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View Full Version : Should Raven take a polygraph test?


OriginalJerseyGirl
02-03-2006, 11:56 AM
A lot of people are uncomfortable taking a polygraph even if they ARE innocent. I think that I'd be nervous about it myself. Is there a way that Raven could arrange to take one on his own at his lawyer's office or something? I remember that John Mason in the ridiculous run-away bride case, (ironically on the same night that Janet was murdered I think), was willing to do something like that - arrange for his own polygraph to include videotaping in his lawyer's office. LE wouldn't accept it but it seems that it would be better than nothing anyway - if for nothing else, to at least prove to his family and friends that he's not afraid to take it. Because it seems to me that no matter his family and friends say, they cannot possibly be 100% convinced of his innocence. The lie detector could change that for him.

All things considered, I think that Raven should take a polygraph test.

OriginalJerseyGirl
02-03-2006, 12:11 PM
Sorry, to clarify - the poll question is -

Had Raven taken a polygraph test early on, would it have influenced your opinion on whether or not he was guilty?

In the body of your posts, I'd be interested in what you all think about whether or not Raven should take a polygraph now.

(I didn't make the poll "Should Raven take a polygraph test" only because I figured nearly everyone would answer yes and we wouldn't really learn anything from it.)

Jenifred
02-03-2006, 12:22 PM
If he had taken the polygraph early on and passed, I'd be more way more inclined to believe that he was innocent.

Should he take one now? Sure, why not? If he's innocent, he's got nothing to hide.

SouthEastSleuth
02-03-2006, 12:24 PM
COPYING FROM THE "DEAR RAVEN" THREAD TO HERE:




Quote:
Originally Posted by terminatrixator
How about contacting Law Enforcement and making an appointment to take a Lie Detector test? Oh, I'm sorry, did your Attorney inform you not to do this? Does your attorney also believe you are a Stone Cold Murderer too? I bet he does and therefore would not want you take one.


You know, this has always bothered me. Now, I know full well that more often than not, once someone hires an attorney, that the attorney will usually tell the person what to say, what not to say, what to do, what not to do, including a polygraph - but I swear, if it were me, and I KNEW I was innocent, I'd tell my attorney to shove that advice up his a**! I'd be BEGGING LE to give me a polygraph, to show I was NOT GUILTY, and then to allow LE to focus elsewhere.

Now granted, in this situation, LE has never named Raven a POI. But, that said, I'm sure Raven knows by now that he walks around each and every day under a cloud of suspicion, and most likely from LE too, even if they've never said that publically. So if you're in fact 100% innocent, why the hell would you NOT come and offer to take a polygraph from LE? It makes no sense to me whatsoever. Sure, polygraphs might not be 100% accurate, sure, polygraphs may not be used in court, BUT, if nothing else, volunteering to take a polygraph from LE says that a person is willing to help, and is at least comfortable in coming in and saying, 'you know what, test me, I have nothing to hide!'

SouthEastSleuth
02-03-2006, 12:26 PM
COPYING FROM THE "DEAR RAVEN" THREAD TO HERE:



Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyGirl
A lot of people are uncomfortable to take a polygraph even if they ARE innocent. I think that I'd be nervous about it myself. Is there a way that Raven could arrange to take one on his own at his lawyer's office or something. I remember that John Mason in the ridiculous run-away bride case, (ironically on the same night that Janet was murdered I think), was willing to do something like that - arrange for his own polygraph to include videotaping in his lawyer's office. LE wouldn't accept it but it seems that it would be better than nothing anyway.


I still don't get it I guess - and maybe you have to be in that situation to really make that choice...but at this point, to me anyway, I just feel like I'd be doing ANYTHING possible to clear my name, and to make sure LE was looking in other directions. And I guess I don't really see the point in taking a polygraph independently of LE? If you're willing to TAKE a test, why would you not take it with LE? It seems to me that taking one "on your own" just implies that you're afraid to face LE, for some reason or another?

