Astronaut arrested in alleged kidnap attempt

[Penelope631]

Astronaut arrested in alleged kidnap attempt :eek:

Lisa Nowak waited in hiding for romantic rival, police say

http://msnbcmedia3.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/070205/070205_lisaNowak_vsmall.vsmall.jpg (http://%3cimg%20src=/) Orange County Jail
Astronaut Lisa M. Nowak was arrested Monday and charged with attempted kidnapping and other counts.

ORLANDO, Fla. - An astronaut drove 900 miles and donned a disguise to confront a woman she believed was her rival for the affections of a space shuttle pilot, police said. She was arrested Monday and charged with attempted kidnapping and other counts.

U.S. Navy Capt. Lisa Nowak, 43, who flew last July on a shuttle mission to the international space station, was also charged with attempted vehicle burglary with battery, destruction of evidence and battery. She was denied bail.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16997958/?GT1=9033

[KatK]

I posted this story over at Crime News, but figured I'd already be scooped here. (I'm KatK there too.) CNN's report (http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/02/05/space.love/index.html), her NASA bio (http://www.jsc.nasa.gov/Bios/htmlbios/nowak.html), and Fox's coverage (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,250415,00.html) as well.

[LinasK]

This belongs in Bizarre News! :rolleyes: How far this astronaut has fallen! She was really pretty in her astronaut picturehttp://www.foxnews.com/images/root_images/astronaut_love_triangle.jpg (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,250415,00.html), now she's thrown her career away, one that a lot of people would gladly have.

[shdbepaintin]

I am certainly thankful she wasn't able to get to the woman she was after, (well she did get pepper spray to her) but I think her intentions were ominous at best. She probably didn't know what she would do, but seemed prepared to do harm.
What a waste. Some people seem to have it all, and it just isn't enough.
I certainly feel sorry for her husband and kids.
This is just so strange.
And she really looks like she has been through the wringer between photos. What on earth could have happened to send her so over the edge.
Boggles the mind, and my mind is easy to boggle.

[Mygirlsadie]

This lady is obviously mentally disturbed. She had on diapers? She is married...the wig the bb gun the knife..yeah she is in big trouble now. :snooty: What a waste of a brain because she had it all.

[Floh]

This lady is obviously mentally disturbed. She had on diapers? She is married...the wig the bb gun the knife..yeah she is in big trouble now. :snooty: What a waste of a brain because she had it all.

It explains the following in the story:

Nowak raced from Houston to Orlando wearing diapers so she wouldn’t have to stop to urinate, authorities said.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16997958/?GT1=9033

[Pandora]

If there were still X-Files episodes being made, this would make a great starter for an episode!

[southcitymom]

It explains the following in the story:

Nowak raced from Houston to Orlando wearing diapers so she wouldn’t have to stop to urinate, authorities said.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16997958/?GT1=9033
It says that astronauts wear diapers on launch and re-entry. I didn't know that. So the diaper-wearing wouldn't be so strange for her.

[misterallgood]

I think any way you slice it, in this situation, the diaper-wearing was weird.

This woman is either mentally ill or on something. If you contrast her astronaut photo with her mugshot, there's a huge difference.

Steve

[mjak]

This is very sad. It sounds like she may be very mentally Ill. I think before she is condemned an estensive mental evaluation needs to be done ASAP.

mjak

[JanetElaine]

When I saw her pictures on the FoxNews website (see post #3) I seriously, honestly thought the story was going to say she was found to be using meth.

[Warof2010]

This is very sad. It sounds like she may be very mentally Ill. I think before she is condemned an estensive mental evaluation needs to be done ASAP.

mjakIt seems that apparently she was so driven, or pushed, in her studies, that she entirely missed out on social normalization, usually taught by a peer group.

However, we have to admit, she was very well schooled in preparation for the task at hand.

Maybe that is why it has been said, "moderation in all things" and "balance, balance, balance."

[Warof2010]

When I saw her pictures on the FoxNews website (see post #3) I seriously, honestly thought the story was going to say she was found to be using meth.Whoa, that's a horrid picture--she does look like a meth addict.

[Warof2010]

Something broke, and she became completely disconnected with reality. I wonder if there was any sign of weird behavior prior to this incident??

[Amraann]

I think any way you slice it, in this situation, the diaper-wearing was weird.

This woman is either mentally ill or on something. If you contrast her astronaut photo with her mugshot, there's a huge difference.

Steve

Exactly! Its one thing to wear the diaper for her job ... its a complete other to wear it to make better time to kidnap some rival.
I mean she had to stop to put gas in the car... why not take a restroom break then?
Who would willingly piss themselves? I am guessing that the diaper wearing when going to or from space is due to some not controllable bodily function.

[concernedperson]

Something broke, and she became completely disconnected with reality. I wonder if there was any sign of weird behavior prior to this incident??

I bet there was but small things at first....people would explain it as eccentricity. She is now in deep doo doo.

[southcitymom]

When I saw her pictures on the FoxNews website (see post #3) I seriously, honestly thought the story was going to say she was found to be using meth.
Me too!

[englishleigh]

If you read the list of the supplies she had with her, it sounds like she meant to commit a murder. I predict more charges for her before long.

[mom3dd]

When I saw her pictures on the FoxNews website (see post #3) I seriously, honestly thought the story was going to say she was found to be using meth.
My take also.

[nanandjim]

If you read the list of the supplies she had with her, it sounds like she meant to commit a murder. I predict more charges for her before long.
I agree that it is very fortunate that she was arrested before she could do anything. The things that she had with her do sound like she wanted to kidnap and murder the other woman. The other woman is extremely fortunate.

I'm speculating here, but I think that her "almost" romantic relationship with the other astronaut was in her mind. She's married, but I would be willing to bet that she is very unhappy in her marriage. I think that the male astronaut probably befriended her and she took it to mean that he liked her.

In the meantime, he's single and probably has a relationship with this other gal. Nowak thinks, in her sick mind that if she can get rid of her rival, he will be all hers. How much do you want to bet that her budding relationship has come to a complete halt and perhaps her marriage?

I believe that she needs to get help. I don't think that her demented mentality developed overnight.

I once befriended a male manager at work. Hell, I didn't even like him in a romantic way. His ex-girlfriend stalked him and me. She slashed both of our car tires. She called nonstop. She keyed and egged my car. She broke into my apartment and assaulted me. We all worked for the same company. She was actually a manager who was jeopardizing her job. I can tell you that I dumped him as a friend because I didn't need that kind of headache. I took her to court for the assault and trespassing. It was a nightmare. For the life of me, I can't understand why a woman would act this way over a man. Plus, does a woman really think that this is a way to get or keep a man?? I don't think so... :eek:

[ljwf22]

Here's William Oefelein's NASA bio: http://www.jsc.nasa.gov/Bios/htmlbios/oefelein.html

[nanandjim]

Here's William Oefelein's NASA bio: http://www.jsc.nasa.gov/Bios/htmlbios/oefelein.html
I want to see a photo of Colleen Shipman. I wonder if there is one available. Isn't she a NASA engineer?

[ljwf22]

Here are some more details:

"Dressed in a wig and a trench coat, she waited for Shipman's plane to land and then boarded the same airport shuttle bus Shipman took to get to her car, police said. Shipman told police she noticed someone following her, hurried inside the car and locked the doors, according to the arrest affidavit.

Nowak rapped on the window, tried to open the car door and asked for a ride. Shipman refused but rolled down the car window a few inches when Nowak started crying, the statement said. Nowak then sprayed a chemical into Shipman's car, the affidavit said. Shipman drove to the parking lot booth and police were called.

An officer reported following Nowak and watching her throw away a bag containing the wig and BB gun. Police also found a steel mallet, a 4-inch folding knife, rubber tubing, $600 and garbage bags inside a bag Nowak was carrying when she was arrested, authorities said.

Two other astronauts attended the hearing. Steve Lindsey, commander of Nowak's Discovery flight last July, testified that Nowak would obey the conditions of her release.

Chris Ferguson, a pilot on the mission, also attended the hearing. Asked afterward about Nowak's behavior, Ferguson said "perplexed is the word I'm sticking with."

Link: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070206/ap_on_re_us/astronaut_arrested

[Amraann]

What was she going to do with a BBgun?

[Lacy Wood]

Lisa Nowak is now released on bond of $15,500. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/06/us/06cnd-astronaut.html?hp&ex=1170824400&en=71a9bbaa8c20eb8a&ei=5094&partner=homepage

The plastic bags, knife, latex gloves, and steel mallet suggest a killing and body disposal of course. The BB gun was a CO2 pellet gun with a fair amount of power, but I don't know if it's lethal for a human. Her claim of "confronting" only is an obvious lie since Nowak planned for absolute secrecy, and not even being seen going into a rest stop or gas station bath room (the diapers)...that would be unnecessary if a living witness was left behind to a confrontation only.

I'd say she's a suicide risk for sure, since she's likely losing it all...a Navy Captain (equivalent to Army Colonel) whose career and retirement is gone if convicted of a felony, career destroyed even if she heads for rehab for some hypothetical demons, and the marriage with 3 kids has to be in terminal free fall you'd think. What a story. NASA must be in shock and turmoil over this.

[ljwf22]

From Reuters:
"Nowak, who grew up in Rockville, Maryland, and attended the U.S. Naval Academy, became an astronaut in 1996 and waited 10 years for her first space flight. She was scheduled to be a lead commentator on the next shuttle flight, a key role for an astronaut on the ground."

I think we can assume she'll not be commentatoring. Link: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070206/od_nm/usa_astronauts_dc;_ylt=AtZi.16C80RcB8ITTve.7z_MWM0 F;_ylu=X3oDMTA3NW1oMDRpBHNlYwM3NTc-

[ljwf22]

I want to see a photo of Colleen Shipman. I wonder if there is one available. Isn't she a NASA engineer?
She's an Air Force captain, according to one of the stories I read.

[PaperDoll]

Here's William Oefelein's NASA bio: http://www.jsc.nasa.gov/Bios/htmlbios/oefelein.html

Nice looking man :p

[PaperDoll]

I wonder what happened to make this woman snap. She is a pretty lady in her before pic, but the after one? oh my, she looks beat up.. Sad..

[Lacy Wood]

Lisa Nowak is now released on bond of $15,500. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/06/us/06cnd-astronaut.html?hp&ex=1170824400&en=71a9bbaa8c20eb8a&ei=5094&partner=homepage

The plastic bags, knife, latex gloves, and steel mallet suggest a killing and body disposal of course. The BB gun was a CO2 pellet gun with a fair amount of power, but I don't know if it's lethal for a human. Her claim of "confronting" only is an obvious lie since Nowak planned for absolute secrecy, and not even being seen going into a rest stop or gas station bath room (the diapers)...that would be unnecessary if a living witness was left behind to a confrontation only.

I'd say she's a suicide risk for sure, since she's likely losing it all...a Navy Captain (equivalent to Army Colonel) whose career and retirement is gone if convicted of a felony, career destroyed even if she heads for rehab for some hypothetical demons, and the marriage with 3 kids has to be in terminal free fall you'd think. What a story. NASA must be in shock and turmoil over this.
UPDATE: Bond deal has been cancelled as new charges filed according to CNN.

[englishleigh]

They are now reporting that she has been charged with attempted murder.
She is freaking toast b/c the kidnapping charge was already carrying a possible life sentence. I can't believe this chick snapped like this!!! :doh: I thought those items she had with her seemed very ominous. Holy moley.

[concernedperson]

Fox saying attempted lst degree murder. Whoa!

[nanandjim]

Fox saying attempted lst degree murder. Whoa!
I don't know how they can prove this charge. I would think that assault (due to the pepper spray) and possibly attempted kidnapping. I do believe that she would have murdered this woman had her plans not been derailed. However, I don't know how they are going to prove the attempted murder charge.

