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Dr. Doogie
01-19-2007, 11:15 AM
Her ya' go.

Annasmom
01-19-2007, 01:04 PM
Her ya' go.
Doogie, are they going to lock Part One so that people don't go on posting there?

Dr. Doogie
01-19-2007, 01:07 PM
Doogie, are they going to lock Part One so that people don't go on posting there?
I will have to look into that. I'll see what I can do.

Dr. Doogie
01-19-2007, 02:20 PM
The other thread is now locked.

Annasmom
01-26-2007, 07:53 PM
Todd (who did the Missing Pieces show with Doogie) sent these statistics on missing persons for our information.

Please pass along this message to whomever
might have a need for this information. Specific
state statistics are available upon request.
NCIC Statistics - derived from stats provided by
the FBI-NCIC for media relations -- USA & Canada

~ UPDATED ~

According to the FBI-NCIC there are (approximately) Current as of the December 31, 2006 indexing 110,484 Missing Persons listed in their system. Children and adult. (Up from last months total of 109,592 )

There are (approximately) 6,208 Unidentified Persons listed their system. Children and adult.
(Up from last month's total of 6,205)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As of 1-30-06
Of the 108, 949 missing...only 1,435 of them are Canadian numbers.

Of the 5,972 unidentified...only 50 of them are Canadian numbers.
The rest are USA and its territories.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Most Missing City:
as of 12-31-06
Washington DC has more missing persons than any other city (listed with the NCIC) with
4,042 missing persons. (Up from last month's total of 3,963)

Most Unidentified City:
as of 12-31-06 New York City has more unidentified persons than any other city (listed with the NCIC) with 399 unidentified persons (Down from last month's total of 402)
__________________________________________________ ______________________

The numbers fluctuate due to newly entered cases and removal of resolved cases.
Often cases are often purged and / or expire.

For additional information:
http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cjisd/missingpersons.htm

__________________________________________________ ____________________

Gender specifics - as of August 2005 -

1,474 active unidentified female entries,
4,264 active unidentified male entries
and 213 active unidentified unknown sex entries.
__________________________________________________ ________________

A spike/ drop in numbers does not necessarily mean an increase in missing and unidentified; it can means that more cases are being entered/ removed into the system.

Older cases are often added to the NCIC years after the actual event initially took place.


DoeNetwork Updates:
www.DoeNetwork.us/update.html
NAMPN Updates:
www.nampn.doenetwork.us/updates.html
__________________________________________________ _______________

Updates courtesy of & posted monthly at -
www.TheLostAndTheFound.com
and / or
www.LFGRC.org

(State specific information available upon request.)

We promote many great volunteer / professional organizations listed on the Lost & Found. Please visit to find someone out there who can be of help for your own missing / unidentified persons cases.
__________________________________________________ _________________


The NCIC statistics reflect the USA, Canada and their territories.

Some experts feel that these are only 10-50% of the actual numbers as not all cases are / were reported to the NCIC by law enforcement. We hope to encourage more agencies to take full advantage of this available resource. We hope to see a retroactive approach to the submission process as well.

There are many cases that are not yet listed with the NCIC. Missing-person experts estimate that the bodies of 40,000 to 50,000 unidentified men, women and children were found by police during the past 50 years.

For the family members of the missing, it is imperative that they properly report and request that their loved one's case is indeed listed in the NCIC. The law enforcement agency in charge are the only ones that can submit the case to the NCIC.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The International Homicide Investigators Association estimates there are more than 40,000
unidentified dead nationally. (USA)
_____________________________________________ ____________________________

Important Tips for family members of the lost from the Outpost For Hope :
http://www.outpostforhope.org/missing_loved_ones/checklist.htm

__________________________________________________ __________________________________

www.ColdCasesGroup.com

YOU can help! Feel free to join the 2,000 + members at the 8 year old COLDCASES discussion group on Yahoo Groups: www.ColdCasesGroup.com

__________________________________________________ ________________
Please pass along this message to whomever
might have a need for this information.Specific
state statistics are available upon request.
__________________________________________

PROJECT EDAN
Everyone Deserves A Name Changing the faces of the
missing & unidentified Any evidence or information discovered during reconstruction
process will be directly reported to the law enforcement agency.

www.ProjectEDAN.us
Forensic & Age Progression
Art Service -

FREE to Law Enforcement &
approved non profit organizations.

Sketches Express The Softer Side Of The Missing Women
http://missingpeople.net/sketches_express_softer_side_of.htm

'Everyone Deserves A Name' is truth seeker's creed
http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060221/NEWS03/602210338
__________________________________________________ __________________

Todd Matthews
JTMatthews@Twlakes.Net
www.TentGirl.com
Director ~ www.ProjectEDAN.us &
www.TheLostAndTheFound.com
Media Director / Board ~
www.DoeNetwork.us
www.OutpostForHope.org
www.FourTheKids.org
www.NYmissing.com
Member ~ www.TheIAI.org
www.NomisProject.com
Host ~ www.MissingPieces.info
931-397-3893
www.FourTheKids.org

_________________________

SherlockJr
02-03-2007, 12:58 PM
Where about on the road did the carpenter friend stop to look at horses when he saw a van with 2 men driving west. Was the carpenter east of the ranch or west of the ranch?


http://websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=45&stc=1

Annasmom
02-03-2007, 01:31 PM
Where about on the road did the carpenter friend stop to look at horses when he saw a van with 2 men driving west. Was the carpenter east of the ranch or west of the ranch?


http://websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=45&stc=1
He would have been coming from the Coast Highway, which would put him west of the ranch.

SherlockJr
02-03-2007, 02:14 PM
He would have been coming from the Coast Highway, which would put him west of the ranch.Does it make sense that after the van passed the carpenter on the road that they would turn around heading east now and take Anna if she happened to go up to the road to check the mail? Or that it's possible they found a spot west of the ranch to pull over, walk thru woods near creek and take Anna from the backyard?

SherlockJr
02-03-2007, 02:51 PM
He would have been coming from the Coast Highway, which would put him west of the ranch.
Is the Coast Highway also known as Rt 1 or Hwy 35?

Gina_M
02-03-2007, 05:04 PM
Is the Coast Highway also known as Rt 1 or Hwy 35?
Coast Highway is Route 1.

Annasmom
02-03-2007, 07:34 PM
Does it make sense that after the van passed the carpenter on the road that they would turn around heading east now and take Anna if she happened to go up to the road to check the mail? Or that it's possible they found a spot west of the ranch to pull over, walk thru woods near creek and take Anna from the backyard? Sherlock, we have always thought that whoever took Anna watched the farm from Higgins/Purisima Road (where Doogie took the pictures), drove down when they saw her in the yard, picked her up on the road when she went to check the mail, and then continued west toward the Coast Highway (Highway One).

SherlockJr
02-03-2007, 07:42 PM
I thought the carpenter reported he saw Anna in the yard when he arrived???

Annasmom
02-03-2007, 08:09 PM
I thought the carpenter reported he saw Anna in the yard when he arrived???Oh, duh, you're right. I wasn't thinking. He said he greeted her at the front yard, which is why we thought she was going to check the mail (because there wasn't anything else to do in front of the house, so no other reason for her to be there.)

GraceBlue
02-13-2007, 08:35 AM
Annasmom-I was thinking of the story Annasbro told of him and Anna walking on some road when the woman asked Anna to get in the car. Was that Purisima road ? Or was it some dirt 'back road'? (I cant remember.) Do you think Anna would have walked there by herself the day she disappeared?

Annasbro
02-13-2007, 11:09 AM
It was Purisima Rd. and it was about 1/3 of a mile east of our house heading to the back of the canyon

Annasmom
02-13-2007, 12:28 PM
Annasmom-I was thinking of the story Annasbro told of him and Anna walking on some road when the woman asked Anna to get in the car. Was that Purisima road ? Or was it some dirt 'back road'? (I cant remember.) Do you think Anna would have walked there by herself the day she disappeared? This was Purisima Creek Road, the paved county road which ran east and west of our house. The mailboxes were on this road, but were not visible from our living room, since the house was below the level of the road. Anna may have gone up to the road to check the mailbox (remember, a friend said he greeted her at the front door), but it is unlikely that she would have walked farther down the road by herself (there was nothing to see down that way), and even if she had, there were many searchers, Sheriff's men, etc., parked and walking along that road within the hour.

Dr. Doogie
02-25-2007, 04:04 PM
Please post any specific questions for Annasmom or any messages directed to individual posters here (unless they relate specifically to one of the already established threads, then post them into the appropraite thread.). The reason for this is that if we start new threads on "micro-topics", the number of threads will make the forum very difficult to follow.

Thanks for everyone's cooperation! :)

Dr. Doogie
03-04-2007, 12:49 AM
This is something that was discussed on the original thread for Anna, but may not be known by most here, so I want to repeat this information:

This case has no known tie-in to the Zodiac case.

There are a few coincidences that created interest (listed and evaluated below):

* An early suspect in the case was named George Waters (this fact is prominently mentioned in the new Zodiac movie and is why I am posting this info). This GW was a bartender in Vallejo, not a doctor in San Francisco and is not the same man.

* It is believed by some that Zodiac victim Darlene Ferrin knew the Zodiac and that he had stalked her in her job as a waitress at various coffee shops in Vallejo. Waters and Brody were known to frequent coffee shops and Brody often believed that the waitresses were sexually/romantically interested in him. However, there has never been any evidence that Brody or Walters frequented the Vallejo area. (When Brody travelled to his banks in the East Bay, he usually travelled by the BART light-rail system, which does not go to Vallejo.)

* Darlene Ferrin did live for awhile one-half block away from where Brody lived on Sutter Street at the same time for a brief period. However, I have never found any evidence that she worked at any coffee shops in SF where the two Georges seemed to frequent.

* Murdered cabbie Paul Stine picked up the Zodiac on Geary Street about two blocks from the hotel that GB and GW lived. Brody does somewhat resemble the police sketch of the Zodiac (see attached pics below) but not the physical description. Brody is too small and too old. Waters was too tall and too thin.

* The Zodiac murders started about the same time as Waters and Annasmom seperated and Waters fell further under the spell of Brody. However, the murders started in December 1968, while the final seperation occured in early 1969.

smile22
03-04-2007, 09:51 AM
This is something that was discussed on the original thread for Anna, but may not be known by most here, so I want to repeat this information:

This case has no known tie-in to the Zodiac case.

There are a few coincidences that created interest (listed and evaluated below):

* An early suspect in the case was named George Waters (this fact is prominently mentioned in the new Zodiac movie and is why I am posting this info). This GW was a bartender in Vallejo, not a doctor in San Francisco and is not the same man.

* It is believed by some that Zodiac victim Darlene Ferrin knew the Zodiac and that he had stalked her in her job as a waitress at various coffee shops in Vallejo. Waters and Brody were known to frequent coffee shops and Brody often believed that the waitresses were sexually/romantically interested in him. However, there has never been any evidence that Brody or Walters frequented the Vallejo area. (When Brody travelled to his banks in the East Bay, he usually travelled by the BART light-rail system, which does not go to Vallejo.)

* Darlene Ferrin did live for awhile one-half block away from where Brody lived on Sutter Street at the same time for a brief period. However, I have never found any evidence that she worked at any coffee shops in SF where the two Georges seemed to frequent.

* Murdered cabbie Paul Stine picked up the Zodiac on Geary Street about two blocks from the hotel that GB and GW lived. Brody does somewhat resemble the police sketch of the Zodiac (see attached pics below) but not the physical description. Brody is too small and too old. Waters was too tall and too thin.

* The Zodiac murders started about the same time as Waters and Annasmom seperated and Waters fell further under the spell of Brody. However, the murders started in December 1968, while the final seperation occured in early 1969.


i just noticed something and im not sure if it was brought up before but when i pulled up the picture that you had listed of gb and the zodiac i saw something on the gb picture it says under the picture Marguerite kilroy san fransisco is that a person gb knew or was that the name of the stuido he had the picture done at?
i was looking at some old photos of my mom when she was a about 4 or 5 in the late 50s and on the picture photo holder it listed the studio that the photo was taken at

SherlockJr
03-04-2007, 10:30 AM
i just noticed something and im not sure if it was brought up before but when i pulled up the picture that you had listed of gb and the zodiac i saw something on the gb picture it says under the picture Marguerite kilroy san fransisco is that a person gb knew or was that the name of the stuido he had the picture done at?
i was looking at some old photos of my mom when she was a about 4 or 5 in the late 50s and on the picture photo holder it listed the studio that the photo was taken at
Smile, I looked thru California business listings a long time ago and found no photography studio registered with the state. Kyresearcher I believe found some Kilroy names that may be associated.

Annasmom
03-04-2007, 02:05 PM
Smile, I looked thru California business listings a long time ago and found no photography studio registered with the state. Kyresearcher I believe found some Kilroy names that may be associated. It was a photography studio in San Francisco, now apparently defunct. I found a photo on e-Bay last year (not related to our search) credited to the same studio.

Dr. Doogie
03-05-2007, 10:59 AM
Brody does somewhat resemble the police sketch of the Zodiac (see attached pics below) but not the physical description.It should be pointed out that the police sketch of the Zodiac also resembles George Burns (the late comedian).

smile22
03-05-2007, 12:07 PM
how accurate is the sketch of the zodiac? it sounds like the zodiac resembles afew different people. i wonder if he has anything that is distingushing that would seperate him from other look alikes like something a witness remembered he did that might tie him to another case or something

kyresearcher
03-05-2007, 10:35 PM
how accurate is the sketch of the zodiac? it sounds like the zodiac resembles afew different people. i wonder if he has anything that is distingushing that would seperate him from other look alikes like something a witness remembered he did that might tie him to another case or something Has anyone ever seen one of the letters that the zodiac sent to the LE? It might be interesting to compare his handwriting to GB's.

Dr. Doogie
03-06-2007, 12:56 PM
Has anyone ever seen one of the letters that the zodiac sent to the LE? It might be interesting to compare his handwriting to GB's.
GB rarely wrote anything himself - he dictated his writings to Walters who wrote it down. I did find one handwritten note by Brody (written while Margaret Kukoda was still alive, so early-to-mid 1967) and as I recall, the handwriting does not match Z's style.

smile22
03-07-2007, 06:44 AM
do u think the Z used someone else to write beacuse he didnt want to get cought?

Dr. Doogie
03-07-2007, 11:25 AM
do u think the Z used someone else to write beacuse he didnt want to get cought?To Smile22:
I doubt it. The old Hell's Angel's saying of "Three people can keep a secret if two of them are dead" comes into play - the fewer people who know a secret, the easier it is to keep it.

To everyone in general:
I mentioned the Zodiac in my above posts because I was concerned that the mention of "George Waters" in the new movie would drag us off on a tangent of something that is undoubtably unrelated to Anna's case. Unfortunately, it seems to have had the opposite effect. People here obviously have the right to look into anything that they feel may be relevant, but I am absolutely convinced that the Zodiac has no relation to Anna's case. I believe that the time we spend looking into Z will only detract from our hard work that has brought us closer to discovering the truth about Anna's disappearance.

Maggie97
03-07-2007, 11:43 AM
I have never posted here but this case has really intrigued me. I apologize if I am duplicating information or if the information is of no value - I haven't had the time to read all of the posts to see if this information is now moot.

I recently joined a newspaper archives site and found the following:

On 1/23/1953 a Margaret Kukoda, age 35, was arrested in Oakland, CA. She was a nurse.

On 9/11/1962 a George Brody, a member of the American Legion, was a pall bearer at a funeral in Lowell, Massachusetts.

On 8/3/1948 a George Brody is listed in Lowell, Massachusetts as working for the water company.

If anyone thinks there may be value to this I'm happy keep looking.

Dr. Doogie
03-07-2007, 12:00 PM
I have never posted here but this case has really intrigued me. I apologize if I am duplicating information or if the information is of no value - I haven't had the time to read all of the posts to see if this information is now moot.
Welcome, Maggie97. We can always use the additional help.

On 1/23/1953 a Margaret Kukoda, age 35, was arrested in Oakland, CA. She was a nurse.
Margaret was arrested and plead no contest to performing two illegal abortions on teenage girls. She was given probation. The real question about this incident is whether we can establish any connection to George Brody during this time period. Did he post bail or appear as a witness at her trial, etc.?

On 9/11/1962 a George Brody, a member of the American Legion, was a pall bearer at a funeral in Lowell, Massachusetts.

On 8/3/1948 a George Brody is listed in Lowell, Massachusetts as working for the water company..
I believe that this Brody is the same one that we have found in an old high school yearbook - the picture shows that he is not Brody. Since we suspect that our Brody was from Massachusetts, it may be that this is the identity that he stole to become our Brody (we assume that "George Brody" is an alias).

If anyone thinks there may be value to this I'm happy keep looking.
Please do keep looking into this and anything else that you may find. Even if you bring up things that we have already discovered, it is gratifying to see that our previous research can be duplicated by independent sleuthers - it helps us verify our work. Thanks!

Annasmom
03-12-2007, 01:49 PM
Things have been a little slow on the forum lately, so here's a poem for you:

HOME ON THE RANGE

Briefly, everybody loved and lost at the ranch.
It was that gemmy piece of turf which everybody owned or wanted.
We were married in a treehouse near the mill,
Suspended over the creek,
Singing “Home On the Range.” Four months later,
Helicopters were ripping the air
And frogmen were picking apart the creek bed,
Looking for our lost girl.
The landlord didn’t wear a top hat,
Probably didn’t look like a Dickens villain,
But that is how I remember him. Every month
He wanted more money, wanted to evict everyone,
Schemed to make rental units from pigpens.
Richard planted a fuchsia
Which enchanted hummingbirds.
They hung their nests from his ears
And made bracelets around his wrists
As he watered the bush.
When that singer took money made from music,
Bought the whole place, moved into Richard’s house,
He wondered what had become of the hummingbirds
And the magic fuchsia. Everybody knows her face,
So he recognized her on the street.
But when he asked about his birds, she turned her back
And walked away without a word.
So much for the muse and social justice.

Dr. Doogie
03-12-2007, 02:01 PM
...When that singer took money made from music,
Bought the whole place, moved into Richard’s house,
He wondered what had become of the hummingbirds
And the magic fuchsia. Everybody knows her face,
So he recognized her on the street.
But when he asked about his birds, she turned her back
And walked away without a word.
So much for the muse and social justice...
Not to engage in TC bashing, but something dawns on me: Annasbro has probably been on more records sold in the last ten years than TC. And he doesn't have to worry about the "masses" invading his privacy or stalking him - well, maybe one or two of his old high school girlfriends... :laugh:

SherlockJr
03-12-2007, 02:07 PM
What a lovely poem, Annasmom!

Dr. Doogie
03-21-2007, 11:28 AM
Yay! We are back up on the forum.

There is nothing new to report concerning LE's investigation into "C". We continue to wait for an update.

Meanwhile, there are rumblings of perhaps something new developing unrelated to "C". I am still trying to uncover what is happening and will update when I can. However, it may be nothing more than my imagination.

iNTERESTEDWOMAN
03-21-2007, 12:40 PM
Yay! We are back up on the forum.

There is nothing new to report concerning LE's investigation into "C". We continue to wait for an update.

Meanwhile, there are rumblings of perhaps something new developing unrelated to "C". I am still trying to uncover what is happening and will update when I can. However, it may be nothing more than my imagination.


What I find so sad is that we'll know by the end of the week who's the baby-daddy of Anna Nichole Smith's daughter, but it takes months for Annasmom to find out if "C" is her daughter. Personally I find it hard to keep researching different angles with the results of "C" up in the air.

