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gaia227
08-13-2008, 01:38 PM
Interesting BF - thanks for summarizing. I read the Topix forum sometimes but cannot always get through it due to the attitudes of some of the posters.

I had not considered the whole scene Abbott encountered as being faked. I want to think on that for a bit.

I had read many times that the damage to the car did not seem consistent with the type of crash.

Would stuffing a rag in a tailpipe cause CO2 to leak into the car?

murraydwyer
08-15-2008, 06:58 PM
Reminder Maura and Brooke Wilberger segments on 20/20 tonight at 10:00 EST

http://abcnews.go.com/2020

hmg
08-15-2008, 07:57 PM
Police say that blocking the tailpipe would not cause death in an open space.

Maura's story will be on 20/20 at 10 PM EST tonight.

shwa
08-15-2008, 11:19 PM
Blocking the tailpipe could cause the motor to stall. It's possible that Maura stepped
on the gas pedal as the car was stalling causing it to speed up quickly. Losing control of the vehicle and then hitting the tree as she had no time to put on the brakes.

Peabody
08-16-2008, 02:48 PM
I've been over to the Topix forum and I will attempt to summarize key pieces of information here. Please correct me and add what I miss. I still haven't read the whole thing.

Here it is: http://www.topix.com/forum/city/franconia-nh/T66DK0TLH7PP4VJ36

Background: There are a number of folks posting there that were former members of the Maura Murray Missing Forum at the (official I suppose) website. One of the private investigators from a team has posted there and has made some comments about what the team has concluded on and the makeup of the team. I can't be sure but even some of the early posters may have been members of her family - and it appeared a private investigator the family hired would read and post.


Members of Maura's family and her most intimate friends have chosen not to post on internet forums. The family and friends say that reading the forums are emotionally painful and that posting is just beyond their limits. They know that anyone experiencing the pain of a missing loved one understands.

They counted on Helena Murray, who is married to Fred Murray's cousin, and myself, a very close family friend, to try to keep the facts straight; alas, Helena, and I found that internet sleuths were convinced they knew more than we and that we had an agenda in deceiving all of you and placing our own spin on Maura's missing....NOT TRUE! So, we too have given up on any attempt at trying to keep the facts straight......Helena has been ill and I have been dealing with other family demands. Both of us along with many others work behind the scenes and support Fred in all that he undertakes in finding his beloved Maura. However, we just do not have the time nor the physical or emotional fortitude to consistently battle the outright deceptions and frequent misunderstandings that have permeated some forums, especially the Topix forum.

There has never been any private investigator hired at any time by the Murray family, and certainly Frank Kelly aka "Weeper" in his posts on both the MMM website and the Topix forum has never been paid to "side" with the Murray family nor to hide information. He has made it very clear in his postings at the MMM site and most recently on the Topix Forum that he, along with other PI's from MA VT, NH and MA work pro bono (without pay). They were not asked by the Murray family for assistance. The PI Team approached the Murrays at a fund raising event in support of the Molly Bish Foun dation. Molly Bish went missing in MA at the age of 15. Although her body was eventually found, her murderer has not. Her parents John and Magi Bish started the Molly Bish Foundation to assist in justice not only for Molly, but also for other missing persons and their families.

You can access the police report re: the accident whereby Maura's car was found at http://www.mauramurraymissing.com/Documents.html . Please note the many inconsistencies and contradictions.

What does this say? I do not know. To say would only be to speculate, and if ONE thing has hurt Maura's case it is all of the off-the-wall speculation. It does say that ***something is amiss***.






<SNIP>

I entered very late. The PI explained what his group does on Page 193. I posted some new thoughts on page 192 and reposted my earlier theory from here on page 194 and asked him if Mr. Atwood knew for certain that it was Maura at the scene of the accident by comparing his memory to a photo.

I thought it was a yes or no question that would either place Maura as a run away or a victim of Mr. Atwood.

But the answer was "Maybe" with added pieces of information. You can read what the PI said on Page 194.

In summary he said that:

1. The broken window was created inside the car
2. The hood damage indeed is not consistent with the crash
3. They ruled out accidental death and suicide.
4. All of the after-disappearance sightings have been investigated and it was a not her

I then asked when he believed that Maura's actions were no longer voluntary

He said he believes after the hood was damaged.

I don't know what evidence he based his conclusions on - I believe he is a PI and he says he speaks for the team, but the team only releases a limited amount of information - no one contradicted him.

The conclusion was that the accident was staged and another woman was probably in the car instead of Maura and talked to Mr. Atwood.

I will continue later - but you can see all of this at Topix if you like.

B F

Peabody
08-16-2008, 02:56 PM
I believe that many sources have doubted any note was left but it certainly seems debatable.

There is also confusion about her "packed up" dorm room. It is very possible that she never unpacked from winter break. These details really just add to the mysterious and uncertain circumstances surrounding this case.


It is a FACT that Maura did not leave a note for her boyfriend in her dorm room or in any other place.

LT. Scarinza in his remarks ***First**** said there was a note and alluded to the fact that the note was a suicide note. Because UMass Police told the family they found no note and the boyfriend was in the room and found no such note, the family insisted that the content of any such note be shared with them IF such a note was in existence. AFTER ***much*** insistence that he correct this error, and the boyfriend's mother publicly stating that Lt. Scarinza was a "liar" in the Caledonian Express in July 04, Lt. Scarinza posted a press release on the internet (which has conveniently been removed for some time) saying "I meant to say that there was a note from the boyfriend to Maura." He did not address the issue of his insinuation that it was a suicide note.

The boyfriend said all along that the only notes in Maura's room were notes and letters FROM him to her that were dated over the several years during their relationship.

FYI: For those of you new to this forum, I am a close friend of the family, and have been helping them since first learning of Maura's missing.

tuppence
08-16-2008, 03:03 PM
Why did the Murray family not hire a PI? Why did they not want to work with any of the PIs that volunteered?


:waitasec:

tuppence
08-16-2008, 03:10 PM
Does the family have an opinion on whether the room was really packed up or had just never been unpacked? I always believed from the description that it just had never been completely unpacked.

The stuff about the Lt and his statements about the note is awful! Hard to think of a legitimate reason for him to lead people to make an early suicide assumption unless they were trying to get a suspect to relax his guard and that certainly doesn't seem like what was going on. :(

Peabody
08-16-2008, 06:35 PM
Why did the Murray family not hire a PI? Why did they not want to work with any of the PIs that volunteered?


:waitasec:

They did not and do not have the money to hire a PI. This is no different from the majority of families of missing persons. PI's are most expensive. Maura is from a working class family.

Maura's family has cooperated not only with LE regarding Maura's case, but they also have coopereated and accepted the help of any PI that has offered their services.

They certainly work with the team of PI's that have volunteered. Frank Kelly, one of the members of the PI Team that works pro bono for the Molly Bish Foundation and is very active on Maura's case often posted under the alias "Weeper" on the forum that used to exist at www.mauramurraymissing.com (http://www.mauramurraymissing.com)

Frank Kelly still posts as "Weeper" on the Topix Forum:
Where is MAURA MURRAY http://www.topix.com/forum/city/franconia-nh/T66DK0TLH7PP4VJ36/p201

His most recent post is #4078 on August 15

It is copied below



Posted on Topix Forum by "Weeper"

Wheston, yes there does seem to be a discrepency between the witness statement and the police accident report. Draw your own conclussions about this and take into account the intire accident report, you may find several other problems with that. The Grafton County Dispatch log was previously posted (I believe on the MMM site) and I am not obliged to re-post it. You can find the accident report on the exsisting MMM site however, and if one looks at EVERY block, and word in the report you may be left scratching your head. Print this document out and when I say EVERY block and word, take a highlighter and highlight every part that seems odd. When you've completed this "document evaluation" in this manner, if you have more than six (6) highlighted oddities they're not there by "mistake". Note the time the report was writen and the information in this "official public document" and draw your own "reasonable" conclussions, if you will.

Sophie, please read the information provided to you before posting your questions, as Firecat pointed out. The "dog-hit" at the A-frame was stated as "possibly being minsterl secretions" from a laundry hamper (in the closet)on the second floor or any blood/human secretions from clothing "near/under" a washing machine on the first floor. The dogs hit on both locations and the carpet was removed from the first floor. We handled this material as is expected in our field and sent half to the NHSP. We never expect any return information from the LE community nor do we want it. The reasons for this have been stated earlier.

You all need to keep in mind that in the process of a criminal "on-going investigation" even "public information" can be(and often is)witheld from public scrutiny. If you can't understand the reasoning for this, take up needle-point rather than investigations. I'm not being funny about this, I mean it.

Respectfully
Weeper

tuppence
08-16-2008, 06:49 PM
Thanks for the feedback Peabody. I misunderstood your earlier post. I realize PIs are expensive. I'm glad there are some people that have been volunteering. I have been following this case from the beginning and check back now and again to see if there are any new discoveries. I hope someday the family learns what happened. :(

BenFranklin
08-17-2008, 02:40 PM
Peabody - perhaps a tool that can produce this: http://www.historycommons.org/project.jsp?project=911_project will be helpful.

I sent an inquiry to the center for cooperative research today, I copy it below:


I hope that you could assist me in passing on some information regarding how one might start a new project at historycommons.org, or how one could start a similar site for missing persons.

I myself am buried in a very large project - writing a genealogy book and could not take on the responsibility of being a maintainer.

But I do recognize a that the tools used here would be very helpful, in my humble opinion.

My purpose is to share whatever information you might supply to some people that might be interested - and I have copied to them this message, and will copy whatever answer I receive.

One group includes individuals trying to help find Maura Murray.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maura_Murray

I am aware that Wikipedia is editable. I cannot honestly say with 100% certainty that all facts listed there are in accord with the families understanding of events that took place.

But in the case of a missing loved one, I feel that a ruled-out-as-suspect family member should have the right to be involved in the fact gathering process - but not have to carry the burden of all its weight.

In Maura's case, there are numerous forums, articles and compilations thereof; numerous theories and numerous disputes about both fact and possibility as to what happened to her accross the Internet.

None the less, all those involved have a common goal - to help find Maura Murray.

I cannot speak for anyone. But, with all of the confusion and dispute - I fear that it might become very painful and burdonsome for those most near and dear to the missing to correct every mistake, etc. especially on a topic that is constantly being discussed by participants that constantly change - all with different degrees of awareness of the facts and theories.

I would much like to humbly request from you one of the following alternatives:

1. A general topic for missing persons, subtopiced by individual.

or

2. Limited assistance in the form of information and software that can be used to create a history commons type of web site to help find missing persons.

Thank you

Advocate4
08-17-2008, 04:32 PM
.....alas, Helena, and I found that internet sleuths were convinced they knew more than we and that we had an agenda in deceiving all of you and placing our own spin on Maura's missing....NOT TRUE! So, we too have given up on any attempt at trying to keep the facts straight......we just do not have the time nor the physical or emotional fortitude to consistently battle the outright deceptions and frequent misunderstandings that have permeated some forums, especially the Topix forum.

This is just so very understandable, that you and Helena (or anyone else in the family) can't continue to deal with the ups and downs of the forums. However, in some defense of the various forums -- and I have at least done a good bit of reading on virtually all of them connected with Maura's case -- even the misunderstandings, deceptions, occasional rudeness and so on, have kept the forums active and have kept Maura's case active on the Internet. I've been a participant in some of the Maura forums for more than 3 years, and I do believe that most of those who post sincerely care about Maura and what happened to her and are honestly trying to help. There have been quite a few posters who have gone to great lengths to do research on this or that subject connected with her case and provide information that sheds concrete light and turns questions into facts.

There are differing theories about what may have happened to Maura, including a few that I personally wouldn't like if Maura were my family member, theories that would make me uncomfortable about the discussions of them, but it is the nature of human beings and the real world that no one but God ever knows anyone else 100% through-and-through, and so even those discussions have some merit and go in some directions or may bring to light some facts that could help in one way or another to find Maura.

Because of my concern and involvement in the forums, my whole family sat down the other night and watched Maura's segment on 20/20, and now we are having round-table discussions at the dinner table about her case. This includes my parents who are in their 80's, mind you. Others of my close family members around the country know about Maura. And I'm just one person who participates in Maura's forums.

Just wanted to share this opinion in hopes the family might be able to reach a better view of the values of the forums in general. Honestly, I think they are more helpful than hurtful to Maura's case. But then again, I've been involved in all sorts of forums online for the last 15 years and have developed a thick skin that enables me to pretty much ignore the disruptive, unproductive people ("don't feed the trolls").

tuppence
08-18-2008, 09:50 AM
I have looked through the accident report. Some initial things that don't seem to make sense.


1) report says that both airbags deployed yet the windshield was broken from the inside (appears that head hit windshield which I would think would not happen if the airbags deployed during the accident?

2) It's very hard to see how the car veered off the right edge of the road and yet hit the left side of the front of the car and not the right. Then the car was turned around facing the opposite side of the road. The drawing of how the cop decided this is what had happened is incomprehensible.

4) The hood damage is not really marked or discussed. It is hard to see how the hood ended up that way based on the accident report.

3) It says the road condition was dry but wasn't there snow/ice?

shwa
08-18-2008, 11:49 AM
Excellent questions tuppence. I can only suggest that the road was slippery at the
temperature it was that night, if she lost control of her car.
Depending on the angle her car left the road and how deep the ditch or the level of
the ground was when her car left the road, as wel as the rate of speed she was traveling probably had something to do with the way the car ended up.

You raise a very good point about the cracked windshield.

gaia227
08-18-2008, 12:09 PM
There has never been any private investigator hired at any time by the Murray family, and certainly Frank Kelly aka "Weeper" in his posts on both the MMM website and the Topix forum has never been paid to "side" with the Murray family nor to hide information. He has made it very clear in his postings at the MMM site and most recently on the Topix Forum that he, along with other PI's from MA VT, NH and MA work pro bono (without pay). They were not asked by the Murray family for assistance. The PI Team approached the Murrays at a fund raising event in support of the Molly Bish Foun dation. Molly Bish went missing in MA at the age of 15. Although her body was eventually found, her murderer has not. Her parents John and Magi Bish started the Molly Bish Foundation to assist in justice not only for Molly, but also for other missing persons and their families.

***.

Hi Peabody. Thank you for all of the information. I am pretty sure I am one of the posters who said something along to the lines of Fred hiring PI's. The reason I thought that was because of this statement in the southshore express article:

This A-frame home on Valley Road in Woodsville was the site of a search by private investigators in October, 2006. Cadaver dogs trained to track the fluids of decomposing bodies picked up scents in the house, according to investigators. Carpet samples from the homes were reportedly sent out for testing. No results have been released. The house is 3/4 of a mile from the scene of Maura’s accident

But after reading through the article again it's entirety I realized it never explicitly said Fred had hired these people.

So, for my part of perpetrating rumours and dis-information I apologize. I cannot even begin to imagine how frustrating it is for Maura's friends and families to deal with all the specualtion on top of the simple facts of what has happened.

BenFranklin
08-18-2008, 12:41 PM
I just want to also apologize. I think I should take the blame on this one.

:)

bugaboo
08-18-2008, 02:03 PM
1) report says that both airbags deployed yet the windshield was broken from the inside (appears that head hit windshield which I would think would not happen if the airbags deployed during the accident?

The driver's side airbag very often cracks the windshield upon release. It's just the positioning of the driver's airbag that shoots it up and out, cracking the windshield. My question is why the passenger airbag went off. Does anyone know if that model/year Saturn was designed to set off both regardless of seat belt status? I thought most cars designed the passenger airbag to go off only when the seatbelt was engaged or when there was enough weight on the seat.




2) It's very hard to see how the car veered off the right edge of the road and yet hit the left side of the front of the car and not the right. Then the car was turned around facing the opposite side of the road. The drawing of how the cop decided this is what had happened is incomprehensible.

From the description and drawing, it sounds as if she was trying to turn left, but the vehicle simply slid straight, down the embankment. The front end (driver's side specifically) hit some trees, where it would have bounced backward. If the wheel was still turned to the left, where she had been steering, it could have gotten the vehicle to turn enough to make it straight in line with the road. Hard to picture, but it can happen.




4) The hood damage is not really marked or discussed. It is hard to see how the hood ended up that way based on the accident report.

The top of the second page shows the area of damage (front driver's side). With the car angled downward, it could have caught the first tree on the driver's side first, then crumpling the hood when it hit other trees. Just an idea on my part.

Advocate4
08-18-2008, 02:25 PM
...My question is why the passenger airbag went off. Does anyone know if that model/year Saturn was designed to set off both regardless of seat belt status? I thought most cars designed the passenger airbag to go off only when the seatbelt was engaged or when there was enough weight on the seat.

This is a great question -- I really hope an answer can be provided to this!



...From the description and drawing, it sounds as if she was trying to turn left, but the vehicle simply slid straight, down the embankment.

Based on photos of the curve on 112, there isn't a "down" embankment. If the Saturn hit trees there, it would have had to jump snow and ice piled at side of the road by graders before it could possibly hit trees. Not sure how high the snow/ice piles would have been, I think I remember hearing something like 4 feet high but I can't swear to that.

bugaboo
08-18-2008, 02:42 PM
Sorry, wasn't thinking. Hmm. If she went over the embankment of snow/ice, there would likely be scraping on the bumper and undercarriage. The pictures don't really reflect that at all. I had a Saturn. A 1993. It collected bugs and chips from rocks like crazy. If she went over/through a snowbank, there should have been more scratches on the front end.

Back to square one.

GoodAim
08-19-2008, 08:44 AM
There were lots of other inconsistencies in the accident report. At the beginning of the report the officer, C. Smith, said she was uninjured, then twice later in terms of her condition or her injury he said "unknown". He didn't address the strange tire imprints that look like a vehicle pulled up nose-to-nose at an oblique angle. He didn't write the report for almost a week after the accident. He said the accident was reported at 7:35PM and he was dispatched at 7:30PM. It seems like the officer got some of his information from the witness, Butch A. The more you look at the report....

tuppence
08-19-2008, 09:21 AM
The driver's side airbag very often cracks the windshield upon release. It's just the positioning of the driver's airbag that shoots it up and out, cracking the windshield. .

Interesting. Do you know if the crack pattern is typical of what is shown in this car?

tuppence
08-19-2008, 09:25 AM
There were lots of other inconsistencies in the accident report. At the beginning of the report the officer, C. Smith, said she was uninjured, then twice later in terms of her condition or her injury he said "unknown". He didn't address the strange tire imprints that look like a vehicle pulled up nose-to-nose at an oblique angle. He didn't write the report for almost a week after the accident. He said the accident was reported at 7:35PM and he was dispatched at 7:30PM. It seems like the officer got some of his information from the witness, Butch A. The more you look at the report....


I had a very hard time understanding his drawing. Do we know that some of those prints are from a second vehicle? That would make more sense.

tuppence
08-19-2008, 09:28 AM
This is a great question -- I really hope an answer can be provided to this!




Based on photos of the curve on 112, there isn't a "down" embankment. If the Saturn hit trees there, it would have had to jump snow and ice piled at side of the road by graders before it could possibly hit trees. Not sure how high the snow/ice piles would have been, I think I remember hearing something like 4 feet high but I can't swear to that.

Yeah - the angle of the accident just doesn't make sense to me. How could the upper part be so crumpled whole the bumper (which sticks out further) is not smashed at all. Looking at the line of trees I just can't see how she hits the left side of the car when she came off the right side of the road.

Are there any pictures of tree damage?

lew657
08-19-2008, 10:19 AM
From what I have seen the location of the break in the windshield does not seem consistent with a head hitting. There also is no mention of DNA at the impact location- hair or skin would have been caught.

As for the airbag deploying - it is possible that when the airbag deployed the cover on the steering wheel hit the windshield and caused the break. In many cases windshields are broken from this debris - HOWEVER, the only way this could accurately be determined to be from this would be to verify the angle the steering wheel was tilted to and the trajectory the cover would have taken to impact. Without these specifics you can't determine this as the cause.

You do need to remember that the deployment of airbags is caused by a small explosion - there is a significant force to this. If you have ever been in an accident where they deployed - you felt them. Not nearly as bad as you would have felt the steering wheel but you would feel them.

