Kristen Moddaferi - 19 - missing since 6/23/97

[Doyle]

http://www.modlink.com/kristen/home.htm

[Up2theminute]

Missing Persons Cold Case Network file: Kristen Deborah Modaferri
Vital Statistics at Time of Disappearance


Missing Since: June 23, 1997 from San Francisco, California
Classification: Endangered Missing
Date Of Birth: June 1, 1979
Age: 18 years old
Height and Weight: 5'8; 140 pounds
Distinguishing Characteristics: Dark brown hair; brown eyes. Modaferri has facial dimples.
NCIC Number: M-038421722

http://www.angelfire.com/mi3/mpccn/modaferri.html
(much detail of disappearance and pictures follow)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Up2theminute]

Kristen's Law

U.S. Department of Justice
Award Amount: $1,575,000

Award Date 07/10/02
Description of Project: Information provided by the FBI National Crime Information Center indicates that there are approximately 200,000 reports of persons over the age of eighteen during 2001. Currently, there is no organization that serves as a national clearinghouse for missing adults to assist law enforcement and the families of missing adults. Without a central clearinghouse, law enforcement is unable to share information or seek assistance in obtaining information about missing adult cases. In addition, victim assistance programs and support services for family members, loved ones, and employers have been non-existent.

To address this problem, the Nation's Missing Children Organization (NMCO) will establish The Center for Missing Adults, a national clearinghouse for missing adults cases. The Center will create a national registry of missing adults, which will serve as a central repository of information accessible to the general public, advocacy groups, law enforcement and medical examiners. The Center will also develop a curriculum and provide regional training to law enforcement agencies. NMCO will provide support for law enforcement and the families of missing adults through a toll-free hotline, a website, and an informational resource database for nationwide advocacy and referral services.


On behalf of NMCO, Kristen's family and families nationwide, thanks for your support!
http://www.nmco.org/legislation/



KRISTEN'S LAW SIGNED
November , 2000

WASHINGTON–A national clearinghouse for information on missing adults will be established under legislation that was signed into law on Thursday.

The measure authorizes the attorney general to make grants of up to $1 million for each of the next four years to public agencies and non-profit private organizations that help find missing adults.

Senator John Edwards sponsored the Senate version of the bill. Representative Sue Myrick of Charlotte introduced the legislation in the House.

The measure was named for Kristen Modafferi, a North Carolina State University student who was last seen during the summer of 1997 in San Francisco just three weeks after her 18th birthday.

The Charlotte woman's disappearance has been the subject of nationwide publicity. Many other cases involving the disappearance of young adults are reported to authorities without generating headlines. In Mecklenburg County, for example, the sheriff's office last year received reports of 132 missing persons from 18 through 21 years old.

"We want to make sure that if a child disappears that a family has a place to go and knows where to go to get assistance in locating them. What happens oftentimes is that there is no coordination between law enforcement agencies," Senator Edwards said. "Secondly, we want parents of children who have gone away to college – my child just went away to college – to know and feel secure that if something does happen to their child there is something in place to help them."

Senator Edwards credited Kristen's parents, who pressed for enactment of a law to help other families. "I also am grateful to Representative Myrick for her tireless efforts toward ensuring that Kristen's Act becomes law," Senator Edwards said. "Our legislation will help public agencies and nonprofit organizations provide desperately needed assistance to law enforcement and families in locating involuntarily missing adults.

"Kristen's Act will not only provide some comfort to the millions of parents who send their children to college every year and worry about their safety, but it will help ensure that when an adult of any age is missing due to foul play a national effort will be mobilized to help," the senator concluded.

http://edwards.senate.gov/press/2000/nov09-pr.html

[Litlstar04]

Hey Up2theminute! I finally made it! This is what I've been meaning to post for forever. I'd love to get your thoughts on it!

Jury selection tomorrow in Scarsdale man's murder trial
By JONATHAN BANDLER
THE JOURNAL NEWS
(Original publication: August 25, 2003)

Suspicion in his wife's disappearance has hounded Robert Durst for more than two decades. It intensified when his best friend was shot to death in Los Angeles three years ago — and grew even more when he admitted killing a cantankerous neighbor in Texas and was accused of chopping up his body and setting it adrift in Galveston Bay.

Now, as the 60-year-old Scarsdale native and scion of a Manhattan real estate empire goes on trial in that Galveston killing, investigators in northern California are taking a close look at Durst, suspecting he might have played a role in the disappearance of two teenage girls there in 1997 — 18-year-old Kristen Modafferi in San Francisco and 16-year-old Karen Mitchell in Eureka...

...Information linking Durst to the two California cases was first reported in publicity material for the paperback edition of "A Deadly Secret," writer Matt Berkbeck's book about the Durst saga that will be published next week.

Five months before Mitchell disappeared, Modafferi vanished after leaving her waitress job at a San Francisco coffee shop, headed for Land's End Beach on San Francisco Bay in Oakland. One of the original detectives in that case, John Bradley, is now an investigator with the San Francisco District Attorney's Office and has spent the past several months investigating Durst's ties to northern California. He said information he has obtained put Durst in the area at least on the weekend before Modafferi disappeared and on the day that Mitchell went missing, although Parris said he was still looking into whether Durst was in Eureka that day.

Bradley, too, sees similarities between Durst and the sketch in the Mitchell case, but is even more intrigued by the description of the car. Although Durst had a green Ford Explorer in northern California at the time, a drug user and prostitute who reported Durst befriended her told authorities she only knew him to drive a light blue car, Bradley said...

For the entire story, go to http://www.thejournalnews.com/newsroom/082503/a0125durst.html

[Up2theminute]

Very, very interesting, Litlstar! I could definitely buy that.
I'm going to read more about it later and then it might be later tonight when I respond. I know I owe you an email too!
Talk to you soon.

[Up2theminute]

From above referenced article:
Durst had developed a pattern of disguising himself, using assumed names and hanging out at homeless shelters. Parris is still investigating whether he could have met Mitchell at the Rescue Mission, a Eureka shelter where she occasionally volunteered.

This is very interesting to me. Kristen also seems like the type of person who would get involved with volunteering for that type of thing. I wonder if this could be, assuming there is any connection, how she may have run into him too. Or he could have just been pretending he was a homeless man on the street period and played into Kristen's sympathies.

I'm going to create threads about Karen Mitchell and also Kathleen Durst from the cold case networks description, etc.

[Litlstar04]

Good idea to start threads on them. I need to read up on these two cases because, I have to admit, I didn't know anything about either of them. It's all very interesting! I only hope that Kristen's parents can finally find some answers! Let me know if you find anything else!

[Up2theminute]

Interesting how all three of them have the initials KM. Kathleen Durst's maiden name was McCormack.

[Litlstar04]

That is strange, sort of like the weird name connection between SP's victims ;)

I just continue to think that Kristen's case is so odd. If you were to ask me a month ago, I'd have said, without a doubt, that Onuma did it. But, now, this is such a strange possible connection between Kristen and Durst. I almost want to email Dennis Mahon and ask him if this is being looked into, if there are any ties between the two, but I'm sure he's busy with the PF civil case. There are just so many possible ways that she could have had contact with him - at Spinnelli's, on her exploring adventures, volunteering (I wonder if she ever did this), or simply walking down the street.

from http://www.thejournalnews.com/newsroom/082503/a0125durst.html
...One of the original detectives in that case, John Bradley, is now an investigator with the San Francisco District Attorney's Office and has spent the past several months investigating Durst's ties to northern California...

I don't remember hearing this investigators name before, but I guess we're back to trusting those SF LE to do a thorough job :(

[Up2theminute]

Originally posted by Litlstar04
That is strange, sort of like the weird name connection between SP's victims ;)


;) Yes, that was sort of tongue in cheek. But hey you never know maybe Durst was that psycho to have had some obsession with those initials after he killed his wife (I suppose I should say allegedly).

Kristen's case is bizarre to say the least and mainly just for the simple fact that there is not enough to investigate further or at least according to LE...but I personally think and I think that you agree that there is enough at least to pursue some avenue here..even if it leads nowhere in the end. I felt as if during that ABC special they were acting like they had nothing. From everything we've been able to get our hands on to read and analyze though it seems that there is enough to get the investigation revved up from being cold all this time. If this type of information is available to internet sleuths than surely LE would have access to it and be able to start building from some point. I'm glad that they are at least contemplating the connection to Kristen. I can't stand the idea that cases like this may never become solved and just be a permanent part of the cold case sites. :(

[rachel]

I've been following Kristen's case for a while, so it's "good" (in a bad way, I mean) to have some new info......
A few months ago, I emailed Dennis Mahon, and asked him a few questions. He seemed to imply that there wasn't really any new info, and the investigation seemed to focus on John Onuma and friends, but he also had some sort of hunch that the roomates might have been involved. When I heard that, I thought "no way!" It seems that Kristen had some sort of (very minor)disagreement with one of the guys regarding the length of lease- he wanted her to sign (and pay for ) a slightly longer period of time than she wanted. I really can't imagine that it would be the type of thing that anyone would harm her over.
ALSO, let's say hypothetically that the 4 of them were involved....it's pretty unlikely that 6 years later, not one of them would have a guilty conscience and come forward.....2 of them were even law students...... If only one of them was involved....it's also unlikely that he would have covered his tracks well enough that the other 3 wouldn't have picked up on it....
I don't buy it..
In the ABC special, Kristen's dad also said something that it was a little strange that the roommates didn't file a missing person's report right away. I don't think it's strange at all. I've had roommates that I haven't seen for a few days at a time- the roommates probably just assummed that Kristen was out till very late, and then would leave early in the morning--that they just kept "missing" her.
Even though there are no solid clues linking KM to Jon Onuma, it still "unsettles" me that 1) he made up such a story to the tv station and 2)he screamed at some woman, "now you know what happened to KM!"
Regarding the randall davis story, didn't dennis mahon say something along the lines of "while our tipster is very sincere, I believe he is mistaken." When I emailed, DM I asked him if there was any way to check passport records. Most people don't take their passport around with them every day, so KM would have needed a new passport, unless she got to Nicarugua stuffed in someone's suitcase or something.....DM told me that they checked,and a passport hadn't been issued for her....

I'd be interested in hearing other people's insights on this!

[Juliana]

Why is Kristen's thread in the "Located" forum? I got so excited that maybe she had been found alive. Must be a mistake...

[CaliMom]

I was going to ask the same question.....

[rachel]

In the past few weeks, there has been talk of Robert Durst's possible connection with KM....I wonder if there is anything real to link them together, or just speculation? Like, he was in the Bay Area the same day she went missing....? Well, so what? So were about 4 million other people.
The article from The Journal News (Westchester County, NY) didn't seem to say anything....maybe there's something in the book that just came out? Has anyone read it?

