Breaking News

[scandi]

On Fox they just said there is a major break in the case, and Ray Kelly will be giving a press conference at 3pm EST.

Thought we might need a thread on this if it is as major as it sounds. If it is not that much we can ask our Mod to delete this thread.

I'm just thankful to know our NYCPD is working so hard on this case to have a press conference on a Sunday! Wow

Scandi

[strach304]

Hope it's good news, can you keep me updated? My granddaughter has the tv. :o

[MrsMush99]

OOOH Thanks, I was watching Close to Home which I taped the other day, I would have missed this. Thanks again!

[strach304]

Scandi, do you know if there is a webcast available? I have butterflies in my tummy :eek:

[chicoliving]

Nothing yet....

[scandi]

Strach, I don't know what that is. Do you mean like an instant update on the Fox news site?

I'll stay here to relay the message for you as best I can. Some others are much better at this than I, but will do my best. I'll write it down as I hear it and then type it out. That workds best for me. :rolleyes:

I hope is isn't something about a police vest they found like on that other thread. LOL You never know, because sometimes Fox gives out goodies and then they poof into thin air. But Mr Kelly is the police commissioner for New York City I believe, so it could be the real think and Littlejohn might be 'Longgone'. :D Hey, I do have to admit that was a good one! YaYa

It also could be they have named his accomplice or that DNA has come back, or . . . . . I wonder Strach if it is the guy he hung with before that you knew?

Scandi

[strach304]

yeah I was talking about a live feed but I looked and didn't find anything. The vest would fit with what the one rape victim said about her attacker being bigger though.

[Rle7]

Live Webcast here:

http://www.wcbstv.com

[scandi]

Nobody stepping to the podium yet!

Scandi

[dark_shadows]

his blood was found in the ties and dna matches

[mocity]

DNA matched... his blood was on the ties used on Imette

[scandi]

Much media attn:

Littlejohn's blood was found on the plastic ties that bound Imette's hands behind her back.

A DNA match was made and he is the prime suspect.

A grand jury will be held now.

[dark_shadows]

Littlejohn is the prime suspect and they have more work to do.But right now,his blood matches the blood found on the ties used to bind Imettes hands.

[scandi]

Gosh, I think they said he is now under arrest for her murder. Maybe that will make him sing like a baby if there was someone else involved. They are still testing other forensic evidence!

[MrsMush99]

No, they said he's not under arrest for the murder. He is being held on parole violation, that's it for now.

[dark_shadows]

Hi Scandi,

Thank-you for the heads upon the news cast.It is very much appreciated.
They are looking into other crimes and they have evidence.

[MrsMush99]

They are investigating other crimes he may been involved in, they have some evidence on the other cases and they are going forward with the other cases as well.

[MrsMush99]

Telephone evidence, puts Littlejohn in the vincinity also on a route to that location.

[dark_shadows]

They just that matching the dna wire ties were a chance in a million.

So who did he call on his cell phone at 6 am?????
The fibers from the blanket were found at his home.

[MrsMush99]

They are seeking an idictment through the grand jury.

[scandi]

The commentator on Fox says her hands were wired behind her back and then her feet were tied with shoelaces. She mentioned the blood was on the wire that held her hands. Odd if this is tru why the police commissioner said on the plastic ties. Also odd that this commentator would say something different than the PC said, don't you think?

Scandi

[MrsMush99]

They just that matching the dna wire ties were a chance in a million.

So who did he call on his cell phone at 6 am?????

Dark, They just said on Fox that you DO NOT have to make a phone call in order for the cell tower to pick up where your phone is. That really surprises me because I never knew that. I thought your phone had to be in use.

[MrsMush99]

The police commisioner rarely holds press conferneces on crimes that have been committed. They must be getting a lot of pressure put on them, and lots of phone calls from the media.

[dark_shadows]

Ok first they said plastic ties then they said wire.Apparentley they just said again plastic ties.

[concernedperson]

Dark, They just said on Fox that you DO NOT have to make a phone call in order for the cell tower to pick up where your phone is. That really surprises me because I never knew that. I thought your phone had to be in use.

I believe the cell phone just has to be on and then it triangulates from tower to tower.

[mic730]

Thank God - and I hope her family gets some peace in knowing they will have a day in court.

[MrsMush99]

I'm sticking with what the commisioner said and he said plastic ties.

[MrsMush99]

I believe the cell phone just has to be on and then it triangulates from tower to tower.

You are probably right. I had no idea, I really thought you had to be calling someone or someone calling you. This is total news to me.

[dark_shadows]

Dark, They just said on Fox that you DO NOT have to make a phone call in order for the cell tower to pick up where your phone is. That really surprises me because I never knew that. I thought your phone had to be in use.Hi there MrsMush,
No it is the towers,that is how the companys charge you when you roam.I still would like to know who he called.

[newtv]

If his DNA is on those ties to me thats it-how can he explain that away-its impossible..only the killer can leave blood behind when the crime scene is remote like that..so imo what else do they even need-that should be enough right there.

[nanandjim]

I have a couple of questions. I wonder where LJ's blood came from--a scratch from Imette? How could LJ have missed cleaning up his blood on the ties??

[MrsMush99]

Hi there MrsMush,
No it is the towers,that is how the companys charge you when you roam.I still would like to know who he called.

I'm confused, did he definately call someone??

[chicoliving]

Trace Gallagher just did a short update on the conference....definately said blood from the plastic ties matches Littlejohn. The material under her nails did not. They may be looking for another person. Sorry, all I could catch.

[Buzzm1]

Much media attn:

Littlejohn's blood was found on the plastic ties that bound Imette's hands behind her back.

A DNA match was made and he is the prime suspect.

A grand jury will be held now.He's been convicted--nothing like his blood evidence on the ties that bound her. Moving ahead; hopefully he'll try to plead for life, rather than wasting the court's time.

[Mel1024]

Blood DNA on ties that bind her hands
Littlejohn's DNA

[MrsMush99]

If there is another person involved, I'm putting my money on Danny Dorrian. Something just does not add up with that guy.

[scandi]

Hi New,

It might just be their procedure to not have the arrest made until the GJ finds cause to go to trial. Crazy! I think it's enough too. But it might be because they are still investigating him on the rapes as Kelly said, and there is more new info on them.

It also could be there is an accomplice, like the one he called for instance that will come into play, and it might even be that the DA's office is trying to cut a deal with the accomplice for further evidence against Littlejohn like other crimes this person might know about or been on with him. Time to negotiate before being charged to have the most evidence to take to the GR to seal the fate of him being bound over for trial. They say forensic evidence is now a problem for evidenciary solidarity now in cases with the advent of all the CSI shows. They have to be oh so perfect in their testing.

Scandi

[Mama-cita]

MSN is saying on their web-page: Breaking news: Bouncer to be charged in student's death

Did the GJ already meet?

[MrsMush99]

He's been convicted--nothing like his blood evidence on the ties that bound her. Moving ahead; hopefully he'll try to plead for life, rather than wasting the court's time.

I don't know if you are aware of this Buzz. But we do not have the death penalty. Also, someone is only charged with 1st degree murder if they kill or cop and something else, sorry I don't remember what that something else is. The most he can be charged with is 2nd degree murder, 25-life.

[Buzzm1]

I don't know if you are aware of this Buzz. But we do not have the death penalty. Also, someone is only charged with 1st degree murder if they kill or cop and something else, sorry I don't remember what that something else is. The most he can be charged with is 2nd degree murder, 25-life.Thanks for that info MM; I have a hard time coming to grips with this being a second degree murder. Not to belittle the position of the police, but our lives are important enough to be considered a 1st Degree charge too.

[Mama-cita]

I don't know if you are aware of this Buzz. But we do not have the death penalty. Also, someone is only charged with 1st degree murder if they kill or cop and something else, sorry I don't remember what that something else is. The most he can be charged with is 2nd degree murder, 25-life.
I had no idea NY did not have the death penalty. They do on the show Law and Order which is set in NY. So much for Hollywood!

It seems to me a travesty that he could potentially be out in 25 years for this!

[MrsMush99]

MSN is saying on their web-page: Breaking news: Bouncer to be charged in student's death

Did the GJ already meet?

No the GJ did not meet yet.

[i.b.nora]

They don't need to 'arrest' him, he is already in custody.

The Grand Jury is used to indict him.

[newtv]

I had no idea NY did not have the death penalty. They do on the show Law and Order which is set in NY. So much for Hollywood!

It seems to me a travesty that he could potentially be out in 25 years for this!
I hunch they can add kidnapping -rape, indignity to a body and on and on-obstruction of justice..he wont be seeing the light of day again.

[MrsMush99]

I had no idea NY did not have the death penalty. They do on the show Law and Order which is set in NY. So much for Hollywood!

It seems to me a travesty that he could potentially be out in 25 years for this!

We used to. It was overturned 2 years ago stating that it was unconstitional. Imagine that? :furious:

[scandi]

Oh, on Fox they just said he will be indighted on murder charges ASAP acc to Kelly!

How can this guy sit there in that jail cell knowing what he did to her. A sexual psychotic and sociopath I know, so he feels no remorse. I don't know that it is entirely possible for the human brain to escape from. How could someone who could commit this kind of a crime not know it was simply awful and not realize it was wrong, etc. He's able to hold a job, isn't coo-koo to a gal reporter that conversed with him about the case at the door to the Falls. Littlejohn ws quite nonshelant {sp LOL}. I suppose that is a tell tale sign he really is a locomaniac!

Scandi

[dark_shadows]

I'm confused, did he definately call someone??I have seen and heard so many news reports that I cannot even say where I heard it.But apparenlty when he was brought to Rikers,his cell phone was checked.

[strach304]

Ok good I will sleep better, they were so uptight about the forensics now they finally got some. He's smart and careful but not perfect. No doubt in my mind if they check Richmond, Balto. and DC they'll be able to tie some more to him, he had to make mistakes along the way.

