Beautiful co-ed murdered.

[JellyBean]

A violent sicko killed a bright and beautiful Manhattan grad student, covered her entire face in duct tape and then wrapped her naked corpse in a blanket before dumping it on the side of a Brooklyn road, police said.

It appeared that Imette St. Guillen, a 24-year-old dean's-list student at John Jay College of Criminal Justice, was choked to death and may have been sexually assaulted.

http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/64304.htm

I can't find anything on this? :confused:

JellyBean

[IdahoMom]

JellyBean-

I found this:
http://news.bostonherald.com/localRegional/view.bg?articleid=128226

SNIP

A bright, beautiful Boston Latin School graduate was found apparently strangled and dumped in a New York City lot - her naked body covered by a blanket, her head entirely wrapped in duct tape, police sources told the New York Post.
Imette St. Guillen, 24, was last seen alive at a trendy Lower East Side night spot, the Pioneer Bar on the Bowery, early Saturday morning. Her body was found Saturday night after she was reported missing.
St. Guillen, a graduate student in forensic studies at John Jay University, was a 1999 graduate of the prestigious Boston Latin School, according to a friend’s Web site. She grew up on Francis Street in the Longwood medical area in a red triple-decker where she lived with her sister and her mother, a neighbor said.
“She was vivacious, beautiful,” said Theresa Parks, an elderly neighbor who watched St. Guillen grow up.
St. Guillen’s friends left her around 3 a.m. Saturday at the Pioneer Bar in lower Manhattan where the women had been partying, police sources told the New York Post. She was found 17 hours later in a vacant lot in an isolated area on Fountain Avenue in Brooklyn.
Police are awaiting autopsy results, but it appears she was strangled to death and possibly sexually assaulted, police sources told the newspaper. Her hands were bound behind her back.
Parks said St. Guillen’s mother, Maureen, a widow, is devastated.
“Her poor mother. My heart aches for her,” Parks said between sobs. She said St. Guillen’s mother was vacationing in Florida when she got the news and was en route to New York last night.
“She was just one of those great kids any mother would be proud of,” Parks said. ..

[IdahoMom]

A couple more details have unfolded:

http://www.wnbc.com/news/7501855/detail.html

SNIP

Her body was found at 8:30 p.m. Saturday, about 16 hours after she was last seen by friends at the Pioneer Bar in the Bowery.


Her roommate got worried when she didn't return home by Saturday evening. The woman's sister was called in Boston, and she drove to New York.


According to a report in The New York Post, an anxious cousin read about an unidentified body of a woman found in Brooklyn and called police.

[nanandjim]

What a sad, sad situation. I wonder if she met a guy that night and that's why she wanted to stay. Perhaps, her friends will be able to help with what happened.

[IdahoMom]

http://images.ibsys.com/2006/0227/7515391_240X180.jpg (http://www.thebostonchannel.com/health/7506453/detail.html#)

The Medical Examiner's office is saying she was strangled and suffocated:

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2006/02/27/medical_examiner_says_john_jay_college_student_was _strangled/

SNIP

A graduate student whose naked body was dumped on the side of a road had been strangled and suffocated, the medical examiner said Monday.
The death of Imette St. Guillen, who was from Boston, was ruled a homicide, medical examiner's spokeswoman Ellen Borakove said.

Police officers discovered St. Guillen's body at about 8:30 p.m. Saturday in Brooklyn's East New York section after an anonymous 911 caller directed them there. Someone had bound the 24-year-old victim's face, hands and feet with packaging tape before wrapping her in a quilt.

[jubie]

Hmmmmm. A graduate of forensic studies? A sad ironic coincidence or should her classmates or even a professor be looked at more closely? Did she give one of them the brush-off ....? :waitasec:


Jubie

[michelle]

This is terrible.......So sad.

[jubie]

Yes Michelle, it really is very sad indeed. I can't imagine her mother's heartache. I adore my kids and with all the sad things I see in the world I want to be one of those weird mums that keeps her kids at home forever. :(

[IdahoMom]

More about Imette at this link:

http://cbs4boston.com/local/local_story_058134742.html

[michelle]

Yes Michelle, it really is very sad indeed. I can't imagine her mother's heartache. I adore my kids and with all the sad things I see in the world I want to be one of those weird mums that keeps her kids at home forever. :(me too, i would put mine in a bubble and keep him in the house at all times, although that is not possible but i wish it were....

[strach304]

A quilt and packing tape? A moving truck? Possibly parked in the area and grabbed as she left the bar. My brother in law used to work for a professional moving company and they use quilts and have stacks of them in the truck as well as packing tape and other things but the trucks are large in the back.

I don't think a forensic student would use tape, too risky is adhering hair, fibers, etc. A quilt was described, not a blanket or tarp or other type covering. My hinky meter says she was assaulted in the truck and then dumped.

[Mygirlsadie]

I noticed in the article it says she was wrapped in a carpet. Don't know if that makes a diffrence or not vs. a quilt but it very well may. This was a very bright beautiful young lady who would of definately been a wonderful asset to this world. She is what we call back home as 'one of the good ones' . What a shame. Her poor poor parents they had a dream child. :( :( :( :(



More about Imette at this link:

http://cbs4boston.com/local/local_story_058134742.html

[IdahoMom]

Another story:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/28/nyregion/28dead.html

[IdahoMom]

And more here:

http://news.bostonherald.com/localRegional/view.bg?articleid=128345&format=&page=1

SNIP
NEW YORK - Investigators here are painstakingly retracing the final minutes of the life of would-be forensics expert Imette St. Guillen, a 24-year-old Boston Latin School graduate whose murder Saturday was so vicious it stunned even the Big Apple’s hardened homicide detectives.
“The sexual assault was not natural. The medical examiner said she had never seen anything like it,” a law enforcement source told the Herald.
The body of the strikingly beautiful St. Guillen was found Sunday afternoon in a desolate part of a blighted Brooklyn neighborhood called East New York. She had been gagged by a white gym sock stuffed down her throat, the Herald learned. Her ankles and hands were bound with plastic ties...
That friend told police yesterday that she called St. Guillen from a cab a few minutes later and St. Guillen said she was in “another bar.” That’s the last time anyone reports having spoken to her... St. Guillen, who lived on Manhattan’s toney Upper West Side, suffered cuts and scratches and was covered with bedsheets. She had been repeatedly sexually assaulted and her neck was purple with bruises, said the source, an NYPD investigator close to the case.
A medical examiner reported the cause of death was strangulation. A blood test showed St. Guillen was heavily intoxicated when she died, the source said.

[JellyBean]

Thanks IdahoMom :rolleyes:

This is just so sad :(

I hope they catch the sod who did this to her :mad:
JellyBean

[IdahoMom]

Thanks IdahoMom :rolleyes:

This is just so sad :(

I hope they catch the sod who did this to her :mad:
JellyBean
Me too. Poor girl! I read somewhere that her mother had been widowed for 16 years, and had worked hard to raise 2 good girls. Very sad.

[misterallgood]

I hope they catch this animal, and fast... because this really smacks of the kind of crime that gets repeated over time until the guy is caught. I thought that the moment I read the detail about the duct tape.

Statistically, serial murder is really actually pretty rare... but sometimes certain murders don't seem to have another explanation, outside of random evil.

Steve

[IdahoMom]

I hope they catch this animal, and fast... because this really smacks of the kind of crime that gets repeated over time until the guy is caught. I thought that the moment I read the detail about the duct tape.

Statistically, serial murder is really actually pretty rare... but sometimes certain murders don't seem to have another explanation, outside of random evil.

Steve
I thought this smacked of a serial killer, too...there was a sort of precise methodology to it.

[IdahoMom]

This is so bad!!!:eek: :eek: :eek: (http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/395508p-335275c.html)

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/395508p-335275c.html



A monster tortured vivacious Imette St. Guillen - brutally raping her, chopping her dark hair and stuffing a tube sock down her throat. Then he wrapped her face in tape and dumped her nude, bound body off a Brooklyn road.

The clear, plastic tape left the 24-year-old John Jay College of Criminal Justice student's pretty face frozen in a haunting expression of horror that shocked even hardened investigators - and made her virtually unrecognizable to her family, sources said. "It looks like she died in excruciating pain," said a source who saw the gruesome morgue photographs - also shown to the victim's sister, who had the grim task of identifying St. Guillen's battered corpse yesterday. "It seems a crime of passion," said another source. "Someone wanted to make her suffer and diminish her beauty."

[jubie]

This is so bad!!!:eek: :eek: :eek: (http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/395508p-335275c.html)

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/395508p-335275c.html



A monster tortured vivacious Imette St. Guillen - brutally raping her, chopping her dark hair and stuffing a tube sock down her throat. Then he wrapped her face in tape and dumped her nude, bound body off a Brooklyn road.

The clear, plastic tape left the 24-year-old John Jay College of Criminal Justice student's pretty face frozen in a haunting expression of horror that shocked even hardened investigators - and made her virtually unrecognizable to her family, sources said. "It looks like she died in excruciating pain," said a source who saw the gruesome morgue photographs - also shown to the victim's sister, who had the grim task of identifying St. Guillen's battered corpse yesterday. "It seems a crime of passion," said another source. "Someone wanted to make her suffer and diminish her beauty."


Oh :( Gosh, sometimes I wish I didn't read some of this stuff!! Does anyone else think its strange she stayed behind at the bar yet the friends that left couldn't say with who or why she chose to stay? I have a feeling she was with someone she knew (or rather 'thought' she knew) and becasue of her forensic ambitions as well as her beauty he killed her...


Just my hunble hunch on this one and I am far from in the know.


Jubie

[IdahoMom]

Oh :( Gosh, sometimes I wish I didn't read some of this stuff!! Does anyone else think its strange she stayed behind at the bar yet the friends that left couldn't say with who or why she chose to stay? I have a feeling she was with someone she knew (or rather 'thought' she knew) and becasue of her forensic ambitions as well as her beauty he killed her...


Just my hunble hunch on this one and I am far from in the know.

Jubie
I think it's a deranged serial killer. Someone "charming" and "handsome" on the outside, but sick and twisted inside.

[Mygirlsadie]

What in the hell is wrong with people? I just can't imagine hurting someone let alone doing this sick twisted torturous act. I wonder who the girl is that she left the bar with? And I hope and pray to God alls they tell her mother is that she was strangled. I think the details of what all happened to her daughter would kill her, then again if one of my children were murdered I can't honestly say I would want to go on living anyway.