[Lacy Wood]

Problem is she may have been stopped short of what could be called an actual "attempt", and there is no "conspiracy" of one person. The best charge will probably be a federal case for crossing state lines with intent to commit the crime of murder, or kidnapping.

[concernedperson]

I don't know how they can prove this charge. I would think that assault (due to the pepper spray) and possibly attempted kidnapping. I do believe that she would have murdered this woman had her plans not been derailed. However, I don't know how they are going to prove the attempted murder charge.

Because of all the apparatus she was carrying around...murder tools and disposal items. If Shipman had been knocked unconscience she could have jumped in her car and taken off with her bag of goodies. She also had cash to get back to her parked car at the hotel.

[nanandjim]

Because of all the apparatus she was carrying around...murder tools and disposal items. If Shipman had been knocked unconscience she could have jumped in her car and taken off with her bag of goodies. She also had cash to get back to her parked car at the hotel.
Fox news commentator is saying that he speculates that she has said something during her interview that would lead to the attempted murder charge because just having the apparatus is not enough for such a charge. That's my thinking, too.

[Glow]

Ok I 'll ask..........

what was the rubber tubing for?

In the bag was the BB gun, a steel mallet, a 4-inch folding knife, $600, garbage bags and rubber tubing :confused:

what would THAT be used for? :eek:

[englishleigh]

Rubber tubing??

Restraining a victim...strangling a victim....that's all I can think of. My mind won't "go there" as to what else!!!!!!

[Smurf]

Wow, such a descent into some kind of maddness. In her NASA photo she looks so healthy and normal. What would make a person think she could kidnap and kill a woman who possible didn't even know her and then not get caught and win her man and live happily ever after? What did she plan to do with her husband and twins?

[Peter Hamilton]

I wonder what happened to make this woman snap. She is a pretty lady in her before pic, but the after one? oh my, she looks beat up.. Sad..--That's because she got caught and she knows she just ruined her life

[curious1]

She looks like 2 different people. Wonder if she's bi-polar? I mean she has the highs where shes successful in her career and then the lows where she becomes sobsessed maybe? I dunno.

[Warof2010]

I don't know how they can prove this charge. I would think that assault (due to the pepper spray) and possibly attempted kidnapping. I do believe that she would have murdered this woman had her plans not been derailed. However, I don't know how they are going to prove the attempted murder charge.I agree with you naj.

[PaperDoll]

I was just wondering what made her snap in the first place.. I wonder what her marriage is like and why she would go this far.. She wasted her life away just for this one man... I wonder what Oefeleins thinks of all this..I wonder what his story is.. I'd like to hear from him...

[santos1014]

She is married w/ 3 kids- I haven't seen anywhere if the other 2 are married and/ or have families.

[gaia]

Wow, Curious1, you must be reading my mind! I'm bi-polar and the first thought about this woman's behavior was she has the same disease. I've never wanted to hurt anyone or anything, but I've driven hundreds of miles to "take a vacation" without my family, spent too much money, and thought I was a "catch" for any guy I saw. Of course, this behavior happened many years ago when I was young, but she fits right in doesn't she?:cool:

[Warof2010]

Ok I 'll ask..........

what was the rubber tubing for?

In the bag was the BB gun, a steel mallet, a 4-inch folding knife, $600, garbage bags and rubber tubing :confused:

what would THAT be used for? :eek:The rubber tubing would function well as a tourniquet, used to prevent excessive bleeding, while she severed the limbs by malleting the knife through the joints, until she managed to get the severed limbs, and torso, into all those plastic bags.

[Smurf]

I read where he is not married but does have children; divorced I assume. I don't know about the intended victim though.

[santos1014]

The rubber tubing would function well as a tourniquet, used to prevent excessive bleeding, while she severed the limbs by malleting the knife through the joints, until she managed to get the severed limbs, and torso, into all those plastic bags.
:Note to self...never make Buzz angry:::D

[Smurf]

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20070206/i/r2637839185.jpg?x=243&y=345&sig=nDPnXPLhy75HQILY7oE1PQ--
He is a nice looking man....




http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/afp/20070206/capt.sge.pno22.060207163332.photo01.photo.default-409x512.jpg?x=275&y=345&sig=7lZ04_Dl0X9aJBKCMw0u3w--
And she was a nice looking woman...not so much now though which is why I am thinking some drug use might not be out of the question.

[KatK]

She is married w/ 3 kids- I haven't seen anywhere if the other 2 are married and/ or have families.
Colleen and Bill both are single.

[englishleigh]

The rubber tubing would function well as a tourniquet, used to prevent excessive bleeding, while she severed the limbs by malleting the knife through the joints, until she managed to get the severed limbs, and torso, into all those plastic bags.


OMG, Buzz, you scare me!!! :blowkiss:

[Glow]

The rubber tubing would function well as a tourniquet, used to prevent excessive bleeding, while she severed the limbs by malleting the knife through the joints, until she managed to get the severed limbs, and torso, into all those plastic bags.


That makes sense Buzz.


She sounds obsessive and extremely territorial. Just because the relationship was not physically romantic, did that mean that it was not emotionally romantic as well? The article doesn't indicate. Anyone associated with the space program is given a battery of tests, including psychological. So I am assuming she passed them with no negative outstanding characteristics or tendencies alerting them. So what made her snap like that? I think it will be interesting to find out what role (if any) Oefelein plays in all of this.

[englishleigh]

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20070206/i/r2637839185.jpg?x=243&y=345&sig=nDPnXPLhy75HQILY7oE1PQ--
He is a nice looking man....

Yes, he is!! I wouldn't commit a crime for him, though. :doh: :bang:

[Smurf]

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20070206/capt.ny11802060230.astronaut_arrested_ny118.jpg?x= 250&y=345&sig=MGcZFvFtRHxhkrdg0EO15A--

She is starting to look rough in this pic from June of 06. The teeth are deteriorating; isn't that a sign of drug use? (the teeth and skin usually tell the tale) I just can't see what else could make her flip out and plan what it sounds like she was planning. The bi-polar angle could work too I guess.

[KatK]

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20070206/capt.ny11802060230.astronaut_arrested_ny118.jpg?x= 250&y=345&sig=MGcZFvFtRHxhkrdg0EO15A--

She is starting to look rough in this pic from June of 06. The teeth are deteriorating; isn't that a sign of drug use? (the teeth and skin usually tell the tale) I just can't see what else could make her flip out and plan what it sounds like she was planning. The bi-polar angle could work too I guess.Those look like braces of some kind to me, not tooth decay. The spots are in line... :confused:

[JDB]

The rubber tubing would function well as a tourniquet, used to prevent excessive bleeding, while she severed the limbs by malleting the knife through the joints, until she managed to get the severed limbs, and torso, into all those plastic bags.
Hey Buzz please tell us this is from reading!! Not from experince. maybe I am living to close to you :eek: :eek:

[Smurf]

Her teeth are very nice and straight in her posed orange suit Nasa picture. Now they are all jagged and pointy. I am not seeing anything that looks like braces.

[PaperDoll]

:Note to self...never make Buzz angry:::D

LOL... I'm with you on that one... :chicken:

[PaperDoll]

That makes sense Buzz.


She sounds obsessive and extremely territorial. Just because the relationship was not physically romantic, did that mean that it was not emotionally romantic as well? The article doesn't indicate. Anyone associated with the space program is given a battery of tests, including psychological. So I am assuming she passed them with no negative outstanding characteristics or tendencies alerting them. So what made her snap like that? I think it will be interesting to find out what role (if any) Oefelein plays in all of this.
I'd like to know as well..

[KatK]

Her teeth are very nice and straight in her posed orange suit Nasa picture. Now they are all jagged and pointy. I am not seeing anything that looks like braces.
I see what you mean now, the chip? I was talking about the barely discernable line going across about the middle of her teeth in the picture you linked. They look like braces, and the way she is holding her mouth is how people who've had braces smile too. (Had a good friend who had braces for years, starting in the mid-eighties.)

[JDB]

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20070206/capt.ny11802060230.astronaut_arrested_ny118.jpg?x= 250&y=345&sig=MGcZFvFtRHxhkrdg0EO15A--

She is starting to look rough in this pic from June of 06. The teeth are deteriorating; isn't that a sign of drug use? (the teeth and skin usually tell the tale) I just can't see what else could make her flip out and plan what it sounds like she was planning. The bi-polar angle could work too I guess.
Smurf: This Pic was taken during the presser when they returned back to earth.It was taken days after the Pic of her in the Flight suit. I do not think she can change that quick.

[Smurf]

Both of my daughters are needing braces right now (no dental insurance). I will scape it together and get it done because I don't want them to have to deal with braces as adults. It must take alot longer to move teeth around in an adult.

[WhiteWolf]

In one of the posted articles it says she had directions to Shipman's house and emails between CS and BO. I wonder how she came to have emails from between CS and BO?

Also, she paid cash for motel and fuel from Houston and Orlando. She must not have wanted a paper trail between the two.

I wonder if LE found her "to do" list?

[PaperDoll]

I read the article and maybe I missed this part, but how did Nowak know that Shipman was at the airport? How did she know her home address, if indeed she did.

[Smurf]

Smurf: This Pic was taken during the presser when they returned back to earth.It was taken days after the Pic of her in the Flight suit. I do not think she can change that quick.
I realize that there is alot of time between pictures. Just saying how rough she looks now as opposed to some of the other healthy pictures I am seeing of her.

Reminds me of Whitney Houston's trainwreck descent into drug addiction. Talk about someone having major talent and being on top of the world and nearly losing it all for that good ole 'whack crack' (and bad taste in men).

[englishleigh]

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20070206/capt.ny11802060230.astronaut_arrested_ny118.jpg?x= 250&y=345&sig=MGcZFvFtRHxhkrdg0EO15A--

She is starting to look rough in this pic from June of 06. The teeth are deteriorating; isn't that a sign of drug use? (the teeth and skin usually tell the tale) I just can't see what else could make her flip out and plan what it sounds like she was planning. The bi-polar angle could work too I guess.

If she were doing meth at that point, they would have found out b/c they have all kinds of medical tests before going into space, which she did in July 2006.

[englishleigh]

In one of the posted articles it says she had directions to Shipman's house and emails between CS and BO. I wonder how she came to have emails from between CS and BO?

Also, she paid cash for motel and fuel from Houston and Orlando. She must not have wanted a paper trail between the two.

I wonder if LE found her "to do" list?

I'm betting she somehow stole BO's email password and got into his email account. More charges there?? She may even know how to hack computers, with her training.

I definitely believe she meant to rid herself of CS....she must have felt she was the only thing standing in the way of her having this guy.

[j2mirish]

I read the article and maybe I missed this part, but how did Nowak know that Shipman was at the airport? How did she know her home address, if indeed she did.Good question pd---- maybe the emails she had from the 2 gave the info and that is what set her off-- do we know where he lives?

[kgeaux]

This belongs in Bizarre News! :rolleyes: How far this astronaut has fallen! She was really pretty in her astronaut picturehttp://www.foxnews.com/images/root_images/astronaut_love_triangle.jpg (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,250415,00.html), now she's thrown her career away, one that a lot of people would gladly have.


She looks like the before and after pictures of methamphetimine users!

[WhiteWolf]

I read the article and maybe I missed this part, but how did Nowak know that Shipman was at the airport? How did she know her home address, if indeed she did.


LE found directions to Shipman's house in Nowak's stuff.

[PaperDoll]

Good question pd---- maybe the emails she had from the 2 gave the info and that is what set her off-- do we know where he lives?
Gosh, I'll have to go back and read the article again to find out where he lives.. He emails make sense, but I even wonder how she got a hold of those? boy, nothing is private anymore..

[WhiteWolf]

CNN reporting Nowak will be back in court today at 4pm EST to face charges on the new 1st degree attempted murder charge.

