Theory #2: Family Abduction by George Waters with George Brody and/or Associates

[Dr. Doogie]

This thread will be for discussion concerning possible involvement by George Waters (Anna's birthfather) and his mentor George Brody. I will copy forward the relevant material from the previous thread and re-post it her in a condensed form.

[Dr. Doogie]

On 11/16/2005, Dr. Doogie posted:

"Anna's birth father was named George Henry Waters. He married Michaele B. in 1964 in New York City while attending Columbia Medical School. The family moved to San Francisco for him to complete his residency where Anna was born September 25, 1967.



Around the time of Anna's birth, George Waters met an older man by the name of George Brody (probably an alias). Brody was a man in his sixties at that time who immediately started to manipulate Waters and his family into his small cult of personality. Marital strains caused by Brody's manipulation and increasingly paranoid behavior by Waters led to Anna's parents divorcing shortly after her birth.



Although Waters came from a well-to-do family and was a physician working at three different facilities, he moved into a seedy hotel in the Tenderloin district of San Francisco with Brody as his roommate. Brody, who appears to have never worked a day in his life, was completely supported financially by Waters. Waters appears to have not made any moves or decisions with the full approval of Brody. (It should be clarified that even though these were two adult men living in very close arrangements, there has never been any evidence or hint that their relationship was sexual. It appeared to be more a twisted version of guru and disciple.)



Brody showed an disturbing level of interest in Anna. He believed that Anna was the reincarnation of a woman that Brody had lived with for several decades (this despite the fact that Anna was born before the woman in question had died). At Brody's and Water's insistence, the mother agreed to let Anna's name be legally changed, adding the nonsense word "Eifee" as middle name. This was demanded by Brody so that Anna's name and his name would "numerologically" add up to the same number.


In the few years after Anna's birth, George's behavior became more irrational: demanding money from his family, complaints to Anna's mother concerning what was a small child support payment for Anna, crazy accusations toward any and all who used to be his friends. Waters was finally diagnosed as a paranoid-schizophrenic. His family decided against having him committed (even though he had shown himself to be a danger to himself and others) in an effort to let him maintain his doctor's license.

Water's devotion to Brody and Brody's unusual attention to Anna lead back to the sighting of "a young man and an old man" driving a white panel truck in the vicinity of Anna's disappearance. Waters was in his thirties while Brody was in his seventies. Interestingly, after Anna's disappearance, Waters never contacted the mother to see what had happened or to offer condolences. His only known reaction was to contact his attorney to see if he could discontinue his child support payments.

Attached is a picture of George Waters circa 1964:
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/drdoo...9&.dnm=43ea.jpg (http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/drdoogief/detail?.dir=aac9&.dnm=43ea.jpg)

Attached is a picture of George Brody from 1974:
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/drdoo...94f.jpg&.src=ph (http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/drdoogief/detail?.dir=aac9&.dnm=b94f.jpg&.src=ph)

[Dr. Doogie]

On 11/18/05, Dr. Doogie posted:

It should be stated that both LE and a very respected private investigator who examined Waters and Brody concluded that they could find no direct evidence that they had anything to do with Anna's disappearance. However, absence of evidence is not the same as innocence. And both LE and the PI agreed that the two Georges were extremely odd and capable of doing crazy things.

Brody developed throat cancer and was treated by Waters (who was a physician). Brody died Christmas Eve 1981. His death certificate may have been the only official piece of paperwork that ever existed on Brody - it showed no known birth date, no known relatives and no social security number.

After the death of Brody, Waters went into a frenzy of activity. He started destroying any paperwork or personal information pertaining to himself, Brody or Anna. The few items that he did not destroy were items that were not readily accessible such as safe deposit boxes.

Approximately two weeks after the death of Brody, Waters killed himself by drinking posion while in his hotel room. His death certificate shows a date of January 7, 1982, but this is speculation by the SF Coroner because Waters' body was not discovered until approximately a week after his suicide.

[Dr. Doogie]

I have come up with a couple of ideas to help find out who George Brody actually is. One is to contact the family members of the woman that he lived with before Waters. She had a very unique last name and there are some people with the same name living in the Bay area, so I assume that they are relatives of hers. My other thought is to try and find a woman that GW worked with named Seka that Brody attempted to woo into becoming a follower. I am going to start with Water's workplace and the doctors who I can identify from the "Box from Hell" that knew Waters. They may be able to give me a last name for this Seka. I will keep you all posted.

[kyresearcher]

DrDoogie, if you are able to contact any of the dr's that GW worked with is there a possibility that you could see if they still have records of GW clients? I am thinking that maybe GB was a patient of his and if so that you might be able to get some info from his records. I know they are confidential but since he is deceased maybe they could/would give you a S.S# or the next of kin that he listed to contact in case of emergency. If they met at the clinic as dr/patient his paper work would already have been filled out and just maybe he gave a name, address or phone # of who to contact. Just an idea..........

[kyresearcher]

I know all your sleuthers will think I have lost my mind, but something has just come to me. With GB obsession of names, and him probably having an alias, could we be searching all this wrong. What if he was born Brody George and wanted his and GW's first names to be the same so he just reversed it. Look how he insisted that GW and Anns's mom add Eefie to Anna's name so it would match his name numerically and would be the same as the lady he knew. I have even thought that maybe he came to this country as an imigrant. I have searched the list of imigrants who came to the US at Ellis Island, thinking maybe he is from another country. Annasmom we are still trying, I think of her all the time and hope we can help you in someway to find answers.

[Annasmom]

I know all your sleuthers will think I have lost my mind, but something has just come to me. With GB obsession of names, and him probably having an alias, could we be searching all this wrong. What if he was born Brody George and wanted his and GW's first names to be the same so he just reversed it. Look how he insisted that GW and Anns's mom add Eefie to Anna's name so it would match his name numerically and would be the same as the lady he knew. I have even thought that maybe he came to this country as an imigrant. I have searched the list of imigrants who came to the US at Ellis Island, thinking maybe he is from another country. Annasmom we are still trying, I think of her all the time and hope we can help you in someway to find answers.Thank you, kyresearcher. I was wondering where everybody went. Brainstorming is always a good thing.

[mjak]

Annasmom, I am still here. Not a day goes by that I do not think of Anna's
plight. I wish I had some brilliant ideas to contrubte to this thread but unforunitly I don't. I would like to hear from Anna's kindergarden teacher on why she believes Anna was kidnapped. Has she every disclosed her reasons to you? Also maybe you have mentioned this before but how did your husband meet George Brody?

mjak

[Annasmom]

Annasmom, I am still here. Not a day goes by that I do not think of Anna's
plight. I wish I had some brilliant ideas to contrubte to this thread but unforunitly I don't. I would like to hear from Anna's kindergarden teacher on why she believes Anna was kidnapped. Has she every disclosed her reasons to you? Also maybe you have mentioned this before but how did your husband meet George Brody?

mjak
Thank you, Mjak. The woman Brody lived with was a patient of George Waters. Apparently it was after she died that the two Georges moved in together.

[Dr. Doogie]

Here are some new photos of George Brody:

Younger Brody
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/drdoogief/detail?.dir=aac9&.dnm=94e8scd.jpg

Brody 1974
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/drdoogief/detail?.dir=aac9&.dnm=cec8scd.jpg&.src=ph

Here are the links to the previous pics of Brody:

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/drdoogief/detail?.dir=aac9&.dnm=b94f.jpg

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/drdoogief/detail?.dir=aac9&.dnm=a9dfscd.jpg

Here is the link to a previous pic of George Waters:

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/drdoogief/detail?.dir=aac9&.dnm=43ea.jpg

[mjak]

I just did some snooping around in the cenus database and I found a George Brody listed as living in califronia in the 1920 census. He has his idenitfication listed as Lodger in the home. It says he was born in Massachusets and his father was born in Ireland. His employent is listed as clerk in a soda plant. He lists his age as 26, which I believe would make him 79 years old in 1973. Could this be our George Brody. Annasmom do you recall anything about him being of Irish? heritage?

mjak

[kyresearcher]

DrDoogie, thanks for posting the photos, great work! On the "younger picture of GB" it shows a studio name, can you tell us what it says, I can't read it. Maybe that would give us an idea to what location he was in when it was taken. Thanks

[mfmangel1]

It looks as though the portrait was done at the studio of
"Marguerite Kilroy" in San Francisco....from what I can tell.

I find his inscription odd....Then again, what about George wasn't?:(

[mjak]

I just did some snooping around in the cenus database and I found a George Brody listed as living in califronia in the 1920 census. He has his idenitfication listed as Lodger in the home. It says he was born in Massachusets and his father was born in Ireland. His employent is listed as clerk in a soda plant. He lists his age as 26, which I believe would make him 79 years old in 1973. Could this be our George Brody. Annasmom do you recall anything about him being of Irish? heritage?

mjak

Unfortuitly, the census has only gotten as far as the 1930 census online.
so I can't follow this man's trail. The 1930 census does not show him but I believe it is still incomplete at this time. When I go to work tomorrow, I will call
my census reserch contacts and see if I can get the rest of the census accessed.

mjak

[mjak]

It looks as though the portrait was done at the studio of
"Marguerite Kilroy" in San Francisco....from what I can tell.

I find his inscription odd....Then again, what about George wasn't?:(
Not such an odd inscription if he was a theatrical romantic and gave
this picture to a girlfriend.

mjak

[Annasmom]

I just did some snooping around in the cenus database and I found a George Brody listed as living in califronia in the 1920 census. He has his idenitfication listed as Lodger in the home. It says he was born in Massachusets and his father was born in Ireland. His employent is listed as clerk in a soda plant. He lists his age as 26, which I believe would make him 79 years old in 1973. Could this be our George Brody. Annasmom do you recall anything about him being of Irish? heritage?

mjak
He was always totally secretive about his background, so he never mentioned being of Irish heritage, but it seems entirely possible. And the age seems about right, too. I wonder if there was really a soda plant in San Francisco in 1920.

