Andrea Yates Granted New Trial!

[Only4Justice]

From CNN.com:

BREAKING NEWS Andrea Yates, the Houston woman convicted of drowning her five children in a bathtub, to get new trial, her attorney tells CNN.

I was very involved in this case. I was/am heartbroken over the death of these 5 children. No mother in her right mind would do this. I'm glad she's getting a new trial, hopefully she can get the help she needs.

The issue of postpartum depression/psychosis needs to be brought to the forefront as a real medical issue. (Poo Poo on Tom Cruise! :razz: )

[IdahoMom]

NO WAY!:eek:


omg...has she no remorse? Why can't she just take the punishment that was doled out to her?

[Jeana (DP)]

Andrea's conviction was actually overturned in January. At the time, her attorney said he wouldn't seek her release from the prison psychiatric hospital because he was concerned about her mental state at the time. Since that time her husband divorced her, making her mental state even more fragile. I don't believe that they will put her through a new trial, but they may, at some point, try to move her from the prison hospital to a hospital outside of the prison.

[Jeana (DP)]

NO WAY!:eek:


omg...has she no remorse? Why can't she just take the punishment that was doled out to her?


Ummmmm, because she's mentally ill?

[IdahoMom]

Ummmmm, because she's mentally ill?Ok...many people disagree about her case. I think she belongs in prison.

Editted to add: or mental health facility for the rest of her days.

IMO- don't shoot the messenger.

[Only4Justice]

Idaho Mom - During the first trial of Andrea Yates, I felt the same as you...that she deserved prison for what she did. She committed the most reprehensible crime.

After my anger subsided, and I thought it over and read various things about Andrea and her past, I changed my mind.

I don't want her ever to live in a free society again, but I think if anyone fits into the "insanity defense", it is Andrea Yates. If she isn't insane, I don't know who is.

IMO

[Jules]

I don't believe that they will put her through a new trial, but they may, at some point, try to move her from the prison hospital to a hospital outside of the prison.

I think they will put her through a new trial for the reason above. So that they can move her elsewhere.

IMO - I don't believe she should be in prison. She is sick and in need of help. She will not receive the type of help she needs being in prison. My heart breaks for her and her kids and what they all went through and continue to go through.

The one I do believe should be sitting in jail is her azz of a husband, Rusty. :furious:

[IdahoMom]

Idaho Mom - During the first trial of Andrea Yates, I felt the same as you...that she deserved prison for what she did. She committed the most reprehensible crime.

After my anger subsided, and I thought it over and read various things about Andrea and her past, I changed my mind.

I don't want her ever to live in a free society again, but I think if anyone fits into the "insanity defense", it is Andrea Yates. If she isn't insane, I don't know who is.

IMOThanks for your polite response. This is a loaded issue.

I just watched a show about her case the other night. Every time I see her darling children, it breaks my heart.
I realize she was very sick, but she has no place in our society- sorry, but her crime cancels her right to that.
It was especially heartbreaking to hear that her kids were afraid of her. :(

[IdahoMom]

The one I do believe should be sitting in jail is her azz of a husband, Rusty. :furious:
I agree he should be in jail, too. :mad:

[Only4Justice]

Every time I see her darling children, it breaks my heart.

I know. I had dreams about those children for a very long time. I could not get them out of my mind. Saddest case I've ever seen. :(

[IdahoMom]

I know. I had dreams about those children for a very long time. I could not get them out of my mind. Saddest case I've ever seen. :(
I agree. It's hard to look at the faces of her kids, knowing what they went through. Especially her son she chased through the house. :( :mad:

[Jules]

I realize she was very sick, but she has no place in our society- sorry, but her crime cancels her right to that.
It was especially heartbreaking to hear that her kids were afraid of her. :(

I disagree with the bolded statement (politely, of course). I fully believe that had she had the proper medical treatment, these crimes would have never happened. That's the heartbreaking point for me. When Rusty saw her slipping, he should have been more involved in getting her the help she needed. How he could let her go weeks without bathing - that is just plain disgusting. How can she possibly be left alone to care for 5 kids when she couldn't take care of herself? It was also reported that she didn't speak and rarely ate. Just how was she communicating with her kids? Did she ever feed them when she was alone with them?

As I said, had she had the correct medical treatment, I believe those kids would be alive today. The fact that they are dead, I blame on her husband.

[IdahoMom]

I disagree with the bolded statement (politely, of course). I fully believe that had she had the proper medical treatment, these crimes would have never happened. That's the heartbreaking point for me. When Rusty saw her slipping, he should have been more involved in getting her the help she needed. How he could let her go weeks without bathing - that is just plain disgusting. How can she possibly be left alone to care for 5 kids when she couldn't take care of herself? It was also reported that she didn't speak and rarely ate. Just how was she communicating with her kids? Did she ever feed them when she was alone with them?

As I said, had she had the correct medical treatment, I believe those kids would be alive today. The fact that they are dead, I blame on her husband.First of all- Jules- I love you like a sister. We need to agree to disagree on this case. :):angel:
But, what's done cannot be undone. Do you think she should be released eventually into society? In that event- what happens if she goes off her meds again?

[Jeana (DP)]

I think they will put her through a new trial for the reason above. So that they can move her elsewhere.

IMO - I don't believe she should be in prison. She is sick and in need of help. She will not receive the type of help she needs being in prison. My heart breaks for her and her kids and what they all went through and continue to go through.

The one I do believe should be sitting in jail is her azz of a husband, Rusty. :furious:


Her conviction was overturned. Unless and until the prosecutor decides they WANT a new trial, she can be moved anywhere they agree she can be moved to.

[bugs]

It really is a sad case all the way around. I still remember her talking about the older son running from her once he figured out what she was doing. She is mentally ill and she should be in a mental hospital but evaluated every six months.

[Jules]

Her conviction was overturned. Unless and until the prosecutor decides they WANT a new trial, she can be moved anywhere they agree she can be moved to.

HOUSTON, Texas (AP) -- Texas' highest criminal court on Wednesday let stand a lower court ruling that threw out Andrea Yates' murder convictions for drowning her children in a bathtub in June 2001.

Harris County Assistant District Attorney Alan Curry said the case would be retried or a plea bargain considered.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/11/09/yates.newtrial.ap/index.html

[Jules]

First of all- Jules- I love you like a sister. We need to agree to disagree on this case. :):angel:
But, what's done cannot be undone. Do you think she should be released eventually into society? In that event- what happens if she goes off her meds again?

No, I don't think she should be released back into society. I do believe she should be in a treatment facility never to be let out - but not in prison.

And I love you too! :blowkiss:

[cinsbythesea]

Count me in as another who initially was appalled by Andrea. But as the full story was revealed I began to feel very badly for her. It's a tragic story all the way around. I don't believe that Andrea will ever be able to function in the free world again-but rather than being locked up in a prison I think a hospital setting would be more beneficial to her, as from what I've read, she goes into deep episodes of depression etc and goes in and out of phases of reality. When Rusty told her he was divorcing her she stopped eating and they had to hospitalize her for days to tube-feed her. I have followed this case from day one and this case really pulls at my heart strings big time. I hope she is given a new trial and placed in a hospital. And I REALLY hope Rusty doesn't jump from talk show to talk show to talk show once a new verdict is in like he did the last time. I'm of the opinion he too should have been brought up on charges-don't care for him AT ALL.

[Jeana (DP)]

HOUSTON, Texas (AP) -- Texas' highest criminal court on Wednesday let stand a lower court ruling that threw out Andrea Yates' murder convictions for drowning her children in a bathtub in June 2001.

Harris County Assistant District Attorney Alan Curry said the case would be retried or a plea bargain considered.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/11/09/yates.newtrial.ap/index.html


Darlin, I'm not sure if we're disagreeing or not. LOL The district attorney has to decide it wants to retry her. My feeling is that her attorney will work out an agreement with the prosecutors whereby she would be committed to a psychiatric hospital for probably the rest of her life. While she's been in "prison" since her conviction, she's been in a "psychiatric hospital" in the prison for almost 100% of her time there because she's psychotic to the point of not being able to speak. If the prosecutor decides they want to retry her, what they'd essentially be doing is waiting until she's declared competent to even stand trial for a second time and then whether she's declared not guilty by reason of mental illness or she's convicted and sentenced to life in prison, she'll end up . . . guess where . . . in the same psychiatric hospital she's in now or the one they'll agree to move her to. SO, the State can spend hundreds of thousands more of its dollars to do absolutely nothing but keep her where she is, or they can just agree that its ridiculous to do so and come up with some sort of agreement on the constraints of her hospitalization.

[Only4Justice]

I agree. It's hard to look at the faces of her kids, knowing what they went through. Especially her son she chased through the house. :( :mad:

I know. He was 7 years old. He definitely knew what was happening. And, his name was Noah, the name of one of my dear sons. So very very sad. :(

[cinsbythesea]

Darlin, I'm not sure if we're disagreeing or not. LOL The district attorney has to decide it wants to retry her. My feeling is that her attorney will work out an agreement with the prosecutors whereby she would be committed to a psychiatric hospital for probably the rest of her life. While she's been in "prison" since her conviction, she's been in a "psychiatric hospital" in the prison for almost 100% of her time there because she's psychotic to the point of not being able to speak. If the prosecutor decides they want to retry her, what they'd essentially be doing is waiting until she's declared competent to even stand trial for a second time and then whether she's declared not guilty by reason of mental illness or she's convicted and sentenced to life in prison, she'll end up . . . guess where . . . in the same psychiatric hospital she's in now or the one they'll agree to move her to. SO, the State can spend hundreds of thousands more of its dollars to do absolutely nothing but keep her where she is, or they can just agree that its ridiculous to do so and come up with some sort of agreement on the constraints of her hospitalization.

This makes great sense, thanks for clarifying. Would Andrea even be mentally strong enough to endure another trial? I'm not thinking so. Her attorney seems to genuinely care about her-hopefully he can come to some agreement with the prosecutor and get her where she needs to be with the least amount of stress possible on her.

