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Dr. Doogie
11-15-2005, 07:44 PM
I am starting a new thread concerning Anna Christian Waters who disappeared from her front yard January 16, 1973 in Half Moon Bay, San Mateo County, CA.

Here is her NCMEC missing poster: http://www.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/PubCaseSearchServlet?act=viewPoster&caseNum=601935&orgPrefix=NCMC&searchLang=en_US

I have been researching this case for the last nine months with the help of Anna's family and a private investigator who has been involved since the late 1970's. I will be posting as much information as we have been able to find that we feel would be useful.

It would be appreciated if the Websleuthing Community could put your collective brain-power toward solving this case.

shadowangel
11-16-2005, 08:37 AM
You brought up some excellent points about this case in the Sharon Marshall threads. Maybe you could post them here?

meggilyweggily
11-16-2005, 09:25 AM
I wish I knew more about Anna's disappearance. There's so little info available and I could not find any articles on her.

Dr. Doogie
11-16-2005, 01:09 PM
I will be posting a series of topics that I have uncovered relating to Anna's disappearance very soon, hopefully starting today. Due to computer problems on my part, I can only stay connected to the internet for short periods of time before my computer crashes, so I am having to compose my posts offline and then cut-and-pasting them here.


I have numerous pictures of Anna and other players in this mystery that I will be posting here (once I recieve permission from Anna's mother). The mother has provided me with her diary of the search for Anna, plus I will also post what I and the private investigator have discovered.

Stay tuned for lots of info.

*02
11-16-2005, 01:37 PM
Very interested to hear what's new on Anna, Dr Doogie- hope you get the computer problems fixed.

Dr. Doogie
11-16-2005, 01:49 PM
Anna's family lived in a rural part of coastal San Mateo County near Half Moon Bay, CA. On the day of her disappearance, Anna arrived home via her schoolbus at about 1PM on January 16, 1973. She changed her clothes and went out into the yard to play. Both her mother and step-father were home and inside the house at the time.

At 2:20, her mother noticed that she did not hear Anna playing anymore. A quick search of the immediate propertywas done, but Anna was not there. The San Mateo County Sheriffs were called at 3PM and arrived at 3:15PM. Immediately upon arrival, the sheriffs deputy sounded his siren in an attempt to attract Anna's attention in case she had wandered off.

The mother felt that the most immediate danger to Anna was a creek that ran through thier property that was at flood stage on that day. All inital efforts were directed toward searching the creek and its banks. All subsequent searches of the creek have not turned up any evidence that Anna fell into the creek - this includes scuba searches and several foot-by-foot searches of the entire length of the creek from the point of Anna's disappearance to the mouth of the creek where it discharges into the Pacific Ocean. Anna's body would have washed up on the banks or been trapped in underbrush or the several dams that existed between the property and the ocean.

It was not until the searching of the creek was completed that the focus fell on a possible abduction. Unfortunately, that was several days after her disappearance.

smile22
11-16-2005, 01:57 PM
your link in the last posting is not working its the last pic or something, anways id be really intrested in helping solve this case. some other cases from the 70s that im also researching that could be linked to annas case the only thing that wouldnt link them is the distance these cases happend in the new england east coast area. janice pockett age 7, 1973 riding her bike- tolland ct lisa white 13 years old comming home from a friends 197? Rockville ct, andy pugliese age 10 i belive lawrence mass. 197? on his way home from the pool.

Dr. Doogie
11-16-2005, 02:08 PM
The San Mateo County Sheriffs Department lists the disappearance of Anna as a "probable stanger abduction", meaning that she would have been taken by someone other than a family member.

A friend of the family who was on his way to visit passed on the road a white panel van coming away from the direction of the house containing "a young man and an old man" five minutes before Anna was noticed to be missing. They were not residents of the immediate area.

Purissima Creek Road is not a major thoroughfare - a person would be on this road only if they had a reason to. It is unlikely that a predator looking to kidnap a child would travel this road. It would make much more sense to search for prey in a park or a school area where one would know that children would most likely be.

Because of this fact, I believe that Anna was not taken by a stranger. No, somebody wanted her specifically and knew where to find her. But who? And why?

Dr. Doogie
11-16-2005, 02:17 PM
your link in the last posting is not working its the last pic or something, anways id be really intrested in helping solve this case. some other cases from the 70s that im also researching that could be linked to annas case the only thing that wouldnt link them is the distance these cases happend in the new england east coast area. janice pockett age 7, 1973 riding her bike- tolland ct lisa white 13 years old comming home from a friends 197? Rockville ct, andy pugliese age 10 i belive lawrence mass. 197? on his way home from the pool.Smille22:

The name of the photo is "Last Photo", meaning this was last picture taken before her disappearance (within two weeks). It seems to be working when I click on the link. If you continue to have trouble with it, let me know and I can email it directly to you.

It is stunning the number of missing children from the 1970's and 1980's - before we had Amber Alerts, the NCMEC, Megan's Law, etc. There were an alarming string of child abductions in Northern California alone. However, I do not believe that Anna was taken by a stranger, as coming posts will demonstrate.

mere
11-16-2005, 02:37 PM
This is what I get when I click the link.

you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:


Your user account may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system?
If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting activation.

*02
11-16-2005, 02:39 PM
Smille22:

The name of the photo is "Last Photo", meaning this was last picture taken before her disappearance (within two weeks). It seems to be working when I click on the link. If you continue to have trouble with it, let me know and I can email it directly to you.

It is stunning the number of missing children from the 1970's and 1980's - before we had Amber Alerts, the NCMEC, Megan's Law, etc. There were an alarming string of child abductions in Northern California alone. However, I do not believe that Anna was taken by a stranger, as coming posts will demonstrate.
I am having the same trouble, it says we don't have permission to access the file. I think you might have to copy and paste or upload to a picture sharing site and insert for it to work properly.

shadowangel
11-16-2005, 03:15 PM
It is stunning the number of missing children from the 1970's and 1980's - before we had Amber Alerts, the NCMEC, Megan's Law, etc. There were an alarming string of child abductions in Northern California alone. However, I do not believe that Anna was taken by a stranger, as coming posts will demonstrate.
In just a very quick cross-reference in my files, I found these around the time of Anna's disappearance on the west coast-
June '71-Debra Pscholka from Corona, CA (12 years old)
Jan '73-Anna Waters
Jan '74-Donna Packenham from Vallejo, CA (13 years old)
March '74-Heidi Peterson from Seattle WA ( 4 years old-remains found 11 months later in a garbage can near her home)
April '74-Cindy Sumpter from San Jose CA (5 years old)
June '74-Michelle Booher from Long Beach, CA (4 years old, later recovered from William Clifton Knapp living in a boarding house under false ID)
Oct '74-Patricia Kompas from Woodland Hills, CA (10 years old)
March '77-Brandi Summers and her youger sister Tiffany Wise from San Bernandino, CA (4 years old-mother had been killed in the home, a baby was left alive in the home)

Distances vary, but just this short list seems like a lot for the time frame...

Marilynilpa
11-16-2005, 03:23 PM
In just a very quick cross-reference in my files, I found these around the time of Anna's disappearance on the west coast-
June '71-Debra Pscholka from Corona, CA (12 years old)
Jan '73-Anna Waters
Jan '74-Donna Packenham from Vallejo, CA (13 years old)
March '74-Heidi Peterson from Seattle WA ( 4 years old-remains found 11 months later in a garbage can near her home)
April '74-Cindy Sumpter from San Jose CA (5 years old)
June '74-Michelle Booher from Long Beach, CA (4 years old, later recovered from William Clifton Knapp living in a boarding house under false ID)
Oct '74-Patricia Kompas from Woodland Hills, CA (10 years old)
March '77-Brandi Summers and her youger sister Tiffany Wise from San Bernandino, CA (4 years old-mother had been killed in the home, a baby was left alive in the home)

Distances vary, but just this short list seems like a lot for the time frame...
Oh my god, reading that list just gave me the chills. So many little girls missing, and you say that is just a short list! How awful.

Dr. Doogie
11-16-2005, 03:42 PM
Thank you for the short list of missing children from the West Coast during this time period. I have always felt that IF this were a stranger abduction, that it would be tied to the Sumpter case out of San Jose. Both girls were five years old, both were taken from their own yards, the disappearances were only 15 months apart and only 30-40 miles away from each other.

One frightening fact that came out during the family's search for Anna: Richard Allen Davis (murderer of Polly Klaas) lived in La Honda in 1973 (less than ten miles away from where Anna disappeared). However, an investigation of the whereabouts of Davis showed that he was in the local jail on the day that Anna disappeared.

There have been several serial pedophile/predators that have been captured in the Bay Area in the 1970's thru the 1990's, but none have ever been even loosely tied back to Anna's case.

PS I am working on the file issues. I may have to post them on a third party site with URL links to them for you all to view them. I will let you know soon.

Marilynilpa
11-16-2005, 03:48 PM
Thank you for the short list of missing children from the West Coast during this time period. I have always felt that IF this were a stranger abduction, that it would be tied to the Sumpter case out of San Jose. Both girls were five years old, both were taken from their own yards, the disappearances were only 15 months apart and only 30-40 miles away from each other.

One frightening fact that came out during the family's search for Anna: Richard Allen Davis (murderer of Polly Klaas) lived in La Honda in 1973 (less than ten miles away from where Anna disappeared). However, an investigation of the whereabouts of Davis showed that he was in the local jail on the day that Anna disappeared.

There have been several serial pedophile/predators that have been captured in the Bay Area in the 1970's thru the 1990's, but none have ever been even loosely tied back to Anna's case.

PS I am working on the file issues. I may have to post them on a third party site with URL links to them for you all to view them. I will let you know soon.
You stated that you don't think this was a stranger abduction because the road is not a major thoroughfare. Is this an area where everyone knows each other, recognizes the cars that belong in the area, etc.?

Dr. Doogie
11-16-2005, 04:07 PM
I am starting to post the photos on a Yahoo Pic site that will allow anyone to access. I will include the links as I post future pics, but here are the previous pictures.

The last photo of Anna before here disappearance: http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/drdoogief/detail?.dir=aac9&.dnm=4481.jpg

A map of the road where she disappeared:
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/drdoogief/detail?.dir=aac9&.dnm=f237.jpg&.src=ph

docwho3
11-16-2005, 04:14 PM
I am starting to post the photos on a Yahoo Pic site that will allow anyone to access. I will include the links as I post future pics, but here are the previous pictures.

The last photo of Anna before here disappearance: http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/drdoogief/detail?.dir=aac9&.dnm=4481.jpg

A map of the road where she disappeared:
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/drdoogief/detail?.dir=aac9&.dnm=f237.jpg&.src=ph
Very interesting.

Dr. Doogie
11-16-2005, 04:14 PM
You stated that you don't think this was a stranger abduction because the road is not a major thoroughfare. Is this an area where everyone knows each other, recognizes the cars that belong in the area, etc.?
Marilynilpa:

The mother stated that approximately 200 cars a day would travel this road. Because of the fact that there are much quicker and shorter routes between the two end-points of the road, almost everyone who would travel it either lived on the road or had some business to conduct somewhere along the way. Yes, most people on the road would have known each other (at least by sight, if not by name), so strangers would have been noticed. That is why the two men in the white panel truck stood out to the neighbor.

One quick note: the information about the two men in the panel truck did not come to light until several days after Anna's disappearance - remember that this was first investigated as a possible drowning. It was not until that posssibility had been discounted that a kidnapping investigation was started.

Marilynilpa
11-16-2005, 04:28 PM
Marilynilpa:

The mother stated that approximately 200 cars a day would travel this road. Because of the fact that there are much quicker and shorter routes between the two end-points of the road, almost everyone who would travel it either lived on the road or had some business to conduct somewhere along the way. Yes, most people on the road would have known each other (at least by sight, if not by name), so strangers would have been noticed. That is why the two men in the white panel truck stood out to the neighbor.

One quick note: the information about the two men in the panel truck did not come to light until several days after Anna's disappearance - remember that this was first investigated as a possible drowning. It was not until that posssibility had been discounted that a kidnapping investigation was started.
So anyone trying to get from Point A to Point B would have much quicker ways of getting there than taking this particular road. In that case, it sounds like Anna was taken by someone who either lived in the area, or frequently had business in that area.

I feel so bad for her family - at first they go through the nightmare of thinking their little girl had gotten swept away in a flood-level creek, then have to deal with the terrible reality that their daughter had been abducted. What a horrible situation.

Dr. Doogie
11-16-2005, 05:12 PM
Anna's birth father was named George Henry Waters. He married Michaele B. in 1964 in New York City while attending Columbia Medical School. The family moved to San Francisco for him to complete his residency where Anna was born September 25, 1967.



Around the time of Anna's birth, George Waters met an older man by the name of George Brody (probably an alias). Brody was a man in his sixties at that time who immediately started to manipulate Waters and his family into his small cult of personality. Marital strains caused by Brody's manipulation and increasingly paranoid behavior by Waters led to Anna's parents divorcing shortly after her birth.



Although Waters came from a well-to-do family and was a physician working at three different facilities, he moved into a seedy hotel in the Tenderloin district of San Francisco with Brody as his roommate. Brody, who appears to have never worked a day in his life, was completely supported financially by Waters. Waters appears to have not made any moves or decisions with the full approval of Brody. (It should be clarified that even though these were two adult men living in very close arrangements, there has never been any evidence or hint that their relationship was sexual. It appeared to be more a twisted version of guru and disciple.)



Brody showed an disturbing level of interest in Anna. He believed that Anna was the reincarnation of a woman that Brody had lived with for several decades (this despite the fact that Anna was born before the woman in question had died). At Brody's and Water's insistence, the mother agreed to let Anna's name be legally changed, adding the nonsense word "Eifee" as middle name. This was demanded by Brody so that Anna's name and his name would "numerologically" add up to the same number.


In the few years after Anna's birth, George's behavior became more irrational: demanding money from his family, complaints to Anna's mother concerning what was a small child support payment for Anna, crazy accusations toward any and all who used to be his friends. Waters was finally diagnosed as a paranoid-schizophrenic. His family decided against having him committed (even though he had shown himself to be a danger to himself and others) in an effort to let him maintain his doctor's license.

Water's devotion to Brody and Brody's unusual attention to Anna lead back to the sighting of "a young man and an old man" driving a white panel truck in the vicinity of Anna's disappearance. Waters was in his thirties while Brody was in his seventies. Interestingly, after Anna's disappearance, Waters never contacted the mother to see what had happened or to offer condolences. His only known reaction was to contact his attorney to see if he could discontinue his child support payments.

Attached is a picture of George Waters circa 1964:
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/drdoogief/detail?.dir=aac9&.dnm=43ea.jpg

Attached is a picture of George Brody from 1974:
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/drdoogief/detail?.dir=aac9&.dnm=b94f.jpg&.src=ph

Marilynilpa
11-16-2005, 05:17 PM
Anna's birth father was named George Henry Waters. He married Michaele B. in 1964 in New York City while attending Columbia Medical School. The family moved to San Francisco for him to complete his residency where Anna was born September 25, 1967.



Around the time of Anna's birth, George Waters met an older man by the name of George Brody (probably an alias). Brody was a man in his sixties at that time who immediately started to manipulate Waters and his family into his small cult of personality. Marital strains caused by Brody's manipulation and increasingly paranoid behavior by Waters led to Anna's parents divorcing shortly after her birth.



Although Waters came from a well-to-do family and was a physician working at three different facilities, he moved into a seedy hotel in the Tenderloin district of San Francisco with Brody as his roommate. Brody, who appears to have never worked a day in his life, was completely supported financially by Waters. Waters appears to have not made any moves or decisions with the full approval of Brody. (It should be clarified that even though these were two adult men living in very close arrangements, there has never been any evidence or hint that their relationship was sexual. It appeared to be more a twisted version of guru and disciple.)



Brody showed an disturbing level of interest in Anna. He believed that Anna was the reincarnation of a woman that Brody had lived with for several decades (this despite the fact that Anna was born before the woman in question had died). At Brody's and Water's insistence, the mother agreed to let Anna's name be legally changed, adding the nonsense word "Eifee" as middle name. This was demanded by Brody so that Anna's name and his name would "numerologically" add up to the same number.


In the few years after Anna's birth, George's behavior became more irrational: demanding money from his family, complaints to Anna's mother concerning what was a small child support payment for Anna, crazy accusations toward any and all who used to be his friends. Waters was finally diagnosed as a paranoid-schizophrenic. His family decided against having him committed (even though he had shown himself to be a danger to himself and others) in an effort to let him maintain his doctor's license.

Water's devotion to Brody and Brody's unusual attention to Anna lead back to the sighting of "a young man and an old man" driving a white panel truck in the vicinity of Anna's disappearance. Waters was in his thirties while Brody was in his seventies. Interestingly, after Anna's disappearance, Waters never contacted the mother to see what had happened or to offer condolences. His only known reaction was to contact his attorney to see if he could discontinue his child support payments.

Attached is a picture of George Waters circa 1964:
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/drdoogief/detail?.dir=aac9&.dnm=43ea.jpg

Attached is a picture of George Brody from 1974:
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/drdoogief/detail?.dir=aac9&.dnm=b94f.jpg&.src=ph
That is a most interesting description of Anna's father and his "friend". Now I see why the sighting of the white van with two men is significant.

Did Anna see her father enough to willingly go with him?

That comment about him asking if he could discontinue child support really makes me sick.

SadieJane
11-16-2005, 05:59 PM
Dr. D-- Thanks for posting all this information! The pictures of Anna at your link are absolutely precious. What a sweet little girl.

Her father and George Brody are VERY suspicious. I can definitley see Brody convincing her father to help him abduct Anna, given his obsession with her. Does Brody have a criminal history of violent behavior, pedophillia, etc? Was her father ever investigated/questioned by the police? Is he still alive? Did he or Brody have access to any property where they could have buried Anna's body, and has it been searched? Was Anna's DNA ever compared to Sharon Marshall's?

If you have contact with Anna's mother, please let her know that I hope her girl's case will be resolved one day!

aussiegran
11-16-2005, 06:35 PM
Dr Doogie ,what information did the P.I come up with was he looking at the father too.this is a very sad story .I hope they find her one way or another .there are so many little ones never found its so tragic for their families.I wish these a$$holes on death row would tell where any bodies are for the families sake.:(

Ella
11-16-2005, 06:53 PM
Anna's mother considered the possibility that Anna might be Sharon? The picture you have of them combined, looks like the same person. Of course I am not an expert.
Your research is very interesting. I hope Anna is still alive and will be reunited with her mother. She is a beautiful baby. How is Anna's mother? How does someone live all these years with all that pain and loss...never knowing. I can't even begin to imagine her pain. Please tell her that I have not forgotten Anna and will continue to pray for answers.

shadowangel
11-16-2005, 07:18 PM
An article from the Oakland Tribune, dated Jan 17th, '73, states Anna's parents are Mr. and Mrs. Joe Ford??? How did they get that so wrong? Or could there be a clue there....

http://www.newspaperarchive.com/cache2/30332915.pdf (This link will time out after a period, if anyone wishes to view it after that let me know).

HeartofTexas
11-16-2005, 07:31 PM
Shadow, I think Dr. Doogie said that Anna's mother had remarried by that point, so perhaps Joe Ford was Anna's stepfather?

shadowangel
11-16-2005, 07:36 PM
That very well could be....The only name I've ever seen mentioned is Waters.

