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dasgal
05-19-2006, 01:12 PM
I know some of the old supporters used to rub the "guilties" the wrong way, but from those I'd had the pleasure of knowing, I'd say that 90 percent of them had thier hearts in the right places. Every one in a while I stopped to ponder what ever became of them. I wonder if they still believe she is innocent.
A lot of time has passed now-a decade in a few weeks-and I just wonder how many still believe, and how many have come to have doubts or more.
For those of you who lurk and still believe, please feel free to contact me privately if that is more comfortable.....I'd just love to catch up. We wouldn't have to talk about the "Darlie" at all.
Cindy

Cyndi
07-11-2006, 06:00 AM
Hey JonGalt or is it Dasgal these days? I remember you , mainly from the pink board and Cheryl's old board. I was always on the fence, not convinced beyond a reasonible doubt either way. Where am I now? It's been a long while since I've read much at all or visited any Darlie forums and I've forgotten a LOT and I suppose I am still on the fence somewhat and still leaning towards guilt as I always was. I THINK she did it, the hardest thing for me to understand is HOW she could do something so horrendous to her own children, I mean this has to be the worst murder case of a mother killing her kids that I've ever heard about - it's grotesque and I find it so hard to beleive that a mother could kill her babies in such a way. One thing I AM convinced of is that if she is indeed guilty, she didn't act alone. Darin helped her IMO. NO WAY could she be guilty with him choosing to support her within minutes of finding his children butchered to death by their mother unless he was involved, NO WAY.

Hope your well!

Jeana (DP)
07-11-2006, 09:41 AM
Hey JonGalt or is it Dasgal these days? I remember you , mainly from the pink board and Cheryl's old board. I was always on the fence, not convinced beyond a reasonible doubt either way. Where am I now? It's been a long while since I've read much at all or visited any Darlie forums and I've forgotten a LOT and I suppose I am still on the fence somewhat and still leaning towards guilt as I always was. I THINK she did it, the hardest thing for me to understand is HOW she could do something so horrendous to her own children, I mean this has to be the worst murder case of a mother killing her kids that I've ever heard about - it's grotesque and I find it so hard to beleive that a mother could kill her babies in such a way. One thing I AM convinced of is that if she is indeed guilty, she didn't act alone. Darin helped her IMO. NO WAY could she be guilty with him choosing to support her within minutes of finding his children butchered to death by their mother unless he was involved, NO WAY.

Hope your well!


If this was the worst case, then you didn't hear about the Plano, Texas, woman who cut off the arms of her 10-month old daughter. Unfortunately, women have and always will have the ability to do this to their children. Sad, but true.

Delores
07-11-2006, 01:03 PM
I am crossed over and disgusted at myself for being an idiot . I used to really feel sorrow and pity for those people.I prayed for them, and while I never recind a prayer I have offered up to God, I can see God answered by light upon the information.

Jeana (DP)
07-11-2006, 01:43 PM
I am crossed over and disgusted at myself for being an idiot . I used to really feel sorrow and pity for those people.I prayed for them, and while I never recind a prayer I have offered up to God, I can see God answered by light upon the information.

Seriously, don't be so hard on yourself. Some of them are damn convincing. If I hadn't read and seen everything that I have, I may be on the fence too. They all probably still need your prayers though. I see them as more victims of Darlie and they need all the help they can get. Time is getting short.

Delores
07-11-2006, 02:07 PM
Seriously, don't be so hard on yourself. Some of them are damn convincing. If I hadn't read and seen everything that I have, I may be on the fence too. They all probably still need your prayers though. I see them as more victims of Darlie and they need all the help they can get. Time is getting short.that is true, and as a prayer person , I do need to keep praying,everybody has a chance to be truthful before judgement day and her family still deserves compassionate mercy as it is a wound that has never healed.They seem to be forever under scrutiney since they stand by her .

Cyndi
07-12-2006, 06:45 AM
If this was the worst case, then you didn't hear about the Plano, Texas, woman who cut off the arms of her 10-month old daughter. Unfortunately, women have and always will have the ability to do this to their children. Sad, but true.

I haven't heard of this one - I would love to know more about it but it just sounds too sick. I don't think I want to know about this one. Can you tell me though, was she found guilty and sentanced to DR? What made her do this? was she sick and mentally unstable or is it another case of a just a normal woman snapping? Personally I'd have to believe there was something very very wrong with her if she was capable of cutting limbs of another human being, especially her 10 month old child..... sicko

Thanks

Jeana (DP)
07-12-2006, 09:39 AM
I haven't heard of this one - I would love to know more about it but it just sounds too sick. I don't think I want to know about this one. Can you tell me though, was she found guilty and sentanced to DR? What made her do this? was she sick and mentally unstable or is it another case of a just a normal woman snapping? Personally I'd have to believe there was something very very wrong with her if she was capable of cutting limbs of another human being, especially her 10 month old child..... sicko

Thanks


Here's the results of the trial and the link to the thread where we discussed this case:

NOT GUILTY:

9:42 AM A judge decided Friday that Dena Schlosser was not guilty of capital murder for cutting off her infant daughterís arms, ensuring that she will be sent to a mental hospital. State District Judge Chris Oldner presided over Ms. Schlosserís first trial, which ended in a mistrial after a jury deadlocked 10-2 in favor of the same finding: not guilty by reason of insanity.


http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcon...r.108ec24a.html

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36294&page=3&highlight=cut

Jimthecarpetguy
07-12-2006, 10:58 AM
WTF,is there something in the air in TX?That Schlosser thing is way out there and it's pretty scary that she could be released someday.

Jeana (DP)
07-12-2006, 11:08 AM
WTF,is there something in the air in TX?That Schlosser thing is way out there and it's pretty scary that she could be released someday.


No joke! They all seemed to happen right about the same time. There were the three of them. Yates, Schlosser and the woman who stoned two of her boys to death in the front yard! People were beginning to think we all drank the Koolaid or something.

The thing that all three had in common was a religous wing nut too attached to their families. In the Schlosser case, his name is Doyle Davidson from the Water of Life "Church." This man is a complete nut bag and anyone with a mental disease to begin with would be completely bonkers once he was done with them. There's an article in the June 2006 edition of "D Magazine" about him and its just sick the influence he has over the lives of his "people."

Goody
07-12-2006, 10:32 PM
No joke! They all seemed to happen right about the same time. There were the three of them. Yates, Schlosser and the woman who stoned two of her boys to death in the front yard! People were beginning to think we all drank the Koolaid or something.

The thing that all three had in common was a religous wing nut too attached to their families. In the Schlosser case, his name is Doyle Davidson from the Water of Life "Church." This man is a complete nut bag and anyone with a mental disease to begin with would be completely bonkers once he was done with them. There's an article in the June 2006 edition of "D Magazine" about him and its just sick the influence he has over the lives of his "people."
Also, all three women were certifiable in a very real sense. Not anything like Darlie, Debra Green, Susan Smith, Diane Downs, or Debra Milke. The three you are talking about were and are truly crazy.

Jeana (DP)
07-13-2006, 09:38 AM
Also, all three women were certifiable in a very real sense. Not anything like Darlie, Debra Green, Susan Smith, Diane Downs, or Debra Milke. The three you are talking about were and are truly crazy.


Absolutely.