And why is this thread in the "located" section?

[Litlstar04]

I have no idea why Kristen's thread has been moved to Located. It's been residing in the Missing but not forgotten section up to this point. I'll have to alert Doyle of it.
At this point in time, everything is speculation, so for the sake of discussion, anything is a viable theory. When I asked Dennis about the roommates after Up2theminute and I had both voiced suspicions about them, he said pretty much the same thing to me as he did to you. The thing that got me was that they never spoke to the parents at all about it, which seemed a little strange to me. I've had many roommates, some of which only lived with us for the summer. But, Kristen's roommates' actions do seem strange to me. I would notice that something was odd when a roommate wasn't holding his/her normal schedule, and it seems that Kristen did have somewhat of a normal schedule - work in the morning and exploring in the afternoon and evening. Also, if one of my roommates went missing, I'd have done everything in my power to help the parents search, even to this day.
The article that I've posted previously does mention a possible connection between Durst and Kristen. When you have someone that is possibly killing people in the area, you have to look at other unsolved cases. Durst was in San Francisco the weekend before Kristen went missing. Does this mean he's connected? Maybe not, but it's worth it to check it out!

[rachel]

Well, regarding the roommates, this was in the guestbook on the modafferi's home page:

"I'm one of the housemates Kristen was living with in Oakland. I hardly knew her -- she'd
only been with us three weeks and spent most of that time either working or exploring
the city alone -- but I'm still haunted by the experience and the loss. And the guilt. Before
Kristen came out to CA, I spoke with Debbie on the phone about our house, the
neighborhood, the housemates. Like any mother, she was concerned about her daughter
going off to the big city. But I assured her it was really a safe place, she had nothing to
worry about, and that I'd "look out for her little girl." Obviously, I failed at that. The next
time Debbie and I spoke, it was a month later, and I'd called to let them know that Kristen
hadn't come home, and we were worried. Since then, my contact with Bob and Debbie
has been very limited. I've done everything I possibly could to help the police and
investigators and media working on the case, but I've been virtually unable to face the
family. Even to tell them how sorry I am, how much my heart goes out to them, how much
more I wish I could do, and how I wish I had taken Debbie's concerns just a little more
seriously. Happy Birthday, Kristen, wherever you are. Please call home. Please let your
mother know that her little girl is okay."

Does anyone know if the roommates were ever looked into?
just for arguments sake, I'm going to point out a scenario that happened with me and my rommies when I was in grad school:

One Monday evening, I came home from class at about 7. One of my roomates had already left for a student meeting. I went to sleep at about 10, woke up at 7, left the house at 7: 30. She was sleeping. That evening, Tuesday, I came home late after hanging out with some friends. I overslept a little, and by the time I woke up (maybe at 9 am ) my roomate had already left for work/school...by now it's wed. am, and I haven't seen my roommate since mon. am.
just a thought, especially because it says (I think on dm's web site) that Kristen left early (her job at the cafe started at 7), and spent a lot of time after work exploring. Also, in one of the first articles after the disappearance, in the oakland tribune or something, the co-workers said that she had met some people once at a concert, and more than once slept over st someone else's apt...that once one of these people had dropped her off at work. I can try to find the article on lexis-nexus.

[Litlstar04]

I can only go by my own experiences. Fortunately I lived in a house with four other girls, so we all saw at least one other roommate throughout the day. I was lucky enough that nothing happened to me or any of my friends in college.
Thank you for sharing the entry by one of Kristin’s housemates – I’d never seen it before. It’s obvious that Kristen’s disappearance continues to bother him the way it would many of us. I can only go by what I’ve read on Dennis’ site and Kristen’s parents’ site, as it is hard for me to find very many articles on her with my current resources. If you come across any, that would be great of you to share.
In the meantime, none of us were there, so everything we have to go by is second and third hand information. It’s pure speculation on our parts when we discuss the roommates’ possible involvement. I tend to think Onuma or someone we haven’t even thought of yet is a more likely possibility. But, I still think it’s worth it to discuss everything. It seems to be that most of Kristen’s case remains behind closed doors, with good reason. This isn’t a situation like Paul Flores, so they have to keep most of the information private, as not to tip off anyone.

[Up2theminute]

I have so much to say about this right now! But I'm at work and have to finish some things up that are due today.;)

I'm also so glad to see other people commenting on this case besides (or in addition to) my partner in unsolved crime sleuthing, Litlstar and me.

Litlstar, How are you? Have you started skiing yet?

[Up2theminute]

I had almost completely forgotten about the website Dennis Mahon had for Kristen with an e. We had the link on the other forum I guess we forgot to post it again. Anyway, it's www.findkristen.com

Interesting article about the Onuma situation here:

Jill Lampo, aka, Jillian Suzanne,
tells me one thing, Oakland PD says otherwise!
More here: http://www.findkristen.com/LampoLying.html

If you are a person reading this thread who is not familiar with Jill Lampo then read this first, she was Jon Onuma's girlfriend at the time of Kristen's disappearance: http://www.findkristen.com/JillLampo.html

[rachel]

Here is the article that I was thinking of:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/examiner/archive/1997/07/06/METRO3317.dtl

(let me know if you can't see it...i'll copy and paste it...)

this is again part of my speculation that the roomies didn't think so much of it when Kristen hadn't been seen for a few days....


I originally came up with this theory: regarding robert durst: I read in one of these articles somewhere, either in the journal-tribune (westchester county, ny- his home town) or on courttv crime library about him.....that he has been known to disguise himself as a woman....wearing a wig. I thought, "that's it! he was the "blond woman" with Kristen in the mall." then I realized that no way could that be....one of the articles also said that when he disguised himself as a woman in Gavelston, TX- it was as a MUTE woman.

I also had another idea at one point: is it possible that the reason the blond woman has never come forward is because something also happened to her? then I realized that if police had gotten another missing persons report at the same time, then they would have already tried to put 2 and 2 together.... so that's also unlikely

One more point: even though there are a lot of fishy things that point to Onuma and Lampo, (ie- the phone call, his screaming at a woman, Jill lying (about something) )- I'd like to point out one thing: to permanetly "dispose" of a person (I don't even like to THINK about what could have happened to poor Kristen) without leaving a trace... you have to know what you're doing... do you know what I mean? Although Jon has a record of abuse, that's a far cry from this kind of stuff....

[Litlstar04]

I would like to get the conversation going again on Kristen's case because there's been a lull in it the last couple of weeks. I found something interesting when I did a search in Google:
http://www.rpcvla.org/_disc1/0000000f.htm

I thought this whole thing had been squashed. It's interesting to note that it was just posted in August of this year, so maybe this is still a possibility? I guess I don't understand how someone could get all the way to Nicaragua without using a passport.

[Litlstar04]

I don't think we have this link up yet.
http://www.unsolved.com/0120-Modafferi.html

[cmadwolf]

I read somewhere that Robert Durst is being looked at in the disappearance of Kristen. I can't remember where I read it, but it was something to the effect that he was in the area when she disappeared. Anyone else know about this? I'll try to find the link again.

[cmadwolf]

Here it is!

http://www.nypost.com/news/nationalnews/7487.htm

I hope I do this right!!
http://www.nypost.com/news/nationalnews/7487.htm

[Litlstar04]

http://www.thejournalnews.com/newsroom/082503/a0125durst.html

Here is another article in which this possibility is discussed. As far as I know right now, it's just that - a possibility. I just pray for the Modafferi's sake that they can have answers some day, whether it's through a connection to Durst or that maybe Kristen is out there alive somewhere.

[Airplane]

I've been following the Kristen Modafferi case for several years now, and I'm glad to see a discussion going on here about it.

[RCOOKE]

Originally posted by rachel

this is again part of my speculation that the roomies didn't think so much of it when Kristen hadn't been seen for a few days....


I don't think Kristen had been there long enough to establish a friendship with her roommates. They did call her parent's after Kristen did not return home in two days.

Law enforcement didn't pay much attention to the case the first week. When Bob and Debbie flew there on a Friday, the investigators had left for the weekend and no one would help them until he following Monday.

[Litlstar04]

Mr. Cooke, thank you for clearing that up about the roommates because there's been a lot of speculation on here about exactly how they reacted to Kristen not being seen for a couple of days. Obviously we all have different relationships with the people that we live with, but I've just always been close with my roomates, even if he or she had only been living with us a short time.
I remember Dennis Mahon telling me that about the investigators when the Modafferis first arrived to look for Kristen. I can't believe they reacted so non-chalantly! Sometimes I think LE needs to stop and put themselves in the shoes of the parents and families. As far as you know, since the initial blow-off, has LE been helpful in the Modafferis' search for Kristen?

[RCOOKE]

Originally posted by Litlstar04
I remember Dennis Mahon telling me that about the investigators when the Modafferis first arrived to look for Kristen. I can't believe they reacted so non-chalantly! Sometimes I think LE needs to stop and put themselves in the shoes of the parents and families. As far as you know, since the initial blow-off, has LE been helpful in the Modafferis' search for Kristen?

Missing adults usually get ignored by law enforcement if there is no crime scene or witness. You are correct in saying in it was a daughter of some one in law enforcement then would jump in it.

I think LE is working the case now. Bob and Debbie flew out there this last summer to meet with LE. It's very hard on them since they live in North Carolina. They need a break on Kristen's case just like we need one on Rachel's case.

[Doyle]

Modafferis honor missing daughter

http://www.news14charlotte.com/content/local_news/?ArID=44790&SecID=2

[Litlstar04]

Dennis has posted a lot of answers to a lot of questions:
http://www.findkristen.com/ResponseRD.html
You can also read the Reader's Digest article about Kristen, which is in the current issue:
http://www.findkristen.com/ReadersDigest12.html

I still keep going back to the roommates and how odd their behavior has been, especially if it's true that they opened Kristen's mail.
However, I think all signs point to Onuma. I don't think it's just a coincidence that an ex-employee at Spinelli's (who still had friends that worked there at the same time as Kristen) dated Jill Lampo. This could very well have been how Onuma came across Kristen. No matter what, I agree with Dennis that the few people that knew Kristen need to be sat down and questioned. Why wasn't this done in the first place? Isn't this a normal part of a typical investigation?

