Michelle Young, pregnant mom, murdered Part 16

[Samiya]

By Special Request :)

When you walk
Through a storm
Hold your head, up high
And don't be afraid of the dark
At the end of the storm
Is a golden sky
And the sweet silver song of a lark.

Walk on, through the wind
Walk on, through the rain
Though your dreams be tossed and blown
Walk on
Walk on
With hope in your heart
And you'll never walk alone.

You'll never walk alone.

Copyright Rogers & Hammerstein.

Sami

[raisincharlie]

I agree and will add that because of MM's emotional state at that time, she was 'easy pickings' for anyone who would want to take advantage of her at that time.

At most times, a woman who is in that kind of emotional state will succumb to comfort from another man.

Just because they emailed each other often I do have to wonder what they were saying to each other? Maybe MM had asked him repeatedly not to tell anyone about what happened between them that night. It is certainly something that one can 'hold over one's head like a tourniquet'.

Sami


Sami,

I wish I could remember who posted this idea (whoever it was I'm sorry I can't properly credit you) the other day but it was to the effect that perhaps MM actually expressed some problem to Michelle who in turn mentioned it to JY. This really struck me as entirely possible. Jy would have known about the vulnerability.

To me, for JY to have an affair with MM does not make sense. Not saying it didn't happen because it appears to be obvious that it did based on the search warrants. However, I just have this niggle that it was a very aimed action. JY had to know that an affair with someone out of state was a loosing proposition with little opportunity of actually fulfilling any need he may have had. Having recently become aware through search warrants that Michelle was not one bit happy about the Ca vacation - and MM occuring after that time - it just seems entirely pointed IMO.

He had to know at some point that MM would most likely have great regret over this and may potentially confess to Michelle - its possible given the history of their friendship. It is also possible IMO that JY himself may have thrown it at Michelle out of pure meaness. Lets face the truth - this guy takes a vacation and pays for others while totally ignoring his wife's concerns - there is no doubt in my mind he was at a minimum, emotionally abusive to Michelle. What better emotional abuse than to confront Michelle with this, knowing it would cause considerable upset and pain? And I would agree, he would also hold this over MM's head as well. Maybe the therapist knows about it. Maybe Michelle knew and never said anything to MM as well.

As to what was said in those daily communications, well LE definitely knows and I suspect it was indeed enlightening. I have a feeling that some of the emails were MM trying to get the heck away from the situation. This of course is my sense of logic and opinion about this. The guy is a true piece of work IMO.

[raisincharlie]

I have a question. Who told us about Cassidy watching Cinderella & falling asleep that nite? Regardless of who, I guess the source had to be the GA friend, right?

Was it said that Cass was watching her movie at the same time they were watching GA?

I was looking at the house near them which is for sale (at CTV). Seems these homes do not have a family room. So if they were watching their shows simultaneously, it could mean that Cassidy was watching in her mom's bed.Shudder to think about that. Hopefully Michelle carried her to her bed but I know with my kids, everytime Dad was away, they slept with me.

If not, then Cassidy was watching the movie in the living room before 9pm.
I can't see Michelle starting the movie for her at 9pm so if she was watching it around 8pm then maybe there's a chance that the GA friend saw jy before he left.


Jilly,

As I recall, Rhett Fussell was the first provider that we were aware of concerning the information about Cassidy watching Cinderella on 2 November. This was a quote from him either in an N & O report or one from WRAL.

I don't recall a time being assigned to when Cassidy was watching this video. I think it is possible Cassidy had a small tv and video player in her own room. Also if you check about page 19 at CTV you will note a link to some layouts of the house that were done by purple. Don't know how acurrate they are but it is much better than what we know of now. Those layouts do show a family room and a great room on the lower floor.

[jilly]

Jilly,

As I recall, Rhett Fussell was the first provider that we were aware of concerning the information about Cassidy watching Cinderella on 2 November. This was a quote from him either in an N & O report or one from WRAL.

I don't recall a time being assigned to when Cassidy was watching this video. I think it is possible Cassidy had a small tv and video player in her own room. Also if you check about page 19 at CTV you will note a link to some layouts of the house that were done by purple. Don't know how acurrate they are but it is much better than what we know of now. Those layouts do show a family room and a great room on the lower floor.

Hi RC - Thank you! I noticed afterwards about Purple's plans including a family room. I was going by the virtual tour on ncnc's post.
I'm more confused now with all these plans what with bonus room & stairs, lol.

Hopefully Flicka will get ahold of the realtor.

[scandi]

Oh Darn! I wrote my post too late. I was hoping you could start this thread off with the words to 'You'll Never Walk Alone' from Carosel, Sami.

Oh well, too late now I guess. Off to Costco, be back

[The Saint]

From the Musical : Carousel
Artist: Rodgers & Hammerstein
Song: You'll Never Walk Alone



When you walk through a storm
Keep your chin up high
And don't be afraid of the dark.
At the end of the storm
Is a golden sky
And the sweet silver song of a lark.

Walk on through the wind,
Walk on through the rain,
Though your dreams be tossed and blown.
Walk on, walk on
With hope in your heart
And you'll never walk alone,
You'll never walk alone.

[The Saint]

I think that Jay's affair with MM was very calculated to inflict maximum
hurt and humiliation to Michelle. Why else would he choose to sleep with his wife's best friend?

It was a fantasy relationship for him. MM was out of state and wouldn't be
making demands on him. He could see her on HIS schedule, whenever he
he felt like seeing her.

It strikes me as being odd that MM and Jay only slept together that one time in Florida. Either the encounter wasn't very satisfying or MM wasn't being truthful about it being just once.

It could be that the email correspondence was what MM really needed and wanted (the emotional aspect) and the physical aspect wasn't all that great for her.

It does seem possible that MM used her little boy being sick as an excuse. Surely, he would have improved in the 2 weeks before the big football game.

It must have seemed too stressful for her come to Raleigh with her husband and child in tow. Would the Moneys have stayed with the Youngs at Birchleaf? Plus Jay seemed to be unpredictable in his behavior in social groups. She might have been afraid that he might get drunk and cause a scene.

I wonder if Jay had issued an ultimatum to MM? Maybe it was serious and he wanted her to choose between Steve and him. Maybe he was telling her that she better tell Steve or he would tell him about the affair.

What if jay had told MM that the both of them should tell their spouses at the same time that they wanted to be together that weekend?

That could be why MM cancelled her plans to come to Raleigh.

Which Michelle did Jay date first in college?

imo

[Samiya]

Oh Darn! I wrote my post too late. I was hoping you could start this thread off with the words to 'You'll Never Walk Alone' from Carosel, Sami.

Oh well, too late now I guess. Off to Costco, be back

I edited my post to include it for you :)

Hugs
Sami

[raisincharlie]

Sami,

Making one's birth certificate a "worthless document"


ROFLMAO ! :clap: Love it, plan on borrowing that line on an occasion or two if you don't mind ?

[scandi]

Hi RC - Thank you! I noticed afterwards about Purple's plans including a family room. I was going by the virtual tour on ncnc's post.
I'm more confused now with all these plans what with bonus room & stairs, lol.

Hopefully Flicka will get ahold of the realtor.
Happy Easter :blowkiss:

First I want to thank you Sami for starting our thread with those words of hope. You know that this is the prayer I now have for Cassidy, as she has a long life ahead of her and will never have the comfort and joy of talking to her own real mom.

Morning Jilly, Yes I plan to compose a short letter this afternoon and will post it just so if anyone has any other ideas I should include, that can be done before I send it.

We got sidewinded a bit looking of the plans of the house {5505 ?}that has the 3 gar garage sitting back, facing the front lot, but I have a real feeling the Young home was similar to the basic plan of the house itself, except the floor plan was flipped over. In the big house the MBr was on the opposite side of the house from the side entry garage {which was on the left side of the house facing it}. The Young home has the side entry garage on the right side of the house, so in following suit, I think the MBr is on the left side of the house.

We are trying to find out how the killer would approach the MBr, so we need to find out if it has a back set of stairs from which one could go up from the garage to the second floor. Stairs connecting the kitchen to both storage below {like a fruit room} and to the second level were almost a standard in the 90's when these homes were being built. So even though we have no floor plan of the Young house yet, I', thinking there are stairs, and we just have to find out how they connect and to where.

Last night I looked at the photos from Greta's trip to the Young house, and I noticed Michelle had white curtains in all of the upstairs windows. I noticed that on the left side of the house upstairs, the 2 windows in that room, the curtains looked like they were billowing a bit. To me that said those 2 windows were opened for ventilation, and in fact the right one of those two windows I think I can see it is pulled up half-way.

This gives me more reason to believe their MBr was on that side of the upstairs, with the actual bedroom in the back, looking out over the back yard, and the windows I am refering to are in the MBathroom, which is huge and runs from the bedroom all the way out to the front of the house.

Charlie, the only think I remember that MM could have talked to Michelle about would be her desire to have another baby and that she was having trouble getting pregnant. The rumor floated she was having fertility treatments, but I have no idea if that was a founded rumor or just idle prattle! lol

Scandi

PS: I'll bring some of those links over for reference, but I don't know how to hyperlink so will do them one at a time! ;)

[scandi]

I edited my post to include it for you :)

Hugs
Sami


Thanks Sami. It just feels good having a thought of hope to start this new thread. I always loved that when you did it at CTV.

And now I see our Saint has brought it here as well, and so I Thank You too for that Saint.

:blowkiss: Scandi

[scandi]

Hi again Saint, It always struck me as odd too that if MM and JY were friends of long standing, as we were told, that a platonic relationship would suddenly turn into a daily phone and email contact relationship that would also have one night of sex with him traveling down to Fl specifically to go to her home while her hubby was away.

Have you heard anything Saint about them dating in college? Well then what we heard about the one time having sex is wrong and it was stated that way to downplay an intimate relationship. We did hear early that MM and JY were in Denver at the same time. Hmmm, I don't think they were really both on track for each other.

But when I think everything over I don't think MM had the hots for JY and really wanted her marriage to work. I don't think JY ever really wanted his marriage to Michelle to work out. So he was probably in hot pursuit of MM and she only really wanted to befriend him and not 'sex him up'.

See, when I say it like that I think it puts the right light on how she felt about him. I don't think he got her all hot and bothered like JY wanted her, and I think what he wanted was sex so he could throw it back in Michelle's face.

What a rotton dufflebag he is!

[scandi]

Here is a link to the photo from Greta. Doesn't it look like those two windows top left are opened to ventilate?

http://www.foxnews.com/photoessay/0,4644,1264,00.html#9_0

[Whimsigal]

Here is a link to the photo from Greta. Doesn't it look like those two windows top left are opened to ventilate?

http://www.foxnews.com/photoessay/0,4644,1264,00.html#9_0


Happy Easter Scandi!


I looked at the pic you provided in the link and must confess I cannot see any curtains that appear to be billowing. It actually looks to me like there are blinds in all the windows but who knows??

When were these pics taken?

[jilly]

Hi again Saint, It always struck me as odd too that if MM and JY were friends of long standing, as we were told, that a platonic relationship would suddenly turn into a daily phone and email contact relationship that would also have one night of sex with him traveling down to Fl specifically to go to her home while her hubby was away.

Have you heard anything Saint about them dating in college? Well then what we heard about the one time having sex is wrong and it was stated that way to downplay an intimate relationship. We did hear early that MM and JY were in Denver at the same time. Hmmm, I don't think they were really both on track for each other.

Yeah, regarding the downplay - I'm sure I read somewhere that one of the camp was implying that the sex was Money's fault because "she wasn't getting any" or words to that effect.

[jilly]

Here is a link to the photo from Greta. Doesn't it look like those two windows top left are opened to ventilate?

http://www.foxnews.com/photoessay/0,4644,1264,00.html#9_0

No, I don't see those windows open. To me it just looks like window glare. If the window on the left there was the same, then yes, I'd say they had like a ruffle there on top. Sure are a lot of windows in that house!

[Samiya]

The windows are closed Scandi. I lightened them up and what looks like 'billowing' is the reflection of the trees on the window glass.

I stopped posting nice openers at ctv because I got tired of beginning it with something lovely, just to have the arguments and utter BS quickly begin.

Otto...you're doing a marvellous job honey!

Sami

[Samiya]

LOL..

Lacy Buffaloe Construction Inc
7700 Lake Wheeler RdRaleigh NC 27603
Phone: 919-779-3310


Soooooo who wants to contact them to see if they have blueprints of 5108 Birchleaf?

Sami
(definitely am in wrong country and should consider a move to raleigh!)

[scandi]

LOL..

Lacy Buffaloe Construction Inc
7700 Lake Wheeler RdRaleigh NC 27603
Phone: 919-779-3310


Soooooo who wants to contact them to see if they have blueprints of 5108 Birchleaf?

Sami
(definitely am in wrong country and should consider a move to raleigh!)

Now that is a stellar idea Sami. I wonder if they have them on the computer? I have a fax machine if they can't email them.. Oh, I bet cha they have these plans, At least they are still in biz!

I saw what happened at CTV, which was awful. And I understand about the reflection on the window glass now. Thanks for checking that out Sami.

[The Saint]

Hi again Saint, It always struck me as odd too that if MM and JY were friends of long standing, as we were told, that a platonic relationship would suddenly turn into a daily phone and email contact relationship that would also have one night of sex with him traveling down to Fl specifically to go to her home while her hubby was away.

Have you heard anything Saint about them dating in college? Well then what we heard about the one time having sex is wrong and it was stated that way to downplay an intimate relationship. We did hear early that MM and JY were in Denver at the same time. Hmmm, I don't think they were really both on track for each other.

But when I think everything over I don't think MM had the hots for JY and really wanted her marriage to work. I don't think JY ever really wanted his marriage to Michelle to work out. So he was probably in hot pursuit of MM and she only really wanted to befriend him and not 'sex him up'.

See, when I say it like that I think it puts the right light on how she felt about him. I don't think he got her all hot and bothered like JY wanted her, and I think what he wanted was sex so he could throw it back in Michelle's face.

What a rotton dufflebag he is!


i think that the reference to MM and JY having sex "one time" meant during the 3 -month affair.

I have heard that both michelles were roommates in college and both had dated jay. i don't know which michelle dated him first. i would think that if they dated him, they had sex with him. i could be wrong.

michelle fisher and jay were on-again-off-again in college. some of his friends had never even met michelle fisher. i think that she dated another guy in college besides jay.

the rumor is that alcohol played a part in MM having sex that one time with jay in florida. but it's possible that MM used that as an excuse when admitting to her sorority sisters at the Spa Weekend how she had a weak moment and did it with him.

i had assumed that MM and jay were in denver at the same time
(on MY and JY's anniversary) and that they slept together then, too, but no one had ever confirmed that.

it's just hard to say what MM and jay felt about each other. i tend to think
that MM liked corresponding with him via emails but didn't really have a burning desire to be with him physically, otherwise i think that they would have tried to meet up more frequently.

he was an escape for her and she was a conquest for him. she was just aother weapon to use against his wife.

imo

[The Saint]

Yeah, regarding the downplay - I'm sure I read somewhere that one of the camp was implying that the sex was Money's fault because "she wasn't getting any" or words to that effect.


that was gojo - he said that the "beach girl" wasn't "getting any." someone referred to MM as a bombshell. i don't know if it was only in that article about jaysfan or whether gojo said it too.

i think that jay took the opportunity to pursue a realtionship with MM because she was feeling lonely and michelle was pregnant and it might have curtailed their sex life.

imo

[jake]

that was gojo - he said that the "beach girl" wasn't "getting any." someone referred to MM as a bombshell. i don't know if it was only in that article about jaysfan or whether gojo said it too.

i think that jay took the opportunity to pursue a realtionship with MM because she was feeling lonely and michelle was pregnant and it might have curtailed their sex life.

imo

Howdy,

I remember now. I've been scratching my head about that Gojo comment. It wasn't aimed at MM. It was a sarcastic comment aimed at another poster, Surfie.

I believe Gojo said maybe Surfie (surf girl) wasn't getting any and that explained her anger and antagonism. LESSON LEARNED: Avoid sarcasm... it is often misunderstood by others.

Gojo would not have made the bombshell remark because he has never seen MM. He didn't say it.

LESSON for those posters who keep trying to psychoanalyze Jason's motives for the SUPPOSED affair with MM: You are approaching it with the female brain. Try to think like a male.... naw, forget that. Don't go there.

At any rate, for many males, but not necessarily for Jason, the adage applies: A guy doesn't need a reason, just a place.

--Jake

[raisincharlie]

Howdy,

I remember now. I've been scratching my head about that Gojo comment. It wasn't aimed at MM. It was a sarcastic comment aimed at another poster, Surfie.

I believe Gojo said maybe Surfie (surf girl) wasn't getting any and that explained her anger and antagonism. LESSON LEARNED: Avoid sarcasm... it is often misunderstood by others.

Gojo would not have made the bombshell remark because he has never seen MM. He didn't say it.

LESSON for those posters who keep trying to psychoanalyze Jason's motives for the SUPPOSED affair with MM: You are approaching it with the female brain. Try to think like a male.... naw, forget that. Don't go there.

At any rate, for many males, but not necessarily for Jason, the adage applies: A guy doesn't need a reason, just a place.

--Jake

Sorry Jake - that theory doesn't hold true - for example if Jason ran into MM and something happened I could agree but the truth here is JY was in daily contact by email or phone or text messages whatever for three months. The guy had a reason. Going out of state when, hopefully at least, living in a city the size of Raleigh there would have been a fair amount of women in the population and plenty of places - makes no sense unless one has a specific reason. The guy is a piece of work and I am definitely looking at from the male point of view.

[nanandjim]

Sorry Jake - that theory doesn't hold true - for example if Jason ran into MM and something happened I could agree but the truth here is JY was in daily contact by email or phone or text messages whatever for three months. The guy had a reason. Going out of state when, hopefully at least, living in a city the size of Raleigh there would have been a fair amount of women in the population and plenty of places - makes no sense unless one has a specific reason. The guy is a piece of work and I am definitely looking at from the male point of view.
I agree. Plus, being a "sales" guy, Jason could use the excuse of taking "customers" to nightclubs and bars. Women are a dime a dozen at these places; and there are plenty of opportunities for one-night stands. I saw it happening all of the time in my single days.

Why on earth would JY take the chance of having daily contact that could easily be traced?? He is either one very, very stupid man...or he was doing it for a reason... :waitasec:

[jake]

Sorry Jake - that theory doesn't hold true - for example if Jason ran into MM and something happened I could agree but the truth here is JY was in daily contact by email or phone or text messages whatever for three months. The guy had a reason. Going out of state when, hopefully at least, living in a city the size of Raleigh there would have been a fair amount of women in the population and plenty of places - makes no sense unless one has a specific reason. The guy is a piece of work and I am definitely looking at from the male point of view.

Howdy,

Then you might agree that often some young males don't think with the head on their shoulders. It's difficult for me even to discuss this because I haven't yet accepted the affair theory.

However, Jason was/is not the sort to frequent bars trolling for trollops. He had no office so no chance for a hookup there. Most of his college buds were married. So, why not Florida?

I think I know what you mean by "piece of work". But I won't go there. I'll just point out that Jason is a moral man with an excellent upbringing.
Those of us who know him are amazed that so many who don't know him can believe he could/would beat his wife and namesake to death.

And by the way.... that "daily contact" I hear so much about. I have yet to hear any police officer say how many of those daily messages were from Jason's wife Michelle. I know that both Jason and his wife called and emailed MM and other friends. Maybe eventually we'll hear some exact numbers on this.

--Jake

[raisincharlie]

Howdy,

Then you might agree that often some young males don't think with the head on their shoulders. It's difficult for me even to discuss this because I haven't yet accepted the affair theory.

However, Jason was/is not the sort to frequent bars trolling for trollops. He had no office so no chance for a hookup there. Most of his college buds were married. So, why not Florida?

I think I know what you mean by "piece of work". But I won't go there. I'll just point out that Jason is a moral man with an excellent upbringing.
Those of us who know him are amazed that so many who don't know him can believe he could/would beat his wife and namesake to death.

And by the way.... that "daily contact" I hear so much about. I have yet to hear any police officer say how many of those daily messages were from Jason's wife Michelle. I know that both Jason and his wife called and emailed MM and other friends. Maybe eventually we'll hear some exact numbers on this.

--Jake

Jake,

You might want to read the November 30th search warrant again - it very clearly states the daily communications involved Jason Young. No mention of Michelle Young period.

