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Samiya
03-22-2007, 03:16 AM
I know there's a few new posters coming in for this forum, so Welcome. Yes that includes you Jake :)

Please read the Terms of Service as we were reminded to last night.

http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44926

And I'm sure we can all go back to being on even ground.

Sami

SueY
03-22-2007, 03:46 AM
Thanks, Samiya.
May the rest of this week bring an arrest or at least some news.
RIP Michelle Young and babes.

Taximom
03-22-2007, 06:50 AM
Thanks, Samiya.
May the rest of this week bring an arrest or at least some news.
RIP Michelle Young and babes.

Amen to that.

Barney Fife
03-22-2007, 11:00 AM
I have reason to believe to this day LE is still trying to match fingerprints in the house. Is it really necessary for a good case to have known matches for all prints in a large home? We know lE printed all the "inter circle" that have been in the home. In addition, LE went to Brevard to obtain prints from those friends and family. If they still have some "phantom prints" could that be a big defense issue the DA would want to over come before an arrest is made ?

DEPUTYDAWG
03-22-2007, 11:03 AM
Sami,
My apologies, I posted on Part #14 this morning, and I don't know how to move it over to here.

Sooooo...just bumping this thread up this morning!

DD

less0305
03-22-2007, 11:17 AM
I have reason to believe to this day LE is still trying to match fingerprints in the house. Is it really necessary for a good case to have known matches for all prints in a large home? We know lE printed all the "inter circle" that have been in the home. In addition, LE went to Brevard to obtain prints from those friends and family. If they still have some "phantom prints" could that be a big defense issue the DA would want to over come before an arrest is made ?

Oh, absolutely. The DA is going to want those prints ID'd before a trial, because that just leaves a huge hole for any defense attorney to say - "the mystery prints are your killer, not my client."

Scout
03-22-2007, 12:38 PM
Is Jake still a registered member here? If so, I'd like to ask him a question regarding Jason's Ford Explorer.

When the Explorer was handed over by LE to Jason's attorney, was all original equipment still intact? Specifically, was the rear seat in the vehicle? Had any upholstery been cut away? TIA

Utopia
03-22-2007, 03:25 PM
Hey Scout! I solved your riddle...I hope I made your day!

Have a good one.

Utopia

ETA: I put the answer in the comments but now I'm wondering if I should have as I don't want to spoil it for others. Feel free to remove it if you like. And it wasn't that easy, I thought you did a great job! Very creative.

Barney Fife
03-22-2007, 03:42 PM
Oh, absolutely. The DA is going to want those prints ID'd before a trial, because that just leaves a huge hole for any defense attorney to say - "the mystery prints are your killer, not my client."


Since there are "unmatched" prints in the home to this day, it may be a while before there is an arrest. Sure hope they have a pile more to make this a moot point at trial.

DEPUTYDAWG
03-22-2007, 04:18 PM
Since there are "unmatched" prints in the home to this day, it may be a while before there is an arrest. Sure hope they have a pile more to make this a moot point at trial.

IMO,

Depends where these unmatched prints were found and collected. Do they appear to be relevant to where the crime scene was? I.e., if there's unmatched prints in the kitchen, and there didn't appear to be a struggle downstairs, they may not be as critical to the investigation as if they were found in the MB or close proximity to MY's body. LE would want them all tested and on file, but the different prints will have varying degrees of importance.

Yes, they'll need more than just fingerprints to take a case forward. But the finding of unknown prints near MY or in critical areas of the determined crime scene would be more disturbing to investigators, which would mean more time. Versus, not finding unknown prints near MY or the actual crime scene.

ETA: Oops, just reread your post, and I'm assuming you already knew what I posted. You were making a statement rather than asking a question. Sorry, I should probably just delete my words, but didn't want you to have read it and thought I was talking beneath you or anything. Sorry. Soooo, yes, agree it takes longer to run all the prints through AFIS, etc.

jilly
03-22-2007, 04:19 PM
Since there are "unmatched" prints in the home to this day, it may be a while before there is an arrest. Sure hope they have a pile more to make this a moot point at trial.


Well like someone suggested at CTV - how many foreign fingerprints would you expect in the master bedroom and master bath.

jilly
03-22-2007, 04:23 PM
DD my dear! Looks like we were thinking at the same time - only you of course have put more detail into your thoughts, hehe. Hey you're really rockin' on this forum! I don't think I've been on a forum with you before and I am really enjoying your insight and contribution!!:)

DEPUTYDAWG
03-22-2007, 04:31 PM
DD my dear! Looks like we were thinking at the same time - only you of course have put more detail into your thoughts, hehe. Hey you're really rockin' on this forum! I don't think I've been on a forum with you before and I am really enjoying your insight and contribution!!:)

Hey Miss Jilly :woohoo:

Really, we've never really been on the same forum? I know we posted "elsewhere" together, but I guess I just assumed we did other WS forums together, as well. It feels like it, I'm always so glad to "see you around :crazy: "

Yes, we were thinking alike on fingerprints.

Barney Fife
03-22-2007, 04:34 PM
Well like someone suggested at CTV - how many foreign fingerprints would you expect in the master bedroom and master bath.

I know WCSO is very interested in talking to anyone who has been in the house so they can look at prints. The investigator was not specific as to "unmatched" print locations. I guess we should assume the prints are in the area of the actual crime scene.

DEPUTYDAWG
03-22-2007, 04:51 PM
I know WCSO is very interested in talking to anyone who has been in the house so they can look at prints. The investigator was not specific as to "unmatched" print locations. I guess we should assume the prints are in the area of the actual crime scene.

I find that very interesting.

Barney Fife
03-22-2007, 05:23 PM
I find that very interesting.

I did too. This investigator trolls CTV and asked about someone's identity that had been in the Young's home. He jumped right on it Saturday and said "We are also in a process of identifying anybody who has been in the house so we can obtain what are called elimination fingerprints to try to account for all fingerprint impressions located in the house"

DEPUTYDAWG
03-22-2007, 05:34 PM
I did too. This investigator trolls CTV and asked about someone's identity that had been in the Young's home. He jumped right on it Saturday and said "We are also in a process of identifying anybody who has been in the house so we can obtain what are called elimination fingerprints to try to account for all fingerprint impressions located in the house"

Well, although that takes a long time, good for them! Glad to hear they're being thorough.

I don't post over at CTV, but I sometimes sit back and watch as the different factions fight it out as to whether LE scours the message boards, etc. as part of investigations. Certainly, I don't personally know about WCSO or this specific case...but with absolute 100% conviction, I can say I know many in LE that do indeed, including follow-up in traffic fatality accidents. The spider webs from myspace, etc. can be wonderful investigative leads. ;)

DEPUTYDAWG
03-22-2007, 05:39 PM
I did too. This investigator trolls CTV and asked about someone's identity that had been in the Young's home. He jumped right on it Saturday and said "We are also in a process of identifying anybody who has been in the house so we can obtain what are called elimination fingerprints to try to account for all fingerprint impressions located in the house"

And following up...were you implying that someone had posted at CTV that they had personally been in the home? I don't venture over there on a consistent basis. So, I don't know who said that. (Should I guess? PM me, if you'd rather.) I just wanted to make sure I understood that correctly.

Who the he!!, who would be so intrinsically (sp?) involved in the case, would actually post such a thing? That's what I don't get. Too much at risk. Once an individual might be called as a witness in such an important case, the less said the better. Why post it on the internet? I don't think there's a positive to that, just a possible negative. JMHO

DD

Barney Fife
03-22-2007, 05:44 PM
And following up...were you implying that someone had posted at CTV that they had personally been in the home? I don't venture over there on a consistent basis. So, I don't know who said that. (Should I guess? PM me, if you'd rather.) I just wanted to make sure I understood that correctly.

Who the he!!, who would be so intrinsically (sp?) involved in the case, would actually post such a thing? That's what I don't get. Too much at risk. Once an individual might be called as a witness in such an important case, the less said the better. Why post it on the internet? I don't think there's a positive to that, just a possible negative. JMHO

DD

I feel more comfortable PM the details Deputy

strach304
03-22-2007, 06:34 PM
One person over there that originally claimed to be in the house before the murder was JTF. Can't remember for sure about the one that dismissed the babygate idea because they were in the house many times they said but I'm thinking that was Concerned Citizen and that was a long time ago. The friend that said she was there with her dogs that kept barking at something a few weeks before the murder. I know some morphed that info into it being the GA friend who was there that night and felt like they were being watched.

BF, are you saying that investigator posted what you wrote at ctv on Saturday?

ETA: Also someone contacted a poster on that board that reads but doesn't want to post there that said she had been in the house. That was posted on the first page of Saturday's thread by Springflowers.

Barney Fife
03-22-2007, 07:04 PM
One person over there that originally claimed to be in the house before the murder was JTF. Can't remember for sure about the one that dismissed the babygate idea because they were in the house many times they said but I'm thinking that was Concerned Citizen and that was a long time ago. The friend that said she was there with her dogs that kept barking at something a few weeks before the murder. I know some morphed that info into it being the GA friend who was there that night and felt like they were being watched.

BF, are you saying that investigator posted what you wrote at ctv on Saturday?

ETA: Also someone contacted a poster on that board that reads but doesn't want to post there that said she had been in the house. That was posted on the first page of Saturday's thread by Springflowers.

You are on the right track strach304.....

FactsareFacts
03-22-2007, 07:12 PM
You are on the right track strach304.....


Well I was just reading over at CTV:doh:

Wont be joining to post from what I am reading. It's like a school yard over there.

Someone named Mimiof5 is saying MF must not be very upset about Michelle's death because she laughed and apparently kissed her boyfriend at the funeral. If I am reading her posts correctly I think she is saying MF killed Michelle.:mad:

Barney Fife
03-22-2007, 07:19 PM
Well I was just reading over at CTV:doh:

Wont be joining to post from what I am reading. It's like a school yard over there.

Someone named Mimiof5 is saying MF must not be very upset about Michelle's death because she laughed and apparently kissed her boyfriend at the funeral. If I am reading her posts correctly I think she is saying MF killed Michelle.:mad:

Mimi is a legend @ CTV in her own mind.

FactsareFacts
03-22-2007, 07:28 PM
Mimi is a legend @ CTV in her own mind.


I guess I should read over there a bit more. This is the first I have seen anyone imply MF might have killed Michelle. I don't believe that for a minute and I think it's terrible she is posting that.:mad:

Samiya
03-22-2007, 07:48 PM
I guess I should read over there a bit more. This is the first I have seen anyone imply MF might have killed Michelle. I don't believe that for a minute and I think it's terrible she is posting that.:mad:

Meredith has been everything from implied to outright accused of being Michelle's killer over yonder.

Sami

FactsareFacts
03-22-2007, 07:56 PM
Meredith has been everything from implied to outright accused of being Michelle's killer over yonder.

Sami

Wow I see that. Have been reading some old threads over there and I am just amazed. I don't understand why anyone would think that. The Sheriff has never even mentioned such a thing. I don't think there are any search warrants for anything pertaining to Merideth are there?

jilly
03-22-2007, 08:26 PM
Wow I see that. Have been reading some old threads over there and I am just amazed. I don't understand why anyone would think that. The Sheriff has never even mentioned such a thing. I don't think there are any search warrants for anything pertaining to Merideth are there?

Oh yeah Facts there's more - like it was a lucky break that Meredith got that message from JY because it then gave her justification for being in the house. And let's not forget that Meredith and Cassidy sat & watched The Lion King during the morning eating jellybeans. Oh - and Meredith didn't sound concerned at all on the 911 tape.

At least I think that's what they were saying. I try to skim through it all.

FactsareFacts
03-22-2007, 08:33 PM
Oh yeah Facts there's more - like it was a lucky break that Meredith got that message from JY because it then gave her justification for being in the house. And let's not forget that Meredith and Cassidy sat & watched The Lion King during the morning eating jellybeans. Oh - and Meredith didn't sound concerned at all on the 911 tape.

At least I think that's what they were saying. I try to skim through it all.


If I joined over there I think I would get banned the first day! They seem like the type of people who would send Scott Peterson fan mail! I had no idea there were people saying Merideth might be the killer. Wonder if they are family or friends of Jason? Either way it's a horrible accusation IMO. :behindbar

Utopia
03-22-2007, 08:36 PM
Oh yeah Facts there's more - like it was a lucky break that Meredith got that message from JY because it then gave her justification for being in the house. And let's not forget that Meredith and Cassidy sat & watched The Lion King during the morning eating jellybeans. Oh - and Meredith didn't sound concerned at all on the 911 tape.

At least I think that's what they were saying. I try to skim through it all.

Jilly, don't forget to tell Facts about the fishbats...:waitasec:

Facts, I tried to warn ya - schoolyard is a perfect description

happy2bn10ec
03-22-2007, 08:37 PM
I guess I should read over there a bit more. This is the first I have seen anyone imply MF might have killed Michelle. I don't believe that for a minute and I think it's terrible she is posting that.:mad:

Don't waste your time - it is an asylum. I tried it when WS was down. It's not worth wading through the muck to get a rumor or two.

Mimi's mantra is that MF did it.

FactsareFacts
03-22-2007, 08:44 PM
Jilly, don't forget to tell Facts about the fishbats...:waitasec:

Facts, I tried to warn ya - schoolyard is a perfect description


Fishbats? :confused: Don't want to sound stupid, but what are they?

Mimi is like no poster I have ever read before. She words things as if they are facts. She makes many posts that at first glance made me think she had something to do with law for her profession, but the more I read the more thats just funny. :D

Utopia
03-22-2007, 08:57 PM
If you really want to know Facts, go back over there, with wading boots and armour, and read the last few pages from last night...I can't relive the experience and I don't want to take up valuable WS space - it was entertaining for awhile though.

I do love their runaway chicken, he gets a lot of exercise over there.

Have fun:D

Utopia

Fishbats? :confused: Don't want to sound stupid, but what are they?

Mimi is like no poster I have ever read before. She words things as if they are facts. She makes many posts that at first glance made me think she had something to do with law for her profession, but the more I read the more thats just funny. :D

FactsareFacts
03-22-2007, 09:33 PM
If you really want to know Facts, go back over there, with wading boots and armour, and read the last few pages from last night...I can't relive the experience and I don't want to take up valuable WS space - it was entertaining for awhile though.

I do love their runaway chicken, he gets a lot of exercise over there.

Have fun:D

Utopia
:laugh: :laugh: Oh wow!!! They need a flock of chickens for an icon after reading that. I have to admit I laughed out loud! I still don't know WTH a fishbat is though. Someone said you use it to hit the fish on the head; which I guess could be true. Someone else posted it was a cross between a fish and a bat!!! Can't say I have ever seen anything that would resemble a fishbat in my life though. Crazyness over there for sure! :D

Utopia
03-22-2007, 10:42 PM
I don't know what's worse, my reading through all that last night, or that I actually googled fishbat :loser:...and yes, I laughed out loud too. I think in fact its both a fish conker outer and an exotic type of fish (not from NC though!). I just hope that wasn't the weapon that killed Michelle Young.

On a more "on topic" subject, they were having some interesting discussion over there about whether or not the 911 tape would be admitted in court as evidence, which is something I was wondering about. This may have already been discussed here previously but I've only read about half of the threads in this forum, so I may have missed it. It seems some think it will and some not - for various reasons of course, depending on who they think committed the murder. I hope it does get in.

Along similar lines, I wondered if Cassidy was interviewed by an appropriate expert soon after her harrowing experience, or if she has had counseling since. If so, might that person(s) be called to testify. My guess is that she may be considered too young for what she has to say to have any real value - but you never know. (note: "too Young" - unintentional pun, i.e. she could have been reprogrammed as well)

Late night ramblings...(yikes it 2:30am here, I better hit the sack).

G'nite all - Utopia

:laugh: :laugh: Oh wow!!! They need a flock of chickens for an icon after reading that. I have to admit I laughed out loud! I still don't know WTH a fishbat is though. Someone said you use it to hit the fish on the head; which I guess could be true. Someone else posted it was a cross between a fish and a bat!!! Can't say I have ever seen anything that would resemble a fishbat in my life though. Crazyness over there for sure! :D

Smugshots
03-22-2007, 10:46 PM
Last night Jake suggested MY was seeing the therapist concerning something that may have happened over the summer, some questioned why MY would then wait till Oct. time frame to see someone if something happened during the summer. She may not have had a choice. Sometimes it takes 6-8 weeks or longer to get into a therapist. Many are booked and don’t except new patients I have known 2 people that have experienced this.

Utopia
03-23-2007, 06:46 AM
Exactly. Not only that but it may have taken time for her to decide to seek counseling. I sought counseling through my work's EAP several years ago and it WAS months before I finally decided the problem wasn't going to go away without some help. The other part of that discussion was whether or not Michelle chose that particular therapist because she specializes in transgender issues. I know that when I finally made the phone call, I was not asked the specific nature of the "problem" but I was asked whether it was personal, financial or work related and they referred me to a particular counselor from there - I was not given a choice or a list to choose from.

Utopia

P.S. Where is everybody?:confused:

Last night Jake suggested MY was seeing the therapist concerning something that may have happened over the summer, some questioned why MY would then wait till Oct. time frame to see someone if something happened during the summer. She may not have had a choice. Sometimes it takes 6-8 weeks or longer to get into a therapist. Many are booked and don’t except new patients I have known 2 people that have experienced this.

Bee Charmer
03-23-2007, 08:32 AM
Good morning everyone. Very nice to see DeputyDawg here, and agree with the very good observation about why Michelle was seeking the advice of a therapist. The more I think about this, the more I am convinced DD is correct. Have we ever heard that Michelle was thrilled
about the impending birth?

BTW, so nice to have this place back up and running. An oasis from the
gameplaying at court tv.

DEPUTYDAWG
03-23-2007, 08:53 AM
Good morning everyone. Very nice to see DeputyDawg here, and agree with the very good observation about why Michelle was seeking the advice of a therapist. The more I think about this, the more I am convinced DD is correct. Have we ever heard that Michelle was thrilled
about the impending birth?

BTW, so nice to have this place back up and running. An oasis from the
gameplaying at court tv.

Good morning, Bee, and thanks.
No, I haven't read anything such as comments from her family members, etc. about her being very excited about the impending birth. I would think maybe (but not necessarily) that her closest of friends may have known if she was emotionally conflicted about it. Those therapist's notes should be interesting, even if all that comes out is just the key subject matter. I almost hope all the smaller details don't come out.

Blessings to Michelle, her unborn son, and Cassidy....

DEPUTYDAWG
03-23-2007, 09:12 AM
Who the heck is NetBrood over at CTV?

raisincharlie
03-23-2007, 09:23 AM
Who the heck is NetBrood over at CTV?


Not what it claims to be :D

FactsareFacts
03-23-2007, 09:24 AM
Who the heck is NetBrood over at CTV?

Sybil???:crazy: LMAO

raisincharlie
03-23-2007, 09:54 AM
Sybil???:crazy: LMAO

I'm skeerd - I think there is a whole troop of Sybils related to this.:)

DEPUTYDAWG
03-23-2007, 09:56 AM
Not what it claims to be :D

Nahhhh, really???? :laugh:

:doh: :doh: :doh: :doh:

Somebody's prescription needs to be refilled, IMO :silenced:

DEPUTYDAWG
03-23-2007, 09:57 AM
Sybil???:crazy: LMAO

:laugh: :laugh:

FactsareFacts
03-23-2007, 09:58 AM
Nahhhh, really???? :laugh:

:doh: :doh: :doh: :doh:

Somebody's prescription needs to be refilled, IMO :silenced:

Yes and maybe the dosage upped too! :p

Bee Charmer
03-23-2007, 10:05 AM
Who the heck is NetBrood over at CTV?

I think it's a good possibility that more then one person is
using the nic "netbrood" to play games with the forum. Those people, imo, should be very ashamed of themselves.

DEPUTYDAWG
03-23-2007, 10:07 AM
I think it's a good possibility that more then one person is
using the nic "netbrood" to play games with the forum. Those people, imo, should be very ashamed of themselves.

I agree, I think it's disgusting. It's clearly a game to whomever....

FactsareFacts
03-23-2007, 10:38 AM
I agree, I think it's disgusting. It's clearly a game to whomever....


Between the crazy posts from Netbrood and the posts from that Mimi about Merideth I think CTV must be like a magnet for .....well those whose elevators don't go to the top floor?:eek:

DEPUTYDAWG
03-23-2007, 11:14 AM
Between the crazy posts from Netbrood and the posts from that Mimi about Merideth I think CTV must be like a magnet for .....well those whose elevators don't go to the top floor?:eek:

...or those who get stuck on an escalator when the power goes off??? :eek:

Barney Fife
03-23-2007, 11:16 AM
Between the crazy posts from Netbrood and the posts from that Mimi about Merideth I think CTV must be like a magnet for .....well those whose elevators don't go to the top floor?:eek:


Careful not offend the new poster "Jake".
"Jake" and Mimi are best buds. Where do you think she comes up
with her so called "inside material " ?

:dance:

Samiya
03-23-2007, 11:17 AM
Well, it looks like I am Poppet apparently.

LMAO!

Sami

DEPUTYDAWG
03-23-2007, 11:18 AM
Careful not offend the new poster "Jake".
"Jake" and Mimi are best buds. Where do you think she comes up
with her so called "inside material " ?

:dance:

Wondered why Jake didn't come visit us last night....

P.S. Did you happen to get my PM? Interested in your thoughts about that question I posed. TIA! :blowkiss:

DEPUTYDAWG
03-23-2007, 11:20 AM
Well, it looks like I am Poppet apparently.

LMAO!

Sami

:slap:

I need a new nic, too!

FactsareFacts
03-23-2007, 11:25 AM
Careful not offend the new poster "Jake".
"Jake" and Mimi are best buds. Where do you think she comes up
with her so called "inside material " ?