[strach304]

Didn't we learn during the Laci Peterson case that the newer cell phones are GPS enabled so it would ping a tower as long as it was turned on?
I would assume with the ties if they are plastic as was first reported that if he cut his finger and wiped blood off it still could have absorbed into the plastic and that testing took much longer.

[aussiegran]

Ok good I will sleep better, they were so uptight about the forensics now they finally got some. He's smart and careful but not perfect. No doubt in my mind if they check Richmond, Balto. and DC they'll be able to tie some more to him, he had to make mistakes along the way.My thoughts too strach .I said before I think he has done this before.
:furious: I cant believe they wont charge him with first degree murder.where is the JUSTICE for the victims and their families -
these @#$% dogooders that whinge about the rights of murderers make me :sick:

[Mama-cita]

Oh, on Fox they just said he will be indighted on murder charges ASAP acc to Kelly!

How can this guy sit there in that jail cell knowing what he did to her. A sexual psychotic and sociopath I know, so he feels no remorse. I don't know that it is entirely possible for the human brain to escape from. How could someone who could commit this kind of a crime not know it was simply awful and not realize it was wrong, etc. He's able to hold a job, isn't coo-koo to a gal reporter that conversed with him about the case at the door to the Falls. Littlejohn ws quite nonshelant {sp LOL}. I suppose that is a tell tale sign he really is a locomaniac!

Scandi
LOL at the word "locomaniac"

[Buzzm1]

A Summary, and a Chart, of New York's Sentencing Guidelines:

http://www.queensdefense.com/nysentences.htm

With consecutively served multiple charges--let's call it LWOP.

New York's A1 Felonies:

http://www.new-york-arraignments.com/Aone.htm

[englishleigh]

I have a couple of questions. I wonder where LJ's blood came from--a scratch from Imette? How could LJ have missed cleaning up his blood on the ties??

I wonder if he thought it was her blood?

I think another person is involved and I also think it could be Danny Dorrian.

[hockeymom]

Didn't we learn during the Laci Peterson case that the newer cell phones are GPS enabled so it would ping a tower as long as it was turned on?
I would assume with the ties if they are plastic as was first reported that if he cut his finger and wiped blood off it still could have absorbed into the plastic and that testing took much longer.

strach,yes to the cell phone question. lots of the new ones have gps in them.

I don't mean to be stupid but what are plastic ties? All I can picture are the king you put around your garbage bags,but they would be way to small. Some are plastic coated with wire inside. Do they make them longer?

[Voice of Reason]

I don't know if you are aware of this Buzz. But we do not have the death penalty. Also, someone is only charged with 1st degree murder if they kill or cop and something else, sorry I don't remember what that something else is. The most he can be charged with is 2nd degree murder, 25-life.

There are many other things that may qualify for 1st degree murder aside from killing a cop. Here are two Littlejohn may qualify for...

1st degree murder in NY (NY PL 125.27)

A person is guilty of murder in the first degree when:
1. With intent to cause the death of another person, he causes the
death of such person or of a third person; and . . .
(vii) the victim was killed while the defendant was in the course of committing or attempting to commit and in furtherance of . . . kidnapping in the first degree . . . rape in the first degree, criminal sexual act in the first degree, sexual abuse in the first degree, aggravated sexual abuse in the first degree . . . or . . .
(x) the defendant acted in an especially cruel and wanton manner pursuant to a course of conduct intended to inflict and inflicting torture upon the victim prior to the victim's death.

[Buzzm1]

strach,yes to the cell phone question. lots of the new ones have gps in them.

I don't mean to be stupid but what are plastic ties? All I can picture are the king you put around your garbage bags,but they would be way to small. Some are plastic coated with wire inside. Do they make them longer?Nylon ties, that have a locking tab on the insert. Available in almost every size.

[MrsMush99]

Thank you VoiceofReason. I knew there was more just wasn't sure what. Hopefully they will charge him with 1st degree then. But still, not death penalty.

[strach304]

yeah Hockeymom you have to cut them off, home depot is one place that carries them. They are plastic but I think they are called wire ties because that's were they were originally used for.

On another note I am so glad they got something definite, it was irking me so bad to hear his lawyer and aunt make him out to be a scapegoat and no violence against women, blah, blah, blah. I knew better.

[angie2980]

Hockeymom, I think he used those white plastic ties the police officers use sometimes. The best way I can discribe them is you know those annoying ties that come with kids toys that keep them in the box?? You always have to cut them to get the toy out? That's what they are, but obviously they're long enough to put around some one's hands.

[dark_shadows]

He is held in solitary and will be there for some time.After that he will probably be housed in a PC unit due to the fact that it is public knowledge that he ratted out people for a lesser prison stay.
If he is let out in population and was attacked by others,he can sue the state for not protecting him.
Top most hated with the prison population;
Child molesters
Rats

[LvsAMystry]

This is excellent news. Now I hope they can tie him to the many other crimes he's no doubt committed.

[strach304]

I wonder if anybody here would know about this; is it possible that they never had his dna on file from his past crimes just fingerprints? I'm just wondering if they can trace other unsolved crimes back to him through dna now that they have it but probably didn't until now because of the nature of his previous crimes?

[hockeymom]

Hockeymom, I think he used those white plastic ties the police officers use sometimes. The best way I can discribe them is you know those annoying ties that come with kids toys that keep them in the box?? You always have to cut them to get the toy out? That's what they are, but obviously they're long enough to put around some one's hands.


I know exactly what you mean!! Wow,how awful to be bound with them. Why would someone like him even have them around except for sinister reasons?
I'm so happy they nailed him. I too was tired of the Aunt defending him and then the whole race card thing!!

[marly56]

Thanks for that info MM; I have a hard time coming to grips with this being a second degree murder. Not to belittle the position of the police, but our lives are important enough to be considered a 1st Degree charge too.
MAYBE HE COULD BE CHARGED WITH A HATE CRIME...HER CIVIL RIGHTS WERE VIOLATED.

[PrayersForMaura]

Congrats to all the folks involved to find Littlejohn, arrest him, collect evidence, research ... It took what, two weeks to get this dna and make it official to go to the grand jury? In NY, I would say that's pretty fast.

Justice for Imette. And prayers to her family to stay strong.

[docwho3]

Does a little dance and sings B I N G O B I N GO AND BINGO WAS HIS NAME OOOOO.

[dark_shadows]

I wonder if anybody here would know about this; is it possible that they never had his dna on file from his past crimes just fingerprints? I'm just wondering if they can trace other unsolved crimes back to him through dna now that they have it but probably didn't until now because of the nature of his previous crimes?Strach,
Anyone who is incarcerated in our system with a felony is required to have a swab taken from their check and put on an ident card.If we have a felon that is not in our custody and commited a misdemeanor then they are also swabbed.
We have GPS monitoring along with an ankle bracelet that monitors alchohol in sweat and a phone that is attached with a breathalyzer.

Here is one of the cases that was solved by this DNA system that solved the murder.
Patty Scoville was murdered in 1991.Thirteen years later the case is solved through dna.
Here is the link;

[MrsMush99]

Does a little dance and sings B I N G O B I N GO AND BINGO WAS HIS NAME OOOOO.
:laugh: That is funny.

[strach304]

:laugh: Does a little dance and sings B I N G O B I N GO AND BINGO WAS HIS NAME OOOOO.

I just read the report on the aol news page and ironicly enough his lawyer states that he is upset his pic is being shown all over the country. Who does that sound like? Scott Peterson had good reason to not want his mug on tv as well. I think we can all agree Darryl has very good reason for not wanting his pic out there. :D

[Buzzm1]

NYPD: DNA Link Between Bouncer, Student

NEW YORK - Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly said Sunday authorities would seek an indictment against a parolee with a long rap sheet, the prime suspect in last month's gruesome slaying of a graduate student. Blood found on the plastic ties used to bind Imette St. Guillen has been matched to a bouncer at the bar where she was last seen alive, the New York Police Department commissioner said. Kelly said authorities would take that match and other evidence to a grand jury to get an indictment against Darryl Littlejohn. He didn't give a date for when the grand jury would get the case.

Littlejohn, in custody at a Rikers Island jail on a parole violation, had not been arrested in connection with St. Guillen's death as of Sunday afternoon. The 41-year-old maintains his innocence. His attorney, Kevin O'Donnell, has said the parolee "feels like a scapegoat" and is "upset" because his picture has been published in newspapers across the country. Littlejohn was a bouncer at The Falls bar, where manager has told police he ordered him to escort the woman out when she stayed sipping a drink past the 4 a.m. closing time; he recalled hearing the pair arguing before they disappeared through a side door.

Sometime during the next 17 hours, the student at John Jay College of Criminal Justice in Manhattan was raped, strangled and suffocated. Her naked and bound body was found in a remote section of Brooklyn on Feb. 25 with a sock stuffed in her mouth and her head wrapped with packaging tape. Kelly said the plastic ties were used to bind the 24-year-old's hands behind her back. He wouldn't comment on how blood got onto the restraints but said, "It is a very important piece of evidence for us."

http://tinyurl.com/krk4y


Blood At Crime Scene Matches Littlejohn's DNA

(CBS4) NEW YORK New York Police announce on Sunday that Darryl Littlejohn is the prime suspect in the murder of student Imette St. Gullen, and according to police, they will seek an indictment against him. According to NYPD Commissioner Ray Kelly, blood found on the plastic ties used to bind St. Guillen’s hands behind her back is a DNA match to Littlejohn. Other unspecified evidence found at the scene also links the suspect to the crime, said Kelly.

Authorities will take the DNA match and other evidence to a grand jury to get an indictment against Littlejohn for the slaying of the Boston native, said Kelly. Along with the DNA evidence, phone records also place Littlejohn's cell phone near the location where St. Guillen’s body was found.

According to a manager at The Falls bar, Littlejohn was told to escort the 24-year-old graduate student out when she stayed drinking in the bar past the 4 AM closing time. The manager said he heard the Littlejohn and St. Guillen arguing before they both left through a side door. St. Guillen’s body was found raped and strangled on a Brooklyn service road on February 25 -- 17 hours after she was last seen alive in Manhattan. A sock was stuffed in her mouth and her head was wrapped with packing tape.

