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View Full Version : OR OR - Cave Junction, "Annie Doe" WhtFem 404UFOR, 16-20, Near Redwood Hwy, Aug'71



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Khavna
07-07-2006, 09:49 PM
I know it's a long shot but it believe that these two cases are somewhat similar what do you think?

this is the missing person
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/889dfca.html

this is the jane doe
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/404ufor.html

Khavna
07-07-2006, 10:00 PM
i'm trying to get better pictures :innocent:

gatetrekker44
07-07-2006, 11:27 PM
except for the age-but since the remains were skeletal there could be a discrepancy. The time frame is right and so is the area-I would DEFINITELY go ahead and contact the Doe Network with the info-good catch Khavna!

Khavna
07-07-2006, 11:43 PM
except for the age-but since the remains were skeletal there could be a discrepancy. The time frame is right and so is the area-I would DEFINITELY go ahead and contact the Doe Network with the info-good catch Khavna!yeah i know they even look the same! Debra's case is my 'pet-case' the age on the doe itself could be wrong you know! i just need a little more proof firstly but thanks for your feedback

actually the time frame is eerily correct as well as the height, weight and look how do you contact the doe network? :truce:

lilsister
07-08-2006, 12:31 AM
Does look like a good match...here is why it might not be:

Jane Doe

The victim was discovered on August 19, 1971 in Josephine County, Oregon
Estimated Date of Death: July 1, 1971

totally agree w/ you but..the clothing on the body...

Lovable bra (size 34-B); blue Wrangler jeans (size 13-14 misses slim);



Debra T. Psholka

Age at Time of Disappearance: 12 years old
Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 5'6"; 125 lbs. (57 kg

The size of her jeans, though, makes me think it is not a match...she was only 12 when she went missing and probably not that size but who knows....I still think you should consult the DoeNetwork. The age differance may not be that significant due to decompostion.

Khavna
07-09-2006, 07:51 PM
only because her estimated time of death is eerily the same time frame that Debra went missing, her jean size could be way out however, i've known some 12 year olds to wear bigger jeans so they can be baggy and 'cool' same with the bra size some girls develop more than others and being 12 is no exception
how do you contact the doenetwork? :banghead:

Debra and the Jane Doe share the same height, weight and eerily (to me at least) the same facial structure and looks (exspecially the hair colour) :dance:

dannyodie
07-09-2006, 09:03 PM
only because her estimated time of death is eerily the same time frame that Debra went missing, her jean size could be way out however, i've known some 12 year olds to wear bigger jeans so they can be baggy and 'cool' same with the bra size some girls develop more than others and being 12 is no exception
how do you contact the doenetwork? :banghead:

Debra and the Jane Doe share the same height, weight and eerily (to me at least) the same facial structure and looks (exspecially the hair colour) :dance:
does any of the clothing found with the remains match what this child had on the night she went missing? seems like the patholigest deemed the remains to be approx. 19 yrs old or there and about? if dental and dna is available for both of these findings could any of that be used? contacting the doe network might be a good idea, or even the le agency handeling this childs case might get things going. one more question for some of you sleuthers. where was joseph edward duncan at that time frame, and how old would he have been around that time?

Khavna
07-09-2006, 09:54 PM
does any of the clothing found with the remains match what this child had on the night she went missing? seems like the patholigest deemed the remains to be approx. 19 yrs old or there and about? if dental and dna is available for both of these findings could any of that be used? contacting the doe network might be a good idea, or even the le agency handeling this childs case might get things going. one more question for some of you sleuthers. where was joseph edward duncan at that time frame, and how old would he have been around that time?I have not a clue what clothes Debra was wearing at the time she was missing, i have looked for these and have come up with nothing at all :banghead: the 19 year old age is an estimate they have not concluded what her real age is yet. :) there is dental records for Debra but no DNA i don't think. to me i think there is a possibility it could be her :angel:

i have looked at the websites of national missing children and the charley project to locate a case in 1971 of a missing person round the same age as the Doe there is NO match not even a slight resemblance NOTHING to any missing persons case in Oregon :snooty:

so there is a possibilty that she came from california (afterall she was found near the Oregon-California border) and she had some clues on her that she was from California as well

txsvicki
07-14-2006, 12:12 PM
I'm not so sure about that pant size and the weight. I've never heard of a size 13/14 slim and pant sizes are usually either odd for junior sizes or even for misses sizes. If a girl were size 14, she could have weighed up to 150 lbs. Back then in 1971, girls wore jeans that fit with the bell bottom legs. Surely there are records of what the little girl was wearing when last seen and what sizes she wore especially in bra and pants.

Khavna
07-14-2006, 07:16 PM
yes there will be records of what she was wearing, however where are they? i cannot find any at all :banghead:

mom3dd
07-14-2006, 07:42 PM
Did you find out how to contact Doe network? They look similar enough not to feel like your bothering anyone.

Khavna
07-14-2006, 07:56 PM
Did you find out how to contact Doe network? They look similar enough not to feel like your bothering anyone.
No i didn't because noone will help by telling me how to do this for me :doh: what do you mean by the last statement?

anthrobones
07-14-2006, 10:25 PM
I think this is how you submit potential matches:

Go to to www.doenetwork.us (http://www.doenetwork.us)

Click on Contact Us. (in left hand column)

Click on Potential Match Database (in the first box, last link in left column)

Click on Rocky Wells

Khavna
07-14-2006, 11:11 PM
thank-you anthrobones i have submitted it into the doenetwork so i'm just waiting for a reply from them some time soon. goosh i hope i'm right and have finally found her

ohh, joseph edward duncan would have been 8 years old when she went missing, i very much doubt that he had anything to do with her disaperance at all, although you can get child-killers nowadays

dreamweaver0047
09-11-2008, 04:41 PM
Was there any resolution to this potential match. I apologize if it has already been posted somewhere.

I am a newbie at this but I've been looking at the UID in Josephine Co. Oregon.

Thanks!
Michelle

Tonia
05-22-2009, 01:38 PM
There is a lady who went missing around this time and i just read an article stating that they had found a body 2 months after she went missing and that they were collecting to dna to see if it is her. The question i have is if they found this body 2 months after she went missing in 1971 which is the way the article read,what took so long?There is a video at the link that shows her but it's kinda hard to tell and this is the only doe i could find from Oregon is the one you posted above.

http://www.wkyt.com/home/headlines/45840667.html

starburst
03-09-2011, 05:32 AM
http://www.lbth.org/ncma/gallery/ncmaprofile_all.php?U200400004S

There is no Namus file on this person that I can find.

Found in Oregon, 1971.

Possible Match:

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/s/shelton_sue.html

Martha Sue Shelton.


The picture in the reconstruction is showing her with reddish hair, but her hair is described as brown in the description. The picture in her missing/Charley Project profile is not a good picture.

What struck me: The rings.....both described as Ring with blue stone and braided silver band and regular band ring was also located. Im not sure what the initials in the ring might stand for.Its exactly as it is in Charley. Also, the missing report and the Jane Doe report say the deceased had highlights in her hair.

Has anyone else heard anything on either of these cases? Since its not in Namus I cant see if anyone has submitted anything. I have not submitted anything but would love to see pictures of the rings.

dsntslp
03-09-2011, 08:02 AM
Starburst,
It looks like a good possibility to me!
I'm sure some of the more knowledgeable posters will be in to check it out soon!

I wonder if her missing husband may even be close by to where her remains were found.
The car was never recovered. I wonder if local waters were searched for the car and if his remains might be in the car.

So many questions...

Thanks for the possible Match, it looks promising !! :)

ETA: Wow, the UID was found in OR. If this is a match her husband could be anywhere as well.

starburst
03-15-2011, 11:43 PM
Yes he very well could be, however, my theory was I wonder if they got into a spat, he killed her, and panickd and decided to run. Oregon, on way to Canada. He may be alive and well and just hiding. Would be worth a search back to where she was found, if it was her.

starburst
11-15-2011, 06:15 AM
Has anyone followed up on this possible match or heard if anyone is investigating this possibility? Just curious! Thanks.

LeighAnnR
02-28-2012, 02:11 PM
I received this response from the Jospehine County Sheriif's Dept re: This Annie Doe and Sue Shelton from KY.


"Thank you for passing on the below information. We reviewed and have actually followed up on this lead before and unfortunately the DNA is not a match. If you find any additional possible matches please feel free to forward them on to us. We appreciate the assistance."

Last I checked Annie Doe was NOT entered into NAMUS.


LAR

deca
04-22-2012, 12:26 AM
Is there a list of rule outs?

I have a few people in mind...

deca
07-01-2012, 12:18 PM
For those of you not from the PNW, Joesphine Co has had HUGE cutbacks and has had to close down the major crimes unit, records unit, etc. So attempting to get additional info for cases like this one might be very difficult.

I have not seen any pictures of the jewelry. Originally I thought that the "AL" scratched onto the blue stone was scratched by hand by the victim or someone close to her. But I am wondering now could the description be poorly worded and it is a class ring of some sort? AL could stand for Abraham Lincoln (like Abraham Lincoln High School). The victim is right around the age where she might have something like that. I have never seen anyone scratch something into a stone (the metal yes, but not the stone) except for professional class rings which occasionally do this. BUT, this would be a big boo-boo on the part of LE not to mention that this was a class ring so that makes this theory less likely, IMO.

deca
07-01-2012, 12:26 PM
To give some non-locals some background about the area...

There are a LOT of campgrounds, hiking trails, picnic area, lakes and rivers around southern Oregon. Every year there are ten of thousands (if not more) people coming through to enjoy the outdoor activities. Because of the nice weather and outside area to camp in, we also get a lot of homeless people in the summer months.

Given that Annie Doe had a map in her possession, it is simple to deduce that she was here or passing through here, perhaps staying overnight in campgounds as a way to save money. I don't think she is camping as a vacation, though, based on her clothes.

Not many people do this on their own, especially not a woman of this age. Since her companion(s) have not spoken up, I am guessing they had a part in her death.

deca
07-01-2012, 12:43 PM
One last little bit of info:

milepost 35 is just south of Cave Junction, OR. I was just here last week. Redwood Hwy (Highway 199) goes from the coast of northern CA, beginning around Crescent City, CA, and goes through the redwood forests up into Oregon in a northeast type direction. Between Crescent City (IIRC) and Cave Junction it is more than an hour drive with nothing really but trees and an occasional campground. In other words, very deserted.

Given that Annie Doe had a map of CA in her pocket, we can guess that she came from that state and was traveling northerly up into OR. So why dispose of her there? Why not in the previous 60 miles plus of forest? Because her dump site is just a few miles south of Cave Junction, which is a small town but still- an area with people. So, maybe she was actually traveling south from central or southern oregon and this place was the first place someone felt they could hide her?

It is also possible she was trying to hitch a ride to the coast. But why is no one looking for her?

JMO. sad that there is nothing going on in this case.

kdsmith21
01-13-2013, 08:06 PM
I thought she was a perfect match for Martha Sue Shelton as well. The jewelry matches, height, time frame, hair... oh well , if the DNA don't match, guess not. ;-( But did anyone notice that the Does clothing doesn't seem to match dying in May 1971 or July 1971 which is what they estimated. Turtleneck, coat, etc... seems like weather was colder than May or July...

deca
01-13-2013, 09:13 PM
Actually I wouldn't put much store in the "warmness" of the clothes. Quite often in this area it gets brisk at night in the summer. Average daily low is around 50 degrees for July, average high 90.

I am glad you bumped this thread because I coincidentally went down to the local library and asked to see the newspapers from Aug 71. Unfortunately they are all on microfilm and I didn't have time to sit down and research. I am going to try again some other day when I have more time.

Josephine County Major Crime Unit has closed down due to money issues so I doubt anyone is working on this case..

Fin
01-30-2013, 01:52 PM
https://identifyus.org/en/cases/10929
as of january 15th 2013, case created in namus!

Fin
01-30-2013, 01:53 PM
there is one rule out.
, martha shelton.

Fin
01-30-2013, 02:03 PM
age now extended from 16-20...now is 16-30
hair is auburn with blond streaks, but categorized in namus as red/auburn.

Fin
01-30-2013, 02:05 PM
https://identifyus.org/en/medias/show/17078 gold buckled shoes

Fin
01-30-2013, 02:06 PM
https://identifyus.org/en/medias/show/17131

Fin
01-30-2013, 02:08 PM
https://identifyus.org/en/medias/show/17133

Fin
01-30-2013, 02:09 PM
https://identifyus.org/en/medias/full/17151

Fin
01-30-2013, 02:10 PM
https://identifyus.org/en/medias/17154

Fin
01-30-2013, 02:16 PM
3d reapproximation done in 2004 by JN
https://identifyus.org/en/medias/17077

webrocket
01-30-2013, 05:05 PM
for a young woman in 1970 or 1971, the clothing and jewelry were decidedly un-hip. when I saw the coat I thought old lady. and mother of pearl ring?

I almost get the feeling some of this belonged to an older woman, say the UID's grandmother. if she was living with granny and granny passed away, then there literally coulld have been no one to report her missing.

deca
01-30-2013, 06:33 PM
Glad to hear she is finally in NamUs.

I know last I looked they refused to say how she died- but it is obvious to me now that it must have been murder.

Now that they have posted all those pics I hope and pray that someone will recognize something. That ring with the scratched initials is pretty distinctive.

YAY YAY for DNA!

OC Lady
01-30-2013, 08:11 PM
Agree with webrocket...the shoes are really "old lady" shoes, too!

And the reconstruction looks older, too - although it's just not very good, so it's hard to tell...

Could the age possibly be a mistake???

