no real feelings for anyone. Except for himself, of course. And even those feelings are probably based more on self-preservation than anything else.

OriginalJerseyGirl
02-20-2006, 03:26 PM
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OriginalJerseyGirl
02-24-2006, 11:14 AM
Raven and the family members left Buena Vista after the funeral to travel to the burial site. So he would have only been in Buena Vista for the day before and the day of the funeral.Hmmmm, this keeps eating away at me.

So then there was one day between the funeral and the memorial service. And on that day, Raven was NOT at the guest house at SVU. And from what I understand, Karyn and Jim were driving Janet's car and Raven was driving the VX. (Convenient that those cars weren't in the possession of LE at the time - good thing that they weren't at the scene the night of the murder or what would they have driven? And would Raven and his parents have had to share ONE rental car rather than Raven having the opportunity to drive around Virginia on his own had those vehicles been impounded?) So did Raven have Kaiden with him or was Kaiden with someone else during that time? Especially the day in between the funeral and the memorial? A day would surely have been enough time to visit Smith Mountain Lake.

juliagoulia
02-24-2006, 02:04 PM
A day would surely have been enough time to visit Smith Mountain Lake.
Especially since SML is only about an hour away (65 miles) from Buena Vista.

OriginalJerseyGirl
02-24-2006, 02:07 PM
So Smith Mountain Lake was only an hour away, Raven had a free day AND had his own vehicle to drive? Hmmmm ... was someone watching Kaiden on May 8th, I wonder?

juliagoulia
02-24-2006, 02:13 PM
What also disturbs me is that the correct route from Buena Vista to SML does not follow an interstate. One would follow US-221 S, which is a semi-secluded, heavily wooded area. I don't really know what I'm getting at, but there seem to be lots of places one could get rid of stuff if that was the goal.

OriginalJerseyGirl
02-24-2006, 02:19 PM
And what better way to do it than to claim that you need to take a drive alone to clear your head? Who would question that on the weekend of your spouse's funeral?

Also, it's so far from the crime scene that the disposed items might as well have just disappeared. Even if they were to be found, what are the chances they'd ever be linked to a crime in North Carolina? It does seem like it could fit into a "perfect" plan pretty well.

slinkycat
02-24-2006, 11:08 PM
Hi Everyone...This is my first posting. I've been a lurker in this forum since May and am frustrated by the lack of progress in the case. I became aware of the case because as a friend-of-a-friend, I was at Janet's funeral in Buena Vista. I am having a difficult time believing that Raven isn't the culprit, although I admit the evidence is entirely circumstantial. Still, I can't believe that LE hasn't been able to find forensic evidence to connect him to the crime, especially since it was a stabbing, an up-close-and-personal attack which typically leaves lots of physical evidence on both the victim and perpetrator. I'm very eager to find out what LE has discovered, if anything, from ISP records. The missing laptop and/or its online data trail has got to be the key to breaking the case, or at least pointing LE towards new evidence.

lauriej
02-25-2006, 02:42 AM
welcome slinky...........good thoughts, i agree, the 'data-trail' on the "missing" lap-top is key...............of course "missing" or not, LE is able to get a ton of info from the IP , google,gmail etc.............(and raven thought he was so clever....NOT).

..also, why-------as a "friend of a friend' and not directly knowing janet or raven, do you have a hard time believing he could do this ?is it because raven appeared truly distraught at the funeral ? was he ? in your opinion, what WAS his demeanour that day ?

..as an "onlooker" that day in particuler, i welcome your perspective.......

OriginalJerseyGirl
02-25-2006, 09:05 AM
I'm very eager to find out what LE has discovered, if anything, from ISP records. The missing laptop and/or its online data trail has got to be the key to breaking the case, or at least pointing LE towards new evidence.Hi slinkycat, and thank you SO MUCH for joining us! You just made my whole weekend. :)

What you mentioned is to me, one of the most frustrating aspects of this case. We'll hear about something new and interesting and get our hopes up and then we hear nothing of it ever again. Not any results, not that there were no results ... just nothing.

At least once a week, I find myself thinking, "I just can't believe that this case is STILL ongoing - surely it can't be much longer", only to find myself saying the same exact thing the following week and the week after that and the week after that ...

But I'll say it again ... surely it can't be much longer?

Lighthouse
02-25-2006, 09:21 AM
Has anyone visited the Tears for Janet website lately at tearsforjanet.com? It is a beautiful website and gives you a good idea of what Janet was like.

BirdHunter
02-25-2006, 09:24 AM
Has anyone visited the Tears for Janet website lately at tearsforjanet.com? It is a beautiful website and gives you a good idea of what Janet was like.I did not know one existed. Where did you hear about this site?

Jess
02-25-2006, 09:53 AM
Is it just me ? or is someone kidding ? The url is wrong, click on it and nothing happens.

Lighthouse
02-25-2006, 11:39 AM
It worked five minutes ago. It is not completely finished yet but what they have is very nice.

OriginalJerseyGirl
02-25-2006, 11:40 AM
It worked for me as well. And it's beautiful.

OriginalJerseyGirl
02-25-2006, 11:42 AM
Oops, please forgive my manners! Welcome lighthouse! Thanks for sharing that link with us! :)

OriginalJerseyGirl
02-25-2006, 11:58 AM
Maybe the link and the subsequent discussion should be put here:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - Memories & Memorials (http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24005)

BirdHunter
02-25-2006, 08:37 PM
I went to the site and all I can say is WOW! Thank you so much Lighthouse for sharing that with us.

JustJax
02-25-2006, 08:52 PM
Yes, its wonderful...whoever is working on it is doing such a loving job.:angel:

LTUlegal
02-25-2006, 11:41 PM
It's absolutely beautiful...although it seems a work in progress, a beautiful work in progress. I was in tears just looking at it.

terminatrixator
02-26-2006, 07:35 PM
SES, you had asked jager about his impressions of Raven in person, not realizing that he had never met Raven in person. I found this part of his response interesting:

What I find interesting about that is that apparently, in just those couple of paragraphs, Raven had told jager all kinds of stuff about himself and his soccer activities. How does one find an opening to talk about oneself that much in the space of just a couple of introductory paragraphs??? Some interesting personality traits at play there, IMO.

At least the soccer detail stood out in his memory. It did prove helpful in figuring out some stuff.

Very interesting.
I found this extremely interesting after going through many of the old threads again. So many things stood to this guy and his memory, but yet even more strange was how much INFORMATION Raven seemed willing to give out to someone he never met before.

Yet, Raven can't seem to talk or ask for help in finding the killer of his wife and unborn child. We all know Raven is a big talker, guess he only likes talking about himself.

slinkycat
02-27-2006, 11:45 PM
welcome slinky...........good thoughts, i agree, the 'data-trail' on the "missing" lap-top is key...............of course "missing" or not, LE is able to get a ton of info from the IP , google,gmail etc.............(and raven thought he was so clever....NOT).

..also, why-------as a "friend of a friend' and not directly knowing janet or raven, do you have a hard time believing he could do this ?is it because raven appeared truly distraught at the funeral ? was he ? in your opinion, what WAS his demeanour that day ?

..as an "onlooker" that day in particuler, i welcome your perspective.......
We saw Raven right after we entered the rear entrance of the church in Buena Vista. I didn't know him but some of the people in my group recognized him and whispered to the others of us that he was Janet's husband. He came out of the viewing room where Janet was laid out, took a deep breath, closed his eyes, let out a very heavy sigh, and grimaced like he was trying to maintain composure. After the funeral, several of us commented on that 'display', and how fake it seemed, like he knew that he should show some emotion, but wasn't sure what to do. And I thought it was odd that he was completely alone, with nobody talking with him, comforting him, supporting him as he said a final goodbye to his wife in the viewing room. He stood outside the viewing room for a minute or so, and then moved on down the hall. That's the last I saw of him close-up. We sat in the rear of the church during the service and I only saw the back of his head after that. I remember that he held Kaiden for most of the service.

juliagoulia
02-28-2006, 12:30 AM
That is very similar to what I experienced at the service in Buena Vista. There were times when he was even chatty and upbeat. Being a very reserved person emotionally, I usually don't like to judge others' reactions to events...but you're right...so much of what I saw from Raven when he was "grieving" seemed very forced.

Thanks for posting, Slinky!

terminatrixator
02-28-2006, 10:22 AM
Thanks for Sharing this with us slinky.

OriginalJerseyGirl
02-28-2006, 10:48 AM
We saw Raven right after we entered the rear entrance of the church in Buena Vista. I didn't know him but some of the people in my group recognized him and whispered to the others of us that he was Janet's husband. He came out of the viewing room where Janet was laid out, took a deep breath, closed his eyes, let out a very heavy sigh, and grimaced like he was trying to maintain composure. After the funeral, several of us commented on that 'display', and how fake it seemed, like he knew that he should show some emotion, but wasn't sure what to do. And I thought it was odd that he was completely alone, with nobody talking with him, comforting him, supporting him as he said a final goodbye to his wife in the viewing room. He stood outside the viewing room for a minute or so, and then moved on down the hall.This makes me feel ill.