:dance:


Jake that was posting here the other night?:confused: He is buddies with Mimi or he is Mimi over there? This is like a soap opera:D

Barney Fife
03-23-2007, 11:25 AM
Wondered why Jake didn't come visit us last night....

P.S. Did you happen to get my PM? Interested in your thoughts about that question I posed. TIA! :blowkiss:

Yes, see reply

FactsareFacts
03-23-2007, 11:28 AM
Well, it looks like I am Poppet apparently.

LMAO!

Sami


OK are you the same Samiya that posts at CTV? If you are, you crack me up with some of your funny comments.:p I guess humor helps to deal with the craziness.

Samiya
03-23-2007, 11:50 AM
OK are you the same Samiya that posts at CTV? If you are, you crack me up with some of your funny comments.:p I guess humor helps to deal with the craziness.

Yep, that's me :)

I can't help it over there........with all the brooding going on.

Sami

nanandjim
03-23-2007, 11:57 AM
I know WCSO is very interested in talking to anyone who has been in the house so they can look at prints. The investigator was not specific as to "unmatched" print locations. I guess we should assume the prints are in the area of the actual crime scene.
I would think that it may be a near impossible task to match any and all prints found in the home. How old is the home? How many owners were there prior to the Youngs? There could be all sorts of unknown prints left in the home by the previous owners, their relatives, guests, housekeepers, etc. These prints could even be in the proximity of the murder scene.

Bee Charmer
03-23-2007, 12:01 PM
Careful not offend the new poster "Jake".
"Jake" and Mimi are best buds. Where do you think she comes up
with her so called "inside material " ?

:dance:

Any facts to support that statement, or are you just saying it
because at times Mimi appears to agree with some of what "Jake" posts?

FactsareFacts
03-23-2007, 12:15 PM
Any facts to support that statement, or are you just saying it
because at times Mimi appears to agree with some of what "Jake" posts?


Has Jake posted at CTV? Did he post anything about Merideth being the killer too? I just don't get where that comes from. I was tempted to register last night when I read Mimi's comments about how Merideth must not be very upset about Michelle's death because she supposedly laughed and hugged her boyfriend ("African Boyfriend" thats just wrong on many levels) at the funeral.:(

jake
03-23-2007, 12:56 PM
Has Jake posted at CTV? Did he post anything about Merideth being the killer too? I just don't get where that comes from. I was tempted to register last night when I read Mimi's comments about how Merideth must not be very upset about Michelle's death because she supposedly laughed and hugged her boyfriend ("African Boyfriend" thats just wrong on many levels) at the funeral.:(

Howdy,

The moderator here told me he doesn't like my posting style, so I will not post my opinions any more and hope I will not get kicked off. Not angry about anything...the moderator should be in charge of who posts and how.

Several of you have asked about MF and the accusations against her. Since she is not a suspect nor even a POI, those accusations, I reckon, have no place on a message board. Just the Facts discovered that when kicked off CTV and all posts burned.

But for those interested in history, including many comments by JTF, an early insider, I am posting a link below to a blog and posting board by Observations of a Misfit. The earliest entries about this case are from November 10 or thereabout. http://www.mermaidsinging.com/2006/11/trotting_out_the_constitutiona.htm#comment-2351

--Jake

FactsareFacts
03-23-2007, 01:25 PM
Howdy,

The moderator here told me he doesn't like my posting style, so I will not post my opinions any more and hope I will not get kicked off. Not angry about anything...the moderator should be in charge of who posts and how.

Several of you have asked about MF and the accusations against her. Since she is not a suspect nor even a POI, those accusations, I reckon, have no place on a message board. Just the Facts discovered that when kicked off CTV and all posts burned.

But for those interested in history, including many comments by JTF, an early insider, I am posting a link below to a blog and posting board by Observations of a Misfit. The earliest entries about this case are from November 10 or thereabout. http://www.mermaidsinging.com/2006/11/trotting_out_the_constitutiona.htm#comment-2351

--Jake


Well I am very happy to hear that you feel that way about Merideth's involvement Jake. For the record I truly hope Jason did not do this because Cassidy would lose both parents and she has been thru enough. Thank you for the link, I will check that out. Wonder why Mimi's posts about Merideth aren't burned too?

raisincharlie
03-23-2007, 02:05 PM
I would think that it may be a near impossible task to match any and all prints found in the home. How old is the home? How many owners were there prior to the Youngs? There could be all sorts of unknown prints left in the home by the previous owners, their relatives, guests, housekeepers, etc. These prints could even be in the proximity of the murder scene.

nanandjim,

The house was built in 1991 and there have been four previous owners prior to the Youngs. In addition it has been said that the Youngs entertained friends on numerous occasions. Yes, I am sure it is a fairly complicated process of identifying prints within the home.

Hope you are doing well !

pack_fan
03-23-2007, 02:23 PM
nanandjim,

The house was built in 1991 and there have been four previous owners prior to the Youngs. In addition it has been said that the Youngs entertained friends on numerous occasions. Yes, I am sure it is a fairly complicated process of identifying prints within the home.

Hope you are doing well !


Welcome home rc.

How long will prints stay in tact so to speak. Assuming a print was left in a certain location undisturbed, would it remain there and be able to be identified for a month, year, 5, 10, since 1991?

I am also assuming that they are looking for prints in the master bed/bath, all entry points, and other critical locations. Not every single room in the home, correct?

nanandjim
03-23-2007, 02:51 PM
nanandjim,

The house was built in 1991 and there have been four previous owners prior to the Youngs. In addition it has been said that the Youngs entertained friends on numerous occasions. Yes, I am sure it is a fairly complicated process of identifying prints within the home.

Hope you are doing well !

Hey RC. I am doing well. Thanks for asking. :) I think that it is pretty much a foregone conclusion that LE has narrowed the list of suspect(s). ;)

Scandi said, "I think Michelle told the therapist about a threat on her life from someone, and she was scared to death it might come true and didn't know how to address the problem."

I tend to agree. I think Jason could have made ominous threats to Michelle that she may have mentioned to the therapist. I believe that the therapist has information that is directly tied to the murderer. I think that it is just another nail in Jason's coffin. I hope and pray that the police are able to piece it all together and find justice for Michelle.

nanandjim
03-23-2007, 02:53 PM
Welcome home rc.

How long will prints stay in tact so to speak. Assuming a print was left in a certain location undisturbed, would it remain there and be able to be identified for a month, year, 5, 10, since 1991?

I am also assuming that they are looking for prints in the master bed/bath, all entry points, and other critical locations. Not every single room in the home, correct?

I know that this question is not to me, but I thought that there was no way to tell the age of fingerprints. Also, I would assume that fingerprints could remain intact forever if left undisturbed.

raisincharlie
03-23-2007, 03:29 PM
Welcome home rc.

How long will prints stay in tact so to speak. Assuming a print was left in a certain location undisturbed, would it remain there and be able to be identified for a month, year, 5, 10, since 1991?

I am also assuming that they are looking for prints in the master bed/bath, all entry points, and other critical locations. Not every single room in the home, correct?

pack fan,

I have no idea how long a print would hang around, most likely it would vary with the environment it is exposed to. I would also think that since the house was sold on a fairly frequent basis, there would be some repainting done to spruce it up, on at least one or more occasions, however I doubt doors, moulding, and cabinetry would would have changed much.

I would agree prints would be taken from critical points such as entrances and exits or around any windows that may not have been locked shut as well as in any areas identifed as directly involved in the crime. I imagine it is quite a jigsaw puzzle for sure.

raisincharlie
03-23-2007, 03:32 PM
Hey RC. I am doing well. Thanks for asking. :) I think that it is pretty much a foregone conclusion that LE has narrowed the list of suspect(s). ;)

Scandi said, "I think Michelle told the therapist about a threat on her life from someone, and she was scared to death it might come true and didn't know how to address the problem."

I tend to agree. I think Jason could have made ominous threats to Michelle that she may have mentioned to the therapist. I believe that the therapist has information that is directly tied to the murderer. I think that it is just another nail in Jason's coffin. I hope and pray that the police are able to piece it all together and find justice for Michelle.

I am of the opinion that JY exhibited some aggressive behavior toward Michelle as well - either verbally or physically or possibly both. I do not believe this was the happy couple some would like us to believe. Can't tell you why I think that other than it is just my opinion.

strach304
03-23-2007, 06:38 PM
I am of the opinion that JY exhibited some aggressive behavior toward Michelle as well - either verbally or physically or possibly both. I do not believe this was the happy couple some would like us to believe. Can't tell you why I think that other than it is just my opinion.

You're not alone RC. The affair, trips and the other rumors such as gambling, other things he would do, wearing boxers at his wedding shower, MIL rumors of not getting along with him (wonder why) complaining to female co-workers about his sex life, etc. are all examples of the picture we get of his character. Then we find out Michelle is seeing a therapist for what we do not know but it isn't a far jump to assume he didn't respect his wife and that does lead to many forms of abuse, betrayal, etc. If he personally didn't want to be married in the first place but did because that's how he was raised then I suppose he resented Michelle for it. If what we've heard about his mother and sisters are true then I don't think he'd want to disappoint them and felt the pressure to marry for the sake of being a stand up kinda guy in their eyes. I'm sure his friends and Michelle's also were getting married around that time and seemed like the natural thing to do. The physical abuse is the main thing I can think of (even if it was only once) that fits with the therapist being the only way to get that info and directly pertinent to the investigation as was worded in the article we read.

If Michelle went to see a therapist because of their problems and lets say there was one incident where JY hit her and then she found out about the affair and who it was with; Oh Boy! It seems to me if she was working on saving her marriage she wouldn't have confided that info to friends or family, only her therapist. That would of course account for the statement made to get the court order that it was the only way to get that info. Nobody else knew and it shows he had violent tendencies toward her. All speculation of course but that's what I expect to come from the therapist. All accounts we've heard so far as to Jason being capable of such brutality say no way.

raisincharlie
03-23-2007, 07:10 PM
I'm with you Strach - there are numerous indicators leaning toward this scenario. ;)

jilly
03-23-2007, 07:41 PM
Well, it looks like I am Poppet apparently.

LMAO!

Sami

I read that Sami! LOL Actually I had to read it twice - couldn't believe it! Biggest blunder of the year for that poster. We won't tell who Poppet is! hehe - Let im enjoy the egg on his face!

scandi
03-23-2007, 08:41 PM
Yes, I'm sure our little Poppet would laugh right along with us! I know her well, YaYa

About fingerprints, I think what they would have to take is any fingerprint that overlays any other one even by a smidge or single prints, and that goes together with palm or side hand prints.

JY's firm of Smith has used this in another case I guess, down to the last print, so none can be left unnamed. That could be quite a project if there are prints that can't be matched. They aren't all in CODA because they took a special trip and formed a laison with Brevard LE to fingerprint family and friends.

As to the reason that sent Michelle to consult with a therapist, I think it has to be much more than him hitting her. I don't think a judge would use that as a reason to break a Dr/patient relationship in the eyes of the law. I think it had to be a specific threat, like - If you kick me out and file for divorce and keep me from seeing my daughter, I will kill you. That is just very basic, I didn't get poetic with it. I could also see if JY was caught by Michelle doing something out of the ordinary and he told her he would bash her brains out if she ever told a soal as a reason to be very fearful on her part.

I just think it had to be something that turned Michelle's nervous system into a big shock wave. I think she was scared for her life.

I might also say at CTV they are saying Michelle did catch him with someone in their home. I've never heard that. Has anyone else heard that?

Also the possibility of a lover of JY getting rid of the wife has been thrown out there, but think it has no foundation, and also the idea the killer could be a woman. Since there is so much that leads to JY I am not at all convinced now that some lover had to have this man so bad she or he would kill to have him forever. I don't think so! Scandi

jilly
03-23-2007, 08:47 PM
Hey Scandi! Earlier I asked earlier on the O/T thread where you were. Don't remember seeing you yesterday! Glad you're ok!

scandi
03-23-2007, 09:50 PM
What a little Sweetie you are Jilly~ You put a big smile on my face. I got no sleep the night before 'cause of my dumb knee, so just read.

Have to run an errand, but will be back in about an hour!

pack_fan
03-23-2007, 10:47 PM
Yes, I'm sure our little Poppet would laugh right along with us! I know her well, YaYa

About fingerprints, I think what they would have to take is any fingerprint that overlays any other one even by a smidge or single prints, and that goes together with palm or side hand prints.

JY's firm of Smith has used this in another case I guess, down to the last print, so none can be left unnamed. That could be quite a project if there are prints that can't be matched. They aren't all in CODA because they took a special trip and formed a laison with Brevard LE to fingerprint family and friends.

As to the reason that sent Michelle to consult with a therapist, I think it has to be much more than him hitting her. I don't think a judge would use that as a reason to break a Dr/patient relationship in the eyes of the law. I think it had to be a specific threat, like - If you kick me out and file for divorce and keep me from seeing my daughter, I will kill you. That is just very basic, I didn't get poetic with it. I could also see if JY was caught by Michelle doing something out of the ordinary and he told her he would bash her brains out if she ever told a soal as a reason to be very fearful on her part.

I just think it had to be something that turned Michelle's nervous system into a big shock wave. I think she was scared for her life.

I might also say at CTV they are saying Michelle did catch him with someone in their home. I've never heard that. Has anyone else heard that?

Also the possibility of a lover of JY getting rid of the wife has been thrown out there, but think it has no foundation, and also the idea the killer could be a woman. Since there is so much that leads to JY I am not at all convinced now that some lover had to have this man so bad she or he would kill to have him forever. I don't think so! Scandi

I think the prints are going to be a tricky situation. Obviously LE would not dust the entire house so there has to be some sort of logic to the collection of the prints. Think the entry and exit points will be key as well as around the master bedroom and bath.

I'm sure that there are open and shut cases with husbands (or wives) that kill spouses. Obviously not a "crime junkie" but must be difficult to prove with dna when a spouse is very careful. You would expect to find their dna all over the house. Has to be in a very obvious place like under the fingernails for example. Seems as though there would be more circumstantial evidence than anything else.

I am also intrigued by the therapist. Wonder what type of evidence would be considered critical to the investigation. Don't know but would think it would have to be something substantial to be allowed rather than just standard crap about how he wouldn't take out the trash. Honestly, no marriage is perfect and if you catch me at the right times, you would probably think that mine was horrible as well. We don't brag about the good things but don't mind complaining when things aren't going our way. Back to the point, I doubt that the therapist came forward considering the amount of time that had passed, especially if they are required to report threats. Don't really know if this is true or not. I would be more inclined to beleive that LE found out about it through interviews but again wondering if information would be admissable for ordinary things that go along with a theory that LE has about an "unhappy marriage".

Just rambling, must be time to go to bed.

scandi
03-23-2007, 11:58 PM
Hi PackFan, Interesting thought about whether she approached LE or they found her. I agree with you about them finding out about her.

We know it made the judges right eyebrow raise up, right? That takes a lot, because they hear so much and probably always are able to hold their emotions in check. Had to be something very telling that could point to the perp. Now acc to Sami's link, the judge would order this if someone's life was in danger { or SS}.

Wouldn't you think she would realize this right off the bat the minute she learned of the death of her client?

The 3 1/2 month lag in time till we heard about this is what tells me they found her. I think she played it conservatively, knowing she could always go to them as they were still investigating. Her reputation could have been paramount to her decision what with past, present and future clients. She maybe was afraid of the liability and loss of clientelle, meaning $$$'s.

I know, I'm pretty cynical. LE should have learned about this right away. It couldn't have taken 3 1/2 months to deal with, could it?

Scandi

jilly
03-24-2007, 01:17 AM
I agree. I think LE found out about Michelle going to a therapist either through Project Energy or friends.

I don't think it had to be something big for the Judge to agree. I'm thinking it could have been something as simple as LE swearing out an affidavit saying that the Youngs' were having financial difficulty, JY was having a relationship with another woman, Michelle was murdered and the husband wasn't co-operating. They may have even had some evidence come back from the lab that they referred to in the affidavit as well. I think LE may have been on a fishing expedition with this one.

My feeling is that there's no threat to Michelle's life here. I think if there was Michelle would have gone to the police and/or a divorce lawyer.

I agree with everyone else. This poor woman's life was turmoil the last 6 months and she needed a therapist to pour her heart out. Obviously, JY was not interested in being there for her emotionally.

jilly
03-24-2007, 01:23 AM
Wouldn't you think she would realize this right off the bat the minute she learned of the death of her client?

The 3 1/2 month lag in time till we heard about this is what tells me they found her. I think she played it conservatively, knowing she could always go to them as they were still investigating. Her reputation could have been paramount to her decision what with past, present and future clients. She maybe was afraid of the liability and loss of clientelle, meaning $$$'s.

I know, I'm pretty cynical. LE should have learned about this right away. It couldn't have taken 3 1/2 months to deal with, could it?

Scandi

Scandi - I don't know what exactly was going on with the therapist, if it's true that LE found her. I would think she could have gone to the police when she found out about the murder and told them they'd have to get a Court Order for her notes. That way she would still be protected legally in that she would not be violating the therapist/client priviledge.

Just guessing here - could be right off base.

scandi
03-24-2007, 02:07 AM
That does sound like a plausible answer Jilly. If she told LE she needed a court order to learn info that could possibly help in their investigation it would protect her practice and at the same time do right by Michelle.

Why would that process take so long?

Jilly, I was too far behind to read tonight at CTV. Did anything else come out of interest?

Scandi


PS: Oh, I love our new formatting!

strach304
03-24-2007, 03:47 AM
Hi everyone :blowkiss: Been popping in and out, I've started a new medication and it's making me very sleepy.

Scandi, your theory of threats to Michelle's life could very well be right imo because you see that alone might not be enough for an arrest because it doesn't prove he did kill her. To be clearer of what I mean is if Michelle told her he said something physically threatening in the heat of an argument but had not acted on it just shows that he made the threat and she took it seriously enough to tell her therapist. The part about the therapist that sticks out to me is LE saying they could not obtain that info in any other way so I believe it has to be something friends and family weren't aware of or where other records existed. Something told to a therapist in Michelle's own words to me mean a great deal but show another side to Jason possibly that noone else was aware of.

strach304
03-24-2007, 04:04 AM
Jilly, you make some very good points but since the therapist sessions were close in proximity to the time she was killed we don't know if she was advised to go to LE with threats or suspicions of other things (will, accident) possible one time violent episode, etc. and she didn't get the chance of doing anything formal before her murder. Her decision also could have been divorce in the scenario that you have all these other problems and then she found out about the affair but she's the one in therapy? That would be one heck of a slap in the face but sudden realization that she wasn't the problem so to speak and no amount of therapy was gonna fix that so a logical conclusion of divorce was made. I still wonder about a catalyst for that night that set things in motion that caused a heated fight between the two but there are good arguments also for premeditation given Jason knew her plans to divorce him and this is how he chose to settle it.

scandi
03-24-2007, 07:39 AM
Hi Strach, You take care honey. If your meds makes you sleepy it could be your body needs some good sleep!

I've thought a lot about Michelle's situation, and I always stumble over the fact that a threat or fear of dangerous repurcussions on her if she were to take an action like filing for divorce or asking him to leave, can't be remedied by LE at that point. Not until there is an overt action of harm on his part I believe. If he had a record or there was a history of DV it might be different, but I don't think there was. LE would tell her to file a restraining order, but like I have said before, what good does that do when he is suddenly there, won't let you use the phone and then has his fingers on your neck!

Was that gobbltegook I read at CTV that JY was a felon?

I think the therapist told her to go about her plan in an organized way and start by giving him a specific date to start moving his things out of the house. I do believe that Thursday was the day as he supposedly left with 'baggage', and believe Michelle chose that date hurredly as he was getting more verbally abusive to her by the day. Once that cycle starts it only escalates from what I've seen.

The fact it was the big weekend and friends were coming means nothing to me, as those plans would have been set in place way before. Maybe she told him that Thursday to get out if she had just learned about MM. I think that is what happened. That was major.

And something else I read at CTV tonight was there could have been some changing of documents by JY that she learned about {will or insurance policies} and if she had told him she was going to file for divorce which prompted his trying to change things, it could have speeded up the day she wanted him to leave.

What if he used the library computer to access these documents and make changes he wanted? Could the law office who wrote the docs, or insurance agent get notice they had been pulled up on line and were fanageled with? I don't know. Wouldn't he have to use a password to get into the docs? And that might alert someone the docs were being reviewed. Michelle could have had a call informing her of this. If he did this on the home computer, she might have come across it if she was searching for things to use in the divorce as we have talked about before.

I don't know, but like Sami's link stated, the reason for a judge to make a decision like he did had to be that there was the possibility someone was in danger to decide to go to a therapist. I'm going to have to go back and try and find that link! LOL

Sorry this got so long. Back to bed!

Whimsigal
03-24-2007, 09:14 AM
Scandi,

You asked if that was gobbledegook that you read about JY being a felon. If you are referring to the post by someone named Lou Malone at CTV, I believe that post was made in error. I went and looked at all his other posts and they were in a forum call the McGuire Murder. I believe the victim in that case may have also been named Michelle.

Hope you're doing well!!

raisincharlie
03-24-2007, 10:37 AM
<snip>

The 3 1/2 month lag in time till we heard about this is what tells me they found her. I think she played it conservatively, knowing she could always go to them as they were still investigating. Her reputation could have been paramount to her decision what with past, present and future clients. She maybe was afraid of the liability and loss of clientelle, meaning $$$'s.

I know, I'm pretty cynical. LE should have learned about this right away. It couldn't have taken 3 1/2 months to deal with, could it?

