Raven's Mission

[Moxie]

Wondering if anyone here knows where Raven went on his mission and if so, when he went and for how long. I have heard various stories with Raven as the source, and the stories vary widely in their facts. If you are uncomfortable posting, please pm me. Any information you can provide is appreciated.

Raven is evidently suddenly very involved with his church and faith. Am curious as to how dedicated he truly is. Does his stake president know about his conviction for embezzlement or his repeated adultery during his marriage to Janet?

Again, please post if you have any information, or pm me.

[Jenifred]

You know the whole show about Raven's religious revival, makes me sick. It makes me sick to see someone diving for protection into the religion that he gave no qualms or thoughts about when he--left his wife, committed adultry, stole money from his employer, lied to his wife, her family, his family, oh yeah, and killed his wife (oh and I could go on--like lying to be able to even put his missionary papers in, lying to be able to go into the temple, etc.) I would loathe him even more if I knew he was taking money from the LDS Church to pay off the penalties from his embezzlement charges (not misdemeanor) or use those funds to say, um go on little jaunts to Moab.

So, I don't think that his bishop or stake president would necessarily know about his convictions or affairs. Although I would think that there's some way for them to find out--at least about the embezzlement, since we've got web sites displaying the info here. His affairs, would have to have been divulged from his own mouth (or the women that were involved). And we all know that's not going to happen.

[juliagoulia]

I went to school with Raven in VA. He left after the first semester to work, but did not serve a mission to the best of my knowledge. Does anyone else from the SVC crowd remember it that way?

I'm always hesitant to judge anyone's commitment to their religion, but Raven's sudden turn-around is enough to raise an eyebrow...or two!

[terminatrixator]

As far as Kaiden goes, he's a crappy father now and always will be. It's hard to be a good daddy when you murdered his Mommy.

His beliefs are definitely not my beliefs, he believes in one thing and that is The Raven.

I haven't been to church in eons, and I have more of a foot in the gate than The Raven ever will.

[reportergirl]

Hey everyone,

Been awhile since I posted anything, but I read a lot.

I grew up with Raven and from what I remember, he did not go on a mission. He met Janet right around the time he should have gone on one--19 years of age, and then moved out of Utah.

I'll post when I am home for the holidays and try and find out if he is there too.

[ewwwinteresting]

Hey good to see ya RG! That would be great if you could update us with what is going on in Utah. It will be interesting to see if raven spends Christmas with his family or is on "vacation" during Kaiden's first Christmas.:loser:

[reportergirl]

No prob, ew. I'll post as soon as I get settled there.

[terminatrixator]

No prob, ew. I'll post as soon as I get settled there.
Thanks Reportergirl, just do us a favor....be careful, he's dangerous.

[NCBanker]

Hey guys - I hope everyone is doing well - I've been following the site as devotedly as possible. I hate that there hasn't been anymore media attention, of course, the whole drama down in Aruba certainly didn't help...

As several others have said, Raven did not serve a mission. I feel it safe to say that had he served one, his path in life very well could have been different.

Concerning the idea that his current Priesthood leaders are oblivious to what has transpired in NC, you can rest assured that they know. When someone moves into a new ward, the Bishop often calls the former Bishop in order to gain insight into any needs or problems that exist. This is especially true if a new member of the ward is seeking financial assistance. The Bishop would immediately contact the former Bishop in order to uncover any previous history. Trust me, they don't naively dole out money to everyone who comes knocking. The Church delves into every aspect of the individual's life, financially and spiritually, in order to get them on the right track.

Any forensic psychologist will tell you that the M.O. of many violent crime offenders is a sudden attack of conscience and a sudden flurry of religious involvement. Raven is true to his character.


You know the whole show about Raven's religious revival, makes me sick. It makes me sick to see someone diving for protection into the religion that he gave no qualms or thoughts about when he--left his wife, committed adultry, stole money from his employer, lied to his wife, her family, his family, oh yeah, and killed his wife (oh and I could go on--like lying to be able to even put his missionary papers in, lying to be able to go into the temple, etc.) I would loathe him even more if I knew he was taking money from the LDS Church to pay off the penalties from his embezzlement charges (not misdemeanor) or use those funds to say, um go on little jaunts to Moab.

So, I don't think that his bishop or stake president would necessarily know about his convictions or affairs. Although I would think that there's some way for them to find out--at least about the embezzlement, since we've got web sites displaying the info here. His affairs, would have to have been divulged from his own mouth (or the women that were involved). And we all know that's not going to happen.

[Jess]

So, if Raven's Bishop in NC did not know of his marital indiscretions or of his embezzlement at the time that his Utah Bishop contacted him, it is possible that Raven has been able to fly under the radar ?

[terminatrixator]

So, if the NC Bishop knew about the Embezzlement and the Affairs, The Raven was still receiving help from his Church. Wouldn't the embezzlement and the affairs be a reason to start ex-communication in NC of The Raven?????

How can we know whether or not for a fact Utah contacted NC? It would seem to me that the Preisthood Leaders in Utah do not know about the Affairs or the Embezzlement preceding Janet's Murder as The Raven has been taken into the Church and attends.

I wonder, how does he explain the embezzlement, the fact he is a CONVICTED FELON, had to pay back restitution, got 6 months suspended sentence, and is on two years probation? He needed money for his Vehicles?? It's not like he PAID BILLS with it.

How does The Raven explain the fact to his Bishops that in the 7 months since his Wife and Child's MURDER, he has not contacted LE to find out about the status of Janet Marie Christiansen's and her unborn child's death?

This is all too confusing to me, and I really have my doubts on what his current Preisthood Leaders know or do not know, but I certianly hope they find out by a member of NC's Church, or through a member of his current Church.

[Jenifred]

So, if Raven's Bishop in NC did not know of his marital indiscretions or of his embezzlement at the time that his Utah Bishop contacted him, it is possible that Raven has been able to fly under the radar ?
Exactly! If the bishop in NC didn't know about the affairs and embezzling, then he'd have nothing to tell Raven's new bishop in Utah.

[ewwwinteresting]

Good to see you NCBanker! Glad you are still with us. I'm wondering how much the Bishop in Utah would inquire of the Bishop in NC if raven is living with his family. The Bishop in Utah would know his family and possbily know even raven from when he lived there. Since raven isn't a stranger, would the Bishop in Utah still contact the Bishop in NC. He may think he already knows him and the situation:waitasec:

[Jenifred]

Good to see you NCBanker! Glad you are still with us. I'm wondering how much the Bishop in Utah would inquire of the Bishop in NC if raven is living with his family. The Bishop in Utah would know his family and possbily know even raven from when he lived there. Since raven isn't a stranger, would the Bishop in Utah still contact the Bishop in NC. He may think he already knows him and the situation:waitasec:
I think that's a pretty good scenario and very likely what might have happened once Raven moved in with Karyn.

[Moxie]

I think that's a pretty good scenario and very likely what might have happened once Raven moved in with Karyn.
Hmmm... Well, there is factual evidence to prove his infidelity to Janet, as well as his felony conviction for embezzlement. So, if the facts were to be presented to his bishop, what might happen then?

[Jess]

And who could present those facts to his bishop ? Certainly no one in his family would, or would they ? Would the bishop give any weight to those facts if they were presented by an outsider out of his jurisdiction ?

[reportergirl]

Hey guys,


Let me tell you, rest assured the Utah Bishop knows what's going on. Everyone in the neighborhood knows. It's a very tight ward.

Also, I don't know if I'm the only one here still asking this, but how are you all so sure that Raven did it? I've known him for so long growing up, it just still seems so out of his character.

[Jenifred]

Okay, Jess and Moxie since I didn't know answers off the top of my head to your questions, I asked my dad (he's a high priest and former bishop).

Moxie--since the affairs would be hard to prove physically unless either the woman involved confessed or Raven, it would be hard to get a bishop to start proceedings on that account. But since there is actual records that anyone can access on the embezzlement, Raven's bishop could start disiplinary proceedings on that. He could probably get excommunicated for emezzlement, and if the affairs could be proved he'd probably be excommunicated for that too. So, to sum it all up, if the bishop wanted to, he could start the disiplinary proceedings on Raven and even if Raven didn't show up at the proceedings, he could still be tried and given a punishment. Let's use Mark Hacking as an example, since he was in jail and since he admitted to killing his wife, he has probably been tried and excommunicated without having shown up for the court.

Jess--Who could present those facts to his bishop? Technically, I could walk into his bishop's office and show proof of his embezzlement conviction (not misdemenor) and leave it at that. His bishop would then have to decide if he was going to go ahead with the proceedings. And would the bishop have to pay mind to someone outside his jurisdiction? I would hope that he would if the person gave solid proof of what Raven had done.

Hope that helps. Anymore questions? I can always have them clarified if needs be.

[Jenifred]

Hey guys,


Let me tell you, rest assured the Utah Bishop knows what's going on. Everyone in the neighborhood knows. It's a very tight ward.

Also, I don't know if I'm the only one here still asking this, but how are you all so sure that Raven did it? I've known him for so long growing up, it just still seems so out of his character.
Sure there's that slim chance that he didn't kill his wife, but I think that Jess and Moxie are talking about the fact that he is a convicted felon and that he's broken the law of chastity (which he promised to live by when he took out his temple endowments) on more than just once.

[reportergirl]

Jenifred,


I agree with all of that, but are you sure he has taken out his endowment? They weren't married in temple, if I remember correctly, and I don't think I heard they were sealed at a later date. Did they do it while in NC?

[Moxie]

Sure there's that slim chance that he didn't kill his wife, but I think that Jess and Moxie are talking about the fact that he is a convicted felon and that he's broken the law of chastity (which he promised to live by when he took out his temple endowments) on more than just once.

That helps... You are right, I was referencing the felony conviction for embezzlement as well as the numerous adulterous affairs while he was married to Janet. Since Raven has not been charged or arrested regarding Janet's murder, I would be reluctant to bring that up to the bishop, since I am sure the bishop would want only facts. However, it seems the felony embezzlement and affairs would be enough for him to be in serious jeporady with the LDS church.

Hmmm..

Since Raven has a long history of playing fast and loose with the truth, my guess is that his bishop does not know the whole story. Maybe bits and pieces, but definitely not the whole, unvarnished truth.

[Moxie]

Jenifred,


I agree with all of that, but are you sure he has taken out his endowment? They weren't married in temple, if I remember correctly, and I don't think I heard they were sealed at a later date. Did they do it while in NC?
They were married in the temple.

[NCBanker]

Relative to Raven "snowing" his new priesthood leaders, i.e. the Bishop, please know that these individuals have the power of discernment. Because of their callings as shepherds over their individual wards, they are entitled to spiritual insight and inspiration. I promise you Raven is not fooling anyone. I've known of cases where former Bishops have taken the initiative to contact a member's new Bishop in order to "fill them in" on what's been going on... This isn't just another social organization.