As to the rest, well you freely admit you ask no questions of Jason. You also admit you live in Brevard - so how can you be so sure about Jason's behavior during the years he lived in Raleigh ? How can you be so sure of how he treated his wife ? How can you be so sure of any of your claims ?

I feel sorry for you - I know you want to believe that Jason is as you remember and have known him. Can't blame you for that.

[nanandjim]

Howdy,

Then you might agree that often some young males don't think with the head on their shoulders. It's difficult for me even to discuss this because I haven't yet accepted the affair theory.

However, Jason was/is not the sort to frequent bars trolling for trollops. He had no office so no chance for a hookup there. Most of his college buds were married. So, why not Florida?

I think I know what you mean by "piece of work". But I won't go there. I'll just point out that Jason is a moral man with an excellent upbringing.
Those of us who know him are amazed that so many who don't know him can believe he could/would beat his wife and namesake to death.

And by the way.... that "daily contact" I hear so much about. I have yet to hear any police officer say how many of those daily messages were from Jason's wife Michelle. I know that both Jason and his wife called and emailed MM and other friends. Maybe eventually we'll hear some exact numbers on this.

--Jake
I know that this post was not addressed to me, but I feel compelled to put in my two cents' worth. I don't mean to offend, but you seem to be very naive or too close to Jason to be able to step back and view the situation objectively.

For the record, there are many successful men who have murdered their wives, spouses and/or children. Their families and friends were absolutely astounded to think that these men could murder anyone, especially loved ones. Many of these men had committed no crimes at all before they committed murder.

Adultery, financial problems, marital problems, pregnancy, secret lives, refusal to assist police, lawyering up are just some of the common traits that the other murdering spouses possessed. Can you see Jason fitting into any of these categories??

The police do not target individuals for the hell of it. If there were a random killer or someone else suspected of committing the crime, the police would target that individual. Of course, they would be working with the helpful spouse.

If Jason loved his wife, why hasn't he done everything in his power to eliminate himself as a suspect (a predicament that all spouses would find themselves in) and worked with the police to find the real killer of his wife and his son?

If my husband were murdered, I--an innocent party--would take a polygraph (although I would be nervous as heck) and work with the police to find the killer. I would in fact be calling the police on a regular basis to make sure that they were still working on the case.

Now, if I were guilty or had something to hide, I would hire an attorney and let the attorney talk to the police. I would refuse to take a polygraph. I would move away from the scene of the crime. I would tell my loved ones and friends that it was hard to go on...yada, yada, yada...

Observant people would know that actions speak louder than words. Most people would also ask the question, "What would I do if I were in a similar situation?"

Won't you at least admit that you would be more cooperative with police? The warrants have indicated that Jason, the husband, has not cooperated with police at all. So, if Jason is saying he has cooperated, who do you think is lying? Who stands more to gain? I can tell you that the police stand nothing to gain by pinning a murder on an innocent husband.

Jason, on the other hand, can gain his freedom, the house and life insurance. He also gains full custody of his daughter without having to pay child support. He apparently gains the sympathy of some of his friends and family, too. :rolleyes:

[Barney Fife]

Jake,

You might want to read the November 30th search warrant again - it very clearly states the daily communications involved Jason Young. No mention of Michelle Young period.

As to the rest, well you freely admit you ask no questions of Jason. You also admit you live in Brevard - so how can you be so sure about Jason's behavior during the years he lived in Raleigh ? How can you be so sure of how he treated his wife ? How can you be so sure of any of your claims ?

I feel sorry for you - I know you want to believe that Jason is as you remember and have known him. Can't blame you for that.

RC

Jake seems to think because his mother is good as gold (I really think she is by ALL accounts), Jason must be a "saint" and would never do anything that was taboo under his Mother's wholesome upbringing. We all know things change when you leave the house at 18. Jason is 32. He had that opportunity in those 14 years. In fact, the N&O article said he was "a late bloomer". My bet is he is totally different from the innocent young mountain boy that hiked the Appalachian trail way back when.

A sad example involves our basketball coach at NC State, Sidney Lowe. His 20 year old son was just arrested and charged with a string of serious offenses from felony drug possession to accessory to a shooting. Was Sidney a good father and did he teach his son good morals ? Absolutely he did. A 20 year old (and certainly 32 year old) makes his own decisions, sometimes totally opposite of what the careful upbring taught.

Jason Young was no saint. Far from it. In fact ,I have heard from people that know him very well. This is a direct quote from someone very close

· JY is a ‘shady” character even w/ his good friends. He did what he wanted to do, when he wanted to do it.
· They were not exactly ‘the model couple”. They did argue A LOT and weren't afraid to do it in front of us or anyone else.

[jake]

Jake,

You might want to read the November 30th search warrant again - it very clearly states the daily communications involved Jason Young. No mention of Michelle Young period.

As to the rest, well you freely admit you ask no questions of Jason. You also admit you live in Brevard - so how can you be so sure about Jason's behavior during the years he lived in Raleigh ? How can you be so sure of how he treated his wife ? How can you be so sure of any of your claims ?

I feel sorry for you - I know you want to believe that Jason is as you remember and have known him. Can't blame you for that.

Howdy,

About that search warrant.... I've said it before and I'll probably say it again: the police officers do everything they can to cast Jason in a negative way. I say this because I have been told that Michelle and Jason were in frequent contact with MM. Wouldn't you like to know the exact numbers before making a judgment? Do you think the media tried to get exact numbers? Do you think anyone cares? Just my opinion, of course.

This is just another example of the California trip "disinformation". If you remember that, police officers said Jason took a trip to California, without his wife and daughter. Period.

What you say about knowing someone is obvious and doesn't need to be said. When a young man goes off to the big city, the folks back home don't know how he conducts himself.

But we do know what he is capable of. Beating his wife and baby boy to death? No way.

--Jake

[raisincharlie]

Barney,

I too have seen many comments such as you post. I seriously doubt JY had so many enemies that some of these comments can't be true. Comments such as this are what most likely LE heard as well. I'm sure they heard some good ones also. Both of the comments you have shared are very telling, without the need to analyze, how the relationship between Michelle and Jason was. If it were just a few saying this, they could be overlooked, unfortuanately this seems to have a much higher rate of being said by those who knew them in Raleigh. JMO

[raisincharlie]

Howdy,

About that search warrant.... I've said it before and I'll probably say it again: the police officers do everything they can to cast Jason in a negative way. I say this because I have been told that Michelle and Jason were in frequent contact with MM. Wouldn't you like to know the exact numbers before making a judgment? Do you think the media tried to get exact numbers? Do you think anyone cares? Just my opinion, of course.

This is just another example of the California trip "disinformation". If you remember that, police officers said Jason took a trip to California, without his wife and daughter. Period.

What you say about knowing someone is obvious and doesn't need to be said. When a young man goes off to the big city, the folks back home don't know how he conducts himself.

But we do know what he is capable of. Beating his wife and baby boy to death? No way.

--Jake

Jake,

Sorry but I really don't need a number, what the warrant says is almost daily contact with Jason Young over three months - the number of times is irrelevant. It is also irrelevant if Michelle spoke with her friend. Since this information came directly from Ms. Money and not manufactured by the police, I fail to see how the police have made Jason look bad. I also fail to see why Ms. Money would say such a thing if not true since the police were there to obtain her computer. This warrant seems to indicate to me that the police were giving Jason the benefit of the doubt because they were indeed there to obtain the computer to verify what she relayed to them. I therefore must disagree with you on those points.

So are you saying that Jason did not take his family members on a trip to California or are you saying Michelle and Cassidy did indeed accompany Jason on that trip ? Or are you saying sources close to the investigation are lying and the trip never happened at all ? From the link below, what part of that is not true:

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/1201054/

"Sources close to the case say that Jason Young took that trip with family members that did not include his wife or daughter.

Another person -- identified as "Witness B" -- told investigators about the California trip, although the detective did not specify those details in the affidavit. The witness said Michelle Young was also "stressing about money and things Jason would go out and do."

[jake]

I know that this post was not addressed to me, but I feel compelled to put in my two cents' worth. I don't mean to offend, but you seem to be very naive or too close to Jason to be able to step back and view the situation objectively.

For the record, there are many successful men who have murdered their wives, spouses and/or children. Their families and friends were absolutely astounded to think that these men could murder anyone, especially loved ones. Many of these men had committed no crimes at all before they committed murder.

Adultery, financial problems, marital problems, pregnancy, secret lives, refusal to assist police, lawyering up are just some of the common traits that the other murdering spouses possessed. Can you see Jason fitting into any of these categories??

The police do not target individuals for the hell of it. If there were a random killer or someone else suspected of committing the crime, the police would target that individual. Of course, they would be working with the helpful spouse.

If Jason loved his wife, why hasn't he done everything in his power to eliminate himself as a suspect (a predicament that all spouses would find themselves in) and worked with the police to find the real killer of his wife and his son?

If my husband were murdered, I--an innocent party--would take a polygraph (although I would be nervous as heck) and work with the police to find the killer. I would in fact be calling the police on a regular basis to make sure that they were still working on the case.

Now, if I were guilty or had something to hide, I would hire an attorney and let the attorney talk to the police. I would refuse to take a polygraph. I would move away from the scene of the crime. I would tell my loved ones and friends that it was hard to go on...yada, yada, yada...

Observant people would know that actions speak louder than words. Most people would also ask the question, "What would I do if I were in a similar situation?"

Won't you at least admit that you would be more cooperative with police? The warrants have indicated that Jason, the husband, has not cooperated with police at all. So, if Jason is saying he has cooperated, who do you think is lying? Who stands more to gain? I can tell you that the police stand nothing to gain by pinning a murder on an innocent husband.

Jason, on the other hand, can gain his freedom, the house and life insurance. He also gains full custody of his daughter without having to pay child support. He apparently gains the sympathy of some of his friends and family, too. :rolleyes:

Howdy,

You say "many successful men..." have killed their wives. Sure, it can happen and does happen. But before I am surprised at it, I would have to have seen how they were reared. "As the twig is set, so the tree will grow." I know how Jason was reared.

YOU SAID: "Adultery, financial problems, marital problems, pregnancy, secret lives, refusal to assist police, lawyering up are just some of the common traits that the other murdering spouses possessed. Can you see Jason fitting into any of these categories??" END SNIP

Adultery: not proven.
Financial: Not true. I know the search warrant. Still not true.
Marital: Not proven. Rumors.
Pregnancy: A positive development. Both were happy about it.
Secret: I don't understand.
Assist police: You mean the police who from the beginning have been hostile?

You mean the police who from the beginning have accused him of beating his wife and baby boy to death?

You mean the police who have released nothing but incomplete, negative information?

You mean the police who from the beginning have shown their hostility by harassing his family?

You mean the police who from the beginning have accused him of not cooperating when what they really mean is that he will not submit to grilling by them?

Are these the police officers you mean?

--Jake

[jake]

Barney,

I too have seen many comments such as you post. I seriously doubt JY had so many enemies that some of these comments can't be true. Comments such as this are what most likely LE heard as well. I'm sure they heard some good ones also. Both of the comments you have shared are very telling, without the need to analyze, how the relationship between Michelle and Jason was. If it were just a few saying this, they could be overlooked, unfortuanately this seems to have a much higher rate of being said by those who knew them in Raleigh. JMO

Howdy,

I'm not going to ask you to prove your "many comments such as you post." What I have heard, and seen, is that Jason and Michelle had a wide variety of loyal friends.

I think if a man goes through life without making enemies, he probably has not lived a life true to himself. I think you can judge a man by WHO his enemies are and WHO his friends are. I know some of his friends but none of his enemies.

--Jake

[raisincharlie]

Howdy,

I'm not going to ask you to prove your "many comments such as you post." What I have heard, and seen, is that Jason and Michelle had a wide variety of loyal friends.

I think if a man goes through life without making enemies, he probably has not lived a life true to himself. I think you can judge a man by WHO his enemies are and WHO his friends are. I know some of his friends but none of his enemies.

--Jake

Jake,

You've read those posts as well on the many boards you are signed into. I don't doubt that Michelle and Jason had many friends and that they are indeed loyal. Truth is always an essential element of loyalty.

[raisincharlie]

Jake,

Your comments about Jason being such a moral fellow, and no way he could kill his wife and unborn son, finally reminded me of something.

A very nice, quiet, unassuming young woman, routine church goer, and no one could ever believe she did what she did.

http://news.aol.com/topnews/articles/_a/trial-nears-for-slain-pastors-wife/20070409064809990001?ncid=NWS0001000000000

"It was just building up to this point," Mary Winkler said, according to a statement taken by Alabama police. "I was just tired of it. I guess I just got to a point and snapped."

But friends have said they can't understand how someone as sweet and quiet as Mary Winkler could be charged with murder.

"This was a perfect family," Judy Turner, a member of the Winkler's McMinnville church, said just after Winkler was arrested.


Makes me wonder... ETA - her trial starts today, she was married for 10 years before this event.

[sweet peach]

Howdy,

You say "many successful men..." have killed their wives. Sure, it can happen and does happen. But before I am surprised at it, I would have to have seen how they were reared. "As the twig is set, so the tree will grow." I know how Jason was reared.

YOU SAID: "Adultery, financial problems, marital problems, pregnancy, secret lives, refusal to assist police, lawyering up are just some of the common traits that the other murdering spouses possessed. Can you see Jason fitting into any of these categories??" END SNIP

Adultery: not proven.
Financial: Not true. I know the search warrant. Still not true.
Marital: Not proven. Rumors.
Pregnancy: A positive development. Both were happy about it.
Secret: I don't understand.
Assist police: You mean the police who from the beginning have been hostile?

You mean the police who from the beginning have accused him of beating his wife and baby boy to death?

You mean the police who have released nothing but incomplete, negative information?

You mean the police who from the beginning have shown their hostility by harassing his family?

You mean the police who from the beginning have accused him of not cooperating when what they really mean is that he will not submit to grilling by them?

Are these the police officers you mean?

--Jake

Jake, I wasn't aware that the police had officially named him a suspect and accused him of beating his wife and baby boy to death. Nor was I aware that they were harrassing JY's family. What kind of harrassment have they been subjected to?

Also, I have to agree with others that just because you know that JY had a wonderful upbringing means absolutely nothing about the person he is today. Remember that whole "nature vs. nurture" argument? Well, IMO it's a bit of both, so I don't think that a healthy upbringing can guarantee a good person who is absolutely incapable of murder. JMO...

:)

[FactsareFacts]

Howdy,

You say "many successful men..." have killed their wives. Sure, it can happen and does happen. But before I am surprised at it, I would have to have seen how they were reared. "As the twig is set, so the tree will grow." I know how Jason was reared.

YOU SAID: "Adultery, financial problems, marital problems, pregnancy, secret lives, refusal to assist police, lawyering up are just some of the common traits that the other murdering spouses possessed. Can you see Jason fitting into any of these categories??" END SNIP

Adultery: not proven.
Financial: Not true. I know the search warrant. Still not true.
Marital: Not proven. Rumors.
Pregnancy: A positive development. Both were happy about it.
Secret: I don't understand.
Assist police: You mean the police who from the beginning have been hostile?

You mean the police who from the beginning have accused him of beating his wife and baby boy to death?

You mean the police who have released nothing but incomplete, negative information?

You mean the police who from the beginning have shown their hostility by harassing his family?

You mean the police who from the beginning have accused him of not cooperating when what they really mean is that he will not submit to grilling by them?

Are these the police officers you mean?

--Jake

No disrespect intended Jake but being so close to Jason seems to be preventing you from being objective.

I don't buy for a second that the police made up information to get their search warrants. They have proof IMO that there was indeed daily contact between MM and JY. They got that information from JY's cell phones and computers which led them to MM who confirmed the info and turned over her computer. Whether or not MM and MY communicated daily, weekly or monthly has nothing to do with those search warrants, Jasons cell phones and computer. I have no doubt that those communications leave little to the imagination as to the nature of their relationship, which is why MM admitted to investigators it had been sexual. Communicating daily with someone you are having a sexual relationship doesn't fit into the one night stand "any place" theory at all.

If JY is innocent then co-operating with the police can cause him no harm. If you really think this is some elaborate set up by police to frame Jason Young then why doesn't he go public and tell the world about this travesty of justice?

You know JY's family and maybe you knew JY well growing up as a boy, however he is a grown man who has spent almost half his life NOT living at home with family. Many, many things change as one becomes an adult. I also don't think you or anyone else would have the first clue about the Young's finances. Thats a private matter between a husband and a wife and if there is a financial problem many times that is embarassing for the couple and not something they are eager to share with anyone. Police have access to their financial information and have stated clearly that there were financial problems. I seriously doubt you or anyone else in Jason's family have seen such personal details.

You do realize police have to have proof to back up their claims don't you? Saying it doesn't make it so, evidence does the talking.

As hard as I am sure this is for you, I believe your going to have to face the reality that the Jason Young you knew as a boy is gone and all is not what it appears.:twocents:

[raisincharlie]

Have to agree with you sweetpeach.

Welcome to WS !:D

[5bigfish5]

Howdy,

Then you might agree that often some young males don't think with the head on their shoulders. It's difficult for me even to discuss this because I haven't yet accepted the affair theory.

However, Jason was/is not the sort to frequent bars trolling for trollops. He had no office so no chance for a hookup there. Most of his college buds were married. So, why not Florida?

I think I know what you mean by "piece of work". But I won't go there. I'll just point out that Jason is a moral man with an excellent upbringing.
Those of us who know him are amazed that so many who don't know him can believe he could/would beat his wife and namesake to death.

And by the way.... that "daily contact" I hear so much about. I have yet to hear any police officer say how many of those daily messages were from Jason's wife Michelle. I know that both Jason and his wife called and emailed MM and other friends. Maybe eventually we'll hear some exact numbers on this.

--Jake

Jake,

I beg to differ. Jason is NOT a "moral man". A moral man takes any and all promises he makes with another very serious, even if it is a "handshake deal".

Jason defiled a covenant that he stood up and made with Michelle before God. Nothing moral about that! Nothing at ALL!

5bigfish5

[jake]

Jake,

Sorry but I really don't need a number, what the warrant says is almost daily contact with Jason Young over three months - the number of times is irrelevant. It is also irrelevant if Michelle spoke with her friend. Since this information came directly from Ms. Money and not manufactured by the police, I fail to see how the police have made Jason look bad. I also fail to see why Ms. Money would say such a thing if not true since the police were there to obtain her computer. This warrant seems to indicate to me that the police were giving Jason the benefit of the doubt because they were indeed there to obtain the computer to verify what she relayed to them. I therefore must disagree with you on those points.

So are you saying that Jason did not take his family members on a trip to California or are you saying Michelle and Cassidy did indeed accompany Jason on that trip ? Or are you saying sources close to the investigation are lying and the trip never happened at all ? From the link below, what part of that is not true:

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/1201054/

"Sources close to the case say that Jason Young took that trip with family members that did not include his wife or daughter.

Another person -- identified as "Witness B" -- told investigators about the California trip, although the detective did not specify those details in the affidavit. The witness said Michelle Young was also "stressing about money and things Jason would go out and do."

Howdy,

I'm sorry you did not get to see the original story. You saw the corrected version. It was corrected after I let some people know the story was incomplete and left a false impression.

The Raleigh N&O didn't have the opportunity to correct their version because it was in print, unlike WRAL. However, the next day the N&O published an updated story also.

Here is the story as it appeared on Feb. 13 in the Raleigh News and Observer: SNIPPED OF COURSE:

Wife's money fears, fury detailed
Murder victim stressed over money, angry at husband's trip without her, warrant shows

Thomasi McDonald, Staff Writer
RALEIGH - Michelle Young was not only "stressing out over money" but about a California vacation authorities say her husband took without her, according to a search warrant.
SNIP

According to the search warrant, Sternberg talked with two witnesses about the California vacation. One said Michelle Young was "very, very" angry about the trip that her husband apparently took without her.
The second witness told Sternberg there was tension between the two as a result of Jason Young's California trip, according to the warrant.

As you can imagine, the CTV board had about five pages of posters guessing what Jason was doing while visiting the fleshpots of California. What a selfish moron to take off on a solo vacation and leave his poor wife and baby behind....etc.

The media relied on the search warrant for the information. The search warrant, I believe, was purposely incomplete. It didn't mention that it was a long-planned trip with Jason's mother, sister, brother in law.

The two A & B (younger) witnesses? Obviously not friends of Jason. The money? That had been planned for and budgeted also.

