Theory #1: Stranger Abduction by the "Couple in the Car"

[Dr. Doogie]

This thread will be to discuss the couple that attempted to get Anna into their vehicle approximately one month before she disappeared. I will copy forward the relevant material from the previous thread and re-post it her in a condensed form.

[Dr. Doogie]

On 2/04/06, Annasbro posted the following:

"As far as I remember it here is the accounting of the incident with the car luring Anna towards it: It seemed like the middle of the day. Maybe it was a Sat. or Sunday. We used to like to walk towards the end of the canyon down the road heading east. The house where we lived was about 1.5 miles from the end of the canyon. We were approximately 1/4 mile from our house when a car passed us and pulled infront of us about 25 ft. Saturn the dog barked at the car as a woman wearing a loose fitting white shirt with embroidery on it and long dark hair opened up the back door. She spoke to us from within the car, a 4 door american sedan that was a dark green or gold. Somehow I remember it as a chevy impala late 60s - it was not new. I know cars pretty well. I thought it had the old style washington plate - white with green letters - I can't be sure about that.

When we got the dog settled down she made small talk and addressed Anna primarily - I believe . I answered for her but she continued to address Anna with small talk and questions - do you live here?, where do you go to school?, do you walk down the road often? at that point she asked if she wanted her (us - I can't remember) to ride to the end of the road with her. This creeped me out sufficiently to turn our party around and head back home. The woman closed the door and the car scooted off quickly towards the end of the canyon. I don't remember if and how I relayed the story at the time to my parents.

I didn't think much of it. I knew some creepy people would travel down that road every once in a while. A body was dumped closer to the entry of the canyon earlier that year. I just knew there was no way any of us was going to get into a car with people we didn't know and kind of put it behind me. I wish now I had played closer attention to everything."



The significance of this event cannot be overstated. This means that one month before Anna disappeared, a couple attempted to get Anna to get in their car. It would be reasonable to assume that they returned at the later time and successfully abducted Anna. This scenario raises the possibilty that Anna was taken by a family that would raise her as their daughter. And that she could be alive today, looking for her real family...

[gardenmom]

Doogie,
have you considered showing this to Delia Cly to see if she recognizes the description of this car? I know we don't think she is Anna, but their stories may somehow be related as far as abducting a young girl.

[Dr. Doogie]

Doogie,
have you considered showing this to Delia Cly to see if she recognizes the description of this car? I know we don't think she is Anna, but their stories may somehow be related as far as abducting a young girl.I have discussed this with Delia. She does not recognize the description of the car, but she was going to confer with a relative to see if they remember a similar vehicle.

There may be a possible link to Delia's case. Delia has a sister by the name of "Annie Kaye Davis" who is listed as being born in 1967, the same year as Anna. If Delia is correct in her suspicion that she was stolen, it is conceivable that other of her siblings were stolen also. The time line and details of Delia's story dove-tail nicely into what we know or suspect about Anna's disappearance. The family can be placed in Northern California in the early 1970's (Modesto, which is about three hours away from Half Moon Bay). Prior to them living in Modesto, the family had been in Washington state (green and white license plates?).

Delia has seen pictures of Anna and says that she cannot rule out Anna and Annie Kaye being the same, though she does not see a direct resemblence. She is going to scan some pictures of Anna Kaye for Annasmom and family to review to see if there might be a match.

[Dr. Doogie]

I have received the pictures from Delia Cly. Unfortunately, there are many pictures of the several different family members, so I am not sure which ones are of Annie Kaye. I will sort it out with Delia and then forward the relevant pics to Annasmom.

[Dr. Doogie]

The pictures of Annie Kaye Davis have been identified and are being reviewed by Annasmom. Results to follow...

[Dr. Doogie]

Annasmom has reviewed the pics and Annie Kaye Davis is not Anna. There are very distinct differences in the two sets of features. I will be posting the pictures of Delia's family up soon (tonight?) on her thread. I hope to also get Annie Kaye's pics up here for you to compare for yourselves.

[deliacly]

THANKS, DR.DOOGIE, I SORRY FOR ANNSMOM, I'M SORRY ANNIE KAY WASN'T ANNA.... I FEEL THE SAME KIND OF PAIN AS ANNSMOM.... IT'S HELL TO LIVE THE KIND OF LIFE THAT WE DO.... WAITING, WONDERING AND ALWAYS SEARCHING!!!!! GOD WILL SEE US THROUGH!!!!!!Annasmom has reviewed the pics and Annie Kaye Davis is not Anna. There are very distinct differences in the two sets of features. I will be posting the pictures of Delia's family up soon (tonight?) on her thread. I hope to also get Annie Kaye's pics up here for you to compare for yourselves.

[deliacly]

i ask darla about the car and it didn't sound like any cars that she remembered... sorry....Doogie,
have you considered showing this to Delia Cly to see if she recognizes the description of this car? I know we don't think she is Anna, but their stories may somehow be related as far as abducting a young girl.

[Dr. Doogie]

Delia:

Thanks for joining our discussion. As you can see, we are looking under every possible stone for the answer to what happened to Anna. Good luck in your search.

[Dr. Doogie]

One important aspect about this couple: If they returned one month after the inital abduction attempt and did take Anna (which is the most logical explaination for Anna's disappearance), then they either lived somewhere within a half-day's drive of Half Moon Bay or were in the area for an extended stay between December 1972 and January 1973. It would make sense that they were close enough to make two trips a month apart, but lived far enough away that the local media coverage of would not raise suspicion as to why they sudden had a daughter. The San Francisco media market would cover the entire Bay Area from Santa Rosa to the north, San Jose to the south and Livermore to the east. This is why (in my mind) the central valley of California is the most likely area that they would be from (from Sacramento to the north, down to Fresno or Bakersfield to the south). The central valley would be within either the Sacramento market or their own media markets, and an abductor would thus avoid the glare of public scrutiny.

[Dr. Doogie]

Another find from the Box from Hell: when GW died, he had two phone numbers in his wallet - one of which was a number from Washington State (remember that the couple in car may have had Washington State license plates). I have contacted Joe Ford concerning this because he did a very thorough analysis of Waters' phone records after GW's death and may recall who held this number. Unfortunately, this was twenty-five years ago and whoever holds that number now is very unlikely to be the same person as in 1981.

[PonderingThings]

One important aspect about this couple: If they returned one month after the inital abduction attempt and did take Anna (which is the most logical explaination for Anna's disappearance), then they either lived somewhere within a half-day's drive of Half Moon Bay or were in the area for an extended stay between December 1972 and January 1973. It would make sense that they were close enough to make two trips a month apart, but lived far enough away that the local media coverage of would not raise suspicion as to why they sudden had a daughter. The San Francisco media market would cover the entire Bay Area from Santa Rosa to the north, San Jose to the south and Livermore to the east. This is why (in my mind) the central valley of California is the most likely area that they would be from (from Sacramento to the north, down to Fresno or Bakersfield to the south). The central valley would be within either the Sacramento market or their own media markets, and an abductor would thus avoid the glare of public scrutiny.
Dr. Doogie how much publicity was there in Anna's case? Did it get beyond the local area?

I'm asking because that time period was marketed by some pretty serious serial killers and Santa Cruz (just down the road) was dubbed the "Murder Capital". Seems to me the press would only mention Anna's disappearance in passing... although I could be wrong....

[Dr. Doogie]

Dr. Doogie how much publicity was there in Anna's case? Did it get beyond the local area?

I'm asking because that time period was marketed by some pretty serious serial killers and Santa Cruz (just down the road) was dubbed the "Murder Capital". Seems to me the press would only mention Anna's disappearance in passing... although I could be wrong....
Annasmom can probably give a more definitive answer on this, but here is what I know:

There was coverage most heavily in the Half Moon Bay Area and San Mateo County. It did receive some coverage in the Bay Area newspapers for a couple of days (initial story and a few followups) - I do not know about TV or radio coverage. Annasmom published an article in the SF Chronicle/Examiner Sunday Magazine a couple of years after Anna's disappearance that reached a good portion of Northern California. There has never been any national exposure beyond the "milk carton circuit" - postings on various missing persons sites, "Have You Seen..." mass mailings by advertisers (the type of stuff that we all here on WS pay attention to, but the general population usually ignores). The recent post about Anna's case being listed in a giveaway trucking magazine is probably the most exposure that has occured in twenty-five years. Anna has never been featured on any national newscasts or crimestopper shows like AMW or Unsolved Mysteries.

The main motivation behind Annasmom publishing her manuscript (we are working on it!) would be to create new media interest in the case. Media coverage creates more media coverage and the book will hopefully be the spark that ignites the flame.

[kyresearcher]

One important aspect about this couple: If they returned one month after the inital abduction attempt and did take Anna (which is the most logical explaination for Anna's disappearance), then they either lived somewhere within a half-day's drive of Half Moon Bay or were in the area for an extended stay between December 1972 and January 1973. It would make sense that they were close enough to make two trips a month apart, but lived far enough away that the local media coverage of would not raise suspicion as to why they sudden had a daughter. The San Francisco media market would cover the entire Bay Area from Santa Rosa to the north, San Jose to the south and Livermore to the east. This is why (in my mind) the central valley of California is the most likely area that they would be from (from Sacramento to the north, down to Fresno or Bakersfield to the south). The central valley would be within either the Sacramento market or their own media markets, and an abductor would thus avoid the glare of public scrutiny. DrDoogie, you stated in earlier post that GW and GB had another room rented in the motel, could this room have been used by the abductors before, during and after the abduction? They may have even used it after just to keep Anna close to GW in case there was any need for him to be of assistance, such as keeping her sedated until she became familiar with her abductors, so not to call any attention to them. Do you know what time frame this extra room was rented? Just wondering........

[kyresearcher]

Another find from the Box from Hell: when GW died, he had two phone numbers in his wallet - one of which was a number from Washington State (remember that the couple in car may have had Washington State license plates). I have contacted Joe Ford concerning this because he did a very thorough analysis of Waters' phone records after GW's death and may recall who held this number. Unfortunately, this was twenty-five years ago and whoever holds that number now is very unlikely to be the same person as in 1981. DrDoogie, I have had the same phone # for 24 years. Have you done a reverse phone # lookup to see who it belongs to? I know you can't post the # on the forum but maybe you could pm some of the good researchers and let them see what they can find out about the person who has the #. :crazy:

[Dr. Doogie]

DrDoogie, you stated in earlier post that GW and GB had another room rented in the motel, could this room have been used by the abductors before, during and after the abduction? They may have even used it after just to keep Anna close to GW in case there was any need for him to be of assistance, such as keeping her sedated until she became familiar with her abductors, so not to call any attention to them. Do you know what time frame this extra room was rented? Just wondering........
They had two rooms in the same hotel (650 Geary Street) - one registered to Brody and one for Waters, though they usually stayed in the same room together. Evidently, Brody also kept the room he had in a different hotel (1153 Sutter) prior to moving in with Waters a few blocks away. Evidently, they had all three rooms in January 1973, but the existance of the Sutter Street room was not known at the time when LE investigated them shortly after Anna's disappearance.

