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itsreenw
07-03-2006, 01:56 AM
If you are new to the Rose Cole threads, welcome aboard!! You may want to review the 1st thread to familiarize yourself with the case and parties involved.




Posted by IsabelaPR: Hi!!!

I am heading to MICHIGAN, be back Friday night (the latest). Will not have access to e-mails or Forum while there . . . Have a great Fourth of JULY!

I want to concentrate on 3 major things:
1. Library (Jesse Joseph Obituary)
2. Police Department (any records, try to open a missing person case)
3. Jesse Joseph's Will/letter notifications to kids
I was searching the Genessee County courts to see if there was any info about Rose anywhere. I didn't find anything on Rose but I forwarded some case info I found regarding Rose's father's will to her SIL.

It seems Rose's uncle, the executor, was required to send notification letters to the children regarding their dad's will. It is not clear from the info online what kids or addresses he sent notices to. It is doubtful there is an address for Rose but it wil be interesting to find out what status her uncle lists for her whereabouts.

It is a probability that he didn't follow proper procedures intentionally so more money would go in his own pocket.
I didn't delve too deeply as wills, etc are very personal matters and thought if the family wanted to post more they would.

Hopefully IsabelaPR will come home with some encouraging news.

MagicRose99
07-06-2006, 07:51 AM
Bump... :blushing:

itsreenw
07-06-2006, 04:21 PM
Is anyone familiar with will/probate terminology? It looks like Rose's uncle, Joseph Borich, executed the will in 1991 then in 1995 there was some sort of new discovery so the estate was reopened. I am curious to see if Rose is listed as one of the benificiaries. Jesse Joseph's brother may have knowledge of what happened to Rose. There is also something about the publication date. Hollow, can you look for the publication to see exactly what it says? The Flint Journal is the local newspaper. Here's what I found on Jesse Joseph Cole's court docs-#23-25 are logged out of orderon the website for some reason & the format appears a little different on the site but all the info is here:

CASE# 91134787JUDGE 18268DATE 5/20/1991NAME COLE,JESSE,JOSEPH OPTIONAL DATE 4/29/1991STATUS CCLOSED 5/20/1996ATTNY 11186 BREWERMICRO R-2253
NUM DESC QUALIFICATION DUE DATE PARTY ACTIVITY COURT ACTIVITY
SURETY AOT 5/20/1991 5/20/1991 CIP 3/05/1992 CIC 3/05/1992

1 IPT
JOSEPH BORICH ATTORNEY: BREWER
6511 MAPLEBROOK BLDG 16
FLINT MI 48507

2 IPT AOT 10/11/1995 10/11/1995 CIP 4/18/1996 CIC 5/20/1996
BORICH,JOSEPH, ATTORNEY: BREWER

39155 DOVETREE DRIVE
MURRIETA CA 92563
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------NUM CODE F/DATE SEQ H/DATE TIME MICROFILM# ATTNY DISP DATE JUDGE
1 LWT 5/20/1991 9011893 11186 18268 LAST WILL & TESTAMENT
2 COP 5/20/1991 9011896 11186 18268 PETITION FOR COMMENCEMENT OF PROCEEDINGS
3 TES 5/20/1991 9011898 11186 18268

TESTIMONY OF INTEREST PARTY 4 TSS 5/20/1991 9011900 11186

TESTIMONY SUPPLEMENTAL 5 RIO 5/20/1991 9011902 11186 18268
**I WISH WE COULD SEE WHAT HIS TESTIMONY SAID***


6 AOT 5/20/1991 9011903 11186 18268

REGISTERS ORDER/STATEMENTTESTATE
IPT ACCEPTANCE OF TRUST

7 LET 5/20/1991 .9011904 11186 18268

LETTERS OF AUTHORITY

8 CNI 5/20/1991 . 9011905 11186 18268

CLAIMS NOTICE INDEP PROBATE

9 NIP 5/20/1991 9011906 11186 18268

NOTICE OF APPOINTMENT AND DUTIES OF PERSONAL REP

10 AFP 5/24/1991 9022052 11186 18268

AFFIDAVIT OF PUBLICATION

11 PSV 5/28/1991 9030354 11186
PROOF OF SERVICE
12 PSV 6/05/1991 9041306 11186

PROOF OF SERVICE
13 PSV 11/21/1991 934 1962 111868

PROOF OF SERVICE

14 TAO 12/12/1991 9380786 11186 1268
INHERITANCE TAX ORDER (MDT C-6504)

15 RDS 1/07/1992 941 0556 11186 18268
RECEIPT OF DISTRIBUTIVE SHARE

16 TAR 1/07/1992 941 0557 11186 18268
TAX RECEIPTS COUNTY

17 CIP 1/08/1992 9411576 11186 18268I

PT CLOSING STATEMENT

18 RDS 1/08/1992 9411577 11186 18268
RECEIPT OF DISTRIBUTIVE SHARE

19 RDS 1/15/1992 943 0316 11186 18268
RECEIPT OF DISTRIBUTIVE SHARE

20 TAX 2/20/1992 950 0500 11186 18268
INHERITANCE TAX RECEIPT FILED STATE

21 CIP 3/05/1992 952 1100 11186 18268I
PT CLOSING STATEMENT

22 CIC 3/05/1992 952 1100 11186 18268
IPT CERTIFICATE OF COMPLETION

25 RIO 1/01/1995

REGISTERS ORDER/STATEMENT

23 PET 10/11/1995 11186 18268
PETITION TO RE-OPEN ESTATEAND ADD NEWLY DISCOVERED ASSET

24 ORD 10/11/1995 1225 1236 11186 18268
ORDER RE-OPENING ESTATE

26 AOT 10/11/1995 1225 1237 11186 18268
IPT ACCEPTANCE OF TRUST

27 LET 10/11/1995 1225 1239 11186 18268
LETTERS OF AUTHORITY

28 NFA 10/11/1995 1225 1240 11186 18268
NOTICE REGARDING ATTORNEY FEES

29 INV 10/11/1995 1225 1241 11186 18268
IPT INVENTORY FILED

30 TAO 2/27/1996 1256 0222 11186 18268
INHERITANCE TAX ORDER (MDT C-6504)SUPPLEMENTAL

31 TAX 4/08/1996 1265 1626 11186 18268
INHERITANCE TAX RECEIPT FILED STATE

32 CIP 4/18/1996 1268 0354 11186 18268I
PT CLOSING STATEMENT

33 CIC 5/20/1996 1274 0788 11186 18268
IPT CERTIFICATE OF COMPLETION

hoping4truth
07-06-2006, 06:27 PM
Itsreen, since Isabella is married to one of the children that should have been sent a letter, can't her husband ask for a copy of the information from the Lawyer (info is listed on the docs, right?)?

Also,
here is the link to the first Rose Cole thread: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37727

christine2448
07-06-2006, 08:12 PM
Ok...here, sorry itsreen, didn't even see a new thread started, 'bout time! Thanks.

itsreenw
07-07-2006, 02:04 AM
Itsreen, since Isabella is married to one of the children that should have been sent a letter, can't her husband ask for a copy of the information from the Lawyer (info is listed on the docs, right?)?

Also,
here is the link to the first Rose Cole thread: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37727(THIS INFO IS FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE ONLY FROM MY DIVORCE PROCEEDINGS IN CA!!! THIS IS NOT ABOUT THE WILL ITSELF, ONLY THE MATTER OF SERVICE OF COURT DOCUMENTS IN MY CASE)

I don't really know the laws on this but I would assume he had to attempt to notify all interested parties by mail if addresses were known, if not then a public notice may have been sufficient as proof of attempted service. Now again, I have no experience in probate/estate law or any other kind of law for that matter but I just went through a hell of a divorce and because my ex wouldn't accept the papers from the server, I had to serve him via public notice in a local newspaper.

Regarding Jesse Joseph's will, I saw an entry of a publication date so it's possible that's the route he took, knowing the children were no longer in the Flint area and would not see the notice in a Flint newspaper. From what I have been told, executors of wills often give $1 to the interested parties so they have proof that all parties were included in the will and SOMETHING was left to them

What I want to see is who he had listed as interested parties and if Rose was included in the will as a surviving child.

To answer the question you asked, if the lawyer isn't willing to give a copy, they can certainly request a copy from the court. Isabella emailed me after I sent this to her and she said she was going to check on the will while she is there.

The uncle sounds like a real winner-stealing money from his nieces and nephews. I noticed Joseph has a CA address too. I wonder if he lived in CA in the 70s and if Rose would've contacted him.

christine2448
07-07-2006, 01:54 PM
Well, I posted the court document itreenw to find out if someone could decode it for us, on the probate/will forum at freelegaladvice.com...here was my response...no help, I don't believe :( :


The affidavit of publication is simply a form that announces that notification about the estate has been published in a major local daily newspaper or legal newspaper in the Flint, Michigan area so that creditors can file a claim if necessary with the estate.

All you need to do to get information about this estate is to visit the Genesee County Probate Court in Flint, Michigan and look at the probate file, which will contain information about how the estate was handled, the original will and names and addresses of any beneficiaries. Then your curiosity will be satisfied!!

If you live too far away from the courthouse, perhaps in another state, call or write the courthouse to ask for copies from the probate file to be mailed to you.

DANDY DON IN OKLAHOMA

IsabelaPR
07-07-2006, 03:24 PM
I went to the courthouse and found the document. Notifications were sent to the available addresses and confirmation was received from 3 of the 4 kids:
Norma (Received letter)
Billy (Received letter)
Pose (letter returned unable to locate Pose)
Brenda (Received letter)

Unknown Addresses:
Jesse
Rose

A few months later, they found Jesse's address and notification and confirmation were recorded in file.

Nothing was sent or received to or from Rose.

In 1996, J Borich re-opened the case to claim money Jesse Joseph had been awarded from a lawsuit he made to a former employer.

None of the kids were notified on this matter.

That's all this document is it doesn't get us any closer to Rose.

I made copies of a couple of pages. They only had one microfilm machine and it was not working properly.

HeartofTexas
07-07-2006, 03:44 PM
Among other things, I think I hate that J Borich character. What a slimeball.

I also notice that Jesse's 3rd wife wasn't notified. Were they divorced? Why didn't she get any of Jesse's estate? Why wasn't she notified?

IsabelaPR
07-07-2006, 03:56 PM
Today, I went back to the police station. I feel like a failure! I spoke with Sgt. Younger who wants nothing to do with this case. He was very rude and suggested I sue the city for loosing Rose. He sent me to the courthouse to locate the records. I knew the records are no longer available but went there anyway.

The people there tried to help me but despite their efforts no records to be found. I did learned that the city of Flint paid the Synanon bill. She said that the Synanon was supposed to report back to Flint every 90 days with a status report on Rose. Since there are no records we don’t know for sure what information was given to the courts. We don’t know if they ever reporter her missing.

I also learned that in Flint, MI you are considered an adult at 16 (maybe 17 my emotions were running the show at this point, can‘t remember if she said 16 or 17), therefore the record will have been “sponged” (destroyed). This might be the reason for the 1974 document to dismissed the charges, she was 18 by then. . .

I went back to Younger and told him what I learned. He had told me Rose didn’t qualify under the missing person’s criteria. I asked him many times what this “criteria” was but I didn’t get clarification. But when I came back and explained the records not been available, he felt I should file the report in California. I asked what was the difference, why will Rose qualify in CA but not in Flint? He said he couldn’t understand why was I expecting to get any help from Flint. I asked him if he had children, and told him I had one, and if Flint police department came and took my child away I would expect them to keep him safe. I also said, that I felt they lost her and the least they could do was to help me found her.

So his attitude dropped and he asked if I was expecting for him to go against procedures and he proceeded to call Detective Crawford who is supposed to call me sometime next week.

He also suggested I went to the press, and told me how to get to the news station. I went there, talk to a reporter and she explained that the only way she would show Rose’s picture is if there is a Flint Missing person report. She kept Rose’s picture and gave me her contact information in case Crawford has a heart and helps us out.

So, I got nothing. . .We are leaving Flint in a couple of hours. . .

IsabelaPR
07-07-2006, 03:58 PM
Among other things, I think I hate that J Borich character. What a slimeball.

I also notice that Jesse's 3rd wife wasn't notified. Were they divorced? Why didn't she get any of Jesse's estate? Why wasn't she notified?

They were divorced prior to his death. . .Isabela

hoping4truth
07-07-2006, 05:30 PM
You didn't fail, Isabella.
Failing would have been walking past the police station, and never even trying!
I admire you so much for what you do! I sit at my computer and do research, but you're out there stirring the pot!
You're doing a great thing for Rose! I know you know that, but I wanted to remind you what I see every time I check this thread: Strength and dedication!

Keep it up!

HeartofTexas
07-07-2006, 07:45 PM
I want to second what Hoping said, Isabela. You went there with a mission and you went after it with a vengeance. It's not your fault that few people want anything to do with it. They're probably afraid they ultimately will have some kind of liability for "losing Rose", so don't want to allow the case to re-surface. But you've tried and you've looked them in the eye and you've marched from the police station, to the Courthouse, to news station, etc.

Don't forget, too, that you have learned a few things... that Rose's name was listed in the obituary, that Flint paid the Synanon bill, etc. So we do know more than before you went there. I admire you so much, and I'm proud of you for trying so hard to locate Rose. Have a safe trip home.

Shadow205
07-08-2006, 07:42 AM
Isabela,

Do not feel like you failed. You opened the door and got people's attention. People there now know about Rose and something could come out of that. I found contact information for Governor Jennifer M. Granholm. Here it is:


Governor Jennifer M. Granholm

P.O. Box 30013
Lansing, Michigan 48909



PHONE: (517) 373-3400
PHONE: (517) 335-7858 - Constituent Services
FAX:(517) 335-6863

On her website http://www.michigan.gov/gov/0,1607,7-168-21995---,00.html I found this:

Citizen Assistance (http://www.michigan.gov/gov/0,1607,7-168-35316---,00.html)
State Agency Support - The Governor is committed to assisting anyone who has encountered difficulty reaching a resolution with a state governed agency, or anyone who is unsure of whom to contact to address a particular concern. If you are having a problem that you would like assistance with, please use this form.

Here is the link for the form: https://www.mich.gov/gov/0,1607,7-168-35316-65315--SS,00.html


I think that it would be a good idea to send in that form. Explain to the Governor that you went to Flint, MI and feel that you got the runaround while trying to get Rose listed as a missing person. Stress the fact that Rose was a juvenile sent there by the judicial system. Ask for her assistance. I think that it is time for you to go up the ladder.

IsabelaPR
07-08-2006, 11:31 AM
Isabela,
The Governor is committed to assisting anyone who has encountered difficulty reaching a resolution with a state governed agency,[/b] or anyone who is unsure of whom to contact to address a particular concern. If you are having a problem that you would like assistance with, please use this form.[/size][/font]

Here is the link for the form: https://www.mich.gov/gov/0,1607,7-168-35316-65315--SS,00.html


[/indent]

Thank you guys! To all of you!!! ~~~ GRACIAS!

I completed the form to the governor and sent her the pictures and letters link along with the forum link. Hopefully we get a reply. . .

HeartofTexas
07-08-2006, 04:48 PM
Great job on that link, Shadow! What a find!

Welcome back home, Isabela. Keep us posted on anything you hear from anyone. Hopefully the Governor will light a fire under the Flint PD.

Shadow205
07-09-2006, 08:38 PM
Great job on that link, Shadow! What a find!

Welcome back home, Isabela. Keep us posted on anything you hear from anyone. Hopefully the Governor will light a fire under the Flint PD.
Thanks HoT, lets hope that she might get some help from the Governor.

rmpltzr
07-10-2006, 04:20 PM
I've read every message in both threads regarding this. (Took me awhile!) I've visited every link and looked at every picture.

Don't give up Isabella! Contact the Gov. Keep fighting for this info. Rose is out there. Her history, her story is out there. You are an amazing person to take this on and this is an amazing group to help you out. I truly wish there was something I could do that would help ease your burden.

You will know what happened to her one day. I'm sure of it and I hope it happens soon.

itsreenw
07-10-2006, 04:30 PM
Isabela, why don't you talk to your husband and ask how close Uncle Joseph and his dad were. I am wondering if Uncle Joseph would be able to shed any light on Rose or recall a conversation he and Jesse Joseph had back then. I'm sure they had to have talked about it at some point. He made him the executor of his will even though his own kids were adults when he died so I assume they had a relationship. Couldn't hurt to try.

IsabelaPR
07-10-2006, 06:36 PM
Isabela, why don't you talk to your husband and ask how close Uncle Joseph and his dad were. I am wondering if Uncle Joseph would be able to shed any light on Rose or recall a conversation he and Jesse Joseph had back then. I'm sure they had to have talked about it at some point. He made him the executor of his will even though his own kids were adults when he died so I assume they had a relationship. Couldn't hurt to try.

I know what you mean, I been wanting to call the guy myself and see what he says. I know the minute he realizes its someone related to Jesse Joseph, he will hang up, so I was thinking to pretend I was a Private investigator looking for Rose. Maybe one of you do a better job than me as a PI, what do you think?

Another problem I am having is that I can't find his phone number. The one guy in CA is only 50 years old and the other one in AZ is in his late 80's. I don't think either one is him. . .

By the way, I tried to do the same with JJoseph 3rd wife (Orr), but no luck with the phone numbers found.

GraceBlue
07-10-2006, 07:47 PM
I know what you mean, I been wanting to call the guy myself and see what he says. I know the minute he realizes its someone related to Jesse Joseph, he will hang up, so I was thinking to pretend I was a Private investigator looking for Rose. Maybe one of you do a better job than me as a PI, what do you think?

Another problem I am having is that I can't find his phone number. The one guy in CA is only 50 years old and the other one in AZ is in his late 80's. I don't think either one is him. . .

By the way, I tried to do the same with JJoseph 3rd wife (Orr), but no luck with the phone numbers found.

You can try searching for them on www.zabasearch.com (its free) I've found a lot of people there who are 'unlisted' in telephone books. Good Luck!

HeartofTexas
07-10-2006, 11:33 PM
How old would you say Borich is, Isabela? I found one that's 86... is he younger than that? I also found one that's 49 and one that's 105! Name your age, and I'll find him for you... LOL!

