Marauding pit bulls attack six - 10 year old boy, Critical

[Casshew]

Child In Stable Condition; Scalp Found In Dog's Stomach
HODGENVILLE, Ky. -- A 4-year-old Kentucky girl is lucky to be alive after a gruesome attack by the family's pit bull.

The attack happened Monday night at the child's home in Hodgenville, in Larue County, Louisville television station WLKY As Emily Page Stinnett remains in stable condition at Louisville's Kosair Children's Hospital, Larue County Sheriff Bobby Shoffer struggles to remember an attack as gruesome as Monday's.

"It's the worst I've seen in my 17 years of law enforcement," he said.

Shoffer added that when he and his colleagues responded to the Stinnet's home, they saw a blood-spattered doghouse in the backyard, Miller reported. And the pit bull hadn't seemed to calm down since the attack. The deputies then took action.

"When we got at the scene, the child was in the backyard just a few feet from the dog," Shoffer said. "EMS was called, and they responded. The dog apparently was still aggressive and it wouldn't let EMS near the child, so the dog had to be put down."

Stinnett and another girl were swinging on the swingset with the pit bull chained and staked just 7 feet away, WLKY-TV reported.

Shoffer said something provoked the dog, and it snapped, pulling its stake as it lunged at the girl and biting her face just above the eyebrow.

"I guess you would say she was more or less scalped," Shoffer said. "She had some puncture wounds to her stomach."

According to Shoffer, the dog then dragged the little girl around the yard as she screamed for help. Her stepmother ran to Emily's aid, but the dog would not let her near the little girl. According to investigators, the stepmother took off in her car to get a neighbor to help rescue little the girl.

"These dogs are unpredictable," Shoffer said. "The least little thing ... the dog could be happy one minute, and the next minute they go absolutely crazy. Anybody that has young children (needs) to make sure the dog is chained or properly fenced in."

http://www.thelouisvillechannel.com/news/3243296/detail.html

[Ike]

How terrible, I feel for the poor little girl. The insurance company I work for will not insure a person's home if they own a pitt bull because of the liability risk.

[MysteryMomma]

Scary stuff. Why do people need to own dogs like these? I know it is a free county but jeez. One irresponsible owner and a child is dead or scarred for life.

[Wrangler]

You can blame the breeders too. They inbred these dogs to make them meaner. A pitbull that isn't inbred, or is mixed with another breed can be a great dog that never turns on it's owner or the children. It's the purebreds that have these type of problems IMO.

[LP Moderator]

I'm sure that little girl's step mother was probably in shock, but my God, she left to get help? Was there nothing she could hit that dog with anywhere near by? A butcher knife? A shovel? NOTHING???

[KatzHome]

I just don't understand people who have to have killer animals... Even a peaceful loving dog will fight to save it's family ~ so it's not about protection ~ I think that killer pets fulfill some sort of sick need ~ maybe insecurity or something....

[becca]

How terrible, I feel for the poor little girl. The insurance company I work for will not insure a person's home if they own a pitt bull because of the liability risk.

I have trouble with insurance because I have a Rottie and a Chow mix....

pitbulls are another thing. They should be kept away from children. They are way too unpredictable.

[MysteryMomma]

How terrible, I feel for the poor little girl. The insurance company I work for will not insure a person's home if they own a pitt bull because of the liability risk.

Some airlines wont crate ship certain types of dogs. Not just the well known biters. Chows were on the list of dogs they will not transport.

I grew up with a chow and she didn't bite us but man no one was allowed on our property, per the dog. We had to chain her up when company came over.

[becca]

Some airlines wont crate ship certain types of dogs. Not just the well known biters. Chows were on the list of dogs they will not transport.

I grew up with a chow and she didn't bite us but man no one was allowed on our property, per the dog. We had to chain her up when company came over.

My chow mix is just the opposite of most, he'd welcome anyone in and then show them where the silver is. Of course my Rottie would help them carry it out. Its all in their breeding and how they are brought up. Mine think they are kids.... then again they are to me.

[Hugh]

After several of these attacks the UK goverment outlawed the owning of these dogs under the Dangerous Dogs Act. Any dogs found are destroyed and the owners fined or imprisoned. I think they are magnificent physical specimens but they are bred to fight and therefore although I can admire them they should not really be around in this day and age.

[Babcat]

After several of these attacks the UK goverment outlawed the owning of these dogs under the Dangerous Dogs Act. Any dogs found are destroyed and the owners fined or imprisoned. I think they are magnificent physical specimens but they are bred to fight and therefore although I can admire them they should not really be around in this day and age.

I applaud the UK with gusto for this decision. I wish the US government would have the guts to do the same.

Pit bulls aren't even a "real" dog breed. They were created, essentially over the last thirty years by mixing English Bull Dogs (a breed that consequently is also a mix of two breeds, the original large Bull-Dog and the Chinese Pug) and terriers. It doesn't really seem to matter which terrier gets thrown in the gene cauldron along with the Bull Dogs. They still get called Pit Bulls. :rolleyes: There actually is a breed that has been legitimized and is called The American Pit Bull. But nearly none of these "backyard breeder atrocities" that we see all the time, everywhere, are legitimate bloodline descendants of any of the official breed. Instead they are closer to a volatile mix of aggressive, non-desirable flaws... because mean, stupid dogs fight better and to the death. They actually carry the term "pit" in their breed name because originally they fought rats in a pit. Now they fight each other in a repulsive display that nets big bucks for criminal types. :sick:

Why anyone would be moronic enough to own one of these stupid, potential killing machines as a "family pet" boggles the mind. It ought to be child abuse to have one and also have a child. :mad:

This part of the story made me physically ill... as well as confused... :confused:

Once the girl was transported to Kosair, doctors there told the sheriff that child's hair and scalp had to be found and delivered or she would die. Shoffer said he had to cut the dog's stomach open to find the scalp, which was then rushed to the hospital, WLKY reported.

Family members told WLKY that the doctors reattached the majority of the scalp, but added that the girl still might face more surgeries.

I guess time spent in the digestive juices of a dog's stomach doesn't deform a scalp with hair... or even contaminate it with bacteria just itching to cause major infection!! :eek: Just a good size dose of Dial anti-bacterial soap and "Houston, we have go"... huh? :confused:

[Ike]

I have trouble with insurance because I have a Rottie and a Chow mix....

pitbulls are another thing. They should be kept away from children. They are way too unpredictable.


Rottweilers and Chows are also included on our list of "uninsurable dogs" along with any type of wolf hybrid.

I've been around alot of these types of dogs with no problem. However, overall they are known for being aggressive and alot of insurance companies will not insure you if you have them.

[becca]

Rottweilers and Chows are also included on our list of "uninsurable dogs" along with any type of wolf hybrid.

I've been around alot of these types of dogs with no problem. However, overall they are known for being aggressive and alot of insurance companies will not insure you if you have them.

Thanks to the AKC and the work they do, I knew what companies to avoid.
They have a chart on their website http://www.akc.org/love/dip/legislat/insurance_chart0702.cfm
that helps.
Some companies want the vet to verify a mixed breed isn't more of one breed than another. I can't even imagine asking my vet to do that for Bear. He's a chow/shepard mix , it won't do a bit of good to pay for that test.He's a very gentle dog with everything and everyone except the bunny.

[Ike]

Thanks to the AKC and the work they do, I knew what companies to avoid.
They have a chart on their website http://www.akc.org/love/dip/legislat/insurance_chart0702.cfm
that helps.
Some companies want the vet to verify a mixed breed isn't more of one breed than another. I can't even imagine asking my vet to do that for Bear. He's a chow/shepard mix , it won't do a bit of good to pay for that test.He's a very gentle dog with everything and everyone except the bunny.

How interesting, thank you for sharing that! The company I work for, American Family Insurance, isn't on the list. We are only in thirteen states so that may have something to do with it.

[Elf]

I have trouble with insurance because I have a Rottie and a Chow mix....

pitbulls are another thing. They should be kept away from children. They are way too unpredictable.
Nope. Wrangler is right. A well-bred Pitbull is one of the most docile (to humans anyway), playful, loyal dogs a person could own. They are very active and requite LOTS of exercise and playtime and even climb trees.

I had a wonderful pitbull who died of a heart attack a few months ago. My brother used to be a breeder and still owns his stud and one of his daughters. My children have done to them what children always do (pull ears, jump on them...) and they take it like it's a big game.

It is true that unscrupulous breeders inbreed and the results can be disastrous. It gives the whole breed a bad name. But if you are lucky enough to know one that is well bred, then you know that most pitbulls are just happy-go-lucky little clowns. (Just keep them away from other animals! They DO NOT have to be trained or given weird things to make them want to fight other dogs. They were bred like that and it's hundreds of years of instinct that make them do it).

[Casshew]

I and glad I live where this breed is BANNED! :hand:


A 10-year-old boy was in critical condition Sunday after three pit bulls escaped from a home and went on a rampage, attacking six people before police shot and killed dogs, authorities said.

Neighbors said the attacks started late Saturday afternoon when children going door-to-door for a fund-raiser arrived at the home of Scott Sword, 41, who owned the dogs.

"We had music playing, and I heard this bizarre sound," said Debby Rivera, who lives three houses away. "I looked out the window, and I saw a young boy. The dogs were just jumping on him."

"The screams were horrible," she said. The dogs were "relentless, like they were possessed."

The pit bulls attacked the two children, and when the dogs' owner tried to stop them, the dogs turned on him and bit off his thumb, Nygren said. The boy's father also tried to protect his son and was attacked. The dogs went after another neighbor as well.

"The scene sprawled over a couple blocks; it was a very chaotic scene," said Lt. Michael Douglas of the Cary Fire Protection District.

Residents threw rocks at the dogs and honked car horns to try to distract them from attacking before police arrived and shot the animals.

Jim Malone said he and a neighbor tried to beat the dogs back with baseball bats. "He'd hit them, they'd run, and they'd come back," Malone said. "This went on for 15 minutes."

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/11/06/pit.bulls.ap/index.html

[BarnGoddess]

The attack mentioned in the last half of the story has been big news here in Colorado. Just horrible and disgusting.

http://www.9news.com/acm_news.aspx?OSGNAME=KUSA&IKOBJECTID=534e4197-0abe-421a-01f4-115f2522d7ac&TEMPLATEID=0c76dce6-ac1f-02d8-0047-c589c01ca7bf

These dogs were moved out of Denver where there is a recent pit bull ban and moved to Aurora, a nearby suburb of Denver. These things make you sick to hear about them.

[Hbgchick]

The dogs themselves are not the problem. It is the irresponsible owners and the people who train them to attack and fight that are the problem.

[BarnGoddess]

The dogs themselves are not the problem. It is the irresponsible owners and the people who train them to attack and fight that are the problem.
Hearing that said over and over, I still don't think Pit Bulls need to be kept as pets in the city. Supposedly these dogs were not trained to be attack or fighting dogs, but just "pets". Over and over, we hear of so much destruction and heartache these dogs cause.

