The Confession & The DNA- Karr

[JBean]

Is anyone reporting about the circumstances of the confession? Was it obtained in such a way that it can be tossed later? If it proves to be real, I am wondering what risks are associated with it. I have heard the DNA matches( well on some channels) If this is the case, can there be any other explanation except guilt?

I have not followed this case and am wondering what so many of you that have followed it think.

[luvbeaches]

I asked this on another thread...but I thought I remembered that the DNA was too degraded to be matched to anyone. Is this true? Or am I mixed up?

[JBean]

I asked this on another thread...but I thought I remembered that the DNA was too degraded to be matched to anyone. Is this true? Or am I mixed up?Well that's exactly the kind of info I am after.You know the right questions to ask about this information.

[Charlie]

I'm hanging out to hear what this "evidence, unknown to public" actually is. And how in the hell this guy obtained Patsy ramseys email address...weird!

[JBean]

I'm hanging out to hear what this "evidence, unknown to public" actually is. And how in the hell this guy obtained Patsy ramseys email address...weird!I am with you Charlie. Also wondering if he did in fact write taunting emails to her over a long period of time, how did this come together? Did they fish him out of the Thailand prison looking for the confession to spring him from there?Who went looking for whom?
We need the information.

[JBean]

Was he in jail in Thailand for charges stemming from US or from Thailand?

[Details]

I asked this on another thread...but I thought I remembered that the DNA was too degraded to be matched to anyone. Is this true? Or am I mixed up?Here's something on the DNA - The crime lab has two spots of JonBenet's blood found on the underwear she was wearing the night of the murder. Mixed in with that blood is the DNA of an unknown person. It has taken years to isolate, but forensic scientists in Colorado now have a complete DNA profile of the killer. They know the killer is a male. What they don't know is his name.

Augustin and Gray are convinced that the DNA sample belongs to JonBenet's killer, because of a small amount of matching DNA that also was found under the 6-year-old murder victim's fingernails.And there are lots of other interesting details in this article... http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/12/16/48hours/main661569.shtml

[JBean]

Here's something on the DNA - And there are lots of other interesting details in this article... http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/12/16/48hours/main661569.shtmlThanks Details. That did have good information.

[Nuisanceposter]

Here's another link with a lot of good information.

http://www.crimemagazine.com/solvingjbr-main.htm

[JBean]

Here's another link with a lot of good information.

http://www.crimemagazine.com/solvingjbr-main.htmThanks NP. What do you think about the confession?

[Chanler]

Thanks NP. What do you think about the confession?
The confession, which is supposed to be "partial," seems to have been transmitted in email exchanges over several months with a Boulder documentary maker who reported them to the police. They worked from there, apparently only locating the suspect in Thailand two days ago.

[Nuisanceposter]

I heard the confession was videotaped. I think that was a good idea.

I'm very curious about what inside information he had that leads police to believe he was the killer, and what circumstances he offered this confession.

[JBean]

The confession, which is supposed to be "partial," seems to have been transmitted in email exchanges over several months with a Boulder documentary maker who reported them to the police. They worked from there, apparently only locating the suspect in Thailand two days ago.Thank you Chanler..I did not know that.I kind of pictured him confessing in a Thailand jail.

[JBean]

I heard the confession was videotaped. I think that was a good idea.

I'm very curious about what inside information he had that leads police to believe he was the killer, and what circumstances he offered this confession.So he confessed outright in addition to the series of emails refernced in Chanlers post?

[Nuisanceposter]

So he confessed outright in addition to the series of emails refernced in Chanlers post?I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure I heard someone on Nancy Grace tonight say there was a videotaped confession.

[JBean]

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure I heard someone on Nancy Grace tonight say there was a videotaped confession.we need the information!

[Chanler]

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure I heard someone on Nancy Grace tonight say there was a videotaped confession.
I haven't heard anything about a videotaped confession; you could be right; this is a fast-breaking story. I would be a little surprised though: If they only located him two days ago, I doubt that they would be going to the videotape.

But of course, we all hope that you're right.

[tybee204]

Im having a hard time believeing they took a confession in Thailand for a crime in the United States. What type of American legal representation could he get in a Thai prison? Without representation and the duress of being interogated in a Thai prison being would seem enough to get anything thrown out.