Littlejohn is currently being held at Rikers Island on a parole violation.

http://cbs4boston.com/local/local_story_071151446.html

[dark_shadows]

MAYBE HE COULD BE CHARGED WITH A HATE CRIME...HER CIVIL RIGHTS WERE VIOLATED.
Hi Marly,
It is beyond belief how these monsters cry that the eighth amendement is being violated when it comes to them.What about the victims.
Many people do not realize that the inmates have more rights then we do.
People are being sued by these people all of the time.Not only that,people get fired based on complaints.The complaints are known as grievances.It is never ending.If people only knew how good the inmates have it.

[strach304]

Strach,
Anyone who is incarcerated in our system with a felony is required to have a swab taken from their check and put on an ident card.If we have a felon that is not in our custody and commited a misdemeanor then they are also swabbed.
We have GPS monitoring along with an ankle bracelet that monitors alchohol in sweat and a phone that is attached with a breathalyzer.

Here is one of the cases that was solved by this DNA system that solved the murder.
Patty Scoville was murdered in 1991.Thirteen years later the case is solved through dna.
Here is the link;

That's what you would think and I know I saw something about this before but it might've been CSI where I saw it but then again it could've been an actual news report. My question in this particular case is if they already had his dna profile why did they ask him for one if they already had it on file?

[T'sNana]

:eek: I have them around! *L* I use them a lot for decorating outside (vines and floral on my deck, etc. We actually used a lot of them at Christmas to tie the lights and the garland together, as I can't stand the lighted garland because it always seems to have problems and it's not full enough. I guess I have to quit being so sinister. Just Kidding...couldn't resist that. :blowkiss: I know exactly what you mean!! Wow,how awful to be bound with them. Why would someone like him even have them around except for sinister reasons?
I'm so happy they nailed him. I too was tired of the Aunt defending him and then the whole race card thing!!

[dark_shadows]

That's what you would think and I know I saw something about this before but it might've been CSI where I saw it but then again it could've been an actual news report. My question in this particular case is if they already had his dna profile why did they ask him for one if they already had it on file?
There are backlogs all over the US in this databank.Persons are put in as #s.
Massachusetts crime lab let a felon troll around for 13 months before he was found guilty for the rape and murder of writer Christa Worthington.It tool that long for the system to recover a match.

[strach304]

I can finally relax now that I know the cops are the good guys, as you all know that was the main reason for my uneasiness. I gave them my name and address and then became concerned he'd get out and get that info. The FEDS tried to get him on death qualified charges in 2002 and failed but it's believed that he's a cop killer and I had no idea who his connections were at present. You can bet whoever they may be they're gonna cut him loose now.

[Gracelin]

I can finally relax now that I know the cops are the good guys, as you all know that was the main reason for my uneasiness. I gave them my name and address and then became concerned he'd get out and get that info. The FEDS tried to get him on death qualified charges in 2002 and failed but it's believed that he's a cop killer and I had no idea who his connections were at present. You can bet whoever they may be they're gonna cut him loose now.
You did a good thing coming forward the way you did, regardless if it helped or not. You were very brave! Thank god that monster will get his due.

[CherokeeKid]

The ties with the DNA, are those shoe laces or plastic ties as used for binding bags and so on?

Here is an update on the breaking news:
http://wcbstv.com/topstories/local_story_071152610.html

[dark_shadows]

I had no idea who his connections were at present. You can bet whoever they may be they're gonna cut him loose now.




His connections are going to do more than cut him loose.

[marly56]

Hi Marly,
It is beyond belief how these monsters cry that the eighth amendement is being violated when it comes to them.What about the victims.
Many people do not realize that the inmates have more rights then we do.
People are being sued by these people all of the time.Not only that,people get fired based on complaints.The complaints are known as grievances.It is never ending.If people only knew how good the inmates have it.
hi dark_shadows! it IS beyond belief ..Ireally think the laws need to be overhauled or updated or amended.. this is so out of control.

[dark_shadows]

hi dark_shadows! it IS beyond belief ..Ireally think the laws need to be overhauled or updated or amended.. this is so out of control.
Hi Marly:) ,

Like I just said,if people only knew.......

[CherokeeKid]

According to NYPD Commissioner Ray Kelly, blood found on the plastic ties used to bind St. Guillen’s hands behind her back is a DNA match to Littlejohn. Other unspecified evidence found at the scene also links the suspect to the crime, said Kelly.

Authorities will take the DNA match and other evidence to a grand jury to get an indictment against Littlejohn for the slaying of the Boston native, said Kelly.

Along with the DNA evidence, phone records also place Littlejohn's cell phone near the location where St. Guillen’s body was found.
http://cbs4boston.com/local/local_story_071151446.html

[willowhorse]

I can finally relax now that I know the cops are the good guys, as you all know that was the main reason for my uneasiness. I gave them my name and address and then became concerned he'd get out and get that info. The FEDS tried to get him on death qualified charges in 2002 and failed but it's believed that he's a cop killer and I had no idea who his connections were at present. You can bet whoever they may be they're gonna cut him loose now.strach304, I am proud of your courage! You did the right thing and I pray that this evil scum gets what he deserves! NYPD has done a great job and also deserves congratulations. I just wish we could try him in Alabama!!! We have the death penalty!

[concernedperson]

I can finally relax now that I know the cops are the good guys, as you all know that was the main reason for my uneasiness. I gave them my name and address and then became concerned he'd get out and get that info. The FEDS tried to get him on death qualified charges in 2002 and failed but it's believed that he's a cop killer and I had no idea who his connections were at present. You can bet whoever they may be they're gonna cut him loose now.

You are guts to open. You are the reason I fight because I know there are people like you. If everyone wimped out when faced with difficulties..well the battle is lost in the first round. Not saying we all have to be heroes or put ourselves in danger but sometimes ya gotta talk. The talk is what gets bad people off the street. The talk is what brings other comments forward and other ideas. Strach...thanks for being you!

[docwho3]

strach304, I am proud of your courage! You did the right thing and I pray that this evil scum gets what he deserves! NYPD has done a great job and also deserves congratulations. I just wish we could try him in Alabama!!! We have the death penalty! If he has become the embarrassment to some org crime types that he is thought to be NY may also have its own death penalty. Just a thought.

[Vet4Bush]

Theory on why some of Imette's hair was cut off. LJ spilled some of his blood in her hair when he used the tape dispenser which has a razor sharp edge to cut the tape. We know he got cut because some of his blood was on the nylon ties that bound her hands.

[scandi]

Yuppers, I think you've got it Vet4Bush,

I makes perfect sense. Since they don't hae any of his semen I'm wondering if he wasn't sexually attracted to her and inflicted the damage to her body. If he sodomized her though, you would think there would have been semen in or on her, unless he really did use a condom or the accomplice did that part of the job. Too hard to speculate about this. We need to know more! I think all the activity really took place at his home where the blanket and ties and carpet fibres came from.

I wish they had a take now on an accomplice.

Scandi

[PrayersForMaura]

I just wonder how Littlejohn did all this to her. Maybe I am just naive. I mean, I know he's a big and tall guy, but surely she was putting up some sort of a fight. He had to tie her hands with those flimsy plastic ties, tie her ankles with SHOE STRINGS?? Stuff a sock in her mouth and tape her face.
Anyone who has worked with those plastic ties know that you have to loop them around once and then gett he strip into the small white plastic hole. If she was squirming in the least, that's not easy. It's easier than threading a needle, but not easier than some things.

I know he's a big guy, but you'd also think she was flailing her arms around and kicking. I am just trying to figure out which step he did first? Knock her face down and sit on her and tie her hands behind her back? Then her ankles?
I mean, unless she was out cold, it would've been at least a little bit of a struggle for him to do all this stuff. I mean, what, did he just happen to have shoe strings and ties lying around?

There HAD to be a second person, or he drugged her or hit her with something to knock her out first.

[PrayersForMaura]

Also, if he tied her ankles, he probably raped her first? Oh God. All these terrible thoughts are in my mind.
I hate to even think about it, but man, how did he do all of this stuff to her and what did he do when?
Poor Imette. :(

I hope Littlejohn gets everything he deserves and then some. :furious:

[evelyn24]

I just wonder how Littlejohn did all this to her. Maybe I am just naive. I mean, I know he's a big and tall guy, but surely she was putting up some sort of a fight. He had to tie her hands with those flimsy plastic ties, tie her ankles with SHOE STRINGS?? Stuff a sock in her mouth and tape her face.
Anyone who has worked with those plastic ties know that you have to loop them around once and then gett he strip into the small white plastic hole. If she was squirming in the least, that's not easy. It's easier than threading a needle, but not easier than some things.

I know he's a big guy, but you'd also think she was flailing her arms around and kicking. I am just trying to figure out which step he did first? Knock her face down and sit on her and tie her hands behind her back? Then her ankles?
I mean, unless she was out cold, it would've been at least a little bit of a struggle for him to do all this stuff. I mean, what, did he just happen to have shoe strings and ties lying around?

There HAD to be a second person, or he drugged her or hit her with something to knock her out first.

The plastic ties are not flimsy at all.
Pushing someone face down and immediatly putting their hands behind their back and then putting them in the plastic ties while sitting on them, you could then do anything to them...unfortunately. He might have knocked her out, and remember she was also drinking that night.

Ted Bundy did his evil deads all by himself.

[PrayersForMaura]

The plastic ties are not flimsy at all.
Pushing someone face down and immediatly putting their hands behind their back and then putting them in the plastic ties while sitting on them, you could then do anything to them...unfortunately. He might have knocked her out, and remember she was also drinking that night.

Ted Bundy did his evil deads all by himself.Yeah, I was thinking he must've did her hands first. But who knows.
I worked at a hardware store once, so I had to work with those plastic ties. I meant that the plastic ties themselves can be difficult to manuever to get them tied not that they are flimsy and can't stay tied.
Did Bundy use those ties? I am not as familiar with what he did to his victims.

