Mini Research Project-Women Meeting Men Through the Internet

[Kelly]

I know this isn't quite on topic, but a woman wrote to me today and I need to find someone who could find some websites/new stories applicable to her issue as I am strapped for time.

Here is what she wrote:

"Forgive me for writing, I do not have a missing person in my life. However, I'm trying to prevent it. My 28 yr.old daughter has been talking with men on the internet and doesn't hesitate to meet them is unsafe areas for the first time. She also has a 5 yr. old daughter. Over the last few months she has been speaking to a man in Morocco and is planning to go there in May with her daughter. She has never met him. Her plan is to stay for an extended period of time and if it works out to get married. I am scared to death that she will follow through on this. Do you have any information on internet predators and how they scam people that I could show her? Preferably the ones that talk about love, marriage and so on. Or if you have anything on international abductions. I would truly appreciate anything you can give me."

Most of the info I have is geared to teens/children. Can someone find some scary true stories about adults going to meet people from the Internet, especially those who live in a foreign country? Website links with warnings about adults doing this are welcome, too.

Thanks in advance!

Kelly

[altruist1000]

Hope this link still works. It didn't happen from the internet but it did happen from desperation of a sweet innocent young woman who fell prey to a predator. It was a plan & she turned out to be the victim. Just horrible. I wish you luck in attempting to shake some common sense into your daughter.

I have seen some talk shows about these types as well, they ruin women financially & emotionally, pedaphiles seek out women with young children.


Http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/issues/1994-12-08/news/feature.html
WHEN UNDERWRITERS BECOME UNDERTAKERS DESPITE GLARING WARNING SIGNS, THE INSURERS APPROVED THE HEFTY LIFE-INSURANCE POLICY-- AND GAVE TWO CON MEN A REASON TO KILL BY PAUL RUBIN

Cindy met 25-year-old German immigrant Michael Apelt at Bobby McGee's restaurant in Mesa. On October 28, 1988, she eloped to Las Vegas with the lanky, blond stranger. She had known him for three weeks.
Ten days later, Cindy and her new husband walked into a Phoenix insurance agency.

More at link above.

On December 22, 1988, Ramsey hand-delivered the $100,000 Surety policy to the Apelts in Mesa. He also told them the larger Banner policy was a go, and he took a check from Cindy for the first month's premium.
Early the next evening, Michael and Cindy Apelt drove to a remote site east of Apache Junction. Michael's brother, Rudi, and Michael's ex-lover, a German woman named Anke Dorn, trailed in another car.
Cindy died there, at the foot of the Superstition Mountains, her lifeblood seeping into the desert after a stabbing that left her almost decapitated.
She had been married seven weeks.

The above sadly is a true story.

[Kelly]

That is awful but these things happen. Thank you for the link. Please, if anyone has others, please post them.

This is not my daughter. This woman wrote me, asking for help in this regard for her daughter. I posted what she wrote to me to help others understand the type of information we are looking for.

Thanks again!

Kelly

[guenevere]

http://www.wildxangel.com/

Once in, on the left side scroll down to "stories and letters".

The stories called "The Worst of the Worst" is a real eye opener.

[KatherineQ]

This internet behavior, in my opinion, is only a symptom of this 28 year old woman's difficulties, and not the cause of them. If she didn't have the internet, she would be behaving stupidly in other ways. Through newspaper personals, barhopping, etc.

The internet is only a means to the end, not the problem in itself.

I think she needs a copy of "Ten Stupid things Women Do To Mess Up Their Lives", and the grandmother needs to threaten to call CPS if that mother doesn't quit this behavior. Eventually, she'll drag someone in who will abuse her child, and as it is, she's real easy pickings right now with that mother.

[Trino]

The consideration should be the child. I think I would refer this to someone - even child protection, so, at least, someone in a safe position is aware of the situation.

[WindChime]

This is my own personal opinion. This 28 year old is not thinking of her own child nor her safety why in world would this woman even chance taking her child to another country to meet a stranger. In my opinion this is a unfit mom. I met my hubby online, he's a wonderful man but all stories don't end like mine. But first and for most I didn't have a child to worry about. And my hubby gave me his SS# so that a friend could do a nation wide criminal background check on him. This mother needs to tell her 28 year old daughter that there is no way in heck she is taking her grandchild out of this country to meet a stranger. I think this 28 year old needs to watch the movie "Not Without My Daughter"

[Kelly]

The mother of the 28 year old is going to call and report this to Child Services if she persists in making plans for this trip.

