FL-Jennifer Kesse, 24yo Orlando, FL 1/24/2006 Part 2 [Archive]

Bobbisangel

12-28-2006, 01:03 AM

I can see one bit of good that has come from Jennifer's tragedy...just reading Jennifer's uncle's letter tells me that he has found his answer in the Lord. What a touching letter and he is so right. I believe that prayer is answered in three ways...yes, no, and wait. We are so impatient and want an answer right now. Sometimes the answer is "wait." but prayers are always answered.

I wish that Jennifer would be found too. It just seems impossible that there aren't any clues anywhere. Whoever took her knew to wipe the car down everywhere he touched as there must not have been any fingerprints. I think that whoever took Jennifer had been watching her for awhile. She went on vacation and the day after she got back he got her. I don't think that she is alive although I hope I'm wrong. It has been almost a year. Even if families come to that conclusion how do they go on with their lives not knowing anything about her disappearance or where she is? There is a killer on the loose that will probably strike again. When do you stop hoping without feeling guilt? My heart goes out to Jennifer's parents and family. I hope there is some resolve for them soon.

Enrique Sparta

01-07-2007, 02:00 AM

I've been following this case. that "person of interest" photo is frustrating. There just isn't much to go on. I'm curious to know why this photo is so important. There has to be something else they're not telling the public. Why is somebody walking by such a big deal, it probably happens there all the time. It's been a while and I think they should give more information on this person of interest photo. It's hard to see but I get the feeling in his right hand he's carrying a fed-ex package or something like that which would make sense if he had something to do with it because Jennifer was mailing her brother's friend's phone back to him. I think this disappearance occurred in the morning some time. Jennifer had just gotten back from a long trip and went straight to work. She must've been tired and it sounded as if she made a call to her boyfriend right before she went to sleep, maybe already in her bed. The shower apparently had been used in the morning too and her morning work clothes were on the bed right? I'm sure she planned on mailing the phone on the way to work in the morning. Most people wouldn't demand she do it that very minute or whatever. I think she probably showered, laid her work clothes out, threw some sweats on or something and went off to the post office or whatever something like that. I can't get a feel for the person of interest. It's just such an odd picture. I think this person may be wearing a baseball cap bakcwards but I can't be certain. I do really feel he's carrying the package Jennifer was supposed to send. I wish we had more info on why that person is of interest.

Myserty64

01-07-2007, 05:41 PM

I wonder about the POI too. There are whispers that there is evidence of the POI parking Jennifer's car although this evidence has never been released to the public.

Why would it not be released?
Police have stated that the car was dropped at the complex about the same time as the POI was photographed.
They must have based that statement on something

For what's worth I think Jennifer was the victim of a stalker who had no prior criminal history.
There must have been some evidence in her car (there always is) and my guess is there are no matches for that evidence in any data base. This means this case will not be solved until the perpetrator is caught for another offence.
JMHO.

Enrique Sparta

01-07-2007, 09:48 PM

agree they HAVE to know more because how would they know the car was dropped off at about the same time the "person of interest" was photographed. That one picture alone DOES NOT give us that information. Which leads me to wonder why they aren't telling us more. I understand they can't give away everything but it's clear that photo is not enough. The best we can do is speculate. The only thing we know is that this person is short, 5'3"-5'5" we don't even have a face. Everything else is simply guessing.

I think you may be right, a stalker, perhaps one of the construction workers around her apartment complex? I wonder if they've been thoroughly investigated. Probably.

I don't understand these missing person cases. What happens to them? I'm dying to know and I don't even know these people. I can't imagine one of my family members disappearing like this. I feel so awful for the families. It's so bizzare and so sad. Are there really that many maniacs out there who want to abduct somebody, do whatever, kill them, and then bury the victims somewhere?

philamena

01-08-2007, 12:39 AM

Jennifer didn't fall off the face of the earth. :hand:
Neither did Tara Grinstead. :hand:
Neither did Natalee Holloway. :hand:
Neither did the Wix family and thousands of others.
SOMEONE knows something but won't /can't come forward. It's the only logical answer.

Myserty64

01-08-2007, 02:54 AM

Perpetrators rarely if ever come forward. Some perpetrators get lucky. In the Kesse case it seems there are no witnesses and there is no evidence in the public arena.
If the POI is the perpetrator as seems likely his face is blocked by a gate post in both photos.
One only has to visit the DOE site to see there are many thousands of people who just vanish forever. For everyone of these people there are many family members and loved ones who have had their lives all but destroyed.
It is very, very sad.

drumstick

01-12-2007, 06:01 PM

From Jennifer's family ...

In Remembrance of Jennifer’s Disappearance One Year Ago

Please Join Us on Wednesday January 24, 2007 :

We, Jennifer’s family and friends, will be on “The Corner” - John Young Pkwy and Americana/Conroy Road from 7:30 to 9:00am. We want to remind everyone in Orlando that Jennifer is still missing and we still need your help to bring her home. We will be displaying Jennifer’s Missing Posters.
A Prayer Vigil at First Baptist Church of Orlando, located at 3000 S. John Young Pkwy at I-4 in the Marie Williams Chapel from 8:00am to 6:00pm is being offered for anyone wishing to stop by and pray for Jennifer.
At 5:00PM – 5:30PM - The Kesse Family will hold a service, in the Chapel, for Jennifer and the Orlando Community as our way of saying Thank You for all of the support you have provided us during this difficult time. s

January, 2007 Family Letter

January 24, 2007 will mark one year since Jennifer was last seen or heard from and her nightmare began through the senseless act of her abduction in Orlando , Florida . One year ago her life and the life of her family and friends, changed as she and we knew it.

Time has stood still since then and will until Jennifer comes home to us. Though the mystery of her abduction remains unsolved our resolve to find Jennifer is unwavering and has never been stronger. The heartache and pain we feel from her absence every moment cannot be put into words. We feel Jennifer within us…she gives us the strength to continue our fight to find her. Jennifer we love you, miss you and will never give up on you!

Jennifer’s disappearance has touched the hearts of many people who we may never know – from Orlando , our state, across the country and the world. So many people have reached out to help her in ways that astound and humble us, it is absolutely amazing.

We would like to extend our heartfelt thanks to everyone for unselfishly giving of your time, support, kind words and comfort, which has been a great source of strength to us – we are forever indebted to you.

We have not yet reached the right person who can provide the needed answers to find Jennifer. To the person(s) who are involved with Jennifer’s disappearance and the family or friends of these individuals who can provide information on what has happened to her, we ask that you search your heart and soul for the strength to come forward so we may bring Jennifer home. We know it is difficult, we understand it will take a lot of courage to do the right thing, but know that peace and forgiveness will be yours.

To the authorities, who have been tireless in their actions and commitment – we want you and your community to know that we greatly appreciate the individual and family sacrifices each of you make everyday. We know how hard you all are working to bring Jennifer home. Your work and ours are not done until we find Jennifer. We will be there along side of you, supporting your efforts for as long as it takes. You will always have our total respect and admiration for the work you do! Our prayers are with you and your families so that you safely return home to your loved ones everyday.

Many thanks to the media both locally and nationally - you have shown our family incredible support and compassion when dealing with us. We thank you for being there and keeping Jennifer’s story high in public awareness which is critical in missing person’s cases. You are an integral part of the equation which will ultimately bring Jennifer home. You all have been true professionals and have shown great respect to Jennifer and our family in a most sensitive crime. Please keep her story alive!

Finally, we ask every reader to please continue to pass on this website to everyone you know and ask them to read about Jennifer’s story and pass it on to everyone they know.

Awareness and visibility will help create action and results!

Please remember that Jennifer is not the only missing/abducted person in Orlando , Florida or our country, and attention is needed to help the families of all missing people, each of us can make a difference!

Many thanks to all of you,

Drew, Joyce and Logan Kesse and Rob Allen

~

mistivon

01-20-2007, 09:41 PM

Wednesday will mark one year since the disappearance of Jennifer Kesse, and her family says they are keeping up the search despite having few clues left.

The 24-year-old was reported missing on January 24th, 2006, after she failed to show up for work. Numerous searches were conducted near her condo near the Mall at Millenia. Her car was found two days later less than a mile away. But very few clues were ever found to explain her disappearance.

Her parents live in Bradenton but say they still return to Orlando most weeks to put up more fliers of their missing daughter, meet with detectives, and drive the streets in their poster-covered SUV.

They also man a tip line and Web site: findjenniferkesse.com (http://findjenniferkesse.com/).

http://www.cfnews13.com/News/Local/2007/1/20/the_search_for_jennifer.html

drumstick

01-21-2007, 08:18 AM

Our hearts and prayers go out to Jennifer and her family everyday and especially

during this week of the one year mark since Jennifer was kidnapped/abducted.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/orange/orl-mkesse2007jan20,0,2579075.story?coll=orl-home-promo (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/orange/orl-mkesse2007jan20,0,2579075.story?coll=orl-home-promo)

Kate Santich | </SPAN>Sentinel Staff Writer

(Kate has written the most beautiful and heart wrenching account of the aftermath since

Jennifer was kidnapped. I hope everyone takes the time to read it. ~drumstick~)

Below are more stories where Jennifer’s case has recently been in the news.

http://www.app.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061211/NEWS02/612110335/1070 (http://www.app.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061211/NEWS02/612110335/1070)

http://www.cfnews13.com/News/Local/2007/1/20/the_search_for_jennifer.html (http://www.cfnews13.com/News/Local/2007/1/20/the_search_for_jennifer.html)

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/florida/orl-falsehope1807jan18,0,365942.story?coll=sfla-news-florida (http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/florida/orl-falsehope1807jan18,0,365942.story?coll=sfla-news-florida)

“For months after his daughter disappeared in January 2006, Drew Kesse stood on Orlando street corners holding pictures of Jennifer, 24. He and his wife, Joyce, will be out there again next week with the knowledge that "miracles do happen," Drew Kesse said, referring to the Missouri case.

"The most important thing I have seen come out [of the Missouri case] is that someone who has been taken can be walking our streets," said Drew Kesse, 49. "We need to keep a look out for Jennifer -- that's why we continue to keep her face out there as much as possible. Someone could possibly see her and identify her."

http://www.wesh.com/news/10785791/detail.html (http://www.wesh.com/news/10785791/detail.html)

“The Kesse family of Orlando has said several times that they will never stop looking for their daughter, Jennifer, who's been missing for nearly a year. The Kesses often referred to Elizabeth Smart, who was reunited with her family nine months after being abducted from her bedroom.”

docwho3

01-21-2007, 09:22 AM

Still hoping L.E. knows more than they have let on and will yet break this case.
Sometimes it just takes a long time.

petra

01-21-2007, 07:46 PM

My thoughts and prayers to Jennifer and her loved ones on this one year anniversary.

This is truly baffling. Just breaks my heart.

13th Juror

01-24-2007, 04:07 PM

Hey all ...

As anticipated - there is much publicity in our local media surrounding the 1 year anniversary of Jennifer's bizarre disappearance (Abduction).

Thank you, Drumstick, for taking the time and care to post some of the pertinent details of today's Kesse oriented events from the Jennifer Kesse family website (http://www.JenniferKesse.com/) here on this WS thread. Much appreciated!

I'm leaving home shortly to attend the 5 pm service for Jenn in the beautiful Marie Williams Chapel at the 1st Baptist Church of Orlando as soon as I hit the submit button. My next door neighbor is a retired news anchor from Local 6 (WKMG-TV) and has asked me to join her since she knew of my deep interest & concern about this extremely sad & baffling case.

Continued prayers for Jenn and her absolutely amazing family during this most difficult journey to finding their beloved daughter/sister ...

Time to leave ...

Later .. 13th Juror

drumstick

01-25-2007, 06:59 PM

Thank you 13th Juror for your kindness ...

We all want Jennifer to be found and hopefully keeping her story out there in the public eye, that one person who "knows" will be moved to make the call.

Tip line 1-407-772-2162 or 1-800-423-8744

~

panthera

01-25-2007, 07:10 PM

I still can't believe that it's been a year already and still no good leads on what may have happened to Jennifer. My thoughts and prayers for her family and that LE does get a break that will lead to finding her.

Sundayrain

01-25-2007, 08:54 PM

Nice to hear there is a prayer service for Jennifer.
So sad that she is missing, and so many other beautiful girls.
I was nice seeing her Mom and Dad in the interview with Greta last night.....
I hadn't seen them in an interview only on the streets origonally, holding
those signs.
If only someone could come forward with information.........if only they knew how important just a small fact can be.....

SeriouslySearching

01-26-2007, 04:26 AM

The family set up a beautiful and informative site. I know they must ache for their daughter. I truly feel for her family. She seemed to really have her life right on track then she just is gone with no trace. Doesn't make any sense at all. It is such a strange case with not much to go on.

I would like to know how far back/forward the car seat was when they found it and if it had been moved to fit another person. Also, had the mirrors been adjusted? Had the mileage changed alot since her last oil change which was not accounted for in her daily commute or trips since it was missing for a time (some people keep an accurate accounting of their mileage for gasoline expenses)? I am sure the police have the answers to questions like that, but have they shared anything at all with the public?

Since Jenn mentioned she was uneasy leads me to believe she was more than sensing trouble around, but didn't want to scare her BF or family so far away. Mentioning the workers might have been a clue, but maybe not the whole story. Why would they make her feel uneasy? Was it something one had said? A look? Was someone watching her? I feel there was something else in those statements she made. Since the condos weren't exactly full at the time, could a person have been staying in one with no one knowing? Or perhaps, a person was staying with someone else living there. During the past year, have they canvassed all of the residents again? Someone could have been looking to buy one at the time of her disappearance and be the perp or have seen something while on the property, but now lives there. Did they keep a list of potential buyers even if they just stopped in to look?

I never saw an article on what appeared to be missing specifically...except they had a search of the highway, I think I read, to 'put pressure' on the person responsible by looking for her cellphone, wallet, purse, etc. Anyone know? If those things were missing, it would seem quite possible the abduction may not have taken place there at all.

When I think about my own daughters' habits...I can tell you the places where they frequent...like which Starbucks, which grocery store they prefer (she had been gone and might have needed things), and which department store they go to for certain things (like Target for meds, etc.). Had she eaten earlier? Maybe she wanted something specific and went out to get it late that night. I wish they wouldn't, but my daughters will do that at times.

Just trying to get all trains of thought wrapped into this one. There has to be clues somewhere that they either haven't found the location of or have overlooked. She sounds like she was a very intelligent woman and if possible...would have left something somewhere and a perp is never perfect.

I pray this family finds the answers and finds Jenn safe, wherever she is. I know they will hold on to that hope and so will I. Miracles really do happen.

Myserty64

01-26-2007, 06:47 AM

I have followed this case for a long time and I’m saddened by the fact it is highly unlikely this case will ever be solved.

There doesn’t seem to be a suspect, any witnesses, any evidence or even a crime scene. There is no indication of whether Jennifer is alive or deceased.

Almost a year ago the man in charge of the investigation stated this mystery was as close to a vanishing as he had ever seen.

There was a time I wondered about the position of the car seat too. Was it forward or back? My guess would be it was set forward because it is known that the POI was the person who dropped the car at the Huntingdon on the Green apartments. The POI has an estimated height of 5’3”-5'5" compared to Jennifer’s 5’8”.

The car had a full tank when it left Fort Lauderdale for Jennifer’s place of work in Orlando. It was then driven to her condo after work. It is believed the car had an ‘appropriate’ amount of gas for the distance covered when it was recovered on the Thursday. This indicates the car wasn’t driven far on the day of the abduction but I don’t know if this is a fact.

All I know is missing is her purse, her cell phone, ipod and car keys. Also missing is a cell phone that was left by a friend of her brothers at her condo. Jennifer planned to ship that on the Tuesday it is believed.

Any perpetrator must leave some kind of evidence. We are always shedding hair and skin and unless we wear gloves we leave fingerprints. With a violent assault there is blood.

I have never heard of any blood.

I did hear that there was some forensic evidence from the car but whatever that evidence is does not match up with anything or anyone on any data bases.

If it is true that there was forensic evidence then we have to wait until the perpetrator re-offends and then their DNA or fingerprints will provide a match.

The general consensus is Jennifer was abducted at her car and that was most likely around 8am. We know the car was dropped at noon.

That four hour period bothers me greatly because it is a very long time.

I have tended to believe that Jennifer was the victim of a stalker she was unaware of but I don’t think that type of crime would cover a time span of four hours.

The other scenario is she was taken by someone she knew and knew well. If she knew the perpetrator then her guard would have been down and the surprise factor could explain the lack of evidence and more especially the lack of signs of any struggle.

This case is the ultimate mystery.

drumstick

01-26-2007, 08:41 AM

No one has given up hope of finding Jennifer.
In fact, just the opposite is true.

If you or someone you know has any information about Jennifer Kesse's disappearance, PLEASE call the tip line.
1-407-772-2162 or 1-800-423-8744
praying for your call .....

SeriouslySearching

01-26-2007, 05:33 PM

All I know is missing is her purse, her cell phone, ipod and car keys. Also missing is a cell phone that was left by a friend of her brothers at her condo. Jennifer planned to ship that on the Tuesday it is believed.

Any perpetrator must leave some kind of evidence. We are always shedding hair and skin and unless we wear gloves we leave fingerprints. With a violent assault there is blood.

I did hear that there was some forensic evidence from the car but whatever that evidence is does not match up with anything or anyone on any data bases.

If it is true that there was forensic evidence then we have to wait until the perpetrator re-offends and then their DNA or fingerprints will provide a match.

The general consensus is Jennifer was abducted at her car and that was most likely around 8am. We know the car was dropped at noon.

That four hour period bothers me greatly because it is a very long time.

I have tended to believe that Jennifer was the victim of a stalker she was unaware of but I don’t think that type of crime would cover a time span of four hours.

The other scenario is she was taken by someone she knew and knew well. If she knew the perpetrator then her guard would have been down and the surprise factor could explain the lack of evidence and more especially the lack of signs of any struggle.

If those things are missing, it would indicate she was out and about so the crime scene very well might not be where they were looking. The reason they wouldn't find signs of a struggle. If no one saw her, how do they know she went missing around 8:00 am? How are they able to develop a timeline when the car arrived in the parking lot, because maybe I am reading it wrong, but wasn't that just the time when someone found it? I thought she talked to her Bf last the night before which was the last known contact after she was home and had gotten off work which would leave many hours unaccounted for.

When was the brother and friend with her for the cellphone to have been left? I obviously missed that story. Could you help me find it?

The missing friend's cellphone would have probably been tucked in her purse as a way for her to remember to send it back. The ipod tells me she was planning on being gone for a few minutes when she left the apartment unless she always kept that in her purse.

The evidence they found in the car doesn't seem to lead them in any real direction or they would say so. It tells me they really don't have an idea of the description whatsoever. Had they found hair inconsistent with her or her bf's...they would want the color out there. Prints would be possible, but like you said...won't know until they get a match. It bothers me they are putting so much stock into this poor quality photo of the so-called POI. There appears to be nothing to connect the dots there.

I would recommend the Bf undergo hypnosis to try to recall the EXACT conversation they had about her feeling uneasy. She knew at that point something was amiss and she was afraid of something or someone...or it is possible her women's intuition had kicked in. Not saying his memory is off, but in wake of her going missing...trying to retrieve every word would only seem logical. It sounds like the best and only real lead they have.

Myserty64

01-26-2007, 07:31 PM

Quite early in the case a list of 'facts' was drawn up regarding the disappearance of Jennifer Kesse. ( please note that all this information was summarised from information in the public arena)

Jennifer's Car has been declared a crime scene.

-- A group of people (brother's friends) were staying at her condo while she was away.

-- Jennifer's boyfriend lives in Ft. Lauderdale

-- They met at Tiki Bar in downtown Orlando, a year previous

-- Polygraph tests have been used, but it unknown how many and on whom

-- The scent trail from her car at HOTG led back to the staircase that Jennifer would have used to come down from her condo.

-- LE has used footage from surveillance cameras at various stores in the area.

-- On the Monday Jennifer returned from vacation she spoke to her mother in the morning while both were driving to work. At around 6.30pm she spoke to her dad and around 10pm (9:57pm) she spoke to her boyfriend. She also spoke to a female friend for a few hours.

The condo numbers are also used to number the parking allotments. Jennifer’s was 2226.

Before leaving Fort Lauderdale Jennifer used a credit card to fill the car. When the car was found it had ‘half a tank’ of gas which has been calculated to be ‘about right.’

Forensic tests were carried out on Jennifer’s car but no results are known.

It is known that Jennifer was not the last person to drive her car.

Prior to her abduction, Jennifer did express concerns over workers in the Mosaic complex.

Jennifer was very cautious and aware of her surroundings. She would make safe calls to friends or family when walking through a dark parking lot or while anyone was working in her condo.

Items that are missing: Her purse, ipod, two cell phones (hers and the friend's)

Jenns commute time to work was usually 15 - 20 minutes (during which time she would speak with RA )

Her boyfriend tried to call but got her voice mail and left a message. He thought it was odd but he was rushing to get to a 9:00 a.m. meeting at work. He said he knew she was very busy at work and really didn't think too much of it until her parents called.

They found out that Jenn was missing 15 minutes after she failed to report to work. According to Drew, Jenn was very routine oriented and would call even if she was running 5 minutes late to work.

They said that they know for a fact that her car was dropped off around noontime on Tuesday, 1/24. They also know that Jenn was not the last one to drive her car.

One other thing. Her credit card was not used since filling up at gas station in Ft. L.

Her epass transponder was not used, so we can surmise that the car was not driven on a toll road.

SeriouslySearching

01-26-2007, 10:16 PM

Thanks for that rundown! I have been going back and doing my homework on everything I can find about this case. I think the story I found that Greta did with the photos explained a lot. Altho, in her story...she reported the dog led them back to her apartment complex from the car...but NOT to her apartment. This would be a good clue to me for them to concentrate on. It would support one of my theories of the perp being either someone staying at the complex they are unaware of or being there to look at condos. Too bad they cannot find a way to take the dogs back through the site with the same scent trail to follow up on...or can they? I assume the car is still in evidence which means the scent would be present for the dog. It would be interesting to see if the dog can 'dig' up a more recent scent in case they are now a resident. Worth a shot I would say...if it can be done.

I realize I come up with some unusual ideas, but unless they can break this case with someone talking...they are going to have to work outside the box. I feel sometimes the police get stuck in their investigations and are so trained to stay a course that they develop tunnel vision. If it doesn't work once, they don't go back and try things again at a later date...like the dog, canvassing the complex, etc. I still would like to see her bf go under hypnosis about that phone conversation. (I don't think he would have a problem with it at all. Maybe he will even volunteer to do this. Someone could ask!)

Beyond Belief

01-26-2007, 10:26 PM

I believe the parents sold her car.

SeriouslySearching

01-26-2007, 10:50 PM

Ah, Ok then. That dog won't hunt. (pun intended)

Enrique Sparta

01-27-2007, 05:57 PM

Mystery64,

good rundown of the things we know. However I'm interested in what you said that it is KNOWN that the person of interest is the one who dropped the car off at the Huntington on the Green apartments. How do you know? Do you have inside info? This hasn't been released publically yet. Obviously law enforcement must know more about this person of interest because that one photo alone is not enough to make them a POI. Which means they must either have other photos? If they have any other images of this person they should release them. That photo is not leading to anything. I do believe that this POI is carrying what looks to be like a package of some sort although that is purely guessing based on what I can kind of make out when I look at that photo. Probably the package with the cell phone in it? There has to be some other info on this POI because it's clear nobody saw this person (at least none that have come forward) that's why they don't know anything (not even gender) other than that this person is 5'3"-5'5" The cops say it's a POI because they know the car was dropped off around the time this POI was there. Well how can they come to that conclusion based on that photo and that photo alone? There are either some other security cameras OR somebody saw this person park that car. Either way they need to give the public more information.

I think it's clear JK wasn't abducted in the nighttime. She was probably in bed when talking to her bf and probably was dead tired after going straight to work from the vacation trip. I bet she planned on mailing the phone right before work. Her work clothes were laid out on her bed, yes? I think she was dropping off the cell phone package at the mail before getting ready for work and was either abducted in her parking area at her apartment or wherever she was driving to mail the package. Was the post office near where her work is?

not sure what to make of the bloodhounds tracing her scent back to her apartment complex. odd.

if she had concerns over the workmen at her building, they should look closely at these people shouldn't they? i'm sure LE has canvassed these folks though.

