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PolkSaladAnnie
12-12-2006, 03:56 AM
OK. I'm starting a new thread on the dog; most of us are animal lovers and there are questons here. Some great thoughts were posted toward the end of the last MC Thread part 5.... those would be great brought over here.

First up, I WISH we knew the dog's name! We've seen a pic of an older black Lab (or cross Lab) in pics and this hound was so loved, he actually carried M&J's wedding bands down the aisle.

We know the dog was at the house when MF arrived as she told the 911 op "the dog was freaking out". But, MF only mentioned Cassie's bloody footprints, not the dog's footprints in and around the crime-scene.

Was the dog locked in another room, or locked outside? The dog would have been freaking out if he could not reach MY or Cassie and sensed danger - was probably hungry... and of course, heard MF arrive and barked for attention.

My view, although it's a bit of a scraggly view based on what we know: if the dog was shut away in another room then there are ominous shades of Chris Porco in this crime. This was no random crime. The perp knew MY Cassie and the dog.

Chris Porco shut the much loved family pet, Barrister, in the basement before plucking an axe and butchering his parents. This demonstrated CARE, CONCERN & PROTECTION FROM THE CRIME by someone who knew the dog. Aside from Porco, McKenzie was the much loved family pet and he too, played a key role in Laci's demise

Dogs are known to lick wounded or ill companions, from humans through their own young. Keeping the dog away from MY stopped him from licking her, too, a natural animal instinct - ESPECIALLY as this was a devoted and much loved family pet - they thought the world of and he was an integral part of the family.

So .... maybe we'll be able to 'tell' something, too, regarding the way he was treated. So, aside from where he was in the house, here are some other questions that may assist:

WHO took him immediately after the murder?

WHERE is he now?

WHAT is his name (if indeed the dog is male).

Pack_Fan kindly offered to investigate a lil further - but I'm not putting pressure on you, PF ;)..)

pack_fan
12-12-2006, 04:15 AM
No info to report on the dog......

I know, I know, pitiful excuse for a sleuth, huh?

Samiya
12-12-2006, 04:16 AM
I've brought my post over and with it is raisingcharlie's quoted post that I replied to, for convenience :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by raisincharlie
Panthera

It is good to see you !

I've stewed over the dog issue and I kinda think the dog was indeed "put" somewhere. There are so many rumors going on but there were some posters, supposedly insiders, who said the dog often slept in Cassidy's room. Like you I believe that dog would have gone a bit ballistic over a stranger coming in the house if it were in Cassidy's room and a stranger passed by.

We know that even if Cassidy's door was shut - somehow it got opened because Cassidy was found walking in the house. Meredith in the 911 call references the dog was freaking out but she mentions only the baby's foot prints through the house. In my mind, if the dog was loose in the house, there would have been paw prints as well I think. I also think Meredith would have mentioned this when talking about the dog. Why would the dog be freaking out - it knew Meredith ? So I believe where ever the dog was when Meredith arrived is a clue to the puzzle.

I think Cassidy's bedroom door was open for the simple fact, the baby did not leave the house - either she did not know how to open doors, could not open doors, or the doors leading out of the house were locked - interesting in and of itself IMO.

I agree with you Charlie, no paw prints mentioned.

I think Meredith would've said to Brent if the dog was locked in the bathroom, laundry, den or where ever (ie; the dog was freaking out in the **** when I got here), so I tend to think the dog was outside freaking out at the back door.

The first thought I had that (for me) put the dog outside is that I don't know any dog that wouldn't be tempted by the overpowering smell of a 'kill' (sorry about the awful reference http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/smilies/eek.gif but I can't think of another word) and be able to control itself and not lap up blood.

ETA: Whether put out side by Michelle or the murderer....But if had been in the house it would have been barking....unless it knew the perp.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Samiya
12-12-2006, 04:22 AM
No info to report on the dog......

