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View Full Version : How I know the Ramseys did it....



calus_3
09-05-2006, 03:27 PM
Yes, I was on the Karr bandwagon....mainly for hope that someone would be charged.

However, there are two facts that point to the Ramseys and only the Ramseys:

1) Their completely bizarre behavior immediately after the ransom note was found. Refusing to give statements, giving statements only after being provided copies of their previous statements on the day of, interviews together. Basically hampering the investigation in ways that they knew would prevent them from being exposed and tripping over themselves.

2) They seem completely happy with the progress of the investigation until and unless someone points the finger at them...then the lawyers start foaming at the mouth. Think....your daughter was killed in an apparent attempted kidnapping.....and the police focus completely on you and only you and bungle the case every way possible. You have police, investigators, and DA's leaving, resigning, getting fired. I would be screaming at the top of my lungs that they weren't looking for anyone but me and that they were incompetent. JR and PR seemed 100% at ease with starting their lives over and never thinking about it again.

John Walsh used his son's death to start up AMW. Polly Klass's dad started the Polly Klass foundation. John and Patsy slinked away to Atlanta/Michigan and if it weren't for people they were suing because they said JR/PR/BR did it, we would have never heard from them again. They were happy as two pigs in a blanket as long as their name wasn't mentioned. That tells me that someone in that house killed her, the Ramseys understand that it was an accident, and that they wish not to see that person prosecuted.

Someone did it in that house...probably a Ramsey and probably an accident....and then the coverup began. The Ramseys steered the ransom note to implicate a certain person and that pointedness (as someone stated, the RN was aimed at the housekeeper) is what doesn't make sense. No one made the connection between the Ramsey's intended scapegoat and the scapegoat....therefore, much of what was written in the RN doesn't make sense.

Cal

JMO8778
09-05-2006, 03:51 PM
I think I read that the housekeeper sued the R's after DOI was published and she saw things written about her in it.She may have made the connection more than anyone else did.I have to wonder if she didn't say anything for fear of being sued herself.

SuperDave
09-06-2006, 01:41 PM
She told ther GJ that Patsy killed JB, JM. Ain't that enough?

UKGuy
09-06-2006, 02:15 PM
The forensic evidence links the Ramseys directly with the deceased as discovered in the wine-cellar. e.g. fibers and prior sexual abuse!


.

Love_Mama
09-06-2006, 02:18 PM
She told ther GJ that Patsy killed JB, JM. Ain't that enough?

Dave, I never heard that. Where can I find that?

Thanks.........

xxxxxxxxxxo
mama

SuperDave
09-06-2006, 02:34 PM
Here you go:

http://www.stewwebb.com/jonbenet_ramsey_murder_investigator_speaks_out.htm

Kim Ii
09-06-2006, 04:10 PM
I just read the entire link posted and, although I can't subscribe to the entire theory (sorry, but some of this is just really out there), I think there is one relevant point that I'm not sure any have made regarding Patsy's behavior and that behavior tied in with some sort of weird religious practice.

I remember reading that Patsy reacted to JonBenet's death very strangely. She actually threw herself on top of JonBonet's body and begged for Jesus to bring back her daughter. Who DOES that? Would most of us react that way if we had been (God forbid) in a similar type situation? I know I wouldn't...

BOTH parents were behaving strangely that day, after JonBenet was found. But in reviewing Patsy's behavior especially, it doesn't take too much to then go from that point to accepting that JUST maybe, Patsy was capable of a lot more than just bending over her dead daughter's body and asking Jesus to bring back her daughter...

Kim Ii
09-06-2006, 04:13 PM
...that being said, I have heard of these sexual perversion rings being centered (some of them, if this is true) in Boulder and in other parts of Colorado. I just can't wrap myself around how weird some of these practices are, if these things are true. But if Webb's theory is correct (and just 'how' would he know)...how awful and horrifying is that.

julianne
09-06-2006, 04:39 PM
Here you go:

http://www.stewwebb.com/jonbenet_ramsey_murder_investigator_speaks_out.htm
SuperDave, please tell me you're not using that to gain information on this case???

JMO8778
09-06-2006, 04:45 PM
She told ther GJ that Patsy killed JB, JM. Ain't that enough?I hadn't ever heard that,either.But thx for the link.
Some of that is kinda far out there,however,I don't have a problem thinking there might be or have been a pedo. ring ,and JR used JB in it somehow,for whatever reason or reasons.
With the way JB was dressed and made-up so sexually for the pageants,I can't help but think it was done for someone or for some group,moreso than for just the pageant competition itself.