[Up2theminute]

Litlstar, I'll have to go check out his website more often. I didn't know people were using the guest book as a sort of message board. I don't personally know what to think of the roommates. I did find it interesting that in the ABC article they happen to mention that all her roommates were males..which, in the first place, I didn't know and, secondly, has me wondering why they included that specific detail in the article. Seems kind of unimportant but I wonder if there is a reason behind it that the general public doesn't know about (such as an investigation into the roommates) but which ABC news learned of while doing the story and decided to slip in a small reference to that fact. :dontknow:

[Litlstar04]

I think there are many things that are suspicious about Kristen's case and many angles to this case that the various stories and shows decide, for whatever reason, to leave out. It's incredibly frustrating because it leaves all of us in doubt of what is fact and what is fiction. It seems the same things keep coming up over and over, no matter how many times the server crashes. Maybe it is a good idea to list the issues that we've discussed, no matter how many times we've discussed them, and any answer or non-answer we know for each of them. Anyone feel free to add to this list.
1) Kristen did not clock out of work and was seen shortly after her shift ended in the presence of a woman with blonde hair. This blonde-haired woman has never come forward.
2) Kristen had asked her co-workers about the Land's End area in an attempt to find something to explore on what would probably have been one of her last free afternoons/evenings once her class started.
3) Her scent was traced to a bus stop bench, from which she presumably took a bus to the Land's End area where her scent was traced to the water. However, police have now said they wished they hadn't just assumed her scent stopped at this bus stop bench. By assuming that she got on the bus, they failed to see if her scent continued further. Remember, Onuma lived in the area at this point in time. Also, Kristen had been to this beach just previous to this, so this could have been how her scent was around the edge of the water.
4) Onuma calls in a tip to the police and says that two women that worked at the YMCA killed Kristen and disposed of her body under a bridge. Kristen's body is never found, but Onuma admits he made this up to get two women that his girlfriend, Jill Lampo, worked with in trouble.
5) Several of Onuma's girlfriends come forward to tell stories of abuse. One even says he threatened to kill her, claiming that the same thing that happened to Kristen Modafferi would happen to her.
6) Jill Lamp used to date Matthew Luque, a former employee at Spinelli's where Kristen last worked. Several pages of Jill's diary are missing from the days Kristen first disappeared, and she made phone calls to her family in the middle of the night.
7) Kristen lived with several male roommates who did not report her missing or think it was odd that she hadn't come home. When Kristen's dad called several days after she'd gone missing, one of the roommates told him that she hadn't come home in a few days.
8) When the Modafferi's arrived in San Francisco to look for their daughter, the detectives had gone home for the weekend, so they were told they'd have to wait until Monday.

[rachel]

I often think about Kristen and the poor Modafferi family....
It's also frustrating (for everyone!) that there "seems" to be nothing really concrete to go on, just a lot of really strange incidents. These include: the missing pages from Jill Lampo's date book/diary, the fact that Jon Onuma screamed at someone, "Now you'll know what happened to KM!" and the newest piece of information: that when JO was evicted from his home in Hawaii, after he left, police found a briefcase with a collection of articles/websites about KM.
There was something else that I've been thinking about. Somewhere on Dennis Mahon's site, there is a page called "Jill Lampo lying." Apparently, Jill said something to Dennis and the Mods. Then later on, someone else, who didn't realize the significance of what he/she was saying, said something to contradict it..... Obviously, we have no idea what Dennis is referring to here, but we can speculate. Whatever it it, Dennis (and the Mods) obviously feel that Jill is lying about something. Based on a few things, we assume that Jill wasn't directly involved in Krisren's disappearance. But I from what I've been reading, my understanding is that IT'S POSSIBLE that she holds a significant piece of information that she is witholding. Like, maybe she knows who the blond is (she is african-american, so it probably isn't her), or anything else. It could be, as well, that she knows something, and doesn't realize that its important.
I hope that the new year brings peace and closure to all the families, including the Mods, Smarts, Cookes, Bishes, etc...

[WasBlind]

Rachel, you said "she is african-american, so it probably isn't her"

I may have missed something here. Can you please specify whom you refer to? Thanks

Praying that 2004 brings answers to the families of the missing, Lanie

[Litlstar04]

rachel is referring to Jill Lampo. It was previously speculated that Jill may have been the blonde woman that was spotted in the mall with Kristen shortly after her shift ended. It was then presumed that Jill led Kristen to Onuma, because this had happened previously with other women. However, recently, Dennis Mahon has said that Jill is a black woman, so it would have been more notable for her to have had blonde hair than a white woman. For this reason, he does not believe that Jill was the blonde-haired woman seen with Kristen that day, otherwise witnesses would most likely have noted that it was a black woman with blonde hair.

[Eagle1]

I'm sure there's no real connection, but still have to at least mention this (coincidence?) just in case it might turn out to be the same one travelling all over the country working for someone or something. It's been a long time.

I don't know if someone was lying about the composite drawing resembling someone in public ofc, reason they never published it.

[rachel]

I'm not familiar with the case you're referring to. There is another missing persons case where there a blonde woman?

Another thing I was thinking of: In the Reader's Digest article, when one of the detectives was speaking of the phony tip that JO said, the detective said something along the lines of, "You don't make a story like this up..." The detective was implying that JO knows something. Okay, well then how about this: JO said that KM's body was dumped in Point Rayes. If you look on the sutro baths web site, it says that Sutro Baths is part of the Golden Gate National REcreation Area, as is Point Reyes.... it's like this JO guy knows too much! If he had nothing to do with it....why would he specifically say Pt. Reyes?

Or this could be just nothing, and its known that Pt. Reyes is a popular place to dump bodies....like the East RIver in NYC.

Now my second question: why has the investigator disregarded the hotel theory (that KM had been seen at a hotel) ? I'm not so clear on that.

LE hasn't disregarded the theory that KM fell and was in some sort of fatal accident. Don't they have people working in LE who can track tides and wind speeds and try to figure out where the body went? And if they're so sure of it, why didn't they send out divers to look for her? KM possibly was a bit more trusting than other people, but she certainly seems bright enough to read and comprehend a sign that says, "Danger!"

In addition, this Sutro Baths/Lands End area seems a little isolated. Also, I read on the ABC transcripts of the ABC special that indicated that not only is the area isolated, but it's not exactly the best crowd of people hanging out there. Does anyone have more familiarity with the area? Could you tell us a little about it? Is it known as a spot to stay away from, don't go alone, don't go in the evening, etc...

[Litlstar04]

Perhaps what is meant by not the best crowd hanging out there is that it seems to be a place where parties are held. In fact, Kristen was at a party there just previously to disappearing (which may also explain why her scent was there, not necessarily that she was there the day she was missing.) I'm not sure why the possible sighting of Kristen at the motel has been dismissed. The only thing that I can come up with is that there is evidence against this that we just don't know about.
I agree with you, rachel, that I don't buy the theory that Kristen was involved in an accident by the water/swept out to sea by a wave. I think that her body would have turned up, as I believe that most do eventually (even Laci's tied down body surfaced.)

[rooftopny]

However, recently, Dennis Mahon has said that Jill is a black woman, so it would have been more notable for her to have had blonde hair than a white woman. For this reason, he does not believe that Jill was the blonde-haired woman seen with Kristen that day, otherwise witnesses would most likely have noted that it was a black woman with blonde hair.

My wife has been following Kristen's case from the beginning and now I too am intrigued with it all. With regards to the above comments, on www.findkristen.com, the photograph of Jill Lampo is of a young white woman and yet Dennis Mahon has said that Jill is a black woman. Does anyone know what is closer to the truth? Is the photograph on the below link truely Jill Lampo?

Check out: http://www.findkristen.com/LampoLying.html

[rachel]

My wife has been following Kristen's case from the beginning and now I too am intrigued with it all. With regards to the above comments, on www.findkristen.com, the photograph of Jill Lampo is of a young white woman and yet Dennis Mahon has said that Jill is a black woman. Does anyone know what is closer to the truth? Is the photograph on the below link truely Jill Lampo?

Check out: http://www.findkristen.com/LampoLying.html

Rooftop,
Yes, that is truely Jill Lampo. I think that 1) the picture is just not so good and 2) she is a very light-skinned African American.

I think that everyone assumed Jill was white from seeing the picture, until Dennis told us otherwise.

I'm glad to see more people are joining in on the discussion.

We still have not speculated much about what Jill was lying about...Perhaps it's something to do about Onuma's whereabouts that day?

[rooftopny]

Rooftop,
Yes, that is truely Jill Lampo. I think that 1) the picture is just not so good and 2) she is a very light-skinned African American.

I think that everyone assumed Jill was white from seeing the picture, until Dennis told us otherwise.

I'm glad to see more people are joining in on the discussion.

We still have not speculated much about what Jill was lying about...Perhaps it's something to do about Onuma's whereabouts that day?

Thanks for explaining about Jill. We were confused.

Also, I wonder as well about what she was lying about. That is a really good guess that she provided a false alibi for Onuma ... I'm sure he was asked where he was the day she disappeared. Does anyone know how he responded to this question? And do others think that the pages from her missing diary have notes about where they were that day?

[rachel]

From DM's website:

"Police continue to focus on Onuma, believing he knows exactly what happened to Kristen, yet he refuses to come clean. Jon Onuma, as it turns out, has been living in 47-924 Kamakoi Rd, Kaneohe, Hawaii for about a year, perhaps longer. He is living in a home valued over $1,500,000 and is driving a Mercedes convertible.
Throughout learning about this information, a statement was made to me by a person who didn't realize the significance of what they were saying. If this was true, then clearly, no doubt about it, Jill Lampo was lying to me.
I ran this info past Oakland PD and they verified it to be true. I had such a hard time believing it that I asked Kristen's dad to double check with Officer Mahanay.

"It's true, Dennis", Bob said.

I apologize for being so vague but it is a pretty safe bet that both Onuma and Jill will be reading this. I will just let them wonder just exactly what it refers to."


"Note to readers:


Jill is telling me one thing and the Oakland PD are telling me differently. I choose to believe the police. With that said, the key person here is clearly Onuma. I doubt that Jill had anything to do with Krsiten's disappearance. I just now believe that she isn't telling EVERYTHING she knows.


Maybe Onuma has theatened her life? He has done just that to another woman saying words to the effect, " You will meet the same fate as Kristen Modafferi", during one of his screaming tirades at a past girlfriend."


I don't know what the truth is, I just know that Jill was not straight with me and the Mod's and hopefully Oakland PD can use this information to help find Kristen.



I assume that those missing pages most likely had something to do wth KM.....Out of all the pages to be missing? It could be something very innocent, like, "met So-and-So and her friend." Maybe this So-and-so is the blond. Something along those lines, it could be something very innocent, but gives LE clues. It doesn't have to be "kidnapped girl today."
Does anyone know when LE went to search JO's house? I think I read somewhere that it was about a year later. Could that be correct? that sounds crazy. Why did it take so long?

