Child Raped By As Many As 10 College Athletes, Police Say

[cathieq]

FRESNO, Calif. -- Police are investigating the rape of an 11-year-old girl that may have involved as many as 10 men in Fresno.



Police have arrested two men and identified eight others as persons of interest. They said most or all are football players at either Fresno City College or Reedley College...



http://www.click2houston.com/news/9490136/detail.html

The Fresno Bee
Information about the players
http://www.fresnobee.com/local/story/12431996p-13154287c.html

[Jeana (DP)]

I'm shocked beyond words.

[TisHerself]

:furious: I'm speachless.

[csds703]

"For the time they've been here, they haven't thrown any wild parties," she said. "They haven't been doing anything crazy. They stay in the apartment. … I feel bad for them. That's just their life thrown away for something that childish."

This idiot feels bad for them. Spare me. This wasn't childish this was criminal and that mob mentality that seems to be getting more common with sports teams and fraternities makes me sick.

[panthera]

Outrageous! What is with these college athletes anyway? The incident here in NC with Duke is bad enough (assuming a crime was committed) but an 11-year old girl? :furious:

[Jeana (DP)]

[QUOTE=panthera]Outrageous! What is with these college athletes anyway? The incident here in NC with Duke is bad enough, but an 11 year old girl? :furious


I think the only thing the Duke players are guilty of is drinking and having strippers over, NOT raping anyone. There's a HUGE gap between these two things.

[panthera]

[QUOTE=panthera]Outrageous! What is with these college athletes anyway? The incident here in NC with Duke is bad enough, but an 11 year old girl? :furious


I think the only thing the Duke players are guilty of is drinking and having strippers over, NOT raping anyone. There's a HUGE gap between these two things.I was just editing it when you quoted it...the edit does say assume a crime occurred. Sorry! :)

[Jeana (DP)]

I was just editing it when you quoted it...the edit does say assume a crime occurred. Sorry! :)


Didn't mean to jump on ya!!! LOL I just can't see comparing an 11-year old girl being gang raped to the Duke case. All is well. :blushing:

[Wudge]

Didn't mean to jump on ya!!! LOL I just can't see comparing an 11-year old girl being gang raped to the Duke case. All is well. :blushing:


The girl was eleven, so it is statutory rape, and these guys did not play for a Duke quality college. If the rape charge is true, the future storyline is more likely to be just a matter of how many guys (braindead morons) go to prison.

[Jeana (DP)]

The girl was eleven, so it is statutory rape, and these guys did not play for a Duke quality college. If the rape charge is true, the future storyline is more likely to be just a matter of how many guys (braindead morons) go to prison.

Thanks Wudge. I don't do criminal, but isn't this worse than statutory rape?

Mackey Davis, 20, and Eddie Scott, 19, were arrested on one count each of child molestation with a victim under 14 and oral copulation with a victim under 18. Both were being held Sunday at Fresno County Jail on $100,000 bail.

[oceanblueeyes]

The girl was eleven, so it is statutory rape, and these guys did not play for a Duke quality college. If the rape charge is true, the future storyline is more likely to be just a matter of how many guys (braindead morons) go to prison.

I thought any rape of a child younger than 12 years of age is considered Felony Rape or 1st Degree Assault? :waitasec:

IMO

Ocean

[Jeana (DP)]

I thought any rape of a child younger than 12 years of age is considered Felony Rape or 1st Degree Assault? :waitasec:

IMO

Ocean


Your head is where mine is!! LOL

[ccs]

I read about this on CNN and it just makes me sick to think that those thugs could actually hurt this young girls. It said that she had runaway from a group home, then for this to happen to that poor girl is just so sad. I hope that they throw the book at these guys. I guess for the life of me I can't understand why people do this.

[Wudge]

Thanks Wudge. I don't do criminal, but isn't this worse than statutory rape?

Mackey Davis, 20, and Eddie Scott, 19, were arrested on one count each of child molestation with a victim under 14 and oral copulation with a victim under 18. Both were being held Sunday at Fresno County Jail on $100,000 bail.


As you know, consent matters not in statutory rape. There are no facts yet, and I do not have recall of California's penal code for rape, but gang raping an eleven year old girl against her will would be considered as bad as it gets in the mind of most any Judge.

If it was forced gang rape, I would certainly favor life. And I would not differentiate from a girl of eleven versus a woman of any age. It is beyond incredible to me that there are so many rapes in our society.

[Jeana (DP)]

As you know, consent matters not in statutory rape. There are no facts yet, and I do not have recall of California's penal code for rape, but gang raping an eleven year old girl against her will would be considered as bad as it gets in the mind of most any Judge.

If it was forced gang rape, I would certainly favor life. And I would not differentiate from it a girl of eleven versus a woman of any age. It is beyond incredible to me that there are so many rapes in our society.


That's because there can be no consent in statutory rape. A child cannot give consent. Other than that, I think we're in agreement.

[panthera]

Didn't mean to jump on ya!!! LOL I just can't see comparing an 11-year old girl being gang raped to the Duke case. All is well. :blushing:No problem, and there isn't a comparison. I only mentioned Duke because it involves college athletes and it's in the same state I'm in! I feel so sorry for this poor innocent child, and can't understand what it is with these guys...so sickening. :(

[Wudge]

That's because there can be no consent in statutory rape. A child cannot give consent. Other than that, I think we're in agreement.

(salute)

It will be interesting to see what media play this story receives. At face value, this is far worse than the Duke case. However, in that case, the woman was black, and the guys were white, no idea what the race mixture is here.

[Jeana (DP)]

No problem, and there isn't a comparison. I only mentioned Duke because it involves college athletes and it's in the same state I'm in! I feel so sorry for this poor innocent child, and can't understand what it is with these guys...so sickening. :(


Agreed. College athletes and athletes in general do some crazy stuff and get away with way too much. If my child was receiving a Duke education and wasted his time with strippers and parties, I'd be pretty angry. Unfortunately, what came out of that night of partying is going to remain with them for life. They made some bad choices and there are consequences for them. Very sad really.

Anyway, about this little girl, I'd like to know more about why she was in a group home and why she ran away. My daughter is 11 and doesn't even walk to the next aisle in the grocery store without me, so its hard for me to picture this little girl being comfortable with running away.

[Jeana (DP)]

(salute)

It will be interesting to see what media play this story receives. At face value, this is far worse than the Duke case. However, in that case, the woman was black, and the guys were white, no idea what the race mixture is here.


And there was no rape. Don't forget about that. :rolleyes:

[panthera]

Agreed. College athletes and athletes in general do some crazy stuff and get away with way too much. If my child was receiving a Duke education and wasted his time with strippers and parties, I'd be pretty angry. Unfortunately, what came out of that night of partying is going to remain with them for life. They made some bad choices and there are consequences for them. Very sad really.

Anyway, about this little girl, I'd like to know more about why she was in a group home and why she ran away. My daughter is 11 and doesn't even walk to the next aisle in the grocery store without me, so its hard for me to picture this little girl being comfortable with running away.I don't know under what circumstances they place children in group homes in California; but maybe it's possible there is a lot of abuse at home, or mom's on drugs, in jail, or something along those lines?

[TisHerself]

Talk about mob mentality, out of these 10 criminal rapists morons not one of them could say "hey this is wrong".:furious:

[Jeana (DP)]

I don't know under what circumstances they place children in group homes in California; but maybe it's possible there is a lot of abuse at home, or mom's on drugs, in jail, or something along those lines?


My thinking as well. I can't imagine what a horrible life she's had and now this.

[panthera]

Talk about mob mentality, out of these 10 criminal rapists morons not one of them could say "hey this is wrong".:furious:Probably think they're "entitled" to have whoever they want. You're right: morons is an apt description. :mad:

[Wudge]

And there was no rape. Don't forget about that. :rolleyes:


I hope this case receives some of the play that the Duke case received (before our crimetainment media found out there was no case), because I really would like to hear what the storylines/facts are.

ETA: I sent the story to Drudge, and he just posted it on his website. That will help to highlight this case and give us a better chance to eventually hear what the facts are.

[Jeana (DP)]

I hope this case receives some of the play that the Duke case received (before our crimetainment media found out there was no case), because I really would like to hear what the storylines/facts are.

ETA: I sent the story to Drudge, and he just posted it on his website. That will help to highlight this case and give us a better chance to eventually hear what the facts are.


