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tybee204
03-07-2006, 07:19 PM
Please continue here. I locked the previous thread and made it a sticky so you all could access it easily for information.

HeartofTexas
03-07-2006, 07:35 PM
Wow, this is great! Does this mean that we can also open different folders for Anna's case, or do we still need to limit ourself to one thread (but a new one)?

tybee204
03-07-2006, 07:42 PM
You can start new threads in this forum to discuss the case.

HeartofTexas
03-07-2006, 07:43 PM
Thanks so much, Tybee... this is a real gift.

Dr. Doogie
03-07-2006, 07:48 PM
Thanks to WS for opening this forum. I will try over the next few days to organize the info into logical threads to help us all.

gardenmom
03-07-2006, 08:55 PM
Thanks, Tybee!!!

tybee204
03-07-2006, 09:04 PM
;) Your Welcome

Annasmom
03-09-2006, 10:28 AM
I have been thinking about something Anna's friend posted a couple of weeks ago. She said that she walked home a few blocks from school every day. Joe Ford, Anna's stepfather, underwent a hypnotic regression many years ago, and nothing much was revealed except that he said something about Anna's visiting this friend (whom he named)...I can't remember when this visit might have been. If this were the case, the two little girls could have walked from the kindergarten classroom to the friend's house and of course could have been observed by anyone who knew when the class let out. I can almost--but not quite--remember this. But all along I have been thinking that Anna got on the bus at home, went to school, took the bus back and walked the few yards to the house, which doesn't allow much occasion for a watcher to lurk without being seen. Usually on Mondays I went to school with her, since I was an aide in her class. She disappeared on a Tuesday. We are hoping to hear something from the kindergarten teachers and perhaps the bus driver when Anna's friend gets in touch with them. Annasfriend did say that the two kindergarten teachers always believed that Anna was abducted. Annasfriend also mentioned in a PM that she remembered Anna's cowboy boots--something I had completely forgotten, even though I kept them.

Joe Ford
03-09-2006, 02:07 PM
I have been thinking about something Anna's friend posted a couple of weeks ago. She said that she walked home a few blocks from school every day. Joe Ford, Anna's stepfather, underwent a hypnotic regression many years ago, and nothing much was revealed except that he said something about Anna's visiting this friend (whom he named)...I can't remember when this visit might have been. If this were the case, the two little girls could have walked from the kindergarten classroom to the friend's house and of course could have been observed by anyone who knew when the class let out. I can almost--but not quite--remember this. But all along I have been thinking that Anna got on the bus at home, went to school, took the bus back and walked the few yards to the house, which doesn't allow much occasion for a watcher to lurk without being seen. Usually on Mondays I went to school with her, since I was an aide in her class. She disappeared on a Tuesday. We are hoping to hear something from the kindergarten teachers and perhaps the bus driver when Anna's friend gets in touch with them. Annasfriend did say that the two kindergarten teachers always believed that Anna was abducted. Annasfriend also mentioned in a PM that she remembered Anna's cowboy boots--something I had completely forgotten, even though I kept them.
I am not sure, either, of the date of the regression but am pretty confident that it was within a year of Anna's disappearance. I believe an audio tape was made and may possibly be found in the BFH.

Annasmom
03-09-2006, 05:02 PM
I am not sure, either, of the date of the regression but am pretty confident that it was within a year of Anna's disappearance. I believe an audio tape was made and may possibly be found in the BFH.
It was indeed in the BFH and I transcribed it, but there was no indication of who the hypnotist was.

Dr. Doogie
03-09-2006, 05:04 PM
It was indeed in the BFH and I transcribed it, but there was no indication of who the hypnotist was.
I have the transcript.

mel36
03-09-2006, 07:10 PM
Thank you tybee. :)

gardenmom
03-10-2006, 12:58 PM
I don't have anything new to add right now, I just wanted to let Annasmom and Joe know that I still care! :D

laini
03-10-2006, 02:56 PM
When I look at missing people on doenetwork, after I read their page I tend to go down to the bottom of the page and look at the links/sources for more info. I noticed on Anna's page it only lists NCMEC (which I think is a frustrating site to look through/ hard for me to navigate sometimes). Anyway, I wonder if it might be helpful to add more links to the bottom of Anna's doenetwork page if they would allow you to. Such as a link to Charley Project's page on Anna, or even this discussion board. If other people look on doe and are new to their search or to the internet, they may not find this information. Just a thought. That would be helpful if someone WAS searching for their identity, and also for getting this story out there. Just a thought :)

Dr. Doogie
03-10-2006, 03:01 PM
Anyway, I wonder if it might be helpful to add more links to the bottom of Anna's doenetwork page if they would allow you to. Such as a link to Charley Project's page on Anna, or even this discussion board.
An excellent idea. I will look into it.

Annasmom
03-10-2006, 04:11 PM
I don't have anything new to add right now, I just wanted to let Annasmom and Joe know that I still care! :DThank you, Gardenmom. You know, Anna had a little garden. When I moved from the farm, I dug the whole thing up (including the compost pile) and brought it seven miles to the community where I live now. Eventually all the plants and rocks disseminated all over the yard so that I never know where I'll find a souvenir.

PonderingThings
03-10-2006, 04:17 PM
Thank you, Gardenmom. You know, Anna had a little garden. When I moved from the farm, I dug the whole thing up (including the compost pile) and brought it seven miles to the community where I live now. Eventually all the plants and rocks disseminated all over the yard so that I never know where I'll find a souvenir.
Anna's mom this post brought tears to my eyes... yes you have been deprived of your daughter all these years but also Anna has been deprived of you! That is just so tragic!

YOU are an awesome lady!

HeartofTexas
03-10-2006, 07:36 PM
Annasmom, I cried when I read that you dug up Anna's little garden when you moved. That is so very touching.

I'm posting this information that I just put on the Delia Cly forum because I think it bears some resemblance to Anna's disappearance (couple in a car, close to water, blonde-haired little girl, etc.). I don't think it will help us find Anna but we may as well put all interesting information in the same place. I had to re-type this information from a picture of a newspaper article, so the only reference for this is Ancestry.com.


June 19, 1965 The Chillicothe Constitution Tribune (in Missouri) A kidnapping possibility in the disappearance of little Elizabeth Ann "Betsy" Gill is being investigated by police.

Betsy, the two year old blonde-haired daughter of Mr. and Mrs. Harry Gill, was last seen near her home Sunday afternoon. Search parties both on land and the Mississippi River 3 blocks from her home have found nothing.

Capt. Frederick L. Schneider of the Cape Girardeau police department said the kidnapping angle was "just a lead we're checking out" - anything in the hope of finding the child.

Schneider said two vehicles - a sports car and a pickup truck with Alabama license plates - were seen in the Cape Girardeau area Sunday. He said a middle-aged man and woman were in each of the vehicles.

He said that police were trying to find them for questioning.

mel36
03-10-2006, 10:18 PM
:) thats all I can do, your a wonderfull mom and a warmhearted person.Thank you, Gardenmom. You know, Anna had a little garden. When I moved from the farm, I dug the whole thing up (including the compost pile) and brought it seven miles to the community where I live now. Eventually all the plants and rocks disseminated all over the yard so that I never know where I'll find a souvenir.

viking
03-11-2006, 01:13 AM
Hey there Annasmom and Joe,
I have been dealing with some yucky stuff lately, but wanted you both to know that Anna is always on my mind.
Peace,
Mary

P.S.,
Doogie, you are an incredible person, period.

gardenmom
03-11-2006, 02:13 AM
Thank you, Gardenmom. You know, Anna had a little garden. When I moved from the farm, I dug the whole thing up (including the compost pile) and brought it seven miles to the community where I live now. Eventually all the plants and rocks disseminated all over the yard so that I never know where I'll find a souvenir.
That is so nice. I had an aunt who had this plant she called Henrietta. She loved that thing and it thrived. Every now and then she would cut off pieces of Henrietta and give them away. Well, when I got married I took my "Henrietta" with me. When I moved to Alaska I gave my Henrietta to my mom, who in turn killed the thing. Well, my aunt died a couple years ago. I wish I had that plant now. My mom planted a beautiful pink rose garden in her yard and made a plaque that says someone about it being my Aunt Ellen's memorial garden. She goes there when she wants to remember her. So, anyway, I understand.

Alta
03-12-2006, 03:58 PM
I am a huge lurker here at websleuths,and I am always amazed at the intelligence of the posters.I spent somewhere from 8-10 hours reading the original thread on Anna.My heart breaks for your family.Dr Doogie what a special person you are helping Anna's family in this way.You are truly a hero in my books.The same goes out to all who have jumped in with great ideas,if anyone can help you Annasmom & Joe it is the great people here.I do alot of research through blackmarket adoptions in the Canadian areas so I will definatly keep my eyes peeled for anything.I don't have alot to offer you but my heartfelt hope you find out where Anna is very soon.
Good luck in your search and way to go all sleuthers you are truly the best.

T'sNana
03-12-2006, 07:46 PM
Welcome!! Hi Alta! You have as much to offer as anyone. Not one of us knows everything and it's more insightful with all of us discussing the different scenarios, evidence, etc. I feel I have so little to offer as well...but you just never know! I am a huge lurker here at websleuths,and I am always amazed at the intelligence of the posters.I spent somewhere from 8-10 hours reading the original thread on Anna.My heart breaks for your family.Dr Doogie what a special person you are helping Anna's family in this way.You are truly a hero in my books.The same goes out to all who have jumped in with great ideas,if anyone can help you Annasmom & Joe it is the great people here.I do alot of research through blackmarket adoptions in the Canadian areas so I will definatly keep my eyes peeled for anything.I don't have alot to offer you but my heartfelt hope you find out where Anna is very soon.
Good luck in your search and way to go all sleuthers you are truly the best.

Dr. Doogie
03-14-2006, 04:33 PM
I have updated the thread named "Possible Matches for Anna" to reflect all of the individuals who we have explored. Check it out for all of the details.

Shadow205
03-16-2006, 10:13 AM
I sent Anna's poster to everyone in my address book and asked them to forward it on to everyone in theirs. That covers quite a few states. Just a small attempt to get her picture and story out there.

Dr. Doogie
03-16-2006, 11:05 AM
Thanks, Shadow205.

gardenmom
03-23-2006, 03:37 PM
I am copying a link from the Rose Cole thread on cold cases because when I read this it reminded me of George Waters. I wonder if this could have been where his money was going.

Quote: "As such, it recruited a number of lawyers, architects, doctors, and businessmen – some of whom continued to work outside but turned their income over to Synanon."


http://www.ptreyeslight.com/columns/sparsely/sparsely1126_03.html

viking
03-24-2006, 01:10 AM
Wow, Gardenmom, the hairs at the back of my neck stood up. I feel we are heading in the right direction. It all seems to fit really well. This may seem disjointed all, so bear with me. In cults, everyone has a "keeper", i.e., someone who watches over a new recruit to make sure the recruit is doing what the leader wants. Could Brody be Waters' keeper? A leader would realize that George Waters could generate money from being a doctor, plus he came from a wealthy family. I know Waters made demands from his family for money. I grew up in Northern California and Lord knows there were/are many cults. One was called "The Moore Family" and they drove a purple hearse around. Psycho! I digress. I researched cults in college and I found a website for "child survivors of cults". I am gonna go check it out again. What I wouldn't give fora list of members of Bay Area cults from that time.

Annasmom, Joe, Doogie: Were there any records of a steady payment to an organization by Waters? Maybe not, considering how secretive cults are. I believe George Waters was sadly, a victim. Interesting connection. Gardenmom.

Peace, Mary

HeartofTexas
03-24-2006, 09:38 AM
Gardenmom and Viking... great posts and ideas. Sometimes thinking "outside of the box" gets us where we need to go. Not everything we come up with will work, but if we're constantly challenging old ideas, we stand a better chance of finding the real answers.

I doubt, from what little I know about the two Georges, that they sent checks to anyone... but perhaps in the BFH there are stubs from Money Orders or such. Who knows.

gardenmom
03-24-2006, 01:52 PM
Gardenmom and Viking... great posts and ideas. Sometimes thinking "outside of the box" gets us where we need to go. Not everything we come up with will work, but if we're constantly challenging old ideas, we stand a better chance of finding the real answers.

I doubt, from what little I know about the two Georges, that they sent checks to anyone... but perhaps in the BFH there are stubs from Money Orders or such. Who knows.

Don't forget good old fashioned case either. What a great place to hide Anna, inside a place where she would be watched like a hawk, and never get out.

kyresearcher
03-26-2006, 06:00 PM
Annasmom, did Anna have a social security card? If so, have you checked with the social security office to see if there has been any activity on it since she disappeared?Also, I am wondering if you have checked with the court system in California to see if there was any name changes filed in their courts after Anna disappeared under her name? I know in our state of Ky. it is kept in the court house then when case is older it is sent to the capital (FRANKFORT) and kept in the archive files.

Annasmom
03-26-2006, 09:27 PM
Annasmom, did Anna have a social security card? If so, have you checked with the social security office to see if there has been any activity on it since she disappeared?Also, I am wondering if you have checked with the court system in California to see if there was any name changes filed in their courts after Anna disappeared under her name? I know in our state of Ky. it is kept in the court house then when case is older it is sent to the capital (FRANKFORT) and kept in the archive files.Kyresearcher, she did not have a social security card. Checking under name changes sounds like a good idea, but I don't know how this would be done. Maybe I can find out.

kyresearcher
03-27-2006, 12:03 AM
Kyresearcher, she did not have a social security card. Checking under name changes sounds like a good idea, but I don't know how this would be done. Maybe I can find out.
Annasmom, call the court house nearest to you and ask them first if it is public records, but since you are her mother you should be privy to it.Then ask them if they have name change records back in the 70's or if they are in archives (since they are so old) I would explain to them why you are asking and tell them that possibly GW had her name changed. Have them search the name Anna Waters, it is possible that they can tell you if all the courts sent all their records to one office to be recorded. I worked in our court system for 16 1/2 yrs. and have seen the judge issue name changes for various reasons but the courts may be different in Ca. I would just call and call and somewhere you will find a person willing to help. I wish I was there to help you.

gardenmom
03-27-2006, 12:28 AM
Don't forget good old fashioned case either. What a great place to hide Anna, inside a place where she would be watched like a hawk, and never get out.
Oops, That should be CASH, not case. Sorry.

