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JimPence
04-02-2006, 07:02 PM
Hi WS'ers,

I'm popping in from the world of lurkdom and book promotion to see what you all have to say about the "bloody sock". I'm sure this has probably been discussed in detail (perhaps many times), so if this rehashes an old thread, just point me in the right direction and I'll go read it.

First off, I'm approaching this as someone who is convinced of Darlie's guilt. I don't see the sock as something that demonstrates her innocence.

However, given the narrow timeline between the stabbings and the boys' deaths, the sock would need to have been planted quickly.

Would Darlie have had the time to stab the boys, plant the sock, clean up the blood in the kitchen, and do the 911 call all by herself? Or would she have needed an accomplice--at least in the cover-up?

What do you think?

Jim

Goody
04-03-2006, 02:35 AM
Hi WS'ers,

I'm popping in from the world of lurkdom and book promotion to see what you all have to say about the "bloody sock". I'm sure this has probably been discussed in detail (perhaps many times), so if this rehashes an old thread, just point me in the right direction and I'll go read it.

First off, I'm approaching this as someone who is convinced of Darlie's guilt. I don't see the sock as something that demonstrates her innocence.

However, given the narrow timeline between the stabbings and the boys' deaths, the sock would need to have been planted quickly.

Would Darlie have had the time to stab the boys, plant the sock, clean up the blood in the kitchen, and do the 911 call all by herself? Or would she have needed an accomplice--at least in the cover-up?

What do you think?

Jim
Jim, have you ever considered the possibility that the boys were not stabbed at the same time?

Desilu
04-03-2006, 01:45 PM
I've often wondered if Darin was the one who dropped that sock.

britgirl
04-03-2006, 01:56 PM
I've often wondered if Darin was the one who dropped that sock.
I've considered that too...I believe the sock was found lying near to a storm drain? Maybe he threw some incriminating items of clothing down there and the sock missed...

britgirl
04-03-2006, 02:02 PM
Jim, have you ever considered the possibility that the boys were not stabbed at the same time?
Hi Goody. Do you think she stabbed Devon first and then discarded the sock, then Damon when she returned to the house? After which she inflicted her own injuries...which would explain why her blood wasn't found outside the house- something her supporters are keen to jump on, I believe, when they say she can't have "planted" the sock...

The sock thing really intrigues me. I've been wondering about Darin's involvement in the cover-up but I hadn't considered she may have discarded it between killing her boys...

I think about this case far too much!

justice2
04-03-2006, 04:15 PM
I've considered that too...I believe the sock was found lying near to a storm drain? Maybe he threw some incriminating items of clothing down there and the sock missed...I'm leaning that way too.

It had light transfer stains on it which could have been picked up from the carpet. But I'm open on whether the stains were deliberate or not.

I also think he did it when Darlie was on the phone to 911. I think Darlie was yelling at him out the front door (not Karen). I think that it is the sound that partially woke the neighbor across the street that has his windows open while he slept.

JimPence
04-03-2006, 09:45 PM
Jim, have you ever considered the possibility that the boys were not stabbed at the same time?
Actually, Goody, I hadn't. I'd always thought of this as a rage killing, mostly because it's still difficult for me to wrap my mind around anybody doing such an horrific thing to two innocent children intentionally. And if it was a rage killing, it would likely have happened quickly, one after the other.

But then, there's the sock.

If the boys were deep sleepers (and that's definitely possible -- you could explode a bomb by my son's bed and he wouldn't raise an eyebrow), I can see her being able to kill one, then plant the sock, then kill the other. If that's the case, it would definitely rule out a rage killing. It was cold and calculating.

The thought makes me shudder.

Jim

Goody
04-03-2006, 10:45 PM
I've considered that too...I believe the sock was found lying near to a storm drain? Maybe he threw some incriminating items of clothing down there and the sock missed...
Bingo!

Goody
04-03-2006, 11:07 PM
Hi Goody. Do you think she stabbed Devon first and then discarded the sock, then Damon when she returned to the house?
No. She could not have done it then because a dab of Damon's blood was on the sock, too.

After which she inflicted her own injuries...which would explain why her blood wasn't found outside the house- something her supporters are keen to jump on, I believe, when they say she can't have "planted" the sock...
I used to think she could have controlled her blood loss to make the sockf run, but I think the crime scene defies that. So I have pretty much settled on someone else doing the sock run. It is the only truly plausible way that the sock ended up where it did without any traces of blood being found between it and the crime scene.

