WA-King County Jane Doe

[Julessleuther]

I searched and did not find any other posts for her. This one seems so solveable, there are so many details given in the description!

http://meyahna.tripod.com/pg17.html


http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/159ufwa.html

[Jaded]

I wonder if the IUD would have had a lot number to cross reference to what physician it was sold to?

[Julessleuther]

I wonder if the IUD would have had a lot number to cross reference to what physician it was sold to?

I do not think she was sold to a physician. Under the first link, near the bottom of the page is this:

Her body was embalmed and buried at King's County expense in Seattle's Crown Hill Cemetery at Grave No. 197-A.

[Jaded]

I do not think she was sold to a physician. Under the first link, near the bottom of the page is this:

Her body was embalmed and buried at King's County expense in Seattle's Crown Hill Cemetery at Grave No. 197-A.

IUD - the birth control device that they said she had. Generally medical devices have serial numbers or lot numbers. I wonder if they are able to ascertain if the IUD (intrauterine device) has such a number.

[Julessleuther]

IUD - the birth control device that they said she had. Generally medical devices have serial numbers or lot numbers. I wonder if they are able to ascertain if the IUD (intrauterine device) has such a number.

Ohhh! Duhhhh! Sorry about that Jaded!! I was thinking UID (Unidentified) See, I think I need to mainline Starbucks before I do anything in the morning, I just cannot function without coffee!! :) :angel:

[LisainWV]

The 2 reconstructs on doenetwork look like 2 entirely different people.

If i'm not mistaken, IUD's are left in for extended periods of time?

Wonder what breast surgery she would have had? Certainly not implants, ot they would have mentioned that?

[Julessleuther]

The 2 reconstructs on doenetwork look like 2 entirely different people.

If i'm not mistaken, IUD's are left in for extended periods of time?

Wonder what breast surgery she would have had? Certainly not implants, ot they would have mentioned that?

I agree-when I read the description of her and saw the picture, I thought she was alot thinner than they described. The second picture appears to be more what her size woud have been. I was wondering about the surgery too--I wonder if she had breast cancer?

[Jaded]

Maybe she had breast reduction. If she would have had implants, again those implants would have serial numbers on them that would allow LE to narrow down who she was.

I'm not sure how long IUD's are placed.

[LisainWV]

Info on iud's....

http://www.fwhc.org/birth-control/iudinfo.htm

last 1- 10 years.
2 types - paraguard and mirena. paraguard is the type with the copper wire (this is what Jane doe had).

Read down on this site and it says the other type mirena, cannot be used in someone with a history of BREAST CANCER. Her breast surgeries may well have been to remove lumps.

[teonspaleprincess]

I thought they stopped doing the copper ones?

[Sable]

If I had to guess based on experience, I would say it sounds like the scars are from a breast reduction. I had one done a few years ago, and the description of the scars sounds a lot like my scars with only one exception. They didn't mention (which might mean there wasn't) a scar down the center from nipple to bottom. There are other ways the surgery is performed, based on the current size and what size you want them to be reduced to. The anchor (what I have) is the most common. I'd have to look it up to be sure, but it might be possible to have them reduced and end up with just the scar along the bottom and the scar around the nipple. Also, wanted to add that a lot of times the surgery is considered cosmetic, but it's possible that insurance (if she had it) could have paid for some or all of it.

It sounds to me that she had a fairly well paying job, considering the makeup found. It's the expensive stuff.... completely different price range than what we sell at Walgreens (I work the cosmetics department at a Walgreens). Also, since the IUD suggests she was sexually active, perhaps she worked as an escort? I mean no offense, but that type of job I assume would pay someone the money to be able to afford the more expensive makeup and provide a reason for needing an IUD along with the possibility of that being the reason she had no family. If she worked as an escort perhaps she was disowned because her family didn't approve. This is one of many many possibilities, and I just wanted to throw my opinon out there. Anything is possible.

Another thing about the makeup... It's most likely too late, and may not have even been the case, but back in October I went shopping with my mom and she bought me something from the Estee Lauder counter. I had one of those free makeovers and they had me fill out a card with my information and the products I liked/tried. It was a promotion they were doing and they said they would keep it on file for a year so that if I came back wanting to purchase one of the items I tried, I would have no problem finding the color or product. Maybe something similar was done when the UID purchased her makeup?

[rpipergirl]

Her psydomym was "Mary Anderson/Andrews" depending on which article you read. She killed herself in a fancy hotel called Hotel Vintage Park in Seatle,WA.
Doe network info: Estimated age: 33 - 45 years old
Approximate Height and Weight: 5'8"; 240 lbs.
Distinguishing Characteristics: Reddish-brown hair and brown eyes. She used a copper intrauterine device. She had some sort of breast surgery at some point. It had produced scars beneath both breast and around the nipple area. Her hair was combed, her nails were painted cream white and she wore make-up.
Dentals: Dental plate
Clothing: She wore black leggings and a black top.
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/159ufwa.html

This is a case my mom Sadnews on here has been working on,so, I thought I'd add her to see what ideas we could come up with if we all put our heads together.

[Julessleuther]

There is already a thread here:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48613&highlight=King+County+Jane+Doe

Mods, can you combine?

[Julessleuther]

Bumping so mods can combine with Mary Anderson thread.

[Julessleuther]

This woman went missing a few yrs prior, and there is not info on breast surgery, but the composite at the bottom is a dead ringer!

Elizabeth Mary Allen

http://www.theyaremissed.org/ncma/gallery/ncmaprofile_all.php?A200604918S

I do not know how to do side by sides, but the images are very close, and her middle name is Mary!

[Julessleuther]

I did a search of the address that she listed in NYC--it is a valid address, and there appears to be an apartment building across the street from the address. I wonder how LE determined that the address listed was a non-existent address? Also, I did a search for the NYC telephone number she gave, and that is a working number as of now.

The hotel in Seattle that she was found at, Hotel Vintage Park is a luxury boutique hotel, and runs approx $280-350 per night now.

On this site it stated that she had bilateral breast surgery:
http://www.seattlepi.com/dayart/pdf/20030224unidentifieddead.pdf

Bilateral breast surgery could be used for breast reduction, augmentation, and a breast lift.

[tatertot]

You have to wonder how she got the cyanide and why she chose to mix it with Metamucil? That's a fiber supplement you wouldn't expect someone in her age range to typically have around (someone correct me if I'm wrong.) Unless there's something about Metamucil that makes it especially effective to mix with cyanide, maybe she had some digestive ailment and that's why she chose it instead of something like juice or iced tea.

[defender123]

Glad to see some interest in this case. I have spent hours looking at doe's for this one.
I always had the feeling she just wanted to be left alone. Like the weight issues just wore her out. having the breast reduction etc. She cared about her appearance, hence the good makeup and clothes.
Maybe she had major credit card debt? Could not take any more.
The IUD indicates she was at some point sexually active. I can not believe no one missed her.!
I also would have thought the makeup would contain some traces. At least the city it came from.
For got to mention on the Doenetwork there is some post mortum photos

[Julessleuther]

Can you post a link to the post mordem? Are the photos on Doe accurate? Glad to see some interest in this case. I have spent hours looking at doe's for this one.
I always had the feeling she just wanted to be left alone. Like the weight issues just wore her out. having the breast reduction etc. She cared about her appearance, hence the good makeup and clothes.
Maybe she had major credit card debt? Could not take any more.
The IUD indicates she was at some point sexually active. I can not believe no one missed her.!
I also would have thought the makeup would contain some traces. At least the city it came from.
For got to mention on the Doenetwork there is some post mortum photos

[defender123]

Will do as soon as I get some help. Not to swift at all this computer stuff
Yes the photos seem to be correct.

