Michelle Young, pregnant mom, murdered Part 17

[chicoliving]

Continue your discussion here.

[DEPUTYDAWG]

Thanks, Chico!!! Much appreciated.

Good morning all...will be back to check up on y'all a little later!
Have a great day,
DD

[Scout]

From the previous thread:

Of course not. But if other SWs exist, it means to me that police officers do have suspicions about others.

--Jake

You may be getting your hopes up for nothing, Jake. If there are other warrants, they could just as easily be related to Jason as to other potential suspects. There's always the chance that there are other warrants for persons or places that turned out to be complete dead ends -- person(s) investigated and ruled out.

[Nomimi]

From the previous thread:



You may be getting your hopes up for nothing, Jake. If there are other warrants, they could just as easily be related to Jason as to other potential suspects. There's always the chance that there are other warrants for persons or places that turned out to be complete dead ends -- person(s) investigated and ruled out.

Good Morning Scout! I know you've followed this case very close. Do you remember when Michelle had the medical abortion to remove the first baby boy? Wasn't there only a couple of weeks in between the 2 pregnancies? That in itself tells me that Jason was a selfish, inconsiderate creep. I've always wondered if Michelle went along with that or was forced into having sex with him. He seems the type that would threaten to get it elsewhere if she didn't comply.

[Anuniaq]

I went an read up on the case that Bellgardin reference yesterday, Christopher Porco. I thought it was interesting because of the similarities and the time line.

Long story short, the police knew who did it from the day after it happened (his mom, a victim, ID'd him) yet it took them a year and a day before he was indicted.

Very similar crime, claimed to be one place, but was actually driving to his parents house to brutally bludgeon them to death, he didn't quite finish the job on his mother then drove back to the place he claimed to be all along. The police were able to find surveillance of his car, DNA on a toll ticket, etc.

The police in this case could easily have video of JY's car or JY and it not be released and there wouldn't be a SW because most places with tape will just turn it over to police if asked.

An arrest is coming, they are just making sure the case is as airtight as possible before they start the speedy trial clock.

IMO

[Mama-cita]

I went an read up on the case that Bellgardin reference yesterday, Christopher Porco. I thought it was interesting because of the similarities and the time line.

Long story short, the police knew who did it from the day after it happened (his mom, a victim, ID'd him) yet it took them a year and a day before he was indicted.

Very similar crime, claimed to be one place, but was actually driving to his parents house to brutally bludgeon them to death, he didn't quite finish the job on his mother then drove back to the place he claimed to be all along. The police were able to find surveillance of his car, DNA on a toll ticket, etc.

The police in this case could easily have video of JY's car or JY and it not be released and there wouldn't be a SW because most places with tape will just turn it over to police if asked.

An arrest is coming, they are just making sure the case is as airtight as possible before they start the speedy trial clock.

IMO

GREAT POST! Thanks for the insights. I hope you are right about that last paragraph!

[Bellgardin]

From the previous thread:
You may be getting your hopes up for nothing, Jake. If there are other warrants, they could just as easily be related to Jason as to other potential suspects. There's always the chance that there are other warrants for persons or places that turned out to be complete dead ends -- person(s) investigated and ruled out.

I totally agree Scout! Just because other SW's exist doesn't mean they aren't focused on JY too. I just can't follow Jake's logic on this one.

[Bellgardin]

From the previous thread: I was asked a question, and I answered it. Look at my answer, not what you think I might have "meant". If you think everyone but Jason is off-limits in this case, so be it. Think what you want. It's my opinion the police officers are not thinking that way.

Jake, I did look at your answer. I know what theories were floated around, especially on other boards and I don't even want to go there. On the contrary, I think LE has followed many leads and is looking at everyone. It just seems to me that despite that, they aren't finding any leads that take them anywhere other than JY.

[Scout]

Good Morning Scout! I know you've followed this case very close. Do you remember when Michelle had the medical abortion to remove the first baby boy? Wasn't there only a couple of weeks in between the 2 pregnancies? That in itself tells me that Jason was a selfish, inconsiderate creep. I've always wondered if Michelle went along with that or was forced into having sex with him. He seems the type that would threaten to get it elsewhere if she didn't comply.

I don't have an exact date, but based on the gestational age of her more recent pregnancy, I would estimate the therapeutic abortion to have been done during the week of June 11-17. She would have conceived around the end of June to the beginning of July, with date of LMP (in this case, the abortion) being ~2 weeks earlier.

[Niner]

Thank you all for your replies! Still behind in reading... still reading Part #16 page 28... :crazy:

did we have an arrest yet??? Are you all going to have a "special" thread WHEN that happens for us slow people??? :waitasec: :cool:

[strach304]

Niner, you betcha! Big bold letters. I look for it almost everyday myself. Something like "breaking news, arrest" :woohoo:

[Niner]

Niner, you betcha! Big bold letters. I look for it almost everyday myself. Something like "breaking news, arrest" :woohoo:


COOL!! :dance:

[nanandjim]

COOL!! :dance:
Also, look for the number of viewers on this forum to skyrocket on the day that happens! I can't wait...Tick...Tock...

[The Saint]

Good Morning Scout! I know you've followed this case very close. Do you remember when Michelle had the medical abortion to remove the first baby boy? Wasn't there only a couple of weeks in between the 2 pregnancies? That in itself tells me that Jason was a selfish, inconsiderate creep. I've always wondered if Michelle went along with that or was forced into having sex with him. He seems the type that would threaten to get it elsewhere if she didn't comply.

or he could have just plain threatened her.

as Barney posted:

Like his close friend said .....
"He did what he wanted to do, when he wanted to do it."


imo

[The Saint]

people have posted links that show michelle and jason young owned 2 properties in Wake County (Birchleaf and Arete Way).

is it possible that they also own a vacation cabin or summer house somewhere in the Tri-State area? Or a time-share?

Do any of jay's friends own cabins or vacation homes anywhere?

Are there cabins along the lake fronts of Wheeler Lake or the lakes or mtns along the route to Hillsdale or Duffield that jay would have access to through friends or family?

Do his friends have any "bachelor pads" that the guys use to get away from their wives or to tryst with other women?

imo

[Nomimi]

people have posted links that show michelle and jason young owned 2 properties in Wake County (Birchleaf and Arete Way).

is it possible that they also own a vacation cabin or summer house somewhere in the Tri-State area? Or a time-share?

Do any of jay's friends own cabins or vacation homes anywhere?

Are there cabins along the lake fronts of Wheeler Lake or the lakes or mtns along the route to Hillsdale or Duffield that jay would have access to through friends or family?

Do his friends have any "bachelor pads" that the guys use to get away from their wives or to tryst with other women?

imo

From what I understand, he doesn't have many friends left..... They're all doubting him.

[jake]

From what I understand, he doesn't have many friends left..... They're all doubting him.

Nope. Not all.

I can't post much tonight but I'll catch up.

--Jake

[caffeinatd]

Nope. Not all.

I can't post much tonight but I'll catch up.

--Jake
Jake,
I am catching up tonight, after not having power for a few days, and was interested in 2 of your posts...one saying you think an arrest is far off, and then a few posts later, saying you think an arrest will be soon...do you have anything to back either of those posts? I am going back to look at them now...thanks...

[The Saint]

is he packing his bags?

[jake]

Jake,
I am catching up tonight, after not having power for a few days, and was interested in 2 of your posts...one saying you think an arrest is far off, and then a few posts later, saying you think an arrest will be soon...do you have anything to back either of those posts? I am going back to look at them now...thanks...

Maybe I said NOT far off? At least, that's the way I feel. I can't back either post. It's just an opinion based on pulling together several things I have heard in the last weeks. I wish I could be more specific.

--Jake

[caffeinatd]

Maybe I said NOT far off? At least, that's the way I feel. I can't back either post. It's just an opinion based on pulling together several things I have heard in the last weeks. I wish I could be more specific.

--Jake
Heard on boards or heard around Brevard/Young family? thanks

[The Saint]

Maybe I said NOT far off? At least, that's the way I feel. I can't back either post. It's just an opinion based on pulling together several things I have heard in the last weeks. I wish I could be more specific.

--Jake

jake,
did you (or someone you know or hired) have something to do with the Michelle Young threads dated feb 13th and earlier disappearing at CTV?

imo

[DEPUTYDAWG]

jake,
did you (or someone you know or hired) have something to do with the Michelle Young threads dated feb 13th and earlier disppearing at CTV?

imo

This is bizarre. Months of posts gone?

[raisincharlie]

This is bizarre. Months of posts gone?

Shame - that time period would include most of the insiders that actually knew something. Very odd...twilight zone.

[jake]

Heard on boards or heard around Brevard/Young family? thanks

Both. Nothing specific though.

--Jake

[The Saint]

This is bizarre. Months of posts gone?

yes. the missing threads included insider info.

[DEPUTYDAWG]

yes. the missing threads included insider info.

Well, kinda like this whole case - due to lack of info, all we can do is speculate as to why! :waitasec:

[raisincharlie]

Well, kinda like this whole case - due to lack of info, all we can do is speculate as to why! :waitasec:

I think it's a fluke...:p

[DEPUTYDAWG]

I think it's a fluke...:p

:p
fluke...that it may be!