[LvsAMystry]

I may be way off base but bear with me. Mention of a sexual assault that was "not natural." Mention that the taping of the face seemed to be about a deliberate attempt to destroy her beauty. Then finally the fact she was wrapped in a floral quilt.

I agree that it sounds like the potential work of a serial killer, which is typically male, but something about the above things make me wonder about an enraged jealous female. I wonder who she was with, did she meet a guy with a violent girlfriend or could a couple together be involved? It could also mean an ex also, I suppose, but the floral quilt makes me wonder about a female.

Either way, I feel sort of angry with her friends. As a female, you never leave an intoxicated friend to fend for herself in a bar at night in a city (or anywhere). I'm sure they are feeling guilty enough and don't need added blame, but still...

[concernedperson]

I think it's a deranged serial killer. Someone "charming" and "handsome" on the outside, but sick and twisted inside.

I think you are right. They always have some twisted aspect to their crimes. The clear tape used on her face to cause distortion is one grim clue. The body was staged with his MO.

[Mygirlsadie]

The thought of 'jealous' female also crossed my mind for some reason.



I may be way off base but bear with me. Mention of a sexual assault that was "not natural." Mention that the taping of the face seemed to be about a deliberate attempt to destroy her beauty. Then finally the fact she was wrapped in a floral quilt.

I agree that it sounds like the potential work of a serial killer, which is typically male, but something about the above things make me wonder about an enraged jealous female. I wonder who she was with, did she meet a guy with a violent girlfriend or could a couple together be involved? It could also mean an ex also, I suppose, but the floral quilt makes me wonder about a female.

Either way, I feel sort of angry with her friends. As a female, you never leave an intoxicated friend to fend for herself in a bar at night in a city (or anywhere). I'm sure they are feeling guilty enough and don't need added blame, but still...

[strach304]

They have a video tape of the woman she left the bar with I wonder if they have id'd her? They should definitely start there.

[Insomniac]

Hmmmmm. A graduate of forensic studies? A sad ironic coincidence or should her classmates or even a professor be looked at more closely? Did she give one of them the brush-off ....? :waitasec:


JubieGood point, sounds like the prep is someone who knew her, and very much like someone who might have longed for her.

[IdahoMom]

More here:

http://www.wfsb.com/Global/story.asp?S=4562975

SNIP

...One tape shows the victim, Imette St. Guillen, talking to a friend at about 3 a.m. Saturday outside Pioneer, a bar in the Bowery section. St. Guillen can be seen going back into the nightspot while the friend leaves by cab, police said.


Police officials said they had collected other video from security cameras in the area hoping they would offer more answers about St. Guillen's final hours. Investigators also were looking for clues at a Brooklyn diner where an anonymous 911 caller used a telephone to report that her body had been dumped on a desolate roadside.


.. Someone had bound the 24-year-old victim's face, hands and feet with packaging tape before wrapping her in a flower-print bedspread; investigators believe she had been raped.


The bedspread _ covered with pink, purple and red flowers and green leaves on a white background _ was the type used by budget motels and hotels, police said. Detectives were canvassing local motels and hotels to see if anyone there had information on St. Guillen or her assailant.

[Insomniac]

A quilt and packing tape? A moving truck? Possibly parked in the area and grabbed as she left the bar. My brother in law used to work for a professional moving company and they use quilts and have stacks of them in the truck as well as packing tape and other things but the trucks are large in the back.

I don't think a forensic student would use tape, too risky is adhering hair, fibers, etc. A quilt was described, not a blanket or tarp or other type covering. My hinky meter says she was assaulted in the truck and then dumped.I think they described the quilt as something you'd find in a hotel, she might have gone/been taken there and he dumped her in east New york. Besides the obvious hate and anger, it seems especially hateful and personal, cutting her hair, dumping her in the worst part of New York.

[nanandjim]

It is absolutely unreal that someone would do this to this young woman. Does this sound like a crime of opportunity?? It sounds more like she was intoxicated and went somewhere (perhaps a hotel) with someone that she thought that she could trust.

Perhaps, this woman who was seen leaving the bar with her told her about a party at some hotel/motel. What if Imetta passed out at the hotel and the woman just left her there?

To do everything that was done to this woman, you would need someplace like a hotel room to do it in. Perhaps, she was bound and gagged while she was passed out.

In any case, I surely hope that they find the murderer(s) and bring him/them to justice.

[concernedperson]

Nah, this is a serial killer.

[LvsAMystry]

New story on CBS4 in Boston and they have a picture of the quilt and the tags from it. The quilt is made by Springmaid, a popular brand. I'm sure they can track down the timeframe it would have been sold in and where etc... I don't think it's from a hotel IMO, but I guess you never know.

CBS4 story (http://cbs4boston.com/topstories/local_story_059061821.html)

[Jovin]

A quilt and packing tape? A moving truck? Possibly parked in the area and grabbed as she left the bar. My brother in law used to work for a professional moving company and they use quilts and have stacks of them in the truck as well as packing tape and other things but the trucks are large in the back.

I don't think a forensic student would use tape, too risky is adhering hair, fibers, etc. A quilt was described, not a blanket or tarp or other type covering. My hinky meter says she was assaulted in the truck and then dumped.

Excellent thoughts there, Strach. That's true!

[Jovin]

Thanks IdahoMom :rolleyes:

This is just so sad :(

I hope they catch the sod who did this to her :mad:
JellyBean

Thank God she DID have a lot of alcohol in her, to lessen the pain she must have endured. How horrific!

[strach304]

Who just happens to have packing tape, plastic ties etc. handy? Ted Bundy was carrying his set of tools and accessories when he was stopped. Wonder if they know what her hair was cut with? Possibly the same instrument that was used for the lacerations, box cutter maybe not a knife? Did anyone else notice the sign where she was found forbidding dumping?

[Insomniac]

Nah, this is a serial killer.Could be, but, it's the first type of killing like this that i've heard of in the tri-state area, meaning, no other women have been found like this, and the person didn't bury her or conceal the crime in that way.

[Insomniac]

New story on CBS4 in Boston and they have a picture of the quilt and the tags from it. The quilt is made by Springmaid, a popular brand. I'm sure they can track down the timeframe it would have been sold in and where etc... I don't think it's from a hotel IMO, but I guess you never know.

CBS4 story (http://cbs4boston.com/topstories/local_story_059061821.html)One of the papers stated that someone on the case was speculating about the blanket coming from a hotel. There's a poster on another forum who knew her and stated some of the details printed were wrong, so you may be right.

[Insomniac]

Thank God she DID have a lot of alcohol in her, to lessen the pain she must have endured. How horrific!That's true.

[misterallgood]

Could be, but, it's the first type of killing like this that i've heard of in the tri-state area, meaning, no other women have been found like this, and the person didn't bury her or conceal the crime in that way.I've been wondering if it is, too... but it is too early to tell, frankly. Serial murder is statistically rare, for one thing -- for another, even if it was a stranger-murder, if the person gets caught, and this was his only murder, he might then be a serial who never got off the ground. (FBI considers three murders over a period of time, with a distinct 'cooling-off' period between each to be indicative of 'classic' serial murder).

I'm not sure I understand the reference about burying her or concealing. The variety of signatures found between different serial killers is as broad as any other spectrum of human behavior. BTK left all his victims where he killed them for a while, then he kidnapped one of the later victims and disposed of the body -- that's why few people thought the later murders were connected until Rader told them. Serial killers change M.O. as it suits them. Ted Bundy killed young adult women in stealth, then his final known victim was a 12-year-old.

The scary thing about serial murder is how it actually doesn't stay fixed from person to person, other than issues of domination, manipulation, and control. This killer could put the duct tape on differently next time and elect to bury the victim, or leave them on someone's stoop, is all I'm saying.

Let's hope this person doesn't get a chance to make it to 'official' serial killer by FBI classification standards.

Steve

[Jovin]

At 9 pm. Eastern ...Rita Cosby ...on MSNBC had them on live. I missed the first ten minutes of the show, but when I turned it on, there they were! I can't imagine how they can even do an interview under those terrible circumstances, but I'm sure they want to appeal to the public as quickly as possible to help find the murderer(s) of their precious daughter and sister.

This show is going to replay again at 1pm Eastern (an hour and ten minutes from now) and I sure hope to see the part I missed.

I thought I'd let you all know in case you hadn't seen it the first time around. If I'm not mistaken, there might even be one more rerun of that show at about 3am my time, but I'm not sure.

[IdahoMom]

At 9 pm. Eastern ...Rita Cosby ...on MSNBC had them on live. I missed the first ten minutes of the show, but when I turned it on, there they were! I can't imagine how they can even do an interview under those terrible circumstances, but I'm sure they want to appeal to the public as quickly as possible to help find the murderer(s) of their precious daughter and sister.

This show is going to replay again at 1pm Eastern (an hour and ten minutes from now) and I sure hope to see the part I missed.

I thought I'd let you all know in case you hadn't seen it the first time around. If I'm not mistaken, there might even be one more rerun of that show at about 3am my time, but I'm not sure.
Thanks Jovin for the heads up! I will be sure to watch it!

[Jovin]

Thanks Jovin for the heads up! I will be sure to watch it!

No problem. I know I'm glad I saw it. It's so hard to even imagine how that sister could even speak after having to identify the body in the condition that they've described in the articles. Dear Lord! I'm sure these ladies will NEVER EVER be the same!

[Mygirlsadie]

She looks just like Laci Peterson to me. That blanket pattern does look like something from a 'cheap' motel . I bet there were a few people who were jealous of her. Her professor acted weird too. It could be that he is just a weird acting person I don't know.



New story on CBS4 in Boston and they have a picture of the quilt and the tags from it. The quilt is made by Springmaid, a popular brand. I'm sure they can track down the timeframe it would have been sold in and where etc... I don't think it's from a hotel IMO, but I guess you never know.

CBS4 story (http://cbs4boston.com/topstories/local_story_059061821.html)

[marly56]

I may be way off base but bear with me. Mention of a sexual assault that was "not natural." Mention that the taping of the face seemed to be about a deliberate attempt to destroy her beauty. Then finally the fact she was wrapped in a floral quilt.

