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View Full Version : TN TN - Jellico (Campbell Co.), WhtFem 482UFTN, 11-13, Near Big Wheel Gap Rd. Apr'85



anthrobones
07-09-2006, 05:33 PM
http://doenetwork.org/cases/482uftn.html

http://doenetwork.org/cases/images/482UFTN2.jpg

Unidentified White Female






The victim was discovered on April 3, 1985 in Campbell County, Tennessee
Estimated Date of Death: Between one year to 18 months prior to discovery
Partial skeletal remains



Vital Statistics





Estimated age: 9-15 years old
Clothing: There were a pair of boots recovered that were size 5, but they may not belong to the victim.
Dentals: Available</B>

Case History
The victim was located in Campbell County, Tennessee on April 3, 1985.

anthrobones
06-06-2008, 09:17 PM
Bumping up

Richard
06-07-2008, 04:24 PM
Unidentified White Female
The victim was discovered on April 3, 1985 in Campbell County, Tennessee
Estimated Date of Death: 1 to 4 years prior
Partial skeletal remains

Vital Statistics

Estimated age: 9-15 years old
Clothing: There were a pair of boots recovered that were size 5, but they may not belong to the victim.
Jewelry: Necklace, Bracelet
Fingerprints: Not Available
Dentals: Available
DNA: Pending

Case History

The victim was located in Campbell County, Tennessee on April 3, 1985.

Investigators

If you have any information about this case please contact:

University of TN Forensic Anthropology Center
Lee Jantz
865-974-4408

Email: ljantz@utk.edu

You may remain anonymous when submitting information.

Agency Case #:UT85-6F

Please refer to this number when contacting any agency with information regarding this case.

Source Information:

Joanna J. Hughes | Forensic Artist
NCMEC
UDRS
The Doe Network: Case File 482UFTN


Updated LINK:

http://doenetwork.org/cases/482uftn.html

Zanko
06-07-2008, 07:50 PM
Here is a list of missing children to consider:
Sarah Avon, Tammy Belanger, Tracy Byrd, Debra Cole, Amy Fandel, Christine Farni, Ann Gotlib, Raylene Helsley, Holly Hughes, Tricia Kellett, Charlotte Kinsey, Marjorie Luna, Sherry Marler, Toni McNatt-Chiappetta, Elizabeth Miller, Colleen Orsborn, Cindy Pallett, Tiffany Papesh, Dean Pyle Peters, Emma Vaughn.
I underlined the ones I thought were closer matches and put in bold the three I believe look most similar to the reconstruction.
Without more information, it's very difficult to find a match. Any unusual teeth? Any gaps? I wish there was more information about this child.

Zanko
06-08-2008, 07:51 PM
Here is a side by side comparison of my top three matches (on physical appearance only). http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z99/Zanko123/Campbellcountycomparisons.jpg

Zanko
06-08-2008, 09:03 PM
Sherry Marler was 13 years old when she went missing on June 6, 1984, from Greenville, Alabama. This is about 400 miles south of Campbell County, TN.

Raylene Helsey was also 13 years old when she went missing on January 5, 1983, from Ruston, LA. LE believe she was killed by her father and buried close to home. He claims she ran away after he admittedly beat her.

Charolette Kinsey was 13 years old when she went missing on September 26, 1981 from Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. She went missing with a friend after they attended a carnival. She had silver caps on her lower front teeth, so she could be ruled out easily if there were more information about this Jane Doe.

DawnTCB
07-16-2008, 08:39 PM
Our local news had this story, they have managed to do a facial reconstruction from some remains found 23 years ago. Investigators estimate this girl was 11 to 13 years old in 1984. The bones had been in the elements for a year at the time, which puts her born somewhere 1971-1973 according to their estimates. This girl would have been a year or two younger than me.

I thought I would post it here in case any of you guys have any thoughts.

Skeletal mystery: TBI seeks help in identifying girl (http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2008/jul/16/skeletal-mystery/)

http://media.knoxnews.com/kns/content/img/photos/2008/07/16/0716missign-girl1_t600.jpg

http://media.knoxnews.com/kns/content/img/photos/2008/07/16/0716missign-girl2_t600.jpg

The article says "Found with the remains were a bracelet, plastic buttons and some scraps of clothing."

Zanko
07-16-2008, 09:51 PM
I think there's another thread on her. Here is the comparisons I've posted. http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z99/Zanko123/Campbellcountycomparisons.jpg

Raylene Helsley, Charolette Kinsey and Sherry Marler

Sable
07-17-2008, 12:20 AM
Compare to: http://missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/PubCaseSearchServlet?act=viewChildDetail&caseNum=1087299&orgPrefix=NCMC&seqNum=1&caseLang=en_US&searchLang=en_US


http://missingkids.com/photographs/NCMC1087299c1.jpg

ELLEN LINDA AKERS
Case Type: Lost, Injured, Missing
DOB: Feb 26, 1966
Sex: Female
Missing Date: Apr 19, 1981
Race: White
Age Now: 42
Height: 5'4" (163 cm)
Missing City: ORMOND BEACH
Weight: 125 lbs (57 kg)
Missing State : FL
Hair Color: Blonde
Missing Country: United States
Eye Color: Green
Case Number: NCMC1087299
Circumstances: Ellen was last seen on April 19, 1981.

mere
07-17-2008, 09:00 AM
I can't believe how much the bust looks like Sherry Marler.

Synthia1021
07-17-2008, 10:54 AM
I agree! wow!

Debbie Miller
07-17-2008, 11:24 AM
I did call in a possible match of Raylene Hensley with this unidentified girl and was told that it is not a match.

mere
07-17-2008, 10:48 PM
It is hard to believe that a girl this young is is not identified. I can't wait for the day that there is a a complete DNA database to match the missing and unidentified.

Zanko
07-20-2008, 03:54 PM
Had some contact with LE. Sent in three names, Raylene Helsley, Sherry Marler and Charlotte Kinsey. The reply was that two were eliminated and the third needed to be looked at. So if one of those eliminated was Raylene, who's the other one? I sure think the composite looks like Sherry. Now we just wait and see on this one.

barb0301
07-21-2008, 01:59 AM
Duplicate thread w/ "Unidentified White Female, 1985 Texas connection? "

Should we try to get these 2 threads merged?

mjak
07-21-2008, 05:51 AM
How about this girl:
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/356dfmd.html

mjak

Intuition
08-26-2008, 04:15 PM
Has Ellen Linda Akers been eliminated as a possible match to the reconstruction of this victim located in April, 1985 in Tennessee? I see in the post above that her description is listed but do not see any updates after that. Both Ellen and the reconstruction are very similar in appearance.

barb0301
08-28-2008, 08:32 AM
Has Ellen Linda Akers been eliminated as a possible match to the reconstruction of this victim located in April, 1985 in Tennessee? I see in the post above that her description is listed but do not see any updates after that. Both Ellen and the reconstruction are very similar in appearance.

Hi Intuition, I can't find where Ellen has been eliminated in either this thread or the other one. I haven't seen any new updates on this case at all recently here in TX.

jules19osu
08-28-2008, 09:12 AM
I turned in Ellen Akers as a possible match back in June 2008 to the e-mail address on the doenetwork but I never heard anything back.

chaddylex
08-28-2008, 09:33 AM
Jules190osu,

Try and contact Rocky Wells with the Doe Network, he will respond back to you within a few days. (his email is in the contact info on their website) I actually turned in Cherie Mahan from PA on this UID and Rocky told me she was already ruled out.
Good Luck!!

