Missing in WV (Sodder Family) #2 [Archive] - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

mysteriew

01-15-2006, 07:21 PM

Just some things I found with I googled 90135-Italy. Probably Nothing

MassTimes (http://www.masstimes.org/dotNet/ShowChurches.aspx?q=&state=&city=&statecode=&diocese=Palermo&country=Italy&countrycode=IT&Type=DIOCESE)

Assumption B. M. V. (http://www.masstimes.org/dotNet/showchurch.aspx?id=52592) 0916760859 Map (http://www.masstimes.org/dotNet/showchurch.aspx?id=52592) Updated: 11/23/2003
Address: Via Perpignano, 183 Palermo PA 90135 Italy
Jesus Christ (http://www.masstimes.org/dotNet/showchurch.aspx?id=52583) 091221146 Map (http://www.masstimes.org/dotNet/showchurch.aspx?id=52583) Updated: 11/22/2003 Address: Via Castellana, 110 Palermo PA 90135 Italy
Sacred Heart of Jesus (http://www.masstimes.org/dotNet/showchurch.aspx?id=52779) 0916823898 Map (http://www.masstimes.org/dotNet/showchurch.aspx?id=52779) Updated: 11/25/2003
Address: Via Noce, 126 Palermo PA 90135 Italy

Does PA90135 mean Providence Area? Any one know? Could this go with the code on the back-A090135 or A90135

There appears to be a zip code for not only Palermo, but also for Big City Cal.

fox1950

01-15-2006, 07:22 PM

Also check this out:Untitled Document (http://aolsearch.aol.com/aol/redir?src=websearch&requestId=ab825891277fbd84&clickedItemRank=34&userQuery=Italy+-+PA+90135&clickedItemURN=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.carta.org%2Fagenzi a%2FtestimoniGenova%2Fdiritti_migranti%2Ftabella.h tm&title=Untitled+Document)

Lombardia, 46040, Guidizzolo, MN, Saiore 116, Islamic Moviment of Italy ... Sicilia, 90135, Palermo, PA, via GE Di Blasi, 10, Associazione Culturale ...

http://www.carta.org/agenzia/testimoniGenova/diritti_migranti/tabella.htm

Palermo hotels and accommodation, hotel reservations in Sicily, by ... (http://aolsearch.aol.com/aol/redir?src=websearch&requestId=ab825891277fc733&clickedItemRank=10&userQuery=Palermo+90135+Italy&clickedItemURN=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.all-hotels.com%2Feurope%2Fitaly%2Fsicily%2Fpalermo_1.h tm&title=Palermo+hotels+and+accommodation%2C+hotel+re servations+in+Sicily%2C+by+...)
Palermo hotels, hotel reservations in Palermo, Sicily, Italy by all-hotels(tm) - travel and lodgings ... Via Ottavio D'aragona 25, Palermo, Italy, 90135

Palermo, Lingerie & Hosiery: Lingerie & Hosiery in Palermo,... (http://aolsearch.aol.com/aol/redir?src=websearch&requestId=33ba98691adcded4&clickedItemRank=1&userQuery=PA+90132+-+Italy&clickedItemURN=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.palermo.worldweb.c om%2FShopping%2FLingerieHosiery%2F&title=Palermo%2C+Lingerie+%26amp%3B+Hosiery%3A+Lin gerie+%26amp%3B+Hosiery+in+Palermo%2C%2C+Sicily)
The fabrics are said to be as smooth as a caress, or, carezze. Address: Corso Calatafimi, 103h Palermo PA Italy 90132 ...

If you search 90135 Italy you find several web sites for Palermo, Italy. ...

Could A90132 or 35 stand for PA90132 or PA90135 standing for Palermo, Italy?

InquisitiveT

01-16-2006, 02:10 AM

Hi All. I'm a new member and just signed up on Websleuths. I've been following this thread since I first read the Sodder story transcript on the NPR website in late December. I did a lot of research online when I was in college. So, I discovered ways to look up "hard to find" information online. I just wanted to share this. This is in regards to JBandy post "Italy Family", where he received a mystery post on Ancestry.com.

I went to Yahoo International websites, Italy (http://it.yahoo.com/). I am fluent in Spanish, and can sort of follow along the lines if reading something in Italian (as both languages are latin based). At any rate, I decided to do a search in the White Pages (Pagine Bianche) to look for the names mentioned in this "mystery post" in Ancestry.com.

Re: Family History
Author: adelaide Date: 23 Aug 2003 12:45 PM GMT
Surnames: Dessena Adelaide Ignazia Lalla
Classification: Query

Our grand father Salvatore Soddu had a brother, is name was Giorgio, he goes in USA west virginia in beginning 1900, he was 16 years old.He changed his surname in Sodder, we have a photo of George family (1960),he had five soons,and his wife's name was Maria Cipriani. We live in Italy, Sardegna in a little village Tula in Sassari's provincia. We are Ignazia,Adelaide e Lalla Dessena our mother is Anna Maria Soddu.Sorry for our english. Is the person that you are looking for? bye bye

I searched a combination of names for "Dessena Adelaide Ignazia Lalla", and no hits. Then, I searched for Anna Maria Soddu in Tula. This is where I got a hit http://it.paginebianche.yahoo.net/execute.cgi?btt=1&tl=2&tr=101&tc=&be=&cb=10&tq=2&qs=Soddu&qsn=Anna+Maria&dv=Tula&ind=&nc=&x=0&y=0.

Now, it may not seem like a lot, but if the family would like to attempt to call this listing to see if Adelaide can be contacted, I'm thinking this is a good lead to finding the family connection in Italy. JBandy, I hope this is of some help. Perhaps someone in your family speaks Italian and can try this number.

I look forward to reading more excellent ideas in trying to help the Sodder family find some answers to this painfully long mystery.

shadowangel

01-16-2006, 02:16 AM

I had done a search on the numbers as possibly postal zip codes, but couldn't get a hit (I tried various combinations).

Is it possible that some codes were discontinued down through the years? What happens if a post office closes, either due to lack of residents or a merger with another post office? Would these codes probably somewhere on the west coast if they were zip codes?
By the way, welcome InquisitiveT, we welcome any help we can get!!

mysteriew

01-16-2006, 03:05 AM

Inquisitive T, thanks so much for the info. And welcome to WS!

Shadowangel, when I did a regular google of zip code+ 90135, I also came up with hits in Palermo and also one in Big City, Calif. ( http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/forms/documents/th200.pdf address is on pg. 5 of the pdf) Whoops, scratch that, it is a sample form, and probably a bogus address.
Interestingly enough 90132 also shows up as a zip code in Palermo. I didn't find anything for 90132 in the US.
Here is the link to research Italian zip codes
http://sicilia.indettaglio.it/eng/cap/palermo/motore/motore.html

I also did a check on both numbers at the USPS and no hits on either number. I only saw that in the Google search.

fox1950

01-16-2006, 11:53 AM

Can anyone find when zip codes were first used in the United States. If my memory serves me correctly it was in the 1960's. Remember everyone complaining about having to (now) put a zip code after the address. This was started to make it easier on the postal service to sort and forward the mail.

fox1950

01-16-2006, 11:56 AM

I found it - ZIP Code - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://aolsearch.aol.com/aol/redir?src=websearch&requestId=b04d6808f6e7795e&clickedItemRank=3&userQuery=When+zip+codes+were+first+used&clickedItemURN=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwik i%2FZip_code&title=ZIP+Code+-+Wikipedia%2C+the+free+encyclopedia)

California zip codes start with 9, however did not find one that was 90132 or 90135. Regarding information about Italy-enter a description here (http://aolsearch.aol.com/aol/redir?src=websearch&requestId=b36c5fc156e9a728&clickedItemRank=10&userQuery=Italy+zip+codes&clickedItemURN=http%3A%2F%2Fmembers.tripod.com%2Fp ippee%2Falizashelpkit.html&title=enter+a+description+here)

Inquistive T- Thanks and welcome-Do you know when zip codes first started in Italy?

Marie

01-16-2006, 02:03 PM

I wanted to bring this forward.
Could this be what it is saying:
Louis Sodder
I Love (his) brother Frankie
(He has) lili (little) boys
A90132 (partial SSN or a visa number?)
This could be someone who knows English only as a second language, and doesn't know it well. What seems to be a cryptic message, could actually be someone with a language barrier.Maybe it is Lily's Boys or Lili's Boys.

Was the A90132 handwritten? Or stamped on the photo?

fox1950

01-16-2006, 06:28 PM

Maybe it is Lily's Boys or Lili's Boys.

Was the A90132 handwritten? Or stamped on the photo? Never realized it but this is a last name Lili and Lily. Both are first names, too. Frankie Lane had a song Hi-Lili, Hi-Lo.

Marie

01-16-2006, 06:42 PM

Just tossing some more out -

I love brother Frankie and Lili's boys. I love Frank Lili's boys.

And is it sure that the "A" is an A? Otherwise it could be a date.

Or "A" is for About - About September 1st 1932. About 9th of January 1932. Etc.

Yaya

01-16-2006, 08:54 PM

(1) Mom doesn't have the original photo. She only has a copy, so the quality is not terrific. The original was much clearer. She recalls seeing casement windows in the background of the photo.

(2) She recalls the handwriting on the back of the photo differently than what was in the Bragg book. Since she doesn't have the original, she can't confirm this.) She recalls the first two lines the same as reported, but the last two as:

lilil boys (they always thought this was meant to be slang for "little boys")
Age 32 or 35
This quote by Grandaughter is from the other thread... just posting it here incase anyone overlooked it.

mysteriew

01-16-2006, 10:46 PM

One thing that I have been puzzling over, is the type of photo. It is hard to tell from the copy on here. But does it appear to be a formal, posed photo or a portion of an informal snapshot?
If it was a formal photo, there may have been watermarks on the photo paper that might have held a clue as to where it came from.
During that time period, most of the informal snapshots I have seen would have the date of processing, printed along the edge.

Granddaughter

01-17-2006, 09:47 AM

Hi all. didn't want you to think we'd forgotten about you. Mom has rounded up a bunch of articles and photos, including photos of two of Papa's brothers in Italy, and photos of my grandparents when they were about the age that the missing children would be today. My brother is creating a webpage so I can post this information for you to access.

