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deanws
01-16-2006, 05:09 PM
Thanks to Cami, I just finished reading Precious Angels. If accurate, this book pretty much clears up a lot of questions in my mind. I can't find the link, but someone had questioned where the Leesa show got the information about the knife going through the body and through the carpet with tremendous force. Whether it is true or not, she probably got the information from the book Precious Angels. In the very back of the book under Author's Notes....page 307.

According to forensic evidence, the murderer stabbed Devon once in the upper left side of his chest. Devon began kicking with his feet and flailing his legs desperately trying to keep the eight inch knife blade of the butcher knife from cutting him. The fight not only accounts for Darlie's injured arm, but it explains Devon's defense wound on the back part of his upper thigh and buttocks as well as the bruises on the heals on both feet.
The bloody outline of the butcher knife imprinted on the carpet next to his body indicated it was placed there while Devon was pinned down to end the furious struggle. The fatal wound pierced his body with such force the blade went all the way through to the concrete underneath the carpet, leaving an indenture mark. The final savage blow happened so fast Devon died so fast before he could blink his eyes.

deanws
01-16-2006, 05:44 PM
I have always thought Darin was in this up to his coke bottle eye glasses. I found this in Precious Angels and thought it was VERY interesting. I guess LE also thinks he was involved but can't seem to get the goods on him to prosecute the loser....No wonder Darin is staying low and not doing anything to call attention to himself! :behindbar

In May 1998, Darin Routier failed a polygraph test arranged by Brian Pardo, a Waco Multimillionaire insurance salesman who had taken up Darlie's cause.
Prosecutor Greg Davis remarked, "If additional evidence comes to my attention that leads me to believe that someone else participated with Darlie, then we will take that to the Grand Jury.(315-316)
I also think the questions he failed shows that HE WAS INVOLVED!!!

On the polygraph exam, Darin was asked," Where you involved in any plan to commit a crime in your home in June of 1996?"; "Do you know who exactly left that sock in the alleyway?"; "Did you yourself stab Darlie on June 6, 1996?" and "Can you name the person who stabbed your sons?" To each question Darin answered "No". According to the polygraph examiner hired by Pardo, Darin failed those four specific questions. Pardo said he considered the results significant and hoped the district attorney would reopen the investigation.

Why didn't they ask him if he helped kill those kids!?!?! :razz:

michelle
01-16-2006, 05:47 PM
Thanks to Cami, I just finished reading Precious Angels. If accurate, this book pretty much clears up a lot of questions in my mind. I can't find the link, but someone had questioned where the Leesa show got the information about the knife going through the body and through the carpet with tremendous force. Whether it is true or not, she probably got the information from the book Precious Angels. In the very back of the book under Author's Notes....page 307.

According to forensic evidence, the murderer stabbed Devon once in the upper left side of his chest. Devon began kicking with his feet and flailing his legs desperately trying to keep the eight inch knife blade of the butcher knife from cutting him. The fight not only accounts for Darlie's injured arm, but it explains Devon's defense wound on the back part of his upper thigh and buttocks as well as the bruises on the heals on both feet.
The bloody outline of the butcher knife imprinted on the carpet next to his body indicated it was placed there while Devon was pinned down to end the furious struggle. The fatal wound pierced his body with such force the blade went all the way through to the concrete underneath the carpet, leaving an indenture mark. The final savage blow happened so fast Devon died so fast before he could blink his eyes. poor babies i hate hearing what they went through, i read that book also, i have it here somewhere...I also have hush little babies, i believe thats the name...I used to think they were innocent.....

beesy
01-16-2006, 05:52 PM
Thanks to Cami, I just finished reading Precious Angels. If accurate, this book pretty much clears up a lot of questions in my mind. I can't find the link, but someone had questioned where the Leesa show got the information about the knife going through the body and through the carpet with tremendous force. Whether it is true or not, she probably got the information from the book Precious Angels. In the very back of the book under Author's Notes....page 307.

According to forensic evidence, the murderer stabbed Devon once in the upper left side of his chest. Devon began kicking with his feet and flailing his legs desperately trying to keep the eight inch knife blade of the butcher knife from cutting him. The fight not only accounts for Darlie's injured arm, but it explains Devon's defense wound on the back part of his upper thigh and buttocks as well as the bruises on the heals on both feet.
The bloody outline of the butcher knife imprinted on the carpet next to his body indicated it was placed there while Devon was pinned down to end the furious struggle. The fatal wound pierced his body with such force the blade went all the way through to the concrete underneath the carpet, leaving an indenture mark. The final savage blow happened so fast Devon died so fast before he could blink his eyes. That was me, but I wasn't asking where Leeza got the information. I know she got it from Bab's mangled account. Trouble with that is, it's not true. Go look at the autopsy photos and you'll see Devon does not have any exit wounds. Few, if any of those bruises on her arms could have come from him kicking her. I think he did pull his legs up and kick and that's how he got the cut on his upper butt.
And sigh, the bloody outline of the knife(Darlie's blood) was near where Damon died. So even when Babs believe Darlie did it, she was still wrong.

deanws
01-16-2006, 06:00 PM
Another thing I read was that Pardo said for Darlie to cut off all correspondence with Darin for 30 days after that failed polygraph incident. I can't believe Pardo would actually think that she was innocent! I think I might have misinterpreted Darin's loyalty to Darlie. It might be out of fear rather than love/lust. I knew he said he wasn't going to trade places with her...but I didn't know they had that jailhouse fight with her saying he was cheating and her saying she was having a lust letter writing thing with Adams. I am glad I read it. Thanks a million Cami!!:woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:
Yep...those losers did it together...just like I always thought. I have one more question guys. Is this the same author that has turned around and said she thinks Darlie is now innocent? If it is...I don't see how she can turn around and say that. She made pretty compelling arguments as to Darlie's guilt!:confused:

michelle
01-16-2006, 06:09 PM
Another thing I read was that Pardo said for Darlie to cut off all correspondence with Darin for 30 days after that failed polygraph incident. I can't believe Pardo would actually think that she was innocent! I think I might have misinterpreted Darin's loyalty to Darlie. It might be out of fear rather than love/lust. I knew he said he wasn't going to trade places with her...but I didn't know they had that jailhouse fight with her saying he was cheating and her saying she was having a lust letter writing thing with Adams. I am glad I read it. Thanks a million Cami!!:woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:
Yep...those losers did it together...just like I always thought. I have one more question guys. Is this the same author that has turned around and said she thinks Darlie is now innocent? If it is...I don't see how she can turn around and say that. She made pretty compelling arguments as to Darlie's guilt!:confused: i believe this is the same author, the author now believes that she is innocent and feels bad for writing that book...

