Teacher Accused Of Writing Love Letters To 12 Yr. Old Student

[White Rain]

Geez, WHAT is going on with the teachers today???

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/13272259/detail.html

CLAYTON COUNTY, Ga. -- A Clayton County mother has been granted a temporary restraining order after she said her 12-year-old son received love letters from his 42-year-old teacher.

The alleged situation came to light when another teacher thought Tonya Johnson was a little too close to a 12-year-old boy, investigators said. Then the teacher discovered a love letter in the trash and turned it over to the principal.

“I want you to be with me. I know that we are both with someone else, but that’s going to change one day," the letter read.

It’s a typical love letter: A woman expresses her affection for the object of her desire. But in this case, the object of the writer's desire is a 12-year-old boy, according to the boy's mother, and the writer is his teacher and she's married.

Once the boy’s mother found out about the letter, she said she was shocked at what she read.

The letter also reads, “I have been suffering in this marriage a long time and you seem to be the only peace in my life.” (more at link)

[SewingDeb]

She has serious problems! I'm surprised she was allowed to teach one more day after the letter was found.

[reb]

notice how everything in the letter is all geared around what SHE wants and what's best for HER.. no mention about what's best for the boy.. someone's a little self-absorbed with a bad case of tunnel vision,, no....>?

i think she is stuck (reverting) back to a 12-year old in her mind.. due to not dating enough before marriage, or the stress of an unhappy situation plus hormomal issues (i.e., menopause?).... although to be fair.. i DON'T think that the contents of the letter should have been published, as is says it was "ALLEGED" to have been written by her... what happened to innocent til proven guilty?? it could have been a fantasy that went too far in her mind.. she could have been 'exeorcising it by writing it out & throwing it away.. and she may have thrown the letter out instead of giving it to him, so he may not have ever seen it... but with all the child molesting that goes on (and, always has,, it's nothing new!).. these days even having thoughts can be a crime. and although 'thought crime' is a tricky issue (refer to orwell's 1984..!) i can certainly understand why.. because all too often unhealthy thoughts that are allowed to run wild lead to actions.. and therefore negative consequences.

it's good the other teacher was aware enough to stop what was developing there.. and clearly the woman needs help dealing whatever she's dealing with.. and it was best for her to resign. but is she a criminal? no.

and again, i don't see how this made the national news... but the media loves a juicy story, especially when it involves teachers and kids.....!

[White Rain]

notice how everything in the letter is all geared around what SHE wants and what's best for HER.. no mention about what's best for the boy.. someone's a little self-absorbed with a bad case of tunnel vision,, no....>?

i think she is stuck (reverting) back to a 12-year old in her mind.. due to not dating enough before marriage, or the stress of an unhappy situation plus hormomal issues (i.e., menopause?).... although to be fair.. i DON'T think that the contents of the letter should have been published, as is says it was "ALLEGED" to have been written by her... what happened to innocent til proven guilty?? it could have been a fantasy that went too far in her mind.. she could have been 'exeorcising it by writing it out & throwing it away.. and she may have thrown the letter out instead of giving it to him, so he may not have ever seen it... but with all the child molesting that goes on (and, always has,, it's nothing new!).. these days even having thoughts can be a crime. and although 'thought crime' is a tricky issue (refer to orwell's 1984..!) i can certainly understand why.. because all too often unhealthy thoughts that are allowed to run wild lead to actions.. and therefore negative consequences.

it's good the other teacher was aware enough to stop what was developing there.. and clearly the woman needs help dealing whatever she's dealing with.. and it was best for her to resign. but is she a criminal? no.

and again, i don't see how this made the national news... but the media loves a juicy story, especially when it involves teachers and kids.....!


I just put myself in the parents shoes...if a teacher of your child had even been "alleged" to do something like this wouldn't you wanna know?

[reb]

yes, of course!!! but does it have to be nationwide news,, that's my question. it almost seems like the media loves to spread juicy gossip, not real news.. (then again, here i am reading it!). i disagree with the fact that they printed the contents of the note when #1) it was thrown in the trash, possibly never even read.. and #2) it was ALLEGED to be written by her-- so far not proven. granted, odds are that she did write it, but that just seems like very irresponsible journalism to me.

but i suppose this is also done to publicly humiliate the person as much as possible, to deter others from even entertaining such thoughts in the future..