The sock thing really intrigues me. I've been wondering about Darin's involvement in the cover-up but I hadn't considered she may have discarded it between killing her boys...

I think about this case far too much!
We all do! hahahahaha. I am one of those folks who do not believe Darin could have decided in 5 minutes to abandon his normal parental shock and outrage and grief over the brutality in the way they were murdered and cover up for her. He would almost have say, "O, well, the beat goes on." I don't buy it for a minute. He needed time to come to terms with it and decide what to do about it. So he was either in on it from the very beginning and it was cold and calculating and premeditated. Or something went extremely out of control in one of their dramatic (BS) fights over money and Devon ended up dead; then suddenly they had to deal with that. I think Damon probably slept thru the first attack (for the same reasons Jim gave) and that Darin made a timely run down the alley to discard the items they didn't want police to find. That sock just fell by the wayside. I think the FBI profiler was correct in reasons why a planted sock would have been closer to crime than this one was found. And I personally believe if they had planted it, it would have had much more blood on it. Perps planting evidence tend to overdo.

If this crime was not premeditated, then emotions must have overflowed uncontrollably and caused one of them, probably Darlie to kill Devon, and I am guessing they spent some time coming to terms with it and how they could get out of it. Whatever the step by step is, I think Darin was onboard before police arrived. Unless the blood on his pants prove otherwise, I think he had more invested in the crime than just covering up for Darlie. If he didn't, he would have divorced her by now and tried to get on with his life. I believe he loved her at the time, but I don't believe he does not, no matter what role he played, so the fact that he does not make moves to get on with his life is very, very suspicious to me. Shoot, even Terry Schiavo's husband didn't wait that long, and Rusty Yates has remarried as well. Darin has to be dating at the very least but somehow manages to keep it quiet and I mean quiet. Makes my sniffer twitch.

Goody
04-03-2006, 11:11 PM
I'm leaning that way too.

It had light transfer stains on it which could have been picked up from the carpet. But I'm open on whether the stains were deliberate or not.

I also think he did it when Darlie was on the phone to 911. I think Darlie was yelling at him out the front door (not Karen). I think that it is the sound that partially woke the neighbor across the street that has his windows open while he slept.
I have always believed she was yelling for Darin, too, but I think someone once pointed out it doesn't line up with the 911 tape. I have never tried to see if it does though.

I mean, why would anyone yell out their front door in the middle of the night for a neighbor when they know the air unit is on, all windows closed, and there is zero chance of being heard. That "Karen!" is out of place.

Goody
04-03-2006, 11:13 PM
Actually, Goody, I hadn't. I'd always thought of this as a rage killing, mostly because it's still difficult for me to wrap my mind around anybody doing such an horrific thing to two innocent children intentionally. And if it was a rage killing, it would likely have happened quickly, one after the other.

But then, there's the sock.

If the boys were deep sleepers (and that's definitely possible -- you could explode a bomb by my son's bed and he wouldn't raise an eyebrow), I can see her being able to kill one, then plant the sock, then kill the other. If that's the case, it would definitely rule out a rage killing. It was cold and calculating.

The thought makes me shudder.

Jim
Well, there is no evidence of when Devon died. They don't even list a time of death on his autopsy. So there is a little window there which could have given the parents much more time than they claim to come up with their story, assuming the original attack was not planned in advance.

Jeana (DP)
04-04-2006, 09:41 AM
I have always believed she was yelling for Darin, too, but I think someone once pointed out it doesn't line up with the 911 tape. I have never tried to see if it does though.

I mean, why would anyone yell out their front door in the middle of the night for a neighbor when they know the air unit is on, all windows closed, and there is zero chance of being heard. That "Karen!" is out of place.


ABSOLUTELY~! That's one thing that I've never understood about that night. :waitasec: :waitasec:

Jeana (DP)
04-04-2006, 09:42 AM
Well, there is no evidence of when Devon died. They don't even list a time of death on his autopsy. So there is a little window there which could have given the parents much more time than they claim to come up with their story, assuming the original attack was not planned in advance.


Agreed!!!!

Goody
04-05-2006, 11:57 PM
Agreed!!!!
Hi, Jeana. How is Toby's run for office going?

Jeana (DP)
04-06-2006, 03:11 PM
Hi, Jeana. How is Toby's run for office going?


I'm only hearing good things so far Goody!!!!

Goody
04-11-2006, 12:07 AM
I'm only hearing good things so far Goody!!!!
Cool. Is he handling Darlie's appeal or is that guy Rolator still on the case?

