"Tape Recorder Man"

[Jeana (DP)]

Will someone please copy the information about the "tape recorder man" to this thread?

[Richard]

The following is a word for word copy of an article which ran in the Washington Star Newspaper on 3 April 1975. Much has been said about a suspicious man seen speaking with Sheila and Katherine Lyon shortly before their disappearance on 25 March 1975.

He was reported to be speaking to the girls with a tape recorder and hand-held microphone, hence his nickname "The Tape Recorder Man" or TRM. Some old newspaper stories refered to him as "Microphone Man", but on this thread "TRM" seems to be the name of choice.

I added the below story to the origional thread rather late in its run. It can be found on the second to last page of that thread. I include my comments on it as a preface to the article.

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Eyewitness: Last Time the Lyon Girls Were Seen
Below is the text of a front page article which appeared in The Washington Star newspaper on Thursday, April 3, 1975. It is an interview with the boy who saw and described The Tape Recorder Man talking with Sheila and Katherine Lyon on the afternoon of 25 March 1975, at Wheaton Plaza shortly before they disappeared.

The headline is a bit misleading, because the girls were actually seen a short time later by their brother, Jay and possibly a little later by another boy.

Aside from "Jimmy's" detailed statement and description to the Montgomery County Police on 28 March 1975, this is as close as it comes to a first hand account of exactly what he saw and heard in regard to TRM and the Lyon sisters. To my knowledge, it is the only newspaper interview that he gave.

Also interviewed in this article is Davis Morton, the Montgomery County Police officer who drew the two composite sketches of the Tape Recorder Man (TRM). A print of the second or "updated drawing" was included with the story.

After reporting on their interview with Jimmy and his mother, and with Davis Morton, the article shifted theme to give an account of what people were saying about the case and about how they were all reconsidering safety and security issues at Wheaton Plaza.

The Washington Star newspaper went out of business in 1982, and to my knowledge, there are no "on line" archives of their articles. I obtained a copy of this interview from a microfilm file in a library.

I typed it as it appeared in the paper, with the exception that I put x's in place of a printed street address, so as not to violate any privacy protocol.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Eyewitness: Last Time the Lyon Girls Were Seen
Thursday, April 3, 1975
By Mary Ann Kuhn and Rebecca Leet
Washington Star Staff Writers

Jimmy sat in a blue armchair in the living room of his family's Kensington home, letting his 13-year-old legs with their high-top sneakers stretch out on the turquoise rug as he talked publicly for the first time about the man he saw with the missing Lyon sisters last week at Wheaton Plaza.

Jimmy is the teen-ager who provided Montgomery County police with a description of the 50 to 60-year-old man he saw talking to the girls, Sheila, 13, and Katherine, 11, daughters of John and Mary Lyon of 3xxx Plyers Mill Road.

With his help, police drew a sketch of the man's face which has been published in newspapers and shown on television. Police have kept Jimmy's identity a secret. Jimmy (not his real name) did not seek publicity. His parents, fearful of retaliation, requested that his real name not be used.

Last night, four women who called police saying they recognized the man in the sketch went to the Wheaton Police station to offer help in drawing a new composite.

According to Pfc. Davis Morton, a robbery squad detective who does composites "to help out whenever it's needed," the 13-year-old's description of the man was accurate.

"I showed the composite to four women (separately) and it seemed to be basically the guy they had seen," he said. "They suggested a few minor changes, but I don't know if they would even be noticeable."

"Sometimes you're close and sometimes you're way off (in making a composite) but I feel better about this one because of the other witnesses."

"It was about 1 or 2 o'clock." Jimmy related. "I was out with a friend. We were down near ... um ... Peoples (Drug Store) and the Orange Bowl (pizza carryout) and we saw the two girls talking to a man with a tape recorder."

"I heard the man ask one question: ' Are any of you two involved in sports?'"

"And then ... um ... 30 seconds later I looked back. He was walking away toward Wards (Montgomery Ward) and the girls were walking the other way toward the fountain."

Jimmy stopped talking. Up to then, the words had tumbled out. He sat there and crossed his hands over his maroon lettered football jersey.

His parents didn't say anything.

His mother sat on the sofa with an untouched glass of red wine on the next table while her husband sat across the room with the newspaper opened across his folded legs. Jimmy was asked to give more details about what he had seen.

He smiled when he told how he and his friend had joked about going over to the man and asking him to interview them so they could get on television.

"I said to my friend, 'Hey, look over there. I wonder what's going on. It looks like a reporter.' We thought he was some kind of a reporter," Jimmy explained. "We were joking around that maybe we should go over there and get him to interview us."

"The man was holding a microphone in his hand between the girls, and asking questions. He had a tan briefcase on the ground. It was one of those hard ones that sat up." the boy said, adding that the tape recorder was sitting next to the man, out of the briefcase.

The man was sitting on the ledge next to an island of (illegible word - bushes?) in the middle of the plaza, Jimmy said. People sit on the ledge to rest during their shopping sprees or to eat a snack or pizza from the carryout.

Jimmy said he had never seen the man before or since. He said the man was well dressed in a brown suit.

Jimmy, who lives several blocks from the Lyons said he and his friend rode their bikes up to the plaza that day "to see friends. We just went up there to ride around. We had nothing else to do so we decided to go up there and look around."

Jimmy's mother said that right after the news came out that the Lyon girls were missing, her son told her he had seen them at the plaza. But it wasn't until Friday that he mentioned anything about the man with a tape recorder, she said.

"On Friday, he said that the girls were talking to a reporter. I said, 'How do you know he was a reporter?' He said because he had a microphone. I told him that could have been anybody and notified police."

At the police station on Friday, Jimmy said, the police "had me look through two files of mug shots."

(The beginning of the next sentence seems to have been left out of the printed article)

... in a while, a police officer would ask me if everything was all right (with the sketch). I'd tell them what was right and what was wrong." Jimmy said he thought the sketch was a good likeness. His mother said he was at the police station 2 1/2 hours that day.

Jimmy's friend who was with him the day the Lyon girls were seen with the man at the plaza verified virtually everything Jimmy said except that he said he did not hear any of the conversation between the man and the girls.

"I hope they find them." Jimmy said.

Meanwhile, fewer kids are "hanging" at Wheaton Plaza in the days since the Lyon sisters disappeared.

"Kensington, Md., isn't all that exciting a place, " 15-year-old Rachel Farr explained the mall's magnetism for teen-agers yesterday. "This (the plaza) is the best place to hang."