deanws
01-16-2006, 06:18 PM
That was me, but I wasn't asking where Leeza got the information. I know she got it from Bab's mangled account. Trouble with that is, it's not true. Go look at the autopsy photos and you'll see Devon does not have any exit wounds. Few. of any of those bruises on her arms could have come from him kicking her. I think he did pull his legs up and kick and that's how he got the cut on his upper butt.
And sigh, the bloody outline of the knife(Darlie's blood) was near where Damon died. So even when Babs believe Darlie did it, she was still wrong.I'll take your word for it. I know you have been right on top of the facts. I know they all make mistakes writing the books. Even Nancy Grace...and I love her to death. He had the bruises on his heals. He kicked something pretty hard. Anyway...I believe she said she got that theroy from one of Darlie's family members that thinks she did kill the kids. After that polygraph, how can both mothers NOT see that those two are guilty as sin!!!??!?!:doh:

deanws
01-16-2006, 06:21 PM
i believe this is the same author, the author now believes that she is innocent and feels bad for writing that book...What do you think Michelle? I think she and Darin BOTH are guilty and they did it together. I have believed that for years. I had only read the transcripts and stuff on the net before Cami let me read those books. I am sooooo happy with your and Cami's books. I love to read good books. :D I will be getting MTJD pretty soon also. I am as happy as a pig in a puddle. http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/39/39_3_10.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZNxdm824YYUS) :D

feenix
01-16-2006, 06:34 PM
That was me, but I wasn't asking where Leeza got the information. I know she got it from Bab's mangled account. Trouble with that is, it's not true. Go look at the autopsy photos and you'll see Devon does not have any exit wounds. Few. of any of those bruises on her arms could have come from him kicking her. I think he did pull his legs up and kick and that's how he got the cut on his upper butt.
And sigh, the bloody outline of the knife(Darlie's blood) was near where Damon died. So even when Babs believe Darlie did it, she was still wrong.
Barbara Davis explains why she changed her mind about Darlies guilt and makes an official statement on her website. Interesting reading, but enough to make ones blood boil.

http://www.authorbarbaradavis.com/statement.php

michelle
01-16-2006, 07:02 PM
What do you think Michelle? I think she and Darin BOTH are guilty and they did it together. I have believed that for years. I had only read the transcripts and stuff on the net before Cami let me read those books. I am sooooo happy with your and Cami's books. I love to read good books. :D I will be getting MTJD pretty soon also. I am as happy as a pig in a puddle. http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/39/39_3_10.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZNxdm824YYUS) :D you know i really dont know what to think about these murders, in a way i dont think they did it, but then again i do, i guess i will have to refresh myself again and read the books, i read them when they first came out and i really didnt understand stuff like "evidence" and what they had against them, so i will read it again...but since they havent found the real killers i cant help but think the right person is in jail, but i want to know why hasnt darin been investigated?? I will send you more books when you need them, we can swap, i love to read!!!

michelle
01-16-2006, 08:54 PM
does anyone know what darin is up to these days? who has their son, him?

deanws
01-16-2006, 09:02 PM
you know i really dont know what to think about these murders, in a way i dont think they did it, but then again i do, i guess i will have to refresh myself again and read the books, i read them when they first came out and i really didnt understand stuff like "evidence" and what they had against them, so i will read it again...but since they havent found the real killers i cant help but think the right person is in jail, but i want to know why hasnt darin been investigated?? I will send you more books when you need them, we can swap, i love to read!!!Great. As soon as I unpack my books...I will pick some out and send them! :dance:

deanws
01-16-2006, 09:05 PM
Barbara Davis explains why she changed her mind about Darlies guilt and makes an official statement on her website. Interesting reading, but enough to make ones blood boil.

http://www.authorbarbaradavis.com/statement.phpOH GREAT!! Thanks for the link...I am off to read.:blowkiss:

michelle
01-16-2006, 09:08 PM
ok so she feels really bad now and she thinks darlie is innocent but why? because there were pics that werent shown to the jurors b/c i read that as well and seen a juror talk about how he didnt see her bruises ect....

michelle
01-16-2006, 09:29 PM
Great. As soon as I unpack my books...I will pick some out and send them! :dance: oh good, i love to read!!! that was a good link i havent seen those crime scene photos before....

beesy
01-17-2006, 12:31 AM
ok so she feels really bad now and she thinks darlie is innocent but why? because there were pics that werent shown to the jurors b/c i read that as well and seen a juror talk about how he didnt see her bruises ect....because Chris Brown somehow got to her. He is such a nut, her supporters don't even acknowledge him anymore. He is simply "a source" now. All of the photos were submitted as evidence and shown to the jury. The other jurors agree with this. Again, check the transcripts. It's all in there.
Those bruises don't mean a damn thing anyway. They are not defense wounds and they are much too consistent to come from being kicked. Darlie never explains those bruises. She never says "I got hit with a club". She just shows them to everybody and says boo-hoo. :boohoo:

beesy
01-17-2006, 12:34 AM
does anyone know what darin is up to these days? who has their son, him? His mother, Sarilda. She's got legal custody

deanws
01-17-2006, 12:38 AM
His mother, Sarilda. She's got legal custodyI heard that Darin was keeping him most of the time. Is this just another rumor? Did you read my pm?

beesy
01-17-2006, 12:48 AM
I'll take your word for it. I know you have been right on top of the facts. I know they all make mistakes writing the books. Even Nancy Grace...and I love her to death. He had the bruises on his heals. He kicked something pretty hard. Anyway...I believe she said she got that theroy from one of Darlie's family members that thinks she did kill the kids. After that polygraph, how can both mothers NOT see that those two are guilty as sin!!!??!?!:doh: You don't have to take my word for it. It's right there in the autopsy photos and report. And even Crazy Chris says Babs was wrong about that. She didn't have to up the gore in this case, but she seemed compelled to. You can look and look for that statement in all of the official documents and it's not there anywhere. Anywhere. It doesn't take much to see there isn't an exit wound. And everything about the knife outline is as clear as a bell too. I don't know where she was or how she got that crucial piece of info mixed up. The knife outline is very important because it was made by Darlie's blood. There is a heavy concentration of her blood at the tip which can only come from someone who is bleeding from that arm(Darlie was) holding the knife downwards for a period of time. Darlie denies ever taking the knife back into the family room. She says the boys were attacked before she was. Obviously that knife didn't walk itself back into the room. There was no spatter where she claimed the intruder dropped the knife on the floor. She says she picked it up and put it on the counter. Yet, somehow it ended up back in the family room beside Damon with Darlie's blood all over it.....http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/39.gif
Devon did raise his legs up and kick at Darlie. Nobody ever checked her torso and there could have been some bruises there. The cut on his butt and the bruises on his feet indicate he kicked at his killer. Some people believe tht Darlie did not mean to make herself a victim that night. There is some thought that perhaps she was injured during the fight with Devon and so had to put herself into the attack.

beesy
01-17-2006, 12:55 AM
I'll take your word for it. I know you have been right on top of the facts. I know they all make mistakes writing the books. Even Nancy Grace...and I love her to death. He had the bruises on his heals. He kicked something pretty hard. Anyway...I believe she said she got that theroy from one of Darlie's family members that thinks she did kill the kids. After that polygraph, how can both mothers NOT see that those two are guilty as sin!!!??!?!:doh: I wonder if Babs even looked at any of the autopsy reports and photos? There is no doubt at all that he didn't have an exit wound, no more than I do. And by the way, Darin nodded and agreed with Leeza when she said that on her show. Now Darin, of all people should know the injuries his boys received. :loser: And that, my friend is why you have to take everything you see on her sites with a grain of salt. Not the official documents of course, but the personal interviews and Darlie's written account is mostly bullpoopy

deanws
01-17-2006, 12:55 AM
beesy...what about those questions on Darin's polygraph? He failed all of those questions....which proves the did help. If that was not a fact..he would have sued her butt off. So...he did at least stab Darlie. Also, he was deceptive about planing a crime at his house that night. Now, what is your take on all of this? It points to his involvement all the way!