Absolutely!! Good idea.

[bakerprune64]

I don't know under what circumstances they place children in group homes in California; but maybe it's possible there is a lot of abuse at home, or mom's on drugs, in jail, or something along those lines?Children are placed in group homes for a number of reasons, primarily when the are taken from an abusive home, but sometimes orphaned children or delinquents are also placed in group settings.

[LovelyPigeon]

Not that it will matter in the felony charge, but I think this will be a case of oral sex, because the child had no physical injuries. I was glad to read that she at least wasn't physically harmed.

Tragically, it may turn out that the child was previously sexually molested (with the outcome being she was placed in a group home) and therefore had some knowledge regarding sexual acts. An absolutely horrible situation for this 11-yr-old little girl!

Some of the residents at the apartment complex have apparently stated that the child looked older than she was. It's no excuse, though, because even this 'explanation' by some suspects recognizes that the child was not a grown woman:

Fresno City College football coach Tony Caviglia arranged for seven players to consult Sunday with criminal defense attorney Michael Idiart.

Idiart said the men were worried when he met with them at a college conference room. They described the alleged victim as tall and mature looking although she seemed younger when she spoke.

Idiart said he explained to them that under California law sexual conduct with a person under 14 is felony child molestation.

"Basically, if you involved yourself in sexual activity with this person, you have a problem," he said he told the players.

He said they voluntarily went to the police station after he counseled them to fully cooperate. - http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=state&id=4353401

[TisHerself]

Not that it will matter in the felony charge, but I think this will be a case of oral sex, because the child had no physical injuries. I was glad to read that she at least wasn't physically harmed.

Tragically, it may turn out that the child was previously sexually molested (with the outcome being she was placed in a group home) and therefore had some knowledge regarding sexual acts. An absolutely horrible situation for this 11-yr-old little girl!

Some of the residents at the apartment complex have apparently stated that the child looked older than she was. It's no excuse, though, because even this 'explanation' by some suspects recognizes that the child was not a grown woman:

Fresno City College football coach Tony Caviglia arranged for seven players to consult Sunday with criminal defense attorney Michael Idiart.

Idiart said the men were worried when he met with them at a college conference room. They described the alleged victim as tall and mature looking although she seemed younger when she spoke.

Idiart said he explained to them that under California law sexual conduct with a person under 14 is felony child molestation.

"Basically, if you involved yourself in sexual activity with this person, you have a problem," he said he told the players.

He said they voluntarily went to the police station after he counseled them to fully cooperate. - http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=state&id=4353401

People are hysterical, what difference does it make what age she was, she was still raped and there were still 10 of them. She could have been 40 would have made no difference. The fact that she is only 11 makes it that much more tragic because she is only a little girl.

[Details]

That's because there can be no consent in statutory rape. A child cannot give consent. Other than that, I think we're in agreement.Consent matters a little, to me, and I think in law - there's a difference between molesting a compliant child, and forcibly molesting a protesting child. Neither crime is minor, but using force makes it even worse. The story makes it sound like she was not willing, so that is an additional charge, beyond statutory rape and child molestation.

[csds703]

Consent matters a little, to me, and I think in law - there's a difference between molesting a compliant child, and forcibly molesting a protesting child. Neither crime is minor, but using force makes it even worse. The story makes it sound like she was not willing, so that is an additional charge, beyond statutory rape and child molestation.
We are talking about an 11 yr old. No matter how mature she might have looked I am sure she didnt look old enough to consent to anything never mind a gang rape.

[BillyGoatGruff]

Thanks Wudge. I don't do criminal, but isn't this worse than statutory rape?

Mackey Davis, 20, and Eddie Scott, 19, were arrested on one count each of child molestation with a victim under 14 and oral copulation with a victim under 18. Both were being held Sunday at Fresno County Jail on $100,000 bail.
Depending on how the DA feels about th case he can charge aggravated child molestation, felony sexual assault of a minor (or whatever they call it in their state), aggravated rape, rape in the first degree, child molestation, or any combination therefore.

[Details]

We are talking about an 11 yr old. No matter how mature she might have looked I am sure she didnt look old enough to consent to anything never mind a gang rape.Yes, but wouldn't you want a steeper penalty for someone who forcibly, with violence rapes a 11 year old child, versus someone who does the same, but without force, without violence? Both crimes are high on the despicable scale, but still, doing it to an unwilling child is even worse than to one who has been persuaded, bribed or fooled into cooperating.

[mom3dd]

"quote" from http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/california/la-me-fresno11jul11,1,3380638.story?coll=la-headlines-pe-california Caviglia asked Michael Idiart, a criminal defense attorney whose son he had coached two years earlier, to advise the players as a group of their rights and the legal process, Idiart said.

Idiart, who provided the counsel for free, said he believed there were seven players — one more than police said were interviewed — present.

The men were nervous and wanted to know their rights.

"The ones voicing anything said they were innocent and wondered, 'Are we going to be crucified?' " Idiart said.

If they didn't do anything wrong — and hadn't touched the girl — they should provide statements to police, Idiart said he told them. If they had done "something to be concerned with, if they touched her, even if it was consensual, or if they had done something to abet or aid [the assault], they might want to exercise their 5th Amendment privilege" to avoid self-incrimination, he advised.

It's no defense to argue the victim appeared older if she's under 14, even in consensual contact, he told them.

The men said there wasn't a party Saturday night, but some were going back and forth between a few apartments, as usual.

One or two players said they might have seen the girl come out of the bedroom or bathroom at some point, Idiart said.

The victim appeared to be older than 11, the players told Idiart. "They said she was tall and had some development…. They all said she 'looked like she was 18 or 19 to me.' Whether that's true or not, I don't know. When I think of 11, I think of a girl jumping rope and playing jacks. But apparently she was more mature than that."

Chief Dyer declined to discuss the mental state of the victim beforehand or whether she may have consented initially to physical contact. "We know that 11-year-olds don't always make good decisions," Dyer said.
I CAN NOT BELIEVE THIS, IT IS BLAMING A CHILD FOR THE ACTIONS OF ADULTS. THE WORD CONSENSUAL MEANS MAKING AN INFORMED DECISION. IT MATTERS NOT ONE WHIT WHY THIS POOR CHILD WAS IN A GROUP HOME, IT MATTERS NOT ONE WHIT THAT SHE WAS TALL OR HAD SOME DEVELOPMENT. THIS IS WHY THERE ARE LAWS ON THE BOOKS THAT SEX WITHOUT MARRIAGE IS ILLEGAL. That there is such a thing as statutory rape. WILLIAM PENN SAID SOMETHING Right is right, even if everyone is against it, and wrong is wrong, even if everyone is for it.
I did mean to shout.
:eek:
I pray the LE followed regulations to the t. And that this case gets much more attention than Duke and UT.
All my opinion only.

[GlitchWizard]

People are hysterical, what difference does it make what age she was, she was still raped and there were still 10 of them. She could have been 40 would have made no difference. The fact that she is only 11 makes it that much more tragic because she is only a little girl.

There is a difference. The 40 year old might have thought it was a pretty good idea and then cried rape later when she sobered up and realized there were consequences to her consent.

The 11 year old might have been thinking she'd be "friends" with this group if she went along at first - who knows. I do know there is a HUGE GAPING difference in my mind between a kid who makes a stupid decision and one who wants nothing to do with it in the first place. 11 is kind of an on the line age for that wishy washy opinion of mine though - it would completely depend on the child. I do know there are some 11 year olds WAY more sexually aware and independant now than I was at 19 many moons ago.

[Jeana (DP)]

Consent matters a little, to me, and I think in law - there's a difference between molesting a compliant child, and forcibly molesting a protesting child. Neither crime is minor, but using force makes it even worse. The story makes it sound like she was not willing, so that is an additional charge, beyond statutory rape and child molestation.


I think under the age of 14 is where the cut off age is. This girl falls into that charge. (could be wrong, but that's what I had in mind).

[Jeana (DP)]

Yes, but wouldn't you want a steeper penalty for someone who forcibly, with violence rapes a 11 year old child, versus someone who does the same, but without force, without violence? Both crimes are high on the despicable scale, but still, doing it to an unwilling child is even worse than to one who has been persuaded, bribed or fooled into cooperating.


Its just additional charges as far as I'm concerned. Add battery to the rape charge and go for the DP.

