Steve Thomas Speaks

[RiverRat]

5:05 MT!!!!! Dan Caplis Show!!!!!

http://www.khow.com/pages/listen-index.html

[luvbeaches]

I can't wait to hear what he has to say. I wonder if we'll hear from John Ramsey?

[Linda7NJ]

What time is the Eastern?

[Nikki 01]

7:05 Eastern

[Eagle1]

Eastern Standard Time, Linda.

[RiverRat]

We also have Tricia on Geraldo at 7:00! Steve at 7:05 on Caplis!

Judith Phillips just called in the radio show demanding the resignation of MaryKennanLacyTracey!! :dance:

[newtv]

5:05 MT!!!!! Dan Caplis Show!!!!!

http://www.khow.com/pages/listen-index.html
easy for him to do now-if he really thot there was no way the scam artist did it-why didnt he say so at the beginning..no respect for this dude.

[Pedro]

Mary has to go, go!

Her disregard for the tax payers, the people of her community and the basics of prosecutorial behavior are appalling!

[capps]

easy for him to do now-if he really thot there was no way the scam artist did it-why didnt he say so at the beginning..no respect for this dude.

I agree.

[cwiz24]

We also have Tricia on Geraldo at 7:00! Steve at 7:05 on Caplis!

Judith Phillips just called in the radio show demanding the resignation of MaryKennanLacyTracey!! :dance:

What time zone is Tricia on and what channel is Geraldo on? I thought he was on Fox News, but Geraldo isn't on at 7 where I am.

[Seeker]

What time zone is Tricia on and what channel is Geraldo on? I thought he was on Fox News, but Geraldo isn't on at 7 where I am.
Check your local listings. Here it's on CBS right before Entertainment Tonight.

[Nuisanceposter]

I can't get it! What is Steve Thomas saying?

[RiverRat]

YumYum - Dimmie - is uploading Steve's appearance for all to listen!

[Pedro]

Dimmie is still alive? 3rd reincarnation indeed, say hi to him.

[Camper]

THANKS

I just tuned in, it is 5:14 PM Denver time right now.

Loving it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you!


Steve talking about DNA advancement now!

.

[justice2]

WOW, so Mary Lacy has always been pro-Ramseys.

[RiverRat]

We have a transcript of sorts already at FFJ! Come peak if you can't wait for me to swipe it! He did an amazing job as always! He did say that he tried to stay open minded about Karr, but he knew in his heart, head and gut that Keenan had the wrong person. :dance:

P - Dimmie is better than ever! I will pass the word for you!

[Pedro]

WOW, so Mary Lacy has always been pro-Ramseys.


Sure she's been inefficient and clearly irresponsible with her use of the tax payers money!

[RiverRat]

WOW, so Mary Lacy has always been pro-Ramseys.

ALWAYS.

[RiverRat]

Here is the audio of Steve Thomas' KHOW interview on the Caplis Show:


http://dimwit.byethost5.com/steve%20short.mp3


This should launch in your audio player. If not, copy/paste the url into your Windows Media player by doing this:

Open Media Player
Click on FILE
Click on OPEN URL
Paste URL into the box, and hit OK
Presto.


The file was reduced from 12 megs, to about 2.5 megs. The sound quality is reduced, but I think acceptable.

IF anyone needs a smaller file, I will do that upon request.

Enjoy!!!


...YumYum

[jubie]

RiverRat, I kind of thought her hands were tied with Karr needing to be investigated in CO rather than CA, did she really have a choice?



Off topic but about the handwriting comparison: I find it strange that people think Patsy must have used her left hand and that's why it's 'distorted' somewhat... I think her hands were shaking like crazy... she was likely trembling like a small earthquake.

Another personal opnion as a mum with a bedwetter. Whether it's her dad or I that woke up first we would go straight to try and catch her before she had an accident and take her to the washroom and then back to bed(NOT 'catch' in a negative way....). THEN I' or he would grab our showers and get dressed... she was first priority in the early morning routine. Just a comment don't anybody jump on me saying "It doesn't prove she murdered JonBenet. DUH! Just mentioning one of those things I thought of.



Jubie

[Pedro]

We have a transcript of sorts already at FFJ! Come peak if you can't wait for me to swipe it! He did an amazing job as always! He did say that he tried to stay open minded about Karr, but he knew in his heart, head and gut that Keenan had the wrong person. :dance:

P - Dimmie is better than ever! I will pass the word for you!

Hi, do you know if I am still banned in FFJ? Can't remember!

[RiverRat]

We don't ban, we ROCK! They are just now calming down when Dimmie enters the room.......you Mr. Excitement.......would get me banned!

[Pedro]

We don't ban, we ROCK! They are just now calming down when Dimmie enters the room.......you Mr. Excitement.......would get me banned!

Yeah, I believe they denied my membership, HAH.

I can see why!

[SuperDave]

"if he really thot there was no way the scam artist did it-why didnt he say so at the beginning"

he DID plan to do so!

"WOW, so Mary Lacy has always been pro-Ramseys."

EVERYONE knows that, justice2!

[luvbeaches]

Mary has to go, go!

Her disregard for the tax payers, the people of her community and the basics of prosecutorial behavior are appalling!

