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Dr. Doogie
03-09-2006, 04:13 PM
This thread will be for discussion concerning possible involvement by George Waters (Anna's birthfather) and his mentor George Brody. I will copy forward the relevant material from the previous thread and re-post it her in a condensed form.

Dr. Doogie
03-10-2006, 03:30 PM
On 11/16/2005, Dr. Doogie posted:

"Anna's birth father was named George Henry Waters. He married Michaele B. in 1964 in New York City while attending Columbia Medical School. The family moved to San Francisco for him to complete his residency where Anna was born September 25, 1967.



Around the time of Anna's birth, George Waters met an older man by the name of George Brody (probably an alias). Brody was a man in his sixties at that time who immediately started to manipulate Waters and his family into his small cult of personality. Marital strains caused by Brody's manipulation and increasingly paranoid behavior by Waters led to Anna's parents divorcing shortly after her birth.



Although Waters came from a well-to-do family and was a physician working at three different facilities, he moved into a seedy hotel in the Tenderloin district of San Francisco with Brody as his roommate. Brody, who appears to have never worked a day in his life, was completely supported financially by Waters. Waters appears to have not made any moves or decisions with the full approval of Brody. (It should be clarified that even though these were two adult men living in very close arrangements, there has never been any evidence or hint that their relationship was sexual. It appeared to be more a twisted version of guru and disciple.)



Brody showed an disturbing level of interest in Anna. He believed that Anna was the reincarnation of a woman that Brody had lived with for several decades (this despite the fact that Anna was born before the woman in question had died). At Brody's and Water's insistence, the mother agreed to let Anna's name be legally changed, adding the nonsense word "Eifee" as middle name. This was demanded by Brody so that Anna's name and his name would "numerologically" add up to the same number.


In the few years after Anna's birth, George's behavior became more irrational: demanding money from his family, complaints to Anna's mother concerning what was a small child support payment for Anna, crazy accusations toward any and all who used to be his friends. Waters was finally diagnosed as a paranoid-schizophrenic. His family decided against having him committed (even though he had shown himself to be a danger to himself and others) in an effort to let him maintain his doctor's license.

Water's devotion to Brody and Brody's unusual attention to Anna lead back to the sighting of "a young man and an old man" driving a white panel truck in the vicinity of Anna's disappearance. Waters was in his thirties while Brody was in his seventies. Interestingly, after Anna's disappearance, Waters never contacted the mother to see what had happened or to offer condolences. His only known reaction was to contact his attorney to see if he could discontinue his child support payments.

Attached is a picture of George Waters circa 1964:
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/drdoo...9&.dnm=43ea.jpg (http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/drdoogief/detail?.dir=aac9&.dnm=43ea.jpg)

Attached is a picture of George Brody from 1974:
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/drdoo...94f.jpg&.src=ph (http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/drdoogief/detail?.dir=aac9&.dnm=b94f.jpg&.src=ph)

Dr. Doogie
03-10-2006, 03:33 PM
On 11/18/05, Dr. Doogie posted:

It should be stated that both LE and a very respected private investigator who examined Waters and Brody concluded that they could find no direct evidence that they had anything to do with Anna's disappearance. However, absence of evidence is not the same as innocence. And both LE and the PI agreed that the two Georges were extremely odd and capable of doing crazy things.

Brody developed throat cancer and was treated by Waters (who was a physician). Brody died Christmas Eve 1981. His death certificate may have been the only official piece of paperwork that ever existed on Brody - it showed no known birth date, no known relatives and no social security number.

After the death of Brody, Waters went into a frenzy of activity. He started destroying any paperwork or personal information pertaining to himself, Brody or Anna. The few items that he did not destroy were items that were not readily accessible such as safe deposit boxes.

Approximately two weeks after the death of Brody, Waters killed himself by drinking posion while in his hotel room. His death certificate shows a date of January 7, 1982, but this is speculation by the SF Coroner because Waters' body was not discovered until approximately a week after his suicide.

Dr. Doogie
03-15-2006, 03:57 AM
I have come up with a couple of ideas to help find out who George Brody actually is. One is to contact the family members of the woman that he lived with before Waters. She had a very unique last name and there are some people with the same name living in the Bay area, so I assume that they are relatives of hers. My other thought is to try and find a woman that GW worked with named Seka that Brody attempted to woo into becoming a follower. I am going to start with Water's workplace and the doctors who I can identify from the "Box from Hell" that knew Waters. They may be able to give me a last name for this Seka. I will keep you all posted.

kyresearcher
03-17-2006, 11:51 PM
DrDoogie, if you are able to contact any of the dr's that GW worked with is there a possibility that you could see if they still have records of GW clients? I am thinking that maybe GB was a patient of his and if so that you might be able to get some info from his records. I know they are confidential but since he is deceased maybe they could/would give you a S.S# or the next of kin that he listed to contact in case of emergency. If they met at the clinic as dr/patient his paper work would already have been filled out and just maybe he gave a name, address or phone # of who to contact. Just an idea..........

kyresearcher
03-18-2006, 02:00 AM
I know all your sleuthers will think I have lost my mind, but something has just come to me. With GB obsession of names, and him probably having an alias, could we be searching all this wrong. What if he was born Brody George and wanted his and GW's first names to be the same so he just reversed it. Look how he insisted that GW and Anns's mom add Eefie to Anna's name so it would match his name numerically and would be the same as the lady he knew. I have even thought that maybe he came to this country as an imigrant. I have searched the list of imigrants who came to the US at Ellis Island, thinking maybe he is from another country. Annasmom we are still trying, I think of her all the time and hope we can help you in someway to find answers.

Annasmom
03-18-2006, 12:50 PM
I know all your sleuthers will think I have lost my mind, but something has just come to me. With GB obsession of names, and him probably having an alias, could we be searching all this wrong. What if he was born Brody George and wanted his and GW's first names to be the same so he just reversed it. Look how he insisted that GW and Anns's mom add Eefie to Anna's name so it would match his name numerically and would be the same as the lady he knew. I have even thought that maybe he came to this country as an imigrant. I have searched the list of imigrants who came to the US at Ellis Island, thinking maybe he is from another country. Annasmom we are still trying, I think of her all the time and hope we can help you in someway to find answers.Thank you, kyresearcher. I was wondering where everybody went. Brainstorming is always a good thing.

mjak
03-18-2006, 02:02 PM
Annasmom, I am still here. Not a day goes by that I do not think of Anna's
plight. I wish I had some brilliant ideas to contrubte to this thread but unforunitly I don't. I would like to hear from Anna's kindergarden teacher on why she believes Anna was kidnapped. Has she every disclosed her reasons to you? Also maybe you have mentioned this before but how did your husband meet George Brody?

mjak

Annasmom
03-18-2006, 02:51 PM
Annasmom, I am still here. Not a day goes by that I do not think of Anna's
plight. I wish I had some brilliant ideas to contrubte to this thread but unforunitly I don't. I would like to hear from Anna's kindergarden teacher on why she believes Anna was kidnapped. Has she every disclosed her reasons to you? Also maybe you have mentioned this before but how did your husband meet George Brody?

mjak
Thank you, Mjak. The woman Brody lived with was a patient of George Waters. Apparently it was after she died that the two Georges moved in together.

Dr. Doogie
03-18-2006, 04:17 PM
Here are some new photos of George Brody:

Younger Brody
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/drdoogief/detail?.dir=aac9&.dnm=94e8scd.jpg

Brody 1974
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/drdoogief/detail?.dir=aac9&.dnm=cec8scd.jpg&.src=ph

Here are the links to the previous pics of Brody:

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/drdoogief/detail?.dir=aac9&.dnm=b94f.jpg

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/drdoogief/detail?.dir=aac9&.dnm=a9dfscd.jpg

Here is the link to a previous pic of George Waters:

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/drdoogief/detail?.dir=aac9&.dnm=43ea.jpg

mjak
03-18-2006, 07:01 PM
I just did some snooping around in the cenus database and I found a George Brody listed as living in califronia in the 1920 census. He has his idenitfication listed as Lodger in the home. It says he was born in Massachusets and his father was born in Ireland. His employent is listed as clerk in a soda plant. He lists his age as 26, which I believe would make him 79 years old in 1973. Could this be our George Brody. Annasmom do you recall anything about him being of Irish? heritage?

mjak

kyresearcher
03-19-2006, 01:47 AM
DrDoogie, thanks for posting the photos, great work! On the "younger picture of GB" it shows a studio name, can you tell us what it says, I can't read it. Maybe that would give us an idea to what location he was in when it was taken. Thanks

mfmangel1
03-19-2006, 02:21 AM
It looks as though the portrait was done at the studio of
"Marguerite Kilroy" in San Francisco....from what I can tell.

I find his inscription odd....Then again, what about George wasn't?:(

mjak
03-19-2006, 03:01 PM
I just did some snooping around in the cenus database and I found a George Brody listed as living in califronia in the 1920 census. He has his idenitfication listed as Lodger in the home. It says he was born in Massachusets and his father was born in Ireland. His employent is listed as clerk in a soda plant. He lists his age as 26, which I believe would make him 79 years old in 1973. Could this be our George Brody. Annasmom do you recall anything about him being of Irish? heritage?

mjak

Unfortuitly, the census has only gotten as far as the 1930 census online.
so I can't follow this man's trail. The 1930 census does not show him but I believe it is still incomplete at this time. When I go to work tomorrow, I will call
my census reserch contacts and see if I can get the rest of the census accessed.

mjak

mjak
03-19-2006, 03:03 PM
It looks as though the portrait was done at the studio of
"Marguerite Kilroy" in San Francisco....from what I can tell.

I find his inscription odd....Then again, what about George wasn't?:(
Not such an odd inscription if he was a theatrical romantic and gave
this picture to a girlfriend.

mjak

Annasmom
03-19-2006, 07:22 PM
I just did some snooping around in the cenus database and I found a George Brody listed as living in califronia in the 1920 census. He has his idenitfication listed as Lodger in the home. It says he was born in Massachusets and his father was born in Ireland. His employent is listed as clerk in a soda plant. He lists his age as 26, which I believe would make him 79 years old in 1973. Could this be our George Brody. Annasmom do you recall anything about him being of Irish? heritage?

mjak
He was always totally secretive about his background, so he never mentioned being of Irish heritage, but it seems entirely possible. And the age seems about right, too. I wonder if there was really a soda plant in San Francisco in 1920.

Annasmom
03-19-2006, 07:32 PM
It looks as though the portrait was done at the studio of
"Marguerite Kilroy" in San Francisco....from what I can tell.

I find his inscription odd....Then again, what about George wasn't?:(
There was a photograph by this same photographer listed on e-bay with a date of December 1951. The matting seemed similar to this one of Brody. If he was living in San Francisco some 23 years before Anna disappeared in 1973, there absolutely has to be someone in the area who knows something about him.

mjak
03-19-2006, 09:07 PM
He was always totally secretive about his background, so he never mentioned being of Irish heritage, but it seems entirely possible. And the age seems about right, too. I wonder if there was really a soda plant in San Francisco in 1920.
According to the information I found "American Trona" was a company that
ran a soda ash plant in california in the early 20 th century. It was the only soda
ash plant in california. Maybe this is where he worked?

mjak

mjak
03-19-2006, 09:26 PM
Okay, I got some more information off the 1920 census. It is not so easy to read!!
Mr. George W. Brody was living in Cartago in the county of INYO ? in california. I am not familiar with the State of California so this does not mean anything to me. His father is listed as being in Missouri not massachustes and I originaly thought. Also everyone listed on this page of this census was employed in this Soda Plant.

mjak

Annasmom
03-19-2006, 11:08 PM
Okay, I got some more information off the 1920 census. It is not so easy to read!!
Mr. George W. Brody was living in Cartago in the county of INYO ? in california. I am not familiar with the State of California so this does not mean anything to me. His father is listed as being in Missouri not massachustes and I originaly thought. Also everyone listed on this page of this census was employed in this Soda Plant.

mjak Inyo County is pretty far away from San Francisco. There is a Searles Valley Historical Association which has information on American Trona (which produced potash and borax and is still operating after several name changes.) Somehow I would take Brody to be a city boy rather than a clerk in a Central Valley California chemical plant, but you never know. What amazes me is how many George Brodys have turned up. I would never take that to be a common name.

kyresearcher
03-19-2006, 11:27 PM
Inyo County is pretty far away from San Francisco. There is a Searles Valley Historical Association which has information on American Trona (which produced potash and borax and is still operating after several name changes.) Somehow I would take Brody to be a city boy rather than a clerk in a Central Valley California chemical plant, but you never know. What amazes me is how many George Brodys have turned up. I would never take that to be a common name. Annasmom, there are lots of George Brodys, some spelling their names differently. I also think of him as a city boy, not the kind who would want to get his suit dirty, bet he never worked a day in his life, just sponged off people. JMHO

kyresearcher
03-19-2006, 11:33 PM
I have found GW's physican/surgeons license and it lists his p.o. box 5889, San Francisco, Ca 94101 and his medical license #G13689. It may have been when he was married tho, and not when he and GB were living together. It says his status is Licensee deceased so it may have been when he and the other George was together. Don't know if DrDoogie has that info, just thought I would throw it in.

Dr. Doogie
03-20-2006, 11:25 AM
I have found GW's physican/surgeons license and it lists his p.o. box 5889, San Francisco, Ca 94101 and his medical license #G13689. It may have been when he was married tho, and not when he and GB were living together. It says his status is Licensee deceased so it may have been when he and the other George was together. Don't know if DrDoogie has that info, just thought I would throw it in.That P.O. Box number seems to be GW's primary source for receiving mail, though he did receive some mail through his places of employment. He seems to have had this P.O. Box from shortly after his separation from Annasmom in the late 1960's until his death in 1981.

Dr. Doogie
03-20-2006, 11:42 AM
Not such an odd inscription if he was a theatrical romantic and gave
this picture to a girlfriend.

mjak
Weirdly enough, the inscription seems to have been from Brody to Waters. The level of devotion that Waters showed for Brody was frightening. There was an exchange of letters between the two (before they resided together) where Waters asks Brody for permission to "emulate" him. Brody responded that he was pleased with the request and that Waters could now give Brody "gifts" as a sign of his devotion.

SherlockJr
03-20-2006, 12:15 PM
If Brody is found in 1920 Census being 26 years old. That would make his birth 1894. Has anyone been able to locate any death records? Is his SSN listed anywhere in the BFH?

Dr. Doogie
03-20-2006, 12:22 PM
If Brody is found in 1920 Census being 26 years old. That would make his birth 1894. Has anyone been able to locate any death records? Is his SSN listed anywhere in the BFH?
There is no SSN listed in any paperwork associated with GB. I have his death certificate and it lists SSN unknown.

SherlockJr
03-20-2006, 12:27 PM
I have found Anna Brody, was born 5/15/1894. Died on 4/14/73 social security number 562-20-3243 acquired in CA. How difficult would it be to give Anna a ssn belonging to George Brody? No questions asked especially if Dr. George Waters signed the records.



There is no SSN listed in any paperwork associated with GB. I have his death certificate and it lists SSN unknown.

mysteriew
03-20-2006, 07:58 PM
If Brody is found in 1920 Census being 26 years old. That would make his birth 1894. Has anyone been able to locate any death records? Is his SSN listed anywhere in the BFH?

I have found Anna Brody, was born 5/15/1894. Died on 4/14/73 social security number 562-20-3243 acquired in CA. How difficult would it be to give Anna a ssn belonging to George Brody? No questions asked especially if Dr. George Waters signed the records.

I will admit this is pretty out there. But could the reason that George B. cannot be found officially- be because he was born Anna B? Could he have been born a female, yet later begun living as a male? Could George B. have been a transexual? It was the 70's, a time of sexual freedom, gays were starting to come out of the closet, yet there were still a lot of negative attitudes. And transexuals were still not openly talked about in most circles.

One thing that has always bugged me, was the fact that the two George's cohabitated in a small rented room, not an apartment and not two separate rooms. Something they would not have had to do, as George W.'s income alone would have been sufficient to rent two of those rooms. There could have been a homosexual relationship between the two, but that hasn't become apparent as they were both flirting with waitresses.
Yet if the two of them knew the other was the opposite sex, that may have allowed them to bypass to themselves the whole two guys living together attitude.
As a doctor George W. could have become privy to George B.'s secret, been intrigued, then become interested in "George" as a person. That may have led to the whole protective attitude, and to the fact that he needed to support "him" both emotionally and financially.

