Possible Matches for Anna

[Dr. Doogie]

This thread will be for the discussion of specific candidates for a match to Anna. I will copy forward the relevant material from the previous thread and re-post it her in a condensed form.

[Dr. Doogie]

I first heard of Sharon Marshall in the mid-1990's when a story on her sad case appeared on Unsolved Mysteries. When I saw the show, my immediate thought was: "Could Sharon be Anna?" Unfortunately, I was not familiar with the details of my friend's missing daughter or Sharon Marshall and was reluctant to contact Anna's family with incomplete information on such a sensitive issue.

Years later, I rediscovered the Sharon Marshall case on the Doe Network website, which lead me to Matt Birkbeck's book and Websleuths. I now had a good grasp of the details of Sharon and started researching the information for Anna.

I first believed that the two could very well have been a match. Much to my surprise, others on WS had raised the same possibilty. However, further review showed me that Anna and Sharon are two separate people.

1) Anna has brown eyes, while Sharon had blue eyes.

2) Anna disappeared January 16, 1973. Franklin Floyd (Sharon's molester) was in prison on that day - he was paroled approximately one week later.

3) While some resemblence does exist between photos of Anna and Sharon, there is not a close resemblence.

Annasmom confered with Gerry Nance at the NCMEC and he directly said "Anna is not Sharon". I finally realised that trying to match up Anna and Sharon was a case of "trying to fit a square peg in to a round hole". Anna and Sharon are two different people.

[Dr. Doogie]

We discovered an woman by the name of Anna Waters living in Georgia who was the correct age on the Reunion.com website. The picture included in her profile resembled the age progression of our Anna.

After a couple of months of hunting down current contact information, we contact this Anna Waters, only to discover that she was from a long line of Waters who had lived in the town for generations. She definitely knew her parents and was not our Anna.

[Dr. Doogie]

Shortly after Anna was born, her birthfather (George Waters) and his "mentor" (George Brody) insisted that Anna's name be changed to add "Eifee" as a middle name. This word appears to have been nonsense, but was designed to bring Anna's name "numerologically" in line with Brody's. Annasmom relented on this issue only because she felt that there were more important battles to be fought than over a middle name that would never be used by anyone other than GW and GB.

Working on the hypothesis that if GW and GB were involved in Anna's disappearance, they might not have changed that middle name that was so important to them, I began an internet search for any references to "Eifee". I found a profile on a website for someone using the email address eifee_@hotmail.com. Most importantly, the profile showed that the users real first name was "Anna".

After several months of research and many false starts (there is an underline between "eifee" and the "@" sign that was not obvious on the website), I was able to locate and contact this person. It turns out that "Eifee" is a character in the Pokemon Card series and that she was an young Asian woman living in New Zealand named "Joanna". She had used the psuedonym "Anna" to protect her online privacy. She is not our Anna.

[Dr. Doogie]

If Anna were taken by someone and raised as their child, the most logical explaination for her memories of an earlier family would be "you were adopted". On that basis, we began reviewing adoption reunion websites to see if Anna could be out there looking for her birth family.

I discovered postings on several sites from a "Susan Ward". She was born in San Francisco on Sept. 25, 1967 (both the same as Anna). With the possibility that George Waters and George Brody were involved with Anna's disappearance, it was conceivable that they would not have changed Anna's birth place and date due to an occult belief in the importance of those two items. Susan listed her hair color and eyes as brown - the same as Anna (Anna had blonde hair at the time of her disappearance, but her family has the trait of hair darkening over the years and her age-progressed photo reflects the darker hair).

Unfortunately, the postings were dated from 2001 and the contact information given was not current. I was able through court documents to establish a married name and was able to locate an avenue to contact her through Reunion.com. However, she did not review her emails for a few weeks, during which I continued my research of her as possibly being Anna.

I travelled to her hometown library and reviewed high school yearbook pictures to see if she could be Anna. The pictures were inconclusive - not close enough to break out the champagne, but not far enough off to dismiss her as a candidate.

Ultimately, she did respond to my communications. It turned out that she had been with her adopted family since shortly after birth. She had pictures with that family at an earlier age than could possible if she were Anna. And her adopted parents were very open and supportive of her attempt to locate her birth parents - something that abductors would not be.

Susan Ward is a very nice young lady who is desperately seeking her original family, but she is not Anna.

[Dr. Doogie]

Delia Cly is a very nice lady who has a thread on Websleuths attempting to find her birth family. She believes that she was abducted at an early age and was raised by an abusive couple as their daughter. Because of the similarities between Delia's story and our theories of what had happened to Anna, I reviewed the details and concluded that Delia was too old to be Anna.

However, Annasmom pointed out the possibilty that if Delia were abducted, could it be possible that some or all of her siblings could have been abducted also? Delia has a "sister" named Annie Kaye who is listed as being born in March of 1967 (within six months of Anna). Further research into the whereabouts of Delia's "parents" placed the family in Modesto, CA in the early 1970's (within three hours of Half Moon Bay). They had previously lived in Washington state (which at that time had green and white license plates - see the thread concerning "Stranger Abduction - The Couple in the Car"). All of this seemed to lining up to being a possible match.

Delia was kind enough to forward pictures of Annie Kaye as a child and an adult. There were pictures of Annie Kaye at an age earlier than the age that Anna disappeared. The pictures also did not resemble Anna.

Neither Delia Cly or Annie Kaye Davis are Anna.

[SherlockJr]

Dr. Doogie, What about the Australian?

[Dr. Doogie]

Dr. Doogie, What about the Australian?
The entertainer?

[Dr. Doogie]

I received a good tip from a member concerning a possible match for Anna named Dr. Anna Waters, a sports psychologist in England. Besides having the same name, the woman's picture on her website strongly resembled the age-progressed photo of Anna. Here is the link to her website:

http://chrianna.co.uk/

I sent her an email and she was kind enough to respond promptly that she was born in 1972 in England and was not our Anna.

[SherlockJr]

I have listed every link that I (and another member) have found on the Australian Anna Waters. I sent an e-mail to the hotkey, but it was returned as undeliverable. This afternoon, I sent an e-mail to an internet friend who lives in Australia to find out if he lives near Tasmania. I am waiting for his reply. Not really up to date on international calling (its been 25+ years since I made an international call). I notice all pics of Anna here her hair being more thinner than the age progression. Age can have a lot to do with it along with hormones. :blushing:

http://www.hotkey.net.au/~watersworks/index.html

http://www.acadarts.utas.edu.au/events/centre_stage/history/misbehavin/

http://www.perform.utas.edu.au/events/centre_stage/history/sunday/index.html

Tasmanian Music Industry Association
Association for commercial music industry interests
Anna Waters,Managerc/o Suite 32A, Yorktown Square
Launceston TAS 7250
Ph 03 6334 4163, fax 03 6331 3636

THE WATERSWORKS ENTERTAINMENT AGENCY
9 Upper McEwans Road
Legana TAS 7277
Phone: (03) 6330 2411
Fax: (03) 6330 2408
Manager: Anna Waters

[SherlockJr]

My friend replied that he was about 2 hours away. He did find her listed at another address in Tasmania along with an e-mail address. Once again, that was returned also. He has friends who has family in Tas. and will try to locate this Anna.

[Dr. Doogie]

My friend replied that he was about 2 hours away. He did find her listed at another address in Tasmania along with an e-mail address. Once again, that was returned also. He has friends who has family in Tas. and will try to locate this Anna.
Great work, SherlockJr! It is nice to have connections all across the globe. Everything I know about Tasmania I learned in Bugs Bunny cartoons.

[aussie_mum]

Hi there! I have been following this story since finding this website. It has taken a LONG time to read thru all the threads. I live in Tasmania, about 2 hours drive from Launceston. I am in awe of all the info you guys in the states seem to have access to, just reading all the info you can find is amazing. If you could give me some tips for what to look for I might be able to help. I had a look in the phone book on line and there are a couple A Waters listed, but not much info other than that.

[SherlockJr]

Hi there! I have been following this story since finding this website. It has taken a LONG time to read thru all the threads. I live in Tasmania, about 2 hours drive from Launceston. I am in awe of all the info you guys in the states seem to have access to, just reading all the info you can find is amazing. If you could give me some tips for what to look for I might be able to help. I had a look in the phone book on line and there are a couple A Waters listed, but not much info other than that.
Welcome Aussie_mum! I have heard this Anna also entertained at a casino regularly in Launceston. How many casinos are in Launceston? I could only find two. I checked their websites and could not find her, so she may have only done a show or two. Aussie_mum could you contact the University of Tasmania School of Visual and Performing Arts and inquire about the Anna Waters there? Maybe get an approximate age on her. Where to locate her today? It was between 1992-1995 when she was in the show "Never on a Sunday".