[happy2bn10ec]

It's not about MY, but for anyone that wonders, like I did, if LE ever REALLY checks out the internet for leads:
http://www.wesh.com/news/12354903/detail.html

"When you start to hear on the Internet and in blogs and people wondering, even family members, whoever, they may be wondering, 'Why wasn't so-and-so questioned or why wasn't so-and-so polygraphed?' You want to do that if there's the slimmest chance," Rockefeller said.

[raisincharlie]

It's not about MY, but for anyone that wonders, like I did, if LE ever REALLY checks out the internet for leads:
http://www.wesh.com/news/12354903/detail.html

"When you start to hear on the Internet and in blogs and people wondering, even family members, whoever, they may be wondering, 'Why wasn't so-and-so questioned or why wasn't so-and-so polygraphed?' You want to do that if there's the slimmest chance," Rockefeller said.

Thanks Happy - appreciate it. Interesting article.;)

[DEPUTYDAWG]

It's not about MY, but for anyone that wonders, like I did, if LE ever REALLY checks out the internet for leads:
http://www.wesh.com/news/12354903/detail.html

"When you start to hear on the Internet and in blogs and people wondering, even family members, whoever, they may be wondering, 'Why wasn't so-and-so questioned or why wasn't so-and-so polygraphed?' You want to do that if there's the slimmest chance," Rockefeller said.

Thank you for the article. It confirms that they do. I don't know why many doubt that LE does that as just one more investigative tool in their arsenal. In this day and age, they'd be remiss, IMO, NOT to do so. You'd never believe what they've captured from such sites. JMHO :cool:

[Niner]

OJ Simpson
Robert Durst
Lizzie Borden

Not very good company, imo.

wonder if we will be adding Phil Spector to this list?? How about Robert Blake - but I always thought he was innocent... :cool:

[jake]

Hello, board. Anybody but me still wondering about the tooth found by a family member?

Despite the calm, "not very important" statement to the media, I heard something different. In a roundabout way I heard there was some shouting and angry voices in the police department the day the tooth was given to LE. I imagine some embarrassed voices, too, although I didn't hear that.

Since that one statement by the police, I have heard nothing further about the tooth. I wonder where it is now and wonder if it will be used as evidence in any way.

I hope the police have had the tooth tested for dna and know for sure whose tooth it is. If Jason should go to trial, I imagine his defense lawyer will have some questions about the tooth.

--Jake

[scandi]

Hi Jake, On RPD's writeup about the viewing of the autopsy photos, he stated the tooth fit into a socket and because of that they determined it was Michelle's tooth. I'd have to go pull the link to see exactly how he worded it but can't now. During the day I just sneak in and out as I am suppose to be hard at work! LOL Scandi

[Taximom]

Hello, board. Anybody but me still wondering about the tooth found by a family member?

Despite the calm, "not very important" statement to the media, I heard something different. In a roundabout way I heard there was some shouting and angry voices in the police department the day the tooth was given to LE. I imagine some embarrassed voices, too, although I didn't hear that.

Since that one statement by the police, I have heard nothing further about the tooth. I wonder where it is now and wonder if it will be used as evidence in any way.

I hope the police have had the tooth tested for dna and know for sure whose tooth it is. If Jason should go to trial, I imagine his defense lawyer will have some questions about the tooth.

--Jake

Jake, I thought I remembered reading that the tooth went with MY's body when she was buried. It's been a long time though and I can't remember the time-frame between when they found the tooth and when she was buried. I'm sure someone here will remember though.

[jake]

Jake, I thought I remembered reading that the tooth went with MY's body when she was buried. It's been a long time though and I can't remember the time-frame between when they found the tooth and when she was buried. I'm sure someone here will remember though.

The police said they would have buried the tooth with Michelle if they had had it at the time of burial.

--Jake

[jake]

Hi Jake, On RPD's writeup about the viewing of the autopsy photos, he stated the tooth fit into a socket and because of that they determined it was Michelle's tooth. I'd have to go pull the link to see exactly how he worded it but can't now. During the day I just sneak in and out as I am suppose to be hard at work! LOL Scandi

I don't think he said that. At any rate, Michelle was already buried when the tooth was found, so no socket was available.

Like you, relying on memory, I believe rpd said he saw three whole teeth in the photos. From that, I believe neither he nor the medical examiner realized any teeth were missing.

--Jake

[Taximom]

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=local&id=4811361

This article says:
"That tooth would have gone with the body to Chapel Hill for the autopsy and then it would have been buried with the body," Pennica says. "We would not have kept it as a piece of evidence," he continued.

:confused:

[caffeinatd]

Hammer/Mallet found by someone mowing the yard...LE looking at it possible link...neighbor on, wants to know something. LE contacted LF...she said she was glad someone came forward...that's my take on it...ETA...I think they said front yard on Easter Sunday....I drove through Easter saturday and noted the yard really needed to be mowed....

[Barney Fife]

I don't think he said that. At any rate, Michelle was already buried when the tooth was found, so no socket was available.

Like you, relying on memory, I believe rpd said he saw three whole teeth in the photos. From that, I believe neither he nor the medical examiner realized any teeth were missing.

--Jake

The ME knew exactly how many teeth were missing from Michelle's gums when the autopsy was performed. Another found at the scene later only magnifies the brutality of this beating.

If RS intends to use this 'tooth' in his defense argument, Jason has an extremely weak defense and he is cooked.

Sounds like good news to me. Thanks for bringing the tooth up again Jake.

[raisincharlie]

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=local&id=4811361

This article says:
"That tooth would have gone with the body to Chapel Hill for the autopsy and then it would have been buried with the body," Pennica says. "We would not have kept it as a piece of evidence," he continued.

:confused:

I believe we will find out the tooth was most likely identified through Michelle's dental xrays. As you know this method is used frequently, is known to be dependable, and also provides a rapid result.

[caffeinatd]

Hammer/Mallet found by someone mowing the yard...LE looking at it possible link...neighbor on, wants to know something. LE contacted LF...she said she was glad someone came forward...that's my take on it...ETA...I think they said front yard on Easter Sunday....I drove through Easter saturday and noted the yard really needed to be mowed....
Hate to quote my own post, but here is the link to the WTVD article
http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=triangle&id=5227026 (http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=triangle&id=5227026)

[raisincharlie]

Hate to quote my own post, but here is the link to the WTVD article
http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=triangle&id=5227026 (http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=triangle&id=5227026)

Thank you caffinated - appreciate the link. Seems like the neighbors are being very observant. Funny about the reference to a search warrant...;)

[jake]

The ME knew exactly how many teeth were missing from Michelle's gums when the autopsy was performed. Another found at the scene later only magnifies the brutality of this beating.

If RS intends to use this 'tooth' in his defense argument, Jason has an extremely weak defense and he is cooked.

Sounds like good news to me. Thanks for bringing the tooth up again Jake.

I like to think the ME knew how to do his job. Any opinion on why the ME didn't send the police looking for the missing tooth? Or why he said only 3 upper front teeth were missing?

--Jake

[caffeinatd]

Thank you caffinated - appreciate the link. Seems like the neighbors are being very observant. Funny about the reference to a search warrant...;)
Seems like a lot of "funny" things about this whole news...moo ;)

[jake]

The ME knew exactly how many teeth were missing from Michelle's gums when the autopsy was performed. Another found at the scene later only magnifies the brutality of this beating.

If RS intends to use this 'tooth' in his defense argument, Jason has an extremely weak defense and he is cooked.

Sounds like good news to me. Thanks for bringing the tooth up again Jake.

Don't know why you would think it would be a defense argument. Doesn't make sense to me.

However, it might make a jury wonder how thorough the police investigation was. Maybe create a doubt in some minds.

--Jake

[raisincharlie]

Seems like a lot of "funny" things about this whole news...moo ;)

There have been several tradesmen in and out of the home. You never know, could belong to one of them. What I find most interesting is it appears from this news that the killer did not leave the weapon inside the home.

[jake]

There have been several tradesmen in and out of the home. You never know, could belong to one of them. What I find most interesting is it appears from this news that the killer did not leave the weapon inside the home.

You may be right about the tradesmen. I know leaves were raked/mowed after November and the grass has been cut several times.

When I was there I searched the grounds pretty thoroughly for a possible murder weapon. I figured the cops knew who had killed Michelle and possibly would not search the grounds.

I especially looked through all the bushes and walked front and back yards. I even walked through the woods in back.

Of course, I could have missed it.

--Jake

[Barney Fife]

Don't know why you would think it would be a defense argument. Doesn't make sense to me.

However, it might make a jury wonder how thorough the police investigation was. Maybe create a doubt in some minds.

--Jake


Well I said that because you said this :

' If Jason should go to trial, I imagine his defense lawyer will have some questions about the tooth.'



-

[jake]

Well I said that because you said this :

' If Jason should go to trial, I imagine his defense lawyer will have some questions about the tooth.'



-

Exactly. Not as a defense argument but to sow doubt.

--Jake

[jake]

Well I said that because you said this :

' If Jason should go to trial, I imagine his defense lawyer will have some questions about the tooth.'



-

Probably some embarrassing questions. The obvious question would be: whose tooth is it?

--Jake

[raisincharlie]

Well I said that because you said this :

' If Jason should go to trial, I imagine his defense lawyer will have some questions about the tooth.'



-

I don't understand why anyone would obsess over this tooth if they really believed JY innocent. Seems to me more than anything they should be worried more about justice for Michelle being reached, rather than the potential for doubt. Just my take.:D

[raisincharlie]

You may be right about the tradesmen. I know leaves were raked/mowed after November and the grass has been cut several times.

