Seaching for Anna, Part 2

[Dr. Doogie]

Her ya' go.

[Annasmom]

Her ya' go.
Doogie, are they going to lock Part One so that people don't go on posting there?

[Dr. Doogie]

Doogie, are they going to lock Part One so that people don't go on posting there?
I will have to look into that. I'll see what I can do.

[Dr. Doogie]

The other thread is now locked.

[Annasmom]

Todd (who did the Missing Pieces show with Doogie) sent these statistics on missing persons for our information.

Please pass along this message to whomever
might have a need for this information. Specific
state statistics are available upon request.
NCIC Statistics - derived from stats provided by
the FBI-NCIC for media relations -- USA & Canada

~ UPDATED ~

According to the FBI-NCIC there are (approximately) Current as of the December 31, 2006 indexing 110,484 Missing Persons listed in their system. Children and adult. (Up from last months total of 109,592 )

There are (approximately) 6,208 Unidentified Persons listed their system. Children and adult.
(Up from last month's total of 6,205)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As of 1-30-06
Of the 108, 949 missing...only 1,435 of them are Canadian numbers.

Of the 5,972 unidentified...only 50 of them are Canadian numbers.
The rest are USA and its territories.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Most Missing City:
as of 12-31-06
Washington DC has more missing persons than any other city (listed with the NCIC) with
4,042 missing persons. (Up from last month's total of 3,963)

Most Unidentified City:
as of 12-31-06 New York City has more unidentified persons than any other city (listed with the NCIC) with 399 unidentified persons (Down from last month's total of 402)
__________________________________________________ ______________________

The numbers fluctuate due to newly entered cases and removal of resolved cases.
Often cases are often purged and / or expire.

For additional information:
http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cjisd/missingpersons.htm

__________________________________________________ ____________________

Gender specifics - as of August 2005 -

1,474 active unidentified female entries,
4,264 active unidentified male entries
and 213 active unidentified unknown sex entries.
__________________________________________________ ________________

A spike/ drop in numbers does not necessarily mean an increase in missing and unidentified; it can means that more cases are being entered/ removed into the system.

Older cases are often added to the NCIC years after the actual event initially took place.


DoeNetwork Updates:
www.DoeNetwork.us/update.html
NAMPN Updates:
www.nampn.doenetwork.us/updates.html
__________________________________________________ _______________

Updates courtesy of & posted monthly at -
www.TheLostAndTheFound.com
and / or
www.LFGRC.org

(State specific information available upon request.)

We promote many great volunteer / professional organizations listed on the Lost & Found. Please visit to find someone out there who can be of help for your own missing / unidentified persons cases.
__________________________________________________ _________________


The NCIC statistics reflect the USA, Canada and their territories.

Some experts feel that these are only 10-50% of the actual numbers as not all cases are / were reported to the NCIC by law enforcement. We hope to encourage more agencies to take full advantage of this available resource. We hope to see a retroactive approach to the submission process as well.

There are many cases that are not yet listed with the NCIC. Missing-person experts estimate that the bodies of 40,000 to 50,000 unidentified men, women and children were found by police during the past 50 years.

For the family members of the missing, it is imperative that they properly report and request that their loved one's case is indeed listed in the NCIC. The law enforcement agency in charge are the only ones that can submit the case to the NCIC.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The International Homicide Investigators Association estimates there are more than 40,000
unidentified dead nationally. (USA)
_____________________________________________ ____________________________

Important Tips for family members of the lost from the Outpost For Hope :
http://www.outpostforhope.org/missing_loved_ones/checklist.htm

__________________________________________________ __________________________________

www.ColdCasesGroup.com

YOU can help! Feel free to join the 2,000 + members at the 8 year old COLDCASES discussion group on Yahoo Groups: www.ColdCasesGroup.com

__________________________________________________ ________________
Please pass along this message to whomever
might have a need for this information.Specific
state statistics are available upon request.
__________________________________________

PROJECT EDAN
Everyone Deserves A Name Changing the faces of the
missing & unidentified Any evidence or information discovered during reconstruction
process will be directly reported to the law enforcement agency.

www.ProjectEDAN.us
Forensic & Age Progression
Art Service -

FREE to Law Enforcement &
approved non profit organizations.

Sketches Express The Softer Side Of The Missing Women
http://missingpeople.net/sketches_express_softer_side_of.htm

'Everyone Deserves A Name' is truth seeker's creed
http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060221/NEWS03/602210338
__________________________________________________ __________________

Todd Matthews
JTMatthews@Twlakes.Net
www.TentGirl.com
Director ~ www.ProjectEDAN.us &
www.TheLostAndTheFound.com
Media Director / Board ~
www.DoeNetwork.us
www.OutpostForHope.org
www.FourTheKids.org
www.NYmissing.com
Member ~ www.TheIAI.org
www.NomisProject.com
Host ~ www.MissingPieces.info
931-397-3893
www.FourTheKids.org

_________________________

[SherlockJr]

Where about on the road did the carpenter friend stop to look at horses when he saw a van with 2 men driving west. Was the carpenter east of the ranch or west of the ranch?


http://websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=45&stc=1

[Annasmom]

Where about on the road did the carpenter friend stop to look at horses when he saw a van with 2 men driving west. Was the carpenter east of the ranch or west of the ranch?


http://websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=45&stc=1
He would have been coming from the Coast Highway, which would put him west of the ranch.

[SherlockJr]

He would have been coming from the Coast Highway, which would put him west of the ranch.Does it make sense that after the van passed the carpenter on the road that they would turn around heading east now and take Anna if she happened to go up to the road to check the mail? Or that it's possible they found a spot west of the ranch to pull over, walk thru woods near creek and take Anna from the backyard?

[SherlockJr]

He would have been coming from the Coast Highway, which would put him west of the ranch.
Is the Coast Highway also known as Rt 1 or Hwy 35?

[Gina_M]

Is the Coast Highway also known as Rt 1 or Hwy 35?
Coast Highway is Route 1.

[Annasmom]

Does it make sense that after the van passed the carpenter on the road that they would turn around heading east now and take Anna if she happened to go up to the road to check the mail? Or that it's possible they found a spot west of the ranch to pull over, walk thru woods near creek and take Anna from the backyard? Sherlock, we have always thought that whoever took Anna watched the farm from Higgins/Purisima Road (where Doogie took the pictures), drove down when they saw her in the yard, picked her up on the road when she went to check the mail, and then continued west toward the Coast Highway (Highway One).

[SherlockJr]

I thought the carpenter reported he saw Anna in the yard when he arrived???

[Annasmom]

I thought the carpenter reported he saw Anna in the yard when he arrived???Oh, duh, you're right. I wasn't thinking. He said he greeted her at the front yard, which is why we thought she was going to check the mail (because there wasn't anything else to do in front of the house, so no other reason for her to be there.)

[GraceBlue]

Annasmom-I was thinking of the story Annasbro told of him and Anna walking on some road when the woman asked Anna to get in the car. Was that Purisima road ? Or was it some dirt 'back road'? (I cant remember.) Do you think Anna would have walked there by herself the day she disappeared?

[Annasbro]

It was Purisima Rd. and it was about 1/3 of a mile east of our house heading to the back of the canyon

[Annasmom]

Annasmom-I was thinking of the story Annasbro told of him and Anna walking on some road when the woman asked Anna to get in the car. Was that Purisima road ? Or was it some dirt 'back road'? (I cant remember.) Do you think Anna would have walked there by herself the day she disappeared? This was Purisima Creek Road, the paved county road which ran east and west of our house. The mailboxes were on this road, but were not visible from our living room, since the house was below the level of the road. Anna may have gone up to the road to check the mailbox (remember, a friend said he greeted her at the front door), but it is unlikely that she would have walked farther down the road by herself (there was nothing to see down that way), and even if she had, there were many searchers, Sheriff's men, etc., parked and walking along that road within the hour.

[Dr. Doogie]

Please post any specific questions for Annasmom or any messages directed to individual posters here (unless they relate specifically to one of the already established threads, then post them into the appropraite thread.). The reason for this is that if we start new threads on "micro-topics", the number of threads will make the forum very difficult to follow.

Thanks for everyone's cooperation! :)

[Dr. Doogie]

This is something that was discussed on the original thread for Anna, but may not be known by most here, so I want to repeat this information:

This case has no known tie-in to the Zodiac case.

There are a few coincidences that created interest (listed and evaluated below):

* An early suspect in the case was named George Waters (this fact is prominently mentioned in the new Zodiac movie and is why I am posting this info). This GW was a bartender in Vallejo, not a doctor in San Francisco and is not the same man.

* It is believed by some that Zodiac victim Darlene Ferrin knew the Zodiac and that he had stalked her in her job as a waitress at various coffee shops in Vallejo. Waters and Brody were known to frequent coffee shops and Brody often believed that the waitresses were sexually/romantically interested in him. However, there has never been any evidence that Brody or Walters frequented the Vallejo area. (When Brody travelled to his banks in the East Bay, he usually travelled by the BART light-rail system, which does not go to Vallejo.)

* Darlene Ferrin did live for awhile one-half block away from where Brody lived on Sutter Street at the same time for a brief period. However, I have never found any evidence that she worked at any coffee shops in SF where the two Georges seemed to frequent.

* Murdered cabbie Paul Stine picked up the Zodiac on Geary Street about two blocks from the hotel that GB and GW lived. Brody does somewhat resemble the police sketch of the Zodiac (see attached pics below) but not the physical description. Brody is too small and too old. Waters was too tall and too thin.

* The Zodiac murders started about the same time as Waters and Annasmom seperated and Waters fell further under the spell of Brody. However, the murders started in December 1968, while the final seperation occured in early 1969.

[smile22]

This is something that was discussed on the original thread for Anna, but may not be known by most here, so I want to repeat this information:

This case has no known tie-in to the Zodiac case.

There are a few coincidences that created interest (listed and evaluated below):

* An early suspect in the case was named George Waters (this fact is prominently mentioned in the new Zodiac movie and is why I am posting this info). This GW was a bartender in Vallejo, not a doctor in San Francisco and is not the same man.

* It is believed by some that Zodiac victim Darlene Ferrin knew the Zodiac and that he had stalked her in her job as a waitress at various coffee shops in Vallejo. Waters and Brody were known to frequent coffee shops and Brody often believed that the waitresses were sexually/romantically interested in him. However, there has never been any evidence that Brody or Walters frequented the Vallejo area. (When Brody travelled to his banks in the East Bay, he usually travelled by the BART light-rail system, which does not go to Vallejo.)