[j2mirish]

Gosh, I'll have to go back and read the article again to find out where he lives.. He emails make sense, but I even wonder how she got a hold of those? boy, nothing is private anymore..
maybe one or the other sent them to her? who know--- what a mess- I just cant imagine how someone with her family & career can get so wrapped up in a "dream" to end up like this- I am having trouble even saying I feel sorry for her- cause at this point- I dont

[Amraann]

It does not even look like the same women.


Buzz, although I appreciate your imagination... I was thinking the hose was for like beating her... The first thing that occured to me was how police use to beat people with rubber hoses because it left no marks.

[Smurf]

If she had directions to Shipman's house then I wonder why she wanted to be at the airport waiting for her. I would assume the big rush to get there would be so she wouldn't be missing from home for too long of a time period; but why not just go and hide at her house and wait. An airport is an awfully busy place to be seen trying to kidnap someone. I guess she tought her disguise was enough.

[englishleigh]

I'm confused as to how she timed her arrival in Orlando to exactly coincide with when CS would be landing there. And if she was in such a hurry, why not fly herself, or maybe she didn't want her name showing up on a passenger manifest on a flight to Orlando, which makes me think even more that she intended to kill this woman.

What the heck did she tell her husband as to why she'd be gone for so long and why she was driving and not flying? Are her kids teenagers so it was easier to leave them for so long? It's all going to be very interesting.

[JDB]

She looks like the before and after pictures of methamphetimine users!
Call me crazy. But her looks be because hse had been traveling with no sleep. Possibly taking No Doze to stay awake?I know when I was driving Truck I was up over 24 hours with a co-driver. Pulled in the Truck stop and I looked dead beat tired.

[WhiteWolf]

If she had directions to Shipman's house then I wonder why she wanted to be at the airport waiting for her. I would assume the big rush to get there would be so she wouldn't be missing from home for too long of a time period; but why not just go and hide at her house and wait. An airport is an awfully busy place to be seen trying to kidnap someone. I guess she tought her disguise was enough.


Shipman's plane landed sometime around midnight so maybe the parking garage was fairly empty at that time? Novak may have figured she'd try to grab Shipman in the parking garage because of the element of suprise.

[j2mirish]

Call me crazy. But her looks be because hse had been traveling with no sleep. Possibly taking No Doze to stay awake?I know when I was driving Truck I was up over 24 hours with a co-driver. Pulled in the Truck stop and I looked dead beat tired.
the 2 pics would "appear" to be very very different, meth would sound like a good reason, but she is active in NASA, so I am having trouble believing in a drug problem, even hard for me to understand how an emotional problem would go undetected?:confused:

[mymeow]

Buzz-I agree 100% with your scenario. She sounds completely dellusional and I am relieved that CS didn't become a murder victim.
The article mentioned she had a "love letter" to BO with her. I wonder this helped with the attempted murder charge. Maybe she "confessed" her intentions in the letter.

[curious1]

The rubber tubing would function well as a tourniquet, used to prevent excessive bleeding, while she severed the limbs by malleting the knife through the joints, until she managed to get the severed limbs, and torso, into all those plastic bags.
Not that you thought anything like this through, right? :o

Should I be worried? Think maybe I'll take my city and state off my profile. :D

[Smurf]

the 2 pics would "appear" to be very very different, meth would sound like a good reason, but she is active in NASA, so I am having trouble believing in a drug problem, even hard for me to understand how an emotional problem would go undetected?:confused:
Pro athletes do it all the time and get away with it even with drug testing people who know what to look for all around all the time. Maybe Nasa doesn't normally have astronauts with meth or drug problems so she fell through the cracks so to speak. You know how addicts lie and always get their way so she could have manipulated her way out of a drug test or psych. evaluation as of late.

[Smurf]

Shipman's plane landed sometime around midnight so maybe the parking garage was fairly empty at that time? Novak may have figured she'd try to grab Shipman in the parking garage because of the element of suprise.
The fact that it was midnight would make me think Shipman would have been more cautious and watching her surroundings when going from shuttle to car in a garage or whatever than she would have in broad daylight. How could she not feel uncomfortable with this tweaky looking woman in a wig and trench coat (sometimes you can tell when someone is wearing a wig) riding your shuttle and then getting off at your same stop. What a frightful night CS must have had. She is lucky indeed.

[englishleigh]

There are already jokes being made about this, on the news, no less:

Q. How long does it take to drive from Houston to Orlando?

A. It Depends.

[PaperDoll]

There are already jokes being made about this, on the news, no less:

Q. How long does it take to drive from Houston to Orlando?

A. It Depends.
Oh my... hehe:crazy:

[Smurf]

Oh my... hehe:crazy:
I wonder if Jay Leno will do a monologue tonight.

[nanandjim]

Shipman's plane landed sometime around midnight so maybe the parking garage was fairly empty at that time? Novak may have figured she'd try to grab Shipman in the parking garage because of the element of suprise.
I would think that no one would be around at 3 a.m. Didn't I read that she got off the plane around 1 a.m. and had to wait 2 hours for her luggage?? That doesn't make sense to me unless she was filing a claim for lost luggage. It seems to me that Nowak would have been able to use the BB gun (pretending it was a real weapon) to accost her as she was putting her luggage in her trunk. If she had no luggage, she could have immediately gotten into her car, which would not have given Nowak enough time to grab her. Therefore, she had to pretend to have lost her car or whatever she said. Whatever the scenario, Connie Shipman is one lucky lady. God was watching over her that night. I now wonder what will be the status of Connie's and the guy's relationship. Perhaps, this will bring them closer. I guess that we will see...

I think that I read that Nowak had a couple of emails as well as a letter from Shipman to whatshisname professing her love. I wonder if she hacked his account and stole the letter from his mailbox. In essence, I am wondering if she has been stalking this guy for a while or if she was over at his home and stole the emails/letters that way.

[PaperDoll]

I wonder if Jay Leno will do a monologue tonight.
Oh I'm sure he won't be able to pass this one up... :laugh:

[Linda7NJ]

:loser: She thought she covered her a$$ ( lol) , she thought she'd get away with it......

[Mabel]

I wonder if Jay Leno will do a monologue tonight.

More likely he'll do it tomorrow since the show is filmed early in the day.

[ljwf22]

More likely he'll do it tomorrow since the show is filmed early in the day.
It tapes at 4:30 Pacific Time, so 7:30 Eastern.

[Mabel]

It tapes at 4:30 Pacific Time, so 7:30 Eastern.

Thanks! So there's plenty of time to work it into the monologue then.

[englishleigh]

Live court hearing on Fox News right now....defense atty. arguing the "add-on" charge.

[panthera]

Live court hearing on Fox News right now....defense atty. arguing the "add-on" charge.I've got it on also. This is a very strange case so far, and I can't help wonder if she does have an undiagnosed mental problem. :confused:

[englishleigh]

I've got it on also. This is a very strange case so far, and I can't help wonder if she does have an undiagnosed mental problem. :confused:

I think she probably does. Might have been something that the battery of pre-flight tests never diagnosed, that was only set off when she apparently became obsessed with this astronaut and his relationship with this other female. Very sad situation.

[panthera]

I think she probably does. Might have been something that the battery of pre-flight tests never diagnosed, that was only set off when she apparently became obsessed with this astronaut and his relationship with this other female. Very sad situation.I read some other posts here and don't think it's drug use, since NASA would be checking this regularly. It is very sad since she has three children who are now going to have to go through this ordeal.

[englishleigh]

I read some other posts here and don't think it's drug use, since NASA would be checking this regularly. It is very sad since she has three children who are now going to have to go through this ordeal.

Do we know how old her children are?

[panthera]

Do we know how old her children are?
Her NASA biography doesn't mention their ages.

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/2007/02/06/3540878.html

[panthera]

Latest update after Nowak's court appearance~

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16997958

Bail was set at $25,000 and Nowak must wear a GPS monitoring device.

[WhiteWolf]

I would think that no one would be around at 3 a.m. Didn't I read that she got off the plane around 1 a.m. and had to wait 2 hours for her luggage?? That doesn't make sense to me unless she was filing a claim for lost luggage. It seems to me that Nowak would have been able to use the BB gun (pretending it was a real weapon) to accost her as she was putting her luggage in her trunk. If she had no luggage, she could have immediately gotten into her car, which would not have given Nowak enough time to grab her. Therefore, she had to pretend to have lost her car or whatever she said. Whatever the scenario, Connie Shipman is one lucky lady. God was watching over her that night. I now wonder what will be the status of Connie's and the guy's relationship. Perhaps, this will bring them closer. I guess that we will see...

I think that I read that Nowak had a couple of emails as well as a letter from Shipman to whatshisname professing her love. I wonder if she hacked his account and stole the letter from his mailbox. In essence, I am wondering if she has been stalking this guy for a while or if she was over at his home and stole the emails/letters that way.


Did you listen to the second hearing today? I thought it was said Nowak obtained information about Shipman from BO's computer without his permission, but I don't know if that means hacking his email or taking the info directly from his computer.

I wonder what the testimony was that the DA didn't want to reveal in court to support raising the charges to attempted murder?

I'm glad the judge added a larger bond and more protection for Shipman with regards to the GPS tracking device for Nowak.

[panthera]

Did you listen to the second hearing today? I thought it was said Nowak obtained information about Shipman from BO's computer without his permission, but I don't know if that means hacking his email or taking the info directly from his computer.

I wonder what the testimony was that the DA didn't want to reveal in court to support raising the charges to attempted murder?

I'm glad the judge added a larger bond and more protection for Shipman with regards to the GPS tracking device for Nowak.I watched it and was wondering what the DA was referring to also. I did understand that Nowak allegedly was armed with a BB gun and pepper spray, but her attorney argued that the BB gun wasn't operable. LE found a pepper spray package, an unused BB-gun cartridge, latex gloves and e-mails between Oefelein and Colleen Shipman inside Nowak's car.

[T-Rex]

Ha ha re: Depends and Leno!

How would you like to go on a long trip in small, enclosed quarters with her?!

[LionRun]

The first thing that came to my mind when hearing about this was that she may have a severe manifestation of a personality disorder. She planned it unbelievably well, so I believe she is fully sane. Someone with a personality disorder is not at all necessarily legally, "insane".

She also seems to be a tad bit obsessive. Well, more like over the top of a mountain in that area. And, since this was planned better than any murder mystery writer of fiction could probably ever imagine, buzz's theory may be correct.

I am very glad that she was caught before she could commit murder. She is very dangerous, and I hope she receives a long prison term for the safety of whoever gets in her way.

Lion

[panthera]

The first thing that came to my mind when hearing about this was that she may have a severe manifestation of a personality disorder. She planned it unbelievably well, so I believe she is fully sane. Someone with a personality disorder is not at all necessarily legally, "insane".

She also seems to be a tad bit obsessive. Well, more like over the top of a mountain in that area. And, since this was planned better than any murder mystery writer of fiction could probably ever imagine, buzz's theory may be correct.

I am very glad that she was caught before she could commit murder. She is very dangerous, and I hope she receives a long prison term for the safety of whoever gets in her way.

LionI'm hoping that since she's going to be free on bail that she gets a thorough psychiatric evaluation.

[WhiteWolf]

She thought no one would ever suspect her, and she is already using her astronaut status to get her preferential treatment and consideration. Her attorney kept saying it was a mistake, I already don't like him.

[panthera]

She thought no one would ever suspect her, and she is already using her astronaut status to get her preferential treatment and consideration. Her attorney kept saying it was a mistake, I already don't like him.A 900 mile mistake. Ok, whatever! :rolleyes:

[LNL]

Her NASA biography doesn't mention their ages.

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/2007/02/06/3540878.html
I read somewhere that her son is 14, a freshman in high school and her twin daughters are 5.