[Dr. Doogie]

DrDoogie, I have had the same phone # for 24 years. Have you done a reverse phone # lookup to see who it belongs to? I know you can't post the # on the forum but maybe you could pm some of the good researchers and let them see what they can find out about the person who has the #. :crazy:
I have access to some reverse search engines - I'll give it a shot.

[SherlockJr]

If you visit the public library, they have the "Polk Directory". This directory is published often (if not yearly, than every other year). You can find a directory for 1972 at the library. However, this may have to be done in Washington state in the city where the area code is from. Many times a person working in the library are helpful and will look it up if a you call them. You may have to look into all years after 1973 up until 1981.



I have access to some reverse search engines - I'll give it a shot.

[kyresearcher]

If you visit the public library, they have the "Polk Directory". This directory is published often (if not yearly, than every other year). You can find a directory for 1972 at the library. However, this may have to be done in Washington state in the city where the area code is from. Many times a person working in the library are helpful and will look it up if a you call them. You may have to look into all years after 1973 up until 1981.Sherlock, I have looked on all reverse phone lookups I can find and have looked for old phone books for the Seattle, Washington area, since that is where the area code is from. I can't find any listing of the #. Joe Ford had called it sometime after Anna's disapperance and it was no longer in service. Right now I am looking on ebay for a 1970 phone directory for the Seattle, Washington area and even have a post in the Want It Now on ebay. I am going to find one and I will go throught each listing, individual and business. I am thinking this is one link that may take us to Anna. If anyone reading has one of these phone directories please pm me and if you will send it to me I will get it back to you after I search for this #.

[kyresearcher]

I meant to say I am looking for a 1972 phone directory for Seattle, Washington altho it could be listed in a later book.

[SherlockJr]

Another idea Kyresearcher, you and I can leave KY and pull a Thelma and Louise and go cross country ourselves.

[kyresearcher]

Another idea Kyresearcher, you and I can leave KY and pull a Thelma and Louise and go cross country ourselves. Ha Ha, neither one of them has white hair, so who would I be?

[Shadow205]

I meant to say I am looking for a 1972 phone directory for Seattle, Washington altho it could be listed in a later book.
How about contacting the phone company directly. Maybe they keep old copies of the phone directories. I was trying to help find you one and came across this site http://www.bcgs.ca/TEL_DIR.htm#Miscellaneous%20Directories%20(%20Unit ed%20States%20)

Directories held at The British Columbia Genealogical Society's Resource Centre in Surrey, B.C. Canada
They listed several in both Canada and USA including:
Seattle, Washington1980-1981, 1982, 1993-1994

Maybe check with other Genealogical Society's in the Seattle area, maybe they would have what you are looking for.

[Shadow205]

Here you go Kyresearcher, everything you could ever want to know about old phone books plus tons of links on where to find them!

http://www.oldtelephonebooks.com/pblink.html

[kyresearcher]

Here you go Kyresearcher, everything you could ever want to know about old phone books plus tons of links on where to find them!

http://www.oldtelephonebooks.com/pblink.html Thanks Shadow, I will see what I can find.

[SherlockJr]

[Quoted from page 1]When we got the dog settled down she made small talk and addressed Anna primarily - I believe . I answered for her but she continued to address Anna with small talk and questions - do you live here?, where do you go to school?, do you walk down the road often? at that point she asked if she wanted her (us - I can't remember) to ride to the end of the road with her.


Does anyone recall where Saturn was when Anna disappeared? Sounds like if Saturn would go crazy when a car stopped on the road while they were walking, he/she would have been barking if a stranger entered the yard. Would Saturn bark at anyone?

[SherlockJr]

[again quoted from page 1] ...a woman wearing a loose fitting white shirt with embroidery on it and long dark hair opened up the back door. She spoke to us from within the car...


Annasbro, can you try to guess the age of this woman? Do you remember any accent when she spoke?

[Annasmom]

[Quoted from page 1]When we got the dog settled down she made small talk and addressed Anna primarily - I believe . I answered for her but she continued to address Anna with small talk and questions - do you live here?, where do you go to school?, do you walk down the road often? at that point she asked if she wanted her (us - I can't remember) to ride to the end of the road with her.


Does anyone recall where Saturn was when Anna disappeared? Sounds like if Saturn would go crazy when a car stopped on the road while they were walking, he/she would have been barking if a stranger entered the yard. Would Saturn bark at anyone? Saturn was a very young dog and definitely not a watch dog (he once let a female dog into the chicken yard, where she feasted on our laying hens.) To my recollection, he was in the back yard when Anna disappeared, though when we started looking for her, he followed us back and forth.

[SherlockJr]

Saturn was a very young dog and definitely not a watch dog (he once let a female dog into the chicken yard, where she feasted on our laying hens.) To my recollection, he was in the back yard when Anna disappeared, though when we started looking for her, he followed us back and forth.
My guess would be Anna was taken from the front yard and was not in Saturn's sight. It was mentioned she may have gone up to get the mail. Do you remember if you had any mail that day? Could she have gotten the mail and then taken afterwards? Would Anna normally go fetch the mail?

[Annasmom]

My guess would be Anna was taken from the front yard and was not in Saturn's sight. It was mentioned she may have gone up to get the mail. Do you remember if you had any mail that day? Could she have gotten the mail and then taken afterwards? Would Anna normally go fetch the mail? Yes, we are thinking that Anna saw our neighbor (who was visiting in the house) opening her mail from the previous day and thought the mail had come (it had not), went out the back door, around to the front, up the road, and may have been taken from there. The mail deliverer came after Anna had disappeared, and she assured us that she had followed her regular route, over Higgins Canyon road, on to Purisima Creek Road. (Some people questioned whether this road would have been open due to the storms.) If, as we speculate, an abductor was watching the house and continued driving the shorter lap of the road to the Coast Highway, the mail woman would not have seen the vehicle. I drove over the road myself only a few days ago and could see the farm from many wooded places along the way. Yes, Anna often went up to the mailbox to get the mail.

[Dr. Doogie]

We are attempting to verify corraborating evidence that this tip is legitimate, but we have a report that Anna was seen and spoken to by a woman in 1976. The information that we received corresponds with the theory of Anna being abducted by a childless couple who sought a daughter.

There are many aspects of this new tip that require verification that we are attempting to do, so I am holding back any additional details until we have a better feel about the truthfulness of the lead. I do not want to send everyone out "chasing gooses" when this could be a hoax or a fraud. Once (and if) we qualify this legit, all of the details will be posted for your assistance in following up.

Needless to say, if this does turn out to legit, this is the break that we have been praying for.

[GraceBlue]

We are attempting to verify corraborating evidence that this tip is legitimate, but we have a report that Anna was seen and spoken to by a woman in 1976. The information that we received corresponds with the theory of Anna being abducted by a childless couple who sought a daughter.

There are many aspects of this new tip that require verification that we are attempting to do, so I am holding back any additional details until we have a better feel about the truthfulness of the lead. I do not want to send everyone out "chasing gooses" when this could be a hoax or a fraud. Once (and if) we qualify this legit, all of the details will be posted for your assistance in following up.

Needless to say, if this does turn out to legit, this is the break that we have been praying for.

Oh my gosh. I have tears in my eyes. I know I know its too early to say but I am soooo hoping that this is true.

Did the person who gave you the info say where they saw her? How did they 'remember' it was actually 1976?

[SherlockJr]

We are attempting to verify corraborating evidence that this tip is legitimate, but we have a report that Anna was seen and spoken to by a woman in 1976. The information that we received corresponds with the theory of Anna being abducted by a childless couple who sought a daughter.

There are many aspects of this new tip that require verification that we are attempting to do, so I am holding back any additional details until we have a better feel about the truthfulness of the lead. I do not want to send everyone out "chasing gooses" when this could be a hoax or a fraud. Once (and if) we qualify this legit, all of the details will be posted for your assistance in following up.

Needless to say, if this does turn out to legit, this is the break that we have been praying for.

I'm burning the candles on both ends for Anna. Our prayers are with Anna's family at this time.



http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/message.cfm?l=eng&cid=1786817

[itsreenw]

I know you can't tell us much but can you tell us who was contacted and when?

Is this a new tip or something that was just discovered from old notes?
Everybody reading here that prays, let's ALL pray that this will lead us to our Anna. It's time for her to come home.

Doogie, I'm back at work. You know how to contact me if you need to.

[smile22]

this is really good news hopefully the tip pans into something and not a person mistaking someone looking like her.

[Dr. Doogie]

I received a phone call Tuesday evening from a resident of the Half Moon Bay area. She identified herself by name and also gave a phone number and a description of where she lives.

She stated that in 1976 when she was 17 years old, she was visited by a man and an 8 year old girl at her house. The woman's father owned several "low-income" rental properties in San Mateo county and she believes that this man was a tenant and there to pay his rent. The father was not there, so she engaged the man and child in conversation.

When the man was in another room, the girl identified herself as "Anna" and that the man was not her father. Anna stated that the man had taken her because his wife couldn't have children and she wanted a daughter. Anna asked the teenager to "Tell my mother that I am okay", but didn't want to do anything that would get her new parents in trouble. Anna's hair had been died dark brown.

When the man returned to the room, he realized what had been discussed and stated that he didn't want to "live the rest of his life in a cage". The teenager interpeted this as a veiled threat to keep quiet about what she had heard. As the man and Anna were leaving, the teen told the man that "You are in your forties - you're old enough to know better than to do this!". The man stopped, turned to her and replied, "I am forty-seven." She described him as stocky, about 5' 8" or taller with light brown short hair. She stated that he was a construction worker and that Anna referred to him as "Bill".

There are several parts of this story that seem fantastic, but this case has some parts that are fantastic that are also true. As a result, I am employing the old Ronald Reagan adage: "Trust, but verify". We have been able to establish that the phone number that she gave is hers and is in the area the matches up with area that she said she lived in. It also seems that her name is true also. The fact that she has given her real name and number to me increases the believability of the rest of the story.