EmmaliLucia
01-30-2013, 09:52 PM
So I've never done this before, But I'm going to throw out a bunch of links, explain what could have happened to get them there, Say why I think it might be them, and then give a "Could it be" meter, the meter starts at "I'm willing to bet money that it is this person; I could totally see it; maybe; it could be; and I doubt it"


Lynn Bernadette Luray
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/2880dfca.html
It said she may have left with an older male, he could have kept her/she could have chosen to stay with him for a few years, something happens, she dies, he leaves her out in the woods.
Her nose vs. the recons nose look really close
Between maybe and I could totally see it, but closer to maybe


Terry Ann Kelley
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/k/kelley_terry.html
She seems to be an incredibly gifted girl, but then it mentions that she had some troubles, She could have possibly run away and lived on the streets, or travelled.
Between it could be and I doubt it


Robin Ann Graham
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/980dfca.html
The Namus for the UID says that the person could have died in late 1970, let's say that she was picked up by a creep (Which it looks like she did), I could see someone killing another person, freaking out about what they did, driving to a different state and put a map in her pocket to throw off the trail.
Yes it says her hair is brown and not red, but being a red-head myself, I know that even if you have a slight natural red undertone to your hair you can be considered a red-head, ALSO red hair is sometimes hard to see in a photo unless it's Orange. Go ahead and look at my photos, does it look like I have red hair? Because I actually have quite vivid red hair.
I could totally see it.


Laura Lee Asynithe Flink
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/2032dfwa.html
She could have told her live-in boyfriend that she was driving to Moclips as a cover so that she could go get a "Shmashmortion." Seeing as how she just won her 16 month old son, she may have been petrified at the thought of raising another child. Back then, illegal abortions were unregulated and many people died because of them. The doctor, not wanting to be found out, could have sent someone to get rid of her body (Or got rid of her body him/herself), I could see someone going all the way down to California for a body dump but then thinking that he/she was going to get checked at the Cali/Ore boarder, buying a map to make it look like she was a traveller, and leaving her out in the forest.
It could be, but I kinda doubt it.


LAST BUT CERTAINLY NOT LEAST

Christine Marie Eastin
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/275dfca.html
I don't know why, but I just really get the feeling that this is her. Same weight. The height is off but when it comes to skeletal remains, the height has been off as much as six inches, so it's not obscenely off. Remember what I said about the red hair plus in the picture it looks like it could actually be considered red hair. The age is right, and the timing is right.
I would be willing to bet money

OC Lady
01-31-2013, 12:11 AM
I was going to post Christine Eastin as a possibility, but couldn't get past the clothing on the UID and what Christine wad wearing when last seen

EmmaliLucia
01-31-2013, 01:58 AM
Clothing can be changed. Jewellery can be taken off and put on..

There's no definitive proof that if this was a missing person, that she died the moment she went missing.

deca
01-31-2013, 12:34 PM
I keep coming back to Christine again and again- but Christine's circumstances just don't seem to jive with this Doe. Christine was taken from a car wash. By all accounts she was successful and had a boyfriend and loving family IIRC. So to be this Doe she probably would have had to run away and have the chance to change clothes. Could happen but it just doesn't seem likely.

OC Lady
01-31-2013, 02:31 PM
deca articulated my reservations exactly - seems like there was no reason for Christine to be wearing these clothes...I'm thinking we should widen the search to girls from other parts of the country...maybe she was a runaway, and got clothes from Goodwill or Salvation Army??

EmmaliLucia
01-31-2013, 02:54 PM
Hello Emmali,

I checked our database and this has already been submitted.

Thank you,
Best Regards,
Rocky Wells

deca
02-03-2013, 12:00 AM
Went to the library and looked through the newspapers archived on microfilm for August 1971 (The Mail Tribune which is the closest major paper in the area where this Doe was found). I didn't find anything referencing this Doe- but I was only looking at the first few pages of each day. I thought for sure it would be "front page" news, but maybe it was further back or not reported on until September.

In any case, looking through those papers a few things stood out to me.
1. Shakespeare festival, a summer long festival that attracts people from all over to act in/watch the plays were going on. This is a large attraction here.

2. The Britt Festival- a smaller weeks long festival of musical groups was also going on.

3. There were at least 3 articles written during these weeks regarding young people that had no where to stay because campgounds/hotels were booked up. Also, a few articles about how the area was filling up with runaways.

SoSueMe
03-12-2013, 11:59 AM
*Bump*

KLEE
03-12-2013, 12:13 PM
Annie has been added in NamUs. She is UP10929. Under "circumstances" you will see a link to another web site which is being built by an AWESOME lady in Austrilia! Copy and paste that. She is highlighting the jewelery for me/us. Lets find Annie's home!

KLEE
03-12-2013, 01:35 PM
I believe that the MOP with AL scratched into it is KEY, maybe THE KEY. To de-face a ring in this way is highly unusual. Are those her initials, as she new things were going south? Possibly the killers?

Kimster
03-24-2013, 06:37 PM
:rose: "Annie Doe" is our featured cold case from 3/24 to 3/31/2013 :rose:

carbuff
03-24-2013, 07:46 PM
That pink and black or gray houndstooth and buckle shoes were very popular in the late 60's and early 70's. The style is "mod." Pre-hippie. I used to have an outfit very similar to this, except my houndstooth was green. Even the zip-up-the-back turtleneck.

Here are some links that show jackets that are in the ballpark:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-GEFxgHP8YVQ/UJF8bBHFryI/AAAAAAAAHhA/N4bm7CbHxBA/s320/il_fullxfull.388308368_g6bs.jpeg http://image0-rubylane.s3.amazonaws.com/shops/poppysvintageclothing/RL-poppy893.1M.jpg?52 https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSV5wmE142JWlGHiz-BPeOraEMnqN0XAsJtgFa_VwRw9S1EVpK_SfRM6g

And here are the general style of shoes: http://img1.etsystatic.com/013/1/5836298/il_170x135.440787705_j511.jpg

rosesfromangels
03-24-2013, 08:23 PM
I believe that the MOP with AL scratched into it is KEY, maybe THE KEY. To de-face a ring in this way is highly unusual. Are those her initials, as she new things were going south? Possibly the killers?

My thought was it was either the initials of a boyfriends name, or his name was Al. Or Hz,er initials, or her nickname. Maybe short for Allison. But I think it referred to a guy.

rosesfromangels
03-24-2013, 08:26 PM
That pink and black or gray houndstooth and buckle shoes were very popular in the late 60's and early 70's. The style is "mod." Pre-hippie. I used to have an outfit very similar to this, except my houndstooth was green. Even the zip-up-the-back turtleneck.

Here are some links that show jackets that are in the ballpark:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-GEFxgHP8YVQ/UJF8bBHFryI/AAAAAAAAHhA/N4bm7CbHxBA/s320/il_fullxfull.388308368_g6bs.jpeg http://image0-rubylane.s3.amazonaws.com/shops/poppysvintageclothing/RL-poppy893.1M.jpg?52 https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSV5wmE142JWlGHiz-BPeOraEMnqN0XAsJtgFa_VwRw9S1EVpK_SfRM6g

And here are the general style of shoes: http://img1.etsystatic.com/013/1/5836298/il_170x135.440787705_j511.jpg

Those shoes were considered quite mod when worn with tights or fishnets. The coat looks east coast, spring coat, bobbie brooksish.

rosesfromangels
03-24-2013, 08:30 PM
Do we know if the highlights were natural or "frosted". That was big back then and can help determine age. No young girl did that, it was only older girls.

carbuff
03-24-2013, 08:42 PM
Do we know if the highlights were natural or "frosted". That was big back then and can help determine age. No young girl did that, it was only older girls.

Namus says "Auburn with dyed blonde streaks." https://identifyus.org/en/cases/10929

rosesfromangels
03-24-2013, 08:50 PM
Do we know if the highlights were natural or "frosted". That was big back then and can help determine age. No young girl did that, it was only older girls.


Namus says "Auburn with dyed blonde streaks." https://identifyus.org/en/cases/10929

Young girls didn't frost their hair back then. Annie must be at least in her later teens. But the initials on the ring are something more a young teen would do. Hmmmm.
Red hair. Why am I thinking Boston or Rhode Island Irish? The coat and shoes seem east coast spring fashion for that era. Do we have lables on that coat? Or brand of shoe? Might help narrow down region of .purchase. there was a knife found close by but no mention of blood on the clothes? They do have DNA samples which is great.

carbuff
03-24-2013, 09:07 PM
Young girls didn't frost their hair back then. Annie must be at least in her later teens. But the initials on the ring are something more a young teen would do. Hmmmm.
Red hair. Why am I thinking Boston or Rhode Island Irish? The coat and shoes seem east coast spring fashion for that era. Do we have lables on that coat? Or brand of shoe? Might help narrow down region of .purchase. there was a knife found close by but no mention of blood on the clothes? They do have DNA samples which is great.

Jeans were Wrangler, shoes were Primstyle (is that a JC Penney brand?), but no brand on the coat.

I agree with you about it looking like a spring coat. The kind my grandmother used to call a "car coat."

I also agree about the frosting. I was graduating from high school in Montana in 1971 and I don't remember anybody frosting their hair -- no, wait, I take that back, a couple of the cheerleaders did. It was a VERY trendy thing to do.

I wonder if they're sure about the hair style, or if that's an approximation. I would have expected a shorter style -- something teased and flipped.

carbuff
03-24-2013, 09:11 PM
Here's a possibility. Cindy Lee Mellin went missing in California in January 1970: http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/869dfca.html

She's 5'4" (within 2") and 105 lbs (below estimate), with brown hair that is clearly frosted in the photo. I can't tell whether it has a reddish tinge.

She's described as wearing similar style clothing: " navy blue dress with red buttons, a brown corduroy coat and blue shoes with gold buckles. She was also wearing a gold ring with a single pearl."Thoughts?

rosesfromangels
03-24-2013, 10:24 PM
Here's a possibility. Cindy Lee Mellin went missing in California in January 1970: http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/869dfca.html

She's 5'4" (within 2") and 105 lbs (below estimate), with brown hair that is clearly frosted in the photo. I can't tell whether it has a reddish tinge.

She's described as wearing similar style clothing: " navy blue dress with red buttons, a brown corduroy coat and blue shoes with gold buckles. She was also wearing a gold ring with a single pearl."Thoughts?

I'm thinking Cindy had a while pearl solitaire style vs mother of pearl the Doe had. The map suggests a tourist. Was she brought there specifically to dispose of, or was this a crime of opportunity? The red hair and that ring. We can find this one.
I'm thinking tourist, traveling student. The initials in the ring is a juvenile act. That doesn't compute.

rosesfromangels
03-24-2013, 10:36 PM
I googled the shoes they are a Woolworth brand. I will see if I can find a vintage catalog online and see if the coat is in the catalog as well .

carbuff
03-24-2013, 10:39 PM
I googled the shoes they are a Woolworth brand. I will see if I can find a vintage catalog online and see if the coat is in the catalog as well .

I rather suspect the jacket could be handmade. Back in those days, many of us knew how to sew, and that would explain the lack of label.

jenstar
03-24-2013, 11:36 PM
I know the time frame is off a bit
https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/4581/171/

I mapped up where Doe was found and there's a major N/S Hwy..Hwy 5 that runs through Josephine Co. So I started in Washington.

dizzigirl1
03-25-2013, 08:44 AM
What do people think about Niki Diane Britten? Probably way off base but she went missing from Albany, Oregon in July 1969, apparently went to New York.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/b/britten_niki.html

While there is no mention of glasses, its the lips and eyes shape for me. I cant tell from the photo if she had long hair pulled back. Maybe i have an overactive imagination.

jlentine
03-25-2013, 11:31 AM
I think Niki Britten is a good one dizzygirl. Especially with the checkered coat she has in the picture.

There's another female missing in that time frame as well and she doesn't have a NameUs file either, but listed both in Doe Network and Charley Project. She has been associated with the Zodiac killer, but they never did find her body.

http://www.charleyproject.org/images/l/lass_donna4.jpg

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/l/lass_donna.html

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/836dfca.html

What's real interesting is that her initials are D.A.L. If she went by her middle name, the m-o-p ring that the UP had would make sense.

carbuff
03-25-2013, 01:10 PM
What do people think about Niki Diane Britten? Probably way off base but she went missing from Albany, Oregon in July 1969, apparently went to New York.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/b/britten_niki.html

While there is no mention of glasses, its the lips and eyes shape for me. I cant tell from the photo if she had long hair pulled back. Maybe i have an overactive imagination.

I don't think she has long hair pulled back. It looks like she has one of those Twiggy-style "mod" haircuts that's slightly teased in back and her hair looks frosted in that one photo. It's the haircut I would expect the wearer of that jacket and those shoes to have in 1970-71.

The UID's Namus description doesn't mention long hair. I wonder whether they know it's long, or they just used that wig with the reconstruction to emphasize the color? Hair that long was still a bit unusual in 1971.

The edge of jacket that's visible in the photo looks very similar to the UID's jacket. (Note that the jacket on the reconstruction is not identical to the jacket they found on/with the body.)

If she was hitchhiking back from New York to Albany OR, she might well have run into trouble.

She looks like a good possibility.

carbuff
03-25-2013, 01:13 PM
I think Niki Britten is a good one dizzygirl. Especially with the checkered coat she has in the picture.

There's another female missing in that time frame as well and she doesn't have a NameUs file either, but listed both in Doe Network and Charley Project. She has been associated with the Zodiac killer, but they never did find her body.

http://www.charleyproject.org/images/l/lass_donna4.jpg

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/l/lass_donna.html

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/836dfca.html

What's real interesting is that her initials are D.A.L. If she went by her middle name, the m-o-p ring that the UP had would make sense.

Charley sounds definitely skeptical of the Zodiac theory.

She looks very close facially. Some of her photos show that she definitely frosted her hair.

KLEE
03-25-2013, 04:47 PM
jlentine - you are thinking of Donna Lass. Everyone else, the hair is long! I can't tell about the highlights (died or natural). We are looking at several young ladies and as they are DNA excluded it will be added to NamUs. There are a number of ladies potentially excluded by dental but NamUS currently checking the charting of this and will add to their database.

carbuff
03-25-2013, 04:50 PM
jlentine - you are thinking of Donna Lass. Everyone else, the hair is long! I can't tell about the highlights (died or natural). We are looking at several young ladies and as they are DNA excluded it will be added to NamUs. There are a number of ladies potentially excluded by dental but NamUS currently checking the charting of this and will add to their database.