[White Rain]

yes, of course!!! but does it have to be nationwide news,, that's my question. it almost seems like the media loves to spread juicy gossip, not real news.. (then again, here i am reading it!). i disagree with the fact that they printed the contents of the note when #1) it was thrown in the trash, possibly never even read.. and #2) it was ALLEGED to be written by her-- so far not proven. granted, odds are that she did write it, but that just seems like very irresponsible journalism to me.

but i suppose this is also done to publicly humiliate the person as much as possible, to deter others from even entertaining such thoughts in the future..


I don't think it's nationwide news...just my local GA news out of an Atlanta station. I respect your feelings on the subject but I can't agree with them...maybe because I have two small girls, and with all the news of the child rapes/killings these days I want to know about everything that goes on like this...I know it's supposed to be innocent until proven guilty, but in my own mind I think "Well, at least I know yet another person to keep my kids away from."
Fair? Maybe not..but when it comes to my kids I can't afford to be fair. Now I am not saying this woman is guilty, and there certainly has been nothing to say that she actually molested a child, but to me it doesn't matter...the fear is too much for me.

[txsvicki]

Well, I'd say that to write those sort of letters to a child is at least child abuse which is a crime. This woman and all teachers who do this sort of thing do need to be exposed because they are not fit to be around children and do not ever need a job again dealing with kids. Their husbands and family need to know what sickos they are involved with so that they can protect themselves and any kids. I imagine there was more going on in order to even say those things in the first place and that is sexual molestation. I think that there need to be more laws so that people who can proven to even be thinking about such a thing can be charged with a crime since only a pervert would even fantasize about being in love with a child.

[dingo]

Ditto txsvicki

[kahskye]

"Days before the school found out about the love letter, the mother said the teacher convinced her to allow her son to spend the weekend with her and her kids. The mother said her son says nothing happened."

This quote was taken from the first link above. Having my child's teacher convince me to take my kid for the entire weekend would have caused me some concern. I guess I'd need to know more about this boy's friendship to the teacher's kids and how often he had been at the teacher's house.

[reb]

OK.. but say that all she did was write a letter, and throw it in the trash. say she never did anything else, and the boy never read it. you're saying that makes her a criminal.....???

i just don't buy that. that means you can out anyone in jail for THINKING anything. is that the kind of society we want to live in? of course she has some serious mental problems that need to be addressed.,.. and she should not be teaching. she probably knows this now, since she DID resign. but unless there is evidence to the contrary, she did not commit an actual crime (unless you believe thoughts to be crimes).

[dingo]

Well to me ,even thinking about having a love affair with a child is wrong and borderline criminal.

[angelwngs]

It is getting to the point that I am almost ashamed to tell anyone that I was once a teacher...

[dingo]

Thats sad angelwngs.....you shouldnt feel that way...there are bad apples everywhere dont let these few spoil something of which you should be proud.

[sleuthin4fun]

This is the weirdest thing ever. I have a 12yo son. I can not imagine cute as he is any 42 yo women being "in love" with him. EWWWWW:loser:

[angelmom]

This is the weirdest thing ever. I have a 12yo son. I can not imagine cute as he is any 42 yo women being "in love" with him. EWWWWW:loser:

ITA. I have a 12yo son also, and he is a cutie. I can see why other 12yo's would think he is good looking, but I honestly can't imagine why a grown woman would be attracted to him. It's not just b/c he's my son - the same goes for his friends. He has some friends that are adorable. You know they are going to be great looking when they grow up, and you know the little middle school girls just love them, but attraction? Zero.

[Mr. E]

I teach. I'm with teenagers every single day. I do not see the attraction some people seem to have with them. They are children, for God's sake. Their brains aren't fully developed. I had a theory going that some young people entering the teaching profession do so because their own development is stunted, and in some crazy mixed-up way they see this as a way to meet members of the opposite sex for romantic purposes. Well, my theory is blown. This woman is 40. What on earth does a 40-year-old woman have in common with a 12-year-old boy?