[Jules]

Darlin, I'm not sure if we're disagreeing or not. LOL The district attorney has to decide it wants to retry her. My feeling is that her attorney will work out an agreement with the prosecutors whereby she would be committed to a psychiatric hospital for probably the rest of her life. While she's been in "prison" since her conviction, she's been in a "psychiatric hospital" in the prison for almost 100% of her time there because she's psychotic to the point of not being able to speak. If the prosecutor decides they want to retry her, what they'd essentially be doing is waiting until she's declared competent to even stand trial for a second time and then whether she's declared not guilty by reason of mental illness or she's convicted and sentenced to life in prison, she'll end up . . . guess where . . . in the same psychiatric hospital she's in now or the one they'll agree to move her to. SO, the State can spend hundreds of thousands more of its dollars to do absolutely nothing but keep her where she is, or they can just agree that its ridiculous to do so and come up with some sort of agreement on the constraints of her hospitalization.

Heehee! No, we're not disagreeing. I just hope they offer her a plea and put her in a hospital somewhere where she will continue to get the help she needs - not in a prison psychiatric hospital. My guess is there are far better places out there than where she is. That was my point... ;)

[Only4Justice]

Heehee! No, we're not disagreeing. I just hope they offer her a plea and put her in a hospital somewhere where she will continue to get the help she needs - not in a prison psychiatric hospital. My guess is there are far better places out there than where she is. That was my point... ;)

This is true. I remember when she was convicted and sentenced, it was said that she would not get the care she needed in a prison hospital. She needs the care she could receive in a mental hospital.

I can't imagine she will ever be free again, and I hope not.

As someone mentioned above, this senseless tragedy could have been avoided, if only the people around her (particularly her so-called husband), would have gotten her the proper treatment and quit getting her pregnant! I don't understand and I never will, how he could leave her alone with those children day after day when she was in the shape she was in!

Rusty definitely bears alot of responsibility in this tragedy, but ultimately Andrea committed the crime.

IMO

[Jeana (DP)]

Heehee! No, we're not disagreeing. I just hope they offer her a plea and put her in a hospital somewhere where she will continue to get the help she needs - not in a prison psychiatric hospital. My guess is there are far better places out there than where she is. That was my point... ;)


LOL To tell you the truth, I'm not sure which hospital would be better. "State run psychiatric hospital," to me, sounds like hell on earth. I get the feeling that her attorney wasn't all that unhappy about the way she's been treated at the prison hospital. I seem to recall hearing someone on her team say that she's better off there - at least for now. I guess we'll hear more about all of this in the weeks to come. If the prosecutor does decide to retry her, I for one, will be sending a pretty strongly worded letter to them. My tax dollars can be used for better things, IMO.

I feel that Rusty had a lot responsibility in all of this, but I've always wondered why her doctors were not more responsible. Not just for her own wellbeing, but for the kids' as well. They KNEW her situation at home and put her children, in my opinion, in harm's way. I'd like to see children protected more at that level.

[IdahoMom]

As someone mentioned above, this senseless tragedy could have been avoided, if only the people around her (particularly her so-called husband), would have gotten her the proper treatment and quit getting her pregnant! I don't understand and I never will, how he could leave her alone with those children day after day when she was in the shape she was in!

IMOThe sad thing is, she said in her recorded police interview, she was planning to do this for some time before...she just waited until Rusty and his Mom (?) were both gone. (sorry-but I can't emember if it was Rusty's Mom or her Mom that had been staying at the house)

[IdahoMom]

She should be incarcerated in some capacity for the rest of her life (and, yes, a mental facility would be best):

Andrea, about Noah's last moments, from CourtTV:

http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/women/andrea_yates/2.html

When Andrea was finished with Mary, she left her floating in the water and called to her oldest son, Noah.
He came right away. "What happened to Mary?" he asked. Then apparently realizing what his mother was doing, he ran from the bathroom but Andrea chased him down and dragged him back to the tub. She forced him in face down and drowned him right next to Mary. She admitted in her confession that he had put up the biggest struggle of all. At times he managed to slip from her grasp and get some air, but she always managed to push him back down. His last words were, "I'm sorry." She left him there floating in a tub full of feces, urine and vomit, where police found him.

[Jules]

His last words were, "I'm sorry."

Oh that made me cry. That poor child. I can't imagine the horror he felt.

[deanws]

Andrea's conviction was actually overturned in January. At the time, her attorney said he wouldn't seek her release from the prison psychiatric hospital because he was concerned about her mental state at the time. Since that time her husband divorced her, making her mental state even more fragile. I don't believe that they will put her through a new trial, but they may, at some point, try to move her from the prison hospital to a hospital outside of the prison.I believe removing her from a prison hospital and into a psy. hospital is the right decision. I hope that is what Texas decides to do. I believe that is what her family wants also. Everyone in her family knows she needs serious help. Rusty deserves to take her place in prison. That B@stard is slime!:slap:

[blueclouds]

I'm very thankful that she's getting a new trial. NOTHING excuses killing children EVER and she needs to be locked up for eternity HOWEVER she needs to be in a mental facility as I truly believe she cracked.

I also think her EX husband that LOVES AND ADORES HER AND WOULD STAND BY HER needs his hiney in jail too. He's just as culpable IF NOT MORE!!!!!!!!!!!

[deanws]

The sad thing is, she said in her recorded police interview, she was planning to do this for some time before...she just waited until Rusty and his Mom (?) were both gone. (sorry-but I can't emember if it was Rusty's Mom or her Mom that had been staying at the house)Well, the reason she was waiting to do this is because the "cult" guy that was giving her religious instruction said that it was her responsibility to make sure her kids were all going to heaven. She, in her mental state, believed that she was a horrible mother and was dooming her children to hell because she couldn't make them holy. Thus, she thought she had to end their lives before the age of accountability approached. In her sick mind, she was saving their souls. So very sad. Rusty knew she was ill...and getting sicker every minute that passed. He had been told that having more children was a tremendous risk to Andrea. He didn't care. What a loser. He deserves to serve time in jail as well. God, I hope the fool doesn't have anymore children..though I know he will.:sick:

[michelle]

The sad thing is, she said in her recorded police interview, she was planning to do this for some time before...she just waited until Rusty and his Mom (?) were both gone. (sorry-but I can't emember if it was Rusty's Mom or her Mom that had been staying at the house)
I remember hearing that too, but my thing is she had been planning these murders if she was waiting for people to leave to do them, wouldnt that suggest that she was in her right mind enough to know what she was doing?

[Jeana (DP)]

I remember hearing that too, but my thing is she had been planning these murders if she was waiting for people to leave to do them, wouldnt that suggest that she was in her right mind enough to know what she was doing?

Yes, you're right. Rusty's mother had been coming to stay with her during the day because she was in such bad shape, they knew she couldn't care for the children properly. There was, I believe, about a 25-minute window of opportunity between the time Rusty left and his mother arrived.

She KNEW what she was doing was wrong, and that's where the wording of the laws in Texas comes into play. Hard for a jury to find her not guilty by reason of insanity if they properly apply the law. However, its long been my contention that the law is worded wrongly. Some states' laws say if a mental illness was the proximate cause of the crime, then the jury can consider the mental illness as a defense. Texas is long overdue in reviewing these laws, IMO.

[deanws]

I'm very thankful that she's getting a new trial. NOTHING excuses killing children EVER and she needs to be locked up for eternity HOWEVER she needs to be in a mental facility as I truly believe she cracked.

I also think her EX husband that LOVES AND ADORES HER AND WOULD STAND BY HER needs his hiney in jail too. He's just as culpable IF NOT MORE!!!!!!!!!!!I believe that is what they are asking for, or at least it was about 6 months ago. See..she is on a cycle. When they get her meds working, she realizes what she did...then goes off the deep end again. She will never recover. She is not an evil person, just a very VERY ill one. God bless her soul. Many people in her life contributed to this tragedy. Her husband for not listening to the doctor about having more children. Her shrink for taking her off some of the meds suddenly instead of weaning her off like you should do. The loser "cult" guy that was filling her sick head with bunk and caused her tremendous guilt. Those poor sweet babies. I know they a beautiful angels now. No, she needs not ever to be walking the streets free again. However, she needs attention that I don't believe she will get in a prison situation. :(

[Jeana (DP)]

I believe that is what they are asking for, or at least it was about 6 months ago. See..she is on a cycle. When they gets her meds working, she realizes what she did...then goes off the deep end again. She will never recover. She is not an evil person, just a very VERY ill one. God bless her soul. Many people in her life contributed to this tragedy. Her husband for not listening to the doctor about having more children. Her shrink for taking her off some of the meds suddenly instead of weaning her off like you should do. The loser "cult" guy that was filling her sick head with bunk and caused her tremendous guilt. Those poor sweet babies. I know they a beautiful angels now. No, she needs not ever to be walking the streets free again. However, she needs attention that I don't believe she will get in a prison situation. :(


:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
Very well said.

[bugs]

I believe that is what they are asking for, or at least it was about 6 months ago. See..she is on a cycle. When they gets her meds working, she realizes what she did...then goes off the deep end again. She will never recover. She is not an evil person, just a very VERY ill one. God bless her soul. Many people in her life contributed to this tragedy. Her husband for not listening to the doctor about having more children. Her shrink for taking her off some of the meds suddenly instead of weaning her off like you should do. The loser "cult" guy that was filling her sick head with bunk and caused her tremendous guilt. Those poor sweet babies. I know they a beautiful angels now. No, she needs not ever to be walking the streets free again. However, she needs attention that I don't believe she will get in a prison situation. :(


Excellent post!!

[Jeana (DP)]

"It's a good day," defense attorney George Parnham said. "The whole issue of mental health, specifically women's mental health, has been championed in this decision." (See video about Yates' new trial -- 3:05)

Parnham said a new trial is a mixed blessing, because Yates will have to relive the horror of her children's deaths, but added, "She needs to be found not guilty by reason of insanity."

Parnham told CNN he would try to strike a plea agreement that would send Yates to a mental health facility rather than prison.

"She has been told that she will be retried." She is not looking forward to a retrial, he said.

