The Doe Network, Part 2: Who is Princess Blue?

[LionRun]

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w137/LionRun/PrincessBlue1.jpgThese are both sketches of Princess Blue. Please note that no one knows her what her hair color, eye color, or skin tone was. Focusing on her facial structure and imagining her with any hair color, eye color, and skin tone may help bring back memories of who she was. Princess Blue may have been White (aka Caucasian) with the possibility of mixed race ancestry.


http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w137/LionRun/PrincessBlueupdatedpic.jpg

This is part two of a thread called, The Doe Network" at http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48232

The Doe Network:
Case File 137UFTX

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/images/137UFTX.jpg Please Note: She is now being described as, "White" on the TX dps site. This has recently been changed. It is a possibility that she was White with the possibility of mixed race ancestry.
Victim's Ring
Unidentified White / Hispanic Female


The victim was discovered on September 10, 1990 in Brazoria County, Texas.
Estimated Date of Death: 6 months - 1 year
Vital Statistics


Estimated age: 16 - 22 years old
Approximate Height and Weight: 4'10" - 5'2"
Distinguishing Characteristics: The victim possibly had a tumor on her knee.
Dentals: Dental information available
DNA: IN CODIS
Jewelry: A gold band with 6 clear stones, 2 thin silver bands, a silver band with a scroll design, a Robert E. Lee High School ring (1975), a silver ring with a turquoise unicorn and a pearl-beaded bracelet.http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/images/137UFTX1.jpg http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/images/137UFTX2.jpg
Victim's Rings
Case History
The victim was located on a pile of debris at the end of a Brazoria County road on September 10, 1990
The skeleton was found by an Alvin man who had pulled off the highway to find a place to urinate. He stepped behind a barricade and saw a skull in an old tire.
Authorities beleive the rings are the clue to solving the case. Three rings were on the skeleton's fingers. One was silver with a scroll design, another had a turquoise unicorn on it. But investigators think the 1975 Lee High School ring probably has the best chance of leading to her identity. A jeweler told investigators the ring was a size 9 1/2 and had been resized twice. The person it fit was probably about 175 pounds. She would have been far too young for the 1975 class ring to be hers. It could have been given to her by an aunt, an older sister, by anybody.
The company that made Lee High School's rings doesn't have records from 1975. The Lee class of 1975 probably had about 150 girls. Authorities would like to hear from any of the girls who lost a ring or gave it to somebody else. An ornate "L" inlaid in the blue stone could have stood for the owner's last name or for Lee High School.
No traces of drugs were found in the bone marrow.

Manvel, Texas
Manvel Police Department
POC: Jay Coffman - 281-489-1212
Saturday, September 2, 2006



Ring is top clue in cold case

Teens Remains were found along Brazoria County road in 1990

By: Richard Stewart (richard.stewart@chron.com), Houston Chronicle


ANGLETON, TEXAS - A well-worn ring from the 1975 class of Houston's Robert E. Lee High School is the main evidence police have to try to unravel a 16-year-old mystery. It was found on the finger of a skeleton at the end of a Brazoria County road in 1990.


"It's not much to go on," said Manvel police Detective Jay Coffman, "but it's about all we've got."


In the nine years since the remains were found, investigators have not been able to tell what happened to the female victim, how she got to be on a pile of debris or, more importantly, who she was.


"Somebody's missing this girl," Coffman said, holding the ring. Somebody is missing the ring, too, he said, because he doubts it originally belonged to the victim.


A medical examiner's report estimated that the skeleton found on September 10, 1990, was that of a girl about 17 years old, plus or minus two years, Coffman said. She would have been far too young for the 1975 class ring to be hers.

(Please Note: Princess Blue's time of death has recently been changed from between 6 months to 1 year prior to being found on September 10th, 1990 to, "Unknown." Therefore, it is possible that the ring did originally belong to her. I am currently trying to work this possibility out with the fact that it was reported that bone marrow was taken from at least one of her bones for drug testing. I don't know how there would have been viable bone marrow left in 1990 if she had been killed years before in the mid 70's. Please look for updated information on this in future posts).


"It could have been given to her by an aunt, an older sisters, by anybody," Coffman said.


Richard Rosser, an investigator with the Brazoria County Sheriff's Department, is working with Coffman to solve the mystery.


"Back then, Brazoria County was a dumping ground for bodies of people killed in Houston," Rosser said. "It seemed like we had at least one a month."


The skeleton was found by an Alvin man who had pulled off the highway to find a place to urinate. He told investigators that he stepped behind a barricade and saw a skull in an old tire.


Investigators have no clues as to how she died. No traces of drugs were found in the bone marrow. Medical examiners estimated she had been dead six months to a year.


The victim was about 5 feet tall, plus or minus 2 inches. Medical examiners said the skeleton was probably that of a Hispanic female.


Investigators looked at dozens of different reports of missing teenage girls, but none seemed to match the skeleton.


Three rings were on the skeleton's fingers. One was silver with a scroll design, another had a turquoise unicorn on it. But investigators think the 1975 Lee High School ring probably has the best chance of leading to her identity.


A jeweler recently told investigators the ring was a size 91/2 and had been resized twice. The person it fit was probably about 175 pounds. [Please Note: The TX dps site has changed her weight to, "unknown". A forensic pathologist was not used to help determine her weight. Going by just the ring size would not necessarily be accurate]


An ornate "L" inlaid in the blue stone could have stood for the owner's last name or for Lee High School. The company that made Lee High School's rings doesn't have records from 1975, Rosser said.


The Lee class of 1975 probably had about 150 girls, Rosser said. He would like to hear from any of them who lost a ring or gave it to somebody else. The skeleton is now at the University of North Texas Health Science Center at Forth Worth. That facility operates the Texas Missing Persons DNA Database, which, in turn, feeds information about missing persons to the Combined DNA Index System (CODIS), operated by the Federal Bureau of Investigation.


If investigators get new leads, they can try to test the DNA of relatives to identify her.


"We would at least have a name," Coffman said.


Anyone with information about this case can contact Manvel Police Detective Jay Coffman at 281-489-1212 or e-mail him at jcoffman@manvelpd.org.

[Jaded]

Draft of the letter to Alumni. Need feedback and suggestions.

http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=ddjrtkt5_2chz54x

[richandfamous]

Draft of the letter to Alumni. Need feedback and suggestions.

http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=ddjrtkt5_2chz54x

I like it! Thanks!

[richandfamous]

Did anyone ever say if this ring is a horse or a unicorn?
http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/mpch_images/final/U031014A.jpg

[RKnowley]

Looks like a unicorn to me. If you look on the forehead area right above the eyes at the bridge of the nose I think I see a pokey up horn there.

Did anyone ever say if this ring is a horse or a unicorn?
http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/mpch_images/final/U031014A.jpg

[Jaded]

I think it's a unicorn.

[LionRun]

Draft of the letter to Alumni. Need feedback and suggestions.

http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=ddjrtkt5_2chz54x

Hi Jaded. The TOD has recently been changed from 6 mo.-1 yr to unknown. Perhaps we may want to reflect that in the letter.

Also, her race has been changed from White/Hispanic to White. Perhaps we could describe her as possibly being White or White/Hispanic. And, we may want to note that we have no idea what her hair and eye color could have been. I'd hate for someone to not say anything about a blond haired girl that went missing because they are under the impression that Princess had dark hair and was Hispanic.

In addition, her weight is unknown and the TX dps site reflects that, for her weight was changed to, "unknown." Unfortunately, LE initially went only by the ring size and never had an a forensic anthropologist examine her.

I might want to put the additional, little pic in there because there are differences between the two pics. In the little one her lips are not puckered and her face is narrower. Someone could recognize her from either pic even though the one showing her with long hair looks nicer.

I hope it is okay that I made several suggestions. I know that we want to include as much info in the letter and have it be as accurate as possible for the best possible results.

Lion

[Jaded]

I've changed the information. Thanks so much for bringing it to my attention. I'll also include the smaller picture of her with short hair.

[Jaded]

Check it out now. As always, feel free to interject and offer suggestions. We want this as concise as possible. Thanks again. You guys rock!!

[LionRun]

I think it's a unicorn.

I think it is a unicorn, too. Thank you for being so open minded concerning the suggestions I had! You Rock!

Lion

[RKnowley]

Nothing serious but maybe under where it says Physical Description you could take out the Princess Doe and put Princess Blue to keep that consistant throughout the letter? Thank you so much for what you are doing. It's looking great.

Check it out now. As always, feel free to interject and offer suggestions. We want this as concise as possible. Thanks again. You guys rock!!

[RKnowley]

I have a question...Since dentals are available for Princess Blue how do we find out if she had any dental work done? Were her teeth in good repair, did she have fillings, etc or was her teeth in bad condition with no work done to them and perhaps decayed?

[LionRun]

Draft of the letter to Alumni. Need feedback and suggestions.

http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=ddjrtkt5_2chz54x

I might want to change, "female" to "girl or young woman". It is more personal, and we hope to strike a chord and get people to care enough to think back all those years ago.

Lion

Also,

[LionRun]

I have a question...Since dentals are available for Princess Blue how do we find out if she had any dental work done? Were her teeth in good repair, did she have fillings, etc or was her teeth in bad condition with no work done to them and perhaps decayed?

That is a very good question. That could possibly help us. Sgt. Coffman never replied to my last 2 emails, and I don't expect that he will at this point. But, I really think it could help us with any preliminary matches. So, I wonder how we could find out. if we get a list of, "must know in order to proceed" questions perhaps I can call him just once with several important questions.

I was just thinking. I know that they have dental info available. But, if some of her teeth fell out over time due to decomposition, there may be limited dental info. But, even that might help us.

Lion

[Jaded]

Nothing serious but maybe under where it says Physical Description you could take out the Princess Doe and put Princess Blue to keep that consistant throughout the letter? Thank you so much for what you are doing. It's looking great.

Good catch! I've made the suggested changes.

Could someone post a link at skm re: search sites that you use. I know about zabasearch, but if there are others out there that would be useful, I'd love to have them.

I'm going to be up all night. I'm trying to stick to my work schedule on my days off, and since there is nothing on tv that late, I'm going to use the time to do research on this case.

[richandfamous]

OT: have you guys seen this site? someone else posted it on the first page of the first thread but I can't remember who...it is interesting.
http://icaremissingpersonscoldcases.yuku.com/forums/98/t/Unidentified-Women-and-Teenage-Girls-1980-1989.html

Jaded, I will go post all the links I can think of on skm for you. happy hunting.