But now, "There's a kind of eerie feeling around the mall.... You can really see it," said 16-year-old Eric Provost, assistant manager at the Orange Bowl. "There's less talk. Less fooling around. When somegody goes up now (to the plaza) they have a reason."

Karen McGhee, 11, said that when her friend's coat fell as they were walking through the plaza yesterday and a man stopped to point it out, "I got my lungs ready to scream if he grabbed her."

A spokesman in the plaza manager's office said calls have come in from people wanting to know if it is safe to come there and shop.

If Montgomery County teen-agers are not gathering at the mall, they also are not running away from home as much since the Lyon girls disappeared, according to the county's Juvenile Bureau, which is investigating the case.

After eight tense days, the investigation of the Lyon girls' disappearance is settling into the tiring, colorless and seemingly endless routine of tracking down one fruitless lead after another - remembering, the police often note, that it may take only one good lead to resolve the mystery.

Yesterday, specially trained tracking dogs from Philadelphia spent the morning sniffing the area behind Oakland Terrace Elementary School and Newport Junior High, where the girls are students, in a re-check of an area officers already have searched twice.

Police said the dogs turned up nothing. Their two day role in the continuing drama ended as have so many apparently hopeful starts - quietly, uneventfully, sadly.

"We don't have anything," one officer said yesterday. "We're right back where we started."

[Skipper]

Did any articles on the disappearance of the Lyon's girls reference the name of Jergensen or Jorgensen? He would have been giving the appearance of "helping" with the case.

[Richard]

Did any articles on the disappearance of the Lyon's girls reference the name of Jergensen or Jorgensen? He would have been giving the appearance of "helping" with the case.
I have never seen that name in the course of my research. But not many names of tipsters were included in news reports, unless the tipster actually went to the press himself/herself.

In the case of the above story, for instance, the name "Jimmy" is not his real name, as the police refused to name him, and the reporters honored the boy's family's request for anonymity.

Police did receive hundreds or thousands of calls offering assistance, tips, and advice.

What information do you have regarding this Jergensen/Jorgensen person?

[Beyond Belief]

Was there a composite drawing of this guy?

[Richard]

Was there a composite drawing of this guy?
Yes, there were two actually. One was drawn as described in the Star article. and a few days later, after the first drawing was published (generating over 300 tips) a second "revised" drawing was made. It differed from the first only slightly in the chin area. You can view both drawings by going to the Links to Doenetwork's files.

Links:
http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/64dfmd.html

http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/65dfmd.html

[Yaya]

Fred H. Coffey. I believe this picture was taken in 1995. Possibly later.
I would like to know what he looked like in 1975.

http://www.filehigh.com/serve/3827/92052.jpg

[Richard]

Fred H. Coffey. I believe this picture was taken in 1995. Possibly later.
I would like to know what he looked like in 1975.

http://www.filehigh.com/serve/3827/92052.jpg
That photo of Fred is a prison photo taken in 2004. It is from the North Carolina Inmate Locator website.

[Yaya]

Richard,

Yes it is. That is where I got the photo. How did you find out what year it was taken? I could not tell from the info there what year it was taken, or did I over look it?

[Richard]

Richard,

Yes it is. That is where I got the photo. How did you find out what year it was taken? I could not tell from the info there what year it was taken, or did I over look it?
I have seen that same photo before, and I am pretty certain that there was a date with it. Either that, or it was the date that Coffey was transferred to his current prison, and there would have been a new photo taken at that time. Coffey has been moved around a number of times in the NC prison system over the past 19 years.

[Richard]

That photo of Fred is a prison photo taken in 2004. It is from the North Carolina Inmate Locator website.
Correction: I found a copy of that photo in my files and it has the date 2003 on it. I cannot be certain that was the date that the photo was taken or if it was when it first appeared on the NC Prison Locator, as that is where it was downloaded from.

[Richard]

Did any articles on the disappearance of the Lyon's girls reference the name of Jergensen or Jorgensen? He would have been giving the appearance of "helping" with the case.I would be interested to hear more about this person you mention. Could you be referring to a man who was investigated in the mid 1990's as having a possible connection to the disappearance of George "Junior" Burdynski of Brentwood in Prince Georges County, Maryland? (See separate thread on this case in Cold Cases section.)

[Richard]

Today marks the 31st anniversary of the day that the "Tape Recorder Man" (or "Microphone Man" as he is sometimes called) was first described by the witness "Jimmy" (not his real name) to PFC Davis Morton of Montgomery County Police, who in turn produced the sketch which was published by all newspapers and shown on all TV stations in the Washington DC, Maryland, and Northern Virginia areas.

Although the sketch was modified slightly and reissued, it still carried the origional date of 28 March 1975.

The Tape Recorder Man was seen by "Jimmy" and a friend at Montgomery Plaza talking to Sheila and Katherine Lyon, whom Jimmy knew personally. Here is a summary of what he said about the incident (see full text in the Star article in previous post). Note, I have placed his story in sequence of how things occurred, rather than in the exact order he told it, because he was responding to a reporters questions. Note that the reporter also spoke to the friend who verified the entire story, except that he did not hear any of the conversation between the man and the girls.

"Jimmy's" story:

"It was about 1 or 2 o'clock. I was out with a friend. We were down near
Peoples (Drug Store) and the Orange Bowl (pizza carryout) and we saw the two girls talking to a man with a tape recorder."

"The man was sitting on the ledge next to an island of bushes in the middle of the plaza. The man was well dressed in a brown suit. I had never seen him before or since."

"I said to my friend, 'Hey, look over there. I wonder what's going on. It looks like a reporter.' We were joking around that maybe we should go over there and get him to interview us."

"The man was holding a microphone in his hand between the girls, and asking questions. He had a tan briefcase on the ground. It was one of those hard ones that sat up. The tape recorder was sitting next to the man, out of the briefcase."

"I heard the man ask one question: ' Are any of you two involved in sports?'"

" Then ... 30 seconds later I looked back. He was walking away toward Wards (Montgomery Ward) and the girls were walking the other way toward the fountain."

[SadieJane]

New article at huffcrimeblog.com speculates on a connection to a Memphis newscaster charged with rape, Ron Meroney.

[mysteriew]

I saw that post. The man's picture and the composite's are really close.

[Richard]

New article at huffcrimeblog.com speculates on a connection to a Memphis newscaster charged with rape, Ron Meroney.
While I do not reject this possibility out of hand, I feel that Mr. Huff needs to do far more investigation into Meroney before proposing any connections to the Lyon Case.

