Theory #3: Other Stranger Abduction

[Dr. Doogie]

This thread will be for discussing alternate theories of stranger abduction. I will copy forward the relevant material from the previous thread and re-post it her in a condensed form.

[Annasmom]

This thread will be for discussing alternate theories of stranger abduction. I will copy forward the relevant material from the previous thread and re-post it her in a condensed form.
Today I had the idea of making up a little flyer saying that we were looking into Anna's disappearance again and giving contact information. I thought I'd put one in each mailbox along Purisima Creek Road, asking the residents if they remember anything or have ever observed anything which might relate to the case. I'll let you know what happens. Annasmom

[kyresearcher]

Annasmom, that is a great idea, we want to keep interest in her case. Who knows, someone may just remember something that didn't seem important then and have been wondering about it all these years. There is nothing like a true mothers love-

[itsreenw]

Today I had the idea of making up a little flyer saying that we were looking into Anna's disappearance again and giving contact information. I thought I'd put one in each mailbox along Purisima Creek Road, asking the residents if they remember anything or have ever observed anything which might relate to the case. I'll let you know what happens. AnnasmomGreat idea. I don't know which Cable provider there is in that area, but in Solano County we have Comcast Cable. They have a local channel that is for local ads, birthday wishes, notices of city hall meetings, Solano County's most wanted., etc... the "page" changes every 10 seconds or so. I am wondering if you might want to contact the Cable company and see if they have the same thing there. They may even do it free considering the reason, but I don't think its very expensive anyway. Just a thought.

Edited to add:
You may want to contact the local newspaper also and talk to someone in Classifieds. Tell them you are considering purchasing some space in the Personals to look for your missing daughter that is now a cold case and you need their help in deciding what info to include to keep costs at a minimum since you do not have LE assistance or a financial backing from a Missing Persons Organization (Polly Klaas, Carol Sund, etc)
I can betcha the person that assists you will transfer you to a reporter to do a story. It can't hurt to try.

[Dr. Doogie]

Today I had the idea of making up a little flyer saying that we were looking into Anna's disappearance again and giving contact information. I thought I'd put one in each mailbox along Purisima Creek Road, asking the residents if they remember anything or have ever observed anything which might relate to the case. I'll let you know what happens. Annasmom
That seems like a great idea. Much in same way that Annasbro remembered new information, someone else may have info that they assumed we already had that could add to our investigation. Good thinking!

[SherlockJr]

Any updates on running ads on cable television or the flyers?

[Annasmom]

Any updates on running ads on cable television or the flyers?Sherlock, I'm trying to get the flyer together. Meanwhile, Kelly has included Anna's story in a trucking magazine and other places and the San Jose organization has put out their own flyers. Thanks for the reminder, though!

[itsreenw]

I have been behind the scenes trying to find anything/anyone that may have been involved. While my heart tells me it was George & George, I want to remain open minded. Has the serial killer, Phillip Joseph Hughes, Jr been considered? His victims were all from the bay area. The timeline fits but the ages are off (9-25). I believe Anna is alive and well. I hate to even consider anything different but we have to be realistic.

[Dr. Doogie]

I have been behind the scenes trying to find anything/anyone that may have been involved. While my heart tells me it was George & George, I want to remain open minded. Has the serial killer, Phillip Joseph Hughes, Jr been considered? His victims were all from the bay area. The timeline fits but the ages are off (9-25). I believe Anna is alive and well. I hate to even consider anything different but we have to be realistic.
All things must be considered and the possibility that Anna was a victim of a predator is something that requires examination. I have not specifically looked at Hughes (though I will now).

Early on (before evidence led us to focus on George Waters and Brody), I stated that if Anna's disappearance was a stranger abduction, we needed to take a closer look at Cynthia Sumpter who was missing out of San Jose about a year after Anna went missing. Sumpter was a six year old who went missing from her front yard, never to be found. Little information is available about the Sumpter case beyond the usual missing posters at the various websites. If anyone has a desire to take a look at her case and report anything that seems to relevant, that may be a worthwhile persuit.

I also recieved a 1974 article from a poster concerning a six year old who was abducted by a predator (she was released later that day) in Santa Clara. The article references a third young girl who was kidnapped and murdered in San Jose a couple of weeks earlier. Police believed that the two cases were related. The article is pdf file (which I cannot post on my usual sight for downloads) - if anyone wants to read it, please email a request to drdoogief@earthlink.net and I will forward it to you.

What all of this means is that there was probably a serial kidnapper/murderer of young girls operating in the year following Anna's disappearance about forty miles from Half Moon Bay. If we had not found the evidence pointing toward the two Georges, this would be the most likely (yet horrific) scenario for investigation.

I do not believe that this is what happened. I believe that Anna was alive for (at least) a significant period of time after her abduction, and I have faith that she is alive today. The evidence is too strong for Waters' and Brody's involvement, and I deduce that they would not have knowingly physically harmed her.

[Dr. Doogie]

I just did a prelimanary search concerning Phillip Joseph Hughes Jr. My immediate reaction was that this is not related. His known victims were older and had brown hair. His apparent motivation was revenge against a former girlfriend, so his victims shared common physical characteristics with her.

His name is mentioned in the disappearance of a nine-year-old, but that is the only child mentioned (and the location is in a different area then where he was known to operate, so I have my doubts concerning his involvement with that case).

[SherlockJr]

I have been behind the scenes trying to find anything/anyone that may have been involved. While my heart tells me it was George & George, I want to remain open minded. Has the serial killer, Phillip Joseph Hughes, Jr been considered? His victims were all from the bay area. The timeline fits but the ages are off (9-25). I believe Anna is alive and well. I hate to even consider anything different but we have to be realistic.
I looked into Phillip Hughes several months back. I remember the timeline fit. Is he the one who was found guilty of 12 people and confessed there were more? He kinda got put on the back burner when the "plan" was discovered in the BFH.

[SherlockJr]

Early on (before evidence led us to focus on George Waters and Brody), I stated that if Anna's disappearance was a stranger abduction, we needed to take a closer look at Cynthia Sumpter who was missing out of San Jose about a year after Anna went missing. Sumpter was a six year old who went missing from her front yard, never to be found. Little information is available about the Sumpter case beyond the usual missing posters at the various websites. If anyone has a desire to take a look at her case and report anything that seems to relevant, that may be a worthwhile persuit.
This reminds me of something Kyresearcher sent to me a couple months ago. She found a woman living in Texas who's pic was a dead ringer for Sumpter. We conversed back and forth with e-mail and after showing her a pic of Sumpter, she was shocked to see the resemblance also. However this woman was born several years earlier. And this woman didn't go ballistic! Good work by Kyresearcher!

[Dr. Doogie]

I looked into Phillip Hughes several months back. I remember the timeline fit. Is he the one who was found guilty of 12 people and confessed there were more? He kinda got put on the back burner when the "plan" was discovered in the BFH.
I believe that he was convicted of three murders. I don't think he has confessed to any additional. The timeframe does fit, but the M.O. seems different.

http://www.crimezzz.net/serialkiller_news/H/HUGHES_phillip_joseph_jr.php

[Elberethe]

I know alot of thought and work has gone into the theory that Brody/Waters had something to do with Anna's disapperance and I really don't see that as a bad avenue to explore. However, I have to share some doubts I have on this and push this 3rd theory back to the top.

I really am not feeling that Brody/Waters were involved in the actual disapperance, although they certainly are strange bedfellows. I don't know if it is just the recent event with John Karr coming forward and being so weird or what seems to me to be quite a few missing showing up close to home lately, but I had a dream about this. I will preface this by saying I'm not a psychic or anything or hold much faith in such things. I'm more inclined to believe my dream came because I have Anna so much in thought and events of late are starting to wrap themselves around her and this is how it comes out.

I was, in the dream, researching this case and came upon the information that one of the men was overheard to say, "Glad the tot is dead" .. not sure if this is rumor or exactly correct but I've read it here obviously and incorporated it into my subconcious enough for it to start a dream. From there, I'm a private eye (haha yeah, right) and spying on them and it dawns on me that they are clueless what happened to her. Somehow, my private eye self knows she is still alive and if they believe she is dead; then there can be no connection.

Next, I'm hiking out in your area. I have actually walked the beach all along that stretch and others when I was younger (Santa Rosa resident here). This time I was not on the beach though and more around the area you live and in the woods. I decide to look for clues to her (no longer a private eye but now a concerned citizen). As I search, I come to the creek and realize that I'm wasting my time. She is not here. She wasn't brought here and there are no clues to her here.

So, I go right up to your house. (Dreams are great for getting around fast). I am now a spirit type person and can't be seen or knock on your door, but I don't need to. As a spirit, I know you already know this and I don't have to tell you what you already know. I travel down the road a bit and I realize with crystal clarity that Anna is nearby. Just like so many others found near home, she is also near home.

My spirit self becomes torn between rather to go back to tell you this or to move next to where Anna actually is. It then becomes one of those kinda dreams where you are looking for something but can't find it and I wake up as is typical in that type of dream without ever having found what I was seeking.