[RKnowley]

You think the ME would give us info? LOL Wishful thinking on my part. If it says dentals are available does that mean that they could compare those to other dental records to find out an identity?

That is a very good question. That could possibly help us. Sgt. Coffman never replied to my last 2 emails, and I don't expect that he will at this point. But, I really think it could help us with any preliminary matches. So, I wonder how we could find out. if we get a list of, "must know in order to proceed" questions perhaps I can call him just once with several important questions.

I was just thinking. I know that they have dental info available. But, if some of her teeth fell out over time due to decomposition, there may be limited dental info. But, even that might help us.

Lion

[LionRun]

Good catch! I've made the suggested changes.

Could someone post a link at skm re: search sites that you use. I know about zabasearch, but if there are others out there that would be useful, I'd love to have them.

I'm going to be up all night. I'm trying to stick to my work schedule on my days off, and since there is nothing on tv that late, I'm going to use the time to do research on this case.

Jaded, where do we post links for searches? Should we start a thread specifically for search links perhaps in the main forum? Then it could help us with all searches.

Lion

[RKnowley]

That sounds like a good idea Lion.

Jaded, where do we post links for searches? Should we start a thread specifically for search links perhaps in the main forum? Then it could help us with all searches.

Lion

[LionRun]

You think the ME would give us info? LOL Wishful thinking on my part. If it says dentals are available does that mean that they could compare those to other dental records to find out an identity?

The ME would need to look up her records, if he/she has them, and read through it. I want to be careful about calling LE or ME too often, with one or two questions at a time. They get many calls each day, and I want to be efficient because of this. Since we don't need the info just yet, I am thinking we may want to save up any important questions for one phone call.

Lion

[LionRun]

That sounds like a good idea Lion.


Thanks, RKowley:blowkiss:.

Jaded, if you like that idea, shall we post it as a sticky?

[RKnowley]

I didn't say anybody needed to call anyone NOW...LOL I just wanted to know how we could find out if necessary.

Also the condition of her teeth may tell us if she was living on the street or could afford dental work.

The ME would need to look up her records, if he/she has them, and read through it. I want to be careful about calling LE or ME too often, with one or two questions at a time. They get many calls each day, and I want to be efficient because of this. Since we don't need the info just yet, I am thinking we may want to save up any important questions for one phone call.

Lion

[RKnowley]

rich, looks like an interesting site. A good one to keep around.

OT: have you guys seen this site? someone else posted it on the first page of the first thread but I can't remember who...it is interesting.
http://icaremissingpersonscoldcases.yuku.com/forums/98/t/Unidentified-Women-and-Teenage-Girls-1980-1989.html

Jaded, I will go post all the links I can think of on skm for you. happy hunting.

[richandfamous]

Jaded, where do we post links for searches? Should we start a thread specifically for search links perhaps in the main forum? Then it could help us with all searches.

Lion

I started a new topic for the research links on skm, if it's in the wrong spot just move it for me. I put all the links I had off the top of my head but when I get home I will add more links. Ya all can add to the links over there.

http://someoneknowsme.com/upload/index.php?showtopic=62

[Sable]

In addition, her weight is unknown and the TX dps site reflects that, for her weight was changed to, "unknown." Unfortunately, LE initially went only by the ring size and never had an a forensic anthropologist examine her.
Wouldn't a forensic anthropologist be the one that determined she may have had a tumor on her knee? Or is that something that could be determined by anyone else in the medical field?

Should we see about having the other thread locked so we are all on the same page?

I'm going to see about finding a 1974 REL yearbook, or at least someone with a 1974 REL yearbook. I want to cross-refrence the juniors in 74 with juniors and seniors in 75. I posted this "zebra" in Part One (or maybe it was someoneknowsme.com?) but I feel it deserves a look. If the ring belonged to her mother, then it's possible Princess Blue's mom was pregnant with her during her junior year (1974) and it caused her to fall short of the number of credits needed to be classified as a senior the following year (1975). If that were the case, it's still possible that at the end of 75 she had enough credits to graduate with the rest of the senior class. Even if she had to take classes over the summer to recieve her diploma and graduate, it would still fit with the 1975 class ring. Particularly since rings are typically ordered sometime before graduation.

MrsG- I would be glad to help you add names to the spreadsheet. Just tell me what page in the yearbook I should start with. I can put a * next to the names that I have trouble reading in the scans so they can be double checked. Also, would it be possible to scan the student index pages so that we can have a list of names for everyone in the yearbook in case we want to cross-refrence names we find (in articles, missing person sites, etc.) against students from the freshman, sophomore, and junior classes as well?

[RKnowley]

You could have a 1974 REL yearbook for a mere $75.00 on EBay, lol!

http://cgi.ebay.com/1974-ROBERT-E-LEE-HIGH-SCHOOL-YEARBOOK-HOUSTON_W0QQitemZ4540007009QQcmdZViewItem

[Julessleuther]

Hi Jaded. The TOD has recently been changed from 6 mo.-1 yr to unknown. Perhaps we may want to reflect that in the letter.

Also, her race has been changed from White/Hispanic to White. Perhaps we could describe her as possibly being White or White/Hispanic. And, we may want to note that we have no idea what her hair and eye color could have been. I'd hate for someone to not say anything about a blond haired girl that went missing because they are under the impression that Princess had dark hair and was Hispanic.

In addition, her weight is unknown and the TX dps site reflects that, for her weight was changed to, "unknown." Unfortunately, LE initially went only by the ring size and never had an a forensic anthropologist examine her.

I might want to put the additional, little pic in there because there are differences between the two pics. In the little one her lips are not puckered and her face is narrower. Someone could recognize her from either pic even though the one showing her with long hair looks nicer.

I hope it is okay that I made several suggestions. I know that we want to include as much info in the letter and have it be as accurate as possible for the best possible results.

Lion


Wow--all those changes really does change everything!

[Sable]

You could have a 1974 REL yearbook for a mere $75.00 on EBay, lol!

http://cgi.ebay.com/1974-ROBERT-E-LEE-HIGH-SCHOOL-YEARBOOK-HOUSTON_W0QQitemZ4540007009QQcmdZViewItem (http://cgi.ebay.com/1974-ROBERT-E-LEE-HIGH-SCHOOL-YEARBOOK-HOUSTON_W0QQitemZ4540007009QQcmdZViewItem [/quote)

Yeah, and that's the only one I've been able to find. :( Paying $75 for the 1975 yearbook...maybe. But not the 1974 yearbook. Instead, I think I'll try to find someone with a 1974 yearbook who would be willing to at least make some scans of the juniors section for us.

[Jaded]

Yeah, and that's the only one I've been able to find. :( Paying $75 for the 1975 yearbook...maybe. But not the 1974 yearbook. Instead, I think I'll try to find someone with a 1974 yearbook who would be willing to at least make some scans of the juniors section for us.

I wonder if we could befriend the local librarian or school librarian to do it for us?

[Julessleuther]

Hey guys--was just looking at this again--look at #75, who I believe is also in #81. This guy is known to have been in TX.


http://lacountymurders.com/wanted/Bradford-006-00038-3100-444.pdf

[LionRun]

Wouldn't a forensic anthropologist be the one that determined she may have had a tumor on her knee? Or is that something that could be determined by anyone else in the medical field?

Should we see about having the other thread locked so we are all on the same page?

I'm going to see about finding a 1974 REL yearbook, or at least someone with a 1974 REL yearbook. I want to cross-refrence the juniors in 74 with juniors and seniors in 75. I posted this "zebra" in Part One (or maybe it was someoneknowsme.com?) but I feel it deserves a look. If the ring belonged to her mother, then it's possible Princess Blue's mom was pregnant with her during her junior year (1974) and it caused her to fall short of the number of credits needed to be classified as a senior the following year (1975). If that were the case, it's still possible that at the end of 75 she had enough credits to graduate with the rest of the senior class. Even if she had to take classes over the summer to recieve her diploma and graduate, it would still fit with the 1975 class ring. Particularly since rings are typically ordered sometime before graduation.

MrsG- I would be glad to help you add names to the spreadsheet. Just tell me what page in the yearbook I should start with. I can put a * next to the names that I have trouble reading in the scans so they can be double checked. Also, would it be possible to scan the student index pages so that we can have a list of names for everyone in the yearbook in case we want to cross-refrence names we find (in articles, missing person sites, etc.) against students from the freshman, sophomore, and junior classes as well?

I PM'd jeana (DP) to ask her to lock the original thread.

I imagine an ME may have examined Princess Blue's remains could have determined that she may have had evidence of a possible tumor on one of her knees. But, a forensic anthropologist would have been the one to estimate her age at TOD, and I don't think it was ever done. Unfortunately, we can't rule out any weight unless or until we learn facts that indicate what her approximate weight at TOD was.

The librarian said that any of us can go to their library and copy the entire yb if they want. Do we have anyone hear Houston who could do that?

I mentioned a while ago that according to the librarian who also graduated from REL in 1980, the rings were most likely ordered in the fall of 74. The YB pics were probably not taken until the spring of 75. It is possible that the student we are looking for is not in the yb. I agree with you Sable that we should look into trying to obtain the 74 yb or at least find a way to copy all of the pages. If we do not find who Princess Blue was via the 1975 grads, we may want to contact the 74 grads as well. Some juniors would have been friends with or at least known the seniors, perhaps.

Lion

[sloane]

Good Morning everyone!
Seems like a huge amount of work was done last night! Thanks to all, and congrats! I had wanted to stay on longer but something came up...

I just thought you might like to know that there absolutely WAS a FULL forensic anthropological work-up on PB's remains--recently! The original report was from the ME, back in 1990. Since there is so much more info. "these days," and Lion is right (as usual), a for. anthro's. study is much more in depth than an ME's., the request was made recently to have her examined. Obviously you guys noticed the changes made to her profile on the TX MPCH website. You're right, the weight has not been determined exactly, but if you will TRUST ME, it is highly doubtful that she was 175#. It is also likely that her hair was dark, and prob. her eyes as well, but that's not to say she was Hispanic. (I am telling you what I can. Please understand.)
I see Lion's point in not ruling out young women w/ lighter hair, I'm just trying to explain the odds. Also, this newer
report is in synch with the original ME's report re: her age: late teens to early twenties. To answer someone's question from awhile back, Lion's I think, the missing person centers will add a year or two onto each end of the scale to have a bigger sweep of possibilities. Because, of course mistakes in the exam are possible. The for. anthro.'s report always give a range with a plus or minus variable. In PB's case it was two years in either direction.
Does this ake sense?