[southcitymom]

Well to me ,even thinking about having a love affair with a child is wrong and borderline criminal.

I hear what you're saying, dingo, but I really hope thoughts aren't ever made even borderline criminal...or I am going to jail for sure! :eek:

[dingo]

Well unless they invent some sort of mind reading machine I think we,ll all be safe:p

[philamena]

I simply don't get it. Why don't these teachers realize that there is a line that is not suppose to be crossed between them and the students? (A line that shouldn't be crossed between a teacher and any child under 18?) I just don't get it. :banghead:
The teacher should loose her teachers license and be registered as a sexual something.....I'm not sure what she can be charged with if she had no actual physical contact with the boy. And at 12, he is a boy.

[sherri79]

my daughter turns 12 on the 18th. if 1 of her male teachers wrote those things about her i would try to get them charged with something. i would probably fail but i would try.

[Bobbisangel]

I believe it is a blessing that the other teacher found that letter. If not, it is hard to tell where this would have led. The teacher had already talked the mother into letting her boy spend the weekend with her. The kids were probably just thrown in there to sound good. She obviously had the hots for this young boy.

I don't understand what is going on with some teachers these days either. It doesn't seem to stop. I'm glad that these stories are printed in newspapers and on the media. It makes parents aware and to keep their eyes wide open. I guess we just have to remember that teachers are just regular people like ministers and people in every kind of profession that do these kind of things.
What an adult sees in a child is beyond me. I don't know what I would have done if something like this had happened to one of my kids when they were that age. I know I would have raised the roof or tore some hair though. It is beyond sickening.

[txsvicki]

Another sickening fact stated in the article is that the other letter found said that the woman's child confided in her that the 12 year old told him/her that he was in love with the teacher. The woman's kids must have known what was going on. I can think of only one reason an adult, male or female, would think they are in love with a child and that is pedophilia.

[southcitymom]

Another sickening fact stated in the article is that the other letter found said that the woman's child confided in her that the 12 year old told him/her that he was in love with the teacher. The woman's kids must have known what was going on. I can think of only one reason an adult, male or female, would think they are in love with a child and that is pedophilia.

Not all adults who have sexual contact with children or fantasize about having sexual contact with children are pedophiles (if so, every interested reader of Lolita would be a pedophile). From a law enforcement standpoint, children are actually more likely to be molested by someone in a crime of opportunity (ie...a drunk stepdad, etc..) than by someone who is a true "pedophile."

I do not know whether or not this woman is a pedophile. I doubt that she is.

I do know that when this phenomenon occurs between older woman and younger boys, there usually seems to be some psychiatric issues going on with the older woman - a stuntedness in their emotional development, an inability to feel safe with men their own age, a mother-type love that gets perverted in an incestual way. Not healthy - by any stretch of the imagination - but not guenuine pedohpelia, IMHO.

[Amraann]

OK.. but say that all she did was write a letter, and throw it in the trash. say she never did anything else, and the boy never read it. you're saying that makes her a criminal.....???

i just don't buy that. that means you can out anyone in jail for THINKING anything. is that the kind of society we want to live in? of course she has some serious mental problems that need to be addressed.,.. and she should not be teaching. she probably knows this now, since she DID resign. but unless there is evidence to the contrary, she did not commit an actual crime (unless you believe thoughts to be crimes).


YES!!!!! I am saying that makes her criminal!!
TO even have such thoughts about a 12 yo makes her a crazy sick women who should be locked up.
I do not agree that it is ok to write such a thing at all for ANY reason.
Her feeling the need to write it no matter what the result of the note was means she is a pedophile.

[Amraann]

Not all adults who have sexual contact with children or fantasize about having sexual contact with children are pedophiles (if so, every interested reader of Lolita would be a pedophile). From a law enforcement standpoint, children are actually more likely to be molested by someone in a crime of opportunity (ie...a drunk stepdad, etc..) than by someone who is a true "pedophile."

I do not know whether or not this woman is a pedophile. I doubt that she is.