"She would gladly forgo this process," he said, "but you know, the right thing needs to be done here, and we're going to do it."

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/11/09/andreayates.retrial/index.html

[Details]

Yes, you're right. Rusty's mother had been coming to stay with her during the day because she was in such bad shape, they knew she couldn't care for the children properly. There was, I believe, about a 25-minute window of opportunity between the time Rusty left and his mother arrived.

She KNEW what she was doing was wrong, and that's where the wording of the laws in Texas comes into play.I'm not sure that meant she knew it was wrong - she just knew that they'd try to stop her.

I don't see her as much of a danger after some treatment. For her it's not a matter so much of the meds, as of never again being married to an idiot who tells her she's responsible for the children, having a ton of young children, living in a lousy trailer or whatever where there's a ton of work, and being overstressed, all at once. It was a bit of a perfect storm - the preacher who told her the children's souls were her responsibility, the depression, the uncaring husband who kept getting her pregnant knowing the risks to his wife, the lousy and stressful living conditions the husband insisted on, just everything. Take away any one of these items, and those kids would be alive and Andrea Yates would be no threat to anyone at all.

But she'll need probably a decade of therapy at the least in a hospital. I know what she did, but I feel sorry for her because I really don't think she would have done it had one person in her life shown the least bit of compassion or common sense. The doctors or the husband, possibly even the mother in law could have seen she was really sick, and taken care of her, and nothing would have happened. So very little was required to prevent this, and none of them did it. She was obviously sick enough she shouldn't have been left alone for 45 minutes! Even if they couldn't see what she would do to the children, it should have been obvious what she might do to herself (not that I think Rusty cared about that).

[Casshew]

Wow, I just heard the news... I am so glad she is getting a new trial, she (IMO) is mentally ill.

[MrsMush99]

I'm glad she's getting a new trial too. Although, I think she shouldn't be in jail but a mental facility that can help her.

[Casshew]

I agree with you Mushy :blowkiss:

Although, I am not sure how much help people get in these institutes and maybe prison would be a better envornment. (I have heard some horror stories about how patients are treated/mistreated)

[Only4Justice]

:( She should be incarcerated in some capacity for the rest of her life (and, yes, a mental facility would be best):

Andrea, about Noah's last moments, from CourtTV:

http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/women/andrea_yates/2.html

When Andrea was finished with Mary, she left her floating in the water and called to her oldest son, Noah.
He came right away. "What happened to Mary?" he asked. Then apparently realizing what his mother was doing, he ran from the bathroom but Andrea chased him down and dragged him back to the tub. She forced him in face down and drowned him right next to Mary. She admitted in her confession that he had put up the biggest struggle of all. At times he managed to slip from her grasp and get some air, but she always managed to push him back down. His last words were, "I'm sorry." She left him there floating in a tub full of feces, urine and vomit, where police found him.

Oh, Idaho Mom, I was sick for months over the death of these children. That poor child. My heart is breaking again....

This is one sick woman. She will never be well. If she was to get well, she would have to face what she did. Who could face that?

IMO

[PrayersForMaura]

Five mental health experts testified that Yates did not know right from wrong or that she thought drowning her children was right. Dietz was the only mental health expert to testify for the prosecution and the only one who testified she knew right from wrong.

While prosecutors agreed Yates was mentally ill, they argued that the illness was not severe enough to impede her ability to know right from wrong. Jurors agreed, and did not declare her legally insane.

Yates, 41, was sentenced to life in prison and is jailed at a psychiatric prison in East Texas.

In spite of the unlikelihood of a plea deal — in which Yates would plead guilty to the killings rather than not guilty by reason of insanity — there is one scenario that both the defense and the prosecution could agree to.

"The government would have to give up the ghost on seeking the death penalty, the sentence being life in an institution instead of in jail [with the rest of the prison population] without the possibility of parole," FOX News senior judicial analyst Judge Andrew Napolitano told FOXNews.com. "That's the only guilty plea that would be acceptable."

Yates isn't currently housed with the general inmate population, and Napolitano said both sides would have to concur that she should spend the rest of her life in either a mental institution or a psychiatric prison without the chance of ever going free.

"The jury found that she is not a danger to anybody else, that she’s so crazy she couldn’t hurt a fly in jail," Napolitano told FOXNews.com.

But Texas prosecutors are elected, meaning they have to answer to voters.

"It's a rough-and-tumble, swaggering electorate who like to see the guilty punished to the max," Napolitano said. "I don't know that a plea deal is in the cards. It depends on the political wishes of the prosecutor."

The murders of the Yates children, the youngest a 6-month-old baby and the oldest a 7-year-old, horrified the country and became a high-profile instance of postpartum depression used in an insanity defense.

Yates' name has been frequently evoked in similar cases, most recently last month when a young mother dropped her three young children to their deaths in the San Francisco Bay.

More: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,175041,00.html

[IdahoMom]

I have a friend, who had a neighbor that was mentally ill. This woman when on her meds (no one knew)was a little vacant, but was well known in the community, and seemed to dote on children. One day, she walked over to my friend's house. My friend and her 3 kids were playing around on the front lawn. Her neighbor said- "Do you want to come down to my house and feed the squirrels? They're practically eating out of my hands today." My friend and kids went to the neighbor's. The neighbor lady said "I have a treat inside for _ _ _ _." She took this little girl by the hand and proceeded downstairs to a bathroom. She took her into the bathroom, locked the door and proceeded to slit my friend's daughter's throat, and stab her in the neck several times. She then went back outside and said to my friend, "I just killed your baby".

My friend screamed for help, ran in the house, grabbed her daughter and ran with her into the middle of the street, screaming for help. Luckily a few people came out and held the gaping wound shut, while paramedics came. My friend's daughter is alive by the grace of God...all major veins/arteries were missed by fraction of an inch.

This woman went to court, and her attornies fought to keep her in the home while waiting for trial- said she was mentally ill, temporarily off her meds and a mental hospital would further her decline.To the dismay and disgust of the community, this woman was returned to her house. It came out she was left at home alone, unmedicated again. Her PO said she started having impulses to harm people with scissors/knives.

Eventually, she was held in a hospital for a short period of time. She is now living in a different neighborhood-probably with unsuspecting neighbors.

I am very sorry, but I think that once someone commits a crime of this nature, they forfeit any chance of ever returning to society again. I don't mean to sound harsh, but Andrea Yates needed to be out of the house long before any of the damage occurred. Her kids were scared of her! People said she had the look of a wild animal at times! My God, someone needs to protect the innocent people in our society, rather than slap a bandage on the mentally ill and put them back in the home. IMO

[PrayersForMaura]

Oh my goodness, Idahomom, that is awful! I shudder just thinking about that!
Good God!
That is absolutely horrifying.
I feel ill just visualizing that.

I hope your friend has recovered just psychologically and emotionally from that.... and her daughter, too.

[Cassata11]

I have been waiting to see if she would get a new trial after Dr. Dietz testified incorrectly at her first trial. I remember watching the trial, or at least the sentancing on CourtTv. I have also read most of the transcripts. It's sad that a women on that kind of intense mind controlling drugs was left alone for any amount of time. The hospitizalations and the flippant usage of the drugs would be enough for anyone to lose it. Did you know it was only days before the murders that a Dr. said she was OK, and took her off of Haldol? Not even a week earlier she was suicidal, and talking about death!?!?

I don't know about anyone else...but my doctor gave me Wellbutrin to quit smoking, and it takes several weeks to build up AND come out of your system. I thought I was manic! (LMAO)

I would like to see Andrea's doctors have to take some responsibility as well.

As for Andrea, she is a sick woman that did a terrible act. Whatever the outcome, I hope that she is able to receive treatment.

Love and Light...Cassata

[IdahoMom]

I hope your friend has recovered just psychologically and emotionally from that.... and her daughter, too.
My friend has not recovered the way that I would hope. It has taken her years and years of work. She is working at it.

Her daughter is doing quite well. Very full of life and funny.

This event sent ripples through our community. I am very protective of my kids, and this I play through my mind frequently when they're away from me.

[Jeana (DP)]

This was her attorney's comment:

Parnham said a new trial is a mixed blessing, because Yates will have to relive the horror of her children's deaths, but added, "She needs to be found not guilty by reason of insanity."

_______________________________________________

I don't know how far he's willing to take this in order to try and make this happen. I guess it depends on what the prosecution offers. However, this case strikes up huge emotions. It may not be too difficult to find another jury who think she needs to go to prison.

If she's really as bad off emotionally/mentally as we've been told, how competent is she to aid in her own defense? How competent is she to be able to let Parnham know whether she wants another trial or not?

[Jeana (DP)]

I am very sorry, but I think that once someone commits a crime of this nature, they forfeit any chance of ever returning to society again. I don't mean to sound harsh, but Andrea Yates needed to be out of the house long before any of the damage occurred. Her kids were scared of her! People said she had the look of a wild animal at times! My God, someone needs to protect the innocent people in our society, rather than slap a bandage on the mentally ill and put them back in the home. IMO


There's no danger of her ever being released.

[PaperDoll]

I was following this case as well, and my heart breaks listening to how she drowned her children... I believe she is mentally ill but I also believe she knew what she did was wrong. She called the police right after the drownings and confessed.. That tells me she knew she had committed a crime..

[IdahoMom]

There's no danger of her ever being released.
I am saying that across the board- once a crime of this nature is committed, the offender needs to be removed permanently.

The problem is when the ill go off of their meds...they could be law-abiding citizens right up until the crime is committed. ( I don't know the answer to keeping them on their meds.) The Mom that dropped her 3 babies off the pier in SF is a prime example.

[Jeana (DP)]

I was following this case as well, and my heart breaks listening to how she drowned her children... I believe she is mentally ill but I also believe she knew what she did was wrong. She called the police right after the drownings and confessed.. That tells me she knew she had committed a crime..


Darlin, you just proved my point above. I think the prosecutor could find 12 people who think the way that you do pretty easily.