[rpipergirl]

Sadnews and I have questions about this case and the things we found most interesting. 1. Why did she rent the room for 2 days.
2. why did she bring so much luggage and hang clothes in closet.
3. why did she bring an iron and a kitchen bowl. was the bowl of some value either sentimental or monitary if the former why did she not unpack said bowl.
Thank you defender for the photos. We had never sen them before. Are there any of the bowl iron or her other belongings?

[defender123]

http://www.doenetwork.org/media/news124.html

[jessunlil]

Her hair looks neat and styled, her make-up and nails looks nice and her eyebrows look professionally done.

Not sure what my point is, but she just doesn't look like the kind of person who could simply disappear and have no one notice.

I've been looking at missing persons from Canada, hoping maybe the maple leaves were some sort of clue, but haven't found any possibles yet.

[Julessleuther]

Thank you for this info, it definitely gives us more of a sense of who she was, as well as additional info. I wish we could get Mr. Webster here to give some insight to this...


http://www.doenetwork.org/media/news124.html

[hmg]

The article mentions the IUD's serial number was partially missing.

I feel like she had to have some familiarity with New York. It's one thing to use the 212-area code and that street address as they are familiar even to people outside of NY but the Astoria (Queens) zip code I feel would only be known by someone familiar with the area or who had family or friends, etc. in that area.

[Julessleuther]

OK, a couple of questions/comments:

It was said in the article that she came to the hotel by cab. Where did the cab pick her up to go to the hotel?

Did LE check flights to see if a Mary Anderson had arrived in Seattle? (This would have been before Sep 11th, and airline passenger logs were not as stictly supervised...)


Where did the autopsy photos go?



I googled Mary Anderson, and there was a soap opera character from Days of Our Lives by the name of Mary Anderson. There is also an actress from Peyton Place named Mary Anderson. I wonder if she "borrowed" one of their names.

[tatertot]

Rpipergirl, some of her belongings do seem odd, especially the bowl and iron that you mentioned. Bringing the iron may have been an old habit as she seemed like she'd been well-groomed throughout her life, but her outfits were velour and does that fabric even require ironing? Unless the iron was for the black top and leggings she died wearing...

The bowl is strange. I wonder if it had sentimental value or was especially valuable and she knew her belongings back at home would eventually be discarded when she failed to return, so she brought it with her. You think she'd give it to a close friend if she truly had no family rather than let it sit in a police evidence room, though.

[justthinkin]

Interesting case. She looks a bit older to me, say 50-55 yrs. of age. With the uid device, it's more than likely she was unmarried, but obviously still having a period. Surely if she had been married, she'd have been missed.

That kind of weight could suggest something emotional going on. Wonder if she lost a loved one during the 9/11/01 attacks on NY, and decided life was no longer worth living?

OTOH, I think she was from NY, and didn't want to be found, so she flew to Seattle.

You'd think someone in LE would've checked to see who flew into Seattle from New York on the day she checked into the hotel.

I tend to ignore drawings done by the Neville guy from Doe Network as there's just something about his drawings that seems to come more from his psyche than from the UIDs he sketches. KWIM?

I think quite a few overweight women wear the leggings which are just stretch type pants that make the lower half of the body look slimmer. Ahumm, First hand experience talking here. : )
The plus size slacks usually have wide legs which make the body look even heavier. Dumb designers.

Stick with the actual photograph for IDing, and just envision the cheeks slightly fuller & a bit higher. The muscles relax upon death so that has to be taken into consideration. LE doesn't even rely on photos for IDing people so we're at a disadvantage as that's what we have to work with beyond clothing and any jewelry a dec'd. might have been wearing.

[hmg]

I agree she looks older than her mid-30s to me but its hard to know for sure based on her face.

The 9/11 theory is out as she was found deceased in 1996.

[Julessleuther]

I looked up the manufacturer of her coat, and they are based out of Oregon. I have been unable to find out if they are a large or small regional company, but it appears that they make men's clothing, so her coat may have been a mans.

I am not familiar with Seattle in the fall, it is generally cold enough to be wearing gloves? If not, then she had to have come from a place where it was cold enough to wear gloves, as they were found with her.

She had eight pairs of clothing, so she had either been traveling for awhile, or was planning to travel more, otherwise why pack eight if you were not going to wear them?

Another story about her:

http://www.wahmee.com/misc_kcmeo.pdf

[justthinkin]

I agree she looks older than her mid-30s to me but its hard to know for sure based on her face.

The 9/11 theory is out as she was found deceased in 1996.

hmg, ha, thanks. I guess I dreamed up 2005. Maybe I was looking at an article about her printed in 05. Duh, some days ya feel like a nut...

[Julessleuther]

Went missing several years prior, but similar stats, and the Metamucil (I thought) did originate in AZ:

Pamela Page

http://www.theyaremissed.org/ncma/gallery/ncmaprofile_all.php?A200401689S

[hmg]

I am not familiar with Seattle in the fall, it is generally cold enough to be wearing gloves? If not, then she had to have come from a place where it was cold enough to wear gloves, as they were found with her.


I used to go to Seattle every fall for my job. I found it to be mild, not glove weather. According to Seattletravel.com the average high temperature in October is 60 degrees. Cityrating.com says 52. However if she came from the mountainous region just to the east of Seattle it could be much colder.

[hmg]

hmg, ha, thanks. I guess I dreamed up 2005. Maybe I was looking at an article about her printed in 05. Duh, some days ya feel like a nut...

Hahaha, I make the same types of mistakes all the time going through these cases. :crazy:

[hmg]

I just noticed the gloves were from Nordstrom. Nordstrom is based in Seattle and had a limited presence outside of the west coast/ Alaska at the time. A catalog division began in 1993 so it's possible the gloves were ordered from there. However, given Nordstrom's strong presence in Seattle I think it's a good bet the gloves were purchased there. It's a huge tourist attraction though so it's possible she was not a local and bought the gloves while shopping in the city.

[rpipergirl]

Rpipergirl, some of her belongings do seem odd, especially the bowl and iron that you mentioned. Bringing the iron may have been an old habit as she seemed like she'd been well-groomed throughout her life, but her outfits were velour and does that fabric even require ironing? Unless the iron was for the black top and leggings she died wearing...

The bowl is strange. I wonder if it had sentimental value or was especially valuable and she knew her belongings back at home would eventually be discarded when she failed to return, so she brought it with her. You think she'd give it to a close friend if she truly had no family rather than let it sit in a police evidence room, though.
Tatertot, I agree it could have ment something to her but why wouldn't she have had it out of her luggage. Also I wonder if she was murdered. Maybe she did not know the cyinide was in her Metamucil or Crystal Light. I agree that she would not have brought so many clothes if she was just going to kill herself. You are right about the valuer ,who the heck would iron it.

[MadeaBecBec]

How about this missing lady, when I saw her photo, I almost fell over!!
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/488dfny.html
Sandra Ann Sollie
Missing since May 23, 1994 from Macedon, New York.
Classification: Endangered Missing
Vital Statistics

Date Of Birth: December 10, 1955
Age at Time of Disappearance: 38 years old
Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 5'5"; 130-140 lbs.
Distinguishing Characteristics: White female. Brown eyes; dark brown hair.
Marks, Scars: Birthmark on abdomen. Scar on upper lip. Pierced ears.
Medical Conditions: Sollie was about seven months pregnant.
AKA: Sandy, Sandra Cervone

Ms. Sollie was also 7 months pregnant when she went missing!! What if Ms. Sollie travelled somewhere to give birth to her child (which would've been around July or August 1994) and hand the baby over for adoption, went to Seattle perhaps, then suffered from depression, checked into a hospital or something for awhile, tried to get her life in order and then.......

Here's the side by sides-Jane is in the middle!!