[Annasmom]

It looks as though the portrait was done at the studio of
"Marguerite Kilroy" in San Francisco....from what I can tell.

I find his inscription odd....Then again, what about George wasn't?:(
There was a photograph by this same photographer listed on e-bay with a date of December 1951. The matting seemed similar to this one of Brody. If he was living in San Francisco some 23 years before Anna disappeared in 1973, there absolutely has to be someone in the area who knows something about him.

[mjak]

He was always totally secretive about his background, so he never mentioned being of Irish heritage, but it seems entirely possible. And the age seems about right, too. I wonder if there was really a soda plant in San Francisco in 1920.
According to the information I found "American Trona" was a company that
ran a soda ash plant in california in the early 20 th century. It was the only soda
ash plant in california. Maybe this is where he worked?

mjak

[mjak]

Okay, I got some more information off the 1920 census. It is not so easy to read!!
Mr. George W. Brody was living in Cartago in the county of INYO ? in california. I am not familiar with the State of California so this does not mean anything to me. His father is listed as being in Missouri not massachustes and I originaly thought. Also everyone listed on this page of this census was employed in this Soda Plant.

mjak

[Annasmom]

Okay, I got some more information off the 1920 census. It is not so easy to read!!
Mr. George W. Brody was living in Cartago in the county of INYO ? in california. I am not familiar with the State of California so this does not mean anything to me. His father is listed as being in Missouri not massachustes and I originaly thought. Also everyone listed on this page of this census was employed in this Soda Plant.

mjak Inyo County is pretty far away from San Francisco. There is a Searles Valley Historical Association which has information on American Trona (which produced potash and borax and is still operating after several name changes.) Somehow I would take Brody to be a city boy rather than a clerk in a Central Valley California chemical plant, but you never know. What amazes me is how many George Brodys have turned up. I would never take that to be a common name.

[kyresearcher]

Inyo County is pretty far away from San Francisco. There is a Searles Valley Historical Association which has information on American Trona (which produced potash and borax and is still operating after several name changes.) Somehow I would take Brody to be a city boy rather than a clerk in a Central Valley California chemical plant, but you never know. What amazes me is how many George Brodys have turned up. I would never take that to be a common name. Annasmom, there are lots of George Brodys, some spelling their names differently. I also think of him as a city boy, not the kind who would want to get his suit dirty, bet he never worked a day in his life, just sponged off people. JMHO

[kyresearcher]

I have found GW's physican/surgeons license and it lists his p.o. box 5889, San Francisco, Ca 94101 and his medical license #G13689. It may have been when he was married tho, and not when he and GB were living together. It says his status is Licensee deceased so it may have been when he and the other George was together. Don't know if DrDoogie has that info, just thought I would throw it in.

[Dr. Doogie]

I have found GW's physican/surgeons license and it lists his p.o. box 5889, San Francisco, Ca 94101 and his medical license #G13689. It may have been when he was married tho, and not when he and GB were living together. It says his status is Licensee deceased so it may have been when he and the other George was together. Don't know if DrDoogie has that info, just thought I would throw it in.That P.O. Box number seems to be GW's primary source for receiving mail, though he did receive some mail through his places of employment. He seems to have had this P.O. Box from shortly after his separation from Annasmom in the late 1960's until his death in 1981.

[Dr. Doogie]

Not such an odd inscription if he was a theatrical romantic and gave
this picture to a girlfriend.

mjak
Weirdly enough, the inscription seems to have been from Brody to Waters. The level of devotion that Waters showed for Brody was frightening. There was an exchange of letters between the two (before they resided together) where Waters asks Brody for permission to "emulate" him. Brody responded that he was pleased with the request and that Waters could now give Brody "gifts" as a sign of his devotion.

[SherlockJr]

If Brody is found in 1920 Census being 26 years old. That would make his birth 1894. Has anyone been able to locate any death records? Is his SSN listed anywhere in the BFH?

[Dr. Doogie]

If Brody is found in 1920 Census being 26 years old. That would make his birth 1894. Has anyone been able to locate any death records? Is his SSN listed anywhere in the BFH?
There is no SSN listed in any paperwork associated with GB. I have his death certificate and it lists SSN unknown.

[SherlockJr]

I have found Anna Brody, was born 5/15/1894. Died on 4/14/73 social security number 562-20-3243 acquired in CA. How difficult would it be to give Anna a ssn belonging to George Brody? No questions asked especially if Dr. George Waters signed the records.



There is no SSN listed in any paperwork associated with GB. I have his death certificate and it lists SSN unknown.

[mysteriew]

If Brody is found in 1920 Census being 26 years old. That would make his birth 1894. Has anyone been able to locate any death records? Is his SSN listed anywhere in the BFH?

I have found Anna Brody, was born 5/15/1894. Died on 4/14/73 social security number 562-20-3243 acquired in CA. How difficult would it be to give Anna a ssn belonging to George Brody? No questions asked especially if Dr. George Waters signed the records.

I will admit this is pretty out there. But could the reason that George B. cannot be found officially- be because he was born Anna B? Could he have been born a female, yet later begun living as a male? Could George B. have been a transexual? It was the 70's, a time of sexual freedom, gays were starting to come out of the closet, yet there were still a lot of negative attitudes. And transexuals were still not openly talked about in most circles.

One thing that has always bugged me, was the fact that the two George's cohabitated in a small rented room, not an apartment and not two separate rooms. Something they would not have had to do, as George W.'s income alone would have been sufficient to rent two of those rooms. There could have been a homosexual relationship between the two, but that hasn't become apparent as they were both flirting with waitresses.
Yet if the two of them knew the other was the opposite sex, that may have allowed them to bypass to themselves the whole two guys living together attitude.
As a doctor George W. could have become privy to George B.'s secret, been intrigued, then become interested in "George" as a person. That may have led to the whole protective attitude, and to the fact that he needed to support "him" both emotionally and financially.

[Dr. Doogie]

I will admit this is pretty out there. But could the reason that George B. cannot be found officially- be because he was born Anna B? Could he have been born a female, yet later begun living as a male? Could George B. have been a transexual? It was the 70's, a time of sexual freedom, gays were starting to come out of the closet, yet there were still a lot of negative attitudes. And transexuals were still not openly talked about in most circles.

One thing that has always bugged me, was the fact that the two George's cohabitated in a small rented room, not an apartment and not two separate rooms. Something they would not have had to do, as George W.'s income alone would have been sufficient to rent two of those rooms. There could have been a homosexual relationship between the two, but that hasn't become apparent as they were both flirting with waitresses.
Yet if the two of them knew the other was the opposite sex, that may have allowed them to bypass to themselves the whole two guys living together attitude.
As a doctor George W. could have become privy to George B.'s secret, been intrigued, then become interested in "George" as a person. That may have led to the whole protective attitude, and to the fact that he needed to support "him" both emotionally and financially.
You had me thinking there for a bit, MV. The picture I just posted of a younger GB does have a more feminine look to it than his later pictures. But the more I thought about it, I would assume that as the doctors other than GW examined and treated GB for his cancer, at some point they would have done a "dingus count". Anything less than a quantity of one and they would have reflected that in their medical charts and listed GB as female for medical reasons. Since the paperwork does not reflect that, I think that he was (and always was) a male.

One clarification (and I believe that I may have started this confusion by not being thorough in my posts): GW and GB had two rooms in the same hotel. They appeared to have used both, though they seemed to always be together in one of the rooms. They also had a third room at a different hotel - unfortunately, this room was not discovered for a few years after Anna's disappearance. It would have been interesting to see what was happening in that room on January 16th, 1967.

[mysteriew]

Like I said, it was pretty out there. But I am learning not to totally discount the "out there" thoughts, as people can be pretty bizarre.
But the point about the Doctors..... Doctors are bound by confidentiality and probably wouldn't have released that info unless under a suponea anyway. The fact that they worked with GW, might also have contributed to their holding the secret close. And since GW was the one to complete the paperwork at the time of death, they may have considered it just one of those secrets that was harmless and so even knowing, they may not have corrected it.

[SherlockJr]

I shook my head while reading your post. I was not suggesting for a minute that GB was a woman. I could not find anything else on this Anna Brody. If someone has access to census records, please help me out. I posted the information fearing the two George's had done something to Anna in 1973 and used George's SSN on her death record. Which would explain his death record as an unknown ssn. Certainly they couldn't use the same number twice, that would raise suspicion. So what if GB will no long collect SS checks, he's got GW to support him now.




I will admit this is pretty out there. But could the reason that George B. cannot be found officially- be because he was born Anna B? Could he have been born a female, yet later begun living as a male? Could George B. have been a transexual? It was the 70's, a time of sexual freedom, gays were starting to come out of the closet, yet there were still a lot of negative attitudes. And transexuals were still not openly talked about in most circles.

One thing that has always bugged me, was the fact that the two George's cohabitated in a small rented room, not an apartment and not two separate rooms. Something they would not have had to do, as George W.'s income alone would have been sufficient to rent two of those rooms. There could have been a homosexual relationship between the two, but that hasn't become apparent as they were both flirting with waitresses.
Yet if the two of them knew the other was the opposite sex, that may have allowed them to bypass to themselves the whole two guys living together attitude.
As a doctor George W. could have become privy to George B.'s secret, been intrigued, then become interested in "George" as a person. That may have led to the whole protective attitude, and to the fact that he needed to support "him" both emotionally and financially.

[Dr. Doogie]

If the two Georges did something awful to Anna (which I do not believe), I do not think that there would have been any sort of paper trail requiring a SSN. That being said, neither of the two suggestions (that they used GBs SSN or that GB could have been a transexual) is that crazy. Believe me, there is weirder stuff than that in the Box from Hell.