BenFranklin
08-19-2008, 12:43 PM
There were lots of other inconsistencies in the accident report. At the beginning of the report the officer, C. Smith, said she was uninjured, then twice later in terms of her condition or her injury he said "unknown".

News to me that a police officer saw her alive. Source?



He didn't address the strange tire imprints that look like a vehicle pulled up nose-to-nose at an oblique angle. He didn't write the report for almost a week after the accident. He said the accident was reported at 7:35PM and he was dispatched at 7:30PM. It seems like the officer got some of his information from the witness, Butch A. The more you look at the report....

The more it looks like human error??

gaia227
08-19-2008, 01:14 PM
There were lots of other inconsistencies in the accident report. At the beginning of the report the officer, C. Smith, said she was uninjured, then twice later in terms of her condition or her injury he said "unknown". He didn't address the strange tire imprints that look like a vehicle pulled up nose-to-nose at an oblique angle. He didn't write the report for almost a week after the accident. He said the accident was reported at 7:35PM and he was dispatched at 7:30PM. It seems like the officer got some of his information from the witness, Butch A. The more you look at the report....

Which accident report are you looking at? The one I am looking at off the MM website says the time was 1930(7:30) and I don't see anywhere where he says she is uninjured. It says there was no one in the car or area and he talked to a witness who said she was fine.

I'm not trying to interrogate or anything I am just curious if there is another report out there I haven't seen yet or something.

Thanks

lew657
08-19-2008, 01:53 PM
If you look at the page where they just circle the choices you will see the officer circled "unknown" for all comments relating to the occupant but did pick "had been drinking." Sorry I don't care what 'evidence' they found in the car - without seeing her there is no way to determine that she was drinking while driving on some dark, curvey, unknown road..

tuppence
08-19-2008, 03:36 PM
If you look at the page where they just circle the choices you will see the officer circled "unknown" for all comments relating to the occupant but did pick "had been drinking." Sorry I don't care what 'evidence' they found in the car - without seeing her there is no way to determine that she was drinking while driving on some dark, curvey, unknown road..

agree.

tuppence
08-19-2008, 03:59 PM
Why is it no longer possible to get to the Steve Huff Maura Murray case summary on his truecrimeblog??

tuppence
08-19-2008, 05:22 PM
I read the entire southshoreexpress summary of the case which was fascinating.

Peabody -

1) Was the carpet taken from the AFrame house where the cadaver dogs hit that the police and investigators were supposed to test ever found? I found that whole part extremely disturbing - how could the different investigators give so many different answers about where the carpet is at?

2) If they argued against providing files because there is a '75% chance of prosecution' then at least that must mean they are admitting they are now quite sure that she was killed and that she did not runaway or commit suicide. Have they clarified what changed their mind on this?

Hucklepie
08-19-2008, 09:45 PM
From what I have seen the location of the break in the windshield does not seem consistent with a head hitting. There also is no mention of DNA at the impact location- hair or skin would have been caught.

As for the airbag deploying - it is possible that when the airbag deployed the cover on the steering wheel hit the windshield and caused the break. In many cases windshields are broken from this debris - HOWEVER, the only way this could accurately be determined to be from this would be to verify the angle the steering wheel was tilted to and the trajectory the cover would have taken to impact. Without these specifics you can't determine this as the cause.

You do need to remember that the deployment of airbags is caused by a small explosion - there is a significant force to this. If you have ever been in an accident where they deployed - you felt them. Not nearly as bad as you would have felt the steering wheel but you would feel them.

I also agree that the windshield break looks consistent with breakage from an airbag. I had a car accident in June and my windshield was broken pretty much in the exact same manner from my airbags.

Maybe I'm overlooking this detail, but what year was Maura's Saturn? My car was a 1996 Honda Accord, and both my driver's side and passenger airbags deployed in my accident, although I was the only person in my car.

GoodAim
08-20-2008, 07:33 AM
hi gaia, this may already been answered for you, but what I've been talking about came from here:

http://www.mauramurraymissing.com/Documents.html

GoodAim
08-20-2008, 08:46 AM
I had a very hard time understanding his drawing. Do we know that some of those prints are from a second vehicle? That would make more sense.

Tuppence, it does seem like those tire tracks might've been from another vehicle. It was discussed in the last day or two on TOPIX Where is Maura Murray. There are links to that forum above.

gaia227
08-20-2008, 09:37 AM
If you look at the page where they just circle the choices you will see the officer circled "unknown" for all comments relating to the occupant but did pick "had been drinking." Sorry I don't care what 'evidence' they found in the car - without seeing her there is no way to determine that she was drinking while driving on some dark, curvey, unknown road..

Oh! I feel silly. I didn't even look at that. I was only reading the actual text. Thanks!

Peabody
08-20-2008, 11:00 AM
I read the entire southshoreexpress summary of the case which was fascinating.

Peabody -

1) Was the carpet taken from the AFrame house where the cadaver dogs hit that the police and investigators were supposed to test ever found? I found that whole part extremely disturbing - how could the different investigators give so many different answers about where the carpet is at?

There was carpet taken from the A-Frame. I was told a piece was sent to the NHSP for testing and that the PI's kept another piece. I am sorry but that is all that I know FOR CERTAIN. Like you, family members and myself have heard various stories about the carpet. Some of the information was indeed posted on the web by volunteer PI's.




2) If they argued against providing files because there is a '75% chance of prosecution' then at least that must mean they are admitting they are now quite sure that she was killed and that she did not runaway or commit suicide. Have they clarified what changed their mind on this?

No, the family HAS NEVER BEEN TOLD why the NHSP changed their theory FROM suicide/run-away TO foul play.

The last media LE interview given re: Maura was by LT. Scarinza, head of NHSP Troop F, for the 20/20 broadcast. Without checking notes, I believe that 20/20 special aired in very early 06. The NHSP and Attorney General's office refuse to comment further......otherwise 20/20 would have included any updated LE comments in the recent 8/15/08 updated airing of Maura's vanishing....Fred, Maura's father, presented the only updated information in that recent special.

bugaboo
08-20-2008, 02:49 PM
Maybe I'm overlooking this detail, but what year was Maura's Saturn? My car was a 1996 Honda Accord, and both my driver's side and passenger airbags deployed in my accident, although I was the only person in my car.

It's a 1996 Saturn. It's on the report, but hard to find. Theirs are so different than ours here in CT.

tuppence
08-25-2008, 07:38 PM
bump......

dee10134
09-02-2008, 12:22 PM
I was just checking in on this case. Still nothing new.... :(

ScreenName
09-03-2008, 08:12 AM
Not sure if we can post links to this site or not
http://forensicastrology.blogspot.com

Maura Murray is after Brandy Hall.

CanManEh
09-03-2008, 11:07 AM
I have not read all the posts on here but was this girl brought up again ,I am assuming its again because on sat night thats what 48 hours mystery was about this girl and another girl that went missing and about how the parents of the too girls connected and helped one another deal with each case ..

bobfather99
09-06-2008, 10:30 PM
Veteran of the old forum on the MaruaMurraymissing website, just checking in. Still hoping for the best!!!

Bob

bobfather99
09-09-2008, 12:28 AM
Bumping to the top......

Hoping for a positive outcome...

gaia227
09-10-2008, 11:15 AM
Not sure if we can post links to this site or not
http://forensicastrology.blogspot.com

Maura Murray is after Brandy Hall.

Well, if anything it is interesting. I have to wonder how much the Astrologer knows about the cases before she does their charts. She has to have general understanding but the more details she has the more they are going to cloud her objectivity.

It is a nice thought that she is alive and well somewhere. Of course, I am very skeptical of the whole 'forensic' astrology thing.

seeker78
09-15-2008, 03:54 PM
Any chance we might be able to help petition and get some of these documents released by law enforcement? I'm honestly not sure how that works, and it appears someone said above that they don't have to release them until the case is closed ... but if they *would* release them, people here at WS may be able to start from the top and look at it objectively. I just found this case through someone's signature link, and it breaks my heart.

tuppence
09-16-2008, 09:52 AM
I am wondering if there is perhaps something going on with this case right now. Information online on the case has been taken down in a few places and there have been references in a few places that imply possible police involvement in the crime. I REALLY hope there is a breakthrough going on behind the scenes.


I am very interested in the fact that the car damage does not match the accident report or the scene. Clearly something happened to that car besides just going off road right there.

tuppence
09-16-2008, 09:56 AM
some interesting points on the car damage from the award winning investigatie article on the case. http://southshorexpress.net/content/view/81/174/


The damage to Maura's car does not match with the kind of damage typically caused by impact to a snow embankment or a tree, according to volunteer investigator John Healy.

The hood of Maura's car was pushed in, with a dent on the driver's side hood, but no significant damage was made to the car's driver side headlight or front-end bumper. If Maura had hit a tree, investigators believe there would have been significant front-end damage to her car, particularly the bumper. The damage found on Maura's car is more akin to hitting a guardrail or the back end of another vehicle, said Healy.

"We are considering that Maura may have been involved in another accident prior to her car being found on Wild Ammonoosuc," said Healy. "We're not ruling out that the accident [on Wild Ammonoosuc] could have been staged."

Investigator Frank Kelly concurs. "I will state that her vehicle was not damaged at the site where it was located and towed from," he said.

It is possible that Maura may have hit a deer or moose that evening but the damage appears more likely to have been caused by a truck or another vehicle that is higher off the ground than Maura's car, according to investigators.

gaia227
09-16-2008, 10:43 AM
I am wondering if there is perhaps something going on with this case right now. Information online on the case has been taken down in a few places and there have been references in a few places that imply possible police involvement in the crime. I REALLY hope there is a breakthrough going on behind the scenes.


I am very interested in the fact that the car damage does not match the accident report or the scene. Clearly something happened to that car besides just going off road right there.


I certainly hope this is the case.

The damage to the car is very interesting. It doesn't take an expert to read what allegedly happen and then look at the car and see they two don't exactly add up. THe way the front end is damaged is certainly looks like it hit something like a tree, another car, utility pole, etc. I believe on the topix board some posters seem to think the damage is consistent with a tow truck.
I am reciting from memory here so please correct me if I am wrong but I seem to recall that there were no skid marks present either.

MCDRAW
09-16-2008, 11:14 AM
I am wondering if there is perhaps something going on with this case right now. Information online on the case has been taken down in a few places and there have been references in a few places that imply possible police involvement in the crime. I REALLY hope there is a breakthrough going on behind the scenes.


I am very interested in the fact that the car damage does not match the accident report or the scene. Clearly something happened to that car besides just going off road right there.


I hope there is a breakthrough too!

tuppence
09-16-2008, 11:40 AM
Some interesting points about the accident may be significant if we now view things through the lens of it being staged:

1) Some have questioned whether Maura was at the scene at all since the original call by the neighbors (as recorded in the police log) said they saw man smoking a cigarette not a woman Also the bus driver that talked to Maura said at one point early on that she didn't look much like her pictures and her hair was down. he later said he did think it was her...but he never got closer then 15-20' away and it was dusk

2) There was some possible indication of someone else being in the car - back window was cracked open and there was a beer bottle in the back seat.

3) There is a possible mysterious earlier accident (20-30 minutes earlier and within a couple miles) involving a young woman that a witness reports hearing on the police scanner but was never recorded in the police log. Accoding to the witness there was request for help and then emergency vehicles were told not to come to the scene because the woman had gotten into a private vehicle and left.

Hope4Lost
09-17-2008, 04:22 AM
Who owned the house where the cadaver dogs were brought in? Forgive me if this has been covered already. I'm just starting to follow this case. Thanks.

gaia227
09-17-2008, 10:20 AM
Who owned the house where the cadaver dogs were brought in? Forgive me if this has been covered already. I'm just starting to follow this case. Thanks.

Oh geez....I will look for this as I know there was a name attached to it. I can say that the house was unoccupied but sat on someone's property so technically they owned it. From my understanding, a piece of carpet was taken from a closet to be analysed but this was done by PI's and the last I heard the results had not been released.

gaia227
09-17-2008, 10:36 AM
Some interesting points about the accident may be significant if we now view things through the lens of it being staged:

1) Some have questioned whether Maura was at the scene at all since the original call by the neighbors (as recorded in the police log) said they saw man smoking a cigarette not a woman Also the bus driver that talked to Maura said at one point early on that she didn't look much like her pictures and her hair was down. he later said he did think it was her...but he never got closer then 15-20' away and it was dusk

2) There was some possible indication of someone else being in the car - back window was cracked open and there was a beer bottle in the back seat.

3) There is a possible mysterious earlier accident (20-30 minutes earlier and within a couple miles) involving a young woman that a witness reports hearing on the police scanner but was never recorded in the police log. Accoding to the witness there was request for help and then emergency vehicles were told not to come to the scene because the woman had gotten into a private vehicle and left.

The neighbors - The Westmans - have always disagreed on what they saw in the car. The wife thinks she saw a man smoking a cigarette. The husband thinks it was a girl on a cell phone. Apparently this still causes arguments between the two of them because they are both certain about what they saw. Another neighbor reported that they saw activity around the back of the vehicle 'a person' standing at the trunk - someone putting the rag in the tailpipe maybe? But why?
And if she was facing west in the east bound lane then that would mean she was facing oncoming traffic, right?

I have always been perplexed by the reported accident heard earlier. I am not sure I understand the significance of it. Does that mean it could have been Maura involved in another accident and if so then how does that explain her car ending up where it did? Why would the police have no record of the call? Was it a 911 call? If it was then there has to be tapes of it.
I have always kind of written this off as being a witness report that is wrong. If only one person heard this on the scanner there is nothing to back up their statement and it is very possible they were just mistaken in what they heard. Looking at it from the angle of the scene being stage a differenct light is cast and it is worth looking into.

The sightings - especially the one from the woman who claims she saw Maura at a convenience store mouthing help me to her. How different things could be right now if the woman had.

tuppence
09-17-2008, 11:06 AM
Oh geez....I will look for this as I know there was a name attached to it. I can say that the house was unoccupied but sat on someone's property so technically they owned it. From my understanding, a piece of carpet was taken from a closet to be analysed but this was done by PI's and the last I heard the results had not been released.

I did see in an article I found a couple days ago (but came out 2007) that Fred Murray said it had been found to be not relevant but I need to look for where I saw that.

Kristin83
09-17-2008, 02:53 PM
The sightings - especially the one from the woman who claims she saw Maura at a convenience store mouthing help me to her. How different things could be right now if the woman had.

Coming out of lurk mode to say I've always been baffled as to why the woman didn't do anything. It kills me to think that could have been Maura.

gaia227
09-18-2008, 10:39 AM
It baffles me too. I just don't understand how you could turn your back and walk away. It isn't like she had to confront them or soemthing. She could have pretended she had forgotten to get something in the store and went down an aisle and called 911 or gone to the bathroom, etc. She didn't even call 911 when she got outside. I'm sure she felt like she could be wrong, she didn't want to interfere, etc but even if she was wrong - who cares. If she was right in what she saw she could have saved someone's life. I am sure she lives with that guilt everyday.

I am also baffled at how a guy on a subway can get beaten with a hammer and everyone just stands there and acts like nothing is happening. It is a similar phenomena.

OriginalJerseyGirl
09-18-2008, 09:34 PM
I am also baffled at how a guy on a subway can get beaten with a hammer and everyone just stands there and acts like nothing is happening. It is a similar phenomena.
Hi gaia. I just wanted to mention two things regarding that case, (I assume you're talking about the case in Philly).

1) It was announced today that the attacker was found incompetent to stand trial.

2) The man that was seen on the video was interviewed by the news yesterday and he said that he was yelling to the guy to stop, that the police were coming, etc., hoping that there was something he could say to get the guy to stop. He didn't step in physically because he said that he felt there was no way to do so without getting hit himself. But from the reports, he seemed sincere when he said that he did whatever he could think of to do while still keeping himself out of harm's way.

OriginalJerseyGirl
09-18-2008, 09:35 PM
Welcome Kristin! :)

Kristin83
09-19-2008, 02:25 PM
Welcome Kristin! :)

Thanks Jersey Girl! You and I live right near each other. :)

OriginalJerseyGirl
09-24-2008, 04:04 PM
Thanks Jersey Girl! You and I live right near each other. :)
I always enjoy meeting "neighbors" here on WS! I'm originally from Philly but live about 10 miles outside of Philly for about 13 years now.

gaia227
09-24-2008, 04:12 PM
Thx JerseyGirl - I was referring to the incident in Philly. I didn't see the interview with the man on the train. At least someone tried to do something.

Are you close to Mt. Laurel, NJ? I have a good friend who lives in Somerdale, NJ.

OriginalJerseyGirl
09-28-2008, 09:33 AM
Gaia, I deleted my post and sent it to you in a PM. I felt like I might have been hijacking the thread with my off-topic conversation.

Peabody
10-09-2008, 07:47 AM
Remembering Maura -----

Today, October 9, 2008 ----- MISSING 4 YEARS 8 months

NSC
10-10-2008, 01:58 PM
Please forgive me if this theory has been brought up already but I didn't see it posted anywhere.

Let's say she was walking down the street for help and was accidentally hit by a car -- the driver of the car could have been an everyday joe or an actual police officer -- they decide to cover it up and dispose of her body. If it was a police officer this might be where the lack of investigation comes in. Just a thought.

lilacwine
10-11-2008, 02:32 PM
Please forgive me if this theory has been brought up already but I didn't see it posted anywhere.

Let's say she was walking down the street for help and was accidentally hit by a car -- the driver of the car could have been an everyday joe or an actual police officer -- they decide to cover it up and dispose of her body. If it was a police officer this might be where the lack of investigation comes in. Just a thought.

I've read a theory like that... I don't know if it was here or on another site.... Frustrating for us... UNBEARABLE for her family and friends.

nnglas
10-11-2008, 02:39 PM
I've always thought that the reason why Maura left school is very important. I just don't think that a random stranger took her. I think that her leaving school like she did was out of character for her. But it seems that the attention has always been focused on what happened on that road that her car was found on. I just think that whatever became of Maura started at that school.

lilacwine
10-11-2008, 06:26 PM
I've always thought that the reason why Maura left school is very important. I just don't think that a random stranger took her. I think that her leaving school like she did was out of character for her. But it seems that the attention has always been focused on what happened on that road that her car was found on. I just think that whatever became of Maura started at that school.


I live in NH and sometime after her disappearance a trooper was killed by a man and then the man was killed by another person. There has been controversy and gossip about the man who killed the shooter. There are rumors that the man who killed the shooter is himself a sketchy character. (Some subsequent brushes with the law support this)

Anyways... there's a local blog that suggests Maura's disappearance could have been at the hands of the shooter's kid. Apparently there's some property nearby.

The local blog is quite compelling to read... (you'd have to do a search for Kingscast or kingcast) but so many of the theories the author spouts are pretty fantastic. I don't know how to separate the rumor from fact.

soyesterday
10-11-2008, 08:53 PM
I live in NH and sometime after her disappearance a trooper was killed by a man and then the man was killed by another person. There has been controversy and gossip about the man who killed the shooter. There are rumors that the man who killed the shooter is himself a sketchy character. (Some subsequent brushes with the law support this)

Anyways... there's a local blog that suggests Maura's disappearance could have been at the hands of the shooter's kid. Apparently there's some property nearby.

The local blog is quite compelling to read... (you'd have to do a search for Kingscast or kingcast) but so many of the theories the author spouts are pretty fantastic. I don't know how to separate the rumor from fact.

I live in NH too...i remember that story too i think...it was a strange story..
i've never heard the idea about his son being involved....
strange...
was there a motive for him???

lilacwine
10-11-2008, 09:12 PM
I live in NH too...i remember that story too i think...it was a strange story..
i've never heard the idea about his son being involved....
strange...
was there a motive for him???

It's been awhile since I read the blog... but I believe the crux of the rumors were sexual......

soyesterday
10-11-2008, 09:34 PM
It's been awhile since I read the blog... but I believe the crux of the rumors were sexual......

ohhh i see...
do you know if anyone has looked into this?

lilacwine
10-11-2008, 10:01 PM
I don't know... King definitely has written to the AG & says he met with Maura's dad...

I just tried to search back and find the board... but the only one I found isn't up any more. Searches for King + Maura Murray did yield some of his blog postings and some of his allegations about Franconia corruption covering it up.