Chaddylex :-)

shannon2008
01-24-2009, 12:19 AM
I was looking at this UID tonight and found the following information:

Melinda Creech (http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1297dfin.html) has been ruled out for this child.

http://s10.invisionfree.com/usedtobedoe/ar/t29264.htm

...and according to another post on a messageboard, investigators will consider someone missing since 1979.

http://s13.invisionfree.com/PorchlightUSA/ar/t3461.htm

If that's the case that's a lot of missing children that could be a possible match.

tamar
02-21-2009, 01:56 PM
I didn't see any previous posting on this one. I realize there is a big gap in missing date and estimated time of death, but the reconstruction is very close.


Unidentified White Female

The Doe Network: Case File 482UFTN
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/482uftn.html

The victim was discovered on April 3, 1985 in Campbell County, Tennessee
Estimated Date of Death: 1 to 4 years prior
Partial skeletal remains

Vital Statistics

Estimated age: 9-15 years old
Clothing: There were a pair of boots recovered that were size 5,
but they may not belong to the victim and a few scraps of clothing
Jewelry: Necklace, Bracelet made of plastic buttons.
Fingerprints: Not Available
Dentals: Available
DNA: Available at University North Texas


Case History

The victim was located by a passerby about 200 yards off Big Wheel Gap Road, four miles southwest of Jellico in Campbell County, Tennessee on April 3, 1985.
Only 32 bones were recovered, but her skull was intact enough for a head and face reconstruction.


Investigators

If you have any information about this case please contact:
University of TN Forensic Anthropology Center
Lee Jantz
865-974-4408
Email
You may remain anonymous when submitting information.

Agency Case #:
UT85-6F

__________________________________________________ ______________

The Doe Network: Case File 2241DFFL
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/2241dffl.html

Peggy Rahn
Missing since December 29, 1969 from Pompano Beach, Broward County, Florida
Classification: Endangered Missing


Vital Statistics

Date Of Birth: October 21, 1960
Age at Time of Disappearance: 9 years old
Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 4'4"; 67 lbs.
Distinguishing Characteristics: White female. Blonde hair; blue eyes.
Marks, Scars: Scar right eyebrow. Freckles.
Clothing: A wearing a blue and white checkered bikini.
Other: No fingerprints, dentals or DNA available.


Circumstances of Disappearance
Peggy and Wendy Stevenson vanished from Pompano Beach on December 29, 1969. They were last seen walking toward the beach parking lot to buy ice cream cones.
A day later, a clerk at a nearby convenience store reported a man buying ice cream for two young girls on the previous afternoon. The clerk identified photos of Peggy and Wendy, describing their companion as a white man in his 20s, six feet tall, around 200 pounds.
Serial-killer Gerald Schaefer was a suspect in the case. He was never charged, though prosecutors publicly accused him of the crime in 1973. Schaefer denied the slayings publicly, but later confessed in a letter dated April 19, 1989.


Investigators
If you have any information concerning this case, please contact:

Broward County Sheriff's Office
954-493-8477

Agency Case Number: PB69-915468

NCIC Number:
Please refer to this number when contacting any agency with information regarding this case.

Source Information:
FDLE
Crime Library
Florida Missing Children Information Clearinghouse

anthrobones
08-29-2009, 11:13 PM
Bumping up

ThunderFist
09-10-2009, 12:48 AM
The boots detail for me rules out two cases to be this girl - Colleen Orsborn and Marjorie Luna. I saw Marjorie Luna's case at my work (I work at Wal-Mart, and they display profiles of lost and exploited children), and through that case, I found out about Tammy Belanger and Colleen Orsborn. Of those three, only Tammy Belanger was described as wearing boots on the day she disappeared, but since she was only 8 at the time, this would disqualify her. Someone contacted Colleen Orsborn's family a few years ago and confessed to killing her and burying her in Florida, so in my mind, that would eliminate her as well. I would further eliminate Ann Gotlib from the list, as an inmate who served time with Gregory Oakley Jr. told police that Oakley had admitted to kidnapping Gotlib and later killing her by an injection of Talwin. Police have said that if Oakley were alive today, he would most likely be convicted of her murder with all the evidence they now have against him.

I also checked out the names that Zanko underlined, particularly the bold ones, and again, only one of them was described as wearing boots the day she disappeared, that being Raylene Helsley. Assuming the boots did belong to the victim, it seems Helsley would be a likely candidate. It's too bad we have so little to go on other than that and the facial reconstruction. It would help to know what those other scraps of clothing that were supposedly found were.

CCD
09-13-2009, 06:30 PM
I'm new to this whole UID thing, but how accurate are these facial reconstructions...because I can't see a resemblance between her and Raylene at all...could be just me though

BittysMomma
04-28-2010, 03:40 PM
I have never tried to do an ID before but I thought I would give it a try. This girl has a lot of the similar features. Eyes seem to be shaped the same as well as the nose. The mouth, in my very untrained eyes, is spot on. The main thing that bothered me about this possible match is the distance. The doe was found in Tennessee and Rachael went missing from New Hampshire. Also, there were boots found near the doe but Rachael was last seen wearing lace up shoes...but they did say the boots may not have belonged to the doe. The age fits, the timeline fits, the features seem to fit so I thought I would throw it out there to see what you guys that are experienced thought about it.

Doe Link
http://doenetwork.org/cases/482uftn.html

Rachael Elizabeth Garden
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/g/garden_rachael.html

Cymro
04-28-2010, 04:00 PM
I'm not too concerned about the shoes, either. Women's lace up shoes might easily be described boots if they have stylized, raised ankles.

I agree that the distance is a problem - it leads either to the idea of Rachael being a runaway (no evidence) or to the killer being a trucker or someone else with a reason to be traveling long distances.

Facially it looks good to me and it seems that the Doe was small enough, even though no height estimate was given, that she could be a younger child. At 5'1" and 100 lbs, Rachael certainly meets those criteria.

The age and timeline are slight stretches but not severely problematic.

Has anyone been able to find:

1. Should this be a CODIS rule out by default? Doe's DNA is at the University of North Texas but I can't find anything for Rachael;

2. Can Rachael's facial proportions be overlaid on the reconstruction? This is not an exact science but it could show if things are way off.

3. Does anyone have any background into the case that might suggest a runaway or a possible perp?

Edited to add: just found this article (http://www.seacoastonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071116/NEWS/711160415) which suggests that both a runaway scenario and local killers are possible. Certainly Rachael may have been troubled and vulnerable to an outside influence.

BittysMomma
04-28-2010, 04:12 PM
Of course I don't know this for sure but I was thinking that Rachael was not a runaway because apparently there was another girl from a nearby town that disappeared a month after Rachael did. They both had brown hair, both petite and both were about the same age. I know this probably means nothing but it tells a little about it at the bottom of Rachael's page. It says that there is no evidence that supports the cases are connected but I did agree when it said that it is worth noting. Also, the other girl has never been found either.