The level of manipulation that Brody held over GW was truly frightening. Waters systematically drove away every friend and family member (including Annasmom) by writing letters to them that were obviously either dictated or influenced by Brody - the same idiosyncracies in speech, theme, etc. Brody wanted Waters for himself and himself alone. That alone shows a reasonable possible motive for their involvement in Anna's disappearance.

[kyresearcher]

Here I go "brainstorming" again. I do not know how to cut and paste but I went to www.ssdi.rootsweb.com (http://www.ssdi.rootsweb.com) and checked on social security deaths. I am thinking George may be GB first name so I only enter first name (george) San Francisco-Ca. and death month (12) and year (1981) I find 9 deaths listed for George with the info I stated. All of them had a different last name. I then went into Ca. death records and ran all of them. I found all but 1 listed in the records. There are 2 George Thompson, but the first one on list with B/D 9-09-1900 and DOD 12-1981 would not come up on Ca. death records. My thinking is-----GB died and his death certificate listed what he wanted GW to list but then after his death GW made up an another death certificate for the Social Security administration with the correct info. on it and sent it to them. This list has the social security numbers listed on them. I know all you good researchers can find out about this George Thompson. The only other one that was close in day of 12-24-81 is George Prouty. Would someone else check this out and see what you think? Do we know for sure that GB died on the 24th of Dec?

[Dr. Doogie]

But the point about the Doctors..... Doctors are bound by confidentiality and probably wouldn't have released that info unless under a suponea anyway. The fact that they worked with GW, might also have contributed to their holding the secret close. And since GW was the one to complete the paperwork at the time of death, they may have considered it just one of those secrets that was harmless and so even knowing, they may not have corrected it.Waters' relationship with his co-workers was strained at best. Brody received treatment at the clinic that Waters worked at. GW's mental condition had deteriated at this point to random shouting matches with his peers, reprimands from his superiors for questionable medical treatments and poor work ethics. Shortly before both Brody and Waters died, Waters was fired from the clinic. I suspect (be cannot say for sure) that the fellow doctor's at the clinic would not have covered for such a secret. I do plan on contacting any surviving co-workers of Waters and see if they can shed any light on Brody and the last days of Waters.

[kyresearcher]

Adding to my post #33- I was searching for the George Thompson again in Ca. death records and did find him, his birth date is different on the social security site that I found . This man died 12-11-81, and the social security #'s match so guess this isn't any help, but someone might want to still look at the info I found, who knows it might shed some light on who GB really is. I am trying so hard to help Annasmom, as all of you are.

[mjak]

Is it possible the two George's were using drugs?

mjak

[spikydragon]

The only other one that was close in day of 12-24-81 is George Prouty.

I'm sure it's just coincidence, but Prouty looks/sounds an awful lot like Brody...

[Dr. Doogie]

I have located George Waters' former supervisor at the clinic that he worked from 1970 until Feb. 1981. I will try and make contact with him today. I hope to accomplish two things: 1) see if he knows of any thing that he may have seen that would bolster the hypothesis that the GW was involved in Anna's disappearance, and 2) see if I can get a last name for "Seka", a co-worker of GW's that Brody attempted to draw under his influence. I would like to contact Seka and see what she knows about Brody.

I will post what I find...

[shadowangel]

*OFF-TOPIC*
Dr Doogie-Your mailbox is full.

[Dr. Doogie]

Is it possible the two George's were using drugs?

mjak
I guess it is possible, but I am not aware of any evidence to that effect. Waters was diagnosed as a paranoid-schizophrenic, but I have not even come across any receipts or prescriptions to indicate that he was taking any medications to control his disease. Waters was active in the anti-war effort in the late 1960's and drugs were certainly available in the circles that he ran, but there is no evidence that I am aware of that he ever used them. Annasmom could probably give a definitive answer to this for the time period that they were married.

[HeartofTexas]

I am in NO WAY insinuating that George Waters ever did drugs but I worked as a volunteer with schizophrenic patients for 3 years in the 90's... and many of the doctors I talked with felt that schizophrenia was oftentimes triggered by drug use. IOW, the gene will often lay dormant if drugs are not used. I remember once there were identical twins ... one was schizophrenic and the other one wasn't, but just basically took care of his brother. The doctor explained to me that that both probably carried the gene that carried the schizophrenic trait but only one of the brothers had done drugs, which activated it. I haven't done any real research on schizophrenia so don't know that the above are facts... but it could allude to Dr. Waters having done drugs in college, or around that time. Again, I am NOT the last word on schizophrenia.

[azure]

If the two Georges did something awful to Anna (which I do not believe)...

Dr. Doogie, does this mean that you don't believe that the two Georges were involved in Anna's disappearance at all? Or simply that you don't think that they would have killed her?

Also, I know you're incredibly busy, but is there anything interesting in the BFH that we don't know about? Also, any updates on the co-worker front?

It seems from the portrait photo that we can presume that GB was in the San Francisco area since at least 1950(?). I'm in favor of contacting the portrait studio, which, in the unlikely case they still had records that old, could tell us at the very least if GB was still GB that long ago. Other than that, what other sleuthing can we do, Websleuthers, given that we have a location for him for a substantial chunk of time?

Kelly

[Dr. Doogie]

Dr. Doogie, does this mean that you don't believe that the two Georges were involved in Anna's disappearance at all? Or simply that you don't think that they would have killed her?
I do not believe that they killed her. In discussions with Annasmom, she emphasised that the two Georges always felt that they were doing good in the world. She does not feel that they would have meant "harm" to Anna - they are more likely to have convinced themselves that Anna was in some sort of danger and would be better off not with Annasmom. Remember, the disappearance came within a couple of months of GW being informed that Annasmom had married Joe Ford and that GW could discontinue his alimony payments. This may very well have set into nmotion a plot to "save" Anna from Annasmom (who GW had convinced himself was "evil") and this new husband that he had probably concocted some sort of evilness on his part also.

Also, I know you're incredibly busy, but is there anything interesting in the BFH that we don't know about? Also, any updates on the co-worker front?
I am having to digest the contents of the Box from Hell in small bites. It is the documentation of a descent into insanity for a man who could have been valuable to the world. Trying to absorb it all at once will make my head spin. Also, analysing the contents thoroughly takes time - I want to make sure that I am not overlooking any clues that are not obvious.

I did talk to the clinic where GW's former supervisor worked and got an email address to send my questions to her. I sent the email this afternoon, but it came back as undeliverable. I will recontact the clinic and get the correct address, and then resend it tomorrow.


It seems from the portrait photo that we can presume that GB was in the San Francisco area since at least 1950(?). I'm in favor of contacting the portrait studio, which, in the unlikely case they still had records that old, could tell us at the very least if GB was still GB that long ago. Other than that, what other sleuthing can we do, Websleuthers, given that we have a location for him for a substantial chunk of time?
I think that you are correct. We had previously been able to trace him back as far as the early 1960's, but it looks like he was around earlier than that. Any research ideas from the WSers out there would be appreciated. As far as contacting the studio, if it is still in business, I doubt that they would have records back 50 years of individual transactions (remember, Bank of America didn't even maintain safe deposit box records back to the 1970's). It is a good idea and may be worth a try, but I am not optimistic.

[Annasmom]

Is it possible the two George's were using drugs?

mjakIf you are thinking this might be where all the money went, I can tell you I'm certain it didn't go to drugs. In fact, considering that GW's jobs were part-time, all those insurance policies, rent on three hotel rooms, paying off student loans, and GB's department store bills probably ate up a lot of it. I can tell you that GW took LSD on one occasion when it was not yet illegal. He had several patients who had taken it many times, and he was curious about it. Another doctor was standing by at the time. As for Brody, I'd be very surprised
if he ever even took aspirin, though he did have a taste for expensive brandy. As for triggering a latent schizophrenic tendency, certainly it's possible, but there's also the fact that GW was severely malnourished in childhood while in a concentration camp in the Philippines.

[Shadow205]

The only thing that I found when looking for the photographer was an old picture for sale on ebay by the same studio.

[Dr. Doogie]

I heard back from GW's supervisor and she stated that she new nothing about his personal life. He worked a night shift when there were no supervisors around and only one other doctor on duty. She also did not recall Brody being a patient or a Seka working for the clinic. Seka must have been a co-worker at one of the other jobs that GW had.

So, no new info from this line of investigation. On to the next one...

[azure]

I heard back from GW's supervisor and she stated that she new nothing about his personal life. He worked a night shift when there were no supervisors around and only one other doctor on duty. She also did not recall Brody being a patient or a Seka working for the clinic. Seka must have been a co-worker at one of the other jobs that GW had.

So, no new info from this line of investigation. On to the next one...

Somehow this doesn't surprise me. If GW was so secretive and erratic with his behavior with Annasmom and in public with only complete strangers around, it seems unlikely that he'd tell his co-workers very much about his life.

Seka seems to be the one to find, as well as any family members or close friends of GB's deceased girlfriend. These people may hold some clues about the Georges' lifestyles that could help Anna's case.

Kelly

[laini]

Dr. Doogie,

This may have already been discussed. I ran across an internet discussion that mentioned Brody and GW on zodiackiller.com message board. (I was looking up "eifee" and it came up). I saw your name mentioned there, also. Do you think there was any connection between Brody and those crimes? Just curious.

[Dr. Doogie]

Dr. Doogie,

This may have already been discussed. I ran across an internet discussion that mentioned Brody and GW on zodiackiller.com message board. (I was looking up "eifee" and it came up). I saw your name mentioned there, also. Do you think there was any connection between Brody and those crimes? Just curious.
The info on Zodiackiller.com was copied from this forum and reposted there. A man by the name of George Waters was a bartender who knew and alledgedly "stalked" Darlene Ferrin, one of the Zodiac victims. It was suspected that he could have been the Zodiac. Our George Waters is a completely different GW. Once I heard about that post, I posted a correction and that was the end of that line of investigation.

[smile22]

do u think seka could have been like a fake name or a nickname?