Dr. Doogie
04-07-2006, 07:24 PM
"As such, it recruited a number of lawyers, architects, doctors, and businessmen – some of whom continued to work outside but turned their income over to Synanon."

As I continue to review the contents of the Box From Hell, I have come across a letter where GW was attempting to be hired at a clinic for alcohol treatment. I will review which clinic it was and see if there are any Synanon connections.

Dr. Doogie
04-07-2006, 07:47 PM
A summary of where the investigation currently stands:

1) We have found a woman living near San Francisco who has the same last name as the deceased woman who lived with Brody prior to his living with Waters. I hope to contact her and see if she is a relative who knew Brody and might shed some light on his history.

2) Kyresearcher has uncovered several unclaimed property cases where the names involved match either GB, GW or Anna. We are researching these to see if they are the people involved with this case. If any of these do match up, then it will provide us a clue as to where Anna might be.

3) Our friends "down under" are searching for an Australian actress/entertainer named Anna Waters who somewhat resembles the age-progression picture. Hopefully, they will be able to provide contact information that will allow us to see if she is our Anna.

4) The hunt for "Seka" continues. I pulled up a list of every Seka listed for California - almost all have a Serbian or Croatian sounding name, which would fit our Seka who is of Yugoslavian heritage. I am looking for some clue to narrow down the search before contacting every Seka that lives in California.

5) An actress names Anna Waters appeared in a U.K. movie concerning child abuse. People are trying to obtain a copy of the film to see if she resembles our Anna before we put too much effort into find her. I wonder if she is the same Anna Waters mentioned in point 3?

At a time like now when activity slows down a bit here in the forum, there is still valuable research being done because of the efforts of all of you. Thank you all very much! :clap:

Kelly
04-07-2006, 11:01 PM
Hello all,

I was very pleased to see a subforum dedicated to Anna's story.

I just wanted to remind Anna's mom and let the rest of you know that Anna is on Project Jason's current 18 Wheel Angel campaign. A special poster has been made for her and can be downloaded and printed for placement. More information about the program, and the link for the poster can be found here: http://www.projectjason.org/18wheel.html

In addition to the campaign, Anna is also featured in a trucking publication called Through the Gears. This free magazine is distributed in truck stops nationwide. Her age progression photo is on the front cover, in the table of contents, and also on page 48, along with her childhood photo. A two page spread with her complete story, as told by her mother, is on page 48 and 50.

Through the Gears is one of JB Scott's many publications. In partnership with Project Jason, they feature one missing person per month. You can pick up your free copies at a local truck stop, but if it's far from you, you may want to call and ask if they carry that magazine. These are NOT with the regular for purchase magazines. At my truck stop, they are in a special rack outside the main truck stop door. At another truck stop, they are in a hallway between the store and the trucker's lounge.

Through the Gears has a circulation of about 150,000.

Anna's mom, if it's inconvenient for you to find these local to you, we will be happy to mail you several copies. Let me know via email.

We hope this helps in the search for Anna.

Regards,

viking
04-07-2006, 11:24 PM
Kelly, you are an incredibly generous and amazing woman.
Peace,

Mary

HeartofTexas
04-08-2006, 12:12 AM
I agree, Viking. I've met some pretty amazing people on Websleuths and none are better than the moms who have endured the pain they have with such grace and dignity and a willingness to help others. I'm going to try to find a truck stop this weekend to see if I can pick up a copy of Through the Gears.

BTW, Doogie, that's a great summation you did and lets everyone know instantly where research is needed. Like you, I did a search on Seka's in California, expecting at the most 3-5 and was shocked to see they were everywhere! Who knew!

kyresearcher
04-08-2006, 02:33 AM
A summary of where the investigation currently stands:

1) We have found a woman living near San Francisco who has the same last name as the deceased woman who lived with Brody prior to his living with Waters. I hope to contact her and see if she is a relative who knew Brody and might shed some light on his history.

2) Kyresearcher has uncovered several unclaimed property cases where the names involved match either GB, GW or Anna. We are researching these to see if they are the people involved with this case. If any of these do match up, then it will provide us a clue as to where Anna might be.

3) Our friends "down under" are searching for an Australian actress/entertainer named Anna Waters who somewhat resembles the age-progression picture. Hopefully, they will be able to provide contact information that will allow us to see if she is our Anna.

4) The hunt for "Seka" continues. I pulled up a list of every Seka listed for California - almost all have a Serbian or Croatian sounding name, which would fit our Seka who is of Yugoslavian heritage. I am looking for some clue to narrow down the search before contacting every Seka that lives in California.

5) An actress names Anna Waters appeared in a U.K. movie concerning child abuse. People are trying to obtain a copy of the film to see if she resembles our Anna before we put too much effort into find her. I wonder if she is the same Anna Waters mentioned in point 3?

At a time like now when activity slows down a bit here in the forum, there is still valuable research being done because of the efforts of all of you. Thank you all very much! :clap:
DrDoogie, the name Seka that you were referring to, did you see it spelled out or did someone just say the name to you and that is the way the spelling sounded to you? This inquiry has something to do with the name I sent you on the unclaimed money for Anna.

Dr. Doogie
04-08-2006, 03:03 PM
DrDoogie, the name Seka that you were referring to, did you see it spelled out or did someone just say the name to you and that is the way the spelling sounded to you? This inquiry has something to do with the name I sent you on the unclaimed money for Anna.
I have several letters between Seka and the two Georges where she signs her name as Seka. There also is a letter written by Brody to Seka's family where he refers to her as Seka, so that seems to be her proper name.

(As I write this, it dawns on me that Brody may have addressed the letter to "Mr. & Mrs. ________". Heck, I may know the last name. Let me check right now...)

Dr. Doogie
04-08-2006, 03:42 PM
No luck - Brody addressed the letters to her family as "Dear Friends". No address other than references to "Beograd".

I rereading the correspondence, it appears that Seka first arrived in San Francisco from Yugoslavia in 1976. Brody refers to her also by a nickname of "Little Tito". Shortly after her arrival, it appears that she began to drift away from Brody's influence, causing him to warn her about the emotional damage that would occur to her if he were to break ties with her (the ego of this man was stunning).

Dr. Doogie
04-08-2006, 03:48 PM
As I continue to review the contents of the Box From Hell, I have come across a letter where GW was attempting to be hired at a clinic for alcohol treatment. I will review which clinic it was and see if there are any Synanon connections.
He was lobbying a Dr. Richard Shore with the Bureau of Alcoholism, 101 Grove Street, SF, CA. It appears that this is a city agency, not a private organization that may have ties to Synanon. The letter is dated August 6, 1970.

Dr. Doogie
04-08-2006, 04:08 PM
I have found an interesting handwritten note in the Box From Hell. Some words are undeciperable, but here it is in its entirity:

Plan

1. Contact (undecipherable, looks like "mome") (a p with a line above it) Final arrangements (a c with a line above it) L's have been made. Jan 1973

2. Apply for $100.000 (a c with a line above it) A.C.E. as B (scribbled out word)

3. 3 months later negotiate increase to 5. (undecipherable, looks like "slils") ACE

4. 3 mos later change B.

What is interesting is that this note outlines a plan where the "final arrangements" conclude with something happening in January 1973, the month and year that Anna disappeared. This plan also includes applying for a sum of money (either $100.00 with one too many zeros behind the decimal or $100,000 with a period instead of a comma in the number). It appears the plan was to apply as Brody, then change the name on the loan three months later (which does not make a lot of sense, but that was apparently the plan).

The symbols used in the note appear to be shorthand. Is anyone out there familar with these symbols?

Dr. Doogie
04-08-2006, 04:10 PM
I am also posting these last few posts in the thread concerning GW and GB so as to keep all of the info concerning them in one place.

Shadow205
04-09-2006, 08:47 AM
He was lobbying a Dr. Richard Shore with the Bureau of Alcoholism, 101 Grove Street, SF, CA. It appears that this is a city agency, not a private organization that may have ties to Synanon. The letter is dated August 6, 1970.Dr.Doogie,

Is there a possibility that Anna was raised in Synanon? From what I have read about GW & GB, I can certainly see where they could have been involved with Synanon.

This link will take you to the public view of The Synanon Museum which has tons of pictures http://www.synanon.org/Synanon/Museum/Museum.cfm

Shadow205
04-09-2006, 09:18 AM
I found this photo at the Synanon site. I know that it is a long shot but I can see a likeness to Anna. This picture was taken in 1974.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a273/shadow205/Museum_01110.jpg (http://s13.photobucket.com/albums/a273/shadow205/?)

Shadow205
04-09-2006, 09:35 AM
A comparrison to Anna & the little girl at Synanon

http://s13.photobucket.com/albums/a273/shadow205/th_AWaters2.jpg (http://s13.photobucket.com/albums/a273/shadow205/?action=view&current=AWaters2.jpg)http://s13.photobucket.com/albums/a273/shadow205/th_Croppedlittlegirl.jpg (http://s13.photobucket.com/albums/a273/shadow205/?action=view&current=Croppedlittlegirl.jpg)

PonderingThings
04-09-2006, 09:44 AM
WOW WOW WOW I can hardly wait to hear what Anna's Mom thinks of this comparison. Personally I'm in awe!

mysteriew
04-09-2006, 10:23 AM
There is a Lena Lindsay mentioned in the pictures in 1959, she appeared young then. She is mentioned again in 2003, much older appearance, maybe had been with them the whole time?

What is the deal with the wedding/group weddings?

Very interesting site. Nice find. I note that there is a place to sign in. I wonder what makes a person eligible to sign up? There is no explanation, so I am wondering if it is open?

Edited to add: I found the answer about the weddings.

skywatchn
04-09-2006, 10:48 AM
I found this photo at the Synanon site. I know that it is a long shot but I can see a likeness to Anna. This picture was taken in 1974.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a273/shadow205/Museum_01110.jpg (http://s13.photobucket.com/albums/a273/shadow205/?)
If you notice in the pic on the sight you can read a box with the name "Christian " on it. Looks like this could be where the kids put their shoes.

PonderingThings
04-09-2006, 10:52 AM
Skywatchn that is a good observations... can anyone make out the name on the box that is pulled out (as in just got their shoes out of the box)?????

mysteriew
04-09-2006, 10:59 AM
Good question PT. But don't put too much emphasis on it, as some kids are good about closing drawers and some aren't. The little girl could have been good at closing her slot, or drawer.

PonderingThings
04-09-2006, 11:07 AM
Agreed Mysteriew. I am not going to put any emphasis on anything until Anna's mom sees the pic! I am curious though.....

SherlockJr
04-09-2006, 11:18 AM
If you notice in the pic on the sight you can read a box with the name "Christian " on it. Looks like this could be where the kids put their shoes.


It almost looks like the boxes are in alphabetical order. So the box pulled out might have a name beginning somewhere from "J" to "N"

petra
04-09-2006, 11:25 AM
I found this photo at the Synanon site. I know that it is a long shot but I can see a likeness to Anna. This picture was taken in 1974.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a273/shadow205/Museum_01110.jpg (http://s13.photobucket.com/albums/a273/shadow205/?)
Do you see the name on the box below *Christian*...possible Anna *Christian* Waters?

just a thought..

great find shadow:)

petra
04-09-2006, 11:27 AM
Do you see the name on the box below *Christian*...possible Anna *Christian* Waters?

just a thought..

great find shadow:)
LOL...we are all finding it at the same time:o

petra
04-09-2006, 11:30 AM
looks to me like shoe boxes..and no shoes in Christian's box...could be shadows though.

PonderingThings
04-09-2006, 12:01 PM
The Child's name is Molly - or at least that's what's on the bib of her coveralls.

mysteriew
04-09-2006, 12:02 PM
There was a guy named William Olin who wrote a book called "Escape from Utopia". The book is supposed to be a pretty fair, non sensationalized story about Synanon. He was there during the '70's. There is also a girl named Deborah Swisher who entered there as a child with her mother. She did a show in NY about Synanon. She would have been a teen during the '70's. Her mother remained there for 10 years after she left. She seems a little more biasised toward Synanon. Wonder if we could make contact with them?

http://www.rickross.com/reference/synanon/synanon2.html

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0913300535/103-8022371-1860651?v=glance&n=283155

PonderingThings
04-09-2006, 12:04 PM
Maybe not Molly... maybe "May"... I have a notebook and its tough to say with this screen.

PonderingThings
04-09-2006, 12:05 PM
I did look at all the photos at the site. There was one with girls at the Rodeo that was a close up and quite frankly there were so many children there it could have been any of them....

mysteriew
04-09-2006, 12:15 PM
The Child's name is Molly - or at least that's what's on the bib of her coveralls.

The whole deal with the "commune" experience is that people don't own things. Everything that one person had belonged to the group.
I would expect that the kids clothes were probably passed from one to the other, and that they didn't own their own clothing.

PonderingThings
04-09-2006, 12:22 PM
Again quite possible Mysteriew. One of the photos shows a large bin and it is noted that this was a laundry bin. Its hard to believe all the laundry would be put in such a big bin, washed, dried, and then returned to its "rightful" owner.

Therefore you may be right...

Or... it is also possible it was a outfit that the new person had...

HeartofTexas
04-09-2006, 12:25 PM
I don't know if any of the information would be pertinent, but there is a lot of information re Synanon being posted on the Rose Cole thread right now. Rose was actually sent to Synanon in 1972 by a Michigan Judge for drug problems. Rose was 15 when sent there and has never been seen again. There are some emails that are being copied from Synanon from a contact we have... and it's possible Anna's picture could be shown to this contact (a former Syanon child member) to see if she might recognize her. I've read the biography of one person there and can tell you after seeing the above picture that what is shown there is accurate. The older girls (10-12) cared for the younger girls (2-6)... it was their weekly assignment. They groomed them, did their laundry, etc. If there's any way we can help, please let us know.

mysteriew
04-09-2006, 12:30 PM
If it is ok with Dr. Doogie and Annasmom, I think it would be a good idea. Though without a name attached, because if she was there, she could have gone by a different name.

Annasmom
04-09-2006, 12:51 PM
Hello all,

I was very pleased to see a subforum dedicated to Anna's story.

