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Dexter Mills
10-10-2005, 09:09 PM
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/54ufmo.html (http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/54ufmo.html)

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/6865/jd.html

On the morning of February 28, 1983, two men were rummaging through the basement of an abandoned apartment building at 5635 Clemens Avenue in St. Louis. They made a gruesome discovery, the body of a young black girl, between 8-11 years old. Her hands had been tied behind her and she was sexually assaulted and then strangled. After death, she was decapitated with a long, heavy knife. Her head was never discovered, and she remains unidentified to this day.

This case has always disturbed me. You'd think, someone that young, someone somewhere would be missing them, or know who they are.

*02
10-11-2005, 01:13 PM
I read this case on DOE a couple of weeks ago, how disturbing it is.

I think the one thing that bothers me most about all of the unidentified cases is that someone has to know who these people are. How do people never get identified? Mind boggling.

anthrobones
03-29-2006, 07:27 PM
It's been 23 years since this child was murdered.

http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/54ufmo.html

Unidentified Black Female Child Located on February 28, 1983 in St. Louis, Missouri
<LI>Cause of death was homicide; the victim was strangled.



Vital Statistics


Estimated age: 8 - 11 years old (DOB circa 1972-75).
Approximate Height and Weight: 4'10"; 70 lbs.
Distinguishing Characteristics: She was well-nourished. She had no scars, deformities or irregularities. Medium complexion.
Clothing: She was wearing a yellow v-necked sweater and 2 coats of red fingernail polish.
Other: DNA available

Case History
The victim was located in a vacant apartment building on Clemens Avenue in St. Louis, Missouri on February 28, 1983. Two men who were in the basement of the building discovered the young girl. She was lying face-down in the furnace room with her hands tied behind her back with red and white nylon rope. The victim had been sexually assaulted prior to being strangled, which was the cause of her death.
The victim's head had been removed with a large-bladed knife after her death. Her head has never been discovered. She had been killed elsewhere and brought to the vacant building after her death.
There were no signs of previous abuse on the victim's body. There was no specific features that would give clues as to her identity.
The St. Louis authorities have conducted extensive investigations into the victim's identity since 1983 and have received no clear leads. Her murderer(s) remain unknown, although several suspects have been under investigation. No arrests have been made in the case.
The FBI agency that documents and studies unsolved murders reported this is the only decapitation in the country involving someone so young (1993). Authorities believe she was probably from out of state as they checked school records around Missouri very thoroughly. They conducted a nationwide search, including running ads in every black newspaper and magazine in the country and corresponded with every state police agency.

anthrobones
03-29-2006, 07:54 PM
Link to website: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/6865/jd.html

Sunday, March 3, 1991

Section: NEWS

</FONT>
UNSOLVED CHILD KILLING HAUNTS POLICE
By Bill Bryan Of the Post-Dispatch Staff






It's been eight years since one of the most baffling cases in the annals of the St. Louis Police Department began, and the mystery remains.

On that cold, crisp, clear day of Feb. 28, 1983, two men looking for a piece of metal to rig a broken drive train on their car made a grisly discovery. While rummaging through a vacant apartment house at 5635 Clemens Avenue in the Cabanne neighborhood, they found the body of a girl on the boiler room floor.


The body was clad only in a dirty yellow sweater with the hands bound behind the back with a red and white nylon rope. The head was missing.

An autopsy disclosed that the girl, who was black, was 8 to 11 years old and had been sexually assaulted. She had been killed elsewhere.

After eight years and countless hours of detective work, police still don't know the identity of the victim, much less who may have killed her.

''I don't suppose I'll ever forget that case,'' said Chief of Detectives Leroy J. Adkins, who was the commander of the homicide squad when the case began.

''It still bothers me,'' said Adkins. ''I guess I'm perplexed more than anything else because we've never identified her after all these years.

''Here you have a child, 8, 9, 10 years old and there's no relatives, parents, neighbors, schoolmates or friends who have reported her missing. Nobody has come forward to offer any information about her.

''What is most distressing is how a child that age can't belong to anybody.''

Adkins called the investigation ''one of most extensive, thorough, painstaking investigations in the history of the department.''

Homicide Sgt. Joe Burgoon has been the primary investigator in the case. He points to a file cabinet stuffed with information such as leads, lists, computer printouts of missing children and stacks of school rosters.

''We've even got information from psychics in there,'' he said.

In 1986, Burgoon sent a report to the FBI Academy in Quantico, Va., which runs a special program that analyzes unsolved killings throughout the country.

''The FBI could find nothing to compare to our case anywhere in the United States,'' Burgoon said. ''It's amazing.''

But Burgoon has not given up hope. ''Right now, I'm looking at an abduction case from Chicago,'' he said. ''A 7 1/2-year-old girl was reported abducted in January 1980, and she's never been found.''

Another homicide sergeant thinks that a man on death row in Missouri may be the killer of the girl, and the detective plans to question the man soon.

Dr. Mary Case, the medical examiner for St. Louis County and St. Charles County, remembers the ''Jane Doe'' case well because she was deputy chief medical examiner for St. Louis at the time.

''I remember there were more hours spent on that case than any other I can recall,'' she said.

''In this part of the country, for a child to be murdered like that and not identified is just so unbelievable.''

Adkins says, ''There are so many theories. The girl lived a secluded life. Her mother, or parents, were involved in the murder. The possibilities go on and on.

''She probably was from out of the state, though,'' he said. ''We checked school records around here very, very thoroughly.

''We conducted a nationwide search,'' Adkins said. ''We ran ads in every black newspaper and magazine in the country and corresponded with every state police agency.

''Still nothing. It's frustrating.''
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Friday, June 5, 1992

Section: NEWS

</FONT>
SKULL MAY BE LINKED TO UNSOLVED MURDER
By Bill Bryan Of the Post-Dispatch Staff






The recovery of a human skull has authorities optimistic that they may have the first solid clue in one of St. Louis' most baffling unsolved murders - the decapitation of an unknown girl nine years ago.

''Obviously, we're very interested in this skull,'' said Dr. Mary Case, the St. Louis County Medical Examiner. Her office has custody of the skull, which was obtained by a Charlack police lieutenant on May 14 from a man he had stopped to question on St. Charles Rock Road, near the Interstate I-170.


''The skull is definitely that of a child, but at this time we don't know the sex or race,'' Case said. ''DNA testing will be able to tell us if the skull belongs to the body of the murder victim.''

If the skull and body are matched, Homicide Sgt. Joe Burgoon said police will ''backtrack the origin of the skull and hopefully get her identified.''

He said discoveries of human skulls - particularly those of children - are rare and have piqued police curiosity.

Burgoon has been the primary investigator on the ''Jane Doe'' case for the last several years.

''It's too early to get too excited, but I'm encouraged,'' he said. ''It's the best lead we've got thus far.''

The DNA tests could take several weeks to complete, Case said.

Meanwhile, authorities plan to have archaeologists examine the skull to determine its age. The owner of the skull says it is 1,100 years old.

The skull came to light May 14, when Charlack Lt. Tony Umbertino saw a man in a storage rental shed on St. Charles Rock Road and questioned him to see if he belonged there.

The man was later identified as Danny L. Davis, 33, of Pagedale.

''As I was talking to him, I noticed a couple of animal skulls in the shed,'' Umbertino said. ''One was a rat's skull with a German Army helmet on it.

''I asked him about the skulls, and he told me he was a 'skull freak' and had a human skull as well,'' Umbertino said. ''He had it right there inside a Tide Bleach box. It was wrapped with electrical tape.''

Umbertino confiscated the skull and turned it over to Case's office.

In an interview, Davis said he bought the skull for $35 in 1977 or 1978 at a souvenir-gift shop on Lindbergh Boulevard near Northwest Plaza shopping center. The shop has since gone out of business, he said.

''I collect skulls,'' Davis said. ''I have skulls of cows, birds and deer, but this was the only real human one I had.''

Davis said a tag that came with the skull claimed it to be authentic and 1,100 years old. ''The skull was that of a Navajo Indian woman, 22 years old, from New Mexico,'' Davis said.

''She had been killed by a blow from a tomahawk at the base of the skull.''

Davis said that shortly after buying the skull, he took it to a museum. ''They told me it was a little over 1,000 years old, and they wanted me to donate it to them,'' he said.

''But I wasn't about to give it to them. This was my pride and joy. It was the only real one I had. A lot of folks think I'm weird, but I'm fascinated with the way bones are put together,'' Davis said.

Police plan to question Davis again if the skull is matched to the body.

The murder victim's body was discovered Feb. 28, 1983, by two men who were rummaging around in the basement of a vacant apartment building at 5635 Clemens Avenue.

Despite thousands of hours of investigation, police could never identify the body, let alone solve the murder.


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anthrobones
03-29-2006, 07:56 PM
Link: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/6865/jd.html

Tuesday, March 2, 1993

Section: NEWS

</FONT>
HEADLESS GIRL STILL NAMELESS AFTER 10 YEARS
By Bill Bryan
Of the Post-Dispatch Staff






She was about 11 years old when someone sexually attacked her and then cut off her head in what police say is the only case of its kind in a country that has grown used to ghastly crimes.

Ten years later, St. Louis police are no closer to learning the identity of the child they know only as Jane Doe - or to finding her killer.


Sunday marked the 10th anniversary of the discovery of the body in the basement of a vacant building in the Cabanne neighborhood.

"It's certainly bizarre," said St. Louis Homicide Sgt. Joe Burgoon, who has been the main investigator for several years.

The FBI agency that documents and studies unsolved murders reported this is the only decapitation in the country involving someone so young, Burgoon said.

A remote lead was dispelled last week when the Armed Forces Medical Examiner's Office in Washington reported that a skull recovered in May in St. Louis County was not the murder victim's.

"It was a long shot but worth pursuing," said Dr. Mary Case, the St. Louis County medical examiner, who had sent the skull to Washington.

Dr. William Rodriguez, a forensic anthropologist, determined that it was too old to be the girl's skull.

A Charlack police officer got the skull from a man he had questioned at a storage shed on St. Charles Rock Road, near Interstate 170.

The man, Danny L. Davis, 34, of Pagedale, said he bought the skull for $35 in the late 1970s at a souvenir-gift shop on Lindbergh Boulevard near Northwest Plaza shopping center.

Davis said he was told the skull was that of a young Indian woman who had been killed by a tomahawk.

The body of the girl, who was black, was found Feb. 28, 1983 by two men rummaging in the basement of a vacant apartment building at 5635 Clemens Avenue. The body was clad only in a dirty yellow sweater; the hands were tied in back with a red and white nylon rope.

Police determined that the girl had been killed elsewhere.

"Back then, I believed this would be an easy case to crack," Burgoon recalled. "We'd find out who the girl was, and that would lead us to the killer."

That never happened.

Burgoon hasn't given up hope.

"There's somebody out there who knows who this little girl was."
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Thursday, March 3, 1994

Section: NEWS

</FONT>
CARING DETECTIVE STILL GRIEVES FOR UNCLAIMED CHILD
By Christine Bertelson






THE HEADLESS body of Jane Doe haunts Leroy Adkins.

Eleven years ago, Adkins was the cop in charge of investigating the murder, rape and decapitation of an unidentified child. Every year about this time, Adkins relives the agony of the unsolved case. This year, the recent murders of Cassidy Senter and Angie Housman have made the pain that much harder to bear.


"Each year I feel that this case will finally be solved," Adkins said. "Each year I am disappointed in myself and in mankind. I will never forget, never rest, never be at peace with myself until this case is solved."

Adkins, 62, retired from the St. Louis Police Department in 1992. He now is chief of security at Lambert Field. In 34 years of police work, no case ever touched him as much as Jane Doe's.

It was Feb. 28, 1983, when Adkins - then commander of the city's homicide division - got the call for a dead body in the basement of an abandoned building at 5635 Clemens Avenue. Amid filth and debris, two men scavenging for copper had stumbled on the body of a girl about 9 years old. She had been murdered, raped and decapitated. Her hands were tied behind her back with a red-and-white nylon rope. She was wearing only a dirty yellow orlon sweater with the label cut out. She had two layers of red nail polish on her fingernails.

The girl had medium-to-dark skin, was about 5 feet 4 inches and weighed about 70 pounds. Her body showed no signs of previous abuse - no bruises, scars or broken bones, and she appeared to be well-nourished. Because there was no blood at the scene, police suspect Jane Doe was murdered and decapitated somewhere else and dumped into the basement of the building.

Adkins and his detectives spent thousands of hours on the case. Letters sent to every state police agency in the nation turned up nothing. City school records, woefully disorganized, yielded no clues to her identity. Adkins pleaded with the public to come forward with any scrap of information that would help identify the little girl.

No one did.

The child's body lay in the city morgue for several months, drawing a crowd of gawkers like some ghoulish carnival attraction. One day, a state legislator, with an entourage of people claiming to have psychic powers, showed up and demanded to see the body.

Jane Doe was finally buried Dec. 2, 1983, in a pauper's grave on the southern side of Washington Park Cemetery. Four mud-covered gravediggers carried her small, white casket adorned with a single spray of pink, white and yellow flowers. The ceremony lasted five minutes. Months later, a group of schoolchildren raised money to buy Jane Doe a tombstone.

Adkins went to the funeral, hoping that a friend or relative of Jane Doe might show up.

No one did.

Even though Adkins never wants to forget Jane Doe, he never visited the grave again. "I don't think I could bring myself to do it," Adkins said. "I get chills just thinking about it."

Over the years, an occasional lead revives the case. Several weeks after the murder, someone wrote a letter to the police, naming the supposed killer. Last year, police recovered a human skull purchased in a souvenir shop near Northwest Plaza. A forensic anthropologist determined the female skull was too old to be that of Jane Doe.

Police are now checking the life history of Samuel Ivery, a 35-year-old man sentenced to death for beheading a woman in Mobile, Ala. Ivery is a suspect in the 1992 beheadings of two women in East St. Louis. Between stints in mental hospitals, might Ivery have been in St. Louis at the time of Jane Doe's murder? For the moment, it's just a theory.

For 11 years, Adkins has had recurring nightmares about Jane Doe. In the dreams, he is standing in the cold basement at 5635 Clemens, looking at the body. Like the meticulous cop he was, Adkins is searching for clues, trying not to overlook anything. But there is something he misses - the tiny detail that could crack the case. He wakes up in a cold sweat. Now and then, Adkins will see something in a magazine - mention of a missing black child about the same age Jane Doe would be today - and mail it to Sgt. Joe Burgoon. Burgoon, one of the detectives originally assigned to the Jane Doe case, is still working on it. Last weekend, Burgoon teletyped a description of Jane Doe's body to every police department in the country. Maybe somebody, somewhere, knows something.

"The case is never closed," Burgoon said.

It is not the brutality of the crime that troubles Adkins after all this time; he has seen plenty of brutal murders. What bothered him then, bothers him still, is the thought of a child no one would come forward to claim.

"If we just knew who she was, I think it would be a burden lifted from my shoulders," Adkins said. "Where is the mother? Where is the father? Where are her brothers or sisters? Where are her relatives? Where are her playmates, friends or classmates? Where are her neighbors, her teachers? Where are the people who knew and cared for her? It's almost as if she didn't exist."

Almost.
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Paradise
03-29-2006, 08:57 PM
This is one of those cases that has bothered me for a long time. I can't believe that no one has come forward yet. This little girl had to have had a family.

Richard
03-30-2006, 08:02 AM
Before Ridgeway was captured, there was some discussion on these boards about this little girl possibly being a BTK victim. That may have been ruled out by now.

------------------
Unidentified African-American Female Child

Located on February 28, 1983 in St. Louis, Missouri
Cause of death was homicide; the victim was strangled.

Vital Statistics
Estimated age: 8 - 11 years old (DOB circa 1972-75).
Approximate Height and Weight: 4'10"; 70 lbs.
Distinguishing Characteristics: She was well-nourished. She had no scars, deformities or irregularities. Medium complexion.
Clothing: She was wearing a yellow v-necked sweater and 2 coats of red fingernail polish.

Case History
The victim was located in a vacant apartment building on Clemens Avenue in St. Louis, Missouri on February 28, 1983. Two men who were in the basement of the building discovered the young girl. She was lying face-down in the furnace room with her hands tied behind her back with red and white nylon rope. The victim had been sexually assaulted prior to being strangled, which was the cause of her death.
The victim's head had been removed with a large-bladed knife after her death. Her head has never been discovered. She had been killed elsewhere and brought to the vacant building after her death.
There were no signs of previous abuse on the victim's body. There was no specific features that would give clues as to her identity.
The St. Louis authorities have conducted extensive investigations into the victim's identity since 1983 and have received no clear leads. Her murderer(s) remain unknown, although several suspects have been under investigation. No arrests have been made in the case.

If you have any information concerning this young girl's identity or the circumstances surrounding her homicide, please contact: St. Louis Police Department, Detective Thomas Carroll 314-444-5371

NCIC Number: U-470002710
The Doe Network: Case File 54UFMO

gardenmom
03-30-2006, 11:05 AM
Did they ever find out if the skull belonged to the child?

lymom3
03-30-2006, 11:49 AM
It says in there that the skull was too old to be hers.

Stella
03-30-2006, 10:08 PM
The age and race would be consistent with Nicole Betterson. Hmm...

Hollow
03-30-2006, 10:15 PM
I also seen a case on newspaperarchives.com about a black woman who was looking for her child that had been missing for years, her ex had taken her and then was later found not to have posession of her, I think he actually went to jail for kidnapping, I'll have to see if I can dig it up again. There was a big picture of her holding the child's photo, I don't know what year that was or where it was, but maybe if anyone has archives they can help me look.

lindsay
03-31-2006, 03:57 PM
Has anyone ever looked at Toya Hill for the unidentified child?

anthrobones
03-31-2006, 05:38 PM
I googled "Nicole Betterson"; didn't come up with anything there.

Info for Toya Hill is below.

http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/179dfmd.html


Toya Hill
Missing since March 24, 1982 from Baltimore, Maryland.
Classification: Non-Family Abduction



Vital Statistics Date Of Birth: August 24, 1973
Age at Time of Disappearance: 9 years old
Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 4'0; 80 pounds
Distinguishing Characteristics: Black female. Black hair; brown eyes. Hill wears eyeglasses.
<LI>Other: DNA available

Circumstances of Disappearance
Hill left her home at 206 South Spring Court, Baltimore, Maryland, on March 24, 1982 to walk to a nearby store. She never arrived at the business and has never been seen again. Foul play is suspected.

spikydragon
03-31-2006, 06:21 PM
I googled "Nicole Betterson"; didn't come up with anything there.


It's "Nikole Betterson"; the thread is right here http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37934 :)

anthrobones
01-29-2007, 06:49 PM
Bumping up her post

Lisahas2cats
01-29-2007, 07:27 PM
That poor baby :(. How, how, HOW can a child go unclaimed?

HesterMofet
02-03-2007, 04:15 PM
Because the parent or whomever was keping her was or knew the killer. The fact that her head was never found points to someone who was trying to hide her identity. Why do that unless she can be traced back to the killer? (Aside from just a straight up psychopathic weirdo, which could also be the case.) But in that case, someone would have been looking for her, which points to a child who was known by her killer.

This case has bothered me for years. When all the hoopla was going on about Jon Benet, this little girl was always in my mind because to me her case deserved to be publicized just as much.

There was, or is a website dedicated to her memory, but I cannot find it right now. If some does, please post the URL. Thanks.

azure
02-03-2007, 07:15 PM
I agree that it was probably a parent who killed her. If the parents had a transient or troubled lifestyle, it would be easy for them to move before or after they killed the girl so nobody would ask questions. The extended family probably lost touch with the parents long before the child was killed, so they don't even know she's missing.

I think in this case it would be easier to try to find the killer first, then the identity of the child.

But again, just my :twocents:.