I could interpret this as meaning I have nothing to tell you and no way to help you and this is how it immediately feels when I think about the dream. Just that hopeless feeling you get when you are not in control and can't do anything. Yet, I have this nagging feeling that I was given something to tell you.

I don't know if she is still alive or what happened to her, but she is near. Have you moved since she disappeared? She is near where she disappeared from. I ask about moving because I feel she is near you too (as though these are seperate nearness) which makes me worry she might not be alive. Yet, due to recent news perhaps, I just strongly feel she is very much alive. Do you work near where you used to live or visit someone/something there? Did maybe just one of you (like the brother) move, but one is still there? This is what confuses me and I'm sure you probably already answered this and I have read it and it is just lost in the storage of my brain (bad place to be lost as it is a mess in there!)

I think this 3rd theory is closer to the truth then the Brody/Waters theory. I'm sorry if that isn't what you wanted to hear or doesn't fit with what you know. I strongly believe the message from my dream is:

You need to look closer to home.

Her disappearance doesn't feel strange (Brody/Waters strange), but typical of what we see in the news today.

I could just be spending too much time thinking about her in light of recent events too and totally wrong. I did feel it would be wrong not to share this with you. Please file it as you feel appropriate. You have my support whatever you do and wherever you look. I wish I was younger again and didn't have arthritis in knees so badly. I would be out there doing some walking again. I do miss that. I probably wouldn't be looking in same places you do though. I feel a need to visit stores, shops, etc. Local stuff. Maybe the beach too. Collecting flowers, driftwood, shells, pieces of colored glass. I think I would run right into her if I did.

I wonder if I would know it.

[Elberethe]

**Quite a few of the current residents of Purissima Creek Road lived there in 1973, but others have continued to live in the HMB area, yet have moved from the place on the road (Annasmom is one example). **

Ok, just found this in the Brody/Waters thread. Hope it isn't too invasive for me to ask you how far away you moved and if anyone still lives at the old place (family or otherwise). Do you visit someone back there or go back there for some reason? Like do you still have family or other friends who live out there?

[Dr. Doogie]

As Annasmom and I drove up Purissima Creek Road, she was identifying who lived in each house in 1973 and whether they still lived there. Half Moon Bay is a small community and the odds of Anna being raised there without being seen by someone who knew her are nill. (There is even a member here who was in Anna's kindergarten class and still follows the case to this day.) Your thoughts and even dreams are welcome here, but I doubt that in this case they are true.

There is always still the possibility that Anna fell into the creek, though I doubt that occured since it has been thoroughly explored numerous times without any evidence uncovered. Also, the fact that even if a body had eluded discovery in the immediate aftermath of Anna's disappearance, it would have undoubtedly been found sometime in the subsequent 33 years by a rancher or a fisherman along the creek. This also holds true if Anna were abducted by a predator and was killed in the immediate area - on the day that Annasmom and I travelled the road, there were at least two dozen cars parked at the trailhead near the farm with hikers swarming over a lot of different territory. Surely someone would have come across a body during this long period of time if it was there. (Just to be clear before any theories pop up about the hikers - the park and trails were not there in 1973. They are a relatively recent addition to the area.)

Concerning "I am glad the tot is dead" comment by George Waters to Brody: I am not sure what to make of it. It could mean that they had nothing to do with Anna's disappearance and just assumed that she was dead after a period of time, or it could mean that they were involved and knew that she was dead. Between the two choices, it makes me want to hope that they did not have anything to do with it (which would leave open the possibilty that Anna is alive). There are other, more esoteric possibilities such as "Anna" was dead, but the girl we know as Anna was alive under a different identity - one never knows for sure what these loons meant when they spoke. I personally have just set that statement aside for the moment to allow myself the freedom to let my mind consider any possible solutions.

While we have concentrated our research on Waters and Brody, I try to remain open to other possibilities. Since the couple in the car seem to have played some role in the disappearance, we know of at least two people that were involved (four, if you believe that Waters and Brody had a hand in it). Brody and Waters are dead, but chances are that the couple in the car are still alive. Hopefully, some clue will lead us to discovering their identities which may lead us to an answer about Anna.

There is always the possibility that someone else besides these four were responsible and I have tried to explore any possibilties that arise that do not fit the Waters/Brody theory. I have received names and reports of incidents that may be related to the case from various researchers here and have tried to slueth out any connections to Anna. I have quietly looked into the Church of Satan, the Temple of Set, and the People's Temple as possibile places that may have had motivation to abduct a little girl. I have looked at the Zodiac Killer and other serial killers who operated in the same general time and space as Anna's disappearance. I have examined other missing children from this same era and any sexual predators who may have been in the area. While anything is possible, nothing makes as much sense to me as an abduction orchestrated by Brody and Waters for some sort of financial gain.

[Annasmom]

**Quite a few of the current residents of Purissima Creek Road lived there in 1973, but others have continued to live in the HMB area, yet have moved from the place on the road (Annasmom is one example). **

Ok, just found this in the Brody/Waters thread. Hope it isn't too invasive for me to ask you how far away you moved and if anyone still lives at the old place (family or otherwise). Do you visit someone back there or go back there for some reason? Like do you still have family or other friends who live out there?

Elberethe, I have read your dream posting twice now and will read it again. Our family moved from the place Anna disappeared about a year later. I am the only one from the nuclear family still close by, and I now live maybe 14 miles away from Purisima Canyon. I do still know one family which lives in Purisima, and as I said in the other thread, Doogie and I drove up and down the road several times last Saturday. We also drove down the canyon road which joins up with Purisima. There is yet another canyon roughly parallel with Purisima which is much more rural and spread out and which connects at one end with Highway 35 (Skyline) and at the other end with the Coast Highway. Doogie and I had no reason to travel down this long, winding road, since we were mostly collecting post office box numbers for the mailing of the flier informing neighbors that the search for Anna was still on, and giving them contact information. These were mailed Monday.
I am very touched that Anna's case is so much on your mind that you dreamed about it. I appreciate your insight.

[Elberethe]

Hi Doogie.

Hope I didn't offend you. It certainly was not my intention and I see how much work and how much leads you have followed. No one can question how hard you have worked on this. I sure hope you aren't missing time with Annasmom to talk to me! HAH! I should just drive out there if that is the case. Seriously, though, it was just a dream and while it left some very strong impressions on me (as such dreams would do), it doesn't equate to any real information.

I will be honest with you, and say I have always (since first reading about this) believed she fell in the creek and just wasn't found. It is possible, however unlikely it may be. Mud could have covered her .. slides .. covered by debris and she never be found. The earth is unforgiving in this way. It gives up only what it wants to give up.

After the dream, I'm certain she is not there though. I can't explain why or offer any logical reasons such as you do. It did make me start to think in other directions more seriously, however. I'm also just as certain the Brody/Waters team didn't have anything to do with it. I know that goes against your gut feeling and so much work and I'm very sorry for that. I mean no disrespect to what you have done. None at all.

I also don't think they could purposely hurt/kill her either from what I have read here. Do you feel different? Kidnap, yes. I just strongly believe they are clueless. Did Waters really say that about being glad the tot was dead? He is a weird one, but honestly, Doogie, I can't see him feeling that way. I could see him saying more to the effect of being glad he doesn't have to pay child support, but that is way different then being glad someone (your own child) is dead. Not doubting you; just find it very hard to wrap myself around that really being said.

I also have been to Half Moon Bay. I lived there for a bit in the mid 80's and no one knew it. Care to know how? Yes, it is a small community and I agree if she was in school someone would recognize her. However, I strongly disagree that if she is there that someone would notice and know who she was. While not heavily populated (when I was there) it is very spread out and has very remote areas. The community may be close, but I assure you that not everyone living there is part of that community. (Unless an aweful lot changed in 10 years .. it sure did here in SR). At that time, I believe transients (farm workers for 1) were common there. It has also been a bit of a "touristy" area (even then). I mean there were visitors to the area who didn't stay long.

Besides, even in the closest of communities, we don't really know everyone. People are often not who they appear to be. How often, lately, have you heard neighbors of some community exclaim to the effect "he/she was so nice. I can't believe they would do such a thing?!"

How does that tie in to her still being in area? I have my ideas. Again, no proof though. I just think this needs to be explored more and I know you are doing all you can. I'm not questioning your efforts at all. You have done an amazing job. :clap: :dance: I'm only thinking in another direction .. as a woman, I will call that my perogative. ;)

[Dr. Doogie]

One more quick example of the highlights (lowlights?) of what has been looked into: the musician Neil Young lives in the area not far from the place were Anna disappeared. Somewhere, in the back of this dustbin I call a mind, I recalled that a member of the band Crazy Horse (whom Neil records with frequently) was denied entry into the United States due to legal troubles and thought I remembered that it was for statutory rape. Letting my mind go to the possibilty that the bandmember could have been in the area in January 1973, I checked the discography of Neil to see if he could have been recording an album at his ranch at that time with Crazy Horse. I could never locate any information about the nature of the bandmember's legal troubles, so eventually I gave up this pursuit. (Annasmom, sometimes ya' just gotta look for zebras too.)

