timeline

[tumble]

How does it fit with the Ramseys say they set the alarm to 5.30?

1. When was the plane suppose leave that morning?
2. Did they have access to a private jet? I read somewhere that John had been loading the jet with presents and bags on the 25'th for a couple of hours.
If this is the case probably they could enter the plane really fast. Do you have to be there in good time or can you just jump on the plane seconds before it is supposed to leave?
3. What airport where they suppose to use and how long does it take to drive there?
4. Dressing up making breakfast for a family of four would take some time. What do you guys think about this?

So what time do you guys feel is an appropriate time for the alarm that morning?

[sissi]

Sounds like a pop-tart morning to me... dress.. wake the kids.. put last minute "stuff" in the car and go..

[tumble]

According to the 97 interviews John says

JR: We needed to leave by 6:30 a.m., because we were going to take off about 7:00 a.m., because we were meeting John and Melinda in Minneapolis.

... and the plane was actually preloaded ...



JR: We packed some presents that we were going to take up the day before . . .

TT: Where were those presents at?

JR: Well I taken up, I grabbed them Christmas morning I think, or late Christmas morning and I took them up to the airport Christmas day . . .

TT: So they were already out of the house . . .

JR: They were out of the house and in the airplane, preloaded.

[BlueCrab]

How does it fit with the Ramseys say they set the alarm to 5.30?

1. When was the plane suppose leave that morning?
2. Did they have access to a private jet? I read somewhere that John had been loading the jet with presents and bags on the 25'th for a couple of hours.
If this is the case probably they could enter the plane really fast. Do you have to be there in good time or can you just jump on the plane seconds before it is supposed to leave?
3. What airport where they suppose to use and how long does it take to drive there?
4. Dressing up making breakfast for a family of four would take some time. What do you guys think about this?

So what time do you guys feel is an appropriate time for the alarm that morning?


tumble,

1. The Ramseys had to be at the airport at 6:30 and take-off time, according to the flight plan, was 7:00. The plane had to loaded, passengers embarked, and readied for take-off ahead of time after the Ramseys arrived at the airport. Also, the flight had to leave sharply at 7:00 because the Ramseys were to rendezvous with family members at Minneapolis coming in from Atlanta on a commercial flight and they were to continue together from there on the Ramsey plane to Charlevoix, Michigan.

2. The airplane was owned by John Ramsey. It wasn't a jet. John didn't load anything into the plane on the 25th; he went to the airport that day to mechanically look the plane over. It was to be flown to Michigan by his pilot and personal friend, Mike Archuleta.

3. It takes about 20 minutes to drive from the Ramseys house to the Jefferson County Airport.

4. To wash, shower, dress, apply make-up, make coffee and set out breafast items, finish packing, wake up children and get them bathed and dressed, eat breakfast (they were to be in the air all day and wouldn't have left home without eating), load luggage and kids into car, last minute straighten up of kitchen and bathrooms, and drive to airport: 120 minutes.

IOW, if they didn't get up until 5:30, in my estimation they'd be one hour late getting to the airport. The alarm clock set for 5:30 is an unlikely scenario. There was no reason for the Ramseys to pre-plan a time-crunch. I think the alarm clock had been set for about 4:00 or 4:30 AM.

BlueCrab

[Linda7NJ]

tumble,

1. The Ramseys had to be at the airport at 6:30 and take-off time, according to the flight plan, was 7:00. The plane had to loaded, passengers embarked, and readied for take-off ahead of time after the Ramseys arrived at the airport. Also, the flight had to leave sharply at 7:00 because the Ramseys were to rendezvous with family members at Minneapolis coming in from Atlanta on a commercial flight and they were to continue together from there on the Ramsey plane to Charlevoix, Michigan.

2. The airplane was owned by John Ramsey. It wasn't a jet. John didn't load anything into the plane on the 25th; he went to the airport that day to mechanically look the plane over. It was to be flown to Michigan by his pilot and personal friend, Mike Archuleta.