I just wonder how he was able to grab all of these materials while keeping her down?
Just hard for me to envision.

Anyway, I know a lot of murders can do all of this stuff, but it still makes me wonder. Some guys like Bundy were much more planned, at least I understand that they were? I mean, he was a serial killer. He sought out to kill.
This particular murder is still so sick and baffling. It was just a bunch of random things ... tape dispenser, ties, sock, shoe strings.

[scandi]

Remember girls, he had her alive for approx 14.5 hours before she died. She was alive, but we don't know if she was awake or unconscious.

Another thing too, the homeless person I believe said it appeared as he was motivating her towards the van by her elbows when they left the Falls about 4am. There were wires found in that basement and they did report she also had wires around her wrists. I think he wired her up in the basement, and then put a plastic tie around her wrists when he got to his house.

I think the reporter from Fox who corrected the plastic tie to wire today after the press conference, had a tip from someone with knowledge because she was so adament about the fact she had wire around her wrists. I even read the wire in the basement matched the wire on her. Did anyone else read that?

Scandi

[PrayersForMaura]

Okay, well evidently I am naive and a dork!
My boyfriend just brought me a snack and read over my shoulder and he said cops use those kinds of ties sometimes to tie people's hands behind their backs.
He also said that a guy could very easily do all these things by just hitting a girl once and knocking her out.

I guess with everything else Littlejohn did to her, I shouldn't be surprised that he probably beat her too.

Littlejohn makes me sick.
I feel so bad for Imette's family.
For me just to sit here and imagine this stuff, I can't even do it. But they actually had to live the details and see her and live this everday since and everday for the rest of their lives.

[PrayersForMaura]

Remember girls, he had her alive for approx 14.5 hours before she died. She was alive, but we don't know if she was awake or unconscious.

Another thing too, the homeless person I believe said it appeared as he was motivating her towards the van by her elbows when they left the Falls about 4am. There were wires found in that basement and they did report she also had wires around her wrists. I think he wired her up in the basement, and then put a plastic tie around her wrists when he got to his house.

I think the reporter from Fox who corrected the plastic tie to wire today after the press conference, had a tip from someone with knowledge because she was so adament about the fact she had wire around her wrists. I even read the wire in the basement matched the wire on her. Did anyone else read that?

Scandi
Are they sure about the time of death?
I thought that the time that Imette's body was outside could throw off the time of death.

When did Littlejohn dump poor Imette where she was found.... was it around 6am or 6pm?
Was she alive when she was left there, do they think?
Probably not the way she was all taped up.

I was under the impression that her face was taped while she was making a horrified expression and that the tape had kept her face in that frozen expression? That was what was being reported when the case first hit the news.
Made me shiver just thinking about it.

[scandi]

Have we had a link that a tape dispenser was used? It makes sense one was with all the things related to moving. But maybe none of these things were related to moving. The ties could have come from his other security job. The blankets from his house and the tape - Idon't know, but that wide brown plastic packing tape I'vew seen just comes in rolls. And then you have to fill your own dispenser. Just thinkin' :waitasec:

Scandi

[marly56]

Have we had a link that a tape dispenser was used? It makes sense one was with all the things related to moving. But maybe none of these things were related to moving. The ties could have come from his other security job. The blankets from his house and the tape - Idon't know, but that wide brown plastic packing tape I'vew seen just comes in rolls. And then you have to fill your own dispenser. Just thinkin' :waitasec:

Scandi
hi scandi, if he was a hit man he probably HAD them things laying around...also these items would also be used by a rapist...i read other stories about rapes where these items are used. UGH!. poor imette.. she never saw it coming.. God bless her.

[Jovin]

I'm an expert on using packaging tape. I couldn't live without it. Even my kids make jokes about my gift wrapping because I use the clear stuff. It's so easy to cut yourself on the dispenser as you're tearing the tape off...I've done it far too many times. I'm sure this was a possible link to the blood they found. It was probably unnoticed by him, with all the other horrible stuff he'd done to her.

[txsvicki]

Charging him with the murder was only a matter of time. Now, they need to get to the truth of how Imette was taken from the bar. I think it would be horrible to have the world think that she left willingly with that low class freak if she were abducted which is what I think happened. The bar workers need to tell the truth exactly as it happened. A scream and a scuffle in the hallway is not merely an argument and I think that the homeless people reports by the media may not be the truth unless a gun were being held on Imette

[PrayersForMaura]

Ok... there are SO many news stories, I can't keep up with them all. Do LE think the murder and rape took place at Littlejohn's Aunt's house where he lives OR the bar?

I was under the impression it was in the basement of the bar, but then with the info about the blanket having cat hairs on it and that matching his cat, and then the red carpet fibers on the tape matching his carpet, I started thinking this must've happened at his house.

Did his Aunt not see or here anything?

[scandi]

LOL Jovin, You are Too Much too wonderful. It sounds like we have an expert opinion here. LOL YaYa Jovin's in the house! :woohoo:

I'm sorry you cut your fingers all those times, but I am very thankful tonight those dispensers have sharp biting little edges.

:blowkiss: Scandi



PS: Do we have a Smilie dispensing tape? :laugh: BaaHaaaaaaa Hee Hee Haaaaa

[Jovin]

It's a well-known fact in my family. I've fixed drawers, and everything with it. You just need to ask me and I'll give you a 100 uses for packaging tape! I have two of those despensers. I NEED THEM!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v676/Jovin43/laughingpigphoto.gif

[Jovin]

Don't push it, Scandi....I'M AT MY DAUGHTER'S and this isn't my computer! Okay, I'll go looking....but don't hold your breath, lady! GEESH! No rest for the wicked! (Smiley Queen, that is.)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v676/Jovin43/jovin_afrocat.gif

[marly56]

Charging him with the murder was only a matter of time. Now, they need to get to the truth of how Imette was taken from the bar. I think it would be horrible to have the world think that she left willingly with that low class freak if she were abducted which is what I think happened. The bar workers need to tell the truth exactly as it happened. A scream and a scuffle in the hallway is not merely an argument and I think that the homeless people reports by the media may not be the truth unless a gun were being held on Imette
i agree with you , i dont believe either one of them witnessed ''anything''... there is no doubt imo that the word of this horrible crime was all over that area and also newspapers strewn around too, so anyone could have read these papers or easily heard all the details as they were coming out, just as we did on this site.i think they were motivated by the reward.

[PrayersForMaura]

It's a well-known fact in my family. I've fixed drawers, and everything with it. You just need to ask me and I'll give you a 100 uses for packaging tape! I have two of those despensers. I NEED THEM!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v676/Jovin43/laughingpigphoto.gif
What kind of drawers did you fix there, Jovin? The underdrawers or the desk drawers :crazy:
PS: I love your piggie with perfect teeth. :D

[PrayersForMaura]

Charging him with the murder was only a matter of time. Now, they need to get to the truth of how Imette was taken from the bar. I think it would be horrible to have the world think that she left willingly with that low class freak if she were abducted which is what I think happened. The bar workers need to tell the truth exactly as it happened. A scream and a scuffle in the hallway is not merely an argument and I think that the homeless people reports by the media may not be the truth unless a gun were being held on Imette
I totally agree.
Someone who works there has got to know something more.

I don't know that I believe the homeless people either, although I don't like to discredit people who dont' seem to have done anything wrong. I just really find it hard to believe that in the dark from a distance, the guy could identify jewelry. UNLESS it fell off of her as she got into the van when it drove off and he picked it up or something.
But even that would be suspicious.

[marly56]

as far as getting the TRUTH from the dorians i dont think we will EVER get the full account..these folks are rich and powerfull. plus.. there is a possibility the dorians DID give incriminating evidence or information ''off the record''

[Mygirlsadie]

You know men are so strong. I play wrestle with hubby sometimes and within a second he can have me down and I can't even move I always make him stop because it freaks me out that no matter how hard I try I can not move and he just sits there laughing while I struggle. I am not a tiny person either I am 5'5" and 150 lbs so I got weight behind me and I still can not get him off me. I am sure it was nothing for LJ to do what he wanted with Imette. He is nothing more than scum. I wonder though if because she was drinking and LJ was feeding her his us marshall line if maybe she didnt 'fall' for him maybe just a one night thing. I don't know..it happens.



I just wonder how Littlejohn did all this to her. Maybe I am just naive. I mean, I know he's a big and tall guy, but surely she was putting up some sort of a fight. He had to tie her hands with those flimsy plastic ties, tie her ankles with SHOE STRINGS?? Stuff a sock in her mouth and tape her face.
Anyone who has worked with those plastic ties know that you have to loop them around once and then gett he strip into the small white plastic hole. If she was squirming in the least, that's not easy. It's easier than threading a needle, but not easier than some things.

I know he's a big guy, but you'd also think she was flailing her arms around and kicking. I am just trying to figure out which step he did first? Knock her face down and sit on her and tie her hands behind her back? Then her ankles?
I mean, unless she was out cold, it would've been at least a little bit of a struggle for him to do all this stuff. I mean, what, did he just happen to have shoe strings and ties lying around?

There HAD to be a second person, or he drugged her or hit her with something to knock her out first.

[txsvicki]

The creep could have had a gun or knife threatening Imette or he could have hit her. He was able to get control of the women he raped by first talking to them and getting close enough to suddenly strike but he did abduct them into his van. Littlejohn had plenty of experience and could have even put Imette in the basement and came back for her later after the other bar workers had went home. All he had to do was get close enough, like in the hall or out on the street near his van . It will be interesting to see if any videos show his van going past with only him visible and at what times.

[strach304]

Thanks guys, I have no doubt they will want my info now to help with their case and I provided some proof to back it up so they can see I am legit. Imette is my daughter, yours, theirs etc. I have two wonderful daughters myself that I watch over like a protective mama tiger, scum like Littlejohn and Peterson, Avery really make my blood boil.