Scandi

Scandi,

I think it is very possible that LE was aware of the therapist very early on however pursuit of this was delayed until critical interviews and leads closer inside were complete. The DA would have been aware that records from said therapist would be difficult to obtain unless a true need existed. Seems to me that after review of interviews and associated data, such as the computer discs etc. the data may have led LE to pursue the therapist based on this data. I suggest the combination of collected data gave reason to pursue the therapist. The result, as we know, was that pursuit was correct in a Superior Court Judge's opinion. I think it was obviously a good pursuit by LE.

raisincharlie
03-24-2007, 10:43 AM
I think the prints are going to be a tricky situation. Obviously LE would not dust the entire house so there has to be some sort of logic to the collection of the prints. Think the entry and exit points will be key as well as around the master bedroom and bath.

I'm sure that there are open and shut cases with husbands (or wives) that kill spouses. Obviously not a "crime junkie" but must be difficult to prove with dna when a spouse is very careful. You would expect to find their dna all over the house. Has to be in a very obvious place like under the fingernails for example. Seems as though there would be more circumstantial evidence than anything else.

<snip>




Very interesting comment pack fan. I have wanted to believe this was an argument gone bad but I must admit that I am leaning more the other way toward premeditation thanks to the rumblings of the defenders.

Interesting thought, being "very careful" could be inclusive of some very interesting clothing. :clap:

raisincharlie
03-24-2007, 12:12 PM
In the sense of fairness, seeking theories about the following:

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/1201054/

"The warrant goes on to say there is some "importance of the events around (the) October-November 2003 time frame when the couple got married," but would not say whether it is significant to the case."


The only things we actually know from print about this time period is that Jason and Michelle were married on 10 October 2003. At that time, JY was co-owner of the Arete Way condo with a fellow by the name of Schaad (ryan - can't remember his first name). And that the condo was later titled to JY in December.

Without reading much into this, is it possible that Mr. Schaad was none too pleased about giving up his half ownership to this condo ? Any thoughts about this character ?


ETA - profiling of JY ?

nanandjim
03-24-2007, 12:15 PM
I think that the situation that forced Michelle to a professional was one of two things. Either Jason was telling Michelle that she was out of her mind, exaggerating and/or being paranoid about things that were happening (affairs, accidents, searches on the computer) -- or -- Jason was making overt or covert threats to Michelle and also becoming more and more aggressive towards her. Either way, I think that Michelle discussed it with her mother.

I am leaning towards Michelle doing a reality check against a professional to make sure that her reactions to certain situations were normal. What if Jason were doing suspicious searches on the Internet (like Scott Peterson and his tidal searches or Justin Barber and his gunshot wound searches), making ominous comments/threats, being secretive, doing little things to scare her saying that he was just kidding, etc.? Jason could have been playing real mind games with Michelle.

I think that Michelle's gut told her that something wasn't right. I think that she discussed it with her mother and then discussed it with a professional. I bet that her mother told the police everything that Michelle had said, to include information about Michelle seeing a psychologist.

It's more than apparent what would cause the MIL not to like Jason. It had to be that Michelle told her the things that Jason did and said. There would be no other reason for Michelle's mother to have ill will towards her SIL.

jilly
03-24-2007, 01:46 PM
I wanted to have another look at the article about getting the therapist's records, so here it is for anyone else interested.

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/1211049/

Quote:

Under North Carolina law, the state can ask a therapist to turn over records and answer questions about therapy sessions if "the disclosure is necessary to a proper administration of justice."

"We have someone who died a violent death, and it appears she sought counseling shortly before that time," Wake County District Attorney Colon Willoughby said. "The closeness in time to her death heightened our interest and we thought it would perhaps provide insights."

Stephens questioned Sargent in his chambers and decided that what she knows is important to the case.

"We felt like we could leave no stone unturned, and this is something that might provide us some insights into who the perpetrator was," Willoughby said.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

I'm sure happy that Michelle went to a therapist. It's obvious to me that Michelle poured her heart out about problems with JY otherwise, I don't think the Judge would have granted the order. Wish we knew what the Therapist added in Chambers and how many sessions Michelle had with her.

nanandjim
03-24-2007, 02:12 PM
I'm sure happy that Michelle went to a therapist....
The article that you posted says, "Psychologist Michael Teague, who is not involved in the Young case, says confidentiality is paramount for therapists. He says, however, there are rare exceptions.

"I would imagine that the client would have wanted this to come out given the subsequent set of events," Teague said. "I think in this case, it is appropriate when you see a situation like this."

I assume that he is referring to Michelle when he says that he imagines tha the client would have wanted this to come out. I also wonder what it is that is so important to be revealed. You know that it must have a direct link to the murder.

scandi
03-24-2007, 02:12 PM
Great posts you guys ;}

Jilly, as to how many sessions she had I think we have to look at the word " . .she sought counseling shortly before that time . ." from your link above. It doesn't mention 'sessions', and I think shortly could be a week or two, don't you? Maybe days. She might have only had a one hour session with an appt made to come back for follow up.

Charlie, are you thinking of one of those disposable suits? If it was premeditated that far ahead, and the plan was to strangle her, I think he would expect Cassidy to sleep through that, as it would be pretty silent. I don't think he had any idea how hard it is to strangle someone from what I've read, so Cassidy waking and seeing or hearing enough that happened to talk about daddy did it on the 911 tape was a fluke for him!

That then brings us to wonder if he disposed of his paper suit, and Cassidy had blood on her clothing, did he remember to take it with him when he left, or did he really leave something bloody of hers in the bathroom as the insiders have suggested. We have talked about this before, and your thought was to find out if she was wearing the same clothing when they found her as she had the night before.

I've thought a lot about that. It is one of those things we won't know unless there is a leak. Fat chance, right? lol If socks were left behind, LE would surely take them, right? Even if they were thrown in the hamper. Wouldn't that be something if they missed them. What kind of problems would that cause at trial?

Scandi

scandi
03-24-2007, 02:28 PM
"I would imagine that the client would have wanted this to come out given the subsequent set of events,"

'What the client would have wanted to come out . .' could be the actual threat he could have made on her life.

Subsequent events could be:

a} Michelle learning about the MM affair, the last straw
b} Argument on phone w/JY, maybe saying she was going to call MM
c} She calls MM and talks till midnight and he can't get through to either party
d} Return to house
e} Murder


Someone mentioned the condo. I read at CTV that Michelle had at one point walked in on him when he was with someone else. Could it have been at the condo around the time they were married? That is if it is true.

Scandi

jilly
03-24-2007, 02:39 PM
The article that you posted says, "Psychologist Michael Teague, who is not involved in the Young case, says confidentiality is paramount for therapists. He says, however, there are rare exceptions.

"I would imagine that the client would have wanted this to come out given the subsequent set of events," Teague said. "I think in this case, it is appropriate when you see a situation like this."

I assume that he is referring to Michelle when he says that he imagines tha the client would have wanted this to come out. I also wonder what it is that is so important to be revealed. You know that it must have a direct link to the murder.

No I don't know that it must have a direct link to the murder. I think this other psychologist is just speaking in general terms. In other words, the deceased would want LE to go through her life with a fine tooth comb.

I'm still not convinced that there was something so important like a threat. LE figures JY murdered his wife. They're trying to put a profile of this guy and looking for motive and who better to find out about JY than from Michelle herself. I think they may have got a lot of information about him - like someone said, Michelle is able to speak from the grave. The DA himself said, ""We felt like we could leave no stone unturned, and this is something that might provide us some insights into who the perpetrator was".

Utopia
03-24-2007, 02:42 PM
This is the article from the News & Observer which is a little more specific.

http://www.newsobserver.com/1413/story/546207.html

(this link seems to be a bit finicky, if it doesn't work, you can also search from www.newsobserver.com (http://www.newsobserver.com) for a different story on the MY case and then select this one from the related stories)


Excerpt:
“Conversations between a therapist and patient are considered confidential unless a judge orders the therapist to divulge information, said Judy Hohlfeldt of the N.C. Board of Licensed Professional Counselors.
Exceptions occur if a patient speaks of abusing a child or sharing homicidal or suicidal thoughts, said Louise Glenn, a Durham professional counselor.”
If anyone wants to do a little more digging, here are some more links:

North Carolina Board of Licensed Professional Counselors http://www.ncblpc.org/law.html

Licensure Law Packet (also linked from above site):
http://www.ncblpc.org/forms/Licensure%20Law%20and%20General%20Satutes%200806.p df

American Counseling Association:
http://www.counseling.org/Home/Faq.aspx

From the “frequently asked questions” section (FAQ) of the ACA
Is everything I say confidential?

All members of the American Counseling Association subscribe to the Code of Ethics and Standards of Practice which require counselors to protect the confidentiality of their communications with clients. Most state licensure laws also protect client confidentiality. As a client, you are guaranteed the protection of confidentiality within the boundaries of the client/counselor relationship. Any disclosure will be made with your full written, informed consent and will be limited to a specific period of time. The only limitations to confidentiality occur when a counselor feels that there is clear and imminent danger to you or to others, or when legal requirements demand that confidential information be disclosed such as a court case. Whenever possible, you will be informed before confidential information is revealed.
ACA Code of Ethics link available in download section (bottom right corner)



With regard to the 31/2 lag of time before documents were officially sought by the court, I don't think this is unreasonable. I imagine some hoops had to be jumped through. Also, as to the number of sessions, I'm not sure what its like elsewhere but I know the EAP program through my work, and others that I know of, usually only provide short term counseling of 4-6 sessions. If more is required they refer you on and you would then take responsibility for payment. I would guess the sessions would be booked either once per week or once every other week.


Hope this is useful.
Utopia

scandi
03-24-2007, 02:50 PM
Scandi,

You asked if that was gobbledegook that you read about JY being a felon. If you are referring to the post by someone named Lou Malone at CTV, I believe that post was made in error. I went and looked at all his other posts and they were in a forum call the McGuire Murder. I believe the victim in that case may have also been named Michelle.

Hope you're doing well!!

Hi Whimsigal, I read that short thread, and actually laughed after reading the last post. Lou must have read what was said about it being the wrong case but came back and embellished on it a bit. Was there a Michelle in that case too?

I thought that was the short thread that dealt with a gun.

Scandi

jilly
03-24-2007, 02:56 PM
Scandi - I think you may be right about limited sessions with this therapist. :( We've read that JY knew she was going to a therapist but didn't know what was said. This could have been what set him off. Some of these guys get paranoid with even the mention of a psychologist/psychiatrist. Things were closing in on him and with her seeing a psychologist he had lost total control?

Here's a thought though.....if JY had threatened to kill Michelle and he knows she's seeing a therapist, do you think he still would have killed her?

jilly
03-24-2007, 03:24 PM
Hi Utopia.:)

Thanks for all that information. After reading most of it, it seems to pertain to a client whilst s/he is alive. I couldn't find any mention of therapist/client privilege when the client ends up dead which I believe could have a bearing on the privilege.

I'll have to do some googling for case authority.

Also interesting in your post - "The only limitations to confidentiality occur when a counselor feels that there is clear and imminent danger to you or to others, or when legal requirements demand that confidential information be disclosed such as a court case. Whenever possible, you will be informed before confidential information is revealed."

This makes me think that the therapist did not think Michelle was in any danger otherwise she would have had to report it.

scandi
03-24-2007, 03:35 PM
Yes, I think so Jilly, but think he truely planned it, to strangle her and to wear a paper outfit he could dispose of. One thing that tells me it was premeditated was when strangling didn't work he didn't stop. He proceeded to beat her to death. Wonder if he had access to a suit from Chart-one?

Like we learned in the SP case, Dr Albow pointed out that in spousal murders, removing the threat is what drives the murder to occur. Whoever killed her wanted her dead.

I still don't know if she died right away when he thought she was gone. She bled so much. How long would it take to deliver 30 some blows to her head? 5 min, maybe 10 from the time he walked in the room. Just guessing.

scandi
03-24-2007, 03:38 PM
Hi Utopia.:)

Thanks for all that information. After reading most of it, it seems to pertain to a client whilst s/he is alive. I couldn't find any mention of therapist/client privilege when the client ends up dead which I believe could have a bearing on the privilege.

I'll have to do some googling for case authority.

Also interesting in your post - "The only limitations to confidentiality occur when a counselor feels that there is clear and imminent danger to you or to others, or when legal requirements demand that confidential information be disclosed such as a court case. Whenever possible, you will be informed before confidential information is revealed."

This makes me think that the therapist did not think Michelle was in any danger otherwise she would have had to report it.

Maybe she did report it after getting an attorney who would have petitioned the court for her to break that patient/Dr privledge. We just don't know yet.

nanandjim
03-24-2007, 04:35 PM
No I don't know that it must have a direct link to the murder...
I didn't mean you. Perhaps, I should have stated I. :) I am under the impression that it is rare for a judge to grant access to any patient's files, dead or alive. I think that the sessions must contain something that is directly pertinent to the crime. I think that Michelle mentioned something, whether it be her fears or something Jason was doing or saying, that would fit into Jason committing the crime.

I wonder if the sessions were tape recorded. I would think that would be better than just looking into her file.

chicoliving
03-24-2007, 05:22 PM
I wonder if the sessions were tape recorded. I would think that would be better than just looking into her file.

I wondered the same. I also wonder if Michelle went into detail about the car accident from her POV. It seems the loss of a baby would be something to talk with a Dr. about. I'd think that talking about stressful life incidents would be natural when talking with someone professionally no matter what your problem was that brought you there.

Utopia
03-25-2007, 01:48 AM
There was an interesting post on CTV tonight by a poster named Purple but nobody commented on it. I am not registered there and don't want to be, but I also don't want to steal his/her post. I thought it would be interesting to have it shared here - so Purple, if you are out there or someone that knows Purple, it was about an entry he/she came across on a website called "baby Thomas" by a Michelle Young. Can anyone help?

Utopia

strach304
03-25-2007, 02:14 AM
Hey Chico, glad to see your thoughts on this case. :dance: Remebering your posts from the Laci case.

I have a new thought I wanna try out that I haven't seen speculated on but lets keep in mind info gleaned from insiders on the other board may not be accurate, ok? When we got the info on the therapist right before that was the trip to Ca. so we know from warrants LE wanted those discs from that and discs from around the 2003 era. RC, do you remember if they were specific about if they were discs from the wedding or did we just infer that from the time frame? I'm wondering about a trip along with a possible accident that may have occurred in that time frame?

With coincidence upon coincidence and some suspicion also with the car accident it wouldn't surprise me to find similarities there too. I know it's generally believed that Jason took family on that Ca. trip and that's something Michelle herself may have thought and told others but found out differently or there was more to it somehow that she became aware of later. I have to go back to my first instinct in this case where it was reported the husband was out of town and the other stuff first released and it sounded very contrived to me. Another accident and trip in 2003 as a way of not going through with the marriage but he wouldn't be to blame and was away? Possibly a boating or swimming mishap we don't know about on a honeymoon trip together? Then there's the thought of LE comparing picture discs from both trips looking for the same person in pics that Jason may have associated with both times with nefarious intentions that they want to tie him to.

I know my imagination is a little wild at times but I do still believe that Scott Peterson had thought of and tried several ways of getting rid of Laci long before he actually did it. In ways that would look accidental or he would be out of town and in the clear and then when those failed he became desperate as her due date was near and so he made many mistakes that got him caught. Perhaps Michelle forced Jason's hand with simply the threat of divorce just like a resented forced marriage and this is how he chooses to deal with such matters. IMO to do something like that takes a pretty sick mind in the first place. If he was all about people's perceptions of him like another smooth operator we're famliar with, wouldn't the same thought processes apply? As for wanting his freedom and having to raise Cassidy, I'll believe that when I see it. It's been stated that his sister wants children and being suspicious of him all along, I don't doubt again he has her for now for more than appearance sake. All imo if he did this.

SueY
03-25-2007, 02:15 AM
There was an interesting post on CTV tonight by a poster named Purple but nobody commented on it. I am not registered there and don't want to be, but I also don't want to steal his/her post. I thought it would be interesting to have it shared here - so Purple, if you are out there or someone that knows Purple, it was about an entry he/she came across on a website called "baby Thomas" by a Michelle Young. Can anyone help?
UtopiaI'm not Purple (or green), Utopia, but I think this is what you are looking for:
http://www.babythomas.co.uk/guestbook7.html
There's a post there from a Michelle Young, 07 March 2006.
"My baby was stillborn at 20wks and 2 days. Reading this has helped a great deal."
I don't know if it's "the" Michelle Young.

strach304
03-25-2007, 02:18 AM
There was an interesting post on CTV tonight by a poster named Purple but nobody commented on it. I am not registered there and don't want to be, but I also don't want to steal his/her post. I thought it would be interesting to have it shared here - so Purple, if you are out there or someone that knows Purple, it was about an entry he/she came across on a website called "baby Thomas" by a Michelle Young. Can anyone help?

Utopia

I saw that earlier but did you notice it was a stillbirth and sent in on March 7, 2006? I looked at it and thought it was a strange coincidence but unless there's another we don't know about or the date is off I don't see how it could be her.

Utopia
03-25-2007, 03:58 AM
I saw that earlier but did you notice it was a stillbirth and sent in on March 7, 2006? I looked at it and thought it was a strange coincidence but unless there's another we don't know about or the date is off I don't see how it could be her.

Thank you Strach and Sue (whatever colour you are:D)

No wonder no one responded! I thought the post just got lost in that very long argument about spontaneous vs therapeutic vs abortion vs miscarriage...never mind. I think I must have looked at it and misread May instead of March, probably because I was thinking of May as being when the accident happened.

My thought was that if it was indeed her posting that message between the time she lost her baby and the murder (and there was a away to prove it was by identifying the IP address), it might show something about her state of mind during that time. I wonder if she did belong to any online groups or seek out support online somehow - such as this MY did, if it could be detected on the confiscated computer.

Thanks for your help.:)

Taximom
03-25-2007, 08:37 AM
Interesting article about NC Senate Bill 295 making it a capital offense to kill a pregnant woman:

http://deathwatch.wordpress.com/

strach304
03-25-2007, 08:54 AM
Interesting indeed. Doesn't give a date that I could find for when it would be passed if it is.

Taximom
03-25-2007, 09:53 AM
Interesting indeed. Doesn't give a date that I could find for when it would be passed if it is.

According to Brock's website, the bill has been referred to the Judiciary committee. (yawn) I wonder how long it will take. (I just checked and the Jud. comm. only meets Tuesdays/Thursdays at 10:00 a.m.)

Here's Brock's link. He's certainly a busy guy!
http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/gascripts/members/reports/introducedBills.pl?nUserID=104&Chamber=S

scandi
03-25-2007, 10:39 AM
I hope they do pass the bill, but unless they make it retroactive it won't affect the charge on Michelle's killer ;{

That is a real coincidence about the posting on the Thomas site, but is a few months too early to be our Michelle I think.

I have taken to heart one of Charlie's great ideas on the case, that the accident was just that, but it was caused by JY's negligent driving. The clown and practical joker, I think he was horsing around driving that car and if he did something stupid like take his eyes off the road to turn around or take both hands off the wheel, he lost control and veered off down that 100' embankment.

I wanted to post that at CTV last night but didn't as it wasn't my idea, but think it could be an important clue as to what was going on in the lives of this couple.IF Michelle lost the baby as the result of her belly being bumped hard in the accident and JY did not show the same measure of grief or simply passed it off, not accepting his negligence as the reason for losing their baby, Michelle would resent that.

If you take that plus everything else we've learned about him not being a good husband, plus add in whatever we don't know about yet :rolleyes: , I think it shows a time frame of say 5 months before her death when everything between them started to go downhill.


Stratch, we know he had affairs, heard it said enough by insiders, and since he somewhat acquessed to marrying her due to the advent of Cassidy, I'm starting to put faith in the rumor that in 2003 she caught him in bed with someone. And I think it was at the condo he owned with his buddy. It just seems to fit and makes sense. Remember good 'ole Scott P was caught by Laci right after they were married.

MEN! Gees :p

Utopia
03-25-2007, 11:19 AM
[quote=scandi;1398606] (snipped)
"I think it shows a time frame of say 5 months before her death when everything between them started to go downhill"

I totally agree Scandi - that's why the time frame between Michelle's second pregnancy and her death is so crucial, and I suspect there will be quite a focus on it. It's also why that "Baby Thomas" post peaked my curiosity about whether or not MY may have reached out over the internet in some way, and if that could be explored as to what she was feeling, thinking and experiencing during that time, and further what it might contribute to the investigation into her murder. No, that particular message was obviously not hers, but it might very well have been a few months later. There has been much speculation about what she may or may not have shared with friends and family but its amazing what people will share with strangers on the internet.

Utopia

philamena
03-25-2007, 02:09 PM
When is there going to be an arrest in this case? Surely LE isn't still waiting for DNA and other forensics?

jilly
03-25-2007, 02:41 PM
When is there going to be an arrest in this case? Surely LE isn't still waiting for DNA and other forensics?

I wouldn't think they'd still be waiting. I would have thought this case would have received priority.

There was one 'insider' at CTV that an arrest would be made at the end of the month. I'm kind of hanging on that.

I will say that LE has had to start from scratch on this case. JY clammed up immediately. I'm kind of ticked off that LE did not get to present him with the news that his wife had been murdered. As well as looking at his demeanor, they would have caught him AND his family right off guard and could have done some questioning.

Thing is, nobody knew JY was going to be in Bevard aside from JY & his parents. I understand it was JYs friends who contacted the parents and told him to get a lawyer because of the questions LE were asking. These friends must have kept it to themselves that they were going to phone the parents, I think. JY lucked out because of it.

I think the cops were pizzed about that too from the sounds of the call they made to JY during his ride back to Raleigh.

scandi
03-25-2007, 03:34 PM
Hi Utopia, Interesting they are discussing the date of the accident right now at CTV. A link states it happened in 2005, not 2006. Have we encounteresd this discrepancy before?