Dr. Doogie
03-20-2006, 08:42 PM
I will admit this is pretty out there. But could the reason that George B. cannot be found officially- be because he was born Anna B? Could he have been born a female, yet later begun living as a male? Could George B. have been a transexual? It was the 70's, a time of sexual freedom, gays were starting to come out of the closet, yet there were still a lot of negative attitudes. And transexuals were still not openly talked about in most circles.

One thing that has always bugged me, was the fact that the two George's cohabitated in a small rented room, not an apartment and not two separate rooms. Something they would not have had to do, as George W.'s income alone would have been sufficient to rent two of those rooms. There could have been a homosexual relationship between the two, but that hasn't become apparent as they were both flirting with waitresses.
Yet if the two of them knew the other was the opposite sex, that may have allowed them to bypass to themselves the whole two guys living together attitude.
As a doctor George W. could have become privy to George B.'s secret, been intrigued, then become interested in "George" as a person. That may have led to the whole protective attitude, and to the fact that he needed to support "him" both emotionally and financially.
You had me thinking there for a bit, MV. The picture I just posted of a younger GB does have a more feminine look to it than his later pictures. But the more I thought about it, I would assume that as the doctors other than GW examined and treated GB for his cancer, at some point they would have done a "dingus count". Anything less than a quantity of one and they would have reflected that in their medical charts and listed GB as female for medical reasons. Since the paperwork does not reflect that, I think that he was (and always was) a male.

One clarification (and I believe that I may have started this confusion by not being thorough in my posts): GW and GB had two rooms in the same hotel. They appeared to have used both, though they seemed to always be together in one of the rooms. They also had a third room at a different hotel - unfortunately, this room was not discovered for a few years after Anna's disappearance. It would have been interesting to see what was happening in that room on January 16th, 1967.

mysteriew
03-20-2006, 09:05 PM
Like I said, it was pretty out there. But I am learning not to totally discount the "out there" thoughts, as people can be pretty bizarre.
But the point about the Doctors..... Doctors are bound by confidentiality and probably wouldn't have released that info unless under a suponea anyway. The fact that they worked with GW, might also have contributed to their holding the secret close. And since GW was the one to complete the paperwork at the time of death, they may have considered it just one of those secrets that was harmless and so even knowing, they may not have corrected it.

SherlockJr
03-21-2006, 12:13 AM
I shook my head while reading your post. I was not suggesting for a minute that GB was a woman. I could not find anything else on this Anna Brody. If someone has access to census records, please help me out. I posted the information fearing the two George's had done something to Anna in 1973 and used George's SSN on her death record. Which would explain his death record as an unknown ssn. Certainly they couldn't use the same number twice, that would raise suspicion. So what if GB will no long collect SS checks, he's got GW to support him now.




I will admit this is pretty out there. But could the reason that George B. cannot be found officially- be because he was born Anna B? Could he have been born a female, yet later begun living as a male? Could George B. have been a transexual? It was the 70's, a time of sexual freedom, gays were starting to come out of the closet, yet there were still a lot of negative attitudes. And transexuals were still not openly talked about in most circles.

One thing that has always bugged me, was the fact that the two George's cohabitated in a small rented room, not an apartment and not two separate rooms. Something they would not have had to do, as George W.'s income alone would have been sufficient to rent two of those rooms. There could have been a homosexual relationship between the two, but that hasn't become apparent as they were both flirting with waitresses.
Yet if the two of them knew the other was the opposite sex, that may have allowed them to bypass to themselves the whole two guys living together attitude.
As a doctor George W. could have become privy to George B.'s secret, been intrigued, then become interested in "George" as a person. That may have led to the whole protective attitude, and to the fact that he needed to support "him" both emotionally and financially.

Dr. Doogie
03-21-2006, 01:01 AM
If the two Georges did something awful to Anna (which I do not believe), I do not think that there would have been any sort of paper trail requiring a SSN. That being said, neither of the two suggestions (that they used GBs SSN or that GB could have been a transexual) is that crazy. Believe me, there is weirder stuff than that in the Box from Hell.

The level of manipulation that Brody held over GW was truly frightening. Waters systematically drove away every friend and family member (including Annasmom) by writing letters to them that were obviously either dictated or influenced by Brody - the same idiosyncracies in speech, theme, etc. Brody wanted Waters for himself and himself alone. That alone shows a reasonable possible motive for their involvement in Anna's disappearance.

kyresearcher
03-21-2006, 01:02 AM
Here I go "brainstorming" again. I do not know how to cut and paste but I went to www.ssdi.rootsweb.com (http://www.ssdi.rootsweb.com) and checked on social security deaths. I am thinking George may be GB first name so I only enter first name (george) San Francisco-Ca. and death month (12) and year (1981) I find 9 deaths listed for George with the info I stated. All of them had a different last name. I then went into Ca. death records and ran all of them. I found all but 1 listed in the records. There are 2 George Thompson, but the first one on list with B/D 9-09-1900 and DOD 12-1981 would not come up on Ca. death records. My thinking is-----GB died and his death certificate listed what he wanted GW to list but then after his death GW made up an another death certificate for the Social Security administration with the correct info. on it and sent it to them. This list has the social security numbers listed on them. I know all you good researchers can find out about this George Thompson. The only other one that was close in day of 12-24-81 is George Prouty. Would someone else check this out and see what you think? Do we know for sure that GB died on the 24th of Dec?

Dr. Doogie
03-21-2006, 01:08 AM
But the point about the Doctors..... Doctors are bound by confidentiality and probably wouldn't have released that info unless under a suponea anyway. The fact that they worked with GW, might also have contributed to their holding the secret close. And since GW was the one to complete the paperwork at the time of death, they may have considered it just one of those secrets that was harmless and so even knowing, they may not have corrected it.Waters' relationship with his co-workers was strained at best. Brody received treatment at the clinic that Waters worked at. GW's mental condition had deteriated at this point to random shouting matches with his peers, reprimands from his superiors for questionable medical treatments and poor work ethics. Shortly before both Brody and Waters died, Waters was fired from the clinic. I suspect (be cannot say for sure) that the fellow doctor's at the clinic would not have covered for such a secret. I do plan on contacting any surviving co-workers of Waters and see if they can shed any light on Brody and the last days of Waters.

kyresearcher
03-21-2006, 01:33 AM
Adding to my post #33- I was searching for the George Thompson again in Ca. death records and did find him, his birth date is different on the social security site that I found . This man died 12-11-81, and the social security #'s match so guess this isn't any help, but someone might want to still look at the info I found, who knows it might shed some light on who GB really is. I am trying so hard to help Annasmom, as all of you are.

mjak
03-21-2006, 02:15 AM
Is it possible the two George's were using drugs?

mjak

spikydragon
03-21-2006, 02:58 AM
The only other one that was close in day of 12-24-81 is George Prouty.

I'm sure it's just coincidence, but Prouty looks/sounds an awful lot like Brody...

Dr. Doogie
03-21-2006, 01:17 PM
I have located George Waters' former supervisor at the clinic that he worked from 1970 until Feb. 1981. I will try and make contact with him today. I hope to accomplish two things: 1) see if he knows of any thing that he may have seen that would bolster the hypothesis that the GW was involved in Anna's disappearance, and 2) see if I can get a last name for "Seka", a co-worker of GW's that Brody attempted to draw under his influence. I would like to contact Seka and see what she knows about Brody.

I will post what I find...

shadowangel
03-21-2006, 01:26 PM
*OFF-TOPIC*
Dr Doogie-Your mailbox is full.

Dr. Doogie
03-21-2006, 01:27 PM
Is it possible the two George's were using drugs?

mjak
I guess it is possible, but I am not aware of any evidence to that effect. Waters was diagnosed as a paranoid-schizophrenic, but I have not even come across any receipts or prescriptions to indicate that he was taking any medications to control his disease. Waters was active in the anti-war effort in the late 1960's and drugs were certainly available in the circles that he ran, but there is no evidence that I am aware of that he ever used them. Annasmom could probably give a definitive answer to this for the time period that they were married.

HeartofTexas
03-21-2006, 10:28 PM
I am in NO WAY insinuating that George Waters ever did drugs but I worked as a volunteer with schizophrenic patients for 3 years in the 90's... and many of the doctors I talked with felt that schizophrenia was oftentimes triggered by drug use. IOW, the gene will often lay dormant if drugs are not used. I remember once there were identical twins ... one was schizophrenic and the other one wasn't, but just basically took care of his brother. The doctor explained to me that that both probably carried the gene that carried the schizophrenic trait but only one of the brothers had done drugs, which activated it. I haven't done any real research on schizophrenia so don't know that the above are facts... but it could allude to Dr. Waters having done drugs in college, or around that time. Again, I am NOT the last word on schizophrenia.

azure
03-21-2006, 10:37 PM
If the two Georges did something awful to Anna (which I do not believe)...

Dr. Doogie, does this mean that you don't believe that the two Georges were involved in Anna's disappearance at all? Or simply that you don't think that they would have killed her?

Also, I know you're incredibly busy, but is there anything interesting in the BFH that we don't know about? Also, any updates on the co-worker front?

It seems from the portrait photo that we can presume that GB was in the San Francisco area since at least 1950(?). I'm in favor of contacting the portrait studio, which, in the unlikely case they still had records that old, could tell us at the very least if GB was still GB that long ago. Other than that, what other sleuthing can we do, Websleuthers, given that we have a location for him for a substantial chunk of time?

Kelly

Dr. Doogie
03-21-2006, 11:32 PM
Dr. Doogie, does this mean that you don't believe that the two Georges were involved in Anna's disappearance at all? Or simply that you don't think that they would have killed her?
I do not believe that they killed her. In discussions with Annasmom, she emphasised that the two Georges always felt that they were doing good in the world. She does not feel that they would have meant "harm" to Anna - they are more likely to have convinced themselves that Anna was in some sort of danger and would be better off not with Annasmom. Remember, the disappearance came within a couple of months of GW being informed that Annasmom had married Joe Ford and that GW could discontinue his alimony payments. This may very well have set into nmotion a plot to "save" Anna from Annasmom (who GW had convinced himself was "evil") and this new husband that he had probably concocted some sort of evilness on his part also.

Also, I know you're incredibly busy, but is there anything interesting in the BFH that we don't know about? Also, any updates on the co-worker front?
I am having to digest the contents of the Box from Hell in small bites. It is the documentation of a descent into insanity for a man who could have been valuable to the world. Trying to absorb it all at once will make my head spin. Also, analysing the contents thoroughly takes time - I want to make sure that I am not overlooking any clues that are not obvious.

I did talk to the clinic where GW's former supervisor worked and got an email address to send my questions to her. I sent the email this afternoon, but it came back as undeliverable. I will recontact the clinic and get the correct address, and then resend it tomorrow.


It seems from the portrait photo that we can presume that GB was in the San Francisco area since at least 1950(?). I'm in favor of contacting the portrait studio, which, in the unlikely case they still had records that old, could tell us at the very least if GB was still GB that long ago. Other than that, what other sleuthing can we do, Websleuthers, given that we have a location for him for a substantial chunk of time?
I think that you are correct. We had previously been able to trace him back as far as the early 1960's, but it looks like he was around earlier than that. Any research ideas from the WSers out there would be appreciated. As far as contacting the studio, if it is still in business, I doubt that they would have records back 50 years of individual transactions (remember, Bank of America didn't even maintain safe deposit box records back to the 1970's). It is a good idea and may be worth a try, but I am not optimistic.

Annasmom
03-22-2006, 12:01 PM
Is it possible the two George's were using drugs?

mjakIf you are thinking this might be where all the money went, I can tell you I'm certain it didn't go to drugs. In fact, considering that GW's jobs were part-time, all those insurance policies, rent on three hotel rooms, paying off student loans, and GB's department store bills probably ate up a lot of it. I can tell you that GW took LSD on one occasion when it was not yet illegal. He had several patients who had taken it many times, and he was curious about it. Another doctor was standing by at the time. As for Brody, I'd be very surprised
if he ever even took aspirin, though he did have a taste for expensive brandy. As for triggering a latent schizophrenic tendency, certainly it's possible, but there's also the fact that GW was severely malnourished in childhood while in a concentration camp in the Philippines.

Shadow205
03-22-2006, 03:13 PM
The only thing that I found when looking for the photographer was an old picture for sale on ebay by the same studio.

Dr. Doogie
03-22-2006, 06:49 PM
I heard back from GW's supervisor and she stated that she new nothing about his personal life. He worked a night shift when there were no supervisors around and only one other doctor on duty. She also did not recall Brody being a patient or a Seka working for the clinic. Seka must have been a co-worker at one of the other jobs that GW had.

So, no new info from this line of investigation. On to the next one...

azure
03-22-2006, 07:45 PM
I heard back from GW's supervisor and she stated that she new nothing about his personal life. He worked a night shift when there were no supervisors around and only one other doctor on duty. She also did not recall Brody being a patient or a Seka working for the clinic. Seka must have been a co-worker at one of the other jobs that GW had.

So, no new info from this line of investigation. On to the next one...

Somehow this doesn't surprise me. If GW was so secretive and erratic with his behavior with Annasmom and in public with only complete strangers around, it seems unlikely that he'd tell his co-workers very much about his life.

Seka seems to be the one to find, as well as any family members or close friends of GB's deceased girlfriend. These people may hold some clues about the Georges' lifestyles that could help Anna's case.

Kelly

laini
03-26-2006, 03:23 PM
Dr. Doogie,

This may have already been discussed. I ran across an internet discussion that mentioned Brody and GW on zodiackiller.com message board. (I was looking up "eifee" and it came up). I saw your name mentioned there, also. Do you think there was any connection between Brody and those crimes? Just curious.

Dr. Doogie
03-26-2006, 04:40 PM
Dr. Doogie,

This may have already been discussed. I ran across an internet discussion that mentioned Brody and GW on zodiackiller.com message board. (I was looking up "eifee" and it came up). I saw your name mentioned there, also. Do you think there was any connection between Brody and those crimes? Just curious.
The info on Zodiackiller.com was copied from this forum and reposted there. A man by the name of George Waters was a bartender who knew and alledgedly "stalked" Darlene Ferrin, one of the Zodiac victims. It was suspected that he could have been the Zodiac. Our George Waters is a completely different GW. Once I heard about that post, I posted a correction and that was the end of that line of investigation.

smile22
03-26-2006, 10:09 PM
do u think seka could have been like a fake name or a nickname?

Dr. Doogie
03-27-2006, 11:20 AM
do u think seka could have been like a fake name or a nickname?
It's possible, but it is what her parents called her - based on correspondence between Brody and her parents.

gardenmom
03-27-2006, 01:32 PM
There is a Seka living in Sacramento that would be about 76 years old, could this be her? I just went to ancestry.com and typed in the first name only and CA.

Dr. Doogie
03-27-2006, 02:29 PM
There is a Seka living in Sacramento that would be about 76 years old, could this be her? I just went to ancestry.com and typed in the first name only and CA.
Without anything to go on but my gut, I imagine Seka to be younger than that. I believe she was probably either an office worker or nurses aide in her twenties during the 1970's, which would make her in her fifties now. All of this could be completely wrong speculation on my part and this woman is worthy of a better look.

I work in Sacramento and can follow up on this. Gardenmom, please PM me the details and I will look into this. Thanks for your efforts!

Dr. Doogie
03-27-2006, 02:31 PM
By the way, if anyone does a Google search for "Seka", be forwarned that there also was a porno actress in the 1970's-1980's by that same name. That is why you will get millions of hits! (And some very interesting photos...)

annemc2
03-27-2006, 10:22 PM
uh, yeah, Doogie - I figured that out reeeeal quick! :blushing:

mfmangel1
03-27-2006, 11:25 PM
It's possible, but it is what her parents called her - based on correspondence between Brody and her parents.
Is there any info that would enable us to locate her parents?

mfmangel1
03-27-2006, 11:48 PM
Dr. Doogie-

Does the BFH shed any light on any other members of Brody's "cult"?

Since Brody and Waters believed that Annasmom and Joe Ford were a detriment to Anna (it makes me ill to write that!), my instinct, for what it is worth, tells me that they would have placed Anna somewhere that they could have maintained contact
with her new "family" and they would not have done her harm.

Who else did Brody control at some point in time?

Dr. Doogie
03-28-2006, 07:07 PM
Who else did Brody control? That is the $64,000 question. Perhaps nobody, but it does appear that he attempted to expand his influence beyond just GW by wooing this Seka. I have not been able to establish that she considered the two Georges as anything other than friends or acquaintences...yet.