Warmly,

[sloane]

One more thing, just so you know, the two facial reporductions are the same exact face. There is NO difference in the lips, jaw structure, cheeks, or weight. The only difference is the hair. It DOES come in closer around her neck area, as long hair sometimes falls, so it covers parts of it, and her ear, so perhaps that's why it appears that her face is different. I think it is a great idea to put both images in your letter, though. Some times some of the subtleties can get blended once it's been reproduced again and again.

ETA: Oh, I need to also add that there is a difference in her eyebrows as well. Hair is such a variable...you never know how it might have been styled, esp. girls!

My best,

[suzannec4444]

Hi
Thankyou.I care is my board.It is dedicated to my missing sister Tammy Lynn Leppert.She came up missing in 1983.May I please say some things and ask some questions.Some one here said she could have been lighter complected and lighter hair.I am having this problem with trying to find a match with skeletal remains and my sister.My sister has dyed blond hair and has some indian in her.So if I find skeletal remains and they say the skeletal remains are hispanic or indian people will think of the Jane Doe as dark complected and not look into tammy which is very frustrating.The Jane Doe might not have been dark complected and look nothing at all like this sketch.But you never know.This Jane Doe could be part indian also.Probably mostly white.If they are saying that then she probably had lighter brown hair.They usually say hispanic or indian I believe of the high cheek bones.May I please ask they said possible tumor on her knee?which knee and was it removed or something?Could they tell?Do they know for sure this was a womans high school graduation ring?I was actually looking at a different Jane Doe found and was a bit confused.Wasn't this Jane Doe found at Robert E Lee school?

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/mpch/UnidentifiedDetails.asp?id=U0310045


Do you have an email address of who I could write to check this Jane Doe with my sister?i don't think the possibility is very high it is my sister.I just want to check.


I'm curious what men graduated in this year.Do you know?If the ring was resized it seems like the ring was too big for a woman.But you never know.why the color blue?school color?birthstone?Did anyone ever find out if the letter L was from the school or a last name?

suzanne

[MrsG728]

there is good news! The book will be mking it's rounds, Sable. I think I could send it to you because there are pages of the juniors with their names, too. I think it's better we don't spend $75.00 on this book.

MG

[sloane]

Draft of the letter to Alumni. Need feedback and suggestions.

http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=ddjrtkt5_2chz54x
Thank you Jaded, for working on completing this letter. :angel: When do you plan to send it out? I wanted to catch you before you did to possibly clarify a few facts:

The height range is actually up to 5'4" (But yes, usually they fall in the mid-range in life).

The stone in the ring is actually a "cabochon" cut, not a faceted cut. That means it is completely smooth / "ovaled" --it doesn't have any little "cuts" in it that help it sparkle. Also you may want to put something like, "it is most likely a synthetic sapphire, or blue stone," because I'm about 95% sure it's not a natural stone. (Synthetics are common for class rings because of their affordability. They are also clearer, meaning no natural cuts, carbons, or inclusions within the stone. They would also have more likely used a synthetic, cabochon-cut stone so that the inlaid "L" was more clearly visible.) You may consider adding that it could be silver or white gold. Usually silver is marked with the 925 stamp, and that is not true of this ring to my knowledge. I know these details about the ring may seem trivial, but I just wanted you to know what is really there, and what isn't.:)

And lastly, we DO NOT have a time of death, so I think we maybe should not use the word IMPOSSIBLE when we say the ring couldn't be hers. Sadly, She very likely could have been out there since the seventies...

Thanks so much,

[RKnowley]

Hi Sable,

You probably have this information already but thought I'd pass it on anyhow just in case. This is the page for the 1974 REL (Houston) Class reunion planning that has some contact information. I don't know if the contact information is current since the reunion was held in 2004 but it's worth a shot. They may have a copy of the yb they are willing to scan the juniors section for us.

http://www.relee-houston-74.com/pages/3/index.htm

Yeah, and that's the only one I've been able to find. :( Paying $75 for the 1975 yearbook...maybe. But not the 1974 yearbook. Instead, I think I'll try to find someone with a 1974 yearbook who would be willing to at least make some scans of the juniors section for us.

[sloane]

Oh, sorry, Jaded,
There is one more thing::p

I posted earlier today that there was indeed a recent forensic anthropological analysis done on PB...so, in fact, her ethnicity / ancestral background HAS been determined. Can you change that part of the letter to reflect this news, please? It is my strong suggestion that, to be the most accurate, and at the same time, thorough enough to not leave out any possible matches, that you should have it read "Caucasian, with the possibility of mixed-race history." That is vague enough to cover what we need covered, but not limiting it to Hispanic tendencies, bec. that is not a fact. It IS a fact that she has been forensically classified as Caucasian!

"TIA" (look, you guys are getting me hooked on the abbreviations!)

[sloane]

Btw, FWIW, I too have tried to submit a previous case to an Unidentifieds' site in Louisiana, and was told they DO NOT have a state wide system in place for such. Seems crazy to me that one wouldn't be in place by now, with all the missing and unid. cases, but, true enough, there isn't. It's not to say that there may not be private or volunteer ones up and running...like this, I suppose. Sounds like some of you are trying to find those...

best,

[sloane]

richandfamous,
Your "crazy dog" signature pic is HILARIOUS! I like your sense of humor!:eek:

[LionRun]

Oh, sorry, Jaded,
There is one more thing::p

I posted earlier today that there was indeed a recent forensic anthropological analysis done on PB...so, in fact, her ethnicity / ancestral background HAS been determined. Can you change that part of the letter to reflect this news, please? It is my strong suggestion that, to be the most accurate, and at the same time, thorough enough to not leave out any possible matches, that you should have it read "Caucasian, with the possibility of mixed-race history." That is vague enough to cover what we need covered, but not limiting it to Hispanic tendencies, bec. that is not a fact. It IS a fact that she has been forensically classified as Caucasian!

"TIA" (look, you guys are getting me hooked on the abbreviations!)

Hi sloane:). I understand that you think that Princess Blue may have been out there since the mid 70's(1975 or beyond). But, how would that explain that there was viable bone marrow left in at least 1 bone? How would that marrow have been preserved for soooo long?

Lion

[LionRun]

Hi
Thankyou.I care is my board.It is dedicated to my missing sister Tammy Lynn Leppert.She came up missing in 1983.May I please say some things and ask some questions.Some one here said she could have been lighter complected and lighter hair.I am having this problem with trying to find a match with skeletal remains and my sister.My sister has dyed blond hair and has some indian in her.So if I find skeletal remains and they say the skeletal remains are hispanic or indian people will think of the Jane Doe as dark complected and not look into tammy which is very frustrating.The Jane Doe might not have been dark complected and look nothing at all like this sketch.But you never know.This Jane Doe could be part indian also.Probably mostly white.If they are saying that then she probably had lighter brown hair.They usually say hispanic or indian I believe of the high cheek bones.May I please ask they said possible tumor on her knee?which knee and was it removed or something?Could they tell?Do they know for sure this was a womans high school graduation ring?I was actually looking at a different Jane Doe found and was a bit confused.Wasn't this Jane Doe found at Robert E Lee school?

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/mpch/UnidentifiedDetails.asp?id=U0310045


Do you have an email address of who I could write to check this Jane Doe with my sister?i don't think the possibility is very high it is my sister.I just want to check.


I'm curious what men graduated in this year.Do you know?If the ring was resized it seems like the ring was too big for a woman.But you never know.why the color blue?school color?birthstone?Did anyone ever find out if the letter L was from the school or a last name?

suzanne

Hello suzannec:), and welcome to our thread! I am sorry that you are still looking for your sister, Tammy, after all these years.

I understand that we cannot overlook any missing girls or young women because we have in our heads that she was Hispanic or White/Hispanic with dark hair, dark eyes, and darker than a fair skin complexion. It is likely that it is true; but, since it is not a fact, I am looking primarily at facial structure of pics of those who went missing. I knew it would be natural for most people to unconsciously focus on only those with darker features, which is why I brought it up. I am sorry you have encountered similar issues in finding Tammy.

Sloane indicates that Princess Blue could have been as tall as 5' 4", and I have always included the missing with 5" 4" in my search parameters. I doubt that she would be any taller than that though or the height estimate based of her bones would have been way off.

Princess Blue was not found at Robert E Lee HS. However, she was wearing a 1975 HS ring from that school. It is clearly a ladies ring. I spoke with a rep from The Texas Missing Persons ClearingHouse who said that it was definitely a ladies ring. Also, we compared Princes Blue's ring with a 1975 men's ring, and the difference between the two is marked. The inlaid, "L" is very likely to stand for the mascot, Lee himself as told to me by the current school librarian who has worked there since 1988 and graduated from there herself in 1980.

I am going to look at Tammy's info on the site now. I'll be back.

Lion

[suzannec4444]

Hi
thankyou.I tried to contact someone about tammy on this.There would have been bone marrow if it was taken from her teeth.That's a real good question.I'm sorry I am confused was her ring sized up or down?are they stating it was a size 9 and half ring then resized up or down or it was 9 and a half after it was resized.Do you know the size of her other rings.She was probably pretty big.

suzanne

[LionRun]

Btw, FWIW, I too have tried to submit a previous case to an Unidentifieds' site in Louisiana, and was told they DO NOT have a state wide system in place for such. Seems crazy to me that one wouldn't be in place by now, with all the missing and unid. cases, but, true enough, there isn't. It's not to say that there may not be private or volunteer ones up and running...like this, I suppose. Sounds like some of you are trying to find those...

best,

I figured this out when my searches for LA missing/UID sites went nowhere. What bothers me is that when I spoke to the person at the state crime lab I got the impression that they didn't see that is was important to have one. In my opinion they are way behind the times on this. This is irritating because it can mess things up in many searches for many of the missing/UID--and not just in LA. Sometimes things like this just bug me.

Lion

[MrsG728]

I figured this out when my searches for LA missing/UID sites went nowhere. What bothers me is that when I spoke to the person at the state crime lab I got the impression that they didn't see that is was important to have one. In my opinion they are way behind the times on this. This is irritating because it can mess things up in many searches for many of the missing/UID--and not just in LA. Sometimes things like this just bug me.