The photo reported to be Louis appeared to be a snapshot. Mom recalls seeing a casement window in the background of the original that Mama and Papa received. She and Dad looked for buildings with casement windows when they went to Kentucky, and that's why she recalls this detail.

Sorry I haven't been able to post much. I've been covered up at work. I'll try to post more as soon as possible.

Shadow205

01-17-2006, 10:52 AM

Granddaughter,

That is great news about the website! Keep us posted.

Hi all. didn't want you to think we'd forgotten about you. Mom has rounded up a bunch of articles and photos, including photos of two of Papa's brothers in Italy, and photos of my grandparents when they were about the age that the missing children would be today. My brother is creating a webpage so I can post this information for you to access.

The photo reported to be Louis appeared to be a snapshot. Mom recalls seeing a casement window in the background of the original that Mama and Papa received. She and Dad looked for buildings with casement windows when they went to Kentucky, and that's why she recalls this detail.

Sorry I haven't been able to post much. I've been covered up at work. I'll try to post more as soon as possible.

shadowangel

01-17-2006, 12:25 PM

The website is great news. If you need any help with anything, just let us know.

How aggravating is it...Mothman got a movie with Richard Gere, and we're having trouble getting the kids a mention in the newspaper. :)

InquisitiveT

01-18-2006, 12:33 AM

Thank you for the welcomes. I have been searching for an answer to Fox1950's question about how long postal codes have been in use in Italy. I have found information that they joined the United Postal Union (UPU) in 1875 and have a few email inquiries to two websites to see if I can get an answer. Meanwhile, of interest, I found the following:

In mysterview's quote below, there is a link (.sicilia.indettaglio.it). I looked up the zip code 90135 and a place called "A." is at the very top of the list. http://sicilia.indettaglio.it/eng/cap/palermo/motore/motore_sql.html?Nome=*&Tipo=%25&Cap=90135.

Inquisitive T, thanks so much for the info. And welcome to WS!

Shadowangel, when I did a regular google of zip code+ 90135, I also came up with hits in Palermo and also one in Big City, Calif. ( http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/forms/documents/th200.pdf address is on pg. 5 of the pdf) Whoops, scratch that, it is a sample form, and probably a bogus address.
Interestingly enough 90132 also shows up as a zip code in Palermo. I didn't find anything for 90132 in the US.
Here is the link to research Italian zip codes
http://sicilia.indettaglio.it/eng/cap/palermo/motore/motore.html

I also did a check on both numbers at the USPS and no hits on either number. I only saw that in the Google search.
Not sure what "Name" represents. Wondering if this is a street name? :confused: Under "Kind", "Cortile" is listed, and this translates to courtyard. I think it reinforces the idea that the wording behind the picture could represent a location, in this case, a street in Palermo. I've done other research on Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palermo#History) on Palermo, and directly quoting:
The importance of Palermo got another boost when Sicily (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sicily) became (1947 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1947)) an autonomous region with extended self-rule. But any improvement was thwarted by the rising power of the Mafia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mafia), which still today is a dramatic feature of the city, as well as the whole Southern Italy.
I do not mean any disrespect to the Sodder family bringing up the mafia reference, but it lends to the theory some have visited on this website about mafia involvement. Just following a train of thought here.

shadowangel

01-18-2006, 11:07 AM

I was playing around with the message from the back of the Louis photo. Granddaughter had posted that her Mom recalled the one line as being "age 32 or 35" instead of A90132 or 35.

The "A" is self-evident...And, in some European countries, "9" is written with a "tail" and would resemble a lower-case "g". I had a harder time getting "01" to resemble an "e", but without seeing the original writing, who can say? What I would give to see the back of that photo...

Jennie-Does your Mom know if a copy was ever made of the writing? Also, does she know what may have become of the device she found in the yard?

spikydragon

01-18-2006, 02:29 PM

Now I'm confused ... does the writing say "32 or 35" verbatim, or does it say either "32" or "35"?

(Delurking. Hi. ;))

shadowangel

01-18-2006, 02:53 PM

You're not confused...I've been working it from both angles. :)

drema

01-19-2006, 04:12 PM

Perhaps lili or ilil are partical names for something. Like for example: Funicello-someone could shorten it to cello. Or Capriani could be shortened to iani boys or riani boys. Maybe this was a group of "boys" and their title was shortened to "Ilil" boys or lili rather than writing out the whole name. Sounds Itilian especially since the one ends with an I.

shadowangel

01-20-2006, 08:00 PM

FYI, I e-mailed the Human Trafficking division of INTERPOL, to see what they suggest we might do as far as researching any possible activity in Italy. They were quite responsive when I asked some questions in relation to Sharon Marshall, more responsive than several of the PDs I've tried dealing with here in the States.

fox1950

01-22-2006, 11:52 AM

Thank you InquistiveT. Your posts have been very informative and helped me search the Italian sites. Keep Going! :clap: Perhaps the children are still not able to reveal what happened to them. I wonder if down thru the years there has been many hang up calls expecially during Mr. & Mrs. Sodder's lifetime. Jennie, does you family still have the magazine that your grandparents thought they saw a picture of Betty in? Can't wait to see your website. Also does Sylvia remember if they appeared to be only one "handwriting" on the picture or did there appear to be more than one person's writing?

Also InquistiveT- It appears Lili is an Italian last name.

fox1950

01-22-2006, 07:57 PM

Re: Family History

Author: adelaide Date: 23 Aug 2003 12:45 PM GMT
Surnames: Dessena Adelaide Ignazia Lalla
Classification: Query

Our grand father Salvatore Soddu had a brother, is name was Giorgio, he goes in USA west virginia in beginning 1900, he was 16 years old.He changed his surname in Sodder, we have a photo of George family (1960),he had five soons,and his wife's name was Maria Cipriani. We live in Italy, Sardegna in a little village Tula in Sassari's provincia. We are Ignazia,Adelaide e Lalla Dessena our mother is Anna Maria Soddu.Sorry for our english. Is the person that you are looking for? bye bye

I searched a combination of names for "Dessena Adelaide Ignazia Lalla", and no hits. Then, I searched for Anna Maria Soddu in Tula. This is where I got a hit http://it.paginebianche.yahoo.net/execute.cgi?btt=1&tl=2&tr=101&tc=&be=&cb=10&tq=2&qs=Soddu&qsn=Anna+Maria&dv=Tula&ind=&nc=&x=0&y=0..[/QUOTE]

One hit for the name Dessena in Tula
Dessena Giovanna
07010 Tula (SS) - Via S. Elena, 15

079 718152

Shadow205

01-26-2006, 08:57 AM

Granddaughter,

Do you know if your family here in the US has any contact with the family members in Italy? Have they kept in touch over the years? Does Sylvia know this woman who claims to be Salvatore Soddu's Granddaughter? Did George & Jennie have contact with them after coming to the US?

LButler

01-26-2006, 05:05 PM

Hi All!! Glad to see the new info here!! Exciting!! I've been away too long - we're closing our antique store after 4 years and, gosh, it's a lot more work to GO OUT OF BUSINESS than to be in business. But, enough about me!!

I see a reference to the post of "Adelaide" in the rootsweb forum. I sent her an e-mail several months back (per that address she listed there) and although it didn't bounce back, I never heard back from her?

I have to go back and catch up on the last posts of the first thread so maybe someone else has been contacted too. But, I have heard back from my detective mag guy and he has located the magazine that had the story in it. Should be arriving to me in a few days. I'll share what I can when I get it (provided I'm not way behind here on what's been posted).

Once our store gets officially signed and sealed, I'll have some free time to run around and do some research so post some ideas for me if you have any. I want to go to the libraries and read up on what kind of things were just generally going on in Fayetteville about the time this happened...

Gosh, I've missed this....

drema

01-26-2006, 07:49 PM

A Smithers woman claimed that the kids had been brought to her home after the fire and then someone with Florida license plates came and took them away.
I don't know if this is the same woman that the authorities claim to have talked to and decided that she was not credible or not.

Welcome back-L Butler! To answer this post (above) that was on the other page questioning whether the woman in Smithers and the motel owner in Charleston who said she saw the children that night-I think these are two different people. One was at Smithers and one was in Charleston. Does anyone know the Smithers woman's name and if she was Italian? The Lady from Charleston said she saw the children with Italian men that night and called a year later and said she saw Louis with a man in Charleston again. The lady in Smithers said they were brought to her house after the fire and then someone with Florida license plates came and took them away. The motel operator's name in Charleston was Ida Crutchfield.

JBandy

01-27-2006, 02:28 AM

I am waiting on my thesis to be accepted, but in the mean time I am moving back to Fayetteville from Boston to spend a month with my family and to research and talk about this with people effective February 3. If anyone is interested in meeting me and helping me look for answers please let me know.

Jonathan

Yaya

01-27-2006, 09:52 AM

Shadow205 you had posted in the other thread:

Shadowangel & I are trying to drum up some interest within the anthropology departments at 2 Universities here in WV. I think it could be quite a class project.
Any update?

Shadow205

01-27-2006, 10:43 AM

Nothing yet Yaya. I think that we need to establish how the current property owners would feel about their property being excavated before we go any further with that idea. I noticed in the above post that Jonathan is coming to Fayetteville, maybe that would be the time to approach them.