[IdahoMom]

I was following this case as well, and my heart breaks listening to how she drowned her children... I believe she is mentally ill but I also believe she knew what she did was wrong. She called the police right after the drownings and confessed.. That tells me she knew she had committed a crime..
I struggle with that too. :(

[michelle]

Idaho mom, that is the stuff that freaks me out and why i am so protective of my little one. You never know what is going on with your neighbors who "seem to be normal" or anyone for that matter....Its a scary place for kids these days...

[nanandjim]

...The one I do believe should be sitting in jail is her azz of a husband, Rusty. :furious:
:clap: :clap: I agree. I think that Andrea is sick and should be hospitalized. However, I think that her husband is sane and should go to prison.

[Jules]

:clap: :clap: I agree. I think that Andrea is sick and should be hospitalized. However, I think that her husband is sane and should go to prison.

Opps, just noticed I wrote husband - should be ex-husband - or husband-at-the-time. Or how about just :loser: .

[michelle]

I watched the andrea yates E true story this monday and i couldnt help but notice how rustys demeanor was when he talked about the children, it was almost like it hasnt sunk in or something, i remember seeing david smith, susan smiths ex hubby talk about his boys and he would bawl like a wild man, i would cry everytime i seen him on tv....

[BillyGoatGruff]

NO WAY!:eek:


omg...has she no remorse? Why can't she just take the punishment that was doled out to her?
Since it's been pretty clear from the start the woman is clinically insane, this is actually more justice than I expected from the state of Texas. If the mom who bashed her kids' brains out because God told her to can be found insane, then Yates deserves a retrial. As it is, she'll never walk outside institutional walls again in her life. And state mental hospitals are no picnic.

[PaperDoll]

I struggle with that too. :(

Maybe a part of her wanted to get locked up.. :waitasec: maybe she was that mentally ill... if she knew she was going to kill her kids, I'm wondering why she didn't call the police before she did it to help stop her and maybe she would have gotten some help.. I know she was showing signs of needing help and it seemed like everyone around her were ignoring it.. I can only answer for how I think I would be if I were that mentally ill... I would hope someone would lock me up from doing something so terrible... :(

[IdahoMom]

Since it's been pretty clear from the start the woman is clinically insane, this is actually more justice than I expected from the state of Texas. If the mom who bashed her kids' brains out because God told her to can be found insane, then Yates deserves a retrial. As it is, she'll never walk outside institutional walls again in her life. And state mental hospitals are no picnic.
Her babies still got worse (killed at the hands of their mother), than she ever will. IMO

[michelle]

Maybe a part of her wanted to get locked up.. :waitasec: maybe she was that mentally ill... if she knew she was going to kill her kids, I'm wondering why she didn't call the police before she did it to help stop her and maybe she would have gotten some help.. I know she was showing signs of needing help and it seemed like everyone around her were ignoring it.. I can only answer for how I think I would be if I were that mentally ill... I would hope someone would lock me up from doing something so terrible... :(
I agree paperdoll, i have always struggled with the fact that andrea knew she was going to kill these kids and waited until she was in the clear and then she did it....I wonder too why she didnt call and say to someone, "look i am having these thoughts, ect..."

[Jeana (DP)]

Maybe a part of her wanted to get locked up.. :waitasec: maybe she was that mentally ill... if she knew she was going to kill her kids, I'm wondering why she didn't call the police before she did it to help stop her and maybe she would have gotten some help.. I know she was showing signs of needing help and it seemed like everyone around her were ignoring it.. I can only answer for how I think I would be if I were that mentally ill... I would hope someone would lock me up from doing something so terrible... :(


From what I remember, she was of the mind that she was destroying them spiratually or something to that effect because she was a bad mother. She thought she had to kill them before their souls were evil. She didn't want to be stopped because that meant the kids going to hell. Now she is merely a danger to herself.

[Casshew]

IdahoMom, that story about your friend's neighbour gave me chills - that poor little girl, I am so glad she recovered, what a nightmare!

[michelle]

I remember her saying something like she had to kill them to save their souls, pretty much on the same line as susan smith..

[BillyGoatGruff]

Her babies still got worse (killed at the hands of their mother), than she ever will. IMO
Only if you equate suffering and pain with the immediate physical realm.

[NewMom2003]

I have a friend, who had a neighbor that was mentally ill. This woman when on her meds (no one knew)was a little vacant, but was well known in the community, and seemed to dote on children. One day, she walked over to my friend's house. My friend and her 3 kids were playing around on the front lawn. Her neighbor said- "Do you want to come down to my house and feed the squirrels? They're practically eating out of my hands today." My friend and kids went to the neighbor's. The neighbor lady said "I have a treat inside for _ _ _ _." She took this little girl by the hand and proceeded downstairs to a bathroom. She took her into the bathroom, locked the door and proceeded to slit my friend's daughter's throat, and stab her in the neck several times. She then went back outside and said to my friend, "I just killed your baby".

My friend screamed for help, ran in the house, grabbed her daughter and ran with her into the middle of the street, screaming for help. Luckily a few people came out and held the gaping wound shut, while paramedics came. My friend's daughter is alive by the grace of God...all major veins/arteries were missed by fraction of an inch.

This woman went to court, and her attornies fought to keep her in the home while waiting for trial- said she was mentally ill, temporarily off her meds and a mental hospital would further her decline.To the dismay and disgust of the community, this woman was returned to her house. It came out she was left at home alone, unmedicated again. Her PO said she started having impulses to harm people with scissors/knives.

Eventually, she was held in a hospital for a short period of time. She is now living in a different neighborhood-probably with unsuspecting neighbors.

I am very sorry, but I think that once someone commits a crime of this nature, they forfeit any chance of ever returning to society again. I don't mean to sound harsh, but Andrea Yates needed to be out of the house long before any of the damage occurred. Her kids were scared of her! People said she had the look of a wild animal at times! My God, someone needs to protect the innocent people in our society, rather than slap a bandage on the mentally ill and put them back in the home. IMO

OMG IdahoMom. This is one of the most heartbreaking and scariest things I've ever read. Thank God your friend's daughter survived this. This story sent shivers down my spine.


About Andrea Yates, I'm happy to hear that she will be getting a new trial. No, I don't think she should ever be released back into society. I think she needs serious psychiatric help that she should have gotten years ago. If that a$$hole ex-husband of hers had paid more attention to her, their children, and the situations they were living in maybe this horrible tragedy would have never happened. I place alot of blame on Rusty and I think he needs to be in prison. I feel sorry for the next woman he marries.

[michelle]

I wouldnt want to be in andreas shoes or any mom who has killed their children....I cant imagine, death would come as a relief...

[BillyGoatGruff]

I agree paperdoll, i have always struggled with the fact that andrea knew she was going to kill these kids and waited until she was in the clear and then she did it....I wonder too why she didnt call and say to someone, "look i am having these thoughts, ect..."
She didn't call anyone for help with her mental state because she was a complete and utter hollowed out shell by that point,thanks largely to a non-supportive and isolating family structure, exemplified by her grinning knuckle-knob of a husband.
Insanity is far more subtle (and insidious) than simply acknowledging the difference between what SANE people know is right and wrong. That's why they need "guilty but insane" added to the jury choices. We've made immense leaps and bounds in understanding brain chemistry and mental illness over the last 30 years, but the judicial concept of insanity is mired in the late 19th century, where they expect the insane to be drooling, crapping themselves in public , and incapable of coming in from the poring rain (which sounds more like they were describing mental retardation than insanity, to me--since back then they made no distinction between the two conditions and would lock the mentally handicapped up with the insane).

[littlefeet]

You know most of the cases where the mother kills her children that I have heard of over the years, excluding Susan Smith of course, have involved insanity, mixed together with weird religious beliefs or some other belief about "saving" the child, whether it be their soul or just their lives.

I knew a man here locally who was one of the oldest of 6 children and luckily for him one of the two who were old enough to have been in school the day that his mother became delusional and thought that the world was on fire and threw the other four children into the well drowning them all.

I also watched a talk show about women prisoners who a governor who was on his last term pardoned from their life sentences for crimes to do with killing their abusive spouses and one woman who had drowned her baby. She too had been diagnosed with PP depression and had become delusional, that a demon was possessing her child and believed that by holding him underwater until he drowned that she would kill the demon inside him and that he would then be saved. At least that's what she said the voices in her head told her.

[Jeana (DP)]

She didn't call anyone for help with her mental state because she was a complete and utter hollowed out shell by that point,thanks largely to a non-supportive and isolating family structure, exemplified by her grinning knuckle-knob of a husband.
Insanity is far more subtle (and insidious) than simply acknowledging the difference between what SANE people know is right and wrong. That's why they need "guilty but insane" added to the jury choices. We've made immense leaps and bounds in understanding brain chemistry and mental illness over the last 30 years, but the judicial concept of insanity is mired in the late 19th century, where they expect the insane to be drooling, crapping themselves in public , and incapable of coming in from the poring rain (which sounds more like they were describing mental retardation than insanity, to me--since back then they made no distinction between the two conditions and would lock the mentally handicapped up with the insane).


EXACTLY.

[NewMom2003]

I remember her saying something like she had to kill them to save their souls, pretty much on the same line as susan smith..

I remember something about that as well with the Susan Smith trial, but I don't think it is even in the same ballpark as the AY tragedy. IMO, Susan Smith methodically killed her children and knew exactly what she was doing. I truly believe Andrea (in her own mind) killed her children to save their souls. Susan Smith killed her sons to get a man.

[michelle]

Oh i dont buy for one minute that susan smith was as mentally ill as andrea yates, although i do think she has some mental issues....Susan smith did think though that by drowning her children she would let them be with Jesus and away from the horrible world...So she was a little out there too.....Although she was too chicken to kill herself in the end like she originally planned on doing..

[Jeana (DP)]

Oh i dont buy for one minute that susan smith was as mentally ill as andrea yates, although i do think she has some mental issues....Susan smith did think though that by drowning her children she would let them be with Jesus and away from the horrible world...So she was a little out there too.....Although she was too chicken to kill herself in the end like she originally planned on doing..


Susan Smith had the same type of mental illness as Darlie Routier and Debbie Milke - narcassism.