Lion
I agree, it's so important to have one, otherwise how can we all possibly connect? Sometimes it's so frustrating just because of the sheer numbers. I am sure they're swamped, too!

MG

[LaWanda]

Do you know the size of her other rings.She was probably pretty big.

I am a "lurker" here but wanted to chime in. I am a "big girl" but ... my ring size on my ring finger is a 6.5/7, so you can't really go by someone's ring size, as to their body size. Or maybe im unique and not the norm. LOL =)

[Jaded]

sloane, I have changed the vital statistics parameters of the letter to reflect the information you provided. I'm not going to send off to anyone until we all agree to whom the letter is to be sent, and that our information is as thorough as possible. Thanks so very much for providing this valuable information.

[RKnowley]

I think I probably ruled out Angela Rose as being our Princess Blue. I think she went back home, got married and had several children. Hopefully that is the case :)

[LionRun]

Hi
thankyou.I tried to contact someone about tammy on this.There would have been bone marrow if it was taken from her teeth.That's a real good question.I'm sorry I am confused was her ring sized up or down?are they stating it was a size 9 and half ring then resized up or down or it was 9 and a half after it was resized.Do you know the size of her other rings.She was probably pretty big.

suzanne

Hi suzanne. We don't know if the ring was re-sized up or down. There is someone trying to find out the size of the other rings; however, I don't know yet if that person will be successful or not. I am hoping we can find out the ring sizes because they culd be a clue to her true weight. Then again, they may not be.

We have a member, Aprilvic, who wrote this in post 54 on the first thread at http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1417452#post1417452

[quote=AprilvicJust trying to figure it out. Did LE say that they thought she weighed around 175? Or is it just a guess b/c of the ring? I am 115 pounds, but I have really big fingers. My ring finger is an 8, and my index finger is a 9 1/2. I have always hated my hands for this fact :crazy:
I wore my h.s. boyfriends ring on my thumb, so that me be a thought too.
Anyway, I am just saying she may have been like me and just had big fingers! snip[/quote]

It is also possible that Princess had a joint or bone disease/condition which resulted in larger fingers. So, we just don't know; but, I sure do wish we knew more about what her weight was. Like I said before, if she were heavy in 1990 or especially in the 70's, she would been likely to have been noticed and possibly remembered. Being overweight or obese was a lot less common back then. And, looking for a possible, "missing" match for someone when we don't know what their weight in life was makes things more complicated.

Sloane stated in a recent post that it is not likely that Princess Blue weighed as much as 175LB. I am hoping that we can find further updated info, perhaps on the TX dps site resulting from the reported recent forensic anthropologist's examination.


Lion

[LionRun]

I agree, it's so important to have one, otherwise how can we all possibly connect? Sometimes it's so frustrating just because of the sheer numbers. I am sure they're swamped, too!

MG

And, can you imagine how messed up things are since Katrina? However, had they had an organized state based system for keeping track of missing/UID's prior to Katrina, they may be have been better off at this point. It is a shame, really. For that matter there is no accurate, all inclusive Nationally based site for missing/UID's. It is needed as of----yesterday.

Lion

[LionRun]

I am a "lurker" here but wanted to chime in. I am a "big girl" but ... my ring size on my ring finger is a 6.5/7, so you can't really go by someone's ring size, as to their body size. Or maybe im unique and not the norm. LOL =)

Thank you LaWanda:). I think that many or even most people's ring size may be a fairly good, albeit rough estimate of weight. However, there are so many exceptions that we cannot assume her weight just from her rings size.

Lion

[Sable]

I wonder if the librarian would help us out? Either by scanning and e-mailing copies of the 1974 juniors, or by scanning and snail mailing the copies to one of us. I could send her an SASE for her to mail the copies in if she's willing to help us out with this. Is there an e-mail address available for the librarian?

[LionRun]

I wonder if the librarian would help us out? Either by scanning and e-mailing copies of the 1974 juniors, or by scanning and snail mailing the copies to one of us. I could send her an SASE for her to mail the copies in if she's willing to help us out with this. Is there an e-mail address available for the librarian?

Hi Sable. I have the librarian's full name and the number for her direct line. I spoke with her for several minutes and in a fair amount of detail a few weeks ago. I asked her how we could get info on the YB, and she said that we could come in and copy the yb pages. She didn't offer to copy them for me, though I did tell her that it was a 4 hour drive for me to go there. I was told that they are short handed in the library since the head librarian recently retired. Perhaps that is why she did not offer to copy the pages for me. I don't know. I could call her and ask her to go the extra mile and copy the pages; but, I feel a little uncomfortable doing this. What do you or other members think?

OT: From your previous post, I agree and think it is very wise for you to hold off on the letter the the reasons you gave. We really need for the letter to cover all bases and be as factual and inclusive as possible. Thank you so much, Sable:blowkiss:.

Lion

[suzannec4444]

Hi
I usually come here to see matches for my sister.I read through all the post here and I would like to say I think it is very sweet of you all to pull together like you have to find out who princess blue is.

suzanne

[LionRun]

Hi
I usually come here to see matches for my sister.I read through all the post here and I would like to say I think it is very sweet of you all to pull together like you have to find out who princess blue is.

suzanne

Thank you suzanne:). And, I hope and pray that you one day find your dear sister, Tammy.

Lion

[teonspaleprincess]

Hi all, sorry that I haven't been on much to help out but I have been really busy with work and the kids. I have been composing a list of missing persons sites by state and will post it as soon as I am completed. You all are doing such a great job, I have every confidence that we will break this case and bring our Princess Blue back to her family.

[Aprilvic]

Wow, I was just going to write almost exactly what Kym did. I wish I could help more, but have beer really busy.
Just wanted to send some encouragement. With this many intelligent and caring people I know Princess Blue will be identified soon!
Great work everyone!
April

[RKnowley]

April, You been busy with the beer? LOL

Wow, I was just going to write almost exactly what Kym did. I wish I could help more, but have beer really busy.
Just wanted to send some encouragement. With this many intelligent and caring people I know Princess Blue will be identified soon!
Great work everyone!
April

[jodierenee]

i live in houston and I might be able to go to the high school and scan the yearbook
. It won't be this weekend, but maybe some time next week.

[suzannec4444]

Hi
Thankyou.you are sweet to say that.Princess blue really doesn't sound like my sister.I really pray they find out who she is.you all are doing a great job trying to find out who she is.DON"T give up ok?

suzanne

[RKnowley]

This is interesting about resizing rings. So I take it that perhaps this is how they would know that Princess Blue's ring had been resized 2 times? It most likely it was resized larger both times? If it was made smaller would there only be one join?

To enlarge a ring, the shank is cut and a piece of new stock is soldered in place. If the ring has been previously resized larger and already has two joins, the jeweler will remove the previously inserted piece and insert in its place a new, longer piece. The resized ring will thus continue to have two and only two, joins. The quality depends on workmanship (how well the cut ends were rendered plane, parallel, and aligned), and upon how closely the new piece matches the original alloy used in the ring; a large shop is likely to have a greater selection than a small one.

ETA: I still wonder what finger the class ring was on. My wedding ring on my "wedding ring" finger won't fit on the same finger on my right hand. My right hand ring finger is bigger.

Source: http://www.sizes.com/people/rings.htm

[sloane]

Nice research, RKnowley!

[RKnowley]

Thank you sloane. Do you think I'm understanding that right?

Nice research, RKnowley!

[InterestedNHelping]

I have been reading your posts with interest for some time. You all seem very dedicated to your quest. As a fellow sleuther, I have a different angle that does not seem to be addressed here. I am feeling that for some reason or another, you may want to proceed with caution, as perhaps the original owner of the ring, may have something to do with princess Blue and her death...its just a potential problem down the road, that you could scare a suspect considerably into hiding, when they are found out through the ring...a hypothesis I had been thinking of, but hope I am wrong, just wanted my fellow sleuthers to be careful and cared for!
Good luck and good research, I await more from all of you good researchers!

[RKnowley]

Hi Interested, good to see you here. Thank you for thinking of us all and warning us to be cautious. We will do our best. I figure if they have been in hiding for over 17 years this might scare them out of hiding? Who knows but we have to try what we can to bring Princess Blue home where she belongs. The ring is the best option right now.

I have been reading your posts with interest for some time. You all seem very dedicated to your quest. As a fellow sleuther, I have a different angle that does not seem to be addressed here. I am feeling that for some reason or another, you may want to proceed with caution, as perhaps the original owner of the ring, may have something to do with princess Blue and her death...its just a potential problem down the road, that you could scare a suspect considerably into hiding, when they are found out through the ring...a hypothesis I had been thinking of, but hope I am wrong, just wanted my fellow sleuthers to be careful and cared for!
Good luck and good research, I await more from all of you good researchers!

[richandfamous]

I have been reading your posts with interest for some time. You all seem very dedicated to your quest. As a fellow sleuther, I have a different angle that does not seem to be addressed here. I am feeling that for some reason or another, you may want to proceed with caution, as perhaps the original owner of the ring, may have something to do with princess Blue and her death...its just a potential problem down the road, that you could scare a suspect considerably into hiding, when they are found out through the ring...a hypothesis I had been thinking of, but hope I am wrong, just wanted my fellow sleuthers to be careful and cared for!
Good luck and good research, I await more from all of you good researchers!

Yes, we thought of that and we are ready!
http://www.geocities.com/movieinspiration/dog_wild_wolf.jpg
and welcome to ws!

[LionRun]

This is interesting about resizing rings. So I take it that perhaps this is how they would know that Princess Blue's ring had been resized 2 times? It most likely it was resized larger both times? If it was made smaller would there only be one join?

To enlarge a ring, the shank is cut and a piece of new stock is soldered in place. If the ring has been previously resized larger and already has two joins, the jeweler will remove the previously inserted piece and insert in its place a new, longer piece. The resized ring will thus continue to have two and only two, joins. The quality depends on workmanship (how well the cut ends were rendered plane, parallel, and aligned), and upon how closely the new piece matches the original alloy used in the ring; a large shop is likely to have a greater selection than a small one.

ETA: I still wonder what finger the class ring was on. My wedding ring on my "wedding ring" finger won't fit on the same finger on my right hand. My right hand ring finger is bigger.