Shadow205 you had posted in the other thread:

Any update?

drema

01-27-2006, 07:50 PM

Here are some hightlights from Inside Detective, February, 1968 that I just found:

The title is "The Children who went up in Smoke" -

According to the article it all began a few months before Christmas 1945. A stranger appeared in the fall of 1945 to discuss some hauling work. While there, he made a point of examining the wiring of the house. He stated there was going to be a fire pointing to two fuse boxes. Mr. Sodder had not ask him to inspect the fuse boxes.
A few days before Christmas the family noticed another thing which seem unimportant at the time. A man parked in an automobile was seen watching the Sodder children when they came home from school. The unknown man was seen several times parked along the highway.
There was no Christmas tree that year because the family was sad Joe had not made it home for Christmas. (So, a Christmas tree did not start the blaze).
When the telephone rang at 12:30 a.m. Mrs. Sodder saw Marian alseep on the couch in the living room. Lights were on through the house, shades were up and the door was open as though no one had taken time to close up the house before going to bed. The caller was a woman. Mrs. Sodder heard weird laughter of another person in the background. The person asked for a man who was not, nor had any reason to be at the Sodder residence.
Mrs. Sodder locked the doors, pulled the shades and turned off all but one light which was was normally kept on during the night. She did not wake Marian who had fallen a sleep while reading a magazine.
30 minutes after the phone call she heard a thud on the roof. About to doze off again she smelled smoke around 1:30 a.m.
The three girls sleep in the first bedroom immediately at the top of the stairs. There was no door at the top of the steps into the girls room which means that could have easily have heard Mrs. Sodder's calls.
The boy's room was in the back blocked by a door to the girl's room.
The engine would not turn over in the truck in the garage nearby.
The house was seven rooms. Five rooms were downstairs, 2 were upstairs where the children slept.
December 28- Three men and a woman came to the Sodders to see the babies as if to learn if the parent suspected anything. (Article does not state if the Sodders knew these people).
Later, Mrs. Sodder begin to burn pork chops bones, etc. in her stove. After the fire died the bones were still there.
Three months after the fire, baby Sylvia found a device which could contain explosive or jellied gasoline. It was later identifed as an Army pineapple. The end of the object was slightly burned.
No one interviewed who was present at the fire smelled burning flesh or heard screams.
A man riding a bus past the scene around 1 a.m. stated he remembered seeing what appeared to be balls of fire hurtling toward the roof of the house.
Another woman said thought she saw some of the children peering from a passing automobile while the fire was in progress.
The ladder was found 75 feet down a embankment from the Sodder home.
A woman operating a tourist court on the highway between Fayetteville and Charleston, around 50 miles west of the fire said she saw the children the morning of the fire. She served them breakfast. In the parking lot was a car with Florida plates. She remembered this after a picture of the children were put in the Charleston paper after the family became suspicious. She knew nothing of the fire that morning. She found out about it when she read the article and related the pictures to the children she saw the next morning.
Another woman saw the article and said she saw four of the five children at a hotel a week or so after the fire accompanied by two women and two men, Italians. They registered around midnight. She tried to talk to the children but the men appeared hostile and refused to let her talk to the children. The younger boy answered a friendly comment she made and one of the girls began to talk to her. The man started talking in Italian and everyone stopped talking. They all stayed in one room of the motel and left early the next day. She, too, had never heard of the fire. The same woman said 8 months later (August 1946, a man with a boy stayed at the Alderson Hotel (same hotel) and the young man called the boy his "ward". He never let him out of his sight. The woman never connected the case until she saw pictures of the Sodder children. She did not remember seeing the older boy (Maurice). She recognized Louis after having seen him at the same hotel 8 months earlier. The lady said they stayed approximately 3 days.
The lady who said she made the call the night of the fire retracted her statement later.
More later if you are interested.

Shadow205

01-27-2006, 09:49 PM

Very interesting Drema. Please post more.

drema

01-28-2006, 08:50 AM

There is a couple of things from yesterday's post that I would like to change or verify:

The lady who said she made the call did not retract her statement, she changed her story.
The young man seen with the boy in August 1946, that the woman thought was the same boy as she had seen a week after the fire, was an Italian. (Brother Frankie)?
Something new from the post of yesterday: The picture Mr. and Mrs. Sodder found and Mr. Sodder went to New York to investigate was one of two beginners in a ballet class at the West Side center of the New York Children's Aid Society. He was informed there could be no question about the child's parantage and therefore it could not possibly be the child he sought. How did they know? This was Betty according to Jennie-Grandaughter.
I have a busy ahead-will post more when I can this afternoon. L Butler-did you get your copy of the magazine you said you ordered. Is it the same one? Feel free to chime in or add your comments if you have received your book.

Granddaughter

01-28-2006, 05:44 PM

Hi -

Sorry for the sporadic posts. I'm waiting on my big brother to finish the website so I can post the stuff we've found.

My grandparents apparently remained in contact with my grandfather's family in Tula. Mom found a death announcement for one brother and a military photo for another brother among some of my Mama's letters. The death announcement was for Sini Ignazai in Soddu, who lived from 2-2-1899 to 12-19-1963. The military photo was of Giau Gavins Soddu. Mom's not aware of any continued contact with the family in Italy after my grandfather's death in 1969.

I plan to post some photos of my grandparents on Monday. The photos in the magazines were all pretty bad, and we wanted you to be able to see the people who would have appreciated your efforts so much.

Meduza

01-28-2006, 08:16 PM

Hi all, first post and I guess I will begin by addressing a post made by Shadowangel's post #20 for this thread first and have a few more thoughts on other things as well, that have not been mentioned. Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to step on toes or make anyone mad, just curious about some things and maybe offering up some other ideas.

I'm sorta familiar with the military, and I have never heard of a device like that mentioned here. All grenades have always been made of metal, and the US military never produced a napalm grenade-only large bombs. Napalm was also used in flame throwers. Napalm devices use either white phosphorus or thermite (or thermate) to ignite the napalm, which burn at about 4000 degrees...I don't think a hollow rubber ball is going to survive! (The Us does use an icendiary grenade, which is metal and tubular-it basically ignites and burns in place. I've seen one burn through an auto engine block. I'll speak to a historian at the West Point Museum tomorrow just to be sure, though).I did a fast Google search for pineapple bomb and after weeding out all the bartender recipes for this drink, (where on Earth do they come up with some of these names for drinks?) I came across this bit of info. Now granted it was used during the Vietnam war in this article, but before it was used there, I am sure many different models were made prior to it's use during that war and the research had to begin somewhere or the design stolen from another country in another war. In any case, here's a snip of the article and the link to it follows.

As well as explosive bombs the United States Air Force (http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/2WWusaaf.htm) dropped a considerable number of incendiary devices. The most infamous of these was napalm, a mixture of petrol and a chemical thickner which produces a tough sticky gel that attaches itself to the skin. The igniting agent, white phosphorus, continues burning for a considerable amount of time. A reported three quarters of all napalm victims in Vietnam were burned through to the muscle and bone (fifth degree burns). The pain caused by the burning is so traumatic that it often causes death.

The US also made considerable use of anti-personnel bombs. The pineapple bomb was made up of 250 metal pellets inside a small canister. Gloria Emerson, a reporter in Vietnam, witnessed their use: "An American plane could drop a thousand pineapples over an area the size of four football fields. In a single air strike two hundred and fifty thousand pellets were spewed in a horizontal pattern over the land below, hitting everything on the ground."

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/VNchemical.htm

I also found this link doing a napalm grenade search on Google too

A napalm grenade, packed in a heavy plastic sphere almost the exact size and weight of a baseball. The detonator should be of very low power -- just enough to break the plastic shell and ignite the inflammable. If the napalm is packed under pressure, it will spread itself when the case breaks. The detonator (a contact cap) should be carried separately and inserted or screwed in just before throwing. This would allow a man to carry a sack full of balls without danger to himself. Now, we probably have developed some fine riflemen, sharpshooters, etc., but there isn't an American boy over thirteen who can't peg a baseball from infield to home plate with accuracy. And a grown man with sandlot experience can do much better. It is the natural weapon for Americans. Six good men could ring an area with either napalm or white phosphorus faster than you could throw a magazine into an automatic or a machine gun. And an enemy with a bit of flame on his clothes or even in front of him is out of combat. The weapon would also be valuable for cleaning out tunnels and foxholes. Mounted as a rifle grenade, the Steinbeck super ball would also be valuable for burning off cover of extra ambush country or of tree-borne sniper fire. http://50books.blogspot.com/2005/08/magazines-steinbeck-super-ball.html

Now this last one does sound very similar to the item that Sylvia found and the balls of fire that the busdriver claims to have seen.

I have also noticed that depending upon the article, the source of the fire has never truly been established. One item stated it was the fuse box, (or one of the 2 fuse boxes), and another item states that it began on the tar paper and wood roof. I would like to know where the fuse boxes were located at that time. I know of several homes located in upper Ohio that still operate on the original fuse box and it is located on an outside wall and with those fuses that if ya blow one, use a penny in it concept. So that is why I ask. Threats were to have been made by both a person stating the fuse box/s would cause a fire and by the fella that was upset over insurance and their Italian history. Sorry, to lazy to hunt down those threads right now. I just thought it was interesting to add that fuse boxes were not always inside the home and access to those might have been just as easy, if not easier, than access the phone line.

Marie

01-28-2006, 10:05 PM

If you google "pineapple bomb WWII" you'll find some information.

drema

01-28-2006, 10:15 PM

Thanks, Meduza. If you find out information let up know. Even the smallest clue may lead to something. The bomb makes more sense to me now since I thought the pineapple grenade was metal anyway. Don't know where the fuse box was but people were more open to letting people in their homes then than nowdays.

Some more:

The Sodders felt the telephone lines had to have been cut after the call around 12:30 since the phone was working then. Mr. Sodder felt that someone cut the line in an attempt to cut off the electricity in the house so they would not be able to find their way out. However, the telephone line was cut.
Something that has not been mentioned: A taxi brought several folks to the fire from a local tavern. No one could ever found the taxi driver or what company it came from. This was probably where the rumor came about that the children watched the fire from a taxi.
Mr. Sodder heard the children were in Cortez, Florida. A detective went there looking and showed the pictures of the children around. Some people thought they had seen the children, however, there was no evidence the children were still there.
The coroner's inquest was going on during the search for the children. When Mrs. Sodder was told no bones were found she stated that was impossible. Shortly after, a three story house burned in the area. 7 people burned including a 2 month old baby. All the remains, including the 2 month old baby were found.
A detective stated that maybe the children slipped out of the house to meet someone who had promised them a party and presents.
:twocents: This is not a part of the detective magazine:
Here are my thoughts about that: During that time a man was hired every year around Christmas time to greet the children of Fayetteville during Christmas. Although he was a local citizen, he would fly into Fayetteville. The children loved it. Let me clarify that I do not think this man had anything to do with the missing Sodder children. I will not name him for that reason. However he was sponsored by local merchants to do this each Christmas. My point being, that a Santa Claus suit was very available if anyone wanted to get the children out of the house by playing Santa. What if Santa came to visit that night, the children saw him and scurried out of the house without closing the door. It would be a good way to get the kids out of the house, since all the windows shades were open and you could see outside. That leaves Maurice and Martha who would not have been fooled by Santa but perhaps they got caught up in the moment. What a perfect time on Christmas eve to see Santa coming!