[Julessleuther]

Actually, there were Nordstrom stores in Alaska and Southern CA by the late 1970's, and had 26 stores in CA by the early 1990's. They also opened a store in Virginia in 1988, one in Illinois by 1991, and Dallas by 1996. According to Wiki, Nordstroms had opened 46 stores across the country by 1995. (I used to work for a travel agency in New York in the early 1990's, and Nordstroms was one of our corporate accounts. Travelers went all over the country.) Perhaps she bought them in Seattle, but if she had luggage etc, then most likely she brought them with her.

I just noticed the gloves were from Nordstrom. Nordstrom is based in Seattle and had a limited presence outside of the west coast/ Alaska at the time. A catalog division began in 1993 so it's possible the gloves were ordered from there. However, given Nordstrom's strong presence in Seattle I think it's a good bet the gloves were purchased there. It's a huge tourist attraction though so it's possible she was not a local and bought the gloves while shopping in the city.

[hmg]

Actually, there were Nordstrom stores in Alaska and Southern CA by the late 1970's, and had 26 stores in CA by the early 1990's. They also opened a store in Virginia in 1988, one in Illinois by 1991, and Dallas by 1996. According to Wiki, Nordstroms had opened 46 stores across the country by 1995. (I used to work for a travel agency in New York in the early 1990's, and Nordstroms was one of our corporate accounts. Travelers went all over the country.) Perhaps she bought them in Seattle, but if she had luggage etc, then most likely she brought them with her.

I misspoke in saying the gloves were probably from Seattle. My point really was that Nordstom had a very limited presence outside of the west coast/ Alaska except for catalog shipping and a few stores until very recently. Coupled with the fact that her glasses may be from Bon Marche, another Seattle based retailer with a limited presence outside of the west, it may be a valuable point to consider.

Then again she could have ordered her gloves from Nordstrom and gone to JC Penny for the glasses. It's too bad we can't find out exactly which chain she bought the glasses at.

[justthinkin]

From what we know about this woman, I would say she was methodical, meticulous, and cared very much about her appearance, but not to the extent that she would give up wearing comfortable clothing.

Velour was quite popular in the plus size shops, and most often used in casual sporting wear for a dressier than gym clothing look, but with the comfort of sweats. It can be made from cotton or polyester according to Wikipedia. Neither of those fabrics lend themselves to keeping a person warm in cold weather.

The iron suggests two things to me. Either she was traveling or she was obsessive compulsive about wrinkles in her clothing, and likely obsessive about other things.

I would expect to find her working in accounting or some other very detail oriented job, but not in a front office capacity in say, the financial district in New York. Her clothing does not speak to front office apparel or to working in a place where a company is trying to impress its clients.

Had she been from NY wouldn't her accent have been noticed in Seattle? No mention was made of an accent if IIRC.


If this woman had no close relatives or friends, was single, had lost her job, she might not have been missed by anyone, sadly.

On the subject of suicide, I have some experience since that's how my late husband died. People who commit suicide in the home usually have some resentment or grudge against the marriage partner or person they were living with. OTOH those who leave home to die, do so wanting to spare the person they lived with in the twisted thinking of a suicidal person. My husband left home.

This leads me to consider that she did leave someone who cared behind or else she was such a hermit, she was afraid no one would find her for a long time if she died in her own home so she chose a hotel, knowing when she didn't check out in the usual manner, she would be discovered quickly. Even in death, she was concerned about her appearance. The fact that she left a note stating that
"it's no one's fault," tells me there was an important someone or important others in her life.

Not all people who commit suicide are depressed. Sometimes it's an easy way out of a life situation they simply just don't want to face. It's the 9th. leading cause of death in the US.

[MadeaBecBec]

I wanted to add another possibility that Ms. Sollie could be this Jane, regarding the kitchen bowl, Ms. Sollies little dog (a poodle) went missing with her, maybe that was the point for having kept a bowl in the room. Jane may have needed a bowl for food and water for a pet! If the pet had just died, that could be a reason for depression and feeling hopeless! I know, I had a beloved pet pass away, just last March, and I still get teary eyed and miss him dearly! I have wonderful children and the sweetest grands, though, to keep me busy and laughing....:blowkiss:
So, even if Ms. Sollie is ruled out, the bowl being for a pet, should still be considered.
I am going to go ahead and email this info to Ms. Sollies investigator, it couldn't hurt, right? It may also help in getting both cases back in the light!

[justthinkin]

Madea, this Jane Doe had never given birth. She was also 5'8" tall, and weighed 240lbs.

[justthinkin]

I've taken the only photo we have, and have done a little touch up work. Hey, I ain't no ar-Tiest" so if you think it should go back into file 13 alrighty. I've done this before with one or two others, but feel a bit more confident to display this one. It's by no means perfect. All I try to do is to give the person a smile, and make them look a little lively. I was surprised as she suddenly looked years younger after removing the dark circles under her eyes. She kind of looks like Hillary Clinton. I made tiny alterations to the lower corners of her eyes removing a bit of that sagging eye look.

[jessunlil]

My colorization attempt, click to enlarge.
3488

[jessunlil]

I think I've worn out my photo manipulation software, it's stopped working.
So, I can't post a side by side here but found Diane Marie Kennedy interesting. There are discrepencies (like height being off by several inches) but I see a resemblence in the face.

http://www.nampn.org/cases/kennedy_diane.html

[MadeaBecBec]

Madea, this Jane Doe had never given birth. She was also 5'8" tall, and weighed 240lbs.
:eek: I apologize, I haven't seen that info in my searches, could you, please,please give me a better link to peruse? TIA!!:waitasec:

Re: Differences in Janes weight, Ms. Sollie could've gained alot of weight during pregnancy also and was not able to lose it. IDK, just a theory! Re: Janes height, Ms. Sollie is listed as 5'5", not a great discrepancy, IMO!!

I was mainly looking at their facial similarities!

[MadeaBecBec]

I think I've worn out my photo manipulation software, it's stopped working.
So, I can't post a side by side here but found Diane Marie Kennedy interesting. There are discrepencies (like height being off by several inches) but I see a resemblence in the face.

http://www.nampn.org/cases/kennedy_diane.html

I wonder how accurate Ms. Kennedys missing date is? Jane was found on 10-11-1996, Ms. Kennedys reported last seen date is 12-31-96??? I wonder where she would be traveling on New Years Eve????

[MadeaBecBec]

http://www.doenetwork.org/media/news124.html

Justthinkin: Is the above link where you read? About no birth?

She was about 5 foot 7 and approximately 240 pounds. She had short, brownish hair and brown eyes. She was likely between age 33 and 45. She had never borne children.

Ms. Sollie could've lost the child (another reason for depression)before she disappeared or shortly after or if baby was premature, could produce no signs of having give birth!!

BTW!! Thanks defender123!! I clicked on the link at doenetwork, but couldn't get it to come up!!
I am going to go peruse some newspaper archives now!!

[jessunlil]

I wonder how accurate Ms. Kennedys missing date is? Jane was found on 10-11-1996, Ms. Kennedys reported last seen date is 12-31-96??? I wonder where she would be traveling on New Years Eve????

I know there can be inaccuracies and mistakes in the information provided so despite the inconsistencies I thought I'd post her, just in case.

I've since found sites that state Ms. Kennedy's eyes are blue, not brown as stated in my previous link. That's one more strike against her being this particular Jane Doe.

[jessunlil]

Ok, got my photo software working and was able to do a side by side with Diane Marie Kennedy, so you can get a better idea of why I suggested her despite the inconsistencies.

3495

[Julessleuther]

I do not think this is Sandra Sollie, but that is JMO, and I will tell you why:

She lived in the town right next to the one I grew up in, and I in fact lived there when she went missing. I know several people who either knew her or knew of her. She actually went missing within a few days of a little girl from Rochester who also went missing; the little girls father used to work with Sandra Sollie. There was "talk" that Sandra may have been involved in Kayleighs disappearance. Later, it was found that Sandra was not involved; a sex offender neighbor had taken the little girl (Kayleigh Ann Poultin) and killed her, but they did not find her body for two yrs.

