AR-Could you know this girl?

[teonspaleprincess]

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/81ufar.html

[Camper]

I have sent this link to my email line, it is far reaching.

Someone is grieving for this young lady and wondering where she is.

It is a small world, can we all do anything less than to email it on?

.

[annemc2]

There was a thread about this girl in the Cold Cases section awhile back. Of course, it too went cold, with so little info to go on. I think about this girl often, and wonder who she really was. It really boggles the mind to see how many unidentified people there are out there. No one exists in a vacuum.

[dottierainbow]

It's hard to believe no one has come forward on this one. How many woman do you know that are 5'11"? That alone would make her stand out.

[teonspaleprincess]

I have spent hours going over missing persons in Florida, since that is where she is expected to be from. I cannot find anyone that even resembles her. My guess is that she isn't on a missing persons list, maybe a foster child who fell through the cracks. She is probably listed as shorter if she is reported missing, seeing as she had been on her own for a few years and probably grew taller during her teen years.

[Camper]

I don't know the figures, but am guessing that most everyone has a computer and email these days.

What a great venue to alert people about the missing than to send an email to all of your personal email lists. Then everyone passes it on when all people get the email. Emails from friends are read!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU all have those email addresses of friends who receive goodies from you, jokes, recipes or special information, etc., your friends have addresses of other folks that you may not be aware of, friendships spread throughout the GLOBE.

Somewhere a mother or father are using their email everyday, and sitting and suffering from worry about a missing family member.

WE the people have a vehicle for alerting others about missing people, I think people will care enough to look at the links with information on found and unidentified missing people. OR freshly missing individuals.

The world has become a much smaller place for us, it is up to us all to help in this process.

.

[*02]

This reminds me of the Sharon Marshall case, you know someone out there knows who she really is. Where are they, when will they come forward?

[christine2448]

I will put her on my MySpace page and add her to the blog. Have several to add this weekend. You would be amazed out how many people get to see the information I have posted there and everyone that has me on their 'friends' list get's to see her picture once it's posted and everyone that views anyone's page I am associated with will see her picture. There are all kinds of people working on MySpace to find the missing and UID'd. From housewives to PI's, from LE agencies to bounty hunters.

http://www.myspace.com/do_u_recognize_me


Who knows, maybe someone will recognize her!

ETA: Maybe I will make her a page for herself...need to see how much info I can gather.

[teonspaleprincess]

Thank you so much. I really think that this is one person that can be identified. The pictures are clear and she is so pretty, maybe that will encourage people to take a closer look.

[teonspaleprincess]

I am doing a lot of bumping today, lol, but I want to keep some of these cases in the forefront, it is easy to forget about them the further they get in the back logs here.

[LisainWV]

I always keep this girl's image in my mind when I'm surfing through the missing files on Doe. From her story, she just sounded like a lost soul even while living and for her to be un id'ed seems so sad.

I agree that she's probably not listed as missing from anywhere.

[Sable]

When I first heard of this case, I thought maybe it could be Lisa Jane Borden missing from Big Spring TX. Unfortunately it's not likely they are a match because the eye color is different and the age is off. Lisa had brown eyes, the UID had blue eyes, and Lisa would have been 31 when the UID was found.

[teonspaleprincess]

I definately don't think it is Lisa, the look is much different from the pictures I have seen of Lisa. A while back, there was a thread about a lot of unidentified pictures that may have been victims of a killer, and I swear one looked like Lisa but I can't find the thread.

[LisainWV]

What about this girl?

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/m/mcginness_kelli.html

Some of the aliases the Doe used are similar??

Height is off quite a bit....

[kittykat1]

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/81ufar.html



For someone who is unidentified, they sure do have a lot of pictures of her! What do you think??

[SeriouslySearching]

Thanks, Lisa! They do have a lot of photos...but they seem to know a lot about her, where she has been, where she worked, who she lived with...just not her real identity. It sounds like she was quite a little con artist if they believe she was wanted for Bank Robbery etc.

[Salem]

What about this girl?

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/m/mcginness_kelli.html

Some of the aliases the Doe used are similar??

Height is off quite a bit....

Lisa - did you call this one in? I put the pictures side by side and if you take the younger picture from the Doe network and compare it to the last picture in the top row of the Charleyproject - it is pretty uncanny. The young lady has a very distinctive nose and hair line. I think this is a pretty good match and definitly worth calling in.

Salem

[teonspaleprincess]

I called it in, but I never heard back. Maybe one of us should call and ask for an update?

[*02]

there is quite a big discrepancy in age here:
Kelli:
Missing Since: June 28, 1983 from Seattle, Washington
Classification: Endangered Missing
Date Of Birth: April 17, 1965
Age: 18 years old

UID:
Located on July 10, 1991 in El Dorado, Union County, Arkansas
Estimated age: 18 - 21 years old

Kelli was 18 in 1983 and our UID was estimated to be 18 in 1991?

[teonspaleprincess]

The Summerfield Jane Doe was close to 30 and they estimated her to be between 18-21. I wouldn't discount her based on age. They look so much alike!!!

[dannyodie]

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=211573507

unless a friend or family member is logging in. it appears someone logged onto her myspace account 4 days after she went missing?

[Hiker]

It is becoming more common for LE to contact Myspace and to be allowed into an account to check for clues when people go missing. A single log-in doesn't necessarily mean anything. Multiple log-in probably do.

[mel36]

What about this girl?

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/m/mcginness_kelli.html

Some of the aliases the Doe used are similar??

Height is off quite a bit....

Her pimp reported her missing?? First time I have ever heard of a caring pimp lol sorry but didn't the cops think that was odd sounds like the pimp was affraid of being fingered for her disapearance if someone else reported her missing.

[MeoW333]

"A detective found a copy of a letter sent from the police to the FBI stating that the suspect had said that her name was "Kelly Lee Carr" age 24, and that she was wanted in Virginia and along the East Coast for bank robbery."
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/81ufar.html

So was this doe wanted for bank robbery on the eastern seaboard? Could they fingerprint her and see if any sealed juvenile records come up? Maybe if she had a juvenile record it would be under her real name..

[Fairy1]

This girl has always been my 1st choice:

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/m/mcginness_kelli.html

[WholeLottaRosie]

This girl has always been my 1st choice:

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/m/mcginness_kelli.html

I agree - I have long thought this - does anyone know if this has been called in, or if yes, has there been any answer Kelli McGinness looks SOOO much like Jane Doe.

[Zanko]

Here is a side by side comparison. Kelly McGinness was reported missing in 1983. This Jane Doe was found in 1991. She would be 8 years older. I, too, think it's a likely match. I'm thrown off by the age and height, but in the past this things have been reported wrong. Kelly McGinness' height may have been a guess by a family member???

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z99/Zanko123/KellyCarrKellyMcGinness.jpg

[ineedtoreadthenews]

If that isn't her, it's her identical twin. I'd be surprised if it hadn't been checked, but you should call it in.

[believe09]

Someone call it in! At least they will tell you if Kelly McGinniss has already been ruled out....

[christine2448]

Has Kelly/UID been submitted as possible match to LE yet? By whom?

If not I'd be happy to take care of.

[kylie]

Jane Doe has a long history and I think the "18-21" age range is way understated. This looks like a good match. Jane Doe looks much older- 28-35 in my opinion- so I think this should be submitted.

[Mr. E]

I thought those were two photos of the same woman when I clicked on the comparison photo.

[bluestarzz]

that sure looks like a match to me !!!!!
bluestarzz

[chaddylex]

Wow!! Sure looks like a match!! Turn it in!!

chaddylex:)

[christine2448]

I will submit possible match in the morning if no one answers me about it being turned in by then. I will get as much info I can on the UID. The nose and the wieght of Kelli vs the many pics of UID is off for me. However, I stink at comparing by pics.

[Reality Orlando]

Not sure if this will work or help, but I transposed one image over the other...looks goofy but you can see that the eyes and nose match up perfectly.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c32/menonemo/KellyCarrKellyMcGinness-copy.gif

[Gray]

Here is a side by side comparison. Kelly McGinness was reported missing in 1983. This Jane Doe was found in 1991. She would be 8 years older. I, too, think it's a likely match. I'm thrown off by the age and height, but in the past this things have been reported wrong. Kelly McGinness' height may have been a guess by a family member???

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z99/Zanko123/KellyCarrKellyMcGinness.jpg

Oh. my. gosh. They are identical!

Not just the nose, the chin, the jaw, the lips, the hair line...

If she is as old as they say, then it's very possible that she has lost weight in between the pictures.

I will be shocked if this is not the same girl.

[Vask]

That side by side did it for me.

[jules19osu]

I have this potential match as ruled out by Union County Coroner Dentals back in February of 2004 from a list of ruled outs I have. It looked so promising!! :-(

[Gray]

I have this potential match as ruled out by Union County Coroner Dentals back in February of 2004 from a list of ruled outs I have. It looked so promising!! :-(

Aw, that's sad. :( It did... the same lifestyle, same use of aliases, same LOOK. I wish it would've been her.

[believe09]

Christine wanted me to post that the Coroner stated Kelli was ruled out. It might require a more detailed discussion with the detective because Kelli has no DNA on file, so it must have been something pretty strong that ruled her out...like prints or dentals.

[youshouldveknown]

Just a side note about the pimp reporting her missing.

It says she was a high class hooker, meaning she worked for the more wealthy people. A pimp making $500-1000 a john is more likely to miss a girl than a pimp making $10-20 a john. Think of Heidi Fleiss - she took care of her girls because they took care of her. A run-of-the-mill low end pimp isn't going to care that much because it's not worth it to him.

Just my thoughts on that. I've always had a wierd fascination with prostitutes and I never knew why. I never wanted to BE one, but I always thought they were interesting. A few years back my grandmother told me about her aunt - a high class hooker with fur coats and diamonds and a new car (in WWII era). I told her 'maybe that's why I love prostitutes' and my grandmother said 'I always have too.' Haha.

[future criminologist]

Just a side note about the pimp reporting her missing.

It says she was a high class hooker, meaning she worked for the more wealthy people. A pimp making $500-1000 a john is more likely to miss a girl than a pimp making $10-20 a john. Think of Heidi Fleiss - she took care of her girls because they took care of her. A run-of-the-mill low end pimp isn't going to care that much because it's not worth it to him.

Just my thoughts on that. I've always had a wierd fascination with prostitutes and I never knew why. I never wanted to BE one, but I always thought they were interesting. A few years back my grandmother told me about her aunt - a high class hooker with fur coats and diamonds and a new car (in WWII era). I told her 'maybe that's why I love prostitutes' and my grandmother said 'I always have too.' Haha.

ME TOO! I thought I was the only one with this fascination...

my thoughts on this are: our UID was probably never reported missing, if she was the con artist that she seems to be, if those that knew her real identity thought that she had left willingly. So I don't know that looking in missing persons files would necessarily help.

I really do think it will just have to be a "do you recognize this girl from 1990" posting everywhere and see if a relative or someone happens to recognize the picture. maybe if a publication of some sort wrote a story on the mystery.

[christine2448]

Christine wanted me to post that the Coroner stated Kelli was ruled out. It might require a more detailed discussion with the detective because Kelli has no DNA on file, so it must have been something pretty strong that ruled her out...like prints or dentals.

I am not sure if you are giving the DNA info based on our tele earlier....I meant to state that the UID does NOT have DNA in CODIS as far as the coroner remembered but LE has the file and I couldn't get the det. while on lunch today, coroner said they hold all info and I should speak with them to get more details.

I'm working on it.

[Blackwatch]

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/81ufar.html

How about this one for a match - the age is close, the height is not too far off, she did dabble in prostitution, lots of "sames".
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/t/trollinger_nikki.html

Let me know what you think.

[Fairy1]

Here is a side by side comparison. Kelly McGinness was reported missing in 1983. This Jane Doe was found in 1991. She would be 8 years older. I, too, think it's a likely match. I'm thrown off by the age and height, but in the past this things have been reported wrong. Kelly McGinness' height may have been a guess by a family member???

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z99/Zanko123/KellyCarrKellyMcGinness.jpg

I cannot believe this isn't a match - look at them! I would have to assume they had fingerprints on both of these ladies, based on their lifestyles. But mistakes can be made and I do feel this is one possible that may need a bit of a push for a definite rule out. Thanks, Zanko, for the side-by-side!

[christine2448]

I cannot believe this isn't a match - look at them! I would have to assume they had fingerprints on both of these ladies, based on their lifestyles. But mistakes can be made and I do feel this is one possible that may need a bit of a push for a definite rule out. Thanks, Zanko, for the side-by-side!

We don't give up easy. I plan on talking to det tomorrow and getting SPECIFICS. ;)

[Fairy1]

We don't give up easy. I plan on talking to det tomorrow and getting SPECIFICS. ;)

Thank God for you!!! :blowkiss:

[Vask]

We don't give up easy. I plan on talking to det tomorrow and getting SPECIFICS. ;)

Any news on the specifics?

[JaneInOz]

I know they look very alike but the facial features are distinctively different
Also the Last photo of Kelli is way older looking than the UID
Also the height 5'5 V 5'11 is a huge difference

[Danaya]

This girl has always been my 1st choice:

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/m/mcginness_kelli.html

Wow, that really looks like her! The only thing I would wonder is, what was she doing for the six or seven years between the time of her dissapearance and the time she was found? It didn't seem like she left with any of her belongings and it looked like she was picked up by a john and then murdered. This means if it's her, she would have skipped town and not left a trace until 1991...

[JaneInOz]

You know , having revisited this I do think the two pics side by side are very similar
the jaw line eye shape nose and so on
But that other photo of Kelli on the Kelli page ? what is that photo of ? Jane doe looks nothing like that picture
they also sayKelli is stocky

[BethInAK]

Here is a side by side comparison. Kelly McGinness was reported missing in 1983. This Jane Doe was found in 1991. She would be 8 years older. I, too, think it's a likely match. I'm thrown off by the age and height, but in the past this things have been reported wrong. Kelly McGinness' height may have been a guess by a family member???

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z99/Zanko123/KellyCarrKellyMcGinness.jpg


Holy Cow. I was thinking this was a long shot until you posted this.

[prd2bokie]

One thing would be to find out if the missing woman had freckles and a scar under her breast like the murder victim.

[Cymro]

They do look spookily similar and there is of course the "Kelly" name coincidence or clue (the spelling is irrelevant if it's an alias or street name, and even if not it's not that important.)

A 6" difference in height is huge though - it's the difference between me as a moderately tall man and my sister who is of slightly above average height for a woman. I suppose that someone who is very short or very tall (sub 5' or over 6'6") could get the heights confused but anyone else giving an estimate would have a pretty good idea whether Kelli was much, or a little bit, taller or shorter than their own height, and would estimate accordingly.