CarlK90245
04-28-2010, 05:51 PM
A few random thoughts:

Rachel Garden's name seems to show up alot as a possible to various teenaged female UID's from the early 80's all over the country. She looked like a strong possible for the Arroyo Grande Henderson NV jane doe (http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/258ufnv.html), but she was ruled out on that UID. I would be surprised if she wasn't considered for this one, but it's possible.

She is not on the NamUs rule-outs list, which doesn't necessarily mean that she hasn't been considered.

The NamUs DNA Section for the decedent says that the mtDNA sample is "Complete and Entered" by the Univ of Texas. Although it doesn't say CODIS, I think that it does mean CODIS. But Rachel Garden's NamUs file says that a DNA sample has not been taken. If that is correct, then we don't have a CODIS rule-out by default.

As for the visual comparison, the UID's eyes seem closer together than Rachel's and her face a little rounder. I tried an overlay comparison, and while it was close, it wasn't spot-on.

The circumstances seem pretty inconsistent with her showing up 1000 miles away from her disappearance. There were three male suspects and one of them confessed to her murder, but a body was never found. Maybe it was a false confession, but if there is any bit of truth to their story, it is highly unlikely that they would transport her body 1000 miles away.

BittysMomma
04-28-2010, 06:16 PM
A few random thoughts:

Rachel Garden's name seems to show up alot as a possible to various teenaged female UID's from the early 80's all over the country. She looked like a strong possible for the Arroyo Grande Henderson NV jane doe (http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/258ufnv.html), but she was ruled out on that UID. I would be surprised if she wasn't considered for this one, but it's possible.

She is not on the NamUs rule-outs list, which doesn't necessarily mean that she hasn't been considered.

The NamUs DNA Section for the decedent says that the mtDNA sample is "Complete and Entered" by the Univ of Texas. Although it doesn't say CODIS, I think that it does mean CODIS. But Rachel Garden's NamUs file says that a DNA sample has not been taken. If that is correct, then we don't have a CODIS rule-out by default.

As for the visual comparison, the UID's eyes seem closer together than Rachel's and her face a little rounder. I tried an overlay comparison, and while it was close, it wasn't spot-on.

The circumstances seem pretty inconsistent with her showing up 1000 miles away from her disappearance. There were three male suspects and one of them confessed to her murder, but a body was never found. Maybe it was a false confession, but if there is any bit of truth to their story, it is highly unlikely that they would transport her body 1000 miles away.

Thank you very much! The distance was my biggest hesitation between the two possibly being a match. My problem is that I've never tried anything like this before, though I am really interested in working with it, but even if I found a real possible match on someone I wouldn't know what to do, who to talk to and things such as that. I saw the similarities in the features and thought I would throw it out there for those of you who really seem to know what you're doing. I do appreciate all of you that have taken a look at my match. I just hate knowing that there are so many missing and so many unidentified people out there. I just want to help find them all lol. Again, thanks!

CCD
10-03-2010, 03:15 PM
I re-read this whole thread, I feel like this one is solvable. I'm new to this, so bear with me.
According to NamUs, the list of exclusions is as follows:
Tracy Byrd
Debra Cole
Melinda Creech
Ruth Ann Fields
Melanie Flynn
Rachael Garden
Ann Gotlib
Mary Ann Hogland-McCluskey
Barbra Jean Hunt
Tiffany Papesh
Kristi Vorak

This leaves the following people posters have mentioned before, that have gone missing between 1979-1984
Sarah Avon
Tammy Belanger
Raylene Helsley
Holly Hughes
Tricia Kellett
Charlotte Kinsey
Marjorie Luna
Sherry Marler
Toni McNatt-Chiappetta
Elizabeth Miller
Colleen Orsborn
Cinda Pallett
Dean Pyle Peters
Emma Vaughn

Based on the dentals, I think we could rule out Charlotte Kinsey, because it says that she had silver caps on her lower front teeth. The Doe appears to have unaltered teeth in that location.
Emma Vaughn also had extensive dental work, where as the teeth that the doe had remaining were relatively in tact.... would it be fair to rule her out too?
It also says that Cinda Pallett had broken her collarbone, and the Doe seems to have had no previous broken bones. Both the NamUs page and the Doe Network page makes no reference to broken bones. Then again, not all the bones were recovered.
I'm also kind of leaning towards the fact that Sarah Avon, Tammy Belanger,Tricia Kellett, and Marjorie Luna would be too young to be this Doe, JMHO.
Any thoughts on any of this?

Anubis
10-06-2010, 06:17 PM
I read this story and had a disturbing thought. I wonder how many children are murdered by their own parents/caregivers and it is never reported.

I also do not understand, in this day and age of such advanced technology in this great country, we cannot come up with a database to input all of this info. I know there are people who would gladly volunteer their time to gather and input the information. I wish I was a billionaire. It would be my life's work, I tell ya.

ThunderFist
10-07-2010, 09:25 PM
From what I've seen Tricia Kellett may be safe to rule out also, since she had a significant gap between her front teeth. Do we know that much about the teeth to know what their positioning is? I know we've already said she may well be too young to be the Doe, but I thought I'd throw it out anyway. Dean Pyle Peters bears some resemblance to the Doe, but her distance makes me doubt that she is the one found. Dean disappeared from Michigan, which is quite a distance from Tennessee. I still keep going back to Raylene Helsley even though those lie detector tests said she was likely buried a mile and 1/2 from her home... although it's strange that she's never been found if she's that close. The fact that she was said to be buried has made doubt that the Doe is her, but the boots again made me ponder today. Raylene was said to be 4'11", or in one report they said 5'0" in height, and the average shoe size for a girl 5'0" tall, I believe, is about a size 5. Assuming the boots do belong to the Doe, they would be about her size.

Another one that I never really considered until a couple of nights ago was Sherry Marler. When taking another look, I did see a little bit of resemblance to the Doe in the eyes and nose region, plus there's the matter that she lived in Alabama, which would put her in closer proximity to where the Doe was found than many of the other candidates. There's a quick reflection of what I've gathered after looking into everyone again.

Anubis
10-08-2010, 01:58 PM
Given where the bones were found, and in close proximity to a major freeway running northeast-south (75), this child could be from several areas. However, Big Wheel Gap Road does not connect directly to the highway and I could not find a good map to compare. Otherwise, the area where she was found is well up a very long, fairly unihabited road. Doenetwork is very frustrating at times. I love the "located by a passerby 200 yards off Big Wheel.." really? a passerby? LOL Someone taking a pee perhaps? Long way off the road for a pee. A picture of the necklace and bracelet would be nice. A color (if any) of the "scraps of clothes" would be nice.

aprilmillwood
10-08-2010, 02:28 PM
Just wondering I do not see Karen Reinert listed as a possible. She went missing in 1979. PA is not that far from Tennesse. I am not sure if KAren has dentals available.
Just a thought.

Anubis
10-08-2010, 02:28 PM
I'm new to this whole UID thing, but how accurate are these facial reconstructions...because I can't see a resemblance between her and Raylene at all...could be just me though

Accurate to 90% most of the time. However, not admissible in trial as expert testimony. I have seen reconstructions done that were amazingly close to the real victim.

Anubis
10-08-2010, 02:39 PM
It would be great if the FBI had a DNA database for parents of missing persons. That way it would be just a matter of inputting DNA results from the unidentified into the database for comparison (obviously on cases where DNA has been determined).