When I was there I searched the grounds pretty thoroughly for a possible murder weapon. I figured the cops knew who had killed Michelle and possibly would not search the grounds.

I especially looked through all the bushes and walked front and back yards. I even walked through the woods in back.

Of course, I could have missed it.

--Jake


Better be careful Jake - someone will think you planted it.

[Kadie]

I don't understand why anyone would obsess over this tooth if they really believed JY innocent. Seems to me more than anything they should be worried more about justice for Michelle being reached, rather than the potential for doubt. Just my take.:D

I agree RC. First it was the "heirloom" jewelry now its the tooth.

Why the obsession?

[jake]

I don't understand why anyone would obsess over this tooth if they really believed JY innocent. Seems to me more than anything they should be worried more about justice for Michelle being reached, rather than the potential for doubt. Just my take.:D

Will there be justice for Michelle if her innocent husband is indicted? If the tooth should turn out to be evidence that will put the real killer away, I'd like to see LE obsess over it.

--Jake

[Barney Fife]

Better be careful Jake - someone will think you planted it.

Right. I am sure LE will want to interview someone that looked through all the bushes and walked front and back yards, and even walked through the woods in back.

Jake, want some tips on what to expect when they call you downtown ?
After all, seems you inspected the grounds much more carefully than the cops. ;)

[Nomimi]

I don't think he said that. At any rate, Michelle was already buried when the tooth was found, so no socket was available.

Like you, relying on memory, I believe rpd said he saw three whole teeth in the photos. From that, I believe neither he nor the medical examiner realized any teeth were missing.

--Jake

You are kidding right? What an absurd comment to make! You don't believe the medical examiner realized any teeth were missing!? Wonders never cease. Are you the one who drove by and threw the hammer/mallet in the Young's yard at yet another attempt to undermine the investigation? Sheesh!

[jake]

I agree RC. First it was the "heirloom" jewelry now its the tooth.

Why the obsession?

It's simple: find the jewelry, find the killer. Why shouldn't LE obsess over it?

--Jake

[jake]

Right. I am sure LE will want to interview someone that looked through all the bushes and walked front and back yards, and even walked through the woods in back.

Jake, want some tips on what to expect when they call you downtown ?
After all, seems you inspected the grounds much more carefully than the cops. ;)

Talk to my lawyer.

--Jake

[Nomimi]

Don't know why you would think it would be a defense argument. Doesn't make sense to me.

However, it might make a jury wonder how thorough the police investigation was. Maybe create a doubt in some minds.

--Jake

You are hoping for that aren't you Jake? Jason doesn't stand a chance in hell. Which is where he will eventually be...

[Nomimi]

You may be right about the tradesmen. I know leaves were raked/mowed after November and the grass has been cut several times.

When I was there I searched the grounds pretty thoroughly for a possible murder weapon. I figured the cops knew who had killed Michelle and possibly would not search the grounds.

I especially looked through all the bushes and walked front and back yards. I even walked through the woods in back.

Of course, I could have missed it.

--Jake

Even if LE had already found the murder weapon, I believe they would still search the grounds for more evidence. Did you forget your meds again? :doh:

[Nomimi]

Probably some embarrassing questions. The obvious question would be: whose tooth is it?

--Jake

To which they would reply: Michelle Marie Fisher Young's. :banghead:

[raisincharlie]

Will there be justice for Michelle if her innocent husband is indicted? If the tooth should turn out to be evidence that will put the real killer away, I'd like to see LE obsess over it.

--Jake


If the tooth is Michelle's - how will it prove anything other than the ferocity of the killer's intent ? I think it will be shown the tooth belongs to Michelle.

I don't believe Jason is innocent so I don't believe there is much chance for an innocent man to be indicted. He is not the victim.

[Nomimi]

I don't understand why anyone would obsess over this tooth if they really believed JY innocent. Seems to me more than anything they should be worried more about justice for Michelle being reached, rather than the potential for doubt. Just my take.:D

Sadly Charlie, I believe there are those who didn't know Michelle or care about her when she was alive. that's why all they seem to care about is getting poor little Jason off. After all, he was sweet and innocent, way back when...

[Nomimi]

Will there be justice for Michelle if her innocent husband is indicted? If the tooth should turn out to be evidence that will put the real killer away, I'd like to see LE obsess over it.

--Jake

If her husband is innocent, he won't be indicted. Why aren't you obsessing over the rest of Michelle's teeth that she lost? Or, why aren't you obsessing over the innocent baby boy that was brutally murdered? I don't believe that one tooth, or any other one that she lost, will be the evidence to put the real killer away. I believe no foreign DNA & the fact that Jason doesn't have a solid alibi, is what will put the real killer, Jason, away.

[jake]

If the tooth is Michelle's - how will it prove anything other than the ferocity of the killer's intent ? I think it will be shown the tooth belongs to Michelle.

I don't believe Jason is innocent so I don't believe there is much chance for an innocent man to be indicted. He is not the victim.

I think you're probably right about the tooth being Michelle's. But I don't know if LE even knows whose tooth it is.

I can imagine a scenario in which Michelle struggles free from her attacker and bashes him with something, knocking out a tooth. This might explain the anger and ferocity of the killing.

--Jake

[Nomimi]

I think you're probably right about the tooth being Michelle's. But I don't know if LE even knows whose tooth it is.

I can imagine a scenario in which Michelle struggles free from her attacker and bashes him with something, knocking out a tooth. This might explain the anger and ferocity of the killing.

--Jake

Well, you've seen Jason. Is he missing any teeth? Do you have something you would like to share with us?
:p

[Barney Fife]

I think you're probably right about the tooth being Michelle's. But I don't know if LE even knows whose tooth it is.

I

Testing a tooth's DNA and matching it to mY is a simple process.
LE knows the tooth belongs to Michelle.

[Samiya]

Excuse me while I wade through the mountain of teeth discussions, lmao
Here you go everyone.......

04/19/07 -- RALEIGH) - It's unclear at this time if the discovery on the Young's lawn is related to the case, but is has the attention of investigators.

A smaller mallet/hammer.

And at last there is soemthing else to discuss!

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=triangle&id=5227026

Sami

[raisincharlie]

I agree RC. First it was the "heirloom" jewelry now its the tooth.

Why the obsession?

Kadie,

It is not just one or the other - the obsession is over both - hence find the jewelry-find the killer keeps coming up. There are also other obsessions - each one equally questionable. JMO

ETA - LE incompetence, LE rush to judgement, LE....

[jake]

Testing a tooth's DNA and matching it to mY is a simple process.
LE knows the tooth belongs to Michelle.

Yes, I know. Even before the tooth had been tested, LE said the tooth was Michelle's. No way LE could know that. What makes you think it has been tested even now?

--Jake

SNIPPED+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Sam Pennica is the director of the City-County Bureau of Identification, the agency which conducts crime scene investigations in Wake County.

"Like any other profession, we're human and sometimes things get overlooked for various reasons," Pennica says.

But Pennica and others close to the investigation say the tooth is not a critical piece of evidence. Although it has not yet been tested they believe the tooth belonged to Michelle Young, not her killer.

"That tooth would have gone with the body to Chapel Hill for the autopsy and then it would have been buried with the body," Pennica says. "We would not have kept it as a piece of evidence," he continued.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=local&id=4811361 (http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=local&id=4811361)

[Barney Fife]

Excuse me while I wade through the mountain of teeth discussions, lmao
Here you go everyone.......

04/19/07 -- RALEIGH) - It's unclear at this time if the discovery on the Young's lawn is related to the case, but is has the attention of investigators.

A smaller mallet/hammer.

And at last there is something else to discuss!

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=triangle&id=5227026

Sami

Yes, we have been talking about the hammer and the fact Jake searched the yard and missed it. We know LE is incompetent, but Jake too ?

[The Saint]

Better be careful Jake - someone will think you planted it.

wasn't jake asking questions a few weeks ago about if you found something, whether it would be enough to hand it over to an attorney rather than give it to LE?
and would you be charged with anything?

jake, did you find that mallet?

or did you plant that mallet?


imo

[raisincharlie]

Yes, I know. Even before the tooth had been tested, LE said the tooth was Michelle's. No way LE could know that. What makes you think it has been tested even now?

--Jake

SNIPPED+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Sam Pennica is the director of the City-County Bureau of Identification, the agency which conducts crime scene investigations in Wake County.

"Like any other profession, we're human and sometimes things get overlooked for various reasons," Pennica says.

But Pennica and others close to the investigation say the tooth is not a critical piece of evidence. Although it has not yet been tested they believe the tooth belonged to Michelle Young, not her killer.

"That tooth would have gone with the body to Chapel Hill for the autopsy and then it would have been buried with the body," Pennica says. "We would not have kept it as a piece of evidence," he continued.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=local&id=4811361 (http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=local&id=4811361)



Jake,

Are you unaware that dental records are routinely used to identify people ? It is a long proven method and it takes but a short time to complete. All it takes is obtaining Michelle's records from her dentist - easy enough. My guess is LE knew very well who the tooth belonged to before they ever consented to an interview about it. This has been explained numerous times - here - CTV, elsewhere. You might consider it.

[The Saint]

Yes, I know. Even before the tooth had been tested, LE said the tooth was Michelle's. No way LE could know that. What makes you think it has been tested even now?

--Jake

SNIPPED+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Sam Pennica is the director of the City-County Bureau of Identification, the agency which conducts crime scene investigations in Wake County.