* Darlene Ferrin did live for awhile one-half block away from where Brody lived on Sutter Street at the same time for a brief period. However, I have never found any evidence that she worked at any coffee shops in SF where the two Georges seemed to frequent.

* Murdered cabbie Paul Stine picked up the Zodiac on Geary Street about two blocks from the hotel that GB and GW lived. Brody does somewhat resemble the police sketch of the Zodiac (see attached pics below) but not the physical description. Brody is too small and too old. Waters was too tall and too thin.

* The Zodiac murders started about the same time as Waters and Annasmom seperated and Waters fell further under the spell of Brody. However, the murders started in December 1968, while the final seperation occured in early 1969.


i just noticed something and im not sure if it was brought up before but when i pulled up the picture that you had listed of gb and the zodiac i saw something on the gb picture it says under the picture Marguerite kilroy san fransisco is that a person gb knew or was that the name of the stuido he had the picture done at?
i was looking at some old photos of my mom when she was a about 4 or 5 in the late 50s and on the picture photo holder it listed the studio that the photo was taken at

[SherlockJr]

i just noticed something and im not sure if it was brought up before but when i pulled up the picture that you had listed of gb and the zodiac i saw something on the gb picture it says under the picture Marguerite kilroy san fransisco is that a person gb knew or was that the name of the stuido he had the picture done at?
i was looking at some old photos of my mom when she was a about 4 or 5 in the late 50s and on the picture photo holder it listed the studio that the photo was taken at
Smile, I looked thru California business listings a long time ago and found no photography studio registered with the state. Kyresearcher I believe found some Kilroy names that may be associated.

[Annasmom]

Smile, I looked thru California business listings a long time ago and found no photography studio registered with the state. Kyresearcher I believe found some Kilroy names that may be associated. It was a photography studio in San Francisco, now apparently defunct. I found a photo on e-Bay last year (not related to our search) credited to the same studio.

[Dr. Doogie]

Brody does somewhat resemble the police sketch of the Zodiac (see attached pics below) but not the physical description.It should be pointed out that the police sketch of the Zodiac also resembles George Burns (the late comedian).

[smile22]

how accurate is the sketch of the zodiac? it sounds like the zodiac resembles afew different people. i wonder if he has anything that is distingushing that would seperate him from other look alikes like something a witness remembered he did that might tie him to another case or something

[kyresearcher]

how accurate is the sketch of the zodiac? it sounds like the zodiac resembles afew different people. i wonder if he has anything that is distingushing that would seperate him from other look alikes like something a witness remembered he did that might tie him to another case or something Has anyone ever seen one of the letters that the zodiac sent to the LE? It might be interesting to compare his handwriting to GB's.

[Dr. Doogie]

Has anyone ever seen one of the letters that the zodiac sent to the LE? It might be interesting to compare his handwriting to GB's.
GB rarely wrote anything himself - he dictated his writings to Walters who wrote it down. I did find one handwritten note by Brody (written while Margaret Kukoda was still alive, so early-to-mid 1967) and as I recall, the handwriting does not match Z's style.

[smile22]

do u think the Z used someone else to write beacuse he didnt want to get cought?

[Dr. Doogie]

do u think the Z used someone else to write beacuse he didnt want to get cought?To Smile22:
I doubt it. The old Hell's Angel's saying of "Three people can keep a secret if two of them are dead" comes into play - the fewer people who know a secret, the easier it is to keep it.

To everyone in general:
I mentioned the Zodiac in my above posts because I was concerned that the mention of "George Waters" in the new movie would drag us off on a tangent of something that is undoubtably unrelated to Anna's case. Unfortunately, it seems to have had the opposite effect. People here obviously have the right to look into anything that they feel may be relevant, but I am absolutely convinced that the Zodiac has no relation to Anna's case. I believe that the time we spend looking into Z will only detract from our hard work that has brought us closer to discovering the truth about Anna's disappearance.

[Maggie97]

I have never posted here but this case has really intrigued me. I apologize if I am duplicating information or if the information is of no value - I haven't had the time to read all of the posts to see if this information is now moot.

I recently joined a newspaper archives site and found the following:

On 1/23/1953 a Margaret Kukoda, age 35, was arrested in Oakland, CA. She was a nurse.

On 9/11/1962 a George Brody, a member of the American Legion, was a pall bearer at a funeral in Lowell, Massachusetts.

On 8/3/1948 a George Brody is listed in Lowell, Massachusetts as working for the water company.

If anyone thinks there may be value to this I'm happy keep looking.

[Dr. Doogie]

I have never posted here but this case has really intrigued me. I apologize if I am duplicating information or if the information is of no value - I haven't had the time to read all of the posts to see if this information is now moot.
Welcome, Maggie97. We can always use the additional help.

On 1/23/1953 a Margaret Kukoda, age 35, was arrested in Oakland, CA. She was a nurse.
Margaret was arrested and plead no contest to performing two illegal abortions on teenage girls. She was given probation. The real question about this incident is whether we can establish any connection to George Brody during this time period. Did he post bail or appear as a witness at her trial, etc.?

On 9/11/1962 a George Brody, a member of the American Legion, was a pall bearer at a funeral in Lowell, Massachusetts.

On 8/3/1948 a George Brody is listed in Lowell, Massachusetts as working for the water company..
I believe that this Brody is the same one that we have found in an old high school yearbook - the picture shows that he is not Brody. Since we suspect that our Brody was from Massachusetts, it may be that this is the identity that he stole to become our Brody (we assume that "George Brody" is an alias).

If anyone thinks there may be value to this I'm happy keep looking.
Please do keep looking into this and anything else that you may find. Even if you bring up things that we have already discovered, it is gratifying to see that our previous research can be duplicated by independent sleuthers - it helps us verify our work. Thanks!

[Annasmom]

Things have been a little slow on the forum lately, so here's a poem for you:

HOME ON THE RANGE

Briefly, everybody loved and lost at the ranch.
It was that gemmy piece of turf which everybody owned or wanted.
We were married in a treehouse near the mill,
Suspended over the creek,
Singing “Home On the Range.” Four months later,
Helicopters were ripping the air
And frogmen were picking apart the creek bed,
Looking for our lost girl.
The landlord didn’t wear a top hat,
Probably didn’t look like a Dickens villain,
But that is how I remember him. Every month
He wanted more money, wanted to evict everyone,
Schemed to make rental units from pigpens.
Richard planted a fuchsia
Which enchanted hummingbirds.
They hung their nests from his ears
And made bracelets around his wrists
As he watered the bush.
When that singer took money made from music,
Bought the whole place, moved into Richard’s house,
He wondered what had become of the hummingbirds
And the magic fuchsia. Everybody knows her face,
So he recognized her on the street.
But when he asked about his birds, she turned her back
And walked away without a word.
So much for the muse and social justice.

[Dr. Doogie]

...When that singer took money made from music,
Bought the whole place, moved into Richard’s house,
He wondered what had become of the hummingbirds
And the magic fuchsia. Everybody knows her face,
So he recognized her on the street.
But when he asked about his birds, she turned her back
And walked away without a word.
So much for the muse and social justice...
Not to engage in TC bashing, but something dawns on me: Annasbro has probably been on more records sold in the last ten years than TC. And he doesn't have to worry about the "masses" invading his privacy or stalking him - well, maybe one or two of his old high school girlfriends... :laugh:

[SherlockJr]

What a lovely poem, Annasmom!

[Dr. Doogie]

Yay! We are back up on the forum.

There is nothing new to report concerning LE's investigation into "C". We continue to wait for an update.

Meanwhile, there are rumblings of perhaps something new developing unrelated to "C". I am still trying to uncover what is happening and will update when I can. However, it may be nothing more than my imagination.

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

Yay! We are back up on the forum.

There is nothing new to report concerning LE's investigation into "C". We continue to wait for an update.

Meanwhile, there are rumblings of perhaps something new developing unrelated to "C". I am still trying to uncover what is happening and will update when I can. However, it may be nothing more than my imagination.


What I find so sad is that we'll know by the end of the week who's the baby-daddy of Anna Nichole Smith's daughter, but it takes months for Annasmom to find out if "C" is her daughter. Personally I find it hard to keep researching different angles with the results of "C" up in the air.

I'm dieing to know what the new developments are. Let us know asap...PLEASE :rolleyes:

[Dr. Doogie]

I'm dieing to know what the new developments are. Let us know asap...PLEASE :rolleyes:

Me too, actually. I may be over-analysizing an innocent statement by someone (which is a distinct possibility), but it appeared that there is something happening out there that we are not aware of. I am trying to nail it down (one way or the other), so I probably shouldn't have mentioned it at all, but I just get too d*mn excited...

[Jodibug]

Me too, actually. I may be over-analysizing an innocent statement by someone (which is a distinct possibility), but it appeared that there is something happening out there that we are not aware of. I am trying to nail it down (one way or the other), so I probably shouldn't have mentioned it at all, but I just get too d*mn excited...

Arrrgggghhhh Doogie, you're driving us nuts with anticipation!!!

:slap:


But I do hope you are having a good day!

[SherlockJr]

I spent my Saturday reading the Rose Cole threads. I want to bring a section of that to Anna's thread. A former Synanon member was able to get membership at Websleuths to help answer questions concerning the Synanon. Last year they inqired if they knew the girl pictured, they posted a pic of Anna. This was her response:

That was a young girl born in synanon. These questions are not about the Cole girl in question so not comfortable in answering. We try and protect the privacy of those who lived there at an earlier time. I hope you understand. (however, if I understand her story, she testified against the organization on child abuse issues)

A few days later she was asked again about this picture. This time they had both Anna's pic and the girl getting her hair dryed.

Lots of little girls with blonde hair look the same. That little girl has a diffferent first and last name. My mom knows her parents. They married in Synanonn and had this child in 73, born on the Synanon property. Not the same person as you are looking for. Can't see how that is possible based on what you are telling me. I'm trying to honnor protection of people;s names of former synanon members so wil not divulge information but this can't possibly be the same people.

First of all, the picture of the two girls is dated 1974. I would believe that time frame finding a marriage record on the teenager in 1975.