CarlK90245
10-08-2010, 02:53 PM
Just wondering I do not see Karen Reinert listed as a possible. She went missing in 1979. PA is not that far from Tennesse. I am not sure if KAren has dentals available.
Just a thought.

Warren County NJ Authorities are currently trying to get identifiers on Karen Reinert to compare to Princess Doe (DoeNet Case 36UFNJ). AFAIK, they are still waiting. But Lt. Spiers (the investigator in charge of Princess Doe case) told me that he would let me know if he gets any info on her.

CCD
10-12-2010, 09:24 PM
It would be great if the FBI had a DNA database for parents of missing persons. That way it would be just a matter of inputting DNA results from the unidentified into the database for comparison (obviously on cases where DNA has been determined).

I agree 100%. I think we could get a lot of Does claimed that way.

sorry, aprilmillwood, I was just compiling a list based on what had been thrown out there already.

I also have a gut feeling that this doe was never reported missing. I'm not going to give up the fact that she may be listed somewhere...she deserves to have a name

CarlK90245
10-12-2010, 09:47 PM
It would be great if the FBI had a DNA database for parents of missing persons. That way it would be just a matter of inputting DNA results from the unidentified into the database for comparison (obviously on cases where DNA has been determined).

There is such a system. It's called CODIS. CODIS has been credited with the resolution of thousands of crimes and missing persons cases. (See Link).

http://dna.devis.com/solving-crimes/cold-cases/howdatabasesaid/codis/

reasypeasy
10-13-2010, 04:53 AM
Doenetwork now says the necklace and bracelet were made of plastic buttons.
If it looks like a homemade necklace, I think they should definitely post pictures of it!

I spent hours as a kid playing with my grandmother's button jar, which later became my mother's button jar. This is not an uncommon experience. If a kid made a necklace from that jar, chances are I would recognise several of the more distinctive buttons, especially since they would probably have been ones that also appealed to me as a kid. I suspect many women would be able to recognise a necklace made by a child from the contents of a button jar they are familiar with.

Cubby
12-18-2010, 05:36 PM
bump ..

webrocket
02-18-2011, 11:58 PM
here is the Namus link for the UID:

https://identifyus.org/cases/1577

Peggy Rahn's name is not on the rule out list. Tamar gave no indication whether she submitted the possible match.

webrocket
06-30-2011, 06:39 PM
I did not see a link to Namus for this UID so here it is:

https://identifyus.org/cases/1577

since CCD listed the rule-outs in october 2010, Sherry Marler has been added to the list of rule-outs.

CCD
09-25-2011, 07:12 PM
Just another quick update - Donna Barnhill has been added to the list of NAMUS rule outs. I also re-read the whole thread and a member said she had called in Raylene Helsley and she had been ruled out - can anyone else confirm that?

That being said, I think we are down to the following:
Ellen Akers
Sarah Avon
Tammy Belanger
Charlotte Kinsey
Marjorie Luna
Toni McNatt-Chiappetta
Elizabeth Miller
Cinda Pallett
Dean Pyle Peters
Karen Reinert
Emma Vaughn

not_my_kids
10-14-2011, 10:27 AM
If Raylene has been officially ruled out, it would be good to get her on the rule out list. The bust of the UID is similar to Raylene in a lot of ways, and even though it is quite likely that her father did kill her, it's also possible that he sold her. And at the time, murder convictions without a body were harder to come by, so why worry about confessing, since he knew that even with a confession, no body meant he'd likely walk on the murder. She was found near a biker camp, IIRC, so it isn't completely outside the realm of possibility. Maybe I can call the detective on the case and ask again if Raylene is a definite rule out or if she was ruled out on the basis of a hunch or a detectives belief. It says on Namus that Raylene's DNA has been submitted, and I don't understand what they mean in terms of the UID's DNA. It says: "full mtDNA profile at NDIS; no STR data obtained after multiple attempts." I have no idea what that means, or if either one is in CODIS.

traacker13
10-26-2011, 02:58 PM
Is it possible that these two decedents could have been sisters?

One UID was found in Cheatham County, Tennessee in 1981 and one UID was found in Campbell County, Tennessee in 1985.

Is it possible that these girls could be the missing Lyon sisters, Sheila and Katherine Lyon who disappeared from Maryland in 1975?

Katherine Lyon: http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/65dfmd.html
Sheila Lyon: http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/64dfmd.html

CarlK90245
10-28-2011, 02:26 PM
Is it possible that these two decedents could have been sisters?

One UID was found in Cheatham County, Tennessee in 1981 and one UID was found in Campbell County, Tennessee in 1985.

Is it possible that these girls could be the missing Lyon sisters, Sheila and Katherine Lyon who disappeared from Maryland in 1975?

Katherine Lyon: http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/65dfmd.html
Sheila Lyon: http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/64dfmd.html

There is DNA available for the Lyon sisters. No indication of whether they are in CODIS, but if so, it would presumably be a rule-out by default.

But perhaps they might be Peggy Rahn and/or her friend Wendy Brown Stevenson.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/r/rahn_peggy.html
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/s/stevenson_wendy.html


http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/r/rahn_peggy.htmlhttp://www.charleyproject.org/images/s/stevenson_wendy.jpg

Neither Peggy nor Wendy have DNA or Dentals available according to DoeNet:
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/2241dffl.html
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/2242dffl.html

And like the Lyon sisters, neither are listed on the NamUs exclusions lists.

https://identifyus.org/cases/1577
https://identifyus.org/cases/1582

Tamar spotted Peggy Rahn as a possible to the Campbell County Jane Doe, and started this Possible Match thread:

Possible Match TN- UID Female 482UFTN, Campbell County, 1985 to: FL- Peggy Rahn, Pompano Beach, 1969


The similarity in facial shapes between Peggy and the Campbell County Doe is amazing.

http://doenetwork.org/cases/482uftn.html

http://doenetwork.org/cases/images/482UFTN.jpghttp://www.charleyproject.org/images/r/rahn_peggy2.jpg

... and here is the side-by side of Wendy Brown Stevenson to the Cheatham County Doe
(:offtopic: with regard to this thread)

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/566uftn.html

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/images/566UFTN.jpghttp://www.charleyproject.org/images/s/stevenson_wendy.jpg

The problem is the timeline. For these Jane Does to be Peggy and Wendy, they would have had to have been dead for 15 and 12 years, respectively. The postmortem interval for the Campbell County Jane Doe is 1-4 years, so I can see that perhaps they made an error in the PMI in this case. However, the Cheatham County Doe is estimated to have been dead only a few months. I doubt that they would make that big of an error in this case.

traacker13
10-28-2011, 02:53 PM
Wow - Peggy Rahn does resemble the reconstruction! I am trying to see Wendy Stevenson in the reconstruction but I am having difficulties with the chin lines. I think Wendy's chin line is pointed where the UID's chin line is more squared. The eyes also seem closer together on the UID and Wendy's seem further apart.
I agree about the timeline too - I think it would be a stretch.

I also notice that Peggy Rahn and Katherine Lyon resemble each other a lot IMO!