Source: http://www.sizes.com/people/rings.htm

Hi RKnowley:). Great research! I am thinking, too that if it were re-sized down a piece would have been cut out on the under side of the band. Then it would have been pushed together and soldered--hence one joint. If it were re-sized up there should in fact be two joints as per your research. But, how would one tell if it were re-sized twice? The only thing that I can think of is that there may be evidence of two different alloys from two times that the ring was soldered. If that is the case than only an assumption can be made that it was re-sized twice. It may have been re-sized once, it failed, and had to soldered again.

Lion

[LionRun]

Yes, we thought of that and we are ready!
http://www.geocities.com/movieinspiration/dog_wild_wolf.jpg
and welcome to ws!

Bedangit! That is one cool wolf!

Lion

[RKnowley]

I dunno. Maybe they could tell by where the join marks were on the ring?? If it was only resized once and then it failed the join mark may be closer to the original join mark than if it had been resized again. Just guessing there though.

ETA: I need a donut to practice ring resizing on :-D

Hi RKnowley:). Great research! I am thinking, too that if it were re-sized down a piece would have been cut out on the under side of the band. Then it would have been pushed together and soldered--hence one joint. If it were re-sized up there should in fact be two joints as per your research. But, how would one tell if it were re-sized twice? The only thing that I can think of is that there may be evidence of two different alloys from two times that the ring was soldered. If that is the case than only an assumption can be made that it was re-sized twice. It may have been re-sized once, it failed, and had to soldered again.

Lion

[LionRun]

I have been reading your posts with interest for some time. You all seem very dedicated to your quest. As a fellow sleuther, I have a different angle that does not seem to be addressed here. I am feeling that for some reason or another, you may want to proceed with caution, as perhaps the original owner of the ring, may have something to do with princess Blue and her death...its just a potential problem down the road, that you could scare a suspect considerably into hiding, when they are found out through the ring...a hypothesis I had been thinking of, but hope I am wrong, just wanted my fellow sleuthers to be careful and cared for!
Good luck and good research, I await more from all of you good researchers!

Hi Interested! Welcome to the thread! I have thought about the remote chance that one of us could run into the killer. It is a risk of doing things like this. I try to be as careful as I can. I think Princess was found with no clothes on or otherwise a clothing description should have been on the TX dps site. I could be wrong. I also tend to think that in cases where a girl or woman is dumped nude that the killer was not usually closely related to the victim. i know there may be exceptions. But, I hope I am right about that, "tend" thing. I sure don't want to meet the killer:eek:. Thank you for reminding me that there are risks.

Lion

[RKnowley]

Lion, did you see my message on the spreadsheet about Melinda Chernosky? You stated 4/13 she wasn't in the yb but on the classmates.com alumni list.

[Jaded]

Hi Interested! Welcome to the thread! I have thought about the remote chance that one of us could run into the killer. It is a risk of doing things like this. I try to be as careful as I can. I think Princess was found with no clothes on or otherwise a clothing description should have been on the TX dps site. I could be wrong. I also tend to think that in cases where a girl or woman is dumped nude that the killer was not usually closely related to the victim. i know there may be exceptions. But, I hope I am right about that, "tend" thing. I sure don't want to meet the killer:eek:. Thank you for reminding me that there are risks.

Lion

I agree that we all need to be vigilant in protecting ourselves, and should be using an email address that does not contain our names. If you all would like, I can let you use email addresses yourname@someoneknowsme.com. It's easy to set up in your outlook, and you can put an initial for your last name as I do when not using my personal email address. I think I have unlimited emails on the site.

[RKnowley]

With a good old common surname as mine they'll never find me, lol :eek:


I agree that we all need to be vigilant in protecting ourselves, and should be using an email address that does not contain our names. If you all would like, I can let you use email addresses yourname@someoneknowsme.com. It's easy to set up in your outlook, and you can put an initial for your last name as I do when not using my personal email address. I think I have unlimited emails on the site.

[LionRun]

Lion, did you see my message on the spreadsheet about Melinda Chernosky? You stated 4/13 she wasn't in the yb but on the classmates.com alumni list.

Yes, I just took a look at your notes. Excellent job figuring out what happened. It seems she does belong there.

Lion

[RKnowley]

Do you think we should delete her and then MrsG can add her under her maiden name where she belongs or just move her down to where she belongs and change her last name to her maiden name?

Yes, I just took a look at your notes. Excellent job figuring out what happened. It seems she does belong there.

Lion

[suzannec4444]

Hi
I don't think the police will really work with you.I think your best results would be to work directly with someone in the Harris county medical examiners office.Talk to someone personally on the phone and keep calling untill they answer you.

suzanne

[LionRun]

Do you think we should delete her and then MrsG can add her under her maiden name where she belongs or just move her down to where she belongs and change her last name to her maiden name?

I think we might want to put her where she corresponds in the yearbook. Perhaps we should keep records of maiden and all married names. We never know when we might need them. maybe we can put maiden names in brackets and married names not in brackets. Then, we would have access to all names on the same page but, instantly know what she went by in HS and can easily match her to her yb pic. What do you think?

Also, I have been trying with no success for days to find how long bone marrow remains viable to test for drugs and for DNA in skeletal remains if the remains were out in the open in a climate similar to Houston. I am having no luck. If I can figure that out we might have an idea on whether or not it would be possible that Princess Blue was the original owner of the ring or not. Since there is now no TOD, she could have been killed around 75 or in the late 70's, and she could have been a student at REL.

I am also trying to find out which female students have not yet been accounted for and questioned. Then we would know who to concentrate on first. I'll keep everyone posted if I can find out anything.

Lion

[RKnowley]

I wonder if you were to contact a forensic anthropologist or forensic pathologist (find one off the web) if they would be able to tell you that information?


Also, I have been trying with no success for days to find how long bone marrow remains viable to test for drugs and for DNA in skeletal remains if the remains were out in the open in a climate similar to Houston. I am having no luck. If I can figure that out we might have an idea on whether or not it would be possible that Princess Blue was the original owner of the ring or not. Since there is now no TOD, she could have been killed around 75 or in the late 70's, and she could have been a student at REL.

Lion

[Sable]

Also, I have been trying with no success for days to find how long bone marrow remains viable to test for drugs and for DNA in skeletal remains if the remains were out in the open in a climate similar to Houston. I am having no luck. If I can figure that out we might have an idea on whether or not it would be possible that Princess Blue was the original owner of the ring or not. Since there is now no TOD, she could have been killed around 75 or in the late 70's, and she could have been a student at REL.
Isn't it possible to extract DNA from a tooth?

I saw a TV show where someone was thought to be a relative of someone who died on the Titanic. At least, I think it was the Titanic. I know the person had died long ago and they decided to try to test the deceased person's DNA against the potential relatives which confirmed they were related. So I think maybe it's possible to extract DNA long after a person dies, not just within a few years.

[RKnowley]

Is that the same way they would test the bone marrow for drugs? Would they test the tooth in that manner?

Isn't it possible to extract DNA from a tooth?

I saw a TV show where someone was thought to be a relative of someone who died on the Titanic. At least, I think it was the Titanic. I know the person had died long ago and they decided to try to test the deceased person's DNA against the potential relatives which confirmed they were related. So I think maybe it's possible to extract DNA long after a person dies, not just within a few years.

[Sable]

Is that the same way they would test the bone marrow for drugs? Would they test the tooth in that manner?
I have no idea if it's possible to test for drugs by using teeth. I have a busy day tomorrow, but tomorrow night I'll try to research it a little further if nobody else has an answer to that question.

[richandfamous]

http://www.fsijournal.org/article/PIIS0379073804004207/abstract

We extracted the DNA contained in samples of bones and teeth from 10 skeletons excavated from the Gravette site (400–1000 AD, south of France). Ancient DNA was analysed by autosomal short tandem repeats (STRs). The DNA present in these ancient remains appeared very degraded, but nevertheless, better conserved in tooth than in bone samples. Moreover, we showed that the DNA extracted from ancient dental pulp was not exempt from polymerase chain reaction (PCR) inhibitors, which could result from extreme DNA fragmentation. An adapted protocol with a supplementary step of purification removed this inhibition.


400 AD...if they can get dna from those skeletons, they can surely get dna from a few years old. I also heard that dna can be found in the wisdom teeth in young ppl. They are still in the jaw bone.

[RKnowley]

Thanks Sable! :)

I have no idea if it's possible to test for drugs by using teeth. I have a busy day tomorrow, but tomorrow night I'll try to research it a little further if nobody else has an answer to that question.

[LionRun]

Thanks friends:). In particular I was wondering if bone marrow would be viable to test for drugs after 15 years of the skeletal remains being left out in the elements in the humid, warm climate of the Houston area. It is stated that there was no evidence of drugs found in Princess's bone marrow. So we can assume there was viable marrow for testing. The environment in which skeletal remains are kept has an influence on how long the marrow remains viable. The environment also plays a key role in the rate of decomp of the the bones. Eventually bones do rot--depending on how they have been kept. This link
http://www.anthro4n6.net/forensics/#TOD

is helpful. But, I need to know more. If I could get an answer from LE as to what was found in what condition perhaps I wouldn't have to wrack my brains so much.

In cases where bone marrow has been extracted from bones years after the person died the body was usually preserved somehow--even naturally by being buried and becoming mummified in a hot, dry area. Or, in cases where the body was frozen for hundreds or even thousands of years there is preservation of tissues enough to test for various things.

But, concerning a body lying outside, unprotected, in the humid, Houston area I would expect a particular rate of bone and soft tissue (eventually even marrow) decay. I just can't find research on it. If I can show that it is possible to extract viable bone marrow for the testing of drugs in remains kept out in the open in the Houston area of TX, 15 years after death, then our Princess may have gone to REL and graduated in 1975. That would narrow our search significantly. HS grads rarely wear their HS rings more than a couple of years or so after their graduation--especially back then when all HS rings looked like HS rings. These days HS rings are designed to sometimes not even look like HS rings, and I can see HS grads wearing them for longer. But not back then. So if Princess were from back then it shouldn't be that difficult to narrow down who she might be. For example, we could focus on female students who have no further records(marriage, addresses) after about 1980. Then we could try to track them down.

Another issue is the fact that her ring was found on her skeletonized finger. In the case of a body being left out the open there shouldn't be any small bones left, let alone being found intact with a ring till on it after a certain number of years in that climate. But, we don't know how her bones were found--except that her skull was in a tire. Where was the rest of her remains found? How were they found? Did they have reason to think that her remains had been previously preserved somehow? We don't know.