I'm dieing to know what the new developments are. Let us know asap...PLEASE :rolleyes:

Dr. Doogie
03-21-2007, 01:06 PM
I'm dieing to know what the new developments are. Let us know asap...PLEASE :rolleyes:

Me too, actually. I may be over-analysizing an innocent statement by someone (which is a distinct possibility), but it appeared that there is something happening out there that we are not aware of. I am trying to nail it down (one way or the other), so I probably shouldn't have mentioned it at all, but I just get too d*mn excited...

Jodibug
03-21-2007, 01:09 PM
Me too, actually. I may be over-analysizing an innocent statement by someone (which is a distinct possibility), but it appeared that there is something happening out there that we are not aware of. I am trying to nail it down (one way or the other), so I probably shouldn't have mentioned it at all, but I just get too d*mn excited...

Arrrgggghhhh Doogie, you're driving us nuts with anticipation!!!

:slap:


But I do hope you are having a good day!

SherlockJr
03-26-2007, 10:51 AM
I spent my Saturday reading the Rose Cole threads. I want to bring a section of that to Anna's thread. A former Synanon member was able to get membership at Websleuths to help answer questions concerning the Synanon. Last year they inqired if they knew the girl pictured, they posted a pic of Anna. This was her response:

That was a young girl born in synanon. These questions are not about the Cole girl in question so not comfortable in answering. We try and protect the privacy of those who lived there at an earlier time. I hope you understand. (however, if I understand her story, she testified against the organization on child abuse issues)

A few days later she was asked again about this picture. This time they had both Anna's pic and the girl getting her hair dryed.

Lots of little girls with blonde hair look the same. That little girl has a diffferent first and last name. My mom knows her parents. They married in Synanonn and had this child in 73, born on the Synanon property. Not the same person as you are looking for. Can't see how that is possible based on what you are telling me. I'm trying to honnor protection of people;s names of former synanon members so wil not divulge information but this can't possibly be the same people.

First of all, the picture of the two girls is dated 1974. I would believe that time frame finding a marriage record on the teenager in 1975.

If this member above is telling us this girl was born in 1973, she is way off. That is not a one year old standing there getting her hair dryed.

From e-mails I've received last year from Synanon members, they gave me the name of the younger girl. Again the name they gave me matches the name on her overalls, but this child was born in 1971. To me the child in the picture still looks older than 3 years old.

Do we want to look further into this girl?

http://s13.photobucket.com/albums/a273/shadow205/th_Croppedlittlegirl.jpg (http://s13.photobucket.com/albums/a273/shadow205/?action=view&current=Croppedlittlegirl.jpg)

iNTERESTEDWOMAN
03-26-2007, 11:35 AM
SherlockJr

I questioned the honesty of that particular poster as well (on the Rose thread). She kept saying she had to protect the privacy of other members, and couldn't/wouldn't give names...but when she posted her "biography", she used first and last names of several members. I always thought that was odd. And yes, as you said the dates appear to be way off in comparison of the age the child looks.

Dr. Doogie
03-26-2007, 12:04 PM
I agree that something is amiss concerning the dates in her story. Either the photo is not from 1974 or this is not the girl that she is identifying.

Cubby
03-26-2007, 02:54 PM
I can't find the original larger picture of above. My guess is the child looks about 5. I have a tall (46" 48lb ) 4 yr old, so my comparison is based on my sons stats. He's in the 95th -100th on both ht and wt. Where was Anna on the stats? It might be easier to compare that way.

I think the girl in the picture should be explored further.

Also, I wasn't sure where to post this so I guess here is as good as any. I've tried to compare Annas ears with those pictured. My late great Aunt told me long before DNA was available, ears were often used for comparison. For example, my son and his father both have attached earlobes. Which is less common than detached. Not sure if that's possible, but it might help eliminate or confirm someone before going further.

Also, the pic of "C". Her lips appear to be full. Were Anna's lips full? I was unable to tell from the pics available.

Praying for an answer to this mystery.

iNTERESTEDWOMAN
03-26-2007, 03:59 PM
Sherlock, or anyone:

Do you remember where that picture originated from? (of the older girl blow drying the younger girls hair) you said it was dated 1974. (link below) Was it on the synanon sight? I have to question that date simply by the blow dryer the girl is using. The pistol style hand held blow dryer wasn't even made until 1971, and it took many years for it to be affordable for "home" use. Hair salons used them long before the general public. Even then, most where white/putty. I don't think we got one like in the picture until at least 1979-80. The flat, rectangular style with a handle where really most popular in the early to mid 70s. I also question the jeans the older girl has on, they appear to have strips in them, and that fad didn't really hit until the late 70's I believe. (if you enlarge the picture you'll see what I mean.) Lastly, I wonder when Johnson baby powder started coming in plastic containers, There is what appears to be a plastic container of it on the shelf. I've looked around on collector sights and can't find a time line, I can remember the metal containers as a kid, (and I'm not ancient yet...LOL) The bandanna in the hair thing was pretty popular even in the late 70's...right before the guys started tying them around their legs.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a273/shadow205/Museum_01110.jpg

anythoughts?

Cubby
03-26-2007, 05:01 PM
Sherlock, or anyone:

Do you remember where that picture originated from? (of the older girl blow drying the younger girls hair) you said it was dated 1974. (link below) Was it on the synanon sight? I have to question that date simply by the blow dryer the girl is using. The pistol style hand held blow dryer wasn't even made until 1971, and it took many years for it to be affordable for "home" use. Hair salons used them long before the general public. Even then, most where white/putty. I don't think we got one like in the picture until at least 1979-80. The flat, rectangular style with a handle where really most popular in the early to mid 70s. I also question the jeans the older girl has on, they appear to have strips in them, and that fad didn't really hit until the late 70's I believe. (if you enlarge the picture you'll see what I mean.) Lastly, I wonder when Johnson baby powder started coming in plastic containers, There is what appears to be a plastic container of it on the shelf. I've looked around on collector sights and can't find a time line, I can remember the metal containers as a kid, (and I'm not ancient yet...LOL) The bandanna in the hair thing was pretty popular even in the late 70's...right before the guys started tying them around their legs.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a273/shadow205/Museum_01110.jpg

anythoughts?

Some good questions. I don't recall metal baby powder, but do remember metal tins for bandaids. Your post brought these questions to mind. The shoes? The little girls gym shoes with the rubber toes. What year was that style? .I recall that being earlier to mid 70's. also the year of the older girls shoes reminds me of shoes my parents wore before they dv'd in 77 or so. I don't see stripes in the older girls jeans. Those were still kind of flaired, or rather boot cut. My recollection only goes from elephant to straight leg. I'm going to guess the pic is earlier than late 70's based on the Farrah/Feathered hair style back then. I think the older girl would have some form of feathers. Also, Annasmom would best remember what Anna resembled with wet hair.

The names on the boxes are difficult to make out. If someone can make them out, a year might be better pinpointed based on the popularity of childrens names for a particular year. Popular names by year are easy to search.


just more talking outloud.

iNTERESTEDWOMAN
03-26-2007, 05:34 PM
Some good questions. I don't recall metal baby powder, but do remember metal tins for bandaids. Your post brought these questions to mind. The shoes? The little girls gym shoes with the rubber toes. What year was that style? .I recall that being earlier to mid 70's. also the year of the older girls shoes reminds me of shoes my parents wore before they dv'd in 77 or so. I don't see stripes in the older girls jeans. Those were still kind of flaired, or rather boot cut. My recollection only goes from elephant to straight leg. I'm going to guess the pic is earlier than late 70's based on the Farrah/Feathered hair style back then. I think the older girl would have some form of feathers. Also, Annasmom would best remember what Anna resembled with wet hair.

The names on the boxes are difficult to make out. If someone can make them out, a year might be better pinpointed based on the popularity of childrens names for a particular year. Popular names by year are easy to search.


just more talking outloud.

Not sure about the shoes. I was born in 65 and remember having some similar...though I also remember buying some similar for my child a few years ago.

I have a huge computer screen and I enlarged the picture to 150% and it really did look like those pin strip jeans, though maybe it was just pixelated weirdly on my end. The Blow dryer is really what seems weird to me.

Sherlock said that others told her the little girl was named the name on her overalls, I can't really make it out but it ENDS in a Y for sure, may be Emily. None of the boxes visible have a name with a Y at the end, though one box is clearly marked Christian which was Anna's middle name. It appears to be empty, maybe because she holding the contents in her hands?? The box that is sticking out a bit, might be hers, (Or the girls who owns the hairdryer) but is clearly not the same name as printed on the overalls. Also, You would think they would have separate bathrooms for boys and girls. The name Christian is typically a boys name, I found that interesting.

Annasmom
03-26-2007, 07:23 PM
I can't find the original larger picture of above. My guess is the child looks about 5. I have a tall (46" 48lb ) 4 yr old, so my comparison is based on my sons stats. He's in the 95th -100th on both ht and wt. Where was Anna on the stats? It might be easier to compare that way.

I think the girl in the picture should be explored further.

Also, I wasn't sure where to post this so I guess here is as good as any. I've tried to compare Annas ears with those pictured. My late great Aunt told me long before DNA was available, ears were often used for comparison. For example, my son and his father both have attached earlobes. Which is less common than detached. Not sure if that's possible, but it might help eliminate or confirm someone before going further.

Also, the pic of "C". Her lips appear to be full. Were Anna's lips full? I was unable to tell from the pics available.

Praying for an answer to this mystery.

The little girl's ears look very much like Anna's ears. Anna was exactly average as far as growth went. "Full" lips--well, that's hard to define, but I suppose they were. And I had a pair of striped denim overalls in 1972, so we can't date the picture according to when those were in style. I'm glad you're looking at this picture again. It would really help if we had someone from Synanon who would be more forthcoming.

Dr. Doogie
03-26-2007, 07:41 PM
It would really help if we had someone from Synanon who would be more forthcoming.

I received an email from a member here who located a woman who was a girl in Synanon during the period in question. I will try to contact this woman and see if perhaps she can shed some light.

SherlockJr
03-27-2007, 12:16 AM
LOL, I never dreamed I would be looking up the history of a blow dryer, but here goes....

http://www.bergen.org/AAST/Projects/Engineering_Graphics/_EG2000/hairdryer/1960-1969.html

Julessleuther
03-27-2007, 03:54 AM
Hi all! I have lurked here for a long while, but really want to start helping! I do have some experience in "sleuthing" as I have successfully located three natural siblings, and my natural parents (one of whom I did not want to find) that I was separated from when I was 5. Three, including myself, were adopted into other families in Utah and Pennsylvania. (A real long, long story, and I still have some "sleuthing" of my own that I may need help with someday, but for now I would like to help others.)

Anyway, I analyzed the picture of the girl from synanon. I used a whole bunch of photo filters on it, and this is what I see:

The name on the little girl's overalls may be Emily or Emmy, but I am actually leaning more toward the word family. If you notice that first letter, it really looks like an f with an a right next to it.

Some of the names on the totes under the bench are: Christian, Danielle, and the one by the girls foot looks like Effie's or Affies's. The one on the very left only has the A N D O, but perhaps was Fernando? The box next to Christian I just cannot make out but looks like it starts with a fancy T or a J.

As a reference, I looked very much like Anna when I was her age (no, I know I am not her, I was fostered in 1970). I had very blond hair, and very brown eyes. As I aged, my hair grew in darker, and my eyes are more of a hazel. I went from being very blond at age 4-5 to being darker haired by 7. My older natural sister was a towhead, and by age 7 had reddish brown hair. My point is that if this photo was taken in 1974-75, Anna's hair could have started to grow in darker.

Cubby
03-27-2007, 05:36 AM
LOL, I never dreamed I would be looking up the history of a blow dryer, but here goes....

http://www.bergen.org/AAST/Projects/Engineering_Graphics/_EG2000/hairdryer/1960-1969.html


I found another:
http://tinyurl.com/3ct4yj

Cubby
03-27-2007, 06:27 AM
Hi all! I have lurked here for a long while, but really want to start helping! I do have some experience in "sleuthing" as I have successfully located three natural siblings, and my natural parents (one of whom I did not want to find) that I was separated from when I was 5. Three, including myself, were adopted into other families in Utah and Pennsylvania. (A real long, long story, and I still have some "sleuthing" of my own that I may need help with someday, but for now I would like to help others.)

Anyway, I analyzed the picture of the girl from synanon. I used a whole bunch of photo filters on it, and this is what I see:

The name on the little girl's overalls may be Emily or Emmy, but I am actually leaning more toward the word family. If you notice that first letter, it really looks like an f with an a right next to it.

Some of the names on the totes under the bench are: Christian, Danielle, and the one by the girls foot looks like Effie's or Affies's. The one on the very left only has the A N D O, but perhaps was Fernando? The box next to Christian I just cannot make out but looks like it starts with a fancy T or a J.

As a reference, I looked very much like Anna when I was her age (no, I know I am not her, I was fostered in 1970). I had very blond hair, and very brown eyes. As I aged, my hair grew in darker, and my eyes are more of a hazel. I went from being very blond at age 4-5 to being darker haired by 7. My older natural sister was a towhead, and by age 7 had reddish brown hair. My point is that if this photo was taken in 1974-75, Anna's hair could have started to grow in darker.

I don't know how to multiple quote, so I'll respond all in one to the last few posts.


I don't have any photo filters, but I thought the name looked most like Emmy. I can see where you might find the "fa" in family, I thought "To" in tommy first. Looking again, I thought that first letter might be distorted as a result of a faded crease mark about 2/3rd's the way down the lettering.

I also wonder if the garment was hand made? Was synanon known for that? The apples on the pocket and belt area look hand stitched. The sew on patches were popular during that era. Was there a particular mfg such as sears that might have sold a line of childrens clothing with that style apples to help date the picture? - If we can't find more info from a former member of Synanon. Hopefully we can.....

I spent some time looking at the photo trying to find something that might stick out. Two things stood out. 1) The lower child sized sink. - I'm not sure if a "standard" exists for the counter hts for children but that might help determine a possible age for the child in the photo. And the age of the older girl. 2) It might be me, and my recollection of older appliances with thinner electrical cords, but the cord in the photo appears to be as large as current hair dryers. UL/electrical codes vary by state and CA may have required those safety measures sooner......

My best guess on the names on the boxes from the left:

1) ANDO, ainda, arnda, Linda? Fernando makes sense. Linda seems unlikely as it appears the name would have been too far to the right.
2)Christian
3)Tina, Jane or June
4)Joyous
5)Danielle, Nashelle or Mashelle- as a variant of Michelle.

The picture originated from the synanon.org site. I didn't reach much, but saw that quite a few former members wrote books. They are possible contacts. There were over 20,000 members over time, and the former members who signed the guest book available to visitors ( as opposed to the private area designated for former members only ) seemed to think the place was the best thing since sliced bread.

Is there a list of members somewhere no one has found?

Doogie - you mentioned you had previous contact from a former member who you, and others believed was not forthcoming. Was there more than one contact, and I'm new to this, but would gladly help given a little direction. Maybe contacting some of the authors mentioned at the site? or has that avenue been exhausted.

Annasmom - By full lips, I was thinking about the recent trend a few years ago. "C"s lips looked naturally full and similar to that trend. My apologies for not doing my homework and bringing up the ear comparison. I see it's been discussed in detail previously.

iNTERESTEDWOMAN
03-27-2007, 09:02 AM
LOL, I never dreamed I would be looking up the history of a blow dryer, but here goes....

http://www.bergen.org/AAST/Projects/Engineering_Graphics/_EG2000/hairdryer/1960-1969.html


:waitasec: LOL! me too. I spent about 2 hours yesterday searching for that exact hairdryer. My brother called and asks me what I was up to and I tell him, "researching the history of the blow dryer". He's like..."WHAT in the h*ll are you doing that for???" LOL

In my humble opinion, that dryer looks like a con-air pro-style. I'm thinking it's a 78' model, but I have been wrong many times before.

Rhett
03-27-2007, 12:41 PM
I looked at the picture but I don't have any photo filters or anything. I agree that the overalls on the little girl look they say Emily or Emmy. I do not see enough room for family based on the spacing above the pocket. As to the older girls jeans, I think they look stone washed or perhaps they are dark colored jeans (like black) and they are worn looking. I think the hairdryer is metal with silver metal pieces on it. As to the dryer cord I don't know. Since they were into recycling clothing, etc. maybe the cord had been replaced. My husband does this sometimes to keep from buying something new like hairdryer, iron, fans, etc. I want someone who can really zoom in to look at the outlet where the dryer is plugged into the wall. Can you make out anything about it? Also, on the shelf in the top of the picture is something written on a label or something on that shelf. Can anyone read that or is it too small?

SherlockJr
03-27-2007, 12:56 PM
I see what you are describing with the label on the shelf, but it's too small for my eyes to read. The name I was told was Emily. I was also told that Christian is a boy, and was given his last name. The teenager married in 1975 and she was born somewhere around 1957.

Dr. Doogie
03-27-2007, 01:18 PM
...Some of the names on the totes under the bench are: Christian, Danielle, and the one by the girls foot looks like Effie's or Affies's.

WWWWHHHAAATTT???? I'd better take a closer look at that!

BTW, welcome Julessleuther. We can always use the extra help here.

Dr. Doogie
03-27-2007, 01:24 PM
As a reference, I looked very much like Anna when I was her age (no, I know I am not her, I was fostered in 1970). I had very blond hair, and very brown eyes. As I aged, my hair grew in darker, and my eyes are more of a hazel. I went from being very blond at age 4-5 to being darker haired by 7. My older natural sister was a towhead, and by age 7 had reddish brown hair. My point is that if this photo was taken in 1974-75, Anna's hair could have started to grow in darker.

Funny that you mentioned that you are not her - I have become so attuned to sniff out all possibilities that the thought had crossed my mind (we have oftened wondered/fantasised that Anna may be visiting this site ala Shawn Hornbeck). I even went so far as to take a very short look into another Anna who was thirty-nine years old, blond with a mole on the face who has been in the news recently - I'll let you all connect the dots on that one. LOL :doh:

Dr. Doogie
03-27-2007, 01:32 PM
Doogie - you mentioned you had previous contact from a former member who you, and others believed was not forthcoming. Was there more than one contact, and I'm new to this, but would gladly help given a little direction. Maybe contacting some of the authors mentioned at the site? or has that avenue been exhausted.

I do not know if the person who stated that this girl was not Anna and identified her as a different girl was being forthright or not, but I do not have any reason to disbelieve him at this point. He could be 100% correct, mistaken or deceitful. That is why us taking a second look at this is a good idea.

I have purposely been laying low on this discussion because I really want to see what you sleuthers can discover (absent any preconceptions or prejudices that I may have that could slant the investigation one way or another). The Synanon angle is as worthy of investigation as any other hypothesises that we have had and I want to make sure it gets the hard look that it deserves. Thanks to everyone for the ongoing great effort!

SherlockJr
03-27-2007, 01:34 PM
Also, I wasn't sure where to post this so I guess here is as good as any. I've tried to compare Annas ears with those pictured. My late great Aunt told me long before DNA was available, ears were often used for comparison. For example, my son and his father both have attached earlobes. Which is less common than detached. Not sure if that's possible, but it might help eliminate or confirm someone before going further

Something else I picked out of Rose Cole's thread. This was written by the CA investigator who works on 1979 Jane Doe.

The smallest things that are typically overlooked can be the biggest things in an investigation like this. Something as small as an ear lobe (lobule) can just about rule in or out a potential match.

How?

Well, is it pierced, is the lobule fused or detatched - which is a known herditary trait - do the brothers, sisters or parents have the same characteristi? - There's a guy in Canada (Don't quote me on location) that has been conducting a study for decades on human "ear-prints." His conclusion was that ear-print is just as much a one-of-kind as a fingerprint. He's even introduced these findings in court for ear-prints left behind by burgalars who placed their ear / face up to glass to peer into their mark.

So that said, if jane or john doe has an obvious fused or free lobule and your missing person is the opposite - it's a pretty fair rule out.