She is so Pro-Ramsey that she will chase any wild goose...no matter how far-fetched it is. She should go. It's that simple.

[luvbeaches]

WOW, so Mary Lacy has always been pro-Ramseys.

Always.

[justice2]

Hey, I been out of the loop most of the 10 years. Didn't know who ML was until just lately.


Ridiculously pro-Ramseys ...

[close_enough]

Here is the audio of Steve Thomas' KHOW interview on the Caplis Show:


http://dimwit.byethost5.com/steve%20short.mp3


This should launch in your audio player. If not, copy/paste the url into your Windows Media player by doing this:

Open Media Player
Click on FILE
Click on OPEN URL
Paste URL into the box, and hit OK
Presto.


The file was reduced from 12 megs, to about 2.5 megs. The sound quality is reduced, but I think acceptable.

IF anyone needs a smaller file, I will do that upon request.

Enjoy!!!


...YumYum

thanks, the link worked perfect!....was nice hearing Mr Thomas talk about the case again, in length, after all this time....class act :cool:
...great interview, RR....

[Nedthan Johns]

what an incrediably powerful interview.

Well done Thomas.
:clap:

[Wrinkles]

Hiya SuperDave,

In one of the past messages in this thread:

>>
"WOW, so Mary Lacy has always been pro-Ramseys."

EVERYONE knows that, justice2!
<<

Nopers, I didn't know that :( BUT I listened to Mr. Thomas today and did a bit of other digging. I'm so far behind so many of you who have combed this with fine toothed combs.

I was very moved to hear Mr. Thomas, as well as reading some of the info from the Whites.

I wish there were a simple procedure for taking certain things out of certain hands so that corruption could not be permitted to reign. It appears that this is a case of corruption on numerous levels - and not at the level of cop investigators, such as Thomas, who wanted to see justice for JBR.

Are you aware of the personal damage suffered by Mr. Thomas or the White's for their stance for justice for this child?

Wrinkles

PS. Thanks for responding to me the times that you have. I appreciate it.

[scandi]

I saw a little segment on Anderson Cooper I think about the various suspects in the JB case. It was very well done and I had no real idea about these people.

So I did a bit of reading this morning about Michael Helgoth, of course thinking of all kinds of questions about him as he so fit the bill for the perfect intruder.

In my reading I read a statement written by a poster named Nathanial, who stated that when Steve started doing investigation work on the case he was very inexperienced, and hence there might have been a lot of unanswered questions about Helgoths involvement.

I saw Steve on TV yesterday and was quite impressed with him, so he has grown into his own, probably through the path of hard knocks just because he worked in Boulder!!!

Scandi

[Anita Richman]

Hi Scandi! I watched Anderson Cooper yesterday and was so annoyed by his "correspondent" who claimed that the Ramseys had been "exonerated" that I threw a (clean) sock at the tube. (My anger management classes start early next week.) ;)

[Toltec]

Dimmie is still around??? I miss the old Cybersleuths way back when...it was jumping!

[Camper]

I saw a little segment on Anderson Cooper I think about the various suspects in the JB case. It was very well done and I had no real idea about these people.

So I did a bit of reading this morning about Michael Helgoth, of course thinking of all kinds of questions about him as he so fit the bill for the perfect intruder.

In my reading I read a statement written by a poster named Nathanial, who stated that when Steve started doing investigation work on the case he was very inexperienced, and hence there might have been a lot of unanswered questions about Helgoths involvement.

I saw Steve on TV yesterday and was quite impressed with him, so he has grown into his own, probably through the path of hard knocks just because he worked in Boulder!!!

Scandi


--->>>Steve may have been inexperienced in homicide cases as were ALL of the BPD. But he was an experienced narcotics man. One thing he said in the interview yesterday in relating his experience in finding drug informers, was that the first thing you need to find out is what the motive is of the drug informant.

I found this very telling and it harkened me back to my thoughts about BOATMAN in WAterford Michigan, who came forward saying he was offered $10,000.00 by someone who purported to be JAR, trying to BUY a boat accident with JonBenet in the boat.

What was Boatmans motive for coming forward, was it to help find WHO killed JonBenet, or WHAT? Boatman was an undercover drug informant for WPD. Yet when BPD queried WPD, they said he was unreliable, huh?

Steve said he thoroughly enjoyed his work in narcotics undercover.

.

[scandi]

LOL I need to go read up on Boatman as I know virtually nothing about him. WPD - trying to think what city W would be. You're wondering if there was a drug connection involved with her killing Camper?

I'm beginning to think the male DNA in the panties is not from the killer. Did they compare it to all the other suspects DNA? Were all the hand prints compared, like the prints on the baseball bat? This might be OT here, but you guys are so knowledgable about the case and you are right here! LOL

Scandi

[Wrinkles]

After reading through this thread and hearing Mr. Thomas on the "sound" link that was shared with all of us, I was curious about how the law suit ended, after the writing of his book. I wanted to see how this man did at the end of this suit, this man who appeared to have integrity and no motive other than to see justice for JBR.

Someone mentioned a website. I went and found this link, for any who are interested:
http://www.forstevethomas.com/08062002letter.htm

W

[Camper]

LOL I need to go read up on Boatman as I know virtually nothing about him. WPD - trying to think what city W would be. You're wondering if there was a drug connection involved with her killing Camper?