[Elberethe]

Thankyou for answering that question Annasmom. That makes sense to me that you are still in the area but not the exact same place. I don't want to give you any false hopes or such, but it does make sense with what I dreamed and believe.

Also, I think anyone who reads your story and comes to know Anna through your eyes, is going to always have you both on their mind. All the more reason to get that book out there. You can never have too many eyes watching. If I touched you at all then it is only because you (and Anna) have touched me.

If there is anything I can do, please don't hesitate to ask. I realize I get on odd tangents at times. I have a tendency to approach things from a different perspective then other people. Sometimes seems a curse, but I have also seen it have good results for others. I'm Native American so please forgive my awkward way of approaching problems. Most is cultural differences.

By the by, you can kick the AC out there anytime now .. it is getting kinda warm inland here ;)

[Dr. Doogie]

Hi Doogie.

Hope I didn't offend you. It certainly was not my intention and I see how much work and how much leads you have followed. No one can question how hard you have worked on this.
I am not offended at all - I just wanted to demonstrate that other theories were being looked at in addition to the Waters/Brody theory. I appreciate any input that people can offer.

[Annasmom]

One more quick example of the highlights (lowlights?) of what has been looked into: the musician Neil Young lives in the area not far from the place were Anna disappeared. Somewhere, in the back of this dustbin I call a mind, I recalled that a member of the band Crazy Horse (whom Neil records with frequently) was denied entry into the United States due to legal troubles and thought I remembered that it was for statutory rape. Letting my mind go to the possibilty that the bandmember could have been in the area in January 1973, I checked the discography of Neil to see if he could have been recording an album at his ranch at that time with Crazy Horse. I could never locate any information about the nature of the bandmember's legal troubles, so eventually I gave up this pursuit. (Annasmom, sometimes ya' just gotta look for zebras too.) Couldn't agree more, my friend, especially when you've looked at most of the horses. But our dream author has a legitimate point. Lots of Coastside kids are home-schooled and don't really circulate in the community. I just ran into a piano parent a couple of days ago and said I couldn't believe how seldom I saw any one of my hundreds of (I'm not exaggerating) former piano students, some of which still live here. I accused them of hiding when they saw me, still feeling guilty about not practicing.

[Elberethe]

One more quick example of the highlights (lowlights?) of what has been looked into: the musician Neil Young lives in the area not far from the place were Anna disappeared. Somewhere, in the back of this dustbin I call a mind, I recalled that a member of the band Crazy Horse (whom Neil records with frequently) was denied entry into the United States due to legal troubles and thought I remembered that it was for statutory rape. Letting my mind go to the possibilty that the bandmember could have been in the area in January 1973, I checked the discography of Neil to see if he could have been recording an album at his ranch at that time with Crazy Horse. I could never locate any information about the nature of the bandmember's legal troubles, so eventually I gave up this pursuit. (Annasmom, sometimes ya' just gotta look for zebras too.)

I didn't know he lived near there! Yes, a very strange angle to pursue. You are certainly looking at things I would not think much of. I suppose that is possible, but I like your "Occums Razor" thing and really think this is as simple as abduction by someone wanting a child. No one famous or terribly weird involved. No cults or such. Just someone desperate and selfish. Someone who doesn't feel any empathy for others; who puts their own needs above those of others. Someone you wouldn't know because you would never run in those circles. Make sense?

[Annasmom]

If there is anything I can do, please don't hesitate to ask. I realize I get on odd tangents at times. I have a tendency to approach things from a different perspective then other people. Sometimes seems a curse, but I have also seen it have good results for others. I'm Native American so please forgive my awkward way of approaching problems. Most is cultural differences.

By the by, you can kick the AC out there anytime now .. it is getting kinda warm inland here ;)
Elberethe, it's 50 degrees where we are! One of my sons (Annasbro) was adopted by a Lakota tribe in North Dakota and given the name Plays the Earth. He did some recordings with them. I have always believed that Native Americans are more open to dream messages than some of the rest of us.

[Dr. Doogie]

Elberethe and your point is well taken. I guess that I may have been hasty in saying "nill" - a more thoughtful answer would have been "unlikely" (but this case gets more unlikely everyday!). This makes the article in the HMB Review even more important. Annasmom, have you seen any hard-copies of the new edition yet?

[Elberethe]

Couldn't agree more, my friend, especially when you've looked at most of the horses. But our dream author has a legitimate point. Lots of Coastside kids are home-schooled and don't really circulate in the community. I just ran into a piano parent a couple of days ago and said I couldn't believe how seldom I saw any one of my hundreds of (I'm not exaggerating) former piano students, some of which still live here. I accused them of hiding when they saw me, still feeling guilty about not practicing.

We are so on the same wavelength, I don't have to tell you much. My dream told me that too .. this is stuff you already know. I think maybe just kinda put on a back burner. Yes, homeschooling is what I thought as one possibility. If any schooling at all (depending on how low life this person is and face it .. anyone stealing a child is pretty low life). In and out of the community is another possibility. I'm sure you can think of just as many other possibles.

Please don't feel hopeless though. There is a link somewhere. Something that connects this person to you. I don't believe for a minute this was a random abduction. They had opportunity. Just my gut there.

[Dr. Doogie]

One of my sons (Annasbro) was adopted by a Lakota tribe in North Dakota and given the name Plays the Earth.I was chased off tribal land once in Nevada and was given the name "Plays with Self", but thats a different story...:liar:

[Elberethe]

Elberethe, it's 50 degrees where we are! One of my sons (Annasbro) was adopted by a Lakota tribe in North Dakota and given the name Plays the Earth. He did some recordings with them. I have always believed that Native Americans are more open to dream messages than some of the rest of us.

Oh what a wonderful name! You must be very proud of him (I am)! I never had an American Native name. What an honor. My son just got home from school (15 years) and saw your post and now he wants a Native American name. Hahah. I will be busy now, as you can imagine. Glad we got to talk some.

Again, keeping you in my prayers and thoughts. I really feel a new hope for the return of Anna. Maybe your son can ask the Lakota to give her a name. I would love to know what they come up with. I bet it would be beautiful!

[Elberethe]

I was chased off tribal land once in Nevada and was given the name "Plays with Self", but thats a different story...:liar:

:doh: /comfort Doogie. :blowkiss: Funny guy.

[Annasmom]

Elberethe and your point is well taken. I guess that I may have been hasty in saying "nill" - a more thoughtful answer would have been "unlikely" (but this case gets more unlikely everyday!). This makes the article in the HMB Review even more important. Annasmom, have you seen any hard-copies of the new edition yet? I'm printing it off the web page at this very moment (www.hmbreview.com). WebSleuthers, I have to tell you that both Doogie and I are MUCH better looking than that picture. It looks like a good story to me. What do you think?

[Dr. Doogie]

Here is a direct link to the story:

http://hmbreview.com/articles/2006/09/20/news/local_news/story02.txt

I haven't read it yet, but the fact that they cropped the picture to remove the top of my head - what they missed is a full, flowing head of hair that would make Sampson envious. :liar:

[Elberethe]

awww Doogie. /comfort It makes it look like you are bald! It is a good picture though and it is so good to put a face to the people I feel such a connection to. The story is great! They put alot of information in there! This writer really cares.

I'm going to read it again. Have to start dinner though~ haha.

Congratulations on getting the story posted! Wonderful job! :dance: :dance:

[Elberethe]

Doogie is going to get me more information on Craig when he gets home. I will forward that info to anyone who wants it or I'm sure you can get it from Doogie too. I like to continue any discussion of Craig on this thread so as not to interfere with what others are doing.

I also think it would be a very good idea to explore any other people who were in the area or on the property around the time of the disappearance. I am in no way saying to stop checking out Brody/Waters. That needs to be done. I just think we have enough people interested that we can pursue other ideas at the same time.

My apologies in advance if I'm stepping on any toes. I'm more amateur then any one here, but I just strongly feel that this theory (other stranger abduction) needs to be explored a bit more.

Thanks for understanding,
Elbe

[Elberethe]

Anyone who wants to see the info Doogie sent me, just drop me an email at elberethe@sbcglobal.net and I will forward it to you.

I will say this much. My hinky meter is still pointing at Craig, but it did drop a couple of volts. Meaning, I can see a bit better now why he is being dismissed as involved. A bit.

I could be interesting to get everyone's thoughts on it, but I get the feeling this is not something Doogie wants discussed in a public forum? I still have my reservations and others may too, but how do you discuss them without offending someone who might be innocent?

I do appreciate Doogie forward the info to me and it did give me reason to pause. Thankyou Sir.

Btw. my hinky meter is very sensitive so don't fret too much about it. :crazy:

[Dr. Doogie]

Anyone who wants to see the info Doogie sent me, just drop me an email at elberethe@sbcglobal.net and I will forward it to you.
The info that I sent includes phone numbers and addresses that we have obtained for him through Zabasearch and other public databases. This is info that any of you could access on your own, but I would request that nobody contact him directly. When it becomes time to make contact, I would like to do that myself - I don't want to scare him off with numerous strangers contacting him all at once. Thanks!