[JBean]

another good article...courtesy of Buzz..very current

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060817/ap_on_re_us/jonbenet_ramsey

[JBean]

Im having a hard time believeing they took a confession in Thailand for a crime in the United States. What type of American legal representation could he get in a Thai prison? Without representation and the duress of being interogated in a Thai prison being would seem enough to get anything thrown out.this is what i want to know tybee..would a real confession hold up? I guess we just need more info! He was arrested in his apartment though. I thought he was already in jail.

[LI_Mom]

Earlier I was hearing they already had a DNA match for this guy?

Now there's not a word about DNA.


I guess he could easily get Patsy's email from her book or the website. He might also have found it by Googling if she left her email at some cancer site or something.


So his confession was to a documentary maker? I wonder how much of that confession was factual & how much was pure fiction/fantasy?

Supposedly, Schiller said there was something about a weapon that they police held back.

I hope the police have some REAL evidence connecting him to this case. Because too many kooks confess for fame or for favors or just because they're nuts. And kooks sometimes guess things about crime scenes that make cops think they really were there.


Let's hope they confirm he's the one & there's a speedy trial and some closure finally.

[tybee204]

I think in a rush to get news alot of misinformation is being leaked.

[JBean]

I think in a rush to get news alot of misinformation is being leaked.WHAT!?

[Chanler]

I think in a rush to get news alot of misinformation is being leaked.
I think that you are right. If he was only identified two days ago (as reported by a Colorado reporter on Fox news), there is no way that a DNA could have been processed already. I think that he was arrested solely on the basis of the email exchanges.

[LI_Mom]

But I heard they've known about him for quite some time so I guess it IS possible they got a blood sample a while ago.


The media is certainly falling all over themselves now to proclaim the Ramseys innocent now that they know who is guilty. Pathetic. The Americab media will NEVER learn how to report news & resist making a circus out of a particular story that catches their interest.

[BillyGoatGruff]

I'm beginning to think it's a wild goose chase, of sorts.

The pedo's ex-wife is providing him with an alibi, which I doubt she would do out of the goodness of her heart, since she clearly loathes his pervy ass. According to her they were living in Alabama at the time of the killing and was there the entire Xmas season. No doubt family members are already digging out videotapes and phot albums to bolster this. She seems to think he's lying just to get attention.

[LI_Mom]

I'm beginning to think it's a wild goose chase, of sorts.

The pedo's ex-wife is providing him with an alibi, which I doubt she would do out of the goodness of her heart, since she clearly loathes his pervy ass. According to her they were living in Alabama at the time of the killing and was there the entire Xmas season. No doubt family members are already digging out videotapes and phot albums to bolster this. She seems to think he's lying just to get attention.Where did you get the idea she thought he was lying for attention? http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/smilies/confused.gif


I think it's more likely he would lie to avoid jail in Thailand but both are possible.

[PrayersForMaura]

I'm hanging out to hear what this "evidence, unknown to public" actually is. And how in the hell this guy obtained Patsy ramseys email address...weird!
What if Patsy and he were friends Or having an affair and she didn't want to see him again and he went nuts and psycho and killed Jon Benet to get back at her??

[Details]

I have a theory - with no solid evidence - but it seems to fit a few of the unconfirmed details. I heard that he fled child porn charges here in the USA recently. Now, if he were convicted on those charges, his DNA would be entered in the database, and if he is a match to JBR, that would be the end for him. The DNA is a lock - underwear and under nails proves that it isn't just something from some factory worker in an underwear factory or some such. So, my theory is that he knew this, and that's why he ran off to Thailand. Over time, his DNA was entered into the system, and they could have a match already, then just needed to find him again in Thailand, and get Thailand to help us out getting him back. And that's where those emails came in.

If the DNA doesn't match - this all falls apart - but I just can't see a police department that has been so badly damaged over this case taking a chance making an arrest and starting this media storm unless they were very, very sure they had a good case. And Thailand had to agree too. Too many reasonable people there for me to believe there isn't some good hard evidence at the back of this arrest.

[narlacat]

I don't think there has been a match yet on the DNA has there?
I was just watching CNN and they were waiting on results.