Personally, I wonder if she ever made it to NH. I don't reject the possibility that it wasn't her in the car in NH and that whatever happened.. happened in MA

TheBugHouse
10-11-2008, 11:23 PM
You guys mean Liko? If so, McKay wasn't a trooper, but a PO out of Franconia. I've read a bunch about MM, and I agree whatever happened started at Amhurst.

lilacwine
10-12-2008, 10:15 AM
You guys mean Liko? If so, McKay wasn't a trooper, but a PO out of Franconia. I've read a bunch about MM, and I agree whatever happened started at Amhurst.


No... not Liko the son of the man who shot Leiko....
Like I said... most of the stuff is very twisted and I'm not sure I consider the source credible.... but... then again some of doesn't seem like it should be brushed off lightly either.

It seems funny that the details in Amherst haven't come out yet... that really makes me suspicious.

Anubis
10-15-2008, 04:25 PM
This is from Wikipedia and other readings I did. I have added my commentary in BLUE.

Thursday, February 5, 2004

10:20 PM - Maura talks on the phone with her older sister during a slow time during Maura's work (UMass Student Security). The two talk about guy problems (what kind of guy problems?) in what is described as a normal sisterly conversation. Maura's sister observes nothing abnormal in Maura.

Friday, February 6, 2004

1:00 AM - Maura receives a phone call at work, becomes upset early in the morning and is escorted back to her dorm room by her supervisor. Was this phone call traced?

Saturday, February 7, 2004

Time unknown - Accompanied with her father Fred, Maura goes used car shopping. She has not used her black 1996 Saturn much recently due to mechanical problems and has instead been getting rides from friends.
Time unknown - Maura and her father are joined by one of her female friends for dinner at an Amherst restaurant.
Time unknown - Maura drops her father off at his hotel room, and then borrows his brand new Toyota Corolla and goes back to the UMass campus to a dorm party with her friend.

Sunday, February 8, 2004

2:30 AM - Maura leaves her friend's dorm and heads to her father's hotel room.
3:30 AM - Maura hits a guardrail while driving her father's Corolla on Route 9 in Hadley. No charges are filed by the police. Damages total $8,000. Her father observes that she is shaken up and apologetic. [2] Was she intoxicated from the dorm party? Or did she simply lose control of the car in the snow (again?)

4:49 AM - Maura calls her boyfriend, who is stationed in Oklahoma, from her father's cell phone. What did they discuss?
Time unknown - Fred makes some telephone calls and informs Maura that his auto insurance should cover the damages.
Time unknown - Fred rents a car, drops Maura off at UMass, and heads to Connecticut for work.
8:30 PM - Maura checks her cellphone voice messages, most likely via her cellphone.
11:26 PM - Maura talks to her father and agrees to get the necessary forms pertaining to the accident from the registry on Monday. They agree to discuss the forms via telephone Monday night.
Time unknown - Maura searches for directions to Burlington, Vermont. (From New Hampshire State Police Troop F Commander Lt. John Scarinza's inspection of Maura's computer hard drive).
Time unknown - Maura searches for information on the Berkshires. (Source unknown).
Monday, February 9, 2004

12:55 PM - Maura calls for information about a condominium in Bartlett, New Hampshire that her family is familiar with. The call lasts for three minutes. No condominium is rented.
1:00 PM - Maura sends her boyfriend an e-mail, briefly stating she hasn't felt like talking to anyone, but that she will call him later in the day. was this email turned over to the police?
1:13 PM - Maura calls another student and leaves a voicemail. No significant information.
2:05 PM - Maura calls 800-GOSTOWE for approximately 5 minutes. Later research shows this number was out of order on this day and that only recordings were available for listening.
2:18 PM - Maura calls her boyfriend for approximately 1 minute. did they speak or did she leave a voicemail?

4:00 PM or earlier - Maura e-mails one of her bosses and some of her teachers to inform them that there has been a death in her family and that she would be out of town for several days. There is no death in her family. (What an odd thing to say, commenting on a "death in her family", perhaps a subliminal message as to how she was feeling? Where are these emails?)

3:30 PM - 4:30 PM - A dorm mate reportedly sees Maura leave the UMass Amherst campus.
4:00 PM or earlier - Maura goes to an ATM and withdraws $280 from her account. Video surveillance footage shows her to be alone. Her bank account is left nearly empty. She is due to receive paychecks from her job in the coming days.
4:00 PM or earlier - Maura purchases $35-$40 in alcohol while still in Amherst, Massachusetts. Video surveillance footage shows her to be alone. That's a lot of alcohol, certainly more than one box of Franzia wine
4:00 PM or later - Maura apparently leaves Amherst, Massachusetts and likely heads up Interstate 91 north.
4:37 PM - Maura checks her cellphone voice messages.
7:29 PM - Dispatch receives a call from a Woodsville, NH area resident who reports an accident near her house on Route 112.
7:43 PM - Dispatch receives a call from another Woodsville, NH area resident who reports a black Saturn partially in the road.
7:46 PM - First known police officer (Haverhill Police) arrives on the scene. The girl who was seen by second caller is nowhere to be found. The officer notes the car is facing westbound in the eastbound lane, with a cracked windshield and two deployed airbags. A damaged box of Franzia wine is found on the passengers seat. Other items found in the car include her AAA card, the insurance forms she retrieved for her earlier accident, her gloves, music CDs, her makeup, directions for Burlington, Vermont and Stowe, Vermont, and the Nicholas Howe book, Not Without Peril.(she's reading a book about people who have come into danger in the mountains where she was headed) A rag from Maura's emergency roadside kit was discovered stuffed into the Saturn's muffler pipe. (you can do this for two reasons, one is a misdirected suicide attampt, the other is to get the engine to shut off if you can't do so by any other means)
7:56 PM - EMS arrives on scene.
7:57 PM - A fire truck arrives on scene.
7:57 PM - 8:49 PM - At some point, Maura's car is towed to a local auto repair garage.
8:02 PM - EMS clears the scene.
9:27 PM - The first known police officer to arrive on scene is dispatched to another call.
Tuesday, February 10, 2004

12:36 PM - A BOL (Be On the Lookout) for Maura Murray is issued to Grafton, Littleton, Haverhill, and Lisbon.
3:20 PM - A voicemail is left on Maura's father's (Fred Murray's) home answering machine stating that his car (the Saturn Maura drove) was found abandoned near Woodsville, New Hampshire. Fred is at work out of state and does not receive this call until later in the day.
5:00 PM - 5:30 PM - Maura's older sister contacts Fred and tells him that Maura's car has been found abandoned.
5:44 PM - Fred Murray contacts the Haverhill, New Hampshire Police Department and begs them to start a search for Maura. The Police Department declines, citing that they do not start searches late in the day. The Police Department informs Fred that if Maura is not reported safe by the following morning, New Hampshire Fish and Game Service will start a search.
6:46 PM - Maura's family members contact the University of Massachusetts Police Department and request that her dormitory room be checked.

[edit] Timeline of Search Efforts
Wednesday, February 11, 2004

Time unknown - Maura's father Fred Murray arrives before dawn in Haverhill, New Hampshire to beg police to start a search for his daughter.
8:00 AM - New Hampshire Fish and Game Service, the Murrays, and others begin to search for Maura, over 36 hours after her disappearance.
Time unknown - A police canine in the investigation tracks the scent from one of Maura's (rarely used) black leather gloves. The dog follows the scent 100 yards east from the location of where the vehicle, in the direction of a resident's house. It is not known if this was in fact Maura walking, being dragged, or a belonging of hers being dragged. It is implied that she or the item may have been picked up or placed in a vehicle at the end of the scent trail. It is also possible that the scent had vanished due to the incident happening nearly two days earlier. that is the most likely. Search dogs often lose the trail and sometimes miss it altogether
5:00 PM - Maura's boyfriend and his parents arrive at the Haverhill, New Hampshire Police Department from Oklahoma and Ohio. Her boyfriend is interrogated in private, and then joined by his parents for questioning.
7:00 PM - The police report to both Maura's and her boyfriend's families that they believe Maura came to the area to either run away or commit suicide. The family does not believe this to be likely.
Time unknown - Maura's boyfriend receives a voicemail message that he believes is the sound of Maura sobbing. His cellphone had been turned off so that he could pass through airport security on his way to help search for Maura. A New Hampshire State Police investigation traced the call to a calling card issued to the American Red Cross. Many believe this call was actually from Maura, not the American Red Cross, as it is unknown how the Red Cross would have his mobile number or why they would leave a voicemail with no actual message. The voicemail has since been deleted. This is incredulous. First of all, the ARC issued phone cards to people who need help and ask for them so it seems likely it was Maura. The fact that no one else heard the message and it has been deleted it unbelievable

I know this is a long post but I just wanted to post a factual timeline. It seems very clear to me that Maura was having boyfriend problems, had a drinking problem and wanted to get away for awhile (maybe permanently). I know it is difficult to accept for the family but honestly, this seems the most plausible. If she wandered off in the snow, after having been drinking, she could have easily succumbed to the elements. There are some unanswered questions but even so, in my opinion, she walked away into the winter night and has passed on.

lilacwine
10-15-2008, 05:33 PM
I think saying she has a drinking problem based on a wikipedia summary is unfair.

She was in college. Her behavior during a small time should not be used, in my opinion, to make a determination such as that.

MaedchenX
10-15-2008, 05:51 PM
I know this is a long post but I just wanted to post a factual timeline. It seems very clear to me that Maura was having boyfriend problems, had a drinking problem and wanted to get away for awhile (maybe permanently). I know it is difficult to accept for the family but honestly, this seems the most plausible. If she wandered off in the snow, after having been drinking, she could have easily succumbed to the elements. There are some unanswered questions but even so, in my opinion, she walked away into the winter night and has passed on.

Thank you for that Anubis. I was a freshman at Umass when Maura disappeared and have been following her case for some time. Without saying too much, I will just state that I don't think Maura was the victim of a crime. I really hope her family will someday get the answers they deserve.

MCDRAW
10-15-2008, 05:53 PM
I think saying she has a drinking problem based on a wikipedia summary is unfair.

She was in college. Her behavior during a small time should not be used, in my opinion, to make a determination such as that.


I agree.

hmg
10-15-2008, 09:00 PM
It seems funny that the details in Amherst haven't come out yet... that really makes me suspicious.

Just curious about which details you're referring to?

We do know Maura bought alcohol and went to an ATM in Amherst... according to a timeline I saw she checked her messages at 4:37. Is there anyway of checking where she was at that point from cell phone records? Since I live in the area I can say with some certainty she would have been around Greenfield, MA/ the Vermont border by 4:37 if she left at 4:00. Any other forms of identification of her between 4 and 7:40?

In the event that something happened in Amherst, why would the tow truck guy report that it was Maura in the car?

lilacwine
10-16-2008, 06:25 AM
Thank you for that Anubis. I was a freshman at Umass when Maura disappeared and have been following her case for some time. Without saying too much, I will just state that I don't think Maura was the victim of a crime. I really hope her family will someday get the answers they deserve.


I don't want this to sound confrontational...

But, did you know Maura? Or is your basis on rumors?

Either way if you actually know something I would hope you would have shared it with LE or the family.

gaia227
10-16-2008, 12:26 PM
HMG - what do you mean by your last sentence about the tow-truck driver?

I thought the last person to see and speak to Maura was the bus driver.

hmg
10-16-2008, 01:11 PM
My mistake, I did mean the bus driver, Butch Atwood.

MaedchenX
10-16-2008, 03:33 PM
I don't want this to sound confrontational...

But, did you know Maura? Or is your basis on rumors?

Either way if you actually know something I would hope you would have shared it with LE or the family.

I understand your feelings, and I would certainly never hold back on any information that I thought could be of use.

I never met or knew Maura, but I know those who did and were questioned by authorities, both students and administrators. To my knowledge there is no information I have heard second hand that has not been made public.

That said, I am basing my opinion on the same information available to anyone else. The one thing that I have never been able to get out of my mind was how brutally cold that February was, unseasonably so even for New England.

gaia227
10-16-2008, 04:18 PM
I agree.


So do I. By all accounts Maura would have a few drinks socially - usually Franzia - but was not someone who drink alot or often. That is what makes her purchase of that much alcohol, the open Franzia box in the car and the cup with traces of wine it very strange. I don't think Maura was the type to drink and drive and the fact that she was indicates (at least to me) that she was under great stress.

It is Maura's actions leading up to her disappearence that make her case so intriguing and so damn frustrating.

The voicemail on her BF's phone is so eerie. I remember somewhere someone posted an interview with the BF's mom(I think) and she had listened to it and also thought it sounded like a girl who sounded very cold and upset. The fact it was deleted is just too ridiculous for words. The fact LE so quickly wrote it off as a call from the Red Cross is even more ridiculous.

gaia227
10-16-2008, 04:19 PM
There are two Maura threads....does anyone else agree that it would be advantageous to have them combined?

lilacwine
10-16-2008, 07:55 PM
It's just that... the school I work in was in "lockdown" today because of a potential armed robbery across the street. The rumors that flew... the things people say they saw are all over the board.

I learned a very important lesson today that eyewitnesses...and such... really... not all that helpful in some cases and rumors can really distract from facts.

And I think it would be helpful to combine threads.

MagicRose99
10-17-2008, 06:26 AM
There are two Maura threads....does anyone else agree that it would be advantageous to have them combined?

This thread is in the area for "information and support". The other thread is in the area for "discussion". There is a difference, believe it or not... This area is suppose to be "safe" for family / friends to read if they so choose. The other area is more for the "nitty gritty" details that the family can avoid if that is their preference.

Peabody
11-09-2008, 03:23 PM
Remembering Maura -----

Today, November 9, 2008 ----- MISSING 4 YEARS 9 months

PRAYING for answers

belimom
11-11-2008, 11:38 AM
I just heard about this case in the past few days and have spent many hours reading everything I could about it (thanks to lying in bed sick...). Thank you, Peabody and others, who have kept interest in this case going. For some reason, it has stuck in my mind as well - what happened?!?

Here are a few notes from someone "fresh" to the case (just my impressions, not stated as fact):

1- not suicide or accidental: her body would've been found by now

2- she more than likely had a head injury, making her more easily preyed upon (stranger? bus driver? construction worker?)

3- bus driver's wife seems to be pointing finger AWAY from her husband. Paraphrasing her: "Oh she would not have gone with him - no way - he's too scary - so no need to look down that path." Why is she so quick to deflect interest away from her husband?

4- leaving school voluntarily does not equate to disappearing forever voluntarily

5- no helper. They would've come forward by now.

6- Someone could have taken her, not meaning to kill her but take advantage of her (sexually). B/c of head injury, she could have died.

7- Hard to believe the bus driver didn't have a radio on his bus that could be used to call for help, instead of going home. Since cell phones reportedly don't work in that area, then surely he had some form of communication with him: point being, he did not have to go home to call 911. And anybody could tell that a young girl from out-of-state on a dark night after an accident, with a cracked windshield, was in no state to be left alone, whether waiting for AAA or not. Anyone wanting to help would've stayed with her.

I'm not saying the bus driver killed her or even harmed her, but something about his story isn't right. Same with construction worker. JMHO.

I hope the family has closure someday and that justice is served...

Shecky
11-19-2008, 06:39 PM
Bumping for Maura. I wish that we knew what happened to her.

geojeffrey
11-20-2008, 09:37 PM
Like Bellimon, I am fairly new to this case. Your opinions sound pretty similar to my own. It seems like there are at least a few clues, unlike so many cases. It sounds like the authorities may be withholding some additional information about this case. There is a long chronology of known events that paints a complicated picture. The chances that she was harmed by an out-of-town stranger seem much more remote. The person who did this had some familiarity with the area and some way of blending in--and not be noticed by anyone. I live in a rural and low populated area. It is hard to imagine that whatever happenned to her was NOT witnessed by someone or even a few people. The perpetrator was part of the ordinary routine and the timing and location he was on the road was not remarkable -- most witnesses would have glanced at the perps vehicle and recognized it as a normal vehicle at this time of the day during the work week.

An alternate perp-explanation may be that she had a date planned with some unidentified person who caused her disappearance. Thiis seems less likely because she was not heading to the location of her 'wreck.' She was heading elsewhere--and this person would not have known the area--unless he tricked her to driving through--which seems very unlikely. What happenned to Maura happenned in the general area of the wreck.

hellolisakitty
11-25-2008, 12:03 PM
CNN has the story on their main page as a Cold Case this morning.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/11/25/grace.coldcase.murray/index.html

gaia227
11-25-2008, 01:44 PM
Thanks for the link. I had no idea.

It is the number one read story today! That is great. More exposure the better. $40,000 is a lot of money.

TheBugHouse
11-25-2008, 04:37 PM
Nice catch, I visit cnn.com many times daily and would've never seen that. It says Nancy Grace will be reviewing Maura’s story @ 8 & 10PM, as hardly tolerable I find NG I'll be tuning in to see. Did anyone else see Ben Franklins post on another thread about his suspicion that Brian Rooney had something to do with Maura’s disappearance?

gaia227
11-25-2008, 05:54 PM
Nice catch, I visit cnn.com many times daily and would've never seen that. It says Nancy Grace will be reviewing Maura’s story @ 8 & 10PM, as hardly tolerable I find NG I'll be tuning in to see. Did anyone else see Ben Franklins post on another thread about his suspicion that Brian Rooney had something to do with Maura’s disappearance?

You mean Nancy Grace is going to cover a story besides Caylee Anthony? I am amazed. I find her insufferable too. I also find it really annoying that all the woman has talked about for months is Caylee. We all want to find Caylee but there are thousands of other missing children who need attention too.

No, I did not read what Ben said. I am assuming it was on the Topix board. i had to take a break because of all the constant bickering between posters. The time frame fits and the location is right. Interesting.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Rooney

Shecky
11-26-2008, 12:28 AM
So, I tuned into Nancy's show tonight (even though she annoys me on several levels) and all I saw was more Caylee coverage. Did she mention Maura and I just missed it?

Bobbisangel
11-26-2008, 04:40 AM
So, I tuned into Nancy's show tonight (even though she annoys me on several levels) and all I saw was more Caylee coverage. Did she mention Maura and I just missed it?


I don't think that you missed anything. I watch it every night just in case she covers someone else. Tonight she covered a gal named Nadia who is a mom and is missing. Don't know what she is covering on Weds but Thurs and Fri are going to be about Caylee...Thurs the first half of the time she has been missing and Fri the 2nd half of the time she has been missing. I don't understand why she doesn't devote at least half of the hour to someone else.
We all care about Caylee but like you said...there are a lot of other people who are missing and need coverage. Greta seems to be all about politics now so there is only Nancy who is covering topics like this.

Waddles
11-27-2008, 11:13 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maura_Murray

Hi All

Sorry if this has been discussed, but what might be a reason to put a rag in a muffler? Has it been tested for DNA?

Could she have been followed by someone in the car?

Were the local guy and his girlfriend who were acting suspiciously interviewed or the knife tested for DNA?

Why were no tests done after the dogs hit on the closet of the house?

What link could she have had with the Red Cross -how can it be known that a calling card was issued to the Red Cross-how does that work?

Was the boyfriend completely cleared of suspicion?

I find this case extremely mysterious

dee10134
11-29-2008, 02:33 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maura_Murray

Hi All

Sorry if this has been discussed, but what might be a reason to put a rag in a muffler? Has it been tested for DNA?

Could she have been followed by someone in the car?

Were the local guy and his girlfriend who were acting suspiciously interviewed or the knife tested for DNA?

Why were no tests done after the dogs hit on the closet of the house?

What link could she have had with the Red Cross -how can it be known that a calling card was issued to the Red Cross-how does that work?

Was the boyfriend completely cleared of suspicion?

I find this case extremely mysterious

Putting a rag in your tailpipe will keep out vermin, such as mice or rats that are looking for a place to nest. I've also heard that a rag in your tailpipe is a signal that the car is not running and is also a signal of distress.

Also, putting a rag over the tailpipe will cause the car to stall out because of lack of oxygen intake to the engine. Maybe it's possible that someone with dubious intentions saw Maura going into a convenience mart and stuffed the rag in the tailpipe in hopes of her car stalling out so they could "rescue" her........

dannyodie
11-29-2008, 06:39 PM
Putting a rag in your tailpipe will keep out vermin, such as mice or rats that are looking for a place to nest. I've also heard that a rag in your tailpipe is a signal that the car is not running and is also a signal of distress.