I was trying to narrow down the possibilities of when she died. An unknown TOD is a challenge to work with. And, I don't understand why there is no TOD. They went from a precise 6 months-1 year to unknown on the TX dps site. That is a huge leap. To me that makes no sense--unless I know more. Why if a forensic anthropologist recently did a work up on Princess Doe would there be no new estimate for the TOD?

Sorry for this long, drawn out post. I hope I didn't give anyone a headache.

[suzannec4444]

Hi
Also are there any old newspaper articles of when she was first found?

suzanne

[LionRun]

Hi
Also are there any old newspaper articles of when she was first found?

suzanne

Good morning suzanne:). That is a very good question. I know that, The Houston Chronicle" was in circulation at that time; however, Manvel is south of Houston, and her story may or may not have made it to that paper. I have been trying to do a search of bodies found from 1975 to 1990 anywhere in the Houston area. I only found the one article that we have posted on our site. Who knows? There may be some article somewhere that we haven't found yet. I sure would love more info on her. But, it has been so long, and info has a tendency to dry up over time--if there was any to begin with. I will keep looking though.

Lion

[LionRun]

Hi
Also are there any old newspaper articles of when she was first found?

suzanne

I am glad you asked that question, suzanne. So far I found this. Sgt. Coffman of Manvel PD has these cases on his already big case load. It turns out there are at least 2 UID females, one is Princess Blue, and the other was found 3 years later. Both were found about 1 mile from the police dept.

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=local&id=4680827&ft=med

"....Sgt. Coffman said, "It makes it very difficult, because sometimes there are wounds that they sustained that we're not able to determine."
There are two other unsolved cases. Those both involve women victims. Their skeletal remains were found in 1990 and 1993. Both of them were just about a mile from the police department. If you have any information on any of these cases, you're asked to call the Manvel police....snip"

The Manvel PD is located at
19701 Morris Ave (also known possibly as Texas 6)
Manvel, TX 77578

We already know from previous reports that Princess Blue was found off a country road in Brazoria County, more specifically in the town of Manvel. It was also described as a known dump site. If both skeletal remains were found within about 1 mile of the Manvel PD they may have been found near each other. It is possible that they were dumped at about the same place, about 3 years apart. I wonder if there is a possible connection. Manvel was and still is a small town. It may be unusual to find two female bodies near to each other that are not connected. I am going to research further.

ETA: I cannot find any info for the female's skeletal remains found in 1993. I cannot find her on the doenetwork or the NCMA site or the TX dps site.

I took a good, long look though, at the UID's for the Houston area including Harris County, League City, Brazoria County, and Manvel. There sure seems to be a number of young women and teen UID's found in those areas in the 80's and early 90's. Perhaps this is typical for a large city like Houston. But, it seems like there a number of similar cases. In the case of Princess Blue and in at least one other case bodies with similar descriptions were found in the exact same areas.

I am doing this research while waiting to start working on the yb. I don't mean to refocus the investigation in a direction other than finding Princess Blue's ID. But, once I read that there was another UID girl or woman found right near where Princess was found 3 years later, in the small town of Manvel, I wanted to see if there might be a connection.

Lion

[MrsG728]

Do you think we should delete her and then MrsG can add her under her maiden name where she belongs or just move her down to where she belongs and change her last name to her maiden name?

Yes I think I should really mpve her down to her maiden name as suggested :) Who knows, she may have been known by her new name so long, that's how they listed her. Good looking out guys.

I love reading people's comments, suggestions, and zebra ideas on this... it's been so interesting and I feel like I am lurking again.

MG

[MrsG728]

The Manvel PD is located at
19701 Morris Ave (also known possibly as Texas 6)
Manvel, TX 77578


ETA: I cannot find any info for the female's skeletal remains found in 1993. I cannot find her on the doenetwork or the NCMA site or the TX dps site.

I took a good, long look though, at the UID's for the Houston area including Harris County, League City, Brazoria County, and Manvel. There sure seems to be a number of young women and teen UID's found in those areas in the 80's and early 90's. Perhaps this is typical for a large city like Houston. But, it seems like there a number of similar cases. In the case of Princess Blue and in at least one other case bodies with similar descriptions were found in the exact same areas.

I am doing this research while waiting to start working on the yb. I don't mean to refocus the investigation in a direction other than finding Princess Blue's ID. But, once I read that there was another UID girl or woman found right near where Princess was found 3 years later, in the small town of Manvel, I wanted to see if there might be a connection.

Lion

Lion

Awesome info, Lion. Did Coffman give you any address for the dump site? still looking to "google earth" it!

[RKnowley]

This site somewhat goes into the details of the missing girls around Harris County, TX

http://www.crimesearch.net/Page2.html

[teonspaleprincess]

The medical examiner in Washington is very nice, I have spoken to her before regarding a case, maybe I can give her a call and ask her some questions about DNA and marrow if someone wants to send me a list of what needs to be asked. I am off Tueday and can do it then or Monday after 4pm.

[Jaded]

This site somewhat goes into the details of the missing girls around Harris County, TX

http://www.crimesearch.net/Page2.html

There are a few girls on there whose bodies were never found. How far is this from where Princess Blue was found?

[RKnowley]

Princess Blue was found inside the V area that the 2 roads form (Highway 6 and I-45S) She was found a little closer to SH288 than #8 & #9 victims but further north going towards I-45S. That map doesn't show the Manvel road but if you google Galveston, TX a map will come up and you will see the roads (Hwy 6 & I45S) that form the V. Follow Hwy 6 northwest (I hope that's right. I don't do maps well, lol) and you will run into Manvel (to get to Manvel you head north off of Hwy 6).

There are a few girls on there whose bodies were never found. How far is this from where Princess Blue was found?

[Jaded]

I think we need to ask LE if all missing women from 1975 - 1989 have been ruled out, since they have recently adjusted the TOD to undetermined. Thoughts?

[RKnowley]

I agree. I had thought about FAXing LE in the surrounding counties with Princess Blue's new information and asking them to review missing persons cases to see if any fit Princess Blue's stats. What do you think?

I think we need to ask LE if all missing women from 1975 - 1989 have been ruled out, since they have recently adjusted the TOD to undetermined. Thoughts?

[LionRun]

The medical examiner in Washington is very nice, I have spoken to her before regarding a case, maybe I can give her a call and ask her some questions about DNA and marrow if someone wants to send me a list of what needs to be asked. I am off Tueday and can do it then or Monday after 4pm.

Thank you teons. The exact questions are:

Is it possible for there to be bone marrow that can be tested for drugs in 1990 which was extracted from skeletal remains of a body that was dumped out in the open in the Houston, TX area(temperate climate with bouts of heat and humidity), in 1975?

Also, for how long can bone barrow still be viable for the testing of drugs if the body is dumped out in the open in the Houston, TX area (temperate climate with bouts of heat and humidity)?

Lion

[LionRun]

I think we need to ask LE if all missing women from 1975 - 1989 have been ruled out, since they have recently adjusted the TOD to undetermined. Thoughts?

I totally agree. And, that is why I am trying to get the question about the bone marrow answered. That might help to confirm whether or not it was possible that Princess Blue was killed from 1975 to 1990.

Perhaps I can call Brazoria County Sheriff's Office on Monday.

Lion

[LionRun]

I agree. I had thought about FAXing LE in the surrounding counties with Princess Blue's new information and asking them to review missing persons cases to see if any fit Princess Blue's stats. What do you think?

Excellent idea RKnowley(as usual!:)). And, perhaps you could ask each one to fax the info to any other LE agencies they can think of, too.

Lion

[LionRun]

Princess Blue was found inside the V area that the 2 roads form (Highway 6 and I-45S) She was found a little closer to SH288 than #8 & #9 victims but further north going towards I-45S. That map doesn't show the Manvel road but if you google Galveston, TX a map will come up and you will see the roads (Hwy 6 & I45S) that form the V. Follow Hwy 6 northwest (I hope that's right. I don't do maps well, lol) and you will run into Manvel (to get to Manvel you head north off of Hwy 6).


Manvel PD is located on TX 6 aka Morris Ave.

From the 3 different maps I have, it seems that 8 and 9 were found possibly within 1 or so miles from the Manvel PD(19701 Morris Ave aka Texas 6). I am thinking that we have this right. I am not positive--but how many female UID's would a small town have in the same area for goodness sake?

ETA:
http://www.crimesearch.net/Page2.html

Brooks Bracewell(#8) and Georgia Geer(#9), ages 12 and 14, disappeared possibly from a convenience store on 9/6/74 in Dickenson(about 30 miles east of Manvel), TX and were found at points 8 and 9 on that map.

When I look at where 8 and 9 are on the map it does appear the dump site is located in or very near Manvel. Remember when we read that Princess Blue's body was found in a known dump site, and that at one point about a body a month was being dumped in that area. It seems some are still UID's and some of the missing may have never been found--just like Jaded pointed out. This is what I was noticing when I too a good long look at the UID's from the 80's and early 90's. It seems this may go back to the mid 70's--thanks to what RKnowley has found.

I would like to find more info in every direction from the missing stats to the UID stats in the entire area to look for a more defined pattern--if one exists. It could be that there was one or more serial killers operating in that area for a number of years. Some of the cases are probably not related; but, at first glance it seems some might be related.

Lion

[RKnowley]

I will get started on that now. How many counties over from Harris & Brazoria counties do you think I should include? Just those bordering them or should I include more than that?

Excellent idea RKnowley(as usual!:)). And, perhaps you could ask each one to fax the info to any other LE agencies they can think of, too.

Lion

[RKnowley]

It does seem like those cases would have to be connected in some way. Wouldn't you think?

Manvel PD is located on TX 6 aka Morris Ave.

From the 3 different maps I have, it seems that 8 and 9 were found possibly within 1 or so miles from the Manvel PD(19701 Morris Ave aka Texas 6). I am thinking that we have this right. I am not positive--but how many female UID's would a small town have in the same area for goodness sake?

Lion

[SadieMae]

:eek: I am soooo far behind reading this thread!!! :eek: You all are working fast. Will jump back in after I get caught up.

[LionRun]

There are a few girls on there whose bodies were never found. How far is this from where Princess Blue was found?

Some seem to have been found close to where Princess was found. Some are UID's still, and some have been ID'd. There are also some missing from the same area, some of which were found deceased, and some are still missing.