Kelly

anthrobones
02-03-2007, 11:32 PM
The only website that I know of for this child,other than Doe Network:

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/6865/jd.html

Cubby
12-20-2007, 03:49 PM
Why is no one missing this girl? I wish someone could do the oxygen analysis for this sweet baby girl like was done for the Dupage County doe.

Bumping for the little girl found with the yellow shirt.

Merry Christmas sweet baby girl. You are not forgotten.

Why isn't this case listed in the unidentified thread? Mods?

Richard
12-20-2007, 08:06 PM
...
Why isn't this case listed in the unidentified thread? Mods?

I am not a Websleuths Moderator, but to answer your question, there is no reason why she should not be listed there as well as in the Cold Case section. I am not certain when the unidentified section was started - possibly after the Cold Case section had already been going for a while.

It simply comes down to someone taking an interest in the case and posting it there. Moderators sometimes start threads and post messages, but the bulk of postings are from persons like yourself - they take an interest, take the time, and type it up.

If you decide to start a thread about this little girl on another board, you should include a "Link" to this thread, so that visitors can go here to read other postings on the same case.

anthrobones
12-20-2007, 09:59 PM
Hi there. I started this thread before the Unidentified board was created. If the mod's would like to move it there, that is perfectly fine with me.

forthelost
01-20-2008, 03:56 PM
I also seen a case on newspaperarchives.com about a black woman who was looking for her child that had been missing for years, her ex had taken her and then was later found not to have posession of her, I think he actually went to jail for kidnapping, I'll have to see if I can dig it up again. There was a big picture of her holding the child's photo, I don't know what year that was or where it was, but maybe if anyone has archives they can help me look.

That's Deborah Saunders.

http://www.forthelost.org/jahi/jahi3.html

She was last seen in 1984, so it can't be her.

Toya Hill, Shaunda Green, Shelia Quinn, and Kelly Staples are all rule outs by DNA. They never tested Yolanda Williams, probably because both her parents are dead.

anthrobones
06-19-2008, 09:20 PM
Bumping her up

anthrobones
06-19-2008, 09:22 PM
They never tested Yolanda Williams, probably because both her parents are dead.


So, does she not have any living relatives at all?

thefragile7393
06-20-2008, 04:50 PM
I think she could be from the area still....just maybe not put into school or something. Anything is possible though, from the sounds of it.

forthelost
06-22-2008, 10:29 PM
So, does she not have any living relatives at all?

I'm pretty sure she has none. At least LE says there is no one they know of.

newshound81
06-24-2008, 08:28 AM
I agree that it was probably a parent who killed her. If the parents had a transient or troubled lifestyle, it would be easy for them to move before or after they killed the girl so nobody would ask questions. The extended family probably lost touch with the parents long before the child was killed, so they don't even know she's missing.

I think in this case it would be easier to try to find the killer first, then the identity of the child.

But again, just my :twocents:.

Kelly
But it says in the description that the child was "well-nourished" and had no previous signs of abuse. To me, that would lessen the possibility of it being her parents. I do think it's possible for parents to snap and kill their kids even if they're well-cared for, but not in such a brutal way and with a sexual assault involved. I think she was abducted by a stranger.

newshound81
06-24-2008, 08:46 AM
I found this girl on the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children site: http://www.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/PubCaseSearchServlet?act=viewChildDetail&caseNum=857497&orgPrefix=NCMC&seqNum=1&caseLang=en_US&searchLang=en_US

On Charley Project, though, it says she was 5'7 and 115 lbs. She doesn't look like she'd be that big from her picture. She was about 12, but she went missing in late February of 1983, when the unidentified child was found.

anthrobones
06-24-2008, 10:01 AM
I had thought of Sharuan as a possible match too, but wasn't sure.

Anyone else?

hmg
06-24-2008, 11:03 AM
But it says in the description that the child was "well-nourished" and had no previous signs of abuse. To me, that would lessen the possibility of it being her parents. I do think it's possible for parents to snap and kill their kids even if they're well-cared for, but not in such a brutal way and with a sexual assault involved. I think she was abducted by a stranger.

Perhaps another family member or a stepparent is a possibility? In that case it would be possible that she was well cared for by her family/ mom but someone else was abusing her. That would still give the parents motive not to claim her.

Is it possible her family could be immigrants who came here illegally? There was a case in my state where no one has claimed to be related to an UID because police think she was an illegal immigrant.

newshound81
06-24-2008, 11:46 AM
Perhaps another family member or a stepparent is a possibility? In that case it would be possible that she was well cared for by her family/ mom but someone else was abusing her. That would still give the parents motive not to claim her.

Is it possible her family could be immigrants who came here illegally? There was a case in my state where no one has claimed to be related to an UID because police think she was an illegal immigrant.
That is a good point. We do hear of cases all the time where a step-parent or the parent's spouse hurt or killed a child. I think your immigrant idea is good also. There seems to be only four or five black girls who match this girl's description who were reported abducted between 1981 and when she was found in 1983.

forthelost
06-25-2008, 05:42 PM
I had thought of Sharuan as a possible match too, but wasn't sure.

Anyone else?

DNA rule-out.

Kiki
06-25-2008, 08:38 PM
Could she be a foster child? If she was healthy and well nourished she could have been recently moved from a good home to an abusive one where she met her murderer. Naturally her killer or killlers would not report her missing. If that is true we may never know her name unless members of her biological family come looking for her.

hmg
06-25-2008, 09:32 PM
Could she be a foster child? If she was healthy and well nourished she could have been recently moved from a good home to an abusive one where she met her murderer. Naturally her killer or killlers would not report her missing. If that is true we may never know her name unless members of her biological family come looking for her.

I think that's another good theory. I wonder if they ever looked into if that was a possibility? I like to think that children in foster homes are tracked well but we all know that is not always the case.

newshound81
06-26-2008, 10:01 AM
It doesn't say how long they think the body was there for. Even if it had been there a while, maybe the smells would have been overpowered by all of the other filth and debris there. I point that out because maybe the police need to check older missing person cases. Maybe this was a child who was abducted years before she was found and simply held and abused until they decided to kill her. Unlikely, though.

I wonder how long the building had been abandoned for and if they checked on previous owners, tenants. Her being put there makes me think the person(s) who killed her was familiar with the area.

It's all so strange. They think she was from out of state and killed elsewhere. I wonder how she was taken into the area, if there was ever a suspicious car or something. I had never heard of this case before the other day, and I have so many questions.

newshound81
06-26-2008, 11:07 AM
The height is off and she looks more Hispanic than black, but maybe this one:

http://www.icmec.org/missingkids/servlet/PubCaseSearchServlet?act=viewChildDetail&caseNum=601814&orgPrefix=NCMC&seqNum=1&caseLang=en_US&searchLang=en_X1

I thought these could be possiblities from out of the country:

http://www.icmec.org/missingkids/servlet/PubCaseSearchServlet?act=viewChildDetail&caseNum=000007&orgPrefix=NCMI&seqNum=3&caseLang=en_US&searchLang=en_X1

http://www.icmec.org/missingkids/servlet/PubCaseSearchServlet?act=viewChildDetail&caseNum=000007&orgPrefix=NCMI&seqNum=2&caseLang=en_US&searchLang=en_X1

not_my_kids
07-02-2008, 07:26 AM
Two points on this case: The detective in charge believes that she was murdered by family. His name is Detective Carroll and is a great guy, no one should ever be afraid to contact him. Also in case anyone was wondering and it has not been mentioned, the rope used to tie her hands was the type normally used on boats and the shirt that she was wearing has been lost. It was mailed to a psychic show on TV and was supposedly lost in the mail on the way back. Not that there was much of anything left that they could have gotten off it but it still makes me mad.

newshound81
07-02-2008, 09:51 AM
Two points on this case: The detective in charge believes that she was murdered by family. His name is Detective Carroll and is a great guy, no one should ever be afraid to contact him. Also in case anyone was wondering and it has not been mentioned, the rope used to tie her hands was the type normally used on boats and the shirt that she was wearing has been lost. It was mailed to a psychic show on TV and was supposedly lost in the mail on the way back. Not that there was much of anything left that they could have gotten off it but it still makes me mad.
Wow, I just posted about this case on the Jeanine Nicario thread. Then I saw there was movement on this one. That's interesting info--thank you!

Cubby
01-01-2009, 03:09 AM
Bumping..

thinking of you again sweethheart. Hoping to find your name.

wondering if there are any forensics which could be tested now in 2009 to bring your name back to you.

You are not and will never be forgotten. Always in my mind sweetheart.

Cubby
01-01-2009, 03:15 AM
I am not a Websleuths Moderator, but to answer your question, there is no reason why she should not be listed there as well as in the Cold Case section. I am not certain when the unidentified section was started - possibly after the Cold Case section had already been going for a while.

It simply comes down to someone taking an interest in the case and posting it there. Moderators sometimes start threads and post messages, but the bulk of postings are from persons like yourself - they take an interest, take the time, and type it up.

If you decide to start a thread about this little girl on another board, you should include a "Link" to this thread, so that visitors can go here to read other postings on the same case.


Way way late on replying. The Unidentified section was fairly new to WS when I asked. I'm working on a half broken down computer now and can not copy links... I'm still uncertain as to how many follow both the cold case forum and the unidentified forum. If someone would be so kind to start a thread with this gals info/data in the unidentified forum and link to the discussion here it would be appreciated. It might get more attention being in both forums and with as busy as WS is... there is no way we can expect the mods to bring over cases from both areas.

Thanks!

Cubby

Cubby
01-01-2009, 03:16 AM
I am not a Websleuths Moderator, but to answer your question, there is no reason why she should not be listed there as well as in the Cold Case section. I am not certain when the unidentified section was started - possibly after the Cold Case section had already been going for a while.

It simply comes down to someone taking an interest in the case and posting it there. Moderators sometimes start threads and post messages, but the bulk of postings are from persons like yourself - they take an interest, take the time, and type it up.

If you decide to start a thread about this little girl on another board, you should include a "Link" to this thread, so that visitors can go here to read other postings on the same case.


Way way late on replying. The Unidentified section was fairly new to WS when I asked. I'm working on a half broken down computer now and can not copy links... I'm still uncertain as to how many follow both the cold case forum and the unidentified forum. If someone would be so kind to start a thread with this gals info/data in the unidentified forum and link to the discussion here it would be appreciated. It might get more attention being in both forums and with as busy as WS is... there is no way we can expect the mods to bring over cases from both areas.

Thanks!

Cubby

Stella
01-02-2009, 06:53 PM
Ottis Toole? That's if you believe he killed and beheaded Adam Walsh. Wonder if he was ever questioned or confessed to this girls murder?

not_my_kids
09-25-2009, 09:55 AM
I'm trying to pull up what I remember from talking to the Detective. That way I can say something besides bump.

I know they did check the school records as thoroughly as they could, looking for kids that left school and never requested their records. That was a dead end and due to shoddy record keeping, didn't help a lot. (Not to blame anyone, the public school system is overloaded as it is, let alone without keeping track of kids they don't have anymore.) Later on, after all other roads had been exhausted, they did resort to sending the shirt...one of the last pieces of physical evidence...to a group of TV psychics, and after a good deal of fingerpointing, it was determined that the show didn't mail it back in the manner they were supposed to and it was lost in transit.

Due to the fact that there are no reports to the best of their knowledge, they are betting that either her parents killed her and moved away or her parents are illegal and afraid to report her in the first place.
I was about to call and see if there was anything new, but I thought I'd check here and see if there was anything that I should add to my list of questions.

Angels_Not_Forgotten
09-25-2009, 10:58 AM
This is the first I have heard of this case :( Any additional information you can pass on from the detective should you choose to call would be awesome! Poor little girl :( it's so sad anytime it's a child, but to be unidentified for that long? it breaks my heart :(

Angels_Not_Forgotten
09-25-2009, 11:46 AM
I apologize if this has been discussed here OR elsewhere, but one of the articles from the Jane Doe site that was posted say's

"Another homicide sergeant thinks that a man on death row in Missouri may be the killer of the girl, and the detective plans to question the man soon."

Wonder what came of that and why he thought that?

was this the same person who had the skull bought from the 70's or someone different?

Hurricane
09-25-2009, 02:37 PM
Precious Doe was identified as Erica Green several years ago. Her mother and stepfather were caught in Oklahoma. They are both now in prison.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erica_Green

not_my_kids
09-25-2009, 02:39 PM
Okay, made a call back, first thing I asked is if she was killed by manual or ligature strangulation, no idea, since her head was removed right above the shoulders.

Also, the information that she had been there 5 days could be very incorrect, as she was completely frozen and could have been there for 2 months, just as easily as 5 days.

She is not
Sharuan Cole
Toya Hill
Shaunda Green
Shelia Hill
She is not an unidentified indian girl that someone insisted had to he her.

Nikole Betterson has not been ruled out and neither has Kelly Staples.
Kelly Staples mother has to be found for DNA, since her father is dead and as of now, they can't find mother either.

As far as locating a parent, the men that found her body are clear as far as being a familial relation, as is Curtis Thomas, who lived a few blocks from her and decapitated his wife.

Heads up (no pun intended) if you try looking for her head, there was one in SC that looked good until it was established that it was the whole body, not the head and something got lost in translation. That might not have been corrected yet, so don't let it trip you up.

not_my_kids
09-25-2009, 02:45 PM
She also is not
Tiahease Jackson
Yolanda Williams
Sheila Quinn


As far as the skull that they thought was hers so long ago, it was ID'ed and that girls parents are serving life.

Laura_Bean
09-25-2009, 06:43 PM
The Doe Network:
Case File 834DFCA

Left & Center: Cossey, circa 1979; Right: Age-Progressed to 39 years

Tara Cossett Cossey
Missing since June 6, 1979 from San Pablo, Contra Costa County, California
Classification: Endangered Missing



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Vital Statistics

Date Of Birth: August 24, 1966
Age at Time of Disappearance: 12 years old
Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 4'11; 65 lbs.
Distinguishing Characteristics: Native female. Black hair; brown eyes. Dark complexion.
Clothing: Cutoff Levi's jeans, a blue tank top and thong sandals.
Dentals: Not available


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Circumstances of Disappearance
Cossey was last seen in San Pablo, California on June 6, 1979. She was walking to Pirelli's Liquor Store to purchase a bag of sugar for her mother at the time of her disappearance.
Cossey never returned to her family's residence and has not been heard from again.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Investigators
If you have any information concerning this case, please contact:

Contra Costa County Sheriff's Department
925-646-2441

Agency Case Number: S79-16822

NCMEC #: NCMC895143

NCIC Number: M-030912798
Please refer to this number when contacting any agency with information regarding this case.

Laura_Bean
09-25-2009, 06:45 PM
Never mind just realized she was thought to have been dead only 5 days prior to her body being found

not_my_kids
09-25-2009, 07:18 PM
She could have been dead anywhere from 60 days to 5 days. But she is not Native, she is definitely African American, possibly biracial, but even that is doubtful.
And Tara would have been too old.

Laura_Bean
09-25-2009, 09:17 PM
Okay here was my thing. It says she could have been 11. THis girl was 12. the height is 1 inch off. The weight is 5 pounds off. And it said medium to dark skin. So I thought native would be medium to dark. As I said I was off by the dates but this girl sounds CLOSE. That's all.

Snufamonbobball
09-25-2009, 11:27 PM
I lived in St. Louis for a while and rented apartments in the area she was found. She was found just a few blocks away from our apartments. When I was there (early 2000's), it was considered an area in "transition". I actually rented apartments like these that were revamped.

Whomever killed this child had to be at least a little familiar with the area. This isn't an area where you would wander around looking for a vacant building to dump a body- although until about 10 yrs ago- it was a very high crime area (was still heavy on burglaries and robbery while I was there) and I'm sure there were plenty of vacant buildings to do just that. The address where she was located is in the heart of the city and to find her, you had to really go inside the building. He had to be comfortable in that area. Outsiders would have stuck out like a sore thumb.

The rope used to tie her hands I believe was used primarily to facilitate the body dump. When they tied them around her wrists, they also went over her sweater, but there aren't any coresponding marks on the sweater. The drag marks on the front of her thighs say he just pulled her in and dumped her.

She may not be local, but no way her killer just stumbled into that building.

I hope wherever she is- she knows that she has not been forgotten.

not_my_kids
09-25-2009, 11:54 PM
Okay here was my thing. It says she could have been 11. THis girl was 12. the height is 1 inch off. The weight is 5 pounds off. And it said medium to dark skin. So I thought native would be medium to dark. As I said I was off by the dates but this girl sounds CLOSE. That's all.

But she wouldn't have been 12 when the Doe was 11, she would have been 16 ( I think) when the Doe was 11.
The determination of race was made on skeletal structure as well as skin tone. There is very little doubt on race.

not_my_kids
09-26-2009, 01:15 PM
I lived in St. Louis for a while and rented apartments in the area she was found. She was found just a few blocks away from our apartments. When I was there (early 2000's), it was considered an area in "transition". I actually rented apartments like these that were revamped.

Whomever killed this child had to be at least a little familiar with the area. This isn't an area where you would wander around looking for a vacant building to dump a body- although until about 10 yrs ago- it was a very high crime area (was still heavy on burglaries and robbery while I was there) and I'm sure there were plenty of vacant buildings to do just that. The address where she was located is in the heart of the city and to find her, you had to really go inside the building. He had to be comfortable in that area. Outsiders would have stuck out like a sore thumb.

The rope used to tie her hands I believe was used primarily to facilitate the body dump. When they tied them around her wrists, they also went over her sweater, but there aren't any coresponding marks on the sweater. The drag marks on the front of her thighs say he just pulled her in and dumped her.

She may not be local, but no way her killer just stumbled into that building.

I hope wherever she is- she knows that she has not been forgotten.

Curtis Thomas (who is now a lifer) lived only a couple of blocks from where she was found. He later killed and beheaded his wife. He also worked with kids prior to killing his wife, so he would have known how to approach her. By Google Maps, Thomas' apartment on Waterman was only a mile and a half from Clemens Ave, where her body was found.
I'll put it this way, Thomas has not been named as a suspect, but he has never been completely cleared either. he is not familial relation, that much has been determined.

not_my_kids
09-26-2009, 09:58 PM
GRAPHIC:
There is a crime scene photo here.
I will say it again: VERY GRAPHIC
http://www.missingchildrenministries.org/?page_id=147

teonspaleprincess
09-26-2009, 10:18 PM
Is it just me or does this little girl have her fingernails painted? Not that it would make a difference in the case but that just stuck out to me. I cannot believe this little angel has not been identified. Anyone know the brand of the sweater she was wearing?

WhyaDuck?
09-26-2009, 10:39 PM
Is it just me or does this little girl have her fingernails painted? Not that it would make a difference in the case but that just stuck out to me. I cannot believe this little angel has not been identified. Anyone know the brand of the sweater she was wearing?

The tag was cut off, so it is possible they never identified the maker of the sweater.

WhyaDuck?
09-26-2009, 10:41 PM
Too bad Vernon Brown refused to talk about any other possible crimes before he was executed - he seems very likely, IMO.

http://www.skcentral.com/articles.php?article_id=517

WhyaDuck?
09-26-2009, 10:47 PM
A MySpace page for her:

http://www.myspace.com/476258141

not_my_kids
09-26-2009, 11:09 PM
Yes, she was wearing 2 coats of red nail polish.

not_my_kids
09-26-2009, 11:11 PM
Jovanna crawford, also ruled out. I think I forgot that one.

not_my_kids
09-27-2009, 02:37 AM
I'm beginning to wonder if any of the unidentified black females of child bearing age have been checked for familial relation...maybe she wasn't reported because the only person to report her was also dead.

Also wondering about the tag being removed from her shirt, could indicate that she was a foster child or lived in a group home, an environment where her initials or name would have been written inside or maybe an out of country maker, which would also be telling.

I have also been kicking around the idea that maybe there was an identifying mark on her neck, which would have meant removing her head as well. It just strikes me odd that she was decapitated so far down, almost below the neck. The only thing that I get for that kind of beheading is the effective decapitation of fowl before cooking. So maybe there is something there, with a slaughterhouse connection.

