False Confession Accepted?

[lizziedripping]

Wasn't sure where to ask this question, so I started this thread, sorry if it has been discussed already. I did want to make this question into a poll but I don't know how to do it, if anyone else knows, maybe they could help?

It hasn't been unheard of for some fruitcake to make a false confession to a crime they didn't commit and I think this is the case here at the moment.

I don't believe for one minute that Karr murdered Jonbenet and I think the Police and the Ramseys know this themselves only too well. However, I believe they will jump at the opportunity to use Karr as a scapegoat and accept his false confession just to close the case, and to get a big smug pat on the back in the process?
Call me a cynic but if it is proven 100% and without a shadow of a doubt that this nutcase did murder Jonbenet, I will still always believe that the Ramseys played a part in it somewhere along the line - "if you act suspiciously, you get treated suspiciously"!!

Question
If Karr didn't commit this crime and the Police know he didn't, do you think they will accept his confession to close this case?

[poco]

Don't think you can just go on his confession alone - think you still need evidence to back it up ---

My question is, though, at the PC yesterday (if that is what you want to call that), it was said that Karr had been being watched for a while and LE didn't make a move until they thought they had all they needed to get him - now they are saying they don't really have anything - YET??!!!???

[lizziedripping]

Don't think you can just go on his confession alone - think you still need evidence to back it up ---

My question is, though, at the PC yesterday (if that is what you want to call that), it was said that Karr had been being watched for a while and LE didn't make a move until they thought they had all they needed to get him - now they are saying they don't really have anything - YET??!!!???
I understand what you are saying, so therefore could they not "make the evidence/confession fit"? I mean, if this guy is innocent and doesn't get himself a lawyer, then he might as well just lay his head on the block now and get it over with, because the Police will have a field day otherwise?

[PolkSaladAnnie]

Clipped from CNN'c home page: www.cnn.com


At the time of his arrest, Karr was under investigation for an unrelated sex crime, two law enforcement sources told CNN. Officials in Bangkok said he had traveled to Thailand -- a country notorious for its child sex trade -- five times in the past two years.

Karr on Tuesday started a new job as a second-grade teacher at a school in Bangkok.

Karr's brother, Nate, told Atlanta Fox affiliate WAGA that his family will provide information Friday to prove the allegation that Karr killed Ramsey is "just ridiculous."

Karr's ex-wife, Lara Karr, said she also doubted his admission that he had killed Ramsey, saying the couple were together in Alabama that entire Christmas season.

Lara Karr filed for a protective order in October 2001 to keep him away from her and their three sons, citing his child pornography arrest that April. In court documents she said that in 1996 -- months before Ramsey was killed -- an Alabama school district had dropped Karr as a substitute teacher because of concerns he was "too affectionate" with children.

More at the link.

Travelled 5 times to Thailand; previous sex crimes; known child predator... just a few items in Karr's vile basket of lures and hooks. Ugh, it's times & people like this when I feel maybe the DP isn't a bad idea after all. His perverted curiosity in child-molestation has sifted him out of the woods - there might just be unsolved crimes in USA he's linked to. If so, bet he didn't think his 'innocent' emails to Tracey would backfire and snag him. Despicable creature!

[Jayelles]

I don't think police can simple accept a confession in the absence of actual evidence. I say this because it's a known fact that evertime there is a high profile murder, a dozen confessors come out of the woodwork! If the guys confesses because of some mental issues, he needs to be protected.

If it's a slam dunk case against him and he confesses, then I think prosecution can go ahead without a trial.

[newtv]

Don't think you can just go on his confession alone - think you still need evidence to back it up ---

My question is, though, at the PC yesterday (if that is what you want to call that), it was said that Karr had been being watched for a while and LE didn't make a move until they thought they had all they needed to get him - now they are saying they don't really have anything - YET??!!!???
It does have a lot of weirdness to it-I dont know what to think..he may be behaving like a sicko does-i wouldnt expect him to be normal-if he was normal he would say he didnt do it.
Its possible he has a motive and I think alot has to be done before he can be believed.
I think we just have to be patient..and let the process take over..obviously if he sisnt do it they will be able to figure that out pretty fast..If he wasnt anywhere near Boulder for one thing??
I dont know if he is the guy-but I still dont think the ramseys did it. Maybe they are one step closer to something..maybe he is part of a group of sicko's and he knows who did it or planned it with someone esle..
I wouldnt be surprised if he is making it up-if he is a liar then he could just want the attention-god Its not the kind of attention I would want.
However, he did not go to the police to confess-they went to him and apparently he confessed to it..If he wanted attention wouldnt he have gone and confessed on his own.