OriginalJerseyGirl
02-03-2006, 12:56 PM
Polygraphs to prove innocence? (http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:wyZT89FlDO4J:knoxville.wate.com/sound_off/index.php/topic,172.0.html+polygraph+prove+innocence&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=2&ie=UTF-8)

This is just a message board but what this person says makes a lot of sense:

"Tennessee law currently prohibits the admissibility of polygraph tests as evidence in court. The reason is that the test cannot conclusively determine if someone is lying ... but only analyzes stress responses to questions and answers and compares to a baseline stress response a person exhibits answering normal questions truthfully. The idea is that when people are lying, they exhibit more stress symptoms than they do when normally telling the truth.

The test is not 100% reliable because people can learn to manipulate their own stress responses to defeat the test ... and ... people who are lying but who are skilled enough actors to place themselves in a physiological state of self-belief (kind of like you do when trying to realistically portray a character role on stage) can defeat the test (as well as sociopaths who feel no guilt whatsoever about lying and can lie just as easy as they can tell the truth)."

So what the heck Raven, why don't you take the test? You've got nothing to lose. They're not admissable in court and you might just come out believable. It's worth a shot. And then maybe LE can move on in the investigation and get closer to finding your wife and baby's killer.

SouthEastSleuth
02-03-2006, 01:49 PM
If he had taken the polygraph early on and passed, I'd be more way more inclined to believe that he was innocent.

Should he take one now? Sure, why not? If he's innocent, he's got nothing to hide.

I agree - if Raven had taken a polygraph and PASSED it, soon after Janet's murder, I would have been much more inclined to believe in his innocence too. Now? It surely can't hurt anything.

terminatrixator
02-03-2006, 02:13 PM
Well, if he had taken a polygraph immediately after the Murder, I would be inclined to agree and Raven's guilt or innocence would not have been in question here.

If The Raven goes to the Durham Police Department and takes it, and passes, then it would mean something to me.

If Raven decided to go to an Independent Testing Agency, I would not put much faith in it. If the Raven took it independently, there are too many variables involved whether he passed or failed in my opinion.

Without the tester having the correct knowledge on how to administer the testing, whether or not Raven purchased books and practiced taking a test in the past, would be in question.

Whether or not he used mental breathing techniques to pass, or even tranquilizers to slow the pulse rate would be questions that would lead me to not trust the validity of the test. If he was not also subjected to a blood test to test for drugs in his system that can help in his responses, and slow his breathing down, this test would mean nothing to me.

There is much controvery on testing sociopaths and psychopaths, such as Raven. Sociopaths and psychopaths, have been lying for a long time, and start believing their lies, and there is some data that shows it is easier for sociopaths to pass a lie detector test than non-sociopaths.

There is other data showing, that even sociopaths or psychopaths that believe their lies, still failed.

There is data to indicate that going to independent agency, and not having the correct questions asked can create a false pretense of passing and unless there is a blood test showing no use of tranquilizers in the system, then the test to me would not be valid.

I offered before, I would go to Durham Police Department and sit in the room with Raven and his attorney and take a Polygraph first, and then let LE do their thing with the Raven.

It's not going to happen though, Raven would NEVER voluntarily go to Durham LE and take a Polygraph Test. Hell, he won't even call them to check on the investigation of Janet's murder.

juliagoulia
02-03-2006, 03:34 PM
To qote Dr. Phil: The way you can tell if Raven is lying is if his lips are moving...:liar:

He probably believes his own lies and could do very well on polygraph. However, if he had done it early on it would have given me the impression that--at the very least--he was cooperating and wanted the murder solved.

