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blueclouds
01-01-2004, 03:34 AM
How sad... why are girls/women still throwing babies away. Drop them off at the door steps of people like they used to. Very sad


http://abcnews.go.com/wire/US/ap20031231_2579.html

Ghostwheel
01-01-2004, 07:44 PM
How sad... why are girls/women still throwing babies away. Drop them off at the door steps of people like they used to. Very sad


http://abcnews.go.com/wire/US/ap20031231_2579.htmlFrom the article:"We are appealing to the public for anyone to call us with information about anyone who recently gave birth or should have given birth and does not have a child with them," Burig said.

Why do they want this information? To punish the person who left the baby. That's why people do dumb things like this, because they think they will get iin trouble no matter what they do. If they leave it on a door step, someone will want to know who did it. If the baby died during birth, someone will want to know who had the baby. We, as a society, need to make it easy for pregnent women to get help, or give up their babies without a big Hoo-hah, and a way to keep identities under wraps.

blueclouds
01-01-2004, 10:44 PM
I agree ghost. There are some states that (or one at least I heard of) that make it legal to drop off a baby in a hospital / clinic, no questions asked. (Although I cannot understand anyone who'd do this to something so helpless as a baby. They need help)

miimaa
01-02-2004, 10:46 AM
Why should the mother have an easy out and be allowed to just leave her baby someplace? Because if she decides to keep the baby Social Services people will make sure the dad pays child support. The dads should have an out too. If a woman can leave her baby someplace - no questions asked - then there better be a way for the father to be free as well.

MrsMush99
01-02-2004, 08:31 PM
From the article:"We are appealing to the public for anyone to call us with information about anyone who recently gave birth or should have given birth and does not have a child with them," Burig said.

Why do they want this information? To punish the person who left the baby. That's why people do dumb things like this, because they think they will get iin trouble no matter what they do. If they leave it on a door step, someone will want to know who did it. If the baby died during birth, someone will want to know who had the baby. We, as a society, need to make it easy for pregnent women to get help, or give up their babies without a big Hoo-hah, and a way to keep identities under wraps.

Ghostwheel,

I don't agree. This baby was found dead. The person who did this should be punished. Especially, if this little girl was murdered.

I know here in New York we have a drop off system. I could be wrong, but I believe Rosie O'Donnell had something to do with that. There are no questions asked if you drop the baby off within a certain period of time.

It makes me so angry to see this. There are so many people that have such a hard time having babies, why not put the child up for adoption? Or leave it at a church or hospital. I know at least 4 couples that have a hard time having children, and would love to have a baby. To me, it is disgusting and they should be punished.

blueclouds
01-03-2004, 12:33 AM
This is tough. Yes, its unimaginable to think she / he / both could go free and no consequenses but how many dead babies are they going to find in trash until some other options are sought.


such as these babies

http://www.startribune.com/stories/462/4298645.html

Hammerized
01-03-2004, 02:43 AM
41 states have "Safe Haven" laws:
http://newbornlifeline.com/default.asp?id=15&mnu=15

PA does not have a law, per se- but they do have a similar option- http://www.ahandtohold.org/ All hospitals in PA are "Safe Havens" for newborns up to 28 days old... this case and so many others just do not have to be. :(

Toth
01-03-2004, 12:58 PM
PA does not have a law, per seYou might want to look at the colonial laws wherein PA lead the way to establish that a woman who had not concealed the pregnancy, had set aside materials for the birth and clothing for the newborn, and in other respects had demonstrated an intention to bear the child, could not be prosecuted for any failure to care for or active killing of the child that took place at the time of birth or shortly thereafter.

the Amish have raumspringen, 'running around' during which young teenage girls are free to bring gentlemen home to their bedrooms and have them stay overnight. the parents will make no inquiry as to what did or did not happen.

Ghostwheel
01-04-2004, 09:26 PM
the Amish have raumspringen, 'running around' during which young teenage girls are free to bring gentlemen home to their bedrooms and have them stay overnight. the parents will make no inquiry as to what did or did not happen.Sounds interesting, but I can find no information on this "tradition", so to speak. Any links, per chance?

I know of other traditions, like bundling, but that's a whole different story.

Jeana (DP)
01-05-2004, 10:57 AM
Why should the mother have an easy out and be allowed to just leave her baby someplace? Because if she decides to keep the baby Social Services people will make sure the dad pays child support. The dads should have an out too. If a woman can leave her baby someplace - no questions asked - then there better be a way for the father to be free as well.

