Call out to Jim "TCG"

[dasgal]

Ok, I just read a few posts and am willing to take the time to talk to you about what I conceive to be your many misconseptions.
Let's start with Darin.
You go first.

[Jimthecarpetguy]

Ok, I just read a few posts and am willing to take the time to talk to you about what I conceive to be your many misconseptions.
Let's start with Darin.
You go first.
Wow! are you calling me out?

[Jimthecarpetguy]

Ok, I just read a few posts and am willing to take the time to talk to you about what I conceive to be your many misconseptions.
Let's start with Darin.
You go first.
Why did it take so long to drive her home?You're next..

[dasgal]

Cool. I like this. Nice and civil.
It took him just over an hour. He drove from I-30 and Dalrock to 75. This involved a trip down 635 which is no picnic any time of day. I figure the time to do the job at 1 hour, if he was driving fast. I make this route alot during client meetings and that's what it runs for me in real time driving.
But sitting home making popcorn, it might have seemed much longer. Especially when your husband who is dogging you just hired your almost look-alike younger sister, called you fat all the time, and took what might have seemed too long to drive home.

[Jimthecarpetguy]

Was this the first time it took over an hour or in your own opinion could you have made the drive in less time by taking a different route?Did it always take this long to drive from the routier house to dani's.How overdue was Darin?Were there any call records to show concern over his delay?If I am even a little behind schedule I have atleast 5 missed calls from the psycho BFH wondering where I am.If Darin was late what do the phone records have to say?

[dasgal]

No, this was a pretty average 45min-1 hour drive. I think Darlie said something in a statement that it was an hour an 19 minutes. That might not be right, but I remember the minutes part. I thought it was pretty weird not to round off. She was going for the high end being the drama queen and
all. Darin didn't comment, except to say that the drive was normal, which I think it was.

[dasgal]

Sorry, passed over a certain part.

As far as the cell calls, yes, Darlie made a few. Two. She was wanting to know where he was. Darin states this, the phone records confirm, but Darlie denies.

[Jeana (DP)]

Anyone that's ever been on 635 knows that if there's any traffic at all, you can add an additional 15-30 minutes to your drive. That highway sucks.

[dasgal]

Which again, does nothing for Darlie's emotional state. Her husband has called her fat and ugly, and here he is taking eons to drive her pretty, skinny, look alike sister home......

[Jeana (DP)]

Which again, does nothing for Darlie's emotional state. Her husband has called her fat and ugly, and here is is taking eons to drive her pretty, skinny, look alike sister home......


Exactly.

[Jimthecarpetguy]

Continuing with Darin,Was he wearing his glasses and pants when he first came down to the commotion?Did he go back up to get one or the other?How did he do all of these things and still show up on the front lawn when LE got there.

[dasgal]

Only MO, but I think he was pretty freaked out when this all went down. I think he may have even forgotten what he was wearing. Boxers or jeans. Hell, I would. You have to remember what he walked into. Trust me, I am no friend of Darin. If he is brave enough, he will tell you himself.

On to the next part. You wanna see Darin be part of it, it's coming up.

[Jeana (DP)]

Continuing with Darin,Was he wearing his glasses and pants when he first came down to the commotion?Did he go back up to get one or the other?How did he do all of these things and still show up on the front lawn when LE got there.


OHHHHHH He's good Das!!!!!

[Jimthecarpetguy]

Only MO, but I think he was pretty freaked out when this all went down. I think he may have even forgotten what he was wearing. Boxers or jeans. Hell, I would. You have to remember what he walked into. Trust me, I am no friend of Darin. If he is brave enough, he will tell you himself.

On to the next part. You wanna see Darin be part of it, it's coming up.

Waiting patiently,Please tell.And remember YOU called me out.LOL

[dasgal]

What are you waiting for? This isn't the "super secret" crap that supporters tell you about. These are thing accesable to YOU.