Mr. E
11-16-2005, 08:41 PM
Anna's mother considered the possibility that Anna might be Sharon? The picture you have of them combined, looks like the same person.
Except Anna had a prominent mole on her cheek. No mole on Sharon.

HeartofTexas
11-16-2005, 08:50 PM
There's a Joe Ford who's an FBI agent in the San Francisco FBI office. I guess that's just a coincidence?

meggilyweggily
11-16-2005, 10:15 PM
Doogie, may I post the pictures of Anna and the information you gave on the Charley Project?

Masterj
11-17-2005, 10:59 AM
Except Anna had a prominent mole on her cheek. No mole on Sharon.
Couldn't that be easily removed though?

smile22
11-17-2005, 11:30 AM
yeah my aunt had one and they had cut it off my brother had one on his neck and got his cut off as well. would it possible to post the pic of the women who looks like ann and a pic of ann so that fellow ws could check it out. also this women who was adopted, and doesnt want to find out who her birth family is. wouldnt her parents know where they got her from? what if this agencey got the child and didnt realise it was stolen? what about sending her pic to various adoption agencys. that were around at the time of the 70's i would like more info on ann such as possible suspects any leads any clues

Mr. E
11-17-2005, 11:36 AM
I thought the eye color was also different -- blue for Sharon and brown for Anna. Maybe I am mistaken. I'm on my break at work and the computer is very slow, so I can't check it at the moment.

shadowangel
11-17-2005, 11:50 AM
I thought the eye color was also different -- blue for Sharon and brown for Anna. Maybe I am mistaken. I'm on my break at work and the computer is very slow, so I can't check it at the moment.
Sharon's eyes were blue, but others have posted here on WS that eye color can change in the first years of development. (Though this transition is usually gray to blue, or green to gray, more drastic changes have been noted). This is one of the reasons I have been trying to find more pics of Sharon in grade school. As I posted in Sharon's section, I would definitely like to see a DNA comparison here if for no other reason than to ease minds and direct energies elsewhere if there is no match...

HeartofTexas
11-17-2005, 11:50 AM
Mr. E., you're correct... blue for Sharon and brown for Anna. I don't think eye color changes by that age; however, someone on WS (Shadow?) says eye color can change in the early years. I thought that only happened in babies, but I'm not all that well informed on the subject so will defer to Shadow.

HeartofTexas
11-17-2005, 11:54 AM
Here's a little blurb on eye color changes in babies, but it's by no means a definitive answer.


When your baby is about six months old, you’ll have a better idea of eye color as pigmentation begins to form and brown or darker eyes might appear. The baby’s eye color should be determined by about age one, although some individuals may experience eye color changes through adulthood.




http://vision.about.com/od/childrenvision/f/eyecolorchange.htm (http://vision.about.com/od/childrenvision/f/eyecolorchange.htm)

shadowangel
11-17-2005, 12:01 PM
Here's a little blurb on eye color changes in babies, but it's by no means a definitive answer.


http://vision.about.com/od/childrenvision/f/eyecolorchange.htm (http://vision.about.com/od/childrenvision/f/eyecolorchange.htm)
I won't go digging for the particular post, but someone on one of the Sharon threads (or Matt B's site) had written of their personal experience with eye-color change during, I believe, the toddler/pre-school years.
In the case of Sharon Marshall, anything is possible. ;)

Dr. Doogie
11-17-2005, 12:36 PM
Let me clarify a coupole of points that have been mentioned:

"Mr. & Mrs. Joe Ford": By the time of Anna's disappearance, Anna's mother had remarried Joe Ford (so Joe is Anna's step-father). I did not mention him by name because, even though I am in contact with the family, I have not yet had a chance to ask Joe's permission to post his name. However, you guys are too good - you researched out the name quickly.

In a case like this, it is natural for some suspicion to fall on a step-father. However, understand that Joe is one of the heroes in this story. He is the one who continued the scuba searches in the creek long after the sheriffs had quit. He personally trailed both George Waters and George Brody for months, even to the point of rent the room next to theirs in the seedy San Francisco hotel in an effort to observe them. Joe considered Anna his daughter and made extra-ordinary efforts to find her.

"Anna and Sharon Marshall a Match?": There has never been a DNA test done to compare Anna to Sharon Marshall. However, due to several factors, Gerry Nance at the NCMEC truely believes that Anna is not Sharon.

I first became aware of the Marshall case when I saw a TV show on it during the mid-nineties. I immediately thought of Anna and it ultimately is what has led me to investigate Anna's case. Further review has caused me to believe that the cases are not related, though I am more than willing to be proved wrong.

The posts concerning eye color are correct: Anna's are brown, while Sharon's were blue. One quick note about Anna's mole: all the pictures from the NCMEC depict the mole as much more prominent AND on the wrong cheek. At some point, artists at the Center added the mole to their photos based on a verbal description, but misplaced it. If you view the other photos that are linked above, you will not notice a mole.

My next post will continue the story of the two Georges....

Dr. Doogie
11-17-2005, 12:41 PM
Doogie, may I post the pictures of Anna and the information you gave on the Charley Project?
Meggilyweggily:

Anna already has a listing with the Charley Project, but has pretty much only the info that is on the NCMEC poster. Feel free to pass along any additional info or photos that they could use.

Shelby
11-17-2005, 07:06 PM
Is it known if Anna's father George is still alive and if so where does he stand in all of this? Also is it known when George Brody died and if any investigating was done with his possessions, etc. after his death to see if he had anything to do with Anna's disappearance?

It just baffles me as to why and how an older man could manipulate a younger man into becoming a totally different person, and what the details are about this situation.

meggilyweggily
11-17-2005, 08:05 PM
One quick note about Anna's mole: all the pictures from the NCMEC depict the mole as much more prominent AND on the wrong cheek. At some point, artists at the Center added the mole to their photos based on a verbal description, but misplaced it. If you view the other photos that are linked above, you will not notice a mole.
I don't understand why they did not correct this. It would be easy to do.

pugsley
11-18-2005, 08:53 AM
Anna's hair appears to naturally curly. It is consistent with all of her pictures. Sharon's hair in her picture with Floyd, it is bone straight and flat to her head. (it if were blown dry it would puff out slightly)

Please don't suggest that Floyd took the time to blow it dry straight either. ;)

Also, anytime a mole is removed, there is usually a scar, isn't there? Any cosmetic surgeons out there?

Just wanted to toss in my two cents. Although I think they should do DNA to rule it out 100 %

shadowangel
11-18-2005, 09:22 AM
Please don't suggest that Floyd took the time to blow it dry straight either. ;)

Though I highly doubt that Anna is Sharon, don't put anything past Floyd. Underestimating his capabilities and the lengths he has, and will, go to has proven fatal.

Mr. E
11-18-2005, 12:08 PM
My own experience with eye color:

Both my daughters were born with blue eyes. Older daughter now has gray eyes; younger daughter has green eyes. I have very dark brown eyes and my husband has hazel eyes. The girls' eye color did change until they were probably four or so, but they weren't drastic changes. Brown to blue sounds pretty drastic, but that is just my opinion.

Dr. Doogie
11-18-2005, 12:21 PM
It should be stated that both LE and a very respected private investigator who examined Waters and Brody concluded that they could find no direct evidence that they had anything to do with Anna's disappearance. However, absence of evidence is not the same as innocence. And both LE and the PI agreed that the two Georges were extremely odd and capable of doing crazy things.

Brody developed throat cancer and was treated by Waters (who was a physician). Brody died Christmas Eve 1981. His death certificate may have been the only official piece of paperwork that ever existed on Brody - it showed no known birth date, no known relatives and no social security number.

After the death of Brody, Waters went into a frenzy of activity. He started destroying any paperwork or personal information pertaining to himself, Brody or Anna. The few items that he did not destroy were items that were not readily accessible such as safe deposit boxes.

Approximately two weeks after the death of Brody, Waters killed himself by drinking posion while in his hotel room. His death certificate shows a date of January 7, 1982, but this is speculation by the SF Coroner because Waters' body was not discovered until approximately a week after his suicide.

shadowangel
11-18-2005, 12:42 PM
Just to play devil's advocate....Reports for the bay area on the day Anna disappeared state that the entire area was in the grip of a storm of almost hurricane-like proportions. Nearly 6 inches of rain had fallen in the 24 hours prior to 8:00 am on the day Anna disappeared. Roads were flooded, levees overflowing, bridges in danger...Winds in excess of 70mph were recorded near Oakland.

The rain continued on throughout that day.

Was Anna's home even accessible by car (or van) at the time? And why, of all days, pick this day to see if she was "grabbable" (for lack of a better word).
I think the assumption would be that she was inside...

Marilynilpa
11-18-2005, 12:46 PM
It should be stated that both LE and a very respected private investigator who examined Waters and Brody concluded that they could find no direct evidence that they had anything to do with Anna's disappearance. However, absence of evidence is not the same as innocence. And both LE and the PI agreed that the two Georges were extremely odd and capable of doing crazy things.

Brody developed throat cancer and was treated by Waters (who was a physician). Brody died Christmas Eve 1981. His death certificate may have been the only official piece of paperwork that ever existed on Brody - it showed no known birth date, no known relatives and no social security number.

After the death of Brody, Waters went into a frenzy of activity. He started destroying any paperwork or personal information pertaining to himself, Brody or Anna. The few items that he did not destroy were items that were not readily accessible such as safe deposit boxes.

Approximately two weeks after the death of Brody, Waters killed himself by drinking posion while in his hotel room. His death certificate shows a date of January 7, 1982, but this is speculation by the SF Coroner because Waters' body was not discovered until approximately a week after his suicide.
This is a very disturbing case. I wonder if Waters killed himself out of grief caused by Brody's death, or by guilt.

You are so right when you say absence of evidence is not the same as innocence.

It sounds as though these two men would be capable of doing anything, including kidnapping Anna. I am sure the police looked into the activities of these two pretty closely. Did the police ever indicate they suspected Waters and Brody?

I posted this question earlier, but I'll post it here as well - did Anna know her father well enough that she would have gone with him without putting up a fuss?

Dr. Doogie
11-18-2005, 01:03 PM
Just to play devil's advocate....Reports for the bay area on the day Anna disappeared state that the entire area was in the grip of a storm of almost hurricane-like proportions. Nearly 6 inches of rain had fallen in the 24 hours prior to 8:00 am on the day Anna disappeared. Roads were flooded, levees overflowing, bridges in danger...Winds in excess of 70mph were recorded near Oakland.

The rain continued on throughout that day.

Was Anna's home even accessible by car (or van) at the time? And why, of all days, pick this day to see if she was "grabbable" (for lack of a better word).
I think the assumption would be that she was inside...
Shadowangel:

You are correct about the weather that day - that is why the creek that ran through thier property was running high and why Anna's disappearance was first treated as a possible drowning. (By the way, nice research work!)

Joe Ford (who was a carpenter) would have usually been at work on that day, but bad weather had caused him to stay home. He recently mentioned to me that he had read about another (unrelated) serial child abduction case that was solved because the abductions only occured on bad weather days and that lead LE to investigate people in the construction industries.

At the time of Anna's abduction, the weather had cleared to the point that access to the property was not an issue. The property had several houses on it and others on the property had been outside working that day. Unfortunately, no one was outside when Anna disappeared.

Dr. Doogie
11-18-2005, 01:10 PM
I posted this question earlier, but I'll post it here as well - did Anna know her father well enough that she would have gone with him without putting up a fuss?
Waters had little contact with Anna and his family after the divorce. However, Anna probably would have known who he was and all reports are that she was a very trusting child. I will pose this question to the mother and let you know her opinion on this.

By the way, one of the neighbors did report hearing someone or something walking through the woods about the time of Anna;s disappearance. The neighbor assumed that it was either a deer or someone hiking in the area.

shadowangel
11-18-2005, 01:13 PM
Shadowangel:

You are correct about the weather that day - that is why the creek that ran through thier property was running high and why Anna's disappearance was first treated as a possible drowning. (By the way, nice research work!)

Joe Ford (who was a carpenter) would have usually been at work on that day, but bad weather had caused him to stay home. He recently mentioned to me that he had read about another (unrelated) serial child abduction case that was solved because the abductions only occured on bad weather days and that lead LE to investigate people in the construction industries.

At the time of Anna's abduction, the weather had cleared to the point that access to the property was not an issue. The property had several houses on it and others on the property had been outside working that day. Unfortunately, no one was outside when Anna disappeared.
Not knowing the area, is it possible that Waters and Brody were driven from the hovel they were staying in, and at that point decided to "check" on Anna? They most likely were not expecting the step-father to be home...And, if road closures could be checked, the direction they travelled after leaving Anna's home might be narrowed down.
(As an aside, I can't help thinking how close this area is to the Zodiac's operating area ...Its even been theorized that he may have been staying in a home in the bay area that was flooded by this storm).

Marilynilpa
11-18-2005, 01:16 PM
Not knowing the area, is it possible that Waters and Brody were driven from the hovel they were staying in, and at that point decided to "check" on Anna? They most likely were not expecting the step-father to be home...And, if road closures could be checked, the direction they travelled after leaving Anna's home might be narrowed down.
(As an aside, I can't help thinking how close this area is to the Zodiac's operating area ...Its even been theorized that he may have been staying in a home in the bay area that was flooded by this storm).
Great minds must think alike, as I also wondered about the Zodiac. Obviously there is nothing to indicate his involvement in Anna's disappearance, but I was struck by how close this is to his "operating area".

Dr. Doogie
11-18-2005, 01:31 PM
When I first started investigating this case, it dawned on me that if Anna was taken by her birth father, there may be a paper trail created in the seventies and eighties that no one knew would be accesible in the new century with the Internet (much as cold cases are now being solved with DNA test that were not in existence during the commission of crimes).

A google search of the name "Eifee" turned up only one person using that name as an email address. Most interestingly, the person using that address has the first name "Anna"!

It has been determined that the email address is active and a reverse search shows that it is owned by some named Annie Yu in New Zealand. I have sent an email to this address and am waiting for a response to determine if Annie Yu could be Anna Waters.

While it is possible, it seems that the set of circumstances that would lead a caucasion girl from California to be living in New Zealand with a Chinese surname are unlikely. It is possible that the reverse search was incorrect and the address is owned by someone who is a more likely candidate.

I know that several of you are quite skilled investigators and if you believe that you can do a reverse email search that may turn up new results, please contact me privately and I will provide the address to you. I do not want to post the email address here for open public viewing because I do not want the owner of that address to receive dozens of emails asking if she is Anna. If it is her, who knows what she was told about her family and multiple emails would only serve to "spook" her away.

shadowangel
11-18-2005, 01:38 PM
Have you uncovered any evidence to indicate that Waters ever left the country? Was he in possession of a passport? Is it possible for the PI you are working with to check if a passport was ever obtained for Anna?

meggilyweggily
11-18-2005, 02:10 PM
Posted pics and info on Anna here: http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/w/waters_anna.html Not the bits about her father and his friend, but about the general circumstances of her disappearance, and the sighting of the two men in a panel truck.

With regards eye color: it's possible to chemically change eye color after death, but I'm not sure if you could do it to a live person without ruining their sight. I know about this because I read about a blue-eyed girl who was killed and her body dumped in a very polluted river in Washington state. She wasn't identified for the longest time because the chemicals in the river turned her eyes brown, so no one thought the Jane Doe could be the missing girl. Finally they compared dentals more or less out of desperation, and lo, it was she.

Dr. Doogie
11-18-2005, 02:20 PM
Great minds must think alike, as I also wondered about the Zodiac. Obviously there is nothing to indicate his involvement in Anna's disappearance, but I was struck by how close this is to his "operating area".



Marilynilpa & Shadowangel:



During my countless hours thinking about the case, the Zodiac killings came to my mind also, but a few small points:



1. The Zodiac seemed to operate in a area between San Francisco, Vallejo and Santa Rosa (if you believe Greysmith that he was involved in the I-5 co-ed murders) - all areas north of San Francisco. Anna was taken from an area thirty miles south of San Francisco.



2. The known Zodiac killings included only adults who were killed where they were found, not kidnapped and taken elsewhere (Kathleen Johns the possible exception). The Zodiac did threaten to shoot children getting off of a school bus, but no evidence exists that he ever killed any children.



3. Leigh Allen, the suspect that several LE types believed to be the Zodiac, was in fact a convicted child molester, but he appeared to abuse those he knew, either through his activities or family and friends. I do not believe that he ever was accused of kidnapping any victim.



I have briefly considered several of the famous cases that happened in the 1970's Bay Area for any possible link (kidnapped by the People's Temple and died in Guyana - that's why no body was ever found?). I quickly realized that none of them made much sense. I always came back to Anna's father and his mentor.

Marilynilpa
11-18-2005, 02:23 PM
Marilynilpa & Shadowangel:



During my countless hours thinking about the case, the Zodiac killings came to my mind also, but a few small points:



1. The Zodiac seemed to operate in a area between San Francisco, Vallejo and Santa Rosa (if you believe Greysmith that he was involved in the I-5 co-ed murders) - all areas north of San Francisco. Anna was taken from an area thirty miles south of San Francisco.



2. The known Zodiac killings included only adults who were killed where they were found, not kidnapped and taken elsewhere (Kathleen Johns the possible exception). The Zodiac did threaten to shoot children getting off of a school bus, but no evidence exists that he ever killed any children.



3. Leigh Allen, the suspect that several LE types believed to be the Zodiac, was in fact a convicted child molester, but he appeared to abuse those he knew, either through his activities or family and friends. I do not believe that he ever was accused of kidnapping any victim.



I have briefly considered several of the famous cases that happened in the 1970's Bay Area for any possible link (kidnapped by the People's Temple and died in Guyana - that's why no body was ever found?). I quickly realized that none of them made much sense. I always came back to Anna's father and his mentor.


I agree that this doesn't appear to be the work of the Zodiac, it doesn't actually fit with his "m.o."

It makes sense to look at Waters and Brody, because of their strange relationship and bizarre actions.

Dr. Doogie
11-18-2005, 02:26 PM
Posted pics and info on Anna here: http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/w/waters_anna.html Not the bits about her father and his friend, but about the general circumstances of her disappearance, and the sighting of the two men in a panel truck.

Meggilyweggily:

Thank you for the Charley Project post. A couple of corrections though: the report about the men in the van was discovered a few days after Anna's disappearance and she was born in San Francisco. If you have the ability to edit your post, that would be appreciated.

shadowangel
11-18-2005, 02:28 PM
I agree that this doesn't appear to be the work of the Zodiac, it doesn't actually fit with his "m.o."

It makes sense to look at Waters and Brody, because of their strange relationship and bizarre actions.
I quite agree, I was just struck by the juxtaposition of the occurences.

meggilyweggily
11-18-2005, 02:42 PM
Meggilyweggily:

Thank you for the Charley Project post. A couple of corrections though: the report about the men in the van was discovered a few days after Anna's disappearance and she was born in San Francisco. If you have the ability to edit your post, that would be appreciated.
I thought you said she was born in New York? Shrug. Will correct next time I update. Let me know if you want me to add/change/remove anything. I am the owner/administrator of the Charley Project and so I have free rein.