If this new info is true, that means that Anna was alive three years after her disappearance. She would have been living in eastern San Mateo county (San Mateo or Redwood City?) and possibly attending public schools there. Her abductor would most likely have been employed in construction in the same area.

If we can establish that more of her story proves true, then we may have enough to get LE involvement. There remains the possibility that this new information is a hoax or the sincere beliefs by a deluded person. But there is also the possibility that it is the truth and that we have the outline of what happened to Anna and a direction to finding her alive.

[Dr. Doogie]

One additional bit of information: It dawned on me that the woman's father who had the rental properties may have been able to identify the abductor from the woman's description, but she stated that he was quite old now and has Alzheimers, so any information that he might supply would be questionable. What I have not established yet is if any rental records from 1976 are available that would narrow our search down to a handful of possible suspects - I will try and establish this the next time I speak to her.

[Shadow205]

Did this woman come forward after the newspaper article? Did she say that she had read about Anna?

I hope that this is legit and not just one of those people who sometimes "remember" something after a story appears in the media.

I will be anxiously awaiting more details and pray that this is true.

[Dr. Doogie]

Did this woman come forward after the newspaper article? Did she say that she had read about Anna?

She called as a result of the article. She stated that she was unfamiliar with Anna's disappearance prior to getting the visit from Anna and the man.

[GraceBlue]

Wow! That is one bizzare story. I hope it is true.

I've read that Anna was called with a long A as in swan. Did the woman say the little girl said her name that way? How did the woman know the little girl's hair was actually dyed or it was just naturally brown? Did she say the little girl had a mole like Anna's?

Is there anything I can do to help in related to searching for this "Bill"? I know I am on the east coast but please do not hestitate to PM or email me if you need help!

[Dr. Doogie]

I've read that Anna was called with a long A as in swan. Did the woman say the little girl said her name that way?
I believe so.

How did the woman know the little girl's hair was actually dyed or it was just naturally brown? Did she say the little girl had a mole like Anna's?
I believe that she mentioned that because she knew that Anna was blond (after reading the article) and the girl she meet had dark hair, so she assumed that the hair had been dyed. She did not mention the mole, but the mole is not a pronounced feature on her face.

Is there anything I can do to help in related to searching for this "Bill"? I know I am on the east coast but please do not hestitate to PM or email me if you need help!
I am still working on confirming details about the caller and her life - the more details about herself that she mentioned that can be confirmed lends creedence to other parts of the story. So far, everything about herself that I have investigated has been true.

[smile22]

hopefully this new evidence will pan out to be ligit. that we dont have to foucus on the creek anymore.hopefully records will exsist for the rentals and we can find the person we are looking for

[mfmangel1]

Would this source have access to records showing addresses of the properties her father owned at that time or does the family still own the properties?

Perhaps we could check census records for that time period....?

[itsreenw]

After reading the woman's statements at least 10 times I am inclined to believe that this woman is not truthful. This woman seems to recall details that are too specific.

She remembered:
his name was Bill

his occupation

exactly how old she and Anna were at the time and somehow knew the man was in his 40's.

that Anna told her she was abducted because the man's wife wanted a daughter.

Things I find questionable:

She recalled the specifics of the conversation but she didn't remember exactly why he was there-she thought he was there to pay his rent.
Was anyone else home with her? Why let a strange man in the house that came asking for her father who was not home at the time?

What other room was he in when this conversation took place? Was he just wandering around the house while she and Anna were talking? Was he in the restroom? Kitchen? Where were she and Anna in the house?

After hearing Anna's story why not tell her dad immediately if she didn't feel comfortable calling the police.

Is it common to anyone's knowledge, that abductors that intend to keep the child alive would tell her the truth? Seems the abductor would've told Anna her parents were dead, moved away, didin't love her, etc as their reason for taking her. Not simply because his wife couldnt get pregnant-she would have been crying to go home all the time.

What made the year stand out in her mind? She somehow knew the man was in his 40s. How? Then he conveniently provides his exact age. She feels the man's statement that he didn't plan "to live his life in a cage" as a veiled threat but she went on to chastise him about abducting Anna.

If Anna spoke so freely to this girl, surely in 3 years Anna had come in contact with other people. There should be others coming forward that had similar conversations with Anna.

Those are my observations. Sorry if I sound pessimistic. Just don't want to experience another Delia Cly fiasco.

[Dr. Doogie]

After reading the woman's statements at least 10 times I am inclined to believe that this woman is not truthful... Sorry if I sound pessimistic. Just don't want to experience another Delia Cly fiasco.
Your observations are valid, and I also do not want a repeat of the Delia Cly fiasco. I will state that, so far, the details of her story about herself have proved true: Her name and phone number, where she lives, the names and ages of her brother and father, and the fact that her father owned rental properties in the area have all been verified. Had any of these facts proved false, then I would have dismissed this info as fraudulent. However, that these were true lends creedence to the truthfulness of her information about Anna. A Delia Cly situation is still possible (and there are a couple of more things that I want to confirm before we move forward with this info).

Concerning the specific info about the woman's encounter with Anna: some of the questions that you have may be because of my re-telling of her words. I didn't go into great detail about why the man was there at her house, so there may be obvious holes in the story, not because it isn't true as much as I didn't ask the questions to fill in those holes (yet). I also have a lot of questions that will either make this more believable or shoot it down.

[SherlockJr]

[QUOTE=itsreenw]After reading the woman's statements at least 10 times I am inclined to believe that this woman is not truthful....QUOTE]

You have a right to your opinion. I would believe this person has already visited this website along with many other residents of HMB. Why would a person give their real name, address, etc, make something up fearing falsifying a police report? If I were a resident and something about this story triggered a memory I had, I would now almost be afraid to call in the tip realizing that someone would shoot down my credibility so quickly.

The community is reaching out to us on our request. If there are any other residents who want to offer information, they can certainly request Dr Doogie not to post that information on this forum.

[Annasmom]

[QUOTE=itsreenw]After reading the woman's statements at least 10 times I am inclined to believe that this woman is not truthful....QUOTE]

You have a right to your opinion. I would believe this person has already visited this website along with many other residents of HMB. Why would a person give their real name, address, etc, make something up fearing falsifying a police report? If I were a resident and something about this story triggered a memory I had, I would now almost be afraid to call in the tip realizing that someone would shoot down my credibility so quickly.

The community is reaching out to us on our request. If there are any other residents who want to offer information, they can certainly request Dr Doogie not to post that information on this forum.
Here are some things to consider: The story may be true, false, or partly true. Some of the parties to this story may be dead. The informant's life or Anna's life may have been threatened if the story was divulged before now. The informant may have known the purported abductor. He may have been an itinerant carpenter, not necessarily a licensed contractor. He may have worked for her father and may have been doing work on the property. He may have lived in a motor home or trailer.

[Elberethe]

The first tip from the newspaper article! :woohoo: I believe there are people out there who know something, who may not even know they know something. The publicity is going to shake something loose. We need more of these and the BOOK!! Not to put pressure on you or anything. /snicker

Great work Doogie. Can you verify if her father actually has alheizmers (sp?) because that one struck me weird for some reason. I'm not sure there would be much in the way of records, like most people are thinking. Low income properties tend to be very loosely rented. Seldom even having leases or rental agreements. Often to transient types (farmers, pickers). Construction? Doesn't that usually pay pretty good? Coincidence that Bill is same line of work as Joe Ford and Craig Barrick? Then again, there has been alot of growth so I suppose it isn't too remarkable a coincidence.

I don't want to throw a damp rag on anyone's hopes either, and I'm sure Doogie will get to the bottom of it. I too find it odd that Anna would be telling her story and not have told it to others. I do seriously doubt she was in the school system however (teachers are great confidants to kids and she would have hooked up with one if she knew the truth of her situation). Then, I'm not so sure she knows the truth of her situation. She was young enough she could easily be led to believe something else happened to her. People don't usually have alot of recollection from that age. I suppose the abductor could have told Anna the truth and Anna was sharing that info, but I really kinda doubt she would have stayed missing long if that was true. =*( I think it more likely she was told a lie or threatened.

The "veiled threat" the teenager remembers. I don't get it. How is that a threat? What does it mean? If a person doesn't want to live caged, they usually move. I don't understand how that was a threat. I also find it odd the teenager didn't at least tell her dad about the man/threat/stolen child. She never told any of her friends in all that time? She never told anyone? For me as a teenager to keep quiet about something like that, I would have to be very heavily into drugs/booze (couldn't care less) or the threat would have had to be more implicit (You say anything and I will KILL YOU and your little dog!)

As for remembering the exact year. That isn't hard to do. You aren't a teenager for long. Depending on circumstances in your life, it is pretty easy to pin down a year (or at least would be for me). I do find it odd the man volunteered his age (to confirm that yes, he is in his 40's)? I don't see him as having anything to prove. Here you have an abductor who just got caught and he doesn't make any *real* threats? Maybe, by saying he didn't want to be caged, he meant he would just move far from the area. He would still have Anna telling her story at every possible moment though. She really didn't tell her dad because of a threat he didn't want to be caged? Something not working for me there.

It could be a bad lead. That is always a possibility. It could also be someone who knows something, but doesn't want to be completely honest about what they know. Consider this scenerio. Bill is a family member. Not her dad, but say an uncle or even very close friend of the family. Someone you wouldn't want to get in trouble (no threats needed). Someone you might have wished would do the right thing, but someone you really don't want harm to come to. Maybe even someone you can half way sympathize with.

Suffice it to say, given the info we have so far, my gut reaction is the person isn't being honest. The better question would be WHY aren't they being honest. Either way, good work checking the story out Doogie. I also think you should let the police know about the tip. They have more resources to determine the credibility and follow up on any further leads. Besides, this isn't really a closed case. I think you are kinda obligated to let the police know (hint, hint).

Will be keeping a candle lit that this turns up something useful. I can so see Anna trying to tell her story. Makes me seriously wonder how she has stayed hidden. I still go for homeschooling and keeping her pretty disconnected from anyone she could tell. Eventually, she forgets or is led to believe another truth? Still, unless she was kept locked in a basement or upstairs room (couple of recent cases) and no one knew about her, then there should be family members/friends who know something is amiss. How willing would be they be to come forward? How much would Anna still remember of her ordeal? If she was trying to talk to people, she would remember that much. It would still be there in her memory even if it was locked away.