Does any one have any other links of true stories where this went bad as a way to disuade the daughter?

Thanks.

Kelly

[SewingDeb]

I don't have a link, but several years ago a woman met a man online and went to visit him. When she didn't return, the family called the police. After a search, her body was found buried near his home. This was in NC and I can't remember the names but will try to do a search.

[txsvicki]

I wonder why a man in Morocco can't get a woman where he's at and has to get on the internet and meet some woman with a child. That alone should be a big red flag. Is he ready to support them, and can this woman get any sort of job over there? Lots of men who get online are just mentally ill losers who are sexually perverted and too out of touch to realize that women are probably nicer online than in real life. If people try to meet someone online, I think it should be people who are local so that they can actually start dating. If I were the grandma, I'd be contacting the child's daddy, other grandparents, legal aid, child welfare, etc.

[mysteriew]

I don't remember names. But there was the guy who met the woman online, she and her baby went to visit him, she was found later in a barrel and her baby had been given to someone- one of his relatives I think. He was a serial killer.
And the teen who was lured to I think Greece or Italy- he arranged for someone to meet her in USA, help her with getting false identity papers and dying her hair. When she met him, he took her prisoner. Mom finally found her, and had to go get her. Seems like he was keeping her prisoner in an office building, maybe? I think I saw that one on dateline, AMW or 48 hrs, or a show like those.
Anyone else remember those? Can you think of the names?
Edited to add: here is the barrel/baby one:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/781507.stm

http://www.courttv.com/trials/robinson/

I can't find the one about the teen, but here is another one.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/3805749.stm

[SewingDeb]

While searching for a link to the news article I mentioned, I found this one:
http://1010wins.com/topstories/local_story_328172604.html

[SewingDeb]

http://www.wdbj7.com/Global/story.asp?S=4385829

Lynchburg mom murdered after Internet lure

[dannyodie]

if I were this girls mom, I would ask her to have the man come over here, why does she have to spend lots of her money to go off to meet him, if he doesn't want to come to the us, then I would think that he ain't worth meeting, preditors are in ever walk of life and in every country. I would see if there was a way to have a back ground search on him to be on the safe side. chances are, if her daughter is bound and determined to do this, she will anyway against everyone telling her not to. I sure hope that she leaves her child here in this country, she really shouldn't take the child and endanger her. someone that has to use the internet to find a date and so on must not have much social interaction with people, the internet is not where I would look for someone to spend my life with, I found my love in church, and still enjoying it 25yrs later.

[Kelly]

Thanks for all of the great links and info. I will send this to her later this evening, so if anyone finds other links, please feel free to post. You never know who might be reading this that could be helped by it, too.

[mysteriew]

Kelly, the girl is going to use the excuse that "but not this guy, he isn't like that". Probably, the best that the mother can do is to say, ok this is your first meeting with this guy. I can't stop you from going. But why don't you leave the baby with me, so you will have time to spend alone with him, and then if it all works out and you want to stay, then I will bring the baby over. I always wanted to travel a bit anyway, this will give me the reason to. Then as soon as Mom is out of the country, file abandonment charges and get custody.
And as someone else mentioned, I would also contact the Dad or his family. The Dad could file for custody, or the grandparents could file for visitation privelidges right now. That might delay things.

[petra]

Hi Kelly-- I know a bit about North African culture and Morocco in particular.

Major Warning--due to different culture and religious beliefs, it is a patriarcal society. Male dominated...woman and children are property of male's family.

1. will marry to get citizenship

2. male's family (married or just together) have legal rights over children even if not biological their own.

I have kept this short..not to give too much info here. But major international issues involved here. Most end in heart breaking stories. You know of my background and work with agencies such as REDD BARN- save the children over here.

Please have her pm me for more info. This woman should NOT go there by herself or with child. Suggestion of him coming to US much better. But still many big red flags.

[Kelly]

They say "love is blind" and she will probably not buy into any number of horror stories presented. We can only try.

I will most likely just send the mom this link and let her read it and the links presented.

I forgot until last night, that one of our cases involved a meeting via the Internet. The man rammed a gag down her throat and then wrapped her head in duct tape so she suffocated. Her body was placed in a large tool box and thrown in the river. They said that her death was prolonged and horrible.

I am talking about Lori Leonard. May she rest in peace.

http://www.tunedinweb.com/lorileonard/index.shtml

[Kelly]

Great points, Petra. I was wondering the same thing about male dominance and citizenship. I pray this girl comes to her senses.