[Jimthecarpetguy]

What are you waiting for? This isn't the "super secret" crap that supporters tell you about. These are thing accesable to YOU.
Remember that Darlie is only convicted for the murder of ONE of the boys.The prosecutors got the DP based on the age of the child.If that conviction was overturned she walks and double jeopardy would apply.If Darin did the deed on the younger child and Darlie did the other kid the DP does not come into play.We"ve got to kill them both she says and then cover up begins...I am still convinced she killed atleast one of those kids but if Darin did the little one Darlie is innocent of the charges against her.lLke it or not.

[Goody]

What are you waiting for? This isn't the "super secret" crap that supporters tell you about. These are thing accesable to YOU.
Where? I have never seen any documents that quote Darlie as saying Darin was late getting back or that it took him an hour and 19 minunutes. I always thought there was more to be had and would love a lead.

[Goody]

Remember that Darlie is only convicted for the murder of ONE of the boys.The prosecutors got the DP based on the age of the child.If that conviction was overturned she walks and double jeopardy would apply.If Darin did the deed on the younger child and Darlie did the other kid the DP does not come into play.We"ve got to kill them both she says and then cover up begins...I am still convinced she killed atleast one of those kids but if Darin did the little one Darlie is innocent of the charges against her.lLke it or not.
I have always had that feeling, too, Jim. That the crime she is convicted of might not be the one she is techinically guilty of. However, if she delivered any blows at all to Damon, whether they were the ones that killed him or not, she could still be convicted of murder, so she would almost have to NOT have touched him at all and I don't think that fits the evidence.

[beesy]

Remember that Darlie is only convicted for the murder of ONE of the boys.The prosecutors got the DP based on the age of the child.If that conviction was overturned she walks and double jeopardy would apply.If Darin did the deed on the younger child and Darlie did the other kid the DP does not come into play.We"ve got to kill them both she says and then cover up begins...I am still convinced she killed atleast one of those kids but if Darin did the little one Darlie is innocent of the charges against her.lLke it or not. The DA held back a charge. This was done in case Darlie had been found not guilty, they could have arrested her right there on the spot for Devon's murder. They chose Damon first because they could go DP with him, as you said. Wouldn't that have been a good plan for LA to do when trying OJ? So even if her conviction is completely overturned, they'll just arrest her for Devon's murder. I think there's a good possibility that Darin stabbed Damon the final fatal blow, but the poor thing probably would have bled out anyway. I think Darlie stabbed Devon and Damon until she thought they were dead. She's still to blame, even if Darin delivered the final blow. There is no evidence pointing to Darin, so he didn't HAVE to do any of it. He didn't have anything to cover up until he made the choice for Darlie over his boys.

[beesy]

Jim I think everybody is flirting with you. We don't get many menfolk in these 'ere parts. http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/11/11_14_16.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZS)

[Jimthecarpetguy]

Jim I think everybody is flirting with you. We don't get many menfolk in these 'ere parts. http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/11/11_14_16.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZS)
heh heh ..Yeah,It's a target rich environment but I only have eyes for you Beesy.HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

[beesy]

Continuing with Darin,Was he wearing his glasses and pants when he first came down to the commotion?Did he go back up to get one or the other?How did he do all of these things and still show up on the front lawn when LE got there. Based on my need for glasses, I think he had them on when he first went down, but possibly not his jeans. I think it's in one of her statements that they met in the front entry and then he turned off to the Roman Room and she to the kitchen for the phone. No need to count that time because she had not called 911 yet. Or sometimes she had.. hee The first PO didn't get there until about 3.35 into the 911 call, that's plenty of time. From what I remember he says he ran back up to get his jeans because he knew the cops would be coming and/or he was going to get Karen for help and/or was checking on Drake. I think it was Babs Davis who said she timed the sock dump run to about 30 seconds. If that is the reason Darin was in the front yard when Walling approached(returning from the alley), then he made it to the yard, but not into the house.