I also have it on good authority, from a boating semi expert, that the rope is or very well could be Pelican brand Tow Rope for water skis or other water toys. Not the type of thing to just be laying around in winter in MO. But that is so far unsubstantiated and only a semi educated guess. I know nothing about rope, so I take it at face value. Pelican was a very popular brand, I was able to gather that much.

teonspaleprincess
09-27-2009, 10:40 AM
I wonder if she was a victim of human trafficking? If she is an immigrant, I am leaning towards Haitian...does anyone know if there is a large Haitian population there? Maybe that would have been a good place for the police to question people?

Laura_Bean
09-27-2009, 11:54 AM
As I said, didn't notice the wrong dates until after I posted. So yes, I do apologize for that mistake. As for Vernon being her killer, one thing I don't get is why he would cut her head off when he didn't do that with even one other victim. It doesn't seem to me that he cared whether or not he was convicted for anything or who knew the victim or what. So why suddenly change his MO and cut off the head of THIS little girl? I don't get that. Not saying it can't be him but I just don't see him cutting off the head of this child.

Snufamonbobball
09-27-2009, 12:53 PM
I'm beginning to wonder if any of the unidentified black females of child bearing age have been checked for familial relation...maybe she wasn't reported because the only person to report her was also dead.

Also wondering about the tag being removed from her shirt, could indicate that she was a foster child or lived in a group home, an environment where her initials or name would have been written inside or maybe an out of country maker, which would also be telling.

I have also been kicking around the idea that maybe there was an identifying mark on her neck, which would have meant removing her head as well. It just strikes me odd that she was decapitated so far down, almost below the neck. The only thing that I get for that kind of beheading is the effective decapitation of fowl before cooking. So maybe there is something there, with a slaughterhouse connection.

I also have it on good authority, from a boating semi expert, that the rope is or very well could be Pelican brand Tow Rope for water skis or other water toys. Not the type of thing to just be laying around in winter in MO. But that is so far unsubstantiated and only a semi educated guess. I know nothing about rope, so I take it at face value. Pelican was a very popular brand, I was able to gather that much.

I agree with your thinking- I thought the manner of her decapitation was unusual too. Taking the whole neck takes a lot more work than just cutting through. Can you ask if this kind of rope is ever used on barges? St. Louis is a major hub for barges, maybe this person picked up the rope off a barge or a tug boat he worked on.

Laura_Bean
09-27-2009, 04:05 PM
Okay guys, I've done a ton of research today. Looking for someone who did this type of thing. After a lot of research I have come up with a serial killer who is now on death row for all he has done.

Ever heard of Douglas Daniel Clark?

http://www.askaserialkiller.com/douglas-daniel-clark/

The link is his own personal website. Yes aparentally some death row inmates have computer access. I sent him a question about this case, just to see what sort of response he will give me. I asked for his help basically flattered him telling him even if he didn't do it, I could really use his opinion on the type of person we are looking for.

A while back he was claiming innocence and throwing his old ex-girl under the bus. Now he seems to openly admitting he has done things. Someone has already asked if there are any cases he did but wasn't linked to and he wrote back, three. THREE cases we know of that have never been linked to him. Now listen to what we KNOW he has done.

Laura_Bean
09-27-2009, 04:15 PM
In 1980, in California, (and because this other case happened in a different state, I think if he did do it, he would not be linked to it because he always worked, as far as we now know, in CA), Douglas and his girlfriend at the time Carol Bundy, prowled the streets of CA. Soon after Douglas and Carol got together, (she had low self esteem due to being an abused child and than recentally running from an abusive husband), their relationship soon became abusive and even criminal.

Carol had come into the relationship with two children. Douglas beat the children. Douglas also had other sexual partners. He would bring home people to have sex with, some as young as eleven years of age. He would make Carol take pictures of them. Than he began telling Carol he wanted to murder girls, and that it was a "fantasy" of his.

In June of 1980, Douglas got his chance. He and Carol lured two young teenage girls into his van and they were repeatedly raped and forced to "perform" on each other. Later that month he lured two prostitutes into the van and raped and murdered both of them. He decapitated one of them and took her head home as some sort of gruesome suvinere and later used the head for "sexul acts".

Laura_Bean
09-27-2009, 04:21 PM
He was dubbed the "Sunset Slayer" because he mostly worked on Sunset Blvd in CA.

His girlfriend got a man to go to the van to have sex with her, and decapitated him after he was killed, afraid someone would remember seeing the two together before he was killed.

In 1983, the girlfriend broke down while at work. She told other nurses that she had killed people and was a bad person. They than called police and she was taken in. While she claimed she had nothing to do with the murders, but that her boyfriend did it all, he claimed the same, saying his girlfriend was the real murderer and he had nothing to do with it. He was sentenced to the death penalty and still sits today on death row.

I think HIS mo fits this crime. Several victims were tied up when found, and many of them had their heads missing... What do you all think?

not_my_kids
09-27-2009, 04:27 PM
I think it's possible.
I can't get the link to work (PC is screwy) but were his victims black or white? Just because serials don't usually cross racial boundaries...although it has been getting more common.

Snufamonbobball
09-27-2009, 05:39 PM
He was dubbed the "Sunset Slayer" because he mostly worked on Sunset Blvd in CA.

His girlfriend got a man to go to the van to have sex with her, and decapitated him after he was killed, afraid someone would remember seeing the two together before he was killed.

In 1983, the girlfriend broke down while at work. She told other nurses that she had killed people and was a bad person. They than called police and she was taken in. While she claimed she had nothing to do with the murders, but that her boyfriend did it all, he claimed the same, saying his girlfriend was the real murderer and he had nothing to do with it. He was sentenced to the death penalty and still sits today on death row.

I think HIS mo fits this crime. Several victims were tied up when found, and many of them had their heads missing... What do you all think?

While you can never depend on a serial killer to do the same thing, I can't think of any Clark/Bundy victims that were left inside buildings. Clark/Bundy usually dumped the bodies in ditches, embankments- but basically out in the open. I also think that Clark/Bundy would have stuck out in that neighborhood. In 1983 the neighborhood she was found in was mostly African American, whomever killed her had to be reasonably sure he wouldn't be seen or noticed (IMHO)- but, you never know- its not a bad idea to check and see where Clark/Bundy were- thinking outside the box has solved cases!

Laura_Bean
09-27-2009, 06:25 PM
All I can think to answer that, is perhaps by than he knew they were on to him. Maybe he figured his girlfriend was close to cracking the information, which she did. Maybe he thought, it was time to be more careful to change things up. I don't know. As to whether his victims were black or white, I can't find anything on the victims, been looking since your last post. Good question though.

Laura_Bean
09-27-2009, 06:28 PM
Oh and the out in the open thing.... On his website he says three cases were never linked to him, when he was asked by someone on his website. Although we can never truly believe a serial killer, I wonder if he is telling the truth. He was specific on the number that they never pinned him down on. I think if he was lying, he would have just simply said yes, or no. Why the number 3? Also I would tend to believe, if the bodies were left in the open, in a ditch or on a road, someone would have found them and linked them because it would be the exact same MO that he had with the other victims. Just a thought

not_my_kids
09-28-2009, 12:22 AM
For serials, the act is inspired by the fantasy. So maybe there was someone that he wanted to shock or a point he wanted to make, which altered the fantasy and altered his dump pattern. Maybe he was ashamed at some part of this particular murder, as some serials are not true sociopaths and can feel shame, and for that reason, his subconscious told him to hide her.

After getting a look at her hands in the crime scene photos, I am definitely ruling out any idea of her being brought in from another country for the purpose of domestic slavery.
Part of my also wants to rule out parental, or at least maternal, involvement. Face down, hands behind her, uncovered below the waist, that's not a parent.
I wonder about the age estimation too. In the pictures, (please no one think I am a sicko, it hurt to look at them, but I had to) it also looked like she was too curvy to be a completely prepubescent child. I think I did a pretty good job of figuring out what was body style and what was bloating, but I don't know for sure. I know that developmental charting and skeletal age can be wrong, and they have done DNA on girls as old as 13, so I think LE might doubt the estimation too.

(Sorry if I ramble, TheraFlu, lots of Theraflu.)

Snufamonbobball
09-28-2009, 01:49 AM
For serials, the act is inspired by the fantasy. So maybe there was someone that he wanted to shock or a point he wanted to make, which altered the fantasy and altered his dump pattern. Maybe he was ashamed at some part of this particular murder, as some serials are not true sociopaths and can feel shame, and for that reason, his subconscious told him to hide her.

After getting a look at her hands in the crime scene photos, I am definitely ruling out any idea of her being brought in from another country for the purpose of domestic slavery.
Part of my also wants to rule out parental, or at least maternal, involvement. Face down, hands behind her, uncovered below the waist, that's not a parent.
I wonder about the age estimation too. In the pictures, (please no one think I am a sicko, it hurt to look at them, but I had to) it also looked like she was too curvy to be a completely prepubescent child. I think I did a pretty good job of figuring out what was body style and what was bloating, but I don't know for sure. I know that developmental charting and dental age can be wrong, and they have done DNA on girls as old as 13, so I think LE might doubt the estimation too.

(Sorry if I ramble, TheraFlu, lots of Theraflu.)

I think Alton Coleman could be a likely suspect. Take a peek at his history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alton_Coleman

not_my_kids
09-28-2009, 10:44 AM
Possibilities for her head, sent in today. I'm lazy, so I'm just gonna copy and paste the body of the email.

This about Headless Jane Doe (she really needs a better name) or NCIC # U-470002710
I have some links for heads. Nothing that you have to get to immediately. But this way, we can both keep track of them. Feel free to go through them at your convenience.

15-70 year old NCIC# U580023124. Race, sex undetermined. San Bernardino County, CA. Found 6-10-2009, had been there 3-20 years. Cranial vault (upper portion of skull) only.
https://identifyus.org/?p=case&i=5323&pos=0&s=DateFound_DESC&from=search

Found 9-28-2005, confiscated human skull at Miami Intl. Airport. 7-9 year old child, race and sex undetermined. Granted, it was coming into the U.S. but I have no info on if it could have originated here. No NCIC number, but there is coroner info available.
https://identifyus.org/?p=case&i=134&pos=16&s=DateFound_DESC&from=search

Found 1-24-1999 in San Bernardino, CA and the Date of death on it is 1995-1999, but the profile is a mess, it appears to be skull only, 15-80 years old, it gives the dentals and then says that dentals are not available. So, at least some of the info is off and it might not be a bad idea to contact. I tried, but some coroner's won't talk without a badge to back up the request. NCIC# U280004401
https://identifyus.org/?p=case&i=2502&pos=51&s=DateFound_DESC&from=search

NCIC # U629250767 found 3-5-1993 in Hidalgo County, TX, thought to be the skull only of a small child, race unknown. Approx. date of death is a little off.
https://identifyus.org/?p=case&i=3810&pos=79&s=DateFound_DESC&from=search

NCIC# U190017209 found 7-13-1984 in Los Angeles Co. CA. Jaw bone of a person 11-14 years old, race and sex undetermined. Approx date of death was 1984.
https://identifyus.org/?p=case&i=4227&pos=124&s=DateFound_DESC&from=search

Laura_Bean
09-28-2009, 11:27 AM
I disagree that it was Alton. Although some things seem to fit, I have something to say here. You DON'T start out beheading a small child and moving to just strangeling and not removing heads. You start out just raping and murdering and move ON to cutting off heads. I could be wrong but that's what I think. You don't start out doing the worst and move on to lesser charges. I think this girl was someone's LAST victim, not their first or second.

not_my_kids
09-28-2009, 03:09 PM
I disagree that it was Alton. Although some things seem to fit, I have something to say here. You DON'T start out beheading a small child and moving to just strangeling and not removing heads. You start out just raping and murdering and move ON to cutting off heads. I could be wrong but that's what I think. You don't start out doing the worst and move on to lesser charges. I think this girl was someone's LAST victim, not their first or second.


I'm with you there. You don't go backwards from decapitation. I've been looking into UID's and murders with hesitation marks on the neck. Like they wanted to take the head and couldn't.
But unless it was someone that only took her head or neck for the reason of making ID difficult, then there is no way, IMO, that this person went out, cut off her head, and then sedately went back to strangling people.
I'm not convinced that she was a last vic. There are a lot of heads out there with no body to be found. It seems like decapitation is a little more common than I thought. There could have been others after her.
The exception to this would be if Alton were working with a different partner in 1982-1983, and the strangulation was his fetish, the decapitation theirs.

Spurser
09-28-2009, 03:45 PM
Alton and Debra were featured on Wicked Attraction yesterday (A & E). Very disgusting individuals.

This is such a sad case. You guys are doing great work here.

Snufamonbobball
09-28-2009, 03:45 PM
I disagree that it was Alton. Although some things seem to fit, I have something to say here. You DON'T start out beheading a small child and moving to just strangeling and not removing heads. You start out just raping and murdering and move ON to cutting off heads. I could be wrong but that's what I think. You don't start out doing the worst and move on to lesser charges. I think this girl was someone's LAST victim, not their first or second.


I respectfully disagree with you regarding the progression of killers. Each is unique, Dahmer's first victim, was beyond mutilated, and I know of other killers who were serial and not serial who mutilated their 1st victim- many of those were also children themselves.

My thought of Alton Coleman was not assigning this victim to him, just a person who I think COULD HAVE been involved.

I suggest you look closer at Alton- He was out of prison at the time of this murder. He left bodies inside abandoned buildings in mainly poor, African-American areas of cities. His history of violence is extensive and started well before 1983. He raped and murdered African American girls in this age range. He used strangulation as a manner of death. He was from the midwest. He moved bodies from one state to another.

I in no way think that a theory someone has should be discounted just because I think differently. Alton Coleman may have already been ruled out as the offender in this case- I don't know... in the end though, I think we both have the same goal. Finding her name and giving it back to her.

Here is Alton Coleman's complete (as far as they know) criminal history. It details each of his crimes, I think this is his appeal for clemency- it is an interesting look into the crimes of an absolute sociopath if nothing else. Last thing- Debra Brown WAS NOT Coleman's first accomplice.

http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache:bap5tRKf4awJ:www.drc.ohio.gov/Public/Coleman.pdf+unknown+victims+of+alton+coleman&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

I just realized Clark was sentenced to death in Feb. 1983- the same month this child was found, so he was incarcerated at the time of this murder.

http://www.francesfarmersrevenge.com/stuff/serialkillers/clarkbundy.htm

not_my_kids
09-28-2009, 04:25 PM
Snufamonbobball - Alton might be worth looking into more. It certainly couldn't hurt. Would you like the lead detective's email? It's easier than getting hold of him by phone. I figure since you found Alton, you know more about his case history and stuff than I do, so it might be better if you turned it in.

Snufamonbobball
09-28-2009, 04:59 PM
There are a couple of other things that point me to Coleman. His grandmother practiced voodoo. He was forced to obtain and kill the animals for her rituals, perhaps that is where the removal of the neck comes from.

He felt as if voodoo spirits were protecting him. Could her head have been used in a quasi- voodoo thing?

After Coleman was caught, he made a big deal about how he had to kill African- Americans, he said he would have been noticed otherwise. I firmly believe that whomever killed this child would have had to fit into this neighborhood.

The big question is where did this girl come from. Coleman was adept at manipulating people into trusting them with their children. He has killed another mother and daughter pair, so it is possible this girl's mother was also murdered. Debra Brown did know him at the time of this murder. She could have been a friend of hers. There are a lot of different variables- and in the end I could be totally wrong. There just seem to be a lot of things that "fit" him very well- but I am always open to new ideas.

New ideas are what solve cold cases.

not_my_kids
09-28-2009, 07:35 PM
I have wondered if the unusual style of the beheading (that statement makes me shudder) could have been related to voodoo, or military practice in a different country. I forced myself to watch the beheading of Danny Pearl video, just so I could see if the style was similar. It's not, and I didn't sleep for a week.
I have been leaning more towards a voodoo connection, since I haven't found a country that routinely takes the head and neck.
ETA: Where I was going with that was that it did point to Alton in that respect. And his whereabout are apparently unknown between 9-1981 and 7-1983. Time frame would work.

Edit again: and Alton seemed to start focusing on younger black kids in 1983. That could be telling. He might have finally found the thing that satisfied the fantasies and calmed him for a time.

Snufamonbobball
09-29-2009, 03:37 AM
She has the saddest headstone...http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=11537499

mae
09-29-2009, 12:43 PM
That is a sad headstone. No name, no birth date.

A connection to voodoo could be something along the lines of the shrunken head.

I remember reading this:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4703328.stm
""Severe stated that she had obtained the package, which contained a human head, from a male in Haiti for use as part of her voodoo beliefs," the US Attorney's Office said in a statement."

I also found this
"Talismans are bought and sold as fetishes. These could be statues representing voodoo gods, dried animal heads, or other body parts."
http://www.allabouttheoccult.org/voodoo-religion.htm Not an educational site or a site I am recommending. I just thought it made a good point about body parts being talismans and fetishes in voodoo. I am going to have to find a more reputable source for this information.

It could have been a substitute for something you can buy (http://www.goantiques.com/detail,rare-black-fetish,1423727.html):
"the realistic Black Fetish Head used for Magic Art practice for the Voodoo or Santeria traditions and ritual practice."

not_my_kids
09-29-2009, 01:04 PM
From the FindaGrave comments:
Forget-Me-Not ... On April 26, I attemped to find her grave, with bitter results. The park is overgrown partially; some markers are in the undergrowth and impossible to reach; some stones are toppled facedown ... over an hour of searching revealed no find. Since it was Sunday, I could get no burial records -- plus the office building has been abandoned and is about to fall in ..... I don't give up easily. I'll try other avenues in the future. SHE NEEDS TO BE REMEMBERED ... KWH

That is just sad. I'm due in MO in 2 weeks, I might just have to go find her grave and pull some weeds, plant a flower or two.

not_my_kids
09-29-2009, 01:10 PM
Do you think if maybe there were someone that were willing to donate another stone, and it could get some coverage from the local media before hand, that it has been long enough that it might draw someone out. They may feel safe or comfortable enough after all this time? I'd cough up a few hundred on that long shot.
Not to mention that it would be worth it to give her something with a name on it, even if the last name is Doe and represents how many lives she has touched.

mae
09-29-2009, 01:37 PM
Is it possible the commenter just never located it? I am occasionally in that area. I will have to try to get over to look. I wish I could go asap or was closer.

I think you could always ask people to pitch in or to run a fundraiser too and try to get media attention. You just need need a few people to make it happen. And I think you make a good point about attention and possible talk. You could always feel out local media outlets beforehand.

Is there an Alton Coleman thread? Reading his clemency report has heinous. I was unfamiliar with him. His crimes are all over the place.

mae
09-29-2009, 01:53 PM
There are a couple of other things that point me to Coleman. His grandmother practiced voodoo. He was forced to obtain and kill the animals for her rituals, perhaps that is where the removal of the neck comes from.

He felt as if voodoo spirits were protecting him. Could her head have been used in a quasi- voodoo thing?



There are not a lot of in depth online resources about voodoo (which is used to refer to the New Orleans version apparently). Or vodun (west africa roots) or vodou (haitian roots) as I am learning.

We could ask here
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.orisha/topics?pli=1

This book would be interesting:
Provost, Gary. Across the Border: The True Story of the Satanic Cult Killings in Matamoros, Mexico. New York: Pocket Books, 1989. Call Number: HV 6535 .M63 M37 1989
Abstract: Provides a detailed overview of the drug-related cult killings that took place at Matamoros, Mexico in Spring 1989. Important in its in-depth discussion of distinguishing features of rituals related to Santeria, Palo Mayombe, Voodoo, and Satanism. Discusses the immediate aftermath of the killings in terms of its effect on the American psyche and consequent alarmist perceptions of the rise of Satanist influence.

