Michelle Young, pregnant mom, murdered Part 15.

[Samiya]

I know there's a few new posters coming in for this forum, so Welcome. Yes that includes you Jake :)

Please read the Terms of Service as we were reminded to last night.

http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44926

And I'm sure we can all go back to being on even ground.

Sami

[SueY]

Thanks, Samiya.
May the rest of this week bring an arrest or at least some news.
RIP Michelle Young and babes.

[Taximom]

Thanks, Samiya.
May the rest of this week bring an arrest or at least some news.
RIP Michelle Young and babes.

Amen to that.

[Barney Fife]

I have reason to believe to this day LE is still trying to match fingerprints in the house. Is it really necessary for a good case to have known matches for all prints in a large home? We know lE printed all the "inter circle" that have been in the home. In addition, LE went to Brevard to obtain prints from those friends and family. If they still have some "phantom prints" could that be a big defense issue the DA would want to over come before an arrest is made ?

[DEPUTYDAWG]

Sami,
My apologies, I posted on Part #14 this morning, and I don't know how to move it over to here.

Sooooo...just bumping this thread up this morning!

DD

[less0305]

I have reason to believe to this day LE is still trying to match fingerprints in the house. Is it really necessary for a good case to have known matches for all prints in a large home? We know lE printed all the "inter circle" that have been in the home. In addition, LE went to Brevard to obtain prints from those friends and family. If they still have some "phantom prints" could that be a big defense issue the DA would want to over come before an arrest is made ?

Oh, absolutely. The DA is going to want those prints ID'd before a trial, because that just leaves a huge hole for any defense attorney to say - "the mystery prints are your killer, not my client."

[Scout]

Is Jake still a registered member here? If so, I'd like to ask him a question regarding Jason's Ford Explorer.

When the Explorer was handed over by LE to Jason's attorney, was all original equipment still intact? Specifically, was the rear seat in the vehicle? Had any upholstery been cut away? TIA

[Utopia]

Hey Scout! I solved your riddle...I hope I made your day!

Have a good one.

Utopia

ETA: I put the answer in the comments but now I'm wondering if I should have as I don't want to spoil it for others. Feel free to remove it if you like. And it wasn't that easy, I thought you did a great job! Very creative.

[Barney Fife]

Oh, absolutely. The DA is going to want those prints ID'd before a trial, because that just leaves a huge hole for any defense attorney to say - "the mystery prints are your killer, not my client."


Since there are "unmatched" prints in the home to this day, it may be a while before there is an arrest. Sure hope they have a pile more to make this a moot point at trial.

[DEPUTYDAWG]

Since there are "unmatched" prints in the home to this day, it may be a while before there is an arrest. Sure hope they have a pile more to make this a moot point at trial.

IMO,

Depends where these unmatched prints were found and collected. Do they appear to be relevant to where the crime scene was? I.e., if there's unmatched prints in the kitchen, and there didn't appear to be a struggle downstairs, they may not be as critical to the investigation as if they were found in the MB or close proximity to MY's body. LE would want them all tested and on file, but the different prints will have varying degrees of importance.

Yes, they'll need more than just fingerprints to take a case forward. But the finding of unknown prints near MY or in critical areas of the determined crime scene would be more disturbing to investigators, which would mean more time. Versus, not finding unknown prints near MY or the actual crime scene.

ETA: Oops, just reread your post, and I'm assuming you already knew what I posted. You were making a statement rather than asking a question. Sorry, I should probably just delete my words, but didn't want you to have read it and thought I was talking beneath you or anything. Sorry. Soooo, yes, agree it takes longer to run all the prints through AFIS, etc.

[jilly]

Since there are "unmatched" prints in the home to this day, it may be a while before there is an arrest. Sure hope they have a pile more to make this a moot point at trial.


Well like someone suggested at CTV - how many foreign fingerprints would you expect in the master bedroom and master bath.

[jilly]

DD my dear! Looks like we were thinking at the same time - only you of course have put more detail into your thoughts, hehe. Hey you're really rockin' on this forum! I don't think I've been on a forum with you before and I am really enjoying your insight and contribution!!:)

[DEPUTYDAWG]

DD my dear! Looks like we were thinking at the same time - only you of course have put more detail into your thoughts, hehe. Hey you're really rockin' on this forum! I don't think I've been on a forum with you before and I am really enjoying your insight and contribution!!:)

Hey Miss Jilly :woohoo:

Really, we've never really been on the same forum? I know we posted "elsewhere" together, but I guess I just assumed we did other WS forums together, as well. It feels like it, I'm always so glad to "see you around :crazy: "

Yes, we were thinking alike on fingerprints.

[Barney Fife]

Well like someone suggested at CTV - how many foreign fingerprints would you expect in the master bedroom and master bath.

I know WCSO is very interested in talking to anyone who has been in the house so they can look at prints. The investigator was not specific as to "unmatched" print locations. I guess we should assume the prints are in the area of the actual crime scene.

[DEPUTYDAWG]

I know WCSO is very interested in talking to anyone who has been in the house so they can look at prints. The investigator was not specific as to "unmatched" print locations. I guess we should assume the prints are in the area of the actual crime scene.

I find that very interesting.

[Barney Fife]

I find that very interesting.

I did too. This investigator trolls CTV and asked about someone's identity that had been in the Young's home. He jumped right on it Saturday and said "We are also in a process of identifying anybody who has been in the house so we can obtain what are called elimination fingerprints to try to account for all fingerprint impressions located in the house"

[DEPUTYDAWG]

I did too. This investigator trolls CTV and asked about someone's identity that had been in the Young's home. He jumped right on it Saturday and said "We are also in a process of identifying anybody who has been in the house so we can obtain what are called elimination fingerprints to try to account for all fingerprint impressions located in the house"

Well, although that takes a long time, good for them! Glad to hear they're being thorough.

I don't post over at CTV, but I sometimes sit back and watch as the different factions fight it out as to whether LE scours the message boards, etc. as part of investigations. Certainly, I don't personally know about WCSO or this specific case...but with absolute 100% conviction, I can say I know many in LE that do indeed, including follow-up in traffic fatality accidents. The spider webs from myspace, etc. can be wonderful investigative leads. ;)

[DEPUTYDAWG]

I did too. This investigator trolls CTV and asked about someone's identity that had been in the Young's home. He jumped right on it Saturday and said "We are also in a process of identifying anybody who has been in the house so we can obtain what are called elimination fingerprints to try to account for all fingerprint impressions located in the house"

And following up...were you implying that someone had posted at CTV that they had personally been in the home? I don't venture over there on a consistent basis. So, I don't know who said that. (Should I guess? PM me, if you'd rather.) I just wanted to make sure I understood that correctly.

Who the he!!, who would be so intrinsically (sp?) involved in the case, would actually post such a thing? That's what I don't get. Too much at risk. Once an individual might be called as a witness in such an important case, the less said the better. Why post it on the internet? I don't think there's a positive to that, just a possible negative. JMHO

DD

[Barney Fife]

And following up...were you implying that someone had posted at CTV that they had personally been in the home? I don't venture over there on a consistent basis. So, I don't know who said that. (Should I guess? PM me, if you'd rather.) I just wanted to make sure I understood that correctly.

Who the he!!, who would be so intrinsically (sp?) involved in the case, would actually post such a thing? That's what I don't get. Too much at risk. Once an individual might be called as a witness in such an important case, the less said the better. Why post it on the internet? I don't think there's a positive to that, just a possible negative. JMHO

DD

I feel more comfortable PM the details Deputy

[strach304]

One person over there that originally claimed to be in the house before the murder was JTF. Can't remember for sure about the one that dismissed the babygate idea because they were in the house many times they said but I'm thinking that was Concerned Citizen and that was a long time ago. The friend that said she was there with her dogs that kept barking at something a few weeks before the murder. I know some morphed that info into it being the GA friend who was there that night and felt like they were being watched.

BF, are you saying that investigator posted what you wrote at ctv on Saturday?

ETA: Also someone contacted a poster on that board that reads but doesn't want to post there that said she had been in the house. That was posted on the first page of Saturday's thread by Springflowers.

[Barney Fife]

One person over there that originally claimed to be in the house before the murder was JTF. Can't remember for sure about the one that dismissed the babygate idea because they were in the house many times they said but I'm thinking that was Concerned Citizen and that was a long time ago. The friend that said she was there with her dogs that kept barking at something a few weeks before the murder. I know some morphed that info into it being the GA friend who was there that night and felt like they were being watched.

BF, are you saying that investigator posted what you wrote at ctv on Saturday?

ETA: Also someone contacted a poster on that board that reads but doesn't want to post there that said she had been in the house. That was posted on the first page of Saturday's thread by Springflowers.

You are on the right track strach304.....

[FactsareFacts]

You are on the right track strach304.....


Well I was just reading over at CTV:doh:

Wont be joining to post from what I am reading. It's like a school yard over there.

Someone named Mimiof5 is saying MF must not be very upset about Michelle's death because she laughed and apparently kissed her boyfriend at the funeral. If I am reading her posts correctly I think she is saying MF killed Michelle.:mad:

[Barney Fife]

Well I was just reading over at CTV:doh:

Wont be joining to post from what I am reading. It's like a school yard over there.

Someone named Mimiof5 is saying MF must not be very upset about Michelle's death because she laughed and apparently kissed her boyfriend at the funeral. If I am reading her posts correctly I think she is saying MF killed Michelle.:mad:

Mimi is a legend @ CTV in her own mind.

[FactsareFacts]

Mimi is a legend @ CTV in her own mind.


I guess I should read over there a bit more. This is the first I have seen anyone imply MF might have killed Michelle. I don't believe that for a minute and I think it's terrible she is posting that.:mad:

[Samiya]

I guess I should read over there a bit more. This is the first I have seen anyone imply MF might have killed Michelle. I don't believe that for a minute and I think it's terrible she is posting that.:mad:

Meredith has been everything from implied to outright accused of being Michelle's killer over yonder.

Sami

[FactsareFacts]

Meredith has been everything from implied to outright accused of being Michelle's killer over yonder.