Also, putting a rag over the tailpipe will cause the car to stall out because of lack of oxygen intake to the engine. Maybe it's possible that someone with dubious intentions saw Maura going into a convenience mart and stuffed the rag in the tailpipe in hopes of her car stalling out so they could "rescue" her........


Also, putting a rag over the tailpipe will cause the car to stall out because of lack of oxygen intake to the engine.

only for the record, a rag obstructing the tailpipe prevents the engine from expelling burned gases which will cause the engine from starting

goatiegoat
11-29-2008, 07:07 PM
numerous sources say rag belonged to her car emergency kit

dee10134
11-29-2008, 07:50 PM
numerous sources say rag belonged to her car emergency kit

Yeah, but someone asked WHY it was in her tailpipe. I really should go back and reread the case history, but I just have this feeling that someone plugged it in an effort to make her stall out...

goatiegoat
11-29-2008, 11:29 PM
not meaning to argue but, that doesn't ring true to me.how does unk. person get rag from her emergency kit to make her stall. not saying its not physically possible but where when or how. not adding up.

Pandora
11-30-2008, 09:03 AM
Ex-boyfriend, maybe? "Friend" who previously borrowed the car?
I can buy the whole "plug the muffler in hopes of a stall" scenario. I once had two tires slashed at a NC rest stop. The slashes were not the whole way through. My dad found them while washing my car when I got home to PA. We had to replace both tires. About two weeks or so after that AMW had a story about women who were having their tires partially slashed at rest-stops in NC & VA, then being raped by "good Samaritans." My dad totally freaked, bought me a Lady S&W, and got me a carry permit. :(

TheBugHouse
11-30-2008, 10:24 PM
The rag in the tailpipe has been a source of controversy. It's been theorized that it was either a distress signal, or stuffed in an effort to stall Mauras Saturn. I'll say that it's almost impossible to stall a vehicle by stuffing a rag up the tailpipe. The engine creates far to much compression, the rag would have to be stuffed al the way in, very tightly and held in place with a stick or something in order to stall the motor. Although someone may have attempted this, I would guess it's not what stopped the engine.

Peabody
12-10-2008, 03:58 AM
Tuesday, December 9, 2008

Maura has been missing 4 years and 10 months

..........remembering and praying for answers

Peabody
12-10-2008, 03:59 AM
Tuesday, December 9, 2008

Maura has been missing 4 years and 10 months

..........remembering and praying for answers

Peabody
12-10-2008, 04:03 AM
Remembering Maura and praying for answers

this Tuesday, December 9, 2008


Maura has been missing 4 years and 10 months today

Bobbisangel
12-10-2008, 07:34 AM
I really want to see this case resolved. I would really like to know what happened to this beautiful young lady. This case is such a mystery in so many ways. I wonder where she was going and why. Was she meeting someone or just wanted to be by herself? Why did her car end up where it did? Did a cop come by and offer to help her get help? So many questions and no answers. I can't even imagine what life has been like for her family over the past years with no answers, no body, and no justice.

GoodAim
12-20-2008, 12:07 PM
Hi all, I don't know if anyone's already posted this, but a new forum started up over the last few days dedicated to Maura Murray:

http://findmauramurray.21.forumer.com/index.php

It has pictures, facts, references, links, timelines, and a lot of helpful stuff. People have begun posting there and I do see new information and directions emerging!

flalady
12-21-2008, 06:23 AM
does anyone wonder if maura tried to call her boyfriend for help. maybe she couldnt say anything on the phone ? it sounds like she was upset and was crying alot on the phone. was she kidnapped while walking on the hwy or did she hitchhiked?. there is alot of questions that needs to be answered.also i thought i read when a vehicle approached which was a bus driver. he tried to help her but she declined his help. i think they need to check more into his story. somebody could have picked her up and something terribly happen to her.

skyatnight
01-18-2009, 04:30 PM
I've been reading a lot about this case and have a couple of questions. I read were someone called her and upset her so bad that her boss had to walk her back to her dorm room. Did they ever figure out who made that telephone call?
I find the eye witness accounts to strange. They couldn't tell the difference between a man smoking a cigerette and a woman on the telephone. I really hope Maura's family gets the answers their looking for.

hmg
02-05-2009, 07:14 PM
I've been reading a lot about this case and have a couple of questions. I read were someone called her and upset her so bad that her boss had to walk her back to her dorm room. Did they ever figure out who made that telephone call?

Supposedly this is a misinterpreted point (like so many things in this case). The telephone calls from her sister were made earlier that night and the reason Maura began crying later remains unclear-- http://www.whitmanhansonexpress.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=48:maura-is-missing-part-i-the-departure&catid=912

Edit: I should say that it is possible she did receive a call but that has not been confirmed that the call was what made her cry and it seems like there may not even have been a call at al..

Peabody
02-09-2009, 01:25 PM
On a Monday, February 9, 2004, Maura Murray want missing.

Today, 5 years later:

Still No Answers!


Praying for Maura and those who love her.

Peabody
02-09-2009, 01:28 PM
On a Monday, February 9, 2004, Maura Murray want missing.

Today, 5 years later:

Still No Answers!


Praying for Maura and those who love her.

IWannaKnow
02-09-2009, 03:54 PM
Could someone direct me to the report of Maura being sighted in the convenience store, mouthing "help me"? Where was this convenience store and how far from where she went missing? I would really like to read that report. I live within easy driving distance of where Maura went missing and would like to maybe do some sleuthing of my own.

TIA

CanManEh
02-09-2009, 05:02 PM
you can also put the rag in and the car might choke up but it will still run it will just keep missing but m suggestion would be carbon monoxide would come all through your car if it infact stayed running wouldnt take her long to pass out maybe thats why she hit the tree she was going in and out of conciousness..

gaia227
02-09-2009, 05:21 PM
I can't believe it has been five long years already. There are several articles regarding this milestone anniversary, none of them really say anything we haven't heard but it is nice to know that some of the public is remembering this date.


http://www.myfoxboston.com/dpp/news/local/020709_Few_leads_on_MA_student_missing_5_years

http://www.cmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?Date=20090209&Category=NEWS01&ArtNo=902090372&Template=printart

Peabody
02-09-2009, 08:48 PM
On a Monday, February 9, 2004, at just about this very time,

Maura Murray want missing.

Today, 5 years later:

Still No Answers!


Praying for Maura and those who love her.

LillyRush
02-09-2009, 11:12 PM
5 years is too long. I hope that both MA and NH le are still taking her disappearance seriously and pursuing the investigation.


On a Monday, February 9, 2004, at just about this very time,

Maura Murray want missing.

Today, 5 years later:

Still No Answers!


Praying for Maura and those who love her.

Miss Ella
02-16-2009, 12:59 PM
Does anybody else think that Maura Murray committed suicide?? I've thought this- almost from the beginning... this nagging feeling that she chose to end her life. It is believed that she was overwhelmed and over stressed at school.. she lied to people at school, saying that their was a family emergency.. death in the family, something like that. Seems to me like she couldn't deal and ran away to try to figure out what her next step would be.. Would explain the suspected drinking and driving she was doing.. when she was last seen, alive and near her vehicle. (It has been said that there were liquor bottles found near the crash site where her car was found). There was a book in her vehicle regarding hiking in the mountains. Perhaps she hiked up the mountain and jumped at some point.. or maybe she fell. I have always believed in the suicide theory, or perhaps a hiking accident that caused her death. I have never ever believed that she met with foul play.. and there isn't any evidence to say that she was abducted or anything. I am originally from NH, not far from where she was last seen.. and this area is so rural that I will never, for as long as I live, believe that she was abducted in this area. All that is known points to her being depressed.. and overwhelmed, and I can't fight this feeling that her father was an overbearing man.. that she was forced into her major, and rather than face her father as a failure, she ended her own life. I believe that her father chooses to believe the foul play theory, because the alternative is just too aweful to bare... Fact! SHE chose to leave school, Fact! SHE is the one who lied to school faculty, and Fact! SHE is the one who willingly left school grounds with no explanation. SHE is ultimately the one who was responsible for her own fate. Remember.. the fact that she did not leave a suicide note does not matter. She did leave a note (the family will not discuss exactly what was in the note), not everybody who commits suicide leaves a suicide note. And we can't believe everything we see in Hollywood movies regarding young pretty damsels in distress being kidnapped off a rural road, 99.9% of the time- this does not happen!!

Also, If her family will not publish exactly what was said in Maura's final letter that was left in her dorm room.. I wonder what it is that THEY are hiding. And, why do you think AMW did not wish to broadcast a story about Maura Murray?? It is because all evidence suggests that she ran away.. and was NOT a victim of Foul Play.

Hope4Lost
02-16-2009, 01:25 PM
If you know Maura and her family soooo well.. can you explain why she took off??? And.. yes, all evidence points to her leaving of her own accord. If she were so unhappy with school- yet happy with her family.. common sense would suggest that she would've escaped school to be with her parents. NOT, take off and go to NH where she didn't know anything. There is a lot you DO NOT know, there is a lot that none of us know about this case- and for you to scold somebody for their opinions (last I checked, we all have the right to our opinions in the United States of America!!), is just disgusting!! The people closest to this case, ie: friends and family of Maura Murray are so closed minded that this case will most likely NEVER be solved because they will not accept any other theory but FOUL PLAY- which there is absolutely no evidence of! It is more likely that she took off and either committed suicide or died accidentally. Don't ignore the fact that she did TAKE OFF on her own, and lied to faculty staff as to why she was leaving.. she was obviously running away... she was not abducted. FACE THE FACTS.

Your kid disappears, what are you going to do? Stop looking? I think not.

Miss Ella
02-16-2009, 01:32 PM
Your kid disappears, what are you going to do? Stop looking? I think not.

No.. I wouldn't stop looking, but I would be realistic too. Seems to me like they choose to believe what they want to believe and ignore the facts that she ran away. I know that it is difficult to believe that your child may have committed suicide... but someday they will need to own up to that possibility..

My brother-in-law committed suicide when he was 21 y/o.. he did not have a suicide note, but being that he was home alone and hanging from a chandelier.. made it all that much harder to deny.. Had he taken off and chosen to die somewhere else, we would probably be wondering too...

Hope4Lost
02-16-2009, 01:39 PM
It's true that suicide is a common cause of death among college age students. However, it's likely that most people who choose to commit suicide do not leave this many unanswered questions.

Jmo, there is much more evidence to suggest that foul play is involved. Yes, it seems that Maura left on her own accord, and perhaps she even had suicide in mind. However, there is no body. Most of the time when there is a suicide, there is a body. fwiw

P. S. Miss Ella, I'm so sorry that your family had to endure such tragedy. Suicide has to be one of the hardest things for a family to ever deal with.

Miss Ella
02-16-2009, 02:02 PM
It's true that suicide is a common cause of death among college age students. However, it's likely that most people who choose to commit suicide do not leave this many unanswered questions.

Jmo, there is much more evidence to suggest that foul play is involved. Yes, it seems that Maura left on her own accord, and perhaps she even had suicide in mind. However, there is no body. Most of the time when there is a suicide, there is a body. fwiw

P. S. Miss Ella, I'm so sorry that your family had to endure such tragedy. Suicide has to be one of the hardest things for a family to ever deal with.
However.. if Maura died in the Mountains- it is very likely that her remains would have been devoured by bears, coyotes, etc. If she died in the Mountains, or fell in a Lake or something- chances are (after 5 yrs) there would be no body to recover..
On occasion, I watch Forensic Detectives on A&E and there are times when after several years maybe scattered bones would be discovered, at most.. if anything at all..

CastlesBurning
02-23-2009, 12:41 PM
Wow, five years already...I can hardly believe it. I remember when the story first broke, feeling it was "closer" than many others, bc of the proximity of CT to MA/NH, and my age to Maura's.

I hate to say it, but at this point, it may well be that nothing further will ever be uncovered...or if it is, probably accidentally/coincidentally, i.e. a camper stumbling across a bit of something. *sighs*

gaia227
02-27-2009, 04:10 PM
I believe that her father chooses to believe the foul play theory, because the alternative is just too aweful to bare... Fact! SHE chose to leave school, Fact! SHE is the one who lied to school faculty, and Fact! SHE is the one who willingly left school grounds with no explanation. SHE is ultimately the one who was responsible for her own fate. Remember.. the fact that she did not leave a suicide note does not matter. She did leave a note (the family will not discuss exactly what was in the note), not everybody who commits suicide leaves a suicide note. And we can't believe everything we see in Hollywood movies regarding young pretty damsels in distress being kidnapped off a rural road, 99.9% of the time- this does not happen!!

Also, If her family will not publish exactly what was said in Maura's final letter that was left in her dorm room.. I wonder what it is that THEY are hiding. And, why do you think AMW did not wish to broadcast a story about Maura Murray?? It is because all evidence suggests that she ran away.. and was NOT a victim of Foul Play.

I'm sorry but several things listed here are NOT facts! You BELIEVE her father chooses to believe it is foul play and not suicide because it is too awful to bear - that is not a fact, that is an opinion. Saying she is ultimately responsible for her fate is not known at this time. If she was abducted and killed then her fate would not be in her hands.

The family has a right to privacy and if they do not want to publish what was said in the note Maura left that is their choice. If it was a suicide note I don't think her family would still be deadset on the idea that Maura was taken.

Personally, I think you are being pretty presumptious and unnecessarily aggressive.

Oh, I just noticed this poster has been banned...oh well.

belimom
02-27-2009, 06:07 PM
Leaving voluntarily does not equate to dying voluntarily. And even if she died out there somewhere and her body fell prey to wild animals, there would be *something* to find - a bone here and there, articles of clothing, etc. A person doesn't simply vanish into thin air.

Wish the person I'm addressing could read this, but I guess it's better that she (or he?) is banned.

Peabody
02-28-2009, 05:21 AM
Does anybody else think that Maura Murray committed suicide??

At this point no one can deny the possibility of Maura taking her own life. However, as a close friend of both the family and mutual friends of Maura, I assure you we have considered *every* possibility: suicide, run-a-way, hypothermia and foul play. While it may seem morbid, based on all of the available information, hypothermia and foul play seem the most likely. Hypothermia seems less likely than foul play because Maura's body has not been found. Likewise, it would seem most probable that IF she had taken her life, her body would have been found. Most importantly, Maura's case was assigned to the Major Crimes Unit of NH in July of 04. This alone suggests that the state of NH considers foul play. Also, at the court hearing wherein Fred Murray sued for the release of certain documents regarding Maura's case, the attorney representing the NH Attorney General's office stated to the judge that it was his/her opinion that they had a "75% chance of conviction". These are legal facts about Maura's case and there would be no investigation by major crimes or an announcement of a possible conviction IF the state of NH did not believe Maura's missing was tied to foul play. Those of us who love Maura will never give up hope that she may be alive until there is definite evidence that she is not, but KNOWING Maura, it is very difficult to let our hearts rule our heads; our hearts want her living - our hearts are broken, not only because she is missing, but also because our "heads" tell us she is no longer with us in this life.


I've thought this- almost from the beginning... this nagging feeling that she chose to end her life.
It is very understandable that you would have "thought this"...from the beginning....that she chose to end her life." After all, Lt Scarinza of the NH State Police has made suicide the major spin since he first spoke to the media. He went so far as to outright lie about Maura leaving a note in her dorm room. At one time, Scarinza issued a corrected statement on the Vermont Website of missing person's (re: a joint meeting of LE re: Maura and Brianna Maitland) in which he stated the note "was from Maura's boyfriend to her" NOT ***from*** Maura to her boyfriend. I believe this correction has been removed, but you can do an archive search of the Caledonian Record and find an article in July of 04 wherein the mother of the boyfriend is quoted as calliing the NH SP "liars" - although there were other actions/statements by NH LE that she specifically addressed as misleading and untruthful, the repeated annoucement in a special on Boston television by Scarinza (series named What Happened to Maura Murray) aired in May 04 of a note ***from Maura to her boyfriend*** is the reason that Sharon Rausch called out NH LE as "liars". However, IF you had researched the case, you would have read the Caledonian as well as the UMass student newspaper articles in which these "lies" were addressed. And isn't it most interesting that NH LE have not discussed Maura's case with any of the media since July 04? They are always "unavailable for comment". Scarinza made a correction on a website, but NEVER gave a written or oral statement to media in which he repeatedly issued the first misleading reports. Only the Attorney General's office has made any statementssince July 04, and those were re: the lawsuit. Even on the 5th anniversary, the AG's office made a comment that totatally conflicted with their earlier remark about a 75% conviction possibility. What gives with them? None of us know why they will not cooperate with the family. If it is because of Fred Murray, Sharon Rausch, and a few family members and friends informing the public of the misinformation released by LE, then it speaks volumes of their unprofessionalism. Fred Murray has been tarred and feathered by many, but I know for a FACT that for 3 weeks after Maura's missing,he did everything within his power to work with NH LE (yes, he asked the FBI to work with them, but actually the Rausch family brought them into the picture because of the strange phone call received by Billy Rausch that he believed to be Maura sniffing crying and cold) My guess is it would be the rare if not extinct person that would continue to cordially talk with LE about their missing daughter when they are being misquoted by LE to the media, and even denied the time of the accident -- yes this happened -- and was the beginning of Mr Murray even being denied the accident report about HIS car being found on Rt 112.


It is believed that she was overwhelmed and over stressed at school..

Family and friends have no reason to agree when you say "it is believed". Maura loved school; she was on Dean's list. She was extremely intelligent, and while she had to do her work to obtain excellent grades, getting excellent grades was not a difficult thing for her to do.

She *may* have felt overwhelmed and stressed that her boyfriend (unofficially engaged) was stationed in OK as a LT in the army which prevented them from seeing each other as often as they would have liked. And yes, she most likely was very stressed over wrecking her father's car the weekend before her car was found in NH. But, neither of these seem reason for a plan to commit suicide. After all, she could move to OK (she had all ready arranged for a job there in the summer of 2004) and even finish her education there. Aside from feeling quilty over wrecking her father's car, I can't imagine that one would take one's life over such an incident........These reasons could have been the motiviation to "get away" for some thought and mediation and decision making. Many have attested to as about taking time off during their college years - my very own daughter confessing to us much and I never knew! (saying they, lilke Maura, took a trip(s) without informing anyone - the only difference is they were able to come back).



she lied to people at school, saying that their was a family emergency.. death in the family, something like that. Seems to me like she couldn't deal and ran away to try to figure out what her next step would be.. Would explain the suspected drinking and driving she was doing.. when she was last seen, alive and near her vehicle. (It has been said that there were liquor bottles found near the crash site where her car was found).

Yes, Maura lied when she emailed her professors that that was a death in the family. Her lie is morally wrong and I know of no one who gives Maura a "pass". However, I also do not know of anyone who has not lied in order to get out of work or school. Maura's lie makes perfect sense because she was on scholarship, had to maintain her grade point average, and had to make up her nursing clinicals as well as be allowed to turn in assignements for full credit ***upon her return***. The only way to do that was to say she was either sick or there was a death in the family. I personally read on the UMass 2004 Website that professors were urged to be cautious about asking for "proof" of a family member's death - as soon as I read that, it made perfect sense that Maura chose to email her professors with that lie in order to be able to return to school, picking up where she left off and maintinging her gpa as well as her scholarship.......moral - absolutely not! out of the ordinary - sady, it is certainly not!

I know that Maura's family would never say they know she was not drinking and driving. However, everyone that knows her says that drinking and driving was out of character. But, please stick to the facts! The police report which you may read at www.mauramurraymissing.com (http://www.mauramurraymissing.com) states there was a coke bottle with a red liquid that smelled of alcohol - not BOTTLES. While circumstantionally, one must say there is the possibility of Maura's drinking and driving, I assure you, having been to the location where Maura's car was found that she would NEVER have made it from Wells River VT (where she would have gotten off of the interstate) to the location on 112 where her car was located. That particular stretch of road is difficult to manuever for a totally sober person - it must be near impossible to drive that far in the dark while inebriated and ***unfamiliar*** with the road.




These reasons could have been the motiviation to "get away" for some thought and mediation and decision making.


Yes, the family and I agree with you that her plan was to "get away" for some thought and mediation and decision making.