JMO

olive
09-06-2006, 04:48 PM
Here you go:

http://www.stewwebb.com/jonbenet_ramsey_murder_investigator_speaks_out.htm
That is probably the strangest crap I've ever read in my life. Who wrote that?

Kim Ii
09-06-2006, 05:10 PM
This guy, Webb, is weird. Who IS he? He says he lived just down the street from the Ramseys...REALLY. Can he back that up? And just HOW does he know all this stuff he's writing...does he have his own inside door into the DA's office in Boulder...is he friendly with some, if any, of the Detectives working on this case?

This guy's creepy...not sure what to believe. Otoh..I really like, admire and respect Steve Thomas. He's a great Detective and he's NORMAL. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

SleuthingSleuth
09-06-2006, 05:14 PM
Ah, well, that link kinda just collapses towards the end into the typical "MK-ULTRA conspiracy sex ring" stories I've heard of before. Whenever I hear the name Cathy O'Brian I just tend to roll my eyes.

Not everything in that link is off the meter though.

inquiringmindz
09-06-2006, 05:21 PM
Here you go:

http://www.stewwebb.com/jonbenet_ramsey_murder_investigator_speaks_out.htm :waitasec: I don't know what to think about this. Interesting.

Jolynna
09-06-2006, 05:37 PM
The housekeeper before Hoffman did not think a stranger killed JonBenet.

From Linda Wilcox's 1998 interview:



LINDA WILCOX: My reaction might have been a little bit different. I was out of state. I had attended my grandmother's funeral that very afternoon. I was staying at my mom's home out of state. My honey, from back here, called me, on the phone. He doesn't keep up with my personal business life and he thought I still worked for them. Because he called and said, 'When do you work for the Ramseys?' I said, 'The Ramseys?' and he said, 'Yeah, John and Patsy.' And I said, 'I haven't been there in a year and a half.' And he said, well someone has murdered JonBenet and it was just instant shock. Just at that moment, my mother had turned on the television, she has cable, and her local news came on and they showed the picture of the house. And I'm like, Oh my God, something is really bad and I said, 'Do they know who did it?' and he said, "well no" and was telling me a bit of what he knew. This was on the 27th. Because that's when he got ahold of me. I was travelling on the 26th and he (couldn't understand). My initial reaction was, a stranger didn't kill that child.



LINDA WILCOX: Gut feeling more than anything. But even now, more than then, I would (something) on everything I have that a stranger did not kill JonBenet. The lay of the house doesn't...it would be very difficult. Possibly, there are people who are professional. But then they would have done a professional job. Lots of little things contribute to my belief. Someone who didn't know that house, really well, couldn't have done what they done (sic) without being noticed. It's not possible. It is physically impossible. You had to know little things. Like for example, you walk in the room and hit the switch, the light doesn't come on. See, cause when the room was redone, they put in a ceiling fan, one of the metal ones, without a light kit on it. The only light in her room was the lamp between the two beds. You have to physically walk over and turn it on. It isn't run by the switch. The switch was meant to run the overhead ceiling light which was removed to install the ceiling fan.

aussiesheila
09-06-2006, 05:49 PM
Here you go:

http://www.stewwebb.com/jonbenet_ramsey_murder_investigator_speaks_out.htm Hi SuperDave,

this is the segment that interests me -

"Both Denver and Boulder, Colorado, are major Satanic centers whose activities have, at various times been under investigation by Jefferson and Denver county authorities as well as the FBI and others. A witness of these activities came fourth and gave testimony of two crack babies that were first taken from their parents and given to foster parents. Later they were taken from the foster parents by Denver SOCIAL SERVICES after the husband was murdered in very strange circumstances and were given to a single woman who had turned up out of nowhere after the murder and offered to be a nanny to the children. The witness claims watching the ritual sacrifice of both babies on Halloween and the Ramsey's, DA Hunter, Lt. Governor Gail Shoettler's and several others 'very high up' in Colorado politics, linked to the Governor's office, being present as well. The Satanic ring centered in Denver connects into Boulder, Colorado..."

I have never heard of any of this and would like to know just how factual it all is. There appear to be many inaccuracies in the rest of the article, so it does make me suspect that this bit is all hype as well. Nevertheless, if it is true, or even partially true, it is very, very interesting.