Eye color is difficult - as there are factors that can effect what you see at a post-mortem examination; decomposition, excessive heat, fire, dependant lividity can really make it difficult as well because the eye becomes so conjested and tardeau spots start to appear.

Jane Doe (CA 1979) was known to be alive the night before - can't reveal why - but I can say that the side of her face that was intact was preserved enough that a false eye-color was not an issue.

Another thing I've noted over the years while dealing with Cold Case Files (I've solved four and during my tour have had only one active Doe case go unidentified - Jane Doe / Castro Valley, CA) is that much older cases seem to have a lot of "Approximation" in the height and weight department. I don't believe that the facility where Jane Doe (CA 1979) had her autopsy in 1979 had a scale big enough to measure a human on a gurney. That said - don't let height and weight send you off a trail too soon. Forensic Science is amazing, but science & the theories behind it are only as good as the humans who derived and dreamed them up - and we, humans, are all capable of being wrong. Case in point: Hawkins & his Black Hole theory were written in stone for the longest time - but now it's pretty much been debunked.

With that being said, what are your opinions on these ears?

iNTERESTEDWOMAN
03-27-2007, 01:49 PM
The actual shape of the ears look similar, but if you notice where they fall, it's pretty different. In the 2 Brody Pic's the bottom of his ear lobes seem to be in line with his upper lip. The guy in the middle with the hat, ear lobes are more even with his nose. They set higher on his face. IMHO

Cubby
03-27-2007, 02:02 PM
I do not know if the person who stated that this girl was not Anna and identified her as a different girl was being forthright or not, but I do not have any reason to disbelieve him at this point. He could be 100% correct, mistaken or deceitful. That is why us taking a second look at this is a good idea.

I have purposely been laying low on this discussion because I really want to see what you sleuthers can discover (absent any preconceptions or prejudices that I may have that could slant the investigation one way or another). The Synanon angle is as worthy of investigation as any other hypothesises that we have had and I want to make sure it gets the hard look that it deserves. Thanks to everyone for the ongoing great effort!

Maybe "forthcoming" was a poor choice for a word. The poster who provided this information indicated the child was born in 73. The picture is dated "about 74" and the caption under that photo on another site indicated something about "getting the hair blow dried before the shave", but the info I've found indicates the shaved heads began in 75. Which would put Anna at 7 or 8 if in fact the caption is correct and the correct photo date coinciding with the shaved heads is 75. I have a hard time placing an age of 7 or 8 on the girl in the photo. I did find a link with pictures for sale of the shaved heads. I didn't see any children or teenagers, only adults. Which leads me to wonder if the female teens and children were also included in the head shaving.......

My thoughts are to first try to pinpoint a date for the picture/event and proceed from there.

SherlockJr
03-27-2007, 02:06 PM
The actual shape of the ears look similar, but if you notice where they fall, it's pretty different. In the 2 Brody Pic's the bottom of his ear lobes seem to be in line with his upper lip. The guy in the middle with the hat, ear lobes are more even with his nose. They set higher on his face. IMHO


I just got done standing in front of the mirror as I was finishing getting ready for work. If I tilted my head downward about 1", my ears match up to my nose. I think it's the angle of the camera or the face.

Cubby
03-27-2007, 03:42 PM
The ears look different to me. The cartilage along the inside of Brody's right ( his right )ear is flatter than that of the baseball player. The cartilage forming the outside shape ( from the top near his head curving down) of Brody's ear doesn't form as much of a closed circle as much as it is I see on the baseball player. Brody just seems to have less pronounced cartilage in both those area's. Also the lobe area - bottom - where a single piercing would be looks to indent kind of like a spoon shape on Brody. I hope that makes sense. I don't know what those parts are called.

JanetElaine
03-27-2007, 03:43 PM
With that being said, what are your opinions on these ears?

When you posted them before, I said I think the left inner (part of the) ear looks different. I would like to expand on that now... I think the ears in 1 and 2 don't look the same. It's hard to describe exactly how, I'd rather get a red pencil, KWIM? ;)
Picture 3 is just too unclear to tell... although at first glance the right ear seems similar to the one in pic 2, but it's just too unclear to be certain.
Are any of these known to be of the same person? PM me if you don't want to 'taint' any other people. :)

Dr. Doogie
03-27-2007, 03:56 PM
...Are any of these known to be of the same person? PM me if you don't want to 'taint' any other people. :)

The pictures on the left and right are of George Brody, the self-styled guru/mentor of Anna's birthfather. The baseball player in the middle is a possible candidate for who Brody was before he became Brody (We strongly suspect that Brody was an alias and that Brody had some sort of history under a different name).

Our speculations about Brody have run the entire spectrum of possibilities: he was a boxer, a lawyer, a baseball player, and even a woman who was dressing as a man. Ultimately, he was con-artist who, so far, has eluded our search for the truth about him.

iNTERESTEDWOMAN
03-27-2007, 04:01 PM
Funny that you mentioned that you are not her - I have become so attuned to sniff out all possibilities that the thought had crossed my mind (we have oftened wondered/fantasised that Anna may be visiting this site ala Shawn Hornbeck). I even went so far as to take a very short look into another Anna who was thirty-nine years old, blond with a mole on the face who has been in the news recently - I'll let you all connect the dots on that one. LOL :doh:
:innocent: That's hilarious...I even went so far about a month ago as to write a letter to tmz.com and asked them to dig up some pictures of ANS when she was 5 yrs old...LOL (It is strange they never show any baby pictures of her!) When other celebs die they usually have a couple thrown into the mix of things!

Shadow205
03-27-2007, 04:17 PM
Well since we are studing/comparing ears, lets get the other set of "possible ear's: up here.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a273/shadow205/wolgast_bobby_ring192404.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a273/shadow205/Brody.jpg

iNTERESTEDWOMAN
03-27-2007, 04:36 PM
Well since we are studing/comparing ears, lets get the other set of "possible ear's: up here.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a273/shadow205/wolgast_bobby_ring192404.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a273/shadow205/Brody.jpg

The ears look similar here too, but the NOSE looks dead on

Dr. Doogie
03-27-2007, 05:25 PM
The ears look similar here too, but the NOSE looks dead on

The nose is definitely a match, as are the ears IMO. The only thing that doesn't seem to match is the lips (the boxer's are much fuller than the picture of "younger Brody"). Anybody want to add a pair of horn-rimmed glasses to the boxer's pic for comparison?

JanetElaine
03-27-2007, 05:27 PM
Well since we are studing/comparing ears, lets get the other set of "possible ear's: up here.



Wow. That's 'earie'. :D

Seriously though. The shape of ears, nose, distance between nose and mouth, distance between eyes plus how they're set, height of bridge of nose, neck/head 'wideness', jaw/chin line, high forehead, shape of the face... Mouth seems different width, but other than that.... dang.

JanetElaine
03-27-2007, 05:29 PM
The pictures on the left and right are of George Brody, the self-styled guru/mentor of Anna's birthfather. The baseball player in the middle is a possible candidate for who Brody was before he became Brody (We strongly suspect that Brody was an alias and that Brody had some sort of history under a different name).

Our speculations about Brody have run the entire spectrum of possibilities: he was a boxer, a lawyer, a baseball player, and even a woman who was dressing as a man. Ultimately, he was con-artist who, so far, has eluded our search for the truth about him.

Thanks, Dr. Doogie.

Dr. Doogie
03-27-2007, 05:39 PM
...The shape of ears, nose, distance between nose and mouth, distance between eyes plus how they're set, height of bridge of nose, neck/head 'wideness', jaw/chin line, high forehead, shape of the face... Mouth seems different width, but other than that.... dang.

If this boxer was Brody, one possible explaination for the difference in the mouth is that Brody evidently had "ill-fitting" dentures.

However, our research into this boxer (Bobby Wolgast) seemed to dead-end when we discovered that he had continued to live in Philly until his death (at a date later than Brody's death).

JanetElaine
03-27-2007, 06:50 PM
I know this is probably way out there, but maybe Bobby Wolgast had a twin? I almost feel stupid even putting this out here... but yanno. I'm just trying to help a little. :o

Dr. Doogie
03-27-2007, 07:05 PM
The reason that we had focused on Bobby Wolgast is because:

*Brody had claimed that he was a boxer.
*Margaret Kukoda had called Brody "Bobby".
*In the words of Annasmom, Wolgast was a "dead-ringer" for Brody.

We did discover a couple of other Wolgasts fighting about the same time, but I do not recall any internet notations that they were related to Bobby. Since Wolgast was an alias (I do not recall the real name, but it was a very common Italian name), I remember that several boxers had adopted the Wolgast last name in honor of a champion named "Midget Wolgast".

Annasmom
03-27-2007, 07:33 PM
Does anyone know anything about handwriting? If so, look at the Fs and Gs in George Brody's writing on the photograph. They don't really look like the way a native English-writer would make them, at least to me. Any ideas?

Cubby
03-28-2007, 12:24 AM
Does anyone know anything about handwriting? If so, look at the Fs and Gs in George Brody's writing on the photograph. They don't really look like the way a native English-writer would make them, at least to me. Any ideas?

The only non native English writing I would be familiar with would be within the last 20 years or so. I've read more about the differences in penmanship based on time periods. Did he have an accent which might lead you to believe he was not born in the states?

Gina_M
03-28-2007, 03:20 AM
I see what you are describing with the label on the shelf, but it's too small for my eyes to read. The name I was told was Emily. I was also told that Christian is a boy, and was given his last name. The teenager married in 1975 and she was born somewhere around 1957.

Regarding the name Emily...reminds me of one of Annasmom's journal entries in "Searching for Anna" -

July 11, 1973

I dreamed of Anna last night: That Joe called me and she was snuggled in bed with him. I asked her where she’d been (she was wearing a print blouse and a blue denim jumper) and she said "I don’t know." I asked her if there was anyone there with her and she said, "Yes, Emily."

iNTERESTEDWOMAN
03-28-2007, 12:12 PM
Regarding the name Emily...reminds me of one of Annasmom's journal entries in "Searching for Anna" -

July 11, 1973

I dreamed of Anna last night: That Joe called me and she was snuggled in bed with him. I asked her where she’d been (she was wearing a print blouse and a blue denim jumper) and she said "I don’t know." I asked her if there was anyone there with her and she said, "Yes, Emily."



Wow, isn't that weird.

InterestedNHelping
03-28-2007, 12:35 PM
Dr. Doogie (or anyone else) On the subject of Brody or Kukoda, I thought of an idea, and wondered if you had researched it already. As I am looking through databases of missing persons, specifically from CA, (as I am searching for someone else unrelated to Anna's case) I noticed that there are very old pictures of people missing from a long time ago. Could it be possible that in some other states, someone could be looking for what happened to 'Brody' under a different name? Possibly you or Annasmom might recognize a face? Just a thought, as I was searching, I started to look into the idea that Brody might be listed missing as someone else, in an old black and white photo...no luck yet, but thought you might consider the idea.

Annasmom
03-28-2007, 02:33 PM
Dr. Doogie (or anyone else) On the subject of Brody or Kukoda, I thought of an idea, and wondered if you had researched it already. As I am looking through databases of missing persons, specifically from CA, (as I am searching for someone else unrelated to Anna's case) I noticed that there are very old pictures of people missing from a long time ago. Could it be possible that in some other states, someone could be looking for what happened to 'Brody' under a different name? Possibly you or Annasmom might recognize a face? Just a thought, as I was searching, I started to look into the idea that Brody might be listed missing as someone else, in an old black and white photo...no luck yet, but thought you might consider the idea. Good idea. How many faces are we talking about, and do you have a link? Regarding the "Emily" dream, it gets even stranger if you consider the other dream mentioned in the journal around that time, that someone had just washed Anna's hair and she asked me "Why did you fire me?" (How's that for a heart-wringer?)

Dr. Doogie
03-28-2007, 03:09 PM
Okay, so now I am getting the heeby-jeebies (a technical term) :eek: : in one dream, Anna just had her hair washed, and in another dream, she says that she is with "Emily". And we have a picture of someone with "Emily" stitched on denim overalls (jumper?) who just had her hair washed. Paging Art Bell...

Cubby
03-28-2007, 04:40 PM
Okay, so now I am getting the heeby-jeebies (a technical term) :eek: : in one dream, Anna just had her hair washed, and in another dream, she says that she is with "Emily". And we have a picture of someone with "Emily" stitched on denim overalls (jumper?) who just had her hair washed. Paging Art Bell...

Overalls... weren't jumpers one pc and sleeveless? Doogie, is it ok for me to call you that?, you crack me up.

More questions.
1) has anyone near UCLA looked into the umpteen boxes available from synanon? since the picture in question is under "school: I might start with that box..... if I were near LA. I noticed n

2) I don't recall reading this previously, as I usually spent hours at a time trying to educate myself prior to posting, what information has been researched via Margaret? Is/was her military information availble giving any other family members? Was that her real name or a possible alias too?
Is it possible any of her family members might have info on GB?

I have many more, but I'll leave it at this, aside from saying, I'm still convinced "C" is Anna. Before I registered, I saw her pic and literally jumped off my chair. The only thing that confuses me is "C"'s hair, like many of us adult woman appears to be colored. I think seeing her natural color would indicate more of a confirmation, along with a picture of her ears. If she would provide that.......... and of course, there is a pic available with Anna's ears.

I look forward to the day, I wake up and find the post Anna has been found. I have no doubt it will happen.

Dr. Doogie
03-28-2007, 05:23 PM
Overalls... weren't jumpers one pc and sleeveless?

Okay, so my fashion-sense is not what it ought to be - I will be starring in a new TV show called "Straight Eye for the Queer Guy" where I teach sensitive guys how to decorate their homes with Pamela Anderson posters, dead animal heads and empty beer cans.

I looked it up and jumpers are sleeveless long dresses. I never wore one so how would I know?

Doogie, is it ok for me to call you that? My parole officer does, why not you?

But in all seriousness...

1) has anyone near UCLA looked into the umpteen boxes available from synanon? since the picture in question is under "school: I might start with that box..... if I were near LA.

Not to my knowledge. There may be someone on the Rose Cole thread may have looked, but they wouldn't necessarily been looking for info about Anna.

2)... what information has been researched via Margaret? Is/was her military information availble giving any other family members? Was that her real name or a possible alias too?
Is it possible any of her family members might have info on GB?

I suspect that Margaret Kukoda is her real name - it was the name that she faced legal charges under in the early 1950's which also referenced her military career. I would assume that any identity theft would have been uncovered at that time. However, we have found another Margaret Kukoda in PA that may have been the source of the original identity...if it was an alias.

We are continuing to research any possible connection between the Kukoda family and Brody.

Shadow205
03-28-2007, 05:33 PM
1) has anyone near UCLA looked into the umpteen boxes available from synanon? since the picture in question is under "school: I might start with that box..... if I were near LA. I noticed n

GinaM has volunteered to do this research. She said she has been very busy but will get to it soon. Maybe someone should put together a list of things for her to look for when she goes. You're right Doogie, it was over in the Rose thread. Someof the details/information in these 2 threads are starting to run together in my mind:waitasec:

Julessleuther
03-29-2007, 01:43 AM
After April 14th I may be able to help Gina--I live in S. Cal too.

iNTERESTEDWOMAN
03-29-2007, 05:02 PM
I found a different pic of Georgiann Brady. (I realize that Annasmom didn't think she looked like Anna, and she should know better than anyone), but this pose with a smile, looks even more like Anna to me. Could you all compare these and give me your thoughts. Also, Where exactly was Anna's mole? I think I read it was on her cheek bone just under her right eye, but how far down? Was it big, little, a bump? I can't see it in any of her pictures.

In one of the pics of Georgiann there appears to be a light colored bump under her right eye.

Anna
http://s177.photobucket.com/albums/w204/iNTERESTEDWOMAN/?action=view&current=Making-a-face-1972.jpg

Georgiann Brady no smile (Possible mole just under her right eye)
http://s177.photobucket.com/albums/w204/iNTERESTEDWOMAN/?action=view&current=71_1.jpg

Anna
http://s177.photobucket.com/albums/w204/iNTERESTEDWOMAN/?action=view&current=Last-photo-1-73-adjusted.jpg

Georgiann Brady w/smile, shows thin arms
http://s177.photobucket.com/albums/w204/iNTERESTEDWOMAN/?action=view&current=georgiann.jpg

If you've down loaded the new explorer magnify to 150%

iNTERESTEDWOMAN
03-29-2007, 06:05 PM
It's also interesting to add that Georgiann's mother's name is Michaeleen. Just 2 additional letters of Annas Mom, and her little sister who is less than a year younger name is Michele MARGARET Brady. Before Peoples Temple, Michaeleen was a hairdresser & PT preschool teacher. From searching birth records it also appears she might have has another child in 1964 named Elizabeth, who also died on the same day. When I have more time, I'll write down everything I've uncovered about this family.

Dr. Doogie
03-29-2007, 06:16 PM
...and her little sister who is less than a year younger name is Michele MARGARET Brady...

A year less than Georgianna? Is there a picture of Michele?

MagicRose99
03-29-2007, 09:33 PM
A year less than Georgianna? Is there a picture of Michele?

I believe this is the site she's looking at: http://jonestown.sdsu.edu/

Click on the "About Jonestown" tab on the left and you get pics...

Annasmom
03-29-2007, 10:33 PM
I found a different pic of Georgiann Brady. (I realize that Annasmom didn't think she looked like Anna, and she should know better than anyone), but this pose with a smile, looks even more like Anna to me. Could you all compare these and give me your thoughts. Also, Where exactly was Anna's mole? I think I read it was on her cheek bone just under her right eye, but how far down? Was it big, little, a bump? I can't see it in any of her pictures. In one of the pics of Georgiann there appears to be a light colored bump under her right eye.

Somewhere on the forum I posted age-advanced pictures of Anna which I had worked on to show where the mole was. It was a small dark mole on her right cheekbone, just below the eye. Of course, moles change with time, and there is no way of knowing how this one might have looked as years passed. However, even with black-and-white pictures, Georgiann's eyes seem to be pale, and I would guess they were blue instead of brown, as Anna's eyes were. I can't tell you exactly why I don't think she resembles Anna; something to do with the shape of her face. By the same token, both Annasbro and I got an immediate reaction to the photograph of C, who very strongly resembles Anna and others in our family. The coincidence of names is very odd, however, just the sort of thing George and George might have dreamed up.
Thank you, Interested, for the time and thought you are spending on this case. It is this sort of concern and energy which is going to give us some answers.

iNTERESTEDWOMAN
03-30-2007, 10:15 AM
<snip> By the same token, both Annasbro and I got an immediate reaction to the photograph of C, who very strongly resembles Anna and others in our family. <snip>

I remember reading on the "C" thread that she has no baby pictures of her self less than 5 yrs old. Does she have any at 6,7 or 8 yrs etc...? School pictures, or year book pics? It would be great to see her 1st or 2nd grade school picture and see what she looked like then. Has she sent you any? If so, what did you think?

Dr. Doogie
03-30-2007, 11:09 AM
I remember reading on the "C" thread that she has no baby pictures of her self less than 5 yrs old. Does she have any at 6,7 or 8 yrs etc...? School pictures, or year book pics? It would be great to see her 1st or 2nd grade school picture and see what she looked like then. Has she sent you any? If so, what did you think?

C has no contact with her family except for limited contact with the one sister who is slightly older than her (and that relationship is strained, as you might imagine, because of the recent investigation into her possibly being Anna). She has no pictures of her at all as a child and does not have any means of obtaining any from other family members.

iNTERESTEDWOMAN
03-30-2007, 12:25 PM
C has no contact with her family except for limited contact with the one sister who is slightly older than her (and that relationship is strained, as you might imagine, because of the recent investigation into her possibly being Anna). She has no pictures of her at all as a child and does not have any means of obtaining any from other family members.


That's too bad. Poor girl, she's been through a lot.