[Amraann]

Both charges seem extreme to me...


How do they know she was going to kidnap the women rather then kill her right there in the airport parking lot? The attempted murder charge seems extreme as well since all she really did was knock on the car window.

I am not saying she is not a complete loon.. just that I don't think they have the legal evidence to convict her.

[mesnowmom123]

Both charges seem extreme to me...


How do they know she was going to kidnap the women rather then kill her right there in the airport parking lot? The attempted murder charge seems extreme as well since all she really did was knock on the car window.

I am not saying she is not a complete loon.. just that I don't think they have the legal evidence to convict her.
I would have to agree with you (on the lack of evidence) otherwise why would her bail be only $15K on attempted kidnapping and $10K on attempted murder??? Seems rather low if they feel she might be guilty of both charges, don't you think?

[PaperDoll]

Both charges seem extreme to me...


How do they know she was going to kidnap the women rather then kill her right there in the airport parking lot? The attempted murder charge seems extreme as well since all she really did was knock on the car window.

I am not saying she is not a complete loon.. just that I don't think they have the legal evidence to convict her.
I agree on this.. She didn't kill the woman and she didn't kidnapp her either.. She simply used pepper spray. However, she did have evidence that doesn't look good.. hum.. I wonder how this is going to turn out..

[panthera]

I read somewhere that her son is 14, a freshman in high school and her twin daughters are 5.Thanks! I hadn't been able to find that, but it's still really sad for the kids.

[panthera]

I agree on this.. She didn't kill the woman and she didn't kidnapp her either.. She simply used pepper spray. However, she did have evidence that doesn't look good.. hum.. I wonder how this is going to turn out..I'd think that they'd have enough evidence for the attempted kidnapping, vehicle burglary, etc. but the attempted murder conviction might rely on the steel mallet, knife, rubber tubing and large garbage bags found in her possession. It also seems to me that the $25,000 bail and GPS device were because of her "status" whereas someone else might still be in jail.

[Smurf]

Yeah it's sad; they will only be able to see her through glass; all over a man too.

[panthera]

Yeah it's sad; they will only be able to see her through glass; all over a man too.I'll be curious to see how her husband reacts to this.

[heavenlydaze]

Hope this link works...
http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/lf/English/6_1_1.asp?id=152

there was at least ten days during a training session where these two(William Oefelein and Lisa Nowak) were together, along with other astronauts, in a survival exercise.

The USAF link to this article seems to have been removed...this one is still up.

Don't know if it means anything...probably not...I'm just being a 'sleuther'.

[Amraann]

She just posted bail....

She looks nothing like the photo shown.

[lightwaveryder]

love makes you crazy.

unrequited love, can make you REALLY crazy.

but charging her with attempted murder, i disagree entirely.
no one shows up to a murder scene with a bb gun.

i think she will be found innocent of attempted murder.
stalking maybe, assault. not murder.
i think she even knew she was up **** creek and was about
to just beat that other womans ass and leave.




~lwr~

[Smurf]

love makes you crazy.

unrequited love, can make you REALLY crazy.

but charging her with attempted murder, i disagree entirely.
no one shows up to a murder scene with a bb gun.

i think she will be found innocent of attempted murder.
stalking maybe, assault. not murder.
i think she even knew she was up **** creek and was about
to just beat that other womans ass and leave.




~lwr~
What about the hammer, knife, gloves and trash bags. What was she going to do with them?

How do you get from sailing, rubber stamping, gourmet cooking and a love of african violets to driving 900 miles in a diaper to supposedly scare a lady who is exchanging e-mails with the man you want but isn't your husband? How do you get there?

[WhiteWolf]

Shipman flew from Houston to Orlando, if Nowak just wanted to talk to her, why didn't she talk to Shipman in Houston? Nowak had to know for a few days that Shipman was going to fly to Orlando.

[panthera]

Shipman flew from Houston to Orlando, if Nowak just wanted to talk to her, why didn't she talk to Shipman in Houston? Nowak had to know for a few days that Shipman was going to fly to Orlando.Yes,exactly, why drive 900 miles just to talk with someone she could've seen in Houston~ with the disguise and the knife and steel mallet? Sounds to me like she wanted more than just to scare her and talk.

[concernedperson]

We wouldn't ever excuse a guy who was acting this way and having the same paraphenalia in his grip. Why should we excuse her? Astronaut or Cosmonaut, she intended harm. NASA may take her under protective wrap until trial but no one can say a RO would have worked in a normal situation.

She is crazy and a criminal...what's new?

[Warof2010]

It does not even look like the same women.


Buzz, although I appreciate your imagination... I was thinking the hose was for like beating her... The first thing that occured to me was how police use to beat people with rubber hoses because it left no marks.What hose Amraann?? I didn't see rubber hose mentioned. They use the rubber tubing, to raise the veins, when I go in, about once a year, to have a blood test, and then after they successfully get the needle in, they release the rubber tubing, and fill up all of the containers; usually three, sometimes four.

Buck knives are very strong; in fact I think they are advertised as having the ability to cut through bone. The steel mallet could be used to pound in the back of the blade to drive it through the bone. The plastic bags; I am assuming black plastic bags, speak for themselves, as well as the latex/or nitrile gloves. She saw on CSI, and Forensic Files, that oxidized crazy glue will bring out fingerprints on plastic bags--thus the need for gloves.

http://www.buckknives.com/catalog/detail/224/238

[Floh]

In space no one can hear you scream.

[panthera]

In space no one can hear you scream.What a scary thought, but you're right, what if ~ :eek:

[Warof2010]

In space no one can hear you scream.It depends on whether you have the two way radio in your space suit turned on, and then whether anyone is listening.

[Warof2010]

What about the hammer, knife, gloves and trash bags. What was she going to do with them?

How do you get from sailing, rubber stamping, gourmet cooking and a love of african violets to driving 900 miles in a diaper to supposedly scare a lady who is exchanging e-mails with the man you want but isn't your husband? How do you get there?Men keep driving women crazy--usually the man is the one who gets attacked---LOL---just kidding, of course; sorry ladies, I just couldn't resist that one. ZIP MY LIPS.

[Warof2010]

This sounds like a movie in the making--at least a made-for-TV movie, but what about the book?.

[nanandjim]

Her NASA biography doesn't mention their ages.
That second article that you posted said that she has a teenage son and younger twin daughters. I guess that she planned to be back by the next day. After all, she had diapers to aid in a nonstop drive. My husband will want me to get some of these diapers as I have to stop every 10 minutes when we are on a trip. :blushing:

[panthera]

That second article that you posted said that she has a teenage son and younger twin daughters. I guess that she planned to be back by the next day. After all, she had diapers to aid in a nonstop drive. My husband will want me to get some of these diapers as I have to stop every 10 minutes when we are on a trip. :blushing:I saw that too in the updated article. Too funny :laugh: about your husband!

[nanandjim]

She thought no one would ever suspect her, and she is already using her astronaut status to get her preferential treatment and consideration. Her attorney kept saying it was a mistake, I already don't like him.
I was part of the military aviation community for a substantial amount of time. You wouldn't believe the number of scandals and incidences that are always going on and being swept under the rug. I think that it comes with the territory.

These people are really driven. That type of personality sometimes goes awry. My ex-husband, who also was a Naval Academy grad with impeccable credentials, stalked me when I separated from him. :eek:

[panthera]

Men keep driving women crazy--usually the man is the one who gets attacked---LOL---just kidding, of course; sorry ladies, I just couldn't resist that one. ZIP MY LIPS.I'm not defending her, so no problem about your comment! :D

[nanandjim]

Hope this link works...
http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/lf/English/6_1_1.asp?id=152

there was at least ten days during a training session where these two(William Oefelein and Lisa Nowak) were together, along with other astronauts, in a survival exercise.

The USAF link to this article seems to have been removed...this one is still up.

Don't know if it means anything...probably not...I'm just being a 'sleuther'.
This training was just recently, wasn't it? I bet that they were lovers. She just doesn't want to say so because of her marital status. I just do not believe that a woman would go to this extreme unless she were head over heels for the guy.

[Warof2010]

I was part of the military aviation community for a substantial amount of time. You wouldn't believe the number of scandals and incidences that are always going on and being swept under the rug. I think that it comes with the territory.

These people are really driven. That type of personality sometimes goes awry. My ex-husband, who also was a Naval Academy grad with impeccable credentials, stalked me when I separated from him. :eek:naj, please post your pic; you keep driving men crazy...........................

[Warof2010]

I wonder what HE is saying????

[kahskye]

I'm sorry if this has been answered, but I don't have time to read through all of this. I'm just curious what she told her husband and children as to where she was going. Also, say she did something awful to the defendant, what next? Exactly where was she going w/ this plan? Was she willing to walk away from her marriage and children?

[Trino]

She, undoubtedly, will have a mental evaluation but whatever the results, I doubt she'll ever fly again. NASA won't take a chance on someone who might be mentally unstable. I'll bet right now someone is taking heat for not recognizing problems with her.

I doubt she'll be convicted for kidnapping and/or attempted murder, but I think she'll end up divorced. Her poor husband and children must be going through hell right now. Has anyone heard a comment from them? Has her husband come to her defense?

It sure makes you wonder if she did have an affair; her obsession seems pretty strong for someone to have simply befriended her.

[Lacy Wood]

How do they know she was going to kidnap the women rather then kill her right there in the airport parking lot? The attempted murder charge seems extreme as well since all she really did was knock on the car window.

I am not saying she is not a complete loon.. just that I don't think they have the legal evidence to convict her.

LE is notorious for overcharging with unprovable things that juries are forced to reject. If they have no confession that she started an attempt to kill or kidnap, or a written /computer confirmation of such a plan, or a witness, accomplice, or "co-conspirator", then those charges might well fail if they got to court. And there's no "conspiracy" if it's just one person. You go to a bank thinking you may rob it only to find it closed, you've committed no crime. There are limitations on being charged for what you're thinking about, or once thought about doing.

As I stated back on page 2, the best case may well be a federal case related to crossing state lines with weapons, in furtherance of a plan to commmit murder or kidnapping. That would allow the Feds to assert an intent to kill or kidnap based on items in the car and circumstances that isn't hampered by not getting the final execution of the scheme fully into play. States do not have such a charge available. Otherwise it may come down to just state charges of assault by spraying with pepper spray.

[WhiteWolf]

Are there still reapercusions in the military for having an affair? I remember some woman in the military (in the news) being busted for having an affair. I don't know if he would be in trouble since he isn't married. Reason I'm asking is it was mentioned by someone on the news.

[panthera]

She, undoubtedly, will have a mental evaluation but whatever the results, I doubt she'll ever fly again. NASA won't take a chance on someone who might be mentally unstable. I'll bet right now someone is taking heat for not recognizing problems with her.

I doubt she'll be convicted for kidnapping and/or attempted murder, but I think she'll end up divorced. Her poor husband and children must be going through hell right now. Has anyone heard a comment from them? Has her husband come to her defense?

It sure makes you wonder if she did have an affair; her obsession seems pretty strong for someone to have simply befriended her.It seems that NASA has already suspended her from mission training according to the news on CNN. I haven't read or heard anything from her husband either.

[michelle]

This lady is obviously mentally disturbed. She had on diapers? She is married...the wig the bb gun the knife..yeah she is in big trouble now. :snooty: What a waste of a brain because she had it all.LOL, Oh my gosh I was laughing at that, I am sorry, is that rude? :innocent:

[michelle]

This woman's shuttle definatly does not go all the way up. I can't believe someone would where diapers like that. Weird!

[nanandjim]

naj, please post your pic; you keep driving men crazy...........................
Oh, it's been posted in one of the Jury Room threads. I'm the one with the handsome husband next to me. ;)

[Warof2010]

SNIP

I can't believe someone would where diapers like that. Weird!Let's hope all of your husbands don't hear about that, otherwise when you get ready to go a road trip, it will be "Diaper Up."