[Up2theminute]

The Modaferri's comments on the Reader's Digest article (published in December):
Reader's Digest Feature Article

"The story of Kristen's disappearance is in the December issue of Reader's Digest. This well known magazine has a circulation of 13.1 million readers and is published worldwide in 19 languages. To say we are pleased that Kristen's story is now reaching this global audience would be a huge understatement. This is the kind of exposure we have tried for years to get, because this is our best chance of reaching someone who may have the answer to what happened to our daughter on June 23, 1997. Reader's Digest does not accept articles from the general public, so we owe a dept of gratitude to writer Matt Birkbeck for taking an interest in our case and writing the story for Reader's Digest.

The article does, for the most part, accurately describe the events surrounding Kristen's disappearance, but a few points need to be clarified:

First and foremost, we got the call from Griffin Cherry, who told us that Kristen had been missing for 3 days, but he placed the call after we left a message asking Kristen to call home. We have no way of knowing how much more time may have passed had we not made that initial contact. The first 24 hours are crucial after someone goes missing... we had no idea... no one bothered to call us.

Kristen did a great deal of research before she told us about her plan to live, work, and attend classes in the San Francisco Bay area. She was very excited about the summer work/study adventure that was an integral part of her scholarship program. She presented us with a very convincing case that she was prepared to live on her own for the summer in a beautiful city. We made the decision to let her go. It wasn't an easy decision, or one we took lightly.

In hindsight it is probably true that Kristen may have been too trusting of the people she met in the three short weeks she was in San Francisco. The article states as fact that she took "casual car pool" rides to commute to work. We know she took the BART trains to work... it is only speculation that she tried other options like the casual car pool. We also don't know if Kristen placed the classified ad. There are many young people in San Francisco looking for friends with common interests. We have no proof that Kristen actually wrote and submitted this ad.

Kristen's Law was the culmination of a lot of work by dedicated and caring people who responded to our call for help at a time when none was available for missing persons who had reached the age of 18. Kristen always said she wanted to make a difference in the world. We believe that Kristen's Law will make a difference for other families searching for their at-risk adult loved ones."

http://www.modlink.com/kristen/html/updates.htm

[Litlstar04]

Randal Davis, who is the person that believes that he met Kristen in Nicaragua, posted a message in the guest book on www.findkristen.com. Here is a link: http://www.homestead.com/~site/Scripts_NewGuest/NewGuest.dll?CMD=CMDGetViewEntriesPage&STYLE=book%2F&ENTRYID=&FORWARDFLAG=true&GBID=13004701&DISPLAY=31&TARGETURL=default&EMAILADDRESS=ENC__c1f47ebf82eac3db2bd9f653eea541c5 6f2e636f6d&EM=true&CUSTOMVALUE=false&H_H=1750043208&H_P=1&H_A=0&H_V=2&H_U=21064
I'm going to post some more comments later, but just wanted to inform you of this interesting development. An interesting connection that the group that owns the property that she supposedly stayed at in Nicaragua was also in San Franciso at the same time. This case is incredibly strange!

[Litlstar04]

LE totally dropped the ball on this case altogether, in my opinion. From the beginning, when the Modaferris first arrived in San Francisco several days after Kristen was last seen, they were told that the investigating officer had gone home for the weekend, so they would have to wait until Monday. This was their missing child, but I think LE treated this case as a runaway, not a missing person case, in the beginning. If they would have brought in for questioning every single person Kristen knew in the short time she’d been in San Fran, I believe this case could have been solved a long time ago. We don’t know everything that Onuma told police. Obviously it wasn’t enough to arrest him, but it was enough to keep him under this cloud of suspicion. I don’t think that Jill Lampo had anything to do with what happened to Kristen, but that she’s not telling police everything that she knows. I think the missing pages of the diary contained strange actions or odd behavior on Onumas part that could have tipped LE off to his involvement in this. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the pages missing are from the days around the time Kristen disappeared. Plus, I remember that she made phone calls to her family in the middle of the night on these days, with the excuse that she and her family are close. I don’t know that many people that call their family in the middle of the night unless they’re upset about something. Why she won’t tell LE everything that she knows, I have no idea. Perhaps Onuma is that scary of a person, but I would think that she’d want Onuma in prison for what he’s done and where he can’t hurt her or anyone else. Anyway you look at it, Lampo has been able to go on with her life, while Kristen is still missing and the Mods continue to not have any answers. Here’s the question and answer session between the Mods and Lampo about five years after Kristen went missing: http://www.findkristen.com/JillLampo.html
As far as the picture of Lampo on the website, I think it’s hard to tell what she looks like. She doesn’t look white to me, but it’s not obvious that she’s black either. However, Dennis has met her and spoken to her on several occasions, so I think we have to trust what he says, that she is a black woman. I’m sure he wouldn’t discard the idea that Lampo could be the blonde-haired woman seen with Kristen if he didn’t have good reason to.

[rooftopny]

I read somewhere that Jill Lampo has supposedly begged to take a polygraph but for some reason she hasn't been given one ... does anyone know more about this? Surely she would jump at the chance to take one and it would finally clear her name of any suspicion after all these years. I'm convinced she knows something that has not been revealed. What with the past relationship with Onuma, the missing pages from her diary, the lack of initial information from Oakland PD all screams of suspicious knowledge and inconsistency. Maybe she's protecting herself for whatever reason but after all these years, shouldn't she be eliminated from the investigation once and for all?

I couldn't agree more that it seems apparent that someone who knew Kristen holds key information that has not been provided to the police. The initial investigation was not handled correctly -- there was no urgency and it's a travesty that the case is still unsolved as a result. From the 35 people that Kristen knew in San Francisco surely there must be two clues that match from two seperate people? I can't believe that there has been nothing after this length of time.

As much as I want to point the finger at Onuma, don't you think it's strange that say he is responsibible, why on earth would he make such an outlandish phone call to the Police about the two Lesbians? Surely if he was guilty, wouldn't it make sense for him to stay as far away as possible from the investigation? Or is he that twisted?

And as a second question, does anyone know when Jill and Onuma broke up? How long after Kristen went missing did they split up?

[Litlstar04]

Welcome to Websleuths rooftopny :)
I remember reading that it was a year after Kristen went missing that they searched Onuma's house and found Lampo's diary with the missing pages and Matthew Luque's name. Luque was an ex-boyfriend of Lampo's that worked at Spinelli's after Kristen, but had some friends that worked there when Kristen did. So if it was a year later and they still found some of Lampo's things there, I would assume that they were still not broken up at this time. Is it just a coincidence that one of Lampo's ex-boyfriends worked the same place as Kristen, or is it a possible connection to Onuma? We may never know, but, at any rate, Onuma is an incredibly sick individual. Whether or not he did it, he did threaten another woman that she might know the same fate as Kristen. I often wonder what Dennis and LE know to continue to think Onuma had something to do with whatever happened to Kristen.

[Jade]

Any idea why the new found friend Tristin and his family were eliminated as suspects quickly? An article said he was blonde. Could a longish haired blonde man be mistaken for a women? I know it said he had visited Kristen at work so some coworkers saw Tristan but did the ones who saw her talking to a blonde woman see him before?

[Litlstar04]

Is Tristin the male that she got a ride home from when she was stranded after a concert? If so, he was cleared because he immediately came forward to police and gave them all the information that he could. The police verified this information and said he was cleared. Perhaps he even had an alibi, but whatever he said, it was enough for LE to clear him. If you're not referring to the male at the concert, could you please tell us more about Tristin because this is the first time I've heard this name?

[rooftopny]

Thanks for the welcome. :) I formerly lived in Kristen's hometown (Charlotte, NC) and have followed this case since the beginning. I was an aquaintance of her older sister Allison and there are some similarities between me and KM that make the whole thing hit close to home. I have gotten my husband interested in the case so he will probably occassionally post under this name as well ...

Anyway, I believe Tristin is the guy she met at the concert. I read an old article from the weeks following her disappearance asking him to come forward and tell everything that he knows, but I didn't read that he did come forward and was cleared.

I'm also wondering about this personal ad that Kristen supposedly had with her belongings ... I've read articles that made it sound like the ad was circled or cut out, strongly suggesting that she answered it or intended to answer it. But I've also read articles that made it sound more like she just had the Bay Guardian newspaper in her room in general and police made the tenuous link between the ad and her. It seems like she would have mentioned to someone that she answered a personal ad or the number for the ad would be on her phone records, if such things are still in existence all these years later.

[rachel]

REgarding Randal Davis:

Before the server crashed in August, one of you (either LiLstar or up2) posted an email from Dennis Mahon. He spoke about his travelling to Colorado to meet someone who Randal said would know Kristen.
does anyone still have that email from DH? Could you post it? Or could you tell us again what had happened?

[Litlstar04]

I had emailed Dennis and asked him about the brief mention of Kristen’s case taking him to Colorado. I don’t still have the email because I accidentally erased all of my emails, and, unfortunately, the post was lost with one of the server crashes. I’ll try to remember it the best that I can… I believe he said that he came to Colorado to speak with Randal Davis. Unfortunately, they have been unable to corroborate Randal’s story, however, at least as far as any of the other people down there remembering Kristen. If you’ve gone to the guest book and seen Randal’s entry about the Mojica family being in Colorado, it raises a lot of questions. Was that why Randal went to Colorado or is it pure coincidence? I remember reading that Randal has done a lot of work and research to try to prove that it was Kristen that he met in Nicaragua.
I have also been confused about the significance of the personal ad. At one point in time, we asked Dennis about it in the guest book where several of us were discussing it. I had always thought that it was the ad itself, either cut out or circled that they found in her belongings. But, he said that it was just a copy of the Guardian that happened to have this ad in it. It sounds like Kristen so it may have come from her or she may have answered it, but we really don’t know. Since we don’t really know, we can’t put much emphasis on this point. I initially thought that may have been how she came into contact with Onuma – through the person that placed or answered that ad (the blonde woman seen with her.) But, there is also the possible connection between Onuma through Lampo’s ex-boyfriend, Matthew Luque.

[Jade]

Is Tristin the male that she got a ride home from when she was stranded after a concert? If so, he was cleared because he immediately came forward to police and gave them all the information that he could. The police verified this information and said he was cleared. Perhaps he even had an alibi, but whatever he said, it was enough for LE to clear him. If you're not referring to the male at the concert, could you please tell us more about Tristin because this is the first time I've heard this name?[/QUOTE]

Yes, the male she got the ride home with. Thanks rooftopny.
Do we know anything more about the description of the blonde? Was probably Lampo in a wig or weave......there is that connection to Spinellis. But no offence to S.F. but it seems that there would be many connections to sick individuals in such a large & unusual city.
Another question - how did Lampo and therefore Onuma afford the home in Hawaii? Family money, good jobs, Durst?