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/1063178/

panthera
03-25-2007, 04:33 PM
Interesting article about NC Senate Bill 295 making it a capital offense to kill a pregnant woman:

http://deathwatch.wordpress.com/
Yes, they're finally getting around to passing some good legislation around here but, unfortunately, it wouldn't affect Michelle's case. I think it will pass and become law though! :)

panthera
03-25-2007, 04:34 PM
When is there going to be an arrest in this case? Surely LE isn't still waiting for DNA and other forensics?
There hasn't been anything in the news lately but I'd think those lab results would've come back weeks ago. :confused:

Utopia
03-25-2007, 05:46 PM
Hmmm, that's interesting. I'm not sure. I'll check other reports as well as Scout's timeline. Does that mean she was pregnant with the baby she lost then as well? That would certainly make much more sense than losing the baby one week and getting pregnant again within a couple of weeks later. I'll see what I can find out.

Utopia


Hi Utopia, Interesting they are discussing the date of the accident right now at CTV. A link states it happened in 2005, not 2006. Have we encounteresd this discrepancy before?

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/1063178/

scandi
03-25-2007, 06:56 PM
Yea Utopia, I thought there was something a bit off about that. They just posted that Amanda Lamb made an error in her article, so it was in May of 2006.

A poster has just posted there they found trace amounts of blook in JY's car on the floor mats, door and steering wheel I believe. Amazing we have never heard this before, and I don't know if this poster is an insider - AE. Top part of page 6 on today's daily forum.

It would make one wonder why they didn't arrest him, but maybe the tests were inconclusive for some reason, or they still needed to have something else. Don't you think that would put him at the scene. In many Forensic Files cases on TV they have evidence you would think would nail the guy, but need a string of telling evicence to make it a dead set case the prosecution can win.

LOLOLOL I feel like a little narc, running back and forth with info! :D Oh, well!

strach304
03-25-2007, 07:05 PM
Scandi, yes we had that date thing cleared up back in the beginning of this case. Was supposed to be an error by the reporter and several insiders not sure of the exact date in May were sure it was 2006.

Also the info that unknown fingerprints found could imo be a very good explanation for a holdup of an arrest no matter who that turns out to be for several reasons depending on where those prints were found. Accomplices for instance, the SODDI defense especially in light of the tooth found by the Youngs.

ETA: Sorry Scandi, I see you found the info on the date thing. As I recall there was also problems with the actual day in May, being either the beginning or end of May. Almost 3 weeks. Also that poster on ctv talking about blood is asking what if it was found in those places, not that it was if I read correctly. Usual imo for that poster.

Barney Fife
03-25-2007, 07:17 PM
Yea Utopia, I thought there was something a bit off about that. They just posted that Amanda Lamb made an error in her article, so it was in May of 2006.

A poster has just posted there they found trace amounts of blook in JY's car on the floor mats, door and steering wheel I believe. Amazing we have never heard this before, and I don't know if this poster is an insider - AE. Top part of page 6 on today's daily forum.

It would make one wonder why they didn't arrest him, but maybe the tests were inconclusive for some reason, or they still needed to have something else. Don't you think that would put him at the scene. In many Forensic Files cases on TV they have evidence you would think would nail the guy, but need a string of telling evicence to make it a dead set case the prosecution can win.

LOLOLOL I feel like a little narc, running back and forth with info! :D Oh, well!

That poster has ZERO inside information and is basically a TROLL on CTV. She ? is very much pro-JY and has a very antagonistic style.

strach304
03-25-2007, 07:22 PM
Scandi, the latest theory I see coming down the pike because imo that's what's beeen hinted at for a few days now is Michelle's father. Based simply on suspicion that's what Michelle was seeing a therapist for. It started here imo by one poster recently banned, trails back to JTF's statement about the answer being in NY. Michelle was said to have been in NY in July, a rift with her father and similar indications also from Meredith on her MySpace page. As of today I saw someone post another little hint about someone who didn't want MY and JY to be married who was not at the wedding. We know it's been stated her father wasn't. All imo. so be ready.

ETA: Also the sex therapist questions that about Michelle presented here and the past questions about her being possibly sexually abused as a child by said banned poster. Hi'ya BF. Any news on those fingerprints?

Taximom
03-25-2007, 07:26 PM
Scandi, the latest theory I see coming down the pike because imo that's what's beeen hinted at for a few days now is Michelle's father. Based simply on suspicion that's what Michelle was seeing a therapist for. It started here imo by one poster recently banned, trails back to JTF's statement about the answer being in NY. Michelle was said to have been in NY in July, a rift with her father and similar indications also from Meredith on her MySpace page. As of today I saw someone post another little hint about someone who didn't want MY and JY to be married who was not at the wedding. We know it's been stated her father wasn't. All imo. so be ready.

This case just keeps reminding me of all the gobbledy-gook in the Laci Peterson case. It's amazing. :rolleyes:

strach304
03-25-2007, 07:30 PM
This case just keeps reminding me of all the gobbledy-gook in the Laci Peterson case. It's amazing. :rolleyes:

You are so right about that. The same kind of stuff caused anyone who knew Laci to stop reading the boards and commenting too.

Barney Fife
03-25-2007, 07:38 PM
Scandi, the latest theory I see coming down the pike because imo that's what's beeen hinted at for a few days now is Michelle's father. Based simply on suspicion that's what Michelle was seeing a therapist for. It started here imo by one poster recently banned, trails back to JTF's statement about the answer being in NY. Michelle was said to have been in NY in July, a rift with her father and similar indications also from Meredith on her MySpace page. As of today I saw someone post another little hint about someone who didn't want MY and JY to be married who was not at the wedding. We know it's been stated her father wasn't. All imo. so be ready.

ETA: Also the sex therapist questions that about Michelle presented here and the past questions about her being possibly sexually abused as a child by said banned poster. Hi'ya BF. Any news on those fingerprints?


My contact says that the reason MY and her father have been somewhat 'estranged' was due to his 2nd wife. Apparently, she did not like the Fisher girls and wanted her husband to have little contact. Her nic was "Step Monster".

MY was NOT abused in any way by her Father.

Utopia
03-25-2007, 08:24 PM
Scandi,

Okay, I just spent WAY too much time combing through posts on the date of the car accident. There was absolutely lots of confusion about 2005 vs. 2006, but in my opinion there is far too many posts that start with "according to another board" or "an insider said". Several of the media links are no longer working so the only media links I could find were the Amanda Lamb report on November 15th stating May 29th, 2005 for the accident - with no mention of a pregnancy at the time, and reference to a Greta show on November 16th that claimed she was pregnant at the time of the accident. The rest as far as I can tell have come from "insider" information. Personally, I'm not convinced either way. The media does make mistakes and I don't trust insider information. I think its really important that posters be clear about where information is coming from and try to provide links when possible.

I still think 2005 makes a lot more sense at least for the pregnancy, and if its true that she was pregnant at the time of the accident then it also makes sense that the accident was then as well.

JMO:twocents:

Yea Utopia, I thought there was something a bit off about that. They just posted that Amanda Lamb made an error in her article, so it was in May of 2006.

A poster has just posted there they found trace amounts of blook in JY's car on the floor mats, door and steering wheel I believe. Amazing we have never heard this before, and I don't know if this poster is an insider - AE. Top part of page 6 on today's daily forum.

It would make one wonder why they didn't arrest him, but maybe the tests were inconclusive for some reason, or they still needed to have something else. Don't you think that would put him at the scene. In many Forensic Files cases on TV they have evidence you would think would nail the guy, but need a string of telling evicence to make it a dead set case the prosecution can win.

LOLOLOL I feel like a little narc, running back and forth with info! :D Oh, well!

jilly
03-25-2007, 08:27 PM
Well, if their relationship was somewhat extranged then Michelle & her father must have come together somehow because it was the father who arranged for them to get the '04 explorer wasn't it?

I would guess her father is taking this murder very hard.

Utopia
03-25-2007, 08:44 PM
What if the insider who "corrected" the accident date from 2005 to 2006 had a motive to do so, i.e. to separate pregnancy and car accident by a year. I could be way off, just asking. Of course, this is not how the inference was taken, we all assumed that if accident occurred in 2006, then so did 2nd pregnancy. I think from what info we have that she was pregnant at time of accident and it was likely the reason she lost the baby, even if there is no way to prove it - but I also think its more likely that it happened in 2005 not 2006 - but its all speculation, I think I'll await the facts.

If anyone finds any other media links to the dates of the car accident, pregnancy or "therapeutic abortion" (she carefully puts in quotes), it would be great if they could be linked again.

Thanks, Utopia

ETA: I don't suppose the original accident report is accessible somehow?

Scandi,

Okay, I just spent WAY too much time combing through posts on the date of the car accident. There was absolutely lots of confusion about 2005 vs. 2006, but in my opinion there is far too many posts that start with "according to another board" or "an insider said". Several of the media links are no longer working so the only media links I could find were the Amanda Lamb report on November 15th stating May 29th, 2005 for the accident - with no mention of a pregnancy at the time, and reference to a Greta show on November 16th that claimed she was pregnant at the time of the accident. The rest as far as I can tell have come from "insider" information. Personally, I'm not convinced either way. The media does make mistakes and I don't trust insider information. I think its really important that posters be clear about where information is coming from and try to provide links when possible.

I still think 2005 makes a lot more sense at least for the pregnancy, and if its true that she was pregnant at the time of the accident then it also makes sense that the accident was then as well.

JMO:twocents:

Barney Fife
03-25-2007, 09:09 PM
Well, if their relationship was somewhat estranged then Michelle & her father must have come together somehow because it was the father who arranged for them to get the '04 explorer wasn't it?

I would guess her father is taking this murder very hard.

Estranged was the wrong word. The Step Mother was the problem.

5bigfish5
03-25-2007, 09:11 PM
My contact says that the reason MY and her father have been somewhat 'estranged' was due to his 2nd wife. Apparently, she did not like the Fisher girls and wanted her husband to have little contact. Her nic was "Step Monster".

MY was NOT abused in any way by her Father.

Thanks Barney,

I suspected it was "much ado about nothing".

5bigfish5

jilly
03-25-2007, 10:06 PM
Estranged was the wrong word. The Step Mother was the problem.

Thanks Barney. Do you know if they've scaled back the investigation on this case at all?

strach304
03-25-2007, 11:45 PM
My contact says that the reason MY and her father have been somewhat 'estranged' was due to his 2nd wife. Apparently, she did not like the Fisher girls and wanted her husband to have little contact. Her nic was "Step Monster".

MY was NOT abused in any way by her Father.

Thanks, didn't think so and it was made clear by several people who posted early on that they had reconciled, etc. Being that he lives far away from NC. also gives me reason to believe he may not have been able to attend that ceremony for other reasons imo. Also puts him very far away from the crime scene but facts haven't stopped certain speculation so far. :doh:

raisincharlie
03-26-2007, 09:26 AM
What if the insider who "corrected" the accident date from 2005 to 2006 had a motive to do so, i.e. to separate pregnancy and car accident by a year. I could be way off, just asking. Of course, this is not how the inference was taken, we all assumed that if accident occurred in 2006, then so did 2nd pregnancy. I think from what info we have that she was pregnant at time of accident and it was likely the reason she lost the baby, even if there is no way to prove it - but I also think its more likely that it happened in 2005 not 2006 - but its all speculation, I think I'll await the facts.

If anyone finds any other media links to the dates of the car accident, pregnancy or "therapeutic abortion" (she carefully puts in quotes), it would be great if they could be linked again.

Thanks, Utopia

ETA: I don't suppose the original accident report is accessible somehow?

Utopia,

Hope your studies are going well ! The above is interesting about the poster having a reason to change the year for this accident. As I recall this same poster was very adament that the car accident had absolutely nothing to do with the loss of the baby. I find that hard to believe given all the other claims made along with it. There seems to be a contradiction there if one thinks about it. They want you to believe the accident happened without consequence. I suppose it is possible but then again, the list of coincidences in this case is becoming longer and longer. I will go back and look through the links as I do not believe Amanda Lamb was the only one to report 2005 as the year, keep in mind that this poster has also been very accusatory of Ms. Lamb as well - second agenda.


Scandi,

No I was not thinking of a paper suit. Firm believer here in KISS. I was thinking along the lines of the basics such as gloves and a mask. The reference to a single hair found on Michelle's hand as referenced in the AR made me think about this. Just my way of thinking, if the murderer's head was exposed, there may been more hair. Michelle fought back if the scratches on her neck were made by her - hair pulling would be automatic in my way of thinking.

raisincharlie
03-26-2007, 11:02 AM
Utopia,

Having checked the property tax statements from Wake County note that the taxes paid:

Mitsuibishi - 1/24/06
Explorer - 9/15/06

This indicates the Mitsuibishi was still registered as of January 2006, the Explorer was recently paid in 2006 as well - this tends to indicate that the accident did indeed occur in May of 2006 and the Explorer was purchased in 2006.

That should refine the issue. The accident most likely occurred in May (29th) 2006.

Utopia
03-26-2007, 11:24 AM
Thanks RC, you are a fine detective! Okay, I'll accept that the accident was most likely May 06. I did find transcripts from a Nancy Grace show and a Jan 22nd 07 Greta show that seem to be referring to the accident as happening in 2006 as well.

Was the Explorer purchased before or after May 06? If before, and the accident occurred in May 06, then it wasn't purchased specifically to replace the Mitsuibishi. Sorry this might be a stupid question given the info you provided re taxes but I'm assuming the tax statement dates have nothing to do with purchase dates. I suppose its possible that even if the accident occurred in 2005, they could have kept the Mitsuibishi in spite of the water damage.

Sorry, don't mean to flog a dead horse, I'll just accept for now that the accident was probably in 2006.

ETA: Studies would be going much better if I could get some self discipline and stay off this board! Hubby coming for a visit in less than two weeks and I have much to accomplish before then.

Utopia,

Having checked the property tax statements from Wake County note that the taxes paid:

Mitsuibishi - 1/24/06
Explorer - 9/15/06

This indicates the Mitsuibishi was still registered as of January 2006, the Explorer was recently paid in 2006 as well - this tends to indicate that the accident did indeed occur in May of 2006 and the Explorer was purchased in 2006.

That should refine the issue. The accident most likely occurred in May (29th) 2006.

raisincharlie
03-26-2007, 12:07 PM
Thanks RC, you are a fine detective! Okay, I'll accept that the accident was most likely May 06. I did find transcripts from a Nancy Grace show and a Jan 22nd 07 Greta show that seem to be referring to the accident as happening in 2006 as well.

Was the Explorer purchased before or after May 06? If before, and the accident occurred in May 06, then it wasn't purchased specifically to replace the Mitsuibishi. Sorry this might be a stupid question given the info you provided re taxes but I'm assuming the tax statement dates have nothing to do with purchase dates. I suppose its possible that even if the accident occurred in 2005, they could have kept the Mitsuibishi in spite of the water damage.

Sorry, don't mean to flog a dead horse, I'll just accept for now that the accident was probably in 2006.

ETA: Studies would be going much better if I could get some self discipline and stay off this board! Hubby coming for a visit in less than two weeks and I have much to accomplish before then.

No the tax dates would have nothing to do with purchase dates. As to the Mitsuibishi - motors and water don't mix well, very costly to replace but I suspct there was more than just water damage. From this I cannot positively state the Mitsuibishi was done in May and the Explorer was the replacement but logic would seem to dictate it as the case.

Niner
03-26-2007, 12:53 PM
okay... trying to catch up here... I have 'skipped' threads 8 thru 13... Hopefully I won't miss much, eh??!! LOL!

I do have a question though!!

Charlie - you said: One thing is for certain, the dog bit story in lin with everything else and claiming HY "knows" whose footprint was found...

Footprint??? I guess that must have been mentioned in the threads I missed - can you elaborate on 'where' this footprint was found?? TIA!

and from April 15th - Charlie:
GO Ferrari!!! - YEA!! Go Kimi AND Ferrari!!

And I noticed on the part #14 - that someone mentioned that an arrest will be made by March 31st?? okay... 5 days away!!

Thanks for your answers in advance! Trying really hard to catch up here! :slap:

raisincharlie
03-26-2007, 02:30 PM
okay... trying to catch up here... I have 'skipped' threads 8 thru 13... Hopefully I won't miss much, eh??!! LOL!

I do have a question though!!

Charlie - you said: One thing is for certain, the dog bit story in lin with everything else and claiming HY "knows" whose footprint was found...

Footprint??? I guess that must have been mentioned in the threads I missed - can you elaborate on 'where' this footprint was found?? TIA!

and from April 15th - Charlie:
GO Ferrari!!! - YEA!! Go Kimi AND Ferrari!!

And I noticed on the part #14 - that someone mentioned that an arrest will be made by March 31st?? okay... 5 days away!!

Thanks for your answers in advance! Trying really hard to catch up here! :slap:

Niner,

I'm afraid you have picked up on a series of what can only be termed rumor at this point. A supposed "insider" claims there was a bloody foot print that did not belong to JY or Cassidy somewhere in the crime scene. This has no official status, strictly rumor. Another "insider" claimed there were dog bite victims in the ER the night of the murder and that yes there was a foot print and that yes JY knew who it belonged to. Again, this is all rumor and at this point there is no way to tell what is true. Best advice - wait for news reports as I believe certain people are "jerking" chains.

Ferrari Fan aye ?

Check this out - new shell commercial - using the old flat 312 B changing into the F248 I believe. Also in the Totally off Topic Thread part 1 - if you want some free Ferrari collectable stickers check out post 721.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0jrPrjW3Oc

As to Kimi - not totally sold on him but sold on Ferrari - tough act to follow Schumacher but Kimi has one win in hand - should be an interesting season. Yes - GO Ferrari !!!

less0305
03-26-2007, 04:39 PM
No the tax dates would have nothing to do with purchase dates. As to the Mitsuibishi - motors and water don't mix well, very costly to replace but I suspct there was more than just water damage. From this I cannot positively state the Mitsuibishi was done in May and the Explorer was the replacement but logic would seem to dictate it as the case.

True, I bought my car in January of 06 and my taxes came due in April of 06.

FactsareFacts
03-26-2007, 06:09 PM
I hope this is not off topic but I just wanted to say that I love the way this board is run. I have spent several days reading at CTV and there are some really great posters over there but; there are too many petty, argumentative, rude posters. If those posts were removed the MY board would be cut in half over there. It makes me appreciate this place so much even though I don't post alot, I never have to wade thru pages of BS.

I know some of you post over there and I tip my hat to you for your patience. There are a couple posters over there who would not last a day here from what I see. It looks like one of them got the boot today over there though.

So thank you fellow posters and also the moderators here for making this an adult place to discuss this tradgedy respectfully. :clap:

caffeinatd
03-26-2007, 06:33 PM
True, I bought my car in January of 06 and my taxes came due in April of 06.

Auto taxes are generally billed within 3 months of licensing/renewing tags in that county. So, if they bought the car in June, taxes would be billed in Sept. I think you have a few months to pay them without penalty.
I wonder if Jason went to NY with Michelle, and drove the explorder back. Seems like about the right time, and then Michelle and Cassidy would have driven back on their own. JMOO

"Approximately three months after registration takes place, a tax bill will be issued by the Wake County Revenue Department for each vehicle registered. Motor vehicle bills are due on the first day of the fourth month following registration and become delinquent on the first day of the fifth month following registration. Past due accounts are assessed an interest charge of 5% the first month and 3/4 of 1% each month thereafter. Any bill not paid in full by the eight month following registration will result in the enforcement of a "block" to the registration. If this occurs, the NCDMV will not issue a renewal card for the vehicle or allow registration without evidence of payment." from the Wake county tax website
http://www.wakegov.com/tax/vehicles/default.htm

raisincharlie
03-26-2007, 11:53 PM
Thanks for the information Caffinated - the timing does seem to line up in a manner to conclude the Explorer was indeed a replacement and your explanation of how it may have been picked up makes great sense as well.

strach304
03-27-2007, 12:24 AM
When are we going to hear something on this case? I am getting impatient, not necessarily for an arrest but something in the media to highlight it and a statement from LE to the public on the status of the case or something. :confused: Maybe I'm just used to the Laci case where there were many things practically daily. That was the first case that I ever immersed myself in here.

pack_fan
03-27-2007, 12:29 AM
Alright, been thinking and I know that is dangerous.....

I think Jake may be correct that the perp showered after commiting the deed. There was mention of looking for dna in drains and so forth but don't think this would be helpful since JY lived in the home. Obviously he had showered there many times before.

First of all, I suspect that the drops on the explorer are blood if JY is the perp. I had expected to see a bit of blood in the vehicle since Michelle had been so brutally beaten but the shower theory makes sense, thanks Jake!!!!! I suspect that he showered after the fact but took bloody clothes or murder weapon or both and dumped them in the backseat. Obviously tried to wrap them up but those pesky drops just slipped right out. I don't buy that he planned ahead enough to wear scrubs or anything of the nature. I think he was covered in blood and had to shower after the fact. I'm still leaning toward this being pre med but very shortly before. Something to the effect of an arguement or threats of divorce. That counselor is going to play a big role, at least I think that now. The accident and insurance information is strictly coincidental imo.....

philamena
03-27-2007, 12:38 AM
I wouldn't think they'd still be waiting. I would have thought this case would have received priority.

There was one 'insider' at CTV that an arrest would be made at the end of the month. I'm kind of hanging on that.

I will say that LE has had to start from scratch on this case. JY clammed up immediately. I'm kind of ticked off that LE did not get to present him with the news that his wife had been murdered. As well as looking at his demeanor, they would have caught him AND his family right off guard and could have done some questioning.

Thing is, nobody knew JY was going to be in Bevard aside from JY & his parents. I understand it was JYs friends who contacted the parents and told him to get a lawyer because of the questions LE were asking. These friends must have kept it to themselves that they were going to phone the parents, I think. JY lucked out because of it.