Notice these attacks seem to happen when there are more than one pit bull in the household. Sometimes it could be one pit bull, but dogs of other breeds in the house. To trust them around children is just asking for it.

I know all dogs can bite, but pit bulls have the reputation for vicious and continuing attacks that lead to death. Why not get a dog with a milder bred personality, especially with children in the home.

Years ago we had a beautiful female collie for our two young boys. She played with them, guarded them, pulled them out of the street and pushed them home when I called them in for meals. She went everywhere with us. Once a young kid put his face up against the car window and said something like "hiya dog" and since the boys were in the back seat with her, she let this kid know that he needed to back off. Never tried to bite, but she held her ground between the boys and bared her teeth until he left. Yet she never did it when all the neighborhood kids were out playing with her. Even little squabbles, she'd try to "settle" in her gentle way. Collies, labs, retrievers can be wonderful family pets. Why on earth would someone buy a pit bull for a family dog, when these other large breeds can make better pets?

[Hbgchick]

Hearing that said over and over, I still don't think Pit Bulls need to be kept as pets in the city. Supposedly these dogs were not trained to be attack or fighting dogs, but just "pets". Over and over, we hear of so much destruction and heartache these dogs cause.

Notice these attacks seem to happen when there are more than one pit bull in the household. Sometimes it could be one pit bull, but dogs of other breeds in the house. To trust them around children is just asking for it.

I know all dogs can bite, but pit bulls have the reputation for vicious and continuing attacks that lead to death. Why not get a dog with a milder bred personality, especially with children in the home.

Years ago we had a beautiful female collie for our two young boys. She played with them, guarded them, pulled them out of the street and pushed them home when I called them in for meals. She went everywhere with us. Once a young kid put his face up against the car window and said something like "hiya dog" and since the boys were in the back seat with her, she let this kid know that he needed to back off. Never tried to bite, but she held her ground between the boys and bared her teeth until he left. Yet she never did it when all the neighborhood kids were out playing with her. Even little squabbles, she'd try to "settle" in her gentle way. Collies, labs, retrievers can be wonderful family pets. Why on earth would someone buy a pit bull for a family dog, when these other large breeds can make better pets?
Depending on where you're talking about, I don't think ANY dog over 15lbs should be kept in a city without room to run and play. Taking a walk on a leash along a cement sidewalk twice a day just doesn't cut it.

I don't disagree with you totally, but I really think that pit bulls have gotten a bad rep. As you say, "have the reputation for vicious and continuing attacks that lead to death". I think a lot of (not all) people who own pit bulls LIKE that they are "bred to attack", and actually have done the breeding themselves. I also think that if you do not raise a dog from a puppy, you can't really guarantee what they'll do given a certain situation. I definitely do agree with you in that I would absolutely not choose a pit bull as a pet unless I had raised it from a puppy, and even then I would keep him restrained in the fenced in forest we have behind our house for our dogs to run.

I think a lot of these "attacks" are a combination of at least three and maybe four things - first of all, very often the dogs are found to have been TRAINED to attack or fight, in which case they're only doing what they do (they have been adopted and the family does not know it's true history). Secondly, I have seen many of these "vicious dog" stories which end up more like "people teased dog and got bitten" stories. Third, I know that often if a dog thinks it's master is danger for any reason - as in your collie's situation - they will protect them. Who is to say what the collie would have done if she had not been restrained in the back seat by her diligent owner? And fourth, a dog, or dogs, should not be kept 24 hours a day restrained. That would get to anyone, don't you think? If you've got two large pit bulls in a small city apartment, can't blame them for getting a little uptight. But again, I think the PEOPLE are more to blame than the dog.

I think if there were a real and true study done, it would find that very, very few "attack dog" stories are of just a normal, everyday pet suddenly "going wrong" and attacking a totally innocent human being.

[eve]

The dogs themselves are not the problem. It is the irresponsible owners and the people who train them to attack and fight that are the problem.


The owners exploit this breed's predisposition for violence. They have a rep for turning on humans. They seem to be wired that way. I would never trust one.

This child lived at this home, right? He was climbing over his own fence -- why didn't the dog recognize him/ his scent? My dad was a veterinarian. He believed that once a dog, any dog, any breed, crossed the line and bit a human being, it should be put down, no questions asked. Even a good trained watchdog should only go so far as necessary to warn someone off, before attacking. IMO.

My youngest has been attacked twice by dogs, in the face. Luckily scars were minimal and he healed really well. I will never forget how cavalier the dog owners were about this, in both cases. He was only 3 the first time and 4 1/2 the next, and no, he didn't provoke the dogs. He was just the wrong height and a friendly little boy. The Dalmation that bit him was leashed at the time and the owners didn't even apologize. Ou physician said many bites in kids are caused by Dalmations, which surprised me. My son had just seen the movie.

This same son of mine (now 13) has a friend with a pit bull. Given his history with dog bites, I do not even want him at the kid's house, even though my son swears it is a nice dog. I would never trust a pit bull. Never.

For the life I me, I do not know why people don't get it through their heads that pit bulls should not be pets.

Eve

[Casshew]

. Our physician said many bites in kids are caused by Dalmations, which surprised me.
Chihuahua's bite more that pitbulls or Dalmations- but biting and ripping someones throat out is not the same thing.

This breed bites to kill.

[Nore]

I and glad I live where this breed is BANNED! :hand:


A 10-year-old boy was in critical condition Sunday after three pit bulls escaped from a home and went on a rampage, attacking six people before police shot and killed dogs, authorities said.

Neighbors said the attacks started late Saturday afternoon when children going door-to-door for a fund-raiser arrived at the home of Scott Sword, 41, who owned the dogs.

"We had music playing, and I heard this bizarre sound," said Debby Rivera, who lives three houses away. "I looked out the window, and I saw a young boy. The dogs were just jumping on him."

"The screams were horrible," she said. The dogs were "relentless, like they were possessed."

The pit bulls attacked the two children, and when the dogs' owner tried to stop them, the dogs turned on him and bit off his thumb, Nygren said. The boy's father also tried to protect his son and was attacked. The dogs went after another neighbor as well.

"The scene sprawled over a couple blocks; it was a very chaotic scene," said Lt. Michael Douglas of the Cary Fire Protection District.

Residents threw rocks at the dogs and honked car horns to try to distract them from attacking before police arrived and shot the animals.

Jim Malone said he and a neighbor tried to beat the dogs back with baseball bats. "He'd hit them, they'd run, and they'd come back," Malone said. "This went on for 15 minutes."

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/11/06/pit.bulls.ap/index.html
-----------------

Casshew,they are banned where I live also.There was a case where` a person in our city was dog sitting a Pit,Rottwieler (sp) and one other dog.They escaped from the yard and mauled an elderly man who died after surgery.The people caring for the dogs were charged.I cannot understand why people want this breed.Oh they are sweet if raised right~Yeah right! tell that to someone who has been mauled..

[BarnGoddess]

I always get puppies. I do not adopt full grown dogs. Our collie was purchased as a pup. Bonnie was perfect the day we brought her home. We had to go out that night and introduced her to the baby sitter. When we came home, she told us that Bonnie had gone to lay under the crib when she put our 18 month old to sleep. She never left until we got home. If it were just me in the car with her, she wouldn't have reacted that way, just when the boys were there. Once, I left her to go to a neighbor to play cards. The men were gathering at my house to watch football and were just coming up the walk when I walked out. Next think I know, they came over and said that Bonnie wouldn't let them in the house. She was at the door barking at them. Never tried to attack, but just wouldn't let them in. She knew the neighbors, but still, said they couldn't come in unless I said it was ok. Once I did that, she made a pest of herself wanting them all to pet her and feed her nibbles. Definietly not the same reaction as that what happened to that little boy.

By the way, earlier stories on the little Colorado boy, show that the dogs had been there only about a week. They left those dogs in the backyard with no adult home. The little boy was often locked out of the house when he came home from school. I would imagine his normal behavior was to go to the backyard of his own home.

Absolutely irresponsible owners. No doubt in my mind about that. There were also puppies in the house according to the news.

[Nore]

Chihuahua's bite more that pitbulls or Dalmations- but biting and ripping someones throat out is not the same thing.

This breed bites to kill.
-------------------------

Casshew you hit the nail on the head.They bite to kill.They have also been known to turn on their Master after having a good upbringing..as in being raised from 5 weeks.Their jaws lock and it's over.I dont care what anyone says I would not have one near my greatgrandson!!

[BarnGoddess]

Chihuahua's bite more that pitbulls or Dalmations- but biting and ripping someones throat out is not the same thing.

This breed bites to kill.
I absolutely agree 100%. And as Nore said, those jaws lock and you just don't get them open.

[eve]

-------------------------

Casshew you hit the nail on the head.They bite to kill.They have also been known to turn on their Master after having a good upbringing..as in being raised from 5 weeks.Their jaws lock and it's over.I dont care what anyone says I would not have one near my greatgrandson!!

This is the problem, they have no "loyalty" -- pit bulls are known to turn on their own masters -- they are wired for fighting no matter how they're raised and will revert to this kind of behavior with no visible provocation. They are unpredictable and have a propensity for violence and when they go for it, they go for the throat, literally.

Eve

[Nore]

was buried today in Cleveland Ohio.His father is under arrest.The (so called) father scalded the boy with hot water,threw him in the basement with I beliieve it was 6 Pit Bulls.The boy died at Metro hospital.I hope this "father" (I want to swear) gets life in prison or better yet hope it can go death penalty. Oh I have to! Dirty Ba*#%^d

[Hbgchick]

was buried today in Cleveland Ohio.His father is under arrest.The (so called) father scalded the boy with hot water,threw him in the basement with I beliieve it was 6 Pit Bulls.The boy died at Metro hospital.I hope this "father" (I want to swear) gets life in prison or better yet hope it can go death penalty. Oh I have to! Dirty Ba*#%^d
Good Lord.

[SadieMae]

Hearing that said over and over, I still don't think Pit Bulls need to be kept as pets in the city. Supposedly these dogs were not trained to be attack or fighting dogs, but just "pets". Over and over, we hear of so much destruction and heartache these dogs cause.

Notice these attacks seem to happen when there are more than one pit bull in the household. Sometimes it could be one pit bull, but dogs of other breeds in the house. To trust them around children is just asking for it.

I know all dogs can bite, but pit bulls have the reputation for vicious and continuing attacks that lead to death. Why not get a dog with a milder bred personality, especially with children in the home.