beesy
01-17-2006, 12:57 AM
I heard that Darin was keeping him most of the time. Is this just another rumor? Did you read my pm? Yeah, I did. I'm sure he does stay with Darin some, but she has legal custody.

deanws
01-17-2006, 12:59 AM
I wonder if Babs even looked at any of the autopsy reports and photos? There is no doubt at all that he didn't have an exit wound, no more than I do. And by the way, Darin nodded and agreed with Leeza when she said that on her show. Now Darin, of all people should know the injuries his boys received. :loser: And that, my friend is why you have to take everything you see on her sites with a grain of salt. Not the official documents of course, but the personal interviews and Darlie's written account is mostly bullpoopyI agree with that. BUT...I don't think Darin was even paying attention. I mean he is involved with those kids deaths, and he even left the pics in the attic. He knows she is guilty...and yet he gave up his son to his parents on the last hearing because he was "interested in finding the killer of his children" bullcrapola! So....again...what is your take on the polygraph he failed?

deanws
01-17-2006, 01:03 AM
I wonder if Babs even looked at any of the autopsy reports and photos? There is no doubt at all that he didn't have an exit wound, no more than I do. And by the way, Darin nodded and agreed with Leeza when she said that on her show. Now Darin, of all people should know the injuries his boys received. :loser: And that, my friend is why you have to take everything you see on her sites with a grain of salt. Not the official documents of course, but the personal interviews and Darlie's written account is mostly bullpoopyHeck....does Darlie even have an account? LOL...everytime she opens her mouth it is something dumb and different than what she told the time before. Also, she did more damage to herself than the state did on the stand. Gosh...give the chick a new trial...put her on the stand first....no need for the state to send a lawyer....she will convict herself! OMGosh...what a fool she is! :laugh:

beesy
01-17-2006, 01:05 AM
beesy...what about those questions on Darin's polygraph? He failed all of those questions....which proves the did help. If that was not a fact..he would have sued her butt off. So...he did at least stab Darlie. Also, he was deceptive about planing a crime at his house that night. Now, what is your take on all of this? It points to his involvement all the way! He admits he failed the polygraph. He claims it was due to survivor's guilt. Sounds like something he found on the Net. Survivor's guilt usually occurs in something like a car accident(especially the driver) and large disasters like the WTC and the OKC attacks. It's more of a "Why did I live? She was standing right beside me" Also the questions did not pertain to anything like survivor's guilt. He feels guilty because he is guilty of something. Polygraph results cannot be used in court and there is not any forensic evidence against Darin. :furious: I think he's going to get away with it, as far as serving time.

deanws
01-17-2006, 01:05 AM
Bab says that she was at court the whole time. Not missing even one day. Guess she doesn't listen very well.

deanws
01-17-2006, 01:17 AM
He admits he failed the polygraph. He claims it was due to survivor's guilt. Sounds like something he found on the Net. Survivor's guilt usually occurs in something like a car accident(especially the driver) and large disasters like the WTC and the OKC attacks. It's more of a "Why did I live? She was standing right beside me" Also the questions did not pertain to anything like survivor's guilt. He feels guilty because he is guilty of something. Polygraph results cannot be used in court and there is not any forensic evidence against Darin. :furious: I think he's going to get away with it, as far as serving time. I know that they can't be used in trial. I am just asking you what you think of the list of questions. It says to me that he was in it up to his eyes. Also, IYO do you think it was to Darin's advantage that he was not wearing a shirt? I mean, that way it couldn't be tested for blood spatter patterns. Also, why were his jeans never tested? And, why in the hell didn't her attorney ask for the testing when the evidence was being tested before trial? Yes, those questions had nothing to do with survivors guilt. Do you know who stabbed your kids...has nothing to do with anything but those kids...except when you are trying to save yourself. And, what about the ...did you stab Darlie? That is a very dry question. There would be nothing to get upset about...unless you did do it...which of course I believe he did. Now....just for a second consider the possibility that they were in this together...and decided that she would be the one to take the fall for trial...believing that the jury wouldn't convict a Mom for killing her own kids. I mean....they both planned with the original attorney saying that nothing pointing to Darin's guilt could be used. Remember that agreement? Now I am just throwing stuff out there...trying to get some new ideas floating around ...so don't hit me too hard! LOL;)

beesy
01-17-2006, 01:19 AM
http://www.justicefordarlie.net/
On this site, go to the Galleries section, gallery 4, photo 3 shows the knife outline very clearly. Then still in gallery 4, photo 8 shows where Damon died. It's easy to see the outline was near him.
Then Gallery 5, photo 8, is a blowup of Devon's injuries. One stab does get very close to going all the way through, but it doesn't.

beesy
01-17-2006, 01:36 AM
I know that they can't be used in trial. I am just asking you what you think of the list of questions. It says to me that he was in it up to his eyes. Also, IYO do you think it was to Darin's advantage that he was not wearing a shirt? I mean, that way it couldn't be tested for blood spatter patterns. Also, why were his jeans never tested? And, why in the hell didn't her attorney ask for the testing when the evidence was being tested before trial? Yes, those questions had nothing to do with survivors guilt. Do you know who stabbed your kids...has nothing to do with anything but those kids...except when you are trying to save yourself. And, what about the ...did you stab Darlie? That is a very dry question. There would be nothing to get upset about...unless you did do it...which of course I believe he did. Now....just for a second consider the possibility that they were in this together...and decided that she would be the one to take the fall for trial...believing that the jury wouldn't convict a Mom for killing her own kids. I mean....they both planned with the original attorney saying that nothing pointing to Darin's guilt could be used. Remember that agreement? Now I am just throwing stuff out there...trying to get some new ideas floating around ...so don't hit me too hard! LOL;) Oh, I thought I did answer your question. I was just mentioning about the results not being used in court as an aside that Darin could wiggle out of this.
He failed the important Q's due to real guilt, no other reason. IMO
I think Darin caught Darlie right after she stabbed both boys and then they decided together to cover it up. I don't think the murders were his idea. There is too much evidence that Darin and Darlie didn't even know about for them to have set it up for her to take the fall. I don't think they are that smart. They'd have to know that if they cleaned up the blood in the sink and around the sink then Luminol would pick it up. Does that sound like something they would know?
The reason I believe Darin did not help plan the murders is his description of when he first ran downstairs. He describes things as moving in slo-mo, he's confused, he thinks the glass table has fallen and cut Devon, he doesn't even see that Damon is also injured. These are very typical trauma reactions. Voices sound like Charlie Brown's teacher, that sort of thing. Once he got down there, I don't know when he figured things out or what he did once he did figure it out. That part of his statement is the only believable part to me. I don't think it took him long to catch on.

deanws
01-17-2006, 01:42 AM
Oh, I thought I did answer your question. I was just mentioning about the results not being used in court as an aside that Darin could wiggle out of this.
He failed the important Q's due to real guilt, no other reason. IMO
I think Darin caught Darlie right after she stabbed both boys and then they decided together to cover it up. I don't think the murders were his idea. There is too much evidence that Darin and Darlie didn't even know about for them to have set it up for her to take the fall. I don't think they are that smart. They'd have to know that if they cleaned up the blood in the sink and around the sink then Luminol would pick it up. Does that sound like something they would know?
The reason I believe Darin did not help plan the murders is his description of when he first ran downstairs. He describes things as moving in slo-mo, he's confused, he thinks the glass table has fallen and cut Devon, he doesn't even see that Damon is also injured. These are very typical trauma reactions. Voices sound like Charlie Brown's teacher, that sort of thing. Once he got down there, I don't know when he figured things out or what he did once he did figure it out. That part of his statement is the only believable part to me. I don't think it took him long to catch on.Ok...thanks for your take on it. I am sorry to be pestering you so much. :doh: Thanks for taking time to answer my questions.