[michelle]

Let's hope all of your husbands don't hear about that, otherwise when you get ready to go a road trip, it will be "Diaper Up."Oh Buzz, you are too funny. I know my DH would be in line to get them for me, lol...

[narlacat]

That second article that you posted said that she has a teenage son and younger twin daughters. I guess that she planned to be back by the next day. After all, she had diapers to aid in a nonstop drive. My husband will want me to get some of these diapers as I have to stop every 10 minutes when we are on a trip. :blushing:

I couldn't believe that!

She meant business lol

Imagine driving along peeing in your nappy, ew, god what about a no.2, double ew :hand:

[nanandjim]

...it may come down to just state charges of assault by spraying with pepper spray.
Personally, this is all I think that they have unless she has said something incriminating in her interview with police or if they found a "To Do" list. I just don't see how they can charge her with even the attempted kidnapping. She wasn't in the car and never had possession of the woman. As you said, she can have the thoughts and even the equipment. However, she didn't actually do anything except use her pepper spray. Heck, she could even say that the woman did something to her first. SELF DEFENSE!! ;)

[ljwf22]

Let's hope all of your husbands don't hear about that, otherwise when you get ready to go a road trip, it will be "Diaper Up."
They still have to stop for gas. :p

I can't imagine her vehicle went 900 miles without a fillup or two.

[narlacat]

Let's hope all of your husbands don't hear about that, otherwise when you get ready to go a road trip, it will be "Diaper Up."
LOL Buzz.

[nanandjim]

...Imagine driving along peeing in your nappy, ew, god what about a no.2, double ew :hand:
I'm wondering if the urine goes into a separate compartment. I mean, I just cannot see someone willingly peeing in his/her pants and then sitting in it for hours. :eek:

[michelle]

I couldn't believe that!

She meant business lol

Imagine driving along peeing in your nappy, ew, god what about a no.2, double ew :hand:LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! EWWWW, Nasty!

[close_enough]

What about the hammer, knife, gloves and trash bags. What was she going to do with them?
How do you get from sailing, rubber stamping, gourmet cooking and a love of african violets to driving 900 miles in a diaper to supposedly scare a lady who is exchanging e-mails with the man you want but isn't your husband? How do you get there?

Nowak was going to kidnap, possibly torture, & kill Shipman....those items aren't used to simply scare someone....jmo

[nanandjim]

They still have to stop for gas. :p

I can't imagine her vehicle went 900 miles without a fillup or two.
That's what gets me. You know that she had to stop for gas. That tells me that she didn't want to take a chance of being seen. What a nut!!

[2luvmy]

That's what gets me. You know that she had to stop for gas. That tells me that she didn't want to take a chance of being seen. What a nut!!


But I read that she had cash and so she had to go in and pay cash for the gas!!! Weird!!

[JDB]

Let's hope all of your husbands don't hear about that, otherwise when you get ready to go a road trip, it will be "Diaper Up."
Hey Buzz who needs a coffe can anymore for Long Trips. I can see it already instead of Rest Are ahead it will read Diaper area ahead. :crazy:

[narlacat]

I'm wondering if the urine goes into a separate compartment. I mean, I just cannot see someone willingly peeing in his/her pants and then sitting in it for hours. :eek:
Well, I'm not up on those kind of nappys, but normal nappys it all goes in together...

But we're making good time lol

[close_enough]

But I read that she had cash and so she had to go in and pay cash for the gas!!! Weird!!

maybe she had gas cans in the vehicle???...weird she would stop for gas, but not to pee :confused:

[narlacat]

But I read that she had cash and so she had to go in and pay cash for the gas!!! Weird!!
Bet they smelt her coming lol

[concernedperson]

Honestly, I don't think she was all "there". But, I do think given the opportunity she would have "offed" her competition.

This is so embarrassing for the whole country. What exactly are the safeguards/criteria for people in the NASA programs? Not saying that NASA is at fault. Look at CDC being hacked recently. But, do we take lower standards for government officials/government qualified than the rest of the population of employed workers?

We really need to look at where our tax dollars are being spent and how best to regulate the use.

I certainly hope the items in her grip weren't paid for by tax dollars. This is just something that has been going through my mind today not based in any knowledge or reality just a worry.

[Warof2010]

I'm wondering if the urine goes into a separate compartment. I mean, I just cannot see someone willingly peeing in his/her pants and then sitting in it for hours. :eek:She could have ended up with a bad case of diaper rash??

900 miles, could be 15 hours of driving.

[close_enough]

Honestly, I don't think she was all "there". But, I do think given the opportunity she would have "offed" her competition.

This is so embarrassing for the whole country. What exactly are the safeguards/criteria for people in the NASA programs? Not saying that NASA is at fault. Look at CDC being hacked recently. But, do we take lower standards for government officials/government qualified than the rest of the population of employed workers?

We really need to look at where our tax dollars are being spent and how best to regulate the use.

I certainly hope the items in her grip weren't paid for by tax dollars. This is just something that has been going through my mind today not based in any knowledge or reality just a worry.

well, the diapers probably were....i heard on some show, that she used the 'diapers' that the astronauts use, & that she had easy access to them....

agree also, that she's not "all there"...

[close_enough]

She could have ended up with a bad case of diaper rash??

900 miles, could be 15 hours of driving.

:rolleyes: LOL, "diaper rash"

[Warof2010]

maybe she had gas cans in the vehicle???...weird she would stop for gas, but not to pee :confused:she didn't want to leave her DNA in the restrooms along the way. I think maybe a screw fell out sometime before she developed this plan.

[Warof2010]

that's yet another charge--theft of government property (diapers)

yet another--use of government property in the commission of a crime (diapers).

of course--we get short changed by the government every day--they are robbing us blind.

[Amraann]

Are there still reapercusions in the military for having an affair? I remember some woman in the military (in the news) being busted for having an affair. I don't know if he would be in trouble since he isn't married. Reason I'm asking is it was mentioned by someone on the news.

I believe they stopped enforcing those rules.
But he would be in just as much trouble as she if memory serves me.

IMO there is no way they did not have some sort of affair.

[JBean]

that's yet another charge--theft of government property (diapers)

yet another--use of government property in the commission of a crime (diapers).

of course--we get short changed by the government every day--they are robbing us blind.Buzz !! If she actually "went' in the diapers would there be some sort of "illegal discharge" crime?

[JDB]

And then we wonder why they are Calle AstroNUts???
Buzz I hear they were regular Diapers not Nasa issued. :D
Depends good for a 1000 miles :D

[Lacy Wood]

DNA in restrooms? I'd say she just did not want to enter the station/conv store to avoid getting on video cameras along the way Houston to Orlando.

They need to check the credit cards she used...since she planned it so well, but they could point to her taking the trip...stolen or fraudulent cards?...or maybe she carried extra gas cans in the back.

The news now says she got a room near Orlando under a fake name and paid in cash, and her family says she's been seperated from her husband a few weeks.

[JDB]

and her family says she's been seperated from her husband a few weeks.
Gee wonder why??? :D

[concernedperson]

well, the diapers probably were....i heard on some show, that she used the 'diapers' that the astronauts use, & that she had easy access to them....

agree also, that she's not "all there"...

I will buy her diapers if she doesn't kill anyone. How's that for a deal? Can't help it, still embarassed by this. But, really glad Shipman is alive to even be called a victim.

[nanandjim]

This case is being covered by Nancy Grace tonight. They are giving a bunch of info and put up a photo of Colleen. Colleen filed for a restraining order several weeks ago. She said that she was being stalked by this acquaintenance of her boyfriend. The Nowak family gave a statement and said that Lisa and her husband, who have been married 19 years, separated a few weeks ago.

I bet that Lisa and the boyfriend consummated their relationship on the 10-day training exercise that they went on together in January. It would all fit together. She then separates from her husband. She starts to stalk the guy's girlfriend. The guy probably considered it a fling. She is desperate and took it more seriously.

Colleen is 30 years old. Lisa is 43 years old with three kids. I think that Lisa is going through a crisis. Unfortunately, she stepped across the line. Apparently, Colleen and the boyfriend were well aware that Lisa was stalking her.

Lisa used her position to gain personal information on Colleen, to include information about her whereabouts and flight plans. I really, really think that Lisa may have killed Colleen. I do not believe that she had all of that paraphenelia for nothing. She had a plan.

I am wondering if she left her kids alone in the home, raced to Orlando with intention to kill and get rid of the body and return home before morning.

If the police suspected her, they could check her work computer to see that she checked to see where Lisa was. I don't know, but I think that she would have been caught. So, it is a blessing for all involved that her plan was thwarted.

[Love_Mama]

This story is so nut's I don't know what to think, like totally weird.............think I'll check out Nancy Grace tonite........

xxxxxxxxxooo
mama
:blowkiss: :blowkiss:

[concernedperson]

This case is being covered by Nancy Grace tonight. They are giving a bunch of info and put up a photo of Colleen. Colleen filed for a restraining order several weeks ago. She said that she was being stalked by this acquaintenance of her boyfriend. The Nowak family gave a statement and said that Lisa and her husband, who have been married 19 years, separated a few weeks ago.

I bet that Lisa and the boyfriend consummated their relationship on the 10-day training exercise that they went on together in January. It would all fit together. She then separates from her husband. She starts to stalk the guy's girlfriend. The guy probably considered it a fling. She is desperate and took it more seriously.

Colleen is 30 years old. Lisa is 43 years old with three kids. I think that Lisa is going through a crisis. Unfortunately, she stepped across the line. Apparently, Colleen and the boyfriend were well aware that Lisa was stalking her.

Lisa used her position to gain personal information on Colleen, to include information about her whereabouts and flight plans. I really, really think that Lisa may have killed Colleen. I do not believe that she had all of that paraphenelia for nothing. She had a plan.

I am wondering if she left her kids alone in the home, raced to Orlando with intention to kill and get rid of the body and return home before morning.

If the police suspected her, they could check her work computer to see that she checked to see where Lisa was. I don't know, but I think that she would have been caught. So, it is a blessing for all involved that her plan was thwarted.

This is a good post before it goes to late night shows. The stalking is enough to throw you over the edge..not right. Shipman is lucky to be alive and if I were her, I would be sure that I was well hidden while Novak is out.

[Dr. Doogie]

N.A.S.A. - Needs Another Stupid Astronaut. :loser:

[Mama-cita]

that's yet another charge--theft of government property (diapers)

yet another--use of government property in the commission of a crime (diapers).

of course--we get short changed by the government every day--they are robbing us blind.
Buzz reading your posts and some of the posts here makes me WISH I had put on a diaper before reading this thread...
You all are a crack up!

[JDB]

You know what I think is strange is that this Guy has not said one word yet!I watched Nancy and saw a Pic of the other woman.An a copy of the restraing order.It looks like this stalking has been going on for a few months.I have a feeling this guy and yes I am a male has been stringing both of these ladies along and got caught.

[Mama-cita]

You know what I think is strange is that this Guy has not said one word yet!I watched Nancy and saw a Pic of the other woman.An a copy of the restraing order.It looks like this stalking has been going on for a few months.I have a feeling this guy and yes I am a male has been stringing both of these ladies along and got caught.What did the "other woman" look like? Just curious....

[Annie]

You know what I think is strange is that this Guy has not said one word yet!I watched Nancy and saw a Pic of the other woman.An a copy of the restraing order.It looks like this stalking has been going on for a few months.I have a feeling this guy and yes I am a male has been stringing both of these ladies along and got caught.
He is probably so embarrassed he wants to just crawl in a hole and hide. Also, they said on Larry King that a person in the military who commits adultery can be charged and sentenced. Not like in civilian life. His job may be in jeopardy.