Jeana (DP)
04-11-2006, 08:51 AM
Cool. Is he handling Darlie's appeal or is that guy Rolator still on the case?

The "office" will handle the appeal. I don't think they will have to deal with another trial.

Goody
04-11-2006, 02:07 PM
The "office" will handle the appeal. I don't think they will have to deal with another trial.
I take it then it is assigned to a subordinate who works for Toby.

Jeana (DP)
04-11-2006, 02:26 PM
I take it then it is assigned to a subordinate who works for Toby.


I haven't heard, but if he's elected, I seriously doubt he'd be the one. Frankly, I'd be surprised if this is even a blip on his radar screen right now. He's got a lot of convictions under his belt. He's probably not even thinking about her. What's done is done until it isn't. Know what I mean?

Goody
04-11-2006, 08:34 PM
I haven't heard, but if he's elected, I seriously doubt he'd be the one. Frankly, I'd be surprised if this is even a blip on his radar screen right now. He's got a lot of convictions under his belt. He's probably not even thinking about her. What's done is done until it isn't. Know what I mean?
Yep. Just wondering who I should tell the person who finds the real killer he should call. You never know. It could happen. :waitasec: It could.

deanws
04-11-2006, 08:49 PM
I've often wondered if Darin was the one who dropped that sock.I have always assumed that Darin was the one who dropped the sock also.

Jeana (DP)
04-12-2006, 09:00 AM
Yep. Just wondering who I should tell the person who finds the real killer he should call. You never know. It could happen. :waitasec: It could.


I'll tell you what. If someone finds "the real killer," have them call me. Then I'll call the Easter Bunny and the Easter Bunny can call Santa and so on and so on. . .

justice2
04-12-2006, 02:02 PM
I have always assumed that Darin was the one who dropped the sock also.I think Darin planted the sock. If he was just stuffing some bloody clothes down the drain, I'm sure there would have been some blood on the concrete in and around the drain. If the clothes were bagged up, then how could he have accidentally dropped the sock.

cami
04-12-2006, 02:53 PM
I think Darin planted the sock. If he was just stuffing some bloody clothes down the drain, I'm sure there would have been some blood on the concrete in and around the drain. If the clothes were bagged up, then how could he have accidentally dropped the sock.

I wonder why they didn't send the tracking dogs down the alley with both Darin's and Darlie's scent. That would end this mystery of the sock once and for all, you think???? It was probably too late when they thought of it.

Goody
04-13-2006, 12:58 AM
I'll tell you what. If someone finds "the real killer," have them call me. Then I'll call the Easter Bunny and the Easter Bunny can call Santa and so on and so on. . .
Aw, no fair. You just want to take all the credit for finding him.

Goody
04-13-2006, 01:03 AM
I think Darin planted the sock. If he was just stuffing some bloody clothes down the drain, I'm sure there would have been some blood on the concrete in and around the drain. If the clothes were bagged up, then how could he have accidentally dropped the sock.
I doubt if the clothing would be dripping with blood. The sock, for example, had very little blood on it. If he rolled it all up in a tee shirt, the sock could have fallen out and the items tossed down the drain without leaving any telltale signs behind. Also, we don't know if anyone even looked at the sewer close enough to spot a tiny spot of blood on it.

Goody
04-13-2006, 01:08 AM
I wonder why they didn't send the tracking dogs down the alley with both Darin's and Darlie's scent. That would end this mystery of the sock once and for all, you think???? It was probably too late when they thought of it.
The dog they had was specifically trained to track an unknown from the house. Don't ask me how they do it, but I saw a show recently on different dogs being trained for different things. The dog they had was borrowed from Arlington, I think. I agree it would have been great if they had access to a dog that could do that. I am not sure the one they had could though. If it could and they didn't, maybe it was simply that they didn't seriously suspect her yet. Not enough anyway to think of it.

One other thought, maybe they didn't because D&D lived there and could easily explain why their scent was in the alley.

Jeana (DP)
04-13-2006, 08:59 AM
Aw, no fair. You just want to take all the credit for finding him.

I wish I could, but in this case, all the credit goes to the Rowlett Police Department and the prosecutor's office!! They've got their girl. :) :) :)

Jeana (DP)
04-13-2006, 09:00 AM
I doubt if the clothing would be dripping with blood. The sock, for example, had very little blood on it. If he rolled it all up in a tee shirt, the sock could have fallen out and the items tossed down the drain without leaving any telltale signs behind. Also, we don't know if anyone even looked at the sewer close enough to spot a tiny spot of blood on it.