George, Jr. called to Maurice and thought he heard him grunt. However, he could not confirm this because of everything going on.
:twocents: I keep wondering what happened to Maurice and (please Sodders forgive me) but I sometimes wonder after reading the detective magazine that perhaps he may have been in the fire. The lady in Charleston said the older boy was not present when the people stayed in the motel. Maybe that would account for the bones even through the man in Washington stated that he did not believe they had been exposed to fire. Just a thought...

Someone in a earlier post ask where Joe was: Here is the answer. He was still in North Carolina awaiting his discharge and could not come home because of that. John had been home around a week.
From the Unsolved Mysteries book: Mr. Sodder stated several people stopped by. He thought one guy was a soldier. Could this man, whoever he was, have been the one who helped with the grenade? Again just a thought.

shadowangel

01-28-2006, 10:40 PM

Meduza-

The "napalm grenade" mentioned in the second link was the product of John Steinbeck's imagination. The author goes on to say he consulted someone with knowledge of weapons and was told Steinbeck's science was "way off". No such device was ever used by the military. The incendiary grenade used by the military was a cylindrical metal container.

The device Sylvia discovered may have been the work of someone local with a knowledge of explosives, a diminutive version of a "Molotov cocktail".

fox1950

01-28-2006, 11:15 PM

Well, my grandmother always said if you are going to lie tell a good one. I tend to believe the woman from Charleston did believe she saw the children. If she were lying, why didn't she include Maurice and say she saw him, too? I think she remembered them because of their odd behavior. Wonder what she had to gain by telling this story. She couldn't prove it. The reports, if I am remembering correctly, said she was not a credible witness....she had nothing to gain because with no proof she couldn't collect the reward money.
If I am remembering the article correctly, she was pretty adament about these being the children. I do believe she saw someone whom she did think were the Sodder children.

I've always said someone came to the door the children knew and trusted-who better than Santa Claus.

Maurice has alway been my biggest confusion on the subject.

shadowangel

01-28-2006, 11:27 PM

Is it possible that Maurice was too difficult to control? That has always been my thought, as sad as it is....

Meduza

01-29-2006, 12:01 AM

I am also curious about the floor plan of the home. It has been stated that there were 2 bedrooms in the attic or on the second story. The girls room was at the front and opened directly to the stairway and had no door. The boys room was to the back and there was a door so one would assume a wall between the rooms. There was a cellar or basement. Was it a full or partial? I would have to assume that it was a full basement based upon the statement that "All that remained of the home was a basement full of ashes". What was the basement constructed of? Mud floor with bricks, blocks, wood, or mud for walls? What was the actual home constructed of? We know that the roof was tar paper and wood, what about the rest of the structure? What were the walls made of? They didn't have drywall in those days and based upon most the homes in my area it was made of a mixture of cement, limestone, and horse hair. West Virginia is obviously different and why I asked. When it came to plastering in those days, most folks used what was handy. Maybe all the walls were made of wood and that would make sense too on why the house went up so fast. Hang on please, I do have somewhere that I am going with all this, I would just like some more details.

Another tidbit mentioned that mom would put chicken and pork bones into her "wood" stove to see what they would look like, since no remains of her children were found. That basically brings me to another question. What were the primary heat source/s for this home back then? Did they soley rely upon wood to heat this home or did they use coal as the primary heat source and wood was used for cooking? Heat rises just like smoke, but I am curious because either/or source/s had to be stored somewhere. I would think that coal is far to hot to cook on and the wood stove was mentioned when mom was trying to destroy animal bones. In either case, that fuel had to be stored somewhere. The coal being in the basement and the wood stacked near the home for easy access.

The home is on fire and smoke does what? It rises. So the girls room should be filled with smoke by the time mom awakes to the smoke. Mom is awakened by the smell of smoke and when she opens her bedroom door, the adjoining room was filled with flames. That is a lot of smoke and the smoke had where to go, but upstairs into the girls open bedroom.

Now, does anyone know exactly how many beds were in each room? We know that baby Sylvia was still in a crib in mom and dad's room downstairs. What were the sleeping assignments for the others? Most of the kids were older and in our era, would be sleeping in their own beds, but in that time, were they still sharing beds? No Christmas tree was put up because Joe didn't make it home, so did the kids still believe in Santa, at their ages, in that era? They were staying up to hear about Santa's travels on the radio and playing with the toys Marian gave them. Marian fell asleep on the couch and that would free up a bed, if she had her own. That would give Maurice and Louis a place to sleep. Let's say that these 5 kids go upstairs and all go to sleep in the girls room. This is a happy family and they are all excited over Christmas and the gifts they will get in the morning. Who cares who sleeps with who. Now, they are all settled in for the night and are eventually overcame with the smoke from the fire in their sleep. Not uncommon from several internet searches. The majority of fire related deaths are due to the smoke and not the fire. As much as I hate to say it, we have 5 kids that may very well already be dead from the fumes and smoke, before the fire has even reached the room. The good part of that being, it happened while they were asleep and none the wiser of the horror yet to come. The smoke wakes up mom and when mom opens the door, the next room is filled with flames and being a great mom, she is screaming, no doubt to try and wake her kids up. Her screams finally awaken George Jr. and John and they had to open the door between their room and the girls room to gain access to the stairs to get outside. I am by no means an expert on firefighting, but lets try this scene. The boys open the door creating a flash fire. The house is on fire and once they open that door, the fire rushes for the fresh air to feed it. George Jr. and John barely escape with their lives.

Now once the family is safe outside, they are all trying to save the remaining kids. The water is frozen solid, the vehicles won't start, and the ladder is no where to be found. There are no screams and in the back of my mind that would be because of death due to smoke inhalation. They didn't smell flesh burning. That thought I really don't care to think about, but if I had to, how much more would it really differ to any animal? I'm sorry, I don't mean to be disrespectful saying that. I just have so many thoughts running through my head right now and just trying to keep each thread together with my thoughts. I was born in 1965 and things at that time compared to when my folks were born, had changed an awful alot and even more so by the time I had my daughter in 1984.

Was there any foul play noticed on the vehicles that wouldn't start that night? I am not familiar with the temps or living in the mountains where they lived, during this time frame. In my area in Ohio it's pretty flat and can get down right cold, so more details would be nice for that area.

Just a few more ideas for those still thinking

mysteriew

01-29-2006, 12:41 AM

Something that has not been mentioned: A taxi brought several folks to the fire from a local tavern. No one could ever found the taxi driver or what company it came from. [/b]This was probably where the rumor came about that the children watched the fire from a taxi.

The fire dept. couldn't come until 7am the next morning, yet the customers from the local tavern made it out there?????
Both of the women who claimed to have seen the children....I wonder if they are still living, or in their absence, I wonder if their children are still living? The reason I ask, is that a mystery of this magnitude would be passed around in family lore. There was no TV, very few sources of entertainment. Family stories tended to be told over and over, as well as stories from the neighborhood. I have relatives from Kentucky, and have noticed those relatives can give our whole family history from memory. As well as little tidbits from the family/neighborhood history. Her kids would have heard the story told countless times to neigbors, relatives. They also might remember if anyone put pressure on their mother to stifle the story. Also, I would wonder if the motel records were destroyed. Even if they were, there is a possibility that she might have saved that particular record, because of the associated mystery.
I know their stories have supposedly been discredited, but the fire dept. was supposedly unable to come to the fire. Kinda makes me question official creditability.

drema

01-29-2006, 01:23 AM

I can see your point.

Here is the answers to some of your questions:
The Sodder home was a frame dwelling. The inside partions were constructed partly of fireproof sheetrock. One half of the roof was composed of galvanized tin and the other of standard roofing paper.

Your thoughts could be exactly right but how did John and George, Jr. excape without really knowing what was going on thru a smoke engulfed room? However, on the other side of the spectrum their eyebrows were singed when they hurried down the stairs.

Mrs. Sodder stood at the bottom steps and yelled to the children. She never mentioned smoke flowing down the steps which would have been the case if the upstairs room was smoke filled.

Another tidbid that caused the Sodders to be suspicious: A man said he saw something flying toward the house which looked like fireballs at 1:00 that morning. Seems strange he would tell a story like that. He was passing the house right about the time the house may have started burning

However, your theory may be correct: when Mrs. Sodder went to the next room to investigate a sheet of flames were descenting from the corner of the ceiling.

Mrs. Sodder had a electric stove, that is why there was two fuse boxes. However, she did have a wood stove also. Ice hung from the house. Perhaps the fuse boxes were located outside but like a car door, were frozen shut-thus the phone lines being cut by mistake.

I do not know what the basement consisted of and have often wondered if Mr. Sodder kept gasoline in the basement. Also, both trucks would not start that night which was unusual. They always started according to Mr. Sodder.
I will say that everything you have said has merit and could be exactly what happened. But on the other hand, where were the bones. While reading these posts I looked up an interview with a serial killer. He stated you had to stay with a body a long, long time to completely burn it up. And the smell, he said was sickening. I have always heard if you smelled a body burning you would never forget it because it was so horrible. However, the fire marshall stated that because of the high winds no one smelled flesh burning. Possible, but according to records their was a bunch of people there that night. No one smelled anything.

Mr. Sodder was not only trying to prove the children were alive but he also was open to any evidence that the children did in fact die that night. The Sodders doubts grew from: the threat made previously, the man in the car who seems to be watching the house, the stranger who checked the fuse boxes, the strange behavior of the fire chief, no bones being found, the guests they had after the fire to check on the babies, the noise on the roof,
the phone call, the trucks not starting, the ladder being moved, the telephone wires cut, officials saying it was an electrical fire when the lights were still burning in the house which made it impossible to be an electrical fire, the officials stating the next morning there was no evidence of arson, the fire chief saying the weather was too bad to come in the official report while people drove by the house, people stopped, and a crowd gathered. The fire department arrived at 9 a.m., the officials having an inquest there on the spot while others were digging through the ashes looking for bones, the fact that they were told right off with no bones as evidence, they died in the fire and more or less go on with your life. Another question you ask - about heating and cooking. I would assume the house was heated with stoves since when the phone ring Mrs. Sodder stated she checked the stoves. I lived in a home with a wood cooking stove, we also had an electric stove. Both wood and coal was used to cook with on the cooking stove.