CarlK90245
10-28-2011, 07:00 PM
Here's the morphing overlay of Peggy Rahn to the Campbell County Doe:

Campbell County Peggy Rahn - YouTube

Zanko
10-28-2011, 08:49 PM
Does it say that Peggy Rahn has a DNA sample? The physical comparison between the photo of Peggy and UID 482UFTN is very compelling, but the time line is so off. Wouldn't Peggy have been old enough to be UID 482UFTN's mother? Or have I somehow gotten things confused. If Peggy has MtDNA this horrible possibility could be ruled out. But --wow, how close of a physical match can you get?

CarlK90245
10-28-2011, 10:57 PM
Does it say that Peggy Rahn has a DNA sample?

According to DoeNet, they don't have fingerprints, dentals or DNA on Peggy Rahn.

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/2241dffl.html


Wouldn't Peggy have been old enough to be UID 482UFTN's mother? Or have I somehow gotten things confused?

If the postmortem interval (i.e., 1-4 years) was accurate, yes - she would have been too old.

In order to make the case that this is Peggy, the presumption would be that the PM interval was underestimated.

But we just recently saw a person ID'd (Beddie Walraven) whose skull was found in the California desert in 1971 with an estimated PM interval of 1-10 years. It turned out that she died in 1946 (i.e., 25 years prior).

Identified! CA - Baker - Female Skeletal Found in Desert Jan 1971 - Beddie Walraven (Died 1946)

CarlK90245
10-29-2011, 12:07 AM
I found these three articles (Dated 09-Jan-1970, 29-Jan-1970, and 13-Feb-1970) in Ancestry.com.

http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q697/Carlkopp90245/Docs%20and%20Articles/2329170690045078242S600x600Q851.jpg

Interesting that the suspect, Kenneth Guy Shilts of Battle Creek MI was arrested in Alabama a couple of months after the disappearance, which occurred in southern Florida. He carried a diary which contained an entry "Peggy and Wendy - Pompano Beach". The Charley writeup on the two girls focuses on Gerald Schaefer Jr. as the probable perp.

But if Shilts is the perp, it is not inconceivable that he transported at least one of them up to Tennessee, considering that he was known to be a drifter who traveled state to state.

ETA:

Here's another from the Kingsport Times dated 12-Feb-1970

http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q697/Carlkopp90245/Docs%20and%20Articles/2835675480045078242S600x600Q851.jpg

Zanko
10-29-2011, 01:18 PM
Thanks for the articles CarlK90245. Let us know if you find anything more about the drifter and what came of that.

CarlK90245
10-29-2011, 01:31 PM
Thanks for the articles CarlK90245. Let us know if you find anything more about the drifter and what came of that.

He died in 1991, but no mention of whether he was convicted of any of the 50 molestations of which he was suspected.

http://www.histopolis.com/Grave/Detail.aspx?GraveID=736835184

tamar
11-01-2011, 04:38 AM
just catching up on this thread... I didn't submit Peggy as a possible match (at least I can't find a record in my emails of any submission). I didn't get much of a response when I posted the original thread, which I figure was due to the significant difference in the estimated date of death. However, seeing Carl's overlay gives me pause-- the resemblance is just so compelling. Also, the age range for the UID is 9 to 14 years so the gap could be reduced with the possibility that Peggy was held for a long period and then murdered.

I feel out of my element when dealing with LE or ME so I avoid it unless all (or most) identifiers line up, but if anyone else would like to take this ball and run with it, please feel free.

This little girl has gone unidentified long enough and perhaps it is as simple as a mistake in the time line that has kept her nameless all these years.

p.s. I also think it is noteworthy that Katherine Lyon and Peggy Rahn so strongly resemble each other. Same age, same coloring, same hair style, both from southern states, only 6 years between abductions, etc...

tamar
11-01-2011, 04:40 AM
that smiling photo of Peggy in that article should be added to the Doe Network and Namus pages.

CarlK90245
12-08-2011, 05:02 PM
I just spoke with Lee Jantz of the Univ of Tennessee, Knoxville. She is the NamUs case manager for this case.

I asked her how certain they were about the postmortem interval. She says that the skull had been there for at least a year and a half. The bones were dry and had no odor, and there was a wasp's nest in the cranial vault (which would be unlikely with fresher remains). She said the upper-end of the timeframe (i.e., 3-5 years) was based on the relatively good condition of the bones. They were not badly weathered.

She said that they had thought they had a match to a "Kentucky girl" (who I am presuming to be Ann Gotlib) based on an image overlay of the skull to her photo, but when they got dentals to compare, she turned out not to be a match.

I gave her the names of Peggy Rahn, and the Lyon Sisters (Sheila and Katherine), and told her that the timeframes were probably too long based on what she had just told me.

She took the names down and said that she would check them out. Even if they are unlikely, they should be positively ruled out anyway.

She says that she hasn't had time recently to look into these cases. She is a college professor, and there are exams currently taking place and students chomping at the bit to find out how they did on the exams. But when the rush is over with, she will look into these submissions, and a couple others that I submitted a couple of weeks ago on a different UID.

She also said that contrary to what is said in this Jane Doe's NamUs file, they have both Nuclear (nucDNA) and Mitochondrial (mtDNA) on her. However, since the nucDNA profile was extracted at Bode Laboratories (a private company), they cannot enter it in CODIS. CODIS only accepts DNA profile information from Univ of North Texas and the various state labs. Consequently, nucDNA comparisons are done manually, and mtDNA comparisons are handled in CODIS.

Irish_Eyes
12-08-2011, 05:07 PM
That's a good bit of useful info, about CODIS and private DNA labs.

pepagirl
01-06-2012, 01:44 AM
Has anyone ever proposed David Warner for this UID? I know he's male, but bigger mistakes have been made. The timeline seems pretty close and the areas are only an hour and a half apart. Thoughts?

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/4361dmtn.html



David Warner
Missing since March 2, 1983 from Jefferson City, Tennessee
Classification: Endangered Missing



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Vital Statistics

Date Of Birth: January 30, 1971
Age at Time of Disappearance: 12 years old
Distinguishing Characteristics: White male. Blond hair; dark eyes. Slender build.
Clothing: Blue jeans, a black and white Pittsburgh Steelers sweatshirt and tennis shoes.
Dentals: Buck teeth.
Medical: Epilepsy
AKA: Little David


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Circumstances of Disappearance
On March 2, 1983 David Warner planned to go to a function at a small independent church a few doors up the street from his Beeler Avenue home. David walked up to the church but didn't go in, then, he went on up the street. He went to Druther's Restaurant in Jefferson City, and got a hamburger. Later, he watched TV at a friend's house until 19.00, then told the friend he was going to his house, about 30 yards away.

The next morning his family discovered he was not at home, although his bed covers were bundled up in a way that could be viewed as a ploy to make it appear he was in bed.
At first, police thought David had gone off with some friends, or maybe run away.
Authorities launched a massive search, but no trace of David was ever found.
Foul play is suspected.

eileenhawkeye
01-06-2012, 04:15 AM
I know she was already mentioned but I do see a resemblance between Toni and the Jane Doe. Also, looking at the circumstances of her abduction, it's possible that she was abducted by someone who is driving through town...and then he drove down to Tennessee....