If this member above is telling us this girl was born in 1973, she is way off. That is not a one year old standing there getting her hair dryed.

From e-mails I've received last year from Synanon members, they gave me the name of the younger girl. Again the name they gave me matches the name on her overalls, but this child was born in 1971. To me the child in the picture still looks older than 3 years old.

Do we want to look further into this girl?

http://s13.photobucket.com/albums/a273/shadow205/th_Croppedlittlegirl.jpg (http://s13.photobucket.com/albums/a273/shadow205/?action=view&current=Croppedlittlegirl.jpg)

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

SherlockJr

I questioned the honesty of that particular poster as well (on the Rose thread). She kept saying she had to protect the privacy of other members, and couldn't/wouldn't give names...but when she posted her "biography", she used first and last names of several members. I always thought that was odd. And yes, as you said the dates appear to be way off in comparison of the age the child looks.

[Dr. Doogie]

I agree that something is amiss concerning the dates in her story. Either the photo is not from 1974 or this is not the girl that she is identifying.

[Cubby]

I can't find the original larger picture of above. My guess is the child looks about 5. I have a tall (46" 48lb ) 4 yr old, so my comparison is based on my sons stats. He's in the 95th -100th on both ht and wt. Where was Anna on the stats? It might be easier to compare that way.

I think the girl in the picture should be explored further.

Also, I wasn't sure where to post this so I guess here is as good as any. I've tried to compare Annas ears with those pictured. My late great Aunt told me long before DNA was available, ears were often used for comparison. For example, my son and his father both have attached earlobes. Which is less common than detached. Not sure if that's possible, but it might help eliminate or confirm someone before going further.

Also, the pic of "C". Her lips appear to be full. Were Anna's lips full? I was unable to tell from the pics available.

Praying for an answer to this mystery.

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

Sherlock, or anyone:

Do you remember where that picture originated from? (of the older girl blow drying the younger girls hair) you said it was dated 1974. (link below) Was it on the synanon sight? I have to question that date simply by the blow dryer the girl is using. The pistol style hand held blow dryer wasn't even made until 1971, and it took many years for it to be affordable for "home" use. Hair salons used them long before the general public. Even then, most where white/putty. I don't think we got one like in the picture until at least 1979-80. The flat, rectangular style with a handle where really most popular in the early to mid 70s. I also question the jeans the older girl has on, they appear to have strips in them, and that fad didn't really hit until the late 70's I believe. (if you enlarge the picture you'll see what I mean.) Lastly, I wonder when Johnson baby powder started coming in plastic containers, There is what appears to be a plastic container of it on the shelf. I've looked around on collector sights and can't find a time line, I can remember the metal containers as a kid, (and I'm not ancient yet...LOL) The bandanna in the hair thing was pretty popular even in the late 70's...right before the guys started tying them around their legs.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a273/shadow205/Museum_01110.jpg

anythoughts?

[Cubby]

Sherlock, or anyone:

Do you remember where that picture originated from? (of the older girl blow drying the younger girls hair) you said it was dated 1974. (link below) Was it on the synanon sight? I have to question that date simply by the blow dryer the girl is using. The pistol style hand held blow dryer wasn't even made until 1971, and it took many years for it to be affordable for "home" use. Hair salons used them long before the general public. Even then, most where white/putty. I don't think we got one like in the picture until at least 1979-80. The flat, rectangular style with a handle where really most popular in the early to mid 70s. I also question the jeans the older girl has on, they appear to have strips in them, and that fad didn't really hit until the late 70's I believe. (if you enlarge the picture you'll see what I mean.) Lastly, I wonder when Johnson baby powder started coming in plastic containers, There is what appears to be a plastic container of it on the shelf. I've looked around on collector sights and can't find a time line, I can remember the metal containers as a kid, (and I'm not ancient yet...LOL) The bandanna in the hair thing was pretty popular even in the late 70's...right before the guys started tying them around their legs.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a273/shadow205/Museum_01110.jpg

anythoughts?

Some good questions. I don't recall metal baby powder, but do remember metal tins for bandaids. Your post brought these questions to mind. The shoes? The little girls gym shoes with the rubber toes. What year was that style? .I recall that being earlier to mid 70's. also the year of the older girls shoes reminds me of shoes my parents wore before they dv'd in 77 or so. I don't see stripes in the older girls jeans. Those were still kind of flaired, or rather boot cut. My recollection only goes from elephant to straight leg. I'm going to guess the pic is earlier than late 70's based on the Farrah/Feathered hair style back then. I think the older girl would have some form of feathers. Also, Annasmom would best remember what Anna resembled with wet hair.

The names on the boxes are difficult to make out. If someone can make them out, a year might be better pinpointed based on the popularity of childrens names for a particular year. Popular names by year are easy to search.


just more talking outloud.

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

Some good questions. I don't recall metal baby powder, but do remember metal tins for bandaids. Your post brought these questions to mind. The shoes? The little girls gym shoes with the rubber toes. What year was that style? .I recall that being earlier to mid 70's. also the year of the older girls shoes reminds me of shoes my parents wore before they dv'd in 77 or so. I don't see stripes in the older girls jeans. Those were still kind of flaired, or rather boot cut. My recollection only goes from elephant to straight leg. I'm going to guess the pic is earlier than late 70's based on the Farrah/Feathered hair style back then. I think the older girl would have some form of feathers. Also, Annasmom would best remember what Anna resembled with wet hair.

The names on the boxes are difficult to make out. If someone can make them out, a year might be better pinpointed based on the popularity of childrens names for a particular year. Popular names by year are easy to search.


just more talking outloud.

Not sure about the shoes. I was born in 65 and remember having some similar...though I also remember buying some similar for my child a few years ago.

I have a huge computer screen and I enlarged the picture to 150% and it really did look like those pin strip jeans, though maybe it was just pixelated weirdly on my end. The Blow dryer is really what seems weird to me.

Sherlock said that others told her the little girl was named the name on her overalls, I can't really make it out but it ENDS in a Y for sure, may be Emily. None of the boxes visible have a name with a Y at the end, though one box is clearly marked Christian which was Anna's middle name. It appears to be empty, maybe because she holding the contents in her hands?? The box that is sticking out a bit, might be hers, (Or the girls who owns the hairdryer) but is clearly not the same name as printed on the overalls. Also, You would think they would have separate bathrooms for boys and girls. The name Christian is typically a boys name, I found that interesting.

[Annasmom]

I can't find the original larger picture of above. My guess is the child looks about 5. I have a tall (46" 48lb ) 4 yr old, so my comparison is based on my sons stats. He's in the 95th -100th on both ht and wt. Where was Anna on the stats? It might be easier to compare that way.

I think the girl in the picture should be explored further.

Also, I wasn't sure where to post this so I guess here is as good as any. I've tried to compare Annas ears with those pictured. My late great Aunt told me long before DNA was available, ears were often used for comparison. For example, my son and his father both have attached earlobes. Which is less common than detached. Not sure if that's possible, but it might help eliminate or confirm someone before going further.

Also, the pic of "C". Her lips appear to be full. Were Anna's lips full? I was unable to tell from the pics available.

Praying for an answer to this mystery.

The little girl's ears look very much like Anna's ears. Anna was exactly average as far as growth went. "Full" lips--well, that's hard to define, but I suppose they were. And I had a pair of striped denim overalls in 1972, so we can't date the picture according to when those were in style. I'm glad you're looking at this picture again. It would really help if we had someone from Synanon who would be more forthcoming.

[Dr. Doogie]

It would really help if we had someone from Synanon who would be more forthcoming.

I received an email from a member here who located a woman who was a girl in Synanon during the period in question. I will try to contact this woman and see if perhaps she can shed some light.

[SherlockJr]

LOL, I never dreamed I would be looking up the history of a blow dryer, but here goes....

http://www.bergen.org/AAST/Projects/Engineering_Graphics/_EG2000/hairdryer/1960-1969.html

[Julessleuther]

Hi all! I have lurked here for a long while, but really want to start helping! I do have some experience in "sleuthing" as I have successfully located three natural siblings, and my natural parents (one of whom I did not want to find) that I was separated from when I was 5. Three, including myself, were adopted into other families in Utah and Pennsylvania. (A real long, long story, and I still have some "sleuthing" of my own that I may need help with someday, but for now I would like to help others.)

Anyway, I analyzed the picture of the girl from synanon. I used a whole bunch of photo filters on it, and this is what I see:

The name on the little girl's overalls may be Emily or Emmy, but I am actually leaning more toward the word family. If you notice that first letter, it really looks like an f with an a right next to it.

Some of the names on the totes under the bench are: Christian, Danielle, and the one by the girls foot looks like Effie's or Affies's. The one on the very left only has the A N D O, but perhaps was Fernando? The box next to Christian I just cannot make out but looks like it starts with a fancy T or a J.

As a reference, I looked very much like Anna when I was her age (no, I know I am not her, I was fostered in 1970). I had very blond hair, and very brown eyes. As I aged, my hair grew in darker, and my eyes are more of a hazel. I went from being very blond at age 4-5 to being darker haired by 7. My older natural sister was a towhead, and by age 7 had reddish brown hair. My point is that if this photo was taken in 1974-75, Anna's hair could have started to grow in darker.

[Cubby]

LOL, I never dreamed I would be looking up the history of a blow dryer, but here goes....

http://www.bergen.org/AAST/Projects/Engineering_Graphics/_EG2000/hairdryer/1960-1969.html


I found another:
http://tinyurl.com/3ct4yj

[Cubby]

Hi all! I have lurked here for a long while, but really want to start helping! I do have some experience in "sleuthing" as I have successfully located three natural siblings, and my natural parents (one of whom I did not want to find) that I was separated from when I was 5. Three, including myself, were adopted into other families in Utah and Pennsylvania. (A real long, long story, and I still have some "sleuthing" of my own that I may need help with someday, but for now I would like to help others.)

Anyway, I analyzed the picture of the girl from synanon. I used a whole bunch of photo filters on it, and this is what I see:

The name on the little girl's overalls may be Emily or Emmy, but I am actually leaning more toward the word family. If you notice that first letter, it really looks like an f with an a right next to it.

Some of the names on the totes under the bench are: Christian, Danielle, and the one by the girls foot looks like Effie's or Affies's. The one on the very left only has the A N D O, but perhaps was Fernando? The box next to Christian I just cannot make out but looks like it starts with a fancy T or a J.