I move back and forth, too. I think that is why a dig of the land should be done. They say teeth of the last to go after a long period of time. Mr. and Mrs. Sodder stated on numerous occasions that they only wanted proof one way on the other and were open to evidence that the children did die in the fire.

I hope this answers some of your questions and everybodies ideas of worth listening to. Your post was great!

drema

01-29-2006, 02:05 PM

[QUOTE=mysteriew]
Both of the women who claimed to have seen the children....I wonder if they are still living, or in their absence, I wonder if their children are still living? The reason I ask, is that a mystery of this magnitude would be passed around in family lore. There was no TV, very few sources of entertainment. Family stories tended to be told over and over, as well as stories from the neighborhood. I have relatives from Kentucky, and have noticed those relatives can give our whole family history from memory. As well as little tidbits from the family/neighborhood history. Her kids would have heard the story told countless times to neigbors, relatives. They also might remember if anyone put pressure on their mother to stifle the story. Also, I would wonder if the motel records were destroyed. Even if they were, there is a possibility that she might have saved that particular record, because of the associated mystery. [QUOTE=mysteriew]

The motel operator's name in Charleston was Ida Crutchfield. She is not on social security death index-However, that doesn't prove anything since she may have gone by a middle name. There are Crutchfield's that still live in Charleston. Could not find anything on the Alderson Motel of Charleston. Probably long gone. It was harder back then to save copies of things since there were no copying machines like we have today. But I agree with you Mysterview, there still should be family or others she talked to if she did think these were the Sodder children even if she may not be alive today. Worth looking into.

As for the trucks not starting and anyone looking into why-The Sodders accepted what was told to them at first, only after Sylvia found the device in the yard and Mrs. Sodder discussed it with Mr. Sodder and him telling her that he found the ladder down an enbankment 75 feet away, they then started discussing if the children did actually die in the fire.

LButler

01-30-2006, 11:49 AM

drema....what great stuff you've posted!! I haven't gotten my mag yet, but it has been shipped - hopefully tomorrow!!

Here are some of my "renewed" thoughts after looking through the new posts. I have always felt in my heart that Maurice was probably killed. I hate to post that, but a 15 year old boy used to farm work and manual labor could really put up a fight. I hope I'm 100% wrong on that one. I don't believe he was in the fire that night because of all the kids, he would have had the largest bones and would have been easier to locate some remains??

Jbandy....I'm in Summersville and have a somewhat open schedule. I would love to help out with some of your research in Fayetteville. If you're interested, PM me and I'll give you my contact info so you can get in touch when you want to.

Shadow205

02-03-2006, 02:47 PM

Drema,

Just wondering if you got your mag yet and if so is there anything in it that we have not heard before?

fox1950

02-03-2006, 07:58 PM

Another reason for the door being left open other than the children leaving quickly would be that fire would spread faster if there was a door or window left open for the wind to fuel the fire.
:waitasec:
The taxi driver sure seemed strange. First, Fayetteville was a small town, so were surrounding areas except Charleston---was it planted there for someone to watch the outcome of the fire? According to the post, the taxi driver nor the taxi company were ever found. Seems it would be a perfect way to watch the fire, and even better when the people from the tavern wanted a ride to the site of the fire. There they could see first hand what was going on.

drema

02-03-2006, 08:32 PM

Drema,

Just wondering if you got your mag yet and if so is there anything in it that we have not heard before?Yes there are several more things.

At daybreak authorities began sifting the ashes. The Justice of the Peace of Oak Hill, served as acting coroner and had six local citizens assisting him. He quickly turn a verdict that the children died in the fire.
The state police arrived and make an inspection of the premises. They pointed to defective wiring as the cause of the fire. :twocents: Here we go again about the wiring.
The procecuting attorney of Fayette County conducted an inquest and found nothing that pointed to arson. :twocents: Does anyone know how long an arson investigation takes?
The fire department arrived at 9 a.m. and cooled the ashes. :twocents: This was after the children were pronounced dead and no signs of arson were found.
The state fire marshall did not make his offical report since the state police arrived ahead of him and conducted a rather complete inquiry. The inquest was going on when he arrived.
Morticians arrived. Mr. Sodder was told that nothing had been found and the simple way to get on with the furnerals would be to pick up a handful of ashes for each of the five children and place the ashes in a box and bury them. Mr. Sodder refused.
Later in the day, a minister called a Fayetteville Mortician and stated that he thought they had found something.He went to the scene, raked the ashes in the basement and found nothing. However he did notice a No. 2 wash tube in the front yard which was filled partially with ashes. On the top of the ashes was an object that was covered with a coating of ash dust. When he touched it it was very soft, he believed it to be a liver, and was sure it had never been exposed to intense head. He left it because he was sure it was not the remains of the children. He raked for an hour and did not find a bone of any kind. Mrs. Sodder later stated there was no liver at the house at the time of the fire.
As for the lady in Charleston being "adament" the children she saw were the Sodders she signed an affadavit that the children were at her hotel two or three days later.

As I read more I will post. I would like to hear some ideas on why the childrens lives were saved if someone did plan to burn the house and kill the Sodders. Seems it would have been easier to have left the children there and
let them all die in the fire than take the chance of keeping the children alive.
This part doesn't make a lot of sense to me.....don't buy into the black market or slavery part. And why doesn't anyone come forward with any real information if this was a crime? Seems like after all these years someone would have let the story slip or would post on this website.

mysteriew

02-04-2006, 04:41 AM

Drema, that all depends on how much power the persons involved had, or in how scary they were. And you also have to think of the time period. This is a very old story, the persons who would have been adults then, aren't likely to be on the internet. LOL, wonder if we could get the kids of the fire chief on here, to tell what they remember? Again, in many cases family lore is all we are going to have to go on. But this is a story that likely would have been told over and over by persons in that neighborhood.
I have thought about why it might have happened. The only motives I can come up with, are to get some type of revenge...... or to get the kids for some unknown purpose.

Granddaughter

02-04-2006, 01:50 PM

This one is my grandfather when he was 70, about 4 years before he died.http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d124/jhenthor/papa.jpg

Granddaughter

02-04-2006, 01:51 PM

The last one is my grandmother at 64.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d124/jhenthor/mama.jpg

Granddaughter

02-04-2006, 01:56 PM

My parents have looked through most of my grandparents' things, and have had little luck finding things related to the children. Jonathan, we hope you have better luck with the suitcase.

Granddaughter

02-04-2006, 02:01 PM

Oops - This was supposed to be the first of the three photos of my grandparents, so the other photos are missing the lead-in. This photo is my grandmother in her early 20s with her oldest son, John.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d124/jhenthor/mamaJohn.jpg

mysteriew

02-04-2006, 03:34 PM

Your grandparents did not look anything close to their ages! Very young looking!

mysteriew

02-05-2006, 04:07 AM

I don't know if you have considered putting up another billboard, but here is a resource that might be useful. Yes I know that the family had one up for years. But now we are a couple of generations later. Many of the persons who may have been involved are dead. Many are very elderly, probably not considered prosecutable as they may be in nursing homes, etc. A billboard put up years later may prompt a guilty concious, may prompt now grown family members to come forward. Anyway, it is just a thought and I have a possible resource for that.
http://www.unresolvedhomicides.org/about.html

mysteriew

02-07-2006, 08:45 AM

It looks as though our own Stacy Horn made the blogs, and though they didn't talk about the Sodders directly, the blog did link to her NPR piece:
http://laurajames.typepad.com/clews/

fox1950

02-07-2006, 08:27 PM

Jennie, Thanks for the pictures. They were great pictures.

fox1950

02-18-2006, 08:51 AM

Has anyone read the book Last Mountain Dancer by Chuck Kinder? Has something in it about the Sodder family. Haven't got to read it yet but thinking about buying it.

mfmangel1

02-22-2006, 05:17 PM

Hello Everyone!

I was registered here before, but haven't been here in quite a while and I had to register again.

I have been reading this fascinating and terribly sad case. I see that some posters do not consider abduction a la Georgia Tann a possibility.
I know that searching orphanage records is a huge, if not impossible, undertaking, but I think abduction for adoption is a very real possibility.

I know it's a longshot, but it just keeps coming to my mind when I think of this particular case.:waitasec:

mysteriew

02-23-2006, 03:14 AM

Different family, different state, different years but I was struck by the similiarities in these two cases.
http://fromwhisperstoroars.blogspot.com/

fox1950

02-23-2006, 08:49 PM

Different family, different state, different years but I was struck by the similiarities in these two cases.
http://fromwhisperstoroars.blogspot.com/Very interesting post, Mysterview. I have read about her before-but not such a detailed report. Thanks.

drema

02-25-2006, 11:53 AM

To answer the questions poised on the first websleuths board, the children's pictures were in the detective magazine. Each individual picture was in the magazine along with a picture of the board. Wonder if anyone has anything new to say--Hope the thread doesn't die. :)

Shadow205

02-25-2006, 03:09 PM

I hope that the thread doesn't die too. I am anxiously waiting to hear from Grand-daughter on the progress of the website.

T'sNana

03-17-2006, 09:48 PM

*BUMP* Any news? I've been thinking a lot about this case.

TeeGeeWiz

03-17-2006, 11:54 PM

I have been interested in this case since I was a little girl. I live right outside of Summersville in Mount Nebo. This is just a bit north of Fayetteville. For years we lived in Wyoming County and would pass the billboard each weekend as we came home to Nicholas County to visit. Seldom did we pass by that I didn't insist mom stop to let me read and look at the pictures. In 1977 we moved back here for good and didn't have occasion to pass by anymore. I never forgot the billboard but I did forget the name. I have asked friends and family and no one could remember the family name. Recently I was reading on a message board at the Raleigh newspaper and saw a thread about this case which eventually led me here!!!!!!!! :D I was so excited to see this thread and to realize it was current and active. I am trying to read all I can to get caught up and to remind myself of the facts I'd forgotten. I did notice on here that a granddaughter of the Sodder family was supposed to start a web site and wondered if there were any new info on this? Sure am glad to be among others interested in the same thing!