One point of clarification: I have used the word "cult" to describe Brody and his influence. This is not exactly the right word because it implies that there was some sort of organized group. I meant "cult" to demonstrate the type of mind-control that Brody seemed to use to manipulate Waters. Perhaps the correct analogy is "Rasputin-like". Brody created a scenario where Waters did not do or think anything without seeking the guidance and approval of Brody - much like the Czar of Russia's family did with Rasputin. And like Rasputin, Brody used that influence to his own advantage.

Dr. Doogie
03-28-2006, 07:19 PM
Is there any info that would enable us to locate her parents?
Without a last name, no. I know that they resided in Belgrade, Yugoslavia in the 1970's when she visited them and sent a postcard to the Georges. A Zabasearch for Seka's in the U.S. turns up almost exclusively names that seem to be Croation / Serbian / Bosnian (all the former Yugoslavia).

The Seka who lives in Sacramento (age 71) was married (recently widowed) and had a son in the 1970's, so it is unlikely that she could be the Seka that we are searching for - the nature of the communications between her and the Georges makes me believe that she was relatively young and not married.

mfmangel1
03-29-2006, 03:53 PM
Sorry....I didn't mean to imply the situation was a cult at we know it. That is why I used quotation marks.


This case just has me doing this every day::banghead:

I can't imagine how Annasmom, her family and you must feel at this point. My heart just breaks for everyone. :(

mfmangel1
03-29-2006, 04:11 PM
It is my understanding that Brody and Waters met while Waters was treating the woman that Brody was living with at the time.

I have to wonder what the weakness was that Brody saw in Waters that he felt he would be able to manipulate. Most people would view a doctor as being above them, especially back in the 1960's. Most people would not view a doctor as a potential mark or victim, especially when the doctor is treating someone they are involved with.

I am in no way saying that victims are at fault when they are used, but usually the con preys on certain weaknesses and vulnerabilities that they observe in the potential mark.

Conmen make me ill! :mad:

Annasmom
03-29-2006, 05:07 PM
It is my understanding that Brody and Waters met while Waters was treating the woman that Brody was living with at the time.

I have to wonder what the weakness was that Brody saw in Waters that he felt he would be able to manipulate. Most people would view a doctor as being above them, especially back in the 1960's. Most people would not view a doctor as a potential mark or victim, especially when the doctor is treating someone they are involved with.

I am in no way saying that victims are at fault when they are used, but usually the con preys on certain weaknesses and vulnerabilities that they observe in the potential mark.

Conmen make me ill! :mad:
Mfmangel1: I think George Brody himself believed all the stuff he was trying to sell Dr. Waters. He really thought he was some kind of messiah, and I think he instantly recognized someone who desperately wanted to believe in such a thing and to be told what to do. Now, don't beat your head against the wall, angel1. We're all fine out here, and still looking!

Dr. Doogie
04-08-2006, 04:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyresearcher
DrDoogie, the name Seka that you were referring to, did you see it spelled out or did someone just say the name to you and that is the way the spelling sounded to you? This inquiry has something to do with the name I sent you on the unclaimed money for Anna.

I have several letters between Seka and the two Georges where she signs her name as Seka. There also is a letter written by Brody to Seka's family where he refers to her as Seka, so that seems to be her proper name.

(As I write this, it dawns on me that Brody may have addressed the letter to "Mr. & Mrs. ________". Heck, I may know the last name. Let me check right now...)

Dr. Doogie
04-08-2006, 04:14 PM
No luck - Brody addressed the letters to her family as "Dear Friends". No address other than references to "Beograd".

I rereading the correspondence, it appears that Seka first arrived in San Francisco from Yugoslavia in 1976. Brody refers to her also by a nickname of "Little Tito". Shortly after her arrival, it appears that she began to drift away from Brody's influence, causing him to warn her about the emotional damage that would occur to her if he were to break ties with her (the ego of this man was stunning).

Dr. Doogie
04-08-2006, 04:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Doogie
As I continue to review the contents of the Box From Hell, I have come across a letter where GW was attempting to be hired at a clinic for alcohol treatment. I will review which clinic it was and see if there are any Synanon connections.

He was lobbying a Dr. Richard Shore with the Bureau of Alcoholism, 101 Grove Street, SF, CA. It appears that this is a city agency, not a private organization that may have ties to Synanon. The letter is dated August 6, 1970.

Dr. Doogie
04-08-2006, 04:17 PM
I have found an interesting handwritten note in the Box From Hell. Some words are undeciperable, but here it is in its entirity:

Plan

1. Contact (undecipherable, looks like "mome") (a p with a line above it) Final arrangements (a c with a line above it) L's have been made. Jan 1973

2. Apply for $100.000 (a c with a line above it) A.C.E. as B (scribbled out word)

3. 3 months later negotiate increase to 5. (undecipherable, looks like "slils") ACE

4. 3 mos later change B.

What is interesting is that this note outlines a plan where the "final arrangements" conclude with something happening in January 1973, the month and year that Anna disappeared. This plan also includes applying for a sum of money (either $100.00 with one too many zeros behind the decimal or $100,000 with a period instead of a comma in the number). It appears the plan was to apply as Brody, then change the name on the loan three months later (which does not make a lot of sense, but that was apparently the plan).

The symbols used in the note appear to be shorthand. Is anyone out there familar with these symbols?

Dr. Doogie
04-08-2006, 04:32 PM
Also from the Box From Hell: I found a small section torn out what appears to be the SF Chronicle from the day before the presidential election in 1972 (early November). Evidently, what was of interest to whoever saved this scrap was either an obituary on one side for "Paul Jerome Farrell", Hattie Maude Gauthier", Jim Rock", "Frederick Smith" or Violet F. Snyder", or on the other side of the sheet, it lists an ad for Gus Hall, the Communist Party candidate for President and a few listings of political events such as fund-raisers for the McGovern /Shriver campaign and The Committee for the Re-Election of the President, and a "victory celebration" for the Socialist Workers Party. I know that GW held strong pacifist beliefs and had protested the war in Viet Nam.

Annasmom, do you know if he was a member or active in any political organiztions that might be related to the above information?

SherlockJr
04-08-2006, 04:32 PM
[QUOTE=Dr. Doogie]I have found an interesting handwritten note in the Box From Hell. Some words are undeciperable, but here it is in its entirity:

Plan

1. Contact (undecipherable, looks like "mome") (a p with a line above it) Final arrangements (a c with a line above it) L's have been made. Jan 1973

2. Apply for $100.000 (a c with a line above it) A.C.E. as B (scribbled out word)

3. 3 months later negotiate increase to 5. (undecipherable, looks like "slils") ACE

4. 3 mos later change B.




Oh Doogie, anyway to scan this? Could ACE be Anna Christian Eiffee?

Dr. Doogie
04-08-2006, 04:35 PM
Oh Doogie, anyway to scan this? Could ACE be Anna Christian Eiffee?
HOLY COW!!!! That did not dawn on me!!! Great work, SherlockJr.

Yes, I will scan it in and post it pronto.

Dr. Doogie
04-08-2006, 04:56 PM
Here is the link for the scan of the note:

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/drdoogief/detail?.dir=aac9&.dnm=d160.jpg&.src=ph

SherlockJr
04-08-2006, 05:12 PM
I feel this note really has to do with Anna. Almost like they applied for an insurance policy on her. The c with a line over it looks like a medical term or abbreviation.

Dr. Doogie
04-08-2006, 05:15 PM
This is getting very wierd. I recently found and have been communicating with an old friend who currently is working out of her home doing... medical transcriptions for doctors! I will contact her and see if she recognizes them.

PonderingThings
04-08-2006, 05:31 PM
Sherlockjr that is great work! Even the scratched out word looks like "beneficiary"

Dr. Doogie
04-08-2006, 05:33 PM
I have sent off an email to the transcriber friend and await her response.

Early on in investigating the disappearance of Anna, I recognized that her disappearance was a manifestation of evil, and as such, this search is a spiritual battle as much as it is a technical investigation. As I have continued through the peaks and valleys, I have seen evidence of divine providence throughout our search. For example: the friend that I am speaking of had been out of communication for almost thirty years, yet I found her about a month ago via the internet. I can now see that God has brought her back into my life for just this purpose - to answer this question. As it has been said, God works in mysterious ways - and He is very good at His job! Let me take this time to offer up praise to Him. :clap:

Okay, sermon over.

MagicRose99
04-08-2006, 05:37 PM
Just another thought... your "MOME" looks like "Mont" to me... maybe as in Montana? (Just an idea)

Also, your "slili" may be the word "still"?

SherlockJr
04-08-2006, 05:44 PM
Or Montreal???

Dr. Doogie
04-08-2006, 05:44 PM
Sherlockjr that is great work! Even the scratched out word looks like "beneficiary"
I think you are right! Plugging that in to the note, it appears that they were applying for $100,000 insurance with Anna as beneficiary, raising it to $500,000, then changing it over to Brody as the beneficiary.

This does not mean that they took her (this by defenition had to have occured prior to January 1973), but it does look very suspicious!

Dr. Doogie
04-08-2006, 05:49 PM
Just another thought... your "MOME" looks like "Mont" to me... maybe as in Montana? (Just an idea)

Also, your "slili" may be the word "still"?
Damn, you guys are good! "...still (with) ACE" makes perfect sense in the context of Anna as the beneficiary.

"Mont" may also be what it says. If it is Montreal, that reminds me of the discussion from a few months ago concerning the Kaballarians out of Canada. I will go back and review the sticky and see if they were located in Montreal! This is exciting!

PonderingThings
04-08-2006, 05:57 PM
Mmmm if that is truly the meaning of the note, then Waters was trying to figure out a way to get even more insurance policies. It would not be suspect to have your daughter as the beneficiary - most family men could explain this to an agent pretty easily. However, if you started to take out a whole bunch of insurance policies and all had the same beneficiary some companies wouldn't touch you.

So... take out multiple insurance policies. Have various beneficiaries, and then later change the beneficiary without raising alarm bells - its a loophole to get Brody more insurance....

I'm at a loss how it explains anything about Anna's disappearance though... although the January 1973 is creepy... it may just be coincidence....

Dr. Doogie
04-08-2006, 06:06 PM
Mmmm if that is truly the meaning of the note, then Waters was trying to figure out a way to get even more insurance policies. It would not be suspect to have your daughter as the beneficiary - most family men could explain this to an agent pretty easily. However, if you started to take out a whole bunch of insurance policies and all had the same beneficiary some companies wouldn't touch you.

So... take out multiple insurance policies. Have various beneficiaries, and then later change the beneficiary without raising alarm bells - its a loophole to get Brody more insurance....

I'm at a loss how it explains anything about Anna's disappearance though... although the January 1973 is creepy... it may just be coincidence....
I agree, except that if Anna were to disappear, then no one would question why the beneficiary was changed. This could have been just a part of the whole master plan in the sense that they knew that Anna was going to disappear and created a scenario where they could use it to their advantage.

PonderingThings
04-08-2006, 06:08 PM
Ahhh ok! I'm on board now!

Dr. Doogie
04-08-2006, 06:09 PM
I cannot find the pages where Kaballanarism is discussed. If any one has the time and patience to review the sticky, could they post what page it started on. Thanks!

petra
04-08-2006, 06:16 PM
ok, think i got it. in europe we use a period instead of comma in money. latin term c with line for cum or with. p with line is latin for per or about.

1.Contact ??(monday)(monte) per Final arrangements with L's (lawyers)have been made(jan 1973)
2. Apply for $100,000 with Anna Christian Efffie as Benificary.
3.3 months later negotiate increase to $500,000 still with ACE as benificiary.
4. 3 months later change beneficiary.

_ under letter means capital

**********************
what if number 1-had to do with arranged kidnapping and not insurance policy?
L's being possible last name of kidnappers?

PonderingThings
04-08-2006, 06:18 PM
KT Can posted on page 11 of the original thread about the Kaballians. The "weirdo" sect is primairly a Western Canada group.

There is another group, which is an "offshoot" of Jewish religion and it has ties to Montreal - but they are not the same as the group KT Can was talking about.

Hello to all. As you can see I am a long-long time lurker but not a big poster. I have however always been interested in Anna's case and I've been very excited by the recent activity on this thread.

PonderingThings previously posted about Anna's name being a "mirror image" name and that got me to thinking about the name Eifee. I truly believe that this name change is a very significant piece of the puzzle. I did some research on Eifee and ending up finding the mirror image name "Eefie" on a website for the Kabalarians. Kabalarianism is a religous sect founded in Vancouver in the 1930's. A central tenet of Kabalarian Philosophy is numerology, the belief in the mystical powers of numbers. Many Kabalarians change their names hoping to secure the benefits that names with greater numerological significance will supposedly confer upon them.

Anna's father and George Brody used numerology as the reason for wanting to add the name Eifee to Anna's. Maybe George at one time was a follower of this group or maybe George hails from Canada. This could explain his being untraceable in the United Sates. The Kabalarians are a shady group who's former leader was involved in sexual abuse scandals (I'm sorry to say) and they were known to have a location in California.

http://www.kabalarians.com/cfm/DisplayNameAnalysis.cfm

http://www.bcskeptics.info/calendar/1996.03.22.html

PonderingThings
04-08-2006, 06:56 PM
ok, think i got it. in europe we use a period instead of comma . latin term c with line for cum or with. p with line is latin for per or about.

1.Contact ??(monday) per Final arrangements with lawyers have been made (Jan 1973)
2. Apply for 100,00 with Anna Christian Efffie as Benificary.
3.3 months later negotiate increase to $500,000 still with ACE as benificiary.
4. 3 months later change beneficiary.

_ under letter means capital
Petra I think you cracked it! In your above quoted words I added the 1973 date to 1.

So... what final arrangements were made with the lawyers???? Was Anna's "adoption" set for January 1973?

Dr. Doogie is there any reference to who Water's lawyers were in the box from hell??????

petra
04-08-2006, 06:58 PM
hi PT--went back and edited my post a bit...see what you think?

SherlockJr
04-08-2006, 08:04 PM
A family member who is in the medical field believes the "c" with line over it is an abbreviation for "with" , and the "p" with line over it is short for "about".

Annasmom
04-08-2006, 08:35 PM
Also from the Box From Hell: I found a small section torn out what appears to be the SF Chronicle from the day before the presidential election in 1972 (early November). Evidently, what was of interest to whoever saved this scrap was either an obituary on one side for "Paul Jerome Farrell", Hattie Maude Gauthier", Jim Rock", "Frederick Smith" or Violet F. Snyder", or on the other side of the sheet, it lists an ad for Gus Hall, the Communist Party candidate for President and a few listings of political events such as fund-raisers for the McGovern /Shriver campaign and The Committee for the Re-Election of the President, and a "victory celebration" for the Socialist Workers Party. I know that GW held strong pacifist beliefs and had protested the war in Viet Nam.

Annasmom, do you know if he was a member or active in any political organiztions that might be related to the above information?
Gosh, Doogie, I leave the house for one afternoon and all sorts of things happen! George's sister is president of the Socialist Workers' Party (Trotskyists). I don't know that he was in touch with her, and I suspect that this newspaper clipping was just a way of noticing that she might be in town and might try to contact him. I don't think that she was in any way involved with Anna's disappearance, and I don't think she knew what kind of trouble George was in.

Regarding the note: My God! You've just about got it figured out without my input. The p means "regarding" and the c with a line means "with", as several others have already told you. When you post the scanned copy, maybe I will be able to make out some of the other words. I can't believe he left this note among the papers after destroying so many others.

petra
04-08-2006, 08:53 PM
Gosh, Doogie, I leave the house for one afternoon and all sorts of things happen! George's sister is president of the Socialist Workers' Party (Trotskyists). I don't know that he was in touch with her, and I suspect that this newspaper clipping was just a way of noticing that she might be in town and might try to contact him. I don't think that she was in any way involved with Anna's disappearance, and I don't think she knew what kind of trouble George was in.

Regarding the note: My God! You've just about got it figured out without my input. The p means "regarding" and the c with a line means "with", as several others have already told you. When you post the scanned copy, maybe I will be able to make out some of the other words. I can't believe he left this note among the papers after destroying so many others.
hi annasmom--see post 70-doggie scanned it in--

petra
04-08-2006, 08:56 PM
A family member who is in the medical field believes the "c" with line over it is an abbreviation for "with" , and the "p" with line over it is short for "about".
yes, agreed..latin
sherlock--you have been doing some great sleuthing!! i am so impressed.:)

have been reading but had no internet cconnection for a month. if you can check my posts above....interested to see what you think

PonderingThings
04-08-2006, 09:05 PM
Petra even clearer - great work!

So... any idea who "L" is? A family member?

Dr. Doogie
04-08-2006, 09:24 PM
I think that we have cracked it - except for the most important part of it: who are the"L's"? It may be "lawyers" or it could be the initials of someone else involved in this scheme (the couple in the car?).