[Jeana (DP)]

http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/07/11/girl.raped.ap/index.html


Arrests have been made:

FRESNO, California (AP) -- More arrests are likely in a rape case involving an 11-year-old girl who may have been attacked by as many as 10 men, according to police.

Two arrests have been made in the Saturday attack, and officials said they have identified eight others as persons of interest. Most or all are students at either Fresno City College or Reedley College, police said.

[GlitchWizard]

I have more forgiveness in my heart than anyone else in the world, for most things. But NOT when it involves kids.

[csds703]

Yes, but wouldn't you want a steeper penalty for someone who forcibly, with violence rapes a 11 year old child, versus someone who does the same, but without force, without violence? Both crimes are high on the despicable scale, but still, doing it to an unwilling child is even worse than to one who has been persuaded, bribed or fooled into cooperating.
Ten men against one child is forcible in my opinion. Even if the force was with manipulation rather than violence. The end result was a child was raped. I think this really makes me angry because there seems to be more crimes committed by young men who seem to have this mob mentality. Gang rapes, hazing incidents, with the most demented and humiliating acts. Who thinks this stuff up.

[GlitchWizard]

Who thinks this stuff up.
You're implying thought was involved.

[Paladin]

College athletes and athletes in general.
No! You're generalizing an entire group of people! Atheletes are not predisposed to causing trouble or doing "crazy stuff."

Idiots cause trouble and do "crazy stuff". They just happen to be atheletes in this case.

[Jeana (DP)]

No! You're generalizing an entire group of people! Atheletes are not predisposed to causing trouble or doing "crazy stuff."

Idiots cause trouble and do "crazy stuff". They just happen to be atheletes in this case.


I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is that beginning in jr. high school, SOME coaches let them get away with just about anything. Most of the bullying we hear about in jr. high involves athletes. When they get on to high school, it continues, and by the time they in college they think they're God. I'm not saying all of them are. My son is an athlete. But if kids can get away with something they know it and they'll take it as far as they can.

[Paladin]

Two arrests have been made in the Saturday attack
Does CNN know something we don't? They are categorizing this as an attack without providing any information as to why this may be so.

[txsvicki]

Yes, but wouldn't you want a steeper penalty for someone who forcibly, with violence rapes a 11 year old child, versus someone who does the same, but without force, without violence? Both crimes are high on the despicable scale, but still, doing it to an unwilling child is even worse than to one who has been persuaded, bribed or fooled into cooperating.


Heck no, I wouldn't want any steeper or lower penalties for any child molester. Isn't this what people are now trying to fight? Getting a child to keep quiet about the rape and abuse is how many pedophiles and child molesters operate without getting caught. People molest kids, they should rot in prison not get a slap on the wrist. I don't think any 11 year old looks older than age 18. That's a favorite age for child molesters. Those guys deserve what they get.

[Paladin]

I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is that beginning in jr. high school, SOME coaches let them get away with just about anything. Most of the bullying we hear about in jr. high involves athletes. When they get on to high school, it continues, and by the time they in college they think they're God. I'm not saying all of them are. My son is an athlete. But if kids can get away with something they know it and they'll take it as far as they can.
Sorry I went off...I think when I read "in general" I blew a gasket. Sports is a big part of highschools, but the behavior associated with them has more to do with the chuckleheads coaching them than the actual act of playing sports. Sure, maybe atheletes have a bit more confidence than others, which can lead to arrogance.

When I was in high school I got jumped by 2 football players (I was a band geek), and their coach, who was also a teacher, saw this, and just walked back into his classroom instead of intervening. I'll never forget that.

[Jeana (DP)]

Does CNN know something we don't? They are categorizing this as an attack without providing any information as to why this may be so.

I'm not sure what you mean. The girl said she was attacked, led them to the apartment where it occurred and possibly did some sort of line up. You know the drill. She's 11. If there was ANY contact whatsoever, its rape. She cannot consent. Even if she could consent, I seriously doubt that she's consent to 10 at one time. She obviously was very upset when she ran out of there.

[Jeana (DP)]

Sorry I went off...I think when I read "in general" I blew a gasket. Sports is a big part of highschools, but the behavior associated with them has more to do with the chuckleheads coaching them than the actual act of playing sports. Sure, maybe atheletes have a bit more confidence than others, which can lead to arrogance.

When I was in high school I got jumped by 2 football players (I was a band geek), and their coach, who was also a teacher, saw this, and just walked back into his classroom instead of intervening. I'll never forget that.


That sucks and that's exactly what I mean. The coaches want to win. Here in Texas, football is not just a sport. This is hardcore football country. My son, luckily is on the football team and in the band. So, I doubt he'll ever get jumped on, but as a parent whose at just about every extra-cirricular activity at two schools, its pretty easy to see that the athletes are the ones who get physical off the field. You hardly ever see the band treating one another roughly as the athletes do. I asked my son once about slamming into another player at full speed and how could he do it. He just smiled and said it was "awesome." LOL I guess us girls will never understand.

[Wudge]

That sucks and that's exactly what I mean. The coaches want to win. Here in Texas, football is not just a sport. This is hardcore football country. My son, luckily is on the football team and in the band. So, I doubt he'll ever get jumped on, but as a parent whose at just about every extra-cirricular activity at two schools, its pretty easy to see that the athletes are the ones who get physical off the field. You hardly ever see the band treating one another roughly as the athletes do. I asked my son once about slamming into another player at full speed and how could he do it. He just smiled and said it was "awesome." LOL I guess us girls will never understand.


Notice that the crimetainment denizens did not pick up this story, which almost assuredly means the eleven year old girl was not black and the players white. I researched Fresno's team; it would seem to have a good number of black players, but no reporter has yet written about race (as they did in the Duke case).

[William N]

The details so far are scarce, but some of the suspects are alleged to have told their lawyer something like, "She looked tall and developed for 11 years old." Still, for this case to go anywhere, there will have to be DNA or forensic evidence of some kind.

[Pepper]

My region of California sure seems to get national headlines these days.

First let me say that this is terrible, and I in no way support the perps, but what has come out locally is that this 11 yr. old girl and a 15 yr. old companion ran away from a group home shortly before this incident. It also appears that the 11 yr. old looked to be much older, and gave her age as 17 to one or more of the young men. Police are still looking for the 15 yr. old, who was apparently not molested, but could provide information in the case.

Two men (age 19 and 20) have been arrested in the case, and police are questioning several more juveniles. They are awaiting DNA tests before charging anyone else.

[William N]

Something I forgot to mention in my above post. The eleven year old girl is white and the football players are black.

[Jeana (DP)]

Notice that the crimetainment denizens did not pick up this story, which almost assuredly means the eleven year old girl was not black and the players white. I researched Fresno's team; it would seem to have a good number of black players, but no reporter has yet written about race (as they did in the Duke case).


The two arrested so far are black, so my assumption is that she is as well. Could be wrong, but I'll wait and see.

[Jeana (DP)]

Something I forgot to mention in my above post. The eleven year old girl is white and the football players are black.


Really? Where did you hear this? That shot my theory out of the water.

[Pepper]

Notice that the crimetainment denizens did not pick up this story, which almost assuredly means the eleven year old girl was not black and the players white. I researched Fresno's team; it would seem to have a good number of black players, but no reporter has yet written about race (as they did in the Duke case).

Pictures of the 2 arrested are in today's paper. They are both black. The 15 yr. old girl runaway with the 11 yr. old victim is also pictured and named. The 15 yr. old girl appears to be Hispanic. No information on the race of the 11 yr. old victim.

As a point of clarification, these alleged football players are from Reedly College and Fresno City College, NOT Fresno State.

[William N]

I stand corrected. Someone had seen a picture of the AV from the neck down and said she looked white. This means that we aren't certain, except that she isn't black.

[Wudge]

Pictures of the 2 arrested are in today's paper. They are both black. The 15 yr. old girl runaway with the 11 yr. old victim is also pictured and named. The 15 yr. old girl appears to be Hispanic. No information on the race of the 11 yr. old victim.

As a point of clarification, these alleged football players are from Reedly College and Fresno City College, NOT Fresno State.

Thanks, I missed seeing their pictures. I wonder how many of the other seven or eight guys are black, and now I am really wondering what race the eleven year old girl is.