[Litlstar04]

I don't think we should continue thinking that Lampo was the blonde seen with Kristen in the Crocker Galleria. Obviously anything is possible, but for reasons that we may not know, Dennis does not feel that this is the case. He knows the most about the case, so I tend to agree with him.
There is the chance that Kristen was hurt by a complete stranger, but statistics (and I'm not sure of exact numbers here) show that the majority of the time the perp is someone the victim knows. With Kristen only being in SF a short amount of time, there was a limited number of people that she came into contact with.
I do not know how Onuma made a living, so I do not know how he or Lampo paid for their apartments, possessions, etc. I assume that LE knows this and probably Dennis also. Supposedly an investigator has been checking into a possible Durst connection to this case. Other than the initial article posted on the first page of this thread, I have not heard any follow-up on this. I think Durst was too much of a loner to be connected to Onuma, so if Durst has something to do with Kristen’s disappearance, I believe that it’s all on his own.

[rooftopny]

Speaking of Randal Davis, I saw a post that he placed on I believe Dennis' site, and he said definitively with authority "When I met Kristen..." and it just bothered me. I can't even imagine what her family or close friends would feel like when they read that, considering that his claim has been discounted and he is giving people false hope ... What do others think about this guy? I mean, is he mentally unstable or something? Because I can't imagine a mentally sound person making such an unfounded claim. I know it's been speculated that he is in cahoots with the perpetrator in this case, like he's trying to throw LE and the Mods off with his crazy story. But perhaps it's more likely that he's just challenged or delussional.

[Litlstar04]

I don't know what to think about this guy, either. Because the Mods and Dennis give enough credit to his story to place it on the website, I think maybe we should to. I've even seen the Mods place a message on the Peace Corps site asking anyone that was in Nicaragua at that time to contact them if they have any info. or can verify that Kristen was there. On the other hand, I've often thought that it could be a woman he mistook for Kristen. I only know Kristen through the website and articles and the pictures found there, but she looks different in some of them. I have often, probably out of wishful thinking, thought I've seen someone who looks exactly like Kristen and I think might be her. This a perfect example of the effect Randal's story has had - some part of me still thinks she might be out there somewhere. This is just another part of what makes Kristen's case so strange and frustrating. It is almost like she just disappeared off the face of the earth.

[Jade]

I wondered if LE had tried to run another personal ad and see who took the bait. I have my doubts about her running the ad becouse she seemed outgoing and already had two jobs where she probably met people. Responding to one maybe... When I was in SF I picked up one of those free papers and the ad section was pretty shocking and graphic. I would think a straight arrow like K. would steer clear.The ad in question itself seemed innocent enough.

The details on the case are so sketchy that there really isnt anything to chew on as far as sleuthing.
As I read further I see the Mods. want to keep the details off the net.

Quote from the Mods:So why don't we keep posting monthly, weekly or even daily updates? As much as we appreciate the sincere interest that each and every one of you has in knowing what is going on in our search for Kristen, there is a very real potential downside to revealing too much…showing our hand so to speak. We have never doubted that someone knows what happened to Kristen on June 23, 1997. As time marches on it appears that this someone is totally devoid of a conscience and any sense of doing what is morally right. So we have made a conscious decision not to outline every new step our investigators are taking, or what the latest piece of evidence is, or what's the latest word on the street that could ultimately expose those who know. We have faith. Good things are happening behind the scenes. When the time is right, those responsible for Kristen's disappearance will be brought to justice and we will have our answers.

Maybe it is time to blow it wide open. Throw the cards down on the table.

[Litlstar04]

I'm not quite sure what you mean, Jade...
Do you mean that you think the case is close to being blown wide open, or do you mean that maybe it's time for more information to be provided about this case?
One of the most frustrating things about this case is that it's hard to decipher fact from fiction. For example, I've always thought that is was fact that Kristen went to the Lands End area that day. Recently it's been revealed that the police only traced her scent to a bus stop, then presumed that she took the bus to the Lands End area that day. Maybe if they'd continued to follow the scent, they would have traced her to Onuma's house, which was located nearby. I only hope that LE really knows fact from fiction and the ambiguity is left for the rest of us in order to not tip of who is responsible.

[Jade]

I was thinking maybe it is time for more information. It could rekindle interest and gossip that might lead to something. Look at Laci's case. No hiding under a rock over there!
Insiders must know more -there are just so many questions.

I am leaving to go out of town for a work retreat for a week. I will check back on the thread when I get back.

[rooftopny]

[QUOTE=Litlstar04]I don't know what to think about this guy, either. Because the Mods and Dennis give enough credit to his story to place it on the website, I think maybe we should to.

I understand what you are saying Litlstar04, but I also think that a family in the Mods' position is going to follow up on any tips they get out of the hope that somehow they are going to get the answers they are looking for. They've put Davis' story on their site and put a message on the Peace Corp site because anything's worth a shot, but that doesn't change the fact that it's disturbing, in my opinion, to read Davis saying "when I met Kristen" as if it were fact. If he were to say "I believe I met Kristen" or "I met someone who could have been Kristen" I would have more respect for him. But as it stands, I think it does the case an injustice. Just my 2 cents ... :)

[Litlstar04]

http://www.rpcvla.org/_disc1/0000000e.htm
http://www.rpcvla.org/_disc1/0000000f.htm
The first link is Randal Davis' message and the second is the Modafferi's, posted on a peace corps board.
I agree with you that every parent is going to check out every lead. But, do you think they give every lead the credit that they've given Mr. Davis', that is putting it on the website and actively participating in trying to get others to come forward who may have also met Kristen? I'm not saying that the Modafferi's believe Mr. Davis' story, but for some reason, they think that it could be a possibility enough that they continue to pursue it.
I agree that if this were my loved one it would bother me that he continues to say "When I met Kristen," but he really does believe that he met Kristen, so I guess in his mind this will always be a true statement until something proves otherwise.

[Litlstar04]

http://www.findkristen.com/OnumaCallsDennis.html

Onuma called Dennis about a week ago to try to clear his name! According to Onuma, he is going to do whatever it takes in the upcoming weeks to clear his name and put this behind him. I wonder what all of this will mean for this case. I hope it brings some answers to the Modafferis!

[suladog]

JO said that KM's body was dumped in Point Rayes. If you look on the sutro baths web site, it says that Sutro Baths is part of the Golden Gate National REcreation Area, as is Point Reyes.... it's like this JO guy knows too much! If he had nothing to do with it....why would he specifically say Pt. Reyes?

Or this could be just nothing, and its known that Pt. Reyes is a popular place to dump bodies....like the East RIver in NYC.
LE hasn't disregarded the theory that KM fell and was in some sort of fatal accident. Don't they have people working in LE who can track tides and wind speeds and try to figure out where the body went? And if they're so sure of it, why didn't they send out divers to look for her? KM possibly was a bit more trusting than other people, but she certainly seems bright enough to read and comprehend a sign that says, "Danger!"

In addition, this Sutro Baths/Lands End area seems a little isolated. Also, I read on the ABC transcripts of the ABC special that indicated that not only is the area isolated, but it's not exactly the best crowd of people hanging out there. Does anyone have more familiarity with the area? Could you tell us a little about it? Is it known as a spot to stay away from, don't go alone, don't go in the evening, etc...

I'm posting and registered because I saw the website have read about the KM case and am very familiar with the Sutro Baths area having grown up less than a mile away from the site. Two years ago my husband and I were hired by the GGNRA to help redesign the new Sutro National Park that is currently being constructed on this site, so I've walked the site many many times.
First of all Sutro Baths is one of the most visited places in San Francisco..Tour buses (Greyline)routinely stop there..taking people to the Cliff House Restaurant, and Louis' restaurant..there are telescopes scattered through out the area for viewing Seal Rocks..it is generallly swarming with people..not lonely at all...depending on what time of day one is there...even in the evening it's well populated because of the resaurants...it is at the tip of the city and Land's End sounds forbidding but the actual Land's End Monument sits behind the Palace of the Legion Of Honor Museum..also a busy spot and adjoins a public golf course...from there it is a steep drop down to the beach..there are trails there but there are also many signs warning people not to go down, since there have been landslides over the years, and quite a few people have been lost, buried etc..and sometimes swept out to sea without being found. As a kid I must confess I disobeyed the signs..but I was 8 and didn't know much better...it's hard to believe an adult woman would voluntarily go down there...my father was Lieutenant of the San Francisco Fire Department Rescue Unit..so I know first hand of the many people lost at that location...Sutro on the other hand..has hiking trails that go down very steeply to the water...and the old bath complex...there is a wooded area in the complex also which it would not be advisiable to go into..it's been used over the years for prostitution, drug dealing..etc...while hiking the site with National Park Landscape achitects three years ago I observed numerous kids hanging around and "squatting" on park property..obviously this is not an area where one would want to go alone after dark...but during the day it is quite busy....hikers, dog walkers etc...it is possible for someone to lose one's footing even on the trails near the baths and go into the water..and I can tell you that not everyone who goes in has come out or been found..I can't think of what else to add about the place..it does have a spooky aspect..especially in foggy weather....but it's generally as I said before very busy filled with crowds of tourists..especially in the summer months....I hope this helps in giving background on the area..anything else I can help with just let me know.

[Up2theminute]

Wow, thank you so much for that information on the Land's End and Sutro baths area. That does give some realistic perspective to it now, aside from just pictures I mean.

[suladog]

Wow, thank you so much for that information on the Land's End and Sutro baths area. That does give some realistic perspective to it now, aside from just pictures I mean.

Glad I could be of help. I've wondered about this case since reading about it..I was thinking about it while we were working out there a couple of years ago...she's not the first person who's disappeared out there...in most cases it's been accidental slips from the cliffs by people unfamiliar with the area.

[Litlstar04]

Welcome suladog!
I was wondering if you knew whether or not people most generally witness people falling/stumbling over the cliffs? It seems to me that with so many people in the area, someone would see something. Plus, how else do they know that all of these people are falling into the water?
Since you know the area and this case, what do you think happened to Kristen?