We don't know the results of the toxicology that was done on Imette and another thought I won't discount is the persuasion of a gun. The initial reports said she was beat and battered so I tend to think he hit her besides being much stronger and able to overpower her. My opinion is that he is a serial rapist and only chose to kill when he felt it was necessary and the tape and ties along with other assorted items was something he did have on hand in his vehicle and home. I don't think the Aunt was home that day.

[cammy-g]

As for the ties, you can insert the end in so all that you have to do is slip the loop over both ands and pull the end to tighten. I don't think he took he out bound with wire from the basement, (it is truly possible though) but the time if the homeless npeople are correct just does not allow for that to happen so quickly and also does not make sense to the conversation that the HLP said they overheard.

I suggest he did offer her a ride if they left between 4am and 4:20 anything later supports the basement theory IMHO.

[less0305]

My question in this particular case is if they already had his dna profile why did they ask him for one if they already had it on file?

Just to see his reaction.

[cammy-g]

I just really find it hard to believe that in the dark from a distance, the guy could identify jewelry. UNLESS it fell off of her as she got into the van when it drove off and he picked it up or something.
But even that would be suspicious.
Unless of course there was a street lamp they were under.

[docwho3]

Unless of course there was a street lamp they were under.News article said he parked under or next to a street lamp.

Edited to add:
Link originally posted in post # 1 of this thread by PonderingThings.
. . ."He parked in front of a lamp. He went in the front door," Cruz said. "When he came out the side door, he peeked his head out, and he came out the side door with her. They weren't fighting or nothing." . . .http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/65076.htm

[mesnowmom123]

About the bar workers.....

If I were in that bar, and I heard a scuffle between a young girl and a bouncer, I would immediately check it out. I mean, in what world would such a tiny person EVER want to argue with a bouncer.

Putting myself in her position, drunk or not, I would NEVER see fit to argue with a bouncer under any circumstances. So it seems to me, that 'scuffle' and 'muffled scream' should have raised some huge flags. Yet no one found it odd enough to investigate.

[evelyn24]

The creep could have had a gun or knife threatening Imette or he could have hit her. He was able to get control of the women he raped by first talking to them and getting close enough to suddenly strike but he did abduct them into his van. Littlejohn had plenty of experience and could have even put Imette in the basement and came back for her later after the other bar workers had went home. All he had to do was get close enough, like in the hall or out on the street near his van . It will be interesting to see if any videos show his van going past with only him visible and at what times.

Good point, he could have used a weapon, like a knife. We have heard rumors that Imette's genital area was cut/sliced.

[Vet4Bush]

But will they be able to pick him out of a lineup?

[evelyn24]

But will they be able to pick him out of a lineup?
Not being able to pick someone out of a lineup is not a big deal, especially if they have forensic evidence to back up the claims. From what I understand, these rapes occurred months ago.
I would have been surprised if they did remember his face in a line up considering whomever did the rapes covered their heads with a blanket so they couldn't see.

jmo

[Vet4Bush]

The fact that they were not able to pick him out of a lineup will be used by the defense as an element of doubt about his guilt. It may not carry much weight but there it is.

[newtv]

If they have the blood evidence they say they have..it wont matter if he can be picked out of a line-up..he is not OJ Simpson..noone is going to be trying to say the blood was planted and be believed.
it wont matter about anything if the blood DNA puts him as the ties that bind...(no pun intended)..he is screwed.

[less0305]

Putting myself in her position, drunk or not, I would NEVER see fit to argue with a bouncer under any circumstances.

My husband was a police officer for 20 years and I have worked in law enforcement agencies for many years - a lot of police officers will tell you they'd rather fight a man than a drunk woman any day. Drunk women are the worst. So as much as people say they'd never see themselves fighting police or fighting so-and-so - getting drunk does some strange things to people. Not saying that you would ... just saying that once the alcohol takes affect some women are ready to take on Godzilla. And I'm not saying that this young lady did that either. Just posting another view about the drunk fighting thing...

That being said.... I'm with you on the part about why didn't the other bar workers go see what the hell was going on. There's no way I would hear a fight or a scuffle or argument - particularly if one of my employees was involved - and not go check it out. Human nature is to be inquisitive and curious and down right nosey about stuff.

[dark_shadows]

My husband was a police officer for 20 years and I have worked in law enforcement agencies for many years - a lot of police officers will tell you they'd rather fight a man than a drunk woman any day. Drunk women are the worst. So as much as people say they'd never see themselves fighting police or fighting so-and-so - getting drunk does some strange things to people. Not saying that you would ... just saying that once the alcohol takes affect some women are ready to take on Godzilla. And I'm not saying that this young lady did that either. Just posting another view about the drunk fighting thing...Hello Less,
Well you are so right about the drunk women.I have been assualted more by drunken women that anyone.They are the worse,acting defiant and wanting to fight us.

[luvahgirl]

And they may see so much of that rowdy kind of behavior that they become rather numb to it and can ignore it, whereas we who seldom see such antics are drawn to it like stink on chit. I can certainly see them not running to see what was up. And knowing it was a small woman and a big bouncer they knew who'd win!

[fran]

I haven't been able to follow this case as closely as some of you, so I may have my facts wrong.

I wasn't sure this guy did it until this DNA came back on the ties. But from a brief clip I saw last night, between the cell phone putting him in the area where she was found and the DNA on the ties, that's proof that he is their man.

Unless there's a witness of the actual murder, it's considered a circumstantial case. All the evidence gathered, including DNA, is circumstantial. It's like a big puzzle, when fit together gives the big picture. Like 'that' recent case we watched there were 47(?) reasons why LE looked at that suspect and knew he was the guilty party. They may not have 47 reasons here yet, but they're working on it.

I too had doubts about the witnesses. But something one of them said came back in another report. One of the witnesses said he saw him bring her out the side door. I believe I saw that the owner of the bar said he 'took her out the side door.' That makes me think he is a reliable witness.

As to why Imette went with him. Didn't the guy say something about the bouncer telling the woman "It's alright." I could be wrong of the words but it made me think he was trying to tell her it's ok, and he'd give her a ride home, yadda, yadda, yadda. Being the bouncer from there may have given her a(false) sense of security. Plus, he may have fooled her in that he was actually a LE officer just working an extra job. A lot of them do that sort of thing.

I'm also very suspicious of him being upset that his picture is being plastered all over the country. He even covered himself when going from the police car into headquarters because there was media around. What and who is he hiding from?

JMHO
fran

[annie mae]

Fran. Hi. I also was wondering about why this freak was worried about his picture being shown to all of America. I also was wondering who is paying for this man's attorney,one of the ole gang members????

[fran]

Fran. Hi. I also was wondering about why this freak was worried about his picture being shown to all of America. I also was wondering who is paying for this man's attorney,one of the ole gang members????

annie:
I thought the attorney was appointed to him. By the public defenders office? :waitasec: I could be wrong though.

JMHO
fran

[annie mae]

thank you so much for that info. I get so "ahead" of myself trying to read all that somehow, somewhere, I missed that, who knows. Sorry :doh: annie mae

[strach304]

You see ladies great minds think alike :) As soon as I read he was complaining about his pic being in the media it made me think Of Scott Peterson and we know why he didn't want his pic in the media.

[panthera]

My husband was a police officer for 20 years and I have worked in law enforcement agencies for many years - a lot of police officers will tell you they'd rather fight a man than a drunk woman any day. Drunk women are the worst. So as much as people say they'd never see themselves fighting police or fighting so-and-so - getting drunk does some strange things to people. Not saying that you would ... just saying that once the alcohol takes affect some women are ready to take on Godzilla. And I'm not saying that this young lady did that either. Just posting another view about the drunk fighting thing...

That being said.... I'm with you on the part about why didn't the other bar workers go see what the hell was going on. There's no way I would hear a fight or a scuffle or argument - particularly if one of my employees was involved - and not go check it out. Human nature is to be inquisitive and curious and down right nosey about stuff.It was reported that she was argumentative, wanted to finish her drink after being told to leave and had to be escorted out of the bar. Of course, the bartender reported this, and being Danny Dorrian who covered up for Littlejohn for a week, don't know if it's true or not. The one thing that makes it seem true is that she and her friend had an argument outside the Pioneer Bar when they split up. I knew someone about Imette's size and when intoxicated she'd think she would be able to beat up someone the size of Littlejohn and win.

[newtv]

It was reported that she was argumentative, wanted to finish her drink after being told to leave and had to be escorted out of the bar. Of course, the bartender reported this, and being Danny Dorrian who covered up for Littlejohn for a week, don't know if it's true or not. The one thing that makes it seem true is that she and her friend had an argument outside the Pioneer Bar when they split up. I knew someone about Imette's size and when intoxicated she'd think she would be able to beat up someone the size of Littlejohn and win.
but the point is being lost here-if she tried to beat up a non sadist- a non predator-thats where it would be left-she would maybe be restrained..
it wouldnt matter what she did-if he is a killer - he kills - if he is a rapist he rapes-doesnt matter what the girl does or doesnt do-you dont kill people who try to beat u up when u are a normal person-u restrain them-u throw them in a drunk tank..but thats it- he would have done the same thing even if she was sober..he was in the mood to kill obviously- he was in the mood to rape obviously.

[panthera]

but the point is being lost here-if she tried to beat up a non sadist- a non predator-thats where it would be left-she would maybe be restrained..
it wouldnt matter what she did-if he is a killer - he kills - if he is a rapist he rapes-doesnt matter what the girl does or doesnt do-you dont kill people who try to beat u up when u are a normal person-u restrain them-u throw them in a drunk tank..but thats it- he would have done the same thing even if she was sober..he was in the mood to kill obviously- he was in the mood to rape obviously.
Yes, he is a sociopathic monster, and what I meant to say is that if she was just a little bit argumentative toward him that would set him off into a rage against her because he is not normal.