Cassata11
07-20-2006, 02:55 PM
In this case I didn't experience a "change of heart" like I did with Danielle Van Dam/David Westerfield. That case really changed the way I looked at criminals and slimey defense attornies. I stayed on the fence with that case for months, and watched CourtTV everyday. Three message boards, and chat rooms...lol. I didn't want to believe that a man that has an ex-wife, girlfriends, kids, tons of "women" porn would do this to such a little girl. It was only after the "deal" that David Westerfield "almost" made with prosecutors became public, that I sat and just cried.

On that note. I think Jeana says it right on. people kill. There is no answers in every case. I follow this Darlie case to find the "why", and besides our AWESOME family of junior investigators/shrinks/counselors we still don't know the truth.

and the beat goes on...

Alcina
07-26-2006, 01:32 AM
Seriously, don't be so hard on yourself. Some of them are damn convincing. If I hadn't read and seen everything that I have, I may be on the fence too. They all probably still need your prayers though. I see them as more victims of Darlie and they need all the help they can get. Time is getting short.
I came here thinking Darlie innocent. (I had only read one book on the case at that time) Now after ready *every* thread here as well as the transcripts, etc I am totally convinced she is right where she belongs.

Jeana (DP)
07-26-2006, 09:24 AM
I came here thinking Darlie innocent. (I had only read one book on the case at that time) Now after ready *every* thread here as well as the transcripts, etc I am totally convinced she is right where she belongs.


She definately is. I'm not jumping for joy over the fact that either. Its the most unfortunate outcome that there ever could be. None of us want her to be the one who her kids saw come after them with a butcher's knife.

Alcina
07-27-2006, 02:25 AM
She definately is. I'm not jumping for joy over the fact that either. Its the most unfortunate outcome that there ever could be. None of us want her to be the one who her kids saw come after them with a butcher's knife.
Exactly. I did not want Darlie to be guilty but she is. :(

southcitymom
07-27-2006, 09:50 PM
If this was the worst case, then you didn't hear about the Plano, Texas, woman who cut off the arms of her 10-month old daughter. Unfortunately, women have and always will have the ability to do this to their children. Sad, but true.That's the thing, though, Jeana - the woman who chopped off her baby's arms is obviously mad as a hatter, certifiably so. For that reason, I can make "sense" (as much sense as you can make) of that crime. The motive is barking insanity.

In Darlie's case, for all of the reading I have done and for all of the opinions I have read and for all the theories I have entertained, I am unable to find a motive that satisfies me. I think she is guilty. I just don't know why she did it...it makes me crazy.

StellaTravers
07-27-2006, 11:12 PM
In Darlie's case, for all of the reading I have done and for all of the opinions I have read and for all the theories I have entertained, I am unable to find a motive that satisfies me. I think she is guilty. I just don't know why she did it...it makes me crazy.

THAT is the biggest part of my interest in this case. In the back of my mind, I hope that one day I will figure out why she did it and what is going on in her head now. I don't think it will ever make sense and she is going to go to her grave claiming she is innocent. I would love to think she is, but there is too much that doesn't make sense.

cami
07-28-2006, 08:21 AM
THAT is the biggest part of my interest in this case. In the back of my mind, I hope that one day I will figure out why she did it and what is going on in her head now. I don't think it will ever make sense and she is going to go to her grave claiming she is innocent. I would love to think she is, but there is too much that doesn't make sense.

Me Too. I don't want her to be guilty either but I know she is. And I want to know why she did this but I don't think she will ever talk.

southcitymom
07-28-2006, 08:49 AM
Me Too. I don't want her to be guilty either but I know she is. And I want to know why she did this but I don't think she will ever talk.
It's just so frustrating that two young boys died violent deaths in the place where they should have been safest and no one really knows how or why. Darlie is a lying sociopath who will never honor her sons by speaking the truth about all this.

Jeana (DP)
07-28-2006, 09:12 AM
That's the thing, though, Jeana - the woman who chopped off her baby's arms is obviously mad as a hatter, certifiably so. For that reason, I can make "sense" (as much sense as you can make) of that crime. The motive is barking insanity.

In Darlie's case, for all of the reading I have done and for all of the opinions I have read and for all the theories I have entertained, I am unable to find a motive that satisfies me. I think she is guilty. I just don't know why she did it...it makes me crazy.


I understand completely. I think she just snapped. Alll the things in her life that were going wrong I think just took their toll and the marriage falling apart was the straw that broke the camel's back in my opinion.

southcitymom
07-28-2006, 11:22 AM
I understand completely. I think she just snapped. Alll the things in her life that were going wrong I think just took their toll and the marriage falling apart was the straw that broke the camel's back in my opinion.
It's true that a lot of unrest and stress was occurring in her life (marriage on brink, financial difficulties, new baby on top of two active boys, taking diet pills, etc...) and your thoughts on her just snapping are probably very close to the truth. I certainly am more comfortable viewing this as a passionate and not a calculated act of murder.

Still, let's say you snapped like her and stabbed your sons to death...and then you come to and realize you need to save your own skin, so you slit your throat and stage all this BS and come up with this wild crazy story, etc..etc.. like Darlie did. Okay, so she's in "save my neck" mode at that point and everything she says is a lie and she's lying to cover up her crime and I GET that. It's self-preservative and we all know Darlie is into herself, first and foremost.

But....WHY no remourse at the gravesite - WHY that crazy silly string insanity? WHY the absence of any public grief even though cameras and eyes were on her constantly. If she were still in "save my neck" mode, don't you think she would be weeping and wailing to the high heavens - to look like a grieving parent if nothing else?

Do you think once she killed them in a momentary act of rage, then she truly just did not care and did not miss them and did not grieve? What is the point of keeping all of that in - whether their death is your fault or not? Does she weep alone in her cell at night? Was what she did so heinous that she has somehow managed to convince herself that her lies about that night are true - just so she can continue to live without blowing her brains out?

Where was her grief? Where is her grief? I don't know if I am making any sense, but these things confuse me greatly. This piece of me wants to know that she loved those boys and she just snapped and lost it.

Jeana (DP)
07-28-2006, 12:24 PM
It's true that a lot of unrest and stress was occurring in her life (marriage on brink, financial difficulties, new baby on top of two active boys, taking diet pills, etc...) and your thoughts on her just snapping are probably very close to the truth. I certainly am more comfortable viewing this as a passionate and not a calculated act of murder.

Still, let's say you snapped like her and stabbed your sons to death...and then you come to and realize you need to save your own skin, so you slit your throat and stage all this BS and come up with this wild crazy story, etc..etc.. like Darlie did. Okay, so she's in "save my neck" mode at that point and everything she says is a lie and she's lying to cover up her crime and I GET that. It's self-preservative and we all know Darlie is into herself, first and foremost.

But....WHY no remourse at the gravesite - WHY that crazy silly string insanity? WHY the absence of any public grief even though cameras and eyes were on her constantly. If she were still in "save my neck" mode, don't you think she would be weeping and wailing to the high heavens - to look like a grieving parent if nothing else?

Do you think once she killed them in a momentary act of rage, then she truly just did not care and did not miss them and did not grieve? What is the point of keeping all of that in - whether their death is your fault or not? Does she weep alone in her cell at night? Was what she did so heinous that she has somehow managed to convince herself that her lies about that night are true - just so she can continue to live without blowing her brains out?

Where was her grief? Where is her grief? I don't know if I am making any sense, but these things confuse me greatly. This piece of me wants to know that she loved those boys and she just snapped and lost it.