[GlitchWizard]

I think whatever the race of the victim, she's going to be afraid of men of ALL races after this. :-(

[Paladin]

I'm not sure what you mean. The girl said she was attacked, led them to the apartment where it occurred and possibly did some sort of line up. You know the drill. She's 11. If there was ANY contact whatsoever, its rape. She cannot consent. Even if she could consent, I seriously doubt that she's consent to 10 at one time. She obviously was very upset when she ran out of there.
I think I confused myself. I was referring to the guy advising the players that even if she gave consent she is 11 so it is not consent. That crossed some wires in my mind and led me to believe that maybe she did give consent of some sort and that the players didn't literally attack her.

I had a Mt. Dew today and the sugar + caffeine is facilitating me skipping words and setences of pertinent information. ;)

[Jeana (DP)]

I think I confused myself. I was referring to the guy advising the players that even if she gave consent she is 11 so it is not consent. That crossed some wires in my mind and led me to believe that maybe she did give consent of some sort and that the players didn't literally attack her.

I had a Mt. Dew today and the sugar + caffeine is facilitating me skipping words and setences of pertinent information. ;)


Makes sense, especially when you consider that we've heard that she may have actually told them she was older (16 maybe??). I can't though, bring myself to the place where any of them would think that she wanted to have any "sexual contact" with 10 OF THEM though and if she wasn't willing, I would think it would have been pretty apparant to them in a short amount of time. One day I hope we hear how she came to be in the group home and why she ran away from there. I just think as a society, we need to take better care of our kids - all of the kids. I see nothing in this little girl's future that is sunshine and roses. How will she possibly overcome all she's gone through in 11 short years?? :(

[Paladin]

This really does remind me of a concern of mine. Young girls these days really do look ALOT older than they really are. Really, with some of the provacative clothing and makeup that parents let thier daughters wear, it's really no surprise to me that this 11 year old looked 16+. I'm not saying that makes things alright, but it definitely makes things more difficult in determining if someone is of legal age or not.

Then again, all those guys had to do was ask her how old she was. Even then, she could have lied, and it would have made no difference as they would have gotten in trouble anyway.

I somehow suspect she gave consent to maybe one or two guys to fool around and she got scared when it got out of hand and that's when she ran outside.

[Pepper]

Makes sense, especially when you consider that we've heard that she may have actually told them she was older (16 maybe??). I can't though, bring myself to the place where any of them would think that she wanted to have any "sexual contact" with 10 OF THEM though and if she wasn't willing, I would think it would have been pretty apparant to them in a short amount of time. One day I hope we hear how she came to be in the group home and why she ran away from there. I just think as a society, we need to take better care of our kids - all of the kids. I see nothing in this little girl's future that is sunshine and roses. How will she possibly overcome all she's gone through in 11 short years?? :(

Who knows what kind of life this child had. Obviously there was some trouble in her background or she wouldn't have been in a group home. She told one or more of the suspects that "she was turning 18 soon" - that in today's paper. I agree that she wasn't consenting to group sex with 10 or so, but I suspect she wasn't plucked off her porch while playing with her Barbies either. This poor child needs lots of help, or she will end up in serious trouble.

[Jeana (DP)]

This really does remind me of a concern of mine. Young girls these days really do look ALOT older than they really are. Really, with some of the provacative clothing and makeup that parents let thier daughters wear, it's really no surprise to me that this 11 year old looked 16+. I'm not saying that makes things alright, but it definitely makes things more difficult in determining if someone is of legal age or not.

Then again, all those guys had to do was ask her how old she was. Even then, she could have lied, and it would have made no difference as they would have gotten in trouble anyway.

I somehow suspect she gave consent to maybe one or two guys to fool around and she got scared when it got out of hand and that's when she ran outside.

You're so right about that. I've got an 11-year old daughter and its a constant struggle to make sure that her clothing and accessories don't make her look too much older than she really is. The little girl in this case was a victim waiting to happen from the sounds of it so far.

[Jeana (DP)]

Who knows what kind of life this child had. Obviously there was some trouble in her background or she wouldn't have been in a group home. She told one or more of the suspects that "she was turning 18 soon" - that in today's paper. I agree that she wasn't consenting to group sex with 10 or so, but I suspect she wasn't plucked off her porch while playing with her Barbie's either. This poor child needs lots of help, or she will end up in serious trouble.

You're sure right about that.

[mindi77]

I have an 11 year old daughter and she looks 11 if not younger. So I can't see it with her, but I have seen some girls that look older then 11 but they still look young. I can see a girl saying maybe she was 12 or 13 and maybe 14 but to say 16 or more seems like they would have known that was really far fetched. i am curious to hear all they say. She is so young and this is horrible to have happened to her.

[BillyGoatGruff]

No! You're generalizing an entire group of people! Atheletes are not predisposed to causing trouble or doing "crazy stuff."

Idiots cause trouble and do "crazy stuff". They just happen to be atheletes in this case.
Its been my experience that athletes in our society have been given "rides" on their bad behaviour, starting as early as junior high and continuing throughout their playing careers. Especially football players. At the best they're allowed to attend schools on scholarships without truly educating themselves, at worst they engage in rape and murder. Drunk driving, doing hard drugs and beating their wives falls somewhere in the middle. This has been going on for several generations, effectively breeding a culture of entitlement.

[Pepper]

Its been my experience that athletes in our society have been given "rides" on their bad behaviour, starting as early as junior high and continuing throughout their playing careers. Especially football players. At the best they're allowed to attend schools on scholarships without truly educating themselves, at worst they engage in rape and murder. Drunk driving, doing hard drugs and beating their wives falls somewhere in the middle. This has been going on for several generations, effectively breeding a culture of entitlement.
I agree with you, only I would say "especially basketball players." Awhile back someone did a study on crime and athletics, and it was found that basketball was by far the most prone to crime and bad behavior.

[mom3dd]

does that mean that an 18 yr old young woman can have consensual sex with 10 men? BS:behindbar

[Jeana (DP)]

does that mean that an 18 yr old young woman can have consensual sex with 10 men? BS:behindbar


Sure she can. I'm not sure why she'd want to, but she can.

[Dr. Doogie]

does that mean that an 18 yr old young woman can have consensual sex with 10 men? BS:behindbar
Only in porn videos... :blushing:

[Wudge]

Sure she can. I'm not sure why she'd want to, but she can.


Yet again, nothing about this case on the crimetainment airways today. I guess black guys allegedly raping someone of any race or age is not worth anything to them.

ETA: And she certainly appears to be white to me.

http://www.knx1070.com/pages/55387.php

[csds703]

Yet again, nothing about this case on the crimetainment airways today. I guess black guys allegedly raping someone of any race or age is not worth anything to them.

ETA: And she certainly appears to be white to me.

http://www.knx1070.com/pages/55387.php
If that picture is supposed to be her then she didn't look older than 11 to me.

[Wudge]

If that picture is supposed to be her then she didn't look older than 11 to me.


I just find it to be incredibly hypocritical (and a sad sociological note, because young black men, who represent 2.5% of our population, roughly commit half of all violent crimes) that three white athletes from Duke allegedly raping a 24 year old black stripper becomes a high-profile case. Yet, black football players allegedly raping an eleven year old girl (who definitely is not black) gets no coverage whatsoever.

[KJERVIS]

I can tell you this, I suppose I could believe with a stretch of the imagination that an 11 yr old could appear to be older. One thing I dont buy is the minute that little girl opened her mouth to speak it would be a dead give away as to her age. Yes she could be a bright girl and worldy due to her experiences but she would still be little girl in both thought and speech. I find it very hard to believe that these men did not realise they were talking to a little girl. I think its interesting that the very first thing a molester/rapist says after being caught is "she didnt look 15" or whatever the age is. Please its just one more excuse not to take responsibility for your actions.

[Dr. Doogie]

I find it sad that everything nowadays is filtered through this lens of race. By playing up the race aspect of the Duke case, the media is begging to be called hypocritical by not giving this case equal treatment.

In the not-so-distant past, newspapers would report that someone who was arrested was of a particular race when it was irrelevant to the story. In a case of classic over-compensation, they no longer will even report the race of someone who is still at-large (when the race of the suspect is relevant).

In the Duke case and the one in Fresno, the race of the accused and of the alledged victim is only relevant from the standpoint of how each case has been treated differently in the media.