Myserty64

01-29-2007, 05:23 AM

There has been a lot of discussion as to the tracking merits of Bo the bloodhound. Was Bo tracking properly that day? To that question most experts say no. However I look at it this way. Whatever Bo tracked it led to Mosaic Apartments where Jennifer lived. If the dog wasn’t tracking he could have wound up just about anywhere in Orlando. The dog didn’t do that though, he finished up at the staircase leading up to Jennifer’s condo.

On the POI; I felt the same as many about this person. What was the fuss about because the way I saw it this person just happened to be walking by at that time of day. I did learn there was another camera at the Huntingdon complex and that camera overlooks the lot where Jennifer’s car was dropped. There must be photographic evidence of the car being dropped otherwise how can the POI be linked to the car being dropped.

The next question is why hasn’t this evidence been released to the public especially since the other photos are in the public domain. The only reason that comes to mind is these photos must be of a very poor quality and while they show the car being parked the images are useless for identification purposes.

I wonder if the POI is actually the perpetrator or an accomplice? Or did the POI drop the car there because he asked to do it as a favor for a friend. Was the POI aware that the car was a crime scene? Is the POI still alive?

Thinking of crime scenes why did the police declare the car a crime scene? I have no idea what evidence was found in the car but there just has to be forensic evidence of some kind. However it takes weeks for forensic evidence to come back from the labs and the car was declared a crime scene on the day it was found. What did the police find that day?

Another thing that I have wondered about is the way the car was perfectly parked. It was left as if it belonged there. Many dumped cars I have seen are parked in any random manner, often with windows down or doors unlocked. I believe Jennifer’s car was locked when found. If the POI was parking the car there as a favor who did he return the keys to? The keys have never been found.

The POI appears a smaller person than Jennifer Kesse and the latter was security conscious and intelligent. How was she overpowered leaving no evidence? Did the perpetrator have a gun or knife? Surely Jennifer would have put up a struggle if she was physically assaulted and if that happened there would surely have been broken jewelry such as a watch or bracelet or even a button or shoe.

There are not many cases like this where there is so little to work on. Sure there are plenty of unsolved cases but in most of those someone saw something or there are other suspicions or even suspects but no hard evidence. In many case of this kind the perpetrator is known by the victim. I expect the police have checked out former boyfriends and any friends from work along with any difficult clients.

It is worth keeping in mind that often the perpetrator appears to have an alibi.

Someone out there somewhere has all the answers to this mystery. Unless they are deceased, right at this very moment they are breathing the same air as you and I.

Sadly though, as this case stands, Jennifer Kesse just vanished off the face of the Earth; without a trace.

SeriouslySearching

01-29-2007, 12:42 PM

Enrique- I don't see where Mystery said it was KNOWN that the POI was the person that dropped off the car. Mystery said it was known that the car was dropped off at or near a specific time. LE says POI happened to be in the area at that time. LE must have other photos of the car or something else to go on for being able to pinpoint a time. The pics Greta's team took looked like the area where they parked the car was kind of obscure. There were no windows, as I recall on the side of that building and the pool with the fencing was right there.

Nothing they came up with really makes me certain she disappeared in the morning. They said her bed look messed up like she had slept in it, but she did have a television on the dresser. (Greta's team pics didn't show a bed that looked slept in to me, but looked as if someone had laid on top of the covers.) I have curled up many times after a shower in or on my bed before getting dressed while watching tv. A hot shower after a long drive and a day at work would be normal for me, too. Then I would don some sweats or casual clothes before getting a bite to eat. (What was the piece of clothing laying on her bed? Looked like a sweatshirt or t-shirt to me.)

No one mentioned anything about dinner. Did she mention to her bf or family that she had eaten that evening? Did she always cook or fix a sandwich at home? Most single people I know eat out almost every night either fast food or at some favorite haunt. Being her condo had been full of her brother's friends all weekend, I would assume her stock of food had been consumed for the most part or perhaps she didn't restock earlier because she was going away. I would ask what all they ate, if they noticed what was left, and be clear on those points. What did she normally keep for herself in her fridge? (Her BF should know the answer to that one.) It would make sense she might have gone to the grocery store or convenience store on Monday night or out to get food. Tired or not, a person still has to eat. Maybe LE didn't check the surveillance videos for those places on Monday night since they believe she was only out the next morning. Also, would they have checked grocery stores anyway...being they believe it was before work on Tuesday and the reasoning of who goes to shop for groceries before going in to work? (No one I personally know does if they have to be at work early! They wait until on their way home.)

Another thing occurred to me, while her brother was staying at the condo, did he have his own set of keys or her set? Could those have ever left his sight? A perp can make a copy for a duplicate key very quickly. They haven't said much about the brother's partying and friends' actions while staying there, that I have found anyway. Where did they go and what went on while they were there? Did they hang out at the pool and leave the condo unlocked at any time? That would be a stalker's dream...to check out her place for a few minutes which could drive up his excitement level and his sick need to confront her...leading up to an abduction. It would also allow time for someone to unlock a window to enter later.

If the dog did track back to her stairway, it leaves me with more questions. (Also, why would they say the dog didn't pick up a scent then?) Why would someone go back there after they got rid of her car unless they lived or were staying there? (Meaning LE would have already talked to them during the initial investigation so they would need to revisit those people.) Someone employed at the condos would probably have gone straight to the area where they were supposed to be working and not to her apartment building if the car was left during their lunch break as to not draw attention to themselves by being late. I am sure LE checked out if anyone was working right there the day the car was found.

LE should release everything except that one key piece of info they always hold back for verification. The family should put pressure on LE for them to get the facts out there in the hope it could generate new leads or maybe the perp/perps would feel the crunch in some way and make a mistake.

Enrique Sparta

01-29-2007, 03:46 PM

Enrique Sparta

01-29-2007, 05:31 PM

SeriouslySearching

01-29-2007, 06:38 PM

it would easy to know if JK was abducted monday night or tuesday morning, just ask her bf what the convo was like at about 10 PM. was she in bed and tired? normal convo before bedtime? So whatever she had for dinner isn't really relevant if she was talking to her bf while lying in bed and is that her normal bedtime? Probably. She may have been abducted in the middle of the night but that would mean someone broke in, didn't seem that way. Perhaps someone got a key from her brother if they had a party and lots of people were there. But also her work clothes were out in the morning, the shower was recently used. I still think she was gonna run a quick errand before getting ready for work (the post office to drop off the package with the cell phone?) was the post office on her way to work or the opposite direction?

Is there anything special about where the car was found? Are there gates leading into the parking spaces of that apartment complex? or can anybody just drive in and park there?

and yes the police need to give us something other than that lame POI picture which gives very little and obviously nobody is speaking. Can't even see a face. We all know there has to be more to make that POI a POI. The cops know we know, release some more, it may be beneficial especially to those who live in the area.
I would LOVE to ask the boyfriend about their conversation and more! Haven't you ever gotten out of bed for a midnight snack? I have plenty of times. And, yes, I have driven to get it. Sometimes a person just wants something specific.

If over the weekend, the perp had a chance to unlock a window in the apartment, had gotten a copy of the key, or had a pass key...there would be no signs of a break-in.

I believe they said the clothes laid on the chair were the ones she had worn to work that day. Were there other clothes laid out neatly in her room? I saw something which just looked to be tossed onto the end of her bed in the photos that Greta's team took. Is this what you are talking about?

If I were running a quick errand on a work day, I would dress for work right after I took a shower then go. Why shower then have to come home again to redress? She was a stickler about being there on time every day. Besides, how do they know the shower would have been completely dry from a shower taken later the night before? It would depend on the humidity in the apartment and other factors, I believe.

I am still not convinced of their timeline of when she went missing.

Enrique Sparta

01-29-2007, 07:03 PM

The POlice have talked to the boyfriend many times and obviously there was nothing outta the norm about their convo and they cleared him as a suspect so up until that point it's safe to say she was alright. It's possible she was abducted in the middle of the night by someone who gained access to the house by way of key or an open window. But the POlice have surely interviewed the brother and who was there. Not sure if it was a big party or just a select few friends. And if JK was abducted in the middle of the night by an intruder, he did a fine job of covering his tracks and there were no reports of any screaming or struggling of any kind. She may have gone somewhere after she talked to her bf but that would be easy to find out based on their convo if she was already in bed and just called to say night night.

I've never left my house after waking up in the middle of the night to get something to eat. To get something in my fridge, yes, but not leave the house.

Myserty64

01-29-2007, 08:10 PM

How does a person vanish without trace?

Early last year a person writing under the name of Christopher Marlowe presented a scenario of what could have happened to Jennifer.

He surmised the perpetrator was a person working at Mosaic at the time JK was abducted.

His scenario included the perpetrators van being parked right next to Jennifer’s car. Jennifer was bundled into the van as she was about to get into her car. Whether the abduction was planned or happened because the perpetrator took advantage of an opportunity is open to question.

An abduction of this speed and type explains why nobody saw anything and also why the crime scene has no evidence. Jennifer and her belongings were bundled into the van in the blink of an eye.

When I first read this scenario it sent a chill down my spine because it was so plausible and well presented one could have thought it was written by someone who was there that fateful morning.

Enrique Sparta

01-29-2007, 08:36 PM

I bet sometimes the people responsible for some of these missing people read these boards and maybe even post. It's similar to criminals, be it murderers or whoever, following their crimes in the news and newspapers religiously, cutting out articles, etc. Now in the internet age, there is a new way to follow your crimes, you can join in on the discussion at a variety of websites and read what people have to say and participate yourself. Creepy thought...

there might be some type of evidence that was found in her JK's car and the police aren't releasing that info. like you mentioned, they did declare it a crime scene right away.

there are a lot of other people who vanish without a trace too. Jason Jolkowski, Michael Negrete, Amanda Berry, the medical student from Ohio St Brian Shaffer, Jesse Ross is another recent one, Amy Bradley, that Hornbeck kid before he was recently found, Kristen Moddaferri, and on and on.

I wonder what happens to these people!

drumstick

01-29-2007, 08:58 PM

If YOU or someone YOU know has any information about the disappearance of Jennifer Kesse, PLEASE!! call the two tip line phone numbers set up for YOU to call!

1-407-772-2162
or
1-800-423-8744

If you can't bring yourself to call these numbers then please seek the other ways to contact Jennifer's Mom & Dad.
You can call any attorney, pastor, or tell a friend of yours the situation and tell them to call.
Please find a way!

Thank you ~

Beyond Belief

01-30-2007, 11:01 AM

It would really be beneficial if the entire tape was available like the ones shown in the Sandra Prince case. I would really like to see which way the shadows were going. I can't help but think/guess that the image would be projected on that car.

SeriouslySearching

01-30-2007, 06:01 PM

SeriouslySearching

02-02-2007, 05:11 AM

Does anyone know if Drumstick is related to Jennifer or the family? I am quite curious.

drumstick

02-02-2007, 07:01 AM

Enrique Sparta

02-02-2007, 02:45 PM

I get the feeling cops know MUCH more about her disappearance than they are letting on.

panthera

02-02-2007, 03:33 PM

I would be honored to be a family member of the Kesse's but I am not.

Thank you for your kind words and your prayers for Jennifer and her family.

I am a concerned citizen trying in my own small way to help a Mom and Dad who have lost their daughter to a criminal.

If YOU or someone YOU know has any information about the kidnapping/abduction of Jennifer Kesse from Orlando, Fl on January 24, 2006

please call the family tip line at ....

1-407-772-2162 or call Crime Line at 1-800-423-TIPS(8477)

Thank you.

~drumstick~Thank you for keeping Jennifer's case updated here. I can't imagine what could have happened to her, or why. How she could just vanish with no leads, and her car ending up in the apt. complex parking lot, or who this POI was on the video. So many questions~

Bobbisangel

02-03-2007, 07:37 AM

I've always thought that Jennifer was taken by someone with a connection to her condo complex. I would be more inclined to believe it was someone working there who might have been watching her for a while. She had been on vacation and right after she gets back he grabs her. He hadn't seen her for a week or two and probably couldn't contain himself any longer.

I think he asked if she could drop him off somewhere. She probably recognized him from him working around there and didn't think anything of saying that she would drop him off at such and such a place. He probably had a good story ready. I would imagine that after then got going he pulled a gun or knife on her and made her drive somewhere. Later he drove her car to that parking lot and left it there and he walked over to the condo complex and went back to work. If his disappearance was noticed by anyone he could say that he had been in a different condo working instead of the one he was thought to be working in. He probably wasn't gone long. He could even live near by and taken her to his house if he is single...tied her up and left her until after he got off work. His on vehicle would have been at the condo for him to return home in.

It could also have been someone living at the condo....or someone who had a girlfriend there and would see Jennifer leaving in the morning when he was also leaving for work. I really believe that the killer is connected to the condo in some way. I can't imagine him going right back there after dropping the car off in that parking lot if he didn't have a connection there.

It is hard for me to believe that there wasn't fingerprints left in her car or something. Was the killer smart enough to wipe the car down before he dropped it off? LE should be able to tell how tall he was by measuring the distance between the pedals and the seat. It sounds like he moved the seat back. How can there not be anything at all? I hope that this person is caught someday but boy right now it doesn't seem likely.

cazador

02-03-2007, 10:52 PM

Also Sandra Eubank was abducted in Birmingham..
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/05/31/attorney.abducted/index.html

Similar..
Her car left in an apartment complex.

Somehow the perp managed to get her to a hotel some ways away.

Indicating an accomplice?...A team..Maybe have done this before ??

It is about 10 hours away ..But maybe .
This perp is in jail..
Easy for LE to interview and to see where he was in and around the time of Jennifer..
It takes a certain personality to abduct..
Not every bad guy out there would be willing to do that..
jmho

drumstick

02-04-2007, 10:32 AM

Thank you for the information about the impending sentencing hearing for Dedrick Griham.

He will no doubt be sentenced to life in a Federal prison for kidnapping, rape, and the list goes on ... long rap sheet with pages of priors.

< ". Judge Proctor set February 22, 2007, as the sentencing date. GRIHAM remains in police custody." >
http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/aln/Docs/November%202006/NOVEMBER%209,%202006%20GRIHAM%20FOUND%20GUILTY%20O N%20ALL%20THREE%20COUNTS%20CHARGED.html

Oddly, Griham was paroled after serving only 8 years of his 20 year sentence for armed robbery in three different cases.
He was released from prison in August of 2005.
In May 2006 he was arrested for the kidnapping, rape of Sandra Eubank (an attorney) in Birmingham, Alabama.

Where he was on January 24, 2006 ( the day Jennifer Kesse was kidnapped/abducted) should have been discovered by Federal law enforcement after all this time.

I don't believe he had anything to do with Jennifer's disappearance.

IMO

If you have any information about the kidnapping of Jennifer Kesse, I urge you to call the tip line.
1-407-772-2162 or 1-800-423-8744

~

ShowerSinger

02-06-2007, 04:19 AM

I can't remember if anything more was discussed about the photo near the car being a woman. Did the boyfriend who went on the trip with her have a previous girlfriend? Was a coworker jealous because she is so beautiful? Or, perhaps the perp has a girlfriend, and told her to drop off the car. Someone earlier blew up the photo, and I can't remember if they could tell. Any thoughts?

Myserty64

02-07-2007, 09:20 PM

The days go by in this case and nothing happens. I think it is fair to say no more is known about Jennifer's disappearance today than the first couple of weeks after January 24th 2006.
I wonder why the secrecy over her phone records?
She talked to her boyfriend just before 10pm on the evening of the 23rd and that is the last known phone call.
Jennifer also had a landline and the police have never released any information on any incoming or outgoing calls on that phone.
Is it possible Jennifer received a call that lured her out of her condo?
Her cell phone should have been sending out 'pings.' When was the last ping recorded?

Bobbisangel

02-09-2007, 04:28 AM

Maybe there just isn't anything to tell. I don't think LE has a lick of evidence or has found anything that will help find Jennifer. It is just unbelievable that she could disappear like this without a fingerprint on the car or anything. I think someone has gotten away with murder in Jennifer's case and in Tara's case. I will be surprised if they are ever found. I hope they are of course but it sure doesn't seem likely. They just vanished into thin air.

Myserty64

02-09-2007, 06:18 PM

Sadly I think you are right bobbisangel. She has simply vanished without trace.

I have been reading up on cases of other young woman who have vanished in a similar manner. Some of these cases were solved quickly, others after anything up to thirty years after the event and a few have never been solved. I did note that in many of the solved cases the perpetrator was a known sexual offender. I remember reading there were many registered sexual offenders in the area where Jennifer's car was found. Note that her car was dumped not much more than a mile from where she lived. I hope the police thoroughly checked out the above mentioned offenders and I do mean thoroughly.

My guess is the real crime scene in this case is the perpetrators vehicle. In most cases the perpetrator forces the victim into their car or van. A knife seems to be the most common weapon used.
Since no perpetrator has been located there is no vehicle and no crime scene. There is no body and no evidence either. The police may well have two or three suspects but they have nothing much more than hunches about them and that of course isn't enough.
The portents are not good for this case being solved anytime soon.

Enrique Sparta

02-09-2007, 10:44 PM

Hey maybe they don't have anything else to go on but I believe they do, only because of the POI and the fact they labeled the car a "crime scene" rather early on.

is it possible they truly are taking a shot in the dark at this POI photo and really don't know if he/she is involved in any way? i don't think so because i believe myserty64 stated the police made it know for a FACT that Jennifer Kesse's car was dropped off by somebody else on the Tuesday she disappeared at about 12 noon. The POI video footage is simply not enough evidence to make that statement unless they know more. This cannot be argued unless they're taking a wild guess and I don't think they are.

so why don't they give a little more? rumors that there are other cameras and show this POI dropping the car off? i think if there had been a better photo of this POI they would've released it. Rather a better chance an additional camera with footage of Jennifer's car being driven into that apartment complex parking lot is what law enforcement found. also likely no the person's face isn't clear or the camera didn't catch that. that makes sense and it would then be clear how the cops know the POI is key to Jennifer's case.

Myserty64, interesting theory of the phone records. It's possible this was a nighttime abduction. why do you think they wouldn't release the phone records?

okay here is something, if Jennifer was abducted out of her house at night, if she left the home voluntarily to do something and was abducted while out be it from a phone call someone made to lure her away or she had to run an errand, whatever...if it was a nighttime abduction....why does the abductor return the car in BROAD DAYLIGHT in a busy apartment complex? Remember I'm only going on the cops comment that they know for a FACT the car was dropped off at noon on Tuesday, January 24th.

one last thing....in a missing person's case, don't the cops not really say there is foul play involved unless they're absolutely 100% certain? it seems that it's a known fact Jennifer was abducted against her will. Now obviously this is normal for the family to be adamant that she has been kidnapped (I believe she was) but don't cops usually take a more open attitude just because it's procedure? (abduction, suicide, left on her own, etc) After all the large majority of missing persons cases, I think, are solved quickly and it's not an abduction but a run-away (somebody please correct me if I'm wrong!) I may be off but haven't they claimed she's been abducted and this has been their belief for a long time? For this reason I think they know more than they're letting on.

yes very strange disappearance though, very sad. I'm crazy to know what happens to these missing people.

Myserty64

02-10-2007, 06:18 AM

leftcoast

02-10-2007, 03:29 PM

Agreed Mystery, LE did state that Jenn was not the last person to drive her car.

I have been following the case since it was first on Greta last February. I continue to be frustrated by the lack of progress. LE continues to ask for the public's help, yet, all LE has released is the picture of the POI. I believe it is time to release more information.

My thoughts are as follows:

Why wasn't Jenn's condo treated as a potential crime scene?

Why didn't LE use roadblocks in the days after Jenn went missing. Roadblocks should have been used just outside of Jenn's condo, and of course, by HOTG, where her car was found.

I also think that too many people are assuming that the crime occurred in the morning when Jenn walked to her car. Unless these people have inside information, I think we should keep all options open. Personally, I am in the camp that believes something could have happened at night.

What about Jenn's habits. Is it possible Jenn went to work out Monday night, or even early Tuesday morning before work? Would Jenn stop at Starbucks or any other place for coffee on the way to work?

What I think should be done now:

I am not a professional investigator, but, I believe the following should be done.

I would continue to saturate the square mile area around HOTG and Jenn's condo with the fliers of her disappearance.

I would also look into the residents at Jenn's apartment complex where she lived, just two months prior to her disappearance.

I would also pass out fliers and look at Rob's neighbor's. I know Rob lived over three hours away, but, maybe one of his neighbors followed Jenn home.

I would also look at the moving company Jenn used (if she used movers), when she moved into her complex in November 2005.

I would also review Jenn's credit and debit card statements for October-January to learn what stores, restaurants, etc. that Jenn visited in those months. I would then visit each store, speak with the manager, and leave fliers. This should include video rental places, dry cleaning, car wash, oil changes, etc.

Let's face it, we all have our suspicions over who is responsible for this. Personally, I think it is someone who has a tie to Jenn's complex, a security guard, landscaper, etc. but, it is important for the police and citizens not to get tunnel vision, and to keep on giving support to the Kesse's at this horrible time of their life.

leftcoast

Beyond Belief

02-10-2007, 09:24 PM

I still think of Jennifer. I find it difficult to believe they couldn't find fingerprints in that car. If they have, I guess there was no match on any current records.

Bobbisangel

02-11-2007, 05:10 AM

I'm going purely by memory here but I seem to recall the police said this: 'Jennifer was not the last person to drive her car.' They made this statement fairly early in the investigation.
How would they know this?
Since there are no witnesses we are aware of there must be some kind of video footage of the car either being parked or being driven through an area where there was video surveillance.
Why it has been kept secret only the police know. They will have their reasons.

I think that they knew that Jennifer wasn't the last person to drive the car because the seat had probably been moved backward or forward but wasn't set to fit Jennifers height. The mirror could also have been moved. Evidentally the adbucter didn't think about moving the seat back to where it had been.

Beyond Belief

02-11-2007, 08:32 AM

I am also curious about the gym bag that they found. The POI is definitely carrying something. They supposedly found a gym bag in a dumpster. Why wasn't this shown to the public to help identify this guy.

I spent some time looking at the poi this morning. its possible that the back hand is carrying something that has FM on it. I have always thought he was carrying something with wires. I have found a FM automotive at 1119 S Orange Blossom Trail. Very close. It might pay to check with this place and see what type of sales happened that day. And if her engine was tampered with, her car may have been used to "jump" a broken down car.

drumstick

02-11-2007, 11:40 AM

The pic of the POI is tricky. The shadows behind the person create an optical illusion. If you look at the shirt sleeve and notice where it ends, the person's arm is at a 45* angle and appears to be carrying some kind of bag with a
handle ... briefcase, train case, gym bag, but definitely something with a handle and something with some weight to it. The person's posture suggests that whatever it is, is heavy for this person to carry.
Some have even suggested that it's a bucket of some type?
Whatever it may be, is long enough (wide enough) to obscure the waist and behind part of the trousers of the individual.

Any guess on the shoe size?

Myserty64

02-11-2007, 05:48 PM

I wonder if the POI is in fact the abductor? Logic tells me he has to be but of course there no certainity.
On the other side of the equation if the POI is not the abductor then what was he doing driving the car?
I'm am using 'he' because I believe the POI to be a male. My reason for this is I have the impression he is taking long strides.

I must admit though, and no matter how hard I try, I cannot make out if he is carrying anything. I would expect he had the car keys in one hand.

Myserty64

02-11-2007, 05:55 PM

Does anyone think the police might have a short list of suspects? Surely they must have suspicions about at least one individual.
There was a whisper around that there is some forensic evidence from the car but it doesn't match up to anyone on any data bases.
Does this mean the police have to wait until the abductor reoffends? To answer that myself, it appears that this is the case and the waiting game has begun.

leftcoast

02-12-2007, 11:49 AM

Mystery, Personally, I don't think that LE does have a short list of suspects. Assuming there was some physical evidence, such as DNA or prints left in the car, it certainly doesn't take one year to get a warrant to obtain prints and a DNA sample from potential suspects.