[JDB]

He is probably so embarrassed he wants to just crawl in a hole and hide. Also, they said on Larry King that a person in the military who commits adultery can be charged and sentenced. Not like in civilian life. His job may be in jeopardy.
But he is not Married!! And she has been seprated for a few weeks now.

[Peter Hamilton]

The guy probably already has a lawyer and his lawyer probably put a muzzle on him for the time being

[Peter Hamilton]

[QUOTE=Lacy Wood]DNA in restrooms? I'd say she just did not want to enter the station/conv store to avoid getting on video cameras along the way Houston to Orlando.

They need to check the credit cards she used...since she planned it so well, but they could point to her taking the trip...stolen or fraudulent cards?...or maybe she carried extra gas cans in the back{QUOTE}--true--whole point was not to be seen--hence her disguises also

[Peter Hamilton]

lol--"Lust in Space"--"Fom Shuttles to Shackles"--"The Wrong Stuff"

[Warof2010]

N.A.S.A. - Needs Another Stupid Astronaut. :loser:Another AstroNUT??

[Warof2010]

Hello Houston. We have a problem.

[s_finch]

Wow, such a descent into some kind of maddness. In her NASA photo she looks so healthy and normal. What would make a person think she could kidnap and kill a woman who possible didn't even know her and then not get caught and win her man and live happily ever after? What did she plan to do with her husband and twins?
Good question above. I would suspect that since she's a very driven person who has always pushed herself to succeed ( based on a friends assessment of her), doesn't accept failure and has achieved much in her life because of her strength and sheer determination, she thought she could literally get away with murder. No doubt she was/is totally obsessed with the guy (forget his name at the moment) and she just can't stand to not "win" in her for his love.

[Warof2010]

[QUOTE=Lacy Wood]DNA in restrooms? I'd say she just did not want to enter the station/conv store to avoid getting on video cameras along the way Houston to Orlando.

They need to check the credit cards she used...since she planned it so well, but they could point to her taking the trip...stolen or fraudulent cards?...or maybe she carried extra gas cans in the back{QUOTE}--true--whole point was not to be seen--hence her disguises alsoShe had $600+ in cash. Probably didn't use a CCard the whole way.

Remember, she planned on getting away with this.....................and all she ended up with was a badly soiled diaper. Especially after she got caught in the act, and carped (as JBeanya would say) her pants.

[JBean]

Hello Houston. We have a problem.Buzz you are on a roll tonight.

[Warof2010]

Good question above. I would suspect that since she's a very driven person who has always pushed herself to succeed ( based on a friends assessment of her), doesn't accept failure and has achieved much in her life because of her strength and sheer determination, she thought she could literally get away with murder. No doubt she was/is totally obsessed with the guy (forget his name at the moment) and she just can't stand to not "win" in her for his love.We can just call her Robochick, and he is Billy-O.

[s_finch]

She could have ended up with a bad case of diaper rash??

900 miles, could be 15 hours of driving.15 hours of driving and they call this "a mistake"?? In 15 hours she couldn't bring herself to turn around and go home, in 15 hours she didn't "come to her senses"?????

I believe they stopped enforcing those rules.
But he would be in just as much trouble as she if memory serves me.

IMO there is no way they did not have some sort of affair.
Could have been an emtional affair only. Then again, every day people stalk complete strangers just because that stranger triggers something inside them.

[nanandjim]

:laugh: We can just call her Robochick, and he is Billy-O.
I like these two names...very fitting. ;)

[nanandjim]

lol--"Lust in Space"--"Fom Shuttles to Shackles"--"The Wrong Stuff"
You guys are too much!! I'm glad that we can laugh about it...as her mission was not successful. :)

[nanandjim]

What did the "other woman" look like? Just curious....
She is 30 years old and looked pretty petite from the photo that I saw. It was a photo of her in her uniform. She was not bad looking. I would say she was on about the same level as her obsessive rival, Robochick.

Billy-O was probably playing both women and loving it. He will probably now have to fess up to his girlfriend. I would dump his butt if I were she.

[Lacy Wood]

I saw about all the coverage tonight and even the former US Attorney on Greta did not mention federal charges. But this woman hatched a plot in Houston, bought what she needed there, then drives through LA, MS, AL, to Florida, carrying weapons and materials for a criminal act, across state lines a-plenty, on a mission to commit a crime that evidence shows was probably murder or kidnapping...There are federal crimes there for sure, and probably far more easily provable for feds than for the state of Florida. What happened in Florida can still be a part of a federal case.

Good defense to state charges says she changed her mind when she got to Orlando with the lawyer saying "all she did was knock on the window and spray mace at the accuser, never touching her". But the Federal charges may start as soon as she crosses the TX-LA state line, with evidence of a plan to kill or kidnap at that point.

[KatK]

:rolleyes: LOL, "diaper rash"I would think she'd put on a layer of zinc oxide ointment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desitin) (Desitin) on the areas the diaper would cover as preventative measure. :eek:

[KatK]

But he is not Married!! And she has been seprated for a few weeks now.Both (http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/orl-nowakcharges0200607,0,607333.story?coll=ny-leadnationalnews-headlines) parties who are in an affair commit adultery if one of them is married, and both parties face potential charges under the Uniform Code of Military Justice.

ETA: this article also has a picture of Shipman. The last few sentences touch on the potential charges Oefelein faces.

[adnoid]

...she stepped across the line...

Now now - let's not rush to judgment. :D

[IdahoMom]

I keep thinking about her poor kids. They must be completely bewildered. :(

[mjak]

There is nothing funny, amusing or entertaining about what has happened to Lisa Nowak.
Yes, what she has done is very serious and certanitly of a crimianal nature. However, she did not shoot , stab or kill another person. Charging someone based on what their intentions might have been when that person is clearly mentally ill is not right in my opinion. A prison employee who had contact with Ms. Nowak discribed her as completly disoriented. It seems obvious to me that this women has had somekind of mental break. Instead of society paying thousands of dollars to prosectute and persucte this poor women we should be putting our efforts into getting her into a hospital and appropriate medical care. This thread where people continue to make jokes at this womens expense really turns me off. This women is ILL. She deserves our sympathy, pity and understanding not scorn and ridicule. She does have to answer for the criminality of her actions, but to quote a well known judge we should always temper Justice with Mercy. Please lets not find amusment in another persons pain.

mjak

[adnoid]

The Smoking Gun (http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/0206073astronut1.html) has documents on the arrest. The maps were printed on 1/23, and she printed out layouts of the airport terminal and parking garage - even the shuttle bus schedule. Paid cash the whole way, paid cash & used a false name to register at a hotel.

A bit of planning, it would seem.

Two USED diapers were in a trash bag in her car. Now, if you've got time to pull off and change your diaper (I assume this was not done while the car is in motion) couldn't you take the same amount of time to run to the bathroom while you're getting gas?

[JanetElaine]

I've not brought this up before, since I couldn't quite remember what I thought I remembered (y'all still with me?), and I still can't. But maybe this rings a bell with someone else?

I had always been interested in space stuff and many years ago (early 90's maybe?) I watched a documentary on TV and in it, an astronaut who had been to the moon was talking about what an effect it had on him, mentally. He had been to the moon in the early days of space travel, IIRC.
He said something like after returning to earth, he had terrible mental problems because being in outer space looking back at earth kind of warped his mind, it was all so magnificent, hard to grasp. I think he said his colleagues in space also turned out having mental problems after returning to earth.

Now I don't remember if these were permanent mental problems, and I am sure that with the progress in the space programs NASA paid attention to this part as well, but I can't help but wonder if something like this might have happened to Nowak, to make her snap like she did? If only I could remember exactly what he said, and who he was, maybe it's on the 'net these days now.

[Lacy Wood]

I haven't heard yet that the apparent victim here (Capt Shipman) has stated that Nowak was confused or disoriented, as opposed to determined and aggressively attempting to get her.

Assuming mental illness is a leap in itself. Especially when the symptoms suddenly appear only after after you've been caught, and you realize your previous life as you knew it is over. That said, there is a variety of Bipolar Disorder discussed extensively in "Mania: An Emerging Concept" in which those affected identify a heroic viewed target of affection, one often not accessable, that is pursued to the detriment of all else in life. I have long believed that concept was a factor in many stalking cases. But also true is that bipolar symptoms exist in a continuum with typical or normal behaviors making diagnosis difficult. That is why bipolar is usually rejected as a mental illness that excuses criminal acts in courts.

[Lacy Wood]

The Smoking Gun documents kindly linked by Adnoid above give one tidbit I had not heard. That is Lisa Nowak got the flight plans of Ms Shipman (and apparently the emails etc) from the computer of "the man they had a common interest in". The Smoking Gun (http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/0206073astronut1.html)

[mjak]

I haven't heard yet that the apparent victim here (Capt Shipman) has stated that Nowak was confused or disoriented, as opposed to determined and aggressively attempting to get her.

Assuming mental illness is a leap in itself. Especially when the symptoms suddenly appear only after after you've been caught, and you realize your previous life as you knew it is over. That said, there is a variety of Bipolar Disorder discussed extensively in "Mania: An Emerging Concept" in which those affected identify a heroic viewed target of affection, one often not accessable, that is pursued to the detriment of all else in life. I have long believed that concept was a factor in many stalking cases. But also true is that bipolar symptoms exist in a continuum with typical or normal behaviors making diagnosis difficult. That is why bipolar is usually rejected as a mental illness that excuses criminal acts in courts.

There are tons of mental Illnesses that could explain her behavior. Their causes vary from severe trauma to organic brain disease and probably tons of causes which I do not know. This is a women who functioned at a very high level and was well acomplished who now is behaving totally bizzare and irrationaly. I do not think suspecting she is mentally Ill is a leap I think its a liklyhood.

mjak

[curious1]

Honestly, I don't think she was all "there". But, I do think given the opportunity she would have "offed" her competition.

This is so embarrassing for the whole country. What exactly are the safeguards/criteria for people in the NASA programs? Not saying that NASA is at fault. Look at CDC being hacked recently. But, do we take lower standards for government officials/government qualified than the rest of the population of employed workers?

We really need to look at where our tax dollars are being spent and how best to regulate the use.

I certainly hope the items in her grip weren't paid for by tax dollars. This is just something that has been going through my mind today not based in any knowledge or reality just a worry.
Having a relative that works for NASA I can tell you no. These people go through a lot of hoops. These are not your typical gov't workers, we are not talking the DMV or Post Office(my apologies is any of you work there).

[adnoid]

...Especially when the symptoms suddenly appear only after after you've been caught...

Interestingly, if you read the police report, she was asked about the pepper spray and she said "that was stupid". She knew it was wrong afterward, and her planning tells me she knew it was wrong before.

I mean, if we decided to never punish people because they later realized their actions were wrong we'd never need prisons - but we'd have a lot more crime, that's for sure.

[jillybean]

Her career with Nasa is OVER. You can take that too the bank. They do not like being embarrassed Whether she will be found gulity of all or some of the charges. She is done with Nasa.

I can't believe some ppl are trying to excuse her behavior and say she must have mental problems, YADA YADA YADA. Where is taking responsibility for your own actions? Isn't that what we try to teach our children? And if it was regular Joe Smoe who had done it, they would definitely STILL be in jail with no bond. She is getting special treatment because of her status. Maybe she didn't harm Colleen Shipman Colleen Shipnam but that was only because she didn't get the chance too. Whether she intended to Murder her or not ( still up for debate) ut she certainly wanted to harm her in some way.

Just my :twocents:

[curious1]

Interesting (well to me at least) snippet from the article about Norwak......

"There are a lot of things we do every day that involve some risk that we may not think about -- just getting in a car and driving to work, or people that fly airplanes for their jobs -- those things are all risky. We can sit in one place and never go anywhere or do anything, but that's not what people are about. We have a drive to go and do things, even if it's on a daily basis or with a larger goal of exploring."