[michelle]

Susan Smith had the same type of mental illness as Darlie Routier and Debbie Milke - narcassism.
I think that susan smith was and does have mental issues.....It was testified that she was severly depressed and she was on medications and then stopped so i dont think she was like darlie routier where darlie still says she didnt kill her kids and i think darlie was just plain selfish...IMO

[bugs]

I took the following from the Crime Library web page on women who murder. I think Rusty SHOULD be held accountable.
__________________________________________

Rusty introduced Andrea to a preacher who had impressed him in college, a man named Michael Woroniecki. He was a sharp-witted, sharp-tongued, self-proclaimed "prophet" who preached a simple message about following Jesus but who was so belligerent in public about sinners going to hell (which included most people) that he was often in trouble. He even left Michigan, according to Mugshots, to avoid prosecution.


Rusty corresponded with Woroniecki, who wandered around with his family for several years in a bus, and eventually he believed he had found the Holy Spirit. Woroniecki spent a lot of time in his street sermons and letters to correspondents judging them for their sins and warning them about losing God's love. In particular, he emphasized that people were accountable for children, and woe to the person who might cause even one to stumble. He once stated, "I feel like I need a sledge hammer to get you to listen." He denounced Catholicism, the religion with which Andrea had grown up, and stressed the sinful state of her soul.

He also preached austerity, and his ideas were probably instrumental in the way the Yateses decided to live. As Andrea had one child after another, she took on the task of home-schooling them with Christian-only texts and trying to do what the Woroniecki and his wife, Rachel, told her.

"From the letters I have that Rachel Woroniecki wrote to Andrea," says Suzy Spencer on Mugshots, "it was, 'You are evil. You are wicked. You are a daughter of Eve, who is a wicked witch. The window of opportunity for us to minister to you is closing. You have to repent now.'"

According to a former follower, the religion preached by the Woronieckis involves the idea that women have Eve's witch nature and need to be subservient to men. The preacher judged harshly those mothers who were permissive and who allowed their children to go in the wrong direction. In other words, if the mother was going to Hell for some reason, so would the children.

After two more children had come along, Rusty decided to "travel light," and made his small family sell their possessions and live first in a recreational vehicle and then in a bus that Woroniecki had converted for his religious crusade and sold to them. Andrea didn't complain—she was the type of woman who just went along with decisions---but she got pregnant again and had a miscarriage. Yet it wasn't long before she recovered, was again pregnant and had her fourth child, making their 350-square-foot living quarters rather cramped. She continued to correspond with the Woronieckis and to receive their warnings. They thought it was better to kill oneself than to mislead a child in the way of Jesus—a sentiment she would repeat later in prison interviews.

Not surprisingly, she sank into a depression. She was lonely. She tried to be a good mother, but the pressures were building. At the same time, her father grew ill with Alzheimer's and she had to help care for him. Then things got bad.

[bakerprune64]

I remember something about that as well with the Susan Smith trial, but I don't think it is even in the same ballpark as the AY tragedy. IMO, Susan Smith methodically killed her children and knew exactly what she was doing. I truly believe Andrea (in her own mind) killed her children to save their souls. Susan Smith killed her sons to get a man.
Isn't this the same defense being used in court on the mom who just recently dropped her three children off the pier into the San Fransisco bay? I'm by no means saying that these women are sane, what sane mother would do this to their own children! But on the other hand, the people in their lives who turn a blind eye or ignore the cries for help should also be tried, and the insane moms locked into a mental facility for the rest of their days (prison/state or otherwise.) A little off the subject here...my BIL and SIL are going through the beginning stages of divorce (he cheated and got a gal preggers, we just found out about 1 1/2 year old son!) anyways, when him and my SIL fight, he threatens to kill himself. How many times in the news have we heard of people who kill themsleves and take loved ones with them? I am terrified for her safety and that of my 4 yo nephew. Any suggestions?? I'll take whatever you've got:confused: .

[NewMom2003]

I think that susan smith was and does have mental issues.....It was testified that she was severly depressed and she was on medications and then stopped so i dont think she was like darlie routier where darlie still says she didnt kill her kids and i think darlie was just plain selfish...IMO

For 9 long days Susan Smith insisted that a black man had taken her car and kidnapped her children. IMO, she was as sane the day she let Michael and Alex drown as the day she went on national tv telling the world how much it hurt her that people were starting to doubt her story. She's not mentally ill. She just a cold murdering b*tch that I have absolutely no pity for.

[Marthatex]

She didn't call anyone for help with her mental state because she was a complete and utter hollowed out shell by that point,thanks largely to a non-supportive and isolating family structure, exemplified by her grinning knuckle-knob of a husband.
Insanity is far more subtle (and insidious) than simply acknowledging the difference between what SANE people know is right and wrong. That's why they need "guilty but insane" added to the jury choices. We've made immense leaps and bounds in understanding brain chemistry and mental illness over the last 30 years, but the judicial concept of insanity is mired in the late 19th century, where they expect the insane to be drooling, crapping themselves in public , and incapable of coming in from the poring rain (which sounds more like they were describing mental retardation than insanity, to me--since back then they made no distinction between the two conditions and would lock the mentally handicapped up with the insane).

That's right; you don't reason like even a half-way normal person when you're in major, rock-bottom depression or borderline psychosis.

Same reason people commit suicide, when with help and straightening out of those brain chemicals they could get over the hump and maybe lead a good life one day.

Too bad it's so complicated and the brain can't just take an aspirin, go to bed and then feel OK the next day.

[michelle]

For 9 long days Susan Smith insisted that a black man had taken her car and kidnapped her children. IMO, she was as sane the day she let Michael and Alex drown as the day she went on national tv telling the world how much it hurt her that people were starting to doubt her story. She's not mentally ill. She just a cold murdering b*tch that I have absolutely no pity for.
she did lie for 9 days about her children and then broke down and confessed, it was testified to that susan had mental illnesses, she had them since she was 6 years old and her father killed himself due to his own mental illness, i am not by any means defending her but i have studied this case inside and out and did papers for school on her and in my opinion, shes got mental issues....

[NewMom2003]

Isn't this the same defense being used in court on the mom who just recently dropped her three children off the pier into the San Fransisco bay? I'm by no means saying that these women are sane, what sane mother would do this to their own children! But on the other hand, the people in their lives who turn a blind eye or ignore the cries for help should also be tried, and the insane moms locked into a mental facility for the rest of their days (prison/state or otherwise.) A little off the subject here...my BIL and SIL are going through the beginning stages of divorce (he cheated and got a gal preggers, we just found out about 1 1/2 year old son!) anyways, when him and my SIL fight, he threatens to kill himself. How many times in the news have we heard of people who kill themsleves and take loved ones with them? I am terrified for her safety and that of my 4 yo nephew. Any suggestions?? I'll take whatever you've got:confused: .

Sorry bakerprune, I haven't read anything about the mother in SF. I heard a little about it, but haven't read up on it yet.

As far as your SIL and nephew goes, I would be scared for them too. You just never know what people will do, especially if one is threatening suicide. Can she get a restraining order on him or get his visitation rights taken away because of his mental state? Prayers for them both. I hope they both stay safe during this.

[bakerprune64]

Sorry bakerprune, I haven't read anything about the mother in SF. I heard a little about it, but haven't read up on it yet.

As far as your SIL and nephew goes, I would be scared for them too. You just never know what people will do, especially if one is threatening suicide. Can she get a restraining order on him or get his visitation rights taken away because of his mental state? Prayers for them both. I hope they both stay safe during this.
Thank You Newmom2003 for your kind thoughts. As far as a restraining order goes, they are all in the same house still. It looks as if she may be moving out in the next few days, and she thinks I'm over-reacting. I already called her mom and filled her in (MIL lives out of state) she agrees with me, but we don't know what we can do. Still looking for suggestions people, please help a fellow sleuther out. Thanks, J

[Jeana (DP)]

I think that susan smith was and does have mental issues.....It was testified that she was severly depressed and she was on medications and then stopped so i dont think she was like darlie routier where darlie still says she didnt kill her kids and i think darlie was just plain selfish...IMO


She was depressed because she couldn't get her boyfriend to fall for her, IMO.

[michelle]

She was depressed because she couldn't get her boyfriend to fall for her, IMO.
She was depressed at the age of six, many years before she met tom findley...

[Jeana (DP)]

She was depressed at the age of six, many years before she met tom findley...


Okay, okay, you win. She was depressed. I hope she rots in hell. :innocent:

[MrsMush99]

Let me guess, are we speaking of Susan Smith? I hate that woman with a passion. I don't think she has a mental illness. I think she as an awful monster. But that's just MO.

[michelle]

Okay, okay, you win. She was depressed. I hope she rots in hell. :innocent:
I actually laughed out loud at that, its nice to agree to disagree....:D

[Jeana (DP)]

I actually laughed out loud at that, its nice to agree to disagree....:D


It sure is. LOL Hey, didn't she recently put out a "Babes in Prison" add so she can get penpals of the opposite sex? I hear she likes rainbows and teddybears. (no foolin). :eek: (Maybe they cured her while she's been incarcerated). :truce:

[michelle]

It sure is. LOL Hey, didn't she recently put out a "Babes in Prison" add so she can get penpals of the opposite sex? I hear she likes rainbows and teddybears. (no foolin). :eek: (Maybe they cured her while she's been incarcerated). :truce:
yea she did and i thought then that something was seriously wrong, and it is rainbows and mickey mouse she likes, it really made me said to see that because i thought of how much my liitle boy likes mickey and i wondered if her kids did too...:(

[Jeana (DP)]

yea she did and i thought then that something was seriously wrong, and it is rainbows and mickey mouse she likes, it really made me said to see that because i thought of how much my liitle boy likes mickey and i wondered if her kids did too...:(


Wasn't there a picture of her youngest son in a Mickey t-shirt??? Maybe she's sicker than we thought and that's why she said it???? I'm not equipped to understand these things. :confused:

[michelle]

Wasn't there a picture of her youngest son in a Mickey t-shirt??? Maybe she's sicker than we thought and that's why she said it???? I'm not equipped to understand these things. :confused:
I am not either, yes there was a picture with that....I just cant understand how these moms do these things and can still live a life to where they want to meet people, i mean that is plain crazy....I am telling you i would DIE if i ever hurt my child that way or killed a child, they couldnt protect me from killing myself...I think in our normal minds we just cant fathom what these woman are going through that kill their kids...My cousin suffers from sever depression and i am worried because she is about to have twins and she has already had shock treatments done before this pregnancy she was in like a pyschosis, it reminded me of andrea yates, its really freaky....and she already has 2 little girls that she would let play outsied with nobody watching and they were like 5 and 2.....