I think she is a narcissist and her life, her feelings, her priorities came first.

southcitymom
07-28-2006, 01:49 PM
I think she is a narcissist and her life, her feelings, her priorities came first.
Agreed, but wouldn't one of her priorities be to stay off of death row? And wouldn't the appearance of grief bolster her claims that someone else murdered her children? Even Susan Smith wept and cried and all that after she killed her children - it made her story seem better.

I just don't get Darlie's behavior.

cami
07-28-2006, 01:59 PM
Agreed, but wouldn't one of her priorities be to stay off of death row? And wouldn't the appearance of grief bolster her claims that someone else murdered her children? Even Susan Smith wept and cried and all that after she killed her children - it made her story seem better.

I just don't get Darlie's behavior.

I think she was oblivous to the fact that they were building a case against her. She thought they believed her lies. "aha I got away with this" hence the spraying of the silly string. She always got away with it didn't she. All she used was some cunning disguised by smiles and softness to get her own way....until June 6, 1996.

My opinion only..

sharkeyes
07-28-2006, 02:47 PM
I think she is a narcissist and her life, her feelings, her priorities came first.
I agree, a female equivalent of Scott Peterson, IMO.

Last night I caught some of (fell asleep) "Women Who Kill" on Biography Channel, it's a new show that profiled female murderers according to a scale developed by a doctor(?), I don't remember if the guy was a medical doctor or psychiatrist - anyway, he has developed a numbered scale and "rated" various women who have committed murder, i.e. Marybeth Tinning, Susan Smith, Andrea Yates...but Darlie was not included (I think because all those profiled had admitted to committing their crimes). I'd like to know where Darlie would land on his "evil scale".

Jeana (DP)
07-28-2006, 02:51 PM
Agreed, but wouldn't one of her priorities be to stay off of death row? And wouldn't the appearance of grief bolster her claims that someone else murdered her children? Even Susan Smith wept and cried and all that after she killed her children - it made her story seem better.

I just don't get Darlie's behavior.


I believe she never in a million years thought they'd arrest what she considered to be an "upper middle class, young mother who just lost two children." I watched the news the night she was arrested and the look of shock on her face was absolute.

Jeana (DP)
07-28-2006, 02:53 PM
I agree, a female equivalent of Scott Peterson, IMO.

Last night I caught some of (fell asleep) "Women Who Kill" on Biography Channel, it's a new show that profiled female murderers according to a scale developed by a doctor(?), I don't remember if the guy was a medical doctor or psychiatrist - anyway, he has developed a numbered scale and "rated" various women who have committed murder, i.e. Marybeth Tinning, Susan Smith, Andrea Yates...but Darlie was not included (I think because all those profiled had admitted to committing their crimes). I'd like to know where Darlie would land on his "evil scale".


I watched that too!!! I couldn't believe the last woman they talked about who murdered her two daughters so viciously. That is a woman with no soul! I had hoped too, that they would talk about Darlie's case. I think what she did is worse than Susan Smith any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

southcitymom
07-28-2006, 03:14 PM
I watched that too!!! I couldn't believe the last woman they talked about who murdered her two daughters so viciously. That is a woman with no soul! I had hoped too, that they would talk about Darlie's case. I think what she did is worse than Susan Smith any day of the week and twice on Sundays.
I watched it three - and yes, that last woman was some kind of monster. Darlie wouldn't rate as high as the Knorr woman because she did not torture her children longterm.

southcitymom
07-28-2006, 03:15 PM
I believe she never in a million years thought they'd arrest what she considered to be an "upper middle class, young mother who just lost two children." I watched the news the night she was arrested and the look of shock on her face was absolute.
Interesting about her genuine shock...what a dummy.

Jeana (DP)
07-28-2006, 03:45 PM
I watched it three - and yes, that last woman was some kind of monster. Darlie wouldn't rate as high as the Knorr woman because she did not torture her children longterm.


I agree, but I feel she's worse than Aileen Wurnos and the others.

Jeana (DP)
07-28-2006, 03:47 PM
Interesting about her genuine shock...what a dummy.


Yes, it was quite a contrast from the smiling, gum smacking, silly string spraying beyotch that we saw previous to it. People in the area were OUTRAGED when it was discovered that she did it. I can personally say that my children slept in our bedroom from the time of the murder to the day of the arrest because we just weren't sure if there was some crazed murderer out there.

southcitymom
07-28-2006, 04:12 PM
I agree, but I feel she's worse than Aileen Wurnos and the others.
Yes - definitely worse than Wournos, Smith, Yates and many others, IMO.

southcitymom
07-28-2006, 04:17 PM
Yes, it was quite a contrast from the smiling, gum smacking, silly string spraying beyotch that we saw previous to it. People in the area were OUTRAGED when it was discovered that she did it. I can personally say that my children slept in our bedroom from the time of the murder to the day of the arrest because we just weren't sure if there was some crazed murderer out there.
I forgot you're a Texas woman! I wasn't aware of the Routier case when it happened or as it was being investigated, so I didn't see alot of the initial coverage and media. I have just been interested in it after the fact. It is a mind-boggling case, to me.

The only one that confounds me even more - for obvious reasons as no one has ever been charged or convicted - is JonBenet Ramsey.

Jeana (DP)
07-28-2006, 04:41 PM
I forgot you're a Texas woman! I wasn't aware of the Routier case when it happened or as it was being investigated, so I didn't see alot of the initial coverage and media. I have just been interested in it after the fact. It is a mind-boggling case, to me.

The only one that confounds me even more - for obvious reasons as no one has ever been charged or convicted - is JonBenet Ramsey.


Their house was directly across the lake from mine, less than a five minute drive. My two youngest kids were 3 and 5 years old at that time. I was pretty stressed out about the whole thing, as were all of the other parents that I knew.

Delores
07-28-2006, 04:58 PM
The woman is an animal! I will never ever be able to understand how she could have lifted her hand aganinst those boys.
Ps any updates on marybeth tinning?
any old post here on her?

beesy
07-28-2006, 08:02 PM
The woman is an animal! I will never ever be able to understand how she could have lifted her hand aganinst those boys.
Ps any updates on marybeth tinning?
any old post here on her? An animal would never do such a thing

beesy
07-28-2006, 08:07 PM
I believe she never in a million years thought they'd arrest what she considered to be an "upper middle class, young mother who just lost two children." I watched the news the night she was arrested and the look of shock on her face was absolute. Agreed, she expected to be believed no matter what the evidence showed. Not her fault it didn't fit her story, LE needs to solve it and make it fit. The woman who had her husband murdered, Pam, and I can't remember her last name, said the same thing "I'm not a criminal. I wouldn't even hurt an animal". BAH

southcitymom
07-28-2006, 09:49 PM
Their house was directly across the lake from mine, less than a five minute drive. My two youngest kids were 3 and 5 years old at that time. I was pretty stressed out about the whole thing, as were all of the other parents that I knew.
WOW! I can't imagine how scary that must have been.