[Wudge]

I find it sad that everything nowadays is filtered through this lens of race. By playing up the race aspect of the Duke case, the media is begging to be called hypocritical by not giving this case equal treatment.

In the not-so-distant past, newspapers would report that someone who was arrested was of a particular race when it was irrelevant to the story. In a case of classic over-compensation, they no longer will even report the race of someone who is still at-large (when the race of the suspect is relevant).

In the Duke case and the one in Fresno, the race of the accused and of the alledged victim is only relevant from the standpoint of how each case has been treated differently in the media.


The media is largely liberal. Hence, white athletes raping a black stripper is news, but black athletes allegedly raping an eleven year old white girl is not their cup of newsworthy tea; i.e.; politcally speaking, and the main news prisms are politics and race.

[txsvicki]

There is no way that an 11 year old little girl could look like a grown woman or even be mistaken for one. I didn't even have to see it, but if the pic is of this child, then she is obviously not developing at all and still has plenty of baby fat. The dress even looks like a little pinafore. Those men molested the girl. I am really shocked that some posters on this forum even think that the child could be mistaken for a consenting adult, be consenting at all, or even wanted this sexual contact with even one of the men.

[SewingDeb]

If that picture is supposed to be her then she didn't look older than 11 to me.

I agree. She's not particularly developed.

[Details]

Its just additional charges as far as I'm concerned. Add battery to the rape charge and go for the DP.Yes, exactly - additional charges. It's not a mitigating circumstance to have 'consent', but it is an additional charge to use force or violence.

[William N]

I watched as many of the "crimetainment" shows as I could Tuesday night. There was nothing about this case.

[Jeana (DP)]

I watched as many of the "crimetainment" shows as I could Tuesday night. There was nothing about this case.


It really is outrageous that the media is ignoring this story.

[TisHerself]

Does anyone know if that is a picture of the girl or if that is just a picture of "someone"?
If that is a picture of the girl that is certainly not who they are describing. That is the picture of a normal underdeveloped 11 yr old and anyone who saw her would know she was only about 11.
I would also like to know why this is not bigger news, most probably because she does not come from a prominent nieghborhood. She was in a group home, and a run away. So who really cares?. Pretty darn Pathetic.:furious:

[Jeana (DP)]

Does anyone know if that is a picture of the girl or if that is just a picture of "someone"?
If that is a picture of the girl that is certainly not who they are describing. That is the picture of a normal underdeveloped 11 yr old and anyone who saw her would know she was only about 11.
I would also like to know why this is not bigger news, most probably because she does not come from a prominent nieghborhood. She was in a group home, and a run away. So who really cares?. Pretty darn Pathetic.:furious:


I agree, but do you really think that men capable of raping an 11-year old wouuld necessarily tell the truth to police?
They're not going to come right out and say yeah, we knew and we did it anyway because she wanted us to. They're child raping scum. I wouldn't put anything past them.

[TisHerself]

No I know they would not tell the truth, but the way the media was describing her was, Tall, developed, looking 18. That picture if that is her is not anything like that, that's what I am saying.

Ok maybe I am confused here, Has anyone other than the perps seen her? Are they the only ones giving a description of her? I thought others had seen her and had given that description of her as looking older.:waitasec:

[Jeana (DP)]

No I know they would not tell the truth, but the way the media was describing her was, Tall, developed, looking 18. That picture if that is her is not anything like that, that's what I am saying.


That picture didn't look like an 11-year old to me. I may be looking at the wrong one. Upper arms seemed rather large and rippled to belong to a child. :waitasec:

[TisHerself]

LMAO I am way confused now

[Jeana (DP)]

LMAO I am way confused now


Me too!!!! HELP!!!!!

[TisHerself]

No your right there is something wierd about those arms, although she has no chest, that is what is throwing me.

[BillyGoatGruff]

I find it sad that everything nowadays is filtered through this lens of race. By playing up the race aspect of the Duke case, the media is begging to be called hypocritical by not giving this case equal treatment.

In the not-so-distant past, newspapers would report that someone who was arrested was of a particular race when it was irrelevant to the story. In a case of classic over-compensation, they no longer will even report the race of someone who is still at-large (when the race of the suspect is relevant).

In the Duke case and the one in Fresno, the race of the accused and of the alledged victim is only relevant from the standpoint of how each case has been treated differently in the media.
Yeah, I've noticed their bizarre unwillingness to identify the race of a criminal on the loose. Personally, I'd like some help narrowing it down.

[Floh]

Yeah, I've noticed their bizarre unwillingness to identify the race of a criminal on the loose. Personally, I'd like some help narrowing it down.

I don't believe it bizarre at all. there is a clear attempt not to whip up racial tension with media reporting. in this case, i believe the media are being facile.

[BillyGoatGruff]

I don't believe it bizarre at all. there is a clear attempt not to whip up racial tension with media reporting. in this case, i believe the media are being facile.
The upshot of this rather strange form of PC reporting is if they *don't* mention the perp's race, viewers then assume he must be black.

[Mabel]

I agree. She's not particularly developed.

I don't believe the picture is her. It's just a picture that the site used for effect, IMO.

[SewingDeb]

I don't believe the picture is her. It's just a picture that the site used for effect, IMO.

You're probably right Mabel.

It really doesn't matter how developed she was. She was only 11 and those guys are in big trouble.

I heard they found the other runaway. The 15 year old who may be a witness to the attack.

The two who have been charged so far plead not guilty in court.

[Old Broad]

When I was a kid I looked older than I was, tall and I developed early. I started getting attention from older guys before I understood what it could mean. When I was 13 I could pass for 16 but there is a big difference still and you are a KID. Luckily I did not accept the rides etc that were offered to me. If someone thought she was older, it still does not take away the fact that it's wrong what she's saying was done! Even if she looked 17 which I seriously doubt any 11 year old could really pass as, that does not mean it's ok for up to 10 college age men to gang bang her.

OB

[TisHerself]

When I was a kid I looked older than I was, tall and I developed early. I started getting attention from older guys before I understood what it could mean. When I was 13 I could pass for 16 but there is a big difference still and you are a KID. Luckily I did not accept the rides etc that were offered to me. If someone thought she was older, it still does not take away the fact that it's wrong what she's saying was done! Even if she looked 17 which I seriously doubt any 11 year old could really pass as, that does not mean it's ok for up to 10 college age men to gang bang her.

OBI agree that's what I was saying before doesn't matter what age she was, rape is rape, and gang rape is gang rape.

[Jeana (DP)]

You're probably right Mabel.

It really doesn't matter how developed she was. She was only 11 and those guys are in big trouble.

I heard they found the other runaway. The 15 year old who may be a witness to the attack.

The two who have been charged so far plead not guilty in court.


You're right about that. The "I didn't know" excuse doesn't work.

[William N]

Still nothing on this case on last night's "crimetainment" shows. Nancy Grace spent most of her show on Michael Jackson. There is an article at today's fresnobee.com. The suspects were arraigned yesterday for "lewd acts." The preliminary hearing is scheduled for July 24.

[SewingDeb]

Thanks for the update William. I think it is starting to sink in with these guys how much trouble they are really in. If the 15 year old actually witnessed this, that will be all she wrote.

[Jeana (DP)]

Thanks for the update William. I think it is starting to sink in with these guys how much trouble they are really in. If the 15 year old actually witnessed this, that will be all she wrote.


Have they found her yet?

[William N]

The 15 year old witness was found on Tuesday. This is from yesterday's SF Chronicle.

[Jeana (DP)]

The 15 year old witness was found on Tuesday. This is from yesterday's SF Chronicle.

Thank you very much for the info William. I'm glad and hope that she'll be able to help the investigation.

[hoping4truth]

The headline alone sickened me.
How can this happen! :(

[GlitchWizard]

The headline alone sickened me.
How can this happen! :(
In an alcoholic stupor, it seemed like a good idea at the time?

[Wudge]

I don't believe it bizarre at all. there is a clear attempt not to whip up racial tension with media reporting. in this case, i believe the media are being facile.


It only is allowable if the alleged rapists are white.

http://www.news4jax.com/news/9502979/detail.html

[LovelyPigeon]

Possible witness found in rape case
Authorities locate SLO girl, 15, who may have witnessed an assault on 11-year-old in Fresno
Wire and staff report

Authorities located a 15-year-old girl in Atascadero on Tuesday who may have witnessed the widely publicized sex assault on an 11-year-old girl in Fresno over the weekend.