As a reference, I looked very much like Anna when I was her age (no, I know I am not her, I was fostered in 1970). I had very blond hair, and very brown eyes. As I aged, my hair grew in darker, and my eyes are more of a hazel. I went from being very blond at age 4-5 to being darker haired by 7. My older natural sister was a towhead, and by age 7 had reddish brown hair. My point is that if this photo was taken in 1974-75, Anna's hair could have started to grow in darker.

I don't know how to multiple quote, so I'll respond all in one to the last few posts.


I don't have any photo filters, but I thought the name looked most like Emmy. I can see where you might find the "fa" in family, I thought "To" in tommy first. Looking again, I thought that first letter might be distorted as a result of a faded crease mark about 2/3rd's the way down the lettering.

I also wonder if the garment was hand made? Was synanon known for that? The apples on the pocket and belt area look hand stitched. The sew on patches were popular during that era. Was there a particular mfg such as sears that might have sold a line of childrens clothing with that style apples to help date the picture? - If we can't find more info from a former member of Synanon. Hopefully we can.....

I spent some time looking at the photo trying to find something that might stick out. Two things stood out. 1) The lower child sized sink. - I'm not sure if a "standard" exists for the counter hts for children but that might help determine a possible age for the child in the photo. And the age of the older girl. 2) It might be me, and my recollection of older appliances with thinner electrical cords, but the cord in the photo appears to be as large as current hair dryers. UL/electrical codes vary by state and CA may have required those safety measures sooner......

My best guess on the names on the boxes from the left:

1) ANDO, ainda, arnda, Linda? Fernando makes sense. Linda seems unlikely as it appears the name would have been too far to the right.
2)Christian
3)Tina, Jane or June
4)Joyous
5)Danielle, Nashelle or Mashelle- as a variant of Michelle.

The picture originated from the synanon.org site. I didn't reach much, but saw that quite a few former members wrote books. They are possible contacts. There were over 20,000 members over time, and the former members who signed the guest book available to visitors ( as opposed to the private area designated for former members only ) seemed to think the place was the best thing since sliced bread.

Is there a list of members somewhere no one has found?

Doogie - you mentioned you had previous contact from a former member who you, and others believed was not forthcoming. Was there more than one contact, and I'm new to this, but would gladly help given a little direction. Maybe contacting some of the authors mentioned at the site? or has that avenue been exhausted.

Annasmom - By full lips, I was thinking about the recent trend a few years ago. "C"s lips looked naturally full and similar to that trend. My apologies for not doing my homework and bringing up the ear comparison. I see it's been discussed in detail previously.

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

LOL, I never dreamed I would be looking up the history of a blow dryer, but here goes....

http://www.bergen.org/AAST/Projects/Engineering_Graphics/_EG2000/hairdryer/1960-1969.html


:waitasec: LOL! me too. I spent about 2 hours yesterday searching for that exact hairdryer. My brother called and asks me what I was up to and I tell him, "researching the history of the blow dryer". He's like..."WHAT in the h*ll are you doing that for???" LOL

In my humble opinion, that dryer looks like a con-air pro-style. I'm thinking it's a 78' model, but I have been wrong many times before.

[Rhett]

I looked at the picture but I don't have any photo filters or anything. I agree that the overalls on the little girl look they say Emily or Emmy. I do not see enough room for family based on the spacing above the pocket. As to the older girls jeans, I think they look stone washed or perhaps they are dark colored jeans (like black) and they are worn looking. I think the hairdryer is metal with silver metal pieces on it. As to the dryer cord I don't know. Since they were into recycling clothing, etc. maybe the cord had been replaced. My husband does this sometimes to keep from buying something new like hairdryer, iron, fans, etc. I want someone who can really zoom in to look at the outlet where the dryer is plugged into the wall. Can you make out anything about it? Also, on the shelf in the top of the picture is something written on a label or something on that shelf. Can anyone read that or is it too small?

[SherlockJr]

I see what you are describing with the label on the shelf, but it's too small for my eyes to read. The name I was told was Emily. I was also told that Christian is a boy, and was given his last name. The teenager married in 1975 and she was born somewhere around 1957.

[Dr. Doogie]

...Some of the names on the totes under the bench are: Christian, Danielle, and the one by the girls foot looks like Effie's or Affies's.

WWWWHHHAAATTT???? I'd better take a closer look at that!

BTW, welcome Julessleuther. We can always use the extra help here.

[Dr. Doogie]

As a reference, I looked very much like Anna when I was her age (no, I know I am not her, I was fostered in 1970). I had very blond hair, and very brown eyes. As I aged, my hair grew in darker, and my eyes are more of a hazel. I went from being very blond at age 4-5 to being darker haired by 7. My older natural sister was a towhead, and by age 7 had reddish brown hair. My point is that if this photo was taken in 1974-75, Anna's hair could have started to grow in darker.

Funny that you mentioned that you are not her - I have become so attuned to sniff out all possibilities that the thought had crossed my mind (we have oftened wondered/fantasised that Anna may be visiting this site ala Shawn Hornbeck). I even went so far as to take a very short look into another Anna who was thirty-nine years old, blond with a mole on the face who has been in the news recently - I'll let you all connect the dots on that one. LOL :doh:

[Dr. Doogie]

Doogie - you mentioned you had previous contact from a former member who you, and others believed was not forthcoming. Was there more than one contact, and I'm new to this, but would gladly help given a little direction. Maybe contacting some of the authors mentioned at the site? or has that avenue been exhausted.

I do not know if the person who stated that this girl was not Anna and identified her as a different girl was being forthright or not, but I do not have any reason to disbelieve him at this point. He could be 100% correct, mistaken or deceitful. That is why us taking a second look at this is a good idea.

I have purposely been laying low on this discussion because I really want to see what you sleuthers can discover (absent any preconceptions or prejudices that I may have that could slant the investigation one way or another). The Synanon angle is as worthy of investigation as any other hypothesises that we have had and I want to make sure it gets the hard look that it deserves. Thanks to everyone for the ongoing great effort!

[SherlockJr]

Also, I wasn't sure where to post this so I guess here is as good as any. I've tried to compare Annas ears with those pictured. My late great Aunt told me long before DNA was available, ears were often used for comparison. For example, my son and his father both have attached earlobes. Which is less common than detached. Not sure if that's possible, but it might help eliminate or confirm someone before going further

Something else I picked out of Rose Cole's thread. This was written by the CA investigator who works on 1979 Jane Doe.

The smallest things that are typically overlooked can be the biggest things in an investigation like this. Something as small as an ear lobe (lobule) can just about rule in or out a potential match.

How?

Well, is it pierced, is the lobule fused or detatched - which is a known herditary trait - do the brothers, sisters or parents have the same characteristi? - There's a guy in Canada (Don't quote me on location) that has been conducting a study for decades on human "ear-prints." His conclusion was that ear-print is just as much a one-of-kind as a fingerprint. He's even introduced these findings in court for ear-prints left behind by burgalars who placed their ear / face up to glass to peer into their mark.

So that said, if jane or john doe has an obvious fused or free lobule and your missing person is the opposite - it's a pretty fair rule out.

Eye color is difficult - as there are factors that can effect what you see at a post-mortem examination; decomposition, excessive heat, fire, dependant lividity can really make it difficult as well because the eye becomes so conjested and tardeau spots start to appear.

Jane Doe (CA 1979) was known to be alive the night before - can't reveal why - but I can say that the side of her face that was intact was preserved enough that a false eye-color was not an issue.

Another thing I've noted over the years while dealing with Cold Case Files (I've solved four and during my tour have had only one active Doe case go unidentified - Jane Doe / Castro Valley, CA) is that much older cases seem to have a lot of "Approximation" in the height and weight department. I don't believe that the facility where Jane Doe (CA 1979) had her autopsy in 1979 had a scale big enough to measure a human on a gurney. That said - don't let height and weight send you off a trail too soon. Forensic Science is amazing, but science & the theories behind it are only as good as the humans who derived and dreamed them up - and we, humans, are all capable of being wrong. Case in point: Hawkins & his Black Hole theory were written in stone for the longest time - but now it's pretty much been debunked.

With that being said, what are your opinions on these ears?

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

The actual shape of the ears look similar, but if you notice where they fall, it's pretty different. In the 2 Brody Pic's the bottom of his ear lobes seem to be in line with his upper lip. The guy in the middle with the hat, ear lobes are more even with his nose. They set higher on his face. IMHO

[Cubby]

I do not know if the person who stated that this girl was not Anna and identified her as a different girl was being forthright or not, but I do not have any reason to disbelieve him at this point. He could be 100% correct, mistaken or deceitful. That is why us taking a second look at this is a good idea.

I have purposely been laying low on this discussion because I really want to see what you sleuthers can discover (absent any preconceptions or prejudices that I may have that could slant the investigation one way or another). The Synanon angle is as worthy of investigation as any other hypothesises that we have had and I want to make sure it gets the hard look that it deserves. Thanks to everyone for the ongoing great effort!

Maybe "forthcoming" was a poor choice for a word. The poster who provided this information indicated the child was born in 73. The picture is dated "about 74" and the caption under that photo on another site indicated something about "getting the hair blow dried before the shave", but the info I've found indicates the shaved heads began in 75. Which would put Anna at 7 or 8 if in fact the caption is correct and the correct photo date coinciding with the shaved heads is 75. I have a hard time placing an age of 7 or 8 on the girl in the photo. I did find a link with pictures for sale of the shaved heads. I didn't see any children or teenagers, only adults. Which leads me to wonder if the female teens and children were also included in the head shaving.......

My thoughts are to first try to pinpoint a date for the picture/event and proceed from there.

[SherlockJr]

The actual shape of the ears look similar, but if you notice where they fall, it's pretty different. In the 2 Brody Pic's the bottom of his ear lobes seem to be in line with his upper lip. The guy in the middle with the hat, ear lobes are more even with his nose. They set higher on his face. IMHO


I just got done standing in front of the mirror as I was finishing getting ready for work. If I tilted my head downward about 1", my ears match up to my nose. I think it's the angle of the camera or the face.