Spurser
09-29-2009, 10:08 PM
Do you think if maybe there were someone that were willing to donate another stone, and it could get some coverage from the local media before hand, that it has been long enough that it might draw someone out. They may feel safe or comfortable enough after all this time? I'd cough up a few hundred on that long shot.
Not to mention that it would be worth it to give her something with a name on it, even if the last name is Doe and represents how many lives she has touched.


I'll pitch in too. My heart breaks for her.

Spurser
09-29-2009, 10:12 PM
Is it possible the commenter just never located it? I am occasionally in that area. I will have to try to get over to look. I wish I could go asap or was closer.

I think you could always ask people to pitch in or to run a fundraiser too and try to get media attention. You just need need a few people to make it happen. And I think you make a good point about attention and possible talk. You could always feel out local media outlets beforehand.

Is there an Alton Coleman thread? Reading his clemency report has heinous. I was unfamiliar with him. His crimes are all over the place.

I read a book about him when I was a teenager. Scared the willies out of me. He was a truly evil person. Correction, he can't really be classified as a human being.

Snufamonbobball
11-27-2009, 01:11 AM
http://www.bnd.com/breaking_news/story/1024447.html
She is being exhumed and is going to be moved to a cemetery that isn't abandoned. She will also get a new coffin. I hope they will take DNA while she is being moved.

Please take a moment to read about the organization that has taken her under their wings. Many of us said we would like to contribute for a new headstone for this child, here is our opportunity to help.

http://www.gardenofinnocents.org/

May this child rest in peace.:angel:

not_my_kids
11-27-2009, 01:31 AM
Just for the record, I never got to MO, things came up here that had to be dealt with.

I might eventually get there, but traveling is one of those things that very often gets interrupted for me.

not_my_kids
12-31-2009, 10:52 AM
I have made a submission, I will just copy and paste the email here. It's not for an identity, but for a lower jaw found.

I know that usually, a match is submitted between the missing and the unidentified. However, this time, I am intrigued by these two sets of remains and wonder if they may not come from the same person.

https://identifyus.org/cases/3199
This is an 8-11 year old black female child found in St. Louis, MO on 2/28/1983. Her body was recovered, her head was not.


https://identifyus.org/cases/5302
This is the lower jaw of a 10-22 year old found in Fulton Co. GA on 5/28/2009. Race and gender unknown. I noticed that in the ruleouts for this jaw, there are cases dating back as far as 1983, so I thought I would suggest the possibility.

The detective that has the case of the girl in MO really has worked exhaustively, and if the jaw were not a recent find, I might not even consider it. But I do not know if he regularly checks for parts of skulls found.

Feel free to contact me if need be, and if possible, please let me know if this has been discounted already. Thank you for your time.
(Offline name and phone number redacted by me)

I know - I sound like a dork...I'll let you know what they say.

sleepface11
12-31-2009, 04:03 PM
Too bad Vernon Brown refused to talk about any other possible crimes before he was executed - he seems very likely, IMO.

http://www.skcentral.com/articles.php?article_id=517

Yes, I think Brown probably did this. I did some searching and found this site http://www.clarkprosecutor.org/html/death/US/brown967.htm
I am from St. Louis and onced lived relatively close to where Doe's body was found. Although Brown has been executed, his crimes are similar to that of Doe's. He had previously dumped a body in a dumpster behind his house, which is a possibility as to why her head has never been found. Looking at a google map, there is a park and playground within walking distance of where Brown lived in 86. hmm.

Billylee
01-21-2010, 06:49 PM
Just finished reading about this case, just makes me sick. The Namus site shows no rule outs yet. Does anyone know if Kelly Juanita Staples has been ruled out? She would have been the right age, was abducted in Illinois in 1980 when she was 6.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/s/staples_kelly.html

Snufamonbobball
01-21-2010, 07:53 PM
Last I knew, Kelly Staples had not been ruled out. Not My Kids might have more information on any new exclusions.

Billylee
01-21-2010, 10:31 PM
http://www.riverfronttimes.com/2004-12-01/news/the-case-that-haunts/


I read this article and maybe it's already here, but something bugged me, they said they found a white substance of what they thought was semen on her stomach (I suppose they could have done a dna analysis on that?), but then they said it wasn't. Two questions, firstly, if it wasn't semen, what was it? Did it get analyzed? Second, it says she was raped, then strangled, then decapitated; so would they not have dna from the semen inside her? OR, does that mean it was more than five days? Just asking some questions that are running through my mind. Also, wanted to mention that it says that her death was around 5 days before, that would have been a Thursday and the prior weekend would have been a holiday 3-day one, with Monday being the day off; just puttin' that info out there, in case someone recognizes a pattern.

2sisters
01-22-2010, 01:25 AM
How exact is it when age is determined on an unidentified victim? I looked at the crime scene photos briefly that were posted and i just think she looks older. I know some kids are tall of course but the size of her legs just looks more like a teenager young adult.

kgriffin
02-04-2010, 12:50 PM
I've come up with some new names. Wanted to see if any have been excluded. First is Tracy Davenport. Then has anyone heard about Kelly Staples being ruled out. Then there is Ivy & Violet Matory. There was a fire in the house and the mother was killed in the fire. There were supposed to be 3 of her daughters there but were not.

Spurser
02-04-2010, 08:57 PM
I've come up with some new names. Wanted to see if any have been excluded. First is Tracy Davenport. Then has anyone heard about Kelly Staples being ruled out. Then there is Ivy & Violet Matory. There was a fire in the house and the mother was killed in the fire. There were supposed to be 3 of her daughters there but were not.

Just posting the links to their Charley Project pages.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/d/davenport_tracy.html

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/s/staples_kelly.html

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/m/matory_violet.html

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/m/matory_ivy.html

carbuff
02-04-2010, 09:05 PM
How exact is it when age is determined on an unidentified victim? I looked at the crime scene photos briefly that were posted and i just think she looks older. I know some kids are tall of course but the size of her legs just looks more like a teenager young adult.

One of the key identifiers for a child's age is the growth zones in the long bones. When a baby is born, the bones are still mostly cartilage. As the child grows, bone gradually replaces the cartilage, until at adulthood the bones are entirely fused -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bone#Endochondral_ossification. That usually happens around 20, give or take, and I believe girls mature faster.

So even if she was big for her age, they could get a pretty accurate age estimate.

kgriffin
02-05-2010, 08:01 AM
Ok, so if the age estimation is correct and posts concerning this girl being older are incorrect, then that takes out Tracy Davenport, Iv Matory and Violet Matory. Also after reviewing Kelly Staples, I don't think that she would have grown 1" 6" and gained 28 pounds in three years. So, that knocks out all my possibilities and it's back to the drawling board. I have many problems with this case. I would think that someone would notice a 8-11 year old being around and not seeing her attend school. I wonder if LE followed up to see if students that moved and got their transcripts were actually enrolled in another school? This case is really eating at my heart. I agree that the monster that did this must be familiar with the area. Someone that would blend in. This little angel suffered so much. To be raped, strangled, then decpitated, left exposed and thrown away like trash. She had to have someone that cared for her. It just boggles my mind.

2sisters
02-05-2010, 11:03 AM
One of the key identifiers for a child's age is the growth zones in the long bones. When a baby is born, the bones are still mostly cartilage. As the child grows, bone gradually replaces the cartilage, until at adulthood the bones are entirely fused -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bone#Endochondral_ossification. That usually happens around 20, give or take, and I believe girls mature faster.

So even if she was big for her age, they could get a pretty accurate age estimate.
Ok thanks.

carbuff
02-06-2010, 08:53 AM
Ok thanks.

You're welcome.

And of course none of that tells us whether the age estimate on this poor girl was accurate. More information comes from the teeth and the bony plates on the head -- I'd guess this estimate could be off by more than most.

Not that I'm an expert or anything.

kgriffin
02-17-2010, 09:31 AM
If this child was found completely frozen, is LE sure that she couldn't have been frozen longer than 2 months. I can't remember the case, but a man murdered a woman and keep her in a freezer for years. I'm wondering if forensics can approximate how long te body was frozen?

not_my_kids
02-22-2010, 05:13 PM
To the best of my knowledge, the only two I have seen suggested here that haven't been ruled out are Kelly Staples and Nikole Betterson. Nikole's parents are both dead and so is Kelly's father. Her mother took off without giving DNA, apparently due to substance problems. So until DNA sources are located for them, there really isn't a way to positively rule them out.

I need to get an update. But, this is the most current stuff that I have on Little One.

Cubby
02-22-2010, 07:19 PM
Ok, so if the age estimation is correct and posts concerning this girl being older are incorrect, then that takes out Tracy Davenport, Iv Matory and Violet Matory. Also after reviewing Kelly Staples, I don't think that she would have grown 1" 6" and gained 28 pounds in three years. So, that knocks out all my possibilities and it's back to the drawling board. I have many problems with this case. I would think that someone would notice a 8-11 year old being around and not seeing her attend school. I wonder if LE followed up to see if students that moved and got their transcripts were actually enrolled in another school? This case is really eating at my heart. I agree that the monster that did this must be familiar with the area. Someone that would blend in. This little angel suffered so much. To be raped, strangled, then decpitated, left exposed and thrown away like trash. She had to have someone that cared for her. It just boggles my mind.

Some good points. I did want to mention I think 36" is waaay off for a 6 year old, even a tiny one. I always check the growth charts to see where the child may fall. We know they will most likely not fall below the 5th percentile on ht or wt. 36" is the 50th percentile for a girl just under 3 years of age. When the ht listed is similiar to this far off for the age, I try to look between the 5th and 95th percentile for ht for that age and use that as a means to work within.

Here is a link to the growth chart for 24 months and older for girls.
http://pediatrics.about.com/library/growth_charts/ngirlstwo.htm

This is one that I always hope is solved. This precious child.... I hope she knows how many of us care for her and pray for her. Not only to get back her name, but for justice.

and of course welcome to WS kgriffin.

carbuff
02-22-2010, 07:42 PM
Some good points. I did want to mention I think 36" is waaay off for a 6 year old, even a tiny one. I always check the growth charts to see where the child may fall. We know they will most likely not fall below the 5th percentile on ht or wt. 36" is the 50th percentile for a girl just under 3 years of age. When the ht listed is similiar to this far off for the age, I try to look between the 5th and 95th percentile for ht for that age and use that as a means to work within.

Here is a link to the growth chart for 24 months and older for girls.
http://pediatrics.about.com/library/growth_charts/ngirlstwo.htm

This is one that I always hope is solved. This precious child.... I hope she knows how many of us care for her and pray for her. Not only to get back her name, but for justice.

and of course welcome to WS kgriffin.

I'm thinking neglect, abuse, or extreme poverty causing malnutrition and stunted growth. Which would go along with not being reported missing.

not_my_kids
02-23-2010, 07:18 PM
I have often wondered about the age myself. At first, they thought she was a local prostitute, that means that LE must have thought the same thing I did, that she's too "curvy" to be a child that young. I know that they have better ways of checking than just to look, but I just can't shake the feeling that the age estimate should be widened. They have checked DNA on girls up through 13, so I think LE doubts the estimate too, at least a little.

I noticed a couple things, one came from this photo:
http://www.homes.com/listing/104546673/6250_Clemens_Ave_UNIVERSITY_CITY_MO_63130
The house that she was dumped in has been razed, now replaced by a subdivision and some more modernized buildings. This house is right across the borde rinto University City and if you look has a striking resemblance to the front of the house in the crime scene photos of Jane Doe's dicovery. I think they built a lot of houses like that in the area and some were later restored, like the one pictured above and some were razed, like the one Jane Doe was found in.
Since I think the University City house was built on the same basic plan, I looked at all the pictures and there is one that shows the back of the house, including outlines where you can see there used to be fire escapes and very low boarded up basement windows.
I have also studied the pictures of the hallway into the boiler room, there are no drag marks...but I look at the damage to her knees and it really does seem that she was dragged. So, I'm thinking she would have been brought in through one of those windows. The person puts her legs through the window, scoots through, grabs her feet and pulls.
The crime scene photos can be seen http://www.missingchildrenministries.org/?page_id=147 They are graphic, straight from the crime scene and morgue. They are not pretty to look at.
If this little scenario of mine is accurate, then this is someone that has no problem being in close contact with a decapitated body, and I doubt it was their first time on that merry go round.

I also think maybe we are looking at older attackers, and we shouldn't be. The person didn't want her found right away, but they didn't dump her in a lake or in a ditch in a remote area, they dumped her in a basement...they may not have had access to a vehicle, or at least not one that they had free access to all the time.


I'm just thinking out loud.

Spurser
02-24-2010, 10:17 AM
I thought they could estimate age based on growth plates on the bones. I wonder if that was done via x-rays.

not_my_kids
02-24-2010, 10:48 AM
I thought they could estimate age based on growth plates on the bones. I wonder if that was done via x-rays.
I know that they typically check bone growth, teeth, and bone fusion (I'm pretty sure that's where they look at the growth plates). Typically, as I understand it, the best way to estimate in kids is through a combo of the teeth and bone fusion. In this case, they only had half of that to work with.

They said she was well nourished, so there isn't the malnutrition angle in the time right before her death. But, there could have been malnutrition in her early years that stunted her bone growth...

I am so disheartened when I think that we might never know who she is.
I think of all the cases, she is the one that I have followed the longest and agonized over the hardest. I see her in my sleep. I've memorized every tiny little bit of info on this child. I have the same mental encyclopedia that the lead detective has on missing black girls. When I have a spare minute, I toss it her way.

I just want to give her a name and lay her to rest with all of her parts intact.

HesterMofet
02-27-2010, 11:15 PM
Bumping for little Jane Doe. Tomorrow marks the 27th anniversary of the discovery of her body. I think about her often. RIP, baby girl.

not_my_kids
02-28-2010, 06:39 AM
http://i766.photobucket.com/albums/xx306/drs_2005_photos/Holiday%20images/7ded.jpg

You will never be forgotten, we will never stop looking.

I know that she has no name, but I call her Lily. Expanded from Lil, which was shortened from Lil' jane Doe. It just seemed right, so that is the name I'll stick with until her renaming ceremony (which I am trying to find follow up on right now.)

not_my_kids
02-28-2010, 11:15 AM
Between that finding, and the bruising on her chest, they believe she was strangled to death before her grisly decapitation.
~snip~
In order to determine how long she'd been there before her discovery, lab technicians looked to the mold growing on her open neck wound for answers. They were able to recreate the same type of mold in a controlled environment, with their tests revealing that it took approximately four to five days to grow the same amount found on her corpse.
~snip~
http://www.amw.com/fugitives/case.cfm?id=68694

Link also includes a quote from Det. Carroll that they have located and followed up on children from the St. Louis public school system.
BBM

There are still some people (Okay one person) that insists that she was from a Native American reservation in MN and that Det. Carroll was not willing to investigate. That is not the story or vibe from the St. Louis police that I have received. I trust Detective Carroll, if he says that the possiblity of this has been checked, then I believe that it has.

I also find it interesting that she may have been murdered during the feast of Saint Agnes, who gained sainthood after defending her virginity and being murdered by decapitation at the age of 12 or 13 (Bear in mind there are a million different versions of how she was executed, but decapitation is one of the more common ones.)

Not really going anywhere with this, just throwing out things that I had overlooked, thinking out loud again.

ETA: If I'm wrong on the Feast of St. Agnes thing, datewise, please tell me. I am not really insinuationg much of anything with the reference besides the odd coincidence.

kgriffin
03-05-2010, 08:05 AM
I have more questions than suggestions. Is anyone aware if bruising was present around the wrists? I was also wondering if there were any impressions taken to attempt to distinguish tool marks used to decapitate this child. Were there any hesitation marks? I also would like to know the results of the sample that was taken that Billylee mentioned.

Cubby
04-22-2010, 11:07 PM
bump

Thinking about Lily.... Some info on her case may have made a media story about the little Wylie's Angel john doe found recently.

RubyRed
05-31-2010, 07:20 PM
I was buried in a pauper’s grave on December 2, 1983, ten months from the time I was found in an abandoned warehouse. For now that day of February 28, 1983 when I was found is where my story begins, but it has no ending.

On February 28, 1983 a couple men scavenging for copper stumbled through the basement of abandoned apartment building located on Clemens Ave in St Louis, Missouri. They did not find the copper they sought; instead they found my lifeless, headless body. In shear horror those men ran out of that building faster than a speeding bullet. They called the police and shortly after the entire neighborhood was swarming with police, the medical examiners office and onlookers.
At first they thought I might have been a woman who had been raped, killed and dumped. Within minutes upon approaching they rolled me over to find I was but a mere child. The cops were sickened by tragedy of my death before them.

They estimate that I was eight to eleven years old. I had been well nourished, well cared for, and in seemingly good health; until that day of course. I had been killed elsewhere, beheaded and then disposed of like a bag of trash in this building, this basement. I was left only wearing a sweater, my hands had been tied by rope behind my back and my head has not been located. The only other distinguishing factor is that I wore nail polish. To be exact, two coats of red nail polish adorned my nails.

The local authorities are doing everything they can and have been for years. Twenty six years have passed. Yet, no family has come forward. No person has been arrested for my death. No one knows who I am, where I came from, or why this tragedy occurred.

My spirit is way beyond the age of eleven and walks endlessly, restlessly until the day someone comes forward to claim me, name me.


Specific Details:

Sex: Female
Race: Black
Age: 8 to 11 yrs old
Height: 4’10 est
Weight: 70 lbs
Distinguishing Characteristics: No scars, no deformities, well nourished and she was of medium complexion
Clothing: Yellow V Neck Sweater and two coats of red finger nail polish
Cause of Death: Homicide (sexually assaulted and then strangled, head removed with large bladed knife after death)
Location of Death: Unknown (killed elsewhere)
Other: Red and white nylon rope used to tie her hands behind her back

ANY INFORMATION PERTAINING TO FAITH DOE PLEASE CONTACT:
St. Louis Police Department
Detective Thomas Carroll
314-444-5371
You may remain anonymous when submitting information.

NCIC Number:
U-470002710
Please refer to this number when contacting any agency about this case.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

http://canyouidentifyme.blogspot.com/search/label/Unidentified%20Child

lieber32
11-17-2010, 09:09 PM
Link to website: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/6865/jd.html

Sunday, March 3, 1991

Section: NEWS

</FONT>
UNSOLVED CHILD KILLING HAUNTS POLICE
By Bill Bryan Of the Post-Dispatch Staff






It's been eight years since one of the most baffling cases in the annals of the St. Louis Police Department began, and the mystery remains.

On that cold, crisp, clear day of Feb. 28, 1983, two men looking for a piece of metal to rig a broken drive train on their car made a grisly discovery. While rummaging through a vacant apartment house at 5635 Clemens Avenue in the Cabanne neighborhood, they found the body of a girl on the boiler room floor.


The body was clad only in a dirty yellow sweater with the hands bound behind the back with a red and white nylon rope. The head was missing.

An autopsy disclosed that the girl, who was black, was 8 to 11 years old and had been sexually assaulted. She had been killed elsewhere.

After eight years and countless hours of detective work, police still don't know the identity of the victim, much less who may have killed her.

''I don't suppose I'll ever forget that case,'' said Chief of Detectives Leroy J. Adkins, who was the commander of the homicide squad when the case began.

''It still bothers me,'' said Adkins. ''I guess I'm perplexed more than anything else because we've never identified her after all these years.

''Here you have a child, 8, 9, 10 years old and there's no relatives, parents, neighbors, schoolmates or friends who have reported her missing. Nobody has come forward to offer any information about her.

''What is most distressing is how a child that age can't belong to anybody.''

Adkins called the investigation ''one of most extensive, thorough, painstaking investigations in the history of the department.''

Homicide Sgt. Joe Burgoon has been the primary investigator in the case. He points to a file cabinet stuffed with information such as leads, lists, computer printouts of missing children and stacks of school rosters.

''We've even got information from psychics in there,'' he said.