Shadow205
07-11-2006, 07:24 AM
Isabella,

Did you ever hear anything from the lady who does the needlepoint with the mother named Rose?

Shadow205
07-11-2006, 07:46 AM
Itsreenw,

I was just reading back over the info that you posted about the will. I noticed this:

1 IPT
JOSEPH BORICH ATTORNEY: BREWER
6511 MAPLEBROOK BLDG 16
FLINT MI 48507

2 IPT AOT 10/11/1995 10/11/1995 CIP 4/18/1996 CIC 5/20/1996
BORICH,JOSEPH, ATTORNEY: BREWER

39155 DOVETREE DRIVE
MURRIETA CA 92563


Whose address is that?

christine2448
07-11-2006, 09:20 AM
so I was thinking to pretend I was a Private investigator looking for Rose. Maybe one of you do a better job than me as a PI, what do you think?

Get Shadow to call, I bet she will, retired LE, she knows how to question I bet, like a PI would....Shadow?

welder 79
07-11-2006, 11:53 AM
IsabelaPR You doing a fine Job, failure is a word not even within a million mile's of you..I try not to post on these site's I have a hard time keeping up with but all yourall have left me in the dust in this case. But Iam learning a lot from everybody on this site..I remember when this family 1st asked for help I believe i posted and talked to a member of the family, the work and the speed of this case has completely amaze me,everybody on here is doing a super very fine job:)

Shadow205
07-11-2006, 03:56 PM
Get Shadow to call, I bet she will, retired LE, she knows how to question I bet, a PI would....Shadow?
I would be glad to Isabella, just say the word.

christine2448
07-11-2006, 06:30 PM
OK, those of you that know me, know how bad my memory is from a bad car accident awhile back......anyhow, I rec'd 2 emails in the last couple of days, responding to emails I sent...


The email from Gov Arnold...he somehow got that passed to him with Rose's story and me asking for maps of the Oakland area in the year we think Rose went missing....not much help.

From: governor@govmail.ca.gov governor@govmail.ca.gov
To: christine2448@charter.net
Friday, June 09, 2006 2:10 PM
Subject: Searching for girl who went missing 1972-1973

Thank you for taking the time to email and share your concerns. I believe government works best when elected officials listen to the people they represent on important issues.

Decision-making authority for the matter you describe rests entirely with the City of Oakland. Their officials should be able to locate maps of the city in the 1970's. Although I value your perspective, I am committed to honoring the role and responsibility of these locally-elected officials.

Again, thank you for your email. I urge you to continue working with your local representatives to see that your concerns are addressed.

Sincerely,

Arnold Schwarzenegger


And then, I got this one right after...I don't remember this one at all...:waitasec:
Crap, went to copy and paste and it's on work computer I guess...will look tomorrow, it was from a coroner, about a doe that does NOT match :)

MagicRose99
07-11-2006, 07:49 PM
Christine, I know when my Dad had problems with the City of Oakland (regarding a ticket he did NOT get! - and we live in Sacto) He went to Rep. Robert Matsui who took care of the matter with the officials in Oakland. Rep. Matsui has since passed on, but his wife now has his old job. She is committed to helping the people as her husband did... you may want to try to contact her office and see if she can help. I'm sorry... I don't remember her name... I think it's Doris? Rep. Doris Matsui?

Shadow205
07-11-2006, 09:49 PM
I just thought of something that I don't think that we have considered before. How many other kids were sent to Synanon by the Judicial system in Flint,MI or from all of MI for that matter? Were they sent there from other states also? Just how many court systems used Synanon as a resource for dealing with juveniles? How many other kids never returned? Was Rose the only one? I don't have the answers to these questions but I think that it is something that we need to try and look in to. Maybe an add in the paper in Flint, MI looking for people who were sent there as juveniles to start? What do you think?

itsreenw
07-12-2006, 10:37 PM
Itsreenw,

I was just reading back over the info that you posted about the will. I noticed this:

1 IPT
JOSEPH BORICH ATTORNEY: BREWER
6511 MAPLEBROOK BLDG 16
FLINT MI 48507

2 IPT AOT 10/11/1995 10/11/1995 CIP 4/18/1996 CIC 5/20/1996
BORICH,JOSEPH,ATTORNEY: BREWER
39155 DOVETREE DRIVE
MURRIETA CA 92563


Whose address is that?


Sorry it all ran together.
It should read like this:

Borich, Joseph .................................................A ttorney: Brewer
39155 Dovetree Drive
Murrieta Ca 92563

I think the Flint address may be the attorney's address. He'd want a local atty to handle the case for him. Isabela, do you know how long Borich has lived in CA. Rose may have contacted her uncle while she was on the run in CA.

itsreenw
07-12-2006, 10:47 PM
BORICH, JOSEPH A (http://www.people-finders.ws/order.asp?1=JOSEPH;;A;;BORICH;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;434 961584&2=name&3=people&4=31&5=joseph;;;;borich;;;;;;;;;;)
Associated names:
BORICH, JOSEPH M
49 AvailableAvailableASHLAND, OR
FLINT, MI
MURRIETA, CA
SUN CITY, CA
TEMECULA, CA
SUNNYMEAD, CA
SALOME, AZ
HEMET, CA
FORT MOHAVE, AZ
DAVISON, MIBORICH, ERMA L (age 69) (http://www.people-finders.ws/order.asp?1=ERMA;;L;;BORICH;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;17281 6329&2=name&3=people&4=1&5=joseph;;;;borich;;;;;;;;;;)
BORICH, ERMA (http://www.people-finders.ws/order.asp?1=ERMA;; ;;BORICH;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;183013528&2=name&3=people&4=1&5=joseph;;;;borich;;;;;;;;;;)
BORICH, ERMA (http://www.people-finders.ws/order.asp?1=ERMA;; ;;BORICH;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;172808341&2=name&3=people&4=1&5=joseph;;;;borich;;;;;;;;;;)
BORICH, ERMA L (age 69) (http://www.people-finders.ws/order.asp?1=ERMA;;L;;BORICH;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;80803 4234&2=name&3=people&4=1&5=joseph;;;;borich;;;;;;;;;;)
BORICH, J (http://www.people-finders.ws/order.asp?1=J;; ;;BORICH;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;1054882676&2=name&3=people&4=1&5=joseph;;;;borich;;;;;;;;;;)
BORICH, E (http://www.people-finders.ws/order.asp?1=E;; ;;BORICH;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;1088177656&2=name&3=people&4=1&5=joseph;;;;borich;;;;;;;;;;)

This is him. Whoever is going to call him, PM me so I can get a phone # to you.

hoping4truth
07-17-2006, 06:41 PM
any news

IsabelaPR
07-19-2006, 06:02 AM
any news
No news! Michigan PD have not call me back as they promised. How surprising!!! I have to follow up, I know! But I am running out of hours in a day! It sucks coming back to work after a week off, am still trying to caught up on e-mails not to mention daily tasks!

But it will get done before Friday!

Keep you posted!

Isa

hoping4truth
07-19-2006, 12:29 PM
Thanks Isabela. I didn't want this to get lost :D

itsreenw
07-20-2006, 12:56 AM
Isa, I PM'd Shadow the # for Joseph Borack. Just waiting for your ok to call.

hoping4truth
07-20-2006, 03:54 PM
Pugsley posted this on another thread back in 2004.

http://members.tripod.com/~nfishel/page3.html

For some reason, as I was reading it, I thought of Rose. Probably because this group reminds me of synanon. I don't know. Thought it was interesting - hope it hasn't been posted before.

itsreenw
07-20-2006, 05:01 PM
H4T, I had never seen that site or heard of that group. Thanks for sharing. I wonder if there is a way to get sites like that linked to the Doe Network & other MP sites.

Surely there are family members looking for the people in those pics.

IsabelaPR
07-20-2006, 06:06 PM
Isa, I PM'd Shadow the # for Joseph Borack. Just waiting for your ok to call.

Go for it!!!! :clap:

Shadow205
07-20-2006, 07:47 PM
I just spoke with Uncle Joseph who was no help at all. He said that he had not seen Rose since she was a baby. He said that Jesse Joseph never spoke of her in the years between when she disappeared and when he died. Uncle Joseph said that the only thing that he ever told him was that Rose ran away and just vanished. He said that he knew nothing of her being sent to Synanon and was under the impression that she ran away from home and vanished. He said that Jesse Joseph was always very reluctant to talk about his kids. He also mentioned that he had not talked to his brother for years before he died.

itsreenw
07-24-2006, 04:43 AM
Thanks Shadow. So does Uncle Joseph live in CA or MI? Did he say where he lived back then? That is really odd that he was the beneficiary if they hadn't talked for years prior to JJ's death. Isa, who contacted him about the death, do you know? There is no easy way to say this, but have Rose's brothers ever suspected their dad had anything to do with Rose not coming home?

I am sorry if I offend anyone but I find their father's actions peculiar and somewhat suspicious. I can understand the father being embarrassed by Rose's drug problem and not mentioning that she was in a drug treatment program.

HOWEVER, when she went missing, there is no way he simply forgot to mention the fact that Rose was 3000 miles away and had sent letters begging to come home. No way would a father NOT have leaped over mountains to get his daughter home no matter what disciplinary problems she had prior to Syn. He never contacted the police to our knowledge. No MP reports filed. He intercepted Rose's letters to her brothers, which to me indicates he wanted them to feel that she abandoned them. She begs for forgiveness and another chance to come home. She says she is on the run, homeless and in need of medical care and she says she is hiding from Syn members but he finds no cause for alarm? He still believe she simply ran away? I believe there are some family secrets that have not been mentioned. I dont want to pry but if we are going to search for Rose we need ALL the info that might be pertinent to the case.

I think we need to ask the questions that nobody wants to ask.

Shadow205
07-24-2006, 11:43 AM
I didn't ask Uncle Joseph how long he had been living in CA however I did mention that we thought maybe since he was there that Rose might have contacted him. I assume that he was there at the time that Rose was in Synanon. The conversation was rather strained to be honest with you. He seemed very uncomfortable with me asking questions about the family. I thought that the statement about Jesse Joseph being "reluctant" to talk about his kids was rather odd too.
I have mentioned it before but I'll bring it up again. We really need to know if Rose made it back to MI for that court hearing. If she did then something happened to her in MI. The whole family had moved away by that time. Her Father, Jesse Joseph was the only one left there.
I still think that it would be helpfull to find out how many other kids were sent to Synanon by the judicial system in MI too. Did they all make it back home? Would an add in the paper looking for anyone who was sent there be helpful? When the reporter seemed interested in doing a story on Rose, I was hoping that it would stirr up someone else who might have been sent there also. Maybe I'll try and contact here again but she seemed to loose interest when she found out that there was no family living in Flint.

Bluecat
07-24-2006, 01:05 PM
I found a possible link to another place she could have been sucked into

http://www.rickross.com/reference/herbalife/herbalife9.html

It appears that there was an offshoot called CEDU, that supposedly was not confrontational. Mark Hughes, founder of Herbalife, attended it.

If Rose stayed in California, I wonder if it is possible that she got sucked into CEDU?

Some more info on Synanon:
http://religiousmovements.lib.virginia.edu/nrms/synanon.html

I wonder if Deborah Swisher knows anything about Rose?
http://www.rickross.com/reference/synanon/synanon4.html

itsreenw
07-24-2006, 03:36 PM
As much as I hate to even bring this up, if Jesse Joseph lived there alone, I think it may be a good idea to go over the layout of the house to see if Rose may have been buried there. My apologies to the Cole family but we can leave no stone unturned. .

christine2448
07-24-2006, 04:25 PM
Hiya everyone :)


I would like to put a page about Rose on the new Wiki site for the missing....Wiki is one of my absolute favorite sites (you know, wiki encyclopedia) and they are now working on this new 'section'...devoted to a database for the missing.

If it's OK with everyone...I will start putting it together...unless someone else wants to volunteer to tackle it.

Let me know....(I am working on several)

http://72.41.66.103/index.php/Main_Page

itsreenw
07-25-2006, 05:07 AM
Hiya everyone :)


I would like to put a page about Rose on the new Wiki site for the missing....Wiki is one of my absolute favorite sites (you know, wiki encyclopedia) and they are now working on this new 'section'...devoted to a database for the missing.

If it's OK with everyone...I will start putting it together...unless someone else wants to volunteer to tackle it.

Let me know....(I am working on several)

http://72.41.66.103/index.php/Main_PageGreat idea!! I like wiki too. If it's ok with Isa and the family, I will be glad to help if you need it.

hoping4truth
07-27-2006, 12:56 PM
How's the wiki page coming?

christine2448
07-27-2006, 01:42 PM
I am hoping to give it my full attention this weekend...I am working on a few other cases at the same time to put up on the site. I'd like to get it done with hopes that maybe it could maybe reach someone that wouldn't otherwise see Rose's story/pictures.

Thanks for asking :)

christine2448
07-27-2006, 01:47 PM
Great idea!! I like wiki too. If it's ok with Isa and the family, I will be glad to help if you need it.Thanks itsreenw...I may PM you for help in gathering some info, mostly links if your offer still stands. I am hoping to give my wiki projects some good attention this weekend and will have a better idea of what I may need assistance with...right now seems like the most time consuming thing is going to be gathering a list of links about Rose.....I'll let you know over the weekend.

Thanks!

Oh dang....I don't even remember if I asked ISA's permission....Isabella????

I have talked to so many people the last couple of weeks about the wiki site and have lost track of who I spoke to. Let me go and double check my PM's.

EDIT AFTER CHECKING PM'S....I can't find where ISA and I discussed this, I just PM'd h er asking for permission ;) I'm such a scatter brain sometimes!!!!

itsreenw
07-27-2006, 09:06 PM
Christine, while we are waiting for Isa's ok I will start gathering a list of links related to Rose like her blog site, her WS forum, I added her to a name data base for people that attended school in Flint, too. I'll get the link to Synanon, etc...things that I know you will add on Wiki. I'll email what I come up with.

HeartofTexas
07-27-2006, 09:14 PM
Let me know if you need any additional help, Reen and Christine. While I can't speak for Isabela, and definitely want her to give her approval, I feel certain she will be very pleased to have any information out there that may ultimately lead to locating Rose. Thanks to both of you for your great ideas.

Shadow205
07-30-2006, 08:29 AM
Hiya everyone :)


I would like to put a page about Rose on the new Wiki site for the missing....Wiki is one of my absolute favorite sites (you know, wiki encyclopedia) and they are now working on this new 'section'...devoted to a database for the missing.

If it's OK with everyone...I will start putting it together...unless someone else wants to volunteer to tackle it.

Let me know....(I am working on several)

http://72.41.66.103/index.php/Main_Page
Hey Christine,

I thought that Isabel already had Rose listed there but I checked and didn't find her. Hmmmm,what site did she list her at? Anyone remember? I remember that I sent her the link but I don't remember what site it was.

christine2448
07-30-2006, 09:17 AM
I just realized this site is Wiki Missing Abducted....I wonder if it would still be OK to post her on there?

I had intentions of doing everything this weekend, but the site is not working correctly :(

SpongeBathHotPants
08-01-2006, 10:00 PM
This thread caught my eye because my married name is Cole and my husband's family is from Flint MI. I asked my MIL if she knew any of these people and she said no but that there was another Cole family that lived near by in the 70's and the family was mean and rude, the father was the worst. A drunk I guess. I don't know if this is anything but I figured I would throw it out there.


Isa, ask your husband if he knows of the Coles that lived in MI in the 70's, Travis or Glady.

christine2448
08-01-2006, 10:15 PM
This thread caught my eye because my married name is Cole and my husband's family is from Flint MI. I asked my MIL if she knew any of these people and she said no but that there was another Cole family that lived near by in the 70's and the family was mean and rude, the father was the worst. A drunk I guess. I don't know if this is anything but I figured I would throw it out there.


Isa, ask your husband if he knows of the Coles that lived in MI in the 70's, Travis or Glady.


Hiya SpongeBathHotPants......WOW, small world!

SpongeBathHotPants
08-01-2006, 10:19 PM
Yeah, I agree. The reason they met was because my husband's great uncle went missing in the 40's and they never found him so one day my MIL was driving down the road and a man rear ended her and said his name was Kenneth Cole (the uncle and my husband's name and no it isn't the designer) and she asked if he was her missing uncle in law and he make a rude comment so she gave my FIL the info and he and a cop buddy went to check them out and that is how they found out about how mean and rude they were.


So hey, if anyone finds a Kenneth Cole that went missing in the 40's from MI let me know. There is a $100.00 reward. LOL

IsabelaPR
08-02-2006, 12:03 AM
I am so behind on reading e-mails is unbelievable. As many of you know, I took a week off to go to Michigan. It has been almost 3 weeks and I am behind on everything, work, Rose, my last contract administration class! Ugh!!!

Regarding Rose, HURRRRRAAAAYYYYY!!!! I received a call yesterday from NCMC regarding DNA. The lady who call me is contacting Madison police department. Her plan is to send the DNA kit to them and have them contact us for a cheek swap. I warned her about my beloved supporters her in Madcity ;) I already told her of the back up plan. If they give her any trouble I have my sister's friend husband, a cop from a city nearby willing to help out. She said that she will call me to let me know if Madison is going to do it or if we need to go with plan B.

I am so very excited! She also said that once DNA is collected it will take about 2 months to get results. In addition they do both DNA test, father and mother side.

Thank you so much for all your help and support!!!! Isabela
:woohoo: :woohoo:

IsabelaPR
08-08-2006, 11:22 PM
DNA test is scheduled for tomorrow at 10:00 AM Central time!!! We are so much closer! A bit scary. . .mixed feelings. . .No hits, we are back on square one. A hit. . .Agh!! :o

We will not know for a while. . .Isa

HeartofTexas
08-08-2006, 11:31 PM
Thanks for letting us know, Isabela! And congratulations... it's been a long time coming. Let us know when you hear something.

Shadow205
08-09-2006, 11:51 AM
Someone refresh my memory please. Is the DNA going to be tested against the California Jane Doe that doacop was working with us on?

IsabelaPR
08-09-2006, 03:31 PM
The DNA test has been handled by the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. They contacted Madison directly.