I agree that it sounds like the potential work of a serial killer, which is typically male, but something about the above things make me wonder about an enraged jealous female. I wonder who she was with, did she meet a guy with a violent girlfriend or could a couple together be involved? It could also mean an ex also, I suppose, but the floral quilt makes me wonder about a female.

Either way, I feel sort of angry with her friends. As a female, you never leave an intoxicated friend to fend for herself in a bar at night in a city (or anywhere). I'm sure they are feeling guilty enough and don't need added blame, but still...
i agree with you my first thought was that the woman immette was last seen with, was a lure of some kind...also cutting another womans hair i a sure sign of jealousy.

[Researcher]

More here:
http://www.wfsb.com/Global/story.asp?S=4562975
SNIP
...One tape shows the victim, Imette St. Guillen, talking to a friend at about 3 a.m. Saturday outside Pioneer, a bar in the Bowery section. St. Guillen can be seen going back into the nightspot while the friend leaves by cab, police said.
Police officials said they had collected other video from security cameras in the area hoping they would offer more answers about St. Guillen's final hours. Investigators also were looking for clues at a Brooklyn diner where an anonymous 911 caller used a telephone to report that her body had been dumped on a desolate roadside.
.. Someone had bound the 24-year-old victim's face, hands and feet with packaging tape before wrapping her in a flower-print bedspread; investigators believe she had been raped.
The bedspread _ covered with pink, purple and red flowers and green leaves on a white background _ was the type used by budget motels and hotels, police said. Detectives were canvassing local motels and hotels to see if anyone there had information on St. Guillen or her assailant. Hope they can find the cabbie who drove her friend home. It appears he may have seen St. G., possibly noticed she had been drinking? Maybe drove back to Pioneer to follow St. G.....?

[Researcher]

"The twisted sex fiend who tortured, raped and killed a beautiful criminology student - covering her face with strips of clear tape - likely chose his prey at random, police sources warned yesterday. And based on the sicko's psychiatric profile, experts fear the mummy maniac may kill again.

Cops have ruled out men she dated in New York - including ex-beau Ryan Kocher, 22 - and in her hometown of Boston and believe she was murdered Saturday by a single attacker who only met her a few hours before he killed her, sources said....forensic profilers said the killer was likely acting out his sick fantasies - and warned that unless he is caught he'll try to murder again...."He may have killed before. This is pretty strong for a first offense," said Vernon Geberth, a former NYPD homicide commander who wrote a textbook on investigating sex-related murders. "You're dealing with a psychopathic sexual sadist. These people will kill again."

St. Guillen's battered face and nude body bore the signs of a sexually deviant murderer: She was raped, sodomized and suffocated. Her dark hair was chopped short, her genitals sliced and a tube sock jammed down her throat, sources said. The killer also covered her terrified face with vertical strips of clear packing tape from forehead to chin...he tape could be a sign that her attacker was acting out fantasies of bondage, control and rage. "You can still see the face," forensic psychologist Marta Weber said. "That's important. Why is the face being preserved? Is it to see the person in agony?"...ast seen at the Bowery's trendy Pioneer Bar at 3:40 a.m. Saturday. She had been drinking with a high school pal from Boston.

The polyester and cotton quilt, the type commonly found in motels, was likely made at least 10 years ago, according to its manufacturer... found St. Guillen's body laying in the weeds off Fountain Ave. shortly before 9 p.m. after an anonymous man called 911 from a phone in front of the Lindenwood Diner on Linden Blvd. Sources said cops plan to play the 911 tape for St. Guillen's family in case they recognize the caller's voice....

Cops have subpoenaed her cell phone records to try to retrace her movements.

Investigators also are trying to pull fingerprints from the tape and hope to have results as soon as today from tests conducted on DNA evidence."

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/395799p-335497c.html

[MrsMush99]

The polyester and cotton quilt, the type commonly found in motels, was likely made at least 10 years ago, according to its manufacturer... found St. Guillen's body laying in the weeds off Fountain Ave. shortly before 9 p.m. after an anonymous man called 911 from a phone in front of the Lindenwood Diner on Linden Blvd.

I know where this is. The Lindenwood Diner is about 20 min from where I live. I grew up in that area and have been to the diner. Pretty erie to read about places you know.

Here's a link to the diner's website: Diner (http://www.lindenwooddiner.com/)

Here's a map of the surroundring area Map (http://www.lindenwooddiner.com/directions.htm)

I can't locate fountain aveune on that map, but I know it's not too far from there and NOT a good area.

It's starting to sound like to me that either the person that called in found the body and does not want to be involved OR possibly the killer wanting her found, not out of guilt, not sure why. Still trying to work that one out in my head. This is huge here. On the local news everynight as the lead story.

[IdahoMom]

I know where this is. The Lindenwood Diner is about 20 min from where I live. I grew up in that area and have been to the diner. Pretty erie to read about places you know.

Here's a link to the diner's website: Diner (http://www.lindenwooddiner.com/)

Here's a map of the surroundring area Map (http://www.lindenwooddiner.com/directions.htm)

I can't locate fountain aveune on that map, but I know it's not too far from there and NOT a good area.

It's starting to sound like to me that either the person that called in found the body and does not want to be involved OR possibly the killer wanting her found, not out of guilt, not sure why. Still trying to work that one out in my head. This is huge here. On the local news everynight as the lead story.
Thanks MrsMush for your links. This case has me spooked too, and I'm on the other side of the country!
Whoever did this is very, very sick.

[MrsMush99]

Idaho,

I don't know why, but I'm thinking serial killer. I mean the duck tape, the cutting of the hair, it being random. It seems like this one is not going to stop, and it's almost like (if he made the call) that he's calling attention to his crime, sort of like, catch me if you can.

[IdahoMom]

Idaho,

I don't know why, but I'm thinking serial killer. I mean the duck tape, the cutting of the hair, it being random. It seems like this one is not going to stop, and it's almost like (if he made the call) that he's calling attention to his crime, sort of like, catch me if you can.I agree. And if it was him that made the call, he was proud, imo, of what he did. The crime is too ritualistic. I mean, cutting her private parts? Putting tape over her face? Cutting her hair? The guy didn't stop until he inflicted much pain on Imette. He liked, imo, what he was doing to her. (Maybe I have been watching too many CSI type shows:waitasec: )

That poor, poor girl. I would like to think she died quickly, but from all outward appearances, she was methodically tortured over a period of time. :(

[MrsMush99]

I read or heard somewhere this morning that LE thinks that he will strike again. Pretty scary considering I don't live to far from there. And the rest of my family lives there. Five minutes away from where she was found. I have a 20 year old cousin that lives there and a 14 yo cousin that walks home from the train by herself. Pretty freaking scary.

[MrsMush99]

Also, I want to add, that my 20 yo cousin went to John Jay but decided it wasn't for her.

[Mygirlsadie]

Could it be possible he strangled her first then did whatever it was he did to her?? Wishful thinking on my part I know.. :( The thought of torture is almost too much for me to even think about sometimes. How people can do this is beyond me.:mad:



I agree. And if it was him that made the call, he was proud, imo, of what he did. The crime is too ritualistic. I mean, cutting her private parts? Putting tape over her face? Cutting her hair? The guy didn't stop until he inflicted much pain on Imette. He liked, imo, what he was doing to her. (Maybe I have been watching too many CSI type shows:waitasec: )

That poor, poor girl. I would like to think she died quickly, but from all outward appearances, she was methodically tortured over a period of time. :(

[petra]

http://news.bostonherald.com/localRegional/view.bg?articleid=128540

[IdahoMom]

Could it be possible he strangled her first then did whatever it was he did to her?? Wishful thinking on my part I know.. :( The thought of torture is almost too much for me to even think about sometimes. How people can do this is beyond me.:mad:
Police are calling the perp a sexual sadist- he gets pleasure from hurting people, and seeing he's hurting them. :(

[cathieq]

The Pioneer Bar is located at 218 Bowery. I ran a map search on directions from 218 Bowery to an address on Fountain Avenue. The link below (if it works right) should take you to a map showing the path from the bar to an area close to where her body was found. I also did a map search on any and all bars in that area and cheap, budget motels. Alot of those motels could be ruled out only because you can only access the room via the interior of the motel/hotel. I would think it would be a motel which parking easily accessible to one's room. Otherwise the transfer of a body from room to car would be extremely risky.


Since I can't get the link to work, you could enter 218 Bowery in the starting address and it would bring up the same map.
(http://maps.yahoo.com/dd_resultnewaddr=218+Bowery&taddr=85+Fountain+Ave&csz)http://maps.yahoo.com/dd?taddr=85%20Fountain%20Ave&tlt=40.678127&tln=-73.875972&tname=Fountain+Avenue+Community+Dev&tcsz=Brooklyn+NY&tcountry=&tdesc=7182354011

or
http://maps.yahoo.com/dd_result?newaddr=218+Bowery&taddr=85+Fountain+Ave&csz=New+York&country=us&tcsz=Brooklyn+NY&tcountry=us&tname=Fountain+Avenue+Community+Dev&tdesc=7182354011


I also googled customer reviews on cheap affordable motels in that area. One statement repeated over and over is the you wouldn't want to go out after dark. One customer called it the Red Hook area.

One thing I question..in one of those articles I read it stated that her friend left her and the victim went back inside the Pioneer Bar. She called her a few minutes later and the victim was already in another bar...

[IdahoMom]

The Pioneer Bar is located at 218 Bowery. I ran a map search on directions from 218 Bowery to an address on Fountain Avenue. The link below (if it works right) should take you to a map showing the path from the bar to an area close to where her body was found. I also did a map search on any and all bars in that area and cheap, budget motels. Alot of those motels could be ruled out only because you can only access the room via the interior of the motel/hotel. I would think it would be a motel which parking easily accessible to one's room. Otherwise the transfer of a body from room to car would be extremely risky.


http://maps.yahoo.com/dd_resultnewaddr=218+Bowery&taddr=85+Fountain+Ave&csz=New+York&country=us&tcsz=Brooklyn+NY&tcountry=us&tname=Fountain+Avenue+Community+Dev&tdesc=7182354011

I also googled customer reviews on cheap affordable motels in that area. One statement repeated over and over is the you wouldn't want to go out after dark. One customer called it the Red Hook area.

One thing I question..in one of those articles I read it stated that her friend left her and the victim went back inside the Pioneer Bar. She called her a few minutes later and the victim was already in another bar...Thanks Cathie! Good work!
Regarding going to another bar, I heard the friend called after 3 minutes from the cab, then I read in another report it was 30 minutes*....
There have been conflicting reports on what Imette was wrapped in too. We now know it was a comforter/quilt-type blanket. But I have also read she was in a sheet, as well as a carpet.