Annasmom
03-30-2007, 03:04 PM
I just had a long phone conversation with a friend of Annasbro who was a kid in Synanon about 40 years ago. He went mostly to their West Oakland facility at 12th and Clay, where he said children were largely unsupervised, but later went several times to a warehouse facility on Lombard Street in San Francisco, near the Embarcadero, where again he said the children's scene was rather chaotic and unattended. Synanon bought the Dutch Paint Boy building on Potrero Hill after he left the group, some time in the 70s, and he believes the picture of the child who resembles Anna must have been taken here. This building was on Kansas Street between 22nd and 23rd Street. He mentioned the later years of Synanon which had to do with assets and internal conflicts, but said he was not involved with the group at that time. I found this very valuable information, and I was delighted to be back in touch with this family friend after so many years. He has made a success of his life. He knew Anna personally, and he said he wished he had more to offer. Sometimes it seems to me that in this search we are casting our net so wide that it brings family, friends and well-wishers together in a way which we could never have predicted. Maybe that is the point of it, after all. Hugs to all of you.

Jodibug
03-30-2007, 03:51 PM
C has no contact with her family except for limited contact with the one sister who is slightly older than her (and that relationship is strained, as you might imagine, because of the recent investigation into her possibly being Anna). She has no pictures of her at all as a child and does not have any means of obtaining any from other family members.


So "C"s family knows of the ongoing investigation then? Do they not want her to investigate?

Really, if she was her mothers bio-child, then you would think that mom could provide some real evidence to back that up.

I would have thought that LE would want to surprise her family with that info, (the investigation) once they knew for sure.

That is awful that she has no one in her "family" to turn to.

Dr. Doogie
03-30-2007, 04:38 PM
So "C"s family knows of the ongoing investigation then? Do they not want her to investigate?

Really, if she was her mothers bio-child, then you would think that mom could provide some real evidence to back that up.

I would have thought that LE would want to surprise her family with that info, (the investigation) once they knew for sure.

That is awful that she has no one in her "family" to turn to.

The emotional distance between C and her family is one of the crucial factors in C's willingness to believe that she could be Anna. Her mother has insisted that C is her biological child, but some of her siblings (when they were children) have told her that she is adopted. It seems odd that a family that already has several children would adopt a child (unless, of course, that child was a more distant relative where the parents could not care for her. But it seems like when the issue was raised at a later date, the adoptee would be told the truth.).

Concerning any possible criminal charges if C is Anna: we know absolutely nothing of what may have occured that would bring Anna into the possesion of another family and the next step after any confirmation of C's identity would be to determine those series of events. It is quite possible that if C is Anna, her family may be innocent victims of a fraud and not culpable of any wrongdoing (i.e. a friend or family member visits C's family and asks that they look after her "daughter" for her. The family innocently agrees to take in a girl that they had no idea was abducted.) This is definitely something that LE would examine if they determine that C is Anna, but until that determination is made, they are not looking into C's history.

Dr. Doogie
03-30-2007, 04:42 PM
I just had a long phone conversation with a friend of Annasbro who was a kid in Synanon about 40 years ago. He went mostly to their West Oakland facility at 12th and Clay, where he said children were largely unsupervised, but later went several times to a warehouse facility on Lombard Street in San Francisco, near the Embarcadero, where again he said the children's scene was rather chaotic and unattended. Synanon bought the Dutch Paint Boy building on Potrero Hill after he left the group, some time in the 70s, and he believes the picture of the child who resembles Anna must have been taken here. This building was on Kansas Street between 22nd and 23rd Street. He mentioned the later years of Synanon which had to do with assets and internal conflicts, but said he was not involved with the group at that time. I found this very valuable information, and I was delighted to be back in touch with this family friend after so many years. He has made a success of his life. He knew Anna personally, and he said he wished he had more to offer. Sometimes it seems to me that in this search we are casting our net so wide that it brings family, friends and well-wishers together in a way which we could never have predicted. Maybe that is the point of it, after all. Hugs to all of you.

Annasmom: Was this friend involved with Synanon in the 1973-1975 era? And do I know him? (You can email me a name if so.) Thanks!

Cubby
03-30-2007, 06:21 PM
I suspect that Margaret Kukoda is her real name - it was the name that she faced legal charges under in the early 1950's which also referenced her military career.


What military records are available? Wouldn't those list at least her parents name or some other family information? Also, Anna'smom thought MK's death cert was in the BFH was there any family information on that? I wonder if Margaret was in contact with her family during her years with GB and how much her family would know about him.

Dr. Doogie
03-30-2007, 06:44 PM
What military records are available? Wouldn't those list at least her parents name or some other family information?

The only military records that are available to the public are draft records (which would only cover men from this time frame). Because the whole link of Brody and Margaret to Anna's disappearance is speculation, there would not be any evidence to justify a warrant to gain this info.

Also, Anna'smom thought MK's death cert was in the BFH was there any family information on that?

The DC was definitely in the BFH, but it did not contain any info about her family. However, through genealogical sites, we know her siblings names and where they lived in 1930. Based on that, we can track down her descendants.

I wonder if Margaret was in contact with her family during her years with GB and how much her family would know about him.

We are looking into that possibility.

WholeLottaRosie
03-30-2007, 07:27 PM
You might check with an attorney in California but I believe that any statutes of limitations on kidnapping and fraud expired long ago. The iffy part might be if they count it from when the crime was discovered (ie by the victim). More than likely whoever did this gets a pass for the time passing.

MTCW

Annasmom
03-30-2007, 09:09 PM
You might check with an attorney in California but I believe that any statutes of limitations on kidnapping and fraud expired long ago. The iffy part might be if they count it from when the crime was discovered (ie by the victim). More than likely whoever did this gets a pass for the time passing.

MTCW
There is no statute of limitations on kidnapping.

skywatchn
04-01-2007, 04:53 AM
I was looking for information about Midget Wolgast and found this photo and information. I know that at one time we looked at Bobby Wolgast but Midget Wolgast was born Joseph Robert Loscalzo.

Look at this info and then look at the writing on the photo and compare the " NY" under national to the NY in the word Eternity on George Brody's photo that he signed. They look somewhat the same.

Midget Wolgast fought in several places including Philadelphia and Oakland, CA.

Also in some of his photos his ears are different appearing that he may have had surgery to remove extra skin.

I see it says he died 10-19-1955. Does anyone agree that the letters look alike?

Here is the link to view:
http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/boxing/wolgast-midget.htm

Some photos here:
http://www.phillyboxinghistory.com/galleries/gallery_wolgast_midget.htm

WholeLottaRosie
04-01-2007, 10:12 PM
There is no statute of limitations on kidnapping.

Thanks, I wasn't sure about that.

Annasmom
04-01-2007, 10:24 PM
I was looking for information about Midget Wolgast and found this photo and information. I know that at one time we looked at Bobby Wolgast but Midget Wolgast was born Joseph Robert Loscalzo/
Look at this info and then look at the writing on the photo and compare the " NY" under national to the NY in the word Eternity on George Brody's photo that he signed. They look somewhat the same.
Midget Wolgast fought in several places including Philadelphia and Oakland, CA.
Also in some of his photos his ears are different appearing that he may have had surgery to remove extra skin.
I see it says he died 10-19-1955. Does anyone agree that the letters look alike?
Here is the link to view:
http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/boxing/wolgast-midget.htm
Some photos here:
http://www.phillyboxinghistory.com/galleries/gallery_wolgast_midget.htm
It seems to me that we looked at Midget Wolgast before. I agree that the letters look somewhat the same, but I'm not sure what the connection might be, since we can place George Brody in San Francisco for many years after the time this boxer died.

Annasmom
04-01-2007, 10:26 PM
Thanks, I wasn't sure about that.

Medusa, I didn't mean to sound snippy. It's just that you'd hate to think of someone getting away with something like stealing a child from her family. Thanks for your thoughts and your input.

smile22
04-01-2007, 11:07 PM
I was looking for information about Midget Wolgast and found this photo and information. I know that at one time we looked at Bobby Wolgast but Midget Wolgast was born Joseph Robert Loscalzo.

Look at this info and then look at the writing on the photo and compare the " NY" under national to the NY in the word Eternity on George Brody's photo that he signed. They look somewhat the same.

Midget Wolgast fought in several places including Philadelphia and Oakland, CA.

Also in some of his photos his ears are different appearing that he may have had surgery to remove extra skin.

I see it says he died 10-19-1955. Does anyone agree that the letters look alike?

Here is the link to view:
http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/boxing/wolgast-midget.htm

Some photos here:
http://www.phillyboxinghistory.com/galleries/gallery_wolgast_midget.htm


in the second set of pictures i pictured this guy with brodys hair and his glasses and i felt they could be one and the same we should look up more info on this guy

mfmangel1
04-02-2007, 07:11 AM
C has no contact with her family except for limited contact with the one sister who is slightly older than her (and that relationship is strained, as you might imagine, because of the recent investigation into her possibly being Anna). She has no pictures of her at all as a child and does not have any means of obtaining any from other family members.

Is it possible C could contact the schools she attended to see if they kept copies of the group class photos through the years or perhaps they took individual photos. Maybe even year books or year books from her teen years that might be able to be age progressed with Anna? How about any childhood friends that she attended birthday parties with or went on trips with? Was she in brownies, girl scouts, ballet, etc...There have got to be pictures of her from outside sources.

BTW, I am sick from eating too many girl scout cookies! They are so good!

iNTERESTEDWOMAN
04-02-2007, 10:59 AM
Is it possible C could contact the schools she attended to see if they kept copies of the group class photos through the years or perhaps they took individual photos. Maybe even year books or year books from her teen years that might be able to be age progressed with Anna? How about any childhood friends that she attended birthday parties with or went on trips with? Was she in brownies, girl scouts, ballet, etc...There have got to be pictures of her from outside sources.

BTW, I am sick from eating too many girl scout cookies! They are so good!


I too wondered about this. I know that the high school I attended in the early 80's has every year book for the Sr. high and Jr. High school since they started offering them. They also have most years at 2 of the local libraries. My son's school has copies of year books that has their Grandmothers pictures in it. (And that's a long time ago!!LOL)

Life Touch is the oldest and most popular school portrait company in the US. I just sent an e-mail requesting how long records are kept. She can probably order her old pictures very easily through the company website.

Even if a family does not order the pictures, they still take one of each child. This company also works with the NCMEC

Shadow205
04-02-2007, 11:12 AM
I am anxious to see if the company keeps records of all of their portraits taken in schools and for how long. Let's keep our fingers crossed that they have a picture of "C" as a young child. I think this is a good drirection to be looking in. There has to be a childhood picture of her somewhere. I would look toward chilrdhood friends also for pictures of birthday parties and other events.
I know we discussed this all before but I think it worth bringing up again.

PaulaKay
04-02-2007, 02:51 PM
I worked for Life Touch for 3 years. That's the company that own the portrait studios in the JCPenney stores and many Target stores. They will definitely help if they can.

iNTERESTEDWOMAN
04-03-2007, 08:56 AM
LifeTouch contacted me via e-mail this morning. It sounds like "C" is in luck, if her school actually used LifeTouch as their school photographers. (Most do, with the exception of Senior Pictures) Of course I have no way of knowing where she even went to school.

http://schoolportraits.lifetouch.com/
Click on reorder info. and then a link for "local Lifetouch office". Enter state, and city, and you will receive the local regional office for the area. She needs to contact the local office for her school to receive reprints.

The reply I received didn't say exactly how long information is kept, but it seemed to indicate that portraits from the 70's would be obtainable. I realize "C" does not have a computer, but if one of you who talk to her could get her the info, she should be able to show you what she looked like in 1st grade by next week.

RobinH
04-03-2007, 10:34 AM
LifeTouch contacted me via e-mail this morning. It sounds like "C" is in luck, if her school actually used LifeTouch as their school photographers. (Most do, with the exception of Senior Pictures) Of course I have no way of knowing where she even went to school.

http://schoolportraits.lifetouch.com/
Click on reorder info. and then a link for "local Lifetouch office". Enter state, and city, and you will receive the local regional office for the area. She needs to contact the local office for her school to receive reprints.

The reply I received didn't say exactly how long information is kept, but it seemed to indicate that portraits from the 70's would be obtainable. I realize "C" does not have a computer, but if one of you who talk to her could get her the info, she should be able to show you what she looked like in 1st grade by next week.

I followed the link, and her elementary school is not listed. I have written down the phone number and will ask C if she will call them.

iNTERESTEDWOMAN
04-03-2007, 11:18 AM
I followed the link, and her elementary school is not listed. I have written down the phone number and will ask C if she will call them.


Oh NO! Wouldn't you know it...one of the few schools that don't use this company is HERS! :banghead:

(But maybe they used to. The Company is 70 years old)

smile22
04-03-2007, 12:13 PM
what about calling the school directly and finding out what photo places they used over the years i am sure they would have all that info for you

iNTERESTEDWOMAN
04-03-2007, 12:18 PM
I was looking around on Ancestry.com and did see some census records for a George Brody that I don't recall seeing discussed here.

There is a George and Margaret Brody listed on the 1920 census living in Philadelphia PA. The problem is it says George was born in 1890, making him 91 when he died. (Though my Father in law is that old and doesn't look a day over 70..LOL)

Anyway, this same couple is then listed in the 1930 Census as living in San Francisco, CA. I'm positive it's the same people, for all of the info is the same such as ages, birth place, mother & fathers birth place ect. In 1920 This George was a plumber in a shipyard, and Margaret worked in a chocolate factory. In 1930 George was a merchant at a Hardware store, (no job listed for wife). Their address was listed as 20th Avenue SF CA.

I can not find death records for either of them, so they either died by 1940 (Rather a young age)or they divorced & or she changed her last name...I think I found Margarets record before they where married & her last name might have been Mount, though I can't find any thing prior for George with the same birth year. I doubt this Margret is Kukoda because her birth year is 1895 and according to that newspaper pic of Kudoda, she looks too young to be 50 yrs old in that picture. Also interesting to note Margaret Brody was 35 in 1930 and there where still no children listed for them, possibly she couldn't have children?

Who else thinks it's suspicious that Kukoda died on her 50th birthday to the day. Did Anna's Mom ever meet her? What years did Brody & her live together? Are there confirmed records to prove this fact? Where did they live? In the same hotel as Waters & Brody? Is the Nurse in the newspaper for sure Brodys Marg. K.? I remember reading that her nickname was mary Kay, because of her involvement in the cosmetic company, I find that odd, considering the company wasn't founded until late 1963, and was based in TX. It took a few years before the company really took off. (But when it did, it was big). I give her 2 years TOPS with the company.

Is it possible for Brody to have changed his name prior to 1920? Could Margaret have left him when he took up with kukoda.

I read somewhere that Someone found Kukoda's family in some census records, was this indeed verified to be her correct and true family?

Dr. Doogie
04-03-2007, 01:55 PM
..There is a George and Margaret Brody listed on the 1920 census living in Philadelphia PA. ...Anyway, this same couple is then listed in the 1930 Census as living in San Francisco, CA. I'm positive it's the same people, for all of the info is the same such as ages, birth place, mother & fathers birth place ect. ...

Very interesting....

I will post in detail about this later today.

Annasmom
04-03-2007, 07:11 PM
Who else thinks it's suspicious that Kukoda died on her 50th birthday to the day. Did Anna's Mom ever meet her? What years did Brody & her live together? Are there confirmed records to prove this fact? Where did they live? In the same hotel as Waters & Brody? Is the Nurse in the newspaper for sure Brodys Marg. K.? I remember reading that her nickname was mary Kay, because of her involvement in the cosmetic company, I find that odd, considering the company wasn't founded until late 1963, and was based in TX. It took a few years before the company really took off. (But when it did, it was big). I give her 2 years TOPS with the company.

I can answer a few of your questions. First, I didn't realize that Margaret died on her birthday, but considering she was in a coma, in a public facility, I think it is probably more odd than suspicious (though Brody was very secretive about giving her stethoscope--which I still have--to GW). Margaret and Brody did live together, according to a former landlord with whom we had a mutual acquaintance. I think the house or apartment was in the Noe Valley in San Francisco, quite a way from 20th Avenue, though I am not sure of that. We got the information about the Margaret who was in the newspaper from the state nursing license board, and I believe I checked the birthdate at the time.

Dr. Doogie
04-03-2007, 07:28 PM
If this is our Brody, then the Margaret who was his wife could not be Kukoda - she was definitely younger than the wife. If this is the same GB, then he must have had two different Margarets in his life.

I will have to research it again, but I believe that zabasearch shows a very old George Brody living in San Francisco currently. I will have to see if his listed age corresponds with this GB's birthdate. As most of you probably know, zaba will show people long after they have passed away, thus some really wild ages appear on the site. If this GB is the one that Interestedwoman mentions, then it is not our GB. However, the link between this GB and Philadelphia is very intriguing - it is the first such person who ties back to PA.

I suspect that the Mary Kay nickname was not related to the Mary Kay Cosmetics (though it is speculated that it might in the search notes in the BFH). Margaret Kukoda had an alias of Mary Kay (Margaret K. / Mary K.) and George Brody was known as George Bee (George B.). I just don't think that they were very imaginative with their aliases - it was just their first names with a spelled-out version of their last initials.

Annasbro
04-05-2007, 04:32 PM
Here are a couple of shots of the farm from the air. I captured them from Google Earth

171

172

iNTERESTEDWOMAN
04-05-2007, 05:46 PM
I forgot to mention that in the 1930 census records, there were middle initials for both George (N.) Brody b. 1890 and Margaret (V.) Brody b.1895. Like I said earlier I do not believe this Margaret is MK, but George may be "the" George. He was a merchant in a hardware store. I wrote to Cole Hardware Store today which was established in the 1920 in SF. Rick Karp the owner of the small local chain wrote back and said his father bought the original store in 1959 from the Stanzel Brothers. He did not know of Brody, so it wasn't that one...LOL How many Hardware stores were in SF in the 1920-1930's? Couldn't be that many could it?

Also I continue to search for death records of these two people and have come up with zip. It's like they vanished, or became paranoid. :eek:
Anyone know where I could search for missing persons from the 1930's (As if anyone reported them missing).

MAybe this is "the" Brody, and when his wife died, he played a Waters and left out all the important stuff on her death certificate. I know a plumber & a salesman is a far cry from a boxer and a politician, but you just never know. :)

Dr. Doogie
04-05-2007, 05:52 PM
...LOL How many Hardware stores were in SF in the 1920-1930's? Couldn't be that many could it?...

More than you could dream of... :eek:

iNTERESTEDWOMAN
04-05-2007, 06:36 PM
You ready for my latest theory? Okay, here it goes. This is it for today. George (age 30) & Margaret Brody (age 25) in PA in the 1920's could not have a child. They abduct a little girl born in 1917. They take her to SF not to get caught. They re-name her Margaret and say she's a niece, (or something) and they are caring for her, but don't have to claim her as a dependant. Wife dies and he somehow alters her death certificate...(or she leaves him because he's treating MK like more of a "lover" and chages her name, get re-married... )George is devastated after the loss of his "abducted -daughter/lover" and moves in on Waters, knowing he has a young baby girl. Says she's a reincarnation of his beloved Margaret. Talks Waters into taking her (The Plan) but Anna does not respond to his, quote: "Instantaneous Everlasting Attraction". He feels betrayed at her non-compliance, and finds her a new family. And the rest is anyone's guess...hopefully "C", but I have my theories on that as well.

Dr. Doogie
04-05-2007, 07:17 PM
Well, that is one angle that I had not considered. The only immediate flaw that I can think of is that there appears to be paperwork for a legitimate Margaret Kukoda from PA. However... there is another Margaret Kukoda who continued to live in PA also. This is total speculation, but it is conceivable that the SF MK was a case of stolen identity from the PA MK.