Jesse went to the police station today, here in Madison. The same station were I have been harassing a few cops about Rose's missing persons report and DNA test. Jesse was running late so the officer called me looking for him. This is the first time I talked to this guy. He was very nice!

NCMEC, wanted me to send them the envelope I had from one of Rose's letters to see if they can extract any DNA from it. I sent the envelope with Jesse and I burned a couple of CD with Rose's letters, legal documents, pictures, forum link, etc, to be sent with the envelope.

When talking to the officer, he said this was the first time he had heard of Rose. I gave him Rose's Madison case number and "lightly" mentioned my harassment to his co-workers :)

He asked me about Rose, and I explained as much as I could in the short amount of time we had to talk. (Jesse was almost there). I asked him to keep a copy of the CD and warned him that once he started to read her letters, he will be one of us. He laughed and said that he understood.

And to think, I was about to give up on Madison PD!

His DNA will go into the same database that COP Marin County wanted. Once is there it will look at all Jane Does around the country that have DNA on file, including California Jane Doe(doacop)

ISA

Shadow205
08-09-2006, 03:49 PM
That is great news Isabela. Are you still in contact with doacop? There is something that was mentioned by I think Heartoftexas awhile back that he might be able to help with. In Roses last letter, she mentioned that she was very sick from a kidney infection. Maybe doacop could check hospital records in the Chinatown area around that date. It's a long shot, if she went to a hospital, she might not have used her name. It would be worth looking into if there is any way possible to do it.

christine2448
08-09-2006, 04:25 PM
His DNA will go into the same database that COP Marin County wanted. Once is there it will look at all Jane Does around the country that have DNA on file, including California Jane Doe(doacop)

ISAAs much as we all are excited for the progress, at the same time, my heart aches....I do not want to find her this way! :snooty: I DO NOT want her to be a Jane Doe found on a database by DNA! :snooty:

I want to find her ALIVE. So we can show her how much she IS loved. :dance:

christine2448
08-09-2006, 04:32 PM
That is great news Isabela. Are you still in contact with doacop? There is something that was mentioned by I think Heartoftexas awhile back that he might be able to help with. In Roses last letter, she mentioned that she was very sick from a kidney infection. Maybe doacop could check hospital records in the Chinatown area around that date. It's a long shot, if she went to a hospital, she might not have used her name. It would be worth looking into if there is any way possible to do it.
Where exactly is Chinatown? What is the date of the letter? I just found a huge database on hospitals and clinics in CA, but don't know where Chinatown is. I will write everyone of them if needed, sending her pics and dates and condition...maybe someone will help us.


I have given up on the 'mapping' her possible route....just too complicated, and after thinking I don't think it will help in finding her.

HeartofTexas
08-09-2006, 04:55 PM
Chinatown is near downtown SF. It's just a few blocks away. I researched clinic databases a few mos. ago and wrote to one of them but, like everything else, nobody answered me.

christine2448
08-09-2006, 04:58 PM
Chinatown is near downtown SF. It's just a few blocks away. I researched clinic databases a few mos. ago and wrote to one of them but, like everything else, nobody answered me.
Yeah, I know, I get a lot of none responses too.

I spent the last couple of hours at work today hitting the newspapers again, this time though I went with different reporters, asking if they are interested in running a story on her...nothing last time...we'll see.

BTW, what are the best areas to concentrate, Oakland? Those are the papers I am hitting, or SanFran?

Maybe I am targeting the wrong area....there is so much info on here I can't keep up..someone tell me what cities to hit for media/newspapers...I only sent a few today, so if it was wrong areas, it's OK.

HeartofTexas
08-09-2006, 05:03 PM
I said earlier that it was near downtown, but I think the more correct way to refer to that area is the Financial District. The FD runs along California Street (and around some other blocks) and Chinatown is near Grant and Stockton (just in case you have a map of the area that you're looking at). From the Bank of America Headquarters Bldg., it was just about a 2 block walk to Chinatown.

HeartofTexas
08-09-2006, 05:05 PM
Christine, I would concentrate on SF rather than Oakland. She mentioned SF in her last letter home and also mentioned Chinatown... so apparently she left Oakland (which is just across the bridge from SF) and headed to SF anywhere from Dec. to February. I think she was in Chinatown when she wrote about the kidney infection.

christine2448
08-09-2006, 05:50 PM
Christine, I would concentrate on SF rather than Oakland. She mentioned SF in her last letter home and also mentioned Chinatown... so apparently she left Oakland (which is just across the bridge from SF) and headed to SF anywhere from Dec. to February. I think she was in Chinatown when she wrote about the kidney infection.
Thanks HOT...I knew you'd tell me where to 'go'.

Listen ya'll, besides the time I have been sneaking at work to do stuff on some of the missing cases, I am really bogged down right now with Homeschooling.

Can everyone #1 forgive me for not working on Rose's page for the Wiki Site and :loser: 2nd, can someone take this on. It wouldn't be hard for someone that knows Rose's story, they give a template and everything to follow, very straightforward.

And last, I had asked in an earlier post, can we put her on there, it is called Wiki ABDUCTED/MISSING?

I'm sorry ya'll about not having the time to spend on here right now....what the heck was I thinking to homeschool! Please pray for me!

HeartofTexas
08-09-2006, 10:25 PM
Christine, of course we understand! I read your homeschooling schedule (and work schedule, and hubby's schedule, etc.) on another thread... and I totally understand. Your evenings are going to be like a bullet train going thru the house!

I can write Rose's story if someone else can do the webpage. I am TOTALLY challenged in that area, so don't even want to pretend to be able to take it on.

And again, I FEEL ISABELA WOULD TOTALLY AGREE TO US PUTTING ROSE ON THE WIKI ABDUCTED/MISSING website if she would just see this note (which is why it's in all caps, so she might see it!).

christine2448
08-09-2006, 11:42 PM
Christine, of course we understand! I read your homeschooling schedule (and work schedule, and hubby's schedule, etc.) on another thread... and I totally understand. Your evenings are going to be like a bullet train going thru the house!

I can write Rose's story if someone else can do the webpage. I am TOTALLY challenged in that area, so don't even want to pretend to be able to take it on.

And again, I FEEL ISABELA WOULD TOTALLY AGREE TO US PUTTING ROSE ON THE WIKI ABDUCTED/MISSING website if she would just see this note (which is why it's in all caps, so she might see it!).
Getting ready to crash, but wanted to check in..Isabela said it was fine, my worry was just it is a site for abducted, so would this story be acceptable?

And thanks HOT, for your understanding in my busy schedule right now. http://smilies.sofrayt.com/fsc/smile3.gif

If your willing to do it, I'll PM you, you will be amazed at how easy it is, like typing an email!.... we can 'talk' about it. PM me if you want me to explain it and we can get this started. And actually, if you are worried about the posting on the page, I can do all that, I just need the info...ugh, I am soooooooo tired right now, LOL....I'll PM you tomorrow.

Thanks again! http://smilies.sofrayt.com/^/aiw/yes2.gif

smile22
08-10-2006, 05:03 AM
it just dawned on me she said in her last letter she had a kidney infection she would have had to recive medical attention in order for her to know about the infection i think we need to look into hospital records or walk in clinics in that area

christine2448
08-10-2006, 08:11 AM
it just dawned on me she said in her last letter she had a kidney infection she would have had to recive medical attention in order for her to know about the infection i think we need to look into hospital records or walk in clinics in that area
That's what I am working on now smile, gmta!

HeartofTexas
08-10-2006, 09:07 AM
Christine, I forgot that was the main issue... that Rose probably wasn't abducted. Is there a category on Wiki called Vanished??? Or just Missing?

christine2448
08-10-2006, 09:40 AM
Christine, I forgot that was the main issue... that Rose probably wasn't abducted. Is there a category on Wiki called Vanished??? Or just Missing?I am not sure, will have to research, the only page I was aware of was called "Wiki-Abucted Missing"...I believe.

Shadow205
08-10-2006, 01:02 PM
Isabela,

Do not feel like you failed. You opened the door and got people's attention. People there now know about Rose and something could come out of that. I found contact information for Governor Jennifer M. Granholm. Here it is:




Governor Jennifer M. Granholm



P.O. Box 30013
Lansing, Michigan 48909









PHONE: (517) 373-3400
PHONE: (517) 335-7858 - Constituent Services
FAX:(517) 335-6863

On her website http://www.michigan.gov/gov/0,1607,7-168-21995---,00.html I found this:

Citizen Assistance (http://www.michigan.gov/gov/0,1607,7-168-35316---,00.html)
State Agency Support - The Governor is committed to assisting anyone who has encountered difficulty reaching a resolution with a state governed agency, or anyone who is unsure of whom to contact to address a particular concern. If you are having a problem that you would like assistance with, please use this form.

Here is the link for the form: https://www.mich.gov/gov/0,1607,7-168-35316-65315--SS,00.html


I think that it would be a good idea to send in that form. Explain to the Governor that you went to Flint, MI and feel that you got the runaround while trying to get Rose listed as a missing person. Stress the fact that Rose was a juvenile sent there by the judicial system. Ask for her assistance. I think that it is time for you to go up the ladder.




Isabela,

Did you ever get a reply from the Governors office? If not send it again or call. Also did you ever get a missing person report done with a case number?

Shadow205
08-10-2006, 03:56 PM
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37727&page=1&pp=25&highlight=Rose+Cole


I have been going back through the old thread today. I am trying to see if there is something that we were going to do that got overlooked.

christine2448
08-10-2006, 04:01 PM
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37727&page=1&pp=25&highlight=Rose+Cole


I have been going back through the old thread today. I am trying to see if there is something that we were going to do that got overlooked.
GMTA! Over the weekend I printed it out, the whole thing!!!! It was ALOT of paper. (Luckily I get free paper from work, it is just used on one side so I take it home and use the other side ;) )


Anyhow, I haven't had time to read it.....I skimmed it and that is what made me mention recently in a post I had given up onthe 'mapping' that was something I was working on in the older thread.

I think it's a great idea Shadow, we are all looking at so many different missing cases, our regular lives, work, kids, hubby's, yada yada, I forget so much too now that I am getting so old (I turned 36 this month)...actually, age has nothing to do with my forgetfullness, LOL! It is because of a bad wreck I had. So, please, let us know if we moved on from something and forgot about it!

Shadow205
08-10-2006, 06:32 PM
I found a Rose Cole today who works at Kaiser Permanente which is a medical facility/hospital in the San Francisco Bay area. I am searching their site to see if I can find a number for human resources to see if she is still employed there.

LOL, I had to register at this on line employment place where I found her listed in order to find out where she works. I had to do like a resume and what type of work I am interested in. I really hope that I don't get a job offer. I kinda like retirement! I have registered at some weird sites in searching but never an employment agency.

HeartofTexas
08-10-2006, 06:47 PM
I really hope that I don't get a job offer.
LOL! Not to even mention what a lonnnng commute it would be from W Va. to San Francisco!

Thanks for your brave efforts, Shadow, in going to the trouble of registering on an employment site.

IsabelaPR
08-10-2006, 10:01 PM
[QUOTE=Shadow205]I found a Rose Cole today who works at Kaiser Permanente which is a medical facility/hospital in the San Francisco Bay area. I am searching their site to see if I can find a number for human resources to see if she is still employed there.]

My previous employer has business there! I have very close friends that visit Kaiser Permanente facilities when they do training. Which facility is this one? I may have a good shot at this lead. . .

HeartofTexas
08-10-2006, 10:06 PM
Isabela, did you see the question above re whether or not you've ever gotten a case number assigned to Rose's case?

Also, if you do have a case number, is it okay for us to post re Rose being missing on a Wiki Abducted/Missing site? We need your approval and we need the case number.

Hope all is well in your little part of the world!

IsabelaPR
08-10-2006, 10:10 PM
Isabela, did you see the question above re whether or not you've ever gotten a case number assigned to Rose's case?

The only case number I have is the one from Madison. The real case number, to be used by NCMEC is the one from Oakland. I don't have that one; NCMEC filed the report themselves. . .

Do you want the Madison one? (check your PM)

Shadow205
08-11-2006, 10:30 AM
[QUOTE=Shadow205]I found a Rose Cole today who works at Kaiser Permanente which is a medical facility/hospital in the San Francisco Bay area. I am searching their site to see if I can find a number for human resources to see if she is still employed there.]

My previous employer has business there! I have very close friends that visit Kaiser Permanente facilities when they do training. Which facility is this one? I may have a good shot at this lead. . .
Isabela,

This is what I found:

Rose Cole

Float Clerk at Kaiser Permanente

San Francisco Bay Area (http://www.linkedin.com/search?search=&sortCriteria=3&countryCode=us&postalCode=94112&searchLocationType=I&goback=%2Enrp_1_1154739549787) | Hospital & Health Care (http://www.linkedin.com/search?search=&sortCriteria=3&industry=14&goback=%2Enrp_1_1154739549787)

Dr. Doogie
08-11-2006, 12:00 PM
The Rose Cole with Kaiser is definitely worth following up on, but as a caution before anyone gets too optimistic: a zabasearch shows that there is a Rose M. Cole who would be too old to our Rose living in San Leandro (which would be within commuting distance to both Oakland and San Francisco).

Shadow205
08-11-2006, 12:17 PM
Doogie,

Is San Leandro close to Carmel,CA. I found a Rose Cole there to. Here is the link to her http://www.cvgms.org/members/Cole,Rose.htm

Dr. Doogie
08-11-2006, 12:34 PM
Doogie,

Is San Leandro close to Carmel,CA. I found a Rose Cole there to. Here is the link to her http://www.cvgms.org/members/Cole,Rose.htm
San Leandro is in the East Bay area, just south of Oakland, and is on the BART line for an easy commute to most Bay Area locations. Carmel is about two-to-three hours away and would be a very long daily commute to SF.

christine2448
08-11-2006, 01:39 PM
Whatda ya think of this?


ooooLos Angeles Chapter
ooooNational Alliance of Market Developers, Inc.
ooooc/o Gale Harris & Associates
oooo10736 Jefferson Blvd. #273
ooooCulver City, CA 90230
ooooBusiness: 323-296-3681
ooooFAX: 323-296-3687
ooooEmail: galeharrispr@yahoo.com

Current Officers:
Lena Cole Dennis, Vice President
Frances Williams, Secretary
Aubrey Provost, Treasurer

christine2448
08-11-2006, 01:41 PM
And this appears to be the same person:


Co-Coordinator: Lena Cole-Dennis, Director of Outreach & Community Education
Telephone: 323-299-9496, ext. 108
E-mail: coledennis@hotmail.com (coledennis@hotmail.com)

Dr. Doogie
08-11-2006, 02:21 PM
Is Lena a name that is used for both males and females (like Jan or Pat)? Dennis is usually (always?) a male name, as compared to the feminized version Denise.

HeartofTexas
08-13-2006, 09:20 AM
Doogie, I'm guessing Lena is used mostly as a girl's name (as in Lena Horne). Rose's full name was Rose Lena Cole. However, according to Isabela, she very much disliked the name Lena. I'm sure that could have changed over time but it's doubtful that she would have dropped the one name she was happy with (Rose).

MagicRose99
08-13-2006, 09:43 AM
Also, I'm guessing the Dennis is the last (married?) name of this person... Cole-Dennis

HeartofTexas
08-13-2006, 10:04 AM
I agree, MagicRose. However, if her maiden name was Lena Cole, we shouldn't rule her out until it's checked further.

HeartofTexas
08-13-2006, 10:07 AM
From what I could find, this Lena Cole (Dennis) is 60 years old and her middle name is Lee (as in Lena Lee Dennis).

christine2448
08-13-2006, 11:22 AM
From what I could find, this Lena Cole (Dennis) is 60 years old and her middle name is Lee (as in Lena Lee Dennis).
Thanks HOT. Movin' on ;)

Dr. Doogie
08-13-2006, 01:48 PM
Oops! I misread the name as Dennis as the first name. Sorry for the confusion!

Shadow205
08-13-2006, 03:24 PM
I was reading back over Isabela's blog and here are some things that she listed that she needed to do. If they have not been done, then they need to be.

1. get Rose's social security number by requesting the school records from Emerson

2.contact www.missingadults.org This organization located in Phoenix, Arizona works with them, other local agencies and the FBI.

While reading at Isabela's blog I also noticed this:

SHE COULD BE LIVING IN CALIFORNIA, NEVADA OR MICHIGAN WHERE SHE GREW UP.

Can someone refresh my memory on Nevada? I don't remember Nevada ever being mentioned and I'm pretty sure that we have not concentrated on Nevada in our search efforts for Rose.
http://blog.360.yahoo.com/blog-6INKmI0oeqhPu8rlW9Hr0_5vBruoTei_3SWmS0TuDruGwQ--?cq=1&l=16&u=19&mx=19&lmt=5

Shadow205
08-13-2006, 03:32 PM
I found this if anyone wants to work with the names:

COLE LENA ROSE ELIZABETH / RUKES SHAWN M

It is a Nevada marriage lic. That's all that you get for free, no dates or anything. I know this Rose aslo has Elizabeth for a middle name but hey, worth looking at anyway.

HeartofTexas
08-13-2006, 09:18 PM
Shadow, it appears Lena Rose Rukes Cole is 36 years old, and apparently is Shawn's sister. His wife's name is Wendy, and she's 30 years old. Shawn is 33. Due to the age problem, I doubt this is our Rose.

Shadow205
08-14-2006, 01:58 PM
Well at least we are eliminating all of the other Rose Cole's out there one by one.:innocent:

gardenmom
08-28-2006, 12:39 PM
Anything new?

Shadow205
08-28-2006, 05:11 PM
Anything new?
Glad to see you back, hadn't seen you post here for awhile. There are some things happening with a DNA test on Rose's brother and I think that Isabella is making progress on getting Rose listed as a missing person. She is finally getting some help from LE.

gardenmom
08-28-2006, 07:42 PM
Hi! I am still around. I'd been gone for awhile, for a move, as you may remember. I just keep looking here to see if any DNA match had come in.

mysteriew
08-30-2006, 12:09 AM
Has anyone come across any association with or influence by the Children of God, Family of Love, The Family or Family International with Synanon?

Mostly likely time period would be around the time of the group marriages.