I know, I know, pitiful excuse for a sleuth, huh?
No, lol. I think you're pretty cool actually :)

PolkSaladAnnie
12-12-2006, 05:30 AM
No info to report on the dog......

I know, I know, pitiful excuse for a sleuth, huh?

LOL !!!! Love yah, Pack... thanks for trying ... am sure we'll build up as we go along..

Polk :)

PolkSaladAnnie
12-12-2006, 05:35 AM
I've brought my post over and with it is raisingcharlie's quoted post that I replied to, for convenience :)

snipped

ETA: Whether put out side by Michelle or the murderer....But if had been in the house it would have been barking....unless it knew the perp.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Bril, Sami! These were good thoughts, glad they have their own 'kennel' now, LOL!

OK, so your thoughts to charlie ... RC ... being you felt maybe the dog was locked or left outside? Maybe ... as MF said "The dog was really freaking out when I got here.."

Wonder if the dog was allowed to sleep, wander and interact indoors? I Always have my dogs very familiar and comfy indoors - none have ever jumped on furniture and I've trained my darling Spaniel to lie on her own mats in different rooms - I love her with me!

Samiya
12-12-2006, 06:13 AM
Bril, Sami! These were good thoughts, glad they have their own 'kennel' now, LOL!

OK, so your thoughts to charlie ... RC ... being you felt maybe the dog was locked or left outside? Maybe ... as MF said "The dog was really freaking out when I got here.."

Wonder if the dog was allowed to sleep, wander and interact indoors? I Always have my dogs very familiar and comfy indoors - none have ever jumped on furniture and I've trained my darling Spaniel to lie on her own mats in different rooms - I love her with me!
Did anyone keep that aerial view photo of the house? If so can you look and see possibilities for a kennel or even a small back porch attached to the house. I'll go look at the outline map on the erality website.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Honestly....I want the builders blueprints to that house!.

I can work out 4 rooms minimum upstairs (not sure the layout though) Main Bedroom (which would usually be at the front side of house), Cassidy's room (usually at back of house), den (probably over garage) and bathroom.

Downstairs probably.... lounge, garage, kitchen, another bathroom or just toilet, and laundry.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

PolkSaladAnnie
12-12-2006, 06:27 AM
Hmmmm. Gosh, Sami, have no clue as to the blueprints, lollll! Again, I am going with the dog being locked/shut away inside somewhere - and freaking out for being closed in for so long!

This say be ANOTHER reason JY concocted that silly fax story, USED Michelle Money and lured Meredith into his deadly plot to get over there: to calm, placate, feed and rescue the survivors!

Oh lord! If ONLY McKenzie, Barrister and Young-Dog-With-No-Name ... could talk!

Mygirlsadie
12-12-2006, 06:29 AM
Wouldnt the family dog attack if it were someone the dog did not know and it was hurting its' mommy? I have a German Shepherd and she is a sweetheart but if someone we don't know comes to the door my girl is right next to me standing at attention kinda like feeling out the situation. I would think that if someone tried to do something to me she would most definately attack.

PolkSaladAnnie
12-12-2006, 06:29 AM
psssst: c'mon Floh ... get barking-mad in here, lol ...

PolkSaladAnnie
12-12-2006, 06:32 AM
Wouldnt the family dog attack if it were someone the dog did not know and it was hurting its' mommy? I have a German Shepherd and she is a sweetheart but if someone we don't know comes to the door my girl is right next to me standing at attention kinda like feeling out the situation. I would think that if someone tried to do something to me she would most definately attack.

Couldn't agree with you more mygirlsadie ... which indicates that when the NON-random perp walked in, the dog was "ok" with it. Any barking would have got MY up. If the dog was 'freaking" she may have even dialled 911, who knows!? But the dogs in my lifetime would definitely have protected me to the hilt - and not been quiet about it...

Bee Charmer
12-12-2006, 08:39 AM
Bril, Sami! These were good thoughts, glad they have their own 'kennel' now, LOL!