Years ago we had a beautiful female collie for our two young boys. She played with them, guarded them, pulled them out of the street and pushed them home when I called them in for meals. She went everywhere with us. Once a young kid put his face up against the car window and said something like "hiya dog" and since the boys were in the back seat with her, she let this kid know that he needed to back off. Never tried to bite, but she held her ground between the boys and bared her teeth until he left. Yet she never did it when all the neighborhood kids were out playing with her. Even little squabbles, she'd try to "settle" in her gentle way. Collies, labs, retrievers can be wonderful family pets. Why on earth would someone buy a pit bull for a family dog, when these other large breeds can make better pets?I have 4 Great Danes, and they are all extremely gentle with children. They just don't have an aggressive bone in them. I don't understand why people even have pit bulls. Even though my children are older teenagers, I STILL wouldn't trust having one in my home. They might seem alright but it seems they "snap" and become dangerous. No way would I want one in my neighborhood. My next door neighbor had one 5 years ago. It jumped the fence and attacked the 2 Danes I had at the time. They fought her off and I managed to open the gate to get her out. Luckily my dogs had no serious wounds. That dog later hung itself when my neighbor kept her on a chain, and it tried to go over the fence to another neighbor's yard. Occasionally someone forgets to close my gate and my dogs will get out, but it's nothing for a 6 year old see them and to bring them home. All the kids around me know my dogs. As much as I love animals, I was not sorry the pit bull died. I worried that the dog would jump the fence and attack a child one day. Don't think I've ever heard of a case of a Great Dane attacking. With all of mine all you have to say is "Boo" to them and they run and hide, such big wussies!!

I adopted one of my Danes as a 3 year old. He's the sweetest of all, even after being severely abused by his previous owner. So a lot has to do with temperament of the breed.

[reb]

i am so sick to death of this "ohh, the poor little puppies, they are so misunderstood"... BS i could puke. and i'm an animal (esp dog) lover!!!

the problem may be the people, BUT ULTIMATELY THE PROBLEM IS STILL THE DOGS. it is the dogs that are attacking people (& other dogs/animals) and tearing them to shreds in the end, am i right? so, therefore, that is the problem.

it's true that we now unfortunately have a country full of anti-social, drug-dealing, drug-using, ghettofied, white trash/back trash/trailer trash/ whatever-trash thugs & thug wanna be's who train them to be vicious, breed them indiscriminately, fight them and don't socialize them... so the problem IS with these idiotic people. BUT THE PROBLEM IS- ALSO- STILL THE DOGS.

yes, of course there are some nice sweet pit bulls out there. but the fact is, PIT BULLS ARE STILL A PROBLEM!

the fact that pit bull-defenders are in total denial of is that CERTAIN DOGS WERE BRED TO DO CERTAIN THINGS. PIT BULLS WERE BRED TO FIGHT AND KILL. THAT IS WHY THEY HAVE BIG STRONG JAWS & ARE ALL MUSCLE. SO YES, THEY HAVE A GENETIC PREDISPOSITION TO FIGHT TO KILL. THAT'S THE QUALITY THAT WAS BRED TO BE HARD-WIRED INTO THEIR BRAINS AND BODIES. (i can just hear a crowd whining now, "shut up, it is NOT!")

and, that is why so many of them SNAP without warning and attack other dogs & people, and cannot be stopped until their "prey" is dead.

there are countless stories such as the following one i am about to tell you:

a dog rescue person i know of HAD RAISED A PIT BULL FROM BIRTH to be sweet, loving, docile, etc. etc. etc... and it just adored her other dog, an old one she had for 14 years.. they were best buddies. one day without warning, she came home and found her old dog on the floor, near dead, bleeding everywhere, after being mauled by the pit bull. the PB stood there like, "oops, what did i do??" she had to put her older dog to sleep.

and of course, this is what happens to peoples' children.

i have also been in my vets several times when someone was dropping off or picking up their dog for surgery, after being mauled by one of these things. NOT a pretty sight.

my question is, with all the wonderful dogs out there, WHY on earth do you need a freaking pit bull, of all things?? why go looking for trouble?

the fact is, most people have them to look tough and scary, and because it's controversial and rebellious. AND because they ARE capable of doing serious damage.

the rest of the people are in denial just because they feel sorry for the dogs, and perhaps have one of their own who happens to be very sweet & harmless.

human beings could very easily breed out the viciousness and physical ability to do major harm out of these dogs, and keep their good qualities, if we made a concentrated effort- it IS possible, in theory. but the fact is, there's soo many idiots out there who keep breeding their fighting dogs to be more & more vicious... and there's just too d*mn many of these dogs out there now... so i don't think that's going to happen.

[reb]

by the way, i hope they ban them where i live (and any other vicious fighting-type dogs a thug would want).. sorry, but i would be all for it, even though i have 3 rescued dogs. the local dog pounds are just overflowing with PB's, no wonder they have to put so many down every day? what, are they supposed to find homes for them all??? yeah, right.

of course, it would take a few kids getting shredded to death before that would ever happen.

it should also be a crime to breed them, in my not-so-humble opinion!

[SadieMae]

, PIT BULLS WERE BRED TO FIGHT AND KILL. THAT IS WHY THEY HAVE BIG STRONG JAWS & ARE ALL MUSCLE. SO YES, THEY HAVE A GENETIC PREDISPOSITION TO FIGHT TO KILL. THAT'S THE QUALITY THAT WAS BRED TO BE HARD-WIRED INTO THEIR BRAINS AND BODIES. (i can just \, loving, docile, etc. etc. etc... and it just adored her other dog, an old

human beings could very easily breed out the viciousness and physical ability to do major harm out of these dogs, and keep their good qualities, if we made a concentrated effort- it IS possible, in theory. but the fact is, there's soo many idiots out there who keep breeding their fighting dogs to be more & more vicious... and there's just too d*mn many of these dogs out there now... so i don't think that's going to happen.
I agree 100%. It was done to Great Danes. Ages ago Danes were used as guard/attack/watch dogs. The aggressive behavior was BRED out of them so that the majority of them are gentle, docile family pets. As I stated in my previous post, I have never heard about a Great Dane attacking or mauling anyone. Imagine what a dog that size could do to a person if it had aggressive behavior! The lightest weight Dane I have is about 140#, my big baby Kong is just under 160#.

[reb]

i think a lot of large breed dogs were bred to just LOOK imposing, but not necessarily to do a lot of harm, am i right?

it kills me when people say "more poodles bite than any other dog"... well, DUH, maybe so but how many have you heard about ripping someone's face off?? LOL! please! or grouping together in a pack and attacking a child? can you imagine? kind of funny to think about... the poor kid might even have to get a few band-aids out! LOL!

[SadieMae]

by the way, i hope they ban them where i live (and any other vicious fighting-type dogs a thug would want).. sorry, but i would be all for it, even though i have 3 rescued dogs. the local dog pounds are just overflowing with PB's, no wonder they have to put so many down every day? what, are they supposed to find homes for them all??? yeah, right.

of course, it would take a few kids getting shredded to death before that would ever happen.

it should also be a crime to breed them, in my not-so-humble opinion!
In many places if it's a PB it's automatically put down. They're not adoptable.

[TheShadow]

In the city where I live, the SPCA will spay or neuter anyone's pit bulls and pit bull mixes for no charge. It is an attempt to reduce the backyard breeding of this breed. Accidental breeding and backyard breeders are the source for most of the dangerous pit bulls around here. Less PB puppies, less PB's. Hopefully this free program will spread to other cities throughout the country.

[reb]

and believe me, it IS sad for the dog, i do feel sorry for them and the sorry predicament that human stupidity has put them in. in the pound i have seen the sad faces of the "condemned", they know they are on "the list".. and it breaks your heart. however, there are many other dogs in there that are much more desirable, dependable, and safe to have as a pet. at least, the pits are not going to be neglected, abused, or have to suffer any more.

[reb]

sadie-
WOW,, too bad cities don't have free spaying/neutering for ALL cats & dogs!!

btw, any plans to have a program like this for humans.........??

[SadieMae]

In the city where I live, the SPCA will spay or neuter anyone's pit bulls and pit bull mixes for no charge. It is an attempt to reduce the backyard breeding of this breed. Accidental breeding and backyard breeders are the source for most of the dangerous pit bulls around here. Less PB puppies, less PB's. Hopefully this free program will spread to other cities throughout the country.
Free or not, the people breeding those dogs to fight aren't interested in that. They're in it for the money! I doubt it would decrease the number of dogs being bred for fighting purposes.

[Jeana (DP)]

-------------------------

Casshew you hit the nail on the head.They bite to kill.They have also been known to turn on their Master after having a good upbringing..as in being raised from 5 weeks.Their jaws lock and it's over.I dont care what anyone says I would not have one near my greatgrandson!!


Absolutely. The dog can be hand raised from birth and there is absolutely no way to know that he won't turn and bite one day. They're a completely unnecessary breed.

[SadieMae]

sadie-
WOW,, too bad cities don't have free spaying/neutering for ALL cats & dogs!!

btw, any plans to have a program like this for humans.........??
Geeze Reb, since I joined this forum I WISH!!! The stories I've read here I wish we did have a program to spay/neuter or automatically put down some "humans".

[BarnGoddess]

I agree 100%. It was done to Great Danes. Ages ago Danes were used as guard/attack/watch dogs. The aggressive behavior was BRED out of them so that the majority of them are gentle, docile family pets. As I stated in my previous post, I have never heard about a Great Dane attacking or mauling anyone. Imagine what a dog that size could do to a person if it had aggressive behavior! The lightest weight Dane I have is about 140#, my big baby Kong is just under 160#.
This and your above post about saying "Boo" to a Great Dane. I have a friend who calls her Dane, her "cowardly couch potato". I've heard about their timid and lazy natures.

Every dog should have a job, even if it's only as the family clown, cuddler or lap companion. Most breeds are bred for jobs. I have three different dogs presently. Our 1/2 border collie 1/2 blue heeler is a fantastic cattle dog, by instinct. We never taught him a thing, he just does it. Our Welsh Corgi is learning to heel, but still a pup. Lastly, our Shi' Tzu is the best footwarmer in the business.

The best Collie I owned, Bonnie, would have been lost without children around. She thrived with them, not just ours, but all those in the neighborhood. Many times kids would come over to see if Bonnie could come out and play. They usually brought her back sooner than they wanted to because she herded them and wouldn't let them run all over the place. They were her own personal little herd of sheep. To her they needed to be kept together and in her sight at all times. Absolutely the greatest dog to have around children. Another Collie we had loved to play football with the kids. They'd get him to line up with him and he'd tackle for them. I have that on video. Of course he'd tackle the wrong side sometimes. LOL

[concernedperson]

First,I have to say I love dogs. Second, my friend was cornered in her garage by a Great Dane. This dog was inches above her head and held her at bay for the longest period of time. Pit bulls are little evil things that are inbred and will rip your throat out without the necessary cuddling. Not all creatures or humans are without fault but some behaviors need to be looked at and we need to protect all that are vulnerable.

[Details]

Thank goodness it was a great Dane rather than a pit bull - they probably wouldn't just hold her at bay, they'd go for the throat.

I don't see any reason for pit bulls as pets, any more than any other deadly animal. Maybe put the same restrictions as you would on a person owning a tiger, etc. Well caged, not let out without a leash and someone strong enough to maintain control of the animal, if at all, and generally not allowed period as a pet most places.