Thank you for confirming about the hair.

dizzigirl1
03-26-2013, 05:23 AM
Thankyou for your opinions. Last night i stared and stared at the two pictures. Niki went 12 months before "Annie Doe" was found. I saw a site that had so many missing teens on it & it broke my heart. I thought perhaps her hair was a little short in the photo, i didn't think it would grow that much in 12 months but it was worth a try. It's just so sad to be missing for so long. A body found and no name or claim. :-(

Skully
03-26-2013, 10:05 AM
That pink and black or gray houndstooth and buckle shoes were very popular in the late 60's and early 70's. The style is "mod." Pre-hippie. I used to have an outfit very similar to this, except my houndstooth was green. Even the zip-up-the-back turtleneck.

Here are some links that show jackets that are in the ballpark:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-GEFxgHP8YVQ/UJF8bBHFryI/AAAAAAAAHhA/N4bm7CbHxBA/s320/il_fullxfull.388308368_g6bs.jpeg http://image0-rubylane.s3.amazonaws.com/shops/poppysvintageclothing/RL-poppy893.1M.jpg?52 https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSV5wmE142JWlGHiz-BPeOraEMnqN0XAsJtgFa_VwRw9S1EVpK_SfRM6g

And here are the general style of shoes: http://img1.etsystatic.com/013/1/5836298/il_170x135.440787705_j511.jpg

I wanted to post the same thing about the cloths and shoes. My teen yrs were in the late 60's to early 70's so I recognize the cloths and shoes. I think I got my coat at Sears or JC Penny's . Not many other stores around my home at that time. Buster Brown was the place for shoes. Do you think the ring could be a Moon Stone or Opal? They were popular during that time frame as well. I may try my hand at doing a facial drawing based on the model. When done I will post.

I went back and looked at the ring, it is pearl.

Skully
03-26-2013, 10:42 AM
I took the image and put it into Photo shop and this is what I got.

Skully
03-26-2013, 11:18 AM
Robin Ann Graham's photos look a bit like Annie, but the height is off.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/g/graham_robin.html

KLEE
03-26-2013, 11:47 AM
I'll entertain thoughts from anyone about Annie. I currently have a "short list" of 103 young ladies from the US and Canada. Of those, 23 have DNA on file and data bases have not gotten a hit. Another 56 have been tentatively excluded for a variety of reasons. If Annie has sibilings, they want to know what happened! I'm reading every post so, bring your thoughts on!

grateful1
03-26-2013, 11:57 AM
https://identifyus.org/en/medias/17154

Found this trademark/logo info. re: the silver ring


Not sure how much it helps?

http://www.antique-jewelry-investor.com/crime-scene-investigation.html

KLEE
03-26-2013, 12:09 PM
Yes, I've been working with Yvonne who are built an entire series of web pages highlighting the rings and providing anyone to give feedback. Those e-mails come directly to my inbox.

grateful1
03-26-2013, 12:16 PM
From Aug. 26, 1971, Cave Junction, OR

deca
03-26-2013, 12:19 PM
Hey just wanted to remind people that pictures of the missing might be a few years old- so hairstyle could have changed, grown out whatever by the time they went missing. Family is asked to give recent pictures, but often don't have anything and pull up pics from the last holiday or even graduation type pictures.

Also, it gets pretty cold here at night- the 50s- even in the middle of a summer heat wave. So some people still wear jackets then.

deca
03-26-2013, 12:25 PM
OMG! Thanks so much grateful1! I have been looking and looking for an article. I had no clue Cave Junction had one back then.

So, she was found off a side road 1/5 mile from 199 (that is the road to the coast) so it sounds like someone on that road came, pulled off the road and dumped her.

They don't want to call it murder???? Was that some LE tactic? Because like the sheriff said- girls dressed like that just don't wander away from town and die in a ditch on the side of the road. And the knife?

I have been following Annie's case for awhile and really hope all of you can come up with something.

KLEE
03-26-2013, 12:35 PM
http://www.antique-jewelry-investor.com/crime-scene-investigation.html

http://www.antique-jewelry-investor.com/unsolved-crimes.html

grateful1
03-26-2013, 01:10 PM
I think this is correct now for the general area the remains were found.

KLEE
03-26-2013, 01:19 PM
yes but if you go to google maps and put in mp 35 redwood highway, cave junction, or - it will get you closer

danzn16
03-26-2013, 02:54 PM
Does it say anywhere how long she was by the side of the road for? I've noticed the longer after their time of death they are found that their models of face can be less accurate. Just wondering...

KLEE
03-26-2013, 02:57 PM
Not certain of that time line.

deca
03-26-2013, 03:44 PM
They estimated 2 months iirc

Kimster
03-26-2013, 03:45 PM
This is according to the Doe Network:

•The victim was discovered on August 19, 1971 in Josephine County, Oregon
•Estimated Date of Death: July 1, 1971

I've been wondering why they think she died on July 1st? Something that was found with her?

KLEE
03-26-2013, 04:02 PM
As said, we are not certain on that time line

websurfer
03-27-2013, 09:33 AM
says it has a blue stone with the letters AL etched on it


On NAMUS it has pics and the ring is a Mother Of Pearl and is white?
Which is correct?
And on DOE it needs to be adding jewelry pictures as well also the shoes need to be on there..
also:
her hair looks red so anyone seeing the picture is mislead by the auburn look of the facsimilie hair..can they tone the hair down to reflect brown with blonde streaks?
Like may WEBSLEUTHERS, this case caught my attention years ago..but the DOE representation needs updated..thanks!:seeya:

websurfer
03-27-2013, 09:38 AM
I'll entertain thoughts from anyone about Annie. I currently have a "short list" of 103 young ladies from the US and Canada. Of those, 23 have DNA on file and data bases have not gotten a hit. Another 56 have been tentatively excluded for a variety of reasons. If Annie has sibilings, they want to know what happened! I'm reading every post so, bring your thoughts on!

It would help.
If a NO HIT list was here as well.

Cut and paste?
thanks!
I am researching today..listened to TRICIA'S radio show thanks Tricia!
Great show!:rocker::great:

Skully
03-27-2013, 10:22 AM
I could be wrong, but she doesn't look like a ran-a-way to me. Her cloths look like a girl that took care of herself, worked, went to school, you know. I check all the missing in CA from 1969 to 1971 but really didn't come up with anything. No purse or ID of any kind means they possibly robbed her too. But then ditch a knife, which could have had DNA or prints on it. That is strange. So I will keep checking the missing persons, but the clothing probably isn't what she had on if she was a run away or left months before this happened to her. The A & L on that ring has to be someone close to her, why else is this scratched into it.? It is also kind of juvenile to do that to a ring, like a kid did it. Adults don't usually deface there pearl ring in this manner, they get stuff engraved. I wonder if she could have wondered away from a home of some kind? Just a thought, back to checking missing persons. This is JMO.

Skully
03-27-2013, 10:25 AM
says it has a blue stone with the letters AL etched on it


On NAMUS it has pics and the ring is a Mother Of Pearl and is white?
Which is correct?
And on DOE it needs to be adding jewelry pictures as well also the shoes need to be on there..
also:
her hair looks red so anyone seeing the picture is mislead by the auburn look of the facsimilie hair..can they tone the hair down to reflect brown with blonde streaks?
Like may WEBSLEUTHERS, this case caught my attention years ago..but the DOE representation needs updated..thanks!:seeya:

I haven't started my drawing yet, just wanted to get a feel of more details and the photo shop in black and white, did that. I am going to do her hair more natural and with the streaks. I want to soften the face too, maybe that would help.

websurfer
03-27-2013, 11:04 AM
I was wondering if perhaps the AL[ scratched very sloppy on ring face]
could be the killers initials or first name rather than the victim's?

KLEE
03-27-2013, 11:16 AM
Ok, sorry all that "stuff" to do yesterday. I will be going back and reading and respond after I get stuff done. Quickly - the MOP is a MOP, not blue. It is not a real stone, fake. Ring like you would by at a trade show.

Skully
03-27-2013, 11:32 AM
Not perfect but it gives her some softness and what she could have looked like with make-up.

KLEE
03-27-2013, 02:35 PM
Not perfect but it gives her some softness and what she could have looked like with make-up.

May I use this drawing?

KLEE
03-27-2013, 02:41 PM
It would help.
If a NO HIT list was here as well.

Cut and paste?
thanks!
I am researching today..listened to TRICIA'S radio show thanks Tricia!
Great show!:rocker::great:

I will try and get some names out today but I have to do further "hand-on" research with her clothing today. NamUs will be adding 4 (I think) DNA exclusions soon.

KLEE
03-27-2013, 02:43 PM
says it has a blue stone with the letters AL etched on it


On NAMUS it has pics and the ring is a Mother Of Pearl and is white?
Which is correct?
And on DOE it needs to be adding jewelry pictures as well also the shoes need to be on there..
also:
her hair looks red so anyone seeing the picture is mislead by the auburn look of the facsimilie hair..can they tone the hair down to reflect brown with blonde streaks?
Like may WEBSLEUTHERS, this case caught my attention years ago..but the DOE representation needs updated..thanks!:seeya:

I will be sending update to DOE this afternoon. The NamUs site will be the most current usually.

Skully
03-27-2013, 03:47 PM
May I use this drawing?

Absolutly, Do you think it is okay, or do you think it needs changes? I feel it really looks like Robin Ann Graham after looking at her photos. But the height is off. But, yes, please use it if it helps.




http://peace4missing.ning.com/photo/robin-ann-graham-summer-1970?xg_source=activity

KLEE
03-27-2013, 05:15 PM
Absolutly, Do you think it is okay, or do you think it needs changes? I feel it really looks like Robin Ann Graham after looking at her photos. But the height is off. But, yes, please use it if it helps.




http://peace4missing.ning.com/photo/robin-ann-graham-summer-1970?xg_source=activity

It's pretty good Skully, maybe less blonde from what I saw today. Robin has been tentatively excluded by dental.

THANK YOU!

Skully
03-27-2013, 09:53 PM
Found this trademark/logo info. re: the silver ring


Not sure how much it helps?

http://www.antique-jewelry-investor.com/crime-scene-investigation.html

http://www.illusionjewels.com/costumejewelrymarksm.html

I found this page of Researching Costume Jewely site. If you go to M you will find the marking on the silver ring (M H) and it tells you the date they were in business and yr bought out. Thomas McGrath and Hamlin 1907 to 1980. Good page for other sleuthing references.

KLEE
03-28-2013, 11:18 AM
http://www.illusionjewels.com/costumejewelrymarksm.html

I found this page of Researching Costume Jewely site. If you go to M you will find the marking on the silver ring (M H) and it tells you the date they were in business and yr bought out. Thomas McGrath and Hamlin 1907 to 1980. Good page for other sleuthing references.

Ya, I found out the maker a while ago. Thanks Skully.

KLEE
03-28-2013, 11:26 AM
Found this trademark/logo info. re: the silver ring


Not sure how much it helps?

http://www.antique-jewelry-investor.com/crime-scene-investigation.html

Yvonne built this site for her very large worldwide clientile - you never know where info might come from.

Someone have time to find McGrath-Hamin's distribution method back then? They were based out of RI.

KLEE
03-28-2013, 12:11 PM
Ok, here are some names for you all. PLEASE DO NOT IN ININDATE DOE or agencies with questions. I will followup! I started looking for Canada missing last week and have not had time to exclude any.

Arensen, Dixie – California
Batoche, Mildred – Canada -
Bryant, Rickey Jean - Wisconsin
Carrier, Diane – Canada
Coleman, Harriet - Washington
Davis, Cathern - California
Drover, Sharon – Canada
Egnoski, Ruth – Wisconsin
French, Patricia Diana – Canada
Frost, Helen Claire – Canada
Hill Angela A – Washington
Greenley, Noreen – Canada
Hallock, Carmen Marie – Florida
Howell, Brenda - California
Kirkland, Delilah – Texas
Klayh, Sylvia Linda
Olanna, Fanny - Alaska
Pellerin, Clara – Canada
Polizzi, Darlene – New Jersey
Redman, Donnis Marie - California
Reine, Wanda Medeiros – Massachusetts
Schuett, Marianne – Canada
Sullivan, Dennise Jeannette –Utah

KLEE
03-28-2013, 01:45 PM
Google Maps

MP 35 - Redwood Highway, Cave Junction, OR

deca
03-28-2013, 10:44 PM
If any one knows how to get these: there were two other recreations done of this doe earlier than the "redhead" one we see posted around. Nothing against the person who did it, but I think it would open my mind to see even more variations of Annie (although the drawing really helps)
I have no idea how to get a hold of those pics.

Skully
03-29-2013, 08:00 AM
If any one knows how to get these: there were two other recreations done of this doe earlier than the "redhead" one we see posted around. Nothing against the person who did it, but I think it would open my mind to see even more variations of Annie (although the drawing really helps)
I have no idea how to get a hold of those pics.

Deca I did the drawing of the the model. I put it in photo shop and got it in black and white, then did a drawing in color pencil beside it to give it color.

You can just click on them and print them out.

deca
03-29-2013, 11:04 AM
Deca I did the drawing of the the model. I put it in photo shop and got it in black and white, then did a drawing in color pencil beside it to give it color.

You can just click on them and print them out.

Sorry if I wasn't clear Skully- I know you did the drawing- thanks for that! It helps. That clay one looks so lifeless.

But there were two other re-creations of Annie done by professionals before the redheaded clay one we see. I just have never seen those and wonder if anyone here knows how to find them.

I think it would be interesting to see them and helpful for comparisons.

KLEE
03-29-2013, 11:18 AM
Found this trademark/logo info. re: the silver ring


Not sure how much it helps?

http://www.antique-jewelry-investor.com/crime-scene-investigation.html


Sorry if I wasn't clear Skully- I know you did the drawing- thanks for that! It helps. That clay one looks so lifeless.

But there were two other re-creations of Annie done by professionals before the redheaded clay one we see. I just have never seen those and wonder if anyone here knows how to find them.

I think it would be interesting to see them and helpful for comparisons.

I've not seen any others. There is another currently being done but I'm only aware of the skull recreation.

deca
03-29-2013, 11:48 AM
I've not seen any others. There is another currently being done but I'm only aware of the skull recreation.