[newtv]

Yes, he is a sociopathic monster, and what I meant to say is that if she was just a little bit argumentative toward him that would set him off into a rage against her because he is not normal.
I dont think it would matter-she was his target..I dont think it would have mattered if she left on her own - he would have followed her once she left the door.
If he is going to kill his mind is made up- I dont think it was spur of the moment- maybe it would have been someone that night..it was her because she was in the wrong place at teh wrong time..
I doubt the inciting to rage was a factor except if he wanted to explain it as sucxh-but it isnt the encitement to rage that created a killer-he is going to kill who is in his path for no reason other than he is bigger.

[LovelyPigeon]

As soon as I read he was complaining about his pic being in the media it made me think Of Scott Peterson and we know why he didn't want his pic in the media.


As I recall, Peterson didn't want his photo in the media so his lover Frey wouldn't see and recognize him. Is there a wife or lover that Littlejohn didn't want to attract the attention of?

[concernedperson]

It is probably that he didn't want any more victims to come forward. I know that is hard to understand.

[LovelyPigeon]

It is probably that he didn't want any more victims to come forward. I know that is hard to understand.

It's not hard to understand, but not the reason Peterson didn't want his photo in the media.

Have any more victims come forward now that Littlejohn's photo has been in the media?

[strach304]

I believe that's how they got the ones they do have, so you see LP the more they show his pic the more people will see it. My Peterson comparison was simply to demonstrate the bigger picture but I think most got it. :rolleyes:

[txsvicki]

I dont think it would matter-she was his target..I dont think it would have mattered if she left on her own - he would have followed her once she left the door.
If he is going to kill his mind is made up- I dont think it was spur of the moment- maybe it would have been someone that night..it was her because she was in the wrong place at teh wrong time..
I doubt the inciting to rage was a factor except if he wanted to explain it as sucxh-but it isnt the encitement to rage that created a killer-he is going to kill who is in his path for no reason other than he is bigger.

I agree. Working at a bar, there was a steady stream of attractive women for littlejohn to have flirted with and he had to of been turned down by every single one of them. He wasn't interested in being normal and he acted on opportunity. Women walking down the street alone, those who looked like immigrants, young, and probably very small since he is a short man. He would have started breaking into women's homes if he weren't doing it already. Imette was a target and he is a predator. She was very normal and smart. I doubt if she would have caused much fuss at all anywhere due to the kind of work she was going into. Getting drunk and causing a bar room brawl doesn't fit in with getting a Master's degree at age 24 and all the other work that she did as a volunteer. I do not believe that she caused any trouble at the bar at all. The bartender wanted a reason to have put her on the outside of the bar with littlejohn .

[newtv]

I agree. Working at a bar, there was a steady stream of attractive women for littlejohn to have flirted with and he had to of been turned down by every single one of them. He wasn't interested in being normal and he acted on opportunity. Women walking down the street alone, those who looked like immigrants, young, and probably very small since he is a short man. He would have started breaking into women's homes if he weren't doing it already. Imette was a target and he is a predator. She was very normal and smart. I doubt if she would have caused much fuss at all anywhere due to the kind of work she was going into. Getting drunk and causing a bar room brawl doesn't fit in with getting a Master's degree at age 24 and all the other work that she did as a volunteer. I do not believe that she caused any trouble at the bar at all. The bartender wanted a reason to have put her on the outside of the bar with littlejohn .This monster should be shot and killed on the spot-these are the most horrific forms of violation on a human-not just raping-not just killing-but cutting her up and slicing up her genitals- I mean enuf-this is a rabid monster and I hope he is released into the regular population in prison and someone cuts his dick off - and then while he is dealing with that they take a piece of his body off one slow cut at a time.

[marly56]

I agree. Working at a bar, there was a steady stream of attractive women for littlejohn to have flirted with and he had to of been turned down by every single one of them. He wasn't interested in being normal and he acted on opportunity. Women walking down the street alone, those who looked like immigrants, young, and probably very small since he is a short man. He would have started breaking into women's homes if he weren't doing it already. Imette was a target and he is a predator. She was very normal and smart. I doubt if she would have caused much fuss at all anywhere due to the kind of work she was going into. Getting drunk and causing a bar room brawl doesn't fit in with getting a Master's degree at age 24 and all the other work that she did as a volunteer. I do not believe that she caused any trouble at the bar at all. The bartender wanted a reason to have put her on the outside of the bar with littlejohn .
hi txsvicki, the dorians.. seem to be a male centered pub.. so i am not surprised that danny said ''i hope i still have my job tomorrw'' when he was questioned about what really happened or when littlejohn showed-up at work a few days later and after seeing so much media attention for imette,s murder, he said '' i dont see what all the fuss is about'' also when a reporter asked littlejohn what imette was wearing, littlejohn replied'' all i remember is her breast weren,t hanging out''. then there,s the jennifer levin fiasco and the way that was regarded [no regards] at all.

[marly56]

This monster should be shot and killed on the spot-these are the most horrific forms of violation on a human-not just raping-not just killing-but cutting her up and slicing up her genitals- I mean enuf-this is a rabid monster and I hope he is released into the regular population in prison and someone cuts his dick off - and then while he is dealing with that they take a pice of his body off one slow cut at a time.
hi newtv, yes he is a monster that lives among civilized people...and the dorians? ''when good men do nothing, EVIL PREVAILS''. they the dorians MUST be held accountable. they KNEW he was the last person seen with her alive, they HEARD her scream.. then they READ about her savage murder..and they kept silent..even on the night that she screamed as she was ''escorted'' by littlejohn out the side door,it was only 4 or 5 hours later in the early morning that imette,s roomie and friends went to all the pubs on that block [including the falls] they showed imettes photo as a missing person till noon and still there was silence from the falls. imette maybe would be alive if the falls had stepped up to the plate and spoke quickly to her roomie and said something like ''well she was here ,then she was last seen with .....

[newtv]

hi newtv, yes he is a monster that lives among civilized people...and the dorians? ''when good men do nothing, EVIL PREVAILS''. they the dorians MUST be held accountable. they KNEW he was the last person seen with her alive, they HEARD her scream.. then they READ about her savage murder..and they kept silent..even on the night that she screamed as she was ''escorted'' by littlejohn out the side door,it was only 4 or 5 hours later in the early morning that imette,s roomie and friends went to all the pubs on that block [including the falls] they showed imettes photo as a missing person till noon and still there was silence from the falls. imette maybe would be alive if the falls had stepped up to the plate and spoke quickly to her roomie and said something like ''well she was here ,then she was last seen with .....
I am totally in agreement-I cant believe they even have that bar open right now-just seems totally wrong to me-they will have their asses sued off

[Buzzm1]

The bar's license is up for renewal in July, plus they are already charged with serving a minor in February. These same owners have virtually spit on police efforts before, during the Preppy murder. They are hiding behind some of the most powerful lawyers in the city. It's too bad the punishment won't fit the crime. It's repulsive when you have a sleazy shyster family, like this, operating right on the edge of the law, and frequently crossing over it, but they manage to get away with most of it, by paying for high-priced legal help.

[marly56]

The bar's license is up for renewal in July, plus they are already charged with serving a minor in February. These same owners have virtually spit on police efforts before, during the Preppy murder. They are hiding behind some of the most powerful lawyers in the city. It's too bad the punishment won't fit the crime. It's repulsive when you have a sleazy shyster family, like this, operating right on the edge of the law, and frequently crossing over it, but they manage to get away with most of it, by paying for high-priced legal help.
a real bunch of LOWLIFE!

[mocity]

I hope they don't start getting alot of traffic of people just being curious and wanting to check it out. In my opinion, as the owner of the bar he had a responsibility to check out who worked for him and to ensure his patrons (while at his bar) were relatively safe.

[panthera]

The bar's license is up for renewal in July, plus they are already charged with serving a minor in February. These same owners have virtually spit on police efforts before, during the Preppy murder. They are hiding behind some of the most powerful lawyers in the city. It's too bad the punishment won't fit the crime. It's repulsive when you have a sleazy shyster family, like this, operating right on the edge of the law, and frequently crossing over it, but they manage to get away with most of it, by paying for high-priced legal help.
They are, imo, as disgusting as the murderer of Imette. I do believe they are on the slippery slope to their own 'last call'. Protesters out there daily, and who knows what was on the computers NYPD took from the place.

[willowhorse]

I hope they don't start getting alot of traffic of people just being curious and wanting to check it out. In my opinion, as the owner of the bar he had a responsibility to check out who worked for him and to ensure his patrons (while at his bar) were relatively safe.
The bar owner lied to Imette's friends when they were looking for her the next day. His actions are inexcusable because if he had told the truth there was a possibilty of Imette being rescued. The bar owner should be prosecuted for his lies! His actions contributed to Imette's death!

[nanandjim]

The bar owner lied to Imette's friends when they were looking for her the next day. His actions are inexcusable because if he had told the truth there was a possibilty of Imette being rescued. The bar owner should be prosecuted for his lies! His actions contributed to Imette's death!
Not only that, had he walked outside to see who screamed (and it should have been rather obvious), he could have saved her.

[dark_shadows]

Strach,
Anyone who is incarcerated in our system with a felony is required to have a swab taken from their check and put on an ident card.If we have a felon that is not in our custody and commited a misdemeanor then they are also swabbed.
We have GPS monitoring along with an ankle bracelet that monitors alchohol in sweat and a phone that is attached with a breathalyzer.

This is todays story





Offenders Released For Hi-Tech Monitoring Experiment



"I'm more or less a guinea pig as far as the state is concerned," said Jason Lowery, 22. He is one of the first dozen inmate "guinea pigs" taking part in the early release experiment that started last week. Lowery, of Barre, is a convicted burglar who was released on furlough after completing two years of a sentence for burglary, petty larceny, and escape from furlough. Last month he committed a minor probation violation that could have brought ten days in jail. But instead, corrections officials placed him in an early-release experiment that requires he wear an electronic monitor on his ankle 24 hours a day even in the shower.
"I have a modem hooked up to my phone at home. And what it does when I 'm supposed to be home it calls and downloads information like my body temperature ,if I have alcohol in my system and if I'm not around," explained Lowery.