My sister was once held at bay for a fair amount of time by a housecat. My uncle John had the most evil, angry cat in the world - it loved him, hated everyone else. Every vet visit was the same thing - the vet would say, "Don't bring him back.". My sister was caught in the bathroom when the cat wanted to go in to get some food - but wouldn't let her walk past him to get out of his way.

[aussiegran]

I lost my 8 lb miniture fox terrier who was like our baby to one of these pi bulls ,it jumped a 6 ft fence to get him .our hearts were broken I still cry 8 years later, .the owner wouldnt do any thing just laughed about it ,I nearly broke my hand trying to get at the owner through his door the chicken s/it :furious: so my husband fixed the problem one night .no more p/bull .this breed is now banned in australia thank goodness

[concernedperson]

I lost my 8 lb miniture fox terrier who was like our baby to one of these pi bulls ,it jumped a 6 ft fence to get him .our hearts were broken I still cry 8 years later, .the owner wouldnt do any thing just laughed about it ,I nearly broke my hand trying to get at the owner through his door the chicken s/it :furious: so my husband fixed the problem one night .no more p/bull .this breed is now banned in australia thank goodness

See, this is my problem. The dogs are inbred to do destruction. It really isn't about the owners anymore it is a breed that favors destruction. Just like sociopaths. We have got to realize that no matter how much we love there is always another path that doesn't favor our views.

[Casshew]

I lost my 8 lb miniture fox terrier who was like our baby to one of these pit bulls aussiegran http://www.casshew.com/15.gif I am so sorry for your terrible, terrible loss.

[SadieMae]

I lost my 8 lb miniture fox terrier who was like our baby to one of these pi bulls ,it jumped a 6 ft fence to get him .our hearts were broken I still cry 8 years later, .the owner wouldnt do any thing just laughed about it ,I nearly broke my hand trying to get at the owner through his door the chicken s/it :furious: so my husband fixed the problem one night .no more p/bull .this breed is now banned in australia thank goodness
Oh Aussie, sorry for the loss! That poor little thing didn't have a chance against the PB. :furious: At least mine were big enough and there were two of them to fend off the attack. And good for your husband, that dog was dangerous.

[reb]

oh no,, how awful,, i am so sorry. and they just LAUGHED?? what a subhuman monster.

and that was mightly brave of your husband to "take care of" the problem... how did he do it without them finding out?

btw, i am surprised to see so many level-headed people on here, i thought by now we would all be attacked for the things we are saying (funny how the owners often act so much like their dogs! LOL)

[Casshew]

btw, i am surprised to see so many level-headed people on here, i thought by now we would all be attacked for the things we are saying (funny how the owners often act so much like their dogs! LOL)
There are some pit bull owners on the board, and in past discussions they basically say their baby wouldn't hurt a fly - and they could be very right about that but I wouldn't want to be around when 'baby' snaps one day

[concernedperson]

There are some pit bull owners on the board, and in past discussions they basically say their baby wouldn't hurt a fly - and they could be very right about that but I wouldn't want to be around when 'baby' snaps one day

Me either.

[SadieMae]

:laugh: :laugh: I have a friend who calls her Dane, her "cowardly couch potato". I've heard about their timid and lazy natures.

That would be Kong also!!! He hates thunder and that's the only time he jumps in my bed between me and hubby and buries his head under a pillow. I wouldn't say Danes are lazy, just more laid back.:D

[reb]

that is too funny........ poor thing!

[SadieMae]

First,I have to say I love dogs. Second, my friend was cornered in her garage by a Great Dane. This dog was inches above her head and held her at bay for the longest period of time. Pit bulls are little evil things that are inbred and will rip your throat out without the necessary cuddling. Not all creatures or humans are without fault but some behaviors need to be looked at and we need to protect all that are vulnerable.
If a Great Dane had the temperament of of PB, your friend wouldn't be alive. That dog probably wasn't trained not to jump on people. I don't know who's dog it was, and you didn't say the dog was being aggressive (growling) when holding her there, but when I got Sadie at 10 mos old, she would do that. Danes have no idea of their size. Trust me, I have 2 that think they can fit in my lap, LOL. She would pin me against the wall because she wanted a treat. I broke her from doing that real quick. A lot of people who are not familiar with the breed fear them, just because of their immense size and they do look intimidating! I usually take one of them with me if I have to make a quick run to Walmart in the evenings. I had just gotten out of my car when the guy in the car next me was getting out of his. Well Kong stuck his big head out the window and that guy screamed & jumped on the roof of his car. Gosh, I couldn't stop laughing and told him Kong was harmless. He eventually pet Kong and said he really needed to get a dog like that for his wife when he deploys to Iraq. He said the sight of a dog that big scared the chit out of him!

[aussiegran]

There are some pit bull owners on the board, and in past discussions they basically say their baby wouldn't hurt a fly - and they could be very right about that but I wouldn't want to be around when 'baby' snaps one dayThanks for the sympathy ,I am reliving it today with this discussion and I miss him still ,I have 2 more Toby and Penny a brother and sister we saved from a bad home,
Its funny when my daughter and I were walking past the dogs house before it attacked my dog the pit bull was outside with its owner and we walked to the other side of the street because it had the scariest look on its face ,the owner Laughed and said quote (he wouldnt hurt a fly) .

[Casshew]

we walked to the other side of the street because it had the scariest look on its face ,the owner Laughed and said quote (he wouldnt hurt a fly) .
Maybe a fly is the only safe thing around a pit bull :angel:

[SadieMae]

Thanks for the sympathy ,I am reliving it today with this discussion and I miss him still ,I have 2 more Toby and Penny a brother and sister we saved from a bad home,
Its funny when my daughter and I were walking past the dogs house before it attacked my dog the pit bull was outside with its owner and we walked to the other side of the street because it had the scariest look on its face ,the owner Laughed and said quote (he wouldnt hurt a fly) .
That guy doesn't deserve to own any dog! Wouldn't it be great if his own dog turned on him? "Wouldnt hurt a fly" oh really????

[Sassygerl]

There are some pit bull owners on the board, and in past discussions they basically say their baby wouldn't hurt a fly - and they could be very right about that but I wouldn't want to be around when 'baby' snaps one day

Nearly every story you hear about a pit mauling you hear the owners say what a wonderful family pet they were for 8+ years without ever even one incident of aggression. I don't trust them and won't let my kids play at peoples houses who have them. I've been around many, and they have always been very friendly, but I will never trust them!!!!

[detectivewannabe]

Last night in my mom's neighborhood, a pit bull that was in the bed of a truck (the driver was going to visit someone) jumped out and attacked a poodle on a leash in it's own yard. Tore it to pieces. I'm not sure if it's going to make it. After it attacked the dog, it went straight for some kids down the road. The owner finally caught it and drove off before anyone else could get hurt. That's all I know. Also, my mom's neighbor has one inside and one time this summer, my mom was in her yard with her dog and this pit bull could see my mom's dog through the window and it tried to attack mom's dog. No joke, it cracked the window trying to get to her dog!!!!!!!!!!!! Insane creatures!!!

[Cypros]

My cat, Buster, was mauled and killed by a pitbull. Buster and my other cat, Cairo, were sunning themselves on the front porch and some guy came down the street with his pitbull off the leash. It charged the cats and got Buster. Apparently the guy just watched it happen and then called his dog back and went on down the street. I was not home and think I would have killed the guy myself if I got my hands on him. I never did find the creep or his killer dog.

I miss my sweet Buster. :(

[SadieMae]

Last night in my mom's neighborhood, a pit bull that was in the bed of a truck (the driver was going to visit someone) jumped out and attacked a poodle on a leash in it's own yard. Tore it to pieces. I'm not sure if it's going to make it. After it attacked the dog, it went straight for some kids down the road. The owner finally caught it and drove off before anyone else could get hurt. That's all I know. Also, my mom's neighbor has one inside and one time this summer, my mom was in her yard with her dog and this pit bull could see my mom's dog through the window and it tried to attack mom's dog. No joke, it cracked the window trying to get to her dog!!!!!!!!!!!! Insane creatures!!!
So typical! I honestly wouldn't miss that breed if they became extinct.
To breed that aggressiveness out them would probably take a couple hundred years. It's not worth waiting for.

[lilpony]

My hairdresser had 2 pitbulls. She got them when they were about 8 weeks old. Had them for many many years. She used to say they were so great and playful. Never would hurt a fly. Such sweets dogs, she would say. Well I asked her one day how the dogs were, because she mentioned she got a new dog(not a pitbull). Thats when she said all of the sudden they started showing aggression, to the children and herself. She got rid of them immediately. I wanted to say, I thought they were great dogs, but I bit my tongue. As she was cutting my hair..:p Those dogs scare me to death. In my opinion, I don't even think they are cute. I am afraid to go for outdoor walks, because I have seen some roaming around. And it scared me.

[LinasK]

The owners exploit this breed's predisposition for violence. They have a rep for turning on humans. They seem to be wired that way. I would never trust one.

This child lived at this home, right? He was climbing over his own fence -- why didn't the dog recognize him/ his scent? My dad was a veterinarian. He believed that once a dog, any dog, any breed, crossed the line and bit a human being, it should be put down, no questions asked. Even a good trained watchdog should only go so far as necessary to warn someone off, before attacking. IMO.

This same son of mine (now 13) has a friend with a pit bull. Given his history with dog bites, I do not even want him at the kid's house, even though my son swears it is a nice dog. I would never trust a pit bull. Never.

For the life I me, I do not know why people don't get it through their heads that pit bulls should not be pets.

Eve
I completely agree with you Eve!

[detectivewannabe]

My cat, Buster, was mauled and killed by a pitbull. Buster and my other cat, Cairo, were sunning themselves on the front porch and some guy came down the street with his pitbull off the leash. It charged the cats and got Buster. Apparently the guy just watched it happen and then called his dog back and went on down the street. I was not home and think I would have killed the guy myself if I got my hands on him. I never did find the creep or his killer dog.

I miss my sweet Buster. :(
I do not understand these people who own these animals. In alot of instances, they seem to not even care! I own a dog who truely wouldn't hurt a fly but there have been times she has barked at the meter lady and I could have died of embarrassment. I hollered and scolded our dog and she really didn't do anything that bad. I can't fathom letting her attack someone or something and just walking away.

[SadieMae]

My cat, Buster, was mauled and killed by a pitbull. Buster and my other cat, Cairo, were sunning themselves on the front porch and some guy came down the street with his pitbull off the leash. It charged the cats and got Buster. Apparently the guy just watched it happen and then called his dog back and went on down the street. I was not home and think I would have killed the guy myself if I got my hands on him. I never did find the creep or his killer dog.

I miss my sweet Buster. :(
Sorry about Buster. I can't get over the mentality of the owners of these dogs. It's NOT ok to have a "pet" that kills other people's pets and children.