You must be joking? First of all, its usually the mothers who dump their newborns in the garbage cans. If it can save the baby's life, why not allow the mother to drop it off in a safe location? There are MILLIONS of fathers who don't pay for their children, who take off before the baby is born or who just plain don't have a job. Not paying for them isn't MURDER. While I'd like to see these men take care of their responsibilities as much as you do, if the mother's options are either (a) to kill the newborn or (b) drop it off somewhere secure with no questions asked - how can anyone think choice (a) is the correct one?

miimaa
01-05-2004, 11:18 AM
You must be joking? First of all, its usually the mothers who dump their newborns in the garbage cans. If it can save the baby's life, why not allow the mother to drop it off in a safe location? There are MILLIONS of fathers who don't pay for their children, who take off before the baby is born or who just plain don't have a job. Not paying for them isn't MURDER. While I'd like to see these men take care of their responsibilities as much as you do, if the mother's options are either (a) to kill the newborn or (b) drop it off somewhere secure with no questions asked - how can anyone think choice (a) is the correct one?

NO, I am not joking! I do not think ANY mother should be able to abandon (AKA "drop off") her baby and suffer no legal consequences UNLESS the legal system also allows the father to walk away if he wanted. The mother could give the baby up for adoption - legally! Prior to that she could have used birth control or decided NOT to have sex - same choices as the father had. After conception ALL the choices are with the mother - to continue the pregnancy and whether or not to keep the child.

I'm all for mothers giving up an unwanted child. That is certainly better than murder. But to be allowed to just drop off a baby with no questions asked is so unfair to fathers. Pregnancy occurs in many different circumstances - relationships, one-night stands, rape, affairs. Just as an example - a girl gets pregnant after a one night stand with some guy she casually knows. She has the baby then wants child support. The father will be forced to pay or face jail time, license suspension, bad credit rating, etc. Now WHY in the hell should that girl have the option of just dropping off that baby UNLESS you give the same option to the father? SHE could give the baby up for adoption if she can't or doesn't want to raise him/her. What options does the father have? NONE. She keeps the baby = he pays. He should have equal say/rights in that child's future.

I don't know where you live but here in Minnesota if the parents are not married the baby automatically belongs ONLY to the mother. The father has no legal rights whatsoever. I know this to be true because this has happened to my son. He sees the baby as often as the mother will ALLOW him to. He has tried to find out what his rights as a father are only to be told by social services that he has none. She can move any place at any time AND deny him visitation with the child and there is nothing he can do. But at the same time the state withholds child support from his check, has taken his drivers license because he fell behind while unemployed and is now saying they will report him to the credit bureau. The welfare "system" supports the mother and shits on the father. The entire structure of custody, visitation, and legal responsibility needs to change. This gal my son has a child with has two children with two different fathers, as does her sister. Neither of them work or have any intention of working - she has stated this to my son. She lives with a THIRD guy (her boyfriend) and likes to party. My son would like to have full custody of his child but doesn't stand a chance.

Jeana (DP)
01-05-2004, 12:07 PM
Well it makes sense now that you would say that because your bitter about your own circumstances. However, there's a world of difference between killing a baby you don't want and not making child support payments. Women can have abortions without the father's consent. Is that fair? Some men would say that its not. Did you know that 70% of black babies are born out of wedlock? There's a serious problem with unwanted pregnancies, but until a better plan comes around, I would rather have these women be allowed to drop off the babies than put them in the dumpster. I think there's enough guilt to go around as to the cause of these problems, but none of it should be heaped upon the babies.

Also, let's teach our boys about the use of condoms. Might solve some problems!!!!

babylove
01-05-2004, 05:29 PM
Everytime I hear about a baby being abandoned my heart just aches. How could anyone do that to a helpless little baby? :(

In Ohio, we have several counties where you can take a baby within 72 hours of its birth, and drop it off, no questions asked, provided the baby hasn't been abused in any way.

This has signifigantly reduced the number of mothers who have murdered or abandoned their children soon after birth.

Being a mother, I cannot even begin to imagine what could make a mother do what this woman (and all the others) have done to thier own babies, 99% of them being healthy at birth, how could you just leave your newborn, totally helpless to cry and starve to death alone in the cold?!

I always wondered, and then recently, a dear friend of mine, who already had a child, told me she was 7 months pregnan, and the whole time I had no idea. I asked her when she was going to tell everyone, she said she wasn't planning to, that she herself had been in denial (the pregnancy was a result of a date rape) and had pretended she wasn't even pregnant, until she could feel the baby moving, which she told, she despised feeling. I was totally shocked. Then I realized, if my own friend (who is a wonderful person) was pregnant and hiding it so easily from everyone, lots of woen can, and do. Then when they inevitably give birth, they have hidden the pregnacy thus far, so they have to hide the baby then too. My friend ended up telling a few close friends and family, and eventually decided on open adoption, and gave the baby up at birth.

Its SO sad that people don't realize there are other options... and IMO, anyone that can do that to a baby, deserves to be found, tried and convicted, and given the same death sentence they gave thier baby, tied up somewhere, left naked to weather the elements, no food, no water, nothing. Then when they finally do die, the body should be dumped into a landfill, just like they threw thier baby in the trash. :mad:

luthersmama
01-09-2004, 02:39 PM
Sounds interesting, but I can find no information on this "tradition", so to speak. Any links, per chance?

I know of other traditions, like bundling, but that's a whole different story.