[Cubby]

The ears look different to me. The cartilage along the inside of Brody's right ( his right )ear is flatter than that of the baseball player. The cartilage forming the outside shape ( from the top near his head curving down) of Brody's ear doesn't form as much of a closed circle as much as it is I see on the baseball player. Brody just seems to have less pronounced cartilage in both those area's. Also the lobe area - bottom - where a single piercing would be looks to indent kind of like a spoon shape on Brody. I hope that makes sense. I don't know what those parts are called.

[JanetElaine]

With that being said, what are your opinions on these ears?

When you posted them before, I said I think the left inner (part of the) ear looks different. I would like to expand on that now... I think the ears in 1 and 2 don't look the same. It's hard to describe exactly how, I'd rather get a red pencil, KWIM? ;)
Picture 3 is just too unclear to tell... although at first glance the right ear seems similar to the one in pic 2, but it's just too unclear to be certain.
Are any of these known to be of the same person? PM me if you don't want to 'taint' any other people. :)

[Dr. Doogie]

...Are any of these known to be of the same person? PM me if you don't want to 'taint' any other people. :)

The pictures on the left and right are of George Brody, the self-styled guru/mentor of Anna's birthfather. The baseball player in the middle is a possible candidate for who Brody was before he became Brody (We strongly suspect that Brody was an alias and that Brody had some sort of history under a different name).

Our speculations about Brody have run the entire spectrum of possibilities: he was a boxer, a lawyer, a baseball player, and even a woman who was dressing as a man. Ultimately, he was con-artist who, so far, has eluded our search for the truth about him.

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

Funny that you mentioned that you are not her - I have become so attuned to sniff out all possibilities that the thought had crossed my mind (we have oftened wondered/fantasised that Anna may be visiting this site ala Shawn Hornbeck). I even went so far as to take a very short look into another Anna who was thirty-nine years old, blond with a mole on the face who has been in the news recently - I'll let you all connect the dots on that one. LOL :doh:
:innocent: That's hilarious...I even went so far about a month ago as to write a letter to tmz.com and asked them to dig up some pictures of ANS when she was 5 yrs old...LOL (It is strange they never show any baby pictures of her!) When other celebs die they usually have a couple thrown into the mix of things!

[Shadow205]

Well since we are studing/comparing ears, lets get the other set of "possible ear's: up here.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a273/shadow205/wolgast_bobby_ring192404.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a273/shadow205/Brody.jpg

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

Well since we are studing/comparing ears, lets get the other set of "possible ear's: up here.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a273/shadow205/wolgast_bobby_ring192404.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a273/shadow205/Brody.jpg

The ears look similar here too, but the NOSE looks dead on

[Dr. Doogie]

The ears look similar here too, but the NOSE looks dead on

The nose is definitely a match, as are the ears IMO. The only thing that doesn't seem to match is the lips (the boxer's are much fuller than the picture of "younger Brody"). Anybody want to add a pair of horn-rimmed glasses to the boxer's pic for comparison?

[JanetElaine]

Well since we are studing/comparing ears, lets get the other set of "possible ear's: up here.



Wow. That's 'earie'. :D

Seriously though. The shape of ears, nose, distance between nose and mouth, distance between eyes plus how they're set, height of bridge of nose, neck/head 'wideness', jaw/chin line, high forehead, shape of the face... Mouth seems different width, but other than that.... dang.

[JanetElaine]

The pictures on the left and right are of George Brody, the self-styled guru/mentor of Anna's birthfather. The baseball player in the middle is a possible candidate for who Brody was before he became Brody (We strongly suspect that Brody was an alias and that Brody had some sort of history under a different name).

Our speculations about Brody have run the entire spectrum of possibilities: he was a boxer, a lawyer, a baseball player, and even a woman who was dressing as a man. Ultimately, he was con-artist who, so far, has eluded our search for the truth about him.

Thanks, Dr. Doogie.

[Dr. Doogie]

...The shape of ears, nose, distance between nose and mouth, distance between eyes plus how they're set, height of bridge of nose, neck/head 'wideness', jaw/chin line, high forehead, shape of the face... Mouth seems different width, but other than that.... dang.

If this boxer was Brody, one possible explaination for the difference in the mouth is that Brody evidently had "ill-fitting" dentures.

However, our research into this boxer (Bobby Wolgast) seemed to dead-end when we discovered that he had continued to live in Philly until his death (at a date later than Brody's death).

[JanetElaine]

I know this is probably way out there, but maybe Bobby Wolgast had a twin? I almost feel stupid even putting this out here... but yanno. I'm just trying to help a little. :o

[Dr. Doogie]

The reason that we had focused on Bobby Wolgast is because:

*Brody had claimed that he was a boxer.
*Margaret Kukoda had called Brody "Bobby".
*In the words of Annasmom, Wolgast was a "dead-ringer" for Brody.

We did discover a couple of other Wolgasts fighting about the same time, but I do not recall any internet notations that they were related to Bobby. Since Wolgast was an alias (I do not recall the real name, but it was a very common Italian name), I remember that several boxers had adopted the Wolgast last name in honor of a champion named "Midget Wolgast".

[Annasmom]

Does anyone know anything about handwriting? If so, look at the Fs and Gs in George Brody's writing on the photograph. They don't really look like the way a native English-writer would make them, at least to me. Any ideas?

[Cubby]

Does anyone know anything about handwriting? If so, look at the Fs and Gs in George Brody's writing on the photograph. They don't really look like the way a native English-writer would make them, at least to me. Any ideas?

The only non native English writing I would be familiar with would be within the last 20 years or so. I've read more about the differences in penmanship based on time periods. Did he have an accent which might lead you to believe he was not born in the states?

[Gina_M]

I see what you are describing with the label on the shelf, but it's too small for my eyes to read. The name I was told was Emily. I was also told that Christian is a boy, and was given his last name. The teenager married in 1975 and she was born somewhere around 1957.

Regarding the name Emily...reminds me of one of Annasmom's journal entries in "Searching for Anna" -

July 11, 1973

I dreamed of Anna last night: That Joe called me and she was snuggled in bed with him. I asked her where she’d been (she was wearing a print blouse and a blue denim jumper) and she said "I don’t know." I asked her if there was anyone there with her and she said, "Yes, Emily."

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

Regarding the name Emily...reminds me of one of Annasmom's journal entries in "Searching for Anna" -

July 11, 1973

I dreamed of Anna last night: That Joe called me and she was snuggled in bed with him. I asked her where she’d been (she was wearing a print blouse and a blue denim jumper) and she said "I don’t know." I asked her if there was anyone there with her and she said, "Yes, Emily."



Wow, isn't that weird.

[InterestedNHelping]

Dr. Doogie (or anyone else) On the subject of Brody or Kukoda, I thought of an idea, and wondered if you had researched it already. As I am looking through databases of missing persons, specifically from CA, (as I am searching for someone else unrelated to Anna's case) I noticed that there are very old pictures of people missing from a long time ago. Could it be possible that in some other states, someone could be looking for what happened to 'Brody' under a different name? Possibly you or Annasmom might recognize a face? Just a thought, as I was searching, I started to look into the idea that Brody might be listed missing as someone else, in an old black and white photo...no luck yet, but thought you might consider the idea.

[Annasmom]

Dr. Doogie (or anyone else) On the subject of Brody or Kukoda, I thought of an idea, and wondered if you had researched it already. As I am looking through databases of missing persons, specifically from CA, (as I am searching for someone else unrelated to Anna's case) I noticed that there are very old pictures of people missing from a long time ago. Could it be possible that in some other states, someone could be looking for what happened to 'Brody' under a different name? Possibly you or Annasmom might recognize a face? Just a thought, as I was searching, I started to look into the idea that Brody might be listed missing as someone else, in an old black and white photo...no luck yet, but thought you might consider the idea. Good idea. How many faces are we talking about, and do you have a link? Regarding the "Emily" dream, it gets even stranger if you consider the other dream mentioned in the journal around that time, that someone had just washed Anna's hair and she asked me "Why did you fire me?" (How's that for a heart-wringer?)

[Dr. Doogie]

Okay, so now I am getting the heeby-jeebies (a technical term) :eek: : in one dream, Anna just had her hair washed, and in another dream, she says that she is with "Emily". And we have a picture of someone with "Emily" stitched on denim overalls (jumper?) who just had her hair washed. Paging Art Bell...

[Cubby]

Okay, so now I am getting the heeby-jeebies (a technical term) :eek: : in one dream, Anna just had her hair washed, and in another dream, she says that she is with "Emily". And we have a picture of someone with "Emily" stitched on denim overalls (jumper?) who just had her hair washed. Paging Art Bell...

Overalls... weren't jumpers one pc and sleeveless? Doogie, is it ok for me to call you that?, you crack me up.

More questions.
1) has anyone near UCLA looked into the umpteen boxes available from synanon? since the picture in question is under "school: I might start with that box..... if I were near LA. I noticed n

2) I don't recall reading this previously, as I usually spent hours at a time trying to educate myself prior to posting, what information has been researched via Margaret? Is/was her military information availble giving any other family members? Was that her real name or a possible alias too?
Is it possible any of her family members might have info on GB?

I have many more, but I'll leave it at this, aside from saying, I'm still convinced "C" is Anna. Before I registered, I saw her pic and literally jumped off my chair. The only thing that confuses me is "C"'s hair, like many of us adult woman appears to be colored. I think seeing her natural color would indicate more of a confirmation, along with a picture of her ears. If she would provide that.......... and of course, there is a pic available with Anna's ears.

I look forward to the day, I wake up and find the post Anna has been found. I have no doubt it will happen.

[Dr. Doogie]

Overalls... weren't jumpers one pc and sleeveless?

Okay, so my fashion-sense is not what it ought to be - I will be starring in a new TV show called "Straight Eye for the Queer Guy" where I teach sensitive guys how to decorate their homes with Pamela Anderson posters, dead animal heads and empty beer cans.

I looked it up and jumpers are sleeveless long dresses. I never wore one so how would I know?

Doogie, is it ok for me to call you that? My parole officer does, why not you?

But in all seriousness...

1) has anyone near UCLA looked into the umpteen boxes available from synanon? since the picture in question is under "school: I might start with that box..... if I were near LA.

Not to my knowledge. There may be someone on the Rose Cole thread may have looked, but they wouldn't necessarily been looking for info about Anna.

2)... what information has been researched via Margaret? Is/was her military information availble giving any other family members? Was that her real name or a possible alias too?
Is it possible any of her family members might have info on GB?