*http://www.ny1.com/ny1/content/index.jsp?stid=1&aid=57461

snip

The friend left, but told police St. Guillen sounded fine when she talked to her on her cell phone about 30 minutes later. She says St. Guillen told her that she had gone to another bar in the area.

[dragonfly]

I think it is quite possible this perp was in the Pioneer Bar at the same time St. Guillen and her friend were there. He might have been sitting somewhere where he could make eye contact. He made it obvious he was watching and interested. Possibly if the opportunity was there and she was alone, maybe a trip to the restroom, he might have approach her said something that might have intrigue Imette like I would like to get to know you better when your friend is not around. Imette might have decided to return to the bar when her friend left in the cab to meet this mystery man. (I throw this out there because some thing similiar happened in my youth...many, moons ago. Looking back I was very lucky nothing happen to me.) Once she returned to the bar it would be easy for him to say "Let's get out of here, maybe hit another bar..."

[IdahoMom]

The NY Daily News has posted a list of unanswered questions. Here are a few:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime_file/story/395725p-335446c.html

The mystery every detective in the city would dearly love to solve begins at the Pioneer Bar on the Bowery.


Here are 40 questions veteran detectives not assigned to the case were asking yesterday.

When 24-year-old Imette St.Guillen left the bar early Saturday morning, was she a solitary figure in the big mirror to the left of the double black doors at the entrance?
Or was somebody with her and, if so, was it somebody she knew or somebody she had just met?
Did she turn uptown past other night spots such as the Bowery Poetry Project and the unfortunately named Crime Scene?
Or did she go downtown toward Canal St., perhaps turn onto darkened Spring St.?
Did she find another bar open at that hour?
If so, did she meet somebody there?
Did she encounter some psychopath so charming as to fool even a bright, aspiring criminologist who had volunteered at a rape counseling center?
Or was she snatched off the street by one or more predators who saw she was alone?
Or did she get into the wrong taxi?

[fran]

Yikes! This is a scary case. I'm thinkin' the way he left the body was a statement and he did want her found. All the questions posed by the detectives are right on, IMO.

IF it was a stranger (not connected to the crime), LE should tell him to call a particular hot line and he can stay anonymous if that's what he wants. Of course, they've probably already thought of that.

I personally feel it's somebody she met that night and they tricked her into going somewhere with them. Such a beautiful woman, smart, and much too young to die. She didn't deserve this and I so hope they're able to catch this sick SO#! IF he's not a serial killer already, he's workin' on it.

JMHO
fran

[cathieq]

Here is another map showing the path from Fountain Ave to the diner:

http://maps.yahoo.com/dd_result?newaddr=2870+Linden+Blvd&taddr=85+Fountain+Ave&csz=Brooklyn+NY&country=us&tcsz=Brooklyn%2C+NY+11208-2555&tcountry=us

I'm beginning to agree that the 911 caller was directly involved or an eyewitness. I don't think he just happened to see the body...he knew about the body.

[southerngirl]

New details emerge from this article...

"her head wrapped like a mummy with brown packing tape, her ankles bound with black shoelaces, and her hands secured with plastic ties, another police source said."

http://news.bostonherald.com/localRegional/view.bg?articleid=128540

So if the packing tape was brown, how could one see through it? I thought the killer used clear packing tape.. Also, hopefully the black shoe laces and plastic ties are other clues the detectives can track down.

[concernedperson]

New details emerge from this article...

"her head wrapped like a mummy with brown packing tape, her ankles bound with black shoelaces, and her hands secured with plastic ties, another police source said."

http://news.bostonherald.com/localRegional/view.bg?articleid=128540

So if the packing tape was brown, how could one see through it? I thought the killer used clear packing tape.. Also, hopefully the black shoe laces and plastic ties are other clues the detectives can track down.

Maybe the clear tape was underneath the brown packing tape. It was stated that her face was taped in a distorted fashion in earlier articles.

[jodierenee]

there is a type of light brown translucent packing tape...it is def. brown colored, but still see-through.

[concernedperson]

there is a type of light brown translucent packing tape...it is def. brown colored, but still see-through.

I just remembered that kind of tape and was coming back to post it. Thanks for the info.

[MrsMush99]

Does anyone remember Sarah Fox??

Link (http://www.washington-heights.us/news/archives/000639.html)

Now there is a suspect in that case, he was just convicted of assault in an unrelated charge. Link (http://www.gothamist.com/archives/2006/02/07/sarah_fox_murde.php)

But now I'm thinking, maybe it wasn't him after all. You never know. She was also a college student in Manhatten. I just find the coincendences interesting.

[MrsMush99]

Here's the link to the WS thread for Sarah Fox: Link (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7852&highlight=Sarah+Fox)

[PrayersForMaura]

Ok, I'm trying to visualize this horrible scene. This person must be one sicko. First, he stuffs a sock down her throat. Then he cuts her hair. Then he r*pes her. Then he cuts her down there with a knife or some sharp object. Then what, he tapes wraps her face in the plastic tape to capture the horrified look on her face? In what order does he do these guesome things? If he tapes he face, can it move? Will the horrified look on her face be captured before he tapes it, during, or after? What is this sick-os motive?

I hope he or she gets caught and soon and then he/she gets the death penalty. No one deserves what this poor victime went through. This is one horrific crime.

[PrayersForMaura]

Does anyone remember Sarah Fox??

Link (http://www.washington-heights.us/news/archives/000639.html)

Now there is a suspect in that case, he was just convicted of assault in an unrelated charge. Link (http://www.gothamist.com/archives/2006/02/07/sarah_fox_murde.php)

But now I'm thinking, maybe it wasn't him after all. You never know. She was also a college student in Manhatten. I just find the coincendences interesting.
I think you could be onto something.

[southerngirl]

Ok, I'm trying to visualize this horrible scene. This person must be one sicko. First, he stuffs a sock down her throat. Then he cuts her hair. Then he r*pes her. Then he cuts her down there with a knife or some sharp object. Then what, he tapes wraps her face in the plastic tape to capture the horrified look on her face? In what order does he do these guesome things? If he tapes he face, can it move? Will the horrified look on her face be captured before he tapes it, during, or after? What is this sick-os motive?

I hope he or she gets caught and soon and then he/she gets the death penalty. No one deserves what this poor victime went through. This is one horrific crime.

She was also raped and sodomized in an "unnatural way." Don't know how they mean exactly. Just hope this sicko left some DNA...

I also think he took her hair as a trophy.

[misterallgood]

She was also raped and sodomized in an "unnatural way." Don't know how they mean exactly. Just hope this sicko left some DNA...

I also think he took her hair as a trophy.Exactly -- as if there is a "natural way" for such things? Huh???

There was no semen found, apparently. Could a woman have done this, using implements, with the intention, at least partially, of making it look like a male attacker?

That just seems too crazy. I'm erring on the side of a very experienced male attacker organized enough to use condoms. I do think the hair was a trophy, but it was the detail that also made the crazy idea of a woman attacking Imette pop in my head. That, and the surprise factor, as well as Imette being petite.

Thanks for the interesting discussion.

Steve

[Jesstexas]

From the 40 questions post above:

"Is it at all possible the killer knew St. Guillen's academic pursuit and got a kick out of committing the most horrible of crimes on somebody studying crime?"


This was my first, gut, reaction when I read about this poor young woman's murder this morning. The fact that she was, apparently, so smart - maybe this psycho knew her from school and resented her for her terrific grades, her beauty. Maybe a guy she just knew in passing and met again at the bar that night? I just have a hard time believing that she would let her friend leave her there, all alone, at the bar unless she felt there was someone still there that she "knew." Would an extremely smart girl, no matter how drunk, do that? Maybe, in his "regular" life, the psycho had thought about it before, but this wasn't something he had concretely planned out, but that night he was drunk, she was drunk, one thing led to another, she rejected him, and he freaked. I definitely think it was the killer who called in her location - he didn't want to have to wait around for God knows how long for the cops to find her on their own.

I interpret the tape across the face thing as him needing her to SEE what he was doing to her. Maybe she was keeping her eyes closed and this angered him? The cutting of the hair - another thing that makes me think it was more personal than just a random girl off the street. Her hair meant something - either to her (and he knew that it did) or to him. A symbol of her beauty, I guess. I don't know - I hate trying to think like a psychopath.

The bedspread strikes me as something that may have come from a thrift store. Any Goodwills or Salvation Armys in that area?

[IdahoMom]

This is so chilling:

http://www.nationalledger.com/artman/publish/article_27263826.shtml

During a news conference in New York, forensic profilers claimed that the killer was likely acting out his sick fantasies. They warned that if he remains at large he'll likely murder again with the same "signature."

"This amount of violence and drama on the part of the killer tells me he's killed before. This is pretty much a murderer who's trying to create a warped identity," said Sidney Francis, a former NYPD homicide detective who's taught at the NYC police academy. Det. Francis believes the killer may be reveling in all the media attention to the case.

"He may have killed before. This is pretty strong for a first offense," said New York Daily News source Vernon Geberth, a former NYPD homicide commander who wrote a textbook on investigating sex-related murders. "You're dealing with a psychopathic sexual sadist. These people will kill again."

St. Guillen's battered face and naked body displayed the MO (modus operandi) of a sexually deviant murderer: She was raped, sodomized and suffocated. Her dark hair was chopped short, her genitals sliced and a tube sock was rammed down her throat, according to police sources.

The brutal murderer covered the victim's face with vertical strips of clear packing tape from forehead to chin. When removed, detectives and crime scene investigators found it difficult to identify her.

Some forensic experts said the tape could be a sign that her attacker was acting out fantasies of bondage, control and rage, according to a New York Daily News's forensic consultant

[Hbgchick]

Either way, I feel sort of angry with her friends. As a female, you never leave an intoxicated friend to fend for herself in a bar at night in a city (or anywhere). I'm sure they are feeling guilty enough and don't need added blame, but still...
Thank you. Please do not think I am blaming the victim or her friends - nobody deserves to have this happen to them - but when I was a little, little girl my mother cautioned me to NEVER be alone with someone you do not know well. My girlfriends and I would never leave another of us alone, it just wasn't done.