3. It takes about 20 minutes to drive from the Ramsey's house to the Jefferson County Airport.

4. To wash, shower, dress, apply make-up, make coffee and set out breafast items, finish packing, wake up children and get them bathed and dressed, eat breakfast (they were to be in the air all day and wouldn't have left home without eating), load luggage and kids into car, last minute straighten up of kitchen and bathrooms, and drive to airport: 120 minutes.

IOW, if they didn't get up until 5:30, in my estimation they'd be one hour late getting to the airport. The alarm clock set for 5:30 is an unlikely scenario. There was no reason for the Ramseys to pre-plan a time-crunch. I think the alarm clock had been set for about 4:00 or 4:30 AM.

BlueCrab
I doubt very much that the children would bathe or that Patsy or John would straighten up the bathrooms & kitchen. Pasty didn't even bother with a shower.

[tumble]

BlueCrab, what do you think JR meant we he says they would leave at 6.30?
he also stated that the plane was preloaded???

on the morning JR says that he woke up before the alarm went of about 5.25. He showered and at some point heard PR scream. At this time PR was dressed already and she was in bed when he got up, this means that PR probably didn't shower at all putting on the same clothes as the day before. What do you ladies say about this? Sound unlikely to me.

Even if she did, for JR to shower,shaving and clothing(he was getting dressed...) it would probably take at least 15min and then they hadn't even woken the kids yet. Does not seem they were in a hurry.

[rashomon]

I believe it would have taken the whole family at least two hours to get out of the house, which is why I voted 4:30.

[BlueCrab]

BlueCrab, what do you think JR meant we he says they would leave at 6.30?
he also stated that the plane was preloaded???

on the morning JR says that he woke up before the alarm went of about 5.25. He showered and at some point heard PR scream. At this time PR was dressed already and she was in bed when he got up, this means that PR probably didn't shower at all putting on the same clothes as the day before. What do you ladies say about this? Sound unlikely to me.

Even if she did, for JR to shower,shaving and clothing(he was getting dressed...) it would probably take at least 15min and then they hadn't even woken the kids yet. Does not seem they were in a hurry.


tumble,

IMO John was lying again, trying to stretch the time they were in the house because of the unachievable time-crunch if they didn't get up until 5:30 AM. They obviously had to have planned to get up sooner than 5:30.

I think the Ramseys were up by 4:00 AM; found JonBenet dead; children were involved; a cell phone call to Mike Bynum got things going; and the staging and coverup was well underway by the time Patsy called 911 at 5:52 AM.

BlueCrab

[tumble]

my timeline

passengers+stuff into plane, taxi out, get flightpermission 20min
walk from car to plane 10min
drive to airport 20min
get into car. close down house 10min
brush teeth,get kids into clothing 20min
breakfast 40min
extra time for unexpected hassle 30min

sum 2h30min which means alarm set to 4.30.

[SuperDave]

Without realizing it, we may have seized on something vital:

My dear brother (only brother, thank the gods) loves to needle me on this. He always says to me:

"Guv," he says, "if the Ramseys did do it, why did they call 911 when there was so much left to do?"

I think I know now!

They had to keep this schedule, right? I mean, if they didn't show up on time, someone's going to come looking, right? Their neighbors had to know they were leaving at a specific time. Someone would have noticed.

(Just spitballing.)

[IrishMist]

Without realizing it, we may have seized on something vital:

My dear brother (only brother, thank the gods) loves to needle me on this. He always says to me:

"Guv," he says, "if the Ramseys did do it, why did they call 911 when there was so much left to do?"

I think I know now!

They had to keep this schedule, right? I mean, if they didn't show up on time, someone's going to come looking, right? Their neighbors had to know they were leaving at a specific time. Someone would have noticed.

(Just spitballing.)
That's always how I've looked at it - IF the Ramsey's did it. They had to make it look like they got up, and found the note. 5:30 is about as late as you could push it, realistically.