Meroney seems to have had some run-ins with the law regarding sexual misconduct with minors in his past. He has not, however, been identified as having abducted or killed anyone.

I would caution making comparisons between a present day photo of 69 year-old Meroney and sketches made 31 years ago. Why didn't Mr. Huff obtain a 1975 photo of Meroney for comparison before posting a side-by-side comparison in his blog?

The two composite drawings are covered in depth in this forum. I got the doenetwork to print them with their on-line files last year. Those drawings, in and of themselves are actually not PROOF of anything. They were meant by police only to generate leads on a person of interest in 1975. It is interesting that comparisons are being made with them today.

As Mr. Huff points out in his article, there were only two known witnesses who actually SAW TRM speaking with the Lyon sisters. It is those two eyewitnesses who might still be able to identify that unknown individual today, but it would be a long shot, and police would have to be very careful in how they presented any photo line up. By placing Meroney's photo side-by-side with the two sketches on his website for any and all to see, Mr. Huff has pretty well eliminated any future eyewitness testimony against Meroney in this case - at least in regard to him being the TRM. A defense lawyer could probably get any such testimony excluded as having been tainted.

I feel that more investigation should be done. What about photos of what Merony looked like in 1975? What was his time slot for broadcasting? He might have been on the air at the time of the girls' disapearance. Has he ever commented on the case?

As Mr. Huff points out in his article, it seems unlikely that this well known radio/TV personality would have been hanging around Wheaton Plaza with his tape recorder trying to talk to little girls. It would have been very risky because somebody might have recognized him.

It would be interesting to compare Mr. Meroney's travels and locations with other disappearances, rapes, and sexual assults of record.

[Yaya]

I find these statements Steve made very interesting:

I found that a Ronald A. Meroney ran for some sort of political office in 1976 in Annapolis, MD. He ran as an independent, and was described in the brief blurb in the Frederick, MD as a "former weatherman." It seems easy to conclude that Meroney was in the area then in 1975. If he lived in the Annapolis area, he was about 38 miles or so from Kensington, where the Wheaton Plaza was located.



Several extortion-type phone calls were made to the Lyons family in the weeks following the girls’ disappearances. The most serious call came from an unidentified male on April 4, 1975. The individual demanded that their father leave a briefcase with $10,000 inside an Annapolis, Maryland courthouse restroom. The money was left as per the instructions but was never claimed. The caller later maintained that police had surrounded the courthouse and he could not retrieve the ransom.I am sure we will be hearing more from Steve as to Mr. Meroney's travel timeline and any other cases he feels which may have any merit. He is usually very thorough.The photos were very compelling.

[Thrasher]

I appreciate Richard putting this in perspective. The composite diagrams are next to worthless now. They were created in 1975 in the hopes of identifying known people in the area at the time.

The blog about Meroney is irresponsible. Without bothering to do real research, we have someone in Tennessee who has a history of sexual misconduct accusations, who once lived in Maryland - and worked in radio in Annapolis, where a botched extortion attempt was made related to the Lyon sisters! Not exactly an ironclad case. The fact that some people see a resemblance between the composite drawings and Meroney is is not evidence. Meroney has no history of violent crime, and no one can place him anywhere around the Lyon sisters in 1975. Like many other popular suspects, he may be a pedophile, but not there is no reason to suppose he is a kidnapper or murderer. As Coffey is.

It is absurd to think the Annapolis Courthouse extortion attempt involved the Lyons in any way. I indicated previously how improbable it was that this was a kidnapping for money; in any case, no rational person would seek a cash drop in a court building (least of all a known radio personality).

It is of course, conceivable that Meroney was involved (according to Skipper, someone posting here is involved!). But, as Richard pointed out, this identification would probably not be admissible even if a case was made. And it shouldn't be. I would not want to live in a judicial system where I was linked to a crime because my photograph resembled (in some people's view) a composite sketch drawn 31 years ago by a police artist based on a description given by children who saw someone once from a distance.

In the course of 31 years, Montgomery County Police have catalogued hundreds, if not thousands, of sexual offenders who could possibly have been in the area in 1975. I would be surprised if Meroney was not one long ago checked out and dismissed.

[Hollow]

Ok, I'm not really up on this case, I found some newspaper articles about an abduction that took place in California, the two girls were told their parents had been in an accident, they said their abductor was of Mexican descent. One of them was raped repeatedly and they were days later released. Has there been any mention of the Lyon's sister's abductor having any sort of accent ???

[Hollow]

Ok, I'm not really up on this case, I found some newspaper articles about an abduction that took place in California, the two girls were told their parents had been in an accident, they said their abductor was of Mexican descent. One of them was raped repeatedly and they were days later released. Has there been any mention of the Lyon's sister's abductor having any sort of accent ???
They were abducted from a fresno mall. He wanted them to call him Bobby and he said he was a member of the Symbionese Liberation army.

[southerngirl]

[QUOTE=Thrasher]. Meroney has no history of violent crime
QUOTE]

Excuse me, but sexual offenses against a 9 year old girl IS a violent crime. And he has other accusations and charges as well.

[Richard]

They were abducted from a fresno mall. He wanted them to call him Bobby and he said he was a member of the Symbionese Liberation army.
The Symbionese Liberation Army (SLA) was the name of a gang of self-styled anarchists who robbed banks and kidnapped Patty Hurst back in 1974. They were tracked to Los Angles, where most of them were killed in a shoot-out with police. Patty and other gang members were later captured.

Most of the SLA gang members were white, with one token black member - a convict named Donald "Field Marshall Cinque" De Freeze. De Freeze had escaped from prison earlier with another black convict named Theron Wheeler (who aparently had nothing to do with the SLA).

I do not know of any Mexicans name Bobby who were associated with the SLA. It is likely that the lowlife simply made up the story to frighten the girls. The "SLA" was big news at the time, so everyone had heard of it.

[Thrasher]

[QUOTE=Thrasher]. Meroney has no history of violent crime
QUOTE]

Excuse me, but sexual offenses against a 9 year old girl IS a violent crime. And he has other accusations and charges as well.
You are excused, but you are mistaken. A sexual offense against anyone, however, despicable, is not necessarily violent, and this can be an important distinction in developing profiles of subjects, in the judicial system, and in the common-sense understanding of the English language.

But more importantly, Meroney has, apparently, not been convicted of anything - and if that is the case he should not be referred to him as an "offender," violent or not. I was contrasting him to Fred Coffey, who has multiple convictions involving (in some cases by his own admission) murder, child abduction, and sexual assault. It is fine to speculate on Meroney as a suspect, but if all your really have is a resemblance to a 31-year old sketch and a one-time residence in Maryland, I wouldn't give it too much thought.