Relative to any potential disciplinary action, anyone anywhere can submit information to Raven's priesthood leaders. If you want to know who his Bishop/Stake President is, give me either his address or at least the town where he lives...

[ewwwinteresting]

Hey guys,


Let me tell you, rest assured the Utah Bishop knows what's going on. Everyone in the neighborhood knows. It's a very tight ward.

Also, I don't know if I'm the only one here still asking this, but how are you all so sure that Raven did it? I've known him for so long growing up, it just still seems so out of his character.
A couple questions RG: Do you know if the Bishop has excommunicated raven? If he really does know what's going on and everyone else in the ward knows, wouldn't he have to excommunicate him?
Also, wondering if having affairs and stealing from his employer were out of character too or were these facts not a surprise to someone that knew him?
I have racked my brain for months now on who else could have done this. No other scenario that I can think of makes sense with all the facts that we do know, which isn't alot. Can you think of any?

[Jenifred]

Relative to Raven "snowing" his new priesthood leaders, i.e. the Bishop, please know that these individuals have the power of discernment. Because of their callings as shepherds over their individual wards, they are entitled to spiritual insight and inspiration. I promise you Raven is not fooling anyone. I've known of cases where former Bishops have taken the initiative to contact a member's new Bishop in order to "fill them in" on what's been going on... This isn't just another social organization.
In a perfect world, this would be true.

[Thinkoflaura]

My opinions on why Raven went back to LDS life. All of them are based upon the fact that I believe he is a narcissitic sociopath who will always find a way to con others out of love, time and resources.

MONEY- In the form of housing, food, clothing, whatever he and Kaiden ( and possibly his mother and that part of the gang) needed will be provided to him by his ward.
It's how LDS works. They take care of their own. All he has to do is show need to his Bishop, and go to the Storehouse and shop.. for free. No repayment is ever required.

EMPLOYMENT- LDS also maintain employment placement centers and will find him a job, probably at a business owned by another LDS member. I doubt that he will do much or for very long, but I don't see him working on bikes and getting his hands literally dirty for very long.

CLEANING UP HIS REPUTATION- Pledging devotion to the LDS church gives the perception of a closer alignment with Janet's family through the ties of their religion.
He needs to act as clean as possible in public and on paper because the day is coming when Janet's murderer will be arrested and will be tried before a jury of his peers. .

LEGAL AID- I would bet dollars to doughnuts now that he's out of the jurisdiction of his NC attorney, he has been looking for or has retained a fellow LDS member who is an attorney. Because of his financial status, he is probably going to have excellent legal protection for free until the day comes when he is extradited back to NC.

AVAILABLE YOUNG WOMEN- Let's face it, there are many very young women ( 18-21) who are going to fall all over the new widower and cute little son in their stake. He chose a wife who was, by all accounts, raised in the LDS church and who retained her LDS value system.
Chances are, he would want the same type of giving, devoted wife again.. and Kaiden will need a mother.

JMO, but these are the reasons I see him working the religion angle. Again, since I consider him to be a sociopath, he lacks a conscience. Guilt/ forgiveness/ repentance are not emotions and actions that a sociopath is capable of having.

[BirdHunter]

Hey guys,


Let me tell you, rest assured the Utah Bishop knows what's going on. Everyone in the neighborhood knows. It's a very tight ward.

Also, I don't know if I'm the only one here still asking this, but how are you all so sure that Raven did it? I've known him for so long growing up, it just still seems so out of his character.Really? then how come you didn't even know that he did marry Janet in the LDS Washington D.C. temple? JMO, I think people know what they want to know. As a close tight ward and neighborhood, would any of these people want to help find out about the truth regarding the murder of Janet?

[Thinkoflaura]

Birdhunter,

There are certainly people who choose not to dig below the surface.. who choose not to ask. Don't ask, don't tell is very much a part of the culture Raven is in.
However, his fellow LDS members are NOT psychopaths or sociopaths.
IF someone presented Raven's stake president, bishop, and elders of his church with everything we KNOW to be true, they would listen, they would be obligated to consider the information!!

It may be that it is up to one of us to make this our personal mission. I am not the type of person to prepare and deliver a concise, unbiased, unemotional report of this case to date, but I imagine that we DO have someone here who can do a remarkably effective job.

My hope, my prayer is that we are now getting to the " grass roots" part of what Internet sleuths can do to shed light where darkness lives. I hope very much that someone here will present all of the case information, the timeline, and especially screen captures of Raven's online activity ( blog, the " I AM A Bird" part, the MySpace signup as Single, all of it) with quiet dignity and let the evidence bear witness through its own heavy visual and certainly factual impact.

[Jenifred]

My opinions on why Raven went back to LDS life. All of them are based upon the fact that I believe he is a narcissitic sociopath who will always find a way to con others out of love, time and resources.

MONEY- In the form of housing, food, clothing, whatever he and Kaiden ( and possibly his mother and that part of the gang) needed will be provided to him by his ward.
It's how LDS works. They take care of their own. All he has to do is show need to his Bishop, and go to the Storehouse and shop.. for free. No repayment is ever required.
I don't know if Utah is different (because there are so many Mormons there), but in the Houston area, people that need food/basic personal care needs, someone has to go to the person's house and take an order. Technically, the person from the church taking the order needs to physically go thorough the cupboards/pantry to make sure that people aren't stockpiling. I know that this doesn't happen everytime and that people get items that they don't need. I don't think that people are actually allowed to go shopping in the storehouse.

EMPLOYMENT- LDS also maintain employment placement centers and will find him a job, probably at a business owned by another LDS member. I doubt that he will do much or for very long, but I don't see him working on bikes and getting his hands literally dirty for very long.
I would hope that any LDS business man would take the time to check another member's references and background. I'm sure there are many out there that would be willing to give someone a second chance. But really, Raven is a crook, has been a crook, and will always be a crook. So I really feel sorry for this guy at Canyon Bikes, he better be checking and re-checking whatever Raven does.


AVAILABLE YOUNG WOMEN- Let's face it, there are many very young women ( 18-21) who are going to fall all over the new widower and cute little son in their stake. He chose a wife who was, by all accounts, raised in the LDS church and who retained her LDS value system.
Chances are, he would want the same type of giving, devoted wife again.. and Kaiden will need a mother.
This is what scares me too. There are so many naive LDS girls out there that have the potential to be sucked in to this whole scenario. There are so many that would find it romantic to think that they filled a deceased wife's shoes, comforted the widower, and stepped up to take care of a small child. What those girls need to know is that Raven was a liar, he will lie to get them in his bed and take away their innocence just to leave them in the dust later. If he ever does really decided to get married again, granted that he's not in prison, he will lie to say that he's worthy to get married in the temple (if that's what the girl wants to do). And I'm afraid that this girl will be heartbroken mourning all the years she lost on this fool--unless he decides to strike again and kill another wife.

[terminatrixator]

Birdhunter,

There are certainly people who choose not to dig below the surface.. who choose not to ask. Don't ask, don't tell is very much a part of the culture Raven is in.
However, his fellow LDS members are NOT psychopaths or sociopaths.
IF someone presented Raven's stake president, bishop, and elders of his church with everything we KNOW to be true, they would listen, they would be obligated to consider the information!!

It may be that it is up to one of us to make this our personal mission. I am not the type of person to prepare and deliver a concise, unbiased, unemotional report of this case to date, but I imagine that we DO have someone here who can do a remarkably effective job.

My hope, my prayer is that we are now getting to the " grass roots" part of what Internet sleuths can do to shed light where darkness lives. I hope very much that someone here will present all of the case information, the timeline, and especially screen captures of Raven's online activity ( blog, the " I AM A Bird" part, the MySpace signup as Single, all of it) with quiet dignity and let the evidence bear witness through its own heavy visual and certainly factual impact.
Good idea, and I can guarantee you that I am not one that can deliver an unemotional report, but I would be glad to help anyone else with it, if they are willing. Just pm me and I'll be happy to help out with one.

[Thinkoflaura]

Jenni, I have direct knowledge of how one metropolitan area stake offers up their storehouse and it is definitely an open door, come as you are, take what you want shopping experience. I am certain that no one from my former friend's ward came to her house because I was there when she asked and was given permission from her bishop to go. The Relief Society also took cooked food items to her for quite some time, and they also had a special " Put and Take" for her which was really more of a " We put, You take". The ward was an extremely giving ward, and the members were also mostly in the upper income group.
I made no judgments about her need or perceived need, but I do think that the civil suits she filed against her husband who was an inactive member give a larger picture of the situation. What none of us knew at the time, but I do know now because of the huge house she bought shortly after the church relief was provided was that she had inherited a 7 figure estate from her mother at the same time. She threw her husband out of the house and initiated divorce proceedings against him before she received the money.
However, things were off timewise, and she was short of cash during the period of time when her mother's estate was still in process and her husband had vacated the premises. That's when she asked for church aid.

I have no direct knowledge of how the LDS career placement center worked in our area. I think that many of the jobs were temporary in nature.

I had a very strong mental image of Raven, Kaiden and the sympathetic, marriage and children- minded young women.... I think he will shop around, date quite a bit outside the church, and remarry before long. I have a feeling that he will choose a much younger never- married young woman from the Church and that he will more than likely marry a tall, slim blonde beautiful girl. I worry a lot about those young women and think they deserve to KNOW the facts before they are sucked in by Raven's superficial charm.



I don't know if Utah is different (because there are so many Mormons there), but in the Houston area, people that need food/basic personal care needs, someone has to go to the person's house and take an order. Technically, the person from the church taking the order needs to physically go thorough the cupboards/pantry to make sure that people aren't stockpiling. I know that this doesn't happen everytime and that people get items that they don't need. I don't think that people are actually allowed to go shopping in the storehouse.


I would hope that any LDS business man would take the time to check another member's references and background. I'm sure there are many out there that would be willing to give someone a second chance. But really, Raven is a crook, has been a crook, and will always be a crook. So I really feel sorry for this guy at Canyon Bikes, he better be checking and re-checking whatever Raven does.



This is what scares me too. There are so many naive LDS girls out there that have the potential to be sucked in to this whole scenario. There are so many that would find it romantic to think that they filled a deceased wife's shoes, comforted the widower, and stepped up to take care of a small child. What those girls need to know is that Raven was a liar, he will lie to get them in his bed and take away their innocence just to leave them in the dust later. If he ever does really decided to get married again, granted that he's not in prison, he will lie to say that he's worthy to get married in the temple (if that's what the girl wants to do). And I'm afraid that this girl will be heartbroken mourning all the years she lost on this fool--unless he decides to strike again and kill another wife.