I do not believe it says so on Doe, but the local news at the time Sandra went missing, felt that there was foul play with her disappearance, and perhaps even the father of the baby was involved, who, if I remember correctly, was married to someone else at that time. The Mary Anderson Doe seems older than Sandra, and one of the articles states that it appeared that she had not given birth--Dr's would know if she had been at all pregnant, and Sandra was 8-9 monthes at the time of her disappearance (her family had just had a baby shower for her). Sandra was quite a bit thinner than Mary Anderson too. Lastly, the town Sandra lived in was not an affluent place, and the house she lived was even in a lower class area. I do not think she had the money to afford the expensive clothes, gloves etc. that Mary Anderson had--she just did not have that kind of money, she lived a meager life, from what I understand. Again, this is JMO, but I really do not think this is Sandra. How about this missing lady, when I saw her photo, I almost fell over!!
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/488dfny.html


Ms. Sollie was also 7 months pregnant when she went missing!! What if Ms. Sollie travelled somewhere to give birth to her child (which would've been around July or August 1994) and hand the baby over for adoption, went to Seattle perhaps, then suffered from depression, checked into a hospital or something for awhile, tried to get her life in order and then.......

Here's the side by sides-Jane is in the middle!!

[Julessleuther]

Ms. Kennedy weighed considerably less than Mary Anderson, and went missing after Mary Anderson was found. JMO

I know there can be inaccuracies and mistakes in the information provided so despite the inconsistencies I thought I'd post her, just in case.

I've since found sites that state Ms. Kennedy's eyes are blue, not brown as stated in my previous link. That's one more strike against her being this particular Jane Doe.

[Julessleuther]

I am wondering if the dark circles on her face had anything to do with the cyanide poisoning. While researching this type of poisoning, I found that victims will often have very red or pink faces because the oxygen will stay in the blood and not get into the cells.

Apparently, cyanide is found in rat poison, so may be fairly easy to get? Also, people who work in photography, metallugy, electroplating, amd artifical nail removers would have access to cyanide, or someone who worked in a plastics factory would have access to cyanide. I am wondering, did LE find a container that the cyanide was in, or was the cyanide placed in the metamucel at an earlier time?

I have sent an email to the author of one of the articles about Mary, asking him to come here and give some insight. I also asked him if he knew how to get hold of Mr. Webster, the original investigator. I have not heard back from him yet....

[jessunlil]

Ms. Kennedy weighed considerably less than Mary Anderson, and went missing after Mary Anderson was found. JMO

You're absolutely right on those points.
Ms. Kennedy is too short, weighs less, has blue eyes and went missing after "Mary Anderson". Despite the similarities I saw in the side by side, I truly don't feel she's a viable match anymore.

[Julessleuther]

You did great putting a suggestion out there though, thank you! That is what is great about this board. We can post a viable lead and then get others imput to see if it could be a possibility. Keep trying!

You're absolutely right on those points.
Ms. Kennedy is too short, weighs less, has blue eyes and went missing after "Mary Anderson". Despite the similarities I saw in the side by side, I truly don't feel she's a viable match anymore.

[MadeaBecBec]

I am wondering if the dark circles on her face had anything to do with the cyanide poisoning. While researching this type of poisoning, I found that victims will often have very red or pink faces because the oxygen will stay in the blood and not get into the cells.

Apparently, cyanide is found in rat poison, so may be fairly easy to get? Also, people who work in photography, metallugy, electroplating, amd artifical nail removers would have access to cyanide, or someone who worked in a plastics factory would have access to cyanide. I am wondering, did LE find a container that the cyanide was in, or was the cyanide placed in the metamucel at an earlier time?

I have sent an email to the author of one of the articles about Mary, asking him to come here and give some insight. I also asked him if he knew how to get hold of Mr. Webster, the original investigator. I have not heard back from him yet....


Nail removers, Jane had neatly painted fingernails, I wonder if Jane had been a nail technician??? Also, jewlery makers, have access to cyanide, Jane could've been a jeweler??? I couldn't find where these possibilities were explored, but, am still searching old newspapers.....
Jane had done away with the dental plate (probably knowing these were traceable) she wore and her upper teeth were crooked.

Suicide by cyanide is historically the choice of many that are serious about it, alot of famous people have used it. Most lapse into a coma immediately and do not feel any pain, unless they're rescued... I asked a pathologist friend of mine and she said that the skin tone of someone that took cyanide, looks almost like a sunburn, the features of the face would just be enhanced, she also said that she would never say that a woman "absolutely" had "never" given birth, especially a woman that used a intrauterine device as a contraceptive, because iuds will cause scar tissue in the uterus. She also said that heavier womens pelvic rings are stressed anyway, so it wouldn't be advisable to say "never", she would say it's a "possiblity" that a woman had not given birth (if the womans iliac crest were not stretched) It's all above my head, so I've told it, just like she said it to me....

Re: Ms. Sollie (Cervone) also seems to have those Greek characteristics that Jane has (IMO) and Ms. Sollie disappeared two years prior! Living away from loved ones, can take a toll on the body and the mind. I, also read where the LE was suspicious of Ms. Sollies involvement in the childs disappearance, but then proved that theory as rumors!

I do believe, like several of you all, that this case requires looking outside the proverbial box!! So, I sent an email to the Chief ME at King County, asking if the last digit in the phone number (9) was dropped and the first 9 numbers 212-569-554, investigated as a SS number, I also am thinking SS #s were still used as drivers license #s in 1996, it would be an easy enough rule out by the DL photo, if Jane had a DL???

Back to my perusing old newspaper articles!!

[Julessleuther]

Sandra was italian, and had a scar on her upper lip. Her ex-husband was the father of her baby, and her purse and wallet were later found in Rochester. LE feels she was killed. Some info on Sandra:

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/167028/missing_pieces_radio_transcript_richard.html?cat=1 7

http://www.projectjason.org/forums/index.php?topic=479.5;wap2

Here are some links to her case:
Nail removers, Jane had neatly painted fingernails, I wonder if Jane had been a nail technician??? Also, jewlery makers, have access to cyanide, Jane could've been a jeweler??? I couldn't find where these possibilities were explored, but, am still searching old newspapers.....
Jane had done away with the dental plate (probably knowing these were traceable) she wore and her upper teeth were crooked.

Suicide by cyanide is historically the choice of many that are serious about it, alot of famous people have used it. Most lapse into a coma immediately and do not feel any pain, unless they're rescued... I asked a pathologist friend of mine and she said that the skin tone of someone that took cyanide, looks almost like a sunburn, the features of the face would just be enhanced, she also said that she would never say that a woman "absolutely" had "never" given birth, especially a woman that used a intrauterine device as a contraceptive, because iuds will cause scar tissue in the uterus. She also said that heavier womens pelvic rings are stressed anyway, so it wouldn't be advisable to say "never", she would say it's a "possiblity" that a woman had not given birth (if the womans iliac crest were not stretched) It's all above my head, so I've told it, just like she said it to me....

Re: Ms. Sollie (Cervone) also seems to have those Greek characteristics that Jane has (IMO) and Ms. Sollie disappeared two years prior! Living away from loved ones, can take a toll on the body and the mind. I, also read where the LE was suspicious of Ms. Sollies involvement in the childs disappearance, but then proved that theory as rumors!

I do believe, like several of you all, that this case requires looking outside the proverbial box!! So, I sent an email to the Chief ME at King County, asking if the last digit in the phone number (9) was dropped and the first 9 numbers 212-569-554, investigated as a SS number, I also am thinking SS #s were still used as drivers license #s in 1996, it would be an easy enough rule out by the DL photo, if Jane had a DL???

Back to my perusing old newspaper articles!!