IsabelaPR
09-17-2006, 11:10 AM
Hello! No news to report at my end. Except that through some research on Jesse's family tree I got in contact with relatives of Jesse's mother, Willie Mae. They have a private page on MyFamily.com, where I now belong and was able to post Rose's pictures and the Forum information.

One of the contacts registered here and mentioned that some relatives live(d) in CA area.

Any how, more people exposed to Rose's story.

Isa

EdAlice
09-17-2006, 02:48 PM
Hi, I'm the Puckett contact that Isabel was referring to in her last post. Two of Rose’s uncles (Willie Mae’s brothers) were in California in 1961. Gordon Puckett of Camp Pendelton and Rufus Puckett, U.S. Navy, San Diego. I do not know if they stayed in California or not.



Their father, Pose Poem Puckett, died in 1961 and I’ve included his obituary here in case a name or place stands out to any of you.


Obituaries: Pose P. Puckett, Sabine Parish P-230

Source: Sabine Index, Many, La., May 12, 1961

The Sabine Index - Pose P. Puckett

12 May 1961 - Funeral services for Pose P. Puckett age 52, who died May 4th were conducted at Fisher Baptist Church at 2 p.m. May 7th with Rev. Oliver and Rev. Jack Comer officiating. Interment was in church cemetery under the direction of Warren Funeral Home. Surviving relatives are Mrs. Irene Puckett of Florien, sons, Gordon of Camp Pendelton, Calif., Rufus, U.S. Navy, San Diego, Calif., 2 daughters, Mrs. Estelle Roach and Mrs. Willie Mae Cole both of Mermentau, La.; 9 grandchildren, one brother, Roland Puckett of Sulphur, 6 sisters Mrs. Julia Maxie, Mrs. Velma McComic and Mrs. Maylene Eason all of Fisher, Mrs. Wilda Huff, Mrs. Roxie McFetridge and Mrs. Lurine Toups all of Deweyville, Texas.



There are other Puckett relatives that moved from Oklahoma to California, too. They would have been Pose’s 1st cousins:

Siblings Leaman Puckett was in Fairfield, California when he died;

Richard A. Puckett was listed as living in Los Angeles in his father’s obituary in September 1941;

and Inez Puckett Allen listed as living in Fairfield in September 1941 and died in Vallejo, California.

Siblings Iona Puckett Cassel living in San Jose, California at time of death had children, Travis and Charlotte Cassel;

and Era Puckett, unmarried, living in Emeryville, California, at time of

death on September 14, 1971.



Maybe some of the children of these cousins would have information we could use, but at this moment I don’t have any of their names (other than Iona’s children, Travis and Charlotte Cassel.)

:o By the way, I'm VERY impressed with you guys! What a calling. God bless you all.

EdAlice
09-17-2006, 03:00 PM
By the way, I meant to ask someone how to change my log in name. I found out how to edit my password but can't seem to take my "real" name off. I thought I'd replace it with EdAlice but have had no luck.

HeartofTexas
09-17-2006, 05:14 PM
Judy, I don't know how to change your log-in name, but if you will PM one of the moderators, they can tell you if it's even possible. It may require getting a whole new log-in name and then just not using the Shubert one. Jeana (DP) (http://websleuths.com/forums/member.php?u=365) is the moderator for this forum. Click on her name and you should have an option of "PM'ing" her.

BTW, welcome to the forum. And thanks for the info re the family tree. At least I now know where Rose's brother, Pose Poem, got his name!

gardenmom
09-18-2006, 09:37 PM
http://doenetwork.us/cases/131ufca.html

Any chance this could be Rose? Apparently the boy and girl have been tested for DNA and are not related. A long shot, but we haven't had any new leads lately, let's give this some thought.

IsabelaPR
09-19-2006, 11:15 PM
Hey! I am still at work! I think that Joseph and Jesse were around the same age. Have to check the family tree when I get home.

However, I thought we had already dealt with Joe. Shadow, didn't you call him already? I have to take a look at my e-mails but I could swear someone called him pretending to be a PI looking for Rose.

All I can remember is that he said that Jesse never mentioned Rose to him. . .something like that. . .Does anyone remembers having this conversation with me thru e-mail or instant messaging?

IsabelaPR
09-19-2006, 11:19 PM
Judy, I don't know how to change your log-in name, but if you will PM one of the moderators, they can tell you if it's even possible. It may require getting a whole new log-in name and then just not using the Shubert one. Jeana (DP) (http://websleuths.com/forums/member.php?u=365) is the moderator for this forum. Click on her name and you should have an option of "PM'ing" her.

BTW, welcome to the forum. And thanks for the info re the family tree. At least I now know where Rose's brother, Pose Poem, got his name!

HOT, Pose is going to come after you! Keep up making fun of his name :laugh: If he finds you, please send him my way :)

Am getting out of here, have to stop at the supermarket. . .talk to you guys later. ISA

Shadow205
09-19-2006, 11:23 PM
Hey! I am still at work! I think that Joseph and Jesse were around the same age. Have to check the family tree when I get home.

However, I thought we had already dealt with Joe. Shadow, didn't you call him already? I have to take a look at my e-mails but I could swear someone called him pretending to be a PI looking for Rose.

All I can remember is that he said that Jesse never mentioned Rose to him. . .something like that. . .Does anyone remembers having this conversation with me thru e-mail or instant messaging?
Yep, that was me that had the strange conversation with Unle Joe.:innocent:

MagicRose99
10-03-2006, 11:20 AM
No updates?

gardenmom
10-03-2006, 12:23 PM
Hi magicrose, I have been wondering too. I guess no news is good news. If there haven't been any hits on the DNA database, that could mean Rose is still alive.

itsreenw
10-06-2006, 10:58 PM
Hi Guys, haven't been here in awhile but I am back. What a small world this is.. The family lived in Fairfield and Vallejo, my stomping grounds of all places. Guess I could check into county records. Doubt there would be much relating to Rose but what the heck. I'll post what I find.

Shadow205
10-09-2006, 09:02 AM
Just looking for an update. IsabelaaPR has not signed on at WS's since 09/25. That is a long time to go without checking in. Geez, what if we had found Rose....I wish.

I wonder if she is still in touch with doacop? I've still never been totally convinced that the Jane Doe that he was working on is not Rose. According to Brenda, the dental records that were compared were not Rose's but another one of the sister's. Sorry, to early to look back and see whose. I'm sure everyone remembers that anyway.

HeartofTexas
10-09-2006, 09:29 AM
Shadow, the name of the sister that had the dental work was Norma.

The last I heard from Isabella, she was still in touch with DOACop, but there were no new updates to report.

Shadow205
10-09-2006, 09:42 AM
Shadow, the name of the sister that had the dental work was Norma.

The last I heard from Isabella, she was still in touch with DOACop, but there were no new updates to report.Yep, Norma, that's the one. Thanks HoT! d.o.a.cop has not signed in here at WS's since 08/15. I was hoping that he would stick around, we sure could use his advice from time to time on here. He is a wealth of information.

I want to continue to search for Rose but don't know of anything to do. Can anyone think of any stone that we have not turned over? Any ideas of a direction to go in?

HeartofTexas
10-09-2006, 10:09 AM
No, I wish I could. I was just reviewing some old emails from months ago where I sent specific agencies in California questions re Rose, and not one single person or agency ever responded. It's hard to follow-up on things when nobody answers your questions.

I, too, wish DOACop had continued to post here at WS. I also imagine his schedule is incredibly busy and that he has little free time. I wish that weren't the case.

HeartofTexas
10-13-2006, 09:52 AM
UPDATE:

As per an email I received from Isabela late last night, Jesse's DNA was added to the CODIS database on October 6, 2006, has now been added to the TEXAS DNA database and, possibly today, will enter the national DNA database where it will be compared with all current DNA and any new DNA entered from this point forward. I tried to post a paragraph from NCMEC's email to Isabela, but after 4 tries, I still can't get it to post properly... so I'm giving up!

d.o.a. cop
10-13-2006, 03:12 PM
Hello all,

I understand from Yanette that DNA is all but done. She did a hell of job making all that happen. I have looked in on the blog from time to time - your all quite persistant! I'll keep my prayers with the Cole family.

I have been quite busy - I will be teaching a CA POST statewide course to officers down in the Orange County Coroner Training Facilty next month - it will entail the ins and outs of identifying John and Jane Doe(s), how to locate next-of-kin & how to notify loved ones of a death.

I have also been working on my cousin's dissapearance - I, much like Yannette, have been tugging the ears of people across the country in an effort to get somene to dust off an old case and compare it to my cousin's. I have a pretty good lead in Florida and have been waiting, and waiting, and waiting for the investigator at the medical examiner's office to get back to me.

Good job everyone.

Darrell

christine2448
10-13-2006, 03:23 PM
Hello all,

I understand from Yanette that DNA is all but done. She did a hell of job making all that happen. I have looked in on the blog from time to time - your all quite persistant! I'll keep my prayers with the Cole family.

I have been quite busy - I will be teaching a CA POST statewide course to officers down in the Orange County Coroner Training Facilty next month - it will entail the ins and outs of identifying John and Jane Doe(s), how to locate next-of-kin & how to notify loved ones of a death.

I have also been working on my cousin's dissapearance - I, much like Yannette, have been tugging the ears of people across the country in an effort to get somene to dust off an old case and compare it to my cousin's. I have a pretty good lead in Florida and have been waiting, and waiting, and waiting for the investigator at the medical examiner's office to get back to me.

Good job everyone.

Darrell
Your ears musta been ringing! Some of the posters were missing you and posting about you!

Very sorry to hear that your cousin is missing....Let us know if we can help with your missing loved one. I know the people on here would help out any way they could! There are also so many resources and contacts throughout these pages here to help/support.

Dublin
10-13-2006, 04:27 PM
Hi magicrose, I have been wondering too. I guess no news is good news. If there haven't been any hits on the DNA database, that could mean Rose is still alive.
I'm new to websleuths and am not sure if I'm doing this post correct, but am so excited to have found this site.

My hope is that Rose is still alive and was wondering if there was any way to find out if any,certified copies of her birth certificate have been requested thoughout the years.

If she applied for a SS#, drivers license or any other form of identification wouldn't it be reasonable that she needed a copy of her birth certificate?

tuitsweet
10-24-2006, 03:13 PM
This UID sure remined me of Rose....anyone else?

http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/255ufok.html

tuitsweet

christine2448
10-24-2006, 03:41 PM
This UID sure remined me of Rose....anyone else?

http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/255ufok.html

tuitsweet
Very interesting.....

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/christine2448/255UFOK.jpg


Found on April 18, 1980, on a bank of the Canadian River near Jones, 20 miles NE of Oklahoma City, Oklahoma County, Oklahoma.
Cause of death was homicide. The victim was shot three times with a .45-caliber revolver.

Estimated age: 18 - 25 years old.
Approximate Height and Weight: 5'6"-5'7" (168-170 cm);120 lbs.
Distinguishing Characteristics: Light reddish/brown hair. Fair complexion with freckles on face and upper torso. Appendectomy scar. No fractures.
Clothing: None found.
Dental: Extensive dental work done, some teeth out of alignment.
Tattoos: Tattoo of small heart above left breast; heart and line in blue ink, center of heart colored with red ink.
Fingerprints: Available

tuitsweet
10-25-2006, 02:56 PM
Since Rose was in the juvenile court's system, does anyone remember if any fingerprints were taken? Could they be matched up to this UID from Oklahoma? She really looks like a good match...perhaps a dna comparision is appropriate here?

ttfn
tuitsweet

Shadow205
10-25-2006, 04:47 PM
http://s13.photobucket.com/albums/a273/shadow205/th_7a07.jpg (http://s13.photobucket.com/albums/a273/shadow205/?action=view&current=7a07.jpg&refPage=20&imgAnch=imgAnch24)http://s13.photobucket.com/albums/a273/shadow205/th_OklahomaDOE.jpg (http://s13.photobucket.com/albums/a273/shadow205/?action=view&current=OklahomaDOE.jpg&refPage=&imgAnch=imgAnch1)http://s13.photobucket.com/albums/a273/shadow205/th_3be5.jpg (http://s13.photobucket.com/albums/a273/shadow205/?action=view&current=3be5.jpg&refPage=&imgAnch=imgAnch1)

I thought I would put these up together for everyone to compare.

smile22
10-25-2006, 05:02 PM
Only thing i see wrong is the jane does nose looks to have a higher i guess arch or bone to it and roses nose looks more like the bone is slanted downward

Dr. Doogie
10-25-2006, 05:20 PM
One thing to remember is that reconstructions of UID's and age-progressions of the missing are an art, not a science. It will give you an approximation, but rarely will a picture be a perfect match.

I would be interested in a study done where pictures of non-missing are given to forensic artists for age-progressions, then compare them to the actual aged person. In other words, a picture of me at age six is given to the artist along with what my family looked like at age 48, then compare the age-progression created to what I actually look like at 48.

tuitsweet
10-25-2006, 06:52 PM
It appears to me, that the picture (a reconstructed image) has a 'blur' at the tip of her nose, or perhaps this 'specific' piece of her nose was not there ? Or it was 'smudged' when posted? Her mouth has the same shape, and her hairline/wave on the left appears very similar, I know I still have the same 'wave' I have had since a child, no matter what I try to do to my hair, it always 'goes that way' My family also has a very prominent gene, and is similiar to Rose's mouth/teeth shape, it is seen in numerous generations, very specific. and very prominent.

tuitsweet

Shadow205
11-07-2006, 04:04 PM
I started a thread at a Flint,MI forum looking for anyone who was court ordered to Synanon back in the 70's. I am sure that Rose was not the only person sent there by the court system. Maybe we can find someonelse who was sent there. He is the link to the forum:

http://www.flinttalk.com/index.php

Dr. Doogie
11-07-2006, 05:12 PM
I started a thread at a Flint,MI forum looking for anyone who was court ordered to Synanon back in the 70's. I am sure that Rose was not the only person sent there by the court system...
Great idea. Someone may have known her and have some clues as to what happened to her.

rhyno1974
11-07-2006, 07:21 PM
I know this is way out there, but do you think there is any possibility that Rose could be the "Princess Doe". I know the age is off a bit, but I do see some resemblence.

http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/36ufnj.html

christine2448
11-07-2006, 10:29 PM
I know this is way out there, but do you think there is any possibility that Rose could be the "Princess Doe". I know the age is off a bit, but I do see some resemblence.

http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/36ufnj.html
Hiya rhyno, Welcome to WS!


Says this was possibly an unidentified hotel worker that went by several aliases....I'd like to know what those were.

Age seems off by quite a bit...this girl was found in 1982...Rose would have been 26, the UID listed age range is 14-18 (how close do the stats say they come? Are there stats for this?)

I can't recall how tall Rose was, but I'm thinking tall? Someone? This doe is 5'2" to 5'4".

Did Rose have crowded lower teeth?

How about piercings?...although, this could have changed after missing...the doe's ears were pierced; her left ear was double-pierced.

rhyno1974
11-08-2006, 05:10 PM
I know of one case here in Toronto of a John Doe who was listed as under 30 years old and he turned out to be 17.

christine2448
11-09-2006, 08:49 AM
I know of one case here in Toronto of a John Doe who was listed as under 30 years old and he turned out to be 17.Yep, it's so hard on some of these because the info very well could be waaaay off you, you are so right about that.

I wish Isabela were around, so she could check it out.

And were is HOT? (HeartofTexas)

Shadow?

IsabelaPR
11-17-2006, 09:10 AM
Am still alive, live goes to fast. . .I have not forgotten. . .e-mail me a list of the things I need to follow up. . .Am currently in San Antonio, TX for a business trip. Am returning home later today. Will check on your questions on Sunday! Promise! Isa. . .

IsabelaPR
11-19-2006, 01:33 PM
Did her brother ever go to Texas? If so, when?
Pose (full name: Pose Poem Cole), the youngest brother has lived in TX most of his life. We have not been able to get in contact with him. The last communication was about 8 years ago.

Does her family have dental records on her? Had she ever seen a dentist? If they do not have dental records on her, but she had seen a dentist, what do they know about the dental work she had?
She visited the Moss Dental Clinic in Flint MI. I obtained dental records to be compared with Jane Doe in CA. These were not a match. However, her stepmother (Opal) and step sisters (Brenda & Norma) are certain that the dental records were switch at one point. They think the records I obtained are Norma’s since Rose had no dental work done. The dental work show in the records matches Norma’s dental work.

Did she have pierced ears?
No

Tattoos?
No

Any favorite jewelry she took with her? Was she partial to gold? Silver? Costume? Rings? Earrings? Necklaces? Chokers? Bracelets? Watches? Pins? Buttons?
I think Opal mentioned a ring but not much detail on this regard, everything else in your question will be a "No" but more accurate, “I don’t know”.

Did she wear glasses? Contacts? Sunglasses? Hats? Scarves? Headbands? Barrettes? Hair Clips? Ponytail?
No glasses, contacts, etc. However, the pictures I have she did wear headbands.

Was the last photo they have of her one that was taken before she left of after?
No pictures of her are available after she was sent to the Synanon

Was she the type to get a short haircut or was cutting her hair something she would never do? (in her family’s opinion)
She was complemented on her long beautiful hair. Again, all pictures available show her with long hair.

Would Synanon have forced her to get her hair cut or change her look because of some strange rule they had there?
For what we have learned about the Synanon, there is a great chance that they may have her cut her hair and even shave her head.


What was her weight and height?
I am not sure, but I know she felt as she was the tallest, long legs, etc. My son (Jesse Alexander or Little Jess), her nephew is only 10 years old and he is 5’4” already. Jesse James (her brother, my husband) is 6’3”. She could have easily been 5’7” at age 15.

Did she have any scars? Surgeries? Previously broken bones? Known medical conditions? Acne scars? Chicken pox scars?
No

Were you ever able to discover her drug of choice?
If truly using drugs, it would have been marijuana

In what states did she have friends and/or relatives?
School friend in MI, Claire. Step brother, Billy in Grand Blanc, MI. Cousin, Roxanne in Flint, MI. Norma in the UP, MI. Brenda in Decatur, AL, also in Decatur her step mom, Opal.
Brother Pose in TX
Brother Jesse in Madison, WI

Had she spoke about anyone she had met at Synanon?
One of her letters mentions a young girl of the name of Ruth. They were the youngest there.