Sami

Wow I see that. Have been reading some old threads over there and I am just amazed. I don't understand why anyone would think that. The Sheriff has never even mentioned such a thing. I don't think there are any search warrants for anything pertaining to Merideth are there?

[jilly]

Wow I see that. Have been reading some old threads over there and I am just amazed. I don't understand why anyone would think that. The Sheriff has never even mentioned such a thing. I don't think there are any search warrants for anything pertaining to Merideth are there?

Oh yeah Facts there's more - like it was a lucky break that Meredith got that message from JY because it then gave her justification for being in the house. And let's not forget that Meredith and Cassidy sat & watched The Lion King during the morning eating jellybeans. Oh - and Meredith didn't sound concerned at all on the 911 tape.

At least I think that's what they were saying. I try to skim through it all.

[FactsareFacts]

Oh yeah Facts there's more - like it was a lucky break that Meredith got that message from JY because it then gave her justification for being in the house. And let's not forget that Meredith and Cassidy sat & watched The Lion King during the morning eating jellybeans. Oh - and Meredith didn't sound concerned at all on the 911 tape.

At least I think that's what they were saying. I try to skim through it all.


If I joined over there I think I would get banned the first day! They seem like the type of people who would send Scott Peterson fan mail! I had no idea there were people saying Merideth might be the killer. Wonder if they are family or friends of Jason? Either way it's a horrible accusation IMO. :behindbar

[Utopia]

Oh yeah Facts there's more - like it was a lucky break that Meredith got that message from JY because it then gave her justification for being in the house. And let's not forget that Meredith and Cassidy sat & watched The Lion King during the morning eating jellybeans. Oh - and Meredith didn't sound concerned at all on the 911 tape.

At least I think that's what they were saying. I try to skim through it all.

Jilly, don't forget to tell Facts about the fishbats...:waitasec:

Facts, I tried to warn ya - schoolyard is a perfect description

[happy2bn10ec]

I guess I should read over there a bit more. This is the first I have seen anyone imply MF might have killed Michelle. I don't believe that for a minute and I think it's terrible she is posting that.:mad:

Don't waste your time - it is an asylum. I tried it when WS was down. It's not worth wading through the muck to get a rumor or two.

Mimi's mantra is that MF did it.

[FactsareFacts]

Jilly, don't forget to tell Facts about the fishbats...:waitasec:

Facts, I tried to warn ya - schoolyard is a perfect description


Fishbats? :confused: Don't want to sound stupid, but what are they?

Mimi is like no poster I have ever read before. She words things as if they are facts. She makes many posts that at first glance made me think she had something to do with law for her profession, but the more I read the more thats just funny. :D

[Utopia]

If you really want to know Facts, go back over there, with wading boots and armour, and read the last few pages from last night...I can't relive the experience and I don't want to take up valuable WS space - it was entertaining for awhile though.

I do love their runaway chicken, he gets a lot of exercise over there.

Have fun:D

Utopia

Fishbats? :confused: Don't want to sound stupid, but what are they?

Mimi is like no poster I have ever read before. She words things as if they are facts. She makes many posts that at first glance made me think she had something to do with law for her profession, but the more I read the more thats just funny. :D

[FactsareFacts]

If you really want to know Facts, go back over there, with wading boots and armour, and read the last few pages from last night...I can't relive the experience and I don't want to take up valuable WS space - it was entertaining for awhile though.

I do love their runaway chicken, he gets a lot of exercise over there.

Have fun:D

Utopia
:laugh: :laugh: Oh wow!!! They need a flock of chickens for an icon after reading that. I have to admit I laughed out loud! I still don't know WTH a fishbat is though. Someone said you use it to hit the fish on the head; which I guess could be true. Someone else posted it was a cross between a fish and a bat!!! Can't say I have ever seen anything that would resemble a fishbat in my life though. Crazyness over there for sure! :D

[Utopia]

I don't know what's worse, my reading through all that last night, or that I actually googled fishbat :loser:...and yes, I laughed out loud too. I think in fact its both a fish conker outer and an exotic type of fish (not from NC though!). I just hope that wasn't the weapon that killed Michelle Young.

On a more "on topic" subject, they were having some interesting discussion over there about whether or not the 911 tape would be admitted in court as evidence, which is something I was wondering about. This may have already been discussed here previously but I've only read about half of the threads in this forum, so I may have missed it. It seems some think it will and some not - for various reasons of course, depending on who they think committed the murder. I hope it does get in.

Along similar lines, I wondered if Cassidy was interviewed by an appropriate expert soon after her harrowing experience, or if she has had counseling since. If so, might that person(s) be called to testify. My guess is that she may be considered too young for what she has to say to have any real value - but you never know. (note: "too Young" - unintentional pun, i.e. she could have been reprogrammed as well)

Late night ramblings...(yikes it 2:30am here, I better hit the sack).

G'nite all - Utopia

:laugh: :laugh: Oh wow!!! They need a flock of chickens for an icon after reading that. I have to admit I laughed out loud! I still don't know WTH a fishbat is though. Someone said you use it to hit the fish on the head; which I guess could be true. Someone else posted it was a cross between a fish and a bat!!! Can't say I have ever seen anything that would resemble a fishbat in my life though. Crazyness over there for sure! :D

[Smugshots]

Last night Jake suggested MY was seeing the therapist concerning something that may have happened over the summer, some questioned why MY would then wait till Oct. time frame to see someone if something happened during the summer. She may not have had a choice. Sometimes it takes 6-8 weeks or longer to get into a therapist. Many are booked and don’t except new patients I have known 2 people that have experienced this.

[Utopia]

Exactly. Not only that but it may have taken time for her to decide to seek counseling. I sought counseling through my work's EAP several years ago and it WAS months before I finally decided the problem wasn't going to go away without some help. The other part of that discussion was whether or not Michelle chose that particular therapist because she specializes in transgender issues. I know that when I finally made the phone call, I was not asked the specific nature of the "problem" but I was asked whether it was personal, financial or work related and they referred me to a particular counselor from there - I was not given a choice or a list to choose from.

Utopia

P.S. Where is everybody?:confused:

Last night Jake suggested MY was seeing the therapist concerning something that may have happened over the summer, some questioned why MY would then wait till Oct. time frame to see someone if something happened during the summer. She may not have had a choice. Sometimes it takes 6-8 weeks or longer to get into a therapist. Many are booked and don’t except new patients I have known 2 people that have experienced this.

[Bee Charmer]

Good morning everyone. Very nice to see DeputyDawg here, and agree with the very good observation about why Michelle was seeking the advice of a therapist. The more I think about this, the more I am convinced DD is correct. Have we ever heard that Michelle was thrilled
about the impending birth?

BTW, so nice to have this place back up and running. An oasis from the
gameplaying at court tv.

[DEPUTYDAWG]

Good morning everyone. Very nice to see DeputyDawg here, and agree with the very good observation about why Michelle was seeking the advice of a therapist. The more I think about this, the more I am convinced DD is correct. Have we ever heard that Michelle was thrilled
about the impending birth?

BTW, so nice to have this place back up and running. An oasis from the
gameplaying at court tv.

Good morning, Bee, and thanks.
No, I haven't read anything such as comments from her family members, etc. about her being very excited about the impending birth. I would think maybe (but not necessarily) that her closest of friends may have known if she was emotionally conflicted about it. Those therapist's notes should be interesting, even if all that comes out is just the key subject matter. I almost hope all the smaller details don't come out.

Blessings to Michelle, her unborn son, and Cassidy....

[DEPUTYDAWG]

Who the heck is NetBrood over at CTV?

[raisincharlie]

Who the heck is NetBrood over at CTV?


Not what it claims to be :D

[FactsareFacts]

Who the heck is NetBrood over at CTV?

Sybil???:crazy: LMAO

[raisincharlie]

Sybil???:crazy: LMAO

I'm skeerd - I think there is a whole troop of Sybils related to this.:)

[DEPUTYDAWG]

Not what it claims to be :D

Nahhhh, really???? :laugh:

:doh: :doh: :doh: :doh:

Somebody's prescription needs to be refilled, IMO :silenced:

[DEPUTYDAWG]

Sybil???:crazy: LMAO

:laugh: :laugh:

[FactsareFacts]

Nahhhh, really???? :laugh:

:doh: :doh: :doh: :doh:

Somebody's prescription needs to be refilled, IMO :silenced:

Yes and maybe the dosage upped too! :p

[Bee Charmer]

Who the heck is NetBrood over at CTV?

I think it's a good possibility that more then one person is
using the nic "netbrood" to play games with the forum. Those people, imo, should be very ashamed of themselves.

[DEPUTYDAWG]

I think it's a good possibility that more then one person is
using the nic "netbrood" to play games with the forum. Those people, imo, should be very ashamed of themselves.

I agree, I think it's disgusting. It's clearly a game to whomever....

[FactsareFacts]

I agree, I think it's disgusting. It's clearly a game to whomever....


Between the crazy posts from Netbrood and the posts from that Mimi about Merideth I think CTV must be like a magnet for .....well those whose elevators don't go to the top floor?:eek:

[DEPUTYDAWG]

Between the crazy posts from Netbrood and the posts from that Mimi about Merideth I think CTV must be like a magnet for .....well those whose elevators don't go to the top floor?:eek:

...or those who get stuck on an escalator when the power goes off??? :eek:

[Barney Fife]

Between the crazy posts from Netbrood and the posts from that Mimi about Merideth I think CTV must be like a magnet for .....well those whose elevators don't go to the top floor?:eek:


Careful not offend the new poster "Jake".
"Jake" and Mimi are best buds. Where do you think she comes up
with her so called "inside material " ?

:dance:

[Samiya]

Well, it looks like I am Poppet apparently.

LMAO!

Sami

[DEPUTYDAWG]

Careful not offend the new poster "Jake".
"Jake" and Mimi are best buds. Where do you think she comes up
with her so called "inside material " ?

:dance:

Wondered why Jake didn't come visit us last night....

P.S. Did you happen to get my PM? Interested in your thoughts about that question I posed. TIA! :blowkiss:

[DEPUTYDAWG]

Well, it looks like I am Poppet apparently.