I suspect that Margaret Kukoda is her real name - it was the name that she faced legal charges under in the early 1950's which also referenced her military career. I would assume that any identity theft would have been uncovered at that time. However, we have found another Margaret Kukoda in PA that may have been the source of the original identity...if it was an alias.

We are continuing to research any possible connection between the Kukoda family and Brody.

[Shadow205]

1) has anyone near UCLA looked into the umpteen boxes available from synanon? since the picture in question is under "school: I might start with that box..... if I were near LA. I noticed n

GinaM has volunteered to do this research. She said she has been very busy but will get to it soon. Maybe someone should put together a list of things for her to look for when she goes. You're right Doogie, it was over in the Rose thread. Someof the details/information in these 2 threads are starting to run together in my mind:waitasec:

[Julessleuther]

After April 14th I may be able to help Gina--I live in S. Cal too.

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

I found a different pic of Georgiann Brady. (I realize that Annasmom didn't think she looked like Anna, and she should know better than anyone), but this pose with a smile, looks even more like Anna to me. Could you all compare these and give me your thoughts. Also, Where exactly was Anna's mole? I think I read it was on her cheek bone just under her right eye, but how far down? Was it big, little, a bump? I can't see it in any of her pictures.

In one of the pics of Georgiann there appears to be a light colored bump under her right eye.

Anna
http://s177.photobucket.com/albums/w204/iNTERESTEDWOMAN/?action=view&current=Making-a-face-1972.jpg

Georgiann Brady no smile (Possible mole just under her right eye)
http://s177.photobucket.com/albums/w204/iNTERESTEDWOMAN/?action=view&current=71_1.jpg

Anna
http://s177.photobucket.com/albums/w204/iNTERESTEDWOMAN/?action=view&current=Last-photo-1-73-adjusted.jpg

Georgiann Brady w/smile, shows thin arms
http://s177.photobucket.com/albums/w204/iNTERESTEDWOMAN/?action=view&current=georgiann.jpg

If you've down loaded the new explorer magnify to 150%

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

It's also interesting to add that Georgiann's mother's name is Michaeleen. Just 2 additional letters of Annas Mom, and her little sister who is less than a year younger name is Michele MARGARET Brady. Before Peoples Temple, Michaeleen was a hairdresser & PT preschool teacher. From searching birth records it also appears she might have has another child in 1964 named Elizabeth, who also died on the same day. When I have more time, I'll write down everything I've uncovered about this family.

[Dr. Doogie]

...and her little sister who is less than a year younger name is Michele MARGARET Brady...

A year less than Georgianna? Is there a picture of Michele?

[MagicRose99]

A year less than Georgianna? Is there a picture of Michele?

I believe this is the site she's looking at: http://jonestown.sdsu.edu/

Click on the "About Jonestown" tab on the left and you get pics...

[Annasmom]

I found a different pic of Georgiann Brady. (I realize that Annasmom didn't think she looked like Anna, and she should know better than anyone), but this pose with a smile, looks even more like Anna to me. Could you all compare these and give me your thoughts. Also, Where exactly was Anna's mole? I think I read it was on her cheek bone just under her right eye, but how far down? Was it big, little, a bump? I can't see it in any of her pictures. In one of the pics of Georgiann there appears to be a light colored bump under her right eye.

Somewhere on the forum I posted age-advanced pictures of Anna which I had worked on to show where the mole was. It was a small dark mole on her right cheekbone, just below the eye. Of course, moles change with time, and there is no way of knowing how this one might have looked as years passed. However, even with black-and-white pictures, Georgiann's eyes seem to be pale, and I would guess they were blue instead of brown, as Anna's eyes were. I can't tell you exactly why I don't think she resembles Anna; something to do with the shape of her face. By the same token, both Annasbro and I got an immediate reaction to the photograph of C, who very strongly resembles Anna and others in our family. The coincidence of names is very odd, however, just the sort of thing George and George might have dreamed up.
Thank you, Interested, for the time and thought you are spending on this case. It is this sort of concern and energy which is going to give us some answers.

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

<snip> By the same token, both Annasbro and I got an immediate reaction to the photograph of C, who very strongly resembles Anna and others in our family. <snip>

I remember reading on the "C" thread that she has no baby pictures of her self less than 5 yrs old. Does she have any at 6,7 or 8 yrs etc...? School pictures, or year book pics? It would be great to see her 1st or 2nd grade school picture and see what she looked like then. Has she sent you any? If so, what did you think?

[Dr. Doogie]

I remember reading on the "C" thread that she has no baby pictures of her self less than 5 yrs old. Does she have any at 6,7 or 8 yrs etc...? School pictures, or year book pics? It would be great to see her 1st or 2nd grade school picture and see what she looked like then. Has she sent you any? If so, what did you think?

C has no contact with her family except for limited contact with the one sister who is slightly older than her (and that relationship is strained, as you might imagine, because of the recent investigation into her possibly being Anna). She has no pictures of her at all as a child and does not have any means of obtaining any from other family members.

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

C has no contact with her family except for limited contact with the one sister who is slightly older than her (and that relationship is strained, as you might imagine, because of the recent investigation into her possibly being Anna). She has no pictures of her at all as a child and does not have any means of obtaining any from other family members.


That's too bad. Poor girl, she's been through a lot.

[Annasmom]

I just had a long phone conversation with a friend of Annasbro who was a kid in Synanon about 40 years ago. He went mostly to their West Oakland facility at 12th and Clay, where he said children were largely unsupervised, but later went several times to a warehouse facility on Lombard Street in San Francisco, near the Embarcadero, where again he said the children's scene was rather chaotic and unattended. Synanon bought the Dutch Paint Boy building on Potrero Hill after he left the group, some time in the 70s, and he believes the picture of the child who resembles Anna must have been taken here. This building was on Kansas Street between 22nd and 23rd Street. He mentioned the later years of Synanon which had to do with assets and internal conflicts, but said he was not involved with the group at that time. I found this very valuable information, and I was delighted to be back in touch with this family friend after so many years. He has made a success of his life. He knew Anna personally, and he said he wished he had more to offer. Sometimes it seems to me that in this search we are casting our net so wide that it brings family, friends and well-wishers together in a way which we could never have predicted. Maybe that is the point of it, after all. Hugs to all of you.

[Jodibug]

C has no contact with her family except for limited contact with the one sister who is slightly older than her (and that relationship is strained, as you might imagine, because of the recent investigation into her possibly being Anna). She has no pictures of her at all as a child and does not have any means of obtaining any from other family members.


So "C"s family knows of the ongoing investigation then? Do they not want her to investigate?

Really, if she was her mothers bio-child, then you would think that mom could provide some real evidence to back that up.

I would have thought that LE would want to surprise her family with that info, (the investigation) once they knew for sure.

That is awful that she has no one in her "family" to turn to.

[Dr. Doogie]

So "C"s family knows of the ongoing investigation then? Do they not want her to investigate?

Really, if she was her mothers bio-child, then you would think that mom could provide some real evidence to back that up.

I would have thought that LE would want to surprise her family with that info, (the investigation) once they knew for sure.

That is awful that she has no one in her "family" to turn to.

The emotional distance between C and her family is one of the crucial factors in C's willingness to believe that she could be Anna. Her mother has insisted that C is her biological child, but some of her siblings (when they were children) have told her that she is adopted. It seems odd that a family that already has several children would adopt a child (unless, of course, that child was a more distant relative where the parents could not care for her. But it seems like when the issue was raised at a later date, the adoptee would be told the truth.).

Concerning any possible criminal charges if C is Anna: we know absolutely nothing of what may have occured that would bring Anna into the possesion of another family and the next step after any confirmation of C's identity would be to determine those series of events. It is quite possible that if C is Anna, her family may be innocent victims of a fraud and not culpable of any wrongdoing (i.e. a friend or family member visits C's family and asks that they look after her "daughter" for her. The family innocently agrees to take in a girl that they had no idea was abducted.) This is definitely something that LE would examine if they determine that C is Anna, but until that determination is made, they are not looking into C's history.

[Dr. Doogie]

I just had a long phone conversation with a friend of Annasbro who was a kid in Synanon about 40 years ago. He went mostly to their West Oakland facility at 12th and Clay, where he said children were largely unsupervised, but later went several times to a warehouse facility on Lombard Street in San Francisco, near the Embarcadero, where again he said the children's scene was rather chaotic and unattended. Synanon bought the Dutch Paint Boy building on Potrero Hill after he left the group, some time in the 70s, and he believes the picture of the child who resembles Anna must have been taken here. This building was on Kansas Street between 22nd and 23rd Street. He mentioned the later years of Synanon which had to do with assets and internal conflicts, but said he was not involved with the group at that time. I found this very valuable information, and I was delighted to be back in touch with this family friend after so many years. He has made a success of his life. He knew Anna personally, and he said he wished he had more to offer. Sometimes it seems to me that in this search we are casting our net so wide that it brings family, friends and well-wishers together in a way which we could never have predicted. Maybe that is the point of it, after all. Hugs to all of you.

Annasmom: Was this friend involved with Synanon in the 1973-1975 era? And do I know him? (You can email me a name if so.) Thanks!

[Cubby]

I suspect that Margaret Kukoda is her real name - it was the name that she faced legal charges under in the early 1950's which also referenced her military career.


What military records are available? Wouldn't those list at least her parents name or some other family information? Also, Anna'smom thought MK's death cert was in the BFH was there any family information on that? I wonder if Margaret was in contact with her family during her years with GB and how much her family would know about him.

[Dr. Doogie]

What military records are available? Wouldn't those list at least her parents name or some other family information?

The only military records that are available to the public are draft records (which would only cover men from this time frame). Because the whole link of Brody and Margaret to Anna's disappearance is speculation, there would not be any evidence to justify a warrant to gain this info.

Also, Anna'smom thought MK's death cert was in the BFH was there any family information on that?

The DC was definitely in the BFH, but it did not contain any info about her family. However, through genealogical sites, we know her siblings names and where they lived in 1930. Based on that, we can track down her descendants.

I wonder if Margaret was in contact with her family during her years with GB and how much her family would know about him.

We are looking into that possibility.

[Medusa]

You might check with an attorney in California but I believe that any statutes of limitations on kidnapping and fraud expired long ago. The iffy part might be if they count it from when the crime was discovered (ie by the victim). More than likely whoever did this gets a pass for the time passing.