I think the publicity is going to shake something loose. :woohoo:

[Elberethe]

Here are some things to consider: The story may be true, false, or partly true. Some of the parties to this story may be dead. The informant's life or Anna's life may have been threatened if the story was divulged before now. The informant may have known the purported abductor. He may have been an itinerant carpenter, not necessarily a licensed contractor. He may have worked for her father and may have been doing work on the property. He may have lived in a motor home or trailer.

Hehe, we cross posted. See my thoughts on why I believe this person isn't being honest. You got it. She may know the abductor.

Good job.

[Elberethe]

He may have worked for her father and may have been doing work on the property. He may have lived in a motor home or trailer.

Annasmom, I keep thinking of my dream too and this is more the reason why. You and I think so much alike that I doubt there is much I could tell you that you don't already know. Remember when I said it is possible to live in HMB and not be known? This is how I did it. I worked for someone there and lived on their property in a trailor (with my boyfriend). We also stole all their booze and they never did figure out what happened to it! ~laughs~ I was a mess in my younger days, but suffice it to say, alot can happen in HMB that the community is not aware of. ;)

[Dr. Doogie]

The first tip from the newspaper article!
Actually, this would be the third call as a result of the article. The first was from Anna's bus driver CK who we had been trying to locate. She stated that she did recall seeing some white vehicles parked on PC Road, near where it ends at Hwy. 1, but nothing suspicious beyond that. The second call was from a current resident of PC Road who stated that the previous owner of her house had been convicted of murder and buried his victim on his property (about a mile or so from where Anna disappeared). I am working on exploring his history and his possibility of involvement in Anna's disappearance (coincidently, he was a construction contracter also, but other details about him do not match this new information, so I doubt that the two tips are related).

I believe there are people out there who know something, who may not even know they know something. The publicity is going to shake something loose. We need more of these and the BOOK!! Not to put pressure on you or anything. /snicker
Non-pressure duly noted - LOL!

Can you verify if her father actually has alheizmers (sp?) because that one struck me weird for some reason.
The father is 90 years old, so this is believable to me. I will admit that him being unavailable to verify parts of this story is somewhat suspicious, but does not seem too out of the question.

I'm not sure there would be much in the way of records, like most people are thinking. Low income properties tend to be very loosely rented. Seldom even having leases or rental agreements. Often to transient types (farmers, pickers).
It would depend on how thorough the father was in his record-keeping. The infamous Box from Hell contains every bank statement and every correspondance that GW ever wrote since 1967 (mostly because GW was compulsive about record keeping). If the father was as thorough, he may still have records. I, on the other hand, keep nothing on file from even last month.

Construction? Doesn't that usually pay pretty good? Coincidence that Bill is same line of work as Joe Ford and Craig Barrick? Then again, there has been alot of growth so I suppose it isn't too remarkable a coincidence.
I had considered, that since construction was specifically mentioned, that perhaps there was a tie-in to perhaps a co-worker of Joe's that had overheard a conversation about Anna and "chose" her as a result. Joe does not recall any co-worker who fits that description and says that he was an apprentice and kept to himself for the most part and wouldn't have discussed his family with any co-workers.

The pay for construction workers varies quite a bit: a journeyman union worker would have made a pretty good wage, while a non-union general laborer would have made substantially less.

About the coincidence of the abducter, Joe and Barick all being in construction: the fact that Joe was a construction worker was not mentioned in article. Unless the tipster came to this website and read the entire thread to glean that fact before making her call, there is no way that she would have known this.

...I too find it odd that Anna would be telling her story and not have told it to others...Then, I'm not so sure she knows the truth of her situation. She was young enough she could easily be led to believe something else happened to her. People don't usually have alot of recollection from that age. I suppose the abductor could have told Anna the truth and Anna was sharing that info, but I really kinda doubt she would have stayed missing long if that was true...
I am also uncomfortable with this detail of the story, but I cannot dismiss it outright. Anna's statements seem to display an unusually mature and deep understanding of her situation for an eight year old. However, enough of this case is illogical, yet true (How many people would believe that an Ivy League educated physician making $75,000 a year in the 1970's would be living in a sleazy hotel with a crazy guru as his mentor?).

The "veiled threat" the teenager remembers. I don't get it. How is that a threat? What does it mean? ...
The tipster did not specifically call the statement about "living in a cage" a threat. I used that term based on reading between the lines of what she was saying - and I could be wrong in that interpetation.

It could be a bad lead. That is always a possibility. It could also be someone who knows something, but doesn't want to be completely honest about what they know. Consider this scenerio. Bill is a family member. Not her dad, but say an uncle or even very close friend of the family. Someone you wouldn't want to get in trouble (no threats needed). Someone you might have wished would do the right thing, but someone you really don't want harm to come to. Maybe even someone you can half way sympathize with.
I got the distinct feeling that there is more to the story than I was being told. I probed as much as I could without driving her away, but there are more details to be discovered in future conversations.

...I also think you should let the police know about the tip. They have more resources to determine the credibility and follow up on any further leads. Besides, this isn't really a closed case. I think you are kinda obligated to let the police know (hint, hint).
There are a couple of things that I want to accomplish before we turn this over to LE: First, I want to establish in my mind that this is most likely true (I don't want to publically state what means are being used to confirm this presently). Secondly, I want to be sure that the tipster is willing to tell her story to LE. I have tried hard to have a good working relationship with the local LE - if I brought them a hot tip that fell apart upon any review, it would damage whatever trust we have been able to build with them.

[Dr. Doogie]

...Remember when I said it is possible to live in HMB and not be known? This is how I did it. I worked for someone there and lived on their property in a trailor (with my boyfriend). We also stole all their booze and they never did figure out what happened to it! ~laughs~ I was a mess in my younger days, but suffice it to say, alot can happen in HMB that the community is not aware of. ;)
Interestingly, the meeting between the tipster and Anna (if true) occured only about four blocks from where Annasmom lived (and about one and a half blocks from where I lived at the time).

[Elberethe]

Interestingly, the meeting between the tipster and Anna (if true) occured only about four blocks from where Annasmom lived (and about one and a half blocks from where I lived at the time).

Ok, 3rd tip then! Wow, that is alot! The guy who murdered and buried in his yard is terrible though. I wonder if his victim was random or known to him. There must be some news account of that too, I would think. I don't remember anything like that, but I wasn't into true crime as much back then as I am now. Still, think something like that one would remember it. How long ago did this happen? The murder/burial?

Yah, it is close. I dreamed it was, but since I have often wondered how they kept it hidden. I see other cases where it is, but I guess I just don't want to believe Anna lives or ever lived under those conditions. Glad you picked up on the "there is more to the story" from the teenager. I can understand only wanting to give credible tips to the police. I can also understand wanting to make sure you have someone willing to cooperate. Still, isn't all tips suppose to go to the police? They can't loose faith over bad tips ... they are suppose to take all. Not your fault if one is bad. Just don't want you to get in trouble for something stupid like "impeding an investigation" even tho there isn't much of one going on. Know what I mean?

Well, I have to be off now. Talk to you all later. You won't be far from my thoughts. :blowkiss:

[Dr. Doogie]

The guy who murdered and buried in his yard is terrible though. I wonder if his victim was random or known to him. There must be some news account of that too, I would think. I don't remember anything like that, but I wasn't into true crime as much back then as I am now. Still, think something like that one would remember it. How long ago did this happen? The murder/burial?This occured in the early 1990's. We have been able to trace this guy living on PC Road as far back as 1981, but not farther. Also, the murder was over money between acquaintances. I should have more info by the beginning of next week concerning this guy, but for now it is just a known bad-guy who lived near where Anna disappeared at a much later date. Absent any additional incriminating info, it is most likely unrelated.

The murderer in question was named Ronald R. Middleton. The victim's name was Henry Olson.

[Gina_M]

When the man was in another room, the girl identified herself as "Anna" and that the man was not her father. Anna stated that the man had taken her because his wife couldn't have children and she wanted a daughter. Anna asked the teenager to "Tell my mother that I am okay", but didn't want to do anything that would get her new parents in trouble. Anna's hair had been died dark brown.

When the man returned to the room, he realized what had been discussed and stated that he didn't want to "live the rest of his life in a cage". The teenager interpeted this as a veiled threat to keep quiet about what she had heard. As the man and Anna were leaving, the teen told the man that "You are in your forties - you're old enough to know better than to do this!". The man stopped, turned to her and replied, "I am forty-seven." She described him as stocky, about 5' 8" or taller with light brown short hair. She stated that he was a construction worker and that Anna referred to him as "Bill".

OMG...when I read this post, I must say my jaw dropped wide open and my heart started racing! After reading some of the replies I can see why we should be cautious...but I still think there is a good possibility that it's true. Anna, if this girl was Anna, did seem to display a very mature and deep understanding of the situation for her age. But from everything I've read about Anna (Annasmom can verify this :) ), she was very mature for her age.

Oh, and it is easy (for me) to remember the exact year something happened, especially when I was young. We often tie significant events in our memory with what grade we were in school, or something else significant. For example, "I know xxx happened in 1993 because it was right before I graduated from high school". So that part seems very credible to me :)

[Dr. Doogie]

I have discovered new information that raises questions about the reliability of our witness. Her sincerity is not in question, just the truthfulness of her testimony.

Her information may still be of value, but it certainly means that much more needs to evaluated before any involvement by LE or the media is considered.

[Annasmom]

I have discovered new information that raises questions about the reliability of our witness. Her sincerity is not in question, just the truthfulness of her testimony.

Her information may still be of value, but it certainly means that much more needs to evaluated before any involvement by LE or the media is considered. It seems as if Doogie's caution was justified in this case, which should come as no surprise. Our responses told a lot about us, actually, whether hopeful, optimistic, pessimistic. Curiously, my reaction was fear...and it has taken all weekend to get over it. Planting five of the baby ferns from the Birthday mother fern helped.

[mfmangel1]

It seems as if Doogie's caution was justified in this case, which should come as no surprise. Our responses told a lot about us, actually, whether hopeful, optimistic, pessimistic. Curiously, my reaction was fear...and it has taken all weekend to get over it. Planting five of the baby ferns from the Birthday mother fern helped.

Annasmom-

I believe we all had our guards up regarding this lead. I am so saddend that you were actually experiencing fear over this source of info.
Perhaps you knew best.
However, I know that no one here wishes to put you through any more negative emotions, so for that, I apologize. There has already been too much pain.
Hopefully we can move forward and the next lead will be a more positive
step toward finding Anna.