[itsreenw]

My friend replied that he was about 2 hours away. He did find her listed at another address in Tasmania along with an e-mail address. Once again, that was returned also. He has friends who has family in Tas. and will try to locate this Anna.My aunt and uncle live in Tasmania too-I'll call them this week

[viking]

Okay, how weird is this? I went to the state of California Death Index pages and did a search for Anna Waters. There were many, many Anna Waters that were born and died from 1850 to 1939. One had a middle name of "Eifee" or something rather close. I began to wonder if the Georges "borrowed" another Anna Water's S.S.N.

The cool thing is that it states where they were born, their birthday, and place of death. They have mother's maiden names and father's last names, too. So then my computer crashed!

I feel the time frame in which Anna disappeared was so minute, that this had to be a carefully executed plan. Therefore bringing me to reason it was definitely someone she knew or had recently met that knew her mom and Joe and she was comfortable with them. But then again, a promise of a puppy or candy can be pretty persuasive to a five year old.

I will continue to run checks on Anna through the California index. Also, I have been shooting this story to a lot of national media. Won't you all do the same?

Lastly, Anna'smom: Did George ever yell at you or threaten to take Anna 'cause "she was being raised by a hippie" or "an unfit mother'? If so, how often did he say this and to what extent, if any did he threaten to take her?
Sorry my post is so disjointed!
Peace,

Mary

[viking]

Sorry, I forgot: the index for birth and death did not end in 1939; I just never got to continue because of my PC crashing.

[mjak]

Okay, how weird is this? I went to the state of California Death Index pages and did a search for Anna Waters. There were many, many Anna Waters that were born and died from 1850 to 1939. One had a middle name of "Eifee" or something rather close. I began to wonder if the Georges "borrowed" another Anna Water's S.S.N.

The cool thing is that it states where they were born, their birthday, and place of death. They have mother's maiden names and father's last names, too. So then my computer crashed!

I feel the time frame in which Anna disappeared was so minute, that this had to be a carefully executed plan. Therefore bringing me to reason it was definitely someone she knew or had recently met that knew her mom and Joe and she was comfortable with them. But then again, a promise of a puppy or candy can be pretty persuasive to a five year old.

I will continue to run checks on Anna through the California index. Also, I have been shooting this story to a lot of national media. Won't you all do the same?

Lastly, Anna'smom: Did George ever yell at you or threaten to take Anna 'cause "she was being raised by a hippie" or "an unfit mother'? If so, how often did he say this and to what extent, if any did he threaten to take her?
Sorry my post is so disjointed!
Peace,

Mary
This is very intresting. How close was this other Anna Waters middle name to Eifee?

mjak

[Dr. Doogie]

I went to the state of California Death Index pages and did a search for Anna Waters. There were many, many Anna Waters that were born and died from 1850 to 1939. One had a middle name of "Eifee" or something rather close. I began to wonder if the Georges "borrowed" another Anna Water's S.S.N.
This is very interesting. I tried to duplicate your research through Ancestry.com, but their CA Death Index only goes back to 1940. I did see an "Anna E. Waters", but it does not spell out the middle name. Please PM me with any links or info that you have. Great work!

I feel the time frame in which Anna disappeared was so minute, that this had to be a carefully executed plan. Therefore bringing me to reason it was definitely someone she knew or had recently met that knew her mom and Joe and she was comfortable with them. But then again, a promise of a puppy or candy can be pretty persuasive to a five year old.
I agree that it seems to be well planned, especially if it was the couple in the car that took Anna. Most predator abductions are crimes of opportunity, yet this had to occur in a perfect 5-10 minute window. Predators would not return to such a remote area one month later on the outside chance that a young girl could be available and alone. No, someone was waiting and watching for the right moment to act.

Also, I have been shooting this story to a lot of national media. Won't you all do the same?
Thanks for your efforts. Unfortunately, we need some sort of "hook" or "angle" to make this "newsworthy" and not just ancient history. I hope that the publishing of Annasmoms manuscript might light that fire to recreate interest in the case.

Lastly, Anna'smom: Did George ever yell at you or threaten to take Anna 'cause "she was being raised by a hippie" or "an unfit mother'? If so, how often did he say this and to what extent, if any did he threaten to take her?
Annasmom can answer the specifics of this question, but I will say that as of 1969-1970, GW was using terms of "evil" and worse to describe Annasmom in letters to his family. Remember that this was in the heat of a seperation/divorce and GW saw that his parents were providing moral support to Annasmom, which he felt was a betrayal. However, his parents recognised that George's mental condition had worsened and that Annasmom had endured more than anyone could be expected to endure. All of George's accusations must be viewed through the filter of his paranoia to be understood.

[PonderingThings]

This is from a site where a birth mother is searching for her stolen child. She came across an anomoly about a birth certificate and managed to track down the adoptee. It was not her daughter....

THE ODDS OF THIS PERSON BEING ANNA ARE EXTREMELY SLIM, HOWEVER, SINCE SOME OF THE INFORMATION DOES MATCH I THOUGHT I'D POST THE POSSIBILITY.


http://www.amfor.net/BabyTheft1968.html

Over the past 12 years, I had tracked down, spoken with, and eliminated every female born on February 14, 1968 at Cottage Hospital and in Santa Barbara County as possibly being my daughter. But there was a sealed birth certificate on Vital Records' 1968 roll of microfilm which eluded identification for several years. Only the local birth certificate number, #396, was displayed, on the microfilm, along with the 1972 delayed filing date, indicating an adoption. Although there were other sealed birth certificates in 1968, the fact that #396 was only 5 numbers away from my daughter's, #391 certificate, yet it wasn't filed until 1972, compelled me to try to find out who that record belonged to and the circumstances.
A) Anna was born in September of 1967 - Adoptee's birth certificate (filed 2 weeks out of sequence) say February 1968 - this is within the same "age range"B) The adoption occured in 1972 (doesn't say which month) - Anna disappeared in January of 1973 - This is possibly within a very short time frame "IF" it happened in December 1972.

We both felt that even if this adoptee was not my daughter, something was "not right.". Within hours Luanne informing me the adoptee's current identity is Deana M. Villegas, I was speaking with Deane by phone and established that she could not be my daughter. Deana was "born blonde,"
C) The Adoptee was "born blonde" and so was Anna


Still a mystery, is the question of why my daughter's records do not match the baby I gave birth to, and why Deana birth certificate, indicating date of birth February 4, 1968, is filed out of sequence by 2 weeks. She says she never knew her father; that her mother remarried a year after her birth, and that her step-father then adopted her. She had searched for her biological father but was provided no information by anyone, even her mother. Yet, she says, when her biological father died, her step-father informed her about his obituary in the newspaper.
D) Why was the birth certificate filed "out of sequence" - is it possible it was "created"?

E) Deana's biological father also died... although no date is given as to when she was told he died.

F) Although Deana knows she is adopted there is a lot of secrecy around her adoption.

G) Deana sounds a lot like Anna

H) This happened in Santa Barbara (5 hours away from Half Moon Bay) but with George's medical background is it possible he was aware/knew someone in the "baby stealing" business?

[SherlockJr]

WTG Pondering!!! Is there any contact information for either one?

[PonderingThings]

Yes - The woman who originally contacted the Adoptee can be reached through the website.

[SherlockJr]

I found a Deana M Villegas on Net Detective, shows a new phone listing. Called it and already been disconnected.

[Dr. Doogie]

This may be the woman that we are looking for: Deanna M. Villegas (note the two n's) attended Fountain Valley High School 1981-1985 (the correct years to match Anna). Her married name is "Sorenson". A "Deanna M. Sorenson" is listed as living in Anaheim, CA with her husband Todd. No phone number...yet.

[Dr. Doogie]

Okay, now I have a phone number. I will try and make contact today. I'll post what I find.

[Dr. Doogie]

Deanna M. (Villegas) Sorenson in Anaheim is not the same "Deana M.Villegas" as mentioned in the previous article.

There is another Deana Villegas listed as living in Pasadena, CA. This may be the correct one, but I do not know if the contact number listed is the one that others have tried and found disconnected.

[PonderingThings]

Dr. Doogie thanks for checking this out. It could very well turn out that Deanna was born to her mom and her birth certificate was simply filed out of sequence because of a bureaucratic snaffoo.

Then the snaffoo was highlited when her stepfather adopted her.