Anyone else find the timing of the Kesse's starting to call around looking for their daughter at around 11:00am, and calling friends, the apartment management, etc. and within an hour of these calls, Jenn's car just happens to be dumped less than a mile from her complex. The timing of this has always bothered me. WAS the POI somehow alerted that the heat was on, and got rid of the car?

Also, why do the two pictures of the POI have the exact same time? The time states it was 13:00:27. Assuming this means, 1:00pm and 27 seconds, why wasn't the second picture, 13:00:30? I've heard Drew Kesse state the camera takes pictures every three seconds. I sure hope that LE checked the camera/internal clock, to verify the clock is accurate, since that time is so vital to this case.

Time for LE to solve this case. I just don't understand why this case is so difficult to solve.

leftcoast

drumstick

02-13-2007, 08:47 AM

Anyone else find the timing of the Kesse's starting to call around looking for their daughter at around 11:00am, and calling friends, the apartment management, etc. and within an hour of these calls, Jenn's car just happens to be dumped less than a mile from her complex. The timing of this has always bothered me. WAS the POI somehow alerted that the heat was on, and got rid of the car?

You made an excellent point about the timing of the car being parked right after the phone calls were made.

Several points of timing are interesting as well.

The fact that Jennifer had just returned from a mini-vacation.
The fact that she had moved into her new condo Nov. 24 and disappeared
Jan. 24 (exactly two months) later.

www.findjenniferkesse.com (http://www.findjenniferkesse.com)

Bobbisangel

02-13-2007, 10:04 AM

You made an excellent point about the timing of the car being parked right after the phone calls were made.

Several points of timing are interesting as well.

The fact that Jennifer had just returned from a mini-vacation.
The fact that she had moved into her new condo Nov. 24 and disappeared
Jan. 24 (exactly two months) later.

www.findjenniferkesse.com (http://www.findjenniferkesse.com)

That is interesting. I would like to know how LE know exactly what time the car arrived in that parking lot? I know there was someone who lived there that called LE about Jennifer's car or at least that is what I seem to remember. Where LE going by when the caller left home and then returned? Maybe the car wasn't there when she left but was there when she returned?
Otherwise I can't figure out how they knew what time it was parked there.

How would the kidnapper know that LE had been called? I believe that the kidnapper is connected somehow to Jennifer's condo or else he never would have headed right back there. A worker is my guess...someone who had been watching her and then decided to grab her when she got back from her vacation. During that time she was gone his need/determination to grab her must have built and built. There is always the possibility of it being some single guy who lives there too. I think it was a worker though. Someone who could have taken her to his place and tied her up and gagged her so he could go back to work. It just makes sense to me.

Enrique Sparta

02-13-2007, 05:04 PM

Ah yes the million dollar question. how do the cops know when the car was dropped off? it can't be the person that called two days later on a thursday. That wouldn't be enough information to pinpoint within an hour or so when the car was left there. Also I believe a woman said she nearly backed into it the following day of Jennifer's disappearance, Wednesday, she hadn't noticed it before. Again this is not evidence the car was left at about 12 or 1 in the afternoon on Tuesday, the day of JK disappeared.

So how do they know? Obviously it ties in with the POI because the cops say the POI was present around the time the car was parked there. We keep asking over and over again, wish we could get an answer to that question. It's probably what we've already suspected....that there is another camera nearby that shows JK's car pull into that lot at the right time, but the person driving isn't visible. Perhaps this is from a camera across the street or whatever (I dunno that area well) or maybe there is another camera in the Huntington which is what has been the rumor (according to Myserty) That's a little puzzling though if that's the case. If there's another camera on the Huntington, I would find it odd that there is no better photo of the POI. Camera is nearby, car being driven, the POI gets out....even if the camera only shows the car being pulled into the lot, maybe a face to show us? I guess not. I'm so tired of that stupid photo we have now, it's useless. I have tried many many times to figure out something and I can only guess.

here is something I've been thinking about. If JK was abducted at her complex, why would the perpetrator drive her car around? All that is doing is risking somebody seeing you driving a car you're not supposed to and even more risky...leaving traces of YOU (the kidnapper) in the car. Then drop the car off a mile away? Surely whoever drove the car to the Huntington knew Jenn's car would eventually be found, it was only a matter of time. A couple of possible scenarios....Perhaps the perp got in when JK was starting the car and ordered her to drive wherever with a gun or some other way to control her. OR JK was abducted away from her apartment complex. Perhaps the kidnapper had no car.

Another thing, if JK was abducted in her parking garage or anywhere else in her complex, what was the kidnapper doing there? Doubtful that this guy would randomly walk into some apartment complex looking to abduct somebody and VOILA! An attractive blonde by herself. It may not even be possible for anyone to get in the parking area. Are there gates? If so, it would be even more difficult for just anybody to get in. If the cops know for a fact JK was abducted in her complex....there is a very high chance whoever did this was/is connected to that place somehow, be it a construction worker, somebody who lives there, or somebody visiting someone who lives there.

audrey77

02-13-2007, 05:45 PM

The majority of the appartment complexes with gates are very easy to get into- as long as you follow someone in quickly- they are unmanned. The complex I lived in (in Orlando) someone actually rammed the gate off track... and then picked it up and threw it to the side.

Plus, they have public access ways. Her area is very transient- with lots of tourists heading to the mall. Orange Blossom Trail (OBT as it is called) is not a nice place. Something like a 4 mile portion of it accounts for something like 70% of all calls of service (police) for the county (pardon me if the statistic is wrong... I have to look it up). Crazy. It's a haven for prostitution and drugs. When you go waaaaayyy south on OBT- you run into nice developements (Hunters Creek). But anywhere around I-4... and down to the Beeline (which is now called something different)- you're asking for trouble. They are trying to revitalize it.

I believe that they know more... and it may be best for them to wait it out until they have more information (like wait for a POI to screw up). Showing their hand of cards may not help them win a case... or keep leverage in negotiating on where to find Jennifer...

Does anyone know- who's the primary investigator? Orlando PD or Orange County Sheriffs?

Also... was the car wiped clean? I'm wondering if that's why they think there was a crime... maybe the carpets were missing, everything wiped down... etc...

Myserty64

02-13-2007, 07:08 PM

With regard to the POI, about a month after Jennifer vanished the head detective in the case, Det Ring said this:

'the investigation shows that someone other than Kesse drove her car, and he said police believe Kesse was in or near her car when she was abducted.'

There must be some evidence of someone other than Jennifer and most likely the POI driving her car.
Also Det Rings comment indicates to me the fact Jennifer was abducted at Mosaic.

Abductions happen in seconds and are usually violent or at least a deal of force is used. There is also the element of surprise.

Where is the POI today? Is the POI alive? Is the POI a lone operator or an accomplice?

Bobbisangel

02-14-2007, 04:59 AM

LE must know more than we do. I think by the way her car seat was pushed back they know she wasn't driving it. That would be my guess. Her parents said that they could tell that she had taken a shower that morning because the shower was still wet. So she got ready for work in the morning. There were different outfits on her bed that she had tried on and discarded while getting ready for work too and her makeup was scattered on the bathroom counter. I think someone was waiting for her when she went out her door or started to get into her car.

I don't know how anyone could identify anyone from that picture from the camera. To me it's hard to even tell anything about the person. Why buy cheap cameras that don't do any good? If you can't see what a person looks like then the camera isn't worth the money paid for it....why bother? Just think if there had been a really good camera there instead of a worthless piece of poop. They might just have the killer....maybe not though. Maybe that person was just walking by.

Myserty64

02-14-2007, 06:41 AM

Also on the picture of the POI Det Ring said this:

' That picture was very close to the time that the vehicle was dropped off at the apartment complex.'

Note that the real time the picture was taken was less than a minute after 12 noon.
It is obvious the police know when the car was dropped there.
Ed Miller from AMW said this re the POI:

’Sources tell us that this may very well be more than a person of interest, that this person caught on tape in this picture may very well become the suspect. Again, I`m not going to say anything that`s going to impede the investigation or could possibly impede the investigation..................’

I feel the POI was very involved in this abduction.

leftcoast

02-14-2007, 12:23 PM

Everybody brings up some good points.

I agree that the POI is a suspect. If the POI was simply just a person walking by when the car was dropped, he/she would be called a "potential witness", not a POI.

Also, I sure would like to talk to the members of Jenn's condo management team who went to check on her condo after the Kesse's called on the 24th. Supposedly, these two people actually went into Jenn's condo and saw nothing out of the ordinary, and then drove the lot looking for Jenn's car. Too bad, that somebody didn't shut down the condo complex and start writing down license plate numbers of cars at the complex, as I have a feeling that the POI's vehicle may have been parked in the complex. Remember, this is just my opinion.

I sure am suspicious of all the keys out there to Jenn's place. Just how many people had access to her condo key?

leftcoast

Myserty64

02-14-2007, 05:39 PM

I believe that when the Mosaic management people went to Kennifer's condo they found it to be locked. I don't remember reading where they gained entry to her condo. I remember thinking to myself at the time they might have held keys to the condos. They may have done so for any investment/rental condos but not for privately owned ones such as Jennifer's.
My understanding is Mr & Mrs Kesse along with Logan were the first ones to gain access to the condo and this was close to 3pm.
I stand to be corrected on any of this.

As far as keys to the condo go I did hear that the locks to Jennifer's condo were never changed. This would indicate that copies of keys any previous tenants had would open the door to the condo. If true this seems a bad slip up by a family that was both safety and security conscious. Whether the story about the locks is true or if it had a bearing on the abduction I have no idea.

leftcoast

02-15-2007, 03:47 PM

Anybody know what is currently being done to solve this case? It just seems to me that the entire strategy is to keep showing the picture of the POI, and hope somebody calls LE and breaks open the case. Call me stubborn, but, doesn't LE have any other strategy, or is it that we just don't know about it?

You know, there is a saying in the LE community. Cases are solved wearing out shoe leather, not sitting in an office waiting for a tip. Time to wear out some show leather, re-interview witnesses, go door to door in the neighborhood surrounding Jenn's condo, etc. JMO

leftcoast

UK Sleuth

02-20-2007, 04:05 AM

Firstly I would like to say hello to you all I just registered with this site mainly because I, like yourselves am extremely intrigued by these cases.

In an ideal world this would not be possible as these cases would not exist and the hell this poor family is going through I cant even begin to imagine however they do happen and I sincerely hope a miracle occurs.

Before anyone pulls out the ‘this could be someone close to the case following it online’ theory I will let you know I am English, 29, living just outside of London (hence UK Sleuth) and I have never visited the US, I hope to one day!

I have read up on this case as I have on other cases mostly in the UK(the disappearance of Suzy Lamplugh in 1986 you may be familiar with, another vanishing case and she has never been found although there is a strong theory)

I have read the proposed theory by Christopher Marlowe that Jennifer was abducted and swiftly put in a van which would explain a lack of evidence however the authorities have stated that the car is a crime scene.

I take issue with Christopher Marlowe’s theory.

My question is ‘Why on earth would the kidnapper drive Jennifer’s car around if she had been bundled into a van?’

1) There was the potential evidence left by getting into her car, fingerprints etc.

2) You could be exposed to somebody she knew seeing you in her car, a friend, a neighbour, a colleague.

3) The possibility of being caught on camera by CCTV as the POI was however the photos are beyond poor you cant even tell gender for definite although probably male.

Don’t forget these people are sick but very cunning surely you would stay well away from her car unless she was already in it!

The general consensus of opinion is that Jennifer was abducted in the morning at her complex based on the fact that she last spoke to her boyfriend at 10pm the previous night but this is an assumption, she may not have been able to sleep and got up in the night to run the errand, unlikely as she was safety conscious but possible and would tie in with the ‘totally vanished’ problem.

Also why would you leave your work clothes on the bed and go out in ‘sweats’ the following morning to deliver a package and then come home again, surely you would just deliver/post the package en route to work?

Or have I misunderstood that?

My theory is Jennifer went out in the morning to deliver the package/go to work got in her car and the abductor immediately jumped in the car and forced her at gunpoint to drive to a prearranged destination, his house probably.

It would also tie in that the abductor was at the apartment block and immediately pounced because according to the detail I have read Jennifer rang her b/f every morning in the car, that call never came so its fare conjecture to say that she was almost certainly abducted the minute she got into her vehicle.

What happened after that who knows apart from the fact that the car was dropped at lunchtime (I concur with the general theory that it is someone tied to the complex a resident, worker or former worker - the POI looks a bit like they are wearing dungarees – A decorator perhaps?)

They then have the short walk back to the condos to continue work where they may have been working individually therefore were not missed. (I don’t know the place obviously but it sounds like a lot of workers were around)

This was clearly a planned abduction, if Jennifer was as routine as she sounds it wouldn’t be hard to know when she would be getting into her car.

Could someone let me know what the ‘uneasiness’ was that she felt which she told her b/f?

I guess it was something vague therefore we don’t know and it may be a tragedy that her b/f didn’t dig deeper into what was bothering her but how was he to know the implications.

Maybe she was being harassed by someone and didn’t want to tell her b/f knowing what us men are like she might not have wanted a confrontation and thought she could deal with it herself.

What I think needs to happen (if it hasn’t happened already) is a thorough interrogation of all workmen/residents on that site that day – matched to any previous criminal record no matter how insignificant.

I’m sure not to many of the workmen/male residents would be 5ft 3 – 5in to cross reference to the POI

The police need to tell us why the car is a crime scene?

If they have prints then print all the workers and residents I’m sure they won’t mind – if they are innocent!

What harm can it do now? It’s been over a year and the investigation has clearly dried up.

The only other thing I can think is the police have a suspect who they believe is guilty but simply don’t have enough evidence.

Often in these cases the police know who is involved but proving it is another matter and they are waiting for him to re-offend/slip up.

If I have any of the facts wrong I apologise and please correct me but I have only recently read about this case.

leftcoast

02-20-2007, 12:08 PM

Welcome UK.

Hi, and welcome. Like you, I also live thousands of miles from Florida.

We are all hoping that LE does have a suspect. However, after one year, we are starting to get impatient. It seems to me that if LE does have a suspect, why can't they tie him to prints, hair, fiber, etc., left in the car? At least get the suspect on "unauthorized use of a car" and search his residence for more. It is difficult for me to believe this is a first time offender. Not to mention how easy it would be to take a photo of the suspect and compare it to the POI.

As for Jenn's uneasinesss, all I know is what has been reported on this and other sites. That she felt uneasy with the workmen. You see, after she moved in, varius workmen were required to enter her condo to fix inadequate craftmanship, etc. From what I have gathered, it was this traffic that made her nervous. I have not heard that it was one specific person, but, maybe somebody knows more. Regardless, people normally have good instincts about their safety, and it is definitely a red flag.

I agree with you about Marlowe's theory.

Thanks for your input and we all hope you have more to add.

left

UK Sleuth

02-21-2007, 04:15 AM

Thanks for the response left it really reads as such a tragic case(not that others arent) but such a young, vibrant girl with such a full life.

I understand the uneasiness she felt now perhaps it was related to the way one or more of the workmen were behaving perhaps coming on to her or asking her on a date and not taking no for an answer.

You generally get a feel for people and Im sure women have had workmen in their properties where they have felt totally at ease therefore something must have occurred.

JK sounds like an intelligent young woman and I dont think she would have felt uneasy over nothing.

Clearly the answer lies very local to her apartment as the amount of fuel left in JK car suggests it wasnt driven far before being dumped.

Unless the abductor refuelled? Dont know if thats a possibility however I suspect not as that would leave them open to more CCTV in the petrol station.

I really hope this case has some resolution for the families sake even if is not the outcome we all want.

Myserty64

02-21-2007, 07:14 AM

Hello UK Slueth it's nice to read some fresh viewpoints on the Jennifer Kesse mystery.
I too think the perpetrator came from the immediate area and I think Jennifer is close by too.
The general belief is JK was abducted either close to or just as she got into her car to drive to work. It appears there were no witnesses and there is no evidence in the public arena. However there just has to be some evidence from her car because we shed hair and skin wherever we go. I don't know if fingerprints were found but there was a whisper that there was.

BTW I have read up on the Suzy Lampugh case you mentioned and what a sad story it is. It seems the police are very sure who did this but haven't been able to get the evidence required.

UK Sleuth

02-21-2007, 07:44 AM

Hi Thanks for the welcome.

I think its pretty much been narrowed down having read all the thoughts to the fact that she was abducted and wherever she was taken to is fairly local the trouble is it doesnt appear there is much more to go on than that.

In that case she has either been held captive for over a year or is no longet with us, I hope the former of course however as with all these cases the longer they go on the less like a resolution.

The Suzy Lamplugh case was huge news here and although I was 9 at the time I remember it well she is probably the most well known missing person in the UK after Lord Lucan!!!

Yes there is a strong theory against a convicted Rapist/murderer although he has always denied it his ex girlfriend claimed he confessed to the crime and told her where Suzy is buried, he even taunted the police by personalisin a number plate with the date she vanished and her initials I believe.

Unless he confesses we shall never know!!!

Bobbisangel

02-22-2007, 04:39 AM

I think that Jennifer was abducted as she came out to get into her car. I think the abductor had her drive to his home where he taped or tied her up and left her until he got off of work. I don't think that he lives far from Jennifer's place. I'm sure he held a knife or gun on her.

I think he is either one of the workers, someone who has a girlfriend who lives at the complex or is married and lives there. He brought Jennifer's car back and left it not far from Jennifer's complex and the dog followed his scent back to Jennifer's complex ....where he had left his vehicle.

If Jennifer was tied up and her mouth gaged and taped she wouldn't have been able to go anywhere while the guy was at work. What happened after he returned is a big question. I don't believe that she is still alive after all of this time. That would be to big a risk for any man to take as she probably would have managed to get away at some point. We rarely ever hear of adults being held for months and months...although there have been a few that were kept underground, etc.

This is only my opinion of course but it makes the most sense to me just going by the timeline and the return of the car and the scent dog.

UK Sleuth

02-22-2007, 06:14 AM

I agree entirely and unfortunately I find it highly unllikely that she will be found alive if found at all.

The more I read about the case the more I feel that it is someone who has become obsessed with Jennifer, a stalker who may have been stalking her more than she realised if she realised at all.

This person may have approached her in some manner which produced the uneasiness but unbeknown to Jennifer the person may have been watching her for a while.

Something that has dawned on me is that the abductor had to know that Jennifer was going to be going to work that day.(If we assume that she was abducted getting into her car which most people agree on)

This sounds obvious however she had just come back from holiday so it could be quite possible that she was going to have the next day off to settle back in, unpack and recover.

I dont know about anyone else but I have often done this upon returning from holiday booked an additional day off.

Either the abductor got lucky on that and assumed she was going to work or they knew for definite she was going (Again if we assume this was a planned abduction)

If they knew for definite then it is someone who knew her movements intimately, would workmen know if she was going to work or not? I doubt it so that may focus it more on someone in the complex who perhaps she told she was going away and when she was coming home/back to work.

Obviously there are a lot of assumptions in here but the timing of it being when she just got back from holiday bothers me, whoever it was had to be very close to her daily life to even know she was back.

If you saw her going out to her car Monday - Thursday at 8am then you would be much more confident that she would be there at 8am on the Friday but if she hadnt been to work for a while then surely you would be less confident in her being there at that time unless you knew for sure that she would be.

The thing that could blow this out of the water is if it was an unplanned abduction and the person just saw their oppurtunity and went for it however I think most peoples gut feeling is this was planned.

Im just theorising here Im not saying I think im right but its another theory.

I think if we knew who knew for certain she was going back to work that day you could narrow down the suspect list however that is very hard because we dont know who if anyone Jennifer told.

The person would have to know that she was back and that she was going to work the next day wouldnt they?

Im sure a lot of us get back from holiday and then take a day off to recover from the travelling and get settled back in.

Im sure the authorities know a great deal more than they are revealing.

Myserty64

02-22-2007, 07:42 AM

Did Jennifer know her abductor?
Was the abductor a former boyfriend?
Was the POI merely dropping the car as a favor?
Is the POI in fact a female?
Was the abductor a registered sex offender?
Where was the POI walking to when he/she was caught on the security camera?

I have merely added these questions to the ones in the previous couple of posts.
This case is enough to push one over the edge!

BTW I wonder who got the polygraph tests and why?

UK Sleuth

02-22-2007, 08:29 AM

Indeed you could probably make a list of a hundred unanswered questions in this case which is why its such a mystery!

The only thing you can say for sure is she dissappeared at some point after 10pm the night before and there is POI seen walking past the apartments at the time her car was dumped and we dont even know what the gender is!

No wonder the police havent got any further with it.

This sort of thing drives your brain crazy lord knows what its done to her family and friends.

mattsmom

02-23-2007, 09:06 AM

I just returned home from a vacation in Orlando. I saw at least 5 of Jennifer's posters! It's wonderful that her searchers are still going so strong.

ms mystery

02-23-2007, 03:50 PM

I am living in Florida for the winter months and live not too far from Orlando. Every time I go there I look for someone who could possible be the POI. I think about Jennifer and her family every day. I have a daughter about the same age. I pray that she will be found..

Bobbisangel

02-26-2007, 04:25 AM

Someone who knew her schedule could be a worker at the complex, lives there or has a girlfriend there who he lives with. For a person to know that Jennifer would be working that day he would almost have to be a co-worker. On the other hand, didn't she get back the day before and drive straight to work? Someone could have seen her return from work the day before and see her carry things in related to work plus her luggage from the vacation. If they could figure out that she worked the actual day that she returned from vacation they would know that she would be working the following day...the day she was abducted.

Could have even been someone outside when she pulled up and said "hi" to Jennifer and said something about "I see you are back at work already" or something like that. We don't know if she ever spoke to the man outside in the parking lot.

Myserty64

02-26-2007, 06:03 AM

That is a very good point about her luggage and I have never seen it mentioned anywhere else.
It has been stated that Jennifer drove straight through to work from Fort Lauderdale on the Monday morning.
So when she got home from work on Monday evening she would have had to carry her luggage up from the car.
Would she have had to make more than one trip?
Who might have been watching?
Did she unpack that night?
Was there anything from the holiday left in her car?
We heard about the wet shower in her condo and the clothes laid out on her bed but we never heard about her holiday luggage.

I have a hunch there is something in this case that everyone including the police is overlooking. I haven't a clue what it might be though. Maybe I'm being unduly influenced by a case I just read in one of Ann Rule's books titled The Vanishing. That had an outcome that nobody had given any thought to at all.

Well done Bobbisangel for coming up with a new angle.

mattsmom

02-26-2007, 02:27 PM

What if she was making trips to and from her car unloading it. She could have left her condo unlocked while going out to the car and someone could have slipped inside.

Beyond Belief

02-26-2007, 09:22 PM

I would also like some information about how she spent that last evening up until the 10 o'clock phone call. Just when did she go to the store to pick up a few things she must have needed and when did she do her laundry?

UM&AMWfan

02-28-2007, 12:29 AM

So, the official LE theory is that someone forced Jennifer into her own car and then drove her off somewhere and then they parked the car at a different apartment complex a mile away from Jennifer's apartment?

Myserty64

02-28-2007, 05:59 AM

Alta

02-28-2007, 09:00 AM

I have a very good friend who reads about the case here but is unable to sign up due to email issues.He has asked me to post the following for consideration.

It is his belief the pictures taken of the Poi may have been taken at night around 1a.m. as opposed to an afternoon picture.This may be why the picture is so dark and just lightened around the picture of the poi.

He thinks the police may be holding back the evidence that this shot was taken at night time,as statements were made that she may have went out at night and the poi's clothes may be different colors.

leftcoast

02-28-2007, 11:48 AM

UM: Yes, it does seem that for some reason LE believes that Jenn was nabbed at her car.

Alta: Good point. I have actually entertained the same thought. There is something odd about the picture and lack of detail. Some of the picture does give the impression that the picture was taken at night. However, it could also be from a poor camera or an overcast day. In addition, why do the two pictures of the POI have the same exact time, 13:00:27? I still have not received a satisfactory explanation for this. We all know that LE does hold certain information back from the public, but, purposely putting out false information when you are looking for witnesses would border on incompetence. I certainly hope that a) the time is correct and b)if the time is not corrrect, that LE is not aware of this.