(And thanks for the link)

ETA: and you've just gotten me addicted to the Stew Webb and Tom Heneghan website. Thanks a lot Dave....

magnolia
09-06-2006, 05:55 PM
She told ther GJ that Patsy killed JB, JM. Ain't that enough?Do you have a link to a statement made by the house-keeper, herself,that she told GJ that Patsy killed JonBenet? If not, no, the information is not enough.

Jolynna
09-06-2006, 06:10 PM
PB - Have you read the Newsweek piece?

LHP - No.

PB - At the home of John and Barbara Fernie, Patsy stood up and offered condolences... Let me read what NW has to say about you. They had brought several thick books about crime-scene photos, they showed her a pic of JBR's thermal blanket, it had stains on it, they showed her a pic of JBR's bed, looking at the comforter, the bed looked barely disturbed

LHP - That was my feeling, that the blanket was in the dryer. I think the blanket wasn't on her bed that night. I don't think a stranger would know where the blanket was. the R's didn't even have a hamper, they just left clothes lying around.

PB - Only you and PR knew it was in there. How do you feel about how the R's are trying to put the blame on you?

LHP - It hurts a lot.

PB - YOu were extremely loyal to her.

LHP - I don't believe the intruder theory at all. That door they're talking about was like that for months.

PB - Haddon was either uninformed or was lying to protect his client.

LHP - That door was like that for months before JBR was murdered.

PB - What has changed in your mind in the last 28 months.

LHP - The R's have lied about numerous things. They've lied about the door, they lied about the knife, they lied about the Swiss army knife. I put in the cupboard myself.

PB - What do you know about bed-wetting?

PB - How did they treat bedwetting?

LHP - It didn't come up much, but every time I came in the sheets were already off the bed.

PB - How was PR dealing with it, was she getting more frustrated?

LHP - There's no way JR could be a father and not know about it.

PB - You know at least of three lies. Why would the R's come out with the pry marks as evidence of an intruder. They knew about the Swiss army knife. People need to hear this, particularly the people who believe, for whatever the hell reason, well I don't know why they believe it...

LHP - I asked PR for a loan. I think she must have, because the police asked me about it.

PBn - She says you owe her money.

LHP - She owes ME money.

PB - I asked her about the front door. PR told me all the doors were locked. They also attempted to make your husband a suspect as well.

LHP - He had only been in the house four times. One time to fix closet doors, and one time to put up Christmas lights. Everybody who knows us knows we didn't kill JBR. I have never hurt a child and never would. I loved the whole family.

PB - What is Burke like?

LHP - He's a real quiet little boy.

PB - What have you come away with in this?

LHP - We've been hurt. I loved Patsy so much, I would have done anything for her.

PB - You know she knows you didn't do this. She's trying to set somebody up. This doesn't have anything to do with you, and she must be going through her own personal hell.

LHP - I really cared about her. (crying) I don't believe the blanket was on the bed. There were only two people who knew...

Jolynna
09-06-2006, 06:20 PM
Do you have a link to a statement made by the house-keeper, herself,that she told GJ that Patsy killed JonBenet? If not, no, the information is not enough.Done.

The statements in post 18 are from the housekeeper, herself.

Nuisanceposter
09-06-2006, 06:53 PM
Chapter one of LHP's book

http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=3952

poco
09-06-2006, 07:54 PM
Here you go:

http://www.stewwebb.com/jonbenet_ramsey_murder_investigator_speaks_out.htm

What's a JG or a GJ or whatever and give me a hint as to where I might find this information in the above link - kinda long!!!!!

Jolynna
09-06-2006, 08:04 PM
Poco,

GJ = Grand Jury

aspidistra
09-06-2006, 09:34 PM
I just read the entire link posted and, although I can't subscribe to the entire theory (sorry, but some of this is just really out there), I think there is one relevant point that I'm not sure any have made regarding Patsy's behavior and that behavior tied in with some sort of weird religious practice.

I remember reading that Patsy reacted to JonBenet's death very strangely. She actually threw herself on top of JonBonet's body and begged for Jesus to bring back her daughter. Who DOES that? Would most of us react that way if we had been (God forbid) in a similar type situation? I know I wouldn't...