What size clothes did she wear? Shoes?
Not sure

Was she partial to jeans? Slacks? Skirts? Dresses? Prints? Stripes? Solids?
Not sure

Do they still have any of her things? Have they checked to see if they could get finger prints off any of those items? Such as the letters? Have they tried to get DNA off of the envelope that she most likely licked closed? I know you mentioned the brother gave a DNA sample.
The only things we have are the letters. On of the envelopes was open with a letter opener, so it was still sealed. This envelope along with Jesse James DNA was provided to NCEMC. About 3 weeks ago the DNA was added to CODIS. I sent an e-mail last night to my contacts to asking for feedback.

itsreenw
11-20-2006, 12:05 AM
Good to hear the DNA was entered into CODIS. Isa, do you want me to try find Pose?

IsabelaPR
11-21-2006, 08:08 AM
Good to hear the DNA was entered into CODIS. Isa, do you want me to try find Pose?

We have tried! If you could give it a shot, that will be great!!! It shouldn't be that difficult, there is only one Pose Poem Cole in this world :) Let me know what other info will you need. All I have is his name and birthdate, along with the addresses were he used to live. The same public information you'll find online!

Isa

GraceBlue
11-21-2006, 07:48 PM
Isabela- I found an address for Pose P Cole on zabasearch.com and I sent it to you in PM.

Shadow205
12-12-2006, 09:56 AM
I started a thread at a Flint,MI forum looking for anyone who was court ordered to Synanon back in the 70's. I am sure that Rose was not the only person sent there by the court system. Maybe we can find someonelse who was sent there. He is the link to the forum:

http://www.flinttalk.com/index.php
I finally got a reply to the message that I posted at the local Flint,MI forum!!!

I RAN THE INTAKE/NEWCOMER PROGRAM IN SYNANON FOR SOME TIME DURING THE 70'S BUT ROSE'S NAME DOES NOT RING A BELL. I DO REMEMBER A FEW COURT ORDERED RESIDENTS FROM MICHIGAN, A RELATIVE OF THEN CONGRESSMAN DIGGS BEING ONE, BUT BY IN LARGE, SYNANON DID NOT ACCEPT TOO MANY COURT ORDERED RESIDENTS BECAUSE PEOPLE HAD TO BE THERE AND HAD TO WANT TO BE THERE. iF SHE WAS IN HER TEENS WHEN SHE CAME IN, THEN SHE WAS PART OF LARGE GROUP OF TEENAGERS THAT ENTERED THE PROGRAM IN THE MID 70'S.....SAY FROM 74 UNTIL 77.

christine2448
12-12-2006, 10:09 AM
We have tried! If you could give it a shot, that will be great!!! It shouldn't be that difficult, there is only one Pose Poem Cole in this world :) Let me know what other info will you need. All I have is his name and birthdate, along with the addresses were he used to live. The same public information you'll find online!

IsaCould this be him? Got this off my Net Detective

POSE P COLE 49
1957
837 BLUEBIRD DR
IRVING, TX 75061

ETA, Isabella, I found something else, not sure you'd want me to post, check your PM.

Shadow205
12-12-2006, 04:27 PM
Sounds like him to me Chris. Is this the same info that you located GraceBlue?

d.o.a. cop
12-24-2006, 12:06 PM
Hello everyone - I have been checking on from time to time. It is amazing to see how much work you have all done on the Cole case.

I have some news - for those who remember....The original overlays I had sent to the Cole family and the pics of the Jane Doe Marin County Bust that were done by Gloria Nusse - well Mrs. Nusse did some work on another case I referred her to last year. It was a three year old cold case that was solved just this week!

If interested - you can see a collection of TV reports and news print on the case at my website:

http://web.mac.com/doa.cop/iWeb/DOA.COP/Death%20Blog/88721A4B-F680-4CD7-8F3C-C687D8750695.html

I also got a call from the CA DOJ - who is trying to compare another Marin Jane Doe to the Cole case!!!!

Will take some work - but I'll do what I can do - keep you posted as much as legally can.

I am in talks with a new broadband based television series - it will be sort of an Amercia's Most Wanted for the John and Jane Doe community. We will try and crack cold case Doe cases across the nation. Can't really talk much abou the format at this time - other than to say something like this is long overdue and much needed. If you love this site - wait til this project gets off the ground!

Keep up the good work.

GraceBlue
12-24-2006, 03:18 PM
doa cop- Wow. Its amazing how Gloria can re-create someone's face from just bones with clay! Thank you for sharing that link and for the update on another Marin Co. Jane Doe being looked at into. Please do keep us updated as much as you can (legally of course.)

IsabelaPR
12-24-2006, 09:31 PM
Wow! Just visited your site! Great work! Please do keep us in the loop. . .Thank you!

And thank you all! Today is Rose's birthday, her 50th! I am not loosing hope, however, I did hope to find her before her birthday.

Rose! We love you! Happy Birthday!

Shadow205
12-25-2006, 08:56 AM
Happy Birthday Rose whever you are.

christine2448
12-25-2006, 08:40 PM
Rose! We love you! Happy Birthday!DITTO!!!!!

http://smilies.sofrayt.com/fsc/happy%20birthday1.gif http://smilies.sofrayt.com/fsc/gift.gif http://smilies.sofrayt.com/fsc/party.gif http://smilies.sofrayt.com/fsc/party5.gif http://smilies.sofrayt.com/fsc/party3.gif http://smilies.sofrayt.com/fsc/party2.gif http://smilies.sofrayt.com/fsc/party4.gif http://smilies.sofrayt.com/fsc/congratulations.gif http://smilies.sofrayt.com/fsc/cake.gif http://smilies.sofrayt.com/fsc/blow%20out%20candles.gif http://smilies.sofrayt.com/fsc/tulips2.gif http://smilies.sofrayt.com/fsc/tulips.gif http://smilies.sofrayt.com/fsc/balloons.gif http://smilies.sofrayt.com/fsc/cheers2.gif http://smilies.sofrayt.com/fsc/champagne.gif http://smilies.sofrayt.com/fsc/happy%20birthday2.gif http://smilies.sofrayt.com/fsc/happy%20birthday3.gif http://smilies.sofrayt.com/fsc/happy%20birthday4.gif

Shadow205
12-26-2006, 06:22 PM
DITTO!!!!!

http://smilies.sofrayt.com/fsc/happy%20birthday1.gif http://smilies.sofrayt.com/fsc/gift.gif http://smilies.sofrayt.com/fsc/party.gif http://smilies.sofrayt.com/fsc/party5.gif http://smilies.sofrayt.com/fsc/party3.gif http://smilies.sofrayt.com/fsc/party2.gif http://smilies.sofrayt.com/fsc/party4.gif http://smilies.sofrayt.com/fsc/congratulations.gif http://smilies.sofrayt.com/fsc/cake.gif http://smilies.sofrayt.com/fsc/blow%20out%20candles.gif http://smilies.sofrayt.com/fsc/tulips2.gif http://smilies.sofrayt.com/fsc/tulips.gif http://smilies.sofrayt.com/fsc/balloons.gif http://smilies.sofrayt.com/fsc/cheers2.gif http://smilies.sofrayt.com/fsc/champagne.gif http://smilies.sofrayt.com/fsc/happy%20birthday2.gif http://smilies.sofrayt.com/fsc/happy%20birthday3.gif http://smilies.sofrayt.com/fsc/happy%20birthday4.gif
Wow Christine, that was quite a party that you had for Rose!http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif

christine2448
12-26-2006, 11:37 PM
Wow Christine, that was quite a party that you had for Rose!http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif

Yep! I wish she could see how much she is loved!

itsreenw
12-27-2006, 01:42 AM
Pias, the owner of Hot-on-the-Trail blog (HOTT), started a series about Rose's disappearance. She contacted me and asked for info regarding Rose's case. She wanted Part I to post on her birthday.

I didn't read my messages until late the evening of Rose's birthday so she had to do Part I with very little assistance. She did a FANTASTIC job!!!Please read Part I here:

http://hot-on-the-trail-at.blog-city.com/the_mystery_of_rose_cole.htm

Isa, Pias would like to contact you regarding the rest of the series. Would you mind if I gave her your email address? PM me or email me, k.

Shadow205
12-27-2006, 09:18 AM
I'm glad that Pias was able to go ahead with the story. Isabella answered all of her guestions, that I sent to her(See post 138) back in November, Pias contacted me again needing additional information from Isabeela before finsihing up the article. I unfortunately had trouble contacting Isabella due to her Grandmother dying. I told Isabella that Pias was wanting to do the feature for Rose's birthday, evidently they were succesful at catching up with each other in time.

Great job on the story Pias!

Shadow205
12-27-2006, 09:33 AM
Way back somewhere in the thread, we talked about the churches in the nearby vicinity of Synanon helping people "Leave" there. I think that I had found that information in the book "The Light On Synanon". I think that is a direction for us to explore furthur. Rose did mention in one of the letters that someone was helping her and that they thought that she was 19 years old.

Shadow205
12-27-2006, 07:25 PM
getting some messages on the Flint,MI board:

http://www.flinttalk.com/post-7139.html#7139

Shadow205
12-27-2006, 07:32 PM
It took me forever to find Rose's letters. Once I did I thought that I would bring them up to the top for anyone new to the thread that might not ever have had the chance to read them.

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/yannette0469@sbcglobal.net/album?.dir=fb4a&.src=ph&store=&prodid=&.done=http%3a//pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/yannette0469@sbcglobal.net/my_photos

christine2448
12-28-2006, 12:09 AM
getting some messages on the Flint,MI board:

http://www.flinttalk.com/post-7139.html#7139
Interesting! Let's hope maybe someone will know something.

awagner
01-05-2007, 02:42 AM
Had anyone followed up on the possible match to 169UFPA? It sounds like Rose would have been too tall and the eye color is wrong but she has the look.. I am hoping though on the side of finding her alive...

and what about Pose? Did ya call him?

Shadow205
01-12-2007, 10:42 AM
I did a myspace page for Rose. It is a work in progress but here it is.

http://www.myspace.com/rosecole

christine2448
01-12-2007, 10:07 PM
I did a myspace page for Rose. It is a work in progress but here it is.

http://www.myspace.com/rosecole
Awesome job!!!!

http://smilies.sofrayt.com/fsc/clap2.gif http://smilies.sofrayt.com/fsc/clap.gif http://smilies.sofrayt.com/fsc/clap2.gif http://smilies.sofrayt.com/fsc/clap.gif http://smilies.sofrayt.com/fsc/clap2.gif http://smilies.sofrayt.com/fsc/clap.gif http://smilies.sofrayt.com/fsc/clap2.gif http://smilies.sofrayt.com/fsc/clap.gif

Pias
01-14-2007, 06:42 PM
Hi everyone,
I just thought I would let you know I have published part 2 of Rose's story. I will do a part 3 if there are any further developments in her case. I am working with Isabela to hopefully make some more progress in finding Rose. I am looking for the first 10 pages of her last letter if anyone knows where I can find them. I imagine Isabela will be getting back to me on that soon, but if anyone has a link to them, please pass it on. Perhaps they have gotten lost or something?? The post should help to put into context where the case stands somewhat, although I never included what possible matches have been eliminated. I know there are at least 3 possible matches currently being investigated. One in CA (a different one), NJ, and NY. The family is working to get some nuclear DNA in the voluntary database. As you probably know, there are 3 different databases for DNA. Unidentified, criminal, and voluntary. The family is also working on letters to SS and IRS. These are the things that are not mentioned in the post. This should get you up to speed on some things you may not know. I don't stop by websleuths that often so I don't know if you have any information on possible matches you are working on that you would like to share with me. If so, please stop by HOTT and send me an email or something. Just click on the flaming email on the left on the site and title your letter Rose Cole. Best wishes everyone.

http://hot-on-the-trail-at.blog-city.com/the_mystery_of_rose_cole_part_2.htm

Shadow205
01-14-2007, 07:42 PM
Just finished reading part 2 Pias. Thank you! I hope that someone who knows something will see it and make contact with someone.

Gina_M
01-14-2007, 09:03 PM
I did a myspace page for Rose. It is a work in progress but here it is.

http://www.myspace.com/rosecole
Hi Shadow,

I thought that was you :) Great job!

I'm not too familiar with Rose's case, but when I have some time, I will read more about it.

Shadow205
01-17-2007, 05:23 PM
Thanks to a poster on the Flint,MI forum where I started a thread on Rose!

Now I need to find someone who can do some research at



Repository:
University of California, Los Angeles. Library. Department of Special Collections.

Los Angeles, California 90095-1575

(http://www.library.ucla.edu/libraries/special/scweb/)Finding Aid for the Synanon Foundation Records, ca. 1956-1987

Descriptive Summary

Title:
Synanon Foundation Records, ca. 1956-1987

Collection number:
342



Creator:
Synanon (Foundation)
Extent:
564 boxes (282 linear ft.)
118 cartons (59 linear ft.)
32 boxes
Physical location:
Stored off-site at SRLF. Advance notice is required for access to the collection. Please contact the UCLA Library, Department of Special Collections Reference Desk for paging information.

Take a look at thie link for this information, I think that we might just be able to find some clue to Rose there.
http://content.cdlib.org/view;jsessionid=naTottWvhKeCiNfY?docId=tf9k4009h9&doc.view=entire_text

I think it is worth a try. If someone lives in the area and would like to spend a day digging through some old boxes. Any volunteers?

MagicRose99
01-17-2007, 07:20 PM
Why does the first paragraph at that link keep saying "excluding California"? Is that in regards to the information or something else?

<snip>
Biological and Medical Sciences --Substance Abuse --General Biological and Medical Sciences --Clinical Medicine --Psychiatry History --History, California --History, Los Angeles Area Geographical (By Place) --California --Los Angeles Area History --History, United States (excluding California) --General Geographical (By Place) --United States (excluding California)

I'm sorry, I'm in Northern CA or I'd be willing to go through the stuff for you... All the other CA WS's I know of are down here too...

itsreenw
01-18-2007, 11:33 AM
We found that a long time ago but I dont think we have any members in Southern CA.

I was skimming through the labels and found this:

[ Box 124 ]
East Ridge - The way out through Emerson - The Oversoul.

[ Box 125 ]
Emerson - Power through Enright, John B.

Emerson is the name of the school Rose went to in MI. Remember Rose was locked up after she met with the school counselor. I bet they were getting paid for sending kids there.

itsreenw
01-20-2007, 11:22 PM
I was just reviewing everything mentally and uncle Joseph getting the will is bothering me. It may not have a thing to do with Rose but I wanted to check it out anyway. I ran new records on NetDetective and now I am totally confused.

It appears that Uncle Joseph had a son that isnt sure if he was born in 1955 or 1964. In the first record (below) the "43 -1964" should appear next to Erma's name. It shows their marital status as "married".
On the record I got months ago from intellius (post #32) when Shadow205 called the uncle, it lists Erma as 69 yrs old and Uncle Joseph as 73 so I dont know if this ND info is on the son and he coincidentally married someone named Erma too or if someone is using the couples names but changed the ages.
The info is new, (see red box) from February 2006. What do you guys think?
Isa, can you ask your hubby about this? Did Joseph have a son? Would Rose have contacted him?

These records are from NetDetective:
It is not going to appear on WS as it appeared on NetDetective so I'll clarify:

Joseph A Borich 52 1955
Erma L Borich 43 1964
J Borich no birth info (just an aka for the person above)
--------------------------------
the second record shows both birth years as 1964



1)
2 http://www.standard.netdetective.net/images/new.gifBORICH, JOSEPH A (http://www.standard.netdetective.net/people_search_details.php?source=V0xQRjA4MDUuQ29uc 3VtZXJfMDMyMDA2X01J&id=2892418&person=Per1&type=name)
BORICH, ERMA L (http://www.standard.netdetective.net/people_search_details.php?source=V0xQRjA4MDUuQ29uc 3VtZXJfMDMyMDA2X01J&id=2892418&person=Per2&type=name)
BORICH, J (http://www.standard.netdetective.net/people_search_details.php?source=V0xQRjA4MDUuQ29uc 3VtZXJfMDMyMDA2X01J&id=2892418&person=Per3&type=name) 52
43

1955
1964

3221 BRENTWOOD DR
FLINT, MI 48503 810-234-0368

2)Name http://www.standard.netdetective.net/images/toggle.gif (http://www.standard.netdetective.net/people_search.php?sort=desc&step=0&id=X5cc9e24f98eaf04106db5af95456c1451169351714&subject=BORICH, ERMA &state=MI&first_name=erma&last_name=borich&middle_initial=) AgeD.O.B.AddressPhone
1 http://www.standard.netdetective.net/images/new.gifBORICH, JOSEPH A (http://www.standard.netdetective.net/people_search_details.php?source=V0xQRjA4MDUuQ29uc 3VtZXJfMDMyMDA2X01J&id=2892418&person=Per2&type=name)
BORICH, ERMA L (http://www.standard.netdetective.net/people_search_details.php?source=V0xQRjA4MDUuQ29uc 3VtZXJfMDMyMDA2X01J&id=2892418&person=Per1&type=name)
BORICH, J (http://www.standard.netdetective.net/people_search_details.php?source=V0xQRjA4MDUuQ29uc 3VtZXJfMDMyMDA2X01J&id=2892418&person=Per3&type=name) 43
43

1964
1964

3221 BRENTWOOD DR
FLINT, MI 48503 810-234-0368

All of a sudden I cant find anything on Uncle Joseph in CA through NetDetective but the info is still on Intellius. They dont always have correct info but that's where I got the info before when Shadow205 called and talked to Uncle.

Shadow205
01-23-2007, 06:11 PM
Does anyone remember if Izabella tried going though social security? Someone left this message on the Flint,MI forum suggesting we try this:

"The more I think about it, the more I think you should ask the assistance of
your closest Social Security Administration office. Let them know her parents
are deceased, and her brother is looking for his heirs. They'll need to know
parents' full names; Rose's full name, birth date and place of birth. Write Rose
a detailed letter, requesting she write or call you collect, and prepare it for
mailing (unsealed in case the SSA wants to check it). Take it with you to the
Social Security Administration with the other identity validating information you
have. If they can find her in their database they should forward your letter to
her at the last known address, and you just wait for a response. If she's been
in the database and is no longer living they should be able to tell you where to
look for the death record.