[Elberethe]

The info that I sent includes phone numbers and addresses that we have obtained for him through Zabasearch and other public databases. This is info that any of you could access on your own, but I would request that nobody contact him directly. When it becomes time to make contact, I would like to do that myself - I don't want to scare him off with numerous strangers contacting him all at once. Thanks!

hahaha! Me contact him!? I'm chicken! :chicken: :chicken: No, I'm looking for something that might make YOU want to contact him. I do all my work behind the scenes. hehe. :p

[Dr. Doogie]

Ronald Middleton is a man who was convicted of murdering an acquaintance over a monetary dispute in the 1990's while living on Purissima Creek Road. He buried his victim under an earthen dam on the creek.

This occured just down the road from where Anna disappeared twenty years earlier. Because this put a murderer in the neighborhood and since Middleton disposed of his victim's body in the creek, I wanted to take a closer look at him as a possible perp in Anna's case.

The questions centered around: 1) Was he a resident of PC Road in 1973?, and 2) Did his rap sheet contain any sexual offenses or crimes against children?

I received the following email from the San Mateo County Sheriff Detective assigned Anna's case:

"I was not able to determine where Middleton lived in 1973 and there is
nothing suggesting he would be involved with crimes against children."

It looks like this angle is not worth persuing any more.

[Dr. Doogie]

After the abduction and murder of Polly Klaas, Annasmom requested that the San Mateo County Sheriff Department look into the possibilty that Richard Allen Davis be reviewed for possible involvement in Anna's disappearance. Davis was a resident of the very small community of La Honda, which is just south of where Anna and Annasmom lived. The SMCSD determined that he was incarcerated on the day that Anna was taken.

According to the Wikipedia article on Davis, this may be incorrect. It shows:

"Arrest record

[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Richard_Allen_Davis&action=edit&section=2)] 1960s


March 6 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_6), 1967 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967): At age 12, Davis has his first contact with law enforcement when he was arrested for burglary (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burglary) in Chowchilla (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chowchilla%2C_California), where he lived with his grandmother.
May 24 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_24), 1967 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967): Arrested again for forging a $ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_dollar)10 money order (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_order). He stayed briefly in juvenile hall (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Youth_detention_center) before his father moved him and his siblings to La Honda (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Honda%2C_California).
November 15 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/November_15), 1969 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1969): Arrested for the burglary of a La Honda home.
November 16 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/November_16), 1969 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1969): The first of several occasions when Davis' father turns Davis and his older brother over to juvenile authorities for incorrigibility.
[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Richard_Allen_Davis&action=edit&section=3)] 1970s


September 15 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_15), 1970 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1970): Arrested for participating in a motorcycle theft. A probation officer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Probation_officer) and judge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judge) accept his father's suggestion that he enlist in the Army (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Army) to avoid being sent to the California Youth Authority.
July 1971 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1971#July): Entered the Army. His military record reflects several infractions for AWOL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AWOL), fighting, failure to report, and morphine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morphine) use.
August 1972 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1972#August): General discharge from the military.
January 16, 1973: Anna disappears. (added by Dr. Doogie)
February 12 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/February_12), 1973 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973): Arrested in Redwood City (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redwood_City%2C_California) for public drunkenness and resisting arrest. Placed on one-year summary probation.
April 21 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/April_21), 1973 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973): Arrested in Redwood City for being a minor in possession of liquor, burglary and contributing to the delinquency of a minor. Charged with trespassing, later dismissed.
August 13 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/August_13), 1973 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973): Arrested in Redwood City leaning against hedges extremely intoxicated. Released upon sobriety.
October 24 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_24), 1973 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973): Arrested in Redwood City on traffic warrants. Between April and October, he was implicated in more than 20 La Honda burglaries, leading a probation officer to report that residents were so angry at him, he might be in danger if he returned to La Honda. He pleaded guilty to burglary and was sentenced to six months in county jail and placed on three years' probation.
May 13 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_13), 1974 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1974): Arrested for burglarizing South San Francisco (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco%2C_California) High School. He was sent to the California Medical Facility, Vacaville (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacaville%2C_California), for a 90-diagnostic study. A county probation officer recommended prison, but proceedings were suspended when Davis enrolled in a Veterans Administration (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veterans_Administration) alcohol treatment program. He quit on the second day.
September 16 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_16), 1974 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1974): Sentenced to one year in county jail for the school burglary. He was allowed to leave jail to attend a Native American (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_Americans_in_the_United_States) drug and alcohol treatment program. He failed to return, leaving behind two angry fellow inmates who had given Davis money to buy drugs and bring the contraband back to jail.
March 2 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_2), 1975 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975): After being released, the two inmates tracked Davis down and shot him in the back. He was rearrested on a probation violation for failing to return to jail. Later, he testified against the inmates, earning him the epithet of "snitch" from fellow inmates. He was placed in protective custody.
April 11 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/April_11), 1975 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975): Arrested for parole (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parole) violation.
July 11 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_11), 1975 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975): Arrested for auto theft and possession of marijuana (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis_%28drug%29). Received 10-day jail sentence.
August 13 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/August_13), 1975 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975): Probation revoked after arrest for San Francisco burglary and grand theft. He was sentenced to a term of from six months to 15 years in prison.
August 2 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/August_2), 1976 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1976): Paroled from Vacaville.
September 24 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_24), 1976 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1976): Abducted Frances Mays, a 26-year-old legal secretary, from the South Hayward BART (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bay_Area_Rapid_Transit) station and attempted to sexually assault (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_assault) her. She escaped and hailed a passing car in which California Highway Patrol (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Highway_Patrol) Officer Jim Wentz was riding. Wentz arrested Davis."
According to this timeline, Davis was free on January 16. (I recognize that this timeline may be incomplete, but it was compiled from evidence entered into testimony during Davis's trial so I tend to give it more credence than your usual Wiki information.)

As you can see from the highlighted sections, Davis was very active in burgalizing homes very near Purisima Creek Road as early as April 1973. Since he was living in the area, it is certainly possible and likely probable that he was active in January 1973 in the same crimes in the area.

Map: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=la+honda,+ca+to+purisima+creek+road,+half+moon+b ay,+ca&sll=37.351601,-122.259293&sspn=0.343875,0.735397&ie=UTF8&ll=37.361971,-122.291222&spn=0.171914,0.367699&t=h&z=12

Two things that point away from Davis as a suspect are (1) he doesn't seem to have started crimes of sexual nature until late 1976, and (2) all of his sexual victims were adults or, in the case of Polly, at least post-pubescent. Nothing indicates that he was attracted to girls the age of Anna.

[Lucy's mom]

Hi Dr. Doogie!

I don't think I've posted on here before but I have been a lurker for a few months. I admire you (and everyone else) for helping Anna's mom locate her daughter. :clap:
I just had one comment to make about RAD. Since he was obviously familiar with the area, he very easily could have been Anna's abductor but like you said, it doesn't match the profile of his other victims. However, he could have realized that after the Anna abduction and that's why he chose older victims later. Just my two cents...but for some reason, I tend to lean more toward the two George's over anything else. I also think Anna is alive but just has no idea who she is and where she came from. GB's obsession over her could have led them to kidnap her and then place Anna with a woman friend of his where this woman would take over as Anna's mother and still allow GB and GW to have contact with her. This woman could be the same woman Anna's brother saw try to lure her in the car.

[SeekingJana]

I was a bit startled when I read the outline of what happened at your family home on the day that Anna disappeared.
Could you tell me if you lived on some type of communal property?

These are the people you have noted as being on your premises who are NOT family members on the day Anna disappeared:
1) Horsewoman #1- attacked by rooster
2) Horseperson #2
3) Horseman #3- killed your rooster and threw him in the creek ( hmmm)
4) Friend #1 ( with baby from SF)
5) Friend #2 ( arrived with #4 and baby).
6) Person described as " Ranch Resident", apparently not a family member
7) Carpenter friend of your husband Joe's- said he stopped to look at the view and saw an old van with 2 men in it near your residence.


Annasmom, we have SEVEN non-family adults in your home on the day that Anna disappeared. Was this amount of activity normal for your home?
If so, have you made mental notes of every person in and out of your residence for perhaps a 4-6 month time before Anna disappeared?

If this amount of activity is or is not normal for your home, how likely is it that someone would be casing your house and snatch a verbal 6 year old with all of these people in and out all day long? Was Anna friendly with GeorgeW or not at this point?
Have you checked out the people who were in your house that day? The resident? The horsepeople?

I know that George is the focus, and I know why, of course. But.. I had no idea that you had this amount of activity going on where Anna was exposed to many people, if this was a usual type of day for you.
I know it was a different time in our history, and I know you lived on a farm which may have been a working farm with items sold or land parceled out, but 7 non- related people in one day alone makes me wonder who else might have seen Anna from the age of 5-6... maybe a couple who couldn't have children, and saw her briefly, and took her.