Whoops. My bad- I misinterpreted something said in this article which I had read some time ago and obviously misremembered. :facepalm:

http://z10.invisionfree.com/usedtobedoe/ar/t6585.htm

The article talks about the process of coming up with Annie doe's face. At some point in the article the detective talks about not wanting a drawing and I thought he meant that they already had a drawing and wanted a 3d image.
Ok, carry on folks, nothing to see here but my mistakes!:seeya:

KLEE
03-29-2013, 12:08 PM
I wanted to share with you all that the site highlighting the rings is attracking a crowd! Yvonne is going to load the pic that Skully came up with. The site had 498 hits Thurs and 521 Friday - Austrilia is a day ahead of us.

zwiebel
03-29-2013, 02:04 PM
As someone suggested the faux mother-of-pearl ring might be a class ring, I just wondered if it would be worth posting a pic of it on class rings lost and found? There's a chance anyone getting in touch could tell us which high school it might have come from.

I'm not sure about the ethics though - as we already know who the rings belongs to, just not who that person is. Here's the site, anyhow. I've tried a short search for identical rings, but there are hardly any pics. :(

http://www.classringfinder.com/Default.aspx

Does anyone think the AL could stand for Alabama?

Skully
03-29-2013, 04:15 PM
sorry I have been sore today, went for a biopsey and it was rough, so I will feel better tomorrow. I can check some of the names on the list. :seeya:

KLEE
03-29-2013, 04:19 PM
sorry I have been sore today, went for a biopsey and it was rough, so I will feel better tomorrow. I can check some of the names on the list. :seeya:

Feel better!!!!

KLEE
03-29-2013, 04:20 PM
As someone suggested the faux mother-of-pearl ring might be a class ring, I just wondered if it would be worth posting a pic of it on class rings lost and found? There's a chance anyone getting in touch could tell us which high school it might have come from.

I'm not sure about the ethics though - as we already know who the rings belongs to, just not who that person is. Here's the site, anyhow. I've tried a short search for identical rings, but there are hardly any pics. :(

http://www.classringfinder.com/Default.aspx

Does anyone think the AL could stand for Alabama?

It really doesn't look or feel like a class ring. As far as the AL - can't rule it out!

deca
03-29-2013, 05:20 PM
It really doesn't look or feel like a class ring. As far as the AL - can't rule it out!

Agree.
I have also wondered how visible the AL is. I can see it in the picture, but I am assuming that LE angled it correctly and used lighting to make it show up better.
If the AL was subtle, I wonder if it was just an older ring that she had once scratched on. Then she decided that it "completed" her look that day and took it out of the drawer, figuring that the "AL" wasn't that noticeable?

KLEE
03-29-2013, 06:29 PM
Agree.
I have also wondered how visible the AL is. I can see it in the picture, but I am assuming that LE angled it correctly and used lighting to make it show up better.
If the AL was subtle, I wonder if it was just an older ring that she had once scratched on. Then she decided that it "completed" her look that day and took it out of the drawer, figuring that the "AL" wasn't that noticeable?

When I photo'd the ring, I got better pic with natural lighting rather than special lighting. It's noticable

rosesfromangels
03-29-2013, 07:26 PM
Random thoughts and bits of this and that....

"AL" - I was googling AL and was researching all sorts of AL associated meanings. For some reason, this one caught my eye in particular from Answers.com:
"...What does AL stand for?"


"Answer:
Anno Lucis (the Year of Light) is a calendar system used in freemasonry. It is based on the Anno Mundi work of Bishop Ussher, 1581-1656, who determined that the the date of creation was 4004BC which the Freemasons modified to 4000BC for the purposes of AL. Adding Anno Mundi (modified) to the current date gives Anno Lucis; making 2010 AD = 6010 AL. Dates on foundation stones of Masonic Lodges are all in AL."

Then, the RED HAIR. I learned that only 2% of the American population have RED HAIR! How many registered missing persons are there with RED HAIR? For someone who knows how to search and cross index, this should *really* help narrow things down. The biggest population of RED HEADS is found in SCOTLAND with 13%.

Next, the CLOTHES. Wranglers and the shoes that are a Woolworths brand. Both the wranglers and those shoes were readily available in both the US and Scotland during 1971. Back in 1971, one in five purchases of jeans were wrangler jeans.

The fact a REDHEAD who is a 2%er in the US and has not been identified, leads me to wonder if she was visiting from Scotland, Ireland when she was victimized. I'm going to do more searches and see if I can find anything referring to missing tourists or news clippings from Dublin, Edinborough, etc. Needle in a haystack, but it kinda makes sense to me.

I just reread the news article re: the finding of Annie Doe's remains. They found a SILVER WEDDING BAND as well.....I certainly hope they took that band to a jeweler for analysis. That band could help determine her origin, quite possibly! Anyone know if this has been explored?

jlentine
03-29-2013, 11:34 PM
Adding another :twocents: worth:

The AL ring could have been handed down to her from a sister, mother, grandmother, etc. already scratched with their initials.

Or, since she had a wedding band, the AL could have been her husband's initials or even his name.

Another thought would be her child's name, but I'm not sure if it was ever determined that she bore children.

jlentine
03-30-2013, 12:36 AM
Alexis Duggan was 19 when she disappeared in 1970. There is no picture for her.

https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/17121/70/

carbuff
03-30-2013, 12:01 PM
Random thoughts and bits of this and that....

"AL" - I was googling AL and was researching all sorts of AL associated meanings. For some reason, this one caught my eye in particular from Answers.com:
"...What does AL stand for?"


"Answer:
Anno Lucis (the Year of Light) is a calendar system used in freemasonry. It is based on the Anno Mundi work of Bishop Ussher, 1581-1656, who determined that the the date of creation was 4004BC which the Freemasons modified to 4000BC for the purposes of AL. Adding Anno Mundi (modified) to the current date gives Anno Lucis; making 2010 AD = 6010 AL. Dates on foundation stones of Masonic Lodges are all in AL."

Then, the RED HAIR. I learned that only 2% of the American population have RED HAIR! How many registered missing persons are there with RED HAIR? For someone who knows how to search and cross index, this should *really* help narrow things down. The biggest population of RED HEADS is found in SCOTLAND with 13%.

Next, the CLOTHES. Wranglers and the shoes that are a Woolworths brand. Both the wranglers and those shoes were readily available in both the US and Scotland during 1971. Back in 1971, one in five purchases of jeans were wrangler jeans.

The fact a REDHEAD who is a 2%er in the US and has not been identified, leads me to wonder if she was visiting from Scotland, Ireland when she was victimized. I'm going to do more searches and see if I can find anything referring to missing tourists or news clippings from Dublin, Edinborough, etc. Needle in a haystack, but it kinda makes sense to me.

I just reread the news article re: the finding of Annie Doe's remains. They found a SILVER WEDDING BAND as well.....I certainly hope they took that band to a jeweler for analysis. That band could help determine her origin, quite possibly! Anyone know if this has been explored?

I have noticed while looking through missing persons listings for other cases that the proportion of missing redheads, or of UIDs who were redheads, is quite a bit higher than 2%. Enough to make me wonder whether the hair makes them a target or something.

Also, that percentage varies according to the part of the country you're in. In the northeast, where there's significant immigration from Ireland, the proportion could be as high as 10-15%.

rosesfromangels
03-30-2013, 12:50 PM
I have noticed while looking through missing persons listings for other cases that the proportion of missing redheads, or of UIDs who were redheads, is quite a bit higher than 2%. Enough to make me wonder whether the hair makes them a target or something.

Also, that percentage varies according to the part of the country you're in. In the northeast, where there's significant immigration from Ireland, the proportion could be as high as 10-15%.

Yes, you are absolutely right. Certain areas where there was an influx of Scottish/Irish immigrants such as MA, etc. have higher percentages of Reds. The cum avg. in the USA is stated as 2%. There's also some interesting folklore and other stats associated with Reds, and I wonder if you aren't right that they are more of a target. That in itself would be an interesting study.

All this said, I'm wondering if Annie's remains have been kept? Especially the skull. I am also wondering if there's anyway possible to get another rendering of her done. The original was probably pretty good for 1971, but I'm sure we could bring her more to life and increase the probability of identification. I know police resources are very slim. Anyone know of this being done in the past and how to go about it?

carbuff
03-30-2013, 12:53 PM
Since she's under 21, NCMEC might have resources.

deca
03-31-2013, 12:19 AM
KLEE-
I am assuming that you have seen whatever photos are available. Would you call her hair red (like that wig is RED) or could her family have classified her as auburn or brown?

Also, her outfit suggests that she cared for her appearance to an extent and was not living out of a tent for any length of time. My guess is she was traveling from the southern OR area towards the coast based on where she was left. Did anyone come forward saying that had seen her around the area?

The map suggests she was traveling. Were there any markings on the map?

TIA

zwiebel
03-31-2013, 01:39 PM
Alexis Duggan was 19 when she disappeared in 1970. There is no picture for her.

https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/17121/70/

Her alias was Alexis Yearby and she had a scar on her right knee, if that's any help. I can't find a pic either.

http://z10.invisionfree.com/usedtobedoe/index.php?showtopic=72707

KLEE
04-01-2013, 11:40 AM
Random thoughts and bits of this and that....

"AL" - I was googling AL and was researching all sorts of AL associated meanings. For some reason, this one caught my eye in particular from Answers.com:
"...What does AL stand for?"


"Answer:
Anno Lucis (the Year of Light) is a calendar system used in freemasonry. It is based on the Anno Mundi work of Bishop Ussher, 1581-1656, who determined that the the date of creation was 4004BC which the Freemasons modified to 4000BC for the purposes of AL. Adding Anno Mundi (modified) to the current date gives Anno Lucis; making 2010 AD = 6010 AL. Dates on foundation stones of Masonic Lodges are all in AL."

Then, the RED HAIR. I learned that only 2% of the American population have RED HAIR! How many registered missing persons are there with RED HAIR? For someone who knows how to search and cross index, this should *really* help narrow things down. The biggest population of RED HEADS is found in SCOTLAND with 13%.

Next, the CLOTHES. Wranglers and the shoes that are a Woolworths brand. Both the wranglers and those shoes were readily available in both the US and Scotland during 1971. Back in 1971, one in five purchases of jeans were wrangler jeans.

The fact a REDHEAD who is a 2%er in the US and has not been identified, leads me to wonder if she was visiting from Scotland, Ireland when she was victimized. I'm going to do more searches and see if I can find anything referring to missing tourists or news clippings from Dublin, Edinborough, etc. Needle in a haystack, but it kinda makes sense to me.

I just reread the news article re: the finding of Annie Doe's remains. They found a SILVER WEDDING BAND as well.....I certainly hope they took that band to a jeweler for analysis. That band could help determine her origin, quite possibly! Anyone know if this has been explored?

I've explored the silver band as well and it's on the NamUs site.

KLEE
04-01-2013, 11:44 AM
Yes, you are absolutely right. Certain areas where there was an influx of Scottish/Irish immigrants such as MA, etc. have higher percentages of Reds. The cum avg. in the USA is stated as 2%. There's also some interesting folklore and other stats associated with Reds, and I wonder if you aren't right that they are more of a target. That in itself would be an interesting study.

All this said, I'm wondering if Annie's remains have been kept? Especially the skull. I am also wondering if there's anyway possible to get another rendering of her done. The original was probably pretty good for 1971, but I'm sure we could bring her more to life and increase the probability of identification. I know police resources are very slim. Anyone know of this being done in the past and how to go about it?

A new rendering is being done but I'm not sure when it might be done. Yes, we have her in Portland (including her skull).

KLEE
04-01-2013, 11:47 AM
KLEE-
I am assuming that you have seen whatever photos are available. Would you call her hair red (like that wig is RED) or could her family have classified her as auburn or brown?

Also, her outfit suggests that she cared for her appearance to an extent and was not living out of a tent for any length of time. My guess is she was traveling from the southern OR area towards the coast based on where she was left. Did anyone come forward saying that had seen her around the area?

The map suggests she was traveling. Were there any markings on the map?

TIA

Oh that map - it was too dissagrated and no marking were noted. I would LOVE to see that map!!!!!!!!!!!! The hair, it could go either way, red or auborn. I wouldn't go brown.

carbuff
04-01-2013, 12:43 PM
Oh that map - it was too dissagrated and no marking were noted. I would LOVE to see that map!!!!!!!!!!!! The hair, it could go either way, red or auborn. I wouldn't go brown.

Were there enough blonde streaks that someone might have described her as "strawberry blonde"?

KLEE
04-01-2013, 03:17 PM
Were there enough blonde streaks that someone might have described her as "strawberry blonde"?

No, more red than auborn though

deca
04-02-2013, 12:07 PM
The clay recreation of Annie was done fairly recently FYI so not sure how interested LE is in getting another one done unless it is by a volunteer.

KLEE
04-02-2013, 03:02 PM
The clay recreation of Annie was done fairly recently FYI so not sure how interested LE is in getting another one done unless it is by a volunteer.

It's going to be done by the Portland ME's office

carbuff
04-02-2013, 03:52 PM
The clay recreation of Annie was done fairly recently FYI so not sure how interested LE is in getting another one done unless it is by a volunteer.

There have been significant breakthroughs in the software used to generate reconstructions, which makes them much more lifelike and much more likely to be recognized by friends or family of a missing person. So many older cases are updating.

EmmaliLucia
04-02-2013, 04:14 PM
I think I'm going to take her image and put it through photoshop real quick to get her a bit more smoothed out and somewhat life-like

EmmaliLucia
04-02-2013, 05:02 PM
Okay so everyone here is totally allowed to make fun of my and my reconstruction of Annie Doe.

I gave her my eyes and I gave her my hair (Back when I was a super red-head) to make her look a tiny bit more realistic. I also gave her eyebrows, attempted to give her lips, and smoothed out her face a bit.

What do you think? I'm going to go ahead and try again with the hair, I don't personally like it, and maybe try her with Blue eyes instead of hazel..