[Casshew]

I miss my sweet Buster. :( So much pain for everyone with these terrible experiences, I am so sorry Cypros, I have three cats and would be devestated to lose one.

I hate pitbulls I don't care how sweet they are :bang:

[Cypros]

Thanks, Casshew.

[Sassygerl]

Aw, I'm sorry about Buster...how sad :( A classmate of my youngest, he's in 1st grade, the dad bought his daughter a pit bull a few months ago. The mother told me the dog growls at her (they keep it outside...she said the dog LOVES their daughter) but she carries a fly swatter when she goes out back. Like a fly swatter would even help!!!!! Just another mental note I made that my son will not go over there!

[SadieMae]

Aw, I'm sorry about Buster...how sad :( A classmate of my youngest, he's in 1st grade, the dad bought his daughter a pit bull a few months ago. The mother told me the dog growls at her (they keep it outside...she said the dog LOVES their daughter) but she carries a fly swatter when she goes out back. Like a fly swatter would even help!!!!! Just another mental note I made that my son will not go over there!
And rightly so!!!

[reb]

HA!! that lady's gonne need more than a fly swatter when that dog turns demonic and lunges for her neck. hope it's worth it... risking your safety and the safety of your kids too. some people are so stupid, it's more important to be a rebel and flip the bird to civilized society than it is to keep their child safe.

poor buster,, i'm so sorry. i used to live in the big city and almost witnessed some drug dealer's ho walking their PB down the street, and it lunged & attacked my neighbor's cat who was about 15 yrs old, just lounging on the front step. what a way to go, after all those years. and of course the jerk just kept going down the street without a care in the world, while they were raging at her.

it seems to me that the people who own these monsters actually LIKE to watch their PB maul another animal.... i think they get off on it. after all, it's just practice for getting in the ring... even if they don't fight the dogs, the owners probably fantasize about it, or they just figure the dog has to kill for sport once in a while, to get it out of their system. what sick freaks!!! in a perfect world, the breed would be banned completely, and anyone caught with one would get a fine & jail sentence.

[SadieMae]

HA!! that lady's gonne need more than a fly swatter when that dog turns demonic and lunges for her neck. hope it's worth it... risking your safety and the safety of your kids too. some people are so stupid, it's more important to be a rebel and flip the bird to civilized society than it is to keep their child safe.

poor buster,, i'm so sorry. i used to live in the big city and almost witnessed some drug dealer's ho walking their PB down the street, and it lunged & attacked my neighbor's cat who was about 15 yrs old, just lounging on the front step. what a way to go, after all those years. and of course the jerk just kept going down the street without a care in the world, while they were raging at her.

it seems to me that the people who own these monsters actually LIKE to watch their PB maul another animal.... i think they get off on it. after all, it's just practice for getting in the ring... even if they don't fight the dogs, the owners probably fantasize about it, or they just figure the dog has to kill for sport once in a while, to get it out of their system. what sick freaks!!! in a perfect world, the breed would be banned completely, and anyone caught with one would get a fine & jail sentence.
In a perfect world yes the breed would be banned. But banning them would just create an underground market for the dogs. There's just too many to eradicate breed entirely. They would end up being an illegal commodity like drugs. Already they are a status symbol to drug dealers. I don't get it. Poor cat didn't deserve that kind of death!

I had another Great Dane 20 years ago, Ghenghis who went after a little kitten. He just took off running down the street, I saw him grab it in his mouth and then he came trotting back to me with this kitten in his mouth. Had the whole head in his mouth, I was horrified!!! Well he dropped the little kitty at my feet, and looked so proud that he brought me a present. Little kitty was quite irritated, but not a mark on her. Genghis was a sweetie too, and I kept the cat!

[PrayersForMaura]

I don't know if anyone suggested this, but we should keep track in a thread or a forum of all the stories about pit bull attacks. I've seen so many stories about them everywhere.

[Details]

If they were banned, there would be an underground market... but it would still cut way down on the number of pit bulls out there - not everyone is willing to break the law to have a pit bull. And if you saw one in your neighborhood, you could just report it immediately instead of waiting for it to attack a person or pet.

Nothing is ever a perfect situation, but banning them is a huge improvement. The people and pets killed probably wouldn't have been if the owners had had to keep their pit bulls hidden and locked away in order not to be caught owning an illegal dog.

For some people, pit bulls are good dogs - and maybe even they'll stay that way the rest of their life. But there are plenty of other good dogs out there who are not bred to the bone killers, time bombs who may go psycho at any time.

[SadieMae]

If they were banned, there would be an underground market... but it would still cut way down on the number of pit bulls out there - not everyone is willing to break the law to have a pit bull. And if you saw one in your neighborhood, you could just report it immediately instead of waiting for it to attack a person or pet.

Nothing is ever a perfect situation, but banning them is a huge improvement. The people and pets killed probably wouldn't have been if the owners had had to keep their pit bulls hidden and locked away in order not to be caught owning an illegal dog.

For some people, pit bulls are good dogs - and maybe even they'll stay that way the rest of their life. But there are plenty of other good dogs out there who are not bred to the bone killers, time bombs who may go psycho at any time.That's what's so scary about the breed. You couldn't have said it better, pitbulls are timebombs. I'm all for banning the dogs. Believe me if there were a ban here, I'd have no hesistation in reporting anyone having one. In Detroit I heard there is a sort of ban....no one under 18 can be an owner of one. A person walking one under 18 will have the dog confiscated. Does that make sense to you? Bottom line on that, IMO that's not a ban on the dog. Kids just say it's my momma's dog.:waitasec:

[Sassygerl]

They're just like guns....they'll always be around IMO.

[Details]

They're just like guns....they'll always be around IMO.Yes - but that doesn't mean we can't improve the situation.

Pet peeve - just because there's no perfect solution to completely fix something doesn't mean that partial solutions that will improve the situation significantly are worthless, nor that the situation is hopeless.

[SadieMae]

So since it's pretty much the consensus here, PB do not need to be in our neighborhoods, does anyone know how, who to see to get them banned? I don't know where to start...city council, county commissioners, get it on a ballot, petitions? Anyone know?

[LinasK]

San Francisco is getting ready to authorize an ordinance requiring Pit Bull owners to get them spayed or neutered. I'd prefer an out-and-out ban, but it's a step!:clap: :clap: :clap:

[LinasK]

So since it's pretty much the consensus here, PB do not need to be in our neighborhoods, does anyone know how, who to see to get them banned? I don't know where to start...city council, county commissioners, get it on a ballot, petitions? Anyone know?
In San Francisco, it's the board of supervisors. Try your city council or county commisioners.

[SadieMae]

San Francisco is getting ready to authorize an ordinance requiring Pit Bull owners to get them spayed or neutered. I'd prefer an out-and-out ban, but it's a step!:clap: :clap: :clap:
Yes for the law abiding owners it's a good move. But with city ordinances, there's usually never enough people out checking they're being followed. There's a city ordinance here that all dogs must be licensed annually. Mine never had a city license in 14 years. Nobody ever came by to check either. The only way they know is if a dog gets picked up by the dog catcher and taken to the pound. You have to buy a license to bail them out.

[LinasK]

Yes for the law abiding owners it's a good move. But with city ordinances, there's usually never enough people out checking they're being followed. There's a city ordinance here that all dogs must be licensed annually. Mine never had a city license in 14 years. Nobody ever came by to check either. The only way they know is if a dog gets picked up by the dog catcher and taken to the pound. You have to buy a license to bail them out.
Since a 12-year-old boy Nicolas Fabish was just recently killed in S.F. by his own pit bulls, I think they'll (no pun intended) put some teeth into enforcing this statute. S.F. has also had one other horrific dog mauling death by Presa Canario dogs bred for fighting.

[Details]

Neutering all of them is a good start. That'll solve the problem over time - to whatever degree you can get compliance.

[SadieMae]

Since a 12-year-old boy Nicolas Fabish was just recently killed in S.F. by his own pit bulls, I think they'll (no pun intended) put some teeth into enforcing this statute. S.F. has also had one other horrific dog mauling death by Presa Canario dogs bred for fighting.
I remember that case. Aren't those also pretty huge dogs from Portugal/Spain? Very dangerous breed also, but not common in the US I don't think. The owners are out of jail now? Nicholas was left home by his "mother" in the basement because she didn't want the dogs to attack him. Now that was one stuuuupid beeyotch. She KNEW the dogs were a threat to her child and left him alone with them.:banghead:

[golfmom]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-051107pitbull,1,4744982.story?page=2&coll=chi-news-hed

"I was always one of those people who said it wasn't the dog, it was the owner," Ellen Lamarre said. "But in this case I think it was the dog. They just turned."

[SewingDeb]

I don't know if anyone suggested this, but we should keep track in a thread or a forum of all the stories about pit bull attacks. I've seen so many stories about them everywhere.

It's easy to get thousands of these stories. Just google pit bull + attack. It's horrific to see how many hits you get.

I'll stick with my little beagle. She loves everybody and she's great with kids.

[Jeana (DP)]

They're just like guns....they'll always be around IMO.


I disagree with that statement. They're a lot harder to hide than guns. However, speaking of guns, since there ARE so many of them around, I wonder why no one went and got one and shot these dogs when they attacked. That would have been my first reaction.

Dogs are pack animals who have been bred to attack and kill their own kind. They see children just as they see other dogs and have no "STOP" sign in their heads telling them NOT to go after them as they were trained to do. Simple as that. The breed needs to go.

[Hbgchick]

In the city where I live, the SPCA will spay or neuter anyone's pit bulls and pit bull mixes for no charge. It is an attempt to reduce the backyard breeding of this breed. Accidental breeding and backyard breeders are the source for most of the dangerous pit bulls around here. Less PB puppies, less PB's. Hopefully this free program will spread to other cities throughout the country.
Hear hear!

[tuppence]

My hairdresser had 2 pitbulls. She got them when they were about 8 weeks old. Had them for many many years. She used to say they were so great and playful. Never would hurt a fly. Such sweets dogs, she would say. Well I asked her one day how the dogs were, because she mentioned she got a new dog(not a pitbull). Thats when she said all of the sudden they started showing aggression, to the children and herself. She got rid of them immediately. I wanted to say, I thought they were great dogs, but I bit my tongue. As she was cutting my hair..:p Those dogs scare me to death. In my opinion, I don't even think they are cute. I am afraid to go for outdoor walks, because I have seen some roaming around. And it scared me.

at least she was willing to do something about it! I think most people would be too stubborn after they spent years defending the breed...

[Sassygerl]

I disagree with that statement. They're a lot harder to hide than guns. However, speaking of guns, since there ARE so many of them around, I wonder why no one went and got one and shot these dogs when they attacked. That would have been my first reaction.

Dogs are pack animals who have been bred to attack and kill their own kind. They see children just as they see other dogs and have no "STOP" sign in their heads telling them NOT to go after them as they were trained to do. Simple as that. The breed needs to go.