I think the cops were pizzed about that too from the sounds of the call they made to JY during his ride back to Raleigh.

jilly,
Thanks so much for the reply. I've been following this case along with you all and I am dumbfounded that there hasn't been an arrest yet. I'm surprised JY hasn't left the country.

pack_fan
03-27-2007, 12:38 AM
When are we going to hear something on this case? I am getting impatient, not necessarily for an arrest but something in the media to highlight it and a statement from LE to the public on the status of the case or something. :confused: Maybe I'm just used to the Laci case where there were many things practically daily. That was the first case that I ever immersed myself in here.


Don't know strach, frustrating for sure. Just hope that there is an end in sight and the perp, whomever it may be, will be punished accordingly for this horrible crime.

I am encouraged by the fact that LE nor the Fishers have been on camera begging for help. I can't speak for LF but I beleive that she would be screaming from the roof tops if LE had not kept her informed and at least feel like they are moving in the right direction. JMO of course, but I think the silence could be more encouraging than if LE was "lost" and hoping the public could provide some insight.

Obviously there has been total crap printed about LE using JY as bait so they can catch the real killer but totally rediculous imo. Every search warrant has been directly related to JY. I think they beleive that JY is the perp but must have a very stong case since I beleive it will be a death penalty case.

pack_fan
03-27-2007, 12:52 AM
Sami (or anyone who knows),

How much would a medical examiner be able to tell from autopsy on an "attempted" strangulation and how much would actually make it to the autopsy report? Reasoning is this. I'm not convinced that the perp was trying to strangle her to kill her. I think he was trying to control her and hold her down. I assume the ME would be able to tell by bruising if the perp uses one hand or two. Seems that one hand would cause markings on the side of the neck where two hands would make more sense for the bruising to be on the front and back of the neck.

I think the perp brought a weapon into the house rather than grabbing something out of the bedroom after failing to strangle Michelle and the "strangulation" marks on the neck will show that it was one hand rather than two. One to hold, one to swing.

scandi
03-27-2007, 01:02 AM
Hi PackFan, Interesting about the idea of the perp tossing a bundle of bloody accoutrements to the crime into the car, and I also could see the drips flying out. They were droplets I think, and don't those have a little tail on them, as opposed to a drop?

Here I go back to that rumor at CTV about blood residue on the floor mats, door and steering wheel. Do you think it strange if this is indeed true it was not mentioned in any document we read? Oh, maybe not, if it was not immediately visible to the eye. Do you think that rumor could be true? Wouldn't that put him at the scene of her death if it was her blood {which the rumor says}.

Maybe it isn't good enough to warrant an arrest if they have no evidence of him leaving the motel room - no cameras caught him, etc.

Scandi

scandi
03-27-2007, 01:09 AM
Sami (or anyone who knows),

How much would a medical examiner be able to tell from autopsy on an "attempted" strangulation and how much would actually make it to the autopsy report? Reasoning is this. I'm not convinced that the perp was trying to strangle her to kill her. I think he was trying to control her and hold her down. I assume the ME would be able to tell by bruising if the perp uses one hand or two. Seems that one hand would cause markings on the side of the neck where two hands would make more sense for the bruising to be on the front and back of the neck.

I think the perp brought a weapon into the house rather than grabbing something out of the bedroom after failing to strangle Michelle and the "strangulation" marks on the neck will show that it was one hand rather than two. One to hold, one to swing.

I don't know lol, but good point. I tried to look at the amount of bruising which would tell the order of the BFInjuries in trying to figure that out.

Wonder what Sami thinks about that attempted strangulation from looking at the AR? His other hand must have been busy to just have her neck by one hand, right? I always thought he held her head down, gripping her neck hard with his right hand and gave her a chop to the lips with his left hand - the wedding ring cutting her lips. It stunned her and she tried to escape, falling to the floor as he reached for the flashlight he had brought upstairs with him.

Scandi

pack_fan
03-27-2007, 01:32 AM
Hi PackFan, Interesting about the idea of the perp tossing a bundle of bloody accoutrements to the crime into the car, and I also could see the drips flying out. They were droplets I think, and don't those have a little tail on them, as opposed to a drop?

Here I go back to that rumor at CTV about blood residue on the floor mats, door and steering wheel. Do you think it strange if this is indeed true it was not mentioned in any document we read? Oh, maybe not, if it was not immediately visible to the eye. Do you think that rumor could be true? Wouldn't that put him at the scene of her death if it was her blood {which the rumor says}.

Maybe it isn't good enough to warrant an arrest if they have no evidence of him leaving the motel room - no cameras caught him, etc.

Scandi

Don't ask me about those tails, I have been corrected before but I have to admit that I didn't pay close enough attention. I feel a reprimand coming on from someone.

You are right that the blood in the vehicle would probably not been mentioned in the warrant since it would not have been visible from the outside unless the door was open. I think the rear door was for some reason since the stain in the rear seat was mentioned. I think that the rear windows would have been tinted and not visable from the outside.

I don't really beleive that rumor scandi. I have to give Jake the nod on this one and go with the showering idea. Although I don't beleive his theories per se, I tend to beleive that he is indeed trying to help JY on this board and to me explains the lack of blood in the car.

I have to admit that I am a bit confused about the strangulation. At this moment, and I am going to change my mind again more than likely, I still think he was trying to hold her down and there was not really an attempt to kill her in this manner but obvious signs that he was holding on for dear life. I was surprised at the minimal damage to the facial area compared to the back of the head. Although it was very brutal, it is almost like he was ashamed to hit her in the face. The busted lip is minimal compared to the damage to the back of the head. I think most of the damage was done so the perp couldn't see her face. I know this sounds awful and I will apologize before hand, the lack of injuries to the face reminds me of a killer with a conscience almost. Hated her very much but wouldn't look her in the eye and didn't go after the unborn child.

strach304
03-27-2007, 08:24 AM
Scandi, on the rumors of blood on the steering wheel, floor mats, etc. I just have to say from the SP case that I don't think the DA's office would have released that SUV if that were true. But it's just a feeling.

Pack Fan, yes you make very good points and we are in agreement on many issues so I'll tell you this. Yes I'm impatient but I think it's because there's no credible info or any news reports to hold us over until that arrest comes. I've always expected this would take awhile for many reasons. The dna being a primary point since Jason's should be there. I've also suggested drain cleaner or bleach could've been run into the tub, sinks, etc. We saw similar things in the SP case done. It is evidence but not a 100% that Jason did it. Michelle's and Jason's blood are expected to be there as well so again small and trace amounts may not prove anything 100% either.

As to premed or bad fight gone bad, I'm still open to both. But yes if the DA wants to pursue the DP on this case you bet that will take longer too I think. If Jason did this by him not speaking to LE that is imo that is the smartest thing he has done so far. Early on someone pointed out what a good law firm he has and they are making LE come up with their theory and then will try to blow holes in it. I'm also aware that he can demand a speedy trial so the DA must be ready. With as many theories as we've come up with for the same info I think that shows there are always going to be more than one way and some unknowns in the end anyway. We saw that also with Laci's case and those are the things these attorneys will be very shrewd about at trial.

jilly
03-27-2007, 12:58 PM
Maybe the blood in the vehicle was his? In which case it's another piece of the puzzle imo.

I can't believe that for such a brutal crime that this case will not be solved & prosecuted successfully.

It couldn't be this easy to get away with murder, could it? If so, then this JY has horseshoes up his butt. There is so much in his favor here.

If he did do it, then I think this is probably the best client that Smith has ever had, to date. JY has obviously thought about other murderers who have been so stupid so as to convict themselves. I wonder how many conversations he had with his buddies about Scott Peterson. As we all know that case was nation-wide.

Right now, I think he planned this. Maybe only for a couple of days and I say that because of him telling his parents on the Thursday nite that he was going to visit them. I would like to know when he booked that hotel.

j2mirish
03-27-2007, 02:56 PM
Man on man do you all have a lot of patience........................I keep coming back and reading--- I cannot believe there has been no arrest, or additional info released.........isnt it going on 5 months.......? I am beginning to think jy may have pulled this off- ( or he didnt do it ) and they have very little to go on---- and its not taking them anywhere-:(

Utopia
03-27-2007, 03:55 PM
snipped...

Right now, I think he planned this. Maybe only for a couple of days and I say that because of him telling his parents on the Thursday nite that he was going to visit them. I would like to know when he booked that hotel.

Jilly,

I don't think knowing when he booked that hotel would be all that helpful in terms of establishing premeditation if he did indeed have a meeting scheduled the next day. If it was premeditated, it could have been planned around that meeting in order to provide an alibi - or it could have been a last minute event. Like you though, if he did do it, I'm leaning toward premeditation.

strach304
03-27-2007, 04:02 PM
Maybe the blood in the vehicle was his? In which case it's another piece of the puzzle imo.

I can't believe that for such a brutal crime that this case will not be solved & prosecuted successfully.

It couldn't be this easy to get away with murder, could it? If so, then this JY has horseshoes up his butt. There is so much in his favor here.

If he did do it, then I think this is probably the best client that Smith has ever had, to date. JY has obviously thought about other murderers who have been so stupid so as to convict themselves. I wonder how many conversations he had with his buddies about Scott Peterson. As we all know that case was nation-wide.

Right now, I think he planned this. Maybe only for a couple of days and I say that because of him telling his parents on the Thursday nite that he was going to visit them. I would like to know when he booked that hotel.

Jilly, In Scandi's post #146 she says it's rumored to be Michelle's blood. I'm glad I found that quick because I didn't remember if that poster said blood or was specific about whose blood. If it was his and he was believed to be injured during the crime or his blood was found at the scene, some kind of connection with the two then I don't think they would have wanted to give it back so easily. Wouldn't they have at least taken the car mats, cut out leather or whatever?

jilly
03-27-2007, 05:05 PM
Jilly,

I don't think knowing when he booked that hotel would be all that helpful in terms of establishing premeditation if he did indeed have a meeting scheduled the next day. If it was premeditated, it could have been planned around that meeting in order to provide an alibi - or it could have been a last minute event. Like you though, if he did do it, I'm leaning toward premeditation.

I see your point Utopia but I'm thinking the hotel is a planned part of the alibi. He didn't have to break up such a short journey with a hotel room imo. He could have driven to the place of the meeting the nite before and had a fresh start for the meeting or he could have headed out at 4am on the morning of the meeting and got there in plenty of time. I think it's a crock that he wanted to get a head start.

I agree, it's not going to prove in a Court that he planned the murder, but in my mind, it will!:crazy: If he booked the hotel the Thursday, (just like he phoned his parents) I think it's very suspicious.

jilly
03-27-2007, 05:30 PM
Jilly, In Scandi's post #146 she says it's rumored to be Michelle's blood. I'm glad I found that quick because I didn't remember if that poster said blood or was specific about whose blood. If it was his and he was believed to be injured during the crime or his blood was found at the scene, some kind of connection with the two then I don't think they would have wanted to give it back so easily. Wouldn't they have at least taken the car mats, cut out leather or whatever?

Yikes Strach - I immediately thought - how did I miss that? I re read Scandi's post and I think she's responding to PacFan's speculation (#142). Or is there something else I've missed? I don't think we even know if it's blood or not, do we? That's what I should have said in my previous post - maybe it was JYs blood if it was blood? lol. We know pretty much nothing.

If it was blood - I'm not so sure that they would cut out that portion of the seat for a drop/droplet. I would think they could just photograph it, and analyze it. I guess, at the most right now, the fact that they returned the vehicle to him tells us that some of the lab work has come back.

raisincharlie
03-27-2007, 05:46 PM
I see your point Utopia but I'm thinking the hotel is a planned part of the alibi. He didn't have to break up such a short journey with a hotel room imo. He could have driven to the place of the meeting the nite before and had a fresh start for the meeting or he could have headed out at 4am on the morning of the meeting and got there in plenty of time. I think it's a crock that he wanted to get a head start.

I agree, it's not going to prove in a Court that he planned the murder, but in my mind, it will!:crazy: If he booked the hotel the Thursday, (just like he phoned his parents) I think it's very suspicious.

I can't help but to think the therapist link is something huge, something that if JY is indeed the perp, he was very disturbed about. Given the proximity of Michelle seeing the therapist in relation to the date of her death - I have a feeling you could be correct Ms. Jilly.

Scout
03-27-2007, 06:07 PM
Maybe the blood in the vehicle was his? In which case it's another piece of the puzzle imo.

I can't believe that for such a brutal crime that this case will not be solved & prosecuted successfully.

It couldn't be this easy to get away with murder, could it? If so, then this JY has horseshoes up his butt. There is so much in his favor here.

If he did do it, then I think this is probably the best client that Smith has ever had, to date. JY has obviously thought about other murderers who have been so stupid so as to convict themselves. I wonder how many conversations he had with his buddies about Scott Peterson. As we all know that case was nation-wide.

Right now, I think he planned this. Maybe only for a couple of days and I say that because of him telling his parents on the Thursday nite that he was going to visit them. I would like to know when he booked that hotel.

Has he been swallowing horseshoes, too?!

j2mirish
03-27-2007, 07:21 PM
I can't help but to think the therapist link is something huge, something that if JY is indeed the perp, he was very disturbed about. Given the proximity of Michelle seeing the therapist in relation to the date of her death - I have a feeling you could be correct Ms. Jilly.
but if it was big......shouldnt there be some news or an arrest? dang nabbittt-:confused::confused:

jilly
03-27-2007, 07:52 PM
I can't help but to think the therapist link is something huge, something that if JY is indeed the perp, he was very disturbed about. Given the proximity of Michelle seeing the therapist in relation to the date of her death - I have a feeling you could be correct Ms. Jilly.

I agree with you about this therapist RC - And she sure wasn't seeing a therapist for having an old boyfriend show up imo. lol - lost some credibility for that poster this morning for throwing that idea out there!

Like someone else pointed out - there was so much going on in that poor woman's life leading up to her death, I'm sure she's not going to go to a therapist to complain about an old boyfriend.

Nopey nope. I think she went to a therapist to talk about JY and her crumbling marriage.

jilly
03-27-2007, 08:15 PM
Has he been swallowing horseshoes, too?!

Bwaaaaaahahaha! :laugh:You're fast Scout!

By the way, you brought up an interesting point this morning (over there) about the friends of JYs and invited input from any psychologists.

I'm not a psychologist but was going to add my 2 bits before the thread closed.

I am not surprised by the actions of some of JYs friends. It's a sign of the times imo of the 'me world'. Briefly, it's my house, my kids and my friends The whole attitude today about entitlement and how dare anyone criticize them. It's about cheating and beating the system. Morals such as honesty and integrity are becoming a thing of the past.

I won't go on except to say that I think we are going to see a lot more men murdering their wives. Many have this sense today of instant gratification and if it means murdering your pregnant wife, so be it.

I'll now get off my amateur psychologist soap box.

strach304
03-27-2007, 08:37 PM
Jilly, I'll clarify on the blood further since I can hardly understand what I'm explaining myself sometimes. The first instance with the blood and it was reported legitimately were the two droplets suspected to be blood by LE for probable cause. We never did get verification on those results. Don't even know if it was blood for that matter.

What I was referring to in Scandi's post is about a rumor on the ctv board placed by a poster a few days ago stating they heard there was blood (traces, I think) found on the steering wheel inside the door and the floor mats of the SUV. Scandi's post #146 verifies that poster said it was Michelle's blood. Scandi, details correct? I think a good reason for not believing it was another poster first brought it up as what if and then later a different one said they heard this. So? The other reasons I gave are legitimate ones also for why I discount that possibility. :blushing:

strach304
03-27-2007, 08:52 PM
I'm in agreement with everyone's line of thinking on the therapist as well. I've already said I could go either way on the premed so with those thoughts in mind anyone wonder if it was on purpose that Michelle didn't get to see her Doctor the next day? Regardless or which one that was since we don't know.

RC and Jilly, do you think Jason found out something Wed. or Thurs. for instance and got a plan in motion right away? He got an early start but only drove 2.5 hours to the hotel? Made an excuse to go to his mothers even though it's a very good possibility he knew he had friends coming and the whole HC big game weekend planned. Maybe he was trying to shut up Michelle before an appt. with her therapist or knew she'd find out about the affair/cheating because he contracted a STD? Also back to the she threw him out or told him to be gone theory. The original business trip was legit and he was going to drive 4 or 5 hours then go to a hotel and something happened that he started making last minute helter skelter plans? That would explain why some parts look premeditated and others don't?

Utopia
03-27-2007, 09:00 PM
snipped...

I agree, it's not going to prove in a Court that he planned the murder, but in my mind, it will!:crazy: If he booked the hotel the Thursday, (just like he phoned his parents) I think it's very suspicious.

I see where you were headed now, thanks for clarifying. I also wonder when that meeting was set up.:confused:

I agree with the rest of you about the therapist, it certainly sounds important. It could be taking time if what is in the notes has caused further investigation, I'll bet it has.

I couldn't find ducks - penguins are related right?....

Ducks in a row http://www.thesmilies.com/smilies/animal/penguin.gif (http://www.thesmilies.com)http://www.thesmilies.com/smilies/animal/penguin.gif (http://www.thesmilies.com)http://www.thesmilies.com/smilies/animal/penguin.gif (http://www.thesmilies.com)http://www.thesmilies.com/smilies/animal/penguin.gif (http://www.thesmilies.com)http://www.thesmilies.com/smilies/animal/penguin.gif (http://www.thesmilies.com)http://www.thesmilies.com/smilies/animal/penguin.gif (http://www.thesmilies.com/)http://www.thesmilies.com/smilies/animal/penguin.gif (http://www.thesmilies.com/)http://www.thesmilies.com/smilies/animal/penguin.gif (http://www.thesmilies.com/) (or perhaps, March of the Penguins!):D

(http://www.thesmilies.com)

scandi
03-27-2007, 09:06 PM
Hi Guys, Facts are right Strach as what I reported was said in that post. I'm trying to rack my brain as to who he was - AE, I think. It really surprised me as he just simply laid it out there in a short little post that ended pretty much getting lost within the foree of the evfening!

And I think he used the word 'traces' of blood. The next day I got to thinking that it could be JY had tried to clean or wash out the car {remember when Scott used bleach to clean out the bed of his truck :loser: :loser: } So the traces that were left he couldn't see with the naked eye, possibly. In floor mats and steering wheels there are lots of possibilities for cracks or pinholes where blood could seep into.

We don't even know if it is true. For this poster to have been posting for a month or so and then just let it slip out, was strange in the least

scandi
03-27-2007, 09:24 PM
I see where you were headed now, thanks for clarifying. I also wonder when that meeting was set up.:confused:

I agree with the rest of you about the therapist, it certainly sounds important. It could be taking time if what is in the notes has caused further investigation, I'll bet it has.

I couldn't find ducks - penguins are related right?....

Ducks in a row http://www.thesmilies.com/smilies/animal/penguin.gif (http://www.thesmilies.com)http://www.thesmilies.com/smilies/animal/penguin.gif (http://www.thesmilies.com)http://www.thesmilies.com/smilies/animal/penguin.gif (http://www.thesmilies.com)http://www.thesmilies.com/smilies/animal/penguin.gif (http://www.thesmilies.com)http://www.thesmilies.com/smilies/animal/penguin.gif (http://www.thesmilies.com)http://www.thesmilies.com/smilies/animal/penguin.gif (http://www.thesmilies.com/)http://www.thesmilies.com/smilies/animal/penguin.gif (http://www.thesmilies.com/)http://www.thesmilies.com/smilies/animal/penguin.gif (http://www.thesmilies.com/) (or perhaps, March of the Penguins!):D

(http://www.thesmilies.com)

How Funny, reminding me of the play 'Mr Poppers Penguins' from Jr High days. :D

I do agree with Charlie that the therapist info could be major to the case.

Trouble 'a brewing with a seemingly negligent car accident, and 2 1/2 mos later, approx, till he started his affait w/ MM in August, change of jobs at that same time and seldom home what with trips to Fl and Denver and roving around the countryside in his job . . . . nights spent in motels . . .

. . . . it is like the summer months signaled a change in them as a couple, and then having it esecalate up to Halloween when the tension snapped, and all of his erring ways caught up with him and she said no more. Michelle was at the opposite end of the pole from him, having been virtually pregnant solid since almost the first of the year. The threat of losing Cassy hit him hard, and he meant every threat on her life in those heated moments when they argued.

Like I always say, one early morning in the quiet of night he found his hand clenched around her neck. I really think that happened quite a bit like that

Scandi.

jilly
03-27-2007, 09:25 PM
Hi Guys, Facts are right Strach as what I reported was said in that post. I'm trying to rack my brain as to who he was - AE, I think. It really surprised me as he just simply laid it out there in a short little post that ended pretty much getting lost within the foree of the evfening!

And I think he used the word 'traces' of blood. The next day I got to thinking that it could be JY had tried to clean or wash out the car {remember when Scott used bleach to clean out the bed of his truck :loser: :loser: } So the traces that were left he couldn't see with the naked eye, possibly. In floor mats and steering wheels there are lots of possibilities for cracks or pinholes where blood could seep into.

We don't even know if it is true. For this poster to have been posting for a month or so and then just let it slip out, was strange in the least

I'm reading backwards here.

Scandi - I don't believe anything AE says fwiw. I think he's just an ornery troll. And if it is in fact AE, I think he signed up well before this murder if I recall correctly. I think it was June '06. I could be wrong - there's been so much nonsense going on at that site, it's hard to keep up.

jilly
03-27-2007, 09:38 PM
Jilly, I'll clarify on the blood further since I can hardly understand what I'm explaining myself sometimes. The first instance with the blood and it was reported legitimately were the two droplets suspected to be blood by LE for probable cause. We never did get verification on those results. Don't even know if it was blood for that matter.

