the strange marks

[tumble]

I think the marks on JBR's neck and back are very strange.
We see from pictures of christmas morning that at least the neck mark was not present.

Normally bruises ages like this:
dark blue/purple
blue
brown
green
yellow

The marks were described as 'rust colored'
Normally brown/green/yellow means that the bruise is at least 18 hours old.
Could it be that those marks were infact from an earlier occation, maybe from the visit to the Whites.

This 'bead making machine' that FW, JR and the children played with at the Whites, somebody knows how that look like?
What kind of beads does that produce?

To me the shape looks very circular, like it could have been produced by a very round object. Like a ballshaped bead.
The boat shape that is clearly visible could come from a bead with a pattern on it, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass_beadmaking

[Cypros]

Where exactly is the boat-shaped impression? Are thre any photos?

[tumble]

I think the boat shape can be seen in this photo

http://www.acandyrose.com/jonbenetfacemarks.jpg

Regarding aging of bruises it is very hard to determine the age.
So take the above example with a grain of salt.
But this also means that these bruises could be from as early as noon 25th.

[tumble]

Maybe JBR made hearself a long earring at the Whites.
The bruise is placed like she had been lying on a long earring with a bead on a hard surface.

[Britt]

IMO the marks, or some of them, are from Patsy's rings. In the archives are some old threads (you can pull them up with a search) discussing Wolfmarsgirl's very enlightening ring theory. Posted there is a photo from the Enquirer showing Patsy and her rings. Mystery solved IMO.

[icedtea4me]

This 'bead making machine' that FW, JR and the children played with at the Whites, somebody knows how that look like?
What kind of beads does that produce?From DOI, pg. 8 (bolding mine) - After supper, Fleet and I eventually ended up on the living room floor making paper jewelry with JonBenet and Daphne, the Whites' six-year-old daughter. Although it was a child's toy, quite a bit of dexterity was required to make the little paper beads from scratch. Everyone poked fun at the sight of these two grown men (Fleet is a big guy over six feet tall and upwards of two hundred fifty pounds) sitting on the floor with the girls, trying to wind little strips of colored paper into beads to be strung into a necklace.


-Tea

[tumble]

Thanks for the info Britt and icedtea4me.

So probably those paper beads where not hard enough.

Britt:
Is the marks on the back also explained by rings?
I tried to search for the old post but appearantly didn't do a good job... I'll try again

[Britt]

Wolfmargirl's ring info with link to her detailed page with photos:

http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=463185&highlight=rings#post463185

[Toltec]

The second mark is under her chin...smaller mark. Notice the smaller mark is on or near the tape that was placed on JonBenet's mouth. The killer placed the tape on an already unconcious or dead JonBenet, somehow making the marks?

[tumble]

I have read the old post now and indeed Wolfmargirl has a very nice theory.

But, as I understand it the person holding JBR would need to have the rings the wrong way around with the stones on the inside of the hands, is this common practice(yes you know I am a guy now)??

Also I find it abit hard to belive that holding JBR like described would put hard enough pressure on the 'spots'. If you squeeze hard you squeeze with your arms not your hands.
If you clench your fists there would be marks of the fingers also.

Creating that isolated pressure could come from lying on a hard surface with a hard object under you.
If you have stepped on a stone or a lego piece you know what I mean.

[Britt]

But, as I understand it the person holding JBR would need to have the rings the wrong way around with the stones on the inside of the hands...
Did you see this photo on Wolfmarsgirl's page? Here it is copied from the WS archives:

http://mywebpage.netscape.com/maxiyorkie/JBRPatsyrings2.jpg

This is Patsy. This photo is from the National Enquirer December 3, 2002 issue, page 49. I know because I have it right here in front of me.

Note the backward rings.

[Cypros]

I have read the old post now and indeed Wolfmargirl has a very nice theory.

But, as I understand it the person holding JBR would need to have the rings the wrong way around with the stones on the inside of the hands, is this common practice(yes you know I am a guy now)??

Also I find it abit hard to belive that holding JBR like described would put hard enough pressure on the 'spots'. If you squeeze hard you squeeze with your arms not your hands.
If you clench your fists there would be marks of the fingers also.