I'm beginning to think the male DNA in the panties is not from the killer. Did they compare it to all the other suspects DNA? Were all the hand prints compared, like the prints on the baseball bat? This might be OT here, but you guys are so knowledgable about the case and you are right here! LOL

Scandi


--->>>Waterford MI. Much water sports there. Two airports a smaller one is Pontiac airport, which primarilly handles corporate planes (isn't that interesting). The other is called Detroit Metro.

I lost my big post here, so later.

.

[Eagle1]

For the record, I do at least have this answer, if not Who Killed JonBenet.

Metro Airport is in the SW suburbs, about 3 mi from me, and Pontiac is NW, quite a distance. I would guess about 50 mi, but you're probably looking at Mapquest or something so I'll leave that up to you.

I've been to visit my daughter and her hubby in Waterford, worried about finding my way to their place and back, and didn't look around much but it's not on any large body of water. Maybe some lakes, for all I know, but not the Great Lakes. That info might be at Mapquest too?

Glad we're getting back to subjects other than Karr.

Long shot, maybe Boatman is a pedophile as well as an informant? Nah, I don't really have any theory like that.

[Camper]

For the record, I do at least have this answer, if not Who Killed JonBenet.

Metro Airport is in the SW suburbs, about 3 mi from me, and Pontiac is NW, quite a distance. I would guess about 50 mi, but you're probably looking at Mapquest or something so I'll leave that up to you.

I've been to visit my daughter and her hubby in Waterford, worried about finding my way to their place and back, and didn't look around much but it's not on any large body of water. Maybe some lakes, for all I know, but not the Great Lakes. That info might be at Mapquest too?

Glad we're getting back to subjects other than Karr.

Long shot, maybe Boatman is a pedophile as well as an informant? Nah, I don't really have any theory like that.


--->>>Nopey, I got my info from a desk clerk at a hotel in Waterford over the phone 'about' the corporate plane activity at te Pontiac airport.

I had looked up 'a long time ago', but believe there are boat races near Waterford that are attended by large numbers of folks.

.

[Juliet10]

Steve Thomas has some gall parading around and gloating on national television. If the dna didn't match he would've been missing in action and never show his face on television again. This guy's police work and half-baked theories is the main reason this case is such a huge mess to begin with. He actually said he thinks that Wood may have been the one to open the basement window. He has absolutely no proof and make wild accusations! No wonder this case is in the shape that it is.

They definately have to go back over all the work Thomas did and double check everything done by him and the keystone cops at the beginning.
Anything he has been involved with can't be trusted or relied on to have been done correctly.

Helgoth proves that a proper investigation of suspects hasn't been done at all. He didn't commit suicide. They totally dismissed him and the guy had a stun gun, was guilty of molesting girlfriend's kid, liked to break into homes for thrill, talked about a large sum of money and had a video newsbroadcast tape of another missing girl. Yet they said, "nothing to see here. move along. nothing to do with ramsey. a suicide. the dna doesn't match, so let's go get some donuts."

The detectives need to start from the beginning and question people over again. See if someone has slipped through the cracks or look for thinks they may have dismissed as unimportant. I'm not confident in the job they've done so far in ivestigating people or the analyizing all the facts and evidence. With everything that has happened people shouldn't have much confidence in the case so far. The only way I see them ever "solving" the case is a whole lotta luck, a dna hit from the datbank or a confession. The case won't be solve by the investigators that's for sure. They need new people to take a fresh look at the case. Bring some experienced people from New York or Chicago or new forensic people.

NYPD detectives had a gut feeling in the Imette St. guillen case did follow-up of the falls bar owner. When they questioned him again, he cracked and admitted he lied. Just imagine if they were lazy police like the bolder team, they would've never solved the case. If they didn't do that and don't do a thourogh investigation the killer(littlejohn) would've gone free and gotten rid of evidence.

[Wrinkles]

Hiya Juliet10,

You wrote:
"Steve Thomas has some gall parading around and gloating on national television."

Odd, I didn't get the impression that this man was full of gall, parading or gloating. Can you point me in the direction of things that prove this?

W

[ljwf22]

Wow! Imagine if Steve Thomas had been allowed to interview the Ramseys right away!

[justice2]

Hiya Juliet10,

You wrote:
"Steve Thomas has some gall parading around and gloating on national television."

Odd, I didn't get the impression that this man was full of gall, parading or gloating. Can you point me in the direction of things that prove this?

WThis is from the person that thinks her "handwriting analysis" is correct.

We should glad we have Steve Thomas. No telling how much would have been hidden forever without him.

[Juliet10]

Hiya Juliet10,

You wrote:
"Steve Thomas has some gall parading around and gloating on national television."

Odd, I didn't get the impression that this man was full of gall, parading or gloating. Can you point me in the direction of things that prove this?

W
I havn't seen steve thomas on any talk shows for a long time. Only when the dna came back was he confident to comment on the case or show his face.

[Camper]

No can't be can it, Paula Woodward posting on WS, mumble mumble.

Everyone is ignorant only on different subjects, Will Rogers said that, he was very homespun and full of common sense. Yeppers I loved old Will Rogers, may his soul rest in peace.