[terminatrixator]

I had a very strong mental image of Raven, Kaiden and the sympathetic, marriage and children- minded young women.... I think he will shop around, date quite a bit outside the church, and remarry before long. I have a feeling that he will choose a much younger never- married young woman from the Church and that he will more than likely marry a tall, slim blonde beautiful girl. I worry a lot about those young women and think they deserve to KNOW the facts before they are sucked in by Raven's superficial charm.
You just described Janet.

[Thinkoflaura]

I thought she was really small and a brunette. Am I wrong?
From the photos on Raven's archived site ( ha ha Raven), she looks very small and also dark haired.


You just described Janet.

[Jenifred]

ToL--I'm sorry, I was wrong. People do go shopping at the Bishop's Storehouse, however it's not a free for all (or it shouldn't be). Someone does have to go to their house, assess their needs and then fill out a form. Then the person receiving the aid takes the form, after it's been approved by their bishop, then they go to the storehouse and pick up the food. However, if the rules are followed, they are only supposed to get what they need for 2 weeks. If they only need 2 rolls of toilet paper, that's all they're supposed to take--not a whole 4 pack, just what they need.

I didn't mean to split hairs with youor to get off the main topic. But this is how the storehouse is supposed to work. Does it get abused? Probably. Is Raven taking advantage of this? Who knows, but I assume that Karyn and Jim's jobs should provide enough for themselves as well as Raven and Kaiden. They shouldn't be needing to use this storehouse as their grocery.

[Jenifred]

I thought she was really small and a brunette. Am I wrong?
From the photos on Raven's archived site ( ha ha Raven), she looks very small and also dark haired.
She was petite and darker blonde sometimes a lighter blonde, but not a brunette by any means.

[BirdHunter]

She was petite and darker blonde sometimes a lighter blonde, but not a brunette by any means.As, Jenifred has stated, Janet was blonde to dirty blonde depending on time of year, but she was also about 5 feet 8 inches and very slim.

[terminatrixator]

Yes, Janet Marie Chrisitiansen had blonde hair, was tall, slim and very Beautiful.

[Jenifred]

As, Jenifred has stated, Janet was blonde to dirty blonde depending on time of year, but she was also about 5 feet 8 inches and very slim.
She was that tall? Gosh, I remember her as being shorter. But my memory is failing me.

I do remember her being very slim (in a healthy way).

[Thinkoflaura]

Dear Jenni,
I wrote a reply but WS ate it, LOL. I owe you a big apology.
You posted to me with grace and kindness. You are an example of a spirit filled lady.
I wrote my post with a few facts about someone who fleeced a lot of people and acted pitiful when she was, in fact, a multi- millionaire waiting on the money.
Let's say it was, in many ways, a " very Raven thing".

I think there is a parable/ cautionary tale of sorts here. I thought about it after I read your lovely reply to my post..
Maybe this is the way people who helped Raven feel, or will soon feel when someone from WS does the right thing and tells all the facts.
IF the facts had been known about what my friend did at the time, it would probably have gone much differently. I know we would have all prayed for her and her family to have the protection of the Spirit, and the intervention of the bishop and first elders might have humbled a proud and dishonest spirit.
I know the LDS church is giving and loving, but honesty in all things is a commandment. She was honest and kind until her mother, whom she was not close to, died and left her an amount of money which she had never had access to before.

My family can laugh off the ways she lied to us and used us now, and we gladly helped her generously without sacrifice because we could do so, but at the time, it was one stressful emergency in her life after the other for months and months, probably even a year. I saw her second grader standing in the cold and rain getting on the school bus beside a very busy highway and just broke down and cried. I would have taken her to school since her non- working mother wouldn't protect her safety, had I known.

All in all, I think the promise of such a large amount of "found money" corrupted something inside my friend's soul. She started neglecting her precious children, dismissed her loving and faithful husband of over 20 years, and used the church and her friends for her immediate wants. She lied about some of the same things Raven did, and for the same reason- money.

She was not marketable as a TV personality in our metro area, not even normally neat in appearance, yet she enrolled herself in a very expensive college to get a major in journalism/ broadcasting while taking her 2 older children out of BYU. She sacrificed her children's dream future for a pipe dream for herself. She has none of the attributes of the on- air personalities, except the gift of gab. It was the most inconsistent thing she did, but she thought she was the next Diane Sawyer. It was an ego thing. She did not see that she was very unsuited for the grandiose plans she had.
This too, reminds me of Raven.
I am being very objective when I say these things. It was shocking to see, because it was so obvious that her behavior was not reality- based.

So much happened with the lies and the taking from people.. Maybe this is how people who embraced Raven feel, in a way. Maybe that's why she came to mind in the first place, because I had not thought of her in quite some time.
My former friend borrowed my favorite car ( the newest luxury car) for weeks at the time to ferry her 4 children to their various schools. She said hers was in the shop, but I think that her husband managed to escape with at least a vehicle. She never even gave me a dollar for the gas or mileage or DIRTY interior when she returned it, nor did she ask any of her children to clean up their mess inside. I know she knew that we didn't NEED the money but it would have been admirable and is what I would have done had I been in the same situation. She bought a new Mercedes SUV which she drove up in and proudly showed us ( with the price sticker still on the window, LOL) and that was that. Of course, she compared her SUV to our luxury sedans and was really like a kid who doesn't know that bragging is rude ( or like Raven with his SUV).

Two of her older children had to come home from their freshman BYU orientation during her trials and tribulations. Her children, aged 6- 19, were tormented when she scrambled to divorce their very nice, mild mannered, LDS father because she didn't want him to have a penny of her mother's money. The children and the rest of us thought they were really happy. I was at their house quite often before her mother died and it was obvious that he loved her and their children dearly, and she was a good mother and wife by outward acts and gestures. He was such a gentle spirit.
The last time I saw their shared home, his things were packed in the garage and he was living in a church- sponsered men's apartment temporarily, while she was moving into her new mansion.

She sued HIM for child support. She issued a restraining order against him so that he could not access the home, or see the children.
She had her assets put in her father's name early to keep her husband from having any legal recourse to " jointly owned property". Her father lives over 1000 miles away and who will never live anywhere near her. ( he has remarried and has a nice second family). I know these things because I looked up the civil court action regarding their divorce and found all these other suits and motions and legal protections put around her by her LDS friend attorney.

I really liked and looked up to this lady as my friend. She was the Relief Society pres. at her ward at the time, which may have been a contributing factor as to why everything was wide open to her as far as material goods and money from the church.

I know that I have forgiven what she did, although I do not understand why money corrupted her to the point of being very duplicitious and horrible to everyone who loved her, especially her spouse and children.


ToL--I'm sorry, I was wrong. People do go shopping at the Bishop's Storehouse, however it's not a free for all (or it shouldn't be). Someone does have to go to their house, assess their needs and then fill out a form. Then the person receiving the aid takes the form, after it's been approved by their bishop, then they go to the storehouse and pick up the food. However, if the rules are followed, they are only supposed to get what they need for 2 weeks. If they only need 2 rolls of toilet paper, that's all they're supposed to take--not a whole 4 pack, just what they need.

I didn't mean to split hairs with youor to get off the main topic. But this is how the storehouse is supposed to work. Does it get abused? Probably. Is Raven taking advantage of this? Who knows, but I assume that Karyn and Jim's jobs should provide enough for themselves as well as Raven and Kaiden. They shouldn't be needing to use this storehouse as their grocery.

[Thinkoflaura]

Yes, Janet Marie Chrisitiansen had blonde hair, was tall, slim and very Beautiful.

Then I expect Wife #2 to look quite a lot like Janet, only younger (like 19 or so).
This scares me a lot. If you think about it, it would certainly help " appearances" at a murder trial if he had a new wife, a baby on the way, Kaiden in her lap, etc... I feel sick now.

[guera]

OK... I've been mulling this over in my head, but am I the only one who thought Raven did serve a mission? It was my understanding that he served and then came home for some reason, but now people are saying he didn't go at all? Did people close to Janet and/or Raven know that he didn't serve a mission? Or is this a lie that has now surfaced? :waitasec:

[Jenifred]

OK... I've been mulling this over in my head, but am I the only one who thought Raven did serve a mission? It was my understanding that he served and then came home for some reason, but now people are saying he didn't go at all? Did people close to Janet and/or Raven know that he didn't serve a mission? Or is this a lie that has now surfaced? :waitasec:
He received a mission call (somewhere in South America, I think), but never even made it to the MTC (Missionary Training Center--where missionaries stay for 2 weeks to 2 months depending on what language they need to teach in).

So, he got a mission call, but never served one day of it.

[juliagoulia]

Jenifred is right--he never served at ALL.

[terminatrixator]

OK... I've been mulling this over in my head, but am I the only one who thought Raven did serve a mission? It was my understanding that he served and then came home for some reason, but now people are saying he didn't go at all? Did people close to Janet and/or Raven know that he didn't serve a mission? Or is this a lie that has now surfaced? :waitasec: However, he did, in fact, tell SEVERAL people, he served a mission. That is another one of Raven's multiple lies. Misdemeanor, Felony, Warm, Cold, Hurt, Shot, he went on a mission, look at his resume, oh and yeah, he didn't kill Janet or his unborn child, and he didn't know Janet was pregnant, oh what else.....I could go on and on about it.

He cannot tell the truth, to save his soul.

Ummm Janet committed suicide, he told someone, Janet died he told another, anyone else care to add to this list?

[NCBanker]

You may be thinking of Mark Hacking who served a mission, but got sent home early for indiscretions involving women.



OK... I've been mulling this over in my head, but am I the only one who thought Raven did serve a mission? It was my understanding that he served and then came home for some reason, but now people are saying he didn't go at all? Did people close to Janet and/or Raven know that he didn't serve a mission? Or is this a lie that has now surfaced? :waitasec:

[terminatrixator]

You may be thinking of Mark Hacking who served a mission, but got sent home early for indiscretions involving women.

True, or maybe Guera heard that Raven did server a mission, because Raven actually TOLD people that he served a mission.

[guera]

Yeah... I heard that Raven had told people he had served a mission, but not a whole one, thus my confusion. This may not matter, but do we know if those close to Raven or Janet (family & friends) knew he hadn't gone? I'm just curious how far this lie went... although I guess uncovering another lie of his isn't that big of a deal.

[juliagoulia]

His family knew. They would have to know he didn't serve, because they would have been paying for it. Of course, his family is not known for their honesty either. They could be perpetuating the lie that he did serve part of a mission.

I don't have inside information about this, but I believe Janet knew as well. They were dating at the time.

[JerseyGirl]

Yeah... I heard that Raven had told people he had served a mission, but not a whole one, thus my confusion. This may not matter, but do we know if those close to Raven or Janet (family & friends) knew he hadn't gone? I'm just curious how far this lie went... although I guess uncovering another lie of his isn't that big of a deal.I wonder how he would have been able to lie about being on a mission even if only for a couple of months. Wouldn't people have noticed that he was never gone from home? And if he was gone from home, then where was he?