"Like any other profession, we're human and sometimes things get overlooked for various reasons," Pennica says.

But Pennica and others close to the investigation say the tooth is not a critical piece of evidence. Although it has not yet been tested they believe the tooth belonged to Michelle Young, not her killer.

"That tooth would have gone with the body to Chapel Hill for the autopsy and then it would have been buried with the body," Pennica says. "We would not have kept it as a piece of evidence," he continued.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=local&id=4811361 (http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=local&id=4811361)



jake, we've been through this --- the ME said that the tooth would have been buried with michelle. they have her dental records. they saw what was left of her teeth after jay smashed her head and mouth.

this is not sowing seeds of doubt.


it just makes it even more sad to think about the damage done to her pretty face by your friend, jay.

imo

[Nomimi]

Jake,

Are you unaware that dental records are routinely used to identify people ? It is a long proven method and it takes but a short time to complete. All it takes is obtaining Michelle's records from her dentist - easy enough. My guess is LE knew very well who the tooth belonged to before they ever consented to an interview about it. This has been explained numerous times - here - CTV, elsewhere. You might consider it.


Nah, he's too busy grasping at straws. He knows who killed Michelle, that's why he's trying to fudge the investigation. He figures it's the only chance Jason has of living.

[The Saint]

Probably some embarrassing questions. The obvious question would be: whose tooth is it?

--Jake

the most embarrassing question will be directed at jay,

"Why on earth did you kill michelle and your son(s)?"

imo

[strach304]

I don't believe LE didn't search the grounds at the time of investigation. To make my point there is proof that leaves were raked and the lawn mowed before this. Secondly wasn't there drywall or sheetrock replaced as well as carpet? LE will also know if this tool/instrument could have inflicted those wounds. Correct Sami?

Is the oversight of the tooth being brought up again as a reminder of what LE missed? The only kind of mallet I'm familiar with are the wooden ones used for cracking crabs. I can ask my brother about the tools for sheetrock and drywall though.

An aside note is that I noticed the report said it was found Easter sunday. Just now coming out. The neighbors statement was also interesting in that she said she wants the case resolved. Didn't sound fearful to me, at least that's the impression I got.

[Barney Fife]

How is a 'small hammer' similar to a 'mallet' ?

I think of a mallet being larger than a hammer.

[The Saint]

Will there be justice for Michelle if her innocent husband is indicted? If the tooth should turn out to be evidence that will put the real killer away, I'd like to see LE obsess over it.

--Jake

how about if the mallet was used by jay to pulverize his wife's head and mouth and it could have aided in putting the killer behind bars...

but someone didn't hand it over in a timely manner to LE? or let it sit in the yard where fingerprints might have been washed off by the rain?

a lot of people might obsess over that --- why would someone do that?

or why would someone plant a mallet that had nothing to do with the crime?

is a book deal that important to someone?

does someone have a fatal disease and they are sacrificing themselves and their reputation and their family's reputation to help a friend, get attention, or prove a point?

(these are hypothetical questions of course.... well, some of them.)

imo

[scandi]

Testing a tooth's DNA and matching it to mY is a simple process.
LE knows the tooth belongs to Michelle.

Hi Barney, Didn't your article on seeing the AR photos say the tooth was fitted into a socket so they know it was hers? BTW, I sure hope we have a link to that on our links thread.

If I remember correctly they found 3 bloody teeth and bloody shards as well at the crime scene. I wonder if the tooth found had blood on it like the rest did?

I have an idea about that tooth. The killer had her up against the wall, propping her up, and when he let go of her and she slumped down I think he took her feet and pulled them to move her away from the wall. When he was done with the blows to the side of her face, where the teeth were extricated, he accidently kicked a tooth with his shoe.

That is why it landed several feet away at the edge of the carpet, at the wall by the first closet.

[jake]

Jake,

Are you unaware that dental records are routinely used to identify people ? It is a long proven method and it takes but a short time to complete. All it takes is obtaining Michelle's records from her dentist - easy enough. My guess is LE knew very well who the tooth belonged to before they ever consented to an interview about it. This has been explained numerous times - here - CTV, elsewhere. You might consider it.

Thank you for your opinion. My guess is LE simply made a guess about the tooth belonging to Michelle. I think LE ASSUMED it belonged to Michelle. And maybe it does.

I don't know if LE has Michelle's dental records. Again, my guess is LE does not. And my guess is the news article is correct: no test of any kind was done on the tooth to identify it.

--Jake

[The Saint]

I think you're probably right about the tooth being Michelle's. But I don't know if LE even knows whose tooth it is.

I can imagine a scenario in which Michelle struggles free from her attacker and bashes him with something, knocking out a tooth. This might explain the anger and ferocity of the killing.

--Jake


or why he's been hiding at his little sister's house.

imo

[The Saint]

Thank you for your opinion. My guess is LE simply made a guess about the tooth belonging to Michelle. I think LE ASSUMED it belonged to Michelle. And maybe it does.

I don't know if LE has Michelle's dental records. Again, my guess is LE does not. And my guess is the news article is correct: no test of any kind was done on the tooth to identify it.

--Jake

LE has michelle's dental records.
please.

imo

[The Saint]

Hi Barney, Didn't your article on seeing the AR photos say the tooth was fitted into a socket so they know it was hers? BTW, I sure hope we have a link to that on our links thread.

If I remember correctly they found 3 bloody teeth and bloody shards as well at the crime scene. I wonder if the tooth found had blood on it like the rest did?

I have an idea about that tooth. The killer had her up against the wall, propping her up, and when he let go of her and she slumped down I think he took her feet and pulled them to move her away from the wall. When he was done with the blows to the side of her face, where the teeth were extricated, he accidently kicked a tooth with his shoe.

That is why it landed several feet away at the edge of the carpet, at the wall by the first closet.

horrifying visual --- it probably happened that way.

imo

[Barney Fife]

Thank you for your opinion. My guess is LE simply made a guess about the tooth belonging to Michelle. I think LE ASSUMED it belonged to Michelle. And maybe it does.

I don't know if LE has Michelle's dental records. Again, my guess is LE does not. And my guess is the news article is correct: no test of any kind was done on the tooth to identify it.

--Jake

My guess is you are barking up the wrong tree

[strach304]

Yes, I know. Even before the tooth had been tested, LE said the tooth was Michelle's. No way LE could know that. What makes you think it has been tested even now?

--Jake

SNIPPED+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Sam Pennica is the director of the City-County Bureau of Identification, the agency which conducts crime scene investigations in Wake County.

"Like any other profession, we're human and sometimes things get overlooked for various reasons," Pennica says.

But Pennica and others close to the investigation say the tooth is not a critical piece of evidence. Although it has not yet been tested they believe the tooth belonged to Michelle Young, not her killer.

"That tooth would have gone with the body to Chapel Hill for the autopsy and then it would have been buried with the body," Pennica says. "We would not have kept it as a piece of evidence," he continued.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=local&id=4811361 (http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=local&id=4811361)



You may have answered your own question in the highlighted area. When the report was given it hadn't been tested but as RC pointed out the dental records would confirm long before the dna would come back. So maybe he just meant at that time. We don't know that the ME didn't tell LE about a missing tooth or teeth as I've never seen it stated how many she actually lost and how many were actually found. Correct?

[jake]

You may have answered your own question in the highlighted area. When the report was given it hadn't been tested but as RC pointed out the dental records would confirm long before the dna would come back. So maybe he just meant at that time. We don't know that the ME didn't tell LE about a missing tooth or teeth as I've never seen it stated how many she actually lost and how many were actually found. Correct?

I think the autopsy report answers that. Sorry, I can't give a link. Maybe someone else can.

--Jake

[Barney Fife]

talking about this tooth is soooo ridiculous.

Jake,have any intersting news about Jason ?

Getting about time to move right ? We were told in march it would be 6 weeks . How about the 'latest' job?

[strach304]

Tooth could've been stuck in the drywall as well. With blood all over it LE may not have seen imprints in the wall or a tooth. If they cut it out after going over the floor, closets and furniture it could've fallen while removing those sections of the wall.

Sami, if you know from the AR could the two cuts on her lips have been cause by slamming her face into the wall?

[jake]

I think the autopsy report answers that. Sorry, I can't give a link. Maybe someone else can.

--Jake

This is a link to the rpd site. He saw the autopsy photos.

--Jake

http://autopsyphotos.blogspot.com/

[The Saint]

talking about this tooth is soooo ridiculous.

Jake,have any intersting news about Jason ?

Getting about time to move right ? We were told in late march it would be 6 weeks . How about the 'latest' job?

maybe those rumors were just to pacify his little sister and her husband.
they must be itching for him to move out.

that could be why TennisBuff was told that jay was moving. little sis must have been told that by jason so she'd see light at the end of the tunnel.

imo

[jake]

talking about this tooth is soooo ridiculous.

Jake,have any intersting news about Jason ?

Getting about time to move right ? We were told in late march it would be 6 weeks . How about the 'latest' job?

Which job is that? The one you said he lost? Or his job at Pizza Hut? Or as a rafting guide? Afraid I'm confused.

--Jake

[The Saint]

I think the autopsy report answers that. Sorry, I can't give a link. Maybe someone else can.