Thanks for bringing this up.

left

UK Sleuth

02-28-2007, 11:50 AM

So let me get this straight your friend is saying that the authorites have doctored the time on CCTV footage to suggest that the poi was there at 1pm in the afternoon but the poi was actually there at 1am, 12 hours earlier?

Does your friend have any idea why they would they do this?

Why would they not say we think Jennifer went out, did you see her?

Why put out pictures of a poi and see if anyone comes forward but tell them they were there at a different time?

You may have seen a/the poi at 1am but not think it relevant as the poi is in your mind walking past at 1pm that is relevant.

Sorry I dont buy your friends theory unless they want to elaborate?

UK Sleuth

02-28-2007, 11:54 AM

ALTA

I have just read my post above and it comes across as aggressive, apologies I didnt mean it to come across that way just going out shortly and wanted to get my post done in time.

Thanks

leftcoast

02-28-2007, 01:54 PM

Alta

02-28-2007, 02:39 PM

U.K no apologies neccesary..lol I can come across the same at times,you all seem so passionate about this case as my friend is.I am making him get a proper email so he can converse with you all here as he has some great theories.

I don't think he believes the time was doctored he is just throwing out another theory is all.What if the clock on the camera in question was wrong?I have a couple of digital clocks in my house that say a.m. when it is actually p.m.,call it laziness but i never bother to change them.

Maybe the police know the clock was set wrong but are just holding that back,as they do in most cases so they have something only the perp would know about.

Oh please don't shoot the messenger..lol.

Myserty64

02-28-2007, 05:46 PM

The camera the caught the POI is thought to be of a low quality.
Would this camera be capable of taking a photo of any decent quality at midnight?

That is a good point about the time stamp. I don't know what gives there.

Also there should be another photo of the POI to complete the sequence.
Where is it?

leftcoast

02-28-2007, 09:20 PM

Alta: Again, you bring up some excellent points. You would think that the first thing that LE did was the verify the accuracy of that clock, both date and time. LE has already admitted that the clock is one hour off (ahead), due to the fact the clock was not adjusted for daylight savings time. Hence, shouldn't we assume that LE verified whether it was a.m. or p.m?

Yes, we are all very interested in this case. We just can't imagine how this case can be unsolved. I don't believe in perfect crimes. But, I do believe we all make mistakes, and I'm sure the dirtbag made some mistakes. There has to be something that LE is overlooking, or an incorrect assumption.

Mystery: There is a third camera shot of the POI. I have watched it elsewhere. It doesn't show much. Just the POI about 6 feet or so to the right of the second picture, just past the palm tree. I don't remember if that picture had a time stamp.

left

UM&AMWfan

03-01-2007, 01:31 AM

I'm not sure LE has an official theory on this case (not for public scrutinity anyway).
However the head detective did say this one time............'and he said police believe Kesse was in or near her car when she was abducted.'

But the question is did the abductor take Jennifer with him in HER car or did the abductor take Jennifer with him is HIS car?

UM&AMWfan

03-01-2007, 01:33 AM

UK Sleuth

03-01-2007, 04:15 AM

UK Please answer this question. What is your take on both pictures of the POI having the same, exact time of 13:00:27? On your side of the pond, closed circuit tv appears to be used much more frequently, and I thought you would have greater knowledge. Am I missing something here? Please explain your thoughts.

thanks
left

Left we do have a lot of CCTV over here however I am afraid im not an expert, my thoughts were more about why would LE (see Im getting the slang!!) intentionally alter something which in my opinion could throw any potential witnesses off in a case where there is very little evidence.

However I have just been and looked at the pictures again on findjenniferkesse.com and if you go and look you will find something interesting.

There are 3 pictures on there not 2!!

The first one when the poi is to the left says 13:00:27, the second one of the poi to the right says 13:00:27 as we know however the third picture is the same one of the poi on the right hand side and the time says 13:00:28 which is one second later.

This picture is of poorer quality than the two released pictures so my guess is they have taken frame one and increased the quality/brightness and then used the same improved 'frame' for the second shot which then releases the two pictures showing the same time.

Go and have a look and see what you think, I believe where it says cam 3 is in a different place.

This would make sense, why go to the trouble of enhancing two pictures when you only need do one.

This might explain the same time problem, see what you think and let us know.

UK Sleuth

03-01-2007, 04:18 AM

Left

Just checked again Cam 3 isnt in a different place but the times are different.

If you click on the poi photos on the sight the one at the top is the poorer shot with seconds at 28 not 27

leftcoast

03-01-2007, 04:55 AM

Uk Thanks for answering. Basically, are you saying that the picture of the POI with the time stamp of 1300:28 is what the pictures look like without enhancement (except for the enhanced POI). If so, why are the pictures so dark. I would sure like to see other pictures from that camera, say one at 9am, noon, 6pm, midnight, etc, just to compare with the picture of the POI. I sure hope LE did this during their investigation.

Also, since you are from the UK, you may not know this. Orlando, Florida had over 49 murders in 2006, up from 22 in the prior year. Remember, thankfully, JK is not among these stats. Given this, I sure hope there are adequate resources to solve this case and approximately 10-15 unsolved homicides in Orlando from 2006.

thanks for looking into the question about the camera

left

UK Sleuth

03-01-2007, 05:15 AM

Yes thats what I meant and I agree it is weird that the pictures are so dark, maybe there is something to the theory that they are at night then, either that or the camera is ridiculously old and past it or had really low light settings.

You know what these things are like they get set up and then nobody touches them for years until you need them!!!

I would imagine it is quite bright in Orlando at lunchtime(unlike here!!!)

That is quite a large increase in murders isnt it?

Is there any known reason for this?
Are a lot of them drug/gang related?

Personally i think if they are people like JK cases should take priority but thats just my controversial opinion.

Hard to comprehend it over here although obviously murders occur being a much smaller country the numbers are a lot less.

It would be interesing to know the ratio of population vs Murders US/UK.

I suspect the US has a higher ratio, not sure why but perhaps the gun culture is different in that they are not readily available here but gun crime is certiainly on the increase in South London at the moment.

Myserty64

03-01-2007, 07:08 AM

I remember reading that one of Jennifer's parents said there was no sign of trauma in her car. This makes me think she was taken in the abductors car. I also believe she was most likely taken at gun point but I hasten to add these are just my hunches.
I must admit I do have trouble in seeing why her car was driven to Huntingdon On The Green apartments unless it was simply to cause confusion.

In 2004 there were just over 16,100 murders in the USA with slightly more than 6,000 being unsolved.
This means over six thousand people 'got away with murder' as the saying goes.

UK Sleuth

03-01-2007, 07:31 AM

Myserty64

03-01-2007, 07:50 AM

The timing of Jennifer’s abduction.

Are there any clues to be found in the timing of Jennifer’s abduction?

As most of us are aware Jennifer had just arrived back from a short vacation at St. Croix. I understand she was there for three days with her boyfriend who lives in Fort Lauderdale. She drove straight to her work place on the Monday morning.

On that same weekend her brother and some of his friends stayed at her condo. There may have been a party there on the Saturday night.

Who might have visited the condo over that weekend?

Who checked out what at her condo?

Who had access to any keys?

We know that one of the group left a cell phone there and it Jennifer was going to send it back to the owner.

Do young people leave their cell phone behind? Some people say ‘young people don’t leave cell phones anyplace,’ they are too important to them.

So, Jennifer has a short vacation; a group stays at her condo and the first morning she is back there she’s abducted.

Is her abduction some how linked to the events of the weekend?

leftcoast

03-01-2007, 08:16 AM

You both bring up good points. I think either one is logical.

However, I offer a possible scenario. I still think there is a chance that the abduction occured at night, although, early morning is the most obvious.

I still think the POI acted alone, and wanted to take the focus of the investigation away from the complex.

LE must have some type of evidence implicating the POI, otherwise, he would be called a potential witness.

I agree the most likely is that the POI pulled a pistol on Jenn, either at her apartment, or at her car.

I think the POI has a record, or a law enforcement wannabe, as this crime is much too clean for an amatuer.

Why didn't the POI dump the car at the mall across the street? Does the POI work at the mall? This, in my mind, shows a great amount of planning and knowledge of the neighborhood.

Given that Jenn's cellphone, her friends cellphone, and I believe her briefcase are missing, one does have to think she was on her way to work when this happened.

I still find it impossible to believe that a family member, friend, co-worker, etc, does not recognize that POI. However, I am still not satisfied with the height estimate.

I still believe the answer to this riddle has been called in to LE. Either they passed in error investigating him, or LE can't prove their case.

I am still upset that LE did not process JEnn's condo for evidence. I think a lot of answers were lost. Such as estimates of when the shower was used, examination of her sheets, searching her suitcase, looking at her alarm clock, etc.

One other thing: We keep on hearing that JK laid her MOnday work clothes neatly on a chair, yet, she left three sets of work clothes on her bed, as if she couldn't decide which set to wear. Was this her habit? or was she unpacking and was disrupted, or was this staged? I guess I have never known anyone who would lay clean suits on a bed and risk causing wrinkles.

I;m sorry, but, if anything like this ever happens in my family (god forbid), I can guarantee you that my family will run a parellel investigation, just as a precautionary measure. I would spend every penny I didn't have to find a loved one (I'm not implying the Kesse's wouldn't). I would also open an email account and allow people to send in tips anonymously. I just have some experience with cold cases, and I know first hand that LE does make mistakes from time to time. And let's face it, sometimes, Le just doesn't have the resources to check out every lead.

Sorry to ramble. I just want this case solved, just like everyone else here. I keep remembering her poor dad, saying he would give his life to find his daughter. It is hard to forget such a statement

left

UK Sleuth

03-01-2007, 09:04 AM

Lets test the ‘camera time is wrong’ theory.

For arguments sake we will say that the pictures of the poi were actually taken at 1am, which is why they are of such poor quality and have been brightened up.

Apart from why would LE do this unless it’s an error my next question would be…?

Is it 1am on 24th January or the 25th January?
(Is the camera 12 hours slow or fast?)

As I understand it JK’s car wasn’t found until the Thursday I think so if that CCTV of the poi is all we have and the time is wrong then it is conceivable that it is 1am on the 25th?

Okay starting with the theory that the time when the poi was snapped is actually 1am on the 24th this leaves a 3 hour window from when JK was last heard from by anyone else to the poi dumping the car.

This means in this three hours the abductor had to grab her, take her somewhere and either tie her up or dispose of her and then return the car to the complex.

JK was in her apartment, tired and ready for bed as we understand it so the chances of her going out are very slim, the apartment wasn’t broken into and there were no signs of a struggle therefore I cannot see how it could be 1am on the 24th unless she did voluntarily leave her building at that time of night.( I would discount this theory witht the additional info about the shower and the fact it looked like she was going to work.)

So in my opinion its not a 1am on the 24th shot.

If it is 1am on the 25th then this would make a bit more sense that the poi did not want to be seen driving JK car so thought it shrewder to dump it during the night.

I understand the theory behind this ‘Could the time be wrong’ but basically I think we are all clutching at straws due to the fact we have little else to go on.

The official site run by JKs family says 1pm, I don’t think they would be particularly pleased with LE if it turned out they had missed a detail so trivial as the camera time being wrong and as stated above it appears they acknowledged that it was 1 hour out due to daylight saving

My belief is quite simply that the camera picture quality is simply crap, its not even colour for a start but the time is correct.

I have to agree about the timing of the abduction this bothers me immensely my hunch is somehow this is linked to her being away/the party, with regard to the cellphone I lost mine last sunday so I wouldnt read too much into that it does happen particularly if your drunk at a party!

I do hope that LE have scoured footage of all CCTV over a large area in order for another shot of the car and poi, maybe there isnt that much of it in Orlando???

We have loads of it here, Big Brother is watching us all the time.

If they have done and found nothing it suggests the abductor took JK very local from her home.

Valiant

03-01-2007, 12:46 PM

I still think there is one reason the car was left where it was (and supposedly a scent trail could be followed to her condo). I think someone tried to take the car back to her place (you've got to get rid of it somewhere) and the security gate at the Mosaic prevented the car from being dumped there. It probably just happened someone entered the Huntington and they were followed in. The perp then strolls over to try to find a way to dump the car where he wants, but can't and leaves it at the Huntington.

The Mosaic supposedly has a security gate (without cameras) and a security system in each unit.

This all assumes the car early, long before everyone was looking for Jeniffer.

leftcoast

03-01-2007, 07:26 PM

Uk I agree the most likely scenario is that LE has the time correct. This would be very easy to verify, and even Barney Fife would check the time and date on the camera. As a matter of fact, LE must have verified the time, otherwise, how would they have known that the clock is one hour off?

As for the friend leaving the cellphone. I think that is just a coincidence. If it was him, he would have been nailed the first day. He was a family friend, and he would have been recognized as the POI. IMO

If that dog scent is correct, whoever pulled this off, is extremely familiar with that property and neighborhood. They took the backroad, jumped a fence, etc. This is somebody who lives, or works at the complex. IMO.

How many men who are only 5"3-5"5 could live and work at that complex. Why not just run a DMV check by address.

left

UM&AMWfan

03-01-2007, 08:17 PM

I feel that she was taken at gun point in her own car, if someone got in the car and held her at gunpoint then ordered to drive somewhere then I dont see why there would be any sign of a trauma.

At gun point you would just do what you were told you wouldnt be likely to fight back.

It doesnt make sense for the perp to go anywhere near her car if she was abducted in his car and LE have stated that her car is a crime scene(although we know not why!)

If you are correct and it was the perps car she was abducted in then that would point more to an accomplice as you would need two drivers.

You would be more than bonkers to go back to the apartment to get her car after driving off in yours as you would risk running into people looking for her.

If your theory is right then maybe the poi is the accomplice, again its all ifs, buts and maybes in a case with such little evidence.

All people can do is keep testing theories and hopefully somebody will have a Eureka moment.

My theory is she was abducted getting into her car in the morning at her apartment, was made to drive to a house, dont want to think what happened after that but I dont believe she is still alive, and if she isnt may god give her family some closure on this awful experience.

UK Stats: 765 Homicides in 2005/6(so about 380 a year although that figure in cludes the 52 deaths in 7/7 Tube and bus bombings)But weren't there some people around since other people must have been getting ready to go to work?

So, if Jennifer resisted is the attacker really going to try and shoot her in broad daylight with other people around? He would KILL someone just because she refused to drive with him?

I think Jennifer may have stood a fairly good chance if she resisted or at least better than the odds are now because ther rule is NEVER LET THEM TAKE YOU TO A 2ND LOCATION. Because once you get there you are dead almost for sure.

So, if Jenn was abducted in her car then where is ANY evidence like fingerprints, shoeprints, hairs, foreign fibers, etc. etc.???

Myserty64

03-01-2007, 08:35 PM

I wonder if Jennifer was about to put something in the trunk of her own car that morning.
If this was the case she may have been bundled into the trunk of her own car and the car keys whipped off her.
If this was the case there must have been finger prints on the inside of the trunk lid.
Perhaps she was overpowered and knocked unconscious and then put in the trunk.

Try as I might I cannot imagine her riding quietly in her own car even if it was at gunpoint. Jennifer was an intelligent young lady and would have surely known she was going to be in real trouble when she got to wherever her destination was.
The roads would have been busy at that time of the morning and I think she would have made a desperate bid for freedom under any circumstances and perhaps at a red traffic light.

Finally, I guarantee all of us would love 20 minutes with the police file on this case. I know I would!

leftcoast

03-01-2007, 09:22 PM

UM & Myst. I agree. Everyone seems to conclude that Jenn was attacked at her car. There are other scenarios.

How do we know it wasn't a neighbor, security, etc. he knocks on her condo door and overpowers her. Then, moves the car to throw police off, and walks back to the complex. This scenario could explain everything.

It seems to me that LE has hinted it has video of Jenn in her car with another person after 10pm on the 23rd. Anybody else remember this? If so, are they bluffing? If not, why not release this video and hope for more tips. why not release the video from the second camera at HOTG? At this point, what is the downside to releasing more clues?

I don't understand why LE won't release more clues. UNless they have the perp. under surveillance, there is a safety risk to the community until this case is solved. People who commit crimes like this are not one time offenders.

Let's face it, this case is cold.

left

Bobbisangel

03-02-2007, 12:22 AM

This case is just one big puzzle. If there was any evidence on or in the car it must not have matched anyone in the data base or someone would have been arrested by now. How could a stranger get into someone's car and not even leave a fingerprint or hair unless he wore gloves or wiped the car down before he left it in that parking lot.

That was no evidence of a struggle in Jennifer's condo. You would think if something happened there there would be something left for LE to find.

I think it is easy to visualize fighting a person who has a knife or gun pointed at you or at least doing something to get away from the person but I just wonder if when a person is taken by surprise by a gun or knife if you don't just freeze unable to do anything. I know we are told not to get in the car if at all possible because you will likely end up dead but.....I don't honestly know how I would react if it actually happened to me. Hopfully I would fight like mad.

Myserty64

03-02-2007, 06:36 AM

There must have been human hair retrieved from the car; after all we are shedding hair all the time. I don't know about finger prints but there was word of a partial print at least. I remember reading that the car was a bit 'untidy' inside as it were. I'm sure most of our cars get like this; I know mine does and then I give it a spring clean!:)
At least it seems the POI ,who dropped the car, didn't go to the trouble of cleaning it out.

Yes, this case is a complete mystery. How can someone just vanish off the face of the earth?

On Jennifer's condo: I think most of the condos near to hers were unoccupied. I wonder if they were all locked up?
I recall Greta van Susteren, when visiting Mosaic, observed 'that it would be quite easy for someone to nab her going to her car.'

I have followed this case for over a year and it is so sad that Jennifer's case seems to be completely stalled.

leftcoast

03-02-2007, 02:47 PM

Bobbi: You bring up a good point. Most of us have never been the victim of a serious crime, and we have no idea how we would react if somebody pulled a gun or knife on us. Our initial instinct would be to try and talk our way out of the situation. Especially, if we knew the person and thought he or she was just having a bad day or acting irrational.

As for hair or prints in that car. My opinion is that the POI is wearing something on his head, most likely a hat. That would reduce the chances of losing hair. As for prints, you have to think the POI left a print. However, even if there was print left, if the POI has never been printed, then his prints may not be on file. I would not rule out the possibility that the POI wiped down the car of prints either. Every person who has ever been arrested is aware of fingerprints and their evidentiary value.

Why are the Kesse's so patient with LE on this case? Do they know something we don't know, such as a potential suspect has been identified? OR are they just giving LE the benefit of the doubt?

Just my opinion

left

UM&AMWfan

03-02-2007, 06:00 PM

Since some of you guys have mentioned there is video, etc. that the police are not releasing is there any chance that there is a cover up/conspiracy by LE in this case?

I don't see how since I recall the Dateline NBC segment when they interviewed LE and they seemed like normal sincere cops but then again even if authorities were covering up in any case they would still appear sincere to pull off a good conspiracy.

But there doesn't seem to be any reason for a cover up unlike the Johnia Berry case in Tennessee where the sheriff refuses to cooperate with national media and the roomate still seems suspicious.

This case really wants to make you :banghead:

leftcoast

03-02-2007, 10:03 PM

UM; No, I personally don't think there is a conspiracy in this case.

On the other hand, when investigations are done in secret, such as this one, how do we know that the case is unsolved due to "lack of clues" or because of LE errors. Trust me, I'm not here to bash LE. It is just that I have witnessed LE make mistakes in cases due to tunnel vision, lack of effort, lack of resources, etc. In these cases, we all think it was the perfect crime, when it fact it was otherwise. I propose that in order to solve this case, and for the safety of other women in Orlando, that this case should be opened to the public. After all, it is the public who will end up giving the clue to identify the perp.

I just don't like secrecy. Public safety should come first.

left

Myserty64

03-02-2007, 10:44 PM

The first 48 hours in cases like the Jennifer Kesse case are critical. That is why the police use all resources possible during this period.
However in this instance the investigation didn't get going until her car was found on the Thursday and the 48 hours had ticked by.
They were probably treating Jennifer as a possible runaway or someone who needed some space for those first two days.
The frustrating aspect of this case is everything seems to have conspired to make the case practically unsolvable.

Nobody has seen anything so there are no witnesses.
There is no evidence of a violent assault.
Jennifer can't be located.
In both pictures the POI's face is obscured by gate posts.

If the police have forensic evidence, (which I'm sure they do) then they will have to wait until the perpetrator's DNA or fingerprints appear on data bases.

drumstick

03-03-2007, 09:21 AM

The first 48 hours in cases like the Jennifer Kesse case are critical. That is why the police use all resources possible during this period.
However in this instance the investigation didn't get going until her car was found on the Thursday and the 48 hours had ticked by.
They were probably treating Jennifer as a possible runaway or someone who needed some space for those first two days.

That's exactly why I believe we need a special task force for the "missing".
People trained to approach "missing" 911 calls with an urgency in the those first 48 hours.

If You or anyone you know has any information about the disappearance of Jennifer Kesse on Jan. 24, 2006, please call the tip line set up just for You to make that call.

1-407-772-2162 or 1-800-423-8744

www.findjenniferkesse.com (http://www.findjenniferkesse.com)

Myserty64

03-03-2007, 06:28 PM

Perhaps all missing persons should be treated as 'missing, endangered' from the very beginning.

It was about eleven days before the POI photos emerged. That is a long time in what is a very serious case.
The POI /perpetrator had more than enough time to get right out of the area.

Anyway, drumstick makes a good point.

leftcoast

03-03-2007, 11:20 PM

Yes, in a perfect world, there would a "missing person" task force. But, on the other hand, I thought I saw a quote that there were something like 3,000 people who were called in as missing in Florida in 2006. IF that number is correct, that is a whole lot of people. I think some common sense should go into who is considered endangered versus runaway's

I think the number one problem in this case was that her disappearance was not taken seriously until her car was found. Given her background, just buying a condo, her stable life, lack of drug use, and the fact that her cellphone went straight to voicemail, I think this case should have raised red flags immediately. I've said it before, and I know everyone is tired of hearing it, but, why not error on the side of caution, consider the possibility that a crime occured, and seal off the place (the condo) where Jk was last known to have been. Just in case.

Does anyone know this answer. Did the police actually go door to door in Jk's complex on the 24th, looking for leads? I know the Kesse's put fliers on all doors in the complex on the 24th.

And why did it take so long to get that picture of the POI to the public?
And why haven't there been any press releases, press conferences, etc. from the Orlando police in months, related to this case?

left

UM&AMWfan

03-04-2007, 08:45 AM

As a matter of fact, I think it is police policy all over the USA to wait 24 hours if an adult has been reported missing or wait 24 hours till their last known location. In 24 hours a perp. has plenty of time to get rid of a body and maybe even get out of the area.

On the other hand, I heard there is a pretty significant percentage of people who are reported missing who are not missing at all. They either ran away, went away without telling anyone, etc.

But like left coast said red flags should have been raised immediately in Jennifer's situation considering her background and lifestyle and LE should've started within a few hours.

But even if the waited a few days to get inside Jennifer's condo the evidence in there wasn't comprimised in any way, right?

DNA, fingerprints, hairs, etc. will still be there for quite a while so the public wasn't going inside Jennifer's condo to contaminate the crime scene so LE should have still been able to analyze Jennifer's condo thoroughly, right?

drumstick

03-04-2007, 09:40 AM

From www.findjenniferkesse.com (http://www.findjenniferkesse.com/)

February 24, 2007 Kesse Family Letter

Another month has now gone by making it 13 very long months since we last saw, hugged, kissed and spoke with Jennifer. Time does not heal all wounds when there are no answers. We, her family and friends are as strong as ever if not stronger and committed to doing everything humanly possible to find her and bring her home. We have said this time and time again; however the investigation into Jennifer's abduction is still VERY ACTIVE. Leads continue to come in almost daily and we need them to continue so please if you know anything - anything, and we know someone knows something, do not discount it and call any one of the contact numbers listed on this site, Police, Crimeline, family tipline, a lawyer, the Clergy or anyone you trust to pass on information, we are desperately seeking to end Jennifer's disappearance. No one deserves what she is or has gone through and it should not be tolerated by any society. To this day, there is still an abductor(s) loose amongst us and they need to be found and taken off our streets. If not, WHO WILL BE NEXT?