[suladog]

Welcome suladog!
I was wondering if you knew whether or not people most generally witness people falling/stumbling over the cliffs? It seems to me that with so many people in the area, someone would see something. Plus, how else do they know that all of these people are falling into the water?
Since you know the area and this case, what do you think happened to Kristen?
also a case I found on doenetwork.com
Noel Annette Marcotte
Circumstances of Disappearance
Marcotte was last seen on March 24, 1990 at Sutro Baths in San Francisco, California. She fell into the ocean near the Cliff House and apparently drowned. She fell about 10 feet into the water about 10:15 p.m. Her boyfriend jumped in after her but could not find her.
These are a couple of cases..I can ask my dad what he remembers about the area and the years he was at the fire station on Geary that served the Sutro and Land's End area..but over the years people have fallen or jumped in the area..it would depend on the time of day, weather, and area of the park she might have been in regarding whether or not anyone might have seen her..weather on the day she went missing shows this...
The park covers a large area, someone could fall or be pushed without anyone noticing, it would be just a matter of timing..but I would think it would be a chance that someone intending ill to someone wouldn't want to take...at least at a populated time of day....walking the site back in 2001 with a party of park rangers, climbing down the steep paths made ME nervous and I grew up around the place...I was more concerned about losing my footing than anything else...but to construe that the area in itself is unsavory or a place where people shouldn't go is incorrect..however I'm inclined to think she never went to Sutro's that day,just because one inquires about a place doesnb't mean one is going there immediately..it also seems that KM was a bit of a risk taker..if as her roomates say she would stay over at people's houses, or stay out all night...several questions about this...is this what her roomates SAY about her...or what others who also knew her, knew her to do...since there are limits to being naive in this day and age and she was already on her own at school for one year...seems that there should have been more questioning of the roomates..also how were these roomates located..in other words how did she or her family find these people she moved in with..who recommended them? It seems highly unusual to move in with all male roomates, one has never met before, who was in charge of this planning...were they recommended by friends from NC or what? I do have some more thoughts on this I'll post later...I've tried to put some links in here but somehow they don't show up..help

[Litlstar04]

When I post links, I usually just copy the address from the page and paste it in my reply. Maybe that will be helpful...
Up2theminute and I have spent some time in the past discussing the roommates. Robert Cooke, who knows the Mods, also posted that it wasn't odd for people who barely knew Kristen, i.e. the roommates, to not know her schedule, and therefore not be worried right away that they hadn't seen her. From what I've gathered, Kristen went on line and researched the area to find a job and a place to live. She did all of this as part of a plan to convince her parents to let her do this. From a post that Griffin Cherry (one of her roommates) made in the Mods' guestbook, it sounds like he talked to her parents and Kristen on the phone before she moved out there. Beyond that, I've always been a little suspicious of some of her roommates' actions in the days after her disappearance. I remember reading somewhere (I think on Dennis Mahon's site) that they opened up Kristen's mail.
Here is a good place to read about this:
http://www.findkristen.com/ResponseRD.html
Also, her roommate Griffin Cherry has been brought up again in her guestbook by Randal Davis who is convinced that he met Kristen in Nicaragua.
http://www.homestead.com/~site/Scripts_NewGuest/NewGuest.dll?CMD=CMDGetViewEntriesPage&STYLE=book%2F&ENTRYID=&FORWARDFLAG=true&GBID=13004701&DISPLAY=31&TARGETURL=default&EMAILADDRESS=ENC__c1f47ebf82eac3db2bd9f653eea541c5 6f2e636f6d&EM=true&CUSTOMVALUE=false&H_H=1750043208&H_P=1&H_A=0&H_V=2&H_U=21064

[Babcat]

I read the entire site run by Dennis, the Mods' site, and all the links. I've been doing nothing but reading about this for about two weeks whenever I had some free time.

I don't think Onuma had anything to do with Kristen's disappearance. I believe he truly did just make that call to get even with the women employees of the Y that he didn't like. It was a stupid idea to make that call and he put himself under suspicion. For that reason I don't feel sorry for him or for Jill Lampo since she obviously saw something attractive in this obvious :loser: who kills animals and brutalizes girlfriends. But I also don't see any connection to Kristen's disappearance.

I don't think Kristen is dead. I think she either placed that ad or answered the ad placed there for a very specific reason. If I were the Modaferri's I would look into a group often referred to as the "Garbage Eaters" "The Brethren" or the "Robert's Group". It is a very powerful cult that operates across the country and baffles cult awareness groups at the speed at which they can suck in new members. While most cults methodically work on recruiting new members over a period of weeks or even months, the Brethren can have a new recruit giving up everything and disassociating with family in a matter of days... even hours! They target highly intelligent and spiritually aware college students, and one of their strongest bases is in Berkley.

[suladog]

When I post links, I usually just copy the address from the page and paste it in my reply. Maybe that will be helpful...

Ok..here's on elink I wanted to pass on about other missing people there
http://www.angelfire.com/mi3/mpccn/lupercio_richardo.html

[suladog]

When I post links, I usually just copy the address from the page and paste it in my reply. Maybe that will be helpful...

and one other site...
http://doenetwork.bravepages.com/1121dfca.html

[Babcat]

I don't mean to be rude... but why do they even include these people on the Doe Network? They state with certainty that these three people fell into the ocean. The one girl had a boyfriend that jumped in after her but couldn't locate her. I assume the others were witnessed falling in as well.

So what is the point of circulating these photos all these years? Do they really believe that these people surfaced elsewhere down current, only to emerge miraculously from the water and immediately meet with foul play? :confused: Talk about having a lousy day!

They aren't missing... they drowned. If they are going to put these people on missing persons sites, why aren't all our soldiers that were never recovered also on the sites?

[Up2theminute]

They are probably posted on the doe network in the event that the bodies are found and then they can be matched up against the cases of people who are suspected (or known) to have fallen victim to similar circumstances. A large part of the doe network is also the identification of found bodies which they also feature. The missing persons cold case network has sections for the same thing, but, true if it's listed in the regular missing section then that is kind of misleading. Although, there are cases that continue to be featured on there even after a perp has gotten convicted of a person's case, as long as the body is still missing it remains listed. Then there are also cases where the people have been found (as far as their body) but the actual crime has never been solved so they also remain among the other missing cold cases.

It's interesting that those cases are on there because I've read there a lot and coincidentally have never seen them. I know the part about falling and drowning at sutro baths would have stood out to me if I had seen it. But then there are many, many case directories and I definitely haven't read through all of them yet. Certainly the possibility of her falling into the water drowning is an interesting theory and interesting to read possible comparative cases should that turn out to have been the case for Kristen. I do have to wonder though what on earth those females in the cold cases were thinking by wearing high heels to walk around a place like that. :waitasec: Maybe that was an '80's thing. :o

The theory of Kristen being recruited into a cult is certainly an interesting possibility and could explain two things, the ad placed for friends that has not been able to be traced to anyone one way or the other and the unidentified blonde female seen walking with Kristen out of the galleria carrying a similar (identical?) backpack. Where is that person? And why have they never came forward? Perhaps because they are among the same group of people that has kept Kristen 'away' all these years? Maybe. She (Kristen) has always seemed a little naive to me, very intelligent, but naive and maybe a little too trusting. Not meant in an offensive way, but just an observation.

About the roommates, I don't think it's necessarily odd that they didn't know her schedule, especially if they really didn't know her well outside of just being someone who was staying there. I know I certainly didn't know everything my roommates were doing all the time and that's including the ones I considered friends. Another thing to keep in mind is that her class had not started yet. Maybe it would have been a little easier for them to have an idea of her schedule once her class started and she had class on top of work plus homework, etc. But at that point it was just her work schedule, which probably varied since it sounded like a seasonal job at a coffeehouse, and then her random exploring that she often did on her own at night. The choice of all-male roommates seems a little odd to me (personally) but apparently it didn't make a difference to Kristen and apparently it didn't seem that odd to her family. Also if I remember correctly I think Kristen's best friend or very good friend from NC State was a male so maybe she was just the type of girl who felt more comfortable with male friends and the family didn't see anything out of the ordinary about her choice either. The part about opening her mail is odd though. :(

[Babcat]

I have a very strong feeling she is among this group (the Roberts Group).

Parents of young people known to be in the cult set up their own website. Here is an excerpt from one of the pages:

As parents we recognize that while each of our sons and daughters is unique and may have had different goals and lifestyles, there are many similarities among them. This section might give you an idea of who our offspring are and why your son or daughter might be with this group.

Intelligent. Our sons and daughters are intelligent, inquisitive, young adults, who were successful students in school. Many were recruited at college campuses where they were attending classes. The Roberts Group frequently recruits young men and women at university campuses, student gathering places, libraries, concerts, and events such as Rainbow gatherings.

Talented. Many excelled in hobbies and were athletic, artistic and musically skilled.

Spiritual. They seemed to be reaching out for some unfulfilled spiritual experience and lifestyle even though they may have been very connected to their family's spiritual substance.

Personable. Our sons and daughters tended to be attractive, well behaved, well mannered, and self-disciplined.

Age. Most were recruited between the age of seventeen and twenty-one; however, there were some younger and some older.

These characteristics are displayed to various degrees in all of our sons and daughters and are reflective of the Roberts Group in general.


Kristen was a gifted student academically. She excelled in choral music. She was outgoing and independent but too young to be in that city all by herself. Sorry if that seems judgemental of her parents but I firmly stick by the belief that no way would my child have gone there alone and then refused to stay in the dorms as well. I don't care if she was eighteen... if her parents had pushed back she would have stopped pushing.

She had read the Bible cover to cover of her own volition. She was obviously searching for something. She made a remark to her mother about not being as impressed as she expected to be... or finding no revelations in Revelation. This girl was a cult member waiting to be recruited. She was the poster child of "easy target".

[Up2theminute]

I definitely think the joining a cult theory is a possibility to seriously consider. It certainly wouldn't hurt to try and is no more (or less) far-fetched a possibility than the Nicaragua sighting (which I personally don't believe and after reading the message board links that Litlstar showed me I really think Randal Davis is just a little bit not all there). Have you thought about submitting this as a 'tip' to the Modaferris?

[Babcat]

I cannot imagine that the Modafferis haven't already been told about this group. They are notorious on college campuses. They always look to prey on the most motivated and independent uppermost percentile of students. They look for those with a strong religious base to begin with. It is far easier convincing a believer that you are the "true" interpreters of the word of God, than it would be to convince a non believer that the word of God is anything but an ancient work of literature in the first place. And those that recruit new members are trained very well.

The primary purpose of the Roberts Group, aside from diligent study of the scriptures, is to recruit new members. The basic pattern for recruitment is usually the same. As you'll read in the section Profiles of Our Sons and Daughters, prospective members fit a general profile which Roberts Group members recognize because of similarities to themselves.

College campuses appear to be the main area of recruitment. The Roberts Group is also active at concerts, libraries, and public gatherings in cities that might draw a counter culture crowd.

Shortly after a member has met a potential recruit, the conversation turns to the scriptures. The member witnesses to the recruit and uses scripture to make the recruit feel guilty and inadequate. The member tells of their glorious nomadic lifestyle, total allegiance to the Lord, and paints an idealistic picture of their life. They don't tell the potential recruit about the stringent rules pertaining to family, marriage, and freedoms. They convince the recruit that people in the world lack the discipline to lead spiritual lives and make a good argument with their superior knowledge of the scriptures. A sense of urgency may be applied to hasten the recruit's decision so that the "seed of salvation, which has been planted in the heart, will not be snatched away by Satan." Pressure to decide now and not think about the consequences or ask for advice from outside the Roberts Group can be overwhelming to someone at a crossroads in their life.