Shadow205

03-18-2006, 09:43 AM

fox1950

03-18-2006, 02:28 PM

Shadow205

03-18-2006, 03:01 PM

I got an email this morning from Jennie(Grand-daughter). Her and her brother are still working on the website and have come up with some new things to post. She said that it is some stuff that they found at her Aunts house. They have been very busy with work and have not been able to get the information scanned and ready to go up yet but are working on it. So for now, everyone who has an interest in the Sodder Family mystery, just sit tight.

Shadow205

03-18-2006, 03:29 PM

I bought the book "Last Mountain Dancer" by Chuck Kinder. The chapter on the Sodder children is "Missing Angels". There is just one thing that I found new and interesting in the book. It talks of Mr. Sodder's heated arguments with the Italy community of the area and speaks of him once receiving a paper with a black hand drawn on it. It does not say how he received this peice of paper, through the mail, given to him, etc. Has anyone heard that before? Also it tells of how his wife was so saddened about the story and Mrs. Sodder once saying that if her children were dead she would know it. She would be able to feel it. His wife agreed with what Mrs. Sodder had said over the years.
Black Hand symbol and name for a criminal and terroristic secret society, and especially associated with the Mafia (http://www.bartleby.com/65/ma/Mafia.html) and the Camorra (http://www.bartleby.com/65/ca/Camorra.html). The Black Hand flourished in Sicily in the late 19th cent., and in the United States it was especially active in New York City at the beginning of the 20th cent. It is estimated that at one time 90% of New York City’s Italian population was blackmailed by letters threatening death and marked with a black hand. Famous incidents associated with the Black Hand include the murder (1890) in New Orleans of chief of police Daniel Hennessy and the shooting (1909), in Palermo, Italy, of Lt. Joseph Petrosino of the New York City police.

MagicRose99

03-18-2006, 11:49 PM

I just have to comment here... the Italian mafia WAS a big deal back then... As a young man, my grandfather came over from Italy via the Italian Navy and jumped ship when it came into NY port... Later years, he ran an auto body shop in Jersey and had to pay / play with the mafia and their rules. When my Mom married Pop they even had the mafia at their wedding!

To the Italian immigrants the Mafia played a big part of their lives back then...

Black Hand symbol and name for a criminal and terroristic secret society, and especially associated with the Mafia (http://www.bartleby.com/65/ma/Mafia.html) and the Camorra (http://www.bartleby.com/65/ca/Camorra.html). The Black Hand flourished in Sicily in the late 19th cent., and in the United States it was especially active in New York City at the beginning of the 20th cent. It is estimated that at one time 90% of New York City’s Italian population was blackmailed by letters threatening death and marked with a black hand. Famous incidents associated with the Black Hand include the murder (1890) in New Orleans of chief of police Daniel Hennessy and the shooting (1909), in Palermo, Italy, of Lt. Joseph Petrosino of the New York City police.

Shadow205

03-19-2006, 09:17 AM

Magicrose99,

I know that the Mafia was a big deal back in that time. It also had a strong hold in WV as we dicussed in great depth earlier in this thread. There had been mention of a man who was upset with George over him speaking out against Mussolini but this is the first that I heard of George actually receiving the black hand. Very interesting Fox.

T'sNana

03-20-2006, 07:23 PM

Welcome to WS! I have been interested in this case since I was a little girl. I live right outside of Summersville in Mount Nebo. This is just a bit north of Fayetteville. For years we lived in Wyoming County and would pass the billboard each weekend as we came home to Nicholas County to visit. Seldom did we pass by that I didn't insist mom stop to let me read and look at the pictures. In 1977 we moved back here for good and didn't have occasion to pass by anymore. I never forgot the billboard but I did forget the name. I have asked friends and family and no one could remember the family name. Recently I was reading on a message board at the Raleigh newspaper and saw a thread about this case which eventually led me here!!!!!!!! :D I was so excited to see this thread and to realize it was current and active. I am trying to read all I can to get caught up and to remind myself of the facts I'd forgotten. I did notice on here that a granddaughter of the Sodder family was supposed to start a web site and wondered if there were any new info on this? Sure am glad to be among others interested in the same thing!

JBandy

04-07-2006, 09:20 AM

Hello all. I am starting to really dive into the material that I have. My goal this month is to list and sort out the players in the story and try to talk to the relatives of the players.

Jennie....I found the suitcase...all it had in it were really old newspaper clippings (I will copy and sent to Aunt Sylvia) I am trying to find copies of the originals...but the dates on most were not on them....and I also found some distorted photos....I am trying to see if I can get them refurbished.

Shadow...I PM'ed you....let me know if you are still interested in helping.

The one thing that I cannot place my finger on is the Dectective Magazine...can someone please copy the article and mail/e-mail it to me? I would really appreciate it.

I am going to be talking with my other family members about the story too...there are a lot of other great-grandchildren other the myself and Jennie. I thought this would allow for something that we are all missing to come out.

Stacy...Is there a time that we could have a phone conference?

I have also mailed a letter to the possible family member in Italy... A friend translated it for me....I asked for the family photo that she said she had....so if anything turns up there....it may help...

Thank you all for continued interest in this story....I really really appreciate it.

Jonathan

welder 79

04-09-2006, 03:04 PM

hey; Jonathan its nice to hear from yourall again, sound's like yourall getting a lot done. that's very good news..I would say we on this site will help yourall anyway they can..yes yourall very busy how do they say that in West Virgina??? more busy than a one legged man in a ass kicking contest..i hope that a little humor will brite-up yourall's day..

blueclouds

04-09-2006, 08:10 PM

Just got into this story. Very confusing to say the least. Curious as to why "Granddaughter" hasn't posted in quite sometime, anyone know?

thanks

Shadow205

04-09-2006, 08:28 PM

I have been in contact with Granddaughter via email. She has been very busy with work and has not had much time to post. She has still been busy getting some things together though and her brother is still working on a website for the Sodder children.

Just got into this story. Very confusing to say the least. Curious as to why "Granddaughter" hasn't posted in quite sometime, anyone know?

thanks

gardenmom

04-09-2006, 08:33 PM

I just wanted to let the Sodders know that I am still with them, and wish them luck.

blueclouds

04-09-2006, 10:30 PM

Now that I'm caught up to speed reading all this info for the past several hours, I just wanted to let you all know that I have put in a request to a contact of mine. He is an expert on fire investigations and has come across things like this. I have asked him all the basics of fire, heat, intensity and what could truly be found after a fire like this one. I have asked him to provide a variety of info and documentation that will back up info that he sends.

Apparently, regarding the cremation of people.... the OLDER the person, the LARGER the bone fragments in the cremation process. In younger people (as in my mother who died at 48 yrs old) there is a minimal amount of bone fragment and a great deal of smaller pieces.

When I compared my husbands dad's bones who was 79 to my mothers who was 48, there is a clear substantial difference in texture, size of bones and even color. While this sounds morbid to some, it interests me greatly.

WHY didn't children scream? They were overcome by smoke and most likely died prior to any flames reaching them.

WHY were there no bodies found? It is very possible that because of the intensity of the fire (house burning right down to the basement), the length of the fire, there truly was very minimal bones remaining that could eventually be seen by the naked eye.

Should there be an excavation of this site? If there are University students so willing to take this on AND the current property owners we hope would comply.... then absolutely.

Having stated all of this, I await my fire investigators response to all I forwarded him. When I get a reply, I will let you all know.

Truthfully, although we all wish they could be alive.... I for one believe that they did perish in the fire.

MANY of the "questions" and strange circumstances following up to the fire have been resolved. IE: late night phone calll and such.

And parents will grasp onto any unusual thing... anything slightest out of the way to comfort their grief. One of the ways is to come to believe your child is still alive and there has to be some mistake..... I've worked with many families of missing and murdered children and if there was ever an opportunity of their child being alive... or misidentified.... they grasp onto it.

I believe fully that the Sodder family was in such state of grief and with dad covering up the scene so quickly, that the answers were forever buried. For the older children never to have reached out and made an effort to call or anything..... leads me to suspect that this poor family found the only way they could to survive.... is to keep their hope alive.

mysteriew

04-10-2006, 12:57 AM

welder 79

04-10-2006, 01:43 AM

gasoline has a very low flash point that's is why its so dangerous -40 degrees and burn's only close to 850 degrees, natural gas will burn close to 1000 degree's, to get the heat range to completely start the cremation process you got to have atleast 1400 degrees nothing lower will do it..you need anywhere from above 1400 degress up to 1800 degress i say about 1600 degress be about the temp. you would try to stay at..and even at that temp. you talking about a 21/2 to 3 hour's burn time...to get this high temp and burn time you got to have a very controled environment with 2 or more compressed controled gasses working together to get the heat, time, and area to burn, to cremation of a human body. finding all these element's together inside a home is a very long shot...and for more than 1 person cremated that's close to impossible.. in all my year's as a vol. fire fighter i never seen a home fire where you can't find a part's of a body for each person missing in that house hold. My training yes i think i could do it but not with 1940's technology. it would be today's technology and i sure wouldn't put how i do it on internet or tell anybody unless they are a fire marshall or a arson detective and i still don't think i could get rid of all them kid's in the time frame without getting cought red handed .. you more than welcome to try your theory's but i can't see how it's possible not with the heat source, wide coverage area myself i don't think you can get even close to the heat needed to do the job.

blueclouds

04-10-2006, 01:51 AM

From everything we have gotten so far, one thing that doesn't burn are teeth. And with 5 kids being there, that would have been quite a few teeth. Yet despite the ashes being searched, they didn't find anything.

Going through every article I could find, there was never an indepth search of ashes. If the teeth were covered with black soot or whatever, it would take days to find them.

From all of this, the basic quick search was done and left for another day.... and before they could return, the father filled the entire area.