Moxie
02-03-2006, 05:24 PM
I will only trust a polygraph that is conducted by LE - not someone Raven selects.

ewwwinteresting
02-03-2006, 05:29 PM
:laugh: To qote Dr. Phil: The way you can tell if Raven is lying is if his lips are moving...:liar:

He probably believes his own lies and could do very well on polygraph. However, if he had done it early on it would have given me the impression that--at the very least--he was cooperating and wanted the murder solved.
That's the key here Julia, cooperation! If he was cooperating (even if he didn't take a lie detector test), it could change my opinion.
He's NOT speaking out for Janet, He's NOT offering a reward, He's NOT contacting LE, He's NOT memorizing her on the web (like he did himself before she was murdered), He's NOT trying to find out who murdered his wife. He IS moving away from the crime scene quickly, He IS moving on, He IS going on trips, He IS dating others, He IS financially benefitting from the crime.

It's was raven is and isn't doing that makes him look like such a :loser: and guilty. So, raven, if you don't want to take a lie detector test (for whatever reason), at least contact LE and talk to them. Find out where they are in the case and what YOU can do to help this investigation.

BirdHunter
02-03-2006, 06:35 PM
Sorry, to clarify - the poll question is -

Had Raven taken a polygraph test early on, would it have influenced your opinion on whether or not he was guilty?

In the body of your posts, I'd be interested in what you all think about whether or not Raven should take a polygraph now.

(I didn't make the poll "Should Raven take a polygraph test" only because I figured nearly everyone would answer yes and we wouldn't really learn anything from it.)It is almost pointless now. If Raven had taken a polygraph right away when he was initially asked to by LE and had passed, I and many other people would have looked for the killer elsewhere. The way I understand the events to have gone down were that Raven agreed to take the polygraph when he was first asked (the night of the murder) and then when he was due back the next day to take it, LE found out he had gotten a lawyer and would not be taking the polygraph. So now after all this time taking a "private" lie detector test??? No this would not fly with me!!!

BirdHunter
02-03-2006, 06:37 PM
COPYING FROM THE "DEAR RAVEN" THREAD TO HERE:




Quote:
Originally Posted by terminatrixator
How about contacting Law Enforcement and making an appointment to take a Lie Detector test? Oh, I'm sorry, did your Attorney inform you not to do this? Does your attorney also believe you are a Stone Cold Murderer too? I bet he does and therefore would not want you take one.


You know, this has always bothered me. Now, I know full well that more often than not, once someone hires an attorney, that the attorney will usually tell the person what to say, what not to say, what to do, what not to do, including a polygraph - but I swear, if it were me, and I KNEW I was innocent, I'd tell my attorney to shove that advice up his a**! I'd be BEGGING LE to give me a polygraph, to show I was NOT GUILTY, and then to allow LE to focus elsewhere.

Now granted, in this situation, LE has never named Raven a POI. But, that said, I'm sure Raven knows by now that he walks around each and every day under a cloud of suspicion, and most likely from LE too, even if they've never said that publically. So if you're in fact 100% innocent, why the hell would you NOT come and offer to take a polygraph from LE? It makes no sense to me whatsoever. Sure, polygraphs might not be 100% accurate, sure, polygraphs may not be used in court, BUT, if nothing else, volunteering to take a polygraph from LE says that a person is willing to help, and is at least comfortable in coming in and saying, 'you know what, test me, I have nothing to hide!'EXACTLY! Test me. I will take the test any time. I know I would pass!

OriginalJerseyGirl
02-03-2006, 06:37 PM
The way I understand the events to have gone down were that Raven agreed to take the polygraph when he was first asked (the night of the murder) and then when he was due back the next day to take it, LE found out he had gotten a lawyer and would not be taking the polygraph.The NEXT day??? So in the period of the one day between being asked to take the test and actually taking it, Raven retained an attorney? Oh my ...

BirdHunter
02-03-2006, 06:40 PM
The NEXT day??? So in the period of the one day between being asked to take the test and actually taking it, Raven retained an attorney? Oh my ...Baby, it was more like HOURS!

OriginalJerseyGirl
02-03-2006, 06:43 PM
Baby, it was more like HOURS!I'm truly nauseous.

terminatrixator
02-03-2006, 07:24 PM
Raven calls LE and says his wife his hurt, then he says shot.