OK, so your thoughts to charlie ... RC ... being you felt maybe the dog was locked or left outside? Maybe ... as MF said "The dog was really freaking out when I got here.."

Wonder if the dog was allowed to sleep, wander and interact indoors? I Always have my dogs very familiar and comfy indoors - none have ever jumped on furniture and I've trained my darling Spaniel to lie on her own mats in different rooms - I love her with me!
That house is huge. I bet we're going to learn that this family
dog was put into another room, with the door closed. The freaking out that Meredith talks about, was that poor dog scratching at the door and going crazy, knowing something was happening to part of it's family. Poor pooch. IMO.

Mygirlsadie
12-12-2006, 08:45 AM
I know..thats exactly what I am wondering about!!! The dog knew the perp. :( I feel pretty strongly about that.




Couldn't agree with you more mygirlsadie ... which indicates that when the NON-random perp walked in, the dog was "ok" with it. Any barking would have got MY up. If the dog was 'freaking" she may have even dialled 911, who knows!? But the dogs in my lifetime would definitely have protected me to the hilt - and not been quiet about it...

PolkSaladAnnie
12-12-2006, 09:33 AM
That house is huge. I bet we're going to learn that this family
dog was put into another room, with the door closed. The freaking out that Meredith talks about, was that poor dog scratching at the door and going crazy, knowing something was happening to part of it's family. Poor pooch. IMO.

Oh Bee, and mygirlsadie... I believe in both of your thoughts. I go limp and floppy when it comes to animals. charlie, I know YOU can count for this with your horses .... and I've not spent a day since I was about 7 w/out a dog in my life - (lol... and 8 darling stray cats outside as I type) and couldn't imagine a life w/out a wonderful hound. I'm crazeee over animals, perhps more so as God decided to give me Child-Bearing Lips and not child bearing hips ....which is why I am so obessed wth this thread AND THE DETAILS. WHERE was the dog right after the crime ... where is he/she now?

Animals' behaviour tells us SO much more than 'the front of it' ... and I am sure that if we know this family pet was indeed locked up - or purposely 'cut off' .... then there's NO doubting his/her anxiety; and no doubting LE's conclusion this was NO RANDOM CRIME..

PolkSaladAnnie
12-12-2006, 09:37 AM
I know..thats exactly what I am wondering about!!! The dog knew the perp. :( I feel pretty strongly about that.

INDEED-y. MGS: He/she (pet) had to know the perp. And I believe the dog was steered away ... as the perp needed the pet to "get out' of the way, but still looked after and/or safe ....

The dogs actions are equally important... IMO

again: JMHO ....

close_enough
12-12-2006, 10:31 AM
That house is huge. I bet we're going to learn that this family
dog was put into another room, with the door closed. The freaking out that Meredith talks about, was that poor dog scratching at the door and going crazy, knowing something was happening to part of it's family. Poor pooch. IMO.

i still keep thinking of the rumor that dog may have been kicked/hit.....IF this rumor is true, i'd bet that the dog was out & about in the house at some point during the murder, THEN "put away" in another room....

raisincharlie
12-12-2006, 11:02 AM
One thing about this dog - LE will know exactly how it reacted to their entry to the Young home - this reaction may have been the most telling part of the dog story. This reaction may also have figured into the calculated response of "not a random crime".


LE 101 - insure the perp is not in the residence
- insure that medical attention is obtained for all present, if necessary
I have seen this first hand to include animals.
and so forth from there.

JMO

ETA - thinking on it - I think the chances of the dog being locked outside the home are slim - the neighbors would have definitely heard it "freaking out" long before Meredith arrived.

close_enough
12-12-2006, 11:05 AM
One thing about this dog - LE will know exactly how it reacted to their entry to the Young home - this reaction may have been the most telling part of the dog story. This reaction may also have figured into the calculated response of "not a random crime".


LE 101 - insure the perp is not in the residence
- insure that medical attention is obtained for all present, if necessary
I have seen this first hand to include animals.
and so forth from there.