[Jeb]

I agree with SouthernGirl 100 %, sexual offense of a 9 yr. old child is a violent crime !

[jttnewguy]

It is absurd to think the Annapolis Courthouse extortion attempt involved the Lyons in any way. I indicated previously how improbable it was that this was a kidnapping for money; in any case, no rational person would seek a cash drop in a court building (least of all a known radio personality).Great post, Thrasher. Very well articulated. Of course we shouldn't leap to conclusions, but on the other hand, when dealing with an unsolved case, we also shouldn't develop tunnel vision either. The fact that the Tennessee reporter does have some possible history with crimes involving children, has experience interviewing with a microphone (the perfect cover in case anyone asks why he's talking to strange children in a mall), and also has a Maryland connection during the relevant time frame, while not sufficient to make him a suspect, is intriguing.

One more observation....I'm a big Jon Douglas fan, and in one of his books, he discusses child kidnappings. The ransom demand is probably unrelated to the case because according to Douglas, there are three kinds of people who kidnap kids (not counting family abductions): sexual predators, childless people who can't adopt (and probably have some mental problems), and genuine ransom cases. The first two want nothing to do with the parents of the kids and will never communicate with them, and in the third case, the ransom demands will be very persistent because it's the money they want.

[Richard]

The Tape Recorder Man (TRM) was seen at Wheaton Plaza speaking with Sheila and Katherine shortly before their disappearance. How long he was there that day, and how many times he had approached children previously is unknown, although a number of people reported having seen him on previous occasions - at Wheaton Plaza, and at other shopping centers in Montgomery and Prince Georges Counties, Maryland.

TRM disappeared almost the same time that the Lyon sisters did. Nobody ever came forward to state that he had been innocently interviewing people, trying out his new tape recorder, or any other such reasonable explanation. He simply disapeared and never surfaced (as TRM) again.

The sketch of TRM and the story of him speaking with the girls was the best clue available to police at the time early in the investigation. Later, the police spokesman stated that TRM could have been at the shopping center "for some legitimate purpose", and that he might NOT have been involved in the girls' disappearance. They were basically attempting to get any other clues from the public at the time.

In my opinion, the girls were abducted by a non-family member from Wheaton Plaza on 25 March 1975 - as opposed to any other scenario (ie ran away, fell in a pond, etc). It is also most likely that TRM was the actual abductor of the girls. Working alone, he determined when they would be departing the mall and what their path home would be (probably during his interview with them). He immediately left the area, got into his vehicle, and waited for them along their route of travel.

It is, of course, possible that he was working with an accomplice in one way or another. That would be less likely, but still, in such a scenario, he would have been directly involved.

It is also possible that TRM was simply a weird guy who, through a BIG coincidence, happened to interview these two girls shortly before some completely unrelated unknown person or persons abducted the girls. Seeing news reports of the girls' disappearance, and the sketch of TRM might have scared him into abandoning his "hobby" and into remaining silent about it for many years afterward.

Of interest is that a person in Prince Georges County, MD (south of and adjacent to Montgomery County) DID contact Montgomery County Police to state that he was the person seen in Landover Mall and Marlow Heights shopping center attempting to induce young girls into speaking into a tape recorder. But he claimed to have never done that in Montgomery County. In fact he had an alabi for the afternoon of 25 March 1975: he said that he had been in an auto accident involving a Federal Government vehicle and was in the hospital that afternoon.

Questions arise from that story: Was this second TRM photographed? Was his photo shown to any of the witnesses who had claimed to have seen TRM in the Prince Georges County malls or at Wheaton Plaza? Did he show police his tape recorder and tapes? Was he ever re-questioned regarding his activities?

If corrections were made to the origional TRM sketch based on PG county witnesses - and it was later believed that those people actually saw a second TRM - why was the second TRM sketch not repudiated in favor of the origional?

Was there really a second TRM, or was this simply another case of somebody trying to get into the act by providing false clues?

Alternately, could this PG County man have been the actual TRM at Wheaton Plaza as well, but using a convenient alabi of a motor vehicle accident to say that he was nowhere near Wheaton Plaza that day?

[Richard]

I think that the recent news stories and subsequent debunking of the so called "Confession" of John Mark Karr (Regarding the Jon Benet case) is an example of something police see on a daily basis... someone wanting to "get into the act" by falsely confessing to a well publicised crime.

I have always felt that this was what the individual was doing when confessing to be the Tape Recorder Man seen at three malls in Prince Georges County, Maryland just prior to the disappearance of Sheila and Kate Lyon from Wheaton Plaza in adjacent Montgomery County.

It is far more likely that there was only one "real" TRM and that he was practicing his lines and approach at various malls, prior to making his move.

It might be worth while for police to locate the man who confessed to being TRM Number Two, and to re-interrogate him.

[Jeb]

Since we can't find the Tape Recorder Man, maybe we should try to find the tape recorder! If the TRM snatched the girls, then he probably recorded whatever horrible things he done to them. He could then in his sick mind relive this event by listening to the tape. If Fred Coffey is indeed the TRM, like I beleive he is, & he pocessed the tape recorder & tape,what became of these items when he was arrested & imprisoned? A calculated guess would be: these items are either with his last wife, last girlfriend, or his mother.

LE told me they had talked to Coffeys' wives etc. My theory is that they should talk to these people again, with this in mind - If you don't ask the right person, the right question, at the right time, you won't get the right answer.

[Richard]

... My theory is that they should talk to these people again, with this in mind - If you don't ask the right person, the right question, at the right time, you won't get the right answer.

Excellent point. And sometimes you have to keep asking the questions again and again of the same people.

Although I don't want to second guess the investigation (which has been open and continuous since 1975), I often wonder about certain aspects of it and wonder if key witnesses have been re-questioned more recently.

There are a few primary witnesses (or alleged witnesses) that I would look up and question if I were doing the investigation of both the Lyon Sisters Case and also the Kathy Lynn Beatty Case.

Lyon Sisters:
- The boy "Jimmy" who claimed to have seen the girls with TRM would be first on my list of witnesses.
- The self confessed "TRM number 2" would rate a close second.
- Each and every person who had claimed to have seen TRM previously at all different locations in Montgomery and Prince Georges Counties would be on that list as well.
- I would also locate and talk with the IBM official who claimed to have seen a man who resembled TRM driving a Tan Ford Station Wagon with what he thought was the Lyon Sisters bound and gagged in back.