[Dr. Doogie]

do u think seka could have been like a fake name or a nickname?
It's possible, but it is what her parents called her - based on correspondence between Brody and her parents.

[gardenmom]

There is a Seka living in Sacramento that would be about 76 years old, could this be her? I just went to ancestry.com and typed in the first name only and CA.

[Dr. Doogie]

There is a Seka living in Sacramento that would be about 76 years old, could this be her? I just went to ancestry.com and typed in the first name only and CA.
Without anything to go on but my gut, I imagine Seka to be younger than that. I believe she was probably either an office worker or nurses aide in her twenties during the 1970's, which would make her in her fifties now. All of this could be completely wrong speculation on my part and this woman is worthy of a better look.

I work in Sacramento and can follow up on this. Gardenmom, please PM me the details and I will look into this. Thanks for your efforts!

[Dr. Doogie]

By the way, if anyone does a Google search for "Seka", be forwarned that there also was a porno actress in the 1970's-1980's by that same name. That is why you will get millions of hits! (And some very interesting photos...)

[annemc2]

uh, yeah, Doogie - I figured that out reeeeal quick! :blushing:

[mfmangel1]

It's possible, but it is what her parents called her - based on correspondence between Brody and her parents.
Is there any info that would enable us to locate her parents?

[mfmangel1]

Dr. Doogie-

Does the BFH shed any light on any other members of Brody's "cult"?

Since Brody and Waters believed that Annasmom and Joe Ford were a detriment to Anna (it makes me ill to write that!), my instinct, for what it is worth, tells me that they would have placed Anna somewhere that they could have maintained contact
with her new "family" and they would not have done her harm.

Who else did Brody control at some point in time?

[Dr. Doogie]

Who else did Brody control? That is the $64,000 question. Perhaps nobody, but it does appear that he attempted to expand his influence beyond just GW by wooing this Seka. I have not been able to establish that she considered the two Georges as anything other than friends or acquaintences...yet.

One point of clarification: I have used the word "cult" to describe Brody and his influence. This is not exactly the right word because it implies that there was some sort of organized group. I meant "cult" to demonstrate the type of mind-control that Brody seemed to use to manipulate Waters. Perhaps the correct analogy is "Rasputin-like". Brody created a scenario where Waters did not do or think anything without seeking the guidance and approval of Brody - much like the Czar of Russia's family did with Rasputin. And like Rasputin, Brody used that influence to his own advantage.

[Dr. Doogie]

Is there any info that would enable us to locate her parents?
Without a last name, no. I know that they resided in Belgrade, Yugoslavia in the 1970's when she visited them and sent a postcard to the Georges. A Zabasearch for Seka's in the U.S. turns up almost exclusively names that seem to be Croation / Serbian / Bosnian (all the former Yugoslavia).

The Seka who lives in Sacramento (age 71) was married (recently widowed) and had a son in the 1970's, so it is unlikely that she could be the Seka that we are searching for - the nature of the communications between her and the Georges makes me believe that she was relatively young and not married.

[mfmangel1]

Sorry....I didn't mean to imply the situation was a cult at we know it. That is why I used quotation marks.


This case just has me doing this every day::banghead:

I can't imagine how Annasmom, her family and you must feel at this point. My heart just breaks for everyone. :(

[mfmangel1]

It is my understanding that Brody and Waters met while Waters was treating the woman that Brody was living with at the time.

I have to wonder what the weakness was that Brody saw in Waters that he felt he would be able to manipulate. Most people would view a doctor as being above them, especially back in the 1960's. Most people would not view a doctor as a potential mark or victim, especially when the doctor is treating someone they are involved with.

I am in no way saying that victims are at fault when they are used, but usually the con preys on certain weaknesses and vulnerabilities that they observe in the potential mark.

Conmen make me ill! :mad:

[Annasmom]

It is my understanding that Brody and Waters met while Waters was treating the woman that Brody was living with at the time.

I have to wonder what the weakness was that Brody saw in Waters that he felt he would be able to manipulate. Most people would view a doctor as being above them, especially back in the 1960's. Most people would not view a doctor as a potential mark or victim, especially when the doctor is treating someone they are involved with.

I am in no way saying that victims are at fault when they are used, but usually the con preys on certain weaknesses and vulnerabilities that they observe in the potential mark.

Conmen make me ill! :mad:
Mfmangel1: I think George Brody himself believed all the stuff he was trying to sell Dr. Waters. He really thought he was some kind of messiah, and I think he instantly recognized someone who desperately wanted to believe in such a thing and to be told what to do. Now, don't beat your head against the wall, angel1. We're all fine out here, and still looking!

[Dr. Doogie]

Quote:
Originally Posted by kyresearcher
DrDoogie, the name Seka that you were referring to, did you see it spelled out or did someone just say the name to you and that is the way the spelling sounded to you? This inquiry has something to do with the name I sent you on the unclaimed money for Anna.

I have several letters between Seka and the two Georges where she signs her name as Seka. There also is a letter written by Brody to Seka's family where he refers to her as Seka, so that seems to be her proper name.

(As I write this, it dawns on me that Brody may have addressed the letter to "Mr. & Mrs. ________". Heck, I may know the last name. Let me check right now...)

[Dr. Doogie]

No luck - Brody addressed the letters to her family as "Dear Friends". No address other than references to "Beograd".

I rereading the correspondence, it appears that Seka first arrived in San Francisco from Yugoslavia in 1976. Brody refers to her also by a nickname of "Little Tito". Shortly after her arrival, it appears that she began to drift away from Brody's influence, causing him to warn her about the emotional damage that would occur to her if he were to break ties with her (the ego of this man was stunning).

[Dr. Doogie]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Doogie
As I continue to review the contents of the Box From Hell, I have come across a letter where GW was attempting to be hired at a clinic for alcohol treatment. I will review which clinic it was and see if there are any Synanon connections.

He was lobbying a Dr. Richard Shore with the Bureau of Alcoholism, 101 Grove Street, SF, CA. It appears that this is a city agency, not a private organization that may have ties to Synanon. The letter is dated August 6, 1970.

[Dr. Doogie]

I have found an interesting handwritten note in the Box From Hell. Some words are undeciperable, but here it is in its entirity:

Plan

1. Contact (undecipherable, looks like "mome") (a p with a line above it) Final arrangements (a c with a line above it) L's have been made. Jan 1973

2. Apply for $100.000 (a c with a line above it) A.C.E. as B (scribbled out word)

3. 3 months later negotiate increase to 5. (undecipherable, looks like "slils") ACE

4. 3 mos later change B.

What is interesting is that this note outlines a plan where the "final arrangements" conclude with something happening in January 1973, the month and year that Anna disappeared. This plan also includes applying for a sum of money (either $100.00 with one too many zeros behind the decimal or $100,000 with a period instead of a comma in the number). It appears the plan was to apply as Brody, then change the name on the loan three months later (which does not make a lot of sense, but that was apparently the plan).

The symbols used in the note appear to be shorthand. Is anyone out there familar with these symbols?

[Dr. Doogie]

Also from the Box From Hell: I found a small section torn out what appears to be the SF Chronicle from the day before the presidential election in 1972 (early November). Evidently, what was of interest to whoever saved this scrap was either an obituary on one side for "Paul Jerome Farrell", Hattie Maude Gauthier", Jim Rock", "Frederick Smith" or Violet F. Snyder", or on the other side of the sheet, it lists an ad for Gus Hall, the Communist Party candidate for President and a few listings of political events such as fund-raisers for the McGovern /Shriver campaign and The Committee for the Re-Election of the President, and a "victory celebration" for the Socialist Workers Party. I know that GW held strong pacifist beliefs and had protested the war in Viet Nam.

Annasmom, do you know if he was a member or active in any political organiztions that might be related to the above information?

[SherlockJr]

[QUOTE=Dr. Doogie]I have found an interesting handwritten note in the Box From Hell. Some words are undeciperable, but here it is in its entirity:

Plan

1. Contact (undecipherable, looks like "mome") (a p with a line above it) Final arrangements (a c with a line above it) L's have been made. Jan 1973

2. Apply for $100.000 (a c with a line above it) A.C.E. as B (scribbled out word)

3. 3 months later negotiate increase to 5. (undecipherable, looks like "slils") ACE

4. 3 mos later change B.




Oh Doogie, anyway to scan this? Could ACE be Anna Christian Eiffee?

[Dr. Doogie]

Oh Doogie, anyway to scan this? Could ACE be Anna Christian Eiffee?
HOLY COW!!!! That did not dawn on me!!! Great work, SherlockJr.

Yes, I will scan it in and post it pronto.

[Dr. Doogie]

Here is the link for the scan of the note:

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/drdoogief/detail?.dir=aac9&.dnm=d160.jpg&.src=ph

[SherlockJr]

I feel this note really has to do with Anna. Almost like they applied for an insurance policy on her. The c with a line over it looks like a medical term or abbreviation.

[Dr. Doogie]

This is getting very wierd. I recently found and have been communicating with an old friend who currently is working out of her home doing... medical transcriptions for doctors! I will contact her and see if she recognizes them.

[PonderingThings]

Sherlockjr that is great work! Even the scratched out word looks like "beneficiary"

[Dr. Doogie]

I have sent off an email to the transcriber friend and await her response.

Early on in investigating the disappearance of Anna, I recognized that her disappearance was a manifestation of evil, and as such, this search is a spiritual battle as much as it is a technical investigation. As I have continued through the peaks and valleys, I have seen evidence of divine providence throughout our search. For example: the friend that I am speaking of had been out of communication for almost thirty years, yet I found her about a month ago via the internet. I can now see that God has brought her back into my life for just this purpose - to answer this question. As it has been said, God works in mysterious ways - and He is very good at His job! Let me take this time to offer up praise to Him. :clap:

Okay, sermon over.

[MagicRose99]

Just another thought... your "MOME" looks like "Mont" to me... maybe as in Montana? (Just an idea)

Also, your "slili" may be the word "still"?

