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Jayelles
12-23-2003, 08:27 AM
I read with disbelief your post at yonder forum regarding babysitters and food preparation. Have you any experience with babysitters? With teenagers.

You say that the members at yonder forum are a terrific bunch and you cited as an example the fact that they didn't believe a (im) poster who claimed to have babysat for the Ramseys. You say this poster was disbelieved because a) the Ramseys didn't have many babysitters and b) babysitters can't never mind don't cook food for their babysittees.

The latter is RUBBISH!

Now I will conceded that I am not familiar with the poster in question, but I will say this - teenagers can and do raid freezers in order to find food to cook and eat. I don't know of a single teenager (and I know hundreds rather well) who can't heat a pizza or fry a burger. Most can rustle up spag-bol or do a stir-fry nowadays too!

I have had numerous babysitters over the years - ranging from 16 year olds with boyfriends who raided our freezer for steaks and didn't wash up after himself - to a 60+ year old who not only babysits and cooks if necessary, but who also does my ironing if there is any.

My 16 year old daughter can cook (properly - not just freeze-reheat stuff) and she would prepare a proper meal if necessary. She often prepares the family meal and enjoys doing so. My 19 year old son did a year of hospitality and his cooking skills are even more developed. He can make soups and stews. The members of our local babysitting circle are all parents who would certainly prepare food for their charges. I occasionally babysit and I would definitely ensure my little charges had a hot meal inside them rather than feed them on biscuits and crisps.

Unless the Ramseys themselves denied that this person had ever babysat for them, I would certainly not dismiss the possibility on the reasons you give. Your assumption that this poster was an imposter on the basis that babysitters "can't never mind don't" cook shows yourself and your fellow members to be the naive ones.

Now, I have no idea if the poster in question was a teenager, but as much as anything, teenage babysitters like to feed themselves as well as the children in their care. They are eating machines.

The problem is not getting them to prepare the food - it's getting them to clear up afterwards - now THAT is a rarity.

Nehemiah
12-23-2003, 09:17 AM
Hey Jayelles, I have to second your reply about the cooking babysitters. I have had them to eat me out of house and home. They drink sodas all day long, and whip up French fries, frozen pizzas, macaroni and cheese, and whatever else they can find to prepare (and usually not clean up very well). "Eating machines" is right!

What was said by the former R babysitter, that is unbelieved at the Double B? Can you spare me the ride over there?

why_nutt
12-23-2003, 10:44 AM
From a thread on google groups, anyone can find it for themselves by googling up the phrase "how much does your babysitter get paid?":

My daughter, 14, does babysitting. She follows a policy of allowing her customers to set the rate, whatever they feel is right. She is certified by the Red Cross from their babysitting class. She often cooks dinner for the kids, and is careful to follow the parents' instructions. For this she gets around $6 an hour for 2 children, depending on the customer. Minimum wage in Oregon is more than that.

Jayelles
12-23-2003, 01:05 PM
Nehemiah - I never saw the thread in question. Toth alludes to it in a post explaining why he thinks the BB posters are "superior".

I have no idea whether the poster who claimed to be a Ramsey babysitter was a teenager or an adult who babysits for extra cash. There are plenty of adults who babysit professionally. My childminder does. She babysits for overnights and weekends. She offered to babysit Tootsie for us when we went on our 20th anniversary cruise.

Shawna
12-23-2003, 04:29 PM
This is from Human Resoures Canada about the duties babysitters have.

Babysitters perform some or all of the following duties:

# Supervise and care for children in the absence of regular caregiver

# Bathe, diaper and feed infants and children

Organize games, activities and outings to provide amusement and exercise

May perform housekeeping duties and prepare meals for children according to employer's instructions.

Anyone see the posting on yonder forum about restaurant workers not being intelligent?. Look up Dead Children Speaking.

http://www23.hrdc-drhc.gc.ca/92/e/groups/6474.shtml :christmas

Jayelles
12-23-2003, 05:16 PM
Restaurant workers aren't intelligent? Most of our restaurants here are staffed by university students! Some of whom go on to become lawyers and surgeons...

Toltec
12-23-2003, 07:20 PM
Who cares?

Sabrina
12-23-2003, 07:56 PM
Jayelles,
Only the truly upscale restaurants are staffed by university students in my city. The ones where the chefs are named Pierre and Luigi.
Most of the other places hire high school kids or dropouts, illegal aliens and ex cons. I think a prerequisite for working in fast food restaurants here is an inability to speak English.