HeartofTexas
11-18-2005, 03:53 PM
I have to say, Meggily, that I'm pretty impressed you're the owner of the Charley Project! I've gone there many times. The amount of time and effort some of you give to the plight of missing children is so commendable, not to mention the technological expertise some of you have that allows you to run these websites. My hat is off to you and others like you who offer a real service for the many abducted and missing children in our world.

Dr. Doogie
11-18-2005, 04:08 PM
I thought you said she was born in New York? Shrug. Will correct next time I update. Let me know if you want me to add/change/remove anything. I am the owner/administrator of the Charley Project and so I have free rein.Meggilyweggily:

I reread my post about where Anna was born and while it is correct, I mention both NY and SF in the same sentence. I see shere it could have been easily misread.

I also am impressed with your work with the Charley Project. Thank you for all your efforts.

Dr. Doogie
11-18-2005, 04:16 PM
I have invited Anna's mother and stepfather to visit this forum. I hope that they can answer some of the questions that I may not know.

One point of clarification: The mother and stepfather are no longer married. The mother has remarried and is living in the Half Moon Bay area (in a different house than from where Anna disappeared). The stepfather currently resides on the east coast.

I have always been impressed with the maturity level and politeness of this forum (as compared to some other sites). Please remember that these are good people who have had something very bad happen to their family. Please be respectful of them.

HeartofTexas
11-18-2005, 06:10 PM
Dr. Doogie, thanks for inviting them to the forum. It's always nice to have someone that can answer questions with first-hand knowledge.

That's sad that the mom and step-dad are now divorced. So many families are unable to make it after a tragedy like that. The son of my closest friend was murdered, and it destroyed their whole family. It took years for them to heal and, obviously, the marriage didn't make it. My friend has also since remarried and is very happy... but it took many years to grow beyond the tragedy.

Annasmom
11-18-2005, 08:19 PM
An article from the Oakland Tribune, dated Jan 17th, '73, states Anna's parents are Mr. and Mrs. Joe Ford??? How did they get that so wrong? Or could there be a clue there....

http://www.newspaperarchive.com/cache2/30332915.pdf (This link will time out after a period, if anyone wishes to view it after that let me know).

Shadowangel: I couldn't get the news story (and never saw that one), but in case you haven't already learned this, Joseph Ford was Anna's stepfather. We have been divorced many years now and I no longer use the name Ford. Thanks for your interest.

Annasmom
11-18-2005, 08:25 PM
Just to play devil's advocate....Reports for the bay area on the day Anna disappeared state that the entire area was in the grip of a storm of almost hurricane-like proportions. Nearly 6 inches of rain had fallen in the 24 hours prior to 8:00 am on the day Anna disappeared. Roads were flooded, levees overflowing, bridges in danger...Winds in excess of 70mph were recorded near Oakland.

The rain continued on throughout that day.

Was Anna's home even accessible by car (or van) at the time? And why, of all days, pick this day to see if she was "grabbable" (for lack of a better word).
I think the assumption would be that she was inside...

Shadowangel, there was indeed a terrible storm that day, but the rural mail delivery person had in fact driven over the mountain road to deliver the mail, so we know the house was accessible. Also, the school bus picked up and delivered the children.

HeartofTexas
11-18-2005, 09:31 PM
Welcome to WS, Annasmom. WS has some of the smartest posters on the internet and some of the most polite, so I hope you'll make yourself right at home here.

If you don't mind me asking, what is your opinion on what happened to Anna that day? Do you think your ex- was involved in the abduction, or do you think something else happened?

SadieJane
11-18-2005, 10:32 PM
Annasmom, thank you so much for joining us. I hope you will feel comfortable enough to share your story. Anna was such a beautiful little girl, and she look so sweet and joyful in the photographs. I can't imagine what you have been through since her disappearance, but I hope your family has supported you and you have found some measure of peace.

shadowangel
11-18-2005, 11:29 PM
I am a little puzzled about the motivation....I understand that Brody felt Anna was the reincarnation of a woman Brody knew (who was not yet dead). That being said, why did they decide to take Anna? In the hopes she would grow into this woman? Or, more likely, was Brody simply a pedophile who used his influence over Waters to abduct a beautiful young child? As I read the details, Anna could not have been in the possession of the two for long, not without being detected. If Anna were kept alive, where could she have been? Passed off to someone else for safekeeping? Did Brody have any other known associates (or "followers")? Besides the place where the two stayed, did Waters maintain a residence elsewhere? Somewhere he may have stayed following the seperation but before becoming Brody's "roommate"?
Is anything known of Brody's past? Criminal history? Former associates or residences?
Were dogs ever brought in to aid in the search for Anna along the stream? The map Dr. Doogie supplied is a little difficult for me to read, but by Mapquesting it appears the stream empties into the bay. At the time Anna disappeared, given the massive amount of rain that had fallen, was the stream high enough to bypass any normal obstacles (dams, tree roots, etc)? Having two children myself, I know the fascination the young have for moving water. Did Anna normally play in or near this stream on more normal days?

Dr. Doogie
11-19-2005, 01:54 PM
I am a little puzzled about the motivation....I understand that Brody felt Anna was the reincarnation of a woman Brody knew (who was not yet dead). That being said, why did they decide to take Anna? In the hopes she would grow into this woman? Or, more likely, was Brody simply a pedophile who used his influence over Waters to abduct a beautiful young child?

There is no evidence that Brody was a pedophile. His motivation in his dealings with Waters appeared to be both financial and control. From what I understand about the woman that Brody lived with prior to Waters, his motivation appeared to be the same. Once she was terminally ill, Brody shifted his focus onto Waters and his family in an attempt to continue his small cult.



As I read the details, Anna could not have been in the possession of the two for long, not without being detected. If Anna were kept alive, where could she have been? Passed off to someone else for safekeeping? Did Brody have any other known associates (or "followers")?

The hypothesis that I have been working on is exactly what you asked. The only way that I see that the two Georges could pulled this off was to immediately pass Anna of to someone "safe", either until the heat was off or perhaps permanently. They were being followed within a very short period of time, first by LE, then the PI and also Anna's stepfather. It is not known if he had other followers, but a review of the notes taken by Anna's stepfather during his stakeouts showed that at least one unidentified woman was known to associate with them (this, however, could be innocent).



Besides the place where the two stayed, did Waters maintain a residence elsewhere? Somewhere he may have stayed following the seperation but before becoming Brody's "roommate"?

It was discovered after a period of time that the two Georges maintained two residences, both hotel rooms within a few blocks of each other. Unfortunately, this fact was not discovered sooner. While it is possible that Anna may have been kept in the "secret" hotel room for a period, it is also possible and more likely that she would have been passed off to someone far enough removed from the two Georges to avoid scrutiny.









Is anything known of Brody's past? Criminal history? Former associates or residences?

Very little is known about Brody (probably an alias, since no offical paperwork seems to have existed on him until his death certificate). We do know the name of the woman that he lived with prior to Waters and where they lived. One interesting note: the woman whom he lived with refered to him as "Bobby". Obviously, the true identity and history of Brody would be very helpful in solving this case.



Were dogs ever brought in to aid in the search for Anna along the stream? The map Dr. Doogie supplied is a little difficult for me to read, but by Mapquesting it appears the stream empties into the bay. At the time Anna disappeared, given the massive amount of rain that had fallen, was the stream high enough to bypass any normal obstacles (dams, tree roots, etc)? Having two children myself, I know the fascination the young have for moving water. Did Anna normally play in or near this stream on more normal days?

Dogs were brought in, but due to the heavy rains that day, the did not prove to be useful. The creek was at flood stage on that day, but the number of obstacles between the home and the ocean make it extremely unlikely that a body could have traveled the distance without being stopped in the creek. A dead rooster that was tossed in the creek a few hours before Anna's disappearance was found tangled in the snags on the creek - if a five pound rooster could not make it to the ocean, then a much larger 40 pound girl would have been even more likely to have been snagged. And searches turned up numerous animal carcasses in the stream, but no Anna. Also, local fisherman patrolled the ocean near the mouth of the creek and never spied a body. And a hydrologist familiar with Purisima Creek stated that a body would have been most likely washed up onto the bank by the rushing water.

Annasmom
11-19-2005, 02:26 PM
Posted pics and info on Anna here: http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/w/waters_anna.html Not the bits about her father and his friend, but about the general circumstances of her disappearance, and the sighting of the two men in a panel truck.

With regards eye color: it's possible to chemically change eye color after death, but I'm not sure if you could do it to a live person without ruining their sight. I know about this because I read about a blue-eyed girl who was killed and her body dumped in a very polluted river in Washington state. She wasn't identified for the longest time because the chemicals in the river turned her eyes brown, so no one thought the Jane Doe could be the missing girl. Finally they compared dentals more or less out of desperation, and lo, it was she.
Anna was (is) the brown-eyed child of two brown-eyed parents, so I really don't see how her eyes could turn blue. Anyway, the fused pictures of Sharon/Anna notwithstanding, there really is hardly any resemblance between the adult Sharon and Anna or any of her family. See age-progressed pictures from the National Center. There is really no reason at all to do DNA testing except that Anna is one of thousands of missing children and Sharon is one of a few "found" children. Should we ever need to identify a young woman as a possible Anna, there are other marks besides the mole and eye color. I really REALLY appreciate your interest in this case, which has baffled many of us for so many heartbreaking years.

Annasmom
11-19-2005, 02:32 PM
Welcome to WS, Annasmom. WS has some of the smartest posters on the internet and some of the most polite, so I hope you'll make yourself right at home here.

If you don't mind me asking, what is your opinion on what happened to Anna that day? Do you think your ex- was involved in the abduction, or do you think something else happened?

HeartofTexas: I wish I had some insight, but I really don't know. I never had the slightest intuition. Not knowing is harder than knowing, and one of the problems we have had with the continuing investigation through the years is that people want to make up their minds too quickly. They form an opinion so that they don't have to think about it. We have literally no evidence at all as to what may have happened to our girl.

Annasmom
11-19-2005, 02:35 PM
Have you uncovered any evidence to indicate that Waters ever left the country? Was he in possession of a passport? Is it possible for the PI you are working with to check if a passport was ever obtained for Anna?

He had applied for a passport within a year of Anna's disappearance, but apparently he destroyed the passport before he died. Also he had several flight insurance policies. I wouldn't know how to go about checking whether a passport was obtained for Anna, but it's certainly a good thought.

Annasmom
11-19-2005, 02:41 PM
Annasmom, thank you so much for joining us. I hope you will feel comfortable enough to share your story. Anna was such a beautiful little girl, and she look so sweet and joyful in the photographs. I can't imagine what you have been through since her disappearance, but I hope your family has supported you and you have found some measure of peace.

Thank you. I have to believe that even though I don't know what happened to my daughter, somewhere there is an answer. I appreciate your kind thoughts.

shadowangel
11-19-2005, 03:19 PM
Thank you. I have to believe that even though I don't know what happened to my daughter, somewhere there is an answer. I appreciate your kind thoughts.It is this very thought that keeps us all hammering away at these cases. Someone knows the answer to each mystery. Others have knowledge which will lead us to those people. As I am fond of saying, no one exists in a vacuum.

Annasmom-What has been Anna's paternal grandparents involvement in all this? Were you close? Did they live in NY at the time of Anna's disappearance?

HeartofTexas
11-19-2005, 03:52 PM
Shadow, in thinking about the possibility that Waters obtained a passport for Anna, I wonder if (thru Brody perhaps) he had contacts that falsified various documents for Anna (muck akin to what Floyd did with Sharon) so that a passport was obtained under a different name. It's interesting that some of the low-lifes that missing children come in contact with operate under false identities so that tracking them is either impossible or very difficult. Low-lifes (of which I have very little knowledge of) seem to have a whole network of contacts to assist them which makes their work organized and difficult to trace. Very frustrating.

Annasmom
11-19-2005, 03:59 PM
It is this very thought that keeps us all hammering away at these cases. Someone knows the answer to each mystery. Others have knowledge which will lead us to those people. As I am fond of saying, no one exists in a vacuum.

Annasmom-What has been Anna's paternal grandparents involvement in all this? Were you close? Did they live in NY at the time of Anna's disappearance?

I have been in touch with them all along. Although I lived in New York before Anna was born, there is no other family connection to New York. And they, as all the family, were grief-stricken.

Annasmom
11-19-2005, 04:06 PM
I am a little puzzled about the motivation....I understand that Brody felt Anna was the reincarnation of a woman Brody knew (who was not yet dead). That being said, why did they decide to take Anna? In the hopes she would grow into this woman? Or, more likely, was Brody simply a pedophile who used his influence over Waters to abduct a beautiful young child? As I read the details, Anna could not have been in the possession of the two for long, not without being detected. If Anna were kept alive, where could she have been? Passed off to someone else for safekeeping? Did Brody have any other known associates (or "followers")? Besides the place where the two stayed, did Waters maintain a residence elsewhere? Somewhere he may have stayed following the seperation but before becoming Brody's "roommate"?
Is anything known of Brody's past? Criminal history? Former associates or residences?
Were dogs ever brought in to aid in the search for Anna along the stream? The map Dr. Doogie supplied is a little difficult for me to read, but by Mapquesting it appears the stream empties into the bay. At the time Anna disappeared, given the massive amount of rain that had fallen, was the stream high enough to bypass any normal obstacles (dams, tree roots, etc)? Having two children myself, I know the fascination the young have for moving water. Did Anna normally play in or near this stream on more normal days?

Shadowangel: The woman (in the reincarnation issue) was dead by the time the old fellow started coming around. And the motivation was power and greed. He wanted control over people, and he wanted to be supported in style. As far as the dogs go, it is true that nothing conclusive came from their tracking (the ground was wet, and many people had already walked over it), but it was curious that they doubled back upstream (toward the place the neighbor heard a noise and thought "somebody was stealing something" (her words) before they quit.

shadowangel
11-19-2005, 04:37 PM
Annasmom-I take it that your ex-husband's involvement with Brody pretty much estranged him from contact with family and friends?

Just to clarify...Would Anna have likely recognized her father by the time she disappeared? (If I ask any questions that you find disturbing, let me know..Sometimes I get on a track and forget myself).

smile22
11-19-2005, 05:28 PM
can someone clarifly what "Eifee" means was it a name that her mom and step dad and family refered her to

shadowangel
11-19-2005, 05:37 PM
It evidently was a name important to Brody--the name of the dead woman that Brody thought was reincarnated in Anna?

smile22
11-19-2005, 07:34 PM
oh ok someone said that they had found and effie or something in an email search to that person please email them do not give out the add wait for a reply and see what the person says

Dr. Doogie
11-19-2005, 08:31 PM
can someone clarifly what "Eifee" means was it a name that her mom and step dad and family refered her toAs best we can tell, "Eifee" does not have any meaning. It is just a combination of letters that when added to "Anna Christian Waters" arrives at the same numerilogical value as Brody. (Yes, it is kooky, but a lot of people believe this junk.)

A google search of "eifee" turns up as a first name and a surname once each from geneaologies dating back to the 1800's, but is seldom used and never recently.

The name does turn up in several foriegn language web sites. Evidently, something in an Asian language when translated into english comes up as "eifee".

Anna's mother and step-father never used the name "Eifee". However, Anna's birth father did, which is why it turning up as a email address owned by an Anna fits nicely with my hypothesis about Anna being taken by her father.

Shadowangel: The dead woman's name was not "Eifee", though that is a good thought. I have refrained from mentioning her by name because she was certainly a victim of Brody's manipulation and was obviously not involved in Anna's disappearance because she had passed away before 1973.

Dr. Doogie
11-19-2005, 08:49 PM
Upon re-reading some of my posts, I think it is necessary to make this one point: While I admit that my looking at the case tends to lead me to George Waters being involved in Anna's disappearance, I should emphasize that I believe Brody to be the true bad guy here. Waters was by all reports was a handsome, well-educated, even "brilliant" man who could have achieved great things except for two misfortunes: his mental illness and his meeting Brody who exploited that illness. I am no expert on the ethics of how responsible the mentally ill are for their own actions, but there is no excuse for how Brody took advantage of a sick man for his own benifit - regardless of whether they were involved in Anna's disappearance.

meggilyweggily
11-19-2005, 11:41 PM
Doogie -- I made the corrections you mentioned to Anna Waters's case file. If there's additional information, pictures, whatever, you want me to post, just send it to me.

HeartofTexas
11-20-2005, 12:27 AM
Dr. Doogie, I've had the privilege of knowing many schizophrenics in my life, and I can tell you unequivocally that they are truly the walking wounded in our society. Their illness is far too complicated to describe here (there are at least 40+ different diagnoses of schizophrenia), but I can tell you they lack any clue to being used or abused by "normal" people. If Dr. Waters was indeed a schizophrenic, then he was a victim of Mr. Brody in every sense. Mr. Brody knew what he was doing every step of the way, but Dr. Waters never had a clue. Dr. Waters had only fallen under the spell of a man who probably promised hope and friendship.

2sisters
11-20-2005, 01:09 AM
This relationship between the 2 seems quite bizzare. I belive this was addressed but I can't find the post so sorry to repeat anything, but, were the 2 involved in a homosexual relationship? If so then the relationship would make more sense.
Is it possible that they took Anna, brainwashed her and that she today has no clue who Anna Waters is? But then what would have became of her after her father's suicide, she would have only been 14. It is a puzzling story but i feel like she is alive somewhere.

Annasmom, glad you can come and post. I can't imagine how hard this is for you and I hope you find answers someday soon.

meggilyweggily
11-20-2005, 01:39 AM
This relationship between the 2 seems quite bizzare. I belive this was addressed but I can't find the post so sorry to repeat anything, but, were the 2 involved in a homosexual relationship? If so then the relationship would make more sense.
Is it possible that they took Anna, brainwashed her and that she today has no clue who Anna Waters is? But then what would have became of her after her father's suicide, she would have only been 14. It is a puzzling story but i feel like she is alive somewhere.
No, their relationship wasn't sexual, I believe Doogie said. More a cult leader type of relationship.

Since Anna was only five when she was taken, you wouldn't have to really brainwash her. People generally don't remember very much before they're about six years old, and almost nothing before three -- what few memories Anna has of her early childhood now may not be sufficient to make her realize she once lived with another family.

shadowangel
11-20-2005, 11:59 AM
As best we can tell, "Eifee" does not have any meaning. It is just a combination of letters that when added to "Anna Christian Waters" arrives at the same numerilogical value as Brody. (Yes, it is kooky, but a lot of people believe this junk.)

You've done some amazing work here, Doc, but I ain't buying this one! ;) :) :angel:
I understand the numerology angle...But, somehow, some way, I have to believe that name means something. Maybe something from the context of the time that was missed..?

Were Brody's prints ever ran to try to determine his real identity? There had to have been something he touched from which prints could have been lifted...
Did Waters have any credit cards at the time? Obviously the two didn't go tooling around town all the time in a white van, or someone would have noticed. I'm thinking a rental (unless rentals could be secured with cash back in the early '70s).