I am also noticing the same people are baack on WS, and wearing multiple hats, how can that happen in this day of Hi Tec?

Grumble, grumble, more I will not say, but I am noticing!

With a time machine perhaps we could get Lacy to turn back our clocks to Dec 26, 1996, and let the FBI stay when they arrived on the scene. OH and bring a cadaver dog ASAP, and a scent dog ASAP, oh and separate the R's and get quick and good information ASAP.

IF IF WE had done that, then, WE would be discussing something else here today.

.

.

[Brutal Truth]

Oh come on he worked on this case for a long, I think he knew well before the dna was tested. People who have studied this case for years knew deep down JMK was a farce.

[ljwf22]

Did you catch Steve Thomas on Nancy Grace? Was almost worth the scratch-on-the-chalkboard feeling I get listening to her.

[Juliet10]

This is from the person that thinks her "handwriting analysis" is correct.

We should glad we have Steve Thomas. No telling how much would have been hidden forever without him.
Karrs writing and the ransom note match much better than patsy's.
If he didn't write the note, Patsy surely didn't. His matched much better from only one sample taken 20 years earlier than all the samples patsy submitted combined.

Plus they had about a bazillion samples taken from her and they made her write it exactly the same as the note. the same words and everything and they still only got tiny amount of similarities between a few letters that could happen by chance, ink blob similarities and touching letters that happen in everyones writing. Sharpies are notorious for making letters touch because people write as they would with a pencil and don't compensate for space needed for wider letters. Whole words and sentences should've looked exactly the same if they had that many handwriting samples from Patsy. The writing doesn't match Patsy.

[justice2]

The handwriting matches Patsy's.

[Juliet10]

The handwriting matches Patsy's.
Whole words, sentences, and the letters should've looked the same in every sample, in every line and in almost every word. That didn't happen. Only a few letters look the same. Almost everyone writes their f's, y's, o's and other letters pointed out by the expert in the PDF file the same. The letters weren't very unique versions of "F" etc. Plus they only came up with two out of all those samples.

She is a 4.5 instead of 5, which mean she was almost eliminated.

[justice2]

Whole words, sentences, and the letters should've looked the same in every sample, in every line and in almost every word. That didn't happen. Only a few letters look the same. Almost everyone writes their f's, y's, o's and other letters pointed out by the expert in the PDF file the same. The letters weren't very unique versions of "F" etc. Plus they only came up with two out of all those samples.

She is a 4.5 instead of 5, which mean she was almost eliminated.Only by you.

[Brutal Truth]

Karrs writing and the ransom note match much better than patsy's.
If he didn't write the note, Patsy surely didn't. His matched much better from only one sample taken 20 years earlier than all the samples patsy submitted combined.

Plus they had about a bazillion samples taken from her and they made her write it exactly the same as the note. the same words and everything and they still only got tiny amount of similarities between a few letters that could happen by chance, ink blob similarities and touching letters that happen in everyones writing. Sharpies are notorious for making letters touch because people write as they would with a pencil and don't compensate for space needed for wider letters. Whole words and sentences should've looked exactly the same if they had that many handwriting samples from Patsy. The writing doesn't match Patsy.

JMK was cleared of this case and your still saying his writing was a closer match than Patsy's. Unbelieveable. You just refuse to see the facts. JMK's handwriting is not even remotely as close as patsys. Have you seen all the comparisons posted around here between patsys writing and the RN? You need to look at them again even if you have. Not only are the most of the letters the same, but wordstructure is pretty much spot on.

Funny out of all the people whos handwriting LE took Patsy is the only one who couldnt be eliminated. Wonder why?

Plus, did it ever occur to you that when LE had Patsy rewrite the note she was much more relaxed?

[Peter Hamilton]

brutaltruth--totally agree--I don't think juliet10 ever bothered going to candyrose or looked at SuperDave's or PagingDrDirects links that show Patti's similarities emphatically---admitting when one is wrong is not always easy

[sandraladeda]

Hiya Juliet10,

You wrote:
"Steve Thomas has some gall parading around and gloating on national television."

Odd, I didn't get the impression that this man was full of gall, parading or gloating. Can you point me in the direction of things that prove this?

WI second that request. ST is synonymous with "class act" as far as I am concerned. He kept his mouth shut through this whole debacle. And now when he speaks, he is quite diplomatic, fair, but honest, and accurate, imo, in his assessment of the recent events.

Juliet, I dare you, no I double dare you, actually, I triple dare you to read Steve Thomas's book, and then come back here and tell us your eyes have not been opened. It is quite an education, imho....

ST was JBR's best hope for justice....imho

[Camper]

Remember an old saying, it ain't what you said its the way how you said it?

Not just the handwriting curves and issues that concern a handwriting specialist, BUT what was said that was so familiar, it was also the sentence structure the usage of words.

Twilight, if you are still reading come and please post some of your original work on the structure part of the note.

If Twilight is not posting, then perhaps someone has her work in their records, 'Moderator do WE need permission to quote and repost another posters work who may no longer be posting here?'

Twilights work was brilliant. Her type of analysis was working its way into the judicial court system, would like an update on that too.

.