I agree. I also don't think the sock got that blood on it by accident or there would have been more on it. I think it was definately planned that way.

justice2
04-13-2006, 11:43 AM
I doubt if the clothing would be dripping with blood. The sock, for example, had very little blood on it. If he rolled it all up in a tee shirt, the sock could have fallen out and the items tossed down the drain without leaving any telltale signs behind. Also, we don't know if anyone even looked at the sewer close enough to spot a tiny spot of blood on it. Wouldn't be dripping with blood, never said that. It would be a smear of blood from being stuffed down the drain, so it wouldn't have been hard to spot. Yeah, could have gone done without out leaving anything, but what a lucky person if it did.

justice2
04-13-2006, 11:48 AM
I agree. I also don't think the sock got that blood on it by accident or there would have been more on it. I think it was definately planned that way.If it was part of the clothes that got stuffed down the drain, we assume can assume it was being worn by someone, and the only place I can think they would get "light transfer" blood would be from the carpet. How did someone miss stepping in all that blood, and also not get any of Darlie's blood on it.

Jeana (DP)
04-13-2006, 12:09 PM
If it was part of the clothes that got stuffed down the drain, we assume can assume it was being worn by someone, and the only place I can think they would get "light transfer" blood would be from the carpet. How did someone miss stepping in all that blood, and also not get any of Darlie's blood on it.


There were no clothes stuffed down the drain.

deanws
04-13-2006, 08:23 PM
There were no clothes stuffed down the drain.I thought there was one drain that they couldn't get to.

Goody
04-14-2006, 01:03 AM
I agree. I also don't think the sock got that blood on it by accident or there would have been more on it. I think it was definately planned that way.
I believe just the opposite. I think if an amateur were going to stage a bloody sock, the sock would have more blood on it than one that just picked up the blood in the course of the crime. Lay people always think it takes more blood to look authentic. I think Darlie was wearing that sock and probably its mate and at some point she feared it would incriminate her if found at the scene, and that Darin was probably given the responsibilty of disposing of it down the sewer and just dropped it accidentally. I agree with the FBI profiler on this one. I think it they had planted the sock to be found by police, they would have left it closer to the house to make sure police would find it. The reason that sock doesn't fit into the rest of the crime scene is because it was not supposed to be found.

Goody
04-14-2006, 01:07 AM
If it was part of the clothes that got stuffed down the drain, we assume can assume it was being worn by someone, and the only place I can think they would get "light transfer" blood would be from the carpet. How did someone miss stepping in all that blood, and also not get any of Darlie's blood on it.
Because there was not a lot of blood at the scene. It looks like a lot in the photos but those drops are rather small and they trail. The only pools of blood are under the boys' bodies. Most of the carpeting did not have any blood on it.

The bloody footprints in the kitchen were not made by stepping in blood on the carpet and tracking it in there. That blood came from a source at the kitchen sink. Darlie's neck wound, I would guess. As she steps away from the sink the impressions get lighter.

Goody
04-14-2006, 01:14 AM
There were no clothes stuffed down the drain.
How do you know? No one ever looked down the sewer. Remember, they were going to but they needed to get a key from the city for the main pipe cover and never did. The only thing they could say was that nothing was hung up in the sewer opening. So it is very possible that the sock was part of other things that were dumped down the sewer. It was just the only thing that didn't make it. That would explain where Darin's shirt went (if he had one) and where the mate to the sock went.

The DNA expert said a person would have to wear the sock of some time (more than just a few minutes) for them to pick up traces of skin cells. That would put the sock on Darlie's foot, not her hand, and if she was wearing one sock, she was wearing another. Where did it go?

I think the police missed a golden opportunity by not looking down that main sewer pipe.

Jeana (DP)
04-14-2006, 09:45 AM
Well, the sewer pipe is still there. Wanna come over and we'll go take a look. LOL I had no more information than ya'll, I just don't think anyone took the time it would have taken to stuff stuff in there. I think its possible the Darin took the sock down there, but I don't think its necessarily that he had to be the one. I think its entirely possible (in fact I think I lean toward) Darlie doing it herself. She certainly had the time.

justice2
04-14-2006, 12:35 PM
I believe just the opposite. I think if an amateur were going to stage a bloody sock, the sock would have more blood on it than one that just picked up the blood in the course of the crime. Lay people always think it takes more blood to look authentic. I think Darlie was wearing that sock and probably its mate and at some point she feared it would incriminate her if found at the scene, and that Darin was probably given the responsibilty of disposing of it down the sewer and just dropped it accidentally. I agree with the FBI profiler on this one. I think it they had planted the sock to be found by police, they would have left it closer to the house to make sure police would find it. The reason that sock doesn't fit into the rest of the crime scene is because it was not supposed to be found. If Darlie was wearing the sock on her feet why is there none of her blood on it and none on the top of the sock.