BOTH parents were behaving strangely that day, after JonBenet was found. But in reviewing Patsy's behavior especially, it doesn't take too much to then go from that point to accepting that JUST maybe, Patsy was capable of a lot more than just bending over her dead daughter's body and asking Jesus to bring back her daughter...I am not that religious that I would beg Jesus to raise someone from the dead. I am too scientific to believe it could happen. But when I found my mother dead in her hospital bed (no one bothered to call me) I threw myself on her and kissed her and cried and washed her body and rearranged her bedding, which the nurses had not bothered to do. I am sure most women would. I had cared for her in her last year as i would care for a baby. She was in a coma and helpless. I had a motherly and daughterly instinct at once because of that. Patsy's reaction does not seem out of place or strange to me in the least.

I never judge other peoples' reactions to death of their loved ones. My brother was with me and he stood in the doorway like a stone. He did not recognize that she was dead. (reminds me of how John Ramsey said he did not know if JBR was dead when her found her. A woman would have known instantly).

Jolynna
09-06-2006, 11:27 PM
Another reason to know that Patsy did it was pointed out by Omega on the "Parents on this Forum..." thread:



all of a sudden she started typing Burke's "friday files" or whatever they were called, even though she had handwritten them every time before the murder.

narlacat
09-06-2006, 11:30 PM
I am not that religious that I would beg Jesus to raise someone from the dead. I am too scientific to believe it could happen. But when I found my mother dead in her hospital bed (no one bothered to call me) I threw myself on her and kissed her and cried and washed her body and rearranged her bedding, which the nurses had not bothered to do. I am sure most women would. I had cared for her in her last year as i would care for a baby. She was in a coma and helpless. I had a motherly and daughterly instinct at once because of that. Patsy's reaction does not seem out of place or strange to me in the least.

I never judge other peoples' reactions to death of their loved ones. My brother was with me and he stood in the doorway like a stone. He did not recognize that she was dead. (reminds me of how John Ramsey said he did not know if JBR was dead when her found her. A woman would have known instantly).Maybe PR's reaction on finding her daughter's body was not out of place or strange but I'd like to know why all the wailing and all the hysterics when the body was found but no wailing and hysterics when being told she had to leave the house and her precious baby.
She just upped and walked out...just like that.

There's no way JR didn't know his daughter was dead, she was stiff fgs!

SallyLu
09-07-2006, 12:25 AM
SuperDave, I always veer straight to your posts but on this one I have questions - which could amount to my own ignorance.



http://www.stewwebb.com/jonbenet_ramsey_murder_investigator_speaks_out.htm

Does DNA show your age group?

olive
09-07-2006, 09:32 AM
Chapter one of LHP's book

http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=3952
This should include a warning that the graphic discriptions and style of writing may make one sick. It did me.

Brefie
09-07-2006, 09:47 AM
Another reason to know that Patsy did it was pointed out by Omega on the "Parents on this Forum..." thread:

Although I believe Patsy wrote the note, if I were in her position, but innocent (of course), I would do the same thing. I really don't think that shows / proves anything.

An innocent person, by that time, would do anything to stop the tabs getting their hands on ANYTHING, including handwriting samples.

Brefie
09-07-2006, 09:48 AM
This should include a warning that the graphic discriptions and style of writing may make one sick. It did me.

Quite apart from the graphic nature, this is writing at it's worst.

cappuccina
09-07-2006, 09:52 AM
...probably right on target...

Nuisanceposter
09-07-2006, 10:26 AM
Lol. Sorry for failing to warn, I forgot about the detail that may offend. I was just linking that in so that people could hear what LHP thought in her own words.

julianne
09-07-2006, 10:41 AM
...probably right on target...
Except that in the spirit of writing a book and hoping to make as much cash as you possibly can out of it, the area where one's target begins and ends tends to become much larger.

Especially when you're not getting paid to clean up someone's house anymore.

IMO, of course.

olive
09-07-2006, 11:25 AM
whether it is a work of fiction for cash or some inside scoop, we'll never really know.

However, I do know that after the graphic descriptions of the Ramsey's sex life, I was feeling incredibly sorry for Patsy. All the way up to the point where she takes JB into the bathroom and whacks her with a flashlight in the crotch.

:sick:

julianne
09-07-2006, 11:41 AM
whether it is a work of fiction for cash or some inside scoop, we'll never really know.

However, I do know that after the graphic descriptions of the Ramsey's sex life, I was feeling incredibly sorry for Patsy. All the way up to the point where she takes JB into the bathroom and whacks her with a flashlight in the crotch.

:sick:
That's just it, though, Olive---the housekeeper wasn't there that night to say that Patsy hit JonBenet in the crotch with a flashlight. She wasn't there, so we KNOW it's not an inside scoop. Correct me if I'm wrong, but was there any evidence that JonBenet had been forcefully hit in the groin with anything--let alone a flashlight?