I've often wondered what would have happened if Jason had given up his constitutional rights and sat down to be grilled by police officers. Would these negative stories have come out differently? I think so.

I also wonder why I keep writing this story. I've done it before, and obviously it convinces no one. Others still believe Jason should "cooperate", give up his rights, submit to grilling, eh, an "interview".
I don't.

--Jake

[jake]

Jake, I wasn't aware that the police had officially named him a suspect and accused him of beating his wife and baby boy to death. Nor was I aware that they were harrassing JY's family. What kind of harrassment have they been subjected to?

Also, I have to agree with others that just because you know that JY had a wonderful upbringing means absolutely nothing about the person he is today. Remember that whole "nature vs. nurture" argument? Well, IMO it's a bit of both, so I don't think that a healthy upbringing can guarantee a good person who is absolutely incapable of murder. JMO...

:)

Howdy,

On the Nontestimonial warrants police officers said three times they think Jason was guilty. The most obvious harassment was the delay in returning confiscated items to family members. And yes, I know Jason brought it on by his standing on his rights. I believe the reaction of police officers has been childish.

Obviously there are no guarantees when raising kids. You do the best you can and then turn them loose. I understand that. I believe it is Jason's nature not to kill his wife and baby, and I believe that's also the way he was nurtured.

--Jake

[jake]

Jake,

Your comments about Jason being such a moral fellow, and no way he could kill his wife and unborn son, finally reminded me of something.

A very nice, quiet, unassuming young woman, routine church goer, and no one could ever believe she did what she did.

http://news.aol.com/topnews/articles/_a/trial-nears-for-slain-pastors-wife/20070409064809990001?ncid=NWS0001000000000

"It was just building up to this point," Mary Winkler said, according to a statement taken by Alabama police. "I was just tired of it. I guess I just got to a point and snapped."

But friends have said they can't understand how someone as sweet and quiet as Mary Winkler could be charged with murder.

"This was a perfect family," Judy Turner, a member of the Winkler's McMinnville church, said just after Winkler was arrested.


Makes me wonder... ETA - her trial starts today, she was married for 10 years before this event.

Howdy,

Thanks for the link. It certainly is a bewildering story. I see the point you want to make. But I don't agree that Jason in any way can be compared to the Winkler woman.

--Jake

[raisincharlie]

Howdy,

I'm sorry you did not get to see the original story. You saw the corrected version. It was corrected after I let some people know the story was incomplete and left a false impression.

The Raleigh N&O didn't have the opportunity to correct their version because it was in print, unlike WRAL. However, the next day the N&O published an updated story also.

Here is the story as it appeared on Feb. 13 in the Raleigh News and Observer: SNIPPED OF COURSE:

Wife's money fears, fury detailed
Murder victim stressed over money, angry at husband's trip without her, warrant shows

Thomasi McDonald, Staff Writer
RALEIGH - Michelle Young was not only "stressing out over money" but about a California vacation authorities say her husband took without her, according to a search warrant.
SNIP

According to the search warrant, Sternberg talked with two witnesses about the California vacation. One said Michelle Young was "very, very" angry about the trip that her husband apparently took without her.
The second witness told Sternberg there was tension between the two as a result of Jason Young's California trip, according to the warrant.

As you can imagine, the CTV board had about five pages of posters guessing what Jason was doing while visiting the fleshpots of California. What a selfish moron to take off on a solo vacation and leave his poor wife and baby behind....etc.

The media relied on the search warrant for the information. The search warrant, I believe, was purposely incomplete. It didn't mention that it was a long-planned trip with Jason's mother, sister, brother in law.

The two A & B (younger) witnesses? Obviously not friends of Jason. The money? That had been planned for and budgeted also.

I've often wondered what would have happened if Jason had given up his constitutional rights and sat down to be grilled by police officers. Would these negative stories have come out differently? I think so.

I also wonder why I keep writing this story. I've done it before, and obviously it convinces no one. Others still believe Jason should "cooperate", give up his rights, submit to grilling, eh, an "interview".
I don't.

--Jake



Jake,

The only difference I see is the N & O pretty much claimed that Michelle was angry because the trip was without her. I would say you should have a beef with that since the search warrant clearly does not say that. A bit of journalistic lattitude appears to have been taken by the N & O.

As to witness A & B, I don't think it should matter if they are friends of Jason's or not as long as they were truthful, that is the only thing that matters. And the search warrant, well Jake, they typically don't list every single detail about a subject. I think you should be careful what you wish for there - would you be happy if a search warrant exposed the details of an affair ? What you see as the police being purposefully negligent is actual quite diligent. I'm sure you and Jason's family would certainly not want every single detail listed for the public to read.

No you will not convince others that Jason is doing what he should be doing in your opinion - by being quiet. That is his right, so be it. The truth will be found regardless of what Jason would or could say to LE.

[jake]

Jake,

I beg to differ. Jason is NOT a "moral man". A moral man takes any and all promises he makes with another very serious, even if it is a "handshake deal".

Jason defiled a covenant that he stood up and made with Michelle before God. Nothing moral about that! Nothing at ALL!

5bigfish5

Howdy,

What you say may be true. I believe God will grant forgiveness for human mistakes before fellow humans will. We are a vengeful bunch. Yes, that includes me.

--Jake

[raisincharlie]

Howdy,

Thanks for the link. It certainly is a bewildering story. I see the point you want to make. But I don't agree that Jason in any way can be compared to the Winkler woman.

--Jake

No comparison intended - the event however is defintiely not far fetched and not impossible. So while you can say there is no way Jason could kill his wife and baby, the truth is no one can say that about anyone at anytime for any reason - it happens, no matter how perfect the marriage appears or how wonderful the person is, or wonderful their upbringing was, how moral they are, or whether they go to church or not. It happens.

[Scout]

Howdy,

I'm sorry you did not get to see the original story. You saw the corrected version. It was corrected after I let some people know the story was incomplete and left a false impression.

The Raleigh N&O didn't have the opportunity to correct their version because it was in print, unlike WRAL. However, the next day the N&O published an updated story also.

Here is the story as it appeared on Feb. 13 in the Raleigh News and Observer: SNIPPED OF COURSE:

Wife's money fears, fury detailed
Murder victim stressed over money, angry at husband's trip without her, warrant shows

Thomasi McDonald, Staff Writer
RALEIGH - Michelle Young was not only "stressing out over money" but about a California vacation authorities say her husband took without her, according to a search warrant.
SNIP

According to the search warrant, Sternberg talked with two witnesses about the California vacation. One said Michelle Young was "very, very" angry about the trip that her husband apparently took without her.
The second witness told Sternberg there was tension between the two as a result of Jason Young's California trip, according to the warrant.

As you can imagine, the CTV board had about five pages of posters guessing what Jason was doing while visiting the fleshpots of California. What a selfish moron to take off on a solo vacation and leave his poor wife and baby behind....etc.

The media relied on the search warrant for the information. The search warrant, I believe, was purposely incomplete. It didn't mention that it was a long-planned trip with Jason's mother, sister, brother in law.

The two A & B (younger) witnesses? Obviously not friends of Jason. The money? That had been planned for and budgeted also.

I've often wondered what would have happened if Jason had given up his constitutional rights and sat down to be grilled by police officers. Would these negative stories have come out differently? I think so.

I also wonder why I keep writing this story. I've done it before, and obviously it convinces no one. Others still believe Jason should "cooperate", give up his rights, submit to grilling, eh, an "interview".
I don't.

--Jake



This is the first I've heard about the California trip being long-planned and budgeted. Can you tell us more about that, Jake?

[jilly]

The media relied on the search warrant for the information. The search warrant, I believe, was purposely incomplete. It didn't mention that it was a long-planned trip with Jason's mother, sister, brother in law.[/B]

I thought you said Michelle couldn't go because she had been to her mother's and didn't have any vacation time left? If this was a long-planned trip, then wouldn't she have skipped the idea of going to her mother's and gone to Ca with the rest of them?

Maybe this was just a long-planned trip amongst the Young family without Michelle's knowledge. He could have booked the trip a week or so before going on the Visa (before the bill came in) and Michelle would have been none to the wise.

[raisincharlie]

I thought you said Michelle couldn't go because she had been to her mother's and didn't have any vacation time left? If this was a long-planned trip, then wouldn't she have skipped the idea of going to her mother's and gone to Ca with the rest of them?

Maybe this was just a long-planned trip amongst the Young family without Michelle's knowledge. He could have booked the trip a week or so before going on the Visa (before the bill came in) and Michelle would have been none to the wise.

Jilly,

I seem to recall the 'no vacation time left' excuse being used when the information about the trip first came to light as well. Seems it was used to discourage the 5 pages of jumping to conclusions about the trip.

[FactsareFacts]

I thought you said Michelle couldn't go because she had been to her mother's and didn't have any vacation time left? If this was a long-planned trip, then wouldn't she have skipped the idea of going to her mother's and gone to Ca with the rest of them?

Maybe this was just a long-planned trip amongst the Young family without Michelle's knowledge. He could have booked the trip a week or so before going on the Visa (before the bill came in) and Michelle would have been none to the wise.


It would also likely make her very angry to discover this had been planned and not discussed with her.

[jake]

No disrespect intended Jake but being so close to Jason seems to be preventing you from being objective.

I don't buy for a second that the police made up information to get their search warrants. They have proof IMO that there was indeed daily contact between MM and JY. They got that information from JY's cell phones and computers which led them to MM who confirmed the info and turned over her computer. Whether or not MM and MY communicated daily, weekly or monthly has nothing to do with those search warrants, Jasons cell phones and computer. I have no doubt that those communications leave little to the imagination as to the nature of their relationship, which is why MM admitted to investigators it had been sexual. Communicating daily with someone you are having a sexual relationship doesn't fit into the one night stand "any place" theory at all.

If JY is innocent then co-operating with the police can cause him no harm. If you really think this is some elaborate set up by police to frame Jason Young then why doesn't he go public and tell the world about this travesty of justice?

You know JY's family and maybe you knew JY well growing up as a boy, however he is a grown man who has spent almost half his life NOT living at home with family. Many, many things change as one becomes an adult. I also don't think you or anyone else would have the first clue about the Young's finances. Thats a private matter between a husband and a wife and if there is a financial problem many times that is embarassing for the couple and not something they are eager to share with anyone. Police have access to their financial information and have stated clearly that there were financial problems. I seriously doubt you or anyone else in Jason's family have seen such personal details.

You do realize police have to have proof to back up their claims don't you? Saying it doesn't make it so, evidence does the talking.

As hard as I am sure this is for you, I believe your going to have to face the reality that the Jason Young you knew as a boy is gone and all is not what it appears.:twocents:

Howdy,

I'm sure you are right about not being objective, no matter how hard I try. And I do.

I don't have enough information to discuss the MM story with you. My thoughts are jumbled with verified information and guess work from the message boards. I'll have to research more.

There is no way to know how many innocent people have been framed by police officers. It does happen but I can't give you links to it. Jason and his lawyer decided on the stragegy of standing on his rights. I can understand that.

Finances? I do happen to know that the combined income of the Youngs was such they had no real financial problems. They budgeted for things the same as I do. When unforseen items arise, as the broken garage door, the heat pump, etc., they did what I do: the best they can.

I have wondered about those search warrants. I know the police should not lie on them, but the warrants can be written in such as way that a judge can sign them in good conscience. If this goes to court, it will be interesting to see how many of the warrants stand up. Evidence gained by a faulty warrant will not be admitted.

--Jake

[jilly]

It would also likely make her very angry to discover this had been planned and not discussed with her.

No kidding! The part about budgeting is a stretch as well imo. First of all, I would guess that Michelle did all the budgeting in that family and secondly can't imagine her or any woman approving of this expense unless they were rolling in money!

[Barney Fife]

Howdy,

I'm sure you are right about not being objective, no matter how hard I try. And I do.

I don't have enough information to discuss the MM story with you. My thoughts are jumbled with verified information and guess work from the message boards. I'll have to research more.

There is no way to know how many innocent people have been framed by police officers. It does happen but I can't give you links to it. Jason and his lawyer decided on the stragegy of standing on his rights. I can understand that.

Finances? I do happen to know that the combined income of the Youngs was such they had no real financial problems. They budgeted for things the same as I do. When unforseen items arise, as the broken garage door, the heat pump, etc., they did what I do: the best they can.

I have wondered about those search warrants. I know the police should not lie on them, but the warrants can be written in such as way that a judge can sign them in good conscience. If this goes to court, it will be interesting to see how many of the warrants stand up. Evidence gained by a faulty warrant will not be admitted.

--Jake


There are plenty of people with VERY substantial incomes that live over their heads and have financial issues. Having said that, I agree with you. I do not believe the Young's had serious financial problems and that will not be part of their case to the jury

[Barney Fife]

No kidding! The part about budgeting is a stretch as well imo. First of all, I would guess that Michelle did all the budgeting in that family and secondly can't imagine her or any woman approving of this expense unless they were rolling in money!

If it was planned, it was planned in advance by Jason and his Brevard family. MOO,MY heard about it at the last minute

[Scout]

If it was planned, it was planned in advance by Jason and his Brevard family. MOO,MY heard about it at the last minute

Are you saying that not only did Jason treat his family to a California vacation without his wife and daughter, but he planned the trip without her knowledge, as well?

[Barney Fife]

Are you saying that not only did Jason treat his family to a California vacation without his wife and daughter, but he planned the trip without her knowledge, as well?

Would be my guess. Like his close friend said .....
"He did what he wanted to do, when he wanted to do it."

[FactsareFacts]

Are you saying that not only did Jason treat his family to a California vacation without his wife and daughter, but he planned the trip without her knowledge, as well?



Oh boy if JY was my husband and I discovered that..........:behindbar . I might be behind bars. Thats a betrayal on a whole new level!

[raisincharlie]

<snip>
I have wondered about those search warrants. I know the police should not lie on them, but the warrants can be written in such as way that a judge can sign them in good conscience. If this goes to court, it will be interesting to see how many of the warrants stand up. Evidence gained by a faulty warrant will not be admitted.

--Jake

Jake,

I hope you are not hanging your hat on the above. Every defense lawyer in the world will argue a warrant is not admissable, that is their job and SOP.

To be lawful, the search would require two things:

ONE: Probable cause to suspect that the search would reveal certain evidence identified in the warrant application. The legal status of the search depends on what the police/sheriff’s deputies reasonably suspected at the time of the application, and on the reliability of the information on which that suspicion was founded.

TWO: That the place to be searched and the items sought were described in the warrant with reasonable specificity.

The police are entitled to rely on apparently credible information and proceed in good faith.

[sweet peach]

Have to agree with you sweetpeach.

Welcome to WS !:D

Thanks raisin!

:p

[sweet peach]

Oh boy if JY was my husband and I discovered that..........:behindbar . I might be behind bars. Thats a betrayal on a whole new level!

ITA. If that's the case, I could understand if MY possibly started to think about divorce since her hubby clearly wasn't concerned about including her and Cassidy. JMO.

[FactsareFacts]

ITA. If that's the case, I could understand if MY possibly started to think about divorce since her hubby clearly wasn't concerned about including her and Cassidy. JMO.


Imagine discovering the CA trip and then maybe a short time later finding out your husband was having an affair with your close friend? I don't know about therapy fixing things but I sure as heck would be thinking of ending my marriage in light of those 2 discoveries.:furious:

[Barney Fife]

I posted this as 'food for thought" on another board:

There may have been a print out on various Coach purses that was for MM. MY found it when she went back up stairs to check her e-mail before going to bed. There was an 11 pm call from Jason and HELL broke lose. She said she wanted a divorce, ect and do not come home. After she hung up on him, he tried to call back and she would not answer.He then jumped in the suv at 11:15 pm and drove to Raleigh ...arriving at 2 am. They argued and he 'lost it"...the rest is history.

[raisincharlie]

Wow, you ladies are brutal :D

I can't imagine why that would make you sooooo mad :crazy: .

I know one thing - my wife would skin me alive for that kind of bs, I would not only need a good doctor but also the therapy.:crazy:

[snowshuze]

It still doesn't make alot of sense to me that Jason's family even took this trip without discussing it with Michelle FIRST. Especially when finding out she and Cassidy were not coming along? Something is just not adding up for me.

[raisincharlie]

I posted this as 'food for thought" on another board:

There may have been a print out on various Coach purses that was for MM. MY young found it when she went back up stairs to check her e-mail before going to bed. There was an 11 pm call from Jason and HELL broke lose. She said she wanted a divorce, ect and do not come home. After she hung up on him, he tried to call back and she would not answer.He then jumped in the suv at 11:15 pm and drove to Raleigh ...arriving at 2 am. They argued and he 'lost it"...the rest is history.

Maybe the answering machine removed from the bedroom will shed some light on that Barney. Sounds like a reasonable theory when viewed with all the other stuff going on at the time. Makes a lot of sense when thinking about that trip to Brevard and calling Meredith.

[sweet peach]

Wow, you ladies are brutal :D

I can't imagine why that would make you sooooo mad :crazy: .

I know one thing - my wife would skin me alive for that kind of bs, I would not only need a good doctor but also the therapy.:crazy:

You got it, raisin! And wouldn't his family think it was a bit weird that he wanted to plan a vacation that didn't include his wife and child? I don't know, but I think my fam would wonder if there was trouble in paradise if I payed for a vacation for everyone but my fiance! Seems odd to me, but that's jmo.

[raisincharlie]

It still doesn't make alot of sense to me that Jason's family even took this trip without discussing it with Michelle FIRST. Especially when finding out she and Cassidy were not coming along? Something is just not adding up for me.

Snowshuze - I think you have it all added up !:cool:

[caffeinatd]

I posted this as 'food for thought" on another board:

There may have been a print out on various Coach purses that was for MM. MY young found it when she went back up stairs to check her e-mail before going to bed. There was an 11 pm call from Jason and HELL broke lose. She said she wanted a divorce, ect and do not come home. After she hung up on him, he tried to call back and she would not answer.He then jumped in the suv at 11:15 pm and drove to Raleigh ...arriving at 2 am. They argued and he 'lost it"...the rest is history.
RPD, I agree with the idea of the purse for MM., I bet the shipping address was hers...I would have wanted a divorce too...JMOO

[snowshuze]

Wow, you ladies are brutal :D

I can't imagine why that would make you sooooo mad :crazy: .

I know one thing - my wife would skin me alive for that kind of bs, I would not only need a good doctor but also the therapy.:crazy:

Raisin, if my hubby went around asking all my lady friends about buying me a purse, they would be suggesting HE be the one needing therapy. :waitasec:

[raisincharlie]

You got it, raisin! And wouldn't his family think it was a bit weird that he wanted to plan a vacation that didn't include his wife and child? I don't know, but I think my fam would wonder if there was trouble in paradise if I payed for a vacation for everyone but my fiance! Seems odd to me, but that's jmo.

Dunno - perhaps JY was extremely good at inventing excuses. Lets get the wife a coach purse for her anniversary that was a month ago, oh nooo, that is a Christmas present, yeah Christmas present...:banghead:

[raisincharlie]

Raisin, if my hubby went around asking all my lady friends about buying me a purse, they would be suggesting HE be the one needing therapy. :waitasec:

And I would agree - I learned my lesson about buying a purse a long time ago.:p

[snowshuze]

And I would agree - I learned my lesson about buying a purse a long time ago.:p


Bright red alligator? White after Labor Day? Do tell. :D

[jilly]

And I would agree - I learned my lesson about buying a purse a long time ago.:p

LOL - I bought a beautiful purse for my daughter for Easter....I had to take it back this morning!:p

[citygirl]

You got it, raisin! And wouldn't his family think it was a bit weird that he wanted to plan a vacation that didn't include his wife and child? I don't know, but I think my fam would wonder if there was trouble in paradise if I payed for a vacation for everyone but my fiance! Seems odd to me, but that's jmo.

This is my first post.I've been lurking for quite sometime. All the posters here seem to have so much common sense .

I believe that prior to the one week vacation , his wife had just returned after spending 2 weeks at her mothers recuperating from the loss of her baby.

The way I see it , the husband "already" had a vacation. Home alone for 2 weeks ; no wife, no children to deal with ? What mother wouldn't love to have that luxury for just one day ? Then, he skips out for a week with his family ?

I think there was trouble in paradise.