Creating that isolated pressure could come from lying on a hard surface with a hard object under you.
If you have stepped on a stone or a lego piece you know what I mean.

I agree. While the theory of ring impressions is a good one, I would expect marks or impressions from the fingers as well -- especially on the back. It looks more like she was lying on something.

[trixie]

That picture of Patsy was taken when she was on TV at some point. Maybe Britt knows, I don't. Anyway, my thought is that maybe she was told to turn her rings around because they were blinding or too sparkly on camera., catching the lights or something. This being the only times ( on camera) she would wear her rings like that. I highly doubt Patsy wore her rings that way Christmas night.

[Britt]

I highly doubt Patsy wore her rings that way Christmas night.
But a struggle with (attack on) JB could obviously affect the position of the rings.

[trixie]

Yes, Britt, absolutely.

[SuperDave]

She could have been lying on pebbles on the floor, for all I know.

[tumble]

where there any marbles, beads, pebbles of something like taht found on the flor in the house somewhere?

[SuperDave]

I think there were prongs on the floor safe.

[tumble]

Yes that's right SD, sure would like to see a closeup of that safe.

[Eagle1]

That picture of Patsy was taken when she was on TV at some point. Maybe Britt knows, I don't. Anyway, my thought is that maybe she was told to turn her rings around because they were blinding or too sparkly on camera., catching the lights or something. This being the only times ( on camera) she would wear her rings like that. I highly doubt Patsy wore her rings that way Christmas night.

Not on purpose, but I have one ring that isn't the right size, even with one of those thingies inside the circle, and it gets like these. Also my watch.

And it certainly could have been blinding in the TV lights.

[tumble]

A ring with a big stone arrangment would turn less frequently wouldn't it. And in this case we have three rings that need to be turned at the same time.

[Eagle1]

Yep, it's probably unlikely that all three would accidentally turn at once.

Would think the big cluster of stones would weight it down pretty fast, don't know. Don't have such a ring to test.

[tumble]

Would think the big cluster of stones would weight it down pretty fast

Yepp, thats logical. But at the same time the cluster have a harder time passing between the fingers.
I don't have one either(and probably never will...) so no test on my part.

[Becba]

I remember one of my little nieces got a paper jewelry kit. You had to cut a long strip of construction like art paper and roll it. It would be a strip several inches long of different widths and once rolled tightly it basically made an irregular shaped "bead". IMO it would leave a mark with lines in it due to the overlapping edges of the paper.

[tumble]

Very interesting Becba,

how hard were those beads. Do you think stepping on them barefooted would be painful?

Anyone know if beads like that were found at the house. I would very much expect that if JBR made some jewelry at the Whites she would take some home with her.

[Eagle1]

Would think the big cluster of stones would weight it down pretty fast

Yepp, thats logical. But at the same time the cluster have a harder time passing between the fingers.

Why didn't I think of that? Right you are again.

[tumble]

Becba:

BTW, did that jewelry making kit allow for earring making or was it just necklace making?
Also I think JBR got her own kit. I read somewhere that she played with it during Christmas day outside of Burkes room while Burke and his friends played inside. I am sure there would be some of those beads somewhere in the house.

From PR 98' interview

23 PATSY RAMSEY: This is the door between the

24 cloak room there out to the garage. These are bells in

25 the back door. This door was definitely kept unlocked.

0340

1 TOM HANEY: Could you hear the bells if you

2 opened the door?

3 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah.

4 TRIP DEMUTH: Could you hear it from the

5 bedroom?

6 PATSY RAMSEY: Doubtful. This is the hallway

7 looking out to the patio. This is like a little

8 jewelry making kit, a bead maker. This is for

9 JonBenet.

10 TOM HANEY: Earlier.

11 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah, I couldn't tell. That

12 is (inaudible). A little package. It looks like --

13 don't know. Isn't that a stain or something?

14 TOM HANEY: Is that something with the bead

15 making kit?

16 PATSY RAMSEY: Maybe. I believe it is

17 stacked up here. Earrings and sunglasses and papers

18 and things.