The weight/build thing doesn't shock me at all though - six years on the road and a drug habit would easily account for a change in weight.

[Fairy1]

I still think we should push a little harder on this one. The side-by-side facials are unbelievable!!!! I don't know how many times we've seen height, weight, distiguishing characteristics, etc., off one way or the other. Particularly with someone with this lifestyle.....

[allybeeb]

I still think we should push a little harder on this one. The side-by-side facials are unbelievable!!!! I don't know how many times we've seen height, weight, distiguishing characteristics, etc., off one way or the other. Particularly with someone with this lifestyle.....

Wow... I totally agree....

[Fairy1]

Anyone???

[BethInAK]

Anyone???

Submit it Fairy. Better to submit it than not to.

[badhorsie]

Yes,please submit. The likeness is astonishing :clap:

[LaLaw2000]

Any news yet?

[Fairy1]

I submitted to the state of Arkasas. Will let you all know as soon as I hear anything!!!

[jules19osu]

I thought this match was already ruled out by dentals?

[teonspaleprincess]

I thought this match was already ruled out by dentals?

I am pretty sure it was ruled out, but I am not sure it was by dentals or DNA or what.

[Fairy1]

I believe it was ruled out as well - however, we're not sure it was a true test. Normally, I wouldn't be quite so pushy (though I probably would!). But the side-by-side pics and the similarities in lifestyle, names, etc. lead some of us to believe they should dig as deep as possible - i.e....DNA. We're talking about 2 ladies of the evening here. Can we really be sure LE has exhausted all avenues????

No reply from Arkansas yet.

[jules19osu]

I believe it was ruled out as well - however, we're not sure it was a true test. Normally, I wouldn't be quite so pushy (though I probably would!). But the side-by-side pics and the similarities in lifestyle, names, etc. lead some of us to believe they should dig as deep as possible - i.e....DNA. We're talking about 2 ladies of the evening here. Can we really be sure LE has exhausted all avenues????

No reply from Arkansas yet.


I understand. That makes sense. Very true that they would have put little effort into the investigation knowing their line of work! Thanks...

[OC Lady]

Just wondering if Rebecca Dunn could be a match?

The Doe Network:
Case File 1374DFNV

Dunn, circa 1979

Rebecca Jean Dunn
Missing since April 1979 from Las Vegas, Clark County, Nevada.
Classification: Endangered Missing



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Vital Statistics

Date Of Birth: March 21, 1958
Age at Time of Disappearance: 21 years old
Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 5'8"; 150 lbs.
Distinguishing Characteristics: White female. Blonde hair; green eyes.
Marks, Scars: Bump on bridge of nose.
Dentals: Not available
DNA: Available


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Circumstances of Disappearance
Dunn was last seen in April, 1979 in Las Vegas, NV. The police knows she went missing in April 1979, but are not sure of the exact date. Foul play is suspected.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I know that the description of the UID gives an age of 18-21, but I think she's older than that.. Rebecca would have been around 32 in 1991...I think they look alot alike...what do you all think? Worth pursuing??

[teonspaleprincess]

OC Lady, that looks really good also. She has that same rounded jaw...good work.

[OC Lady]

Thanks Princess - also the UID looks like she might have a "bump" on her nose in a couple of the pictures...

It would be great if someone could do a side by side? I don't know how....

[capoly]

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=656&pictureid=5883

Let me know if you prefer a different photo for UID.

[OC Lady]

Thank you capoly...the hairline is a bit different...I don't know now that they are side by side...what do you guys think?

[legallee]

OMG! As soon as I clicked on the link and saw her picture, I told my husband she looked familiar..I scrolled down to read and wow this is my hometown!! SO perhaps I HAD seen her before. I was in college when she was murdered. She and I are close in age.
And I KNOW both detectives on this case personally. So if you guys have any solid leads, feel free to contact me. I can make sure it gets into the right hands.

[OC Lady]

Also I just noticed that Rebecca's description says green eyes and the UID description states blue eyes...still.....

[legallee]

I don't think it's the same girl.

[legallee]

the motel where she was murdered is a hang out for crack heads and prostitutes. Huge drug area.

[OC Lady]

Yeah - that's what I figured...and one of the reasons I thought Rebecca might be a match...she disappeared from Las Vegas and could have "worked" her way across the country - the UID had been in TX for awhile apparently...

[OC Lady]

capoly - can you do another side by side with the pic of the UID where she is smiling and has a red top?

Thanks.

[OC Lady]

capoly - can you do another side by side with the UID pic that shows her smiling with the red blouse on?
thanks.

[legallee]

Rebecca is too old. This girl was around 18-21 when she was murdered, which would mean she was born around 1970-1973

[capoly]

capoly - can you do another side by side with the pic of the UID where she is smiling and has a red top?

Thanks.


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=644&pictureid=5884

[OC Lady]

Thanks Capoly -

Legallee - yes, I realize that the dates/ages appear to be off - but as we all know, sometimes dates/ages/height/weight are off....in fact, in the narrative about the UID, there is a statement that she was 24...so I just don't want to reject any possibilities...

[JaneInOz]

Ive done a side by side of Kelly and the UID but I put two in of the UID one smiling one not
and then I chopped off Kellys hair

To me this girl is just so much a match ! its amazing the eyes The NOSE!!

The jaw

The mouth and lips

Imo Kelly looks a bit plumper than UID but that would figure because that was when she went missing and she was probably living fairly well eating well
Then if she got into drugs prostitution etc then she would look less plumpish in the cheeks

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=749&pictureid=5885

[JaneInOz]

Although it does state that The Green /River Killer said he killed her and led them to her bones and said he moved her as well.

But he could just be admitting to loads of killings

Anyone know if he has ever DENIED any ?

[gemma]

I'm a long time lurker and have viewed this thread many times. I happened to be bored tonight and did a regular copy/paste job in paint with the first side-by-side of Kelly/Kelli and the eyes pasted in perfectly. It was a little creepy. With the whole prostitute/frequent use of an alias thing, it adds to my suspicions that this is the same person. I still wouldn't be completely shocked if it was just a coincidence though. I can see how it would be easy to not know someone's most current height or weight within a few inches or pounds...especially if family and friends are only superficially involved. I can't wait to hear more.

[JaneInOz]

Looking at that pic (as in he said he killed Kelly Mcginnes - he might have been confused looking at her photo) you could almost think that Rebecca was killed by the Green River Killer who killed prostitutes
Maybe the bones were Rebeccas remains and not Kelly's

[OC Lady]

I think someone (fairy?) submitted Kelli McGinness as a possible match awhile back...has there been any response/follow-up?

[capoly]

Yeah - that's what I figured...and one of the reasons I thought Rebecca might be a match...she disappeared from Las Vegas and could have "worked" her way across the country - the UID had been in TX for awhile apparently...

I am trying to be unbiased in my opinion when comparing Rebecca/UID. Unfortunately, the Carr/McGinness likeness,even though it was said not to be a match, has been stuck in my head for months.

For Rebecca, my first thought was the photos of the deceased UID held a resemblance to her.

[capoly]

I'm a long time lurker and have viewed this thread many times. I happened to be bored tonight and did a regular copy/paste job in paint with the first side-by-side of Kelly/Kelli and the eyes pasted in perfectly. It was a little creepy. With the whole prostitute/frequent use of an alias thing, it adds to my suspicions that this is the same person. I still wouldn't be completely shocked if it was just a coincidence though. I can see how it would be easy to not know someone's most current height or weight within a few inches or pounds...especially if family and friends are only superficially involved. I can't wait to hear more.


Try inverting the colors. Very creepy. But for me it makes it easier to see differences in space & form.

[JaneInOz]

I totally agree about the likeness of Kelly MicGinness

But The Green River Killer as I said took responsibility for her death and showed the LE her bones
BUT then I read this here http://www.antidavereichert.com/greenrivertimeline.htm

1983 Feb 23 Ridgway has a ``date'' with Kelly McGinness at South 140th Street and 22nd Avenue South in his 1975 Dodge pickup. It is interrupted by a Port of Seattle police officer.

and then

1983 June 28 Kelly K. McGinness, 18, is last seen on Pacific Highway South. Her remains have never been found.

But this from JaneDoeNetwork


McGinnis was last seen in Seattle, Washington on June 28, 1983. She was in the area of The Three Bears Motel at South 216th Street and Pacific Highway South. She may have been a victim of the Green River Serial Killer, Gary Ridgeway. Gary Ridgeway admitted to killing her and led them to a small amount of bones and claims to have moved some or part of these remains to another location. It is necessary to keep her case open for future comparisons.

I don't know .............Ridgeway seemed to kill Prostitutes Was Kelly one ?

Unless (as I tend to believe) he had an accomplice who Killed Kelly .......

[JaneInOz]

Everything I have read tells me that he did not kill Kelly Mcginnes - he doesnt even KNOW half of the people he killed he admitted so

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/10/31/national/main581112.shtml

I killed the 48 women listed in the state's second amended information. In most cases when I killed these women I did not know their names. Most of the time I killed them the first time I met them and I do not have a good memory of their faces. I killed so many women I have a hard time keeping them straight.

I have discussed with my attorneys the common scheme or plan, aggravating circumstance charged in all of these murders. I agree that each of the murders I committed was part of a common scheme or plan. The plan was I wanted to kill as many women I thought were prostitutes as I possibly could.


I just don't think He killed Kelly

Most of the victims i have seen all have a similar look and had involvement in prostitution

I don't think he killed Kelly MicGiness or another girl (who was 8.5mths pregnant) and even a few others

I think it could well be likely that the UID is Kelly - the likeness is just too overwhelming.

Does anyone know how she died ?

[beckaroozie]

What about this girl? She looks an awful lot like her..age fits, above avg height, hair/eyes, was into prostitution and in group homes from age 16 when she disappeared.

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/349dfca.html


http://i359.photobucket.com/albums/oo38/beckaroozie/NTrollinger-group.jpg

What do you think? She even has the same 'chin thing' going on..crinklies.

[JaneInOz]

You know there is just one thing that bothers me with the UID and Kelly McGinness and that is the ears The UID;s stick right out as in the lobes - Kellys do not

[JaneInOz]

What about this girl? She looks an awful lot like her..age fits, above avg height, hair/eyes, was into prostitution and in group homes from age 16 when she disappeared.

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/349dfca.html

What do you think?

And she was into prostitution - This girl probably was murdered by the Green River Killer

Ive done a side by side

I do agree they look similar and the EARS Stick out too !!!

Id like to see a front face shot l of this girl to be sure

The eyes seem a little different but then she has lots of photos that all look varying


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=749&pictureid=5908




This is a better photo of her

http://www.ci.garden-grove.ca.us/?q=police/missing/trollinger

[beckaroozie]

That's the only photo that was on the site. I agree a frontal would seal it. I'll do a search on her name and see if there are more, but I don't think there will be. :(

[beckaroozie]

Here's another view of that photo - with a partial body shot.

http://www.ci.garden-grove.ca.us/?q=police/missing/trollinger

[jules19osu]

What about this girl? She looks an awful lot like her..age fits, above avg height, hair/eyes, was into prostitution and in group homes from age 16 when she disappeared.

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/349dfca.html


http://i359.photobucket.com/albums/oo38/beckaroozie/NTrollinger-group.jpg

What do you think? She even has the same 'chin thing' going on..crinklies.

I have her listed as ruled out on an old list I have. It says she was ruled out on 2/18/04 by Dentals.....

[beckaroozie]

Thanks very much then Jules! :)

[MadeaBecBec]

I received an email (on Jan 9)from Chris Edwards, AR Crime Lab Chief ME, he said that DNA comparisons ruled Ms. McGinnis out. He agreed that they were very similar in looks, lifestyle,etc. but that they have DNA for Kelli in CODIS (taken from her daughter & Mom) and these two were compared, no match. Also, fingerprints did not match! Mr. Edwards sincerely appreciates everyone's help in indentifying this female...
If a JD has a DNA profile it will be compared to Kelli....
I do believe that the Trollinger girl, favors this JD in their facial features.. Not sure if they will have DNA on Ms. Trollinger, but, she should have fingerprints. I had already listed her (in my own notes) as a possible!

If you would like to submit a missing female via email, here is Chris Edwards email; chris.edwards@crimelab.arkansas.gov be sure to put JD's case number & missing persons NCIC number, if the missing person has yet to have DNA entered into CODIS, then they can do dental comparisons & fingerprints.
Back to sleuthing & searching....:woohoo:



Jeremiah 29:11-14

[beckaroozie]

I received an email (on Jan 9)from Chris Edwards, AR Crime Lab Chief ME, he said that DNA comparisons ruled Ms. McGinnis out. He agreed that they were very similar in looks, lifestyle,etc. but that they have DNA for Kelli in CODIS (taken from her daughter & Mom) and these two were compared, no match. Also, fingerprints did not match! Mr. Edwards sincerely appreciates everyone's help in indentifying this female...
If a JD has a DNA profile it will be compared to Kelli....
I do believe that the Trollinger girl, favors this JD in their facial features.. Not sure if they will have DNA on Ms. Trollinger, but, she should have fingerprints. I had already listed her (in my own notes) as a possible!

If you would like to submit a missing female via email, here is Chris Edwards email; chris.edwards@crimelab.arkansas.gov be sure to put JD's case number & missing persons NCIC number, if the missing person has yet to have DNA entered into CODIS, then they can do dental comparisons & fingerprints.
Back to sleuthing & searching....:woohoo:



Jeremiah 29:11-14

Thanks Madea...Another poster put this a few posts above and said that Nikki Trollinger had been ruled out by dentals quite a while back. See this post:

I have her listed as ruled out on an old list I have. It says she was ruled out on 2/18/04 by Dentals.....


I guess it's back to the drawing board!

[christine2448]

I am bending over for my beating....I was working on this, and it is in a pile of like, 200 files.....and it got shifted to the bottom....God forgive me :(


kk....(I swear I posted this!!!!!) If I did (I searched and found 3 posts by me here, maybe there is another thread for one or the other on WS?? Going to look, will be back to finish post, I may just need to copy and paste ;) )

K, Believe09 posted back in beginning of thread as did I that LE said Kelly and UID were ruled out. I talked to Mr Tom Jensen, the det. that worked the Green River Killer case, he said she was ruled out, IIRC, was done by circumstance and lots of LE work. Not by DNA, or Dentals, IIRC. He seemed convinced, and I have much respect for him.

Based on what WE know, I am not convinced it's not her... BUT, who am I. I talked to him for 40 minutes and he knows his stuff. He is trying to ID all the victims of the Green River Killings.

I am sorry I didn't post this earlier....take it for what it's worth..?