Kathy Lynn Beatty:
- There were several kids who saw her the evening that she disappeared. Their stories as adults might be different than what they told as young teens.

The very top of my list of possible suspects for both cases would have to be Mr. Fred Howard Coffey, Jr. - Convicted Pedophile and Child Killer.

[mere]

Since we can't find the Tape Recorder Man, maybe we should try to find the tape recorder!



I have wondered if Coffey's house was ever searched for items like that. Because he has been in prison for so long I think their is a possibility that evidence like a tape just might be sitting some place in a box.

[NJshrink]

I was wondering if the recently caught child predator Richard Steve Goldberg from the FBI's most wanted was ever associated or investigated in the Lyon's case. He was originally from the east coast. Does anyone know?

[Jeb]

When I talked to LE last time, the Detective had a big brief case full of papers, including a large picture of Coffey. We discused the possibility of 'two TRM', & I indicated that I wasn't 'buying into that idea'. After having told LE of my 2 sightings of TRM, I almost expected them to show me a photo of the 'second TRM', but it never happened. I may have been able to give them a definite yes or no, as to whether or not this was the man I saw. It almost appears, LE feels like the 'second TRM' whether fact, or fictional, does not have much bearing on the case. They could be correct, because we have no idea what information they have on TRM, or TRM's, & they don't volunteer much.

I would love to sit down with other witnesses who also saw TRM, & sort of compare notes. There is such a thing as 'The power of suggestion' which I have tried to avoid in my thoughts, all these years. On the other hand some one could mention something I had forgotten, & I might recall it instantly. It' almost like 'soul searching'.

[ShurlT]

Jeb, when you saw the large photo of Coffey did you notice if there were any spots on his face like large freckles or liver spots? Also, was this picture black and white or color? Also, from the side view TRM had a long narrow chin that wasn't as noticable from the front view. At least, I didn't pick up on it while looking straight at him coming toward me. His face was flat from the side view also, around the cheek area. It really caught my eye because I've never seen anyone with a flat face like that.

I've often thought it might be a good idea if LE would run the composite of TRM in the Charlotte newspaper, maybe the Bristol newspaper, too, to see if anyone recognized him from years back as being Fred Howard Coffey, Jr.

[Jeb]

ShurlT, the picture which Police showed me was in color, & went to the waiste. There were no liver marks or blemishes on his face, on the picture, or on the TRM I saw in person, twice. I asked LE to show me a picture of Coffeys' left profile, but they did not have one. Another thing I remember about TRM, are the heavy lines from his nose going to both sides of his mouth. They still exist in his prison picture, & are deeper now, with age. Coffey is a small man, then & now. Back then, he was able to disguise his appearance, in the type close he wore. I agree with you somewhat, on the fact that Coffeys' chin, and 'nose' were somewhat different. Looking at him on an angle, he reminded me of a duck, for some reason. If by chance Mr Coffey reads this 'Post', he can be as insulted as he wants.

[Richard]

... If by chance Mr Coffey reads this 'Post', he can be as insulted as he wants.

I would welcome Mr. Coffey's participation in this forum. Perhaps he could set us straight on a few things, and put some of these rumors to rest.

[ShurlT]

You both got me laughing so hard I'm coughing my head off. Maybe someone should send him an invite to the site. Never thought of that. Spouse he'd accept???

[Richard]

You both got me laughing so hard I'm coughing my head off. Maybe someone should send him an invite to the site. Never thought of that. Spouse he'd accept???

I doubt that he has internet access. Stranger things have happened, though. All he would have to do is google his name and this site would be at the top of the list.

[emery]

As Mr. Huff points out in his article, there were only two known witnesses who actually SAW TRM speaking with the Lyon sisters. It is those two eyewitnesses who might still be able to identify that unknown individual today, but it would be a long shot, and police would have to be very careful in how they presented any photo line up. By placing Meroney's photo side-by-side with the two sketches on his website for any and all to see, Mr. Huff has pretty well eliminated any future eyewitness testimony against Meroney in this case - at least in regard to him being the TRM. A defense lawyer could probably get any such testimony excluded as having been tainted.


Actually, Richard, I'm not sure this is true. The fact that an eye witness saw an arguably suggestive side-by-side comparison would not per se rule their testimony out. The test for determining whether eye witness identification testimony that has been subjected to suggestive procedures is admissible looks at the totality of the circumstances and whether the identification is nonetheless reliable despite the suggestive procedures. There are a number of factors, called the Neil factors (for the Supreme Court case Neil v. Biggers), that the court will look at. I'm not sure that seeing a blog article with the sketch and a photo side-by-side would even be considered unduly suggestive. So, for example, if one of the two eye witnesses who saw the Lyon sisters talking with TRM at the mall were presented with a line-up (five or six men (or their photos) of generally the same age and physical characteristics) and with complete confidence singled out Coffey as the man they saw that day, we cannot say with any certainty that the court would exclude that identification even if that eye witness had seen the crime blog display. Of course, it would be better if the eye witness hadn't seen the blog, and the fact that he had would certainly be used by Coffey's defense counsel to argue for exclusion, but it cannot be said that a court would definitely exclude the eye witnesses testimony identifying Coffey.

However, this does bring to mind a related point, which I've seen you make before. Studies have shown that eye witness identifications are notoriously unreliable. Therefore, I would take all of the descriptions given by the eye witnesses in the Lyon case with a grain of salt, especially things like height, weight and age estimates, which people are always getting wrong.

[emery]

Questions arise from that story: Was this second TRM photographed? Was his photo shown to any of the witnesses who had claimed to have seen TRM in the Prince Georges County malls or at Wheaton Plaza? Did he show police his tape recorder and tapes? Was he ever re-questioned regarding his activities?


I really hope the answers to all of these questions is yes. It would have been irresponsible to eliminate him as a suspect otherwise. I would not have eliminated him based solely on the car accident alibi.

If the physical description of the PG county TRM given by PG county eye witnesses matched the physical description of the WP TRM given by WP eye witnesses, a fairly reasonable conclusions can be drawn that they are the same man. And, if the man who came forward matched those physical descriptions, his claim not to be at WP that day would be highly suspect and I would vigorously investigate that claim, including showing his photo in a well-conducted photo line-up to the two WP eye witnesses and to any PG county eye witnesses to see if they could pick him out.

The fact that MCP eliminated him as a suspect suggests that WP eye witnesses could not pick him out of a photo array.