If you do know information and you are not coming forward you are considered just as guilty as the person(s) who has committed this heinous crime. It is not too late to make a difference in bringing Jennifer back home to us, make the call - NOW! There is hope for those involved. It's not too late for them to show remorse for their doings and come forward. Yes, it will be the hardest thing you have ever done - giving information or coming forward - however Jennifer is a human being, not an object, and needs to be freed or found, SIMPLY LEAVE HER IN A PUBLIC PLACE AND GO! We are not going to back down or go away nor will the authorities! It's only a matter of time, so make that time NOW! There are still reward monies available for Jennifer's whereabouts or The Person of Interest's whereabouts.

We thank you all for continuing to keep Jennifer in your hearts, minds and public awareness!

Drew, Joyce, Logan Kesse & Rob Allen
_________________
Help Find Jenn... www.findjenniferkesse.com (http://www.findjenniferkesse.com/)

Beyond Belief

03-04-2007, 07:21 PM

Enrique Sparta

03-04-2007, 07:24 PM

every time a baby is born, his or her DNA sample should be taken and stored in a large database. That way every time there is evidence at a crime scene, the DNA will be collected, tested, and you have your perpetrator(s). This should've been started long ago.

-Still waiting for why the POI is a POI. I know it's probably because of another camera showing the car being dropped off at that time or some other reason but I wanna know for sure. I hate that useless picture. Memo to Orland Police, tell us why the POI is a POI and maybe the public can help you. Release the other pictures and/or tell us why this POI is important to Jennifer Kesse's case.

-I might be wrong on this, but didn't the cops state early on that Jennifer was abducted? Myserty do you know? You've followed the case from day one. If so, then the cops have a lot more info because they wouldn't rush into judgment after such a short time. They keep the possible scenarios (kidnapping, murder, run away, amnesia, out of town, want to disappear and start a new life, etc) open until there is reason to believe foul play was suspected. After all the overwhelming majority of "missing" people come back shortly and are found safe. They must have some evidence, fingerprints from the car, blood, something that they're hiding. They came to the conclusion that foul play was involved awful quickly.

-I still think there's a high probability Jennifer was abducted while walking to her car on the morning of the 24th or while getting into her car. So do the cops who have all the information and Jennifer's family. She was last heard from on the phone with her boyfriend at about 10 PM. Did the boyfriend say Jennifer was calling to say goodnight and she was in bed? Probably, she was probably really tired since she went straight to work following vacation. And also did she have problems sleeping? Was she known to get outta bed in the middle of the night or be a night person? Ask her family, friends, boyfriend. You could probably eliminate the nighttime hour abduction thing with these easy to answer questions.

Where her car was parked, is it surrounded by gates? or can anybody get in? Hard to believe the kidnapper was somebody not related to that complex in anyway and was just someone walking down the street. It was either somebody from that complex be it a person living there, a guest of a person living there, a construction worker, a contractor or any other homebuilder. OR somebody that knows JK away from that place.

-I wonder if they checked surveillance cameras all around the area. Strip malls, restaurant parking lots, store lots, is it possible to check the cameras from stoplights? You know the ones that take a picture of you and your car running a red light? Are those on at all times? Check all pictures of cameras in the area.

leftcoast

03-04-2007, 08:59 PM

-Still waiting for why the POI is a POI. I know it's probably because of another camera showing the car being dropped off at that time or some other reason but I wanna know for sure. I hate that useless picture. Memo to Orland Police, tell us why the POI is a POI and maybe the public can help you. Release the other pictures and/or tell us why this POI is important to Jennifer Kesse's case.
.
Bingo!!!!!!! Agree, and while they are at it, show the pictures from the other camera at HOTG. Then, maybe this case will be solved.

left

Myserty64

03-05-2007, 06:24 AM

I wondered why the POI was a POI for a long time too. The way I saw it this guy just happened to walking past the gate so what was the big deal?
The first thing that was pointed out to me was 'he was on private property.'
That still didn't do it for me because there had to be more to it.

I wonder what is being withheld by the police and why. Actually the why part is understandable because some information that only the perpetrator could know is held for the time when a suspect is being questioned.
As for the 'what' part,well, the police have already stated that they know Jennifer was not the last person to drive her car.
They have also stated that the POI was photographed about the same time her car was parked/dropped.
The way I see it the ducks are lined up in a row for the POI to be the guy who parked the car.
There is a camera overlooking the area where Jennifer's car was parked so there must be photographic evidence.

It does concern me that this case might not have been handled as well as it could have been.

Myserty64

03-05-2007, 07:01 AM

UK Sleuth

03-05-2007, 07:13 AM

Regarding the poi picture the thing I dont get is if LE have a picture of him/her parking the car from the camera over looking the parking lot then why dont they release it?

Those two pics they have released are dreadful quality so if they have any other pictures surely they are better or at least of equal quality.

If they know what time the car was dropped then the only way I can imagine they know this is they have footage of it being parked.

The only other scenario I can think of is the footage of the car being dropped doesnt actually show the driver which I find hard to believe.

Myserty64

03-05-2007, 07:40 AM

Is it possible the pictures of the car being parked are so poor in quality they make the published POI pictures look like they are high definition! Just wondering.

UK Sleuth

03-05-2007, 08:48 AM

Indeed!

They must be good enough to suggest that the poi and the person who parked the car are one and the same.

If that is the case then I think they should say that the poi parked the car and thus remove any doubt.

The way it looks at the minute is they know the car was parked there at around that time from some other source and the only person they caught on CCTV at that time was the poi hence they became of interest but cannot say for sure they parked it.

This case is baffling, not only the dissappearance but the selective details released into the public domain

leftcoast

03-05-2007, 01:44 PM

I notice in the Kesse Family Letter that was re-posted on page 5 of this thread it says; 'the investigation into Jennifer's abduction is very active and leads continue to come in almost daily.'
Whilst I admire the courage and optimism of Jennifer's family I have to wonder where this case is today.

Are there really new leads coming in frequently after over 400 days?
Are the case files getting rather cold?

I cannot understand the silence from the police; they haven't released anything in months.
I believe this case needs a good investigative reporter to see what can be uncovered about the way this case has been handled and what could have happened to Jennifer.
Maybe a good PI would be handy too.
Excellent points. If all of these leads are coming in daily, then why isn't this case solved?

Also, where in the world are the television news stations and their reporters? WE had a similar story where I lived, and it received constant attention. Finally, a newspaper put a picture of the most likely suspect in the newspaper, and the public pressured the FBI to dig up his newly installed patio, and we all know what they found. But, if it wasn't for the public getting on LE, as well as local media, I don't know if that case would have been solved.

I think the local television stations and newspapers should be ashamed as their poor coverage. Stop mickey mousing around, and send out an investigative reporter to get more publicity for this case.

fed up

left

Bobbisangel

03-05-2007, 05:51 PM

I personally don't think that they have anything. They can tell that Jennifer wasn't the last person to drive the car because of the distance between the gas pedal and the seat. And probably the way the mirrors was arranged.

If they got any prints from the car they must not have anyone in the data base that matches them.

That picture that they put out there from the camera was so bad that I doubt anyone will ever be identified from it. What is the point of having camera's if they don't work any better then that?

How could they be getting in that many leads weekly? I've never heard of a case this old where the tips just keep flowing in by the hundreds. I think LE is trying pacify the public because they have nothing on this case and people want to hear that they have at least something.

Myserty64

03-05-2007, 07:23 PM

Good post leftcoast.
After the first couple of weeks the media coverage of Jennifer's disappearance was abysmal. I remember looking at the on-line version of the Orlando Sentinel on a daily basis and as the weeks went by there was barely a mention of Jennifer Kesse.

Truth be told I wondered whether Jennifer's parents had all their eggs in one basket by leaving the investigation to the police.
Would it have been worthwhile to hire a good PI in the early stages when the case had already stalled?
I'm not criticising Jennifer's parents in any way here and I must say I'm not renown for my patience.
If this had happened to my daughter I would have been screaming from the roof tops and today I would be wanting answers not excuses.

Enrique Sparta

03-05-2007, 09:12 PM

ha BobbyAngel

if what you say is true, the picture is even more meaningless and the cops are freaking morons

"oooh a guy walking by in the parking lot where JK's car was found. It must be him! SUSPECT!"

Myserty64

03-05-2007, 09:49 PM

The POI did park the car.

leftcoast

03-05-2007, 10:33 PM

The POI did park the car.
Mystery: Do you know something we don't, inside information from LE? or are you just putting together the pieces of the puzzle?

thanks for the compliment. I am just so sick and tired of the media in this country. Anna Nicole Smith on Greta Van Susteran every single night. I am losing respect for Greta. She is turning into the National Enquirer on tv. and don't get me started on the local tv stations and newspaper (from what I have seen on the internet).

left

ps Anybody else notice this? When Natalie Holloway went missing, all of us American's said, "what a poor investigation" down in Arruba, if that was in the states, the case would be solved. Well, we have a similar case, and a picture, and we have nothing. So, I guess we aren't as smart as we think we are.

Myserty64

03-06-2007, 06:00 AM

With regard to the POI there have been rumors around but mostly I have deduced the POI must have dropped the car by what I have read.
For instance there was a lot of importance given to finding the POI both by the police and the Kesse family.
I used to wonder why this was but now I believe that right from the beginning there are people who have known the POI was the one who parked her car at Huntington apartments.

It is worth noting that there was a clue to this when Ed Miller from AMW was on the Nancy Grace show in Feb 2006: (he is referring to the POI here)

MILLER: Well, you know, they`re not telling me a whole lot, and of course, what they do tell me, I want to be very careful to not interfere with the investigation. But investigators have indicated to me that they are fairly certain that this person, the timing is very close to when that car was discovered. And therefore -- and again, I`m not saying I know what happened, but it could be a fingerprint on the fence, could be a fingerprint on the car. They`re just not saying for sure. But they do believe there`s something more to this person of interest than simply meets the eye.

MILLER: Yes, absolutely. But there could be other indications. You know, perhaps the seat was pushed back or whatever. But they are saying for sure that Jennifer did not get that car there. Somebody else got that car there, whether it`s fingerprints or something else, or you know, it`s some other evidence that was left there.

I added the bold text.

UK Sleuth

03-06-2007, 06:25 AM

I notice your extract says 'the timing is very close to when that car was discovered' I thought the car wasnt discovered until the Thursday???

That sounds like a slip/hint to 'the timing is very close to when that car was dumped there'

It seems to me that LE are certain that the car was dumped at that time which is why poi is poi and they know that the he/she dumped it there.

Therefore either somebody saw the poi dump the car or they have it on CCTV, either way I think that should be made public.

I would assume that from the time of 10pm on the 23rd(when JK Was last heard from) until discovery of the car on Thursday the 26th that the poi would not have been the only person to walk in front of that camera.

If they didnt know when the car was dumped and the poi dumped it then you would think that every person who walked past that camera would be a poi.

Myserty64

03-06-2007, 07:36 AM

You are right UK. He meant when the car was dropped, not discovered.
The police know the POI parked the car there but I can't understand the secrecy about it.

UK Sleuth

03-06-2007, 11:49 AM

I dont understand it either.

I dont want to get into criticising LE because they have a tough job to do but sometimes I wonder how thorough investigations are due to resources,.

Certainly I have found this to be the case in studying cases in the UK, its well known the Yorkshire Ripper would have been caught a lot earlier if lines of enquiry had been followed up and not shut down early.

As appalling and distressing as the case is for the family it is just another in a long line of missing people and as I think has be hinted on here before the answers could have been overlooked by the authorities.

If you read up about many cases where there have been botched investigations you do start to question the authorities more than you actually like to do so as in general we assume they are doing the job 'properly'.

Im not saying they are inept, Im saying at times perhaps the resource does not allow them to be competent enough.

They may have another shot of the poi but feel that is no better than what they already have and just settled for the two shots we have, my argument is you never know what other people will see looking at a picture, at a different angle it might ring a bell with someone so if they have then release it.

The case is such a mystery that it doesnt help when the authorities are evasive with their detail, if its not another pic of the poi and a witness then tell us a witness saw them, what harm can that do?

If you dont give people the facts they will make up their own story.

shwa

03-06-2007, 06:03 PM

Hi im Alta's friend. It's good to see a healthy curiousity in this case. Like alot of people i started almost at the beginning of her abduction and have been following it ever since. One of our biggest clues is the photo of the POI, i've looked at it a thousand times trying to find more than a slightly blurred person, partially obstructed by a fence.

Recently i decided to look at the photo as if it was taken at night.The only thing against this theory is the time stamp on the camera, which could be wrong. Either it was set wrong or the camera doesn't function properly. there is actually 3 versions of the photo. #1 the dark pic with the lightened oval to enhance the poi #2 the completely lightened pic, showing the poi on either side of the gate
#3 the color photo of the poi.
Why would they darken the photo around the poi and leave the light oval when there is a light photo of the poi already? That doesn't make alot of sense to me. I believe the photo was taken at night and then the oval around the poi was lightened to give a clearer view of the poi.

shwa

03-06-2007, 06:27 PM

leftcoast

03-06-2007, 08:23 PM

Mystery: I agree with everything you said about the POI. In addition, I remember a quote from, i think it was Barbara JOnes, or something like that, of the Orlando police dept. who said , paraphrasing, that this person (the POI) was simply not somebody who just happened to be walking by at the time the car was dropped. IF the POI was a witness, he would be called a witness, and the Kesse's wouldn't have his picture above their computer, trying to figure out who it was, since it would be impossible for them to know this person, if he was simply a witness.

Shwa: Everything you have said makes sense. I have actually had arguments with a buddy about whether or not the picture was taken at night. I thought it was taken at night, he said otherwise, and with the time stamp, I assumed I was wrong. If you think about it, dumping a car at night, makes more sense, and also explains why there are no witnesses. However, if LE screwed this up, somebody will be emptying parking meters from now until pension time. Of course, we will never know, because LE usually keeps mistakes under wraps.

UK: My theory on this case is follows: I think, just think, that LE thought they would put the picture of the POI on tv, and that person would stupidly come forward (assuming he would be noticed), and say yes, it was me walking by. Then, once, they had the POI admit it was him in the picture, LE would pull out the other camera angle which shows him parking the car and nail him for the crime. That is my take. Since it didn't work, time to release everything, IMO

left

leftcoast

03-06-2007, 08:42 PM

To view all 3 pics of the poi go to ... jenniferkesse.com ... scroll half way down the page, and on the left side click on a title called ... Aerial view of the scene .
You will see all 3 pics plus a pic of her car parked at HOTG. This photo was taken from a camera on a post i'd say about 15ft. high, and could have taken a photo of the perp while they were parking the car.
On the photo of the POI, in the lefthand corner it says ... cam3 ... which makes me think there are 3 cameras.SHWA: Good job. I just wanted to share a few things. from what I have learned, the color picture of the POI was most likely from somebody who simply colored in the appropriate colors on the photo. At least that is what others have said.

As for the picture of Jenn's car parked. It is my assumption, just an assumption (correct me if I'm wrong), that the picture of Jenn's parked car was taken by a news crew or police on one of those boom camera's or helicopter. If you look at the picture, the camera is actually high above the power lines, which makes me think it was a temporary shot, versus a fixed camera. Notice how this picture doesn't have a time stamp, or say camera on it. Again, just my take. If anyone has an opinion, please share. Hence, it is my opinion that this camera angle was "not" available at the time JK's car was dumped at HOTG.

The camera which took a picture of the POI is located in the perch of the poolhouse. 180 degrees from this vantage point, is another camera, which points toward the parking spot where Jk's car was parked. It is this camera, which I beleive is focused on the second gate to the pool area (the other camera is, in my opinion focused on first gate to the pool area, probably for insurance reasons, security) may or may not have caught jk's car being parked. It all depends on the angle of the camera. I, however, believe it would have at least showed some of the car being parked. don't forget, there is a building next to the pool, which may have also impacted the photo.

left

shwa

03-06-2007, 09:59 PM

I believe the pic was colorized also. If you notice the car in the photo, you will see a small tree blocking the view, it is a whiteish color and not the green it should be. This make me think that who ever colorized it forgot to color the tree.

There is another camera in the pool house, but it's difficult to tell if can be focused on the spot where Jennifer's car was parked. The camera that took the pic of the car is on a pole, that is in the pool area with metal rods extending over the pool fence. I believe this is the third camera.

leftcoast

03-06-2007, 10:18 PM

The camera that took the pic of the car is on a pole, that is in the pool area with metal rods extending over the pool fence. I believe this is the third camera.Are you 100% sure of this? Have you seen this camera in person? or is this your opinion?

left

shwa

03-06-2007, 10:19 PM

leftcoast

03-06-2007, 10:26 PM

In the photo of the POI, we can see the gate to the pool and in the middle of the gate there is a sign, or better stated ,the back of a sign.On the other side of the sign it has the days and times for use of the pool. The very last sentence on the sign says ... Security Camera in use ... Would a perp walk purposely in front of a security camera.

Jennifer's mother once said ... the poi was in the parking lot when the car was being put there ... i believe that the poi had walked passed the perp in Jenn's car and the OPD want to get a description from him.If true, then why isn't the POI called a "potential witness". A "person of interest", means that the individual may be a suspect, and the eventual perp. in a case.

Please answer the question about the camera. I would really like to know, once and for all, if anyone has physically seen this camera. thanks

left.

shwa

03-06-2007, 10:29 PM

leftcoast

03-06-2007, 10:36 PM

In the photo marked "D" which is the color photo of the car, you can see what looks like a wooden telephone pole, and attached to it are metal rods that cross each other. My guess is that this is what is holding the camera.If true, then why is this camera taking "color" photos, and the other camera is only in black and white. And why is there not a "time stamp" and "camera" stamp on this picture?

left

ps I have to know, have you physically seen this camera, or has anyone connected to this case told you that there is a "fixed camera" at this location? thanks in advance.

shwa

03-06-2007, 10:41 PM

Hi Left. No, i have only seen the photos on jenniferkesse.com. Your right, it could be a temporary camera. I should say that i have seen pics on the news and in the newspaper.

leftcoast

03-06-2007, 10:50 PM

Hi Left. No, i have only seen the photos on jenniferkesse.com. Your right, it could be a temporary camera. I should say that i have seen pics on the news and in the newspaper.Shva: Thanks. I don't mean to argue. I just want to know for sure. I appreciate your insight. Remember, I am on your side when it comes to the possibility of the POI picture being taken at night. I think it is possible, but, I can't make a conclusion because I don't have the inside info. that the investigators have.

I am going to stay open minded about the possibility of a camera on that pole.

thanks for responding

left

shwa

03-06-2007, 11:02 PM

Your point is well taken Left. We will never know anything for sure but we can sure try.

One other thing. Why isn't there anybody else in the parking lot, only the mention of the poi.

leftcoast

03-06-2007, 11:19 PM

Your point is well taken Left. We will never know anything for sure but we can sure try.

One other thing. Why isn't there anybody else in the parking lot, only the mention of the poi.First, I must say I have a different opinion about the POI. My take, and it's just my opinion is as follows: The POI is caught either driving by the first camera, or parts or all of him are caught either parking the car, or getting out of Jk's car. Most likely parking. It is possible that only a part of him, such as his legs, etc. have been caught. Then, twenty seconds later, he is caught walking past the other camera, with the infamous picture. I could be wrong. But, it is my take.

It is possible the POI is a witness, but, I just don't understand why LE would call him a "POI", or why his picture would be sent to the FBI lab, or why the Kesse's keep on staring at the picture, as if to try and figure out if they remember this person, and why would LE spend so much time measuring his height, etc. at the scene. All of this for a witness. It tells me there is more to the POI, than just walking past a crimescene. Remember, just my opinion. We could all be wrong.

left

shwa

03-06-2007, 11:51 PM

leftcoast

03-07-2007, 12:16 AM

Hi Left. One thing that i have never read about is the exact route the tracking dog took, once he left the car after getting a scent from the front seat. If the dog followed the same route as the poi, which is along the fence around the pool, then probably to the street. The perp being the poi would be more creditable.I agree.

I don't know the answer as to the exact route. I do know initial reports were the dog dragged the handler from car back to JK's condo's parking lot. However, I am not educated as to the exact route. I think LE was not happy that this clue was released to the public. AS they tried to retract that statement.

There is a saying that is something makes sense, then it most likley is true.

If that dog left JEnn's car at the HOTG, and took the same route around the fence, and back to JK's condo, to me, it probably happened that way, and the POI was the driver of JK's car.

left

shwa

03-07-2007, 12:42 AM

Took a look around at the Orlando Sentinel Newspaper and at wesh news, video and image archives. Can't seem to get a good pic of the pool. But on the wesh news they do state that there are fixed cameras in the parking lot, but do not say exactly where.

Googled HOTG and they give out their address and phone number.

UK Sleuth

03-07-2007, 04:03 AM

left & shwa

I was wondering as you believe the picture may have been taken at night why would LE say it was lunchtime?

Are you of the opinion that it could be a genuine error by LE due to the clock on the camera being erratic/broken?

Dont forget they have already said the clock was an hour out due to daylight saving so that suggests they have already confirmed that the clock was wrong.

Would they then intentionally in a missing persons case say it was lunchtime when they knew it was night?

I doubt it personally, just my opinion of course.

I still go back to the point that in the 2.5 days between when JK was last heard from and the car was discovered the only person they have selected as poi from that camera is the one we have.

I cant believe that is the only person to walk in front of that camera in 2.5 days.

Therefore in my opinion LE know for sure that the poi dumped the car there and for some reason unknown they wont say which is frustrating.

Left I like your theory of LE hoping the poi would come forward and then like a rabbit from a hat LE produce a second picture showing him leave the car.

I think however the poi would realise that LE suspect he dumped the car and will have prints, DNA etc to nail him with should he turn himself in whther they have another picture or not.

Just some more thoughts Im not trying to debunk your theory but as they say once you have eliminated everything else what your left with is the truth.

Hopefully one day someone will get there.

leftcoast

03-07-2007, 06:03 AM

UK

99% of me thinks the picture was taken at the time LE states. However, since this case is unsolved, and the poor picture quality, along with a few other odd items, I am leaving open the possibility of the car being parked at night.

As far as purposely trying to mislead us about the time of the car being parked. I don't believe that to be true.

It's a good point about that in 2.5 days, the POI could not have been the only person to have walked by that camera. LE has stated that they know the POI was on the premises at the time the car was dropped. That just need to state whether he was a witness or a driver. I say driver.

Although I have been hard on LE, I will be the first to admit this is a tough case. I just wish I had more faith in their ability to solve this case.

My point is as follows: The case is cold, what in the world does LE have to lose by releasing more clues. I'm sure that whenever the person is caught, and hopefully Jenn is safe, that LE will have more than enough to prosecute. So, why in the world would you hold back information which could solve this case? Jenn's return is the number 1 priority, prosecuting the person is second. Also, the safety of the community does come into play here.

left

shwa

03-07-2007, 06:15 AM

Hi UK. I could have overlooked a statement by LE,but i don't remember ever hearing or reading any confirmation on the exact time. Even the Kesse family have said it was during the day and to note the time.

If the poi dropped the car off after having it for several hours, i'd assume he/she knows the area, then why put it where there is security cameras and not a more isolated area. I believe they were using the disguise of night. I don't think the PD has errored, they just haven't given us the details.

shwa

03-07-2007, 06:38 AM

Because she took her purse and briefcase along with her friends cell phone, it seems more reasonable that she left in the morning to go to work. Still wondering why the perp took these items. I wanted to look at this from a different angle and so the night time abduction started to make abit of sense.

With nobody hearing or seeing anything, and parking the car where there are security cameras, makes me think that it was at night.

UK Sleuth

03-07-2007, 06:39 AM

shwa

I dont fully understand your post are you saying that you think its at night but LE dont realise its at night or are you saying it is at night and they know this but for some unknown reason arent telling the Kesses and the rest of the world?

Perhaps the poi didnt know there were cameras there, no such thing as a perfect crime and whilst in hindsight we can say that doesnt make sense in the heat of the moment the poi/perp decides to dump the car somewhere local as soon as possible.