MOO

[raisincharlie]

Bright red alligator? White after Labor Day? Do tell. :D

Actually, she quite liked it, the problem was none of her shoes worked with it, nor any of her wardrobe. Good excuse for a major shopping spree. Thankfully I did not spend $500 on the bloody thing - I can only imagine the wardrobe necessary to match that!:D

[raisincharlie]

This is my first post.I've been lurking for quite sometime. All the posters here seem to have so much common sense .

I believe that prior to the one week vacation , his wife had just returned after spending 2 weeks at her mothers recuperating from the loss of her baby.

The way I see it , the husband "already" had a vacation. Home alone for 2 weeks ; no wife, no children to deal with ? What mother wouldn't love to have that luxury for just one day ? Then, he skips out for a week with his family ?

I think there was trouble in paradise.

MOO

Hello Citygirl - and welcome! I must say, your post makes considerable sense. I do believe you are correct that there was trouble, the paradise I think was long gone however.

[Samiya]

Wow, you ladies are brutal :D

I can't imagine why that would make you sooooo mad :crazy: .

I know one thing - my wife would skin me alive for that kind of bs, I would not only need a good doctor but also the therapy.:crazy:


lol, I'm sure a really nice ME would write your death off as Natural Causes: Blatant Stupidity.

Now, where's that nice big cheesy cheeky grin emoticon?
Oh here it is

:D

lol
Sami

[citygirl]

Hello Citygirl - and welcome! I must say, your post makes considerable sense. I do believe you are correct that there was trouble, the paradise I think was long gone however.

Thanks for the welcome. I've *seen* you around town and enjoy your solid posts. Haven't read the TOS . Do I have to say MOO around here ?

[jilly]

It still doesn't make alot of sense to me that Jason's family even took this trip without discussing it with Michelle FIRST. Especially when finding out she and Cassidy were not coming along? Something is just not adding up for me.

Maybe he was moaning to his family about Michelle. Somehow, I get the feeling that they were not all that fond of her just from what I've been reading and not reading!

Who knows what he said to them and if they knew they were having problems, they might have just decided to not get involved with that aspect of it and let jy deal with it.

[raisincharlie]

lol, I'm sure a really nice ME would write your death off as Natural Causes: Blatant Stupidity.

Now, where's that nice big cheesy cheeky grin emoticon?
Oh here it is

:D

lol
Sami

Sami,

It didn't take as long as I thought it would for you to jump on that one ! Rendering birth certificate as a useless document :D pitching now!

[Samiya]

When I first heard that he took family members on a vaca to CA, I played devil's advocate and thought he might have originally booked it for him, Chelle and Cassidy, but Chelle couldn't go because she'd used vaca time to go to NY....

Then 'someone' posted how many family members went and blew that 'devil's advocate thought' to the bottom of the ocean with the rest of the Titanics.

Sami

[snowshuze]

Maybe he was moaning to his family about Michelle. Somehow, I get the feeling that they were not all that fond of her just from what I've been reading and not reading!

Who knows what he said to them and if they knew they were having problems, they might have just decided to not get involved with that aspect of it and let jy deal with it.
But.........but..... he was BETWEEN JOBS! :eek:

[Samiya]

Sami,

It didn't take as long as I thought it would for you to jump on that one ! Rendering birth certificate as a useless document :D pitching now!

:crazy:

Just........couldn't help myself! Too good an op to miss :)

Sami

[Samiya]

But.........but..... he was BETWEEN JOBS! :eek:

Yep.....If he didn't get a job soon to pay for that little sojourn...guess who would be paying for it along with trying to keep on top of all other bills with her wage.

Yep, I'd be peeved too and he'd be sleepin wid da fishies.

Sami

[raisincharlie]

Thanks for the welcome. I've *seen* you around town and enjoy your solid posts. Haven't read the TOS . Do I have to say MOO around here ?

Citygirl.

MOO - note that a lot of us put a reference to the MOO in our sig lines at the bottom. MOO isn't always necessary but I would recommend it if your statement could be misconstrued as something other than your opinion. Now that was really helpful wasn't it ?

[jilly]

When I first heard that he took family members on a vaca to CA, I played devil's advocate and thought he might have originally booked it for him, Chelle and Cassidy, but Chelle couldn't go because she'd used vaca time to go to NY....

Then 'someone' posted how many family members went and blew that 'devil's advocate thought' to the bottom of the ocean with the rest of the Titanics.

Sami

LOL Sami!

I'm still not sure that she had used up her vacation time. I'm thinking she would get more than 2 weeks a year. If I was playing devil's advocate here, I think it would make more sense to say that she had not actually booked the time off.

I agree with others though - she didn't know about this until the last minute.

[jilly]

But.........but..... he was BETWEEN JOBS! :eek:

Wouldn't make any difference to him imo. In fact, from what I've read, he probably would have thought it was the perfect time to go!:crazy:

[nanandjim]

...As hard as I am sure this is for you, I believe your going to have to face the reality that the Jason Young you knew as a boy is gone and all is not what it appears.:twocents:
Good post. I totally agree with you. Unfortunately, something caused JY to go awry. I don't understand it. I could never do it. Apparently, many husbands have. There are probably just as many who have gotten away with it as there are that have been caught.

Heck, Justin Barber even shot himself four times to make it appear that a random guy approached his wife and him on a lonely beach in Jacksonville. It took many years to bring him to justice. I believe his wife's (April) family were constantly in touch with police.

Justin grew up in a good family, had a master's degree, was very successful and outgoing. His outer veneer, so to speak, was very presentable. Then, when you looked deeper, he was having flings and affairs, was gambling and in debt; and his wife was going to leave him. Almost forgot to mention that there was a large life insurance policy on the wife.

Of course, he and his family say that the police targeted him from the beginning. Surprise, surprise...

Justin had deleted his internet searches of "gunshot wounds to the chest." He also had downloaded songs, one of which he deleted after her murder. It was something about "I used to love her, but I had to kill her."

Thank God that the police were finally able to gather enough evidence to take this guy to trial and convict him. Like I said, it took years; but it did finally happen.

So, my advice to Jason: Keep looking over your shoulder because one day you may be approached by the men in blue. ;)

[nanandjim]

...Others still believe Jason should "cooperate", give up his rights, submit to grilling, eh, an "interview".
I don't.

As Dr. Phil says, "People who have nothing to hide, hide nothing." You apparently feel that Jason has a lot to hide. Police must work from the inner circle out. They have to be able to eliminate the inner circle of family and friends to focus all of their efforts outward. Jason apparently doesn't care whether they find the murderer of his wife and son. Can you tell me if he has received Michelle's life insurance money yet? Is the home for sale? He should be sitting pretty for a while, don't you think? I guess that finding the "real" murderer is the least of his concerns.

As far as I am concerned, you are correct. Your statements fall on deaf ears with me because they make no sense. The only argument that you can give for the reason that Jason won't cooperate with the police is that they will grill him and have harrassed his family. Is Jason really that fragile?

Geez...his wife was viciously beaten to death. He also lost the son that he was so eagerly awaiting. Don't you think that would enrage the average guy and make the average guy put aside his sensitive feelings to get to the bottom of this crime?

[jilly]

As Dr. Phil says, "People who have nothing to hide, hide nothing." You apparently feel that Jason has a lot to hide. Police must work from the inner circle out. They have to be able to eliminate the inner circle of family and friends to focus all of their efforts outward. Jason apparently doesn't care whether they find the murderer of his wife and son. Can you tell me if he has received Michelle's life insurance money yet? Is the home for sale? He should be sitting pretty for a while, don't you think? I guess that finding the "real" murderer is the least of his concerns.

As far as I am concerned, you are correct. Your statements fall on deaf ears with me because they make no sense. The only argument that you can give for the reason that Jason won't cooperate with the police is that they will grill him and have harrassed his family. Is Jason really that fragile?

Geez...his wife was viciously beaten to death. He also lost the son that he was so eagerly awaiting. Don't you think that would enrage the average guy and make the average guy put aside his sensitive feelings to get to the bottom of this crime?

:clap: You said it well Nan!

[j2mirish]

Howdy,

On the Nontestimonial warrants police officers said three times they think Jason was guilty. The most obvious harassment was the delay in returning confiscated items to family members. And yes, I know Jason brought it on by his standing on his rights. I believe the reaction of police officers has been childish.

Obviously there are no guarantees when raising kids. You do the best you can and then turn them loose. I understand that. I believe it is Jason's nature not to kill his wife and baby, and I believe that's also the way he was nurtured.

--Jake
not being a smart a++ here, but do you suppose you could interview any convicted murderer, who was raised to believe it is ok to murder someone-? I have to agree with all the other posters, he has long been gone from the nest--- how many people say of a convicted killer...." WE WOULD HAVE NEVER BELIEVED IT< OR THOUGHT IT? "

[j2mirish]

Howdy,

Thanks for the link. It certainly is a bewildering story. I see the point you want to make. But I don't agree that Jason in any way can be compared to the Winkler woman.

--Jake

why not?

[Samiya]

OT but when you look at your profile....does anyone know what 'referrals' means?? I have one 'referral' and darned if I know what that means.

Have I been bad, lol.

Sami

[Samiya]

So Jake.............

Has Jason even enquired about the investigation into his wife's death and how it is coming along?

Sami

[citygirl]

Citygirl.

MOO - note that a lot of us put a reference to the MOO in our sig lines at the bottom. MOO isn't always necessary but I would recommend it if your statement could be misconstrued as something other than your opinion. Now that was really helpful wasn't it ?


Yes. Moooooooooooooo !!!!!!!!

[5bigfish5]

Wow, you ladies are brutal :D

I can't imagine why that would make you sooooo mad :crazy: .

I know one thing - my wife would skin me alive for that kind of bs, I would not only need a good doctor but also the therapy.:crazy:

Raisin Charlie,

Haven't met you wife. Sure we would get along famously!

Jason not only disrespected his marriage, but also the marrriage of one of his male friends.

NO BOUNDARIES! Need I say more?

5bigfish5

[Taximom]

OT but when you look at your profile....does anyone know what 'referrals' means?? I have one 'referral' and darned if I know what that means.

Have I been bad, lol.

Sami

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25927&highlight=referrals

You aren't the only one that wanted to know!

[nanandjim]

...
There is no way to know how many innocent people have been framed by police officers.
Come on, Jake. Is this the best that you can do? Do you think that the police are going to risk their careers and being prosecuted to manufacture evidence in order to convict Jason?

[Samiya]

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25927&highlight=referrals

You aren't the only one that wanted to know!

Sigh of relief.....

TY hon! I thought I'd been a bad girl and that it was some kind of 3 strikes ta ta thing.

I feel better now :)

Hugs
Sami

[Samiya]

Come on, Jake. Is this the best that you can do? Do you think that the police are going to risk their careers and being prosecuted to manufacture evidence in order to convict Jason?

Obviously he, or someone he knows (Hi Gerry) thinks so.

If they were going to manufacture evidence to make Jason fit the crime he would've been arrested within a week of her death. Actually if they had it in for him bad enough to do that BS, he wouldn't have made her funeral!

"the tree has shed it's bark".

Sami

[raisincharlie]

Raisin Charlie,

Haven't met you wife. Sure we would get along famously!

Jason not only disrespected his marriage, but also the marrriage of one of his male friends.

NO BOUNDARIES! Need I say more?

5bigfish5

No Boundaries - certainly tells a lot doesn't it ? Excellent point.

[Barney Fife]

I would be willing to bet Jake has not spoken to Jason in years.The days of JY hanging around his house seeing his own kids have been long gone His wife is a good friend of Mrs Young. That is the extent of his relationship with JY as it stands today. Local gossip around Brevard, what he gets from his wife and....what he gets from these boards.

[raisincharlie]

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


Yes. Moooooooooooooo !!!!!!!!

That rocks !

[citygirl]

I would be willing to bet Jake has not spoken to Jason in years.The days of JY hanging around his house seeing his own kids have been long gone His wife is a good friend of Mrs Young. That is the extent of his relationship with JY as it stands today. Local gossip around Brevard, what he gets from his wife and....what he gets from these boards.

So, he's just fixated like the rest of us ? I was thinking there are some kernels of truth in what he posts . Yet, in recent days it seems he may not have even been in the house , only relying on photos ? Has he ever added to the discussion about a back staircase ?

[Barney Fife]

So, he's just fixated like the rest of us ? I was thinking there are some kernels of truth in what he posts . Yet, in recent days it seems he may not have even been in the house , only relying on photos ? Has he ever added to the discussion about a back staircase ?

He has never responded to any more questions about the house because he has no idea about the house layout or back stairs. I think there are "kernels of truth" in some of what he posts. Again, info he gets from his wife talking to Mrs Young. He also may be e-mailing JTF and getting info from her ?

[jilly]

He has never responded to any more questions about the house because he has no idea about the house layout or back stairs. I think there are "kernels of truth" in some of what he posts. Again, info he gets from his wife talking to Mrs Young. He also may be e-mailing JTF and getting info from her ?

So what was the original story here? Did his wife go up to Raleigh when LE released jy's vehicle and she drove the Young's car back? I don't know why I was under the impression that he had gone to Raleigh too.

[Barney Fife]

So what was the original story here? Did his wife go up to Raleigh when LE released jy's vehicle and she drove the Young's car back? I don't know why I was under the impression that he had gone to Raleigh too.

His wife and Mrs Young went in late November I think he said ? He did tell us he drove the SUV back. I assumed his wife dropped him at R Smiths office on 1-4-07 when the SUV was released.

[raisincharlie]

Well, Jake got me to thinking today. I've taken a step or two back and have done some reflection on some things. For some reason I went back to a post about there being two rooms for the families at the viewing. One for the Youngs and one for the Fishers. We know from watching the video from the funeral that there was no unity between the Youngs and the Fishers during the funeral. Jake has made it a point on more than one occasion to comment about Meredith running back and forth at the funeral service to talk to Jason.

Been doing a lot of studying about that with a bit of relatively new items to add. We find out that Michelle was seeing a therapist, we find out JY went on a vacation without his wife and daughter. We also find out that Michelle went to NY to spend time with her Mom before this vacation.

Now I'm wondering - does it not seem obvious LF believed from the beginning that Jason murdered Michelle ?

Did Michelle tell LF some things when she went to NY that upon reflecting, led LF to believe that JY murdered Michelle ?

Why did JY not take Cassidy on the vacation ? Did he not want Cassidy to go ? Did Michelle tell him Cassidy was not going ?

Did Michelle have enough time with a therapist to relay the same things to the therapist that led LF to believe JY murdered Michelle?


hmmm...

[sweet peach]

Obviously he, or someone he knows (Hi Gerry) thinks so.

If they were going to manufacture evidence to make Jason fit the crime he would've been arrested within a week of her death. Actually if they had it in for him bad enough to do that BS, he wouldn't have made her funeral!

"the tree has shed it's bark".

Sami

Exactly, Sami. If LE is manufacturing evidence to make Jason the guilty party, they sure are doing a crappy job! We're 5 months out now...he would have been long gone if they had decided to pin this on him just for fun. JMO.

[jilly]

His wife and Mrs Young went in late November I think he said ? He did tell us he drove the SUV back. I assumed his wife dropped him at R Smiths office on 1-4-07 when the SUV was released.

Ohhh, ok....I thought he had driven a vehicle back. I had forgotten that Mrs gojo had accompanied Mrs Y (for "support") when the house was released. So then of course he hasn't been in the house and is just going by photos. Thank you!

[The Saint]

Howdy,

Then you might agree that often some young males don't think with the head on their shoulders. It's difficult for me even to discuss this because I haven't yet accepted the affair theory.

However, Jason was/is not the sort to frequent bars trolling for trollops. He had no office so no chance for a hookup there. Most of his college buds were married. So, why not Florida?

I think I know what you mean by "piece of work". But I won't go there. I'll just point out that Jason is a moral man with an excellent upbringing.
Those of us who know him are amazed that so many who don't know him can believe he could/would beat his wife and namesake to death.

And by the way.... that "daily contact" I hear so much about. I have yet to hear any police officer say how many of those daily messages were from Jason's wife Michelle. I know that both Jason and his wife called and emailed MM and other friends. Maybe eventually we'll hear some exact numbers on this.

--Jake

namesake? so they did have a name picked out for the baby boy - Jason Jr. was killed at his father's hand that night as well as Michelle.

unless Michelle hacked into jay's email account and was using HIS
group of cellphones, I think that LE knows which emails and calls originated form jay to MM.

unless Michelle not only hacked into jay's email account and PRETENDED to be jay and sent mash email notes to MM, I think it is safe to assume jay wrote those emails.

why do you think the posters here who speak of affairs are women and speak only from the female perspective about affairs?
there are men and women who post on this board. both have commented on jay's affair with MM.

as far as not having an office, it didn't stop jay from congregating with
a group of female co-workers and lamenting about his sex life with his wife.

jay a moral man? you don't really know him at all, jake. you knew him as a boy not a sexually active grown man.

imo

[DEPUTYDAWG]

Obviously he, or someone he knows (Hi Gerry) thinks so.

If they were going to manufacture evidence to make Jason fit the crime he would've been arrested within a week of her death. Actually if they had it in for him bad enough to do that BS, he wouldn't have made her funeral!
"the tree has shed it's bark".

Sami

Ummm, yeah! If one is going to risk or ruin their career, one should at least make sure they find the proverbial smoking gun or something!

Sheesh. And let's not forget that this was a horrific crime where a pregnant lady was beaten to death. I'm sure the officers decided to play around with this case and frame an innocent guy...and let the monster who did this roam the streets.................

BTW, Hi Sami!

[jilly]

Well, Jake got me to thinking today. I've taken a step or two back and have done some reflection on some things. For some reason I went back to a post about there being two rooms for the families at the viewing. One for the Youngs and one for the Fishers. We know from watching the video from the funeral that there was no unity between the Youngs and the Fishers during the funeral. Jake has made it a point on more than one occasion to comment about Meredith running back and forth at the funeral service to talk to Jason.

Been doing a lot of studying about that with a bit of relatively new items to add. We find out that Michelle was seeing a therapist, we find out JY went on a vacation without his wife and daughter. We also find out that Michelle went to NY to spend time with her Mom before this vacation.

Now I'm wondering - does it not seem obvious LF believed from the beginning that Jason murdered Michelle ?

Did Michelle tell LF some things when she went to NY that upon reflecting, led LF to believe that JY murdered Michelle ?

Why did JY not take Cassidy on the vacation ? Did he not want Cassidy to go ? Did Michelle tell him Cassidy was not going ?

Did Michelle have enough time with a therapist to relay the same things to the therapist that led LF to believe JY murdered Michelle?


hmmm...

RC,

I have always though that LF knew from the beginning. In her first plea to the public she asked for anyone who had seen or heard anything to come forward. Quote:

“I’m asking for anyone who has seen or heard anything, as trivial as you might think it is, anything, to please come forward, and help find the person who murdered our daughter."

She didn't ask if anyone knew who did this. I don't know...I may be reading too much into it but that just jumped out at me.

I'm sure Michelle poured her heart out to her mom during that two weeks. She was an emotional wreck at that point what with losing the baby etc.

I would think the reason jy didn't want Cassidy on the vacation was because he didn't feel it was right to expect others to babysit while he was having a good time. Perhaps all of them planned on going to a casino or whatever.

It would be good to know how many sessions Michelle had with the therapist. Sessions are usually 1 hour and you can talk alot during that time. The first few sessions involve mostly the client talking and the therapist getting a feel for the situation and asking a few of questions. So whatever she told the therapist in one or two sessions could be enough for LE to get a handle on the situation.jmo

[Samiya]

Ummm, yeah! If one is going to risk or ruin their career, one should at least make sure they find the proverbial smoking gun or something!

Sheesh. And let's not forget that this was a horrific crime where a pregnant lady was beaten to death. I'm sure the officers decided to play around with this case and frame an innocent guy...and let the monster who did this roam the streets.................

BTW, Hi Sami!

Or make their own smoking gun! lmao. Rather pathetic accusation isn't it?

Hi DD!

How you been hon? Our friend would've loved Easter me thinks....I can picture all those choccies and him in the middle drooling, lmao.