It SEEMS obvious that she probably went with someone she knew, because you never heard her scream or protest.
However, she could have been gagged or drugged with something like a Chloroform soaked cloth over her nose and mouth. I believe Chloroform was easy to obtain back then. Also, GeorgeW had a friend at one point who was an anestheiologist. The friend would have had access to fast acting inhalant anesthetics especially for children's anesthesia.

[Annasmom]

I was a bit startled when I read the outline of what happened at your family home on the day that Anna disappeared.
Could you tell me if you lived on some type of communal property?

These are the people you have noted as being on your premises who are NOT family members on the day Anna disappeared:
1) Horsewoman #1- attacked by rooster
2) Horseperson #2
3) Horseman #3- killed your rooster and threw him in the creek ( hmmm)
4) Friend #1 ( with baby from SF)
5) Friend #2 ( arrived with #4 and baby).
6) Person described as " Ranch Resident", apparently not a family member
7) Carpenter friend of your husband Joe's- said he stopped to look at the view and saw an old van with 2 men in it near your residence.


Annasmom, we have SEVEN non-family adults in your home on the day that Anna disappeared. Was this amount of activity normal for your home?
If so, have you made mental notes of every person in and out of your residence for perhaps a 4-6 month time before Anna disappeared?

If this amount of activity is or is not normal for your home, how likely is it that someone would be casing your house and snatch a verbal 6 year old with all of these people in and out all day long? Was Anna friendly with GeorgeW or not at this point?
Have you checked out the people who were in your house that day? The resident? The horsepeople?

I know that George is the focus, and I know why, of course. But.. I had no idea that you had this amount of activity going on where Anna was exposed to many people, if this was a usual type of day for you.
I know it was a different time in our history, and I know you lived on a farm which may have been a working farm with items sold or land parceled out, but 7 non- related people in one day alone makes me wonder who else might have seen Anna from the age of 5-6... maybe a couple who couldn't have children, and saw her briefly, and took her.

It SEEMS obvious that she probably went with someone she knew, because you never heard her scream or protest.
However, she could have been gagged or drugged with something like a Chloroform soaked cloth over her nose and mouth. I believe Chloroform was easy to obtain back then. Also, GeorgeW had a friend at one point who was an anestheiologist. The friend would have had access to fast acting inhalant anesthetics especially for children's anesthesia.
Again, sorry for the late answer. I was lost without my computer. We lived on a 640-acre ranch which had three private residences. Nos. 1, 2, and 2 were never in our house, but were questioned by police. Our friends with the baby were a married couple who came for a brief visit. The other person was our neighbor and someone who came looking for her when he didn't find her in his own house. This person, the last person to see Anna that we know of, has been questioned extensively and forum members have even spoken to him by telephone.

In answer to your question, our house did not usually have so many visitors, but the farm itself was used by horse boarders, hunters and a motorcycle club, so there was lots of traffic from Purisima Creek Road down the private road of the farm (I have a drawing posted some time in the past couple of weeks which shows how things were laid out.)

[SeekingJana]

Again, sorry for the late answer. I was lost without my computer. We lived on a 640-acre ranch which had three private residences. Nos. 1, 2, and 2 were never in our house, but were questioned by police. Our friends with the baby were a married couple who came for a brief visit. The other person was our neighbor and someone who came looking for her when he didn't find her in his own house. This person, the last person to see Anna that we know of, has been questioned extensively and forum members have even spoken to him by telephone.

In answer to your question, our house did not usually have so many visitors, but the farm itself was used by horse boarders, hunters and a motorcycle club, so there was lots of traffic from Purisima Creek Road down the private road of the farm (I have a drawing posted some time in the past couple of weeks which shows how things were laid out.)

Wow, so there was a lot of traffic in and around your property most of the time, with the horse boarders, hunters and motorcyclists. That's a huge parcel of land.

It's amazing that you had several people coming and going that day in your home, yet Anna still managed to be snatched right out from under your eyes. This gives a lot of weight to someone she knew being the abductor, IMO.

One thing I thought about and don't mean any disrespect in bringing this up, knowing that there probably is no definitive answer except that no remains were found in or near the creek: About the rooster which was killed earlier in the day and thrown into the creek. Is there any chance that Anna would have seen the dead rooster caught on brush or debris and gone into the creek after it? I remember how I was at that age.. We lived on a farm with creeks and animals, and I would not have had fear about going into a deep or fast moving creek at the age of 6, because I had played in and around it all my life. I also would not have recognized the bird as being " dead" and might have gone right in for it to try to save it.

[Dr. Doogie]

...One thing I thought about and don't mean any disrespect in bringing this up, knowing that there probably is no definitive answer except that no remains were found in or near the creek: About the rooster which was killed earlier in the day and thrown into the creek. Is there any chance that Anna would have seen the dead rooster caught on brush or debris and gone into the creek after it?...

The body of the rooster was found later farther downstream than the area of the stream that Anna had access to. It is conceivable that the bird's body hung up near the farm, but later broke loose and got hung up farther downstream for a second time.

But the fact that a 5-10 pound rooster's body was not able to be washed out to sea or to be lost in a raging stream is rather convincing evidence that Anna's 40 pound body would have also not disappeared into the creek not to be found for 35 years. The vegetation on the creek may be more plentiful today than in 1973, but my visit to the area a couple of years ago showed too many natural "snags " of trees for Anna to have been washed to sea.

[SeekingJana]

Thank you for the added info, DD.
I respect you and Annasmom and all that the two of you have done for Anna so much. I hate to ask questions, even, but it's the only way I know to learn things and maybe us all see something differently.

My best,
Maria

[Joe Ford]

The body of the rooster was found later farther downstream than the area of the stream that Anna had access to. It is conceivable that the bird's body hung up near the farm, but later broke loose and got hung up farther downstream for a second time.

But the fact that a 5-10 pound rooster's body was not able to be washed out to sea or to be lost in a raging stream is rather convincing evidence that Anna's 40 pound body would have also not disappeared into the creek not to be found for 35 years. The vegetation on the creek may be more plentiful today than in 1973, but my visit to the area a couple of years ago showed too many natural "snags " of trees for Anna to have been washed to sea.

While much has been done to tame Purissima Creek since then, it is worth mentioning this occurence that took place circa 1860, described by June Morrell in her excellent book, "Half Moon Bay Memories".

"In 1862, on the banks of Purissima Creek, the Village of Purissima rivalled Spanishtown (Half Moon Bay). That year a series of heavy storms caused the Purissima to overflow, flooding the valley, and two to three acres of land slid into the creek. Trapped in their recently completed home, the Lane family barely escaped with their lives before the rushing water claimed the house, sweeping it away.

When all was quiet again, only a piano lay undisturbed, high atop a huge redwood log. The flood washed out roads and bridges. In the aftermath, the debris of dwellings, orchards, fences, redwood trees and logs were violently hurled 70 feet over Purissima Falls and into the Pacific Ocean."

[Annasmom]

While much has been done to tame Purissima Creek since then, it is worth mentioning this occurence that took place circa 1860, described by June Morrell in her excellent book, "Half Moon Bay Memories".

"In 1862, on the banks of Purissima Creek, the Village of Purissima rivalled Spanishtown (Half Moon Bay). That year a series of heavy storms caused the Purissima to overflow, flooding the valley, and two to three acres of land slid into the creek. Trapped in their recently completed home, the Lane family barely escaped with their lives before the rushing water claimed the house, sweeping it away.

When all was quiet again, only a piano lay undisturbed, high atop a huge redwood log. The flood washed out roads and bridges. In the aftermath, the debris of dwellings, orchards, fences, redwood trees and logs were violently hurled 70 feet over Purissima Falls and into the Pacific Ocean."

June Morrall in her blog Half Moon Bay Memories has been strongly supportive of the search for Anna the past two years and has a number of links to Lulu for ordering the book Searching for Anna. I think it is probably important to point out to those who have not seen the Purisima setting in person that the terrible-sounding storm of 1862 was not the situation in January of 1973, when no houses were swept away and the pianos remained safely in their places.

[Joe Ford]

June Morrall in her blog Half Moon Bay Memories has been strongly supportive of the search for Anna the past two years and has a number of links to Lulu for ordering the book Searching for Anna. I think it is probably important to point out to those who have not seen the Purisima setting in person that the terrible-sounding storm of 1862 was not the situation in January of 1973, when no houses were swept away and the pianos remained safely in their places.
You are right, of course. The comparison may be an unfair exaggeration. I use it only to illustrate the terrifying and almost unimaginable power of rushing water and its capacity for destruction and upheaval.

[Joe Ford]

This might be a good time to point out that it is not my opinion that Anna fell into the creek and drowned. I am in complete agreement with Annasmom and the rest of you dedicated sleuthers that it is imperative the search be pursued on all fronts.

The perplexing mist surrounding Anna's vanishing has become less dense through all of your relentless researching efforts.

I think that I tend to overreact to what I sometimes feel are dismissive comments or speculations regards the creek as a viable possibility to Anna's disappearance. It is my fear that, if construed as such, no future effort will ever be expended in that direction.