To find somewhere remote would require a longer drive and a longer trip back in theory so get rid quick somewhere local and your less likely to be seen and its worked because you cant make out anything from them useless pictures.

Perhaps what appears to be a weird hat on the poi head is some attempt at disguise???

leftcoast

03-07-2007, 07:50 AM

Another thing that we have not discussed here. The car which is pictured in the photo of the POI. Supposedly, the owner was found, and you would think he or she gave LE information as to the time in which his/her car was parked in that spot on that day. One would think this would help in the timeline.

As for the camera's at HOTG, SHVA, IMO, I really think those camera's are hard to spot. They are tucked underneath the eaves of the poolhouse. Sure, the sign on the pool fence mentions that security cameras are in use, but, if you are in a hurry, you are not going to stop and read that sign, especially at night. In my mind, this is further proof that the POI didn't live at HOTG, but, simply knew of this complex, and it was a convenient walk back to JK's.

One question for HOTG management would be, just how long have those camera's been in use?

left

Myserty64

03-07-2007, 08:19 AM

UK Sleuth

03-07-2007, 08:38 AM

Have any of these lakes been searched by divers?

That would be job number one in my book.

leftcoast

03-07-2007, 10:05 AM

The big question is: where is Jennifer?

I think we can surmise that her car wasn't driven far because the fuel guage was 'about right' for leaving Fort Lauderdale and driving to her workplace in Orlando and back home.
Was she transported in her car or another vehicle?
Was she taken to a nearby house?
Or was she assaulted before she got near her car and bundled into an empty condo?

If we assume she was abducted between 7.30-8.00am and her car was dumped at noon there is four hours to account for.
Finally, there are several lakes and other bodies of water in the vicinity.

Where could Jennifer be?You have some good questions, but, unfortunately, none of us has the answers.

Mystery: do you know any particulars about JK's schedule? When did she normally leave for work? did she work out in the morning? run? stop at Starbucks? etc. You seem to have the most infor. out of all of us. Keep up the good work

left

leftcoast

03-07-2007, 10:12 AM

Have any of these lakes been searched by divers?

That would be job number one in my book.Uk: That first weekend, over 1,000 people searched the woods, etc. around jk's condo and the HOTG. I believe there is also a lake in the area. I don't believe it was dragged, but I am not certain.

As for other lakes in the area. Talk about a needle in a haystack. It is Florida. There are quite a few lakes, and of course the ocean. Don't ask me about mileage to various bodies of water. I really don't think this would be feasible, unless LE got a specific tip.

Plus, dont' mean to be gruesome, but, wouldn't something have surfaced by now?

left

UK Sleuth

03-07-2007, 12:10 PM

Apologies Im not too familiar with the landscape in Florida.
(I will make it to the US one day!!!!!!!!)

Yes I guess something would have surfaced unless weighted down of course.

The lack of witnesses along with the lack of fuel used suggests she was taken very local and not moved from there at all which means she is either held captive or I hate to say it buried at this place she was taken to.

Just my thoughts hope its the former of those two of course.

leftcoast

03-07-2007, 08:32 PM

UK, didn't mean to be harsh, its' just that when lakes, etc. are searched, it usually comes from a tip, or in the PEterson case, he placed himself in the Marina by San Francisco. Even in that case, the sonar, and other equipment could not find anything.

What I think we are forgetting is that LE has been receiving tips on this case for over one year. I find it very, very, difficult to believe that not one person called in this POI's name to the tipline. THink about it logically, this case has been everywhere, national tv, fliers, even our friend's in the UK and Canada have heard about this, and not one person could recognize a 5"3-5"5 man (who is extremely short in the US), who dresses with those pants, has that walk, and would be recognizable by family, co-workers, etc.

I find it almost impossible to believe. Especially given the POI:s knowledge of the area. If LE hasn't i.d'd the POI, they should go over the list again, because common sense tells you his name is on the list.

left

Enrique Sparta

03-07-2007, 09:03 PM

I'm pretty sure the cops at least interviewed JK's family and her bf. They've come to the conclusion that she was abducted in or near her car in the morning of Tuesday Jan 24th, her parents feel the same. There are a number of reasons why we should too.

-because all of the above are reporting this. I don't believe in all this misinformation stuff the police might be throwing out there. that wouldn't help them at all in finding people who may have seen the mysterious POI if he was truly there at midnight and not the afternoon. I'll trust the Orlando Police Dept did some basic detective work here. Clearly they interviewed the boyfriend and it was a normal convo which came at about 10 PM Monday Jan 23. It's very likely she was in bed or right about to get into bed when she was last heard from. sure they don't give away all the information they have, but when they need the public's help they aren't gonna throw stuff out there that isn't true. Come on, how dumb and I mean really dumb would the POI have to be to come forward and say he was the POI if he was the one who drove the car. He wold literally have to be nearly brain-dead. There's only three scenarios for that POI guy (the police know more about him than they let on, we all know this)

1.He is THE guy and kidnapped JK, killed her, raped her, whatever awful act he has done or has her held captive somewhere.

2.he was an accomplice to the crime

3.he was an unwilling accomplice. perhaps a friend or acquaintence asked him to drop the car off there or somewhere there. Unlikely but it's possible.

If it's 1 or 2 zero chance he will come forward to the police as the POI. He may be evil and may even be stupid, but he knows what he did will get him life in prison at best. He's not volunteering anything, he knows he's in deep **** if anyone figures out it's him. If it's 3 he might come forward but it would have to be before whoever had him drive that car alerts him not to say a word and has to either let him in on what he had done OR tell him he will go to prison for a long time and to keep his mouth shut about ever driving that car. So no I don't buy the misinformation at all by the police. It doesn't make much sense to me to do that. Hold vital info back...definitely. Mislead the public whom you're asking for help? no.

-work clothes laid out on her bed, shower recently used, wet towel, and also briefcase gone too. Maybe she had trouble picking something to wear and would put the rest away when she got home later? If she were abducted in the middle of the night, why are her work clothes on her bed? Shower recently used? no briefcase? That would be one hell of a professional job if that was all staged and nothing else seemed odd or no hair or fingerprints or anything. And if this was the case, why are the police not treating her place as a crime scene? Why is nobody asking the residents about that night? Nah, everyone around JK (family, friends, bf) and the cops say morning Jan 24 on her way to the car or in her car. The layout of the apartment makes sense with this conclusion. Plus if it was a nighttime abduction why would the kidnapper wait around to have the shower running for a while? Or whatever, my shower dries rather quick after I'm done using it. Also it would be easy to ask her bf or friends what type of life she led. Was she a night person? Would it be common for her to go grab a bite to eat late at night? or go hang out with friends late at night or go the gym or do grocery shopping late? I think that's an obvious answer....no. I could be wrong but she seemed pretty dedicated to her job. Driving straight to work after a long drive home from vacation? in bed by 10 PM? That sounds like someone who leads a normal lifestyle. I'm sure her family gave all the info they could. Again all of them say morning of Jan 24, on the way to her car.

-about the car being parked at the Huntington. I'm pretty sure it was reported that the most recent anybody can remember that car being there was the following day Wednesday. A woman, who lived there I guess, had said she never noticed that car before and had almost backed into it. Perhaps there is more info that we don't know yet. It's possible somebody else came to the police and said they saw the car there at a certain time on Tuesday. Not revealed to the public though. I just remember that one woman saying she saw the car there on Wednesday, the day after the POI allegedly dropped the car off there. I dunno if this is critical since the cops and everyone have said the car was dropped off Tuesday Jan 24 at about noon, approximately 4 hours after JK was abducted.

-the A, B, C, D pictures on findjenniferkesse are interesting. the D one especially, it DOES look as if that's a camera there, up high. oh it would be just perfect to witness the POI or whoever getting outta the car after parking it. I don't see any reason though, for them to hold this information back and give us that god awful black and white photo. I wonder who took that picture, anybody know yet? Perhaps it's not a security camera and a news crew snapped the photo. The B photo is the best one of the POI and it still sucks. However from what I see, he is definitely carrying something. I've always thought it would be the package with the phone in it. Or maybe her briefcase. I also believe he's wearing a hat, either a backwards or sideways baseball hat or a derby hat or something. And of course I think it's a male. I also get the feeling he's walking awfully fast.

discuss

leftcoast

03-08-2007, 03:29 AM

Enrique: Did read your post. What some people are proposing are just possibilities, not conclusions. None of us, except for Jk and her abductor, know exactly what happened. I do have some problems with some of your statements.

First: you say your shower drys quickly. Well, if Jenn showers at 7 or so, in order to leave at 8, then why is the shower still wet at 3pm when the Kesse's arrive. Is 8 hours quick? I really don't think the shower information is of any value. It all depends on the temperature in the bathroom, etc. Plus, in other cases, bad guys have used the shower after committing a crime. This has happened more than once. I don't think it happened here, but it has happened. I think the shower is of no use.

As for the timeline, even the police had stated publicly to leave a timeline of 10pm until 9am open. Nobody knows what happened. Somebody could have entered her apartment at 5am, 6am, etc. or Jenn could have showered and ran out for an errand and been followed home the night before.

As for her briefcase, this is a stronger case for her being attacked on her way to work. However, if she kept her briefcase by the frontdoor, next to her carkeys, why wouldn't somebody grab it. Whose to say her briefcase wasn't left in the car, and the purse was taken because it had the car keys in it? NOt to mention her wallet and money. this could have been a robbery gone bad. Unlikely, but possible.

As for her clothes on the bed, maybe she was unpacking, maybe she was getting together clothes for the drycleaner, and just maybe she was chosing which outfit to wear the next day and was disturbed by a knock on the door or phone call.

In this forum, everybody has different views, ideas, etc. I think they are all very interesting. Stating with certainty that JK was attacked on the way to her car, is not appropriate unless there is more evidence that has not been shared with the public. In cases like these, strange things happen.

I agree that the most likely scenario is that JK was attacked on the way to her car. But, to eliminate or dismiss other possibilities would be a huge mistake.

As far as the POI coming forward: Stranger things have happened. Most criminals think they can outsmart the cops. You state" he would be a moron to come forward". Others in this forum think he is a moron for walking in front of a security camera.

Note: Police have been tight lipped about her landline, and if any calls came in. Why? What time did her phone stop sending pings to the cell tower?

You bring up some good points, but, by no means is this case a slam dunk, nor can we all assume JK was attacked going to her car.

There is a reason this case is unsolved. why? I don't know. But, I still think that all of the family and friends should have been required to take lie detector tests and give alibi's for the time of 10pm until 3pm on the 23 and 24th.

left

As for camera D, if this camera was a fixed camera, like you propose, then why is the picture in color versus black and white for the other camera? why is the picture so clear versus the other? Why doesn't the picture say "camera 1 or camera 3 on it"? why no time stamp like the other picture? And why is this camera focused only on Jenn's car? the other cameras are most likely focused on the gates to the pool, then why is this camera only focused on Jenn's car?

For the record: I have never stated that LE would purposely give out false information as to the time of the POI picture. Others suggested the time culd have been incorrect and LE simply missed the error or simply didn't correct the error. So, let's clear that up.

UK Sleuth

03-08-2007, 04:07 AM

Left no need to apologise you werent harsh i was being naive.

Excellent point about the poi, you would think it unlikely that he has not been identified by someone and perhaps been discounted.

I tend to agree with Enriques points I dont buy this misinformation stuff however I agree we must all keep an open mind.

Enrique Sparta

03-08-2007, 04:16 AM

As for camera D, if this camera was a fixed camera, like you propose, then why is the picture in color versus black and white for the other camera? why is the picture so clear versus the other? Why doesn't the picture say "camera 1 or camera 3 on it"? why no time stamp like the other picture? And why is this camera focused only on Jenn's car? the other cameras are most likely focused on the gates to the pool, then why is this camera only focused on Jenn's car?Perhaps it's not a security camera and a news crew snapped the photo I didn't say what I thought was 100% right. Just what's likely based on what the cops and family say and I don't believe in the cops misleading the public whose help they're asking for. Excellent point on the shower, I forgot they didn't check out her apartment until later in the day. If she was abducted in the nighttime, I think it would be somebody coming to her door or getting in somehow as opposed to her leaving to run an errand when she was in all likelihood getting ready for bed and picking out the clothes for the next day. I heard they did give some polygraphs to a few people but didn't mention who.

I think you've gotta take an awful hard look at the construction workers, the other residents in that apartment complex and also the brother and his friends who were partying there the weekend JK was away.

this is some mystery

leftcoast

03-08-2007, 04:31 AM

Enrique: We basically agree, just that you seem a lit more convinced of this happening in the morning, on the way to work. I think we all believe the most likely event was JK was attacked as she went to her car. I just don't want people to get tunnel vision, and exclude suspects because they have an alibi for the time JK was scheduled to leave for work.

I think we are all on the same page. Let's hope LE is thinking about this case as much as the public.

left

UK Sleuth

03-08-2007, 05:54 AM

leftcoast

03-08-2007, 06:16 AM

Left do you know if any PIs have been involved?

I dont know the Kesses financial situation but I would think now is the time to get someone like that on the case as it appears to have dried up.

I know they have stated there are tips coming in dalily but that has probably been the case since day one and often is with all unsolved cases.

Perhaps they feel that a pi couldnt do any more than Le are doing however as previously mentioned LE only have so much resource on any one case.

Just a thought.Uk: AS far as I know, the Kesse's have been resistant to hiring a P.I. I have been suggesting this in forums since last JUly, and those close to them have responded back that the Kesse's are happy with LE. I don't know if they know something we don't, or if they just don't trust P.I."s, or what? I do know that both parents are employed, in professional jobs, and hence, one would assume they could afford a P.I., if they so chose to.

But, I do agree with you about hiring a p.i. I've seen firsthand, how some people will talk to P.I.s, and not LE, because many people are afraid of LE. That is a fact. Especially illegal aliens, who may play a part in this case, IMO

left

ps I know that people close to the family, if not the family, scan these boards looking for information. Hopefully, they will think about hiring a P.I, assuming that LE has not identified the perp.

UK Sleuth

03-08-2007, 10:46 AM

leftcoast

03-08-2007, 11:24 AM

With regard to illegal aliens I agree sometimes LE are not trusted.

Dont know about the US but often the police here operate a 'We only want to know what you know' policy.

In other words if your are illegal and you know what happened to Jennifer we will turn a blind eye to that in exchange for your information.
Uk : the same is usually true in the states. However, if you were a witness, would you take the chance? Not to mention the language barrier, and turning in a relative, neighbor, etc. PLus, after 9/11, things have changed over here. Many foreigners are very nervous about LE, and rightly so. Many people from the US have been deported since 9/11, who would have never been deported before 9/11. This is very much true.

left

drumstick

03-10-2007, 11:00 AM

If YOU or someone YOU know has any information about the disappearance of Jennifer Kesse, PLEASE!! call the two tip line phone numbers set up for YOU to call!

1-407-772-2162
or
1-800-423-8744

If you can't bring yourself to call these numbers then please seek the other ways to contact Jennifer's Mom & Dad.
You can call any attorney, pastor, or tell a friend of your's the situation and tell them to call. Tell someone! Anyone!
Please find a way!

Thank you ~

shwa

03-10-2007, 11:19 AM

Hi Drumstick. I remember you from the old CFM forum, hope all is good. Maybe you can answer the question ... is the camera that took the photo of Jennifer's car marked "D" in jenniferkesse.com permanent or a temporary one?

Myserty64

03-10-2007, 08:00 PM

shwa,

Could you kindly post a link that takes me directly to the photo 'D'. I cannot find it.
Thanks.

leftcoast

03-10-2007, 08:45 PM

mystery:

the paste : http://jenniferkesse.com/aerial.htm. Scroll down to the "d" photo.

left

Myserty64

03-10-2007, 09:51 PM

Thanks leftcoast.

You could knock me down with a feather! That is the first time I saw that photo.
I feel like handing in my 'wanna be a detective badge.':)
A point of interest is it is a color photgraph and very natural compared to 'C' which has been colored later.
I wonder if the photo is a police one or one taken by an automated security camera.
If the POI was captured on film parking the car I doubt this was the camera. There is another one somewhere.

Myserty64

03-10-2007, 09:59 PM

Bobbisangel

03-10-2007, 11:59 PM

For what it's worth everytime I look at the POI I think he is wearing a beret.

Also I can't fathom the pants he is wearing. Everytime I see the photo I think 'bicycle clips.'
Do many people ride bikes around Orlando?

I wonder if the POI is still alive? If he was an accomplice parking the car......................well, work it out for yourself.

It looks like he is wearing a beret to me too. It also looks like his pants are about up to his neck with his shirt tucked in! Probably just the way the pic looks though. I think his pants leg looks funny because he is taking a step and his pant leg looks kind of twisted. I don't know how anyone could be indentified by looking at any of those pictures.

drumstick

03-11-2007, 10:54 AM

....is the camera that took the photo of Jennifer's car marked "D" in jenniferkesse.com permanent or a temporary one?Hi!

My memory of the HOTG cameras would rule out the photo D from being taken
from those cameras. Wrong angle.
I could have overlooked a camera on the streetlight pole in the parking lot, but I suspect photo D was taken by a news crew or le after finding the car.

If you are a resident of that area and know anything about the person of interest in this case, I urge you to come forward and call the tip line.

I would also remind you that Mr. and Mrs. Kesse have set up a reward for anyone leading them to this person. $10,000.00

You can read more about the reward at www.findjenniferkesse.com (http://www.findjenniferkesse.com/)

Please help find Jennifer ... please call the tip line.

1-407-772-2162
or
1-800-423-8744

~

Myserty64

03-12-2007, 06:25 AM

I wonder how Jennifer Kesse was overpowered without a trace of any evidence?
Even more mysterious is the fact if the POI was the abductor how did he do it so quickly and cleanly?

Jennifer was 5' 8" and she was both security conscious and intelligent. The POI was around 5' 4" and seems slightly built.
If Jennifer was abducted at or in her car there was no sign of a struggle either inside the car or outside in the form of scratches or scuff marks on the paint. It seems there were no small dents either.
Jennifer must have been taken totally by surprise but how was she disabled? Was it a headlock or at gun point or even the threat of a knife? Could she have been injected with a sedative?
As far as we know none of the belongings she had with here that day have been recovered including the car keys.

Due to the fact there was no sign of a struggle in the condo it has been generally overlooked as a place where the abduction occured. It is worth noting there has been no sign of a struggle anywhere.
It was said the locks were never changed on her condo so anyone who lived there previously could have had a key and therefore access. That to me is a scary thought.

Anyone who reads about cold cases knows there are a lot of unsolved crimes. However in just about all these cases someone saw something. Witnesses saw a car, or they saw someone acting suspiciously. Maybe the victim mentioned to a friend they had had some strange phone calls or there was a creepy ex-boyfriend in the background.
In this case there is nothing we are aware of. There is no physical evidence like clothing, footwear or anything else of Jennifer's. As far as we know nobody has seen anything.
It seems unbelievable but that's the way it is.

On the other hand did Jennifer know her abductor and that alone caused the surprise factor. An awful lot of victims know their attacker.
If this was the case however where does the POI fit in?

What on earth happened to Jennifer Kesse?

leftcoast

03-12-2007, 10:37 AM

Due to the fact there was no sign of a struggle in the condo it has been generally overlooked as a place where the abduction occured. It is worth noting there has been no sign of a struggle anywhere.
It was said the locks were never changed on her condo so anyone who lived there previously could have had a key and therefore access. That to me is a scary thought.

What on earth happened to Jennifer Kesse?Mystery: And you wanted to give up your "wannabe detective badge". good points.

I couldn't agree with you more.
Given that no evidence that we know about has been found, how can one conclude the condo was not where a crime or a confrontation occurred?

When JK's car was found, there was no way LE could determine where the crime scene was? Unless I am missing something. We were told the car was clean.

Then, how can you exclude something as a crime scene, when you don't know where the crime occurred? Especially the last place JK was known to have been before going missing.

The only way LE could have concluded the crime occurred in the parking lot of JK's car, is if there was a witness or physical evidence, such as a purse, broken window, clothes, etc.

If this had occurred, LE would have known on that Tuesday that JK was endangered, and that complex, along with her condo, would have been torn apart, on that Tuesday!! IMO.

Another thing. We keep on hearing that JK's seat was pushed back too far. Well, Jk is taller than the POI. How does this make sense? PLus, where a driver's seat is positioned does not always reflect the height of the driver. Some like to be close to the wheel, while other's like to ride low in their seats. The only valuable info. would be if JK's seat was not in her position in which she normally drives, or of course, video.

Has anybody ever entertained the thought that LE only has the video of the POI, and a picture of JK's car driving by that camera, and so many seconds later, the POI is caught walking by? I think that is a possibility. IMO (PS, the clock being off one hour would not require another camera. Simply, looking at the current time, versus the time on that camera when examined. ) Although, I wouldn't rule out the possibility of the other camera at least catching the time the car was parked, if operational, of course.

left

UM&AMWfan

03-12-2007, 04:05 PM

Uk : the same is usually true in the states. However, if you were a witness, would you take the chance? Not to mention the language barrier, and turning in a relative, neighbor, etc. PLus, after 9/11, things have changed over here. Many foreigners are very nervous about LE, and rightly so. Many people from the US have been deported since 9/11, who would have never been deported before 9/11. This is very much true.

left
But then again so many illegal aliens are simply let go even when LE KNOWS they are illegal like the case of the illegals that were caught in North Carolina recently. ICE says they just don't have the resources to deal with it.

Unfortunately, illegals (which are mostly Mexican) kind of live in their own world and I wonder how much they would even care to call something in even if they saw something. They obviously could be scared of LE but also if some illegals saw something they could know the guy who perpetrated the act and the could fear reprisal if they tell on him.

But they could give an anonymous tip but I just wonder how much an illegal would care since they tend to live in their own seperate little world.

UM&AMWfan

03-12-2007, 04:19 PM

Yeah, it's amazing how it seems that Jennifer disappeared into thin air without leaving signs of struggle or anythng else behind.

I hate to bring this up but an objective investigator needs to look at all the options.

If a body is never found there is a possiblitly that the perp. could've left the body in an alligator infested area hoping the gators would just take care of the evidence because this did happen if Florida where gators are most prevalent. It's unlikely this happened but it's a possibility.

I'm sure many of you have heard of the case of Amy Billig who disappeared around 30 years ago and was NEVER found. A biker on his death bed recounted a story that she was kidnapped and raped and was fed to the gators the SAME day as she disappeared.

What makes that so strange is that they were several sightings of Amy after she disappeared but if the biker's story is true then all those sightings were mistakes. Amy's mom died a year or 2 ago and her dad died before that so this case was really sad since both parents died and they never found Amy and still haven't and it's been so long that her remains would have completely decayed/been consumed by now so it seems like it would be impossible to find her now.

drumstick

03-13-2007, 12:01 AM

I respectfully disagree.

It's not amazing or even surprising that Jennifer was kidnapped without leaving any signs of a scuffle.
This type of crime happens quickly, as in the case of Sandra Gregory in Birmingham, Alabama. Sandy's abduction was caught on a surveillance camera and we watched how quickly these crimes happen.

http://www.nbc10.com/news/9299535/detail.html (http://www.nbc10.com/news/9299535/detail.html) video of Sandy's abduction

In Sandy's case a man nearby heard her scream and called 911.
That call made all the difference in the world in finding Sandra Gregory.

As far as the Amy Billig case ... I don't see a comparison.

It has been widely believed that Amy was kidnapped by Christopher Wilder.
Christopher Wilder lived in the same area at the time of Amy's disappearance
and fits his MO.
http://w3.lincolnu.edu/~rynard/Wilder.pdf (http://w3.lincolnu.edu/~rynard/Wilder.pdf)

Jennifer Kesse is still missing.
If you have any information about her disappearance from Orlando, FL
please call the tip lines.
1-407-772-2162 or 1-800-423-8744

~

Enrique Sparta

03-13-2007, 12:45 AM

Enrique Sparta

03-13-2007, 01:55 AM

i went over lots of the articles re: JK

-this was covered extensively every day for the first several weeks. now it's very rare, the only time she's mentioned anywhere is the 9 month anniversary of JK's disappearance, 1 year anniversary, etc

-at first they referred to the POI was a male but then in later articles said they don't even know if it's a male or female. all they know is the person is between 5'3"-5'5" they also mentioned the clothing the POI may be wearing dark clothing and not light clothing as the video is inaccurate with light and dark colors. What a lousy security camera.