LMAO!

Sami

:slap:

I need a new nic, too!

[FactsareFacts]

Careful not offend the new poster "Jake".
"Jake" and Mimi are best buds. Where do you think she comes up
with her so called "inside material " ?

:dance:


Jake that was posting here the other night?:confused: He is buddies with Mimi or he is Mimi over there? This is like a soap opera:D

[Barney Fife]

Wondered why Jake didn't come visit us last night....

P.S. Did you happen to get my PM? Interested in your thoughts about that question I posed. TIA! :blowkiss:

Yes, see reply

[FactsareFacts]

Well, it looks like I am Poppet apparently.

LMAO!

Sami


OK are you the same Samiya that posts at CTV? If you are, you crack me up with some of your funny comments.:p I guess humor helps to deal with the craziness.

[Samiya]

OK are you the same Samiya that posts at CTV? If you are, you crack me up with some of your funny comments.:p I guess humor helps to deal with the craziness.

Yep, that's me :)

I can't help it over there........with all the brooding going on.

Sami

[nanandjim]

I know WCSO is very interested in talking to anyone who has been in the house so they can look at prints. The investigator was not specific as to "unmatched" print locations. I guess we should assume the prints are in the area of the actual crime scene.
I would think that it may be a near impossible task to match any and all prints found in the home. How old is the home? How many owners were there prior to the Youngs? There could be all sorts of unknown prints left in the home by the previous owners, their relatives, guests, housekeepers, etc. These prints could even be in the proximity of the murder scene.

[Bee Charmer]

Careful not offend the new poster "Jake".
"Jake" and Mimi are best buds. Where do you think she comes up
with her so called "inside material " ?

:dance:

Any facts to support that statement, or are you just saying it
because at times Mimi appears to agree with some of what "Jake" posts?

[FactsareFacts]

Any facts to support that statement, or are you just saying it
because at times Mimi appears to agree with some of what "Jake" posts?


Has Jake posted at CTV? Did he post anything about Merideth being the killer too? I just don't get where that comes from. I was tempted to register last night when I read Mimi's comments about how Merideth must not be very upset about Michelle's death because she supposedly laughed and hugged her boyfriend ("African Boyfriend" thats just wrong on many levels) at the funeral.:(

[jake]

Has Jake posted at CTV? Did he post anything about Merideth being the killer too? I just don't get where that comes from. I was tempted to register last night when I read Mimi's comments about how Merideth must not be very upset about Michelle's death because she supposedly laughed and hugged her boyfriend ("African Boyfriend" thats just wrong on many levels) at the funeral.:(

Howdy,

The moderator here told me he doesn't like my posting style, so I will not post my opinions any more and hope I will not get kicked off. Not angry about anything...the moderator should be in charge of who posts and how.

Several of you have asked about MF and the accusations against her. Since she is not a suspect nor even a POI, those accusations, I reckon, have no place on a message board. Just the Facts discovered that when kicked off CTV and all posts burned.

But for those interested in history, including many comments by JTF, an early insider, I am posting a link below to a blog and posting board by Observations of a Misfit. The earliest entries about this case are from November 10 or thereabout. http://www.mermaidsinging.com/2006/11/trotting_out_the_constitutiona.htm#comment-2351

--Jake

[FactsareFacts]

Howdy,

The moderator here told me he doesn't like my posting style, so I will not post my opinions any more and hope I will not get kicked off. Not angry about anything...the moderator should be in charge of who posts and how.

Several of you have asked about MF and the accusations against her. Since she is not a suspect nor even a POI, those accusations, I reckon, have no place on a message board. Just the Facts discovered that when kicked off CTV and all posts burned.

But for those interested in history, including many comments by JTF, an early insider, I am posting a link below to a blog and posting board by Observations of a Misfit. The earliest entries about this case are from November 10 or thereabout. http://www.mermaidsinging.com/2006/11/trotting_out_the_constitutiona.htm#comment-2351

--Jake


Well I am very happy to hear that you feel that way about Merideth's involvement Jake. For the record I truly hope Jason did not do this because Cassidy would lose both parents and she has been thru enough. Thank you for the link, I will check that out. Wonder why Mimi's posts about Merideth aren't burned too?

[raisincharlie]

I would think that it may be a near impossible task to match any and all prints found in the home. How old is the home? How many owners were there prior to the Youngs? There could be all sorts of unknown prints left in the home by the previous owners, their relatives, guests, housekeepers, etc. These prints could even be in the proximity of the murder scene.

nanandjim,

The house was built in 1991 and there have been four previous owners prior to the Youngs. In addition it has been said that the Youngs entertained friends on numerous occasions. Yes, I am sure it is a fairly complicated process of identifying prints within the home.

Hope you are doing well !

[pack_fan]

nanandjim,

The house was built in 1991 and there have been four previous owners prior to the Youngs. In addition it has been said that the Youngs entertained friends on numerous occasions. Yes, I am sure it is a fairly complicated process of identifying prints within the home.

Hope you are doing well !


Welcome home rc.

How long will prints stay in tact so to speak. Assuming a print was left in a certain location undisturbed, would it remain there and be able to be identified for a month, year, 5, 10, since 1991?

I am also assuming that they are looking for prints in the master bed/bath, all entry points, and other critical locations. Not every single room in the home, correct?

[nanandjim]

nanandjim,

The house was built in 1991 and there have been four previous owners prior to the Youngs. In addition it has been said that the Youngs entertained friends on numerous occasions. Yes, I am sure it is a fairly complicated process of identifying prints within the home.

Hope you are doing well !

Hey RC. I am doing well. Thanks for asking. :) I think that it is pretty much a foregone conclusion that LE has narrowed the list of suspect(s). ;)

Scandi said, "I think Michelle told the therapist about a threat on her life from someone, and she was scared to death it might come true and didn't know how to address the problem."

I tend to agree. I think Jason could have made ominous threats to Michelle that she may have mentioned to the therapist. I believe that the therapist has information that is directly tied to the murderer. I think that it is just another nail in Jason's coffin. I hope and pray that the police are able to piece it all together and find justice for Michelle.

[nanandjim]

Welcome home rc.

How long will prints stay in tact so to speak. Assuming a print was left in a certain location undisturbed, would it remain there and be able to be identified for a month, year, 5, 10, since 1991?

I am also assuming that they are looking for prints in the master bed/bath, all entry points, and other critical locations. Not every single room in the home, correct?

I know that this question is not to me, but I thought that there was no way to tell the age of fingerprints. Also, I would assume that fingerprints could remain intact forever if left undisturbed.

[raisincharlie]

Welcome home rc.

How long will prints stay in tact so to speak. Assuming a print was left in a certain location undisturbed, would it remain there and be able to be identified for a month, year, 5, 10, since 1991?

I am also assuming that they are looking for prints in the master bed/bath, all entry points, and other critical locations. Not every single room in the home, correct?

pack fan,

I have no idea how long a print would hang around, most likely it would vary with the environment it is exposed to. I would also think that since the house was sold on a fairly frequent basis, there would be some repainting done to spruce it up, on at least one or more occasions, however I doubt doors, moulding, and cabinetry would would have changed much.

I would agree prints would be taken from critical points such as entrances and exits or around any windows that may not have been locked shut as well as in any areas identifed as directly involved in the crime. I imagine it is quite a jigsaw puzzle for sure.

[raisincharlie]

Hey RC. I am doing well. Thanks for asking. :) I think that it is pretty much a foregone conclusion that LE has narrowed the list of suspect(s). ;)

Scandi said, "I think Michelle told the therapist about a threat on her life from someone, and she was scared to death it might come true and didn't know how to address the problem."

I tend to agree. I think Jason could have made ominous threats to Michelle that she may have mentioned to the therapist. I believe that the therapist has information that is directly tied to the murderer. I think that it is just another nail in Jason's coffin. I hope and pray that the police are able to piece it all together and find justice for Michelle.

I am of the opinion that JY exhibited some aggressive behavior toward Michelle as well - either verbally or physically or possibly both. I do not believe this was the happy couple some would like us to believe. Can't tell you why I think that other than it is just my opinion.

[strach304]

I am of the opinion that JY exhibited some aggressive behavior toward Michelle as well - either verbally or physically or possibly both. I do not believe this was the happy couple some would like us to believe. Can't tell you why I think that other than it is just my opinion.

You're not alone RC. The affair, trips and the other rumors such as gambling, other things he would do, wearing boxers at his wedding shower, MIL rumors of not getting along with him (wonder why) complaining to female co-workers about his sex life, etc. are all examples of the picture we get of his character. Then we find out Michelle is seeing a therapist for what we do not know but it isn't a far jump to assume he didn't respect his wife and that does lead to many forms of abuse, betrayal, etc. If he personally didn't want to be married in the first place but did because that's how he was raised then I suppose he resented Michelle for it. If what we've heard about his mother and sisters are true then I don't think he'd want to disappoint them and felt the pressure to marry for the sake of being a stand up kinda guy in their eyes. I'm sure his friends and Michelle's also were getting married around that time and seemed like the natural thing to do. The physical abuse is the main thing I can think of (even if it was only once) that fits with the therapist being the only way to get that info and directly pertinent to the investigation as was worded in the article we read.

If Michelle went to see a therapist because of their problems and lets say there was one incident where JY hit her and then she found out about the affair and who it was with; Oh Boy! It seems to me if she was working on saving her marriage she wouldn't have confided that info to friends or family, only her therapist. That would of course account for the statement made to get the court order that it was the only way to get that info. Nobody else knew and it shows he had violent tendencies toward her. All speculation of course but that's what I expect to come from the therapist. All accounts we've heard so far as to Jason being capable of such brutality say no way.

[raisincharlie]

I'm with you Strach - there are numerous indicators leaning toward this scenario. ;)

[jilly]

Well, it looks like I am Poppet apparently.

LMAO!

Sami

I read that Sami! LOL Actually I had to read it twice - couldn't believe it! Biggest blunder of the year for that poster. We won't tell who Poppet is! hehe - Let im enjoy the egg on his face!