[sandraladeda]

Camper, you are a whip for remembering twilight. i just rolled thru her posts, and I am amazed at what an insightful poster she is. A handful of her posts I dug up -

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=593510#post593510 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=593510#post593510) post #87



http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=591052#post591052 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=591052#post591052) post #31



http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=587580#post587580 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=587580#post587580) post# 11



http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=136909#post136909 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=136909#post136909) post #113


Thanks Camper, for remembering Twilight....

I would love to see links to other such analyses...i know I have seen them, I just forget where.....

[LinasK]

Steve Thomas has some gall parading around and gloating on national television. If the dna didn't match he would've been missing in action and never show his face on television again. This guy's police work and half-baked theories is the main reason this case is such a huge mess to begin with.
Nope! Linda Arndt is to blame for not personally searching the house herself and letting John do it, then when he found the body letting him carry it upstairs!!!

[IrishMist]

Steve Thomas has some gall parading around and gloating on national television. If the dna didn't match he would've been missing in action and never show his face on television again. This guy's police work and half-baked theories is the main reason this case is such a huge mess to begin with. He actually said he thinks that Wood may have been the one to open the basement window. He has absolutely no proof and make wild accusations! No wonder this case is in the shape that it is.I disagree here. If the DNA matched, and JMK could be placed in Boulder 12/96, I think Mr. Thomas would have been more than happy to admit he was wrong. I believe that because above all, with all of his heart, Mr. Thomas wants justice for JonBenét.


The detectives need to start from the beginning and question people over again. See if someone has slipped through the cracks or look for thinks they may have dismissed as unimportant. I'm not confident in the job they've done so far in ivestigating people or the analyizing all the facts and evidence. With everything that has happened people shouldn't have much confidence in the case so far. The only way I see them ever "solving" the case is a whole lotta luck, a dna hit from the datbank or a confession. The case won't be solve by the investigators that's for sure. They need new people to take a fresh look at the case. Bring some experienced people from New York or Chicago or new forensic people.I agree with this. They have mountains of information. I think taking a look with fresh eyes is a good idea. I'd also like more information i.e., let the people who testified for the Grand Jury speak. At this point, what could it hurt?

There are some brilliant minds out here. I've been blown away by the time, effort, and care people have put into this case. With access to all of the information, I really believe we could crack it.

[Camper]

I disagree here. If the DNA matched, and JMK could be placed in Boulder 12/96, I think Mr. Thomas would have been more than happy to admit he was wrong. I believe that because above all, with all of his heart, Mr. Thomas wants justice for JonBenét.


I agree with this. They have mountains of information. I think taking a look with fresh eyes is a good idea. I'd also like more information i.e., let the people who testified for the Grand Jury speak. At this point, what could it hurt?

There are some brilliant minds out here. I've been blown away by the time, effort, and care people have put into this case. With access to all of the information, I really believe we could crack it.




--->>>Amen.

A very fresh look is desperately needed in this case.

.

.

[Nuisanceposter]

I have to agree about Steve Thomas. His main goal from day one was the serve justice to JonBenet - he actually sat beside her grave and cried because he couldn't give it to her despite his best efforts. If there was solid proof that someone other than who he suspected was the killer, I don't think he would have a problem admitting he was wrong and would be relieved that the right person was being held accountable.

[Camper]

I have to agree about Steve Thomas. His main goal from day one was the serve justice to JonBenet - he actually sat beside her grave and cried because he couldn't give it to her despite his best efforts. If there was solid proof that someone other than who he suspected was the killer, I don't think he would have a problem admitting he was wrong and would be relieved that the right person was being held accountable.




--->>>:clap::clap:

.

[Seeker]

Steve Thomas has some gall parading around and gloating on national television. If the dna didn't match he would've been missing in action and never show his face on television again. This guy's police work and half-baked theories is the main reason this case is such a huge mess to begin with. He actually said he thinks that Wood may have been the one to open the basement window. He has absolutely no proof and make wild accusations! No wonder this case is in the shape that it is.

They definately have to go back over all the work Thomas did and double check everything done by him and the keystone cops at the beginning.
Anything he has been involved with can't be trusted or relied on to have been done correctly.

Helgoth proves that a proper investigation of suspects hasn't been done at all. He didn't commit suicide. They totally dismissed him and the guy had a stun gun, was guilty of molesting girlfriend's kid, liked to break into homes for thrill, talked about a large sum of money and had a video newsbroadcast tape of another missing girl. Yet they said, "nothing to see here. move along. nothing to do with ramsey. a suicide. the dna doesn't match, so let's go get some donuts."

The detectives need to start from the beginning and question people over again. See if someone has slipped through the cracks or look for thinks they may have dismissed as unimportant. I'm not confident in the job they've done so far in ivestigating people or the analyizing all the facts and evidence. With everything that has happened people shouldn't have much confidence in the case so far. The only way I see them ever "solving" the case is a whole lotta luck, a dna hit from the datbank or a confession. The case won't be solve by the investigators that's for sure. They need new people to take a fresh look at the case. Bring some experienced people from New York or Chicago or new forensic people.