Jamie Gonzales, who is from San Luis Obispo, ran away from a Fresno group home Friday with the younger girl. Gonzales was found safe in Atascadero, according to Fresno police. --->>

The 15-year-old is one of three teens Fresno police wanted to speak with about the assault, which may have involved up to 10 men. The other two juveniles are teenage boys who may have been with the victim when she visited an acquaintance at a Fresno apartment complex, police said. --->>

Two men, Mackey Lee Davis IV, 20, and Eddie Scott, 19, have been arrested in the case. Six others — all of whom were planning to play for Fresno City College this fall — were interviewed Sunday night and allowed to leave but could face charges if evidence, including DNA samples, links them to the incident. Davis and Scott, both former Reedley College football players from Florida, were formally charged Tuesday with one count each of a lewd act on a child. If found guilty, they could serve as many as eight years in prison. --->>

http://www.sanluisobispo.com/mld/sanluisobispo/news/local/15027862.htm

[LovelyPigeon]

Fresno Football Players Plead Not Guilty To Rape
2 Fresno Junior College Football Players Pleaded Not Guilty To The Rape Of An 11-year-old Girl.
(CBS 13) Two junior college football players plead not guilty today in court to charges that they sexually abused an 11-year-old runaway girl in Fresno.

Police believe 20-year-old Mackey Davis and 19-year-old Eddie Scott were two of ten men who allegedly raped the young girl Saturday night.

Davis's attorney says his client is waiting for DNA test results.

“Mr. Davis eagerly awaits DNA tests which will clear him of any allegation he raped or had sexual intercourse with this runaway girl.” --->> http://cbs13.com/topstories/local_story_193233330.html

[Opie]

Does anyone else think the defense attorney's remark about "this runaway girl" seem to somehow demean/blame the victim? Or am I just reading too much into it?

[Details]

I think the defense attorney is, no doubt, working already to undermine her credibilty and value as a human being. Which is why I despise most defense attorneys.

[opme]

I doubt that would be his perspective if it were his child who was the victim. I couldn't ever be a defense attorney.. I would be likely to cause more damage to their case by calling them what they are... lowlife scum and pedophiles. I ticks me off that the vitim is somehow always the one who is really having to defend themselves in order for the criminal to be convicted especially when the victim is a child!

[Wudge]

Fresno Football Players Plead Not Guilty To Rape
2 Fresno Junior College Football Players Pleaded Not Guilty To The Rape Of An 11-year-old Girl.
(CBS 13) Two junior college football players plead not guilty today in court to charges that they sexually abused an 11-year-old runaway girl in Fresno.

Police believe 20-year-old Mackey Davis and 19-year-old Eddie Scott were two of ten men who allegedly raped the young girl Saturday night.

Davis's attorney says his client is waiting for DNA test results.

“Mr. Davis eagerly awaits DNA tests which will clear him of any allegation he raped or had sexual intercourse with this runaway girl.” --->> http://cbs13.com/topstories/local_story_193233330.html

Liscia Garcia, a former girlfriend of Mackey Davis says: "He's not harmful, he's not disrespectful, he's really nice ... he never asked for anything, never made contact, touched, nothing."

http://abclocal.go.com/kfsn/story?section=local&id=4359669

So far, nobody did anything.

[cathieq]

http://abclocal.go.com/kfsn/story?section=local&id=4362812
Fresno's police chief is not calling the incident a gang rape, but he does say about ten men did have sexual intercourse with the 11-year old.

Meaning 1 of 3 things (IMO): 10 is not a gang OR each one went into the room one at a time...OR ...what?

[mom3dd]

:banghead: What the f**k is wrong with this world an 11 year old is a child.

Definition of a gang.

An identifiable group of people (highly organized or loosely structured) who form an alliance for a common purpose which identifies with or claims territory in the community. Members engage either individually or collectively in antisocial or unlawful activity/activities and frequently create an atmosphere of fear and intimidation. [5] Gang-Identifying Terms. Clothing, accessories, make-up, markings, or other items/material that identifies a student as a member of a gang.
If people don't know that having sex with anyone under the age of 18 is illegal then maybe we need to teach basic law in elementary school up.

[Wudge]

http://abclocal.go.com/kfsn/story?section=local&id=4362812
Fresno's police chief is not calling the incident a gang rape, but he does say about ten men did have sexual intercourse with the 11-year old.

Meaning 1 of 3 things (IMO): 10 is not a gang OR each one went into the room one at a time...OR ...what?


Because the DNA results are not back yet, it is hard to believe that the Mayor said ten guys had sex with her.

[Bobbisangel]

The girl was eleven, so it is statutory rape, and these guys did not play for a Duke quality college. If the rape charge is true, the future storyline is more likely to be just a matter of how many guys (braindead morons) go to prison.



The quality of the college really isn't going to mean that the guys who attend are going to be any better then kids from any other college. You have to take it person by person not by what the quality of a college is.

[Bobbisangel]

And there was no rape. Don't forget about that. :rolleyes:


Wudge, you don't know that for a fact :rolleyes:

[Bobbisangel]

Who knows what kind of life this child had. Obviously there was some trouble in her background or she wouldn't have been in a group home. She told one or more of the suspects that "she was turning 18 soon" - that in today's paper. I agree that she wasn't consenting to group sex with 10 or so, but I suspect she wasn't plucked off her porch while playing with her Barbies either. This poor child needs lots of help, or she will end up in serious trouble.



It is hard to tell what kind of a background this little girl came from. She is pretty young to have gotten into so much trouble with LE that her parents, through the courts, would have had her placed into a group home. At one time I worked in a Residental Center for troubled teens which is pretty much the same as a group home. Every child that came through there came from VERY dysfunctional homes with the exception of one family. When we got that child the family was pretty much together but the parents had both been active alcoholics and had since gotten into AA and into recovery. But before they straightened their lives up some really awful things had happened in their home between the youngest boy..the one we had...and an older son.
Most of the kids I worked with had been sexually abused and they were pretty wild kids. We took them from 12-17 yrs. We only had one 12 yr old when I worked there though. My guess would be that this girl was taken away from her family and some pretty ugly things had probably happened to her.

I wonder how this little girl along with the other girl happened to end up at this apartment? I believe that some of the guys said that she looked older but after talking to her they could tell that she was young. An 11 yr old would have a hard time acting 16-18 yrs. Maybe the 10 or so that raped her didn't take the time to have a conversation with her.

I can't even imagine 10 or so guys taking a little girl like this into a bedroom or where ever it was and lining up to have sex with her. That says something about the mentality of these guys. They treated her like a whore. They deserve whatever sentence they end up with. If one of those guys was my son I would be so disgusted and sick over him doing something like that. I think I would beat the chit out of him myself.

[William N]

There was an AP story on this case that went out over the country on July 14. However, the TV "crimetainment" shows are still ignoring it.

[LovelyPigeon]

County girl, 11, subject of Fresno sex assault probe
By SUKHJIT PUREWAL
Herald Staff Writer
Officials confirmed Friday that the 11-year-old girl who allegedly was sexually assaulted by at least two junior college football players in Fresno last weekend is from Monterey County. --->>

Elliott Robinson, Monterey County director of social and employment services, said during a press conference Friday that the girl was moved from Monterey County to a group home he described as an "intensive residential treatment facility" in Fresno County about a month before the July 8 incident.--->>

The girl is fine physically, he said, but has been deeply traumatized. She is receiving counseling.

"We are working tirelessly to find the best therapeutic options for her and to foster stability in her life so she doesn't continue down the path of running into danger," Robinson said. --->>

Sometime on July 8, the 11-year-old went to the Villa Hermosa apartments in a run-down section of Fresno, Cardinale said.

Fresno police aren't saying whether the 15-year-old accompanied the younger girl to the apartment. In an effort to track the older girl down for an interview, police released her identity to the media. But now, Cardinale said, officials aren't identifying her by name.

While at the apartments, the 11-year-old allegedly was assaulted, with acts including intercourse and oral copulation, Cardinale said. --->> http://www.montereyherald.com/mld/montereyherald/news/local/15045920.htm

[LovelyPigeon]

Football Players Deny Sexual Assault Charges
Jul 16, 2006, 09:00

FRESNO - Two football players from the Central Valley deny allegations that they sexually assaulted an 11-year old girl. They pleaded not guilty last Wednesday.