In fact, there is a really famous cafe in downtown Los Angeles that ONLY hires excons. The owner who is the former mayor believes they should all be given a second chance in life. It's called The Pantry. I found this about it:


The PANTRY in downtown on Figueroa
Never closes, they don't even have a key anymore.

Favorite Dish:
steaks, chops, and best cole slaw around

RESTAURANTS - ORIGINAL PANTRY CAFE
Written Aug 25, 2002 Tip Rating:

Description:
This place never closes. It is open 24hrs/day. It is owned by the former Los Angeles mayor, Richard Riordan.

It only closed once due to the County Health Inspectors. I guess too many cockroaches spoiled the soup.

It didn't stayed closed for long. I think it was shutdown on a Friday but back in business on a Sunday. This happened when Richard Riordan was still mayor so I assume he was able to get the Health Inspectors back outand working on a Sunday. And of course then-mayor Riordan was the first customer.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~





But I agree with you- babysitters often prepare meals. Did Toth say what he thought if the parents are gone 12 hours-- do they starve the kids?

Jayelles
12-24-2003, 03:22 AM
I think the point we would agree on then is that no-one can generalise about the intelligence of a waiter/waitress. He/she may be an ex-con or he/she may be a future Lin Wood!

Jayelles
12-24-2003, 05:49 AM
Interestingly, despite the fact that Toth & co claim that the Ramseys had very few babysitters, I have come up with a couple previously undiscussed babysitters quite by chance.

Kristin Griffin - was described as JonBenet's modelling coach and babysitter.

Lanie Lopez - described in Linda McLean's 1998 book as a 15 year old who had babysat for JonBenet and Burke for "years". Lanie wrote a letter to Patsy in Linda McLean's book which was described as "unedited". In it she says:-

I don't know if I'll ever be able to express to you just how much you and your family mean to me, but I sure am going to try now. Tonight as I sat here writing this letter I thought back to the very first night I met you. I remember how welcome you made me feel in your home the very first time I baby-sat for Burke and JonBenet. You were probably one of the most friendly and outgoing people I had ever met. I remember going home that night and telling my mom how I hoped you would call me to babysit again soon, because you were the nicest lady I had ever met and Burke and JonniB were the sweetest most well behaved kids I'd ever watched before. Not only did you call me to baby-sit again, but you also welcomed me in as if I was part of your family....

We also know about:-

Fleet White babysitting

Nedra babysitting

Suzanne Savage

Shirley Brady

There is a testimony in favour of the Ramseys by a Ramsey neighbour who sometimes babysat for JonBenet and Burke at http://www.geocities.com/jonbenetramsey/testimon.htm

Linda Hoffman Pugh is sometimes described as the family housekeeper and babysitter.

It seems clear that the Ramseys not only used family babysitters, but some pretty young girls too. It doesn't sound as though Lanie was particularly well known to the Ramseys because it sounds as though she was getting to know them through being their babysitter. If Lanie was 15 in 1998, then she would have been 13/14 during the later period of her babysitting time with the Ramseys.

Sabrina
12-24-2003, 10:04 AM
Well Jayelles, I think one can look at the restaurant and generalize. One is not going to find a future rocket scientist working at a place like the Pantry but perhaps at Chez Pierre or Villa de Luigi your waiter may a bit more classy.

Jayelles
12-24-2003, 11:38 AM
Sabrina - I certainly wouldn't generalise with the restaurants and cafes where I live. University students are employed everywhere around here. Many of them have several jobs. They don't care what they do, it's just a means to an end. My own two children work as a waiter and waitress because such work is easy to come by and because the tips are good and because they both reckoned that if they got trained up to wait tables, then it was a job skill that would enable them to work anywhere. My daughter is studying law and the hotel she works in is pretty average-to-downmarket. One of her waiting colleagues is studying to be an aeronautical engineer. Of course, there are some ne'er-do-wells too and several young girls who have been single mums since they were about 14, but you never can tell.

I'll tell you a story about waiting staff. There is a castle near here which is the residence of an Earl. It is open to the public and people can hire it for weddings and other functions. When I was a student, I waited tables at this castle. Anyway, when there was a function, the Earl's youngest son also used to wait on tables. None of the guests knew who he was. He's a barrister now, but in those days, he looked quite scruffy and the head waiter was always yelling at him. We had a lot of fun.