NYPD detectives had a gut feeling in the Imette St. guillen case did follow-up of the falls bar owner. When they questioned him again, he cracked and admitted he lied. Just imagine if they were lazy police like the bolder team, they would've never solved the case. If they didn't do that and don't do a thourogh investigation the killer(littlejohn) would've gone free and gotten rid of evidence.
First of all you shouldn't slam someone on their "inacuracies" when you're just as inacurate in your posts. First of all the DNA didn't match, and ST was asked his opinion on this guy and the case. He gave it and was rather articulate as someone said he's grown into his own. If the DNA had matched I feel confident he would have still been asked and given his opinion on it.
Second, he didn't say Wood, he said WHITE as in Fleet White Jr. I believe he said (somewhere) that Fleet White Jr told him, or said in a depo about opening the window that morning.
Third ST wasn't on the case for the first 3 days, so slamming him for things not done then is also inacurate.
Fourth you cannot compare the St Guillien case with this one. They are absolutely nothing alike. In that case there were witnesses AND forensic evidence, there is only some forensic evidence in the JB case.

[Seeker]

Only by you.
Well that's not true either. The CBI and Secret Service also practically eliminated her, so had other handwriting experts.
Their actual words on the probability of it being Patsy's writing were "little to no basis for a match". They all but eliminated her...sorry, but they did.

I always thought the note was a collaborative effort by John & Patsy, just like their book was.

[Seeker]

Nope! Linda Arndt is to blame for not personally searching the house herself and letting John do it, then when he found the body letting him carry it upstairs!!!
Now is that fair? When LA got to the house she asked the officers that were there if the house was "secure". When cops secure a residence it means it's been thouroughly searched. She had no way of knowing that it wasn't secured. Then she was abandoned by all due to Koby's calling them all back to the station to "review" the situation.

I think she should have removed all the non essential players too, but she didn't and she may not have felt she had the authority to do so...

[Seeker]

Did you catch Steve Thomas on Nancy Grace? Was almost worth the scratch-on-the-chalkboard feeling I get listening to her.
Yes, I caught a repeat of the show. I wished I could have called in and reminded Steve that the real reason Lacy will never try this case is because she was HAND PICKED by Mr Plea Deal DA in your Pocket Hunter...

Other than that I agreed with a lot of what he said and I know he still reads here.

Hey Steve good going.

Out to Steve Thomas, who put his heart and soul into finding the killer of JonBenet Ramsey. I don`t get their discussion of an airtight case, Steve. They`ve got no DNA, no fingerprint, no palm print, no footprint matching. He`s not in the city, he`s not even in the same state the night that she`s killed. What were they thinking?

THOMAS: What I continue, Nancy, to witness from this district attorney`s office is simply inconceivable. She had an insufficient and incomplete case, in which, unfortunately now, speaking with friends in the Colorado law enforcement community, she has lost all credibility within the cops and detectives. And I can tell you, the Boulder Police Department is outraged and livid about being drug back into this after being removed from it in December of 2002.

But Nancy, you`re absolutely right. You tack down and then you double tack down, you corroborate, you create a nexus, you check airline passenger manifests, you show that he was in the home, you pull the victim`s funeral video, you show him in the back row at the church, for example. And there`s only three ways to solve a crime, through witnesses, through evidence or through a confession, and they acted solely on confessionary statements from this 51-50 (ph) cuckoo and without any other corroboration. And it just simply boggles my mind.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0608/29/ng.01.html

[RiverRat]

Seeker - is that really you? This is twice this week.....

[Seeker]

Seeker - is that really you? This is twice this week.....
Don't get your hopes up Rat. I still think what he did and the way he went about it were morally and ethically wrong, but it's in the past and can't be changed.

Moving on...

[RiverRat]

Yeah, but....

:waitasec:

[SuperDave]

"Are you aware of the personal damage suffered by Mr. Thomas or the White's for their stance for justice for this child?"

YEAH!

"He actually said he thinks that Wood may have been the one to open the basement window. He has absolutely no proof and make wild accusations! No wonder this case is in the shape that it is."

Not Wood, White.

"The handwriting matches Patsy's."

I'm afraid so. Anyone looking at those charts can see it.

"She is a 4.5 instead of 5, which mean she was almost eliminated."

Wrong. That was the ruling by her privately hired experts. And even THEY couldn't rule her out!

"Have you seen all the comparisons posted around here between patsys writing and the RN? You need to look at them again even if you have. Not only are the most of the letters the same, but wordstructure is pretty much spot on."

Yeah, if you can't believe your own eyes, what can you believe?

"Funny out of all the people whos handwriting LE took Patsy is the only one who couldnt be eliminated. Wonder why?"

When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.

"Plus, did it ever occur to you that when LE had Patsy rewrite the note she was much more relaxed?"

Plus the fact she CHANGED her writing after the killing!

"Not just the handwriting curves and issues that concern a handwriting specialist, BUT what was said that was so familiar, it was also the sentence structure the usage of words."

YES! Linguistics plays a big role in it. Patsy's own sister and mother said the writing looked like hers.

"Well that's not true either. The CBI and Secret Service also practically eliminated her, so had other handwriting experts.
Their actual words on the probability of it being Patsy's writing were "little to no basis for a match". They all but eliminated her...sorry, but they did."

Sorry, Seeker. That's wrong. CBI man said she wrote it, but he couldn't say so in court. Speckin said it wasn't likely that anyone else could have done it, and even her OWN experts couldn't eliminate her. Plus, there's that little matter of the ten experts who say she wrote it.