The girl, who ran away from a group home, said that Eddie James Scott, 19, and Mackey Lee Davis IV, 20, assaulted her in an apartment in Fresno, California. Eight other men may also have been involved in the crime.

Jack Rivvell, Davis’s attorney, in a statement near the Fresno courtroom stated that his client did not have sexual intercourse with or rape the 11-year-old girl. Bail is set for each at $55,000.

Among others, Davis and Scott face a lewd-act charge. This charge states that the men tried to arouse themselves or the girl. Sexual intercourse is not necessary for this charge to apply.

The Fresno court will hold a hearing on July 24 to decide if there is sufficient evidence for a criminal trial. - http://www.canyon-news.com/artman/publish/article_4615.php

[LovelyPigeon]

Girl pointed out man in assault
Alleged victim told of lewd act, arrest report says
By Tim Eberly / The Fresno Bee
(Updated Monday, July 17, 2006, 1:34 PM)
The 11-year-old runaway at the center of a sex assault investigation pointed out at least one of the suspects to police the night of the alleged incident, according to an arrest report.

The report, filed in Fresno County Superior Court, also states the girl told police that 19-year-old Eddie James Scott "committed a lewd act with her and she participated in oral copulation with him."

No such report was filed for the other suspect, 20-year-old Mackey Lee Davis IV, and Fresno police spokesman Jeff Cardinale said he did not know whether Davis, too, was pointed out by the victim.

The report on Scott states he was cooperative with police officers. It also says that it wasn't known whether he had been drinking alcohol that evening. --->>

http://www.fresnobee.com/local/story/12450124p-13170624c.html

[cathieq]

A very informative article but I would classify it as a pro-player article. Again, it seems we're back to the "she looked older" argument and the "I didn't have sex with that woman" defense.
http://tinyurl.com/r5lvy

snip

...The gated confines of the Villa Hermosa apartment complex feature well-manicured lawns, blooming bougainvillea and giggling children at play.
But there's an ugly side here as well.

From the stairs leading up to Apartment No. 246, you can see the spot in the bushes where, two years ago, police found the bullet-riddled body of a young father of three. It was the 40th homicide that year in this city of about 500,000.

On July 8, a frantic 911 call brought police to Villa Hermosa again.

A young female voice made an alarming accusation. She had watched as about 10 college football players surrounded an 11-year-old girl and forced her to perform oral sex on at least two of them....

[William N]

The Preliminary Hearing on this case was supposed to start yesterday. Does anyone have any news? Incidentally, the "crimetainment" shows still ignore this case.

[LovelyPigeon]

I haven't been able to Google up anything about the preliminary hearing originally scheduled for yesterday.

[LovelyPigeon]

Hearing Delayed in Girl Sexual Assault Case
July 25, 2006 FRESNO, Calif. - A preliminary hearing was postponed for two former community college football players accused of sexually assaulting an 11-year-old girl.

Jack Revvill, a lawyer for Mackey Davis, 20, told a Fresno Superior Court judge Monday he was waiting for information from the prosecution, including an interview with the alleged victim. --->>

The preliminary hearing was rescheduled for Aug. 24. - http://abclocal.go.com/kfsn/story?section=local&id=4399028

[LovelyPigeon]

Never touched girl, suspect tells Fresno station
By Carlos Frias
Palm Beach Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, July 25, 2006
Eddie Scott says he never laid a hand on the 11-year-old girl he is accused of having sexual contact with, but saw the men who did, he told a Fresno television station Sunday night.

Scott, who has been out on bond since July 17, told KMPH Fox 26 that he saw at least two acquaintances having sexual contact with the girl July 8 in the apartment where he was staying, but he did not know her age.

Scott, 19, of West Palm Beach, and Mackey Lee Davis, 20, of Port St. Lucie, former area high school football players playing junior college ball in the Fresno area, were arrested that night after the girl told police that she had oral sex with them. Video showed the two being handcuffed under flashing blue lights, sitting on the curb and waiting to be hauled off to jail.

"While we were sitting out there, on that grass, the guys that did something were on their cellphones, looking at us, laughing," Scott told the television station.

"The guys that did it, they know they did it.... How could you pin something like this on two good people who have something going for themselves? You got to step up and be a man," he said. "I stepped up and was a man. Everything the police asked me, I did." --->>
The 11-year-old alleged victim will testify at the August hearing. That testimony will be used in court if the case continues to trial, Revvill said.

The girl picked Davis and Scott out of a lineup, according to an arrest report. --->>
On the night of the incident, Scott said, he was playing a hand-held video game when the girl entered and met several of his acquaintances. He said he never had met the girl before, never even shook her hand, but later saw several men having sexual contact with her, he told the television station.

When he learned the girl's age, "I cried right there in front of the investigators, jaw dropped. I was so shocked," he said. "I got a sister this same age that I love with all my heart. I changed her diapers. Why would I go and touch someone like that?"

Scott told the TV station that he never heard the girl ask for help.

"She isn't innocent. She is not innocent," he said. --->>

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/highschools/content/local_news/epaper/2006/07/25/s3b_fresnoplayers_0725.html

[William N]

Thanks for the information. Mr. Scott should be informed that an 11-year old girl is considered "innocent" when sexually assaulted.

[LovelyPigeon]

Certainly she is innocent in a legal sense as a victim of sexual assault, but I don't think that's what Mr Scott is referring to.

[cathieq]

Well, if Scott has a sister that age then he should have been able to figure out the victim's approximate age. Besides, I haven't heard anything about him trying to stop it...He saw who did it - that's just as bad in my book since he didn't stop it. What ya wanna bet he watched the whole thing? I mean, come on, he saw two who did..he must have stood there awhile.

He can cry all he wants - no sympathy from me. His morals are totally screwed!

[LovelyPigeon]

I think Scott is protesting that he didn't realize the age of this 11-year-old, and stating that if he'd known he'd have intervened. Whether that's true or not, I don't know.

I think it's very possible, as I first posted, that this girl was victim to sexual abuse well before this incidence, whether from her peers or someone older than her, and therefore (sadly) had some experience with oral sex. She's still going to be a victim by law, no matter what transpired, but she may not have been 'innocent' in the sense of having been forced or induced to perfrom sex acts.

Legally it won't matter much if at all. Morally, it may matter.

[SewingDeb]

Thanks for the information. Mr. Scott should be informed that an 11-year old girl is considered "innocent" when sexually assaulted.

Yes, and the sooner the better.

[SewingDeb]

I think Scott is protesting that he didn't realize the age of this 11-year-old, and stating that if he'd known he'd have intervened. Whether that's true or not, I don't know.

I think it's very possible, as I first posted, that this girl was victim to sexual abuse well before this incidence, whether from her peers or someone older than her, and therefore (sadly) had some experience with oral sex. She's still going to be a victim by law, no matter what transpired, but she may not have been 'innocent' in the sense of having been forced or induced to perfrom sex acts.

Legally it won't matter much if at all. Morally, it may matter.

LovelyPigeon, why would it matter morally? Are you saying if she has been sexually molested before it would not be morally wrong for these guys to use her in a sexual way? Because she may not have been a virgin?

Just trying to understand.

[concernedperson]

I have read but I cannot post objectively. Someone, somewhere has got to see that this child was abused.It is an obvious to me. Please protect children when you can.

[Jeana (DP)]

She's too young to give consent, so even if she was willing, which I doubt, its still against the law. Guys cannot just "assume" a girl is of age.

[LovelyPigeon]

Legally, she's too young to give consent, even if she passed her self off as someone older, sexually experienced, and willing. I think that's a good law. Morally, she's too young to consent, too, at least by my moral code. But I think there's more involved here than just an innocent inexperienced 11-year-old girl preyed upon by young men with rape on their minds.

I think she may have willingly entered the situation at the apartments, and been propelled by previous sexual abuse experiences she's suffered from her peers, adults, or both. I guess that is why she was in the group home situation, ordered by the court to be under state care and supervision. It's horrible that at such a young age she's already experienced so much debauchery.

I think this is a case of totally inappropriate and illegal oral sex, but I don't think it's morally a case of rape. I don't think the young men realized the age of the girl, and I think she may have purposely misled them, prostituting herself.