beesy
01-17-2006, 01:46 AM
Ok...thanks for your take on it. I am sorry to be pestering you so much. :doh: Thanks for taking time to answer my questions. Oh, stop being silly. Ask away, but I'm not always right!

beesy
01-17-2006, 09:13 AM
Those photos I suggested viewing do not show the bodies, ok? There are photos of the bodies in the same Gallery, but you should be ok as long as you only look at the pictures I suggested. The one of Devon's wounds is like a cut-away CT scan, doesn't even look like a body.

beesy
01-17-2006, 09:18 AM
Another thing I read was that Pardo said for Darlie to cut off all correspondence with Darin for 30 days after that failed polygraph incident. I can't believe Pardo would actually think that she was innocent! I think I might have misinterpreted Darin's loyalty to Darlie. It might be out of fear rather than love/lust. I knew he said he wasn't going to trade places with her...but I didn't know they had that jailhouse fight with her saying he was cheating and her saying she was having a lust letter writing thing with Adams. I am glad I read it. Thanks a million Cami!!:woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:
Yep...those losers did it together...just like I always thought. I have one more question guys. Is this the same author that has turned around and said she thinks Darlie is now innocent? If it is...I don't see how she can turn around and say that. She made pretty compelling arguments as to Darlie's guilt!:confused: Use the whoo-hoo man, you deserve it. Once I started really looking into the case, I realized Darin and Darlie are tied together because neither can tell on the other without telling on themselves. So yes, I think it's fear and guilt as well. Maybe those boobs too.

michelle
01-17-2006, 10:57 AM
well if they were in it together most people in those situations would snitch on the other, and darlie has nothing to lose, why hasnt she said anything??

feenix
01-17-2006, 11:36 AM
well if they were in it together most people in those situations would snitch on the other, and darlie has nothing to lose, why hasnt she said anything??Darlie won't say anything because for her to do so will mean she has to admit her own guilt.
She, herself, doesn't feel she has 'nothing to lose' and believes one day she could be released. With that in mind, she is going to keep tight lipped, so as not to jeopardise that possibility.

deanws
01-17-2006, 04:41 PM
well if they were in it together most people in those situations would snitch on the other, and darlie has nothing to lose, why hasnt she said anything??Oh...that little fool thinks she is going to get a new trial. She thinks she is going home...so she can't say anything about Darin without incriminating herself. Until all appeals are exhausted...she will not say a thing.

michelle
01-17-2006, 04:43 PM
Oh...that little fool thinks she is going to get a new trial. She thinks she is going home...so she can't say anything about Darin without incriminating herself. Until all appeals are exhausted...she will not say a thing. that little fool, lol.....well that makes sense i mean she would then lose all chances of getting a new trial....now if she getting one?

deanws
01-17-2006, 04:51 PM
that little fool, lol.....well that makes sense i mean she would then lose all chances of getting a new trial....now if she getting one?Oh...that little fool thinks she is going to get a new trial. She thinks she is going home...so she can't say anything about Darin without incriminating herself. Until all appeals are exhausted...she will not say a thing.:behindbar

michelle
01-17-2006, 04:52 PM
Oh...that little fool thinks she is going to get a new trial. She thinks she is going home...so she can't say anything about Darin without incriminating herself. Until all appeals are exhausted...she will not say a thing.:behindbar well is she getting a new trial?

beesy
01-17-2006, 04:57 PM
well is she getting a new trial? She's on her Federal appeals now. I don't think they'll rule differently than the state appeals, but who knows. I think it'd be a shame to grant her a new trial. The outcome would be the same so it would be a big waste of time, energy and money. But ask Jeana

michelle
01-17-2006, 04:59 PM
i need to read the transcripts of her trial where can i find them?

deanws
01-17-2006, 05:00 PM
She's on her Federal appeals now. I don't think they'll rule differently than the state appeals, but who knows. I think it'd be a shame to grant her a new trial. The outcome would be the same so it would be a big waste of time, energy and money. But ask JeanaI say just put Darlie on the stand....she will tell on herself. She was the best witness for the STATE! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

deanws
01-17-2006, 05:01 PM
i need to read the transcripts of her trial where can i find them?On the justice for darlie site. There is a link somewhere here. I will look for it.

beesy
01-17-2006, 05:03 PM
i need to read the transcripts of her trial where can i find them?
http://www.justicefordarlie.net/transcripts.php
It's alot to wade through. What I do is if I need to know one particular thing, I just do a search for it.

michelle
01-17-2006, 05:03 PM
On the justice for darlie site. There is a link somewhere here. I will look for it. ok thanks.....

Jeana (DP)
01-17-2006, 05:31 PM
well is she getting a new trial?


Nope.

michelle
01-17-2006, 05:32 PM
Nope. oh ok.....

feenix
01-17-2006, 05:52 PM
She's on her Federal appeals now. I don't think they'll rule differently than the state appeals, but who knows. I think it'd be a shame to grant her a new trial. The outcome would be the same so it would be a big waste of time, energy and money. But ask Jeana
Let's assume that the conclusion is definitely going to be execution for Darlie and she decides to come clean, but also reveals that Darin played a part in this somewhere. Would anything then happen to Darin on just her say so?

Jeana (DP)
01-17-2006, 06:31 PM
Let's assume that the conclusion is definitely going to be execution for Darlie and she decides to come clean, but also reveals that Darin played a part in this somewhere. Would anything then happen to Darin on just her say so?


Not unless they had evidence they were sitting on, which I've heard isn't the case.

feenix
01-17-2006, 06:45 PM
Not unless they had evidence they were sitting on, which I've heard isn't the case.So, if she was to reveal that Darin played a part in it somewhere along the line, but there was no actual evidence, he would still be a free man to continue with his life as he chooses. People's attitudes towards him would completely change.
However, I'm not so sure I would want to be in Darins shoes if Darlie told all before her execution. I bet he wouldn't be so eager to appear on the likes of the Leeza show then would he................... or would he???:laugh:

Jeana (DP)
01-17-2006, 06:52 PM
So, if she was to reveal that Darin played a part in it somewhere along the line, but there was no actual evidence, he would still be a free man to continue with his life as he chooses. People's attitudes towards him would completely change.
However, I'm not so sure I would want to be in Darins shoes if Darlie told all before her execution. I bet he wouldn't be so eager to appear on the likes of the Leeza show then would he................... or would he???:laugh:


Of course. She's a convicted child murderer. Her word isn't worth spit. Can you imagine how many people would be put on trial for stuff if all they needed was the word of someone already convicted of the crime?

feenix
01-17-2006, 07:10 PM
Of course. She's a convicted child murderer. Her word isn't worth spit. Can you imagine how many people would be put on trial for stuff if all they needed was the word of someone already convicted of the crime?
What I was trying to say was, if Darlie decided to come clean and reveals that Darin did play a part in this crime, irrespective of the fact she is on DR for murder and has been proven to be a liar, I still don't think her words will be taken that lightly by the public and the media, and whether he was involved or not, from that day forward, I think Darin will be perceived in a different light by many people.