Peter Hamilton
07-28-2006, 10:11 PM
Southcitymom,the infamous Diana Downs had the exact same creepy laughter the day after she was arrested for shooting her three kids,killing two and paralyzing the other---She was describing,on tape,what happened--It was the sickest thing I ever saw,ranking up there with Darlie's actions---I read books on both of these cases,always believed in her guilt--her self-inflicted injuries was a ploy used by many killers,including Charles Stuart in Boston who shot his pregnant wife to death in a car,then shot imself in the side,and Dr. Jeffrey McDonald who killed his kids and wife,and then injured himself superficially---Darlie's self-inflicted wounds were noteworthy only in the fact that they were more severe than most

southcitymom
07-28-2006, 10:53 PM
Southcitymom,the infamous Diana Downs had the exact same creepy laughter the day after she was arrested for shooting her three kids,killing two and paralyzing the other---She was describing,on tape,what happened--It was the sickest thing I ever saw,ranking up there with Darlie's actions---I read books on both of these cases,always believed in her guilt--her self-inflicted injuries was a ploy used by many killers,including Charles Stuart in Boston who shot his pregnant wife to death in a car,then shot imself in the side,and Dr. Jeffrey McDonald who killed his kids and wife,and then injured himself superficially---Darlie's self-inflicted wounds were noteworthy only in the fact that they were more severe than most
I have often thought that the similarities b/w Darlie and Diana Downs are uncanny. I have only read about the Downs case - I have never heard her say anything.

I will say that McDonald's and Stuart's self-inflicted wounds don't strike me as nearly as dramatic as Darlie's. Cutting your own throat ( even though she was in no danger of dying from that injury) is pretty intense.

Delores
07-29-2006, 12:28 PM
An animal would never do such a thingYou're right Beesy! even wild animals protect and love thier babies

Delores
07-29-2006, 12:32 PM
Agreed, she expected to be believed no matter what the evidence showed. Not her fault it didn't fit her story, LE needs to solve it and make it fit. The woman who had her husband murdered, Pam, and I can't remember her last name, said the same thing "I'm not a criminal. I wouldn't even hurt an animal". BAHpamula smart had those boys murder her poor husband, he even begged them NOT to take his wedding ring:furious: :eek: the poor guy , that really made me sad for him.

beesy
07-29-2006, 12:46 PM
I have often thought that the similarities b/w Darlie and Diana Downs are uncanny. I have only read about the Downs case - I have never heard her say anything.

I will say that McDonald's and Stuart's self-inflicted wounds don't strike me as nearly as dramatic as Darlie's. Cutting your own throat ( even though she was in no danger of dying from that injury) is pretty intense. Darlie had the choice of stabbing herself in the gut or chest or cutting her throat. The throat was easier to control. Mac was a doc so he knew how to collapse his lung. His injury wasn't really that superficial because his lung was beginning to collapse, but compared to Colette and the girls, his wounds were zilch. Downs shot herself in the arm. Shooting yourself anywhere is pretty darn scary and it shows her determination to get rid of her children. IMO

beesy
07-29-2006, 12:48 PM
pamula smart had those boys murder her poor husband, he even begged them NOT to take his wedding ring:furious: :eek: the poor guy , that really made me sad for him. Didn't he(Greg?) also say something to the effect of don't get blood on the carpet, my wife will kill me?

Mary456
07-29-2006, 08:32 PM
Didn't he(Greg?) also say something to the effect of don't get blood on the carpet, my wife will kill me?

OMG, you crack me up, beesy! :laugh:

BeeBee
07-29-2006, 08:44 PM
I watched that too!!! I couldn't believe the last woman they talked about who murdered her two daughters so viciously. That is a woman with no soul! I had hoped too, that they would talk about Darlie's case. I think what she did is worse than Susan Smith any day of the week and twice on Sundays.


Jeana, I watch so many of those shows. Was that the one that had the Nore woman who burned one daughter alive and then shot another and then after removing the bullet, put her in a closet to starve to death? If so, do you remember her first name? She was evil now. As evil as they come.

Come to think of it, it might have been that new show about evil people.

ETA. As far as Darlie. I just never understood how she got those horrific bruises all over her arms. They were almost black they were so bruised and I know she could not have done that herself.

southcitymom
07-29-2006, 09:47 PM
Jeana, I watch so many of those shows. Was that the one that had the Nore woman who burned one daughter alive and then shot another and then after removing the bullet, put her in a closet to starve to death? If so, do you remember her first name? She was evil now. As evil as they come.

Come to think of it, it might have been that new show about evil people.

ETA. As far as Darlie. I just never understood how she got those horrific bruises all over her arms. They were almost black they were so bruised and I know she could not have done that herself.
Yes the show's last profile was about Teresa Cross Knorr who murdered her daughters so torturously. Here's a good link about that cae: http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/family/theresa_cross/index.html

I've often thought that Darlie bruised her arms by slamming them in a door - that could do it, I think. Of course, she may well have had help from Darrin.

beesy
07-29-2006, 09:50 PM
OMG, you crack me up, beesy! :laugh: Oh no! Am I spreading falsehoods again? It was in the form of a question, so I'm in the clear.
Remember the "the based on" movie with Nicole Kidman? One of her lover's comrades told detectives that his(lover's) brain was the size of his manhood. hee hee...and the killer/her lover took it as a compliment! You know..cause he was thinking his ahem was the size of his brain as opposed to his brain being the size of his ahem. http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_1_72.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZS)

beesy
07-29-2006, 09:59 PM
As far as Darlie. I just never understood how she got those horrific bruises all over her arms. They were almost black they were so bruised and I know she could not have done that herself. well, hello BeeBee, 2 of a kind are we?
ah, the bruises, experts agree they are the result of blunt force trauma. I think so too and fists are considered BFT. She could have hit every single spot on her arms with her fists. You can practice on yourself. It works. Just punch away http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_2_108.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZS)

BeeBee
07-29-2006, 10:39 PM
well, hello BeeBee, 2 of a kind are we?
ah, the bruises, experts agree they are the result of blunt force trauma. I think so too and fists are considered BFT. She could have hit every single spot on her arms with her fists. You can practice on yourself. It works. Just punch away http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_2_108.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZS)

Two of a kind? we very well could bee, lol.

I never heard it said the bruises were the result of blunt force trama. But, I didn't really follow the case as well as some. But, even hitting yourself with your fists, it seems would leave bruises that were different, you know? Not a solid blackness that covered most of the arm. It seems depending on how you hit with a fist it would leave a dark spot here and a darker spot there and at some points, whiteness in between where she wasn't hit. I just don't think it happened with a fist. But, I can't come up with anything that would leave the type of bruising she had.

beesy
07-29-2006, 11:09 PM
Two of a kind? we very well could bee, lol.

I never heard it said the bruises were the result of blunt force trama. But, I didn't really follow the case as well as some. But, even hitting yourself with your fists, it seems would leave bruises that were different, you know? Not a solid blackness that covered most of the arm. It seems depending on how you hit with a fist it would leave a dark spot here and a darker spot there and at some points, whiteness in between where she wasn't hit. I just don't think it happened with a fist. But, I can't come up with anything that would leave the type of bruising she had. Expert witnesses at the trial, which can be found in the transcripts, stated the bruises to be BFT. The only other thing it could be is settling blood, but that was ruled out. Ask Mary about that. She beat that into my head one night. Although when you first look at the bruises, they seem like one entire bruise, they really aren't. You can see differing colors here and there. It's only my opinion that they were caused by her fists, but it is possible. All she had to do was pound in the same place a few times, then move on. She wouldn't have wanted them to look like fist marks because she doesn't say anthing about being hit in the arms. It would have taken alot of force to get them that dark, IMO, and that is possible to do with your fists. I've heard some people say maybe she slammed her arms on the counter or something, but I have trouble seeing how you could get enough momentum to cause the really black ones and a counter could have left marks as well. :twocents:
I cannot remember the case, but yet another husband killed his wife and tried to make it seem like an intruder attacked both of them by slamming his shoulder in the door, then actually diving down the staircase! He didn't get away with it, although he did have some bad boo-boos.