It seems the bead making kit were placed in the hall somewhere, where JBR coat was. Maybe JBR had her bead making kit with her to the Whites(Daphne had also got a bead making kit for Christmas). Then someone must have brought it out of the car and placed it with the coat. Why would the bead making kit else be placed there? Seems also there were some earrings.
Wonder what that stain was on the bead making kit?
It almost sounds like PR anticipates a question about that stain.

[tumble]

Actually it seems that JBR got her bead making kit at the Whites.

From JR 98' interview

8 They had that. They had some little gifts for us.
9 They had given me some napkins for my boat that
10 had the boat name on them. I think that's where
11 JonBenet got that thing that makes the beads.
12 Because we played with that that evening on the
13 floor. I remember that. Pete and I were making
14 these little beads. He was doing it with Daphne
15 and I was doing it with JonBenet.

This passage is in PR 98' interview. Here PR talkes about what the kids were doing during Christmas day.

21 PATSY RAMSEY: With -- well, they
22 were all kind of playing together. You know,
23 they were outside. Then they would all come in
24 and she was making little jewelry things and I
25 sat and played with her doing the jewelry
1 things. And she was in her room, she was making
2 a little pot holder kind of thing, I think.
3 Those little moving kind of things, you know.

So, JBR was playing with some other jewelry at that time.

[Holdontoyourhat]

To me the shape looks very circular, like it could have been produced by a very round object.Or produced by either end of the paintbrush. IMO that was the purpose for the sharpened/whittled/broken ends on the paintbrush. Somewhat like an attacker holding a knife to someone.

[Nuisanceposter]

Or produced by either end of the paintbrush. IMO that was the purpose for the sharpened/whittled/broken ends on the paintbrush. Somewhat like an attacker holding a knife to someone.Why would the intruder need something like a sharpened stick if he has a stun gun? Not to mention, he could have gone to the kitchen to get a knife. Or wait, he had a knife...the ends of the cord were frayed, so they had been cut, and Burke's knife was moved...and there was a paring knife out of place...

With all of these knives and supposedly a stun gun available, why would the killer need to make a paintbrush into a weapon? If the killer wanted to use that paintbrush as a handle and twist the garotte with it, why would he want both ends to be sharp?

[SuperDave]

"Yep, it's probably unlikely that all three would accidentally turn at once."

How do we know they hadn't been like that for a while?

"how hard were those beads. Do you think stepping on them barefooted would be painful?"

You going somewhere with that?

"With all of these knives and supposedly a stun gun available, why would the killer need to make a paintbrush into a weapon? If the killer wanted to use that paintbrush as a handle and twist the garotte with it, why would he want both ends to be sharp?"

If it was broken on both ends that night. Dr. Jones said that it might have been used on her as much as a week before. Maybe whoever did it got rid of it.

[tumble]

"how hard were those beads. Do you think stepping on them barefooted would be painful?"

You going somewhere with that?

Hehe, yes sound strange doesn't it. Just want to know if those paper beads would put up any resistance aganist pressure.
It could be that they just would flat out and then not being able to produce a bruise OR they could be hard and then they could very well couse the bruising we see on JBR.

I kind of like this idea because the bruise under JBR's ear is placed at a position that taked up the force when you lie down your head on the side to the floor. Also this position is consistent with an earring bead.

[SuperDave]

Interesting. Keep going.

There was something else, too. There's a picture of JB from a few months before she died. She's standing on the porch in a little red dress with white hearts, barefoot. On the lower part of her leg are two marks...

[BirdieBoo]

That picture of Patsy was taken when she was on TV at some point. Maybe Britt knows, I don't. Anyway, my thought is that maybe she was told to turn her rings around because they were blinding or too sparkly on camera., catching the lights or something. This being the only times ( on camera) she would wear her rings like that. I highly doubt Patsy wore her rings that way Christmas night.

I work in TV. We don't have people turn their rings around for the cameras.

[tumble]

SD:
I havn't seen that pic. Where can I find it?