[terminatrixator]

Well, The Raven lies, period.

He could have told people that would have no way of knowing one way or the other, in little stories about his life, like acquaintances and such that he did indeed serve a mission.

I have heard from people that he did state to them that he served a mission and we know that many things that come out of his mouth are lies. I bet he doesn't even remember who he told what to, eventually in his criminalistic mind they probably become truths.

[RainbowsAndGumdrops]

Raven told me that he served a mission, but had to come home early. The conversation was so long ago, but I think that he said he had to come home for medical reasons. Perhaps I am just rude and nosy, but I asked if he was better and what he was sent home for and got no answer. At the time I dismissed it as none of my business. Now I know better.

[terminatrixator]

Medical reasons........he was too lazy and couldn't be tied down, he couldn't handle the pressure. Thanks again for your post & information Rainbow


Feel the pressure Raven, psychosamatic, addict, insane!

But not legally insane Raven, don't even try that excuse, what you did was Premeditated, Cold, Calculating, and you knew what you were doing, you planned it, every step of the Way........

Can you feel the pressure Raven, I hope it's eating you alive, but I'm sure if I looked into your eyes, there would be no real pain, no real sorrow, your eyes are dead Raven, your feelings are Dead, you are, in every sense of the word a sociopath, whatever terminology you prefer, you are the very definition a Psychopath!

What is a Psychopath?


"Psychopaths are social predators who charm, manipulate and ruthlessly plow their way through life, leaving a broad trail of broken hearts, shattered expectations without the slightest sense of guilt or regret. Their bewildered victims desperately ask, 'Who are these people?'"

We often think of psychopaths as the disturbed criminals who capture headlines and crowd the nation's prisons. But not all psychopaths are killers. They are more likely to be men and women you know who move through life with supreme self-confidence -- but without a conscience.

"What makes them the way they are? How can we protect ourselves?"
-- Robert D Hare, "Without Conscience"

Without Conscience: The Disturbing World of Psychopaths Among Us
Robert Hare, in his 1993 book says: "Psychopaths are social predators who charm, manipulate, and ruthlessly plow their way through life, leaving a broad trail of broken hearts, shattered expectations, and empty wallets."

"Completely lacking in conscience and feelings for others, they selfishly take what they want and do as they please, violating social norms and expectations without the slightest sense of guilt or regret."

"He will choose you, disarm you with his words, and control you with this presence. He will delight you with his wit and his plans. He will show you a good time, but you will always get the bill. He will smile and deceive you, and he will scare you with his eyes. And when he is through with you, and he will be through with you, he will desert you and take with him your innocence and your pride. You will be left much sadder but not a lot wiser, and for a long time you will wonder what happened and what you did wrong. And if another of his kind comes knocking at your door, will you open it?"
http://www.hare.org/index.html

[JerseyGirl]

Can you feel the pressure Raven, I hope it's eating you alive...No, because as is probably usual he hasn't been held accountable for his actions. As is probably standard, he has someone like Mommy to pick up his pieces. Raven thinks that he's smarter than everyone else, he believes that he's gotten away with this, and he probably hasn't spent one moment worrying that this will ever catch up with him. If Raven is indeed a psychopath, we'd better hope that he's eligible for the death penalty because he'll never be able to be "cured" and he'll never see the poison that he is.

"Psychopaths are social predators who charm, manipulate, and ruthlessly plow their way through life, leaving a broad trail of broken hearts, shattered expectations, and empty wallets... Completely lacking in conscience and feelings for others, they selfishly take what they want and do as they please, violating social norms and expectations without the slightest sense of guilt or regret."

[reportergirl]

ew,


Sorry it's been awhile since my last post. I'm sure the bishop in Utah knows everything surrounding the charges against Raven. As far as an affair, the bishop may speculate, but Raven would have to confess to the bishop for them to excommunicate him unless there is firm evidence. I personally am not completely convinced Raven had an actual sexual affair, based on my knowlege of their relationship from what his family has told me. I am also not convinced of his guilt concerning Janet's murder, however I do realize there are some seriously suspicious circumstances.

I feel it is easy for some of you fellow websleuthers to convict him on the web based on information released to the media. But, I know him personally, and I know his family. I do not speak for them, but I do know him as a kind hearted person who has obviously made some mistakes, which he appears to be paying for. He admitted to the current charges against him and he is paying for them. As far as any connection to the murder, as this point there have been no charges filed, therefore, he is presumed innocent in my book.

I wouldn't think the church would excommunicate him on the embezzelment charges alone. But an affair is certainly grounds for excommunication, if he has confessed to that.

Jenifred-- you 're still speculating whether Raven went on a mission, and I will again post, since I know firsthand, from what I remember, he recieved a call to I believe Peru. He didn't end up going. I think he met Janet around that same time. As far as the reason he did not go, I can not say for sure. But, both of his brothers did go on successful missions.

Let me know if there's anything else I can clear up.

[Moxie]

ew,


Sorry it's been awhile since my last post. I'm sure the bishop in Utah knows everything surrounding the charges against Raven. As far as an affair, the bishop may speculate, but Raven would have to confess to the bishop for them to excommunicate him unless there is firm evidence. I personally am not completely convinced Raven had an actual sexual affair, based on my knowlege of their relationship from what his family has told me. I am also not convinced of his guilt concerning Janet's murder, however I do realize there are some seriously suspicious circumstances.

I feel it is easy for some of you fellow websleuthers to convict him on the web based on information released to the media. But, I know him personally, and I know his family. I do not speak for them, but I do know him as a kind hearted person who has obviously made some mistakes, which he appears to be paying for. He admitted to the current charges against him and he is paying for them. As far as any connection to the murder, as this point there have been no charges filed, therefore, he is presumed innocent in my book.

I wouldn't think the church would excommunicate him on the embezzelment charges alone. But an affair is certainly grounds for excommunication, if he has confessed to that.

Jenifred-- you 're still speculating whether Raven went on a mission, and I will again post, since I know firsthand, from what I remember, he recieved a call to I believe Peru. He didn't end up going. I think he met Janet around that same time. As far as the reason he did not go, I can not say for sure. But, both of his brothers did go on successful missions.

Let me know if there's anything else I can clear up.reportergirl,

Even though I have a very different view of Raven, I appreciate you coming here and posting.

I do know for a fact that he did have sexual affairs while he was married to Janet. So he did commit adultery. I sincerely doubt that he will confess the honest truth to his bishop.

Only speaking for myself, I feel very confident in my statements about Raven. Based on what I have seen from him, I believe he has very distinct sides, facets really, that he displays to people. I believe very strongly that he is not a good person and that he is capable of not just adultery and embezzlement, but also murder. I believe these things because of factual information gleaned primarily from my exposure to Raven.

I do respect your opinion and I want you to know you are very welcome here. It is actually refreshing to have someone provide a differing opinion regarding Raven.

[RainbowsAndGumdrops]

I was only an associate of Raven through Janet and am conviced on his guilt. I liked Raven, so my initial reaction was disbelief, but now you couldn't convince me that Raven is innocent. However, I do know another one of Raven's friends who is also convinced that Raven is innocent with regard to the murder. This friend however, recognizes that Raven cheated on his wife, embezzled, constantly lied about everything, etc. but does not believe that Raven has it in him to commit murder.

On another note, I have heard through a reliable grapevine that the affair(s) were indeed sexual.

[RainbowsAndGumdrops]

Reportergirl,

You mentioned in an old post that you grew up with Raven. Most of us didn't know him/ know of him etc until after he was out of high school. Could you tell us all more about him? What was he like when you knew him. Was he the good looking, outgoing guy with all of the friends, was he the guy with the really cool toys that he loved to let people use, was he the perfect gentleman that would buy a highschool sweetheart a rose and take her to icecream, or was he the guy that would do anything for attention?

When I met him, I really liked him. His personality is very likable. He was easy to talk to and friendly with anyone that wanted to talk. Looking back at the things he said to me, i wonder if he simply says whatever will make you happy. I really think that there is/was a good side to Raven, but that he got so tied up in his lies, his "mistakes", etc. that he finally just snapped. Now that many of the pressures are off (he has family to raise Kaiden, and doesn't have to hear his wonderful wife ask about money or girls) I am wondering if he is acting a lot like he used to.

Any insights or thoughts would be appreciated.

[reportergirl]

Well, replying to all of you at once:)


I have known Raven since he was about 13 or 14. He's always been very good-looking, charismatic, etc., but I also saw the sincere side of him. Yes, he does like attention, and has a very stong desire to please everyone. He was popular, very involved in soccer, and very outgoing. The girls loved him, and the boys wanted to be his friend. I do think he felt a lot of pressure growing up to be successful, etc. I think he fears failure.

I have however seen some great acts of kindness on his part when no one was watching. I remember a time when he drove me home from school to where I found a horrible situation waiting for me with my mother, who without going into too much detail, needed immediate medical attention. Raven sat with me and waited for the ambulance to come, made sure I was alright, got me anything I needed, and then drove me back to school for a team practice. My father also had a lot of close contact with him as part of church callings (as a advisor) and he holds him in a very high esteem.

As far as toys go, no, no toys. His family didn't have a ton of money running around with several kids on both sides of a combined family (Jim and Karyn's from former marriages). I do think he saved up and bought a bullet bike while he was in high school-- what I got a ride home on.

I cannot say I have had a lot of contact with him since he moved away, but I would get periodic updates on everyone in the family from family members.

I have had a bit of a hard time reading some of the comments about his family. As a result, I have been a bit of a silent member here. I think very highly of them and think some posters here have been pretty harsh. It must be a horrible thing to have your lives torn apart by people whom you've never met because of something a member of your family is connected to. I however see the need for this in a way as a member of the media. I do ask that people have a bit more compassion toward his family's situation.

They have problems, very true. But when it comes down to it, everyone has skeletons in the closet. EVERYONE. I know his family, despite any problems they may have, to be a very good one. His parents, Jim (stepfather) and Karyn are good people who have done the best they can. And Karyn is very much a mother who protects her children. I cannot say I have agreed with everything they have done, but I love their family for who they are.

[reportergirl]

I forgot to comment about the affair. I think he would have come clean with his bishop about any affair when everything came crashing down with the embezzlement charges. I think he would have wanted a fresh start, which excommunication would provide. After excommunication, if you desire, you start a repentance process and can then get rebaptized, giving you a clean slate. I do not know what his current status is, the wards in that neighborhood changed boundaries within the last few years and my family is no longer in the same ward. But, I do believe his family would encourage him to take the necessary steps to move toward repentance.