I do know that when this phenomenon occurs between older woman and younger boys, there usually seems to be some psychiatric issues going on with the older woman - a stuntedness in their emotional development, an inability to feel safe with men their own age, a mother-type love that gets perverted in an incestual way. Not healthy - by any stretch of the imagination - but not guenuine pedohpelia, IMHO.


Sorry SCM but someone who thinks of children in a sexual way is in fact a pedophile...
It does not require the act of molesting them. By definition simply thinking about it makes one a pedophile.

[Jeana (DP)]

I think someone who is attracted to a child the age of 12 could be considered a pedophile.

[goddess]

I teach. I'm with teenagers every single day. I do not see the attraction some people seem to have with them. They are children, for God's sake. Their brains aren't fully developed. I had a theory going that some young people entering the teaching profession do so because their own development is stunted, and in some crazy mixed-up way they see this as a way to meet members of the opposite sex for romantic purposes. Well, my theory is blown. This woman is 40. What on earth does a 40-year-old woman have in common with a 12-year-old boy?

Not a damn thing.

[Masterj]

OK.. but say that all she did was write a letter, and throw it in the trash. say she never did anything else, and the boy never read it. you're saying that makes her a criminal.....???

i just don't buy that. that means you can out anyone in jail for THINKING anything. is that the kind of society we want to live in? of course she has some serious mental problems that need to be addressed.,.. and she should not be teaching. she probably knows this now, since she DID resign. but unless there is evidence to the contrary, she did not commit an actual crime (unless you believe thoughts to be crimes).

Please correct me if I am wrong, but when we were discussing the VA Tech shooter's creative writing classes, didn't you say he should have been arrested or expelled for his writing? :waitasec: If I am mistaken, I apologize.

[southcitymom]

I think someone who is attracted to a child the age of 12 could be considered a pedophile.

Yes, they could be - my point was just that not everyone who is attracted in such a manner is a pedophile. A pedopohile is attracted exclusively or primarily to prepubescent or peripubescent children.

This woman may or may not have become a sex offender, but we don't have enough information to call her a pedophile, IMHO.

[IrishMist]

Yes, they could be - my point was just that not everyone who is attracted in such a manner is a pedophile. A pedopohile is attracted exclusively or primarily to prepubescent or peripubescent children.

This woman may or may not have become a sex offender, but we don't have enough information to call her a pedophile, IMHO.

I'm not sure I'm following you, SCM. One can be a pedophile without ever taking any action at all.

Isn't a pedophile someone that is sexually attracted to children or child?

[southcitymom]

YES!!!!! I am saying that makes her criminal!!
TO even have such thoughts about a 12 yo makes her a crazy sick women who should be locked up.
I do not agree that it is ok to write such a thing at all for ANY reason.
Her feeling the need to write it no matter what the result of the note was means she is a pedophile.

Over the years, I've written plenty of inappropriate thoughts down. Journaling of thoughts is used by many groups as a platform for healing and growth.

I'm not saying this woman wrote this particular letter in an effort to help her heal or grow - I'm just saying that I think, with rare exception, people should be penalized ("locked up") for their harmful actions and not for their thoughts.

She is a pedophile if primarily or exclusively sexually attracted to children - nothing I've read has revealed that this is the case.

[southcitymom]

I'm not sure I'm following you, SCM. One can be a pedophile without ever taking any action at all.

Isn't a pedophile someone that is sexually attracted to children or child?

A pedophile is someone who is primarily or exclusively sexually attracted to children. Yes - I think it is the attraction and not the action that makes someone a pedophile, but the attraction needs to be primary and exclusive.

For example, the courts are filled with sexual molestation cases where an adult has molested a child not because the adult is a pedophile, but because the adult had sexual desire and opportunity and the child was "convenient." As you can imagine - drugs and alcohol are usually at play in these types of case.

If a drunken stepdad molests his 12-year-old stepdaughter because the mother is out of town, he's a child molester and he's a criminal, but in many cases he may not have a primary/exclusive sexual attraction to children. If the daughter had been 18 or 21, he might have tried the same thing. He may have a long history of being with only adult women and that may be his primary attraction. He took advantage of the young girl because it was convenient, not because his primary attraction is to young girls.