[scandi]

Yes, I'm sure our little Poppet would laugh right along with us! I know her well, YaYa

About fingerprints, I think what they would have to take is any fingerprint that overlays any other one even by a smidge or single prints, and that goes together with palm or side hand prints.

JY's firm of Smith has used this in another case I guess, down to the last print, so none can be left unnamed. That could be quite a project if there are prints that can't be matched. They aren't all in CODA because they took a special trip and formed a laison with Brevard LE to fingerprint family and friends.

As to the reason that sent Michelle to consult with a therapist, I think it has to be much more than him hitting her. I don't think a judge would use that as a reason to break a Dr/patient relationship in the eyes of the law. I think it had to be a specific threat, like - If you kick me out and file for divorce and keep me from seeing my daughter, I will kill you. That is just very basic, I didn't get poetic with it. I could also see if JY was caught by Michelle doing something out of the ordinary and he told her he would bash her brains out if she ever told a soal as a reason to be very fearful on her part.

I just think it had to be something that turned Michelle's nervous system into a big shock wave. I think she was scared for her life.

I might also say at CTV they are saying Michelle did catch him with someone in their home. I've never heard that. Has anyone else heard that?

Also the possibility of a lover of JY getting rid of the wife has been thrown out there, but think it has no foundation, and also the idea the killer could be a woman. Since there is so much that leads to JY I am not at all convinced now that some lover had to have this man so bad she or he would kill to have him forever. I don't think so! Scandi

[jilly]

Hey Scandi! Earlier I asked earlier on the O/T thread where you were. Don't remember seeing you yesterday! Glad you're ok!

[scandi]

What a little Sweetie you are Jilly~ You put a big smile on my face. I got no sleep the night before 'cause of my dumb knee, so just read.

Have to run an errand, but will be back in about an hour!

[pack_fan]

Yes, I'm sure our little Poppet would laugh right along with us! I know her well, YaYa

About fingerprints, I think what they would have to take is any fingerprint that overlays any other one even by a smidge or single prints, and that goes together with palm or side hand prints.

JY's firm of Smith has used this in another case I guess, down to the last print, so none can be left unnamed. That could be quite a project if there are prints that can't be matched. They aren't all in CODA because they took a special trip and formed a laison with Brevard LE to fingerprint family and friends.

As to the reason that sent Michelle to consult with a therapist, I think it has to be much more than him hitting her. I don't think a judge would use that as a reason to break a Dr/patient relationship in the eyes of the law. I think it had to be a specific threat, like - If you kick me out and file for divorce and keep me from seeing my daughter, I will kill you. That is just very basic, I didn't get poetic with it. I could also see if JY was caught by Michelle doing something out of the ordinary and he told her he would bash her brains out if she ever told a soal as a reason to be very fearful on her part.

I just think it had to be something that turned Michelle's nervous system into a big shock wave. I think she was scared for her life.

I might also say at CTV they are saying Michelle did catch him with someone in their home. I've never heard that. Has anyone else heard that?

Also the possibility of a lover of JY getting rid of the wife has been thrown out there, but think it has no foundation, and also the idea the killer could be a woman. Since there is so much that leads to JY I am not at all convinced now that some lover had to have this man so bad she or he would kill to have him forever. I don't think so! Scandi

I think the prints are going to be a tricky situation. Obviously LE would not dust the entire house so there has to be some sort of logic to the collection of the prints. Think the entry and exit points will be key as well as around the master bedroom and bath.

I'm sure that there are open and shut cases with husbands (or wives) that kill spouses. Obviously not a "crime junkie" but must be difficult to prove with dna when a spouse is very careful. You would expect to find their dna all over the house. Has to be in a very obvious place like under the fingernails for example. Seems as though there would be more circumstantial evidence than anything else.

I am also intrigued by the therapist. Wonder what type of evidence would be considered critical to the investigation. Don't know but would think it would have to be something substantial to be allowed rather than just standard crap about how he wouldn't take out the trash. Honestly, no marriage is perfect and if you catch me at the right times, you would probably think that mine was horrible as well. We don't brag about the good things but don't mind complaining when things aren't going our way. Back to the point, I doubt that the therapist came forward considering the amount of time that had passed, especially if they are required to report threats. Don't really know if this is true or not. I would be more inclined to beleive that LE found out about it through interviews but again wondering if information would be admissable for ordinary things that go along with a theory that LE has about an "unhappy marriage".

Just rambling, must be time to go to bed.

[scandi]

Hi PackFan, Interesting thought about whether she approached LE or they found her. I agree with you about them finding out about her.

We know it made the judges right eyebrow raise up, right? That takes a lot, because they hear so much and probably always are able to hold their emotions in check. Had to be something very telling that could point to the perp. Now acc to Sami's link, the judge would order this if someone's life was in danger { or SS}.

Wouldn't you think she would realize this right off the bat the minute she learned of the death of her client?

The 3 1/2 month lag in time till we heard about this is what tells me they found her. I think she played it conservatively, knowing she could always go to them as they were still investigating. Her reputation could have been paramount to her decision what with past, present and future clients. She maybe was afraid of the liability and loss of clientelle, meaning $$$'s.

I know, I'm pretty cynical. LE should have learned about this right away. It couldn't have taken 3 1/2 months to deal with, could it?

Scandi

[jilly]

I agree. I think LE found out about Michelle going to a therapist either through Project Energy or friends.

I don't think it had to be something big for the Judge to agree. I'm thinking it could have been something as simple as LE swearing out an affidavit saying that the Youngs' were having financial difficulty, JY was having a relationship with another woman, Michelle was murdered and the husband wasn't co-operating. They may have even had some evidence come back from the lab that they referred to in the affidavit as well. I think LE may have been on a fishing expedition with this one.

My feeling is that there's no threat to Michelle's life here. I think if there was Michelle would have gone to the police and/or a divorce lawyer.

I agree with everyone else. This poor woman's life was turmoil the last 6 months and she needed a therapist to pour her heart out. Obviously, JY was not interested in being there for her emotionally.

[jilly]

Wouldn't you think she would realize this right off the bat the minute she learned of the death of her client?

The 3 1/2 month lag in time till we heard about this is what tells me they found her. I think she played it conservatively, knowing she could always go to them as they were still investigating. Her reputation could have been paramount to her decision what with past, present and future clients. She maybe was afraid of the liability and loss of clientelle, meaning $$$'s.

I know, I'm pretty cynical. LE should have learned about this right away. It couldn't have taken 3 1/2 months to deal with, could it?

Scandi

Scandi - I don't know what exactly was going on with the therapist, if it's true that LE found her. I would think she could have gone to the police when she found out about the murder and told them they'd have to get a Court Order for her notes. That way she would still be protected legally in that she would not be violating the therapist/client priviledge.

Just guessing here - could be right off base.

[scandi]

That does sound like a plausible answer Jilly. If she told LE she needed a court order to learn info that could possibly help in their investigation it would protect her practice and at the same time do right by Michelle.

Why would that process take so long?

Jilly, I was too far behind to read tonight at CTV. Did anything else come out of interest?

Scandi


PS: Oh, I love our new formatting!

[strach304]

Hi everyone :blowkiss: Been popping in and out, I've started a new medication and it's making me very sleepy.

Scandi, your theory of threats to Michelle's life could very well be right imo because you see that alone might not be enough for an arrest because it doesn't prove he did kill her. To be clearer of what I mean is if Michelle told her he said something physically threatening in the heat of an argument but had not acted on it just shows that he made the threat and she took it seriously enough to tell her therapist. The part about the therapist that sticks out to me is LE saying they could not obtain that info in any other way so I believe it has to be something friends and family weren't aware of or where other records existed. Something told to a therapist in Michelle's own words to me mean a great deal but show another side to Jason possibly that noone else was aware of.

[strach304]

Jilly, you make some very good points but since the therapist sessions were close in proximity to the time she was killed we don't know if she was advised to go to LE with threats or suspicions of other things (will, accident) possible one time violent episode, etc. and she didn't get the chance of doing anything formal before her murder. Her decision also could have been divorce in the scenario that you have all these other problems and then she found out about the affair but she's the one in therapy? That would be one heck of a slap in the face but sudden realization that she wasn't the problem so to speak and no amount of therapy was gonna fix that so a logical conclusion of divorce was made. I still wonder about a catalyst for that night that set things in motion that caused a heated fight between the two but there are good arguments also for premeditation given Jason knew her plans to divorce him and this is how he chose to settle it.

[scandi]

Hi Strach, You take care honey. If your meds makes you sleepy it could be your body needs some good sleep!

I've thought a lot about Michelle's situation, and I always stumble over the fact that a threat or fear of dangerous repurcussions on her if she were to take an action like filing for divorce or asking him to leave, can't be remedied by LE at that point. Not until there is an overt action of harm on his part I believe. If he had a record or there was a history of DV it might be different, but I don't think there was. LE would tell her to file a restraining order, but like I have said before, what good does that do when he is suddenly there, won't let you use the phone and then has his fingers on your neck!

Was that gobbltegook I read at CTV that JY was a felon?

I think the therapist told her to go about her plan in an organized way and start by giving him a specific date to start moving his things out of the house. I do believe that Thursday was the day as he supposedly left with 'baggage', and believe Michelle chose that date hurredly as he was getting more verbally abusive to her by the day. Once that cycle starts it only escalates from what I've seen.

The fact it was the big weekend and friends were coming means nothing to me, as those plans would have been set in place way before. Maybe she told him that Thursday to get out if she had just learned about MM. I think that is what happened. That was major.

And something else I read at CTV tonight was there could have been some changing of documents by JY that she learned about {will or insurance policies} and if she had told him she was going to file for divorce which prompted his trying to change things, it could have speeded up the day she wanted him to leave.

What if he used the library computer to access these documents and make changes he wanted? Could the law office who wrote the docs, or insurance agent get notice they had been pulled up on line and were fanageled with? I don't know. Wouldn't he have to use a password to get into the docs? And that might alert someone the docs were being reviewed. Michelle could have had a call informing her of this. If he did this on the home computer, she might have come across it if she was searching for things to use in the divorce as we have talked about before.