[jessunlil]

This woman went missing a few yrs prior, and there is not info on breast surgery, but the composite at the bottom is a dead ringer!

Elizabeth Mary Allen

http://www.theyaremissed.org/ncma/gallery/ncmaprofile_all.php?A200604918S

I do not know how to do side by sides, but the images are very close, and her middle name is Mary!


Here's a side by side of the two.
3502

[justthinkin]

The JD here has never given birth IIRC so E. Mary Allen would not be a match.

It's an interesting case. I wonder if JD couldn't be the daughter of the actress Mary Anderson and her dec'd. husband, Leonard or Leon Shamroy. I couldn't find any photos of the actress Mary Allen later than prob. the early 1950s. Here's a side by side of all three. Maybe JD was given up for adoption.


Anyone see a resemblance?

[MadeaBecBec]

http://www.hrc.utexas.edu/exhibitions/web/gwtw/wardrobe/makeup/mustills/images/bbanderson.jpg
http://images.google.com/url?source=imgres&ct=img&q=http://www.filmbug.com/images/people/77718.jpg&usg=AFQjCNFbfiDPNPVbkSV5ZMiNBBb4PSy-5g
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/3/39/CatherinePeytonPPep2.JPG/210px-CatherinePeytonPPep2.JPG
I believe Jane watched soaps (as someone else already pointed out) and this was the first name that she thought of to put on the register and it could be that during her younger days (Janes), a friend or family member commented that they favored each other! BTW, Mary 'Bebe' Anderson is still living, she's 89!! I am sure she was probably questioned by MEI....

[justthinkin]

You're probably right, Madeabecbec, but it's also possible she put the girl up for adoption, and that was the end of it for her. Maybe a child hadn't been in her plans or her husband didn't want a child. Stuff happens that people aren't proud of, and want to keep secret. Hollywood is notorious for secrets, esp. back in that era.

It could be that JD learned she was adopted, and someone may have even told her she looked like Mary Anderson. If it's true, then someone somewhere would know the truth.

We should be 100% sure LE checked it out, not just guessing. If no one wants to call, I will. Just say the word.

[drbuzz0]

Hi -

I found this site after reading of this case. It's very strange.

Does anyone know if they ever gave the chemical composition of the cyanide? Cyanide is generally consumed as a cyanide salt, such as potassium cyanide, which is famous for being the type used by Adolf Hitler and some other note worthy persons to commit suicide. However, there are other compounds that could also be used - sodium cyanide, for example. Assuming there was even a tiny residue left, they should have been able to get a good analysis of exactly what it was chemically. Additionally, I'd be interested to see a report of the analysis and any impurities or trace elements found in the cyanide.


It occurs to me that there are a number of scientific tests that could tell a great deal about this woman, possibly revealing her identity.

Genetic testing: The obvious limitation here is that there's nothing to compare her to, but that's not necessarily the only thing that can be gained from genetic testing. For one thing, her ethnic heritage could likely be determined and there is even the possibility that it could be narrowed signifficantly. There are distinct genetic combination that are known to come from areas as narrow as southern Ireland or North Eastern France.

Mitochondrial DNA would also give the possibility of narrowing down relationships. It is inherited from the mother and there are a finite number of lineages. Over many generations it can change due to mutations, but these mutations occur at a predictable rate.

There are databases of DNA for criminals, military personal, missing persons etc. Obviously she would not be in any of these, but a close match could indicate a relative. Even a very partial match could indicate a distant relative or cousin. If, for example, a search found that of those who match closely, 75% had the same last name and came from the same region of the country, that would give at least a place to start as that likely indicates the family.


The second possibility: Isotopic analysis

Analysis of stable isotopes in human remains can determine the location where a person likely lived, their lifestyle, their diet and numerous other things. Isotopic fingerprints are extremely precise and vary depending on things like where a person gets the majority of their calories, the nature of the water they usually drink and other things.

Analysis of hair oxygen and hydrogen isotopes (only a two of the numerous elements that can be analyzed) can determine the area a person came from by the composition of the local water:

http://www.physorg.com/news123180241.html

http://dundee.academia.edu/WolframMeierAugentein/Papers/85537/Forensic-stable-isotope-analysis-leads-to-identification-of-a-mutilated-murder-victim-

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16529892

Radioactive isotopes can potentially give a more acurate age. Between 1946 and 1962, the US and Soviet Union tested numerous nuclear weapons in the earth's atmosphere. Someone who was a young child in the late 1950's would be expected to have higher than average amounts of certain isotopes in their teeth and bones. This was the peak of testing. From then the numbers dropped as the fallout settled out of the atmosphere.

Trace element analysis can also reveal things: Did she grow up somewhere that flouridated the drinking water? Did she eat very much sea food?

Another question Wasn't there any detectable residue on her? in her? (lungs, nasal passages) or on her clothing? her baggage? It's hard to imagine there wasn't any soil, any dust, any material from the local enviornment she came from. If so, what was it? What was any soil or geological dust? If so, what was it? Silica? Alumina? Was there any barium?



Finally, I had some observations.

I find the manner she wrote the note in interesting:

"To whom it may concern: I have decided to end my life and no one is responsible for my death. Mary Anderson.

"P.S. I have no relatives. You can use my body as you choose."


Why "Use my body?" I'd think that the natural thing to say is "Dispose of my body" or even "Do with my body as you choose"

I don't think the average person would normally think of the fact that human bodies have uses. They do, of course. They are used as cadavers for medical schools or other training. They may be used to harvest tissue from or something like that. She seems to have thought of this right away. This leads me to think she likely had some kind of research or scientific job. That's supported by her access to chemicals. She may have worked at a university or something.

Also, I would bet she was not reported missing right away. I would bet she left her life as she left her body - neat and with all the lose ends tied up. She probably left her home very clean and tidy, bed made, everything locked up and affairs in order. She may have sent a letter of resignation to her employer and told her neighbors and anyone else she knew she was going to be away for some time or that she was moving. She may have even canceled all her subscriptions, prepaid her taxes for the year, told her doctor she did not want to be called when it was time for an annual appointment, stopped her mail and things like that. If she did, it would have been some time before anyone realized that it was odd that she was not around. She may have never even been reported missing. Just a lot of people who remember she said she was going away and strangely, that was the last they heard.

Of course, that's just an assumption.

[Julessleuther]

Dr Buzz, I like your observations. Thank you! I have never contacted LE about this case, and you seem to know much about cyanide etc, so feel free to contact them, and then please post what you find out. Thank you!

[rpipergirl]

I did some sleuthing on this case today and came up with some interesting findings. The address she gave is located in Brooklyn,NY. I searched it as just the st addy with nothing else and got that result. Also the phone number she gave comes back to 514 w 213th st. and the zip to Astoria Queens or Long Island City,Queens. All are within minutes of each other with Queens in the middle. Interesting the surname on the next door address was simalar to the name she gave at the hotel.

[carbuff]

<snip>
I would bet she left her life as she left her body - neat and with all the lose ends tied up. She probably left her home very clean and tidy, bed made, everything locked up and affairs in order. She may have sent a letter of resignation to her employer and told her neighbors and anyone else she knew she was going to be away for some time or that she was moving. She may have even canceled all her subscriptions, prepaid her taxes for the year, told her doctor she did not want to be called when it was time for an annual appointment, stopped her mail and things like that. If she did, it would have been some time before anyone realized that it was odd that she was not around. She may have never even been reported missing. Just a lot of people who remember she said she was going away and strangely, that was the last they heard.

Of course, that's just an assumption.

I agree with this assessment. She's so very methodical about everything.

Something about her clothing, appearance, etc. makes me think "well to do widow." Comfortable, well-cared-for, casual. I can picture her burying her husband, selling the house, closing the estate, telling neighbors she's moving somewhere to start over.