[SuperDave]

Exactly!

[rashomon]

That's always how I've looked at it - IF the Ramsey's did it. They had to make it look like they got up, and found the note. 5:30 is about as late as you could push it, realistically.
But what is puzzling me: why did they push it so late? Suppose JonBenet was killed around midnight, wouldn't the staging have been finished by 4:30 in the morning (which would be the realistic time for them to get up if the flight was due at 7:00)?
Or could it be that they hadn't finished the staging yet by 4:30 in the morning?
Maybe it took them very long to think about several scenarios before finally doing the staging? Or it was like UKGuy said, that they first staged one scenario and then decided to change it into another. All this could have taken a lot of time, and I suppose it also it took them a long time to compose the ransom note.

[SuperDave]

"Maybe it took them very long to think about several scenarios before finally doing the staging? Or it was like UKGuy said, that they first staged one scenario and then decided to change it into another. All this could have taken a lot of time, and I suppose it also it took them a long time to compose the ransom note."

Could have been a combination!

[IrishMist]

Not too mention time to panic, fall apart, freak out, get it together, THINK...

[tumble]

I think 5.30 is as late as they could push it, and I think they were not satisfied even at that point but time had run up...

If they would have waken up at an earlier time they sure would have seen their daughter was missing. Then they would have to explain why they waited to call the police and what they had been doing in the meantime (note that the RN allows for this scenario also but it never played out this way...) If they go with a story to call the police rightaway(as they did...) one comes up with 5.30.

From PR interview

TT: Okay. So you were going to get to the airport about, a little before seven so you could take off at seven?

PR: Yeah, we were going to get there about a half hour before.

PR only leaves ~20min to eat breakfast, wake up kids,getting them in clothes, toiletting,close up house with no safety margin...


Call to police 5.52(probably close to the time she says she walked down the stairs) have to leave by 6.10 to get to airport at 6.30


Edit: By the way, was the alarm clock ever examined??
And by the way, PR statement about 6.30 contradicts JR's.

[icedtea4me]

eat breakfast (they were to be in the air all day and wouldn't have left home without eating),All day?!! Total air-travel time from Denver to Minneapolis to Detroit (it was the only Michigan city I could of) is only four hours, which is hardly all day. It's not like they were flying to New Zealand. As far as breakfast is concerned, you just throw a box of toaster pastries, some fruit, and some juice boxes in a plastic grocery sack and you're ready to go.


-Tea

[sissi]

Maybe they got up at around 5:30, found a ransom note, looked for their children, called police, and we know the rest.

[Bev]

until morning. Frankly, I think he was as puzzled as the cops until later that morning.

[SuperDave]

Maybe they got up at around 5:30, found a ransom note, looked for their children, called police, and we know the rest.

Well, we're all just spitballing here.

Maybe so.

Maybe not.

[Britt]

until morning. Frankly, I think he was as puzzled as the cops until later that morning.
I used to think that, but I've changed my mind. It was John who hustled Burke out of the house early that morning and wouldn't let Officer French question him, telling the cop that Burke had slept through it all and didn't know anything... already using the sleeping excuse to obstruct the investigation. IMO he obviously knew what was going on and knew that JonBenét's body would be found shortly.

[Cypros]

If I had to fly out in the early morning with small children the day after a big holiday AND it was my own plane, I would not bother getting the kids dressed or fed at the house. I would have everything packed and ready to go -- including breakfast foods -- and I would roll the kids out of bed at the last minute, put them in the car still in their pajamas, and drive to the airport. The kids could get dressed and eat on the private plane. Also, they had the stop in Minneapolis where they could all have a good meal in an airport restaurant before taking off again.

Regardless, though. I think 5:30 is pushing it too late for the parents to be getting up. I voted 5am as the absolute latest.

[tumble]

The thing is we know that they were going to have breakfast at the house

TT: Okay, um, what was you going downstairs for? At the very beginning. You get dressed, come downstairs, stop at the ironing board. Why were you heading downstairs in the, the very beginning?