As much as I believe she murdered her children and know she is a liar, I am one of the many people who believe Darin was also involved, therefore I wouldn't see her naming Darin as not being worth spit, but would perceive this as confirmation of mine and many other peoples suspicions.

That comes to the question of him appearing on shows:
Knowing he has been named by his own wife, (the woman he has supported and defended since day one) as the other person involved somewhere in the slayings of his children, would he want to appear on these shows to defend himself.

If he did, this would mean having to declare that Darlie is a liar, which would then make a mockery of the fact that he has appeared on shows telling how Darlie doesn't lie, OR would he want to keep a low profile and stay out of the media this time...................... phew, hope that made sense!!

This is all based on a BIG IF....... if Darlie tells that Darin was involved in the murders, which probably won't happen anyway.

Goody
01-18-2006, 01:27 PM
What I was trying to say was, if Darlie decided to come clean and reveals that Darin did play a part in this crime, irrespective of the fact she is on DR for murder and has been proven to be a liar, I still don't think her words will be taken that lightly by the public and the media, and whether he was involved or not, from that day forward, I think Darin will be perceived in a different light by many people.

As much as I believe she murdered her children and know she is a liar, I am one of the many people who believe Darin was also involved, therefore I wouldn't see her naming Darin as not being worth spit, but would perceive this as confirmation of mine and many other peoples suspicions.

That comes to the question of him appearing on shows:
Knowing he has been named by his own wife, (the woman he has supported and defended since day one) as the other person involved somewhere in the slayings of his children, would he want to appear on these shows to defend himself.

If he did, this would mean having to declare that Darlie is a liar, which would then make a mockery of the fact that he has appeared on shows telling how Darlie doesn't lie, OR would he want to keep a low profile and stay out of the media this time...................... phew, hope that made sense!!

This is all based on a BIG IF....... if Darlie tells that Darin was involved in the murders, which probably won't happen anyway.




I disagree with Jeana in part. Darlie's word alone would not convict anyone at this point, but I do believe if the state could come up with something in the way of physical evidence to dispute his story and maybe some evidence from people who have known him after Darlie's conviction, they could build a believable circumstantial case against him with her being willing to testify against him.

There is someone at CourtTV who says she is dating a friend of Darin's and that this friend now believes Darlie is guilty. Don't know what he thinks of Darin, but I suspect that someone like Darin has needed someone to confide in over the last ten years and may have given himself away without realizing it. I haven't been able to post a reply to her. The board over there is really busy right now because of the Posey trial.

Goody
01-18-2006, 01:31 PM
On the justice for darlie site. There is a link somewhere here. I will look for it.
How can you do that and get an accurate understanding of the evidence? Shoot, most of us had to read the transcripts two or three times. I am really lagging behind in that dept myself, but I have at least read them all at least one time and some of the testimonies more than that. Now I understand why you post the way you do sometimes. No problem, but I think you would be better informed to read the whole thing...and the bond hearings.

Jeana (DP)
01-18-2006, 01:39 PM
I disagree with Jeana in part. Darlie's word alone would not convict anyone at this point, but I do believe if the state could come up with something in the way of physical evidence to dispute his story and maybe some evidence from people who have known him after Darlie's conviction, they could build a believable circumstantial case against him with her being willing to testify against him.



I agree with that. She said on the basis of Darlie's testimony alone. That wouldn't happen. I think they'd love to get their hands on him and I'm sure they do have some stuff that would support any testimony by her. I'm not sure if they have enough though. Plus, witnesses' memories don't get better. It would be a different trial altogether.

Goody
01-18-2006, 01:50 PM
I agree with that. She said on the basis of Darlie's testimony alone. That wouldn't happen. I think they'd love to get their hands on him and I'm sure they do have some stuff that would support any testimony by her. I'm not sure if they have enough though. Plus, witnesses' memories don't get better. It would be a different trial altogether.
I agree with that.

cami
01-18-2006, 03:17 PM
Yeah, I did. I'm sure he does stay with Darin some, but she has legal custody.

Darin has Drake with him. His mother has legal custody but he spends most of his time with Darin.

deanws
01-18-2006, 11:20 PM
How can you do that and get an accurate understanding of the evidence? Shoot, most of us had to read the transcripts two or three times. I am really lagging behind in that dept myself, but I have at least read them all at least one time and some of the testimonies more than that. Now I understand why you post the way you do sometimes. No problem, but I think you would be better informed to read the whole thing...and the bond hearings. Goody....I have been reading the transcripts. The problem is....that the "facts" differ from one witness to another. I made this thread to talk about the books vs the testimonies. I am in no way an expert on this case. I have read many MANY things on the web about this case. I followed it when it was going on. The problem is....that everyone has a different "opinion" of the "facts". I am just trying to find a middle ground...and wanting to know which "account" to believe.:waitasec: If I say something wrong...for god's sake straighten me out. That is why I am here.:o

deanws
01-18-2006, 11:25 PM
Those photos I suggested viewing do not show the bodies, ok? There are photos of the bodies in the same Gallery, but you should be ok as long as you only look at the pictures I suggested. The one of Devon's wounds is like a cut-away CT scan, doesn't even look like a body.I saw the outline of the knife you were talking about. There was also a picture I found online that was in black and white...and it was a good one too. Yep....I now see what you were trying to tell me a few days ago! :doh: I am a little slow on the up take sometimes. LOL... It might have been the stroke I had two years ago. :confused: Anyway..thanks for finding it for me so that I didn't have to go through some of the stuff that makes me have nightmares!:eek:

feenix
01-19-2006, 07:05 AM
There is someone at CourtTV who says she is dating a friend of Darin's and that this friend now believes Darlie is guilty. Don't know what he thinks of Darin, but I suspect that someone like Darin has needed someone to confide in over the last ten years and may have given himself away without realizing it. I haven't been able to post a reply to her. The board over there is really busy right now because of the Posey trial. So Darin may have discussed it with his friend, I wonder to what extent?
I think he must get asked questions about this, especially with it still being a constant ongoing interest to a lot of people.

I suppose there's the trust issue, does he have anyone he can completely trust other than his family, probably not.
I'm assuming he has a girlfriend or at least has had one over the last 10 years and wonder if he has ever discussed with them what his thoughts on Darlie are, or as you say, given himself away without realising it............... I think I'm just nosey Goody!!:D


Do you think this girlfriend would be interested in coming over to WS to chat?

Goody
01-19-2006, 09:17 AM
Goody....I have been reading the transcripts. The problem is....that the "facts" differ from one witness to another. I made this thread to talk about the books vs the testimonies. I am in no way an expert on this case. I have read many MANY things on the web about this case. I followed it when it was going on. The problem is....that everyone has a different "opinion" of the "facts". I am just trying to find a middle ground...and wanting to know which "account" to believe.:waitasec: If I say something wrong...for god's sake straighten me out. That is why I am here.:o
I am sorry,danielle (is that right?). I was posting that to beesy or thought I was. For some reason I messed it up.

This is what I was replying to. http://www.justicefordarlie.net/transcripts.php
It's alot to wade through. What I do is if I need to know one particular thing, I just do a search for it.