LTUlegal
02-28-2006, 04:35 PM
This makes me feel ill.
Well, it does me, too, but I suppose we need to remember that everyone grieves differently...isn't that what Scott Peterson said? (Perhaps while he was squeezing tears out in front of Diane Sawyer?):snooty:

JustJax
02-28-2006, 04:39 PM
I don't think a narcissist knows how to grieve...only try to act like they are. In their small minds they think they have everyone else fooled.:sick:

LTUlegal
02-28-2006, 05:02 PM
I don't think a narcissist knows how to grieve...only try to act like they are. In their small minds they think they have everyone else fooled.:sick:
Yeah, well, look how many people were fooled by sp....maybe um...himself?! LOL!

ewwwinteresting
02-28-2006, 09:45 PM
We saw Raven right after we entered the rear entrance of the church in Buena Vista. I didn't know him but some of the people in my group recognized him and whispered to the others of us that he was Janet's husband. He came out of the viewing room where Janet was laid out, took a deep breath, closed his eyes, let out a very heavy sigh, and grimaced like he was trying to maintain composure. After the funeral, several of us commented on that 'display', and how fake it seemed, like he knew that he should show some emotion, but wasn't sure what to do. And I thought it was odd that he was completely alone, with nobody talking with him, comforting him, supporting him as he said a final goodbye to his wife in the viewing room. He stood outside the viewing room for a minute or so, and then moved on down the hall. That's the last I saw of him close-up. We sat in the rear of the church during the service and I only saw the back of his head after that. I remember that he held Kaiden for most of the service.
Thanks for posting this SK and welcome to the board!

It is amazing how many people have come forward to comment on raven's lack of grieving or fake grieving at the funeral/memorial service compared to how many have come on to say the opposite. What? we only have rooster's comment....Fact - He grieved appropriately :rolleyes: It is interesting to me that NO ONE else has defended his actions as being appropriate, in their opinion. I'm guessing the family and friends were also wondering wth was going on with his behavior?

OriginalJerseyGirl
03-01-2006, 08:01 AM
I'm guessing the family and friends were also wondering wth was going on with his behavior?Maybe they wanted to be as far away from him as possible so that they could claim that they didn't see him react inappropriately, thereby being able to believe in his innocence. Then again, some of the siblings didn't even attend, right? That seems like such a tremendous lack of support. Unless there's some major underlying reason of which we are unaware for why siblings didn't attend their young brother's murdered wife's funeral, then there are dynamics in that family that I just can't understand.

RainbowsAndGumdrops
03-01-2006, 08:53 AM
I agree with Slinky that Raven's behavior at the funeral seemed fake. I can't put a finger on what struck me as odd, but he seemed to have an air of "whatever". I think that everyone there had been told that police thought he did it. Perhaps that twisted my opinion of his behavior, but he sure seemed fake. He did look me in the eyes and I could tell that he didn't even remember who I was. I was actually glad about that. When he looked me in the eyes it seemed like puzzlement trying to figure out why I was there. Did he know that everyone was watching him?

terminatrixator
03-01-2006, 02:52 PM
Everyone is still watching him, his friends, his family, his coworkers, his buddies, and they will continue to watch him, and mistrust him and with good reason.

RainbowsAndGumdrops
03-01-2006, 03:06 PM
Do you ever wish that you could be a fly on the wall, following him around and observing him? I do.

Jenifred
03-01-2006, 03:08 PM
Then again, some of the siblings didn't even attend, right? That seems like such a tremendous lack of support. Unless there's some major underlying reason of which we are unaware for why siblings didn't attend their young brother's murdered wife's funeral, then there are dynamics in that family that I just can't understand.Let's think about why siblings didn't go....
Shiloh--probably didn't have the money (you know, panhandling only raises so much or maybe it was the drugs she was selling didn't catch a high enough price.)

Derek (Derique, however he's spelling it these days)--probably too poor, drunk, high to even realize what was going on. You had to be under the influence to think that the song he wrote in Janet's memory was a fitting memorial.

Jacob--again no cash flow. Maybe he's still in hiding from his internet baseball scam. I'm sure that maybe his wife might have enjoyed to be there and pay her respects.

The Bolton sibilings? Who knows, since they don't live their lives on the internet I don't have much to say about them.

terminatrixator
03-01-2006, 08:44 PM
Do you ever wish that you could be a fly on the wall, following him around and observing him? I do.
roflmao...........yeah that is a thought.

terminatrixator
03-01-2006, 08:47 PM
Let's think about why siblings didn't go....
Shiloh--probably didn't have the money (you know, panhandling only raises so much or maybe it was the drugs she was selling didn't catch a high enough price.)

Derek (Derique, however he's spelling it these days)--probably too poor, drunk, high to even realize what was going on. You had to be under the influence to think that the song he wrote in Janet's memory was a fitting memorial.

Jacob--again no cash flow. Maybe he's still in hiding from his internet baseball scam. I'm sure that maybe his wife might have enjoyed to be there and pay her respects.

The Bolton sibilings? Who knows, since they don't live their lives on the internet I don't have much to say about them.
:doh: Yeah I think you pegged it JG.

lauriej
03-02-2006, 01:18 AM
I agree with Slinky that Raven's behavior at the funeral seemed fake. I can't put a finger on what struck me as odd, but he seemed to have an air of "whatever". I think that everyone there had been told that police thought he did it. Perhaps that twisted my opinion of his behavior, but he sure seemed fake. He did look me in the eyes and I could tell that he didn't even remember who I was. I was actually glad about that. When he looked me in the eyes it seemed like puzzlement trying to figure out why I was there. Did he know that everyone was watching him?
..i can't imagine how you sat through the service, while raven was " putting on his (fake) show--------ughhh--------------------------my sincere condolences to you in the loss of your friend...

..however--------i love it that "everyone there had been told that "he did it"------------being the pompous big shot ( that he perceives himself to be ) he'll surely 'slip up' sometime soon, and "everyone" will be watching for that.......

.."fakers--------------they can never be "real" for long"................

Thinkoflaura
03-02-2006, 01:20 AM
My gosh,
Is the entire family a bunch of gypsies, tramps, theives and pimps?
I knew his mother was not above larceny, but his sibs are druggies who also sell?
Is Shiloh ( whose name probably is Mary or something) pimping herself on that MySpace site?

I remember the photos of Janet out in Utah with Kaiden. Was Janet like this once she married the bird? I wouldn't have set foot in their house, because association with criminal elements is not too good a thing, know what I mean?
How could she absolutely not have known what Raven was doing with what we know he did wrong, the cheating with other women and the thefts from Eurosport? I am not dissing the dead, but I had no clue that Raven's entire family was as screwed up as he is.

How could Janet not have known? If she did, why did she marry him? Stay with him and have his baby? I feel so sick after reading this.
I've been with the case since the beginning, and said that the siblings were changing their names to hide from something ( it's on like thread one or two in the General Discussions) but I had no clue that it would turn out to be this horribly right.


Let's think about why siblings didn't go....
Shiloh--probably didn't have the money (you know, panhandling only raises so much or maybe it was the drugs she was selling didn't catch a high enough price.)

Derek (Derique, however he's spelling it these days)--probably too poor, drunk, high to even realize what was going on. You had to be under the influence to think that the song he wrote in Janet's memory was a fitting memorial.

Jacob--again no cash flow. Maybe he's still in hiding from his internet baseball scam. I'm sure that maybe his wife might have enjoyed to be there and pay her respects.

The Bolton sibilings? Who knows, since they don't live their lives on the internet I don't have much to say about them.

lauriej
03-02-2006, 02:54 AM
My gosh,
Is the entire family a bunch of gypsies, tramps, theives and pimps?
I knew his mother was not above larceny, but his sibs are druggies who also sell?
Is Shiloh ( whose name probably is Mary or something) pimping herself on that MySpace site?

I remember the photos of Janet out in Utah with Kaiden. Was Janet like this once she married the bird? I wouldn't have set foot in their house, because association with criminal elements is not too good a thing, know what I mean?
How could she absolutely not have known what Raven was doing with what we know he did wrong, the cheating with other women and the thefts from Eurosport? I am not dissing the dead, but I had no clue that Raven's entire family was as screwed up as he is.

How could Janet not have known? If she did, why did she marry him? Stay with him and have his baby? I feel so sick after reading this.
I've been with the case since the beginning, and said that the siblings were changing their names to hide from something ( it's on like thread one or two in the General Discussions) but I had no clue that it would turn out to be this horribly right.
..you're right............i can't remember, i'm sure jersey can, but "shiloh" did have an alternate name on classmates.........

..even if HIS family was/is "SNAFU"..i can totally see that janet would have no awareness of it at the time..........sure we know things NOW that we didn't know THEN.............

..i do think that to go back to "thread one...thread two..etc" would be beneficial at this time----------there was some good info coming in fast and furious "back then".........