I must admit that I harbor, maybe foolishly, a scenario in which someone with the wherewithal and resources, overwhelmed with compassion, steps forward to say "By Golly, I can help you there. I just happen to have a team of divers, dogs, trackers and volunteers that would just love to give the creek a go!" Maybe not likely...but not impossible.

However, please do not interpret my wishes to keep this path of exploration open as, in any way, discordant with the concurrent investigations. Our goal is to find Anna...in that we are resolute.

Once again, I am deeply indebted and grateful to all of you sleuthers and well-wishers.

Thank you.
Joe

[raf]

I wish to ask -since it seems that the Anna's abduction has not been an extemporaneous fact, but a precise plan- if in the days or months, before of abduction, Annasmom and Joe had the sensation that someone spied the house.....or the kindergarten....
thanks,
raf

[Annasmom]

I wish to ask -since it seems that the Anna's abduction has not been an extemporaneous fact, but a precise plan- if in the days or months, before of abduction, Annasmom and Joe had the sensation that someone spied the house.....or the kindergarten....
thanks,
raf
Raf, perhaps we were naive, but we paid very little attention to the constant traffic around the farm. It was possible and even probable that any number of people could have been watching either the kindergarten or the farm or both. Unfortunately, we have not been able to single out an individual which this might have been. We did establish early on, in the company of a sheriff's department employee, that it would have been possible to watch the farm from a vantage point on Higgins Canyon Road where one would not have been seen, and to time the schedule of the school bus from that point to our house.

Also, thank you so much, Joe, for clarifying your position on the search. Of course the person in the best position to assist us lives right at the place from which Anna disappeared, but she has neither come forward nor responded to several messages we have sent her, including a flyer taped to her mailbox last year.

[Cubby]

This might be a good time to point out that it is not my opinion that Anna fell into the creek and drowned. I am in complete agreement with Annasmom and the rest of you dedicated sleuthers that it is imperative the search be pursued on all fronts.

The perplexing mist surrounding Anna's vanishing has become less dense through all of your relentless researching efforts.

I think that I tend to overreact to what I sometimes feel are dismissive comments or speculations regards the creek as a viable possibility to Anna's disappearance. It is my fear that, if construed as such, no future effort will ever be expended in that direction.

I must admit that I harbor, maybe foolishly, a scenario in which someone with the wherewithal and resources, overwhelmed with compassion, steps forward to say "By Golly, I can help you there. I just happen to have a team of divers, dogs, trackers and volunteers that would just love to give the creek a go!" Maybe not likely...but not impossible.

However, please do not interpret my wishes to keep this path of exploration open as, in any way, discordant with the concurrent investigations. Our goal is to find Anna...in that we are resolute.

Once again, I am deeply indebted and grateful to all of you sleuthers and well-wishers.

Thank you.
Joe


Thank you for the honest post Joe, I understand your point completely. I too do not believe Anna went into the creek, but given the opportunity...
I have a question, and a comment. First, how much of the creek is on private property since the owner will most likely not agree to access? It was 4 miles from the farm to the ocean correct? Second, my thoughts on any volunteer who might be able to search with current technology would be Tim Miller with TES. If he and his organization were conducting a search in the area, I would by all means contact him and determine if he has equipment which might benefit an additional search of the area and was available to help. Technology has come a long way in 35+ years and his organization just recently helped locate a missing woman for which divers were unable to find her previously. (more at thread here:
http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72616)

[SideKick]

Thank you for the honest post Joe, I understand your point completely. I too do not believe Anna went into the creek, but given the opportunity...
I have a question, and a comment. First, how much of the creek is on private property since the owner will most likely not agree to access? It was 4 miles from the farm to the ocean correct? Second, my thoughts on any volunteer who might be able to search with current technology would be Tim Miller with TES. If he and his organization were conducting a search in the area, I would by all means contact him and determine if he has equipment which might benefit an additional search of the area and was available to help. Technology has come a long way in 35+ years and his organization just recently helped locate a missing woman for which divers were unable to find her previously. (more at thread here:
http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72616)


Hi Cubby,

There really isn't a reason NOT to conduct an additional search in creek, and you are right, technology has indeed come a long way since the 70's. Tim Miller is so successful and I think this is a fabulous idea to have his search team help out with Anna's search. Here is his url for those not familiar with Tim Miller, Texas EquuSearch.

http://www.texasequusearch.org/about_us.html

He may not find anything in the creek, but the farm land itself was vast, you never know.:blowkiss:

I can't wait!

[Joe Ford]

Thank you for the honest post Joe, I understand your point completely. I too do not believe Anna went into the creek, but given the opportunity...
I have a question, and a comment. First, how much of the creek is on private property since the owner will most likely not agree to access? It was 4 miles from the farm to the ocean correct? Second, my thoughts on any volunteer who might be able to search with current technology would be Tim Miller with TES. If he and his organization were conducting a search in the area, I would by all means contact him and determine if he has equipment which might benefit an additional search of the area and was available to help. Technology has come a long way in 35+ years and his organization just recently helped locate a missing woman for which divers were unable to find her previously. (more at thread here:
http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72616)
Hot damn, Cubby !!! Yours is just the kind of dust-stirring, boots-on-the-ground response that I have been hoping to hear. Bless you. Until now I had never even heard of Tim Miller or TES. I have just come from their website http://www.texasequusearch.org/ and am simply overwhelmed and impressed with their mission statement, technical capabilities, and recent successes in the field.

I sure hope that someone from the Searching for Anna team will contact them regards the possibility of becoming involved in our search. Maybe include one of Mikie's books? If I can assist financially or in any other capacity, I hereby volunteer.

Great idea, Cubby.

The acreage along the creek is primarily privately owned, with a section near the ocean in trust to a conservation organization as far as I know. I am fairly certain that the owner of Rancho Canada Verde, from whence Anna disappeared, would bow to public pressure if approached that way. It wouldn't hurt to try.

[Cubby]

You're welcome Joe. I first learned about TES simply by reading here at WS. It's my understanding they will conduct a search if contacted by family or LE. IMVHO, it would be worth someone from the Searching For Anna team to make an initial contact with details of the previous search efforts and the information obtained regarding the flow patterns of the creek etc. I don't know his schedule, or what kind of equipment he has, but it would be worth finding out more.

ETA: I agree the current owner would bow to a bit of pressure if TES was out.

I know someone here at WS who works with Tim as a volunteer and if this is something which will be pursued please let me know and I will be happy to put someone in contact with her via PM or ask she contact you via PM.

[MagicRose99]

This might be a good time to point out that it is not my opinion that Anna fell into the creek and drowned. I am in complete agreement with Annasmom and the rest of you dedicated sleuthers that it is imperative the search be pursued on all fronts.

The perplexing mist surrounding Anna's vanishing has become less dense through all of your relentless researching efforts.

I think that I tend to overreact to what I sometimes feel are dismissive comments or speculations regards the creek as a viable possibility to Anna's disappearance. It is my fear that, if construed as such, no future effort will ever be expended in that direction.

I must admit that I harbor, maybe foolishly, a scenario in which someone with the wherewithal and resources, overwhelmed with compassion, steps forward to say "By Golly, I can help you there. I just happen to have a team of divers, dogs, trackers and volunteers that would just love to give the creek a go!" Maybe not likely...but not impossible.

However, please do not interpret my wishes to keep this path of exploration open as, in any way, discordant with the concurrent investigations. Our goal is to find Anna...in that we are resolute.

Once again, I am deeply indebted and grateful to all of you sleuthers and well-wishers.

Thank you.
Joe

Joe, any of us who have been here and read thru all these threads and the book (even when it was still being written) know how hard you searched the creek and the area around the creek. We know how hard you tried to find Anna.

When you say you believe the creek did not claim her, I have to agree. Nobody would know more about this than you.

I say Annasmom is my hero... well, I gotta point out that YOU are my hero too. No father could love that little girl more than you do.

[KivaSupporter]

My gut feeling is that Anna is alive and well.

But I believe the search is an excellent idea. It would eliminate drowning as a possibility and bring the very much needed publicity to this case.

JMHO
You're welcome Joe. I first learned about TES simply by reading here at WS. It's my understanding they will conduct a search if contacted by family or LE. IMVHO, it would be worth someone from the Searching For Anna team to make an initial contact with details of the previous search efforts and the information obtained regarding the flow patterns of the creek etc. I don't know his schedule, or what kind of equipment he has, but it would be worth finding out more.

ETA: I agree the current owner would bow to a bit of pressure if TES was out.

I know someone here at WS who works with Tim as a volunteer and if this is something which will be pursued please let me know and I will be happy to put someone in contact with her via PM or ask she contact you via PM.

[Annasmom]

My gut feeling is that Anna is alive and well.

But I believe the search is an excellent idea. It would eliminate drowning as a possibility and bring the very much needed publicity to this case.

JMHO

Sorry to say that I'm under the weather and won't be able to do much the next few days, so hopefully someone else will be able to get started on this. Thank you!