I know I have notes from our convo, but I just rearranged my house and some files have been shuffled, my filed named 'KELLI MCGINNESS/UIFAR 7/10/91AK is missing the paperwork from Kelli....that is what lead me to believe I may have 2 cases on this. (still can't a separate thread on WS posted for Kelli anywhere on WS.) I am sorry.

[MadeaBecBec]

I am bending over for my beating....I was working on this, and it is in a pile of like, 200 files.....and it got shifted to the bottom....God forgive me :(


kk....(I swear I posted this!!!!!) If I did (I searched and found 3 posts by me here, maybe there is another thread for one or the other on WS?? Going to look, will be back to finish post, I may just need to copy and paste ;) )

K, Believe09 posted back in beginning of thread as did I that LE said Kelly and UID were ruled out. I talked to Mr Tom Jensen, the det. that worked the Green River Killer case, he said she was ruled out, IIRC, was done by circumstance and lots of LE work. Not by DNA, or Dentals, IIRC. He seemed convinced, and I have much respect for him.

Based on what WE know, I am not convinced it's not her... BUT, who am I. I talked to him for 40 minutes and he knows his stuff. He is trying to ID all the victims of the Green River Killings.

I am sorry I didn't post this earlier....take it for what it's worth..?

I know I have notes from our convo, but I just rearranged my house and some files have been shuffled, my filed named 'KELLI MCGINNESS/UIFAR 7/10/91AK is missing the paperwork from Kelli....that is what lead me to believe I may have 2 cases on this. (still can't a separate thread on WS posted for Kelli anywhere on WS.) I am sorry.

Girl, don't be so hard on yourself & betta not nobody even think about taking advantage of your bent-over position, they'll have to come through ol' MadeaBecBec first...LOL! I think Kelli's case maybe in Cold Cases, I'll help you look for the thread....

:waitasec:Go back to this http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/81ufar.html Edwards has added more photos to the Doe site.... Ummm, I think the new pics put a whole new look on this Jane, WOW, big change!

[christine2448]

If you think someone is a possible match, post up stats and pics so we can all view :D

Tips before submitting (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74855)

[JaneInOz]

I am bending over for my beating....I was working on this, and it is in a pile of like, 200 files.....and it got shifted to the bottom....God forgive me :(


kk....(I swear I posted this!!!!!) If I did (I searched and found 3 posts by me here, maybe there is another thread for one or the other on WS?? Going to look, will be back to finish post, I may just need to copy and paste ;) )

K, Believe09 posted back in beginning of thread as did I that LE said Kelly and UID were ruled out. I talked to Mr Tom Jensen, the det. that worked the Green River Killer case, he said she was ruled out, IIRC, was done by circumstance and lots of LE work. Not by DNA, or Dentals, IIRC. He seemed convinced, and I have much respect for him.

Based on what WE know, I am not convinced it's not her... BUT, who am I. I talked to him for 40 minutes and he knows his stuff. He is trying to ID all the victims of the Green River Killings.

I am sorry I didn't post this earlier....take it for what it's worth..?

I know I have notes from our convo, but I just rearranged my house and some files have been shuffled, my filed named 'KELLI MCGINNESS/UIFAR 7/10/91AK is missing the paperwork from Kelli....that is what lead me to believe I may have 2 cases on this. (still can't a separate thread on WS posted for Kelli anywhere on WS.) I am sorry.

I agree that Kelly looks and sounds so much like the right person but now she has been ruled out by DNA and fingerprints by Chris Edwards according to the other poster.

[MadeaBecBec]

Here's some links for you all
https://identifyus.org/photo.php?i=1982&m

https://identifyus.org/photo.php?i=1983&m

These are the pics when JD was arrested in Dallas, TX in 1986 & gave the false name of Cheryl Ann Wick
(front view) https://identifyus.org/photo.php?i=1985&m
(side view) https://identifyus.org/photo.php?i=1986&m

Now, the Cheryl Ann Wick & phone number was a Lady in Minnesota, so maybe we should be looking for some teen runaway from Minnesota, possible that she had to of known this person to come up with that name to give to LE. Bizarre & Sad, to say the least!

PS. For some reason I am unable to post pics on here!! Mmmmm...

Jeremiah 29:11-14

[Fairy1]

believe09, thank you for checking it out further. Guess we'll have to take their word for it! I feel better about that now knowing that they're thankful to have people looking.

This UID situation is so odd. They have so many pics of her, various names, a good deal of her history and her killer in prison! This is waaaay more info than we usually have on a UID, but still, here we are! I am curious about the Stroud family. It sounds as if LE was able to locate this family and believe this girl may have lived with them for a time, why were they unable to ID her?

I'm going back to the Charley Project and will check the states we know she travelled through.......

[Fairy1]

Here's some links for you all
https://identifyus.org/photo.php?i=1982&m

https://identifyus.org/photo.php?i=1983&m

These are the pics when JD was arrested in Dallas, TX in 1986 & gave the false name of Cheryl Ann Wick
(front view) https://identifyus.org/photo.php?i=1985&m
(side view) https://identifyus.org/photo.php?i=1986&m

Now, the Cheryl Ann Wick & phone number was a Lady in Minnesota, so maybe we should be looking for some teen runaway from Minnesota, possible that she had to of known this person to come up with that name to give to LE. Bizarre & Sad, to say the least!

PS. For some reason I am unable to post pics on here!! Mmmmm...

Jeremiah 29:11-14

Thanks MBB. She sure looks a lot different - and younger - in her mug shots. Probably closer to how she would have looked as a young runaway. Her height should be helpful, but you never know. Guess I'll add Minnesota to my list of states to check out!

[Fairy1]

Sorry for the back-to-back-to-back posts - but no one else is here now!

I've been through TX, FL, LA, AR and MN missing and found not one plausible match. Not sure which way to go now, but I would sure like to contact the Stroud family...Or at least inquire with LE if they have done so and find out the outcome????

This girl looks pretty tough to me and I really wonder - if she was a runaway - if anyone ever reported her missing. In her "made up" pics, she looks way older than 18-21 to me. That and the fact that she seems to have a LOT of history leads me to believe she may have been older. Still, I haven't found anyone who looks like her - and especially with her height.

[JaneInOz]

Here's some links for you all
https://identifyus.org/photo.php?i=1982&m

https://identifyus.org/photo.php?i=1983&m

These are the pics when JD was arrested in Dallas, TX in 1986 & gave the false name of Cheryl Ann Wick
(front view) https://identifyus.org/photo.php?i=1985&m
(side view) https://identifyus.org/photo.php?i=1986&m

Now, the Cheryl Ann Wick & phone number was a Lady in Minnesota, so maybe we should be looking for some teen runaway from Minnesota, possible that she had to of known this person to come up with that name to give to LE. Bizarre & Sad, to say the least!

PS. For some reason I am unable to post pics on here!! Mmmmm...

Jeremiah 29:11-14

Thanks for the Post Morten Photos I had not seen them before. She certainly looks so different less all the hair and makeup and we can now see she is very very freckly - looks to be all over too.

Fairy thanks for looking through all the states. I will have a look tommorow on some of the missing sites

[MadeaBecBec]

Sorry for the back-to-back-to-back posts - but no one else is here now!

I've been through TX, FL, LA, AR and MN missing and found not one plausible match. Not sure which way to go now, but I would sure like to contact the Stroud family...Or at least inquire with LE if they have done so and find out the outcome????

This girl looks pretty tough to me and I really wonder - if she was a runaway - if anyone ever reported her missing. In her "made up" pics, she looks way older than 18-21 to me. That and the fact that she seems to have a LOT of history leads me to believe she may have been older. Still, I haven't found anyone who looks like her - and especially with her height.

I totaly agree with you, I will contact Mr. Edwards to see if he can enlighten us on the Stroud family, it would be help immensely if we knew the dates that
she stayed with this black family & when she left their home. From what I have gathered is that they took her in for a time, that's where the bible came from, so it's possible they were trying to shelter her & turn her life around.... If she was fairly young (her arrest pics in Dallas attest to that) when she ran away or came up missing, then her height & weight are gonna be a huge guess on everyone's part, so I've just been looking at facial similarities.... Here's one that could possibly be her http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/v/vaughn_emma.html
Someone else in an old thread had suggested this (JD) too, in the Emma Lorene Vaughn thread, lifestyle fits & runaway from Florida????
I will let ya'll know, if anything, what I am able to find!



Jeremiah 29:11-14

[OC Lady]

Has everyone totally rejected Rebecca Dunn?

The Doe Network:
Case File 1374DFNV

Dunn, circa 1979

Rebecca Jean Dunn
Missing since April 1979 from Las Vegas, Clark County, Nevada.
Classification: Endangered Missing



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Vital Statistics

Date Of Birth: March 21, 1958
Age at Time of Disappearance: 21 years old
Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 5'8"; 150 lbs.
Distinguishing Characteristics: White female. Blonde hair; green eyes.
Marks, Scars: Bump on bridge of nose.
Dentals: Not available
DNA: Available


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Circumstances of Disappearance
Dunn was last seen in April, 1979 in Las Vegas, NV. The police knows she went missing in April 1979, but are not sure of the exact date. Foul play is suspected.

[MadeaBecBec]

I just finished speaking with Chris Edwards from the AR Crime Lab, he stated that the mug shots were from Jane Doe's arrest in Dallas, on January 26,1991, she was also arrested in May 1991 in El Dorado, so that's the timeline for her from Dallas, TX to Arkansas, where she was murdered. I have a call in to Detective Phillips (Eldorado PD) to see if she can give me a bit of info on the interview with the Stroud family in Texas.
Oh & Mr. Edwards says that he doesn't mind you all presenting possible matches, he prefers that they have dentals, but now that JD's DNA has been entered into CODIS, it will be much easier to match up, especially if the missing person has DNA entered...... I'll be back!!!!



Jeremiah 29:11-14

[MadeaBecBec]

Has everyone totally rejected Rebecca Dunn?

The Doe Network:
Case File 1374DFNV

Dunn, circa 1979

Rebecca Jean Dunn
Missing since April 1979 from Las Vegas, Clark County, Nevada.
Classification: Endangered Missing



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Vital Statistics

Date Of Birth: March 21, 1958
Age at Time of Disappearance: 21 years old
Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 5'8"; 150 lbs.
Distinguishing Characteristics: White female. Blonde hair; green eyes.
Marks, Scars: Bump on bridge of nose.
Dentals: Not available
DNA: Available


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Circumstances of Disappearance
Dunn was last seen in April, 1979 in Las Vegas, NV. The police knows she went missing in April 1979, but are not sure of the exact date. Foul play is suspected.

Whoa! I was just getting my notes together on this lady, Rebecca Jean Dunn, to have ya'll take a look! I'm fairly certain that this is closest match, I have been searching for more pics of Ms. Dunn, haven't found any others! The thing that stood out for me is the "bump" on Ms. Dunn's nose & the one on our AR JD, is right on, (especially if you look at the post-mortem pics)....
Here's the two of them......

[teonspaleprincess]

Whoa! I was just getting my notes together on this lady, Rebecca Jean Dunn, to have ya'll take a look! I'm fairly certain that this is closest match, I have been searching for more pics of Ms. Dunn, haven't found any others! The thing that stood out for me is the "bump" on Ms. Dunn's nose & the one on our AR JD, is right on, (especially if you look at the post-mortem pics)....
Here's the two of them......

Although Rebecca doesn't resemble Jane Doe that much in that picture, there is a striking resemblance to the post mortem pics.

[Fairy1]

Definitely see some similarities but there are a couple things that are nagging at me. Rebecca was 21 went she went missing in '79. That would make her 33 in '91. I do feel that our JD may have been older than the 18-21 range, but not that much older! Rebecca is said to have green eyes and JD's were blue. The height is a bit off and although I generally don't put too much stock in that, 5' 11" is pretty unusual for a woman. JMO

[OC Lady]

Agree with what Fairy said...but...green/blue eyes...sometimes eyes can "change" color according to light...

The age thing bothered me too, but I wonder how much stock to put it age estimates for the Jane Doe...

Do you think we should submit???

[skywatchn]

I too had considered Rebecca Dunn and Kelly McGinnis as possible matches for this unidentified.

Both PM's resemble one another if you look at them closely...hmmm looks like a different makeup technique on the eyes and the IUD uses different makeup techniques also.

They say that Kelly McGinnes may be a victim of the green river murderer? She was also ruled out as the UID by way of dentals.

I have not seen a rule out for Rebecca Jean Dunn, but there may be one. I say she is a good possibility

[Fairy1]

Agree with what Fairy said...but...green/blue eyes...sometimes eyes can "change" color according to light...

The age thing bothered me too, but I wonder how much stock to put it age estimates for the Jane Doe...

Do you think we should submit???

I'm ok with it if ya'll are!

[MadeaBecBec]

Definitely see some similarities but there are a couple things that are nagging at me. Rebecca was 21 went she went missing in '79. That would make her 33 in '91. I do feel that our JD may have been older than the 18-21 range, but not that much older! Rebecca is said to have green eyes and JD's were blue. The height is a bit off and although I generally don't put too much stock in that, 5' 11" is pretty unusual for a woman. JMO

The age problem, well, I believe she was alot older than the estimate, originally what the coroner stated was her DOB from her arrest records, but then, that was the date she was giving them. She sure looks about 28 to 32, IMO. Course, that could be the lifestyle that she led!
OC; If you would like to submit this, please do, if not, I don't mind to do it, I have Mr. Edwards info and JD's file already on my e-mail....
I hope Detective Phillips calls me back tomorrow mornin', if not I'll call her again before noon, just so we can find out the timeline on JD in Texas, she interviewed the Stroud's and made a report on it.....
I'll be back!



Jeremiah 29:11-14

[OC Lady]

Madea -

since you have the contact, perhaps best if you submit? I am so new at this...and am already working on another case trying to learn.

thank you!!

[JaneInOz]

Definitely see some similarities but there are a couple things that are nagging at me. Rebecca was 21 went she went missing in '79. That would make her 33 in '91. I do feel that our JD may have been older than the 18-21 range, but not that much older! Rebecca is said to have green eyes and JD's were blue. The height is a bit off and although I generally don't put too much stock in that, 5' 11" is pretty unusual for a woman. JMO

I agree with the age thing also

But the thing that pertubs me the most is all the freckles of JD

I cant see them on Rebecca at all

I honestly do not think its her but that is jmo

[capoly]

Definitely see some similarities but there are a couple things that are nagging at me. Rebecca was 21 went she went missing in '79. That would make her 33 in '91. I do feel that our JD may have been older than the 18-21 range, but not that much older! Rebecca is said to have green eyes and JD's were blue. The height is a bit off and although I generally don't put too much stock in that, 5' 11" is pretty unusual for a woman. JMO

Looks like the age est for UID was upped:
Case # 475-91
Union Co. AR
20 to 30 year old
White Female
https://identifyus.org/?p=case&i=2813&pos=8&s=DateFound_DESC&from=search

But no reason given for the 9 year increase.