..bottom line : it's now march 2005, practically a year since janet's brutal murder------(and the 'not random killer'-'the thief who was having affairs''the guy who shed crocodile tears at the funeral')--------ok fine, RAVEN--gets to be hiking and biking out in utah..........while her family is planning to lay flowers on the anniversary date.............

..what are your plans for april raven ? revving up those fake tears ? watching your back every moment in case LE shows up with a warrant ? ( and you know they're close--------they WILL--)sleep tight.

terminatrixator
03-02-2006, 07:54 AM
My gosh,
Is the entire family a bunch of gypsies, tramps, theives and pimps?
I knew his mother was not above larceny, but his sibs are druggies who also sell?
Is Shiloh ( whose name probably is Mary or something) pimping herself on that MySpace site?

I remember the photos of Janet out in Utah with Kaiden. Was Janet like this once she married the bird? I wouldn't have set foot in their house, because association with criminal elements is not too good a thing, know what I mean?
How could she absolutely not have known what Raven was doing with what we know he did wrong, the cheating with other women and the thefts from Eurosport? I am not dissing the dead, but I had no clue that Raven's entire family was as screwed up as he is.

How could Janet not have known? If she did, why did she marry him? Stay with him and have his baby? I feel so sick after reading this.
I've been with the case since the beginning, and said that the siblings were changing their names to hide from something ( it's on like thread one or two in the General Discussions) but I had no clue that it would turn out to be this horribly right.
There was barely contact between Janet Marie Christiansen and her inlaws. You marry the man, but you don't marry the inlaws, many people have colorful people in their extended family and as inlaws.

Janet met Raven, a clean-cut, athletic, charismatic person, she married him in August 2000. If we all take into account that he is a sociopath, he is charming, he is everything a girl can hope for in a man, ambition, he claimed to be ambitious and she Loved him.

After marriage is when the real true Raven seemed to come out. Let's look at the timeline again below:
-----
August, 2000 - 04: Janet and Raven Abaroa married

November 2000
11: Janet and Raven and their dog Shanuk take a trip to Lost River National Park in West Virginia

December, 2000
??: Janet obtains her Associate's Degree and takes a year off from college to spend time with Raven

February 2001
19: Janet and Raven took a vacation to Orlando, FL

May, 2001
08: Raven's wallet was stolen. It contained $35, his driver's license and credit cards

January, 2004
??: Rumors from an anonymous source indicate Raven was unfaithful to Janet and the couple were in the process of separating,

February and April, 2004 Janet discovers she is pregnant - Raven and Janet reconcile
-------------
03/18/2004, 09:22 AM
NC_VX

I'm in, arriving Friday day with a tent for two and my dog. I'll be staying through Sunday.

Attending:
me and a guest
Dog

Look forward to seeing you all there!
__________________
-The Rave-
North Carolina
-----
Okay so they were married in August of 2000. The Affair started somewhere before or around January 2004 - AFTER 4 YEARS of Marriage.

I would believe that the affair had been going on for a while before Janet found out. When she found out they then separated, but BEFORE Janet found out, I would assume they were as a Married couple, and acted like a Married couple, so of course there is a chance of becoming Pregnant.

She found out about the affair and they separated and THEN Janet found out - OMG - She's Pregnant with HER HUSBAND, the cheating Raven, and he's now living with another broad.

All I can think here is the emotional pain she had to have been dealing with at this time. It brings me to tears and pisses me off so so bad.

I wonder how much of this she held on to herself, out of so much hurt and for some reason many women get embarrassed that their husbands could do this to them. Now she's Pregnant and what should have been such a joyous occasion in a young married woman's life is now marred with so much anxiety about her babies future and her future.

Looking at that Wheel mentioned in another section one word does stand out ISOLATION. I bet she held so much to herself at this time.

Janet HAD to have figured out she was pregnant AFTER she found out about the affair somewhere at the END of January beginning of February and she held off on telling Raven because of her fear of telling him she was Pregnant because they were broken up and the creep was already LIVING WITH ANOTHER BROAD. We know that Janet HAD to know she was Pregnant for sure in February before before March.

The Above mentioned "Guest" would NOT have been Janet, Janet was going through a situation where, her husband was a cheater, living with some other broad, and she's Pregnant, this still ticks me off to no end, but it happens, and I'm sure Raven did a lot of grovelling, to do the right thing, and to grow the **** up from people close to him.

In APRIL he writes:
04/16/2004, 07:47 AM
NC_VX

Guys, it looks like we're all on our own for this weekend. Its probably better, I am moving the end of htis month and getting preasure from friends and family that I am shirking my responsibilities for entertainment.... NO, not me!!!!

....snip because of the stupidity of it.

Catch ya'll later!
__________________
-The Rave-
North Carolina
We now have to believe by April he knows he's going to be a father, him and Janet eventually or have already gotten back together around this time. He got pressure to "DO THE RIGHT THING" from friends and maybe some family members.

Affairs happen, I'm sure Raven did some MAJOR sucking up to get back into Janet's life when he realized ONCE AGAIN he looks like a complete and UTTER failure. We have Janet Pregnant, and she did love Raven and took her marriage vows seriously and decided to make this work, so her child would have a FATHER in his/her life.

October 17, 2004, Kaiden is Born. We all saw the Videos of Janet going to the hospital to have the baby and the after in the Memorial video.

He gets back with Janet sometime in April and within 3 months - July he starts EMBEZZLING FUNDS! Guess the growing up and stop shirking responsibilities means to STEAL.

Janet is pregnant at this time that he is embezzling Money. Janet has way too much going on and there is NO DOCUMENTATION, NO INDICATION WHATSOEVER, that JANET MARIE had any knowledge whatsoever of the Embezzlement.

Raven was FIRED. Janet was NOT FIRED. Janet left because of another set of HUMILIATION and EMBARRASSMENT, handed down to her because of Raven.

Back to timeline:

July, 2004
01: Raven allegedly begins embezzling funds from his employer, Eurosport

September, 2004
01: Raven allegedly embezzles more funds from his employer, Eurosport

October, 2004
01: Raven allegedly embezzles more funds from his employer, Eurosport
17: Kaiden is born

November, 2004
01: Raven allegedly embezzles more funds from his employer, Eurosport

December, 2004
01: Raven allegedly embezzles more funds from his employer, Eurosport

January, 2005
??: Raven fired for allegations of embezzlement from his former employer, Eurosport in Hillsborough.

??: Janet resigned from her accounting position at Eurosport.

February, 2005
02: Raven Abaroa was charged with 5 counts of embezzling thousands of dollars from Eurosport, according to court documents.

April, 2005
22: Landlord said Janet and Raven just signed the forms for the change in rent. Landlord gave the previous two months free due to unemployment.
It is believed that their churched raised enough funds to pay for their April rent. May rent would've been back to normal before their unemployment.

25: Raven makes an entry to his blog on his website about overcoming trying times in his life and plans to start anew (my interpretation)

Somewhere in January 2005 Janet finds out that Raven has been fired for embezzlment. Nobody here knows what was told to Janet about this embezzlement, She knew about it AFTER he was fired, and he was arrested by police.

We have no clue WHAT Raven told Janet regarding the embezzlements. He could have said he was framed, I didn't embezzle, I did it for us, whatever excuse this freak used.

Now Janet has a 6 month old Child, Kaiden and now she has to deal with the impending Trial of HER HUSBAND, and she finds out - She's pregnant again.

The amount of pain this woman has suffered because of her husband and his devious, disgusting ways is appalling in itself.

We have had heard rumors of an affair again somewhere in this time frame. They are only speculation and rumors, were they true, did Janet find out, and think OMG not again, here I am with this deadbeat of a husband, I'm pregnant again, he's a thief and a cheater ONCE again and I'm pregnant or what? We have no clue at this point.

But whatever was going on at this time. Janet was the Victim, and not involved with the embezzlement and she had a child she was trying to raise, with absolutely NO HELP from the Monster, she called her Husband and this is a very important aspect to keep in mind.

He started embezzling BEFORE Kaiden was even born.

I am of the belief that Raven slowly, methodically, plotted the murder of Janet.

Once he was caught for Embezzlement, he realized Janet would eventually leave him, because he is a failure. He was the cheat, a thief, and it would make him look so much worse if his wife and baby left him and he probably did seek comfort in another woman's arms though unconfirmed.

I believe that Janet may have told him she was pregnant prior to his April 25, 2005 stupid Web Site and that goes towards premeditation of this plans.

Above is just my perspective - take it or leave it or feel free to correct me, but this is the way things play in my head and I'm sticking to it, until corrected by someone in the know or until TRIAL.

OriginalJerseyGirl
03-02-2006, 08:03 AM
..however--------i love it that "everyone there had been told that "he did it"------------being the pompous big shot ( that he perceives himself to be ) he'll surely 'slip up' sometime soon, and "everyone" will be watching for that.......I hope you're right, lauriej. I personally believe that slipping up often comes from guilt or anxiety over what you've done. But if he's a sociopath like we've all speculated many times, then Janet isn't even on his mind. She was subtracted from the calculation, and he can't understand why we can't all just move on like he has.