[Nuisanceposter]

I think I know which picture Super Dave means. Is it this one?

http://www.maketoast.com/photos/jon1.html


There's a huge supply of pictures of the whole family here.

http://www.maketoast.com/jbrpictures.htm

[Becba]

The beads would hurt if stepped on and you could make bracelets or necklaces. I am not sure about earrings. It has been a long time. I can't even remember if the beads were strung with string.

[tumble]

Thanks for the link.
Yes I see the marks. The distance between them suspiciously familiar...
otherwise I would suggest mosquito bites, very common on that place on the legs during the warm periods.

[Seeker]

Thanks for the link.
Yes I see the marks. The distance between them suspiciously familiar...
otherwise I would suggest mosquito bites, very common on that place on the legs during the warm periods.
Or flea bites...they did have a dog in the house....

[tumble]

The beads would hurt if stepped on and you could make bracelets or necklaces. I am not sure about earrings. It has been a long time. I can't even remember if the beads were strung with string.Thanks for the info Becba!
I think those beads are very good suspects in the case of the bruises.
The bruises on the back are somewhat smaller and could have been caused by smaller beads.

Suppose JBR played with some beads in the morning hours the 26th or the evening of 25th after returning from the Whites. Then something happened which ended up with JBR dead or unconsious on the floor. The beads she was playing with ended up under her and the perp left her in that position(on her back with her head tilted to the right) for a while. Long enough for the beads to cause the marks. Maybe she even had one bead hanging from her right ear in an earring.

[trixie]

I work in TV. We don't have people turn their rings around for the cameras.

THank you, BirdieBoo for the info. Back to the drawing board, I guess!

[Britt]

So was Patsy wearing her rings late that night?

From the 1997 police interview:

Tom Trujillo: So you go upstairs, jump into pajamas, go into bed. Did you have to take off your makeup, take off your jewelry? What’s that whole sequence?

Patsy Ramsey: Oh, I probably washed my face, brushed my teeth.

TT: Okay. What’s your normal get-ready-for-bed routine, I guess, is what I’m asking?

PR: Um, take my makeup off. Brush my teeth.

TT: Okay. Take all your jewelry off then?

PR: No, I don’t take them off.

TT: Okay.

PR: Sometimes, I mean, it depends on what I have on, sometimes I take it off, sometimes I don’t, but...

(JonBenét - The Police Files, p. 50)

Interesting how she put that: I don’t take them off.

[Becba]

I finally found a couple of sites that explain how the beads are made. These use magazine paper because it is glossy. The kit I remember used thick paper, maybe because it was sturdier for kids to use.



http://www.squiglysplayhouse.com/ArtsAndCrafts/Crafts/PaperBeads.html

This one has a keychain and mentions using construction paper...
http://www.dltk-kids.com/school/paper_bead_keychains.htm

The best pics of beads...
http://www.stampersmall.com/classes/paper_beads.asp

[tumble]

Good hunting Becba :)

I have read somewhere that the marks on the back where somewhat rectangular(a more cylindrical bead). Looking at your links it seems plausible that both roundish and cylindrical bead are possible.And these beads sure have a striped surface matching the marks on JBR.

Here is another link. http://www.greensense.com/Features/Living/Crafts/Paper/beads.htm

this link talks about how to make different shapes and also notes that

They make exceptional earrings because they are so light.

[Jayelles]

I think the marks on JBR's neck and back are very strange.
We see from pictures of christmas morning that at least the neck mark was not present.

Normally bruises ages like this:
dark blue/purple
blue
brown
green
yellow

The marks were described as 'rust colored'
Normally brown/green/yellow means that the bruise is at least 18 hours old.
Could it be that those marks were infact from an earlier occation, maybe from the visit to the Whites.

This 'bead making machine' that FW, JR and the children played with at the Whites, somebody knows how that look like?
What kind of beads does that produce?

To me the shape looks very circular, like it could have been produced by a very round object. Like a ballshaped bead.
The boat shape that is clearly visible could come from a bead with a pattern on it, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass_beadmaking
My daughter has a craft kit which includes a bead making thing. I don't know if it's in any way similar - but basically, it consists of strips of paper which get wound around a little stick. It's not sophisticated in any way. You glue the start and end of the paper and when the glue is dry, you string them all together. There are many different kinds of paper - so you get different effects from that. The beeds themselves are just little tubes.