As gruesome as it sounds, what's even more gruesome to me is that this woman completely invented this story of what happened that night. I understand it is her opinion, but it's pretty disgusting to think up something like that--especially when the evidence doesn't support it.

olive
09-07-2006, 11:45 AM
agreed.

I was commenting on the disgusting nature of the story.

julianne
09-07-2006, 11:48 AM
agreed.

I was commenting on the disgusting nature of the story.
I hear ya, Olive. It was disgusting for sure.

Jolynna
09-07-2006, 01:12 PM
Except that in the spirit of writing a book and hoping to make as much cash as you possibly can out of it, the area where one's target begins and ends tends to become much larger.

Especially when you're not getting paid to clean up someone's house anymore.

What about the previous housekeeper?

She said a lot of the same things as Hoffman-Pugh and didn't write a book.

Jolynna
09-07-2006, 01:18 PM
I agree with everyone's assessment of the book. It was horrible and takes away the housekeeper's credibility.

But, to this day, no one has disputed her information about the blanket and Burke's knife.

I also believe the evidence she gave about the family that was collaborated by the previous maid.

SuperDave
09-07-2006, 01:42 PM
"SuperDave, please tell me you're not using that to gain information on this case???"

people ask, I provide. Doesn't mean I accept it.

"ETA: and you've just gotten me addicted to the Stew Webb and Tom Heneghan website. Thanks a lot Dave...."

Isn't it weird what you can dig up?

"Do you have a link to a statement made by the house-keeper, herself,that she told GJ that Patsy killed JonBenet? If not, no, the information is not enough."

Well, the other folks here have beaten me too it!

"Does DNA show your age group?"

Pretty sure it doesn't!

"Correct me if I'm wrong, but was there any evidence that JonBenet had been forcefully hit in the groin with anything--let alone a flashlight?"

The person to ask would be Richard Krugman. He called this "textbook toilet rage."

jubie
09-07-2006, 02:13 PM
One of my own children has had bedwetting issues and the last thing I would do was 'punish' her. I've always gone out of my way to make sure she understands it's not her fault and it will stop etc etc.

It makes me so mad that JonBenet was treated this way even before her tragic death. :furious:

Although I could never harm our little girl (or our son) I do understand that people can have dark sides and what makes Patsy so special that she can't have possibly have done this?

SuperDave,

I've enjoyed your posts. Neat format.


Jubie

SuperDave
09-07-2006, 02:36 PM
Thanks.

Ivy2
09-07-2006, 02:39 PM
One of my own children has had bedwetting issues and the last thing I would do was 'punish' her. I've always gone out of my way to make sure she understands it's not her fault and it will stop etc etc.

It makes me so mad that JonBenet was treated this way even before her tragic death. :furious:

Although I could never harm our little girl (or our son) I do understand that people can have dark sides and what makes Patsy so special that she can't have possibly have done this?

Jubie
Jubie,

I don't know why I'm so chatty today. I just posted another nephew story on another thread but you won't believe the irony in this one...

Two years ago most of my family was at my Mom's for Christmas. I couldn't sleep and got up and wandered in the den to watch TV. One of those JonBenet specials was on at like 2:00am (I guess because of the Christmas season) so of course I had to watch it. I dozed off and suddenly awoke to find my nephew standing beside me on the couch. I thought he just couldn't sleep either and pulled him in to curl up with me. Well, when he crawled in I realized he was soaking wet. He had wet the bed. I felt so sorry for him! He was cold. I told him not to worry and went and found his pull-ups and some fresh shorts and he went on back to sleep. I really thought about JonBenet that night. Bless their little hearts!

Maybe whether this had anything to do with JonBenet's death or not, it has made people more aware of how an otherwise loving parent or caretaker can lose it if we aren't careful.

jubie
09-07-2006, 02:57 PM
SP, You're welcome. ;)


Ivy,

Welcome to Websleuths and that sure is an ironic thing to happen the way it did. BTW I'm glad you're nephew was found safe, I'm sure it was awful while you all searched for him.


Jubie

SuperDave
09-08-2006, 01:03 PM
"Although I could never harm our little girl (or our son) I do understand that people can have dark sides and what makes Patsy so special that she can't have possibly have done this?"

Not a damn thing. A lot of people can't fathom the dark side. But I've spent a lot of time digging around the dark areas of the soul, especially my own. My faith in man is at an all time low.