OriginalJerseyGirl
03-02-2006, 08:10 AM
How could Janet not have known? If she did, why did she marry him? Stay with him and have his baby?Janet fell in love with Raven in college, away from their families. She probably had no idea of any negative things that existed in that family. Even after they were married, his family lives in Utah, California, Arizona ... did her path even cross much with theirs?

And remember too that Janet was a shy and quiet girl. She fell in love with this man that seemed larger than life, a man who by all accounts was a charming extrovert; he probably (at one point) made her feel so alive. And once he knew he had her hooked, that's when he probably began to isolate and control her. And once that begins to happen, there are so many psychological factors interacting with each other that it's often impossible for women to remove themselves from that situation. They're isolated (intentionally) to the point that they believe their controlling man when he tells them that no one else will want them, and begin to feel lucky that this man will have them when no one else will. Add a child or children to the mix, and it's virtually cementing the situation.

OriginalJerseyGirl
03-02-2006, 08:11 AM
..you're right............i can't remember, i'm sure jersey can, but "shiloh" did have an alternate name on classmates.........
Treena Smith?

OriginalJerseyGirl
03-02-2006, 08:30 AM
He gets back with Janet sometime in April and within 3 months - July he starts EMBEZZLING FUNDS! Guess the growing up and stop shirking responsibilities means to STEAL.
What this shows me is that Raven went from living care-free in a new relationship that was still exciting to being pushed into doing the right thing ... "getting pressure from family and friends that I'm shirking my responsibility" ... so was getting back together with Janet for the sake of the baby even Raven's idea or did perhaps his family/church/friends make him feel like he should?

Anyway, he goes from having these few months of excitement that he probably forgot existed to moving back in with his estranged wife who's now expecting a baby. (Please know that I mean no disrespect to Janet - all of us that have been in relationships know that after the early stages, the excitement wanes and is replaced by something deeper and more steady.) Within only three months, his tendency to overindulge himself with his toys (cars, trips, etc.) combined with his new responsibility to pay rent and prepare for the upcoming birth of a third mouth to feed made him feel the need to embezzle. He didn't/couldn't curb his lifestyle - after all, he felt that he deserved these things; he was somehow entitled to have cars, computers, PDA's, cell phones, soccer memberships, etc. So rather than give up these things, he stole money in order to continue having those things. But I believe that he was so out of control that even in spite of the added income from soccer shoe sales on e-bay, he had overextended himself financially. What he needed to do was to sell everything and start from square one. We see indications of him realizing that that's what he needed to do. But we also see MANY indications that he in no way wanted to do that. I think that he got deeper and deeper into debt, knew what he had to do but couldn't do it, somehow made it all Janet's fault that these things were happening, and ultimately made her pay for his extravagant lifestyle and delusions of grandeur.

When I see these things listed the way you listed them, term, it looks like Raven was a ticking time bomb. Unfortunately, the evidence that indicates that wasn't evident at that point in time.

OriginalJerseyGirl
03-02-2006, 09:11 AM
Do we know that Raven was living with someone else during the break-up?

OriginalJerseyGirl
03-02-2006, 04:06 PM
A couple of other things I would like to know:

Is it certain that they would have been paying their own rent again starting in May?
Might it have been easier for Raven to be taken in for free as the victim of a crime than to admit his situation to someone (again?)? The reason I ask is this - one more thing he posted is sticking out to me - when posting about selling the VX and the Ducati, he said something like he hopes they'll make it through this (referring to the financial hardships). And I thought - well why wouldn't they make it through it? Couldn't they ask family for help? And I wonder - how many times might they have asked for help before? And did people got tired of pumping money into someone that obviously wasn't learning how to be responsible?

Is it possible that Raven knew that the bottom was falling out and was too ashamed to admit that he needed help (once again?) and figured that he'd have to do something drastic in order to get help without admitting that he needed it?

OriginalJerseyGirl
03-02-2006, 04:10 PM
Let's think about why siblings didn't go....
Shiloh--probably didn't have the money (you know, panhandling only raises so much or maybe it was the drugs she was selling didn't catch a high enough price.)

Derek (Derique, however he's spelling it these days)--probably too poor, drunk, high to even realize what was going on. You had to be under the influence to think that the song he wrote in Janet's memory was a fitting memorial.

Jacob--again no cash flow. Maybe he's still in hiding from his internet baseball scam. I'm sure that maybe his wife might have enjoyed to be there and pay her respects. And how many of us would have taken out a second (or even a third) mortgage on our homes to give our children the money to attend their distraught sibling's murdered spouse's funeral? *raising hand* I wouldn't even have had to think twice - my a*s would have been at the bank first thing to get money for my kids to be there for their brother. They were at the bank anyway, setting up a memorial fund so why not?

RainbowsAndGumdrops
03-02-2006, 04:17 PM
Wasn't there a post within the past few days that said that Raven had to sell his VX because he was a few months behind on payments. Right around that same time I think he was saying that he was tinting it and doing several other things. Does that make sense to anyone?

RainbowsAndGumdrops
03-02-2006, 04:25 PM
Can we add finances to the timeframe, not just when he started to embezzle from Eurosport, but things like free rent, when he says he is behind in car payments, the comments we heard that he was previously fired for suspected embezzlement (I think there was Cannon and one other company). We can add having to pay for car repairs, souping up his cars, posting his cars/ motorcycles for sale.... Do we have all of these details already in a single timeline?

On a side note, did we ever determine what happened to the pets after the murder?

OriginalJerseyGirl
03-02-2006, 04:25 PM
Wasn't there a post within the past few days that said that Raven had to sell his VX because he was a few months behind on payments. Right around that same time I think he was saying that he was tinting it and doing several other things. Does that make sense to anyone?Good observation. When I get back to the boards later with more time, I'll check the dates (if someone doesn't before then). I think it has something to do with that internal conflict that Raven was experiencing - knowing that he needed to sell some of his toys in order to support his family yet not wanting to give up any of his stuff. I think that he also told different things to different people based on what he wanted out of them - sympathy, admiration, etc.

OriginalJerseyGirl
03-02-2006, 04:28 PM
We can add having to pay for car repairs...Speaking of this, I still want to know this about the car(s) in the shop on the night of the murder.

1) Were they in for necessary repairs or something that could have waited?

2) Were they brought in at appointed times or on the spur of the moment?

3) What were the cost of these repairs going to be? Was it something that was affordable and necessary to someone that couldn't even pay rent?

Jenifred
03-02-2006, 11:24 PM
Wasn't there a post within the past few days that said that Raven had to sell his VX because he was a few months behind on payments. Right around that same time I think he was saying that he was tinting it and doing several other things. Does that make sense to anyone?
Nope, it makes no sense to anyone with their priorities in the right place. Raven cares only about himself--it seems that he's always put himself first. He doesn't like sacrificing the things he wants for the things he (and his family needs). Everybody remember when his account of when he bought his VX? He knew that the payments would be a stretch, yet he still bought it. (And weren't he and Janet just newlyweds? I couldn't imagine buying a $30,000+ car after just being married or even now!!).

I wouldn't be suprised if all of those add-ons to the car went on the credit cards--thus adding to the hole of debt he was digging himself into.

juliagoulia
03-03-2006, 02:24 AM
And remember when the judge asked him why he embezzled all that money, his response was, "to pay off bills" (see this post (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=777925&postcount=26)) He failed to mention they were bills for his stupid toys! I really wonder if the judge would have been so lenient if he knew all the facts about what Raven was spending his money on.

lauriej
03-03-2006, 03:48 AM
Wasn't there a post within the past few days that said that Raven had to sell his VX because he was a few months behind on payments. Right around that same time I think he was saying that he was tinting it and doing several other things. Does that make sense to anyone?
01/20/2005, 09:39 AM
NC_VX

99 Vx, Custom Black Paint, Lift, Tires, Must Sell
I fall into the Jobless statistics that CNN reads out these days. SHIZZZ.

..( "fell into the jobless statistics???umm, no raven, you were FIRED for stealing.)

I'm looking hard, but its really difficult to start over.

So, I am asking $13,000 O.B.O for my pride and joy.

This 1999 VX has just under 110,000 miles, had the timing belt recently replaced, has regular oil and tire rotations and has been carefully cared for wiht no mud slinging, just rock climbing and enjoying some fun West Virginia Dirt roads!

The body is in perfect shape with a custom very nice Black paint job. I recently installed the Cobra CB radio with Firewire Antenna, but I haven't hard wired it to the car yet (cause I don't know how). I also have run the wires for the trunk popper, but again, not wired.

What the VX has is tinting around all windows, clearcorners on turn signals, PIAA Fog Lights and Horn lights with Bright white bulbs on headlights. I feature the custom VX decal and mostly debadged body. The inside has the Extended seat for passanger and trunk box in the rear. I also have the Subwoofer Spare tire mount, but no aftermarket system or speakers installed.