As I said - there may be different kinds of bead makers.

[Jayelles]

The photo above is only one of the photos which shows Patsy's rings turned inwards. There is another photo in which she is wearing a light blue suit where her ring is clearly turned to the inside. I believe the photo was taken as she and John were leaving the interviews in Atlanta. This photo was the first one we found with her ring turned inwards. Then Wolfmarsgirl found the one above which is a better photo.

From memory, I think the other photo shows Patsy standing beside a car or getting into a car. If anyone else remembers that photo - perhaps they will post it?

[tumble]

Have you got any idea why she was wearing her rings like that?
If it was by accident why would all be turned inward at the same time.
If ine turned I suppose you would turn it back again if you didn't want them to sit that way.

Maybe she thought they cought on to things, but then why wear them at all.
Maybe she felt naked without them so the solution was to wear them like that...

And indeed the ring setup in the photo is consistant with the scenario describered by Wolfmarsgils. Very convincing...

Just that the twin marks seem to be a little to far apart. Like she was wearing two rings on her index finger and small finger.
And I would expect a some more bruising on the back from the hands and fingers, but then maybe not if the rings are really pointy and tall.

[Jayelles]

Have you got any idea why she was wearing her rings like that?
If it was by accident why would all be turned inward at the same time.
If ine turned I suppose you would turn it back again if you didn't want them to sit that way.

Maybe she thought they cought on to things, but then why wear them at all.
Maybe she felt naked without them so the solution was to wear them like that...

And indeed the ring setup in the photo is consistant with the scenario describered by Wolfmarsgils. Very convincing...
I've had rings which spin round if my hands are cold but I think it would be unlikely that Patsy's giant rocks would manage to spin freely past the adjacent fingers.

So it's an interesting question - why would she turn her stones to the inside? Maybe she liked to fiddle with them? (Some people do have strange habits!).
I twisted my engagement ring by fiddling with my car key!

[Blondieskatz]

Maybe the police also thought her rings made those marks. Since they asked about her nightly routine a couple of times in refernce to her jewelry.Tom Trujillo: So you go upstairs, jump into pajamas, go into bed. Did you have to take off your makeup, take off your jewelry? What’s that whole sequence?

Patsy Ramsey: Oh, I probably washed my face, brushed my teeth.

TT: Okay. What’s your normal get-ready-for-bed routine, I guess, is what I’m asking?

PR: Um, take my makeup off. Brush my teeth.

TT: Okay. Take all your jewelry off then?

PR: No, I don’t take them off.

TT: Okay.

PR: Sometimes, I mean, it depends on what I have on, sometimes I take it off, sometimes I don’t, but...

(JonBenét - The Police Files, p. 50)

[Eagle1]

I remember bringing this up several years ago, SD, and never got anywhere with it, so I'm glad someone else also thinks they look just like the suspicious marks we're discussing.

In the picture of JBR barefoot, they look like they're healing, don't they? Kids can forget pretty quickly, but she looks completely happy.

Some kind of a game they regularly played?

Or maybe they had some visitor in Charlevoix, who later came to the Boulder house? Maybe just that once, or maybe many times. If he was at the party on the 23rd, where I believe she was molested "because she was so pretty", he apparently didn't have with him whatever made the marks, may have told her to expect another Santa visit after Christmas for that reason.

[SuperDave]

"I work in TV. We don't have people turn their rings around for the cameras."

Know anyone looking for talent?

"I havn't seen that pic. Where can I find it?"

NuisancePoster got it.

"Interesting how she put that: I don't take them off."

Yes, it is.

"Maybe the police also thought her rings made those marks. Since they asked about her nightly routine a couple of times in refernce to her jewelry."

I doubt they asked just to make conversation.

"I remember bringing this up several years ago, SD, and never got anywhere with it, so I'm glad someone else also thinks they look just like the suspicious marks we're discussing."

I don't bring it up often.

"In the picture of JBR barefoot, they look like they're healing, don't they? Kids can forget pretty quickly, but she looks completely happy."

It's a beautiful picture, isn't it, Eagle1? Kids are pretty resilient, if it was from anything untoward. She does look happy, much more so than in some of her later pageant pics.