All my best wishes to you in your search. Please let us know if you find her."

christine2448
01-25-2007, 01:07 PM
Hey Shadow, *HUGS*, I have been trying to get Yannette, but she hasn't been on Yahoo at all...I hope all is well.

christine2448
01-25-2007, 01:08 PM
I was just reviewing everything mentally and uncle Joseph getting the will is bothering me. It may not have a thing to do with Rose but I wanted to check it out anyway. I ran new records on NetDetective and now I am totally confused.

It appears that Uncle Joseph had a son that isnt sure if he was born in 1955 or 1964. In the first record (below) the "43 -1964" should appear next to Erma's name. It shows their marital status as "married".
On the record I got months ago from intellius (post #32) when Shadow205 called the uncle, it lists Erma as 69 yrs old and Uncle Joseph as 73 so I dont know if this ND info is on the son and he coincidentally married someone named Erma too or if someone is using the couples names but changed the ages.
The info is new, (see red box) from February 2006. What do you guys think?
Isa, can you ask your hubby about this? Did Joseph have a son? Would Rose have contacted him?

These records are from NetDetective:
It is not going to appear on WS as it appeared on NetDetective so I'll clarify:

Joseph A Borich 52 1955
Erma L Borich 43 1964
J Borich no birth info (just an aka for the person above)
--------------------------------
the second record shows both birth years as 1964



1)
2 http://www.standard.netdetective.net/images/new.gifBORICH, JOSEPH A (http://www.standard.netdetective.net/people_search_details.php?source=V0xQRjA4MDUuQ29uc 3VtZXJfMDMyMDA2X01J&id=2892418&person=Per1&type=name)
BORICH, ERMA L (http://www.standard.netdetective.net/people_search_details.php?source=V0xQRjA4MDUuQ29uc 3VtZXJfMDMyMDA2X01J&id=2892418&person=Per2&type=name)
BORICH, J (http://www.standard.netdetective.net/people_search_details.php?source=V0xQRjA4MDUuQ29uc 3VtZXJfMDMyMDA2X01J&id=2892418&person=Per3&type=name) 52
43

1955
1964

3221 BRENTWOOD DR
FLINT, MI 48503 810-234-0368

2)Name http://www.standard.netdetective.net/images/toggle.gif (http://www.standard.netdetective.net/people_search.php?sort=desc&step=0&id=X5cc9e24f98eaf04106db5af95456c1451169351714&subject=BORICH, ERMA &state=MI&first_name=erma&last_name=borich&middle_initial=) AgeD.O.B.AddressPhone
1 http://www.standard.netdetective.net/images/new.gifBORICH, JOSEPH A (http://www.standard.netdetective.net/people_search_details.php?source=V0xQRjA4MDUuQ29uc 3VtZXJfMDMyMDA2X01J&id=2892418&person=Per2&type=name)
BORICH, ERMA L (http://www.standard.netdetective.net/people_search_details.php?source=V0xQRjA4MDUuQ29uc 3VtZXJfMDMyMDA2X01J&id=2892418&person=Per1&type=name)
BORICH, J (http://www.standard.netdetective.net/people_search_details.php?source=V0xQRjA4MDUuQ29uc 3VtZXJfMDMyMDA2X01J&id=2892418&person=Per3&type=name) 43
43

1964
1964

3221 BRENTWOOD DR
FLINT, MI 48503 810-234-0368

All of a sudden I cant find anything on Uncle Joseph in CA through NetDetective but the info is still on Intellius. They dont always have correct info but that's where I got the info before when Shadow205 called and talked to Uncle.
I absolutley hate Net Detective...I am in the process of getting my PI and I will soon, hopefully, have availalbe lots of resources that can help us on all of these cases! Net Detective is extrememly outdated. I have the Advanced one and it's still outdated.

iNTERESTEDWOMAN
01-26-2007, 02:15 AM
Hey guys, I'm new and sat here all day reading every post (+ pics, links etc) on Rose. First off, Kudos on all the hard work you all have done. I wanted to post all day, but made myself read every post before I did. LOL

First...At the very beginning (3-23-06) Shadowangel posted (1st thread post #4) that he/she found a Rose Leanna Cole graduating from a Nebraska HS. It was later determined that her actual middle name was Lena so that lead was dismissed. Well, I did a little checking today on both Classmates and Reunion.com thinking this might be a heat of the moment oversight with actual spelling and there are absolutely NO Rose Cole's listed in Nebraska period.

However there is a Rose Cole - Walls listed in Lapel, IN class of 73'. FYI

Now, my point is, if Shadowangel was correct, and there really was a Rose L Cole listed as a 73 alum in NE and now almost a year later it is gone. Maybe, just maybe someone doesn't want to be found. Just a thought. Did anyone else verify there was one listed...(it caught my eye being a husker and all)

Another observation was...I found it odd that a guy posted out of the clear blue on the Flint talk web site (who happened to be an admissions dude for Synanon during the time frame in question ), yet appeared to know nothing of the town (Flint) and down plays the practices of the court to "sentence" kids into rehab in the very establishment he worked for. I know people "Google" stuff and click on stuff randomly but he had to be looking for it. Out of curiosity I did a basic "Google" and got to page 12 and gave up trying to find a link to that site, (Flinttalk.com) based on the word "synanon". It appears to me Gary...or what ever his name was is not being on the level. IMHO

My last thought is on Pose the brother of Rose. He seems to also be trying to vanish. Isabelle said it had been 8 years? since they;ve corresponded. I wonder what his story is. My gut says he knows something.

Oh and by the way I thought this was an interesting blog:
http://blog.myspace.com/synanon

If anyone has a chance stop on over to the Tammy Sue Rothganger thread...I NEED HELP!:banghead:
Thanks. iW

gidget641
01-26-2007, 06:20 AM
Now, my point is, if Shadowangel was correct, and there really was a Rose L Cole listed as a 73 alum in NE and now almost a year later it is gone. Maybe, just maybe someone doesn't want to be found. Just a thought. Did anyone else verify there was one listed...(it caught my eye being a husker and all)

For A Profile to be missing of of the Classmates website is not all that unusual. My profile had been deleted because I have not logged onto the website in a long time (over 3 years) and I had to re-register.

I also know that if a person requests that a profile be removed. The folks at classmates do not respond very quickly. Someone had created a profile for my brother in law and he did not want it on there. It took almost 2 years of sending emails asking for the profile to be removed before it actually was deleted.

My guess is the Rose Cole that Shadowangel found just had not logged in and it was deleted.

iNTERESTEDWOMAN
01-26-2007, 12:02 PM
I hope one of you may be able to answer a few questions.

I have seen the 3rd letter written by Rose mentioned several times but I simply cannot find where the link is to read it. I've read the first 2 posted on the SIL Yahoo Photos, but the 3rd isn't there. Checked the myspace blog & could find it there either...Did I miss something or was this letter not publicly displayed?

I realized this cold case became active almost a year ago, and many of you may be burned out thinking about it...LOL but it's all new and fresh in my head:eek:.

Was the needle point lady ever ruled out?

What about the clown lady & her hubby? I personally thought there was a striking resemblance in the clown poster link posted. A few of you say no way, (maybe because she was older & heavier) but being an old lady myself, and knowing what I looked like at 15,...it happens!!:rolleyes:

Let me know. If those leads where checked out & found absolutely negative, I won't look into them more.

Shadow205
01-26-2007, 01:00 PM
Hi Interestedwoman, welcome to websleuth's and welcome to the Rose Cole thread! It is nice to have someone new take a look at what so many of us have been looking at for so long. A new perscpective is always a good thing.

You had some interesting questions/observations that I will try and answer:

In your 1st post you mention the Rose Cole that Shadowangel found on Classmates. She was there at that time, perhaps like gidget said, her profile got deleted do to lack of signing in for a period of time.

"Another observation was...I found it odd that a guy posted out of the clear blue on the Flint talk web site (who happened to be an admissions dude for Synanon during the time frame in question ), yet appeared to know nothing of the town (Flint) and down plays the practices of the court to "sentence" kids into rehab in the very establishment he worked for. I know people "Google" stuff and click on stuff randomly but he had to be looking for it. Out of curiosity I did a basic "Google" and got to page 12 and gave up trying to find a link to that site, (Flinttalk.com) based on the word "synanon". It appears to me Gary...or what ever his name was is not being on the level. IMHO"

Maybe he found it by following some link to it such as the one here. Or perhaps he wasn't for real. To be honest I'm not sure about him either so I can't really answer that one. I can tell you though that I have information connecting Rose Cole & Synanon posted at various websites.

Was the needle point lady ever ruled out?

To be honest with you, I'm not sure what happened with her and will have to go back and research that one. I'm pretty sure that an attempt of contact was made with her but I don't think that there was a reply.

What about the clown lady & her hubby?

hmmm, I don't remember that one. Could you refreash my memory?

I have seen the 3rd letter written by Rose mentioned several times but I simply cannot find where the link is to read it.

I think that I can help you with this one. lol, try this link

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/yannette0469@sbcglobal.net/album?.dir=ee68&.src=ph&store=&prodid=&.done=http%3a//pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/yannette0469@sbcglobal.net/my_photos

Now, I have a question for you. Are you Diane? I hope this helped you some. I don't think that any of us are really burned out, we just don't have much of a direction to go right now. That is why a fresh set of eyes looking at everything might just be what we need.

iNTERESTEDWOMAN
01-26-2007, 02:34 PM
Quote:
I think that I can help you with this one. lol, try this link

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/yanne...l.net/my_photos (http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/yannette0469@sbcglobal.net/album?.dir=ee68&.src=ph&store=&prodid=&.done=http%3a//pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/yannette0469@sbcglobal.net/my_photos)

Now, I have a question for you. Are you Diane? I hope this helped you some. I don't think that any of us are really burned out, we just don't have much of a direction to go right now. That is why a fresh set of eyes looking at everything might just be what we need.
*****************************************

Thanks for the welcome Shadow. No I'm not Diane, my name is Lori. You guys are probably right about the Rose Cole on Classmates. It just caught my eye because it was an NE school.

Also Thanks for the letter link. I actually had that one, but was confused. I was thinking that letter was the one HoT hand typed at the very beginning. For some reason I was looking for a letter dated 12-23-72 (Her birthday letter)

As far as the clown woman, this is the post I got that information from:

"Hey Wondering! This Rosie Cole is a brunette. Look at this picture on the Theatre of fools link. Lloyd B. teaches performance art at the City of Lakes school in Mpls. How did you determine that they are married? He is 50 years old, around the age that Rose would be now. http://www.theatreoffools.com/press_for_fools.htm"

As far as the needle point lady, her mother must have been a Rose Lena or Lena Rose. Isabelle must have called her (June 06)& she (The needle point lady) was abrupt with her & hung up... so Isa then e-mailed her, and to my knowledge she never wrote back. I can't find the post right off, but Isabelle put a quote in her post from the needle point web sight mentioning her mother Rose. Today when I went to the site, there was NO mention of mother Rose, And noticed that the sight had been updated in Sept. 06. Anyway, I wrote her again today and tried to explain the situation and pretty much begged her to let me know either way if Her Rose could be THE ROSE. I also sent her a link to this sight so IF she would happen to be THE ROSE she would know it's on the up & up.

For some reason I can't shake the feeling she's alive. I know it's highly unlikely, but I still think she's afraid. Even though Synanon the facility is shut down, Synanon the cult is still very much alive IMHO

azure
01-31-2007, 02:52 AM
Bump!

I'd like to see this one stay on pg. 1!


Kelly

smile22
01-31-2007, 07:20 AM
same here another bump for rose

T-Rex
01-31-2007, 11:17 PM
Hey guys--wild thread! I spent all day reading it!

It might be worth putting each of Rose's relatives' names, in full, on her myspace page, in case she ever does a Google search for them. I.e. "Pose Poem Cole" "Jesse James Cole," etc.

iNTERESTEDWOMAN
02-01-2007, 10:21 AM
As I posted a few days ago, I sent an e-mail to Cheryl Keddie, the "Needle point" lady of "Designs by LenaRose" http://www.lenarose.com As I stated the other day, from what Isabelle (SIL of Rose) posted back in June of 06. This web site had originally mentioned that the mother of the web owner, "Rose" had taught her to thread a needle at age 7 etc... ANYWAY, I have not received any reply from my almost desperate sounding e-mail. I don't know, but If more than one person would contact me on something of this nature, I'd reply almost immediately. Heck, even if I had something to hide, I'd make up something to get people off my back...

I did do a little checking up on this Cheryl Keddie lady on public records. There is apparently an Edward Keddie who lives at the residence with her, with his age being 63. (Though for some reason her age is not listed.) More than likely this is her husband, making her probably +/- 55 to 65 years. To old to be "our Rose's" daughter. The way I see it, if Rose did have any children, their max age would be 35.

Also, if Rose told people she was 19 when she was really 15 she could have stuck to the story when/if she ever applied for a SS# number or DL or Marriage Licence. I'm trying to check out all years between around 1952 to 56 when checking public records.

Shadow205
02-01-2007, 12:25 PM
Interestedwoman,

I thought that the needle point lady was a possible lead for Rose when that came up way back. The owner of the shop CK. didn't seem to interested in discussing that possibilty though. As I remember she never answered any of the emails.
When we were looking at that angle possibly being a cennection to Rose we also found this, I don't know if you saw it or not:

LenaRose Stitch & Threads
RR 3 Box 160
Hulbert, OK 74441
Toll Free (877) 772-2544
Fax Toll Free (877) 772-3664
website www.lenarose.com (http://www.lenarose.com/)
email cheryl@lenarose.com (cheryl@lenarose.com)
Cheryl Keddie (owner)

The above phone number is no longer good.

Shadow205
02-01-2007, 12:27 PM
This web site had originally mentioned that the mother of the web owner, "Rose" had taught her to thread a needle at age 7 etc...

I meant to also comment on the above statement. I find it very interesting that the information mentioned above is now removed from the website. Now ya got my hinky meter going off.

smile22
02-02-2007, 05:53 AM
here is the new add listed on the website


Designs by LenaRose
4 Larnis Road
PO Box 2683
Framingham, MA 01701
(508)872-7315


i am confused is this womens name lena rose or is it the other name she has listed? could lena rose be her pen name that she uses for her designs

azure
02-02-2007, 05:52 PM
I think we're looking at two possibilities with the LenaRose lady:
1. She doesn't know who our Rose Cole is and would prefer to be left alone by these online investigators.
2. Her mother is our Rose, and they are trying to keep her identity a secret.

Unfortunately, I think the first option is more likely at this point. However, since we've already contacted her by e-mail and gotten no reply, maybe we should think of other ways to go about this. We could either try to determine a first and last name of the Rose from the website and do a geneaology-type search for her, or we could have someone contact them for another purpose and try to casually throw identity-related questions into conversation. I don't really have any great ideas either way, but I do think we should probably not bombard this woman with additional "Are You Rose Cole?" e-mails until we have something stronger to go on.

Just my :twocents:.

Kelly

00SL2
02-06-2007, 12:23 AM
I don't recall seeing this reference before. See page 4 of this 6-page PDF police newsletter where there's a picture and quote of Rose Cole, bogus caller victim, "The service is excellent, I feel safe and secure at home and if I need help, all I need to do is press the red button."

http://www.tunstall.co.uk/splash/downloads/6_2_23police_newsletter_issue1.pdf

Then compare this picture to the photo of Rose in red sweater and white headband, and the one of Willie Mae 1993 in the Cole Family Pictures at (tiny URL to shorten the link):

http://tinyurl.com/29t6zg

I think there's strong feature similarity and would like to see the three pictures together. Can one of you who knows how oblige?

Shadow205
02-06-2007, 08:15 AM
OOSL2,

I looked at the picture at the link that you posted. I do not see the similarity with our Rose. I think that the Rose Cole in that picture is much older than our Rose. IMO, I would estimate that lady's age to be in her mid 70's. Our Rose just turned 50.
It was a good find though. Every Rose Cole is worth taking a look at. Welcome to WS's.

christine2448
02-06-2007, 11:08 AM
Hey guys--wild thread! I spent all day reading it!

It might be worth putting each of Rose's relatives' names, in full, on her myspace page, in case she ever does a Google search for them. I.e. "Pose Poem Cole" "Jesse James Cole," etc.
Great idea!

smile22
02-06-2007, 04:11 PM
i thought of something there are local papers we have they have like wanted adds employment stufff dating they are like free newspapers u get in the mail or delivered to your house i know in ct we have 3 free papers each of them caters to a different part of ct. i belive its free to post in those papers i wonder if we could post a looking for rose cole add in a few random ones like Mi CA places we know she has been?

00SL2
02-06-2007, 08:49 PM
OOSL2,

I looked at the picture at the link that you posted. I do not see the similarity with our Rose.How old is Rose's mother in the picture titled "Willie Mae 1993"? I was comparing the nose, the cheekbones and shadowing under the eyes, thin upper lip, teeth and smile of the PDF picture in the newsletter and photos of Willie Mae and Rose referenced above.

Shadow205
02-07-2007, 10:00 AM
I am feeling rather discouraged today. I just checked and Isabella has not signed on to WS's in almost a month.

Last Activity: 01-13-2007 05:35 PM

christine2448
02-07-2007, 12:45 PM
I am feeling rather discouraged today. I just checked and Isabella has not signed on to WS's in almost a month.

Last Activity: 01-13-2007 05:35 PM
I have emailed and IM'd her several times, with no response. I do not know what is going on.

I talked to her on the phone just about a month ago, I wish I had saved her #...will have to see if I was archiving on Yahoo.

I hope all is OK.

itsreenw
02-10-2007, 05:56 AM
i thought of something there are local papers we have they have like wanted adds employment stufff dating they are like free newspapers u get in the mail or delivered to your house i know in ct we have 3 free papers each of them caters to a different part of ct. i belive its free to post in those papers i wonder if we could post a looking for rose cole add in a few random ones like Mi CA places we know she has been?
Smile, great idea. That is exactly how I located my aunt and uncles in England and Australia. I posted a free online ad in the Ipswich Evening Star newspaper and within 3 days I was in contact with them after almost 1/2 a century of them wondering what happened to their sister. Miracles do happen.