[JDB]

Whoever did this horrible crime knew what they were doing that is for sure.I hope maybe They got careless and left fingerprints on the tape.I have my doubts about the caller being the killer.Sounds more like me as a person that found something and called. And be thankful they did. Who knows how long she would have been there.

[MrsMush99]

I do think the hair was a trophy, but it was the detail that also made the crazy idea of a woman attacking Imette pop in my head. That, and the surprise factor, as well as Imette being petite.

Thanks for the interesting discussion.

Steve


OMG Steve, I thought the same EXACT thing when I heard that her hair was cut off. I thought that I was watching too many Lifetime movies. There was a true story where 2 girls killed one of their friends out of jealousy and they cut her hair.

[MrsMush99]

The bedspread strikes me as something that may have come from a thrift store. Any Goodwills or Salvation Armys in that area?

I don't know about that, I'll look into it to see if there are, but I will tell you this (and I'm not trying to be funny here) there is a lot of garbage in the area. It would not be out of the ordinary to see something like that along the highway or on the street.

[IdahoMom]

Fascinating article by Clint Van Zandt. I too think this has overtones of Silence of the Lambs:

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/11623311/

snip
Her murder was something out of Silence of the Lambs, but much worse if possible. Imette St. Guillen was a 24-year-old John Jay College graduate student in the school's Criminal Justice program. She would have graduated in two months and then sought a career identifying criminals by studying the crime scenes they left behind. Now it is her crime scene that has police baffled, and the only known witness, St. Guillen herself, has been silenced forever...

It's been reported that some of her fingernails were broken and her hands were bloodied, suggesting that even in her believed state of intoxication that she fought for her life, a fight she would ultimately loose. At 5' 2", 110 pounds, St. Guillen had an athletic build from her many high school and college sport activities, to including swimming and volleyball. The local NYC medical examiner suggested that this was one of the most horrific murders she had seen, this in a city known for horrific murders. It appears that someone not only wanted to kill St. Guillen, they wanted her to suffer before she died. Basically she was tortured as could only be portrayed in some B grade of slasher movie, the type that Hollywood makes that attract individuals with bizarre sexual fantasies. But Hollywood, of course, does not believe that it contributes to bringing such fantasies to life. You see, slasher type of movies can provide some with the psychological, emotional and visual bridge between an individual's fantasies and his acting out of such fantasies, but that's another issue.

From a profiling perspective, St. Guillen's killer or killers exhibited anger and control -- who ever murdered her wanted to totally dominate another person, someone to act out their rage and anger on, and someone to totally degrade as both a woman and a human being. Her killer(s) certainly succeeded. Whether St. Guillen was kidnapped or simply left a bar with the wrong person, the rest of her night had to have been a living hell with her praying for rescue or death.

Some speculate that it may have been the killer himself (a male voice) that called 911 at 8:30 PM on Saturday night from the local dinner, one that was known to be a place that John Gotti, Jr., made telephone calls from. The caller reported a body alongside the road on Fountain Street in Spring Creek Park, a location where the mob is believed to have disposed of bodies. Because her body was along side the road, authorities must consider whether her assailant wanted her to be found, or had quickly dumped her in the open because he feared someone would see him...

[MrsMush99]

There is a good will 15 minutes away:

Link (http://locator.goodwill.org/cgi-bin/mqtripplus.exe?DetailedNarr=1&OSAL=%24%5B1-81%5DFOUNTAIN+AVE%24%24BROOKLYN%24NY%2411208%24KIN GS+COUNTY%24US%24%24szCensusBlockId%3A%24C%24szAdd rHi%3A81%24ulFIPS%3A36047%24%240%240%240.000000%24 406791%24-738763%24&DPC=null&ADDR_DESTINATION=1100+FULTON+ST&CITY_DESTINATION=BROOKLYN&STATE_DESTINATION=NY&ZD=11238&DCC=US&results_display_mode=overview&DetailedNarr=0&x=61&y=13)

That's the closest one I could find. I doubt that the killer would go to a store to purchase a quilt. That would be a witness. Although you never know.

[MrsMush99]

Regarding the quilt. There is a motel not too far from where she was found. It's called the Crossbay Motor Inn. Link (http://yellowpages.superpages.com/supermaps/mapinit.jsp?SRC=google&C=Hotels&T=Brooklyn&S=NY&PP=N&CID=00000509745&LID=2038701216&map.x=212&map.y=125&level=8&lat=040671321&lng=-073842847&POI1lat=040671321&POI1lng=-073842847&POI1name=Crossbay+Motor+Inn&streetaddress=137+-27+Cross+Bay+Blvd&city=Ozone+Park&state=NY&zip=11001)
When I heard that it looked like a quilt from a motel, I thought of this one. It's also close to the the Lindenwood diner. If you look to the left of the map you will see Linden Blvd. That's where the diner is located.

[MrsMush99]

Another thing I would like to add is that from the Bowery to where she was found is a good 30 minutes. So the murderer would have need a car.

[dragonfly]

Another thing I would like to add is that from the Bowery to where she was found is a good 30 minutes. So the murderer would have need a car.
I wonder if the killer might have had a van complete with a kill kit that might have included the quilt.

[strach304]

MrsMush99, you say 30 minutes from the bowery to the dump spot so if you can since you're from that area tell me the distance from the Bowery to the diner and if they've published Imette's address or area she lived in what would be the distance say from her house to the Bowery and her house to the dump site?
I think the idea that the quilt may have come from the garbage is a valid possibilty especially since it would not be tied or traced back to the killer. Some aspects of the crime show he was prepared whereas others look like spur of the moment actions. Ted Bundy comes to mind because he had an assortment of items he carried in his car that he prepared in advance for his killings.

[strach304]

I wonder if the killer might have had a van complete with a kill kit that might have included the quilt.

Had to have a vehicle considering where she was dumped so a van with a sliding side door fits with the way she was dumped. I theorized early on that it was a moving truck because of the tape, quilt and plastic ties.

[JDB]

The brown packing tape. reminds me of the tape you get from U-Haul when moving.

[MrsMush99]

Strach, from the Bowery to the diner is about the same. Fountain Ave (the dump site) is only about 1/4 mile from the diner. I haven't seen Imette's address published as soon as we can find out I would let you know how far it is.

I've seen a couple of people mention Ted Bundy. I was actually speaking with my father about that today and I did mention Bundy also. I'm convinced that this is a serial killer. And I think Sarah Fox may also have been murdered by a serial killer. She was posed and had a stick in a private areas with rose petals spread around her body. She was also a college student in Manhatten.

[dragonfly]

http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/64455.htm

March 1, 2006 -- Shortly before beautiful Manhattan grad student Imette St. Guillen was brutally murdered, her best friend called her to try to coax her into going home and ending her night of partying.


snip>

In the chilling telephone exchange, Imette told her closest pal, Claire Higgins, that she wasn't ready to call it quits partying, investigative sources said.

Claire had just taken a cab home from the Pioneer Bar on the Bowery, where she and Imette had spent 4 1/2 hours drinking and socializing.

But when Claire got home, she felt uneasy about leaving her friend and called her, a source said. Their brief exchange didn't make her feel any easier.

Where are you?" Claire asked.

I'm in another bar," Imette replied on her cellphone over loud chatter and music in the background.


"When are you going home?" Claire asked. The young woman — who would have turned 25 tomorrow — was wrapped in a white, commercial-grade bedspread bearing a Monet-like design of red, pink and purple flowers surrounded by green leaves, possibly from a cheap motel.

"Later. I'll be home later," her pal said.

snip>


The pair — buddies since their high-school days at the elite Boston Latin School — hung out together most of the day and then, at about 10 p.m., decided to go out and party.

They went directly to the Pioneer, where they drank and chatted with other patrons — neither of them talking or spending time with anyone in particular, sources said.

"They were just out having fun," one source noted.

But at 2:30 a.m., Claire, a city high-school English teacher, wanted to go home.

The two left the bar — and, as a surveillance videotape revealed — they began debating outside about whether to split up Claire wound up hopping into a cab and returned to her apartment, never again to see her friend alive.

snip>


Investigators have been checking hotels and laundries that do dry cleaning for hotels in an effort to find out where the quilt came from — and where Imette may have spent her last hours.

The quilt, packing tape, wire and shoelaces are being examined for prints and DNA, and tests are being run to see if there's any evidence of the killer's skin under Imette's torn fingernails.

Sources said no semen was found.

In addition to Claire, detectives have interviewed a number of Imette's friends.

Among them were two of her male acquaintances — one a former boyfriend from Boston, the other a fellow student at John Jay.

Both were ruled out as suspects, officials said. St. Guillen's sister and mom insisted that if there had been someone stalking her or been obsessed with her in the past, they would have known.

[cathieq]

One article said this was the last bar she was seen at, The Falls:

http://www.thefallsnyc.com/
Check out this link in the photo section:
http://www.thefallsnyc.com/gallery/spring2005/index.html
Pic DSC0201. Does that look like her?

On this map you can see the locations of both bars (The Pioneer and The Falls)
http://maps.yahoo.com/dd_result?newaddr=218+Bowery&taddr=218+Lafayette&csz=New+York%2C+NY+10012-4203&country=us&tcsz=New+York&tcountry=us

Then on this one, the path from The Falls to Fountain Avenue:
http://maps.yahoo.com/dd_result?newaddr=218+Lafayette&taddr=85+Fountain+Avenue&csz=New+York%2C+NY+10012-4203&country=us&tcsz=Brooklyn%2C+NY+10012-4021&tcountry=us&terr=4005

So cross Brooklyn Bridge and follow Atlantic Avenue to Fountain Avenue.

[bnhall]

I know that JCPenney and Wal-Mart sell Springmaid things. I haven't been able to find if the bedspread is still manufactured (because it looks like something out of the 90's) and if so, which stores would currently carry it. It could be that it is something sold only to hotels or it could be on the open market. I'm guessing the police already know the answer to whether or not it came from a hotel, since the release of the picture would allow for quick identification. If a bedspread was stolen, I'm sure the hotel has contacted the police in connection with this. That's what leads me to think that it was either acquired at a thrift store or bought from a big box store where there would be little or no trace. It reminds me of a bedspread my grandma had when I was growing up (20 years ago or so) so it could have come from a box in his attic.

[bbmcrae]

Oof, this is creepy and horrible. I've been to both those bars, btw. It seems likely she met someone who talked her into leaving with him. And, yeah, it's more than likely IMO it's a "he".