StellaTravers
07-30-2006, 11:38 AM
But, even hitting yourself with your fists, it seems would leave bruises that were different, you know? Not a solid blackness that covered most of the arm. It seems depending on how you hit with a fist it would leave a dark spot here and a darker spot there and at some points, whiteness in between where she wasn't hit. I just don't think it happened with a fist. But, I can't come up with anything that would leave the type of bruising she had.
I noticed that about the bruises. I kept trying to look for some sort of pattern in the bruises. It never made sense to me how the bruises would have gotten there in an attack, anyway. If she had been hitting away at someone in self-defense, wouldn't they have been stabbing at her and creating more wounds? Not to mention this would have been more of an actual struggle creating evidence of that struggle. Yet she wakes up on the couch with scarcely a thing out of place. I read the theory once that the bruises were caused by someone putting pressure on her arms as she was held down but that doesn't equate to blunt force trauma and imo it wouldn't have caused that type of injury.

sharkeyes
07-30-2006, 04:14 PM
I noticed that about the bruises. I kept trying to look for some sort of pattern in the bruises. It never made sense to me how the bruises would have gotten there in an attack, anyway. If she had been hitting away at someone in self-defense, wouldn't they have been stabbing at her and creating more wounds? Not to mention this would have been more of an actual struggle creating evidence of that struggle. Yet she wakes up on the couch with scarcely a thing out of place. I read the theory once that the bruises were caused by someone putting pressure on her arms as she was held down but that doesn't equate to blunt force trauma and imo it wouldn't have caused that type of injury.
I had concluded that Darlie got the bruises while stabbing the boys - slamming her arm down and having to hold them down until they were too weak to fight back - but after I reviewed the photos, I now think she had to have slammed her arms against something or inside something - there are photos in MTJD that show what look like "pinch marks" within the bruise - like the edge of a door or counter or belt - it drives me crazy! I've tried to recall if I've ever seen bruises like that before - and I haven't (at least not THAT massive), but my husband did suffer a crush injury while at work that resulted in a bruise that looked a lot like Darlie's, but it wasn't nearly as large; and I was left with a nasty "seatbelt bruise" after a car accident that looked just like the bruise under her arm, but again, not as massive, you could see the definite 'belt' mark that it left - and it did not show up until the day after the accident and got worse over 2 days before it began to fade to that blue, green, yellow pattern. I would not put it past her to have slammed her arms onto a hard surface or in a door - and I believe Darin could have helped her.

beesy
07-30-2006, 05:21 PM
I had concluded that Darlie got the bruises while stabbing the boys - slamming her arm down and having to hold them down until they were too weak to fight back - but after I reviewed the photos, I now think she had to have slammed her arms against something or inside something - there are photos in MTJD that show what look like "pinch marks" within the bruise - like the edge of a door or counter or belt - it drives me crazy! I've tried to recall if I've ever seen bruises like that before - and I haven't (at least not THAT massive), but my husband did suffer a crush injury while at work that resulted in a bruise that looked a lot like Darlie's, but it wasn't nearly as large; and I was left with a nasty "seatbelt bruise" after a car accident that looked just like the bruise under her arm, but again, not as massive, you could see the definite 'belt' mark that it left - and it did not show up until the day after the accident and got worse over 2 days before it began to fade to that blue, green, yellow pattern. I would not put it past her to have slammed her arms onto a hard surface or in a door - and I believe Darin could have helped her. The bruises are definitely BFT. I used to think she slammed them in a door, but then I realized uh duh bees....both sides of her arms would be bruised. I just can't see how you could get up enough momentum to slam your arms onto the counter or a table, etc hard enough to bruise them like that. And if she slammed them on something, it'd be hard to get the bruises way up under her arms. But you can get up enough momentum if you use your fists and a fist can fit into all of the places she is bruised.. So right now, I'm going with fists. Of course, for a long time, I thought the door, then blood settling, then some freak medical thing, now fists. I'll probably decide they are from something else within the next few months, but I am positive that they are from BFT and that they were inflicted by herself or by Darin with her permission.

beesy
07-30-2006, 06:16 PM
6 Q. Do you see her right arm there and the
7 bruising on her right arm?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. What type of injury is that? What's
10 that called?
11 A. That's what we would term medically a
12 hematoma. It's a large bruise.
13 Q. Okay. And how are those caused? In
14 particular, that type of bruise?
15 A. This type of bruising, if I just saw
16 it, I would think that it was caused by a very heavy
17 blunt injury.
18 Q. Okay. And explain to the jury what a
19 blunt injury is.
20 A. We say blunt, as in not something
21 sharp, striking your hand against a door, being in a car
22 wreck and hitting the steering wheel, something in that
23 nature.
24 Q. Is that pretty severe blunt trauma?
25 A. This is a fairly severe blunt trauma,
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
868
1 yes.
2 Q. Okay.
3 A. This is something that we -- if I saw
4 it on somebody's arm I would probably want to x-ray their
5 arm.
6 Q. Okay. At any time during your
7 examination of Darlie Routier, did you ever see that type
8 of injury to her right arm?
9 A. No.
10 Q. Okay. And is that something that you
11 look for in your examination of her?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Okay. Any time on the 6th, did you
14 see any evidence of that type of injury to her right arm?
15 A. None at all.
16 Q. The 7th?
17 A. No.
18 Q. The 8th?
19 A. No.
20 Q. Okay. Now, if that injury, that blunt
21 trauma, had occurred on June 6th, about 2:30 in the
22 morning, 1996, would you have seen evidence of that
23 injury on her right arm, Doctor?
24 A. In my opinion, yes. This is a lot of
25 blood, yes.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
869

1 Q. Okay. You saw no evidence of that
2 injury whatsoever?
3 A. No.
4 Q. Okay. That's not something that would
5 be caused by an IV or anything, would it?
6 A. No. I've never seen such a severe
7 hematoma caused by an intravenous line.
http://www.justicefordarlie.net/transcripts/volumes/vol-31.php#1

I'm getting from this that BFT has to come from hitting or being hit with something which does not have a sharp edge. HITTING or HIT being the key words here. Not a crush, or any sort of compression injury, but impact.

BeeBee
07-31-2006, 01:13 AM
Ok, so are they saying that during her hospital stay she didn't have the bruises on her arms? The bruises were shown while she was in the hospital, right? But, they're saying for the first few days they weren't there? Am I getting this right? :waitasec:

beesy
07-31-2006, 01:34 AM
Ok, so are they saying that during her hospital stay she didn't have the bruises on her arms? The bruises were shown while she was in the hospital, right? But, they're saying for the first few days they weren't there? Am I getting this right? :waitasec: No bruises at the hospital at all. I think it was Forsch who told her he noticed she didn't have any defense type wounds, but somehow she had them for the police photos. The implication is that she got/caused the bruises several days after the attacks.
In most of Darlie's stories, she never says she fought with the intruder, never offers any explanation for the bruises. In fact debated the portion of the 911 call which was transcribed as Darlie saying "fightin'". She claims she said "frightenin'" She just shows the bruises and we're supposed to assume they are the result of a fight with said intruder. I don't see how it would be possible to be hit with something hard enough to cause those bruises and not remember it happening

BeeBee
07-31-2006, 02:22 AM
So, would it be possible for her to slam her arms on the bedrails at the hospital? During the day hospitals can be very noisy. Having the bedrails up, I suppose she could have slammed her arms on them hard enough to make bruises appear in the later days of her hospital stay. I think bedrails could do the job and make her arms look like they did if slammed hard enough.

cami
07-31-2006, 11:15 AM
I watched it three - and yes, that last woman was some kind of monster. Darlie wouldn't rate as high as the Knorr woman because she did not torture her children longterm.