Hugs
Sami

[Barney Fife]

Howdy,

Finances? I do happen to know that the combined income of the Young's was such they had no real financial problems. They budgeted for things the same as I do. When unforeseen items arise, as the broken garage door, the heat pump, etc., they did what I do: the best they can.
--Jake

Jake

We did a little snooping around on the register of deeds web site...faciscnating

1- Birchlief house was sold for $379k with a $$307k 1st mortgage. There is second mortgage of $57k. If he sold tomorrow, after paying the 6%, he has ZERO equity in the house

2- The town Home. Bought for $159k 2 years ago (bought Ryan Schaad out) and has 1st mortgage of $131k. + 2 equity loans of $15,500 and $15,900. ....ZERO equity here

I don't know Jake. Sounds like a bit of financial hurt with the 2nd baby on the way and Michelle going part time. I would be very stressed if this were my financial condition. That $1mm life policy could bail him out in more ways than one :twocents:

[The Saint]

Howdy,

You say "many successful men..." have killed their wives. Sure, it can happen and does happen. But before I am surprised at it, I would have to have seen how they were reared. "As the twig is set, so the tree will grow." I know how Jason was reared.

YOU SAID: "Adultery, financial problems, marital problems, pregnancy, secret lives, refusal to assist police, lawyering up are just some of the common traits that the other murdering spouses possessed. Can you see Jason fitting into any of these categories??" END SNIP

Adultery: not proven.
Financial: Not true. I know the search warrant. Still not true.
Marital: Not proven. Rumors.
Pregnancy: A positive development. Both were happy about it.
Secret: I don't understand.
Assist police: You mean the police who from the beginning have been hostile?

You mean the police who from the beginning have accused him of beating his wife and baby boy to death?

You mean the police who have released nothing but incomplete, negative information?

You mean the police who from the beginning have shown their hostility by harassing his family?

You mean the police who from the beginning have accused him of not cooperating when what they really mean is that he will not submit to grilling by them?

Are these the police officers you mean?

--Jake


"I know how jason was reared." well that says it all to me. you don't want to believe that pat could have failed her son somehow. or you if you were truly involved as father-figure.

john hinkley has very nice parents and their son tried to assasinate a President. something can go wrong in the mind of a killer.

something might be wrong with jason's mind - his upbringing might be partly responsible or genetics or neither.

i wonder how you are going to deal with finally hearing the details
in court about how jason beat michelle to death. at what point are you going to let yourself think that he might have killed his wife and baby?

how much evidence will you need?

imo

[Samiya]

respectfully snipped......

Been doing a lot of studying about that with a bit of relatively new items to add. We find out that Michelle was seeing a therapist, we find out JY went on a vacation without his wife and daughter. We also find out that Michelle went to NY to spend time with her Mom before this vacation.

Now I'm wondering - does it not seem obvious LF believed from the beginning that Jason murdered Michelle ?

Did Michelle tell LF some things when she went to NY that upon reflecting, led LF to believe that JY murdered Michelle ?

Why did JY not take Cassidy on the vacation ? Did he not want Cassidy to go ? Did Michelle tell him Cassidy was not going ?

Did Michelle have enough time with a therapist to relay the same things to the therapist that led LF to believe JY murdered Michelle?


hmmm...

I wonder how long Linda has known that Michelle was seeing a therapist?

Linda said she had no idea that LE wanted to speak to the therapist.

Sami

[The Saint]

Jake

We did a little snooping around on the register of deeds web site...faciscnating

1- Birchlief house was sold for $379k with a $$307k 1st mortgage. There is second mortgage of $57k. If he sold tomorrow, after paying the 6%, he has ZERO equity in the house

2- The town Home. Bought for $159k 2 years ago (bought Ryan Schaad out) and has 1st mortgage of $131k. + 2 equity loans of $15,500 and $15,900. ....ZERO equity here

I don't know Jake. Sounds like a bit of financial hurt with the 2nd baby on the way and Michelle going part time. I would be very stressed if this were my financial condition. That $1mm life policy could bail him out in more ways than one :twocents:

this is what i heard. the houses were mortgaged to the hilt.

and when or if he selles the houses, he'll have to pay real estate broker commissions and closing costs plus capital gains taxes unless he buys a new property.

and i also heard that when one of the men who knew jay from college
was read some of what the pro-jason people were posting on CTV about his being moral, etc., the guy laughed. He said that wasn't the jay he knew in college.

imo

[sweet peach]

I have always though that LF knew from the beginning. In her first plea to the public she asked for anyone who had seen or heard anything to come forward. Quote:

“I’m asking for anyone who has seen or heard anything, as trivial as you might think it is, anything, to please come forward, and help find the person who murdered our daughter."

She didn't ask if anyone knew who did this. I don't know...I may be reading too much into it but that just jumped out at me.

***snipped***

I agree, jilly. It's almost as if she always suspected him and added that part in about "as trivial as you might think it is" for that matter. You know, like a neighbor may think it's trivial if they saw JY's car in the driveway at 3 am, but it's actually not at all trivial in this case. Does that make sense? JMO...

[jilly]

I agree, jilly. It's almost as if she always suspected him and added that part in about "as trivial as you might think it is" for that matter. You know, like a neighbor may think it's trivial if they saw JY's car in the driveway at 3 am, but it's actually not at all trivial in this case. Does that make sense? JMO...

Oh good - I'm not losing it- you're my new best friend :D That's who I thought she was appealing to - neighbors or those who had been in the neighborhood (delivery people etc).

[scandi]

Hi Charlie, Yes I think what you say is extremely possible.

Mid November we had an insider tell us that both LF and MF thought Jason was guilty. I'll never forget that because it was such a black and white statement. I was really into the 911 call at that time and remember thinking MF had related to her mom Cassidy's statements. We only heard a few of those comments from Cassidy, and have always thought she said many more things.

I often wondered why MF kept running over to Jason at the funeral, speaking with him in a friendly way. What I mean is she was good natured, from what I read. And I also wondered when Jason arrived with family, we heard he was in the house with MF and Cassidy while his family was out dickering w/ LE to get their things.

What I've always tried to understand is why was she so friendly with him when we had been told she thought he had murdered her sister?

I also agree with you that Michelle could have kept Cassidy from the trip. She probably didn't want her with a group of adults who might be partying away while in Ca.

And I agree too that what LF knew about JY might be much of what Michelle told the therapist. I think he had threatened her life when she told him he would not have joint custody of Cassidy in the divorce, and she might have told this to her mom. Scandi

[sweet peach]

Oh good - I'm not losing it- you're my new best friend :D That's who I thought she was appealing to - neighbors or those who had been in the neighborhood (delivery people etc).

BFF!

:blowkiss:

[Samiya]

I agree, jilly. It's almost as if she always suspected him and added that part in about "as trivial as you might think it is" for that matter. You know, like a neighbor may think it's trivial if they saw JY's car in the driveway at 3 am, but it's actually not at all trivial in this case. Does that make sense? JMO...

Perfect sense :)

Sami

[raisincharlie]

Jake

We did a little snooping around on the register of deeds web site...faciscnating

1- Birchlief house was sold for $379k with a $$307k 1st mortgage. There is second mortgage of $57k. If he sold tomorrow, after paying the 6%, he has ZERO equity in the house

2- The town Home. Bought for $159k 2 years ago (bought Ryan Schaad out) and has 1st mortgage of $131k. + 2 equity loans of $15,500 and $15,900. ....ZERO equity here

I don't know Jake. Sounds like a bit of financial hurt with the 2nd baby on the way and Michelle going part time. I would be very stressed if this were my financial condition. That $1mm life policy could bail him out in more ways than one :twocents:


I suspect LE certainly is aware of this and maybe even included it in a round about way in a search warrant probable cause section. That warrant won't be thrown out Jake - there's your proof that LE has a clue and wasn't just trying to make JY look as bad as possible.

Thanks Barney !

[sweet peach]

Perfect sense :)

Sami

Thanks Sami. Love your CTV rap.

:D

[raisincharlie]

RC,

I have always though that LF knew from the beginning. In her first plea to the public she asked for anyone who had seen or heard anything to come forward. Quote:

“I’m asking for anyone who has seen or heard anything, as trivial as you might think it is, anything, to please come forward, and help find the person who murdered our daughter."

She didn't ask if anyone knew who did this. I don't know...I may be reading too much into it but that just jumped out at me.

I'm sure Michelle poured her heart out to her mom during that two weeks. She was an emotional wreck at that point what with losing the baby etc.

I would think the reason jy didn't want Cassidy on the vacation was because he didn't feel it was right to expect others to babysit while he was having a good time. Perhaps all of them planned on going to a casino or whatever.

It would be good to know how many sessions Michelle had with the therapist. Sessions are usually 1 hour and you can talk alot during that time. The first few sessions involve mostly the client talking and the therapist getting a feel for the situation and asking a few of questions. So whatever she told the therapist in one or two sessions could be enough for LE to get a handle on the situation.jmo

Jilly,

I think LF knew from the beginning as well and I agree her statement seeking help pretty much said so. Ever notice how similar the wording was to one of Sharon Rocha's statements after Scooter was obviously a suspect ?

The deal with Cassidy really bugs me, something doesn't add up for me. The casino sounds acceptable but...hmmm, surely they weren't in a casino for 24hours a day, every day they were there. I just don't know, this one doesn't add up for me. ETA - one of those persons supposedly would "inherit" Cassidy if something happened, or so we have been told. Another hmmmm...

[The Saint]

Howdy,

I'm sorry you did not get to see the original story. You saw the corrected version. It was corrected after I let some people know the story was incomplete and left a false impression.

The Raleigh N&O didn't have the opportunity to correct their version because it was in print, unlike WRAL. However, the next day the N&O published an updated story also.

Here is the story as it appeared on Feb. 13 in the Raleigh News and Observer: SNIPPED OF COURSE:

Wife's money fears, fury detailed
Murder victim stressed over money, angry at husband's trip without her, warrant shows

Thomasi McDonald, Staff Writer
RALEIGH - Michelle Young was not only "stressing out over money" but about a California vacation authorities say her husband took without her, according to a search warrant.
SNIP

According to the search warrant, Sternberg talked with two witnesses about the California vacation. One said Michelle Young was "very, very" angry about the trip that her husband apparently took without her.
The second witness told Sternberg there was tension between the two as a result of Jason Young's California trip, according to the warrant.

As you can imagine, the CTV board had about five pages of posters guessing what Jason was doing while visiting the fleshpots of California. What a selfish moron to take off on a solo vacation and leave his poor wife and baby behind....etc.

The media relied on the search warrant for the information. The search warrant, I believe, was purposely incomplete. It didn't mention that it was a long-planned trip with Jason's mother, sister, brother in law.

The two A & B (younger) witnesses? Obviously not friends of Jason. The money? That had been planned for and budgeted also.

I've often wondered what would have happened if Jason had given up his constitutional rights and sat down to be grilled by police officers. Would these negative stories have come out differently? I think so.

I also wonder why I keep writing this story. I've done it before, and obviously it convinces no one. Others still believe Jason should "cooperate", give up his rights, submit to grilling, eh, an "interview".
I don't.

--Jake



I also wonder why you keep writing this story. A Search Warrant is not a novel. A Search Warrant is a succinct legal document.

Did you expect the SW for the California trip would contain detailed literary descriptions?

In the matter of the murder of Michelle Fisher Young...

Jason peered out the window of the airplane at the fluffy clouds and misty
steam rolling down off of the wing.

His mind started to drift to thoughts of the warm, sunny beaches of California with the azure blue waves lapping at his feet."

"Peanuts? Would you like some peanuts, sir?" the voice of the stewardess
brought him back to reality. He looked at his mother across the aisle as she flipped through the pages of a dog-earred House Beautiful."

His little sister rested her head on her husband's shoulder as he listened to music on his headphones.

Jason tried not to think of his wife's angry face as she confronted him about taking this trip,
"Why now, Jay?!
We can't afford it and we certainly can't afford treating three extra people!
I just lost our baby and I'm not getting any support from you!"

________

It doesn't happen this way, jake. This is the law not poetry.
Michelle and tiny jason jr. were murdered.

this is not trivial like the things you mentioned.

imo

[DEPUTYDAWG]

Jake

We did a little snooping around on the register of deeds web site...faciscnating

1- Birchlief house was sold for $379k with a $$307k 1st mortgage. There is second mortgage of $57k. If he sold tomorrow, after paying the 6%, he has ZERO equity in the house

2- The town Home. Bought for $159k 2 years ago (bought Ryan Schaad out) and has 1st mortgage of $131k. + 2 equity loans of $15,500 and $15,900. ....ZERO equity here

I don't know Jake. Sounds like a bit of financial hurt with the 2nd baby on the way and Michelle going part time. I would be very stressed if this were my financial condition. That $1mm life policy could bail him out in more ways than one :twocents:

Barney,
Kudos to you and your sleuthers...just looking at the RE financials, they're pretty darn tight, aren't they? Certainly, many in the US are in similar situation re mortgages, etc. What their other monthly income vs expenses are/were, doubt back in early to mid-November, that anyone other than Jason knew what his financial situation was. I really doubt his family knew...and so how would Jake know? He wouldn't.

It's far more reasonable that when LE made those statements in their affidavits for the S/W's, that they were accurate based upon the reports they had reviewed in the first week or two after the murder. Therefore, I can't see how Jake could jump to the conclusion that LE lied or skewed financial facts at that point.

I don't know if he and Michelle were in dire financial straights (who knows what kind of credit card debt, etc.), but finances certainly could have been a stressor, as some have suggested.

JMO

[nanandjim]

Looking at this young couple's financial situation, I don't think that they had the money to go on vacation to California or anywhere else, for that matter. Perhaps, Michelle refused to go on a vacation that she knew that they could not afford. Jason decided to just go without her.

It is hard enough to make ends meet with two people working and bringing in a good salary. This was a couple in their 20's for crying out loud. They were mortgaged to the hilt.

Our home did not cost $380K. We also do not have a second home or condo. To further put things into perspective, we make a lot more than MY and JY, and we are a lot older. We also have years of savings and accumulating everything that we need. We also do not have car payments or credit card debt. I could go on and on, but these young people were in way over their heads.

For Jason to just thumb his nose at Michelle, especially right after she lost a baby, shows how callous and uncaring he truly is. He did not care one iota about Michelle. You also will not get me to believe that he is a selfless father either.

[Barney Fife]

I also wonder why you keep writing this story. A Search Warrant is not a novel. A Search Warrant is a succinct legal document.

Do you expect that the SW for the California trip to contain detailed literary descriptions?

In the matter of the murder of Michelle Fisher Young...

It was the best of times, it was the worst of times.
Jason peered out the window of the airplane at the fluffy clouds and misty
steam rolling down off of the wing.

His mind started to drift to thoughts of the warm, sunny beaches of California with the azure blue waves lapping at his feet."

"Peanuts? Would you like some peanuts, sir?" the voice of the stewardess
brought him back to reality. He looked at his mother across the aisle as she flipped through the pages of a dog-earred House Beautiful."

His little sister rested her head on her husband's shoulder as he listened to music on his headphones.

________

It doesn't happen this way, jake. This is the law not poetry.
Michelle and tiny jason jr. were murdered.

this is not trivial like the things you mentioned.

imo

Thank You Saint. Jake's arrogance wears very thin most of the time. He could care less about the victims in this case....and no Jake, Jason is NOT a victim

[Samiya]

I also wonder why you keep writing this story. A Search Warrant is not a novel. A Search Warrant is a succinct legal document.

Do you expect that the SW for the California trip to contain detailed literary descriptions?

In the matter of the murder of Michelle Fisher Young...

It was the best of times, it was the worst of times.
Jason peered out the window of the airplane at the fluffy clouds and misty
steam rolling down off of the wing.

His mind started to drift to thoughts of the warm, sunny beaches of California with the azure blue waves lapping at his feet."

"Peanuts? Would you like some peanuts, sir?" the voice of the stewardess
brought him back to reality. He looked at his mother across the aisle as she flipped through the pages of a dog-earred House Beautiful."

His little sister rested her head on her husband's shoulder as he listened to music on his headphones.

________

It doesn't happen this way, jake. This is the law not poetry.
Michelle and tiny jason jr. were murdered.

this is not trivial like the things you mentioned.

imo

I know what my reaction would be to that SW if I were a judge. Same as I am going to do now.

lmao!

Sami

[jake]

This is my first post.I've been lurking for quite sometime. All the posters here seem to have so much common sense .

I believe that prior to the one week vacation , his wife had just returned after spending 2 weeks at her mothers recuperating from the loss of her baby.

The way I see it , the husband "already" had a vacation. Home alone for 2 weeks ; no wife, no children to deal with ? What mother wouldn't love to have that luxury for just one day ? Then, he skips out for a week with his family ?

I think there was trouble in paradise.

MOO

Welcome to the board citygirl. Obviously you've been reading.

first paragraph: Correct!

second paragraph: Correct! Not many remember that.

third & fourth paragraph: Gong. Michelle had three weeks vacation. After her miscarriage, she and Jason went to the beach for a week. Later, Michelle went north for two weeks. Jason had to work. You suggest two weeks away from Michelle and his child were pleasant for Jason? Doubt it.

I told you the trip with Jason's family had been long-planned....something like that would have to be planned around work schedules for four people. And of course Michelle knew the plans. Jason had one week of vacation left.

Another poster says he doubts the trip was long-planned and that Michelle probably didn't know about it in advance. Most people on the board seem to believe this poster who admittedly does not know the family. Even you, a newbie.

Okay. I give up.

--Jake

[nanandjim]

:laugh:I also wonder why you keep writing this story. A Search Warrant is not a novel. A Search Warrant is a succinct legal document.

Do you expect that the SW for the California trip to contain detailed literary descriptions?

In the matter of the murder of Michelle Fisher Young...

Jason peered out the window of the airplane at the fluffy clouds and misty
steam rolling down off of the wing.

His mind started to drift to thoughts of the warm, sunny beaches of California with the azure blue waves lapping at his feet."

"Peanuts? Would you like some peanuts, sir?" the voice of the stewardess
brought him back to reality. He looked at his mother across the aisle as she flipped through the pages of a dog-earred House Beautiful."

His little sister rested her head on her husband's shoulder as he listened to music on his headphones.

Jason tried not to think of his wife's angry face as she confronted him about taking this trip,
"Why now, Jay?!
We can't afford it and we certainly can't afford treating three extra people!
I just lost our baby and I'm not getting any support from you!"

________

It doesn't happen this way, jake. This is the law not poetry.
Michelle and tiny jason jr. were murdered.

this is not trivial like the things you mentioned.

imo

You should consider becoming a romance novelist. ;) Thanks for the levity.

[The Saint]

Jake,

Your comments about Jason being such a moral fellow, and no way he could kill his wife and unborn son, finally reminded me of something.

A very nice, quiet, unassuming young woman, routine church goer, and no one could ever believe she did what she did.

http://news.aol.com/topnews/articles/_a/trial-nears-for-slain-pastors-wife/20070409064809990001?ncid=NWS0001000000000

"It was just building up to this point," Mary Winkler said, according to a statement taken by Alabama police. "I was just tired of it. I guess I just got to a point and snapped."

But friends have said they can't understand how someone as sweet and quiet as Mary Winkler could be charged with murder.

"This was a perfect family," Judy Turner, a member of the Winkler's McMinnville church, said just after Winkler was arrested.


Makes me wonder... ETA - her trial starts today, she was married for 10 years before this event.


it sounds like jay's "nasty came out" too like Mary Winkler's. but
he can't claim that being pressured into a restrictive church life made him snap.

jay wasn't a preacher's wife. he didn't attend church in raleigh.

and he wasn't taking steroids for lupus or have postpartum depression.

imo

[The Saint]

It still doesn't make alot of sense to me that Jason's family even took this trip without discussing it with Michelle FIRST. Especially when finding out she and Cassidy were not coming along? Something is just not adding up for me.


jay's family probably thought that jay had discussed the trip with michelle
and that she was ok with them going.

i bet jay wanted to look like a big successful man when he treated them all to the trip. they didn't know that jason and michelle were strapped financially.


i can also see it happening that jay was pissed off at his wife for
going up to NY to see her mom for 2 weeks. i imagine that he knew
LF would be hearing michelle's side of things and maybe counseling michelle to divorce him and move back to NY with cassidy.

jason, being immature, thought - michelle had HER vacation and spent money. i'm going to have MY vacation and spend money on MY family and complain about MY WIFE to THEM.

of course, he didn't factor in that michelle had lost a baby and was in emotional and physcial pain after the medical procedure.

imo

[sweet peach]

:laugh:

You should consider becoming a romance novelist. ;) Thanks for the levity.

Agreed! That was quite entertaining. Thank you for the laugh...we get so few while on these boards discussing this God-awful crime.