I don't know, but like Sami's link stated, the reason for a judge to make a decision like he did had to be that there was the possibility someone was in danger to decide to go to a therapist. I'm going to have to go back and try and find that link! LOL

Sorry this got so long. Back to bed!

[Whimsigal]

Scandi,

You asked if that was gobbledegook that you read about JY being a felon. If you are referring to the post by someone named Lou Malone at CTV, I believe that post was made in error. I went and looked at all his other posts and they were in a forum call the McGuire Murder. I believe the victim in that case may have also been named Michelle.

Hope you're doing well!!

[raisincharlie]

<snip>

The 3 1/2 month lag in time till we heard about this is what tells me they found her. I think she played it conservatively, knowing she could always go to them as they were still investigating. Her reputation could have been paramount to her decision what with past, present and future clients. She maybe was afraid of the liability and loss of clientelle, meaning $$$'s.

I know, I'm pretty cynical. LE should have learned about this right away. It couldn't have taken 3 1/2 months to deal with, could it?

Scandi

Scandi,

I think it is very possible that LE was aware of the therapist very early on however pursuit of this was delayed until critical interviews and leads closer inside were complete. The DA would have been aware that records from said therapist would be difficult to obtain unless a true need existed. Seems to me that after review of interviews and associated data, such as the computer discs etc. the data may have led LE to pursue the therapist based on this data. I suggest the combination of collected data gave reason to pursue the therapist. The result, as we know, was that pursuit was correct in a Superior Court Judge's opinion. I think it was obviously a good pursuit by LE.

[raisincharlie]

I think the prints are going to be a tricky situation. Obviously LE would not dust the entire house so there has to be some sort of logic to the collection of the prints. Think the entry and exit points will be key as well as around the master bedroom and bath.

I'm sure that there are open and shut cases with husbands (or wives) that kill spouses. Obviously not a "crime junkie" but must be difficult to prove with dna when a spouse is very careful. You would expect to find their dna all over the house. Has to be in a very obvious place like under the fingernails for example. Seems as though there would be more circumstantial evidence than anything else.

<snip>




Very interesting comment pack fan. I have wanted to believe this was an argument gone bad but I must admit that I am leaning more the other way toward premeditation thanks to the rumblings of the defenders.

Interesting thought, being "very careful" could be inclusive of some very interesting clothing. :clap:

[raisincharlie]

In the sense of fairness, seeking theories about the following:

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/1201054/

"The warrant goes on to say there is some "importance of the events around (the) October-November 2003 time frame when the couple got married," but would not say whether it is significant to the case."


The only things we actually know from print about this time period is that Jason and Michelle were married on 10 October 2003. At that time, JY was co-owner of the Arete Way condo with a fellow by the name of Schaad (ryan - can't remember his first name). And that the condo was later titled to JY in December.

Without reading much into this, is it possible that Mr. Schaad was none too pleased about giving up his half ownership to this condo ? Any thoughts about this character ?


ETA - profiling of JY ?

[nanandjim]

I think that the situation that forced Michelle to a professional was one of two things. Either Jason was telling Michelle that she was out of her mind, exaggerating and/or being paranoid about things that were happening (affairs, accidents, searches on the computer) -- or -- Jason was making overt or covert threats to Michelle and also becoming more and more aggressive towards her. Either way, I think that Michelle discussed it with her mother.

I am leaning towards Michelle doing a reality check against a professional to make sure that her reactions to certain situations were normal. What if Jason were doing suspicious searches on the Internet (like Scott Peterson and his tidal searches or Justin Barber and his gunshot wound searches), making ominous comments/threats, being secretive, doing little things to scare her saying that he was just kidding, etc.? Jason could have been playing real mind games with Michelle.

I think that Michelle's gut told her that something wasn't right. I think that she discussed it with her mother and then discussed it with a professional. I bet that her mother told the police everything that Michelle had said, to include information about Michelle seeing a psychologist.

It's more than apparent what would cause the MIL not to like Jason. It had to be that Michelle told her the things that Jason did and said. There would be no other reason for Michelle's mother to have ill will towards her SIL.

[jilly]

I wanted to have another look at the article about getting the therapist's records, so here it is for anyone else interested.

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/1211049/

Quote:

Under North Carolina law, the state can ask a therapist to turn over records and answer questions about therapy sessions if "the disclosure is necessary to a proper administration of justice."

"We have someone who died a violent death, and it appears she sought counseling shortly before that time," Wake County District Attorney Colon Willoughby said. "The closeness in time to her death heightened our interest and we thought it would perhaps provide insights."

Stephens questioned Sargent in his chambers and decided that what she knows is important to the case.

"We felt like we could leave no stone unturned, and this is something that might provide us some insights into who the perpetrator was," Willoughby said.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

I'm sure happy that Michelle went to a therapist. It's obvious to me that Michelle poured her heart out about problems with JY otherwise, I don't think the Judge would have granted the order. Wish we knew what the Therapist added in Chambers and how many sessions Michelle had with her.

[nanandjim]

I'm sure happy that Michelle went to a therapist....
The article that you posted says, "Psychologist Michael Teague, who is not involved in the Young case, says confidentiality is paramount for therapists. He says, however, there are rare exceptions.

"I would imagine that the client would have wanted this to come out given the subsequent set of events," Teague said. "I think in this case, it is appropriate when you see a situation like this."

I assume that he is referring to Michelle when he says that he imagines tha the client would have wanted this to come out. I also wonder what it is that is so important to be revealed. You know that it must have a direct link to the murder.

[scandi]

Great posts you guys ;}

Jilly, as to how many sessions she had I think we have to look at the word " . .she sought counseling shortly before that time . ." from your link above. It doesn't mention 'sessions', and I think shortly could be a week or two, don't you? Maybe days. She might have only had a one hour session with an appt made to come back for follow up.

Charlie, are you thinking of one of those disposable suits? If it was premeditated that far ahead, and the plan was to strangle her, I think he would expect Cassidy to sleep through that, as it would be pretty silent. I don't think he had any idea how hard it is to strangle someone from what I've read, so Cassidy waking and seeing or hearing enough that happened to talk about daddy did it on the 911 tape was a fluke for him!

That then brings us to wonder if he disposed of his paper suit, and Cassidy had blood on her clothing, did he remember to take it with him when he left, or did he really leave something bloody of hers in the bathroom as the insiders have suggested. We have talked about this before, and your thought was to find out if she was wearing the same clothing when they found her as she had the night before.

I've thought a lot about that. It is one of those things we won't know unless there is a leak. Fat chance, right? lol If socks were left behind, LE would surely take them, right? Even if they were thrown in the hamper. Wouldn't that be something if they missed them. What kind of problems would that cause at trial?

Scandi

[scandi]

"I would imagine that the client would have wanted this to come out given the subsequent set of events,"

'What the client would have wanted to come out . .' could be the actual threat he could have made on her life.

Subsequent events could be:

a} Michelle learning about the MM affair, the last straw
b} Argument on phone w/JY, maybe saying she was going to call MM
c} She calls MM and talks till midnight and he can't get through to either party
d} Return to house
e} Murder


Someone mentioned the condo. I read at CTV that Michelle had at one point walked in on him when he was with someone else. Could it have been at the condo around the time they were married? That is if it is true.

Scandi

[jilly]

The article that you posted says, "Psychologist Michael Teague, who is not involved in the Young case, says confidentiality is paramount for therapists. He says, however, there are rare exceptions.

"I would imagine that the client would have wanted this to come out given the subsequent set of events," Teague said. "I think in this case, it is appropriate when you see a situation like this."

I assume that he is referring to Michelle when he says that he imagines tha the client would have wanted this to come out. I also wonder what it is that is so important to be revealed. You know that it must have a direct link to the murder.

No I don't know that it must have a direct link to the murder. I think this other psychologist is just speaking in general terms. In other words, the deceased would want LE to go through her life with a fine tooth comb.

I'm still not convinced that there was something so important like a threat. LE figures JY murdered his wife. They're trying to put a profile of this guy and looking for motive and who better to find out about JY than from Michelle herself. I think they may have got a lot of information about him - like someone said, Michelle is able to speak from the grave. The DA himself said, ""We felt like we could leave no stone unturned, and this is something that might provide us some insights into who the perpetrator was".

[Utopia]

This is the article from the News & Observer which is a little more specific.

http://www.newsobserver.com/1413/story/546207.html

(this link seems to be a bit finicky, if it doesn't work, you can also search from www.newsobserver.com (http://www.newsobserver.com) for a different story on the MY case and then select this one from the related stories)


Excerpt:
“Conversations between a therapist and patient are considered confidential unless a judge orders the therapist to divulge information, said Judy Hohlfeldt of the N.C. Board of Licensed Professional Counselors.
Exceptions occur if a patient speaks of abusing a child or sharing homicidal or suicidal thoughts, said Louise Glenn, a Durham professional counselor.”
If anyone wants to do a little more digging, here are some more links:

North Carolina Board of Licensed Professional Counselors http://www.ncblpc.org/law.html

Licensure Law Packet (also linked from above site):
http://www.ncblpc.org/forms/Licensure%20Law%20and%20General%20Satutes%200806.p df

American Counseling Association:
http://www.counseling.org/Home/Faq.aspx

From the “frequently asked questions” section (FAQ) of the ACA
Is everything I say confidential?

All members of the American Counseling Association subscribe to the Code of Ethics and Standards of Practice which require counselors to protect the confidentiality of their communications with clients. Most state licensure laws also protect client confidentiality. As a client, you are guaranteed the protection of confidentiality within the boundaries of the client/counselor relationship. Any disclosure will be made with your full written, informed consent and will be limited to a specific period of time. The only limitations to confidentiality occur when a counselor feels that there is clear and imminent danger to you or to others, or when legal requirements demand that confidential information be disclosed such as a court case. Whenever possible, you will be informed before confidential information is revealed.
ACA Code of Ethics link available in download section (bottom right corner)



With regard to the 31/2 lag of time before documents were officially sought by the court, I don't think this is unreasonable. I imagine some hoops had to be jumped through. Also, as to the number of sessions, I'm not sure what its like elsewhere but I know the EAP program through my work, and others that I know of, usually only provide short term counseling of 4-6 sessions. If more is required they refer you on and you would then take responsibility for payment. I would guess the sessions would be booked either once per week or once every other week.