[SherlockJr]

Or Montreal???

[Dr. Doogie]

Sherlockjr that is great work! Even the scratched out word looks like "beneficiary"
I think you are right! Plugging that in to the note, it appears that they were applying for $100,000 insurance with Anna as beneficiary, raising it to $500,000, then changing it over to Brody as the beneficiary.

This does not mean that they took her (this by defenition had to have occured prior to January 1973), but it does look very suspicious!

[Dr. Doogie]

Just another thought... your "MOME" looks like "Mont" to me... maybe as in Montana? (Just an idea)

Also, your "slili" may be the word "still"?
Damn, you guys are good! "...still (with) ACE" makes perfect sense in the context of Anna as the beneficiary.

"Mont" may also be what it says. If it is Montreal, that reminds me of the discussion from a few months ago concerning the Kaballarians out of Canada. I will go back and review the sticky and see if they were located in Montreal! This is exciting!

[PonderingThings]

Mmmm if that is truly the meaning of the note, then Waters was trying to figure out a way to get even more insurance policies. It would not be suspect to have your daughter as the beneficiary - most family men could explain this to an agent pretty easily. However, if you started to take out a whole bunch of insurance policies and all had the same beneficiary some companies wouldn't touch you.

So... take out multiple insurance policies. Have various beneficiaries, and then later change the beneficiary without raising alarm bells - its a loophole to get Brody more insurance....

I'm at a loss how it explains anything about Anna's disappearance though... although the January 1973 is creepy... it may just be coincidence....

[Dr. Doogie]

Mmmm if that is truly the meaning of the note, then Waters was trying to figure out a way to get even more insurance policies. It would not be suspect to have your daughter as the beneficiary - most family men could explain this to an agent pretty easily. However, if you started to take out a whole bunch of insurance policies and all had the same beneficiary some companies wouldn't touch you.

So... take out multiple insurance policies. Have various beneficiaries, and then later change the beneficiary without raising alarm bells - its a loophole to get Brody more insurance....

I'm at a loss how it explains anything about Anna's disappearance though... although the January 1973 is creepy... it may just be coincidence....
I agree, except that if Anna were to disappear, then no one would question why the beneficiary was changed. This could have been just a part of the whole master plan in the sense that they knew that Anna was going to disappear and created a scenario where they could use it to their advantage.

[PonderingThings]

Ahhh ok! I'm on board now!

[Dr. Doogie]

I cannot find the pages where Kaballanarism is discussed. If any one has the time and patience to review the sticky, could they post what page it started on. Thanks!

[petra]

ok, think i got it. in europe we use a period instead of comma in money. latin term c with line for cum or with. p with line is latin for per or about.

1.Contact ??(monday)(monte) per Final arrangements with L's (lawyers)have been made(jan 1973)
2. Apply for $100,000 with Anna Christian Efffie as Benificary.
3.3 months later negotiate increase to $500,000 still with ACE as benificiary.
4. 3 months later change beneficiary.

_ under letter means capital

**********************
what if number 1-had to do with arranged kidnapping and not insurance policy?
L's being possible last name of kidnappers?

[PonderingThings]

KT Can posted on page 11 of the original thread about the Kaballians. The "weirdo" sect is primairly a Western Canada group.

There is another group, which is an "offshoot" of Jewish religion and it has ties to Montreal - but they are not the same as the group KT Can was talking about.

Hello to all. As you can see I am a long-long time lurker but not a big poster. I have however always been interested in Anna's case and I've been very excited by the recent activity on this thread.

PonderingThings previously posted about Anna's name being a "mirror image" name and that got me to thinking about the name Eifee. I truly believe that this name change is a very significant piece of the puzzle. I did some research on Eifee and ending up finding the mirror image name "Eefie" on a website for the Kabalarians. Kabalarianism is a religous sect founded in Vancouver in the 1930's. A central tenet of Kabalarian Philosophy is numerology, the belief in the mystical powers of numbers. Many Kabalarians change their names hoping to secure the benefits that names with greater numerological significance will supposedly confer upon them.

Anna's father and George Brody used numerology as the reason for wanting to add the name Eifee to Anna's. Maybe George at one time was a follower of this group or maybe George hails from Canada. This could explain his being untraceable in the United Sates. The Kabalarians are a shady group who's former leader was involved in sexual abuse scandals (I'm sorry to say) and they were known to have a location in California.

http://www.kabalarians.com/cfm/DisplayNameAnalysis.cfm

http://www.bcskeptics.info/calendar/1996.03.22.html

[PonderingThings]

ok, think i got it. in europe we use a period instead of comma . latin term c with line for cum or with. p with line is latin for per or about.

1.Contact ??(monday) per Final arrangements with lawyers have been made (Jan 1973)
2. Apply for 100,00 with Anna Christian Efffie as Benificary.
3.3 months later negotiate increase to $500,000 still with ACE as benificiary.
4. 3 months later change beneficiary.

_ under letter means capital
Petra I think you cracked it! In your above quoted words I added the 1973 date to 1.

So... what final arrangements were made with the lawyers???? Was Anna's "adoption" set for January 1973?

Dr. Doogie is there any reference to who Water's lawyers were in the box from hell??????

[petra]

hi PT--went back and edited my post a bit...see what you think?

[SherlockJr]

A family member who is in the medical field believes the "c" with line over it is an abbreviation for "with" , and the "p" with line over it is short for "about".

[Annasmom]

Also from the Box From Hell: I found a small section torn out what appears to be the SF Chronicle from the day before the presidential election in 1972 (early November). Evidently, what was of interest to whoever saved this scrap was either an obituary on one side for "Paul Jerome Farrell", Hattie Maude Gauthier", Jim Rock", "Frederick Smith" or Violet F. Snyder", or on the other side of the sheet, it lists an ad for Gus Hall, the Communist Party candidate for President and a few listings of political events such as fund-raisers for the McGovern /Shriver campaign and The Committee for the Re-Election of the President, and a "victory celebration" for the Socialist Workers Party. I know that GW held strong pacifist beliefs and had protested the war in Viet Nam.

Annasmom, do you know if he was a member or active in any political organiztions that might be related to the above information?
Gosh, Doogie, I leave the house for one afternoon and all sorts of things happen! George's sister is president of the Socialist Workers' Party (Trotskyists). I don't know that he was in touch with her, and I suspect that this newspaper clipping was just a way of noticing that she might be in town and might try to contact him. I don't think that she was in any way involved with Anna's disappearance, and I don't think she knew what kind of trouble George was in.

Regarding the note: My God! You've just about got it figured out without my input. The p means "regarding" and the c with a line means "with", as several others have already told you. When you post the scanned copy, maybe I will be able to make out some of the other words. I can't believe he left this note among the papers after destroying so many others.

[petra]

Gosh, Doogie, I leave the house for one afternoon and all sorts of things happen! George's sister is president of the Socialist Workers' Party (Trotskyists). I don't know that he was in touch with her, and I suspect that this newspaper clipping was just a way of noticing that she might be in town and might try to contact him. I don't think that she was in any way involved with Anna's disappearance, and I don't think she knew what kind of trouble George was in.

Regarding the note: My God! You've just about got it figured out without my input. The p means "regarding" and the c with a line means "with", as several others have already told you. When you post the scanned copy, maybe I will be able to make out some of the other words. I can't believe he left this note among the papers after destroying so many others.
hi annasmom--see post 70-doggie scanned it in--

[petra]

A family member who is in the medical field believes the "c" with line over it is an abbreviation for "with" , and the "p" with line over it is short for "about".
yes, agreed..latin
sherlock--you have been doing some great sleuthing!! i am so impressed.:)

have been reading but had no internet cconnection for a month. if you can check my posts above....interested to see what you think

[PonderingThings]

Petra even clearer - great work!

So... any idea who "L" is? A family member?

[Dr. Doogie]

I think that we have cracked it - except for the most important part of it: who are the"L's"? It may be "lawyers" or it could be the initials of someone else involved in this scheme (the couple in the car?).

The two Georges had numerous accidental death policies on Waters with Brody as the beneficiary - why was this one so special that it would require a "plan". And what "final arrangements" needed to be made if this is just them buying yet another policy. No, the insurance policies are are subsequent steps in this plan which starts with something that was to occur in January 1973.

I have always thought that GW and GB were the most likely suspects in Anna's disappearance, but let me say something that I have been reluctant to say up to this point: THE S.O.B.'s DID IT!!!!! I believe that this note can only be explained by viewing it through the lens of Anna's disappearance, and it was written prior to her disappearance (which means they knew before hand).

[petra]

Doogie, you are amazing.:dance: I have been reading this all along with no way to post--frustrating.

I think you are right on with this assesment. Question about the name Christian-is it a family name, maiden name, religion, named after someone--usually a boy's name here in norway. that is why i was wondering where it came from.

The BFH is providing some interesting tidbits--curious as to what annasmom has to say about the actual note.

Keep up the great work doogie and other sleuths--great to be back posting.

[MagicRose99]

I have to agree Doogie! You are amazing!

I hate to say it... but if those 2 were involved with taking her... God help us all.

[SherlockJr]

oh, gee, somewhere in all these posts, doogie or annasmom has listed things that anna would have remembered. I can't find this post. I am e-mailing a woman in california who says there were no adoption record on her and I would like to include some things in the e-mail to jog her memory. Help me out!

[petra]

oh, gee, somewhere in all these posts, doogie or annasmom has listed things that anna would have remembered. I can't find this post. I am e-mailing a woman in california who says there were no adoption record on her and I would like to include some things in the e-mail to jog her memory. Help me out!
hi super sherlock--try around post 405-pg 16 of locked thread

[petra]

hi super sherlock--try around post 405-pg 16 of locked thread
no , post412, pg 17:rolleyes:

[SherlockJr]

thanks petra!