Underneath this bad boy is a PV2 Muffler, OEM 912 springs, RS9000 shocks and a heafty 33in tires. The latest add on was the beefy STINKYFAB links that are painted Red.

Check out the pics in my gallery. This is one before the tint...

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/2/510hpim0290-med.jpg
__________________
-The Rave-
North Carolina

..he posts again an hour later..

01/20/2005, 10:54 AM
NC_VX


Who knows... Maybe I'll be back on my feet real soon and will be able to keep the VX. So far, its the Durango that stays cause it fits the baby, lots of stuff and the dogs... Its the Acura cause its good on gas and professional if I'm working sales.... So the VX just doesn't fit. However, if it was up to me I'd keep the VX and the Durango. Who cares about Gas Mileage when I can tow the Durango when it breaks down!!!

............what a crybaby, here's a guy who is an unemployed loser, has a wife and newborn to support, and he's feeling sorry for himself that his "pride and joy" vx has to go........

..i wonder why though, that within an hr. of listing it, he changes his mind and says that maybe he'll be keeping it after all.......

..and if it wasn't 'up to him" to sell, whose idea was that ?

lauriej
03-03-2006, 04:06 AM
02/15/2005, 10:42 AM
NC_VX
http://vehicross.info/forums/images/icons/icon4.gif Let's Cut our Losses
Thanks for the words of wisdom RT. You are right on with what it takes to get the job and I've been practicing those models.

I am now working for an IT training company out of Raleigh, however I am not making near what I need to survive. I am still steadily interviewing for some higher paying jobs and one job I am in as a finalist.

I've decided that parting with the VX is going to be what I need to do. I am going to go to the complete lowest I can go to hopefully sell within 30 days as I am a few payments behind as of today and don't think I can catch up in my current state.

With that said, I am willing to part with this guy for an unbelievably low price of:
11,900.00

This includes all accessories and a VX that is truly unique! Anyone interested feel free to call at 919-593-4535
__________________
-The Rave-
North Carolina

........the very same day............he lists his bike for sale:

02/15/2005, 10:45 AM

2001 Ducati 748 BiPosto
Its cherry red, in great shape. Has low miles. I am hoping to get 6,500 for it with two helmets, two sets of riding gear, some tank bags and gloves. It has a cover and some ducati touch up paint. Please let me know if you are interested...919-593-4535. My names Raven
__________________
-The Rave-
North Carolina

OriginalJerseyGirl
03-03-2006, 08:40 AM
And remember when the judge asked him why he embezzled all that money, his response was, "to pay off bills" (see this post (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=777925&postcount=26)) He failed to mention they were bills for his stupid toys! I really wonder if the judge would have been so lenient if he knew all the facts about what Raven was spending his money on.Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Media Links Only Ple (http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=778501&postcount=27)

"... Later, Barber asked Abaroa if there was a reason he stole the athletic shoes.

"No," Abaroa replied.

"What did you do with the money?" Barber asked.

"I repaired cars, paid bills," Abaroa said..."

Repaired or upgraded? And ironic that at least one car was in the shop on the night of Janet's murder. How many repairs did these cars need???

OriginalJerseyGirl
03-03-2006, 08:58 AM
Everybody remember when his account of when he bought his VX? He knew that the payments would be a stretch, yet he still bought it.Because it's all about image to him. He didn't care what Janet thought, felt, wanted, needed ... opinions of strangers on the street meant more to him than those of the people that should have meant the most. Remember his embarassingly idiotic post about his new paint job. I'm frequently stunned by the fact that he just doesn't seem to realize what an ass he makes himself out to be:

03/23/2004, 10:29 AM
http://www.vehicross.info/forums/im...rs/vx_white.gif (http://www.vehicross.info/forums/member.php?u=510)NC_VX (http://www.vehicross.info/forums/member.php?u=510) http://www.vehicross.info/forums/im...ser_offline.gif (http://www.vehicross.info/forums/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif) vbmenu_register("postmenu_31008", true);
Super VXer
99, Ironman VX, 1455
Chapel Hill, NC US
Member Since: Jun 2003
Posts: 200
http://www.vehicross.info/forums/im...utation_pos.gif (http://www.vehicross.info/forums/images/reputation/reputation_pos.gif)


"THE RENEWED 1999 BLACK IRONMAN... My Baby!
Long awaited release of my new look! I get even more looks now, and I've only been sporting the new look for 24 hours. I stopped by an Isuzu dealership and they were paging everyone to come out and take a look (however, I am not a big fan of their mechanics, go figure) and I've had approval by a few girls who weren't sure if they liked it or not. I've still got some mechancil issues (some spelling issues too) and some more buffing to do, but I think it will all be worth it.

The big Question is, do I want to take it wheelin' now? Sure I do, but I'm gonna have to be very careful!!! Check out the StinkFab bent links I've got tucked under the rear wheels... The clearance looks awesome now!!!!

Let me know what you think!"

"Long awaited release of my new look"? Is he kidding? Who really gave a hoot besides him? His self-importance is nauseating.

I wouldn't be suprised if all of those add-ons to the car went on the credit cards--thus adding to the hole of debt he was digging himself into.Nah, he used the funds from the embezzled merchandise to pay for those.

OriginalJerseyGirl
03-03-2006, 09:10 AM
..i wonder why though, that within an hr. of listing [the VX for sale], he changes his mind and says that maybe he'll be keeping it after all.......Because of this mentality:

"I started off loving every minute of it. I bought a S2000, and my Ducati and decided I wanted a Jeep instead. I hadn't listed the VX ever, but I started making ... my wife drive it around since I traveled for work a lot. I dind't much care for the goofiness of the vehicle, like not having a trunk popper, hard to access rear seats, horrible rear view, sucky mileage.... I was looking at unloading it and realized I would have to take a sizeable loss to do that. I was STUCK with this freakin car..... BOOOM, one day I found this website. I only looked through it for about 30 minutes, mostly to see what "bad" stuff I could find about the car to add to my frustration with the huge loss I would take...

I hated loosing money on cars, but I felt I had this disease where I lost interest, like a severe form of ADHD for adults.... But this was my medicine. It is so exciting to look forward to modding my VX and meeting all the other owners.... IN a nutshell, I WILL NEVER EVER SELL MY VX.. In fact, got a little one on the way (Oct due date). By then I hope to have a DVD screen in the front and a drop down screen in the back.... Barney, here we come!!!!!!"

This is from the old post below but it was snipped so I can't tell all that went on in this post. What I do see is that he HATED this vehicle, couldn't stand that he was going to lose money on it. He even went to the VX site (he claims) to find out all of the bad stuff he could about the car, (what is THAT about - does anyone understand that part)? But when he saw the community that existed on the VX site, and the meets (parties), etc., he not only decided to keep that vehicle he hated (so much that he made Janet drive it because he couldn't stand it!!!!!) but he also decided to toss limitless money into it to make it the best. And somehow did a complete 180? From despising it to never ever intending to sell it? And in only a 30 minute visit to a website - wow, he's very solid in his opinions! :rolleyes: We've discussed all of this before but the bottom line is that Raven is a chameleon. When he decides he wants to be a part of something, he does what he has to do to fit in. So was selling the VX EVER an option? Or did Raven think - Hmmm, without Janet, I lose one person ... without the VX, I lose this entire community?

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Big Boy Toys (http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=669110&postcount=23)

..and if it wasn't 'up to him" to sell, whose idea was that ?Hmmm, interesting. :waitasec:

SouthEastSleuth
03-03-2006, 09:13 AM
Can we add finances to the timeframe, not just when he started to embezzle from Eurosport, but things like free rent, when he says he is behind in car payments, the comments we heard that he was previously fired for suspected embezzlement (I think there was Cannon and one other company). We can add having to pay for car repairs, souping up his cars, posting his cars/ motorcycles for sale.... Do we have all of these details already in a single timeline?

On a side note, did we ever determine what happened to the pets after the murder?
Hey RandG - I don't recall ever hearing about Raven working at a place called "Cannon"? Any insights into this? I know early on we were trying to sort out all the place that we KNEW Raven had worked, and the list was long! So I'm curious about "Cannon" and also if there were rumors of embezzlement there as well? Thanks in advance!

Thinkoflaura
03-04-2006, 12:33 PM
You are right. It's so easy for me to forget how young she was, and probably had come from a sterling home where things like lying, stealing, cheating, doing drugs and the like wouldn't be recognized for some time anyway.

I grew up in a household like that. I was taught about goodness, not badness. I never knew a person who did truly bad things when I was growing up, not even anyone who separated from their spouse or drank alcohol. My religious background on my mother's side of the family is the same as Janet's and I was taught that people are good, period.
It was a big handicap for me as a young adult because I tended to believe what people said, and I never saw what older, more world- weary people did, such as chronic lying and bad actions.
Because I wasn't taught about the harsh realities of human behavior, I had to learn the hard way, by experiencing the pain of growing.
It's sad, but at least I lived through it, by sheer luck probably.
I found a wonderful man to share my life with after being on my own for a few years and learning through trial and error " The school of hard knocks", that all people aren't always nice or good.