The recruit, overcome by idealism and their own sense of altruism, commits to the Roberts Group. Once committed, they're encouraged to get rid of all their worldly possessions. Any money the recruit has may be used to pay debts and buy necessities.

The recruit is often required to write home to their family. This usually happens in the first week. The letter is general, just telling the family everything is all right. Another letter might follow a few weeks later. This letter may contain many of the scripture passages that support the Roberts Group's lifestyle. Follow-on letters may become critical of the parents as the Roberts Group members work to sever the ties to family and make the recruit emotionally dependent on the Roberts Group. These early letters are intentionally designed to delay searching by the family and to throw them off the trail while it's warm and traceable. Some recruits never write home. Many families receive letters marking a complete detachment, with no more communication, cruelly declaring, "This is the last letter you will ever get from me."

The recruit becomes indoctrinated into the Roberts Group, with the Elders as their teachers. The recruit can make friends with other members and is responsible to any member with seniority, which, in the case of a new recruit, is everyone in the Roberts Group. Men are not subordinate to women, no matter how senior the sister is. Women are subordinate to all men, regardless of seniority. New women are subordinate to everyone.

...and thus, filled with youthful expectations and idealism, a young, impressionable recruit becomes a Roberts Group member.

[Litlstar04]

This is the first time that I've heard of the Roberts Group - thanks for posting about it Babcat. Not that I believe all that Randal Davis is saying, but he mentioned something in the guest book about objectivism. Does this have anything to do with the Roberts Group? The most that I've been able to find out about it is that it's an Ayn Rand ideology, but Randal mentioned that there is a chapter located in San Francisco. If Kristen did become involved in the Roberts Group, could she have ended up in Nicaragua?
Two things that don't make sense to me about the Roberts Group possibility. 1) Kristen left money in her bank account and a paycheck unclaimed. Wouldn't she/they have seen it as important to take this money with her? 2) She never contacted her family. I wouldn't have thought this odd, except it specifically says that the family is contacted. I think Kristen would be one of the first to want to contact her family to let them know she's alright, but chosen the path of the Roberts Group.

[Litlstar04]

This is also interesting that someone found and posted in the guestbook on Dennis' site www.findkristen.com:
http://peoplesearchers.com/missing-people-search/find/theshanana.htm

[Babcat]

Many of the recruits never contact their family... and many are encouraged not to contact family if the group gets the impression that a vigorous campaign will be launched to retrieve the child/loved one. The above information (copied from the site) is being kind... way TOO kind, to the Robert's cult. They are not nice people. They lie and deceive and they justify it by saying that people outside their group are doomed to hell and not worthy of the truth. The parents that run that website refrain from calling the group Garbage Eaters or painting them in an excessively bad light because they hold out hope their children will find a way (perhaps through a library) to access the site. They do not want to anger or insult a child that may be wrestling with the issue of leaving the group.

THEY ARE NOT INTERESTED IN MONEY. This sets them apart from many cults because the underlying motivation has never been money. They only encourage new recruits to retrieve paychecks or tend to their bank accounts if the recruit owes a debt that can be settled before entering the group. This is to protect against the possibility of debt collectors attempting to find the recruit. Collection agencies are better detectives than law enforcement. Kristen owed no debts that I've ever seen mentioned.

I do not believe that Randal Davis ever encountered any young woman in Nicaragua as he describes, let alone Kristen Modaferri. I think he's a kook. :loser:

His story sounded believable enough, except for the immediate red flag that a 55+ year-old man was gushing about possibly being "in love" with a girl he estimated to be about the age his children would normally be, if he had/has any. That in itself may be nausiating albeit not unheard of, :rolleyes: until one actually reads his account of the story. He hardly had any contact with the "mystery girl" and actually spends too much of the reader's time rambling on about being bitten by a dog (and he thought it might have had Rabies, but finds out it ate a toad :doh: ) for no apparent reason whatsoever! :confused: One keeps waiting for the incident to somehow connect to the "mystery girl" yet it never does. None of his "adventures" do! A typed page worth of story of travels in South America give us a glimpse of the "mystery girl" for a grand total of perhaps an hour he may have spent in her company. He distastefully refers to the girl as "Kristen" to lend creedence to his claim, yet his version of events leaves one skeptical that he ever knew the name of the young woman. And he freely gives the names of others at the inn who turn out to be real people who remember Mr. Davis without effort... yet not one of them remembers ever having seen the young woman he describes. They readily remember him, but they have no recollection of her. This story is either a figment of Mr. Davis' imagination that he has, over time, convinced himself really happened... or he is well aware it is a lie and he enjoys the attention.

[Jade]

Randal seems to have quite a memory for details until it comes to the mystery girl.

I have thought so much about this case and all I can think is that she was a predators dream come true.

[Litlstar04]

My two previous issues with the Roberts Group theory were based on reading the blurbs about the group that were quoted on here previously. Once I had a chance to read a little more about them this morning, I found what you're referring to, Babs, that only some members are ever allowed to contact their families. The debt collector explanation for money left behind makes sense also. I wonder if her roommates were at all connected to this group and opened her mail to make sure she had no outstanding debts.
I'm still having a hard time, though, with the theory that she voluntarily walked away from her life. She was getting ready to start her class, which was the whole reason why she went to San Fran, plus she'd just started a new job. If she had fallen into the company of these people, don't you think that we'd begin to see their influence on her life, like maybe her not showing up for that first day of her new job? All of her plans and continued efforts to follow through on her plans to me do not sound like a person who will soon make the choice to walk away from everything.

[suladog]

I've seen these Robert's Group people around LA over the years..I ran across this article..
http://web.insidevc.com/getlocal/moorpark/356464.shtml
I suppose vanishing into a cult is a possibility...I'm also still bothered by the roomates..one can't tell much by checking the internet for references I 'm still astonished that her parents let her do that..did they ever meet these people before she moved out there into their house?

[suladog]

he mentioned something in the guest book about objectivism. Does this have anything to do with the Roberts Group? The most that I've been able to find out about it is that it's an Ayn Rand ideology, but Randal mentioned that there is a chapter located in San Francisco. If Kristen did become involved in the Roberts Group, could she have ended up in Nicaragua?

I've known a lot of Objectivists and former Objectivists over the years..for one...they're all athiests certainly not candidates for the Roberts Group...and secondly I've never heard ANY of them even remotely interested in Nicaragua unless it was 20 years ago and they were backing the Contras.....New Zealand is a place they talk about fondly not Nicaragua..secondly it's not a philosphy that naturally extols art or music..it is a philosophy of reason..most of the O'ists I've met have been scientists or economistsor deeply into Philosophy. And yes, Ayn Rand is the founder of Objectivist Theory.

[rachel]

Regarding the Kristen theories:
1) Like I said before, I think that if anyone wanted to kill Kristen, they'd have to know what they're doing to do such a good job of covering their tracks. Ie-Jon Onuma- as Dennis said on his website, "he's no choir boy." But that's a far cry from murder. BUT, then how come he screamed at someone, "Now you'll know what happened to KM?" And how come those pages were missing from Jill's diary/date book? And Dennis says that Jill is lying about SOMETHING, we just don't know what... So we have three unanswered questions in regard to them, although that doesn't mean they're guilty.

2) Nicaruaga. 2 problems with this theory. There is no record of her travelling with the National Passport Service (Dennis and the Mods checked). Without a passport, how could she have traveled. It's a lot of borders to have to cross without getting caught. The other problem is that no one else from Peace Corp or anyone else at that time also remembers her. I agree with Babcat, I also saw red flags when I read that Randall was "falling in love" with a kid young enough to his own!

3)Sutro Baths. I have a question for Suladog: Are there other people who have been lost at Sutro Baths and their bodies have not been found? If so, this could be a possibility. Here at websleuths, we've always been under the assumption that if something happened to her at the baths, then her body would have been found. Perhaps we're wrong.

4) A cult. I agree with everyone else, that a cult is no more bizarre than the Nicaruagua theory, if anything, more probable. In high school, the PTA once organized a "cult deprogrammer" to come speak to us one day. He showed us a movie, called "Ticket to Heaven," about a boy who got involved with the Moonies. He spoke to us about who and how cults target, how to protects ourselves, etc...There are "professionals" who do this type of thing- they are hired by parents to get the kids out. Although we have no idea if this is a possibility or not, it might be worthwhile for the Mods to maybe set up an appointment with one of these guys, and they can discuss Kristen, and see if her "profile" and circumstances fit. I imagine that in a city like San Fran, the police dept. has cult experts that they work with and whatnot.
I think I read on the DM website that someone once contacted the Mods and told them that his daughter had gotten involved with the rAinbow group, and they should check it out. He said he "had a hell of a time getting her out."

[Babcat]

Hi.

My mom used to use the same hat on here.

Deprogrammers for kids who have been sucked into cults have become scarce since federal lawsuits have been filed against many... and some have even faced criminal kidnapping charges. In several cases the deprogramming did not work and the subject pressed charges. Most of the cult members are legally adults... so if it doesn't work you have a world of hurt on your hands beyond simply having once again lost your child. Most of the parents along with the deprogrammers have been forced to cross state lines to snatch their children from the jaws of these freaks. Once state lines are crossed it becomes a federal kidnapping charge that carries an even higher penalty. And of course the ACLU has jumped on this like flies on sh**. They would step on their grandmother's face to "legally" persecute main stream Christianity... but they won't stand for parents who want to save their adult children from Nazi-like mind control. :behindbar

If you have a free moment and are interested in the sort of damage cults can do, check out:
http://www.lisamcpherson.org/ (what Scientology can do for the soul :sick: )
http://members.tripod.com/~nfishel/index.html (Desperate parents and family of the Garbage Eaters :( )
http://www.watchman.org/lds/bldatone.htm (The horrible murder of the entire Avery family, including three little girls, in the name of "religion". :furious: )

Better link for this story: http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/mass/lundgren/fate_15.html?sect=8

[Litlstar04]

http://www.findkristen.com/Momi.html

An update on the Onuma situation...

[Babcat]

Babcat, where did you read the part about her telling her mother something about not being satisfied, finding no revelations in Revelations, etc? Was that in the parents' journal? I'm just asking because I don't remember but I haven't read the whole thing in awhile.

The information is partially on Dennis' site. He actually makes the statement "no revelations in revelations". I also read more in depth information about how Kristen interpreted that part of the Bible, somewhere else but now I'm having a hard time finding it. It seems to me that it was her mother who related the story of having the conversation with Kristen about the book of Revelations.

[Litlstar04]

Another update on Onuma...
http://www.findkristen.com/PhoneRecords.html

[rachel]

http://www.findkristen.com/Momi.html

An update on the Onuma situation...