Hope this is useful.
Utopia

[scandi]

Scandi,

You asked if that was gobbledegook that you read about JY being a felon. If you are referring to the post by someone named Lou Malone at CTV, I believe that post was made in error. I went and looked at all his other posts and they were in a forum call the McGuire Murder. I believe the victim in that case may have also been named Michelle.

Hope you're doing well!!

Hi Whimsigal, I read that short thread, and actually laughed after reading the last post. Lou must have read what was said about it being the wrong case but came back and embellished on it a bit. Was there a Michelle in that case too?

I thought that was the short thread that dealt with a gun.

Scandi

[jilly]

Scandi - I think you may be right about limited sessions with this therapist. :( We've read that JY knew she was going to a therapist but didn't know what was said. This could have been what set him off. Some of these guys get paranoid with even the mention of a psychologist/psychiatrist. Things were closing in on him and with her seeing a psychologist he had lost total control?

Here's a thought though.....if JY had threatened to kill Michelle and he knows she's seeing a therapist, do you think he still would have killed her?

[jilly]

Hi Utopia.:)

Thanks for all that information. After reading most of it, it seems to pertain to a client whilst s/he is alive. I couldn't find any mention of therapist/client privilege when the client ends up dead which I believe could have a bearing on the privilege.

I'll have to do some googling for case authority.

Also interesting in your post - "The only limitations to confidentiality occur when a counselor feels that there is clear and imminent danger to you or to others, or when legal requirements demand that confidential information be disclosed such as a court case. Whenever possible, you will be informed before confidential information is revealed."

This makes me think that the therapist did not think Michelle was in any danger otherwise she would have had to report it.

[scandi]

Yes, I think so Jilly, but think he truely planned it, to strangle her and to wear a paper outfit he could dispose of. One thing that tells me it was premeditated was when strangling didn't work he didn't stop. He proceeded to beat her to death. Wonder if he had access to a suit from Chart-one?

Like we learned in the SP case, Dr Albow pointed out that in spousal murders, removing the threat is what drives the murder to occur. Whoever killed her wanted her dead.

I still don't know if she died right away when he thought she was gone. She bled so much. How long would it take to deliver 30 some blows to her head? 5 min, maybe 10 from the time he walked in the room. Just guessing.

[scandi]

Hi Utopia.:)

Thanks for all that information. After reading most of it, it seems to pertain to a client whilst s/he is alive. I couldn't find any mention of therapist/client privilege when the client ends up dead which I believe could have a bearing on the privilege.

I'll have to do some googling for case authority.

Also interesting in your post - "The only limitations to confidentiality occur when a counselor feels that there is clear and imminent danger to you or to others, or when legal requirements demand that confidential information be disclosed such as a court case. Whenever possible, you will be informed before confidential information is revealed."

This makes me think that the therapist did not think Michelle was in any danger otherwise she would have had to report it.

Maybe she did report it after getting an attorney who would have petitioned the court for her to break that patient/Dr privledge. We just don't know yet.

[nanandjim]

No I don't know that it must have a direct link to the murder...
I didn't mean you. Perhaps, I should have stated I. :) I am under the impression that it is rare for a judge to grant access to any patient's files, dead or alive. I think that the sessions must contain something that is directly pertinent to the crime. I think that Michelle mentioned something, whether it be her fears or something Jason was doing or saying, that would fit into Jason committing the crime.

I wonder if the sessions were tape recorded. I would think that would be better than just looking into her file.

[chicoliving]

I wonder if the sessions were tape recorded. I would think that would be better than just looking into her file.

I wondered the same. I also wonder if Michelle went into detail about the car accident from her POV. It seems the loss of a baby would be something to talk with a Dr. about. I'd think that talking about stressful life incidents would be natural when talking with someone professionally no matter what your problem was that brought you there.

[Utopia]

There was an interesting post on CTV tonight by a poster named Purple but nobody commented on it. I am not registered there and don't want to be, but I also don't want to steal his/her post. I thought it would be interesting to have it shared here - so Purple, if you are out there or someone that knows Purple, it was about an entry he/she came across on a website called "baby Thomas" by a Michelle Young. Can anyone help?

Utopia

[strach304]

Hey Chico, glad to see your thoughts on this case. :dance: Remebering your posts from the Laci case.

I have a new thought I wanna try out that I haven't seen speculated on but lets keep in mind info gleaned from insiders on the other board may not be accurate, ok? When we got the info on the therapist right before that was the trip to Ca. so we know from warrants LE wanted those discs from that and discs from around the 2003 era. RC, do you remember if they were specific about if they were discs from the wedding or did we just infer that from the time frame? I'm wondering about a trip along with a possible accident that may have occurred in that time frame?

With coincidence upon coincidence and some suspicion also with the car accident it wouldn't surprise me to find similarities there too. I know it's generally believed that Jason took family on that Ca. trip and that's something Michelle herself may have thought and told others but found out differently or there was more to it somehow that she became aware of later. I have to go back to my first instinct in this case where it was reported the husband was out of town and the other stuff first released and it sounded very contrived to me. Another accident and trip in 2003 as a way of not going through with the marriage but he wouldn't be to blame and was away? Possibly a boating or swimming mishap we don't know about on a honeymoon trip together? Then there's the thought of LE comparing picture discs from both trips looking for the same person in pics that Jason may have associated with both times with nefarious intentions that they want to tie him to.

I know my imagination is a little wild at times but I do still believe that Scott Peterson had thought of and tried several ways of getting rid of Laci long before he actually did it. In ways that would look accidental or he would be out of town and in the clear and then when those failed he became desperate as her due date was near and so he made many mistakes that got him caught. Perhaps Michelle forced Jason's hand with simply the threat of divorce just like a resented forced marriage and this is how he chooses to deal with such matters. IMO to do something like that takes a pretty sick mind in the first place. If he was all about people's perceptions of him like another smooth operator we're famliar with, wouldn't the same thought processes apply? As for wanting his freedom and having to raise Cassidy, I'll believe that when I see it. It's been stated that his sister wants children and being suspicious of him all along, I don't doubt again he has her for now for more than appearance sake. All imo if he did this.

[SueY]

There was an interesting post on CTV tonight by a poster named Purple but nobody commented on it. I am not registered there and don't want to be, but I also don't want to steal his/her post. I thought it would be interesting to have it shared here - so Purple, if you are out there or someone that knows Purple, it was about an entry he/she came across on a website called "baby Thomas" by a Michelle Young. Can anyone help?
UtopiaI'm not Purple (or green), Utopia, but I think this is what you are looking for:
http://www.babythomas.co.uk/guestbook7.html
There's a post there from a Michelle Young, 07 March 2006.
"My baby was stillborn at 20wks and 2 days. Reading this has helped a great deal."
I don't know if it's "the" Michelle Young.

[strach304]

There was an interesting post on CTV tonight by a poster named Purple but nobody commented on it. I am not registered there and don't want to be, but I also don't want to steal his/her post. I thought it would be interesting to have it shared here - so Purple, if you are out there or someone that knows Purple, it was about an entry he/she came across on a website called "baby Thomas" by a Michelle Young. Can anyone help?

Utopia

I saw that earlier but did you notice it was a stillbirth and sent in on March 7, 2006? I looked at it and thought it was a strange coincidence but unless there's another we don't know about or the date is off I don't see how it could be her.

[Utopia]

I saw that earlier but did you notice it was a stillbirth and sent in on March 7, 2006? I looked at it and thought it was a strange coincidence but unless there's another we don't know about or the date is off I don't see how it could be her.

Thank you Strach and Sue (whatever colour you are:D)

No wonder no one responded! I thought the post just got lost in that very long argument about spontaneous vs therapeutic vs abortion vs miscarriage...never mind. I think I must have looked at it and misread May instead of March, probably because I was thinking of May as being when the accident happened.

My thought was that if it was indeed her posting that message between the time she lost her baby and the murder (and there was a away to prove it was by identifying the IP address), it might show something about her state of mind during that time. I wonder if she did belong to any online groups or seek out support online somehow - such as this MY did, if it could be detected on the confiscated computer.

Thanks for your help.:)

[Taximom]

Interesting article about NC Senate Bill 295 making it a capital offense to kill a pregnant woman:

http://deathwatch.wordpress.com/

[strach304]

Interesting indeed. Doesn't give a date that I could find for when it would be passed if it is.

[Taximom]

Interesting indeed. Doesn't give a date that I could find for when it would be passed if it is.

According to Brock's website, the bill has been referred to the Judiciary committee. (yawn) I wonder how long it will take. (I just checked and the Jud. comm. only meets Tuesdays/Thursdays at 10:00 a.m.)

Here's Brock's link. He's certainly a busy guy!
http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/gascripts/members/reports/introducedBills.pl?nUserID=104&Chamber=S

[scandi]

I hope they do pass the bill, but unless they make it retroactive it won't affect the charge on Michelle's killer ;{

That is a real coincidence about the posting on the Thomas site, but is a few months too early to be our Michelle I think.

I have taken to heart one of Charlie's great ideas on the case, that the accident was just that, but it was caused by JY's negligent driving. The clown and practical joker, I think he was horsing around driving that car and if he did something stupid like take his eyes off the road to turn around or take both hands off the wheel, he lost control and veered off down that 100' embankment.

I wanted to post that at CTV last night but didn't as it wasn't my idea, but think it could be an important clue as to what was going on in the lives of this couple.IF Michelle lost the baby as the result of her belly being bumped hard in the accident and JY did not show the same measure of grief or simply passed it off, not accepting his negligence as the reason for losing their baby, Michelle would resent that.

If you take that plus everything else we've learned about him not being a good husband, plus add in whatever we don't know about yet :rolleyes: , I think it shows a time frame of say 5 months before her death when everything between them started to go downhill.