JMO

interesting....then i'd say we'll hear if the poor dog had really been kicked/hit..

PolkSaladAnnie
12-12-2006, 11:24 AM
close - i personally believe the "sore head and sore side" was a s-t-r-e-t-c-h-e-d story by the insiders. IFFFFF that 'rumour' was passed on, then WHOMSOEVER took the dog immed after the crime, fabricated or added it. My guess is JY's family played this one out to friends. The dog was FINE, other that being locked up or out of his/her usual paddling ground. Wanted to 'get out' of it's enclosure, heard Meredith - went crazy to attract attention.

Ooo=er ... JMHO, love yah hon ... just thinking aloud. As a NO RANDOM PERP, the killer KNEW the dog; hushed the dog; hid the dog; shut the dog out from the area.... JMHO hon :blowkiss:

close_enough
12-12-2006, 11:36 AM
close - i personally believe the "sore head and sore side" was a s-t-r-e-t-c-h-e-d story by the insiders. IFFFFF that 'rumour' was passed on, then WHOMSOEVER took the dog immed after the crime, fabricated or added it. My guess is JY's family played this one out to friends. The dog was FINE, other that being locked up or out of his/her usual paddling ground. Wanted to 'get out' of it's enclosure, heard Meredith - went crazy to attract attention.

Ooo=er ... JMHO, love yah hon ... just thinking aloud. As a NO RANDOM PERP, the killer KNEW the dog; hushed the dog; hid the dog; shut the dog out from the area.... JMHO hon :blowkiss:

:blowkiss: back atcha Polk....

i know we've read that JY 'rescued' this dog & took it home, & apparently loved the dog, but in a case like this, i wouldn't put it past him to kick the poor thing, if he got in the way.....adrenalin (sp?) pumpin, trying to hurry & get the 'deed' done.....you're probably right though.....

PolkSaladAnnie
12-12-2006, 12:12 PM
:blowkiss: back atcha Polk....

i know we've read that JY 'rescued' this dog & took it home, & apparently loved the dog, but in a case like this, i wouldn't put it past him to kick the poor thing, if he got in the way.....adrenalin (sp?) pumpin, trying to hurry & get the 'deed' done.....you're probably right though.....

Agree with you hon, specially if he could conduct illicit AFFAIRS behind his wifes back, let alone bludgeon her and his baby son to death! DEFIES LOGIC! He could kick his wife in the teeth with those WOMEN ... so he could very well kick the dog. The man is beyond redemption. THE ONLY thing is ... the dog would not sue for half the house, half his pay-packet in child support and half their joint estate. So? he might stroke said non-suit doggy.... (just like cucmubers, eh??? :silenced:

<<<She says, taking a quick Bad-Kramer wink as she retreats to back of stage... ;)......">>>

And yeah, close... right: we'll hear the Jasonites lament at length in denial as to what a "wonderful, goofy, funny, caring, grieving "loving-couple" and great son/brother he was' .... :sick: Bleck ... OJ, Scott, Mark, Perry : I HEAR YAH!!!

Jade
12-12-2006, 02:53 PM
Wouldnt the family dog attack if it were someone the dog did not know and it was hurting its' mommy? I have a German Shepherd and she is a sweetheart but if someone we don't know comes to the door my girl is right next to me standing at attention kinda like feeling out the situation. I would think that if someone tried to do something to me she would most definately attack.