I emailed MI State Police and asked that they add Rose to their MP list. I said that is the least the state could do for the family since their court system lost track of her. I said it nicely though. :innocent: We'll see what happens.

itsreenw
02-10-2007, 06:09 AM
I have emailed and IM'd her several times, with no response. I do not know what is going on.

I talked to her on the phone just about a month ago, I wish I had saved her #...will have to see if I was archiving on Yahoo.

I hope all is OK.Hey Christine, I'll email you the #. Gotta find it first.
Hope it's ok to share this...Pias over at Hot On The Trail (HOTT) spoke with Isa a few weeks ago. She has been very busy with immediate matters but is doing what she can behind the scenes to continue the progression of this case.
Life Happens to the best of us-know whaddamean? It'll be great for her to hear that you are concerned.

Shadow205
02-10-2007, 10:14 PM
Smile, great idea. That is exactly how I located my aunt and uncles in England and Australia. I posted a free online ad in the Ipswich Evening Star newspaper and within 3 days I was in contact with them after almost 1/2 a century of them wondering what happened to their sister. Miracles do happen.

I emailed MI State Police and asked that they add Rose to their MP list. I said that is the least the state could do for the family since their court system lost track of her. I said it nicely though. :innocent: We'll see what happens.
You know, that has been my thought since I first read about Rose. The system "lost" her IMO, the least they could do is help us find her. I'll be anxious to see if you get a reply itsreenw.

s_finch
02-14-2007, 11:39 PM
I've read most of these two threads tonight and it's amazing how caring and dilligent all of you are. Wish I had some great ideas to add but you all seem to have covered nearly every angle. Good luck and don't give up!

itsreenw
02-20-2007, 06:10 PM
You know, that has been my thought since I first read about Rose. The system "lost" her IMO, the least they could do is help us find her. I'll be anxious to see if you get a reply itsreenw. Got a message from Lt. Sipes of the MI State Police-Flint Post today. I called and left a message on his voicemail. I will post what he says as soon as I hear back from him. While I have him on the phone I am going to mention Jane Doe #1 that was found in the Flint area. She looked like Rose's mom. I will find the link a little later. Just wanted to post this before I ran out the door.

itsreenw
03-05-2007, 11:30 PM
Just an update... Got an email from Lt. Sipes saying he has been trying to contact me with no luck. He left a different phone # than the one I've been leaving messages on so I will try in the a.m. Hopefully I will have good news by tomorrow night.

Gina_M
03-10-2007, 03:05 PM
Thanks to a poster on the Flint,MI forum where I started a thread on Rose!

Now I need to find someone who can do some research at



Repository:
University of California, Los Angeles. Library. Department of Special Collections.

Los Angeles, California 90095-1575

(http://www.library.ucla.edu/libraries/special/scweb/)Finding Aid for the Synanon Foundation Records, ca. 1956-1987

Descriptive Summary

Title:
Synanon Foundation Records, ca. 1956-1987

Collection number:
342



Creator:
Synanon (Foundation)
Extent:
564 boxes (282 linear ft.)
118 cartons (59 linear ft.)
32 boxes
Physical location:
Stored off-site at SRLF. Advance notice is required for access to the collection. Please contact the UCLA Library, Department of Special Collections Reference Desk for paging information.

Take a look at thie link for this information, I think that we might just be able to find some clue to Rose there.
http://content.cdlib.org/view;jsessionid=naTottWvhKeCiNfY?docId=tf9k4009h9&doc.view=entire_text

I think it is worth a try. If someone lives in the area and would like to spend a day digging through some old boxes. Any volunteers?
Hi all,

I still have not read up on this case but I was skimming through and saw this. I live in Southern California. Do you still need someone to go check this out? I've been really busy lately but I can try to make some time to do this in the near future.

Shadow205
03-13-2007, 07:37 PM
Hi all,

I still have not read up on this case but I was skimming through and saw this. I live in Southern California. Do you still need someone to go check this out? I've been really busy lately but I can try to make some time to do this in the near future.

Gina,
That would be great if you have the time. I would like to see anything saying that Rose was there and when she left. Of course any other info that you might find mentioning her would be great too. :D

iNTERESTEDWOMAN
03-21-2007, 04:57 PM
Does anyone know if there is a timeline set up for Rose. I think I remember seeing one somewhere. I'm trying to find the approx date Rose sent the Post card from SF to her Step mom. If I remember correctly, this info didn't come out until much later, and post card was never found. Anyone help me out?

Shadow205
03-22-2007, 08:16 AM
Does anyone know if there is a timeline set up for Rose. I think I remember seeing one somewhere. I'm trying to find the approx date Rose sent the Post card from SF to her Step mom. If I remember correctly, this info didn't come out until much later, and post card was never found. Anyone help me out?

Brenda just sent me a PM after seeing your question. She said:

brenda ****: hi they were asking about the postcard i have that and the date on the card is jan 16 1973

Dr. Doogie
03-22-2007, 02:40 PM
Brenda just sent me a PM after seeing your question. She said:

brenda ****: hi they were asking about the postcard i have that and the date on the card is jan 16 1973

Shadow205:

As you may be aware, this date is of great interest to me. What was the topic of this postcard?

tuitsweet
03-22-2007, 02:55 PM
Dr Doogie,
IIRC, the postcard Rose sent to her family was actually written in Dec of 1972, but not mailed until Jan/Feb 1973, because she didn't have a stamp ??? She was asking to come home(I think?) and that she ran away from Synanon....

Dr. Doogie
03-22-2007, 03:37 PM
It is probably nothing more than coincidence, but evidently this postcard was mailed from San Francisco on the same day that Anna Christian Waters disappeared from Half Moon Bay (about 20 miles away). And Rose was known to have gone to a free clinic for treatment of a kidney infection in SF - exactly the sort of clinic that Anna's father who we suspect as being involved with Anna's disappearance worked at.

Was this postcard the last known communication from Rose?

christine2448
03-22-2007, 04:32 PM
It is probably nothing more than coincidence, but evidently this postcard was mailed from San Francisco on the same day that Anna Christian Waters disappeared from Half Moon Bay (about 20 miles away). And Rose was known to have gone to a free clinic for treatment of a kidney infection in SF - exactly the sort of clinic that Anna's father who we suspect as being involved with Anna's disappearance worked at.

Was this postcard the last known communication from Rose?


WOW, that is quite the coinkidink!

Dr. Doogie
03-22-2007, 04:56 PM
WOW, that is quite the coinkidink!

I may be chasing coinkidinks, but its better than chasing my tail (which I do a lot of on the ACW thread). LOL!

christine2448
03-22-2007, 11:18 PM
I may be chasing coinkidinks, but its better than chasing my tail (which I do a lot of on the ACW thread). LOL!


LOL...seriously though, that is really strange, that the dates line up like that, people, circumstances, I got chills when I read your post!

I have to admit, I am one that has a strong belief that nothing happens by accident, there are NO coincendences, sooooooooooooooo.....

iNTERESTEDWOMAN
03-23-2007, 08:56 AM
It is probably nothing more than coincidence, but evidently this postcard was mailed from San Francisco on the same day that Anna Christian Waters disappeared from Half Moon Bay (about 20 miles away). And Rose was known to have gone to a free clinic for treatment of a kidney infection in SF - exactly the sort of clinic that Anna's father who we suspect as being involved with Anna's disappearance worked at.

Was this postcard the last known communication from Rose?

Dr.D. This is exactly where I was going when I wrote the question. The postcard was different than the letter that was written in Dec 72. It was sent to Roses step Mom and the last communication that anyone is aware of. She only mentioned it later when things started getting heated up around here. From what I remember she either tossed it out or misplaced it, so no ones knows exactly what it says. I remember there was talk of a kidney infection in SF. In one of the previous letters she wrote that "they are treating me good". I've thought for a while that these 2 cases might be related, but I have been known to chase dead ends.

iNTERESTEDWOMAN
03-23-2007, 09:43 AM
Sorry about the multiple post. I think I'm confused. Is this a different post card written to Brenda, or is it the one Step-mom received and Brenda now has it? If Brenda has it, do you think she would tell us exactly what it says or post a pic of it like Annette did with the other letters?

Dr. Doogie
03-23-2007, 11:32 AM
I guess what is confusing me here is that the card does not currently exist, yet we know it was dated on 12/23/1972 and was sent 1/16/1973. I can see how something dated on Rose's birthday would stick in somebody's mind, but how sure are we that the postmark was 1/16/73?

The dates are of interest to me because the December 1972 date aligns closely with an incident that occured where a woman and a man attempted to lure Anna into vehicle near her home (The attempt was thwarted by Anna's brothers). Then the 1/16/73 date matches exactly the date that Anna disappeared.

One of the researchers on Anna's case has the hypothesis that whoever the abducter is may be listed as a missing person themselves - this would allow them to have gained a "daughter" without having to explain to any family or friends where this new five-year-old girl came from. The description of the woman in the car could be a description of Rose (though Rose would have been a bit younger than the woman was described). I also cannot fathom what a sixteen year old girl would want with a five-year-old girl.

The mystery deepens...

iNTERESTEDWOMAN
03-23-2007, 12:37 PM
I copied and pasted this info from the previous thread. This was an outline of the detail from her last actual LETTER, (not post card)

Letter details:

It was written on her birthday Dec 23, 1972 but mailed Feb 3, 1973 because she didn't have a stamp
A year has passed since she left to California
She describes her life in living in the streets
She can sleep ~ nightmares
Her letters have not been answered, this one is address to her Mom, the other ones where to her siblings
She talks about a baby. Billy had a baby at 19 with his girlfriend at the time~ not married ~ a lot of stress around that at home (Billy the oldest child, step brother ~ everyone including my husband loves BIlly best ~ he stood up to his stepfather Jesse Joseph and protected the other kids from bullies at school ~
Norma and Opal are the youngest ones, when the judge sentenced her, he said that he couldn't sent her home because there were two small kids (Pose & Norma) that she would put at risk
She asks for Norma's forgiveness (maybe from the letter to Pose)
She doesn't like her looks, she feels she looks like her real Mom, Willie
she talks about poor and rich people, it may be a stretch but maybe people with money ~ able to pay for prostitution?????
She want to be love, and feels guilt which is normal under the circumstances but she talks very nicely about her Dad. I find that strange! Given the fact he is the only one with access to the letters, maybe he had a heart after all.

iNTERESTEDWOMAN
03-23-2007, 12:52 PM
This is the info on the post card orginally posted by shadow205:

had a conversation with Brenda (Roses sister by adoption) who is Opal's daughter last night via instant messenger. She gave me some information that I had never heard before. The letter that Rose wrote on her 16th birthday was NOT the last one that Opal received from Rose. Opal got a post card dated 01/18/73. It was a picture of the Sunset Bay Bridge. I am not sure exactly what Rose said on the post card. Opal received another letter later in 1973 but she is unsure of when. In that letter Rose told her that she was in China Town. She said that she was sick, had a kidney infection but was afraid to go to the Doctor. She was afraid of being caught and taken back to Synanon. She told Opal that she was not going to write anymore for fear of Synanon finding her. She said that she would find Opal no matter where she was once she turned 18.

In reference to what was posted earlier about the Jane Doe in CA being ruled out based on dental records, according to Opal, Rose never had any dental work. Opal says that the only thing that Rose ever had done was routine cleaning. However, she did say that her daughter Norma, had some dental work done on her front teeth at the dentist mention above. Is it possible that Norma and Roses dental work have been mixed up?

I hope that Opal can find the last letter that she got from Rose so we can have a date. I'll post as soon as I know.

I have invited Brenda to join WS's. I know that she was reading here last night.
__________________

iNTERESTEDWOMAN
03-23-2007, 06:14 PM
What would be most excellent to know is if the post card was written on 1-16 or 1-18 of 1973. It would be AWESOME to know what it says.

I'm afraid that Roses family has either given up hope finding her, or they have figured it out and decided to respect her privacy, (Which is very understandable). IsabellePR hasn't been on for so long. Please come back and let us know what is going on. I've only been following Roses story for a few months and I already feel a bond, I can't imagine what some of the old timers on this site feel, who have done a lot of the ground work.

Dr. Doogie
03-23-2007, 07:35 PM
...Opal got a post card dated 01/18/73. It was a picture of the Sunset Bay Bridge...

I suspect that the picture was of the SF-Oakland Bay Bridge at sunset (a typical type of photo for a "touristy" card). To my knowledge, there is no "Sunset Bay Bridge" in the Bay Area. (I mention this not to nitpick, just to prevent someone from expending too much time trying to locate this bridge.)

The baby that was mentioned by Rose (you indicated that it was "Billy's"): who is Billy and was he back in Michigan or in SF area? (Sorry that I am probably asking questions that most posters here already know, but I had only been lightly following this thread until now. Thanks!)

Shadow205
03-23-2007, 07:38 PM
What would be most excellent to know is if the post card was written on 1-16 or 1-18 of 1973. It would be AWESOME to know what it says.

I'm afraid that Roses family has either given up hope finding her, or they have figured it out and decided to respect her privacy, (Which is very understandable). IsabellePR hasn't been on for so long. Please come back and let us know what is going on. I've only been following Roses story for a few months and I already feel a bond, I can't imagine what some of the old timers on this site feel, who have done a lot of the ground work.

I sent IsabellaPR an email yesterday asking her to try and stop in and give us an update if there is anything to update. If not just touch base so we know that she is still with us on in the search for Rose.
I know that Brenda still keeps up with what goes on here.

SherlockJr
03-24-2007, 11:20 PM
I started reading Rose's threads this morning and have just finished. I do not think there is any connection with Anna Waters.

One thing I want to draw your attention to is in Rose's letter to home. She talks about being in the "game" when others were telling her that Rick told them her family did not want her back home. This is on page 1 of the December 15, 1972 letter. Then somewhere in Part I, someone posted a Richard Ofshe who worked at Synanon who talked about hanging out in the cafeteria. Could the "Rick" who supposedly talked to Rose's family be the same "Richard Ofshe"? This Richard Ofshe would have been 31 years old in 1972.

I'm also discouraged by the fact the family has stopped posting. I keep hoping this is not another "Delia" case. I do want to commend everyone on the work that has been done on Rose Cole. Very impressive.

itsreenw
03-25-2007, 01:29 AM
The baby that was mentioned by Rose (you indicated that it was "Billy's"): who is Billy and was he back in Michigan or in SF area? (Sorry that I am probably asking questions that most posters here already know, but I had only been lightly following this thread until now. Thanks!)
Doogie, Billy was Rose's stepbrother. It was suggested that Rose's dad ruled the household with an iron fist. Billy was the one sibling that stood up to the dad for the other kids. He was said to be everyone's favorite brother. He was in MI with the rest of the family. Rose was asking how the baby was. I don't think she ever got to see him.

On another note, Awhile back I think I posted that I was trying to get Rose listed on the MI MP site. I got a call from a Lt. Sipes from the MI State Police.
He referred me to Sgt Hosmer, who was researching the case. Because I have been handling some personal matters, Pias from HOTT was kind enough to take over for me. She called and left a msg for him on 3/7. No word yet. I'm sure she will update me as soon as she hears back.

I have emailed Yannette but no reply.

iNTERESTEDWOMAN
03-26-2007, 04:59 PM
Check out the two photos I have linked and tell me it they look like Rose to any of you. On the Christine Shannon page there are 2 photos of her. The one with the long hair is the most stunning to me. Compare them with all the Rose pictures and let me know what you think. I realize the birth dates are 6 months off, but still, I about fell off of my seat when I saw her.

Also, after many hours of research, I found it to be semi common for Peoples Temple members to turn to the Synanon, and vice versa. Actually some survivors of Jonestone spent time with the Synanon after the murder/suicide in Guyana. (Some for several years until the synanon shut down) Some people who escaped the synanon in the early 70's found refuge at the SF Peoples Temple compound. Some say there was a power struggle/ rival between Jones and Dederich

Rose
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/yannette0469@sbcglobal.net/detail?.dir=246a&.dnm=c0b6.jpg&.src=ph

Christine
http://jonestown.sdsu.edu/AboutJonestown/WhoDied/bio.php?Id=63

iNTERESTEDWOMAN
03-27-2007, 09:39 PM
Wow, no one has checked out the pics yet? :( Everyone must be at the ANS thread, that section seems to get a lot of sleuthing done on it.:doh:


Well, Christine checks out negative, as far as public records go. I found her birth records and did a lot of research on her family. She appears to be the youngest biological "Talley" sibling of 5 adults (4 sisters and 1 brother) who went to Jonestown together with 4 kids. (Children of 2 of the sisters).

Oddly she turns out to be the aunt of a girl named Georgianne Brady (DOB 12-23-65) that I thought a while back resembled Anna Waters. What's really wild is thats Georgianne's B-day is Rose's B-day with the year transposed. (I didn't notice that weeks ago)

The weirdest part is this supposed bio-family of 9 went to Guyana around the same time but each had a different date of entry except for 2 cousins. Georgianne was the first to go and was there 12 days before her mother or any other family ever got there. All of the children where there before their parents and 2 of the kids where there 3 months before their mother got there. Really makes you wonder if these where really their children and how much Jones got away with as far as birth records and passports, adoptions etc...

Guess what I'm trying to say is I'm not convinced by California Birth records that Christine is not Rose. I also think that Rose and Anna Waters both ended up in the Peoples Temple, (I wrote my theory on Anna on her thread)...This particular "Talley" family may or not be part of the picture but until I can find someone who will talk to me I can't rule it out. I'm always looking at other options.

Shadow205
03-27-2007, 09:55 PM
http://jonestown.sdsu.edu/AboutJonestown/WhoDied/Bios/Photos/63_1.jpg
I see some similarities. Do you know the date on the picture of this Christine?
I can assure you that I am not on the ANS thread. I wish some of these other cases could get a fraction of the attention that is getting. Such a waste of media time to go over the same thing over and over.

iNTERESTEDWOMAN
03-28-2007, 12:46 PM
http://jonestown.sdsu.edu/AboutJonestown/WhoDied/Bios/Photos/63_1.jpg

I see some similarities. Do you know the date on the picture of this Christine?

I can assure you that I am not on the ANS thread. I wish some of these other cases could get a fraction of the attention that is getting. Such a waste of media time to go over the same thing over and over.