-the cops have never said if there was anything found in her car. there were no quotes on this, just one sentence stating that the cops haven't mentioned anything. Also JK's family sold the car which seems a bit odd although I'm sure the cops checked it out thoroughly and got whatever evidence there may have been before the family got rid of it. The last that was reported about the car was that cops were waiting for evidence found in the car. Evidence was sent for further analysis to FBI crime labs.

-lie detectors have been used but the police will not reveal who was polygraphed and how many overall. the immediate family did say they were not polygraphed.

-Apparently there were quite a few tips in the first several weeks following JK's disappearance. In fact there was a raid in some boarding house on 40th Street (I dunno where that is in relation to JK's apartment and where her car was found) the cops found this tip to be good and the informant to be VERY credible, they met with the tipster in person and several hours later, a S.W.A.T. team busted into that boarding house but of course they did not find JK and the article said the cops didn't find evidence that she had been there or where she might be now. The people living in the boarding house were questioned but not cooperative.

-one article mentioned that cops believe JK showered and got ready for work and may have been abducted right after that or when dropping off a fed-ex package or getting coffee. however they leave from 10 PM until the next day open, nothing set in stone.

-The cops were awfully confident that this case was gonna be solved within the week or the next couple of days, etc. The article mentioned the cops said JK's disappearance involved transients and it was a matter of getting names and locating them. This was in February of '06, just a few weeks after JK's disappearance.

that about sums it up. i wonder what the credible tips were about? and why they suspect transients? wish we knew more. this case is most definitely cold though.

here is an article from February 14th, 2006 which I found awfully interesting, especially considering how confident the detectives were to solving the case.

http://www.cfnews13.com/News/Local/2006/2/14/jennifer_kesse_case.html

Enrique Sparta

03-13-2007, 02:23 AM

i found something else, it's from that Greta woman who interviewed JK's parents on her show.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,184976,00.html

Drew Kesse - The person of interest is vitally important to us and it's vitally important that person come forward and come forward now before he gets himself in more trouble.

Interesting I didn't know the POI was in trouble. I thought it was just somebody the police wanted to talk to? Someone who may have seen something? Yeah Right. Of course the POI is involved in her abduction in some way.

leftcoast

03-13-2007, 03:19 AM

correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it true the cops haven't released any info on whether or not they found any evidence in the car? they did treat it is a crime scene, yes? and also I don't remember reading where it was a given that the car seat was pushed BACK. If I'm outta the loop, please let me know. I haven't read the articles on JK lately.

Also, suppose there is no prints or nothing in her car, the person driving it was careful to not leave any evidence or do their best not to. But they leave the car seat and mirrors in a different position than how JK had it while wiping away prints????? Doesn't add up.

what about some other photos from that same camera? look how far to the right the camera covers. Where's the POI in the next frame?

doesn't it look like their carrying something in their right arm? what do you think it could be?LE has been very quiet on what they found in the car, and rightfully so. Supposedly, they did admit that there was no sign of a struggle, or blood, from what I can recall.

As for the seat being pushed back, that has been mentioned by others on this site, not LE. IF you look at pictures of JK's car at HOTG http://jenniferkesse.com/jennifers-car.htm , you can determine where the seat was. Of course, one must know the position that JK normally had the seat in while driving.

As for prints, nobody knows.
LE has not stated whether prints were found or not.
If no prints were found in that car, it obviously shows that the perp. wiped down the car.
However, it is possible that LE did get a print, but no match in AFIS. Who knows? If any prints were found, they could be from JK, a friend, etc., who are not in the AFIS system. OR it could just be a partial print, palm, print, etc., which can be matched if and when the POI or perp. is identified.

As for the third frame of the POI, we have seen that photo. It doesn't show anything, other than the pOI further to the right, just to the right of the palm tree.

left

leftcoast

03-13-2007, 05:33 AM

Again:

Why weren't roadblocks used in the days after JK's disappearance to try and obtain more information from commuters?

How many more months will go by, until LE admits this case is cold, and decides to re-ignite public interest in this case by releasing additional clues?

When, if ever, will be the right time to hire a private investigator? Aren't two sets of eyes, and investigators, better than one?

I just hope LE is not having tunnel vision on this case.

Something about this case, it is just too clean.

Sometimes when we can't figure things out, ie, this crime, the best thing to do is to start over.

I still argue the POI's name must be on the list of names called in by the public.

frustrated with lack of progress

left

UK Sleuth

03-13-2007, 05:49 AM

I wouldnt read anything into the position of the car seat which has been speculated about, how would anyone except JK know her driving position?

The only thing that would be weird is if the seat was pushed so far back that someone of 5ft 8in could not reach the pedals and this does not tie in with the height of the poi.

If we believe the poi dumped the car that is.(We dont know this for sure but its fairly good conjecture that LE think/know so)

The height differential of 3 - 5 inches between the poi and JK would suggest that you could not tell that its not JKs driving position.

This appears to be a rumoured theory that 'that is how they know that somebody else drove the car to HOTG'.

I dont buy that theory, LE know for some other reason.

That just leads back to the lack of information problem, to get any further as websleuthers we would need to know the answer to these questions which are I amsure bugging you like they me:

WHY IS THE POI A POI?
If the answer is 'because they dumped the car' then question two is:

HOW DO YOU KNOW IF YOU ONLY HAVE THOSE TWO POI PICS?

Im finding it hard to believe that if LE have another shot of the poi parking the car that they wouldnt have released it by now due to lack of progress.

Myserty64

03-13-2007, 08:12 AM

UK Sleuth

03-13-2007, 08:38 AM

Why do you think for certain they were transients?

Just interested on that one.

Motive is a difficult one with such a lack of evidence but I think a sexual motivation, JK is an attractive young blonde so that would be my guess but like I say with very little to go on its hard to say.

shwa

03-13-2007, 08:45 AM

Went over to profiler Maurice Godwin's site looking for the map on the

Jennifer Kesse case. It's under ... media interviews ... in the Orlando Sentinel
on Feb. 16. In the nearest intersection, just outside of HOTG it says ...
video image ... could this be where the photo of someone driving JK's car have been taken.

leftcoast

03-13-2007, 11:06 AM

regardless of what anyone says, I believe errors were made early in this investigation. I have already mentioned a few.

for the life of me, I still don't understand why the security or management at JK's complex didn't start writing down license plate numbers of cars at the complex. Even if they only wrote down the plates as the cars left the complex.

For what I understand, there is only one entrance and exit. How difficult could this have been.

It also doesnt' seem like anyone took this case as serious as necessary until JK's car was found.

People like Jennifer Wilbanks, and the other nuts, who stage their own disappearance, definitely play a part in why LE is slow to investigate when people go missing.

left

left

UK Sleuth

03-13-2007, 11:30 AM

Left it does seem that erros have been made.

I am assuming there is no CCTV footage of any kind at JKs complex?

If there is I would hope that it has been studied for the days and weeks preceeding her disappearance, I find it hard to believe whoever did this was not scouting the area or at least been there once in the preeceding few days on some sort of reconnaisance mission.

With regard to the number plates I think like you say the problem is people dont take things seriously at first because they assume that the person will be found or whatever, also you dont always do the right thing when you should.

My bosses favourite phrase is 'Hindisight is the best tool in our toolbox'

You know we have got something wrong when he wheels out that old chestnut in a meeting!!

Also minding your own business and 'not getting involved' is the easy part isnt it?

leftcoast

03-13-2007, 12:07 PM

UK

I don't believe there has been any mention of CCTV at JK's condo (most apartments, condo's, don't have cctv in the US). Therefore, I think it is safe to say, no such system existed when JK went missing.

You made a good point about recon. and this crime. It is hard to believe that JK's abduction was the first time the perp. was on the condo grounds.

Last JUly, we were all discussing this case on a different site. And you know what, not one new item, one new clue, has been released by LE. We keep on hearing about the last piece of the puzzle. The last piece of the puzzle is always the easiest. It is the first pieces which are the most difficult.

left

Valiant

03-13-2007, 12:17 PM

From what I've read, it seems the Mosaic had a gated parking lot but no cameras on the entrance or anywhere else. Mosaic's website now says there are alarms in each unit, but I don't know and have never heard 1) If they were there when JK was if she armed her alarm which could pinpoint a time or if 2) the alarms were a later addition.

I still think it's quite possible she was abducted elsewhere and in a fit of panic the perp tried to return the car to divert attention away from that site.

I had thought she made it to work and was attacked there, but don't think that anymore as relatives said she always called her boyfriend on the trip to work. Maybe she stopped someplace first, like to mail the phone and intended to make her phone call later but the attack occurred first.

Enrique Sparta

03-13-2007, 04:05 PM

Well, there are many good points made in the posts above.

I agree that these abductions are made at speed and they can also be violent.
With what I have read here I am leaning towards a gun being used.
The next question is was Jennifer taken in her car or another one?

I'm also thinking there was more than one offender in this abduction and I think it's obvious they were transients. That's the very reason they haven't been found.
If one of the offenders is in fact an 'accessory after the fact' I believe he is the one who parked the car and is the POI. He could well have been asked to shift her car from Mosaic to Huntington.

This is purely conjecture I know but what else can we do? We have very little to work with.

Finally, I'm certain that theft wasn't a motive in this case.
Does anyone care to suggest a motive?

Agree with you about transients and an accomplice. In fact, last night when I went over TV pieces and articles from the Orlando Sentinel, the detectives also mentioned they believed there was a strong possibility there was more than one person involved. And yes they mentioned the transients as a central part of their investigation. And I also agree the POI is likely an accesory or accomplice, that's why there have been pleas from law enforcement and JK's family pleading with somebody to come forward before it's too late to make deals. All public comments. JK's father even commented about the POI coming forward now before he gets into any more trouble.

Not sure about whether she was taken in another car, but why would they move her car to another complex? Suppose she was abducted in the parking area or right outside her apartment, why would they even touch her car. It's not like they drove the car somewhere where it would be difficult to find.

Motive. Certainly theft seems unlikely. Unfortunately I would guess she was abducted to be sexually assaulted, she is a very attractive girl. Maybe she saw something she wasn't supposed to? I dunno why people go missing, I wish I knew. I'm dying to know what happens to people who don't voluntarily disappear.

leftcoast

03-14-2007, 04:52 AM

So, Le thinks the perp. could be a transient, with an accomplice? Hmm. is this the same LE that thought this case would be solved within a week?

Truth is, all we can do is speculate. We don't have access to vital information:

such as:
Jk;s cellphone records
JK's home phone records
Jk's work phone
Hairs, fibers, prints, and any other evidence found in the car
The other photos from HOTG.
Photos from other cameras in the neighborhood
Tips from callers !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Acess to neighbors, and their alibi's and criminal records
Access to contractors, garbagemen, deliverymen, cable installers, etc. at Mosaic
Access to friends, family, co-workers, alibis and criminal records.
Interview with staff at the Mosaic grounds
Evidence from Jk's condo
etc.

So, all we can simply do is speculate. It just seems that if the answer was obvious, this case would have been solved a long time ago. Since it is still unsolved, IMO, the perp. had this planned, is familar with LE and their techniques, and most likely moved the car to throw off police.

left

Myserty64

03-14-2007, 08:13 AM

That list just about covers all the bases leftcoast!:)

I think you are right about the car being moved to cause confusion. It appears to have worked too because it delayed the start of the investigation by a couple of days.
I just hope the detectives have more to work on than I think they have.

While I think of it...........remember the playing cards that were distributed to the jails last year? It looks like they have drawn a blank too.
On a positive note things could be happening behind the scenes that we don't know about and the police could be involved in a waiting game.

UK Sleuth

03-14-2007, 12:32 PM

This really is the most infuriating case.
In most disappearances you at least have something to work with but there is nothing.

Who kidnapped JK?

Transients
An Ex
A neighbour
A worker
A stalker
A colleague
A relative

When did they get her?

8am
10pm
Anywhere in between

Where did they get her?
In her condo.
By her car
On her way to work

What is the poi?

Male
Female
Perp
accomplice
witness
innocent bystanding illegal alien.

Why is the car a crime scene?

Prints
Fiber
DNA
Blood

What was the motive?

Rape
Murder
Both of the above
To be held hostage indefinetly

The only thing I think we can say for sure is that JK was kidnapped, other than that its just theory on top of counter theory.

To break this case something needs to occur, some new piece of evidence must come to light or someone has to talk.

I realise all this is stating the obvious, its the one case if I could pick of any I would like to know everything the authorities know.

Melisinde

03-14-2007, 12:38 PM

Uk, you've got a great summary there. From what I've seen, many people think that she was either killed immediately or she is still a hostage to this day. I'm not sure what particularly drives the second theory, but there have been cases like Shawn Hornbeck and the "Woman in the Box" (can't remember the name, just the title of the Crime Library article.) I agree that this case is frustrating though. There are as many (lack of) leads as in the Tara Grinstead case and these two will be forever entwined in my mind. I can only hope that LE is keeping everything so quiet and secure because they have some really dynamite stuff. :( Prayers for Jennifer and Tara...

Myserty64

03-15-2007, 07:21 AM

Good work UK!

My hunches go like this:

Possibly an ex or a stalker.
Probably transient/s.

The time was probably around 8am.

Abducted by her car.

The POI is most probably male.

It is probable the car has provided DNA.

Sadly the motive was most likely rape/murder.

UK Sleuth

03-15-2007, 10:11 AM

I tend to agree with your narrowed down list!

Going back to the poi pic which no doubt we have all studied, I cant say I have ever seen a more bizarrely dressed looking person.

They appear to have some sort of hat which looks like a beret, their trousers seem to be half way up there torso like Simon Cowell and seem to have incredibly big feet in comparison to their height.

The lack of quality in the picture may be accentuating this but they really do look odd.

Does this bizarre dress especially the beret tie in with the theory of transients?

Just wondering what your thoughts as obviously I am not aware of the average transients attire, well not US ones anyway!

leftcoast

03-15-2007, 12:19 PM

Going back to the poi pic which no doubt we have all studied, I cant say I have ever seen a more bizarrely dressed looking person.

They appear to have some sort of hat which looks like a beret, their trousers seem to be half way up there torso like Simon Cowell and seem to have incredibly big feet in comparison to their height.

Does this bizarre dress especially the beret tie in with the theory of transients?

Just wondering what your thoughts as obviously I am not aware of the average transients attire, well not US ones anyway!UK:

The average transient (assuming you are referring to the homeless), at least where I live, normally wears blue jeans, tennis shoes or hiking shoes, jacket, and usually some type of hat.

I too, find the outfit of the POI very odd. I must say I have never dressed that way, but, without color, it is hard to imagine what the outfit looks like.

Others, and me, have suggested the POI is either wearing a beret, hat, or even a helmet. I wouldn't rule out a bicycle rider, with bicycle shoes, and rubber banded pants. Some say construction, others restaurant worker. etc.

I've always said that LE should have done the following:

Used different people, of different height and weight, and different clothing, such as blue jeans, sweat pants, carhardts, etc, to walk past the camera at HOTG. It was my feeling, that with different outfits (including hats), that one would get better feel of the POI's clothing.

Such an experiment would also help in judging the pOI's height, weight, and whether he was carrying anything, which many speculate he was.

Since this picture came out, whenever I ride the train, I always look for similar clothing. I have only seen the pants on one occasion. It was on a police officer, who was some type of swat officer, with the elastic band on the bottom.

Maybe, just maybe, this POI was posing as LE. Nothing would surprise me.

left

leftcoast

03-21-2007, 02:57 PM

They appear to have some sort of hat which looks like a beret, their trousers seem to be half way up there torso like Simon Cowell and seem to have incredibly big feet in comparison to their height.

Well, it appears that Websleuths has fixed their "computer glitch".

UK: Your statement about the POI, especially the size to the feet, hits home.

Since last July, I have been arguing that "I" believe the height of the POI is not accurate. The following are reasons for my conclusion:

1) The camera which took the pictures of the POI is approximately 25 feet in distance from the POI. The camera is perched under the poolhouse roof, and is approximately 15-18 feet from the ground. Given this steep angle, anybody standing in close proximity to the gate, will appear to be shorter than actual size. The opposite is true as one gets further away from the gate toward the parking lot.

2) When one attempts to estimate height, we use an outside source as a type of barometer. In most cases, we use our own height to compare. In this case, we are forced to use the height of the POi in comparison to the gate. This is where the problem begins. The gate is 6"10 in height. Anybody who is standing within 15 feet of that gate will appear to be short because they are shorter than the gate, not to mention the severe angle of the camera.

3) Lastly, and most importantly, the camera shot of the POI is "MISLEADING". The elevation of the gate, and the ground in which the POI is walking, are not on the same plane. AS a matter of fact, it appears that the POI is approximately 9-12 inches below the plane of the gate and cooldeck.

I found a great reference aid to those who are like me, and are suspect of POI height estimate. http://www.wftv.com/video/6885628/detail.html. This video, shows the Kesse's taking a tour of the grounds of HOTG. IF you stop the video at .31/1.26, or at 31 seconds, you will see a view of the disparity in height between the gate and the parking lot in which the POI was walking.

This shot at 31 seconds, also shows how the police are attempting to estimate the height of the POI. To me, it is quite obvious that the female officer used as a model to represent the POI, is much shorter than the POI. If you take it one step further, IMO, the male officer is much closer to the actual height of the POI.

Conclusion: I may be wrong, for I have never been to the HOTG, but, from the beginning, I have always believed the POI"s height is not accurate. I think, since this is the only real clue that LE has, it should be double checked. I still believe that the best way to judge the POI's height is to have various people, who are 5"2, 5"6, 5'10. 6'2, walk in the same path as the POI. The camera on the poolhouse should be used to photograph these individuals, and the height should be compared to the POI. When all is said and done, I believe the height of the POI is much greater than 5"5, and closer to a range of 5"10-6"2. This is of course, just my opinion. I sure hope I am wrong.

left

UK Sleuth

03-22-2007, 05:19 AM

leftcoast

03-23-2007, 02:33 AM

Good work left I agree the poi definitely appears taller than the female officer.

It is hard to distinguish how far away the poi is from the actual gate, another foot further away than you think would make the poi appear shorter than they are.

The mystery just rumbles on....

Hey Uk: Thanks for the compliment:

Uk, last summer, on a different board, a person who lives in Orlando, actually drove to the HOTG and made some measurements, and posted the measurements on a website discussion board.

If I recall correctly:

THe POI is approximately 4 feet from the curb. The curb is approximately 6 feet from the gate, hence, the POI is approximately 10 feet from the pool gate. Supposedly, LE had marked with tape, or chalk, the POI's position, and the internet poster was able to use this to measure the distances. Based on her measurements, and reviewing the scene, I think they are in the ballpark.

AS for the height of the POI, the more I study the two pictures, the more convinced I am that the POI is much taller than 5"5.

Another thing that this video suggests, is that this picture of the POI is the best picture that LE has of the POI. Why? Because doesn't it seem that LE would use the best picture in order to estimate the height of the POI. It is obvious from the video, that LE was attempting to estimate the pOI's height, or at the least, verifying their estimate.

left

UK Sleuth

03-23-2007, 08:01 AM

leftcoast

03-23-2007, 01:40 PM

It does suggest that is the best or only pic they have.

Still bugs met that we dont know how or why LE know the car was dumped around that time therefore making the poi a poi.

If it were a witness you would think that it would have come out by now that 'A witness saw the car dumped at that time'

They dont have to say 'the witness saw the poi dump the car'

I cant believe if they have CCTV of the car being parked it doesnt provide another shot of the poi dumping it(if in fact they did)

The other thought I had was that LE may have the car appearing on other CCTV's en route around HOTG.

So by assumption they see the car on a timeline toward HOTG and then at the end of the timeline the poi appears.

Hey UK

I really don't know how LE can put the POI in the parking lot when JK"s car is being dumped. It bugs me too, that LE won't release more details and hope the added information will crack this case.

However, if you think about it rationally, IMO, it must be that one of the two camera's that we know about, caught the POI either exiting the car, or driving past the camera's at HOTG. It's possible, and in my opinion, very likely, that the second camera at HOTG caught a glimpse of JK's car being parked, and only obtained a partial view of the driver, say the shoes and pants. Another possibility, is that the POI drove by the pool gate, and that same camera snapped a picture of the POI driving by the gate. And then one minute later, give or take, the POI is caught strolling past the infamous pool gate.

As for witnesses, I think that is unlikely. It just seems unlikely somebody would pay attention to another person parking a car, and then remember the event days later. You see, when JK's car was parked, it was not common knowledge she was missing.

AS for other CCTV enroute to HOTG, that is a strong possibility. But, unless the CCTV was an incredibly close up shot, how would LE be able to recognize the person in JK's car as the same person who walked past the pool camera at noon?

I still believe that one of the camera's at HOTG caught JK;s car either entering the lot, or being parked. IMO, the picture only shows a portion of the POI, and hence LE is only showing us the best shot of the POI.

left

UK: Your honest opinion. What do you think the range of height for the POI is? I realize it is hard to judge, but, if you had to guess, what would you guess? don't let my estimate or the estimate from the police influence you. I want your honest opinion. And how would you go about estimating the height?

Myserty64

03-23-2007, 08:31 PM

One would have to say that after 14 months this case is in a lot of trouble and is getting colder by the minute.
I can't remember the police releasing any new information since the POI was nominated as ............you guessed it............a POI.

I don't know about the height of the POI. I would like to think that the FBI, who helped out with the height estimation, would know what they were doing. If we take the higher estimate of 5' 5" there are still a lot of males around of that height. In fact I have one living next door and he also looks to be strong enough doing yard work. A male of this build can still easily overpower a female; it's just the way it is.

It is worth noting that if it wasn't for the released photos of the POI there wouldn't be much to go on.
What about unreleased photos of the POI? What's the big secret with those?
It is obvious the police have evidence of the POI parking the car otherwise they couldn't be certain the POI was photographed at the same time the car was parked.
The police have never nominated any other suspect other than the POI so they may have evidence we are unaware of.

The police have conducted numerous interviews regarding Jennifer Kesse. They must have something from all those interviews.
The police would have heard theories from Jennifer's friends and workmates. They would have picked up a lot of gossip and people do see and hear things. There would be workers at Mosaic that may have mentioned their suspicions about other workers.
We would most likely be quite surprised to see what is in the Jennifer Kesse file.

Right from the beginning homicide detectives were investigating this case. Any detectives worst scenario is a homicide case without a body.

Sadly, this case doesn't have a whole lot going for it as far as getting a suspect to court goes.

Myserty64

03-23-2007, 08:46 PM

Where is Jennifer Kesse?

For this case to go anywhere Jennifer needs to be found but where could she be?
If we assume the abduction occurred sometime near 8am and the car was dropped at noon we have a period of four hours to account for.

The first question that needs to be answered is; 'was her car used in the abduction or was it merely driven from Mosaic to Huntington?'

The next question is; 'where did the main crime take place? Was it in a secluded area or was it in a house?'

Thirdly, if this is a homicide case where is the body? Did the perpetrator drive a long way, say 30 miles or so, to hide it? Or was the crime and the disposal of the body all carried out within a 5 mile radius of Mosaic?'

This crime has the appearance of being very well planned.

Myserty64

03-23-2007, 09:01 PM

Jennifer's car at Huntington.

Looking at photographs of her car when it was found at Huntingdon it seems there is a fair bit of mud splatter on the body behind both the front and rear wheels.
I wonder if it was fine weather when she drove to and from Fort Lauderdale?
I know when I drive my own car off road or at least off sealed roads you get that same kind of splatter on the body work. The same can happen on wet roads.

The police would have checked the tires etc for soil samples. I wonder what they found?

leftcoast

03-24-2007, 01:30 AM

I don't know about the height of the POI. I would like to think that the FBI, who helped out with the height estimation, would know what they were doing. If we take the higher estimate of 5' 5" there are still a lot of males around of that height. In fact I have one living next door and he also looks to be strong enough doing yard work. A male of this build can still easily overpower a female; it's just the way it is.

Mystery: Glad to hear from you.