[nanandjim]

...i bet jay wanted to look like a big successful man when he treated them all to the trip. they didn't know that jason and michelle were strapped financially...
I just am not buying this reasoning, not saying that they didn't use this as an excuse. However, my husband and I would NEVER let our 20-something kids pay for our dinner, much less vacation. We know that kids are just starting out. I don't care if they have good jobs. Young people--especially those with a child and one on the way and a couple of houses and cars, etc.--cannot afford to take a vacation for themselves, much less foot the bill for their families.

If his family allowed for Jason to foot the bill, they are as selfish and self-centered as I have pictured them to be. If his family allowed for this to happen, all the while his pregnant wife and child stayed behind, I can see how Jason turned out to feel that he was entitled and how he turned out to be a murderer when he thought that his wife was pulling the plug on footing the bill for his grandiose lifestyle.

[The Saint]

LOL Sami!

I'm still not sure that she had used up her vacation time. I'm thinking she would get more than 2 weeks a year. If I was playing devil's advocate here, I think it would make more sense to say that she had not actually booked the time off.

I agree with others though - she didn't know about this until the last minute.


i'm not convinced that michelle's 2-week trip to NY would be considered VACATION time by Progress Energy. I believe that her miscarriage would be considered a medical leave or something to do with a pregnancy leave.

"Vacation time" might be a red-herring.

imo

[sweet peach]

i'm not convinced that michelle's 2-week trip to NY would be considered VACATION time by Progress Energy. I believe that her miscarriage would be considered a medical leave or something to do with a pregnancy leave.

"Vacation time" might be a red-herring.

imo

Good point. Don't most companies offer FMLA or something similar for situations such as that?

[The Saint]

As Dr. Phil says, "People who have nothing to hide, hide nothing." You apparently feel that Jason has a lot to hide. Police must work from the inner circle out. They have to be able to eliminate the inner circle of family and friends to focus all of their efforts outward. Jason apparently doesn't care whether they find the murderer of his wife and son. Can you tell me if he has received Michelle's life insurance money yet? Is the home for sale? He should be sitting pretty for a while, don't you think? I guess that finding the "real" murderer is the least of his concerns.

As far as I am concerned, you are correct. Your statements fall on deaf ears with me because they make no sense. The only argument that you can give for the reason that Jason won't cooperate with the police is that they will grill him and have harrassed his family. Is Jason really that fragile?

Geez...his wife was viciously beaten to death. He also lost the son that he was so eagerly awaiting. Don't you think that would enrage the average guy and make the average guy put aside his sensitive feelings to get to the bottom of this crime?

jason fragile? no.
volatile? yes

jmo

[raisincharlie]

Welcome to the board citygirl. Obviously you've been reading.

first paragraph: Correct!

second paragraph: Correct! Not many remember that.

third & fourth paragraph: Gong. Michelle had three weeks vacation. After her miscarriage, she and Jason went to the beach for a week. Later, Michelle went north for two weeks. Jason had to work. You suggest two weeks away from Michelle and his child were pleasant for Jason? Doubt it.

I told you the trip with Jason's family had been long-planned....something like that would have to be planned around work schedules for four people. And of course Michelle knew the plans. Jason had one week of vacation left.

Another poster says he doubts the trip was long-planned and that Michelle probably didn't know about it in advance. Most people on the board seem to believe this poster who admittedly does not know the family. Even you, a newbie.

Okay. I give up.

--Jake

Planned around work schedules for 4 people ? So that means Jason's Mother still works and Heather works during the summer even though school is out ?

[Barney Fife]

Welcome to the board citygirl. Obviously you've been reading.

first paragraph: Correct!

second paragraph: Correct! Not many remember that.

third & fourth paragraph: Gong. Michelle had three weeks vacation. After her miscarriage, she and Jason went to the beach for a week. Later, Michelle went north for two weeks. Jason had to work. You suggest two weeks away from Michelle and his child were pleasant for Jason? Doubt it.

I told you the trip with Jason's family had been long-planned....something like that would have to be planned around work schedules for four people. And of course Michelle knew the plans. Jason had one week of vacation left.

Another poster says he doubts the trip was long-planned and that Michelle probably didn't know about it in advance. Most people on the board seem to believe this poster who admittedly does not know the family. Even you, a newbie.

Okay. I give up.

--Jake

I don't recall seeing a post that said they doubt the trip was not long planned with his Brevard family? However, I did see the post that said it was doubtful Michelle knew it was planned:waitasec:

You have no idea if Michelle knew far in advance or not.

[jilly]

Jilly,

Ever notice how similar the wording was to one of Sharon Rocha's statements after Scooter was obviously a suspect ?

Yessssss! I was thinking of mentioning her when I posted. She still had enough composure so as to not directly accuse Scott but her tone said it all. Quote:

"Soon after Laci went missing I made a promise to her, that if she has been harmed
we will seek justice for her and Conner and make sure that the person responsible
for their deaths will be punished. I can only hope that the sound of Laci’s voice begging
for her life, begging for the life of her unborn child, is heard over and over and over
again in the mind of that person everyday for the rest of his life. The person responsible
should be held accountable and punished for the tragedy and
devastation forced upon so many."

[The Saint]

Good point. Don't most companies offer FMLA or something similar for situations such as that?

it sounds like progress energy really respected michelle and thought
they she was a great employee. i haven't read the president's statement about MY's death but i can't imagine that any company would consider
recuperation from a miscarriage "a vacation."

PE used flex time schedules which is very progressive. i think that they would have a compassionate medical/family emergency leave
policy.

jmo

[jilly]

i'm not convinced that michelle's 2-week trip to NY would be considered VACATION time by Progress Energy. I believe that her miscarriage would be considered a medical leave or something to do with a pregnancy leave.

"Vacation time" might be a red-herring.

imo

I hadn't thought of that trip as being medical leave. Very good point!:)

[The Saint]

Looking at this young couple's financial situation, I don't think that they had the money to go on vacation to California or anywhere else, for that matter. Perhaps, Michelle refused to go on a vacation that she knew that they could not afford. Jason decided to just go without her.

It is hard enough to make ends meet with two people working and bringing in a good salary. This was a couple in their 20's for crying out loud. They were mortgaged to the hilt.

Our home did not cost $380K. We also do not have a second home or condo. To further put things into perspective, we make a lot more than MY and JY, and we are a lot older. We also have years of savings and accumulating everything that we need. We also do not have car payments or credit card debt. I could go on and on, but these young people were in way over their heads.

For Jason to just thumb his nose at Michelle, especially right after she lost a baby, shows how callous and uncaring he truly is. He did not care one iota about Michelle. You also will not get me to believe that he is a selfless father either.

and how do we know whether the condo needed expensive repairs?
maybe things were broken over there and needed to be fixed -- something bigger than the garage door opener.

had property taxes increased on the 2 properties?

how about the 20% deductible for the miscarriage?

i wonder how expensive that would be. maybe michelle was given time off (and it didn't count toward her vacation time) but not paid for it.

jmo

[Scout]

Welcome to the board citygirl. Obviously you've been reading.

first paragraph: Correct!

second paragraph: Correct! Not many remember that.

third & fourth paragraph: Gong. Michelle had three weeks vacation. After her miscarriage, she and Jason went to the beach for a week. Later, Michelle went north for two weeks. Jason had to work. You suggest two weeks away from Michelle and his child were pleasant for Jason? Doubt it.

I told you the trip with Jason's family had been long-planned....something like that would have to be planned around work schedules for four people. And of course Michelle knew the plans. Jason had one week of vacation left.

Another poster says he doubts the trip was long-planned and that Michelle probably didn't know about it in advance. Most people on the board seem to believe this poster who admittedly does not know the family. Even you, a newbie.

Okay. I give up.

--Jake

Don't give up yet, Jake. I'd very much appreciate it if you would provide dates for these three trips.

[DEPUTYDAWG]

(snipped for space)

Assist police: You mean the police who from the beginning have been hostile?

You mean the police who from the beginning have accused him of beating his wife and baby boy to death?

You mean the police who have released nothing but incomplete, negative information? #1

You mean the police who from the beginning have shown their hostility by harassing his family? #2

You mean the police who from the beginning have accused him of not cooperating when what they really mean is that he will not submit to grilling by them? #3

Are these the police officers you mean?

--Jake

#1 - In the middle of an investigation, LE isn't required to release any and all information they have. You know that, and most people don't expect LE to release all their information. Negative information as you stated? Hmmm, the same info can be spun in different directions by each side. It just happens to be that, at this point, Jason and his legal team have elected to make no comments, so their "spin" isn't on record just yet. They can counter the relatively few official comments whenever they want to! We'll listen. If they don't want to put their version of events out for the public until a trial (IF and when Jason's charged), then they can try to shred everything that's been stated by LE and the DA in the courtroom, where it really matters.

#2 - It's my impression that you were not there, on scene, when Jason and the Young family arrived and were met by investigators. If you weren't, then you've been given a version of events from family members of the #1 person of interest. Would they be scared, bewildered, angry, defensive, concerned, etc. about what has transpired in a very short period of time? You bet. Do you honestly think you got a neutral description of events? In my personal opinion, it probably wasn't a factual replay. Not faulting the Youngs for that, as they were pushed into a foreign situation for them. Being questioned by LE can be intimidating just on a traffic stop, let alone in the early stages of a horrible homicide investigation.

#3 - your use of "grilling" over and over gets old, at least to me (and maybe only me). Grilling, interrogating, interviewing, questioning, etc. Yep, all can be expected in a homicide investigation. Some detectives and LE may start out calm and good natured and caring; others, not so much. Some are gruff, neutral, grumpy, direct, coarse, and did I mention gruff??? Some can also be condescending and arrogant. Different demeanors and personalities. Ever wonder why some become more direct and appear less soft than others? Maybe because of the years of being lied to, people stalling, being defensive and unhelpful? These officers want to get to the bottom of the situation and just want to cut to the chase, so to speak. Sometimes it's not at all like you see on TV and sometimes it has shades of it. "Grilling" as you like to say is not illegal. I feel a little bad that the Youngs were subjected to it, but honesty, looking back they shouldn't be that surprised.

For all the negative spin you put out on the message boards regarding your take of LE's role on that first night and what they've mentioned in the media (which has been very limited, BTW)...IF Jason is innocent and LE does find the real killer, will the Youngs be thankful to them for solving the murder of two family members?

[The Saint]

No Boundaries - certainly tells a lot doesn't it ? Excellent point.

"No boundaries" could also refer to the situation within the Young family structure; jay's mother and sisters
could have done things for jay in his life that he should have been doing for himself. they might still being do those things even though jay is a grown man.

jmo

[raisincharlie]

Rock on Deputy Dawg !

Add in seeing a 2 1/2 year old baby with bloodly little feet, having been in that house alone with her deceased Mother in a crime scene that could only be described as brutal, I seriously doubt that LE was exactly in a very easy mood considering there was a murderer loose somewhere. Police officers are human as well, many with children of their own. The last thing they would have been in the mood to deal with was an arrogant fool referring them to a lawyer less than 12 hours after this poor woman's brutalized body was found - especially a guy who claims he was out of town on business and can't bebothered to tell them who had keys to that house. JMO

[raisincharlie]

"No boundaries" could also refer the situation within the Young family structure; jay's mother and sisters
could have done things for jay in his life that he should have been doing for himself. they might still being do those things even though jay is a grown man.

jmo

If we can believe Jake - this sounds reasonable. JYs Mom was supposedly fielding calls to/from LE, and while JY was inside Meredith's, it was the other passengers dealing with LE after they came screaming in with all those sirens and lights :D

ETA - almost forgot his other sister is managing the house for him and as I recall it was family and friends that went into that house to collect personal items and oversee the cleanup.

[The Saint]

I would be willing to bet Jake has not spoken to Jason in years.The days of JY hanging around his house seeing his own kids have been long gone His wife is a good friend of Mrs Young. That is the extent of his relationship with JY as it stands today. Local gossip around Brevard, what he gets from his wife and....what he gets from these boards.


and don't forget, information by looking at the photographs taken by his wife of Cassidy and the crime scene aftermath. why did he pretend that he had actually BEEN INSIDE of Birchleaf after it was released by investigators? Why? because he's a narcissist.

imo

[The Saint]

Welcome to the board citygirl. Obviously you've been reading.

first paragraph: Correct!

second paragraph: Correct! Not many remember that.

third & fourth paragraph: Gong. Michelle had three weeks vacation. After her miscarriage, she and Jason went to the beach for a week. Later, Michelle went north for two weeks. Jason had to work. You suggest two weeks away from Michelle and his child were pleasant for Jason? Doubt it.

I told you the trip with Jason's family had been long-planned....something like that would have to be planned around work schedules for four people. And of course Michelle knew the plans. Jason had one week of vacation left.

Another poster says he doubts the trip was long-planned and that Michelle probably didn't know about it in advance. Most people on the board seem to believe this poster who admittedly does not know the family. Even you, a newbie.

Okay. I give up.

--Jake

what beach did they go to jake?

two weeks away from michelle and cassidy, pleasant?
what a minute, didn't you say earlier that Cassidy went with them on the CA trip or implied that she had?

room service, maid service -- what difference to jason did it make
in CA? someone was still looking after his needs. michelle took care of that grunge work at home.

and what about his stepping out on her with the "fleshpots" of CA?
that would be the biggest need for him, i imagine. the hotel took care of the rest of it.

imo

[raisincharlie]

Sami - are you hiding in the closet :p

Anything interesting in there ? You could have a point about the closet - we were told the closet had been ransacked and it had to have happened before Michelle was murdered - remember that windy ?

[Samiya]

#1 - In the middle of an investigation, LE isn't required to release any and all information they have. You know that, and most people don't expect LE to release all their information. Negative information as you stated? Hmmm, the same info can be spun in different directions by each side. It just happens to be that, at this point, Jason and his legal team have elected to make no comments, so their "spin" isn't on record just yet. They can counter the relatively few official comments whenever they want to! We'll listen. If they don't want to put their version of events out for the public until a trial (IF and when Jason's charged), then they can try to shred everything that's been stated by LE and the DA in the courtroom, where it really matters.

#2 - It's my impression that you were not there, on scene, when Jason and the Young family arrived and were met by investigators. If you weren't, then you've been given a version of events from family members of the #1 person of interest. Would they be scared, bewildered, angry, defensive, concerned, etc. about what has transpired in a very short period of time? You bet. Do you honestly think you got a neutral description of events? In my personal opinion, it probably wasn't a factual replay. Not faulting the Youngs for that, as they were pushed into a foreign situation for them. Being questioned by LE can be intimidating just on a traffic stop, let alone in the early stages of a horrible homicide investigation.

#3 - your use of "grilling" over and over gets old, at least to me (and maybe only me). Grilling, interrogating, interviewing, questioning, etc. Yep, all can be expected in a homicide investigation. Some detectives and LE may start out calm and good natured and caring; others, not so much. Some are gruff, neutral, grumpy, direct, coarse, and did I mention gruff??? Some can also be condescending and arrogant. Different demeanors and personalities. Ever wonder why some become more direct and appear less soft than others? Maybe because of the years of being lied to, people stalling, being defensive and unhelpful? These officers want to get to the bottom of the situation and just want to cut to the chase, so to speak. Sometimes it's not at all like you see on TV and sometimes it has shades of it. "Grilling" as you like to say is not illegal. I feel a little bad that the Youngs were subjected to it, but honesty, looking back they shouldn't be that surprised.

For all the negative spin you put out on the message boards regarding your take of LE's role on that first night and what they've mentioned in the media (which has been very limited, BTW)...IF Jason is innocent and LE does find the real killer, will the Youngs be thankful to them for solving the murder of two family members?

Standing Ovation to you!!!!!

:blowkiss:

Sami

[jilly]

Deputy Great Post!:clap:

Don't want to make light of your comments but I can personally relate to the traffic stop intimidation!:D

[The Saint]

I just am not buying this reasoning, not saying that they didn't use this as an excuse. However, my husband and I would NEVER let our 20-something kids pay for our dinner, much less vacation. We know that kids are just starting out. I don't care if they have good jobs. Young people--especially those with a child and one on the way and a couple of houses and cars, etc.--cannot afford to take a vacation for themselves, much less foot the bill for their families.

If his family allowed for Jason to foot the bill, they are as selfish and self-centered as I have pictured them to be. If his family allowed for this to happen, all the while his pregnant wife and child stayed behind, I can see how Jason turned out to feel that he was entitled and how he turned out to be a murderer when he thought that his wife was pulling the plug on footing the bill for his grandiose lifestyle.

i'm just not sure. i think that jason might have been "snowing them." they might not have known that MY and JY were low on money.

he was trying to look like the last of the big spenders --- too bad
it was probably michelle's earnings that he was spending so lavishly.
he was between jobs.

i am thinking now that maybe THEY DID need to borrow second-hand furniture to furnish the baby's room. jay just didn't need to pick it up
on the eve of the big football game (that is, UNTIL after he killed michelle;
he needed to run up and pick it up very urgently after that).

because we find the furniture excuse very weak, i think at trial, we'll hear that pat young had a medical emergency and jason wanted to rush up to be with her.
they'll say that she was too stubborn to call the doctor or go to the ER.


imo

[The Saint]

Sami - are you hiding in the closet :p

Anything interesting in there ? You could have a point about the closet - we were told the closet had been ransacked and it had to have happened before Michelle was murdered - remember that windy ?

uh oh. jason had to get his women's drag outfits out of the closet
before LE came.

imo

[strach304]

Sami - are you hiding in the closet :p

Anything interesting in there ? You could have a point about the closet - we were told the closet had been ransacked and it had to have happened before Michelle was murdered - remember that windy ?


How did I miss that?

[raisincharlie]

How did I miss that?

What ? Sami hiding in the closet or the closet being ransacked ?

[strach304]

and don't forget, information by looking at the photographs taken by his wife of Cassidy and the crime scene aftermath. why did he pretend that he had actually BEEN INSIDE of Birchleaf after it was released by investigators? Why? because he's a narcissist.

imo

Why would she be taking photograph's?

[strach304]

What ? Sami hiding in the closet or the closet being ransacked ?

I know Sami's not in the closet :blushing:
I didn't see anything about the closet being ransacked.

[raisincharlie]

I know Sami's not in the closet :blushing:
I didn't see anything about the closet being ransacked.

That was one of Jake's tales (or gojo or one of that group) - there were two people there that night - one was holding Michelle at bay while the other was stealing the jewelry and ransacking the closet for other valuables. This had to have happened before Michelle was murdered because one couldn't open the door afterward as Michelle's body was blocking the door. Just a story posted at CTV some time ago while trying to blame Meredith - probably poofed by now.

[The Saint]

Why would she be taking photograph's?
imo,
jake wants to write a true crime book from jason's point-of-view.

you'll have to ask him why she did it and why she shared the pictures of cassidy with him --- that is, if a reunion meeting really took place between the fishers and cassidy.

[jilly]

Why would she be taking photograph's?

Lord, who knows Strach! They might have been taking pictures of the mess that LE had left with the idea of suing them! Other than that maybe they were playing 'Detective' - Photo of tooth left behind; Cassidy's bloody socks in the bathroom, footprints....

[Samiya]

Sami - are you hiding in the closet :p

Anything interesting in there ? You could have a point about the closet - we were told the closet had been ransacked and it had to have happened before Michelle was murdered - remember that windy ?

Sorry hon, I must've flown by your post.

Actually I don't remember it being said that the closet was ransacked is the post still around?

Sami

[raisincharlie]

Sorry hon, I must've flown by your post.

Actually I don't remember it being said that the closet was ransacked is the post still around?

Sami

I'll see if I can find it at CTV - have to remember if it was gojo, or what jo it was that said it- I know it was one of them.

I remember it only because I thought to myself it was probably true as JY definitely was in a hurry to get some clean clothes out of there.

[strach304]

Ok, I think I've got it. Wonder when the pics were taken? I can see them wanting pics after finding the tooth but not that same day coming with one (camera) in preparation so to speak.

[strach304]

I'll see if I can find it at CTV - have to remember if it was gojo, or what jo it was that said it- I know it was one of them.

I remember it only because I thought to myself it was probably true as JY definitely was in a hurry to get some clean clothes out of there.

They went in the closet to get a shoe to compare to the bloody footprint. They weren't being nosey.

[Nomimi]

Welcome to the board citygirl. Obviously you've been reading.

first paragraph: Correct!

second paragraph: Correct! Not many remember that.

third & fourth paragraph: Gong. Michelle had three weeks vacation. After her miscarriage, she and Jason went to the beach for a week. Later, Michelle went north for two weeks. Jason had to work. You suggest two weeks away from Michelle and his child were pleasant for Jason? Doubt it.