Is it just me or does this take on a whole new meaning in the light of recent events?

[adnoid]

...This is a women who functioned at a very high level and was well acomplished who now is behaving totally bizzare and irrationaly....

The behavior is totally rational and goal directed. The planning was not perfect, but that's a problem a lot of criminals had. But it seems from what we are able to read that she knew what she wanted to do, and worked toward getting it done. The fact that the goal was illegal doesn't mean the person pursuing the goal is irrational. Pursuit of a criminal goal may be out of character, it certainly is in this case.

If she felt she could talk to the other woman and convince her to break off the relationship with the man, that would not be bizarre ideation (as it could happen, no matter how far-fetched).

[curious1]

Her career with Nasa is OVER. You can take that too the bank. They do not like being embarrassed Whether she will be found gulity of all or some of the charges. She is done with Nasa.

I can't believe some ppl are trying to excuse her behavior and say she must have mental problems, YADA YADA YADA. Where is taking responsibility for your own actions? Isn't that what we try to teach our children? And if it was regular Joe Smoe who had done it, they would definitely STILL be in jail with no bond. She is getting special treatment because of her status. Maybe she didn't harm Colleen Shipman Colleen Shipnam but that was only because she didn't get the chance too. Whether she intended to Murder her or not ( still up for debate) ut she certainly wanted to harm her in some way.

Just my :twocents:
I'm with you. I do think that she certainly has some mental health issues, but she knew what she was doing was wrong. She thought this through folks. IMO the reason she went to FL to carry out her plan was because she knew if this happened in another state that LE would not automatically tie it to her, it would have better chance of looking like a random crime. She had all that stuff in her car. She planned this out and you cannot ignore that. Now, if she was coherent enough to think all that through then she knew what she was doing was wrong. So IMO mental illness does not excuse what she did.

[JanetElaine]

I can't believe some ppl are trying to excuse her behavior and say she must have mental problems, YADA YADA YADA. Where is taking responsibility for your own actions? Threads would be incredibly boring if all resorted to just saying 'dude, ya hear about that astronut woman? Sheesh man, she's a moron ain't she'.

Even if that's what it might boil down to, discussion forums would not exist if people weren't allowed to speculate about what caused her being a moron. I haven't read any posts on this thread where a poster was excusing her behaviour, only speculating on what may have triggered it. Talking about possible causes/triggers does not equate excusing her behaviour.

[mjak]

Interestingly, if you read the police report, she was asked about the pepper spray and she said "that was stupid". She knew it was wrong afterward, and her planning tells me she knew it was wrong before.

I mean, if we decided to never punish people because they later realized their actions were wrong we'd never need prisons - but we'd have a lot more crime, that's for sure.

I do not believe that punishment should be the ultimate goal of our criminal system. Certanitly, there are some criminals who are dangers to society and themselves and should never see the light of day. This is a women who drove for 11 hours wearing diapers with an idiotic agenda and a car filled with senseless items. She had opportunity but she did NOT stab or shoot her attended victim. She sprayed pepper spray with what she says was her intention to subdue this women. There is no point in trying to make sense of her actions because they are senseless. Focusing on punishment for this women in my opinion is not in her best intrest or societies. She is sick and needs medical treatment, not a spanking.

mjak

[curious1]

mjak....I can see what you mean, but I have to believe there are just some stupid people out there who do stupid things for no other reason than they are stupid and think they can get away with it. I don't think all of these people have mental issues. And when you have a stupid person harm or try to harm someone else and think they are so entitled that they can get away with it then yes you do have to punish them as criminals. I am still undecided on this woman. Again, I don't think that every criminal who does something like this does it because they are mentally ill, some of them do it because they are stupid and have a sense of entitlement plain and simple.

[j2mirish]

I do not believe that punishment should be the ultimate goal of our criminal system. Certanitly, there are some criminals who are dangers to society and themselves and should never see the light of day. This is a women who drove for 11 hours wearing diapers with an idiotic agenda and a car filled with senseless items. She had opportunity but she did NOT stab or shoot her attended victim. She sprayed pepper spray with what she says was her intention to subdue this women. There is no point in trying to make sense of her actions because they are senseless. Focusing on punishment for this women in my opinion is not in her best intrest or societies. She is sick and needs medical treatment, not a spanking.

mjakbold by j2m
I dont think she had the opportunity, because the victim was smart enough not to let her in the car- had the woman given her a ride as requested, I dont believe mrs. nowak, would be out on bond right now-

[jillybean]

bold by j2m
I dont think she had the opportunity, because the victim was smart enough not to let her in the car- had the woman given her a ride as requested, I dont believe mrs. nowak, would be out on bond right now-
i agree

[close_enough]

bold by j2m
I dont think she had the opportunity, because the victim was smart enough not to let her in the car- had the woman given her a ride as requested, I dont believe mrs. nowak would be out on bond right now-

i agree....very good point...Nowak wasn't given the opportunity because the victim was smart in not letting her into the car...

[julianne]

I do not believe that punishment should be the ultimate goal of our criminal system. Certanitly, there are some criminals who are dangers to society and themselves and should never see the light of day. This is a women who drove for 11 hours wearing diapers with an idiotic agenda and a car filled with senseless items. She had opportunity but she did NOT stab or shoot her attended victim. She sprayed pepper spray with what she says was her intention to subdue this women. There is no point in trying to make sense of her actions because they are senseless. Focusing on punishment for this women in my opinion is not in her best intrest or societies. She is sick and needs medical treatment, not a spanking.

mjakShe's not sick, IMO. She's a depraved woman who was so jealous and envious of this girl that she was simply going to get rid of her. Her agenda, while you call it idiotic, it was most certainly also criminal in nature. There are idiotic criminals everywhere---she has now been added to the list. Put yourself in the intended victims place for a moment. Imagine some jealousy ravaged woman who already had known stalking issues with you, driving 900 miles, IN A DIAPER SO SHE COULDN'T BE PLACED AT ANY SCENE EN ROUTE, with implements that are known as weapoins......what kind of medical treatment would you want her to get? What if YOU were her intended victim, or your daughter? Frankly, she has lost the ability to have what's in her "best interest" doled out to her----she needs to be locked up! This woman isn't mentally ill--she's depraved.

[mjak]

mjak....I can see what you mean, but I have to believe there are just some stupid people out there who do stupid things for no other reason than they are stupid and think they can get away with it. I don't think all of these people have mental issues. And when you have a stupid person harm or try to harm someone else and think they are so entitled that they can get away with it then yes you do have to punish them as criminals. I am still undecided on this woman. Again, I don't think that every criminal who does something like this does it because they are mentally ill, some of them do it because they are stupid and have a sense of entitlement plain and simple.

I agree with you Camper. However, this women has no antisocial history as far as we know. A person with such personality defects to belive entitelment like that would have serious issues functioning in society. This women functioned at a very high level in our society. Clearly she is not intellecutally stupid and if she was this emotionally disfunctional I would expect there would have been evidence of this way before now and she would not have been able to achieve some of what she has achieved in life. I believe she has had a mental breakdown of some sort.

mjak

[julianne]

Having a relative that works for NASA I can tell you no. These people go through a lot of hoops. These are not your typical gov't workers, we are not talking the DMV or Post Office(my apologies is any of you work there).
You're right---NASA employees go through a intense, rigorous selection and interviewing process including background checks, psychological examinations and behavioral evaluations, etc. It's a daunting process. They pick the best of the best.

IMO, this woman is a criminal, plain and simple. She got caught & didn't think she would. You know the saying, Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.

[Smurf]

You know what I think is strange is that this Guy has not said one word yet!I watched Nancy and saw a Pic of the other woman.An a copy of the restraing order.It looks like this stalking has been going on for a few months.I have a feeling this guy and yes I am a male has been stringing both of these ladies along and got caught.
I think he is going to say "I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Ms. Novak." lol

I agree that maybe they got cold in their Canada training thing and snuggled up together and then his **** just sort of found it's way and well you know the rest.

[close_enough]

You're right---NASA employees go through a intense, rigorous selection and interviewing process including background checks, psychological examinations and behavioral evaluations, etc. It's a daunting process. They pick the best of the best.

IMO, this woman is a criminal, plain and simple. She got caught & didn't think she would. You know the saying, Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.

ooooooh yeah!

Nowak's career is over...'kaput', as it should be, imo.....

[mjak]

She's not sick, IMO. She's a depraved woman who was so jealous and envious of this girl that she was simply going to get rid of her. Her agenda, while you call it idiotic, it was most certainly also criminal in nature. There are idiotic criminals everywhere---she has now been added to the list. Put yourself in the intended victims place for a moment. Imagine some jealousy ravaged woman who already had known stalking issues with you, driving 900 miles, IN A DIAPER SO SHE COULDN'T BE PLACED AT ANY SCENE EN ROUTE, with implements that are known as weapoins......what kind of medical treatment would you want her to get? What if YOU were her intended victim, or your daughter? Frankly, she has lost the ability to have what's in her "best interest" doled out to her----she needs to be locked up! This woman isn't mentally ill--she's depraved.

IF I was her attended victim I would want her in a psych hospital being evaluated. This women clearly lost the ability to determine what is in her best intrest when she decided to act on her distored reality. Yes, I believe she is mentally Ill . Your lack of compassion scares me.

mjak

[Lacy Wood]

There are tons of mental Illnesses that could explain her behavior. Their causes vary from severe trauma to organic brain disease and probably tons of causes which I do not know. This is a women who functioned at a very high level and was well acomplished who now is behaving totally bizzare and irrationaly. I do not think suspecting she is mentally Ill is a leap I think its a liklyhood. mjak Certainly mental illness is a possibility and should be ruled in or out with hopefully competent assessments. But what is a "leap" is to immediately think that a person with a lifetime of seemingly normal behavior is mentally ill if he/she commits a heinous act. That is both counter-intuitive, and the opposite of what such behavior prefacing a horrendous act should suggest. And when your life falls apart after a despicable deed you're caught in, distraught behavior is pretty normal.

It is far more common that an individual has suppressed/repressed rages or hateful acts by voluntary control, social/peer pressures, and/or will power, than to have concealed symptoms of mental illness over which one is presumed to have little or no voluntary control. (OJ anyone?) What we now know that's in the press, if correct, strongly suggests a person in control of her behavior. While I'm sure family and friends would like to think otherwise, a history of normal behavior is suggestive of voluntary and controlled conduct, just as a history of erratic behavior may be suggestive of the opposite.

[jillybean]

Nowak used government contacts and government clearance via her work computer to tap into her ( Colleen's) personal information.

I wonder if she could also be charged by the Goverment for this.

[nanandjim]

...Your lack of compassion scares me.
You apparently have never been stalked and harrassed. I tend to agree with julianne. I have been harrassed, stalked, attacked and had property vandalized by a nut who wanted her ex-boyfriend to return to her. It is not fun and it is quite unsettling as you don't know what the person will do next. She was small, innocent looking and held a very good job. Had she not broken into my apartment and physically assaulted me, she still would not have been prosecuted. Even at that, the police tried very hard not to get me to press charges. It was absolutely disgusting.

All I have read about so far is how NASA personnel has circled wagons around Lisa Nowak. They are very concerned about her. I have not heard them express one bit of concern for the victim.

If I were Colleen Shipman, I'd prosecute this woman (if I could) and I'd dump the boyfriend after I used him to testify for me. Surely, he was witness or privy to certain incidences involving poor, little, confused Lisa. :rolleyes:

[jillybean]

IF I was her attended victim I would want her in a psych hospital being evaluated. This women clearly lost the ability to determine what is in her best intrest when she decided to act on her distored reality. Yes, I believe she is mentally Ill . Your lack of compassion scares me.

mjak
We all have compassion, just because some of us disagree, you can't claim we don't. And you weren't her intended victim, so how could you possibly know how she felt and feels today.