PR: Oh, to make coffee and kind of get a little breakfast ready and just kind of, we were getting ready to, I mean we had to be at the airport at, you know, I think we were going to take off at seven or something like that.

making coffee and sit down and drink it(you don't plan to just drink coffee from the pot do you?) would take some time. Also this thread is not to speculate what happend after 5.30(according to them...), we know that. This thread is about,
if you would have to make this trip(including breakfast as we know they did...) what time would you set on your alarm.

We know what they had planned to do and how they acted ie no appearant rush until 5.50 when PR found the note. They could very well have stated that they were going to leave at once but they didn't. Does it make sense to set the alarm to 5.30 and then act the way they did for the first 20min until the RN was found?

Another example of the slow goings on that morning,
when JR woke just before the clock was supposed to ring he appearantly shut it off. This we know because PR mentions she was not woken up by the clock(in fact how PR awake we don't know).
PR: Uh, I think he had it set, but I don’t think it went off. I think we woke up about, you know, I don’t remember it going off or anything.

TT: Okay.

PR: I think he just maybe might of, I don’t know how you can turn it off.

He must have awoken her. Then she took until 5.50 without waking kid up och even start breakfast.



From the 98' interview. PR changed her statement to matching JR. Ie leaving the house at 6.30. But here PR does not say she was awoken by JR. Appearantly JR didn't think it was a problem if PR slept until he finished showering. And leaving the house at 6.30 does that makes sense? 10min for parking car, get to plane, enter plane, get flight permission,taxi out,...
She herself says in the 97 interview that being at the airpost at 6.30 was understood.

14 TOM HANEY: So you wake up and

15 you're not sure of the time. Did you happen to

16 look at the clock?

17 PATSY RAMSEY: Not -- I mean, not

18 to the minute, no. I mean -- no. Sometime

19 between 5:30 and 6.

20 TOM HANEY: Okay. And when you

21 woke up, where was John?

22 PATSY RAMSEY: He was up already.

23 He had gotten up, I think he was in the

24 bathroom.

[aussiesheila]

My dear brother (only brother, thank the gods) loves to needle me on this. He always says to me:

"Guv," he says, "if the Ramseys did do it, why did they call 911 when there was so much left to do?"

And what do you say when he asks this SuperDave? I too, have asked this question back some time, I'm still waiting for a believable answer.

I don't suppose you could prevail upon your obviously oh so clever brother to start posting here could you SuperDave? Add a bit of balance to the forum? And is his spitballing as funny as yours?

[Britt]

"Guv," he says, "if the Ramseys did do it, why did they call 911 when there was so much left to do?"
And what do you say when he asks this SuperDave? I too, have asked this question back some time, I'm still waiting for a believable answer.
Here are two:

1. Patsy was working alone and had to call in police and friends before John figured out what had happened... they were protection for her, and put pressure on John to go along with her.

5:30 could've believably been about the time John finished getting himself ready for the trip and came downstairs, having left all other preparations and kid stuff up to Patsy.

or

2. Burke. How were they going to deal with Burke? They had to call in friends to take Burke out of there, and they couldn't hardly call friends without calling the police.

[SuperDave]

I said that my brother asks me, "Guv," he says, "if the Ramseys did do it, why did they call 911 when there was so much left to do?"

To which aussiesheila said:

"And what do you say when he asks this SuperDave? I too, have asked this question back some time, I'm still waiting for a believable answer. I don't suppose you could prevail upon your obviously oh so clever brother to start posting here could you SuperDave? Add a bit of balance to the forum? And is his spitballing as funny as yours?"

Firstly, I thought I answered this already, but okay. I say to him: "Mate (I'm leaving his name out of it per his request!), they had no choice. Everyone knew that they had to be getting up early to make their flight. If they didn't do it then, chances were someone might call or come to the house. That REALLY would have screwed them up! I had him there!