The extra clothing makes me think she did not impulsively decide to kill herself. I suspect she had been somewhere else -- perhaps had visited several locations with sentimental value -- before reaching the end. It makes me think Seattle is either the place that had the deepest emotional association for her, or else is a place where she had no associations at all.

I suspect she must have lived in, worked in, or visited frequently in New York City in order to recall valid addresses and phone numbers. Perhaps she grew up there and had returned to bury the last of her family -- mother, aunt, sister -- before deciding she didn't want to go on.

Maple leaf: fall in New York, New England, Canada.

None of this is very helpful as far as actual clues...

[Debbie Miller]

I googled Mary Anderson, and there was a soap opera character from Days of Our Lives by the name of Mary Anderson.

Looking more in depth of possible clues this woman has left behind. I too googled the name and found the info on Days of our lives.

Further digging shows the soap storylines are of hospital scenes- family doctors one of which worked in a mental hospital. The show depicts lives of middle and upperclass professionals in the midwestern town of Salem.

There are quite a few listings for this town name, Oregon is one location.

Mary Anderson did have a prescription bottle with the label torn off.

I am not sure if any of this could tie to her life or not. I am just noting it.

It seems this case is going to stretch to some "out of the box" ideas.

[Debbie Miller]

The ME's office believes it was breast reduction surgery.
Also "Mary Anderson" without makeup on is said to be in her thirty's, meaning the makeup made her look older than her years.

[Debbie Miller]

With her wish to not be id'd, it makes me wonder why did she attach a name to the note she left? Why not just leave it unsigned? The investigators noted there were hesitation marks in her signature, what was she thinking? The next question I ask is why "Mary Anderson" as an alias?

I researched the first and last name hoping it would provide some clues, maybe the first one does.

Mary- sea of bitterness, rebelliousness and wished for child. Also included was "love"

Anderson - the son of andrew, (manly). This one doesn't strike me, but the chosen first name does.

Also, did she choose the date of her death for a reason? Was it her birthday or of some importance to her?

I have looked thru missing reports from the day she was discovered thru March of 1990 and so far have found no good leads for this lady.

Also over a year and a half ago, I was told that a new sketch of her was being done on a voluntary basis by an artist, to disregard the present photos that are up of her, cause they don't do her justice. I haven't talked to the ME's office in over a year as per my notes and I see there is still no new pic available on a website for her. This I will inquire about in the coming week.

What if this lady was smaller in weight when she initially went missing, if it was a while before she was found? That is if she was reported missing at all.

[Billylee]

Crystal Light?

Doesn't that seem like an odd thing to be found with? Was that something she was going to put the poison in instead of the Metamucil? (I know my end it all beverage would be something more like 100 proof! lol) I found this Wiki description interesting:


Crystal Light is the name of a sugar-free beverage (initially sold as a water soluble beverage powder). It comes in many different flavors, and is made by Kraft Foods.

Originally marketed in 1982 with Linda Evans as its spokesperson, the company later had stars Raquel Welch and Priscilla Presley as spokeswomen. The catch phrase for each of the ads was, "I believe in Crystal Light, because I believe in me!"

[Billylee]

I wanted to add another possibility that Ms. Sollie could be this Jane, regarding the kitchen bowl, Ms. Sollies little dog (a poodle) went missing with her, maybe that was the point for having kept a bowl in the room. Jane may have needed a bowl for food and water for a pet! If the pet had just died, that could be a reason for depression and feeling hopeless! I know, I had a beloved pet pass away, just last March, and I still get teary eyed and miss him dearly! I have wonderful children and the sweetest grands, though, to keep me busy and laughing....:blowkiss:
So, even if Ms. Sollie is ruled out, the bowl being for a pet, should still be considered.
I am going to go ahead and email this info to Ms. Sollies investigator, it couldn't hurt, right? It may also help in getting both cases back in the light!

BBM

I couldn't figure out the bowl! That makes great sense! I even keep one under the driver's seat for mom's little dog when we travel together, and I forgot!! Good observation!

Reading over and over this, I keep trying to figure out how they for sure know it was a suicide? They don't know her handwriting, what if she was meeting someone secretly there (like an affair?) and met her demise at the hand of someone else? I mean, if you 're going to do yourself in, would you carry that much clothing for a two day stay? And, why stay two days anyway? Suicide notes are known to be forged, so why couldn't this be a murder? Also, the note is strange: P.S. I have no relatives? that's bizarre! Why state the obvious? And why as a PS? I dunno, but this seems really fishy to me! Which also would explain the terminology "use" my body. Perhaps whomever wrote it had been doing exactly that? Just wonderin!

[Debbie Miller]

BBM

I couldn't figure out the bowl! That makes great sense! I even keep one under the driver's seat for mom's little dog when we travel together, and I forgot!! Good observation!

Reading over and over this, I keep trying to figure out how they for sure know it was a suicide? They don't know her handwriting, what if she was meeting someone secretly there (like an affair?) and met her demise at the hand of someone else? I mean, if you 're going to do yourself in, would you carry that much clothing for a two day stay? And, why stay two days anyway? Suicide notes are known to be forged, so why couldn't this be a murder? Also, the note is strange: P.S. I have no relatives? that's bizarre! Why state the obvious? And why as a PS? I dunno, but this seems really fishy to me! Which also would explain the terminology "use" my body. Perhaps whomever wrote it had been doing exactly that? Just wonderin!

Could also explain why she seems never reported missing.

[Debbie Miller]

If her identity could be found, further info may be able to be uncovered.

[Mensch]

Crystal Light?

Doesn't that seem like an odd thing to be found with? Was that something she was going to put the poison in instead of the Metamucil? (I know my end it all beverage would be something more like 100 proof! lol) I found this Wiki description interesting:


Crystal Light is the name of a sugar-free beverage (initially sold as a water soluble beverage powder). It comes in many different flavors, and is made by Kraft Foods.

Originally marketed in 1982 with Linda Evans as its spokesperson, the company later had stars Raquel Welch and Priscilla Presley as spokeswomen. The catch phrase for each of the ads was, "I believe in Crystal Light, because I believe in me!"
So many interesting ideas and observations here. As to the Crystal Light, I have a friend who used that powder mix (sometimes the product Tang)for his Metamusil. He said it makes the Metamusil a lot easier going down.

[Billylee]

I searched and did not find any other posts for her. This one seems so solveable, there are so many details given in the description!

http://meyahna.tripod.com/pg17.html


http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/159ufwa.html


The first link doesn't work for me. ?

[Billylee]

Rpipergirl, some of her belongings do seem odd, especially the bowl and iron that you mentioned. Bringing the iron may have been an old habit as she seemed like she'd been well-groomed throughout her life, but her outfits were velour and does that fabric even require ironing? Unless the iron was for the black top and leggings she died wearing...

The bowl is strange. I wonder if it had sentimental value or was especially valuable and she knew her belongings back at home would eventually be discarded when she failed to return, so she brought it with her. You think she'd give it to a close friend if she truly had no family rather than let it sit in a police evidence room, though.

BBM

This may be waaay out there, but IF this person really wanted to commit suicide (which I'm wondering, because of all the extra "baggage" she brought along) maybe she brought an iron to plug in the wall and bring into the tub with her? (Just noting another possibility)

[Julessleuther]

It does appear that the first link is invalid now, I will take it down. That is a shame, as there is so little info already about her...

To make matters worse, there is a current court case in Seattle where the plaintiff is "named" Jane Doe for privacy, so other links are hard to find about this lady... This link from Doe is still valid: http://www.seattlepi.com/dayart/pdf/20030224unidentifieddead.pdf

[carbuff]

So many interesting ideas and observations here. As to the Crystal Light, I have a friend who used that powder mix (sometimes the product Tang)for his Metamusil. He said it makes the Metamusil a lot easier going down.

I was going to mention the same thing.