In 1986, Burgoon sent a report to the FBI Academy in Quantico, Va., which runs a special program that analyzes unsolved killings throughout the country.

''The FBI could find nothing to compare to our case anywhere in the United States,'' Burgoon said. ''It's amazing.''

But Burgoon has not given up hope. ''Right now, I'm looking at an abduction case from Chicago,'' he said. ''A 7 1/2-year-old girl was reported abducted in January 1980, and she's never been found.''

Another homicide sergeant thinks that a man on death row in Missouri may be the killer of the girl, and the detective plans to question the man soon.

Dr. Mary Case, the medical examiner for St. Louis County and St. Charles County, remembers the ''Jane Doe'' case well because she was deputy chief medical examiner for St. Louis at the time.

''I remember there were more hours spent on that case than any other I can recall,'' she said.

''In this part of the country, for a child to be murdered like that and not identified is just so unbelievable.''

Adkins says, ''There are so many theories. The girl lived a secluded life. Her mother, or parents, were involved in the murder. The possibilities go on and on.

''She probably was from out of the state, though,'' he said. ''We checked school records around here very, very thoroughly.

''We conducted a nationwide search,'' Adkins said. ''We ran ads in every black newspaper and magazine in the country and corresponded with every state police agency.

''Still nothing. It's frustrating.''
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Friday, June 5, 1992

Section: NEWS

</FONT>
SKULL MAY BE LINKED TO UNSOLVED MURDER
By Bill Bryan Of the Post-Dispatch Staff






The recovery of a human skull has authorities optimistic that they may have the first solid clue in one of St. Louis' most baffling unsolved murders - the decapitation of an unknown girl nine years ago.

''Obviously, we're very interested in this skull,'' said Dr. Mary Case, the St. Louis County Medical Examiner. Her office has custody of the skull, which was obtained by a Charlack police lieutenant on May 14 from a man he had stopped to question on St. Charles Rock Road, near the Interstate I-170.


''The skull is definitely that of a child, but at this time we don't know the sex or race,'' Case said. ''DNA testing will be able to tell us if the skull belongs to the body of the murder victim.''

If the skull and body are matched, Homicide Sgt. Joe Burgoon said police will ''backtrack the origin of the skull and hopefully get her identified.''

He said discoveries of human skulls - particularly those of children - are rare and have piqued police curiosity.

Burgoon has been the primary investigator on the ''Jane Doe'' case for the last several years.

''It's too early to get too excited, but I'm encouraged,'' he said. ''It's the best lead we've got thus far.''

The DNA tests could take several weeks to complete, Case said.

Meanwhile, authorities plan to have archaeologists examine the skull to determine its age. The owner of the skull says it is 1,100 years old.

The skull came to light May 14, when Charlack Lt. Tony Umbertino saw a man in a storage rental shed on St. Charles Rock Road and questioned him to see if he belonged there.

The man was later identified as Danny L. Davis, 33, of Pagedale.

''As I was talking to him, I noticed a couple of animal skulls in the shed,'' Umbertino said. ''One was a rat's skull with a German Army helmet on it.

''I asked him about the skulls, and he told me he was a 'skull freak' and had a human skull as well,'' Umbertino said. ''He had it right there inside a Tide Bleach box. It was wrapped with electrical tape.''

Umbertino confiscated the skull and turned it over to Case's office.

In an interview, Davis said he bought the skull for $35 in 1977 or 1978 at a souvenir-gift shop on Lindbergh Boulevard near Northwest Plaza shopping center. The shop has since gone out of business, he said.

''I collect skulls,'' Davis said. ''I have skulls of cows, birds and deer, but this was the only real human one I had.''

Davis said a tag that came with the skull claimed it to be authentic and 1,100 years old. ''The skull was that of a Navajo Indian woman, 22 years old, from New Mexico,'' Davis said.

''She had been killed by a blow from a tomahawk at the base of the skull.''

Davis said that shortly after buying the skull, he took it to a museum. ''They told me it was a little over 1,000 years old, and they wanted me to donate it to them,'' he said.

''But I wasn't about to give it to them. This was my pride and joy. It was the only real one I had. A lot of folks think I'm weird, but I'm fascinated with the way bones are put together,'' Davis said.

Police plan to question Davis again if the skull is matched to the body.

The murder victim's body was discovered Feb. 28, 1983, by two men who were rummaging around in the basement of a vacant apartment building at 5635 Clemens Avenue.

Despite thousands of hours of investigation, police could never identify the body, let alone solve the murder.


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Theres a line in this post from police that states this type of crime was rare in this area. This case is what led me to sites like this. Remember reading about it when researching a book about lost and saved historic St.Louis area historical structures (crime occured in University City not the City of St. Louis, U-City borders St.Louis however). This area at the time where the girl was found was a steamy area littered with violent crime. A boy killed in park by an attacking dog, prostitute found dead etc. This area is now an upper class suburb of St.louis City littered with professors, doctors, lawyers etc. The building she was found in was abandoned at the time. I also live in a historic st.louis neighborhood that when I moved had lots of abandoned buildings and crime but is also now a trendy area with almost a 100 percent occupency rate. When I moved to my building their were drug dealers squating in the first floor apartment, four years later most of my neighbors are upper class white from either Illinois like myself or the suburbs. Also I can tell you from someone that used to use st.louis public transportation system that it is common to see young africa americas that should be in school but aren't. The St.Louis Post posted an article about that a few years ago and I can imagine that would be an issue back then.

lieber32
11-17-2010, 09:28 PM
Link: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/6865/jd.html

Tuesday, March 2, 1993

Section: NEWS

</FONT>
HEADLESS GIRL STILL NAMELESS AFTER 10 YEARS
By Bill Bryan
Of the Post-Dispatch Staff






She was about 11 years old when someone sexually attacked her and then cut off her head in what police say is the only case of its kind in a country that has grown used to ghastly crimes.

Ten years later, St. Louis police are no closer to learning the identity of the child they know only as Jane Doe - or to finding her killer.


Sunday marked the 10th anniversary of the discovery of the body in the basement of a vacant building in the Cabanne neighborhood.

"It's certainly bizarre," said St. Louis Homicide Sgt. Joe Burgoon, who has been the main investigator for several years.

The FBI agency that documents and studies unsolved murders reported this is the only decapitation in the country involving someone so young, Burgoon said.

A remote lead was dispelled last week when the Armed Forces Medical Examiner's Office in Washington reported that a skull recovered in May in St. Louis County was not the murder victim's.

"It was a long shot but worth pursuing," said Dr. Mary Case, the St. Louis County medical examiner, who had sent the skull to Washington.

Dr. William Rodriguez, a forensic anthropologist, determined that it was too old to be the girl's skull.

A Charlack police officer got the skull from a man he had questioned at a storage shed on St. Charles Rock Road, near Interstate 170.

The man, Danny L. Davis, 34, of Pagedale, said he bought the skull for $35 in the late 1970s at a souvenir-gift shop on Lindbergh Boulevard near Northwest Plaza shopping center.

Davis said he was told the skull was that of a young Indian woman who had been killed by a tomahawk.

The body of the girl, who was black, was found Feb. 28, 1983 by two men rummaging in the basement of a vacant apartment building at 5635 Clemens Avenue. The body was clad only in a dirty yellow sweater; the hands were tied in back with a red and white nylon rope.

Police determined that the girl had been killed elsewhere.

"Back then, I believed this would be an easy case to crack," Burgoon recalled. "We'd find out who the girl was, and that would lead us to the killer."

That never happened.

Burgoon hasn't given up hope.

"There's somebody out there who knows who this little girl was."
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Thursday, March 3, 1994

Section: NEWS

</FONT>
CARING DETECTIVE STILL GRIEVES FOR UNCLAIMED CHILD
By Christine Bertelson






THE HEADLESS body of Jane Doe haunts Leroy Adkins.

Eleven years ago, Adkins was the cop in charge of investigating the murder, rape and decapitation of an unidentified child. Every year about this time, Adkins relives the agony of the unsolved case. This year, the recent murders of Cassidy Senter and Angie Housman have made the pain that much harder to bear.


"Each year I feel that this case will finally be solved," Adkins said. "Each year I am disappointed in myself and in mankind. I will never forget, never rest, never be at peace with myself until this case is solved."

Adkins, 62, retired from the St. Louis Police Department in 1992. He now is chief of security at Lambert Field. In 34 years of police work, no case ever touched him as much as Jane Doe's.

It was Feb. 28, 1983, when Adkins - then commander of the city's homicide division - got the call for a dead body in the basement of an abandoned building at 5635 Clemens Avenue. Amid filth and debris, two men scavenging for copper had stumbled on the body of a girl about 9 years old. She had been murdered, raped and decapitated. Her hands were tied behind her back with a red-and-white nylon rope. She was wearing only a dirty yellow orlon sweater with the label cut out. She had two layers of red nail polish on her fingernails.

The girl had medium-to-dark skin, was about 5 feet 4 inches and weighed about 70 pounds. Her body showed no signs of previous abuse - no bruises, scars or broken bones, and she appeared to be well-nourished. Because there was no blood at the scene, police suspect Jane Doe was murdered and decapitated somewhere else and dumped into the basement of the building.

Adkins and his detectives spent thousands of hours on the case. Letters sent to every state police agency in the nation turned up nothing. City school records, woefully disorganized, yielded no clues to her identity. Adkins pleaded with the public to come forward with any scrap of information that would help identify the little girl.

No one did.

The child's body lay in the city morgue for several months, drawing a crowd of gawkers like some ghoulish carnival attraction. One day, a state legislator, with an entourage of people claiming to have psychic powers, showed up and demanded to see the body.

Jane Doe was finally buried Dec. 2, 1983, in a pauper's grave on the southern side of Washington Park Cemetery. Four mud-covered gravediggers carried her small, white casket adorned with a single spray of pink, white and yellow flowers. The ceremony lasted five minutes. Months later, a group of schoolchildren raised money to buy Jane Doe a tombstone.

Adkins went to the funeral, hoping that a friend or relative of Jane Doe might show up.

No one did.

Even though Adkins never wants to forget Jane Doe, he never visited the grave again. "I don't think I could bring myself to do it," Adkins said. "I get chills just thinking about it."

Over the years, an occasional lead revives the case. Several weeks after the murder, someone wrote a letter to the police, naming the supposed killer. Last year, police recovered a human skull purchased in a souvenir shop near Northwest Plaza. A forensic anthropologist determined the female skull was too old to be that of Jane Doe.

Police are now checking the life history of Samuel Ivery, a 35-year-old man sentenced to death for beheading a woman in Mobile, Ala. Ivery is a suspect in the 1992 beheadings of two women in East St. Louis. Between stints in mental hospitals, might Ivery have been in St. Louis at the time of Jane Doe's murder? For the moment, it's just a theory.

For 11 years, Adkins has had recurring nightmares about Jane Doe. In the dreams, he is standing in the cold basement at 5635 Clemens, looking at the body. Like the meticulous cop he was, Adkins is searching for clues, trying not to overlook anything. But there is something he misses - the tiny detail that could crack the case. He wakes up in a cold sweat. Now and then, Adkins will see something in a magazine - mention of a missing black child about the same age Jane Doe would be today - and mail it to Sgt. Joe Burgoon. Burgoon, one of the detectives originally assigned to the Jane Doe case, is still working on it. Last weekend, Burgoon teletyped a description of Jane Doe's body to every police department in the country. Maybe somebody, somewhere, knows something.

"The case is never closed," Burgoon said.

It is not the brutality of the crime that troubles Adkins after all this time; he has seen plenty of brutal murders. What bothered him then, bothers him still, is the thought of a child no one would come forward to claim.

"If we just knew who she was, I think it would be a burden lifted from my shoulders," Adkins said. "Where is the mother? Where is the father? Where are her brothers or sisters? Where are her relatives? Where are her playmates, friends or classmates? Where are her neighbors, her teachers? Where are the people who knew and cared for her? It's almost as if she didn't exist."

Almost.
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http://visit.webhosting.yahoo.com/visit.gif?us1143680092

As a St.Louis resident the thing that irks me the most is even if something occured, someone was from, or a job was available in any of St.Louis's many suburbs or neighboring any St.Louis suburbs its still listed as St.Louis city. This crime occured in U-City, I as a St.Louis City employee cannot access county records. County is County and City is City ( I do background checks and retrieve police reports and if it occured in county which if it occured on this part of Tamm being county/different jurisdiction I don't have access to nearly as much as a county LE civilliam employee). I met someome who asked me where) I was from on the metro and I said Saint Louis City (Soulard) he said me too, I asked him where in city and he said Union (which isn't even in St.Louis County). When I looked for a job in Saint Louis will narrow it to St. Louis City and most of the listings will be in the county. Even the most west suburbs of West County will list themselves as St. Louis city. Its a very big pet peeve of mine.

lieber32
11-17-2010, 10:11 PM
Okay, made a call back, first thing I asked is if she was killed by manual or ligature strangulation, no idea, since her head was removed right above the shoulders.

Also, the information that she had been there 5 days could be very incorrect, as she was completely frozen and could have been there for 2 months, just as easily as 5 days.

She is not
Sharuan Cole
Toya Hill
Shaunda Green
Shelia Hill
She is not an unidentified indian girl that someone insisted had to he her.

Nikole Betterson has not been ruled out and neither has Kelly Staples.
Kelly Staples mother has to be found for DNA, since her father is dead and as of now, they can't find mother either.

As far as locating a parent, the men that found her body are clear as far as being a familial relation, as is Curtis Thomas, who lived a few blocks from her and decapitated his wife.

Heads up (no pun intended) if you try looking for her head, there was one in SC that looked good until it was established that it was the whole body, not the head and something got lost in translation. That might not have been corrected yet, so don't let it trip you up.

I lived in St. Louis for a while and rented apartments in the area she was found. She was found just a few blocks away from our apartments. When I was there (early 2000's), it was considered an area in "transition". I actually rented apartments like these that were revamped.

Whomever killed this child had to be at least a little familiar with the area. This isn't an area where you would wander around looking for a vacant building to dump a body- although until about 10 yrs ago- it was a very high crime area (was still heavy on burglaries and robbery while I was there) and I'm sure there were plenty of vacant buildings to do just that. The address where she was located is in the heart of the city and to find her, you had to really go inside the building. He had to be comfortable in that area. Outsiders would have stuck out like a sore thumb.

The rope used to tie her hands I believe was used primarily to facilitate the body dump. When they tied them around her wrists, they also went over her sweater, but there aren't any coresponding marks on the sweater. The drag marks on the front of her thighs say he just pulled her in and dumped her.

She may not be local, but no way her killer just stumbled into that building.

I hope wherever she is- she knows that she has not been forgotten.

Thanks for the imput as someoe that has lived in the city of St.louis for five years and had a father that moved when I was eight (twenty six years ago) I agree that when you lived there it was it in transition. At the time this happened it was not and crime was rampant, see my theads on boy being killed by dog in park and prostitute being found dead. At one time a gorgeous Catholic institution school lay nearby, it was torn down years ago. I remember as a child going into this neighborhood (as my dad a lawyer in Clayton had many clients that lived there that did not drive) visit to get documents signed etc and I remember him telling us to lock the doors. Even today I am amazed at how much this neighborhood has changed. It shows us how far a neighborhood can change for better, worse, and even better again. I too hope this crime gets solved. I as someone that live in a rehabed city neighborhood I hold out hope that all St.Louis historical neighborhoods will become what they once were. As a side not this crime occured in U-City not St. Louis City proper ( I have many close friends and ties in U-City and it being a bordering suburb of the city it shares in many of the historical history).

lieber32
11-17-2010, 10:23 PM
I wonder if she was a victim of human trafficking? If she is an immigrant, I am leaning towards Haitian...does anyone know if there is a large Haitian population there? Maybe that would have been a good place for the police to question people?

As someone that lives in St.Louis city I do encounter Haitan women and men on a weekly basis so that is not impossible.

Laura_Bean
01-20-2011, 09:24 PM
The Doe Network:
Case File 86DFNY

Left: Cole in 1982; Right: Age-progressed to age 39 (circa 2010)

Sharaun Cole
Missing since February 25, 1983 from New York City, New York
Classification: Endangered Missing



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Vital Statistics
•Date Of Birth: October 8, 1970
•Age at Time of Disappearance: 12 years old
•Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 5'6"-5'7; 110-150 pounds
•Distinguishing Characteristics: Black female. Black hair; brown eyes.
•Clothing: Beige jacket, blue jeans and blue & white sneakers.
•Other: Cole may use "October 8, 1969" as an alternate date of birth.
•DNA: Available


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Circumstances of Disappearance
Cole was last seen outside her family's New York City home on February 25, 1983.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Investigators
If you have any information concerning Cole's case, please contact:
New York City Police Department
1-212-694-7781
All information may be submitted on an anonymous basis.

Agency Case Number: KNMP02618

NCMEC #: NCMC857497

NCIC Number: M-136482540
Please refer to this number when contacting any agency with information regarding this case.

not_my_kids
01-20-2011, 10:01 PM
Sharaun Cole has been ruled out, per the detective that has her case.

Ambercat
06-02-2011, 11:18 PM
She is not
Sharuan Cole
Toya Hill
Shaunda Green
Shelia Hill
She is not an unidentified indian girl that someone insisted had to he her.


From India or a Native American?

I have always been really disturbed by what happened to this little girl and that she has remained unidentified.

I thought that maybe she wasn't African-American in origin, that her family might have been from India or Sri Lanka. If I am understanding you correctly, this is not the case? I am assuming that her race was determined by the color of her skin since her head was missing -- is this correct?

Ambercat
06-03-2011, 11:26 PM
Also wondering about the tag being removed from her shirt, could indicate that she was a foster child or lived in a group home, an environment where her initials or name would have been written inside or maybe an out of country maker, which would also be telling.


Probably the tag on her sweater had her name written on it. I think most kids of grade school age write their names in their sweaters/coats so to know which one is yours if you take it off due to being overheated then put it back on when it gets colder. I don't think its indicative of her being a foster child or living in a group home.

Ambercat
06-04-2011, 02:59 PM
I think Alton Coleman could be a likely suspect. Take a peek at his history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alton_Coleman

I agree with you about Alton Coleman. He was active in the area in 1984. Does anyone know his whereabouts in 1983 during the time this little girl was killed?

Ambercat
06-04-2011, 03:10 PM
I disagree that it was Alton. Although some things seem to fit, I have something to say here. You DON'T start out beheading a small child and moving to just strangeling and not removing heads. You start out just raping and murdering and move ON to cutting off heads. I could be wrong but that's what I think. You don't start out doing the worst and move on to lesser charges. I think this girl was someone's LAST victim, not their first or second.

I disagree with you about this and think that it is at least possible. For example, Randy Kraft decapitated at least two victims in the 1970s (a still unidentified man who was decapitated and dismembered in 1973 and Keith Daven Crotwell in 1975) and the majority of the rest were strangled and mutilated. Randy Kraft and Alton Coleman had really different victims.

Christi
06-08-2011, 03:50 PM
I've never tried to identify anyone before, but could this be her?

http://www.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/PubCaseSearchServlet?act=viewChildDetail&caseNum=857497&orgPrefix=NCMC&seqNum=1&caseLang=en_US&searchLang=en_US

Cubby
06-08-2011, 03:55 PM
I've never tried to identify anyone before, but could this be her?

http://www.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/PubCaseSearchServlet?act=viewChildDetail&caseNum=857497&orgPrefix=NCMC&seqNum=1&caseLang=en_US&searchLang=en_US



A few posts up, (1st post on this page, post #126) indicates Sharaun has been officially ruled out.

Thank you for your interest in this case and the UID forum Christi.

TickleB
06-14-2011, 12:54 AM
I recently Googled this case not too long ago and I will never do that again. On some links they show the crime scene photo's. It is truly heartbreaking.