The person who owns this site seems to possibly indicate that there may be no coincidence that several of the missing or UID's were petite concerning height. I noticed there may be a connection, too. Also, I would be interested in knowing how many others are dumped nude(gosh, that sounds so awful, sorry) or partially nude. I would like to find anything besides that that could indicate a pattern. Already, I see that someone might be traveling all along I-45, Texas 6, and possibly highway 59(what ever it is called?). There may be more roads that show up once we find more missing/UID's for the area.

Lion





Lion

[LionRun]

I will get started on that now. How many counties over from Harris & Brazoria counties do you think I should include? Just those bordering them or should I include more than that?


Great idea RKnowley. Since it is already a large area perhaps we can start by putting Brazoria county smack in the middle and include every county that touches it in all directions like you suggested? This will give us a fair radius, yet still may not even be all inclusive. But, it is a good start. In that case the counties might be:

Brazoria County
Galveston County
Chambers County
Harris County
Fort Bend County
Wharton County
Matagorda County

[Jaded]

I agree. I had thought about FAXing LE in the surrounding counties with Princess Blue's new information and asking them to review missing persons cases to see if any fit Princess Blue's stats. What do you think?

I think that's a great idea.

I totally agree. And, that is why I am trying to get the question about the bone marrow answered. That might help to confirm whether or not it was possible that Princess Blue was killed from 1975 to 1990.

Perhaps I can call Brazoria County Sheriff's Office on Monday.

Lion

And yet another great idea. I'm just worried that since the TOD has been redetermined and they have already ruled out known missing, I don't want to duplicate their work.

[Jaded]

RICHERSON 22 10/7/88 FRI GALVESTON-CLERK AT CASA DEL MAR MOTEL BODY NOT FOUND
http://www.crimesearch.net/MISSING_GIRLS.html

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/mpch/mpdetails.asp?id='M9/20/20042:45:41PM'

[Jaded]

Some seem to have been found close to where Princess was found. Some are UID's still, and some have been ID'd. There are also some missing from the same area, some of which were found deceased, and some are still missing.

The person who owns this site seems to possibly indicate that there may be no coincidence that several of the missing or UID's were petite concerning height. I noticed there may be a connection, too. Also, I would be interested in knowing how many others are dumped nude(gosh, that sounds so awful, sorry) or partially nude. I would like to find anything besides that that could indicate a pattern. Already, I see that someone might be traveling all along I-45, Texas 6, and possibly highway 59(what ever it is called?). There may be more roads that show up once we find more missing/UID's for the area.

Lion





Lion
Or the working at a convenience store connection. Several of them were employees at either convenience stores or motel desk clerks.

ETA to add source: http://www.crimesearch.net/Fact_Page_I-45S.html

[LionRun]

I think that's a great idea.



And yet another great idea. I'm just worried that since the TOD has been redetermined and they have already ruled out known missing, I don't want to duplicate their work.

I understand and have the same concerns. Manvel PD may not have searched back as far as 1975 because they didn't think they had reason to. At this point even if they are working on it, records and reports from that far back are sketchy. We may find what we are looking for via news archives, if we find what we need at all. The good thing is that we have the ring and the YB to work with. In the meantime we can see if there are any other angles that we can look at.

Lion

[SadieMae]

Ok...caught up on the closed thread.

There was a post that the PB ring may have been a cheaper version of class rings were not gold. PB's ring was re-sized. Jewelers do not size rings that are not solid gold or brass based, or has a gold overlay. Very few will size sterling silver rings. PB's ring had to be gold, or the torch heat would melt the alloys of rings not made of gold, and they'd end of gloppy mess if a soft alloy was the base metal. Also, when making the ring bigger, they use matching Kt of gold to fill in the gap when enlarging a ring. So PB's ring had to be at least 10K gold, which was pretty standard for class rings. They could purchase a 14K, as I remember as an upgrade back then. I got a 14K, I can't wear 10K rings. The nickel alloy in gold turns my finger green.

As to the time when a class ring is usually purchased. I remember I ordered mine around Oct. (senior photos were taken around the same time) and had it by Thanksgiving. All the seniors were wearing their class rings for the rest of the school year. I'll call Balfours and ask when they usually take orders for class rings at REL, and the time frame they deliver.

[LionRun]

Or the working at a convenience store connection. Several of them were employees at either convenience stores or motel desk clerks.

ETA to add source: http://www.crimesearch.net/Fact_Page_I-45S.html


Yes, another possibility. And, there is the possibility of a killer grabbing girls/young women by pay phones, too. I don't know how reputable the man was who owns the site that we are getting the new info from. But, I was seeing some of what he was saying before that site was found. He may have been on to something.

Princess Blue's case may not have been related to any of those cases; but, it seems possible that there was a connection that we should at least check out.

Lion

[LionRun]

Ok...caught up on the closed thread.

There was a post that the PB ring may have been a cheaper version of class rings were not gold. PB's ring was re-sized. Jewelers do not size rings that are not solid gold or brass based, or has a gold overlay. Very few will size sterling silver rings. PB's ring had to be gold, or the torch heat would melt the alloys of rings not made of gold, and they'd end of gloppy mess if a soft alloy was the base metal. Also, when making the ring bigger, they use matching Kt of gold to fill in the gap when enlarging a ring. So PB's ring had to be at least 10K gold, which was pretty standard for class rings. They could purchase a 14K, as I remember as an upgrade back then. I got a 14K, I can't wear 10K rings. The nickel alloy in gold turns my finger green.

As to the time when a class ring is usually purchased. I remember I ordered mine around Oct. (senior photos were taken around the same time) and had it by Thanksgiving. All the seniors were wearing their class rings for the rest of the school year. I'll call Balfours and ask when they usually take orders for class rings at REL, and the time frame they deliver.

Hi Sadie:). Welcome back! Please give Apache a big hug from a lion friend. Thanks for the info on the rings and re-sizing.

When I spoke with the current librarian of Lee HS who also graduated from REL in 1980 she said that they ordered their rings in the Fall, and that they had their senior pics taken in the spring. She sounded pretty sure of that; but, who knows?

Lion

[SadieMae]

Apache has been the biggest pain in the a$$!! He insists on getting on my lap everytime I sit at the computer, sit on the couch, sit anywhere. He's being an absolute baby in recovery. Really difficult to see the monitor with a 140# beast squirming on your lap trying to get comfy!! I can't see over him, and I can't see around him! If I close the door, he cries and claws the door to come in. (needs to be repainted now). He's been outside with my son so I'm here for a bit.

[LionRun]

Apache has been the biggest pain in the a$$!! He insists on getting on my lap everytime I sit at the computer, sit on the couch, sit anywhere. He's being an absolute baby in recovery. Really difficult to see the monitor with a 140# beast squirming on your lap trying to get comfy!! I can't see over him, and I can't see around him! If I close the door, he cries and claws the door to come in. (needs to be repainted now). He's been outside with my son so I'm here for a bit.

Awe, I am sorry about your door. Is he having some issues with separation anxiety from staying at the Vet for several days without you?

Hey, if you happen to notice zebras as you are reading can you file them in the zebra threads on ske? You may need to start a new thread on general zebras.

Anyway, I am glad that you are back, and that Apache is doing well. Let's hope he finds another hobby besides home renovations--your doors can't take his heavy hand:eek:.

Lion

[docwho3]

Apache has been the biggest pain in the a$$!! He insists on getting on my lap everytime I sit at the computer, sit on the couch, sit anywhere. He's being an absolute baby in recovery. Really difficult to see the monitor with a 140# beast squirming on your lap trying to get comfy!! I can't see over him, and I can't see around him! If I close the door, he cries and claws the door to come in. (needs to be repainted now). He's been outside with my son so I'm here for a bit.Do you think having another chair right next to you would let her be close enough to you without being in your lap?

[SadieMae]

Awe, I am sorry about your door. Is he having some issues with separation anxiety from staying at the Vet for several days without you?

Hey, if you happen to notice zebras as you are reading can you file them in the zebra threads on ske? You may need to start a new thread on general zebras.

Anyway, I am glad that you are back, and that Apache is doing well. Let's hope he finds another hobby besides home renovations--your doors can't take his heavy hand:eek:.

Lion
I didn't even think of that!!! He's way too clingy and whiny. I thought it was because he's not feeling like himself yet. Took back to vets yesterday for some bleeding at the incision, thought he ripped some stitches, but everything is ok and normal. I have a word document I'm cutting and pasting to from posts.

Do you think having another chair right next to you would let her be close enough to you without being in your lap?

The only chair he kinda fits in is a recliner. I'm not dragging that everywhere for him. On the sofa there's plenty of room for him to sit next to me. But NOOOOO he's got to sit ON my lap.

[Jaded]

I didn't even think of that!!! He's way too clingy and whiny. I thought it was because he's not feeling like himself yet. Took back to vets yesterday for some bleeding at the incision, thought he ripped some stitches, but everything is ok and normal. I have a word document I'm cutting and pasting to from posts.



The only chair he kinda fits in is a recliner. I'm not dragging that everywhere for him. On the sofa there's plenty of room for him to sit next to me. But NOOOOO he's got to sit ON my lap.

Aw, poor guy - what kind of surgery did he have?

[LionRun]

http://www.chron.com/CDA/archives/archive.mpl?id=1993_1110407


Paper: HOUSTON CHRONICLE
Date: TUE 02/09/1993
Section: B
Page: 10
Edition: 2 STAR

Body found in bedspread

Staff

MANVEL -- Human bones found wrapped in a bedspread beside a road here are probably those of a 25-year-old woman, Police Chief John Rose said Monday.
The bones, some fractured, were found by Brazoria County Jail inmates on roadside cleaning detail near County Road 58 in northwest Manvel about 1 p.m. Sunday, Rose said.
He said it could not be determined how long the faded, flower-print bedspread had been there. It appears that the woman died elsewhere, because the bones were mixed together in the bedspread, he said. Rose added that several bones are missing.
Harris County Medical Examiner's officials said a curvature of the upper front teeth indicates the woman may have been at least partly Hispanic, Asian or American Indian, while her brown hair indicates she may also have been partly white. The woman was about 5 feet tall, Rose said.
A cause of death has not been determined.

It is possible this is the body found near to where Princess Blue's body was found. But, we don't know enough about the body reported in the 2006 article that I posted a few posts back where Sgt. Coffman speaks of an unidentified body found in 1993. Both seem to have been quite petite concerning height. And, it is possible that both were found with no evidence of clothing at the scene. If that is true, than I see those points as possibly similarities. I could be way off, though. I just don't know enough about either case-----yet.