Gawd, this can get confusing! :confused:

Dr. Doogie
04-05-2007, 07:21 PM
Another couple of quick thoughts about the above theory: the transfer to another family would have had to have occured almost immediately since the two Georges must have figured that they would be suspects in Anna's disappearance, and the series of events required to implement this plan would have had to have taken almost six years to come to fruitition (August 1967 until January 1973) which seems unlikely.

Annasmom
04-05-2007, 07:42 PM
Another couple of quick thoughts about the above theory: the transfer to another family would have had to have occured almost immediately since the two Georges must have figured that they would be suspects in Anna's disappearance, and the series of events required to implement this plan would have had to have taken almost six years to come to fruitition (August 1967 until January 1973) which seems unlikely.Besides which, there was no baby girl when the two Georges met. GB's initial cultivation of GW was in order to get personalized medical care for Margaret; later it became a guru-student relationship and ultimately a financial support issue.

Dr. Doogie
04-05-2007, 07:46 PM
Besides which, there was no baby girl when the two Georges met. GB's initial cultivation of GW was in order to get personalized medical care for Margaret; later it became a guru-student relationship and ultimately a financial support issue.

That is true - Anna was not born in August of 1967 when Margaret died.

Annasmom
04-05-2007, 07:48 PM
You ready for my latest theory? Okay, here it goes. This is it for today. George (age 30) & Margaret Brody (age 25) in PA in the 1920's could not have a child. They abduct a little girl born in 1917. They take her to SF not to get caught. They re-name her Margaret and say she's a niece, (or something) and they are caring for her, but don't have to claim her as a dependant. Wife dies and he somehow alters her death certificate...(or she leaves him because he's treating MK like more of a "lover" and chages her name, get re-married... )George is devastated after the loss of his "abducted -daughter/lover" and moves in on Waters, knowing he has a young baby girl. Says she's a reincarnation of his beloved Margaret. Talks Waters into taking her (The Plan) but Anna does not respond to his, quote: "Instantaneous Everlasting Attraction". He feels betrayed at her non-compliance, and finds her a new family. And the rest is anyone's guess...hopefully "C", but I have my theories on that as well. I can't really follow this line of thinking. There was no third person on the scene when George and Margaret were renting the apartment from Matt in the Noe Valley. Waters had no baby girl when the two Georges met. The statement about "reincarnation" was a bare mention and was made when Anna was several months old (but I was already pregnant when Margaret Kukoda died, and even people who believe in reincarnation don't claim that one soul can inhabit two bodies at once.) GB showed very little interest in Anna, apart from his usual power trip of trying to influence her life and the lives of those in her family.

WholeLottaRosie
04-05-2007, 08:31 PM
Medusa, I didn't mean to sound snippy. It's just that you'd hate to think of someone getting away with something like stealing a child from her family. Thanks for your thoughts and your input.

Oh no,I didn't think you sounded snippy at all. I am glad to know it as someone told me not long ago there was a stat of lim on EVERYTHING but murder and that is just so wrong. I was glad to learn I had been told incorrectly on that! Even if I don't post much, you, your family and Anna are always in my prayers. I hope that there is a resolution soon!!

iNTERESTEDWOMAN
04-05-2007, 10:15 PM
I can't really follow this line of thinking. There was no third person on the scene when George and Margaret were renting the apartment from Matt in the Noe Valley.

This is because she (MB) is already gone by then


Waters had no baby girl when the two Georges met.

But he knew there was about to be a new baby


The statement about "reincarnation" was a bare mention and was made when Anna was several months old (but I was already pregnant when Margaret Kukoda died, and even people who believe in reincarnation don't claim that one soul can inhabit two bodies at once.)

Brody was obviously crazy, If he said Anna was a reincarnation at any time, he had his own theory on reincarnation

GB showed very little interest in Anna, apart from his usual power trip of trying to influence her life and the lives of those in her family.[/quote]

True...or is it?

iNTERESTEDWOMAN
04-05-2007, 10:35 PM
Another couple of quick thoughts about the above theory: the transfer to another family would have had to have occured almost immediately since the two Georges must have figured that they would be suspects in Anna's disappearance, and the series of events required to implement this plan would have had to have taken almost six years to come to fruitition (August 1967 until January 1973) which seems unlikely.

I don't think it was an instant thing. First he had to take Waters away from his wife, then take the child away from the wife.

Didn't Brody & Waters leave the area for several days a week or so after Annas dissaperance? They also had another room rented somewhere? They could have kept her in the "other room" for several days. And from what has been posted, they never were suspects. LE never really gave them a second thought. Joe Ford was the only one who ever really investigated them...

Maybe Waters was a hard sell on the abduction. It took Brody a lot of brain washing.

RobinH
04-09-2007, 12:50 PM
Is it possible C could contact the schools she attended to see if they kept copies of the group class photos through the years or perhaps they took individual photos. Maybe even year books or year books from her teen years that might be able to be age progressed with Anna? How about any childhood friends that she attended birthday parties with or went on trips with? Was she in brownies, girl scouts, ballet, etc...There have got to be pictures of her from outside sources.

BTW, I am sick from eating too many girl scout cookies! They are so good!

Message:
I am trying to locate an elementary school photo for my friend who had 2 house fires when she was younger and has no pictures of herself. I am looking for photos of (C's Name) who may have attended (School Name) in the years 1973 through 1978 and would have been in K-5th grade at the time. Any help would be greatly appreciated
Answer:
Thank you for contacting us. Your request is being forwarded to your local Lifetouch office. The local office will be in contact with you.
Message:
Im sorry, we only hold our negatives for one year!
My next email to them:
Do you keep class pictures or yearbooks longer? Where might I be able to find a photo of her during her school years?

Reply:
No, I am sorry!

Are there any other suggestions? I really don't know where else to turn for photos of her.

Dr. Doogie
04-09-2007, 01:08 PM
Message:
I am trying to locate an elementary school photo for my friend who had 2 house fires when she was younger and has no pictures of herself. I am looking for photos of (C's Name) who may have attended (School Name) in the years 1973 through 1978 and would have been in K-5th grade at the time. Any help would be greatly appreciated
Answer:
Thank you for contacting us. Your request is being forwarded to your local Lifetouch office. The local office will be in contact with you.
Message:
Im sorry, we only hold our negatives for one year!
My next email to them:
Do you keep class pictures or yearbooks longer? Where might I be able to find a photo of her during her school years?

Reply:
No, I am sorry!

Are there any other suggestions? I really don't know where else to turn for photos of her.


I wonder if the school itself maintains a record of class photos? In the Zodiac Killer case, one of the main suspects was a teacher in the Sonora, CA area in the mid-sixties and the researchers there were able to locate a class photo (including the teacher/suspect) in the schools archives.

RobinH
04-09-2007, 01:14 PM
I wonder if the school itself maintains a record of class photos? In the Zodiac Killer case, one of the main suspects was a teacher in the Sonora, CA area in the mid-sixties and the researchers there were able to locate a class photo (including the teacher/suspect) in the schools archives.

Checking back into prior posts, this is an avenue that I researched extensively awhile back, including creating an account with friendsters, contacting all the schools that she may have attended, and exhausting all potential family that I know of. All of the schools informed me that they do not keep photos, but send them with her file to the next school, and did not even have class books. When I got to the school that she last attended, I was told that all of those photos were destroyed, and all they kept was a transcript of her grades.

okietexan
04-09-2007, 07:22 PM
I wonder if the school itself maintains a record of class photos? In the Zodiac Killer case, one of the main suspects was a teacher in the Sonora, CA area in the mid-sixties and the researchers there were able to locate a class photo (including the teacher/suspect) in the schools archives.


I wonder if "C" remembers any of her elementary teacher's names? I taught for many years, and I have every class photo ever taken of my classes. If there was a special teacher that maybe she could locate, that teacher might have photos. I know where I taught, teachers received their class picture free every year. Just a thought.

Dr. Doogie
04-09-2007, 08:59 PM
Unfortunately, her memory of events (such as school or teacher's names) is very sketchy. It is this very lack of memories, however, that makes "C" such a viable candidate for being Anna.

Just in the last couple of days, she was asked if she has any memories about a certain item. Her first response was no, then she recalled a memory of that item - including unique details that have never been mentioned here or in Annasmom's manuscript (sorry, I am being purposely vague here).

Without engaging in vulgar speculation as to "why", it is clear that a certain period of time in C's childhood has been blocked out of her memories (even seemingly innocent memories). However, with direct questions concerning specifics, often some of those details have resurfaced. Some point to her being Anna, some do not correspond with anything that we can relate to Anna.

We are trying to be respectful of C's "personal space" (those things that she chooses to remember and those that she chooses to forget), but at the same time, seek to find information that will be helpful in evaluating the possible match. C has shown great courage in bringing those memories to the surface that something has caused to be submerged. I am grateful that C has been willing to explore those areas of missing memories for us.

iNTERESTEDWOMAN
04-09-2007, 09:48 PM
... The only immediate flaw that I can think of is that there appears to be paperwork for a legitimate Margaret Kukoda from PA... :confused:


Is this paperwork the census records from 1930 or something from the Box? Is there anything other than that Census record . (In which the birth dates don't match up) that places Brody's MK in PA?

Gina_M
04-10-2007, 07:22 AM
1) has anyone near UCLA looked into the umpteen boxes available from synanon? since the picture in question is under "school: I might start with that box..... if I were near LA. I noticed n

GinaM has volunteered to do this research. She said she has been very busy but will get to it soon. Maybe someone should put together a list of things for her to look for when she goes. You're right Doogie, it was over in the Rose thread. Someof the details/information in these 2 threads are starting to run together in my mind:waitasec:

Hi Shadow, and everyone,

Finally I have some free time and I can get back to Anna's case! I don't know much about Synanon, other than what I've gleaned in the posts I've skimmed through - there is a connection to Rose Cole, a possible connection to Anna, and a bunch of their info is archived at the UCLA library? If someone could give me a summary of pertinent info or point me in the right direction that would be great. I live about an hour's drive from L.A. so I will definitely head up there and check it out.

ETA: Found this link:

http://content.cdlib.org/view?docId=tf9k4009h9&query=rose&brand=default&submit.x=8&submit.y=22

Synanon Foundation Records, ca. 1956-1987
564 boxes (282 linear ft.)
118 cartons (59 linear ft.)
32 boxes
Stored off-site at SRLF. Advance notice is required for access to the collection. Please contact the UCLA Library, Department of Special Collections Reference Desk for paging information.

Whoa...that's a lot of boxes! And it looks like I have to call in advance and make an appointment. Julessleuther, or anyone else who'd like to volunteer, any help would be appreciated ;)

Cubby
04-10-2007, 07:26 AM
Just in the last couple of days, she was asked if she has any memories about a certain item. Her first response was no, then she recalled a memory of that item - including unique details that have never been mentioned here or in Annasmom's manuscript (sorry, I am being purposely vague here).



This sounds very positive. Of course the details are not our business, and like any good investigation should not be shared publically where anyone has access to viewing those details. Kudos to RobinH and C for all their help with this.

As for more ideas about finding childhood pictures. The idea of possibly locating former teachers is excellent. what about former classmates? Especially one's where C may have attened birthday parties. Was she ever in any community activities which might have pictures? Maybe the local newspaper to inquire if they have any old pictures in their archives from any school activities. The library might have some. Our library keeps copies of HS yearbooks. I think our local police station also has some copies as well. Was C ever in Brownies or Camp Fire girls, any kind of sports which the grade school offered? Anything along those lines?

On another note, does Annasmom happen to have an old clear picture including Anna's ears? If we ( or she ) could obtain a clear picture of the same ear from C comparison might help. Especially since ears are so unique as we've discussed. Sure, C might think we are off our rocker requesting that info...... ( I can only imagine ) but it would help. I fully believe a picture like this would help narrow things prior to any DNA testing.

Gina_M
04-10-2007, 08:40 AM
It looks as though one may need a UCLA library card to view the Synanon collection.

http://www.library.ucla.edu/libraries/special/scweb/

For external users, who are not connected to UCLA, and are not students or teachers at any other school in CA, the charge for a library card is $100 per year. At least that's my interpretation of the info.

Next step: find someone who already has a UCLA library card!

Annasmom
04-10-2007, 12:39 PM
On another note, does Annasmom happen to have an old clear picture including Anna's ears? If we ( or she ) could obtain a clear picture of the same ear from C comparison might help. Especially since ears are so unique as we've discussed. Sure, C might think we are off our rocker requesting that info...... ( I can only imagine ) but it would help. I fully believe a picture like this would help narrow things prior to any DNA testing. Cubby, our contact with C has sent us clear pictures of her ears, and we have compared them with clear pictures of Anna's ears. They are similar. Do you recall where in the Forum we were talking about ear comparisons? I remember the discussion, but not where it occurred.

InterestedNHelping
04-10-2007, 12:49 PM
GinaM, just a thought here...I once needed an antique book that only resided in a library in Mississippi, and I am in Calif...I filed a request that it could be sent to my library for check out, then they return it to it's place of origin. It might save the money if one library gets it from another. Is that possible with this collection? Some things cannot be loaned out, but this might work for you if it can be loaned to your library. Good luck!

Dr. Doogie
04-10-2007, 05:08 PM
Just in the last couple of days, (C) was asked if she has any memories about a certain item. Her first response was no, then she recalled a memory of that item - including unique details that have never been mentioned here or in Annasmom's manuscript (sorry, I am being purposely vague here).

Today, C was asked for additional details about this item and came up with further details that match what Anna would have remembered.

This is getting real exciting...

:woohoo:

Cubby
04-10-2007, 05:29 PM
Cubby, our contact with C has sent us clear pictures of her ears, and we have compared them with clear pictures of Anna's ears. They are similar. Do you recall where in the Forum we were talking about ear comparisons? I remember the discussion, but not where it occurred.


I recall the ears being discussed twice. Most recently within this thread starting with post #57. I can't recall where the previous discussion was posted. I thought it was around the two wolgast boxers, but couldn't find it there.....

If it's not too much to ask, is it possible to post the ear pics? If no, I understand.

okietexan
04-10-2007, 09:15 PM
Today, C was asked for additional details about this item and came up with further details that match what Anna would have remembered.

This is getting real exciting...



:woohoo:

Oh my! That IS exciting! I wish only the best for "C" as she continues on this journey!

Cubby
04-10-2007, 09:52 PM
It looks as though one may need a UCLA library card to view the Synanon collection.

http://www.library.ucla.edu/libraries/special/scweb/

For external users, who are not connected to UCLA, and are not students or teachers at any other school in CA, the charge for a library card is $100 per year. At least that's my interpretation of the info.

Next step: find someone who already has a UCLA library card!

or you might write the UCLA library with your reasons for wishing to search the files. Maybe they will choose to waive the fee for the cause.

Julessleuther
04-11-2007, 03:27 AM
It looks as though one may need a UCLA library card to view the Synanon collection.

http://www.library.ucla.edu/libraries/special/scweb/

For external users, who are not connected to UCLA, and are not students or teachers at any other school in CA, the charge for a library card is $100 per year. At least that's my interpretation of the info.

Next step: find someone who already has a UCLA library card!

I, unfortunately, do not have a UCLA card. Sorry!

MagicRose99
04-11-2007, 09:37 AM
Gina's statement reads in part - "students or teachers at any other school in CA" which means all you need is a student with a school ID to get you in.

Jodibug
04-11-2007, 10:55 AM
Today, C was asked for additional details about this item and came up with further details that match what Anna would have remembered.

This is getting real exciting...

:woohoo:



:woohoo:

Wow. Annasmom, I can't imagine what you must be feeling! I am praying for you!

What an incredibly exciting and yet scary time for C! Please let her know I am thinking about her!

I just hope everything works out for all of those involved.

Shadow205
04-11-2007, 06:18 PM
Today, C was asked for additional details about this item and came up with further details that match what Anna would have remembered.

This is getting real exciting...

:woohoo:

I have been out of town and just returned. Sounds like something good is happening. How wonderful to think that we could be so close. My prayers are with you AnnasMom,"C",Doogie, Annasbro, and everyone else. This is "nail biting" time!

WholeLottaRosie
04-11-2007, 06:52 PM
I have been out of town and just returned. Sounds like something good is happening. How wonderful to think that we could be so close. My prayers are with you AnnasMom,"C",Doogie, Annasbro, and everyone else. This is "nail biting" time!

Oh no kidding. how exciting. Can't wait to hear more.

Dr. Doogie
04-11-2007, 07:09 PM
It may be that these memories that are being recovered that are matching up with Anna's history are mere coincidences, but each one adds to the possibility that C is Anna. And it should be stated that these details are things that have not been published either here or in the "Searching for Anna" manuscript. One of the memories corresponds to an event that even Annasmom did not recall, but later found a reference to it in her personal diary.

In the last few months, I have moved from a position that C probably was not Anna to C could be Anna. In the last couple of days, I have come to conclude that C probably is Anna.

Annasmom and I have been joking recently that it seems that God's plan in this whole adventure is that we had to reunite a certain number of adoptees to their families and right so many wrongs before He would provide is an answer about Anna. I related it to the idea of King Arthur travelling the countryside and slaying dragons on his search for the Holy Grail. I pray that the good deeds that we have all accomplished here is sufficient to warrant us finding the truth. We should have an answer sometime soon.

Shadow205
04-11-2007, 07:35 PM
"In the last couple of days, I have come to conclude that C probably is Anna. "

:dance: :dance: :dance: I know that you can not share certain things in the forum at this time and that is fine. To hear you say the above, I can barely contain my excitement.

I want to hug everyone!

iNTERESTEDWOMAN
04-11-2007, 07:50 PM
This is great news. I really hope this is the real deal, for everyone's sake. So, if C turns out to be Anna, will we see it on the National News? Will Annasmom and C...or should I say Anna...go public?

Dr. Doogie
04-11-2007, 07:53 PM
"In the last couple of days, I have come to conclude that C probably is Anna. "...

Keep in mind, I could be completely wrong. We have been plagued by discoveries that "could not be coincidence", only to find out that they were just that - coincidences.

I try to remain pragmatic about the possibilities, but these most recent recollections of C have me very excited. I know that they have "spooked" C herself and she has asked for a break from any more questions for the time being which we are respecting. When she has had time to process the meaning of the most recent revelations and is comfortable in continuing, we will explore those memories in further detail.

LisainWV
04-11-2007, 07:53 PM
Don't post much here, but I stop in everyday for updates. Can't believe you supersleuths are possibly so close.

It sounds as though C has had a tough childhood and life. If she is Anna, I hope the fact that she was loved by her family helps heal those wounds. To know your family never gave up looking for you has to soothe the soul.

If she isn't Anna, I hope her "relationship" with Annasmom and everyone involved makes a positive mark on her life.

Crossing everything I possibly can for good luck...........

Dr. Doogie
04-11-2007, 08:02 PM
This is great news. I really hope this is the real deal, for everyone's sake. So, if C turns out to be Anna, will we see it on the National News? Will Annasmom and C...or should I say Anna...go public?

No way am I going on the Springer show! Not if I have to go topless and dance on the pole!

Seriously, lets not get too far ahead of ourselves. Because there is a criminal aspect to this case, anything that occurs would have to be within the parameters of what LE will permit.

I hope that people do not misunderstand what I have posted. I am not saying that C is Anna. I am saying that I believe that C probably is Anna. A definitive answer could be hours or months away. Once we get that definitive answer and LE gives us permission to go public, you people will be the first to know.

Dr. Doogie
04-11-2007, 08:06 PM
...If she isn't Anna, I hope her "relationship" with Annasmom and everyone involved makes a positive mark on her life...

Annasmom and I have commented that if C is not Anna, then Annasmom should adopt her anyway. C is definitely as close a match as we will ever find short of Anna herself.