[emery]

The Tape Recorder Man (TRM) was seen at Wheaton Plaza speaking with Sheila and Katherine shortly before their disappearance. How long he was there that day, and how many times he had approached children previously is unknown, although a number of people reported having seen him on previous occasions - at Wheaton Plaza, and at other shopping centers in Montgomery and Prince Georges Counties, Maryland.

It occurs to me, isn't it odd that no other people that day came forward to say they or their children were approached that day by TRM? In other words, from what I've read, the eye witnesses who saw TRM talking to the Lyon sisters are the ONLY people to have observed TRM at WP that day. Did he only approach them? This is very odd behavior and you'd think, if he did it with other kids, other eye witnesses would have come forward.

And, even if he only "interviewed" the Lyon girls, you'd think more than two people would have seen it. It wasn't something you saw every day. It would have stuck in my mind, even if I hadn't know the children being interviewed.

This suggests to me he wasn't doing it very long at WP and perhaps the Lyon sisters were the only ones that day.

[emery]

TRM disappeared almost the same time that the Lyon sisters did. Nobody ever came forward to state that he had been innocently interviewing people, trying out his new tape recorder, or any other such reasonable explanation. He simply disapeared and never surfaced (as TRM) again.

. . . .

It is also possible that TRM was simply a weird guy who, through a BIG coincidence, happened to interview these two girls shortly before some completely unrelated unknown person or persons abducted the girls. Seeing news reports of the girls' disappearance, and the sketch of TRM might have scared him into abandoning his "hobby" and into remaining silent about it for many years afterward.


There are other explanations for why an "innocent" TRM would not come forward. It is possible (although remote) that he never heard about it. Perhaps he was a recluse who did not follow the news or watch TV. The possibility gets less remote if, say, he died or left the area right afterward. While the Lyon sisters' disappearance was big news in Maryland, I wonder if someone in Mississippi would have heard much about it. Most people I encounter and discuss the case with have never even heard of the Lyon sisters. I've found that generally only people who lived in the DC area in 1975 know about it.

[Richard]

There are other explanations for why an "innocent" TRM would not come forward. It is possible (although remote) that he never heard about it. Perhaps he was a recluse who did not follow the news or watch TV. The possibility gets less remote if, say, he died or left the area right afterward. While the Lyon sisters' disappearance was big news in Maryland, I wonder if someone in Mississippi would have heard much about it. Most people I encounter and discuss the case with have never even heard of the Lyon sisters. I've found that generally only people who lived in the DC area in 1975 know about it.

Emery,

Thanks for your very insightful comments. The Tape Recorder Man or "TRM" as many refer to him remains to this day a mystery man. Certainly, it is possible that this guy was simply a weird guy with a newly acquired tape recorder, or an innocent hobbiest. But the circumstances all tend to argue against that. The fact is that the girls did, in fact, disappear on that day in March 1975 shortly after being seen talking to TRM. And TRM seemingly disappeared about the same time.

I agree with you in that he probably was only at Wheaton Plaza for a brief time on 25 March 1975. He may have polished his approach or techniques at other malls first, then decided to make his move on the day in question. Had he been an innocent old guy with a hobby of talking to kids on his lunch hour, he would likely have spent more time at it, and probably would have been seen and remembered by more people that day.

With regard to my earlier remarks about possible "tainting" of evidence by posting a suspect's photo alongside artist's composite drawings - or older photos - I agree that it would have to be a decision made by a judge, but any knowledge of such an on-line comparison would certainly call the question, and it would almost certainly be used by the Defense Attorney to help his client to introduce doubt to the jury. I have seen cases in which eye witness testimony was not allowed because of faulty line-ups, showing of photos, or questioning by police.

You are also very correct about the unreliablity of eye witness descriptions and testimony. Sometimes composite drawings are way off, while at other times they look like they were drawn from life. In the case of "Jimmy" and his un-named buddy, they remembered TRM for a number of reasons. First and foremost, "Jimmy" knew both Lyon sisters quite well because he lived close to them and because he rode the same school bus as Sheila. He recognized them and wondered about the guy they were talking with, even hearing a portion of the conversation. He pointed the guy out to his buddy and they commented about his tape recorder and wondered if they, too, might get to be interviewed. They saw him walk away.

Immediately after the sketch was published, a number of other people came forward and claimed to have seen the same man. They could not add much to "Jimmy's" description or to the drawing, although the same artist did make a slight alteration to the sketch in the mouth area based on their comments.

My biggest concern would be the estimated age (50), which I think Jimmy based on TRM's gray or "salt and pepper" hair. Height might have been off as well, since the man was probably sitting most of the time (as was Jimmy and his friend). Also, recall that in 1975, it was a very popular style to wear boots or high heeled shoes which were covered by flare or bell bottom style trousers. Such a shoe might add a couple of inches to a person's height.

In regard to news coverage of this story - even though the war in VietNam was the main story because of the fall of Saigon, the Lyon Sisters were THE STORY in the Washington DC Metropolitan area, and they stayed front page news for weeks, in the papers, on radio, and on TV. It was, however, picked up by other papers throughout the country because there were Associated Press (AP) feeds the went out. I recently posted one such story printed in Marin County, California.

[emery]

Richard, I really appreciate how carefully and meticulously you approach this case. You really have a handle on all the known facts. I would love it if someday all your hard work bore fruit.

It sounds like you're pretty confident that TRM (the man seen talking with the Lyon sisters) was the same man seen at the PG county malls. If we assume that fact, then the man who came forward later and said he was the one at the PG county malls was either (1) TRM or (2) a lying attention seeker.

I can think of no other explanation except there are two men with tape recorders, which I agree would be an extraordinary coincidence. But, never discard that possibility entirely. Once a crime is committed, all kinds of seemingly odd but ultimately innocent behavior could take on sinister overtones. Sort of like conspiracy theories. Life is just odd. Sometimes things aren't related.

Do you have a pet theory on this? I suspect option (2) is more likely given that the police seem to have eliminated him as a suspect. I wish we knew more about WHY they had eliminated him.

I don't have any doubts the girls were abducted or came to some foul end. I agree that it would be unlikely that they were harmed outside in the neighborhood. It would have been too difficult to remove their bodies undetected afterward and I would think some evidence would have turned up.

How thoroughly do you think the police eliminated the possibility that the girls were lured into a house in the neighborhood? It was a nice neighborhood, but that doesn't mean there couldn't have been a child molestor living there. I remember we had a guy making a bomb on Glenway Drive around that same time. The police only learned of him after it exploded in his basement! I think I read somewhere that some houses were searched. I know for a fact that neither MY house nor any of my friend's houses were searched (although they were not on the Lyon sisters' direct route to the mall).