"Some kind of a game they regularly played?"

I don't think I follow you.

"Or maybe they had some visitor in Charlevoix, who later came to the Boulder house? Maybe just that once, or maybe many times. If he was at the party on the 23rd, where I believe she was molested 'because she was so pretty', he apparently didn't have with him whatever made the marks, may have told her to expect another Santa visit after Christmas for that reason."

Hmm. But who? And did anyone else know he was there?

[Eagle1]

To answer a question, Did anyone else know he was there, well, probably, one of their well-liked acquaintances. Or, since seeing how PR wore her rings, I'm now getting intrigued by that.

Some kind of game they regularly played? Maybe grabbing JonBenet with those armed hands whenever she got out of line?

Wish the PD had also asked her where she kept her jewelry when she did take it off to go to bed, the large pieces she could have badly scratched herself or JR with in her sleep, and maybe they did ask her but we just didn't hear about it. Would she put it in a safe?

The uniform spacing between the marks might suggest a large ring on one finger and a smaller one on another finger? Their being turned at the same time, would that happen if fingers were wide apart at times? Probably not, right? Sure is a strange thing. In the barefoot snapshot, she'd once grabbed JonBenet by the leg? If the marks were made by rings.

[Eagle1]

There's also some discussion of the strange marks in the "Noise Level in the Ramsey Home" thread, in case anyone's interested in knowing where to find additional discussion.

[SuperDave]

"Some kind of game they regularly played? Maybe grabbing JonBenet with those armed hands whenever she got out of line?"

I wouldn't put it past whoever it was.

"Wish the PD had also asked her where she kept her jewelry when she did take it off to go to bed, the large pieces she could have badly scratched herself or JR with in her sleep, and maybe they did ask her but we just didn't hear about it. Would she put it in a safe?"

Apparently, not. Remember, in 2000, John was "attacked" by a thief who broke into the house, which was unlocked, and stole her jewelry, at least the cheap stuff. Don't know about the choice bits. (Incidentally, that "thief" story was probably a phony, too. Let's think about this: if your daughter had been murdered by someone who broke into the house and got away because you left the house unsecured, there's NO WAY IN Valhalla or on Earth that you would EVER, EVER leave the house unlocked with the alarm system turned off again! Especially since you've already told people that you wish you HAD secured the place! That's another strike against the Rs, imo.)

"The uniform spacing between the marks might suggest a large ring on one finger and a smaller one on another finger? Their being turned at the same time, would that happen if fingers were wide apart at times?"

Maybe.

"In the barefoot snapshot, she'd once grabbed JonBenet by the leg? If the marks were made by rings."

Well, if that was the case, it didn't have to be necessarily anything bad, like a punishment. ST wrote that JB liked having her feet tickled. Maybe (JSB!) Patsy was doing that and she accidentally scratched her trying to hold her leg still.

[Eagle1]

[QUOTE=
"The uniform spacing between the marks might suggest a large ring on one finger and a smaller one on another finger? Their being turned at the same time, would that happen if fingers were wide apart at times?"
"In the barefoot snapshot, she'd once grabbed JonBenet by the leg? If the marks were made by rings."

(SD) Well, if that was the case, it didn't have to be necessarily anything bad, like a punishment. ST wrote that JB liked having her feet tickled. Maybe (JSB!) Patsy was doing that and she accidentally scratched her trying to hold her leg still.[/QUOTE]


Having just read the thread again and looked at the linked pictures, I see the marks seem too far apart to have been caused by a larger and smaller ring.

[SuperDave]

Well, that assumes that the early picture has anything to do with the murder.

[Toltec]

We know by LHP's testimony that Patsy normally would take JonBenet into her bathroom to discipline her.

Christmas night, Patsy awakens JonBenet to use the toilet...notices the soiled pants in the middle of the bathroom floor, scolds a very uncooperative JonBenet and then Patsy and JonBenet duke it out.

JonBenet could have landed on her pot-holder kit during the struggle, hence the circular marks.

[narlacat]

"Some kind of game they regularly played? Maybe grabbing JonBenet with those armed hands whenever she got out of line?"