Oh Lord was that that Theresa Knorr who murdered two of her daughters and forced her sons to help her dispose of their bodies? They did her case on Aande. Her third daughter finally turned her in wasn't it? What a monster she was.

cami
07-31-2006, 11:19 AM
pamula smart had those boys murder her poor husband, he even begged them NOT to take his wedding ring:furious: :eek: the poor guy , that really made me sad for him.

A narcissist if ever I've seen one...Pam Smart. Listen to her on any documentaries she appears on...like MSNBC...it's all me, me, me, I, I, I....what an evil witch.

Delores
07-31-2006, 03:13 PM
A narcissist if ever I've seen one...Pam Smart. Listen to her on any documentaries she appears on...like MSNBC...it's all me, me, me, I, I, I....what an evil witch.evil witch is Too Polite a word for pam smart

BeeBee
07-31-2006, 10:26 PM
Oh Lord was that that Theresa Knorr who murdered two of her daughters and forced her sons to help her dispose of their bodies? They did her case on Aande. Her third daughter finally turned her in wasn't it? What a monster she was.

Theresa Norr was one of the most evil women on this earth. She had no conscience, she treated her daughters like animals. Hell, she probably treated animals better. Her sons were who she loved. She burned the first daughter ALIVE. She made them eat macaroni and cheese mixed with lard until they could eat no more then if they vomited, they had to eat that. It took years for this to come out and someone to believe the last surviving daughter but I'm so glad she was finally caught. I hope she suffers in prison. Or someone kills her.

beesy
08-03-2006, 01:49 AM
So, would it be possible for her to slam her arms on the bedrails at the hospital? During the day hospitals can be very noisy. Having the bedrails up, I suppose she could have slammed her arms on them hard enough to make bruises appear in the later days of her hospital stay. I think bedrails could do the job and make her arms look like they did if slammed hard enough. No bruises were seen by anyone at the hospital during her stay or upon her release. If you are talking about seeing something on her arms in the pix from the hospital, that is dried blood I think or either it's not there because they've messed with the pix so much. Darlie is nearly pink in them.
Are you getting confused about the pix taken at the police station and thinking that was the hospital? The photos in which she is standing up and displaying the arm bruises were taken several days AFTER her release from the hospital. They just appeared and that's why they are suspicious. Especially when they were caused by BFT and even today she has no memory of being hit with anything that would cause them.
Bed rails sound as good as any other thing, but I think she did it at home.

beesy
08-03-2006, 01:49 AM
So, would it be possible for her to slam her arms on the bedrails at the hospital? During the day hospitals can be very noisy. Having the bedrails up, I suppose she could have slammed her arms on them hard enough to make bruises appear in the later days of her hospital stay. I think bedrails could do the job and make her arms look like they did if slammed hard enough. No bruises were seen by anyone at the hospital during her stay or upon her release. If you are talking about seeing something on her arms in the pix from the hospital, that is dried blood I think or either it's not there because they've messed with the pix so much. Darlie is nearly pink in them.
Are you getting confused about the pix taken at the police station and thinking that was the hospital? The photos in which she is standing up and displaying the arm bruises were taken several days AFTER her release from the hospital. They just appeared and that's why they are suspicious. Especially when they were caused by BFT and even today she has no memory of being hit with anything that would cause them.
Bed rails sound as good as any other thing, but I think she did it at home.

beesy
08-03-2006, 01:49 AM
So, would it be possible for her to slam her arms on the bedrails at the hospital? During the day hospitals can be very noisy. Having the bedrails up, I suppose she could have slammed her arms on them hard enough to make bruises appear in the later days of her hospital stay. I think bedrails could do the job and make her arms look like they did if slammed hard enough. No bruises were seen by anyone at the hospital during her stay or upon her release. If you are talking about seeing something on her arms in the pix from the hospital, that is dried blood I think or either it's not there because they've messed with the pix so much. Darlie is nearly pink in them.
Are you getting confused about the pix taken at the police station and thinking that was the hospital? The photos in which she is standing up and displaying the arm bruises were taken several days AFTER her release from the hospital. They just appeared and that's why they are suspicious. Especially when they were caused by BFT and even today she has no memory of being hit with anything that would cause them.
Bed rails sound as good as any other thing, but I think she did it at home.

kcksum
08-10-2006, 03:37 PM
I have stated this before on the pink board back when I w3as an every day poster (was kcjones) but I think the bruises are hematomas from infiltrated IV's and from settled blood from the stab and neck wounds.
I have seen (I am a veteran ER nurse of 7 yrs) bruises that big and black from badly infiltratd IV's many times. I have also seen amazingly strange blood settling from wounds that bled under the skin. The way darlie moved around after cutting herself could have caused blood to bleed into surrounding tissues in weird ways. There is no limit to haw far blood can settle and leave horrendous looking hematomas. After Jaw surgery, I had a large blood clot in my face, it rupturede while I was sleeping without me knwoing it, I had blood outward, but most of it seeped into surrounding tissues. I kid you not when I say that I had a coaster sized hematoma over my bellybutton in about 2 days. When i asked the doc he said, "oh that's from the blood in your face, it just settled." It was black as pitch and too forever to go away. How many of you have had blood drawn, and ended up w a huge black bruise a bit further down from the puncture a couple days later?
I would not have put it past Darlie to have injured her arms at a later date, but I have always thought most of those hematomas were settled blood from the neck wound and the arm wound.

cami
08-10-2006, 05:34 PM
I have stated this before on the pink board back when I w3as an every day poster (was kcjones) but I think the bruises are hematomas from infiltrated IV's and from settled blood from the stab and neck wounds.
I have seen (I am a veteran ER nurse of 7 yrs) bruises that big and black from badly infiltratd IV's many times. I have also seen amazingly strange blood settling from wounds that bled under the skin. The way darlie moved around after cutting herself could have caused blood to bleed into surrounding tissues in weird ways. There is no limit to haw far blood can settle and leave horrendous looking hematomas. After Jaw surgery, I had a large blood clot in my face, it rupturede while I was sleeping without me knwoing it, I had blood outward, but most of it seeped into surrounding tissues. I kid you not when I say that I had a coaster sized hematoma over my bellybutton in about 2 days. When i asked the doc he said, "oh that's from the blood in your face, it just settled." It was black as pitch and too forever to go away. How many of you have had blood drawn, and ended up w a huge black bruise a bit further down from the puncture a couple days later?
I would not have put it past Darlie to have injured her arms at a later date, but I have always thought most of those hematomas were settled blood from the neck wound and the arm wound.

I knew that was you...it's me fugi your old MacDonald nemisis from Mary's board...welcome aboard. You've been away for so long. How's the health? and your husband and kids?