Also, I remember that some women trying to diet used to carry packets of Crystal Light with them so they could have it with restaurant meals or at work, since it wasn't commonly available in vending machines or as a fountain drink. It was very easy to just empty a packet into a glass of water.

Women who travel a lot often carry an iron with them so they can keep their clothes neatly pressed -- they don't want to look like they're "living out of suitcases." It's one of the things that makes me think she might have been traveling for at least a few days before she arrived at this place.

[Billylee]

Didn't it say the clothes were like sweatpants or something? Those don't need ironing. I'll go back an check, maybe I read it wrong.

[Julessleuther]

Yes, velour pant set is like the Juicy Couture sweat suit sets that were popular a few years ago. No ironing required...

[Julessleuther]

The address that she gave as registration actually has a zip code of 11102, not 3. Also, there does not appear to be a 132 3rd Avenue in this area. There are 31st Avenues, 30th Avenues etc. There is, in fact, a St. Micheals cemetary that is near 31st Avenue. It is an episcopal cemetary. Perhaps, as someone mentioned above, she recently lost someone who was buried there, and then traveled to Seattle to kill herself.

I did a reverse lookup on the telephone number and it is an unlisted number located at lat: 40.8631 long: -73.9263 it appears to be in the Bronx

[Billylee]

http://www.wahmee.com/misc_kcmeo.pdf

The above story says there was a young man in his 20's who hung himself 12 years earlier at nearby Carkeek Park on the exact same date that this JD took her own life, October 9. The link below has his info and a drawing of him. His features look similar to hers to me. I wonder if it could have been her son? If the ages are right and she was in her between 40 & 50 in 1996, and he was in his 20's in 1984, then the years could be right for that relationship. If she was say 49 in 1996, she would have been born in 1947 , and if the John Doe was 20 in 1984, she would have been 17 at the time of birth. I just find it a real interesting fact that there was a UID suicide on the exact same date in the same area. Just thinking also that if the ages are on the other end of the scale, say she was really closer to 39 and he was closer to 29 at their times of death, then she would have been born in 57 and he in 1955 or thereabouts and they could have been siblings. It also said in the one story that he had olive skin, like Greek or Italian? like they think she is? Does anyone know if the dna's were ever compared?

I wonder if that could explain the maple leaves in the book she left behind. Was it a maple tree this young man hung himself on? Did she walk over to the park to say goodbye (or hello) is that why she had the gloves?
Just wondering if they ever checked dna on these two?

Seattle, Oct. 9, 1984
Case number: 84-1138
A suicide victim found hanging
in a tree off a trail in Carkeek
Park. In his 20s, he had long sideburns
and wore jeans, Pro Wing
sneakers and a black leather jacket
with a fur-like collar. He also wore a pullover
velour gray or purple shirt with reddish stripes. He
stood 5-foot-11 and weighed 160 to 180 pounds.



http://www.seattlepi.com/dayart/pdf/20030224unidentifieddead.pdf

[Billylee]

Just to let ya'll know I wrote to the KCME and asked if the two October 9th suicide does have been checked for being related by dna. Will let you know if I hear anything back.

[websurfer]

Her psydomym was "Mary Anderson/Andrews" depending on which article you read. She killed herself in a fancy hotel called Hotel Vintage Park in Seatle,WA.
Doe network info: Estimated age: 33 - 45 years old
Approximate Height and Weight: 5'8"; 240 lbs.
Distinguishing Characteristics: Reddish-brown hair and brown eyes. She used a copper intrauterine device. She had some sort of breast surgery at some point. It had produced scars beneath both breast and around the nipple area. Her hair was combed, her nails were painted cream white and she wore make-up.
Dentals: Dental plate
Clothing: She wore black leggings and a black top.
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/159ufwa.html

This is a case my mom Sadnews on here has been working on,so, I thought I'd add her to see what ideas we could come up with if we all put our heads together.
:waitasec:
I wondered had she left years before?
gained weight since leaving her family area?Home area? town/city?
She sounds like she may have suffrered from depression too..DAH:angel:
she seems to me like a woman who
was once in a family unit , but from depression
had moved on for one reason or another.
Also most alias' are a reverse or a combination of real initials..
but of course some are way not....
This woman [ I looked for her on THE CHARLEY PROJECT and on DOE}
I searched depression etc...
some women came up also i searched cancer thinking[ perhaps the breast scars ]were from previous cancer op?

Her mode of outfit/dressing implies she may have at one time been in a prominate position?
She seemed even in her dire depression and suicide mode able to make herself clean and well dressed?
I also was wondering if she had lost weight?
either gained or lost..
dyed her hair
cut her hair?
somehow she managed to disguise her appearance so much so that even now nobody knows who she was...
I will be hoping that whomever she belongs to, will report her missing soon...

[Debbie Miller]

:waitasec:
I wondered had she left years before?
gained weight since leaving her family area?Home area? town/city?
She sounds like she may have suffrered from depression too..DAH:angel:
she seems to me like a woman who
was once in a family unit , but from depression
had moved on for one reason or another.
Also most alias' are a reverse or a combination of real initials..
but of course some are way not....
This woman [ I looked for her on THE CHARLEY PROJECT and on DOE}
I searched depression etc...
some women came up also i searched cancer thinking[ perhaps the breast scars ]were from previous cancer op?

Her mode of outfit/dressing implies she may have at one time been in a prominate position?
She seemed even in her dire depression and suicide mode able to make herself clean and well dressed?
I also was wondering if she had lost weight?
either gained or lost..
dyed her hair
cut her hair?
somehow she managed to disguise her appearance so much so that even now nobody knows who she was...
I will be hoping that whomever she belongs to, will report her missing soon...

When I spoke to the ME's office in King County, I was told that her hair color was natural, they also believe that she has ties or was from the east coast being that she gave a NY address. I have searched high and low for this woman as a missing person and can't find anyone to fit her description.

I have also thought of the fact she left her life years before this happened.

If she didn't want to be identified, then why did she sign a name in the first place?

[hyldo]

The article mentions the IUD's serial number was partially missing.

I feel like she had to have some familiarity with New York. It's one thing to use the 212-area code and that street address as they are familiar even to people outside of NY but the Astoria (Queens) zip code I feel would only be known by someone familiar with the area or who had family or friends, etc. in that area.


I disagree. To me, the address and phone number that she gave either shows an unfamiliarity with NYC, or it was another attempt to deliberately mislead.

The address that she gave was "132 East Third Street, New York, NY", however she used a Queens ZIP code (11102 or 11103, based on two different reports). Queens addresses do not use "New York, NY" as the city/state, they typically use the neighborhood and state such as "Astoria, NY; Long Island City, NY; Corona, NY, etc. Also, Queens addresses are typically written with a dash, where the first number represents a cross street and the second number is the house number. For example, 26-12 3rd Street would be located on 3rd Street between 26th and 27th Avenues, and it would be building number 12 on that street.

Finally, she gave a telephone number with a 212 area code. At that time, all outerborough phone numbers had a 718 area code; 212 was reserved for Manhattan.

[Julessleuther]

I think she is very familiar with that area. When I google earthed the 132 3rd Avenue, Manhattan was straight across as the natural progression of that area, so she very well could be from Manhattan. Further, based on the items found with her, she could have been from a prominent family who already knows what happened to her and does not want to come forward. Or, another scenario is that the area code given for Queens is an ethnic area (Eastern European, I believe) and perhaps maybe her family is foreign and thought she went back to Europe?


O/T: The city I grew up in had a homeless woman who used to ransack peoples trashcans. After she died, the LE found out that she was the daughter of one of the most prominent families, but they never claimed her. She was bi-polar and considered an embarrassment to the family. When it came out in the media, they finally claimed her.

It would be cool if they could do the DNA testing that Benjaman Kyle had done, to pinpoint her family tree.