[bugs]

I think Susan is evil where Andrea is sick. Susan's kids were in her way of her new love. In the letter he wrote to her to break up he said something to the effect that he didn't want them.

[Details]

For 9 long days Susan Smith insisted that a black man had taken her car and kidnapped her children. IMO, she was as sane the day she let Michael and Alex drown as the day she went on national tv telling the world how much it hurt her that people were starting to doubt her story. She's not mentally ill. She just a cold murdering b*tch that I have absolutely no pity for.Kinda funny Andrea Yates is thought by some to know right from wrong because she did call the police and didn't try to hide what she did; but doing the opposite to me clearly indicates a knowledge of right and wrong.

I think Andrea knew what she did was illegal, but thought it was the right thing to do (that nonsense she was indoctrinated with about kids going to hell if she wasn't a perfect mother).

Susan Smith was completely different - she may have been depressed, but her motivation was sane - trying to keep her boyfriend she did something she knew was wrong. It was obvious in the way she tried to lie and get away with it. Insanity - they don't have that self preservation, selfishness. The other case I don't know anything about.

[Jeana (DP)]

I am not either, yes there was a picture with that....I just cant understand how these moms do these things and can still live a life to where they want to meet people, i mean that is plain crazy....I am telling you i would DIE if i ever hurt my child that way or killed a child, they couldnt protect me from killing myself...I think in our normal minds we just cant fathom what these woman are going through that kill their kids...My cousin suffers from sever depression and i am worried because she is about to have twins and she has already had shock treatments done before this pregnancy she was in like a pyschosis, it reminded me of andrea yates, its really freaky....and she already has 2 little girls that she would let play outsied with nobody watching and they were like 5 and 2.....


So she'll have four young children? That would put a serious strain on someone already "unstable." Hopefully, her husband has some idea of what he's in for. I'll be praying for everything to work out for them.

[michelle]

I think that anyone who kills their babies are insane. IMO....

[Jeana (DP)]

I think that anyone who kills their babies are insane. IMO....


What if they deny it?

[michelle]

So she'll have four young children? That would put a serious strain on someone already "unstable." Hopefully, her husband has some idea of what he's in for. I'll be praying for everything to work out for them.
yes it will be 4 and we are concerned but of course everyone is hush hush about it....you know these things are usually a "family matter"....blah blah, thats unfortunatly how many of these things happens when people see it and dont intervene...

[Jeana (DP)]

yes it will be 4 and we are concerned but of course everyone is hush hush about it....you know these things are usually a "family matter"....blah blah, thats unfortunatly how many of these things happens when people see it and dont intervene...


Do you think she'll get her tubes tied now or will her husband wake up and put the brakes on the baby making?

[michelle]

Do you think she'll get her tubes tied now or will her husband wake up and put the brakes on the baby making?
who knows i hope she gets them tied i worry that she will have a relapse or something....

[michelle]

What if they deny it?
I dont know really, i just think murdering your child, something isnt right....Now diane downs i dont know about her shes a tough cookie to figure out. I think she was just evil and sinister......And as far as darlie routier goes, i cant figure out if shes guilty or not....Be easy on me thats just my opinion....:D

[PaperDoll]

From what I remember, she was of the mind that she was destroying them spiratually or something to that effect because she was a bad mother. She thought she had to kill them before their souls were evil. She didn't want to be stopped because that meant the kids going to hell. Now she is merely a danger to herself.
You are right Jeana.. I remember that as well.. however, she knew it was wrong one way or another... how can killing your children be right? I also believe her kids are in heaven with the Lord so she did accomplish what she set out to do... sad, however...

[Jeana (DP)]

I dont know really, i just think murdering your child, something isnt right....Now diane downs i dont know about her shes a tough cookie to figure out. I think she was just evil and sinister......And as far as darlie routier goes, i cant figure out if shes guilty or not....Be easy on me thats just my opinion....:D


You KNEW exactly where I was headed. :angel:

[Details]

I think that anyone who kills their babies are insane. IMO....Where is insanity - just believing there are harmless invisible blue pixies above everyone's head, killing another person (any other person), raping, pedophile, murdering others children, murdering your children....

Depends on how you define insanity I think.

But criminally insane - I think that's where you don't know right from wrong - you can think it is right to kill your children. I think that test Andrea passes and Suzanne Smith fails. A person who kills another person because they believe they are an evil space alien who will destroy the world is insane; a person who kills another person because they are annoying to them, and they think that's enough reason is not insane (criminally insane, anyway).

To me, insanity is where the world is not real, you can't see the real world. A narcissist sees the real world, just thinks that it all exists for them, so they kill because they don't think the other person is that important. A lunatic kills because they think these people are evil or attacking them or monsters or god tells them to or whatever.

[Jeana (DP)]

You are right Jeana.. I remember that as well.. however, she knew it was wrong one way or another... how can killing your children be right? I also believe her kids are in heaven with the Lord so she did accomplish what she set out to do... sad, however...


That's where the evil preacher comes into the picture. She was brainwashed to believe that she couldn't do what needed to be done for them on this earth, so she had to give them up to God. I guess if you honestly think that you're saving them from eternal damnation, killing them in order for them to go to Heaven would be the right thing to do. She really was getting it from all sides, IMO. You're right though. Its just so very sad.

[Details]

You are right Jeana.. I remember that as well.. however, she knew it was wrong one way or another... how can killing your children be right? I also believe her kids are in heaven with the Lord so she did accomplish what she set out to do... sad, however...I don't think she thought it was wrong in any way. She knew people would try to stop her, but that doesn't make it wrong (in her mind). She thought if the kids were killed they'd go to heaven, if they weren't killed, they'd go to hell. It's nuts, but it's what she was being taught, what she believed. From that religious perspective, she made a 'rational' decision, even a self sacrificing one (condemning herself to hell to save the kids from that fate). She was insane and in that insane world she was doing the right thing.

[MrsMush99]

Susan Smith was completely different - she may have been depressed, but her motivation was sane - trying to keep her boyfriend she did something she knew was wrong. It was obvious in the way she tried to lie and get away with it. Insanity - they don't have that self preservation, selfishness. The other case I don't know anything about.

I completely agree. She KNEW exactly what she was doing. And besides, I think depression is totally different than what Andrea has. She has some phycosis (sp?) IMO. Susan was depressed that a MAN didn't want her. She's selfish and a horrible person, IMO. If she didn't want her children she should have just given them to their daddy. I'm sure he would have been more then happy to have them. But again, she's too selfish to let anyone else raise her children. GRRRRR that woman just makes my blood boil, sorry.

[NewMom2003]

I think that anyone who kills their babies are insane. IMO....

It's an insane and atrocious act for sure, but I don't think all these woman that kill their children are truly "insane". They do it for all kinds of reasons. Money, men, selfishness ... you name it. They are not all insane as I believe AY to be. I have my doubts about that Tyler woman that was found not guilty by reason of insanity this week in the stoning deaths of her sons. I don't really know what to think of her.

[bugs]

Some people who murder their kids are just down right mean - bottomline!

[michelle]

I love websleuths its nice to be able to disagree and not fight.......I on the other habd think susan smith was mentally ill, she has a long history of sexual abuse against her her daddy killed himself he was mental and so on....but any way i dont know too much about andrea yates, but was she ill as a child??

[michelle]

It's an insane and atrocious act for sure, but I don't think all these woman that kill their children are truly "insane". They do it for all kinds of reasons. Money, men, selfishness ... you name it. They are not all insane as I believe AY to be. I have my doubts about that Tyler woman that was found not guilty by reason of insanity this week in the stoning deaths of her sons. I don't really know what to think of her.

I really dont know much about that either, but dang why did she have to stone them....man, what a horrific way to go those poor children, i mean i know drowning or any other way isnt horrific but that is crazy!!

[Details]

Andrea Yates had the postpartum depression, made worse by her husband's refusal to follow doctors orders, and some medicine failings (she was taken abruptly off of meds she should have been gradually weaned off). It's quite a case - I'm sure there's a good link around here somewhere on it. It's pretty close to something where I'd just say that Russell Yates killed those kids.

[michelle]

she looks crazy, i mean i have seen pics of her and it gives me the creeps....:eek:

[Jeana (DP)]

Andrea Yates had a full blown post-partum psychosis from two kids back. She was not feeding herself, not bathing herself and barely talking - and was pulling her own hair out. There's NO WAY in hell she should have been out of a hospital - FORGET about anywhere near five kids for ANY period of time. Her husband, her family, his mother and her doctors can all share the blame for this tragedy.

[bugs]

I love websleuths its nice to be able to disagree and not fight.......I on the other habd think susan smith was mentally ill, she has a long history of sexual abuse against her her daddy killed himself he was mental and so on....but any way i dont know too much about andrea yates, but was she ill as a child??


Hope this helps.

Andrea Yates was born Andrea Kennedy on July 2, 1964 into a middle class family in Houston, the youngest of five children. She had developed a very close relationship with her father, a high school teacher, and she liked to help other people. She graduated from high school as class valedictorian and had been captain of the swim team. She had been shy with boys but was goal-oriented like the rest of her family, and had good friends. She earned a nursing degree from the University of Texas Health Science Center and found work as a registered nurse. She quit after she married and had her first child.

Timothy Roche delved deep into her history for Time and discovered a rather disturbing picture of a troubled family, including a long history of mental illness for Yates. But there was more, emphasized in a documentary for Court TV's Mugshots. The form mental illness takes often has an outside influence, and this one was insidious.