Secondly, it's not often he gets called clever, aussiesheila! It's funny you mention him. He's kind of a kindred spirit to you. He has the same feelings on the case you do! (A few minor differences.)

I don't know if that bit about my spitballing being "funny" is a knock at me, but I did ask him. He said he'd have to think about it.

[Beyond Belief]

I don't usually comment on this case, but have enjoyed reading this thread.
I did place an entry for 5:30. Most kids use less time to get ready for school and most adults are up and ready for work in less than a half hour. An hour and a half to catch a plane twenty minutes away sounds extremely reasonable to me.

[aussiesheila]

Here are two:

1. Patsy was working alone and had to call in police and friends before John figured out what had happened... they were protection for her, and put pressure on John to go along with her.

5:30 could've believably been about the time John finished getting himself ready for the trip and came downstairs, having left all other preparations and kid stuff up to Patsy.

or

2. Burke. How were they going to deal with Burke? They had to call in friends to take Burke out of there, and they couldn't hardly call friends without calling the police.But why call the police so early? Why not wait until they had got rid of the body and THEN call the police? Patsy had already written into the note that JonBenet would die if they called them, so they could tell the police they were too afraid to call them at first, but when at last the kidnapper had not made contact, they finally decided to call them in.

[aussiesheila]

I don't know if that bit about my spitballing being "funny" is a knock at me, but I did ask him. He said he'd have to think about it.Not a knock, I enjoy reading your posts SuperDave, the way you never get mad at anyone. Got to leave the rest of my answer till tomorrow

[SuperDave]

"But why call the police so early? Why not wait until they had got rid of the body and THEN call the police? Patsy had already written into the note that JonBenet would die if they called them, so they could tell the police they were too afraid to call them at first, but when at last the kidnapper had not made contact, they finally decided to call them in."

Well, depending on which version of their story you get, in the interviews with Haney, Patsy said that John told her to call, even though she was hysterical. Haney expressed a great deal of doubt, saying that he wouldn't have his hysterical wife call anyone.

Now, IF she wrote it, then if he told her to call, she had to keep up the subterfuge, right?

"Not a knock, I enjoy reading your posts SuperDave, the way you never get mad at anyone. Got to leave the rest of my answer till tomorrow"

I TRY not to get mad. Because when you get mad, you make mistakes. I shall wait impatiently.

[Chrishope]

I don't think there's any sense speculating about what time the alarm should have been set.

If I had to be at the airport at 6:30 I'd need to be up at 6:05. My wife would need to be up at 4am.

It was a private plane from boulder, wasn't it? It's not like it was going to take off w/o them.

[tumble]

I don't think there's any sense speculating about what time the alarm should have been set.

If I had to be at the airport at 6:30 I'd need to be up at 6:05. My wife would need to be up at 4am.

It was a private plane from boulder, wasn't it? It's not like it was going to take off w/o them.They had a connection to catch. They had to leave at 7.00. And they were a family with kids, not just two persons.

[Chrishope]

They had a connection to catch. They had to leave at 7.00. And they were a family with kids, not just two persons.

Two kids who could have travelled with minimal preparation. As another poster said, sounds like a poptart morning.

Did they have a wait at the next airport? IOW, was catching thier connecting flight a split second affiar, or did they have plenty of time.

Anyway, why is it so hard to get up at 5:30 and being at the airport at the appointed time?

I lean heavily to RDI but this is just much ado about nothing. Besides, give them credit. If they are smart enough to committ murder and get away with it, they were smart enough to set the alarm early enough.

[Texana]

I believe it would have taken the whole family at least two hours to get out of the house, which is why I voted 4:30.


TWO hours? Clearly you have never left for vacation with a person like Mr. Texana. One hour, tops. Two kids, vacation, time allowed for last minute screw ups, five a.m. would be the wake up time.

[Linda7NJ]

Didn't they have to file a flight plan?:waitasec:

[MysteryAddict]

I would have set the alarm for 5:00 AM but --

I highly doubt the Ramsey's went to bed at all that night!!