[petra]

thanks petra!
you are welcome, sherlock.

good luck with e-mail.

[Annasmom]

Here is the link for the scan of the note:

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/drdoogief/detail?.dir=aac9&.dnm=d160.jpg&.src=ph
Doogie, the note is definitely GW's handwriting. Here's what I think it says:
1. Contact MONY (possibly Mutual of New York) regarding Final arrangements with L's have been made. (Jan. 1973)
2. Apply for $100,000 with ACE as Beneficiary (in Greek numerals, they use a period instead of a comma to mark off thousands; GW usually did it this way.)
3. 3 months later negotiate increase to 5. Still with ACE
4. 3 mos later change B.

[Annasmom]

Doogie, you are amazing.:dance: I have been reading this all along with no way to post--frustrating.

I think you are right on with this assesment. Question about the name Christian-is it a family name, maiden name, religion, named after someone--usually a boy's name here in norway. that is why i was wondering where it came from.

The BFH is providing some interesting tidbits--curious as to what annasmom has to say about the actual note.

Keep up the great work doogie and other sleuths--great to be back posting. Petra, "Anna" is my sister and also Anna's grandmother; "Christian" just because I liked it and liked the connotations.

[SherlockJr]

MONY has merged with AXA Financial Protection now.

[itsreenw]

"L's have been made"

At my job (DMV) L's is short for (driver) licenses. Could have been fake drivers licenses they would need to present to the insurance company before the policy was finalized.

[itsreenw]

Whoooa!! If there was an insurance policy and Anna was the original beneficiary, then the beneficiary was being changed to Brody, who was the party they insured?? This doesn't make sense. Anna wasn't the person that was insured so why would they abduct her (I believe 1 million percent they did). I just don't understand what the whole plan was. I doubt GW was the imsured. Suicide cancels most policies, he wasn't sick and GB needed GW around him to do everything for him.

Hmmm, How did the lady die that GB said Anna was the reincarnation of (before the woman was even dead)???

[itsreenw]

MONT- Montesano, WA

http://www.worldlicenceplates.com/jpglps/USA_WA_GI6_1960's.jpg

Annasbro, do any of these look familiar?

[PonderingThings]

I am no expert on life insurance but it is possible to get an insurance policy and then use it as collateral for a loan. So perhaps that's why it was done?

As for the suicide... Brody wasn't sick, and hadn't died then so suicide wasn't the plan. It only became the plan after Brody died.

[mysteriew]

I have found an interesting handwritten note in the Box From Hell. Some words are undeciperable, but here it is in its entirity:

Plan

1. Contact (undecipherable, looks like "mome") (a p with a line above it) Final arrangements (a c with a line above it) L's have been made. Jan 1973

2. Apply for $100.000 (a c with a line above it) A.C.E. as B (scribbled out word)

3. 3 months later negotiate increase to 5. (undecipherable, looks like "slils") ACE

4. 3 mos later change B.

What is interesting is that this note outlines a plan where the "final arrangements" conclude with something happening in January 1973, the month and year that Anna disappeared. This plan also includes applying for a sum of money (either $100.00 with one too many zeros behind the decimal or $100,000 with a period instead of a comma in the number). It appears the plan was to apply as Brody, then change the name on the loan three months later (which does not make a lot of sense, but that was apparently the plan).

The symbols used in the note appear to be shorthand. Is anyone out there familar with these symbols?

p with a line over it means "after" in medical jargon. (you will see it a lot of times on perscriptions as p meals) c with a line over it means "with".

My interpetation:
1. Contact Mont (Montgomery? Monty? Montreal? or the Washington city or most probably the insurance company) after Final arrangements with L's have been made. Jan. 1973
2. Apply for $100,000 with ACE, as (Bscribbled, possibly beneficiary)
3. 3 months later negotiate increase to 5. ____ with ACE.
4. 3 mos later change B.

I would check the BFH for communication with any couple with the last name beginning with L. ACE could most likely be an insurance company or loan company or an agency name. I think this was written by George W. due to the medical shorthand, maybe he was writing down the instructions from GB. I do think this is a significant find.

[smile22]

i still think ace in the letter is refering to anna. i also think that the ls stand for lawyers contact l's for finaly arangements i belive it said must be laywers but.. if they were selling anna or giving her out to a family wouldnt they need annas mom to sign papers? did gw have any custody rights to anna like joint? or something. i mean you cant just give your child away to someone without both parents signing something?. unless gw and brody had a shady lawyer who produced documents of some sort and this was done in the black market?

[Dr. Doogie]

i still think ace in the letter is refering to anna. i also think that the ls stand for lawyers contact l's for finaly arangements i belive it said must be laywers but.. if they were selling anna or giving her out to a family wouldnt they need annas mom to sign papers? did gw have any custody rights to anna like joint? or something. i mean you cant just give your child away to someone without both parents signing something?. unless gw and brody had a shady lawyer who produced documents of some sort and this was done in the black market?
Annasmom and GW had joint legal custody, yet Anna lived with Annasmom exclusively. GW never had any dealings with Anna after the divorce and never showed any interest in her except for the sending of child support checks. This note is the first evidence that Anna was even in his thoughts.

It is possible that GW & GB arranged for false paperwork showing that Annasmom was deceased or had abandoned Anna which would allow GW to "legally" sign adoption papers.

[HeartofTexas]

2. Apply for $100.000 (a c with a line above it) A.C.E. as B (scribbled out word)
I interpret that as:

2. Apply for $100,000 (insurance policy) with A.C.E. (Anna Christian Eifee) as B (beneficiary).

[PonderingThings]

This was in the 1970s Smile22 and sadly many "authorities" did not take custody into account. Whoever had the child frequently made all the decisions, no matter what the courts said. Its hard to believe in today's world but oftentimes family abduction reports weren't even taken.

Add to this the fact the George Waters was a doctor and you have a whole new catagory of "allowable leeway" that other mere mortals didn't enjoy.

So yes... a lot of money, an "ask no questions" lawyer, a father, a plan, and more than one person would have assisted.

Finally, George Waters lived in a hotel room that was in a run down area. Who knows how many times he treated some "unsavory characters" who didn't want to go to the hospital. Perhaps one was more than willing to help out the doctor with some forged papers?

Pure speculation on my part though.

[Dr. Doogie]

I hate to say it... but if those 2 were involved with taking her... God help us all.
Actually, if they were involved (and I believe that they were), it increases the chances that Anna is still alive. As crazy as these two were, they were not predators or murderers. Brody was filled with a sense of "self importance" that lead him to believe that he was some sort of messiah - I do not believe that he or Waters would bring physical harm to Anna. I can, however, see where they would abduct her and get her into a "safe" environment "for her own good".

[Dr. Doogie]

Pure speculation on my part though.
Your speculations seem right on to me.

[Dr. Doogie]

oh, gee, somewhere in all these posts, doogie or annasmom has listed things that anna would have remembered. I can't find this post. I am e-mailing a woman in california who says there were no adoption record on her and I would like to include some things in the e-mail to jog her memory. Help me out!
I also have pictures of the whole family (Annasmom, Joe Ford, Annasbro and her other brother) from within a few short months before Anna disappeared that have not been posted for privacy reasons. If the woman that you are in contact with feels that there is a possibility that she is Anna, let me know and I will send you the pics.

[HeartofTexas]

Sherlock, the things she would have remembered would have been: Joka (Joe), her brother's names Nonda and Eddie, a dog named Saturn, and her neighbors Peggy and Suzy.

[Dr. Doogie]

I have just spent my morning digging through the Box from Hell, reviewing copies of dozens of insurance policies that might relate to the note that we have been discussing. A few observations:

1. All of the policies seem to been generated between late 1973 and 1975.

2. None of the policies have Anna listed as the beneficiary, but that may be because they were generated after Anna's disappearance.

3. All of the policies list "George Brody, Friend" as the beneficiary. Some of the policies show Brody as a "change in beneficiary", but no records exist that show who the original beneficiary was. A few of the policies have letters from Waters naming Brody as the "Irrevocable Beneficiary" where even Waters could not remove Brody as the benefiociary without Brody's written permission.

4. None of the policies were traditional life insurance where the benefits would be paid out upon the death of the insured for any reason. These were all "Accidental Death and Dismemberment" policies that frequently are offered through credit card companies as an added benefit of membership (Shell Oil, Sears, etc.) These are usually very low monthy cost policies where premiums are charged to the members credit card and require very little paperwork to apply for.

[Dr. Doogie]

I just found a reference to an Accidental Death insurance policy issued by Lloyd's of London issued in 1970 with Brody as beneficiary. On July 30th, 1970, Waters presented it Brody as a "birthday gift" (remember, Brody claimed to have been born August 15th, 1925). The policy was for $100,000 with the promise to increase it to $1,000,000 in the future.

I do not believe that this was the policy mentioned in the above note because it was written two and a half years before the date mentioned of January 1973. It does appear to be the first instance of an insurance policy taken out by Waters listing Brody as the beneficiary.

[Dr. Doogie]

I have also found a list of alimony and child support payments in 1972 in George Waters' handwriting. It methodically lists alimony payments of $125 to Annasmom on the 15th of the months and $175 to Anna on the first of the months. There is a notation that say "D/C (discontinue) Alimony - Remarried 9/16/72". All payments had been made by Bank of America money order until this point. Waters made one more child support payment with a BofA money order on 10/1. His last three child support payments were made by personal check - he listed the payee on this list as "A.C.E.W." This matches the "Plan" note's reference to "A.C.E." This tells me that "A.C.E." is definitely Anna.

The list shows his last payment was made 1/1/73. Chillingly, the last entry on this list says "Anna Lost - 1/16/73".

[Dr. Doogie]

1. Contact MONY (possibly Mutual of New York) regarding Final arrangements with L's have been made. (Jan. 1973)
After looking at the note, I agree that it probably says "MONY" which would be Mutual of New York. I cannot find any records of a MONY insurance policy in the Box from Hell. I wonder if this was among the items that GW destryed between Brody's and Waters' deaths.