Andrea and Rusty had met when they were both 25. Rusty had seen her swimming in a pool of his apartment complex and had decided he was interested in her. She introduced herself to him and they dated for three years. In 1993, they were married and a year later had Noah. They planned on having as many children as came along, whatever God wanted for them, and told friends they expected six.

Yet soon after Noah was born, Andrea began to have violent visions: she saw someone being stabbed. She thought she heard Satan speak to her. However, she and her husband had idealistic, Bible-inspired notions about family and motherhood, so she kept her tormenting secrets to herself. She didn't realize how much mental illness there was in her own family, from depression to bipolar disorder—which can contribute to postpartum psychosis. In her initial stages, she remained undiagnosed and untreated. She kept her secrets from everyone.

[NewMom2003]

I really dont know much about that either, but dang why did she have to stone them....man, what a horrific way to go those poor children, i mean i know drowning or any other way isnt horrific but that is crazy!!

I'm glad that we agree to disagree about Susan Smith without fighting. It's just sometimes the mention of her name makes my blood boil. :furious:

I shouldn't have made my comment above about the Tyler woman that stoned her children. I don't know enough about that case to form a rational opinion, just an emotional one. Prayers for those boys. :angel: :angel:. I believe one of them survived but is blind from it. God Bless them. Absolutely horrific.

[michelle]

I'm glad that we agree to disagree about Susan Smith without fighting. It's just sometimes the mention of her name makes my blood boil. :furious:

I shouldn't have made my comment above about the Tyler woman that stoned her children. I don't know enough about that case to form a rational opinion, just an emotional one. Prayers for those boys. :angel: :angel:. I believe one of them survived but is blind from it. God Bless them. Absolutely horrific.
i know i dont know much about andrea yates, but i didnt know she pulled out her own hair, thats sick...

[PaperDoll]

I don't think she thought it was wrong in any way. She knew people would try to stop her, but that doesn't make it wrong (in her mind). She thought if the kids were killed they'd go to heaven, if they weren't killed, they'd go to hell. It's nuts, but it's what she was being taught, what she believed. From that religious perspective, she made a 'rational' decision, even a self sacrificing one (condemning herself to hell to save the kids from that fate). She was insane and in that insane world she was doing the right thing.
I totally understand what you are saying and I agree ... There are some very mentally ill people out there that need help and I do believe Andrea is one of them..

[NewMom2003]

Andrea Yates had a full blown post-partum psychosis from two kids back. She was not feeding herself, not bathing herself and barely talking - and was pulling her own hair out. There's NO WAY in hell she should have been out of a hospital - FORGET about anywhere near five kids for ANY period of time. Her husband, her family, his mother and her doctors can all share the blame for this tragedy.


Yes, and that moron Rusty knew all this and continued to impregnate her and put her in impossible stressful situations. :furious:

I wish I would run into Rusty on the street one day in Houston. I think I'd spit in his eye.

[bugs]

i know i dont know much about andrea yates, but i didnt know she pulled out her own hair, thats sick...


Her Mother-in-law said she would twist her hair around her finger like she was in deep thought and eventually bald spots started showing.

[MrsMush99]

I wish I would run into Rusty on the street one day in Houston. I think I'd spit in his eye.

You know, I'm a little annoyed at Rusty. He swore he would never divorce her, and then what does he go and do? Divorce her.:razz: I hope he at least attends the next trial to show his support of her.

[NewMom2003]

i know i dont know much about andrea yates, but i didnt know she pulled out her own hair, thats sick...

This woman is truly ill Michelle. She needs help, not a prison term. God Bless the Yates children. :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel:

Now Rusty Yates on the other hand .... :loser:

[michelle]

Yes, and that moron Rusty knew all this and continued to impregnate her and put her in impossible stressful situations. :furious:

I wish I would run into Rusty on the street one day in Houston. I think I'd spit in his eye.
Why didnt anybody try to intervene with her if they all knew she was sick?
and i heard that her kids were afraid of her, thats so sad.....

Just like susan smith, she was being molested by her stepdad from age 16 on and when her mom was told they didnt do anything.....thats just sick...

[Jeana (DP)]

When a family member in charge of young children starts this type of behavior, that's when other family members need to show up in court to get custody of the kids away from them. ANYONE can petition the court for custody. If Andrea's doctors were failing her, a petition in family court to have her children removed could have sparked a judge to order mental testing that the state could pay for, if necessary. There are other ways around these issues than just standing back and hoping for the best. Anytime helpless children are involved, we need to, as a society, worry MOREE about those childrens' rights than the parents' rights. After all, parents who love their children are willing to give up EVERYTHING for them - including some civil rights, right? LOL OFF MY SOAPBOX NOW. :doh:

[NewMom2003]

You know, I'm a little annoyed at Rusty. He swore he would never divorce her, and then what does he go and do? Divorce her.:razz: I hope he at least attends the next trial to show his support of her.

I doubt he will. He's probably too busy out looking for a new wife. He infuriates me.

[michelle]

Did andrea have a mother around or any siblings? Or was it just rustys family...

[Details]

Did andrea have a mother around or any siblings? Or was it just rustys family...IIRC, Rusty cut her off from her other family or friends. Typical control behavior. She was isolated, as a 'good wife' is supposed to be. :banghead:

[bugs]

IIRC, Rusty cut her off from her other family or friends. Typical control behavior. She was isolated, as a 'good wife' is supposed to be. :banghead:


I didn't know that - you know that makes me dislike him even more!!! :mad:

[Jeana (DP)]

IIRC, Rusty cut her off from her other family or friends. Typical control behavior. She was isolated, as a 'good wife' is supposed to be. :banghead:


Rusty would have burried us in the backyard a long time ago, huh? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: My momma taught me not to take chit off no one. :innocent: :innocent: :innocent:

[michelle]

I am not liking rusty.....

[PaperDoll]

I think Rusty needs to be held accountable for this as well.. Afterall, he was the so called "man of the house" :loser: . He knew what was going on with her.. From what I read he even walked in on her while she was trying to split her wrists (if I read that correctly)... How can you not know anything is going on.. he must have seen the changes in her appearance as well.. :banghead: He was also the one who liked this so called preacher and should have stepped in when he heard about some of his misleading teachings.. Where was his head at? He works for an space engineering company and he doesn't have the smarts to know when a preacher is misleading his flock?

[shopper]

I am not liking rusty.....

I saw him on LKL about a year or so ago, at the same time as David Smith (Susan Smith's ex) and the difference between those two men was astounding. Both lost their children by drowing by their wives. You could see on DS's face that it is still a struggle for him, that he's grieving and angry still. But Rusty was a whole other story.

Rusty is a moron IMO, he still doesn't totally get it, if at all.

[bugs]

I think Rusty needs to be held accountable for this as well.. Afterall, he was the so called "man of the house" :loser: . He knew what was going on with her.. From what I read he even walked in on her while she was trying to split her wrists (if I read that correctly)... How can you not know anything is going on.. he must have seen the changes in her appearance as well.. :banghead: He was also the one who liked this so called preacher and should have stepped in when he heard about some of his misleading teachings.. Where was his head at? He works for an space engineering company and he doesn't have the smarts to know when a preacher is misleading his flock?


I can almost bet he made fun of her illness. Probably called her names. He more than likely made her more insane by denying her true feelings she was trying to get across to him.

[concernedperson]

I think Rusty needs to be held accountable for this as well.. Afterall, he was the so called "man of the house" :loser: . He knew what was going on with her.. From what I read he even walked in on her while she was trying to split her wrists (if I read that correctly)... How can you not know anything is going on.. he must have seen the changes in her appearance as well.. :banghead: He was also the one who liked this so called preacher and should have stepped in when he heard about some of his misleading teachings.. Where was his head at? He works for an space engineering company and he doesn't have the smarts to know when a preacher is misleading his flock?

I think this is the core matter,PaperDoll, the denial aspect. And in Rusty's case I would say neglect more than denial. What was his motive? Control aspects of his surroundings? Whoever posted about him seeming gleeful, I agree.Also believe he was looking for an absence of responsibility. JMO.

[michelle]

i seen that LKL and i remember david smith just crying and rusty never seemed to show emotion...

[Amraann]

THere ar plenty who are mentally ill.

I agree Susan Smith was mentally ill.... However, I also think she was selfish sand her motive was that coupled with mental illness.
Andrea??? WHOAH a new ball game.
Maybe legally in her insanity she did in fact know mankinds right from wrong.
But she believed a higher power would influence her childrens lives. In the reahlm of that in her mind she was not right.

Insanity is not a black and white issue. Sadly Andrea was well into Gray.
Based on her history she is insane. Never fit to live in society, but does that mean we throw her in prison? (subject her to the cruelty of real criminals who would harm those mentally ill and vunerable??)
I would hope not. I think the definition of sane legally should be revised.
Andrea was not a drug addict, she had no financial gain, her husband did not do anything reported to cause a jealous rage..
Her intention I truly believe was somehow in her own head to save her children. Now if the rest of us do not qualify that as insane then what is??

[MrsMush99]

I agree with you Ams. Well said.

[PaperDoll]

I can almost bet he made fun of her illness. Probably called her names. He more than likely made her more insane by denying her true feelings she was trying to get across to him.
Yep, somehow I bet he had a way of turning things around to make himself look like the good guy... I do believe he needs to be held accountable..

I also think he knew something wasn't right with her when he left for work that day and yet he left.. I also believe she had said that she had urges to kill her kids before.. why didn't anyone listen to this.. This also tells me that she was crying out for help because she didn't want to kill her kids...I think she knew it was wrong to do...

[concernedperson]

Of all the high profile crimes I believe Andrea Yates was truly insane...I think she went in and out of reality. Small bits here and there but there are people who knew she couldn't even bathe herself and left her with children? This is criminal on the part of those with knowledge. I am not exonerating Andrea for what she did but saying she shouldn't have had the responsibility in the first place.Sometimes the sideline people have a motive.

[MrsMush99]

Rusty on Abrams now!