MTCW

[Annasmom]

You might check with an attorney in California but I believe that any statutes of limitations on kidnapping and fraud expired long ago. The iffy part might be if they count it from when the crime was discovered (ie by the victim). More than likely whoever did this gets a pass for the time passing.

MTCW
There is no statute of limitations on kidnapping.

[skywatchn]

I was looking for information about Midget Wolgast and found this photo and information. I know that at one time we looked at Bobby Wolgast but Midget Wolgast was born Joseph Robert Loscalzo.

Look at this info and then look at the writing on the photo and compare the " NY" under national to the NY in the word Eternity on George Brody's photo that he signed. They look somewhat the same.

Midget Wolgast fought in several places including Philadelphia and Oakland, CA.

Also in some of his photos his ears are different appearing that he may have had surgery to remove extra skin.

I see it says he died 10-19-1955. Does anyone agree that the letters look alike?

Here is the link to view:
http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/boxing/wolgast-midget.htm

Some photos here:
http://www.phillyboxinghistory.com/galleries/gallery_wolgast_midget.htm

[Medusa]

There is no statute of limitations on kidnapping.

Thanks, I wasn't sure about that.

[Annasmom]

I was looking for information about Midget Wolgast and found this photo and information. I know that at one time we looked at Bobby Wolgast but Midget Wolgast was born Joseph Robert Loscalzo/
Look at this info and then look at the writing on the photo and compare the " NY" under national to the NY in the word Eternity on George Brody's photo that he signed. They look somewhat the same.
Midget Wolgast fought in several places including Philadelphia and Oakland, CA.
Also in some of his photos his ears are different appearing that he may have had surgery to remove extra skin.
I see it says he died 10-19-1955. Does anyone agree that the letters look alike?
Here is the link to view:
http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/boxing/wolgast-midget.htm
Some photos here:
http://www.phillyboxinghistory.com/galleries/gallery_wolgast_midget.htm
It seems to me that we looked at Midget Wolgast before. I agree that the letters look somewhat the same, but I'm not sure what the connection might be, since we can place George Brody in San Francisco for many years after the time this boxer died.

[Annasmom]

Thanks, I wasn't sure about that.

Medusa, I didn't mean to sound snippy. It's just that you'd hate to think of someone getting away with something like stealing a child from her family. Thanks for your thoughts and your input.

[smile22]

I was looking for information about Midget Wolgast and found this photo and information. I know that at one time we looked at Bobby Wolgast but Midget Wolgast was born Joseph Robert Loscalzo.

Look at this info and then look at the writing on the photo and compare the " NY" under national to the NY in the word Eternity on George Brody's photo that he signed. They look somewhat the same.

Midget Wolgast fought in several places including Philadelphia and Oakland, CA.

Also in some of his photos his ears are different appearing that he may have had surgery to remove extra skin.

I see it says he died 10-19-1955. Does anyone agree that the letters look alike?

Here is the link to view:
http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/boxing/wolgast-midget.htm

Some photos here:
http://www.phillyboxinghistory.com/galleries/gallery_wolgast_midget.htm


in the second set of pictures i pictured this guy with brodys hair and his glasses and i felt they could be one and the same we should look up more info on this guy

[mfmangel1]

C has no contact with her family except for limited contact with the one sister who is slightly older than her (and that relationship is strained, as you might imagine, because of the recent investigation into her possibly being Anna). She has no pictures of her at all as a child and does not have any means of obtaining any from other family members.

Is it possible C could contact the schools she attended to see if they kept copies of the group class photos through the years or perhaps they took individual photos. Maybe even year books or year books from her teen years that might be able to be age progressed with Anna? How about any childhood friends that she attended birthday parties with or went on trips with? Was she in brownies, girl scouts, ballet, etc...There have got to be pictures of her from outside sources.

BTW, I am sick from eating too many girl scout cookies! They are so good!

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

Is it possible C could contact the schools she attended to see if they kept copies of the group class photos through the years or perhaps they took individual photos. Maybe even year books or year books from her teen years that might be able to be age progressed with Anna? How about any childhood friends that she attended birthday parties with or went on trips with? Was she in brownies, girl scouts, ballet, etc...There have got to be pictures of her from outside sources.

BTW, I am sick from eating too many girl scout cookies! They are so good!


I too wondered about this. I know that the high school I attended in the early 80's has every year book for the Sr. high and Jr. High school since they started offering them. They also have most years at 2 of the local libraries. My son's school has copies of year books that has their Grandmothers pictures in it. (And that's a long time ago!!LOL)

Life Touch is the oldest and most popular school portrait company in the US. I just sent an e-mail requesting how long records are kept. She can probably order her old pictures very easily through the company website.

Even if a family does not order the pictures, they still take one of each child. This company also works with the NCMEC

[Shadow205]

I am anxious to see if the company keeps records of all of their portraits taken in schools and for how long. Let's keep our fingers crossed that they have a picture of "C" as a young child. I think this is a good drirection to be looking in. There has to be a childhood picture of her somewhere. I would look toward chilrdhood friends also for pictures of birthday parties and other events.
I know we discussed this all before but I think it worth bringing up again.

[PaulaKay]

I worked for Life Touch for 3 years. That's the company that own the portrait studios in the JCPenney stores and many Target stores. They will definitely help if they can.

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

LifeTouch contacted me via e-mail this morning. It sounds like "C" is in luck, if her school actually used LifeTouch as their school photographers. (Most do, with the exception of Senior Pictures) Of course I have no way of knowing where she even went to school.

http://schoolportraits.lifetouch.com/
Click on reorder info. and then a link for "local Lifetouch office". Enter state, and city, and you will receive the local regional office for the area. She needs to contact the local office for her school to receive reprints.

The reply I received didn't say exactly how long information is kept, but it seemed to indicate that portraits from the 70's would be obtainable. I realize "C" does not have a computer, but if one of you who talk to her could get her the info, she should be able to show you what she looked like in 1st grade by next week.

[RobinH]

LifeTouch contacted me via e-mail this morning. It sounds like "C" is in luck, if her school actually used LifeTouch as their school photographers. (Most do, with the exception of Senior Pictures) Of course I have no way of knowing where she even went to school.

http://schoolportraits.lifetouch.com/
Click on reorder info. and then a link for "local Lifetouch office". Enter state, and city, and you will receive the local regional office for the area. She needs to contact the local office for her school to receive reprints.

The reply I received didn't say exactly how long information is kept, but it seemed to indicate that portraits from the 70's would be obtainable. I realize "C" does not have a computer, but if one of you who talk to her could get her the info, she should be able to show you what she looked like in 1st grade by next week.

I followed the link, and her elementary school is not listed. I have written down the phone number and will ask C if she will call them.

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

I followed the link, and her elementary school is not listed. I have written down the phone number and will ask C if she will call them.


Oh NO! Wouldn't you know it...one of the few schools that don't use this company is HERS! :banghead:

(But maybe they used to. The Company is 70 years old)

[smile22]

what about calling the school directly and finding out what photo places they used over the years i am sure they would have all that info for you

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

I was looking around on Ancestry.com and did see some census records for a George Brody that I don't recall seeing discussed here.

There is a George and Margaret Brody listed on the 1920 census living in Philadelphia PA. The problem is it says George was born in 1890, making him 91 when he died. (Though my Father in law is that old and doesn't look a day over 70..LOL)

Anyway, this same couple is then listed in the 1930 Census as living in San Francisco, CA. I'm positive it's the same people, for all of the info is the same such as ages, birth place, mother & fathers birth place ect. In 1920 This George was a plumber in a shipyard, and Margaret worked in a chocolate factory. In 1930 George was a merchant at a Hardware store, (no job listed for wife). Their address was listed as 20th Avenue SF CA.

I can not find death records for either of them, so they either died by 1940 (Rather a young age)or they divorced & or she changed her last name...I think I found Margarets record before they where married & her last name might have been Mount, though I can't find any thing prior for George with the same birth year. I doubt this Margret is Kukoda because her birth year is 1895 and according to that newspaper pic of Kudoda, she looks too young to be 50 yrs old in that picture. Also interesting to note Margaret Brody was 35 in 1930 and there where still no children listed for them, possibly she couldn't have children?

Who else thinks it's suspicious that Kukoda died on her 50th birthday to the day. Did Anna's Mom ever meet her? What years did Brody & her live together? Are there confirmed records to prove this fact? Where did they live? In the same hotel as Waters & Brody? Is the Nurse in the newspaper for sure Brodys Marg. K.? I remember reading that her nickname was mary Kay, because of her involvement in the cosmetic company, I find that odd, considering the company wasn't founded until late 1963, and was based in TX. It took a few years before the company really took off. (But when it did, it was big). I give her 2 years TOPS with the company.

Is it possible for Brody to have changed his name prior to 1920? Could Margaret have left him when he took up with kukoda.

I read somewhere that Someone found Kukoda's family in some census records, was this indeed verified to be her correct and true family?

[Dr. Doogie]

..There is a George and Margaret Brody listed on the 1920 census living in Philadelphia PA. ...Anyway, this same couple is then listed in the 1930 Census as living in San Francisco, CA. I'm positive it's the same people, for all of the info is the same such as ages, birth place, mother & fathers birth place ect. ...

Very interesting....

I will post in detail about this later today.

[Annasmom]

Who else thinks it's suspicious that Kukoda died on her 50th birthday to the day. Did Anna's Mom ever meet her? What years did Brody & her live together? Are there confirmed records to prove this fact? Where did they live? In the same hotel as Waters & Brody? Is the Nurse in the newspaper for sure Brodys Marg. K.? I remember reading that her nickname was mary Kay, because of her involvement in the cosmetic company, I find that odd, considering the company wasn't founded until late 1963, and was based in TX. It took a few years before the company really took off. (But when it did, it was big). I give her 2 years TOPS with the company.

I can answer a few of your questions. First, I didn't realize that Margaret died on her birthday, but considering she was in a coma, in a public facility, I think it is probably more odd than suspicious (though Brody was very secretive about giving her stethoscope--which I still have--to GW). Margaret and Brody did live together, according to a former landlord with whom we had a mutual acquaintance. I think the house or apartment was in the Noe Valley in San Francisco, quite a way from 20th Avenue, though I am not sure of that. We got the information about the Margaret who was in the newspaper from the state nursing license board, and I believe I checked the birthdate at the time.