Don't know. I do hope she understands the interest when you finally do contact her (and I'm sure you will). http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Dr. Doogie]

It could very well turn out that Deanna was born to her mom and her birth certificate was simply filed out of sequence because of a bureaucratic snaffoo.

Then the snaffoo was highlited when her stepfather adopted her.
You are correct. All we know at this point is that there is something "funny" about the paperwork which could possibly (and most likely) be explained by bureacracy instead of criminal activity.

[Dr. Doogie]

Karen is a member of the Kukoda family who moved from back east to the San Francisco Bay area in the late 1990's. She is approximately the same age as Anna. There were some coincidental similarities in her activities/talents that matched up with Anna's siblings that made her a person of interest.

The detective with the San Mateo Sheriff's department who is handling Anna's case pulled up the DMV picture of Karen and compared it to the age-progression of Anna. It is the opinion of him and several other detectives who reviewed the photographs that Karen is not Anna.

[Dr. Doogie]

There are four women that are members of the Kukoda family that are being examined as possible matches to Anna. Two have been eliminated since Kukoda is their married name (Kari and Anne M.). Two more are still being looked at. Updates to come.

[Dr. Doogie]

As a result of the hardwork and dedication of SherlockJr, two adoptees were located on various adoption reunion sites whose details matched enough of Anna's story to make them people of interest (Great work, SherlockJr!)

The first is named Clarissa. Her listed birthday is one day off from Anna's. She has numerous memories that align with Anna's history, but enough is different to conclude that she is not Anna. Today, I received some pictures of her at around six years old and they seem to show too many differences when compared to Anna's pictures at five. I have forwarded them to Annasmom for her opinion, but am not optimistic for a match. Clarissa is a very nice lady who has been raised by a loving adopted family, but she is not Anna.

The second adoptee is named Carla (but she believes that her birth name is Anna). Details concerning this woman are sketchy, but SherlockJr had a long discussion with a friend of Clara (who had posted the original information) and they both have concluded that Carla is not Anna.

The best of wishes to these women in their search for their birthparents.

[Dr. Doogie]

The first is named Clarissa. Her listed birthday is one day off from Anna's. She has numerous memories that align with Anna's history, but enough is different to conclude that she is not Anna. Today, I received some pictures of her at around six years old and they seem to show too many differences when compared to Anna's pictures at five. I have forwarded them to Annasmom for her opinion, but am not optimistic for a match. Clarissa is a very nice lady who has been raised by a loving adopted family, but she is not Anna.
I received an email today from Clarissa that with some information that we had passed on to her and with the help of adoption "search angels" that we directed her to, she was able to locate her brother and be reunited with her family. Thank you, SherlockJr, for discovering this potential match for Anna and creating the scenario that has allowed her to "return home". Great job, everyone!

[Dr. Doogie]

Susan Anderton is an adoptee who was searching for her birth family. Several details of her story matched up with Anna. Her listed birthday was within one day of Anna's. Susan's birth father was a doctor and the adoption was arranged by an older man who was a "friend of the family".

SherlockJr (who discovered this possible match) followed up by researching Susan's story. Through hard work and talent, SherlockJr was able to actually locate Susan's mother and has been facilitating a reunion between mother and daughter. Susan is not Anna.

(The adoptee's full name is listed here so that we can be aware that she has been looked at and is not Anna. With multiple researchers covering the same resources, there is always a chance of duplication. Hopefully this information will help prevent our researchers from covering leads that have already been examined.)

Special kudos to SherlockJr for doggedly persuing this lead and helping to reunite Susan with her family. :clap:

[SherlockJr]

Susan Anderton is an adoptee who was searching for her birth family. Several details of her story matched up with Anna. Her listed birthday was within one day of Anna's. Susan's birth father was a doctor and the adoption was arranged by an older man who was a "friend of the family".

SherlockJr (who discovered this possible match) followed up by researching Susan's story. Through hard work and talent, SherlockJr was able to actually locate Susan's mother and has been facilitating a reunion between mother and daughter. Susan is not Anna.
I want to believe a pattern is forming here. During the search for Anna, the first adoptee was Gloria. Gloria was lives south of Los Angeles and was reunited with her birthfamily on Mothers Day this year. Next was Susan, her birth mother was found in Morro Bay this past week-end. I seem to be working up the coast of CA and hopefully the next will be Anna. ;)

[LButler]

They say everything happens for a reason. This long search for Anna has done a lot of good for a lot of people - reuniting adoptees with parents, pulling people together to search for her ...

Maybe angels are doing some work before giving up their secrets??

[Shadow205]

They say everything happens for a reason. This long search for Anna has done a lot of good for a lot of people - reuniting adoptees with parents, pulling people together to search for her ...

Maybe angels are doing some work before giving up their secrets??
I like that thought LButler:)

[KJERVIS]

I love how whilst helping Anna you lot have been able to help other people. This makes my heart just swell with pride for everyone that is on this forum. Everyone truly has a unique gift that they have chosen to share with those who don’t have voices anymore. I think it is a beautiful thing to witness. I don’t often share much to keep the ball going but I just wanted to let everyone know how much I look up to each and every one of you as inspiration as to the goodness still left in the human race.

Kate

[GraceBlue]

LButler- I agree with you 100%

Sherlock- Great job!!!!

I still hope this new 'lead' finds Anna. Not a day goes by that I dont think of Anna. I dont even know her family but as a mother I cant even imagine how hard it must be for Annasmom and her family. Because of this, it made me cherish every moment with my daughter even more. Somehow, Anna touched all of our lives in here and others (like the adoptees) as well.

[Annasmom]

I love how whilst helping Anna you lot have been able to help other people. This makes my heart just swell with pride for everyone that is on this forum. Everyone truly has a unique gift that they have chosen to share with those who don’t have voices anymore. I think it is a beautiful thing to witness. I don’t often share much to keep the ball going but I just wanted to let everyone know how much I look up to each and every one of you as inspiration as to the goodness still left in the human race.

Kate
Kate, what a lovely thing to say.

[HeartofTexas]

Kate, there are indeed some lovely people who post on Anna's forum... many of them Anna's very own family. This is probably the most special forum on Websleuths, IMO. I think a lot of the credit for that goes to Doogie who is another very special person.

Sherlock, congrats for such a great find. As always, I'm sad to hear it wasn't Anna. But it's so wonderful to have helped another family. I hope that gives you a great sense of accomplishment.

[SherlockJr]

Can you explain this photo Dr. Doogie? I have searched and searched for a connection to Ronald McDonald. Maybe you need a short vacation (or is it a long vacation on the short bus?).

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/drdoogief/detail?.dir=aac9&.dnm=962bscd.jpg

[Dr. Doogie]

Can you explain this photo Dr. Doogie? I have searched and searched for a connection to Ronald McDonald. Maybe you need a short vacation (or is it a long vacation on the short bus?).

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/drdoogief/detail?.dir=aac9&.dnm=962bscd.jpgDoes seem a little random, doesn't it? On another thread, a poster was describing someone who was "suspicious-looking" that she had seen at bingo recently and was convinced that he was probably "wanted". She described him as very pale with unnaturally red hair (probably a wig). I offered up this picture as a possible match (sometimes, I crack myself up...).

[smile22]

now all you need with that picture is ronalds friends. grimice burgler and the rest of the gang

[Dr. Doogie]

I was just informed by Annasmom that the unidentified girl located in Caledonia, NY has been ruled out as a match for Anna. We can scratch that possibility off the list.

[SherlockJr]

I spoke to an adoptee last nite on the phone. She was born 9-23-67 in California and was adopted when she was 8 years old. She informed me that she found her birthmother about 3 years ago. She was so sweet and offered Anna's family in her prayers.
We will chalk off another one!

[Dr. Doogie]

We discovered an woman by the name of Anna Waters living in Georgia who was the correct age on the Reunion.com website. The picture included in her profile resembled the age progression of our Anna.

After a couple of months of hunting down current contact information, we contact this Anna Waters, only to discover that she was from a long line of Waters who had lived in the town for generations. She definitely knew her parents and was not our Anna.
As a result of the MySpace sites, someone found this match again and forwarded it directly to the San Mateo County Sheriffs Department. I informed Detective Gilletti that we had contacted and eliminated this possible match about a year ago, but he wants to follow up on it any way. I appreciate his thoroughness - my only concern is that their time to invest in this case is finite and I want to make sure that we use that time wisely.

If anyone does come up with something that looks promising, please either forward to me directly or post it on this site. If it is new and looks promising, we can always forward it to the proper authorities. This lead did not come from the researchers here on WS which is why it bypassed the usual procedure - I just want to involve LE judiciously and not have them need to retrace what we have already discovered.