[Jimthecarpetguy]

Based on my need for glasses, I think he had them on when he first went down, but possibly not his jeans. I think it's in one of her statements that they met in the front entry and then he turned off to the Roman Room and she to the kitchen for the phone. No need to count that time because she had not called 911 yet. Or sometimes she had.. hee The first PO didn't get there until about 3.35 into the 911 call, that's plenty of time. From what I remember he says he ran back up to get his jeans because he knew the cops would be coming and/or he was going to get Karen for hel. and/or was checking on Drake. I think it was Babs Davis who said she timed the sock dump run to about 30 seconds. If that is the reason Darin was in the front yard when Walling approached(returning from the alley), then he made it to the yard, but not into the house.
\ did he appear out or breath to LE after such an excursion?

[leann coburn]

Okay, as I said in another thread, there are ways that the living child could have been saved, at least for some period of time. Maybe forever. If these parents were so ignorant as to not know the methods of lifesaving, then I find that hard to believe. At least we know that Darin tried mouth-to-mouth with the result being that the air just came out back through his chest. What should he have done then? He should have wrapped the boy's chest tightly with Saran Wrap. And we know Darlie was convenient to it in the kitchen. This would have made it possible for him to have breathed. For deep stab wounds, the largest kotex pads in the house (and most mothers have them after they have given birth and things change) should have been applied to the wounds and if possible taped with duct tape. Lifesaving 101. I am not medically trained. I am an ex-mortician.

Haven't you all heard that if a person cannot breathe due to a crushed trachea or other blockage, that you should insert a straw or an empty pen casing into a small x-shaped cut in the windpipe? It may be gross, but any thinking parent would do this.

So they were in shock? Then the natural adrenaline should have kicked in. I know because my husband and I ran into a drunk driver (3X the limit) when he crossed in front of us a few years ago. I didn't panic. I sprang into action and told everyone to shut up. I cut the airbags off of his face with a knife handed to me. I felt for a pulse. It was very rapid, indicating shock like a scared rabbit's pulse. I knew then that there was nothing I could do. So I took his left hand (which took a lot of digging since he was not wearing his seatbelt) and I prayed the Lord's Prayer for him. Knowing that his hearing was going to be the last thing to go (the mind saves itself as long as possible), I told him that "we were going to get him home and that he was going to be alright". I already knew, of course, that he WAS going home. Just not to his earthly home. I don't know if he thought I was an angel or his daughter or his wife. He was only 43. But I felt his hand when it finally let go and I knew it was over. He was dead on the scene. The point is that it doesn't ever help to panic and that we don't have to. Actually, when placed in these circumstances, most people react rationally, and this has been proven by research.

So if I found my child still laboring to breathe, I would know what to try. It's what the military does to this day. And they save many lives on the battlefield because of it.

What were Darlie and Darin thinking as he watched the air come back out with blood and as she stood there just worried about herself?

I also have to add that in my experience in embalming dead bodies, a wet towel would only cause blood to ooze out quicker than usual. Were they really that dumb or are most of us just geniuses? I know I'm not a genius. No Jimmy Neutron here. Just practical experience. I think they never wanted either of the children to make it after the attack had been committed. Because they could have talked. And that just couldn't be.

"We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl year after year". (dibs to Pink Floyd. Syd Barrett died last weekend after fighting a long battle with mental disease brought on by heavy drug use.) I think this quote applies perfectly to the Routiers. Give some people a good life and they'll do everything that they can to mess it up.

JMO

[Goody]

..... I think they never wanted either of the children to make it after the attack had been committed. Because they could have talked. And that just couldn't be.

"We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl year after year". (dibs to Pink Floyd. Syd Barrett died last weekend after fighting a long battle with mental disease brought on by heavy drug use.) I think this quote applies perfectly to the Routiers. Give some people a good life and they'll do everything that they can to mess it up.

JMO
Can't agree with you more, leann. Glad you used the plural sense above, too, I don't see how one can me guilty and the other innocent, esp when you really look at their actions and reactions that night.

[beesy]

\ did he appear out or breath to LE after such an excursion? Yes, I think he did to Walling. But that doesn't help or hurt the sock dump theory. He was giving "CPR" to Devon and running up and down the stairs and freaked out so he was probably already short of breath.