[SideKick]

Sorry to say that I'm under the weather and won't be able to do much the next few days, so hopefully someone else will be able to get started on this. Thank you!


All in all, I too believe Anna is alive and out there waiting to be found. I wonder if TES could possibly come up with anything at all, any ideas people may have overlooked ... once he reads her story?

[Cubby]

Joe, any of us who have been here and read thru all these threads and the book (even when it was still being written) know how hard you searched the creek and the area around the creek. We know how hard you tried to find Anna.

When you say you believe the creek did not claim her, I have to agree. Nobody would know more about this than you.

I say Annasmom is my hero... well, I gotta point out that YOU are my hero too. No father could love that little girl more than you do.


I second this!

Here are my thoughts regarding TES. (Bluntfully honest... ) I have no clue about their equipment, technology, or how succesful they may be on a case as old as Anna's. My intial thoughts with my suggestion, was if they were in CA working on another case, I would then suggest or inquire about their technology and Mr. Millers thoughts on the matter.

If I may suggest Joe contacting them via email or phone as you Joe, have the most detailed info on what was done... the info on the silting and flow patterns of the creek. Then depending on Mr. Millers response, if he believes it is a possibility pursuing it further with Annas family and or LE.

I would love to see a go at it, if Mr. Millers belief is his equipment could be of benefit.

Am I making sense? I had 3 hours of sleep last night and am not quite awake here....

[SideKick]

Of course the person in the best position to assist us lives right at the place from which Anna disappeared, but she has neither come forward nor responded to several messages we have sent her, including a flyer taped to her mailbox last year.[/QUOTE]

Uhmm... If we can find an email I will glady write to her. I think her new website should be up in November of this year....

[Annasmom]

Of course the person in the best position to assist us lives right at the place from which Anna disappeared, but she has neither come forward nor responded to several messages we have sent her, including a flyer taped to her mailbox last year.

Uhmm... If we can find an email I will glady write to her. I think her new website should be up in November of this year....[/QUOTE] Thanks, SideKick. It should be possible to write her through her Producer, but I don't know who that is. Another thought occurred to mw: When she bought the farm, wouldn't the seller (Mickles) have had to disclose that a child would have been lost on the premises? I know you have to disclose all sorts of things in a sale of this sort. I am supposed to be on a week's bed rest and can barely type, so I'd better leave it at this. Thank you so much for all your help. Love.:blowkiss:

[SideKick]

....Another thought occurred to mw: When she bought the farm, wouldn't the seller (Mickles) have had to disclose that a child would have been lost on the premises? I know you have to disclose all sorts of things in a sale of this sort. I am supposed to be on a week's bed rest and can barely type, so I'd better leave it at this. Thank you so much for all your help. Love.:blowkiss:[/QUOTE]

About informing a current owner of a residence about legal and media happenings I'm not really sure what the laws are. Great question! One would think so tho, afterall, they should know about anything everyone else does.

I sent an email to a woman who owns a film, music company today, hopefully I will get a quick reply. If anything I would be simply interested in hearing what TES would indeed have to say about Anna's case. Getting another pro'opinion with his team to boot and their experience, I feel would be of help to us to hear another point of view.

:heart:

[Joe Ford]

Sorry to say that I'm under the weather and won't be able to do much the next few days, so hopefully someone else will be able to get started on this. Thank you!
I would be happy to initiate contact with Mr. Miller and his organization on the Family's behalf. I will also send him the book with our request for advice and information. I will, of course, stipulate that any forthcoming plans or procedures be directed to Annasmom and Dr.Doogie for consideration or approval while my role will remain as a laison.

Hopefully we will hear from them quickly. Having just come off oral surgery this morning, please allow me a few days to get reorganized before my head clears and I can get started.

Fingers crossed and breath held...

[Cubby]

Annasmom and Joe I hope you both feel better soon.

As for the question Annasmom asked regarding Mickles disclosing Anna's disappearance from the property I am 98% certain that would not be required. I had an IL RE license until about 2 years ago. Anna's disappearance would have fallen under disclosing an accident or a crime. The disclosure is essentially to provide the buyer information on material defects in the home and land. In Illinois and most states accidents occuring on or possible crimes, crimes are not currently required as it falls too closely to steering. We were never to decide what crime factor was acceptable for a buyer and were always advised to suggest a potential buyer contact the local police for that information.

I did try to find a CA sellers disclosure online and was unable to. What I did see, was that a seller must currently advise a buyer of the availablity of a registered sex offender list. My best educated guess is this is at most what is required when disclosing any criminal, potential crime, or accident. I did try a few offices to ask to be certain.. and was unable to reach anyone as it was after 5 CA time. I will try again tomorrow during regular business hours just to confirm with an agent licensed in CA.

I am certain the current owner is aware of the fact through the locals, news media and the flyers and contact attempts.

[MagicRose99]

I think JBean is into real estate... she may have the answer to these questions...

[Cubby]

I think JBean is into real estate... she may have the answer to these questions...


Thanks I will pm her first. If not, I will try reaching an agent in a few hours.

[Cubby]

I reached someone and got the answer I expected... that is a touchy subject and he refered me to the California Department of Real Estate, which must be who oversee's licensing law. They are most likely not going to answer a question so specific.... For liability purposes, we did not answer them either..

I did get to mention Anna's case to a local agent in half moon bay.

off to try the Ca dept of RE....

ETA:
Mr Kelly McKnight was kind enough to answer my questions. I found him by searching Half Moon Bay realtor. He was familiar with the area... and hopefully he might look into Anna's story. Please no one bother him! unless of course you are interested in buying in the area. He was very nice, very professional and exactly what I would have expected both as a realtor and a client.

http://www.aprhmb.com/

[MagicRose99]

I reached someone and got the answer I expected... that is a touchy subject and he refered me to the California Department of Real Estate, which must be who oversee's licensing law. They are most likely not going to answer a question so specific.... For liability purposes, we did not answer them either..

I did get to mention Anna's case to a local agent in half moon bay.

off to try the Ca dept of RE....

ETA:
Mr Kelly McKnight was kind enough to answer my questions. I found him by searching Half Moon Bay realtor. He was familiar with the area... and hopefully he might look into Anna's story. Please no one bother him! unless of course you are interested in buying in the area. He was very nice, very professional and exactly what I would have expected both as a realtor and a client.

http://www.aprhmb.com/

Keep trying JB too... she's in CA so she most likely would know the answer...

[Annasbro]

It will be good to use current technology for searching the creek. I must point out however for those of you that are not totally up to speed on the creek - It was searched at least 10 times (I lost count)by Joe and me from the farm all the way down to the ocean. This was done both in high flood type conditions as well as in low water conditions in the summer. The rooster that was tossed in the same day that Anna went missing was found on one of the first searches a day or two afterward. These first searches had groups of at least 10 -20 canvasing the whole width of the creek and taking apart any log jambs that might have snagged a body as well as divers in the area closer to the farm. As has been said, better to feel that no stones have been unturned but I feel this avenue has been pretty thoroughly explored.

[Dr. Doogie]

I believe that the creek issue has been resolved to my satisfaction, but as long as there is any question about this possibility, it provides an "easy answer" for those to whom the other possibilities are too difficult to consider.

Yesterday I spoke to a detective involved with an unrelated missing child case in the SF Bay Area not in San Mateo County. It was apparent that he had done some research into me prior to his return of my inital phone call (probably suspecting some nefarious reason as to why I would have some possibly relevent information about his case). I explained that I had become involved with researching Bay Area missing children because of my friendship "with a family whose daughter disappeared in 1973 from Half Moon Bay" (no names or other details). His immediate response was "it appeared that the daughter had fallen into the creek"! Obviously, he was (for some reason) familar with the case and that was his snap judgement.

I do not believe that a further examination of the creek will yeild any answers to what happened to Anna - its value will be in finally and definitely eliminating this as a possibilty so that people will be forced to look elsewhere for answers.

[Annasbro]

Well said Dr Doogie. I guess it still amazes me how some people continue to latch on to the creek theory so strongly, despite all of the work we have done here.

[Dr. Doogie]

I believe that all of the principals such as the family along with the people here who have closely followed the case are all in agreement that Anna did not fall into the creek. It is the people who have a casual interest but have not immersed themselves into the case like we have that may embrace the easy answer of the creek. Sometimes, law enforcement falls into that catagory (like the detective that I spoke to) and, ultimately, we need LE to be "on-board" with the other, more believable, alternatives.

[raf]

Personally I think that Anna was abudcted from a person by GB and GW order....no GB and GW in person made the abduction but they used another person for this ...
No car noise in the few minutes... no Saturn barking... nothing of nothing... but no much time passing from last Anna voice ( with cat??) and the Anna silence.... just some minute... the abducter had no much time for escaping with a child... it is no easy escaping with a child... in so little minutes...
No, no.... if I was a abducter ... I made this... : I narcotized the child and put in some part/area near immediately .. a car... or what was helpful for abduction... and when all searching the child I back and I took and carried ....
The house was watched during the first search??? I believe of not... also, just by abduction's stories, normally the guilty follow the event, the investigations.... it are not the pictures of Anna search in the 16 Jan 1973?
Nobody searched in the houses of neighbors.... yes it is impossible, but always better to search....