--Jake

Autopsy Report:

http://www.wral.com/news/local/flash/1175523/


Look at pages arrow 9 (real pg 10) & arrow 10 (real pg 11). The back and side view of those numerous wounds
could make a grown man cry.

what kind of vicious beast could do that to someone?

imo

[Nomimi]

Which job is that? The one you said he lost? Or his job at Pizza Hut? Or as a rafting guide? Afraid I'm confused.

--Jake

Well, we can rule out the rafting guide as you told me a couple of days ago that your daughter is not hiring him to work for her. Must be the Pizza Hut one as the original poster of the yet "other" job, has since come back and said that job fell through. So, Pizza Hut it is, I guess.

[The Saint]

Which job is that? The one you said he lost? Or his job at Pizza Hut? Or as a rafting guide? Afraid I'm confused.

--Jake

i'm not sure that i would trust him out in the wilderness with girls.
he has a history of talking inappropriately about his sex life at work.

and he has a temper.

imo

[jake]

talking about this tooth is soooo ridiculous.

Jake,have any intersting news about Jason ?

Getting about time to move right ? We were told in march it would be 6 weeks . How about the 'latest' job?

Reckon I don't know anything about a "move". I believe someone else brought that up.

--Jake

[The Saint]

Well, we can rule out the rafting guide as you told me a couple of days ago that your daughter is not hiring him to work for her*. Must be the Pizza Hut one as the original poster of the yet "other" job, has since come back and said that job fell through. So, Pizza Hut it is, I guess.

i guess that he became such a fixture at the Pizza Hut, that they offered him a job.
or maybe he has to wash the dishes to work off his tab.

*did jake post that publicly here?



imo

[strach304]

Doesn't the autopsy say avulsion of multiple teeth? I didn't see where it was stated how many were turned in to the ME from LE that were found or the exact amount of teeth avulsed. Maybe I'm missing something?

Michelle was also buried well before the house was released by LE.

[Barney Fife]

Which job is that? The one you said he lost? Or his job at Pizza Hut? Or as a rafting guide? Afraid I'm confused.

--Jake

Any of them. The one he had and then didn't have. I heard about the offer at your son-in law's enterprise. I have not heard about Pizza Hut. Did he get the assistant manager trainee job they have been advertising ?

[strach304]

i'm not sure that i would trust him out in the wilderness with girls.
he has a history of talking inappropriately about his sex life at work.

and he has a temper.

imo

A temper?

[The Saint]

Reckon I don't know anything about a "move". I believe someone else brought that up.

--Jake

he better not be planning to move in the backwoods hideaway of Eric Rudolph.
that big retainer would be for naught...

imo

[The Saint]

A temper?

see autopsy report and photos - the result of jay's hot temper.

imo

added: jay and michelle fought in front of other people. imagine what it must have been like at home.

[The Saint]

Any of them. The one he had and then didn't have. I heard about the offer at your son-in law's enterprise. I have not heard about Pizza Hut. Did he get the assistant manager trainee job they have been advertising ?


i think he's familiar with the menu

imo

[jake]

Just went back and looked at the search warrant for Jason's car. And yes, LE did seize a knife. Wonder why?

I've always thought there was too much blood in that room. I have a hard time believing it all came from head wounds. I know scalp wounds bleed profusely, but not for long periods, or so I've been told.

Maybe LE seized the knife as a possible murder weapon? The AR doesn't mention any knife wounds. But it is not a complete AR, in my opinion, and maybe that part was left out.

Anybody remember reading anything about other wounds on the body?

--Jake

[jake]

Doesn't the autopsy say avulsion of multiple teeth? I didn't see where it was stated how many were turned in to the ME from LE that were found or the exact amount of teeth avulsed. Maybe I'm missing something?

Michelle was also buried well before the house was released by LE.

The link to rpd's site will answer your question.

http://autopsyphotos.blogspot.com/

--Jake

[Nomimi]

i guess that he became such a fixture at the Pizza Hut, that they offered him a job.
or maybe he has to wash the dishes to work off his tab.

*did jake post that publicly here?

imo


I hope this doesn't go against any rules, but yes. Here it is:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/statusicon/post_old.gif 04-17-2007, 09:06 PM
jake (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/member.php?u=15044) http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/statusicon/user_online.gif vbmenu_register("postmenu_1445513", true);
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 212


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomimi http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1445465#post1445465)
Hey Jake, just trying to catch up. So, the rumor that I heard about Jason working for your daughter is NOT true? TIA

Glad you're catching up! Not true. But he would be a good guide.

--Jake

[jake]

Any of them. The one he had and then didn't have. I heard about the offer at your son-in law's enterprise. I have not heard about Pizza Hut. Did he get the assistant manager trainee job they have been advertising ?

Reckon you'll have to ask MF about that. I can't keep up with all his job opportunities.

--Jake

[Barney Fife]

[quote=jake;1450076]Just went back and looked at the search warrant for Jason's car. And yes, LE did seize a knife. Wonder why?

I've always thought there was too much blood in that room. I have a hard time believing it all came from head wounds. I know scalp wounds bleed profusely, but not for long periods, or so I've been told.

Maybe LE seized the knife as a possible murder weapon? The AR doesn't mention any knife wounds. But it is not a complete AR, in my opinion, and maybe that part was left out.

Anybody remember reading anything about other wounds on the body?

================================================== ====



I did not read about or SEE any knife wounds on her body. The published public report is the complete report. The ME did not withhold evidence of stab or slash wounds...how much mountain shine have you had tonight Jake ?

[Nomimi]

Just went back and looked at the search warrant for Jason's car. And yes, LE did seize a knife. Wonder why?

I've always thought there was too much blood in that room. I have a hard time believing it all came from head wounds. I know scalp wounds bleed profusely, but not for long periods, or so I've been told.

Maybe LE seized the knife as a possible murder weapon? The AR doesn't mention any knife wounds. But it is not a complete AR, in my opinion, and maybe that part was left out.

Anybody remember reading anything about other wounds on the body?

--Jake

No Jake. She died from blunt force trauma to her head. That's the only place there were wounds, except for possible defense wounds on her hands, if I recall correctly. Why are you trying to change the subject?

[raisincharlie]

Thank you for your opinion. My guess is LE simply made a guess about the tooth belonging to Michelle. I think LE ASSUMED it belonged to Michelle. And maybe it does.

I don't know if LE has Michelle's dental records. Again, my guess is LE does not. And my guess is the news article is correct: no test of any kind was done on the tooth to identify it.

--Jake


Dull worth

[Barney Fife]

No Jake. She died from blunt force trauma to her head. That's the only place there were wounds, except for possible defense wounds on her hands, if I recall correctly. Why are you trying to change the subject?

He talks in circles about teeth and now knives. Maybe his next subject will make some sense ?

[Scout]

Thank you for your opinion. My guess is LE simply made a guess about the tooth belonging to Michelle. I think LE ASSUMED it belonged to Michelle. And maybe it does.

I don't know if LE has Michelle's dental records. Again, my guess is LE does not. And my guess is the news article is correct: no test of any kind was done on the tooth to identify it.

--Jake


The article said that the tooth had not yet been tested -- yet being the key word, imo.

[The Saint]

[quote=jake;1450076]Just went back and looked at the search warrant for Jason's car. And yes, LE did seize a knife. Wonder why?

I've always thought there was too much blood in that room. I have a hard time believing it all came from head wounds. I know scalp wounds bleed profusely, but not for long periods, or so I've been told.

Maybe LE seized the knife as a possible murder weapon? The AR doesn't mention any knife wounds. But it is not a complete AR, in my opinion, and maybe that part was left out.

Anybody remember reading anything about other wounds on the body?

================================================== ====



I did not read about or SEE any knife wounds on her body. The published public report is the complete report. The ME did not withhold evidence of stab or slash wounds...how much mountain shine have you had tonight Jake ?

was jay chopping that wood to stoke the fire under a still?

imo

[jake]

The article said that the tooth had not yet been tested -- yet being the key word, imo.

And YET he identified the tooth as Michelle's.

--Jake

[strach304]

Just went back and looked at the search warrant for Jason's car. And yes, LE did seize a knife. Wonder why?

I've always thought there was too much blood in that room. I have a hard time believing it all came from head wounds. I know scalp wounds bleed profusely, but not for long periods, or so I've been told.

Maybe LE seized the knife as a possible murder weapon? The AR doesn't mention any knife wounds. But it is not a complete AR, in my opinion, and maybe that part was left out.

Anybody remember reading anything about other wounds on the body?

--Jake

In the Robb case LE originally thought she was shot her face and head were that bad. They said they didn't know she had been beat to death intil the ME told them.

My point about the knife is LE had no way of knowing the first night if a knife was involved as well. There were cuts.

[The Saint]

Reckon you'll have to ask MF about that. I can't keep up with all his job opportunities.

--Jake

meredith?
what are you saying now, jake?
that she's his secretary?


imo

added: she must really have nerves of steel, if she plans on hiring him. i think she knows his capabilities.

[strach304]

see autopsy report and photos - the result of jay's hot temper.

imo

added: jay and michelle fought in front of other people. imagine what it must have been like at home.

Ok, thought you meant something else besides that. A past history or a certain incident you knew about.

[citygirl]

Reckon you'll have to ask MF about that. I can't keep up with all his job opportunities.

--Jake

So, the husband and the sister-in-law keep in touch ?

Are you saying she would know about all the latest job contacts ?

[Nomimi]

He talks in circles about teeth and now knives. Maybe his next subject will make some sense ?