I have a sweet German Shepherd that lives in the house and she greats everyone with her ball in her mouth assuming they are there to play. I admit I envision her turning into a killer if her family is threatened but would she know how to attack having had no experience? The Groens had dogs; Tara Grinstead had a Shepherd, as did the Horowitz. Although all in pens outside I think – powerless to help. The Lunsfords had a small dog that should have been counted on to do some yapping…. In cases like Nicole Brown, Peterson and Porco the dogs knew the murderers but there are these cases where the dogs were unable or didn’t protect/alert their people.
We have always assumed our dog would be a protection to my daughter as she walked her but had been reading that pets not trained in protection might not be consistent in their reaction. DH tried to recruit a friend unknown to the dog to conduct an experiment but the friend declined. The dog did make an unexpected snap at the hand of a neighborhood kid who tried to pet her while on a walk so I guess she might be of help in an attack. We do know that we are in fact safe from wandering cats – dog will not chase or even bark just a growl to let us know!
Always heartbreaking to hear of the pets- seems like there was a case with a cat that was in the home and would have witnessed all…..

PolkSaladAnnie
12-12-2006, 03:47 PM
I have a sweet German Shepherd that lives in the house and she greats everyone with her ball in her mouth assuming they are there to play. I admit I envision her turning into a killer if her family is threatened but would she know how to attack having had no experience? The Groens had dogs; Tara Grinstead had a Shepherd, as did the Horowitz. Although all in pens outside I think – powerless to help. The Lunsfords had a small dog that should have been counted on to do some yapping…. In cases like Nicole Brown, Peterson and Porco the dogs knew the murderers but there are these cases where the dogs were unable or didn’t protect/alert their people.
We have always assumed our dog would be a protection to my daughter as she walked her but had been reading that pets not trained in protection might not be consistent in their reaction. DH tried to recruit a friend unknown to the dog to conduct an experiment but the friend declined. The dog did make an unexpected snap at the hand of a neighborhood kid who tried to pet her while on a walk so I guess she might be of help in an attack. We do know that we are in fact safe from wandering cats – dog will not chase or even bark just a growl to let us know!
Always heartbreaking to hear of the pets- seems like there was a case with a cat that was in the home and would have witnessed all…..

Oh... wow ... We are so in-synch with out pets Jade, that we can see "stories" in their eyes. There is no such thing as a bad pet.... there are bad owners. Animals are wonderful creatures and are able to endure the impossible. How to find out? You don't need to own one ... you just need to love one...

MassComm
01-19-2007, 09:40 PM
Just a thought. With a young daughter in the house and the bedrooms supposedly upstairs, maybe there was a child-gate on the stairs (most people with 2 year olds put up gates on the stairs), thus the dog couldn't go upstairs and track the blood, but the daughter was already upstairs?

close_enough
01-19-2007, 11:29 PM
Just a thought. With a young daughter in the house and the bedrooms supposedly upstairs, maybe there was a child-gate on the stairs (most people with 2 year olds put up gates on the stairs), thus the dog couldn't go upstairs and track the blood, but the daughter was already upstairs?

hmmmm, interesting.....we've only heard about the dog's prints being in the house....nothing about whether they were found upstairs or just in the downstairs area...

from what i've gathered, the bedrooms were upstairs & so was the home 'office'....

jilly
01-19-2007, 11:52 PM
Well, LE hasn't said anything about footprints but if you want to believe People Mag, the article starts out "Tiny footprints, made of blood were everywhere." So if that's the case then no gate.

Just wondering - Didn't Meredith make some reference to this as well in the 911 call?

raisincharlie
01-19-2007, 11:56 PM
Well, LE hasn't said anything about footprints but if you want to believe People Mag, the article starts out "Tiny footprints, made of blood were everywhere." So if that's the case then no gate.

Just wondering - Didn't Meredith make some reference to this as well in the 911 call?
Yes Meredith said in the 911 call there were little foot prints all over. I also recall early on it was said (can't remember who said that) that supposedly the dog slept in Cassidy's room at night.

scandi
01-20-2007, 01:34 AM
Close, did you read or hear on a show that there were dog prints throughout the house? I wonder that because you just mentioned paw prints, and I did read this within the last two weeks.

I've had the same thought MGS about the dogs reaction to the murderer. Really the dog was JY's and Michelle inherited him by marriage. If his master was bludgeoning her and told him to stay or sit, would he obey with all that going on?