There's a huge difference between gunshots, and knife wounds, Raven would know this "I got myself a buck knife."

Paramedics come find Janet on her back, Raven states he found her on her knees.

Raven tells people she was still warm, led LE to believe she may still be alive, then he tells others he found her and she was cold.

Told people he tried to "save her", told others he tried to give her (I don't remember the exact terminology) "Priest Blessing" (?)

LE takes Raven to police station, questions Raven, asks him to take a Polygraph. Raven agrees to take one the next day.

Raven then states the only thing missing is the laptop, when Janet had her jewelry there, there were other things to steal in that home.

Raven calls someone from his church (a friend) to pick him up.

Contacts Janet's parents, he's sobbing and hands the phone to someone from his Church. While Raven is standing there, this person informs the family that Janet Committed Suicide, which was what Raven told this person, not that she was murdered, that she committed suicide.

The very next morning, someone in Raven's family starts a TRUST FUND, Raven Hires an Attorney (I'm assuming Julian Mack, who handled his embezzlement)

Raven lawyers up and refused to take the polygraph.

Add to this, the embezzlement, the numerous affairs, talks of insurance floating around, reading Ravenstree, his habitual issues with lying, and anyone believes he didn't kill Janet why?

JustJax
02-03-2006, 09:03 PM
Raven knew she wasn't shot, and he told many conflicting versions of the events that night, all to make him look as innocent as possible.
And didn't he also tell someone that she committed suicide?
He strikes me as a person that lies so much that he cannot decide which version of his stories he tells best suits his needs at the time. I don't think he is quite the accomplished sociopath as Scott Peterson was/is so that is why he ran as fast as he could to Mommy's house on the other side of the country.
When I saw that sound byte of him after his embezzlement hearing he looked like he was about to poop himself, deer in the headlights kinda thing.

terminatrixator
02-03-2006, 09:38 PM
Oh he's an accomplished Sociopath indeed, don't let that day fool you. You have to remember that the Embezzlement hearing was scheduled for later in the week, he thought he was going to that hearing, and nobody would know because it was actually scheduled a few days later and it got moved up.

When he came out, he did NOT expect Media to be there. Hence, the Deer In the Headlights look.

A few days before the scheduled hearing, I checked out the Orange County Docket and it was there, then it disappeared. I knew something was amiss, and I made a few enquiries, and realized the hearing was pushed up. The right people found out and just so happen to be in the area to catch him coming out of the courthouse. He did NOT expect this, as the hearing date was suppose to be on a different day. He was caught off guard.

I think Raven is as accomplished a sociopath and psychopath as Scott Peterson and I believe there are many shades of Jackie Peterson in his Mother.

He's a pathological liar, he's a very dangerous person and I do not put it past the Raven to kill again.

JustJax
02-03-2006, 09:56 PM
He's a pathological liar, he's a very dangerous person and I do not put it past the Raven to kill again.


Well Trix, I am praying that he is behind bars before that happens.

terminatrixator
02-03-2006, 10:18 PM
Me too Spanky, me too.

newkid
02-04-2006, 11:19 AM
Early on, had he taken the polygraph, I would be less suspicious of him. If he takes one now, I don't think it would make much difference, though I would put more stock in one administered by LE than a private place.

LTUlegal
02-05-2006, 12:56 AM
I agree with all of you. Had raven taken a poly earlier, I might have put more stock into the outcome. Now? No friggin' way. He believes all of his lies at this point & that's all he needs to pass any poly, in my opinion.
And, yes...Jackie Peterson, and just for fun, look up Frederick Harlan Coe's mother. Same person, different day.

lauriej
02-05-2006, 03:38 AM
..it just boggles my mind, that not only has he NOT taken a polygraph-------on day one, day two-----------day 30-------instead, he packed up and moved clear across the country!