I didn't think it was a good way to understand the evidence from the trial transcripts. Mostly because different witnesses say different things. Sometimes you do have to pick and choose which version seems more logical. The whole trial concept is based on what is reasonable to believe, not so much on who is telling the whole truth and who isn't. Sometimes the facts do get lost in the shuffle, but most of the time I think you can weigh which fact is more likely to have occurred based on your own life experiences. Like when Darlie told the jury that she forgot to tell Mercedes she was dreaming when she saw the man standing over her/fighting with her/stabbing her (whichever it was), and that is why Mercedes might assume that it was a real memory as opposed to a dream, I found it totally unreasonable to believe. Who tells someone about a dream and doesn't start it with "I had a dream last night...."? But some people do believe her....go figure. If one didn't read all the transcripts and just that testimony alone, they might not realize how many different stories people claimed she told about how she was attacked.

Personally, I think the books are good and I am glad they are out there because they do provide some information you can't find in the transcripts , but the authors do make mistakes. Sometimes big ones, like Barbara Davis' on the knife going all the way thru Devon's body and sticking in the floor. Anyway, that is something to consider. The authors do try to tell the truth, I think, but they aren't under oath. They also might be pushed a little by publishers to "sensationalize" a bit. But my experience with true crime is that no one EVER gets it all right, not even the appellate courts when they hand down an opinion. Somewhere in the mix there will be a fact, usually some background info, that has slipped into the paperwork in error and is never corrected. I guess it is because so many people are involved.

beesy
01-19-2006, 10:05 AM
I didn't mean to suggest I have never read the transcripts. I have. She said she was having trouble with it all so I thought I pass along to her what I do now. Which is to do a search for something specific, because I don't think it's all still in my brain. But, if Goody thinks they should all be read, then that's what you should do.

Goody
01-19-2006, 10:12 AM
I didn't mean to suggest I have never read the transcripts. I have. She said she was having trouble with it all so I thought I pass along to her what I do now. Which is to do a search for something specific, because I don't think it's all still in my brain. But, if Goody thinks they should all be read, then that's what you should do.
Goody thinks if you are going to use the transcripts as a source of information to base an opinion on, you should read as much of the information on the topic as you can. At trials, people are under oath so it is the best source. But using the transcripts in parts and sections might be misleading. I guess it is really up to the individual how much time they want to devote to it. I just wanted to warn anyone doing that there are pitfalls in legal documents when you don't read them in their entirety, but I understand that it can also be a boring, cumbersome project to read all the material and not something everyone wants to do. There are plenty of knowledgable people here to help shake out the misconceptions.

deanws
01-19-2006, 04:11 PM
Another place besides the two books that said the knife went all the way through Devon's body is the Arrest warrant. There is a copy of the arrest warrant in Springer's book starting on page 126-134. The specific information on the exit wound is on page 132(bottom paragraph)-133. So...I assume this is true...or at least the LE believe it to be true. I want to know if this is factual or not. I believe it is important because it would show extreme rage. This is a sign that a murder is personal according to the psychological make up of murderers.:waitasec:

Goody
01-19-2006, 08:53 PM
Another place besides the two books that said the knife went all the way through Devon's body is the Arrest warrant. There is a copy of the arrest warrant in Springer's book starting on page 126-134. The specific information on the exit wound is on page 132(bottom paragraph)-133. So...I assume this is true...or at least the LE believe it to be true. I want to know if this is factual or not. I believe it is important because it would show extreme rage. This is a sign that a murder is personal according to the psychological make up of murderers.:waitasec:
Apparently they found what they thought was a nick in the flooring under the carpet when they cut out the carpet where Devon was laying. I think that is where the rumor started. It is one of those errors that once they find their way into the record take on a life of their own and never get corrected. The ME testified that Devon had no wounds that went all the way thru his body. As I recall, she was specific about that so my money is on her.

beesy
01-19-2006, 09:48 PM
Apparently they found what they thought was a nick in the flooring under the carpet when they cut out the carpet where Devon was laying. I think that is where the rumor started. It is one of those errors that once they find their way into the record take on a life of their own and never get corrected. The ME testified that Devon had no wounds that went all the way thru his body. As I recall, she was specific about that so my money is on her. and on the pictures

Goody
01-19-2006, 10:00 PM
and on the pictures
Are the pictures of Devon's back?

deanws
01-19-2006, 10:05 PM
Apparently they found what they thought was a nick in the flooring under the carpet when they cut out the carpet where Devon was laying. I think that is where the rumor started. It is one of those errors that once they find their way into the record take on a life of their own and never get corrected. The ME testified that Devon had no wounds that went all the way thru his body. As I recall, she was specific about that so my money is on her. She is the one who said it. Dr Janice Townsend-Parchman.

deanws
01-19-2006, 10:17 PM
Are the pictures of Devon's back?Read the autopsy reports. It is under wound one. It say it goes from left to the right and penetrates into the right posterior chest approximately 1/16 inch. So, that is probably why we can't see the wound coming through the back area in the pictures. A 1/16 is a tiny tiny little split. So, the tip went through the body barely...which of course means that the knife could not have nicked the cement under the carpet. Never the less, it did go though him.

beesy
01-20-2006, 12:20 AM
Are the pictures of Devon's back? There is a cut-away scan of his injuries, the answer to that would be yes.

Mary456
01-20-2006, 02:47 AM
Read the autopsy reports. It is under wound one. It say it goes from left to the right and penetrates into the right posterior chest approximately 1/16 inch. So, that is probably why we can't see the wound coming through the back area in the pictures. A 1/16 is a tiny tiny little split. So, the tip went through the body barely...which of course means that the knife could not have nicked the cement under the carpet. Never the less, it did go though him.

When it says "1/16 inch into the posterior chest", it means the back part of the body, the posterior. The depth of the wound was actually 5 inches, so it penetrated almost 5 inches into the anterior, and 1/16 inch into the posterior (Hope this makes sense!)

Anyway, the wound didn't exit his back and nick the floor. Page 298 in MTJD clearly shows Devon's back, and there are no exit wounds. As Goody said, the nick in the floor was put there when the house was built, and someone at the scene misinterpreted it when the carpet was removed. Very much like Dr. Lee misinterpreted an impression in the concrete in the O.J. Simpson case. It happens and, unfortunately, becomes an urban legend.

deanws
01-20-2006, 05:41 PM
When it says "1/16 inch into the posterior chest", it means the back part of the body, the posterior. The depth of the wound was actually 5 inches, so it penetrated almost 5 inches into the anterior, and 1/16 inch into the posterior (Hope this makes sense!)

Anyway, the wound didn't exit his back and nick the floor. Page 298 in MTJD clearly shows Devon's back, and there are no exit wounds. As Goody said, the nick in the floor was put there when the house was built, and someone at the scene misinterpreted it when the carpet was removed. Very much like Dr. Lee misinterpreted an impression in the concrete in the O.J. Simpson case. It happens and, unfortunately, becomes an urban legend.and penetrates into the right posterior chest approximately 1/16 inch. Read the autopsy. Wound one....it says it goes in from the left side of the chest....and penetrates...meaning it goes through... I am well aware what the meaning of the word posterior means. The point went through the back side 1/16th of an inch. That is a very very small point. Read my original post again. You will see that I did say that it would not have caused the nick on the floor under the carpet.

deanws
01-20-2006, 07:05 PM
Anyway, the wound didn't exit his back and nick the floor. Page 298 in MTJD clearly shows Devon's back, and there are no exit wounds. As Goody said, the nick in the floor was put there when the house was built, and someone at the scene misinterpreted it when the carpet was removed. Very much like Dr. Lee misinterpreted an impression in the concrete in the O.J. Simpson case. It happens and, unfortunately, becomes an urban legend.What MTJD is trying to do is challenge the ME's autopsy. I see the picture you are referring to. Do you know how small 1/16th of an inch is? The picture is not even a close up of his back. There would be no way to see it in the picture they presented. No one said it was a gaping wound. ( - ) See inside the ()? The little - is the size of 1/16th of an inch.