I wouldn't put it past whoever it was.

"Wish the PD had also asked her where she kept her jewelry when she did take it off to go to bed, the large pieces she could have badly scratched herself or JR with in her sleep, and maybe they did ask her but we just didn't hear about it. Would she put it in a safe?"

Apparently, not. Remember, in 2000, John was "attacked" by a thief who broke into the house, which was unlocked, and stole her jewelry, at least the cheap stuff. Don't know about the choice bits. (Incidentally, that "thief" story was probably a phony, too. Let's think about this: if your daughter had been murdered by someone who broke into the house and got away because you left the house unsecured, there's NO WAY IN Valhalla or on Earth that you would EVER, EVER leave the house unlocked with the alarm system turned off again! Especially since you've already told people that you wish you HAD secured the place! That's another strike against the Rs, imo.)

"The uniform spacing between the marks might suggest a large ring on one finger and a smaller one on another finger? Their being turned at the same time, would that happen if fingers were wide apart at times?"

Maybe.

"In the barefoot snapshot, she'd once grabbed JonBenet by the leg? If the marks were made by rings."

Well, if that was the case, it didn't have to be necessarily anything bad, like a punishment. ST wrote that JB liked having her feet tickled. Maybe (JSB!) Patsy was doing that and she accidentally scratched her trying to hold her leg still.Definitely Dave.
As if.
I will never forget that footage of him and her standing out the front of the house getting interviewed about it.
I probably won't forget it because it's one of the only interviews I've seen, we miss alot of stuff being in Australia.
She was flirting with the camera, it was pretty sickening to watch.
They were used to lying their butts off by that stage, they had become experts lol.

[trixie]

We know by LHP's testimony that Patsy normally would take JonBenet into her bathroom to discipline her.

Christmas night, Patsy awakens JonBenet to use the toilet...notices the soiled pants in the middle of the bathroom floor, scolds a very uncooperative JonBenet and then Patsy and JonBenet duke it out.

JonBenet could have landed on her pot-holder kit during the struggle, hence the circular marks.
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Yes and Patsy talks abut how incredibly tired she was that night and having so much still to do before bed and having a couple of glasses of wine.......I also noticed when reading in her interview about the size 12 panties that someone posted somewhere here she said something about those panties were suppose to go in a box of gifts or things being sent to Atlanta and "that didn't happen " so Jonbenet ended up with them. So what does this mean? Patsy didn't even send anyone in Atlanta any Christmas presents that year? She was so busy that "That didn't happen", as in the box didn't get sent. WHAT in the world was taking up so much of Patsy's time that she couldn't even get the box of presents sent off to her family members?

[rashomon]

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Yes and Patsy talks abut how incredibly tired she was that night and having so much still to do before bed and having a couple of glasses of wine.......I also noticed when reading in her interview about the size 12 panties that someone posted somewhere here she said something about those panties were suppose to go in a box of gifts or things being sent to Atlanta and "that didn't happen " so Jonbenet ended up with them. So what does this mean? Patsy didn't even send anyone in Atlanta any Christmas presents that year? She was so busy that "That didn't happen", as in the box didn't get sent. WHAT in the world was taking up so much of Patsy's time that she couldn't even get the box of presents sent off to her family members?
It seems that Pasty was totally stressed-out and exhausted. And I believe those couple of glasses of wine Patsy had also played a big role in her becoming so violent toward JB. Alcohol can unleash aggression, often driving people to do things they would never do when sober.

[SuperDave]

Never saw that one, but I heard his description of the perp. It was right out of the Susan Smith playbook.

Alcohol plays a HUGE role in criminal behavior!

[tumble]

the size 12 panties that someone posted somewhere here she said something about those panties were suppose to go in a box of gifts or things being sent to Atlanta and "that didn't happen " so Jonbenet ended up with them

I think the cause why the size 12 box was never sent was because JB wanted them for herself.

[narlacat]

Yep.
And being the great mother that PR was, she let JBR have her own way.

I'm not sure if they were intended as a Christmas present though, I thought they were bought much earlier in the year and not neccasarily as a Christmas present.