I've never worked directly with police dogs, but I am familiar with drug dogs and know they can be very reliable. But, I thought I read somewhere here that it rained for two days after they were abducted. (Funny, I actually think I remember this. I seem to recall the local news reporting how frustrated volunteers were that the rain was hindering their efforts to go out searching for the girls, but I may be making that up.)

BTW, do you know exactly in which wooded area it was that the dog alerted? I understand that it could have been scent left from when the girls walked to the mall, but I'm curious. Was this the overgrown area between the edge of the neighborhood and the mall or the wooded area I described between the nursing home and Jennings that now has houses on it? I'm assuming it was not the area between Glenway and Plyers Mill with the creek. That would be really strange. I really don't think the girls would have gone down in there unless they wanted to go swing on the swing (which is a possibility). That swing was a HUGE hit in the neighborhood.

Also, do you believe there is a link between the Lyon sisters disappearance and the other girl (sorry I've forgotten her name, Beatty?) left behind the K-Mart in Oxen Hill? I don't know why, but my gut reaction is that they aren't related despite the close proximity both in time and geography. She was older, and the MO doesn't look the same. Dumping the body behide a store. We don't even know if that girl was truly abducted or just attacked and left for dead. I would suspect a link with a clean abudction but not necessarily with an attack, which "at best" was a botched abduction. Whoever took the Lyon sisters seemed to know what he was doing.

Regarding tainted eye witness identifications, I think we agree on the basics. I just wanted to point out that such testimony can and often (perhaps too often) is admitted despite the witness's exposure to suggestive things such as show ups and photographs. In other words, it's not an automatic disqualification of the witness.

[ShurlT]

Jackpot: Fred Howard Coffey, Jr does have blue eyes. Confirmed by NC Department of Corrections. Complexion: light, weight: 150, height: 68 inches, Born: Bristol, VA.
Note: TRM had blue eyes and very light complexion with brown spots that might have been freckles. I tried to put a description of him on this site a couple weeks ago but the information I typed was wiped out when I tried to submit it with a message saying I was not logged in when I clearly was at the top of the page.

Note: there is a weight and height descrepancy from some eye witness accounts...mine included but this doesn't worry me.

Military History---Primary Duty: operations and intelligence as...
(Don't know if "as" is incomplete word due to lack of field space)

http://webapps6.doc.state.nc.us/apps/offender/menu1

Under: Main Menu
Click: View Offender Data for Advanced Users
Next Page
Enter DOC Number: 0081135
Check Click: Offender Profile

Other selections can be made, i.e. Military History, etc.

Thank you NC Dept of Corr. Wish other states would do this.

[ShurlT]

Jeb, please check your private messages.

[ShurlT]

Jeb, please check your messages.

[ShurlT]

Richard, please check your messages.

[Richard]

[quote=emery;1521223]...It sounds like you're pretty confident that TRM (the man seen talking with the Lyon sisters) was the same man seen at the PG county malls. If we assume that fact, then the man who came forward later and said he was the one at the PG county malls was either (1) TRM or (2) a lying attention seeker.

I can think of no other explanation except there are two men with tape recorders, which I agree would be an extraordinary coincidence. But, never discard that possibility entirely. Once a crime is committed, all kinds of seemingly odd but ultimately innocent behavior could take on sinister overtones. Sort of like conspiracy theories. Life is just odd. Sometimes things aren't related.

Do you have a pet theory on this? I suspect option (2) is more likely given that the police seem to have eliminated him as a suspect. I wish we knew more about WHY they had eliminated him....

... How thoroughly do you think the police eliminated the possibility that the girls were lured into a house in the neighborhood? It was a nice neighborhood, but that doesn't mean there couldn't have been a child molestor living there. ...

... I've never worked directly with police dogs, but I am familiar with drug dogs and know they can be very reliable. But, I thought I read somewhere here that it rained for two days after they were abducted....

BTW, do you know exactly in which wooded area it was that the dog alerted? ...

... Also, do you believe there is a link between the Lyon sisters disappearance and the other girl (sorry I've forgotten her name, Beatty?) left behind the K-Mart in Oxen Hill? I don't know why, but my gut reaction is that they aren't related despite the close proximity both in time and geography. She was older, and the MO doesn't look the same. Dumping the body behide a store. We don't even know if that girl was truly abducted or just attacked and left for dead. I would suspect a link with a clean abudction but not necessarily with an attack, which "at best" was a botched abduction. Whoever took the Lyon sisters seemed to know what he was doing. ... [quote=emery;1521223]


--------------------------------------------------
I am not certain whether or not the Prince Georges County TRM was the same person as the Montgomery County TRM - but I have a feeling that they were one and the same. Certainly anything is possible. There could have been a completely innocent harmless old man who wanted the Lyon Sisters to speak into his microphone and then went his way home - while the girls were abducted by someone else. And there could have been TWO completely separate and innocent such men. It is possible, but is it likely?

The people who contacted police about seeing the TRM in Prince Georges County could not offer much change to the composite drawing of the TRM seen at Wheaton Plaza. They were pretty certain that it was the same man.

Why would Montgomery County Police tend to eliminate the PG County TRM from the equation? Well, they interviewed a guy who came forward claiming to be the PG county TRM. He had an alabi in that he was involved in a car accident with a government vehicle and was in the hospital at that same time that the TRM was seen talking to the Lyon sisters. The police believed him. Unfortunately, the story of the "second TRM" coming forward was never released to the press.

You pretty well sum it up regarding the possibilities about the supposed second TRM. I tend to believe that it is more likely that (1) this guy was an attention seeker - for whatever reason, or (2) that he really was doing this sort of thing and may have known the abductor of the girls. Could he have been covering for his buddy? I just find the Coincidence of there being two identical TRM's operating within a few miles of each other at the same time to be unbelievable.

What I would really like to see is whether the police photographed this guy and then showed the photo to all of the witnesses who claimed to have seen TRM in ANY county or ANY mall.

Regarding the police effort to search houses in the vicinity of the girls' probable path - I believe that was pretty thoroughly checked out. Not only did they go door to door, but they also looked up and interviewed many known pedophiles and perverts.

The news media covered the disappearance as the top story for a month or more and there were constant requests for tips and assistance. Police were inundated with leads. And almost every available officer was put on the case. With all the information and disinformation flowing and with so many police involved, some things may have fallen through the cracks and some tips may have received less attention than they should have.