Hi lilstar-
the link doesn't work. Could you check it, or tell us what the page says?

Another question: Dennis says he wants JO's passport records to see if he was ever in Nicauragua. why would that help?
1) Even if he was in Nicauagua, that still doesn't give us proof that he has anything to do with KM's disappearance. Especially since no one else in Granada remembers her, and there is a consensus here that Randall is uh.... two loaves short of a picnic, if you know what I mean. :loser:
2) If JO wasn't in Nicaruagua, that doesn't clear him from possible involvement in the disappearance of KM- unless his records indicate he was there on 6/23/97 :rolleyes:

I think Dm might be barking up the wrong tree on this one.

[Juliana]

Hi lilstar-
the link doesn't work. Could you check it, or tell us what the page says?

Another question: Dennis says he wants JO's passport records to see if he was ever in Nicauragua. why would that help?
1) Even if he was in Nicauagua, that still doesn't give us proof that he has anything to do with KM's disappearance. Especially since no one else in Granada remembers her, and there is a consensus here that Randall is uh.... two loaves short of a picnic, if you know what I mean. :loser:
2) If JO wasn't in Nicaruagua, that doesn't clear him from possible involvement in the disappearance of KM- unless his records indicate he was there on 6/23/97 :rolleyes:

I think Dm might be barking up the wrong tree on this one.

I know you were addressing someone else, but just thought I would throw in my 2 cents worth. I don't think JO's passport records could "clear" him of any involvement with KM, but if they show that he was in Nicaurauga (sp!) it might give Kristen's family a lead to investigate more thoroughly and just be one more suspicious circumstance tying JO to KM.

IMO

[Litlstar04]

rachel, the link doesn't work anymore because Dennis took the page down. He originally put it up to pressure some people in Hawaii to come forward with everything they knew about Onuma. Since Onuma called Dennis again, or perhaps the women in question contacted him also, he took the page down. To summarize: Onuma has been working at a Day Care Center in Hawaii where the mother of his child was also employed. Dennis tried to call this woman, Momi, and she hung up on him. Dennis then pressured the owner of the Day Care Center to contact him with any info. she had about Onuma, and also to alert her that it isn't okay with people that a person like Onuma is working with kids.
I don't know what came of this, but I'm assuming it was satisfactory to Dennis for him to take it down.
I'm not quite sure what it means if Onuma's passport records do/don't show activity in Nicaragua. I think this is just valuable information period - to have any sort of tracking of Onuma's whereabouts before and after Kristen's disappearance. Onuma's cooperation at all in this is a much needed change to hopefully bring some answers to the Mods.

[rachel]

rachel, the link doesn't work anymore because Dennis took the page down. He originally put it up to pressure some people in Hawaii to come forward .


Thanks for clearing that up.


Does anyone else have a hard time spelling Nicaragua? :doh:

[Litlstar04]

:laugh: LOL Does anyone else have a hard time spelling Nicaragua?
After this case, we sure won't! Every other sentence is Nicaragua this and Nicaragua that!
Has anyone ever been to Nicaragua? I never thought of it as much of a place to visit, but it seems there are a lot of people going down there. I was just wondering what it's like...

[rooftopny]

I wanted to jump in with my two cents on the theory that Kristen may have been recruited to the Roberts Group camp. Kristen may have been interested in religion/spirituality and she came from a religious family, but from what I know of her (which is through being acqainted with people in her family -- I never met her), there is no way that she has spent the last six, nearly seven years in a cult. She had everything in the world going for her and she was extremely close to her family and friends. I believe she was naive in some ways, mainly too trusting of people she didn't know, but this doesn't mean she was sucked into a cult. I understand that it's happened to some young people, but it's not plausible in this case, in my opinion.

Also, it's been brought up a few times in this forum that if she was murdered, her murderer must have been a pro to have disposed of her body in such a way that she hasn't been found. I understand what the person meant, but it seemed like the implication was that this is nearly impossible, while actually this happens all the time. I don't know if JO is that skilled at disposing of bodies, but if it weren't feasible to dispose of people without a trace, there wouldn't be thousands of missing people in this country alone. Has anyone read The Lovely Bones? The way that the protagonist's body was disposed of sends chills down my spine. There is no way that anyone would have ever found her.

[Litlstar04]

Hey rooftopny, I haven't seen you around here lately.
I completely agree with you and have been meaning to post about the same thing. If Kristen was murdered, the fact that a body has never been found means nothing. It doesn't even have to be hidden that well for it to have not been found. There are many cases out there where a body is only stumbled across years later by accident.

[rooftopny]

To believe it isn't feasible is to close the door on a possibility that is very real, and to deny the reality of dozens of families who have lost children to this cult.[/QUOTE]

I understand what you're saying, and I completely acknowledge that many missing young people have been lured into cults. However, in Kristen's case, and her case only, I think it is highly unlikely.

[Up2theminute]

The Kristen Foundation
"Offering Hope to Families of Endangered Adults"
http://www.modlink.com/kristen/html/updates.htm
http://www.cdswebs.com/kristen/news.htm

[suladog]

Regarding the Kristen theories:

3)Sutro Baths. I have a question for Suladog: Are there other people who have been lost at Sutro Baths and their bodies have not been found? If so, this could be a possibility. Here at websleuths, we've always been under the assumption that if something happened to her at the baths, then her body would have been found. Perhaps we're wrong.

Sorry I haven't been around here for quite a while....I've had work deadlines..but I know from my dad who was Lieutenant of the SFFD Rescue Squad..there have been people lost there and the bodies not recovered.

[Litlstar04]

This thread has been inactive for quite some time, so I thought I'd post about some new information from Dennis Mahon's site, www.findkristen.com. Dennis is on his way to Hawaii to try to find out any information that will either clear Onuma for once and for all or finally prove that Onuma has some involvement in Kristen's disappearance. He's also in the process of posting details of other women's stories of their experiences with Onuma.
http://www.findkristen.com/DennisHawaii.html

[Eagle1]

Can someone give a brief description of these baths, or has it already been discussed ad nauseum? Caves? I may have read that somewhere.

Thanks for the update about the upcoming trip to Hawaii.

[Lisa]

Can someone give a brief description of these baths, or has it already been discussed ad nauseum? Caves? I may have read that somewhere.

Thanks for the update about the upcoming trip to Hawaii.

I was curious about these as well - I found some pictures and information online:

http://www.pixelpixie.net/baths.html
http://members.tripod.com/apollo_photocards/photos/sf/sbaths/
http://www.cliffhouseproject.com/environs/sutrobaths/sutro_baths.htm

[Litlstar04]

I'm posting and registered because I saw the website have read about the KM case and am very familiar with the Sutro Baths area having grown up less than a mile away from the site. Two years ago my husband and I were hired by the GGNRA to help redesign the new Sutro National Park that is currently being constructed on this site, so I've walked the site many many times.
First of all Sutro Baths is one of the most visited places in San Francisco..Tour buses (Greyline)routinely stop there..taking people to the Cliff House Restaurant, and Louis' restaurant..there are telescopes scattered through out the area for viewing Seal Rocks..it is generallly swarming with people..not lonely at all...depending on what time of day one is there...even in the evening it's well populated because of the resaurants...it is at the tip of the city and Land's End sounds forbidding but the actual Land's End Monument sits behind the Palace of the Legion Of Honor Museum..also a busy spot and adjoins a public golf course...from there it is a steep drop down to the beach..there are trails there but there are also many signs warning people not to go down, since there have been landslides over the years, and quite a few people have been lost, buried etc..and sometimes swept out to sea without being found. As a kid I must confess I disobeyed the signs..but I was 8 and didn't know much better...it's hard to believe an adult woman would voluntarily go down there...my father was Lieutenant of the San Francisco Fire Department Rescue Unit..so I know first hand of the many people lost at that location...Sutro on the other hand..has hiking trails that go down very steeply to the water...and the old bath complex...there is a wooded area in the complex also which it would not be advisiable to go into..it's been used over the years for prostitution, drug dealing..etc...while hiking the site with National Park Landscape achitects three years ago I observed numerous kids hanging around and "squatting" on park property..obviously this is not an area where one would want to go alone after dark...but during the day it is quite busy....hikers, dog walkers etc...it is possible for someone to lose one's footing even on the trails near the baths and go into the water..and I can tell you that not everyone who goes in has come out or been found..I can't think of what else to add about the place..it does have a spooky aspect..especially in foggy weather....but it's generally as I said before very busy filled with crowds of tourists..especially in the summer months....I hope this helps in giving background on the area..anything else I can help with just let me know.
This is a good post with information about the area from someone with first-hand knowledge of the baths.

[Litlstar04]

also a case I found on doenetwork.com
Noel Annette Marcotte
Circumstances of Disappearance
Marcotte was last seen on March 24, 1990 at Sutro Baths in San Francisco, California. She fell into the ocean near the Cliff House and apparently drowned. She fell about 10 feet into the water about 10:15 p.m. Her boyfriend jumped in after her but could not find her.
These are a couple of cases..I can ask my dad what he remembers about the area and the years he was at the fire station on Geary that served the Sutro and Land's End area..but over the years people have fallen or jumped in the area..it would depend on the time of day, weather, and area of the park she might have been in regarding whether or not anyone might have seen her..weather on the day she went missing shows this...
The park covers a large area, someone could fall or be pushed without anyone noticing, it would be just a matter of timing..but I would think it would be a chance that someone intending ill to someone wouldn't want to take...at least at a populated time of day....walking the site back in 2001 with a party of park rangers, climbing down the steep paths made ME nervous and I grew up around the place...I was more concerned about losing my footing than anything else...but to construe that the area in itself is unsavory or a place where people shouldn't go is incorrect..however I'm inclined to think she never went to Sutro's that day,just because one inquires about a place doesnb't mean one is going there immediately..it also seems that KM was a bit of a risk taker..if as her roomates say she would stay over at people's houses, or stay out all night...several questions about this...is this what her roomates SAY about her...or what others who also knew her, knew her to do...since there are limits to being naive in this day and age and she was already on her own at school for one year...seems that there should have been more questioning of the roomates..also how were these roomates located..in other words how did she or her family find these people she moved in with..who recommended them? It seems highly unusual to move in with all male roomates, one has never met before, who was in charge of this planning...were they recommended by friends from NC or what? I do have some more thoughts on this I'll post later...I've tried to put some links in here but somehow they don't show up..help
Other links about missing people from this area provided by suladog:
http://www.angelfire.com/mi3/mpccn/...o_richardo.html
http://doenetwork.bravepages.com/1121dfca.html
At one point, someone had posted pictures of the Sutro Baths/Lands End area that they had taken. Maybe they got lost in one of the server changes...

Edited to add: I can't get the angelfire link to work when I copy and paste it, but if you