I just wanted to remind Anna's mom and let the rest of you know that Anna is on Project Jason's current 18 Wheel Angel campaign. A special poster has been made for her and can be downloaded and printed for placement. More information about the program, and the link for the poster can be found here: http://www.projectjason.org/18wheel.html

Anna's mom, if it's inconvenient for you to find these local to you, we will be happy to mail you several copies. Let me know via email.

We hope this helps in the search for Anna.

Regards,
Kelly, we are presently stranded here and would appreciate your mailing the copies.

Annasmom
04-09-2006, 01:01 PM
WOW WOW WOW I can hardly wait to hear what Anna's Mom thinks of this comparison. Personally I'm in awe!
That seems like a really strong resemblance. Any idea what year that photograph might have been taken? It would have to be 1973 or at the latest 1974 to match the age Anna would have been. Amazing.

Annasmom
04-09-2006, 01:02 PM
If it is ok with Dr. Doogie and Annasmom, I think it would be a good idea. Though without a name attached, because if she was there, she could have gone by a different name.
Certainly it's fine with us!

PonderingThings
04-09-2006, 01:03 PM
That seems like a really strong resemblance. Any idea what year that photograph might have been taken? It would have to be 1973 or at the latest 1974 to match the age Anna would have been. Amazing.
"around 1974"

Shadow205
04-09-2006, 01:03 PM
That seems like a really strong resemblance. Any idea what year that photograph might have been taken? It would have to be 1973 or at the latest 1974 to match the age Anna would have been. Amazing.
The picture was taken in 1974

HeartofTexas
04-09-2006, 01:28 PM
Shadow, if you want to, email Christine a picture of Anna around the time she was abducted, and she can show it to her contact at Synanon. Maybe someone will recognize her.

PonderingThings
04-09-2006, 01:33 PM
Or simply ask anyone if they know who the girl in the pic is?????

mysteriew
04-09-2006, 01:37 PM
Shadow, if you want to, email Christine a picture of Anna around the time she was abducted, and she can show it to her contact at Synanon. Maybe someone will recognize her.

I pm'd Christine and asked if she would be willing to do it and gave her the link to the picture. She seems to be offline however, so if anyone has her email address, they might want to email her.

smile22
04-09-2006, 01:46 PM
i think the resemblance of both pictures look alike. after people posting on here about synanon i think its a possiblity i mean brody must have known about this cult type place figured she would never be found. hence the way synanon ran things but trying to get info from those people is going to be hard

Shadow205
04-09-2006, 02:26 PM
I emailed the picture to Christine.


I pm'd Christine and asked if she would be willing to do it and gave her the link to the picture. She seems to be offline however, so if anyone has her email address, they might want to email her.

Dr. Doogie
04-09-2006, 02:30 PM
I emailed the picture to Christine.
I have been loosely following the thread on Rose Cole, but refresh my memory: Who is Christine? Is this a woman involved in Synanon during the early-to-mid 1970's?

Shadow205
04-09-2006, 02:32 PM
He was lobbying a Dr. Richard Shore with the Bureau of Alcoholism, 101 Grove Street, SF, CA. It appears that this is a city agency, not a private organization that may have ties to Synanon. The letter is dated August 6, 1970.
This is what got me looking at the Synanon site(which I have become all to familiar with while looking for Rose). in reference to Anna. I think that there is a very good possibility that they had ties to Synanon. He could easlily have taken Anna there where she would have been raised possibly under another name. From what I have read, changing names there was not uncommon.

mysteriew
04-09-2006, 02:34 PM
I have been loosely following the thread on Rose Cole, but refresh my memory: Who is Christine? Is this a woman involved in Synanon during the early-to-mid 1970's?
Christine is a WS member, been here a while. She is in email contact with some of the ex Synanon members about Rose.

Dr. Doogie
04-09-2006, 04:34 PM
I have not yet found anything linking either Waters or Brody to Synanon, but I have only reviewed maybe 25% of the contents of the Box from Hell. There may be something in there that could provide the missing link.

Without the link, I at first assumed that the young girl in the Synanon picture was merely a look-alike that was not related. However, the box does clearly state "Christian" and it appears that she could have just removed her shoes from that box when the picture was taken. That makes this picture of much more interest to me. I await what information Christine has from her source.

Dr. Doogie
04-09-2006, 04:38 PM
One thought just came to mind: We found an abandoned safe deposit box in the name of George Brody at Bank of America in downtown Oakland. Synanon was located in Oakland also. Do any of you Synanon experts (or those of you that are rapidly becoming experts because of the Rose Cole thread) know where the group did their banking?

natasha-cupcake
04-09-2006, 09:06 PM
If you notice in the pic on the sight you can read a box with the name "Christian " on it. Looks like this could be where the kids put their shoes.
I hesitate to post this because it just seems so unlikely and maybe it's just my imagination, but I could swear that the box just to the right of the older girl's foot (the box that's slightly pulled out compared to the others) has the letters "ife" and then another letter that I can't make out. Could this possibly be "Eifee"??

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a273/shadow205/Museum_01110.jpg

I thought this little girl had a very strong resemblance to the pictures of little Anna.

SadieJane
04-09-2006, 09:27 PM
I zoomed it up super big on my computer, and I definitely think the box you are referring to is labeled with a name that contains an F. I see an L before the F, so possibly Alfie? I don't know. The name on the little girl's overalls is Emily. The other boxes are labeled with a name ending "ando," Christian, and Jane/June.

The face looks like Anna, but the hair is darker than hers was when it disappeared, I think. The woman's hair is clearly blonde-ish, but the little girl's looks darker, though that could be because it's wet.

Has anyone considered looking through the other photos on the website to see if one of the George's can be spotted? Probably too much of a coincidence to hope for.

I also wanted to add that the description for the photo reads: "A blow dry shortly before the hair came off! -- about 1974" The first picture in the 1975 section is an article about a women's rights demonstration where 500 women from Syanon shaved their heads. Did they do this to children as well? Could this have been done to change Anna's appearance?

mysteriew
04-09-2006, 09:57 PM
The shaved heads seems to do with a demonstration against the Synanon policies about women. One of the punishments used there was the men often had their heads shaved, the women had their hair cut two inches. The women got upset over something, and some of them shaved their heads. Then Synanon adopted it as a policy to show solidarity for Synanon. They were put under pressure by the others to do so, but it seems they weren't made to shave it. So to the child, it would have seemed like a good thing to shave her head and be like the others. Though I noticed the teen didn't have her head shaved.

Shadow205
04-09-2006, 10:31 PM
The following is written by a former member of synanon:

Once a month, we went to the General Store and received any clothing that we needed. The youngest children, up to around age 7-8, shared all clothing communally. In my age group, we maintained our own clothes but often shared, swapped, or stole other people’s clothes.

As far as what the name is on the little girls overalls, I don't really think that it means that is her name. She could be wearing anyones clothes.

viking
04-10-2006, 12:10 AM
Hey all, great work recently! My PC keeps crashing and that is why my posts are sporadic. I have an awesome photo program and even with out it, the name on the girl's overalls is "Tommy". Not to argue with the poster that said it was Emily, but it very clearly reads to me, "Tommy". Growing up int the 70's and in the Bay Area, the Syanon's had a bad rep. It seemed on the surface a great program, but soon fell to the underground status of a cult. I do not care if I offend any supporters, I have connections to law enforcement there that runs very deeply. My dad was always talking about them.

As a 6 year clean and sober person, I support anything that helps people turn there lives around. I did not use Narcotics anonymous to recover, partly because my mom said "Oh, NO WAY that was started by SYANON!" (It was) :) I used another 12 step program that is perhaps the most famous one there is and though I never had a problem with alcohol, it worked for my prescription drug addiction. Okay, I am way off track.

The girl reminds me of the few pics we have seen of Anna, but I am not quite convinced. But who am I to say?! Anna'smom, can we maybe see some more pics of Anna?

Sorry for jumping in, I had a lot of catching up to do. Doogie, I am on the Calif birth/death index thingy for possible hi jacking of an Anna who's birthdate would match our Anna from a hundred years earlier. I'll let you all know.
Peace,
Mary

viking
04-10-2006, 12:13 AM
P.S. I just wanted to say sorry for my jumbled post! I was exxcited to get back on here! I have been working on a theory that maybe the Georges stole a S.S. # from a person who had been dead for a 1000 years or so. There are a lot of Anna's from the 1800's in the birth/death index. So, carry on :loser:

Shadow205
04-10-2006, 02:55 PM
Dr.Doogie,

I was just wondering if there is anyone in LE related to Ann's case that you could have take a look at these pictures?

A comparrison to Anna & the little girl at Synanon

http://s13.photobucket.com/albums/a273/shadow205/th_AWaters2.jpg (http://s13.photobucket.com/albums/a273/shadow205/?action=view&current=AWaters2.jpg)http://s13.photobucket.com/albums/a273/shadow205/th_Croppedlittlegirl.jpg (http://s13.photobucket.com/albums/a273/shadow205/?action=view&current=Croppedlittlegirl.jpg)

Hollow
04-10-2006, 02:59 PM
I think the resemblance to Anna is amazing !!! I think police should be contacted just in case. I wonder if they were stealing kids ???

If anyone finds a shoe-box with the name Dessie on it, I know who that one belongs to.:angel:

Hollow
04-10-2006, 03:01 PM
I think the resemblance to Anna is amazing !!! I think police should be contacted just in case. I wonder if they were stealing kids ???

If anyone finds a shoe-box with the name Dessie on it, I know who that one belongs to.:angel:
if this is Anna, this will be HUGE, it will be aired all over the United States. That would explain some of these disappearances of kids back then.

Hollow
04-10-2006, 03:07 PM
if this is Anna, this will be HUGE, it will be aired all over the United States. That would explain some of these disappearances of kids back then.
And, even if it turns out not to be Anna, it wouldn't hurt to give her case a little publicity. It looks like her though.

mysteriew
04-10-2006, 03:14 PM
Anna's on NCMEC. Why don't we request that they take a look at the two pictures?

Dr. Doogie
04-10-2006, 03:20 PM
Anna's on NCMEC. Why don't we request that they take a look at the two pictures?
I will contact NCMEC and get their opinion. Early on in the investigation, they volunteered to review a picture of a potenial match (we dismissed the match before they had a chance to review it), so they seem to be willing to review these sort of things. I will let you know what I find out.

kyresearcher
04-10-2006, 04:18 PM
Hollow, I agree with you that this really resembles Anna. The only thing that someone might question are the eyes, unless they can see the whole picture. She has her eyes squinched to keep the air out of them while the girl was using the hair dryer. Her face looks somewhat thinner, but who knows what she has been through.

Dr. Doogie
04-10-2006, 05:07 PM
I have sent the picture (along with a couple of other pictures that they do not have) to Gerry Nance at the NCMEC for comparison. I will let you know what they think.

I also have updated them on our recent breakthroughs (the note and the couple in the car). I will be interested in their response.

gardenmom
04-10-2006, 05:42 PM
Hollow, I agree with you that this really resembles Anna. The only thing that someone might question are the eyes, unless they can see the whole picture. She has her eyes squinched to keep the air out of them while the girl was using the hair dryer. Her face looks somewhat thinner, but who knows what she has been through.
The eyes are what do it for me. Only Annasmom knows for sure, but to my eyes Anna's eyes look like the are slightly turned down on the corner. This appears to be the case with the girl from Syanon.

Shadow205
04-10-2006, 06:06 PM
and the ears, look at the ears. Granted you can't see them that good but from what you can see they look alike to me. The name "Christian" on the little box just puts it over the top for me.

Dr. Doogie
04-10-2006, 06:24 PM
The eyes are what do it for me. Only Annasmom knows for sure, but to my eyes Anna's eyes look like the are slightly turned down on the corner. This appears to be the case with the girl from Syanon.
I have another picture on my home computer of Anna making a face with her eyes closed. When I get home, I will post it for comparison.

Annasmom
04-10-2006, 08:15 PM
The eyes are what do it for me. Only Annasmom knows for sure, but to my eyes Anna's eyes look like the are slightly turned down on the corner. This appears to be the case with the girl from Syanon.Gardenmom, both my sons have those eyes which are a little turned down at the corner.

mjak
04-10-2006, 09:55 PM
I blew the picture of Anna up and the little girl from syn up and immediatly was taken with how much the eyes looked alike. Although, its probably unlikley this is Anna there certanitly is a resembalance. The hair being wet and the photo being black and white makes the hair color questionable. Not to mention hair can be dyed. I also noticed similarites in the ear.

mjak

Annasmom
04-10-2006, 10:07 PM
This is probably nothing, but L is also Roman numeral for 50.

MagicRose99
04-10-2006, 11:00 PM
I took the other pic off Doogie's site, where Anna is turned to the right a little and superimposed the pic of this other little girl on top of it... it's eerie... the features line up pefectly! The eyebrows, eyes, nose, lips... I don't have a way to post the pic to show you all but it is a great match up!

Dr. Doogie
04-11-2006, 12:11 AM
Here is the picture of Anna where her eyes are almost closed - she is making a funny face:

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/drdoogief/detail?.dir=/aac9&.dnm=b540.jpg&.src=ph

SherlockJr
04-11-2006, 12:11 AM
go higher!!!!

Dr. Doogie
04-11-2006, 12:15 AM
go higher!!!!
To the Big Guy upstairs?

SherlockJr
04-11-2006, 12:26 AM
Someone suggested earlier that we start an e-mail chain & attaching Annas picture to the e-mail. I really believe it's worth a shot! Note in the e-mail believed to be living at Synanon.

Dr. Doogie
04-11-2006, 12:54 AM
I have posted links to all of the pictures of Anna in the Vital Statistics thread (Post #13). This is to help people find them without having to scour all of the threads for the various links.

Dr. Doogie
04-11-2006, 05:06 PM
I have been able to confirm that George Waters worked at an unidentified alcohol rehab center some time prior to January 1973. Even if this un-named center was not directly connected to Synanon, it is feasible that fellow employees might have had Synanon connections.

Annasmom, please save me from unnecessary research if you can - do you recall the name of any place that GW worked at that specifically dealt with alcohol rehab? Please PM me the name and I will research it for Synanon connections.