The two Georges had numerous accidental death policies on Waters with Brody as the beneficiary - why was this one so special that it would require a "plan". And what "final arrangements" needed to be made if this is just them buying yet another policy. No, the insurance policies are are subsequent steps in this plan which starts with something that was to occur in January 1973.

I have always thought that GW and GB were the most likely suspects in Anna's disappearance, but let me say something that I have been reluctant to say up to this point: THE S.O.B.'s DID IT!!!!! I believe that this note can only be explained by viewing it through the lens of Anna's disappearance, and it was written prior to her disappearance (which means they knew before hand).

petra
04-08-2006, 09:37 PM
Doogie, you are amazing.:dance: I have been reading this all along with no way to post--frustrating.

I think you are right on with this assesment. Question about the name Christian-is it a family name, maiden name, religion, named after someone--usually a boy's name here in norway. that is why i was wondering where it came from.

The BFH is providing some interesting tidbits--curious as to what annasmom has to say about the actual note.

Keep up the great work doogie and other sleuths--great to be back posting.

MagicRose99
04-08-2006, 09:41 PM
I have to agree Doogie! You are amazing!

I hate to say it... but if those 2 were involved with taking her... God help us all.

SherlockJr
04-08-2006, 09:44 PM
oh, gee, somewhere in all these posts, doogie or annasmom has listed things that anna would have remembered. I can't find this post. I am e-mailing a woman in california who says there were no adoption record on her and I would like to include some things in the e-mail to jog her memory. Help me out!

petra
04-08-2006, 09:50 PM
oh, gee, somewhere in all these posts, doogie or annasmom has listed things that anna would have remembered. I can't find this post. I am e-mailing a woman in california who says there were no adoption record on her and I would like to include some things in the e-mail to jog her memory. Help me out!
hi super sherlock--try around post 405-pg 16 of locked thread

petra
04-08-2006, 09:53 PM
hi super sherlock--try around post 405-pg 16 of locked thread
no , post412, pg 17:rolleyes:

SherlockJr
04-08-2006, 09:54 PM
thanks petra!

petra
04-08-2006, 09:55 PM
thanks petra!
you are welcome, sherlock.

good luck with e-mail.

Annasmom
04-08-2006, 10:56 PM
Here is the link for the scan of the note:

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/drdoogief/detail?.dir=aac9&.dnm=d160.jpg&.src=ph
Doogie, the note is definitely GW's handwriting. Here's what I think it says:
1. Contact MONY (possibly Mutual of New York) regarding Final arrangements with L's have been made. (Jan. 1973)
2. Apply for $100,000 with ACE as Beneficiary (in Greek numerals, they use a period instead of a comma to mark off thousands; GW usually did it this way.)
3. 3 months later negotiate increase to 5. Still with ACE
4. 3 mos later change B.

Annasmom
04-08-2006, 10:58 PM
Doogie, you are amazing.:dance: I have been reading this all along with no way to post--frustrating.

I think you are right on with this assesment. Question about the name Christian-is it a family name, maiden name, religion, named after someone--usually a boy's name here in norway. that is why i was wondering where it came from.

The BFH is providing some interesting tidbits--curious as to what annasmom has to say about the actual note.

Keep up the great work doogie and other sleuths--great to be back posting. Petra, "Anna" is my sister and also Anna's grandmother; "Christian" just because I liked it and liked the connotations.

SherlockJr
04-09-2006, 12:04 AM
MONY has merged with AXA Financial Protection now.

itsreenw
04-09-2006, 12:51 AM
"L's have been made"

At my job (DMV) L's is short for (driver) licenses. Could have been fake drivers licenses they would need to present to the insurance company before the policy was finalized.

itsreenw
04-09-2006, 01:07 AM
Whoooa!! If there was an insurance policy and Anna was the original beneficiary, then the beneficiary was being changed to Brody, who was the party they insured?? This doesn't make sense. Anna wasn't the person that was insured so why would they abduct her (I believe 1 million percent they did). I just don't understand what the whole plan was. I doubt GW was the imsured. Suicide cancels most policies, he wasn't sick and GB needed GW around him to do everything for him.

Hmmm, How did the lady die that GB said Anna was the reincarnation of (before the woman was even dead)???

itsreenw
04-09-2006, 01:20 AM
MONT- Montesano, WA

http://www.worldlicenceplates.com/jpglps/USA_WA_GI6_1960's.jpg

Annasbro, do any of these look familiar?

PonderingThings
04-09-2006, 04:54 AM
I am no expert on life insurance but it is possible to get an insurance policy and then use it as collateral for a loan. So perhaps that's why it was done?

As for the suicide... Brody wasn't sick, and hadn't died then so suicide wasn't the plan. It only became the plan after Brody died.

mysteriew
04-09-2006, 05:58 AM
I have found an interesting handwritten note in the Box From Hell. Some words are undeciperable, but here it is in its entirity:

Plan

1. Contact (undecipherable, looks like "mome") (a p with a line above it) Final arrangements (a c with a line above it) L's have been made. Jan 1973

2. Apply for $100.000 (a c with a line above it) A.C.E. as B (scribbled out word)

3. 3 months later negotiate increase to 5. (undecipherable, looks like "slils") ACE

4. 3 mos later change B.

What is interesting is that this note outlines a plan where the "final arrangements" conclude with something happening in January 1973, the month and year that Anna disappeared. This plan also includes applying for a sum of money (either $100.00 with one too many zeros behind the decimal or $100,000 with a period instead of a comma in the number). It appears the plan was to apply as Brody, then change the name on the loan three months later (which does not make a lot of sense, but that was apparently the plan).

The symbols used in the note appear to be shorthand. Is anyone out there familar with these symbols?

p with a line over it means "after" in medical jargon. (you will see it a lot of times on perscriptions as p meals) c with a line over it means "with".

My interpetation:
1. Contact Mont (Montgomery? Monty? Montreal? or the Washington city or most probably the insurance company) after Final arrangements with L's have been made. Jan. 1973
2. Apply for $100,000 with ACE, as (Bscribbled, possibly beneficiary)
3. 3 months later negotiate increase to 5. ____ with ACE.
4. 3 mos later change B.

I would check the BFH for communication with any couple with the last name beginning with L. ACE could most likely be an insurance company or loan company or an agency name. I think this was written by George W. due to the medical shorthand, maybe he was writing down the instructions from GB. I do think this is a significant find.

smile22
04-09-2006, 02:00 PM
i still think ace in the letter is refering to anna. i also think that the ls stand for lawyers contact l's for finaly arangements i belive it said must be laywers but.. if they were selling anna or giving her out to a family wouldnt they need annas mom to sign papers? did gw have any custody rights to anna like joint? or something. i mean you cant just give your child away to someone without both parents signing something?. unless gw and brody had a shady lawyer who produced documents of some sort and this was done in the black market?

Dr. Doogie
04-09-2006, 02:12 PM
i still think ace in the letter is refering to anna. i also think that the ls stand for lawyers contact l's for finaly arangements i belive it said must be laywers but.. if they were selling anna or giving her out to a family wouldnt they need annas mom to sign papers? did gw have any custody rights to anna like joint? or something. i mean you cant just give your child away to someone without both parents signing something?. unless gw and brody had a shady lawyer who produced documents of some sort and this was done in the black market?
Annasmom and GW had joint legal custody, yet Anna lived with Annasmom exclusively. GW never had any dealings with Anna after the divorce and never showed any interest in her except for the sending of child support checks. This note is the first evidence that Anna was even in his thoughts.

It is possible that GW & GB arranged for false paperwork showing that Annasmom was deceased or had abandoned Anna which would allow GW to "legally" sign adoption papers.

HeartofTexas
04-09-2006, 02:14 PM
2. Apply for $100.000 (a c with a line above it) A.C.E. as B (scribbled out word)
I interpret that as:

2. Apply for $100,000 (insurance policy) with A.C.E. (Anna Christian Eifee) as B (beneficiary).

PonderingThings
04-09-2006, 02:15 PM
This was in the 1970s Smile22 and sadly many "authorities" did not take custody into account. Whoever had the child frequently made all the decisions, no matter what the courts said. Its hard to believe in today's world but oftentimes family abduction reports weren't even taken.

Add to this the fact the George Waters was a doctor and you have a whole new catagory of "allowable leeway" that other mere mortals didn't enjoy.

So yes... a lot of money, an "ask no questions" lawyer, a father, a plan, and more than one person would have assisted.

Finally, George Waters lived in a hotel room that was in a run down area. Who knows how many times he treated some "unsavory characters" who didn't want to go to the hospital. Perhaps one was more than willing to help out the doctor with some forged papers?

Pure speculation on my part though.

Dr. Doogie
04-09-2006, 02:19 PM
I hate to say it... but if those 2 were involved with taking her... God help us all.
Actually, if they were involved (and I believe that they were), it increases the chances that Anna is still alive. As crazy as these two were, they were not predators or murderers. Brody was filled with a sense of "self importance" that lead him to believe that he was some sort of messiah - I do not believe that he or Waters would bring physical harm to Anna. I can, however, see where they would abduct her and get her into a "safe" environment "for her own good".

Dr. Doogie
04-09-2006, 02:21 PM
Pure speculation on my part though.
Your speculations seem right on to me.

Dr. Doogie
04-09-2006, 02:27 PM
oh, gee, somewhere in all these posts, doogie or annasmom has listed things that anna would have remembered. I can't find this post. I am e-mailing a woman in california who says there were no adoption record on her and I would like to include some things in the e-mail to jog her memory. Help me out!
I also have pictures of the whole family (Annasmom, Joe Ford, Annasbro and her other brother) from within a few short months before Anna disappeared that have not been posted for privacy reasons. If the woman that you are in contact with feels that there is a possibility that she is Anna, let me know and I will send you the pics.

HeartofTexas
04-09-2006, 02:36 PM
Sherlock, the things she would have remembered would have been: Joka (Joe), her brother's names Nonda and Eddie, a dog named Saturn, and her neighbors Peggy and Suzy.

Dr. Doogie
04-09-2006, 03:30 PM
I have just spent my morning digging through the Box from Hell, reviewing copies of dozens of insurance policies that might relate to the note that we have been discussing. A few observations:

1. All of the policies seem to been generated between late 1973 and 1975.

2. None of the policies have Anna listed as the beneficiary, but that may be because they were generated after Anna's disappearance.

3. All of the policies list "George Brody, Friend" as the beneficiary. Some of the policies show Brody as a "change in beneficiary", but no records exist that show who the original beneficiary was. A few of the policies have letters from Waters naming Brody as the "Irrevocable Beneficiary" where even Waters could not remove Brody as the benefiociary without Brody's written permission.

4. None of the policies were traditional life insurance where the benefits would be paid out upon the death of the insured for any reason. These were all "Accidental Death and Dismemberment" policies that frequently are offered through credit card companies as an added benefit of membership (Shell Oil, Sears, etc.) These are usually very low monthy cost policies where premiums are charged to the members credit card and require very little paperwork to apply for.

Dr. Doogie
04-09-2006, 03:53 PM
I just found a reference to an Accidental Death insurance policy issued by Lloyd's of London issued in 1970 with Brody as beneficiary. On July 30th, 1970, Waters presented it Brody as a "birthday gift" (remember, Brody claimed to have been born August 15th, 1925). The policy was for $100,000 with the promise to increase it to $1,000,000 in the future.

I do not believe that this was the policy mentioned in the above note because it was written two and a half years before the date mentioned of January 1973. It does appear to be the first instance of an insurance policy taken out by Waters listing Brody as the beneficiary.

Dr. Doogie
04-09-2006, 04:09 PM
I have also found a list of alimony and child support payments in 1972 in George Waters' handwriting. It methodically lists alimony payments of $125 to Annasmom on the 15th of the months and $175 to Anna on the first of the months. There is a notation that say "D/C (discontinue) Alimony - Remarried 9/16/72". All payments had been made by Bank of America money order until this point. Waters made one more child support payment with a BofA money order on 10/1. His last three child support payments were made by personal check - he listed the payee on this list as "A.C.E.W." This matches the "Plan" note's reference to "A.C.E." This tells me that "A.C.E." is definitely Anna.

The list shows his last payment was made 1/1/73. Chillingly, the last entry on this list says "Anna Lost - 1/16/73".

Dr. Doogie
04-09-2006, 04:16 PM
1. Contact MONY (possibly Mutual of New York) regarding Final arrangements with L's have been made. (Jan. 1973)
After looking at the note, I agree that it probably says "MONY" which would be Mutual of New York. I cannot find any records of a MONY insurance policy in the Box from Hell. I wonder if this was among the items that GW destryed between Brody's and Waters' deaths.

itsreenw
04-09-2006, 04:27 PM
ok, so L's could refer to Lloyd's of London. The use of the words "final arrangements" always reminds me of funeral plans.

I just don't understand the need to list Anna as the beneficiary, raise the amount 3 months later, then change the beneficiary. Why not put the intended beneficiary in the first place? What would be the benefit of that?

q64ceo
04-09-2006, 04:30 PM
mont=Altamont california? its in the Oakland area

Dr. Doogie
04-09-2006, 04:48 PM
ok, so L's could refer to Lloyd's of London. The use of the words "final arrangements" always reminds me of funeral plans.
Once again, you guys are good! "L's" could very well be Lloyd's. Whatever the "final arrangements" were, they were something that involved Anna that was to happen January 1973.

I just don't understand the need to list Anna as the beneficiary, raise the amount 3 months later, then change the beneficiary. Why not put the intended beneficiary in the first place? What would be the benefit of that?
This does not make a lot of sense to me either. It appears that the two Georges had already established Brody as the beneficiary two years earlier on the Lloyd's policy, so why is this happening in late 1972? That is why I believe that this note relates to more than just a beneficiary change.

SherlockJr
04-09-2006, 04:52 PM
Looking back at this note again, #2 ...with ACE as B.... really looks more like an "L".... the scribbly marks made the "L" look like a B. And why is it underlined twice??? The way it is underlined, maybe originally nothing was intended to go after the "L" just like in #4 the B underlined all by itself.

PonderingThings
04-09-2006, 04:57 PM
This does not make a lot of sense to me either. It appears that the two Georges had already established Brody as the beneficiary two years earlier on the Lloyd's policy, so why is this happening in late 1972? That is why I believe that this note relates to more than just a beneficiary change.
Actually the note is not dated... it could have been written after Jan 1973 or way before... all that is indicated is Jan 1973 is significant....

SherlockJr
04-09-2006, 05:02 PM
Pondering, most people don't plan the past... and I know the George's were not like most people. It is believed this was written prior to 1973. Although he speaks in past tense say "have been made". Something to consider!

itsreenw
04-09-2006, 05:06 PM
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e281/itsreenw/d160.jpg

that's definitely "Beneficiary"- the "f" is prominent as is the "y" at the end. It does look like he may have started off with "L" and realized he was writing the wrong word. He then spelled out Beneficiary

PonderingThings
04-09-2006, 05:09 PM
Sherlockjr your point is well taken about people not planning the past. What I was referring to was perhaps the final arrangements have been completed for the incident that began/occured in Jan 1973.

L's = Lawsuit?
L's = Losses?
L's = Links?
L's = Liabilities?
L's = Legal changes/alterations?

L's could be a lot of things.

1. Contact (undecipherable, looks like "mome") (a p with a line above it) Final arrangements (a c with a line above it) L's have been made. Jan 1973

q64ceo
04-09-2006, 05:13 PM
could the c with the line over it mean "care of"?

the p could stand for per, as in "per final"

SherlockJr
04-09-2006, 05:20 PM
Is it possible to contact Lloyds of London to find out if a payout was made after January of 1973 to anyone? Annasmom may have enough information in this note to have the FBI get involved and re-investigate Anna's dissapearance.

q64ceo
04-09-2006, 05:32 PM
ignore that c A.C.E. and it says, apply for 100,000 as B. That could mean that he applied to be the benneficiary of ACE.

Dr. Doogie
04-09-2006, 05:53 PM
The letter from Waters to Brody announcing his "birthday gift" of the policy does list policy numbers so it would be able to be tracked as far as a payout. However, it is an "Accidental Death" policy, so I cannot see how a payment would have been made. That being said, I will try and contact Lloyd's and see if any additional info can be gleaned from this.

Dr. Doogie
04-09-2006, 05:57 PM
Is it possible to contact Lloyds of London to find out if a payout was made after January of 1973 to anyone? Annasmom may have enough information in this note to have the FBI get involved and re-investigate Anna's dissapearance.
I believe that the note is suspicious enough that had it been discovered in the months after Anna's disappearance, LE could have used it to bring in the two Georges and "sweated" them with interrogation. Unfortunately, with both George's dead, I am not sure how interested LE would be today.