[Details]

Rusty probably used the usual escape: "Just believe in God enough and the bad feelings will go away - if you are having problems it's your fault for being a sinner."

[Gozgals]

Yep, somehow I bet he had a way of turning things around to make himself look like the good guy... I do believe he needs to be held accountable..

I also think he knew something wasn't right with her when he left for work that day and yet he left.. I also believe she had said that she had urges to kill her kids before.. why didn't anyone listen to this.. This also tells me that she was crying out for help because she didn't want to kill her kids...I think she knew it was wrong to do...
I'm glad that she was granted a new trial. It will not serve much purpose except to bring to light the plight of those that are really mentally ill.

Somehow it appears Rusty has wasted no TIME making the rounds already doing the TALK show circuit. I find him to be culpable in this whole matter as many do.

As Jeana pointed out earlier, Andrea will spend her life in a mental facility. Where that will be probably won't afford her much care in the way of getting much better with her mental illness. The blame lies with the Drs., the husband, and all those that knew of her vulnerabilities yet stood by and let this tragedy occur.

The sadness is the loss of her children. Maybe this whole matter could have been avoided if the interest of the children was taken into account and was the top priority -- and also RUSTY did not continue to choose to keep reproducing.

This is just a situation that may keep occurring, not to this extent if the mentally ill are not treated sooner.

[michelle]

I missed rusty on abrams what did he say??

[concernedperson]

I won't post a lot more on this subject but I don't want to know what Rusty said. Rusty is about Rusty and he is part and parcel to this horrendous happening. I see his brain as overloaded with self-importence and magical thinking and none of his opinions are valued. At least by me. JMO.

[BillyGoatGruff]

I think Susan is evil where Andrea is sick. Susan's kids were in her way of her new love. In the letter he wrote to her to break up he said something to the effect that he didn't want them.
I think Susan Smith's understanding of what it means to be a parent was warped from a early age, what with her dad's suicide and her stepfather screwing her up until days before her arrest. Yetch.

[BillyGoatGruff]

I really dont know much about that either, but dang why did she have to stone them....man, what a horrific way to go those poor children, i mean i know drowning or any other way isnt horrific but that is crazy!!
Stoning is from the bible. It was how the earliest martyrs died.

[BillyGoatGruff]

Andrea Yates had a full blown post-partum psychosis from two kids back. She was not feeding herself, not bathing herself and barely talking - and was pulling her own hair out. There's NO WAY in hell she should have been out of a hospital - FORGET about anywhere near five kids for ANY period of time. Her husband, her family, his mother and her doctors can all share the blame for this tragedy.
And somehow Rusty was turned on enough to make more babies with this woman. Go figure.

[MrsMush99]

I missed rusty on abrams what did he say??

He said a bunch of stuff, but I didn't catch it all cause I was cleaning up my kitchen. However I did catch some stuff. One thing he said was that he doesn't know if he'll be allowed to attend the trial, cause he wasn't allowed the last one because he was a witness. He also said that he sees Andrea once a month and she's a totally different person. He also stated that he hopes it doesn't go to trial.

[shopper]

Rusty should IMO keep his dumb mouth shut, especially since a good chunk of the blame is on him. He never contributes anything worthwhile and only makes himself look bad every time. He divorced her and has moved on, he needs to butt out of her case regardless of any kind of "justice" or treatment for her. He had his chance to show concern when it counted and now it's a case of too little too late.



JMO

[kk's mom]

I don't know. I don't think Rusty Yates helped matters any by continuing to get his wife pregnant when he knew she was unstable after what, the 3rd? Now, I might catch some slack here and I'm only just voicing my opinion so keep that in mind. Those who defend Andrea Yates say that she is most likely not guilty of the murders of her children due to mental illness. And I guess that might be right. But this guy stood by this woman from day one of this tragedy. He testified in her defense and argued against the public's perception that this woman was a witch and a monster. I think he deseves a little better than to be blamed for the murders and to be vilified as a cruel, domineering husband. He might have his quirks but keep in mind, he loved his wife and he loved his kids. He tried to do what he could in a situation that you nor I could even imagine being in. Whether mental or not mental, it's Andrea Yates, not Rusty Yates, who killed their five children. I believe she belongs in jail and should never have the chance to see daylight again. I believe that because when I look at the pictures of the innocent lives she took, her own children, it turns my stomach and makes me cry just wondering what they went through at the hands of their own mother.

[LinasK]

I don't know. I don't think Rusty Yates helped matters any by continuing to get his wife pregnant when he knew she was unstable after what, the 3rd? Now, I might catch some slack here and I'm only just voicing my opinion so keep that in mind. Those who defend Andrea Yates say that she is most likely not guilty of the murders of her children due to mental illness. And I guess that might be right.
I don't believe Rusty stood by her at all. It goes beyond continuing to impregnate a woman known to have severe post-partum depression. He prematurely took her out of a mental hospital, didn't ensure that she kept on her meds. Indoctrinated her with that preacher's teaching about what a lousy mother she was. Made her home-school 5 small children (and mostly boys at that!). Didn't help out with dish-washing, and left a woman who couldn't care for herself because of her depression alone for even a minute with children she had expressed thoughts of killing. I too blame Rusty's part, her psychiatrist that d/c'ed her meds and discharged her, and the preacher for their parts in the murders. I think they too are Guilty to a lesser degree of these deaths. And why didn't Rusty's mother arrive as soon as he had to leave for work or stay overnight???:banghead:

[blueclouds]

I believe that is what they are asking for, or at least it was about 6 months ago. See..she is on a cycle. When they get her meds working, she realizes what she did...then goes off the deep end again. She will never recover. She is not an evil person, just a very VERY ill one. God bless her soul. Many people in her life contributed to this tragedy. Her husband for not listening to the doctor about having more children. Her shrink for taking her off some of the meds suddenly instead of weaning her off like you should do. The loser "cult" guy that was filling her sick head with bunk and caused her tremendous guilt. Those poor sweet babies. I know they a beautiful angels now. No, she needs not ever to be walking the streets free again. However, she needs attention that I don't believe she will get in a prison situation. :(

Wish I had "two thumbs up" smiley... :clap: well said.

[concernedperson]

I don't believe Rusty stood by her at all. It goes beyond continuing to impregnant a woman known to have severe post-partum depression. He prematurely took her out of a mental hospital, didn't ensure that she kept on her meds. Indoctrinated her with that preacher's teaching about what a lousy mother she was. Made her home-school 5 small children (and mostly boys at that!). Didn't help out with dish-washing, and left a woman who couldn't care for herself because of her depression alone for even a minute with children she had expressed thoughts of killing. I too blame Rusty's part, her psychiatrist that d/c'ed her meds and discharged her, and the preacher for their parts in the murders. I think they too are Guilty to a lesser degree of these deaths. And why didn't Rusty's mother arrive as soon as he had to leave for work or stay overnight???:banghead:
Great questions! There are other culpable people....have they been charged? No, they haven't. I am usually not in defense of a mental illness killing but this is an exception to the rule. These people knew....dammit they knew. Their dancing around issues is disgusting.

[blueclouds]

Rusty should IMO keep his dumb mouth shut, especially since a good chunk of the blame is on him. He never contributes anything worthwhile and only makes himself look bad every time. He divorced her and has moved on, he needs to butt out of her case regardless of any kind of "justice" or treatment for her. He had his chance to show concern when it counted and now it's a case of too little too late.



JMO
I still don't get how they didn't charge him with something. HE KNEW -------------HE KNEW!!!!!!!!!! not to get her pregnant again but yet.... poor Rusty WANTED more children.... what a piece of scum. I hope he lives his own hell. AND HOW DARE HE EVER EVER WANT MARRIAGE AND MORE CHILDREN. God I hope the state watches him if he ever has children again. :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

[shopper]

I don't know. I don't think Rusty Yates helped matters any by continuing to get his wife pregnant when he knew she was unstable after what, the 3rd? Now, I might catch some slack here and I'm only just voicing my opinion so keep that in mind. Those who defend Andrea Yates say that she is most likely not guilty of the murders of her children due to mental illness. And I guess that might be right. But this guy stood by this woman from day one of this tragedy. He testified in her defense and argued against the public's perception that this woman was a witch and a monster. I think he deseves a little better than to be blamed for the murders and to be vilified as a cruel, domineering husband. He might have his quirks but keep in mind, he loved his wife and he loved his kids. He tried to do what he could in a situation that you nor I could even imagine being in. Whether mental or not mental, it's Andrea Yates, not Rusty Yates, who killed their five children. I believe she belongs in jail and should never have the chance to see daylight again. I believe that because when I look at the pictures of the innocent lives she took, her own children, it turns my stomach and makes me cry just wondering what they went through at the hands of their own mother.

No bashing from me. Yes, Andrea is the one who took each of them (chased one) into the bathroom and held their heads underwater while they struggled to get air. She owns that. But she was/is very mentally ill, being mentally ill is not her fault, she didn't have the capacity to get her own self the kind of help she needed. So, it was up to her husband to do it as the sane, responsible adult and protector of his children.

IMO Rusty is ignorant and it's no more his fault than it is Andrea's that she's extremely mentally ill. But there is no excuse for ignorance, when he had professionals telling him what was best for his wife, the wife he didn't know what to do with.

It's complicated and I know it's not so black and white. Also, it is my understanding that their health insurance wouldn't pay for a lot of her treatment so there is more than enough blame to go around.

[concernedperson]

You can file with any State for an involuntary commitment order if you believe that someone is a danger to themselves or someone else. They will normally abide that at least until evaluation is presented. It takes 30 days before the person is let go. Almost any responsible person would do this and then wonder what went wrong with the system. Rusty didn't do this.

[shopper]

I still don't get how they didn't charge him with something. HE KNEW -------------HE KNEW!!!!!!!!!! not to get her pregnant again but yet.... poor Rusty WANTED more children.... what a piece of scum. I hope he lives his own hell. AND HOW DARE HE EVER EVER WANT MARRIAGE AND MORE CHILDREN. God I hope the state watches him if he ever has child