Goody
04-14-2006, 06:42 PM
Well, the sewer pipe is still there. Wanna come over and we'll go take a look. LOL I had no more information than ya'll, I just don't think anyone took the time it would have taken to stuff stuff in there. I think its possible the Darin took the sock down there, but I don't think its necessarily that he had to be the one. I think its entirely possible (in fact I think I lean toward) Darlie doing it herself. She certainly had the time.
For Darlie, the time element is not the problem. It is the blood from her arm that presents a problem unless it was self inflicted too. In that case, she would not have been dripping blood sometime during the murders until paramedics arrived to bandage it.

I wouldn't mind taking a look see in that main pipe. If I were healthy, I'd be telling TJ to pack up; we're heading for Texas. hahahahahahah! Who knows? Maybe that tee shirt or other sock got snagged and is just sitting there slowly rotting as if it is waiting to be discovered...the way some bodies wait to be exhumed. :D

Goody
04-14-2006, 06:45 PM
If Darlie was wearing the sock on her feet why is there none of her blood on it and none on the top of the sock.
Good question. Even the socks would have had to be removed before the arm injury, I guess. That definitely points to both her knife injuries being self inflicted.

justice2
04-14-2006, 09:17 PM
Good question. Even the socks would have had to be removed before the arm injury, I guess. That definitely points to both her knife injuries being self inflicted. I've never thought she was wearing the socks since they were man's tub socks, but I'll keep that in mind in trying to figure out a scenario. I wonder if the knife injury on her arm is the blood that is mixed with the cast off of the boys, and then she did the neck injury later. I'm still leaning toward her lying down when her neck was cut. But geeze who knows!

Goody
04-15-2006, 06:32 PM
I've never thought she was wearing the socks since they were man's tub socks, but I'll keep that in mind in trying to figure out a scenario. I wonder if the knife injury on her arm is the blood that is mixed with the cast off of the boys, and then she did the neck injury later. I'm still leaning toward her lying down when her neck was cut. But geeze who knows!
As I recall the DNA expert thought it would take some time with it on for her DNA to show up in their tests. I took it to mean that just wearing it for a few minutes on her hand or just handling it to run it down the alley would not have been long enough for her DNA to show up on it.

The defense came up with the theory that the intruder might have shoved the sock in her mouth to muffle her screams and the DNA came from her salina.

dasgal
05-19-2006, 12:50 PM
She had ample time to do all of the things during the time alotted. Another thing to keep in mind is that she was on a cordless phone during the 911 call. Most people forget this simple fact. This "frees her up" quite a bit.

justice2
05-19-2006, 06:29 PM
If Darlie was wearing the sock on her feet why is there none of her blood on it and none on the top of the sock.OK, without reading the last "legal" document (don't remember what is was called), I think I remember now reading that there was some blood on the top of the sock, which was some of the stuff that they want tested.

sharkeyes
05-23-2006, 05:57 PM
I'm leaning toward Darin making the sock run.....

Goody
06-04-2006, 08:55 AM
OK, without reading the last "legal" document (don't remember what is was called), I think I remember now reading that there was some blood on the top of the sock, which was some of the stuff that they want tested.
That is where they say the saliva was...on the tip of the sock. Could it be a freudian slip....she made that run herself carrying it by the tip between her teeth??? Or maybe she just carried it that way for a bit before Darin made the run.

deanws
06-04-2006, 08:02 PM
I'm leaning toward Darin making the sock run.....I am still wanting to know, if they did plant the sock, what good they thought it was going to do? It doesn't prove innocence or guilt. Unless it was just a dropsy, I can't figure out why they did it. So, I am leaning more towards the drop theory. Still wish they had checked that drain. :crazy:

sharkeyes
06-07-2006, 07:40 PM
I am still wanting to know, if they did plant the sock, what good they thought it was going to do? It doesn't prove innocence or guilt. .......Still wish they had checked that drain.I'm thinking maybe D and D figured it would make it look like the "intruder dropped it" as he ran away....I don't know, the whole series of events beginning with the 911 call and Darlie's explanation(s) of what happened that night just does not smell right - how in the world did Darin sleep through that?! There is no way that Darin is an "innocent bystander" in all of this.

I agree 100% -they should have checked that drain! IMO