What I was referring to in Scandi's post is about a rumor on the ctv board placed by a poster a few days ago stating they heard there was blood (traces, I think) found on the steering wheel inside the door and the floor mats of the SUV. Scandi's post #146 verifies that poster said it was Michelle's blood. Scandi, details correct? I think a good reason for not believing it was another poster first brought it up as what if and then later a different one said they heard this. So? The other reasons I gave are legitimate ones also for why I discount that possibility. :blushing:

Thanks for explaining Strach. I'm sure it's me - sometimes I have to read a post 13 times before something will lodge. I think I'm suffering from info overload on this case and most of it is spam.

I really don't know about this blood on steering wheel, inside door & floor mats. Seems a bit odd if this guy was careful enough to take a shower that he wouldn't be extra careful about getting Michelle's blood all over the interior of the vehicle. Surely he would have used a couple of Glad garbage bags (not trying to make light of it).

Could be the second poster you're referring to took Poster #1s info as fact and not what if? I've seen that happen many times over there.

Utopia
03-27-2007, 09:41 PM
Actually, the more I think about it, the more those penguins are appropriate. Have you seen March of the Penguins? You should see what the Empire males go through for their mates and children - incredible! Murdering mates should be forced to watch that film over and over again.

I agree with Jilly re AE - how could he possibly have access to those details?

Samiya
03-27-2007, 09:57 PM
Sami (or anyone who knows),

How much would a medical examiner be able to tell from autopsy on an "attempted" strangulation and how much would actually make it to the autopsy report? Reasoning is this. I'm not convinced that the perp was trying to strangle her to kill her. I think he was trying to control her and hold her down. I assume the ME would be able to tell by bruising if the perp uses one hand or two. Seems that one hand would cause markings on the side of the neck where two hands would make more sense for the bruising to be on the front and back of the neck.

I think the perp brought a weapon into the house rather than grabbing something out of the bedroom after failing to strangle Michelle and the "strangulation" marks on the neck will show that it was one hand rather than two. One to hold, one to swing.

Hi Pack,

Manual Strangulation is strangulation that doesn't involve a ligature, and that includes hanging. Strangulation is actually quite 'technical' and involves more than just grabbing around the throat until dead..

"Manual Strangulation" as a term in an AR refers to successful strangulation using a part of the body (hand, hands forearm and includes holding a foot down onto a victims neck to cause cessation of breathing. It may or may not be cause of the decedents death, depending if other severe injuries are present that can cause death. (ie; Victim may have been strangled after death by a perp who wasn't sure if victim was in fact dead)

"Attempted Manual Strangulation" refers to a series of identifiers that lead an Examiner to believe that manual strangulation was attempted. The identifiers include hemorrhaging of the neck muscles, Odema of the neck, discolouration and/or bruising, Injury to the Larynx, Fracturing of the Hyoid Bone and a number of other identifiers. In most cases, not all identifiers are present.

It is certainly possible that one hand was used as a controlling method instead of actually trying to strangle Michelle.

Sami
FF

jilly
03-27-2007, 10:11 PM
I'm in agreement with everyone's line of thinking on the therapist as well. I've already said I could go either way on the premed so with those thoughts in mind anyone wonder if it was on purpose that Michelle didn't get to see her Doctor the next day? Regardless or which one that was since we don't know.

RC and Jilly, do you think Jason found out something Wed. or Thurs. for instance and got a plan in motion right away? He got an early start but only drove 2.5 hours to the hotel? Made an excuse to go to his mothers even though it's a very good possibility he knew he had friends coming and the whole HC big game weekend planned. Maybe he was trying to shut up Michelle before an appt. with her therapist or knew she'd find out about the affair/cheating because he contracted a STD? Also back to the she threw him out or told him to be gone theory. The original business trip was legit and he was going to drive 4 or 5 hours then go to a hotel and something happened that he started making last minute helter skelter plans? That would explain why some parts look premeditated and others don't?

That's a very good point about who the doctor was that she was supposed to see that next day. I think it was JY who got the message out that Michelle had a doctor's appointment that Friday. Wouldn't doubt if he was sneaky enough to deliberately omit the fact that it was a therapist.

Yes I'm leaning towards him finding out something the Wed or Thurs. Planned the hotel only 2.5 miles away so he could go back & forth. Phoned mom (Thursday nite) so that he didn't have to show up there unexpectedly which might arouse suspicion later.

Yes. I believe (for now) the meeting was always planned and possibly because of it, he thought he could work around that to get an alibi - the hotel. Otherwise, like I said before, he would have got to the place of meeting on the Thursday nite so he could have a good sleep and whip off to the meeting in the morning. This even makes more sense to me that he would do this if he knew he had friends arriving in Raleigh on the Friday and he would drive back after the meeting to be home around the time they were expected.

BUT speaking of the friends.....I just remembered. One credible poster (in my mind) said that the friends that were expected were MM & her husband and they cancelled because their child was sick.

Samiya
03-27-2007, 10:12 PM
One thing I've learnt at ctv, lol.

You can't try and calm a poster down so you can see how far this individual is willing to go to heap 'garbage' on investigators in their blame game, lol.

Sami

raisincharlie
03-27-2007, 10:33 PM
One thing I've learnt at ctv, lol.

You can't try and calm a poster down so you can see how far this individual is willing to go to heap 'garbage' on investigators in their blame game, lol.

Sami


Same old story - blame everyone but the murderer....yawn.

I find it entertaining that first it was Jy's Mum handling the cops, while JY was hiding in Meredith's house - have to wonder why he wasn't out there protecting his Mum from the big bad policemen ? Now we are back to the cops being too aggressive to JY and accusing him of bad things.

I think that LE should have hauled his backside into the police station that night - he could have sat there and waited for his lawyer that he referred LE too. Aggressive my foot - LE missed a golden opportunity to make him sweat and to observe him by not hauling him in. They would have been justified based on what was in the probable cause section of the SW alone. Some things never change...

raisincharlie
03-27-2007, 10:47 PM
but if it was big......shouldnt there be some news or an arrest? dang nabbittt-:confused::confused:
j2mirish,

If I had the answer to that it would be great. I get the feeling there are lots of angles to be considered here. I do believe there may be some unidentified prints that LE is trying to resolve for one thing. I also think the DA will most likely seek a death penalty in this case which may place stronger emphasis on more detail and then there is the law firm of JY's choice - well known to the DA, therefore tactics are most likely know as well.

I think by now the lab work is back. I also think there may be something missing that definitively defines JY's presence and the DA may be a bit leary of advancing without resolving that issue. I do think it will be resolved however.

raisincharlie
03-28-2007, 10:17 AM
I'm in agreement with everyone's line of thinking on the therapist as well. I've already said I could go either way on the premed so with those thoughts in mind anyone wonder if it was on purpose that Michelle didn't get to see her Doctor the next day? Regardless or which one that was since we don't know.

RC and Jilly, do you think Jason found out something Wed. or Thurs. for instance and got a plan in motion right away? He got an early start but only drove 2.5 hours to the hotel? Made an excuse to go to his mothers even though it's a very good possibility he knew he had friends coming and the whole HC big game weekend planned. Maybe he was trying to shut up Michelle before an appt. with her therapist or knew she'd find out about the affair/cheating because he contracted a STD? Also back to the she threw him out or told him to be gone theory. The original business trip was legit and he was going to drive 4 or 5 hours then go to a hotel and something happened that he started making last minute helter skelter plans? That would explain why some parts look premeditated and others don't?

Strach,

You make some good points - obviously some data is not known to us to delineate if this was premeditated days before, hours before, or even minutes before. One thing seems obvious, at some point it was without a doubt premeditated.

If one follows the Team JY proposal that Jy called his Mum on Thursday evening at 9 pm to arrange a visit and then got Michelle's "approval" at 11 pm, that certainly could go either way. however why would JY get Michelle's approval after the fact ? I focus on this issue because the business meeting which may or may not have been scheduled is a complete unknown. Not that I put much credence in the rumor, but either this is a very sly rumor or it could be close to the truth - I say that because the rumor itself is contradictory in nature. This rumor also contradicts the presentation of the rumor, in my mind, that JY did not talk on the phone while driving, thus necessitating him checking his voicemail.

Wish we had some facts. All I know is that at some point someone meant to kill this young woman and they did so in an extremely brutal fashion. The coincidences continue to increase in number.

jilly
03-28-2007, 11:05 AM
Strach,

You make some good points - obviously some data is not known to us to delineate if this was premeditated days before, hours before, or even minutes before. One thing seems obvious, at some point it was without a doubt premeditated.

If one follows the Team JY proposal that Jy called his Mum on Thursday evening at 9 pm to arrange a visit and then got Michelle's "approval" at 11 pm, that certainly could go either way. however why would JY get Michelle's approval after the fact ? I focus on this issue because the business meeting which may or may not have been scheduled is a complete unknown. Not that I put much credence in the rumor, but either this is a very sly rumor or it could be close to the truth - I say that because the rumor itself is contradictory in nature. This rumor also contradicts the presentation of the rumor, in my mind, that JY did not talk on the phone while driving, thus necessitating him checking his voicemail.

Wish we had some facts. All I know is that at some point someone meant to kill this young woman and they did so in an extremely brutal fashion. The coincidences continue to increase in number.

Morning RC! I agree the rumors contradict. I have to say I didn't swallow the 11:00 "approval" - especially when he didn't get her approval for the CA trip.

I still think he might have called her at 11pm. He apparently told people at the funeral that he did so and he knows there would be a record of that. I think he turned his phone off after that call. Why he called her I don't know unless it was just to make sure she was alone and the GA friend wasn't staying over or something.

I agree with you - " at some point someone meant to kill this young woman...".

Utopia
03-28-2007, 11:16 AM
[quote=jilly;1404306 Snipped...

I still think he might have called her at 11pm. He apparently told people at the funeral that he did so and he knows there will be a record of that. I think he turned his phone off after that call. Why he called her I don't know unless it was just to make sure she was alone and the GA friend wasn't staying over or something.


EXACTLY!

FactsareFacts
03-28-2007, 12:52 PM
Hi Guys, Facts are right Strach as what I reported was said in that post. I'm trying to rack my brain as to who he was - AE, I think. It really surprised me as he just simply laid it out there in a short little post that ended pretty much getting lost within the foree of the evfening!

And I think he used the word 'traces' of blood. The next day I got to thinking that it could be JY had tried to clean or wash out the car {remember when Scott used bleach to clean out the bed of his truck :loser: :loser: } So the traces that were left he couldn't see with the naked eye, possibly. In floor mats and steering wheels there are lots of possibilities for cracks or pinholes where blood could seep into.

We don't even know if it is true. For this poster to have been posting for a month or so and then just let it slip out, was strange in the least


Hey there

I have been reading over at CTV and just thought I would throw my two cents in here. AE is the poster you are talking about in reference to the spots of blood. FWIW It was posed in the form of a question, not fact but that poster has been banned and all their posts were wiped. From what I read over there AE is nothing but a thorn in the side over there.:silenced:

raisincharlie
03-28-2007, 01:04 PM
Morning RC! I agree the rumors contradict. I have to say I didn't swallow the 11:00 "approval" - especially when he didn't get her approval for the CA trip.

I still think he might have called her at 11pm. He apparently told people at the funeral that he did so and he knows there would be a record of that. I think he turned his phone off after that call. Why he called her I don't know unless it was just to make sure she was alone and the GA friend wasn't staying over or something.

I agree with you - " at some point someone meant to kill this young woman...".

Jilly,

I agree, if JY told people at the funeral that he called Michelle at 11, most likely that is true. However, the truth is - we only have a rumor saying he did, so what can one say? Fussell didn't mention it during his 15 minutes and no one else is quoted as saying such. Still not sure this is true or not.

As to the approval issue - I'm with you on that one. If it is true as posted in the search warrants that Michelle was upset about the Ca trip, obviously JY did not have her approval to take it. Can't for some reason imagine why he would feel the need to take a side trip to Brevard and ask for approval to do so based on that alone. I agree, if the 11 pm call happened, it was a fishing expedition IMO.

jilly
03-28-2007, 01:34 PM
Actually, the more I think about it, the more those penguins are appropriate. Have you seen March of the Penguins? You should see what the Empire males go through for their mates and children - incredible! Murdering mates should be forced to watch that film over and over again.

I agree with Jilly re AE - how could he possibly have access to those details?

I missed this post before - I keep meaning to rent that movie and keep forgetting about it. Thank you for reminding me!:)

jilly
03-28-2007, 01:56 PM
Jilly,

I agree, if JY told people at the funeral that he called Michelle at 11, most likely that is true. However, the truth is - we only have a rumor saying he did, so what can one say? Fussell didn't mention it during his 15 minutes and no one else is quoted as saying such. Still not sure this is true or not.

As to the approval issue - I'm with you on that one. If it is true as posted in the search warrants that Michelle was upset about the Ca trip, obviously JY did not have her approval to take it. Can't for some reason imagine why he would feel the need to take a side trip to Brevard and ask for approval to do so based on that alone. I agree, if the 11 pm call happened, it was a fishing expedition IMO.

Yes....got ya on the rumors. I will also confess that I may be selective on what I want to believe too because my gut tells me this guy did it.

It would be interesting to know if JY made a habit of calling her when he was out of town. I have read that he used to get ticked off at her when she called him. If he did, I would think he'd call at a time when Cassidy was awake to talk to her (like many dads I know do). If he only went to Hillsville then I don't see the point really of calling to say "hi Honey, I made it" when he'd just seen her a couple of hours before - especially at 11:00 at nite. So, if he did call her, imo there was an ulterior motive.

Utopia
03-28-2007, 02:40 PM
Jilly & RC,

If innocent, it makes sense that he would call her to tell her about a change in plans, I would certainly expect my husband to do that if I was expecting him back the next day and he was going to stay away an extra night to visit his parents, especially if we were expecting company - not unreasonable, though certainly not a matter of "permission". Then again, we don't have children and I'm not pregnant. However, if premeditated murder is involved, the side trip was likely part of the plan all along and the phone call a ruse as Jilly suggests. On the other hand, as RC points out, premeditation can be months in advance or a few minutes.



Yes....got ya on the rumors. I will also confess that I may be selective on what I want to believe too because my gut tells me this guy did it.

It would be interesting to know if JY made a habit of calling her when he was out of town. I have read that he used to get ticked off at her when she called him. If he did, I would think he'd call at a time when Cassidy was awake to talk to her (like many dads I know do). If he only went to Hillsville then I don't see the point really of calling to say "hi Honey, I made it" when he'd just seen her a couple of hours before - especially at 11:00 at nite. So, if he did call her, imo there was an ulterior motive.

liveoutloud
03-28-2007, 03:20 PM
Hi!
Long time sporadic lurker. Question for anyone who might know. There has been a lot of talk, argument, whatever, by posters on CTV about what time the Youngs left Brevard for Raleigh on the 3rd of November. Does anyone know this information? Even if only from a credible inside source. Thanks.

raisincharlie
03-28-2007, 03:23 PM
Jilly & RC,

If innocent, it makes sense that he would call her to tell her about a change in plans, I would certainly expect my husband to do that if I was expecting him back the next day and he was going to stay away an extra night to visit his parents, especially if we were expecting company - not unreasonable, though certainly not a matter of "permission". Then again, we don't have children and I'm not pregnant. However, if premeditated murder is involved, the side trip was likely part of the plan all along and the phone call a ruse as Jilly suggests. On the other hand, as RC points out, premeditation can be months in advance or a few minutes.

Does it make sense for him to make the arrangement to go to his parents house before he asks his wife if she is comfortable babysitting his friends that are coming from out of town ? Does it make sense for him at all to even go to his parents house with his friends coming into town ? Seems pretty rude to the friend and even rude to the wife to expect her to babysit the friend that is his friend - at least in my book.

raisincharlie
03-28-2007, 03:27 PM
Hi!
Long time sporadic lurker. Question for anyone who might know. There has been a lot of talk, argument, whatever, by posters on CTV about what time the Youngs left Brevard for Raleigh on the 3rd of November. Does anyone know this information? Even if only from a credible inside source. Thanks.

That time really varies as the insiders say he arrived at Merediths anywhere between 9 pm and 1130 pm.

9pm would mean they left Brevard no later than 4 pm
1130 pm would mean they left Brevard no later than 630 pm.

Not really an answer but its the best I can give you and based strictly on rumor. The only thing we know for sure from a search warrant is the SUV was being detained and Major Johnson arrived to look at the SUV somewhere just after or near midnight on 4 November.

liveoutloud
03-28-2007, 04:15 PM
That time really varies as the insiders say he arrived at Merediths anywhere between 9 pm and 1130 pm.

9pm would mean they left Brevard no later than 4 pm
1130 pm would mean they left Brevard no later than 630 pm.

Not really an answer but its the best I can give you and based strictly on rumor. The only thing we know for sure from a search warrant is the SUV was being detained and Major Johnson arrived to look at the SUV somewhere just after or near midnight on 4 November.


Thanks Raisin C.

That leaves me with another question. How do we know that Major Johnson arrived near or just after midnight on the 4th. Thanks again!

raisincharlie
03-28-2007, 04:36 PM
Thanks Raisin C.

That leaves me with another question. How do we know that Major Johnson arrived near or just after midnight on the 4th. Thanks again!

The 11/4 search warrant for the SUV, under the probable cause section indicates that the vehicle was being detained and that Major Johnson "arrived on 11/4 at the residence in Fuguay-Varina' at which time he inspected the SUV. Based on his observation of the vehicle Inspector Lilyquist prepared the probable cause sections and found a Magistrate to sign the request for the warrant at 0315 am on 11/4

Don't know how much time the major spent looking at the SUV or how long it took the other fellow to complete the paper work and find a magistrate to wake up so the window could be larger.

Kadie
03-28-2007, 06:19 PM
Any one have any thoughts on who is dkjack at CTV?
People are calling him/her "John" when they reply! :)

Haven't lurked over there since lunchtime today so no idea if anything new is being "reported."

Do we think the March 31st date for the arrest is correct??

Kadie
03-28-2007, 06:21 PM
The 11/4 search warrant for the SUV, under the probable cause section indicates that the vehicle was being detained and that Major Johnson "arrived on 11/4 at the residence in Fuguay-Varina' at which time he inspected the SUV. Based on his observation of the vehicle Inspector Lilyquist prepared the probable cause sections and found a Magistrate to sign the request for the warrant at 0315 am on 11/4

Don't know how much time the major spent looking at the SUV or how long it took the other fellow to complete the paper work and find a magistrate to wake up so the window could be larger.

RC.......you are just too smart!!

Do you think the therapist's notes implicated someone else? (hitman/mistress) Or do you think LE is tying up loose ends to have an airtight case to bring to the GJ?? Love to hear your thoughts!

raisincharlie
03-28-2007, 06:37 PM
RC.......you are just too smart!!

Do you think the therapist's notes implicated someone else? (hitman/mistress) Or do you think LE is tying up loose ends to have an airtight case to bring to the GJ?? Love to hear your thoughts!

Kadie,

The therapist's notes are interesting, my mind wants to think one thing but logic dictates the notes could reveal a number of things. First I think Michelle was most likely a very bright young lady and I don't think much was lost on her.

My gut instinct is the notes don't come right out and say that one individual is the murderer however I do think the notes will give direction to an individual. I don't think they will reveal anything relating to a hitman. I think there will be something pointing to knowledge of a mistress or mistresses, I don't for a second buy that JY had but one affair nor do I buy that Michelle was oblivious to it.

Not knowing the time frame involved, other than it was shortly before her death that Michelle started seeing the therapist I have a feeling that Michelle was verbally and mentally abused for a while. I have this feeling it also escalated to at least one event, if not more, of physical abuse within her marriage within months of her death and at the hands of JY. I am led to believe that because of the short duration of meetings that Michelle could have had with this therapist and the ruling of the judge indicating the notes were relevant to the investigation. I could be very far off base but this is my thought process.

Utopia
03-28-2007, 06:39 PM
Does it make sense for him to make the arrangement to go to his parents house before he asks his wife if she is comfortable babysitting his friends that are coming from out of town ? Does it make sense for him at all to even go to his parents house with his friends coming into town ? Seems pretty rude to the friend and even rude to the wife to expect her to babysit the friend that is his friend - at least in my book.

Nope, Nope and Nope, doesn't make sense and would be very rude and inconsiderate. I was probably being too subtle in my post and maybe not clear. The "not unreasonable" referred to the expectation of a phone call if plans changed and not to the expectation that she wouldn't mind. I certainly would, particularly leaving me alone to entertain his friends - but like you, my husband wouldn't do that. However, because I think he's guilty, I don't think that is what happened. As Jilly suggested he called to make sure MY was alone and likely didn't even mention a change in plans but made some other excuse for the call - suggesting premeditation.

Utopia

liveoutloud
03-28-2007, 06:40 PM
The 11/4 search warrant for the SUV, under the probable cause section indicates that the vehicle was being detained and that Major Johnson "arrived on 11/4 at the residence in Fuguay-Varina' at which time he inspected the SUV. Based on his observation of the vehicle Inspector Lilyquist prepared the probable cause sections and found a Magistrate to sign the request for the warrant at 0315 am on 11/4

Don't know how much time the major spent looking at the SUV or how long it took the other fellow to complete the paper work and find a magistrate to wake up so the window could be larger.


Ok. I know I a pain, but here goes. How long could LE "detain" JY's vehicle without that warrant if you know? Thanks.

raisincharlie
03-28-2007, 06:47 PM
Ok. I know I a pain, but here goes. How long could LE "detain" JY's vehicle without that warrant if you know? Thanks.

Pending a murder investigation. What we know LE knew very quickly was that JY was supposed to be out of town and that he called his sister in law to retrieve a document. In the 911 call we hear Meredith indicate it was a fluke that she came by, LE would have been aware of anything Meredith told them before JY returned. Standard procedure for LE is to start with those closest and work out. LE had no proof JY was anywhere in particular when Michelle was murdered. Perhaps JY's refusal to speak with LE from the get go raised suspicion, perhaps the droplets that appeared similar to blood on the SUV also raised suspicion. How long, until a judge refused to issue the warrant.