[englishleigh]

Just saw on the news that they flew her back to Houston this morning early. Question: do we know what vehicle she drove to FL? Was it a rental or was it the family minivan/or whatever?? Because apparently it's still in Orlando as evidence, I guess.

Saw the pic of Colleen Shipman. I actually sort of thought that the pics I've seen of Lisa in better days and the film footage of her on the shuttle last summer made Lisa look like she is quite a bit more attractive than CS, but I guess that's neither here nor there.

Agreed that Lisa should lose her career and the charges of aggravated attempted kidnapping should stick and likely the attempted murder one, too. I can't believe that Billy-O was worth all this to her. He was obviously playing both of them!! Who would want a guy who would do that? :loser:

[nanandjim]

...
IMO, this woman is a criminal, plain and simple. She got caught & didn't think she would...
These military people live in their own little world and usually only associate with other military individuals. They think that "civilians" are beneath them. I know because I lived around this mindset for years.

They really are rather disgusting because they think that they are better than everyone else and think that they are above the law. They think that because of their backgrounds and positions that they will be given the benefit of the doubt. I guess that they are right because that's what is happening for Lisa. Can you believe that her bail was set at $25K? That is absolutely disgusting and scary, IMO.

I bet the victim is not going to sleep well at all knowing that Lisa is out and about and being coddled by her NASA family.

[Smurf]

bold by j2m
I dont think she had the opportunity, because the victim was smart enough not to let her in the car- had the woman given her a ride as requested, I dont believe mrs. nowak, would be out on bond right now-
That what I was gonna say. Thanks to power door looks; Miss Shipman is alive to write a book or make a movie about her frightning run-in with a crazy woman.

[jillybean]

You apparently have never been stalked and harrassed. I tend to agree with julianne. I have been harrassed, stalked, attacked and had property vandalized by a nut who wanted her ex-boyfriend to return to her. It is not fun and it is quite unsettling as you don't know what the person will do next. She was small, innocent looking and held a very good job. Had she not broken into my apartment and physically assaulted me, she still would not have been prosecuted. Even at that, the police tried very hard not to get me to press charges. It was absolutely disgusting.

All I have read about so far is how NASA personnel has circled wagons around Lisa Nowak. They are very concerned about her. I have not heard them express one bit of concern for the victim.

If I were Colleen Shipman, I'd prosecute this woman (if I could) and I'd dump the boyfriend after I used him to testify for me. Surely, he was witness or privy to certain incidences involved poor, little, confused Lisa. :rolleyes:
RIGHT! and where is the compassion for the intended victim? :rolleyes:

[mjak]

We all have compassion, just because some of us disagree, you can't claim we don't. And you weren't her intended victim, so how could you possibly know how she felt and feels today.

Julieanne asked me how I would feel if I was her intended victim and I answered as such. I was not stating that I could possibly know how this victim would feel. I agree disagreeing does not indicate lack of compassion but I found the post I was responding to very cold and unfeeling.

mjak

[mjak]

RIGHT! and where is the compassion for the intended victim? :rolleyes:


I have lots of compassion for the victim. In fact I am impressed with her actions. She got herself a restraining order and has not made a statement with the press. These actions speak loudly to me. She is taking care of herself and
alowing the legal system to do what it needs to do.

mjak

[kahskye]

She's not sick, IMO. She's a depraved woman who was so jealous and envious of this girl that she was simply going to get rid of her. Her agenda, while you call it idiotic, it was most certainly also criminal in nature. There are idiotic criminals everywhere---she has now been added to the list. Put yourself in the intended victims place for a moment. Imagine some jealousy ravaged woman who already had known stalking issues with you, driving 900 miles, IN A DIAPER SO SHE COULDN'T BE PLACED AT ANY SCENE EN ROUTE, with implements that are known as weapoins......what kind of medical treatment would you want her to get? What if YOU were her intended victim, or your daughter? Frankly, she has lost the ability to have what's in her "best interest" doled out to her----she needs to be locked up! This woman isn't mentally ill--she's depraved.
I agree that she has lost the ability to have what's in her "best interest". What hatred she must have had boiling up in her to drive 900 miles. Was her "plan" the only thing on her mind? Did she once think of her precious son and twins she left behind? Didn't reality click in for just one minute for her to realize what she could possibly be throwing away if her "plan" failed?

I asked this before but didn't get an answer. Does anyone know who was watching her children? What was her alibi going to be if she did indeed harm Colleen, especially since she would be unaccounted for by those that knew her? It seems like someone would have put two and two together if Colleen had been harmed, especially the boyfriend (can't remember his name). Did Lisa honestly think no one would point fingers back to her?

[ljwf22]

I asked this before but didn't get an answer. Does anyone know who was watching her children? What was her alibi going to be if she did indeed harm Colleen, especially since she would be unaccounted for by those that knew her? It seems like someone would have put two and two together if Colleen had been harmed, especially the boyfriend (can't remember his name). Did Lisa honestly think no one would point fingers back to her?
From what I heard on TV last night, it is assumed the kids are with their father.

[curious1]

RIGHT! and where is the compassion for the intended victim? :rolleyes:
Yes, thank you very much. I am so tired of a judicial system and public that is more interested in the poor wittle accused and/or guilty person and wants to spend all this time and money to understand them and how they were wronged and bascially says to the vicitim, 'So you were a victim, yeah well too bad.'

[T-Rex]

I read somewhere she split with her husband a few weeks ago.

I also read that she should be denied bail because she's an "obvious flight risk"! ;-)

[curious1]

Yeah, she's an obvious flight risk, one Depends and she's across the border into Mexico.

[nanandjim]

Her career with Nasa is OVER. You can take that too the bank. They do not like being embarrassed Whether she will be found gulity of all or some of the charges. She is done with Nasa.
Not necessarily. They can send her to a military doctor who will say that she had some type of chemical imbalance or whatever to excuse her behavior. You can take that to the bank.

I just hope that our justice system successfully prosecutes this woman. Colleen, IMO, will be pressured to go along with whatever they decide because she doesn't want to hurt her career.

I just hope that Colleen is strong enough to see this thing through and make sure that Lisa Nowak is treated just like any other criminal. I'm afraid that this won't be the case, though.

[Smurf]

Well, did Jay Leno include this in his monologue last nite? I didn't watch.

[Hez]

Yeah, she's an obvious flight risk, one Depends and she's across the border into Mexico.
At least she'd be prepared for Montezuma's revenge. :laugh: What a fruit loop. :crazy:

[weekender]

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=local&id=5010527

New article has some new info.

[PaperDoll]

She's not sick, IMO. She's a depraved woman who was so jealous and envious of this girl that she was simply going to get rid of her. Her agenda, while you call it idiotic,

I agree. She was acting on jealously and being VERY selfish... she wasn't acting like a sick mentally ill person..

[2luvmy]

Just a bit of info on astronaut diapers.

http://www.canadainspace.ca/qa.php?sectionName=qa&sectionID=1

Do astronauts wear diapers?

By Pauline Landry - School Programmes Officer at the H.R. MacMillan Space Centre in Vancouver
Astronauts wear diapers during lift-off, reentry, and while on spacewalks. As soon as the spacecraft reaches orbit astronauts remove their orange survival suits (diapers included) and put on regular clothes for the rest of the mission. Because astronauts sit on the launch pad, strapped into their seats for over three hours, they all have to wear diapers. Astronauts also wear diapers when they are working in space during spacewalks which normally last 5-8 hours. In both cases, changing out of the spacesuit to go to the bathroom just takes too long.

http://www.nsbri.org/HumanPhysSpace/focus4/spacephy.html

Pretend you are an astronaut preparing for launch. You are strapped into your seat in the shuttle at least three hours before launch; you are wearing your Launch and Entry Suit (LES) with an attached helmet and visor. The LES is a pressurized space suit that provides pure oxygen for breathing in the event of a bailout at high altitude. In addition, the LES is a buoyant suit (it floats). You are also wearing a parachute. With all of these safety measures in place, you are still not protected from the fluid elimination function that your body will soon begin!

[julianne]

IF I was her attended victim I would want her in a psych hospital being evaluated. This women clearly lost the ability to determine what is in her best intrest when she decided to act on her distored reality. Yes, I believe she is mentally Ill . Your lack of compassion scares me.

mjak
Sorry. I don't have one iota of compassion for Lisa. I do have compassion for her intended victim, though--and I'm glad that Lisas' "plan" wasn't allowed to come to fruition. What if she succeeded in kidnapping & killing Colleen? Would you still feel that she shouldn't be jailed?

I'm sorry you feel that my post was "cold and unfeeling", as you indicated in your later post. I have a tendency to be cold and unfeeling toward attempted murderers, but that's just me.

[j2mirish]

Sorry. I don't have one iota of compassion for Lisa. I do have compassion for her intended victim, though--and I'm glad that Lisas' "plan" wasn't allowed to come to fruition. What if she succeeded in kidnapping & killing Colleen? Would you still feel that she shouldn't be jailed?

I'm sorry you feel that my post was "cold and unfeeling", as you indicated in your later post. I have a tendency to be cold and unfeeling toward attempted murderers, but that's just me.OH.......but julianne, if you would read everything you could, you would find this was completly out of character for her, she was a wife, mother and nasa employee who had no problems in her background.......married to a mission control person, a woman who flew a shuttle, nothing but kudos in her career and still was going strong--3 kids, I am sure a fabulous home, health benefits, etcetcetcetc,---how can you not feel sorry for her? ok.........I dont either :D ---
I find it interesting that seperated or not- after 19 years of marriage her husband didnt come to retrieve her, or help--- that is a big statement to me-

[PaperDoll]

OH.......but julianne, if you would read everything you could, you would find this was completly out of character for her, she was a wife, mother and nasa employee who had no problems in her background.......married to a mission control person, a woman who flew a shuttle, nothing but kudos in her career and still was going strong--3 kids, I am sure a fabulous home, health benefits, etcetcetcetc,---how can you not feel sorry for her? ok.........I dont either :D ---
I find it interesting that seperated or not- after 19 years of marriage her husband didnt come to retrieve her, or help--- that is a big statement to me-
I wonder what his role is in all this? meaning what was going in the their marriage...

[richandfamous]

This coming week is National Mental Health Care week.

You can do your part by remembering to contact at least one unstable person to show you care.

Ok, consider yourselves contacted!

Well, my job is done!



PS: the only thing more nuts than this woman is the media's fixation with this story. geesh

PSS: makes one wonder about how good all those psycho evals are...huh!

PSSS: and lest we think this is a female hysteria only problem, let's all remember all those freakin crazy men in high places that go off the deep end and steal fighter planes and crash them in utah...>>>>?????

[j2mirish]

I wonder what his role is in all this? meaning what was going in the their marriage...
my only thought was he was away of an affair, that is the only reason I can think he wasnt there to assist her- 19 years is a long time-
I find it ineresting too, that out of the 3 folks, she was the "married" one

[richandfamous]

oh, and by the way, everyone knows that if you're too smart (genius), you are totally on the edge of crazy.

it's that "striking similarity between everything and nothing" thingy.
jmo....lol

[jillybean]

I wonder if it had been a Male Astronaut would he still be in jail. Why do some give such sympathy just because it's a woman who committed the crime, instead of a man.

Women can be just as Evil, IMHO.

[curious1]

I agree. Mary Winkler is a good example. Not of being evil I mean, although there is a good case for that, but for being out before her trial and allowed to pretty much roam free.

[jillybean]

oh, and by the way, everyone knows that if you're too smart (genius), you are totally on the edge of crazy.

it's that "striking similarity between everything and nothing" thingy.
jmo....lol
Are you calling me crazyyyyyyyyyy? ROFL:waitasec: hehe