[blonde1]

This guy seems like an unlikely choice for an affair -- unless he was motivated BY the child, because it sounds like he's definitely a pedophile - between the computer porn and the several trips to Thailand.
I agree with the maxim that the simplest explanation is the most likely -- problem is nothing seems simple here. For him to make some huge effort to get to Colorado during the Christmas holiday, just to get JohBenet, I'd think he had her targeted in advance. But why? Was he getting videos from kids' performances, like hers, online, from other pervs?
Why target her in particular, why go to such lengths to get there at that particular time? How'd he know about the bonus amount?
Nothing simple, so I hope the DNA comes through --

[BillyGoatGruff]

Where did you get the idea she thought he was lying for attention? http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/smilies/confused.gif


I think it's more likely he would lie to avoid jail in Thailand but both are possible.
He was (at one point) claiming to be writing a book about the case, so the attention might be for that reason.

[Details]

....For him to make some huge effort to get to Colorado during the Christmas holiday, just to get JohBenet, I'd think he had her targeted in advance. But why? Was he getting videos from kids' performances, like hers, online, from other pervs?
Why target her in particular, why go to such lengths to get there at that particular time?One thought I had - he seems to work with kids a lot, a teacher - I'd kinda figure he saw JonBenet at a beauty pagent he went to for one of his students or otherwise associated kids. Maybe got obsessed, as pedophiles do.

[SchnauzerMom]

One thought I had - he seems to work with kids a lot, a teacher - I'd kinda figure he saw JonBenet at a beauty pagent he went to for one of his students or otherwise associated kids. Maybe got obsessed, as pedophiles do.My father just called me from Florence, Alabama. Seems this guy taught at the elementary school I attended a few years ago (long after I left, and 3 years after the murder), and quit after concerns about behavior with students were expressed http://www.timesdaily.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060816/BREAKING/60816005

A little background on the school: The University was formerly a college specifically geared towards education of teachers. The university runs the school, and students in the teacher training program do an internship type "student teaching" for a semester, usually 2 at a time for each grade, k-6.

[guppy]

He was (at one point) claiming to be writing a book about the case, so the attention might be for that reason.

It will be interesting to see if part of his research was watching every movie about a ransom note kidnapping to ever come out of Hollywood.

[SuperDave]

There's already a chink in the armor of this confession.

I just heard that the guy claims he DRUGGED JonBenet, but there was NO trace of a drug found in her system at the autopsy.

Cyril Wecht weighed in on this:

"It didn't make sense then. It doesn't make sense now."

[JBean]

There's already a chink in the armor of this confession.

I just heard that the guy claims he DRUGGED JonBenet, but there was NO trace of a drug found in her system at the autopsy.

Cyril Wecht weighed in on this:

"It didn't make sense then. It doesn't make sense now." It all comes back to what did he really say or not say?
So many reports, so little time.

[PaperDoll]

I'm beginning to think it's a wild goose chase, of sorts.

The pedo's ex-wife is providing him with an alibi, which I doubt she would do out of the goodness of her heart, since she clearly loathes his pervy ass. According to her they were living in Alabama at the time of the killing and was there the entire Xmas season. No doubt family members are already digging out videotapes and phot albums to bolster this. She seems to think he's lying just to get attention.

I think she is right... I think he's out to get attention and he did not commit this murder... I could be wrong but when I look over my past history, I'M NEVER WRONG... hehe :silenced: :liar: :D

[Wudge]

It will be interesting to see if part of his research was watching every movie about a ransom note kidnapping to ever come out of Hollywood.


Hi Guppy, I know you extensively followed and posted on this case too (on another unmentionable site that we both are familar with).

Regarding the ransom note, it would be great to know several things as regards the ransom note, e.g., how he knew of the 118K net bonus, what, if anything, SBTC meant, etc..

Nevertheless, right know, Karr's own words are highly probative evidence that currently favor a final resolution to this case, and that seems enough to have silenced most of the Borg.

[LinetteH]

What if Patsy and he were friends Or having an affair and she didn't want to see him again and he went nuts and psycho and killed Jon Benet to get back at her??
In all honesty--this is what I keep thinking!

[Chanler]

It all comes back to what did he really say or not say?
So many reports, so little time.
I think that some of the worrisome reports (the drugs, picking her up at school) come from the head of Thai immigration police who might not have heard these things first hand or simply misunderstood Karr's English. Of course, there are other troublesome elements: A pedophile or would-be pedophile who lived in the same town as Polly Klaas and followed that case closely might have written himself into the next major case. False confessions abound in major cases.

[JDB]

I just read Karr did a lot of reseach in not only JBR but Polly Klass.The first thing the LE needs to do. Is confirm he was in Colo at the time of JBR Murder. I have a gut feeling there will be no charges filed . I saw his ex on TV last night and she was convincing .