I have worked with and trained tracking dogs. But I am not familiar with the details of the dog work in this particular case. I know that trained dogs were, in fact, brought in - but do not know how long the delay was, what kind of indications the dogs gave the handlers or any thing like that. I seem to recall reading that the dogs alerted on some scent, but do not know the particulars.

I can tell you from my experience, that a good tracking dog knows the direction in which a person was traveling when he picks up the scent. So, if the dogs started a track at all, the handler could have told police if the track lead to or from the Lyon House. It is possible that a dog might have picked up a single scent from an article of clothing or something held by the person, without picking up a track. In that case, he would probably begin circling trying to pick up the scent on a track. I have never heard any specifics about the tracking dogs used to look for Sheila and Kate - other than that the wooded area between Wheaton Plaza and the Lyon House was searched.

In any case, the longer the delay before calling in dogs, the harder the job is for them. Very hot and dry weather will dry up a scent trail, and a good rain will wash much of it away. Optimum tracking conditions involve cool damp weather.

Good observations on the Beatty case. I have a feeling that the two cases are linked. The perpetrator might have been in a somewhat different frame of mind when Kathy Beatty was abducted and attacked. Perhaps he was drunk or on drugs at the time and not thinking as clearly as when the Lyon Sisters were abducted.

The girls were not too far apart in age. Sheila Lyon was only a day or two away from her 13th Birthday when she disappeared. Kathy Beatty was 14. They lived only about four miles from each other and both lived in housing subdivisions of nice homes. Both cases are unsolved to this day.

[Richard]

Tuesday, 25 March 1975

A suspicious person was reported to have been speaking with both Sheila and Katherine Lyon only a short time before their disappearance from Wheaton Plaza Shopping Center, Maryland on Tuesday, the 25th of March 1975. This person has been referred to generally as "The Tape Recorder Man" or "TRM" in this featured case discussion.

Two 13 year-old boys saw a man with a tape recorder speaking to the girls. One of the boys, came with his parents to police headquarters with this information, and provided a description to them. While at the police station, a Montgomery County Police Officer made a sketch of the suspect. This was on Friday, 28 March 1975, and that date was written on the sketch. The sketch was released to the news media two days later, along with a description of the man and the incident. After a number of people came forward to say that they had seen the man on other occasions (but NOT on 25 March 1975), the sketch was slightly modified and reissued to the press on 4 April - still with its origional date of 28 March. Both the origional and the revised sketch can be seen at the links provided below.

With such a long series of posts dating back to 2004, I thought that it might be helpful to summarize the known facts as reported back in 1975 about this TRM suspect. It is interesting to see what the source of the information was and how it was reported to the public.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Here is what the Washington Post of Tuesday, April 1, 1975,(one week after the girls disappeared) had to say about the Tape Recorder Man Suspect when they ran the first sketch for the first time:

(Quote) Last Friday, police said they were told that a man, described as a white male, about 6 feet tall, wearing a brown suit and carrying a brown briefcase, talked to the young girls at 1 p.m. outside the Orange Bowl Restaurant at Wheaton Plaza. The informant, police said, was a 13-year-old boy who knows the two girls well.

Police said the boy told them that he walked past the girls and the man and saw the girls speaking into a microphone attached to a cassette tape recorder inside the briefcase. After drawing up a composite sketch from the boy's description, police said they interviewed store officials and clerks in Wheaton Plaza and showed them the sketch, but did not come up with any leads. A WMAL spokesman said some people at the station also were shown the sketch before it was released, but that no one recognized the man.

"We're checking the sketch with known sex deviates and ... against everything we got," said Capt. Gabriel Lamastra, head of the county's juvenile section. "To be honest, I wouldn't tell you if we made a hit or not." (unquote)

After the sketch was published, there were some store clerks who stated that they had seen the man at Wheaton Plaza on Monday, 24 March the day prior to the girls disappearance.

The very next day, 2 April 1975, the Washington Post reported that:

(Quote) From more than 300 callers who responded to publication and televising of the sketch, police said they discerned a "pattern" emerging of a man with a tape recorder approaching young girls in suburban shopping centers. (unquote) and that further: (quote) Police... had received at least 15 phone calls from mothers of teen-aged girls who said their daughters had been "bothered" recently by an man with at tape recorder at suburban Maryland shopping centers. (unquote)

Subsequent Washington Post articles identified some of those other Maryland shopping centers as being located in Prince Georges County. They were: Marlow Heights Shopping Center and adjacent Iverson Mall, and Bowie Shopping Center.

It has also been established that after the girls disappearance, witnesses came forward and reported having seen a man fitting the description and actions of TRM at Wheaton Plaza, at White Oak Shopping Center, and at another shopping center - all located in Montgomery County, Maryland - on other occasions prior to 25 March 1975.

---------------------------------------------------------

The Tape Recorder Man was seen by a boy identified by police only as "Jimmy" (not his real name) and a friend at Wheaton Plaza talking to Sheila and Katherine Lyon, whom Jimmy knew personally. Here is a summary of what he said about the incident (see full text in the Star article in an earlier post).

Note, I have placed his story in sequence of how things occurred, rather than in the exact order he told it, because in the interview, he was responding to a reporters questions.

The reporter also spoke to "Jimmy's" friend (never identifed in the press or by police) who verified the entire story, except that he said that he did not personally hear any of the conversation between the man and the girls.

"Jimmy's" story:

"It was about 1 or 2 o'clock. I was out with a friend. We were down near Peoples (Drug Store) and the Orange Bowl (pizza carryout) and we saw the two girls talking to a man with a tape recorder."

"The man was sitting on the ledge next to an island of bushes in the middle of the plaza. The man was well dressed in a brown suit. I had never seen him before or since."

"I said to my friend, 'Hey, look over there. I wonder what's going on. It looks like a reporter.' We were joking around that maybe we should go over there and get him to interview us."

"The man was holding a microphone in his hand between the girls, and asking questions. He had a tan briefcase on the ground. It was one of those hard ones that sat up. The tape recorder was sitting next to the man, out of the briefcase."

"I heard the man ask one question: ' Are any of you two involved in sports?'"

" Then ... 30 seconds later I looked back. He was walking away toward Wards (Montgomery Ward) and the girls were walking the other way toward the fountain."

Links:
Sheila Lyon - The Doe Network: Case File 64DFMD
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/64dfmd.html (http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/64dfmd.html)

Katherine Lyon - The Doe Network: Case File 65DFMD
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/65dfmd.html (http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/65dfmd.html)