There was a book in her vehicle regarding hiking in the mountains. Perhaps she hiked up the mountain and jumped at some point.. or maybe she fell. I have always believed in the suicide theory, or perhaps a hiking accident that caused her death.

Along with Maura's college textbooks, also found was the book "Without Peril" which is about **surviving** hiking trips in the White Mountains. Maura had been camping/hiking in the White Mountains since she was a child - she actually was taken on her first camping trip at 6 weeks. The book was considered her favorite easy reading book and according to her various hosts, she brought it with her on visits........therefore, it seems that the book has no other significance than she enjoyed reading and re-reading it.




I have never ever believed that she met with foul play.. and there isn't any evidence to say that she was abducted or anything. I am originally from NH, not far from where she was last seen.. and this area is so rural that I will never, for as long as I live, believe that she was abducted in this area.

Believe what you may - but do try to consider only the facts - indeed there are few of them, but they should not be thrown to the wind. Mr. Cecil Smith, the deputy from Haverhill said that there were about 6 vehicles that he met on the way to the scene of the accident - that means there were at least 6 individuals who could have harmed Maura. And while, I have NO reason to suspect Mr Smith, he, and the school bus driver were in the area of her missing as well as the construction worker who reported 3 months after her missing that he saw a "youngster" that fit her description. I stress here that I am not accussing **anyone**! I am saying there were people in the very rural area that could have abducted Maura, that Maura could have willingly gone with who later harmed her or who perhaps accidentally harmed her (hitting her by mistake along the road - she was after all dressed in a black coat and jeans - very difficult to see in the dark)


All that is known points to her being depressed.. and overwhelmed, ...

The facts known by her family do not support your statement that "all that is known points to her being depressed.



and I can't fight this feeling that her father was an overbearing man.. that she was forced into her major, and rather than face her father as a failure, she ended her own life.

You fight a feeling, yet you don't know Maura and you don't know her father? Let me end your mental battle. I know both. Fred did not force her into her nursing major. Maura long defended ***her decision*** to change from a chemical engineering major to nursing. Many that knew her felt she was too intelligent to be "just a nurse". this was a discussion long ago on Websleuths. Maura wanted to help people. And her goal was not to end her education with a BA in Nursing, but to further her education in the medical field. Maura was not a failure. Therefore she did not have to choose to end her life in order to avoid facing her father as a failure.



I believe that her father chooses to believe the foul play theory, because the alternative is just too aweful to bare...

what alternative is just too awful to bear? - Is it worse to have your child take their life than to have them lose their life at the hand of another......I disagree with you. If I were Maura's parent, and my choices were suicide or foul play, I would choose suicide. I would rather she took her life than to have perhaps been raped, tortured and killed in a brutal fashion - oh how differently our minds work!


act! SHE chose to leave school, Fact! SHE is the one who lied to school faculty, and Fact! SHE is the one who willingly left school grounds with no explanation. SHE is ultimately the one who was responsible for her own fate.

Maura is only responsible for her own fate IF she ran away or took her life. You do not know if either of these are fact and you are spinning your opinions/beliefs into fact.



Remember.. the fact that she did not leave a suicide note does not matter. She did leave a note (the family will not discuss exactly what was in the note),

There was NO suicide note - the only "note" was an email to her professors stating whe would be gone "about a week due to a death in the family." Therefore the family cannot discuss what never was.


not everybody who commits suicide leaves a suicide note. And we can't believe everything we see in Hollywood movies regarding young pretty damsels in distress being kidnapped off a rural road, 99.9% of the time- this does not happen!!

I am certain that 99.99% of damsels in distress on our highways, back roads, and rural roads are not kidnapped, BUT too many of our young men and women do vanish seemingly into thin air. Statistics prove that the vast majority of them are not run-a-ways. They are the victims of foul play.


Also, If her family will not publish exactly what was said in Maura's final letter that was left in her dorm room.. I wonder what it is that THEY are hiding.

Maura's family works very hard at keeping Maura's story public. If they were wanting to hide something, wouldn't they just let it fall into oblivion?



And, why do you think AMW did not wish to broadcast a story about Maura Murray?? It is because all evidence suggests that she ran away.. and was NOT a victim of Foul Play.

You are absolutely incorrect. The reason AMW *would not* (not wish not) broadcast Maura's story was because Haverhill Police would not release the accident/police report. Go to the AMW website and you can easily confirm that a police report is necessary for them to air a story........now I wonder why the police would not release the report in Feb 04 - it was finally released when Fred Murray went to court about a year ago........Was the police hiding something?

Miss Ella, I see that you have been banned. Not sure of the reason, but I do hope that although you can no longer post on Websleuths that you can read here. Whatever motivates you to have such strong beliefs that Maura is responsible for her "own fate" which you make very clear is that she took her life, it is my hope that someone/something softens your heart and that you will begin to empathize with the broken hearted people affected by Maura's missing. I full well understand that you and many others suffered heartache when a member of your family committed suicide. Having also known a suicide victim and the survivors, I know it take a cruel hard-hearted person, even though in the case of suicide it is true, to say that one who takes their own life is responsible for their own fate --- how callous, how cruel, how unsympathetic to heartache. Even more so in Maura's case. There are no facts to support Maura committing suicide.

Valid opinions need supporting facts.

Peabody
02-28-2009, 05:46 AM
Here we are, more than 5 years after Maura's missing. The archives show that at first I spent a lot of time ***trying*** to keep opinions, speculations and rumors separated from facts.

Honestly, it just became too time consuming for me. I would love to be able to monitor the sites that keep Maura's name in the public eye and keep the facts straight. But it seems that there are those who are interested only in speculation not fact.

I strongly suggest that if you want to focus on Maura's case that you remember there are very few known facts and that her family is working to learn more. They are not trying to hide anything. Fred Murray has done just the opposite by suing the state of NH under the Freedom of Information Act.......any and all information that he has received is available to anyone! And he wanted more, which would have given you more information!

It is with regret that I am unable to address *every* misleading post. I guess the timing of Miss Ella just got to me. :furious:

Thanks to all of you who care about Maura and her family.

I know that many of you continue to pray for answers and for comfort. God bless you! :angel:

Julessleuther
02-28-2009, 03:45 PM
IMO Miss Ella, if Maura had taken her life, her body would/should have been found by now. Your statements are very very troubling to me. You just joined in Feb, which means that other than just reading what you have read here, you really don't have alot of knowledge of this case. You say that you have followed this from the beginning? Are you a local? Do you have some personal stake in the outcome of this? Why would you ever discourage a family from searching for answers??? :( This entire board is about finding answers for people, so what are you even here if you do not want to help find answers for people? Your statements are just so bizarre to me, I really cannot believe the comments you are making...

Are you Maura and are trying to lead people off the trail?

Are you somehow involved in her disappearance? JMO, because I cannot believe that anyone would come to this board and post comments like you have!?!?!!?

Peabody has graciously kept this thread going, and has tried to update us with whatever information is available to this case. Peabody, do not let this person get to you, you have been an invaluable link to the answers for Maura and her family.

Julessleuther
02-28-2009, 04:01 PM
If you are truly from this area, then you would be well aware of the fact that there have been several missing persons from NH and VT over the past 30 yrs and a suspected serial killer (s), so the idea of foul play is very, very relevent! The bus driver was not completely forthcoming, I believe her scent was picked up leading to the house too, correct?
Does anybody else think that Maura Murray committed suicide?? I've thought this- almost from the beginning... this nagging feeling that she chose to end her life. It is believed that she was overwhelmed and over stressed at school.. she lied to people at school, saying that their was a family emergency.. death in the family, something like that. Seems to me like she couldn't deal and ran away to try to figure out what her next step would be.. Would explain the suspected drinking and driving she was doing.. when she was last seen, alive and near her vehicle. (It has been said that there were liquor bottles found near the crash site where her car was found). There was a book in her vehicle regarding hiking in the mountains. Perhaps she hiked up the mountain and jumped at some point.. or maybe she fell. I have always believed in the suicide theory, or perhaps a hiking accident that caused her death. I have never ever believed that she met with foul play.. and there isn't any evidence to say that she was abducted or anything. I am originally from NH, not far from where she was last seen.. and this area is so rural that I will never, for as long as I live, believe that she was abducted in this area. All that is known points to her being depressed.. and overwhelmed, and I can't fight this feeling that her father was an overbearing man.. that she was forced into her major, and rather than face her father as a failure, she ended her own life. I believe that her father chooses to believe the foul play theory, because the alternative is just too aweful to bare... Fact! SHE chose to leave school, Fact! SHE is the one who lied to school faculty, and Fact! SHE is the one who willingly left school grounds with no explanation. SHE is ultimately the one who was responsible for her own fate. Remember.. the fact that she did not leave a suicide note does not matter. She did leave a note (the family will not discuss exactly what was in the note), not everybody who commits suicide leaves a suicide note. And we can't believe everything we see in Hollywood movies regarding young pretty damsels in distress being kidnapped off a rural road, 99.9% of the time- this does not happen!!

Also, If her family will not publish exactly what was said in Maura's final letter that was left in her dorm room.. I wonder what it is that THEY are hiding. And, why do you think AMW did not wish to broadcast a story about Maura Murray?? It is because all evidence suggests that she ran away.. and was NOT a victim of Foul Play.

WholeLottaRosie
03-07-2009, 02:39 AM
I am still missing something, it seems. There really is no proof that what Miss Ella said is wrong. It really seems unless one says the family line, one can't post an opinion. There does seem just as much for her leaving voluntarily as foul play. And I have been on it since the beginning. I have read all of this board, all of the MM site board (the old one) most of the Topix, articles, etc. I have two binders of material on this case. For several reasons, it is on of the ones I am most interested in. It is a shame that this seems to be of the few cases that can never be truly discussed.

pittsburghgirl
03-07-2009, 03:36 PM
This post is in response to Medusa’s comment that there is “really…no proof that what Miss Ella said is wrong.” Without finding Maura alive or finding her body if she is dead, we have no “proof” of anything. But let me explain what is so distressing about the original post. I don’t know how to quote in snips, so I will put original points in quotation marks.

“I've thought this- almost from the beginning... this nagging feeling…”
This statement announces from the beginning that the post is just the “thought” and the “nagging feeling” of the poster. If she starts off from her “nagging feeling” that Maura is a suicide, she will filter all the evidence through her filter.

“It is believed that she was overwhelmed and over stressed at school.”
I teach college students; they are always stressed and overwhelmed. They take a few days off, they cut class, they visit friends, they get mysterious flus and have multiple dead grandmothers. That is just what they do. And—“it is believed by” WHOM? The passive construction of the sentence leaves out the AGENT—who believes that she was overwhelmed and over stressed? I don’t necessarily disagree with the poster’s point, but the thinking here does not add up to an argument—what evidence is there that the people who would know (fiancé, friends, family, classmates) thought she was overwhelmed to the point of suicide, rather than just needing a break?

"Seems to me like she couldn't deal and ran away."
The fact that she bothered to invent a family emergency and contact her professors actually points to an intention to return to school. Kids who drop out just..drop out…go away…. And "seems to me" is not a convincing argument from evidence.

"Perhaps she hiked up the mountain and jumped at some point."
In the dark and snow. The poster has clearly never “hiked up” a mountain. What, exactly, is Maura supposed to jump off? How was she supposed to get there? Did she have ropes? Climbing shoes? Night vision goggles? How does this plan explain her calls to find places to stay?

"I have never ever believed that she met with foul play.. and there isn't any evidence to say that she was abducted."
Well, back to my first point. If you eliminate foul play and abduction from the beginning you won’t see the evidence. Why did she pack stuff in the car and leave it? Why hasn’t she been heard from? Why couldn’t multiple searches find a body (if she had, for example, injured her head and collapsed in the woods?) Why does LE consider this a criminal investigation?

"All that is known points to her being depressed."
“All that is known.” That statement explains itself. Was she on anti-depressants? Gaining weight? Cutting class? Avoiding social contacts? Unless the poster is a psychologist, I don’t think she is in position to diagnose Maura Murray or anyone else.

"I believe that her father chooses to believe the foul play theory."
As do others, including law enforcement.

"Fact! SHE chose to leave school, Fact! SHE is the one who lied to school faculty, and Fact! SHE is the one who willingly left school grounds with no explanation."
FACTS: Students “[leave] school grounds without explanation” all the time. They are adults with free will. They also lie to their teachers about having the flu, dead grandmothers, flat tires, blown-up computer printers, etc. They start spring break early and come back late. They stay up all night and cut class. They quit, transfer, flunk classes and do too much partying.

“…the fact that she did not leave a suicide note does not matter."
Now here is a fact that the poster simply dismisses. And the fact is that it may not have been the family’s decision to withhold the note, if in fact there was one. (This is a point in some contention among people who follow the case.)

Medusa, there are limited answers to the question of what happened to Maura. 1) She was murdered immediately and her body was left in the vicinity of the car. 2) She is dead from accident, exposure, or a head trauma from the accident. 3) She was kidnapped and is still alive. 4) She was abducted, moved to a different location and murdered. 5) She ran away. 6) She committed suicide in such a way that her body was never found.

The biggest problem I have with the "suicide" post is the sloppiness of the thinking. Show me an argument for suicide. How would Maura commit suicide and hide her body? Why would she stumble around in the dark to commit suicide when she could get a room, wait till morning, and carry out her plan the next day? How often is suicide a real surprise to family and friends, especially if the person is not a teenager?

I don't know Maura's family, although I surely can imagine the pain and horror of what they've gone through. Think of how many people, including law enforcement, were sure that Chandra Levy was killed because of her affair with Gary Condit. And it turns out she was just jogging in the wrong spot at the wrong time.

gaia227
03-09-2009, 02:05 PM
http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2004/03/02/where_could_maura_be/
"The more details are revealed, the more baffling the case becomes, police acknowledge. Yesterday, Thrasher said that Maura had fastidiously packed all her belongings into boxes before she left school, even removing the art from her dorm room walls. Meanwhile, one UMass friend has seemingly withheld information from police, saying she didn't want to get Maura "in trouble."

I don't remember reading this before (that's not saying much) but thought I would put it out here. I wonder if that friend has since spoken with cops and told them what she knew.

gaia227
03-09-2009, 02:09 PM
Could someone direct me to the report of Maura being sighted in the convenience store, mouthing "help me"? Where was this convenience store and how far from where she went missing? I would really like to read that report. I live within easy driving distance of where Maura went missing and would like to maybe do some sleuthing of my own.

TIA


I was going to direct you to another website which had a really long, in-depth article about Maura but the link is dead.

This Wiki entry mentions the sighting you are referring too:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maura_Murray#Sightings

That sighting was in NH.

pittsburghgirl
03-10-2009, 02:52 AM
http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2004/03/02/where_could_maura_be/
"The more details are revealed, the more baffling the case becomes, police acknowledge. Yesterday, Thrasher said that Maura had fastidiously packed all her belongings into boxes before she left school, even removing the art from her dorm room walls. Meanwhile, one UMass friend has seemingly withheld information from police, saying she didn't want to get Maura "in trouble."

I don't remember reading this before (that's not saying much) but thought I would put it out here. I wonder if that friend has since spoken with cops and told them what she knew.


From what I've read, no one is certain whether Maura was packing up her stuff or had just never unpacked when she returned to school. That is one element of the case that is maddening.

In regard to the friend, here is a quote that one of Maura's relatives posted on another site. I have seen other family members/friends post the same information elsewhere.


As to the comment that appeared in the paper about what her friend allegedly said, several of us have spoken to this friend and believe she was misquoted. She was very upset about what appeared in the paper.
http://www.johndouglasmindhunter.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5009&start=0

It seems likely that the friend was either misquoted or misunderstood-- thinking about relatively trivial issues like cutting class or just wanting to avoid saying anything in public that might upset Maura when she came back--or just wanting to avoid saying anything to a reporter.

dreamweaver
03-12-2009, 01:35 PM
A Theory:
Maura had been in 3 car accidents. Maura was upset by a phone call.
Maura spoke to a sister. Maura emailed her boy friend.
Maura packs up her room. She emailed her professors saying there is a death
in the family and she will be gone a week.
She searches online for resorts and condos.
She buys liquor and stops at atm.
She drives.
She has another car accident.
OR
She is hit by another car.
She does not want the police called.
The police are called and arrive within
minutes.
Maura M is nowhere to be found.
With all respect, I post the following ideas:
So,
I agree with some posters that she is under some kind of emotional stress.
Was she raped at college as some have suggested? Did she have a traumatic brain injury from the car accidents?
She obviously wanted to get away and be alone, think about things, drink some wine.

I try to keep things simple when I look at what may have happened.
If I were a young college student, close to a degree in nursing, scheduled to move closer to my boyfriend who is in the military in OK. What would make me
cry over a phone call, have car accidents, pack up my room, tell people there was a death in the family and leave school?
1. boy friend was cheating
2. marriage would not happen
3. would not graduate on time.
4. cheated on a test.
5. discovered she did not want to be a nurse.
6. felt she did not love the boy friend any longer.
7. pregnant.
8. disappointed parents and self.
9. numerous small things, boy friend seems coolish,
grades lower, might be pregnant, might have slept with someone
else, wrecked dad's car, no one could possible understand her life,
someone threatened to kill themselves because of her.

So, she leaves school.
Another accident.
Do not call police.
Four minutes tops and she disappears.
Check everything about the next two;
1. the first police officer.
He offers her a ride and then..
2. one of the neighbors.
They agree to let her hide in the house and then..
Contact Necrosearch.org.
But, LE has to request the search.

emma l
03-13-2009, 06:39 AM
When I was at college one of my best friends disappeared for 2 days once. We shared a flat with her at the time and knew enough not to call the police, because we knew her very well. (It sounds odd now and as a fully formed adult I can't say I would do the same thing).

Anyway, it was the anniversary of he mothers death and she was really struggling with the pressures of our course at drama school (she cried during one class that I remember). No matter what we did she didn’t seem to do any better.

We were worried but had a sense she needed to be on her own. Turns out she'd been wandering around nearby park and drinking cheap cider for 2 days! She reappeared, a bit hungover but none the worse.

I also had a similar thing where I took off for a day when I was at college.

What I mean to say Dreamweaver is that I kind of sense your theory is half right. I have always thought that Maura took off. She panicked after her car crash and either hitchhiked or walked out of there, meaning to get away fro a few days, As theres no evidence that anything happened to her, she may feel like shes left it too long to come back.

The first thing my friend said when she reappeared after her 2 day hiatus? "I thought you would all be really p*ssed off with me".

As a young adult, it does often feel like you have the weight of the world on your shoulders.

Simply Caustic
03-14-2009, 07:59 PM
I've been over to the Topix forum and I will attempt to summarize key pieces of information here. Please correct me and add what I miss. I still haven't read the whole thing.

Here it is: http://www.topix.com/forum/city/franconia-nh/T66DK0TLH7PP4VJ36

Background: There are a number of folks posting there that were former members of the Maura Murray Missing Forum at the (official I suppose) website. One of the private investigators from a team has posted there and has made some comments about what the team has concluded on and the makeup of the team. I can't be sure but even some of the early posters may have been members of her family - and it appeared a private investigator the family hired would read and post.

Basic timeline

At the start, a poster named "OH MY" alluded that he knew something. His posts, as judged by others, but not myself, appeared to them to be more then 1 person.
OH MY finally blurted out a name and then appeals were made for him to contact them.
I don't know what came of it.

There are references to a "BB" making some assertions, but I don't know what they were or how they were resolved.

The board has a belligerent feel at times - somewhat divided - but I am not sure why.

I entered very late. The PI explained what his group does on Page 193. I posted some new thoughts on page 192 and reposted my earlier theory from here on page 194 and asked him if Mr. Atwood knew for certain that it was Maura at the scene of the accident by comparing his memory to a photo.

I thought it was a yes or no question that would either place Maura as a run away or a victim of Mr. Atwood.

But the answer was "Maybe" with added pieces of information. You can read what the PI said on Page 194.

In summary he said that:

1. The broken window was created inside the car
2. The hood damage indeed is not consistent with the crash
3. They ruled out accidental death and suicide.
4. All of the after-disappearance sightings have been investigated and it was a not her

I then asked when he believed that Maura's actions were no longer voluntary

He said he believes after the hood was damaged.