Incidentally, one of the Ass't DAs at the presser yesterday slipped up and said that the infamous "1-5" scale has been reversed! "5" is actually a match! Can you beat that?

[Love_Mama]

Nope! Linda Arndt is to blame for not personally searching the house herself and letting John do it, then when he found the body letting him carry it upstairs!!!

LinasK....I just have a question about this.

I've read the Linda Arndt deposition and it seemed to me that she had a bunch of Ramsey friends about and was only officer on the scene of what she thought was a kidnapping, and when she asked if anyone had looked for Jon Benet she may of felt that she better stay right where she was in the living room.

John dashes off................finds the body almost right away, carries her upstairs and puts Jon Benet on the floor.

THEN.....Linda Arndt picks up the body and puts her near the Christmas tree.

It seems she got blamed for not following him into the basement.......but did she see him go down there?

I can't quite get the timing on this...........
It seems to me that because she had made the statement that when John Ramsey came back up the stairs with Jon Benet in his arms.........she 'Knew' from her training that he was the killer"...........and obviously she feel's that police 'didn't' want her to say that!

Am I right or wrong so far!
xxxxxxxxo
mama

[Cassata11]

Here is the audio of Steve Thomas' KHOW interview on the Caplis Show:


http://dimwit.byethost5.com/steve%20short.mp3


This should launch in your audio player. If not, copy/paste the url into your Windows Media player by doing this:

Open Media Player
Click on FILE
Click on OPEN URL
Paste URL into the box, and hit OK
Presto.


The file was reduced from 12 megs, to about 2.5 megs. The sound quality is reduced, but I think acceptable.

IF anyone needs a smaller file, I will do that upon request.

Enjoy!!!


...YumYum
Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I appreciate you sending that link to the file you uploaded for us. What a great interview!

Cassata

[Camper]

IF IF IF you want to hear a better interview with a person that the R's pitched under the bus, go to todays Peter Boyles audio radio program KHOW.com

He had Jeff Merrick on the program, hear his personal story of WHAT happened to him and HOW the ransom note covers 'him' in it.

Mr. Merrick worked for Access Graphics and blew the whistle on some unethical things that were happening within Access Graphics, and he was - he was welllllllllll just go listen guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

.

[Toltec]

Speaking of dashing....John flees the country and leaves his defensless son Burke behind to fend for himself!

What a dad!

[Seeker]

Sorry, Seeker. That's wrong. CBI man said she wrote it, but he couldn't say so in court. Speckin said it wasn't likely that anyone else could have done it, and even her OWN experts couldn't eliminate her. Plus, there's that little matter of the ten experts who say she wrote it.

Incidentally, one of the Ass't DAs at the presser yesterday slipped up and said that the infamous "1-5" scale has been reversed! "5" is actually a match! Can you beat that?
Well from all I've read he must have misspoken. Not one of the handwriting experts consulted has ever said that.

I must be getting old. I don't remember Chet Ubowski saying that about the writing. Do you remember where you saw that? TIA

[Camper]

IF IF IF you want to hear a better interview with a person that the R's pitched under the bus, go to todays Peter Boyles audio radio program KHOW.com

He had Jeff Merrick on the program, hear his personal story of WHAT happened to him and HOW the ransom note covers 'him' in it.

Mr. Merrick worked for Access Graphics and blew the whistle on some unethical things that were happening within Access Graphics, and he was - he was welllllllllll just go listen guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

.



--->>>YOU HAVE to hear Mr. Merricks story, a must!

Here is my link that works for me, BUT I am a registered listener which you have to be to get into Peters stuff, but check it out and see IF it will work for you.

http://www.khow.com/cc-common/podcast/single_podcast.html?podcast=fullshow_boyles.xml

Register and listen it is worth it every day to hear all the inside info on the case. Peter has the governors ear!

.

[LaMer]

--->>>YOU HAVE to hear Mr. Merricks story, a must!
.

Camper, that brings back a lot of memories. Jeeesh, poor Jeff Merrick, he had the R finger pointed at him. How about his idea that maybe because he had been having dinner at Papa J's, he was accused of possibly planning the murder at that time!

Seems he is connecting D Paugh to have been the one putting this together, his being named by JR to the police. Bet somehow, this was put to DP by JR.

I took it Don Paugh was definetly there, but I didn't catch if JR had been there too. He did say it was for a dinner for Access Graphics. HA to be accused of being there planning the murder!

Then for J Douglas to go on TV or was it someone else appearing on TV that said J Douglas told them Merrick was there planning the murder?

JDouglas working for the Ramseys!

(it kept breaking up for me, I'm going to try it later--maybe I need a new computer) :(

He mentions they are 'charming people' we'll yeah, I could see that. Charmed the pants off Lacy, Smit, Douglas---and then again $$$ works!

[sandraladeda]

I picked it up, courtesy of YumYum012 on FFJ at this link:

http://dimwit.byethost5.com/jeff merrick.mp3 (http://dimwit.byethost5.com/jeff%20merrick.mp3)


My favorite part is how he reminds us again and again of the RST lie that the police "only looked at the Ramseys", "zeroed in on the Ramseys, to the exclusion of all other avenues of investigation"...what a bunch of malarkey!!