It's weird, but NYC is so generally safe nowadays I feel like "these things just don't happen here". Weird.

[strach304]

Thanks MrsMush99, is that diner an all night food place? I'm thinking she could have been coaxed to go eat, I used to do that with my friends when we would go out clubbing.
Anyone notice in the most recent news report that it said they believed she was killed shortly before the phone tip? It looks like there's a good possibilty that it was the killer who made the call. MrsMush99 are you familiar with the area the body was dumped in? Any residents, stores, restarants close by?
Says he used a ligature to strangle her.

[Mygirlsadie]

ok call me dumb dumb but what is a ligature?



Thanks MrsMush99, is that diner an all night food place? I'm thinking she could have been coaxed to go eat, I used to do that with my friend whens we would go out clubbing.
Anyone notice in the most recent news report that it said they believed she was killed shortly before the phone tip? It looks like there's a good possibilty that it was the killer who made the call. MrsMush99 are you familiar with the area the body was dumped in? Any residents, stores, restarants close by?
Says he used a ligature to strangle her.

[concernedperson]

ok call me dumb dumb but what is a ligature?

It could be a belt, a rope, a wire etc. that is used to strangle.

[Mygirlsadie]

Oh ok...thank you! :(



It could be a belt, a rope, a wire etc. that is used to strangle.

[MrsMush99]

Thanks MrsMush99, is that diner an all night food place? I'm thinking she could have been coaxed to go eat, I used to do that with my friends when we would go out clubbing.
Anyone notice in the most recent news report that it said they believed she was killed shortly before the phone tip? It looks like there's a good possibilty that it was the killer who made the call. MrsMush99 are you familiar with the area the body was dumped in? Any residents, stores, restarants close by?
Says he used a ligature to strangle her.

Yes, it is a 24 hour diner. Not too familiar with the area the body was found. I can tell you that it is NOT a good area. I wouldn't go there alone day or night. I would volunteer to go take pictures of the area, but I'm a chicken. Sorry. I might be able to coax my sister into going. She tough, sooooo not like me. LOL

[NK57]

This is big news here in NY. Police are leaning towards this being a serial killer. Ugh.

Nancy

[WISCer]

This is big news here in NY. Police are leaning towards this being a serial killer. Ugh.

Nancy


I'd be really shocked if they weren't. I really don't believe this is the first murder, either.....just the first found or the first found posed/displayed is such a horrific way.

[PonderingThings]

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/11623311/

Lots more details about the abuse she suffered here... the "unnatural way" is perhaps the marks or wounds on her genitals. This is horrific, I hope they catch this sicko real soon! http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/smilies/mad.gif

[MrsMush99]

Another thing I just found out from my Aunt who heard it on the news that the phone which this guy called from is FREE at a certain time and the police think he called from there knowing that it's free so he probably knows the area the diner is in.

[fran]

With both the Fox case and Imette's case, LE said it appeared the killer had killed before. Plus, if you look at the description of how they were found posed, Fox with tulip pedals and tree branches,........and Imette wrapped in a bedspread covered with flower pedals and leaves, IMO, they are too similar to ignore.

There are probably other victim's out there, they may not have been found or not connected.

I also believe it was probably the killer himself who contacted LE. He wanted to be sure LE found her before it was too late to be apparent of what he had done in distorting her face.

IMO, Imette probably made sure she scratched him really good so that if there was no seman evidence, the DNA will be under her fingernails.

This is a horrible crime. I hope they catch whoever it is.

Bless her family and friends in their time of grief.....

JMHO
fran

[michelle]

This case is so frightening, I cant believe what that poor girl went through. I watched her family last night on Rita, Its heartbreaking....

[WISCer]

There have been so many terrifying details of this murder released....it makes me shudder to think just what evidence the police are withholding.

[michelle]

There have been so many terrifying details of this murder released....it makes me sudder to think just what evidence the police are withholding. I know, it actually scares me....My DH is out of town all week and i will be sleeping on the couch. I get freaked easy, and this case is just horrific!!!!!! I hope they find this psycho soon!!!

[Insomniac]

I know, it actually scares me....My DH is out of town all week and i will be sleeping on the couch. I get freaked easy, and this case is just horrific!!!!!! I hope they find this psycho soon!!!Maybe you should call a friend or family, I know what it's like to be home alone, even if you're reletively safe.

[Mygirlsadie]

Michelle i'm like you I get freaked really easy too. I go to bed and sleep just fine when hubby is home but when he is deployed or something I am on the couch fighting to stay awake so in case I 'hear something'...it's terrible to live this way but things like what happened in this case is just so terrifying. I don't think I would of lived long because I get so scared that I probably would of died of a heart attack.


I know, it actually scares me....My DH is out of town all week and i will be sleeping on the couch. I get freaked easy, and this case is just horrific!!!!!! I hope they find this psycho soon!!!

[sleuthin4fun]

I have never been afraid to be home alone. I grew up in a military house hold so, it was not uncommon for my father to be gone months at a time. Now, with my husbands business he may be gone for a week every other month. I was never afraid until his last trip; I had one of those dreams where you can't seem to wake up, my heart was racing, I was breathing heavy and I felt panicked n, next thing I knew I heard what sounded like someone banging on a window; I woke with a jolt. No one was there, needless to say I did not go back to sleep. I had four more nights to go so, I had a date every night with a little "Mikes hard lemonade". I'm not a drinker so, this did the trick.

[Sniffy38]

Wow - I'm sure glad I checked here. I've been afraid to be alone all of my life. I suppose it could be a phobia. After my late husband passed away, I knew I would be all alone and had to make a decision. If someone were to break in, would I choose to fight or be a victim. For some reason, I decided I would fight. I bought a .38 and joined the NRA for training. It was a 2 week course and taught everything from gun cleaning, naming every part of the gun, gun safety and finally, target practice and proper technique. I was living in Oregon at the time and was able to get a Concealed Weapons Permit. I bought a special purse to carry my gun and it went with me when I had to travel. I slept with "my friend" under my pillow every night.

Years later, I am remarried and live on the E. Coast. They have much tougher gun laws here, so I can no longer carry. The only times that I've had to be alone are hubby's once yearly trek to Myrtle Beach for a week of golf. During that time, I take my cellphone to bed and lock the bedroom door. I leave the TV on, turned very low, and allow myself to sleep - usually with a light on. It is a very uneasy sleep, but still, I get some rest. Two weeks ago, we got a beautiful Beagle, and hopefully, she would sound an alarm.

I envy those who are never frightened to be alone. Wish I could have been so fortunate.

[Tricia]

Have they shown a picture of the quilt? I read somewhere that LE thinks the quilt may be the key to finding the killer.

[Insomniac]

Have they shown a picture of the quilt? I read somewhere that LE thinks the quilt may be the key to finding the killer.Yes. The papers and the news have had fairly good pictures of it.

[MrsMush99]

Tricia,

You can go to this link:Link (http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/395799p-335497c.html) Scroll down and bit and you will see a pic of it.

[jttnewguy]

I'm sure the police are putting together a profile of the killer(s), but here are my personal thoughts (which may well be wrong, but I'll give it a shot). I'm no expert, but I've read many of John Douglas' books and spent a few years working in the criminal justice system, which doesn't make me anything near an expert or anything, but I might know more than some. Everything here is based on what I've read so far in the press, which may not be complete or accurate, so if new facts come out, all of this might go right out the window. Anyway, here's my very amateurish analysis of who the killer is:

(1) The killer is what the FBI calls an "organized offender." We know that the victim was transported some distance from where she disappeared to where her body was found, so the killer has access to a car or a vehicle, which means he's got some money, possibly a job, and enough skills to drive (i.e., he's not a frothing-at-the-mouth loonie and can read well enough to get a drivers license and maneuver around NY in a car). In other words, he can function in society at some level of competence, and isn't a raving lunatic. On the other hand, he's not really successful at a career, he's probably an underachiever or even a failure (but one who appears functional), which is one of the reasons for his deep anger.

(2) The body was found not long after the phone call was placed but more than 16 hours after the victim disappeared, so the killer was able to keep the victim (either alive or dead) for sixteen hours, which means he's got access to a private place which probably is either isolated or soundproofed in some way (probably not a van because the sounds would carry), and where he is comfortable and knows he's got both privacy and time without someone accidentally walking in on him. Suggests a home, apartment, access to an abandoned building (are there any in that area?), or possibly a tractor-trailer. Again, further suggesting that the killer has money and/or a job of some kind.

(3) The killer is almost definitely a male, or possibly part of a team, since he was physically powerful enough able to abduct and restrain her for some time despite evidence that she was athletic and fought back desperately (broken fingernails).

(4) The killer is probably in his mid-20s or possibly early 30s, but most likely 20's. The odds are slim that the victim, a graduate student (age 23 or so), would go anywhere with someone as young as a teenager that late at night, plus teenagers usually aren't mature or orgranized enough and don't have enough control over their emotions to keep her for 16 hours, plus they aren't likely to have access to a car and a safe place to commit the crime. He might be in his 30s if he's killed before, but if no other similar crimes have been committed anywhere in the US for the past few years, then the killer is probably not in his mid- to late-thirties yet, simply because it's unlikely that someone this violent and deranged could have gotten to be that old without committing a crime yet, especially a sex crime, and in your 30's your libido starts to fade making it highly unlikely that a predator would commit his very first such frenzied sex crime at such an advanced age.

(5) Probably a white male, simply because the victim would more likely accompany someone of her own age/ethnicity late at night, and bystanders are more likely to watch, notice and report a young white woman being bothered by an African-American in the middle of the night. Also, she herself would be more likely to notice and worry about a black man following her or watching her before the attack than a white guy.

(6) The killer is probably not married, since the extreme violence he showed reflects such a deep hatred and anger toward women that he would be unlikely to have a successful long-term relationship with one. He also is probably a loner with few friends if any, even male, since in view of the highly ritualistic way the crime was committed (see below), he spends a lot of time thinking and fantasizing and he would be unlikely to be able to mask his hatred and deviant tendencies for very long from those close to him. However, this does not make him an outright weirdo since he is organized enough to have a job/car, he may even appear to be a normal "nice" guy to co-workers or neighbors who don't know him very well.

(7) The killer might be connected in some way with the moving industry (for the reasons stated by others in this thread, brown packing tape, quilts, etc.).