Dr. Doogie
04-11-2006, 05:13 PM
This is probably nothing, but L is also Roman numeral for 50.
I suspect that "L's" stands for "Liberals", but I tend to blame them for everything. :liar:

Shadow205
04-11-2006, 05:55 PM
:clap: :D I suspect that "L's" stands for "Liberals", but I tend to blame them for everything. :liar:
Good one Doogie!

Shadow205
04-11-2006, 07:14 PM
I have been able to confirm that George Waters worked at an unidentified alcohol rehab center some time prior to January 1973. Even if this un-named center was not directly connected to Synanon, it is feasible that fellow employees might have had Synanon connections.

Annasmom, please save me from unnecessary research if you can - do you recall the name of any place that GW worked at that specifically dealt with alcohol rehab? Please PM me the name and I will research it for Synanon connections.
I don't want to post a ton of Synanon information on this thread but thought I would post a few things that might or might not help you Doogie.

Synanon has had a profound impact on drug treatment in America and throughout the world. More than 2,000 therapeutic communities created to treat drug addicts--including Amity--are modeled on Synanon.
At one time, Synanon owned more than a dozen properties in California and elsewhere. All of the properties were later sold after the IRS revoked its nonprofit status. All of them except for the ranch.

This link gives a good history of Synanon
http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1222497

T'sNana
04-11-2006, 07:23 PM
Could the "L" be for lawyers? Just a thought...

Dr. Doogie
04-11-2006, 07:39 PM
Could the "L" be for lawyers? Just a thought...
My belief is that "L's" means "Lloyd's", as in Lloyd's of London where he did have an insurance policy. It could stand for lawyers, but since it was plural or possevive (the 's) and I believe that the previous debatable word is "MONY" (Mutual of New York, another insurance company), this whole note seems to refer to insurance manuevers related to the "final arrangements" for what was to occur in January 1973.

Waters had already taken out several policies on himself with Brody as the beneficiary, so why this time it was different and required a "plan" is anyone's guess, but I believe that it was somehow tied up with Anna's soon-to-be disappearance.

itsreenw
04-11-2006, 07:40 PM
Here is the picture of Anna where her eyes are almost closed - she is making a funny face:

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/drdoogief/detail?.dir=/aac9&.dnm=b540.jpg&.src=phThat picture made me cry. Annasmom, here is a big hug for you. I can't imagine going through missing that gorgeous baby for 30+ years. My belief is that there is a reason for everything that happens; I cannot think of any possible reason this could happen to anyone. I won't go into religious beliefs here but I reaaally have to read the Book later tonight to find some answers.

LinasK
04-11-2006, 08:21 PM
I suspect that "L's" stands for "Liberals", but I tend to blame them for everything. :liar:Was this post really necessary??? Why are you bashing Liberals out of the blue? Go do that in the Political Pavilion if you have to. I am a Liberal, take great offense at your post, and I was one who was following Anna's case. Why do you suddenly want to disenfranchise us? I would suggest you think about deleting your post before you offend other Liberals who were supporting your cause!

Dr. Doogie
04-11-2006, 08:57 PM
Was this post really necessary??? Why are you bashing Liberals out of the blue? Go do that in the Political Pavilion if you have to. I am a Liberal, take great offense at your post, and I was one who was following Anna's case. Why do you suddenly want to disenfranchise us? I would suggest you think about deleting your post before you offend other Liberals who were supporting your cause!
Necessary, no, but I had hoped that all who would see it as parody (notice the "liar" icon next to the post). Even though I am politically converative, the post was meant to be a jab at the conservative tendency to blame liberals for all of the world's troubles (My car won't start? Blame Bill Clinton!). I am sorry that you felt offense at the post, but I will not remove it because you are not the object of the joke - I am!

We deal with serious stuff here all the time and a little levity every once in awhile helps keep us sane. I appreciate your interest in the site and hope that your interest continues.

annemc2
04-12-2006, 12:57 AM
I have found an interesting handwritten note in the Box From Hell. Some words are undeciperable, but here it is in its entirity:

Plan

1. Contact (undecipherable, looks like "mome") (a p with a line above it) Final arrangements (a c with a line above it) L's have been made. Jan 1973

2. Apply for $100.000 (a c with a line above it) A.C.E. as B (scribbled out word)

3. 3 months later negotiate increase to 5. (undecipherable, looks like "slils") ACE

4. 3 mos later change B.

What is interesting is that this note outlines a plan where the "final arrangements" conclude with something happening in January 1973, the month and year that Anna disappeared. This plan also includes applying for a sum of money (either $100.00 with one too many zeros behind the decimal or $100,000 with a period instead of a comma in the number). It appears the plan was to apply as Brody, then change the name on the loan three months later (which does not make a lot of sense, but that was apparently the plan).

The symbols used in the note appear to be shorthand. Is anyone out there familar with these symbols?

Was the note written by Waters? Because I recognize them as medical abbreviations. The p with line above it is "after" and the c with line above it is "with." The L is probably for Lawyers, as Annasmom suggested, so:

1. Contact "mome" after final arrangements with lawyers have been made.

And would the A.C.E. be Anna Christian Eiffee? And B may be beneficiary, like they were talking about life insurance or something? So then it might say:

2. Apply for $100.000 with Anna Christian Eiffee as beneficiary

4. 3 mos later change beneficiary

Dr. Doogie
04-12-2006, 01:16 AM
Was the note written by Waters? Because I recognize them as medical abbreviations. The p with line above it is "after" and the c with line above it is "with." The L is probably for Lawyers, as Annasmom suggested, so:

1. Contact "mome" after final arrangements with lawyers have been made.

And would the A.C.E. be Anna Christian Eiffee? And B may be beneficiary, like they were talking about life insurance or something? So then it might say:

2. Apply for $100.000 with Anna Christian Eiffee as beneficiary

4. 3 mos later change beneficiary
(mome) = MONY (Mutual of New York)
ACE = Anna Christian Eifee
B=Beneficiary
L=Lawyers / Lloyd's (of London) / ? (still unclear)

Dr. Doogie
04-12-2006, 01:57 AM
A woman who was at Synanon during the timeframe that Anna disappeared is currently posting on the Rose L. Cole thread. Posters asked her if she recognized a picture of Anna and she said yes. When showed the picture of the young girl having her hair dried, she stated that she knew this girl and her parents - that she was born in Synanon (so she could not be Anna). What I am not clear on is is the girl in the picture the same girl who she identified when shown the picture of Anna, or could they be two different girls and one of them could still be Anna? The mystery intensifies...

She also stated that she did not recognize the names George Waters or George Brody. This is not a deal killer because the connection between Waters and Synanon could also have occured at the alcoholism clinic that Waters was working at (i.e. he may have worked with Synanon people but never set foot in a Synanon site).

gardenmom
04-12-2006, 02:42 AM
A woman who was at Synanon during the timeframe that Anna disappeared is currently posting on the Rose L. Cole thread. Posters asked her if she recognized a picture of Anna and she said yes. When showed the picture of the young girl having her hair dried, she stated that she knew this girl and her parents - that she was born in Synanon (so she could not be Anna. What I am not clear on is is the girl in the picture the same girl who she identified when shown the picture of Anna, or could they be two different girls and one of them could still be Anna? The mystery intensifies...

She also stated that she did not recognize the names George Waters or George Brody. This is not a deal killer because the connection between Waters and Synanon could also have occured at the alcoholism clinic that Waters was working at (i.e. he may have worked with Synanon people but never set foot in a Synanon site).

I really wanted to ask her if she thought the two girls were the same, but she really didn't want to discuss if further to protect her privacy. She also said she THINKS this girl was born in Syanon. I would like to know just how old this mystery girl was when she first remembers her. Was she a baby? If so, that would rule out Anna. But, if she was 5, then well, whole different story. As for the little girls hair being dyed, maybe not. The pic was black and white, and also blonde hair can appear very dark when wet, which hers was. I assume you will look into this further with Julie, please keep us posted.

MagicRose99
04-12-2006, 07:33 AM
Those questions were flying fast and furious at that lady. Also, when asked about Anna's picture, no one explained to her who it was and why they were asking. I think that poor lady was confused and thought it was the same girl in the pic taken from Synanon...

A woman who was at Synanon during the timeframe that Anna disappeared is currently posting on the Rose L. Cole thread. Posters asked her if she recognized a picture of Anna and she said yes. When showed the picture of the young girl having her hair dried, she stated that she knew this girl and her parents - that she was born in Synanon (so she could not be Anna. What I am not clear on is is the girl in the picture the same girl who she identified when shown the picture of Anna, or could they be two different girls and one of them could still be Anna? The mystery intensifies...

She also stated that she did not recognize the names George Waters or George Brody. This is not a deal killer because the connection between Waters and Synanon could also have occured at the alcoholism clinic that Waters was working at (i.e. he may have worked with Synanon people but never set foot in a Synanon site).

Shadow205
04-12-2006, 08:05 AM
Those questions were flying fast and furious at that lady. Also, when asked about Anna's picture, no one explained to her who it was and why they were asking. I think that poor lady was confused and thought it was the same girl in the pic taken from Synanon...
Magic,

Yes, the questions were flying pretty fast however if you will notice in Post #433 I told her that some of us hear at WS's think the 2 little girls in the pictures could be the same person and also provided her with a link to Anna's thread. HoT also explained that to her in one of her posts.

HeartofTexas
04-12-2006, 09:12 AM
MagicRose, when I posted my question to Julie, I only used the picture from Synanon of the girl whose hair was being dried... and I did mention we were wondering if it could be a girl who was abducted named Anna Waters. While things were moving incredibly fast on that thread, every attempt was made to ask questions in a clear-cut and precise manner.

Shadow, Julie was back posting on Rose's thread first thing this morning, so you might want to re-address your questions to her when you have time. Perhaps she can answer more specifically about when she first met the little girl and what her age was at the time.

natasha-cupcake
04-12-2006, 10:11 AM
(mome) = MONY (Mutual of New York)
ACE = Anna Christian Eifee
B=Beneficiary
L=Lawyers / Lloyd's (of London) / ? (still unclear)
I do not think that "L's" has anything to do with lawyers or Lloyd's of London. I think we all agree that the note refers to a plan to obtain insurance, most likely through MONY, with a scheme to change beneficiaries after increasing the dollar payout. I find it illogical to think that they would need to consult with a lawyer to obtain insurance, or wait for any "arrangements" with a separate insurance company like Lloyds of London before applying for insurance through MONY. Does Lloyd's of London even do the type of accidental death insurance that GW and GB seemed so fond of?

The term "final arrangements" and the date "Jan 1973" occuring in close proximity seems very damning to me. "Final arrangements" implies a plan separate from the plan outlined in this note. I think it's logical to assume that "Ls" may stand for someone's last name, perhaps the couple in the car and that "final arrangements" could very well refer to Anna's kidnapping.

Dr. Doogie
04-12-2006, 11:55 AM
I do not think that "L's" has anything to do with lawyers or Lloyd's of London. I think we all agree that the note refers to a plan to obtain insurance, most likely through MONY, with a scheme to change beneficiaries after increasing the dollar payout. I find it illogical to think that they would need to consult with a lawyer to obtain insurance, or wait for any "arrangements" with a separate insurance company like Lloyds of London before applying for insurance through MONY.
Point well taken.

Does Lloyd's of London even do the type of accidental death insurance that GW and GB seemed so fond of?
Evidently it did. I have a letter from Waters to Brody mentioning the type of insurance and policy numbers.

The term "final arrangements" and the date "Jan 1973" occuring in close proximity seems very damning to me. "Final arrangements" implies a plan separate from the plan outlined in this note. I think it's logical to assume that "Ls" may stand for someone's last name, perhaps the couple in the car and that "final arrangements" could very well refer to Anna's kidnapping.
Since they had done similar transactions with obtaining insurance and listing Brody as the beneficiary prior to this note, the "final arrangements" for something to happen January 1973 is something distinct from all of their other insurance purchases. Based on hindsight, it had to have been Anna's disappearance. If "L's" were "Lawyers", it may relate to some sort of a black-market adoption or some other shady legal manuever involved with Anna's abduction. "L's" may also relate to someone's last name.

T'sNana
04-12-2006, 10:36 PM
Sorry to seem illogical about the "L" being for lawyer(s) but in the field I had worked in, it was not to me...I thought of it in regards as finding loopholes or whatever in obtaining the insurance, how long to wait for someone to be declared dead after missing, info on changing the beneficiary or setting up their wills to each other, etc.

kyresearcher
04-12-2006, 11:33 PM
Someone suggested earlier that we start an e-mail chain & attaching Annas picture to the e-mail. I really believe it's worth a shot! Note in the e-mail believed to be living at Synanon. Sherlock, I think with the lack of media coverage back in 1973, this would be a great way to get the story out now. I email to different states where they probably haven't heard of Anna Waters, so I do think this would be a good idea.........

q64ceo
04-13-2006, 01:10 AM
The people at The Lineup on the Fox News might be interested. They run all sorts of stories, from cold cases to current events. With the ammount of twists this story has, I have a good feeling they will run with this story.

smile22
04-13-2006, 08:57 AM
sorta ot but kinda relates to this case i just reccently joined an aviation web board and posted a question about children in the 70s who were kidnaped and them getting through customs of some sort to be in another country they said back then the chance were proably greater than now with all the hightened security. if anyone wants me to post anything related to missing persons that involves airplanes or out of country stuff let me know

Dr. Doogie
04-13-2006, 02:35 PM
Thanks to the hard work of SherlockJr, we now have a name for the girl in the Synanon picture. Because of privacy issues and WS TOS's, that name will remain confidential for now. A few of our crack researchers are looking into what we can find out about her and her family. They have found some anomalies in the public records about this girl, but those may be paperwork issues, not evidence of suspicious activity. We will let you know what they find.

HeartofTexas
04-13-2006, 04:02 PM
I PM'd my info to Sherlock earlier today. What I find disputes what Sherlock found, but I'm not certain I'm the last word on this stuff. I very much appreciate those details being kept off of WS and thank you for doing that.

itsreenw
04-13-2006, 05:03 PM
MONY/AXA replied to my email-here it is:


Thank you for your inquiry.

Please advise full date of birth for George Waters and his last four
digits
of his social security number. Once I receive that information, I will
pass it along to the person who may be able to help you out.
If you need further assistance, please contact us again and we will be
happy to assist you.