Stratch, we know he had affairs, heard it said enough by insiders, and since he somewhat acquessed to marrying her due to the advent of Cassidy, I'm starting to put faith in the rumor that in 2003 she caught him in bed with someone. And I think it was at the condo he owned with his buddy. It just seems to fit and makes sense. Remember good 'ole Scott P was caught by Laci right after they were married.

MEN! Gees :p

[Utopia]

[quote=scandi;1398606] (snipped)
"I think it shows a time frame of say 5 months before her death when everything between them started to go downhill"

I totally agree Scandi - that's why the time frame between Michelle's second pregnancy and her death is so crucial, and I suspect there will be quite a focus on it. It's also why that "Baby Thomas" post peaked my curiosity about whether or not MY may have reached out over the internet in some way, and if that could be explored as to what she was feeling, thinking and experiencing during that time, and further what it might contribute to the investigation into her murder. No, that particular message was obviously not hers, but it might very well have been a few months later. There has been much speculation about what she may or may not have shared with friends and family but its amazing what people will share with strangers on the internet.

Utopia

[philamena]

When is there going to be an arrest in this case? Surely LE isn't still waiting for DNA and other forensics?

[jilly]

When is there going to be an arrest in this case? Surely LE isn't still waiting for DNA and other forensics?

I wouldn't think they'd still be waiting. I would have thought this case would have received priority.

There was one 'insider' at CTV that an arrest would be made at the end of the month. I'm kind of hanging on that.

I will say that LE has had to start from scratch on this case. JY clammed up immediately. I'm kind of ticked off that LE did not get to present him with the news that his wife had been murdered. As well as looking at his demeanor, they would have caught him AND his family right off guard and could have done some questioning.

Thing is, nobody knew JY was going to be in Bevard aside from JY & his parents. I understand it was JYs friends who contacted the parents and told him to get a lawyer because of the questions LE were asking. These friends must have kept it to themselves that they were going to phone the parents, I think. JY lucked out because of it.

I think the cops were pizzed about that too from the sounds of the call they made to JY during his ride back to Raleigh.

[scandi]

Hi Utopia, Interesting they are discussing the date of the accident right now at CTV. A link states it happened in 2005, not 2006. Have we encounteresd this discrepancy before?

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/1063178/

[panthera]

Interesting article about NC Senate Bill 295 making it a capital offense to kill a pregnant woman:

http://deathwatch.wordpress.com/
Yes, they're finally getting around to passing some good legislation around here but, unfortunately, it wouldn't affect Michelle's case. I think it will pass and become law though! :)

[panthera]

When is there going to be an arrest in this case? Surely LE isn't still waiting for DNA and other forensics?
There hasn't been anything in the news lately but I'd think those lab results would've come back weeks ago. :confused:

[Utopia]

Hmmm, that's interesting. I'm not sure. I'll check other reports as well as Scout's timeline. Does that mean she was pregnant with the baby she lost then as well? That would certainly make much more sense than losing the baby one week and getting pregnant again within a couple of weeks later. I'll see what I can find out.

Utopia


Hi Utopia, Interesting they are discussing the date of the accident right now at CTV. A link states it happened in 2005, not 2006. Have we encounteresd this discrepancy before?

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/1063178/

[scandi]

Yea Utopia, I thought there was something a bit off about that. They just posted that Amanda Lamb made an error in her article, so it was in May of 2006.

A poster has just posted there they found trace amounts of blook in JY's car on the floor mats, door and steering wheel I believe. Amazing we have never heard this before, and I don't know if this poster is an insider - AE. Top part of page 6 on today's daily forum.

It would make one wonder why they didn't arrest him, but maybe the tests were inconclusive for some reason, or they still needed to have something else. Don't you think that would put him at the scene. In many Forensic Files cases on TV they have evidence you would think would nail the guy, but need a string of telling evicence to make it a dead set case the prosecution can win.

LOLOLOL I feel like a little narc, running back and forth with info! :D Oh, well!

[strach304]

Scandi, yes we had that date thing cleared up back in the beginning of this case. Was supposed to be an error by the reporter and several insiders not sure of the exact date in May were sure it was 2006.

Also the info that unknown fingerprints found could imo be a very good explanation for a holdup of an arrest no matter who that turns out to be for several reasons depending on where those prints were found. Accomplices for instance, the SODDI defense especially in light of the tooth found by the Youngs.

ETA: Sorry Scandi, I see you found the info on the date thing. As I recall there was also problems with the actual day in May, being either the beginning or end of May. Almost 3 weeks. Also that poster on ctv talking about blood is asking what if it was found in those places, not that it was if I read correctly. Usual imo for that poster.

[Barney Fife]

Yea Utopia, I thought there was something a bit off about that. They just posted that Amanda Lamb made an error in her article, so it was in May of 2006.

A poster has just posted there they found trace amounts of blook in JY's car on the floor mats, door and steering wheel I believe. Amazing we have never heard this before, and I don't know if this poster is an insider - AE. Top part of page 6 on today's daily forum.

It would make one wonder why they didn't arrest him, but maybe the tests were inconclusive for some reason, or they still needed to have something else. Don't you think that would put him at the scene. In many Forensic Files cases on TV they have evidence you would think would nail the guy, but need a string of telling evicence to make it a dead set case the prosecution can win.

LOLOLOL I feel like a little narc, running back and forth with info! :D Oh, well!

That poster has ZERO inside information and is basically a TROLL on CTV. She ? is very much pro-JY and has a very antagonistic style.

[strach304]

Scandi, the latest theory I see coming down the pike because imo that's what's beeen hinted at for a few days now is Michelle's father. Based simply on suspicion that's what Michelle was seeing a therapist for. It started here imo by one poster recently banned, trails back to JTF's statement about the answer being in NY. Michelle was said to have been in NY in July, a rift with her father and similar indications also from Meredith on her MySpace page. As of today I saw someone post another little hint about someone who didn't want MY and JY to be married who was not at the wedding. We know it's been stated her father wasn't. All imo. so be ready.

ETA: Also the sex therapist questions that about Michelle presented here and the past questions about her being possibly sexually abused as a child by said banned poster. Hi'ya BF. Any news on those fingerprints?

[Taximom]

Scandi, the latest theory I see coming down the pike because imo that's what's beeen hinted at for a few days now is Michelle's father. Based simply on suspicion that's what Michelle was seeing a therapist for. It started here imo by one poster recently banned, trails back to JTF's statement about the answer being in NY. Michelle was said to have been in NY in July, a rift with her father and similar indications also from Meredith on her MySpace page. As of today I saw someone post another little hint about someone who didn't want MY and JY to be married who was not at the wedding. We know it's been stated her father wasn't. All imo. so be ready.

This case just keeps reminding me of all the gobbledy-gook in the Laci Peterson case. It's amazing. :rolleyes:

[strach304]

This case just keeps reminding me of all the gobbledy-gook in the Laci Peterson case. It's amazing. :rolleyes:

You are so right about that. The same kind of stuff caused anyone who knew Laci to stop reading the boards and commenting too.

[Barney Fife]

Scandi, the latest theory I see coming down the pike because imo that's what's beeen hinted at for a few days now is Michelle's father. Based simply on suspicion that's what Michelle was seeing a therapist for. It started here imo by one poster recently banned, trails back to JTF's statement about the answer being in NY. Michelle was said to have been in NY in July, a rift with her father and similar indications also from Meredith on her MySpace page. As of today I saw someone post another little hint about someone who didn't want MY and JY to be married who was not at the wedding. We know it's been stated her father wasn't. All imo. so be ready.

ETA: Also the sex therapist questions that about Michelle presented here and the past questions about her being possibly sexually abused as a child by said banned poster. Hi'ya BF. Any news on those fingerprints?


My contact says that the reason MY and her father have been somewhat 'estranged' was due to his 2nd wife. Apparently, she did not like the Fisher girls and wanted her husband to have little contact. Her nic was "Step Monster".

MY was NOT abused in any way by her Father.

[Utopia]

Scandi,

Okay, I just spent WAY too much time combing through posts on the date of the car accident. There was absolutely lots of confusion about 2005 vs. 2006, but in my opinion there is far too many posts that start with "according to another board" or "an insider said". Several of the media links are no longer working so the only media links I could find were the Amanda Lamb report on November 15th stating May 29th, 2005 for the accident - with no mention of a pregnancy at the time, and reference to a Greta show on November 16th that claimed she was pregnant at the time of the accident. The rest as far as I can tell have come from "insider" information. Personally, I'm not convinced either way. The media does make mistakes and I don't trust insider information. I think its really important that posters be clear about where information is coming from and try to provide links when possible.

I still think 2005 makes a lot more sense at least for the pregnancy, and if its true that she was pregnant at the time of the accident then it also makes sense that the accident was then as well.

JMO:twocents:

Yea Utopia, I thought there was something a bit off about that. They just posted that Amanda Lamb made an error in her article, so it was in May of 2006.

A poster has just posted there they found trace amounts of blook in JY's car on the floor mats, door and steering wheel I believe. Amazing we have never heard this before, and I don't know if this poster is an insider - AE. Top part of page 6 on today's daily forum.

It would make one wonder why they didn't arrest him, but maybe the tests were inconclusive for some reason, or they still needed to have something else. Don't you think that would put him at the scene. In many Forensic Files cases on TV they have evidence you would think would nail the guy, but need a string of telling evicence to make it a dead set case the prosecution can win.

LOLOLOL I feel like a little narc, running back and forth with info! :D Oh, well!

[jilly]

Well, if their relationship was somewhat extranged then Michelle & her father must have come together somehow because it was the father who arranged for them to get the '04 explorer wasn't it?

I would guess her father is taking this murder very hard.

[Utopia]

What if the insider who "corrected" the accident date from 2005 to 2006 had a motive to do so, i.e. to separate pregnancy and car accident by a year. I could be way off, just asking. Of course, this is not how the inference was taken, we all assumed that if accident occurred in 2006, then so did 2nd pregnancy. I think from what info we have that she was pregnant at time of accident and it was likely the reason she lost the baby, even if there is no way to prove it - but I also think its more likely that it happened in 2005 not 2006 - but its all speculation, I think I'll await the facts.