And, thinking out loud...Has there ever been any hint of a connection to Satanism? I ask because Anton LeVey was based in San Francisco, and had a small following at the time. He was known to have an obsession with Jayne Mansfield. When Jayne was killed in a car accident in '67, so was her lawyer/friend, Sam Brody. LeVey is reported to have taken credit for the accident and killing Brody...

mysteriew
11-20-2005, 12:40 PM
Annasmom, thank you for coming here and posting. I know that has to be extremely difficult for you, and I am so sorry that you have so many questions about your little girl.
I admire your ability to go on, let alone to try to come here and answer questions. Yet I also think it would be questions that you live with every day. I have children, and I don't know what I would do if something like this happened to one of mine.
I mainly wanted to let you know I admire your strength, and patience with us.
I hesitate in asking this because I know you have had to do it many, many times over the years. But I was wondering if you could tell us the story of Anna's disappearance based on what you remember. I understand that there will be details that you may not remember, or may not be comfortable giving out. You mentioned that some people have jumped to conclusions, without knowing the whole story and I don't want that to happen here. One of the ways to prevent that from happening, is to learn the story as it unfolded.
If this would be too difficult for you, then I understand. Only give us as much info as you are comfortable with.
And thank you for coming.

Annasmom
11-20-2005, 12:59 PM
Annasmom-I take it that your ex-husband's involvement with Brody pretty much estranged him from contact with family and friends?

Just to clarify...Would Anna have likely recognized her father by the time she disappeared? (If I ask any questions that you find disturbing, let me know..Sometimes I get on a track and forget myself).

I don't think she would have recognized him. He left home when she was a year old and never saw her after that, though he sent a small support check for her each month. And, yes, he systematically "severed relationships" (his words) with every friend and family member, usually by introducing them to Brody and being dissatisfied with their reaction to him.

Thanks for your sensitivity; I am not disturbed by any of your questions, and I very much appreciate your interest.

Annasmom
11-20-2005, 01:51 PM
Annasmom, thank you for coming here and posting. I know that has to be extremely difficult for you, and I am so sorry that you have so many questions about your little girl.
I admire your ability to go on, let alone to try to come here and answer questions. Yet I also think it would be questions that you live with every day. I have children, and I don't know what I would do if something like this happened to one of mine.
I mainly wanted to let you know I admire your strength, and patience with us.
I hesitate in asking this because I know you have had to do it many, many times over the years. But I was wondering if you could tell us the story of Anna's disappearance based on what you remember. I understand that there will be details that you may not remember, or may not be comfortable giving out. You mentioned that some people have jumped to conclusions, without knowing the whole story and I don't want that to happen here. One of the ways to prevent that from happening, is to learn the story as it unfolded.
If this would be too difficult for you, then I understand. Only give us as much info as you are comfortable with.
And thank you for coming.

Thank you for such a sweet letter. It is difficult to summarize the case briefly, since so much has been investigated in so many different areas over so many years. I wrote a lengthy manuscript containing everything I know about it and gave it to Dr. Doogie, who has referred to it several times and has posted photographs and maps on this forum. The most significant thing I can tell you is that not a shred of evidence, physical or otherwise, has EVER been found to explain Anna’s disappearance. Everything possible has been done except using the resources of the Internet, and this is what Doogie and I are hoping will shed some new light on the matter.

Very briefly: My daughter disappeared from our rural home in January, 1973. She had just returned from kindergarten on the school bus and was playing in the back yard. I became aware of a great silence after about ten minutes and went out to check on her. When she could not be found, I panicked and called the Sheriff’s department, who responded in less than a half-hour and sounded a siren, hoping to get her attention. The grounds and surroundings were searched with helicopters, divers, and riders on horseback. A neighbor said she heard rustling in the bushes near the creek right before she heard the siren. A friend coming to visit said (after several days) that he had passed a white van on the road with a young man and an old man who waved and acted suspiciously friendly. He said that he had greeted Anna at the front door as he came in, which made us think she had walked up to get the mail from the mailbox. This was the last anyone saw of her.

We later walked along the schoolbus route and found that there were several places where our house could be watched by someone without their being seen. Someone could well have followed the schoolbus that day.

Despite searches over a year’s time of the creek, there was not a single indication that she had gone there. Divers picked out the many log jams, one by one, over a two-mile stretch, and a geologist later said it was impossible, considering tides, currents, and silting patterns, that we should not have recovered evidence if Anna had gone into the water.

Remember that this all happened before there was a protocol for searching for missing children. There were no groups such as the National Association for Missing and Exploited Children, which has carried her case as “probable non-family abduction”, along with age-progressed pictures, since they were established.

Anna’s father and his elderly mentor were followed and investigated several times. They were very secretive, whether because they were involved or because in this, as in all else, they were just paranoid, we do not know. No evidence was found connecting them to Anna’s disappearance..

If you have questions, don’t hesitate to ask. I do so appreciate your concern and help. Even if we never find Anna, it is a consolation to me that we have tried every way possible to find her.

mysteriew
11-20-2005, 02:23 PM
Anna's Mom thank you so much for responding. I was afraid that it might be too painful for you. And I would not want to be the cause of any additional pain.
I also know you live with these questions every day, but sometimes it gets difficult to continue talking about the same things over and over. Again may I say how much I admire your strength.
I know that feeling of things are "too quiet". I have also experienced it with my kids, but was lucky in that it usually meant that they were into some minor mischief. My thoughts and prayers are with you and I am hoping that someday, someway you will get some info about Anna.

HeartofTexas
11-20-2005, 02:49 PM
Annasmom, were your ex- and Mr. Brody only followed and watched, or were they actually questioned. If so, how did they respond to questions by law enforcement?

Also, if Anna hadn't seen her father since she was one year old, how did it come about that Mr. Brody wanted to change her middle name from Christian to Eifee?

Shadow, it's possible that EIFEE is pronounced like the letters FE. I wonder if it's possible that those are either the initials of Brody's real name, or possibly the initials of the woman he was interested in? It's a stretch, but I guess anything is possible. It's also possible EIFEE is pronounced like "eye-fee", so I could be way off on this.

docwho3
11-20-2005, 03:45 PM
. . . .Brody was a man in his sixties at that time who immediately started to manipulate Waters and his family into his small cult of personality. . . . .Was this phrase "cult of personality" meant as this actual cult
http://www.psychoheresy-aware.org/personality_cult13_2.html

or was the term describing "Cult of personality is a term for what is perceived to be excessive adulation of a single living leader, especially a head of state. The term was coined by the General Secretary of the Soviet Communist Party Nikita Khrushchev in his 1956 "Secret Speech" denouncing Joseph Stalin to 20th Party Congress. "
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult_of_personality

oh and another bit of info for what its worth to readers:
Eifee is actually both a surname and also used as a first name as I found by doing a simple web search.

Also someone had mentioned the possibility of the name being an alias borrowed from elsewhere: I also found another Brody, George although as yet I see no link I include the info in case such a link should show up later.
"Brody, George
George Brody - Pueblo Chieftain - July 30, 2002 - George Brody, 82, of Pueblo, passed away July 27, 2002. Mr. Brody was born Feb. 18, 1920, in New York City, N.Y. He was married to Edith Yord who survives him. Mr. Brody was owner of Martin Clothiers. A graveside service was held on Monday, July 29, 2002, at B'nai Jacob Cemetery. Memorials may be sent to the B'nai Jacob Cemetery in care of Mr. Forey Vean at 107 S. Union, Pueblo, Colo. 81003."
http://www.kmitch.com/Pueblo/obits/bro-buo.html

mysteriew
11-20-2005, 04:13 PM
There is a nickname where the Nick is Effie- short for Euphemia. A city named Effie in Minnesota http://www.edgeofthewilderness.org/effie/effie.htm
and Effie awards which are related to advertising. http://www.effie.org/award_winners/search_winners.html
An Effie's restaurant in Pa. http://philadelphia.citysearch.com/profile/8959635
as well as an Effie's place bed and breakfast in Wilmington Ohio.
http://effies-place.com/
Eifee could be a mispelling or could be a way of personalizing the name Effie.

docwho3
11-20-2005, 04:43 PM
A few more samples of eifee names:
"User Info: Anna
Avatar:
Login: Eifee
Name: Anna
Level: Novice (What does this mean?)
Email: eifee_ AT hotmail DOT com "
http://perplexus.info/user.php?uid=2058
eifee as surname(scroll down or do cntrl & F for page search and enter the name eifee)
http://ftp.us-census.org/pub/usgenweb/census/mt/stillwater/1930/ed52-brief.txt
Authors: Charles T. McGee with Eifee Poy Yew Chow
http://www.healthlibrary.com/bookreviews/8-13-nov04.html
7 Cadson, Eifee SC 12:04 9
http://205.173.41.7/athletics/XC/1967/ma_4.htm

HeartofTexas
11-20-2005, 05:08 PM
Doc, I believe the Anna/Eifee one above is the one Shadow referenced a few threads ago. If I'm not mistaken, he's emailed this girl to see if she could possibly be Anna W. It seemed like she had a last name that was Chinese or Japanese, so he doubts it's her.

docwho3
11-20-2005, 05:17 PM
Doc, I believe the Anna/Eifee one above is the one Shadow referenced a few threads ago. If I'm not mistaken, he's emailed this girl to see if she could possibly be Anna W. It seemed like she had a last name that was Chinese or Japanese, so he doubts it's her.
I did not think she was the same but I wanted to give examples of the name being used with that spelling. Thats why I posted more than one link.

Thanks for the response and info though.

HeartofTexas
11-20-2005, 08:02 PM
You may be right, Doc... and this may be an entirely new one. Sometimes it's hard for me to remember or absorb from page to page all of the information that is offered.

docwho3
11-20-2005, 08:35 PM
You may be right, Doc... and this may be an entirely new one. Sometimes it's hard for me to remember or absorb from page to page all of the information that is offered.
:-) I agree with you. I also do not think the name I posted was that of the missing girl. I had read where there was some doubt as to the name as it was spelled making any sense as a true name so I ran a simple web search using that spelling & found some legitimate name examples using that spelling. That was just one of the examples.

As to reading so many pages of info: You are right. It is hard to remember it all. Sometimes after reading so much info I feel as if my head is spinning.
Some of these forum topics have over 15 pages of threads and each thread may have multiple pages of posts.

Dr. Doogie
11-20-2005, 08:47 PM
The correct pronounciation of "Eifee" is "eye-fee".

The profile from perplexus.com is the one that I have contacted via email. I have some more info on this, but I want to speak with Annasmom first before I post here. I should be able to put the info up here either later tonight or tomorrow.

One thing that I noticed from Annasmom's post is the order of the events concerning the white van - it appears that the friend saw the van with the men first, then saw Anna in the yard before she disappeared. If the van was heading away from the house, it would make it less likely that they turned around and grabbed Anna. If they were heading toward the house, or were heading toward one of areas that allowed for a clear view of the house, then that would tend to make them more likely suspects.

Marilynilpa
11-21-2005, 09:10 AM
The correct pronounciation of "Eifee" is "eye-fee".

The profile from perplexus.com is the one that I have contacted via email. I have some more info on this, but I want to speak with Annasmom first before I post here. I should be able to put the info up here either later tonight or tomorrow.

One thing that I noticed from Annasmom's post is the order of the events concerning the white van - it appears that the friend saw the van with the men first, then saw Anna in the yard before she disappeared. If the van was heading away from the house, it would make it less likely that they turned around and grabbed Anna. If they were heading toward the house, or were heading toward one of areas that allowed for a clear view of the house, then that would tend to make them more likely suspects.Annasmom, I was away from my computer this weekend, so am just now getting around to reading all the posts.

I am so happy that you joined us, because you've been able to see that there are a lot of us who want to help. At times we may throw out some rather strange theories, just because we're thinking out loud and trying to make sense of this terrible event. Having you take part in this discussion is so helpful, because you can quickly set straight any misinformation we may have.

Dr.Doogie, thanks for the update about the white van.

Annasmom
11-21-2005, 10:59 AM
Annasmom, were your ex- and Mr. Brody only followed and watched, or were they actually questioned. If so, how did they respond to questions by law enforcement?

Also, if Anna hadn't seen her father since she was one year old, how did it come about that Mr. Brody wanted to change her middle name from Christian to Eifee?

Shadow, it's possible that EIFEE is pronounced like the letters FE. I wonder if it's possible that those are either the initials of Brody's real name, or possibly the initials of the woman he was interested in? It's a stretch, but I guess anything is possible. It's also possible EIFEE is pronounced like "eye-fee", so I could be way off on this.
The father was questioned by a sheriff's deputy at the time and denied any knowledge of Anna's disappearance. Brody proposed the name change when Anna was still an infant, before her father left home, and a birth certificate was reissued with the name Anna Christian Eifee Waters. As Doogie said, the name was pronounced eye-fee, and her father called her that (and sent her last support check in that name.) I have the death certificate of Brody's girl friend, and though she also used several names, I can't see a connection with the "Eifee" name.

mysteriew
11-21-2005, 03:09 PM
Annasmom, I am wondering about the relationship with her father. Had he attempted to make visits or was not visiting with her a choice he made. Other than the support checks, what was his last attempt to make contact? Did he complain about having to pay support, and did he pay regularly? Had there been any recent discussion about the support payments?

Marilynilpa
11-21-2005, 03:25 PM
Annasmom, I am wondering about the relationship with her father. Had he attempted to make visits or was not visiting with her a choice he made. Other than the support checks, what was his last attempt to make contact? Did he complain about having to pay support, and did he pay regularly? Had there been any recent discussion about the support payments?
Good questions! In a previous post, it was revealed that after her disappearance, Anna's father asked if he could discontinue child support payments.

Annasmom, how soon after Anna's disappearance was that?

Annasmom
11-21-2005, 08:10 PM
Annasmom, I am wondering about the relationship with her father. Had he attempted to make visits or was not visiting with her a choice he made. Other than the support checks, what was his last attempt to make contact? Did he complain about having to pay support, and did he pay regularly? Had there been any recent discussion about the support payments?
He had requested joint custody when we were divorced, but he never attempted to visit Anna. I am convinced he was "following orders" most of the time, so it is difficult to say whether decisions were his or those of his mentor. He attempted to get his parents to pay Anna's support, but they refused; he paid regularly and his question to the lawyer about the support check referred to the February check (after Anna disappeared in January.)

Annasmom
11-21-2005, 08:12 PM
Good questions! In a previous post, it was revealed that after her disappearance, Anna's father asked if he could discontinue child support payments.

Annasmom, how soon after Anna's disappearance was that?
I'm not sure, since I learned this second-hand. It was some time between Jan. 16 and Feb. 1, 1973.

Dr. Doogie
11-22-2005, 12:46 AM
I received a reply back from Eifee_@hotmail.com and the "Anna" there is not Anna Waters. The name of "Annie Yu" is an alias that the true owner of the email address used to protect her privacy while posting. She did provide her real name and a few details about herself that checked out with a followup google search. She is an Asian twenty-something attending college in New Zealand - I even found a picture of her and she is definitely not our Anna.

This means that our best lead has turned out to be a dud. Research into the name "Eifee" may still turn up something, but not at this email address. Oh, well - back to the drawing board...

mysteriew
11-22-2005, 01:01 AM
Good try Dr. Doogie.

Dr. Doogie
11-22-2005, 02:00 AM
In my emails with eifee_@hotmail.com, she stated that she chose the name "Eifee" because it was a character from the Pokemon card game. Attached is a picture of that character:


http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/drdoogief/detail?.dir=aac9&.dnm=e0cdscd.jpg&.src=ph

H0NEYWEST
11-22-2005, 02:06 AM
A search of "Eifee" does reveal that it is a surname, perhaps it is the real surname of Brody.

Marilynilpa
11-22-2005, 08:55 AM
I'm not sure, since I learned this second-hand. It was some time between Jan. 16 and Feb. 1, 1973.I cannot believe a father would ask that question so soon after his daughter had vanished. You can see where his priorities were!

As for the issue of "Eifee", this was a name Brody came up with so his name and Anna's could balance numerologically. I don't believe it was a family name, just some made up BS from the mind of a wacko man.

Richard
11-22-2005, 01:33 PM
I have been following this thread with interest. I lived in the SF bay area in 1974, but had not heard of this case at that time.

I actually visited Half Moon Bay, when visiting the area again in April of 1976. I recall that day on the beach being very cold and windy, and having to wear a borrowed winter coat, even though it was much warmer in the Mountain View and Palo Alto areas.

From my experience and memory of Half Moon Bay, and from reading about the stormy weather at the time in January of 1973, I would imagine that it was quite cold the day Anna disappeared? Was it her habit to come home from school and then run down to the creek or anywhere distant from home without saying something? It would seem to me that a trip to the mail box might be more likely than a run on the beach.

Of course, it is entirely possible that this little girl was picked up totally at random by a person so inclined, who just happened to be driving by at that moment. Such things have happened. But with everything I have read regarding the known nut cases in the area, I tend to think that it was a planned event.

US passports were rather easy to obtain back in 1973. All you had to do was provide a birth certificate, available simply by writing the state records office, then submitting it, along with two photos and the proper form to any US Post Office. Since Sept 11, 2001 procedures have been tightened significantly and much more is required in regard to identifying oneself in person.

Back in 1973, however, a person could visit a cemetery, find the grave of a child born about the same time as the person for whom a passport was desired, then go through the same steps above. Similarily, a social security number, drivers license, etc could all be obtained.

With that in mind, how could one abduct a child and then travel with her overseas where a passport might be required. Other than finding a grave with a matching name to the one on the adult's passport, a "legal" name change might work. By changing Anna's birth certificate to include the name "Eifee", someone by that last name (real or assumed) might be able to apply for a passport for her. Although I mentioned US passports, if the circumstances were correct, a foreign passport might also have been obtained in a similar manner. This might be more difficult if the birth father had left his own name on the birth certificate, but might have been overlooked with the proper "name change" documentation from somewhere.

Although this is only speculation on my part, I base it on the fact that the more likely suspects were never seen afterward with Anna, and that no trace of her was ever found in the area. Could they have arranged things in advance for a quick kidnapping, followed by a turnover to a third party who already had a passport and other documentation in hand to get her out of the country?

A couple of things could be checked regarding the above scenario. Were there any applications for passports in the name of Eifee made around that time? Were there any other name changes made for children or adults involving either the name Eifee, or the name of the birth father?

Dr. Doogie
11-22-2005, 06:45 PM
George Brody, the elderly "mentor" of Anna's birth-father died from cancer on December 24th, 1981. An inquiry by the San Francisco Public Administrators office listed his birthdate as August 15th, 1923 and a birthplace of Massachusetts. They determined that he had never worked and had no social security number. An interesting tidbit states that he was involved in politics at on time. No relatives were ever discovered. Brody's body was cremated December 30th, 1981 at a funeral home in Oakland, CA.

Any of the above details are highly suspect because the "facts" most likely came from George Waters who, along with Brody, went to great lengths to hide information about themselves. Immediately after Brody's death, Waters began destroying as much documentation about the two of them that he could find. Two weeks later, he himself was dead from suicide by poisoning.

Dr. Doogie
11-22-2005, 07:07 PM
Were Brody's prints ever ran to try to determine his real identity? There had to have been something he touched from which prints could have been lifted... As far as I know, Brody's fingerprints were not taken (except perhaps as a routine part of the autopsiy process. There are no known objects from that era that would have his fingerprints on them. I also do not know how far back fingerprint records were kept (is it called Codex?).