Don't hold your breath! :sick:

[The Saint]

And YET he identified the tooth as Michelle's.

--Jake

maybe it fit together like a puzzle --- a shard fit in the slot
that was created by jay pummeling her head and mouth with a heavy, crescent shaped object that fractured her skull and shattered her teeth which flew onto the carpet.

imo

[The Saint]

Ok, thought you meant something else besides that. A past history or a certain incident you knew about.

i think that he does have a history --- it's just not public yet.

but this could have been the first and last time he hit michelle and it was deadly to her and tiny, defenseless jason, jr.

imo

[strach304]

A mallet, it's type and uses..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mallet

[hollyjokers]

WHY?!?!?! Why are there no new developments in this case?!?! It is making me crazy!:doh:

[Barney Fife]

Jake...check your messages

[Barney Fife]

Reckon you'll have to ask MF about that. I can't keep up with all his job opportunities.

--Jake

Why would I ask Meredith about his job opportunities ?

You are now officially cut off Jake.

[jake]

[quote=jake;1450076]Just went back and looked at the search warrant for Jason's car. And yes, LE did seize a knife. Wonder why?

I've always thought there was too much blood in that room. I have a hard time believing it all came from head wounds. I know scalp wounds bleed profusely, but not for long periods, or so I've been told.

Maybe LE seized the knife as a possible murder weapon? The AR doesn't mention any knife wounds. But it is not a complete AR, in my opinion, and maybe that part was left out.

Anybody remember reading anything about other wounds on the body?

================================================== ====



I did not read about or SEE any knife wounds on her body. The published public report is the complete report. The ME did not withhold evidence of stab or slash wounds...how much mountain shine have you had tonight Jake ?

In checking out my shine, I found a long post by an "expert" telling what is wrong with the AR. He/she found it to be incomplete.

I also found an answer by rpd, explaining why he thought the AR was complete. This was on ctv, I believe, so I won't post it here.

At any rate, I believe the AR is incomplete. I also believe you are not telling everything you saw or you did not see complete body photos.

--Jake

[jake]

So, the husband and the sister-in-law keep in touch ?

Are you saying she would know about all the latest job contacts ?

I think rpd will have to answer that. I don't know what she knows. I haven't talked with her.

--Jake

[jake]

Good night, board.

--Jake

[Straitfan]

Without having to wade thru all the pages, can anyone give a brief update, ie where this case stands, what is the husband doing, where's the baby? Please say an arrest is close...Course this is the same state where the other young pregnant mother was murdered possibly by her husband and he has the child, right??

[Barney Fife]

[quote=Barney Fife;1450087]

In checking out my shine, I found a long post by an "expert" telling what is wrong with the AR. He/she found it to be incomplete.

I also found an answer by rpd, explaining why he thought the AR was complete. This was on ctv, I believe, so I won't post it here.

At any rate, I believe the AR is incomplete. I also believe you are not telling everything you saw or you did not see complete body photos.

--Jake

Jake has just uncovered a major conspiracy between the WCSO and the NCME. There were knife puncture wounds that were noted but not published in the AR. He found out about the 'secret report" that details these knife wounds. Please keep this quiet so no one loses their job over this .

[Barney Fife]

I think rpd will have to answer that. I don't know what she knows. I haven't talked with her.

--Jake

Jake has now revealed my source on JY's job rumors...Meredith Fisher

[The Saint]

[quote=jake;1450186]

Jake has just uncovered a major conspiracy between the WCSO and the NCME. There were knife puncture wounds that were noted but not published in the AR. He found out about the 'secret report" that details these knife wounds. Please keep this quiet so no one loses their job over this .

wait a minute. i think the ME might already have already been on thin ice because of his incomplete description of the sweatshirt hoodie...
perhaps that was just a rumor planted by a troll.

imo

[The Saint]

Jake has now revealed my source on JY's job rumors...Meredith Fisher


my word, she's a forgiving person.

imo

[The Saint]

I think rpd will have to answer that. I don't know what she knows. I haven't talked with her.

--Jake

jake,

i don't know how to tell you this, but i think meredith is pretty mad at you.

imo

[Taximom]

Without having to wade thru all the pages, can anyone give a brief update, ie where this case stands, what is the husband doing, where's the baby? Please say an arrest is close...Course this is the same state where the other young pregnant mother was murdered possibly by her husband and he has the child, right??

Straitfan, all I know is that "the real killer" has not been arrested yet and someone named Jake is keeping us entertained :waitasec: with fractured fairy tales.

[Straitfan]

Thanks Taximom!.. So is this Jake related somehow to any of the involved parties?

[The Saint]

Thanks Taximom!.. So is this Jake related somehow to any of the involved parties?

his wife is friends with jay's mom. he thinks of himself as a father figure to jay and has known him his whole life.

he met michelle once. i don't think he went to their wedding and i don't think he attended michelle's funeral.

you'll have to ask jake.

there is debate over whether Cassidy is staying with her dad at his younger sister's house or whether she is staying with jay's mom. they are in brevard and Cassidy is attending a church run daycare.
imo

[Straitfan]

Wow, interesting! Thanks The Saint, so is it any closer to the arrest or still no word? Does Michelle's family get to see the baby?

[Straitfan]

Hmmm..so if you know someone means they arent the killer? JK! I haven't read back to far but what I have read sounds little odd to me, jmo.

[scandi]

Hi Straitfan, No, if you know someone who you have an emotional attachment to you simply pray that person is not the killer. That's all, I think.

I have read almost all of Jakes posts here and there, and several times have heard in his words the doubt which he works to overcome. So I know he has thoughts that slip in there and raise his eyebrows at times.

He has a bit of an agenda to paint his friend, the POI in the case, as best he can, and so often has tried different ways to show how the crime could have been committed by someone else. Or let us know that his family friend could never simply turn like that and in a short period of time, turn into a vicious weapon bearing killer who could desimate someone to leave so much blood at the crime scene. And why he couldn't have done it. He knows him in one light as a person. Could he really have actually done this to her? I am so very sure it has crossed his mind.

I am just one of those posters who understands what he is up against in even posting on a board that is mostly on the opposite side of the fence. I don't care what anyone thinks, because in life I think friendship is almost sacred, and you have to stand behind your friends. I do respect him for that.

I do however think the day will come, and I think he very well sees this coming, when his friend will be arrested and charged with Michelle's murder. He will listen to what we say, as he has a great ability to hold his stance, take the comments on the boards and still say what he needs to.

If it comes to JY's arrest and he is tried, what I am thinking is that if Jake is a real friend of his he would go to him when the facts are clear, and tell him that above all what he owes to those he loves and to his daughter, is the truth, and it will set him free. It is what history has taught us that we need to do. And that as his friend he will always be there for him, no matter what he did. He will support him into his own bankrupsy if need be, out of respect for all the members of his family who are really wonderful people and never saw anything coming.

I think it boils down to the fact we all want justice for Michelle and her baby, Cassidy and her family and friends. I think he wants this too. He must also want JY's mind to have peace, if he really did commit this unbearable crime while he was Hyde-ish. He just has a difficult road to travel. When push comes to shove, if it does, he will feel terrible, and then we will need to be his friend. That is what friends are all about. Scandi

[The Saint]

Wow, interesting! Thanks The Saint, so is it any closer to the arrest or still no word? Does Michelle's family get to see the baby?

some feel an arrest is imminent, including the reporter ed crum, and i think jake senses it.

it is open for debate whether linda and meredith have been able to see Cassidy. Someone (possibly jay's mother or little sister) has sent linda
pictures of cassidy.

linda has planned a tree planting ceremony in NY on earth day in honor of michelle's memory.

imo

[The Saint]

Scandi,

That is a beautifully written post. But tonight, i kind of take a cynic's view that the Mary Winkler guilty verdict (on the lesser charge of manslaughter --- 3-6 years) might make jay think that the same lighter charge could apply to him.

do you think he might try to have RSmith work out copping a plea to manslaughter in the next few days?

imo

[scandi]

Scandi,

That is a beautifully written post. But tonight, i kind of take a cynic's view that the Mary Winkler guilty verdict (on the lesser charge of manslaughter --- 3-6 years) might make jay think that the same lighter charge could apply to him.

do you think he might try to have RSmith work out copping a plea to manslaughter in the next few days?

imo

Hi Saint, I have followed the Winkler case lightly, but have read all of todays threads Pfwew! I think the jury didn't hear what I heard. She went out of the room and got a gun out of a closet. Came back into the room where he was sleeping and shot him in the back! She might have talked to him while she was holding the gun on him, but she pulled her finger on that trigger when she decided that was it, he is toast! I also think the futile attempt to paint him cruel by wanting her in a wig and white platforms during sex was almost laughable. And did they examine the baby to see if there were choke marks on her neck?

I think it was premeditated and she should have received life. But then I also saw her laughing and feeling very comfortable in court when she didn't know the camera was on her. She could be a chamelion, and very good at it!


I don't think the outcome of the Winkler trial should give Jake any consolance when it comes to JY. If there were different jurors she could be facing 60 years tonight! The judge could overrule their decision. And Mary played the timid and demure piece of her personality to the max. It will be difficult for a man to play the same part to garner such understanding from 12 citizens. He will be first of all her husband and a man. And if he plays it like Mary did, they will convict him for sure! Scandi

[scandi]

I really don't see any reason for the State to offer him a plea, except to save the cost of the trial. They have her body. Yes, a confession would be icing on the cake for a trial. But the State won't move on this until they can prove it without a reasonable doubt anyway. That is how ship-shape they have to be because of the tarnished reputation of the prosecutors office and the stalwart strength of the opposing defense as it sits right now.