[Omega]

Tumble said:
"on the morning JR says that he woke up before the alarm went of about 5.25. He showered and at some point heard PR scream. At this time PR was dressed already and she was in bed when he got up, this means that PR probably didn't shower at all putting on the same clothes as the day before. What do you ladies say about this? Sound unlikely to me."

Everyone has been making fuss for quite some time about Patsy wearing the same clothes as the night before. I'm quite a vain person, and obsessed with clothes, and I regularly wear the same clothes as the day before. Especially if you're going on holiday and you have already packed and "preloaded" all your favourite clothes onto the plane.

Was Patsy one of those "I have a million outfits and I like to amuse all my friends by wearing something new every day" kind of people? Or, like me, did she have a few really nice outfits which she preferred wearing?

Also, if, according to Patsy's interview with Tom Haney, John woke up just before the alarm at 5.25, and Patsy woke up while John was in the bathroom, say 5.30, that only gives her 22 minutes to get dressed, do her hair, put on make up, find ransom note, read ransom note, chuck a hissy fit, tell John about it, check on Burke (I think I remember reading she checked on Burke) and call 911.

Patsy seems like a fairly high maintenance kind of make-up girl, what sort of make-up did she wear? I read that when the police came, she was wearing a "full face of make up". Does that just mean a bit of lipstick? Or did she do the full eye-liner, eye-shadow, foundation, cheeks, lip liner, lipstick routine? Surely she'd have to make her hair look respectable as well, at least 5 minutes for hair alone.

I find it very difficult to believe that, if she woke at 5.30, she could have done all of this by 5.52 when she made 911 call, although it really does depend on the extent of her hair and make-up routine. Does anyone know the details of her hair and make-up?

[tumble]

Everyone has been making fuss for quite some time about Patsy wearing the same clothes as the night before. I'm quite a vain person, and obsessed with clothes, and I regularly wear the same clothes as the day before. Right Omega, I don't believe this is strange anymore.


I find it very difficult to believe that, if she woke at 5.30, she could have done all of this by 5.52 when she made 911 call, although it really does depend on the extent of her hair and make-up routine. Does anyone know the details of her hair and make-up? She was wearing full makeup when officer French arrived.
Reading her statements you see that she didn't go straight down to the kitchen but stopped doing some laundry on the way down.
This shows that they were in no hurry. And PR even states that her intention was going down making coffee in the kitchen, that means their intention was also to at least have some breakfast in the house.

She found the note going down into the kitchen at 5.45. That means she give 15min for getting out of bed, putting on clothes, putting on makeup and doing some laundry.


Anyway, why is it so hard to get up at 5:30 and being at the airport at the appointed time?
JR and PR statements waver on when they wanted to leave the house. Sometimes they say they wanted to be at the airport at 6.30 and sometimes they say they wanted to leave the house at 6.30.
It was a 20min drive to the airport. Leaving the house at 6.30 seems quite tight to me.


I don't think there's any sense speculating about what time the alarm should have been set. They could have reasons for putting the alarm time later than it actually was, otherwise they have had to explain what they did between finding the note and calling the police.

[Omega]

tumble:
I think the alarm time is soooo relevant. Either she woke up earlier, 5am at the latest and she and John are both mistaken about the time, or she's lying. There is no way she could have done all of that stuff in 15 mins.

Also, as a fairly vain sort of person, but someone who likes to sleep in as late as possible, I would have planned to wake at 4.30 or 5 at the absolute latest. I dont' have kids, but, if I did, I probably would just shove them in the car in their pyjamas and feed them something later. Even so, I'd need to be up earlier for hair, make-up. Impossible that they would have set the alarm for 5.30.

Although, it did take them so long to be interviewed by the police, that maybe it's plausible that they've forgotten what time they set the alarm...

[tumble]

I think the alarm time is soooo relevant. Either she woke up earlier, 5am at the latest and she and John are both mistaken about the time, or she's lying.