..why on earth would an innocent man NOT have stayed and helped/hounded LE every possible moment to find out who could have done this horrendous crime ????

..it just makes no sense whatsoever to me that he would leave this VERY unfinished business behind------------------for SOME reason, the raven couldn't wait to get out of NC ----and 'move on' in Utah......socializing, dating again, ----doesn't come across that he cares too much about what happened last april ..

..a clue raven:--------------your wife ( and unborn baby ) were MURDERED----------what are you doing about that ?? (oh right,nothing.)

LTUlegal
02-05-2006, 04:42 AM
..it just boggles my mind, that not only has he NOT taken a polygraph-------on day one, day two-----------day 30-------instead, he packed up and moved clear across the country!

..why on earth would an innocent man NOT have stayed and helped/hounded LE every possible moment to find out who could have done this horrendous crime ????

..it just makes no sense whatsoever to me that he would leave this VERY unfinished business behind------------------for SOME reason, the raven couldn't wait to get out of NC ----and 'move on' in Utah......socializing, dating again, ----doesn't come across that he cares too much about what happened last april ..

..a clue raven:--------------your wife ( and unborn baby ) were MURDERED----------what are you doing about that ?? (oh right,nothing.)
Um, it makes sense to me. When you want to get away from the scene of the crime because you're guilty...don't take a polygraph test, because it could show you're a liar...and run, run as fast as you can! chump!:mad:

terminatrixator
02-05-2006, 09:38 PM
Um, it makes sense to me. When you want to get away from the scene of the crime because you're guilty...don't take a polygraph test, because it could show you're a liar...and run, run as fast as you can! chump!:mad:
Yep, but he's a proven liar with or without a polygraph.

OriginalJerseyGirl
02-09-2006, 02:57 PM
It's been a few days since we opened this thread ... has he taken that polygraph he promised LE yet?

Come on Raven, give us a reason to believe that you're cooperating. An innocent man that thinks that his wife was "the epitome of what a woman should be" would certainly cooperate with LE to find out who committed this horrendous crime against his beloved wife!

terminatrixator
02-09-2006, 03:05 PM
He will NEVER take a polygraph. He has the guts to kill his wife and unborn child but not to take a polygraph, what a man!

RainbowsAndGumdrops
02-09-2006, 04:24 PM
I do have to say that it is easy to fail a polygraph test. Many government and military people have to pass polygraph tests. I have known so many people that have failed. Some have tried to hide things like drug use, but others have simply been nervous. I would give him a lot of credit if would have passed (you can't really fake passing a poly), but I would have questioned a failed result, if they only tried one time. Many people that fail (don't pass) and have to retake a test a few times to calm down enough to pass. In those instances, the results are just unclear...so you don't "pass". I guess that we have to assume that if they were unsure of the results, the LE would retake the test until they were confident with the results and not determine a pass or fail until then.

terminatrixator
02-09-2006, 07:20 PM
Yes, it is true, that you could be nervous and flunk.

It is not used in a court of law, so its a moot point, but I would be interested in him taking one at the Durham Police Department.

However, had Raven taken this polygraph the day after the murder and passed, many wouldn't be focusing on him.

I wouldn't have been as charming as I am had he taken it the day after and passed, but I would still be focusing on him whether he passed or failed, I don't think with everything else there is on The Rave that passing or failing would sway my opinion of who committed this crime.

OriginalJerseyGirl
02-10-2006, 08:54 AM
I think that a large percentage of those that fail the test without actually lying do so because of improper administration, poor questions, etc. If you have an experienced operator with the correct questions, a lot can be gleaned from one. And it is possible to get a false pass, especially in the case of sedation or sociopaths.

OriginalJerseyGirl
09-19-2006, 07:28 AM
Bump. Take the test, Raven. For God's sake, help to move this investigation forward!

terminatrixator
09-19-2006, 09:57 AM
JG - it will NEVER happen because he will fail; he knows it, we know it, everyone knows it.