Does that make sense?

Horrible damage is done to the child either way, but child molestation does not always equal pedophelia.

PS - according to several things I have read, this type of sexual molestation (the scenario I described above) happens more than molestation at the hands of genuine pedophiles.

[IrishMist]

A pedophile is someone who is primarily or exclusively sexually attracted to children. Yes - I think it is the attraction and not the action that makes someone a pedophile, but the attraction needs to be primary and exclusive.

For example, the courts are filled with sexual molestation cases where an adult has molested a child not because the adult is a pedophile, but because the adult had sexual desire and opportunity and the child was "convenient." As you can imagine - drugs and alcohol are usually at play in these types of case.

If a drunken stepdad molests his 12-year-old stepdaughter because the mother is out of town, he's a child molester and he's a criminal, but in many cases he may not have a primary/exclusive sexual attraction to children. If the daughter had been 18 or 21, he might have tried the same thing. He may have a long history of being with only adult women and that may be his primary attraction. He took advantage of the young girl because it was convenient, not because his primary attraction is to young girls.

Does that make sense?

Horrible damage is done to the child either way, but child molestation does not always equal pedophelia.

PS - according to several things I have read, this type of sexual molestation (the scenario I described above) happens more than molestation at the hands of genuine pedophiles.

I see what you are saying. I'm not buying it, but I better understand where you are coming from, thanks for explaining. :)

[southcitymom]

I see what you are saying. I'm not buying it, but I better understand where you are coming from, thanks for explaining. :)

Would that I could be clear and concise, but, sadly, I lack that ability! :)

[IrishMist]

Would that I could be clear and concise, but, sadly, I lack that ability! :)

Well, I think that the concept you are putting forth is a difficult one, coupled with the fact that you are forced to choose your words carefully, so that none of us here think you are a champion of child molesters!

I think you've made an effort to try to understand what they are, not that you are condoning in any way.

I'm just having trouble wrapping my mind around the concept of situational molestation.

[Nova]

Well, I think that the concept you are putting forth is a difficult one, coupled with the fact that you are forced to choose your words carefully, so that none of us here think you are a champion of child molesters!

I think you've made an effort to try to understand what they are, not that you are condoning in any way.

I'm just having trouble wrapping my mind around the concept of situational molestation.

I understand SCM's point. Males in particular seem to be capable of all sorts of "situational" attractions that aren't consistent with a lifelong orientation. So men act out homosexually in prison or with animals in a rural setting where female partners aren't available. (Let's remember males have also been known to "have sex" with all manner of objects, including vegetables, baked goods and pillows.)

But the problem with adopting SCM's language--particularly in legal usages--is that we don't have separate words to distinguish between a person who fixates on a particular child (even momentarily) and persons with a lifelong orientation toward prepubescents.

And while there may be a benefit in drawing this distinction for purposes of treatment, when it comes time for sentencing, I personally don't care "how drunk" the perp was.

[southcitymom]

Well, I think that the concept you are putting forth is a difficult one, coupled with the fact that you are forced to choose your words carefully, so that none of us here think you are a champion of child molesters!

I think you've made an effort to try to understand what they are, not that you are condoning in any way.

I'm just having trouble wrapping my mind around the concept of situational molestation.

This is all true. I am, as I know you know, no fan of things that harm children.

And the distinction of pedophelia vs. situational molestation is possibly most "interesting" to people in the psychiatric field. It is interesting to me for reasons unknown - perhaps because I have friends who have been victims of both types of behavior. Perhaps because I feel like with more understanding, we have a shot at better solutions.

To be honest, situational molestation almost bothers me more. Pedophiles have to literally not act on their sexual desires to live non-criminally (from both a moral and legal standpoint) in the world, and I would have a hard time not acting on my sexual desires to live non-criminally in the world - so I can feel some empathy.

Situational molesters take advantage of the most helpless (children) because they can and to fulfill a desire that they could fulfill without harming the helpless.