Oh I agree with you that they're a lot harder to hide, but rest assured it can be done, and the dogs will continue to be bred....banned or not. Just like anything else illegal. I am one who would be happy if there were none in my neighborhood...trust me! Then there are Rotties too....

[Nore]

Me either.
-----------------------

That makes three of us!

[Hbgchick]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-051107pitbull,1,4744982.story?page=2&coll=chi-news-hed

"I was always one of those people who said it wasn't the dog, it was the owner," Ellen Lamarre said. "But in this case I think it was the dog. They just turned."
Well of course. It's HER FAMILY that is the owner this time, so of COURSE it couldn't be THEIR fault...it's just those OTHER owners fault...:banghead:

[golfmom]

Well of course. It's HER FAMILY that is the owner this time, so of COURSE it couldn't be THEIR fault...it's just those OTHER owners fault...:banghead:

I believe you're mistaken, she is the relative of the little girl. It certainly didn't benefit her or her family members to say that. It just so happens that I agree with her. I always felt that it was the owners and not the dogs. I now firmly believe that these dogs (like people) in spite of having loving homes can turn.

[Details]

I think she had to learn it the hard way. When it's not you, it's easy to blame the owners - until you know the owners and the dog involved and realize that it really does happen - a well raised dog, good owners, and they'll still snap!

Pure denial - until it's you. A common thing - just like the people who are anti-abortion (until it's their 16 year old daughter who gets pregnant), or people who are sympathetic to criminals being caused by society's ills (until they get mugged), etc.

[curlytone]

Let me start by offering my condolences to any of you who have lost a family member (human or animal) to any dog. It is truly an unfortunate occurrence that should never happen. I ask that you do your best to keep an open mind as you read this.



Please take this quick pit bull identification quiz: http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html (http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html)

I didn’t get it right until probably the 15th guess.



From this it is easy to understand how identifying a dog involved in an attack, especially a pit bull, can be inaccurate. Almost all media stories involving “vicious pit bulls” rely on the accounts of eyewitnesses. In many of these stories, further investigations reveal that the dog (or dogs) involved is not in fact a pit bull. Unfortunately, newspapers with headlines like “Unknown-Breed Dog Mauls Woman” don’t attract readers like ones about pit bulls. You will never see follow-up stories with the same front-page publicity that correct the breed type or even stories after the investigation. They are always first reports in the day or days right after the incident.



Also, many people in this thread describe pit bulls as ready to “snap” or “turn without notice”. Since nobody seems to have owned one, and only one person said that they have a friend who owned two, I can only infer that these descriptions are based on the media reports where owners of the dog describe the history of the dog. If we think about this for a minute: The owner’s dog has just hurt or killed someone. Police officers and reporters are asking about the dog. How likely is it that the owner is going to say, “Oh yeah, Rex has always been vicious. In fact, it was just a matter of time until this was going to happen. What, with all that illegal fighting that I’ve been training him for, I am surprised that this was his first kill.”? Of course they are going to say that the dog was always nice, if the owner has any chance of avoiding criminal charges or lawsuits, they must say that. How many people actually take responsibility for their negligence these days? The story that started this whole thread states that the incident is being investigated as a criminal matter. What are the chances that anyone will read the results of the investigations?



Many posts also make comments like “They see children just as they see other dogs and have no "STOP" sign in their heads” and “They bite to kill”. Let’s put this in perspective. There are millions of pit bulls in the United States and annually there is an average of 17 DOG related deaths per year. That is ALL dogs. Since 1965 that list includes 36 breeds (with the beagle and Great Dane making the list). So either pit bulls are not “programmed” to attack or they do not “bite to kill”, or both are false. As a matter of fact, the American Temperament Test Society (http://www.atts.org/statistics.html (http://www.atts.org/statistics.html)) ranks the pit bull (American Pit Bull Terrier and American Staffordshire terrier) higher than almost all other dogs. To further explore, even if you say that pit bulls caused half of the annual deaths or 8.5 (which is not the case), your odds of winning the Powerball lottery jackpot are much greater with an average of 14.33 annual winners over the last three years (and this average will go up since 2005 is not over, but there will likely be more winners). Furthermore, the Powerball lottery is only played in 27 states.



Let’s also look at some additional things that should be banned because they are “dangerous” (2002 National Safety Council, http://www.nsc.org/lrs/statinfo/odds.htm (http://www.nsc.org/lrs/statinfo/odds.htm) ):

-Dogs (all dogs not just pit bulls), 18 deaths: but let’s ban pit bulls.

-Animal rider or occupant of animal-drawn vehicle, 118 deaths: clearly horses must go.

-Cars (just cars, not SUVs, Trucks, Motorcycles, etc.), 16,337 deaths: let’s ban them.

-Fall involving bed, chair, other furniture, 785 deaths: furniture is clearly vicious, ban it.

-Drowning in the bath tub, 352 deaths: my neighborhood would surely be better off without them.

-Ignition or melting of nightwear, 13 deaths: evil little pajamas, ban them.

-Intentional Self Harm; 31,655 deaths: Whoa, huge number. What should we do here? Should we ban anything one can overdose on, suffocate themselves with, guns, knives, etc? Maybe we need to ban people, or maybe just ones with emotional or mental health issues. Maybe certain races or sexes are more likely to harm themselves. According to the CDC (http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hus/hus04trend.pdf#046 (http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hus/hus04trend.pdf#046)) white males have the highest percentages; lets ban both whites and males, because clearly the only logical conclusion is that they are ready to snap without warning.

Other sources:

-In the year 2000, 1561 teenagers were arrested for murder: maybe we should ban teens; maybe we could neuter people, then the problem would solve itself.

-You are more likely to be murdered by someone you know. Lets band together (temporarily) to pass some legislation that bans contact with anyone we know. We must then disband quickly so that we don’t break our new law or give into our ingrained instincts to snap on one another. This fact also makes us wonder about the stories describing dog attacks where the people “knew the dog”.

-Lets not even talk about alcohol, tobacco, and our national inability to balance diet and exercise.



I apologize for the sarcasm, but the point is that nobody thinks that any of these things should be banned or that they are inherently dangerous. Also, I know that one reaction will be, “yeah, but pit bulls hurt way more people than they kill”. The same can be said of everything in the list above. Everyone can see how absurd the proposed bans above are, except for pit bulls.; Quite a few people see that as reasonable.



Take a look at the experiences that people in this post have discussed. Is it responsible to have a dog (of any breed) that can jump its own fence and is given an opportunity to do so? Is it responsible to let a dog approach a cat (or any animal) it doesn’t know? Is it responsible to let a Great Dane corner someone in a garage (more on this later)? Is it responsible to own a dog that is too strong physically that you can’t handle it? Is it responsible to allow dogs the opportunity to wander the streets and “maraud children”? Is it responsible to laugh when your dog inflicts damage on another animal (makes me question whether the owner raised the dog properly and had good intentions)? It seems to me that all of the postings about pit bull horror stories have a common theme in addition to the dog breed: an irresponsible owner.



To the comment “i am surprised to see so many level-headed people on here, i thought by now we would all be attacked for the things we are saying (funny how the owners often act so much like their dogs! LOL)”. I honestly did laugh out loud; this follows a poster whose husband killed a neighbor’s dog (albeit an irresponsible owner and a vicious dog with a mind-numbing vertical jump) in an eye-for-an-eye exchange. Sounds like the definition of level-headedness to me. In that situation the tally is vicious dog, 1 dog killed; levelheaded adult, 1 dog killed. Also, so far, the only attacking seems to be non-pit bull owners attacking pit bull owners. Funny how the non-owners often act so much like the stereotype of the dogs that they hate.



This comment, in another post, blows my mind, “…second, my friend was cornered in her garage by a Great Dane. This dog was inches above her head and held her at bay for the longest period of time. Pit bulls are little evil things…” This sounds like a Johnnie Cochran closing argument, “If it doesn’t fit…it’s an evil little pit”. This is followed by, “Thank goodness it was a Great Dane rather than a pit bull- they probably wouldn't just hold her at bay, they'd go for the throat.” Guess what? IT WASN’T A PIT BULL!!! This is exactly how pit bull myths are perpetuated. The story is about a Great Dane that was aggressive to someone. Then, with no basis pit bulls enter the story. Then some says “good thing it wasn’t a pit bull”. The next person will say, “Did you hear about the Great Dane an pit bull that mauled someone?” The next, “I heard a lady was almost killed by a pit bull, but her Great Dane saved her”. Another poster explains that her son has been bitten twice by Dalmatians, but doesn’t trust pit bulls.



I took one of the poster’s advice and googled pit bull + attacks. They were right, it is a horrific 616,000 hits. Then I googled beagle + attacks, 704,000 hits. Try it with any breed. A Pomeranian killed someone.



Also, the only dog to ever bite me (broke skin on three occasions, once in the face) was my childhood dog, Asta (like the Thin Man movies). He was a wirehaired fox terrier. Was it the dog breed that was the problem? No. Was it responsible for my parents to keep the dog after the first incident? No. Finally, everyone seems to know a brother’s girlfriend’s second-removed step-cousin or some acquaintance that has been bitten by a pit bull. Ask everyone you know if a dog has personally bitten him or her. Then ask them what breed. A dog has bitten every person that I have ever asked this question. Not one by a pit bull.



This forum is called "Websleuths". The Merriam-Webster definition of sleuth is "to act as a detective : search for information". From what I can tell, there hasn't been much information searching to substantiate the logic behind hating and banning an entire breed. Most reactions seem to be emotional ones based on the quick examination of the top-level events, which are often provided by a sales-driven media (e.g. Marauding pit bulls attack six = all pit bulls are bad). Before rushing to conclusions, investigate, analyze and learn about individual situations. Then examine whether individual situations are representative of the big picture. In other words, be part of the "crime sleuthing community" for which this forum is intended.

[Jeana (DP)]

Give me a break!!!! We ALL think teenagers should be banned. Geez. :croc:

[Details]

The problem with pit bulls isn't how often they attack - everyone knows little dogs are psycho. It's what happens when they attack. Their inbred tendencies and their strength make an attack by a pit bull serious, where an attack by a terrier is just a nuisance.

And these attacks - they are pit bulls. In the case above where it was a family dog that just turned and snapped - they know it was a pit bull.

[Jeana (DP)]

The problem with pit bulls isn't how often they attack - everyone knows little dogs are psycho. It's what happens when they attack. Their inbred tendencies and their strength make an attack by a pit bull serious, where an attack by a terrier is just a nuisance.

And these attacks - they are pit bulls. In the case above where it was a family dog that just turned and snapped - they know it was a pit bull.


Of course pitt bulls are the most vicious dogs on the planet or they wouldn't be the breed used for the fighting. If any other dog could provide these idiots with better "entertainment," why aren't they using them? People can stick their heads in the sand if they want when it comes to these dogs, but they're dangerous or they wouldn't be making so many people so much money.