Did Waters have any credit cards at the time? Obviously the two didn't go tooling around town all the time in a white van, or someone would have noticed. I'm thinking a rental (unless rentals could be secured with cash back in the early '70s). I do not know if Waters had any credit cards at the time. I do know that I have rented vehicles in the early eighties with just cash and an ID. Waters did have a light colored VW squareback car that was their primary transportation. Interestingly, a similar vehicle was spotted in the area during the period following Anna's disappeareance (Annasmom can give you more details on this).

And, thinking out loud...Has there ever been any hint of a connection to Satanism? I ask because Anton LeVey was based in San Francisco, and had a small following at the time. He was known to have an obsession with Jayne Mansfield. When Jayne was killed in a car accident in '67, so was her lawyer/friend, Sam Brody. LeVey is reported to have taken credit for the accident and killing Brody... There has never been any hint of Satanic involvement with either Anna's disappearance or the two Georges. My impression is that Brody's influence (while he did claim certain powers), was not primarily religious in any sense. It was more of a control issue. Perhaps my use of the term "cult of personality" has implied a more theological aspect than there truely was. I use the term to explain more of the control techniques that Brody used (seperating Waters from his family and friends, making him really on Brody for all decisions, etc).

Richard
11-23-2005, 10:48 AM
George Brody, the elderly "mentor" of Anna's birth-father died from cancer on December 24th, 1981. An inquiry by the San Francisco Public Administrators office listed his birthdate as August 15th, 1923 and a birthplace of Massachusetts. They determined that he had never worked and had no social security number. An interesting tidbit states that he was involved in politics at on time. No relatives were ever discovered. Brody's body was cremated December 30th, 1981 at a funeral home in Oakland, CA.

Any of the above details are highly suspect because the "facts" most likely came from George Waters who, along with Brody, went to great lengths to hide information about themselves. Immediately after Brody's death, Waters began destroying as much documentation about the two of them that he could find. Two weeks later, he himself was dead from suicide by poisoning.
It sounds like perhaps the name Brody was an alias - or maybe it was his real name, but that he took great pains to keep it out of California records. Other records, however, would certainly exist.

Assuming that his birthdate was correct (or at least close), "Brody" would have been of prime draft age during WW II. Do any records exist of his serving in the armed forces, or of registering for the draft?

A birth certificate for him might exist in MA vital records. The 1930 census records might list him and his parents in MA. If a George Brody, born on 15 August 1923 exists, did he actually die as a child or young man, and this character steal his identity?

Fingerprints taken from the body or from any arrests (if they exist) could be checked against the FBI data base, and might turn up something. The problems is that if the FBI fingerprint expert who gets them sees any smudge or imperfection, he (or she) will automatically refuse to run any check, and simply send them back as unreadable.

Marilynilpa
11-23-2005, 10:54 AM
It sounds like perhaps the name Brody was an alias - or maybe it was his real name, but that he took great pains to keep it out of California records. Other records, however, would certainly exist.

Assuming that his birthdate was correct (or at least close), "Brody" would have been of prime draft age during WW II. Do any records exist of his serving in the armed forces, or of registering for the draft?

A birth certificate for him might exist in MA vital records. The 1930 census records might list him and his parents in MA. If a George Brody, born on 15 August 1923 exists, did he actually die as a child or young man, and this character steal his identity?

Fingerprints taken from the body or from any arrests (if they exist) could be checked against the FBI data base, and might turn up something. The problems is that if the FBI fingerprint expert who gets them sees any smudge or imperfection, he (or she) will automatically refuse to run any check, and simply send them back as unreadable.
I have a feeling this guy was running from the law, and either assumed someone else's identity, or just made up one. It does appear he went to great lengths to make sure no one could track him down.

I find it impossible to believe Brody never held a job. Unless he was independently wealthy, he had to have worked at some point in his life.

HeartofTexas
11-23-2005, 12:09 PM
The only George Brody I could find on the 1930 Federal Census was one that was born in 1919 (and not 1923), son of Sigmund and Sarah Brody, and living in Boston, MA at the time of the census. If I find anything else, I'll post it.

HeartofTexas
11-23-2005, 12:16 PM
I should have said in my previous post that the only George Brody I could find in Massachusetts on the 1930 Federal Census was the above one. I found two other George Brody's who were both born in 1923 in other parts of the country as follows:

George Brody, home in 1930 was Salt Lake City, Utah, born in "abt. 1923".

George Brody, home in 1930 was Wilkes-Barre, Lucerne Co., Pennsylvania, born in "abt. 1923", son of Samuel and Reba Brody.

Dr. Doogie
11-25-2005, 01:23 PM
Something clicked when reviewing the posts about George Brody - a birth year of 1923 would have made him only 58 years old when he died. If you have not seen his picture, click this link: http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/drdoogief/detail?.dir=aac9&.dnm=b94f.jpg

This picture was taken in 1974, when he would have been 51 years old. This is not the picture of a man in his early fifties. So the birthdate of 1923 is surely false. I would say he was born somewhere in the range of 1895 through 1910 (my speculation).

Here is where things get very dark and wierd (if they weren't already): Why give this date on a death certificate? Why would the public officals who investigated this death sign off on a date that was clearly false...unless the age given matched the body that they received. Since Brody had no known relatives, the body was identified only by George Waters. Since Waters was a physican working and living in the seediest part of town, he could very well have found someone homeless who was terminal, given him a place to live until he died, then claimed that it was Brody. This would have allowed Brody to recreate himself once again with a new name somewhere else.

A few problems with this hypothesis: 1. A long paper trail existed that Brody was being treated for cancer by both Waters and others prior to his death. 2. Waters had taken out a substantial amount of life insurance on himself to be paid out to Brody. By Brody "dying" and assuming a new name, he would not be able to collect on those policies once Waters killed himself two weeks later...UNLESS the policies that were found were only the ones that had not been changed to whatever new name Brody might have assumed. Could there have been other policies that had been issued under a different beneficiary name?

mysteriew
11-25-2005, 01:53 PM
Something clicked when reviewing the posts about George Brody - a birth year of 1923 would have made him only 58 years old when he died. If you have not seen his picture, click this link: http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/drdoogief/detail?.dir=aac9&.dnm=b94f.jpg

This picture was taken in 1974, when he would have been 51 years old. This is not the picture of a man in his early fifties. So the birthdate of 1923 is surely false. I would say he was born somewhere in the range of 1895 through 1910 (my speculation).

Here is where things get very dark and wierd (if they weren't already): Why give this date on a death certificate? Why would the public officals who investigated this death sign off on a date that was clearly false...unless the age given matched the body that they received.

George was the physician of record for Brody and was a practicing physician at the time. There was no signs that Brody died of anything other than natural causes. There was no public controversy over the death. George himself probably signed the death certificate.
It is likely that whatever George told them, would have been taken at face value. With no known relatives to object or provide info to the contrary, then they would have considered themselves lucky to have a physician able to provide the info about him, and would not have questioned any he said about Brody's background.
If there had been relatives to object, or if Brody had been murdered- they might have questioned it. But since it was natural causes, they just needed someone to fill out the paperwork.

Richard
11-25-2005, 11:29 PM
I wonder if the death of this little boy is in any way related to the disappearance of Anna. Marin County is on the north end of the Golden Gate Bridge, and would be very close to Half Moon Bay. The estimated date of death is January 1973, the same month and year that Anna went missing. I would think that LE compared the DNA of both, but could there have been a link? Age pretty close, too.
--------------------------------------------------------
Unidentified White Male Child
The victim was discovered on September 26, 1974 in Mill Valley, Marin County, California.
Estimated date of death is January 1973
Vital Statistics

Estimated age: 4 - 6 years old
Approximate Height and Weight: Undetermined.
Distinguishing Characteristics: Brown hair. Small stature for age.
Dentals: No restorations present
Clothing: Clothing found closeby: Green nylon or dacron windbreaker, green and white stripped knit type shirt, blue t-shirt, Red Lady Bug 1/2" stick pin.
DNA: Available

Case History
The victim's skull ribs and vertebrae was found in Mill Valley, California in 1974. His skeletal remains were found near the Mill Valley Golf Course.
There were no signs of burial, no signs of abuse or malnutrition, no obvious clues about how he died.
The remains were originally thought to be female, but DNA shows that the victim was a male.

Investigators
If you have any information about this case please contact: Marin County Coroner's Office, Coroner Gary Tindel 415-499-6043

Agency Case Number: 74-215
NCIC Number: N/A
The Doe Network: Case File 626UMCA

Link:
http://doenetwork.us/cases/626umca.html

laini
11-26-2005, 02:52 AM
Very interesting, Richard. I just read about that little boy recently; the ladybug pin stuck in my mind. I didn't realize the location and time of where he was found, being so similar to Anna's disappearnce. If it was somebody else who kidnapped Anna (other than Brody and George), maybe they were also connected to this little boy's murder. Maybe a local pedophile or somebody in the area for awhile.

Dr. Doogie
11-27-2005, 11:59 AM
After a couple of long discussions yesterday with Anna's step-father, we discovered another possible lead on George Brody. It will probably take a least a couple of days before we know anything, but I will post what we find here as soon as possible.

Dr. Doogie
11-30-2005, 01:29 PM
We have discovered a safe deposit box in the name of George Brody that was was "abandoned" and turned over to the State Controller's Office as unclaimed property. Unfortunately, any personel papers inside would have been destroyed in 1991 when the state recieved them.

The bank does not have the application for the box on file at the local branch. I am researching to see where the bank archives its old financial material. I am hoping that it will tell us more about the mysterious Mr. Brody, such as social security number, next of kin, etc.

I have not confirmed that this belonged to the same George Brody, but several things fit: it had a large amount of cash in it and Anna's step-father confirmed that Brody did some banking in the city where it was found (easy access by mass transit). The step-father and Annasmom were in possesion of two safe deposit keys from Brody shortly after his death but were never ale to find out which banks they were from. All that they can find now (25 years later) are photos of the keys that were used to try and identify the banks - the keys themselves has disappeared.

Marilynilpa
11-30-2005, 01:35 PM
We have discovered a safe deposit box in the name of George Brody that was was "abandoned" and turned over to the State Controller's Office as unclaimed property. Unfortunately, any personel papers inside would have been destroyed in 1991 when the state recieved them.

The bank does not have the application for the box on file at the local branch. I am researching to see where the bank archives its old financial material. I am hoping that it will tell us more about the mysterious Mr. Brody, such as social security number, next of kin, etc.

I have not confirmed that this belonged to the same George Brody, but several things fit: it had a large amount of cash in it and Anna's step-father confirmed that Brody did some banking in the city where it was found (easy access by mass transit). The step-father and Annasmom were in possesion of two safe deposit keys from Brody shortly after his death but were never ale to find out which banks they were from. All that they can find now (25 years later) are photos of the keys that were used to try and identify the banks - the keys themselves has disappeared.
How unfortunate that the personal papers have been destroyed. They may have gone a long way to explain just who Mr. Brody really was.

mysteriew
11-30-2005, 08:49 PM
He had requested joint custody when we were divorced, but he never attempted to visit Anna. I am convinced he was "following orders" most of the time, so it is difficult to say whether decisions were his or those of his mentor. He attempted to get his parents to pay Anna's support, but they refused; he paid regularly and his question to the lawyer about the support check referred to the February check (after Anna disappeared in January.)

It does sound as though the issue of child support was a source of contention for him. In many family murders, they often begin over issues like child support or custody. There doesn't seem to be any interest from him in maintaining contact with Anna. But the fact that he initially asked for custody, wanted parents to pay the support, and the immediate request to stop child support would suggest motive. Whether it was a motive for George, or Brody doesn't seem to be a question as even if it was Brody's motive, George would have most likely gone along with it. George paying the support would liimit Brody's access to that money.
Anna's mom did you ever meet Brody? If so could you give us your impression of him as a person, and anything you may observed personally as far as the interactions between Brody and George?
Also do you know of any financial transactions that George or Brody may have undertaken after Anna's disappearance? Investments, property purchases etc.
Also, did anyone ever check to see if George had ever taken out a life insurance policy on Anna?

Dr. Doogie
12-01-2005, 01:27 PM
It does sound as though the issue of child support was a source of contention for him. In many family murders, they often begin over issues like child support or custody. There doesn't seem to be any interest from him in maintaining contact with Anna. But the fact that he initially asked for custody, wanted parents to pay the support, and the immediate request to stop child support would suggest motive. Whether it was a motive for George, or Brody doesn't seem to be a question as even if it was Brody's motive, George would have most likely gone along with it. George paying the support would liimit Brody's access to that money. I agree - this could simply have been motivated by not wanting to pay child support. The safe deposit box that I found for Brody contained approximately $17,000 in cash - all in the name of a man who never worked a day in his life. It obviously was money that he had scammed from George Waters.


Also do you know of any financial transactions that George or Brody may have undertaken after Anna's disappearance? Investments, property purchases etc.
Also, did anyone ever check to see if George had ever taken out a life insurance policy on Anna? I do not know of any policies on Anna. If this were their motivation, then having Anna disappear would not have been to their advantage. It would have made more sense to have her body found so they could collect. Waters did take out several policies on himself, payable to Brody. I plan on following up on these to see if any payouts were made and to whom.

Marilynilpa
12-01-2005, 01:46 PM
That is a lot of money! If George Waters had that much money for Brody to scam off of him, that makes it even more despicable that Waters wanted to stop may child support payments so soon after Anna disappeared!

shadowangel
12-01-2005, 02:21 PM
Doc-Has the safe deposit box been unused all this time?

mysteriew
12-01-2005, 02:51 PM
I agree - this could simply have been motivated by not wanting to pay child support. The safe deposit box that I found for Brody contained approximately $17,000 in cash - all in the name of a man who never worked a day in his life. It obviously was money that he had scammed from George Waters.

If Brody was scamming George, he was likely also scamming others. Most likely women.


I do not know of any policies on Anna. If this were their motivation, then having Anna disappear would not have been to their advantage. It would have made more sense to have her body found so they could collect. Waters did take out several policies on himself, payable to Brody. I plan on following up on these to see if any payouts were made and to whom.

Who is to say they didn't collect. Or at least try. Perhaps it was just that they didn't think it through, thinking that after she disappeared it would be as easy to collect, as it was to get the child support stopped. Or maybe they planned on collecting, but then lost their nerve when they realized they were suspects. Since George had never made contact with Anna, they might have thought that LE would dismiss them as suspects, and they could later quietly arrange for her body to be found, and quietly collect. But when LE paid too much attention to them, that might have scared them off.

Brody had a way to meet his expenses through George. But he was saving money. I am thinking he was possibly saving for a purpose. Something that was going to require a large amount of money. It may have been something as simple as independence from George (esp. since he had George take out life insurance on himself and name Brody as beneficiary). But Brody was saving for something in particular.

Marilynilpa
12-01-2005, 03:56 PM
If Brody was scamming George, he was likely also scamming others. Most likely women.



Who is to say they didn't collect. Or at least try. Perhaps it was just that they didn't think it through, thinking that after she disappeared it would be as easy to collect, as it was to get the child support stopped. Or maybe they planned on collecting, but then lost their nerve when they realized they were suspects. Since George had never made contact with Anna, they might have thought that LE would dismiss them as suspects, and they could later quietly arrange for her body to be found, and quietly collect. But when LE paid too much attention to them, that might have scared them off.

Brody had a way to meet his expenses through George. But he was saving money. I am thinking he was possibly saving for a purpose. Something that was going to require a large amount of money. It may have been something as simple as independence from George (esp. since he had George take out life insurance on himself and name Brody as beneficiary). But Brody was saving for something in particular.
Perhaps Brody intended (with or without George) to take Anna abroad and start a new life where no one knew who she was. Is there any way to tell when Brody started accumulating the money, or whether he had that much at the time Anna disappeared? I know Dr. Doogie is trying to research financial records, so maybe he can find this out.

Annasmom
12-02-2005, 12:23 PM
It does sound as though the issue of child support was a source of contention for him. In many family murders, they often begin over issues like child support or custody. There doesn't seem to be any interest from him in maintaining contact with Anna. But the fact that he initially asked for custody, wanted parents to pay the support, and the immediate request to stop child support would suggest motive. Whether it was a motive for George, or Brody doesn't seem to be a question as even if it was Brody's motive, George would have most likely gone along with it. George paying the support would liimit Brody's access to that money.
Anna's mom did you ever meet Brody? If so could you give us your impression of him as a person, and anything you may observed personally as far as the interactions between Brody and George?
Also do you know of any financial transactions that George or Brody may have undertaken after Anna's disappearance? Investments, property purchases etc.
Also, did anyone ever check to see if George had ever taken out a life insurance policy on Anna?

I met Brody a number of times before Anna's father left the family. I was terrified of him and only consented to have him visit the house because he had such power over my poor husband. You have to remember in all this that Anna's father was in all probability schizophrenic (had, in fact, been diagnosed as such and was in treatment, though he was not cooperative) and that Brody himself was probably mentally ill as well. I tried for years to make sense of many of their senseless activities and was convinced finally that one couldn't make sense of nonsense. Because they were so secretive and because many documents and papers were destroyed, it's impossible to know whether he took out a life insurance policy on Anna.

shadowangel
12-02-2005, 12:35 PM
I met Brody a number of times before Anna's father left the family. I was terrified of him and only consented to have him visit the house because he had such power over my poor husband. You have to remember in all this that Anna's father was in all probability schizophrenic (had, in fact, been diagnosed as such and was in treatment, though he was not cooperative) and that Brody himself was probably mentally ill as well. I tried for years to make sense of many of their senseless activities and was convinced finally that one couldn't make sense of nonsense. Because they were so secretive and because many documents and papers were destroyed, it's impossible to know whether he took out a life insurance policy on Anna.
First I have to say something I've been remiss in up until now...Annasmom, you are an inspiration.
Knowing what you know about their activities, can you speculate on why Brody had such a large amount of cash hidden away?

bugaboo
12-02-2005, 01:47 PM
I have a feeling this guy was running from the law, and either assumed someone else's identity, or just made up one. It does appear he went to great lengths to make sure no one could track him down.

I find it impossible to believe Brody never held a job. Unless he was independently wealthy, he had to have worked at some point in his life.

I would think that during the prime working years of Brody's life, it would have been quite easy to take random jobs here and there, getting paid under the table.

Also, if he had some mental illness as well, maybe he had been in an institution or asylum for most of his youth/young adult life? Upon getting out, maybe he couldn't get a job, given the stigma of mental illness at the time.

Just a thought. Please correct me if I am wrong.

shadowangel
12-02-2005, 01:55 PM
Have records ever been checked to see if Brody was receiving some type of aid from the government?

laini
12-02-2005, 03:09 PM
Does anyone know how and/or where George and Brody first met?laini

Dr. Doogie
12-02-2005, 06:12 PM
When I say that Brody never held a job, perhaps what I should say is the man known as Brody never seems to have held a job under that name (at least, any job that would have created a paper trail). Because he held no social security number under that name (and one has been required to work since the 1930's), it would make sense that he never worked or recieved any government assistance checks under that name.

I have not been able yet to determine any history behind the safe deposit box and when it was last used. California unclaimed property law says that any box unpaid for after 3 years is considered abandoned and the contents are turned over to the State Controllers Office to be held for the owner or his heirs to claim. Brody's box was turned over to the state ten years after his death, but he may have paid for it years in advance, so until the bank can (or will) provide me with the records concerning the box, it remains a mystery.