The only way for an offer would be {IMHO} is if they know he committed the crime but are short a fact or proof of something to nail the case. And if that were the case, I think Smith would see thru it and not agree to a lesser charge!

;} Scandi

[The Saint]

I really don't see any reason for the State to offer him a plea, except to save the cost of the trial. They have her body. Yes, a confession would be icing on the cake for a trial. But the State won't move on this until they can prove it without a reasonable doubt anyway. That is how ship-shape they have to be because of the tarnished reputation of the prosecutors office and the stalwart strength of the opposing defense as it sits right now.

The only way for an offer would be {IMHO} is if they know he committed the crime but are short a fact or proof of something to nail the case. And if that were the case, I think Smith would see thru it and not agree to a lesser charge!

;} Scandi

So is JF celebrating tonight because his mantra was right --- women get away with murder? or i guess you are saying to wait for the judge to
hand down Mary Winker's sentence.

the cost of jay's defense will be staggering --- the estimated to be $750,000.


i agree with you that the DA will not be all that willing to make a deal on such a brutal murder, especially one involving an unborn baby.

imo

[scandi]

Excuse me while I wade through the mountain of teeth discussions, lmao
Here you go everyone.......

04/19/07 -- RALEIGH) - It's unclear at this time if the discovery on the Young's lawn is related to the case, but is has the attention of investigators.

A smaller mallet/hammer.

And at last there is soemthing else to discuss!

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=triangle&id=5227026

Sami

Good Morning Sami, This is strange, isn't it? Jake said the lawn had been mowed several times. I don't think any killer would be stupid enough to toss out the murder weapon onto the property! I wonder if it was some prankish kids looking for excitement that tossed this out of a car? I wonder exactly where it was found?

This article says: Snippet "A spokesperson for the Wake County Sheriff's Department said, "There is a search warrant for an object yet to be determined if it's involved in the case." That tells me up to this point they have not found the murder weapon in all they took out of the home like we suspected they might have. That is a new thought!


Scandi

[Barney Fife]

This article says: Snippet "A spokesperson for the Wake County Sheriff's Department said, "There is a search warrant for an object yet to be determined if it's involved in the case." That tells me up to this point they have not found the murder weapon in all they took out of the home like we suspected they might have. That is a new thought!


Scandi
http://html.wral.com/news/local/flash/1085656/

Nothing listed on the SW that could be used a murder weapon was removed from the house. It was stated 'the crime scene NEEDS TO BE searched and processsed for evidence and instrumentalities of this crime'

I agree, the murder weapon was not recovered at the scene.

[raisincharlie]

http://html.wral.com/news/local/flash/1085656/

Nothing listed on the SW that could be used a murder weapon was removed from the house. It was stated 'the crime scene NEEDS TO BE searched and processsed for evidence and instrumentalities of this crime'

I agree, the murder weapon was not recovered at the scene.

Perhaps what LE has found interesting is the comparison between the time Meredith was called by JY and the time trash is routinely picked up on Fridays in the neighborhood. If these times line up, there is a possibility the weapon (and all that "missing" jewelry) may not be found. Of course the possibility remains that items associated with the murder were disposed of well away from the scene by someone late for their meeting.

[Barney Fife]

Just went back and looked at the search warrant for Jason's car. And yes, LE did seize a knife. Wonder why?

I've always thought there was too much blood in that room. I have a hard time believing it all came from head wounds. I know scalp wounds bleed profusely, but not for long periods, or so I've been told.

--Jake

Since Jake chose to ignore my PM to him on this subject, I will explain to the board why he is so curious about a knife wound.

One of my local contacts that has been in the house after the murder said :

"There was a lot of blood, but it was all very localized near the body, not all over the house. Some of the blood stains in the house looked more like they were from a stab or puncture wound, heavy thick blood in a line "

My take is that 'line of thick blood" poured from Michelle's mouth after she was viciously struck across the mouth and she staggered to the floor. No Jake, no stab wounds with a knife.

[j2mirish]

Thank you for your opinion. My guess is LE simply made a guess about the tooth belonging to Michelle. I think LE ASSUMED it belonged to Michelle. And maybe it does.

I don't know if LE has Michelle's dental records. Again, my guess is LE does not. And my guess is the news article is correct: no test of any kind was done on the tooth to identify it.

--Jake

:doh: :doh: :bang: :doh: :doh:

[raisincharlie]

:laugh: :laugh:



:doh: :doh: :bang: :doh: :doh:


I agree :D

[Scout]

Since Jake chose to ignore my PM to him on this subject, I will explain to the board why he is so curious about a knife wound.

One of my local contacts that has been in the house after the murder said :

"There was a lot of blood, but it was all very localized near the body, not all over the house. Some of the blood stains in the house looked more like they were from a stab or puncture wound, heavy thick blood in a line "

My take is that 'line of thick blood" poured from Michelle's mouth after she was viciously struck across the mouth and she staggered to the floor. No Jake, no stab wounds with a knife.





I would think the laceration on the left jaw would have been similar to a stab or puncture wound in that it appeared to have been made by the sharp edge of the broken bone, from the inside out.

[Scout]

And besides, scalp lacerations bleed profusely. Look at the Kathleen Peterson case. I'm recalling Henry Lee saying "Too much blood for a beating." Something like that anyway.

One of those gashes on Michelle's head was 4 1/2" long. There wasn't much left of her scalp on the back and left side.

If there were lines of blood, that sounds like she may have been up and mobile during part of the attack.

[j2mirish]

Thank you for your opinion. My guess is LE simply made a guess about the tooth belonging to Michelle. I think LE ASSUMED it belonged to Michelle. And maybe it does.

I don't know if LE has Michelle's dental records. Again, my guess is LE does not. And my guess is the news article is correct: no test of any kind was done on the tooth to identify it.

--Jake

:doh: :doh: :bang: :doh: :doh:

:laugh: :laugh:






I agree :D
sorry, I just couldnt take it anymore, then went on to read that the flipping ar is not correct either :hand:

[raisincharlie]

sorry, I just couldnt take it anymore, then went on to read that the flipping ar is not correct either :hand:

Calling the report we saw an AR is really stretching it. I believe all we saw was a COD - cause of death report. It is rather obvious the Autopsy Report is actually sealed IMO. No need to be sorry, point well taken.

[Barney Fife]

Hi Jake....see you are lurking at 11:30 am

How's the weather in Brevard ?

[j2mirish]

Calling the report we saw an AR is really stretching it. I believe all we saw was a COD - cause of death report. It is rather obvious the Autopsy Report is actually sealed IMO. No need to be sorry, point well taken.

I can deal with different opinions- if someone believes jy is innocent,
certainly their right- even appreciate the person who can come to a board and post when 95% of the posters think he is guilty...but God Dang it--- dont make shi* up, or be absurd about it......ok...I am done venting for the day :silenced:

[snowshuze]

:doh: :doh: :bang: :doh: :doh:


Ditto.

<personal note to Mr Jake...Research is your friend>

Good morning all.

[jake]

Hi Jake....see you are lurking at 11:30 am

How's the weather in Brevard ?

Hi, Barney,

Naw, I just left the computer on from earlier. Just came back in.

Beautiful weather here.

By the way, I still think the hammer/mallet is a joke, probably a prank by some kids. What do you think about it?

--Jake

[jake]

I can deal with different opinions- if someone believes jy is innocent,
certainly their right- even appreciate the person who can come to a board and post when 95% of the posters think he is guilty...but God Dang it--- dont make shi* up, or be absurd about it......ok...I am done venting for the day :silenced:

Is your post directed at me? If so, what did I make up?

--Jake

[jake]

Ditto.

<personal note to Mr Jake...Research is your friend>

Good morning all.

Thanks, I think. What should I research?

--Jake

[jake]

:doh: :doh: :bang: :doh: :doh:

Don't know what those yellow and green things are supposed to tell me. I think it means you disagree with something I said. Right?

--Jake

[Barney Fife]

Hi, Barney,

Naw, I just left the computer on from earlier. Just came back in.

Beautiful weather here.

By the way, I still think the hammer/mallet is a joke, probably a prank by some kids. What do you think about it?

--Jake

I see you changed your mind since last night when you told us you searched the yard and bushes. Glad to see you now agree this means nothing.

[Barney Fife]

Jake, are you still interested in the knife wounds that the ME left out of his report ?

[jake]

Jake, are you still interested in the knife wounds that the ME left out of his report ?

Why not? But I believe I made it clear I am guessing about two things: the wounds and the ME. I don't know jack.

--Jake

[Barney Fife]

Why not? But I believe I made it clear I am guessing about two things: the wounds and the ME. I don't know jack.

--Jake


I suppose you are right. There is a difference between a "guess" and an "educated guess".

[jake]

I suppose you are right. There is a difference between a "guess" and an "educated guess".

All I saw was the blood and the search warrant for Jason's car. From those two items, I made a guess. Is that educated? Or wild?

--Jake

[jake]

I see you changed your mind since last night when you told us you searched the yard and bushes. Glad to see you now agree this means nothing.

I reckon I don't know what I changed up my mind about. Too mysterious for me.

--Jake

[Barney Fife]

I reckon I don't know what I changed up my mind about. Too mysterious for me.