Listening to this just made me angry all over again, and really see what a calculating scoundrel JR is....I am frustrated that PR got off scot free, and JR will too!! :banghead: :furious: :razz:

[LaMer]

I picked it up, courtesy of YumYum012 on FFJ at this link:

:

Thanks Sandra, it worked for me :)

For the idea of the cops only focusing in on the Ramseys: ;)

TA DA! :clap:

In the five years they followed: Courtesy of Peter Boyles:

5,300 Phone Tips

4,800 letters (I think it was letters)

6,300 interviews

140 possible suspects

Only the Ramsey?????????????????????????

[sandraladeda]

Thanks LaMer, I wished I had written those stats down! Glad you did it for me....:)

[Jimthecarpetguy]

Hey J2! nice to see you over here. But I and some of the real analysts disagree about the match is good for Patsy.

[SuperDave]

"I must be getting old. I don't remember Chet Ubowski saying that about the writing. Do you remember where you saw that? TIA"

Sure do!

http://extras.denverpost.com/news/ram1014k.htm

In it, Ubowski says this:

"This handwriting showed indications that the writer was Patsy Ramsey.'' Ubowski told investigators that the samples she gave "do not suggest the full range of her handwriting.''

On a Fox News report 12/26/2002:

"Many forensic document examiners have given their opinions as to who wrote the note. But the only one to testify before a grand jury in the case was Chet Ubowski, forensic document examiner for the Colorado Bureau of Investigation. Out of 100 people he analyzed for the Boulder Police Department, he found ONLY ONE person whom he thought may have authored the document, Patsy Ramsey. Investigative sources tell Fox News that the disguised letters and bleeding ink from the felt tipped pen used to write the note kept him from 100 percent ID of Mrs. Ramsey."

But, you raise a good point. Let's think this through:

The ransom note has been profiled by the best in the field. Clint Van Zandt, Roger DePue, etc, and they all came up with this:

...A white female
...Age 35-45 years
...Average or slightly above average intellectually.
...A loner and acted alone in murder
...Domineering
...Aggressive and controlling with masculine demeanor.
...overconfident with an air of superiority.
...Neatly groomed, slightly overweight with hair short or frequently tied up.
...High birth order with several siblings; highly educated parents.
...History of bi-polar disorder or other mental illness.
...Drawn to excitement-oriented or thrill seeker hobbies, including books and movies.
...Has experienced stress or crisis in job or relationship, and may have been seen expressing anger prior to murder.
...Has a well established history of drug abuse, Used alcohol and/or drugs before and during the murder with increased use afterwards (fits Patsy perfectly concerning the drug use).
...Stays in touch with investigation

Okay, so that narrows it down. Now, the phraseology, the word usage, the little sayings, the family in-jokes, and all of that say it was either one of the family members or someone very very close to them. That narrows it more.

Let's say, for the sake of argument, this "4 out of 5" ranking for her is legit. Even if it is, everyone else they tested were completely eliminated. Plus, her own mother said it looked like her writing.

Ergo, to paraphrase Holmes: Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however unlikely, must be the truth.

Savvy?

[Camper]

I will give you that PR wrote the note, but I will not put PR at the top of the list for striking her biggest reason for living and getting up every day to play with her toy daugher, dress up just like mommy etc, alive and getting such notorious attention for HER beautiful child.

She did not earn the 118,000 bonus nor drive a company up to large sales volume, her husband did. PR loved 'that child', JonBenet was her 'thing'.

I see PR writing the note to cover for a family member.

Will I live long enough to see 'the' killer kill again, confess or be found out, I donut know.

.

[justbetweenus]

--->>>YOU HAVE to hear Mr. Merricks story, a must!

Here is my link that works for me, BUT I am a registered listener which you have to be to get into Peters stuff, but check it out and see IF it will work for you.

http://www.khow.com/cc-common/podcast/single_podcast.html?podcast=fullshow_boyles.xml

Register and listen it is worth it every day to hear all the inside info on the case. Peter has the governors ear!

.
That was very interesting. Thanks Camper. I'm going back to listen to it again.

[icedtea4me]

I will give you that PR wrote the note, but I will not put PR at the top of the list for striking her biggest reason for living and getting up every day to play with her toy daugher, dress up just like mommy etc, alive and getting such notorious attention for HER beautiful child.But Patsy would no longer be able to do this since JonBenet was now in school full-time.


-Tea

[rashomon]

I will give you that PR wrote the note, but I will not put PR at the top of the list for striking her biggest reason for living and getting up every day to play with her toy daugher, dress up just like mommy etc, alive and getting such notorious attention for HER beautiful child.

She did not earn the 118,000 bonus nor drive a company up to large sales volume, her husband did. PR loved 'that child', JonBenet was her 'thing'.

I see PR writing the note to cover for a family member.

Will I live long enough to see 'the' killer kill again, confess or be found out, I donut know.


But even the most precious toy daughters can make their mothers fly into a rage by pushing their buttons at the wrong time. And before Patsy had realized what she had done (struck JB in a rage so hard that she fell into a coma), it was already too late.
Patsy may have worshipped the ground JB walked on, and still this could have happened imo.