So, I agree, teeth would be located. absolutely which is why I agree there should be a dig of some sort.

blueclouds

04-10-2006, 01:55 AM

welder 79

04-10-2006, 03:16 AM

That's what is known by many yes, regarding cremation.... I'm going to throw in the proverbial "spontaneous human combustion" which used to ask the very same questions and offer up that it was impossible for a body to burn at that high heat as stated above.

In reading further studies about S.HUMAN.COM. there is actually no mystery at all. You can read up on that in depth if you choose. And those bodies DID generate heat enough to turn bone to ash and yet preserve much of the property surrounding it.

Again, I await a responses from my contact. It will be very interesting to hear further fires in homes and what condition bodies were in. i seen training film's showed real case's with real dead people and i know all about "SHC" ( 95% of them are smoker's or was ex-smokers that still smoked every once in a while FACT!!!)even them people leave body part's mostly leg's, shoe's, arm's cothing yes cothing!!!!still on the body..... Anyway you look at the case you got to prove THE Fact's HEAT--degree's/ TIME--- how long can you keep heat at a high temp.(est.1600 degress)/ AREA---you got to have the heat-temp(est.1600 degress) in a area all the kid's are in for the time peroid of 21/2 to 3 hours/... If you can't match each and every speciifications you will find pretty good sized body part's......I been to 50 or more home fire's where the home's are built in the 1940's or before..that was before flame retardant building material's they are lucky to burn more than 20 to 25 min's until all you got is ashes and the temp. don't come even near 650 degress because i checked it myself with a infered temp. gauge anyway you look at it. if they was human's killed in that fire you will find part's of them at the burn site...and it should been very easy to spot them!!!!I sure hope your mystery "contact" is not some jr firefighter?? IF so please don't waste my time iam a capt. with 1 wall full of Diploma's and starting on the next wall...if a body is so easy to burn to ashes no body be in jail everybody would shoot someone and light a match to the dead person and POOF no body....

welder 79

04-10-2006, 05:57 AM

oh ok we was talking about home fire's.. this could be something to keep in our mind's when looking into this and if anybody remember's the design of the home , i know in that area a lot of people heated and cooked with coal and sometime's they would put coal down a chute into the basement,, coal will burn at around 1450 degrees and that pretty hot.. now that sure could cause why some body's was never found . its was just a idea iam not sure if they even used coal or nothing about the design of the home.iam just trying to look at why no body's was found..

mysteriew

04-10-2006, 12:54 PM

welder 79

04-10-2006, 03:05 PM

Likely the home was heated with coal, but that is something maybe the grankids can tell us. Also, maybe they can tell us where the coal was stored............................................ .i sure do thank you, the above post's i keep trying to figure out how could so many people just dissapear without a trace due to a home fire?? but i keep getting distracted by a other post's . i got a chance away from computer and i thought COAL!!! it will produce the heat, the time, and the area to really do the job if everything (as sad as it is and no dissrespect to the family or anybody) but "if " everything just happened to be in the right spot at the right time it would produce one very big and hot fire, i heard somewhere that night there was high wind's that's would make the fire even hotter...but this is just a idea to keep in the back of our mind's we don't want to go down a road before its time.....iam going reread that book on combustible property's of coal, different grade's,btu's, ect. that's very interesting book..

mysteriew

04-10-2006, 03:12 PM

Mr. Sodder owned a trucking company and that is coal country which leads me to believe they probably heated with coal. But that is something the family will have to confirm. Also, different families would keep their coal in diffent places, so that will also be something they will need to tell us.

Elicere

04-10-2006, 05:02 PM

welder 79

04-10-2006, 10:41 PM

Is there a scan of the back of the photo of the possible Louis?

Something that struck me was the possiblity that maybe what is being read as 'love' is actually the word 'have'. I know that in my own handwriting - and especially when I am writing quickly - lowercase h's can look a lot like capital L's.

Just a thought.hi;; you must be new welcome hope you enjoy the site,, you could have something there..if iam not mistaken that photo is posted somewhere on this thread but where???? i would have to search and that will take some time..there is 2 thread's about the sodder family mystery on this site one just got so big we had to start a other one but its got some very good reading in both of the thread's. thank's and i hope you enjoy all the thread's..

JBandy

04-12-2006, 12:10 PM

gardenmom

04-12-2006, 12:30 PM

I am very good friends with the current owners. I have spoken with them and they have granted me permission to excavate the land where the house sat and I am currently working on a grant to fund this dig. If anyone has grant experience...I would love the help.
That is the best news I have heard in a very long time. I am sooooo happy for you. Maybe this will give you the answers you finally need. As for the grant writing, maybe post for help in the Jury Room in this site. Go to the main index and you will find it. :blowkiss:

Shadow205

04-12-2006, 01:21 PM

I am very good friends with the current owners. I have spoken with them and they have granted me permission to excavate the land where the house sat and I am currently working on a grant to fund this dig. If anyone has grant experience...I would love the help.
Jonathan, that is great news. Shadowangel and I had explored the possibility of having an archeology class from WVU or Marshall University do it as a class project(for free). What do you think of that idea?

JBandy

04-12-2006, 01:46 PM

That is a wonderful idea...do you know any contact information for the department chairs at these schools? I will contact them.

Jonathan, that is great news. Shadowangel and I had explored the possibility of having an archeology class from WVU or Marshall University do it as a class project(for free). What do you think of that idea?

welder 79

04-13-2006, 12:23 AM

god this is wonderfull news.... i can try to look natural we want the very best we can get.. if iam not misstaken jonathan they got a class that will do that from mountain state u from beckley, west virginia but i dont know how good they are...iam no family member or am i trying to tell you or family what to do. but i feel this is a once in a life time chance!!! please try to get the very best highly recommend group we can get to do this.....we want only the very best for our good friend's such as you...maybe a idea how about contacting the West Virginia State Police they i would think know the best place to go because they would use that type of service more than anybody else in the state and i would think the be more than glad to help you out???? and you got virginia tech. in blackburg va. that's not to far away.

Shadow205

04-13-2006, 08:55 AM

That is a wonderful idea...do you know any contact information for the department chairs at these schools? I will contact them.
http://www.wvu.edu/~forensic/

http://www.marshall.edu/sociology/FIELDSC.HTML

You'll find some phone numbers at the links

WVU has a new Forensic Science Program that might offer some help too.

mysteriew

04-13-2006, 09:39 AM

WVU sounds like the place to start. You could send both the archaelogy dept and the forensics dept. a letter outlining the story, then tell them the current property owner has given permission for an excavation and offer the forensics dept access to all the info the family has. Because they are the same school, it should help ease scheduling and coordination problems.

Though if Marshall offers the same type of programs you could contact both depts. there also and see if they are interested, and then take the best offer.

shadowangel

04-13-2006, 10:39 AM

This school advertises a BS degree in Forensics, specializing in fire and arson investigation:
Mountain State University

PO Box 9003
Beckley, WV 25802

http://forensics.mountainstate.edu (http://forensics.mountainstate.edu/)
(866) FOR-MSUI or (866) 367-6781
Office of Enrollment Management
School of Arts and Sciences
gomsu@mountainstate.edu (%0d%0agomsu@mountainstate.edu)

WVU's Forensics Dep't:

(304) 293-2453, ext. 2
Fax: (304) 293-2663
Dr. Clifton Bishop
clifton.bishop@mail.wvu.edu (%0d%0aclifton.bishop@mail.wvu.edu)

Another address for MSU in Beckley (Forensics Dep't):
http://forensics.mountainstate.edu (http://forensics.mountainstate.edu/)
(800) 766-6067, ext 1311
Jennifer McMillion
Administrative Secretary, School of Arts and Sciences
jmcmillion@mountainstate.edu (jmcmillion@mountainstate.edu)

Marshall University's Forensics Dep't:
http://forensics.marshall.edu/MUFSC_Homepage.htm (http://forensics.marshall.edu/MUFSC_Homepage.htm)
(304) 690-GENE (4363)
Dr. Terry Fenger
fenger@marshall.edu (fenger@marshall.edu)

shadowangel

04-13-2006, 10:53 AM

FYI, here is a link to accredited forensics programs in schools throughout the US:

http://www.aafs.org/?section_id=resources&page_id=colleges_and_universities

Also---The director of training for the WV State Police Academy

Director of Training
Captain Jess W. Gundy

jgundy@wvsp.state.wv.us

JBandy

04-13-2006, 02:00 PM

WOW! Thanks a lot for finding all of these different groups to contact. I am going to get together a letter this weekend to write to these individuals. I will plan to mail it out next week. I will keep everyone updated.

shadowangel

04-13-2006, 02:09 PM

Council for WV Archaeology

http://cwva.org/

shadowangel

04-13-2006, 02:17 PM

This guy, based in Morgantown, has an extensive archaeological resume---

http://www.prehistoricplanet.com/wv/features/petroglyphs/pyle.htm

This page contains links to WV archaeological resources...

http://archaeology.about.com/library/atlas/bluswv.htm

mfmangel1

04-13-2006, 04:38 PM

I am very good friends with the current owners. I have spoken with them and they have granted me permission to excavate the land where the house sat and I am currently working on a grant to fund this dig. If anyone has grant experience...I would love the help.

Marshall University also offers support for research assisting faculty in pursuit of external funding and providing administrative services to deal with grants.
If you can get the faculty interested in the dig, they may provide the funding.

http://www.marshall.edu/www/research.asp

I live within a few miles of Marshall and some relatives are alumnis.

Stacy Horn

04-16-2006, 11:34 AM

Jonathan, I work out of my home and I'm back in New York, so I'm pretty much available a lot. That is such great news about getting permission for the dig.

welder 79

04-16-2006, 07:27 PM

[QUOTE=shadowangel]This guy, based in Morgantown, has an extensive archaeological resume---

http://www.prehistoricplanet.com/wv/features/petroglyphs/pyle.htm I worked with and meet Dr.Pyle from WVU on a other case a very nice man and his crew was very nice and respectfull too. To me he did a very fine job on that case a little slow but very good. I think its better beening slow and correct than fast and a big mess on a case like this myself...Iam not sure what he like's to specialist in real old like thousand +, or last hundred year's old case's??? This might be a good question to ask him if you deside to go with a WVU team??? I honsetly forgot all about him until "shadowangel" posted this!! thank you shadowangel!!!!!..... Myself I very highly recommend him he surprized me with his knowledge and down to earth way of explain question's i had about that other case...