Dr. Doogie
12-02-2005, 06:20 PM
If Brody was scamming George, he was likely also scamming others. Most likely women.
During my most recent conversation with Anna's step-father led to another revelation: By pure coincidence, one of the neighbors of Anna's parents knew of George Brody. Brody was also in the process of bringing a young women that the neighbor knew under his influence. Unfortunately, the neighbor is now deceased and I do not know if enough information still exists to track down the young woman.

(Some of the above info may be incorrect due to sketchy memories - I will confirm any or all of this with Annasmom and post any clarifications.)

Annasmom
12-02-2005, 08:35 PM
Does anyone know how and/or where George and Brody first met?laini

Waters treated Brody's girl friend, who had an incurable tumor and subsequently died. Brody was in all probability living off this woman, who had a number of small businesses under (no surprise) several different names.

Annasmom
12-02-2005, 08:37 PM
During my most recent conversation with Anna's step-father led to another revelation: By pure coincidence, one of the neighbors of Anna's parents knew of George Brody. Brody was also in the process of bringing a young women that the neighbor knew under his influence. Unfortunately, the neighbor is now deceased and I do not know if enough information still exists to track down the young woman.

(Some of the above info may be incorrect due to sketchy memories - I will confirm any or all of this with Annasmom and post any clarifications.)
Doogie, Brody lived with a woman, now deceased, in the apartment owned by a man we knew. But there was a young woman, Seka, who several years later he was trying to bring under his influence.

Annasmom
12-02-2005, 08:40 PM
First I have to say something I've been remiss in up until now...Annasmom, you are an inspiration.
Knowing what you know about their activities, can you speculate on why Brody had such a large amount of cash hidden away?
Thank you, shadowangel. No idea at all about the money, except that I suppose a person who was quite paranoid might imagine he'd need a lot of money...I was surprised at all the money he spent on clothes, since he lived in a seedy hotel.

shadowangel
12-02-2005, 09:03 PM
Thank you, shadowangel. No idea at all about the money, except that I suppose a person who was quite paranoid might imagine he'd need a lot of money...I was surprised at all the money he spent on clothes, since he lived in a seedy hotel.
Thank you for your strength and determination. :angel:
Lots of "front" cash, expensive clothes...Maybe he was running a much larger scam somewhere that has yet to come to light?

Dr. Doogie
12-05-2005, 10:44 PM
The more I look into this case, the more that I am convinced that George Brody is the "Rosetta Stone" that will unlock answers to Anna's disappearance. If he and George waters were not involved, it would be such a strange set of coincidences: that Annasmom would lose her husband to an odd con-man AND lose her daughter to a stranger abduction within a five year period. No, common sense tells me that the two events were related.

Brody, despite his paranoia has left little clues in his life and in his death: a birthdate of Aug. 15, 1923 (obviously false, but why that date instead of one that was more fitting of his true age?), that he was born in Mass. and was involved in politics, etc. Was there perhaps a real "George Brody" that these "facts" relate to? One thought that I have is to mail a pictue of George Brody to every household named Brody in Mass. to see if anyone recognizes him as a relative or an acquaintence. Any other suggestions are welcome.

My discussions with Anna's step-father have reinforced the level of paranoia that the two Georges lived every day of their later years with. They would not even step out of their hotel room without immediately beginning "evasive" manuvers to avoid being followed (doubling back without warning, making numerous turns in direction for no reason, etc.) What is humorous in a sick way is that they were being followed (The old joke: Just because your paranoid doesn't mean you aren't being watched). They also used several alias in their day-to-day business (Brody was also known as "George Bee", while Waters was registered at the hotel as "Walters".

In addition to the paranoia, the egomania of Brody is stunning: he often would wake Waters in the middle of the night to badger him about "Did you see how that waitress was looking at me? She wanted me." and other ridiculous diatribes. Waters was working three jobs as a doctor at various facilities, yet Brody would seemingly purposely deprive him of sleep to listen to his nonsense for hours on end.

Attached is another picture of Brody and Waters from around a year after Anna disappeared. You can see in it how Waters has adopted the same style of clothing as his mentor.



http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/drdoogief/detail?.dir=aac9&.dnm=a9dfscd.jpg

LButler
12-06-2005, 10:58 AM
What a strange and sad story. I've read through most of the posts here and I think that "George Brody" was a very intelligent, but a very manipulative man. I think he was the type that could spot a weakness in someone very quickly and then prey upon that weakness to his advantage. George Waters was obviously mentally ill and paranoid and Brody played that to perfection. I think Brody probably had a very clear mind throughout his life, but played a good game, to a degree.

I have just some random thoughts that may mean nothing:

Could the name change for Anna have created a loophole for them to obtain some type of legal documentation (birth cert...) to "adopt" her out to someone once they abducted her? Is there any way to know if legal papers for her were ever requested by anyone prior to her disappearance? My guess is that Brody had played this loophole before (maybe more than once) to change his identity.

I think Brody possibly wanted "rid of Anna" for 2 reasons: George could stop his child support payments and there would be more money for Brody to bleed from him

AND, I think it's possible that Waters, even though mentally ill, possibly had a soft spot for his little girl. I think by removing Anna from the picture, Brody could "own" George completely.

As sick and weird as these 2 were, I can't see them killing Anna. I don't have any evidence to back that up - it's just my interpretation of the events as posted here. Even though they were strange by anyone's standards, there appeared to be no violence and George was a doctor - a caregiver.

Annasmom ...what a burden you have had to carry all these years. I believe your rewards will be huge at some point in the future!!

Dr. Doogie
12-06-2005, 01:16 PM
Another interesting thing about George Brody that came out of my discussion with Anna's step-father: both Brody and George Waters were basically emotionally weak. What he meant by that was that if they were ever confronted face to face, they would have cowered and basically run away. Because of this, it is his opinion that if they were involved with Anna's disappearance, they would most likely have had someone else actually do the abduction, either by hire or by manipulation.

Dr. Doogie
12-06-2005, 01:25 PM
As sick and weird as these 2 were, I can't see them killing Anna. I don't have any evidence to back that up - it's just my interpretation of the events as posted here. Even though they were strange by anyone's standards, there appeared to be no violence and George was a doctor - a caregiver.
I agree. However, there was one very disturbing part of this story that I have not posted: Brody used to refer to Anna as "the Tot". When Anna's step-father was listening in to conversations between the two Georges in their hotel room, Waters was overheard to say, "I am glad the Tot is dead". This could have been in reference to Anna, but also could have been refering to another child or could have meant that they were not involved and they assumed that Anna was dead based on her disappearance.

Mr. E
12-06-2005, 09:06 PM
Waters was overheard to say, "I am glad the Tot is dead" Chilling. This is her father saying this?

Dr. Doogie
12-07-2005, 03:03 PM
Chilling. This is her father saying this?
Yes, it was the father that said that. Keep in mind that this was heard on an electronic listening device through a wall and the context of the statement was undecipherable. This statement was made some time after Anna's disappearance and could have been in reference to anything (something on TV, etc.)

Dr. Doogie
12-08-2005, 03:23 PM
If Anna was taken by a stranger, here are some possibly related disappearances (all nearby in location and/or time frame):

A miising 17 year old boy, last seen hitchhiking within a few miles of where Anna disappeared - http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/b/bonick_peter.html

A six year old girl disappeared three months after Anna within 50 miles - http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/d/davenport_tracy.html

A five year old girl disappeared a little more than a year after Anna within 40 miles - http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/s/sumpter_cynthia.html

I have not been able to locate any obvious possible matches concerning any unidentified Jane Does in the general area that Anna disappeared. Someone out there may be able to do a search of those and let us know.

mjak
12-08-2005, 05:52 PM
Did I read this correctly?? They have six year old Tracy Lynn Davenport listed in some places as a runaway?? A 6 year old Runaway? The cindy Sumtner dissappearnce does have some similarites to Anna's dissapearence. Have the wearabouts of either of the suspects in the sumtner case when Anna dissapeared ever been checked into?

mjak

Dr. Doogie
12-08-2005, 07:40 PM
Did I read this correctly?? They have six year old Tracy Lynn Davenport listed in some places as a runaway?? A 6 year old Runaway?
I wondered the same thing - a six year old who runs away goes around the block until dinner time, then comes home. Perhaps, she was doing just that when she was abducted (if she was), but I cannot see any way that this is a "runaway" case.

meggilyweggily
12-11-2005, 09:13 AM
Did I read this correctly?? They have six year old Tracy Lynn Davenport listed in some places as a runaway?? A 6 year old Runaway?
I've seen several very young children listed as runaways. Scott Echols is one, and Jose Pereira. Scott might actually have made it -- he strikes me as a streetwise child. Don't know about about Tracy and Jose's cases to tell, but I've seen them classified as runaways some places.

Dr. Doogie
12-16-2005, 05:52 PM
In the years that the search for Anna have occured, there has never been any clues that she is either dead or alive - no paper trails, no sightings, no possible Jane Does found. We are continuing the search under the premise that she is alive and out there to be found - not because we have any evidence to that fact, but out of faith.

One question that needs to be faced: why has she not tried to find her family. Since she disappeared at age five, she must have some memories of her mother, stepfather and brothers. It is possible that she would have been told some cover story of why she was living with someone else. Perhaps she was told that her family had died or that they had done something to her so horrible that it would cause her to not want to find them. (Similarly, why did Sharon Marshall not try and find her family after she became an adult?) If her father was involved with her disappearance, he and Brody were certainly capable of concocting a horror story that would continue to influence her to this day.

Attached are several age-progressed pictures of what Anna may look like in recent years:

Age 25: http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/drdoogief/detail?.dir=aac9&.dnm=5fafscd.jpg&.src=ph

Age 31: http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/drdoogief/detail?.dir=aac9&.dnm=2700scd.jpg&.src=ph

Age 35: http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/drdoogief/detail?.dir=aac9&.dnm=f803scd.jpg&.src=ph

These pictures are from the NCMEC. Annasmom also felt that the pictures were not the best representation of how Anna would look today, so she has made some alterations as attached: http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/drdoogief/detail?.dir=aac9&.dnm=f193scd.jpg&.src=ph

shadowangel
12-16-2005, 08:04 PM
Several theories have been put forth as to why kidnapped children do not attempt to escape or contact family members. I have become very familiar with these theories and concepts in my research into the life of the young lady we know as Sharon Marshall.

Children are by nature very trusting, dependant, and much more resilient than we as adults give them credit for. The pedophiles who kidnap children understand these concepts and make the most of them. Thus it is that they either live far removed from other people (Steven Stayner) or move constantly (Sharon Marshall). This isolates the children, forcing a dependence on the kidnapper. The kidnappers use all manner of pyschological tactics on the children to enforce this dependence-lavishing them with gifts and praise, then withholding any affection, for instance. The children, as a defense mechanism, suppress any thoughts of their prior life.
The kidnapper may threaten the lives of the child's loved ones, telling the children that if they attempt to leave or contact anyone they (the children) wll be responsible for what happens to their family-often going into graphic detail as to what will be done, constantly reinforcing the notion it will be the child's fault.
Further, the kidnapper may shame the child into a complete mental withdrawal from any thoughts of their prior lives. The child may begin to believe that the kidnapping (and any ensuing abuse) is their fault, and that their family will be ashamed of them for what has occured. The kidnapper will reinforce the thoughts of pain the family has suffered because of what the child has done, and that the pain will only be greater if the child returns to the family. The child may grow to believe the family does not want any contact from them.
These monsters who kidnap children will use any form of mental and physical torture at their disposal to keep the child in line.

mysteriew
12-17-2005, 09:57 AM
I noticed with Steven Staynor, almost an apathy. He wouldn't make the break with Parnell to save himself. He only went to LE to save Timmy.
By the time these kids get older, they are often very distrustful of people. They have had to be so secretive most of their lives so that is second nature to them, and the very person they have to rely on has hurt them. It is almost like they feel better the h*!! they know, than a new h*!!. Also, their self esteem is so low that they feel no one would want them back.

shadowangel
12-17-2005, 10:23 AM
The children tend to lose their own identity, to become someone else in effect as a survival mechanism. One has to wonder if they can ever recover to any level as to have a productive life. Though I'm alone in my opinion, I believe the tragic end to Steven's story wasn't just coincidence.

mysteriew
12-17-2005, 10:55 AM
The children tend to lose their own identity, to become someone else in effect as a survival mechanism. One has to wonder if they can ever recover to any level as to have a productive life. Though I'm alone in my opinion, I believe the tragic end to Steven's story wasn't just coincidence.
You aren't alone.
Many disbelieve Johnny Gotch's mother, in her story about the visit from Johnny. But if you look at the Gotch case in the same context as Steven and Sharon..........well, it makes me wonder if it wasn't true.

shadowangel
12-17-2005, 10:59 AM
I've wondered if maybe he did visit, and gave the story he did to explain his absence and why he couldn't bring himself to stay...Maybe it was a fantasy he created in his own mind to explain the years of pain and loss and why he felt completely separated from his old life.

mysteriew
12-17-2005, 11:08 AM
I've wondered if maybe he did visit, and gave the story he did to explain his absence and why he couldn't bring himself to stay...Maybe it was a fantasy he created in his own mind to explain the years of pain and loss and why he felt completely separated from his old life.

I don't know, I tend to believe a lot of the prostitution ring story. There have been other similiar rings found, and whispers of still others. I don't believe that the ring was set up by the government, but I believe that it may have had some high level persons. And the story of the government organization sounds like it may have been something concocted as a response to a child who threatens to go to LE. With knowlege of some high level persons being involved, it would make the threat very believable to a child, or an abused adult.

shadowangel
12-17-2005, 11:17 AM
I'm just naturally skeptical of conspiracies, I know there is enough evil in the individual heart to make conspiracies unnecessary. That, of course, doesn't change the possibility. I've just been curious as to why people are so quick to discount his reappearance based soley on the prostitution ring story. That may have been a fiction, but does that mean that such things can't happen? That a missing child, like Anna for example, couldn't show up one day in an attempt to reconnect to a nearly forgotten past?

mysteriew
12-17-2005, 11:29 AM
Did you see the bust the FBI made yesterday? It is in Crimes in the News. Thought you might be interested in it.

shadowangel
12-17-2005, 11:22 PM
I did see it. I'm certainly not discounting that such things exist. If anyone can believe the worst of humanity, it would be me....

I just don't understand why people who can't believe such things still can't believe that Jonny may have returned to his home at some point.

Dr. Doogie
12-22-2005, 01:14 PM
I did a search on the supposed birthday of George Brody of Aug. 15, 1923 to see if a Brody was born on that day. No luck, but as a completely useless bit of trivia, Rose Marie ("Sally" of the old Dick Van Dyke Show) was born on that day. And didn't she work for "Allen Brady"? MMM...Brady...Brody... Okay, so maybe I am getting dingy from too much research...

shadowangel
12-22-2005, 01:29 PM
I did a search on the supposed birthday of George Brody of Aug. 15, 1923 to see if a Brody was born on that day. No luck, but as a completely useless bit of trivia, Rose Marie ("Sally" of the old Dick Van Dyke Show) was born on that day. And didn't she work for "Allen Brady"? MMM...Brady...Brody... Okay, so maybe I am getting dingy from too much research...Hey, look at my tie between "Brody" and Anton LeVey! We need to go for a beer someday...:angel:

meggilyweggily
12-23-2005, 01:36 AM
I don't think it's at all unbelievable that Anna would not contact her family nowadays, if she is alive. She may not know how to -- may not remember her last name, etc. And she may simply not realize how serious this is to her family, and she doesn't want her life disrupted, so she figures she'll just keep her head down.

LButler
12-23-2005, 10:47 AM
I think that a child in that situation would have been told a story that would remain airtight unless something popped up that made her question things.

For example, what if as "Anna" aged, whoever had her "created" parents for her. Maybe they gave her names (not the correct ones, of course), told her these parents died, showed her the graves.... it would be very easy to concoct a story like this and if they chose "parents" out of the area where they were living, it's unlikely she would ever hear a different story.

I don't ever think that these missing children should be assumed dead because they don't try to contact family after they mature. I just think that a kid in this situation would have been told so many lies, it would take alot of time to find out the truth and pursue it.

PonderingThings
12-24-2005, 07:57 PM
I was playing around with the name "Eifee" to see what I could google.... then I thought, since Anna is a "mirror image" name, what if I searched for Eefie.

Interestingly enough its the name of an organization for Greek Medical Students! http://www.uoi.gr/students/eefie/english/profile.html

Only because the father was a doctor am I mentioning it. I know its a big reach, but is there any possibility that there is a connection?

Personally I don't believe its a nonesensical name... there was a reason for selecting it, as other names could have added up to the same value and not be so "different". You said they were paranoid... perhaps they hid it in plain sight?

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/smilies/confused.gif

Dr. Doogie
12-24-2005, 11:43 PM
I was playing around with the name "Eifee" to see what I could google.... then I thought, since Anna is a "mirror image" name, what if I searched for Eefie.

Interestingly enough its the name of an organization for Greek Medical Students! http://www.uoi.gr/students/eefie/english/profile.html

Only because the father was a doctor am I mentioning it. I know its a big reach, but is there any possibility that there is a connection?

Personally I don't believe its a nonesensical name... there was a reason for selecting it, as other names could have added up to the same value and not be so "different". You said they were paranoid... perhaps they hid it in plain sight?

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/smilies/confused.gif
HOLY CR*P!!! You may have stumbled on something here, Pondering! Annasmom and Waters met while he was studying medicine in Greece. Both were living in Greece at the time and he returned there at least once after they were married for further schooling. I do not know what this means, but you may have solved the mystery of the name "Eifee". I will let Annasmom know about this and get her reaction. Thanks for the sleuthing!

Dr. Doogie
12-24-2005, 11:51 PM
EEFIE is an Greek association for medical students that was formed in 1993, thirty years after Waters studied medicine there. It is the translation from Greek for the initials that make up the organizations name, so it is unlikely that it has any significance to the case, but what a wierd coincidence. Nice try, Pondering. We need new ideas such as yours to help break the logjam. Thank you and keep trying!

mysteriew
12-25-2005, 12:17 AM
Dr. Doogie is there any Amsterdam connections?
A poster from there using the nic of eefie
http://www.musician.nl/phpbb/bb_profile.php?mode=view&user=1748

Never mind, too young.

PonderingThings
12-25-2005, 07:18 AM
I'm sorry for the roller coaster Dr. Doogie. I never thought to check out the year formed! http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/smilies/doh.gif

Thanks for the effort on behalf of the family... if I come up with anything else I'll let you know. http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/smilies/redface.gif

PonderingThings
12-25-2005, 10:19 AM
Dr. Doogie have you ever tried using google books http://books.google.ca for a reference on the name Eifee?

I tried it and the word seems to pop up in German? and Dutch? literature.

I also did the mirror image of the name Eefie and a pharmocology book popped up. Also, I found this listing interesting.... Although I don't believe the author is Anna. (by the way I believe the word cabled is a typo and should be called)

Our Times, Our Lives (http://books.google.ca/books?ie=UTF-8&hl=en&id=nfIH8wASdnQC&pg=PA210&lpg=PA210&dq=eefie&prev=http://books.google.ca/books%3Flr%3D%26q%3Deefie&sig=rLqToMUokPKE5MAD33l8FbZz1DU)
by Eve Otto - 2004 - 640 pages
Page 210 - All through my childhood years I was cabled Eefie. Both my parents came from Amsterdam. My father, Johannes Jansen, was born July 14, 1895 and was the son ...