[newtv]

I don't think police can simple accept a confession in the absence of actual evidence. I say this because it's a known fact that evertime there is a high profile murder, a dozen confessors come out of the woodwork! If the guys confesses because of some mental issues, he needs to be protected.

If it's a slam dunk case against him and he confesses, then I think prosecution can go ahead without a trial.
I agree-its only if they can verify it beyond a reasonable doubt that they can accept it and then I dont believe a trial will take place..I think he will simply be sentenced.
I was also thinking about how everyone is disputing that he could be the guy since he said it was an accident?
The thing is I would say it was an accident to avoid the punishment of premeditation.
And he sounds like a pedophile in so far as minimizing what happened.
It doesnt mean it was accidental just cuz he is saying so.
(I know it wasnt-but him saying that it was does not mean it is a false confession in and of itself)

[Peter Hamilton]

False confessions abound throughout history---200 people confessed to a similar crime in the 1930's, the home abduction and murder of the child of Charles Lindhberg---dozens claimed they were the Boston Strangler in the 1960's--Henry Lee Lucas killed 3,but he falsely confessed to 360 murders--why do people do this? nobody really knows

[close_enough]

from everything i've heard + watching the news conference, i think they have nothing but those emails & this goofy confession.....that's why the DA made it clear that they would have liked to have had more on him, but was worried that he would flee & because they felt he was a risk to the children he had just started to teach....(he was hired on at a school in Thailand just days before this all went down).....

what i don't understand is, if they had been watching his movements for the last 3 weeks, how come they didn't get some kind of DNA at that time??...via a coffee/drink cup, a cigarette or something???

seems to me that they didn't get all their 'ducks in a row' before this went down...it was obvious to me that the DA did not want to give this press conference, but was pressured to do it, because the media got hold of it...i heard a TH say that they probably wanted to quietly get him back here, THEN do their investigation....

[izzyB]

last night on "greta" she as much as said the boulder DA had been "had". ie there is nothing to this guy regarding jon benet except an un-healthy fantasy life! although i have not watched greta since the peterson case, i did make an exception the night this story broke and again last night.

while i do not believe this man killed jon benet, i think he was a definite danger to little children and for that alone i am thankful he is in custody and i hope he is put where he can not harm children any longer.

[kato]

I heard on Fox and Friends this morning that one of the reasons they arrested him when they did was to try and prevent something happening as he was supposedly going to start a teaching job in Thailand.

[Cypros]

Since eary yesterday, as Karr's statements became public, hi whole "confession" began to unravel. Every news and talk show covering this story (are there ay that aren't) has interviewed respectible people who have knowledge of this case who say they do not believe this guy did it. I think that Franks and the Ramseys thought that they had a good one to put the finger on because he WANTED to be the one and he has a history of child predation. They were not counting on him making such ridiculous claims that would show him as a liar right off. So, I think the investigation of who killed JonBenet is back to square one -- either the Ramseys did it or some unknown person. However, this Karr guy needs to be off the streets and I think they have enough on him with the child porn case to do that. I expect some more charges against him will come out so that he will not be hunting down vulnerable children around the world any more.

[newtv]

from everything i've heard + watching the news conference, i think they have nothing but those emails & this goofy confession.....that's why the DA made it clear that they would have liked to have had more on him, but was worried that he would flee & because they felt he was a risk to the children he had just started to teach....(he was hired on at a school in Thailand just days before this all went down).....

what i don't understand is, if they had been watching his movements for the last 3 weeks, how come they didn't get some kind of DNA at that time??...via a coffee/drink cup, a cigarette or something???

seems to me that they didn't get all their 'ducks in a row' before this went down...it was obvious to me that the DA did not want to give this press conference, but was pressured to do it, because the media got hold of it...i heard a TH say that they probably wanted to quietly get him back here, THEN do their investigation....
what is strange is that they had plenty reason to arrest him for the unrelated sex charge. He was a fugitive from the law..they did not need any excuses to arrest him for JBR murder.
He could be held till trial on the porn charges because he would not get bail a second time-he is a flight risk by virtue of past behaviour..so it doesnt make sense that they had to hurry..
I mean because they couldnt risk him being lost to them again.
He could be locked up for 6 months or more waiting for a trial on the porn charges and the feeling charges that could be added.
They had more time if they wanted it.