[Annasmom]

I know that no one here wishes to put you through any more negative emotions, so for that, I apologize. There has already been too much pain.Hopefully we can move forward and the next lead will be a more positivestep toward finding Anna.Mfangel1, anything that might give us information is not painful, and I was afraid because I'm just a wimp. However, I have to tell you that knowing I have you all behind me makes me much braver (though still not as brave as Doogie.)
:blowkiss:

[gardenmom]

Annasmom, I just wanted to let you know I still read here and think of you often. You are braver than you know, although I think Doogie is your Knight in Shining Armour.

[SherlockJr]

I can't help but think that if Anna were taken by a couple that she would suffer from Stockholm Syndrome. As Annasmom quoted in an earlier post regarding the tipster from the newspaper article, some of the people involved may be dead. I also think Anna will come forward sometime after her captors have passed on if she still has memories from the age of 5.

In regards to the e-mail Dr Doogie received from woman who attended the Tulsa Community College, is there maybe a message board for graduates. Can we try and locate any teachers from the college who taught the art of massage? If this was taught at this school.

The person we are searching (Anna) could fit the description of someone dealing with issues of her identity.

[Annasmom]

I can't help but think that if Anna were taken by a couple that she would suffer from Stockholm Syndrome. As Annasmom quoted in an earlier post regarding the tipster from the newspaper article, some of the people involved may be dead. I also think Anna will come forward sometime after her captors have passed on if she still has memories from the age of 5.
The person we are searching (Anna) could fit the description of someone dealing with issues of her identity.

We have spoken again at some length to the woman who believes she saw and spoke with Anna in fall of 1976 at a house barely 14 miles from where Anna disappeared. Although there are some discrepancies in the story, we believe this person is truthful and cannot entirely discount her belief. She says she never saw the little girl or the man who accompanied her after this one instance, but that she remembered the names and the scenario because it was so strange. She telephoned Doogie in response to the story in the Half Moon Bay Review. Much of what she says is found in the storyand there is no new hard evidence which we can follow to track Anna’s whereabouts after this time. This witness believes a couple (possibly named “Bill” and “Michelle”) took Anna from her home because they wanted a child. We have asked her to contact us if she remembers anything else which might help us, but we probably now have all she remembers, and then some. She seems to be a shy woman who wants to help and who has no agenda of her own in this matter. SherlockJr and Doogie are tracking two different time periods and situations related to the woman’s story. Hope for the best.

[Dr. Doogie]

The parts of the woman's story that can be verified have all proved to be true: who she is, the names of her relatives, where she went to high school, that she and her family owned many rental properties in San Mateo County. SherlockJr has also discovered that the woman is a licensed nurse with no disciplinary action against her, so that also tends to point out to her not being just some crazy person "jerking our chain". (It should be pointed out that George Waters was a doctor, yet he was still crazy, but his record showed a history of erractic behavior and ended with his license being revoked.)

One thing that she mentioned in this most recent conversation was that her father had also rented a house to Lawrence Singleton who was infamous as a rapist who kidnapped and chopped off the arms of a fifteen-year-old hitchhiker named Mary Vincent in the late 1970's. This is not related to Anna's disappearance (Singleton is not "Bill"), but this is another bit of data that can possibly be verified. I have not been able to locate any information on the internet that Singleton resided in San Mateo County in the 1970's - can any out there come up with this information? He would have probably lived in the cities of San Mateo, Redwood City or Mountain View. If we can verify this, it will add to the believability of other parts of her story that are not as easily verifiable.

Another part of her story that should be able to be confirmed is that there was a rash of home burglaries in her neighborhood during the the timeframe that she saw Anna (she believes that "Bill" was actually at her home to burglarize it). She mentioned at least one specific break-in on her street that should be easy to confirm. We are looking into verifying this rash of burglaries with local media/police records and should have an answer soon.

[SherlockJr]

... This witness believes a couple (possibly named “Bill” and “Michelle”) took Anna from her home because they wanted a child. We have asked her to contact us if she remembers anything else which might help us, but we probably now have all she remembers, and then some. She seems to be a shy woman who wants to help and who has no agenda of her own in this matter. SherlockJr and Doogie are tracking two different time periods and situations related to the woman’s story. Hope for the best.
Another thing that is digging inside of me is that if this was Anna that was seen and spoken to in 1976, the person who took Anna somehow knew, or was an aquaintance of Anna's family.

[rideforfun]

This woman sounds like she wants to be helpful. I think we should ask her if she would be willing to under go hypnosis with the objective of remembering additional detail. I'm not sure how much that would cost but I know there are experts who do this type of hypnosis and I would personally find the way to raise the money. It is our best lead and we should go for it from every angle. And, if Bill was stealing perhaps he might have been questioned by the police at some point and be in the sytem in some capacity.

[SherlockJr]

This woman sounds like she wants to be helpful. I think we should ask her if she would be willing to under go hypnosis with the objective of remembering additional detail. I'm not sure how much that would cost but I know there are experts who do this type of hypnosis and I would personally find the way to raise the money. It is our best lead and we should go for it from every angle. And, if Bill was stealing perhaps he might have been questioned by the police at some point and be in the sytem in some capacity.
This certainly can be a direction to take after we can confirm the robberies and other information that she offered.

[Mr. E]

This is certainly a long shot, especially as to the "how," but if a photograph or sketch of the woman in question ("Michelle") could be procured, perhaps Anna's brother could see if it resembles the woman who approached them on the road that day, the woman who seemed to be so interested in Anna.

[Dr. Doogie]

Another part of her story that should be able to be confirmed is that there was a rash of home burglaries in her neighborhood during the the timeframe that she saw Anna (she believes that "Bill" was actually at her home to burglarize it). She mentioned at least one specific break-in on her street that should be easy to confirm. We are looking into verifying this rash of burglaries with local media/police records and should have an answer soon.
I was hoping that Marc Longpre (the reporter who wrote the article about Anna for the HMB Review) would be able to access the newspaper's archives to check the "Police Log" section of the paper to verify a rash of burglaries in the neighborhood in question. Unfortunately, the paper does not maintain archives that far back. He suggested that the local library probably has those papers on file. Sounds like another trip to HMB may in the near future...

[Gina_M]

One thing that she mentioned in this most recent conversation was that her father had also rented a house to Lawrence Singleton who was infamous as a rapist who kidnapped and chopped off the arms of a fifteen-year-old hitchhiker named Mary Vincent in the late 1970's. This is not related to Anna's disappearance (Singleton is not "Bill"), but this is another bit of data that can possibly be verified. I have not been able to locate any information on the internet that Singleton resided in San Mateo County in the 1970's - can any out there come up with this information? He would have probably lived in the cities of San Mateo, Redwood City or Mountain View. If we can verify this, it will add to the believability of other parts of her story that are not as easily verifiable.
I've been searching the internet for info about Lawrence Singleton...so far all I can find is that he lived in Contra Costa County (city of San Pablo) at the time he kidnapped and tortured Mary Vincent (1978). After serving just 8 years in prison, he was paroled, but several counties refused to let him live within their borders. Eventually he moved back to Florida.

I'll keep searching...

ETA:

Singleton also had a residence in Nevada at the same time he lived in San Pablo. He was a retired merchant seaman, so maybe he moved around a lot. Perhaps he had multiple residences that no one knew about :waitasec:

[mfmangel1]

Another thing that is digging inside of me is that if this was Anna that was seen and spoken to in 1976, the person who took Anna somehow knew, or was an aquaintance of Anna's family.
Hi Sherlock-

Have I missed something of great importance? What leads you to this conclusion?

[SherlockJr]

Hi Sherlock-

Have I missed something of great importance? What leads you to this conclusion?
Hi Mfm, just from the conversation with the person who claims to have seen Anna. Really just a gut feeling. ;)

[Dr. Doogie]

I've been searching the internet for info about Lawrence Singleton...so far all I can find is that he lived in Contra Costa County (city of San Pablo) at the time he kidnapped and tortured Mary Vincent (1978). After serving just 8 years in prison, he was paroled, but several counties refused to let him live within their borders. Eventually he moved back to Florida.

I'll keep searching...

ETA:

Singleton also had a residence in Nevada at the same time he lived in San Pablo. He was a retired merchant seaman, so maybe he moved around a lot. Perhaps he had multiple residences that no one knew about :waitasec:
It dawned on me after I made my initial post about Singleton that he may have resided in one of the father's rental homes after he was paroled. Singleton settled and then was run out of several towns after his release from prison, and the woman stated that her father had no problem with renting to parolees.

[Gina_M]

Singleton attempted to rent a room at the Burlingame Hotel, which has rooms for short- and long-term residents, in 1987. The owner turned him away. Burlingame is in San Mateo County. All the other places he lived or attempted to live, that I can find, are in Contra Costa County. But, if he tried this hotel, he probably tried other places in San Mateo County too.

[Annasmom]

Singleton attempted to rent a room at the Burlingame Hotel, which has rooms for short- and long-term residents, in 1987. The owner turned him away. Burlingame is in San Mateo County. All the other places he lived or attempted to live, that I can find, are in Contra Costa County. But, if he tried this hotel, he probably tried other places in San Mateo County too.Burlingame is virtually next door to the rental properties which came up in our tipster's statement. But why are we looking for this Singleton?

[SherlockJr]

Burlingame is virtually next door to the rental properties which came up in our tipster's statement. But why are we looking for this Singleton?
Annasmom, I believe someone was trying to establish if Singleton lived in the area in the 1970's.

[SherlockJr]

This is certainly a long shot, especially as to the "how," but if a photograph or sketch of the woman in question ("Michelle") could be procured, perhaps Anna's brother could see if it resembles the woman who approached them on the road that day, the woman who seemed to be so interested in Anna.
The woman today, who saw Anna, was in her teens 30 years ago. She only mentioned seeing "Bill" and "Anna" in her home.

[Dr. Doogie]

...But why are we looking for this Singleton?
I am looking into Singleton only because the tipster mentioned that her father had rented to Singleton as an example of how he would rent to people of questionable character. Since this should be a verifiable fact (where Singleton lived), confirming it will help convince me in the truthfulness of the tipster.

[Annasmom]

I am looking into Singleton only because the tipster mentioned that her father had rented to Singleton as an example of how he would rent to people of questionable character. Since this should be a verifiable fact (where Singleton lived), confirming it will help convince me in the truthfulness of the tipster.