Toni Lynn McNatt-Chiapetta? http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/m/mcnatt-chiapetta_toni.html

CherBearSTL
01-06-2012, 09:55 AM
I know she was already mentioned but I do see a resemblance between Toni and the Jane Doe. Also, looking at the circumstances of her abduction, it's possible that she was abducted by someone who is driving through town...and then he drove down to Tennessee....

Toni Lynn McNatt-Chiapetta? http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/m/mcnatt-chiapetta_toni.html

I think she's worth looking at. Her eyes look different then the UID, but I'm not sure how much this matters. The bracelet would probably be a good clue...I bet someone would know if that was Toni's.

flying.sleuth
03-29-2012, 10:02 AM
There is DNA from her mother available. I do not know if it is in CODIS but the FBI took the sample about 6 years ago. According the the Det working the cold case in Broward Co.

CarlK90245
04-04-2012, 01:09 PM
Is it possible that these two decedents could have been sisters?

One UID was found in Cheatham County, Tennessee in 1981 and one UID was found in Campbell County, Tennessee in 1985.

Is it possible that these girls could be the missing Lyon sisters, Sheila and Katherine Lyon who disappeared from Maryland in 1975?

Katherine Lyon: http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/65dfmd.html
Sheila Lyon: http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/64dfmd.html


There is DNA available for the Lyon sisters. No indication of whether they are in CODIS, but if so, it would presumably be a rule-out by default.

But perhaps they might be Peggy Rahn and/or her friend Wendy Brown Stevenson.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/s/stevenson_wendy.html
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/r/rahn_peggy.html

...

Speaking of this case being possibly related with another UID case in connection with related MP cases:

Perhaps Victoria Sanchez could be the Campbell County Jane Doe:

http://www.charleyproject.org/images/s/sanchez_victoria.jpghttp://media.knoxnews.com/kns/content/img/photos/2008/07/16/0716missign-girl1_t600.jpg
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/s/sanchez_victoria.html

... and her friend Yvonne Mestas, the Bowling Green Jane Doe. (which I already suggested on that thread):

http://www.charleyproject.org/images/m/mestas_yvonne2.jpghttp://doenetwork.org/cases/images/526UFKY.jpg
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/m/mestas_yvonne.html

KY KY - Bowling Green - Female 526UFKY, 12-20, July 1984


The timelines of both UID cases are reasonably consistent to the Mestas/Sanchez DLC.

Aside from the difference in ethnicity, both girls are consistent to the respective UID cases in terms of age, height, etc. I have seen other instances where UID's classified as Caucasian have turned out to be Hispanic (and vice-versa). The differences in skull structure between Hispanics and Caucasians are not as notable as the differences between other races.

Bowling Green KY and Campbell County TN are about 200 miles apart, and are located near a logical route to the Southern Atlantic coast from Southern Colorado (i.e., I-70 to I-84).

http://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=Rocky+Ford,+CO&daddr=Bowling+Green+KY+to:Campbell+County+TN&hl=en&ll=32.657876,-93.339844&spn=28.562071,44.780273&sll=37.709075,-93.892245&sspn=13.493866,22.390137&geocode=FZyiRAId3VrR-SnFNbui0w8ShzFseZtbVqSm7Q%3BFXBtNAIdrvnY-inT5PrpvOhliDFPLHkgkKwKpw%3BFSUkKwIdkG37-imb2kmGq6xdiDHQIgEStRjLBQ&gl=us&mra=ls&t=m&z=5

traacker13
04-04-2012, 01:56 PM
Wow, Carl!!! This looks like a good match and would make the most logical sense as to the possibility that these are connected. I think you should def. call this in! I especially see the resemblence with Yvonne to the Bowling Green Jane Doe. I can see it with Victoria Sanchez and the Campbell County Jane Doe too.

CarlK90245
04-04-2012, 01:59 PM
Wow, Carl!!! This looks like a good match and would make the most logical sense as to the possibility that these are connected. I think you should def. call this in! I especially see the resemblence with Yvonne to the Bowling Green Jane Doe. I can see it with Victoria Sanchez and the Campbell County Jane Doe too.

I called in the possible of Yvonne to BGJD a couple of months ago. I know it is being looked at.

Cartersmina
04-10-2012, 05:06 AM
I think there was a mistake when it was reported that Charlotte Kinsey had silver caps on her lower front teeth. She may have had caps on the sides but I strongly feel that she did not have any in the front. I'm her sister I am much younger but our sister that is 4yrs older then Charlotte said she doesnt recall any silver caps in the front and we havent found any pictures of her with caps in the front. I called to get a DNA exclusion. I still havent heard back

Cartersmina
04-11-2012, 12:27 AM
Had some contact with LE. Sent in three names, Raylene Helsley, Sherry Marler and Charlotte Kinsey. The reply was that two were eliminated and the third needed to be looked at. So if one of those eliminated was Raylene, who's the other one? I sure think the composite looks like Sherry. Now we just wait and see on this one.

I can only find one of the three sent in on the excluded list. I called and ask for a DNA camparision on my sister Charlotte Kinsey several weeks ago and am still waiting to get the results. Does anyone know if Raylene was excluded? They said Charlotte had not been excluded when I called.

mysteriew
04-11-2012, 12:48 AM
When looking at this case, I would suggest looking at southern Ohio missing also.

I live in southern Ohio. And over the years there has been a migration of Ky. and Tenn people coming north to find work as Ohio has more industry. But the people of Tenn and Ky hold strong ties to Ky and Tenn, return frequently to visit and etc. And 75 is a straight shot to Tenn and goes right through Campbell Cty.

Campbell Cty residents feel that people from other areas may see Campbell Cty as a good dump site because parts are so isolated.

chaddylex
04-11-2012, 09:29 AM
The whole reason why I started looking at matching the unidentified to missing people was because of Cherie Mahan, missing from my area. The first possible match I turned in was this UID, comparing to Cherie. It was years ago, I wish I remember who I contacted. (I think it might have been Rocky Wells at Doe Network) I think she was ruled out but I thought they resembled eachother, and Cherie was last seen wearing boots, and the UID was found with a pair of nearby. Cherie was 8 when she went missing, and I believe she was just too little and young to be this UID, even though the Doe Network says the UID age is between 9-15, and NamUS says 10-14. Cherie also isn't on the ruleout list.... Here is Cherie's charley profile.http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/m/mahan_cherrie.html

chaddylex
04-11-2012, 10:41 AM
I can only find one of the three sent in on the excluded list. I called and ask for a DNA camparision on my sister Charlotte Kinsey several weeks ago and am still waiting to get the results. Does anyone know if Raylene was excluded? They said Charlotte had not been excluded when I called.

Cartermina,

Here are the list of ruleouts from NamUs, last updated March 28th

Donna Barnhill
Tracy Byrd
Debra J Cole
Melina Creech
Ruth Ann Fields
Melanie Flynn
Rachel Garden
Anna Gotlib
Mary Ann Hogland-McCluskey
Barbra Jean Pauley Hunt
Patricia LeBlanc
Sherry Marler
Tiffany Papesh
Kristi Vorak 1969

Cartersmina
04-11-2012, 01:28 PM
When I was little I rember hearing that at one point Royal Russell Long had told a cell mate that he had put Charlotte and Cinda in an old oil well shaft. I dont know it to be fact but I rember hearing the conversation. I dont think he dumped them together, because when Christy Gross was found her friends' remains were not at the same location. I tried backtracking, I listed all the girls that police thought he had abducted, most were never found but 2 were, I was trying to figure out how much effort he put into dumping/hiding the girls afterwards.