I think this is important to( as you might guesses ;) )
And I think lying is indicative of guilt.


Although, it did take them so long to be interviewed by the police, that maybe it's plausible that they've forgotten what time they set the alarm...

Yes, but it they forgot the actual alarm time the timeline breaks down.
Lets say the clock was set to 5.00. JR awoke before the alarm. When did JR shower then? He awoke first. Would he shower and shave for +45min?
He wasn't clothed at 5.45 according to the statements by PR and JR.

[Omega]

verrrrry interesting....

Another thing which has bothered me for ages is, if there really was an intruder, and Patsy found the note at 4.45, is it realistic to call the police 7 minutes later? The note does say the kidnappers were "monitor[ing]" them and "if you call the police she dies" by "behead[ing]". Surely the threat of such violence would make you spend more than 7 minutes deliberating over whether or not you should call the police?

[tumble]

verrrrry interesting....

Another thing which has bothered me for ages is, if there really was an intruder, and Patsy found the note at 4.45, is it realistic to call the police 7 minutes later? The note does say the kidnappers were "monitor[ing]" them and "if you call the police she dies" by "behead[ing]". Surely the threat of such violence would make you spend more than 7 minutes deliberating over whether or not you should call the police?
The note was foudn 'about' 5.45. Maybe some would call LE without hisitating one second but I think the absolute majority would express their concern about the police bieng seen too the operator. Also I don't think most people would hang up the phone on the operator when they still were talking to you in that situation.

[Chrishope]

Right Omega, I don't believe this is strange anymore.

She was wearing full makeup when officer French arrived.
Reading her statements you see that she didn't go straight down to the kitchen but stopped doing some laundry on the way down.
This shows that they were in no hurry. And PR even states that her intention was going down making coffee in the kitchen, that means their intention was also to at least have some breakfast in the house.

She found the note going down into the kitchen at 5.45. That means she give 15min for getting out of bed, putting on clothes, putting on makeup and doing some laundry.

JR and PR statements waver on when they wanted to leave the house. Sometimes they say they wanted to be at the airport at 6.30 and sometimes they say they wanted to leave the house at 6.30.
It was a 20min drive to the airport. Leaving the house at 6.30 seems quite tight to me.

They could have reasons for putting the alarm time later than it actually was, otherwise they have had to explain what they did between finding the note and calling the police.

I'm one of those people that if I had to be at the airport at 6:30, I'd be there at 6:15. My wife would think it appropriate to leave the house at 6:40. People's sense of time, and their ability to determine how long it takes to get places, and their attitude about punctuality differs greatly. I thought it was their private plane, or at least a small private plane they had arranged to fly on. If their connecting flight was say a couple hours after their scheduled arrival at (? was it Minneappolis ?) then they had some leeway in their takeoff time. I recall something about JR talking to the pilot that morning, trying to arrange a flight to Atlanta. So this wasn't a commercial airliner that was going to take off w/o them. I'm just not sure we can tell much by the alarm time in relation to when they had to be at the airport. It was a somewhat flexible self-imposed schedule rather than an inflexible airline schedule.

Of course you're right about them not being able to have too much time between getting up and finding the note. They might have had to change the alarm time to make it sync with the RN finding time which, as Omega points out, was about 7 minutes before calling 911.

[Chrishope]

verrrrry interesting....

Another thing which has bothered me for ages is, if there really was an intruder, and Patsy found the note at 4.45, is it realistic to call the police 7 minutes later? The note does say the kidnappers were "monitor[ing]" them and "if you call the police she dies" by "behead[ing]". Surely the threat of such violence would make you spend more than 7 minutes deliberating over whether or not you should call the police?

That's interesting. I'd never considered the time taken for deliberation. I don't know how much we can make of this. You might take a half hour to decide, someone else might take 1 minute.

[Chrishope]

The note was foudn 'about' 5.45. Maybe some would call LE without hisitating one second but I think the absolute majority would express their concern about the police bieng seen too the operator. Also I don't think most people would hang up the phone on the operator when they still were talking to you in that situation.