SherlockJr
04-09-2006, 06:06 PM
Anna is still a missing person. Skip the LE and go higher.

Dr. Doogie
04-09-2006, 06:20 PM
Anna is still a missing person. Skip the LE and go higher.
Higher, as in the FBI?

SherlockJr
04-09-2006, 06:27 PM
Higher, as in the FBI?

:clap:

SherlockJr
04-09-2006, 07:14 PM
Sherlockjr your point is well taken about people not planning the past. What I was referring to was perhaps the final arrangements have been completed for the incident that began/occured in Jan 1973.

L's = Lawsuit?
L's = Losses?
L's = Links?
L's = Liabilities?
L's = Legal changes/alterations?

L's could be a lot of things.

1. Contact (undecipherable, looks like "mome") (a p with a line above it) Final arrangements (a c with a line above it) L's have been made. Jan 1973

Sometime in late 60's there was a lawfirm called Lyons & Lyons located in San Mateo county. Don't know if this firm was still around in 1973.

petra
04-09-2006, 07:19 PM
I have just spent my morning digging through the Box from Hell, reviewing copies of dozens of insurance policies that might relate to the note that we have been discussing. A few observations:

1. All of the policies seem to been generated between late 1973 and 1975.

2. None of the policies have Anna listed as the beneficiary, but that may be because they were generated after Anna's disappearance.

3. All of the policies list "George Brody, Friend" as the beneficiary. Some of the policies show Brody as a "change in beneficiary", but no records exist that show who the original beneficiary was. A few of the policies have letters from Waters naming Brody as the "Irrevocable Beneficiary" where even Waters could not remove Brody as the benefiociary without Brody's written permission.


keeping an open mind about this--and placing myself in the Georges' shoes, this makes sense to me.

Anna was "lost" in Jan 1973. As a crushed, griefing parent who could be scared or terrified by this event....perhaps Dr Waters, since he was the only breadwinner in the twosome took these policies out to provide for Brody (maybe at Brody's suggestion) in case something "accidental" happened to him---just like it happened to Anna.
Dr Waters may have taken these policies, out of fear that perhaps something similar could happen to him, like happened to Anna......just disappearing

4. None of the policies were traditional life insurance where the benefits would be paid out upon the death of the insured for any reason. These were all "Accidental Death and Dismemberment" policies that frequently are offered through credit card companies as an added benefit of membership (Shell Oil, Sears, etc.) These are usually very low monthy cost policies where premiums are charged to the members credit card and require very little paperwork to apply for.


keeping an open mind about this--and placing myself in the Georges' shoes, this makes sense to me.

Anna was "lost" in Jan 1973. As a crushed, griefing parent who could be scared or terrified by this event....perhaps Dr Waters, since he was the only breadwinner in the twosome took these policies out to provide for Brody (maybe at Brody's suggestion) in case something "accidental" happened to him---just like it happened to Anna.
Dr Waters may have taken these policies, out of fear that perhaps something similar could happen to him, like happened to Anna......just disappearing

natasha-cupcake
04-09-2006, 08:39 PM
could the c with the line over it mean "care of"?

the p could stand for per, as in "per final"As a few others have mentioned already, "c" with a line above means "with" and "p" with a line above means "after" or "following". These are both extremely common shortcuts used in medical notes.

I've been following this case for a while and I believe this just may be one of the biggest breaks in figuring out what could have happened to this darling little girl.

Good work, Websleuthers!

Annasmom
04-09-2006, 09:17 PM
As a few others have mentioned already, "c" with a line above means "with" and "p" with a line above means "after" or "following". These are both extremely common shortcuts used in medical notes.

I've been following this case for a while and I believe this just may be one of the biggest breaks in figuring out what could have happened to this darling little girl.

Good work, Websleuthers!
Natasha-Cupcake, I was just about to suggest that the "p" meant "post" or "after"--it does change the meaning of the note. Thanks for your input!

Annasmom
04-09-2006, 10:25 PM
MONT- Montesano, WA

http://www.worldlicenceplates.com/jpglps/USA_WA_GI6_1960's.jpg

Annasbro, do any of these look familiar?
Itsreenw, I'm not sure how often Annasbro checks in to the forum these days, so I have printed out the license plate pictures and am mailing them to him. I'm amazed that you were able to get these. Maybe they will trigger some memory for him. Thank you.

Annasmom
04-09-2006, 10:29 PM
keeping an open mind about this--and placing myself in the Georges' shoes, this makes sense to me.

Anna was "lost" in Jan 1973. As a crushed, griefing parent who could be scared or terrified by this event....perhaps Dr Waters, since he was the only breadwinner in the twosome took these policies out to provide for Brody (maybe at Brody's suggestion) in case something "accidental" happened to him---just like it happened to Anna.
Dr Waters may have taken these policies, out of fear that perhaps something similar could happen to him, like happened to Anna......just disappearing
Petra, I have trouble imagining that Dr. Waters was crushed or grieving over this. Certainly he demonstrated what psychologists call "flat affect"--absolutely no emotion--with regard to his family before he left home, and apart from sending small checks which were required by law, he had no contact with us whatsover. When LE informed him that Anna had been lost, his only response was to say that he was not responsible and to consult a lawyer about discontinuing support payments. But in my heart, I would like to believe that he still had some feeling for his daughter, and so I found your remarks charitable. Thank you.

viking
04-10-2006, 12:23 AM
Catching up. The alimony and child support writings are scary (Anna lost)! The A.C.E., to me, is Anna Christian Eiffe. Weird!

viking
04-10-2006, 12:24 AM
Oh, and Anna's mom? I believe George loved you and Anna very much. He was just so trapped inside his hellish mind.

Love,

Mary

gardenmom
04-10-2006, 01:59 AM
I don't think the word is MONT at all. If you look at the other words that end in "t", it is totally different. Try comparing that letter to another one that is similar in another writing.

Dr. Doogie
04-10-2006, 11:09 AM
I don't think the word is MONT at all. If you look at the other words that end in "t", it is totally different. Try comparing that letter to another one that is similar in another writing.
I believe that Annasmom is correct: the word is MONY (Mutual of New York). It makes sense in the context of a discussion about insurance. That also lends me to believe that "L's" is Lloyd's (Lloyd's of London) who he did have an insurance policy through.

gardenmom
04-10-2006, 11:19 AM
I believe that Annasmom is correct: the word is MONY (Mutual of New York). It makes sense in the context of a discussion about insurance. That also lends me to believe that "L's" is Lloyd's (Lloyd's of London) who he did have an insurance policy through.
Look at the word "Apply", the "y" on the end is totally different. So, if we assume the "Y" on the end of MON(Y) is a capitol, I guess it may look different. I'm still not convinced, that's why if you can find some other writing samples, it may help decipher the letter. Do you know of any handwriting experts? Maybe try to find a college professor online that may be willing to help. Of course, I also know you will contact MONY to see if he had an account. That would clear it up for sure. At any rate, this is a very encouraging find and I am really happy things are picking up again.

Annasmom, I hope you are holding up well during all this excitement. :clap:

HeartofTexas
04-10-2006, 12:12 PM
That also lends me to believe that "L's" is Lloyd's (Lloyd's of London) who he did have an insurance policy through.
Doogie, why couldn't "L's" just be GW's shorthand for "life insurance policies"?

Dr. Doogie
04-10-2006, 12:19 PM
Doogie, why couldn't "L's" just be GW's shorthand for "life insurance policies"?
That is also possible.

itsreenw
04-10-2006, 01:34 PM
Dr. Doogie,

what else ya got in that box? I think that note has confirmed a lot of people's belief that GW and GB were involved.

Joe Ford, do you recall when it was that you heard GW make the comment about the tot being dead??

edited to add:
I emailed MONY (now AXA) and asked if they archived the records from the 70's. I briefly explained the reason for my inquiry and I am awaiting a response. If I get a reply I will get a contact name and forward it to Annasamom and Dr. Doogie.

Dr. Doogie
04-10-2006, 01:45 PM
Dr. Doogie, what else ya got in that box? I think that note has confirmed a lot of people's belief that GW and GB were involved.I am rededicating myself to mining the BFH for any other information. I must admit that I thought that Annasmom was being melodramatic concerning how difficult it is to review its contents - boy, was I wrong! It is spiritually draining to try and comprehend the writings of two mentally-ill men. However, I feel that hiding within the rants of these two resides the answers to a lot of our questions.


I emailed MONY (now AXA) and asked if they archived the records from the 70's. I briefly explained the reason for my inquiry and I am awaiting a response. If I get a reply I will get a contact name and forward it to Annasamom and Dr. Doogie.
Thanks, itsreenw. Are you back among the living now after your recent illness?

itsreenw
04-10-2006, 02:02 PM
Originally posted by Dr. Doogie Thanks, itsreenw. Are you back among the living now after your recent illness? Actually NO!! I am still sick but that won't keep me from logging into WS.

I'm sure you will let us know if you find anything else in the BFH- I am just amazed that you stumbled across that note. That is very telling. I wonder if GW didn't leave some of those things purposely so Annasmom would know what happened. He had to have a tinge of guilt about abducting her

Dr. Doogie
04-10-2006, 03:11 PM
I'm sure you will let us know if you find anything else in the BFH- I am just amazed that you stumbled across that note. That is very telling. I wonder if GW didn't leave some of those things purposely so Annasmom would know what happened. He had to have a tinge of guilt about abducting her
Waters was very meticulous about archiving every seemingly minor piece of paperwork that he had - even down to receipts for the portrait he had done of Brody in 1971 (still in his possesion in 1982). However, he evidently went on a purging binge between Brody's death 12/24/81 and his suicide estimated about 1/7/82. This note was a single sheet of 5.5x8.5 paper that must have been missed by Waters. I doubt that GW felt guilt over any involvement in Anna's disappearance. If he wanted Annasmom to know what happened, he could have left a confession in a suicide note spelling out clearly what occured. I believe that he felt justified in his actions and knowingly took his secrets to the grave. I think that we were just lucky that he wasn't as thorough at destroying evidence as he thought he was.

smile22
04-10-2006, 09:56 PM
do u think that somehow deep in his heart he might have wanted to tell annas mom about what happend but brody had forbid him to? also do u think waters took his life not only beacuse he was going crazy and brody had died but do u think he was distrought over what happend to anna and couldnt take it anymore. i mean brody had him really in check with everything. when brody was dying he could have pleaded with him or something to tell what happend to anna but being brody he could have convinced him t was for the best?

SherlockJr
04-11-2006, 12:10 AM
go higher!!!!!

Dr. Doogie
04-11-2006, 12:20 AM
do u think that somehow deep in his heart he might have wanted to tell annas mom about what happend but brody had forbid him to? also do u think waters took his life not only beacuse he was going crazy and brody had died but do u think he was distrought over what happend to anna and couldnt take it anymore. i mean brody had him really in check with everything. when brody was dying he could have pleaded with him or something to tell what happend to anna but being brody he could have convinced him t was for the best?
I think that Brody had him so wrapped around his finger that Waters completely had no clue how to exist without Brody's "guidance". I have notes from the Box from Hell where Waters claims that Brody is the greatest thing that has happened to planet Earth in all of its history. Waters told Annasmom that Brody was greater than Jesus Christ. The level of devotion and respect that he had for this old coot was truely frightening.

Dr. Doogie
04-11-2006, 12:55 AM
I have posted links to all of the pictures of Anna in the Vital Statistics thread (Post #13). This is to help people find them without having to scour all of the threads for the various links.

Dr. Doogie
04-11-2006, 01:53 AM
A quick note about the missing safe deposit keys: they have been found in the Box from Hell. Unfortunately, the contents of any SDB's have been forfitedand any personal papers were destroyed by the state. There is a substantial amount of money in one under the name of George Brody, but only an heir can claim it.

HeartofTexas
04-11-2006, 09:35 AM
There is a substantial amount of money in one under the name of George Brody, but only an heir can claim it.
A substantial sum of money in a safety deposit box could negate the Synanon theory (where most of GW's income was donated to Synanon). OTOH, with both of them being so paranoid, anything is possible.

Joe Ford
04-11-2006, 09:44 AM
Higher, as in the FBI?
As GW's sister was president of the Socialists Worker's Party, it seems likely that the FBI would have a file on her and possibly her brother, GW. Maybe the Freedom of Information Act could unearth some details of an investigation that possibly would include Brody?

mysteriew
04-11-2006, 10:53 AM
There is a substantial amount of money in one under the name of George Brody, but only an heir can claim it.

Could that be used in any way to force an investigation by authorities? Logically all or a portion of the money would have been Anna's as she is the only known heir. Anna is missing under suspicious circumstances. Could those funds be used to finance the search or anything?

smile22
04-11-2006, 11:03 AM
im sure if u petition the courts and all i mean it is part of an investigation involving anna and we need to know all the info we can get.. you said in the bfh the keys were located hmm? all the personal stuff was distroyed by the state what about other stuff in their like money or jewelry or something that might link us to anna could it be possible to get into those boxes im sure with the right contacts anything can happen

Dr. Doogie
04-11-2006, 12:01 PM
As GW's sister was president of the Socialists Worker's Party, it seems likely that the FBI would have a file on her and possibly her brother, GW. Maybe the Freedom of Information Act could unearth some details of an investigation that possibly would include Brody?
Good idea. GW also may have his own file based on his refusal of the draft during Viet Nam and his anti-war activites. If this turned up anything of value, we would actually have Richard Nixon's paranoia to thank (Who 'da thunk it?)

Dr. Doogie
04-11-2006, 12:06 PM
Could that be used in any way to force an investigation by authorities? Logically all or a portion of the money would have been Anna's as she is the only known heir. Anna is missing under suspicious circumstances. Could those funds be used to finance the search or anything?
Anna was Waters' heir. The only way that this money could be accessed is if Waters was listed as Brody's heir. The only potential chain of heirship that would work is Brody dies, leaves money to Waters. Waters dies with Anna as his heir. Anna missing, so Annasmom receives the money and holds it trust for Anna.

I do not know if an attorney could even make this chain of events happen, and if they could, they would suck dry the funds so that nothing was left.

SherlockJr
04-11-2006, 12:36 PM
I do not know if an attorney could even make this chain of events happen, and if they could, they would suck dry the funds so that nothing was left.

I can question my brother about this chain of events. But this is a bad week to bother him, he is involved in a very large case in Ohio right now. But I will e-mail him anyway.

mysteriew
04-11-2006, 01:02 PM
Anna was Waters' heir. The only way that this money could be accessed is if Waters was listed as Brody's heir. The only potential chain of heirship that would work is Brody dies, leaves money to Waters. Waters dies with Anna as his heir. Anna missing, so Annasmom receives the money and holds it trust for Anna.

I do not know if an attorney could even make this chain of events happen, and if they could, they would suck dry the funds so that nothing was left.

So Brody's name was the only one listed on the box?

Dr. Doogie
04-11-2006, 01:13 PM
So Brody's name was the only one listed on the box?
Evidently, since the California Unclaimed Property site only lists Brody. Bank of America had not been able to locate any records of the box that might provide any more information.

mysteriew
04-11-2006, 01:17 PM
Well, I guess that explains why George W. didn't empty it. He didn't have access to it since it wasn't in his name.

SherlockJr
04-11-2006, 01:17 PM
Evidently, since the California Unclaimed Property site only lists Brody. Bank of America had not been able to locate any records of the box that might provide any more information.

Am I understanding this right? The box is empty now. All papers were destroyed and any money left in the box is now with the State of Unclaimed Funds. Is this fact or belief?

Dr. Doogie
04-11-2006, 01:23 PM
Am I understanding this right? The box is empty now. All papers were destroyed and any money left in the box is now with the State of Unclaimed Funds. Is this fact or belief?
Unfortunately, it is fact. The State only absorbs the money into its general fund and will repay any heirs after a valid claim is filed and approved. Any non-monetary contents of the boxes are destroyed by the State with no record of what they were. Ain't government a wonderful thing...

HeartofTexas
04-11-2006, 01:26 PM
And boy do they make you jump thru hoops to claim the money, too. It's hard to do it without an attorney's assistance... and hiring the attorney eats up most of what you get. The whole process drug out for more than a year when I went thru it. We had to file ancillary probate in another state in order to claim the money, and that alone cost about $6,000 for attorney's fees.