I wish Janet had had the chance to make up her mind, free of the awesome responsibility of a baby on the way ( when she was pregnant with Kaiden and they got back together).
I wish she had made it past Raven and his shady family.

Again, please forgive me for not remembering what it's like to believe the best in all people. Some of this probably goes back to a period of my life that is hard to remember and bring to light.
I truly suffered when I learned or saw bad things about people I dated, was friends with, and especially in my case, older people my parents age whom I considered role models.
I was shy and quiet too, not athletic like Janet, but looked a great deal like her at that age.
I've never told this on the Internet before ( nor to many people in my life) but I think it's relevant and maybe explains my own sense of outrage.
One of the husbands among the good church- going couples I babysat for sexually assualted me when I was 18.

I couldn't tell my father, because those types of things were not discussed between he and I ever. I told my mother, and she thought the man who hurt me was such a fine Christian man that it took years for her to believe me. Actually, it took this " fine man" getting a friend of mine who was my age ( under 21) pregnant and leaving his wife and children for her to consider that her own daughter was telling the truth after all. Not because she thought I was a liar, because I wasn't and hadn't been, but because she could not wrap her mind around that kind of evil. It was all about her need to be in denial.

God bless Janet. Please forgive me.

Janet fell in love with Raven in college, away from their families. She probably had no idea of any negative things that existed in that family. Even after they were married, his family lives in Utah, California, Arizona ... did her path even cross much with theirs?

And remember too that Janet was a shy and quiet girl. She fell in love with this man that seemed larger than life, a man who by all accounts was a charming extrovert; he probably (at one point) made her feel so alive. And once he knew he had her hooked, that's when he probably began to isolate and control her. And once that begins to happen, there are so many psychological factors interacting with each other that it's often impossible for women to remove themselves from that situation. They're isolated (intentionally) to the point that they believe their controlling man when he tells them that no one else will want them, and begin to feel lucky that this man will have them when no one else will. Add a child or children to the mix, and it's virtually cementing the situation.

LTUlegal
03-04-2006, 01:09 PM
Wow, TofLMy thoughts and prayers go out to you.

terminatrixator
03-04-2006, 03:51 PM
TOL, thank you for sharing that with us.

I grew up with a different perspective of humans. My belief growing up was that people sucked and more were inherently evil than good. Raven thought he had it rough, well he doesn't know rough, he doesn't know what it's like to grow up dealing with gangs, violence and the brutality that I have seen in my life and growing up fighting to live, fighting for my life, fighting to make it home from school. I grew up surrounded by violence, crimes and death.

It took me until I was an adult to find out that there are people that DO NOT suck, that there are many people in this world that are good, loving, kind and gentle.

I am, I believe, one of the luckiest people in the world, that now daily, I get to meet, speak with, and call people my friends, like those from Websleuths, and those that do what they can to help Victims and spend their free time seeking justice for others.

However, I'm furious that I will NEVER get the chance to meet Janet because she was taken from this World because of a SENSELESS, CRUEL VISCIOUS PERSON. Janet could have been one more Good Person in my life, but that chance will never happen on this earth now.

I am touched by the things I have heard about Janet, and feel sad, that I will never get the chance to have the opportunity to let one more good person into my life.

Again, TOL thank you for sharing with us, and for all you do in seeking justice for others.

lauriej
03-05-2006, 02:20 AM
Hey RandG - I don't recall ever hearing about Raven working at a place called "Cannon"? Any insights into this? I know early on we were trying to sort out all the place that we KNEW Raven had worked, and the list was long! So I'm curious about "Cannon" and also if there were rumors of embezzlement there as well? Thanks in advance!
..would "cannon" be the canyon bike shop that we've heard of ?

lauriej
03-05-2006, 02:44 AM
..to trix and TOL..........

..your posts touched me beyond belief, the case of "it's always someone else, someone you've never heard of..................."

..i don't "know" either of you of course, and in lieu of posting an essay......................i have to commend both of you for your honesty on this board, i can't possibly imagine that it was easy,it's quite clear to me that janet could have been hiding what was really going on for years........

..i do have to smile though.........to come through what you have as such a fighter, a strong woman...............well done.

terminatrixator
03-13-2006, 08:30 PM
..would "cannon" be the canyon bike shop that we've heard of ?
Is Cannon actually HP or Marketstar?

juliagoulia
03-13-2006, 08:41 PM
It looks like Marketstar sets up sales/alliances with lots of companies, and Canon is one of them.

http://www.marketstar.com/company/management.asp (http://www.marketstar.com/company/management.asp)

"As a 12-year veteran of MarketStar, Forsberg has developed national and international sales strategies for dozens of leading and emerging technology companies including Sony, Cisco, HP, Samsung, Microsoft, Intel and Canon. "

terminatrixator
03-14-2006, 09:04 AM
Thanks Julia that's sort of what I was thinking...One thing solved, now to get a murder solved. =(

Thinkoflaura
03-15-2006, 07:28 PM
Thank you all for what you posted. I wasn't trying to take the emphasis off Janet, just thinking about how a sheltered child and teen thinks and reacts with kindness.

I got help and resolved my feelings of misplaced guilt about what happened to me years ago. I actually thought it was my fault for a few years.

God is good. I lived through it, and am not bitter or untrusting because one person took advantage of my trusting, naive nature.
Janet didn't live through it, and it's hard for me to wonder why this had to happen to her.

terminatrixator
03-15-2006, 07:37 PM
Thank you all for what you posted. I wasn't trying to take the emphasis off Janet, just thinking about how a sheltered child and teen thinks and reacts with kindness.

I got help and resolved my feelings of misplaced guilt about what happened to me years ago. I actually thought it was my fault for a few years.

God is good. I lived through it, and am not bitter or untrusting because one person took advantage of my trusting, naive nature.
Janet didn't live through it, and it's hard for me to wonder why this had to happen to her.
I understand the misplaced guilt TOL very much, I am untrusting but have seen many take advantage of others.

I don't spend my time wondering why this happened to Janet any longer, I know why it happened. It happened because someone is a narcissistic, sociopathic, Murderer, that thinks only of himself. The problem with this is the fact that in the Mormon Faith, when you married you are married for all eternity, but he seemed to forget that is NULL and VOID when you commit murder, and he will be damned for ALL eternity in hell and hopefully on Earth soon.

lauriej
03-16-2006, 02:34 AM
good post trix..........my sentiments exactly:

"he will be damned for ALL eternity in hell and hopefully on Earth soon."

....like the sound of that.......the sooner the better............

caffeinatd
03-24-2006, 10:07 AM
Very new to this, but wonder if the 911 call was sealed by the court? I looked at the NC general stautes, and it appears that if it was not sealed by an official court, than it is public record, although there is an element that says if it identifies witnesses, victims, etc, it does not have to be public, altho on the flip side...that info has been released, just not the actual tape or any actual quotes from it that I can tell. The other thing that is concerning, that if a tape is not sealed, than it can legally be destoyed after 30 days. This may have all been rehashed, It is taking me a long time to get through all of this. Ugh...Here are the GS paragraphs. I think I can post them.

132 1.4. Criminal investigations; intelligence information records…..
c) Notwithstanding the provisions of this section, and unless otherwise prohibited by law, the following information shall be public records within the meaning of G.S. 132 1.
(4) The contents of "911" and other emergency telephone calls received by or on behalf of public law enforcement agencies, except for such contents that reveal the name, address, telephone number, or other information that may identify the caller, victim, or witness.

(i) Law enforcement agencies shall not be required to maintain any tape recordings of "911" or other communications for more than 30 days from the time of the call, unless a court of competent jurisdiction orders a portion sealed.

terminatrixator
03-24-2006, 07:41 PM
Well I guess first thing Monday Morning I need to look into seeing if I can get a copy of it or if it is still available.

lauriej
03-25-2006, 03:56 AM
..if i'm reading this right, then i'm hoping/counting on THIS particular 911 call falling under this part of the NC statute:

(i) Law enforcement agencies shall not be required to maintain any tape recordings of "911" or other communications for more than 30 days from the time of the call, unless a court of competent jurisdiction orders a portion sealed.

..surely a 911 call made that involves a murder will not be destroyed until the murder itself is solved....

OriginalJerseyGirl
03-25-2006, 09:21 AM
..if i'm reading this right, then i'm hoping/counting on THIS particular 911 call falling under this part of the NC statute:

(i) Law enforcement agencies shall not be required to maintain any tape recordings of "911" or other communications for more than 30 days from the time of the call, unless a court of competent jurisdiction orders a portion sealed.

..surely a 911 call made that involves a murder will not be destroyed until the murder itself is solved....

I agree, lauriej. I think that's a "cover your a*s" sort of statute. Look again at this:

the following information shall be public records within the meaning of G.S. 132 1.