RobinH
04-11-2007, 08:30 PM
Just for the record.....I am certainly excited about all of the events that have been happening, but terrified to hope that C is Anna, just in case she is not....I describe this as a roller coaster ride, and it is not fun, it is extremely interesting I will say. And also, for the record, C is doing fine, a little confused, and not willing to admit the possibility that she could be Anna, but doing fine none the less. She is anxiously awaiting the results as we all are.

annemc2
04-11-2007, 09:12 PM
Annasmom and I have commented that if C is not Anna, then Annasmom should adopt her anyway. C is definitely as close a match as we will ever find short of Anna herself.


:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

This post made me smile!

laini
04-11-2007, 10:22 PM
This is very exciting! I am wondering, if "C" is Anna, would that likely mean the Georges had nothing to do with her abduction?

Annasmom
04-12-2007, 01:06 AM
This is very exciting! I am wondering, if "C" is Anna, would that likely mean the Georges had nothing to do with her abduction?Hard to say right now, but remember that the woman who claimed (after reading the story in the Half Moon Bay Review) to have seen Anna in 1976 said she (Anna) told her that her father had nothing to do with it.

SherlockJr
04-12-2007, 01:50 AM
Hard to say right now, but remember that the woman who claimed (after reading the story in the Half Moon Bay Review) to have seen Anna in 1976 said she (Anna) told her that her father had nothing to do with it.

According to the tipster, the person(s) who had Anna knew who her father was and where he lived.

Julessleuther
04-12-2007, 03:12 AM
Wow--all that is unfolding is very exciting. I do worry about "C's" emotional stability, whether it turns out she is Anna or not. I am certain this has been very hard on her. Even if she turns out not to be Anna, I think we should all wrap our arms around her for a huge hug, as she obviously has had a difficult life.

Cubby
04-12-2007, 03:47 AM
Right now, I am praying for C. This has to be really difficult for her. Her life has been invaded, turned upside down....... Big hugs to C. My stomach hurts for her.

I too am excited about recent events, although uneasy as Doogie stated, and terrified as Robin stated. Annasmom has had a long time to become adjusted, C is just starting that road. Thankfully she has a hubby to help her along. I pray he is a source of strength for her, as we here are willing to be, yet we are basically strangers in this venture. I hope C knows we are all willing to wait, patiently and be a shoulder or source of strength, even if from a distance. She's an incredibly brave selfless woman for allowing us into her life and persevering as she has.......

Just some thoughts.....

I saw some resemblence between C and Annasmom in a more recent photo that was posted as part of a newspaper article. The one where she and Doogie were putting the flyers on the mailboxes. No the pic wasn't clear, but I did see some resemblence.

As far as the two Georges, my thoughts at this point lead to a combination of a stranger abduction involved with the two. With the medical history, GW had plenty of opportunity for access to others who may have lost a child, been vulnerable, and who knows what kind of story the two could have concocted leading to an abduction.

Also, as doogie stated, it's quite possible, if C is Anna, her parents too may have been innocent victims.

Myself, I am curious about the story behind C's adoption having older siblings. If, and we are still at if, C is anna, how does one explain adopting a child at 5? Surely her older siblings have some information.......

Lastly, If I were in these shoes, which I am not, I would want to know one way or the other and be done with it or move onto the next stage, as difficult as that may be..... I'm confused as to why C and Annasmom can not do a private DNA test in addition to LE's dna testing. Although my knowledge only extends to legal DNA testing in paternity cases basically involving what certain counties accept and what some don't with child support.


Disclosure... I am thinking out loud and by no means, do these questions need to be answered, nor are they any of our business at this point.

natasha-cupcake
04-12-2007, 08:27 AM
I have been watching Annasmom's story since the beginning and feel that we are very close to the end of one huge volume and the beginning of another. I extend my prayers, thoughts, helpful wishes and general good will to all of you, especially "C" which stands for "Courageous" in my book, to you Doogie, "Oh Mighty Super Sleuth of All Sleuths", to you RobinH, "The Great Facilitator", to JoePoke, probably the Sweetest "ex" on the Planet, to each and every one on this board who has ever researched, posted, prayed, or otherwise contributed to this incredible quest. And most of all, to you, "Anna's Mom" because I can't think of any title that you could possible be more proud of, or more deserving of. I am so blessed to be associated with you and every one else here. I can't tell you how much this quest has meant to me on a personal level.

Here's to hoping we are on the home stretch!

InterestedNHelping
04-12-2007, 10:19 AM
You are amazing people! Regardless the outcome, the extraordinary things that all involved here have done, are fabulous to say the least. I too, am so anxious to hear the outcome!
I am also working a very personal case but along the lines of adoption, not abduction. In the course of this, I discovered that someone who found their birthparent also needed counseling help to walk through it all, as well as the support of family. The outside help could have avoided much emotional turmoil if he had received it sooner.
I can see with all the support here that C can be gently and lovingly brought through this process if she is Anna. She is certainly a very beautiful woman (from the pic)

Maybe I should request all of you great sleuthers and kind people to help me find my missing person, after what great work you all did here?
kudos and blessings to all!

Lurker
04-12-2007, 12:35 PM
hello everyone, I've been following this thread for some time now and just got caught up on the recent developments. My fingers are crossed so hard my knuckles are white! All of you are truly amazing and Anna's mom, bro, dad, uncle and Doogie are a true inspiration and the absolute definition of true love! I've got goosebumps just reading the thread and you're all in my thoughts and prayers!

Hoping with all hope that C is Anna and your quest is over but even if she's not, I know you will never stop searching and somehow, somewhere Anna will know that and treasure your devotion!

Annasmom
04-12-2007, 01:17 PM
I have been watching Annasmom's story since the beginning and feel that we are very close to the end of one huge volume and the beginning of another. I extend my prayers, thoughts, helpful wishes and general good will to all of you, especially "C" which stands for "Courageous" in my book, to you Doogie, "Oh Mighty Super Sleuth of All Sleuths", to you RobinH, "The Great Facilitator", to JoePoke, probably the Sweetest "ex" on the Planet, to each and every one on this board who has ever researched, posted, prayed, or otherwise contributed to this incredible quest. And most of all, to you, "Anna's Mom" because I can't think of any title that you could possible be more proud of, or more deserving of. I am so blessed to be associated with you and every one else here. I can't tell you how much this quest has meant to me on a personal level.

Here's to hoping we are on the home stretch! Thank you, blessings, and don't forget SherlockJr, Anna's godmother, who has worked behind the scenes on the Internet and on the phones exclusively on Anna's case (practically full time) to search for Anna.

Annasmom
04-12-2007, 01:24 PM
I saw some resemblance between C and Annasmom in a more recent photo that was posted as part of a newspaper article. The one where she and Doogie were putting the flyers on the mailboxes. Lastly, If I were in these shoes, which I am not, I would want to know one way or the other and be done with it or move onto the next stage, as difficult as that may be..... I'm confused as to why C and Annasmom can not do a private DNA test in addition to LE's dna testing.


Cubby, the resemblance in real life is quite remarkable and has been noted by family members on both sides. LE has specifically enjoined us from conducting private DNA testing and we are cooperating with them; however, political representatives here have now asked that the Department of Justice, which is doing the comparisons, expedite matters as much as possible. The National Center for Missing and Exploited Children has also checked in for a status report. Pray. We'll keep you posted.

Jodibug
04-12-2007, 01:26 PM
LE has specifically enjoined us from conducting private DNA testing and we are cooperating with them; however, political representatives here have now asked that the Department of Justice, which is doing the comparisons, expedite matters as much as possible. The National Center for Missing and Exploited Children has also checked in for a status report.

I am so happy that things are finally moving in the right direction for you. It has taken far too long!

Annasmom
04-12-2007, 01:28 PM
If it's not too much to ask, is it possible to post the ear pics? If no, I understand.
Cubby, sorry about not getting back to you sooner on this (and thanks for the reference to the ear posting.) The feeling is that there's a privacy issue involved in posting the ear pictures and that we would need permission.

SherlockJr
04-12-2007, 01:57 PM
... however, political representatives here have now asked that the Department of Justice, which is doing the comparisons, expedite matters as much as possible. The National Center for Missing and Exploited Children has also checked in for a status report. Pray. We'll keep you posted.

I may be able to find an old cattle prod around here somewhere!

christine2448
04-12-2007, 02:00 PM
I have been watching Annasmom's story since the beginning and feel that we are very close to the end of one huge volume and the beginning of another. I extend my prayers, thoughts, helpful wishes and general good will to all of you, especially "C" which stands for "Courageous" in my book, to you Doogie, "Oh Mighty Super Sleuth of All Sleuths", to you RobinH, "The Great Facilitator", to JoePoke, probably the Sweetest "ex" on the Planet, to each and every one on this board who has ever researched, posted, prayed, or otherwise contributed to this incredible quest. And most of all, to you, "Anna's Mom" because I can't think of any title that you could possible be more proud of, or more deserving of. I am so blessed to be associated with you and every one else here. I can't tell you how much this quest has meant to me on a personal level.

Here's to hoping we are on the home stretch!

What Natasha said :D

Mr. E
04-12-2007, 04:41 PM
Just for the record.....I am certainly excited about all of the events that have been happening, but terrified to hope that C is Anna, just in case she is not....I describe this as a roller coaster ride, and it is not fun, it is extremely interesting I will say. And also, for the record, C is doing fine, a little confused, and not willing to admit the possibility that she could be Anna, but doing fine none the less. She is anxiously awaiting the results as we all are.

My heart is pounding at the thought that she could be Anna. I hope that no matter how it all turns out, everyone is affected positively by the experience. I'm afraid to say that I hope that (*whispers*) "C" is Anna (*end whisper*) because I guess I'm a little superstitious and I don't want to jinx it!

TIPPY1116
04-12-2007, 04:51 PM
I am sooo excited and can hardly wait to hear the results of the DNA test... I have to have surgery on monday and I hope to hear something before then.. lol... I will be in the hospital for days and not able to visit websleuths... I don't post much but I read it everyday so i feel like i know Anna's mom. GOOD LUCK to you and "C".... I am praying it is Anna.:dance:

:clap: for all the excellent sleuthers!

petra
04-12-2007, 05:17 PM
What Natasha said :D

Double ditto. And a big thanks to sherlock, coming up with such amazing info.

All of you are in my thoughts. You are all such deserving people.

A big hug for C... ourageous from Norway. One dynamite woman.

If I was wearing a hat, I would tip it off to her ;)

christine2448
04-12-2007, 06:23 PM
Double ditto. And a big thanks to sherlock, coming up with such amazing info.

All of you are in my thoughts. You are all such deserving people.

A big hug for C... ourageous from Norway. One dynamite woman.

If I was wearing a hat, I would tip it off to her ;)

Forgive me, http://smilies.sofrayt.com/^/aiw/offtopic.gif ....Petra....u don't happen to be Petra from IPIU?

WholeLottaRosie
04-12-2007, 06:37 PM
Cubby, the resemblance in real life is quite remarkable and has been noted by family members on both sides. LE has specifically enjoined us from conducting private DNA testing and we are cooperating with them; however, political representatives here have now asked that the Department of Justice, which is doing the comparisons, expedite matters as much as possible. The National Center for Missing and Exploited Children has also checked in for a status report. Pray. We'll keep you posted.

Oh Annasmom! I can't imagine what you are going through right now. You are so in my thoughts and prayers. Anna's case has touched me deeply from the moment I first saw it here - several years back. I know if I had been Anna, my Mom would never have given up either. I have read your manuscript and cried buckets.

I pray yours and our prayers are all answered soon. Finding out will bring a new path to your journey and my prayers will continue with you on it.

joellegirl
04-12-2007, 06:39 PM
I also read this thread every day and have my fingers crossed!

Anna is one of my "pet" cold cases. We were born the same year. I'm hoping Anna can have one huge 40th birthday with her family come September! Oh please let "C" be Anna!!!

itsreenw
04-12-2007, 07:04 PM
This post was just added to the Half Moon Bay Review forum:

I've read the story about Anna Waters for quite a while now and I'm very sorry to hear that such a young girl was taken away. I hope they find her, alive and well. She's probably living under another assumed name, but she does need to be found. Thanks. Signed by a lady that lives ""outside the community"

rideforfun
04-12-2007, 07:14 PM
I've had strong feelings about "C" since early on when she talked about "dreams" after some early conversations. To me, that spoke to major trauma that had resulted in a blackout. It is telling to me that some questions are resulting in new found memories. I also think she looks like Anna. Also, the way her personality has been described is what I think Anna would be like.

If you haven't watched the documentary 28 - UP I'd encourage you to check it out. A group of children were filmed at 7 and then every 7 years until age 28. It is amazing that who they were at 7 is very much who they are at 28.

I have a 4 week blackout related to my sister being murdered. I can only remember 3 things from this time -- the shape and texture of the floor, a scream (which took me more than 10 years to recognize was me screaming) and holding onto a car door handle unable to let go. Nothing else. I was 12. People find that so strange but to a frightened child a blackout is a good friend. In talking to other children who have trauma related blackouts I've learned that most blackout on relationships and events. Memories remain of nonstressful things but they don't mean much because they have nothing big to "attach" to. Things that seems to remain -- songs, color (like knowing the color of a car or favorite outfit), smells (like someone smelling of a certain perfume) and nonstressful routine things -- like a walking route or feeding an animal. Anna might remember walking to the creek if that was something done routinely.

I believe the power of positive thinking and vibrations have made unlikely events possible in this case. I hope that isn't too weird or offensive to anyone. I'd suggest we all keep up our "we will find Anna" thoughts so we keep the universe flooded with good vibes.

Blessings to all.

mysteriew
04-12-2007, 07:34 PM
I am not here as much as I used to be. But when I come back, I always check in this thread. It seemed impossible at first....so much time passed, so many different theorys and possibilities. Yet as usual all of you amaze me. You have dug up more info and done in such an organized respectful way that you have been able to rule out many of those possibilities. And now, to be so close. I am so hoping this will work out.

GraceBlue
04-12-2007, 08:49 PM
Oh my god. I have tears running down my face and goosebumps all over. My husband is looking at me like I am crazy or something. I truly hope you all found Anna. I know I havent been on much lately but I do check as often as I can. It is hard when you have a toddler who wants to do everything you do! Annasmom, Doogie, Annasbro, JoePoke, C, and more, all are in my thoughts. Bless you all!

laini
04-12-2007, 10:14 PM
If you haven't watched the documentary 28 - UP I'd encourage you to check it out. A group of children were filmed at 7 and then every 7 years until age 28. It is amazing that who they were at 7 is very much who they are at 28.

I have a 4 week blackout related to my sister being murdered. I can only remember 3 things from this time -- the shape and texture of the floor, a scream (which took me more than 10 years to recognize was me screaming) and holding onto a car door handle unable to let go. Nothing else. I was 12. People find that so strange but to a frightened child a blackout is a good friend. In talking to other children who have trauma related blackouts I've learned that most blackout on relationships and events. Memories remain of nonstressful things but they don't mean much because they have nothing big to "attach" to. Things that seems to remain -- songs, color (like knowing the color of a car or favorite outfit), smells (like someone smelling of a certain perfume) and nonstressful routine things -- like a walking route or feeding an animal. Anna might remember walking to the creek if that was something done routinely.

.

rideforfun,
Thanks for sharing that. I am sorry about your sister.
It is interesting to hear someone who has been "through it" talk about the loss of memory. It is hard for those of us who haven't had that happen to understand what it must be like unless you have been there, so thx for sharing.

mfmangel1
04-13-2007, 03:10 AM
I am just catching up as our internet has been down for two days. I so dislike Comcast!

Wow!!!! The thread has been lively and that so makes me so happy!

From the first time we saw a picture of "C", so many here had a "feeling" and I believe that feeling is right. I hope and pray this is the final stop of this long journey for Anna's family. It has been much too long for them. And "C" deserves to have the loving family she apparently missed out on having earlier in her life.

Dr. Doogie....You are the Man! Special thoughts and prayers to you, Annasmom, Annasbro, Joe, Sherlock, Robin, C and the many other people on the forum and working in the background. It's just about time for a group hug!

Cubby
04-13-2007, 06:43 AM
Cubby, the resemblance in real life is quite remarkable and has been noted by family members on both sides. LE has specifically enjoined us from conducting private DNA testing and we are cooperating with them; however, political representatives here have now asked that the Department of Justice, which is doing the comparisons, expedite matters as much as possible. The National Center for Missing and Exploited Children has also checked in for a status report. Pray. We'll keep you posted.

I assume you mean your side and GW's side of the family. I'm glad the request to expedite the comparisons has been made. It would not be right to leave those involved and C up in the air endlessly regarding the information.

RobinH
04-13-2007, 07:47 AM
I am just catching up as our internet has been down for two days. I so dislike Comcast!

Wow!!!! The thread has been lively and that so makes me so happy!

From the first time we saw a picture of "C", so many here had a "feeling" and I believe that feeling is right. I hope and pray this is the final stop of this long journey for Anna's family. It has been much too long for them. And "C" deserves to have the loving family she apparently missed out on having earlier in her life.

Dr. Doogie....You are the Man! Special thoughts and prayers to you, Annasmom, Annasbro, Joe, Sherlock, Robin, C and the many other people on the forum and working in the background. It's just about time for a group hug!

Thank you, and everyone else who has worked so hard on this case for the encouragement, support, and well wishing. I know for a fact that if Anna knows about this forum, she very much appreciates all that everyone has done.

Again, for the record though, C does NOT believe that she is Anna. She has had some memories of things that could be Anna's memories, but she believes that these are her memories, and not Anna's.

Please forgive me if I seem a little negative about all of this, but I want to be careful for C's sake and for all of Anna's family. I do not want to put her in a position where she feels responsible for everyone's disappointment if the results come back that she is not Anna. Like everyone else here, I hope and pray that she IS Anna, but like Dr. Doogie, I have to say that she could very PROBABLY be Anna, but there is still a huge possibility that she is not.

Cubby
04-13-2007, 08:23 AM
Thank you, and everyone else who has worked so hard on this case for the encouragement, support, and well wishing. I know for a fact that if Anna knows about this forum, she very much appreciates all that everyone has done.

Again, for the record though, C does NOT believe that she is Anna. She has had some memories of things that could be Anna's memories, but she believes that these are her memories, and not Anna's.

Please forgive me if I seem a little negative about all of this, but I want to be careful for C's sake and for all of Anna's family. I do not want to put her in a position where she feels responsible for everyone's disappointment if the results come back that she is not Anna. Like everyone else here, I hope and pray that she IS Anna, but like Dr. Doogie, I have to say that she could very PROBABLY be Anna, but there is still a huge possibility that she is not.


I tend to agree with you on some things. Especially where memories are concerned. I think it's likely, children of certain era's will have similiar memories solely based on clothing trends, toys, childrens activities around at the time. I've also wondered, since Anna was abducted at an age old enough to have some memories, and C was told as a child she was adopted...... C's mom saying she is her biological mother, which would likely mean C would have had to be in the home from infancy OR was there some other explaination. Surely with elder siblings an explaination of some kind had to be shared. I can't wrap my head around a 5 yr old joining a family with elder siblings without some explaination. And those elder siblings sharing information with friends and especially teachers.

Lastly, C mentioned the man in the birth notice is the man she believes to be her biological father. Has C ever had contact with this man? Is he still living? Was he aware of his fathering a daughter? Another avenue, if C and this man were willing would be a dna test between the two. If this man is proven C's biological father, she's likely NOT Anna.

Just another way of looking at things.

And Robin, please let C know she will be in no way responsible for any dissappointments. There have been many ups and downs along the way. Give her our thanks again for her assistance and cooperation with this.

christine2448
04-13-2007, 08:30 AM
I agree, not a one would hold C responsible for any disappointment! She has been and is going through a lot! There is only love coming her way from each of us, no matter what the outcome.