"the assassin always returns on the place of the crime"
and for "assassin" I mean the abductor....


I think not that Anna fall in the creek... otherwise the body would have been found... sooner or later... near or far... but found...
raf

[Annasmom]

Personally I think that Anna was abudcted from a person by GB and GW order....no GB and GW in person made the abduction but they used another person for this ...
No car noise in the few minutes... no Saturn barking... nothing of nothing... but no much time passing from last Anna voice ( with cat??) and the Anna silence.... just some minute... the abducter had no much time for escaping with a child... it is no easy escaping with a child... in so little minutes...
No, no.... if I was a abducter ... I made this... : I narcotized the child and put in some part/area near immediately .. a car... or what was helpful for abduction... and when all searching the child I back and I took and carried ....
The house was watched during the first search??? I believe of not... also, just by abduction's stories, normally the guilty follow the event, the investigations.... it are not the pictures of Anna search in the 16 Jan 1973?
Nobody searched in the houses of neighbors.... yes it is impossible, but always better to search....

"the assassin always returns on the place of the crime"
and for "assassin" I mean the abductor....


I think not that Anna fall in the creek... otherwise the body would have been found... sooner or later... near or far... but found...
raf
Raf, your clear thinking is alway reassuringl Yes all the houses of the near neighbors as well as the farm buildings were carefully searched the day Anna disappearedl. Some time later, I was baby-sitting a young girl who may or may not have known about Anna's disappearance. She said "the lady made the little girl hurry so much that she dropped her doll." When I asked the little girl if this was a dream she had or something she imagined, she could not say. But because the tracker dogs turned UPSTREAM before they quit , always imagined that someone hid in the dense vegetation near the creek and made off with Anna that way, east and toward Higgins Canyon road, possibly even on horseback. Sorry for my bad typing. I am wearing a sling on the left arm and it makes it hard to type.

[raf]

very interesting! Thanks, raf

[SideKick]

Raf, your clear thinking is alway reassuringl Yes all the houses of the near neighbors as well as the farm buildings were carefully searched the day Anna disappearedl. Some time later, I was baby-sitting a young girl who may or may not have known about Anna's disappearance. She said "the lady made the little girl hurry so much that she dropped her doll." When I asked the little girl if this was a dream she had or something she imagined, she could not say. But because the tracker dogs turned UPSTREAM before they quit , always imagined that someone hid in the dense vegetation near the creek and made off with Anna that way, east and toward Higgins Canyon road, possibly even on horseback. Sorry for my bad typing. I am wearing a sling on the left arm and it makes it hard to type.

Well, this is interesting too! I would love to have the opportunity to travel that area, east near Higgins Canyon Rd., if Anna was taken on horseback....maybe her rubber boot/s fell off? Uhmm. I am trying to clarify in my mind who this little girl was she may have been talking about. The little girl with the doll?:rolleyes:

[SideKick]

Also, Annasmom, I hope your arm is OK!
xox

[Cubby]

FWIW, I have always thought someone took Anna eastward from the yard. I am not convinced it would have been difficult for someone to gain Anna's trust easily and to have simply walked off with her to a location far enough away the sounds of a car would not have been heard. Especially with the many horse people, farm hands, motorcycle club who used area's of the farm. Even more so after having seen the following video survellience of the young 5 yr old boy who was abducted (and has since been recovered safely) from a Grocery store in VA. http://www.myfoxdc.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail?contentId=7677824&version=11&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=1.1.1

You can clearly see this child had no fear and walked out of this store holding this womans hand. I don't beleive Anna would have recognized the danger she was in when she was abducted. I don't know that many, or any 5 year old would understand. I know when my son was 5, it was difficult to ascertain his understanding of a stranger. He often thought if we said hello to someone in passing, that person was no longer a stranger.

I'm still concerned, uncertain, curious, about anyone who had any business on or near the farm, with the family, or with neighors who was unaccountable during the immediate days, weeks, months after Anna went missing. Whoever took Anna probably could not have gone back to their previous life and explained the presense of a child. Especially in the first days weeks and months.... Anna would have insisted to any other adults present she was not a child of this person and did not belong there. I wish we knew more about any adults who just 'fell off the face of the earth' following Anna's disappearance.

[Joe Ford]

FYI:


Dear Mr. Miller:

I am contacting you on behalf of the family of Anna Waters who disappeared from a ranch in California and has never been found. My name is Joe Ford and I was Anna's stepdad at the time and there the day she vanished.

Firstly, I want to offer my sincerest condolences regards the tragic fate of your own daughter. I share that wretched emptiness that comes with having a loved one snatched from your life.

I would also like to applaud the generous help and hope that you and your organization have provided to so many distressed familles.

Despite many years of searching, no trace of our Anna has ever been discovered. I learned of you and your organization while monitoring a website dedicated to searching for Anna and other missing children, http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2853569#post2853569 (http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2853569#post2853569).

I am contacting you in the hopes that you can offer advice, suggestions, or help of any kind regards our search. The details of Anna's disappearance and case history, too lengthy to be put forth here, can be found online at www.searchingforanna.com (http://www.searchingforanna.com/)

Thanking you in advance, Mr. Miller, we are indebted to you. If you would be so kind, please respond to Anna's mother at mlbenedict@att.net (mlbenedict@att.net) or myself at jf1077@aol.com (jf1077@aol.com).

Sincerely,
Joe Ford

[Cubby]

Great letter Joe! I hope you or Annasmom hear back from Mr. Miller soon. I'm looking forward to hearing his suggestions and praying he might be able to offer a go at the creek.

[SideKick]

Great letter Joe! I hope you or Annasmom hear back from Mr. Miller soon. I'm looking forward to hearing his suggestions and praying he might be able to offer a go at the creek.

:takeabow:

Joe, way to go, very nice letter to Tim Miller. If anything at all, gaining insight or suggestions to move forward is exactly what we need. I look forward to hearing his reply. Thanks for writing to him!

[JBean]

hi guys. we usually disclose murders, suicides and violent crimes when selling property here in CA. I am not familiar with this case.. so if she disappeared from the premises, I do not believe that would be required to be disclosed..but most realtors would probably disclose it anyway.

IIRC there is a time limit that you are required to report a death. Say 3 or so years. Death can negatively affect a resale property so always best to disclose.

[MagicRose99]

hi guys. we usually disclose murders, suicides and violent crimes when selling property here in CA. I am not familiar with this case.. so if she disappeared from the premises, I do not believe that would be required to be disclosed..but most realtors would probably disclose it anyway.

IIRC there is a time limit that you are required to report a death. Say 3 or so years. Death can negatively affect a resale property so always best to disclose.

Thanks JB!

[Joe Ford]

Dear Mr. Ford,

Thank you for contacting Mr. Miller. I will pass this info on to him when
I get a chance. Right now, we are in North Carolina working on several
cases, and then back to Florida for the search for Caylee Anthony. I'm
not sure when I can get a response for you from Tim, but please be patient
and Tim or I will respond.

Thank you again.

Sincerely,
Barbie Tarr
Executive Assistant
to Tim Miller
Texas EquuSearch (http://www.games.com/?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001)

[JBean]

Thanks JB!
you are welcome MR99. Funny, I asked an agent that does a lot of resale. she said she never discloses unless asked.

[Joe Ford]

A copy of Searching For Anna has today been ordered from LULU and sent to Barbie Tarr at Texas EquuSearch.

[Cubby]

Glad you are sending Barbie the book Joe. Maybe we should add that to the books sent to area..... ( I will, if you don't mind me copying and pasting. :) )

I did get another reply from a Realtor- through my old contacts here in Dupage, John Vertnik with Prudential Starck in Bloomingdale, IL.

Mr. Keeter was kind enough to send the following reply. I have included his business info as well...... and replied back to him with the links here at WS, to searchingforanna.com and half moon bay memories. Can't hurt to get the word out.

thank you Mr. Keeter! And thanks John Vertnik!


I took a little time to check out the question you asked regarding the disclosure of someone going missing from a property. The conscience of opinion is that if this is a potential crime it should be disclosed (as opposed to someone wandering off). There is no special document that addresses this issue but it could be included on the “Real Estate Transfer Disclosure Statement” (DTS) which is part of the standard package of documents filled out by the seller and reviewed by the buyer. This is the document that is used to disclose if someone has died on the property in the past three years. (The statute for death on the property only runs for the three prior years.) The TDS has space to include information not specifically listed on the document.

As I said before there is no specific requirement however if you know something it is best to disclose it. Someone will know and is bound to tell the buyer so when in doubt disclose.

Hope this helps, let me know if I can do anything else for you.

It's a great life!
Bryan M. Keeter
Personalized Not Franchised Real Estate Service
Lyon Real Estate
851 Pleasant Grove Blvd., Ste 150
Roseville, CA 95678
(916) 749-2215 Cell
(916) 787-7739 Ofc.