And then I also added in the one where I just smoothed everything out so it'll be a little easier to compare with the overly smooth profile photos of the 70s.

deca
04-02-2013, 05:52 PM
Okay so everyone here is totally allowed to make fun of my and my reconstruction of Annie Doe.

I gave her my eyes and I gave her my hair (Back when I was a super red-head) to make her look a tiny bit more realistic. I also gave her eyebrows, attempted to give her lips, and smoothed out her face a bit.

What do you think? I'm going to go ahead and try again with the hair, I don't personally like it, and maybe try her with Blue eyes instead of hazel..

And then I also added in the one where I just smoothed everything out so it'll be a little easier to compare with the overly smooth profile photos of the 70s.

Wow, that is a real improvement! Is there any way you can do a second version with browner hair?

carbuff
04-02-2013, 07:26 PM
Okay so everyone here is totally allowed to make fun of my and my reconstruction of Annie Doe.

I gave her my eyes and I gave her my hair (Back when I was a super red-head) to make her look a tiny bit more realistic. I also gave her eyebrows, attempted to give her lips, and smoothed out her face a bit.

What do you think? I'm going to go ahead and try again with the hair, I don't personally like it, and maybe try her with Blue eyes instead of hazel..

And then I also added in the one where I just smoothed everything out so it'll be a little easier to compare with the overly smooth profile photos of the 70s.

Nice job! The hint of makeup with her lips and eyebrows really helps make her look more alive.

EmmaliLucia
04-02-2013, 07:48 PM
Wow, that is a real improvement! Is there any way you can do a second version with browner hair?

Yeah! That should be super easy. I can probably have it done by tonight once I get out of school.



... Anyone else a little disturbed by how much she looks like Kate Winslet in my first picture? Just me?

EmmaliLucia
04-03-2013, 01:21 AM
So I made her hair more brown while still being what I'd consider auburn. I'm really bad with hair colours though, so it might still not be brown enough.

EmmaliLucia
04-03-2013, 03:01 AM
So I apologize for kind of bombarding this thread.

KLEE, I take it you work on this case? If so (or if not), have you seen an autopsy image of her? How accurate, do you think, is her nose? I know cartilage sticks around for a while, so I'm assuming it'd be pretty accurate. While working on her face in photoshop I kept noticing how Native American her features look. Was her hair obviously dyed (Other than the streaks)?

dizzigirl1
04-03-2013, 08:35 AM
I think its awesome that you have taken the time to do it EmmaliLucia!!! :-) Every night i look to see what is happening in the thread. Went through the list that Klee put up but dont think any of them are likely. Gives us all something different to work with. :-)

websurfer
04-03-2013, 08:40 AM
So I made her hair more brown while still being what I'd consider auburn. I'm really bad with hair colours though, so it might still not be brown enough.

:rocker:
thanks!

deca
04-04-2013, 12:41 AM
I believe KLEE is LE but whatever pics KLEE saw- well she was two months gone and I am not sure what was left. She was scattered by predators. :(

EmmaliLucia
04-04-2013, 12:47 AM
I believe KLEE is LE but whatever pics KLEE saw- well she was two months gone and I am not sure what was left. She was scattered by predators. :(

So why did they go with such a big distinct nose? Most red-heads have very small little button noses.

carbuff
04-04-2013, 10:37 AM
So why did they go with such a big distinct nose? Most red-heads have very small little button noses.

Even if that's true -- which I doubt -- that doesn't mean all redheads have small noses. In any case -- the bones of the skull give a good indication of such things as the length of the nose, the height of the bridge, how arched it might have been, etc. After two months there might still have been some cartilage remaining as well. The tip of the nose, and the nostrils, are likely approximations, but the rest should be pretty close.

KLEE
04-04-2013, 11:46 AM
So I apologize for kind of bombarding this thread.

KLEE, I take it you work on this case? If so (or if not), have you seen an autopsy image of her? How accurate, do you think, is her nose? I know cartilage sticks around for a while, so I'm assuming it'd be pretty accurate. While working on her face in photoshop I kept noticing how Native American her features look. Was her hair obviously dyed (Other than the streaks)?

Bombard away! Ya, I'm working the case. We are unable to determine, at this point, what is her natural color and what is dyed. It's a question I've asked.

UVB76
04-04-2013, 09:56 PM
I found these few rings almost identical to Annie's:
http://www.etsy.com/listing/127161855/mother-of-pearl-ring-vintage?ref=sr_gallery_5&ga_search_query=twisted+mother+of+pearl+ring&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_ship_to=US&ga_includes%5B0%5D=tags&ga_search_type=vintage&ga_facet=vintage%2Fjewelrytwisted+mother+of+pearl+ ring

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-WEST-GERMAN-MOTHER-OF-PEARL-RING-SIZE-8-ADJUST-/150392989163

Both are stamped with 'West germany'? I'm assuming if she were from Germany the ring would be stamped with West deutschland, though. I don't know much about jewelry so maybe someone else knows more about the stamp. It probably is no help, I just thought it was something a bit interesting. :\

deca
04-05-2013, 01:50 PM
Does anyone else think that that secong ring could be a man's ring?

Not that that will really help, but I have wondered if she was traveling with her boyfriend OR if she was hitching a ride. I lean to the boyfriend side.

KLEE
04-05-2013, 02:19 PM
I found these few rings almost identical to Annie's:
http://www.etsy.com/listing/127161855/mother-of-pearl-ring-vintage?ref=sr_gallery_5&ga_search_query=twisted+mother+of+pearl+ring&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_ship_to=US&ga_includes%5B0%5D=tags&ga_search_type=vintage&ga_facet=vintage%2Fjewelrytwisted+mother+of+pearl+ ring

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-WEST-GERMAN-MOTHER-OF-PEARL-RING-SIZE-8-ADJUST-/150392989163

Both are stamped with 'West germany'? I'm assuming if she were from Germany the ring would be stamped with West deutschland, though. I don't know much about jewelry so maybe someone else knows more about the stamp. It probably is no help, I just thought it was something a bit interesting. :\

I think these are great. The stone is rounder than what we have in evidence but ... I have looked all over the ring for a mark, stamp or anything and can't find. Good job! I've passed on to Yvonne for her option.

KLEE
04-05-2013, 02:20 PM
Does anyone else think that that secong ring could be a man's ring?

Not that that will really help, but I have wondered if she was traveling with her boyfriend OR if she was hitching a ride. I lean to the boyfriend side.

The ring could be either I think to some.

deca
04-05-2013, 07:07 PM
I know with another case here at WS, they were able to test the minerals in the teeth and discovered that a Jane Doe had lived primarily in the southwest.
I don't know what that test is called- but I wonder if a test like that can be done on Annie to narrow down the region from whence she came.

deca
04-05-2013, 08:17 PM
Here is a list of people who have been mentioned and not ruled out (unless noted).


Ok, here are some names for you all. PLEASE DO NOT IN ININDATE DOE or agencies with questions. I will followup! I started looking for Canada missing last week and have not had time to exclude any.

Arensen, Dixie – California
Batoche, Mildred – Canada -
Bryant, Rickey Jean - Wisconsin
Carrier, Diane – Canada
Coleman, Harriet - Washington
Davis, Cathern - California
Drover, Sharon – Canada
Egnoski, Ruth – Wisconsin
French, Patricia Diana – Canada
Frost, Helen Claire – Canada
Hill Angela A – Washington
Greenley, Noreen – Canada
Hallock, Carmen Marie – Florida
Howell, Brenda - California
Kirkland, Delilah – Texas
Klayh, Sylvia Linda
Olanna, Fanny - Alaska
Pellerin, Clara – Canada
Polizzi, Darlene – New Jersey
Redman, Donnis Marie - California
Reine, Wanda Medeiros – Massachusetts
Schuett, Marianne – Canada
Sullivan, Dennise Jeannette –Utah

Also mentioned earlier in this thread:
Debra Pscholka
Martha Shelton (ruled out per LE)
Lynn Luray
Terry Ann kelley
Robin Graham
Laura Lee Asynithe Fink
Christin Eastin (submitted)
Cindy Lee Mellin
Niki Britten
Jeanette Miller


I would like to add:
Helen Claire Frost (BC Canada)

UVB76
04-06-2013, 11:55 PM
I think these are great. The stone is rounder than what we have in evidence but ... I have looked all over the ring for a mark, stamp or anything and can't find. Good job! I've passed on to Yvonne for her option.

You're very welcome! I agree about the stones as well. I looked all over for a stone that matched better with the one in the photo but failed to find one, unfortunately. I'll keep my eyes out though, hopefully something will come up that can help!

KLEE
04-10-2013, 12:33 PM
I know with another case here at WS, they were able to test the minerals in the teeth and discovered that a Jane Doe had lived primarily in the southwest.
I don't know what that test is called- but I wonder if a test like that can be done on Annie to narrow down the region from whence she came.

We want to do that with her hair but finding the money ...

Kimster
04-10-2013, 04:40 PM
We want to do that with her hair but finding the money ...

Thank you for that reminder. I'm guilty of wondering why LE won't do this or that in many of these cases and forget how strapped some agencies are for cash. I wonder how Lane County, Oregon is even operating sometimes as they've been in dire straits for revenue as long as I can remember. :sigh:

MadeaBecBec
04-10-2013, 07:57 PM
I know with another case here at WS, they were able to test the minerals in the teeth and discovered that a Jane Doe had lived primarily in the southwest.
I don't know what that test is called- but I wonder if a test like that can be done on Annie to narrow down the region from whence she came.

It's called Isotope testing and it is done on the hair and teeth, to see where they grew up or spent most of their time! Great article here that explains it really well; http://phys.org/news123180241.html

LE could send samples to the different Universities that study this and probably get it done for free!

AnotherSetOfEyes
04-11-2013, 12:34 AM
I do not know one thing about matching. But I think the clay rendition looks a lot like the third picture of Helen Claire Frost. The large eyes and the mouth.

http://doenetwork.org/cases/254dfbc.html

AnotherSetOfEyes
04-11-2013, 12:59 AM
I found these few rings almost identical to Annie's:
http://www.etsy.com/listing/127161855/mother-of-pearl-ring-vintage?ref=sr_gallery_5&ga_search_query=twisted+mother+of+pearl+ring&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_ship_to=US&ga_includes%5B0%5D=tags&ga_search_type=vintage&ga_facet=vintage%2Fjewelrytwisted+mother+of+pearl+ ring

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-WEST-GERMAN-MOTHER-OF-PEARL-RING-SIZE-8-ADJUST-/150392989163

Both are stamped with 'West germany'? I'm assuming if she were from Germany the ring would be stamped with West deutschland, though. I don't know much about jewelry so maybe someone else knows more about the stamp. It probably is no help, I just thought it was something a bit interesting. :\

Helen was born in England 14 months after her sister Sandy, and the sisters moved to Nanaimo with their parents in 1956 when Sandy was five and Helen was four.

http://www.vancouversun.com/life/Still+missing+missed+after+years/2340534/story.html

Could the ring have come over with a parent or been sent by a relative overseas?

deca
04-11-2013, 08:57 PM
Helen jumped out at me as well and I am glad that someone else noticed! First, she was known to hitchhike. Second, she was probably depressed and upset with her life and could have decided to hit the road. Thirdly, she was known to use aliases- maybe she started going by something with AL?
When I originally found her it was on the Canadasmissing site and they don't put too much info on MPs there.

Somewhere, her sister said that when LKA Helen had very short hair but Annie has very long hair. Could it have grown to that length in that amount of time?

carbuff
04-11-2013, 11:20 PM
Poor Helen. She has such sad eyes. But I don't think she looks like this Jane Doe at all. The nose and chin are wrong. The circumstances fit pretty well, though.

KLEE
04-12-2013, 11:16 AM
I've finally got a good contact in Canada so can start really looking at those ladies and I'm starting with Helen.

KLEE
04-12-2013, 02:52 PM
Annie's dental is now charted in NamUs :)

rosesfromangels
04-13-2013, 01:05 PM
I was just looking at the pictures found in Seattle locker belonging to serial killer Rodney alcala. Creeeeepy. There is a redhead who could certainly for our profile for Annie Doe.

EmmaliLucia
04-16-2013, 01:10 AM
I was under the impression that Rodney's pictures were all taken later than 1971.

wantjustice
04-16-2013, 01:22 AM
I want these old cases to be solved. They make me so sad :(

carbuff
04-16-2013, 08:27 AM
I was just looking at the pictures found in Seattle locker belonging to serial killer Rodney alcala. Creeeeepy. There is a redhead who could certainly for our profile for Annie Doe.

Do you have a pointer to the photo you're talking about?

KLEE
04-23-2013, 12:16 PM
Aweful quite ya'll

dizzigirl1
04-26-2013, 07:38 AM
Do we have anyone ruled out or looking positive? I had a look for photos in the Alcala files but i have no idea what picture is being mentioned here.

deca
04-26-2013, 04:00 PM
Yeah, I reached the limit of my..uh...limited abilities. I keep checking the "new" MP that reach the web, though.

dizzigirl1
04-27-2013, 01:18 AM
Yeah, I reached the limit of my..uh...limited abilities. I keep checking the "new" MP that reach the web, though.

I know what you mean. i keep looking at Niki Britten and can't move away from her.

AnotherSetOfEyes
04-29-2013, 02:03 AM
Finally read the thread from start to finish. Some outside the box thoughts on people who have been suggested...

Martha Sue Shelton. Although she was ruled out as Annie Doe. Could this be her jewelry? And her husband's wedding ring?

Donna Ann Lass. There is some speculation that she was a victim of the Zodiac Killer. Has she been ruled out? It looks like one of the prime suspects name was Arthur Leigh Allen. (A.L.?) I skimmed a huge profile on him and it said that they confiscated a large collection of knives. I wonder if the knife found at the scene where Annie Doe was found matched any of those. Even if Donna Lass is not Annie Doe, could the Zodiac killer be involved here?

And finally, the way outside the box thought. The Zodiac killer liked to kill couples. Could he be tied to both the Shelton's disappearance and Annie Does?

EmmaliLucia
04-29-2013, 10:47 AM
I have always thought that Donna looks like Annie Doe, face wise.