(8) The killer recently experienced what the FBI calls an emotional "stressor" in his life, such as losing a job, the death of a parent, the breakup of a relationship. Although he probably walks around all day with hatred toward women in his heart, something happened that made him unusuallly angry and triggered him to commit this particular crime on this particular day as opposed to any other day.

(9) The crime was highly ritualistic, i.e., it contained overly extravagant elements (cutting the hair, taping the face with transparent tape, cutting the genitals) that suggests that he's been fantasizing about this for some time, probably collects and watches violent S&M pornography. Also, the fact that he had the materials to do this -- plastic ties, two different kinds of duct tape, ligatures -- indicates that he either targeted or stalked her, or if his selection of her was random, he was actually prepared to commit a crime well in advance and was probably trolling for a suitable victim when he ran into her. Also, killers this ritualistic almost always keep trophies from the crime as a means of remembering and replaying it, sort of the way that normal people buy souvenirs to remember their vacations. So, when the police have a suspect, there will likely be evidence still in his possession (her clothes, jewelry, photos, vidoetapes, things like that).

(10) When I first read about the cutting of the hair and the obscuring of the face by tape, my initial thought was that the killer may have known the victim in some way. There is some disagreement in the media about whether the tape was transparent, how much of her face was covered, etc. so this may or may not be the case here, but typically (but not always), when a killer feels the need to dehumanize a victim by hiding her face or changing her appearance, it's because he sees her not entirely as a distant thing or an object, but recognizes her as a person who evokes some emotional response in him and makes him feel bad or guilty enough that he has to change her appearance to make himself feel better about what he's doing to her. This may also be why he wrapped the body in a blanket, sort of a symbolic protective act (a complete stranger would likely not care enough about the body to wrap a blanket around it, especially since doing so takes extra effort and time, he would just dump it like a piece of trash). Doesn't mean that they were friends, it could just be that he saw her around the neighborhood, but at least there was some levelof familiarity that made him feel the need to change her identity during the crime. If it was the killer who called the police afterwards to report the body (as opposed to a passerby), this would be why -- he felt slightly guilty afterwards and didn't want her to lie there in the bushes, rotting for weeks.

Anyway, those are my thoughts, for better or worse. It'll be interesting to see what the police profilers come up with and compare.

[IdahoMom]

Wow, jttnewguy! What a post! Very well thought-out, and it makes perfect sense to me.


Welcome.

[MrsMush99]

Wow, jttnewguy! What a post! Very well thought-out, and it makes perfect sense to me.


Welcome.


Makes sense to me too. Welcome, jttnewguy. You did wonder if there were abandoned buildings in that area, my guess would be yes. It's a very very rough neighborhood (where she was dumped). Like I said in an earlier post I would never go there alone, day or night. I remember driving through that area about 15 years ago and it was scary then, I can only imagine how it is now. I actually called my sister and asked her if it was a bad area just to make sure I wasn't giving out wrong information and she confirmed for me that it was.

[fran]

Wow! Thanks Jttnewguy. I can see you are going to be a great source and asset to our community. :clap:

JMHO
fran

[Insomniac]

Jttnewguy,

Great assessment.

[Tricia]

Tricia,

You can go to this link:Link (http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/395799p-335497c.html) Scroll down and bit and you will see a pic of it.


Thanks my dear.

I knew the WS members would be on top of it :dance:

[Tricia]

Please add my welcome to WS jttnewguy. Great post.

I have a feeling they are going to catch this guy. It will be interesting to see how close you are to the truth. You could easily be right on the money.

[bykerladi]

Moderators, since this case will likely continue to heat up and is probably the beginning of a terrifying serial killer, perhaps this thread should be moved to a different forum?

[strach304]

I had two detectives show up at my house today one was from New York the other a detective in my state accompanied him. I had sent in a tip and they couldn't reach me by phone so a detective was sent here, I think they thought something happened to me and the state detective asked me if I was in danger which I'm not. I'm afaid I wasn't much help at the time when they showed up because I have epilepsy and had just had a seizure and the after affects are confusion, pain, exhaustion, etc. The detective in New York called me and from what I can remember I was incoherent and confused. He sent me another e-mail and I responded explaining what happened. To be honest I had no idea they would come here and at first it scared me then on top of that my face got messed up and I didn't realize it so who knows what they thought. They were very nice though. I think what upset me right off was when he said he was a detective from New York so I was thinking it was a long way to come and add to it they think this is a serial killer so when they couldn't get in touch with me I think they expected the worst.

[jttnewguy]

I had two detectives show up at my house today one was from New York the other a detective in my state accompanied him. I had sent in a tip and they couldn't reach me by phone so a detective was sent here, I think they thought something happened to me and the state detective asked me if I was in danger which I'm not. I'm afaid I wasn't much help at the time when they showed up because I have epilepsy and had just had a seizure and the after affects are confusion, pain, exhaustion, etc. The detective in New York called me and from what I can remember I was incoherent and confused. He sent me another e-mail and I responded explaining what happened. To be honest I had no idea they would come here and at first it scared me then on top of that my face got messed up and I didn't realize it so who knows what they thought. They were very nice though. I think what upset me right off was when he said he was a detective from New York so I was thinking it was a long way to come and add to it they think this is a serial killer so when they couldn't get in touch with me I think they expected the worst.
OK, I'm sorry, but I'm a little confused by your post....did you send a tip in about this particular murder? Didn't it just happen like yesterday, with the first media reports published today, so how did you get involved so quickly (I"m not sure where you live, but based on what you wrote it must be kind of far from NY)? .....:banghead:

[misterallgood]

I'm sure the police are putting together a profile of the killer(s), but here are my personal thoughts (which may well be wrong, but I'll give it a shot). I'm no expert, but I've read many of John Douglas' books and spent a few years working in the criminal justice system, which doesn't make me anything near an expert or anything, but I might know more than some. Everything here is based on what I've read so far in the press, which may not be complete or accurate, so if new facts come out, all of this might go right out the window. Anyway, here's my very amateurish analysis of who the killer is:

(1) ...JTTNewGuy -- dead-on analysis, in my book. In fact, I don't know why I'm commenting, except that it is really rare that I'm so completely in agreement with another poster on any forum about this sort of thing. Bet what the PD profilers do come up with will jibe with your analysis almost point-for-point.

Thanks -- look forward to more posts by you.

Steve

[IdahoMom]

OK, I'm sorry, but I'm a little confused by your post....did you send a tip in about this particular murder? Didn't it just happen like yesterday, with the first media reports published today, so how did you get involved so quickly (I"m not sure where you live, but based on what you wrote it must be kind of far from NY)? .....:banghead:Hi jttnewguy-
Actually, this case broke a few days ago, with the crime committed Saturday, February 25th. Reference the NY Post, February 27:

http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/64304.htm

The body of the petite, raven-haired beauty was discovered on Fountain Avenue near the Belt Parkway in East New York at about 8:30 p.m. Saturday, cop sources said.

[Beyond Belief]

Do you think she had a complete conversation with this guy about her occupation? Maybe some of her views pissed him off...and here we are, she becomes a victim of her own passion.

[nanandjim]

...those are my thoughts, for better or worse. It'll be interesting to see what the police profilers come up with and compare.
Good post! I also think that the guy has seen her around. I was thinking that she hung out at certain bars where the young crowd goes. Maybe, this guy has seen her before and even talked to her. She may have recognized him and felt safe with him. Perhaps, she was even attracted to him and left with him on her own accord. If this is the case, it is a very scary thought...that a guy could be so normal looking, even attractive, yet be such a monster. :eek:

Heck, who knows, maybe the guy was pretending to be a college student and really was just hanging out at the places where the college kids hang...sort of like Ted Bundy...

[docwho3]

I am thinking maybe someone connected with a self storage place but maybe not one in a place where sounds might carry, not one of the really busy places. Some of those places also sell the tape and other materials for packing things for being moved or shipped. I would think age 25 to 39 (possibly older but not younger.) Maybe more of a Ted Bundy approach than a BTK since he did not hide in her home to get her but met her "out in the field". Might be of similar skin color as the victem since that is statisticly the odds last time I did any reading on the subject.

This has a planned feel to it so far as the crime is concerned but the victem was probably generic who met certan criteria (a woman alone of certain size etc.) She may not have been his first choice of victem but he was running out of night and maybe didn't want to leave empty handed. He had probably prowled a pre established circuit of places that night in search of a victem.

Might be using a younger person as a helper/partner but I sort of doubt it in this case. Considering what time of night it was I wonder what hook was used to lull the victem.

[jttnewguy]

The more I think about it, the more I believe that the fact that the killer used "plastic ties" to bind the victim's legs has to be an important clue. I'm a pretty knowledgeable person, but I wouldn't know where to buy plastic ties like that. The only plastic ties I've ever seen are the small ones about 6 inches long that you use to close garbage bags, much too small to wrap around two legs. I've also seen those thin smooth ones that plumbers and electricians sometimes use to tie PVC tubing, but I wouldn't know where to buy those and I'm certainly not comfortable manipulating them properly.

And even if such ties are freely available, there's the question of why the killer chose to use them as opposed to, say, rope. In general, when you do a job that might be difficult, you go with what you know works, with what's comfortable to you. If I had to tie someone up, the first thing that I would think of would be rope, since rope is familiar to me. I might use telephone cords, because my friend works for the local phone company and I see them lying around his house all the time. My point is, these things are familiar to me, they are part of my daily life experience. I wouldn't think of plastic ties or packaging tape. Even though I've used packaging tape to seal boxes, it wouldn't be the first thing that popped into my head, partly because I use it only rarely and partly because I wouldn't be sure that they'd be strong enough.

Yet plastic ties and packaging tape are familiar and comfortable to the killer for some reason, more so than other things like rope, and he knows that they'll work, suggesting he's got plenty of experience with them somehow. The killer might have encountered them in a job that he had where he had to use them a lot, so figuring out where you can get those ties might be a useful lead. Does anyone know where you can get plastic ties long enough and strong enough to binds a person's limbs? Are they used in construction, or by movers, or in some other line of work?

[dark_shadows]

We use zip ties that long when we run out of handcuffs.They are used in Law Enforcement when a large number of people are being arrested.

[shellbee]

The more I think about it, the more I believe that the fact that the killer used "plastic ties" to bind the victim's legs has to be an important clue. I'm a pretty knowledgeable person, but I wouldn't know where to buy plastic ties like that.
Could they be flexicuffs ? LE, military, or airlines come to mind when I picture them.