Well you know that I have always thought those bruises were from blood settling. There's no weapon pattern discernable in them at all and they go right up to the armpit...not only that but when you hit bone it causes a bruise too doesn't it? The knife went to the bone in her forearm and while it didn't cause a fracture, it may have bruised it????

beesy
08-10-2006, 06:01 PM
I have stated this before on the pink board back when I w3as an every day poster (was kcjones) but I think the bruises are hematomas from infiltrated IV's and from settled blood from the stab and neck wounds.
I have seen (I am a veteran ER nurse of 7 yrs) bruises that big and black from badly infiltratd IV's many times. I have also seen amazingly strange blood settling from wounds that bled under the skin. The way darlie moved around after cutting herself could have caused blood to bleed into surrounding tissues in weird ways. There is no limit to haw far blood can settle and leave horrendous looking hematomas. After Jaw surgery, I had a large blood clot in my face, it rupturede while I was sleeping without me knwoing it, I had blood outward, but most of it seeped into surrounding tissues. I kid you not when I say that I had a coaster sized hematoma over my bellybutton in about 2 days. When i asked the doc he said, "oh that's from the blood in your face, it just settled." It was black as pitch and too forever to go away. How many of you have had blood drawn, and ended up w a huge black bruise a bit further down from the puncture a couple days later?
I would not have put it past Darlie to have injured her arms at a later date, but I have always thought most of those hematomas were settled blood from the neck wound and the arm wound. I bruise very easily too and for a long time I thought those bruises were caused by settling blood and needle punctures. When my cat was spade, she developed a huge purple/black hematoma on her belly. She nearly died from internal bleeding. But considering at least 2 different experts testified that it was NOT settled blood, but a contact wound, casued by BFT, I going with that. They actually saw the bruises in person and these days pictures can lie. Plus, Mary beat it into my head in a flurry of posts on GAC.

beesy
08-10-2006, 06:03 PM
No bruises were seen by anyone at the hospital during her stay or upon her release. If you are talking about seeing something on her arms in the pix from the hospital, that is dried blood I think or either it's not there because they've messed with the pix so much. Darlie is nearly pink in them.
Are you getting confused about the pix taken at the police station and thinking that was the hospital? The photos in which she is standing up and displaying the arm bruises were taken several days AFTER her release from the hospital. They just appeared and that's why they are suspicious. Especially when they were caused by BFT and even today she has no memory of being hit with anything that would cause them.
Bed rails sound as good as any other thing, but I think she did it at home. Why did I post this 3 times? And why hasn't our fearless leader deleted 2 of them? http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_12_10.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZS)

beesy
08-10-2006, 06:09 PM
I knew that was you...it's me fugi your old MacDonald nemisis from Mary's board...welcome aboard. You've been away for so long. How's the health? and your husband and kids?

Well you know that I have always thought those bruises were from blood settling. There's no weapon pattern discernable in them at all and they go right up to the armpit...not only that but when you hit bone it causes a bruise too doesn't it? The knife went to the bone in her forearm and while it didn't cause a fracture, it may have bruised it???? Your own fist can easily reach every area of her arms that was bruised. It's also possible to cause those bruises without your fists and not leave any discernible pattern. If you really study the bruises, they are separate bruises, with varying shades. http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_2_108.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZS)

cami
08-11-2006, 08:08 AM
Your own fist can easily reach every area of her arms that was bruised. It's also possible to cause those bruises without your fists and not leave any discernible pattern. If you really study the bruises, they are separate bruises, with varying shades. http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_2_108.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZS)

True...I guess I should look a little more closely...I know the doctors said they were bft but they too were working from photos--they never saw Darlie's bruises...What trial transcript should I read? Who?

beesy
08-11-2006, 06:32 PM
True...I guess I should look a little more closely...I know the doctors said they were bft but they too were working from photos--they never saw Darlie's bruises...What trial transcript should I read? Who? This is all I've found for now:

My post #56 and http://www.justicefordarlie.net/transcripts/volumes/vol-31.php#1 (http://www.justicefordarlie.net/transcripts/volumes/vol-31.php#1)


DR. JANIS TOWNSEND-PARCHMAN, who checked Darlie's injuries in the hospital and saw no bruises. http://www.justicefordarlie.net/transcripts/volumes/vol-28.php#4 (http://www.justicefordarlie.net/transcripts/volumes/vol-28.php#4)

I don't think the pictures started lying until they ended up on Darlie's site and in Chris' book. I'm only saying keep in mind the source of the photos we are seeing as compared to the ones they saw.

beesy
08-11-2006, 06:34 PM
Your own fist can easily reach every area of her arms that was bruised. It's also possible to cause those bruises without your fists and not leave any discernible pattern. . http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_2_108.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZS) I meant WITH your fists

cami
08-14-2006, 09:09 AM
This is all I've found for now:

My post #56 and http://www.justicefordarlie.net/transcripts/volumes/vol-31.php#1 (http://www.justicefordarlie.net/transcripts/volumes/vol-31.php#1)


DR. JANIS TOWNSEND-PARCHMAN, who checked Darlie's injuries in the hospital and saw no bruises. http://www.justicefordarlie.net/transcripts/volumes/vol-28.php#4 (http://www.justicefordarlie.net/transcripts/volumes/vol-28.php#4)

I don't think the pictures started lying until they ended up on Darlie's site and in Chris' book. I'm only saying keep in mind the source of the photos we are seeing as compared to the ones they saw.

Yeah I am looking at MTJD, but I can't make much out of them...and I don't have any medical training. Regardless, she didn't get them from an intruder that's all I care about....I still think it's blood settling..some of it, not all.aaaahahahahahahaha one tracked mind...but then again....more later

sharkeyes
08-14-2006, 04:32 PM
... she didn't get them from an intruder...
I agree.

Jeana (DP)
08-15-2006, 09:07 AM
Sorry but there is no way...there are so many marks and abrasions and knife cuts indicating to me she was holding up her arms to someone. I know this may be an ANTI site but I need to point out that there is no way you could do this to yourself. I am not completely convinced of her innocense but these to me are too much to argue.....apologize if I am offensive here but looking for answers here like everyone else and so much does not add up with this case. :confused:


I don't know what you mean by "anti." We're "anti kill your children in their sleep." But as far as opinions go, as long as you can post your's within the guidelines of the forum, you're welcome to!!!

cami
08-15-2006, 10:53 AM
Sorry but there is no way...there are so many marks and abrasions and knife cuts indicating to me she was holding up her arms to someone. I know this may be an ANTI site but I need to point out that there is no way you could do this to yourself. I am not completely convinced of her innocense but these to me are too much to argue.....apologize if I am offensive here but looking for answers here like everyone else and so much does not add up with this case. :confused:

They do look awful but why do you think there is no way she could have created those injuries on herself? Just curious.

She had one small incised wound to her forearm, the cut neck and shoulder...slashing marks...non life threatening. All the doctors who treated her judged those wounds serious but non life threatening and superficial as opposed to the boys deep, penetrating wounds.

justice2
08-15-2006, 12:12 PM
Sorry but there is no way...there are so many marks and abrasions and knife cuts indicating to me she was holding up her arms to someone. I know this may be an ANTI site but I need to point out that there is no way you could do this to yourself. I am not completely convinced of her innocense but these to me are too much to argue.....apologize if I am offensive here but looking for answers here like everyone else and so much does not add up with this case. :confused:Not having really good pictures to go by ... yes I've noticed that also. But they are all small so that doesn't really explain it either. I think the medical examiner stated that the type of defensive wounds would be slashes and more on the hands, but don't quote me on that. That's in the trial transcripts.

I have "trouble" with that and the bruises. The darkest bruises (again no good pictures to go by) seem to be in the inside bend of the elbow, which would be protected if she had held her arms up in self defense.