[SewingDeb]

http://www.fataldogattacks.com/statistics.html
From THE STATISTICS - FATAL DOG ATTACKS IN THE U.S. FROM 1965 - 2001 *


Breeds Involved
Pit Bull and Pit-bull-type dogs (21%),
Mixed breed dogs (16%),
Rottweilers (13%),
German Shepherd Dogs (9%),
Wolf Dogs (5%),
Siberian Huskies (5%),
Malamutes (4%),
Great Danes (3%),
St. Bernards (3%),
Chow Chows (3%),
Doberman Pinschers (3%),
other breeds & non-specified breeds (15%).

[Boatswain'sMate]

Of course pitt bulls are the most vicious dogs on the planet or they wouldn't be the breed used for the fighting. If any other dog could provide these idiots with better "entertainment," why aren't they using them? People can stick their heads in the sand if they want when it comes to these dogs, but they're dangerous or they wouldn't be making so many people so much money.
Pit bulls are used for fighting because they are muscular and will not stop if they are hurt. You do realize people stand in the pit while the dogs fight and handle the dogs during the fight? Do you think they would do that if the dogs were likely to turn on them and rip them apart? Please read curlytone's post; it is well researched and fair.

People who make pit bulls fight should be sent to jail. People who train any large, muscular dog to be agressive should be sent to jail, too.

[Jeana (DP)]

http://www.fataldogattacks.com/statistics.html
From THE STATISTICS - FATAL DOG ATTACKS IN THE U.S. FROM 1965 - 2001 *


Breeds Involved
Pit Bull and Pit-bull-type dogs (21%),
Mixed breed dogs (16%),
Rottweilers (13%),
German Shepherd Dogs (9%),
Wolf Dogs (5%),
Siberian Huskies (5%),
Malamutes (4%),
Great Danes (3%),
St. Bernards (3%),
Chow Chows (3%),
Doberman Pinschers (3%),
other breeds & non-specified breeds (15%).



Thank you.

'Nuf said.

[SewingDeb]

You're welcome.

[Details]

Pit bulls are used for fighting because they are muscular and will not stop if they are hurt. You do realize people stand in the pit while the dogs fight and handle the dogs during the fight? Do you think they would do that if the dogs were likely to turn on them and rip them apart? Please read curlytone's post; it is well researched and fair.That's part of what makes pit bulls so dangerous - when they focus on an enemy, they keep going until they kill it. If it's another pit bull, then we're safe. When it's a child or a person, they can't be stopped.

The stats are there - pit bulls kill.

[Details]

http://www.fataldogattacks.com/statistics.html
From THE STATISTICS - FATAL DOG ATTACKS IN THE U.S. FROM 1965 - 2001 *


Breeds Involved
Pit Bull and Pit-bull-type dogs (21%),
Mixed breed dogs (16%),
Rottweilers (13%),
German Shepherd Dogs (9%),
Wolf Dogs (5%),
Siberian Huskies (5%),
Malamutes (4%),
Great Danes (3%),
St. Bernards (3%),
Chow Chows (3%),
Doberman Pinschers (3%),
other breeds & non-specified breeds (15%).I wonder how this relates to the percentage of each of these dog breeds in the dog population. Mixed breed is a huge category, to only have 16 percent of the attacks is really a good thing, but not as good as the Labs, who are also a huge population, but aren't even listed here. If Pitbulls are 21% of all dogs in America, then they're not killing out of proportion, but if they're 1%, they are a huge risk.

[curlytone]

But let's not blame the people "making all the money"??? It must be the dog. Do you think that they just buy a pit bull, treat it well, and it becomes a fighter? They train it to fight. Are they strong dogs? Yes. Should we condemn things based on their strength? Are you more likely do die by getting hit by a Semi than a car? Does that make the semi bad? To answer your question "why do they use pit bulls?" It's because they are strong and there are backyard breeders all over so they are cheap. Why would they spend thousands on another breed when there is easy and cheap access to pit bulls and you fully expect that the dog will die? If every pit bull were gone tomorrow, do you think that the dog-fighting people will pack up their winnings and say "well it was a good run for us" or do you think that another breed will enter the picture?

Let's also explore the dog-fighting concept. The trainers must interact with the dogs. What do you think happens to dogs that are aggressive with people? They are eliminated (or historically they were, in recent times SOME irresponsible owners value human aggression. I think we SHOULD pass a ban on owners like that and eliminate ANY dog of ANY breed that is aggressive with people). Pit bulls have been breed to be aggressive with other animals, especially dogs. By far and away the overwhelming majority of them love people.



My head is fully out of the sand, but again most of the responses are based on a news story here and there. To me, that is not a very trustworthy source of information. I suppose that you don't know that in the early 1900s pit bulls were one of the most common family dogs. Helen Keller owned one, president Roosevelt owned one, Petey on the Little Rascals was one, and they represented our country on WWI and WWII posters. It seems to me that much of the public responds only to sensationalized media stories. I see no evidence of any other post with any research at all. Dateline doesn't count. I think you should reevaluate who has their head in the sand.



BTW, aggression does not necessarily have anything to do with inbreeding. The reason that inbreeding is bad (other than the obvious part about copulating with relatives) is that it is more likely for rare, recessive genes to be paired and therefore expressed. If a family has a really rare genetic disorder that is recessive, the chances of meeting and reproducing with someone else that has the same gene is very remote. However, if they reproduce within the family, the chance that the two recessive genes are paired (and therefore the gene that is expressed) is very likely. So the only way that this leads to aggression is if there is a recessive gene for viciousness. To my knowledge no one has researched that.

[Jeana (DP)]

From the link:

The study covers 431 documented human fatalities from a dog attack.

Victim Profile
79% of all fatal attacks were on children under the age of 12
12% of the victims were the elderly, aged 65 - 94
9% of the victims were 13 - 64 years old

FROM CNN.Com

CNN) -- Dogs are the preferred pet for millions of Americans, valued for their loyalty, companionship and protection. But sometimes, that faithful friend can turn into a foe. Health officials say dogs bite or attack more than 4.5 million people each year, killing an average of 20 people.

Young children are often the most vulnerable to these attacks.

"Children are small people, they are closer to dog size. So the dog often views them as playmates, you know, rather than someone as leader," said Patricia McDonnell of Comprehensive Pet Therapy.

In dog society there is a distinct rank order, and dogs sometime see a young child as someone they can push around or perhaps discipline by biting or nipping, according to McDonnell.

http://archives.cnn.com/2000/HEALTH/02/25/dog.bite/

[Details]

Semi drivers do have to undergo extra training - there's a different license. And dog fighting rings aren't so much the problem as the people who get a pit bull because it's known as a mean dog, or have one as a family pet, well treated, well raised, but it turns - and they do turn. All dogs can, but when pit bulls turn, they kill.

Dog fighting rings aren't the problem, it is in the genes of the pit bull, bred there over centuries - it doesn't go away just because a nice family adopts the dog, nor does it get strengthened immediately because they are in a dog fighting ring.

[Jeana (DP)]

Curlytone, let's say you're right about everything you posted. You most likely are. The fact of the matter is that these dogs, for the most part, are being breed and raised in basements and backyards- not so that they can be brought into loving homes to become part of the family. They're raised to fight. So, instead of making sure some of these dogs are never born in the first place, and save them all of the torture of being ripped to part in someone's backyard for "fun" and "profit," what would you suggest?

You suggest that if this breed were ended, these criminals would just pick up on another breed to fight? What breed, besides a pitt, is going to fight to the death?

[Jules]

You suggest that if this breed were ended, these criminals would just pick up on another breed to fight? What breed, besides a pitt, is going to fight to the death?

Jeana, unfortunately, there are many that would. Chow and Rottweiler come to mind immediately and I have no doubt there could be others - if they are trained that way. Perhaps dobermans, german shepherds.

[curlytone]

I wonder how this relates to the percentage of each of these dog breeds in the dog population. Mixed breed is a huge category, to only have 16 percent of the attacks is really a good thing, but not as good as the Labs, who are also a huge population, but aren't even listed here. If Pitbulls are 21% of all dogs in America, then they're not killing out of proportion, but if they're 1%, they are a huge risk.
Fair enough, but what does that tell you:

1) it could be the breed
2) it could be the type of people who are more likely to own the breed and the training that they give it
3) it could be that pit bull is an umbrella term that categorizes more than one ACK, ADBA, etc. recognized breed and any cross breed pitbull look-alike (my guess is that the majority of pit bulls have no papers).

I have read reports that estimate that in Chicago, every night, there are 3,000 dog fights. Even if each instance only has two dogs, that is 6,000 dogs trained to fight and be aggressive. I would guess that most are pit bulls. Would I trust these fighting dogs? Problably not, but I think that it is the criminals training them that are the problem, not the breed.

Also think about someone who sets out with the goal of getting an intimidating dog. Will they pick a lab, collie, retriever? No, they will get a pit bull or a rottweiler. The wanted and intimidating dog so they will likely train it to be aggressive so that it "walks the walk" so to speak. It is not suprising to me that statistics show a disproportionate number of deaths from pit bulls and rottweilers, but consider the facts that lead up to them. If labs struck fear into most of the public that saw them, than they would be the dogs that get trained by irresponsible people to be mean. Again, it is the people not the breed.

[Jeana (DP)]

Jeana, unfortunately, there are many that would. Chow and Rottweiler come to mind immediately and I have no doubt there could be others - if they are trained that way. Perhaps dobermans, german shepherds.


Jules, I think some of them would and some of them wouldn't. Its definately not a guaranteed thing as it is with a pitt. I took my GSD to classes in protection for months and months and months and I'm telling you, there's no guaranty that the dog would fight someone to the death. I'm thinking that he wouldn't.

[Jules]

Jules, I think some of them would and some of them wouldn't. Its definately not a guaranteed thing as it is with a pitt. I took my GSD to classes in protection for months and months and months and I'm telling you, there's no guaranty that the dog would fight someone to the death. I'm thinking that he wouldn't.

Yep, that's why I said "if trained that way." I'm not saying all of them - but if they are born into the "fighting" atmosphere that pitts are - I don't know that they'd be able to walk away from a fight.

[aussiegran]

http://www.fataldogattacks.com/statistics.html
From THE STATISTICS - FATAL DOG ATTACKS IN THE U.S. FROM 1965 - 2001 *


Breeds Involved
Pit Bull and Pit-bull-type dogs (21%),
Mixed breed dogs (16%),
Rottweilers (13%),
German Shepherd Dogs (9%),
Wolf Dogs (5%),
Siberian Huskies (5%),
Malamutes (4%),
Great Danes (3%),
St. Bernards (3%),
Chow Chows (3%),
Doberman Pinschers (3%),
other breeds & non-specified breeds (15%).
Thanks SewingDeb.


curlytone
(this follows a poster whose husband killed a neighbor’s dog (albeit an irresponsible owner and a vicious dog with a mind-numbing vertical jump) in an eye-for-an-eye exchange. Sounds like the definition of level-headedness to me. In that situation the tally is vicious dog, 1 dog killed; levelheaded adult, 1 dog killed. Also, so far, the only attacking seems to be non-pit bull owners attacking pit bull owners. Funny how the non-owners often act so much like the stereotype of the dogs that they hate

When my husband got rid of the dog it wasnt an eye for eye type thing it was because we had small grandkids and other neighbours had small dogs at risk.at least you agree that he was level headed here.I still cannot understand why anyone would want this breed of dog as a pet knowing they are recognised as a risk breed when there are so many gentle breeds out there .My vet told me he has treated
Quote (a huge number of animals attacked by THIS breed compared to others )and thinks they should be banned. I as a non owner of a pitbull will always shake my head at anyone with a family who owns one and I dont consider myself in any way like a pitbull.:furious: .