As far as the height of the POI.

Did you have time to view the video in which I was speaking about?

I was not suggesting that a male who stands 5"5 would be unable to overpower JK. What I am suggesting, is that I HOPE LE is not eliminating potential suspects, based on height alone. This, IMO, could be a critical mistake.

What I am suggesting, is that the estimate of the POI's height is difficult given the height of the camera, the distance of the POI from the gate, and the uneven plane between the gate and the POI.

As far as the FBI assisting, I have heard they assisted in certain aspects of this case. Regardless of who came up with the height estimate of the POI (which appears to come from local police, given the video) , given the importance of this estimate, and the fact it is one of only a few clues in this case, it is my opinion that the height estimate should have been independently doubled, and even tripled checked.

Regardless, I still find it hard to believe that one could get so specific in the estimate, given the above, and the fact the POI was walking, versus standing, which would make the estimate even that much more difficult.

As far as the FBI making mistakes, I have actually researched a high profile cold case from the 70's in which an FBI agent actually made a critical error in a case which went unsolved. Of course, the public thought it was a perfect crime, when in reality it was just an error in judgement by one agent. FBI agents are just like everyone else, they are human, and prone to mistakes.

left

Bobbisangel

03-24-2007, 02:25 AM

I don't think that LE are ever going to get anywhere with that picture of the person of interest. The picture just isn't clear enough to get any idea of what the person looks like or even what they are really wearing. Even if they get a height that they think is right there could be probably thousands of people of the same height in that city. I just think that pic is a dead end like everything else in this case.

I think if LE had anything at all they would have made progress by now. It seems that this case is cold. If someone took Jennifer for sex I doubt that she is still alive by now. Very rarely children are kept for years but not adults.
I don't think it is a stretch that the person might have taken Jennifer's body miles away and buried her. She hasn't been found yet and she wouldn't be the first person that was driven even states away and buried. It's really sad that nothing has happened in this case. Her parents have done everything that they can think of to get someone to come forward or call. I just feel so bad for them. I can't even imagine what it is like to live in their shoes day in and day out. It just seems that there is nothing to go on at all.

Myserty64

03-24-2007, 07:43 AM

You have a valid argument leftcoast. Sometimes experts are so close to the woods they can't see the trees.
I'm not so sure this case has been handled as well as it could have been either. The investigation got off to a very slow start and I'm not sure it has ever recovered.
Also, the police call for help from the public but we the public are given nothing to work on.
My fear is that the lack of information from the police is due to the fact they have nothing to give out.

On the positive side I'm hoping that one day there will be a match to whatever forensic evidence they got from Jennifer's car. Even if that happens they need Jennifer and if she is deceased her body is needed.
It is very difficult to prosecute a homicide case without a body.

leftcoast

03-24-2007, 02:27 PM

Well, as of today it is now 14 months since JK disappeared.

Time for Plan B.

left

leftcoast

03-24-2007, 05:26 PM

How I would try to solve this case, if I were the Kesse's

1) Hire a P.I.. Do your homework, and make sure you get someone who is respected by cops. For example, a retired detective, fbi, etc. Some of the P.I.'s out there are shady, so , you must do your homework before selecting one.

2) re-enact the POI's walk at HOTG, and of course, test the height of POI.

3) Get an email account, from hotmail, yahoo, etc. where people can send in anonymous tips. Every fool out there knows that tip lines are recorded and traced. Let people know they can be anonymous with email tips.

4) Have a relative, family friend, P.I., etc, rent a condo at Mosaic, and have the person just watch activity of the other residents, workers, etc, and speak to residents. You really get insight when you reside at a complex, as it pertains to schedules, such as fellow residents, garbage pickup, cable installers, landscapers, traffic from visitors, etc.

5) Saturate the area around HOTG, and MOsiac with posters, reward offers, etc, include talking to mail carriers, UPS drivers, fedex drivers, pastors, and anybody who works the area on a daily basis. These people can work the same route for years, and are a good source of information.

6) Be open minded. Maybe, this crime is not what it seems. Everybody is concluding it was a sexual assualt. While that is most likely, don't have tunnel vision toward the possibility that Jk knew or saw something she wasn't suppose to.

7) Be open minded about the POI. He could either be the lone criminal. Or he could just be someone who was paid to dump the car.

8) Don't give up. This person needs to brought to justice.

9) Look back at JK's college years, and even her first years after school. Did JK have a stalker who was a boyfriend in college? Some of the stalkers can lurk for years, thinking they have a chance. A former girlfriend of mine, actually had a stalker, who of all things, was our mailman. This guy was actually going through her mail, driving down our street on his off hours, and was extremely creepy. So, don't rule out anyone.

10) I think it is unfair to totally place blame on LE in this case. This is a tough case to solve. IT appears to be well planned, and not an argument that got out of control. I still think LE made errors early on, but, they are human and the majority of cases like this one, end up with the missing person showing up.

11) Get on tv whenever possible. Most of us learned of this from Greta. Why not call her, Nancy Grace, Larry King, John Walsh, and try to get on their shows, whenever possible. Even offer more information as a crutch to get air time.

Well, that is it for now. My thoughts are with the Kesse's and Rob.

left

UK Sleuth

03-26-2007, 04:59 AM

I tend to agree with Mystery on this I would think that LE have a lot of information gathered on this case with statements from workers, friends etc.

I dont however believe they have a suspect as I believe and again its only my opinion that they have DNA evidence from Jks car therefore you would assume they would arrest said suspect and compare DNA.

This is where I think the problem lies, LE have lots of information and probably have a good idea of what happened but thats where it ends.

Left with regard to the height of the poi I never doubted it until you mentioned it I just found the person to be very odd looking not to mention oddly dressed.

Honestly I cant really judge from that picture the height of the poi as if LE had told me the person was 6ft I would believe it(based on the photo)

Its just a really odd photo of an odd person.

I do agree however that LE should check and counter check the estimated height, with so little to go on this must be at least in the ballpark.

I am one of those people who leans forward when they walk so appear marginally shorter, my father always use to say 'Stop looking at your shoes when you walk!' when I was a kid(think I was looking for money!)

If they have made a critical error and the poi is say 5ft 10 - 6ft then that may throw people of course, someone may suspect somebody that resembles the poi but is 6ft for instance.

It is well known that LE make fundamental errors at times, LE over here have almost been held responsible for the last few victims of the Yorkshire ripper due to catastrophic errors in judgement and lines of enquiry closed too early so I think it is right of the public to question LE.

As you say they are human and make mistakes.

What interests me is the statements made in the past by LE and the Kesse's.

Some of the statements seem to suggest the theory of an accomplice as 'its not to late to come forward before things get worse' type statments.

Perhaps LE theorise there was more than one person involved and have attempted via the media to get one to grass on the other.

Again its why do they theorise this?

I think the likes of us theorising with the lack of information in the public domain is a bit like wandering round your house in the dark when your furnitures been rearranged!

We shouldnt stop however you never know when somebody somewhere will have a eureka moment.

What would you give to see the case file?

Whatever the outcome I hope to god that poor family eventually get some closure.

leftcoast

03-26-2007, 06:07 PM

Hi UK.

Agree with most of what you said.

One thing I disagree with you is the possibility of the POI's DNA in JK's car. From what source would this come? Apparently, there was no blood in the car, the POI looks to be wearing a hat. I wouldn't rule it out, but, I think a partial or whole print would be a better bet. Just my opinion. If LE had the POI;s DNA, I think we would have heard rumors of LE swabbing friends, ex-'s, and neighbors. I could be wrong. (another thing I would have tested in Jk's car is the radio station which was on when the car was found. Some perp. are stupid enough to tune in their favorite stations on stolen cars.)

I promise: this is the last time I will bring up the height of the POI. What concerns me is as follows: Drew Kesse was quoted as saying, " at least we know the POI is 5:3-5'5, and hence we can target people of that height, and not look at taller people. That concerns me.

Also, my theory about the illegial alien is as follows: Le originally gets a look at the POI and thinks he has a "funky" hairdo, which appears to be dark hair (the rest of us believe the POI is wearing a hat or helmet, etc.). Then, LE gets a height est. of 5"3-5"5, which is extremely short for the US. Plus, put in the neighborhood where the car is found, maybe, the POI is an alien. That is at least my take. I could be wrong.

UK, you mentioned about the KEsse's statements to the POI, about coming forward before it is too late, and getting caught up in something. True, it does make one think LE or the KEsse's believe the POI is an accomplice. However, many times, such statements are prepared by police in an attempt to make criminals think LE knows more than they do, or to throw a bone to the POI and make him think that everyone thinks he was at the wrong place at the wrong time. Again, just my opinion.

I hope we are all wrong and the police are tracking the perp. and ready to make an arrest. If not, I think it is time to re-assign this case to the cold squad unit. I think, two detectives, working full time on this case, could crack this case in less than two months. I really believe that. I think something has been overlooked, or an error has been made along the way.

left

uk, mystery, keep up the good ideas. Let's nail this s.o.b.

UK Sleuth

03-27-2007, 06:09 AM

In total agreement with all of that.

When I said DNA perhaps I was being a bit specific, I meant some evidence to link somebody so DNA or fingerprint/fibres.

Keep Sleuthing folks.

Myserty64

03-27-2007, 06:23 AM

I hope I'm wrong too but I don't think an arrest is imminent. The months just keep on slipping by and nothing happens.
I have been perplexed by the lack of media coverage in Orlando this case has had. I can only check online sources but there has been practically no coverage for months.
There was a flurry of activity on the first anniversary but now the coverage has faded away.

I'm no expert in DNA but I believe a strand of hair (with the root) or a flake of skin is sufficient to extract DNA. Since we are shedding hair and skin all the time you would think something came from the car.

If in fact there are photographs of the POI parking the car I wonder if there is evidence of him wiping the car clean? Or did he wear gloves?
Did he drive with his beret/head wear on?
If he didn't wear gloves there must have been some finger prints?

This crime is very clean which indicates it was planned rather than a crime of opportunity. Or did the perpetrator just get lucky like he was with the posts in the photos?

As I have written previously the best chance for a break through is getting a match in a data base with whatever evidence they have from the car.

UK Sleuth

03-27-2007, 07:17 AM

The only real clues to go on are the car and the poi picture.

Lets give LE their due, for whatever reason the poi is linked, it seems fairly clear to me that they believe the poi dumped the car.

Everything else is hearsay and theory although I am making an assumption that the poi dumped the car.

We dont know what time JK was abducted, where and by whom.

Most people feel that this was a planned abduction, if so the car is frustrating to me.

If you were to plan an abduction I would think that you would plan to take the person in your vehicle not theirs.

Your vehicle being stolen or fake plates so you cant be tied back to the crime from your registered vehicle.

You wouldnt plan to take someone in their own car as you would then have a disposal issue of having to get rid of the car thus exposing you to CCTV as has happened and the possibility of evidence to link you to the crime such as prints, fibres, hair, etc.

In the same vein it has been suggested the car was moved to throw LE off the scent, again why would you do this if it was planned, you are exposing yourself to the same things.

A planned abduction would be grab the person, put them into your vehicle and go, what evidence do you leave?

You could argue that this case strangely has more to go on than other dissapearances, trouble is we cant connect the dots.

Im starting more and more to wonder if this was a planned abduction that went a bit wrong, perhaps JK got into her car before the abduction could take place but it went ahead at gun point in her car.

If it were planned the rest of the plan wouldnt change your just left with the problem of the car and not your own car which you could clean of any evidence.

I think the person/s whom did this have got incredibly lucky with that picture because quite frankly you would barely recognise your best friend in a still like that.

Again its more theory but I have a hunch if planned it didnt go quite to the plan.

Myserty64

03-27-2007, 09:07 AM

Due to UK Sleuth I got interested in the Suzy Lamplugh case in England.
In this case there is no body and very little evidence but it seems fairly obvious who did it.
The suspect is already in jail for another murder but he isn't in any hurry to admit to the Lamplugh one.
The police don't have enough to charge him either so it's likely the case will remain unsolved.
The case above shows just how difficult it can be to get a homicide case to court.
Sadly I believe it will be the same in the Jennifer Kesse case.

Whatever the risk, by moving her car, the POI got himself two days leeway or get away time.
I tend to believe the crime scene is most likely in another vehicle or at least she was transported in another vehicle.

I have seen theories where she was abducted by someone she knew and her car was actually dropped at Huntington by someone the perpetrator knew. This means the POI thought he was leaving the car there as a favor and is not involved in the abduction.
The problem here is why hasn't the POI come forward?

I'm not sure if UK knows this but in the early stage of the investigation the lead detective remarked that 'this is as close to a vanishing as he has seen.'
Maybe that explains why this case is where it is today.
The police are very good at what they do but they are not magicians. They have to have something to work with.

UK Sleuth

03-27-2007, 09:48 AM

Glad you looked into it.

That case was so huge over here, its weird when so many people vanish but there seem to be particular cases which stand out in the memory and are given greater media coverage than others.

I see a similar scenario in the JK case although its has been 14 months versus 21 years in the Lamplugh case.

I dont think they even had a suspect after 14 months in the Lamplugh case but they have got to a point in time where they are pretty convinced she was murdered, who did it and an idea of where she is buried.

This hasnt brought closure to the Lamplugh family im sure but some sort of acceptance of her fate and where she may reside.

I hope in the future that JK is found for the Kesse's sake or they get some sort of idea of what happened at the minute they just havent got a clue of where, when or whom was involved.

leftcoast

03-27-2007, 03:02 PM

Another thought about moving JK's car:

there have been other criminals, like BTK, and INman, who haved parked their cars a few miles from the crime scene, used the victims car to retreive their own personal car, and then driven away. This, of course, eliminates the possibility of a witness seeing a strange car, and potentially writing down the license plate number. For example in BTK case, he was driving a company van, which may have played a role in his decision. In those cases, the victims were found at their own houses, whereas in this case, JK's whereabouts are unknown. One has to wonder if the advancements in DNA has anything to do with this.

Another possibility is as follows: If the perp. in this case resides in JK's complex, you could see where moving JK's car to another location would take some of the heat off of Mosaic. It would also give the perp. a few days to hide evidence.

I would love to know the exact route the police dog took, once it sniffed Jk''s car and supposedly took the handler back to Mosaic, using the back roads, or so it is told.

For example, is that route, popular with joggers, bicycle riders? or is that area infested with homeless? How would someone from another area, know about this route, and remember this route, at such a stressful time. And supposedly jump a fence, in order to gain access to Mosaic.

If true, why did the POI want to avoid the front gate and the main street?

I really think the route the police dog took is a huge clue.

Part of me is still very suspicious of the timing between when the Kesse's contacted Mosaic management to report JK missing (around 11:15am), and the time that JK's car was dumped (45 minutes later, or noon). Is this just a coincidence, or did the POI know the heat was on?

If I could interview one person about this case, I would love to talk the manager of the MOsaic. These managers know everything about residents, habits, employess, etc. They also know about former residents, contractors, transients living nearby, trouble tenants, etc. I just can't believe nobody has provided that essential clue.

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Myserty64

03-27-2007, 09:51 PM

I used to wonder why people just vanish too and I have read some truly shocking cases on this subject.
I finally realised there are predators out there and they are on the prowl looking for an opportunity. Most of them just drive around until they see someone who matches their evil fantasy.
In it can be a school kid waiting for a bus or a young lady waiting with her car that has broken down. It can be someone walking along a deserted road late at night or in the early hours of the morning.
Sometimes it can be a person just walking to their car in a mall parking lot.
If a person's path crosses that of a predator then that person is in grave danger.

This what I believe happened with Jennifer Kesse. She could have been seen on her balcony or observed leaving for work or even noticed by a worker at Mosaic. Her path crossed that of a predator who was on the hunt for prey.
We have been told Jennifer was safety conscious and even made safe calls when walking across a deserted parking lot or had workmen in her condo.
She must have been taken completely by surprise and with great speed. It must have been like that because she left for work between 7 and 8am which is in daylight with others leaving for work also.
Despite all of this nobody saw a thing.

Myserty64

03-27-2007, 10:27 PM

DNA

I don't know too much about extracting DNA but I understand it can be taken from a strand of hair (with the root) or a skin cell.
We are continually shedding hair and skin so there must have been some of the POI's skin or hair in the car.
I wonder if the POI wore gloves? Also, did he wear his beret or whatever he has on while driving?

If the POI didn't wear gloves there must have been prints in the car.

If there are photos of the POI parking the car was he shown to be wiping the car down to get rid of the prints?

There just has to be some evidence.

I'd crawl over broken glass to see the police file on this case.

UK Sleuth

03-28-2007, 05:43 AM

Left thats an excellent point about the timing of JK going missing phone call and the car being dumped.

Thats is very coincidental isnt it?

I think most of the pointers in this case go to somebody very local who knows the area intimately.

Im still convinced that wherever she was taken was not very far away at all.

leftcoast

03-28-2007, 10:06 AM

thanks UK

Yes, the timing of JK's parents calling around, and boom, JK's car is parked within 30 minutes is very suspicious. Then, we find out the POI supposedly walks back to Mosaic. If I were the detective on this case, I sure would want to know what people were told in the first half hour that JK was missing. Sure, it could be a coincidence. But, it is worth checking out.

Either way, I agree with you that JK was not taken far.
That the perp. is from that area, knows it well.
And the manner in which the car is parked. Definitely someone who has a driver's license. That car was parked perfectly in that space.

Another thing: people have suggested the POI was innocent, and just doing a favor dumping a car. If so, why did he take the backroads to Mosaic, and why didn't he come forward? Because, in my mind, the POI is the perp., and he acted alone.

If you look at the majority of cases, at least 90% of the cases are ones in which the perp. acted alone.

I still argue if the POI was just an accomplice, they would have taken JK's car to the other side of town and burned it. IMO in this case, he couldn't because he needed the car parked close to Mosaic in order to either get back home, or to his vehicle, or to his job at Mosaic.

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UK Sleuth

03-28-2007, 11:47 AM

More good points I think you should take on the case left(and im not joking!)

I was just looking on findjenniferkesse.com and HOTG is marked with a B and another location with an F.

Is the F where JK lived?(I couldnt see it saying Mosaic on the map)

Maybe I am missing something?

leftcoast

03-28-2007, 12:19 PM

Thanks UK for the compliment. I just want this case solved, whatever it takes. I wouldn't rule out anything.

As for the picture. Yes, "F" on that diagram is JK's condo site, Mosaic. You can see how close it actually is from HOTG. Supposedly, there is actually a bus that runs along that street, with a stop by HOTG. Yet, the POI decided he would rather walk. I wonder why?

If you blow up the picture of HOTG, you get a good look at the poolhouse, the pool, and the two gates in which one would enter the pool area. On top of the poolhouse, just underneath the eaves, are the two camera's, which in my opinion, are both pointed at the poolgates, that took the infamous picture of the POI.

You can see what a sharp angle it would be for that second camera, if it was pointed at the second gate, for it to pick up JK's car being parked. Remember, there is also a building next to the poolhouse, which may block some of the view. It all depends on the angle of the camera, and if JK's car was parked in the second or third spot (some say second, I think it was parked in the third spot).

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Myserty64

03-28-2007, 08:36 PM

Myserty64

03-28-2007, 08:45 PM

There were a lot of registered sex offenders living around the area of both Mosaic and Huntington at the time of the abduction. This is something that has been forgotten as the months have gone by. One would think that most of these people would have been questioned by police.

Does anyone remember the 'creepy' guy that approached one of the ladies living at Mosaic. He did this at the gym at Mosaic and it had a very negative effect on her as she was totally spooked. I have been trying to find this report.

hoppyfrog

03-28-2007, 09:04 PM

DNA

I don't know too much about extracting DNA but I understand it can be taken from a strand of hair (with the root) or a skin cell.
We are continually shedding hair and skin so there must have been some of the POI's skin or hair in the car.

I watched a recent National Geographic channel show about training tracking dogs. It stated that each of us sheds dead skin cells at the rate of 40,000 per minute. The scent from those cells is what enables dogs to track. Pretty amazing, IMO!

Hoppy

Myserty64

03-28-2007, 09:29 PM

Boy that is amazing and thanks for the info!

The Chevy Malibu must have had enough evidence for forensic testing.

hoppyfrog

03-28-2007, 11:09 PM

Boy that is amazing and thanks for the info!

The Chevy Malibu must have had enough evidence for forensic testing.

I simply don't know, however, if dead skin cells can yield any or enough DNA for testing. Anyone know? Then there's the problem of having dead skin cells from many different people in the car, like anyone who ever rode in it.

Hoppy

leftcoast

03-29-2007, 12:55 AM

F is not where Mosaic Condos are, Mosaic is opposite the Mall at Millenia.
I believe most of the Google Earth photos are a bit out of date as can be expected.
I don't know what F is supposed to indicate unless it is mistakingly placed.

UK: Actually, Mosaic is at 3573 Conroy Road, which according to Mapquest is about 600 feet west of point "F" on that diagram. If you look at the map, Mosaic is even with a street called "Moxie" boulevard. The Mosaci complex doesn't appear to be on that Google Earth shot. Maybe, for simplicity, the maker of the map used the closest intersectin to Mosaic, since Mosaic isn't shown on the map anyway. Who knows. But, the major theme is that "F" is in the general area of where Mosaic is located, which is the main purpose of the map.

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leftcoast

03-29-2007, 12:58 AM

leftcoast

03-29-2007, 01:06 AM

About DNA

I seriously doubt that LE has DNA from the POI. While possible, it is my belief we would have heard about people being swabbed by LE, and I believe this case would be much further along.

Sure, you can get DNA from hair follicles, saliva on a bottle, swabbing the mouth, blood, sperm, etc., but, I have never heard of getting DNA from a skin cell found in a car. I'm not an expert, but, if someone knows more.

Even if a potential perp. DNA is found in the car, he may be a friend of JK's, a relative, co-worker, etc. and may be able to explain away a hair follicle found. The best evidence would be any evidence where LE knows for 100% certainty that the perp. left his DNA, such as blood, and bodily fluids, etc.

I still say that prints in the car are 100 times more likely than finding DNA in that car and saying it is from the perp.

left.

leftcoast

03-29-2007, 02:50 AM

I don't think a perpetrator would be waiting around for a bus. Not if public transport in Orlando is anything like it is where I live. There could also be a lot of witnesses on a bus and passengers tend to give those boarding a good 'once over.'
I wonder if the POI parked his own car at Huntington or very close by and walked to Mosaic before the abduction? When he was photographed at Huntington he could have been walking to his escape vehicle. As you say anything is possible.

Mystery:
When I joked about why "didn't the POi take the bus", it was just that, a joke.

I seriously doubt that the POI parked his car at the HOTG, and then committed the crime. Why?

- Because I believe it would be foolish to park your own car next to where you are dropping a car that is stolen. Potential witnesses.

- Also, how do we know that the POI didn't try to abduct Jk on that MOnday, and she went straight to work from Rob's? Thus, he would have had to walk one mile each way, not to mention, risk people seeing him.

- One would think that the route the police dog took would tell the canine officer if this was possible. for example, if the route is entirely on sidewalks, and through the woods, it would almost be impossible. In addition, one would think that the dog would be able to distinguish between the different scents, one scent earlier in the day before the crime, and another after potentially hurting JK, then driving her car, and exiting her car. I will admit, I am not a expert on tracking, it is just my opinion.

I still think you have a point, but, you would think the POI would park his car closer to jk's, if not at Jk's condo. this way, if she wasn't home, or if witnesses were around, etc, he wouldn't have to walk another mile back to his car.

Like I have learned through looking at another cold case, you really gain so much intelligence by visiting crime scenes. Hence, without visiting Mosiac, and HOTG, and walking the route the POI supposedly took, it is hard to visualize the entire thing. That is why the excellent detectives, will visit each crime scene, and walk through the entire scene, and the steps that the perp. took , to gain what the perp. saw, and how well planned the crime was.

I certainly hope that the detectives assigned to this case, took the time to walk the same route the POI took, at the same time, and the same day of the week, in order to gain intelligence, and even possibly find a witness or two. We are creatures of habit, and you never know who goes for a daily, weekly, etc, walk, run, bicycle ride through a certain area, until you wear out shoe leather and start asking questions. Of course, now, a year later, it is a bit late.

left