[Wudge]

I just read Karr did a lot of reseach in not only JBR but Polly Klass.The first thing the LE needs to do. Is confirm he was in Colo at the time of JBR Murder. I have a gut feeling there will be no charges filed . I saw his ex on TV last night and she was convincing .


Along with many "Ramsey didits", if Karr was proven to have falsely confessed, the Boulder Police Department would be serving champagne.

[tybee204]

I am not a "Ramsey Did it" but this developement reeks to high heaven. I am disturbed that although arrested for crimes in the United States his rights under United States Law are not being protected. I honestly dont know if any statements he is making in Thailand are not forced. Thailand has a horrible reputation for prisoner abuse and interogation methods.

[tybee204]

Carr's expressions and statements remind me of statements given by kidnap victims in Iraq.

[Peter Hamilton]

anyone notice how painfully thin Karr looks?--He reminds me of someone with AIDS--he very well could be afflicted,he may even have AIDS dementia---the fact tha he says he drugged Jon benet and the autopsy report shows no drugs is another red flag here--they need to get that damn DNA test done--now!

[Wudge]

I am not a "Ramsey Did it" but this developement reeks to high heaven. I am disturbed that although arrested for crimes in the United States his rights under United States Law are not being protected. I honestly dont know if any statements he is making in Thailand are not forced. Thailand has a horrible reputation for prisoner abuse and interogation methods.


It would be nice if if he was in currently America and we knew everything. Still, the fact that California has an open child pornography charge against Karr gives, in my mind, some credibility to his confession.

In other words, it doesn't appear that an altar boy confessed.

[tybee204]

And it would seem you would be the first to say a charge is not a conviction. He hasnt been convicted of anything in California

[JDB]

Along with many "Ramsey didits", if Karr was proven to have falsely confessed, the Boulder Police Department would be serving champagne.
True wudge. But then Karr will be brought to Ca. to face the charges in Sonoma county.

[Seeker]

He was convicted in absentia.

[tybee204]

what was his sentence?

[tybee204]

His charges in California were misdemeaners. What makes a charge on child porn a misdemeaner rather then a felony?

[luvbeaches]

Here's something on the DNA - And there are lots of other interesting details in this article... http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/12/16/48hours/main661569.shtml

Thanks, Details. I need to run for a bit, but I'm going to come back and take a look at these. I apprecaite you pointing me in the right direction.

[Wudge]

And it would seem you would be the first to say a charge is not a conviction. He hasnt been convicted of anything in California


True, a conviction in absentia is not my idea of a definitive cup of tea, yet it is worth something. And right now, that something radiates real warmth that Karr is no Duddly Do-Right.

[luvbeaches]

Well that's exactly the kind of info I am after.You know the right questions to ask about this information.

And I have a lot more questions, as you do. I have just forgotten so much of what went on in this case. I don't know why, but this all just seems to fit together too nicely. I hope this is the guy...but I still am not convinced, even with the confession. I guess time will tell.

[JBean]

His charges in California were misdemeaners. What makes a charge on child porn a misdemeaner rather then a felony?I think it is the amount of pornography. I think there is a movement to get that amount lowered, but I am not sure.

[tybee204]

thanks jbean. I didnt want to google anythign related to child porn for an answer

[PaperDoll]

anyone notice how painfully thin Karr looks?--He reminds me of someone with AIDS--he very well could be afflicted,he may even have AIDS dementia---the fact tha he says he drugged Jon benet and the autopsy report shows no drugs is another red flag here--they need to get that damn DNA test done--now!
Yes, I've noticed how thin he looks.. he looks pale and sickly.

[luvbeaches]

Here's another link with a lot of good information.

http://www.crimemagazine.com/solvingjbr-main.htm

Thanks... :)

[tybee204]

The charges in California were 5 misdemeaner counts of child porn. I had thought all child porn was a felony which is why I was confused.

[luvbeaches]

Im having a hard time believeing they took a confession in Thailand for a crime in the United States. What type of American legal representation could he get in a Thai prison? Without representation and the duress of being interogated in a Thai prison being would seem enough to get anything thrown out.

Why was he in jail in Thailand? For a crime he committed there? I need to spend some time and read everything, but I haven't had a chance. If he was being held in Thailand for something he did there, could he have confessed so he would be brought back the the US? I know this is a stretch, but there are nutballs everywhere.