[christine2448]

Karen is a member of the Kukoda family who moved from back east to the San Francisco Bay area in the late 1990's. She is approximately the same age as Anna. There were some coincidental similarities in her activities/talents that matched up with Anna's siblings that made her a person of interest.

The detective with the San Mateo Sheriff's department who is handling Anna's case pulled up the DMV picture of Karen and compared it to the age-progression of Anna. It is the opinion of him and several other detectives who reviewed the photographs that Karen is not Anna.
Is the comparison of the pictures the only thing that ruled this possible match out?????

There has to be more, or I would not so quickly rule her out...JMHO.

Anyone ever do any research at people found and how close the age prog. was? I wonder what the stats are....I would not rely on that aged prog. picture to rule anyone out, it is a guess, in reality, the picture is based on what she COULD look like...again, JMO.

[Dr. Doogie]

Is the comparison of the pictures the only thing that ruled this possible match out?????

There has to be more, or I would not so quickly rule her out...JMHO.

Anyone ever do any research at people found and how close the age prog. was? I wonder what the stats are....I would not rely on that aged prog. picture to rule anyone out, it is a guess, in reality, the picture is based on what she COULD look like...again, JMO.
It was primarily the picture, but I also sent her an email explaining why I was interested in her which she ignored. I figured between the two issues (the poic and the snub) that there was enough to have gained her interest if she had any questions about her birth. I have not completely ruled her out, but other more promising leads have moved to the fore-front. I would like to eventually see her in person for my own evaluation.

[christine2448]

It was primarily the picture, but I also sent her an email explaining why I was interested in her which she ignored. I figured between the two issues (the poic and the snub) that there was enough to have gained her interest if she had any questions about her birth. I have not completely ruled her out, but other more promising leads have moved to the fore-front. I would like to eventually see her in person for my own evaluation.
Gotcha, thanks Doogie for clarifying, I had a feeling. Your awesome BTW! http://smilies.sofrayt.com/fsc/thumbs-up.gif

[Dr. Doogie]

...I figured between the two issues (the poic and the snub) that there was enough to have gained her interest if she had any questions about her birth...
What the hell is a "poic"? I gotta learn to use spell-check. :blushing:

[Gina_M]

I have listed every link that I (and another member) have found on the Australian Anna Waters. I sent an e-mail to the hotkey, but it was returned as undeliverable. This afternoon, I sent an e-mail to an internet friend who lives in Australia to find out if he lives near Tasmania. I am waiting for his reply. Not really up to date on international calling (its been 25+ years since I made an international call). I notice all pics of Anna here her hair being more thinner than the age progression. Age can have a lot to do with it along with hormones. :blushing:

http://www.hotkey.net.au/~watersworks/index.html

http://www.acadarts.utas.edu.au/events/centre_stage/history/misbehavin/

http://www.perform.utas.edu.au/events/centre_stage/history/sunday/index.html

Tasmanian Music Industry Association
Association for commercial music industry interests
Anna Waters,Managerc/o Suite 32A, Yorktown Square
Launceston TAS 7250
Ph 03 6334 4163, fax 03 6331 3636

THE WATERSWORKS ENTERTAINMENT AGENCY
9 Upper McEwans Road
Legana TAS 7277
Phone: (03) 6330 2411
Fax: (03) 6330 2408
Manager: Anna WatersI just received a message on MySpace about this Anna; it had one of the above links in it. Did we ever rule this one out? To me, it doesn't seem likely that she is our Anna, but of course it's good to be thorough.

ETA: Basically someone on MySpace is asking me if I think this is Anna because she thinks there is a resemblance.

[Annasmom]

I just received a message on MySpace about this Anna; it had one of the above links in it. Did we ever rule this one out? To me, it doesn't seem likely that she is our Anna, but of course it's good to be thorough.

ETA: Basically someone on MySpace is asking me if I think this is Anna because she thinks there is a resemblance. Gina, we saw pictures of this Anna and I couldn't really see any likeness. I think we more or less decided that we needed to have something supporting a physical resemblance such as the person being an adoptee, etc., in order to go forward with it. This woman does have the same name, and you are right; it's good to be thorough. Can she be contacted through MySpace?

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

I was just informed by Annasmom that the unidentified girl located in Caledonia, NY has been ruled out as a match for Anna. We can scratch that possibility off the list.

I was looking at this UID as a potential match for another missing girl. Do you know if the Caledonia UID has her DNA submitted into CODIS. I've written and called the NY LE and am waiting on a return call. If you don't mind me asking do you recall how this girl and Anna where ruled out? Thanks.

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

http://doenetwork.org/cases/13uffl.html
http://www.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/PubCaseSearchServlet?act=viewChildDetail&caseNum=u400080&orgPrefix=NCMC&seqNum=1&caseLang=en_US&searchLang=en_US

I sometimes wonder how many abducted children runaway years after the abduction and are never reported missing because they where abducted to begin with. I feel many UID considered runaways are missing children trying to get home and fall into the wrong hands. The above was somebodies daughter and has never been mentioned on this forum. Apparently her DNA hasn't been entered into CODIS. (from what I've been told). Have you checked on this girl?

I have found 4 possible matches for Anna (same eye & hair color/approx DOB) that do not have DNA entered into CODIS. I have contacted all proper agencies. Will post what I find.

[Annasmom]

I was looking at this UID as a potential match for another missing girl. Do you know if the Caledonia UID has her DNA submitted into CODIS. I've written and called the NY LE and am waiting on a return call. If you don't mind me asking do you recall how this girl and Anna where ruled out? Thanks. My memory of this is that the girl was the wrong age and that she was not Caucasian. There should be quite a lot about this case on line.

[elizabethP]

Hello,

I've been reading up about this case over the last several weeks and have been doing some looking on my own. Recently, I searched the reunion website, and came up with this person looking for their birth mother. They are based in Australia, and although the birth date is wrong, it's listed as March 26, 1967, it does say that their birth name was Waters.

Not many other details are given, and it appears that someone other than the adoptee has listed this.

Here's the link:

http://registry.adoption.com/records/493335.html

The record was recently added on April 27, 2007. They do list a contact on this website. I'm not registered, but thought that maybe someone here who is can contact this person?

[Cubby]

Hi Elizabeth,

Thanks for posting the link and your interest. Hopefully our resident adoption/adoptee guru Sherlockjr can take a look at this.

Just wanted to say hi and welcome to WS.

[SherlockJr]

Hi Elizabeth. Welcome to WS. I have sent an e-mail to this person and will report back when I hear back from her. Let us know if you find any other messages posted anywhere.

[SherlockJr]

The person I e-mailed has responded by saying her search was for a sister who was adopted. She has already found her sister.

[elizabethP]

The person I e-mailed has responded by saying her search was for a sister who was adopted. She has already found her sister.

I figured as much, but thought it was worth a try anyway. It's best to try all of those avenues.

Has anyone seen this posting in cousindirect:

http://www.cousinconnect.com/d/a/106208

Also, a long shot, but I thought the name was interesting, Effie (I know not exactly the same, but the Italy connection was also intriguing). I sent this woman a quick email with a link to Anna's website. I'll report back what she says, if anything.

[Annasmom]

I figured as much, but thought it was worth a try anyway. It's best to try all of those avenues.

Has anyone seen this posting in cousindirect:

http://www.cousinconnect.com/d/a/106208

Also, a long shot, but I thought the name was interesting, Effie (I know not exactly the same, but the Italy connection was also intriguing). I sent this woman a quick email with a link to Anna's website. I'll report back what she says, if anything. The post was especially interesting in view of GW's notes in the BFH regarding passports, the Italian consulate, etc. I was not able to view the photo. If anyone else can get it, would you post it? Certainly if anyone wanted a child to be completely cut off from her origins, putting her where people didn't speak English would do it. The San Mateo County detective in charge of Anna's case yesterday acknowledged my request that he ask for passport information on official letterhead, Cubby's suggestion. He has been on another assignment for several weeks, but hopes to get back to us as soon as he can. Thank you for the Cousins lead, Elizabeth.

[MagicRose99]

The pic isn't coming up for me either... perhaps she took it down?

[elizabethP]

Ever since I read about this case, it hooked me. I want to find her too.

Anyway, I did find the pic. I looked up the url in the wayback machine. I don't think I should post it directly, since it's personal, and perhaps she took it down.

You can view it here:

http://web.archive.org/web/20070207091412/http://www.cousinconnect.com/d/a/106208

Download the pic and then view it (it's larger that way).


Looks promising to me, but she does have sunglasses on.

Maybe one of you guys could contact her as well. I don't think my email was as professional as it could have been. Sorry about jumping the gun there. Next time, I'll just post the link for you.