[BirdHunter]

I forgot to comment about the affair. I think he would have come clean with his bishop about any affair when everything came crashing down with the embezzlement charges. I think he would have wanted a fresh start, which excommunication would provide. After excommunication, if you desire, you start a repentance process and can then get rebaptized, giving you a clean slate. I do not know what his current status is, the wards in that neighborhood changed boundaries within the last few years and my family is no longer in the same ward. But, I do believe his family would encourage him to take the necessary steps to move toward repentance.Sweetie, in a perfect world this may be true, but I can tell you Raven had plently of opportunity to confess to several bishops about the THREE affairs, all of them SEXUAL, that I personally know of. One of the bishops in North Carolina for Janet and Raven, knew about one affair, because Janet told him. But since Raven would not come in for a talk and then very quickly moved out of that church nothing was done. I did not know the Raven you describe. The Raven I know cheated on his wife, stole money from people who trusted him and is the only person I know who can look you in the eye and lie like the devil himself.

[terminatrixator]

A sociopath shows you exactly what he wants you to see.

I know I have been harsh on The Raven and his Mother, and for that I will NOT apologize. The rest of his family I believe are innocents and feel for them.

Justice will be served for Janet Marie Christiansen.

Seriously, Reportergirl, no signs of break in, nothing missing but the weapon and a laptop, husband comes home THESE ARE HIS WORDS, he find's wife, hurt, then shot, tells some she was still warm, then she was cold, the only thing missing is a weapon and a laptop. No money missing, no jewelry missing, no signs of forced entry, no fingerprints, no signs of anyone being in the home, but Janet, her six-month old child, the RAVEN PROVEN STORIES of AFFAIRS, and embezzlement CONVICTIONS.

If he had NOTHING to hide, why did he lawyer up IMMEDIATELY and REFUSE to take a polygraph. He moves out of state, comes back for his felony embezzlement hearing, raven SNUCK into town for it as it was pushed up a few days and he gets caught coming out with his LAWYER and the reporter asks questions and there is ABSOLUTELY no APPEAL to the PUBLIC FOR INFORMATION REGARDING HIS WIFE'S MURDER but he does say, in reference to his son, "he looks good!" Nice, real nice!

He runs immediately home to Utah, gets FIRED from his cellular job (why I wonder???) Now works in bike shop, while receiving social security payments, dating, going on bike trips (yes, he went to Moab) HE WENT ON SEVERAL TRIPS IN THE LAST 9 MONTHS, he left his child sitting home alone on his first Halloween, actually had the nerve to go to Janet's Homecoming to play in the Homecoming Soccer Game, all while NOT contacting LE, to find out what happened to his murdered wife who was carrying their second child.

Evidence was collected from the Durango, including a knife, a pawn shop ticket, scrappings from the tire of the Durango, the clothes Raven Abaroa was wearing - at the time (after his soccer game) were sent to forensics. A Subpoena to Google and email addresses were sent out and not sure of anything coming from that. He stated that he found her in a "kneeling position" paramedics found Janet laying on her back. He claims to have held her, told one person he tried to save her, told some she was still warm, told others she was cold, told someone he tried to give her a blessing, told some she died, told others she committed suicide, in fact he had contacted Janet's parents, and their FIRST news of Janet's death was she committed suicide, explain to me how one commits suicide by stabbing themselves that many times with a defensive wound? The list goes on and on and on..... I cannot reiterate enough, what part of him being sociopath doesn't everyone see?

Meanwhile, he's dating in Utah, buying equipment for his 1999 Ironman VX, purchases an extremely expensive cell phone, goes on bike trips, plays soccer, pawns his child off on anyone, flying across country to show his face at his Wife's Homecoming, and he gets the opportunity to share his grief with readers about the loss of his wife, in his ONE and ONLY interview almost 9 months after his wife's brutal murder and SOBS that people online are thinking his wife was weak and victimized.

Boy, does he have this wrong, Janet was a strong woman, and nobody that I know of thinks she was weak. But to say she wasn't victimized? I would say being Murdered in your home, while your husband is conveniently out "playing soccer" from 8:30 - 10:30 something (there is an approximately 20 minute drive to and 20 minute drive from soccer in Morrissville), along with any stop he may have made in between these drives (gatoraide found in his car), leaves approximately ONE hour to play soccer. Hardly worth the trip to come home and find your wife murdered.

As far as his statement about him and Janet being private people, that is not the truth. Prior to the murder of Janet Marie, Raven publicly belonged to SEVERAL ONLINE forums, including a VX forum, joined Reunion.com, Alta Highschool, Classmates.com and several other forums and he talked incessantly, playing out his private life with almost NO mention of having a wife and child, though in one forum he belonged to he was listed as "D" for Divorced, he also had several WEBSITES he ran, including the now defunct Ravenstree) for more information regarding this please check out http://huffcrimeblog.com/?cat=16

"I am moving the end of htis month and getting preasure from friends and family that I am shirking my responsibilities for entertainment.... NO, not me!!!!" R.A. - April 16, 2004

"... if it was up to me I'd keep the VX and the Durango." R.A. - January 20, 2005 Raven Abaroa

In closing for the day, I would love to leave you with this wondeful Christmas Video of 2003 http://www.zippyvideos.com/197162006300845.html - Yes, Raven is a shy and quiet guy, "Got myself a buck knife too, in case I run across a deer" December 2003 - Raven Abaroa

*side note the 3rd Vehicle, that there was no mention of in most articles, was not located at the home or the repair shop the day of the murder, while he was driving the Durango, Janet's vehicle was put in the shop for REPAIRS (that day!), he had another Vehicle, a 1999 Ironman VX, which was parked (where????) (Searched???)

[sociopath's don't like their prized possessions touched - things are more important than humans - I find it odd that this vehicle was nowhere near the home - it was parked somewhere]

So of course, he's innocent until proven guilty IN A COURT OF LAW, but God knows what he did and I have a feeling his Mother knows too and NOBODY will convince me of this otherwise.

Justice will be served ReporterGirl and I'm sorry that anything I say may hurt YOU, but I will NEVER apologize for what I say about Raven or his Mother, who raised a sociopath and covers up for him. He will be brought to Justice on EARTH and will NEVER make it to Heaven as God's punishment will be SWIFT and JUST!

[terminatrixator]

One more comment here, does anyone HONESTLY believe he would tell his Bishop about the Affairs or confess to killing his wife and her baby she was carrying?

He had NO choice but to confess to the embezzlement, they caught him RED HANDED, with his wife being murdered, he had NO choice but to confess to what he did. It was a PROVEN case before he stepped FOOT into the courthouse, there was no way to plead NOT GUILTY, and after his wife's murder and the forum here at Websleuths, Justice Magazine, LTU, Justice Sleuths, Crime Shots, Google Groups TALKING ABOUT THE EMBEZZLEMENT and the MURDER, and the PROOF that he embezzled - he couldn't talk his way out of that, no way, no how, especially when there was PRESSURE to confess to his bishop about the embezzlement because I would have MADE SURE the Bishop received a copy of the Embezzlement Felony Charges, that were accessible ONLINE and I would have dug up every amount of information I could have and sent it to him. Doh, confessing to the embezzlement is a NO BRAINER.

After he gets arrested and convicted of Murdering his Wife and Child, there will be no reason for him to confess to his Bishop because he will be locked away forever on Earth and eventually in Hell!

[terminatrixator]

Okay, I lied I have one more thing to say before I sign off, but hey I confessed so it's all good.

What difference does confessing to the Bishop about Embezzlements or let's say he finally confesses to his Bishop about the 3 KNOWN AFFAIRS, when he killed his wife. I mean seriously, he can confess eventually to his Bishop about the 3 affairs, but God still knows he premeditated killing his wife and child.

[ewwwinteresting]

ew,

Sorry it's been awhile since my last post. I'm sure the bishop in Utah knows everything surrounding the charges against Raven. As far as an affair, the bishop may speculate, but Raven would have to confess to the bishop for them to excommunicate him unless there is firm evidence. I personally am not completely convinced Raven had an actual sexual affair, based on my knowlege of their relationship from what his family has told me. I am also not convinced of his guilt concerning Janet's murder, however I do realize there are some seriously suspicious circumstances.

I feel it is easy for some of you fellow websleuthers to convict him on the web based on information released to the media. But, I know him personally, and I know his family. I do not speak for them, but I do know him as a kind hearted person who has obviously made some mistakes, which he appears to be paying for. He admitted to the current charges against him and he is paying for them. As far as any connection to the murder, as this point there have been no charges filed, therefore, he is presumed innocent in my book.

I wouldn't think the church would excommunicate him on the embezzelment charges alone. But an affair is certainly grounds for excommunication, if he has confessed to that.

Jenifred-- you 're still speculating whether Raven went on a mission, and I will again post, since I know firsthand, from what I remember, he recieved a call to I believe Peru. He didn't end up going. I think he met Janet around that same time. As far as the reason he did not go, I can not say for sure. But, both of his brothers did go on successful missions.

Let me know if there's anything else I can clear up.Thanks for responding RG. You are right there are some seriously suspicious circumstances regarding Janet's murder...which, I may point out, raven hasn't responded to or defended. How do you explain his silence regarding what happened to his wife and the mother of his child? Why isn't he speaking out for justice and pleaing for the public's help? There are plenty of reporters that would put out his story if he would talk. Why isn't he contacting LE or helping them with this case? Why didn't he put out a reward or help with one? He used the internet so much before her murder, why not set up a website to help find her killer? Sorry so many questions, I just don't get why such a "kind hearted person" would act this way!

[Moxie]

I forgot to comment about the affair. I think he would have come clean with his bishop about any affair when everything came crashing down with the embezzlement charges. I think he would have wanted a fresh start, which excommunication would provide. After excommunication, if you desire, you start a repentance process and can then get rebaptized, giving you a clean slate. I do not know what his current status is, the wards in that neighborhood changed boundaries within the last few years and my family is no longer in the same ward. But, I do believe his family would encourage him to take the necessary steps to move toward repentance.
Reporter Girl,

I know it takes a lot of courage on your part to come out here and post. I can understand it is hard for you to read things here and see information that is hard to comprehend. The hardest part is that it is fact based, and then people have their opinions regarding the facts. I know you care for Raven and I am glad he was good to you. Unfortunately, Raven doesn't show that side of him to everyone.

Raven can be very manipulative and deceitful. He only has power though, over those who care about him, and who want to believe him.

Please know you are welcome here and we are glad you are part of our board.

[snapple]

Well, replying to all of you at once:)


I have known Raven since he was about 13 or 14. He's always been very good-looking, charismatic, etc., but I also saw the sincere side of him. Yes, he does like attention, and has a very stong desire to please everyone. He was popular, very involved in soccer, and very outgoing. The girls loved him, and the boys wanted to be his friend. I do think he felt a lot of pressure growing up to be successful, etc. I think he fears failure.

I cannot say I have had a lot of contact with him since he moved away, but I would get periodic updates on everyone in the family from family members.