I don't know what evidence he based his conclusions on - I believe he is a PI and he says he speaks for the team, but the team only releases a limited amount of information - no one contradicted him.

The conclusion was that the accident was staged and another woman was probably in the car instead of Maura and talked to Mr. Atwood.

I will continue later - but you can see all of this at Topix if you like.

B F

if i may say so, thanks for the update! succinct and informative TY

pittsburghgirl
03-14-2009, 11:17 PM
There is also the new forum, where more detailed description of the PI investigation (including one of the detective's posts from Topix), pictures of the car, and other basic case information can be found.

http://findmauramurray.21.forumer.com/index.php

docwho3
03-16-2009, 05:32 AM
Just stopping in to see if anything new has turned up.
It doesn't seem as if much of anything new and concrete has surfaced but I have only had time to read a few pages back so far.

Dont know how many remember me but "hi" to those who do :)

believe09
03-16-2009, 09:22 AM
Just stopping in to see if anything new has turned up.
It doesn't seem as if much of anything new and concrete has surfaced but I have only had time to read a few pages back so far.

Dont know how many remember me but "hi" to those who do :)

Doc-welcome back!!! We have missed you!!!

MaedchenX
04-16-2009, 01:01 AM
I am from Mass and was checking out local message boards when I saw an anonymous post that stated:

"Maura Murray was seen in Montreal. She is alive and well."

found here: http://www.masslive.com/forums/amherst/

post number 3520 by user Sage2009

I take it completely for what it is worth, an anonymous unsubstantiated claim. Immediately I did an internet search thinking that there had been an official break in the case. Unfortunately that was not so. I found it unsettling and thought to share it here.

dreamweaver
04-16-2009, 01:34 PM
I am from Mass and was checking out local message boards when I saw an anonymous post that stated:

"Maura Murray was seen in Montreal. She is alive and well."

found here: http://www.masslive.com/forums/amherst/

post number 3520 by user Sage2009

I take it completely for what it is worth, an anonymous unsubstantiated claim. Immediately I did an internet search thinking that there had been an official break in the case. Unfortunately that was not so. I found it unsettling and thought to share it here.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Certainly seems like a very mean hoax.

MaedchenX
04-16-2009, 01:53 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------
Certainly seems like a very mean hoax.

I agree. Maybe I am reading far too much into it, but I find it so bizzare that anyone would make such a claim without some ulterior motive. Then again I am sure those who are more experienced with missing persons cases have seen the like of this before.

murraydwyer
04-16-2009, 04:06 PM
I agree. Maybe I am reading far too much into it, but I find it so bizzare that anyone would make such a claim without some ulterior motive. Then again I am sure those who are more experienced with missing persons cases have seen the like of this before.

This has been posted in other places on the internet. Please know that the proper authorities have been notified of these posts and that the family has no knowledge of this alleged sighting beyond what was posted.

If there are any official updates of the status of Maura's disappearance it will be posted on the website www.MauraMurrayMissing.com as soon as possible.

hmg
04-19-2009, 07:00 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------
Certainly seems like a very mean hoax.

As someone who lives in the area I can tell you that those MassLive message boards are very unreliable sources of information.

People have done worse things... does anyone remember that case where someone randomly called the parents of a missing girl and claimed they were her? The girl was killed by a serial killer months earlier. The person who made the call gained absolutely nothing from gaining the call, it was just a "joke" to them.

Tonia
05-01-2009, 10:57 AM
NH may get cold case unit

Supporters of establishing a cold case unit to investigate unsolved homicides and missing person cases hope they took one step closer yesterday to getting a proposal past the Senate.
The Senate Judiciary Committee heard testimony from the bill's prime sponsor and several others who say such a unit could bring justice to families who have grieved for years about the unsolved murder of a loved one.
John Healy, a former state trooper, said he and several other private investigators have been working to solve the 2004 disappearance of Maura Murray, a case now believed to be a homicide.
After two searches of a wooded area in Haverhill, N.H., where Murray's car went off the road, searchers found two pieces of possible evidence, he said. That evidence, which Healy wouldn't describe, is now in the hands of the state attorney general's office.
"This case needs attention, it needs special attention so the evidence doesn't go cold," Healy said.
He said about 10 private investigators have been working on the Murray case pro bono.

More at link.

http://www.eagletribune.com/punewsnh/local_story_121020508.html?keyword=topstory

Peabody
05-04-2009, 08:36 AM
Today, Monday, May 4th, Maura would have celebrated her 27th birthday.

My thoughts and prayers for Maura and all who love her!

kaas
05-04-2009, 09:54 AM
I do wonder what evidence they found that leads them to now believe that Maura was murdered. This case has baffled me and I just wish for some answers for the family.

Peabody
05-04-2009, 01:40 PM
Today, Monday, May 4th, Maura would have celebrated her 27th birthday.

My thoughts and prayers for Maura and all who love her!

Peabody
05-04-2009, 02:05 PM
.....seems New Hampshire will not be getting a Cold Case Unite

http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090501/NEWS02/305019933

Peabody
05-04-2009, 02:08 PM
.....seems New Hampshire will not be getting a Cold Case Unit.

http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090501/NEWS02/305019933

Peabody
05-04-2009, 09:49 PM
Today, Monday, May 4th, 2009, Maura Murray would have celebrated her 27th birthday.

Maura has been missing for more than 5 years. She went missing on Monday, February 9, 2004, near Haverhill, New Hampshire.

My thoughts and prayers for Maura and all who love her!

gaia227
05-08-2009, 11:23 AM
I am still missing something, it seems. There really is no proof that what Miss Ella said is wrong. It really seems unless one says the family line, one can't post an opinion. There does seem just as much for her leaving voluntarily as foul play. And I have been on it since the beginning. I have read all of this board, all of the MM site board (the old one) most of the Topix, articles, etc. I have two binders of material on this case. For several reasons, it is on of the ones I am most interested in. It is a shame that this seems to be of the few cases that can never be truly discussed.


Hi Medusa - I know this was posted like two months ago but I just wanted to say that I don't anyone was attacking Ella for what she believed. It was the fact that she kept stating what she believed, her own opinion, as FACT. She was speculating, as we all do, but she was trying to say that certain things were facts when they aren't facts.

For Example She said:
I believe that her father chooses to believe the foul play theory, because the alternative is just too aweful to bare... Fact!

Well, that isn't a fact. To preface something with 'I believe' and end it with 'FACT!' doesn't make a lot of sense.

It is usually people like Ella who stiffle and stagnant message boards because they believe with no real evidence to back up those beliefs that what they think is the only truth and are unwilling to listen or consider any other alternatives.

Unfortunately there are very little facts for us to do on in Maura's disappearence that is why we need to keep an open mind.

Peabody
05-09-2009, 11:11 AM
May 9, 2009

Maura Murray has been missing 5 years and 3 months today.

Too long and so sad.

Praying for Maura and all who love her.

Peabody
05-09-2009, 11:12 AM
May 9, 2009

Maura Murray has been missing 5 years and 3 months today.

Too long and so sad.

Praying for Maura and all who love her.

Skigirl
06-19-2009, 08:57 PM
I can't believe it's been five years. It seems like yesterday when I first heard about this case. I was so sure it would be resolved -- maybe not with the result her family hoped for -- but I was sure that the circumstances would eventually be known. I've watched this case because I have New Hampshire ties and Maura seems like someone I would have liked to have known. How sad -- my heart goes out to the family.

:+:MrTT:+:
08-07-2009, 10:15 PM
Bump...
there is a wealth of information on this missing person case to allow it to go cold, so I am bumping it.

gaia227
10-02-2009, 03:58 PM
Bumping for Maura. I know there is nothing new to report. The thread over at Topix has been very busy lately with several posts a day. Unfortunately you have to weed through all the name-calling and unnecessary attacks on other posters, etc, etc to gleam much information at all. Beagle posts all the time and tries really hard to give off the impression he/she knows what happened to Maura but of course is all evasive and says that they have been threatened and attacked for what they have said on the board. While compelling to read I take everything said over there with a HUGE boulder of salt.

Someone on the Topix board did mention that an hour before Maura got the phone call at work that distressed her another student was found in the parking lot after a hit and run accident. I don't know if they are related in any way but it is interesting timing.

bobfather99
10-09-2009, 03:23 AM
Bumping this thread along. Followed the case almost from the beginning, hopeful for an outcome soon.

Bob

LetJusticePrevail
10-09-2009, 09:51 AM
This is Jenni Brook's website - one of Maura's friends http://www.jennibrooks.com/live/ (http://www.jennibrooks.com/live/) When you go there, a song automatically plays that she wrote for Maura. You may have heard of this before as it was previously posted on the site but in case not, it's really beautiful and touching...and I'd love to find her for her family. I think of her father and how the anniversary has recently passed and him still at the location with signs hoping someone will finally remember something so he can bring his daughter home.

theforgotten
10-28-2009, 09:02 AM
Bumping for Maura...

slamdunks
10-28-2009, 11:07 PM
At this point no one can deny the possibility of Maura taking her own life...

Comprehensive response regarding the case Peabody--well said.

future criminologist
11-03-2009, 11:29 AM
does anyone know why NH LE is now investigating this case as a homicide? I've followed it for years, and this is the first I've heard of LE actually acknowledging foul play. What is the evidence that made them change their minds, I wonder?

WholeLottaRosie
11-05-2009, 02:16 AM
does anyone know why NH LE is now investigating this case as a homicide? I've followed it for years, and this is the first I've heard of LE actually acknowledging foul play. What is the evidence that made them change their minds, I wonder?

Do you have a link for this? Hadn't heard that.

Peabody
11-15-2009, 04:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peabody http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif
At this point no one can deny the possibility of Maura taking her own life...


Originally Posted by Slamdunks:
Comprehensive response regarding the case Peabody--well said. Slamdunks,

I *feel* that you are putting a spin on my comment "At this point no one can deny the possibility of Maura taking her own life..." If I am mistaken that you are saying that I have said suicide is the most likely scenario, then please accept in advance my apology.

f I am correct in the assessment that you are pointing to my post as support of Maura committing suicide, then let me assure you and everyone that I believe that running away and/or suicide are the least likely possibilities in Maura's missing. Therefore, it is most important to note the "....." in your quote:

I readily admit that at this point, no one can deny any possibility of what happened to Maura: there are no facts to support any theory.

However, those of us who know her best do not believe that she ran away or that she committed suicide. We have our reasons for our beliefs, but we can not prove either of these opinions anymore than we can prove that she was abducted and/or murdered.

Maura is gone! That is an indisputable fact. Another fact is that her father and many others continue efforts to find her. Fred Murray has told me on many an occasion that he will not give up hope that Maura is alive **UNTIL** her remains have been identified. He believes with all of his heart that until her body is found there is hope that she is alive somewhere. Sharon Rausch said it very well for Maura's loved ones during the 20-20 special: "My head tells me that Maura is no longer living, but my heart will not give up hope." So, it is with Fred and many others! He has not done everything perfect since Maura went missing, but he has done everything he knows to find her and has worked to learn information that will help him. Perhaps those of you who only find fault with him might try to walk just a few hours in his shoes. Maybe, just maybe, you who do not know him would STOP with the horrible accusations that you make against this loving father. And maybe, if some of you knew Maura, you would stop with the many horrible accusations made against her!

Peabody
11-15-2009, 04:40 AM
http://www.wickedlocal.com/hanson/news/police_and_fire/x1312019615/Brockton-area-families-of-the-missing-and-slain-turn-to-social-networking-sites-to-solve-cases

BROCKTON - Families and investigators searching for clues in missing persons cases are turning to online social networking sites, hoping to tap potential witnesses throughout the country and world.
“It has become the first line of defense for some families,” said Helena Murray, aunt of Maura Murray, the Hanson college student who went missing in Woodsville, N.H., five years ago.
“It is one way to get the person’s name and picture out there to as many people as you can,” she said.

Peabody
11-15-2009, 04:47 AM
http://www.wickedlocal.com/hanson/ne...to-solve-cases (http://www.wickedlocal.com/hanson/news/police_and_fire/x1312019615/Brockton-area-families-of-the-missing-and-slain-turn-to-social-networking-sites-to-solve-cases)

BROCKTON - Families and investigators searching for clues in missing persons cases are turning to online social networking sites, hoping to tap potential witnesses throughout the country and world.
“It has become the first line of defense for some families,” said Helena Murray, aunt of Maura Murray, the Hanson college student who went missing in Woodsville, N.H., five years ago.
“It is one way to get the person’s name and picture out there to as many people as you can,” she said.
__________________

Bobbisangel
11-15-2009, 04:59 AM
May 9, 2009

Maura Murray has been missing 5 years and 3 months today.

Too long and so sad.

Praying for Maura and all who love her.


I hadn't realized it has been that long. My heart goes out to her dad. I know he has done everything possible to try to find his girl. I still think the answer is back where they found her car. The car was wrecked and she didn't just vanish without a trace from there. Take another look at the cop and the bus driver. There had to have been some clues left with her car or in the vehicle that gave her a ride...did they go over both those vehicles I wonder. Just because a person is a cop in a very rural area doesn't mean he is a good one. A driver of a school bus...same thing. Seems like there was questions about the wrecked car, etsc. Maura was such a beautiful girl. I remember hearing about her disappearance and just feeling so sad for her and her family.

Peabody
12-10-2009, 04:58 PM
Bumping for Maura...........

December 10, 2009, she has been missing 5 years, 10 months, 1 day

Prayers for Maura and all who love her.

Peabody
12-10-2009, 05:05 PM
Bumping for Maura...........

December 10, 2009, she has been missing 5 years, 10 months, 1 day

Prayers for Maura and all who love her.

Peabody
12-12-2009, 08:27 PM
Dec 11, 2009 11:13 pm US/Eastern

http://wbztv.com/local/cold.case.maura.2.1365538.html


MISSING UMASS STUDENT LISTED ON NH COLD CASE SITE

A Cold Case Unit, newly created by the New Hampshire Department of Justice, now lists the name of a college student from the South Shore on on its

<SNIP>

"Based on what I know, I believe Maura was killed," says Helena Murray of Weymouth, who is married to a cousin of Maura. Helena has been trying for nearly six years to find out what happened to the Hanson woman whose car was involved in minor accident on Route 112 in Haverhill, New Hampshire. When police arrived on scene, Maura was gone.

"Somebody knows something. Whether Maura's alive and got a ride or whether Maura is dead, somebody knows something," says Helena who wrote Governor John Lynch in 2005 asking Maura's name to be listed along with other cases that had gone cold.

"The state of New Hampshire needed to list these cases," she says. Finally, it has created a Cold Case Unit (http://doj.nh.gov/coldcaseunit/index.htm) and has included Maura's name on its Web site. "I was very pleased to see her name on the list," says Helena who maintains a web site called Maura is Missing (http://www.mauramurraymissing.com/). She says some of Maura's friends have been cold-called by a man and woman who've visited the site and are interested in the case which makes her uncomfortable.

Peabody
12-12-2009, 08:36 PM
Dec 11, 2009 11:13 pm US/Eastern

http://wbztv.com/local/cold.case.maura.2.1365538.html


MISSING UMASS STUDENT LISTED ON NH COLD CASE SITE

A Cold Case Unit, newly created by the New Hampshire Department of Justice, now lists the name of a college student from the South Shore on on its

<SNIP>

"Based on what I know, I believe Maura was killed," says Helena Murray of Weymouth, who is married to a cousin of Maura. Helena has been trying for nearly six years to find out what happened to the Hanson woman whose car was involved in minor accident on Route 112 in Haverhill, New Hampshire. When police arrived on scene, Maura was gone.

"Somebody knows something. Whether Maura's alive and got a ride or whether Maura is dead, somebody knows something," says Helena who wrote Governor John Lynch in 2005 asking Maura's name to be listed along with other cases that had gone cold.

"The state of New Hampshire needed to list these cases," she says. Finally, it has created a Cold Case Unit (http://doj.nh.gov/coldcaseunit/index.htm) and has included Maura's name on its Web site. "I was very pleased to see her name on the list," says Helena who maintains a web site called Maura is Missing (http://www.mauramurraymissing.com/). She says some of Maura's friends have been cold-called by a man and woman who've visited the site and are interested in the case which makes her uncomfortable.

future criminologist
12-12-2009, 09:27 PM
regarding the new NH cold case squad - this is great news for Maura's family. Anyone know how many detectives are assigned to this squad? Anyone know which detective is assigned to Maura's case?

reb
12-12-2009, 10:31 PM
To anyone working on Maura's case- just wanted to throw something out there. Could it be that when she left town, she was following someone she had been involved with (romantically, or something illegal- hence the upsetting mysterious phone call at work... since she couldn't talk about it to anyone) and was planning to go to a secret location with them..? And when her car went off the road and hit the tree, she waited for the person ahead of her to realize she wasn't behind them. During that time, another driver stopped to check on her, but she said she didn't want help, because she knew the person she was following in her car would come back and pick her up. Maybe this is why she said she didn't want the man to call police (either because she didn't want her boyfriend to find out, &/or because of involvement in illegal activity?). So the man left, and by the time the police did get there, she had gotten out of the car, walked on ahead, and the car in front had by then turned around, picked her up, and they drove on to the location in another city/state.. but he was dangerous and that was the end of her. Or maybe he owed her money, threatened her on the phone a few days before (which made her cry at work), then left town with him to try and resolve it or pay off the debt. I sense a double-life situation here that was kept from her family, boyfriend, and friends. Some kind of secret addiction/drug debt, or at least a secret relationship with a stranger. Maybe even a married man? ..someone who taught at the college? But I think the key lies in what caused that upsetting phone call. It must have been something really bad- again, possibly a threat. Thoughts?

PrayersForMaura
12-22-2009, 07:11 PM
"Disappeared" --- all new Series on the ID channel (Investigation discovery) --- features a special on Maura Murray in January 2010.

I will keep everyone posted.

PrayersForMaura
12-22-2009, 07:15 PM
"Disappeared" --- all new Series on the ID channel (Investigation discovery) --- features a special on Maura Murray in January 2010.

I will keep everyone posted.

Peabody
01-04-2010, 11:40 PM
http://www.nashobapublishing.com/townsend_news/ci_14069502
Bad reputation ends supposed search....


<snip>
Missing Persons' Web site, www.mpsiu.com (http://www.mpsiu.com/), boasts that it has "cold case specialists" -- essentially subcontractors -- but Reinhart admits his background is in "sales and business development." He is not a licensed private investigator. His specialty is determining human behavior.
Reinhart, who lives in Newton, said Missing Persons is run from a "virtual office" in Washington, D.C.
Reinhart said Missing Persons was formed three months ago, and after preliminary investigations chose to focus on Quimby and missing University of Massachusetts Amherst student Maura Murray. The company Web site now lists seven "investigations," including the 1982 missing-person case of 17-year-old Judith Ann Chartier, of Chelmsford.

<snip>


FYI: When I saw this story online, my first action was to contact the Murray Family. I learned from them that they have NEVER been contacted by Reinhart, they have never contacted him, nor do they know him. I also learned that in their efforts to learn more about the story, the link to his business http://www.mpsiu.com (http://www.mpsiu.com/) has been taken down.



Just my opinion, but it seems there is ANOTHER scammer out there attempting to take advantage of Missing Person's Families. What a shame!

If this person is not a scammer, he needs to do the right thing by these families!!

Peabody
01-04-2010, 11:44 PM
http://www.nashobapublishing.com/townsend_news/ci_14069502
Bad reputation ends supposed search....


<snip>
Missing Persons' Web site, www.mpsiu.com (http://www.mpsiu.com/), boasts that it has "cold case specialists" -- essentially subcontractors -- but Reinhart admits his background is in "sales and business development." He is not a licensed private investigator. His specialty is determining human behavior.
Reinhart, who lives in Newton, said Missing Persons is run from a "virtual office" in Washington, D.C.
Reinhart said Missing Persons was formed three months ago, and after preliminary investigations chose to focus on Quimby and missing University of Massachusetts Amherst student Maura Murray. The company Web site now lists seven "investigations," including the 1982 missing-person case of 17-year-old Judith Ann Chartier, of Chelmsford.