Ambercat
06-14-2011, 03:27 AM
I wonder if her head could have been used in a voodoo (or similar ceremony)? There is a case of a little boy from Nigeria in the UK who was unidentified for ten years
Adam (unsolved Thames murder case) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Could she have been murdered for similar reasons (ritual murder)?

Snufamonbobball
06-15-2011, 01:07 AM
Sadly, it looks like they weren't able to exhume her because they don't know where she's buried. Her headstone wasn't on the right plot.

http://www.ksdk.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=192676

I can't find anymore articles saying they've located her remains. If anyone local knows if they've found her yet, please post. Thanks!

Never Forgotten.

T4Tide
06-15-2011, 03:51 AM
Looking at the sweater, the tag appears to be dark in color, sewn in on four corners. It could have been removed if it was sold at a discount or damaged goods place. It looks to me like it is a Studio One Campus sweater.

vtg STUDIO one CAMPUS wool PULL over V sweater M medium | eBay

Imperfect Harmony
09-13-2011, 04:25 PM
Hi. I've been lurking on Websleuths and reading for awhile before I decided to get an account and post, in part because of this case. I was reading through this thread late last night and a thought occurred to me. Is it possible that the reason that the St. Louis detectives couldn't find school records for her because she was home-schooled? I don't know how common that practice was when this homicide took place, but could it possibly be the case?

STANDREID
09-13-2011, 05:59 PM
I listed this slaying at #118 on my top 200 classic unsolved murder cases under the name Little Miss Jane Doe - a tragic and frustrating crime indeed.

Perhaps it has already been mentioned but there is a 10+ page account of the crime in Murderers Among Us (1991) by Stephen G. Michaud and Hugh Aynesworth.

Cubby
09-13-2011, 06:38 PM
Welcome to websleuths Imperfect Harmony.

:welcome:

Spurser
09-14-2011, 09:13 AM
Hi. I've been lurking on Websleuths and reading for awhile before I decided to get an account and post, in part because of this case. I was reading through this thread late last night and a thought occurred to me. Is it possible that the reason that the St. Louis detectives couldn't find school records for her because she was home-schooled? I don't know how common that practice was when this homicide took place, but could it possibly be the case?

Welcome. Thanks for bumping her case up. This case has always haunted me.

Imperfect Harmony
09-14-2011, 07:13 PM
Welcome. Thanks for bumping her case up. This case has always haunted me.

Thanks. It has me too. It's just disturbing and sad to me that she died so brutally and nobody seems to miss her. It seems like she was just thrown away.

I was thinking about her during one of my breaks today, and I started wondering if the reason that nobody even reported her missing might be because she has no family...either due to them being in jail or not around for some other reason. I don't remember whether this has been brought up earlier in the thread or not.

lieber32
09-14-2011, 08:12 PM
Thanks. It has me too. It's just disturbing and sad to me that she died so brutally and nobody seems to miss her. It seems like she was just thrown away.

I was thinking about her during one of my breaks today, and I started wondering if the reason that nobody even reported her missing might be because she has no family...either due to them being in jail or not around for some other reason. I don't remember whether this has been brought up earlier in the thread or not.

As a civilian LE person of the SLMPD (not sure if ever verified here but did speak to Theresa from work, was a busy week for me) I think many here don't understand the social realities of many african americans in this city. I have lived in the city of saint louis for over seven years and it is this case that brought me to websleuths and other such sites. I have pointed out that many african american youths do not attend school regularly (live a block from peabodys and sometimes get days of such as unpaid DH's and sick bonus days and have always been amazed how many kids that should be in school aren't). Also know from reading local media how awful kept records are of school attendance (plus articles from Saint Louis Post Dispatch about youths that should me in school heckling people on metro link )and also from my job as I've had to put on more then a few background checks trauncy (parent mine you not kids as they are juveniles and their records are closed). On top of this we get a few mothers with kids with serious warrents that we have to call to be arrested, the police will stall for a few hours to get someone to pick kids up so they would not have to call child services but a few times no one was able to pick up kids. My background leads me to believe this child like many in this city don't attend school regularly enough to go missing.

Ambercat
09-17-2011, 04:14 AM
Hi. I've been lurking on Websleuths and reading for awhile before I decided to get an account and post, in part because of this case. I was reading through this thread late last night and a thought occurred to me. Is it possible that the reason that the St. Louis detectives couldn't find school records for her because she was home-schooled? I don't know how common that practice was when this homicide took place, but could it possibly be the case?

I don't think that home schooling became a trend until later in the US. I tried to look for statistics about it on the web, but wasn't really able. I e-mailed a home school advocacy group and asked. I'll let you know if they provide any more information.

Ambercat
09-17-2011, 04:34 AM
As a civilian LE person of the SLMPD (not sure if ever verified here but did speak to Theresa from work, was a busy week for me) I think many here don't understand the social realities of many african americans in this city. I have lived in the city of saint louis for over seven years and it is this case that brought me to websleuths and other such sites. I have pointed out that many african american youths do not attend school regularly (live a block from peabodys and sometimes get days of such as unpaid DH's and sick bonus days and have always been amazed how many kids that should be in school aren't). Also know from reading local media how awful kept records are of school attendance (plus articles from Saint Louis Post Dispatch about youths that should me in school heckling people on metro link )and also from my job as I've had to put on more then a few background checks trauncy (parent mine you not kids as they are juveniles and their records are closed). On top of this we get a few mothers with kids with serious warrents that we have to call to be arrested, the police will stall for a few hours to get someone to pick kids up so they would not have to call child services but a few times no one was able to pick up kids. My background leads me to believe this child like many in this city don't attend school regularly enough to go missing.

That's so incredibly sad. Even if that is the case, she must have had family or friends (or at least acquaintances?) who would notice if she wasn't around and possibly contact LE to inquire if the body found was her?

rpipergirl
09-17-2011, 09:46 PM
She has a Facebook page: http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Girl-No-One-Seems-To-Miss/139540406108035?sk=wall Poor Poor child. :(

Imperfect Harmony
09-18-2011, 11:28 AM
I don't think that home schooling became a trend until later in the US. I tried to look for statistics about it on the web, but wasn't really able. I e-mailed a home school advocacy group and asked. I'll let you know if they provide any more information.

I didn't think so either, but it was just a thought. I will admit that my last two posts were just throwing things out there, in hopes that something might help.

SyraKelly
09-24-2011, 10:34 AM
I think of this little girl often..I always check to see if they indentified her and found her killer..what a monster that did this!!!

tierneysain
10-26-2011, 12:35 PM
I was 15 I remember this when it happened and seen it on the news and I still think this little girl was sold for drugs. I wonder how far back the Whirl newspaper went and if it went prior to this killing her mother or father was probably shamed in it at one point. You never know. Just checked and the Evening Whirl started in 1938. I think detective posted add, but if you sell your own kid for drugs I don't think ya would turn yourself in! Who knows.

marycarney
10-26-2011, 12:45 PM
As far as homeschooling - highly unlikely. I started in 1987 - and at that time there were actually men IMPRISONED for homeschooling their children in MI and ND. It was very much outside the mainstream in '87, much less four years earlier.

What an awful case. OH, another thought about the tag in the sweater - I routinely cut/ rip the tags out of clothing because they bother me. Did it on a lot of my children's things too.

lieber32
10-26-2011, 08:02 PM
I was 15 I remember this when it happened and seen it on the news and I still think this little girl was sold for drugs. I wonder how far back the Whirl newspaper went and if it went prior to this killing her mother or father was probably shamed in it at one point. You never know. Just checked and the Evening Whirl started in 1938. I think detective posted add, but if you sell your own kid for drugs I don't think ya would turn yourself in! Who knows.

I'm not from the saint louis area but have lived here for several years and when I question the local people on this case they are very evasive with me. Would like to hear what you have to say as a native of the Saint Louis area. I work for the slmpd and even they are evasive with me (to be honest can't say its because they know anything, we have a few old timers but I'm sure they have seen a lot, I know I have in my limited time with the police department). This case brought me to websleuths and I can still remember seeing unaltered photo of her in a book I checked out at library when researching historic buildings in St.Louis. Know the history of the area she disappeared from but have no way of locating the report because its on microfilm without suspect, cause number or a name (hence shes a jane doe) to find. What you remember would be greatly appreciated.

lieber32
10-26-2011, 08:24 PM
I was 15 I remember this when it happened and seen it on the news and I still think this little girl was sold for drugs. I wonder how far back the Whirl newspaper went and if it went prior to this killing her mother or father was probably shamed in it at one point. You never know. Just checked and the Evening Whirl started in 1938. I think detective posted add, but if you sell your own kid for drugs I don't think ya would turn yourself in! Who knows.

I'm not a st.louis native but have lived in the city for several years. This case brought me to websleuths. Never heard of Whirl does it still exist? Where can I get it if it does?. Locals are very evasive about this case, would be interested in hearing what you remember. Learned about this case while researching historic buildings (live in Soulard/Benton park Neighborhood in a building over 100 yrs old). The picture was very graphic and not all cleaned up (some of the ones you find on the web are much less graphic). Know a lot about the neighborhoods history, its graphic as well (kid being mulled by dog and killed, dead prostitute found in nearby park which a fellow co-worker servered on jury). Even through I work for the slmpd not able to find out much info (without suspect, cause number or name of victim very difficult). Due to my current employment and the history of neighborhood she was found would not discount your theory. As someone that was not from area and not around at time, very interested in what you remember.

tierneysain
10-27-2011, 10:44 AM
I know the area was a middle class white neighborhood in the maybe 40's and 50's My friends mom actually lived in the building. I know that at the time of the killing a white person would not have been able to drive or walk through the neighborhood without some unwanted attention. I remember a story about a man and woman who were in trouble for a missing child. The man went to prison and the Girlfriend either wouldn't talk or died later of drugs (don't quote me on that, rumors when I was a kid). This was not the Kansas City couple, this was a couple from Saint Louis. The story might be in this post somewhere. I do know over the years this area has been used as a dumping ground. Once again, little white girl killed in Bridgeton was dumped in North City, her killer was a black man, she was not killed in the area. This child could have come from Kinloch, Ferguson, Berkley, Jennings, Normandy. I am making a trip to City Library and try to find Original reports.

tierneysain
10-27-2011, 11:02 AM
I grew up as a kid in Ferguson 70's and 80's and anything north of Ferguson was considered North City and at the time I was 12 and up you did not go into those neighborhoods, if you did you were looking for trouble and would probably end up finding it. Going down North Hanley and heading towards U-City was probably not a good idea at the time, City is very Marginal, one street could be okay the next a whole new world. When I first started Driving I was chased down Chouteau by an angry mob. I just thought it was because I was white. I was generation of desegregation and knew alot of african american kids from the inner city and some very nice people, I guess my point is it would have had to be someone who could come and go in an all black neighborhood at the time and no one would think a thing. There is no way at the time a white man could have walked in there and not drawn attention to himself.

tierneysain
10-27-2011, 11:13 AM
The Whirl, was originally the Evening Whirl and the reporting early in the day was mugshots and very strong poetic stories using kinda toilet humor. Hard to explain. This was a paper started by I believe an African American in the area, the paper still exists I believe under another name. I am currently trying to research and see if I can get archives around the time frame. Very interesting paper you would probably want to see. As far as people in the area being evasive probably did not respond and still don't kindly to police. I always wonder if in the crime scene photos if the person is in the crowd they show around the building as police bring this poor kids body out. I have lived in South City now for about 20 years and can tell you the Schools have gotten worse, because they were even no good at the time I was in school in the county, so this child may never have even been on the radar, I know people now who are white and lived in the city and did not even go, couldn't afford private and did not want to attend city, terrible schools. Having said that, this kids someone gave birth to, she has to have cousin, grandparents, friends who remember someone never coming back, it is mind boggling.

tierneysain
10-27-2011, 11:43 AM
I found websites I want to post for the Evening Whirl, but don't know how. Got to the Believer.com and has a good history of the Evening Whirl or just google for Saint Louis and I believe you will find it. I also found a website for City Library has put almost all local papers online going back to the 1880's, will try my luck there. I am a little handicapped with this trying to post links, sorry.

mtrooper
10-27-2011, 12:04 PM
I have been lurking a while and I had a couple of thoughts.

Here is an article on Nikole Betterson (I know that she has been mentioned before, but does anyone know if she is actually excluded?):

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/1998/jun/15/a-double-suicide-deepens-20-year-mystery-of-vanish/

It appears that Nikole's Maternal grand parents are still around, why not get mitochondrial DNA to check against Jane Doe?

BTW-There is DNA in NAMUS for the Jane Doe. (probably already knew that, just wanted to mention it)

I am sure LE has done this, but what came of the rape kit from the sexual assult? I have to think there would be DNA some where on that poor girl.

On a possibly related side note. There was a brutal murder up in northern Michigan on January 19th, 1983. Some similarities. She was not beheaded.

http://www.isisdefense.us/Janette_Roberson.html

I also tend to agree that serial killers don't normally stray outside of one race. But on that note I am off to do some research.

ValerieKay
10-27-2011, 03:02 PM
I just read the whole thread, and something keeps popping in my head. Whenever I hear about a child this age being murdered or going missing in the St. Louis area, I think of Michael Devlin. I realize there is no evidence he ever killed anyone, but he is suspected of having abducted many more kids than we know about. Scott Kleeschulte and Bianca Piper to name two.
So if he did take those kids (and more), where are they now? Also, I know this is chilling to think about, but was he really going to keep Shawn Hornbeck and Ben Ownby around forever? My point is that I believe he has killed in the past and was planning to again. Maybe it's a long shot, but again this is immediately where my mind goes anytime something happens to a child in St. Louis. :(

tierneysain
10-27-2011, 03:03 PM
I am gonna look and see if there is anything on her being matched. I thought that one was kinda interesting also.

tierneysain
10-27-2011, 03:05 PM
I just read the whole thread, and something keeps popping in my head. Whenever I hear about a child this age being murdered or going missing in the St. Louis area, I think of Michael Devlin. I realize there is no evidence he ever killed anyone, but he is suspected of having abducted many more kids than we know about. Scott Kleeschulte and Bianca Piper to name two.
So if he did take those kids (and more), where are they now? Also, I know this is chilling to think about, but was he really going to keep Shawn Hornbeck and Ben Ownby around forever? My point is that I believe he has killed in the past and was planning to again. Maybe it's a long shot, but again this is immediately where my mind goes anytime something happens to a child in St. Louis. :(

I justed watched the documentary on Shawn Hornbeck and he did an interview and you are correct, he said Devlin took him to a secluded place to strangle him and Shawn talked him into letting him live. This kid is truly a survivor because he was meant to die according to his own words.

ValerieKay
10-27-2011, 03:12 PM
I forgot all about that. Also when Devlin abducted Ben Ownby, I think Shawn realized Ben was his replacement and Shawn wouldn't be there much longer.

CarlK90245
10-27-2011, 03:21 PM
Devlin was into pre-teen Caucasian males. To echo mtrooper's comments above - generally, predators have a "type" that they target, so in that respect, I can't see him targeting a pre-teen black female.

tierneysain
10-27-2011, 03:21 PM
I forgot all about that. Also when Devlin abducted Ben Ownby, I think Shawn realized Ben was his replacement and Shawn wouldn't be there much longer.

I watched it on Investigation Discovery, he was gonna kill him not long after he took Shawn, but again your right, he said once the other boy was taken he knew his time was close. The way he described it was what do you do with your old car once you get a new one. I cried through the whole documentary, truly heart wrenching.

tierneysain
10-27-2011, 03:23 PM
Devlin was into pre-teen Caucasian males. To echo mtrooper's comments above - generally, predators have a "type" that they target, so in that respect, I can't see him targeting a pre-teen black female.

He wouldn't have made it through that neighborhood without being spotted. Truly no whites there at the time. I agree.

scriptgirl
11-02-2011, 03:58 PM
This case is truly heartbreaking. So sad. I just don't know how no one has solved her identity yet

tierneysain
11-09-2011, 03:54 PM
I am going to call or go down to the Evening Whirl and see if they will run another story in the paper, maybe someone has died and there could be a person willing to speak up if they have a conscience (did I spell that right?).

tierneysain
11-10-2011, 01:28 PM
I found an article written last year and I cannot figure out how to post it. The article indicates the sweater the girl had on still had fold marks like it was brand new and just taken out of the package and she probably was not wearing that when she went missing, according to the article. I never heard this before and found it very interesting.

scriptgirl
11-10-2011, 02:20 PM
can they locate the manufacturer of the sweater?

Essbee
11-11-2011, 03:15 AM
I'm just joining this thread. Such a sad case.

Since there were signs of a sexual assault, I wonder whether a "rape kit" was collected. If so, has this been tested for a DNA match for a known sex offender?

scriptgirl
11-11-2011, 12:43 PM
If they did a rape kit, the results may have been destroyed or lost.

tierneysain
11-12-2011, 03:39 PM
The tag had been removed from the sweater prior to finding her. The detectives who where called to the scene indicated they knew immediately she had been sexually assaulted but they thought she was an older person, maybe a prostitute, until ME said she was young around 7 to 9 years of age, just tall for her age.

tierneysain
11-12-2011, 04:24 PM
I read that they were unable to salvage or save killer's DNA, then I read it was never there to retrieve. Not sure, what is the truth. There used to be a page by the detective who took over and it gave all kinds of info, I have given myself a headache trying to find it. And they say be careful what you put on line never goes away, I beg to differ. I will find this and have my kid help me post it.

tierneysain
11-12-2011, 04:27 PM
Can I post pictures from the crime scene, just the ones of the neighborhood people standing around. It is amazing the amount of people living in area and they describe it differently. Most buildings at the time were all in use and now they are not many left, maybe one or two. Yet nobody heard or seen anything. I just help rehab a house on Cabanne and all Mansions that are being purchased now. Maybe rehabbing someone will find something, I think someone in the neighborhood probably family.

tierneysain
11-12-2011, 05:00 PM
There was a suspect named Samuel Ivery, or Ivory, he was charged with beheading two women in E. Saint Louis, Illinois. I never knew his story. I just remember the beheadings and was floored. I don't even know if it was around the same time, guess I will have to look him up.

Ambercat
11-12-2011, 05:09 PM
There are some more articles about the girl at this link
http://officialcoldcaseinvestigations.com/showthread.php?t=4846
If I am reading them correctly, it looks like LE thought her living height was around 5'4" (maybe 4'10" was her height without her head then?). 5'4" is really tall for a ten year old girl, it seems like she would have been memorable by that alone, then when she wasn't around anymore people would take notice?

I think that must have been a typo or error on the part of that particular article, all the other articles I have found estimate her height as 4'10" or 4'11", a little over 4' without a head.

I found a very small article about Samuel Ivery, who would have been 26 when Jane Doe was found in 1983. http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/1992-10-26/news/9210260242_1_ivery-alabama-mobile-police

scriptgirl
11-13-2011, 04:21 PM
I wonder where he is now?

tierneysain
11-14-2011, 02:14 PM
I wonder where he is now?

If I am not mistaken, anyone correct me if I am wrong, but I think he was on Death Row and has been executed.

tierneysain
11-14-2011, 02:17 PM
There are some more articles about the girl at this link
http://officialcoldcaseinvestigations.com/showthread.php?t=4846
If I am reading them correctly, it looks like LE thought her living height was around 5'4" (maybe 4'10" was her height without her head then?). 5'4" is really tall for a ten year old girl, it seems like she would have been memorable by that alone, then when she wasn't around anymore people would take notice?

I think that must have been a typo or error on the part of that particular article, all the other articles I have found estimate her height as 4'10" or 4'11", a little over 4' without a head.

I found a very small article about Samuel Ivery, who would have been 26 when Jane Doe was found in 1983. http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/1992-10-26/news/9210260242_1_ivery-alabama-mobile-police

Yes, Yes, Yes, great information, this is what I was looking for yet different webpage, same info. This detective left no stone unturned. Wow, I would like to learn how you post these pages. Anyone just read through and will probably answer a lot of questions.

tierneysain
11-14-2011, 02:21 PM
I remember the story of the young boy being decapitated and his uncle being arrested that was just over the top and thought for sure it would end in this girl being a part of it.