I do hope it's the guy...but something is really weird about all this.

[JBean]

thanks jbean. I didnt want to google anythign related to child porn for an answerI don't either..I know there is a group trying to get the amount of acceptable(?) porn lowered here. But I am not sure if it for the misdemeanor/felony purposes or legal/illegal purposes. I think it is now ridiculously high, and there are instances where several pieces meeting certain criteria can count as one. Maybe like if you have a cd with 20 songs on it it is considered one piece of porn. I am not sure if I am getting that exactly right, I am only going off memory. I think it was recently lowered, but there is a rally to get it lowered more.

[JBean]

Why was he in jail in Thailand? For a crime he committed there? I need to spend some time and read everything, but I haven't had a chance. If he was being held in Thailand for something he did there, could he have confessed so he would be brought back the the US? I know this is a stretch, but there are nutballs everywhere.

I do hope it's the guy...but something is really weird about all this.the last reports i have read say he was not facing criminal charges in Thailand, but rather he was being held as a result of US charges.
But then again, that was yesterday:)

[tybee204]

Thailand says they have no charges against him. he was arrested on the American warrent. At this point I am not believeing anything stated by Thai officials as Carr has no representation and Thai has a history of prisoner abuse and forced confessions. They are not high on the human rights chain
I will wait to hear from American authorites on Carr statements.

[ragland]

i know sometimes things get lost in translation but did the thai cops not look like they were all making their very first arrest? none of them seemed confident or sure of themselves, also the laughing made things seem immature.

[JBean]

I think that some of the worrisome reports (the drugs, picking her up at school) come from the head of Thai immigration police who might not have heard these things first hand or simply misunderstood Karr's English. Of course, there are other troublesome elements: A pedophile or would-be pedophile who lived in the same town as Polly Klaas and followed that case closely might have written himself into the next major case. False confessions abound in major cases.Since he has been 'immersed" in this case, he knows darn well none of those things happened. Maybe instead of recanting his "confession" he will just add more details that don't make sense. You can see it has been very effective here in establishing innocence.
I have no idea if this is the guy, but either which way he is one strage dude.

[luvbeaches]

the last reports i have read say he was not facing criminal charges in Thailand, but rather he was being held as a result of US charges.
But then again, that was yesterday:)

Thanks for the info.

I don't know, but I just have a feeling he's not the killer. Something isn't adding up and if his family can document he was with them at Christmas (in Alabama), then I think he confessing for who knows what reason. And I do not believe they are going to connect him with DNA evidence. I could be wrong...but I don't think this is the guy.

[JBean]

Thanks for the info.

I don't know, but I just have a feeling he's not the killer. Something isn't adding up and if his family can document he was with them at Christmas (in Alabama), then I think he confessing for who knows what reason. And I do not believe they are going to connect him with DNA evidence. I could be wrong...but I don't think this is the guy.It's almost impossible to say at this point. We can't really separate fact from fiction yet..but sure makes for good conversation.

[luvbeaches]

It would be nice if if he was in currently America and we knew everything. Still, the fact that California has an open child pornography charge against Karr gives, in my mind, some credibility to his confession.

In other words, it doesn't appear that an altar boy confessed.

This doesn't follow your pattern. He's only been charged in California...not convicted of anything. So why would you lend credibility to his confession? I thought you were all for innocent until proven guilty.

[Chanler]

Since he has been 'immersed" in this case, he knows darn well none of those things happened. Maybe instead of recanting his "confession" he will just add more details that don't make sense. You can see it has been very effective here in establishing innocence.
I have no idea if this is the guy, but either which way he is one strage dude.
You could be right, but the videotaped confession actually came after the nonsensical details. And of course we don't know what he said in the email exchanges....

As for the one strange dude, I couldn't agree more.

[Wudge]

This doesn't follow your pattern. He's only been charged in California...not convicted of anything. So why would you lend credibility to his confession? I thought you were all for innocent until proven guilty.


He fled the State; his conviction was in absentia. Still, it's not what I would have most favored.

[luvbeaches]

He fled the State; his conviction was in absentia. Still, it's not what I would have most favored.

He was convicted? I thought there were charges pending?

[Anita Richman]

As for the one strange dude, I couldn't agree more.
I'll second (or third) that sentiment!

I still think Some Other Strange Dude(tte) Did It! ;)