Mary456
01-20-2006, 11:39 PM
and penetrates into the right posterior chest approximately 1/16 inch. Read the autopsy. Wound one....it says it goes in from the left side of the chest....and penetrates...meaning it goes through... I am well aware what the meaning of the word posterior means. The point went through the back side 1/16th of an inch. That is a very very small point. Read my original post again. You will see that I did say that it would not have caused the nick on the floor under the carpet.

I'm sorry, Pam. When you said, "So, the tip went through the body barely", I thought you meant that it only penetrated Devon's skin 1/16 of an inch. My mistake.

And yes, I was agreeing with you that the knife didn't cause the nick in the floor. Sometimes I don't express myself real well in writing. I apologize for any misunderstanding.

deanws
01-21-2006, 12:00 AM
I'm sorry, Pam. When you said, "So, the tip went through the body barely", I thought you meant that it only penetrated Devon's skin 1/16 of an inch. My mistake.

And yes, I was agreeing with you that the knife didn't cause the nick in the floor. Sometimes I don't express myself real well in writing. I apologize for any misunderstanding.I was looking at that wound because I believe it shows extreme rage, which is often associated with a crime that is personal. Can you imagine the wack that she had to take for the knife to go that far into his little body? It also nicked the rib bones as it tore through him. It really makes me wonder where all that rage came from..and how a mother could actually do such a thing to their child. Anyway, that is why I was researching that wound.

Goody
01-21-2006, 07:13 AM
She is the one who said it. Dr Janice Townsend-Parchman.
She did the autopsy on Damon, not Devon. However, I did find this. Is this what you are referring to?

22 Q. Okay. Are we now looking at stab wound
23 number 1?
24 A. Yes. It's gone through the 8th rib.
25 And you can see that it goes into the left lung to a depth
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
121
1 of one and three quarter inches.
2 And stab wound number 2 goes through
3 the right 8th rib. All the way through the right lung and
4 actually penetrated the anterior chest wall, not all the
5 way through.
6 Q. Is this area here the anterior chest
7 wall?
8 A. Yes. The anterior chest wall, the
9 inside.
10 Q. Okay.
11 A. Stab wound number 3 goes through the
12 right 8th intercostal space, the muscle between the right
13 8th and 9th ribs and goes into the right lung, as you can
14 see there.
15 Q. Okay.
16 A. And stab wound number 4 is in the right
17 11th intercostal musculature between the right 11th and
18 12th ribs. And it goes through the right lung diaphragm
19 and into the right lobe of the liver.
20 Q. Okay. Thank you, Doctor.
21
22 (Whereupon, the witness
23 resumed the witness
24 stand, and the
25 proceedings were resumed
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
122

1 on the record, as
2 follows:)
3
4 BY MR. GREG DAVIS:
5 Q. Doctor, let me just ask you, what is
6 your opinion concerning the cause of death of Damon
7 Routier?
8 A. Sharp force injuries to the back.

deanws
01-21-2006, 03:44 PM
She did the autopsy on Damon, not Devon. However, I did find this. Is this what you are referring to?

22 Q. Okay. Are we now looking at stab wound
23 number 1?
24 A. Yes. It's gone through the 8th rib.
25 And you can see that it goes into the left lung to a depth
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
121
1 of one and three quarter inches.
2 And stab wound number 2 goes through
3 the right 8th rib. All the way through the right lung and
4 actually penetrated the anterior chest wall, not all the
5 way through.
6 Q. Is this area here the anterior chest
7 wall?
8 A. Yes. The anterior chest wall, the
9 inside.
10 Q. Okay.
11 A. Stab wound number 3 goes through the
12 right 8th intercostal space, the muscle between the right
13 8th and 9th ribs and goes into the right lung, as you can
14 see there.
15 Q. Okay.
16 A. And stab wound number 4 is in the right
17 11th intercostal musculature between the right 11th and
18 12th ribs. And it goes through the right lung diaphragm
19 and into the right lobe of the liver.
20 Q. Okay. Thank you, Doctor.
21
22 (Whereupon, the witness
23 resumed the witness
24 stand, and the
25 proceedings were resumed
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
122

1 on the record, as
2 follows:)
3
4 BY MR. GREG DAVIS:
5 Q. Doctor, let me just ask you, what is
6 your opinion concerning the cause of death of Damon
7 Routier?
8 A. Sharp force injuries to the back.There was an autopsy on both children. It did go through Devon. Read the autopsy. Wound one.

Goody
01-21-2006, 07:54 PM
There was an autopsy on both children. It did go through Devon. Read the autopsy. Wound one.
Sorry, but all I could find in Dr Joni McClain's testimony about Devon is that the number one wound was 5 inches deep. The other reference we have already posted here is on Damon. It sounds to me like if it happened at all, it had to be to Damon, not Devon.

deanws
01-21-2006, 10:40 PM
Sorry, but all I could find in Dr Joni McClain's testimony about Devon is that the number one wound was 5 inches deep. The other reference we have already posted here is on Damon. It sounds to me like if it happened at all, it had to be to Damon, not Devon. It was Devon. I am not talking about the transcript. I am talking about the official autopsy. Read the official autopsy. I copied that part of the autopsy in my above posts relating to the fact that the knife went through the body and came out the other side....1/16th of an inch. It was the point of the knife. As I said before, it couldn't have caused the nick under the carpet because the tip barely came out the posterior chest wall. Posterior means the back side of the chest. You can't see it in the photos because 1/16th of an inch is about this - big.

and penetrates into the right posterior chest approximately 1/16 inch. Read the autopsy. Wound one....it says it goes in from the left side of the chest....and penetrates...meaning it goes through... The point went through the back side 1/16th of an inch.

beesy
01-22-2006, 12:06 AM
It was Devon. I am not talking about the transcript. I am talking about the official autopsy. Read the official autopsy. I copied that part of the autopsy in my above posts relating to the fact that the knife went through the body and came out the other side....1/16th of an inch. It was the point of the knife. As I said before, it couldn't have caused the nick under the carpet because the tip barely came out the posterior chest wall. Posterior means the back side of the chest. You can't see it in the photos because 1/16th of an inch is about this - big.

and penetrates into the right posterior chest approximately 1/16 inch. Read the autopsy. Wound one....it says it goes in from the left side of the chest....and penetrates...meaning it goes through... The point went through the back side 1/16th of an inch. You're right. I've read the autopsy reports many times. I was protesting the nick in the subflooring rumor, not the depth of the wound. You done good, love.