(4) The contents of "911" and other emergency telephone calls received by or on behalf of public law enforcement agencies, except for such contents that reveal the name, address, telephone number, or other information that may identify the caller, victim, or witness.

Does that not cover nearly every single 911 call ever made? Public except in the case that it divulges information on the caller, victim, or witness. Sadly, I don't think that we'll get our hands on that call until they are ready to release it. Someone in the media would probably have a much better chance though.

SouthEastSleuth
03-27-2006, 09:59 AM
I agree, lauriej. I think that's a "cover your a*s" sort of statute. Look again at this:

the following information shall be public records within the meaning of G.S. 132 1.

(4) The contents of "911" and other emergency telephone calls received by or on behalf of public law enforcement agencies, except for such contents that reveal the name, address, telephone number, or other information that may identify the caller, victim, or witness.

Does that not cover nearly every single 911 call ever made? Public except in the case that it divulges information on the caller, victim, or witness. Sadly, I don't think that we'll get our hands on that call until they are ready to release it. Someone in the media would probably have a much better chance though.

I agree. And I'm just certain that LE has kept the recording of that call as well. It's still an open homicide, and if nothing else, that 911 call presumably has information on it that could very well come up at trial - Raven reporting that Janet had been "shot."

terminatrixator
03-27-2006, 02:41 PM
I believe so too SES and Jersey. I don't think that would be Public and I do not see them getting rid of that record of the 911 call.

From reading all through the threads there were so much speculation of what was told to LE on that 911 call by "The Rave" and it is still and Open Investigation, and a homicide at that. It is being preserved is my opinion.

caffeinatd
03-28-2006, 05:59 PM
I am not sure how to go about this, and after having read this entire site, I am wondering in light of the nearing 1 yr anniversary, if it would be appropriate to send notes to the local media and LE about the status/silence regarding this case? I don't want to harrass anyone, but also want to feel like my family is relatively safe in this neighborhood. I saw a media writing blitz proposed on one thread here in 1/06 I think, and don't really know what came of that. Please let me know if this would be appropriate. Thanks

terminatrixator
03-29-2006, 01:08 PM
Hi Cafeinatd,

Well since there is going to be a Candlelight Vigil in Durham, NC on April 29, 2006 at 7:00 pm at "The Plaza" at the Marriott Civic Center, I am hoping that there will be attention for this. It states Guest Speakers TBA - and I'm really wondering who is going to be speaking.

I woke up this morning and saw the post here and was excited for the first time in a long time and I went to http://tearsforjanet.com

I hope that they will have media attention there also.

Since you live in the area, perhaps you can go to the site and help by downloading the flyers and printing some off to pass around to those that you know in the area and rounding up as many people as you can to support the family.

I wrote to the Webmaster of T4J to ask if they need my help by faxing the flyers off to local area businesses in Durham, and I am waiting for a response. l will keep you updated if I hear from them.

I won't be able to make the vigil, but will definitely make sure my calendar is clear when the perpetrator of this horrendous crime is brought to Justice.

If you hear any local news on this, please keep us posted, and perhaps if you go you can come to Websleuths and give us some details on it if you go for those that do not live in the area.

caffeinatd
03-29-2006, 09:35 PM
Thanks Trix,

I have printed some of the flyers, I plan to take them to the convenient stores around this neighborhood, post some at work and in this residential area. I will be attending with a few friends. In looking at the Durham Downtown calendar, it looks like there are several events scheduled for that night and weekend, so maybe if the info is out there, lot's of people will come. I sure hope so, wonder if Raven will show?
Hopefully the media will know about it, and cover it.

terminatrixator
03-29-2006, 11:00 PM
Awesome Cafeinatd. I went to the site this evening and they now have more flyers, that are pdf files and it seems the graphics changed a little bit.

There is still no announcement of who is speaking, but I am wondering big-time who it is.

I received an email from webmaster@tearsforjanet.com that said all help is welcomed and if I would like to fax to businesses in Durham, they would appreciate it.

So I guess it is a go.

Caf, I really hope you get a chance to go and will come back and let us know how the vigil went.

I really hope there is some media exposure for it too!

lauriej
04-05-2006, 02:09 AM
Durham Police Dept.
January 24, 2006.

http://www.durhampolice.com/news/pdf/060124_1.pdf

..i was looking around and hadn't recalled seeing this before..

.."In the hours before her death, Janet Abaroa, who was in the early stages of her pregnancy, picked up her child from day care, and went with her husband to drop off her car for repairs...."
.."Raven left at 8:30 , in a Dodge Durango,to play in a soccer game in Morriseville.........................found his wife when he returned".

................surely even raven finds it highly suspect, that in the couple of hours that he's gone------------a stranger ? (doesn't) break in----------murders his wife---------and steals--------oh right, a mere laptop?

...and if janet went with him to the car repair shop------------she drove the acura, they dropped it off........( for what repairs ?? BIG ones ? something they COULD afford?) -----------they all drive home in the durango--------(the only vehicle searched by LE)-----where's the pride and joy VX?

..edit: spelling..........

lauriej
04-05-2006, 02:21 AM
..since raven played soccer that night in morriseville------------it's approx. 19 minutes from durham to morrisevile ( a la'"mapquest")----------how long was he playing soccer ?

http://cdn.mapquest.com/a/a
http://cdn.mapquest.com/mqsite/icon-dirs-start Durham, NC US Revise (http://www.mapquest.com/directions/main.adp?do=nw&mo=ma&2si=gaz&1gi=0&un=m&go=1&2gi=0&1c=Durham&1g=J%2bce1VkqrL0%3d&1l=GzikVT2H8VI%3d&2c=Morrisville&1da=%2d1%2e000000&1rc=A5XAX&cl=EN&1n=Durham&2g=mLpss%2bqJlN4%3d&qq=1ADqpk24ofBgBRijamHU%252fD9pS7UEF9lsEn9NxBWnKYO oMZFDmFqRxL6mgFP33NVCFl6F3WTmrnW21t%252bKXhXdW3o4E gbCYcrsj7QjMhR1wLEsvCWb0iUpfg%253d%253d&1s=NC&2l=8Bt4qKFFwF8%3d&ct=NA&1v=CITY&2n=Wake&r=f&1y=US&1si=gaz&2s=NC&2da=%2d1%2e000000&2rc=A5XAX&2v=CITY&did=1144217898&2y=US&rsres=1&1sb=revise) | New Directions (http://www.mapquest.com/directions/main.adp?do=nw)



http://cdn.mapquest.com/mqsite/icon-dirs-end Morrisville, NC US Revise (http://www.mapquest.com/directions/main.adp?do=nw&mo=ma&2si=gaz&1gi=0&un=m&go=1&2gi=0&1c=Durham&1g=J%2bce1VkqrL0%3d&1l=GzikVT2H8VI%3d&2c=Morrisville&1da=%2d1%2e000000&1rc=A5XAX&cl=EN&1n=Durham&2g=mLpss%2bqJlN4%3d&qq=1ADqpk24ofBgBRijamHU%252fD9pS7UEF9lsEn9NxBWnKYO oMZFDmFqRxL6mgFP33NVCFl6F3WTmrnW21t%252bKXhXdW3o4E gbCYcrsj7QjMhR1wLEsvCWb0iUpfg%253d%253d&1s=NC&2l=8Bt4qKFFwF8%3d&ct=NA&1v=CITY&2n=Wake&r=f&1y=US&1si=gaz&2s=NC&2da=%2d1%2e000000&2rc=A5XAX&2v=CITY&did=1144217898&2y=US&rsres=1&2sb=revise) | New Directions (http://www.mapquest.com/directions/main.adp?do=nw)




Total Est. Time: 19 minutes


Total Est. Distance: 15.02 miles

lauriej
04-05-2006, 02:37 AM
Thanks Trix,

I have printed some of the flyers, I plan to take them to the convenient stores around this neighborhood, post some at work and in this residential area. I will be attending with a few friends. In looking at the Durham Downtown calendar, it looks like there are several events scheduled for that night and weekend, so maybe if the info is out there, lot's of people will come. I sure hope so, wonder if Raven will show?
Hopefully the media will know about it, and cover it.
..i think it's wonderful of you "caffeinatd" to do this!

..the people of durham need to be reminded of this horrible murder and get out there and support justice in their city..

..the 1st vigil in her honour? how could raven possibly NOT show and explain himself ?

..i look forward to hearing all about it from you , take care, and remember that those of us unable to be there, ARE there in spirit with you...

OriginalJerseyGirl
04-27-2006, 08:54 PM
http://www.herald-sun.com/durham/4-728391.html

Family awaits answers in death

By BriAnne Dopart : The Herald-Sun
bdopart@heraldsun.com (bdopart@heraldsun.com)
Apr 26, 2006 : 12:01 am ET

...Although police have not released any updates on the case, Durham police spokeswoman Kammie Michael described the investigation as "still very active" and said that investigators are following several leads. She did not elaborate.