[curlytone]

Curlytone, let's say you're right about everything you posted. You most likely are. The fact of the matter is that these dogs, for the most part, are being breed and raised in basements and backyards- not so that they can be brought into loving homes to become part of the family. They're raised to fight. So, instead of making sure some of these dogs are never born in the first place, and save them all of the torture of being ripped to part in someone's backyard for "fun" and "profit," what would you suggest?

You suggest that if this breed were ended, these criminals would just pick up on another breed to fight? What breed, besides a pitt, is going to fight to the death?
I would suggest that we devote more resources to breakup dogfights and arrest criminals who are involved with them. I think dog owners should be held more accountable for the behavior of their dogs.

I don't really want to offer suggstions for dog fighters but I would suspect that any large dog would fit the bill: Rottweilers, Dobermans, German Shepherd Dogs, Akitas, Chows, Dogo Argentino, Cane Presario, Cane Corso, etc. Again, it takes people to train them to be mean. I have seen nice family labs get into a fight, and without human intervention from responsible owners, they sure looked like could kill eachother.

[Jeana (DP)]

Yep, that's why I said "if trained that way." I'm not saying all of them - but if they are born into the "fighting" atmosphere that pitts are - I don't know that they'd be able to walk away from a fight.

Its not just that they have to walk away from a fight Jules. Put a pitt bull in front of another dog and it WILL more times than not, attack that dog. Put another breed dog in front of another dog and its not the case.

[Jeana (DP)]

I would suggest that we devote more resources to breakup dogfights and arrest criminals who are involved with them. I think dog owners should be held more accountable for the behavior of their dogs.

I don't really want to offer suggstions for dog fighters but I would suspect that any large dog would fit the bill: Rottweilers, Dobermans, German Shepherd Dogs, Akitas, Chows, Dogo Argentino, Cane Presario, Cane Corso, etc. Again, it takes people to train them to be mean. I have seen nice family labs get into a fight, and without human intervention from responsible owners, they sure looked like could kill eachother.


What about all of the attacks mentioned in the link above? None of those 21% pitt bulls from that article were "trained" fighting dogs. They were pets. Your argument makes no sense to me Curly. I think you don't want to see what is so obvious. I've lived with trained police K-9s and there's no way any of them would attack another dog or person unprovoked the way pitts do.

[Jules]

Its not just that they have to walk away from a fight Jules. Put a pitt bull in front of another dog and it WILL more times than not, attack that dog. Put another breed dog in front of another dog and its not the case.

I agree with that.

[curlytone]

Thanks SewingDeb.


curlytone
(this follows a poster whose husband killed a neighbor’s dog (albeit an irresponsible owner and a vicious dog with a mind-numbing vertical jump) in an eye-for-an-eye exchange. Sounds like the definition of level-headedness to me. In that situation the tally is vicious dog, 1 dog killed; levelheaded adult, 1 dog killed. Also, so far, the only attacking seems to be non-pit bull owners attacking pit bull owners. Funny how the non-owners often act so much like the stereotype of the dogs that they hate

When my husband got rid of the dog it wasnt an eye for eye type thing it was because we had small grandkids and other neighbours had small dogs at risk.at least you agree that he was level headed here.I still cannot understand why anyone would want this breed of dog as a pet knowing they are recognised as a risk breed when there are so many gentle breeds out there .My vet told me he has treated
Quote (a huge number of animals attacked by THIS breed compared to others )and thinks they should be banned. I as a non owner of a pitbull will always shake my head at anyone with a family who owns one and I dont consider myself in any way like a pitbull.:furious: .

My vet loves pit bulls and acknowledges that they are more prone to animal aggressivness. I also feel that pit bull ownership requires more responsibility than other breeds. I know that my pit bull could have a propensity for animal aggression. She hasn't shown that, but I understand her breeds history, and it could be there. I also know that if my dog gets into a fight, regardless of which dog starts the fight, my dog will be blamed. That means that I can't be as cavilier with my dog as the owner of say a pug could, but I don't see why there should be a law banning my dog. And people can choose not to get one as you have, but if use "why would you want this, when there is this" as the measuring stick, I think most of the "wants" that people have could come into question. Also, lets look at the risk. Flamming pajamas (see my first post) kill more people annually than pit bulls.

[Jeana (DP)]

My vet loves pit bulls and acknowledges that they are more prone to animal aggressivness. I also feel that pit bull ownership requires more responsibility than other breeds. I know that my pit bull could have a propensity for animal aggression. She hasn't shown that, but I understand her breeds history, and it could be there. I also know that if my dog gets into a fight, regardless of which dog starts the fight, my dog will be blamed. That means that I can't be as cavilier with my dog as the owner of say a pug could, but I don't see why there should be a law banning my dog. And people can choose not to get one as you have, but if use "why would you want this, when there is this" as the measuring stick, I think most of the "wants" that people have could come into question. Also, lets look at the risk. Flamming pajamas (see my first post) kill more people annually than pit bulls.


Curly, did you take your dog in for basic obedience training or need to do anything else to satisfy a home ownwer's insurance company?

[Casshew]

Anyone who has or who has known a pitbull who was loving & sweet is just going to poo-pooh the arguments and statistics.

I hope for their sake they (or one of their children) does not become a statistic one day.

[Details]

I've known a loving and sweet pitbull - nice, wonderful dog - my big sister's family dog. Doesn't change the facts, doesn't change the genes, doesn't change the possibilities. They are more prone to be agressive. It's in the genes. When they snap, they go for the kill and people die. Even a good, loving, sweet, family pet pitbull can and does snap.

I also know a pedophile who seems to not be attacking and killing children. That doesn't change my point of view about the danger of pedophiles.

[curlytone]

What about all of the attacks mentioned in the link above? None of those 21% pitt bulls from that article were "trained" fighting dogs. They were pets. Your argument makes no sense to me Curly. I think you don't want to see what is so obvious. I've lived with trained police K-9s and there's no way any of them would attack another dog or person unprovoked the way pitts do.
Actually no, these are all of the statistics on dog related human deaths from 1965-2001. They don't categorize them by circumstance. Also, 21% translates to 90 or 91 (90.51) deaths from "PIT BULLS AND PIT BULL TYPE DOGS" over 36 years. That is not a wave of pit bulls sweeping the nation killing everyone in sight. That is an average of 2.5 people per year. There are 295,734,134 people in the US. That risk is miniscule. PLUS it says "PIT BULLS AND PIT BULL TYPE DOGS", they don't define pit bull type. None of the other breeds have an AND in there. Look at the pit bull ID link in my first post. There are 25 breeds in there that look similar (some identical) to pit bulls.

[Details]

That stat excludes those who survived the pitbull attack - it's not just the deaths, it's the people horribly maimed by pitbulls. It's an unnecessary risk. Spay and neuter every pitbull, and in a generation, they won't be a problem anymore.

[forthekids]

"What about all of the attacks mentioned in the link above? None of those 21% pitt bulls from that article were "trained" fighting dogs. They were pets. Your argument makes no sense to me Curly. I think you don't want to see what is so obvious. I've lived with trained police K-9s and there's no way any of them would attack another dog or person unprovoked the way pitts do."

Jeana:
If you read what curly had written in his first posting he stated,
"The owner’s dog has just hurt or killed someone. Police officers and reporters are asking about the dog. How likely is it that the owner is going to say, “Oh yeah, Rex has always been vicious. In fact, it was just a matter of time until this was going to happen. What, with all that illegal fighting that I’ve been training him for, I am surprised that this was his first kill.”? Of course they are going to say that the dog was always nice, if the owner has any chance of avoiding criminal charges."
I agree that the likihood of someone stating that their 'pet' is a fighting dog is highly unlikely.
Also I don't understand your argument or what is so obvious. You say you've lived with highly trained police dogs. Doesn't that say it all? They've been highly trained. Do you know that there are highly trained pit bulls that are part of Search and Rescue groups for 9-1-1? I'm sure the same statement would be true about them or any other highly trained dog. I guess I just don't understand your connection here.

Also everyone needs to keep in mind that 21% of and ave. of 20 deaths by all dog breeds isn't a huge number. I am really sorry that some of you have had really bad experiences with these these dogs, but for me personally, I've had a very scary situation as a child from a much smaller that did some damage to my face. I don't remeber the breed, but it was only about 10lbs. with very long hair.

[curlytone]

I went to obedience class because I feel it is part of being a responsible owner, but my insurance did not require it. I would not be opposed if the did; I think they should for all breeds.

[Jeana (DP)]

I went to obedience class because I feel it is part of being a responsible owner, but my insurance did not require it. I would not be opposed if the did; I think they should for all breeds.


Unless you called your insurance company and told them you were getting a pitt bull, you can't be sure they require it. If your dog attacks someone and they sue you, you'll find out soon enough if you're covered or not. My homeowners' policy from USAA wouldn't cover a pitt bull PERIOD and would only cover my GSD with certification of training.

[forthekids]

Actually no, these are all of the statistics on dog related human deaths from 1965-2001. They don't categorize them by circumstance. Also, 21% translates to 90 or 91 (90.51) deaths from "PIT BULLS AND PIT BULL TYPE DOGS" over 36 years. That is not a wave of pit bulls sweeping the nation killing everyone in sight. That is an average of 2.5 people per year. There are 295,734,134 people in the US. That risk is miniscule. PLUS it says "PIT BULLS AND PIT BULL TYPE DOGS", they don't define pit bull type. None of the other breeds have an AND in there. Look at the pit bull ID link in my first post. There are 25 breeds in there that look similar (some identical) to pit bulls.
In addition to the above post:
“Pit Bull type” dogs are the highest in fatal attacks but that in itself encompasses like 15 separate breeds, it is almost like saying the "hound dog" so that is blood hound, basset hound...etc. The stats are not accurate with Pit Bulls because they lump so many distinctly different breeds into one category. This ties into that whole find the Pit Bull test that we have all seen.

[Jeana (DP)]

Actually no, these are all of the statistics on dog related human deaths from 1965-2001. They don't categorize them by circumstance. Also, 21% translates to 90 or 91 (90.51) deaths from "PIT BULLS AND PIT BULL TYPE DOGS" over 36 years. That is not a wave of pit