I told you the trip with Jason's family had been long-planned....something like that would have to be planned around work schedules for four people. And of course Michelle knew the plans. Jason had one week of vacation left.

Another poster says he doubts the trip was long-planned and that Michelle probably didn't know about it in advance. Most people on the board seem to believe this poster who admittedly does not know the family. Even you, a newbie.

Okay. I give up.

--Jake

Hi Jake! What about Michelle's other benefits, besides 3 wks vacation? They include:
Leaves of absence for military duty, family or medical needs
Excused time for illness of employees or family members
Employee rewards and recognition, including cash awards or time off
Short-term and long-term disability coverage

Once again, you have not done your homework. Do you know if there was a funeral service for the first baby boy that was lost? TIA

[raisincharlie]

Jake,

Quick question - now that the sleuths have indeed figured out how many staircases are in the house and you seem to agree finally - another question - how many closets are in the master bedroom ?

I ask this question because in one of your posts at LR, you reference in one of your theories that the closet door to "Jason's closet" must have been closed during the murder because Michelle's body was against that door. The reason I ask is because you commented that "Jason's closet" had been ransacked by the "killers". If there is more than one closet - don't you wonder why only "Jason's closet" was ransacked ? Could it have been because Jason was in a hurry to get some clean clothes out of that closet after he killed his wife ? TIA

[raisincharlie]

Never mind Jake - I got my answer about the closets.

[Nomimi]

Hey Raisin! I had the same thought about him trying to hurry up and find some clothes so he could get the heck out of there. It would be a bit frustrating trying to figure out just what to wear after brutally murdering your wife. What sort of outfit would that call for?

[raisincharlie]

Hey Raisin! I had the same thought about him trying to hurry up and find some clothes so he could get the heck out of there. It would be a bit frustrating trying to figure out just what to wear after brutally murdering your wife. What sort of outfit would that call for?


Nomimi,

Since it has now been confirmed there are two closets, one really has to wonder why only Jason's was ransacked. With all the accusations that LF and MF were in the house before JY's family, one has to wonder why Michelle's closet was not ransacked. One also has to wonder why LE would only ransack Jason's closet seeing as how it was Michelle that was murdered.

The only logical conclusion - the killer needed clean clothes after he brutally murdered Michelle and after that shower he took IMO.

ETA - Welcome to websleuths Nomimi ! Pardon my manners in putting this at the end please.

[Nomimi]

Thanks for the welcome! With no news in so long, I've resorted to 3 different forums! Where is our dear friend Jake today? I see he's over at CTV...

[scandi]

Hi Charlie,

It is interesting about 2 walk-in closets, a his and hers, in the MBr.

You are thinking Michelle was murdered as she was held up against the wall inbetween the bed and the wall where the closets are. I'm wondering if JY's closet was the closest to the outside wall of that room {the one whe was held up against}, and when he was either halted in his siege of blows or was finished, if he tossed her on the floor in front of the door?

The reason I wonder is unless he moved her over in front of that door after he had ransacked it for his clothes, if she did land in front of that door he wouldn't be able to open it. It sounds like these doors opened into the room, unless they were pocket doors. I guess I was thinking of her up against that door which is different that in front of, right. It was only about a 5 to 8 foor area in width, so unless she was right by the bed, anywhere she landed there would probably block that door.

BTW, I have fully adopted your theory about her being murdered that way, in fact I can just see the title of a book on the case entitled 'Murder On The
Wall'. By someone else of course ;) Just think of the evidence on that wall. No wonder Harrison said definately there was a struggle. A seasoned criminologist would be able to tell one exactly what happened there.

Hi Nomimi, I also wanted to welcome you to WS and am really glad you are here with us. I am glad you are a Sleuther with a smile and not a stinger!

Scandi

ETA: Lordie Do, I forgot something. In a lot of big beautiful homes like this I often found there were built in drawers and shelving in the Master Bath. I don't know about these houses, but if so that is where you would keep towels and things to put on after the shower, like panties, T-shirts and socks. Just a thought.

[raisincharlie]

Hi Charlie,

It is interesting about 2 walk-in closets, a his and hers, in the MBr.

You are thinking Michelle was murdered as she was held up against the wall inbetween the bed and the wall where the closets are. I'm wondering if JY's closet was the closest to the outside wall of that room {the one whe was held up against}, and when he was either halted in his siege of blows or was finished, if he tossed her on the floor in front of the door?

<snip>
Scandi


Scandi,

As you know I make no bones about my lack of ability to understand how wounds occur - however look again at that autopsy, in particular the view of the face - look at the blows to the mouth again. From my limited abilities, those blows look like they could have been made by a door - she could have hit the door as she fell to the floor which might also explain why her teeth were found near her body. It seems rather obvious to me with the location of her teeth, the blow that knocked them out was near or at the end of the attack. Perhaps Sami will be so kind as to weigh in. Hoping :)

I submit to you that I don't believe the murderer would have cared if he opened a door and it hit her body laying on the floor after he had murdered her. JMO

[scandi]

Gee, I suppose he didn't care at all, now that you p[ut it like that. So bad!

There was bruising around that mouth area, and blood has to be still pumping to make a bruise. But then I don't think she was dead yet when he let her fall down. There was too much blood in that pool around her head for that.

So you might have just added another feather to your hat Charlie about those wounds on her lips - lacerations, being made by a door.

I know I read somewhere that the last blow by the ear dislodged her jaw causing her teeth to be avulsed, and made her tongue protrude.

You know Charlie, I hope Sami comes too! That would be a very good thing. YaYa Scandi

[raisincharlie]

Gee, I suppose he didn't care at all, now that you p[ut it like that. So bad!

There was bruising around that mouth area, and blood has to be still pumping to make a bruise. But then I don't think she was dead yet when he let her fall down. There was too much blood in that pool around her head for that.

So you might have just added another feather to your hat Charlie about those wounds on her lips - lacerations, being made by a door.

I know I read somewhere that the last blow by the ear dislodged her jaw causing her teeth to be avulsed, and made her tongue protrude.

You know Charlie, I hope Sami comes too! That would be a very good thing. YaYa Scandi

If the one blow broke her jaw and disloged her teeth, if she were standing, why would the teeth be found near the body ? If she were down on the floor when this blow was applied - how would her teeth be found near her body but a part on one would be found elsewhere ?

[Barney Fife]

Gee, I suppose he didn't care at all, now that you p[ut it like that. So bad!

There was bruising around that mouth area, and blood has to be still pumping to make a bruise. But then I don't think she was dead yet when he let her fall down. There was too much blood in that pool around her head for that.

So you might have just added another feather to your hat Charlie about those wounds on her lips - lacerations, being made by a door.

I know I read somewhere that the last blow by the ear dislodged her jaw causing her teeth to be avulsed, and made her tongue protrude.

You know Charlie, I hope Sami comes too! That would be a very good thing. YaYa Scandi

I will tell you her mouth had a vertical laceration on both the upper and lower lip. Other than a "fat lip" her face was not bruised . I would guess she was hit in the mouth full force with the murder weapon, breaking her mandible and some teeth. When she immediately dropped to the floor, he beat her unmercifully about the side and back of the head. The force of these head blows probably avulsed several of her front teeth, as they were already hanging by the roots from the direct blow to the mouth.

[Scout]

If the one blow broke her jaw and disloged her teeth, if she were standing, why would the teeth be found near the body ? If she were down on the floor when this blow was applied - how would her teeth be found near her body but a part on one would be found elsewhere ?

It would help if we knew where that other tooth was found.

[Barney Fife]

It would help if we knew where that other tooth was found.

I think she may have been standing and he went to choke her, falling back on the bed. She struggled and kicked him where it counts. As she moved off the bed, he slammed the weapon across her mouth, breaking a tooth and avulsing one that landed under the bed (blood spatter on the lamp, wall and bed). The remaining teeth ended up on the floor in front of her head after the vicious head beating.

[strach304]

Hey Raisin! I had the same thought about him trying to hurry up and find some clothes so he could get the heck out of there. It would be a bit frustrating trying to figure out just what to wear after brutally murdering your wife. What sort of outfit would that call for?

Gonna be real interesting if the GA friend was there before Jason left and can remember what he was wearing. We know where those clothes should be.

[Barney Fife]

Gonna be real interesting if the GA friend was there before Jason left and can remember what he was wearing. We know where those clothes should be.

I sure hope she does not do one of those "I can't recall" lines. After all, she is married to Jason's old pal and condo mate, Ryan Schaad.

[Nomimi]

I sure hope she does not do one of those "I can't recall" lines. After all, she is married to Jason's old pal and condo mate, Ryan Schaad.

Oh man. That would be bad. Can you squeeze someone for some more info? We're dying here.

[jilly]

I sure hope she does not do one of those "I can't recall" lines. After all, she is married to Jason's old pal and condo mate, Ryan Schaad.

Oh my goodness. I've been hoping that Michelle would have maybe shared some problems she was having with JY but if GAs husband is JYs best friend, I can see where she wouldn't. Quite the web here.

[liveoutloud]

I sure hope she does not do one of those "I can't recall" lines. After all, she is married to Jason's old pal and condo mate, Ryan Schaad.


Barney

Are you kidding? Have you told this information before? If so, I missed it. This is pretty big. I know I had heard that the GA friend was pro JY. This would explain why. IIRC though, it seemed as if I heard or read that the GA friend had had a change of heart. Do you know if this is true or not? By any chance? For that matter, do you know why nothing, absolutely nothing has ever been said about her. Not in the media, not by LE. Not on any of these message boards. Why?

[citygirl]

Barney

Are you kidding? Have you told this information before? If so, I missed it. This is pretty big. I know I had heard that the GA friend was pro JY. This would explain why. IIRC though, it seemed as if I heard or read that the GA friend had had a change of heart. Do you know if this is true or not? By any chance? For that matter, do you know why nothing, absolutely nothing has ever been said about her. Not in the media, not by LE. Not on any of these message boards. Why?

All good questions. Plus, if I'm not mistaken , they were just wed a few months before . Do I have that right, RPD ???

[raisincharlie]

I sure hope she does not do one of those "I can't recall" lines. After all, she is married to Jason's old pal and condo mate, Ryan Schaad.


That is the very reason I believe she may have made an appearance before a grand jury - this would lock her testimony in so that were she to change it if and when this goes to trial - she will be held accountable either by impeachment or perjury - she can choose the weapon. This would also explain her complete silence as she would have been warned she could not speak about grand jury proceedings except with her lawyer. It would also explain the utter silence of those surrounding her.

[raisincharlie]

All good questions. Plus, if I'm not mistaken , they were just wed a few months before . Do I have that right, RPD ???

October 14th 2006 I believe.

[Barney Fife]

October 14th 2006 I believe.

Yes , and the reception was at Graylyn. Quite an affair I'm told


http://www.graylyn.com/intro.html

[citygirl]

October 14th 2006 I believe.

How traumatized she must be . Not long home from her honeymoon , I would guess. She was such a newlywed, it's possible that the victim never mentioned her woes . One hates to rain on a newlywed's parade , so to speak , not to mention, that newlywed's don't get it.

[Barney Fife]

Barney

Are you kidding? Have you told this information before? If so, I missed it. This is pretty big. I know I had heard that the GA friend was pro JY. This would explain why. IIRC though, it seemed as if I heard or read that the GA friend had had a change of heart. Do you know if this is true or not? By any chance? For that matter, do you know why nothing, absolutely nothing has ever been said about her. Not in the media, not by LE. Not on any of these message boards. Why?

LE has a lid on anyone key to this case. I'm told they were threatened with death if they talk to anyone.

[scandi]

Gonna be real interesting if the GA friend was there before Jason left and can remember what he was wearing. We know where those clothes should be.

Yes, I think those clothes were put in a plastic, weighted bag and heaved over the side of a bridge not so far away. Paranoia couldn't help but set in after one had just initiated such a vicious attack!

Why haven't we heard of any searches at all? I don't know of a murder case where LE hasn't searched for accoutrements to the crime. Should be SOP, and we know the killer didn't change and leave them at the house! Only one murderer did that I remember, and he was as dumb as they come. Y'all know who I mean, Scott Peterson. They found his fishing clothes in the dryer and said they had been washed 2 times. Maybe they were in the washer. He was a doubly dumb duffo! Scandi

{Yep, "Fishing clothes were in the dryer. Thought he had washed them more than once" Misfits}

[Samiya]

So come on Jake...........

One lamp or two?

Sami

[liveoutloud]

LE has a lid on anyone key to this case. I'm told they were threatened with death if they talk to anyone.


But everyone else, including you, has been discussed past exhaustion. Why no information about her AT ALL? Who threatened them with death?

[raisincharlie]

Yes, I think those clothes were put in a plastic, weighted bag and heaved over the side of a bridge not so far away. Paranoia couldn't help but set in after one had just initiated such a vicious attack!

Why haven't we heard of any searches at all? I don't know of a murder case where LE hasn't searched for accoutrements to the crime. Should be SOP, and we know the killer didn't change and leave them at the house! Only one murderer did that I remember, and he was as dumb as they come. Y'all know who I mean, Scott Peterson. They found his fishing clothes in the dryer and said they had been washed 2 times. Maybe they were in the washer. He was a doubly dumb duffo! Scandi

{Yep, "Fishing clothes were in the dryer. Thought he had washed them more than once" Misfits}

Scandi,

How do we know this murderer didn't do the same thing ? Use the washer and dryer ? Maybe he was smart enough to mix some of Michelle's clothes in instead of just washing his own. What if the routine laundry soap was Oxyclean ? Pretty hard on DNA evidence...like blood in particular.

[Barney Fife]

But everyone else, including you, has been discussed past exhaustion. Why no information about her AT ALL? Who threatened them with death?

I am WAY PAST exhaustion talking about this case !

Seriously, LE told them to stay quiet . Their time will come on the witness stand. I heard GA girl will not even stay at home alone because she is so shaken.

[liveoutloud]

I am WAY PAST exhaustion talking about this case !

Seriously, LE told them to stay quiet . Their time will come on the witness stand. I heard GA girl will not even stay at home alone because she is so shaken.


Wow. Well, that would explain it I guess. Does that mean, in your opinion, that she is not a member of teamJY? TIA

[raisincharlie]

I am WAY PAST exhaustion talking about this case !

Seriously, LE told them to stay quiet . Their time will come on the witness stand. I heard GA girl will not even stay at home alone because she is so shaken.

The list of victims just gets longer and longer in this case. How terribly sad.

[Barney Fife]

Wow. Well, that would explain it I guess. Does that mean, in your opinion, that she is not a member of teamJY? TIA

Don't know where she and Ryan stand today. However, she is a nurse antithesis and he has his masters in electrical engineering. When emotions became detached, most smart people like them figured this out long ago.

[caffeinatd]

Don't know where she and Ryan stand today. However, she is a nurse antithesis and he has his masters in electrical engineering. When emotions became detached, most smart people like them figured this out long ago.
Do you know what her degree from NCSU was in? I know they don't have a nrsg program, any ideas where she got her nursing degree? Were her and Michelle sorority sisters at NCSU, or just sisters in the same sorority at different universities? or just friends through their husbands? Thanks...

[Barney Fife]

Do you know what her degree from NCSU was in? I know they don't have a nrsg program, any ideas where she got her nursing degree? Were her and Michelle sorority sisters at NCSU, or just sisters in the same sorority at different universities? or just friends through their husbands? Thanks...

She was in the same sorority as a "little sister"....she was a freshman when MY was either a Junior or Senior. I have no idea where she went to nursing school after NCSU

[citygirl]

Don't know where she and Ryan stand today. However, she is a nurse antithesis and he has his masters in electrical engineering. When emotions became detached, most smart people like them figured this out long ago.


Did you mean a nurse anesthetist ? So, she's smart , calm, cool under pressure. And he is an old buddy . Bet they've had many sleepless nights pondering all of this.

[Barney Fife]

Did you mean a nurse anesthetist ? So, she's smart , calm, cool under pressure. And he is an old buddy . Bet they've had many sleepless nights pondering all of this.

thanks for the correction...did spell check and it changed to that and I did not even notice

[scandi]

"I just got a mail from a gal in Michael's office who showed the Young home when it was for sale.

I'm posting it, but since she doesn't know I belong to a crime forum , I am not going to use her name.

Here is what she had to say:


VIRTUAL TOUR OF 5108 Birchleaf Dr

Stairways: from the front door, just offset to the left, carpeted stairs lead to the second floor. The master bedroom is to the left off the landing. There's only one window, in the back corner.

To the right from the landing is a doorway leading to the computer/office room with a big window looking out back.

Going further, from that room is a doorway leading to the large multipurpose room: playroom, exercise room, upstairs TV room, etc. Windows in this room look out back and front.

From that room is a doorway leading to a storage/multipurpose room over the garage with windows looking out back and front. To the right of that doorway, toward the front of the house, is a second stairway leading to the kitchen area.

At the top of the front stairway you step out onto the landing, and to the left is the MBR. Now turn and face the front of the house. To the right extending toward the front of the house is a half wall about four feet long.

It's probably primarily meant to keep someone from falling down the stairs. It also defines the hallway leading to the front of the house.

To the right is the half wall. To the left is a full bath and a bathroom/guest bathroom, almost across from the MBR door.

Take another half step (about 2 feet) toward the front of the house and on the left is the doorway to that bedroom. It has windows looking out on the front. It's not exactly across from the MBR, but down the hall about four feet.

Now, still facing the front of the house, take about three full steps (about 9 feet) and the door on the right is for a guest bedroom. It's windows look out on the front. One wall abutts the closet wall of the MBR.

Also besides the butler stairs Michael told you about, there is another short stairway from the left of the large multipurpose room leads to an attic storage room.

Scandi


ETA: Ammended to include additional info.

[raisincharlie]

Thanks for taking the time and making the effort to get this information Scandi. It definitely helps to know and to be able to visualize it. :)

[Samiya]

"I just got a mail from a gal in Michael's office who showed the Young home when it was for sale.



Well done honey!!!!!

lol, I saw your post at ctv about Lacey being dead....oops :blushing: lol

Can you ask the lady if she still has photos of the Young house on file?

TIA

Sami

[scandi]

Scandi,

How do we know this murderer didn't do the same thing ? Use the washer and dryer ? Maybe he was smart enough to mix some of Michelle's clothes in instead of just washing his own. What if the routine laundry soap was Oxyclean ? Pretty hard on DNA evidence...like blood in particular.

Good point Charlie. He could have had plenty of time to wash and dry the clothes.

If he used side swings he wouldn't have much blood on him anyway. I worry though about the blows to the left side of the head when she had to be lying on the floor. We know the combo of downward blows to the head resting on a hard surface would crack the skull, which they did. Blood could have spattered the ceiling if hw wasn't standing over her. Maybe not, there are 7' ceilings in that house. But he would have had it all over him I would think. Cast off I think from using the weapon in a downward stroke.

I don't think he was [re[ared for blood unless he wasn't trying to strangle her but rather hold her say to the wall. If he did that he must have had a coveraup on.

Scandi

PS: I just realized Charlie that one of the reasons her skull might not have cracked when hit in the back of the head is if she was being held up while being hit there with a side swing, those blows didn't have the impact to crack her skull as her head might have moved as the blows hit. Her head wasn't on a stable base, and furthermore, maybe that is why the blows were not more pointed at the back of the head. The movement of her head made that hard to accomplish.

;} Sorry to go O/T

[jilly]

Yes Scandi - I too appreciate all you are doing!:blowkiss:

[scandi]

Well done honey!!!!!

lol, I saw your post at ctv about Lacey being dead....oops :blushing: lol

Can you ask the lady if she still has photos of the Young house on file?

TIA

Sami

Hi Sami, Yes I should call her, shouldn't I? Michael told me she lives in a big house on some Lake road, and that she also has two sons. He said, if you find anyone in Raleigh with the last name of Buffaloe they are all related! LOL

I'll give her a jingle tomorrow in the morning. Hope her # is listed, and if not will get one of the sons to give her a message to please call me.

Wouldn't that be great if she sent pictures. I'd have to find someone to scan them though to put them on the web. Maybe send them to JBean or someone who can figure that out. Lord knows right now I'm just lost with photos. And I have the All In One HP that faxes, copies and scans!