When I was a student, it was regarded as quite hip and trendy to do the most menial of jobs. My best friend at Uni worked as a labourer on a building site during vacations. This served a double purpose to him because in later years, he ended up building his own house - doing much of the work himself. One of my school friends (who also became a lawyer) worked during the vacations as a cleaner in the local hospital. She did this for about 5 years. I really didn't fancy that job at all. Both of my nephews washed dishes in a local hotel while they were at school and then Uni. Sometimes they worked as bellboys in the same hotel, but they kept these same jobs for about 8 years. My older nephew is a principal teacher of maths now, the younger is still at Uni and still washing dishes.

Sabrina
12-24-2003, 06:13 PM
Jayelles,

Washing dishes pays minimum wage here, even in the nicest restaurants. I would bet not 5% of the restaurant dishwashers in my city can speak English. I would bet maybe 60% are illegal aliens and probably only 50% can read and write any language.

People with more education and command of the English language can get much better paying jobs in my city than minimum wage. The waiters/waitresses get good tips, but only in the nicer places. Alot of them do work in the upscale places and hotels- but not in the kitchens. The basic food preparers make minimum but the chefs at the better places can do very well.

My college student friend is a limo dispatcher and makes $10 an hour. I think minimum wage is around $5 or something like that.

The high school kids and paroles (ex cons) work at McDonalds and the fast food places.

The little greasy spoon cafes have either high school kids, or women with premanent chewing gum, teased up bleached blonde hair and black roots and more makeup than Tami Faye Baker...

ajt400
12-26-2003, 11:55 AM
Originally posted by Jayelles
Restaurant workers aren't intelligent? Most of our restaurants here are staffed by university students! Some of whom go on to become lawyers and surgeons...


Okay, now I am mad!! Just kidding, but I waited tables for 4 years, and I will tell you that the customers are usually alot more stupid than the servers! Yes, alot of them are college students trying to make money to get through school. But alot are intelligent folks who just got stuck.......


Still make good money, though.:bigthumb:

ajt400
12-26-2003, 11:59 AM
Originally posted by Sabrina
Well Jayelles, I think one can look at the restaurant and generalize. One is not going to find a future rocket scientist working at a place like the Pantry but perhaps at Chez Pierre or Villa de Luigi your waiter may a bit more classy.


Would you please enlighten us as to where a future rocket scientist would work? Would they work at the mall? Maybe at a Wal-Mart. I am not sure but the last time I checked the employment ads in the paper, NO ONE was hiring future rocket scientists!

At least these folks are not on welfare! At least they are paying their bills! Working at a fine dining restaurant does not make you classy, they help you learn to FAKE classy very well.

And, yes, tips are very good. Not what you would think at all. Last year, my last serving tables, I made around 300-400 bucks a week working 40 hours a week. (Sometimes over)

txsvicki
12-27-2003, 03:49 AM
Some of those folks working for minimum wage are probably also receiving at least some welfare benefits, such as food stamps. No one can live on minimum wage alone. I was a, young single mom waitress over 20 years ago, and made $100 per day in tips. Much better money than many jobs for females back then.

Jayelles
12-27-2003, 06:47 AM
Hey, this is Scotland! We don't have greasy spoon cafes here nor do we have that many immigrants (who wants to freeze to death?) :P

We have twee little tearooms or trendy bistros and there are so many decent places to go for tea and a scone that a greasy spoon cafe wouldn't do much trade! But I take your point. I'm sure if we had greasy spoon cafes then they would be staffed by greasy spoon types.

Imon128
12-27-2003, 06:56 AM
Lots of those places hire college/high school kids who want to work and older folks who just need to get out. I don't know that all those employees consider it a career, necessarily, but I there probably are some who can get no other type jobs.

Shirley Brady was a nanny, right? I'm confident she probably cooked up some food and I wouldn't doubt Patsy would have a sitter fix up a little something for the kids to eat, but then again, she didn't fix a Christmas meal for the kids. They ate out at Pasta Jay's place Christmas Eve and went to the Whites for a late day Christmas meal.

LHP said she would ususally find messes on the kitchen counter when she arrived to work, and I would assume that the kids did some snack/food preparation of their own.