[SherlockJr]

Maybe one of you guys could contact her as well. I don't think my email was as professional as it could have been. Sorry about jumping the gun there. Next time, I'll just post the link for you.

A request is made that no one else make contact with this person. Annasmom has already sent her an e-mail. It is my understanding from the Australian Anna Waters that she got flooded with e-mails from different people inquiring is she was our Anna. She was not a happy camper.

[LisainWV]

Might I just suggest that when folks here have suffiently narrowed down a "potential subject," they bring that info here, let others assess it as well, and, if it warrants a direct contact, let someone like Sherlock do that - to avoid bombarding these people with nosey e-mails. Communication with these folks needs to be professional, sensitive and factual. What if someone actually finds Anna but an inappropriate communication with her scares her off?

And, to CMA, I don't think for a minute that anyone here is intentionally sending ugly or nasty e-mails. It's just that sometimes wording is everything!!

[SherlockJr]

Quoted from an earlier posting:
"Has anyone else ever thought that Anna might have run away from her abductors when reaching her teen years? Would they have reported her missing with a new name? I've started to look at runaway teenagers in the early 80's and there are just too many of them. One of them I keep going back to look at is Mary Ann Hogland (Hoagland) 12 yrs old with an alias of McCluskey. I can't imagine 12yr olds having aliases. Could that be the last name of a boyfriend? Looking at her picture, I can't help but notice the difference in hair texture. As a young child, straight fine hair, at age 12 curly frizzy hair. http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/1247dfca.html (http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/1247dfca.html)"

I received an e-mail from a woman who is a friend of Mary Ann's sister. She offered sincere apologies to Anna's family for the pain they have suffered losing Anna. She also confirmed that Mary Ann is not Anna.

[Cubby]

Might I just suggest that when folks here have suffiently narrowed down a "potential subject," they bring that info here, let others assess it as well, and, if it warrants a direct contact, let someone like Sherlock do that - to avoid bombarding these people with nosey e-mails. Communication with these folks needs to be professional, sensitive and factual. What if someone actually finds Anna but an inappropriate communication with her scares her off?

And, to CMA, I don't think for a minute that anyone here is intentionally sending ugly or nasty e-mails. It's just that sometimes wording is everything!!


My thoughts are it may be a non registered "guest". Anyone can read this, and it might be best to share certain links via pm only. Not to be kept a secret, but to keep something from happening again like losing the cooperation with the Kukoda family member. Sadly it only takes a few thoughtless comments or emails........

[InterestedNHelping]

I think I know what happened here...about a month ago, I sent this to Dr. Doogie to look into, and he mentioned that someone besides myself had also sent this info to him...although I did not contact this person, it is possible that many of have unknowingly contacted them...oops...Dr. Doogie, did you ever contact them back then also?

[elizabethP]

A request is made that no one else make contact with this person. Annasmom has already sent her an e-mail. It is my understanding from the Australian Anna Waters that she got flooded with e-mails from different people inquiring is she was our Anna. She was not a happy camper.

I can imagine that getting flooded with requests could be annoying, but in some respects, it's better than getting no response.

But I agree that maybe only one person should make contact. I honestly thought this was such a long shot that I'd help to eliminate for you, so you could focus on your more solid leads. But maybe it's not such a long shot, in retrospect. Hopefully, this woman will get back to someone then.

[Dr. Doogie]

I think I know what happened here...about a month ago, I sent this to Dr. Doogie to look into, and he mentioned that someone besides myself had also sent this info to him...although I did not contact this person, it is possible that many of have unknowingly contacted them...oops...Dr. Doogie, did you ever contact them back then also?

I do not think so, but the old memory chip is not what it used to be.

I think the above posts demonstrate why it is best to use a co-ordinated effort when contacting the folks (either potential Anna's or people who may have helpful information). People with the best intentions may inadvertently harm our efforts. All efforts to contact anyone relevant to the case should probably be run through me first to allow us to control the amount and nature of that communication. Thanks for your understanding.

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

http://www.doenetwork.org/hot/hotcase527.html



Lori,
I looked up the case that you inquired about. This body consisted of a human skeleton and some other small bones that were found in the delta here in Sacramento. The bones were found in 1979 which was way before DNA was around. We are in the process of exhuming old cases to submit for DNA but this process is going to take some time. We do not have bones exhumed for DNA analysis on this particular case at this time.


I looked at the case to see if there was anything I could do to answer your question about this possibly being the missing girl and I can not find anything. I can not find that we even sent these bones to an anthropologist for age or sex determination. We do have some teeth to do dental comparison but I doubt this little girl had any dental work done at such a young age.

Sorry I could not have been of more help at this time.

Kim Gillis
Deputy Coroner
Sacramento County Coroner


Rest assured I have not contacted any living Anna possibilities. Someone has got to look into the very possible reality that she is no longer with us. (Quote by George Brody: "I'm glad the Tot is dead") Every LE official I have talked with over the last few weeks involving UID's that could be possible matches, have never been contacted by Anna's family to be ruled out.

[Dr. Doogie]

http://www.doenetwork.org/hot/hotcase527.html




Rest assured I have not contacted any living Anna possibilities. Someone has got to look into the very possible reality that she is no longer with us. (Quote by George Brody: "I'm glad the Tot is dead") Every LE official I have talked with over the last few weeks involving UID's that could be possible matches, have never been contacted by Anna's family to be ruled out.

I have scoured the Doe Network for possible matches (as have many of you). Unfortunately, the DN only represents a small fraction of UID's - even more so back in the seventies. Among those who are listed, there are none that match with the scenario of Anna being killed shortly after her disappearance and the body being left in the general area of her disappearance. The farther away and longer that Anna would have had to kept by her abductor before being killed, the less likely that the UID's would be Anna. (In other words, the body of a five year old female discovered in the Santa Cruz area with an estimated time of death as the early-to-mid 1970's would be a strong possible match. Much less likely is a fourteen year old female discovered in Idaho in the eary-to-mid 1980's.)

If anyone uncovers a UID that is of interest, but is hesitant to post that information out of concern for Annasmom's feelings, please PM me with the info and I will definitely follow up on it. I continue to believe that Anna is alive, but our goal is to uncover the truth and we must pursue it whever the evidence leads us.

[SherlockJr]

http://www.doenetwork.org/hot/hotcase527.html




Rest assured I have not contacted any living Anna possibilities. Someone has got to look into the very possible reality that she is no longer with us. (Quote by George Brody: "I'm glad the Tot is dead") Every LE official I have talked with over the last few weeks involving UID's that could be possible matches, have never been contacted by Anna's family to be ruled out.

iW, I believe it was quoted by GW. If he actually really said those exact words. I am a believer that Anna is alive and was taken from her yard. We have even discussed here on Anna's forum the possibility of UID, however I don't consider it reality.

[Dr. Doogie]

http://www.doenetwork.org/hot/hotcase527.html

The timing of this case fits with Anna's disappearance, but without an age and sex determination of the bones, it is of little use as of now. However, since DNA extration does seem to be planned on this UID, it may yield information that would cause us to re-evaluate its relevance. If you hear any additional information, please keep me informed.

[Cubby]

http://www.doenetwork.org/hot/hotcase527.html



Maybe this is a silly question, but considering Anna went missing as a child wouldn't there be a way of determing whether the teeth for this UID were that of a child's primary teeth or where they permanent teeth? Without DNA that little information could rule in or out.

[Annasmom]

http://www.doenetwork.org/hot/hotcase527.html




Rest assured I have not contacted any living Anna possibilities. Someone has got to look into the very possible reality that she is no longer with us. (Quote by George Brody: "I'm glad the Tot is dead") Every LE official I have talked with over the last few weeks involving UID's that could be possible matches, have never been contacted by Anna's family to be ruled out. The quote you mention was made by George Waters, not George Brody, in response to my story in the San Francisco Chronicle. It was tape-recorded surreptitiously. Since this is an open case, I have never thought it was up to us to contact law enforcement people regarding unidentifieds (how would we know about them?), but rather the reverse. At the risk of sounding unduly hopeful, I would like to cite Jerry Nance of the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children: He says that most abductions of infants and young children turn out to be cases of children taken by people who wish to raise them, not by murderers or sexual predators. I want to do everything I can to look for Anna, but I can't really see how it's possible to do what this post suggests.