Sincerely,
Michelle Bishop

Dr. Doogie, can you please contact Michelle Bishop at service@axaonline.com and provide her with the info she is requesting. I know you already have enough to do but if they want to speak with someone I'd rather you take over from here.

Dr. Doogie
04-13-2006, 05:12 PM
Dr. Doogie, can you please contact Michelle Bishop at service@axaonline.com and provide her with the info she is requesting. I know you already have enough to do but if they want to speak with someone I'd rather you take over from here.
Thanks, Itsreenw, for hunting this down. I will send it off this weekend.

mfmangel1
04-14-2006, 12:18 PM
Has anyone in the family requested the original police file of the investigation?This may have a lot of useful info to put together with what has been discovered here. The original case file must be available to the immediate family at this point in time.

Speaking from personal experience, I had to request the file on a very old murder investigation numerous times before I actually received the copies of the huge file instead of the one sheet initial police report.

Dr. Doogie
04-18-2006, 12:08 PM
I received the following email today from Jerry Nance at the NCMEC:

Doug,

I have forwarded the pictures to the forensic artist. The first picture of Anna is a bit off in the plane of reference needed for a comparison.
If you rotate the features around for more than just a few degrees,
everything will be off.

I have hopes for something out of the second picture, specifically, that
he can work with the ears. That is one of the best guides we have when
dealing with kids, since the features mature as they grow.

Thanks for the additional information, give my best to (Annasmom) and I
will let know what they find out. Jerry Nance

Dr. Doogie
04-18-2006, 12:14 PM
My reply to Jerry Nance:

Dear Mr. Nance:

Thank you for forwarding the photos to the proper department. I will examine theother pictures that we have of Anna and see if any of them show the same angle and the picture of the two girls. This may be of help to your forensic artists. I will forward those pictures shortly.

The picture of the two girls is dated "about 1975". They are a picture of two children who were being raised in Synanon in Oakland, CA. As you may be aware, Synanon started out as an innovative drug treatment program, but by the 1970's had declared itself a religion and had become, by most definitions, a "cult". In addition to drug abusers, there were many members who were "lifestylers" (people who had no drug problem, but chose to live within the seclusion that Synanon offered. Most of the children in Synanon were the offspring of these lifestylers.

It has been suggested by members of Websleuths.com that Anna could have been placed in Synanon by her birthfather for safekeeping. While no evidence exists that Dr. Waters was a member of Synanon, he was employed at an alcoholism clinic in San Francisco at a time when Synanon-educated drug and alcohol counselors were a major force in the local treatment community, so the odds are in favor of the fact that he knew several members. The hypothesis is that he convinced members to abduct Anna and raise her within the confines of their church.

At first, I was not convinced, but I now am more open to this possibility. The younger girl in the picture does seem to look like Anna to this untrained eye. A former member of Synanon said that she recognized a picture of Anna as one of the children who was at the facility (however, she identified her by two different possible names, both of which can be traced by birth records to not being Anna). Her memories are undoubtedly murky with the passing of thirty years, but a possible sighting of Anna is certainly worth us following up on.

I anxiously await the NCMEC's analysis. Thank you, as always, for your work and dedication.

(Dr. Doogie)

Dr. Doogie
04-18-2006, 12:21 PM
Jerry Nance also apologised the delay in his response. His assistant, a very nice woman by the name of Stacie Dotson, has been ill for several months and as a result, he has been falling behind in his busy work load.

Stacie has been very helpful as a resource at the NCMEC for us. I would ask that, if you are prone to this sort of thing, please keep Stacie in your thoughts and prayers.

Dr. Doogie
04-18-2006, 05:38 PM
I received a second email from Jerry Nance this afternoon asking for detailed information concerning GW and GB and the possible Synanon connection. I answered his questions, but also suggested that he visit this forum for a more detailed listing of what we have all been accomplishing here.

I am grateful for this followup by him - his input and expertise will be extremely helpful in furthering the search!

mysteriew
04-18-2006, 06:53 PM
It's not been dismissed and they are looking at it seriously, so that is good news. BTW, excellent letters Dr. D.

Dr. Doogie
04-24-2006, 11:22 AM
I received an message from Annasmom this morning that the phone lines were down for the entire Half Moon Bay area, so she may not be able to visit the forum for a few days. A landslide took out a fiber optic line and has blocked the east/west route to HMB. This is on top of a landslide from a few weeks ago that has closed the north/south route. This means that the only current means to leave HMB is to travel south many miles, then cut across the Coastal Mountain range on one lane dirt/gravel roads. Aahh...now I remember why I moved from Half Moon Bay!

PonderingThings
04-24-2006, 11:31 AM
Here is a look at some of the roads in Half Moon Bay - Article is from mid April but it gives a sense of what's going on.

http://www.hmbreview.com/

Dr. Doogie
04-24-2006, 11:58 AM
Here is a look at some of the roads in Half Moon Bay - Article is from mid April but it gives a sense of what's going on.

http://www.hmbreview.com/
What you cannot see in the pics in this article is that three-to-five feet from the side of the collapsing road is a two-hundred foot drop staright down into the ocean. The Devil's Slide area (the road in the pictures) usually claims a couple of lives a year (mostly drunks who do not make one of the many turns on the highway), proving that Charles Darwin eventually went into the roadway engineering business.

Dr. Doogie
04-24-2006, 12:20 PM
I just reread the commumique' from Annasmom and I was incorrect: the east-west artery is not closed. The landslide that took out the phone lines is on that road, but the road is not closed. Sorry...my mistake.

Dr. Doogie
04-25-2006, 08:51 PM
Annasbro has forwarded some pictures of the farm and house where Anna disappeared from. They were taken in the 1972-73 era, so they reflect exactly what everything looked like at the time.

The mailbox area where Anna probably disappeared:
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/drdoogief/detail?.dir=aac9&.dnm=9da5re2.jpg&.src=ph

The house where the family lived:
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/drdoogief/detail?.dir=aac9&.dnm=2238re2.jpg&.src=ph

The backyard and farm area:
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/drdoogief/detail?.dir=aac9&.dnm=db1bre2.jpg&.src=ph
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/drdoogief/detail?.dir=aac9&.dnm=9b19re2.jpg&.src=ph
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/drdoogief/detail?.dir=aac9&.dnm=a698re2.jpg&.src=ph

mysteriew
04-27-2006, 07:11 PM
Nothing from NCMEC yet?

Dr. Doogie
04-27-2006, 07:12 PM
Nothing from NCMEC yet?
Not yet. Jerry Nance may be waiting for me to forward additional pictures of Anna. I haven't had much free time recently, but I will make a point to get this done this weekend.

SherlockJr
04-27-2006, 10:04 PM
It's time to get more aggressive in the search for Anna. I feel Doogie has found enough evidence that Anna is alive. I would like to get ready for the massive e-mailing. I have set up a yahoo e-mail, reuniteanna@yahoo.com , send an e-mail to this address to be added to contact list so we can get started. We will ask everyone to forward this e-mail to everyone on their list, and so on, and so on. We have people in this forum from everywhere. If anyone has any ideas what to write up in this e-mail, by all means send your thoughts suggestions to the above address. The e-mail will include a link to a webpage that was created for Anna.

kyresearcher
04-28-2006, 12:51 AM
SherlockJr. your inbox is full- please empty it

Dr. Doogie
05-01-2006, 11:16 AM
I have requested a copy of the original case file and notes from the San Mateo Sheriffs Department via email. I hope to get a response soon.

I emphasized to them that the purpose of this request is to allow us to develop leads that they would follow up on. I do not want to lose this resource by giving them an opportunity to bail out on the search. They have resources that we do not have, but we have the advantage of unlimited time and focus. Hopefully, we can use both to our common benefit.

mfmangel1
05-01-2006, 03:02 PM
I have looked at the photos of the road and property that you have posted several times now and the same thoughts keep coming to me.

While the lay of the land in the back is lovely, it would be very hard to traverse, especially while carrying a child. I also believe that in the short amount of time that Annasmom realized that Anna was missing they would have been able to see someone on the hills of the property.

However, the road running in the front of the house appears to be fairly narrow with a lot of trees on either side, except where houses are. There would be a lot of places to hide to wait for an opportunity and to hide to wait to be picked up.

I know many may scoff, but I truly believe that the Georges planned Anna's abduction, observed the routine of the household, had someone else approach Anna while she was playing alone (she probably thought this was another friend of her Mom or Dad Joe), the perpetrator used a drug to disable her for the time being and waited in the woods with Anna to be picked up, by whomever was watching the scenario unfold. The Georges then placed her for adoption with another couple through a not so legit attorney or placed her with a couple in one of Brody's wacky groups of interest.

JMHO.

mfmangel1
05-01-2006, 03:07 PM
I have requested a copy of the original case file and notes from the San Mateo Sheriffs Department via email. I hope to get a response soon.

I emphasized to them that the purpose of this request is to allow us to develop leads that they would follow up on. I do not want to lose this resource by giving them an opportunity to bail out on the search. They have resources that we do not have, but we have the advantage of unlimited time and focus. Hopefully, we can use both to our common benefit.

That was an excellent way to present the request. I truly hope you receive a postive response quickly!!!! :dance:

Dr. Doogie
05-02-2006, 07:47 PM
The detective who is currently assigned the case sent the following response to my request for the case files:

"I am in the process of retrieving the case file/evidence for this case and need to review it. Once I have the information, I will be in contact with you. I do not know how long it will take for all of the hard files to be retrieved, but will update you as I find out."

It looks positive on us getting copies of the files. I will keep you updated.

WhiteWolf
05-02-2006, 10:02 PM
The detective who is currently assigned the case sent the following response to my request for the case files:

"I am in the process of retrieving the case file/evidence for this case and need to review it. Once I have the information, I will be in contact with you. I do not know how long it will take for all of the hard files to be retrieved, but will update you as I find out."

It looks positive on us getting copies of the files. I will keep you updated.



I'm impressed, you silver-tongued sleuth! You managed to get your foot in the door with LE without getting the door slammed on it. You've also given the detective a friendly push to reexamine the case. Kudos!

Annasmom
05-02-2006, 10:40 PM
I'm impressed, you silver-tongued sleuth! You managed to get your foot in the door with LE without getting the door slammed on it. You've also given the detective a friendly push to reexamine the case. Kudos!
Doogie, you are wonderful!

HeartofTexas
05-02-2006, 10:42 PM
Unbelievable, Doogie! That's progress. Kudos!

SherlockJr
05-03-2006, 12:05 AM
:woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:

mfmangel1
05-03-2006, 12:44 AM
YES!!!!!!

:woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:

That is great news, Doc!

gardenmom
05-03-2006, 01:15 AM
You 'da bomb! :blowkiss: Annasmom, still think about you all the time, and always check in.

mysteriew
05-03-2006, 02:28 AM
Wonderful job Dr. D!!!!
This case has sat in limbo for years! But with all of the work everybody is doing, baby steps forward are turning into big steps forward!

Kudos to Annasmom for her openness and patience, to Dr. D. for the research work, and above all for his persistance, and to everybody else for research, ideas, inspiration, alertness and everything else.

PS, Dr.D did you get the rest of the pics sent in to NCMEC?

Joe Ford
05-03-2006, 03:40 AM
The detective who is currently assigned the case sent the following response to my request for the case files:

"I am in the process of retrieving the case file/evidence for this case and need to review it. Once I have the information, I will be in contact with you. I do not know how long it will take for all of the hard files to be retrieved, but will update you as I find out."

It looks positive on us getting copies of the files. I will keep you updated.

Good work Dr. D !!!

Dr. Doogie
05-03-2006, 11:49 AM
I am blushing here! Can I quote your praises to my wife when she thinks that I am a S.O.B.?

PS, Dr.D did you get the rest of the pics sent in to NCMEC?
I checked my files and did not see any pictures that would fit the description of what they were looking for. Annasmom, if you have any additional pictures that you have not forwarded to me, could you scan them (when you have time, of course)?

mysteriew
05-03-2006, 02:00 PM
I am blushing here! Can I quote your praises to my wife when she thinks that I am a S.O.B.?

LOL, you can't be that bad at home! You are always a perfect gentleman on here. Of course you spend so much time on this that she may be feeling a little neglected. Set up a "date" night once a week and take her for dinner and a movie or something.

GraceBlue
05-04-2006, 11:54 AM
I've been following this thread for a very long time (before I was able to get registered on here.) I thought I'd join now.

I dont know if this has already been look into but I found out about zabasearch.com from the Delia Cly thread and typed in Anna's name. The dateis a little off but you never know, right? Here's what I got:

ANNA C WATERS Born 1970

http://www.zabasearch.com/query1_zaba.php?sname=anna%20christian%20waters&state=ALL&ref=%24ref&se=%24se&doby=00&name_style=1 (http://)

Dr. Doogie
05-04-2006, 03:22 PM
I checked my files and did not see any pictures that would fit the description of what they were looking for. Annasmom, if you have any additional pictures that you have not forwarded to me, could you scan them (when you have time, of course)?
Annasmom has sent two additional pictures of Anna from approximately one-to-two years prior to Anna's disappearance that I have forwarded to Jerry Nance at the NCMEC. These pictures do show the ears of Anna, which Mr. Nance indicated were the best means of making a match. I will let you all know when we hear something back.

Dr. Doogie
05-05-2006, 05:41 PM
Here is a seemingly "out-of-the-blue" question, but one that may have implications in our research: Does anyone know what the name "Kay" is short for? Jim is short for James and Don is short for Donald, etc. Would Kay be short for Katherine, Karen, something else?

MagicRose99
05-05-2006, 07:48 PM
It may just stand for Kay... I grew up with a girl from a rather strange family... they had for children: Bee, Kay, Dee and Jay... LOL!



Here is a seemingly "out-of-the-blue" question, but one that may have implications in our research: Does anyone know what the name "Kay" is short for? Jim is short for James and Don is short for Donald, etc. Would Kay be short for Katherine, Karen, something else?