[newtv]

I heard on Fox and Friends this morning that one of the reasons they arrested him when they did was to try and prevent something happening as he was supposedly going to start a teaching job in Thailand.
but that wasnt necessary-he could have been arrested on the other charges and held for a very long time-they did not have to charge him on the murder and they could have kept it all under wraps from the public by not saying anything.

[kato]

but that wasnt necessary-he could have been arrested on the other charges and held for a very long time-they did not have to charge him on the murder and they could have kept it all under wraps from the public by not saying anything.

Yes, the CA charges. Just relating what I heard.

[Jayelles]

from everything i've heard + watching the news conference, i think they have nothing but those emails & this goofy confession.....that's why the DA made it clear that they would have liked to have had more on him, but was worried that he would flee & because they felt he was a risk to the children he had just started to teach....(he was hired on at a school in Thailand just days before this all went down).....

what i don't understand is, if they had been watching his movements for the last 3 weeks, how come they didn't get some kind of DNA at that time??...via a coffee/drink cup, a cigarette or something???

seems to me that they didn't get all their 'ducks in a row' before this went down...it was obvious to me that the DA did not want to give this press conference, but was pressured to do it, because the media got hold of it...i heard a TH say that they probably wanted to quietly get him back here, THEN do their investigation....
Maybe they did get his DNA surreptitiously but aren't in a position to state that because of the methods used?

The other thing that occurred to me was that this guy could be playing a double bluff - acting mad. Remember - he confessed to Tracey and Patsy and the police tracked him down. Could be that he's trying to get out of it. He was certainly very odd in that interview yesterday - what he chose to say was odd - but equally what he chose not to say was odd.

[Lacy Wood]

No, they could not get Karr arrested on those "unrelated sex charges". They were misdemenors not qualifying for international action...not even felonies. Despite the fact most are calling him a deranged pervert, his sex charges were child porn "actions" consisting of looking at a reported 5 dirty pictures on his computer...no actions whatever involving trafficing or making porn, no nothing involving actions against persons. It's already cost him his jobs, wife, family, and country, and if I had to guess, I would say his confession in this case is a type of submission, a giving up, a sort of suicide-by-proxy, even if he isn't completely delusional.

Mary Lacy (please change your name back to Keenan!) bought into this ambitious crime-solver wannabee Michael Tracey's cultivating of a mentally askew guy to take responsibility for the JonBenet killing. Tracey has a history of seeing innocent parents in the killing of children and backed Marybeth Davis here in WV (well known Munchausen's-by-proxy case) when she killed her two children. Lacy's claim she had to protect children and have Karr arrested without bothering to find out if he was any closer than 1500 miles to the death scene or even knew of JonBenet is pathetic and unsupportable. Apparently dizzied from the prospect of solving the case, she erupted with intoxicated glee to get it on. She will likely pay the price.

[TexMex]

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/v-echo/story/444569p-374304c.html

John Mark Karr was a strange and arrogant man, according to many of the people he has met over his 41 years, but none knew if he was odd enough to kill - or make a false murder confession.

One thing his twisted tale makes clear: He loved children.

He married two of them. He collected nude pictures of them, for which he was jailed in 2001.

He spent more than a decade trying to become an elementary school teacher, repeatedly forced to move on by complaints from parents and staff about his creepy chumminess with little girls.

Karr should be "considered a threat to all children," his second ex-wife, Lara Knutson, said in a 2001 divorce filing.

[TexMex]

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/18/us/18ramsey.html?_r=1&ei=5094&en=afaf266815345be7&hp=&ex=1155873600&partner=homepage&pagewanted=print&oref=slogin

When reporters and cameras clustered around him, he finally said in a Southern accent, “I was with JonBenet when she died,” calling her death “an accident.” Asked if he was innocent, Mr. Karr answered, “No.”

But by day’s end, it remained unclear whether Mr. Karr’s confession was genuine or the product of a troubled, attention-seeking man who had already exhibited a fervent fascination in the sexual abuse of children in general and in the death of JonBenet Ramsey in particular.