[beesy]

Okay, as I said in another thread, there are ways that the living child could have been saved, at least for some period of time. Maybe forever. If these parents were so ignorant as to not know the methods of lifesaving, then I find that hard to believe. At least we know that Darin tried mouth-to-mouth with the result being that the air just came out back through his chest. What should he have done then? He should have wrapped the boy's chest tightly with Saran Wrap. And we know Darlie was convenient to it in the kitchen. This would have made it possible for him to have breathed. For deep stab wounds, the largest kotex pads in the house (and most mothers have them after they have given birth and things change) should have been applied to the wounds and if possible taped with duct tape. Lifesaving 101. I am not medically trained. I am an ex-mortician.

Haven't you all heard that if a person cannot breathe due to a crushed trachea or other blockage, that you should insert a straw or an empty pen casing into a small x-shaped cut in the windpipe? It may be gross, but any thinking parent would do this.

So they were in shock? Then the natural adrenaline should have kicked in. I know because my husband and I ran into a drunk driver (3X the limit) when he crossed in front of us a few years ago. I didn't panic. I sprang into action and told everyone to shut up. I cut the airbags off of his face with a knife handed to me. I felt for a pulse. It was very rapid, indicating shock like a scared rabbit's pulse. I knew then that there was nothing I could do. So I took his left hand (which took a lot of digging since he was not wearing his seatbelt) and I prayed the Lord's Prayer for him. Knowing that his hearing was going to be the last thing to go (the mind saves itself as long as possible), I told him that "we were going to get him home and that he was going to be alright". I already knew, of course, that he WAS going home. Just not to his earthly home. I don't know if he thought I was an angel or his daughter or his wife. He was only 43. But I felt his hand when it finally let go and I knew it was over. He was dead on the scene. The point is that it doesn't ever help to panic and that we don't have to. Actually, when placed in these circumstances, most people react rationally, and this has been proven by research.

So if I found my child still laboring to breathe, I would know what to try. It's what the military does to this day. And they save many lives on the battlefield because of it.

What were Darlie and Darin thinking as he watched the air come back out with blood and as she stood there just worried about herself?

I also have to add that in my experience in embalming dead bodies, a wet towel would only cause blood to ooze out quicker than usual. Were they really that dumb or are most of us just geniuses? I know I'm not a genius. No Jimmy Neutron here. Just practical experience. I think they never wanted either of the children to make it after the attack had been committed. Because they could have talked. And that just couldn't be.

"We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl year after year". (dibs to Pink Floyd. Syd Barrett died last weekend after fighting a long battle with mental disease brought on by heavy drug use.) I think this quote applies perfectly to the Routiers. Give some people a good life and they'll do everything that they can to mess it up.

JMO http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/23/23_28_100.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZS) some great points

[cami]

I have always had that feeling, too, Jim. That the crime she is convicted of might not be the one she is techinically guilty of. However, if she delivered any blows at all to Damon, whether they were the ones that killed him or not, she could still be convicted of murder, so she would almost have to NOT have touched him at all and I don't think that fits the evidence.

If she didnt' stab Damon, how did she get his blood on the back of her night shirt..cast-off?

[Jimthecarpetguy]

If she didnt' stab Damon, how did she get his blood on the back of her night shirt..cast-off?
when she was on Darins back trying to get him to stop???I think there was actually some testimony that said the same thing.The cast off blood was some pretty incriminating evidence and if I remember correctly the speculation was that it could have only got there if she was the perp or was right on his back during the sltabbing.