[itsreenw]

ok, so L's could refer to Lloyd's of London. The use of the words "final arrangements" always reminds me of funeral plans.

I just don't understand the need to list Anna as the beneficiary, raise the amount 3 months later, then change the beneficiary. Why not put the intended beneficiary in the first place? What would be the benefit of that?

[q64ceo]

mont=Altamont california? its in the Oakland area

[Dr. Doogie]

ok, so L's could refer to Lloyd's of London. The use of the words "final arrangements" always reminds me of funeral plans.
Once again, you guys are good! "L's" could very well be Lloyd's. Whatever the "final arrangements" were, they were something that involved Anna that was to happen January 1973.

I just don't understand the need to list Anna as the beneficiary, raise the amount 3 months later, then change the beneficiary. Why not put the intended beneficiary in the first place? What would be the benefit of that?
This does not make a lot of sense to me either. It appears that the two Georges had already established Brody as the beneficiary two years earlier on the Lloyd's policy, so why is this happening in late 1972? That is why I believe that this note relates to more than just a beneficiary change.

[SherlockJr]

Looking back at this note again, #2 ...with ACE as B.... really looks more like an "L".... the scribbly marks made the "L" look like a B. And why is it underlined twice??? The way it is underlined, maybe originally nothing was intended to go after the "L" just like in #4 the B underlined all by itself.

[PonderingThings]

This does not make a lot of sense to me either. It appears that the two Georges had already established Brody as the beneficiary two years earlier on the Lloyd's policy, so why is this happening in late 1972? That is why I believe that this note relates to more than just a beneficiary change.
Actually the note is not dated... it could have been written after Jan 1973 or way before... all that is indicated is Jan 1973 is significant....

[SherlockJr]

Pondering, most people don't plan the past... and I know the George's were not like most people. It is believed this was written prior to 1973. Although he speaks in past tense say "have been made". Something to consider!

[itsreenw]

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e281/itsreenw/d160.jpg

that's definitely "Beneficiary"- the "f" is prominent as is the "y" at the end. It does look like he may have started off with "L" and realized he was writing the wrong word. He then spelled out Beneficiary

[PonderingThings]

Sherlockjr your point is well taken about people not planning the past. What I was referring to was perhaps the final arrangements have been completed for the incident that began/occured in Jan 1973.

L's = Lawsuit?
L's = Losses?
L's = Links?
L's = Liabilities?
L's = Legal changes/alterations?

L's could be a lot of things.

1. Contact (undecipherable, looks like "mome") (a p with a line above it) Final arrangements (a c with a line above it) L's have been made. Jan 1973

[q64ceo]

could the c with the line over it mean "care of"?

the p could stand for per, as in "per final"

[SherlockJr]

Is it possible to contact Lloyds of London to find out if a payout was made after January of 1973 to anyone? Annasmom may have enough information in this note to have the FBI get involved and re-investigate Anna's dissapearance.

[q64ceo]

ignore that c A.C.E. and it says, apply for 100,000 as B. That could mean that he applied to be the benneficiary of ACE.

[Dr. Doogie]

The letter from Waters to Brody announcing his "birthday gift" of the policy does list policy numbers so it would be able to be tracked as far as a payout. However, it is an "Accidental Death" policy, so I cannot see how a payment would have been made. That being said, I will try and contact Lloyd's and see if any additional info can be gleaned from this.

[Dr. Doogie]

Is it possible to contact Lloyds of London to find out if a payout was made after January of 1973 to anyone? Annasmom may have enough information in this note to have the FBI get involved and re-investigate Anna's dissapearance.
I believe that the note is suspicious enough that had it been discovered in the months after Anna's disappearance, LE could have used it to bring in the two Georges and "sweated" them with interrogation. Unfortunately, with both George's dead, I am not sure how interested LE would be today.

[SherlockJr]

Anna is still a missing person. Skip the LE and go higher.

[Dr. Doogie]

Anna is still a missing person. Skip the LE and go higher.
Higher, as in the FBI?

[SherlockJr]

Higher, as in the FBI?

:clap:

[SherlockJr]

Sherlockjr your point is well taken about people not planning the past. What I was referring to was perhaps the final arrangements have been completed for the incident that began/occured in Jan 1973.

L's = Lawsuit?
L's = Losses?
L's = Links?
L's = Liabilities?
L's = Legal changes/alterations?

L's could be a lot of things.

1. Contact (undecipherable, looks like "mome") (a p with a line above it) Final arrangements (a c with a line above it) L's have been made. Jan 1973

Sometime in late 60's there was a lawfirm called Lyons & Lyons located in San Mateo county. Don't know if this firm was still around in 1973.

[petra]

I have just spent my morning digging through the Box from Hell, reviewing copies of dozens of insurance policies that might relate to the note that we have been discussing. A few observations:

1. All of the policies seem to been generated between late 1973 and 1975.

2. None of the policies have Anna listed as the beneficiary, but that may be because they were generated after Anna's disappearance.

3. All of the policies list "George Brody, Friend" as the beneficiary. Some of the policies show Brody as a "change in beneficiary", but no records exist that show who the original beneficiary was. A few of the policies have letters from Waters naming Brody as the "Irrevocable Beneficiary" where even Waters could not remove Brody as the benefiociary without Brody's written permission.


keeping an open mind about this--and placing myself in the Georges' shoes, this makes sense to me.

Anna was "lost" in Jan 1973. As a crushed, griefing parent who could be scared or terrified by this event....perhaps Dr Waters, since he was the only breadwinner in the twosome took these policies out to provide for Brody (maybe at Brody's suggestion) in case something "accidental" happened to him---just like it happened to Anna.
Dr Waters may have taken these policies, out of fear that perhaps something similar could happen to him, like happened to Anna......just disappearing

4. None of the policies were traditional life insurance where the benefits would be paid out upon the death of the insured for any reason. These were all "Accidental Death and Dismemberment" policies that frequently are offered through credit card companies as an added benefit of membership (Shell Oil, Sears, etc.) These are usually very low monthy cost policies where premiums are charged to the members credit card and require very little paperwork to apply for.


keeping an open mind about this--and placing myself in the Georges' shoes, this makes sense to me.

Anna was "lost" in Jan 1973. As a crushed, griefing parent who could be scared or terrified by this event....perhaps Dr Waters, since he was the only breadwinner in the twosome took these policies out to provide for Brody (maybe at Brody's suggestion) in case something "accidental" happened to him---just like it happened to Anna.
Dr Waters may have taken these policies, out of fear that perhaps something similar could happen to him, like happened to Anna......just disappearing

[natasha-cupcake]

could the c with the line over it mean "care of"?

the p could stand for per, as in "per final"As a few others have mentioned already, "c" with a line above means "with" and "p" with a line above means "after" or "following". These are both extremely common shortcuts used in medical notes.

I've been following this case for a while and I believe this just may be one of the biggest breaks in figuring out what could have happened to this darling little girl.

Good work, Websleuthers!

[Annasmom]

As a few others have mentioned already, "c" with a line above means "with" and "p" with a line above means "after" or "following". These are both extremely common shortcuts used in medical notes.

I've been following this case for a while and I believe this just may be one of the biggest breaks in figuring out what could have happened to this darling little girl.

Good work, Websleuthers!
Natasha-Cupcake, I was just about to suggest that the "p" meant "post" or "after"--it does change the meaning of the note. Thanks for your input!

[Annasmom]

MONT- Montesano, WA

http://www.worldlicenceplates.com/jpglps/USA_WA_GI6_1960's.jpg

Annasbro, do any of these look familiar?
Itsreenw, I'm not sure how often Annasbro checks in to the forum these days, so I have printed out the license plate pictures and am mailing them to him. I'm amazed that you were able to get these. Maybe they will trigger some memory for him. Thank you.

[Annasmom]

keeping an open mind about this--and placing myself in the Georges' shoes, this makes sense to me.

Anna was "lost" in Jan 1973. As a crushed, griefing parent who could be scared or terrified by this event....perhaps Dr Waters, since he was the only breadwinner in the twosome took these policies out to provide for Brody (maybe at Brody's suggestion) in case something "accidental" happened to him---just like it happened to Anna.
Dr Waters may have taken these policies, out of fear that perhaps something similar could happen to him, like happened to Anna......just disappearing
Petra, I have trouble imagining that Dr. Waters was crushed or grieving over this. Certainly he demonstrated what psychologists call "flat affect"--absolutely no emotion--with regard to his family before he left home, and apart from sending small checks which were required by law, he had no contact with us whatsover. When LE informed him that Anna had been lost, his only response was to say that he was not responsible and to consult a lawyer about discontinuing support payments. But in my heart, I would like to believe that he still had some feeling for his daughter, and so I found your remarks charitable. Thank you.

[viking]

Catching up. The alimony and child support writings are scary (Anna lost)! The A.C.E., to me, is Anna Christian Eiffe. Weird!

[viking]

Oh, and Anna's mom? I believe George loved you and Anna very much. He was just so trapped inside his hellish mind.

Love,

Mary

[gardenmom]

I don't think the word is MONT at all. If you look at the other words that end in "t", it is totally different. Try comparing that letter to another one that is similar in another writing.

[Dr. Doogie]

I don't think the word is MONT at all. If you look at the other words that end in "t", it is totally different. Try comparing that letter to another one that is similar in another writing.
I believe that Annasmom is correct: the word is MONY (Mutual of New York). It makes sense in the context of a discussion about insurance. That also lends me to believe that "L's" is Lloyd's (Lloyd's of London) who he did have an insurance policy through.