However, Michael said, investigators are still looking for a laptop computer that was missing from the home.

That's the best news I've heard all month. I hope and pray that these leads are solid ones and that combined with the vigil might force something to break in this case very, very soon.

Thinkoflaura
04-27-2006, 11:31 PM
http://www.herald-sun.com/durham/4-728391.html

Family awaits answers in death

By BriAnne Dopart : The Herald-Sun
bdopart@heraldsun.com (bdopart@heraldsun.com)
Apr 26, 2006 : 12:01 am ET

...Although police have not released any updates on the case, Durham police spokeswoman Kammie Michael described the investigation as "still very active" and said that investigators are following several leads. She did not elaborate.

However, Michael said, investigators are still looking for a laptop computer that was missing from the home.

That's the best news I've heard all month. I hope and pray that these leads are solid ones and that combined with the vigil might force something to break in this case very, very soon.

THANK YOU, Jersey Girl. This is wonderful!! I thought they had all forgotten about Janet.
God bless her sweet sister for speaking up as well. :)

I just sent an Email to Ms. Dopart thanking her for writing the update and telling her how many people all over the country are seeking clues and desiring to see successful justice for Janet and her unborn baby.
I also encouraged her to please remember Janet's case and to know that her updates mean a lot.

fran
04-28-2006, 01:10 AM
All of you who have continued to post on this thread are great! This case appeared to have gone cold, but you have all stood your ground.

Isn't this what some of these cases are all about. A voice silenced by someone who thought they weren't important enough to be missed. A voice heard silently my many who didn't even know them in life, yet feel compelled to be sure justice is served.

Sometimes lady justice moves a little slow, but with the help of those behind the blue line, some of these murdering bast#@ds don't stand a chance.

:blowkiss:
fran

terminatrixator
04-28-2006, 07:37 PM
A voice heard silently my many who didn't even know them in life, yet feel compelled to be sure justice is served.

Sometimes lady justice moves a little slow, but with the help of those behind the blue line, some of these murdering bast#@ds don't stand a chance.

:blowkiss:
fran
Fran that is so beautifully stated.

texasgirl
04-29-2006, 07:18 PM
Sorry, I haven't posted in a while but I do still read all of the updates.

I wanted to mention that I went to Janet's website and found the program for the candlelight vigil. WOW! It is very telling IMO.

No mention of Raven as a member of the family (although it lists MANY names) and then on one of the latter pages it states that she was a mother, sister, friend, etc but NOT wife. Isn't that interesting?

Anyway, as posted on another thread---I haven't forgotten Janet and appreciate all of you that keep posting here.

OriginalJerseyGirl
04-30-2006, 06:07 PM
Fran that is so beautifully stated.I couldn't agree more.

terminatrixator
05-01-2006, 09:51 AM
Sorry, I haven't posted in a while but I do still read all of the updates.

I wanted to mention that I went to Janet's website and found the program for the candlelight vigil. WOW! It is very telling IMO.

No mention of Raven as a member of the family (although it lists MANY names) and then on one of the latter pages it states that she was a mother, sister, friend, etc but NOT wife. Isn't that interesting?

Anyway, as posted on another thread---I haven't forgotten Janet and appreciate all of you that keep posting here.
It was very very telling IMO too, but we all know what my opinion is The Bird.......http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/smilies/behindbars.gif belongs here.

terminatrixator
05-10-2006, 05:02 PM
Drove through Durham, got to see a few different places, went to Ferrand, got to see in person where the Vigil was, drove past the Durham Police Station and the Courthouse (have to case the place out for when I come back out here for the trial.)

Durham Marriott - the Plaza is very pretty with a waterfall and I cannot wait to see pictures of the vigil itself. I hope they put them up online. I bet it was pretty with the waterfall.

Time to check out and get to the airport. See you on the other side of the US.

lauriej
05-11-2006, 02:55 AM
wow....i'm glad that you got to do the drive through durham, just hearing of the courthouse has me thinking of the trial------------of course there will be a trial---------i'm sure LE has been building a case against him, raven is big on the ego thing--but i seriously doubt that he's that smart..

too bad that you couldn't have been in NC during the vigil.....sounds like it was beautiful.........i'm very glad that her family and friends were able to celebrate her life as well on the one year anniversary------------------

unbeilevable , that neither raven ( or any of his family members ) were there---------time now, to focus on prosecuting the guilty.

OriginalJerseyGirl
05-16-2006, 11:19 AM
There's always hope:

... this week, Raisch was convicted in the coldest murder case in Olathe. Twenty-three years ago, her first husband, David Harmon, was bludgeoned to death in his bed.

Raisch claimed two intruders had attacked Harmon looking for the keys to the bank where he worked. She claimed the intruders also hit her, and when she regained consciousness an hour later, she fled to her neighbors to report the crime.

Police soon found holes in the story and began to suspect she might know more. But they were unable to make any progress, and with few additional leads, the case went cold.

"This case was sort of an open wound to this community of Olathe," said Johnson County District Attorney Paul Morrison.

"It was a very, very brutal homicide, it was a senseless murder of a young man that had a lot going for him. Very religious, responsible good guy..."

Police hunted for clues — and time and again they found themselves turning to Melinda and (family "friend") Mangelsdorf as the only two people with any possible link or motive. But they could never find any physical evidence to support their suspicions.

Followed by a cloud of suspicion, both eventually left town...

(Continued at link)

ABC News: Cold Case Pinned on Soccer Mom (http://a.abcnews.com/Primetime/LegalCenter/story?id=732881&page=1)

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - Cold Case Pinned on Ohio Soccer Mom (http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39422)

OriginalJerseyGirl
05-16-2006, 11:52 PM
Another interesting case:

Son charged in Porco murder -- Page 1 -- TimesUnion.com (http://timesunion.com/AspStories/story.asp?storyID=416250&categ&TextPage=2)

November 4, 2005

Christopher Porco was charged today with murdering his father and attempting to kill his mother, nearly a year after authorities say he staged a break-in at his parents Delmar home and beat them..

The murder charge was part of an indictment handed up this afternoon by a grand jury that began reviewing evidence in the case last year.

The grand jury's decision came following a sprawling investigation involving more than two dozen law enforcement agencies...

Christopher Porco became an immediate suspect, authorities said, after his mother identified him as the assailant when police and paramedics found her badly bludgeoned in her bed. The murder weapon ... was left behind, but fingerprints or other incriminating forensic clues to the suspect were never found.

Instead, detectives have spent the last year piecing together what they have admitted is a largely circumstantial case that alleges Christopher Porco drove home from his dormitory at the University of Rochester and attacked his parents, returning to school early that morning and attempting to make it appear he'd never left school...

Before losing consciousness and lapsing into a coma, Christopher's mother identified him as the attacker, and four paramedics have backed this up. (Interestingly, when Christopher was interrogated shortly after the attack, he was calm and asked if his mother was able to speak.) When his mother came out of the coma, she had no recollection. However, Christopher was a suspect from the beginning. None of his dorm mates saw him during the time in question, his vehicle was seen on campus footage leaving campus late at night the night of the murders. His car was also reported using EZ Pass during the early hours of the morning of his parents' attack (conveniently, it was after all of his dorm mates had gone to sleep), and a toll booth operator identified him as having passed through the toll that night. A neighbor of his parents reported seeing his Jeep in their driveway on the night of the murders. Christopher had forged his father's signature to obtain a $32,000 loan without his parents' knowledge to pay his college tuition and buy himself that Jeep. LE had e-mails that were sent back and forth between Chris and his father, and in one of them, the father stated that he was going to turn Chris in for forging his signature. There was a burgular alarm in the house that was deactivated with a passcode on the night of the murders. Some computers that had been stolen from the Porco home years before were traced and found to have been sold on e-bay by Christopher Porco. Even the murder weapon was left at the scene - that murder weapon being a tool that belonged to the Porcos and was apparently in the garage at the home (the killer broke into this home with brutal murder on his mind yet didn't bring his own weapon; was counting on this couple having a suitable weapon in their garage)? Yet with all of this, it took a year to get an indictment. A snippet from another article:

WTEN, Albany, NY: New Porco Information (http://www.wten.com/Global/story.asp?S=4135804)

... Law enforcement sources say that the intruder who murdered Peter Porco ... and horribly mutilated his wife, Joan ... was able to gain entry by entering the family's own security code and disable the alarm system.

Later, the intruder smashed the alarm's LCD display to make it look like a burglary. But the intruder left behind a computer chip in the basement containing information on how entry actually was gained...

And finally:

(Albany District Attorney) David Soares said, "We want to make sure everything, all our i's are dotted, our t's are crossed before we takes steps of presenting a case to a grand jury and ask them to vote."

A new development in the murder of a Delmar law clerk (http://www.wnyt.com/x5679.xml?ag=x995&sb=x183)

I believe that Janet's case will be solved. Like the Porco case, I believe that it already has been solved. It's just a matter of time before the perp is charged. Dotting the i's and crossing the t's ...