The hair is what throws me off a little bit though.

KLEE
04-29-2013, 11:49 AM
I know what you mean. i keep looking at Niki Britten and can't move away from her.

Niki has been DNA excluded

KLEE
04-29-2013, 11:54 AM
Finally read the thread from start to finish. Some outside the box thoughts on people who have been suggested...

Martha Sue Shelton. Although she was ruled out as Annie Doe. Could this be her jewelry? And her husband's wedding ring?

Donna Ann Lass. There is some speculation that she was a victim of the Zodiac Killer. Has she been ruled out? It looks like one of the prime suspects name was Arthur Leigh Allen. (A.L.?) I skimmed a huge profile on him and it said that they confiscated a large collection of knives. I wonder if the knife found at the scene where Annie Doe was found matched any of those. Even if Donna Lass is not Annie Doe, could the Zodiac killer be involved here?

And finally, the way outside the box thought. The Zodiac killer liked to kill couples. Could he be tied to both the Shelton's disappearance and Annie Does?

The problem I have with anyone taken against their will is THAT MAP in her back pocket! That DOES NOT mean she was not taken against her will but, SHE WAS her for a purpose.

KEEP THINKING - inside and outside that box. I'm not fond of boxes so ...

KLEE
04-29-2013, 11:08 PM
Evening all,

No ideas why not thought from this angle. Maybe some of you have and sorry if I missing it.

Are there any males found or missing in the area and time of Annie?

I don't know if I will have time to research this week due to a project I'm still working on for the Sheriff. Any time I have will be looking at any missing or found deceased males during that time and would appreciate your input.
Annie was here for a reason. The map in her pocket, WISH WE HAD THAT or at least pics of that map! I love my husband! BUT if there is something we want to find at a later time, I get it. Adventurous couple?

A.L. That ring and the map are the clue we need. As we only have the RINGS, not just the AL mother of pearl, we also have the silver made in NJ ring. Some describe as a friendship ring, some as more. The website I've looked at says it unisex. The size is right for a female at 6.5 for ring fingers and would also fit a male little finger I think.

How about we start looking for a male and the silver ring? Flip the case upside down and on its head!

Thoughts or impressions?
Any thoughts in this direction?

KLEE
04-30-2013, 11:03 PM
Evening all,

No ideas why not thought from this angle. Maybe some of you have and sorry if I missing it.

Are there any males found or missing in the area and time of Annie?

I don't know if I will have time to research this week due to a project I'm still working on for the Sheriff. Any time I have will be looking at any missing or found deceased males during that time and would appreciate your input.
Annie was here for a reason. The map in her pocket, WISH WE HAD THAT or at least pics of that map! I love my husband! BUT if there is something we want to find at a later time, I get it. Adventurous couple?

A.L. That ring and the map are the clue we need. As we only have the RINGS, not just the AL mother of pearl, we also have the silver made in NJ ring. Some describe as a friendship ring, some as more. The website I've looked at says it unisex. The size is right for a female at 6.5 for ring fingers and would also fit a male little finger I think.

How about we start looking for a male and the silver ring? Flip the case upside down and on its head!

Thoughts or impressions?
Any thoughts in this direction?

Who's game to help me with this?

CarlK90245
04-30-2013, 11:35 PM
Of the publicly listed MP's from CharleyProject, DoeNetwork, NAMPN, or NamUs, I see three males missing from Oregon between 01-Jan-68 and 31-Dec-74.

Steven Lamb (1968) http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/l/lamb_steven.html
Kenneth King Wilson (1973) https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/15511/0
Charles Darrow Lloyd (1974) http://www.nampn.org/cases/lloyd_charles_darrow.html

From Northern California, I see 13

Peter Bonick (1970) http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/b/bonick_peter.html
Richard Lamson (1970) http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/l/lamson_richard.html
Charles Hollingsworth (1970) http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/h/hollingsworth_charles.html
Lewis Barrett Welch Jr. (1971) http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/w/welch_lewis.html
Randy David McBee (1971) www.charleyproject.org/cases/m/mcbee_randy.html
Roger Glen Carlson (1972) https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/11432/2
Dikran Knadjian (1972) https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/19337/0
James Colin Egan (1972) http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/e/egan_james.html
Charles Howard Bolter (1972) http://www.charleyproject.org/case/b/bolter_charles.html
Richard Edward Strehle (1973) http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/s/strehle_richard.html
Juan Puente Guzman (1974) https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/14553/0
Alan Wayne Soper (1974) http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/s/soper_alan.html
Stephen Locke Packard (1974) http://www.nampn.org/cases/packard_stephen.html

EmmaliLucia
05-01-2013, 12:47 AM
Two couples (And one trio) went missing in the two years before Annie was found.

http://www.charleyproject.org/images/a/andrews_edward.jpghttp://www.charleyproject.org/images/a/andrews_stephania.jpg
Edward (http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/a/andrews_edward.html) and Stephania Andrews (http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/a/andrews_stephania.html)



http://www.charleyproject.org/images/r/rios_thomas.jpghttp://www.charleyproject.org/images/w/williams_jimmy_allen.jpghttp://www.charleyproject.org/images/j/johnson_leah.jpg
Thomas Rios, (http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/r/rios_thomas.html) Jimmy Williams, (http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/w/williams_jimmy_allen.html) and Leah Johnson (http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/j/johnson_leah.html)



and
http://www.charleyproject.org/images/s/shelton_claude.jpghttp://www.charleyproject.org/images/s/shelton_sue.jpg
Claude (http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/s/shelton_claude.html) and Martha Shelton (http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/s/shelton_sue.html)

KLEE
05-01-2013, 11:19 AM
Well, that should keep me busy. THANKS

dizzigirl1
05-04-2013, 11:47 PM
In the article that Grateful1 posted back in post #71, it states Annie was covered by a box when she was found. Did that box have anything on it that could suggest where it came from? I have just been working through all the posts this afternoon. The location in the article states "Side road going to Cook Ranch, just south of rough and ready creek on the east side of highway 199 about 1/5 mile off the highway. Being in australia & honestly rather hopeless at direction does this mean she was heading towards california or away from california? Meaning she had possibly already been there and was on way home somewhere more north? I hope i make sense.

KLEE
05-06-2013, 05:15 PM
In the article that Grateful1 posted back in post #71, it states Annie was covered by a box when she was found. Did that box have anything on it that could suggest where it came from? I have just been working through all the posts this afternoon. The location in the article states "Side road going to Cook Ranch, just south of rough and ready creek on the east side of highway 199 about 1/5 mile off the highway. Being in australia & honestly rather hopeless at direction does this mean she was heading towards california or away from california? Meaning she had possibly already been there and was on way home somewhere more north? I hope i make sense.

That makes sense to me. I have no further information on the box unfortunately, nor any pictures of it. Her location is MP35 on the east side about .5 miles off the highway. No, if this was a "dump", a driver heading north - towards Washington and Canada would turn right. If heading south - towards California would turn left. As we drive on the right side of the road it make more sense to me that she was coming FROM california north. But, thats a guess, no proof.

deca
05-06-2013, 06:07 PM
That is my guess as well, but it puzzles me why she wasn't dumped earlier on the road given they had just driven 45 minutes through the woods and were just approaching a town. I suppose s/he could have killed her in the heat of the moment or something.
Perhaps they had pulled over to stop for the night- sleep out of the car- and then it happened.

Keep working on this one KLEE- someone has got to be missing this girl.

KLEE
05-08-2013, 11:59 AM
That is my guess as well, but it puzzles me why she wasn't dumped earlier on the road given they had just driven 45 minutes through the woods and were just approaching a town. I suppose s/he could have killed her in the heat of the moment or something.
Perhaps they had pulled over to stop for the night- sleep out of the car- and then it happened.

Keep working on this one KLEE- someone has got to be missing this girl.

Option number two. As I starred at the photo taken in the original press release and pondered ... What if she is simply a hitch-hiker who stopped there for the night? Any option I've pondered thus far creates more questions than answers for me!!!

No worries Deca. I'm known to be a bit of a bull dog and will do everything I can to find her home. You keep thinking too. :seeya:

dizzigirl1
05-09-2013, 06:34 AM
This evening i have been trying to think outside the box a bit & came across stories about the I-5 killer. Now i realise that in the early 70's he was picked up for indecency etc but part of his MO was a knife & robberies and 38 cents to me is change from a store purchase in her jeans & her purse has never turned up anywhere that we know of. Maybe Annie was a starting point for him? Just a thought. I've spent the last few days going through the doe networks missing from 66 to 72 for every US state & just felt maybe i should try a different angle. Being on this site has taught me so much about the way i think & its improved my skillset at work so if i can do anything to help someone, i want to give it 100%.

KLEE
05-09-2013, 11:33 AM
This evening i have been trying to think outside the box a bit & came across stories about the I-5 killer. Now i realise that in the early 70's he was picked up for indecency etc but part of his MO was a knife & robberies and 38 cents to me is change from a store purchase in her jeans & her purse has never turned up anywhere that we know of. Maybe Annie was a starting point for him? Just a thought. I've spent the last few days going through the doe networks missing from 66 to 72 for every US state & just felt maybe i should try a different angle. Being on this site has taught me so much about the way i think & its improved my skillset at work so if i can do anything to help someone, i want to give it 100%.

I have some "friends" in other agencies looking at that aspect of this case.

dizzigirl1
05-11-2013, 02:30 AM
I thought i would add Joyce Creola Brewer missing from Texas since Sept 6, 1970.

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1465dftx.html

It is believed she ran off with a boyfriend. It says strawberry blonde, over the time she could have grown her hair. The height is a bit off though. Still working my way through names and years.

AnotherSetOfEyes
05-17-2013, 11:00 PM
For some reason Annie tugs at my heart. I have a lot of faith in police as well as faith in the people here who have actually helped bring unidentified home. If the police cannot identify her, I have no idea what makes me think I can help. Strangely, I just feel she is missed. Even today.

KLEE
05-17-2013, 11:56 PM
For some reason Annie tugs at my heart. I have a lot of faith in police as well as faith in the people here who have actually helped bring unidentified home. If the police cannot identify her, I have no idea what makes me think I can help. Strangely, I just feel she is missed. Even today.

Please don't do tha "eyes"! WE WILL find her home! We have DNA and dental churning in multiple databases but in this case, Annie appears to NEED US to find her home. How you help is just keep thinking outside the box, in the box, around, over and under the box!!! It just takes ONE stone no yet turned over! Maybe its been turned over 10, 20, 30 years ago - we need to flip them all again "eyes". DON'T GIVE UP, PLEASE! Her friends and any siblings aren't getting any younger and YES, THEY MISS HER and they need closure. Pick a rock and roll it all over. Hang in there "eyes" and let your passion and gut lead you. (I'm looking to our Lord). Don't stop, we aren't done yet.

KLEE
05-18-2013, 01:04 AM
Annie, based upon dental is between 14 and 22. She was dressed in layers which is apropriate. Her clothing was of blue jeans, square toed shoes with 2 inch heels, a long sleeve "lazy" turtleneck neck zippered long sleeve blouse. Her next layer appeared to be a brown swade type followed by a pink and beige jacket. Her hair was auburn with blonde streaks, hard to tell what's what on hair color. Annie had change in her front pocket with oldest coin dated 1970 (that only tells us she was alive in 1970). She had some type of map in her back pocket of northern california recreational or camping facialties. Finally found on one of her fingers was a mother of pearl large stone, braided band ring with AL scratched into the face of the stone (possibly made in west germany). Near her was a silver "friendship ring", size 6.5 with "Sterling MH" stamped on inside. This is a jewelery from NJ and possibly made around 1951. Also in the area was a hunting knife which conclusivly had deer blood on it.

We have a scene photo and press release which states she was partically covered with forest depri and a box. It also appears there is garbage deprie at the bottom of the pic in the way of metal gallon size containers.

Choices for why Annie was there: She was hitching north or she was walking north and went dodown that dirt road for a nights sleep. Same but she was dropped there. She was visiting the area and got lost. She was visiting the area and was murdered.

Don't go crazy throwing stuff out. Let's really think about this and looks at NamUs/Doe/Inventor sites previouslly published on this thread. Ponder, ponder and ponder. I want your thoughts. DO NOT GIVE UP ya'll!

EmmaliLucia
05-18-2013, 01:59 AM
I just did a search through DoeNetwork on missing girls. I threw out the ones who already had DNA available since they would have been matched already.

Only a couple of the girls were proven run-aways, and even fewer had what I'd (Or investigators) would call red hair. But I'll show you the ridiculously long list.

The red Heads

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/images/EFranks2.jpg
Elizabeth Franks (http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1531dfoh.html)
Missing since April 1965 from Toledo, Ohio
17 years old


http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/images/DPolizzi.jpg
Darlene Polizzi (http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1544dfnj.html)
Missing since April 24, 1967 from Lodi, New Jersey
19 years old and 5'3



The runaways or people otherwise known to have been alive after the last seen date


http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/images/MASwitalski1.jpg
Mary Ann Ruth Switalski (http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/2277dfil.html)
Missing since July 15, 1963 from Chicago, Illinois
16 years old and 5'2


http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/images/ABackeberg.jpg
Audrey Jean Good Backeberg (http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/163dfwi.html)
Missing since July 7, 1962 from Reedsburg, Wisconsin
20 years old and 5'5


http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/images/REgnoski.jpg
Ruth Egnoski (http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/2645dfwi.html)
Missing since 1966 from Delavan, Wisconsin
18 years old



All the rest


http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/images/PHobley.jpghttp://www.doenetwork.org/cases/images/PSpencer.jpg
Pamela Sue Hobbley (http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/3080dfmi.html) and Patricia Spencer (http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/3081dfmi.html)
Missing Since October 31, 1969 from Oscoda, Michigan
15 and 16 years old, 5'6-5'8 and 5'3


http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/images/DSheehy.jpg
Denise Marie Sheehy (http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/754dfny.html)
Missing since July 7, 1970 from Woodside, New York.
16 and 5'3


http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/images/ICann.jpg
Ilonka Cann (http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/3096dfpa.html)
Missing since May 26, 1970 from Huntington Mills, Pennsylvania
22 years old and 5'6


I also still think that Laura Flink, (http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/2032dfwa.html) Robin Graham, (http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/980dfca.html) and Donna Lass (http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/836dfca.html) should be looked at.