In the case at issue in this thread, I think of Mary Kay LeTourneau. According to court documents, numerous evaluators found that she was not a pedophile and not a danger to other children (see this brief from The Court of Appeals in Washington http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=wa&vol=427601maj&searchval&invol=1 from which I pulled this line "The SSOSA evaluators were unanimous in their conclusions
that Letourneau is not a pedophile." )

She is an example of a situational molester...a rare example, I might add, in that drug and alcohol abuse did not seem to be a factor. She was simply compulsive about this one boy.

[southcitymom]

...And while there may be a benefit in drawing this distinction for purposes of treatment, when it comes time for sentencing, I personally don't care "how drunk" the perp was.

This - I agree with 100%. I am in no way shape or form calling for the courts to make molestation distinctions. I believe, though, that it can be helpful from the larger picture of treatment and societal understanding. I know many people could care less about understanding child molesters or pedophiles, but I do.

[Nova]

This - I agree with 100%. I am in no way shape or form calling for the courts to make molestation distinctions. I believe, though, that it can be helpful from the larger picture of treatment and societal understanding. I know many people could care less about understanding child molesters or pedophiles, but I do.

Sorry, SCM. I knew that, of course, and should have said so. I wasn't for a moment suggesting you were claiming there were "less harmful" forms of child molestation.

I am speculating, but in cases such as LeTourneau's, I suspect some teachers might be compared to men who function heterosexually in prison. Such teachers are attracted to a particular child because children are the teacher's "entire" world, just as a straight man in prison may be attracted to his "punk" because he is isolated from potential female partners.

This is why teachers (and parents) need healthy social relationships with other adults, apart from their necessarily close connections to children.

[southcitymom]

Sorry, SCM. I knew that, of course, and should have said so. I wasn't for a moment suggesting you were claiming there were "less harmful" forms of child molestation.

I am speculating, but in cases such as LeTourneau's, I suspect some teachers might be compared to men who function heterosexually in prison. Such teachers are attracted to a particular child because children are the teacher's "entire" world, just as a straight man in prison may be attracted to his "punk" because he is isolated from potential female partners.

This is why teachers (and parents) need healthy social relationships with other adults, apart from their necessarily close connections to children.

No offense taken at all, Nova! I just want to be extra-clear when discussing something so sensitive....and, as I have proved time and again, clarity and brevity don't always go hand in hand for me.

I think your LeTourneau/prison analogy is apt. Often, there seems to be a "different" type of dynamic occurring when older female teachers are attracted to young male students. I don't know quite how to "classify" it; I just don't necessarily classify it as pedophelia. There seems to be a tremendous fantasy element that is not necessarily connected to sex.

In this case, it seems the boy was not physically molested and for that I am grateful.

[sherri79]

i would like to understand them. if we understand them we may stop them before a child is hurt. if we understand them we can help the kids that are victims before some of them become predators. i think the best way to study them is in a controlled environment. until we can fix them why risk them on the street? jail till we have a cure imo. i am a mom and if a teacher came after my 12yr old little girl jail would be the least i wanted done to them.

[southcitymom]

i would like to understand them. if we understand them we may stop them before a child is hurt. if we understand them we can help the kids that are victims before some of them become predators. i think the best way to study them is in a controlled environment. until we can fix them why risk them on the street? jail till we have a cure imo. i am a mom and if a teacher came after my 12yr old little girl jail would be the least i wanted done to them.

My thoughts exactly. The vast majority of people who molest/abuse children were molested/abused as children.

[dingo]

I wish I had your compassion and understanding South......Ive become jaded and vengeful....theres just to many sad stories out there for me to be forgiving or understanding.

[sherri79]

My thoughts exactly. The vast majority of people who molest/abuse children were molested/abused as children.lol i am not sure i would have bolded the same part. for every child that is abused and will become a predator my heart breaks. once they are a predator lock them up and throw away the key. SCM is right that we need to understand them. we need more funding to help these kids before they become monsters. i tend to look at it like a terminal cancer. some kids have a greater risk of getting it later in life. i would love to find away to save these kids before it becomes terminal. once it is terminal sorry we cant help you but maybe we can find out what caused you to get it.