LawAbidingCitizen
12-12-2011, 08:16 PM
As with other posters, I to believe the victim was older than 8-11 years of age. The two coats of red nail polish has been a point of interest for me regarding her age. I site a combination of the time period in which this occurred, Mid Western values, along with certain cultural propensities as to why I do not believe an 8-11 year old African American girl would have been wearing red nail polish.

I think the victim could have been as old as 13-17 years of age for the aforementioned reason as well as the victim's above average height in regards to most 8-11 yr old girls.

I also do not belive the victim was from out of state given the locale where her body was dumped and my believing removing her head to be indicative of the killer having some sort of personal ties to both the area and the victim.This case seems a perfect canidate for a Familial DNA search. It's controversial and not allowed in most states but I believe this would potentially solve this case.

STANDREID
12-12-2011, 09:40 PM
13-17 would have almost surely been post-pubescent. Were there indications of this?

CarlK90245
12-12-2011, 09:55 PM
Age estimation is normally pretty accurate for persons under 18. Bone development follows a very predictable course, and by noting the fusion of growth plates (or lack thereof) in various places on the body, a medical examiner should easily be able to accurately estimate age within about a 1-2 year (plus or minus) margin of accuracy.

If a ME mistook the age of an 8-11 year old child for 13-17, that would have been a pretty serious goof-up.

ynotdivein
12-12-2011, 10:55 PM
LawAbiding, I agree with you that she was not likely from out of state, or if so, not from far out of state (East St. Louis maybe?). I'm not with you yet on the familial involvement.

The evidence seems to indicate that she was killed and brutalized elsewhere than the building where she was found, due to lack of blood at the scene--but maybe not too far away?

In looking at some of the images in links posted on this thread, I noticed that the stains on the front of her yellow sweater indicate that the killer was probably right-handed.

There've got to be a lot more clues buried here than we realize.

LawAbidingCitizen
12-12-2011, 11:05 PM
I can't say that I have any more evidential reasons for believing the victim was older, other than the aforementioned ones that I stated in my initial post. I'll also add the LE on the scene initially thought the victim to be a prostitute along with the fact that medical examiners don't always get it right.

While I may certainly be wrong, I really would like to see the case solved. I'm less than conviced that the case will be solved by someone coming foward after all these years. Not sure about MO's laws regardin Familial DNA but I belive it would be monumental in solving this case.

Familial DNA use would prove even more controversial given there is no DNA from the perp but instead the vitcim's DNA would be enter into the state or local DNA database along with NDNAD. I think results would yeild a hit to a parent or sibling, leading to the victim being identified.

LawAbidingCitizen
12-12-2011, 11:20 PM
ynotdivein, Indeed we agree. It' very illogical that someone would have committed this murder out of state or any great distance, with no familarity with this area and then having chose to dump the victim there.

ynotdivein
12-13-2011, 01:03 AM
From 2004:

http://www.riverfronttimes.com/content/printVersion/117278/

"Buried within the Web site for the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children lies a page devoted to Jane Doe. Of the roughly 1,400 children profiled, she is the only child without a mug shot or artist's rendering. In its place appears the bloodied yellow sweater found on her body, along with information about skin color, weight and age.

It is on this Web site, and a handful of other databases devoted to missing children, that detective Tom Carroll continues to search for Jane Doe's identity. Police long ago abandoned the hopes of finding her head. Even if they were to find it, it would be nothing more than a skull, perhaps providing the girl's dental records, but little else.

It is in the ethereal world of the Internet that Carroll digs for clues. In six years of scrolling through thousands of profiles, he's identified a dozen missing girls who perhaps match the description of Jane Doe.

Carroll, 40, is the latest detective to head up the case from inside a department whose interior is little changed since the days of the girl's vicious death. Detectives are outfitted with the bare minimum: a desk, phone, filing cabinet. Fluorescent lights, a worn linoleum floor and half-finished coffee cups complete the scene. Save for the width of the cops' neckties, it might be the stage set for the 1970s sitcom Barney Miller.

Once Carroll comes across a possible match, he contacts the child's parents. Each phone call is another stab in the dark.

"It's to the point you really are walking on eggshells when you're calling these people," says the soft-spoken Carroll, who works the Jane Doe murder whenever he has a free hour or two. "People will let time heal a lot of things, and do you really want to gash that back open?"

The conversations are more or less the same. Carroll identifies himself and prefaces the discussion by saying he's not calling to report good news. He tells them St. Louis police have a deceased black female they can't identify. He then describes Jane Doe as best he can. Inevitably the strangers on the other end of the line begin quizzing him, wanting to know what color hair the victim had. What color were her eyes? Doesn't he have dental records?

After a while Carroll is forced to show his hand. He tells them the little girl's head was never discovered. That revelation comes followed by a long pause, but most parents of missing children sympathize with the cop. After so many years, they're looking for any answer, good or bad." (snip--more at link above)

Ambercat
12-13-2011, 02:44 AM
As with other posters, I to believe the victim was older than 8-11 years of age. The two coats of red nail polish has been a point of interest for me regarding her age. I site a combination of the time period in which this occurred, Mid Western values, along with certain cultural propensities as to why I do not believe an 8-11 year old African American girl would have been wearing red nail polish.

I think the victim could have been as old as 13-17 years of age for the aforementioned reason as well as the victim's above average height in regards to most 8-11 yr old girls.

I also do not belive the victim was from out of state given the locale where her body was dumped and my believing removing her head to be indicative of the killer having some sort of personal ties to both the area and the victim.This case seems a perfect canidate for a Familial DNA search. It's controversial and not allowed in most states but I believe this would potentially solve this case.

I think that this is an interesting premise about the nail polish, but am not sure I understand. For the sake of argument, my mom used to either paint my nails or let me paint my own when I was the estimated age of Jane Doe, this would have also been in the 1980s, but I am from California and a different ethnic background than Jane Doe (white, primarily German). Could you please explain this a little, I think there is something that I am not aware of (embarrassingly, I have been quite a few places but my only experiences with the American Midwest has been traveling through the airports in St. Louis and Chicago).

I would like to know if a familiar search for this UID has been suggested because I really believe if the girl is identified her killer(s) will be (or at least a lot closer to being) identified, too. I had thought that a possible reason why she hadn't been identified was that something in her description is off (age, race, who knows?).

Was LE ever able to find her body for exhumation? or do they have something that could be tested for DNA still on file from the original autopsy?

scriptgirl
12-13-2011, 12:49 PM
I am black and I agree with a young girl black girl not wearing nail polish at that age. It is seen as too grown for that age in our community and esp if she comes from a strong religious background or if she had been by older relatives, red would have been a no-no. It would have been associated with prostitutes.

CherBearSTL
12-13-2011, 01:21 PM
I am from the St. Louis area. I can say that the area where she was found is not somewhere that someone passing through St. Louis would find. There is not a doubt in my mind that it would be someone that lived in the area or someone who knew someone in the area. I suppose the girl could have come from Illinois, but she also could have come from a town anywhere in Missouri or Illinois, possibly even Kansas City.

I can't say for sure that someone her age wouldn't have worn fingernail polish. I would have worn it at her age. I understand what Scriptgirl is saying, but maybe we should consider the possibility that maybe she was adopted and her family wasn't black. I think that's a stretch, but anything's possible.

There were many housing projects located in St. Louis around that timeframe. Darst-Webbe was located downtown and was pretty notorious as being BAD. Cochran Gardens was occupied during that timeframe as well. It may be worth considering people that may have gone missing from those specifically if that's even possible.

tierneysain
12-13-2011, 04:58 PM
peabody courts: Pruitt Igoe, you name it. Pruitt Igoe was torn down in mid 1970's and displaced a lot of families.

CherBearSTL
12-13-2011, 05:02 PM
peabody courts: Pruitt Igoe, you name it. Pruitt Igoe was torn down in mid 1970's and displaced a lot of families.

Yes, I didn't include Pruitt Igoe because it wasn't around when this Doe was found....THANK GOODNESS!

I really believe that whomever killed her was from the area or visiting a relative in the area. This is not a random location. I don't know where the girl came from, but I suspect it wouldn't be far either. Maybe she was a foster child???

LawAbidingCitizen
12-13-2011, 10:05 PM
I was specifically speaking regarding red nail polish being worn by the victim, not nail polish in general. I grew up in the South and I believe the Mid West share alot of the same values as we do in the south. Especially a conservative state as MO.

I'm also Black with two female siblings. Couple all of the aforementioned with certain Baptist overtones, of which a lot of Blacks in the Mid West observe, along with cultural nuances, it being the early 80's.

I just took note of the red nail polish because it was mentioned in every article or forum that I read regarding this case and I thought how my mom would not have allowed my sisters to wear red nail polish at 8 to 11 years of age.

not_my_kids
12-17-2011, 01:48 PM
I found something odd today. I know that a lot of people refer to this little girl as Precious Doe, and today on Facebook, while searching for her page, I found a Facebook page that has no info regarding it, it is only named Precious Doe and has a picture of a little African American girl in a white dress. Absolutely nothing else. Could someone please go to this link and save the picture before it disappears. My computer is acting weird and not letting me save things. Please, it probably means nothing, but I would really, really love it if someone would save this pic for me, just in case.
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Precious-Doe/261021657242862?sk=wall

CarlK90245
12-17-2011, 02:39 PM
I found something odd today. I know that a lot of people refer to this little girl as Precious Doe, and today on Facebook, while searching for her page, I found a Facebook page that has no info regarding it, it is only named Precious Doe and has a picture of a little African American girl in a white dress. Absolutely nothing else. Could someone please go to this link and save the picture before it disappears. My computer is acting weird and not letting me save things. Please, it probably means nothing, but I would really, really love it if someone would save this pic for me, just in case.
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Precious-Doe/261021657242862?sk=wall


http://tammieoliver.com/precious_doe/computer_pic_first.jpghttp://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q697/Carlkopp90245/Missing%20Persons%20Photos/2065619860045078242S500x500Q851.jpg

This Precious Doe case was resolved back in 2005. She was identified as Erica Michelle Marie Green from Kansas City. She was also beheaded, but she was left in a wooded area. Her mother and stepfather were convicted of her murder.

Donjeta
12-17-2011, 02:56 PM
I was specifically speaking regarding red nail polish being worn by the victim, not nail polish in general. I grew up in the South and I believe the Mid West share alot of the same values as we do in the south. Especially a conservative state as MO.

I'm also Black with two female siblings. Couple all of the aforementioned with certain Baptist overtones, of which a lot of Blacks in the Mid West observe, along with cultural nuances, it being the early 80's.

I just took note of the red nail polish because it was mentioned in every article or forum that I read regarding this case and I thought how my mom would not have allowed my sisters to wear red nail polish at 8 to 11 years of age.

Her mom might have known nothing about it if she was a runaway or if the perp liked red nail polish on the victims.

Lizbetbathory
01-03-2012, 08:52 PM
im from st louis and this breaks my heart.... I wish we can find out who she is. How far from the loop was she found? Nail polish could have beenput on her by the person who did it.

ValerieKay
01-04-2012, 07:23 PM
Only a few blocks from the Loop.
As far as the red nail polish goes, I don't know if it really means anything. I grew up in rural Missouri, not far from St. Louis. My parents were pretty strict but I don't think they would have even thought twice about me wearing any color nail polish. Most girls I knew painted their nails, not on a regular basis but maybe at sleepovers and things like that. I know some parents would only let their younger (less than 11-12) daughters have painted nails if they removed it before going to school, but no specific color bans.
So, IMHO, I don't think it's anything to focus on too deeply unless we find more murdered girls with a common theme of red nail polish.

StephanieH
01-04-2012, 08:51 PM
Precious Doe was identified as Erica Green several years ago. Her mother and stepfather were caught in Oklahoma. They are both now in prison.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erica_Green

I was living in Kansas City when she was identified. It was such a sigh of relief and, yes, a bit of joy to finally be able to put a name on her headstone. In that case, they were just "passing through" Kansas City and left her body there. :( However, the case of the missing Rilya Wilson is still very much open.

Lizbetbathory
01-04-2012, 09:07 PM
I know that when I lived on the loop as a teen there were many houses and buildings that were abandonded and used as flop houses. I wonder if any homeless in the area might remember anything odd, its a long shot though

EveDallas
01-05-2012, 12:21 PM
What I found strange is that everybody is commenting about the nail polish, but to me and being that I live in New York, young girls some as young a five do wear nail polish. But to get back to the case, could she have come into the country illegally or if she came with some other family or family member ( the parents sending her to the US for a better life).

Ambercat
06-16-2012, 08:47 PM
Sadly, it looks like they weren't able to exhume her because they don't know where she's buried. Her headstone wasn't on the right plot.

http://www.ksdk.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=192676

I can't find anymore articles saying they've located her remains. If anyone local knows if they've found her yet, please post. Thanks!

Never Forgotten.

They must have found her, because on NamUs her DNA is available at the St. Louis Metropolitan Police Department and the FBI.

I was looking on NamUs to see if her head could have been found in another jurisdiction and not linked to her. I came up with two possibilities, but neither seemed likely --

https://identifyus.org/en/cases/8850

https://identifyus.org/en/cases/9894

Also, this is the skull mentioned in the news articles which was determined not to be hers --
https://identifyus.org/en/cases/9271

tierneysain
08-04-2012, 09:48 PM
I have been going to Clayton Library, would anyone be interested in me posting the original news paper articles. I don't know what they say, but will get them.

tierneysain
08-05-2012, 03:25 PM
I wanted to send a message to anyone on here, if there is any particular case for MO that you want me to look up while I am at the Library tomorrow, please send me a PM with dates and any info and I will be more than happy to get them.

tierneysain
08-08-2012, 04:54 PM
Okay, I've got the Original Articles two from the St.Louis Globe Democrat and One from the St.Louis Post Dispatch. I'm trying to load but having problems, help. I can maybe email them to someone who knows. They are TIF I don't know how to change, but will try.

tierneysain
08-08-2012, 08:00 PM
The one thing I notice while searching for this in the microfilm department is the amount of People released from prison for over crowding, almost everyday there were release notices. Also, so many kids taken into the foster system, Missouri and Illinois because of neglect. Ugghhhhh.

Ambercat
11-18-2012, 12:09 AM
:bump: I wonder if Telethia R. Good has been compared to the unidentified little girl -- she would be 11 or 12 in February 1983?
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/images/TGood.jpg
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/g/good_telethia.html
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/3028dfmd.html
The distance between Baltimore and St. Louis might make this unlikely. Her family has ties to New Jersey and Virginia, there is no mention of any locations further west.

Ozark~Mnt~Miss
11-18-2012, 01:26 AM
As I was reading this thread, a thought occurred to me.....

I will address this question to those of you who are familiar with this case.

Is it possible that this Jane Doe could be a sibling of Erika or are the dates too far apart for this possibility; or even geographically, were the parents in the metro area of St. Louis?

tatertot
11-18-2012, 02:47 AM
Ozark~Mnt~Miss, IMHO there is probably no connection aside from the decapitation. Per the article linked below, Erica was three at the time of her death in 2001, so she was probably born around 1998. Yellow Sweater Jane Doe would have been born between 1972 and 1975 if she was 8-11 years old in 1983. While it's not impossible to have siblings who are 20+ years apart in age, the article also stated Erica's mother was 30 and her stepfather was 25 in 2005. They were entirely too young to be involved in Jane Doe's case.

http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20147633,00.html

not_my_kids
11-18-2012, 11:48 AM
I thought I would post this, as I had not seen this picture before.

From Namus: https://identifyus.org/en/cases/3199

I am not sure if the link will go right where I want it to, so if it doesn't, flip to the pictures section....The middle picture shows the investigators at the time holding up the sweater that was later lost. It gives a much better idea of the size of the sweater, as opposed to the picture of it just laying on a table. It looks large, not a child's size, really.

There are also no rule-outs listed on Namus. Would I call the medical examiner or the detective about getting them listed?

not_my_kids
11-18-2012, 12:44 PM
I went back through Namus, looking for something new, and found a few missing that I hadn't directly addressed before.

Yolanda Williams:
I am not sure whether I have discussed her before or not. When Jane Doe was found her weight was estimated at 70lbs. and her height was estimated at 4'10. Yolanda would have been about 13 in 1983, putting her a little above the age range, but I have my doubts about Jane Doe's age. Yolanda and three other kids went missing from Compton, CA after a housefire where Yolanda's mother was later found dead. At the time she disappeared, Yolanda was 4 feet tall and weighed 55 lbs. I will have to look and see if I have already ruled her out.
https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/6807/9/

One that I hadn't seen before or have I seen mentioned, unless I missed her...
Sherise Magee
She was only a year old in 1975 when she went missing from Clark Co. NV, but that would have made her about 8 years old in 1983. She was taken by a family member, and Det. Carroll believes that Jane Doe was killed by family. Sherise was only 3 feet tall and 27 lbs when she was abducted, but it's hard to predict how much someone will change between the ages of 1 and 8. There also is not a DNA sample on file yet (I think they are still in the testing stages) for Sherise.
https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/4909/10/

Just some ideas that I was working on. I am not sure about Yolanda, but Sherise's case is all new to me, so I thought I would post it here, especially since I can't recall her name being on the rule out list I got from the Detective.

LawAbidingCitizen
12-14-2012, 02:53 AM
LawAbiding, I agree with you that she was not likely from out of state, or if so, not from far out of state (East St. Louis maybe?). I'm not with you yet on the familial involvement.

The evidence seems to indicate that she was killed and brutalized elsewhere than the building where she was found, due to lack of blood at the scene--but maybe not too far away?

In looking at some of the images in links posted on this thread, I noticed that the stains on the front of her yellow sweater indicate that the killer was probably right-handed.

There've got to be a lot more clues buried here than we realize.

My thought of using Familial DNA is even more farfetched, being that I propose using the unidentified VICTIM'S DNA to search for a potential match with the father, mother or a sibling having a criminal history where DNA has been taken. As of now Familial DNA using the "traditional method" is still not allowed use in most states so "my method" is certainly farfetched to say the least.

Ambercat
12-14-2012, 07:48 PM
My thought of using Familial DNA is even more farfetched, being that I propose using the unidentified VICTIM'S DNA to search for a potential match with the father, mother or a sibling having a criminal history where DNA has been taken. As of now Familial DNA using the "traditional method" is still not allowed use in most states so "my method" is certainly farfetched to say the least.

I know in California that it is possible to get an exception (this is how Lonnie David Franklin Jr. was caught, because his son was in the database. I wish they would do this for EAR-ONS; for a while they said they were looking into it. Unless they did and nothing came of it?) but it is difficult. I wonder if you could get an exception in Missouri? It would really be worth it to find out who this girl is; I have a feeling if she is identified, her killer will probably be identified as well.

On a separate note, I thought, further back in the thread that Yolanda Williams had been ruled out (I'm not sure how). I could be wrong about this, though.

LawAbidingCitizen
12-15-2012, 01:14 AM
I know in California that it is possible to get an exception (this is how Lonnie David Franklin Jr. was caught, because his son was in the database. I wish they would do this for EAR-ONS; for a while they said they were looking into it. Unless they did and nothing came of it?) but it is difficult. I wonder if you could get an exception in Missouri? It would really be worth it to find out who this girl is; I have a feeling if she is identified, her killer will probably be identified as well.


I remember the Lonnie David Franklin Jr. case, aka "The Grim Sleeper" case being featured on a few episodes of America's Most Wanted over the years. When I read it was solved using Familial DNA I was shocked. I'm not sure if there's an instance where a unidentified victim's DNA has been used in a Familial DNA search in the U.S. or elsewhere? I agree that a Familial DNA search could help solve this case and many many others.

carbuff
12-15-2012, 01:37 PM
I remember the Lonnie David Franklin Jr. case, aka "The Grim Sleeper" case being featured on a few episodes of America's Most Wanted over the years. When I read it was solved using Familial DNA I was shocked. I'm not sure if there's an instance where a unidentified victim's DNA has been used in a Familial DNA search in the U.S. or elsewhere? I agree that a Familial DNA search could help solve this case and many many others.