[MadeaBecBec]

Madea -

since you have the contact, perhaps best if you submit? I am so new at this...and am already working on another case trying to learn.

thank you!!

ThANK YOU OC! I will submit this tomorrow, after I speak with Detective Phillips (I really want to know JD's timeline) However, I am convinced these are one & the same.....
I was thinking about Rebecca Jean Dunn's situation, it could be that she fabricated her DOB, especially if she was working as an Exotic dancer or in a casino in LV, you have to be 18, in order to do those things, so she very well could have been underage when she was there, hence their age differences.
:waitasec:The only pic of Rebecca looks like a teenager to me, but, then I am told that I certainly don't look old enough to be a grandmother, for sure I am, so it's hard for me to tell someones age, unless I am related to them and know exactly when they were born.....
Just a little note, the first time I sent an email to suggest a match, I was scared out of my wits, but, once I realized that it was received so graciously & that they really do appreciate our involvement, I have not hestitated since & especially if ya'll agree on that match!

After, I hear back from LE & ME, I will post it here & all the rule outs, too!

I'll be back!



Jeremiah 29:11-14

[JaneInOz]

I wouldn't submit

I dont think Rebecca is this JD

If you look at JD's eyebrows when looking directly at her on the right side the eyebrow is higher and arched.

She has a cowlick Rebecca that is and JD doesnt

Their face shapes are also wrong JD's is longer and her chin more rounder

Sorry but I really do not think this is her

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=749&pictureid=5936

These are physical things that do not change with time

[Fairy1]

Thank you MBB! It's a pleasure to have you - and your enthusiasm - here! I look forward to hearing what they say about Rebecca.

[JaneInOz]

Thank you MBB! It's a pleasure to have you - and your enthusiasm - here! I look forward to hearing what they say about Rebecca.

Sorry I am not trying to put a dampner on anything.

But I thought that Tricia and the mods said not to keep on submitting people without being completely sure

If there are other people who have questions as to suitability for submission then these should be taken into consideration

That is what I was under the impression of via the mods..but I will pm one and double check. Perhaps I misunderstood

[Fairy1]

Sorry I am not trying to put a dampner on anything.

But I thought that Tricia and the mods said not to keep on submitting people without being completely sure

If there are other people who have questions as to suitability for submission then these should be taken into consideration

That is what I was under the impression of via the mods..but I will pm one and double check. Perhaps I misunderstood

If anyone could be completely sure, we wouldn't be here. If there are people who agree on a possible match and we have receptive LE, I believe possibles should be submitted. That's JMO, of course.

[MadeaBecBec]

I agree with the age thing also

But the thing that pertubs me the most is all the freckles of JD

I cant see them on Rebecca at all

I honestly do not think its her but that is jmo

I didn't see freckles on the Jane's pics either, until I saw her post-mortem pics, I believe the lighting makes a difference, plus the makeup! Another thing, the pic of Rebecca (only one out there) was made in 1979 or before! Rebecca still had a "babyface" IMO!!!

And about that cowlick, well, I have several cowlicks, Good Lawd, thank you for giving someone the intelligence to invent hairgels & stronghold hairsprays!

Thanks for your opinion though!

Compare these! Seems our JD was getting "pro" at stylin' her hair, the one to your left looks like she hadn't really "set" her hair. Now the pic on your right, the eyes is what has it for me!

[JaneInOz]

Bec ( your name is too long to post LOL)

Did you look at the eybrows ? not the shape as in the plucking of them but the size shape and line of them
JD's arch up look at her face and to your right that eybrow is arched
The one of the left not so

But both Rebeccas are quite flat and the space between the eyebrow and the eye is very different

Look I know how hard it is when you are convinced someone is someone (lol :p) and people say no way no how - I have a couple of those happening at the moment :rolleyes: and its hard....

But whilst LE could be receptive atm if people submit over and over when there isn't a LOT of people agreeing and a not really any differences then they may not be so receptive

Maybe have a few more opinions ?

I thought I found another pic of her a tiny one but its a girl with a diff surname geeze what are the chances of that ! same first and second name same blond hair but on deeper delving dob and surname are diff although they look very similar AND missing date is diff
But google through it up in images when I searched for Rebecca (this one we are discussing )

[believe09]

I didn't see freckles on the Jane's pics either, until I saw her post-mortem pics, I believe the lighting makes a difference, plus the makeup! Another thing, the pic of Rebecca (only one out there) was made in 1979 or before! Rebecca still had a "babyface" IMO!!!

And about that cowlick, well, I have several cowlicks, Good Lawd, thank you for giving someone the intelligence to invent hairgels & stronghold hairsprays!

Thanks for your opinion though!

Compare these! Seems our JD was getting "pro" at stylin' her hair, the one to your left looks like she hadn't really "set" her hair. Now the pic on your right, the eyes is what has it for me!


FWIW, I am not seeing Rebecca and the JD as the same person either. I think the shape of the face is completely different-not baby fat, just bone structure.

I will be fascinated to see what LE thinks Madea-please keep us posted! Should be an easy rule in/out based on prints and DNA right???

[believe09]

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74855

Christine2448 put this sticky up in this forum in November, but I thought it was worth looking at.

FWIW-Submitting something based primarily on appearance can be tricky. If I have a likely match, I contact LE for the Missing Case and see what additional information might be in the file; if there are prints, photos, dentals, DNA and where they are entered. For example-are the missing persons prints in AFIS? Do I know if the UID's prints are in AFIS? If they both are, then clearly it is not a match. Is the DNA for both in CODIS? If yes, then clearly they are not a match. Is there a tattoo, piercing or scar not mentioned on the websites I have visited?

If the match still seems compelling, post it for fellow sleuthers in the thread and ask their opinion regarding any additional information found-a consensus is always a good thing. If the consensus is that it is likely, then I usually reach out to the detective in the Missing Persons case regarding the UID, explaining the reasons I think it is compelling. They will decide themselves, and typically reach out to the ME for the UID.

[OC Lady]

I guess we will all have to agree to disagree....I don't think we can make any decisions by the freckles, since they did not show in any pics until the post mortems...the eyebrow thing is tricky as well, because the UID's arched brow is not arched in all pics...(no offense to Jane) -

Anyway, I would certainly not want to waste LE's time or come off looking silly...perhaps a couple of phone calls would be in order - esp since there is an indication that there is DNA available for Rebecca...but the Doe Network listing doesn't state if it is in CODIS or not.

I am happy to help if Bec needs me to do so...

BTW I just received news that a possible match on another case was ruled out thru DNA - and everyone thought that one was spot on! So, who knows...I guess that's what we are here for and what makes it challenging and potentially rewarding....

[MadeaBecBec]

I have not submitted Rebecca Dunn, just yet, I'm waiting to talk with Detective Phillips (El Dorado PD) about our Jane Doe, would like to find out the dates that JD was staying with the Stroud Family in Dallas, TX, first.... Detective Phillips is one busy Lady! She won't be back in the office until Monday (2-9-09) The timeline at the Strouds is good to know, also, JD may have given them info about her past, of course, JD had told many stories & used many aliases, so I'm not sure it will help, but if JD was staying with them prior to Ms. Dunn going missing, that will rule her out! JD sure moved around alot (according to her) so Las Vegas wouldn't be all that strange to consider!
Guess we'll just have to hurry up & wait!

Ol Madea BecBec will be back! Hopefully with some pertinent info!:crazy:


Jeremiah 29:11-14

[JaneInOz]

I have not submitted Rebecca Dunn, just yet, I'm waiting to talk with Detective Phillips (El Dorado PD) about our Jane Doe, would like to find out the dates that JD was staying with the Stroud Family in Dallas, TX, first.... Detective Phillips is one busy Lady! She won't be back in the office until Monday (2-9-09) The timeline at the Strouds is good to know, also, JD may have given them info about her past, of course, JD had told many stories & used many aliases, so I'm not sure it will help, but if JD was staying with them prior to Ms. Dunn going missing, that will rule her out! JD sure moved around alot (according to her) so Las Vegas wouldn't be all that strange to consider!
Guess we'll just have to hurry up & wait!

Ol Madea BecBec will be back! Hopefully with some pertinent info!:crazy:


Jeremiah 29:11-14

Good stuff Madea becbec :) Be interesting to see what the Detective tells you :)

What does your user name mean btw ?

[believe09]

I have not submitted Rebecca Dunn, just yet, I'm waiting to talk with Detective Phillips (El Dorado PD) about our Jane Doe, would like to find out the dates that JD was staying with the Stroud Family in Dallas, TX, first.... Detective Phillips is one busy Lady! She won't be back in the office until Monday (2-9-09) The timeline at the Strouds is good to know, also, JD may have given them info about her past, of course, JD had told many stories & used many aliases, so I'm not sure it will help, but if JD was staying with them prior to Ms. Dunn going missing, that will rule her out! JD sure moved around alot (according to her) so Las Vegas wouldn't be all that strange to consider!
Guess we'll just have to hurry up & wait!

Ol Madea BecBec will be back! Hopefully with some pertinent info!:crazy:


Jeremiah 29:11-14

Thank you so much! :blowkiss:

[OC Lady]

Ok - I may be totally off base on this one, but take a look at Michelle Mulcahy

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/366dffl.html

What struck me : the circumstances of her disappearance from Florida (where our UID told friends she was from), the height, the hair/eye color, her "longish" face, and the scar under her left breast...she disappeared in 1979...she was only 16 then and if she went into prostitution at that time, she had alot of time to travel around...the age is a fit too...

What do you think?

The Doe Network listing states fingerprints are available...does this mean they are in CODIS?

I meant AFIS...

Also, UID's listing states she is in CODIS, but Michelle's listing does not...

[OC Lady]

Just thought I would post again to move this up...still wondering what you all think about Michelle Mulcahy...and what "Fingerprints Available" means...

also, does anyone think Rebecca Dunn is worth pursuing at all?

I guess I am worried about not doing this "right" and appearing foolish to LE - or even worse, wasting their time...

I wish we had a list of rule outs on this Jane Doe...is her information in CODIS and AFIS?

[JaneInOz]

Just thought I would post again to move this up...still wondering what you all think about Michelle Mulcahy...and what "Fingerprints Available" means...

also, does anyone think Rebecca Dunn is worth pursuing at all?

I guess I am worried about not doing this "right" and appearing foolish to LE - or even worse, wasting their time...

I wish we had a list of rule outs on this Jane Doe...is her information in CODIS and AFIS?

Hi

OC Lady do you have photoshop or similar ? one of the best ways to establishing whether people are a good match is to do side by sides.
Have you done that yet with Michelle and This JaneDoe?

I've gone ahead and done one, It involves copying and cutting and pasting and merging and re copying and pasting and so on.

I honestly 100% do not believe that this is a match. This Jane Doe has a very very long face as testament to all the many photos of her

Michelles face if you go from tip of her crown at forehead to the bottom of her jaw is no where near as long as jane does. Bone structure is also different

As is the Nose Mouth and Chin

Sorry!

Fingerprints available means just that - they are available for comparison etc.
Jane does are there because of her arrest
I also do not think Rebecca is a match as per the photo side by side I did earlier and the differences

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=749&pictureid=6176

[OC Lady]

Thank you Jane...I don't have photoshop and am not good with any kind of technical stuff...good thing there are people like you on this board!!

I thought Michelle was a real long shot...but want to post for others opinions because of the interesting similarities....

thanks.

[JaneInOz]

Thank you Jane...I don't have photoshop and am not good with any kind of technical stuff...good thing there are people like you on this board!!

I thought Michelle was a real long shot...but want to post for others opinions because of the interesting similarities....

thanks.

Of course , of course :) that was just my opinion on her :)

[Danaya]

I wouldn't submit

I dont think Rebecca is this JD

If you look at JD's eyebrows when looking directly at her on the right side the eyebrow is higher and arched.

She has a cowlick Rebecca that is and JD doesnt

Their face shapes are also wrong JD's is longer and her chin more rounder

Sorry but I really do not think this is her

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=749&pictureid=5936

These are physical things that do not change with time

Really? I thought they were very similar. I know that JD seems to have a longer chin but maybe it was the angle or the makeup... Hm, as for the eyebrows are we sure she isn't just arching her one eyebrow in the picture

[JaneInOz]

Really? I thought they were very similar. I know that JD seems to have a longer chin but maybe it was the angle or the makeup... Hm, as for the eyebrows are we sure she isn't just arching her one eyebrow in the picture

Fwiw Imo The UID;s face is very elongated where as Rebeccas is more round even in the Bone structure

In the UID's photos her Eyebrows are 99 percent always the one arched , not plucked that way but one eyebrow higher than the other as well

Its just my opinion :)

[Danaya]

Yes, you're right Jane In Oz. What a baffling case, with all of these pictures. Unfortunately having worked in the sex trade she may come from a dysfunctional family who never reported her missing or, the foster system who "lost track".

However, I think there is a great chance of this case being solved if the media picks it up. Has unsolved mysteries or AMW aired it, that you know of? Someone will see this picture and probably recognize a girl they used to know...

[OC Lady]

I think I am becoming obsessed with this case!

I was thinking about the Minnesota connection (Cheryl Wick) that our UID used and saw this case. There is very little information but what stood out was the eyebrows in the picture - one is arched higher than the other - granted it is the wrong side...but could the picture be flipped?

The other issue is that the dates would make Belinda around 34 in 1991, which is older than the estimates of our UID...

Sorry to make you guys look at this picture on line, but I don't know how to cut and past it....

Is this one too farfetched???? I'm just thinking what if she was kidnapped and forced into prostitution or something....


The Doe Network:
Case File 2665DFMN
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/2665dfmn.html

Belinda VanLith
Missing since June 15, 1974 from Little Eagle Lake, Wright County, Minnesota
Classification: Endangered Missing



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Vital Statistics

Age at Time of Disappearance: 17 years old
Distinguishing Characteristics: White female. Blonde hair.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Circumstances of Disappearance
Belinda VanLith was last seen house-sitting for a neighbour around 8 a.m. on June 15, 1974. She then disappeared from the property located on Little Eagle Lake, in Wright County, MN. Little Eagle Lake is located east of Eagle Lake in Silver Creek Township, northeast of Maple Lake.
Belinda’s family expected her to be home after a weekend of house-sitting for a neighbor in order to attend her sister’s graduation party. Belinda is described as a normal teen, who enjoyed gardening, had plenty of friends, and did a lot of baby-sitting.
Foul play is suspected.

[JaneInOz]

OC lady Ive had a look and I dont believe that they are the same
The foreheads are different The actual Head shape is different , the eyes and jawline.
I don't believe that that photo would be flipped
Its a bit different to a post morten one
jmo

[thefragile7393]

I say try submitting Rebecca....I see both sides and IMO I'd rather someone be ruled out definitely then constantly wondering about "maybes....."