SherlockJr
04-11-2006, 01:28 PM
im sure if u petition the courts and all i mean it is part of an investigation involving anna and we need to know all the info we can get.. you said in the bfh the keys were located hmm? all the personal stuff was distroyed by the state what about other stuff in their like money or jewelry or something that might link us to anna could it be possible to get into those boxes im sure with the right contacts anything can happen

Is there a way to find out if "other stuff" was left in the box?

SherlockJr
04-11-2006, 01:31 PM
And boy do they make you jump thru hoops to claim the money, too. It's hard to do it without an attorney's assistance... and hiring the attorney eats up most of what you get. The whole process drug out for more than a year when I went thru it. We had to file ancillary probate in another state in order to claim the money, and that alone cost about $6,000 for attorney's fees.
I was able to find money for my father from his mother who passed in 1964. Wasn't that hard, but took the state about 4 months to send his money to him.

Dr. Doogie
04-11-2006, 01:34 PM
Is there a way to find out if "other stuff" was left in the box?
No record was kept of its contents beyond the cash. Interestingly enough, the total of cash came to $16,970.09 - that means that Brody had at least four pennies in the box. A sane person would have filled it with at least twenties and up, he seemed to empty his pocket change into it!

azure
04-12-2006, 01:03 AM
I'm not sure if someone has mentioned this yet, but could the L's be the family that was going to take Anna? This makes sense with the final arrangements being the arrangements of her abduction and new life.

If insurance policies were given as gifts, perhaps this was GW's gift to Anna before starting her new life.

Kelly

Dr. Doogie
04-12-2006, 01:18 AM
I'm not sure if someone has mentioned this yet, but could the L's be the family that was going to take Anna? This makes sense with the final arrangements being the arrangements of her abduction and new life.
You may very well be correct.

Dr. Doogie
04-12-2006, 01:23 AM
I spoke with the Private Investigator who has been working on this case on-and-off since the late 1970's. He has worked some big-time cases (Kennedy assasination, the Oklahoma City bombing and the World Trade Center Building 7, for example) and has a lot of experience with Freedom of Information Act requests. Here is his opinion:

"FOIA lawsuits are a specialty in their own right. It
will be a long and laborious process. The likelihood of finding
anything significant in these records, to my mind, does not justify
the labor involved in trying to get them. In addition, you very
likely would end up getting nothing."

I will probably still place the request, but I am not optimistic that it will prove productive. I will let you know how it is going.

gardenmom
04-12-2006, 01:35 AM
Doc, clear some space in your mail box. (Please) :blowkiss:

SherlockJr
04-12-2006, 02:56 AM
HeartOfTexas we need you!!!! You are the geneologist in the this family. We need a family tree on Brody like yesterday.
:woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:

mfmangel1
04-12-2006, 09:59 AM
WOW! You leave for a few days and look at what happens....The BFH raises it's ugly head to bite Dr. Doogie and the Websleuthers. This is unreal! Okay, now I have so many questions. I hope they have not been addressed previously.

Why the obsession with the accidental death policies? They would not have paid out like normal life insurance policies. Did GW and GB use them to borrow against, and if so, where did that money go? They certainly were not living extravagantly. It would seem that GW's income would have been sufficient to cover their meager living expenses.

Had GW and/or GB been to the home from which Anna was taken?

What were GW's and GB's alibis for the day Anna disappeared?

I believe Annasmom stated that GW owned a Volkswagon 411 squareback. Did anyone remember seeing that vehicle in the area in the days leading up to Anna's disappearance? Was the car searched by LE? What happened to the car after GW's death?

It has been stated that the home/property could be viewed from certain sites. Were any tire tracks taken by LE?

It has been stated that a friend saw a white van with an older man and a younger man on the same road as the home just prior to the abduction. Did LE verify if a van had been rented by GW or GB recently for any reason?

I am just praying that the BFH will finally give up it's secrets.

Dr. Doogie
04-12-2006, 12:17 PM
Why the obsession with the accidental death policies? They would not have paid out like normal life insurance policies. Did GW and GB use them to borrow against, and if so, where did that money go? They certainly were not living extravagantly. It would seem that GW's income would have been sufficient to cover their meager living expenses.
That is a good question. It may be that GW was relatively young and healthy, and they felt that an accidental death was the most likely way that GW might die. I do not believe that a person can use these type of policies as collateral for loans since they have no value unless the insured dies in a particular way. While they did not live in extravagant housing, evidently GB was quite the natty dresser and spent quite a bit of GW's money on clothes and they also ate at local dinners for most (if not all) of their meals.

Had GW and/or GB been to the home from which Anna was taken?


No, not that anyone is aware of, but child support payments were mailed to the street address, so Waters was aware of where the family lived.

What were GW's and GB's alibis for the day Anna disappeared?...It has been stated that a friend saw a white van with an older man and a younger man on the same road as the home just prior to the abduction. Did LE verify if a van had been rented by GW or GB recently for any reason?
It is believed by Joe Ford that GW and GB were such mentally damaged goods that neither one of them could have physically been involved in abducting Anna. However, they could have hired or arranged someone to commit the crime.
I believe Annasmom stated that GW owned a Volkswagon 411 squareback. Did anyone remember seeing that vehicle in the area in the days leading up to Anna's disappearance? Was the car searched by LE? What happened to the car after GW's death. It has been stated that the home/property could be viewed from certain sites. Were any tire tracks taken by LE?

Annasom can provide answers to these questions.

HeartofTexas
04-12-2006, 01:45 PM
HeartOfTexas we need you!!!! You are the geneologist in the this family. We need a family tree on Brody like yesterday.

I'm here, Sherlock, but I doubt I will be any good as it relates to Brody. How do you do a family tree on a man with probably a false name and no clue where he came from? And both names... George and Brody... are very common names and could and will show up in any number of family trees. If someone has some good solid information on who George Brody really is, I will put forth the effort to trace his family ties. But I truly don't have the time to trace every George Brody without having a clue how to decide which one, if any, are him. Personally, I don't even think that's his real name. But that's JMHO.

Annasmom
04-12-2006, 01:48 PM
[color=#4b0082]What were GW's and GB's alibis for the day Anna disappeared?

I believe Annasmom stated that GW owned a Volkswagon 411 squareback. Did anyone remember seeing that vehicle in the area in the days leading up to Anna's disappearance? Was the car searched by LE? What happened to the car after GW's death?

It has been stated that the home/property could be viewed from certain sites. Were any tire tracks taken by LE?

It has been stated that a friend saw a white van with an older man and a younger man on the same road as the home just prior to the abduction. Did LE verify if a van had been rented by GW or GB recently for any reason?

I am just praying that the BFH will finally give up it's secrets.
All I know is that LE notified GW of Anna's disappearance (I believe they located him through his job) and that they were satisfied with his alibi and did not question him further, though a detective did follow him for several days. It may be significant that GW and GB were not seen in their hotel rooms for about a week after Anna's disappearance (this should be verified with Joe Ford). There was no investigation regarding the white van that I know of; no tire tracks were taken, but there probably would not have been any on a paved road which was wet and rainy and had been crossed back and forth by many emergency vehicles. We thought we saw a white station wagon drive off Purisima Creek Road, down to the horse barns, turn around and leave, the first week after Anna disappeared. Nobody ever pursued this, and I am not even sure it had any significance at all. At some point, Doogie posted his thoughts on what must now seem a very cursory investigation. I think LE was under constraints of budget and time as regarded official action, and they did a lot of looking on their own time, as volunteers

Dr. Doogie
04-12-2006, 03:47 PM
I have not yet been able to identify which clinic for alcoholism rehab GW worked at prior to Anna's disappearance. Joe Ford, who trailed Waters and Brody a couple of years after Anna's disappearance, thought that it might be a clinic connected to Kaiser-Permenante, but I believe GW started there sometime after January 1973.

Some of the posters to the Rose Cole thread are continuing to question the former Synanon member as to the issue of whether Anna was there, but the woman seems to be giving conflicting answers (not by design - I am sure that she is being truthful. It is just that this was a long time ago with a lot of people coming and going from the facility. The woman also is concerned about protecting the privacy of her fellow members).

As to the issue of Brody's family tree - HoT is correct that we do not know enough about Brody to even start one. He truely was a mystery man.

scotch117
04-12-2006, 05:58 PM
There is a very large property and casualty insurance company called ACE who writes policies such as the ones you describe. I dont know however how long they have actually been writing policies in the US, I worked for a subcontracted company under them several years back and do know that they have been in existence for a long time and are based in Bermuda. I couldnt tell you much else about them.

http://www.acelimited.com/AceLimitedRoot/

For future reference the following are commonly used medical shorthand:

/c - with
/s - without
/a - before
/p - after
ii or II (ll) - 2
i or I (l) - 1

hs - at bedtime
ac - before meals
pc - after meals

Dr. Doogie
04-12-2006, 06:12 PM
There is a very large property and casualty insurance company called ACE who writes policies such as the ones you describe. I dont know however how long they have actually been writing policies in the US, I worked for a subcontracted company under them several years back and do know that they have been in existence for a long time and are based in Bermuda. I couldnt tell you much else about them.

http://www.acelimited.com/AceLimitedRoot/
I checked out the link listed - the company became ACE in 1985. The lineage of the company does go back to 1972, but under a different name, so this is not what GW was referring to in his note. Nice work, Scotch, even if it wasn't what he referred to!

For future reference the following are commonly used medical shorthand:

/c - with
/s - without
/a - before
/p - after
ii or II (ll) - 2
i or I (l) - 1

hs - at bedtime
ac - before meals
pc - after meals
Thanks for the translation - it may come in real handy deciphering any new notes that may be discovered.

scotch117
04-12-2006, 06:17 PM
If you need help deciphering medicalese, just holler, I write a lot of it myself so it's second nature for me to read it.

itsreenw
04-12-2006, 08:04 PM
No record was kept of its contents beyond the cash. Interestingly enough, the total of cash came to $16,970.09 I wonder if this was the amount of a check that was cashed at the bank and all the money put in a safe deposit box right then and there. It does seem to be an odd amount to put away.

RE: other items left unclaimed in safe deposit boxes in CA-it is my understanding that documents are destroyed, items of value are auctioned and the money is held for claimants, then absorbed by the state after a number of years (I forget how many years).

SherlockJr
04-14-2006, 02:05 AM
It has been confirmed by several different people from Synanon that the younger girl in the picture is not Anna. Also the name "Christian" on the shoebox was a young boy who lived there.

mjak
04-14-2006, 09:38 AM
It has been confirmed by several different people from Synanon that the younger girl in the picture is not Anna. Also the name "Christian" on the shoebox was a young boy who lived there.
In the Rose thread JulieL, when asked if she recognized Anna's picture she said Yes. Later on when asked to clarify this she stated that many blond girls look alike. I happen to think Anna is very unique looking . Although, I think Anna's dissapearnce is unlikley to be tied t synanon I would like a clarification from Juliel as to why she thought she recognized Anna.

mjak

Dr. Doogie
04-14-2006, 11:19 AM
I am getting the impression that the Synanon connection is turning out to be dead end. Two different sources have identified the girl by different names (both of which were born in 1971). It appears that the picture's date has been misidentified - appears to be from circa 1976-77 based on the age of the girl.

JulieL stated that she recognized the picture of Anna as someone who was in Synanon, but remember: 1) This was 30 years ago, and 2) there were a lot of children in the group. I do not know how much weight to apply to her statement.

mysteriew
04-15-2006, 03:27 AM
Have you heard anything from NCMEC yet?

Dr. Doogie
04-15-2006, 02:39 PM
Have you heard anything from NCMEC yet?
Not a word. I sent my email request to both Gerry Nance and his assistant who had made the original offer of photo comparisons. I will contact them by phone next week and see what they are doing.

HeartofTexas
04-15-2006, 11:09 PM
Doogie, make room in your PM box!

Dr. Doogie
04-15-2006, 11:13 PM
Doogie, make room in your PM box!
Sorry, HoT. It is ready to receive.

Annasbro
04-16-2006, 08:41 PM
itscreenw - thanks for posting the plates. As a gut reaction I say the bottom two plates on the left. I am leasning to the far lest on the bottom - 63-85 (with the 68 sticker). Thanks for posting those - this is just my gut reaction -

kyresearcher
04-17-2006, 02:07 AM
Annasmom, since we think GW knew what happened to Anna, have you thought that maybe when he died that his social security benifits would go to her? She would have been only 14 years old at the time of his death and if she was with someone whom he had arranged to take care of her they would have applied for his benifits to go to her.

Have you thought of hiring an attorney to check into it? He could petition the courts and get a court order directing the social security office to release anything pretaining to his social security benefits as to whom it was paid out to and the address... This would also work if he had her name changed. Just a thought, but might be worth looking into..........

itsreenw
04-17-2006, 02:10 AM
itscreenw - thanks for posting the plates. As a gut reaction I say the bottom two plates on the left. I am leasning to the far lest on the bottom - 63-85 (with the 68 sticker). Thanks for posting those - this is just my gut reaction -Hey Annasbro~good to see ya!! You're welcome. The last week or so has really been productive here. Lots of developments. Glad the plates were of some use. They may be helpful in the future.

Dr. Doogie
04-17-2006, 11:40 AM
I contacted MONY over the weekend and they responded this morning: they did not have any life insurance or accidental death policies issued to George Waters. This makes the note all that much more curious. Either the word is not "MONY" or the Georges tried to get a policy and failed.

Annasmom
04-17-2006, 12:26 PM
Annasmom, since we think GW knew what happened to Anna, have you thought that maybe when he died that his social security benifits would go to her? She would have been only 14 years old at the time of his death and if she was with someone whom he had arranged to take care of her they would have applied for his benifits to go to her.

Have you thought of hiring an attorney to check into it? He could petition the courts and get a court order directing the social security office to release anything pretaining to his social security benefits as to whom it was paid out to and the address... This would also work if he had her name changed. Just a thought, but might be worth looking into..........
It's a really good idea, but I'd have to find some way other than hiring a lawyer to do it, since that would cost an arm and a leg. Really good thinking. Thank you.

Dr. Doogie
04-17-2006, 12:52 PM
It's a really good idea, but I'd have to find some way other than hiring a lawyer to do it, since that would cost an arm and a leg. Really good thinking. Thank you.
Annasmom:

I have GW's SSN. I will see what info I can find out from the SSA.

Dr. Doogie
04-17-2006, 05:07 PM
A quick update on a couple of lines of investigation that we are working;

1) I am still waiting to hear from the NCMEC concerning their comparison of the girl from Synanon and Anna. I called them today, but missed their office hours (three hour difference). I will try again tomorrow.

2) I am drawing a bead on the possible relative of the woman who lived with Brody prior to his living with Waters. I now have an email address and phone number for the relative and am just waiting to get some other information together before making contact. I will probably make contact this week, thanks to the off-forum research of HeartofTexas. Great job, HoT!

3) Another possible match for Anna has appeared. I do not want to say much more than this at this point, but there appears to be at least an indirect link from her to Brody. I am trying to get a picture or a description of her to compare to the age-progressed picture of Anna before contacting her. I do not want to overstate the possibilty of a match - this is based on a lot of speculation at this point! Hopefully, more details will be found and will clarify how high the odds are of this being Anna. I will keep everyone posted.

Every day, we inch closer to the truth. Thanks to everyone for your efforts!

Dr. Doogie
04-17-2006, 09:00 PM
I am drawing a bead on the possible relative of the woman who lived with Brody prior to his living with Waters. I now have an email address and phone number for the relative and am just waiting to get some other information together before making contact. I will probably make contact this week, thanks to the off-forum research of HeartofTexas. Great job, HoT!
An email has been sent to the possible relative of the woman that Brody resided with prior to Waters. She is too young to have known the woman, but I hope that she can relay the questions to others in her family who may have known Brody and can provide some answers.

Dr. Doogie
04-18-2006, 12:25 PM
Another quick discovery from the Box from Hell:

I found a research note from Joe Ford that outlined how, even though Waters and Brody had air-tight alibis for when Anna disappeared, they both disappeared the following week for about 7-10 days. He was not able through credit card records to reconstruct where they went.

gardenmom
04-18-2006, 02:49 PM
Another quick discovery from the Box from Hell:

I found a research note from Joe Ford that outlined how, even though Waters and Brody had air-tight alibis for when Anna disappeared, they both disappeared the following week for about 7-10 days. He was not able through credit card records to reconstruct where they went.
I doubt his work records still exist, but wouldn't a doctor have to leave a forwarding phone number in case he was needed?