Richard
08-31-2012, 09:09 AM
It has been suggested by another websleuther, MissSunshine, that the following missing girl might be a match with the Campbell County Jane Doe:

Shannon Lee Potter, 13, Missing since March 3, 1984 from Baltimore, MD

Not mentioned in this case summary is that the family recieved a postcard postmarked about a week after Shannon's disappearance from Florida. This could mean that Shannon or her abductor may have traveled from Maryland to Florida immediately following her disappearance.

Shannon went missing almost exactly a year before the discovery of Campbell County Jane Doe.

There is also some discussion about Campbell County Jane Doe in this "Unidentified" section on a thread titled "Greene County Jane Doe". That unidentified teenaged girl was found the same time as the Campbell County body, and only two counties away. Could both homicides be related?

---------------------------------------
Shannon Lee Potter
Missing since March 3, 1984 from Baltimore, Maryland
Classification: Non-Family Abduction

Vital Statistics

Date Of Birth: July 20, 1970
Age at Time of Disappearance: 13 years old
Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 5'5; 140 pounds
Distinguishing Characteristics: White female. Brown hair; brown eyes.
Marks, Scars: Scars on her abdomen and near her left eye. Fractured pelvis.
Clothing: Shannon may have been wearing high khaki boots and a white fur coat.
Dentals: Available.
DNA: Available.

Circumstances of Disappearance

Potter was last seen in her hometown of Baltimore, Maryland on March 3, 1984.
She lived with her mother in Parkville, and she left home one night through a bedroom window, leaving a note.

Her family thought she'd go stay with her father or someone else in the family. Foul play is suspected.

Investigators
If you have any information concerning Potter's whereabouts, please contact:

Baltimore County Police Department
Unit's Unsolved Case Squad
410-887-3943

Email: bcopd@co.ba.md.us

All information may be submitted anonymously.

Agency Case Number: 08E114810

NCMEC #: NCMC601868

NCIC Number: M217369344


Please refer to this number when contacting any agency with information regarding this case.

Source Information:
The National Center For Missing and Exploited Children
Baltimore County
Florida Missing Children Information Clearinghouse
The Doe Network: Case File 356DFMD

LINK:

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/356dfmd.html

Richard
08-31-2012, 09:17 AM
Here is a link to the Websleuths thread on the Greene County (Tennessee) Jane Doe also found in April 1985. Could there be a connection?


TN TN - Greene County - White Female 264UFTN, 15-17, 6-Wks Pregnant - Apr'85 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

kdsmith21
01-14-2013, 04:53 PM
I read I believe in Namus report that the boots were described as "hiking" type boots.. not cowboy boots. So, probably not Raylene. But hiking boots are generally "lace up" boots, so that would not rule out someone that is missing that was described as having "lace up shoes".

chaddylex
01-15-2013, 10:06 AM
NamUs has this UID as having 16 ruleouts.. Shannon Potter was added to the list. Raylene Hensley & Cherie Mahan still have not...

https://identifyus.org/en/cases/1577

Here is the list:

Donna Barnhill
Tracy Byrd
Debra J Cole
Ruth Ann Fields
Melanie Flynn
Rachel Garden
Anna Gotlib
Mary Ann Hogland-McCluskey
Barbra Jean Pauley Hunt
Charlotte Kinsey
Patricia LeBlanc
Sherry Marler
Tiffany Papesh
Shannon Potter
Kristi Vorak

chaddylex
01-15-2013, 11:16 AM
What about this girl, Sherry Young missing since June 1, 1984 from Orlando Florida. https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/3137/5/

She was 13 years old when she went missing. The picture they have in NamUs must be from when she was younger..

Here are side by side pics of Sherry and the UID

29175 29176


What do you think of her?

Fuuro
02-24-2013, 04:14 AM
Here are some ladies who may be matches:
1.) Joan Leigh Hall, missing since 1983 at age 17 from Oregon:
http://i.imgur.com/FVhUqWU.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ALz7ACt.jpg

Consistencies:
Out of all of these young women, I think Joan looks like Jellico Jane the most. The eyes and the nose look especially similar. Timeframe works.
Joan's age is close to the doe's estimated age. (seventeen vs around 15)

Inconsistencies:
The distance is way off. Joan either would have had to run away and die in TN in or get abducted, taken there, and get murdered by her abductor(s).
There is no mention of button jewelry in Joan's Charley Project casefile, but that should be taken as a grain of salt since there would have had to be a long passage of time before the body was dumped in the area. (Unless she was killed in Oregon and dumped in Tennessee, which would be plain weird, because it would be easier to dump her body in Oregon or one of the neighboring states even.

2.) Kathryn Mae Quackenbush, 17, missing since 1981 from Maryland:
http://i.imgur.com/6ykMLNX.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ALz7ACt.jpg

Consistencies:
Very similar face. Her age is close to the Jane Doe's estimated age, and the passage of time checks out.

Inconsistencies:
Kathryn disappeared from an area that is far away from where the doe was located.
Again, no mention about jewelry in her casefile.



3.) Marjorie Christina Luna, age 8, missing from Florida since 1984:/B]
http://i.imgur.com/6ZYt434.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/ALz7ACt.jpg

Consistencies:
Marjorie's age is close to the estimated age of the Jane Doe. Her nose looks very similar to the doe's, but her eyes aren't as close together. The timeframe is working.

Inconsistencies:
The eyes aren't close enough together.
Marjorie disappeared from Florida, which is not as far away as the other girls that I mentioned before, but still far. Her abductor would've needed to get through another state before reaching Tennessee, not to mention the fact that Greenacres City, FL is on the East Coast, meaning the abductor would've needed to travel within Florida a lot to even get to Alabama.
No mention of button jewelry again.


[B]4.) Wendy Lynn Huggy, age 16, missing from Florida since 1981:

http://i.imgur.com/hfaUL4t.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/ALz7ACt.jpg

Consistencies:
Age is very close to the estimated age of the JD.
Face shape is very alike, but the nose is stubbed on the bottom, while the JD's nose is more pointy. The eyes are also not as close.

Inconsistencies:
Even though her location is probably the closest to the location of the JD (her location leads directly to Alabama, unlike Luna's, she's still very far away from where the body was found.
The nose is slightly off.
The eyes are far apart.
Wendy was pregnant, but I wonder if it would make a difference considering only 32 of the doe's bones were found.

:twocents:

(I don't know much about facial shape, please correct me if I'm wrong :v)

bflocket
02-24-2013, 12:28 PM
Anubis mentioned this a while back (#34). Anyway, I just can't picture where this poor girl was found. The road is hard to find on online maps (i.e. it's visible on one "topo/terrain," "satellite image" or "map" view but not the other view of the same area). I know where Big Wheel Gap (the actual land formation) is and sometimes there is a road labelled there and sometimes not.

One of the possible reasons the maps are so erratic is that (from looking at the aerial photos) the entire area is spotted with strip mining. It could have literally changed the landscape and cut off the road. Or it could have made living up there unfeasible and the roads are no longer maintained.