“There is a great deal of speculation and a desire for quick answers,” the district attorney of Boulder County, Mary Lacy, told an army of reporters on the sun-baked plaza outside the Boulder Justice Center on Thursday. “We should all heed the poignant advice John Ramsey gave yesterday. Do not jump to judgment. Do not speculate. Let the justice system take its course.”

[GlitchWizard]

My only thought on any of this - after hearing him confess and repeating the words "second degree murder" like he thinks he can control his own conviction - makes me think he wants to be locked up and away from hurting children - forever. This is his chance.

I do know first hand from a serial killer, that sometimes they do want to be stopped and kept locked away from hurting other people. So, if it's a false confession to get himself off the streets, it makes sense.

[Trino]

It's obvious that Karr's attorney will immediately request Karr get a psychological evaluation. I can't help but feel it will reveal a man in a distressed mental state, a man who was obsessed with JB's case, a man who had a desire for notoriety and a man with a death wish.

There appears to be quite a few inconsistences between the crime, Karr's confession, and even his placement at the scene - so much that attorneys, as well as ordinary people, are questioning Karr's involvement. The DA may take a hard fall over this one.

The arrest to make certain nothing happened after Karr began his Thailand teaching job is ridiculous when Karr certainly could have been fired on the spot for his past. Did the DA learn from Bush about pre-emptive strikes? And, when all is said and done, will there be no "weapons" to show Karr's involvement in killing JB?

I'm not defending Karr's past; I just don't think he's the one who killed JBR.

[shdbepaintin]

I agree-its only if they can verify it beyond a reasonable doubt that they can accept it and then I dont believe a trial will take place..I think he will simply be sentenced.
I was also thinking about how everyone is disputing that he could be the guy since he said it was an accident?
The thing is I would say it was an accident to avoid the punishment of premeditation.
And he sounds like a pedophile in so far as minimizing what happened.
It doesnt mean it was accidental just cuz he is saying so.
(I know it wasnt-but him saying that it was does not mean it is a false confession in and of itself)
I agree his saying it was an "accident" seems like something anyone would say, even if they did commit the crime. But his saying "he picked her up from school" and drugged her, those are comments that already don't seem like they could possibly be true. I think he is a nutcase and probably a pervert as well. Maybe even a child molester. But I don't think he killed JBR. I have no idea in the world who did, but this just doesn't pass the smell test. I wish it was him and that this case could be solved, but I don't think this will be the solution.
This is just my opinion.

[angelmom]

My only thought on any of this - after hearing him confess and repeating the words "second degree murder" like he thinks he can control his own conviction - makes me think he wants to be locked up and away from hurting children - forever. This is his chance.

I do know first hand from a serial killer, that sometimes they do want to be stopped and kept locked away from hurting other people. So, if it's a false confession to get himself off the streets, it makes sense.

But what a great defense strategy. Commit a crime, confess, but change enough details that no one believes you and you are aquitted.

If he really did it, this is risky but brilliant. You know, the best defense is a good offense, and all that. He would KNOW what has been withheld from the media, and he pretty much knows what they have after 10 years. Instead of looking over his shoulder for the rest of his life, a "not guilty" verdict would put an end to the anxiety AND make him slightly famous.

[GlitchWizard]

But what a great defense strategy. Commit a crime, confess, but change enough details that no one believes you and you are aquitted.
Exactly.

[Maybe So]

Perhaps his "confession" is confused is because he has had other victims and they all run together as one big JBR fantasy in his mind?

I do not know if he was involved with JBR. Unless there is DNA or something to place him in Boulder I kinda doubt it at this point.

His odd statements and behavior do make me think about that long rambling ransom note.

People keep saying he speaks with a soft southern accent and wonder if he uses phrases like fat cat, southern common sense, or hense,....

Further I don't really understand why LE or the Ramseys would be getting blamed because they found this guys behavior suspicious and did something about it. I mean the guy IS saying he was with JBR when she died and does have a very bad background.....and needs to be kept away from kids. Just because the media ran with it to the extent it did does not mean anything innapropriate has been or is being done by LE, the Ramseys or those that support them. At least I don't see it that way.

If any guy ever breathed a single word saying he was the killer of my child...damn sure I would have LE on his ass to find out if it was true.

[poco]

I'd like to know where he is getting all this $$$ to travel around so extensively - Thailand five times in two years?????