Dr. Doogie
04-18-2006, 03:35 PM
I doubt his work records still exist, but wouldn't a doctor have to leave a forwarding phone number in case he was needed?
Waters worked primarily at clinics where people would see whatever doctor was available. It was this lack of continuity that allowed him to continue working without people recognizing that he was mentally ill. Had he had a regular practice with repeat patients, he probably would have lost his license based on the illness.

smile22
04-19-2006, 11:34 AM
in the bfh are their any records of credit card slips or anything like say he went to a store in this state and bought something. were credit card recipts the same as today or were they diffrent? if their are recipts and it lists stuff like juice, maybe a childs snack type thingy. a toy those things would have clues as to if brody and gw had anna taken. and they would also list the address of the place they used the cc at right? i think back then they had the credit card slider machine where u slide something to imprint the cc on the slip i know at target where i work we still have those but only if the persons cc strip is gone

itsreenw
04-19-2006, 12:31 PM
Smile, re: post 206, refer to post 203. Doesn't look like there was a paper trail for them.

smile22
04-19-2006, 02:09 PM
oh ok so they must have used cash to pay for the purchases. does anyone know if any of waters co workers knew where he was going for that week he was missing im sure he would have had to say something to someone about where he was going to be. if i was his boss im sure i would be concerned if he didnt show up to work.

mjak
04-20-2006, 10:13 AM
Another quick discovery from the Box from Hell:

I found a research note from Joe Ford that outlined how, even though Waters and Brody had air-tight alibis for when Anna disappeared, they both disappeared the following week for about 7-10 days. He was not able through credit card records to reconstruct where they went.
This is absolulty baffeling to me. I can think of no acceptable reason why a parent would disappear for 7-10 days when there child as just gone missing. Was in common for these two men to dissapear at times?

mjak

Dr. Doogie
04-20-2006, 11:35 AM
This is absolulty baffeling to me. I can think of no acceptable reason why a parent would disappear for 7-10 days when there child as just gone missing. Was in common for these two men to dissapear at times?

It was not uncommon for Dr. Waters to attend various conferences and seminars that required a few days absences. It was much rarer that Brody would also disappear at the same time.

HeartofTexas
04-20-2006, 11:40 AM
From a rational viewpoint, it's very hard not to assign some kind of involvement with Anna's disappearance to the two of them disappearing for 7-10 days following her abduction. Very strange indeed (not that the two of them weren't strange in their own right!).

mjak
04-20-2006, 11:50 AM
It was not uncommon for Dr. Waters to attend various conferences and seminars that required a few days absences. It was much rarer that Brody would also disappear at the same time.
If Dr. Waters had left to go someplace at this time I would think Annasmom would have information as to where he went. What if Anna was found deceased or injured and they needed to get in touch with him immediatly? Wouldn't the police have wanted to know where he was going? Of cause I am thinking in the mindset of the year 2006. No parent today could just dissapear for 7-10 days following there child's dissapearnce and not explain themselves at least to authorities ASAP.

mjak

Dr. Doogie
04-20-2006, 12:24 PM
If Dr. Waters had left to go someplace at this time I would think Annasmom would have information as to where he went. What if Anna was found deceased or injured and they needed to get in touch with him immediatly? Wouldn't the police have wanted to know where he was going? Of cause I am thinking in the mindset of the year 2006. No parent today could just dissapear for 7-10 days following there child's dissapearnce and not explain themselves at least to authorities ASAP.Waters only involvement with Anna or Annasmom at the time of her disappearance was the mailing of child support payments. He showed zero desire to have any involvement in Anna's life. Remember, he was so estranged from the family that even after he "knew" of Anna's plight, he never contacted Annasmom. As a result, he would not have notified Annasmom of any travel plans.

(As a side note: When Waters traveled, he would request in writing that the airlines not notify anyone in his family if he were to be killed in an accident other than Brody. This appears to be an attempt to make sure Brody would receive the insurance payoffs before the family could contest the policies - not that they would have contested it anyway. This is how secretive the two Georges were - they didn't even want Annasmom to know if Waters was dead.)

mysteriew
04-20-2006, 04:39 PM
Reportedly, the two Georges had an alibi for the time period of the kidnapping. Did the LE not find it strange that they disappeared soon after the kidnapping?

Dr. Doogie
04-20-2006, 05:38 PM
Did the LE not find it strange that they disappeared soon after the kidnapping?
I believe that this disappearance was discovered after a period of time. LE had already pretty much decided that Anna had drowned in the creek by that time (not because that is where the evidence led, but because it was the easiest solution to a difficult case). Once they came to that conclusion, LE never seemed to be that interested in any other evidence, no matter what was turned up.

This is why Annasmom is adamant that we concentrate our efforts on various abduction theories, rather than the drowned in the creek theory - so much time and effort has been put into the creek theory that the other possibilities have not been fully explored.

Annasmom
04-20-2006, 07:32 PM
Doogie asked me about the absence of the two Georges after Anna's disappearance, and I found it in my journal, dated Jan. 31, 1973: "We called Sergeant Maguire, who says George and his companion Brody haven't been seen at the hotel for more than a week." (This was the late Brendan Maguire, who investigated the couple and who later became San Mateo County Sheriff. The facility in San Mateo is named for him.)

mfmangel1
04-20-2006, 10:32 PM
I believe that this disappearance was discovered after a period of time. LE had already pretty much decided that Anna had drowned in the creek by that time (not because that is where the evidence led, but because it was the easiest solution to a difficult case). Once they came to that conclusion, LE never seemed to be that interested in any other evidence, no matter what was turned up.

This is why Annasmom is adamant that we concentrate our efforts on various abduction theories, rather than the drowned in the creek theory - so much time and effort has been put into the creek theory that the other possibilities have not been fully explored.
If LE decided then that Anna had drowned, was it then a closed case?

Regardless of the status, closed....open....cold, etc....it does not appear to be actively investigated by LE at this point.

Has anyone in the immediate family recently requested a copy of the case file? This would be of immense help in putting the pieces together with what has been discovered here, with the bfh, etc....

I can't imagine what damage it could possibly do to LE's investigation of this case after all of this time to allow the family to have the case file for their own benefit....Not just the initial police report, which tells very little info.

In my own experience, I had been told the case was too old....Nothing but the initial one page police report existed and everything else had been destroyed.

I did not believe that and continued to be persistent.

Lo and behold, I found a sympathetic officer who forwarded copies of the complete case file to me and it was huge.

I am forever grateful to that officer!

We need a sympathetic officer for Anna.

Dr. Doogie
04-21-2006, 11:20 AM
If LE decided then that Anna had drowned, was it then a closed case?

Regardless of the status, closed....open....cold, etc....it does not appear to be actively investigated by LE at this point.
The case was not officially closed - it was just ignored. I believe that LE concluded that Anna drown, but because there was no evidence to prove that conclusion, they officially left the case open. Each year that passes with no body or bones being found along the creek shows the short-sightedness of that decision.

We have been able to uncover evidence and clues here at WS (with our limited resources) that LE might very well have been able to uncover while the trail was still warm if they had persued this aggressively in 1973:

1) That Anna was approached by a couple in a car and was enticed to get in the vehicle with them one month before she actually disappeared. This information alone would have focused the investigation in a whole new direction.

2) That a note by George Waters seems to indicate involvement by himself and Brody in the planning of Anna's abduction.

3) That though they had alibis for the actual abduction, both Waters and Brody uncharacteristically were not at their hotel for at least a week in the few days after Anna's disappearance.

The NCMEC lists Anna's case as a "probable stranger abduction". I believe that with what we have uncovered, we can say with certainity that Anna was abducted, probably by a paternal/stranger conspiracy.

mfmangel1
04-21-2006, 04:50 PM
The case was not officially closed - it was just ignored. I believe that LE concluded that Anna drown, but because there was no evidence to prove that conclusion, they officially left the case open. Each year that passes with no body or bones being found along the creek shows the short-sightedness of that decision.

We have been able to uncover evidence and clues here at WS (with our limited resources) that LE might very well have been able to uncover while the trail was still warm if they had persued this aggressively in 1973:

1) That Anna was approached by a couple in a car and was enticed to get in the vehicle with them one month before she actually disappeared. This information alone would have focused the investigation in a whole new direction.

2) That a note by George Waters seems to indicate involvement by himself and Brody in the planning of Anna's abduction.

3) That though they had alibis for the actual abduction, both Waters and Brody uncharacteristically were not at their hotel for at least a week in the few days after Anna's disappearance.

The NCMEC lists Anna's case as a "probable stranger abduction". I believe that with what we have uncovered, we can say with certainity that Anna was abducted, probably by a paternal/stranger conspiracy.

I agree with the clues and theories uncovered here.
My feelings are that the LE case file may fill in some blanks that would help
us here.

The family is certainly entitled to view it at this point.

Dr. Doogie
04-24-2006, 11:36 PM
I have been reluctant up to this point to mention the name of the woman that Brody lived with prior to his living with Waters. She was not involved in anyway in the disappearance of Anna - she passed away one-and-a-half months before Anna was born (and five years before Anna disappeared), so she is completely innocent of any involvement and was most likely another victim of Brody. However, she is the best means of figuring out who this very mysterious man was.

Margaret Kukoda was born August 3, 1917 in eastern Pennsylvania. She had at least six siblings as of the 1930 census. She was in the Armed Services from 1943 to 1951 (WAVES?). Maragert never married. She resided in San Francisco from circa 1937 to her death on August 3, 1967 (her fiftieth birthday) from bronchial pneumonia. She had been a shop owner in San Francisco (household items?) for most of her non-military adulthood.

She lived with Brody for at least a decade prior to her death. It is possible that she knew Brody for longer than that - there were some vague clues that Brody was also from Pennsylvania, so it is conceivable that that they met each other in PA prior to 1937.

There is no indication that she and Brody were romantically involved. Here is a hypothesis to mull over: perhaps Brody was a relative, maybe even a brother. There are a couple of brothers who do not show up on the SS Death Index (one is apparantly still alive at age 92). Is it possible that "Brody" was in fact one of these siblings that fell off the radar?

The Kukoda family started in New Jersey, with major portions of them ending up in Pennsylvania and Buffalo, NY (all in the same general region of the country).

There is a woman who is from the Buffalo portion of the family that moved to the San Francisco area in 1996 (I will not mention her name here on the forum to protect her privacy - anyone interested can find her easily through standard people-search engines). Through the hard work of some of the researchers here on WS, we have her married name, current address, phone number and email. I have sent an email to her asking if she had any information concerning Maragaret and/or Brody. I am awaiting a response. If one does happen soon, my next step is to phone her. If you find any contact information, please do not contact her directly! I do not want to scare her off!

I will keep you informed to our progress.

Dr. Doogie
04-26-2006, 04:04 PM
Margaret was a navy nurse at Letterman Hospital (Presido Army Base, San Francisco) during her military career.

She did have some legal troubles that resulted in her being placed on probation for four months in 1953 (nothing that seems to relate in any way to Anna's case, so I will not post the details here). Media reports from the time do not mention Brody or anyone fitting Brody's description being involved. The earliest that we have been able to tie Brody and Kukoda is either the late 1950's or the early 1960's.

Dr. Doogie
04-27-2006, 06:18 PM
Doogie asked me about the absence of the two Georges after Anna's disappearance, and I found it in my journal, dated Jan. 31, 1973: "We called Sergeant Maguire, who says George and his companion Brody haven't been seen at the hotel for more than a week."
I was rereading the recent posts and realized how significant this point is:

"More than a week" would mean at least eight days they were missing. Eight days from January 31 would mean that they had been missing since (at the latest) January 23 which is only one week after when Anna disappeared. We know that Waters was working on the day she disappeared, so the window for the start date for their "trip" was somewhere between January 17th and the 23rd.

Even a couple of loons like GW and GB would have had to have recognized that traveling out of town so close to the disappearance of Anna would have raised suspicions, yet they went anyway - their trip must have been very important (it was worth the risk).

I believe that they must have been transporting Anna somewhere during this absence. The length of their absence points away from my theory that Anna was kidnapped by the couple in the car who lived within a half-a-day drive from HMB. I am starting to think that the couple in the car did the actual abduction for GW and GB, then GW and GB transported Anna to somewhere at least three days away, giving her to someone else. It is possible that the couple and the two Georges traveled together, but I cannot come up with a rational reason why the Georges would have accompanied the couple on their journey.

One other aspect of the length of their absence: it bodes well for the possibility that Anna was not physically harmed after the abduction. If they were disposing of a body, why make an eight day round trip to do it. No, it appears to me that Anna was transported alive and that means that she could still be alive today.

There is a lot of speculation in the above analysis. Please give me some feedback and let me know if something is wrong in my thinking here.

mysteriew
04-27-2006, 07:31 PM
I can agree with most of the theory. There had to be involvment of other individuals, because the George's had alibi's for the time period. And someone had to have had the child while they were checked out by police investigators. I think that may have been the Wa. couple.
As far as the time period, I would say 1-3 days away. Assuming that the George's had some involvement with whoever accepted Anna from them, I am guessing they spent some time conducting business, visiting, or accepting their kudo's for the kidnapping.
I am thinking that George B. had no obligation to be anywhere and that George W. might have used the occasion as an excuse for a "vacation".
When looking through the BFH, I know you are watching for those dates on any receipts or papers you find.

SherlockJr
04-27-2006, 09:53 PM
If Sgt Maguire had noticed they have been gone for over a week, I would hope he would have spoken with them when they returned from their trip. Has the case FILE been requested?

At that time were the George's driving a dependable car to take them on an extended trip? You can't rely on todays mapquest for accurate travel time from early 70's, roads were not like they are today.

Another thought since they both had passports and a passport was mentioned about Anna earlier in a post, could they have flown Anna out of the country?

mfmangel1
04-28-2006, 12:51 AM
If Sgt Maguire had noticed they have been gone for over a week, I would hope he would have spoken with them when they returned from their trip. Has the case FILE been requested?


I have asked about copies of the case file several times, too. It would be so helpful in putting together the pieces of the puzzle that we already have here at WS and Dr. Doogie has with the BFH.

As I have posted previously, in my personal experience, with a case that is this old, that is not being actively investigated, the family can request copies of the case file.

mfmangel1
04-28-2006, 01:05 AM
Now that we know that the Georges left town right after Anna's disappearance, I have to wonder if there is any connection between their trip and the notation found in the BFH regarding the monetary/beneficiary plan.

We now know that the note did not refer to "MONY" insurance/investment....What did it refer to?

The note is too important not to be connected in some way, considering the time frame.

Dr. Doogie
04-28-2006, 11:31 AM
I have asked about copies of the case file several times, too. It would be so helpful in putting together the pieces of the puzzle that we already have here at WS and Dr. Doogie has with the BFH.

As I have posted previously, in my personal experience, with a case that is this old, that is not being actively investigated, the family can request copies of the case file.
I have been reluctant to request the case file from the San Mateo County Sheriffs detectives because them turning over their file would represent the end of their involvement in the case. I have always hoped that we could generate enough new information that it would respark their interest and that they would actively join the search.

I probably am not being realistic in my hopes. Even when I had the information concerning a woman named Anna who was using the email address eifee_@hotmail.com, they never seemed to really care to spend a moments time following up on what seemed to be a very promising lead. (In case you are new to the thread, it turned out to not be our Anna.)

I will look into the feasibility of getting the case files. We have made more progress here on this forum than SMCS has ever accomplished. Like it or not, we are the lead investigating agency at this point. We should see those files.

smile22
04-28-2006, 01:15 PM
wait cant u ask to get copys of the files. but tell them we dont want you to close the case or anything we just want to see the files once us ws have enugh information we can go to the le and see what they will do which prolly wont be much.. in the case of janice pockett 1973 age 8 tolland connecticut.. a man who was a main suspect got mad cuz le was questioning him so he went to a lawyer that le was harrasing him. well le backed off after he got legal grounds which is sad beacuse they should have looked more into him

Dr. Doogie
04-28-2006, 06:18 PM
...in the case of janice pockett 1973 age 8 tolland connecticut.. a man who was a main suspect got mad cuz le was questioning him so he went to a lawyer that le was harrasing him. well le backed off after he got legal grounds which is sad beacuse they should have looked more into him
Sounds similar to the situation between LE and Timothy Bindner who was (is?) a suspect in the disappeareance of several young girls in the SF Bay Area in the late 1980's - early 1990's. He did many things to draw attention to himself as a suspect, then sued (and won) against the Vacaville Police department. The city had to pay him some damages for the fact that they had mentioned some evidence against him without ever charging him. Once this happened, it appears that LE interest in him waned.

mfmangel1
04-29-2006, 07:12 PM
I have been reluctant to request the case file from the San Mateo County Sheriffs detectives because them turning over their file would represent the end of their involvement in the case. I have always hoped that we could generate enough new information that it would respark their interest and that they would actively join the search.