:rolleyes: I was being a smarty pants wasn't I? ...my bad. But geez, there's 40 to 70 people viewing that thread at any given time, good grief. ANYWAY...

Most all of the B&W pictures that they have on Jonestown.sdsu are passport pictures I believe I read somewhere. It's really hard to say when any of them actually got their passports, some could have done it weeks to months before the fact. Most every person has 2 pictures. A black & white and a color photo, though some only have one. Many of the pics look like they are taken years apart judging by hair length etc. So NO, I don't have a clue.

iNTERESTEDWOMAN
03-28-2007, 12:57 PM
Another sad note I have to point out is several hundred people where never identified. The number varies from report to report, but in the 200-400 range, and mostly Children. They where all buried in a mass grave in Oakland, CA (Where the majority of them came from). Though a brighter note, many also survived, and have since changed their names to avoid any contact from people like me who want to know more. It's funny, but if you start e-mailing people who have written books, or articles about surviving Jonestown, none of them will reply when you start asking questions about the children, and how they all came to be there.

mjak
03-28-2007, 03:06 PM
Wow, Intrestedwoman!!!
I have been looking at he pictures and comparing and I think the resembalnce is amazing. I believe Rose and Christine are either the same person or look
incredibly a like. Great job Intrested woman.

mjak

mjak
03-28-2007, 08:01 PM
Wow, Intrestedwoman!!!
I have been looking at he pictures and comparing and I think the resembalnce is amazing. I believe Rose and Christine are either the same person or look
incredibly a like. Great job Intrested woman.

mjak

Okay, I am now responding to my own post, lol. Why is no one responding to this. The resemblance between Christine and Rose is amazing. I have seen lots of possible match phots put up at websletuhs on various threads and I do not ever recall seeing anything as similar as these pictures. Where is everyone?????

mjak

azure
03-28-2007, 09:51 PM
For my part, I think they look nothing alike. Sorry guys.

Kelly

christine2448
03-28-2007, 11:40 PM
I sent IsabellaPR an email yesterday asking her to try and stop in and give us an update if there is anything to update. If not just touch base so we know that she is still with us on in the search for Rose.
I know that Brenda still keeps up with what goes on here.


Hey Partna!

Last time I spoke to Yannette her computer was down at home, she can't do WS at work, if IIRC....I found her phone, maybe I should give her a ring, let me know if you don't get a reply.

christine2448
03-28-2007, 11:44 PM
http://jonestown.sdsu.edu/AboutJonestown/WhoDied/Bios/Photos/63_1.jpg



I see some similarities. Do you know the date on the picture of this Christine?




http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/christine2448/th7a07.jpghttp://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/christine2448/ChristineRose.jpghttp://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/christine2448/3be5.jpg

They look similar to me.

christine2448
03-28-2007, 11:48 PM
Okay, I am now responding to my own post, lol. Why is no one responding to this. The resemblance between Christine and Rose is amazing. I have seen lots of possible match phots put up at websletuhs on various threads and I do not ever recall seeing anything as similar as these pictures. Where is everyone?????

mjak


NO KIDDING, I missed it MJ.....been homeschooling, boss had bad accident, just passed my case investigator test and got my 1st assignment (UNDERCOVER!!!)....I totally missed this!

I have been pulling Rose's case together (working offline), jeesh, 2 months now, in between work and life, LOL...hoping once I get it organized they will give us a forum, or move it some where, it is all so confusing like this!

It may all be unneeded....

christine2448
03-28-2007, 11:53 PM
Wow, no one has checked out the pics yet? :( Everyone must be at the ANS thread, that section seems to get a lot of sleuthing done on it.:doh:


Well, Christine checks out negative, as far as public records go. I found her birth records and did a lot of research on her family. She appears to be the youngest biological "Talley" sibling of 5 adults (4 sisters and 1 brother) who went to Jonestown together with 4 kids. (Children of 2 of the sisters).

Oddly she turns out to be the aunt of a girl named Georgianne Brady (DOB 12-23-65) that I thought a while back resembled Anna Waters. What's really wild is thats Georgianne's B-day is Rose's B-day with the year transposed. (I didn't notice that weeks ago)

The weirdest part is this supposed bio-family of 9 went to Guyana around the same time but each had a different date of entry except for 2 cousins. Georgianne was the first to go and was there 12 days before her mother or any other family ever got there. All of the children where there before their parents and 2 of the kids where there 3 months before their mother got there. Really makes you wonder if these where really their children and how much Jones got away with as far as birth records and passports, adoptions etc...

Guess what I'm trying to say is I'm not convinced by California Birth records that Christine is not Rose. I also think that Rose and Anna Waters both ended up in the Peoples Temple, (I wrote my theory on Anna on her thread)...This particular "Talley" family may or not be part of the picture but until I can find someone who will talk to me I can't rule it out. I'm always looking at other options.


WOW! Excellent sleuthing! http://smilies.sofrayt.com/fsc/clap2.gif


But, I am so confused.....I need to reread this when I am more awake!

mjak
03-29-2007, 07:35 AM
NO KIDDING, I missed it MJ.....been homeschooling, boss had bad accident, just passed my case investigator test and got my 1st assignment (UNDERCOVER!!!)....I totally missed this!

I have been pulling Rose's case together (working offline), jeesh, 2 months now, in between work and life, LOL...hoping once I get it organized they will give us a forum, or move it some where, it is all so confusing like this!

It may all be unneeded....

Take a deep breath Christine and relax. Sounds like you have a lot on your
plate. Congrats on passing your test!! Will you be working with Law Enforcement or as a Private Investigator. What ever you are doing be careful out their. I was so excited staring at those pictures of Rose and Christine. I am hoping this is not Rose because of course this would be a very sad resolution. However, it would give her family an answer. The resemblance is amazing if it is not Rose.

mjak

iNTERESTEDWOMAN
03-29-2007, 12:07 PM
For my part, I think they look nothing alike. Sorry guys.

Kelly

Thanks for your honest answer. Could you be so kind as to point out the differences you see? Maybe I'm not seeing the forest for all of the trees.

Shadow205
04-01-2007, 06:09 PM
http://jonestown.sdsu.edu/AboutJonestown/WhoDied/Bios/Photos/63_2.jpg

Brenda asked that I post the other picture. She said that she thinks this one looks more like Rose.
Brenda: i do see something in the pictures is there any way to find out what color her eyes were and how tall she was that would help a lot the pictures are in black and white what color her hair was
brenda holt: oh if you could post the other picture is looks more like her i think

iNTERESTEDWOMAN
04-11-2007, 11:40 PM
BUmping up for Rose. I sure wish Brenda, or someone would give us some more information on that post card...like the exact date it was sent & what it said...PLEASE??? With sugar on top??

Jaded
04-21-2007, 06:24 PM
http://someoneknowsme.com/upload/index.php?showtopic=58&st=0&#entry335

A friend of mine has posted some info re: Synanon that you might find useful.

iNTERESTEDWOMAN
05-01-2007, 05:57 PM
Bumping for Rose. Please, if any of her family ever reads here anymore, PLEASE give us an update. I think about Rose often, but feel there must have been developments that the family is unable to share.

Mysticchic
05-01-2007, 11:50 PM
Hi I'm new to WS. I just read this whole thread. My sister works in the courts up in Flint Mi. I can see if she can get any answers. Is there a timeline? That would help alot. thanks

itsreenw
05-02-2007, 02:23 AM
Hi I'm new to WS. I just read this whole thread. My sister works in the courts up in Flint Mi. I can see if she can get any answers. Is there a timeline? That would help alot. thanks

PLEASE get her to help us!! I contacted the Genessee County Courts months ago to ask for assistance in determining whether or not Rose and/or a parent was present in court when a Petition to have her case dismissed was requested and approved. There is a copy of the document here:

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/yannette0469@sbcglobal.net/my_photos

The form clearly states that a person was present. That info is part of the standard form but I was told that there are no records available from the 70's and it was possible the letter was mailed out because Rose had reached the age to where the case could be dismissed. The clerk also said the letter was probably mailed to Rose's parents because the length of time of her sentence had already passed.

I didn't think that was logical since Rose ran away from her court appointed rehab. Seems there would be some additional punishment for running away instead of dismissing the case because she was able to stay 'missing' until the end of her sentence.

Please have your sister find out whatever she can. That document may be the key to finding out if Rose made it back to Flint.

christine2448
05-02-2007, 08:44 AM
Hi I'm new to WS. I just read this whole thread. My sister works in the courts up in Flint Mi. I can see if she can get any answers. Is there a timeline? That would help alot. thanks


Welcome to WS! Thank you for your offer to help. This would be wonderful!


Itsreen...hey girlie! Long time no talk :blowkiss:

iNTERESTEDWOMAN
05-02-2007, 03:35 PM
Hi I'm new to WS. I just read this whole thread. My sister works in the courts up in Flint Mi. I can see if she can get any answers. Is there a timeline? That would help alot. thanks

Welcome to WS. It would be super if your sis could do a little investigative work!

Just in case you didn't see it:
here is the link to the first Rose Cole thread: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37727
__________________
Short version of a time line:
April 1, 1971 Rose ran away, she was found and release to mother's custody (Flint, MI)
April 2, 1971 Court Date (Flint, MI)
April 21, 1971 Rose was assigned a parole officer (Lois Sullivan)
Sent to Jackson Juvenile facility
Sept. (?) 1972, at the age of 15, she was sent to Synanon Foundation in Oakland, CA by order of the Flint MI court
Oct 15, 1972 First letter from the Synanon
Nov 17, 1972 Second letter from the Synanon
Dec 15, 1972 Third letter - She indicated that she had ran away from the Synanon
Dec 23, 1972 Wrote Fourth letter - Her 16th Birthday
Jan ?, 1973 Sent a post card to her step mother.
Feb 3, 1973 Mailed fourth letter - "Sorry but I just got a stamp!", she wrote.
Jan 4th 1974 Petition to the court of Michigan was granted to drop all charges, she was 17
(This petition stated that Rose was present at the hearing...but one one had seen or heard from her since her last letter in 73. Was she in Flint or was this a coverup by the court???)

christine2448
05-03-2007, 10:50 PM
Excellent news, I finally heard from Yannette! We spoke via tele this evening.

She has the number we have been waiting for and she is emailing me...she just got it a few days ago.

A few developments:

Yannette got hooked up with some lady from CA DA office, this lady called Oakland PD and the ball got rolling and that's how they got the #.

Possible UID, I will have more info on this tomorrow, right now, all I know is it's in MN, 1987, PD is not doing a thing to investigate, there is some police officer in jail that confessed to murdering this UID.....again, I am waiting for all this info via email.

2nd, Yannette has met up with someone that grew up with Rose's mom and has learned some more info, will post when I receive this info also.

Yannette has been very busy and thinking of us all, her computer has been down, and just life has been, we all can understand.

Sometimes there are just lulls in cases....now things, hopefully are picking up.

Yannette has already given Gerry Nance the # and a new case # also has been created, if IIRC, in relation to her missing case.

I should receive everything via email from Yannette and I will relay the info as I get it.

OH, and Yannette has created a PPT and is going to send me via snail mail, I will redistribute to whoever emails me at caseinvestigator@charter.net w/physical address to mail to.

Maybe this is going to pick up again people.....start praying!!!!

christine2448
05-03-2007, 10:53 PM
Dang I forgot to tell Yanette about the poster in Flint MI willing to research.....will email her this.

christine2448
05-03-2007, 10:59 PM
Someone explain this Christine picture to me? I'm not getting it, what am I missing???? They look alike, what's the story?

Lay it out.

christine2448
05-03-2007, 11:10 PM
Missing People Unit ROSE L COLE CASE # 07-017109

Mysticchic
05-04-2007, 12:22 AM
Thanks all for the warm welcome. My sister has agreed to help out.
A little background that I can share with you. I was in the system in MI around 1973-1974 and back then there was no one that spoke for the children. I was a runaway also. Mostley to save my life. Didn't matter, you went to juvy. I was sent to the one in Wayne county. Not a nice place to be when your 13-14 years old.
I was assigned a lawyer, who basicly went with me to the court and agreed with anything my parents and the judge wanted to do with me. If someone wants to call me and find out more from me PM me and I will give you my phone number. I was sent to a childrens home. I stayed in the system until I was 17 years old. I'll be up for a while longer if you want to talk tonight.

iNTERESTEDWOMAN
05-04-2007, 05:37 PM
Someone explain this Christine picture to me? I'm not getting it, what am I missing???? They look alike, what's the story?

Lay it out.

Hey Christine, first off I want to say I have read many of your posts over the last several months and I really like your attitude. Just put it out there and lay it on the line! (I don't like secrets very well either!!)

The picture of Christine is of a woman who was a follower of Jim Jones and the Peoples Temple. She followed him to Jonestown in Guyana from the Oakland/San Francisco area. She is the youngest of 5 adult sibling who all followed him there. According to birth records and her passport records she was born 6-22-57. She was 21 when she died. Her maiden name was Talley, then she must of married a man with the last name of Bowers. There is no record of her husband joining them.

There are many discrepancies in the records for this family. All of her siblings are a lot older than her. The Talley name is often spelled Tally. Birth records for each family member have slightly different spelling variations for their given names and are often transposed or altered slightly.

Jim Jones was notorious for taking on any one who could benefit him and had several homes he filled with elderly, orphans, and homeless. If they could receive a SSI check, he'd take them and he knew how to create records to suite his needs.

In one letter Rose wrote that "They are taking care of me" and suggested that she had a roof over her head. She also indicated she walked the streets during the day. These where patterns of the Peoples Temple. Jones would have them out peddling what ever they could sell to make more money during the day, and give them a bed at night.

Also it appears that a few survivors of the Peoples Temple ended up in the Synanon after the PT mass murder/suicide. These 2 groups seemed to attract the same type of people. Either group was all to happy to snatch up a fallen victim of the other. I've written more on Christine in above resent posts.

I think she looks a lot like Rose, and so far can not find anything to completely rule her out.

ETA: I've written this before, and out of respect to the Anna Waters family as they await DNA results, I won't go into detail again, but I think there is a possibility Anna might have been with this family/group of people. There is just to many strange coincidences...HOPEFULLY I AM WAY OFF BASE

christine2448
05-04-2007, 10:26 PM
Hiya Interested.....I have read your posts too ;) Thank you.

Thanks a heap for all that 'splainin'. I had read that about the Jones stuff, duh, I 'clapped' for you and said good sleuthing, then meant to get back to it (once ya get to know me, you learn my nickname is Dory and that I have memory probs)...good theory. Very interesting. The pictures look close enough to do more investigating, IMO.

I think the AW and RC cases may be related also, slim chance, but the possibility is there...I always say 'no stone unturned', you just never know where clues will lead you.

There are quite a few connections, IIRC. I am trying to get this case up on it's own forum so we can organize and we will surely have a thread the Anna Waters case and Rose Cole's case similarities.

HeartofTexas
05-18-2007, 10:31 PM
Bumping the case up closer to the top so it's easier to find.

Welcome to WS, Mystic! And thanks for your kind offer to help. When you talk to your sister, I would love to find out how many other kids in the Flint area were also sent to Synanon for drug abuse and what kind of follow-up system Flint had in place to see how these young kids fared. In retrospect, it's absolutely appalling to realize the Court system in Flint sent a young girl all the way to California with no kind of follow-up to see if she was okay. And, conversely, that Synanon was somehow allowed to get away with not informing the Court system in Flint that Rose had indeed left their program.

Unrelated to Rose's case, but I would love to know how much money various Court systems across America poured into Synanon's coffers before they were finally closed down. For any of you who haven't done research on Synanon, it's definitely an eye-opening experience.

HeartofTexas
05-18-2007, 10:34 PM
Interested, it's amazing that you found the very same picture of the Talley girl that I did! I even emailed it to another poster here and pointed out the resemblance to Rose. I had no idea someone else had found the same picture. I forget now why I finally decided it wasn't her... but I believe that was my final conclusion. But the resemblance was quite striking.

iNTERESTEDWOMAN
05-19-2007, 09:41 AM
Interested, it's amazing that you found the very same picture of the Talley girl that I did! I even emailed it to another poster here and pointed out the resemblance to Rose. I had no idea someone else had found the same picture. I forget now why I finally decided it wasn't her... but I believe that was my final conclusion. But the resemblance was quite striking.


HoT, I have recently come into contact with a VERY nice man who is the director of the Jonestown Institute in San Diego, CA. He has forwarded my e-mails to several different survivors and ex-Peoples Temple members. Many of them know this family very well, and claim they are all who they say they are....Except little is know of Christine. She was several years younger than the rest of her siblings, and does not have some of the same facial features the rest of the family share. I'm beginning to think Christine is not Rose...but I have not (in my mind) ruled it out as of yet.

I wonder if Rose was an animal Lover kind of girl. While at Jonestown, Christine was a food server, (like Rose was in the Syanon) and also worked in the Animal Shelter with small animals and livestock. She lived in the dorm with others who also where in charge of animals. Maybe someone who knew Rose can shed some light on Roses love, (or not) for animals.

Also her place of birth differs from CA birth records and PT records.

christine2448
05-19-2007, 09:56 AM
Hiya Peeps!

Sorry for the lack of posting in the last, well, a good bit...on a lot of our parts.....


Listen...there are quite a few things going behind the scenes the last 30 or so days. We haven't been posting because nothing is concrete and we still need everyone to keep talking, researching etc.


We have NOT found Rose, we are NOT close to finding Rose. However, there may be some amazing people getting involved that have resources we can not even begin to get our hands on.

I will keep you posted as I know more.

I have been in contact and working with Yanette, Shadow, and HOT.

Thank you everyone for what you are doing...people have noticed!

YOU ARE MAKING A DIFFERENCE!

ALL OF YOU!

christine2448
05-19-2007, 10:00 AM
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/christine2448/th7a07.jpghttp://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/christine2448/ChristineRose.jpghttp://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/christine2448/3be5.jpg

They look similar to me.

They look similar, I should have continued, but the face is not as round...I don't think this is the same person. But they do look similar. If I saw this girl and Rose walking down the street I and didn't know them would say they could pass for relatives. Also, I have been looking at all of the pictures we have of Rose and the family ALOT the last few weeks and now I look at that picture and it doesn't fit for me.