"If there's the slightest thing that's different from the ordinary we're gonna know about it and we're gonna check on it," said Silvia.

Silvia and other probation officers this week received special training on five different types hi-tech monitors that will be used during the year long experiment. The devices will record and measure every moment of the prisoner's daily movement and activity in ways that often sound like science fiction.

the full story (http://www.wcax.com/Global/story.asp?S=4638063)

[luckyevan93]

Amazing, what all high tech gizmos they come up with for the perps, all the while, what do they do for the victims? Not even an Amber Alert or a full scale search, half the time, or so it seems. Sorry, my frustration's starting to show. I guess I'm not a newbie on here after all? (Uh, did I pass the induction test?) lol..

L/Evan

[newtv]

Amazing, what all high tech gizmos they come up with for the perps, all the while, what do they do for the victims? Not even an Amber Alert or a full scale search, half the time, or so it seems. Sorry, my frustration's starting to show. I guess I'm not a newbie on here after all? (Uh, did I pass the induction test?) lol..

L/Evan
its very true-u should feel frustrated
most of the money society spends is in monitoring the 20 percent of the population who dont play by the rules

[tipper]

Not only that, had he walked outside to see who screamed (and it should have been rather obvious), he could have saved her.I don't think there is any requirement for private citizens to come to the aid of anyone. At least there didn't used to be...
But I wonder what his liability is in terms of Imette's assumption that he has provided a safe environment?

[strach304]

Wanna give you guys an update on where I'm at and what I can tell you. I got some very good advice from someone we are all fond of and they want me to keep quiet for now about their involvement as well as mine because it's a big advantage. This is someone I knew I could trust plus they would know the best way to deal with it and have my best interest at heart.

There's not gonna be a way around exposing my identity because it's such a high profile case and with my situation with the ex and then the possibility of my name going on a witness list would definitely make it back to DL would be dangerous. Then of course I'm not media material as far as having my pic taken and the press at my door, I'm a very private person with two daughters I don't want tormented or harrassed etc. The information itself she said may even be too predjudicial for trial but not sure in NY. I will have to decide before April 13th. This person was willing to go to NY with me today but I'm unable to get away right now anyway and I still need time to think it over.

I feel like I only wanted to help with the case to get justice for Imette and so this doesn't happen to anyone else but it's not that easy and some of the things I told her she agrees that I do have info that could help LE with their case even if direct testimony isn't allowed because of the predjudicial vs. probative aspect. I know his lawyer would fight to keep it out. It's extremely hard to keep my mouth shut when I see false statements being made on his behalf and then the evidence LE has gathered being trashed or not considered sufficient. If they can get a conviction without me then great, problem solved.

For now I'm sitting tight and waiting because sometimes things change overnight in fact. The van issue and the homeless man's statement are coming under fire so when stuff like that happens I get upset so I'm just a little stressed lately. I do wanna thank everyone here for your great support, advice and caring because you have no idea how much it means to me and I know everyone here understands the enormity of the situation. My family knows very little about this and I can promise this should my sister, niece or mother find out they'd be selling my story (they don't know anything anyway) to the National Enquirer. :eek:

[T'sNana]

I think you're very brave to do what you are doing. I'm glad you had someone to go with you and advise you on this. Best of luck to you through this difficult situation. Wanna give you guys an update on where I'm at and what I can tell you. I got some very good advice from someone we are all fond of and they want me to keep quiet for now about their involvement as well as mine because it's a big advantage. This is someone I knew I could trust plus they would know the best way to deal with it and have my best interest at heart.

There's not gonna be a way around exposing my identity because it's such a high profile case and with my situation with the ex and then the possibility of my name going on a witness list would definitely make it back to DL would be dangerous. Then of course I'm not media material as far as having my pic taken and the press at my door, I'm a very private person with two daughters I don't want tormented or harrassed etc. The information itself she said may even be too predjudicial for trial but not sure in NY. I will have to decide before April 13th. This person was willing to go to NY with me today but I'm unable to get away right now anyway and I still need time to think it over.

I feel like I only wanted to help with the case to get justice for Imette and so this doesn't happen to anyone else but it's not that easy and some of the things I told her she agrees that I do have info that could help LE with their case even if direct testimony isn't allowed because of the predjudicial vs. probative aspect. I know his lawyer would fight to keep it out. It's extremely hard to keep my mouth shut when I see false statements being made on his behalf and then the evidence LE has gathered being trashed or not considered sufficient. If they can get a conviction without me then great, problem solved.

For now I'm sitting tight and waiting because sometimes things change overnight in fact. The van issue and the homeless man's statement are coming under fire so when stuff like that happens I get upset so I'm just a little stressed lately. I do wanna thank everyone here for your great support, advice and caring because you have no idea how much it means to me and I know everyone here understands the enormity of the situation. My family knows very little about this and I can promise this should my sister, niece or mother find out they'd be selling my story (they don't know anything anyway) to the National Enquirer. :eek:

[indigomood]

Wanna give you guys an update on where I'm at and what I can tell you. I got some very good advice from someone we are all fond of and they want me to keep quiet for now about their involvement as well as mine because it's a big advantage. This is someone I knew I could trust plus they would know the best way to deal with it and have my best interest at heart.

There's not gonna be a way around exposing my identity because it's such a high profile case and with my situation with the ex and then the possibility of my name going on a witness list would definitely make it back to DL would be dangerous. Then of course I'm not media material as far as having my pic taken and the press at my door, I'm a very private person with two daughters I don't want tormented or harrassed etc. The information itself she said may even be too predjudicial for trial but not sure in NY. I will have to decide before April 13th. This person was willing to go to NY with me today but I'm unable to get away right now anyway and I still need time to think it over.

I feel like I only wanted to help with the case to get justice for Imette and so this doesn't happen to anyone else but it's not that easy and some of the things I told her she agrees that I do have info that could help LE with their case even if direct testimony isn't allowed because of the predjudicial vs. probative aspect. I know his lawyer would fight to keep it out. It's extremely hard to keep my mouth shut when I see false statements being made on his behalf and then the evidence LE has gathered being trashed or not considered sufficient. If they can get a conviction without me then great, problem solved.

For now I'm sitting tight and waiting because sometimes things change overnight in fact. The van issue and the homeless man's statement are coming under fire so when stuff like that happens I get upset so I'm just a little stressed lately. I do wanna thank everyone here for your great support, advice and caring because you have no idea how much it means to me and I know everyone here understands the enormity of the situation. My family knows very little about this and I can promise this should my sister, niece or mother find out they'd be selling my story (they don't know anything anyway) to the National Enquirer. :eek:
Thank you strach for your contributions to this case. I don't imagine it's been easy for you. The stress and enormity of it all must be overwhelming. Sleep on it, perhaps things will be clearer in the am. Take all the time you need and then follow your instinct. Most of the time our own intuition and gut guide us to do what it is we need to do.

I have fallen behind in coverage of this case, real life taking forefront to my cyber surfing time. I hope to read and get caught up with the latest. We all want justice for Imette... she endured something so very evil and heinous that most of only read about. May justice prevail in this case.

Take care of you strach! :blowkiss:

[cricket]

Wanna give you guys an update on where I'm at and what I can tell you. I got some very good advice from someone we are all fond of and they want me to keep quiet for now about their involvement as well as mine because it's a big advantage. This is someone I knew I could trust plus they would know the best way to deal with it and have my best interest at heart.

There's not gonna be a way around exposing my identity because it's such a high profile case and with my situation with the ex and then the possibility of my name going on a witness list would definitely make it back to DL would be dangerous. Then of course I'm not media material as far as having my pic taken and the press at my door, I'm a very private person with two daughters I don't want tormented or harrassed etc. The information itself she said may even be too predjudicial for trial but not sure in NY. I will have to decide before April 13th. This person was willing to go to NY with me today but I'm unable to get away right now anyway and I still need time to think it over.

I feel like I only wanted to help with the case to get justice for Imette and so this doesn't happen to anyone else but it's not that easy and some of the things I told her she agrees that I do have info that could help LE with their case even if direct testimony isn't allowed because of the predjudicial vs. probative aspect. I know his lawyer would fight to keep it out. It's extremely hard to keep my mouth shut when I see false statements being made on his behalf and then the evidence LE has gathered being trashed or not considered sufficient. If they can get a conviction without me then great, problem solved.

For now I'm sitting tight and waiting because sometimes things change overnight in fact. The van issue and the homeless man's statement are coming under fire so when stuff like that happens I get upset so I'm just a little stressed lately. I do wanna thank everyone here for your great support, advice and caring because you have no idea how much it means to me and I know everyone here understands the enormity of the situation. My family knows very little about this and I can promise this should my sister, niece or mother find out they'd be selling my story (they don't know anything anyway) to the National Enquirer. :eek:


strach - just wanted to let you know I am praying for you. This has got to be hard for you as it drudges up old memories. I am sure you will make the right decision about what you should do and how much you should get involved.

I wouldn't be worried about correcting things you hear or read about that are inaccurate. Just remember that all that counts is what the jury hears (assuming it gets to a trial). What is said now in the media, etc. is totally irrelevant. (Think: Geragos!) DL's attorney is on the news nightly getting his face and name out there - I'm sure for the publicity. DL hasn't even been charged with a Imette's murder yet - how he can say he is his attorney on that and then complain about not having access to evidence or discovery? he hasn't been assigned to represent him on a murder charge - why would he get the evidence? He's just a publicity seeker.

Hang in there - I'm glad someone is giving you advice. If it's not GA - have you thought of calling her? You need someone like that who can protect you.