[Dr. Doogie]

If this is our Brody, then the Margaret who was his wife could not be Kukoda - she was definitely younger than the wife. If this is the same GB, then he must have had two different Margarets in his life.

I will have to research it again, but I believe that zabasearch shows a very old George Brody living in San Francisco currently. I will have to see if his listed age corresponds with this GB's birthdate. As most of you probably know, zaba will show people long after they have passed away, thus some really wild ages appear on the site. If this GB is the one that Interestedwoman mentions, then it is not our GB. However, the link between this GB and Philadelphia is very intriguing - it is the first such person who ties back to PA.

I suspect that the Mary Kay nickname was not related to the Mary Kay Cosmetics (though it is speculated that it might in the search notes in the BFH). Margaret Kukoda had an alias of Mary Kay (Margaret K. / Mary K.) and George Brody was known as George Bee (George B.). I just don't think that they were very imaginative with their aliases - it was just their first names with a spelled-out version of their last initials.

[Annasbro]

Here are a couple of shots of the farm from the air. I captured them from Google Earth

171

172

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

I forgot to mention that in the 1930 census records, there were middle initials for both George (N.) Brody b. 1890 and Margaret (V.) Brody b.1895. Like I said earlier I do not believe this Margaret is MK, but George may be "the" George. He was a merchant in a hardware store. I wrote to Cole Hardware Store today which was established in the 1920 in SF. Rick Karp the owner of the small local chain wrote back and said his father bought the original store in 1959 from the Stanzel Brothers. He did not know of Brody, so it wasn't that one...LOL How many Hardware stores were in SF in the 1920-1930's? Couldn't be that many could it?

Also I continue to search for death records of these two people and have come up with zip. It's like they vanished, or became paranoid. :eek:
Anyone know where I could search for missing persons from the 1930's (As if anyone reported them missing).

MAybe this is "the" Brody, and when his wife died, he played a Waters and left out all the important stuff on her death certificate. I know a plumber & a salesman is a far cry from a boxer and a politician, but you just never know. :)

[Dr. Doogie]

...LOL How many Hardware stores were in SF in the 1920-1930's? Couldn't be that many could it?...

More than you could dream of... :eek:

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

You ready for my latest theory? Okay, here it goes. This is it for today. George (age 30) & Margaret Brody (age 25) in PA in the 1920's could not have a child. They abduct a little girl born in 1917. They take her to SF not to get caught. They re-name her Margaret and say she's a niece, (or something) and they are caring for her, but don't have to claim her as a dependant. Wife dies and he somehow alters her death certificate...(or she leaves him because he's treating MK like more of a "lover" and chages her name, get re-married... )George is devastated after the loss of his "abducted -daughter/lover" and moves in on Waters, knowing he has a young baby girl. Says she's a reincarnation of his beloved Margaret. Talks Waters into taking her (The Plan) but Anna does not respond to his, quote: "Instantaneous Everlasting Attraction". He feels betrayed at her non-compliance, and finds her a new family. And the rest is anyone's guess...hopefully "C", but I have my theories on that as well.

[Dr. Doogie]

Well, that is one angle that I had not considered. The only immediate flaw that I can think of is that there appears to be paperwork for a legitimate Margaret Kukoda from PA. However... there is another Margaret Kukoda who continued to live in PA also. This is total speculation, but it is conceivable that the SF MK was a case of stolen identity from the PA MK.

Gawd, this can get confusing! :confused:

[Dr. Doogie]

Another couple of quick thoughts about the above theory: the transfer to another family would have had to have occured almost immediately since the two Georges must have figured that they would be suspects in Anna's disappearance, and the series of events required to implement this plan would have had to have taken almost six years to come to fruitition (August 1967 until January 1973) which seems unlikely.

[Annasmom]

Another couple of quick thoughts about the above theory: the transfer to another family would have had to have occured almost immediately since the two Georges must have figured that they would be suspects in Anna's disappearance, and the series of events required to implement this plan would have had to have taken almost six years to come to fruitition (August 1967 until January 1973) which seems unlikely.Besides which, there was no baby girl when the two Georges met. GB's initial cultivation of GW was in order to get personalized medical care for Margaret; later it became a guru-student relationship and ultimately a financial support issue.

[Dr. Doogie]

Besides which, there was no baby girl when the two Georges met. GB's initial cultivation of GW was in order to get personalized medical care for Margaret; later it became a guru-student relationship and ultimately a financial support issue.

That is true - Anna was not born in August of 1967 when Margaret died.

[Annasmom]

You ready for my latest theory? Okay, here it goes. This is it for today. George (age 30) & Margaret Brody (age 25) in PA in the 1920's could not have a child. They abduct a little girl born in 1917. They take her to SF not to get caught. They re-name her Margaret and say she's a niece, (or something) and they are caring for her, but don't have to claim her as a dependant. Wife dies and he somehow alters her death certificate...(or she leaves him because he's treating MK like more of a "lover" and chages her name, get re-married... )George is devastated after the loss of his "abducted -daughter/lover" and moves in on Waters, knowing he has a young baby girl. Says she's a reincarnation of his beloved Margaret. Talks Waters into taking her (The Plan) but Anna does not respond to his, quote: "Instantaneous Everlasting Attraction". He feels betrayed at her non-compliance, and finds her a new family. And the rest is anyone's guess...hopefully "C", but I have my theories on that as well. I can't really follow this line of thinking. There was no third person on the scene when George and Margaret were renting the apartment from Matt in the Noe Valley. Waters had no baby girl when the two Georges met. The statement about "reincarnation" was a bare mention and was made when Anna was several months old (but I was already pregnant when Margaret Kukoda died, and even people who believe in reincarnation don't claim that one soul can inhabit two bodies at once.) GB showed very little interest in Anna, apart from his usual power trip of trying to influence her life and the lives of those in her family.

[Medusa]

Medusa, I didn't mean to sound snippy. It's just that you'd hate to think of someone getting away with something like stealing a child from her family. Thanks for your thoughts and your input.

Oh no,I didn't think you sounded snippy at all. I am glad to know it as someone told me not long ago there was a stat of lim on EVERYTHING but murder and that is just so wrong. I was glad to learn I had been told incorrectly on that! Even if I don't post much, you, your family and Anna are always in my prayers. I hope that there is a resolution soon!!

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

I can't really follow this line of thinking. There was no third person on the scene when George and Margaret were renting the apartment from Matt in the Noe Valley.

This is because she (MB) is already gone by then


Waters had no baby girl when the two Georges met.

But he knew there was about to be a new baby


The statement about "reincarnation" was a bare mention and was made when Anna was several months old (but I was already pregnant when Margaret Kukoda died, and even people who believe in reincarnation don't claim that one soul can inhabit two bodies at once.)

Brody was obviously crazy, If he said Anna was a reincarnation at any time, he had his own theory on reincarnation

GB showed very little interest in Anna, apart from his usual power trip of trying to influence her life and the lives of those in her family.[/quote]

True...or is it?

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

Another couple of quick thoughts about the above theory: the transfer to another family would have had to have occured almost immediately since the two Georges must have figured that they would be suspects in Anna's disappearance, and the series of events required to implement this plan would have had to have taken almost six years to come to fruitition (August 1967 until January 1973) which seems unlikely.

I don't think it was an instant thing. First he had to take Waters away from his wife, then take the child away from the wife.

Didn't Brody & Waters leave the area for several days a week or so after Annas dissaperance? They also had another room rented somewhere? They could have kept her in the "other room" for several days. And from what has been posted, they never were suspects. LE never really gave them a second thought. Joe Ford was the only one who ever really investigated them...

Maybe Waters was a hard sell on the abduction. It took Brody a lot of brain washing.

[RobinH]

Is it possible C could contact the schools she attended to see if they kept copies of the group class photos through the years or perhaps they took individual photos. Maybe even year books or year books from her teen years that might be able to be age progressed with Anna? How about any childhood friends that she attended birthday parties with or went on trips with? Was she in brownies, girl scouts, ballet, etc...There have got to be pictures of her from outside sources.

BTW, I am sick from eating too many girl scout cookies! They are so good!

Message:
I am trying to locate an elementary school photo for my friend who had 2 house fires when she was younger and has no pictures of herself. I am looking for photos of (C's Name) who may have attended (School Name) in the years 1973 through 1978 and would have been in K-5th grade at the time. Any help would be greatly appreciated
Answer:
Thank you for contacting us. Your request is being forwarded to your local Lifetouch office. The local office will be in contact with you.
Message:
Im sorry, we only hold our negatives for one year!
My next email to them:
Do you keep class pictures or yearbooks longer? Where might I be able to find a photo of her during her school years?

Reply:
No, I am sorry!

Are there any other suggestions? I really don't know where else to turn for photos of her.

[Dr. Doogie]

Message:
I am trying to locate an elementary school photo for my friend who had 2 house fires when she was younger and has no pictures of herself. I am looking for photos of (C's Name) who may have attended (School Name) in the years 1973 through 1978 and would have been in K-5th grade at the time. Any help would be greatly appreciated
Answer:
Thank you for contacting us. Your request is being forwarded to your local Lifetouch office. The local office will be in contact with you.
Message:
Im sorry, we only hold our negatives for one year!
My next email to them:
Do you keep class pictures or yearbooks longer? Where might I be able to find a photo of her during her school years?

Reply:
No, I am sorry!

Are there any other suggestions? I really don't know where else to turn for photos of her.


I wonder if the school itself maintains a record of class photos? In the Zodiac Killer case, one of the main suspects was a teacher in the Sonora, CA area in the mid-sixties and the researchers there were able to locate a class photo (including the teacher/suspect) in the schools archives.

[RobinH]

I wonder if the school itself maintains a record of class photos? In the Zodiac Killer case, one of the main suspects was a teacher in the Sonora, CA area in the mid-sixties and the researchers there were able to locate a class photo (including the teacher/suspect) in the schools archives.

Checking back into prior posts, this is an avenue that I researched extensively awhile back, including creating an account with friendsters, contacting all the schools that she may have attended, and exhausting all potential family that I know of. All of the schools informed me that they do not keep photos, but send them with her file to the next school, and did not even have class books. When I got to the school that she last attended, I was told that all of those photos were destroyed, and all they kept was a transcript of her grades.