Thanks for the response RG. I know it may feel some posters are jumping on you, but I think it's just misdirected anger against raven. Please don't take it personal.

I found your post to be insightful, it seems that raven's qualities as a youth have been turned into pyschopath characteristics of his present. Maybe it happened because of his upbringing, maybe because of pressure, or maybe because his "wrong choices" left him without spiritual influence in his life.
Whatever the reason, the raven today seems to be a sad, pathetic shell of the person you saw in him.
Thanks for your post

[reportergirl]

Hola Everyone,


I am not defending Raven's actions. I only defend the criticism of his family. As I said, I haven't had direct contact with him in a very long time. I do know that he in manipulative, as I have seen for myself.

I do not think that he would confess murder to his bishop, if he is guilty, but I still do think he would confess an affair. It's just a gut feeling.

And, don't worry about my feelings-- I can handle it. But, I do wish you all would be a little more considerate of his family-- including his mother. I'm sure she is only trying to protect her son.

[terminatrixator]

Snapple, you made a very good point in your post to Reportergirl.

I have no anger towards Reportergirl, I really truly do not. I feel no anger towards Jim Bolton, Raven's siblings, aunts, uncles or even friends. I feel no anger towards anyone that feels Raven may be innocent.

My snappy remarks and sharp tongue and my obvious need for Anger Management Classes, are NOT intended to be directed towards any of the family members or friends of Raven Samuel Peters Abaroa they are directed squarely at The Raven. I will admit that I have issues with his Mother. She did not directly have a hand in committing the murder of Janet, but I feel the morals and the way she has raised Raven is indirectly related and I believe she is not a good or a moral person.

I do not intentionally mean to hurt friends or family members or those that believe in Raven's innocence, but I stand by my convictions that Raven is a sociopath and I do ask that all friends and family members look at Raven with Open Eyes and think of Janet and look at how Raven behaves and look at the inconsistencies that Raven spews and look INTO The Ravens eyes and see him for what he is, a pathological liar, a conniver, a sociopath and a psychopath a schemer, a thief and a murderer.

Please read up on sociopaths and then relate things he says and do a fair an honest assessment of him and then look at his behavior, prior to and after the brutal slaying of Janet and be HONEST with themselves.

I am pleading for them to realize that they have knowledge of inconsistent statements made by Raven, look at what he has done, and how his tears and sobs are not consistent, with his online writing the day before the murder. Look at the way he has handled everything, including not contact LE to enquire about the investigation. Look at the Fact that Raven has NOT taken a Lie Detector Test. Ask him why. Ask yourselves, would you take one. If you took a lie detector would you pass. Of course you would pass. Ask yourself if you took a lie detector test and a question asked is do you believe Raven may have committed the murder, would YOU PASS.

If you believe you would pass, then why would Raven NOT take this test to PROVE HIS INNOCENCE.

Ask yourselves, why he is not doing anything but getting on with his life, while the murder of his wife goes unsolved. Ask yourselves, why he spends so much money and continues to play soccer, work part-time jobs, and started dating, ask yourself how he can continually go out and about with his life without SCREAMING FOR JUSTICE for his wife.

I wish people would look at the facts, and start connecting the dots and really look long and hard at Raven his inconsistent statements, he led the family of Janet to believe she committed suicide AFTER SPENDING HOURS at the police station, that right there, should be enough to make you go hmmm. These are not unsubstantiated RUMORS, these are truths. Now I am asking the friends and the family and those that believe Raven is Stone Cold Innocent to look at the facts and see the real Raven.

[terminatrixator]

Hola Everyone,


I am not defending Raven's actions. I only defend the criticism of his family. As I said, I haven't had direct contact with him in a very long time. I do know that he in manipulative, as I have seen for myself.

I do not think that he would confess murder to his bishop, if he is guilty, but I still do think he would confess an affair. It's just a gut feeling.

And, don't worry about my feelings-- I can handle it. But, I do wish you all would be a little more considerate of his family-- including his mother. I'm sure she is only trying to protect her son.
Thank you for your post Reportergirl, I did not see it until after I wrote my post. I understand gut feelings, my point on confessing to the affairs though are this. He needs his Church. If an affair is excommunicable by Church Standards, he cannot afford to do this. He needs the Church, and truth is Kaiden needs it. I can send proof to the Church of his affairs, but have chose not to, because Kaiden needs whatever support the Church is offering to Raven, for the Support of Kaiden. That is why I have personally CHOSEN not to report to his Bishop in Utah. If Raven is excommunicated by his Church, any help he may be receiving for KAIDEN may be lost, and I would not be able to forgive myself if I caused Kaiden any harm.

[reportergirl]

Termi-

It totally depends on the degree to which the affair was committed whether or not a preisthood council decides to excommunicate someone. Also, I believe Raven would have an opportunity to defend himself in front of the council. He could confess part of the affair, or all of it. He could have shown a lot of remourse for his actions. If he truly did have 3 sexual affairs, then excommunication is probably the best thing for him. It's a good thing-- it gives the person a chance to start over, repent, and get rebaptized.

How do you all know he has started to date again? I've seen the evidence that he went on a trip, but how do we know he's dating?

Also, I have worked with a lot of grieving families after a tragedy-- including some pretty gruesome murders. I have tried to interview them. From a media standpoint, often people don't realize that's it's better for them if they come out to the media. A: we can help them get vitial information out in the public, B: if they do come out, the media will often back off a bit if they give them something to work with, C: It helps their innocence.

But, I can't tell you how many times people close up-- most of the time they close up. They think it's better if they close off-- like it will just go away if they ignore it all.

That's why it is insignificant to me that he has not come out to the media. MOST people do not right away, or even months after. Some never do. And I bet his attorney has advised him to stay out of the media spotlight.

[terminatrixator]

Well to my belief intercourse is an affair, as is any other sexual acts. We do know he had them.

He has dated since the murder of Janet. There is proof of this too.

I believe you are right, as he did lawyer up immediately and I am very sure he was told to keep his mouth shut and to keep a low profile, that's his lawyers job, and a very wise attorney indeed. Low profile also does not include showing up at Bike Fests, getting fired from Cingular and dating.

[reportergirl]

Right you are, his actions are quite suspicious. I would like to know who he's been dating.


I was saying that if he did confess to an affair, he could have just confessed parts of it, making it not sound quite as bad and showing remorse, therefore, not making it grounds for excommunication.

Was he working at Cingular in Utah? How do you know he was fired? Which store?

[ewwwinteresting]

Also, I have worked with a lot of grieving families after a tragedy-- including some pretty gruesome murders. I have tried to interview them. From a media standpoint, often people don't realize that's it's better for them if they come out to the media. A: we can help them get vitial information out in the public, B: if they do come out, the media will often back off a bit if they give them something to work with, C: It helps their innocence.
RG: Maybe he will open up to you and you can help get his information out there. It sounds like he would trust you and you having experience helping others in this circumstances. Help him get that vital information out in the public...to help catch the murderer...it could clear his name!

[ewwwinteresting]

Hola Everyone,


I am not defending Raven's actions. I only defend the criticism of his family. As I said, I haven't had direct contact with him in a very long time. I do know that he in manipulative, as I have seen for myself.

I do not think that he would confess murder to his bishop, if he is guilty, but I still do think he would confess an affair. It's just a gut feeling.

And, don't worry about my feelings-- I can handle it. But, I do wish you all would be a little more considerate of his family-- including his mother. I'm sure she is only trying to protect her son.
Wasn't it his mother that was begging for money at Janet's funeral? Wasn't it his mother that opened up a trust fund within hours of hearing of the murder? Maybe she wasn't that close to Janet or didn't like her and so it was no big deal?? I don't know.....to me, it just seems like odd behavior.

[terminatrixator]

Right you are, his actions are quite suspicious. I would like to know who he's been dating.


I was saying that if he did confess to an affair, he could have just confessed parts of it, making it not sound quite as bad and showing remorse, therefore, not making it grounds for excommunication.

Was he working at Cingular in Utah? How do you know he was fired? Which store? He has dated more than once since returning to Utah, and I really hope that the women of Utah are warned about him.

Thanks for explaining the excommunication issue with me, my concern is for Kaiden and him getting all the aid he can at this time.

Yes He worked for Cingular Wireless in Utah and yes he was fired, canned, let go, dismissed. He did get a fancy new cell phone from his time there. I believe it was the Draper Cingular, but I have to research this again. This was during the embezzlement, after that he went to work for Canyon Cycles, working part-time, but I believe he may have started working more hours.

[terminatrixator]

Wasn't it his mother that was begging for money at Janet's funeral? Wasn't it his mother that opened up a trust fund within hours of hearing of the murder? Maybe she wasn't that close to Janet or didn't like her and so it was no big deal?? I don't know.....to me, it just seems like odd behavior.
Yes a trust fund was set up HOURS I believe on the 27th, Janet was Murdered on the 26th by the family of Raven Abaroa, I believe Jim Bolton is the Executor on this trust fund.
----
A scholarship has been established in Janet's memory to benefit a student-athlete on the women's soccer team.
Gifts made to the SVU Development Office in Janet's memory will be used to establish the Janet Christiansen Abaroa Pioneer Scholarship.


To contribute to this scholarship, checks should be made out to Southern Virginia University, with a notation that the gift is in memory of Janet Christiansen Abaroa.


On-line donations can also be made through the Development Office Website. When donating on-line, check the box listed as "Other" and write Janet Christiansen Abaroa Pioneer Scholarship in the text box.


http://www.southernvirginia.edu/d1/?q=makeagift


Checks should be sent to:

SVU Development Office
One University Hill Drive
Buena Vista, VA 24416

For additional scholarship information, contact (540) 261-2782

[aussiegran]

I and others have said it before how similar this is too Snott peterson ,everyone thought he was SOOO wonderful to her and such a lovely person-He could never harm Laci and then the truth surfaced about him .The TRUTH will come out about THE RAVEN too .sociopaths are capable of fooling a lot of people but (you can only fool some of the people some of the time. )

[Moxie]

Wasn't it his mother that was begging for money at Janet's funeral? Wasn't it his mother that opened up a trust fund within hours of hearing of the murder? Maybe she wasn't that close to Janet or didn't like her and so it was no big deal?? I don't know.....to me, it just seems like odd behavior.
Hi Ew,

I was there and heard Raven's mother, Karyn Abaroa-Bolton speak at Janet's service. She did mention the memorial fund.

Not to be critical of Karyn, but her demeanor was strange. It was like she was almost upbeat as she spoke of Kaiden and the memorial fund. I did not get the impression that she knew Janet well at all. She might have been glad to have Raven back under her wing, I don't know.

She did not come across in any way as a grieving relative.

[reportergirl]

Okay, as far as Karyn sounding up beat and almost happy that Janet was dead, that is quite ridiculous. Seriously, that's just her way of dealing with things-- to try and sound upbeat. Maybe she just wanted to focus on Kaiden and the life left here.