[MadeaBecBec]

I am just letting y'all know, that I talked to Det. Phillips, at length about this Jane Doe, she has NOT been able to interview the Stroud family in Dallas,TX, apparently this familys bible was in JDs possessions, the family will not give any info to Det. Phillips about her.... Det. Phillips sent letters & left messages with them and none have been responded to, so that's a dead-end, no help there.
Det. Phillips is going to check out Rebecca J. Dunn, though! She will get back to me with whatever she finds out, I forwarded the info to Crime Lab ME, Chris Edwards, so he'll be investigating as well..... That's as pertinent as I got, right now!

JaneinOz; Madea is slang for "Mother of the NeighborHOOD", A "Madea" keeps everyone in "line" from children to adults, that live around her "hood"..... BecBec is my nickname, the teens that worked for me started calling me that, then when the first Madea movie came out, they started calling me Madea BecBec, because even though they weren't under my employ, I still stayed in their business (just trying to make sure they stayed on track & out of trouble)... I'm not quite as crazy as Madea of moviedom, but I will get all UP in somebodys business, if I see them headed in the wrong direction! LOL!
So now ya know!!:crazy: BTW- "Madea Goes To Jail" will be in Theatres on Friday February 20,2009......


I will be back.....

Jeremiah 29:11-14

[MadeaBecBec]

See for yourselves....
Michelle Mulcahy pic is a newer pic of her....

Ar Jane Doe, Michelle Mulcahy, Jane Doe, Belinda VanLith

[Fairy1]

I am just letting y'all know, that I talked to Det. Phillips, at length about this Jane Doe, she has NOT been able to interview the Stroud family in Dallas,TX, apparently this familys bible was in JDs possessions, the family will not give any info to Det. Phillips about her.... Det. Phillips sent letters & left messages with them and none have been responded to, so that's a dead-end, no help there.
Det. Phillips is going to check out Rebecca J. Dunn, though! She will get back to me with whatever she finds out, I forwarded the info to Crime Lab ME, Chris Edwards, so he'll be investigating as well..... That's as pertinent as I got, right now!

JaneinOz; Madea is slang for "Mother of the NeighborHOOD", A "Madea" keeps everyone in "line" from children to adults, that live around her "hood"..... BecBec is my nickname, the teens that worked for me started calling me that, then when the first Madea movie came out, they started calling me Madea BecBec, because even though they weren't under my employ, I still stayed in their business (just trying to make sure they stayed on track & out of trouble)... I'm not quite as crazy as Madea of moviedom, but I will get all UP in somebodys business, if I see them headed in the wrong direction! LOL!
So now ya know!!:crazy: BTW- "Madea Goes To Jail" will be in Theatres on Friday February 20,2009......


I will be back.....

Jeremiah 29:11-14

Thanks for the update MBB!!! Very odd about the Stroud family. I really feel this may be the most important link to our UID! Frustrating. I'm glad they're going to take a look at Rebecca, though I don't personally feel she will be a match.

You sure do seem like a mother of the neighborhood to me. So glad to have you here! And on we go....

[OC Lady]

Thanks MBB! Love the explanation of your nickname!

Wonder why the Stroud fam is so protective of our Jane Doe...or maybe just distrustful of law enforcement?

anyway, appreciate your efforts tremendously - and thanks for the side by sides...

[JaneInOz]

I am just letting y'all know, that I talked to Det. Phillips, at length about this Jane Doe, she has NOT been able to interview the Stroud family in Dallas,TX, apparently this familys bible was in JDs possessions, the family will not give any info to Det. Phillips about her.... Det. Phillips sent letters & left messages with them and none have been responded to, so that's a dead-end, no help there.
Det. Phillips is going to check out Rebecca J. Dunn, though! She will get back to me with whatever she finds out, I forwarded the info to Crime Lab ME, Chris Edwards, so he'll be investigating as well..... That's as pertinent as I got, right now!

JaneinOz; Madea is slang for "Mother of the NeighborHOOD", A "Madea" keeps everyone in "line" from children to adults, that live around her "hood"..... BecBec is my nickname, the teens that worked for me started calling me that, then when the first Madea movie came out, they started calling me Madea BecBec, because even though they weren't under my employ, I still stayed in their business (just trying to make sure they stayed on track & out of trouble)... I'm not quite as crazy as Madea of moviedom, but I will get all UP in somebodys business, if I see them headed in the wrong direction! LOL!
So now ya know!!:crazy: BTW- "Madea Goes To Jail" will be in Theatres on Friday February 20,2009......


I will be back.....

Jeremiah 29:11-14

Hi MBB thank you for taking the time to explain the reason behind your name on here..

That is just crazy that the stroud family wont open up about JD

The woman is Dead , Murdered , don't they want her family to be able to put her to rest :(

[thefragile7393]

Yeah I don't get it either. It sounds like they very well could have had a bad experience with her (theft perhaps) but not wanting to help give details that could lead to her identity....I don't understand that.

[MadeaBecBec]

Hi MBB thank you for taking the time to explain the reason behind your name on here..

That is just crazy that the stroud family wont open up about JD

The woman is Dead , Murdered , don't they want her family to be able to put her to rest :(

Well, you would think that they would want to help!
I'm thinkin' like OC Lady, they're distrustful of LE...... It could be that she told them a bunch of lies about who she was too, so they may just feel they have nothing to contribute. There was mention that JD was a stripper, prostitute & thief (stolen identities,checks & property) so they may have been victims of JD's and don't want to help in any way.... Now, if it were me that became involved with this gal, I would still respond to any questions the LE had, no matter what, nobody should be unidentified & you just never know what might turn out to be important! I am very disappointed, they wouldn't, at least, have said when she came & went.....
I just have a hunch, like alot of y'all that this JD was in foster care or something, before she ran away or became a prostitute/stripper, because apparently she was at a very young age when she entered this lifestyle.
May be that she was abducted as a child, molested and this is all that she knew....
If she was kidnapped very young, that is going to be extemely difficult to figure out, sometimes those age progressed pics look nothing like them, when they are found. This scenario could also explain the lack of pics as a child, JD sure had alot of pics of herself, that she kept... I think very very young might be where we need to look, while we are waiting....

:waitasec:Off this JD, but was wondering, about Michelle Mulcahy, that newer pic looks like one that I saw on a poster that LE put out on Bradford or the other photographer, mmmm....what was his name? I'm gonna sleuth that a bit...



I most certainly will be back!!


Jeremiah 29:11-14

[MadeaBecBec]

Found it..... Christopher Wilder & William Bradford.... Both dead!



I'll be back, I'm gonna look at all those photos......


Jeremiah 29:11-14

[believe09]

Just thought I would post again to move this up...still wondering what you all think about Michelle Mulcahy...and what "Fingerprints Available" means...

also, does anyone think Rebecca Dunn is worth pursuing at all?

I guess I am worried about not doing this "right" and appearing foolish to LE - or even worse, wasting their time...

I wish we had a list of rule outs on this Jane Doe...is her information in CODIS and AFIS?

Just in case no one has addressed the "Fingerprints Available"-typically it means there is a fingerprint card, but no record in a database like AFIS.

[tatertot]

Beckaroozie had suggested Nikki Trollinger as a possible match and we can rule her out. Sadly, her body was found in her home state the same month she went missing in 1985 and she was identified this month. I agree she looked like Jane Doe.

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/identified10.html

[OC Lady]

Any updates on this one? madea?

[JaneInOz]

Beckaroozie had suggested Nikki Trollinger as a possible match and we can rule her out. Sadly, her body was found in her home state the same month she went missing in 1985 and she was identified this month. I agree she looked like Jane Doe.

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/identified10.html

WOW

GOOD JOB to them id'ing her - now her family can lay her to rest properly

http://www.forthelost.org/located.html

How sad :(

[MadeaBecBec]

OC LADY; Great timing on that post! I had this on my calendar to send an email to both Det. Phillips and Mr. Edwards (AR CMEI) tomorrow! I decided to just to do it this evening, so maybe I will hear back before the week is done.

In the meantime, I have been looking at non-family abductions of females younger than 13, hoping to come across someone that could be her, I have found 2.... I'll wait and post those after I hear from the Detective or the Chief Medical Examiner on Ms. Dunn!
Something that really has me frustrated, is the Jane Doe using Ms. Wicks name, she even had a SS number in that name, her home phone number and everything. It had to be that Jane Doe knew her from somewhere, but the Detective says, Ms. Wick did not recognize her at all. Now, she did work at a KFC in Dallas (that was traced by false SS number Jane Doe had) the manager recognized her as Cheryl Wick! Apparently, this was the only honest job (as Ms. Wick) that they have been able to find for JD.
I also did some checking on Ms. Wick, seems the daughter is a few years younger than Jane Doe, plus Ms. Wick did (possibly still does) quite alot of charity work, fundraisers for homeless people, at risk children, etc. and so does her daughter, the daughter just graduated college. So, I suppose that during one of these events, Jane Doe could've been one of the people that Ms. Wick helped or gave out information to, in hopes of getting her settled or something, IDK. If that's the case, she very well could've been in the "system" in Minnesota, and for unknown reasons fell through the cracks.
Or Jane Doe may have traveled through there and spotted one of the many newspaper articles about Cheryl Wick, looked up her name in the phone book, maybe she was gonna ask her for help, then just used that as her identity whenever she arrived in Texas..... Very many twists and turns for this Jane Doe, the saddest part, is everyone that recognizes her face, knows her by a different name, even the boyfriend/pimp that shot and killed her. Strange, to say the least and it makes you wonder about her childhood and how bad it must've been, seems intolerably sad to me!
I'll let you all know as soon as I know something!




Jeremiah 29:11-14

[christine2448]

I wouldn't submit

I dont think Rebecca is this JD

If you look at JD's eyebrows when looking directly at her on the right side the eyebrow is higher and arched.

She has a cowlick Rebecca that is and JD doesnt

Their face shapes are also wrong JD's is longer and her chin more rounder

Sorry but I really do not think this is her

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=749&pictureid=5936

These are physical things that do not change with time


ITA, and I think we have been through this...just going by memory. They don't call me Dory fer nothin.

Did we get a complete list of 'already ruled out' from LE working this? R Dunn is ringing a bell....?

[Fairy1]

I don't believe our UID is Rebecca. The noses and eyebrows are different. I think we maybe should focus on the UID pics where she doesn't have any makeup on and looks like a kid. My guess is, that's closest to how she must have looked when she went missing....

And I truly feel we should sweet talk LE into sweet talking the Stroud family about this girl. I think they know more than they're saying.

Who's good at sweet talking? NOT ME!

[JaneInOz]

ITA, and I think we have been through this...just going by memory. They don't call me Dory fer nothin.

Did we get a complete list of 'already ruled out' from LE working this? R Dunn is ringing a bell....?

Huh ? how come you bumped my post from ages ago LOL

What doyou mean Dory ? that fish was a bit um ..hat eto say it but thick

ROFL why are you calling yourself thick ! ;)

I totally agree Fairy....Sweet talking sounds Good :clap:

[MadeaBecBec]

I don't believe our UID is Rebecca. The noses and eyebrows are different. I think we maybe should focus on the UID pics where she doesn't have any makeup on and looks like a kid. My guess is, that's closest to how she must have looked when she went missing....

And I truly feel we should sweet talk LE into sweet talking the Stroud family about this girl. I think they know more than they're saying.

Who's good at sweet talking? NOT ME!

I suppose I could "sweet talk" Detective Phillips into maybe allowing one of us to give the Stroud's a call, maybe she would do it herself, she's very personable, she would sincerely like to close this case,too! Oh and Detective Phillips said that the mugshot photo of JD was taken only about 7 months prior to her death, she looks so young in that mugshot, I just knew she was only about 15 or 16.... I'm thinking now, if the older looking photos aren't of someone else, maybe her mother, aunt or older sibling, I will call the Detective and ask about that as well.....
I'll do that in the morning! Good Night, for now!



Jeremiah 29:11-14

[BethInAK]

Beckaroozie had suggested Nikki Trollinger as a possible match and we can rule her out. Sadly, her body was found in her home state the same month she went missing in 1985 and she was identified this month. I agree she looked like Jane Doe.

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/identified10.html

After looking on that page it appears there were several people who were reported missing in california, found shortly after their disappearance but not identified for years. Makes me really sad

[MadeaBecBec]

I haven't been abe to get in touch with Det. Phillips, via telephone. So I sent her an email, asking if it would be a hindrance for one of us to call the Strouds, and see if they will give us any info on JD. I did that today, it may be easier for her to respond to an email...... We'll see......

Just wanted to let you all know, I'm still helping out on this one....





Jeremiah 29:11-14

[Fairy1]

I haven't been abe to get in touch with Det. Phillips, via telephone. So I sent her an email, asking if it would be a hindrance for one of us to call the Strouds, and see if they will give us any info on JD. I did that today, it may be easier for her to respond to an email...... We'll see......

Just wanted to let you all know, I'm still helping out on this one....



Jeremiah 29:11-14


:blowkiss::blowkiss::blowkiss:

[sloane7777]

Im sorry, but I have to jump in on this it is driving me nuts, I am from fayetteville, arkansas (northwest ark) I moved here to Irving texas in 1997, I first saw a pic of jane doe in 97, I recongized her 100% I am positive I had interaction with her sometime in the late 80" or early 90's Fayetteville is a big college town we had about a handful of interracial couples (maybe 25) and we all knew or hung out with each other(weird huh?)
so I have been trying to find a pic of her killer James Roy Mcalphin he is not listed in the prison system anywhere????? is he out already? If I saw a pic of him I was thinking it would jar my memory, my Husband thinks she looks familar also. Oh and a couple of months ago My husband met a preacher , that has a church on esters rd in Irving and his last name is Stroud...hmmmmmmm? any suggestions?

[Fairy1]

Welcome to WS sloane7777 - glad to have you here! Do you believe you knew this girl or just had a casual interaction with her? She went by so many different names, I guess even if she told you her name, it wouldn't have been her REAL name!

Anyhoo.....looking for James Roy, I came across this video. Thought I would share before I continue looking...

http://video.aol.com/video-detail/el-dorado-jane-doe-a-vidi-minitary/1079078142

[Fairy1]

Well I can't find James Roy McAlphin. However, it does seem he was quite the whiner in the Arkasas prison and brought a lawsuit against the wardens for several reasons. He doesn't seem to have got very far with that, but perhaps they wound up moving him to another prison in another state.

It seems that know one who "knew" this girl knew her real name. If she ran away at 11 or 13, we really have our work cut out for us. One of her most unique characteristics was her height. But if she was that young when she took off, she probably wasn't 5'11" yet.