deanws
01-22-2006, 12:17 AM
You're right. I've read the autopsy reports many times. I was protesting the nick in the subflooring rumor, not the depth of the wound. You done good, love.:woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: I finally did something right. I am about 50 pages into MTJD now. OMgosh....how stupid was Chris? The only thing he got right so far was that there wasn't mulch under the window. The pictures are good though. :D

beesy
01-22-2006, 01:12 AM
:woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: I finally did something right. I am about 50 pages into MTJD now. OMgosh....how stupid was Chris? The only thing he got right so far was that there wasn't mulch under the window. The pictures are good though. :D Well, my promise lasted a long time, huh? No there wasn't any mulch directly under the window, but the quickest, easiest way for the intruder to have escaped would be to run through the mulch which was beside the window. In other words, the intruder would not have jumped out the window and gone straight, but run to the side towards freedom. Cron is still right on that one, so let's all taunt Chris! http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_15_3.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZZ)

deanws
01-22-2006, 09:47 PM
Well, my promise lasted a long time, huh? No there wasn't any mulch directly under the window, but the quickest, easiest way for the intruder to have escaped would be to run through the mulch which was beside the window. In other words, the intruder would not have jumped out the window and gone straight, but run to the side towards freedom. Cron is still right on that one, so let's all taunt Chris! http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_15_3.gif Well, if I was a murderer, I would have gone out the front door. But, since we all know there was not an intruder, I guess it doesn't matter! LOL!!!:laugh:

Goody
01-23-2006, 10:43 AM
It was Devon. I am not talking about the transcript. I am talking about the official autopsy. Read the official autopsy. I copied that part of the autopsy in my above posts relating to the fact that the knife went through the body and came out the other side....1/16th of an inch. It was the point of the knife. As I said before, it couldn't have caused the nick under the carpet because the tip barely came out the posterior chest wall. Posterior means the back side of the chest. You can't see it in the photos because 1/16th of an inch is about this - big.

and penetrates into the right posterior chest approximately 1/16 inch. Read the autopsy. Wound one....it says it goes in from the left side of the chest....and penetrates...meaning it goes through... The point went through the back side 1/16th of an inch.
Okay, gotcha, but I wasn't saying it did nick the concrete, only that they found a nick in the concrete and initially thought that is what caused it. In those early days is probably where the confusion came from. Now that you have pointed out the autopsy report reference, it gives even more credance to the likelihood that an incorrect assumption, probably initially by LE and/or the family, was the original source of the incorrect information. That was a nice little bit of detecting, girls. :clap:

Goody
01-23-2006, 10:50 AM
Well, if I was a murderer, I would have gone out the front door. But, since we all know there was not an intruder, I guess it doesn't matter! LOL!!!:laugh:
Maybe anal retentive, OCD to the max Monk would have to take the same route back to his car, no matter how many easier, quicker routes were at his disposal, but he is the only one on the planet!!!

deanws
01-23-2006, 08:23 PM
Maybe anal retentive, OCD to the max Monk would have to take the same route back to his car, no matter how many easier, quicker routes were at his disposal, but he is the only one on the planet!!! Monk is a hoot! :laugh:

deanws
01-23-2006, 08:28 PM
Okay, gotcha, but I wasn't saying it did nick the concrete, only that they found a nick in the concrete and initially thought that is what caused it. In those early days is probably where the confusion came from. Now that you have pointed out the autopsy report reference, it gives even more credance to the likelihood that an incorrect assumption, probably initially by LE and/or the family, was the original source of the incorrect information. That was a nice little bit of detecting, girls. :clap: But, my point of digging around to find out whether she stabbed him that deep was to see if the extreme rage factor was there. I mean, she was pretty pissed about something to stab him that freaking deep. I just can't imagine the whole situation!:( Most LE feel that a crime with that kind of rage is usually personal. So, another factor that points to the parents. :(

Goody
01-23-2006, 08:31 PM
Monk is a hoot! :laugh:
My POSSLQ watches Monk and I do occassionally. He is a nut. I love his latest promo piece where he needs to retrieve three coins out of a fountain because it is more than he should've thrown in. The captain's wife is with him and she can't believe he is for real. he says it "will haunt him." LOL!

Goody
01-23-2006, 08:38 PM
But, my point of digging around to find out whether she stabbed him that deep was to see if the extreme rage factor was there. I mean, she was pretty pissed about something to stab him that freaking deep. I just can't imagine the whole situation!:( Most LE feel that a crime with that kind of rage is usually personal. So, another factor that points to the parents. :(
The rage factor is hard to determine. I agree that if it exists it would definitely point to the parents, but I can't make up my mind if I think the attack was methodical and well targeted or some kind of anger/rage. The problem I have with rage is that the kids were stabbed only enough to kill them. I would expect someone out of control to stab many, many times, like a dozen or more.

As for why she stabbed Devon so deep, as I recall the blade penetrated on an angle so part if it might have been the position both of them were in. Also, it appears he was fighting back, at least briefly and that might have angered her enough to plunge harder with the next stab.

I try not to visualize the attack in too much detail for the same reason you mention. It is difficult to imagine and makes me shudder if I even get close, so no thank you on that one. I will let someone else play the Jordan Cavanaugh game.

deanws
01-23-2006, 08:43 PM
The rage factor is hard to determine. I agree that if it exists it would definitely point to the parents, but I can't make up my mind if I think the attack was methodical and well targeted or some kind of anger/rage. The problem I have with rage is that the kids were stabbed only enough to kill them. I would expect someone out of control to stab many, many times, like a dozen or more.

As for why she stabbed Devon so deep, as I recall the blade penetrated on an angle so part if it might have been the position both of them were in. Also, it appears he was fighting back, at least briefly and that might have angered her enough to plunge harder with the next stab.

I try not to visualize the attack in too much detail for the same reason you mention. It is difficult to imagine and makes me shudder if I even get close, so no thank you on that one. I will let someone else play the Jordan Cavanaugh game. The more I dig into this case...the more I say...WTH!?!!?:doh:

justice2
01-23-2006, 10:31 PM
But, my point of digging around to find out whether she stabbed him that deep was to see if the extreme rage factor was there. I mean, she was pretty pissed about something to stab him that freaking deep. I just can't imagine the whole situation!:( Most LE feel that a crime with that kind of rage is usually personal. So, another factor that points to the parents. :(
I think the stabbings were very methodical, like by someone who knew what they were doing, i.e. Darin who has some medical training. Only enough to kill as previsously stated. If rage you would have seen more, and IMO, varied stabbing and cuts.

At first I thought Darlie wouldn't have had the strength (upper body strenghth usually weak in women) to make the deep wounds going through the rib cages, but the prosecutor repeatedly talked about how the rib cages on the young boys would have been fairly pliable or soft (or something to that effect). So I still could go with either one doing it.

But methodical, not rage.

Goody
01-23-2006, 10:49 PM
I think the stabbings were very methodical, like by someone who knew what they were doing, i.e. Darin who has some medical training. Only enough to kill as previsously stated. If rage you would have seen more, and IMO, varied stabbing and cuts.

At first I thought Darlie wouldn't have had the strength (upper body strenghth usually weak in women) to make the deep wounds going through the rib cages, but the prosecutor repeatedly talked about how the rib cages on the young boys would have been fairly pliable or soft (or something to that effect). So I still could go with either one doing it.

But methodical, not rage.
You are correct. Rib cartlege takes years to harden. The knife went right through them on both boys. Just the difference in weight should have been sufficient for her to have been capable of doing that.

As for which one knew the human body well enough to know where to stab, on a small child anywhere in the upper torso is likely to hit a major organ so I don't think any special knowledge would be any more beneficial. I do agree that the wounds seem methodical. I have aleays leaned in that direction. I just can't rule out anger as the trigger.