I doubt that the baby was born to an Amish girl. They would be more likely to arrange a marriage or place an out of wedlock baby with a childless couple in the community. More likely the baby was "English" and the trash can was in a secluded location.

MrsMush99
01-10-2004, 10:52 AM
NO, I am not joking! I do not think ANY mother should be able to abandon (AKA "drop off") her baby and suffer no legal consequences UNLESS the legal system also allows the father to walk away if he wanted.

They do have a legal system for father's who don't want anything to do with their child. It's called Giving Up Your Parental Rights. My daughter's "biological" father did this, with my blessing, about 3 years ago. Granted my husband was adopting her, and he did have to pay child support until the adoption went through, you now how much? A measly $25.00 a month!!! So, if there is an unwanted child, I think that there should be some place where these mothers can drop their babies off without any consequences. Better then murder, don't you think?

Maxi
01-10-2004, 08:15 PM
I don't know if it's true, but I've read that nunneries had drop-off boxes for unwanted babies in the Middle Ages. Supposedly, they were primarily for the use of unwed mothers. I think it's a great idea. Saving the lives of unwanted children is far more important than hitting the mothers or fathers up for child support.

I adopted a baby who was abandoned at a hospital in India with no questions asked. I am very glad her mom didn't fear being hunted down for abandoning her newborn. We were told we were lucky because babies aren't usually abandoned in such a safe place. Many are left on trains or at the side of a river. After three days at the hospital, she was turned over to an orphanage run by Mother Teresa's order.

My daughter's birth certificate has funny, old fashioned language that may come from the old days when babies were left at nunneries. It says, "abandoned at the gates of the Missionaries of Charity". Of course, the orphanage has no gates, and the sisters actually picked her up at the hospital.

Here's a link about rumspringa, the "running around" time of Amish youth.

http://www.npr.org/programs/morning/features
/2002/may/amish/

mindys
01-10-2004, 09:25 PM
It happens everywhere. What a forked up world:

http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/44723.htm

miimaa
01-12-2004, 09:38 AM
They do have a legal system for father's who don't want anything to do with their child. It's called Giving Up Your Parental Rights. My daughter's "biological" father did this, with my blessing, about 3 years ago. Granted my husband was adopting her, and he did have to pay child support until the adoption went through, you now how much? A measly $25.00 a month!!! So, if there is an unwanted child, I think that there should be some place where these mothers can drop their babies off without any consequences. Better then murder, don't you think?

Of course dropping off the baby in a safe place would be better than murder. What my feelings are is that if the legal system tells the mother she can just drop the baby off, no questions asked - then what about the father? If the mother can keep the pregnancy hidden and then just leave the baby somewhere that would be fine IF men get the same LEGAL consideration. I know that mothers almost always take responsibility for raising the child - I've been a single parent myself for 15 years. But what about the guy who didn't want a baby? (and please don't say "He should have kept his pants on" because the same goes for the mother) The "system" will force him to pay child support until that child is 18 (or 21 if in college) or serve jail time. That is what I don't think is fair. The MOTHER can decide whether or not she wants the baby? The father has no say. In Minnesota you cannot just give up your parental rights UNLESS the mother asks for and agrees to it. The courts here will usually not grant it unless there is another male to step in. It's all about financial support for the child. The father who never sees the baby, has no rights to the baby, will still be held financially responsible even including the cost of delivery whether the couple was married or not. So my feeling is the mother should not be able to drop off the baby when the father is held accountable IF SHE decides to keep the child? Either way, an innocent little baby deserves to be loved by SOMEONE. I think it's the most horrible thing in the world when children are abused or abandoned. But telling mothers they aren't liable for abandonment while telling men they WILL be held responsible isn't right.

miimaa
01-12-2004, 10:01 AM
I guess I should restate my position to something more like the following. If the mother does not want the baby, then yes, she should leave that baby in a safe place. Babies in the trash just make me sick. Little kids who are murdered by their mom or mom's boyfriend break my heart. I wish I could have been there to save that child. It just seems the social services system treats fathers very unfairly. Dad gets to see his kids every other weekend. What's that? He should see the kids EVERY weekend irregardless of child support. The parents should live in the same school district so the kids could stay nights at either parent's house. One couple had the kids stay in the same house and THEY alternated who slept there, the other parent went to an apartment. They must have been some fabulous people to design a plan like that because it's unusual. It just makes me sick to think about little kids being hurt and mistreated by the very people who are supposed to love and protect them. Why do people have babies when they don't want them? Why do they have babies with someone they don't love or who doesn't love them? Because ladies, if that guy doesn't love you having a baby won't change anything. Use birth control - it's readily available. We need to get birth control pills for men on the market. And if you can't love and care for your child for heaven's sake go for adoption.

Jeana (DP)
01-12-2004, 06:28 PM
Miimaa, I agree with what you posted. Is there any way your son and his ex-wife can come to some sort of similar arrangement? It must be terribly difficult for a father whose used to seeing his children every day, being reduced to every other weekend.