I have had reservations since day one of C being Anna...I do not believe it is her. That is only my opinion and means nothing.

I am still extremely interested in the little Synanon girl we found on Rose Cole's thread.

In the end, I know all anyone wants is the truth and to find Anna and get this family reunited! I pray for all involved everyday, and will do until this mystery is solved.

I was reading an earlier post talking about the reasons why you all have had to travel the paths you have to get to even this point, and many more roads may have to be travelled before finding the answers, but you are helping and healing along the way...what a blessing you all are!

Dr. Doogie
04-13-2007, 12:07 PM
The possibilty remains that C and Anna are two different people. If we are able to determine C and Anna are the same person, one thing that will be a major adjustment is that she was Anna for only five years and C for thirty-four. In other words, the merging of the two identities into a single history requires everyone to recognize that she was Anna, but is C. I do not know if I am explaining this clearly (I am not even sure if it is clear in my own mind), but if we confirm that the two are actually one, it is C who will emerge as the person that the family will get to know. And I believe that C will be someone the family will be proud to call daughter or sister.

Dr. Doogie
04-13-2007, 12:16 PM
...I have had reservations since day one of C being Anna...I do not believe it is her. That is only my opinion and means nothing.

I am still extremely interested in the little Synanon girl we found on Rose Cole's thread...

Since we are so close to a definitive answer concerning C, it has been difficult for me personally to focus on the other promising directions of investigation. If we conclusively determine that C is not Anna, then we will need to refocus our efforts on such things as the Synanon girl, following up on the teenage tipster who says that she met Anna in 1975, pursuing the possible Kukoda connections, etc. But until we resolve the C question (which could occur any minute or within months), it is hard for me to expend energy outside that issue. Hopefully, if C is Anna, the other issues will become moot.

rideforfun
04-13-2007, 12:22 PM
Certainly, we all wish "C" just love and happiness. We've explored many paths and if she is not Anna we will just move on to the next path. Regarding a 5 year old child coming into a home with other children. I don't think the other kids would have big issues with that if they were told the child was a relative. 30 years ago I don't think teachers or neighbors would have found it odd either. I know that after my uncle died 3 of my younger cousins went to live with relatives for several years until my aunt could finish her nursing degree and no one thought anything odd about it. Money was tight, families were larger than and family took care of family -- even long distance. My parents had moved away from other family because of my father's job but they were still willing to help out family as needed. My cousins came from another state and could have come from anywhere. The new parents could have said anything -- parents died, parents couldn't care for, divorce, lost job, illness, unwed mother who now couldn't provide, adopted. In fact, depending on the story told (like parents killed) it would have been great cover for a child who was upset, depressed, emotional -- that is how you'd expect a child to act that was uprooted. Schools then did not require the same type of paperwork that is required today. Look at the stuff we found with birth certificates for women that were not married! Why someone with multiple children would snatch a child is odd but making up a good story about where that child came from would not be hard. As long as you told your kids the same story you told everyone else I think you'd be fine. I have a 7 year old and if I came home with a 5 year old and told her that it was her new sister because a relative had died she would accept that. We have a big family and I could easily get her to believe it was a relative she'd never known.

christine2448
04-13-2007, 12:46 PM
Since we are so close to a definitive answer concerning C, it has been difficult for me personally to focus on the other promising directions of investigation. If we conclusively determine that C is not Anna, then we will need to refocus our efforts on such things as the Synanon girl, following up on the teenage tipster who says that she met Anna in 1975, pursuing the possible Kukoda connections, etc. But until we resolve the C question (which could occur any minute or within months), it is hard for me to expend energy outside that issue. Hopefully, if C is Anna, the other issues will become moot.

Yes, certianly understood. Your the leader here bud....just tell us when/what/where and you know you have a team ready to help! Right now, just waiting on the answer on C then....how long again until we know??

Dr. Doogie
04-13-2007, 01:09 PM
Yes, certianly understood. Your the leader here bud....just tell us when/what/where and you know you have a team ready to help! Right now, just waiting on the answer on C then....how long again until we know??

I hope that I was not misunderstood: Anybody can pursue anything that they feel is relevant anytime they choose to (with the rare exception of a situation where extreme caution is required, then we should probably discuss it before proceeding). My comment was only meant to explain why I am currently having difficulty looking into non-C related topics.

A definitive answer concerning C could happen any minute or as long as three more months from now. My stomach jumps each time my phone rings...until I discover that it is a precorded invitation to attend a timeshare presentation...in spanish. AAARRRGGGHHH!!!! :razz:

RobinH
04-13-2007, 01:16 PM
My stomach jumps each time my phone rings...until I discover that it is a precorded invitation to attend a timeshare presentation...in spanish. AAARRRGGGHHH!!!! :razz:

Doogie, your sense of humor absolutely enlightens, impresses and amazes me. I really DO appreciate it!!!:clap:

christine2448
04-13-2007, 01:25 PM
I hope that I was not misunderstood: Anybody can pursue anything that they feel is relevant anytime they choose to (with the rare exception of a situation where extreme caution is required, then we should probably discuss it before proceeding). My comment was only meant to explain why I am currently having difficulty looking into non-C related topics.



NO no, I understand...I said what I did cause you really have been the "Lead Investigator" and rightly so. I always have come to you, in this particular case, before pursuing anything because you have been 'in' it since day one...you have a better sense of what should and should not be pursued and when.

We should be clear with this.........and I appreciate you saying that, back when the Synanon girl first came up, it was told that it was a rule out, when it hadn't really been looked into...those of us that thought it may be her moved on based on that statement, we should have stayed on it anyway. We learn as we go.

Stay calm Doogie! You will get through this! I hope you all know sooner than later.

Dr. Doogie
04-13-2007, 01:30 PM
Somewhere in the great and wonderful world of cyber-information, my cellphone number seems to have become associated with someone who speaks spanish. As a rabid "English Only" believer, it infuriates me each time I receive prerecorded phonecalls in espanol. Somewhere, there is a spanish-speaking callcenter manager laughing his a$$ off everytime I get a call...

Dr. Doogie
04-13-2007, 01:33 PM
...Stay calm Doogie! You will get through this! I hope you all know sooner than later.

In the words of Lloyd Bridges in the movie "Airplane": Looks like I picked the wrong week to stop drinking.

mysteriew
04-13-2007, 01:41 PM
The possibilty remains that C and Anna are two different people. If we are able to determine C and Anna are the same person, one thing that will be a major adjustment is that she was Anna for only five years and C for thirty-four. In other words, the merging of the two identities into a single history requires everyone to recognize that she was Anna, but is C. I do not know if I am explaining this clearly (I am not even sure if it is clear in my own mind), but if we confirm that the two are actually one, it is C who will emerge as the person that the family will get to know. And I believe that C will be someone the family will be proud to call daughter or sister.

To some extent we are all shaped by our environment and experiences in life. IF 'C' is Anna, she will be different than the Anna that left her home, simply because the experiences she would have had as 'C' will be different. Thus getting to know 'C' would be different than knowing Anna.

In no way should 'C' ever feel responsible for any disappointment. Yes, if it is ruled she is not related to the case there will be disappoinment. But that is not because of anything that 'C' did or did not do. What she did was cooperate and help in ruling in/out a direction in the case.

Stepping up and admitting the possibility was a very brave thing to do. She took a big risk, in that she is risking her life and history as she knows it at present compared to finding out she once had another life. If it is determined she is not Anna, the disappointment will not be at her, only at the fact that the direction did not pan out.

I hope that someday- no matter which direction this lead goes, that 'C' will be comfortable in stopping in to WS and allowing us all to thank her for taking those risks. Because no matter which way it turns out, she did a very valuable service.

Julessleuther
04-13-2007, 01:46 PM
The possibilty remains that C and Anna are two different people. If we are able to determine C and Anna are the same person, one thing that will be a major adjustment is that she was Anna for only five years and C for thirty-four. In other words, the merging of the two identities into a single history requires everyone to recognize that she was Anna, but is C. I do not know if I am explaining this clearly (I am not even sure if it is clear in my own mind), but if we confirm that the two are actually one, it is C who will emerge as the person that the family will get to know. And I believe that C will be someone the family will be proud to call daughter or sister.

Absolutely I understand what you mean. I know my situation is very different, but alittle similar. I was one name and part of a family before the age of 5, but became another name and part of another family after that point. Growing up, my family that I grew up with was my FAMILY, but I still had memories of my original family. That was difficult for me. As an adult, after finding my natural family, the only connection we had to each other was the past--those years we were together. They knew me as the original girl, but I knew myself as the girl I became when I was adopted. My natural mother knew me as her daughter, but I did not know her as my mother(This may be different for C--my mother chose to give me up, and of course Anna was taken from her mother). It was very confusing and emotionally wrenching. Only my older sister and I have been able to have a good relationship because we talked about and dealt with the past, but have moved on and now live in the present and future. My biggest word of advice if C turns out to be Anna is that you talk about the past, you emotionally deal with it, and then you embrace who Anna/C has become and live in the present.

RobinH
04-13-2007, 01:47 PM
I hope that someday- no matter which direction this lead goes, that 'C' will be comfortable in stopping in to WS and allowing us all to thank her for taking those risks. Because no matter which way it turns out, she did a very valuable service.

mysterview:C has checked out WS before, but prefers not to right now. I print a lot of these posts for her, so she really does hear and know about all of her supporters out here, and she appreciates it more than we will ever know. I will print more of our posts today for her viewing tonight. Her folder of printouts is getting to be huge!!!

christine2448
04-13-2007, 01:50 PM
For C, no matter what the outcome! :blowkiss: :blowkiss: :blowkiss:

Dr. Doogie
04-13-2007, 02:04 PM
Speaking about the movie "Airplane" (and completely off-topic for this thread):

When the movie Airplane came out in the late 1970's, Annasbro and I went to the opening night at the California Theater on Polk Street in San Francisco. As we were standing in line, a guy with a shaved head came out of the theater and was waiting on the sidewalk for his ride. In the late 1970's, the only two famous people in the world who had a shaved head were Yul Brenner and Telly Savalas. I nudged AB and jokingly said, "Hey, look. It's Telly Savalas." Well, the guy turned toward us and it was Telly Savalas! We revelled for a moment in our star-watching luck, then went in the theater.

Afetr spending a half-hour waiting in line, my first required stop was the men's room. Well, understand that a men's room on Polk Street in SF in the 1970's could be an...interesting...place. (Insert your analysis of me as a homophobe here.) I decided that the best course of action would be to get in, take care of business, and get the hell out as soon as possible. I entered and immediately went to the far left urinal of a bank of five (No one else was in there at the time). I was forcing myself to finish as quickly as possible when I see out of the corner of my eye a big man come in and stand at the urinal right next to me (leaving the three on the right unoccupied). As I pondered my potential fate as some theatergoers love toy, AB came in and went to the urinal just to the right of the other guy. Now this was just too weird - men's room etiquette states that you ALWAYS go the stall farthest away from whoever else was in there (i.e. I go to stall one, new guy goes to stall five, AB then goes to stall three).

I immediately cut short my relief and rushed over to the sink to wash my hands. I glanced in the mirror, trying to process this weird chain of events when it dawned on me that the big guy who had been standing next to me was Telly Savalas, who had returned to the theater. That explained why AB had stood where he did - so he could someday tell his grandchildren that he had peed next to Telly Savalas. And my homophobic paranoia had blinded me from capitalizing on perhaps the all-time greatest setup for a one-liner. Had I known it was TS standing next to me, I should have glanced over at him and said: "Who loves you, baby?"

christine2448
04-13-2007, 02:07 PM
Had I know it was TS standing next to me, I should have glanced over at him and said: "Who loves you, baby?"

Hahaha...great story!

InterestedNHelping
04-13-2007, 02:19 PM
Doogie, you are a crack-up! Your leavity is a good lesson for us all, in dealing with the antcipation we all feel here...thank you for simply being, everyone here enjoys your stories and hard work! If you had said that to TS, his fears may have aligned with yours at the moment, lol.
Blessings
You definitely should write a great book someday!

Julessleuther
04-13-2007, 05:20 PM
Speaking about the movie "Airplane" (and completely off-topic for this thread):

When the movie Airplane came out in the late 1970's, Annasbro and I went to the opening night at the California Theater on Polk Street in San Francisco. As we were standing in line, a guy with a shaved head came out of the theater and was waiting on the sidewalk for his ride. In the late 1970's, the only two famous people in the world who had a shaved head were Yul Brenner and Telly Savalas. I nudged AB and jokingly said, "Hey, look. It's Telly Savalas." Well, the guy turned toward us and it was Telly Savalas! We revelled for a moment in our star-watching luck, then went in the theater.

Afetr spending a half-hour waiting in line, my first required stop was the men's room. Well, understand that a men's room on Polk Street in SF in the 1970's could be an...interesting...place. (Insert your analysis of me as a homophobe here.) I decided that the best course of action would be to get in, take care of business, and get the hell out as soon as possible. I entered and immediately went to the far left urinal of a bank of five (No one else was in there at the time). I was forcing myself to finish as quickly as possible when I see out of the corner of my eye a big man come in and stand at the urinal right next to me (leaving the three on the right unoccupied). As I pondered my potential fate as some theatergoers love toy, AB came in and went to the urinal just to the right of the other guy. Now this was just too weird - men's room etiquette states that you ALWAYS go the stall farthest away from whoever else was in there (i.e. I go to stall one, new guy goes to stall five, AB then goes to stall three).

I immediately cut short my relief and rushed over to the sink to wash my hands. I glanced in the mirror, trying to process this weird chain of events when it dawned on me that the big guy who had been standing next to me was Telly Savalas, who had returned to the theater. That explained why AB had stood where he did - so he could someday tell his grandchildren that he had peed next to Telly Savalas. And my homophobic paranoia had blinded me from capitalizing on perhaps the all-time greatest setup for a one-liner. Had I know it was TS standing next to me, I should have glanced over at him and said: "Who loves you, baby?"

ROFLMAO!!! :laugh: :clap:

Joe Ford
04-14-2007, 01:25 AM
Absolutely I understand what you mean. I know my situation is very different, but alittle similar. I was one name and part of a family before the age of 5, but became another name and part of another family after that point. Growing up, my family that I grew up with was my FAMILY, but I still had memories of my original family. That was difficult for me. As an adult, after finding my natural family, the only connection we had to each other was the past--those years we were together. They knew me as the original girl, but I knew myself as the girl I became when I was adopted. My natural mother knew me as her daughter, but I did not know her as my mother(This may be different for C--my mother chose to give me up, and of course Anna was taken from her mother). It was very confusing and emotionally wrenching. Only my older sister and I have been able to have a good relationship because we talked about and dealt with the past, but have moved on and now live in the present and future. My biggest word of advice if C turns out to be Anna is that you talk about the past, you emotionally deal with it, and then you embrace who Anna/C has become and live in the present.
Exceedingly wise advice, Julessleuther. And much appreciated.

Cubby
04-14-2007, 02:59 PM
No way am I going on the Springer show! Not if I have to go topless and dance on the pole!

.

Aw come one! But, you have to do it in that leisure suit.

Serious note, I think the synanon connection should certainly be pursued regardless of other current developments. I spent some time looking over Annasmom's book again last night and see a strong resemblence between the little girl in the photo and Annas youngest brother. ( The family pic, with Anna, Annasmom, I assume Joe, and Annas two brothers ). Did anyone else see a resemblence?

Question for Annasmom - from your book. The picture of your family with Anna as an infant. The man holding her, I assume is GW? If so, he looks so different there than the other pictures I've seen. Looks so much bigger, taller, bulkier....... He looks more slender in the other photos. Also, has C seen the family pictures you have posted.-and the pictures of the farm- if so, did she have any comments on them which are ok to make public?

Cubby
04-14-2007, 03:01 PM
Exceedingly wise advice, Julessleuther. And much appreciated.


Agreed. Especially as it's something which hasn't been mentioned yet.

Annasunc
04-17-2007, 04:54 PM
There is no statute of limitations on kidnapping.

Since the Lindbergh case, kidnapping is a federal crime regardless of whether or not state lines are crossed. Do you know how involved is the FBI is in this matter? If it's considered a state case, there are (at least) two state legal structures to contend with, including the whole matter of extradition (which I don't think the Feds would need to worry about). Also, a federal case may mean it's worth approaching your U. S. Representative and Senators to try to get it off the back burner. "They've waited 35 years, they can wait another 6 months" is not an acceptable attitude, and they need to know that.

Dr. Doogie
04-17-2007, 05:36 PM
I believe (though this is being done from memory and may be incorrect) that the law changed sometime after Anna's disappearance - if that is wrong, please let me know since it would be helpful to have federal involvement in the search.

Your analysis about "what is six more months" is right on - lets solve this thing NOW! If we are put to the back of the line behind newer crimes, we may never move to the front since more recent crimes are occuring daily that would take precedence. Of course, there should be some prioritizing beyond simple "first in, first out", but enough is enough. The San Mateo Sheriffs Department is absolutely on our side on this and have been trying to prod the DOJ to move this along, but they are just one of many jurisdictions that utilize the DOJ's labs and are subject to the same delays that are frustrating us. The real problem is that budget constraints and priority considerations at the state level are slowing down results to a crawl. So we continue to wait...

Annasmom
04-17-2007, 06:16 PM
Since the Lindbergh case, kidnapping is a federal crime regardless of whether or not state lines are crossed. Do you know how involved is the FBI is in this matter? If it's considered a state case, there are (at least) two state legal structures to contend with, including the whole matter of extradition (which I don't think the Feds would need to worry about). Also, a federal case may mean it's worth approaching your U. S. Representative and Senators to try to get it off the back burner. "They've waited 35 years, they can wait another 6 months" is not an acceptable attitude, and they need to know that. I had a phone call from Congressman Lantos' office this morning. They have left a message with the county supervisor, they now have a file on Anna's case and are checking on the Department of Justice backlog. I wrote to Detective Gilletti at the urging of a former neighbor who stopped by unexpectedly this morning. I know we are very wary of using the psi-word, but this individual gives psychic readings which very often seem to hit on target. She says there is no doubt that Anna is alive.

Dr. Doogie
04-17-2007, 07:19 PM
...I know we are very wary of using the psi-word, but this individual gives psychic readings which very often seem to hit on target. She says there is no doubt that Anna is alive.

She didn't happen to also provide Anna's current phone number and address, did she? That would be real helpful... :blushing:

Seriously, did your friend stop by because she had this info, or did she stop by to visit and gave this info in response to your telling her of the recent developments?

Annasmom
04-17-2007, 07:29 PM
Since the Lindbergh case, kidnapping is a federal crime regardless of whether or not state lines are crossed. Do you know how involved is the FBI is in this matter? If it's considered a state case, there are (at least) two state legal structures to contend with, including the whole matter of extradition (which I don't think the Feds would need to worry about). Also, a federal case may mean it's worth approaching your U. S. Representative and Senators to try to get it off the back burner. "They've waited 35 years, they can wait another 6 months" is not an acceptable attitude, and they need to know that. We really have no hard evidence that kidnapping was involved, so it remains a county case. However, there is a file with the FBI (I assume the NCMEC contacted them) and a contact person. But everything hinges on that DNA result right now.

Annasmom
04-17-2007, 07:31 PM
She didn't happen to also provide Anna's current phone number and address, did she? That would be real helpful... :blushing:

Seriously, did your friend stop by because she had this info, or did she stop by to visit and gave this info in response to your telling her of the recent developments? Yep, it's that same thing about the psi-word, the lack of specifics. Regarding your second comment, it was a little of both. She has spoken about this to me before. She is pushing, pushing for DNA results (as aren't we all?)

Dr. Doogie
04-17-2007, 07:53 PM
My lack of confidence in "the P-word" is often expressed here, but there is something happening here in the last week or so that I intuitively feel that we are very, very close to a answer. I jump each time my cellphone rings, thinking the words: "This is it." And I am more and more optimistic that the news that we will receive will be good news.