PonderingThings
12-25-2005, 11:19 AM
Again, while searching on the name Eifee I came across this restaurant menu:

http://www.footprintseco-resort.com/cocoahousemenu.html

Bolle Eifee Beef

The Tobagonian term for a homemade lamp made from a bottle filled with pitch-oil and a cloth wick, this spicy beef dish might make you think your tongue is aflame! Tender beef strips simmered in a hot and sweet pepper sauce.


Is there possibly a Tobagonian connection?



Also there apparently was a band called Eifee 65, in 2000. You can find them listed here:
http://www.newmassmedia.com/summermusic00/newv.html

PonderingThings
12-26-2005, 06:09 AM
I removed this post and will send it to Dr. Doogie in a private message.

mysteriew
12-26-2005, 06:33 AM
I don't know, Ponderingthings. That is pretty out there ever for a schizophrenic. That would mean that they had planned this quite a number of years ahead, waited, and while they waited they asked to have the name added to her name. So instead of trying to hide it, they put it right out there. Schizophrenics are usually more secretive than that.

PonderingThings
12-26-2005, 06:54 AM
I hear you Mysterview but then Anna's father was very intelligent and was functional (he was working 3 jobs), and Brody managed to have a strong hold over two of his followers - the woman and Anna's dad - that takes cunning.

I admit its a stretch... but since its now almost 30 years later I figure that the non stretches have been exhausted. Perhaps I'm wrong?

By the way I am working on the date she disappeared as well. Perhaps there is a reason why they waited so long? That particular date was important?

...of course this all assumes that they were involved, they might not have been....

shadowangel
12-26-2005, 12:26 PM
I found a George Brody, with a date of birth of "about 1896". this would have put him at around 70 at the time of Anna's disappearance, which seems a little more consistent with the photo. This person was an immigrant from Czechloslovakia, having immigrated to the US in 1913. He was living in a boarding house in Chicago in 1930, with his occupation listed as "laborer". This might explain the lack of a verifiable past for Brody. I have also found references to the name "Eifee" as both a first and last name in eastern Europe and Russia.

Just thinking out loud again.

Dr. Doogie
12-26-2005, 03:52 PM
Amstrerdam and Denmark have come up a few times when researching "eifee" and now "eefie". There is a person who used eifee@hotmail.com named Asye Fatma who lives in Denmark. This created a brief period of investigation because "Ayse Fatma" appears to be a Turkish name and one of the family friends who was at the ranch shortly after Anna disppeared was a Turkish man with the first name of "Asya". However, this was nothing more than a coincidence and Annasmom has confirmed that there is no way that the man could have had any connection to the disappearance.

However, the prevailance of "Eifee" and "Eefie" showing up on Danish website leads me to believe that Brody may well have been of Danish heritage. It is something worthy of followup investigation.

If anyone comes up with uses of either "Eifee" or "Eefie" on a site that is in Danish, please forward the link. The private investigator who is involved in this case studied several years in Amsterdam and is fluent in Danish, so he can review the sites and see if he can find any connection.

Thanks to everyone who is spending time doing research on this case. You will never know how grateful the family and I are.

Dr. Doogie
12-26-2005, 03:59 PM
I found a George Brody, with a date of birth of "about 1896". this would have put him at around 70 at the time of Anna's disappearance, which seems a little more consistent with the photo. This person was an immigrant from Czechloslovakia, having immigrated to the US in 1913. He was living in a boarding house in Chicago in 1930, with his occupation listed as "laborer". This might explain the lack of a verifiable past for Brody. I have also found references to the name "Eifee" as both a first and last name in eastern Europe and Russia.

Just thinking out loud again.
Thanks, Shadowangel. It is possible that this may be the same man. It is also possible that this is the Brody that the man we know as Brody stole his identity. If you could forward the details of where you found this info via private message, I will follow up on it and see if we can trace this man's history any farther and maybe get some answers.

Dr. Doogie
12-26-2005, 04:07 PM
Dr. Doogie is there any Amsterdam connections?
A poster from there using the nic of eefie
http://www.musician.nl/phpbb/bb_profile.php?mode=view&user=1748

Never mind, too young.In what little I could decipher from this site (it is in danish), it does look like the poster is probably of school age, thus too young. However, one thing that did intrigue me was the connection to music. Annasmom is a retired college-level piano teacher and Anna's two half-brothers are both accomplished musicians in their own right. If musical talent is hereditary, then it is quite possible that Anna may too be a musician.

mysteriew
12-26-2005, 04:29 PM
In what little I could decipher from this site (it is in danish), it does look like the poster is probably of school age, thus too young. However, one thing that did intrigue me was the connection to music. Annasmom is a retired college-level piano teacher and Anna's two half-brothers are both accomplished musicians in their own right. If musical talent is hereditary, then it is quite possible that Anna may too be a musician.
If you notice the homepage on that link, you go to this site

http://www.cu2.nl/Eve-Bond-007

At the top of the page is some links which leads to photos-

http://www.dance-photos.nl/?page=alando

The photo that caught my eye is about half way down the page, three girls together,two are blonde.
Don't know if it means anything or not, but I wondered if the person whose site it is, is that young or if she is maybe a older groupie.

PonderingThings
12-27-2005, 11:19 PM
Dr. Doogie I sent you a few more PMs....

Annasmom
01-01-2006, 03:12 PM
I found a George Brody, with a date of birth of "about 1896". this would have put him at around 70 at the time of Anna's disappearance, which seems a little more consistent with the photo. This person was an immigrant from Czechloslovakia, having immigrated to the US in 1913. He was living in a boarding house in Chicago in 1930, with his occupation listed as "laborer". This might explain the lack of a verifiable past for Brody. I have also found references to the name "Eifee" as both a first and last name in eastern Europe and Russia.

Just thinking out loud again.

Shadowangel: This is fascinating. Surely the name George Brody must have been assumed, then; it doesn't sound like a Czech name.

PonderingThings
01-01-2006, 03:22 PM
Annasmom did Dr. Doogie show you a "specific" photo I sent via PM?

shadowangel
01-01-2006, 03:26 PM
Shadowangel: This is fascinating. Surely the name George Brody must have been assumed, then; it doesn't sound like a Czech name.
I agree totally. Most likely an "Americanization" of a Czech name, as many Italian immigrants did during the same period. I found quite a few "Brody"s who immigrated near the turn of the century, but this was the most promising going by date.

Annasmom
01-01-2006, 06:36 PM
Annasmom did Dr. Doogie show you a "specific" photo I sent via PM? Not yet. I'd like to see it. Can you send it to me?

PonderingThings
01-01-2006, 07:26 PM
Annasmom I sent you a PM.

Edited to add: To retrieve it, go to the top, right hand corner of the screen and click on the link "private messages".

mysteriew
01-02-2006, 12:53 AM
Did you ever notice anything odd about Brody's speech? Any accent, maybe used the words incorrectly as far as the tense used, or even using a higher 'class' of words such as you might find in someone who studied a dictionary, who seemed unfamiliar with the idioms common in the English language? Or even could have had a trace of a British accent.
Most people who learn English as a second language, will show some signs of it. Not all, but most.

Annasmom
01-02-2006, 01:16 PM
Did you ever notice anything odd about Brody's speech? Any accent, maybe used the words incorrectly as far as the tense used, or even using a higher 'class' of words such as you might find in someone who studied a dictionary, who seemed unfamiliar with the idioms common in the English language? Or even could have had a trace of a British accent.
Most people who learn English as a second language, will show some signs of it. Not all, but most.

Mysteriew: His speech patterns were certainly strange, though I couldn't detect any accent that I recall except "east coast". He coined lots of words and mispronounced words which he had probably seen written but not spoken, such as "Akashic" (A-kay-shik is how he pronounced it.) I have a pretty good vocabulary, but some words he used were unfamiliar to me, such as "emanuensis". I think you must be on to something to ask such a pertinent question.

Annasmom
01-02-2006, 01:22 PM
Something very odd came up this week. Anna's brother remembered something which had happened about a month before she disappeared. The three children were out for a walk on the country road in front of our house and were only a little distance away from the house when a sedan stopped in the middle of the road and a man and a woman in the car tried to get Anna to get in the car. When she and her brothers refused, the car drove away. "It was really strange," he said. I asked if he had ever told the investigators about this memory, and he couldn't recall whether he had or not. Certainly I never heard this story before.

PonderingThings
01-02-2006, 01:33 PM
Wow Annasmom that is interesting! Thank you for sharing that info!

It is possible he's incorporated it as part of his memories as children sometimes do. They hear people talking about things, like possibilities, then in their mind it becomes real, and when they grow up it becomes a memory.

Or it could have really happened, exactly as he says!

I wonder if he were hypnotised if he could describe the couple to an artist (or have the session recorded and have an artist later draw his recollection).

As you know, I have the tendency to believe Anna is alive somewhere, although I truly have nothing to base that theory on. Perhaps she was kidnapped, to be raised as an "adopted daughter"? There are some desperate people out there, and they do unexpected things!

PonderingThings
01-02-2006, 02:13 PM
I have an idea... but I really don't know if its an "acceptable" approach, perhaps Kelly would have an opinion.

Perhaps an email could be sent to anyone, who has a published email, with the name Waters saying something like:

Subject: Have you seen her?

"You have been contacted because you share a similiar name to a child that went missing, in 1973, when she was 5 years old.

Her name is Anna Christian Waters, and she would be 38 years old now.

Please take a moment to see her missing poster from the Missing and Exploited Children's Website, it includes an age progessed photograph of what Anna may look like today http://www.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/PubCaseSearchServlet?act=viewPoster&caseNum=601935&orgPrefix=NCMC&searchLang=en_US

Have you ever met someone that you think is Anna?

If so, please contact National Center for Missing & Exploited Children
1-800-843-5678 (1-800-THE-LOST)

Thank you"

More people would click on a link, instead of an attached file, plus it promotes credibility. Since the people that would receive the email have the same family name, perhaps they would be more inclined to look at the poster and remember her? Since email is an international registery, perhaps someone happens to live geographically close to Anna and would recognize the photo, even if they don't recognise the name?

I do realise its a vvveeeeerrrrrryyyyyy long longshot that Anna was raised with her given name... but it is possible that her birth records were provided when she was "adopted out" (doctors arranged all kinds of adoptions back then-not all of them legit) and someone would recognise the name?

Don't know.....

If this was done, it would have to be issued from one central set of records so that someone didn't get "spammed" by different, well intentioned people.

Kelly
01-02-2006, 04:55 PM
I know little about Anna's case.

Question: How would you get an email list of people with the same last name?

I think an email would be better received to people you know with a mystery angle. People like intrigue and mystery. Approach it as "30+ Year-Old Mystery Begs Attention" or something like that.

I will post Anna's case on my forum later this evening.

Kelly

PonderingThings
01-02-2006, 05:06 PM
Thanks for coming here Kelly, I do appreciate your input.

I was using the Waters name as I'm guessing it would not be viewed as unsolicited mail by most people. Unsolicited mail - spam - makes people VERY angry!

As to finding the email addresses... they would have to be found, over the internet. I would not suggest buying lists. It would be time consuming but I'm sure someone would be interested in making the attempt?

I like your suggestion Kelly... kinda like, you tell 2 friends, and they tell 2 friends, and so on, and so on.

BUT NOT A CHAIN LETTER!

I do envision false leads being generated as well. Is the family "up" for that?

Of course there is ALWAYS the possibility that just one person would be reached... the person who knows what happened to her!

Kelly
01-02-2006, 10:10 PM
I don't know how you would get an email list of people with a certain last name without buying it. My maiden name is much more common, like Waters. If someone sent me an unsolicited based upon my last name, I would not be happy. You are better off trying to circulate an email among friends/acquantainces/relatives.

Leads should ALWAYS go to LE or a valid org who accepts leads, such as NCMA. I'm not sure if DOE takes leads or not. The family needs to be out of that loop because it can wreak havoc on their physche having to go through the ups and downs of lead verification. It is better if LE tells them after validity has been determined and family knowledge will not hinder the investigation.

I hope this helps.

Kelly

Kelly
01-02-2006, 10:19 PM
Question: Was the NCMEC age progression done using photos of Anna's biological parents taken at that age or close? (36)

To Anna's family: I am sorry you have had to endure this loss for all of these years. I write a blog about missing persons and would be interested in doing her story. Please write me at kelly.jolkowski@projectjason.org if you are interested.

Kelly

Dr. Doogie
01-03-2006, 11:27 AM
I have an idea... but I really don't know if its an "acceptable" approach, perhaps Kelly would have an opinion.

Perhaps an email could be sent to anyone, who has a published email, with the name Waters saying something like:...I have sent an email worded pretty close to what you suggested to every "Anna Waters" that I could find an email for - no response from any of them. The only one I did get a response from was one who I really persued strongly - one with the same birth year and a picture that closely resembled the age-progressed pictures of Anna. It turned out that she was not her.

Sending an email to people named "Waters" would probably not be of value because she would not have been kept by any of George Waters' family. His family has been very supportive of Annasmom, even when he was alive. They are as concerned and confused about what happened to Anna as anyone.

Publicity about the case would be good (if managed properly). That is why I started this forum in the first place. However, spreading the story by email is fraught with dangers - even if the first receipients of the email were spefically chosen because of their concern for cases such as this, it wouldn't take long before people altered certain details and names until the message would be lost (Anybody remember the little boy dying of cancer who wanted to receive a world record number of get-well cards. Well, he got better and is alive twenty years later, yet emails still circulate with several different names listed and the Make-A-Wish Foundation is begging people to stop sending cards because they cannot handle the load).

Dr. Doogie
01-03-2006, 01:14 PM
Something very odd came up this week. Anna's brother remembered something which had happened about a month before she disappeared. The three children were out for a walk on the country road in front of our house and were only a little distance away from the house when a sedan stopped in the middle of the road and a man and a woman in the car tried to get Anna to get in the car. When she and her brothers refused, the car drove away. "It was really strange," he said. I asked if he had ever told the investigators about this memory, and he couldn't recall whether he had or not. Certainly I never heard this story before.
Let me put this revelation into perspective: This is the first direct clue that Anna was the target of an abduction. More to the point, it was by a couple (not a lone male predator), so the possibility that she was raised by this couple and could still be alive and out there to be found is greatly increased. This is very exciting!

Annasmom
01-03-2006, 04:10 PM
Question: Was the NCMEC age progression done using photos of Anna's biological parents taken at that age or close? (36)

To Anna's family: I am sorry you have had to endure this loss for all of these years. I write a blog about missing persons and would be interested in doing her story. Please write me at kelly.jolkowski@projectjason.org if you are interested.

Kelly

Kelly,
The most recent NCMEC age progression used pictures of both parents at about age 35 and also consulted photos of Anna's brothers. Over the years, their age-progression program has become better and better; some of the early ones didn't really look like anyone I would recognize. Regarding the blog, at the moment I am concentrating hard on a book-length manuscript, but once I get that finished, I'd be very grateful to be included in your words. Thank you for your interest.

PonderingThings
01-03-2006, 04:26 PM
Good point about the email campaign Dr. Doogie.

Dr. Doogie
01-03-2006, 04:43 PM
Good point about the email campaign Dr. Doogie.
I hope that I am not being a "wet blanket" and too quickly dismiss ideas that people have suggested. This is obviously new territory for Anna's family and myself, and I do not want to discourage people from tossing out new ideas, even ones that at the time seem "crazy". Please keep the suggestions coming and one of those crazy ideas may just be the key to solving this case.

PonderingThings
01-03-2006, 05:04 PM
I, for one, have found both you Dr. Doogie, and Anna's Mom to be VERY open to receiving information and ideas.

My only concern is sometimes providing something that might upset the family - as in the emotional hi-low roller coaster. I believe you've all been through enough! There is that saying: "The road to hell is paved with good intentions". I hope I'm not sending anyone down that road just because my efforts are well intentioned.

In the case of the email idea, it was posted purposely to get feedback. Not every idea is a good one. Sometimes one idea generates a different or modified idea that is far superior. That's what brainstorming is all about!

Just my opinion though.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/smilies/blowkises.gif to Anna's family and friends.

Dr. Doogie
01-03-2006, 05:16 PM
My only concern is sometimes providing something that might upset the family - as in the emotional hi-low roller coaster. I believe you've all been through enough! There is that saying: "The road to hell is paved with good intentions". I hope I'm not sending anyone down that road just because my efforts are well intentioned.
Pondering:

I had the same concerns when I first contacted Annasmom back when I felt that Anna could have been Sharon Marshall. It had been a few years since we had been in contact and I wasn't sure how the reaction would be to "reopening old wounds". Annasmom explained that the wounds never heal, so reopening them is not an issue. Annasmom has been absolutely amazed and grateful for the level of interest on this forum. Courtesy and sensitivity should always be our guideline for conduct, but do not fear the emotional roller coaster - we may go up and down, but we are also moving forward!

Annasmom
01-03-2006, 07:42 PM
I know little about Anna's case.

Question: How would you get an email list of people with the same last name?

I think an email would be better received to people you know with a mystery angle. People like intrigue and mystery. Approach it as "30+ Year-Old Mystery Begs Attention" or something like that.

I will post Anna's case on my forum later this evening.

Kelly
Kelly, I just looked at some of your pages and want you to know that my heart is with you. You are creating words and images of consolation and beauty for other people. I hope that this good work provides some consolation for you as well.

Kelly
01-03-2006, 08:15 PM
Thanks, Annasmom.

Yes, I would say that in doing my work, I receive some healing, too.

Thank you for the answer about the age progression. I have run into quite a few when they do not attempt to get the info that will produce the best results.

I would love to feature Anna's story on the blog whenever you are ready. Please keep my email in your file.

If anyone in the family is an activist, please also point them to my Campaign for the Missing 2006 on the blog. We need more family members helping with this.

With Hope Always,
Kelly

Dr. Doogie
01-04-2006, 01:45 PM
With the new information concerning possible abduction by a couple, this increases the possibility that Anna is alive and perhaps searching for her birth parents. This means that adoption reunion sites need to be researched for possible matches. I have found one site that shows an adoptee with the correct birthday in San Francisco whom I have sent an email for further information, but this was listed on the only one site that I have been able to research.

If anyone out there wants to help persue this, be aware that I have been posting Anna's info at these sites. You may find what appears to be an exact match, but it was posted by me, not an adoptee. If you see a "posted by" name of Doug French, it is one of my posts.

mysteriew
01-04-2006, 06:04 PM
She went to school somewhere. Anyone members at classmate.com or reunion.com?

PonderingThings
01-04-2006, 06:10 PM
Question: If Anna was abducted, by strangers, would they use her real birthday?

If she was adopted by someone, who had contact with a non stranger in Anna's life, who used her real birth certificate in the adoption process, I'd say yes.... maybe.

But strangers? No.

Dr. Doogie
01-04-2006, 06:36 PM
Question: If Anna was abducted, by strangers, would they use her real birthday?

If she was adopted by someone, who had contact with a non stranger in Anna's life, who used her real birth certificate in the adoption process, I'd say yes.... maybe.