<snip>


FYI: When I saw this story online, my first action was to contact the Murray Family. I learned from them that they have NEVER been contacted by Reinhart, they have never contacted him, nor do they know him. I also learned that in their efforts to learn more about the story, the link to his business http://www.mpsiu.com (http://www.mpsiu.com/) has been taken down.



Just my opinion, but it seems there is ANOTHER scammer out there attempting to take advantage of Missing Person's Families. What a shame!

If this person is not a scammer, he needs to do the right thing by these families!!

Peabody
01-04-2010, 11:49 PM
"Disappeared" --- all new Series on the ID channel (Investigation discovery) --- features a special on Maura Murray in January 2010.

I will keep everyone posted.

The Family was Notified:

(http://investigation.discovery.com/videos/disappeared-sneak-peeks-maura-murry.html) Disappeared Sneak Peeks: Maura Murry


email a friend (javascript:%20void(null);)
share on social networks (javascript:%20void(null);)

Maura Murray goes missing after her car swerves off a dark and windy road over 140 miles away from her dorm. Years later, her family refuses to give up their seach. Don't miss this episode premiere on February 8 at 10 PM e/p!

http://investigation.discovery.com/videos/disappeared-sneak-peeks-maura-murry.html

(http://investigation.discovery.com/videos/disappeared-sneak-peeks-maura-murry.html)

Peabody
01-04-2010, 11:53 PM
"Disappeared" --- all new Series on the ID channel (Investigation discovery) --- features a special on Maura Murray in January 2010.

I will keep everyone posted.

The Family was Notified:

Disappeared Sneak Peeks: Maura Murry


email a friend (javascript:%20void(null);)
share on social networks (javascript:%20void(null);)

Maura Murray goes missing after her car swerves off a dark and windy road over 140 miles away from her dorm. Years later, her family refuses to give up their seach. Don't miss this episode premiere on February 8 at 10 PM e/p!

http://investigation.discovery.com/videos/disappeared-sneak-peeks-maura-murry.html

PrayersForMaura
02-02-2010, 12:01 AM
Just a head's up for those who don't know and a reminder for those who do..... The Investigation Discovery Channel is featuring Maura Murray next Monday night, 2/8/2010 on their new series called Disappeared.
I believe this is the last of the series. It airs at 9pm CST.

Maura's dad really moved me in the previews for this show.
Please tune in if you can to show your support for Maura.

Thanks

PrayersForMaura
02-02-2010, 12:03 AM
Just a head's up for those who don't know and a reminder for those who do..... The Investigation Discovery Channel is featuring Maura Murray next Monday night, 2/8/2010 on their new series called Disappeared.
I believe this is the last of the series. It airs at 9pm CST.

Maura's dad really moved me in the previews for this show.
Please tune in if you can to show your support for Maura.

Thanks

iluvmua
02-04-2010, 11:07 PM
Just a head's up for those who don't know and a reminder for those who do..... The Investigation Discovery Channel is featuring Maura Murray next Monday night, 2/8/2010 on their new series called Disappeared.
I believe this is the last of the series. It airs at 9pm CST.

Maura's dad really moved me in the previews for this show.
Please tune in if you can to show your support for Maura.

Thanks

Do you think anybody could put the episode on Youtube? I don't have Dish Network anymore so I can't watch it. Thanks!

Peabody
02-08-2010, 02:31 PM
"Tests are being performed on possible new evidence in the mysterious disappearance six years ago of University of Massachusetts nursing student Maura Murray in Haverhill, according to Lt. James White, head of the New Hampshire State Police Major Crime Unit. Tuesday will mark the sixth anniversary of the day Murray vanished in the North Country after crashing her car on remote and winding Route 112 during a snowstorm shortly before 7:30 p.m. on Feb. 9, 2004.

Some time in the last two weeks, police received new information in the case, White said, though he declined to say exactly what it is.

This case is very much active." he said.

As a result of the new leads, White said, police collected items that are now in the process of being tested.

Union Leader...Nancy West 2/7/1
Article not online

Peabody
02-08-2010, 02:34 PM
"Tests are being performed on possible new evidence in the mysterious disappearance six years ago of University of Massachusetts nursing student Maura Murray in Haverhill, according to Lt. James White, head of the New Hampshire State Police Major Crime Unit. Tuesday will mark the sixth anniversary of the day Murray vanished in the North Country after crashing her car on remote and winding Route 112 during a snowstorm shortly before 7:30 p.m. on Feb. 9, 2004.

Some time in the last two weeks, police received new information in the case, White said, though he declined to say exactly what it is.

This case is very much active." he said.

As a result of the new leads, White said, police collected items that are now in the process of being tested.

Union Leader...Nancy West 2/7/1
Article not online

iluvmua
02-08-2010, 03:26 PM
"Tests are being performed on possible new evidence in the mysterious disappearance six years ago of University of Massachusetts nursing student Maura Murray in Haverhill, according to Lt. James White, head of the New Hampshire State Police Major Crime Unit. Tuesday will mark the sixth anniversary of the day Murray vanished in the North Country after crashing her car on remote and winding Route 112 during a snowstorm shortly before 7:30 p.m. on Feb. 9, 2004.

Some time in the last two weeks, police received new information in the case, White said, though he declined to say exactly what it is.

This case is very much active." he said.

As a result of the new leads, White said, police collected items that are now in the process of being tested.

Union Leader...Nancy West 2/7/1
Article not online

I hope this is what the police have been waiting for to crack this case wide open.

Is there any possibility that Maura could still be alive?

PrayersForMaura
02-08-2010, 10:58 PM
REMINDER: 4 minutes until showtime:

Just a head's up for those who don't know and a reminder for those who do..... The Investigation Discovery Channel is featuring Maura Murray TONIGHT, 2/8/2010 on their new series called Disappeared.
It airs at 9pm CST.

Maura's dad really moved me in the previews for this show.
Please tune in if you can to show your support for Maura.

PrayersForMaura
02-08-2010, 10:59 PM
REMINDER: 4 minutes until showtime:

Just a head's up for those who don't know and a reminder for those who do..... The Investigation Discovery Channel is featuring Maura Murray TONIGHT, 2/8/2010 on their new series called Disappeared.
It airs at 9pm CST.

Maura's dad really moved me in the previews for this show.
Please tune in if you can to show your support for Maura.

quiqui
02-08-2010, 11:44 PM
I feel so bad for her family. I hope this coverage sparks some new information.

armywife210
02-09-2010, 12:07 AM
Just finished watching. I hope and pray that there is an answer very soon. Maura's loved ones have been without peace for far too long.

future criminologist
02-09-2010, 12:10 AM
Mr. Murray just breaks my heart - he reminds me of my own father (Boston accent included).

The NH police bungled this one from the first day - I really hope the Cold Case unit can rectify the errors and give Mr. Murray some answers. I will be following this case closely.

Her "Disappeared" episode left out a few things - the rag in the tailpipe, for example. The neighbor who thought she saw a man in the car. Similarities to Brianna Maitland's case. I was surprised they didn't offer more - I feel like I know more about this case than what was revealed in the episode.

wanttohelp
02-09-2010, 02:17 AM
Hi all,
I'm watching the episode of disapeared. I am joining in with you guys on this case. The thread for some reason has made me look twice ever since I can remember and then her father is what made me want to watch the show so bad (from the preview) Its weird but sometimes I think I get signs about things, not psychic, hard to explain I guess. It will take me awhile to catch up on the threads but I'll be back.

WholeLottaRosie
02-09-2010, 02:54 AM
I missed it, and just checked, the reshowing is almost over. But, I do see that they will show it again Friday evening at 8 pm CST, which I have Tivod. Wanted to point this out so if anyone else missed it they can catch it Friday.

Dejasade
02-09-2010, 11:10 AM
"Tests are being performed on possible new evidence in the mysterious disappearance six years ago of University of Massachusetts nursing student Maura Murray in Haverhill, according to Lt. James White, head of the New Hampshire State Police Major Crime Unit. Tuesday will mark the sixth anniversary of the day Murray vanished in the North Country after crashing her car on remote and winding Route 112 during a snowstorm shortly before 7:30 p.m. on Feb. 9, 2004.

Some time in the last two weeks, police received new information in the case, White said, though he declined to say exactly what it is.

This case is very much active." he said.

As a result of the new leads, White said, police collected items that are now in the process of being tested.

Union Leader...Nancy West 2/7/1
Article not online

do we know anything more about this?? I wonder what kind of "tests" are being done?

katier
02-09-2010, 02:24 PM
Saw the show last night. Puzzling to say the least. I am from MA. near Umass actually, so it was a reminder for me. I had forgotten all about this.

PrayersForMaura
02-09-2010, 04:23 PM
I am torn on this case.

Apart of me thinks she ran off due to all the pressures in her life.
But another part of me says someone kidnapped her and killed her.

The bus driver ... he had to have seen something!

PrayersForMaura
02-09-2010, 04:27 PM
Mr. Murray just breaks my heart - he reminds me of my own father (Boston accent included).

The NH police bungled this one from the first day - I really hope the Cold Case unit can rectify the errors and give Mr. Murray some answers. I will be following this case closely.

Her "Disappeared" episode left out a few things - the rag in the tailpipe, for example. The neighbor who thought she saw a man in the car. Similarities to Brianna Maitland's case. I was surprised they didn't offer more - I feel like I know more about this case than what was revealed in the episode.

I was surprised, too, that they didn't mention the rag in the tailpipe.
I pray everyday that Mr. Murray gets some answers.

It sure doesn't seem that Maura is alive. Otherwise she'd have been in contact, I am sure.

Is it possible a trucker picked her up where the dog lost her scent?
Can LE sit and watch cars that regularly travel that road and questions the drivers? It's just been soooooo long. LE seemed to make a lot of mistakes in this case.

There had to be footprints in the snow, tire tracks, etc.

Peabody
02-09-2010, 05:08 PM
Tonight sometime between 7 pm and 7:30 pm ( February 9, 2010 ) Maura Murray will have been missing for 6 years.

Her family knows no more about her missing now than when they first learned she was gone.

Please join me in prayer for answers to this mystery and for comfort of her family and friends.

Peabody
02-09-2010, 05:09 PM
Tonight sometime between 7 pm and 7:30 pm ( February 9, 2010 ) Maura Murray will have been missing for 6 years.

Her family knows no more about her missing now than when they first learned she was gone.

Please join me in prayer for answers to this mystery and for comfort of her family and friends.

katier
02-10-2010, 12:05 AM
My prayers went out to Mauras family tonight. I actually read this thread from start to finish today. It seems that it has been so long and new information will be hard to come by. It is all so sad.

belimom
02-10-2010, 12:24 AM
My prayers went out to Mauras family tonight. I actually read this thread from start to finish today. It seems that it has been so long and new information will be hard to come by. It is all so sad.

I believe this was one of the first cases I read from start to finish as well. It's also one of the ones that has stayed with me and that I think about often. Welcome to Websleuths, by the way...

cluciano63
02-10-2010, 06:15 PM
"Tests are being performed on possible new evidence in the mysterious disappearance six years ago of University of Massachusetts nursing student Maura Murray in Haverhill, according to Lt. James White, head of the New Hampshire State Police Major Crime Unit. Tuesday will mark the sixth anniversary of the day Murray vanished in the North Country after crashing her car on remote and winding Route 112 during a snowstorm shortly before 7:30 p.m. on Feb. 9, 2004.

Some time in the last two weeks, police received new information in the case, White said, though he declined to say exactly what it is.
This case is very much active." he said.

As a result of the new leads, White said, police collected items that are now in the process of being tested.

Union Leader...Nancy West 2/7/1
Article not online

is this true? is there some sort of info after 6 years and if so, what can it be? why won't they say, in case someone can fill in some pieces? this must drive this poor family even further into despair, unless they are being kept informed now...

KaylynnCouture
02-10-2010, 09:49 PM
I am torn on this case.

Apart of me thinks she ran off due to all the pressures in her life.
But another part of me says someone kidnapped her and killed her.

The bus driver ... he had to have seen something!

I just watched Maura's case on Disappeared last night, and I agree...the bus driver had to have seen more.

White Rain
02-10-2010, 11:33 PM
This case haunts me, it is one of my top ones that I would love to see solved.
My initial instincts was that Maura ran away from all the pressure of life...I have wished many of times I could do the same.
But as time goes on I am more and more unsure.
One thing I know: I have NEVER, NEVER suspected the school bus driver of anything improper. He called or had his wife call 911 (can't remember) and the dog tracks ended somewhere near his property...wouldn't they have followed a scent all the way to the school bus? Why would he bother calling 9-11 at all if he had something to do with this?
Everyone says school bus driver HAD to have seen something...well what about the people who initially called 911, SBD's neighbors...
Why didn't THEY hear/see something if we expect sbd to have done the same?

PrayersForMaura
02-11-2010, 12:44 AM
One thing I know: I have NEVER, NEVER suspected the school bus driver of anything improper. He called or had his wife call 911 (can't remember) and the dog tracks ended somewhere near his property...wouldn't they have followed a scent all the way to the school bus? Why would he bother calling 9-11 at all if he had something to do with this?
Everyone says school bus driver HAD to have seen something...well what about the people who initially called 911, SBD's neighbors...
Why didn't THEY hear/see something if we expect sbd to have done the same?

Because he actually stopped to talk to her. He was more inclined to see something or a car go by than others in their houses who didn't talk to Maura or see her.

We can all have our own theories and questions. That's what makes Websleuths so great.

gumshoe61
02-11-2010, 02:06 PM
This is my first post so I hope I get this right. After watching Disappeared my thoughts went to the woman who saw her at the gas station with a man in his 60's. What if she was abducted. I've been searching doenetwork.org and have found 2 women that resemble Maura. I'm just not sure where to post the links.

Peabody
02-15-2010, 12:29 PM
By Steven Dodrill
February 8, 2010
As the 6th anniversary of Maura's disappearance passes on Tuesday, her heartbroken family and friends will continue to look for answers.


Over the past six years, there's been very few new details released by investigators about the disappearance, but an article published in the New Hampshire Union Leader on Sunday states that tests are being performed on possible new evidence.


It's not clear what that evidence is.


Maura's family did not learn about the latest developments from State Police, instead, the family found out from a Union Leader reporter, who called to seek comment from the family.


complete article at
http://www.959watd.com/news.php?Hanson-Six-years-later-mystery-still-surrounds-Maura-Murray-disappearance-2928

Peabody
02-15-2010, 12:32 PM
By Steven Dodrill
February 8, 2010
As the 6th anniversary of Maura's disappearance passes on Tuesday, her heartbroken family and friends will continue to look for answers.


Over the past six years, there's been very few new details released by investigators about the disappearance, but an article published in the New Hampshire Union Leader on Sunday states that tests are being performed on possible new evidence.


It's not clear what that evidence is.


Maura's family did not learn about the latest developments from State Police, instead, the family found out from a Union Leader reporter, who called to seek comment from the family.


complete article at
http://www.959watd.com/news.php?Hanson-Six-years-later-mystery-still-surrounds-Maura-Murray-disappearance-2928

pittsburghgirl
02-15-2010, 01:15 PM
Well, if "it" is being tested, it's forensic. That suggests fingerprints, DNA, human remains, etc., or they've gone back to the car or the items therein and found something. But the article says that work is based on new "leads." Wow. Wonder what?

Let's hope this case is going somewhere now.

wanttohelp
02-15-2010, 02:51 PM
could they trace that call to the bf cell? maybe not since it was voicemail right.
actually they did trace it to a calling card, so did they have the location?

wanttohelp
02-15-2010, 04:06 PM
I just read atler died last year. also read aaa confirmed no call in that accident, in recking her dads car the aaa report is attached to the police report. im sure everyone has followed this but topix has a very loonnngggg thread that people have followed for years.
http://www.topix.com/forum/city/franconia-nh/TA6ONN0DQJ5QQL428/p35


i also read in an article that the mesage on bf phone was deleted?was it and if so why? how did they trace the calling card to red cross? i would like any info anyone has concerning this call.thanks

cuk
02-17-2010, 05:57 PM
Hi, Is there any new information on the new evidence?

future criminologist
02-17-2010, 06:11 PM
Well, if "it" is being tested, it's forensic. That suggests fingerprints, DNA, human remains, etc., or they've gone back to the car or the items therein and found something. But the article says that work is based on new "leads." Wow. Wonder what?

Let's hope this case is going somewhere now.

I really hope it's the knife that was handed to Mr. Murray by a local years ago, claiming it was the murder weapon. LE had never tested it for any DNA - can you believe that? It supposedly sat in storage. (LE also returned all of Maura's 'personal items' to her family, thereby disrupting the chain of custody of evidence and compromising anything that could have been tested. Unbelievable).

from the Whitman-Hanson Express (which has an EXCELLENT writeup on her case):

http://www.whitmanhansonexpress.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=81:maura-is-missing-part-iv-the-aftermath&catid=912&Itemid=83

"In late 2004, a man came forward to Fred with a stained, rusty jackknife. The stains were a reddish-brown color, Fred said. The man told Fred he thought his brother may have been connected to Maura's disappearance. At the time of Maura's accident the brother was living less than a mile away, the man related. He described his brother as having a record of violence and said that his brother's live-in girlfriend began acting strange around the time of Maura's disappearance.

Fred tried to turn the knife over to police but did not get beyond the plate glass window at state police headquarters, "I have what could be evidence in a capital crime," he recalled saying to the dispatcher, but the dispatcher said no one was available at headquarters to accept such evidence. Fred was told to come back during regular work hours. Fred then mailed the knife to state police along with all the information he received on the suspect. A few days later Fred received a proof of receipt that his package had reached the police but was never contacted by police regarding the knife or the possible suspect.

The man who came forward with the rusted jackknife died earlier this year. Efforts to reach his brother were unsuccessful.

The brother's identity and the identity of the man who approached Fred are not being disclosed because there is no evidence he is considered a suspect in Maura's disappearance. Police refused comment when asked about the knife."


In this case, it appears that LE incorrectly used deductive reasoning - they established a theory to begin with and tried to fit all the evidence discovered into that one theory, instead of being open to possibility and letting the evidence lead them to a theory or conclusion.

pittsburghgirl
02-17-2010, 06:37 PM
The knife would certainly be a possibility, if we are casting about for potential evidence to be "tested." And sad to say, yes I can believe the LE would be handed potential evidence and find it unworthy of consideration. Police work is subject to the same "human error" factor as driving a car or (in my case) cooking something.

I still want to know what the new lead is.

gnomony
02-17-2010, 06:39 PM
Does anyone have any idea why she was interested in Burlington, Vermont and searched for directions there before she left? Is it known that she had any friends there or had stayed there in the past?

pittsburghgirl
02-17-2010, 06:44 PM
She had been there on family trips before. If you are interested in the case, the official Maura Murray website has links to local newspaper articles that provide this kind of information on the case. (There are probably links on earlier Maura WS threads; I don't have the link handy as I am leaving work right now!).

PI_Baker
02-18-2010, 09:41 PM
Does anyone know if she kept a flashlight in her car e.g., in the glove compartment or in her roadside emergency kit and if so was it missing from the car when it was found? This would at least indicate she willingly left the car on foot.

PI_Baker
02-18-2010, 10:18 PM
Does anyone know if she kept a flashlight in her car e.g., in the glove compartment or in her roadside emergency kit and if so was it missing from the car when it was found? This would at least indicate she willingly left the car on foot.

nola
02-19-2010, 09:52 PM
Any updates on what the new evidence may be? Could it be the carpet from the A-frame house that the cadaver dogs reacted to some time back? Was that lead ever explored?

Does anyone know if the trunk of Maura's Saturn was opened at the scene of the accident? Is there any way that Maura hid inside after she put the rag in her exhaust pipe? If she was determined to leave without her family's knowledge and wanting to avoid a DUI...maybe she took advantage of hiding in plain sight (so to speak) --she had just witnessed how a car is treated when towed that previous Sunday morning when she crashed her dad's car...once she arrived at the tow center (back on Route 10) she would have been closer to busier streets or maybe a bus stop...

just trying to figure out a way that Maura could still be alive...

nola
02-19-2010, 09:58 PM
Do recall that Maura had an emergency kit in the trunk - it should have had a flashlight in it (most do) - not sure that any details have been released about its contents - except to say that a rag that according to her dad was part of the kit was found in her exhaust pipe ---

Darkness
02-19-2010, 10:02 PM
Any updates on what the new evidence may be? Could it be the carpet from the A-frame house that the cadaver dogs reacted to some time back? Was that lead ever explored?