[terminatrixator]

Reporter, I don't think that Moxie stated that Karyn was Happy that Janet was dead. However, you stated yourself, that being upbeat was Karyn's way of dealing with things.

While she may be UPBEAT as is her way of dealing with things, she has Kaiden. Her son came home, toting Janet's baby, and he pawned his son off on his Mother, and anyone who would be willing to watch him.

All the while the family of Janet were left to grieve the loss of their Daughter, their Sister, their Aunt, their Cousin, their Friend, and get NO time with Kaiden, and having to worry all the time that the MURDERER may very well be raising this baby!

Where's her grief? Where's her heartache? Has she ONCE contacted Law Enforcement demanding to know the status of her DAUGHTER-IN-LAWS AND UNBORN GRANDCHILD'S MURDER?

She could have been a grandmother to a little girl or another little boy but SHE WILL NEVER GET TO SEE THIS CHILD, because her son decided to kill his wife and unborn child!

I heard from numerous people that Karyn did not act like someone that was grieving and she said and did things that were inappropriate considering the loss of her MURDERED daughter-in-law.

Nonetheless, this is not about Karyn, this is about Raven and his behavior before, during and after the MURDER of his WIFE and UNBORN CHILD, which has been highly inappropriate, disgusting, sickening and he makes me :sick:.

[reportergirl]

Nonetheless, this is not about Karyn, this is about Raven and his behavior before, during and after the MURDER of his WIFE and UNBORN CHILD has been highly inappropriate, disgusting, sickening and he makes me :sick:.

I couldn't have said it better myself. This isn't about Karyn, or anyone else in his family and their actions. This is about finding out who murdered Janet-- so let's stick to that and leave the actions of his family out of it.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all about getting to the truth. But, I'm a stickler for the facts and to convict Raven without any firm evidence is just against my nature

Hope no hard feelings:)

[LTUlegal]

I'm gonna step in here and just say this...I think that as far as Raven's family is concerned, apparently they love him unconditionally, which is what most families would/should do.

Most of us feel he's guilty and in the end, Raven is the one who chose to commit murder, not his mother. Sure, she's the one who raised him, and she deveoloped raven into the person he is today...she might not win the 'mother of the year' award, but as far as we know, she didn't kill Janet. It sounds to me as though she supports raven no matter what he does, and I suppose that's more than many mothers. Does she know raven's secret? I, personally, think she might. Will she protect him until the end? I'm certain.

Though we have no control over what happens in this case, we can argue until the cows come home and it's not going to bring Janet and her unborn baby back to her loving family...if only it would.

It's fortunate for raven that it seems he has such a wonderful support system. I think he'll really need that in the future.

Rg, I hope you aren't scared away...it's nice to have some lively debate. Thank you for not taking it to hard! ;)

[ewwwinteresting]

Hi Ew,

I was there and heard Raven's mother, Karyn Abaroa-Bolton speak at Janet's service. She did mention the memorial fund.

Not to be critical of Karyn, but her demeanor was strange. It was like she was almost upbeat as she spoke of Kaiden and the memorial fund. I did not get the impression that she knew Janet well at all. She might have been glad to have Raven back under her wing, I don't know.

She did not come across in any way as a grieving relative.
I remember you stating that Mox and understand what you mean about her behavior...not that she was glad Janet was dead but was going to make the best of the situation - which, unfortuantely, ended up with financial requests. Still absurd in my book! I'm sorry but for a relative to think "financially" within hours of a young pregnant mom being murder is one of those things that makes you go hmmm. I think we have to look at that action and wonder did raven confess to her?

[ewwwinteresting]

Don't get me wrong, I'm all about getting to the truth. But, I'm a stickler for the facts and to convict Raven without any firm evidence is just against my nature
You think you could help raven get to the truth RG? Help out with explaining all the circumstancial evidence (which by the way is what convicted SP, not "firm evidence") that surrounds him? Would he trust you as a reporter?

[terminatrixator]

I understand your point and no offense taken. My feelings don't get hurt, and I'm not sensitive in that way. I am sensitive to murder however.

Reportergirl, read the threads, do some investigating. If a bunch of people online at Websleuths can find this much evidence against him, then maybe it's time someone that knows the family starts investigating.

Contact Durham LE, I have put the number on WS on SEVERAL occasions. Look into his past, if I can find the proof of his affairs from California, I'm sure you could too.

Investigate and find out who Raven told what to. Who did he tell that Janet was warm, who did he tell she was cold, why did he lead people to believe she committed suicide, who did he tell she died to.

He has told others he completed a mission, he told others he left because of anxiety others for a medical reason, find them, the information is around, look for it. He led people to believe he was purchasing that home, not renting it.

He embezzled and lied about it and was forced to come clean, but has he lifted his finger to ask for help in solving his wife's murder?

He's played soccer, played volleyball, gone on bike trips, dated, there's tons of information out there. Look at the known facts, no signs of break-in, past affairs, nothing missing but a laptop, he leaves her home WITH NO VEHICLE, his precious VX is nowhere near the home, he's driving the durango, she was hurt, she was shot, I've got myself a bucknife.

Janet was dressed in her home, her son in the crib, why would she be up in the room, and let someone in? Nobody broke in. She did not even PUT UP A FIGHT, why because she knew the person in the home and she did not SEE that she was going to be stabbed brutally by the man that married her. She did not fight, is this the Janet you knew, that would stand there with a stranger in a room? Lead a person she don't know near her child? This was not a woman who did this, she did not have a boyfriend, she did not have enemies, this was not a burglary, this was not a church member, there was only one person that could have committed this crime.

You want facts look for them, if you think it's not your job but LE's then fine, but at this point, we are LOOKING for the facts and have compiled them and are faced with one conclusion, that Raven Samuel Peters Abaroa killed his Wife and unborn child, he premeditated it.

[ewwwinteresting]

I understand your point and no offense taken. My feelings don't get hurt, and I'm not sensitive in that way. I am sensitive to murder however.

Reportergirl, read the threads, do some investigating. If a bunch of people online at Websleuths can find this much evidence against him, then maybe it's time someone that knows the family starts investigating.

Contact Durham LE, I have put the number on WS on SEVERAL occasions. Look into his past, if I can find the proof of his affairs from California, I'm sure you could too.

Investigate and find out who Raven told what to. Who did he tell that Janet was warm, who did he tell she was cold, why did he lead people to believe she committed suicide, who did he tell she died to.

He has told others he completed a mission, he told others he left because of anxiety others for a medical reason, find them, the information is around, look for it. He led people to believe he was purchasing that home, not renting it.

He embezzled and lied about it and was forced to come clean, but has he lifted his finger to ask for help in solving his wife's murder?

He's played soccer, played volleyball, gone on bike trips, dated, there's tons of information out there. Look at the known facts, no signs of break-in, past affairs, nothing missing but a laptop, he leaves her home WITH NO VEHICLE, his precious VX is nowhere near the home, he's driving the durango, she was hurt, she was shot, I've got myself a bucknife.

Janet was dressed in her home, her son in the crib, why would she be up in the room, and let someone in? Nobody broke in. She did not even PUT UP A FIGHT, why because she knew the person in the home and she did not SEE that she was going to be stabbed brutally by the man that married her. She did not fight, is this the Janet you knew, that would stand there with a stranger in a room? Lead a person she don't know near her child? This was not a woman who did this, she did not have a boyfriend, she did not have enemies, this was not a burglary, this was not a church member, there was only one person that could have committed this crime.

You want facts look for them, if you think it's not your job but LE's then fine, but at this point, we are LOOKING for the facts and have compiled them and are faced with one conclusion, that Raven Samuel Peters Abaroa killed his Wife and unborn child, he premeditated it.
Good post Term. It's either look at the facts we have uncovered or post some new ones. We would gladly look at other facts or other circumstancial evidence...there just hasn't been anybody willing to post them or can't post them because there aren't any!

[LTUlegal]

And there you have it.


:clap: Trixie

[JustJax]

Janet was dressed in her home, her son in the crib, why would she be up in the room, and let someone in? Nobody broke in. She did not even PUT UP A FIGHT, why because she knew the person in the home

Trixie, this is something that has always stood out, no signs of a struggle or break in. As a Mother, if an intruder was in my home, I would have fought tooth and nail with my baby in the next room, as I am sure Janet Marie would have, had her murderer been unknown to her.

[BirdHunter]

Okay, as far as Karyn sounding up beat and almost happy that Janet was dead, that is quite ridiculous. Seriously, that's just her way of dealing with things-- to try and sound upbeat. Maybe she just wanted to focus on Kaiden and the life left here.If Karyn cared even the littlest bit that Janet had been murdered why has she not contacted Durham LE and followed up on what was being done to bring justice to the murder of Kaiden's mother. I can tell you she has not! I'm going with Moxie's impression on this one. (If you throw water on her she will melt).

[BirdHunter]

I couldn't have said it better myself. This isn't about Karyn, or anyone else in his family and their actions. This is about finding out who murdered Janet-- so let's stick to that and leave the actions of his family out of it.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all about getting to the truth. But, I'm a stickler for the facts and to convict Raven without any firm evidence is just against my nature

Hope no hard feelings:)No hard feelings RG. I have a personal connection to this case as it seems you do as well. If you are a stickler for the facts, I would kindly suggest that you contact Officer Vaughn here in NC and identify yourself to him, let him know what you know. Tell him of your concerns. He can be reached at 919-560-4440 ext. 247. I called, it was very therapeutic.

[ewwwinteresting]

I and others have said it before how similar this is too Snott peterson ,everyone thought he was SOOO wonderful to her and such a lovely person-He could never harm Laci and then the truth surfaced about him .The TRUTH will come out about THE RAVEN too .sociopaths are capable of fooling a lot of people but (you can only fool some of the people some of the time. )
You are right about the unbelievable similarities between SP and raven. Good to see you here aussie.

[ewwwinteresting]

:laugh: I'm going with Moxie's impression on this one. (If you throw water on her she will melt).
And we also know, in most cases, the "apple" doesn't fall far from the "tree". In this case it seems it's right next to it!

[Justgimmethetruth]

You mean WORMY???
http://vadeker.club.fr/humanite/apercu/worm_apple.jpg

[ewwwinteresting]

You mean WORMY???
http://vadeker.club.fr/humanite/apercu/worm_apple.jpg

LOL! A very wormy apple from a very wormy tree:sick:

[terminatrixator]

I think it's high time that Raven or his family or friends contact Detective Vaughn at 919-560-4440 ext. 247. Heck, if you don't want to talk to him you can contact his boss Seargent Cates, I'm sure he wouldn't mind speaking to The Raven or his friends or Family.

How about Raven going to take a lie detector test, I'll volunteer, in front of him to take the test too. I'll look him square in the eye and guess which one of us will pass and which one won't though.