I have faith, though, that the court will reach a fair and judicial decision about what should happen to all those involved.

[SewingDeb]

Legally, she's too young to give consent, even if she passed her self off as someone older, sexually experienced, and willing. I think that's a good law.

I think she may have willingly entered the situation at the apartments, and been propelled by previous sexual abuse experiences she's suffered from her peers, adults, or both. I guess that is why she was in the group home situation, ordered by the court to be under state care and supervision. It's horrible that at such a young age she's already experienced so much debaucery.

I think this is a case of totally inappropriate and illegal oral sex, but I don't think it's morally a case of rape. I don't think the young men realized the age of the girl, and I think she may have purposely misled them, prostituting herself.

I have faith, though, that the court will reach a fair and judicial decision about what should happen to all those involved.

Thank you for your explanantion, LovelyPigeon. Since she cannot legally consent, the law is very clear on this.

[LovelyPigeon]

I think this may have been a case of "survival sex" on the part of the girl. It waits to be seen the circumstances the males were engaged in.

The study, titled "The Commercial Sexual Exploitation of Children in the U.S., Canada and Mexico," identified 17 groups of children in the United States at substantial risk for sexual exploitation.

Estes, a professor of social work at the University of Pennsylvania, said most of these children are runaways and homeless kids who trade "survival sex" for food, shelter and clothing on the streets of U.S. cities. - http://www.cnn.com/2001/LAW/09/10/child.exploitation/index.html

[SewingDeb]

I think this may have been a case of "survival sex" on the part of the girl. It waits to be seen the circumstances the males were engaged in.

The study, titled "The Commercial Sexual Exploitation of Children in the U.S., Canada and Mexico," identified 17 groups of children in the United States at substantial risk for sexual exploitation.

Estes, a professor of social work at the University of Pennsylvania, said most of these children are runaways and homeless kids who trade "survival sex" for food, shelter and clothing on the streets of U.S. cities. - http://www.cnn.com/2001/LAW/09/10/child.exploitation/index.html

Very possible since she had run away.

[LovelyPigeon]

Both suspects are now out on bail. No one else has been charged.

Suspect in Girl's Sexual Assault Out on Bail

July 26, 2006 - A valley junior college football player who's accused of sexually assaulting an 11-year-old girl is out of jail. According to court documents, Mackey Davis posted $55,000 bail Wednesday morning.

Davis and Eddie Scott are both charged with committing a lewd act on an 11-year-old girl at a central Fresno apartment complex. Scott is already out on bail, and both men will be back in court next month. -
http://abclocal.go.com/kfsn/story?section=local&id=4402622

[Marstan]

This thread has really been hard to read! Just the name of the thread should alarm everyone about this horrible situation.

Did I misread that the police received a 911 call from a young female who said about ten men were attacking this girl or did I misread that? I will have to go back and look because if that is the case, there is another witness to this crime.

I cannot stomach anyone saying anything about a 10 or 11 year old being able to give consent. Even as young as the two boys were that were arrested, they are considered adults and should know. I don't think they cared - it was a gang (as in a bunch of people together not necessarily a gang) mentality - and they did not care. Regardless of whether they were drinking on drugs or whatever, they had no right and should be brought up on the appropriate charges. Sexual molestation is NOT the appropriate charge. There should be kidnapping (she was not able to leave), assault and battery, rape of a child under 13 YOA and the molestation charge as well. There should also be a conspiracy charge brought against all of the boys/men as they conspired to do this act together and someone was injured and a crime was committed. Regardless of how old they "thought" she was - this just means they would have done it to a 15-18 year old as well, would that make that gang rape okay?

I am sorry for being so snippy. This just gets my goat but good.:doh:

I found the article, here it is:

A very informative article but I would classify it as a pro-player article. Again, it seems we're back to the "she looked older" argument and the "I didn't have sex with that woman" defense.
http://tinyurl.com/r5lvy

snip

...The gated confines of the Villa Hermosa apartment complex feature well-manicured lawns, blooming bougainvillea and giggling children at play.
But there's an ugly side here as well.

From the stairs leading up to Apartment No. 246, you can see the spot in the bushes where, two years ago, police found the bullet-riddled body of a young father of three. It was the 40th homicide that year in this city of about 500,000.

On July 8, a frantic 911 call brought police to Villa Hermosa again.

A young female voice made an alarming accusation. She had watched as about 10 college football players surrounded an 11-year-old girl and forced her to perform oral sex on at least two of them....
This is sick!!!

[Wudge]

This thread has really been hard to read! Just the name of the thread should alarm everyone about this horrible situation.

Did I misread that the police received a 911 call from a young female who said about ten men were attacking this girl or did I misread that? I will have to go back and look because if that is the case, there is another witness to this crime.

I cannot stomach anyone saying anything about a 10 or 11 year old being able to give consent. Even as young as the two boys were that were arrested, they are considered adults and should know. I don't think they cared - it was a gang (as in a bunch of people together not necessarily a gang) mentality - and they did not care. Regardless of whether they were drinking on drugs or whatever, they had no right and should be brought up on the appropriate charges. Sexual molestation is NOT the appropriate charge. There should be kidnapping (she was not able to leave), assault and battery, rape of a child under 13 YOA and the molestation charge as well. There should also be a conspiracy charge brought against all of the boys/men as they conspired to do this act together and someone was injured and a crime was committed. Regardless of how old they "thought" she was - this just means they would have done it to a 15-18 year old as well, would that make that gang rape okay?

I am sorry for being so snippy. This just gets my goat but good.:doh:

I found the article, here it is:

A very informative article but I would classify it as a pro-player article. Again, it seems we're back to the "she looked older" argument and the "I didn't have sex with that woman" defense.
http://tinyurl.com/r5lvy

snip

...The gated confines of the Villa Hermosa apartment complex feature well-manicured lawns, blooming bougainvillea and giggling children at play.
But there's an ugly side here as well.

From the stairs leading up to Apartment No. 246, you can see the spot in the bushes where, two years ago, police found the bullet-riddled body of a young father of three. It was the 40th homicide that year in this city of about 500,000.

On July 8, a frantic 911 call brought police to Villa Hermosa again.

A young female voice made an alarming accusation. She had watched as about 10 college football players surrounded an 11-year-old girl and forced her to perform oral sex on at least two of them....
This is sick!!!







Thanks for posting this article. It did not come up on my search.

I have been waiting to hear more about this case (DNA results, etc.). Compared to the Duke rape case, this case should have stickiness and coverage too.

[cathieq]

Eddie Scott's myspace
http://tinyurl.com/eeumd


Mackey Davis
http://tinyurl.com/ndvk2

These have probably already been posted. If so, I apologize.
There will be a hearing on Aug. 24 to determine if there is enough evidence to proceed with the case.

[bykerladi]

I think this is a case of totally inappropriate and illegal oral sex, but I don't think it's morally a case of rape.

How can this not "morally" be a case of rape? Even if she claimed to consent, and even if she pretended to be older, these men should've known better. At 11 years old, its unlikely she looked THAT old. At the most, lets say 18, just for arguments sake. At that young, these men should be ashamed of themselves. AND they should've verified her age - if there's any doubt as to age, they should check. These men make me SICK and I can't believe that someone could possible make an excuse for them like that.

[LovelyPigeon]

At the most, lets say 18, just for arguments sake. At that young, these men should be ashamed of themselves. AND they should've verified her age - if there's any doubt as to age, they should check. These men make me SICK and I can't believe that someone could possible make an excuse for them like that.

Ok, at your suggestion let's say she said she was 18, and looked it. The two young men are 19 and 20. That wouldn't be a "at that young", as you put it, age discrepancy.

People having casual sex don't always demand a driver's license to verify the other person's age. Doesn't make it right, just pointing out the obvious.

Should be ashamed of themselves doesn't mean they planned or carried out rape. I think it's very possible all of those involved engaged in oral sex willingly, even though it turned out to be in illegal circumstance. I'm not excusing anyone but I am trying to understand exactly what happened, why, and what should be the best outcome, moral and judicial. If what I suspect is true, I think it's judicial to consider that they did not purposely or knowingly engage in lewd behavior with a child.

These young men broke the law, if the young girl's story is true (the part about 10 men doesn't seem to have panned out as true), whether they realized it at the time or not. I tend to believe this is a case where they did not realize the person who presented herself to them as a young woman of age was actually a minor child.