It took about a year of planning, court approvals, and other procedural roadblocks to get the permissions needed to run the familial DNA for the Gril Sleeper. The possibilities for privacy abuse are immense.

misslindsay
12-23-2012, 09:46 AM
I see it's being said upthread that the body was discovered in University City, not St. Louis city. This is incorrect. I think some people are confused as Clemens Ave is right off of Delmar, a street that runs through all of U City, but 5635 Clemens is in St. Louis city. It's not U City until you cross Skinker on Delmar -- this location is north of U City and is definitely in St. Louis.

Azriell
03-04-2013, 05:32 PM
Just ran across this article. :(

https://www.stlbeacon.org/#!/content/29664/unsolved_murder_jane_doe?coverpage=2830

"On the 30th anniversary of one of the most baffling, horrendous and bizarre crimes in the history of the St. Louis Police Department, the case has taken on a new sordid detail.

The grave of the unidentified, headless girl who was murdered in 1983 can't be found in the abandoned, derelict Washington Park Cemetery near Interstate 70 and Lambert Airport."

Kaliste
03-04-2013, 05:57 PM
Just ran across this article. :(

https://www.stlbeacon.org/#!/content/29664/unsolved_murder_jane_doe?coverpage=2830

"On the 30th anniversary of one of the most baffling, horrendous and bizarre crimes in the history of the St. Louis Police Department, the case has taken on a new sordid detail.

The grave of the unidentified, headless girl who was murdered in 1983 can't be found in the abandoned, derelict Washington Park Cemetery near Interstate 70 and Lambert Airport."

This poor little girl. I'm hopeful that once the remains are recovered and DNA is taken she will get her name back.

Ms Suzanne
03-04-2013, 06:16 PM
This is another little unidentified girl I have followed very closely too.What do they mean they can't find her grave site?I'm confused.This is the picture I had for her head stone.I don't remember where I got it.I'm sure other people must have this picture too.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v247/suzannec4444/LittleJaneDoes1983MissourisTombston.gif

Ms Suzanne
03-04-2013, 07:01 PM
They say in this article they did exhume her body or was going to? The article says they visited the grave site.

http://z10.invisionfree.com/usedtobedoe/index.php?showtopic=53910

taramarie
03-06-2013, 07:17 PM
All of these cases completely break my heart, but this case makes every single little cell in my body feel sick. I want so badly for this little girl to get her name back and for her disgusting monster of a murderer to be brought to justice. Unfortunately, I just don't know if either of these things will ever happen and that makes this entire case feel so much worse.

tatertot
03-07-2013, 07:38 AM
Ms Suzanne, I'm confused as well. The main Porchlight thread for her:

http://z10.invisionfree.com/usedtobedoe/index.php?showtopic=6705&st=0&#last

The news article in post #3 mentions she was buried "on the southern side" of the cemetery, and that months later schoolchildren raised money to buy her a tombstone.

Post #4 mentions a "half-dozen news reporters" present at the funeral. Surely a few photos must have been taken and perhaps the newspapers' archives might still contain some of these photos, whether they were actually published or not?

Later in this same article, it is stated that memorials were left at the graveside and homicide detective Joe Burgoon videotaped the location of the grave:

Burgoon years ago videotaped the location of Jane Doe's grave for police records, afraid that when he died, she would be lost forever amid the tangled shrubbery.

So if her grave cannot be found, was the headstone stolen or moved sometime after the photo was taken? And where is Joe Burgoon's videotape documenting the location?

tatertot
03-18-2013, 04:33 PM
This article explains it well:

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/new-hope-in-a--year-old-case-of-a/article_ef7aca67-2f9f-5c76-9516-4285802f338f.html

The donated headstone was put on the wrong grave in 1984, and in the 1980s workers began burying bodies on top of each other.

On the bright side, some really good-hearted people are manning the search to find her gravesite.

taramarie
03-18-2013, 06:00 PM
How sad. I hope they find her & that eventually she can rest in peace. Poor little angel.

ynotdivein
03-22-2013, 07:34 AM
New efforts to locate her...

Wash U. researchers help look for slain girl's grave (http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/washington-university-researchers-help-look-for-slain-child-s-grave/article_a3208928-56ec-551e-b654-447a5b350ba1.html)

“<snip> All of the investigators that have worked on this case through the years have always thought if we could identify her, we could find her killer,” Fox said, as Stylianou’s team trudged through decades of overgrown brush nearby.

About three years ago, Graham authorized exhumation of the girl so her body could be moved to the Garden of Innocents, at Calvary Cemetery. Three bodies were found in caskets near her marker, but none was hers. <snip>"

WholeLottaRosie
03-22-2013, 03:10 PM
Such a sad case. I hope this all leads to learning her identity and who killed her.

Ambercat
04-13-2013, 01:51 AM
NamUs UP #9894 was recently revised on NamUs and every time I see the page for the unidentified partial skull, I can't help but wonder if there is a connection between the skull and this UID. I know that the timing is off and race and gender are not known, but the age estimate is almost spot on (8 to 12 years old). 5635 Clemens Ave in St. Louis is about 413 miles from Centreville (NamUs didn't specify where in St. Joseph County the skull was found in, so I calculated the distance on Yahoo Maps from the county seat, Centreville, MI).

https://identifyus.org/en/cases/9894

DNA is available, but hasn't been submitted yet.

JillyNJ
04-13-2013, 04:38 PM
How ridiculous to mail the sweater to a psychic. Now the only key piece of evidence is gone forever. That sweater could have the killers DNA on it! This little girl deserved better, all around from her sweater being mailed like it was nothing to her grave not being located. I really hope the future of criminology and law enforcement is brighter for other innocent children/adults who fall victim.

summer_breeze
06-17-2013, 09:49 AM
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/search-for-girl-s-missing-body-in-st-louis-cold/article_266e23ef-c09e-5d36-bdd4-db7090e4f461.html

14 minutes ago • By Christine Byers

BERKELEY • Authorities began digging today at an overgrown cemetery near Lambert-St. Louis International Airport in an effort to find the body of an unidentified girl killed and beheaded in an unsolved case 30 years ago.

JudysSisterMaureen
06-17-2013, 10:54 AM
http://fox2now.com/2013/06/17/body-of-decapitated-girl-in-30-year-old-case-to-be-exhumed/

I know this is the missing forum - but, in case you aren't familiar with this case (I was not!) -- seems like a logical place to post this info, hope to get it into the hands of someone who might be looking for a little African American girl - wearing nothing but a yellow shirt - found, decapitated with her hands tied behind her back - in 1983.

God rest her soul.

Laughing
06-17-2013, 12:29 PM
Additional article here:

http://fox2now.com/2013/06/17/body-of-decapitated-girl-in-30-year-old-case-to-be-exhumed/

ynotdivein
06-18-2013, 05:32 PM
Slain girl's remains found as part of 30-year-old murder investigation (http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/slain-girl-s-remains-found-as-part-of--year/article_266e23ef-c09e-5d36-bdd4-db7090e4f461.html)

"BERKELEY • The steady pace of a backhoe peeling back layers of dirt in a cemetery here Monday all but ceased with the discovery of a simple staple."

Well-written piece from today's STL Post-Dispatch. Thank god they found her... Now, to pray that the technological advances of the last 30 years will help them give her back her name.

Cubby
06-18-2013, 11:36 PM
I'm so glad they finally found the correct remains! Praying that DNA can shed some light on who she is and where she may have come from.

azure
06-19-2013, 12:04 AM
I'm so glad they're exhuming her remains! A high school friend's wife is spearheading the efforts, so I get to hear about it on FB. Pretty cool!

A big thank you to all involved in giving this gal her name back!

alreetlike
06-19-2013, 07:58 AM
So pleased they've managed to find her. I read about this today via the Facebook page for the Grateful Doe and I was certain I recalled the case. Now I've seen the thread again I remember going through it a month or two back. I hope this can lead to some answers.

Roselvr
06-21-2013, 07:33 PM
My thought of using Familial DNA is even more farfetched, being that I propose using the unidentified VICTIM'S DNA to search for a potential match with the father, mother or a sibling having a criminal history where DNA has been taken. As of now Familial DNA using the "traditional method" is still not allowed use in most states so "my method" is certainly farfetched to say the least.

I don't see why they do not take her DNA & send it to a genealogy site to see if there are any relatives already in the database. 23andme is looking to reach 1 million samples of DNA in the next year IIRC. I suggested it to someone from NamUs; so I'm crossing my fingers.

mysteriew
06-21-2013, 10:10 PM
For Abby Stylianou, a research associate with Washington University, it was a particularly emotional conclusion to her lab's latest project.

snip....Charles Fuchs, Stylianou's uncle, alerted his niece to the story, knowing that she does relevant research at Wash. U.

And it was personal, in a way. The case decades ago unfolded just a few blocks from where her parents were living at the time -- and they still remember it today.
http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/dailyrft/2013/06/st_louis_jane_doe_decapitated.php?ref=trending

carbuff
06-22-2013, 01:10 PM
I don't see why they do not take her DNA & send it to a genealogy site to see if there are any relatives already in the database. 23andme is looking to reach 1 million samples of DNA in the next year IIRC. I suggested it to someone from NamUs; so I'm crossing my fingers.

Depending on your state, it's not necessarily legal to do that. If all you're looking for is identity, probably okay. If there's a question of a crime, not so much.

mikkismom
06-23-2013, 09:51 PM
St. Louis police exhume body of mystery 11-year-old girl who was decapitated in 1983 as they attempt to finally identify her

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2346997/St-Louis-police-exhume-body-mystery-11-year-old-girl-decapitated-1983-attempt-finally-identify-her.html#ixzz2X5unFMAn
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windstorm
08-13-2013, 11:42 AM
I've tried to post this a few times, but when I hit "post" after typing it all out, I am logged out :( So, I'll make this one quick.

What if....this little girl lived with her mother or grandmother in another state and that particular person passed away, so the little girl was given to her next of kin? Possibly her biological father, an uncle, older brother, etc.

I think the person granted custody (the "perp") lived in St. Louis and specifically in that neighborhood. I do think whoever did this was very familiar with the area.

Let's say the perp went to whatever state the little girl lived in and took custody of her and brought her back to St. Louis. Soon afterward, he sexually assaulted her, then panicked because he was afraid she would say something, so he killed her. Then, panicked again, because he knew she could be traced back to him, so he decapitated her. **Notice she was lying face down in the crime scene photos, so I think it's entirely possible to have cut her head off the way it was if she were laying face down when it was done. Especially with a larger man standing over her and bending down....or from behind. She was well nourished and had fingernail polish on, so maybe she had only been with him a day or two?

This is the only theory I can come up with where no one has ever missed her or looked for her. Her former classmates, friends, neighbors, etc. would probably just assume she was well and good with her next of kin in St. Louis.

How big an undertaking would it be to search (and how would you search) deaths in 1983 where next of kin took custody of an 8-11 year old girl. (however, I think it's possible she is a little bit older).

Thoughts?

Sue Doe Nimm
09-21-2013, 10:18 PM
It's not the most recent of articles, but no one else has posted it so I figured I'd share:

https://www.stlbeacon.org/#!/content/29664/unsolved_murder_jane_doe

Four gravediggers in muddy overalls were pallbearers for the 5-minute funeral service.

That sentence kills me. In my lifetime, I want to see this little girl to get her name back and for her killer to receive punishment for the horrible things he did to her.

Roselvr
09-22-2013, 09:12 AM
It's not the most recent of articles, but no one else has posted it so I figured I'd share:

https://www.stlbeacon.org/#!/content/29664/unsolved_murder_jane_doe

Four gravediggers in muddy overalls were pallbearers for the 5-minute funeral service.

That sentence kills me. In my lifetime, I want to see this little girl to get her name back and for her killer to receive punishment for the horrible things he did to her.

Losing her grave also ripped my heart out. Her story is heart breaking.
Sounds like they know who killed her; too bad he would not confess.

NamUs (https://identifyus.org/en/cases/3199) DNA Sample submitted - Tests complete
I really hope they tried to add DNA to 23andme ancestry database. It may end up giving them cousins names.

In 2005, St. Louis homicide detective Tom Carroll went to the state prison at Bonne Terre to visit a man on Death Row. Carroll said he hoped and prayed that a twice-condemned killer would confess to the Jane Doe case before his execution by the state.

Vernon Brown was facing execution for strangling 9-year-old Janet Perkins in St. Louis in 1986. He also was under a separate death sentence for killing Synetta Ford, 19, in St. Louis in 1985; her head was nearly severed with a large knife.

In addition, Brown was charged in Indiana was the killing of a 9-year-old girl in 1980; she was tied, beaten, sexually assaulted and strangled.

"Personally, I believe he did it," Carroll said of Brown at the time.

"It was his style, tying up little girls," Carroll had said. "How many child killers are there?"

Carroll's theory was that Jane Doe was the daughter of one of Brown's wives or girlfriends.

But Brown refused to talk to Carroll. "He was very cold. He was devoid of emotion," Carroll said at the time. After calmly watching the movie "Platoon" in his prison cell, Brown was given a lethal injection on May 18, 2005.

Medea2
10-06-2013, 12:36 AM
How big an undertaking would it be to search (and how would you search) deaths in 1983 where next of kin took custody of an 8-11 year old girl. (however, I think it's possible she is a little bit older).

Thoughts?

I don't remember where I read this but the police did extensive work in the schools in many states to spot any girl who would have stop going to school or changed school suddenly, that kind of thing. They worked every suspect case until they found the maching kid. It gaves nothing at all, no kid that was unaccounted for. That is what is very weird in this case: a kid that age leaves traces at school, the doctor, the dentist, her friends, whatever but nothing at all surfaced. Maybe she was kept apart from the begining, like some other kidnaped children.

windstorm
10-06-2013, 12:49 AM
I don't remember where I read this but the police did extensive work in the schools in many states to spot any girl who would have stop going to school or changed school suddenly, that kind of thing. They worked every suspect case until they found the maching kid. It gaves nothing at all, no kid that was unaccounted for. That is what is very weird in this case: a kid that age leaves traces at school, the doctor, the dentist, her friends, whatever but nothing at all surfaced. Maybe she was kept apart from the begining, like some other kidnaped children.

I remember reading that, but IIRC they searched schools within a certain radius of St. Louis (like 100 miles or something). She could have been from anywhere. California, Washington, Maine, Florida...even Alaska or Hawaii.

Roselvr
10-06-2013, 09:53 AM
Her full report is available via Google cache (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:k_-XcWRuwrUJ:https://identifyus.org/cases/full_report/3199+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us) Save it as HTML file. Her profile has already been updated in Google cache; so anyone needing the info; save the full report before google crawls again.

Attached as PDF

Medea2
10-06-2013, 03:40 PM
I remember reading that, but IIRC they searched schools within a certain radius of St. Louis (like 100 miles or something). She could have been from anywhere. California, Washington, Maine, Florida...even Alaska or Hawaii.

I think they did more extensive searches in the "black community" throught papers, magasines, schools bulletin, etc.

I am not sure but I think there was something suggesting she was from the St-Louis area, some later analisys of pollen or that kind of stuff. (sorry if I am not precise I have read a lot of things and it was a while.)

And of course, the fact the head was missing greatly complicates things. Maybe if there was a photo or portrait, someone would have recognised her. I have always wondered if the head was taken to prevent identification or if it was some kind of trophy. Maybe if someday there is a match for a skull, it will help to identifie her.

Roselvr
10-08-2013, 09:24 AM
I hope that a sibling comes forward for this little girl too!

Identified! NY - Bronx, "Baby Hope" HispFem 50UFNY, 3-5, In Beverage Cooler, July'91

Police Identify Mother of "Baby Hope," Toddler Found in Cooler 22 Years Ago: Official (http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Baby-Hope-Mother-Identified-New-York-1991-226848821.html?_osource=SocialFlowTwt_NYBrand)

I thought I would post this, as I had not seen this picture before.

From Namus: https://identifyus.org/en/cases/3199

I am not sure if the link will go right where I want it to, so if it doesn't, flip to the pictures section....The middle picture shows the investigators at the time holding up the sweater that was later lost. It gives a much better idea of the size of the sweater, as opposed to the picture of it just laying on a table. It looks large, not a child's size, really.

There are also no rule-outs listed on Namus. Would I call the medical examiner or the detective about getting them listed?

Shame they touched the sweater without gloves. Would be nice if it pops up in a storage shed or attic.

Both articles are attached

Spurser
10-08-2013, 11:27 AM
I feel very sad for this little girl. I believe that if a little white girl had been found dead with her head missing, it would have been all over the news. The only reason I've heard of this case is because I frequent WS and the Doe Network.

I can remember as a kid hearing about Adam Walsh and Jacob Wetterling, etc. Never had I heard of this case until I discovered WS.

windstorm
10-08-2013, 03:08 PM
I feel very sad for this little girl. I believe that if a little white girl had been found dead with her head missing, it would have been all over the news. The only reason I've heard of this case is because I frequent WS and the Doe Network.

I can remember as a kid hearing about Adam Walsh and Jacob Wetterling, etc. Never had I heard of this case until I discovered WS.

I'm sorry you feel that way. I don't agree with you though. I've heard about this case since it happened and I don't live near St. Louis and I'm white. I have read countless articles and reports on the detectives in this case and they are heart wrenching. The detectives were white, too. The lead detective who continued to work on this case well after his retirement is said to have told his daughter on his deathbed that finally, he will meet little Jane Doe and know what happened to her.

Terrib11
10-08-2013, 03:16 PM
I feel very sad for this little girl. I believe that if a little white girl had been found dead with her head missing, it would have been all over the news. The only reason I've heard of this case is because I frequent WS and the Doe Network.

I can remember as a kid hearing about Adam Walsh and Jacob Wetterling, etc. Never had I heard of this case until I discovered WS.

I'm from St. Louis and this case hit everyone hard. It has been worked very dilligently without regard to race and put in the local news at every given chance.

I remember when it happend and felt absolutely horrible. I never thought it would go this long without being solved.

Spurser
10-09-2013, 09:20 AM
I didn't mean that the people involved in the investigation were not 100% committed. It was obvious from all that I have read on these sites how much they cared. I'm just saying that this case never made national news to the extent of Adam Walsh, etc. At least not in my area. Not that it matters, but since I brought up the race issue, I should mention that I'm white.

Medea2
10-15-2013, 10:25 PM
I have been thinking about this case for a long time and there are a lot of questions that I found very troubling. I mean, many details in that crime seem very peculiar. I just thought I could share them here to see if anyone have other ideas/infos.

-where was the crime scene (since where she was found was just the dumping ground)? I am not a specialist, but I would think a beheading means a lot of blood and mess.
-why dump the body where it would be easily found but keep the head? why not hide the whole body? Was it meant as a kind of message to a few people who would recognise her anyway?
-where is the head? what could have happened of it? was it destroyed, kept as a trophy, dumped somewhere else? If the goal was to conceal her identity, getting rid of the head could have been a big risk.
-where was the rest of her clothing? it was winter, she possibly had a lot of cloaths on. How was it disposed of? why leave only the yellow shirt? was it put back after her murder? why go to the trouble of cutting the label?
-where is the knife used to cut the head?
-how was the body moved to that house? Could the killer really live nearby and take such a risk? He could have been recognised. Could he have find that place by chance? Maybe he knew the place and drive there from far of.

STANDREID
10-15-2013, 10:44 PM
I apologize if this is somewhere in this thread but when was the last time the building was checked and the victim was not there? If I recall, the men were in the derelict structure looking for scrap metal so I wonder if someone else might have been in there earlier for the same reason or if some children might have played in there on an earlier date when on body wasn't there.