I'm serious, I would be willing to travel to NC and sit in a room with The Raven and take a polygraph test while he watches.

I can guarantee you I'll pass it, can Raven?

I'll you give you a clue for free, he wouldn't pass and doesn't have the courage to take me up on it.

[lauriej]

..sounds like a challenge trix..and a good one at that.......IF raven is innocent-----------why on earth wouldn't he take the lie detector test ???

..for that matter---how could he have left NC, without constantly hounding LE for details of the murder investigation?? or, being the computer savvy guy that he was........not put something together once in Utah to keep the case alive, and help get justice for the love of his life ??
..he didn't..stay in NC..or do anything crime related once in Utah....and that's the part that really bothers me-------------he "got it over it" SOOOO quickly.......

..RG, and RAG have both given examples of raven's "goodness".........well, i know i have--surely we all have---known people over the years that can be very good hearted in some circustance-------------and then totally cruel in others...(doesn't make them a murderer of course, but does show how how a person can totally change in an instant).

..sorry RG.............but we are talking about a sociopath here--------how he was raised----------and his Mother's role in this does come into play......

[BirdHunter]

Reporter Girl, you say that Raven's brothers both served successful missions for your church? This web blog belongs to Raven's younger brother Derek. It is recent (this past month) "Lucy you got some splaining to do." Seriously, this does not sound like any mormon missionary I have ever had contact with. Maybe you should recheck your facts.

O Discordia Tour day-by-day update

January 5th- over fields of grain and low stumbling block boulders and red brick canyons we found ourselves in St George sun bathed by cool north breezes and playing music in Grampa's basement to a smiling crowd and whiskey and cokes. Found a couch to sleep on, a shower to use, and a tree fort in the backyard to smoke spliff's out of and contemplate love and Hitler. So far so good, viva la O Discordia!

january 10th- ah Tucson was a dream, great little town, we stayed in a camper and nearly froze to death, then the next night stayed with some anarcho-comunist kids, ate vegan food and played for them around a bonfire, then back on the road, seeing america through a bus window is hard work. things are going good, havent made much money but we've been drowning in adventure, the border patrol arrested me for having pot, their dog sniffed it out, they were cool though, they dropped the charges and let me go, and drove me to town, tom stayed on the bus and pretended not to know me, i met up with him later in san diego, heh, adventures. tomarrow we head for portland...

Jan 12th- found a place to crash last night in Portland, met some cool kids, got horribly drunk and high, ate shrooms, did a great interview on the Portland State college radio station, got pb&j sandwiches and whiskey for the road, yaaaaaa, tomarrow we play in Olympia WA.

Jan 13th- our show last night was great, we had a whole venue of kids stomping and clapping and completely drowning tom and i out, it was a great show, we then partied with the kids, and found a couch to crash on, ah glory! that was olympia.

Jan ?- forgot the date, maybe the 15th, slept in SLC for the night, played a house show in Wyoming the next day, made bank but damn it was cold, heading east now

Jan 17th- played in Omaha at ted & wallys, good show, drunken after party, i personally had a great time in Nebraska, in fact i'm going back to couch surf and play music sometime, yaaaaa.

Jan 19th- played in st louis, show at the jazz & blues bar, good show but my god the after party was in an abandoned apartment and those kids were crazy! binge drinking i-hate-you-dad kids, we bought two cases of forties, tom got coke in the kitchen, i got free shrooms, we smoked a blunt and slept on cigarette butts, ugh i'm still recovering.

Jan 20th- cancled the Chicago show, it was snowing, and our bus was late, sorry Chicago, off to NYC!

Jan ?- spent the night walking around the bowery and china town, couldn't contact anyone, froze to death in shina town at 5am, finally slept for an hour in the bus station before the security kicked us out,

Jan ?- played in upstate NY in white plains, good anarchist house show, young kids though and it was hard to find a place to crash until angel kelly convinced her grandparents that we were her old camp counslers on our way to england(?), heh got fed, alot, score!

the next day- met with some friends, smoked pot in central park, drank alot (but couldn't get drunk, it's frustrating) found a place to sleep, had to sneak in though so her parents wouldn't know we were there, ugh i hope we don't end up in prison after this whole fiasco, eh.

Jan 24- we played at Bubbys in Brooklynn, had free drinks, got drunk well before the show and stumbled through a set, we smoked a blunt under a playground and walked across the brooklynn bridge in the rain, slept in a basement in Tribeca, ah finally New York treated us well, onto a bus, off to Virginia, got on the wrong bus, ugh now we're stranded the whole night in Richmond, yaaaaaa.

Jan 24(continued)- hah so funny story, we snuck into a Holiday Inn in Richmond virginia, 10pm, got some forties, checked our emails in their office and squatted in an empty banquet room smoking and drinking, it was great, until 3 hours later they found us, we played innocent dumb and they kicked us out, the rest of the night was spent sleeping at the bus station.

Jan 25- Virginia Beach VA is cold, a biting wind tearing at our flesh we went into hotels looking for a continental breakfast, no such luck, so no where to go, no couch to sleep on tonight, we wander like lost bedouins lookinf for food and warmth,

[JerseyGirl]

I couldn't have said it better myself. This isn't about Karyn, or anyone else in his family and their actions. This is about finding out who murdered Janet-- so let's stick to that and leave the actions of his family out of it.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all about getting to the truth. But, I'm a stickler for the facts and to convict Raven without any firm evidence is just against my nature

Hope no hard feelings:)Reportergirl, I'm so glad that you're back on the boards. It really has been refreshing, reading the back and forth posts with differing opinions. Maybe we could even be on the verge of discussing some alternate possibilities. Whatever happens, I want you to know that I welcome you and anything you have to say.

About Raven's family - I can understand why it disturbs you somewhat that his family has been brought up. But please understand - you know the family personally so your views are tainted by what you believe you already know about the family. At the same time, our views are also probably not quite right because we don't know the real people or the real dynamics involved. On both sides, our views and opinions are probably not 100%. Regardless, our views and opinions are not only allowed on these boards; it's what keeps the boards running.

I will apologize if anything I've said has upset you or if anything I say in the future will upset you. But I believe that the dynamics of the family are very pertinent to this case. Raven does not exist in a vaccuum - he's a product of genetics and upbringing. His experiences and interactions have helped to form the person that he is. If people he's known have modeled the behavior that we see in him, that's pertinent. If people he's known have enabled him (or continue to do so), that's pertinent. All of these things matter and have an influence. I hope that your personal connection to the family will not make it too painful for you to read what's being said but please understand that in the context of these boards, the issues we're discussing are appropriate.

[SouthEastSleuth]

I remember you stating that Mox and understand what you mean about her behavior...not that she was glad Janet was dead but was going to make the best of the situation - which, unfortuantely, ended up with financial requests. Still absurd in my book! I'm sorry but for a relative to think "financially" within hours of a young pregnant mom being murder is one of those things that makes you go hmmm. I think we have to look at that action and wonder did raven confess to her?
I've always wondered about this EI - does Karyn, or someone in the family, actually know the truth about what happened that night, and, Raven's involvement. I think many mothers would do anything to protect their child, perhaps even in a criminal situation, and Karyn certainly strikes me, from what we hear, as being a mother that's all about protecting her brood! Makes you wonder - if possible, it might be interesting to see what various Abaroa-Bolton family members themselves would have to say to LE in a little sit-down situation!!!

[JerseyGirl]

..for that matter---how could he have left NC, without constantly hounding LE for details of the murder investigation?? or, being the computer savvy guy that he was........not put something together once in Utah to keep the case alive, and help get justice for the love of his life ??Exactly - for his family that was "taken from" him; for his wife that was "the epitome" of what a woman should be. He was so torn up over this that he turned to the church and went to grief counseling. If he was able to open up and speak about this to a therapist, why couldn't he set up a web page in her memory on his own? In fact, I'm suprised that a therapist wouldn't suggest it for therapeutic value, if nothing else.

[reportergirl]

No, I know he (Derek) served a mission, to the East or West Indies. And, I know he did a great job. He was even on seminary council in high school, a board of students that serves on a leadership council for high school seminary-- at Alta High School.

I am quite aware of his actions recently-- I've read the blog as well. It's sad for me because I know him and was actually good friends with him, but he's always had a, shall I say, unique spirit. Just because he isn't active now, doesn't mean he wasn't active then. He was actually quite involved in the church.

[reportergirl]

About Raven's family - I can understand why it disturbs you somewhat that his family has been brought up. But please understand - you know the family personally so your views are tainted by what you believe you already know about the family. At the same time, our views are also probably not quite right because we don't know the real people or the real dynamics involved. On both sides, our views and opinions are probably not 100%. Regardless, our views and opinions are not only allowed on these boards; it's what keeps the boards running.

I will apologize if anything I've said has upset you or if anything I say in the future will upset you. But I believe that the dynamics of the family are very pertinent to this case. Raven does not exist in a vaccuum - he's a product of genetics and upbringing. His experiences and interactions have helped to form the person that he is. If people he's known have modeled the behavior that we see in him, that's pertinent. If people he's known have enabled him (or continue to do so), that's pertinent. All of these things matter and have an influence. I hope that your personal connection to the family will not make it too painful for you to read what's being said but please understand that in the context of these boards, the issues we're discussing are appropriate.
First, thanks for the welcome. And, don't worry, nothing you've said has offended me. Secondly, I so understand your point about upbringing and genetics, but I just can't disagree more.

I myself am a product of adoption. My birthmother, whom I just located, is unfortunetly quite a lousy person. My adopted mother is also quite a lousy person and was quite abusive, well, always. Granted, my father is a saint, but my siblings and I endured some miserable circumstances. And, I feel I am quite normal, as are my siblings.

Raven has several siblings that grew up in similar circumstances, and some of them are amazing people-- some of the best I know.

I am a firm believer that yes, our life experiences shape who we are, as do our genetics to a degree, but when it comes down to it, free agency plays the biggest role. If Raven is indeed guilty of murder, I do not believe it's because of his family or genetics.

[reportergirl]

Hey, I don't know if ya'll saw this, but I found online the other day a story by a NC newspaper or TV station that did a phone interview with Raven regarding the murder. Have you already seen this? I'll try and find it again and post the link.

[reportergirl]

http://www.newsobserver.com/722/story/392400.html

[BirdHunter]

No, I know he (Derek) served a mission, to the East or West Indies. And, I know he did a great job. He was even on seminary council in high school, a board of students that serves on a leadership council for high school seminary-- at Alta High School.

I am quite aware of his actions recently-- I've read the blog as well. It's sad for me because I know him and was actually good friends with him, but he's always had a, shall I say, unique spirit. Just because he isn't active now, doesn't mean he wasn't active then. He was actually quite involved in the church.What you are saying really BOTHERED me (that a person would be a LDS missiona