Doogie, you and Sherlock are going to be proud of me. I just got home from a marathon reading session at the Half Moon Bay Library. I read all the 1976 issues of the Half Moon Bay Review, looking for burglaries in particular, and in fact the paper reported many burglaries from May to September of that year (the informant believes she saw a 47-year-old man with an eight-year-old girl some time between September and November of 1976.) No names of suspects in these cases were given, and there was no follow-up on the stories.
In the June 17 issue, Assistant Sheriff John Barker of the San Mateo County Sheriff’s Department, commenting on Coastside burglaries, said “I realize that police protection over there isn’t as good as it should be, but getting more protection costs big bucks. We are working with the people on the north coast and are hoping to improve the protection over there."
In August, 1976, an important story appeared in the Review: “Following an outcry by many residents of the coastside about ‘unsolved burglary cases,’ the sheriff’s office of San Mateo County on Monday opened a branch office at the Half Moon Bay Airport. The office has direct radio and telephone communication to sheriff’s headquarters at Redwood City and is headed by Lt. Gerald Moerman, who served for many years as a detective and has worked on a number of coastside cases...”
“The greatest number of burglaries in the past two years have occurred on the coastside in the communities of El Granada, Montara and Moss Beach.” These are all unincorporated communities. The informant who believes she saw Anna in 1976 lived on a rural road between two of these communities. Her belief that the intruders with a little girl may have been burglars is justified (if not confirmed) by these news stories.
The August Review story continues, “With the new office on the coastside, some observers said that the number of ‘unsolved burglaries’ will decrease because the sheriff’s men can move more quickly to the scene of a crime from their new local base; also less time will be spent riding ‘to and from’ Redwood City.”
Only two other burglaries, both in El Granada, were reported in the Review in 1976 after the substation opened. Each burglary story in 1976 ends by stating that no suspects have been found.
I made copies of stories about burglaries which occurred near where our informant lives (from a microfiche machine probably as old as the tapes I was reading), but they add very little information to the above. The main point is that this aspect of the informant’s story is credible.

[rideforfun]

Excellent searching Annasmom. This is starting to really come together!! Any chance we can talk to some retired policemen who might be able to offer some personal insight into any suspects they had but couldn't charge???? Some of the police from that time must still be around!

Way to go. I believe we are getting closer to Anna everyday.

[Dr. Doogie]

...The main point is that this aspect of the informant’s story is credible.So far, every detail of her story that we have been able to verify one way or the other has proved factual. I am to the point that I believe we have to take her report of seeing Anna as truthful until we find specific evidence otherwise. (I still believe that some aspects of her story are embellished, but are built upon a foundation of the truth).

If this is truthful, that means that we are on the right track with the theory that Anna was abducted by a stranger and raised as his daughter. And that means that, at least in 1976, Anna was alive and healthy, which eliminates the possibilty that she was taken by a predator and was killed shortly after the abduction. No, she was alive, which means that she probably is still alive out there, ready to found.

Let's find her!
:woohoo:

[Dr. Doogie]

Any chance we can talk to some retired policemen who might be able to offer some personal insight into any suspects they had but couldn't charge???? Some of the police from that time must still be around!
Great idea! I'll look into it.

[SherlockJr]

Let's find her!
:woohoo:


We're all here with you Doogie & Annasmom!

[SherlockJr]

Doogie, you and Sherlock are going to be proud of me. I just got home from a marathon reading session at the Half Moon Bay Library. I read all the 1976 issues of the Half Moon Bay Review, looking for burglaries in particular, and in fact the paper reported many burglaries from May to September of that year (the informant believes she saw a 47-year-old man with an eight-year-old girl some time between September and November of 1976.) No names of suspects in these cases were given, and there was no follow-up on the stories...
Burlaries reported between May to September. I find it odd they ended in September. (the time the witness saw Anna) Could they have left town soon after?

[Annasmom]

We're all here with you Doogie & Annasmom!
I just love you guys.

I was in such a hurry to post the Review material that I neglected to include this story from June 10, 1976.
"Thieves who have been trucking away thousands of dollars worth of loot from isolated Coastside ranches during recent weeks hit the ranch of a San Francisco mortician and trucked away more than $6,300 worth of shop equipment. James L. Taylor, 53, who said he works several days at a time in San Francisco and then returns to his ranch on Lobitos Creek Road, reported to Sheriff's Deputy David R. Vogt that not only was his ranch burglarized, but a neighbor's as well."
Lobitos Creek Road is a stone's throw from Purisima Creek Road, where Anna disappeared.
The story continues: "Ranchers reported they have seen a blue flatbed truck in the area during the past few days when the burglaries took place. Vogt said Taylor's barn and ranchhouse were entered by burglars wearing gloves and using bolt cutters. He said they apparently knew exactly what they wanted."

[itsreenw]

Doogie, can you get in touch with the tipster and ask if she'd be willing to meet with a sketch artist to do a composite of the man and girl?? Anybody know where we'd find a sketch artist if she says yes????

[itsreenw]

excerpt from article about Lawrence Singleton:
Link http://www.salon.com/march97/news/news970305.html

on a cloudy Wednesday, Feb. 19, now 69-year-old Lawrence Singleton began his day by installing a drainpipe alongside his newly renovated home in the Orient Park neighborhood of east Tampa, Fla. He'd transformed the abandoned barracks his brother Herb bought him into a showplace. His yard was perfectly preened. He fastidiously wiped his cat's paw prints off neighbors' cars. "Bill," as Singleton called himself these days, brought steaks to neighbors and happily watched their kids play with Kala, his Rottweiler puppy. Down at the Brandon Crossroads Bowl, where Singleton was a regular in the Monday afternoon league, his fellow Golden Agers found him "a friendly guy," a good bowler, who'd stop by the snack bar for a midday beer.
Some of his bowling buddies heard he had a past -- a rape in California. "Bill" insisted he'd been "framed." Singleton seemed no more ominous than any other aging native son who returns to spend his last years at home and at peace.

I know it was determined that Bill and Michelle was not Lawrence Singleton and a companion but I just saw the name Bill and thought it was a coincidence.

[Annasmom]

excerpt from article about Lawrence Singleton:
Link http://www.salon.com/march97/news/news970305.html

I know it was determined that Bill and Michelle was not Lawrence Singleton and a companion but I just saw the name Bill and thought it was a coincidence.That would have made him 47 or 47 in 1976, unless my arithmetic is completely off (which it sometimes is.) Our informant said Bill said his age was 47. Have we for sure ruled out this man?

[gardenmom]

That would have made him 47 or 47 in 1976, unless my arithmetic is completely off (which it sometimes is.) Our informant said Bill said his age was 47. Have we for sure ruled out this man?
I sure hope so, Annasmom.

[itsreenw]

I will try to find a picture of Singleton from the 70's but I'd really like the tipster to have her description of the pair Man/girl drawn as a composite before she sees the pic of Singleton so her memory isn't distorted.
I am also trying to find his CA addresses.
One thing to note-Singleton did have a van. I don't think it was him though. Seems he wouldn't be interested in little girls although he did tell Mary Vincent he had a daughter named Debra when he picked her up. He does not have a daughter named Debra. It could have been a lie to make her feel comfortable about riding with him. I think he told Mary his daughter was around her age.

[SherlockJr]

I will try to find a picture of Singleton from the 70's but I'd really like the tipster to have her description of the pair Man/girl drawn as a composite before she sees the pic of Singleton so her memory isn't distorted.
I am also trying to find his CA addresses.
One thing to note-Singleton did have a van. I don't think it was him though. Seems he wouldn't be interested in little girls although he did tell Mary Vincent he had a daughter named Debra when he picked her up. He does not have a daughter named Debra. It could have been a lie to make her feel comfortable about riding with him. I think he told Mary his daughter was around her age.
If the tipster gave us the information that Singleton rented from her father, I would guess she would know what he looked like.

I found he did have a daughter.

[SherlockJr]

That would have made him 47 or 47 in 1976, unless my arithmetic is completely off (which it sometimes is.) Our informant said Bill said his age was 47. Have we for sure ruled out this man?
According to SSDI, Lawrence Singleton was born on July 28, 1927 and died on Dec. 28, 2001. He would have been 49 years old in the fall of 1976.

[Dr. Doogie]

Have we for sure ruled out this man?
I do not believe that Singleton is the same "Bill", but when I saw the same article that Itsreenw posted, I started looking into him. He did have a daughter named Debra Ann who is alive and well, working as pyschiatric nurse in Seattle, WA. Some of the facts that we know about her line up with what we suspect happened to Anna, but there appear to be legitimate birth records showing that Debra Ann was born in 1963 (which would be too much of a stretch to pass Anna of as this age, especially in her younger years). However, I would be more confident in this conclusion if we could find a picture of Debra Ann for comparison, but I have not located one yet.

[Dr. Doogie]

It dawned on me that we have two potential areas of followup investigation on the tipster's information:

1) See if the SMC Sheriffs have any information about suspects in the rash of burglaries around HMB in 1976. If they questioned anyone named "Bill" or "William", then that may be a match.

2) The tipster thought that Bill may have been a tenant of her father. We know what houses he currently owns and it appears that they are the same addresses that he owned in 1976. I would like to see who lived in these houses in 1976 and see if there is a Bill and Michelle renting one of them in 1976. I have been trying to locate a Polk's City Directory for that area and time, but have not had any luck. The local San Mateo libraries do not have any. Anybody have any suggestions on how to find one?

[Annasmom]

Doogie, can you get in touch with the tipster and ask if she'd be willing to meet with a sketch artist to do a composite of the man and girl?? Anybody know where we'd find a sketch artist if she says yes????
I just realized nobody had responded to this good idea. Sherlock found software which lets you create a mug shot, and at some point we might ask the tipster to try this. Two things: We don't want to burn her out, since she is under family pressure not to get involved. Second, we're still trying to check out things she has already said. To date, every little thing she has said checks out completely.

[Shadow205]

It dawned on me that we have two potential areas of followup investigation on the tipster's information:

1) See if the SMC Sheriffs have any information about suspects in the rash of burglaries around HMB in 1976. If they questioned anyone named "Bill" or "William", then that may be a match.

2) The tipster thought that Bill may have been a tenant of her father. We know what houses he currently owns and it appears that they are the same addresses that he owned in 1976. I would like to see who lived in these houses in 1976 and see if there is a Bill and Michelle renting one of them in 1976. I have been trying to locate a Polk's City Directory for that area and time, but have not had any luck. The local San Mateo libraries do not have any. Anybody have any suggestions on how to find one?
This might be a good place to start http://www.oldtelephonebooks.com/pblink.html

[itsreenw]

If the tipster gave us the information that Singleton rented from her father, I would guess she would know what he looked like.