In relation to this Doe, whether the place is still around as it was or not, the gap or any road through it would NEVER have been "easily accessible" to anyone that would qualify as a mere "passerby." A truck with 4WD could perhaps make it up there. Some places looked like you might need a smaller 4-Wheeler to pass.

Could she have been found by a mining speculator? Someone going to an old family cememtery?
Or could there be another "Wheel Gap" around Campbell county that it could be? I know there are variations of either "Stone Gap" or "Rock Gap" and other gaps that neighboring counties may have with the same name

CarlK90245
02-24-2013, 12:40 PM
It looks like Big Wheel Gap Road is where Capuchin Creek Road hits a dead-end.

Definitely not a place where someone would go if they were just passing through.

chaddylex
03-01-2013, 03:45 PM
I received an email from NamUs that this UID has two more rule outs added to the list. It looks like Debra Pscholka from California & Melina Creech are the exclusions.

Fuuro
03-02-2013, 01:17 AM
Here's an updated list with more people that isn't as in depth as before:
Joan Hall, Katherine Sybil Worsky, Kase Ann Lee (stranger things have happened), Yvonne Mestas (as stated before in this thread), Victoria Lenore Sanchez, Kathryn Mae Quackenbush, Wendy Huggy, Jennifer Sophia Marteliz, Sharon Baldeagle, Tammy Sue Rothganger, Dean Peters (same as the Sanchez/Mestas), Selinda Winegar, Kimberly King, Tina Faye Kemp, Sandra Butler

little lulu
03-03-2013, 08:52 PM
Sorry if this has been brought up before, but found in the same county..and the same year is this girl:
https://identifyus.org/en/cases/1579

bflocket
03-04-2013, 08:42 AM
Sorry if this has been brought up before, but found in the same county..and the same year is this girl:
https://identifyus.org/en/cases/1579

That's not this girl. Campbell Co has an unusually high number of murder victims found there. Really rugged but has a major north/south Interstate going through it.

bflocket
04-02-2013, 07:51 PM
[B]3.) Marjorie Christina Luna, age 8, missing from Florida since 1984:/B]
http://i.imgur.com/6ZYt434.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/ALz7ACt.jpg

...Her abductor would've needed to get through another state before reaching Tennessee, not to mention the fact that Greenacres City, FL is on the East Coast, meaning the abductor would've needed to travel within Florida a lot to even get to Alabama.


Where'd you get Alabama from?
I-75 actually goes to Miami, though goes in a roundabout way in Florida. Just take I-95 up to I-10 to 75. That's how we'd go whenever my family would go somewhere on the east coast of Florida (from central KY).
It would be an easy ride. Other things could rule her out, but that route would be a straight shot for any going from Greenacres to somewhere in "the north" not on the east coast. I-75 wiggles around in southern FL but other than that it is a pretty straight route from Florida to Canada.

Earth
08-06-2014, 03:05 PM
I think I have someone who does look a bit like the girl.

Sarah Avon
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/a/avon_sarah.html

Missing Since Jul 21, 1981
Missing From Joliet, IL
DOB Jan 6, 1975
Age Now 39
Sex Female
Race White
Hair Color Blonde
Eye Color Brown
Height 4'0"
Weight 45 lbs
Sarah was reported missing from her home at approximately 9:00 PM. Sarah has blondish-brown hair. She was last seen wearing a Joliet District soccer t-shirt, blue jogging pants with red and white stripes, and blue tennis shoes with a white stripe.

She's the right age and has the right hair, so I wondered if it could be her. I know that Illinois is a long way from Tennessee, but she does look like the girl.

Oh, and Amy Fandel (vanished in 1978, Alaska, aged 8) also has the same looks. So does Holly Hughes (vanished from NY aged 7 in 1981).

coonhound
08-14-2014, 10:54 AM
Anubis mentioned this a while back (#34). Anyway, I just can't picture where this poor girl was found. The road is hard to find on online maps (i.e. it's visible on one "topo/terrain," "satellite image" or "map" view but not the other view of the same area). I know where Big Wheel Gap (the actual land formation) is and sometimes there is a road labelled there and sometimes not.

One of the possible reasons the maps are so erratic is that (from looking at the aerial photos) the entire area is spotted with strip mining. It could have literally changed the landscape and cut off the road. Or it could have made living up there unfeasible and the roads are no longer maintained.

In relation to this Doe, whether the place is still around as it was or not, the gap or any road through it would NEVER have been "easily accessible" to anyone that would qualify as a mere "passerby." A truck with 4WD could perhaps make it up there. Some places looked like you might need a smaller 4-Wheeler to pass.

Could she have been found by a mining speculator? Someone going to an old family cememtery?
Or could there be another "Wheel Gap" around Campbell county that it could be? I know there are variations of either "Stone Gap" or "Rock Gap" and other gaps that neighboring counties may have with the same name

She was found by a local looking for Poke Weed to make Poke Salet/Salad who initially found a skull- investigators subsequently found more bones in the vicinity. The area is very rugged and remote and investigators have said previously that they believe someone local or at least familiar with the area is connected to the case. The girl was discarded down a hillside into an abandoned strip mining area. They found less than 1/3 of her bones, which were likely washed away in the exposed terrain.

The investigators seem fairly confident that she was killed and left there in 1983 since the remains were buried under two years' worth of leaves and a 18-24 month old sapling was growing between a vertebrae. The teeth suggest she was probably 12-13 at the time of death and had some dental care.

My thoughts are that she was dumped by someone either local or had previously worked on those mining operations and had good familiarity with the area.

I don't see anything on Namus that is a good match using those parameters assuming automatic DNA exclusions.

bflocket
08-14-2014, 01:15 PM
She was found by a local looking for Poke Weed to make Poke Salet/Salad who initially found a skull- investigators subsequently found more bones in the vicinity. The area is very rugged and remote and investigators have said previously that they believe someone local or at least familiar with the area is connected to the case. The girl was discarded down a hillside into an abandoned strip mining area. They found less than 1/3 of her bones, which were likely washed away in the exposed terrain.

So the area was being strip mined back then? I could just tell that it had been at some point, but couldn't tell how recently based on the aerial photos.

And I didn't realize that anybody would be hunting for Poke in such an out-of-the-way place. It grows all over the place here (central KY, a little south of Louisville). I have some in my yard now. I collect it for the root, which is supposed to have medicinal properties. It's supposed to be poisonous too, but I ain't dead yet so I guess it can't be that poisonous.

coonhound
08-14-2014, 02:30 PM
So the area was being strip mined back then? I could just tell that it had been at some point, but couldn't tell how recently based on the aerial photos.

And I didn't realize that anybody would be hunting for Poke in such an out-of-the-way place. It grows all over the place here (central KY, a little south of Louisville). I have some in my yard now. I collect it for the root, which is supposed to have medicinal properties. It's supposed to be poisonous too, but I ain't dead yet so I guess it can't be that poisonous.

The original articles in 85 said it was an abandoned strip mine, so area she was dumped may not be the areas that are presently bare in the aerials. She was covered in leaves then, so likely in an area that has some tree coverage then and now. Regardless, though, this isn't likely a serial killer, but more likely a domestic situation. Not necessarily very local, but someone with knowledge of that area. Possibly unreported missing?

Poke grows well in unmaintained fields and other recently disturbed ground. So, it may have been a logical area to go looking for it.