Concerning the "knowledge" that Anna is "undoubtedly alive": after the intial optimism of the possible link between Anna and Sharon Marshall, and the "Eiffee" email leads that did not pan out, I unspokenly resigned myself to the concept that this case would be solved by the discovery of an unpublicized Jane Doe eventually being matched up with Anna via DNA. However, each new revelation and discovery has chipped away at that seemingly reasonable belief. I slowly, but inevitably, came to realize that the evidence points toward Anna being alive today. And with recent events, I believe that Annasmom may be having a very memorable Mother's Day this year.

okietexan
04-17-2007, 08:16 PM
My lack of confidence in "the P-word" is often expressed here, but there is something happening here in the last week or so that I intuitively feel that we are very, very close to a answer. I jump each time my cellphone rings, thinking the words: "This is it." And I am more and more optimistic that the news that we will receive will be good news.

Concerning the "knowledge" that Anna is "undoubtedly alive": after the intial optimism of the possible link between Anna and Sharon Marshall, and the "Eiffee" email leads that did not pan out, I unspokenly resigned myself to the concept that this case would be solved by the discovery of an unpublicized Jane Doe eventually being matched up with Anna via DNA. However, each new revelation and discovery has chipped away at that seemingly reasonable belief. I slowly, but inevitably, came to realize that the evidence points toward Anna being alive today. And with recent events, I believe that Annasmom may be having a very memorable Mother's Day this year.

Ohhhh Dr. Doogie! That give me chills! I hope and pray that Annasmom will be able to have the best Mother's Day gift of all!!!

Annasmom
04-17-2007, 08:26 PM
My lack of confidence in "the P-word" is often expressed here, but there is something happening here in the last week or so that I intuitively feel that we are very, very close to a answer. I jump each time my cellphone rings, thinking the words: "This is it." And I am more and more optimistic that the news that we will receive will be good news.

Concerning the "knowledge" that Anna is "undoubtedly alive": after the intial optimism of the possible link between Anna and Sharon Marshall, and the "Eiffee" email leads that did not pan out, I unspokenly resigned myself to the concept that this case would be solved by the discovery of an unpublicized Jane Doe eventually being matched up with Anna via DNA. However, each new revelation and discovery has chipped away at that seemingly reasonable belief. I slowly, but inevitably, came to realize that the evidence points toward Anna being alive today. And with recent events, I believe that Annasmom may be having a very memorable Mother's Day this year.

So you can well imagine that my heart stopped when there was a knock at the door 45 minutes ago and I opened the door to find Detective Gilletti, who had driven from Redwood City through commute traffic to respond to my e-mail. He did not bring news, but rather wanted just to sit down in person and tell me about the phone calls and letters which have been going back and forth between his office, the Sheriff's office and the DOJ this past week. Right now, he is anxious to communicate to the DOJ and their forensic people that many lives are more or less on hold, awaiting the results of those DNA tests. I was very touched that he took the time and trouble to come all this way to tell me this in person. I guess my e-mail to him must have sounded pretty anguished, the way I feel right now.

mfmangel1
04-17-2007, 11:46 PM
So you can well imagine that my heart stopped when there was a knock at the door 45 minutes ago and I opened the door to find Detective Gilletti, who had driven from Redwood City through commute traffic to respond to my e-mail. He did not bring news, but rather wanted just to sit down in person and tell me about the phone calls and letters which have been going back and forth between his office, the Sheriff's office and the DOJ this past week. Right now, he is anxious to communicate to the DOJ and their forensic people that many lives are more or less on hold, awaiting the results of those DNA tests. I was very touched that he took the time and trouble to come all this way to tell me this in person. I guess my e-mail to him must have sounded pretty anguished, the way I feel right now.

Well, it seems you have had a lot of company today and folks in the right places have been very busy working on Anna's case recently. It appears that it is not just "us" that feel an urgency about Anna now! Finally, the end of the journey may be within sight with everyone's help and cooperation.

I am so sorry for your anguish. You must feel as though you don't know which end is up at this point, while we merely sit on pins and needles. All we can do is hold your hand and wait with you.

Detective Gilletti apparently has a soft spot in his heart for you and Anna.

kyresearcher
04-18-2007, 12:09 AM
So you can well imagine that my heart stopped when there was a knock at the door 45 minutes ago and I opened the door to find Detective Gilletti, who had driven from Redwood City through commute traffic to respond to my e-mail. He did not bring news, but rather wanted just to sit down in person and tell me about the phone calls and letters which have been going back and forth between his office, the Sheriff's office and the DOJ this past week. Right now, he is anxious to communicate to the DOJ and their forensic people that many lives are more or less on hold, awaiting the results of those DNA tests. I was very touched that he took the time and trouble to come all this way to tell me this in person. I guess my e-mail to him must have sounded pretty anguished, the way I feel right now.
Annasmom, I am also sitting on pins and needles, when I read DrDoogie's last post I had goosebumps all over me and the best feeling came over me. I don't post very often as I don't seem to have anything to contribute to the search but read nightly. Couldn't go to bed without checking on the progress in our search for Anna.
So, since I can't contribute anything I will just send you LOVE and a big HUG. I will keep praying that you will have a wonderful mother's day this year.....

Dr. Doogie
04-18-2007, 12:06 PM
Let me provide a few of the details of things that we have discovered that has led me to believe that C is probably Anna:

* C has a memory of riding a horse with people who are not her known family as a child. When asked if this could match up with anything that Anna may have done (remember that the family lived on a horse ranch), Annasmom did not recall any time where Anna had riden a horse. However, when Annasmom was reviewing her personal journal of the family's bus trip, she discovered an entry detailing how Anna had in fact gone on a ride with friends of the family.

* There is an uncommon medical condition involving the teeth and gums that is known to be hereditary that is corrected by surgery. Both Annasmom and C had this procedure done as children, while none of C's siblings have had this condition.

* The most recent bombshell is that C was asked if she had any memories involving a bus. Her first response was "no", but then said that she recalled a bus - giving a description of the shape and color scheme that the bus was painted - a description that exactly matched the bus that Anna's family had used in their cross-country trip. These details have never been published either here or in the "Searching for Anna" manuscript (nor will I mention the exact color scheme now in case C turns out to be not Anna, these details will provide a good control mechanism to test the validity of future possible matches). Most people, when asked to describe a bus from their childhood, will envitably describe a yellow school bus. The fact that C recalls a bus with the unique color scheme of the family's bus is extremely convincing to me.

My belief is that we will have answers either this week or next (based on gut feeling, not any insider knowledge). If C is confirmed to be Anna, this will start a series of rapidly occuring events. We may not be able to immediately inform this forum until certain things occur, but we will of course share this information as soon as it is prudent to do so.

christine2448
04-18-2007, 12:26 PM
So you can well imagine that my heart stopped when there was a knock at the door 45 minutes ago and I opened the door to find Detective Gilletti, My heart stopped just reading this first sentence. I am so glad that he seems understanding and supporting, which is what you need. None of us, unless we have been through what you have, and I sure never have, can even BEGIN to comprehend what you are going through right now. I personally, am in awe of you and how you have come through all of this!

christine2448
04-18-2007, 12:29 PM
We may not be able to immediately inform this forum until certain things occur, but we will of course share this information as soon as it is prudent to do so.

1st, thank you for sharing with all of us the reasons you believe at this time C may very well be Anna...very interesting.

2nd...YOU'RE KILLING US DOOGIE! What do you mean you won't be able to tell us? Can you PM us and not broadcast...something. Holy shamolies!

mysteriew
04-18-2007, 01:36 PM
Annasmom I don't know what you are feeling. I can imagine there are a whole range of emotions right now from hopefulness, anxiousness, frustration all mixed with the occasional twinge of anger now and then. And maybe even the occasional moment of calmness and certainity. (A little like waiting for the results of diagnostic tests.)
All I can say is that whether the answer is yes or no (and it is looking more and more like a yes) that when you do get an answer, you will at least have an answer you can trust. There will be no more uncertainity as to whether this is the correct answer or not. And maybe, just maybe the answer will be worth it.
I just wanted you to know that my thoughts are with you. I've been checking in a lot more frequently lately- with my fingers and toes crossed- hoping that you finally have an answer.

Annasmom
04-18-2007, 01:36 PM
My heart stopped just reading this first sentence. I am so glad that he seems understanding and supporting, which is what you need. None of us, unless we have been through what you have, and I sure never have, can even BEGIN to comprehend what you are going through right now. I personally, am in awe of you and how you have come through all of this!
I know that the San Mateo Sheriff's office reads the forum (they have told me so), so I don't want to go on and on and embarrass them, but I wanted to add a little to what I posted in haste last night. Det. G says that before anything else, he wants to find Anna. Backtracking to see how she may have gotten to wherever she did is not even on his list right now. He also said that he understands that C and I and our families are more or less "on hold" until the DNA results come through, and that the forum and through them probably thousands of people have a strong interest in ruling this possible match one way or another. He said he wanted to make sure that the CADOJ understood this and that it was not just a matter of running DNA on an unidentified. He was expecting and waiting for a call from them in this regard. Our contact at Congressman Lantos' office also is still on the job.
There is no way at all that I can possibly express my gratitude to all of you for your prayers, your keen investigation, and your support. How am I getting through it? Well, I couldn't get through it alone, for sure. And I thank you.

Dr. Doogie
04-18-2007, 01:55 PM
...YOU'RE KILLING US DOOGIE! What do you mean you won't be able to tell us? Can you PM us and not broadcast...something. Holy shamolies!

Remember that the moment that C is confirmed as Anna, this case becomes a criminal matter. Certain individuals would immediately become either material witnesses, accompliaces or kidnappers and LE will be swinging into high gear getting answers. Since we do not know exactly who is monitoring this site, it will be prudent that the first notice that those involved received would be face-to-face with LE and they not be given a "heads-up" on this forum. Certainly, we will be eager to share here as soon as we can, but we must not do anything that would jepardize any further investigation.

christine2448
04-18-2007, 01:58 PM
Remember that the moment that C is confirmed as Anna, this case becomes a criminal matter. Certain individuals would immediately become either material witnesses, accompliaces or kidnappers and LE will be swinging into high gear getting answers. Since we do not know exactly who is monitoring this site, it will be prudent that the first notice that those involved received would be face-to-face with LE and they not be given a "heads-up" on this forum. Certainly, we will be eager to share here as soon as we can, but we must not do anything that would jepardize any further investigation.

I know, I know *sighing with shoulders down in defeat*

You are right. ugh

JDB
04-18-2007, 02:53 PM
DD or Annasmom: Did Anna ever go down to the Harbor in HMB? The reason I am asking is I have some contacts on a fishing forum that I know have old pics of the Harbor back then. If that would help stir C memory an I truly hope she is Anna. I can ask them to e-mail the photos and I can send to you. If they would help PM me. ALso could I tell them what I need them for?
I am sorry I did not think of this a long time ago.

Annasmom
04-18-2007, 03:14 PM
DD or Annasmom: Did Anna ever go down to the Harbor in HMB? The reason I am asking is I have some contacts on a fishing forum that I know have old pics of the Harbor back then. If that would help stir C memory an I truly hope she is Anna. I can ask them to e-mail the photos and I can send to you. If they would help PM me. ALso could I tell them what I need them for?
I am sorry I did not think of this a long time ago. Good idea; thank you. I don't think we went to the harbor often, since we lived seven miles south of Half Moon Bay, but our neighbor had the Abalone Shop there, so we must have gone some time.

GraceBlue
04-18-2007, 03:21 PM
Annasmom: Did anyone show C any pictures of you, Joe, your sons, the house, and Saturn the dog to help jog her memory if she indeed is Anna?

JDB
04-18-2007, 03:35 PM
Good idea; thank you. I don't think we went to the harbor often, since we lived seven miles south of Half Moon Bay, but our neighbor had the Abalone Shop there, so we must have gone some time.

WHat years would you like me to see if I can get?

Jodibug
04-18-2007, 03:47 PM
Annasmom: Did anyone show C any pictures of you, Joe, your sons, the house, and Saturn the dog to help jog her memory if she indeed is Anna?

Great question!



Annasmom- I just want to give you a big hug every time I read one of your posts.

I can't imagine all these years of not knowing what happened to your daughter.

I really think (and pray) that you will be reunited with her soon. I know it won't be easy, but I hope that you will be able to have some type of relationship with her.

JanetElaine
04-18-2007, 03:56 PM
And with recent events, I believe that Annasmom may be having a very memorable Mother's Day this year.

If I have ever wanted anyone on Websleuths to be right, it's you right now.

Prayers!

Shadow205
04-18-2007, 04:10 PM
If I have ever wanted anyone on Websleuths to be right, it's you right now.

Prayers!

Me too Janet and I think that we are speaking for a lot of others here in saying so. I know it would make my Mother's Day happy too.

rideforfun
04-18-2007, 05:09 PM
Shapes and colors -- this is what she recalled from the bus. Exactly what I've experienced with others who have a trauma related blackout (and experienced myself). I would guess she might respond to the picture of the dog (can't remember how long the dog had been part of the family) -- favorite outfits -- if she had a coat, favorite shirt or pants or boots she might remember that with some questions. These things carry less risk than remembering people or events. Some evidence also now exists that shapes, colors and smells are stored as memories in another part of the brain. Flooring is often recalled -- a child is close to the floor, plays on the floor and the floor has a sound as well as a color and texture. The floor where my sister was killed is one of my only memories of that time but I can recall all the kitchen and bedroom floors of various houses since I was 3. Many others can do the same.

I'm excited and praying daily. As a horse person I would say most kids have a riding experience with a non family person but the other things are very powerful for me -- especially the bus color and shape because that is so close to my own experience of what would likely be recalled.

Hugs and blessings.

Dr. Doogie
04-18-2007, 05:20 PM
One other quick note about the significance of the bus: after the trip was completed, the bus was parked on the farm for a period of time and served as a playhouse for Anna and her friends. This would be another reason why she may remember the bus.

Annasmom
04-18-2007, 05:25 PM
WHat years would you like me to see if I can get?
1972 would be the best, JDB. Thank you.

Annasmom
04-18-2007, 05:26 PM
Our assemblyperson here is phoning the DOJ direct, I just learned.

JDB
04-18-2007, 05:28 PM
1972 would be the best, JDB. Thank you.

Check you PM Doggie you to. I hope this helps. I also have sent another e-mail to a good friend then has a bunch of Old timers fishing on thier boat every other Monday.

No need to thank Me . When you find Anna that will be thanks enough.

Dr. Doogie
04-18-2007, 05:36 PM
Our assemblyperson here is phoning the DOJ direct, I just learned.

I guess it pays to know the right people.

I recall that years ago my father's business was having some tax hassles and was having no luck in getting through to anyone who had the ability or desire to remedy the situation. One of his company's middle managers volunteered that he knew a woman from the tax agency who was in his square dance club. One quick call and the proper forms necessary to correct the problem were mailed out - problem solved because of square dancing!

MagicRose99
04-18-2007, 07:40 PM
I guess it pays to know the right people.

I recall that years ago my father's business was having some tax hassles and was having no luck in getting through to anyone who had the ability or desire to remedy the situation. One of his company's middle managers volunteered that he knew a woman from the tax agency who was in his square dance club. One quick call and the proper forms necessary to correct the problem were mailed out - problem solved because of square dancing!

I'm glad to see that our elected representatives really do go out of the way for their people. I remember when my dad kept getting threatened by the city of Oakland for a parking ticket he never got. He'd never been in Oakland and kept trying to relate this to them, but they kept on with their threats. Pop got a hold of Rep. Robert Matsui's office and explained the situation to them... within days the city of Oakland sent a letter of apology to Pop and told him that the whole misunderstanding was dropped.

It's great to see more out there that take care of their people!

InterestedNHelping
04-19-2007, 10:58 AM
We are sending blessings your way, Annasmom! Dr. Doogie, you are the kind of friend that everyone needs, what a great guy you are! All this interest by the right people working on this is wonderful, it's good to hear that things are being done by politicians and others to really make progress on this.
The 'bus description' gave me chills, we can hardly wait, but we are patient! Blessings to all this week!

iNTERESTEDWOMAN
04-19-2007, 11:31 AM
Shapes and colors -- this is what she recalled from the bus.... shapes, colors and smells are stored as memories in another part of the brain. Flooring is often recalled -- a child is close to the floor, plays on the floor and the floor has a sound as well as a color and texture...
Hugs and blessings.
This is SO true Rideforfun. My sister has almost no memory of our youth, but the few things she does remember is flooring. Grandmas basement tile floor, the hardwood floors at our first house, and the green shag at the next.

When we where young, my mom used to always wear "Youth Dew" perfume from Estee Lauder. It has been 30 years since I last smelled that. Then at Church (on Easter Sunday) I smelled it on an older lady. I immediately asked her if that was what she was wearing and she was shocked that I recognized it. She said it was from a very old bottle that she only uses for "special Occasions".

I wonder if Annasmom had a favorite perfume or body lotion with an unmistakable sent. Would be interesting to secretly ask one of "C" friends to put something on that Annasmom or Joe Ford would have worn and then go see "C" and see if that would jog up a few memories.

christine2448
04-19-2007, 11:41 AM
I wonder if Annasmom had a favorite perfume or body lotion with an unmistakable sent. Would be interesting to secretly ask one of "C" friends to put something on that Annasmom or Joe Ford would have worn and then go see "C" and see if that would jog up a few memories.

Smell has been a big thing in helping me with my memories after my car accident. Smells trigger lots of memories for me. (and music?, that has helped me too)

Annasmom
04-19-2007, 01:18 PM
I'm glad to see that our elected representatives really do go out of the way for their people.
It's great to see more out there that take care of their people!
I just got this from our congressman's office this morning (they are trying to make contact with the CADOJ to see that our tests get priority):

Hopefully I will have something to report from Assemblyperson Mullin's office tomorrow or Friday.

Dr. Doogie
04-19-2007, 01:41 PM
I just got this from our congressman's office this morning (they are trying to make contact with the CADOJ to see that our tests get priority):

Hopefully I will have something to report from Assemblyperson Mullin's office tomorrow or Friday.

Things are moving quickly now!

PSUfan
04-19-2007, 01:47 PM
Smell has been a big thing in helping me with my memories after my car accident. Smells trigger lots of memories for me. (and music?, that has helped me too) I couldn't agree more, on the smell trigger. Taste as well... special bubblegum.. crackerjacks? homemade jam? Homemade rootbeer? Meadow tea? A childhood bedtime story? Those might be unique to Annasmoms home.

Jodibug
04-19-2007, 01:48 PM
On pins and needles here.......

GraceBlue
04-19-2007, 02:21 PM
On pins and needles here.......

Same here!!!

mysteriew
04-19-2007, 04:05 PM
I am anxious also. And I am so hoping that the answer will not only come quickly, but will be what we are all hoping for. (call me superstitous but I am afraid I will jinx it if I say it out loud.)

Tuffy101
04-19-2007, 06:20 PM
annasmom,did you sing to her or maybe sing a song together,a simple tune that made laughter.my prayers are with you !

Annasmom
04-19-2007, 08:15 PM
annasmom,did you sing to her or maybe sing a song together,a simple tune that made laughter.my prayers are with you !These last several posts are all great suggestions, and certainly they'll be useful if we get a DNA match. At the moment, I am just grateful that C hasn't yet balked at all this scrutiny. I don't want to subject her to any more at the present. I am a little shell-shocked myself. Thank you all for your good thoughts, your continuing suggestions and ideas and your prayers while we wait, and we'll certainly get back to the other possibilities if we don't get a match.

mfmangel1
04-19-2007, 10:53 PM
It's amazing what will trigger a childhood memory.

I believe a lot of us are experiecing that through this thread!