--Jake

If you want more info on the "mallet", you can contact the neighbor that mowed the grass and found it.
http://msweb01.co.wake.nc.us/realestate/Account.asp?id=0156151&stype=addr&stnum=&stname=birchleaf&locidList=&spg=3&cd=01&loc=5112++BIRCHLEAF+DR&des=LO35+ENCHANTED+OAKS+SC2+86%2D1150+PH1&pin=0781819208&page=1 (http://msweb01.co.wake.nc.us/realestate/Account.asp?id=0156151&stype=addr&stnum=&stname=birchleaf&locidList=&spg=3&cd=01&loc=5112++BIRCHLEAF+DR&des=LO35+ENCHANTED+OAKS+SC2+86%2D1150+PH1&pin=0781819208&page=1)

[Barney Fife]

All I saw was the blood and the search warrant for Jason's car. From those two items, I made a guess. Is that educated? Or wild?

--Jake

I vote for
deliriously wild

[Scout]

All I saw was the blood and the search warrant for Jason's car. From those two items, I made a guess. Is that educated? Or wild?

--Jake

When the car was searched, LE didn't even have the preliminary report from the ME yet. Considering the amount of blood at the crime scene, why shouldn't they have taken the knife into custody? Seems prudent to me.

[jake]

When the car was searched, LE didn't even have the preliminary report from the ME yet. Considering the amount of blood at the crime scene, why shouldn't they have taken the knife into custody? Seems prudent to me.

Me, too.

--Jake

[scandi]

Since Jake chose to ignore my PM to him on this subject, I will explain to the board why he is so curious about a knife wound.

One of my local contacts that has been in the house after the murder said :

"There was a lot of blood, but it was all very localized near the body, not all over the house. Some of the blood stains in the house looked more like they were from a stab or puncture wound, heavy thick blood in a line "

My take is that 'line of thick blood" poured from Michelle's mouth after she was viciously struck across the mouth and she staggered to the floor. No Jake, no stab wounds with a knife.





Hi Barney, Thick lines of blood remind me of what cast-off would look like.

[The Saint]

Hi, Barney,

Naw, I just left the computer on from earlier. Just came back in.

Beautiful weather here.

By the way, I still think the hammer/mallet is a joke, probably a prank by some kids. What do you think about it?

--Jake

i can think of two BIG KID jokesters who might do something idiotic like
planting a mallet. kids aren't reading the crime boards.

imo

[The Saint]

Since Jake chose to ignore my PM to him on this subject, I will explain to the board why he is so curious about a knife wound.

One of my local contacts that has been in the house after the murder said :

"There was a lot of blood, but it was all very localized near the body, not all over the house. Some of the blood stains in the house looked more like they were from a stab or puncture wound, heavy thick blood in a line "

My take is that 'line of thick blood" poured from Michelle's mouth after she was viciously struck across the mouth and she staggered to the floor. No Jake, no stab wounds with a knife.





Poor michelle.

Did this line of blood start downstairs or was it confined to the master bedroom and where did it start?

jmo

[scandi]

I know our Sami will know what cause that blood to look like cast off.

[Barney Fife]

Hi Barney, Thick lines of blood remind me of what cast-off would look like.

Scandi / Saint, the thick line of blood was on the floor beside the bed

[Scout]

Scandi / Saint, the thick line of blood was on the floor beside the bed

Thanks for the info, Barney. That's adding a new aspect to the attack that I don't want to go into in detail, but it sounds like there may have been two separate attacks with a time lapse in between. Horrific.

[raisincharlie]

Thanks for the info, Barney. That's adding a new aspect to the attack that I don't want to go into in detail, but it sounds like there may have been two separate attacks with a time lapse in between. Horrific.

As much as I don't want to say this - I think this scenario is most likely true.

[DEPUTYDAWG]

Scandi / Saint, the thick line of blood was on the floor beside the bed

Barney,
I'm trying to picture the "thick" line of blood - is it 1/2", 1" or 3"? Just trying to make sure we're all picturing the same thing. Were you told a more detailed description of what constituted "thick?"

TIA

[Barney Fife]

Barney,
I'm trying to picture the "thick" like of blood - is it 1/2", 1" or 3"? Just trying to make sure we're all picturing the same thing. Were you told a more detailed description of what constituted "thick?"

TIA

Hi Deputy

Sorry, I have not seen photos. The only detail I have is what I posted.
(excerpt from an e-mail. This person saw it first hand)

Since Jake knows about this blood, maybe he will be kind enough to describe in greater detail for us...he thought it was from a knife wound.

[DEPUTYDAWG]

Hi Deputy

Sorry, I have not seen photos. The only detail I have is what I posted.
(excerpt from an e-mail. This person saw it first hand)

Since Jake knows about this blood, maybe he will be kind enough to describe in greater detail for us...he thought it was from a knife wound.

Thanks, Barney. No problem, was just hoping to hear a relative dimension of "thick," in relation to where Michelle's body ended up laying. (That's just even sad to type.)

Jake: Here's a question for you. We know the Young family took photos in the house after it was released by LE. Has Jason looked at the photos?

[jake]

Hi Deputy

Sorry, I have not seen photos. The only detail I have is what I posted.
(excerpt from an e-mail. This person saw it first hand)

Since Jake knows about this blood, maybe he will be kind enough to describe in greater detail for us...he thought it was from a knife wound.

I don't recall seeing a line of blood as you describe. Of course, when I was there the carpet by the bed was gone. I only saw the pad.

--Jake

[Barney Fife]

I don't recall seeing a line of blood as you describe. Of course, when I was there the carpet by the bed was gone. I only saw the pad.

--Jake

Just curious, why do you think there were knife wounds ? You have said the amount of blood seemed to be too much for head wounds.

I understand you saw the photos AFTER the cleaning crew pulled up the carpet ? Or are you talking about the area cut out by LE under MY's body ? What blood are you talking about ?

............ my source saw the carpet before it was removed.

[caffeinatd]

Just curious, why do you think there were knife wounds ? You have said the amount of blood seemed to be too much for head wounds.

I understand you saw the photos AFTER the cleaning crew pulled up the carpet. What blood are you talking about ?

............ my source saw the carpet before it was removed.

Scalp wounds bleed profusely, often causing life threatening hypotension. Injuries around the temperal artery can cause massive bleeding because it is a very superficial artery. It is not uncommon for people with severe head lacs..(mag light to a scalp) to need to be transfused. JMOO

[jake]

Just curious, why do you think there were knife wounds ? You have said the amount of blood seemed to be too much for head wounds.

I understand you saw the photos AFTER the cleaning crew pulled up the carpet. What blood are you talking about ?

............ my source saw the carpet before it was removed.

Then your source probably saw much more blood than I did. The blood I saw had soaked through the carpet into the pad.

--Jake

[Barney Fife]

Though the firm is one of the best in NC, JY's attorney, Roger Smith jr. is NOT in that class. He will handle a speeding ticket for you.....need I say more ?

http://www.tharringtonsmith.com/index.php

http://www.tharringtonsmith.com/attorneysDetail.php?aid=21

34 year old Roger jr's first love was www.appalachiandesigns.com (http://www.appalachiandesigns.com/) .... he was co-founder.
He ended up going to Campbell Law School because his Dad was a top attorney ?? No offense to Campbell, but there are much BETTER (and selective) law schools in NC....Duke, Wake Forest and UNC.

[j2mirish]

Don't know what those yellow and green things are supposed to tell me. I think it means you disagree with something I said. Right?

--Jake

in a nutshell

[Barney Fife]

Though the firm is one of the best in NC, JY's attorney, Roger Smith jr. is NOT in that class. He will handle a speeding ticket for you.....need I say more ?

http://www.tharringtonsmith.com/index.php

http://www.tharringtonsmith.com/attorneysDetail.php?aid=21

34 year old Roger jr's first love was www.appalachiandesigns.com (http://www.appalachiandesigns.com/) .... he was co-founder.
He ended up going to Campbell Law School because his Dad was a top attorney ?? No offense to Campbell, but there are much BETTER (and selective) law schools in NC....Duke, Wake Forest and UNC.


Having said that...think his Dad will "help Jr. out" ?
I say YES. This "once in a life time" trial will put Roger jr on the map .

[The Saint]

Though the firm is one of the best in NC, JY's attorney, Roger Smith jr. is NOT in that class. He will handle a speeding ticket for you.....need I say more ?

http://www.tharringtonsmith.com/index.php

http://www.tharringtonsmith.com/attorneysDetail.php?aid=21

34 year old Roger jr's first love was www.appalachiandesigns.com (http://www.appalachiandesigns.com/) .... he was co-founder.
He ended up going to Campbell Law School because his Dad was a top attorney ?? No offense to Campbell, but there are much BETTER (and selective) law schools in NC....Duke, Wake Forest and UNC.

the locust bridge is lovely.
it sounds like RSmith Jr. is artistic and has interests outside of law --- i think that's good.

a lot of lawyers hate being lawyers.

don't be hard on him --- jay's case would be extremely difficult for any defense laywer. his client murdered michelle and the little boy(s) and a jury is not going to like JY for MANY reasons.

no matter what defense lawyer accepted this case, the result would be the same - guilty.

imo

[j2mirish]

Having said that...think his Dad will "help Jr. out" ?
I say YES. This "once in a life time" trial will put Roger jr on the map .

absolutly I agree- he will be the voice behind the actions