It is weird that they didn't mention the note says don't call police. They also had neighbors over even before the police arrived. So they weren't taking that part of the note seriously.

Last night I was reading a transcript of Patsy talking to the 911 operator. She mentioned that the note said SBTC. She made sure to get that in there, but didn't mention JBR might be beheaded if police or others were seen at the house.

Very weird.

[blonde1]

Regardless of the note, I'd instinctively run to my child's room to make sure it's true, then I'd go thru the whole house, every inch, looking, calling the child's name, because I wouldn't want to believe the note - I can imagine telling my hub to go one way and me the other - I also might be afraid that the kidn are close by and make sure my other child is OK and stays right beside me. It wouldn't take long to check my house, but their house? Plus the discussion about what to do -- 7 minutes is not much time.
Wearing the same clothes: I took PR for someone who'd lay out everyone's coordinated outfits for the next day. I can see her throwing on sweats from the day before, but that's about it. I guess because they're rich, I imagined her walk-in closet with the shirts and pants separated by color - not like she didn't have enough to choose from.
Getting to the plane - that's all personality, IMO - but trying to do one last load of laundry - doesn't that take at least 20 minutes for the washer and 40 minutes to dry?

[tumble]

IMO - but trying to do one last load of laundry - doesn't that take at least 20 minutes for the washer and 40 minutes to dry? My mistake, I didn't mean doint laundry in that sense. I meant PR was fiddling around with some stained clothed and planned for taking them to the drycleaners. But she states that she stopped by the ironing board for a few minutes.

Minutes that are quite scarce in this timeframe.


So this wasn't a commercial airliner that was going to take off w/o them.
Yes, it was their own plane but even small airplanes are not just free to go as they want. They are given a timeframe based on the flight plan the pilot gives the aircontroller before start. And the flightplan was to leave at 7.00.

What I find very interesting about this is that PR's first statements says that they were planning to be at the airport at 6.30, she than changed this to leaving the house at 6.30. I tend to believe that the first statements were correct. Which means that they would have to leave the house at 6.10 which makes a very tight fit with PR going down making coffee at 5.45 with no kids awoken and JR still upstairs in his bathroom.

On top of this, JR didn't awake PR when he got up around 5.30. He turned the alarm of. How could he know that PR would awake at all. As far as he knew PR could very well still be asleep by 5.50 when he finished his shower and shaving.

[SuperDave]

"It was a private plane from boulder, wasn't it? It's not like it was going to take off w/o them."

That's the point. SOmeone would have looked for them

[Chrishope]

"It was a private plane from boulder, wasn't it? It's not like it was going to take off w/o them."

That's the point. SOmeone would have looked for them


Sure, and I see that they had to make a 911 by a certain time, and make every appearance of getting up and getting ready to go. I'm just not sure we have to take the "down to the minute" timing so seriously.

I don't know much about FAA rules, so maybe a pilot could help us out here, but is it really necessary for a private plane to take off at 7 on the dot to adhere to the flight plan? Is there any leeway here? And if it is necessary to be that precise, wouldn't the Ramseys have known that from previous flights, and wouldn't they have accounted for that in deciding when to make the 911 call and what time to state that the alrarm was set?

[tumble]

wouldn't they have accounted for that in deciding when to make the 911 call and what time to state that the alrarm was set? Interesting you ask that cause that is really thing springing point. Why didn't they call earlier if they was supposed to be up earlier.

Maybe something happend in the morning hours and they just couldn't make the planning, RN, staging in time.

Maybe something happened earlier that night and they realized that their initial staging wouldn't hold and they did the final stagings i the morning and time ran out.

Or maybe the timeschedule never changed and they just tried to play up the scenario as they thought it would go if JB had been kidnapped for real.

How the timeschedule actually fits can help us to understand which of these cases were actually true and what actually transpired in the house that night.