[Insomniac]

I agree. Working at a bar, there was a steady stream of attractive women for littlejohn to have flirted with and he had to of been turned down by every single one of them. He wasn't interested in being normal and he acted on opportunity. Women walking down the street alone, those who looked like immigrants, young, and probably very small since he is a short man. He would have started breaking into women's homes if he weren't doing it already. Imette was a target and he is a predator. She was very normal and smart. I doubt if she would have caused much fuss at all anywhere due to the kind of work she was going into. Getting drunk and causing a bar room brawl doesn't fit in with getting a Master's degree at age 24 and all the other work that she did as a volunteer. I do not believe that she caused any trouble at the bar at all. The bartender wanted a reason to have put her on the outside of the bar with littlejohn .I just wanted to point out here, that what you've said about the type of person who gets drunk and/or gets into a barroom brawl is incorrect and uninformed. While I agree that the Dorrians may have cooked up a CYA story about the condition she was in, her getting a masters degree, etc has nothing to do with why I would think that.

To make this perfectly clear, I will start by saying that I have no idea whether she was drunk, intoxicated, or whatever, I wasn't there and neither were you, and media reports are inconsistent. I also want to make clear before adding my next point, I have no reason to believe or conclude she's an alcoholic. That's not my point here. But, I would like to say, in regards to misnomers about the types of people who get drunk and into fights, that alcoholics (who often fall into that catergory) come from all walks of life and professions, and some manage to get masters degrees and are good samaritins. Go to an AA meeting and you'll see that for yourself, take it one step further and check out one for PROFESSIONALS. There are also people who get into fights with the smallest amounts of alcohol because their bodies don't metabolize it well, this is sometimes called pathological intoxication. And there are some people who just have low tolerances to alcohol has a much stronger effect on them. Nothing at all to do with their "moral character" or personality.

I went on this rant, because I know many fine people who have had issues with alcohol and have struggled with their self-esteem and image because of the misconceptions people have of people who drink. This is especially true for women. One such person was my aunt, who eventually died from a pill addiction years after her alcoholism progressed. She was the mom of 3 kids, all now grown, a music teacher, singer, pta mom, etc. She did it all while she was struggling with a disease that eventually took her life.

What happened to Imette was way beyond any type of comprehension, and I could care less what she did or said, because what happened to her was unfathomable. I also felt quite angry when NY newsday printed that crap about the racial remarks, because it was coming from liars and unconfirmed, and served only to have her mom defend her daughter. The only purpose, in my mind, for figuring out how intoxicated she was, is to retrace her steps and recreate all that was going on that evening.

May Imette and family get the justice they deserve.

[mocity]

Regardless of all that..........I would dare to say that many of us here at Websleuths have overserved ourselves on many occasions and actly differently then we do on a day to day basis. It is neither here nor there to try to figure out just how drunk she was or wasn't. Littlejohn is a MONSTER and no matter how much she had drank or not drank he would do whatever it is he wanted to do to her.

[docwho3]

. . . I also felt quite angry when NY newsday printed that crap about the racial remarks, because it was coming from liars and unconfirmed, and served only to have her mom defend her daughter. . . It surely does sound like a classic case of "trash the victem" which thing perps often do and it was unfortunate that the news reports played it up but, in my opinion, because it is such a transparent attempt at a smear it also served to make reasonable people see that something is probably not right with those making such a statement.

. . . The only purpose, in my mind, for figuring out how intoxicated she was, is to retrace her steps and recreate all that was going on that evening.

May Imette and family get the justice they deserve. I cannot think of a good reason to worry about how drunk a murder victem was because drunk or sober no one has the right to murder anyone. There can be no reasonable claim of self defense with the size difference between the suspect and the victem so it won't play for anyone to say she got violent with him and so he had to protect himself by kidnapping her and torturing her for hours and then it was necessary to kill her to save himself from the mean racist drunk lady.

[newtv]

actually I think txsvicki was saying the same thng u are insomniac-if u follow the thread-we were saying exactly this-it was based on someone saying that it might be because her so called drunkenness gave him the opportunity-but I said that he would have done it no matter-and we dont even know if she was drunk..he preyed on her-its that simple.

If she was drunk so be it-but he would have preyed on her if she was completely sober-thats the nature of the animal he is..
So I think you are not reading the previous posts and mixing up txsvicki's opinion with something else-she agrees with u as do i as does everyone.

[Verity]

I haven't been following this as closely as most of you here, so maybe I missed something, but where are the toxicology results to prove she was drunk? I'm not taking the bar owner's word for it; they have their own agenda.

If it's proved she was drunk, (and i don't mean just over the drink driving limit), what sorrows was she drowning? Or was she forced to drink more after she left the bar? Young women do not go to bars to drink heavily all by themselves without a reason, especially ones with high iQ points who have a purpose in life.

[indigomood]

I haven't been following this as closely as most of you here, so maybe I missed something, but where are the toxicology results to prove she was drunk? I'm not taking the bar owner's word for it; they have their own agenda.

If it's proved she was drunk, (and i don't mean just over the drink driving limit), what sorrows was she drowning? Or was she forced to drink more after she left the bar? Young women do not go to bars to drink heavily all by themselves without a reason, especially ones with high iQ points who have a purpose in life.
good point Verity... toxicology reports have not been released. Early media like the following article state her heavily intoxicated but these have not been confirmed to the best of my knowledge...

Grisly slaying of Hub native stuns NY cops (http://news.bostonherald.com/stGuillenMurder/view.bg?articleid=128345&format=&page=1)
"A medical examiner reported the cause of death was strangulation. A blood test showed St. Guillen was heavily intoxicated when she died, the source said".

[mic730]

I haven't been following this as closely as most of you here, so maybe I missed something, but where are the toxicology results to prove she was drunk? I'm not taking the bar owner's word for it; they have their own agenda.

If it's proved she was drunk, (and i don't mean just over the drink driving limit), what sorrows was she drowning? Or was she forced to drink more after she left the bar? Young women do not go to bars to drink heavily all by themselves without a reason, especially ones with high iQ points who have a purpose in life.


In my experience in life sometimes young women go to bars and drink to have a good time. Nothing more to it that that and IQ has nothing to do with it. It does not mean one is drowning sorrows but having a good time and over indulging occasionally with or without friends. It is 2006 and happy adjusted women with high IQ's go to bars by themselves.

[Mygirlsadie]

Yes that is right. She was probably just in the partying mood and wanting to have a good time that night. Typical normal 25 year old behavior. Single in college living in the big city which she loved...she was just happy and wanting to go out and enjoy herself.. poor girl :(


In my experience in life sometimes young women go to bars and drink to have a good time. Nothing more to it that that and IQ has nothing to do with it. It does not mean one is drowning sorrows but having a good time and over indulging occasionally with or without friends. It is 2006 and happy adjusted women with high IQ's go to bars by themselves.

[txsvicki]

good point Verity... toxicology reports have not been released. Early media like the following article state her heavily intoxicated but these have not been confirmed to the best of my knowledge...

Grisly slaying of Hub native stuns NY cops (http://news.bostonherald.com/stGuillenMurder/view.bg?articleid=128345&format=&page=1)
"A medical examiner reported the cause of death was strangulation. A blood test showed St. Guillen was heavily intoxicated when she died, the source said".


This doesn't make sense. If Imette were murdered shortly before being dumped on the side of the road that evening, then how was she still heavily intoxicated if she left the bar at about 4am. I don't believe all these sources and media reports.

[docwho3]

This doesn't make sense. If Imette were murdered shortly before being dumped on the side of the road that evening, then how was she still heavily intoxicated if she left the bar at about 4am. I don't believe all these sources and media reports.I suppose he could have forced drink on her during his bizarre torture time. Still, like you, I am puzzled.

[txsvicki]

I just wanted to point out here, that what you've said about the type of person who gets drunk and/or gets into a barroom brawl is incorrect and uninformed. While I agree that the Dorrians may have cooked up a CYA story about the condition she was in, her getting a masters degree, etc has nothing to do with why I would think that.

To make this perfectly clear, I will start by saying that I have no idea whether she was drunk, intoxicated, or whatever, I wasn't there and neither were you, and media reports are inconsistent. I also want to make clear before adding my next point, I have no reason to believe or conclude she's an alcoholic. That's not my point here. But, I would like to say, in regards to misnomers about the types of people who get drunk and into fights, that alcoholics (who often fall into that catergory) come from all walks of life and professions, and some manage to get masters degrees and are good samaritins. Go to an AA meeting and you'll see that for yourself, take it one step further and check out one for PROFESSIONALS. There are also people who get into fights with the smallest amounts of alcohol because their bodies don't metabolize it well, this is sometimes called pathological intoxication. And there are some people who just have low tolerances to alcohol has a much stronger effect on them. Nothing at all to do with their "moral character" or personality.

I went on this rant, because I know many fine people who have had issues with alcohol and have struggled with their self-esteem and image because of the misconceptions people have of people who drink. This is especially true for women. One such person was my aunt, who eventually died from a pill addiction years after her alcoholism progressed. She was the mom of 3 kids, all now grown, a music teacher, singer, pta mom, etc. She did it all while she was struggling with a disease that eventually took her life.

What happened to Imette was way beyond any type of comprehension, and I could care less what she did or said, because what happened to her was unfathomable. I also felt quite angry when NY newsday printed that crap about the racial remarks, because it was coming from liars and unconfirmed, and served only to have her mom defend her daughter. The only purpose, in my mind, for figuring out how intoxicated she was, is to retrace her steps and recreate all that was going on that evening.

May Imette and family get the justice they deserve.


Well most violent brawling drunks that I have ever known are not female and have a problem with even holding down a job much less graduating with honors and a master's degree in criminal justice right on time. Most have had DUI's, assault charges, or PI's. This is not even mentioning the volunteer work with rape victims. Littlejohn would have grabbed her whether she'd had one drink all night long, none, or ten. Drinking ,brawling ,being ugly, and getting thrown out of bars do not fit with what has been said about Imette by her friends and family and even background checks that might have had to be done in some of her work. It's the brawling and scuffling with littlejohn over being told to leave part of the story that I have a big problem with. Of course everyone knows that lots of students drink and get drunk at times. Of course everyone knows that there are some professional people who are alcoholics and drug addicts. I was talking about Imette and not the rest of the world's population and alcoholism.

[dark_shadows]

Thank you strach for you