SOP is the best answer.

Not a pain at all !

Kadie
03-28-2007, 07:06 PM
RC,

I agree with you. I think the months before her murder, MY was emotionally/mentally abused.....possibly physically as well. Someone posted (either here or CTV) that maybe some type of comment was made by JY like......"you leave me and take CY with you.....you're dead" or "if you file for divorce, I'll kill you" then maybe some type of FLUKE accident happened which made MY suspicious that JY was serious when making those type of statements. I don't know...maybe I am way off base. But for some reason, I think something happened in the months before the murder that made her see a therapist. It could of been as simple as she found out about MM...just rambling I guess!
I don't post a lot but sure enjoy everyone's posts over here!

Kadie

liveoutloud
03-28-2007, 07:08 PM
Pending a murder investigation. What we know LE knew very quickly was that JY was supposed to be out of town and that he called his sister in law to retrieve a document. In the 911 call we hear Meredith indicate it was a fluke that she came by, LE would have been aware of anything Meredith told them before JY returned. Standard procedure for LE is to start with those closest and work out. LE had no proof JY was anywhere in particular when Michelle was murdered. Perhaps JY's refusal to speak with LE from the get go raised suspicion, perhaps the droplets that appeared similar to blood on the SUV also raised suspicion. How long, until a judge refused to issue the warrant.

SOP is the best answer.

Not a pain at all !

Thanks Raisin!

So, they could have detained his vehicle from 9pm or so until the warrant was obtained aroudn 3 am or so? If they had to I mean. In all probability this window of time is smaller? I'm curious (probably should have stated this up front) about the time JY spent in Brevard after being notified about his wife's death? To me, waiting around spells COG. Also, do you recall if there was more than one vehicle in this family caravan? Or just JY's vehicle? Thanks again!

raisincharlie
03-28-2007, 07:23 PM
Thanks Raisin!

So, they could have detained his vehicle from 9pm or so until the warrant was obtained aroudn 3 am or so? If they had to I mean. In all probability this window of time is smaller? I'm curious (probably should have stated this up front) about the time JY spent in Brevard after being notified about his wife's death? To me, waiting around spells COG. Also, do you recall if there was more than one vehicle in this family caravan? Or just JY's vehicle? Thanks again!


Liveoutloud,

I would think that LE would have to provide a rather rapid response, in other words they can't just detain it for fun - they have to show response. I would think it highly unlikely that the vehicle would have been detained 3 or 4 hours before an investigator would arrive to view it. There are certain obligations.

Given the circumstances, I don't really think there was any real waiting around in Brevard. I do think that JY's Mum, Sis, and brother in law needed time to pack for the return to Raleigh and given his rumored arrival time in Brevard (around 3 pm) I could see it taking a couple of hours for the family to collect themselves, pack and prepare to leave. i believe they would have also had to stop to refuel the vehicle somewhere along the way - pit stops if you will. The other reason I don't think there was a lot of waiting around in Brevard is that JY's Mum would have been very concerned about Cassidy and getting to her as quickly as possible. One other thing - we do know that JY's laptop was still in the Explorer as it was taken under warrant - this leds me to believe he never got the chance to unpack the Explorer from his trip to Va. Just my line of thought on this though.

From what I understand - there was just the Explorer and they all rode together. The Step father arrived on saturday I believe.

By the way - I like your nic - sounds like sage advice - live out loud .

jilly
03-28-2007, 07:29 PM
The 11/4 search warrant for the SUV, under the probable cause section indicates that the vehicle was being detained and that Major Johnson "arrived on 11/4 at the residence in Fuguay-Varina' at which time he inspected the SUV. Based on his observation of the vehicle Inspector Lilyquist prepared the probable cause sections and found a Magistrate to sign the request for the warrant at 0315 am on 11/4

Don't know how much time the major spent looking at the SUV or how long it took the other fellow to complete the paper work and find a magistrate to wake up so the window could be larger.

Glad you brought up that 0315 time. I'm thinking that the Youngs' must have got there maybe even later than 9:30pm. I don't think it's going to take 6 hrs to find a magistrate. I was a Court Clerk back in my younger days and all these Magistrates were on call - the cops had a list.

If they did arrive later seems to me they had already retained Smith?

RC wasn't there something about Major Johnson arriving there at midnite? Your memory is better than mine!! Trying to figure out how this all went down. If we believe gojo he said as the Youngs' arrived, so did LE with bells & whistles. I guess these guys then notified Johnson that they were there?

liveoutloud
03-28-2007, 07:33 PM
Liveoutloud,

I would think that LE would have to provide a rather rapid response, in other words they can't just detain it for fun - they have to show response. I would think it highly unlikely that the vehicle would have been detained 3 or 4 hours before an investigator would arrive to view it. There are certain obligations.

Given the circumstances, I don't really think there was any real waiting around in Brevard. I do think that JY's Mum, Sis, and brother in law needed time to pack for the return to Raleigh and given his rumored arrival time in Brevard (around 3 pm) I could see it taking a couple of hours for the family to collect themselves, pack and prepare to leave. i believe they would have also had to stop to refuel the vehicle somewhere along the way - pit stops if you will. The other reason I don't think there was a lot of waiting around in Brevard is that JY's Mum would have been very concerned about Cassidy and getting to her as quickly as possible. One other thing - we do know that JY's laptop was still in the Explorer as it was taken under warrant - this leds me to believe he never got the chance to unpack the Explorer from his trip to Va. Just my line of thought on this though.

From what I understand - there was just the Explorer and they all rode together. The Step father arrived on saturday I believe.

By the way - I like your nic - sounds like sage advice - live out loud .

Thanks Raisin

My daughter gave me the nickname a long time ago. Could be the impression I do of Queen Elizabeth singing Melissa Etheridge's "I'm the Only One." I digress. Ok so, to your knowledge then, we have a ballpark range on the arrival time in Raleigh. Next question (you thought they would stop didn't you?). I have read pages and pages here and on CTV and I cannot come to a concensus on when JY left Raleigh and if it was felt that when he did leave for that business trip that his plans were to go to Brevard afterwards. Seems like in the beginning of the case, this planned trip to Brevard was just accepted as fact. Later though, after God only knows how many "insiders" have weighed in, this fact isn't a fact either? Is that how you understand it? BTW, hello everyone! I don't mean to single out Raisin (although I admire his deductive prowess). Anyone feel free to jump right on in, pleaee! Thanks!

raisincharlie
03-28-2007, 07:41 PM
Glad you brought up that 0315 time. I'm thinking that the Youngs' must have got there maybe even later than 9:30pm. I don't think it's going to take 6 hrs to find a magistrate. I was a Court Clerk back in my younger days and all these Magistrates were on call - the cops had a list.

If they did arrive later seems to me they had already retained Smith?

RC wasn't there something about Major Johnson arriving there at midnite? Your memory is better than mine!! Trying to figure out how this all went down. If we believe gojo he said as the Youngs' arrived, so did LE with bells & whistles. I guess these guys then notified Johnson that they were there?

Jilly,

My thought is they arrived at Meredith's between 1030 and 1130 pm. And yes I believe that Roger Smith was on board before JY left Brevard or else while JY was enroute to Raleigh - we do know he refused to speak at length with LE and did refer them to his lawyer.

I do not believe gojo about the lights and sirens - I believe there was LE at Meredith's house before JY was close to Raleigh. I say that because at that time LE most likely did not know exactly what they were dealing with - there would have been concern for the safety of both Meredith and Cassidy. Also LE would have kept Meredith segragated from others as long as possible since she found Michelle. So as far as I am concerned - gojo is nogo on that one. It is possible that other LE officials arrived after JY, most likely that is true as the SW clearly indicates Johnson arrived after the vehicle was detained and that he arrived on 11/4-remember Michelle was found at 130 pm 11/3.

One thing I noticed about the warrant was it did take until 4 am for the officer to return to Meredith's house to serve the warrant on JY. 45 minutes travel time from Raleigh to Fuguay Varina ?

raisincharlie
03-28-2007, 07:52 PM
Thanks Raisin

My daughter gave me the nickname a long time ago. Could be the impression I do of Queen Elizabeth singing Melissa Etheridge's "I'm the Only One." I digress. Ok so, to your knowledge then, we have a ballpark range on the arrival time in Raleigh. Next question (you thought they would stop didn't you?). I have read pages and pages here and on CTV and I cannot come to a concensus on when JY left Raleigh and if it was felt that when he did leave for that business trip that his plans were to go to Brevard afterwards. Seems like in the beginning of the case, this planned trip to Brevard was just accepted as fact. Later though, after God only knows how many "insiders" have weighed in, this fact isn't a fact either? Is that how you understand it? BTW, hello everyone! I don't mean to single out Raisin (although I admire his deductive prowess). Anyone feel free to jump right on in, pleaee! Thanks!

Queen Elizabeth belting out I'm the Only One - that is quite a visual !:)

I can't help you much with this one. I have read that JY left at 4pm, 630pm and 8pm - no idea which one is actually the closest to the truth and have not really seen anything that would make me think one time is more correct than the others.

In the begining it was believed that the trip to Brevard was based on the fact that the meeting he was supposed to have attended was close to Brevard so a swing by to the folks would be nice. Could be true but seems to have been contradicted by a strong supporter of JY's innocence who claimed JY called his Mum at 9pm on 11/2 and arranged for the trip then. I don't know why a supporter of JY's innocence would make this claim because actually in the context of murder - it looks very bad IMO. So truth is I can't really give you a good answer for that question - sure wish I had those answers though !:crazy:

strach304
03-28-2007, 07:57 PM
Wow! So many good thoughts here and great discussion! As long as nothing breaks soon in this case I'll try and address all the new thoughts and my comments generated by those great posts and posters. Love this group, hope I don't start to bore anyone:D

You guys are right about the "what if" poster, that was AE that said it which is why when I saw Scandi's post here I was :waitasec: Then 3 or 4 pages later someone like Mimi or Netbrood was saying it as "I heard" indicating it was a factual inside scoop that the rest of us weren't privey to so I thought that was what Scandi saw. Rather than traces it seems to me they might've said smears of Michelle's blood.

I too saw March of the Penguins, thought it was a kids movie like Happy Feet. :blushing:

"John" is Gojo, Netbrood, dkjack, or whatever incarnation he feels like being who is a friend of the Young family. He posted his real name there himself and seems to have a real vendetta against RPD if you know who that is. He is a poster here and there who provides useful and accurate info on the case that seems to bother some.

strach304
03-28-2007, 08:20 PM
Another point made about that side trip to brevard to get furniture when his friends were expected imo his friend could've helped him with it that night. It wouldn't have been an unreasonable hour by the time he got back.;) Also the info about the Money's canceling coming was for the HC game and not the same couple who was coming to spend the weekend at Michelle and Jasons house.

I for one am convinced the attorney was obtained while still in Brevard. LE first made brief statements saying they had only spoken to Jason briefly on the phone right after he first found out. Then the most recent statement made by Sheriff Harrison he stated Jason was not cooperating and the one time LE did talk to him briefly he referred them to his attorney. He has also said on several occasions that he would like to speak with Jason. Put that with the insiders info on friends telling him right away to get a lawyer and the stories of LE's harsh statements and questions to Jason during the 1st conversation and imo only one (phone) He had his attorney for the NTO.

Feel free to correct any info to mine because I know there's other details not jumping right to mind.

liveoutloud
03-28-2007, 08:26 PM
Jilly,

My thought is they arrived at Meredith's between 1030 and 1130 pm. And yes I believe that Roger Smith was on board before JY left Brevard or else while JY was enroute to Raleigh - we do know he refused to speak at length with LE and did refer them to his lawyer.

I do not believe gojo about the lights and sirens - I believe there was LE at Meredith's house before JY was close to Raleigh. I say that because at that time LE most likely did not know exactly what they were dealing with - there would have been concern for the safety of both Meredith and Cassidy. Also LE would have kept Meredith segragated from others as long as possible since she found Michelle. So as far as I am concerned - gojo is nogo on that one. It is possible that other LE officials arrived after JY, most likely that is true as the SW clearly indicates Johnson arrived after the vehicle was detained and that he arrived on 11/4-remember Michelle was found at 130 pm 11/3.

One thing I noticed about the warrant was it did take until 4 am for the officer to return to Meredith's house to serve the warrant on JY. 45 minutes travel time from Raleigh to Fuguay Varina ?

Raisin (is that from raison d'etre?)
That brings up another puzzling scenario for me. All of the various Team JY members, and I think that group is much larger than it appears on the surface, of late (crucial distinction), have stated that it was LE's pointed interrogation of JY's friends that supposedly led them to contact JY and say, "man, you need a lawyer..." Early in the case--and this is what the press reported as well,--it was stated that JY's stepfather was responsible for JY lawyering up so quickly. Now, Team Jy is going with the friends of JY's advising him to get a lawyer, yada yada. I remember thinking to myself. Self, I said, just how in hades were those cops going to set up the crime scene, assure Cassidy's safety and well being, notify NOK (which it appears they did not do? Big no no to me), rope off the area, get MF calmed down and attended to by medical and or pastoral personnel so that she could be questioned--the hard questions, mind you--by LE. They were doing all of this and yet found time to interview friends of JY? I say no.

liveoutloud
03-28-2007, 08:35 PM
Another point made about that side trip to brevard to get furniture when his friends were expected imo his friend could've helped him with it that night. It wouldn't have been an unreasonable hour by the time he got back.;) Also the info about the Money's canceling coming was for the HC game and not the same couple who was coming to spend the weekend at Michelle and Jasons house.

I for one am convinced the attorney was obtained while still in Brevard. LE first made brief statements saying they had only spoken to Jason briefly on the phone right after he first found out. Then the most recent statement made by Sheriff Harrison he stated Jason was not cooperating and the one time LE did talk to him briefly he referred them to his attorney. He has also said on several occasions that he would like to speak with Jason. Put that with the insiders info on friends telling him right away to get a lawyer and the stories of LE's harsh statements and questions to Jason during the 1st conversation and imo only one (phone) He had his attorney for the NTO.

Feel free to correct any info to mine because I know there's other details not jumping right to mind.


Strach:

I remember having the same questions. Did that article that spoke of JY's "brief" response to LE consist of a phone call or was that in person? I had always thought that he would have gone to the house first and run smack into WCSD, got out of the car and they asked if he was who they thought he was and he replied in the affirmative and then gave them his attorneys name and told them all to have a good day y'all. Now, if I am a LEO, I'm not wearing my happy face right then. As for the furniture = Brevard thing? I think that was one of gojos having a little too much to drink one night and decided he would embellish a bit. It came straight out of left field and maybe it was designed to do just that but as it was it was not credible. Rhett Fussell. JY's friend or is he MY's friend? His commentary on Brevard as planned destination after business meeting. Why would he lie? Or maybe the better question, why would he lie about the lie? Now tonight on CTV they're talking about a luncheon MY had with Rhett a few days before her death. I do remember hearing that, do you? None of what I just posted makes any dang sense. Make the best of it please?

raisincharlie
03-28-2007, 08:48 PM
Raisin (is that from raison d'etre?)
That brings up another puzzling scenario for me. All of the various Team JY members, and I think that group is much larger than it appears on the surface, of late (crucial distinction), have stated that it was LE's pointed interrogation of JY's friends that supposedly led them to contact JY and say, "man, you need a lawyer..." Early in the case--and this is what the press reported as well,--it was stated that JY's stepfather was responsible for JY lawyering up so quickly. Now, Team Jy is going with the friends of JY's advising him to get a lawyer, yada yada. I remember thinking to myself. Self, I said, just how in hades were those cops going to set up the crime scene, assure Cassidy's safety and well being, notify NOK (which it appears they did not do? Big no no to me), rope off the area, get MF calmed down and attended to by medical and or pastoral personnel so that she could be questioned--the hard questions, mind you--by LE. They were doing all of this and yet found time to interview friends of JY? I say no.

Bingo - right on the money. LE had too much else going on to worry about JY's friends unless they went to Meredith's in which case LE would have been perfectly in line to question the snot out of people showing up anywhere near that baby given the circumstances under which she was found.

Utopia
03-28-2007, 08:58 PM
:laugh:
gojo is nogo I've never used that little guy before, but that deserves it! (Beats my penguins!)

Speaking of penguins, Strach, you didn't take the kids did you? If so, they would likely be bored silly, hope you enjoyed it though.

liveoutloud - may I call you LOL? (it seems appropriate:D). You mentioned that you thought the JY team was getting larger but I thought it was actually getting smaller - same people recycled. That Catewhatever sounds an awful lot like mimi:confused:

Kadie
03-28-2007, 09:00 PM
"John" is Gojo, Netbrood, dkjack, or whatever incarnation he feels like being who is a friend of the Young family. He posted his real name there himself and seems to have a real vendetta against RPD if you know who that is. He is a poster here and there who provides useful and accurate info on the case that seems to bother some.

To me that is just craaaaazy??????? Don't get me wrong, I totally agree that you are right on with the theory that "John" is all of those nics and more......but I just can't fathom someone doing that. Guess that must mean I am a little bit sane? :0) Hubby may disagree! LOL

Yes, I also agree that he and the other Camp JY posters totally dislike RPD. Oh well........RPD seems to have a reliable source and if he does end up posting some type of "wrong" information, he admits he made a mistake...and moves on.

I hope OutsidetheBox was correct and an arrest or maybe even some type of info is released on March 31. (which I might add is a Saturday)!

jilly
03-28-2007, 09:01 PM
Just popping in to read. Liveoutloud and Utopia (better late than never) - Welcome!! Good to have you aboard!

Strach - You are never boring!:blowkiss:

I'll comment more later...but in the meantime Liveoutloud - Are you saying you don't think LE notified the Youngs' about the death. I was thinking that LE might have phoned there looking for JY and maybe broke the news to them. Big mistake, I think. But I've mentioned this before. I think at some point the friend(s) called and between them & McIntyre, they decided to get JY a lawyer.

I wouldn't be surprised if LE interviewed one or more of the friends. How that happened I don't know but I think if I remember right there were 20 detectives assigned right away to the case.

Strach - thanks for the info on the friends who were staying. That now makes sense. The guy was apparently a long time friend of JYs and Michelle did not know the wife well. It somehow didn't register with me that this couple replaced the Moneys'.duh!

I wonder if this couple showed up at the Youngs' while LE was setting up the crime scene. I had heard that they found out during the drive to Raleigh & decided to carry on to offer their support.

Kadie
03-28-2007, 09:02 PM
:laugh:
That Catewhatever sounds an awful lot like mimi:confused:

Someone pointed out that on CTV last night. They actually said something like Mimi left at 4:29 and Cate started posting at 5:02. It was an interesting post from someone who doesn't post alot over there. Does anyone remember that?

raisincharlie
03-28-2007, 09:02 PM
To me that is just craaaaazy??????? Don't get me wrong, I totally agree that you are right on with the theory that "John" is all of those nics and more......but I just can't fathom someone doing that. Guess that must mean I am a little bit sane? :0) Hubby may disagree! LOL

Yes, I also agree that he and the other Camp JY posters totally dislike RPD. Oh well........RPD seems to have a reliable source and if he does end up posting some type of "wrong" information, he admits he made a mistake...and moves on.

I hope OutsidetheBox was correct and an arrest or maybe even some type of info is released on March 31. (which I might add is a Saturday)!


Don't worry lovely Kadie - you hang around us long enough, that "little bit sane" will disappear as well :D

Samiya
03-28-2007, 09:03 PM
Bingo - right on the money. LE had too much else going on to worry about JY's friends unless they went to Meredith's in which case LE would have been perfectly in line to question the snot out of people showing up anywhere near that baby given the circumstances under which she was found.

Hey Raisin,

Why am I left thinking..........

:how the heck did LE get through on the cell phone to speak to Jason's mom when his friends were all ringing him telling him to get a Lawyer.:

someone's :liar:

lmao pmsl cack my dacks!

Sami

jake
03-28-2007, 09:04 PM
SNIPPED-------------------

"John" is Gojo, Netbrood, dkjack, or whatever incarnation he feels like being who is a friend of the Young family. He posted his real name there himself and seems to have a real vendetta against RPD if you know who that is. He is a poster here and there who provides useful and accurate info on the case that seems to bother some.

__________________________

Howdy,

Nope, John is not Netbrood. That crazy guy is....someone else. I have to be careful here so I don't get kicked off. But I did want to correct that information.

This is my favorite board because everyone here seems to be serious posters. But I am handicapped because I have been warned already that I will be kicked off if I say the wrong thing or say it with the wrong attitude.

I enjoy reading the comments on this board, though. And I do have information that I could share. But some people think I share information only to gain attention for myself. So I have become a little reluctant to answer questions.

Jake

Kadie
03-28-2007, 09:05 PM
Does anyone have any info about JY's new job? Bud posted over at CTV that he was possibly starting a new job close to Brevard........forget the name of the town, sorry...medical sales I believe it was.

raisincharlie
03-28-2007, 09:07 PM
Hey Raisin,

Why am I left thinking..........

:how the heck did LE get through on the cell phone to speak to Jason's mom when his friends were all ringing him telling him to get a Lawyer.:

someone's :liar:

lmao pmsl cack my dacks!

Sami

You are left thinking because you are rational while trying to understand that which is not rational.

Good question - bet LE called a zillion times and left a voicemail so they could use that later in a search warrant with the probable cause section reading "he was frequently checking his voicemail" :D

Kadie
03-28-2007, 09:08 PM
Don't worry lovely Kadie - you hang around us long enough, that "little bit sane" will disappear as well :D

OH GREAT!!!!!!!!!!! Will forewarn hubby and the rest of the family! Thanks !!