AnotherSetOfEyes
05-18-2013, 12:18 PM
In the article, it mentioned that she had a slight overbite. Which several of these girls seem to have. Ilonka stands out to me because of her clothes.

AnotherSetOfEyes
05-18-2013, 09:58 PM
Ilonka had a 15 month old boy at the time of her disappearance. I can't find anywhere what the baby's name was. When she disappeared the father in law came to help her husband look for her. He (FIL) lived in New Jersey. I mention that only because the friendship ring came from NJ. It doesn't seem likely that it was her though. How would her body get all the way to Oregon? And how would the map and small change figure in?

deca
05-19-2013, 12:58 AM
I still think Helen Claire Frost might be a good possibility but I need to check her DNA status.


Do we know for Annie (yes, no or IDK)
-evidence of prior pregnancy
-pierced ears
-tattoos

So we don't know if she was murdered, right? It is strange that there was a knife right by her covered in deer blood. I mean, that just isn't something you find typically, although I suppose someone could have been helping themselves to some venison road kill and left their knife there by the side of the road.

I do lean towards her dying (OD or natural causes) or her being murdered and dumped----why? No bag or purse. I would think if she had stopped there by herself while traveling she would have had SOMETHING with her. Probably a backpack or satchel of some kind. With hair like that she would have had at the least a hairbrush. JMO

AnotherSetOfEyes
05-19-2013, 03:13 PM
Facts from article posted earlier (Thread 4, #76 )
The Bulletin, August 26, 1971, Volume XXXIV, No. 17, Cave Junction, Oregon

...body...found in a dump last Thursday [8/19/71] south of Cave Junction [OR]
...:the head wrapped in a pink and beige coat and covered with a box and some tree branches,,,
...head and arm bones found together...[rest of body] scattered over 100 foot sqare area...
...well filled teeth(without wisdom teeth) and was slightly buck toothed...
...tall, slim, 18-20 years old...long auburn hair...
...size 13-14 slim "Wranglers," brown shoes with brass buckles, a light colored sweatshirt, "lovable 34B bra, purple and white stripped apparently bikini panties and a pink and beige coat with large pink buttons.
... found near head...woven ring with pearl-type setting and letters "AL" scratched on it.
...found later by Sheriff's Deputy John Beairsto (sp?) ...sterling silver wedding band...same area
... time of death established as apparently two months ago.
... area where she was found...side road going to the Cooke ranch just south of Rough and Ready Creek on the east side of hwy 199 about 1/3/ of a mile off the highway

Thought this might be an easy reference to the facts in that article. Also, if one was simply camping in August, would you wrap your head in your coat and stick it inside a box? Maybe, I guess, if you wanted to keep bugs out of your face and hair. It seems more likely that someone else would have done that, after your death. That alone would point to murder IMO.

EmmaliLucia
05-19-2013, 06:10 PM
I have to ask why they think she's slim (Or tall, for that matter)?

Are sizes different now? Because I'm a size 13-14 and I am no-where-near skinny or slim.

AnotherSetOfEyes
05-19-2013, 06:28 PM
I have to ask why they think she's slim (Or tall, for that matter)?

Are sizes different now? Because I'm a size 13-14 and I am no-where-near skinny or slim.

Sizes were different then. So were perceptions of body size. IIRC, Twiggy came in somewhere around there and sort of changed how people looked at themselves.

deca
05-19-2013, 07:49 PM
Iam wondering if it is juniors size 13?

tamar
05-19-2013, 08:24 PM
Vintage sizing is very different than modern sizing.

a juniors vintage size 13 would equate to a modern juniors size 5
which in pants is about a 25-25 1/2 inch waist & a 35-35 1/2 inch hips

deca
05-21-2013, 06:04 PM
You know when you are looking and looking for MP that match up and after a while you keep getting the same ones over and over?

That is where I am with this case. But today I came across one posting from an Oregon missing blog that I haven't see on any other site. There is really no info about this person, but she went missing from Portland in 1970.


Ellen Louise McCollum Drake born 11/4/1949 Missing from Portland Oregon. Last know records on Ellen stop on 5/22/1970.

If you know anything about Ellen please contact Srgt K. Flynn Eugene Oregon Police department at 541-682-5182 .


there is a picture as well on the site, although she doesn't have long hair, who knows how old that picture is?:
http://oregonmissing.blogspot.com/search/label/Multnomah%20County

I figured it wouldn't hurt.

EmmaliLucia
05-21-2013, 06:11 PM
So who wants to call Srgt K. Flynn and get her MP report out there to Namus and Charley and DoeNetwork?




ETA. I'm doing it right now. I'll tell you guys what they tell me in a second.

deca
05-21-2013, 06:33 PM
Thanks EL! It is too noisy here for me to make calls.

As I said, a long shot, but it can't hurt at this point.

KLEE
05-26-2013, 02:27 AM
I
In the article that Grateful1 posted back in post #71, it states Annie was covered by a box when she was found. Did that box have anything on it that could suggest where it came from? I have just been working through all the posts this afternoon. The location in the article states "Side road going to Cook Ranch, just south of rough and ready creek on the east side of highway 199 about 1/5 mile off the highway. Being in australia & honestly rather hopeless at direction does this mean she was heading towards california or away from california? Meaning she had possibly already been there and was on way home somewhere more north? I hope i make sense.
I believe she was heading north.

KLEE
05-26-2013, 03:17 AM
I've read and read threads. Some have sent me in the direction the writer intended and sometimes, WAY OUTSIDE the box. At the point, and with upcoming planes I have, thought I'd just tell ya about Annie and I, it may or maynot help you understand my personal drive, no, NEED to find Annie's home.

My name is Kari and I'm one of the few Deputies left in Josephine county. I was first introduced to Annie in around 2000. I'd be ask to restore order to the evidence room in 1997. To say it was a task is ... Anyway, I was inventorying several homic

ide and missing persons evidence of the last moments or known monments of peoples lives. Then I FOUND Annie - ALL of Annie and ALL she had left we she was discovered. After spending the day w her I KNEW I HAD TO FIND HER HOME. My whse was NOT her home.

Much has happened, yet not enough, since then. There is a whole ANNIE TRAIN now (the one that finds her home). On the train we have dr's, dentists, specialists I can't pronounce, so many more. Right now, "the engine room" needs coal but upcoming stuff.

I started this and got a bit side tracked sorry.

Would each of you see how many missing the police have missing in your area and see how many of those you can find in Doe or NamUs? I can't remember your name right now from Austrilia and one from Canada- do same for uour Data bases.

HAS ANNIE EVER been reported? NamUs estimates as many as 40K, yes 40,000 have not been reported.

Couple goals her is to get word out and GET PEOPLE REPORT! Two, FIND ANNIE.

Ok, I'm chatty I guess. I'm NOT asking you to make your local police department crazy. Library and LE might have a list of missing also. OUTSIDE THE BOX with love and respect!
Do I have any takers? I'm working Annie as much as I can. KNOW THAT.

Thanks. Kari

EmmaliLucia
05-26-2013, 12:32 PM
Hi KLEE!

If it helps, on Wednesday I talked to this lady that works at the Oregon Crime lab in Portland, I can't remember her name to save my life though. I told her about Annie Doe and she told me that they're trying to get all the missing and unidentified into NamUs.


I have a gut-feeling that Annie was from around here. I know there are cases where the body was found halfway around the country, but this just doesn't seem like it's it.

deca
05-26-2013, 03:08 PM
KLEE and EmmaliLucia- I am from OR as well and as you two know we get a lot of tourists during the summer months enjoying our state. I am like you, I think she is from our general western area (CA, OR, WA) That just makes the most sense.
I DON"T think she is from So OR-- I think LE would have figured that out by now.

So, KLEE- I know you guys are horribly understaffed. It is terrible. Anyways, are you putting other cases into the Namus? Or are most of them in your area done? When I look at MP reports from around here, there just aren't that many.

In Annie's file- are there any notes from the time about MP that could be Annie that were never followed up on?

KLEE
05-27-2013, 12:31 AM
Multiple cases entered last week alone. As possible enter more!

dizzigirl1
05-27-2013, 02:22 AM
Klee, i am back from being away & will continue to look! Annie will find her home :-)

Still_Seek_Answers
05-27-2013, 04:58 AM
Please don't do that "eyes"! WE WILL find her home! We have DNA and dental churning in multiple databases but in this case, Annie appears to NEED US to find her home. How you help is just keep thinking outside the box, in the box, around, over and under the box!!! It just takes ONE stone no yet turned over! Maybe its been turned over 10, 20, 30 years ago - we need to flip them all again "eyes". DON'T GIVE UP, PLEASE! Her friends and any siblings aren't getting any younger and YES, THEY MISS HER and they need closure. (I'm looking to our Lord). Don't stop, we aren't done yet.

Klee,
This statement so tugs at my heart. My sister vanished in Feb.1972, and still to this day we search. never give up.....I guarantee somebody....out there somewhere.....is missing Annie Doe, and praying every night for the answer as to where she is..... and wondering what happened to her. The family of the missing never gives up hope, it is all we have to hang on to. We know they are out there.....somewhere.....it is just a matter of finding the where.

Still_Seek_Answers
05-27-2013, 06:11 AM
Facts from article posted earlier (Thread 4, #76 )
The Bulletin, August 26, 1971, Volume XXXIV, No. 17, Cave Junction, Oregon

...body...found in a dump last Thursday [8/19/71] south of Cave Junction [OR]

... found near head...woven ring with pearl-type setting and letters "AL" scratched on it.
...found later by Sheriff's Deputy John Beairsto (sp?) ...sterling silver wedding band...same area

If the MOP was found NEAR her head......and the silver wedding band was found in same area.....what makes people think they were hers? JMO but wouldn't one think they should have been closer to her hands? Or even in her pocket with the change?
I have been up all night searching unidentified databases so maybe I am just tired......but I also could have sworn I saw the second ring listed as a friendship type ring in earlier posts? I know animals could have moved the rings......but it makes me also wonder if one or even both rings could be unrelated to Annie Doe? Especially considering her body was found in a dump....and given the location of the dump.....I would think someone who knew the area placed her there?

deca
05-27-2013, 01:26 PM
Animals did scatter Annie's remains IIRC,

and the area wasn't an actual dump. More like a ditch on the side of the road were some debris was found- at least that was my impression.

Although there is a chance that the rings were not hers, I doubt there would be rings in the general area that just happened to be there at the side of a rural road.

That being said, she was young and sometimes young teens do odd things like carve other people's initials onto things. Maybe even a band's initials or something. So I have been trying to get too waylaid by the "AL".

Still_Seek_Answers
05-27-2013, 05:29 PM
Has she been ruled out? The center photo IMO looks quite similar to Annie Doe.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/h/hobley_pamela.html

KLEE
05-27-2013, 10:34 PM
Still Seek - yes, it is for the families we search, search and search again. I'm truly sorry you still wait. BGods peace to you and your family and KNOW, we DO NOT stop!

Still_Seek_Answers
05-28-2013, 02:58 AM
I know that so many people search and try to bring the missing home. I also know that it is tiring, frustrating, heart wrenching, and gut wrenching. Yet we all understand that every unidentified person deserves to go home, and that every family of a missing person deserves an answer.
When I first starting reading this thread it was because of the name given this girl....Annie Doe.....my family has called me Annie since I was very small. I was up searching unidentified databases looking for my sister, so I started typing in Annie's information also. It was my second straight night of searching with no sleep, or I may have thought of something sooner.
This girls nose.....it is SO very distinctive....I saw a question on one of the posts as to rather or not she could be Native American. I do not think they do now, but I remember when my sister vanished we had to search Indian reservations separately....they had their own LE. Does anybody know if they still have a separate database? I know NamUS is working hard on getting everybody entered, I also know if someone has dark brown/blackish hair and they spray it with peroxide it can appear auburn.My sister used to do it all the time.
Also does anybody know what serial killers were hunting/dumping in this area during that time frame? I think she is after the shoe foot fetish killer/ The lust Killer and before Bundy. The coat wrapped around her head, the box and brush covering her, to me says this is only a dump site. We heard less about them back then, but they were out there. ( I know it is outside the box, but sometimes one finds clues in the oddest of spots)
Marquette started in the 60's and was not caught until 1975ish. I am sure there are others which may come to my mind once I have had sleep.


Also does anybody have the link for the National Missing Adults Center? I know the NCMEC added one a few years back but my link is not wanting to open it. (Thank You)
Also, as the family member of a missing person....Thank You for taking your time to try to bring them home. You probably do not hear it often enough, but we do notice, and all your tireless efforts, your emotional turmoil, every attempt....is so very appreciated. We never lose HOPE...it is free.....it is the one thing we can hold onto when everything else seems lost.....never doubt how very much you are appreciated.

EmmaliLucia
05-28-2013, 03:04 PM
The only problem with the serial killer angle is there was only one operating in the southern Oregon area in the 70s (And I don't believe that someone from Northern Oregon would dump her that far south, that's close to a five hour drive from Portland). He actually sounds fairly plausible because of the fact that he killed a family of campers (And they found the camping maps in her back pocket)



So Sgt K Flynn called me back, anyone else have that moment where when an officer calls you you're convinced that they caught you doing something illegal? Even if you haven't been to that city in months? Because it took me a good five seconds to remember who she was. Haha.

Anyways, she had no idea who Ellen Louise McCollum Drake was and why I was calling her (She's the Eugene Sgt) instead of someone in Portland so I emailed her the link and she'll go find out who Ellen was and what happened to her file.

Still_Seek_Answers
05-28-2013, 04:37 PM
So the map was definitely of campsites? What was the closest campsite to where she was found? She could have easily gotten a ride with someone from the last campsite she stayed at.....hitching a ride was so common back then. If she was heading to California.......hmmmmmmm........

deca
05-28-2013, 06:52 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if there were at least 25 campsites within 60 miles from where she was found.