This page contains links to WV archaeological resources...

http://archaeology.about.com/library/atlas/bluswv.htm[/QU

Shadow205

04-25-2006, 01:28 AM

Jonathan,

Any progress on the excavation?

LButler

05-03-2006, 12:59 PM

Hi guys and gals. Stopped in yesterday to catch up on things and the news of the excavation of the site is great!!

With thoughts of the Sodders fresh in my mind once again, I decided to take a drive by the house site yesterday evening. It had been years since I had travelled in that direction. Even though I am somewhat familiar with the road and the area, I had never driven it with the thoughts of 5 kids possibly being abducted and travelling that route 60 years ago. I was struck by the wildness and the ruggedness of the area and it felt as if centuries of lost souls inhabit the place.

I decided that I would try to locate a topo map of the area for roughly the time period of the fire. I am completely curious to know what houses were there at the time, what roads they used, and so on... I'm not sure how easy that search will be, but I know those maps are out there.

I have a thought on the theory of a coal fire burning extra hot. And, I agree that they will. My only thought is this: Will coal stay hot enough for the time period needed to completely destroy the bones? I know it will if coal is continually fed onto the fire, but no one was feeding this fire. Just a thought. My experience on coal fires is standing in front of my grandma's hearth in the winter until the backs of my legs were burning. So, just like grandma, I'm sure they used coal to heat the house. Her coal pile was outside.

jbandy ... sorry i missed the PM from you moons ago, I simply haven't been on here. Sounds like you're getting a lot done. I think the key to answers is simply forging relationships with folks in the area (like you have done with the current property owners). There were people who knew what happened that night. Those stories have been passed down and I trully believe the answers are closer than we think.

welder 79

05-03-2006, 03:07 PM

I done some refresh studing about the coal fire theory from my last post..This is still just a long shot guess of what maybe happened really we don't have no fact's that i see that there home was even heated by coal but this was very common at this time and area to do so, but again so is if they had natural gas and had a gas well on there property it was very common for the gas company to give them free natural gas service.. Iam really trying to say it would be unfair at this time that this is maybe what happened when we really have no fact's supporting it...But yes i think the basic theory is sound. time of year yes they should had a good stockpile of coal, I allmost sure i saw where they was high or very high wind's at the time of the fire this make it hot enough to melt mild steel..But there still got to be a lot of thing's to have too happen just right to cause this tragedy!! the placement of the coal stockpile at the homesite, the area where the missing loveone's was to this area, type of heating stove and number of them, I could keep on going but i feel we need to wait until more proof is established...But yes i feel this is possible this could have happened but all the number of person's missing i would have to say it's a very long shot without leaving some type of bone's or something to see beside's teeth..

Granddaughter

05-12-2006, 02:23 PM

Hi all -

Sorry for the long absence. As indicated in an earlier post, my brother and I both have been involved in major commitments at work recently.

On with the important news ... my brother has completed an initial version of the website! Some information is already posted, and we will continue to add to it. The web address is http://www.sodderchildren.com.

Mira

05-12-2006, 02:59 PM

such beautiful children.

i found it odd that not one has a smile. the youngest looks like she is about to cry, and the oldest looks positively haunted.

does anyone have some portrait photos from this same era? im wondering if photographers didnt ask for a smile, in those days.

MagicRose99

05-12-2006, 05:03 PM

If you look at pictures from the "younger years" you hardly ever see one smiling. I think it was considered "undignified" or "proper" not to pose serenely for the pictures.

such beautiful children.

i found it odd that not one has a smile. the youngest looks like she is about to cry, and the oldest looks positively haunted.

does anyone have some portrait photos from this same era? im wondering if photographers didnt ask for a smile, in those days.

MagicRose99

05-12-2006, 05:05 PM

Wonderful website! Your brother did a fantastic job!

Hi all -

Sorry for the long absence. As indicated in an earlier post, my brother and I both have been involved in major commitments at work recently.

On with the important news ... my brother has completed an initial version of the website! Some information is already posted, and we will continue to add to it. The web address is http://www.sodderchildren.com (http://www.sodderchildren.com/).

mysteriew

05-12-2006, 07:02 PM

Just took a look at the website. Great Job! Nice clean look, simple to navigate.
Now the thing is to get the site targeted to the people who may have info. If I could make a suggestion?.......several of the printers offer samples of their work by making up business cards and the only charge is for shipping. Would it be possible to make business cards with the website address on it and leave them in public areas there.....library, grocery, laundrymat, post office etc?
Also, for family members.....the question has come up as to how the home was heated? And where the fuel source was stored?

Shadow205

05-16-2006, 06:42 PM

Granddaughter,

So glad to see the website go up. Maybe it will generate some new information. IMO, there are still people around who know what happened that night.

fox1950

05-17-2006, 04:39 PM

Thanks, Jennie,

Very informative website. It answered some of my questions. Did your family know the people who came to the home after the fire to see the "babies" or were they strangers?

hoping4truth

05-19-2006, 02:15 PM

I am new on this thread and have read it through, and I wanted to bring up something I didn't really see mentioned.

I would like to say first off, that I don't believe that these five children died in that fire. I am by no means an expert on fire, but I would think there would be a lot of physical remnants (like most of you others think as well).

But I wanted to say this:

Regarding the actions of the fire chief (If my memory serves, he was a volunteer, right?) I believe he was extremely unprofessional - as most (if not all) of you agree. But I see in a less negative light. Put yourself there: it was Christmas Day – a time for joy - and this family had lost (presumably) five children in a house fire. The entire town was witness to the tragedy, and no doubt the entire family was suffering. The circumstances around it were mysterious, no doubt, and would have had merit (at least, in today’s world) to be given a more thorough investigation, but I tend to think that his intentions were not to cover up the crime, as much as to give the family some closure. I tend to think that the Priest and the relative did the same. It definitely does not make those actions appropriate, but I could see someone, maybe with children of his own, telling this family he found remains so they could be buried and the family could move on. I don't think he counted on them being so suspicious - he probably was hoping they'd take his word for it. It does not excuse his actions - he was the closest thing that town had to being a professional, and he took advantage of his position to dupe an unsuspecting family, but I don't believe his intentions were sinister. A lot of people do dishonest things to try and lessen the pain of one of their friends or family, it doesn't make it right, but it doesn't mean that this person was involved in a plot to destroy a family, or cover up who did. In fact, I believe that if this man who's last name starts with a "J" (Janotulo??) was involved, it just so happened that this man helped cover up the crime, probably unintentionally.

And the fact that the Sodders were so mistrusting of those findings, it makes me wonder if some memories came back to Jenny and George that made them conclude that they were kidnapped and not murdered. I saw on here that someone mentioned the Sodders got a "black hand", I don't remember if it said where that information came from (whether it was rumor, fact, or legend) but that would be a great reason to doubt the authorities of that time. Someone mentioned that when working with the families of victims, they resist that their family members are found murdered - they don't want to believe them to be dead). But those people had a corpse - some tangable way for them to see that their family member was in fact, dead, they (at least with modern technology) could do DNA or Dental comparisons to verify. In one way or another, those family members would have to come to terms - and I'm sure it wouldn't have been easy. But the Sodders had nothing.

I hope this excavation brings more answers than questions, although I fear otherwise.

welder 79

05-21-2006, 12:33 AM

hoping4truth.............very good post i enjoyed reading it.. I myself often thought about the fire chief's actions??? they was very strange to say the least..Iam no way trying to take up for him but i try to put myself back in his time and technology on dec. 1945 in rural west virigina...equipment that the fire station had at that time i have no idea..but training wise i say they had very little if any.. no 2-way radio's,,to call the men out i say they had a old air siren at the fire station that on a quiet nice day you might hear it 1 to 2 mile's away, a cold windy day far less....It's sure not like in 2006 where i can go to fire station and take all kind's of University credible classes on a direct satellite hook-up and asked question's in real time...even today it's very hard to get vol. firefighter's to come out on any holiday's and Christmas eve its real hard!!..different fire dept's work different like i think foam injected water is the best but other dept's don't agree.. but that fire chief in that town really did act strange too me but i have never heard his side of the story.. maybe somewhere we can find his report on the fire hopefully...I try to start looking for it but don't hold your breath it be very lucky if we can find it..:D

drema

05-24-2006, 09:30 PM

blueclouds

05-24-2006, 10:25 PM

Here is a website that you can view the death certificates of the missing Sodder children along with brother Michael's: http://www.wvculture.org/vrr (http://www.wvculture.org/vrr). Go under "Death" and type the name Sodder. All the children's death certifications are there to view.

When I downloaded and printed them out quite sometime ago.... it stated clearly that date of death was 25th of Xmas and BURIAL WAS 27TH. 2 days after the fire - meaning George buried them 2 days later. Again, a fire that actually burned all night with coal in the home too - will result in UNDETECTABLE SMALL - EXTREMELY SMALL FRAGMENTS of skeleton...

AND speaking to my forensic EXPERT FIRE / HOMICIDE / ARSON INVESTIGATOR determined that unless you had experts digging for quite sometime long after the fire was cooled - you would not have found the children.

It is extremely clear to me that the children DID die that night and the answers are there. IT WAS THE FATHER's tremendous grief that drove him to want so desperately to believe his children still were alive..... survivors guilt to say the least.

I can get this expert to put his thoughts and beliefs in writing. He said he'd highly welcome an expert excavation (THOROUGH) - and there will be remains found.

I feel such tremendous sadness for the remaining children and the shadows they grew up in having their parents not provide their full love and attention solely for the living children and still live their lives in grief. Rumors get started but many of the rumors have been proven and dispelled. It's the continuing NEED to believe that the parents didn't do all their searching in vain.... because that is what it would be - in vain.

It would still leave a very big hole in the family today to let this go and know those children died that night.

So sad all around but i think the family needs to go to TODAY'S EXPERTS AND THE PROSECUTOR IN THE COUNTY to get finality on this. Having a very old letter stating a &qu