I found he did have a daughter.I was trying to say that IMO, it would be best to do a composite based solely on what she visualzes from her memory rather than for her to see a picture now that may confuse her actual memory recall with what she sees in a picture. Good find on the daughter. I can't find much on him except the FL trial info.

[SherlockJr]

I was trying to say that IMO, it would be best to do a composite based solely on what she visualzes from her memory rather than for her to see a picture now that may confuse her actual memory recall with what she sees in a picture. Good find on the daughter. I can't find much on him except the FL trial info.
Itsreenw has found a couple artists in California who has agreed to help us on Anna's behalf. I spoke with the tipster a few nights ago and she has agreed to meet with the artists to see if a composite can be made of both Bill and Anna.

[Gina_M]

Itsreenw has found a couple artists in California who has agreed to help us on Anna's behalf. I spoke with the tipster a few nights ago and she has agreed to meet with the artists to see if a composite can be made of both Bill and Anna.
Yay!! That's good news :woohoo:

[SherlockJr]

The woman today, who saw Anna, was in her teens 30 years ago. She only mentioned seeing "Bill" and "Anna" in her home.
The last conversation I had with the newspaper tipster corrected me and told me that she heard a woman's voice but never seen the woman appear at her bedroom door.

[Annasbro]

Does anyone have access to Michigan plate designs from the late 60s? It would be interesting to compare those to what I remember from the sedan back before Anna's disappearance. Also - The white van. I keep thinking about that. It was mentioned by several people and in the original article from the 70s A white van would be typical for a construction person.A friend of ours that lived on the farm had purchased a van around the same time - he was a carpenter. I cannont remember the color. I think it might have been white. I would like to rule that out as the van in question. If the a white van was the vehicle of abduction however, and not the van of our friend, can we connect the prospective step father of C with a any particular vehicles - including a white van (he was a construction worker)?

[MagicRose99]

Here's one from the late 50s early 60s...

http://www.ricksplates.com/LPimages/mi59pass.jpg

[RobinH]

Does anyone have access to Michigan plate designs from the late 60s? It would be interesting to compare those to what I remember from the sedan back before Anna's disappearance. Also - The white van. I keep thinking about that. It was mentioned by several people and in the original article from the 70s A white van would be typical for a construction person.A friend of ours that lived on the farm had purchased a van around the same time - he was a carpenter. I cannont remember the color. I think it might have been white. I would like to rule that out as the van in question. If the a white van was the vehicle of abduction however, and not the van of our friend, can we connect the prospective step father of C with a any particular vehicles - including a white van (he was a construction worker)?
Annasbro, check out this website, it might help.
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/1151/SAMPLE-MI.html

[Dr. Doogie]

Does anyone have access to Michigan plate designs from the late 60s? It would be interesting to compare those to what I remember from the sedan back before Anna's disappearance. Also - The white van. I keep thinking about that. It was mentioned by several people and in the original article from the 70s A white van would be typical for a construction person.A friend of ours that lived on the farm had purchased a van around the same time - he was a carpenter. I cannont remember the color. I think it might have been white. I would like to rule that out as the van in question. If the a white van was the vehicle of abduction however, and not the van of our friend, can we connect the prospective step father of C with a any particular vehicles - including a white van (he was a construction worker)?
I looked at Michigan plates and there is only one year that the colors matched up with what you saw: 1962. This would be unlikely since an 1962 vehicle would be substantially different from a late 1960's-early 1970's model.

This is new information about the van that the friend had - can you email or PM me any info about the friend (such as his name and how long he was there at the property)?

The construction worker in C's family is her "step-father". We are not sure of her "father's" profession, but she thinks it may have been as a truck driver.

[MagicRose99]

OH! Here you go... check out THIS link; it has all the plates for 1960s Michigan:

http://www.worldlicenceplates.com/jpglps/USA_MI_GI6_1960's.jpg

[Dr. Doogie]

I looked at Michigan plates and there is only one year that the colors matched up with what you saw: 1962.
In reviewing the site that MagicRose99 linked, the 1962 plate was also used through 1964 with a different tag designating 1963 or 1964.

[Annasbro]

I can not rule out that the green and yellow plate was not the one. The white with green letters and the green with yellow letters both look like they could be the ones. It was a long time ago.

[Dr. Doogie]

I could not tell you with 100% certainty what color the lettering is on my license plates right now, so the fact that you recall as much as you do is amazing.

[Gina_M]

It is also possible that they could have already had the plates for a number of years, and then switched them onto a newer vehicle later. In California the plates seem to come with the vehicle, but in other states (at least the one I grew up in) you get the plates separately and can keep the plates if you sell your old car and buy a new one.

ETA:

As an example, my dad inherited a 1970s Buick from his grandfather, along with the vanity plates. When the car would no longer run, my dad sold it but kept the old plates. He then bought a 1990s model car and put his grandfather's old vanity plates on the new car. (This was in Illinois.) So a car and its plates can definitely be from different eras.

[SherlockJr]

I got to thinking, which sometimes can be dangerous, whoever took Anna may not have gone back to their hometown and family. How would you explain having custody of a child especially one who is 5 yrs old? Just throwing in another idea, suppose the family had not seen the couple who took Anna and reported him/her missing. A woman was last seen by her father on June 1, 1972 is listed in the Doe network. http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/1665dfca.html
Not sure if the link will bring up her page, you may have to do a search and use the number 1665dfca. This woman seems to fit Annasbro's description of the woman in the car. What all can we find out about this mystery woman?

[mfmangel1]

There are two Antoinette Marinos in Cali:

ANTOINETTE MARINO (http://www.intelius.com/redir.php?qf=ANTOINETTE&qn=MARINO&qmi=&qc= LAKEWOOD&qs=CA&qa=&refer=1198&adword=background+check&searchform=background)
4638 VANGOLD AVE
LAKEWOOD, CA (http://www.zabasearch.com/redirects/addresslink_redir.php?a=4638 VANGOLD AVE&c= LAKEWOOD&s=CA&z=90712) 90712 (http://www.zabasearch.com/frames/zaba_web_search.php?engine=zip-code&linktype=zipcode&zipcode=90712&sn=ANTOINETTE++MARINO&fn=ANTOINETTE&ln=MARINO&c= LAKEWOOD&s=CA)


ANTOINETTE MARINO (http://www.intelius.com/redir.php?qf=ANTOINETTE&qn=MARINO&qmi=&qc= LAKEWOOD&qs=CA&qa=&refer=1198&adword=background+check&searchform=background)
5919 PEARCE AVE
LAKEWOOD, CA (http://www.zabasearch.com/redirects/addresslink_redir.php?a=5919 PEARCE AVE&c= LAKEWOOD&s=CA&z=90712) 90712 (http://www.zabasearch.com/frames/zaba_web_search.php?engine=zip-code&linktype=zipcode&zipcode=90712&sn=ANTOINETTE++MARINO&fn=ANTOINETTE&ln=MARINO&c= LAKEWOOD&s=CA)

It's a fairly unusual name.

I have to wonder if "C" would recognize her. I have been thinking of her so often lately. I am hoping she is happy in her new marriage and enjoying the holiday season.

[SherlockJr]

There are two Antoinette Marinos in Cali:

ANTOINETTE MARINO (http://www.intelius.com/redir.php?qf=ANTOINETTE&qn=MARINO&qmi=&qc= LAKEWOOD&qs=CA&qa=&refer=1198&adword=background+check&searchform=background)
4638 VANGOLD AVE
LAKEWOOD, CA (http://www.zabasearch.com/redirects/addresslink_redir.php?a=4638 VANGOLD AVE&c= LAKEWOOD&s=CA&z=90712) 90712 (http://www.zabasearch.com/frames/zaba_web_search.php?engine=zip-code&linktype=zipcode&zipcode=90712&sn=ANTOINETTE++MARINO&fn=ANTOINETTE&ln=MARINO&c= LAKEWOOD&s=CA)


ANTOINETTE MARINO (http://www.intelius.com/redir.php?qf=ANTOINETTE&qn=MARINO&qmi=&qc= LAKEWOOD&qs=CA&qa=&refer=1198&adword=background+check&searchform=background)
5919 PEARCE AVE
LAKEWOOD, CA (http://www.zabasearch.com/redirects/addresslink_redir.php?a=5919 PEARCE AVE&c= LAKEWOOD&s=CA&z=90712) 90712 (http://www.zabasearch.com/frames/zaba_web_search.php?engine=zip-code&linktype=zipcode&zipcode=90712&sn=ANTOINETTE++MARINO&fn=ANTOINETTE&ln=MARINO&c= LAKEWOOD&s=CA)

It's a fairly unusual name.

I have to wonder if "C" would recognize her. I have been thinking of her so often lately. I am hoping she is happy in her new marriage and enjoying the holiday season.
I found an exact match to her dob:

MARINO, AGNES (http://www.veromi.net/order.asp?1=AGNES;;;;MARINO;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;52227 7125;;&2=name&3=people&4=1&5=;;;;marino;;;;;;10;;18;;1942;;)64 AvailableAvailable(1)Available CLEARFIELD, PA


Almost choked on the street name

[Dr. Doogie]

This is all very interesting. According to the missing poster, Antoinette Marino spent time in Big Sur in the late 1960's (about one hundred miles away from Half Moon Bay on the same highway).

[Dr. Doogie]

We are finding some very interesting information concerning Antoinette Marino - stuff that fits nicely with the theory about the couple in the car, the information from the CA tipster and Mystery Woman C. Nothing concrete (yet), but we are moving forward quickly on this!

[Dr. Doogie]

I have been in contact with a friend of the daughter of Antoinette Marino who is assisting the daughter in the search for her mother. The daughter was placed for adoption at age one (circmstances unknown at this time).

Here is where things get very interesting: "C" and the daughter share the same first name. C's middle name is "Antoinette", the same as the missing woman Marino. I am awaiting a response from the friend to discover if the middle name of the adoptee is also "Antoinette", which would mean that both C and the adoptee share the same first and middle name. On the adoption reunion site where we discovered the adoptee, the birth father's first name is listed as "Bill" (it turns out that subsequent to the posting on the reunion site, a DNA test was done between "Bill" and the adoptee and was negative, so Bill is not the adoptee's father).

We do know that Antoinette frequented the Salinas and Big Sur areas of Northern California (approximately 100 miles from Half Moon Bay on Highway 1). Annasbro says that Antoinette looks like what he remembers the woman in the car looking like (but cannot positively identify her). And that Antoinette has not been seen by her family since about seven months prior to Anna's disappearance which would fit into a scenario where she and a male accomplice were on the run with an abducted child.