[justice2]

when she was on Darins back trying to get him to stop???I think there was actually some testimony that said the same thing.The cast off blood was some pretty incriminating evidence and if I remember correctly the speculation was that it could have only got there if she was the perp or was right on his back during the sltabbing.Jim I've looked at that too, Darlie jumping on Darin's back. And for the longest time I thought that is where she got the bruises (that showed up after the hospital stay) on her arms. The bruises inside the elbow bend would have been where she hit his arms/shoulder (don't know how to explain that). It would have been a sharp corner to wrap your arms around. The bruises are the darkest where if you bent your arms and held them up to protect yourself from someone, no one would touch that part. But they appear to be the darkest on her there, at the elbow bends. But I also don't have MTJD so probably not the best pictures to look at. But they do look like they were all made at one time to me.

But you know too. I would think her boobs would have to be just as bruised as her arms and maybe even her torso and legs too. Isn't she quite a bit smaller than Darin.

If you remember or come across where this was in testimony again, I'd like to know. Thanks

[Goody]

If she didnt' stab Damon, how did she get his blood on the back of her night shirt..cast-off?
That is why I said theory doesn't fit with the evidence, at least not all of it.

[Goody]

when she was on Darins back trying to get him to stop???I think there was actually some testimony that said the same thing.The cast off blood was some pretty incriminating evidence and if I remember correctly the speculation was that it could have only got there if she was the perp or was right on his back during the sltabbing.
The only theory that was proven court showing exactly how the blood could have gotten on her shirt had her wielding the knife over her shoulder as she stabbed the kids. So we know that is a very plausible explanation. All other theories are just empty claims with nothing factual to support them. In order for the theories to hold water, they have to deal with the size and shape of the droplets, where they landed, and from which direction (those little telltale tails). I suspect if Darlie had been on Darin's back while he was doing the stabbing, those blood droplets on her shirt would not have landed where they did at the very least.

[Goody]

Jim I've looked at that too, Darlie jumping on Darin's back. And for the longest time I thought that is where she got the bruises (that showed up after the hospital stay) on her arms. The bruises inside the elbow bend would have been where she hit his arms/shoulder (don't know how to explain that). It would have been a sharp corner to wrap your arms around. The bruises are the darkest where if you bent your arms and held them up to protect yourself from someone, no one would touch that part. But they appear to be the darkest on her there, at the elbow bends. But I also don't have MTJD so probably not the best pictures to look at. But they do look like they were all made at one time to me.

But you know too. I would think her boobs would have to be just as bruised as her arms and maybe even her torso and legs too. Isn't she quite a bit smaller than Darin.

If you remember or come across where this was in testimony again, I'd like to know. Thanks
There was no testimony at all that I am aware of that implicated Darin at all. I am as sure as I can be that there was none placing her on his back as he did the stabbing. Darin did offer that Darlie held Devon's chest wounds closed while he blew air into his lungs orally and that is how the droplets came to be on her shirt, but Darlie herself did not testify to that. Nor did her defense attys latch onto that. Probably too easy to disprove.

[mollymalone]

The bruises in the arms could have been self inflicted any number of ways, but did anyone think that when Darin came down and found the children as they were, that he grabbed Darlie very hard there and shook her and asked her WTF she'd done? He also could have hit her arms away from him if she was trying to put her arms around him.

Darlie goes out of her way to repeatedly tell Darin on the 911 tape that somebody else did it, as if she's answering questions he's asking.

[CW]

From my understanding when Darlie was taken to the hospital there was no signs of bruising. I believe if Darin would of grabbed her they would of seen at least red marks.

[Kitty5001]

With the bruising and the timeline just thought I would throw a little curveball into this:
I fell down the stairs like a dummy (they were wood stairs) on thursday 8-3 in the AM and landed on my knees at the bottom of the landing breaking my fall with the door closed in front of me- wow it hurt- it was slightly red (not too bad or noticeable) knowing this case and the question of the bruising not being there in the hospital but after in the police station, I watched the knee closely to see how long it would take for the bruise to appear- I awoke this morning 8-7 AM with the bruise on my knee for the first day- so it took 4 days to develop the bruising. Interesting experiment- how long was she in the hospital for before the police station bruising photos??