But strangers? No.
Your analysis is correct - it would require her to be raised by someone who had knowledge of her correct birthday (an aquaintance of George Waters perhaps?)

The chances of this adoptee being Anna are slim, but at a time when we are looking for Anna who was born 9/25/67 in San Francisco, there is a woman born 9/25/67 in San Francisco looking for her birth-parents. The eye and hair color listed on the profile match (brown/brown) and she lists the "adoption date" and "decree date" as "not available". This would fit with an illegal "adoption" - though to be fair, there are other, less sinister reason for it not being available. All-in-all, it is something that is worth looking in to, if for no other reason than to eliminate the possibility.

Dr. Doogie
01-04-2006, 06:48 PM
She went to school somewhere. Anyone members at classmate.com or reunion.com?
We really do think alike!

I had checked both sites for "Anna Waters" and did find one potential match based on name, age and a close resemblence to the age-progressed photos. I spent a couple months hunting her down and generally being a pest until she responded that she was not our Anna (the data that she provided showed that she was being truthful).

It may well be that Anna is listed on those sites under a different name, but until we know what that name is, we are kinda stuck on this track.

PonderingThings
01-04-2006, 06:48 PM
I came across a posting on Cyberpages just a few days ago where a woman was looking for siblings. Since this has nothing to do with Anna I'm posting it as a reference only. It happened in 1961 and there were various siblings adopted on a "non official" basis.

Perhaps those are the kind of posts to be looking out for, if it matches the 1973-1974 date range?

mysteriew
01-04-2006, 07:23 PM
Is anyone a member at craigslist.com? They have gotten pretty popular in some areas. How about posting her there?

mysteriew
01-04-2006, 07:52 PM
missingusa.net
http://members.boardhost.com/BellCo/

Anna's Mom, I hope you don't mind. Because of the possibility of the George's being involved in her disappearance- I included the name Eifee. With their insistance on giving her the name, I just felt that if they were involved in the disappearance, it may have stuck with her.

mysteriew
01-05-2006, 03:55 AM
Dr. Doogie here is an international site. I don't have Anna's picture on file so didn't post it here. But it wouldn't hurt to do so.

http://www.wmco.org/report/engelsrep.html

mysteriew
01-05-2006, 04:45 AM
This question may have been asked before, but has Anna's mom had her DNA added to the FBI database, for use in comparision to UID's?

Dr. Doogie
01-05-2006, 08:16 PM
This question may have been asked before, but has Anna's mom had her DNA added to the FBI database, for use in comparision to UID's?
I do not believe so. One problem I imagine is the logistics of getting the San Mateo County Sheriff Department to take a sample. They have not shown a lot of recent interest in this case, even when evidence turned up that got the NCMEC very excited. It is draining to have to beg them to do what they should be eager to do - THEIR JOB!!!!

mysteriew
01-05-2006, 11:15 PM
I do not believe so. One problem I imagine is the logistics of getting the San Mateo County Sheriff Department to take a sample. They have not shown a lot of recent interest in this case, even when evidence turned up that got the NCMEC very excited. It is draining to have to beg them to do what they should be eager to do - THEIR JOB!!!!
That database is operated by the FBI. The laws were different then, but now all kidnappings can be considered by the FBI. How about bypassing them and contacting the FBI direct and making the request. Or I think the NCMEC can request it if she asks. If they cannot, at least she can get them to back her when she requests it. I am not sure if a charge is assessed to the parents.

I don't know the procedure for submitting to the database. But here is the congessional report about it and the fed law which governs it....

DNA identification records of persons convicted of crimes;
analyses of DNA samples recovered from crime scenes;
analyses of DNA samples recovered from unidentified human remains; and
analyses of DNA samples voluntarily contributed from relatives of missing persons. See 42 U.S.C.S. §14132(a).
http://www.fbi.gov/congress/congress01/dwight061201.htm

More discussion:
http://www.usdoj.gov/ag/dnapolicybook_miss_persons.htm

Since it is covered by federal law, most likely there won't be a charge against the local dept (that would need to be verified). And if no charge to them, then they shouldn't have any objections to it.

Dr. Doogie
01-06-2006, 11:18 AM
I am becoming more-and-more cautiously optimistic about the woman who posted to an adoption reunioun registry. Let me toss some statistics around to explain why I have revised my opinion.

The following are averaged out for the years 1999 through 2001 in San Francisco County:

3 Year total of births: 25,088
Average daily number of births: 22.9
Percentage of births for Non-Hispanic Whites: 34.4
Number of births daily for Non-Hispanic Whites: 7.9
Number of female births daily (assuming 50%): 4.0

What this means is that during these years, an average of four white females were born in San Francisco during an average day. Then you factor in how many of those would have brown eyes and brown hair and that number would reduce somewhat. Then consider how many of those would either be adopted or consider themselves adopted and you would realistically come up with a small number (I am sure that it would average out to less than 1 on any particular day).

Since these numbers are based on recent years and San Francisco in 1967 was a different place than it is today (different ethnic percentages and the influx of young whites into SF for the "Summer of Love", etc), these numbers would skew somewhat. However, even increasing the statistics by a factor of two would mean that there were only a couple of people who would fit this criteria. And we are on the trail of one of them.

I am waiting for a response from the poster via email. Since the phone number that she provided on the site is disconnected, I am researching all people listed in phone directories with the same name to try and find her. I will let you all know when I have any success.

Annasmom
01-06-2006, 08:40 PM
That database is operated by the FBI. The laws were different then, but now all kidnappings can be considered by the FBI. How about bypassing them and contacting the FBI direct and making the request. Or I think the NCMEC can request it if she asks. If they cannot, at least she can get them to back her when she requests it. I am not sure if a charge is assessed to the parents.

I don't know the procedure for submitting to the database. But here is the congessional report about it and the fed law which governs it....

DNA identification records of persons convicted of crimes;
analyses of DNA samples recovered from crime scenes;
analyses of DNA samples recovered from unidentified human remains; and
analyses of DNA samples voluntarily contributed from relatives of missing persons. See 42 U.S.C.S. §14132(a).
http://www.fbi.gov/congress/congress01/dwight061201.htm

More discussion:
http://www.usdoj.gov/ag/dnapolicybook_miss_persons.htm

Since it is covered by federal law, most likely there won't be a charge against the local dept (that would need to be verified). And if no charge to them, then they shouldn't have any objections to it.

I have mentioned it to my contact at the NCMEC, who said "that might be a good idea", but I think both the National Center and our local sheriff's department put such old cases at an extremely low priority, especially considering present constraints on their budgets. I believe that if an unidentified Jane Doe turned up with similarities to our case, they would ask me for a DNA sample; as it happens, they have not, and I haven't pushed for it.

Kelly
01-06-2006, 09:42 PM
I have mentioned it to my contact at the NCMEC, who said "that might be a good idea", but I think both the National Center and our local sheriff's department put such old cases at an extremely low priority, especially considering present constraints on their budgets. I believe that if an unidentified Jane Doe turned up with similarities to our case, they would ask me for a DNA sample; as it happens, they have not, and I haven't pushed for it.

Annasmom, I am appalled at the lackadaisical attitude it appears they have about this. It doesn't matter if your case has been voted most likely not be solved. It is your right to get this done and I encourage you to forge ahead with a big stick and do it. What if Anna was one of those remains and you could find your answer?

I had a series on my blog that covered issues like this. I wrote:

"Important note to all families of the missing: If your missing loved one has been gone for more than 30 days, and you do not have anything of theirs for to process for DNA, you may get your own (or other appropriate family member) DNA processed FREE of charge and entered into CODIS by the DNA lab. (Even if you do not live in the same state as where the person went missing, you can still do this.) Contact the LE handling the case. If the person is over age 20, have them contact the National Center for Missing Adults at 1-800-690-FIND for instructions. If the missing person is under age 21, have them call NCMEC at 1-800-THE LOST. If your LE refuses to do this, call these organizations directly for assistance."

The LE will be sent a DNA kit and all they have to do is get the sample and send it to the lab. That's it.

The databases do checks for matches on a regular basis.

Please follow up on this.

Kelly

Kelly
01-06-2006, 09:44 PM
Since it is covered by federal law, most likely there won't be a charge against the local dept (that would need to be verified). And if no charge to them, then they shouldn't have any objections to it.

There is no charge! LE is ignorant of this, as they are of many things.

gardenmom
01-07-2006, 02:12 AM
Annasmom, I am appalled at the lackadaisical attitude it appears they have about this. It doesn't matter if your case has been voted most likely not be solved. It is your right to get this done and I encourage you to forge ahead with a big stick and do it. What if Anna was one of those remains and you could find your answer?

I had a series on my blog that covered issues like this. I wrote:

"Important note to all families of the missing: If your missing loved one has been gone for more than 30 days, and you do not have anything of theirs for to process for DNA, you may get your own (or other appropriate family member) DNA processed FREE of charge and entered into CODIS by the DNA lab. (Even if you do not live in the same state as where the person went missing, you can still do this.) Contact the LE handling the case. If the person is over age 20, have them contact the National Center for Missing Adults at 1-800-690-FIND for instructions. If the missing person is under age 21, have them call NCMEC at 1-800-THE LOST. If your LE refuses to do this, call these organizations directly for assistance."

The LE will be sent a DNA kit and all they have to do is get the sample and send it to the lab. That's it.

The databases do checks for matches on a regular basis.

Please follow up on this.

Kelly

Kelly, you are awesome! I hope Annas mom takes your advise.

KT Can
01-07-2006, 04:00 AM
As always Kelly, you are the best. Thinking of you and Anna's mom daily.....

Kelly
01-07-2006, 09:45 AM
I didn't realize families of the missing were posting here. I thought this forum was specifically unsolved murders, so I did not look here. Are there others posting here besides annasmom? If so, I will post some general things on this forum. I don't mean to go off topic on Anna's thread. My apologies for that.

Kelly

mjak
01-07-2006, 11:49 AM
I didn't realize families of the missing were posting here. I thought this forum was specifically unsolved murders, so I did not look here. Are there others posting here besides annasmom? If so, I will post some general things on this forum. I don't mean to go off topic on Anna's thread. My apologies for that.

Kelly

Please do not apologize!!! You should be thanked for taking the time to educate us all on the various avenues to help locate the missing. I do recall seeing posts here from several other family members of missing people but I can't recall specificly which ones they were.

mjak

shadowangel
01-07-2006, 01:57 PM
I didn't realize families of the missing were posting here. I thought this forum was specifically unsolved murders, so I did not look here. Are there others posting here besides annasmom? If so, I will post some general things on this forum. I don't mean to go off topic on Anna's thread. My apologies for that.

Kelly
Maybe we should advertise more! ;)
Not only is Anna's Mom posting here, but also Tammy Leppert's sister is now posting here, as is the sister of Janice Pockett, and two of the grandchildren from the Sodder family (Missing in WV thread)-to mention a few.
Kelly, any info you can share will always be greatly appreciated.

PonderingThings
01-07-2006, 02:06 PM
I have suggested to Kelly that she start a thread with information for families, like she posted here, that could be stickied in the Cold Case forum.

Families NEED to know!

Kelly is going to check it out. http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif

Dr. Doogie
01-08-2006, 02:30 AM
I have been trying to hunt down the woman (born in San Francisco on September 25, 1967) who posted on various adoption-reunion sites trying to find her birth-parents. My statistical analysis in an earlier posting show why it is crucial that we find this woman. Unfortunately, her contact information is not current and I have yet to be able to find her, which is where all you sleuthers come in...

If any of you out there have a special talent for finding people, please private message me and I can provide you with the details that I have. I do not want to post her information here in the general public forum (at least yet) in an effort to protect the privacy of someone who may not be involved with this case at all. If a couple of you who really are good at this take a crack at it, it would be very helpful. Thanks!

mjak
01-08-2006, 10:12 AM
I have been trying to hunt down the woman (born in San Francisco on September 25, 1967) who posted on various adoption-reunion sites trying to find her birth-parents. My statistical analysis in an earlier posting show why it is crucial that we find this woman. Unfortunately, her contact information is not current and I have yet to be able to find her, which is where all you sleuthers come in...

I tend to think this leed is highly unlikly. As if this was Anna this person would know she was adopted at the age of 5 or 6. This information would we crucial in her serach and I would imagine she would have included it in her posts at these various adoption-reunion sites. However, as unlikly as I think it is that this person is Anna I do believe no stone should be left unturned.

mjak

Marie
01-08-2006, 08:48 PM
Dr. Doogie, did you get my pm's?

Dr. Doogie
01-09-2006, 01:41 AM
I have discovered the adopted woman's new married name and have hopefully current contact information now. I will call her on Monday and compare notes with her to see if she is Anna. Stay tuned for what will hopefully be an exciting post!

mjak
01-09-2006, 01:44 AM
I have discovered the adopted woman's new married name and have hopefully current contact information now. I will call her on Monday and compare notes with her to see if she is Anna. Stay tuned for what will hopefully be an exciting post!
Wow Dr. Doggie, you are good!! I will keep my fingers crossed!!!

mjak

Dr. Doogie
01-09-2006, 11:56 AM
My contact information for the adoptee is again not current. More to the point, she has been involved in a messy divorce with child custody issues where it appears that she is trying to make it hard for her ex-husband to find her (making it harder for me too).

I am searching the court records for an attorney name who I can contact her through.

Annasmom
01-09-2006, 05:33 PM
My contact information for the adoptee is again not current. More to the point, she has been involved in a messy divorce with child custody issues where it appears that she is trying to make it hard for her ex-husband to find her (making it harder for me too).

I am searching the court records for an attorney name who I can contact her through. Doogie, I had to tear down the plastic masking the phone machine, etc., in its cabinet to get your message. You have earned sainthood for your efforts thus far, in my book.

PonderingThings
01-09-2006, 06:54 PM
Annasmom you mentioned Anna's brothers in a previous post.

May I ask if they are George's children as well. If so, was Anna the only girl? The oldest girl?

Dr. Doogie
01-09-2006, 07:17 PM
Annasmom you mentioned Anna's brothers in a previous post.

May I ask if they are George's children as well. If so, was Anna the only girl? The oldest girl?
PonderingThings:

I am not Annasmom, but I can answer that. Anna has two brothers by Annasmom and a different husband (before George Waters). Anna was the only girl by either husband.

PonderingThings
01-09-2006, 07:19 PM
Thanks Dr. Doogie, I thought that's what it was but wanted to confirm.

Dr. Doogie
01-10-2006, 11:26 AM
You have earned sainthood for your efforts thus far, in my book.
I was actually hoping to be elected Pope (they get to wear some really cool hats).

Dr. Doogie
01-10-2006, 11:32 AM
All of the phone numbers that I have found for the adopted woman are disconnected, and she is not using an attorney through which she can be contacted.

I am sending out a letter today to every address that I have for her (including a P.O. box that court papers show as current). The letter should be in her hands by Wednesday or Thursday, so hopefully I should hear from her later on this week.

Good things come to those who wait...

mysteriew
01-10-2006, 12:02 PM
All of the phone numbers that I have found for the adopted woman are disconnected, and she is not using an attorney through which she can be contacted.

I am sending out a letter today to every address that I have for her (including a P.O. box that court papers show as current). The letter should be in her hands by Wednesday or Thursday, so hopefully I should hear from her later on this week.

Good things come to those who wait...

That last court appearance. Maybe try doing a property tax search in that county?

Dr. Doogie
01-10-2006, 01:26 PM
I have found another avenue to contact the adoptee. I hope to have a response as soon as this afternoon or evening.

mysteriew
01-10-2006, 02:04 PM
Got my fingers crossed!

PonderingThings
01-10-2006, 03:53 PM
I too am hoping you found her Dr. Doogie and look forward to your update!

In the event it isn't her, I'm wondering if I might suggest an alternate way of searching/clue.

This came out of a conversation I once had with workmates. One of the girls was so surprised to know her real name (on her birth certificate) did not include the nickname all family members called her. The reason? She grew up with four brothers, ALL the family members called her "Squishy". Up until she was around 4, she thought it was her "official" name because all birthday gifts, references, etc., referred to "Squishy".

It got me thinking. Was Anna referred to by a nickname? Was any of her brothers? Please do not tell me the nicknames, if they exist, and have not been published. I don't want to be responsible for private information.

I'm suggesting it as another keyword in a google search for Anna. She may not remember her real name, but perhaps she remembers a nickname? Or a siblings nickname? Perhaps, if she is searching, she'd include it in a post?

Just another idea http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif

Dr. Doogie
01-10-2006, 04:35 PM
Was Anna referred to by a nickname? Was any of her brothers? Please do not tell me the nicknames, if they exist, and have not been published. I don't want to be responsible for private information.

Of course there is the name "Eifee" mentioned here in this forum. Her immediate family did not use this name, but her birth-father who was estranged did. I do recall one nickname that Annasmom mentioned in her diary that she has kept to keep track of the search, but it is generic enough to not be of any help.

These are good ideas, PonderingThings. I will check with Annasmom to see if there were any other nicknames that were used that I am not aware of.

mysteriew
01-10-2006, 05:11 PM
Those nicknames also might be really helpful to you in trying to make contact with her. If she is leery of you (and no offense, but I would be LOL- a stranger, who got the name from the internet, and gives this type of story). If you asked her about a nickname, that she may have had in the past, it might ring a bell for her.

PonderingThings
01-10-2006, 05:18 PM
Exactly Mysteriew! That's why I don't need to know what it is.

Usually this kind of info is used as a "preliminary identification" kind of thing... before DNA tests, etc..

If it hasn't been made public, if the nicknames exist, that's ok. Just as long as someone does search for those keywords. When you brainwash a child, you never erase everything. Sometimes you can get the "official information" like names, etc., to completely disappear... information tied to emotions though are another matter. Kids remember certain things from a very young age, even though they have never spoken of it, nor has anyone else.

mysteriew
01-10-2006, 05:30 PM
Other key things to find out, might be- favorite relative- someone she was close to, enjoyed spending time with. A smell she might recall, like if Mom baked a lot or flower scents if they worked in the flowers together, her favorite place to spend time, favorite pet, what she slept with.
Kids remember weird things. They tend to percieve the world in a different way than adults. Smells will tend to stay with a kid. (My dau. used to identify my friends by the pets they had and her best remembered memories are of the pets she had). If there was something she slept with, but didn't have that might stay with her. Games she played with her bros or what they teased her about.

Dr. Doogie
01-10-2006, 05:49 PM
These are all good ideas. I did include a family photgraph taken within a year of when Anna disappeared to try and jog her memory (including the names of her immediate family) in the letter that I sent today. When she contacts me, I will of course compare notes with Annasmom to see if she thinks that we have a match.

The email I sent was through a school reunion website that requires a premium membership to send emails for free. It turns out the email I sent cannot be opened by her until she pays a small fee - something that I am sure will be a problem (I wouldn't pay a fee to receive an unsolicited email without knowing what was in it). This means I have to do some quick shuffling of my funds to allow me to upgrade my membership so that the email will be free to her, hopefully before she tosses it out of principle. Even if she does, I can resend it once I have upgraded.

Dr. Doogie
01-10-2006, 06:28 PM
Okay, I finally straightened out the billing issue on the email so she can view it without paying a fee. Sheesh!!!