It appears to me(per google map of both locations) that this woman's skeletal remains were found approximately within or closer than 5 miles to where our Princess Blue were found. I am finding this to be an especially questionable coincidence because of the similarities I mentioned before and that the town was so small. Again, how many unrelated cases where female skeletal remains would be found near to each other in possibly similar circumstances in a town with a population of less than 4000?



Lion

[LionRun]

This is a long, but VERY interesting article. I have a hard copy map of the Houston area, and this slime trolled areas near to where Princess Blue was found and the surrounding areas. There is no factual evidence to suggest that this creep murdered Princess Blue; but, it looks like Brazoria County and the surrounding counties may have had one or more serial killers on the hunt for there to be so many cases. This is what I began to think a few posts back. Now that I found this I am leaning more towards that as a possibility.

Note, although bodies were described below as having been dumped from 1982-1987, we can't rule Princess Blue's case out or anyone else's case out just because they were not found until 1990 or later. In some of those case the TOD is unknown. We don't don't know when they were murdered.

Please also note that I am finding very few, if any unsolved missing/UID males for the time period of between the mid 70's to the early 90's. They sure seemed to have their share of missing, UID, and identifiable female bodies in and around Brazoria County, though.

ETA: After further research I do see a few males killed and dumped. But, it is not on the same scale as the females, and most of those cases can be explained as opposed to the many unexplained cases involving females.


http://www.chron.com/CDA/archives/archive.mpl?id=1994_1203239


........They also developed a list of unsolved cases, starting with the approximately 100 women killed and dumped in Brazoria and surrounding counties from 1982 to 1987. At the time, Houston homicide Sgt. Tom Ladd said it was "unrealistic to assume that Roy Stuart will be responsible for all the unsolved murders . . . (but) it would be irresponsible not to investigate the possibility that Stuart could be linked to a number of these deaths." .....snip

Here is another article from years ago.

http://www.chron.com/CDA/archives/archive.mpl?id=1993_1156110


FBI agents specializing in psychological profiles of criminals will meet here with six law enforcement agencies this week to discuss 18 unsolved homicides -- "all of them weird," according to an FBI spokesman....snip

Lion

[suzannec4444]

Hi
I was trying to check this Jane doe too for tammy.Why wasn't this Jane Doe mentioned too?that's sad.Do you know more on her?the texas website said the estimated date of death was in 1984 in november not 1985 like the Doe network says.which is true?I tried to find out a long time ago and no one ever aswered me back.

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/343uftx.html

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/mpch/UnidentifiedDetails.asp?id=U0401001

suzanne

[LionRun]

Hi
I was trying to check this Jane doe too for tammy.Why wasn't this Jane Doe mentioned too?that's sad.Do you know more on her?the texas website said the estimated date of death was in 1984 in november not 1985 like the Doe network says.which is true?I tried to find out a long time ago and no one ever aswered me back.

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/343uftx.html

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/mpch/UnidentifiedDetails.asp?id=U0401001

suzanne

Good morning suzanne:). It seems some cases that we would think should have been looked at with possible connections either never were or the records from that long ago are sketchy. I imagine it is a combination of both.

It is hard to say for sure which is correct 84 or 85. Perhaps you can call them, let them know there is a discrepancy and ask them to please look into into it and correct it if necessary. Good catch on the discrepancy, suzanne. This could mess up things, and I hope it can be readily researched and fixed.

Lion

[suzannec4444]

Hi
thankyou.you are sweet.I am going to put this Jane Doe over in cold cases.Please help me find out who she is ok?I do think you are on to something with princess blue and the high school ring she was wearing and looking up the people who graduated.


Do you know more on her?the texas website said the estimated date of death was in 1984 in november not 1985 like the Doe network says.which is true?I tried to find out a long time ago and no one ever aswered me back.

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/343uftx.html

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/mpch/Un...sp?id=U0401001 (http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/mpch/UnidentifiedDetails.asp?id=U0401001)

suzanne

[Jaded]

I wonder (thinking aloud here again) if there aren't more missing Hispanics listed on the various LE sites because perhaps they were illegal immigrants and the family is afraid to contact LE for fear of deportation. This could really create a problem in ever identifying them. Just so sad.

[LionRun]

I wonder (thinking aloud here again) if there aren't more missing Hispanics listed on the various LE sites because perhaps they were illegal immigrants and the family is afraid to contact LE for fear of deportation. This could really create a problem in ever identifying them. Just so sad.

I imagine that is a factor in some cases, too. How very sad, I sooo agree.

Lion

[RKnowley]

HOUSTON CHRONICLE ARCHIVES

Paper: HOUSTON CHRONICLE
Date: WED 09/12/1990
Section: C
Page: 11
Edition: 2 STAR
Human remains found

Staff

MANVEL - Brazoria County authorities Tuesday were trying to identify human skeletal remains that were found near County Road 101 here.
The remains were found Monday by a person looking for bottles and cans along the road, about a mile east of Texas 288, authorities said. The remains were taken to the Harris County medical examiner's office for examination.
Officials said they had not determined the sex, age or cause of death. HOUSTON CHRONICLE ARCHIVES

Paper: HOUSTON CHRONICLE
Date: FRI 09/14/1990
Section: C
Page: 15
Edition: 2 STAR
Remains those of woman

Staff

MANVEL - Human skeletal remains found near here are those of a young white or Hispanic woman between the ages of 16-22, police Chief Tommie Tolson said Thursday.
The skeleton was found Monday by someone looking for bottles and cans near a private trash dump on County Road 101, about a quarter-mile east of Texas 288.
The dead woman had a silver ring with a turquoise unicorn on her right hand and a pearlescent bead-type bracelet on her right arm, authorities said.
A Harris County medical examiner's report also concluded that she had knee problems, Tolson said. Tolson asked that anyone with information about the woman's identity call Manvel police at 489-1212 or the medical examiner's office.

[MrsG728]

WOW Rknowley, Great find!
I am going to plug that baby into google earth to see what I can see about the area.

Thanks so much for that info. Now, the story originally said this person stopped off the side of the road to urinate. :waitasec: How did it come to a trash picker? Ugh, another case of selective reporting or mixed up stories. How are we ever going to solve this case with so many variables.

Applause for you, my friend on this info. Thanks! :)

MG

[RKnowley]

MrsG, maybe they thought it sounded more polite, appealing to say they were looking for bottles instead of pulling over to take a leak? LOL :confused:

ETA: Note there was no mention of the HS class ring. I guess they thought that was their best clue and wanted to investigate it before revealing that info. So, I guess the HS ring info wasn't released to the public until 2006?

WOW Rknowley, Great find!
I am going to plug that baby into google earth to see what I can see about the area.

Thanks so much for that info. Now, the story originally said this person stopped off the side of the road to urinate. :waitasec: How did it come to a trash picker? Ugh, another case of selective reporting or mixed up stories. How are we ever going to solve this case with so many variables.

Applause for you, my friend on this info. Thanks! :)

MG

[RKnowley]

I created this page on findagrave.com (It gets a lot of traffic) for Princess Blue and added her sketches and the ring to the photos. You can also leave flowers there for her and notes. If you click on the images you get a description of the photos. What do you all think of it? Should anything be added or subtracted?


http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=19045674

[RKnowley]

MrsG,
Let us know what you find out about the area on google earth.

WOW Rknowley, Great find!
I am going to plug that baby into google earth to see what I can see about the area.

Thanks so much for that info. Now, the story originally said this person stopped off the side of the road to urinate. :waitasec: How did it come to a trash picker? Ugh, another case of selective reporting or mixed up stories. How are we ever going to solve this case with so many variables.

Applause for you, my friend on this info. Thanks! :)

MG

[Jaded]

The find a grave idea is good.

With regard to the class ring - do you think there is a possibility that she wasn't wearing it on her finger at all, but maybe on a necklace or yarn string? I really think we need to find out what finger she had the ring on.

[SadieMae]

Aw, poor guy - what kind of surgery did he have?
He bloated, life & death thing, major surgery...thread on it is in pet section. A Dane owner's worse nightmare! They can die in little as 30 minutes.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48669

[SadieMae]

The find a grave idea is good.

With regard to the class ring - do you think there is a possibility that she wasn't wearing it on her finger at all, but maybe on a necklace or yarn string? I really think we need to find out what finger she had the ring on.
I'm sure the info we have said the ring was on a skeletal finger. We're trying to find out which finger, and the size of the other rings. It was common for girls to wear large rings on a necklace, usually their boyfriends ring. I think it was verified the ring was a female class ring.

[Jaded]

I'm sure the info we have said the ring was on a skeletal finger. We're trying to find out which finger, and the size of the other rings. It was common for girls to wear large rings on a necklace, usually their boyfriends ring. I think it was verified the ring was a female class ring.

then they probably withheld the class ring info from the press, but wow - I'm just a little bewildered at how much the vital stats have changed over the last week or so with regard to Princess Blue.

[SadieMae]

I was thinking more about another post that maybe PB was illegal. I thought of the Yesenia Nungaray Doe case. She was 16, and left Mexico, found dead as UID.

http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art27380.asp

From this article, many teens leave to come to the US. I just can't put her together the REL ring, unless PB had relatives in Houston. Another thing confusing me is the race, and see it has been changed to caucasian. I have seen many of hispanic ancestry, that were blonde/blue. I haven't found a post yet on how hispanic was included, although I know recent tests had been done on her remains.

I have a very strong feeling her body was dumped and she was killed elsewhere from the lack of clothing articles found with her remains, unless they haven't disclosed it. But why wouldn't they? Anything made of polyester or other synthetic surely won't decompose in a years time out in the elements. Maybe cotton or silk since they are organic.

With all our speculation on her race, age, height, etc., that RING needs to stay our main focus...imo.

Will get back later...."lap dog" has returned. Did I mention while I'm keeping him off my lap, Ms BooBooBad finds it the perfect opportunity to tap dance on the keyboard? She loves making the computer go beep-beeep.:doh:

[sloane]

Hi all, sorry that I haven't been on much to help out but I have been really busy with work and the kids. I have been composing a list of missing persons sites by state and will post it as soon as I am completed. You all are doing such a great job, I have every confidence that we will break this case and bring our Princess Blue back to her family.
Hi there teonspaleprincess,
I have to say, I don't know how you do all that you do anyway..So THANKS for you work putting together the list of MP sites. That must be no small task!