Kadie
03-28-2007, 09:09 PM
__________________________

Howdy,

Nope, John is not Netbrood. That crazy guy is....someone else. I have to be careful here so I don't get kicked off. But I did want to correct that information.

This is my favorite board because everyone here seems to be serious posters. But I am handicapped because I have been warned already that I will be kicked off if I say the wrong thing or say it with the wrong attitude.

I enjoy reading the comments on this board, though. And I do have information that I could share. But some people think I share information only to gain attention for myself. So I have become a little reluctant to answer questions.

Jake

Oh come on Jake........feel free to share!

strach304
03-28-2007, 09:09 PM
Bingo - right on the money. LE had too much else going on to worry about JY's friends unless they went to Meredith's in which case LE would have been perfectly in line to question the snot out of people showing up anywhere near that baby given the circumstances under which she was found.

Let me just add to that if the same friends are the out of towners who showed up anyway after finding out about Michelle on the phone but knew nothing of Jasons new overnight plans to stay at his mothers house what would you think? The fax is a fluke too? I know what I think and I'm not LE.

raisincharlie
03-28-2007, 09:09 PM
OH GREAT!!!!!!!!!!! Will forewarn hubby and the rest of the family! Thanks !!


You are quite welcome !:cool:

Samiya
03-28-2007, 09:11 PM
Howdy,

Nope, John is not Netbrood.

Jake

Jake,

I will stick by you on that one.

Jake definitely wasn't netbrood...fact.

Sami

strach304
03-28-2007, 09:11 PM
__________________________

Howdy,

Nope, John is not Netbrood. That crazy guy is....someone else. I have to be careful here so I don't get kicked off. But I did want to correct that information.

This is my favorite board because everyone here seems to be serious posters. But I am handicapped because I have been warned already that I will be kicked off if I say the wrong thing or say it with the wrong attitude.

I enjoy reading the comments on this board, though. And I do have information that I could share. But some people think I share information only to gain attention for myself. So I have become a little reluctant to answer questions.

Jake

Yes, I know that now. Thank You. :blushing:

liveoutloud
03-28-2007, 09:27 PM
Bingo - right on the money. LE had too much else going on to worry about JY's friends unless they went to Meredith's in which case LE would have been perfectly in line to question the snot out of people showing up anywhere near that baby given the circumstances under which she was found.

I agree. I have heard they had a lot of investigators on the scene so I suppose they could have freed up one or two to interrogate but who? Seems to me their first priority was three-fold. One, make sure that baby was ok. No injuries, no dehydration, etc., that kind of thing. Two, notification of the victims next next of kin (since they had MF). MF would have known JY's phone number. I can see her in my mind's eye right now, pulling out her cell phone to call Jason and the WCSD officers saying gently but by no means indecisively, "no, Ma'am, we'll handle that..." I think MF would have been doing more of the same thing she had done on the 911 call--volunteer any information that came to mind. She was in shock and I'll bet it was evident to the LEO present too. She either knew he was planning on going to Brevard (which is the reason I am thinking he gave her for going over there to retrieve it, extending his arrival back home past MY's return from work time AND planting the alibi seed) or she had his cell phone from the voice mail's he had left or both. In either or any event, LE knew how to contact him. How JY's parents got the information is anybody's guess. Anyway, number three priority was questioning MF. They had to talk her down, you know they did and that would take time. When did they go to MF's house? Was that part of a search that MF gave permission for? Probably. All of this took TIME. Where in here is there time to talk to JY's friends? I don't think there is any.

liveoutloud
03-28-2007, 09:39 PM
Let me just add to that if the same friends are the out of towners who showed up anyway after finding out about Michelle on the phone but knew nothing of Jasons new overnight plans to stay at his mothers house what would you think? The fax is a fluke too? I know what I think and I'm not LE.


Well, who else would the friends be? I know MY and JY had a lot of friends but who would know she had been murdered unless they just happened to drive to her house as MF did? People keep coming up with more and more convoluted theories as to how to get people over to the Young house so that LE could interrogate them roughly enough so that, even though his wife was dead they thought they had better call and warn him about the cops just in case? Would you have done that? Even if friends just dropped by (cuz you know WCSD was not letting MF call anyone--not until JY had been notified) and got met by a not so friendly and maybe a little suspicious sheriff's deputy--would you drive away like a half hour later and say "jeez, find me Jason's cell number man, I gotta tell him to get a lawyer, and I know just the guy...oh, wait dude, maybe he doesn't know Michelle is dead yet? Now what are we gonna do?" I wouldn't do that. But, if we assume for a moment that it's true, those friends from Charlotte who had plans with Jason and Michelle arrived and oops, "honey, are you sure this the right address?" would have blown JY"s alibi out of the water. For both LE AND the friends from Charlotte.

liveoutloud
03-28-2007, 09:40 PM
Jake,

I will stick by you on that one.

Jake definitely wasn't netbrood...fact.

Sami


Sami

You ain't gonna believe this but I believe Netbrood is Jason Young.

Samiya
03-28-2007, 09:44 PM
Sami

You ain't gonna believe this but I believe Netbrood is Jason Young.

Wasn't him either....otherwise I would've given him a grilling that would make him beg LE to interview him :)

Sami

Utopia
03-28-2007, 09:44 PM
Sami

You ain't gonna believe this but I believe Netbrood is Jason Young.

I'm not Sami but I believe it, the same thing crossed my mind when I was reading him and a chill went up my spine.

strach304
03-28-2007, 09:50 PM
LOL, I truly think the vm from Jason to Meredith was the first any of them knew about his side trip to Brevard that day with intentions of spending the night. Yet Le finds out these out of towners weren't told by Jason of his new plans. It's also been stated the friends at MF's that night were the couple from Charlotte. With most of these friend stories and sources some things are safe to assume about the who but I won't say fact of how credible it may be simply because I don't always remember where that info came from.

raisincharlie
03-28-2007, 09:54 PM
Well, who else would the friends be? I know MY and JY had a lot of friends but who would know she had been murdered unless they just happened to drive to her house as MF did? People keep coming up with more and more convoluted theories as to how to get people over to the Young house so that LE could interrogate them roughly enough so that, even though his wife was dead they thought they had better call and warn him about the cops just in case? Would you have done that? Even if friends just dropped by (cuz you know WCSD was not letting MF call anyone--not until JY had been notified) and got met by a not so friendly and maybe a little suspicious sheriff's deputy--would you drive away like a half hour later and say "jeez, find me Jason's cell number man, I gotta tell him to get a lawyer, and I know just the guy...oh, wait dude, maybe he doesn't know Michelle is dead yet? Now what are we gonna do?" I wouldn't do that. But, if we assume for a moment that it's true, those friends from Charlotte who had plans with Jason and Michelle arrived and oops, "honey, are you sure this the right address?" would have blown JY"s alibi out of the water. For both LE AND the friends from Charlotte.

That's an interesting theory. I suspect that somehow Jason may have made the call to the friends coming from out of town himself or they were not told and did arrive at the Birchleaf residence to find the residence taped off. At that point, they may have started calling other friends trying to find out what was going on if known, which should have been NO. They also may have spoken with some of the neighbors or they may have indeed called Jason, not necessarily to say what they saw but to ask about him.

It is possible they did indeed arrive at the house and did ask an officer manning the perimeter. That officer may have told an investigator and the investigator may well have spoken to them and realized exactly as you say - perhaps the trip to Brevard looked funny with friends arriving. LE was mighty suspicious of JY from the begining so this is possible. I seriously doubt any kind of interogation of them was conducted at that point however.

liveoutloud
03-28-2007, 09:59 PM
Exactly. No interrogation of friends. If JY had called them though, wouldn't they have thought that suspicous? C'mon, friendship only goes so far doesn't it? If JY didn't call them and LE probably didn't interrogate them, them lawyering up probably had nothing to do with friends, yes?

strach304
03-28-2007, 10:03 PM
Strach:

I remember having the same questions. Did that article that spoke of JY's "brief" response to LE consist of a phone call or was that in person? I had always thought that he would have gone to the house first and run smack into WCSD, got out of the car and they asked if he was who they thought he was and he replied in the affirmative and then gave them his attorneys name and told them all to have a good day y'all. Now, if I am a LEO, I'm not wearing my happy face right then. As for the furniture = Brevard thing? I think that was one of gojos having a little too much to drink one night and decided he would embellish a bit. It came straight out of left field and maybe it was designed to do just that but as it was it was not credible. Rhett Fussell. JY's friend or is he MY's friend? His commentary on Brevard as planned destination after business meeting. Why would he lie? Or maybe the better question, why would he lie about the lie? Now tonight on CTV they're talking about a luncheon MY had with Rhett a few days before her death. I do remember hearing that, do you? None of what I just posted makes any dang sense. Make the best of it please?

It was the phone call from Brevard not in person. Rhett Fussell was only repeating what Jason told him at the funeral. Yes he was quoted in the paper as saying he just had lunch with Michelle a few days before the murder. The furniture story was to give Jason a reason for going to Brevard last minute so to speak regardless of the other plans he already had. The news reports from early on made it sound as if the trip to his mothers house was convenient to the business meeting. Have no idea why they thought that at the time.

strach304
03-28-2007, 10:10 PM
Jilly, :blowkiss:

Utopia, I was the one bored :D She liked it but now does the Happy feet dance :D

Didn't mean to be rude, Welcome; Utopia, Live out Loud and Kadie! :dance:

raisincharlie
03-28-2007, 10:10 PM
Exactly. No interrogation of friends. If JY had called them though, wouldn't they have thought that suspicous? C'mon, friendship only goes so far doesn't it? If JY didn't call them and LE probably didn't interrogate them, them lawyering up probably had nothing to do with friends, yes?

You have been following the friends at CTV right - they seem pretty focused that JY had nothing to do with it. I'd say friendship only goes so far but sometimes it may be very hard to imagine a friend as a possible murderer no matter what the circumstances are.

No argument about the lawyer issue - I believe this decision was made by those in Brevard and it was made before JY left and maybe completed while enroute. I suspect JY was advised before he ever got to Raleigh to say zero to LE. JMO.

pack_fan
03-28-2007, 10:17 PM
You guys are going to have to slow down for a bit, can't keep up at this pace. Everyone take a one hour break :hand: :hand: :hand:....

strach304
03-28-2007, 10:23 PM
Exactly. No interrogation of friends. If JY had called them though, wouldn't they have thought that suspicous? C'mon, friendship only goes so far doesn't it? If JY didn't call them and LE probably didn't interrogate them, them lawyering up probably had nothing to do with friends, yes?

When you look at Gojo's input none of it makes any sense, this is why; he decided to get the furniture at 9pm the night before and spend the night with friends coming. He couldn't have called them that night or morning and said otherwise because they still came, right? I do think them showing up and not knowing Jasons plans to go to Brevard would have caused LE to ask many things about that because just like the reason for MF to go to the house and coincidentally find her dead sister all ring true of last minute changes and stories not adding up for Jason. Early on they didn't know when the crime was committed either so his being out of town was also a little too convenient right then from their perspective. Of course they asked questions about him.

Utopia
03-28-2007, 10:23 PM
Jilly and Strach thanks so much for the warm welcome. Though I've been registered since the SP case I haven't posted much and this is the first case I've allowed myself to get involved in since SP because I was afraid I'd get sucked in again...and well, here I am - like crumbs to a vacuum cleaner. I've been posting more lately as I come up with new and creative ways to avoid my studies, which is not a good thing so I must keep a handle on it. I enjoy your reading your posts.

Strach - I was bored in parts as well but those male empires sure are impressive!

liveoutloud - WELCOME! You are a great addition!

ETA - I apologize for bring O/T
Jilly, :blowkiss:

Utopia, I was the one bored :D She liked it but now does the Happy feet dance :D

Didn't mean to be rude, Welcome; Utopia, Live out Loud and Kadie! :dance:

Kadie
03-28-2007, 10:27 PM
Jilly, :blowkiss:

Utopia, I was the one bored :D She liked it but now does the Happy feet dance :D

Didn't mean to be rude, Welcome; Utopia, Live out Loud and Kadie! :dance:

Thanks for the welcome. I lurk alot. Feel somewhat "intimidated" when I read all of your posts....you're all sooooo smart! Seriously, your theories are great, posters are nice, so much nicer than other boards. I really enjoy lurking and posting!

Justice for MY, CY and baby boy Y.

Utopia
03-28-2007, 10:29 PM
Oops, sorry Kadie, didn't mean to leave you out. WELCOME!

Thanks for the welcome. I lurk alot. Feel somewhat "intimidated" when I read all of your posts....you're all sooooo smart! Seriously, your theories are great, posters are nice, so much nicer than other boards. I really enjoy lurking and posting!

Justice for MY, CY and baby boy Y.

strach304
03-28-2007, 10:31 PM
You have been following the friends at CTV right - they seem pretty focused that JY had nothing to do with it. I'd say friendship only goes so far but sometimes it may be very hard to imagine a friend as a possible murderer no matter what the circumstances are.

No argument about the lawyer issue - I believe this decision was made by those in Brevard and it was made before JY left and maybe completed while enroute. I suspect JY was advised before he ever got to Raleigh to say zero to LE. JMO.

IMO he probably called LE at the number left for him after he got up off his knees or crawled in, whatever. Didn't like the questions directed to him about his current location, change of plans, document, etc. and said speak with my attorney all around 3 something, then retained a lawyer. All the friends and step-father hooey, accusatory cops has been told by who? There was a poster a long time ago on ctv that said if Jason was having an affair he'd then wonder about his guilt too. Right after that affair was confirmed in the news a lot of so-called doubters stopped posting and defending him.

ETA: About the step-father, Jason imo got off the phone and said that they were accusing him and it's possible his family knew there were marital problems and so the step-father started making calls for legal advice or a law firm referral. Maybe?

raisincharlie
03-28-2007, 10:35 PM
:laugh:


You guys are going to have to slow down for a bit, can't keep up at this pace. Everyone take a one hour break :hand: :hand: :hand:....



Catch us if you can :p

Kadie
03-28-2007, 10:36 PM
When you look at Gojo's input none of it makes any sense, this is why; he decided to get the furniture at 9pm the night before and spend the night with friends coming. He couldn't have called them that night or morning and said otherwise because they still came, right? I do think them showing up and not knowing Jasons plans to go to Brevard would have caused LE to ask many things about that because just like the reason for MF to go to the house and coincidentally find her dead sister all ring true of last minute changes and stories not adding up for Jason. Early on they didn't know when the crime was committed either so his being out of town was also a little too convenient right then from their perspective. Of course they asked questions about him.

Great post and ITA. Since its been posted that this couple were JY's friends--why would he expect his pregnant wife to entertain them for a night just so he could pick up furniture??? A "normal" (and I use that term loosely) would choose another time to pick up furniture. BTW, what type of furniture was it? Did Gojo ever say? Was it really that important??? I'm sorry but I tend to think things through in a very simple and logical approach (drives my family crazy sometimes)....was it something the Youngs needed RIGHT NOW? i.e...a bed for CY?? Gojo made it sound like (to me anyways) that it was some type of furniture that they had to have RIGHT NOW.
I know that my hubby has many friends from HS and college.....I don't know them well. If he were to say to me that he was staying w/ Mom and I had to entertain them for a night (and I am not pregnant nor have a 2 yr old toddler) I would still be annoyed. Not that I couldn't entertain them or wouldn't ......but they are HIS friends.......they came to see him, to party and to catch up.
Okay.......that's my 2 cents. :)

Kadie
03-28-2007, 10:39 PM
Oops, sorry Kadie, didn't mean to leave you out. WELCOME!

Thanks!

I've been around. Posting alot more tonight for some reason.


O/T: I'm following the Tara Lynn Grant case as well as its in Michigan where I live. Crazy stuff!

Samiya
03-28-2007, 10:42 PM
I'd like to know what the 'furniture' was

:HappyBday
Happy Aussie Birthday Cassidy!

Sami

raisincharlie
03-28-2007, 10:43 PM
Thanks for the welcome. I lurk alot. Feel somewhat "intimidated" when I read all of your posts....you're all sooooo smart! Seriously, your theories are great, posters are nice, so much nicer than other boards. I really enjoy lurking and posting!

Justice for MY, CY and baby boy Y.

Kadie,

Don't be intimidated - no need for that whatsoever !:)

strach304
03-28-2007, 10:43 PM
Also forgot to mention all the extra driving involved. Lets also go through that again. RC, I know you have the time if not distance memorized :) Hotel location still bugs me to no end. Still no idea where the meeting was but he definitely got gas in Duffield. Brevard back to Raleigh. :(

Sorry Pack_Fan, trying not to overlook anyone's post specifically about mine or to me. Guess Jake has nothing nice to say so he's not gonna say anything. :)

strach304
03-28-2007, 10:46 PM
Kadie,

Don't be intimidated - no need for that whatsoever !:)

She's right though this is the smart board, that was my first impression. Also the nice and sane board. Will somebody go find our Scandi? Where is she?

Kadie
03-28-2007, 10:48 PM
Kadie,

Don't be intimidated - no need for that whatsoever !:)

Thanks RC. Didn't mean that in a bad way........I love all of your posts.

I guess I am starting to feel comfortable now after lurking for awhile....either that or its the 2 glasses of chardonnay I have had since I came home from work tonight. I am a social worker and today was kinda ugly.....comes w/the job I guess!

I did notice too that "Jake" only posted once tonight!!

pack_fan
03-28-2007, 10:49 PM
OK, seriously, I think there was mention of an interview on the phone with JY's family when they broke the news. LE said they spoke briefly to JY on the phone on the way back to raleigh and he immediately referred them to his lawyer. No doubt in my mind he had counsel before leaving Brevard and had nothing to do with friends. ITA with all of you that LE had much more to do than call JY's buddies and ask them any questions.

Obviously they would look at the husband first. Common knowledge, so I don't think that was a huge deal. I'm sure LE thought it was suspicious that he was out of town but surely could have been coincidence. Something tells me there was something in the house that implicated JY immediately. Not that there was no signs of forced entry but something else, something personal. The wedding photos come to mind immediately but can't say for sure. For some reason, I think those pictures are going to be a key factor as well as his big old feet :) .

Kadie
03-28-2007, 10:49 PM
Also forgot to mention all the extra driving involved. Lets also go through that again. RC, I know you have the time if not distance memorized :) Hotel location still bugs me to no end. Still no idea where the meeting was but he definitely got gas in Duffield. Brevard back to Raleigh. :(

Sorry Pack_Fan, trying not to overlook anyone's post specifically about mine or to me. Guess Jake has nothing nice to say so he's not gonna say anything. :)

Good idea to go over that again. I'm a little confused w/ the meeting location, receipts found, hotel location etc.

strach304
03-28-2007, 10:56 PM
That's an interesting theory. I suspect that somehow Jason may have made the call to the friends coming from out of town himself or they were not told and did arrive at the Birchleaf residence to find the residence taped off. At that point, they may have started calling other friends trying to find out what was going on if known, which should have been NO. They also may have spoken with some of the neighbors or they may have indeed called Jason, not necessarily to say what they saw but to ask about him.

It is possible they did indeed arrive at the house and did ask an officer manning the perimeter. That officer may have told an investigator and the investigator may well have spoken to them and realized exactly as you say - perhaps the trip to Brevard looked funny with friends arriving. LE was mighty suspicious of JY from the begining so this is possible. I seriously doubt any kind of interogation of them was conducted at that point however.

A poster named sosad on ctv posted that someone in Raleigh called them while they were in route and decided to still come. If these are the same friends said to be at Merediths when Jason did arrive I'll bet they were questioned by LE. I know I would've. That poster said they don't know if they were aware of Jasons change of plans. You may not have seen it because you were out of town at the time, maybe? I haven't seen that poster acting like they wouldn't be credible and that did seem to be all they do know. It's a jump though for those who are saying it was the friends who were "interrogated" by LE to tell Jason to get a lawyer. If they did speak with him by phone he probably asked them what LE wanted to know.

Kadie
03-28-2007, 11:00 PM
The wedding photos come to mind immediately but can't say for sure. For some reason, I think those pictures are going to be a key factor as well as his big old feet :) .

I was going to post this a while back when it was on topic. My hubby was married before and when he first found out that wife had cheated on him...guess what was the first thing he did??? Yep, he went for the wedding photos on the wall and on the desk. He said he broke the glass and actually tore up the picture then threw it on the floor. Now, Hubby is not violent......but they had been married for less than 6 months when he starting finding out alot of ugly things about first wife.....
So I was wondering.....if MY found out that night about MM and JY.....did she pull the wedding photos down, smash the glass, tear them up, throw them in the garbage? Or is it an opinion that JY himself did something to the photos? I've always thought it was MY that tore up the photos after she found out about the affair with MM...so then the photos were lying on the floor of the bedroom when she was murdered and so they had blood spatter, etc. on the glass/photos.
JMO of course.........anything is possible!

strach304
03-28-2007, 11:02 PM
Pack_Fan, wasn't that his mother they spoke with on the way back to Raleigh? It was his phone they called though?

The out of town coincidence with the PC document, no way for them to know he had been out of town all night until they asked. Cassidy there unharmed.

raisincharlie
03-28-2007, 11:11 PM
Good idea to go over that again. I'm a little confused w/ the meeting location, receipts found, hotel location etc.

Receipts from the SUV:

1. Get It Market - gas 11/3
2. Handee Hugos #89 - gas 11/2
3. Hampton Hotel - 11/2

Through computer sleuthing - several differing posters found a Get it Market in Duffield Virginia. Dominique actually established contact with the store manager who confirmed LE had been there to look at surveillance tapes. Jy was on the tape.

Handee Hugos #89 is located in Raleigh, north of the Young home near the inner circle of Raleigh.

RPD checked various Hamptons through a rather ingenious method and found a listing for JY at the Hillsville Virginia Hampton on 11/2


The actual location of the business meeting has not been divulged to this point by any source (makes one wonder if there really was a meeting - aye ?).