I'm quite curious about the Stroud family. IF this girl did live with them at some point, what were the circumstances? Did they take her in or was she "shacked up" with someone in the family? I just can't understand why they can't be more helpful in identifying her!

[Fairy1]

Sorry for all the posts - but no one else is here!!!

IF, and that's a big IF, this girl was ever reported missing before she turned 18, it's possible she dropped off the missing children's boards when she turned 18 - such as Bambi Dick. I've seen it in other cases as well and if someone isn't looking for her now, and takes the time to have her posted again, she will likely fall through the cracks. Other than revisiting the Stroud family, I don't know what else we can do!

[OC Lady]

Fairy - WOW - that is a wonderful video - how did you come across it?

I can't help but think that the Strouds somehow think they may be "in trouble" if they help - I don't know why...with a preacher in the family, you'd think they'd be more open...

I wish there was some consistent way to get national attention on some of these cases...like a monthly column in "People" magazine or something....

someone somewhere know who she is....

[Fairy1]

Fairy - WOW - that is a wonderful video - how did you come across it?

I can't help but think that the Strouds somehow think they may be "in trouble" if they help - I don't know why...with a preacher in the family, you'd think they'd be more open...

I wish there was some consistent way to get national attention on some of these cases...like a monthly column in "People" magazine or something....

someone somewhere know who she is....

I found the video looking for James Roy McAlphin - her killer. But I can't find him!

I agree that the Stroud family is afraid to admit their connection to this girl but, at the very least, I believe they could call in a tip anonymously.

I'm happy to know that the detectives on this case are genuinely interested in identifying this girl. I really want to believe someone out there is looking for her...

[MadeaBecBec]

Hey erybody! I received an email from Detective Phillips and she suggested that no one try to contact the Strouds other than a PI or LE, so I suppose we'll have to leave that alone.
Ya know I have to wonder if the Stroud's have ever thought to "Google" their names, twould (my new word) be interesting if they did and signed on here to shed a little light, so I am going to post what is already out there (in cyberland) about them below, just n case they were to type in their names, this site will come up first, they will read this thread and maybe help out a little!
Here it is:
After her death, they found a Bible in her belongings. There were several names in it: Willie James Stroud, Sharon Yvette Stroud, Ladonna Elaine Stroud, Johnny Lee Stroud, Viola Elizabeth Ross Stroud, Donna Jean Stroud, Bobbie Joan Stroud and Willie James Dantzler Sr. They subsequently found that this was a Black family in Irving, Texas and they believe that she lived with the family for a while.

PS. I am going to go search these folks on Ancestor.com, see what I can find, just for my own knowledge.....


I will return!

Jeremiah 29:11-14

[Fairy1]

Hey erybody! I received an email from Detective Phillips and she suggested that no one try to contact the Strouds other than a PI or LE, so I suppose we'll have to leave that alone.
Ya know I have to wonder if the Stroud's have ever thought to "Google" their names, twould (my new word) be interesting if they did and signed on here to shed a little light, so I am going to post what is already out there (in cyberland) about them below, just n case they were to type in their names, this site will come up first, they will read this thread and maybe help out a little!
Here it is:
After her death, they found a Bible in her belongings. There were several names in it: Willie James Stroud, Sharon Yvette Stroud, Ladonna Elaine Stroud, Johnny Lee Stroud, Viola Elizabeth Ross Stroud, Donna Jean Stroud, Bobbie Joan Stroud and Willie James Dantzler Sr. They subsequently found that this was a Black family in Irving, Texas and they believe that she lived with the family for a while.

PS. I am going to go search these folks on Ancestor.com, see what I can find, just for my own knowledge.....


I will return!

Jeremiah 29:11-14

Thanks MBB! I would never contact the Strouds on my own, but I do believe LE should revisit that avenue. Unless someone in the family 'fesses up, we will likely never know their true connection.

[sloane7777]

Hi everyone , I am at work so I cant see video and I have to take calls between posts so please forgive.... I finally got my husband on board with me on this and the preacher he met might be our guy, we are going to drive by the church beacaus the pastors name is on the sign he just cant remember if it was strauss or stroud -if this is the same guy, it would be so great he really was very nice and frendly, i wouldnt want to bring it up right away, I remember thinking this girl told me her name was sherry, they were staying at a motel 6 for a few months her hair was not as blond as the pics, when I get home, I will watch video-like I said I am answering the phone ,I hope this is not too scattered!

[sloane7777]

Hey Bec BEC where in arkansas are you, you know we are all related!!!!

[sloane7777]

Oh and just another thought, one of my friends from school in Fayetteville was Kelly Lee
Carr , I havent seen him in years, he was about 2 years older than me. I wonder if she knew him he ran in our circle in the late 80's, one of my best friends married his brother, but they have been divorced for several years now!

[MadeaBecBec]

Hey Bec BEC where in arkansas are you, you know we are all related!!!!

LOL! That's a big possibility! Good to have "cousins" sleuthing here,too!! :blushing:
Sincerely though, Welcome! Glad to have ya here! I sent you a PM!

On another note, I saw that same video on youtube, awhile back I think Jan 08) before I was able to become a member here and it motivated me to search for her identity! I always cry *sigh* whenever I watch it, very touching! Thanks Fairy1 for linking it here! :dance:
In the video, it shows excerpts of where she wrote in her "diary" and in it she mentions staying at "Gail's" place and a fella named Tyrone giving "Gail" money for "rent" for allowing them to stay longer. The writing in the "diary" makes me think that it was written when she was very young and in an abusive relationship as well as homeless...
There is just so many S curves in this girls life, it's confusing sometimes! It also makes it extremely difficult to lay out a timeline for her!!!
I am doing a search on Ancestry, for all the names that she used, the first alias I entered, Sharon Wiley, shows there's one born in Minnesota, which is where the "true" Cheryl Wick lives..... Coincidence???? I believe she must've had family from there or lived there at one time in her life....
There is a Wiley from Texas, too!
Then there's the Kelly Carr/Karr alias, a search of that name brings up females born (1968 or before) in California, Minnesota,New York, South Carolina and Virginia.
I looked up the menu names too! Phillips Waterside, they're all over the east coast, started in Baltimore,MD and there was one in Virginia Beach,VA (Seems to be family type restaurants) and Phillips Seafoods started all of them and Phillips celebrated their 50th in 2006....
Now, The Raven (the red menu with a silhouette of a raven on it) is in Virginia Beach, VA and has a website link here: http://www.theraven.com/history.html if you click on their offical website and then the image button (adult material in image) you will probably figure out what her "position" was there, if she worked there....
Worrell Brothers is a bar/restaurant in Virginia Beach, VA, so I'm gonna say it's safe to think that she was either born there or close by and lived in VB,VA for sometime also....
The Boyd Sound Studio in Wylie, Texas has been there since 1976, there is a website too, here: www.boydstudio.com, you can take a virtual tour of the studio (just pics) and when you get to pic 5, in the background are photos of people, one of them (maybe two) resembles our Jane, then pic 6 has Happy musicians as the tag, I see a couple of pics that could be her, ???? Boyd's seems like a really nice studio, a small one, but set up very well....
I'll put more here later, I don't want to take over the page with this post!
Gonna do some more searching!

Happy & Successful Sleuthing to ALL.....:D

[sloane7777]

Again I think for me the key would be seeing a pick of James Mcalphin for gosh sake he is a murderer, I should be able to find a mug shot or something somewhere, and surely he is not out! well he sure could be that was almost 20 years ago!

"I don't believe in the concept of hell, but if I did I would think of it as filled with people who were cruel to animals." - Gary Larson

[sloane7777]

I hear the transfer alot of prisoners to LA from Arkansas and their website does not show pictures, But now that I think about it , he really is probably out can someone ask the detective if she knows?

[MadeaBecBec]

I hear the transfer alot of prisoners to LA from Arkansas and their website does not show pictures, But now that I think about it , he really is probably out can someone ask the detective if she knows?

I sent Detective Phillips an email and asked her about McAlphin (if he was in prsion, dead or what?) and I haven't heard back from her. She is however, a very busy Detective, so I'm sure she'll respond when she finds the time!

When I did a geneaology search for him (McAlphin), GUESS what name comes up as living in El Dorado, AR (where he killed her) WILLIE JAMES MCALPHIN!!!! Okay now, that's another one of those strange coincidences, since two of the Stroud's (Texas) family name's were Willie James Stroud and Willie James Dantzler, mmmmm...... A whole nutha level, I'm telling ya! Maybe that's why the Stroud's have refused to divulge any info, ya think?!!! I'm gonna search the DOC for that name, see what comes up.....

I'll be back!




_____________________________
Jeremiah 29:11-14

[nobody2]

I know this is a pretty girl, BUT, what condition was the body found in? Obviously they have many pictures from life. She looks like she could possibly be a transgender or transexual man. She has that look in the face on many pictures and the height as well. Is it at all possible that her remains could not be identified for sure as female but that they went by the pictures and assumed it? Just curious as to whether there's a possibility. You hear about people who really live their lives as another gender, perhaps even had the hormones and the operation, and people in their old lives don't even know it? Would a post-op transgender person be readily apparent to a medical examiner?

[gogrannypop]

John Mackel McAlphin-- I found this while searching. One of his relatives is a James McAlphin. I really don't know if this will be of any help. John M is deceased. Here is a link.
http://www.eldoradonews.com/news/deaths/2009/01/02/john-m-mcalphin-71.php

[OC Lady]

Wonder if Det. Phillips and her colleagues have contacted The boyds Studio, the Raven, etc. to see if anyone can identify our Jane doe?

[MadeaBecBec]

Wonder if Det. Phillips and her colleagues have contacted The boyds Studio, the Raven, etc. to see if anyone can identify our Jane doe?

We totally think alike! I sent Boyd's an email, see if he remembers her, I linked her doe network file, maybe he'll respond to me, His email was posted on the site, so I thought he might help out a little, however, he may not remember her at all...... We'll see!

I am sure that Detective Phillips and ME Chief Edwards have followed up on all those places, but, if it was a long time ago that Jane was there, they (menu places) may not recall, especially if she didn't use any of the aliases when she was there. I feel strongly that she was employed at the Raven before she ended up in Texas! Not sure if those folks would give out any info, but ya never know.... Their site has contact info, I may do that, all they can say is Nope, never knew her! They certainly can't chew me up and spit me out, for asking!
One thing I have noticed about Jane, I'm sure you all have too, is that in most of her pics, she looks different in all of them.

Now, here's what I found on Willie James McAlphin (I suspect this is James Roy) There is a current warrant for his arrest, looks like a hot check fine:
MCALPHIN, WILLIE JAMES 725 SHORT WILSON//EL DORADO//71730- DEFAULT TIMEPAY OF FEL. FINE $1970
It appears he didn't pay a felony fine! You can read it here:http://www.unioncountysheriff.net/viewpage.php?page_id=4 But it changes almost daily, that's why I decided to post it here!

I have found a missing gal from Virgina that looks alot like Jane, I'll post it in the next post!



___________________________
Jeremiah 29:11-14

[MadeaBecBec]

Here's the link: http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/38dfva.html
Hazel's Info:
Hazel Alice Klug
Missing since May 20, 1986 from Richmond, Henrico County, Virginia.
Classification: Involuntary

Vital Statistics

Date Of Birth: August 22, 1962
Age at Time of Disappearance: 23 years old
Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 5'3; 117 pounds
Distinguishing Characteristics: White female. Blonde hair; blue eyes.
Marks, Scars: She has a scar on the abdomen.

Circumstances Of Disappearance
Klug, a title researcher for a Richmond law firm, spoke to a co-worker whom she was dating on the phone around 11:30 PM on May 20, 1986 from her home in the Crestview area of Richmond, VA. It was a normal conversation and Klug gave no indication that anything was wrong.
Klug did not report to her workplace the next day, May 21. The police searched her home and discovered that her dog was still at home, along with her car.
The only items missing were Ms. Klug's purse and a suitcase. The suitcase was large enough to put the 5-foot-3-inch Ms. Klug in and take away unnoticed.
Police suspect foul play in Klug's disappearance.

Investigators
If you have any information on this case, please contact:
Henrico County Police Department
Homicide Unit
804-672-4840
E-Mail
You may remain anonymous if you wish when submitting information.
NCIC Number: M-813075753
Please refer to this number when contacting any agency with information regarding this case

I realize Ms. Klug was not quite as tall as Jane was when she was found, but ya never know.... Looks alot like her, to me, especially the makeup style! Ms. Klugs lifestyle wasn't close to Janes, but I haven't found much info on her! I'm not totally convinced, but since I haven't heard anything from Chris Edwards on Rebecca Dunn, yet, I thought I'd see what you all thought!

Here some a side by sides:

Hazel on left - Jane on right

[MadeaBecBec]

Oh!! and I believe someone before me suggested Ms. Klug, I'll go back and see if I can find who that was......

Be back!


________________________
Jeremiah 29:11-14

[Danaya]

MadeaBecBec because of the circumstances I am pretty sure this would not be a match. The missing women you listed was only 5 foot 3 and last talked to a co-worker she was dating. I wouldn't be surprised if he became a suspect. The only thing missing was a suitcase that was big enough to fit her body in, I think the police have an idea of what happened and I do not think she is alive, unfortunately. If this is the case I'm thinking of, of the women with all of those mugshots, I do not think that a young women who held a legit job would run away to live life as a criminal for years. I hope I don't sound too straightforward but I also don't think that she looks like the UID.

About the victim being a transgendered man, I think the police would have been able to find out very easily if it was considering the female anatomy is obvious, right? :)

[MadeaBecBec]

Oh!! and I believe someone before me suggested Ms. Klug, I'll go back and see if I can find who that was......


Mmmm. couldn't find it, it may be in the cold case thread, but I don't care to read over that thread again..... Anywho, I'm not the original poster for Hazel Klug, but I agree on alot of the similarities. Ms. Klug's lifestyle and this JDs seemed to be quite the opposite, so that's my biggest hangup on her being a match.

BBL!!! :silenced:


________________
Jeremiah 29:11-14

[MadeaBecBec]

MadeaBecBec because of the circumstances I am pretty sure this would not be a match. The missing women you listed was only 5 foot 3 and last talked to a co-worker she was dating. I wouldn't be surprised if he became a suspect. The only thing missing was a suitcase that was big enough to fit her body in, I think the police have an idea of what happened and I do not think she is alive, unfortunately. If this is the case I'm thinking of, of the women with all of those mugshots, I do not think that a young women who held a legit job would run away to live life as a criminal for years. I hope I don't sound too straightforward but I also don't think that she looks like the UID.