[InterestedNHelping]

Annasmom, you did what you needed to do, when DNA was put into the national database, to cross reference, and they told you that they had no UID's that matched, as they ran it through their system. Of course there will be UIDs with no DNA yet, like this current case may suggest, but technically, you already have been run through, and ruled out from what was told to us after the "C" DNA test. So, no worries, so far so good...and we will be the ones looking into the 'not so positive' ideas, and hopefully when we find Anna, it will be because she is looking too!

[Annasunc]

When I spoke with a director of the California DOJ forensic lab in May or June, I was told that

1. Even though Anna's DNA was not obtained from her personal items, the DNA samples submitted by Annasmom and her brothers were enough to determine a positive match if compared to Anna's DNA, and

2. These DNA results will be kept permanently in the FBI national database.

[MagicRose99]

The timing of this case fits with Anna's disappearance, but without an age and sex determination of the bones, it is of little use as of now. However, since DNA extration does seem to be planned on this UID, it may yield information that would cause us to re-evaluate its relevance. If you hear any additional information, please keep me informed.

I honestly think that if these bones belonged to a child of around 5, the coroner would be able to tell that... they'd be much smaller than those of a teen or adult... wouldn't they?

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

The quote you mention was made by George Waters, not George Brody, That's right, I'm sorry, Unfortunately the fact GW said it makes it more sinister.

Since this is an open case, I have never thought it was up to us to contact law enforcement people regarding unidentified (how would we know about them?),

That's why UID's are listed on hundreds of web sites, to assist the public in searching for lost loved ones. LE is overworked, underpaid, and understaffed. They don't have the time or resources to research and then exhume each (prior to DNA) UID, unless there is probable cause. A sad but true fact. That's why people hire PI's, put their story in the media, or on the web, to get the help that LE can't provide.

I want to do everything I can to look for Anna, but I can't really see how it's possible to do what this post suggests.

Annasmom, it is very possible. I can furnish you with the information I have found, I can only get so far with each of these cases being of no relation to Anna. You (or your sons...a relative) need to contact each of the LE handling these possible UID's. You need to firmly but politely tell them that you are a mother of an abducted/missing child and you need to rule out the UID as a possible match. I know it's not the ending you are looking for, it actually just sucks to even think about it, but as Dr. Doogie pointed out to me last week..."this is real life".

The process of having this done will be very time consuming, it could take years, and it certainly doesn't mean you have to stop your search for a living, healthy, happy Anna.

Think of it this way: If you push to have these UID's exhumed for a DNA comparison and they are NOT Anna, it will be a relief for you to know for sure. It will also be great that the UID's DNA will be entered into CODIS. It will also benefit some other family like yours who has been searching for years to find their child. It will help LE, it will help people on WS.

As far as Jerry Nance goes, I wonder what statistic he is going by...non-family abductions or family abductions. I'm sure the percentage is quite different if the abductor is a father who is trying to get out of child support payments as apposed to a couple in a car who really want a pretty little girl to call their own. The way I see it Dr. Waters comment, "I'm glad the Tot is dead" can only have 2 meanings. 1. He/they killed Anna and hid/buried/cremated her body or 2. They had absolutely nothing to do with her disappearance, and totally believed she drown in the creek. Since they apparenly never read the letter written by Joe Ford to prompt the response, number one is the most likely choice.

[Cubby]

I have to disagree that the two G's would have harmed Anna-as was suggested in the pp, especially in light of GB's issues with being the irrevockable beneficiary of GW's insurance policies and the dollar left for Anna in GW's will. Why go through all the trouble? For an alibi? I doubt it.

I think we are all aware there are several thousand UID, several hundred presumed to be children in CA many of which are NOT listed anywhere. At least not that I am aware of, or from what I have read. I think those of us willing to help, could certainly work together to try to gain access to those lists, and if we find any potential matches that would need further pursing from family, we could forward that info to Doogie, as he requested in a PP and allow the family and those closest to the investigation pursue it from there. I'm much newer at this than others here, but am willing to help and willing to learn. I'm a PM away.......

just my .02

[Annasmom]

That's right, I'm sorry, Unfortunately the fact GW said it makes it more sinister.



That's why UID's are listed on hundreds of web sites, to assist the public in searching for lost loved ones. LE is overworked, underpaid, and understaffed. They don't have the time or resources to research and then exhume each (prior to DNA) UID, unless there is probable cause. A sad but true fact. That's why people hire PI's, put their story in the media, or on the web, to get the help that LE can't provide.

Annasmom, it is very possible. I can furnish you with the information I have found, I can only get so far with each of these cases being of no relation to Anna. You (or your sons...a relative) need to contact each of the LE handling these possible UID's. You need to firmly but politely tell them that you are a mother of an abducted/missing child and you need to rule out the UID as a possible match. I know it's not the ending you are looking for, it actually just sucks to even think about it, but as Dr. Doogie pointed out to me last week..."this is real life".

The process of having this done will be very time consuming, it could take years, and it certainly doesn't mean you have to stop your search for a living, healthy, happy Anna.

Think of it this way: If you push to have these UID's exhumed for a DNA comparison and they are NOT Anna, it will be a relief for you to know for sure. It will also be great that the UID's DNA will be entered into CODIS. It will also benefit some other family like yours who has been searching for years to find their child. It will help LE, it will help people on WS.

As far as Jerry Nance goes, I wonder what statistic he is going by...non-family abductions or family abductions. I'm sure the percentage is quite different if the abductor is a father who is trying to get out of child support payments as apposed to a couple in a car who really want a pretty little girl to call their own. The way I see it Dr. Waters comment, "I'm glad the Tot is dead" can only have 2 meanings. 1. He/they killed Anna and hid/buried/cremated her body or 2. They had absolutely nothing to do with her disappearance, and totally believed she drown in the creek. Since they apparenly never read the letter written by Joe Ford to prompt the response, number one is the most likely choice.

I was hoping to get some feedback on this from Kelly Jolkowski, who as far as I know is the only other parent of a missing child on WebSleuths. Her mailbox is full, however, so I guess I'm on my own. I don't know how to tell you...but what you suggest is absolutely impossible for me to do if I am to maintain any emotional equilibrium. My resources, physical and psychic, are not limitless, nor are the hours in the day. "Why seek ye the living among the dead?" comes to mind. We would not have come this far without Doogie, Sherlock, and the other members of WebSleuths, but if we siphon off energy to lobby on Unidentifieds in this way, that's just so much diverted from our present efforts. I hope this doesn't sound dismissive. It makes me feel bad to write it, but I know my limits...and I can't do what you suggest.

[MagicRose99]

I was hoping to get some feedback on this from Kelly Jolkowski, who as far as I know is the only other parent of a missing child on WebSleuths. Her mailbox is full, however, so I guess I'm on my own. I don't know how to tell you...but what you suggest is absolutely impossible for me to do if I am to maintain any emotional equilibrium. My resources, physical and psychic, are not limitless, nor are the hours in the day. "Why seek ye the living among the dead?" comes to mind. We would not have come this far without Doogie, Sherlock, and the other members of WebSleuths, but if we siphon off energy to lobby on Unidentifieds in this way, that's just so much diverted from our present efforts. I hope this doesn't sound dismissive. It makes me feel bad to write it, but I know my limits...and I can't do what you suggest.

YOU are one of the strongest women I know... you know your limits and no one is asking any more of you than what you can give. I admire your strength and your determination to find the truth. You're one of my heroes... God bless you.

[LisainWV]

I was hoping to get some feedback on this from Kelly Jolkowski, who as far as I know is the only other parent of a missing child on WebSleuths. Her mailbox is full, however, so I guess I'm on my own. I don't know how to tell you...but what you suggest is absolutely impossible for me to do if I am to maintain any emotional equilibrium. My resources, physical and psychic, are not limitless, nor are the hours in the day. "Why seek ye the living among the dead?" comes to mind. We would not have come this far without Doogie, Sherlock, and the other members of WebSleuths, but if we siphon off energy to lobby on Unidentifieds in this way, that's just so much diverted from our present efforts. I hope this doesn't sound dismissive. It makes me feel bad to write it, but I know my limits...and I can't do what you suggest.


Annasmom, I think you've made a wise decision for yourself - look for a living Anna. What's the worst that can happen? You leave this earth never finding her in any form? Well, not to worry, God takes care of it then - I believe, at that point, you'll have your answers.

You are a strong lady and I admire your tenacity!!

[Dr. Doogie]

...It makes me feel bad to write it, but I know my limits...and I can't do what you suggest.

This is why I think that any UID's that researchers out there believe may be related should be sent to me via PM. Some we may have already looked into and some may be worthy of pursuit. What I can do is act as a buffer so that Annasmom is not bombarded with numerous possible UID's. My biggest concern prior to my originally contacting Annasmom is that I would be dragging her into emotional areas that she would rather not go. That remains true to this day. Her strength to look at things that anybody would normally want to suppress has been amazing, but we must all continue to respect those limits.