Gee, how do you search for 3 letter words in the search mode?

philamena
01-20-2007, 02:04 AM
The People Magazine article stated that there were little bloody foot prints all over the house. I'm thinking the article referred to the child's footprints. :(
IMO, the dog was in the house when the murder occured and it was most likely locked in another room.

close_enough
01-20-2007, 08:06 AM
sorry guys...i worded that wrong...when i posted ONLY the paw prints i was talking strictly about the dog at that time....yes, Cassidy's foot prints were all over the house.....

RC...wasn't it Smoketree (sp?) that mentioned the paw prints in the house, along with the other 'things' done to Michelle's body???....good grief, i can't separate rumor from fact anymore with this case :banghead:

scandi
01-20-2007, 04:27 PM
It could be Close, as I did go back and read her posts. I'll check it out!

It was Smoketree8 Close:

http://boards.courttv.com/showthread.php?postid=8866485#post8866485

Snip
" . .It was stated the child and the dog tracked it in the house. I bet the wold house was sprayed with luminol."


A couple of posts down she says her hubby was told this by a family member. Scandi

PS: Very Good Close! A beautiful eagle feather for you today. lol

Samiya
01-21-2007, 08:30 AM
sorry guys...i worded that wrong...when i posted ONLY the paw prints i was talking strictly about the dog at that time....yes, Cassidy's foot prints were all over the house.....

RC...wasn't it Smoketree (sp?) that mentioned the paw prints in the house, along with the other 'things' done to Michelle's body???....good grief, i can't separate rumor from fact anymore with this case :banghead:Yep yep Close..... but wouldn't elaborate on what was 'apparently done' to Chelle.

She was also the person who stated that it was Meredith who found the tooth while collecting 'personal effects' from the Birchleaf Dr home.

Sami
xxx

scandi
01-21-2007, 01:07 PM
Interesting Sami, as we always thought it was the Young family that found the tooth. Did you hear it was a small tooth or part of a tooth?

How's your little Girlie?

Samiya
01-21-2007, 01:59 PM
Interesting Sami, as we always thought it was the Young family that found the tooth. Did you hear it was a small tooth or part of a tooth?

How's your little Girlie?Hiya gorgeous :)

It was...it was Jason's sister who found the 'tooth' (not sure if it was Heather or Kimberly, but I'd guess Heather). I don't know if it was a full one or partial......but I was sure hoping it was a cap from Jason's teeth, lol.

My grammybaby is doing well. She's got me all clucky, lol. My daughter expresses milk so proud dad take in turns feeding too and they alternate the night feeds (him one night, her the next). I have to say I'm proud of SIL. He's a very considerate father and makes sure that my girl gets plenty of rest and sleep.

Hugs
Sami

close_enough
01-21-2007, 02:06 PM
It could be Close, as I did go back and read her posts. I'll check it out!

It was Smoketree8 Close:

http://boards.courttv.com/showthread.php?postid=8866485#post8866485

Snip
" . .It was stated the child and the dog tracked it in the house. I bet the wold house was sprayed with luminol."


A couple of posts down she says her hubby was told this by a family member. Scandi

PS: Very Good Close! A beautiful eagle feather for you today. lol

thanks for looking that up Scandi:)
....i knew i had read this at ctv....wasn't positive it was Smoketree, but felt it might have been......

scandi
01-21-2007, 02:50 PM
Here's another link about the tooth, That Smoketree was dropping some little bombs:

http://boards.courttv.com/showthread.php?postid=8844239#post8844239

Snip
" . .tooth was found in the bedroom by Michelle's sister. She was at the house after the investigators had cleared the crime scene. Meredith was there gathering personal effects when she discovered the tooth. The investigators were contacted and they closed the house again and did another crime scene sweep. The house was torn apart by investigators and was a mess. They had sprayed luminol all over the house."

Eord then comes back to say it was found by JY's sister. This poster has a friend who knows Michelle's family from what she says.