[petra]

http://www.unhchr.ch/tbs/doc.nsf/(Symbol)/CRC.C.28.Add.1.En?Opendocument

UN document from 1995---NEVER ADOPTED---translated fom french

Rights of children, inter-state (international) custodial issues--

This is open document proposal, discusses custodial issues, name of child is father's etc.

A must read for mom

[petra]

Yes, I pray so too. Judicial system is based on Islamic law.

She really needs to know what she is in for. Morocco is a beautiful, exotic and fascinating country. If she is in for an adventure, she should go by herself for two weeks. And have this possible future husband show her everything...not just woo her. She neeeds to do some serious homework. It is a life changing experievce. English is spoken, but mostly arabic and french.

No love for westerners, esp Americans. She should read and study Islam culture and religion. Since she is on computer, she needs to be very aware of the country--poverty, lack of education, work status, etc.

[petra]

They say "love is blind" and she will probably not buy into any number of horror stories presented. We can only try.

I will most likely just send the mom this link and let her read it and the links presented.

I forgot until last night, that one of our cases involved a meeting via the Internet. The man rammed a gag down her throat and then wrapped her head in duct tape so she suffocated. Her body was placed in a large tool box and thrown in the river. They said that her death was prolonged and horrible.

I am talking about Lori Leonard. May she rest in peace.

http://www.tunedinweb.com/lorileonard/index.shtml
Oh Kelly---What a tragedy. And that was right there in NY. That poem is so beautiful. RIP Lori

[WindChime]

Hi Kelly my heart and prayers continue to go out to you and your family . There was a huge case but I can't recall his name this happend in MO. I'm pretty sure and other members might remember his name I know there is many news articals on him because it was a big case. The guy was married and he would talk woman into coming and visiting him and I know one of the women was from Indiana he murdered her and buried her way out on his property if anyone can remember his name I know there are many news and trial articals on this guy.

[gingersnap]

Not exactly the same thing, but I remember reading a book about a woman named Sharee Miller who met her lover on the internet and then convinced him to murder her husband. Just goes to show you that anyone can have a double personality!!



http://www.courttv.com/trials/taped/miller/background.html

[Kelly]

I have kept this short..not to give too much info here. But major international issues involved here. Most end in heart breaking stories. You know of my background and work with agencies such as REDD BARN- save the children over here.

Please have her pm me for more info. This woman should NOT go there by herself or with child. Suggestion of him coming to US much better. But still many big red flags.

The mom is very grateful to everyone for this information. She has read it all over and printed it out, although it does not sound as if it phased the daughter yet, she will still keep working on her and will also call CPS.

She is not a registered user, and I suspect has no experience in Internet forums. She really wants to talk to you, Petra, about your knowledge of this. She would like to email you if you are comfortable with that. I told her that will be up to you. Email me and let me know.

Kelly

[Paradise]

This is kinda off topic but I met my fiancee through the internet. I think the mistake these people make is trusting the person too fast. I waited a long, long, long time until I went to his house, and I met all of his friends and did stuff with him in public. He probably thought I was a nutjob but I wanted to be safe.

[bertajo]

To be frank, I don’t think it’s worth our time to attempt to inform this person about the potential risk involved in this situation, as it does not appear as though she is making a logical decision for herself and her child. I suspect that we could flood her with scary stories, and she would still refuse to comprehend the potential risks.

I suggest that you learn what her reasoning is for considering this option. Is she looking to leave her responsibilities in the US, or is she looking forward to a “new” life in a foreign country? Is she thinking marriage will provide some type of stability? Is she motivated by financial matters? How will she benefit? If you can learn what the appeal is for her, you may have an chance to negotiate a different outcome.

Personally, I don’t recommend getting social services involved in this matter based on the information provided here. However, I might consider contacting the biological father if he has custodial rights.

[wondering22]

Kelly, I just can't believe how naive so many people are, it's just mind boggling.





http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/009338.php

The phenomenon of sham marriages by jihadists, and real marriages accomplished by seductions of unwitting non-Muslim Western women, has been insufficiently investigated, although


=======>>>> horror stories abound.


From the Minneapolis Star-Tribune, with thanks to Jeffrey Imm:

A Minneapolis man accused of lying to authorities in a terrorism investigation is facing three new charges that he paid a U.S. citizen to marry him, then used a green card from that fraudulent marriage to try to get jobs in the Twin Cities area.