I probably am not being realistic in my hopes. Even when I had the information concerning a woman named Anna who was using the email address eifee_@hotmail.com, they never seemed to really care to spend a moments time following up on what seemed to be a very promising lead. (In case you are new to the thread, it turned out to not be our Anna.)

I will look into the feasibility of getting the case files. We have made more progress here on this forum than SMCS has ever accomplished. Like it or not, we are the lead investigating agency at this point. We should see those files.
I truly understand the reluntance of placing LE outside of the loop, but at this point, what is the harm?

You, Dr. Doogie have done so much work, and the other sleuthers here, have many good and plausible leads....all that is needed is to fill in the blanks. I believe those blanks may be in the case file or a least the clues will be there. You have done too much work to reach a dead end.

This is one case where I truly believe in my heart that Anna is still alive and a happy ending is just waiting to happen.

SherlockJr
04-30-2006, 12:06 AM
[QUOTE
No, Kabalarianism and Kaballah are two completely different religions/areas of study. This following was taken from a messageboard on the the Kabalarians website:

Kaballah is a sacred Hebrew study of the mystical power of the alphabet. Kabalarians understand this principle in a more basic way; the application of language, through the mathematical combination of the name, creates the vehicle of consciousness. Kabalarians think that the origins of this study date much further back in antiquity than most people realize. Although Kabalarianism is not linked to the Jewish faith or Kaballah, Mr. Parker named the organized study of these principles the Kabalarian Philosophy. This is from the root word Kaballah that means, "to receive." In this case, it means to receive the wisdom of the power of the Word.


Gee, I had to copy and paste this from Part I. It would not let me "quote" since the thread is closed. But anyway, Kyresearcher found this link about George Brody/Honary President of Lincoln Park Jewish Center

www.lpjc.org (http://www.lpjc.org/)

I sent an e-mail inquiring about the late George Brody two weeks ago, and still no reply. :(

mfmangel1
05-01-2006, 03:33 PM
[QUOTE



Gee, I had to copy and paste this from Part I. It would not let me "quote" since the thread is closed. But anyway, Kyresearcher found this link about George Brody/Honary President of Lincoln Park Jewish Center

www.lpjc.org (http://www.lpjc.org/)

I sent an e-mail inquiring about the late George Brody two weeks ago, and still no reply. :(

I may really be grasping at straws here, but did you notice under "Board of Directors" the name, Hansi Braudy?

Braudy....Brody....Seems very close....Is George's correct name actually Braudy?

Perhaps I am just tired right now! :confused:

Dr. Doogie
05-01-2006, 04:21 PM
I spoke (briefly) with the possible relative of Maragaret Kukoda today. I caught her by phone at a bad time (she had two children running wild in a store) and did not have time to spend with some strange guy asking her even stranger questions.

I did however establish that she does not think that she is related to Margaret. She stated that she is from the Kukodas in Buffalo, NY, not Pennsylvania. I believe that all the families sprung from a single family in New Jersey, but it may be so far back that this woman was not familiar with the PA branch.

My next step is to contact Kukodas in Pennsylvania (including Margaret's neices and nephews) to see if Margaret's brother who is living can provide any information about George Brody. (The brother is 91 years old and I do not think that it would be appropriate to contact him directly due to his age. If he is willing and able to discuss Margaret, I will provide my contact information to his children to pass on to him.)

We march on...

HeartofTexas
05-02-2006, 10:18 AM
I realize the improbability of this man being "the" George Brody, due to how old this man would have been when "our" George Brody died, but I did find this man by the name of George D. Braudy on something called the 1910 Pennsylvania Miracode Index, who was coincidentally from Pennsylvania (isn't that where the Kukoda family was from?).


Pennsylvania 1910 Miracode Index Record
about George D Braudy

Name: George D Braudy
Birthplace: Pennsylvania
State: PA
Age: 22
Color: W;W
County: Allegheny
Relation: Boarder If the above George Braudy was 22 in 1910, that means he was born in 1888, so I truly doubt the two are one in the same.

Dr. Doogie
05-02-2006, 11:42 AM
I realize the improbability of this man being "the" George Brody, due to how old this man would have been when "our" George Brody died, but I did find this man by the name of George D. Braudy on something called the 1910 Pennsylvania Miracode Index, who was coincidentally from Pennsylvania (isn't that where the Kukoda family was from?).

If the above George Braudy was 22 in 1910, that means he was born in 1888, so I truly doubt the two are one in the same.
There was some mention that Brody was originally from Pennsylvania in the coroner's investigation of Brody's death, but I do not know where that info came from. You are correct concerning the age of this Braudy - this would have made Brody 93 at his death which does seem too old.

I did find a George Brody from PA that graduated high shool around 1941 (which would have meant a birth year of around 1923-24). However, the high school yearbook picture does not look like our Brody (broader face and much smaller ears). Also, it appears that this Brody is still alive and still living in the PA. However, I will post the picture for your opinions:

Yearbook photo
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/drdoogief/detail?.dir=aac9&.dnm=788dre2.jpg&.src=ph

Brody Portrait (for comparison)
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/drdoogief/detail?.dir=aac9&.dnm=2d6cre2.jpg&.src=ph

HeartofTexas
05-02-2006, 12:36 PM
Doogie, in your best estimate, what year would you say Brody was born in? I've found a few others whose names are spelled Brawdy that could fit, but in reading old threads on Anna's forum, I can't seem to decide how old he really was. I think at one point you said he was in his 60's in 1967... so does that mean he was born around the turn of the century? One Brawdy that I found was born in 1917, whose mother was apparently named Anna, and was from Pennsylvania. But 1917 might be too young for our Brody. Also, could you refresh my memory on his middle initial, if we know it. Thanks.

Dr. Doogie
05-02-2006, 12:48 PM
Doogie, in your best estimate, what year would you say Brody was born in? I've found a few others whose names are spelled Brawdy that could fit, but in reading old threads on Anna's forum, I can't seem to decide how old he really was. I think at one point you said he was in his 60's in 1967... so does that mean he was born around the turn of the century? One Brawdy that I found was born in 1917, whose mother was apparently named Anna, and was from Pennsylvania. But 1917 might be too young for our Brody. Also, could you refresh my memory on his middle initial, if we know it. Thanks.
This is based on nothing than my gut feeling after reviewing the photos of him, but I would say that he is ten-to-twenty years older than he claimed. In most cases, he claimed to be born in 1925 (one place 1935). I think more realistically somewhere in the window of 1905-1915. This is speculation, so if you find something promising outside these parameters, by all means, do not dismiss it. I could very well be off on my estimates.

HeartofTexas
05-02-2006, 01:11 PM
Here's what I found for the George F. Brawdy who was born in "about 1917". This information is from the 1930 Federal Census:

Name:George F Brawdy
Age: 13
Estimated birth year:abt 1917
Relation to head-of-house:Son
Parent's Name:Anna M Brawdy
Home in 1930:Pittsburgh, Allegheny, Pennsylvania
A birth year of 1917 would probably be reasonable to include in your guesstimate of 1905-1915. It would place him at age 64-65 at the time of his death in 1981. He may have been a little older than this from his pix, however.

Dr. Doogie
05-02-2006, 01:26 PM
Here's what I found for the George F. Brawdy who was born in "about 1917". This information is from the 1930 Federal Census:


A birth year of 1917 would probably be reasonable to include in your guesstimate of 1905-1915. It would place him at age 64-65 at the time of his death in 1981. He may have been a little older than this from his pix, however.
It could be him. I am hoping that my attempt to contact the Kukoda family in PA will give us some clues about Mr. Brody.

HeartofTexas
05-02-2006, 02:38 PM
I agree... it would be difficult at best to prove he was anyone we're locating now, without some kind of outside substantiation. Good luck on the PA contacts. In the meantime, I'm going to check on a few variations of the spelling on Brody because him changing the spelling of his name makes a lot of sense to me... more so than changing his entire name.

MagicRose99
05-02-2006, 04:23 PM
I took the pics into my photo software... while the mouths and noses are eerily similar, the eyes don't match up and the ears are completely wrong... and as DOA cop (in Rose Cole's thread) once told us... ears are very telling...



There was some mention that Brody was originally from Pennsylvania in the coroner's investigation of Brody's death, but I do not know where that info came from. You are correct concerning the age of this Braudy - this would have made Brody 93 at his death which does seem too old.

I did find a George Brody from PA that graduated high shool around 1941 (which would have meant a birth year of around 1923-24). However, the high school yearbook picture does not look like our Brody (broader face and much smaller ears). Also, it appears that this Brody is still alive and still living in the PA. However, I will post the picture for your opinions:

Yearbook photo
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/drdoogief/detail?.dir=aac9&.dnm=788dre2.jpg&.src=ph

Brody Portrait (for comparison)
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/drdoogief/detail?.dir=aac9&.dnm=2d6cre2.jpg&.src=ph

mbroemsen
05-04-2006, 02:20 AM
Hi am a newbie here. I found the threads on Anna yesterday and I am just overwhelmed by what I have read.... My heart goes out to anna's family and all of you, who are constantly and still searching for her.

I've read through nearly all the posts (I think) - and have accumulated some notes I would be happy to share. They are long, about 12 pages in a word document.

I was having a really hard time believing that "eiffee" was a random word, so I did some digging.... I found a boy named George with a sister "Eiffee", both that would have been born about the right time. This is from the 1910 Census in Caddo County, MO. Link to the page is below.

COSBY JOHN F. H M W 36 MO NY IL (dad)
LULA W F W 31 MO IA FL (mom)
BERNICE D F W 8 OK MO MO
LOLETA D F W 6 OK MO MO
GEORGIE D F W 4 OK MO MO
FREDA D F W 2 OK MO MO
EIFFEE D F W 6/12 OK MO MO
http://ftp.rootsweb.com/pub/usgenweb/ok/caddo/census/banrtwsp.txt (http://ftp.rootsweb.com/pub/usgenweb/ok/caddo/census/banrtwsp.txt)


There a couple of disturbing things:

1) I am unable to locate any other information about eiffee (such as a death record) and the siblings, they seem to have disapeared. I found one record for a george cobsy 1920 census in st charles MO.





2) I understand you have researched Margaret Kukoda, but when I did the same searches, I found what appears to be a false SSN.

KUKODA MARGARET
08/03/1917
F
SAN FRANCISCO(90) (http://resources.rootsweb.com/USA/CA/SanFrancisco)
08/03/1967
569-XXX-XX (http://ssdi.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/ssdi.cgi?ssn=569-42-9507)
50 yrs


she has a SSN that would seem to be from California, not pennsylvania based on the group code (first 3 digits).

545-573 == California Group

http://www.ssa.gov/employer/stateweb.htm (http://www.ssa.gov/employer/stateweb.htm)

According to usinfosearch.com, the person with that SSN is not reported dead?
************************************************** *
Maybe it is a long shot, but could George Brody be George Cosby and Margaret Kukoda be his sister Eiffee? Perhaps he really wanted the name because she died shortly before Anna was born? and that is why he felt she was reincarnated in Anna? or perhaps something happened to Eiffee? Maybe Margaret was legit, or one of the other sisters??

Why would margaret have a bad SSN on her death certificate and could GW have falsified it somehow, since he was her DR, like he did with Brody? Or is the info I found somehow incorrect?

It just seems off somehow. From what I have seen, no one has been able to link george brody to the name eiffee and perhaps here is start, I dont know.

I am so tired, but there is more. I hope it can be helpful.

mbroemsen
05-04-2006, 02:35 AM
http://www.worldlicenceplates.com/jpglps/USA_OK_GI7_1970's.jpg

These are similar to the ones that Anna's brother said seemed familiar and the cosby family had ties to Oklahoma. Just a thought.

SherlockJr
05-04-2006, 02:42 AM
Hi am a newbie here. I found the threads on Anna yesterday and I am just overwhelmed by what I have read.... My heart goes out to anna's family and all of you, who are constantly and still searching for her.

I've read through nearly all the posts (I think) - and have accumulated some notes I would be happy to share. They are long, about 12 pages in a word document.

I was having a really hard time believing that "eiffee" was a random word, so I did some digging.... I found a boy named George with a sister "Eiffee", both that would have been born about the right time. This is from the 1910 Census in Caddo County, MO. Link to the page is below.

COSBY JOHN F. H M W 36 MO NY IL (dad)
LULA W F W 31 MO IA FL (mom)
BERNICE D F W 8 OK MO MO
LOLETA D F W 6 OK MO MO
GEORGIE D F W 4 OK MO MO
FREDA D F W 2 OK MO MO
EIFFEE D F W 6/12 OK MO MO
http://ftp.rootsweb.com/pub/usgenweb/ok/caddo/census/banrtwsp.txt (http://ftp.rootsweb.com/pub/usgenweb/ok/caddo/census/banrtwsp.txt)


There a couple of disturbing things:

1) I am unable to locate any other information about eiffee (such as a death record) and the siblings, they seem to have disapeared. I found one record for a george cobsy 1920 census in st charles MO.





2) I understand you have researched Margaret Kukoda, but when I did the same searches, I found what appears to be a false SSN.

KUKODA MARGARET
08/03/1917
F
SAN FRANCISCO(90) (http://resources.rootsweb.com/USA/CA/SanFrancisco)
08/03/1967
569-XX-XXXX (http://ssdi.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/ssdi.cgi?ssn=569-42-9507)
50 yrs


she has a SSN that would seem to be from California, not pennsylvania based on the group code (first 3 digits).

545-573 == California Group

http://www.ssa.gov/employer/stateweb.htm (http://www.ssa.gov/employer/stateweb.htm)

According to usinfosearch.com, the person with that SSN is not reported dead?
************************************************** *
Maybe it is a long shot, but could George Brody be George Cosby and Margaret Kukoda be his sister Eiffee? Perhaps he really wanted the name because she died shortly before Anna was born? and that is why he felt she was reincarnated in Anna? or perhaps something happened to Eiffee? Maybe Margaret was legit, or one of the other sisters??

Why would margaret have a bad SSN on her death certificate and could GW have falsified it somehow, since he was her DR, like he did with Brody? Or is the info I found somehow incorrect?

It just seems off somehow. From what I have seen, no one has been able to link george brody to the name eiffee and perhaps here is start, I dont know.

I am so tired, but there is more. I hope it can be helpful.
Welcome mbroemsen, you got my head spining now. Is the Georgie listed in the Census a female-white? It looks like they are all females. I may be wrong about that. And Effie was born in 1909-1910 being 6months old on the 1910 census. According to death record, she was born in 1917. However, you raise a good point about the ssn still supposedly in use today. Could that have been GB's ssn? Don't stop now, you're off to a good start! :)

mbroemsen
05-04-2006, 02:57 AM
I guess I missed the "F" on georgie that would make her female, and are the ages in months or years? I read that as 6 1/2 years, etc? I am not totally familiar. Even if that is not our george, perhaps he knew her?

kyresearcher
05-04-2006, 02:58 AM
DrDoogie, or anyone else who remembers,will you please refresh my memory of the birthdate of GB in the BFH. I know I read it but can't find it. It was on a prescription or something from the drug store. I know that we all agreed that he probably wasn't born in 1935 but maybe the month and date is correct. I need it if someone would provide it for me....thanks

mbroemsen
05-04-2006, 03:00 AM
Anna’s mom mentioned that Brody “was in his 60s” when he met GW, which was around the time of Anna’s birth. That would put Brody’s birth year around 1907 (if he was exactly 60)





Now, Dr. Doogie said (post #117) “On July 30th, 1970, Waters presented it Brody as a "birthday gift" (remember, Brody claimed to have been born August 15th, 1925).”

p.s. does anyone know how to change the username so its not my email addy?

SherlockJr
05-04-2006, 03:04 AM
Anna’s mom mentioned that Brody “was in his 60s” when he met GW, which was around the time of Anna’s birth. That would put Brody’s birth year around 1907 (if he was exactly 60)





Now, Dr. Doogie said (post #117) “On July 30th, 1970, Waters presented it Brody as a "birthday gift" (remember, Brody claimed to have been born August 15th, 1925).”
You are quick mb, and a very good note taker. :)

kyresearcher
05-04-2006, 03:09 AM
I don't know if Ca. probate files are public or private. If someone could access Margaret Kukoda's file from 1967 and see who was appointed executor of her estate and see who her moneys or property was distributed to it might hold some important info. If GB lived with her for years he may have had the authority to handle her affairs when she died, since she had no children. If he was a brother and signed any of the papers then the signatures could be compared with any writing of GB.

kyresearcher
05-04-2006, 03:16 AM
Thanks MB, that was just what I was looking for.