About the victim being a transgendered man, I think the police would have been able to find out very easily if it was considering the female anatomy is obvious, right? :)

ITA! I just wanted to put her out there, because of the likeness' and also thought that JD and Ms. Klug could be related.... Of course, now Janes height is listed as 5'8" too,(https://identifyus.org/report.php?p=individual&i=2813) not extremely tall for a female. I am not sure if a person can grow 5 inches in 5 years, doubtful... I said before, I believe we're gonna have to search for a child that probably went missing in the late 70's early 80's! I'm also fearful that she's not listed at all....:banghead: I will not give up looking though, that's too sad for me.....

It's a good thing to be straightforward..... I appreciate that!!


BBL!!


___________________
Jeremiah 29:11-14

[MadeaBecBec]

A thread here for Ms. Martin :http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3522628#post3522628
Case file link: http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1013dfnj.html
Cathleen Marie Martin
Missing since March 13, 1987 from Cape May, Cape May County, New Jersey.
Classification: Missing

Vital Statistics

Date Of Birth: September 26, 1958
Age at Time of Disappearance: 28 years old
Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 5'8"; 110 lbs.
Distinguishing Characteristics: White female. Blonde hair; blue eyes.
Marks, Scars: Coffee colored mark on right arm.
AKA: Cathleen Buttson; Catina Buttson
Dentals: Not available

Circumstances of Disappearance
Martin was last seen on March 13, 1987 in Cape May, NJ.

Investigators
If you have any information concerning this case, please contact:
Cape May Police Department
609-884-9500
Agency Case Number:
94-5001
NCIC Number: M-703761043
The photos of Ms. Martin appear to be digitally enhanced, so it may be a High school photo, methinks it may be a Graduation photo or a wedding announcement photo.....
Side by side pics

[badhorsie]

They look alike, with that coloured hair often come freckles. Good find

[MadeaBecBec]

I found Ms. Bergeron, sometime back, but her hair had me confused, now I believe she's wearing a wig in her photo (the only one that I am able to find for her)plus the photo appears to be an old photo which brings to another problem I had, was Lurline's listed age as 14, how old could the pic be? But, the ears, the height, the eyes, the way she holds her mouth, when not smiling, all look too close to pass up. All the ancestry searches for Lurline come up as "about" 1960 or 1966, so that's even more confusing. I wish it was stated who made the report and what their relationship was, but haven't found that out either. SO, Here's her link: http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1163dffl.html and her information: Lurline M Bergeron
Missing since July 1, 1991 from West Palm Beach, Palm Beach County, Florida.
Classification: Missing

Vital Statistics

Date Of Birth: August 9, 1976
Age at Time of Disappearance: 14 years old
Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 5'5"; 150 lbs.
Distinguishing Characteristics: White female. Brown hair; green eyes.
Marks, Scars: She has scars on both her legs; both her arms and on her abdomen.
Other: She is know to abuse drugs.

Circumstances of Disappearance
Bergeron was last seen on July 1, 1991 in West Palm Beach, FL.

Investigators
If you have any information concerning this case, please contact:
Palm Beach County Sheriff's Office
800-458-8477
Agency Case Number: 98-95465 NCIC Number: M-133377631

Now tell me "straight up" what y'all thnk, because that's the way I like it....
I'll be back, I'm off to search for matches to another one I'm working on....
Here's side by side pics:

[Danaya]

I wish they had more information in the circumstances surrounding dissapearance. I mean, if the girl was last seen say, hiking in the woods that's going to make me think differently than if it says she probably ran away or had involvment with prostitution. I have no background information to go on except for the looks.

Lurline has scars, does the UID have scars? She is known to abuse drugs but if the UID doesn't have scars, I don't think Lurline looks enough like the UID that I'd get really excited or anything but there is a resemblance. It's a black and white picture but the nose and chin resembles her.

Cathleen looks like a possible match, is there any way you can contact the lead detective and ask for more information about her case? Or are you just going to submit it?

[Danaya]

Jane Doe:
Distinguishing Characteristics: Brown hair at the time of her death; however, it had been previously dyed blonde, as the photos above attest. She had blue eyes. She had a small birthmark or scar beneath her left breast; she also had freckles. 3 piercings in right ear and approximately 2 in left ear.

Bergeron:
Marks, Scars: She has scars on both her legs; both her arms and on her abdomen

That's enough to make me think it's not a match even though there is a striking resemblance, I just don't think they would miss all those scars.

[Fairy1]

I think Lurline's face is a shaped a bit differently - enough to rule out. Their jawlines and chins are quite different.

I think our Jane Doe would have been on the streets for quite some in order to have racked up so much, uh, experience. I'm concerned that she was never reported missing or sometime along the way fell off the missing persons sites.

I still believe the key lies with the Stroud family. IMO

[OC Lady]

Bumping up Michelle Mulcahy for your opinions...

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/366dffl.html

What struck me : the circumstances of her disappearance from Florida (where our UID told friends she was from), the height, the hair/eye color, her "longish" face, and the scar under her left breast...she disappeared in 1979...she was only 16 then and if she went into prostitution at that time, she had alot of time to travel around...the age is a fit too...

What do you think?

[MadeaBecBec]

I will email the ME Chief and Detective Phillips on both of them, they're at such a "standstill" on this case, from what I surmised, they're glad to check out most of the missing females that are close. I wasn't as convinced of Cathleen and Lurline as I was Kelli McGinnis (ruled out per fingerprints) and Rebecca J. Dunn, still haven't heard from anyone on Dunn, so I may wait to see if she is ruled out, first. I'll call the ME Chief about that one tomorrow morning!

I'll return!



_______________
Jeremiah 29:11-14

[Danaya]

Bumping up Michelle Mulcahy for your opinions...

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/366dffl.html

What struck me : the circumstances of her disappearance from Florida (where our UID told friends she was from), the height, the hair/eye color, her "longish" face, and the scar under her left breast...she disappeared in 1979...she was only 16 then and if she went into prostitution at that time, she had alot of time to travel around...the age is a fit too...

What do you think?

No, I don't think she is a possibility. Unfortunately, reading the details I think she was abducted by the man and women and is no longer alive. She had no history of drug use, was not a run away but instead was probably duped into believing a false story presented by this man and women and they did something very bad to her. In other words, I think that is a case of stranger abduction while I think our Jane Doe was a runaway who willingly led a life of crime due to her addiction problems. I think she may have never been reported missing as she led a transient life. I think the only key may be finding this family or putting out posters of the women or writing ads on various websites like craigs list in Florida.

ETA: I should have looked closer, I see that Mereditch had a scar under her breast and was 5'8. I am confused about the circumstances, did she get to her dance contest or disapear along the way? It says she arrived at a family friend's home with a man and women. I would check out this family friend, how does LE know they were telling the truth? If there was a man and women, could they have taken her and she chose not to contact her family for the ten years prior to her death?

[Danaya]

Meredith when she dissapeared and a picture of our Doe

[Danaya]

Age Progressed image of Meredith and Jane Doe

[Danaya]

Here is her charley project, read the circumstances. I think it is a case of resemblance but I don't think this is our JD after reading the case details, I think it was a case of stranger abduction and foul play.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/m/mulcahy_michelle.html

ETA: I was curious to know what the Candy Store Lounge is that Mereditch was on her way to, and it appears to be some sort of strip club or something that is no longer around. I found this after doing a web search: On the site of the former Candy Store Lounge, said to be the birthplace of the wet T-shirt contest, a St. Regis Resort is planned to open early next year.
http://travel.nytimes.com/2006/12/10/travel/10fortlauderdale.html

[MadeaBecBec]

Bumping up Michelle Mulcahy for your opinions...

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/366dffl.html

What struck me : the circumstances of her disappearance from Florida (where our UID told friends she was from), the height, the hair/eye color, her "longish" face, and the scar under her left breast...she disappeared in 1979...she was only 16 then and if she went into prostitution at that time, she had alot of time to travel around...the age is a fit too...

What do you think?

Michelle's circumstances do correspond with Janes, and their faces are similar!
I have an email to the Agent handling the case of serial rapist/killer Christopher Wilder asking about Michelles possible involvement with him. The newest photo of Michelle, where her hair is blowing in the wind, was included in a poster of women that were professional photos in Bill Bradfords possession and some authorities have suggested that Wilder and Bradford may have spent time together and possibly exchanged photos..... I know they have removed the photo from the poster as identified, but have not found Michelle. Both Wilder and Bradford, acted out crimes against women in Florida, across the country actually, but Wilder owned a home in Florida. I just have a strong feeling that Wilder abducted Michelle during a "photo Shoot" and she was murdered then! The authorities have not found all of Wilders or Bradfords suspected victims! There's plenty of photogenic girls/women that disappeared during 1979 and 1984, when these two were at their peak.....
I will ask about Michelle as a possibilty, when I speak with Edwards and Phillips!!! They seem to be better at facial comparisons, especially with this Jane, than most......

[Danaya]

Michelle's circumstances do correspond with Janes, and their faces are similar!
I have an email to the Agent handling the case of serial rapist/killer Christopher Wilder asking about Michelles possible involvement with him. The newest photo of Michelle, where her hair is blowing in the wind, was included in a poster of women that were professional photos in Bill Bradfords possession and some authorities have suggested that Wilder and Bradford may have spent time together and possibly exchanged photos..... I know they have removed the photo from the poster as identified, but have not found Michelle. Both Wilder and Bradford, acted out crimes against women in Florida, across the country actually, but Wilder owned a home in Florida. I just have a strong feeling that Wilder abducted Michelle during a "photo Shoot" and she was murdered then! The authorities have not found all of Wilders or Bradfords suspected victims! There's plenty of photogenic girls/women that disappeared during 1979 and 1984, when these two were at their peak.....
I will ask about Michelle as a possibilty, when I speak with Edwards and Phillips!!! They seem to be better at facial comparisons, especially with this Jane, than most......

Don't you think though, if Michelle went to a "photoshoot" and this man is a known murderer she wouldn't have escaped and lived a life of crime for ten years without contacting her family? Just saying, it doesn't seem very plausible to me... If Michelle never intended to run away and instead was approached by a man offering to take her pictures, she was obviously into that entering a dance contest at a lounge, I don't think she would just up and leave but the marks are similar, definately.

[OC Lady]

The details in Michelle's case seem rather sketchy...could she have run away and entered "the life"?

did either Wilder or Bradford have a woman "helping" them?

There certainly isn't much information or anything in particular about her family on either doe network or the charley project....

she is such a pretty girl that I could definitely see Wilder or Bradford being attracted to her....sick though that thought is....

I'm sorry I don't have more time to do more investigating of Michelle's situation...

[OC Lady]

Also, I find it strange that there are no comments from her family on either doe network or charley project...wondering if she was estranged from them....

And if the man and woman Michelle was with forced her or introduced her into prostitution, maybe she was too ashamed to contact her family, once she had the opportunity...we don't know what her family dynamics were...

[sloane7777]

has anyone checked on this girl, it all fits and timeline is right, and her hair was naturally brown height works-I know I grew alot from 16-26
take a look Case File 1403DFAL Doe ntwk????????Anyone Agree???

[Danaya]

has anyone checked on this girl, it all fits and timeline is right, and her hair was naturally brown height works-I know I grew alot from 16-26
take a look Case File 1403DFAL Doe ntwk????????Anyone Agree???

Most women end puberty before 16 and have stopped growing by then, I just don't see her growing eight inches. There is a resemblance but IMO not an uncanny one. Also, this missing women has some scars that the UID doesn't have as well as protruding teeth. So, in my opinion it isn't a "likely" match.

[sloane7777]

about the protruding teeth if you look at the autopsy report it does describe as overlaping teeth on our jane D. I know it it a long shot but both heights are an est. if jane was really 5'8 and mj was 5'4 thats not really much, my daughter was 5'6 thru high school she is 5'11 now at 22 years???? my hair was thick brown and curly at 16 by the time I was 21 I was a blond with thinner hair??? worth a check??? anyone ?

[Danaya]

Here is a side by side, we'll wait and see what other posters think.

[sloane7777]

you never know looks can be deciving, my husband swears that it it not me in my teenage pics, the brown hair mary pic is hard to tell there is so much hair, the eyes kinda of work???? I still am looking for the Killers pic ,I really might remember how I knew her if I saw him! cant find a thing!

[Danaya]

you never know looks can be deciving, my husband swears that it it not me in my teenage pics, the brown hair mary pic is hard to tell there is so much hair, the eyes kinda of work???? I still am looking for the Killers pic ,I really might remember how I knew her if I saw him! cant find a thing!

Wait, you know who the killer is? I'm confused, i'm going to go back and look and re-read this case. I think that the UID does resemble the missing women except for the scars they don't quite match up.

[Danaya]

Okay, re-read it. Sorry if this sounds a little crass but it sounds like she was murdered by her pimp. : (

[sloane7777]

yes, and he is nowhere in the prison system, I had interaction with this girl at one time in fayetteville or maybe ft.smith AR, late 80s early 90s (I, at that age went out alot) I just think if I saw the "boyfriend" I could place it, there just were not that many interracial couples in that area, and you knew who everyone was ( the town is much bigger now) but everyone knew everyone
then

[sloane7777]

oh, and not crass at all ...it is what it is !

[sloane7777]

Here is a side by side, we'll wait and see what other posters think.

oh and the circumstances fit sooooo well.....runaway male companion going to flordia and when jane died the report says hair brown and she does have dark eyebrows in some pics and that lightend red tinge on some.

[molly]

Hi - This is my first post so forgive me if I have posted incorrectly.
I've been very touched by this case. I found the following girl missing at age 15 since January 1, 1980 from Venice, Los Angeles, California. Her name is Kimberly Ann Kahler. She would have been 26 in 1991. I don't know how to post a link to side by side photos, but if you check JD morgue pictures and compare it to the center picture on the doenetwork, I think there is a remarkable likeness. Her DNA is in CODIS - does that mean it has already been checked against Jane Doe's DNA in CODIS?

Kimberly Ann Kahler


Date Of Birth: January 17, 1964
Age at Time of Disappearance: 15 years old
Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 5'8; 145 lbs.
Distinguishing Characteristics: White female. Brown/auburn hair; blue eyes.
Marks, Scars: Kahler has a small-sized scar on the left side of one of her lips. She has facial freckles.
Dentals: Not available
DNA: in CODIS
AKA: Kim

http://www.doenetwork.org/

CASE: 942DFCA

[Seifsister]

I say focus toward Ocean City Maryland or Virginia or may have a better chance of finding her id.

[Danaya]

Hi - This is my first post so forgive me if I have posted incorrectly.
I've been very touched by this case. I found the following girl missing at age 15 since [FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=Black]January 1, 1980 from Venice, Los Angeles, California. Her name is Kimberly Ann Kahler. She would have been 26 in 1991. I don't know how to post a link to side by side photos, but if you check JD morgue pictures and compare it to the center picture on the doenetwork, I think there is a remarkable likeness. Her DNA is in CODIS - does that mean it has already been checked against Jane Doe's DNA in CODIS?