There's a bigger chance of monkey's flying out my butt than him taking a polygraph in Durham, NC.

OriginalJerseyGirl
09-19-2006, 10:04 AM
There's a bigger chance of monkey's flying out my butt than him taking a polygraph in Durham, NC.Well, with all of the changes that have been occurring within his family lately, I thought that maybe he had a change of heart as well. :innocent:

terminatrixator
09-19-2006, 10:25 AM
I don't think Raven believes he will ever be arrested or convicted of this crime and probably feels there is no reason to volunteer information. I doubt he will ever show his face in North Carolina again.

I'm betting he thinks he's free and clear and has no reason to confess, plus I don't think he has a conscience or a heart, so he wouldn't know the concept of clearing his conscience or having a change of a heart and again.... there's another bigger chance of monkey's flying out my butt than these two things happening.

Barton Corbin thought he got away with it too and after all those years, the families of Jennifer and Dolly finally have justice.

He's going to pay for murdering Janet and his unborn child eventually, the waiting is the hardest part.

RainbowsAndGumdrops
09-19-2006, 02:20 PM
I used to think he should take the test, but his actions seem to indicate that he doesn't even care about Janet, her death, or that he did it. He seems so cold hearted that I really don't think his heart would race or that his emotions would change when asked about the situation. - Just my opinion.

OriginalJerseyGirl
09-20-2006, 09:24 AM
I used to think he should take the test, but his actions seem to indicate that he doesn't even care about Janet, her death, or that he did it. He seems so cold hearted that I really don't think his heart would race or that his emotions would change when asked about the situation. - Just my opinion.You could be right - especially the more time that passes.

WhiteWolf
09-22-2006, 07:50 PM
I really don't care if a person (or Raven) takes a lie detector test or not so I voted no. They seem to have some investigative value, but in the long run it's all of the other evidence that gets the convictions.

OriginalJerseyGirl
09-22-2006, 07:58 PM
I think that a person's willingness (or lack thereof) to take a polygraph is often telling, however. Raven's had a lawyer since day one (or two?) so what's the problem? I'm sure that the lawyer can set it up so that it's fair. So whaddya' say, Raven? Why don't you have your lawyer set it up so that at least we can move on from here if you pass the test?

terminatrixator
09-24-2006, 09:17 AM
I believe it was stated here that he went to Police Station right after the murder, left it somewhere between 3 - 5 am and was due to be back a little later in the morning and had lawyered up b4 then, so he had an attorney with 10 hours of the murder.

A polygraph doesn't mean so much when it comes to trial, but not willingly taking a polygraph after your wife and unborn child is murdered and retaining an attorney hours after the brutal murders is very telling imo.

Also, the fact that he has not worked with LE, he has not appealed to the public, he has done absolutely nothing but run to Utah, should also be a huge indication that he is hiding something and would miserably fail the polygraph.

IMO he had everything to do with these murders and how anyone, friends or relatives, can believe he is innocent, or how he can talk his way out of this with them is mind boggling.

terminatrixator
11-13-2006, 12:32 AM
It's time to start harping on this subect. Come on Raven, prove up time......

Before you start a new relationship, that's suppose to be fairly seriously, why don't you prove up that you are not the murderer of Janet and your unborn child? I mean, everyone knows I believe 100% that you are the murderer of your wife and child, I even believe many friends and family members of yours believe it too, but now your thinking of bringing another family into the picture too?

Maybe you should take all your family, friends and all your future in-laws with you to North Carolina, take a polygraph, visit Law Enforcement.

I mean, we're not asking for a confession, because we all know that you don't have those kinda of b*lls to be man enough, you killed a defenseless pregnant woman, the mother of your child, that's not a man, that's a monster.

----
If you are dating Raven, think about it. Read everything here, read tearsforjanet. Read everything you can about Raven and realize, you are making a HORRIBLE mistake. He is charming, he says and does all the right things, it won't last, please get away while you got the chance!