[Onebolf]

YOU are one of the strongest women I know... you know your limits and no one is asking any more of you than what you can give. I admire your strength and your determination to find the truth. You're one of my heroes... God bless you.

I have never posted on here before, just a lurker, reader and behind the scenes researcher but really felt the need to second MagicRose99's comment:

From one mother to another, You are one of my heroes and strongest women I know also.....

:blowkiss:

[MagicRose99]

I have never posted on here before, just a lurker, reader and behind the scenes researcher but really felt the need to second MagicRose99's comment:

From one mother to another, You are one of my heroes and strongest women I know also.....

:blowkiss:

She's wonderful, isn't she? She's one of the best...

Welcome to the forum, Onebolf!

[InterestedNHelping]

I am here for the tough stuff...what I look into, and what I research I feel I do not need to share with the family until something specific comes to light. Dr. Doogie is our go-between for sensitive issues. I continue to do work that is very tough some days, and I take time off, so as to be competent and stable, while drudging through some sad things. It would be very different if I was the mother of a missing child, and I had spent endless energies for 35 years, I would always be sensitive, and try to protect my spirit.
We all need to be sensitive to this fact, since we are investigators of different sorts, and we are sometimes extremely driven in our work, we need caution and compassion first and foremost...and so, we are all here in our own capacities, doing our best...each and every one, for Anna.

[Gina_M]

I was hoping to get some feedback on this from Kelly Jolkowski, who as far as I know is the only other parent of a missing child on WebSleuths. Her mailbox is full, however, so I guess I'm on my own.

Annasmom, I've seen Kelly Jolkowski over on MySpace...if you like, I can send her a message over there and let her know you're trying to get in touch with her.

[Annasmom]

Annasmom, I've seen Kelly Jolkowski over on MySpace...if you like, I can send her a message over there and let her know you're trying to get in touch with her. Thank you, Gina. I was just looking for moral support, and you guys certainly gave it to me.

[Kelly]

I was hoping to get some feedback on this from Kelly Jolkowski, who as far as I know is the only other parent of a missing child on WebSleuths. Her mailbox is full, however, so I guess I'm on my own. I don't know how to tell you...but what you suggest is absolutely impossible for me to do if I am to maintain any emotional equilibrium. My resources, physical and psychic, are not limitless, nor are the hours in the day. "Why seek ye the living among the dead?" comes to mind. We would not have come this far without Doogie, Sherlock, and the other members of WebSleuths, but if we siphon off energy to lobby on Unidentifieds in this way, that's just so much diverted from our present efforts. I hope this doesn't sound dismissive. It makes me feel bad to write it, but I know my limits...and I can't do what you suggest.

HI Annasmom, all,

I'm just an email away if you're looking for me. For whatever reason, I don't like PM's and don't keep the messages cleaned out. My email is kelly.jolkowski@projectjason.org Unfortunately, with so many cases, I don't get to pop in here often.

It would appear that the situation has worked itself out. I think it is a good idea to have an UID team to work on these as time permits and filter them from you as was suggested.

I understand what you are saying about only having so much energy and preferring to focus on the positive. Those who aren't in the know may not understand the exhaustion that comes from such a long search and trying to maintain equilibrium with all that we must balance in our lives. That balancing act can be tough enough as it is without throwing a missing child situation into the picture. I myself have felt guilty about not doing certain things suggested that were secondary in my opinion. The suggesting person may not understand what it takes to do all this. But I learned, as you have, that we can only do so much and we have to keep a positive focus and not let grief and/or the search consume us.

I'm so glad you have all these kind people assisting you. What a blessing!

Please do remember that we have our Healing Harbor (http://projectjason.powweb.com/dpforum/thread.php?id=1145)benefit if you decide you ever want to talk to a highly experienced and respected counselor...one of the tops in the nation in fact.

With Hope, Always,
Kelly

PS: Jerry Nance is one of the nation's most knowledgeable and respected cold case managers. I've met him and spoken to him on more than one occasion. He knows his stuff, that's for sure. I'm glad also that he's there for you!

[SherlockJr]

I figured as much, but thought it was worth a try anyway. It's best to try all of those avenues.

Has anyone seen this posting in cousindirect:

http://www.cousinconnect.com/d/a/106208

Also, a long shot, but I thought the name was interesting, Effie (I know not exactly the same, but the Italy connection was also intriguing). I sent this woman a quick email with a link to Anna's website. I'll report back what she says, if anything.

Elizabeth, did you ever get a response from this woman?

[SherlockJr]

Just to update everyone. Another member here had received an anonymous tip from someone who remains anonymous even to me. He/she gave us the name of a woman living in Canada who strongly resembles the age progression of Anna and believed that the woman was adopted around the age of 7. Our Canadian party who helps us has located and contacted the adoptee to find out she has found her birthfamily some time ago and she confirmed that she is not Anna. Keep the tips coming in!

[Dr. Doogie]

As a result of some recent developments, we will probably be visited over the next couple of weeks by some of the women who we are currently looking at as possible Annas. This is why I asked that we take certain research "off-forum" for a time - I wanted to avoid the possibility of something getting posted that may have discouraged them from making contact. Thank you all for your understanding and discretion.

I am trying a new technique with these women. In the past, we have scrutinized as much as we can possible find out about a candidate - so much scrutiny that it has taken months before we decide whether to make contact. I am currently thinking that this approach is too cautious. My new philosophy is to find out what we can quickly and then just contact these women by mail with a copy of Anna's missing poster and a brief letter asking if anything about this means anything to them. I am including web links to searchingforanna.com and here.

This means that what we post here will be viewed by these women - if they choose to follow up on the information provided. Please be conscious of this fact when deciding what to post. Remember that people who we would describe as abductors would be probably known to Anna as Mom and Dad, and we will need to tread lightly in this case. And if these women are not Anna and they see their families publicly depicted/insinuated as kidnappers, it will cause them to flee this site quickly (and probably sue us into eternity).

And hopefully, one of these women will recognize something here that will trigger a memory of her early childhood which will lead to a most joyous reunion.

[Jodibug]

And hopefully, one of these women will recognize something here that will trigger a memory of her early childhood which will lead to a most joyous reunion.

I sure hope so..... that would be so wonderful!

[Dr. Doogie]

One of the women who has been contacted as possibly being Anna has responded. This was a "Wanek" who strongly resembled Annasmom in North Dakota. She wrote me a very nice message explaining why she could not be Anna: she is a Wanek by marriage and is at least ten years younger than Anna. We can scratch her off of the list.

[Annasmom]

If you want to see a remarkable Anna look-alike, do a search for the actress Carey Mulligan. Of course she can't be Anna, since she was born May 28, 1985, but the resemblance is worth noting.

[SherlockJr]

If you want to see a remarkable Anna look-alike, do a search for the actress Carey Mulligan. Of course she can't be Anna, since she was born May 28, 1985, but the resemblance is worth noting.

Hmm, would it be worthwhile to look into ber Mum's name. It's very possible that Anna would have been in the child bearing times in 1985.

I was told lately that Ancestry.com is going to be ordered at this house very soon. So if anyone needs any lookup done send an e-mail to the address listed below

[smile22]

i agree she looks like younger anna at that age here is a link to one of the pictures of her http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://careymulligan.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/d7986b30.jpg&imgrefurl=http://careymulligan.wordpress.com/2007/06/13/hello-world/&h=585&w=692&sz=183&hl=en&start=1&um=1&tbnid=INDQ18ppCNMzvM:&tbnh=118&tbnw=139&prev=/images%3Fq%3DCarey%2BMulligan%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D 1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DX

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

Hmm, would it be worthwhile to look into ber Mum's name. It's very possible that Anna would have been in the child bearing times in 1985.

I was told lately that Ancestry.com is going to be ordered at this house very soon. So if anyone needs any lookup done send an e-mail to the address listed below


I have a subscription to ancestry.com too, but only US records...Foreign records are mega bucks extra. :( I can help if any one needs USA lookups.

I also have a few months left at classmates.com, but I don't think I'll renew that subscription.

ETA:

Another very useful "free" web site, for looking up addresses is www.zillow.com (http://www.zillow.com) In case you are not familiar with it, it is a real estate tool for looking at houses and property values in different neighborhoods across the US. It doesn't give you names of people owning houses, but it does have satellite images of most, (not all) US neighborhoods, showing street names, house numbers and brief description and property value of each house. It also says if a house has recently been sold, or is for sale. The satellite images are nice so you can see what is nearby...like a lake, park, or a school...etc.