I personally don't think we even begin to know what went on in that house that night. We've all speculated out the wazoo and can't make things fit (IMO). But the blood cast-off puts Darlie there, can't get away from that.

So I welcome any ideas.

silentrose
08-15-2006, 09:56 PM
Jeana...I was not implying that you all are for killing children. I meant anti as in this appears to be a site that is against her innocence. Nothing more. I never meant to offend you or anyone. Bad choice of words.

kcksum
08-16-2006, 02:35 PM
I knew that was you...it's me fugi your old MacDonald nemisis from Mary's board...welcome aboard. You've been away for so long. How's the health? and your husband and kids?

Well you know that I have always thought those bruises were from blood settling. There's no weapon pattern discernable in them at all and they go right up to the armpit...not only that but when you hit bone it causes a bruise too doesn't it? The knife went to the bone in her forearm and while it didn't cause a fracture, it may have bruised it????

hey Cami Fugi (lol)

I am good, I am now an anti McDonald by the way....your words encouraged me to dig deeper and once I did there was no way I could see him as not guilty. The autopsy and crime scene photo's alone were enough for me....same w Darlie.

My health is great, the kids are doing ok, and we are still all healing from the home invasion. It has been two years but it is taking a long time and lots of therapy for my kids to get better. We received another letter from one of the defendants families just 2 weeks ago(they are pleading with us to write a letter to the judge to ask for a reduced sentence) so now we have to worry about the fact that this family won't stop contacting us when we have repeatedly asked them not to write us. It seems like just as we start getting better, something happens to open old wounds. Violent crime affects people so much longer than anyone can ever imagine. I had stayed away from the boards for a while because talking about any crime was screwing me up. I sort of became obsessed and was so over protective of my children that I had to step back until I was a bit healthier. I have to be careful that I don't over stimulate my mind with it. I choose to follow the old cases I always have and that's about it. Glad to see some familiar faces on the board from the old pink site.

Sorry for getting off topic here, just wanted to respond to Cami's questions.
Kcksum(kcjones):p

justice2
08-16-2006, 03:10 PM
I have to ask, what's the old pink site?


Speaking of old sites. Has anyone kept an archives of the Routier stuff from 2-5 years ago? and would be willing to share?

curious1
08-16-2006, 03:25 PM
Wow KCKSUM. Anyway you can get a restraining order or an order not to contact you on the family members?

Jeana (DP)
08-16-2006, 04:42 PM
Jeana...I was not implying that you all are for killing children. I meant anti as in this appears to be a site that is against her innocence. Nothing more. I never meant to offend you or anyone. Bad choice of words.


No problem!! We're honestly not "anti-Darlie." We just feel that she's guilty.

Mary456
08-16-2006, 10:57 PM
I have stated this before on the pink board back when I w3as an every day poster (was kcjones) but I think the bruises are hematomas from infiltrated IV's and from settled blood from the stab and neck wounds.

Hey, I remember you, kcjones. Now you're Kcksuma--. Cool!

Here's the thing...Darlie's big, purple bruises were on her right arm, but she didn't have any IVs in her right arm. She had an IV in the crook of her left elbow and an arterial monitor in her left wrist. The small bruise on her left wrist was already yellow/green on 6/10 when she was photographed at the police station. That color was consistent with the tiny tube (arterial monitor) being inserted on June 6th.

So the bruising on her right arm wasn't from IVs, and the shallow incised wound on the outside of her right arm (less than an inch deep) couldn't possibly cause the massive bruising on the inside, almost up to her armpit. Blood settling from her neck wound? Not likely, and even if it was, why would it all settle in her right arm?

Oops, there I go again, rambling like a rabid prosecutor. Sorry, Kc. How have you been? We sure had a lot of fun, didn't we!

justice2
08-16-2006, 11:33 PM
[QUOTE=Mary456]
So the bruising on her right arm wasn't from IVs, and the shallow incised wound on the outside of her right arm (less than an inch deep) couldn't possibly cause the massive bruising on the inside, almost up to her armpit. Blood settling from her neck wound? Not likely, and even if it was, why would it all settle in her right arm?
[QUOTE]

You're saying she had more bruises on her right arm than her left? I don't have good pictures to look at.

The neck wound is more to the right than left. The left side looks to be more on her collar bone. I don't understand blood settling but I would think she would have bleed more on the right than left.

Is blood settling from an open wound or from a closed wound? I would think it would have to be from a close wound that broke a blood vessel.

I understand cast-off blood, but bruising and blood settling, not so much. Any help is appreciated.

cami
08-17-2006, 08:34 AM
I have to ask, what's the old pink site?


Speaking of old sites. Has anyone kept an archives of the Routier stuff from 2-5 years ago? and would be willing to share?

The pink site was Mary and Savannah's old Darlie board. What are you looking for Justice...I don't know if I have anything but Mary might.

justice2
08-17-2006, 11:16 AM
The pink site was Mary and Savannah's old Darlie board. What are you looking for Justice...I don't know if I have anything but Mary might.Nothing in particular. I just know the amount of information on the web then must have been a 10-50 times greater than now.

kcksum
08-17-2006, 03:42 PM
Hey, I remember you, kcjones. Now you're Kcksuma--. Cool!

Here's the thing...Darlie's big, purple bruises were on her right arm, but she didn't have any IVs in her right arm. She had an IV in the crook of her left elbow and an arterial monitor in her left wrist. The small bruise on her left wrist was already yellow/green on 6/10 when she was photographed at the police station. That color was consistent with the tiny tube (arterial monitor) being inserted on June 6th.

So the bruising on her right arm wasn't from IVs, and the shallow incised wound on the outside of her right arm (less than an inch deep) couldn't possibly cause the massive bruising on the inside, almost up to her armpit. Blood settling from her neck wound? Not likely, and even if it was, why would it all settle in her right arm?
Oops, there I go again, rambling like a rabid prosecutor. Sorry, Kc. How have you been? We sure had a lot of fun, didn't we!


why yes Mary we did have a great time!!!Anyone know what ever happened to Jeffy and The Detective? I used to get more enjoyment out of reading their posts than just about anything.

I hear what your saying about the bruises, I wouldn't say the blood from the neck wound couldn't seep into the right arm, it would depend on how she moved, layed in bed at the hospital, and what position her body was in after the injury. You're right, its unlikely, but it was unlikely for me to get a hematoma in my stomach after face surgery but it happened. I got one in my stomach and that was with me lying down in bed. She was running all over the place and staging a crime scene after cutting her neck. I also believe some of those wounds are defense wounds from the boys kicking the crap out of her. I also wouldn't put it past her to have done some self inflicting work after the fact as wll. Either way, I have alwyas felt her bruises were tiny compared to the gaping thru and thru holes she left in the torso's of her boys.
Those were serious wounds, not hers. Kinda like Mac the knifes abrasions and scratches compared to Kritin's head being caved in and kimberly's slit throat.

Mary456
08-17-2006, 09:05 PM
[QUOTE=justice2]You're saying she had more bruises on her right arm than her left? I don't have good pictures to look at.[QUOTE]

No, I'm not saying she had more bruises on her right arm than her left. It's in the sworn testimony from Darlie's trial, which can be found in the transcript. Much better source than the photos, imo.


[QUOTE=justice2] I don't understand blood settling but I would think she would have bleed more on the right than left.[QUOTE]

The "blood settling" issue originated on the message boards, from someone's personal experience, I believe. But it played no part in Darlie's trial. Not a single doctor or nurse testified that the bruises could be the result of blood settling from her neck wound.