Does anyone know if the trunk of Maura's Saturn was opened at the scene of the accident? Is there any way that Maura hid inside after she put the rag in her exhaust pipe? If she was determined to leave without her family's knowledge and wanting to avoid a DUI...maybe she took advantage of hiding in plain sight (so to speak) --she had just witnessed how a car is treated when towed that previous Sunday morning when she crashed her dad's car...once she arrived at the tow center (back on Route 10) she would have been closer to busier streets or maybe a bus stop...

just trying to figure out a way that Maura could still be alive...
Wow, Nola I never thought she could have hid in the trunk! That's one way to leave the scene.

Why did she put the rag in tail pipe? I always thought a bad guy did, and just waited for her to stall.

nola
02-19-2010, 10:10 PM
There was an emergency kit in her trunk - could have held a flashlight. She did leave her gloves in the car - if she were leaving the car for any length of time she would have put her gloves on.

nola
02-19-2010, 10:23 PM
My theory is that she didn't want anyone to attempt to move or drive the car after it was towed and while she was still in the trunk---so putting the rag in the pipe would make it stall, right ---
What if she wanted to get back into Haverhill (route 10) where she could get to a bus stop or use her calling card (cell doesn't work) to arrange for someone to pick her up. She could have left the car in route to Lavoie's or once the car was deposited on the lot. Remember her family didn't find out about the abandoned car until late in the day on Tuesday --Maura had lots of time to leave the area without notice. I really think that she wanted to escape her life --something drove her out of Amherst that day --something that she hid from her family. ...again just wishful thinking.

Darkness
02-19-2010, 10:28 PM
Nola, I hope your right............But its been a long time.......I don't know

PrayersForMaura
02-19-2010, 10:49 PM
Does anyone know what upset Maura so bad that she cried that day and wanted to get away? I mean, any friends of hers have ANY theories?

Was she pregnant perhaps?
Guess she wouldn't be drinking if she was pregnant though.

Any possibility she was failing a class? Any family troubles?
Was she diagnosed with an illness of any sort?

nola
02-19-2010, 11:01 PM
I just learned of Maura's story this week...so I am still stuck at square one-- it just seems to me that something happened at U-Mass the previous Thursday that started a domino effect in Maura's behavior and life. What have her U-Mass friends offered?--the ones she hung out with Saturday night prior to crashing her dad's car (why did she want to see her dad in the middle of the night?)-I have not seen any details about or interviews with those college friends.

If the investigation could only uncover why she left Amherst, we would know if the hope that she is still alive is reasonable.
Leaving the accident scene undetected without being abducted is only possible if she did stay with the car in my mind. Does anyone know how her car was processed? Was her Saturn ever really processed for prints - if she was in the trunk - her finger prints would be on the release latch and lid...Wonder where the car is now?

White Rain
02-19-2010, 11:32 PM
There was an emergency kit in her trunk - could have held a flashlight. She did leave her gloves in the car - if she were leaving the car for any length of time she would have put her gloves on.

I am kinda sketchy on this but I think it was said that she did NOT like wearing gloves, and that Sharon had bought her gloves hoping to get her to start wearing them. So leaving them behind doesn't seem odd to me.
I think there was even a pic of her hiking with her dad in the snow and it showed her bare hands in her pockets, bringing about the glove talk that I kinda/sorta remember.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

nola
02-20-2010, 12:25 AM
Any body remember why the locals didn't walk out to wait with the young girl that night? Small town America --just seems odd. Nothing against these people -- I am sure they wished they had. Hard to believe that someone could vanish in the span of 16 minutes with little traffic (I think, I recall that Mr Atwood said maybe 3-4 vehicles passed by while he was sitting in his bus doing paper work) and with neighbors watching on and off from their homes. Makes you think that if anyone did abduct Maura - they were taking a big risk of being noticed. Since this was a rural route - most traffic would be locals.
The interviews that the police conducted with each neighbor would be telling --wonder if any neighbor avoided being interviewed?

Masterj
02-20-2010, 12:28 AM
I am kinda sketchy on this but I think it was said that she did NOT like wearing gloves, and that Sharon had bought her gloves hoping to get her to start wearing them. So leaving them behind doesn't seem odd to me.
I think there was even a pic of her hiking with her dad in the snow and it showed her bare hands in her pockets, bringing about the glove talk that I kinda/sorta remember.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

I sort of remember something like that too. And the Dad was upset that the dogs sniffed the gloves b/c the gloves were new and she didn't wear them frequently. He thought the dogs should have been given something else.

I find it hard to believe that Maura was going away alone and purchased all that alcohol just for herself. That seems odd to me. But it is difficult to imagine that someone who appeared so close to her family would just up and disappear. I don't want to think something bad happened to her, but I can't fathom her just willfully disappearing and hurting her family like that.

Maura and her family are often in my thoughts. Last summer I drove the Kancamagus Highway and while it is such a beautiful ride, Maura is all I could think about. I would NEVER want to break down on that road in the winter. It is way too desolate.

nola
02-20-2010, 12:54 AM
I sort of remember something like that too. And the Dad was upset that the dogs sniffed the gloves b/c the gloves were new and she didn't wear them frequently. He thought the dogs should have been given something else.

I find it hard to believe that Maura was going away alone and purchased all that alcohol just for herself. That seems odd to me. But it is difficult to imagine that someone who appeared so close to her family would just up and disappear. I don't want to think something bad happened to her, but I can't fathom her just willfully disappearing and hurting her family like that.

Maura and her family are often in my thoughts. Last summer I drove the Kancamagus Highway and while it is such a beautiful ride, Maura is all I could think about. I would NEVER want to break down on that road in the winter. It is way too desolate.


That is such a great point...why would MM take the risk of breaking down on that rural route - her car was not reliable-- and had broken down three weeks earlier. Her dad had instructed her to park it. Whatever made her leave U-Mass was pretty serious. And something she didn't share with anyone. Her only explanation was "family emergency and death in the family" -- what made her take such a high risk drive?

nola
02-20-2010, 12:58 AM
Did anyone open the trunk of MM's Saturn at the accident site? Accident report does not indicate...

White Rain
02-20-2010, 01:12 AM
I sort of remember something like that too. And the Dad was upset that the dogs sniffed the gloves b/c the gloves were new and she didn't wear them frequently. He thought the dogs should have been given something else.

I find it hard to believe that Maura was going away alone and purchased all that alcohol just for herself. That seems odd to me. But it is difficult to imagine that someone who appeared so close to her family would just up and disappear. I don't want to think something bad happened to her, but I can't fathom her just willfully disappearing and hurting her family like that.

Maura and her family are often in my thoughts. Last summer I drove the Kancamagus Highway and while it is such a beautiful ride, Maura is all I could think about. I would NEVER want to break down on that road in the winter. It is way too desolate.


I know exactly what you mean...but then I myself, when life has gotten to the breaking point wished I could just up and leave, family be damned. I could/can never bring myself to do it but who says someone else couldn't?
I guess I am one of those who think she took off on her own for a few days of peaceful solitude, and was maybe a little drunk and scared to get caught after she crashed yet again and ran...but then the dog scent track stops me from thinking further along that line...
A most puzzling case...one of my top 5 I would LOVE to see solved.

nola
02-20-2010, 02:44 AM
Any chance MM hid in the trunk?

Darkness
02-20-2010, 11:05 PM
I think her friends were interviewed but they didn't shed much light on Maura's mood. I think Maura was a very private person, things that you & I would share with friends she wouldn't.

The car was processed by LE "months" after it was towed to the garage. At the time of her disappearance LE thought she just walked away on her own, so the car was just towed away. Processing was part of the new investigation so we never heard if anything usable was found in or on the car. Boy!..... skin cells on the rag, beer bottle in back seat, DNA, fingerprints in the car, hair-fibers in car....I wonder what was found!! On the other hand the someday defense attorney is going to have a field day on how the whole LE handling of this case.

nola
02-21-2010, 12:22 PM
Wonder where the car is now...if the trunk were processed for fingerprints...would the interior release latch and inside lid show MM's prints?

If Maura did leave the scene via the tow - the possibilities of her current location are then very different than what is now believed.

If she were suicidal, and wanting to do harm to herself --my bet is that she continued to a Bartlet mountain area- climbed to a remote spot where she may never be found. But if she were planning to meet someone - she could have found a pay phone and called for that person to pick her up. She could be living in Canada now.

What drove her out of Amherst is the key to solving this mystery.

pittsburghgirl
02-21-2010, 06:38 PM
Does anyone know what upset Maura so bad that she cried that day and wanted to get away? I mean, any friends of hers have ANY theories?

Was she pregnant perhaps?
Guess she wouldn't be drinking if she was pregnant though.

Any possibility she was failing a class? Any family troubles?
Was she diagnosed with an illness of any sort?

From what I've read in the media and on several web sites, these are questions for which no one has certain answers. All of them (as well as others) have provided jumping off points for various theories for internet posters.

I have no idea what her friends might think about her disappearance. Really, in terms of her intentions for the trip, there are several possibilities:

1. She was going to NH alone for a short "break" but fully expected to return to UMass.
2. She was going to NH alone as the first stage in setting up her own disappearance.
3. She was going to NH to commit suicide.
4. She had some sort of "business" in NH, either a meeting with someone else (friend, lover or associate) or somewhere in particular that she wanted to go.

Then, there is the question of where and when she disappeared. The question here involves whether it was Maura at the site of the wreck in NH. Was it Maura with her hair down or a man with long hair or someone else? If Maura was not at the car wreck site, either she was abducted (taken against her will at some earlier stage of the trip), or someone else was driving the Saturn with her permission. That individual may have had an unfortunate accident (but didn't want to be caught with the car) or was carrying out a plan to dump the car and stage an accident.

If Maura was at the car wreck site, she might have left the car voluntarily to stage an accident, abandoned it because she couldn't face wrecking two in a week or abandoned it because she had been drinking and didn't want to take a breathalyzer. She might have been picked up by someone she was planning to meet, by a helpful stranger, or a killer.

It's possible that the reasons for the trip have nothing to do with Maura's disappearance, other than putting her in the place where she was last seen, and thus speculating about them is a waste of time. Or it might be that her disappearance is directly and materially connected to her reasons for the trip (e.g., that she was killed by the person she intended to meet or that her intention all along was to disappear.

Myself, I've never liked the fact that she bothered to put meaningful items in the car, which were then just left there. I'm bothered by speculation that there was damage to the Saturn not consistent with the situation at the scene of the accident. And I'm bothered by the issue of why a woman who nearly always had her hair up or in ponytail in pictures would start out on a car trip with her down. That makes me wonder if it was Maura in the car at all or whether the witness accounts about Maura at the scense were at all correct.

gnomony
02-21-2010, 09:17 PM
I've missed some bits and pieces in this long thread, so maybe this has been addressed -- but something bothers me.

She spent about $40 on alcohol just before she left -- Bailey's, Kahlua, vodka and a box of red Franzia wine.

At today's prices and in my New England location, 375 ml bottles of the liquor would be about $12-$13 each, and the box of Franzia red wine would be about the same. I'm assuming that prices have increased in six years, so it's a reasonable guess that she could buy roughly the same amount for about $40 back then.

Only the wine was found in the car, and it appeared that she had been drinking some of that out of a coke bottle. The liquor was gone.

If my assumptions about bottle size and pricing are correct, the three missing liquor bottles each contained 12.7 oz. Drunk as she may have been at the time of the accident, it seems unlikely that a 120-pound young woman could have consumed 38 shots of liquor, plus some of the wine, in roughly three hours.

This suggests to me that she stopped somewhere before the accident site and that she either left off the liquor or that someone joined her in consuming it.

Where did the Bailey's, Kahlua and vodka go?

As an alternative theory, if she really did consume all that alcohol (and threw the bottles out the window), a good samaritan could have picked her up at the accident scene only to have her immediately die in his car. Who knows what he might then have done or why...

nola
02-21-2010, 10:04 PM
From what I have read when MM disappeared also missing was a black backpack that she always had with her. It is assumed that she took it with her along with her cell phone, id, cash, etc.,.

It is known what she purchased because the receipt was still in the car.
There was also an ATM video showing MM withdraw the $280 in Amherst--would be interesting to know if her hair was up or down in the clip. I have never seen the ATM video - but LE did say that she was alone in it and did not look as if she were in distress. There was also an interview with her sister saying that MM had Tylenol PM with her too.

About her hair: Wonder if the airbag deploying would undo the typical bun/ponytail? There was a pretty big spider web break in the windshield on the driver side...Butch Atwood could have caught her with her hair falling down...

Any insight about when the hit and run near U-Mass campus occurred? I know that Vasi was discovered before midnight either wondering the streets or lying in the street with a head injury - but what if MM had hit him with her car earlier that evening before she went to her security job...what if she had been drinking and wasn't sure what she had hit.....she could have realized that she did in fact hit a person while at work ---maybe someone phoned to let campus security know about a possible hit and run --she got confirmation and that's why she became so upset that night. What time did MM go to work that night? where was she before work?

So many questions -- and very little insight offered from the U-Mass friends that I have seen.

pittsburghgirl
02-21-2010, 11:27 PM
There was also an ATM video showing MM withdraw the $280 in Amherst--would be interesting to know if her hair was up or down in the clip. I have never seen the ATM video - but LE did say that she was alone in it and did not look as if she were in distress. There was also an interview with her sister saying that MM had Tylenol PM with her too.


I agree that the ATM machine could give us at least some confirmation about what Maura looked like as she left Amherst. If her hair was up, then I have real questions about the identity of the person in NH, because women almost never undo their hair once it's up--it never looks right and is not comfortable. There's also the possibility she had it cut before she left, which might indicate either an intent to change her appearance or else some emotional state that made her want "a change."

As to the issue of the liquor, it's odd to me that she would take the liquor but not the jewelry and other sentimental items--unless she figured she didn't want to be caught with liquor in the car and so packed it out and left the other stuff, figuring to get it back later. But then--why leave wine in the Coke bottle? That's a dead giveaway for drinking.

Most of the time, this case makes no sense at all. It may just be that Maura was tired and not thinking too well, after a long drive and a second accident in a few days.

gnomony
02-22-2010, 07:50 AM
From what I have read when MM disappeared also missing was a black backpack that she always had with her. It is assumed that she took it with her along with her cell phone, id, cash, etc.,.

Okay, I missed that. So perhaps she took the liquor with her. Thx.

cluciano63
02-22-2010, 11:38 AM
the bottled of liquor would have been very heavy to carry and seems like they would have been found if she ditched them...

what is the saddest thing to me is that i truly believe she has a father who would have helped her with and understood anything that she could have been going through...my heart breaks for him- i do not think she could possibly be alive as imo she would never let her family go through this...i hope the police truly do have something to break this case that will hold up, it has been such a mess...

nola
02-22-2010, 10:00 PM
Does anybody know why she left West Point? I recall her dad saying something about her wanting to save lives (nursing); not wanting to take them --- but I have heard other reports that she was asked to leave?? Not sure what's the true story...

If she thought she had killed the pedestrian near U-Mass campus that Thursday night--this could be enough to shatter anyone's belief in themselves. Even question whether she would want to put family and friends through something she was entirely responsible for...
...trying to imagine what would make this girl run is impossible without more information from people who interacted with her each day...

pittsburghgirl
02-23-2010, 08:07 PM
There might be a big difference between a young woman who had been driven to succeed (distance running, West Point, etc.) taking a weekend or a week to get her thoughts and life in order, taking a break and a young woman "running" from or to something. Even if she had been "running," there is no sign that she intended to leave everything but the backpack behind her. She didn't even zero out her bank account. It comes down to this:

1. Either she planned to disappear (or worse)

2. Or she intended to be gone only a few days.

In either case, she could have met with foul play. While her behavior is intriguing, there is no way to know whether her intentions for the week or so ahead of her have anything to do with her disappearance (other than putting her in the geographical location where her car was abandoned).

White Rain
02-23-2010, 11:24 PM
Any chance MM hid in the trunk?


If she did hide in the trunk...how would she get out? was there a release button in the saturn trunk?
I have trouble believeing ANYONE would hide in a trunk unless they knew for sure how to get out.

cluciano63
02-24-2010, 12:29 AM
i think that even if she meant initially to disappear, she never would have kept it up this long and cause so many people so much pain, it does not fit with what her family and friends know of her and she could not be unaware that they were all looking for her, if she were still alive. I think that people that do that and can stay "gone" usually have committed a terrible crime or don't really have close family ties, and this does not seem to fit Maura.

pittsburghgirl
02-24-2010, 02:12 PM
i think that even if she meant initially to disappear, she never would have kept it up this long and cause so many people so much pain, it does not fit with what her family and friends know of her and she could not be unaware that they were all looking for her, if she were still alive. I think that people that do that and can stay "gone" usually have committed a terrible crime or don't really have close family ties, and this does not seem to fit Maura.

I agree. It wouldn't take much to pick up the phone and make a call to a friend, even if she couldn't face her parents for some reason. And I cannot for the life of me think she would miss her mother's funeral.

belimom
02-24-2010, 03:32 PM
I agree. It wouldn't take much to pick up the phone and make a call to a friend, even if she couldn't face her parents for some reason. And I cannot for the life of me think she would miss her mother's funeral.


i think that even if she meant initially to disappear, she never would have kept it up this long and cause so many people so much pain, it does not fit with what her family and friends know of her and she could not be unaware that they were all looking for her, if she were still alive. I think that people that do that and can stay "gone" usually have committed a terrible crime or don't really have close family ties, and this does not seem to fit Maura.

I think the most compelling evidence for foul play is: no body (or any evidence at all - clothes, shoes, etc). Even if she had harmed herself and a wild animal got to her remains, there would be evidence. And there has been nothing.

nola
02-24-2010, 09:00 PM
There might be a big difference between a young woman who had been driven to succeed (distance running, West Point, etc.) taking a weekend or a week to get her thoughts and life in order, taking a break and a young woman "running" from or to something. Even if she had been "running," there is no sign that she intended to leave everything but the backpack behind her. She didn't even zero out her bank account. It comes down to this:

1. Either she planned to disappear (or worse)

2. Or she intended to be gone only a few days.

In either case, she could have met with foul play. While her behavior is intriguing, there is no way to know whether her intentions for the week or so ahead of her have anything to do with her disappearance (other than putting her in the geographical location where her car was abandoned).

You are right --she may have just wanted to get away --but if that's it-- then she would have contacted her family as soon as she got to a phone. I so want this girl to be alive (as we all do) and it is so sad to think that something bad could happen so quick and leave no trace. I know it happens all the time -- but with Maura -"Running" in my mind gives more hope for her safety. I keep trying to work out a reason that she would feel that she was not worthy of her loving family---????. Obviously, nothing she could have ever done would have made this true --but young people don't always realize this truth in the face of crisis. The search for a reason to run/ a crisis (if there was one) directs my attention to her actions/behaviors before Monday.

Prayers for Maura and her family...

nola
02-24-2010, 09:05 PM
There might be a big difference between a young woman who had been driven to succeed (distance running, West Point, etc.) taking a weekend or a week to get her thoughts and life in order, taking a break and a young woman "running" from or to something. Even if she had been "running," there is no sign that she intended to leave everything but the backpack behind her. She didn't even zero out her bank account. It comes down to this:

1. Either she planned to disappear (or worse)

2. Or she intended to be gone only a few days.

In either case, she could have met with foul play. While her behavior is intriguing, there is no way to know whether her intentions for the week or so ahead of her have anything to do with her disappearance (other than putting her in the geographical location where her car was abandoned).

You are right --she may have just wanted to get away --but if that's it-- then she would have contacted her family as soon as she got to a phone. I so want this girl to be alive (as we all do) and it is so sad to think that something bad could happen so quick and leave no trace. I know it happens all the time -- but with Maura -"Running" in my mind gives more hope for her safety. I keep trying to work out a reason that she would feel that she was not worthy of her loving family---????. Obviously, nothing she could have ever done would have made this true --but young people don't always realize this truth in the face of crisis. The search for a reason to run/ a crisis (if there was one) directs my attention to her actions/behaviors before Monday.

Prayers for Maura and her family...