[gardenmom]

I believe that Annasmom is correct: the word is MONY (Mutual of New York). It makes sense in the context of a discussion about insurance. That also lends me to believe that "L's" is Lloyd's (Lloyd's of London) who he did have an insurance policy through.
Look at the word "Apply", the "y" on the end is totally different. So, if we assume the "Y" on the end of MON(Y) is a capitol, I guess it may look different. I'm still not convinced, that's why if you can find some other writing samples, it may help decipher the letter. Do you know of any handwriting experts? Maybe try to find a college professor online that may be willing to help. Of course, I also know you will contact MONY to see if he had an account. That would clear it up for sure. At any rate, this is a very encouraging find and I am really happy things are picking up again.

Annasmom, I hope you are holding up well during all this excitement. :clap:

[HeartofTexas]

That also lends me to believe that "L's" is Lloyd's (Lloyd's of London) who he did have an insurance policy through.
Doogie, why couldn't "L's" just be GW's shorthand for "life insurance policies"?

[Dr. Doogie]

Doogie, why couldn't "L's" just be GW's shorthand for "life insurance policies"?
That is also possible.

[itsreenw]

Dr. Doogie,

what else ya got in that box? I think that note has confirmed a lot of people's belief that GW and GB were involved.

Joe Ford, do you recall when it was that you heard GW make the comment about the tot being dead??

edited to add:
I emailed MONY (now AXA) and asked if they archived the records from the 70's. I briefly explained the reason for my inquiry and I am awaiting a response. If I get a reply I will get a contact name and forward it to Annasamom and Dr. Doogie.

[Dr. Doogie]

Dr. Doogie, what else ya got in that box? I think that note has confirmed a lot of people's belief that GW and GB were involved.I am rededicating myself to mining the BFH for any other information. I must admit that I thought that Annasmom was being melodramatic concerning how difficult it is to review its contents - boy, was I wrong! It is spiritually draining to try and comprehend the writings of two mentally-ill men. However, I feel that hiding within the rants of these two resides the answers to a lot of our questions.


I emailed MONY (now AXA) and asked if they archived the records from the 70's. I briefly explained the reason for my inquiry and I am awaiting a response. If I get a reply I will get a contact name and forward it to Annasamom and Dr. Doogie.
Thanks, itsreenw. Are you back among the living now after your recent illness?

[itsreenw]

Originally posted by Dr. Doogie Thanks, itsreenw. Are you back among the living now after your recent illness? Actually NO!! I am still sick but that won't keep me from logging into WS.

I'm sure you will let us know if you find anything else in the BFH- I am just amazed that you stumbled across that note. That is very telling. I wonder if GW didn't leave some of those things purposely so Annasmom would know what happened. He had to have a tinge of guilt about abducting her

[Dr. Doogie]

I'm sure you will let us know if you find anything else in the BFH- I am just amazed that you stumbled across that note. That is very telling. I wonder if GW didn't leave some of those things purposely so Annasmom would know what happened. He had to have a tinge of guilt about abducting her
Waters was very meticulous about archiving every seemingly minor piece of paperwork that he had - even down to receipts for the portrait he had done of Brody in 1971 (still in his possesion in 1982). However, he evidently went on a purging binge between Brody's death 12/24/81 and his suicide estimated about 1/7/82. This note was a single sheet of 5.5x8.5 paper that must have been missed by Waters. I doubt that GW felt guilt over any involvement in Anna's disappearance. If he wanted Annasmom to know what happened, he could have left a confession in a suicide note spelling out clearly what occured. I believe that he felt justified in his actions and knowingly took his secrets to the grave. I think that we were just lucky that he wasn't as thorough at destroying evidence as he thought he was.

[smile22]

do u think that somehow deep in his heart he might have wanted to tell annas mom about what happend but brody had forbid him to? also do u think waters took his life not only beacuse he was going crazy and brody had died but do u think he was distrought over what happend to anna and couldnt take it anymore. i mean brody had him really in check with everything. when brody was dying he could have pleaded with him or something to tell what happend to anna but being brody he could have convinced him t was for the best?

[SherlockJr]

go higher!!!!!

[Dr. Doogie]

do u think that somehow deep in his heart he might have wanted to tell annas mom about what happend but brody had forbid him to? also do u think waters took his life not only beacuse he was going crazy and brody had died but do u think he was distrought over what happend to anna and couldnt take it anymore. i mean brody had him really in check with everything. when brody was dying he could have pleaded with him or something to tell what happend to anna but being brody he could have convinced him t was for the best?
I think that Brody had him so wrapped around his finger that Waters completely had no clue how to exist without Brody's "guidance". I have notes from the Box from Hell where Waters claims that Brody is the greatest thing that has happened to planet Earth in all of its history. Waters told Annasmom that Brody was greater than Jesus Christ. The level of devotion and respect that he had for this old coot was truely frightening.

[Dr. Doogie]

I have posted links to all of the pictures of Anna in the Vital Statistics thread (Post #13). This is to help people find them without having to scour all of the threads for the various links.

[Dr. Doogie]

A quick note about the missing safe deposit keys: they have been found in the Box from Hell. Unfortunately, the contents of any SDB's have been forfitedand any personal papers were destroyed by the state. There is a substantial amount of money in one under the name of George Brody, but only an heir can claim it.

[HeartofTexas]

There is a substantial amount of money in one under the name of George Brody, but only an heir can claim it.
A substantial sum of money in a safety deposit box could negate the Synanon theory (where most of GW's income was donated to Synanon). OTOH, with both of them being so paranoid, anything is possible.

[Joe Ford]

Higher, as in the FBI?
As GW's sister was president of the Socialists Worker's Party, it seems likely that the FBI would have a file on her and possibly her brother, GW. Maybe the Freedom of Information Act could unearth some details of an investigation that possibly would include Brody?

[mysteriew]

There is a substantial amount of money in one under the name of George Brody, but only an heir can claim it.

Could that be used in any way to force an investigation by authorities? Logically all or a portion of the money would have been Anna's as she is the only known heir. Anna is missing under suspicious circumstances. Could those funds be used to finance the search or anything?

[smile22]

im sure if u petition the courts and all i mean it is part of an investigation involving anna and we need to know all the info we can get.. you said in the bfh the keys were located hmm? all the personal stuff was distroyed by the state what about other stuff in their like money or jewelry or something that might link us to anna could it be possible to get into those boxes im sure with the right contacts anything can happen

[Dr. Doogie]

As GW's sister was president of the Socialists Worker's Party, it seems likely that the FBI would have a file on her and possibly her brother, GW. Maybe the Freedom of Information Act could unearth some details of an investigation that possibly would include Brody?
Good idea. GW also may have his own file based on his refusal of the draft during Viet Nam and his anti-war activites. If this turned up anything of value, we would actually have Richard Nixon's paranoia to thank (Who 'da thunk it?)

[Dr. Doogie]

Could that be used in any way to force an investigation by authorities? Logically all or a portion of the money would have been Anna's as she is the only known heir. Anna is missing under suspicious circumstances. Could those funds be used to finance the search or anything?
Anna was Waters' heir. The only way that this money could be accessed is if Waters was listed as Brody's heir. The only potential chain of heirship that would work is Brody dies, leaves money to Waters. Waters dies with Anna as his heir. Anna missing, so Annasmom receives the money and holds it trust for Anna.

I do not know if an attorney could even make this chain of events happen, and if they could, they would suck dry the funds so that nothing was left.

[SherlockJr]

I do not know if an attorney could even make this chain of events happen, and if they could, they would suck dry the funds so that nothing was left.

I can question my brother about this chain of events. But this is a bad week to bother him, he is involved in a very large case in Ohio right now. But I will e-mail him anyway.

[mysteriew]

Anna was Waters' heir. The only way that this money could be accessed is if Waters was listed as Brody's heir. The only potential chain of heirship that would work is Brody dies, leaves money to Waters. Waters dies with Anna as his heir. Anna missing, so Annasmom receives the money and holds it trust for Anna.

I do not know if an attorney could even make this chain of events happen, and if they could, they would suck dry the funds so that nothing was left.

So Brody's name was the only one listed on the box?

[Dr. Doogie]

So Brody's name was the only one listed on the box?
Evidently, since the California Unclaimed Property site only lists Brody. Bank of America had not been able to locate any records of the box that might provide any more information.

[mysteriew]

Well, I guess that explains why George W. didn't empty it. He didn't have access to it since it wasn't in his name.

[SherlockJr]

Evidently, since the California Unclaimed Property site only lists Brody. Bank of America had not been able to locate any records of the box that might provide any more information.

Am I understanding this right? The box is empty now. All papers were destroyed and any money left in the box is now with the State of Unclaimed Funds. Is this fact or belief?

[Dr. Doogie]

Am I understanding this right? The box is empty now. All papers were destroyed and any money left in the box is now with the State of Unclaimed Funds. Is this fact or belief?
Unfortunately, it is fact. The State only absorbs the money into its general fund and will repay any heirs after a valid claim is filed and approved. Any non-monetary contents of the boxes are destroyed by the State with no record of what they were. Ain't government a wonderful thing...

[HeartofTexas]

And boy do they make you jump thru hoops to claim the money, too. It's hard to do it without an attorney's assistance... and hiring the attorney eats up most of what you get. The whole process drug out for more than a year when I went thru it. We had to file ancillary probate in another state in order to claim the money, and that alone cost about $6,000 for attorney's fees.

[SherlockJr]

im sure if u petition the courts and all i mean it is part of an investigation involving anna and we need to know all the info we can get.. you said in the bfh the keys were located hmm? all the personal stuff was distroyed by the state what about other stuff in their like money or jewelry or something that might link us to anna could it be possible to get into those boxes im sure with the right contacts anything can happen

Is there a way to find out if "other stuff" was left in the box?

[SherlockJr]

And boy do they make you jump thru hoops to claim the money, too. It's hard to do it without an attorney's assistance... and hiring the attorney eats up most of what you get. The whole process drug out for more than a year when I went thru it. We had to file ancillary probate in another state in order to claim the money, and that alone cost about $6,000 for attorney's fees.
I was