My working hypothesis (based currently on speculation and coincidences) is that Marino may have felt that society "owed" her a daughter and took Anna as a replacement, giving her the same first and middle names as her actual daughter. It is possible (but unlikely) that Antoinette Marino is the same woman as C's "mother" (I am awaiting to hear if C recognizes the pictures of Marino). If she is not the same woman, it is still possible that somehow C was transfered from Marino's possesion to C's "parents". (Remember: The above paragraph is my speculation and is not based on any verifiable evidence. It is only presented so that we have an idea of one avenue of exploration!)

Hopefully, we will have additional information shortly that will help bolster or shoot down this hypothesis.

[LinasK]

I have been in contact with a friend of the daughter of Antoinette Marino who is assisting the daughter in the search for her mother. The daughter was placed for adoption at age one (circmstances unknown at this time).

Here is where things get very interesting: "C" and the daughter share the same first name. C's middle name is "Antoinette", the same as the missing woman Marino. I am awaiting a response from the friend to discover if the middle name of the adoptee is also "Antoinette", which would mean that both C and the adoptee share the same first and middle name. On the adoption reunion site where we discovered the adoptee, the birth father's first name is listed as "Bill" (it turns out that subsequent to the posting on the reunion site, a DNA test was done between "Bill" and the adoptee and was negative, so Bill is not the adoptee's father).

We do know that Antoinette frequented the Salinas and Big Sur areas of Northern California (approximately 100 miles from Half Moon Bay on Highway 1). Annasbro says that Antoinette looks like what he remembers the woman in the car looking like (but cannot positively identify her). And that Antoinette has not been seen by her family since about seven months prior to Anna's disappearance which would fit into a scenario where she and a male accomplice were on the run with an abducted child.

My working hypothesis (based currently on speculation and coincidences) is that Marino may have felt that society "owed" her a daughter and took Anna as a replacement, giving her the same first and middle names as her actual daughter. It is possible (but unlikely) that Antoinette Marino is the same woman as C's "mother" (I am awaiting to hear if C recognizes the pictures of Marino). If she is not the same woman, it is still possible that somehow C was transfered from Marino's possesion to C's "parents". (Remember: The above paragraph is my speculation and is not based on any verifiable evidence. It is only presented so that we have an idea of one avenue of exploration!)

Hopefully, we will have additional information shortly that will help bolster or shoot down this hypothesis.
Doesn't that seven moths prior also fit into the time frame of C's "birth announcement" as I recall?

[Dr. Doogie]

C has reviewed the pictures of Antoinette Marino and does not recognize the woman. This means that AM is not the woman that C knows as her mother.

The feedback that I am getting from the adoption search angel who is assisting AM's daughter is that AM is exactly the sort of person who could have taken a girl to replace her daughter. AM abandoned her daughter an the hospital at birth, then later was upset that CPS had placed the girl in foster care. AM made threatening phone calls to the foster parents about the daughter while in prison.

[SherlockJr]

C has reviewed the pictures of Antoinette Marino and does not recognize the woman. This means that AM is not the woman that C knows as her mother.

The feedback that I am getting from the adoption search angel who is assisting AM's daughter is that AM is exactly the sort of person who could have taken a girl to replace her daughter. AM abandoned her daughter an the hospital at birth, then later was upset that CPS had placed the girl in foster care. AM made threatening phone calls to the foster parents about the daughter while in prison.
If Antoinette Marino had a history of drug and alcohol abuse, a
question to ask the adoptee's search angel if they have found any connection with the Synanon.

[Dr. Doogie]

Just a quick note (I cannot say more than this): We have a possible lead on the "Bill" (the abductor) that the tipster spoke of. Needless to say, this is an exciting development!

[smile22]

omg what an exciting lead i am on the edge of my seat waiting for any news i hope alot pans out from this

[suzannej]

The lady whom was 17 at the time when she said she saw Anna with a Bill said that Anna was prononced more with an A , I have listened to your Radio broadcast and noticed that you pronounce Anna differantly to that of the English .Could Bill be from another state? and if so what state ?She obviously remembers this very clearly to remember it .
The other thing is Anna stated that the women (bills wife ??)couldnt have children , could there be any connection with the georges being docters and fertility treatment ?
Hope there not stupid questions .

[Annasmom]

The lady whom was 17 at the time when she said she saw Anna with a Bill said that Anna was prononced more with an A , I have listened to your Radio broadcast and noticed that you pronounce Anna differantly to that of the English .Could Bill be from another state? and if so what state ?She obviously remembers this very clearly to remember it .
The other thing is Anna stated that the women (bills wife ??)couldnt have children , could there be any connection with the georges being docters and fertility treatment ?
Hope there not stupid questions .Suzanne, welcome to the forum. It's great to have someone from the other side of the Atlantic looking at the case. We have always pronounced Anna's name with a broad A (as in "Swan"), but it's a good catch that the woman who believes she saw Anna in 1976 pronounced it the way we do. I am not sure whether this informant had heard DrDoogie say the name. I don't think there's any connection with fertility treatment, which is pretty specialized. GW just worked in emergency rooms and never specialized beyond being a general practicioner. However, the idea that a woman who wanted children might have been involved in Anna's abduction comes up again and again. Thanks for the invitation for a cuppa!

[Dr. Doogie]

An interesting synchronicity has been uncovered that may or may not be related to Anna's disappearance. There is another thread on WS concerning Rose Cole, a sixteen year old girl who disappeared out of the Synanon organization about the same time as Anna's disappearance. It is unknown if she ran away from the drug treatment facility or met with foul play.

Of particular interest is the postmark of her last correspondence with her family: January 16, 1973, sent from San Francisco. The letter had been written in December 23, 1972 and was sent on this later date. The December date would align with the first sighting of the "couple in the car", while the postmark matches the date that Anna disappeared. Recall that SherlockJr hypothesised that the abducter could also be listed as a missing person - this would allow them to avoid explaining how they "added" a new daughter to the family. Also, the description of the woman could match Rose's description (except that Rose was younger than Annasbro's recollection).

There is a possible link to George Waters two ways: GW was attempting to work in the drug/alcohol rehab sector at a time when Synanon was the largest player in that fiels, and Rose had been treated for a kidney infection at a free clinic in San Francisco shortly before she disappeared - exactly the sort of place where GW worked (it is unknown which facility she went to).

This is probably just coincidence, but seems worthy of further examination. Any thoughts that you all have would be appreciated.

[SherlockJr]

This is certainly an unexpected discovery you found here connecting Rose Cole to Anna's case. I'm sure Rose's last letter to her family is posted somewhere either here or at MySpace. I think I've come across it at one time. Several months back, I received a PM from a member requesting that I join in the search for Rose. I declined only for the reason that Anna's case is so complicated and being involved in other cases would confuse my cluttered mind. Perhaps spending the time to read the Rose Cole thread might find a connection. Has Annasbro seen a picture of Rose?

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

The letter from Rose was dated 12-23-72, but not mailed until 2-73 because she didn't have a stamp. There was a postcard also sent, but the dates are unclear. At one point Roses step sister said it was dated 1-18-73 (I found from doing a thread search a few minutes ago) and a few days ago when I inquired she said the date was 1-16-73. Also, there must have been one more letter written later in 73 that said she was in China town and had a kidney infection. This info was not on the post card, nor the letter dated 12-23-72 but in another letter the step mom remembers receiving a few months later in 73, (no one seems to know what happened to it). Hope that clears things up, though I'm still not convinced these 2 girls didn't fall into the same hands. Could very well be one of those Steve Stayner abduction stories where an older abducted helps to abduct a younger child.

[Dr. Doogie]

Has Annasbro seen a picture of Rose?

Not yet.

[Shadow205]

Well now that you have brought the possibilty up that brings the whole Synanon thing back into the picture again. It also IMO brings the little girl in the picture back to the forefront again. Sorry, but I was never convinced that the little girl was not Anna. Everyone else seemed to accept whoever it was that said that they knew who that little girls parents were. I didn't but since the majority did I just let it drop.


http://s13.photobucket.com/albums/a273/shadow205/th_AWaters2.jpghttp://s13.photobucket.com/albums/a273/shadow205/th_Croppedlittlegirl.jpghttp://s13.photobucket.com/albums/a273/shadow205/th_boxes.jpg

:truce:

[Annasmom]

Well now that you have brought the possibilty up that brings the whole Synanon thing back into the picture again. It also IMO brings the little girl in the picture back to the forefront again. Sorry, but I was never convinced that the little girl was not Anna. Everyone else seemed to accept whoever it was that said that they knew who that little girls parents were. I didn't but since the majority did I just let it drop.


http://s13.photobucket.com/albums/a273/shadow205/th_AWaters2.jpghttp://s13.photobucket.com/albums/a273/shadow205/th_Croppedlittlegirl.jpghttp://s13.photobucket.com/albums/a273/shadow205/th_boxes.jpg

:truce: That child does look a lot like Anna, but I thought someone actually identified her (him) as a little boy named Christian whose parents were in Synanon.

[Dr. Doogie]

Well now that you have brought the possibilty up that brings the whole Synanon thing back into the picture again. It also IMO brings the little girl in the picture back to the forefront again. Sorry, but I was never convinced that the little girl was not Anna. Everyone else seemed to accept whoever it was that said that they knew who that little girls parents were. I didn't but since the majority did I just let it drop.


http://s13.photobucket.com/albums/a273/shadow205/th_AWaters2.jpghttp://s13.photobucket.com/albums/a273/shadow205/th_Croppedlittlegirl.jpghttp://s13.photobucket.com/albums/a273/shadow205/th_boxes.jpg

:truce:

You are right, it does raise that possibility again. With some of the suggestions that we have received, if nothing quickly comes up to help support it, we have let them drop by the wayside and moved on to other possibilities. This may have been a mistake.

I hope no one has been offended if a suggestion seems to get the "short shrift" - it is only that at certain points something comes up that is judged more promising at that time, only to be forgotten by the time we can get back to it. Everybody please understand: I value each suggestion and hope that each of you continue to add your ideas.

[InterestedNHelping]

I read on the Synanon site, in the guestbook, that someone was "dropped off" as a kid, not actually a member there...why did they take-in' kids that were "dropped off'? Just curious if a child could be 'left' there.

[Shadow205]

You are right, it does raise that possibility again. With some of the suggestions that we have received, if