Annasmom
05-05-2006, 08:57 PM
Here is a seemingly "out-of-the-blue" question, but one that may have implications in our research: Does anyone know what the name "Kay" is short for? Jim is short for James and Don is short for Donald, etc. Would Kay be short for Katherine, Karen, something else? Doogie, I have known Katherines who called themselves Kay.

smile22
05-05-2006, 09:10 PM
or katie my sister is kathryn but we call her katie and my brother sometimes calls her kay or it could stand for kayleigh im gona check a baby names website and see if they have any variations for kay or something

itsreenw
05-07-2006, 01:16 AM
Here is a seemingly "out-of-the-blue" question, but one that may have implications in our research: Does anyone know what the name "Kay" is short for? Jim is short for James and Don is short for Donald, etc. Would Kay be short for Katherine, Karen, something else? It could be a variety of names Katherine and Karen & Kate sure.

I think it depends on the era. Of course the newer generation has Kaitlynn, Kaylee, Kayla, Katura, Kaycee, etc...

Old Broad
05-08-2006, 12:00 PM
Kay also can be a common middle name especially in the south.

Old Broad

PaulaKay
05-08-2006, 02:34 PM
My middle name is Kay...as well as my mom's.

Dr. Doogie
05-08-2006, 02:46 PM
I posted the following on the "Possible Family Abduction" thread. This is why I was curious about the name "Kay":

I am preparing to approach the San Mateo Sheriff Dept. with the a request to investigate the following:

"Margaret Kukoda (the woman who lived with Brody prior to Brody living with Waters) died in 1967. Brody evidently handled her estate including her personal effects and papers. Margaret's Social Security number is evidently still considered active by the SSA. Evidently, they show the user as a "Kay Kukoda", not Margaret. These factoids lead me to be very suspicious of this SSN.

This may be how GW and GB were able to hide Anna as far as a paper trail - she became "Kay Kukoda", complete with a SSN. What I would like the SMCS to investigate is any activity on Margaret's SSN after 1967 (in particular, after 1973). If there is activity on it, we may have direct proof of what happened, and even better, an actual paper trail of who Anna is today.

I have been investigating (along with some of the researchers here on WS) a relative of Margaret who is the same age as Anna. She has a name that is similar to "Kay Kukoda" (due to both TOS and other concerns, I do not want to post her actual name here now). If we can tie employment (and/or) school records on Margaret's SSN to this relative's known history, then I believe that we will have found Anna.

There is a lot of loose ends with the above scenario that need to wrapped up before it is solid enough to present to LE, but we are making progress at making that happen. If any of you WSers have access to background/employment checks, please PM me and I can provide additional details necessary to do such a investigation. The more that we can do, the more likely that LE will followup on this and finally bring Anna home."

Shadow205
05-08-2006, 03:22 PM
Wow Dr. D, it sounds like you are actually getting close to finding Anna. Oh my, what a reunion that would be. I can't even imagine what you must be feeling. This sounds like such a promising lead.:woohoo:

Dr. Doogie
05-08-2006, 07:24 PM
Two quick updates:

1) Gerald Nance of the NCMEC is continuing to look into the possibility that the girl in the Synanon picture is Anna. He did mention that he now has three cases with possible Synanon connections. One is Anna, one is probably Rose Cole, and one other is unknown.

2) We have gotten one preliminary report that there has been no activity on Margaret Kukoda's SSN since her death in 1967. This was through a third-party information provider and is not definitive, but is somewhat disappointing. We are trying a couple of different approaches to obtain this info and will see where the evidence leads us (hopefully not off the cliff!).

mbroemsen
05-08-2006, 08:07 PM
Has anyone looked into contacting the two local journalists that won a pulitzer prize for their converage of synanon? perhaps they could shed some more light on the situation?

January 1980: Synanon filed slander suits against Dave and Cathy Mitchell and Richard Ofshe for their articles on Synanon in the Point Reyes Light newspaper. The Mitchells and Ofshe had worked together to write exposes on Synanon, for which they earned Pulitzer Prizes....

Shadow205
05-08-2006, 08:33 PM
Has anyone looked into contacting the two local journalists that won a pulitzer prize for their converage of synanon? perhaps they could shed some more light on the situation?

January 1980: Synanon filed slander suits against Dave and Cathy Mitchell and Richard Ofshe for their articles on Synanon in the Point Reyes Light newspaper. The Mitchells and Ofshe had worked together to write exposes on Synanon, for which they earned Pulitzer Prizes....
I have attempted to contact Dave Mitchell, got his answering machine and left a message. He never returned the call. I have been thinking about trying him again. I spoke with a lady who works at the Point Reyes Light. She is the one who told me of a church who helped people who were leaving Synanon. I think that she was talking about the Underground Railroad. She really did not have alot of information to share. She said that people would show up at the Church in the middle of the night(From Synanon) and be gone the next morning. She said that she had no idea where they were taken.

Dr. Doogie
05-10-2006, 08:15 PM
I heard from the detective in charge of anna's case with the San Mateo Sheriff's Department today. He reviewed the files and says that he can authorize them to be released to Annasmom. I will work with Annasmom to get the paperwork filed so we can access them.

He also stated that the District Attorney's office had files on the case which I was not aware of. Evidently, they looked in Anna as a possible match to Sharon Marshall a couple of years ago! They came to the same conclusion that we did - that Anna was not Sharon. It is nice to see that they took the initative to investigate this! We will also try to get these files.

Lastly, I have requested that the Detective compare the age-progression of Anna to the DMV picture of the relative of Margaret Kukoda to see if enough of a resemblence to warrant further investigation into her as possibly being Anna.

A long journey is done by taking one step at a time...

HeartofTexas
05-10-2006, 08:43 PM
Lastly, I have requested that the Detective compare the age-progression of Anna to the DMV picture of the relative of Margaret Kukoda to see if enough of a resemblence to warrant further investigation into her as possibly being Anna.


Doogie, does that mean you've seen the DMV picture of Margaret's relative yourself, or just that you want the San Mateo Sheriff to access the DMV picture via his resources?

Annasmom
05-10-2006, 09:42 PM
I have attempted to contact Dave Mitchell, got his answering machine and left a message. He never returned the call. I have been thinking about trying him again. I spoke with a lady who works at the Point Reyes Light. She is the one who told me of a church who helped people who were leaving Synanon. I think that she was talking about the Underground Railroad. She really did not have alot of information to share. She said that people would show up at the Church in the middle of the night(From Synanon) and be gone the next morning. She said that she had no idea where they were taken.There was an article in yesterday's New York Times to the effect that Dave Mitchell no longer owns the newspaper. Unfortunately, I didn't save the paper and don't know how much the new owner would know.

mfmangel1
05-10-2006, 10:32 PM
I heard from the detective in charge of anna's case with the San Mateo Sheriff's Department today. He reviewed the files and says that he can authorize them to be released to Annasmom. I will work with Annasmom to get the paperwork filed so we can access them.

He also stated that the District Attorney's office had files on the case which I was not aware of. Evidently, they looked in Anna as a possible match to Sharon Marshall a couple of years ago! They came to the same conclusion that we did - that Anna was not Sharon. It is nice to see that they took the initative to investigate this! We will also try to get these files.

Lastly, I have requested that the Detective compare the age-progression of Anna to the DMV picture of the relative of Margaret Kukoda to see if enough of a resemblence to warrant further investigation into her as possibly being Anna.

A long journey is done by taking one step at a time...

Well, Dr. Doogie.... I came here tonight seeking some good news and you have provided it with the news about the files. I am overjoyed and eager for you to share the info with us.

You have made my day with this update! :blowkiss:

Shadow205
05-10-2006, 10:33 PM
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/12/20/DDGMJG9I221.DTL


After 30 years as the muckraker of West Marin, Dave Mitchell has passed the torch -- the Light



Jesse Hamlin, Chronicle Staff Writer (jhamlin@sfchronicle.com)

Tuesday, December 20, 2005

Another article can be read at this link http://www.marinij.com/marin/ci_3613088



Article Launched: 03/17/2006 08:51:00 AM PST
New editor, old editor feuding in Point Reyes
Nancy Isles Nation
The Pulitzer Prize-winning former editor and publisher of the Point Reyes Light has been slapped with a temporary restraining order by the ex-prosecutor who replaced him at the weekly West Marin newspaper.

The order bars David Mitchell, the muckraking journalist who published the Point Reyes Light for 30 years, from the newspaper office where he used to hang his hat. The order also compels him to stay away from the new publisher, Robert Plotkin, 35, a former Monterey County deputy district attorney who bought the Light from Mitchell and has dreams of turning it into "the New York Times of West Marin." Plotkin petitioned for the temporary restraining order on Feb. 17, a day after he said Mitchell grabbed him by the neck and tried to run him down with his car.

more at the above link




It looks like Mr. Mitchell is having some problems. I guess that explains why he didn't return my phone call.

mfmangel1
05-10-2006, 10:50 PM
Lastly, I have requested that the Detective compare the age-progression of Anna to the DMV picture of the relative of Margaret Kukoda to see if enough of a resemblence to warrant further investigation into her as possibly being Anna.

A long journey is done by taking one step at a time...
Okay, I am desperately trying to refrain from jumping to conclusions here, but....

GB thought Anna was the reincarnation of Margaret, although Anna had been born prior to Margaret's death....:waitasec:

Is it possible GB thought that giving Anna to someone in the Kukoda family was, in effect, replacing Margaret in the family after her death?

Dear Lord, I can not believe I just typed that! :slap:

HeartofTexas
05-10-2006, 11:01 PM
It looks like Mr. Mitchell is having some problems. I guess that explains why he didn't return my phone call.LOL! I'd say he's staying real busy between trying to run people down with his car and choking them! Perhaps now that he's barred from the newspaper office he'll have time to return a few phone calls.

Has anyone ever tried to buy a copy of the book that Mitchell wrote re Synanon? If someone has Paypal, you can buy a copy of the book for 83 cents on Ebay, with $2.99 shipping. If you need to write a check or pay in some other method, the best price I saw was $2.99 for the book and $3.49 for shipping. Here's the url for the one that's 83 cents in case someone's interested:

http://cgi.ebay.com/The-Light-on-Synanon-How-a-country-weekly-exposed-a_W0QQitemZ4616684502QQcategoryZ378QQssPageNameZWD 1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

And here's the url for the copy of the book that's $2.99... this auction has a run-down of each chapter which might be helpful in determining if buying the book is worthwhile:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Light-on-Synanon-1980-1st-Pulitzer-Alcoholics-Anonymous_W0QQitemZ4639172911QQcategoryZ378QQssPag eNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Shadow205
05-10-2006, 11:41 PM
I just bought the book on ebay. Maybe there are some pictures in it.

Dr. Doogie
05-11-2006, 11:48 AM
Doogie, does that mean you've seen the DMV picture of Margaret's relative yourself, or just that you want the San Mateo Sheriff to access the DMV picture via his resources?
I have not. I did do some "drive-by" surviellence of the house and caught a glimpse of the woman in question, but it was too quick and she was in the garage in the shadows, so I do not know if she resembles the age-progressed photo. (It is a fine line between investigation and stalking!)

My hope is that the detective can access the picture through his resources and do a quick comparison. This would be the most effecient means of obtaining that info - we could spend weeks trying to nail this down, where he should be able to access it in a matter of minutes. We will see if he is willing to do this.

One other interesting occured during my discussion with the detective: he mentioned that a copy of the case files had been obtained in the mid 1970's by a woman private investigator (I missed the name and am going to email the detective this morning for that info). I assumed at the time that this was someone that Annasmom and family had hired to look into the case, but when I asked Annasmom about it, she had no idea who this person was! The family did hire a private investigator about this time, but it was a man - maybe this woman was an associate of his and everything is on the up and up. But another possibility is that since files can only be released with a family member's permission, this woman was working for George Waters! If this is the case, either he didn't know what happened to Anna and was doing more than we ever thought to find her, or (more likely) he was trying to find out what info LE had on him. I will let you know what I find.

Dr. Doogie
05-11-2006, 11:54 AM
Okay, I am desperately trying to refrain from jumping to conclusions here, but....

GB thought Anna was the reincarnation of Margaret, although Anna had been born prior to Margaret's death....:waitasec:

Is it possible GB thought that giving Anna to someone in the Kukoda family was, in effect, replacing Margaret in the family after her death?

Dear Lord, I can not believe I just typed that! :slap:
I hope it doesn't sound too crazy, but that is exactly my working hypothesis. One correction though (and I am the source of the incorrect information), Margaret died August 3, 1967 and Anna was born September 25, 1967 (a few weeks after Margaret's death). I had erroneously stated that Anna was born before Margaret's death.

Dr. Doogie
05-11-2006, 11:58 AM
... this auction has a run-down of each chapter which might be helpful in determining if buying the book is worthwhile...
With Mr. Mitchell's recent activities, perhaps "run-down" is a poor choice of words... :laugh:

HeartofTexas
05-11-2006, 12:01 PM
perhaps "run-down" is a poor choice of words... :laugh:
Good one! I stand corrected... oops!

Shadow205
05-11-2006, 12:06 PM
Dr.Doogie,

I don't know if you saw my post but I bought the book that HoT found on Ebay. I'll post when I get it. Who knows there might some helpfull tidbit of information in it.

Dr. Doogie
05-11-2006, 12:09 PM
Dr.Doogie,

I don't know if you saw my post but I bought the book that HoT found on Ebay. I'll post when I get it. Who knows there might some helpfull tidbit of information in it.
Thanks, Shadow. Let us know what you find.

smile22
05-11-2006, 12:40 PM
I have not. I did do some "drive-by" surviellence of the house and caught a glimpse of the woman in question, but it was too quick and she was in the garage in the shadows, so I do not know if she resembles the age-progressed photo. (It is a fine line between investigation and stalking!)

My hope is that the detective can access the picture through his resources and do a quick comparison. This would be the most effecient means of obtaining that info - we could spend weeks trying to nail this down, where he should be able to access it in a matter of minutes. We will see if he is willing to do this.

One other interesting occured during my discussion with the detective: he mentioned that a copy of the case files had been obtained in the mid 1970's by a woman private investigator (I missed the name and am going to email the detective this morning for that info). I assumed at the time that this was someone that Annasmom and family had hired to look into the case, but when I asked Annasmom about it, she had no idea who this person was! The family did hire a private investigator about this time, but it was a man - maybe this woman was an associate of his and everything is on the up and up. But another possibility is that since files can only be released with a family member's permission, this woman was working for George Waters! If this is the case, either he didn't know what happened to Anna and was doing more than we ever thought to find her, or (more likely) he was trying to find out what info LE had on him. I will let you know what I find.


that new info brings a new light to things and has to be looked into i find it strange that a women was looking into the info and annasmmom was not contacted about it kinda strange dont u think

Dr. Doogie
05-11-2006, 12:44 PM
I emailed the detective asking for the exact name and which family member authorized the release. Once I have the name, I will contact the PI that Annasmom originally hired (and who continues to assist us with the search) and see if she was an associate of his.