Scandi

[The Saint]

Thank you for all of your hard work, Flicka.
Kinkos can scan any photos and put them on a computer disk.

is it possible that jay was striking michelle's head through a pillowcase
or sheet as to avoid a lot of blood splatter?

jmo

[scandi]

Thanks guys.

After reading that and rolling it around in my head today {as I worked ;}, I now think I know the basic plan:

1} MBr is in upper left quadrant of home, facing backyard.
2} MGBath adjoins that and is centered at back of home with widow to back.
3} Office study adjoins MBath and looks out to backyard.

4} Exit office facing front of home. On your left is door to bonus room that looks out on both front and back.
5} Next to that is door to Cassidy's room which ajoins Hall bath.
6} Across from Bathroom door to right is door to second small bedroom. Open door and walk thru 5' corridor that opens up into the bedroom which faces front with 2 windows. The inside wall of that br ajoins the back of the MBr walk-in closets which both are entered from the M/br.

7} Kitchen is under MBath and office.
8} Family/TV room under MBr.
9} Dining room under Cassidy's Br, and
10} Living room under second small bedroom.

11} Butler stairs go from kitchen in back of home up to second story, and another stair connects stairs to small attic for storage.

The only way I can see getting into that second br is through that corridor with a window to keep the Buffaloe open vault in the entry/foyer. This was done in the 5505 home, also built by Buffaloe, only then it was the MBr walk-in closet. Scandi

[scandi]

Thank you for all of your hard work, Flicka.
Kinkos can scan any photos and put them on a coputer disk.

is it possible that jay was striking michelle's head through a pillowcase
or sheet as to avoid a lot of blood splatter?

jmo

That's a possibility, but it would be hard to do I think. There was blood spatter on a {plural} walls, so we know it wasn't caught by anything. Maybe Sami has some idea about the blows to the side of the ear area that would result in cast off which would hit anyone square in the face I would think if they are standing over her. It is hard to know exactly how it would go. Scandi

[The Saint]

Hey Raisin! I had the same thought about him trying to hurry up and find some clothes so he could get the heck out of there. It would be a bit frustrating trying to figure out just what to wear after brutally murdering your wife. What sort of outfit would that call for?

something in black or camoflage.

imo

[The Saint]

Barney

Are you kidding? Have you told this information before? If so, I missed it. This is pretty big. I know I had heard that the GA friend was pro JY. This would explain why. IIRC though, it seemed as if I heard or read that the GA friend had had a change of heart. Do you know if this is true or not? By any chance? For that matter, do you know why nothing, absolutely nothing has ever been said about her. Not in the media, not by LE. Not on any of these message boards. Why?


I think that it was JTF who said that GA knows that jason didn't kill michelle.

that could have been a presumption on JTF's part. she presumed that GA
would support jason because she was married to jason's best friend.

i don't think that GA and ryan will ignore the evidence when they see it, especially when they see the whole picture.

imo

[raisincharlie]

I sure hope she does not do one of those "I can't recall" lines. After all, she is married to Jason's old pal and condo mate, Ryan Schaad.

Barney, to your knowledge is it true that GA friend definitiely did not believe Jason was connected to Michelle's murder in the beginning ? TIA

[raisincharlie]

something in black or camoflage.

imo

Hey Bud :cool:

I can't seem to get too excited about the issue of the clothes and whether GA friend saw what Jason was wearing or not. What if she told LE that JY was wearing black pants and a white shirt and what if when he grabbed clothes out of the closet he happened to grab a white shirt and black pants ? Unless he was wearing something unusual, I'm not sure LE will know for sure if those clothes are missing or not.

Downer- let me have it :slap:

[The Saint]

Yes, I think those clothes were put in a plastic, weighted bag and heaved over the side of a bridge not so far away. Paranoia couldn't help but set in after one had just initiated such a vicious attack!

Why haven't we heard of any searches at all? I don't know of a murder case where LE hasn't searched for accoutrements to the crime. Should be SOP, and we know the killer didn't change and leave them at the house! Only one murderer did that I remember, and he was as dumb as they come. Y'all know who I mean, Scott Peterson. They found his fishing clothes in the dryer and said they had been washed 2 times. Maybe they were in the washer. He was a doubly dumb duffo! Scandi

{Yep, "Fishing clothes were in the dryer. Thought he had washed them more than once" Misfits}


There is a cul-de-sac inside Enchanted Oaks where there are not many
homes built yet. I believe that there is just one house there. The cul-de-sac backs up to a deep part of Wheeler Lake. It is accessable to all EO residents without having to go through a gate.

jay could have parked, gone down the hill from one of the vacant lots
and tossed the weighted evidence into the lake. It would be unlikely that he would have been seen.

LE probably knows about this cul-de-sac. or do you think one of you who have contact with WCSD should notify them?

imo

[Barney Fife]

RPD, to your knowledge is it true that GA friend definitiely did not believe Jason was connected to Michelle's murder in the beginning ? TIA

From what I understand, most of MY's friends could not believe Jason did this early on (at least until MM affair was revealed). Fiona was the exception. She was very vocal early on with her opinion of Jason's guilt

[raisincharlie]

From what I understand, most of MY's friends could not believe Jason did this early on (at least until MM affair was revealed). Fiona was the exception. She was very vocal early on with her opinion of Jason's guilt

Thanks - appreciate that information very much.

[Barney Fife]

There is a cul-de-sac inside Enchanted Oaks where there are not many
homes built yet. I believe that there is just one house there. The cul-de-sac backs up to a deep part of Wheeler Lake. It is accessable to all EO residents without having to go through a gate.

jay could have parked, gone down the hill from one of the vacant lots
and tossed the weighted evidence into the lake. It would be unlikely that he would have been seen.

LE probably knows about this cul-de-sac. or do you think one of you who have contact with WCSD should notify them?

imo

I would guess when he left the house after the murder, he drove straight out. He would not want to risk anyone in that neighborhood seeing his vehicle. He could have disposed of the bag of cloths almost anywhere along the way back to Virginia.

[The Saint]

From what I understand, most of MY's friends could not believe Jason did this early on (at least until MM affair was revealed). Fiona was the exception. She was very vocal early on with her opinion of Jason's guilt


That explains why JTF made snide references about Fiona in her posts at CTV.

imo

[raisincharlie]

Hey Bud :cool:

I can't seem to get too excited about the issue of the clothes and whether GA friend saw what Jason was wearing or not. What if she told LE that JY was wearing black pants and a white shirt and what if when he grabbed clothes out of the closet he happened to grab a white shirt and black pants ? Unless he was wearing something unusual, I'm not sure LE will know for sure if those clothes are missing or not.

Downer- let me have it :slap:

ETA - unless LE found a bundle of bloody clothes somewhere that happen to have Michelle's DNA on them.

[The Saint]

ETA - unless LE found a bundle of bloody clothes somewhere that happen to have Michelle's DNA on them.

But what if GA told LE what jay was wearing when he left and then jay
can't produce that same outfit?

that would look pretty damning and would be one more piece of CE
to put in front of a jury.

imo

[philamena]

I am WAY PAST exhaustion talking about this case !

Seriously, LE told them to stay quiet . Their time will come on the witness stand. I heard GA girl will not even stay at home alone because she is so shaken.

Any idea, even a tiny hint as to when an arrest will be made?
I can't for the life of me figure out why arresting the poi is taking so long.:banghead:
A beautiful, pregnant mommy was brutally murdered in her own home while her little girl was home...lots of blood but nothing happening the arrest dept. Makes absolutely no sense.

[Samiya]

Well well well,

It seems ctv was shut down again so I'll post my question to Jake here.

Why was Michelle's jewellry box in JASON'S closet?

Sami

[scandi]

There is a cul-de-sac inside Enchanted Oaks where there are not many
homes built yet. I believe that there is just one house there. The cul-de-sac backs up to a deep part of Wheeler Lake. It is accessable to all EO residents without having to go through a gate.

jay could have parked, gone down the hill from one of the vacant lots
and tossed the weighted evidence into the lake. It would be unlikely that he would have been seen.

LE probably knows about this cul-de-sac. or do you think one of you who have contact with WCSD should notify them?

imo

You got me giggling now, and I just got here! I don't know if we have anyone here who could get info out of LE. Although if they were asked as a general inquiry if they have done any land or water searches for accoutrements I would think that would be OK for them to tell us, don't you? :D Fat chance on a blue moon, right? lol

[scandi]

Well well well,

It seems ctv was shut down again so I'll post my question to Jake here.

Why was Michelle's jewellry box in JASON'S closet?

Sami

That is an interesting question Sami. I saw you asked earlier if it was in his closet, so you got a great tidbit. I can't imagine why!

[The Saint]

You got me giggling now, and I just got here! I don't know if we have anyone here who could get info out of LE. Although if they were asked as a general inquiry if they have done any land or water searches for accoutrements I would think that would be OK for them to tell us, don't you? :D Fat chance on a blue moon, right? lol

Scandi,

I meant to tell them to look there if they haven't already.
I didn't mean that they would reveal whether they looked there to one of us.

imo

[The Saint]

Well well well,

It seems ctv was shut down again so I'll post my question to Jake here.

Why was Michelle's jewellry box in JASON'S closet?

Sami

perhaps jay got back in the house while the girls were watching Grey Anatomy. after GA left, michelle went upstairs and discovered jay
sitting inside his walk-in closet, rifling through her jewelry box in order to get things to pawn or sell.

if michelle had issued a "get out" ultimatum earlier that day, he might have taken that jewelry to spite her or to finance his next move.

this could have caused an explosive argument.

imo

[Samiya]

perhaps jay got back in the house while the girls were watching Grey Anatomy. after GA left, michelle went upstairs and discovered jay
sitting inside his walk-in closet, rifling through her jewelry box in order to get things to pawn or sell.

if michelle had issued a "get out" ultimatum earlier that day, he might have taken that jewelry to spite her or to finance his next move.

this could have caused an explosive argument.

imo

:doh:

I don't mean to sound rude Saint, but the question is to Jake which is why 'to Jake' is in blue. I have a lead I'd like to follow up on. So I'll ask again.

Jake,

Why was Michelle's jewellry box in JASON'S closet?

Sami

[Bee Charmer]

:doh:

I don't mean to sound rude Saint, but the question is to Jake which is why 'to Jake' is in blue. I have a lead I'd like to follow up on. So I'll ask again.

Jake,

Why was Michelle's jewellry box in JASON'S closet?

Sami

Hi Sami. I am thinking that perhaps Michelle owned the large
armoire type of box, on legs, and kept it in JY's closet because there was
more room there. I hope Jake can respond to your question, it's interesting to me.

I found the report that his closet appeared to be "ransacked" curious also.

[Mama-cita]

Hi Sami. I am thinking that perhaps Michelle owned the large
armoire type of box, on legs, and kept it in JY's closet because there was
more room there. I hope Jake can respond to your question, it's interesting to me.

I found the report that his closet appeared to be "ransacked" curious also.
I would tend to think the woman gets the larger closet, at least that's how I have always done things, hubby doesn't have as much stuff as me so I get the walk-in, he gets the plain old reach in. If Michelle had a walk-in, it would make much more sense to me for the jewelry box to be in there (if it was a big one, if it was a small one, I would think it would be on an armoire or highboy like most women...)
MOO

[Bee Charmer]

I would tend to think the woman gets the larger closet, at least that's how I have always done things, hubby doesn't have as much stuff as me so I get the walk-in, he gets the plain old reach in. If Michelle had a walk-in, it would make much more sense to me for the jewelry box to be in there (if it was a big one, if it was a small one, I would think it would be on an armoire or highboy like most women...)
MOO

Do we know that the master suite only had one walk-in
closet?

[raisincharlie]

Do we know that the master suite only had one walk-in
closet?

Hello Bee Charmer,

Quite a while back, and sorry I can't link you to the post as the author has had it deleted, someone posted that JYs closet had been ransacked ( I do have a copy of the post) and I wondered why the wording "Jason's closet". This wording tends to indicate one of two things - either there are two closets, or the author simply believes everything in the house belongs to no one but Jason.

I have no way of knowing the truthfulness of this poster, but will admit most is taken with the proverbial box of salt. Scandi is currently on a mission to find out. You know Scandi - she will find out so we will need to wait a bit but we will know.

ALso of note, this same poster gave numerous excuses as to why "Jason's closet" was ransacked. The excuses ranged from LF and MF being in the house before Jason's family, to LE did it, to the killers doing it - yes killers plural, while they held Michelle at knife point. Of course I am wondering why LF and MF would even bother with JY's closet - unless Sami is correct and Michelle's jewelry was stored in JY's closet. But then again, why ransack his closet ? The undertone that Michelle's Mom and Sis stole jewelry is always troubling to me until I consider the source. I am also curious why LE would ransack only JY's closet since it was his wife who was murdered. And honestly, I find the two killer theory with a knife pretty silly given Michelle had no stab wounds to her body.

So hang in there - Scandi to the rescue !

[Bee Charmer]

Hi there RC! I have full faith in Scandi, a super
sleuther who gets to the bottom of things. I missed the reference to the "ransacking" and was interested in it because in the scott peterson case, as you know, the Prosecution made much of the closet that peterson used, in
the spare room, and the condition is was found to be in on the night
of that murder.

[raisincharlie]

Hi there RC! I have full faith in Scandi, a super
sleuther who gets to the bottom of things. I missed the reference to the "ransacking" and was interested in it because in the scott peterson case, as you know, the Prosecution made much of the closet that peterson used, in
the spare room, and the condition is was found to be in on the night
of that murder.



Yes I recall the closet and dufflebag issue from the Peterson case. I believe there is a distinct possiblity that JY's closet was indeed ransacked, most likely by the murderer trying to get clean clothes. I do not buy that LF and MF ransacked it, nor that LE would ransack only JY's closet. What people saw in that home after LE had it for 13 days, most likely was only a faint resemblance of what LE saw when they first arrived.

[jake]

Hello Bee Charmer,

Quite a while back, and sorry I can't link you to the post as the author has had it deleted, someone posted that JYs closet had been ransacked ( I do have a copy of the post) and I wondered why the wording "Jason's closet". This wording tends to indicate one of two things - either there are two closets, or the author simply believes everything in the house belongs to no one but Jason.

I have no way of knowing the truthfulness of this poster, but will admit most is taken with the proverbial box of salt. Scandi is currently on a mission to find out. You know Scandi - she will find out so we will need to wait a bit but we will know.

ALso of note, this same poster gave numerous excuses as to why "Jason's closet" was ransacked. The excuses ranged from LF and MF being in the house before Jason's family, to LE did it, to the killers doing it - yes killers plural, while they held Michelle at knife point. Of course I am wondering why LF and MF would even bother with JY's closet - unless Sami is correct and Michelle's jewelry was stored in JY's closet. But then again, why ransack his closet ? The undertone that Michelle's Mom and Sis stole jewelry is always troubling to me until I consider the source. I am also curious why LE would ransack only JY's closet since it was his wife who was murdered. And honestly, I find the two killer theory with a knife pretty silly given Michelle had no stab wounds to her body.

So hang in there - Scandi to the rescue !

Howdy,

"No stab wounds"? If you don't mind, will you tell where you got that information? I'd like to add that to my book.

Thanks.

--Jake

[jake]

Hi there RC! I have full faith in Scandi, a super
sleuther who gets to the bottom of things. I missed the reference to the "ransacking" and was interested in it because in the scott peterson case, as you know, the Prosecution made much of the closet that peterson used, in
the spare room, and the condition is was found to be in on the night
of that murder.



Howdy,

I'll second that about Scandi. She is a super sleuther!

--Jake

[raisincharlie]

Howdy,

"No stab wounds"? If you don't mind, will you tell where you got that information? I'd like to add that to my book.

Thanks.

--Jake

The AR - no stab wounds referenced nor noted.

[jake]

[quote=raisincharlie;1432224]Hello Bee Charmer,

Quite a while back, and sorry I can't link you to the post as the author has had it deleted, someone posted that JYs closet had been ransacked ( I do have a copy of the post) and I wondered why the wording "Jason's closet". This wording tends to indicate one of two things - either there are two closets, or the author simply believes everything in the house belongs to no one but Jason.

SNIPPED+++++++++++++++++++

I believe everything in the house does belong to Jason.

--Jake

[raisincharlie]

[quote=raisincharlie;1432224]Hello Bee Charmer,

Quite a while back, and sorry I can't link you to the post as the author has had it deleted, someone posted that JYs closet had been ransacked ( I do have a copy of the post) and I wondered why the wording "Jason's closet". This wording tends to indicate one of two things - either there are two closets, or the author simply believes everything in the house belongs to no one but Jason.

SNIPPED+++++++++++++++++++

I believe everything in the house does belong to Jason.

--Jake

Unfortunately - it now does, but while his wife was alive that was not the case.

[jake]

[quote=raisincharlie;1432224]Hello Bee Charmer,


I have no way of knowing the truthfulness of this poster, but will admit most is taken with the proverbial box of salt. Scandi is currently on a mission to find out. You know Scandi - she will find out so we will need to wait a bit but we will know.

Howdy,

I believe the original poster was JTF with maybe two others also posting the same thing. Plenty of salt needed there!

--Jake

[Scout]

Yes I recall the closet and dufflebag issue from the Peterson case. I believe there is a distinct possiblity that JY's closet was indeed ransacked, most likely by the murderer trying to get clean clothes. I do not buy that LF and MF ransacked it, nor that LE would ransack only JY's closet. What people saw in that home after LE had it for 13 days, most likely was only a faint resemblance of what LE saw when they first arrived.

I can't understand why the killer would need to ransack the closet to find something to wear. I'd think he'd just grab something and put it on. If the closet was ransacked, there must be some other reason.

Jake, was there any blood inside the closet? Was the door still on the closet when you saw it? Was there blood on the inside of the door, the outside of the door, or both?

[jake]

:doh:

I don't mean to sound rude Saint, but the question is to Jake which is why 'to Jake' is in blue. I have a lead I'd like to follow up on. So I'll ask again.

Jake,

Why was Michelle's jewellry box in JASON'S closet?

Sami

Howdy,

Is that a riddle? Okay, what makes you think it was?

--Jake

[Scout]

[quote=jake;1432302]

Unfortunately - it now does, but while his wife was alive that was not the case.


I'm not sure that's true. Michelle's share belongs to her estate, which hasn't been handed over to Jason just yet, as far as I know.

[Bee Charmer]

Yes I recall the closet and dufflebag issue from the Peterson case. I believe there is a distinct possiblity that JY's closet was indeed ransacked, most likely by the murderer trying to get clean clothes. I do not buy that LF and MF ransacked it, nor that LE would ransack only JY's closet. What people saw in that home after LE had it for 13 days, most likely was only a faint resemblance of what LE saw when they first arrived.

I agree. Anything out of place in JY's closet is the
direct result of his actions, imo. If you recall, Sheriff Harrison in one
of his statements noted that no one entered the crimescene until
the forensic unit arrived and went in first. That means there are
photographs of exactly what that bedroom looked like, that night. IMO.
I hope they videotaped too, but I don't know what the procedure is
there in NC.

[jake]

perhaps jay got back in the house while the girls were watching Grey Anatomy. after GA left, michelle went upstairs and discovered jay
sitting inside his walk-in closet, rifling through her jewelry box in order to get things to pawn or sell.

if michelle had issued a "get out" ultimatum earlier that day, he might have taken that jewelry to spite her or to finance his next move.

this could have caused an explosive argument.

imo

Howdy,

I think you've got that right: A husband trying to steal his wife's jewelry would touch off an explosion!

--Jake

[raisincharlie]

[quote=raisincharlie;1432224]Hello Bee Charmer,


I have no way of knowing the truthfulness of this poster, but will admit most is taken with the proverbial box of salt. Scandi is currently on a mission to find out. You know Scandi - she will find out so we will need to wait a bit but we will know.

Howdy,

I believe the original poster was JTF with maybe two others also posting the same thing. Plenty of salt needed there!

--Jake

So I take it you were not in the house then - just repeating what others have posted before you ? Okay, got it now. Thanks

[raisincharlie]

I can't understand why the killer would need to ransack the closet to find something to wear. I'd think he'd just grab something and put it on. If the closet was ransacked, there must be some other reason.

Jake, was there any blood inside the closet? Was the door still on the closet when you saw it? Was there blood on the inside of the door, the outside of the door, or both?

I'm pretty sure there is another reason, especially if the jewelry box was in the closet and we have been told repeatedly that the drawers were missing and the jewelry was stolen.