Did we ever learn if there were more rule outs?

Still_Seek_Answers
05-29-2013, 04:24 AM
I wouldn't be surprised if there were at least 25 campsites within 60 miles from where she was found.


Did we ever learn if there were more rule outs?

There are no new rule outs listed at Namus, but other than that I have no clue. I know I keep just tossing things out there but it helps me clear my mind.

Recreation Maps list more than campsites. They list hiking trails, biking trails, fishing and swimming areas and etc. Her clothing was not the type one generally wears for those types of things.(Especially the shoes) The clothing is more the go shopping or run errands type.

I'd not be surprised to find she is closer to 25 than to 20. Her manner of dress simply does not match a teenager even in that era.

deca
05-29-2013, 06:00 PM
Somewhere ( an article?, another site? earlier?) it was said that they were going to compare her to Shelton and Eastin. I think it was said that Eastin was not her? And no answer for Shelton.

I just would like to know if there are some more official rule outs---


I have searched all the databases and postings that I can find and still nothing :(

Still_Seek_Answers
05-30-2013, 01:40 AM
Somewhere ( an article?, another site? earlier?) it was said that they were going to compare her to Shelton and Eastin. I think it was said that Eastin was not her? And no answer for Shelton.

I just would like to know if there are some more official rule outs---


I have searched all the databases and postings that I can find and still nothing :(

Thanks for the update!!!

I listed this link earlier.......I swear the center picture looks so much like the clay reconstruction.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/...ey_pamela.html

As I was reviewing the posts I see where someone else posted this link also. I know she is from the other side of the US.....but that means little.
I wonder if she has been submitted? Does anybody know?

OC Lady
05-30-2013, 09:57 AM
New sketch of Annie just posted on NAMUS...what do y'all think?

AnotherSetOfEyes
05-30-2013, 11:38 AM
New sketch of Annie just posted on NAMUS...what do y'all think?

https://identifyus.org/en/cases/10929

Wow. I think that is quite different. Now I am going back through the threads and looking at all the pictures again.

AnotherSetOfEyes
05-30-2013, 12:18 PM
I think all of these look somewhat similar to the new picture.

Robin Ann Graham:
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/g/graham_robin.html

Donna Ann Lass
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/l/lass_donna.html

Jeanette Miller:
https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/4581/171/

Helen Claire Frost:
http://doenetwork.org/cases/254dfbc.html

Joyce Creola Brewer:
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1465dftx.html

Pamela Sue Hobley
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/3080dfmi.html


As an aside, I have looked and looked for any information about Ellen Louise McCollum Drake. The only thing I could find was a post on a genealogy site that said she was looking for her missing cousins Ann and Ellen Drake from Benton County Missouri. Which I though was an interesting coincidence.

deca
05-30-2013, 03:53 PM
New recon's major change IMHO is that her chin/jaw is narrower or more pointy. She also come across as much more attractive but I think that is just the method of recon. Clay seems so unlifelike to me.

Does anyone think there might be a "+" between the A and the L on the ring? Kind of down near the bottom of the letters? Not that that would be a big help or anything.


I see on NamUs Martha Shelton and Nikki Breton are officially ruled out.

Still_Seek_Answers
05-30-2013, 09:12 PM
https://identifyus.org/en/cases/10929

Wow. I think that is quite different. Now I am going back through the threads and looking at all the pictures again.

Oh yes, that is VERY different from the likeness done in clay. I like this one much better, hopefully it helps get her home.

AnotherSetOfEyes
05-31-2013, 08:06 PM
New recon's major change IMHO is that her chin/jaw is narrower or more pointy. She also come across as much more attractive but I think that is just the method of recon. Clay seems so unlifelike to me.

Does anyone think there might be a "+" between the A and the L on the ring? Kind of down near the bottom of the letters? Not that that would be a big help or anything.


I see on NamUs Martha Shelton and Nikki Breton are officially ruled out.

It is probably just the old computer and monitor that I have, but when I went back to look for the plus sign, it really looks to me like instead of an L it is a very large 5. No idea of what A-5 or A+5 would be. The number of the campsite? Model of car? (Audi 5) Probably not a 5 there at all. Anyone else see that?

Still_Seek_Answers
06-01-2013, 11:21 AM
I have looked and looked at the pics of the ring.....my eyes are old but I can not see a plus sign. Her new pic looks so very different from the clay version.

EmmaliLucia
06-01-2013, 02:31 PM
Her new sketch makes her look like she has an almost impossibly narrow chin. I mean, I've seen people with chins that narrow before (AnnaSophia Robb, for one), but it just seems too long and narrow compared to the reconstruction, you know?

AnotherSetOfEyes
06-01-2013, 04:22 PM
I am a bit computer challenged. Is there anyone who would be able to do one of those thumbnail side by side pictures of the original clay reconstruction, both of EmmaliLucia's softenings of the clay reconstructions (thread 6 #133 and #136) the drawing by Skully on thread 3 (#93,) and the new reconstruction on Namus?

CarlK90245
06-01-2013, 04:50 PM
I am a bit computer challenged. Is there anyone who would be able to do one of those thumbnail side by side pictures of the original clay reconstruction, both of EmmaliLucia's softenings of the clay reconstructions (thread 6 #133 and #136) the drawing by Skully on thread 3 (#93,) and the new reconstruction on Namus?

Original Image and Skully's modification
http://websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=34556&stc=1&d=1370119626

EmmaliLucia's modification
http://websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=34557&stc=1&d=1370119641

New Image
http://websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=34558&stc=1&d=1370119660

AnotherSetOfEyes
06-01-2013, 05:39 PM
Thank you so much CarlK!!!!

Still_Seek_Answers
06-01-2013, 11:52 PM
Is it just me but does her nose look different in the new drawing? Wider and not as long as in the clay?

AnotherSetOfEyes
06-02-2013, 02:52 AM
Is it just me but does her nose look different in the new drawing? Wider and not as long as in the clay?

I agree. And the teeth are a lot more pronounced. She really looks very different in the new drawing in my opinion. I wonder how the clay is done. Do they make a cast first from the actual skull? The drawing is signed, so it is done by a person, correct? I wonder how the person decides the features.

Has Ann Duncan been suggested?
https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/11970/1062/

Her age is not right, but she looks quite a bit like the clay reconstructions.

Still_Seek_Answers
06-02-2013, 12:55 PM
For clay......markers are set based on different skeletal structures and then clay is filled in to the depth the markers indicate......I agree the new drawing looks so different that I am still shocked......

EmmaliLucia
06-02-2013, 02:03 PM
I agree. And the teeth are a lot more pronounced. She really looks very different in the new drawing in my opinion. I wonder how the clay is done. Do they make a cast first from the actual skull? The drawing is signed, so it is done by a person, correct? I wonder how the person decides the features.

Has Ann Duncan been suggested?
https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/11970/1062/

Her age is not right, but she looks quite a bit like the clay reconstructions.

The only problem is her DNA is in CODIS, so if she was Annie we'd know by now. But she does look very similar to the reconstruction, good eyes!

AnotherSetOfEyes
06-03-2013, 12:22 AM
I have so much to learn. Thank you both!

dizzigirl1
06-03-2013, 09:35 AM
The face shape is very similar to Denise Marie Sheehy already suggested here

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/754dfny.html

Although i do not think it is her. The height & weight are off. Someone else sugested Cindy Mellin earlier, one of her pictures also looks similar.

I am slowly working my way through searching for teen runaways in the late 60s early 70s. I've been all through missing persons on here, facebook & the internet. I just dont see anyone on namus or doe that fits her description. Have also looked as australian missing. I can imagine there are many not reported or listed anywhere & its just so sad.

KLEE
06-03-2013, 12:00 PM
Thanks for the update!!!

I listed this link earlier.......I swear the center picture looks so much like the clay reconstruction.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/...ey_pamela.html

As I was reviewing the posts I see where someone else posted this link also. I know she is from the other side of the US.....but that means little.
I wonder if she has been submitted? Does anybody know?

My computer won't allow me to bring up Pamela.

KLEE
06-03-2013, 12:20 PM
So the map was definitely of campsites? What was the closest campsite to where she was found? She could have easily gotten a ride with someone from the last campsite she stayed at.....hitching a ride was so common back then. If she was heading to California.......hmmmmmmm........

Undermined, mostly decomposed

KLEE
06-03-2013, 12:23 PM
I have looked and looked at the pics of the ring.....my eyes are old but I can not see a plus sign. Her new pic looks so very different from the clay version.

No plus sign initials are AL

KLEE
06-03-2013, 12:45 PM
I agree. And the teeth are a lot more pronounced. She really looks very different in the new drawing in my opinion. I wonder how the clay is done. Do they make a cast first from the actual skull? The drawing is signed, so it is done by a person, correct? I wonder how the person decides the features.

Has Ann Duncan been suggested?
https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/11970/1062/

Her age is not right, but she looks quite a bit like the clay reconstructions.

Same person did the clay and latest picture. She is a forsensic artist.

KLEE
06-03-2013, 12:56 PM
Something to consider all, the late 60's and 70's was a very distinistive period in our history with kids "California or bust" all over the place! Never reported ... a very real possibility.

Still_Seek_Answers
06-03-2013, 09:04 PM
Klee.....I do not know why the link to her gets stubborn sometimes. Hope this one works. If I knew how to attach the pic I would have.....but I am still learning how every thing works on this site.


http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/h/hobley_pamela.html

deca
06-05-2013, 12:55 AM
wanted to bring this to attention:

When this case first appeared on the forum the death date was posted to be 1 month before she was found (that would make in July 71). Now it has been adjusted so she could have been there for a year (died anywhere from July 1970 on).

Something to keep in mind.

Still_Seek_Answers
06-05-2013, 01:15 PM
wanted to bring this to attention:

When this case first appeared on the forum the death date was posted to be 1 month before she was found (that would make in July 71). Now it has been adjusted so she could have been there for a year (died anywhere from July 1970 on).

Something to keep in mind.

I have been running searches on teenage runaways from 1969-1972. So far I have not found any that seem to match Annie. The more I look at her the less certain I am she is a teenager. I agree the scratching on the ring looks like something a teenager would do......the clothes found with her makes me think more of a young housewife. I am going to start searching 20-25 yr old woman who vanished in that time frame.....can't do any harm.

KLEE
06-07-2013, 09:09 PM
Search away "still seeking"! I'm most interested in Canada or someplace else. Can't tell ya why (not cause I have info but just a gut). She either has not been reported or not from US. Working on new press release before her 42nd anniversary. Any siblings she may have had NEED closure!

We have confirmed that we are not able to determine if Annie had or had not had a baby. Was really hoping we could determine that conclusively but, cannot.

Please trust that I read EVERY comment everyone and work this case as much as possible. Josephine County's entire legal system has been hit really heard and there are few of us left. So, I need, and am so very grateful for any thoughts. Annie is going to find her home by some obscure thought or tip. So, keep digging outside the box or inside the box. We may have starring at the answer all this time.

"Still seeking", I want you know that I have personal understanding to a missing loved one missing. God's peace upon you and your family.

Everyone treasure every moment of life. Living in the moment is really hard to do. Hope we each can figure that out while we still have time!

EmmaliLucia
06-10-2013, 10:46 PM
So I didn't want you all to think that I'm avoiding you or keeping secrets.

I emailed K Flynn of Eugene the website and she hasn't gotten back to me yet. So no news on that front

AnotherSetOfEyes
06-15-2013, 05:17 PM
Long shot. But I think she looks similar.

Maria Bernadette Aldridge went missing in 1968 age 17

http://www.411gina.org/mariabernadettealdridge.html

Maria Aldridge Bella's Lullaby played by Robert Pattinson - YouTube

Her sister , who now lives in Canada, might remember what kind of jewelry Maria owned.

Still_Seek_Answers
06-15-2013, 06:45 PM
I think that is an excellent Idea!!!! Maybe her sister could identify the jewelry........

AnotherSetOfEyes
06-28-2013, 02:07 AM
Somehow, someday, there will be a connection for Annie. I just believe that, for who knows what reason. Bumping the tread for her. Keeping hope that whoever is looking for Annie, crosses the path of this Websleuths thread.

carbuff
06-28-2013, 11:45 AM
I have been running searches on teenage runaways from 1969-1972. So far I have not found any that seem to match Annie. The more I look at her the less certain I am she is a teenager. I agree the scratching on the ring looks like something a teenager would do......the clothes found with her makes me think more of a young housewife. I am going to start searching 20-25 yr old woman who vanished in that time frame.....can't do any harm.

I agree, the clothes she's wearing give me the impression of a young suburban housewife heading out for a day's errands. If she had camped overnight with her husband and was getting ready for the next day's travel, that would fit.

AnotherSetOfEyes
06-30-2013, 06:17 PM
I agree, the clothes she's wearing give me the impression of a young suburban housewife heading out for a day's errands. If she had camped overnight with her husband and was getting ready for the next day's travel, that would fit.

Are you thinking a husband who made her disappear? Wouldn't he have to disappear as well, in order to avoid questions? IIRC there are several cases of girlfriend/boyfriend or classmates missing at the same time. But not from the West. Seems like they were all from the Midwest. I'll see if I can find them again.

deca
06-30-2013, 07:02 PM
If you look at many cases from the 50s and 60s of missing youngish women, it is surprising how many were married and had young children- and how many had their own birth families they were close too. Husband tells everyone, "Oh, I guess she left me!" Or, "She probably ran off with so-and-so" and it doesn't seem like LE did as much to find them as they did now, (probably because of the lack of technology).

All of a sudden, this young woman is gone...and then the stories come out. Husband had knocked her around a few times, her family/friends saw bruising, etc. Back in the day, I think people were more reluctant to get involved. Heck, look at some cases today like Susan Powell.


Anyways, I think it is a possibility and you don't have to limit yourself to look at husband-wife missing couples. I do still think she might have been a hitchhiker just trying to get from somewhere like Crescent City to Medford or Eugene. Common even now for young folk in Oregon since there isn't public transportation between most of the cities.