If anyone finds any other media links to the dates of the car accident, pregnancy or "therapeutic abortion" (she carefully puts in quotes), it would be great if they could be linked again.

Thanks, Utopia

ETA: I don't suppose the original accident report is accessible somehow?

Scandi,

Okay, I just spent WAY too much time combing through posts on the date of the car accident. There was absolutely lots of confusion about 2005 vs. 2006, but in my opinion there is far too many posts that start with "according to another board" or "an insider said". Several of the media links are no longer working so the only media links I could find were the Amanda Lamb report on November 15th stating May 29th, 2005 for the accident - with no mention of a pregnancy at the time, and reference to a Greta show on November 16th that claimed she was pregnant at the time of the accident. The rest as far as I can tell have come from "insider" information. Personally, I'm not convinced either way. The media does make mistakes and I don't trust insider information. I think its really important that posters be clear about where information is coming from and try to provide links when possible.

I still think 2005 makes a lot more sense at least for the pregnancy, and if its true that she was pregnant at the time of the accident then it also makes sense that the accident was then as well.

JMO:twocents:

[Barney Fife]

Well, if their relationship was somewhat estranged then Michelle & her father must have come together somehow because it was the father who arranged for them to get the '04 explorer wasn't it?

I would guess her father is taking this murder very hard.

Estranged was the wrong word. The Step Mother was the problem.

[5bigfish5]

My contact says that the reason MY and her father have been somewhat 'estranged' was due to his 2nd wife. Apparently, she did not like the Fisher girls and wanted her husband to have little contact. Her nic was "Step Monster".

MY was NOT abused in any way by her Father.

Thanks Barney,

I suspected it was "much ado about nothing".

5bigfish5

[jilly]

Estranged was the wrong word. The Step Mother was the problem.

Thanks Barney. Do you know if they've scaled back the investigation on this case at all?

[strach304]

My contact says that the reason MY and her father have been somewhat 'estranged' was due to his 2nd wife. Apparently, she did not like the Fisher girls and wanted her husband to have little contact. Her nic was "Step Monster".

MY was NOT abused in any way by her Father.

Thanks, didn't think so and it was made clear by several people who posted early on that they had reconciled, etc. Being that he lives far away from NC. also gives me reason to believe he may not have been able to attend that ceremony for other reasons imo. Also puts him very far away from the crime scene but facts haven't stopped certain speculation so far. :doh:

[raisincharlie]

What if the insider who "corrected" the accident date from 2005 to 2006 had a motive to do so, i.e. to separate pregnancy and car accident by a year. I could be way off, just asking. Of course, this is not how the inference was taken, we all assumed that if accident occurred in 2006, then so did 2nd pregnancy. I think from what info we have that she was pregnant at time of accident and it was likely the reason she lost the baby, even if there is no way to prove it - but I also think its more likely that it happened in 2005 not 2006 - but its all speculation, I think I'll await the facts.

If anyone finds any other media links to the dates of the car accident, pregnancy or "therapeutic abortion" (she carefully puts in quotes), it would be great if they could be linked again.

Thanks, Utopia

ETA: I don't suppose the original accident report is accessible somehow?

Utopia,

Hope your studies are going well ! The above is interesting about the poster having a reason to change the year for this accident. As I recall this same poster was very adament that the car accident had absolutely nothing to do with the loss of the baby. I find that hard to believe given all the other claims made along with it. There seems to be a contradiction there if one thinks about it. They want you to believe the accident happened without consequence. I suppose it is possible but then again, the list of coincidences in this case is becoming longer and longer. I will go back and look through the links as I do not believe Amanda Lamb was the only one to report 2005 as the year, keep in mind that this poster has also been very accusatory of Ms. Lamb as well - second agenda.


Scandi,

No I was not thinking of a paper suit. Firm believer here in KISS. I was thinking along the lines of the basics such as gloves and a mask. The reference to a single hair found on Michelle's hand as referenced in the AR made me think about this. Just my way of thinking, if the murderer's head was exposed, there may been more hair. Michelle fought back if the scratches on her neck were made by her - hair pulling would be automatic in my way of thinking.

[raisincharlie]

Utopia,

Having checked the property tax statements from Wake County note that the taxes paid:

Mitsuibishi - 1/24/06
Explorer - 9/15/06

This indicates the Mitsuibishi was still registered as of January 2006, the Explorer was recently paid in 2006 as well - this tends to indicate that the accident did indeed occur in May of 2006 and the Explorer was purchased in 2006.

That should refine the issue. The accident most likely occurred in May (29th) 2006.

[Utopia]

Thanks RC, you are a fine detective! Okay, I'll accept that the accident was most likely May 06. I did find transcripts from a Nancy Grace show and a Jan 22nd 07 Greta show that seem to be referring to the accident as happening in 2006 as well.

Was the Explorer purchased before or after May 06? If before, and the accident occurred in May 06, then it wasn't purchased specifically to replace the Mitsuibishi. Sorry this might be a stupid question given the info you provided re taxes but I'm assuming the tax statement dates have nothing to do with purchase dates. I suppose its possible that even if the accident occurred in 2005, they could have kept the Mitsuibishi in spite of the water damage.

Sorry, don't mean to flog a dead horse, I'll just accept for now that the accident was probably in 2006.

ETA: Studies would be going much better if I could get some self discipline and stay off this board! Hubby coming for a visit in less than two weeks and I have much to accomplish before then.

Utopia,

Having checked the property tax statements from Wake County note that the taxes paid:

Mitsuibishi - 1/24/06
Explorer - 9/15/06

This indicates the Mitsuibishi was still registered as of January 2006, the Explorer was recently paid in 2006 as well - this tends to indicate that the accident did indeed occur in May of 2006 and the Explorer was purchased in 2006.

That should refine the issue. The accident most likely occurred in May (29th) 2006.

[raisincharlie]

Thanks RC, you are a fine detective! Okay, I'll accept that the accident was most likely May 06. I did find transcripts from a Nancy Grace show and a Jan 22nd 07 Greta show that seem to be referring to the accident as happening in 2006 as well.

Was the Explorer purchased before or after May 06? If before, and the accident occurred in May 06, then it wasn't purchased specifically to replace the Mitsuibishi. Sorry this might be a stupid question given the info you provided re taxes but I'm assuming the tax statement dates have nothing to do with purchase dates. I suppose its possible that even if the accident occurred in 2005, they could have kept the Mitsuibishi in spite of the water damage.

Sorry, don't mean to flog a dead horse, I'll just accept for now that the accident was probably in 2006.

ETA: Studies would be going much better if I could get some self discipline and stay off this board! Hubby coming for a visit in less than two weeks and I have much to accomplish before then.

No the tax dates would have nothing to do with purchase dates. As to the Mitsuibishi - motors and water don't mix well, very costly to replace but I suspct there was more than just water damage. From this I cannot positively state the Mitsuibishi was done in May and the Explorer was the replacement but logic would seem to dictate it as the case.

[Niner]

okay... trying to catch up here... I have 'skipped' threads 8 thru 13... Hopefully I won't miss much, eh??!! LOL!

I do have a question though!!

Charlie - you said: One thing is for certain, the dog bit story in lin with everything else and claiming HY "knows" whose footprint was found...

Footprint??? I guess that must have been mentioned in the threads I missed - can you elaborate on 'where' this footprint was found?? TIA!

and from April 15th - Charlie:
GO Ferrari!!! - YEA!! Go Kimi AND Ferrari!!

And I noticed on the part #14 - that someone mentioned that an arrest will be made by March 31st?? okay... 5 days away!!

Thanks for your answers in advance! Trying really hard to catch up here! :slap:

[raisincharlie]

okay... trying to catch up here... I have 'skipped' threads 8 thru 13... Hopefully I won't miss much, eh??!! LOL!

I do have a question though!!

Charlie - you said: One thing is for certain, the dog bit story in lin with everything else and claiming HY "knows" whose footprint was found...

Footprint??? I guess that must have been mentioned in the threads I missed - can you elaborate on 'where' this footprint was found?? TIA!

and from April 15th - Charlie:
GO Ferrari!!! - YEA!! Go Kimi AND Ferrari!!

And I noticed on the part #14 - that someone mentioned that an arrest will be made by March 31st?? okay... 5 days away!!

Thanks for your answers in advance! Trying really hard to catch up here! :slap:

Niner,

I'm afraid you have picked up on a series of what can only be termed rumor at this point. A supposed "insider" claims there was a bloody foot print that did not belong to JY or Cassidy somewhere in the crime scene. This has no official status, strictly rumor. Another "insider" claimed there were dog bite victims in the ER the night of the murder and that yes there was a foot print and that yes JY knew who it belonged to. Again, this is all rumor and at this point there is no way to tell what is true. Best advice - wait for news reports as I believe certain people are "jerking" chains.

Ferrari Fan aye ?

Check this out - new shell commercial - using the old flat 312 B changing into the F248 I believe. Also in the Totally off Topic Thread part 1 - if you want some free Ferrari collectable stickers check out post 721.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0jrPrjW3Oc

As to Kimi - not totally sold on him but sold on Ferrari - tough act to follow Schumacher but Kimi has one win in hand - should be an interesting season. Yes - GO Ferrari !!!

[less0305]

No the tax dates would have nothing to do with purchase dates. As to the Mitsuibishi - motors and water don't mix well, very costly to replace but I suspct there was more than just water damage. From this I cannot positively state the Mitsuibishi was done in May and the Explorer was the replacement but logic would seem to dictate it as the case.

True, I bought my car in January of 06 and my taxes came due in April of 06.

[FactsareFacts]

I hope this is not off topic but I just wanted to say that I love the way this board is run. I have spent several days reading at CTV and there are some really great posters over there but; there are too many petty, argumentative, rude posters. If those posts were removed the MY board would be cut in half over there. It makes me appreciate this place so much even though I don't post alot, I never have to wade thru pages of BS.

I know some of you post over there and I tip my hat to you for your patience. There are a couple posters over there who would not last a day here from what I see. It looks like one of them got the boot today over there though.

So thank you fellow posters and also the moderators here for makin