I do see a similarity, I was wondering if somebody is sending in these matches. I think these last two are worth a look. I know that Kimberly had a scar beneath her lip and the UID doesn't. Also, the UID had that scar below her breast but I mean who is really going to know that? I'm not sure about the CODIS thing.

Anybody sending these matches in?

[OC Lady]

I think madeabecbec has been in touch with LE and has submitted some matches.

Re: CODIS - its my understanding that if a UID's DNA is in CODIS and a Missing Person's DNA is in CODIS, they are automatically run...in other words, when DNA is put into CODIS, the system automatically runs a comparison. so if both the UID and the Missing Person's DNA have DNA in CODIS, it is likely not a match.

Christine...please correct me if I am wrong on this.

[MadeaBecBec]

I think madeabecbec has been in touch with LE and has submitted some matches.

Re: CODIS - its my understanding that if a UID's DNA is in CODIS and a Missing Person's DNA is in CODIS, they are automatically run...in other words, when DNA is put into CODIS, the system automatically runs a comparison. so if both the UID and the Missing Person's DNA have DNA in CODIS, it is likely not a match.

Christine...please correct me if I am wrong on this.

Yes Ma'am, you are correct in how CODIS "works", however this Janes DNA is not in CODIS yet, the profile is available at University of North Texas as of now, hopefully that will change and be entered into CODIS, soon, very soon! You may read the ME report here: https://identifyus.org/report.php?p=individual&i=2813

Molly; I see alot of similarities in Jane & Kahler, especially the way they look into the camera, with the dip of their head and kind of squinting when they smile....Good find!!! If you would like for me to submit this for you I will.... Not a prob!

Here's the side by side pics for Kahler
Jane--Kahler--Jane--Kahler--Jane

[molly]

Madeabecbec - thanks for posting the pictures. Please submit this for me - thanks again!

[teonspaleprincess]

I definately see a resemblance between Jane and Kimberly Kahler. The facial shape and squinty eyes, and even though nose look similar.

[sloane7777]

Madea, you are right our killer is in the obits, oddley so are most of his family died young, he does have a neice in C-dubya (took me forever to get that duh) could ya walk across the street there and ask her whats up? just kidding! what do you think of Mary Jo (above ) it does fit timeline, circumstances?????

[WholeLottaRosie]

Madea, you are right our killer is in the obits, oddley so are most of his family died young, he does have a neice in C-dubya (took me forever to get that duh) could ya walk across the street there and ask her whats up? just kidding! what do you think of Mary Jo (above ) it does fit timeline, circumstances?????

I don't - what is C-Dubya? Thanks.

[Danaya]

Seattle, WA?

So then you saw a picture of him, do you remember how you knew them? Even if you did know her you wouldn't have known her real identity, anyway, right.

[Danaya]

Madeabecbec did you submit Kahler as a possible match? She looks very similar to me.

[sloane7777]

I don't - what is C-Dubya? Thanks.

Hi medusa, C-dubya is madeabecbec catchy name for her hometown I am from her state, I just didnt catch on,

And about the killer-boyfriend, I have a uncanny recall for faces and conversations, but Im having trouble with jane, I remember her from a club called hollywood's in our hometown, I even remember it was cold outside...but thats it, if I saw the BF/killer it might jog.....Im getting at that age!:woohoo:

[sloane7777]

I say focus toward Ocean City Maryland or Virginia or may have a better chance of finding her id.

doe network case 1403DFAL thats east coast, come on guys check this girl out !:confused:

[Danaya]

doe network case 1403DFAL thats east coast, come on guys check this girl out !:confused:

I think somebody will be submitting her as a possible match for you, unless you want to.

[sloane7777]

• James R. McAlphin, 43, who gave addresses of 1202 N. Highland and 627 Champagnolle Road, was arrested Wednesday on a Texas warrant for sexual assault and an El Dorado warrant for failure to appear.

this was april 2008, maybe I should look under my own nose Huh?

[Danaya]

Yeah, I don't see him being a missing piece to the puzzle. I think he probably didn't know her real name, I think she was probably just working for him. I think the key is waiting to see if these matches work and then posting her picture on different local classified websites and asking AMW to help.

[OC Lady]

Sorry - I don't see Mary Jo as being a possible...the protruding tooth is really noticeable in her photo, and I don't see that in Jane Doe's photos...and the height is really way off...

That being said, maybe she had her teeth fixed? And maybe the height is just wrong...so many possibilities....

[Danaya]

Sorry - I don't see Mary Jo as being a possible...the protruding tooth is really noticeable in her photo, and I don't see that in Jane Doe's photos...and the height is really way off...

That being said, maybe she had her teeth fixed? And maybe the height is just wrong...so many possibilities....

And I agree, I don't see her growing eight inches after she's hit puberty, it just doesn't seem possible. Also, why would she have her teeth fixed, she is living a life of prostitution and crime.

[MadeaBecBec]

Madeabecbec - thanks for posting the pictures. Please submit this for me - thanks again!

Molly; It's done!!

Just a bit of information, I have gathered: Jane was a stripper in Little Rock, AR, before she became a "full-time" prostitute, when she left LR, it is believed that she then moved to TX, where she was a stripper at The Carousel in Dallas and some believe she was into the drug scene before ever becoming a stripper in LR! One of the menus, that she had in her possession was from The Raven in Virginia Beach,VA, this place has topless dancers and waitresses, they also offer "Champagne Rooms" for the elite group, soooo, methinks she may have worked there before migrating to LR... I haven't been able to find out for sure though. I'm going to email them photos and ask if the managers (twin brothers, btw) remember her, let's pray that they do and are willing to shed some light...... I have yet to receive anything from Boyd's Studio, I was hoping at least an email telling that he doesn't remember her, I'm not giving up on that, just yet....
I have an acquaintance that sells lingerie and "risque" costumes to strip clubs all over the state, I have printed a flyer to fax to her and she is going to take it with her and ask the managers if they remember her, let's hope one of them shares info with her.....
About McAlphin, he died in prison in 1995! I do not have a pic of him (yet) He had a son Willie James Roy McAlphin, maybe that's the one that was arrested, IDK!!!

Sloane7777-PM me, the nieces name, I am not opposed to calling her!

[OC Lady]

Madea - I just love you!! I am amazed how how much info you are able to track down - obviously you are very devoted to our Jane, and others. Kudos!!

Re: the teeth issue...I suppose she could have had her teeth fixed while being a stripper...but not likely in my opinion...sigh...

I know that we will find out who she is one day...

Madea - I am going to PM you re: an idea I have...

[MadeaBecBec]

The details in Michelle's case seem rather sketchy...could she have run away and entered "the life"?

did either Wilder or Bradford have a woman "helping" them?

There certainly isn't much information or anything in particular about her family on either doe network or the charley project....

she is such a pretty girl that I could definitely see Wilder or Bradford being attracted to her....sick though that thought is....

I'm sorry I don't have more time to do more investigating of Michelle's situation...

You can read a little more about Wilder here: http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/predators/wilder/index.html

There is an archived forum of William Richard Bradford, on WS here:http://www.websleuths.com/forums/archive/index.php/f-115 Good reading on both of these.... Scary and frustrating, but interesting and good info to have while sleuthing.....

[Fairy1]

Molly; It's done!!

Just a bit of information, I have gathered: Jane was a stripper in Little Rock, AR, before she became a "full-time" prostitute, when she left LR, it is believed that she then moved to TX, where she was a stripper at The Carousel in Dallas and some believe she was into the drug scene before ever becoming a stripper in LR! One of the menus, that she had in her possession was from The Raven in Virginia Beach,VA, this place has topless dancers and waitresses, they also offer "Champagne Rooms" for the elite group, soooo, methinks she may have worked there before migrating to LR... I haven't been able to find out for sure though. I'm going to email them photos and ask if the managers (twin brothers, btw) remember her, let's pray that they do and are willing to shed some light...... I have yet to receive anything from Boyd's Studio, I was hoping at least an email telling that he doesn't remember her, I'm not giving up on that, just yet....
I have an acquaintance that sells lingerie and "risque" costumes to strip clubs all over the state, I have printed a flyer to fax to her and she is going to take it with her and ask the managers if they remember her, let's hope one of them shares info with her.....
About McAlphin, he died in prison in 1995! I do not have a pic of him (yet) He had a son Willie James Roy McAlphin, maybe that's the one that was arrested, IDK!!!

Sloane7777-PM me, the nieces name, I am not opposed to calling her!


Thank you so much for all the info MBB - you ROCK!

I'm beginning to think JD was a bit older than the range given. If the places she worked stripping were legit - she would have to have been at least 18 to work, right? Course I suppose she could have lied about her age and had a fake ID. I'm beginning to wonder if anyone she ever knew while she was on her own even knew her real name!

She sure did a lot of hard living before her death. Poor little thing. I sure hope we can get her ID'd and give her some dignity back.

[teonspaleprincess]

WOW, all of you rock! I love the way everyone here really digs into a case and works so hard.

[diane-lambert]

i'am looking for a link or info.on heidi peterson 1974 coldcase seattle

[Danaya]

Thanks MBB. I had an idea, what about posting her picture on various websites like community notices in craiglist in states like Arkansas and Florida? After we find out results of submitted matches, of course. It would be time consuming and there may be some weird people who respond but what if someone is just cruising the site and it's a family member who happens across her picture? I think AMW should air this, has anybody asked them to? If not, I can.

[scuseme]

are you sure about the Raven in Va Beach having topless waitresses? I lived there for 9 years in the nineties and ate there several times. It's on the ocean and was just a casual restaurant...i took my parents there and i don't remember champagne rooms and topless women!! I guess things could change...

[scuseme]

i just looked at the bar web cams and it's just a casual restaurant like it was when i lived there.

[MadeaBecBec]

are you sure about the Raven in Va Beach having topless waitresses? I lived there for 9 years in the nineties and ate there several times. It's on the ocean and was just a casual restaurant...i took my parents there and i don't remember champagne rooms and topless women!! I guess things could change...

Go to this link http://www.theraven.com/history.html
Click on the image of the corvus like in the pic below, and you will get what I am saying! Also, the menu, that Jane had in her possession, on the inside, it had Champagne Celebration Rooms offered there! I'm not sure if this was inside the "family" area (I highly doubt it)or on the water....

[sloane7777]

• James R. McAlphin, 43, who gave addresses of 1202 N. Highland and 627 Champagnolle Road, was arrested Wednesday on a Texas warrant for sexual assault and an El Dorado warrant for failure to appear.

this was april 2008, maybe I should look under my own nose Huh?

hey medeabecbec: where did you find a 1995 prison ,death beacause he filed another lawsuit in 1998 and I did find the son, he is 28 years old, look above I think our guy either died in the last year or he's is still very much alive?? he would be about 44 now - ok I will go look for neices info again will let you know

[sloane7777]

Madea - I just love you!! I am amazed how how much info you are able to track down - obviously you are very devoted to our Jane, and others. Kudos!!

Re: the teeth issue...I suppose she could have had her teeth fixed while being a stripper...but not likely in my opinion...sigh...

I know that we will find out who she is one day...

Madea - I am going to PM you re: an idea I have...

RE the teeth issue again: I dont think the were fixed the discription is from the family protruding teeth/ the autopsey on jane says protruding eye teeth???

[sloane7777]

hey medeabecbec: where did you find a 1995 prison ,death beacause he filed another lawsuit in 1998 and I did find the son, he is 28 years old, look above I think our guy either died in the last year or he's is still very much alive?? he would be about 44 now - ok I will go look for neices info again will let you know

Right under my nose, he is very much alive in roberson unit texas prison will be released again in 2010 , now that I have found him , maybe I can find a pic convicted of sexual assult in austin tx??

Now after all this, it probably wont matter!

oh I forgot about the neice, be back!

[scuseme]

I don't mean to be disagreeable but i think the pic under the raven is just a joke. I've looked through the posts and can't find a pic of the inside of the raven menu. I saw it in the video but i just saw where it offered champagne. Phillips is a nice seafood restaurant just as the raven is. i don't know of it ever being that kind of a place. can you post a pic of the menu?

[MadeaBecBec]

I don't mean to be disagreeable but i think the pic under the raven is just a joke. I've looked through the posts and can't find a pic of the inside of the raven menu. I saw it in the video but i just saw where it offered champagne. Phillips is a nice seafood restaurant just as the raven is. i don't know of it ever being that kind of a place. can you post a pic of the menu?

No! I do not have a pic of it, I was just told in confidence, by some Marines, that they had partied in a champagne room there....That was about 5 or 6 years ago, I remember it because I thought "strange name for a place" and then immediately thought "Oh, Raven-haired beauties" and the guys had a really fun time, expensive, but fun... I didn't think much of it until I saw the menus in her possession and was researching all the places and clicked on that pic, haha, needless to say I was a bit shocked, also thought it was a joke, 'cause it looks photoshopped, but then remembered what my friends told me.The pic of all the Military personnel reminded me of that, too! I've sent one of them(Marine friend) an email asking him if I am remembering correctly, I won't hesitate to admit if I'm wrong about that!
And Phillips Seafood is definitely a reputable restaurant, I'm thinking, that JD may have been a waitress there or she just admired the place, either one, it's pretty clear she spent some years in or close to Virginia Beach and it meant alot to her.

Here's another thought, Could this Jane have been Amish? Is that a possible reason there has been no missing person report by family?

Another thing on Identify US website, Jane had dental work, one tooth was capped.... When that was done is anybody's guess!!

Sloane7777: I read that death report on Ancestry, maybe there is another one!!! Strange!!! But, the dead one's date of birth was 1949, I figured that was a pretty close estimate for JD's killer, maybe not, plus he died in Arkansas! But I have put that question(s) to Detective Phillips, in an email, I'm sure she will answer it when she gets the time!
So, there's one in prison in Texas? Small world or what? I'll go look at that pic!
Thanks for the info!

[sloane7777]

it does not show a pic, about that capped tooth do you know which one I missed that!

[Danaya]

I'm waiting patiently to see how that match comes back, it can take up to six months, right? As for The Raven, I got the same impression as the PP about it being a family restaurant but I guess we'll see. If she didn't work there there is really no significance with the restaurant anyway. She may not have even used her real name. As for the teeth, I think she came from a middle class background. I'm confident that we have searched extensively through the doe network database for possible matches and this is all we have found, right? So, if these matches don't work the next step in my opinion would be posting various ads on community websites like craigs list or trying to get media exposure. That would mean she was probably never listed as missing. As far as her being Amish, it's a possibility but a little out there, what made you think of that? I mean, anything is possible so don't say No but I guess that would be a place to look after these matches don't work out.