[Storm24]

One thing I wondered about in this case was, "Where did the victim come from before checking into the hotel?" I noticed that there was something like less than an hour difference between when she made the reservation and her arrival by cab which suggests she was not from the immediate area. There is a ferry terminal (with daily service between Seattle and Vancouver B.C.) about 2 miles away and its not uncommon for taxis to be called to that area for pick-ups... So that might support the idea she came from Canada. On the other hand, if she arrived by SeaTac airport, her taxi ride could have easily been an hour... Additionally, in the baggage claim area of the airport, there is a large phone kiosk with direct connections to the area hotels - including the Vintage Park Hotel? There are also several ATM's in that baggage area where she could have withdrawn cash for the taxi ride and hotel stay.

But why that specific hotel? It is neither the largest, most luxurious or even most affordable. There are several other hotels within a 3 mile radius that could have just as easily been chosen. Maybe it was the quaint charm of the hotel that helped the decision? Maybe it was chosen not for its amenities but for its proximity to another landmark within the city of Seattle? Directly across the street from this hotel is the U.S. Federal District Courthouse property - landscaped with 4-5 very large Maple trees. During warmer months, it is not unusual for large numbers of office workers to use the adjoining lawn for a quick lunch or smoke break. The material we have indicates that the weather was unseasonably warm when "Mary Anderson" checked into the hotel and that the investigators found a maple leaf in her room pressed between the pages of the "Seattle Weekly"... a local paper found in amongst the newspaper vending machines in front of the same courthouse. So we can at least casually link her to the approximate area...

A couple other thoughts: Many folks have commented on the style, type, and volume of clothes she had hanging in her closet.... I'd suggest that these weren't "travelling clothes" but rather clothes appropriate for a public forum... She had a heavier blue coat and gloves - not something a local would packed given the warmer weather. Why so many if she only had paid for a couple night's stay? And why did she have an iron? The fabric of her clothes isn't the type to be ironed - dry cleaned more likely.

Here's my amateur theory: Mary Anderson was in Seattle to see someone who was going to be in Federal Court for a trial. She had brought along several different outfits that could be worn interchangeable (all "jewel" colors?) because she didn't know exactly how long it would last. The iron was for the clothes not in the room: A dress shirt and suit pants perhaps for a male defendant? Prisoners often rely upon their families (through their attorneys) to drop off "court clothes" to make themselves more presentable during a trial. Making sure that such clothes were neatly pressed seems to fit in with the other aspects of the orderly nature surrounding "Mary." Having such a male in her life would also fit into the findings of the worn IUD?

I wonder about the lack of identification and the lies she wrote during check-in regarding her residence. Positive ID wasn't required for either airline or ferry travel in those days but still there should have been something? Here's another (kinda) far-fetched theory: Mary was very careful about her ID because she didn't want anyone (particularly people in a courtroom - like Federal agents) to know her identity if she was stopped outside the court.... Perhaps she (mistakenly thought) she was also wanted or would be questioned? It is also a particularily common concern and tactic for suspects/groups who see the federal government as overly intrusive or controlling (Freemen, Posse Comitatus, etc). If memory serves me correctly, there were several of those types of cases being processed through that specific courthouse during the same time period. Immigration case? Border smuggling? Those are relatively common for the court, too.

Assuming she brought the poison with her, it seems reasonable that her death had been planned for some time... Can any significance be placed on the exact day/time of her suicide? Following along with the above theory, was a conviction a near certain and it ended after only the second day? The only way I think that would be possible is if the defendant decided to plead guilty on the first day (not uncommon - particularly when prosecutors offer a "last chance to plea" in exchange for a lighter sentence). Or maybe Mary knew someone who was to be sentence and she wanted to see him for one last time before he went away? That would still fit for the iron/clothes part of the theory... Did she then kill herself because she didn't want to live alone without him? Was this a case of falling in love with the "wrong guy" and that's why she wrote that it wasn't anybody's fault... that "it" (the way things had turned out) was her own fault?

Okay - that's enough speculation from this amateur! :)

[Debbie Miller]

On your courthouse theory-- could she have been a witness?

[Storm24]

I think so.... She brought along several sets of clothes because she didn't know when she might be called to testify (against a loved one?)? Would have given her reason to be hanging around the courthouse area, reading newspapers and collecting maple leaves. Might also tie in with the theme of "fault" from the suicide note since a courtroom or trial is where "fault" is determined?

The idea of ironing a man's clothes could still tie in if she were a witness for the defendant, too. I wonder if I could get access to the court calendar's for the two or three days? Couldn't be more than three or four trials going on over that time period... She could have been there to testify at a sentencing, too - I would guess the court calendar could fit maybe a dozen of those in during those two days. Long-shot to be sure but manageable. Getting names of witness who testified might be a bit more arduous, but should be able to eliminate a lot of them by their profession, connection to the case, etc...

Appreciate the thoughts, Debbie!

[kaylenbabysims]

Storm24! Welcome to Websleuths!!! I do not have much to add! I just wanted to say THANK YOU for joining and sharing! Those are definately some good ideas you have going on there! :dance:

[Debbie Miller]

Storm24,

I am also wondering if there is a way to get ahold of the local papers in that area for the time span she was there and a little before or after that time. There may be headlines that could mean or point to a clue.

I am not sure if the police or ME's office still have the paper that the leaves were in.

[Jubble]

What about this Mary Anderson missing since 1982:
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/a/andersen_mary.html

She would have been 37 when our Mary Anderson committed suicide. The height is off, but there is such a wide range on Mary from 1982 that I wonder if who ever filed the report did not know her height so just guessed at it. It seems like she was estranged from her family for a long time.

[Debbie Miller]

What about this Mary Anderson missing since 1982:
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/a/andersen_mary.html

She would have been 37 when our Mary Anderson committed suicide. The height is off, but there is such a wide range on Mary from 1982 that I wonder if who ever filed the report did not know her height so just guessed at it. It seems like she was estranged from her family for a long time.

This was already turned into the ME, not sure of the findings with this.

Thanks for looking!

[carbuff]

Another thought about why she left a false ID: She might have wanted to avoid the press (whether from fear or from legitimate concern).

Also, if she were testifying against someone, she might have been afraid of them or their associates.

[Danaya]

My suggestion is someone comb through Vancouver's missing people as there is a ferry terminal.

[Storm24]

Carbuff... Maybe but I think it unlikely. Neither the press nor "associates" could have forced her to produce identification - law enforcement could.

Danaya... did a cursory check once before but I'm going to go back and try something a bit more thorough.

Regarding the kitchen bowl: Has anyone seen a description of it reported or maybe a picture? Big, small? Decorative, plain? New, used?

Regarding the prescription pill bottle: Any evidence it was used to transport the poison? Any residue found on the inside?

[carbuff]

Carbuff... Maybe but I think it unlikely. Neither the press nor "associates" could have forced her to produce identification - law enforcement could.

Danaya... did a cursory check once before but I'm going to go back and try something a bit more thorough.

Regarding the kitchen bowl: Has anyone seen a description of it reported or maybe a picture? Big, small? Decorative, plain? New, used?

Regarding the prescription pill bottle: Any evidence it was used to transport the poison? Any residue found on the inside?

I meant that she registered and died under a false name so the press wouldn't connect her to her real persona. I don't think it's likely either; I think she just didn't want to be traced back to her family. But registering in a hotel under an assumed name used to be pretty common.

[Storm24]

Very true, Carbuff... My wife and I did while we were dating!

[Storm24]

Cyanide is found in many different forms and used in several different industries such as mining, jewelry, pesticides, etc. Has anyone seen any information as to which this Jane Doe may have ingested? Could it have been transported in the prescription pill bottle? Was there a drinking glass with cyanide & Crystal Light residue?

Also, does anyone have a picture or any details on the kitchen bowl that was found in the room?

Lastly, does anyone have access to the exact time line (from when she checked into the hotel until her body was discovered)?