[dark_shadows]

The more I think about it, the more I believe that the fact that the killer used "plastic ties" to bind the victim's legs has to be an important clue.
Does anyone know where you can get plastic ties long enough and strong enough to binds a person's limbs? Are they used in construction, or by movers, or in some other line of work?
Flex cuffs as stated by a poster were not used;
this is what flex cuffs are....
http://www.strapcuffs.com/images/1.jpg
I was talking about zip ties that we use,they are for one time use.This is what they look like;
http://us.a1c.yahoofs.com/shopping/mcid7_109687/simg_t_tf5fa1e940234f9aca099c3c48b6939b541334jpg85

[dark_shadows]

Geraldo was speaking about this case on Fox News.

[PonderingThings]

Long zip ties are commonly available in the manufacturing sector and have been for at least 10 years. They are considered a "packing and shipping" material. Commonly referred to as "packing ties" or "cable ties".

I remember once getting a couple free of charge from Home Depot. They are long, strong, and have to be cut off (can not be loosened).

Here is just one example
http://www.hillas.com/Products/Cable_Ties__Twist_Ties/Default.asp

[shellbee]

Flex cuffs as stated by a poster were not used;
this is what flex cuffs are....
http://www.strapcuffs.com/images/1.jpg[/url]

This is what I meant.

[url]http://www.copquest.com/19-1102.jpg (http://us.a1c.yahoofs.com/shopping/mcid7_109687/simg_t_tf5fa1e940234f9aca099c3c48b6939b541334jpg85 )

[txsvicki]

I just now found this thread about this horrible murder. I wonder if this freak had recently moved? Seems like he used what some are saying is a moving quilt, tapes, and plastic ties that can be purchased at probably Home Depot. The attack and murder must have taken place in a building because of the time frame and it would really be risky to be out in a van or truck and he used things that could quickly secure a person, maybe with tape first, then more secure plastic ties. Surely there have been other murders in another part of New York or state with the same sadistic bondage torture signatures, unless this was his first. If it's even possible, this freak sounds like he could be worse than btk.

[marly56]

The more I think about it, the more I believe that the fact that the killer used "plastic ties" to bind the victim's legs has to be an important clue. I'm a pretty knowledgeable person, but I wouldn't know where to buy plastic ties like that. The only plastic ties I've ever seen are the small ones about 6 inches long that you use to close garbage bags, much too small to wrap around two legs. I've also seen those thin smooth ones that plumbers and electricians sometimes use to tie PVC tubing, but I wouldn't know where to buy those and I'm certainly not comfortable manipulating them properly.

In general, when you do a job that might be difficult, you go with what you know works, with what's comfortable to you. If I had to tie someone up, the first thing that I would think of would be rope, since rope is familiar to me. I might use telephone cords, because my friend works for the local phone company and I see them lying around his house all the time. My point is, these things are familiar to me, they are part of my daily life experience. I wouldn't think of plastic ties or packaging tape. Even though I've used packaging tape to seal boxes, it wouldn't be the first thing that popped into my head, partly because I use it only rarely and partly because I wouldn't be sure that they'd be strong enough.

Yet plastic ties and packaging tape are familiar and comfortable to the killer for some reason, more so than other things like rope, and he knows that they'll work, suggesting he's got plenty of experience with them somehow. The killer might have encountered them in a job that he had where he had to use them a lot, so figuring out where you can get those ties might be a useful lead. Does anyone know where you can get plastic ties long enough and strong enough to binds a person's limbs? Are they used in construction, or by movers, or in some other line of work?
jttnewguy,do you think there is a possibility this could be a nyc cab [taxi] driver?.. the time of night and the area of bars in that neighborhood..there are always cabs trolling around looking for fares whens the bar crowds are thinning out . this idea just crossed my mind..you have indeed a very good assessment to what may have happened ,so far.

[concernedperson]

Here is a new New York Post article making reference to an assault on another young woman by a fake cabbie near the same area. Also, info that she spoke to no one or wasn't with anyone at the second bar.

http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/62616.htm

[dragonfly]

Here is a new New York Post article making reference to an assault on another young woman by a fake cabbie near the same area. Also, info that she spoke to no one or wasn't with anyone at the second bar.

http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/62616.htm
Yeah, this is extremely interesting....

[IdahoMom]

I woke up this morning wondering about a cab driver, too.

And, regarding the phone call, maybe it was a drunk or vagrant that witnessed the dumping of her body? I saw some aerial shots of the area last night and it appeared there were lean-tos or other rubbish in the vicinity that might attract homeless people for shelter.

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_12_10.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZSYYYYYYYYUS)

[southerngirl]

I was intrigued by the piece of paper she got out and looked at before she left the last bar, The Falls. Did it contain an address of some sort, and she made her way there? But at 4 am?

[IdahoMom]

I was intrigued by the piece of paper she got out and looked at before she left the last bar, The Falls. Did it contain an address of some sort, and she made her way there? But at 4 am?
OK. I have missed that detail. Was that on the surveillance video?

[southerngirl]

OK. I have missed that detail. Was that on the surveillance video?
It was in the NY Post article linked above.

[concernedperson]

I was intrigued by the piece of paper she got out and looked at before she left the last bar, The Falls. Did it contain an address of some sort, and she made her way there? But at 4 am?

I bet it was a phone number of a cab company. Waiting to go outside to call as it was quieter than inside the bar.

[dragonfly]

From the article concernedperson posted the link to above this perp was operating as a "boogus" or fake cap driver. Assuming it's very late and young female victims are probably drunk, looking for a ride. They become a easy target IMO. The perp just waits till he has a single woman looking for a ride.

[IdahoMom]

It was in the NY Post article linked above.Oh, I can't access the entire article. I'm not a subscriber. And, does it reference the OTHER girl looking at a piece of paper, or Imette looking at one?

I refuse to join another newspaper site in order to read their content!

[Jesstexas]

IdahoMom - it says Imette pulled a piece of paper out of her purse and looked at it before leaving the last bar:



"Meanwhile, clearer details emerged yesterday about St. Guillen's final steps the night she was slain.

After leaving her friends at the Pioneer Bar on the Bowery at around 3:30 a.m. Saturday, the dark-haired beauty made her way to The Falls, another bar t five blocks away. Employees there said St. Guillen came in before 3:40 a.m. and sat — by herself — at the bar. She had one or two rum-and-Cokes as she listened to music and people-watched.

"She was all alone. She didn't talk to anyone," said a source.

While there, her friend Claire Higgins called at 3:50 a.m. to find out where she was, and St. Guillen said, "I'll be home later," according to police.

"Her friend was concerned and, therefore, called to check on her," said a police spokesman.

At around 4 a.m., St. Guillen pulled a piece of paper out of her purse, looked at it and left by herself, cops said. It's not clear what was on the paper, and St. Guillen had no other phone calls, the sources said. Police believe the 5-foot-3, 100-pound forensic-psychology student drank as many as six rum-and-Cokes over the course of 51/2 hours. Friends said St. Guillen would "get a buzz" after two drinks. She appeared to be "in decent shape" when she left the bar, sources said. That's where the trail goes cold. "

[petra]

http://news.bostonherald.com/localRegional/view.bg?articleid=128688

Boston Police Department --part of extended family

[IdahoMom]

IdahoMom - it says Imette pulled a piece of paper out of her purse and looked at it before leaving the last bar:


Thank you SO much for posting that!!!:clap: That helps! :)

OK, I think the piece of paper was a note from someone or directions to a rendezvous with someone she thought handsome and charming. Perhaps she was waiting for someone that worked at a bar to get off work?

I don't think the paper had a cab # on it because she probably took cabs all the time, and either had the #s saved in her phone or knew them by heart.

[michelle]

I was a bit freaked out last night with all this serial killer talk. Do you all think its a serial killer??

[IdahoMom]

I was a bit freaked out last night with all this serial killer talk. Do you all think its a serial killer??
I think it's someone that will do this again.

[WISCer]

IdahoMom - it says Imette pulled a piece of paper out of her purse and looked at it before leaving the last bar:



"Meanwhile, clearer details emerged yesterday about St. Guillen's final steps the night she was slain.

After leaving her friends at the Pioneer Bar on the Bowery at around 3:30 a.m. Saturday, the dark-haired beauty made her way to The Falls, another bar t five blocks away. Employees there said St. Guillen came in before 3:40 a.m. and sat — by herself — at the bar. She had one or two rum-and-Cokes as she listened to music and people-watched.

"She was all alone. She didn't talk to anyone," said a source.

While there, her friend Claire Higgins called at 3:50 a.m. to find out where she was, and St. Guillen said, "I'll be home later," according to police.

"Her friend was concerned and, therefore, called to check on her," said a police spokesman.

At around 4 a.m., St. Guillen pulled a piece of paper out of her purse, looked at it and left by herself, cops said. It's not clear what was on the paper, and St. Guillen had no other phone calls, the sources said. Police believe the 5-foot-3, 100-pound forensic-psychology student drank as many as six rum-and-Cokes over the course of 51/2 hours. Friends said St. Guillen would "get a buzz" after two drinks. She appeared to be "in decent shape" when she left the bar, sources said. That's where the trail goes cold. "


It sounds almost as if she was "working up the nerve" meet someone with all the drinks. Especially since she got a buzz after only two. Or, maybe, something was going on that was making her nervous?

jttnewguy...I'm a John Douglas fan too...you nail it! great post!

[michelle]

I think it's someone that will do this again. I think that too, this crime was too sadistic to be just a one time thing, you know....

[michelle]

It sounds almost as if she was "working up the nerve" meet someone with all the drinks. Especially since she got a buzz after only two. Or, maybe, something was going on that was making her nervous?
yea i agree, it does sound like that....

[Jesstexas]

Having been a 24-year-old who liked to party, 6 drinks over the course of an entire evening is NOT that much.

But it does strike me as very odd that at 3:30 in the morning, she would leave one bar, by herself, just to go to another bar and sit and have a drink - by herself.

[nanandjim]

I bet it was a phone number of a cab company. Waiting to go outside to call as it was quieter than inside the bar.
Wouldn't her cell phone showed that she called a cab company?? If it doesn't, perhaps she went outside of the bar to call one and a cab driver (bogus) pulled up and asked her where she was going.