[cami]

With the bruising and the timeline just thought I would throw a little curveball into this:
I fell down the stairs like a dummy (they were wood stairs) on thursday 8-3 in the AM and landed on my knees at the bottom of the landing breaking my fall with the door closed in front of me- wow it hurt- it was slightly red (not too bad or noticeable) knowing this case and the question of the bruising not being there in the hospital but after in the police station, I watched the knee closely to see how long it would take for the bruise to appear- I awoke this morning 8-7 AM with the bruise on my knee for the first day- so it took 4 days to develop the bruising. Interesting experiment- how long was she in the hospital for before the police station bruising photos??

She was in from June 6 to June 8...the photos were taken June 10. I did a bruise experiment last year too with this in mind. I stubbed my toe hard..by that night it was red and a tiny bit blue, by the evening of the following day my foot from toes to ankle and over the instep was bruised blue so it took about 30 hours for me...I guess it depends on the person.

[Becba]

One thing I have found with bruising is when you hit something with your hand it can bust the blood vessels. Like if you have ever hit a soccer ball and it breaks the blood vessels around where the hand meets the wrist. You have bone and lots of blood vessels there without much fat tissue for padding.

If Darlie stabbed the children she likely did the same thing, broke some blood vessels in that area. Blood will seep into the soft tissues and gravity will pull it down. If she lay in the hospital with her forearms elevated she would get blood pooling in the fatty tissue of the arm, enhanced also by gravity due to the forearms raised. Like wise some of the bruising was under her arms between the elbow and arm pits. Her elbows would have little padding and they would have made hard contact with a childs raised knees. Just resting her arms on the hospital bed railings would have increased the blood flow to under her arms where it would pool.
I think this would explain why the bruising showed up so severley. It was not so much damage to the bruised area as it was broken blood vessels above the area leaking down.
The bruises may be a testimony to her being the attacker instead of being attacked.

[mollymalone]

One thing I have found with bruising is when you hit something with your hand it can bust the blood vessels. Like if you have ever hit a soccer ball and it breaks the blood vessels around where the hand meets the wrist. You have bone and lots of blood vessels there without much fat tissue for padding.

If Darlie stabbed the children she likely did the same thing, broke some blood vessels in that area. Blood will seep into the soft tissues and gravity will pull it down. If she lay in the hospital with her forearms elevated she would get blood pooling in the fatty tissue of the arm, enhanced also by gravity due to the forearms raised. Like wise some of the bruising was under her arms between the elbow and arm pits. Her elbows would have little padding and they would have made hard contact with a childs raised knees. Just resting her arms on the hospital bed railings would have increased the blood flow to under her arms where it would pool.
I think this would explain why the bruising showed up so severley. It was not so much damage to the bruised area as it was broken blood vessels above the area leaking down.
The bruises may be a testimony to her being the attacker instead of being attacked.That sounds like a reasonable explanation for what happened.

[cami]

One thing I have found with bruising is when you hit something with your hand it can bust the blood vessels. Like if you have ever hit a soccer ball and it breaks the blood vessels around where the hand meets the wrist. You have bone and lots of blood vessels there without much fat tissue for padding.

If Darlie stabbed the children she likely did the same thing, broke some blood vessels in that area. Blood will seep into the soft tissues and gravity will pull it down. If she lay in the hospital with her forearms elevated she would get blood pooling in the fatty tissue of the arm, enhanced also by gravity due to the forearms raised. Like wise some of the bruising was under her arms between the elbow and arm pits. Her elbows would have little padding and they would have made hard contact with a childs raised knees. Just resting her arms on the hospital bed railings would have increased the blood flow to under her arms where it would pool.
I think this would explain why the bruising showed up so severley. It was not so much damage to the bruised area as it was broken blood vessels above the area leaking down.
The bruises may be a testimony to her being the attacker instead of being attacked.

Yes, that's what many of us think. I myself thought that as soon as I saw those bruises.

[Becba]

Yes, that's what many of us think. I myself thought that as soon as I saw those bruises.
It is sickening to think she had pictures taken of her "injuries" when they were likely sustained while stabbing her own children.