MagicRose99
05-11-2006, 01:09 PM
From everything I've read here, GW and GB were misers with money... would they really have spent money on a PI? Aren't PI's "expensive"?

.... But another possibility is that since files can only be released with a family member's permission, this woman was working for George Waters! If this is the case, either he didn't know what happened to Anna and was doing more than we ever thought to find her, or (more likely) he was trying to find out what info LE had on him. I will let you know what I find.

Dr. Doogie
05-11-2006, 01:18 PM
From everything I've read here, GW and GB were misers with money... would they really have spent money on a PI? Aren't PI's "expensive"?
I believe that they were pretty tight with GW's money in general, but GW had spent money for attornies for both his draft case and his divorce, so he would spend money when he felt it necessary.

Dr. Doogie
05-11-2006, 01:31 PM
I received the following email from the detective:

"Mr. French,

I retrieved the information you requested and compared the color DMV photo print of (the Kukoda relative) to Anna's age progression photo. I also had others in my office compare the photos and ask if there was any way possible the two pictures might be the same individual. It is everyone's opinion that the photos are of two different people. Additionally, the eye color in the DMV photo is difficult to see clearly, but is listed as a color other than brown, which is the eye color listed for Anna.

The female we spoke of yesterday was named (MH - edited for TOS). The paperwork we have indicates she was a private investigator from Berkeley, California and she was retained by Mr. and Mrs. Ford (Annasmom and Joe Ford). The date on the letter requesting a copy of the report is May 16, 1974."

My next step is to contact the actual PI that the family hired and see if Ms. H was an associate. I will let you know.

The information concerning the relative of Margaret Kukoda pretty much excludes this woman as being Anna. It does not disprove the possibilty that Anna might have been raised by Margaret's family, but it does eliminate this woman as Anna.

mfmangel1
05-11-2006, 04:08 PM
I hope it doesn't sound too crazy, but that is exactly my working hypothesis. One correction though (and I am the source of the incorrect information), Margaret died August 3, 1967 and Anna was born September 25, 1967 (a few weeks after Margaret's death). I had erroneously stated that Anna was born before Margaret's death.
Unfortunately, considering GW and GB....The hypothesis may be right on track.
Thanks for the corrected info. The fact that Anna was born so quickly after Margaret's death would surely reinforce GB's conviction that Margaret had been reincarnated and adding the name Eifee would tie Anna/Margaret to him.:(

Now I have to wonder if Margaret's name was numerically changed....

Dr. Doogie
05-11-2006, 04:47 PM
Now I have to wonder if Margaret's name was numerically changed....
According to census records, she was born Margaret Kukoda. I do not know about any middle name shenanigans that may have occured.

kyresearcher
05-11-2006, 05:21 PM
DrDoogie, while you have the detective's attention, have you ask him if he could find out who the phone # that you found in the BFH is listed for? I know we have searched with no results but him being in LE he may have a better chance on getting the info.

Annasmom
05-11-2006, 06:42 PM
I received the following email from the detective:

"Mr. French,

I retrieved the information you requested and compared the color DMV photo print of (the Kukoda relative) to Anna's age progression photo. I also had others in my office compare the photos and ask if there was any way possible the two pictures might be the same individual. It is everyone's opinion that the photos are of two different people. Additionally, the eye color in the DMV photo is difficult to see clearly, but is listed as a color other than brown, which is the eye color listed for Anna.

The female we spoke of yesterday was named (MH - edited for TOS). The paperwork we have indicates she was a private investigator from Berkeley, California and she was retained by Mr. and Mrs. Ford (Annasmom and Joe Ford). The date on the letter requesting a copy of the report is May 16, 1974."

My next step is to contact the actual PI that the family hired and see if Ms. H was an associate. I will let you know.

The information concerning the relative of Margaret Kukoda pretty much excludes this woman as being Anna. It does not disprove the possibilty that Anna might have been raised by Margaret's family, but it does eliminate this woman as Anna.
Allow for the possibility that I am having a senior moment regarding this investigator, but I'd think at least we would have some paperwork from her or some mention of her in my rather extensive files, and I have none. It is possible that she was working with T.

Dr. Doogie
05-11-2006, 06:59 PM
Allow for the possibility that I am having a senior moment regarding this investigator, but I'd think at least we would have some paperwork from her or some mention of her in my rather extensive files, and I have none. It is possible that she was working with T.
I have sent an email to T (the PI) asking if he recognises the name. A google search of the woman's name turns up primarily someone who gives lectures to business women concerning technology. I recall that T is one of a "new breed" of PI's that came from non-law enforcement backgrounds, and it is conceivable that MH came from and eventually returned to a business/technology career.

I know that T had a trial in GA that he was testifying in a couple of weeks ago and does have a trial upcomng here in Northern California very soon, so hopefully we will catch him in his office between testimonies and can get a response soon.

I did not see her name in either the BFH or your manuscript, so if she is an associate of T, then you may never have been aware of her. I think that you can set aside your fear of a nursing home for awhile...

Niteowl
05-11-2006, 11:18 PM
I have been reading about Anna, and want to say how much I admire the intellect and skill of everyone here. Annasmom, I fervently hope that your daughter will be found.
I will post a few ideas that have occurred to me over the past few weeks. I am a slow typist, so it make take me awhile.

This goes back a bit but, referring to Dr. Doogie's Post #70, the Plan:
1. Could Mont refer to "mont-de-piete" see definition: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mont_de_Piete? A more elaborate search discusses it as a lending institution for the poor, but mont-de-piete has come to be known around the globe as pawnbrokers.

2. Could the "L's" be liberators see this definition http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/liberate? GW would maybe know that L in chemistry is liberate (and check out that euphemism!)

3. Did the Gs insure one of themselves with ACE as the beneficiary and later change the beneficiary to either :ACE under her new name;or make the Mont-de-piete the beneficiary as a fee for services?

I know the discussion has moved forward from this topic, but I thought that you might be interested.

SherlockJr
05-12-2006, 12:04 AM
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Mont may refer to: Mont is the name or part of the name of several communes in France.

Annasmom
05-12-2006, 11:45 AM
I have been reading about Anna, and want to say how much I admire the intellect and skill of everyone here. Annasmom, I fervently hope that your daughter will be found.

This goes back a bit but, referring to Dr. Doogie's Post #70, the Plan:
1. Could Mont refer to "mont-de-piete" s
2. Could the "L's" be liberators

3. Did the Gs insure one of themselves with ACE as the beneficiary and later change the beneficiary to either :ACE under her new name;or make the Mont-de-piete the beneficiary as a fee for services?

I know the discussion has moved forward from this topic, but I thought that you might be interested.
Niteowl, welcome, and thanks for your observations. Brainstorming on the forum so far has yielded more ideas than I would have thought possible. I'll keep your possibilities in mind. Annasmom

SherlockJr
05-12-2006, 12:29 PM
[QUOTE=Niteowl]This goes back a bit but, referring to Dr. Doogie's Post #70, the Plan:
2. Could the "L's" be liberators see this definition http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/liberate? GW would maybe know that L in chemistry is liberate (and check out that euphemism!) [QUOTE]

I still look at the note with the plan and see Beneficiary, but I still think he changed it scribbling out the word Beneficiary and changing the "B" to an "L".

Niteowl
05-12-2006, 01:30 PM
Sherlock
Yes, I agree that the B was changed to an L. Could the L's all stand for one thing then, like a last name beginning with L?
And in this Plan, who do you think is the final beneficiary? the party(ies) who took the child and placed her elsewhere for a fee that would be paid to them sometime down the road?
You can see I'm stuck on this note.

SherlockJr
05-15-2006, 02:33 PM
Has Anna's birth record been checked at the courthouse to show if it has been amended?
Is there anyway to find out in state of CA of all birth records that were amended in Jan 1973 especially for those who were born in 1967?

Not sure if it has been mentioned about the A.C.E. is also an insurance company. However according the the note, it would not make sence to put an insurance company as beneficiary.

Dr. Doogie
05-15-2006, 02:39 PM
Has Anna's birth record been checked at the courthouse to show if it has been amended?
Annasmom just recently obtained a copy of Anna's birth certificate. Nothing had been admended on it since the change to Eifiee in 1967. The fact that the BC was not sealed means that a "legal" adoption had not occured.

HeartofTexas
05-15-2006, 03:14 PM
I once again wrote to the owner of the Philly Boxing Site requesting DOB and/or date of death info on Bobby Wolgast and here's the reply I got today:

I am sorry but I don't have the dates of Wolgast's birth and death available. If I run across them I will send them to you.

Dr. Doogie
05-15-2006, 04:03 PM
Not sure if it has been mentioned about the A.C.E. is also an insurance company. However according the the note, it would not make sence to put an insurance company as beneficiary.

I don't have access to my notes right now, but I believe that I looked into this a couple of months ago and the insurance company known as A.C.E. did not come into existence until several years after 1973.

hoping4truth
05-16-2006, 04:11 AM
I know this was talked about a while ago, and I'm new to the board (and thread) but after looking at the copy of the "Plan" here are my thoughts:

Could #1 read: Contact MOND(Could this be a last name?) p(with line) Final arrangements have been made c(with line) L's (maybe "links" or liason) have been made.

ACE also stands for Acute Cardiac Event (how I see the letters in #2) <Wasn't he a dr?>
ALFC (which is what I see when I look at #3) stands for Atlantic Liberty Financial Corperation
AIFC (which could be another way of reading #3) stands for Average Incremental Financial Cost

Also, could the letters with lines over them be a repeat of a word used already in his notes:

Read:
1) Contact Mond PLAN (he titled the note "Plan) final arrangements with CONTACT (word directly above the c with line over it) L's have been made (made has different contexts - maybe this "made" referrs to "found out" instead of "created")

2) Apply for $100,000 CONTACT ACE as L (underlined three times to see change - maybe he was going to impersonate someone?)

3) 3 months later negotiate increase to 5 (I can't read the word) CONTACT ACE (or AIFC or ALFC)

4) Three months later, change B. (I'm thinking he may have forgot to change this to L, because the word that was scratched out looks like the B was overwritten with an L)

I'm only thinking that way because when I make a list quickly, I will use quotations to represent a word I have already used. Example:

1) White Bread
2) Wheat ""
3) Rye ""

Maybe his overlined letters were his "quotations" to save time?

Just a thought.

smile22
05-16-2006, 07:22 AM
maybe that letter is the link to anna and he wrote it that way so if someone was to find it they would have little or no way to decipher it. gw and gb were a lil crazy but im sure they knew how to cover their tracks good

SherlockJr
05-16-2006, 11:00 AM
Also, could the letters with lines over them be a repeat of a word used already in his notes:

Read:
1) Contact Mond PLAN (he titled the note "Plan) final arrangements with CONTACT (word directly above the c with line over it) L's have been made (made has different contexts - maybe this "made" referrs to "found out" instead of "created")

2) Apply for $100,000 CONTACT ACE as L (underlined three times to see change - maybe he was going to impersonate someone?)

3) 3 months later negotiate increase to 5 (I can't read the word) CONTACT ACE (or AIFC or ALFC)

4) Three months later, change B. (I'm thinking he may have forgot to change this to L, because the word that was scratched out looks like the B was overwritten with an L)...h4t, welcome to the board, we appreciate your input. However these are medical terms meaning after and with. You will find the conclusion buried somewhere within the posts.

hoping4truth
05-16-2006, 12:30 PM
Ah ha! I knew you guys probably figured this out :)

I was half asleep when I was reading through the thread and thought maybe I would say my two cents just in case...

Thanks for the reply!

SherlockJr
05-16-2006, 01:35 PM
Annasmom, As you were picking out names for Anna before she was born, was there any names that GW really wanted to name her?

Dr. Doobie (oops, still can't get your recent post about the 1980's off my mind:doh: ) , have you seen the name Larson come up in the BFH?

Annasmom
05-16-2006, 02:29 PM
Annasmom, As you were picking out names for Anna before she was born, was there any names that GW really wanted to name her?

Dr. Doobie (oops, still can't get your recent post about the 1980's off my mind:doh: ) , have you seen the name Larson come up in the BFH?
Sherlock, we had always planned to name her Anna for his mother.

MagicRose99
05-16-2006, 03:46 PM
Dr. Doobie, huh? Is there something we should know about our esteemed leader? :D

....

Dr. Doobie (oops, still can't get your recent post about the 1980's off my mind:doh: ) , have you seen the name Larson come up in the BFH?

Dr. Doogie
05-16-2006, 04:06 PM
Dr. Doobie, huh? Is there something we should know about our esteemed leader? :D
Well, I don't know if I looked like Tommy Chong, but Joe Ford looked a lot like Cheech Marin back in the seventies...

Niteowl
05-17-2006, 02:07 AM
Hello hoping4truth and welcome. The posts are 70 thru108 on Theory 2.

I have had another thought after you posted. Now that we believe that GB was perhaps of Italian heritage, I would like to toss this in. Could the L's be “Lombards”? There is a Lombardy region in Italy, Maybe the Giordinos came from that region. Lombard, in German, means a credit or loan business.

Dr. Doogie, Austrians invaded the northern Italian region a few centuries ago, maybe that's why he looks German to me!

mbroemsen
05-17-2006, 11:39 AM
he looks German to me!
I thought he looked German also - but when I lined up the pictures, the match was a bit too uncanny. I acutally thought perhaps the changes in his appearance could POSSIBLY be an attempt to change his appearance - his part is on the other side, glasses, moustache, etc... (just my 2 cents)

Dr. Doogie
05-17-2006, 11:59 AM
I thought he looked German also - but when I lined up the pictures, the match was a bit too uncanny. I acutally thought perhaps the changes in his appearance could POSSIBLY be an attempt to change his appearance - his part is on the other side, glasses, moustache, etc... (just my 2 cents)I hadn't noticed any change in the part of his hair. In fact, the similarity of the hair between the picture of BW in the "Ring" photo and the portraits of Brody are what finally convinced me that we had a match.