[Dr. Doogie]

I have mentioned in the past how damnable coincidences have frustrated our search when we thought that we may have been close. The following is a good recent example.

I found a woman by the name of Dr. Christina Waters who was a very interesting candidate for being Anna. In addition to the closeness of the name, here is a list of reasons I took a good look at her:

*The strong resembelence between this woman and Annasmom. (see pictures below)

*This woman was raised in Santa Cruz - fifty miles away from Half Moon Bay and the next town of any note heading south on Highway 1.

*She was a college professor like Annasmom.

*She was a journalist like Annasmom.

*She is involved in long distance running like Annasbro.

*She is active in organic food co-ops like Anna's family was at the time of her disappearance.

*She is active in current anti-war / peace movements like Annasmom and Dr. George Waters were during the Viet Nam era.

There were other smaller clues that showed multiple similarities between this woman and members of Anna's family - nothing definitive, but all pushing me toward thinking that I had found something important.

Unfortunately, there was one other important fact that escaped me until much time had been spent researching this woman: She is a full twenty years older than Anna. :doh: Dr. Waters was nice enough to return my very strange phone call and explained that she was much older than Anna (later confirmed by independent research). Based on the photograph below, I never would have guessed her to be near 60 years old, but multiple sources back up that age (including that she was attending graduate school in 1973 - something that would have been beyond the abilities of even a remarkably bright kindergartener).

The amazing coincidences between Anna and "C" showed us how two different people can have stunningly similar memories. This episode reminds us of how two seperate people can share similar traits and looks also.

[birdie74]

Wow, that's uncanny! Too bad. I know you must be so disappointed, but I can definitely tell why you would have thought she was around Anna's age based on that picture.

[christine2448]

WOW Dr. Doogie...amazing sleuthing. Thank you for sharing your 'ups and downs' w/results as example. This is fantastic for our sleuthers to see.

Would love for you to stop by the LTWH section here recently put at WS and give us some tips on the SLEUTHERS COME HERE Section :D

hint hint :blowkiss:

[Cubby]

Wow Doug! I can see how she could easily be Annasmoms sister! The resemblence is uncanny. And I can only hope to look so good at 60! That was very kind of her to return your call. Glad she did.

[Dr. Doogie]

...I know you must be so disappointed...

...Thank you for sharing your 'ups and downs'...

Actually, this episode didn't take too much wind out of my sails because it was fortunately resolved in just a matter of a couple days from first discovery to final conclusion. It is when weeks and months have been spent on what ultimately turns out to be a fruitless endeavor that my energy wanes. We all have had our moments of frustration, but we have been blessed to have so many talented researchers involved that when one of us reaches a low point, another person steps into the breach to continue the battle. If Annasmom and I had not found Websleuths, I am sure that any advancements that we may have made have been dwarfed by the knowledge that we current have and the progress that is surely to come.

I was recently asked by a friend of mine when I was explaining my preoccupation with finding missing children, "How many missing children have you found?" Well, the answer is zero. The stark reality of my answer, I must admit, hit me hard. It led to to re-examine and review my motives and strategies. The best explaination of my conclusions is to ask "What else could I do but try to right some wrongs?" I would love to be able to recite a long list of returned children and closure for families, but I believe that measure of success is not realistic. Our victories are tallied in small increments. We help move investigations along and we develop new areas of research for LE. We, every once in awhile, achieve the ultimate victory such as finally supplying a name to the lost such as Maricopa Jane Doe, but those rare sucesses should not be the sole judge our efforts. It is like the character that Jack Nicholson played in "One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Next" when faced with ridicule by his fellow pysch ward patients when his scheme to toss a large fountain through a window and escape failed miserably. He answered, "At least I tried, dammit. At least I tried."


"Far better to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much . . . in the grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."
- Theodore Roosevelt

[Annasmom]

Actually, this episode didn't take too much wind out of my sails because it was fortunately resolved in just a matter of a couple days from first discovery to final conclusion. It is when weeks and months have been spent on what ultimately turns out to be a fruitless endeavor that my energy wanes. We all have had our moments of frustration, but we have been blessed to have so many talented researchers involved that when one of us reaches a low point, another person steps into the breach to continue the battle. If Annasmom and I had not found Websleuths, I am sure that any advancements that we may have made have been dwarfed by the knowledge that we current have and the progress that is surely to come.

I was recently asked by a friend of mine when I was explaining my preoccupation with finding missing children, "How many missing children have you found?" Well, the answer is zero. The stark reality of my answer, I must admit, hit me hard. It led to to re-examine and review my motives and strategies. The best explaination of my conclusions is to ask "What else could I do but try to right some wrongs?" I would love to be able to recite a long list of returned children and closure for families, but I believe that measure of success is not realistic. Our victories are tallied in small increments. We help move investigations along and we develop new areas of research for LE. We, every once in awhile, achieve the ultimate victory such as finally supplying a name to the lost such as Maricopa Jane Doe, but those rare sucesses should not be the sole judge our efforts. It is like the character that Jack Nicholson played in "One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Next" when faced with ridicule by his fellow pysch ward patients when his scheme to toss a large fountain through a window and escape failed miserably. He answered, "At least I tried, dammit. At least I tried."


"Far better to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much . . . in the grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."
- Theodore Roosevelt
Maybe the friend asked that question in all innocence, but I would have answered that you have supported and consoled the parents, siblings, aunts, uncles, grandparents, cousins and friends of missing children.

[Dr. Doogie]

Maybe the friend asked that question in all innocence, but I would have answered that you have supported and consoled the parents, siblings, aunts, uncles, grandparents, cousins and friends of missing children.

The question was asked in innocence and was sincere. My immediate reaction to it was what I found troubling - that I was "keeping score" instead of recognizing that there was value in the discovery process itself. Though I may physically resemble Buddha, I had lost sight of the fact that the journey is as important as the destination. Finding Anna can only occur by the act of searching for Anna. And I was judging my contribution in terms of "Have you found her? Yes or no?" The question provided me an opportunity to reset my value structure and refocus on the process of searching itself.

(And your answer was much better than mine!)

[Cubby]

Dr. Doogie,

If I may add as well, part of what you have also done is to teach us and inspire us other sleuthers. Not only those of us who actively post in this forum, but others who read and may not have much to contribute which has not already been posted. Because of this, another case we at LTWH were working on, we were able to assist reuniting a mother and her 16 year old son who was kidnapped by his father at age 3. They will be meeting over the christmas holiday, as they live on other sides of the country. The family-bio mom, step mom, two children and dad, have been communicating since last February. While you were not directly involved in that so to speak, I can attibute much of what you have done here and the example that you have set in this particular forum to what many others have learned and do. Your actions have also set forth the path which has also assisted Sherlock in reuniting so many adoptees with their birth mother/family. You are like a tree and we are like branches.

:blowkiss:

[raf]

Dr Doogie: you are the best here!
To find something is no easy, and the Anna's case is hard, because GB saying so much lies... and we know not if GB is the real name! So you made a so great job!! I know!
And please being no frustrated, because any search's success depending from God... we can only to work and hoping in the help... I had some success but almost some data was rights! Otherwise as to make a search? In this topic (http://italiangenealogy.tardio.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=7508/highlight=ruggiu.html) ( suanj is me=raf) you can read abt my last success... The sure was only the first name; unsure: the surname ( better a part of surname) and totally wrong the birthyear... however this my last case had good conclusion....

For Anna's case is different, the only sure data are: the pictures! the name ..GB... who knows? In this case we are in presence of a criminal: GB... sure a criminal.... and what he say... hmm... I think no true... so all is difficult in the search...
You spent so much time and energies, and you made a so execellent work...
we must have feith in God... to 100% because he know that we are searching and needing of help... I'm sure that he preparing the way.... any search is as a chain... ring by ring... our last ring ( with a probability of certainty abt 80%) it is the article of 1941... also the lost diamond in the 1931 give us some idea...
the idea that GB was no a genius, but only a swindler... oh yes we cannot say if the Brody of lost diamond is he, but from all GB story I think he was a swindler and a criminal, but no a genius so some error abt identity he maybe made, and we must find it... so by last chain's ring enough sure (1941 article) we must to find more, linking by this article... it is some way for to find the police report abt GB-J J Sgroe? It could be interesting.... I believe this is a necessary step, so we can search and descover if is our GB or not... we are going by exclusion...

I can to say that Internet have wonderful power for a search... as this other (http://italiangenealogy.tardio.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=10417/highlight=candido.html) ...
so please to have feith in God... you are the best... :blowkiss:
raf