Mohamad Kamal Elzahabi was indicted on charges of possessing fraudulent immigration documents, according to papers scanned into the computer system Wednesday in U.S. District Court in Minneapolis.

The new indictment comes on top of charges in June 2004 that Elzahabi, then 41, lied to federal agents about sending walkie-talkies to Pakistan and helping to get a Massachusetts driver's license for a man later convicted of plotting to bomb American and Israeli tourists in Jordan.

Elzahabi allegedly told FBI agents that he taught sniping in Afghanistan and associated with Al-Qaida leaders....
Elzahabi, a Lebanese national, allegedly told authorities he entered the United States in the 1980s and paid a Houston woman to marry him, then divorced her after getting his green card.

Posted by Robert [Spencer] at December 8, 2005 08:51 AM |

[Kelly]

Kelly, I just can't believe how naive so many people are, it's just mind boggling.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/009338.php

It is indeed. I never did hear back from that mother. I hope the girl did the smart thing.

[Old Broad]

I hope the daughter comes to her senses! There are many scary stories out there, I can't remember the woman's name but it happened this past winter, I believe she was from Oregon and she met a man from another state, possibly Wy or Montana? Anyway she thought she'd met the man of her dreams on a on-line dating service, he came to meet her, she even introduced him to her ex-husband. She ended up quitting her job of over 20 some years and cashed in her 401k and went up to be with him with the intention of coming back to finish taking care of everything with her house etc and then they were getting married. She never came back home and her family and friends never heard from her again. When he was contacted his story was that he'd dropped her off at the airport, when it was checked it showed she never had a ticket. I have no doubt her body ended up buried somewhere in the wilderness and all of her money was pocketed. I hope for her family that she will be found and identified one day and that she didn't suffer for a long time. There are so many lonely and vulnerable people out there and often smooth talking charmers can fool sophisticated people even.
I hope this grandmother does everything in her power to stop that little girl from going over there!!!

I have met my fiance on-line, we have met in person now 4 different times, the last time was for 3 weeks. I have met most of his friends and family now and in July we're both flying up so he can meet my family. It has been over a year since we've met and both of our families had some suspicion at first which is very underdstandable!! There is a reason we are going slow, I want both of us to be sure we're not rushing into something.
The internet has changed the way people can meet, but just like in any other way, you Have to go slow and use good judgement!
It's possible you can meet someone in church and they can become a nightmare, the same can be true of the internet, you have to be careful of anybody you meet and if you have a young child you better take even more precautions!

Old Broad.

[Dex]

Great points, Petra. I was wondering the same thing about male dominance and citizenship. I pray this girl comes to her senses.
And I hate to say it, but sex slaves has been highlighted in the news alot.... With such domination that could exist who's to say her child won't be ripped from her arms and her forced to do things against her will..........

[katiecoolady]

Hope this link still works. It didn't happen from the internet but it did happen from desperation of a sweet innocent young woman who fell prey to a predator. It was a plan & she turned out to be the victim. Just horrible. I wish you luck in attempting to shake some common sense into your daughter.

I have seen some talk shows about these types as well, they ruin women financially & emotionally, pedaphiles seek out women with young children.


http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/issues/1994-12-08/news/feature.html
WHEN UNDERWRITERS BECOME UNDERTAKERS DESPITE GLARING WARNING SIGNS, THE INSURERS APPROVED THE HEFTY LIFE-INSURANCE POLICY-- AND GAVE TWO CON MEN A REASON TO KILL BY PAUL RUBIN

Cindy met 25-year-old German immigrant Michael Apelt at Bobby McGee's restaurant in Mesa. On October 28, 1988, she eloped to Las Vegas with the lanky, blond stranger. She had known him for three weeks.
Ten days later, Cindy and her new husband walked into a Phoenix insurance agency.

More at link above.

On December 22, 1988, Ramsey hand-delivered the $100,000 Surety policy to the Apelts in Mesa. He also told them the larger Banner policy was a go, and he took a check from Cindy for the first month's premium.
Early the next evening, Michael and Cindy Apelt drove to a remote site east of Apache Junction. Michael's brother, Rudi, and Michael's ex-lover, a German woman named Anke Dorn, trailed in another car.
Cindy died there, at the foot of the Superstition Mountains, her lifeblood seeping into the desert after a stabbing that left her almost decapitated.
She had been married seven weeks.

The above sadly is a true story.
Have we "met"? That story is about my sister.