Ring BW Photo:
http://www.phillyboxinghistory.com/other/wolgast_bobby_ring192404.jpg

Brody Photo:
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/drdoogief/detail?.dir=aac9&.dnm=94e8scd.jpg&.src=ph

The hairline has obviously receded in the Brody picture and became grey, but the part and the style look identical to me.

SherlockJr
05-17-2006, 12:04 PM
I thought he looked German also - but when I lined up the pictures, the match was a bit too uncanny. I acutally thought perhaps the changes in his appearance could POSSIBLY be an attempt to change his appearance - his part is on the other side, glasses, moustache, etc... (just my 2 cents)
As far as changing his appearance... when one gets over 40, the eyes start to lose some sight and glasses are needed. I know this from personal experience.
As far as mustache.... I can't speak from experience, but it could have to do with getting lazy and not wanting to take the time to shave. Or he felt he looked younger or more handsome with it.

Annasmom
05-17-2006, 01:33 PM
I had a call today from the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, asking for an update on Anna's case, so I summarized some of the latest developments brought about by action on the Forum. The call was not from Jerry Nance, who has been corresponding with Doogie, but from someone (why didn't I write down the name?) who wanted to report to Jerry. I welcomed this as meaning that things at the NCMEC may have settled down after the furor generated by children missing after Katrina, and that the NCMEC wishes to make itself available for whatever help we might ask.

SherlockJr
05-17-2006, 01:39 PM
I had a call today from the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, asking for an update on Anna's case, so I summarized some of the latest developments brought about by action on the Forum. The call was not from Jerry Nance, who has been corresponding with Doogie, but from someone (why didn't I write down the name?) who wanted to report to Jerry. I welcomed this as meaning that things at the NCMEC may have settled down after the furor generated by children missing after Katrina, and that the NCMEC wishes to make itself available for whatever help we might ask.
You may want to confirm with Jerry Nance that this person is legitimate.

Dr. Doogie
05-17-2006, 05:15 PM
I received an email from Gerald Nance today in regards to the picture of the young girl in the Synanon facility from the seventies that resembled Anna. He reported that several contacts from Synanon had failed to identify Anna from our pictures and felt that it was unlikely that Anna was at a Synanon site. (A quick side note: the conduit for his contacting Synanon was a fellow WSer who posts here regularly. I will let her identify herself if she chooses, but know that Mr. Nance obviously values the hard work that we all do here at Ws.com.)

I updated Mr. Nance on the most recent developments in Anna's case - in particular, the possible identification of Brody as Bobby Wolgast. I explained what our next steps were (trying to confirm Brody as Wolgast through Margaret Kukoda's relatives and the the various means that we are using to try and locate Anna). Mostly, I thanked him for his ongoing help - he is truely one of the good guys!

hoping4truth
05-17-2006, 07:21 PM
You guys are awesome and have come up with so much! You may have already thought of this but I figure - why not throw it out there?

Anyway, I was reading the Rose Cole thread today, and something I read reminded me of our Ms. Kukoda and her legal troubles.

Shadow205 posted this in message #80

more on Synanon
Beginning in 1974 the authorities began to question Synanon's promises and practices. The concept of "lifetime rehabilitation" did not agree with therapeutic norms, and it was alleged that the group was running an unauthorized medical clinic, and that on remote properties in California such as Tomales Bay in Marin County and Badger, Tulare County, the organization had built unpermitted buildings, a trash dump, and an airstrip. Tax issues came up. To dodge these accusations Dederich declared that Synanon was a tax exempt religious organization, the "Church of Synanon."

I know there may be a Synanon connection to Anna's case, so I just thought I would bring it up. You might already know exactly what Margaret did that got her into trouble in the first place.

Just a thought...

gardenmom
05-17-2006, 09:21 PM
You guys are awesome and have come up with so much! You may have already thought of this but I figure - why not throw it out there?

Anyway, I was reading the Rose Cole thread today, and something I read reminded me of our Ms. Kukoda and her legal troubles.

Shadow205 posted this in message #80

more on Synanon
Beginning in 1974 the authorities began to question Synanon's promises and practices. The concept of "lifetime rehabilitation" did not agree with therapeutic norms, and it was alleged that the group was running an unauthorized medical clinic, and that on remote properties in California such as Tomales Bay in Marin County and Badger, Tulare County, the organization had built unpermitted buildings, a trash dump, and an airstrip. Tax issues came up. To dodge these accusations Dederich declared that Synanon was a tax exempt religious organization, the "Church of Synanon."

I know there may be a Synanon connection to Anna's case, so I just thought I would bring it up. You might already know exactly what Margaret did that got her into trouble in the first place.

Just a thought...

I was thinking it was probably something to do with abortions, but I don't know for sure. I bet Dr. Doogies knows.

Joe Ford
05-18-2006, 06:43 AM
Well, I don't know if I looked like Tommy Chong, but Joe Ford looked a lot like Cheech Marin back in the seventies...
I'M LMAO !!!

smile22
05-18-2006, 11:25 AM
You may want to confirm with Jerry Nance that this person is legitimate. i agree with all the sickos out their anyone could be posing for ncmec and saying stuff. make a call and see if someone from the agencey in fact did call but if you have call id 90% of the time the number of a place will show up with a lil discription

Dr. Doogie
05-18-2006, 11:55 AM
I was thinking it was probably something to do with abortions, but I don't know for sure. I bet Dr. Doogies knows.
Margaret plead guilty in 1953 to performing three illegal abortions (not legalized in California until a later date). She was sentenced to four months probation. She evidently had her nurses license revoked as a result of this arrest.

I did not post the details of her legal issues because I did not want to draw the forum into a tangent concerning the right or wrong of abortion. What Margaret was arrested for seems immaterial - what is important is if, somewhere in the public records of her arrest, Brody shows up. That would place the two of them together earlier than we have been able to establish.

HeartofTexas
05-18-2006, 12:03 PM
Doogie, what is the earliest date you show Margaret and Brody knowing each other in California? I'm sure it's on here somewhere, but there's a lot to wade thru to find it. However, if you know Margaret was in SF as early as 1937 (almost straight out of high school), and you believe Brody was in a boxing match in SF in 1940, it seems likely the two knew each other sooner than 1953. But that's just a guess.

Dr. Doogie
05-18-2006, 12:07 PM
Doogie, what is the earliest date you show Margaret and Brody knowing each other in California? I'm sure it's on here somewhere, but there's a lot to wade thru to find it. However, if you know Margaret was in SF as early as 1937 (almost straight out of high school), and you believe Brody was in a boxing match in SF in 1940, it seems likely the two knew each other sooner than 1953. But that's just a guess.
The earliest that we can place them together is 1962, but they most certainly were together much earlier than that. Where did the 1937 date for Margaret come from? I do not recall that date (but heck, I could have posted it myself yesterday and forgot about by today - LOL!).

HeartofTexas
05-18-2006, 02:53 PM
Doogie, apparently I made a mistake. I wrote down in my notes yesterday that Margaret was in San Francisco from 1937-67, but I don't think my notes are correct. I searched several of the recent threads and can't find a 1937 date to back up my notes. I may have been thinking of 1947 when her nurse's license was issued but, to be honest, I don't have a clue where I came up with the 1937 date. Sorry for the confusion.

Dr. Doogie
05-18-2006, 02:57 PM
Doogie, apparently I made a mistake. I wrote down in my notes yesterday that Margaret was in San Francisco from 1937-67, but I don't think my notes are correct. I searched several of the recent threads and can't find a 1937 date to back up my notes. I may have been thinking of 1947 when her nurse's license was issued but, to be honest, I don't have a clue where I came up with the 1937 date. Sorry for the confusion.
No problem. I know that my head gets spinning with all of the details here.

kyresearcher
05-18-2006, 10:10 PM
Margaret plead guilty in 1953 to performing three illegal abortions (not legalized in California until a later date). She was sentenced to four months probation. She evidently had her nurses license revoked as a result of this arrest.

I did not post the details of her legal issues because I did not want to draw the forum into a tangent concerning the right or wrong of abortion. What Margaret was arrested for seems immaterial - what is important is if, somewhere in the public records of her arrest, Brody shows up. That would place the two of them together earlier than we have been able to establish. DrDoogie, have you thought about checking the court records to see if she was placed on bond during this charge. It might be interesting to see who put up bond money as there would have to be signature of that person. Could it have been GB or his alias? Maybe he was involved someway and then changed his name and went on the run. Please check this out.

mysteriew
05-19-2006, 01:26 AM
Another thing that could be interesting, since GW was a doctor- where was she employed at the time that got in trouble.

Annasmom
05-19-2006, 09:09 AM
Another thing that could be interesting, since GW was a doctor- where was she employed at the time that got in trouble.
Remember that Margaret was an elderly patient, sick and dying, by the time GW met her at the county hospital.

mysteriew
05-19-2006, 12:44 PM
Remember that Margaret was an elderly patient, sick and dying, by the time GW met her at the county hospital.

I had forgotten that. I had thought there might have been a possibility that they might have worked together at some point.

Dr. Doogie
05-19-2006, 01:10 PM
Remember that Margaret was an elderly patient, sick and dying, by the time GW met her at the county hospital.Hold on there, young missy! She was 49 years old when she went into the hospital. "Sick and dying" I'll buy..."elderly" is a little too close to home!

mfmangel1
05-19-2006, 01:24 PM
Hold on there, young missy! She was 49 years old when she went into the hospital. "Sick and dying" I'll buy..."elderly" is a little too close to home!

I will second that! Thank you very much!

HeartofTexas
05-19-2006, 02:41 PM
Thank you, Doogie, for letting everyone know we will NOT tolerate calling 49 year olds ELDERLY! LOL!

Annasmom
05-19-2006, 04:55 PM
Hold on there, young missy! She was 49 years old when she went into the hospital. "Sick and dying" I'll buy..."elderly" is a little too close to home! You're a mere chickadee, Doogie; I'll be 70 in three weeks (but actually I thought Margaret was quite a bit older than 49, since she went from the hospital to a county nursing home which has mostly geriatric patients.) Also, since GW was only about 30 at the time he treated her, we could say that Margaret was almost of a different generation from his.

Dr. Doogie
05-19-2006, 05:30 PM
You're a mere chickadee, Doogie; I'll be 70 in three weeks (but actually I thought Margaret was quite a bit older than 49, since she went from the hospital to a county nursing home which has mostly geriatric patients.) Also, since GW was only about 30 at the time he treated her, we could say that Margaret was almost of a different generation from his.
:laugh:Since Brody claimed to be only 45 years old at the time of his death (and as old as he looked), maybe 49 IS old!!!

Annasmom
05-19-2006, 07:53 PM
Anna was Project Jason's 18 Wheel Angel poster girl for April 1 through April 15, with www.projectjason.org offering a poster which could be downloaded and printed to place. The April truckers' magazine Through the Gears ran a two-page story with a picture of Anna on the cover and photographs of Anna at age 5 and age-advanced to thirties inside, as well as a picture of Half Moon Bay. My copies arrived in the mail today. Thank you, Kelly.

Dr. Doogie
05-23-2006, 11:28 AM
Just a quick update for everybody on what is currently happening: I am sending off the letters to members of the Kukoda family today in an attempt to see if they can tell us anything about Brody. I hope that we can answer the question is Brody the same person as Bobby Wolgast. We should start to hear back from them later this week.

Dr. Doogie
05-23-2006, 02:46 PM
I dawned on me that I never have laid out what I see as the two pronged plan of searching for Anna:

Part One: To research all of the aspects that we know about Anna's disappearance. This includes exploring all of the possible ties that George Waters and George Brody may have to others and following the leads on possible matches to Anna that turn up from that investigation.

Part Two: Searching adoption reunion sites for possible matches for Anna. This is based on the idea that Anna is out there and searching for her family. This part doesn't require that we find her as much as creating scenarios where she can find her family. This includes posting as much identifying information on these sites to allow her to make the connections with her history and contact us. Once we find her, she will be able to answer a lot of the questions that have eluded us in Part One.

SherlockJr
05-26-2006, 09:51 AM
Annasbro, Is it possible to recall an approximate age of the woman who opened the back door of the car to lure Anna? You mentioned she had long black hair. Could she have been Hispanic? Was there any accent you notice while she was asking all the questions? Was this woman sitting in the back seat by herself? Do you remember if anyone was sitting in the front passenger seat?

Annasbro
05-26-2006, 08:06 PM
Being so long ago it is a bit fuzzy. She was in the front seat. There was a driver. She or someone in the back (they might have stayed in the car) opened the back door. She approached us. She was early to mid 30s I would guess. She had long straight black hair and a loose fitting cotton blouse with embroidery on it like a Mexican or Indian type blouse. I dont remember her having any accent just that she was overly friendly in a weird way for someone we didn't know.

kyresearcher
05-27-2006, 01:09 AM
I just found this article and think it would be good for everyone to read, especially Annasmom. It is about a woman who was contacting mothers on the adoption boards claiming to be her child. It is nothing but a scam and getting the hopes up of the dear mothers who are searching for their children.
http://www.birthfamily.com/warningletter.html
Wonder who the woman is???????????????????????????????? She should have charges brought against her if they can find out her idenity. Makes me wonder since we have seen some strange things on another thread.

kyresearcher
05-27-2006, 01:33 AM
I noticed that this woman who was scamming the mothers is from Texas. I have emailed Jan (one of the mothers who was scammed) Waiting for a reply.
The scammer sent pictures of herself to the mothers, so they have evidence if this person is caught. I told her about websleuths and gave her web site, also told her about the Delia Cly link.

Annasmom
05-27-2006, 12:02 PM
I just found this article and think it would be good for everyone to read, especially Annasmom. It is about a woman who was contacting mothers on the adoption boards claiming to be her child. It is nothing but a scam and getting the hopes up of the dear mothers who are searching for their children.
http://www.birthfamily.com/warningletter.html
Wonder who the woman is???????????????????????????????? She should have charges brought against her if they can find out her idenity. Makes me wonder since we have seen some strange things on another thread.
Kyresearcher, the link doesn't work for me. Has anyone else had this problem?