[southcitymom]

lol i am not sure i would have bolded the same part. for every child that is abused and will become a predator my heart breaks. once they are a predator lock them up and throw away the key. SCM is right that we need to understand them. we need more funding to help these kids before they become monsters. i tend to look at it like a terminal cancer. some kids have a greater risk of getting it later in life. i would love to find away to save these kids before it becomes terminal. once it is terminal sorry we cant help you but maybe we can find out what caused you to get it.

Yes, yes, Sheri. I didn't mean to imply that I think molesters should be roaming the streets! I surely don't. But I do have compassion and I do wish for understanding.

[southcitymom]

I wish I had your compassion and understanding South......Ive become jaded and vengeful....theres just to many sad stories out there for me to be forgiving or understanding.

This I understand so well, dingo. Believe me when I say I have a generous cloak of cynicism, but in the end I remain an unrepentant optimist. I have a genuine belief in the goodness of humanity though we are admittedly slow in reaching our potential. :)

[sherri79]

Yes, yes, Sheri. I didn't mean to imply that I think molesters should be roaming the streets! I surely don't. But I do have compassion and I do wish for understanding.i know you didn't hun.i have read your post here and on many other threads. you try more than most of us to see how some1 born with a innocent soul can turn to evil. a lot of the time i just see what they have done and don't care why. reading your post help me to keep the vengeful part of myself in check sometimes. most the time i still think fry em but sometimes u help me stay in check.

[southcitymom]

i know you didn't hun.i have read your post here and on many other threads. you try more than most of us to see how some1 born with a innocent soul can turn to evil. a lot of the time i just see what they have done and don't care why. reading your post help me to keep the vengeful part of myself in check sometimes. most the time i still think fry em but sometimes u help me stay in check.

That is very kind of you to say. It made me :blushing: .

[dingo]

This I understand so well, dingo. Believe me when I say I have a generous cloak of cynicism, but in the end I remain an unrepentant optimist. I have a genuine belief in the goodness of humanity though we are admittedly slow in reaching our potential. :)
You are very kind and very wise South.....I really do admire you:)

[southcitymom]

You are very kind and very wise South.....I really do admire you:)

The feeling is completely mutual, dear dingo! :blowkiss:

[IrishMist]

A pedophile is someone who is primarily or exclusively sexually attracted to children. Yes - I think it is the attraction and not the action that makes someone a pedophile, but the attraction needs to be primary and exclusive.

For example, the courts are filled with sexual molestation cases where an adult has molested a child not because the adult is a pedophile, but because the adult had sexual desire and opportunity and the child was "convenient." As you can imagine - drugs and alcohol are usually at play in these types of case.

If a drunken stepdad molests his 12-year-old stepdaughter because the mother is out of town, he's a child molester and he's a criminal, but in many cases he may not have a primary/exclusive sexual attraction to children. If the daughter had been 18 or 21, he might have tried the same thing. He may have a long history of being with only adult women and that may be his primary attraction. He took advantage of the young girl because it was convenient, not because his primary attraction is to young girls.

Does that make sense?

Horrible damage is done to the child either way, but child molestation does not always equal pedophelia.

PS - according to several things I have read, this type of sexual molestation (the scenario I described above) happens more than molestation at the hands of genuine pedophiles.


I'm still trying to understand this.

In my mind, there must be some predisposition toward children. I mean, I've been drunk. And I've been horny. Lord knows I've been both at the same time. But never. And I mean NEVER would I molest a child.

It seems to me that there has to be a latent aspect. I could even fathom a continuum of sorts. But I can not see a normal, healthy adult male molesting a child because the child is convenient.

[southcitymom]

I'm still trying to understand this.

In my mind, there must be some predisposition toward children. I mean, I've been drunk. And I've been horny. Lord knows I've been both at the same time. But never. And I mean NEVER would I molest a child.

It seems to me that there has to be a latent aspect. I could even fathom a continuum of sorts. But I can not see a normal, healthy adult male molesting a child because the child is convenient.

Me too, Irish. I would expect that vast majority of people can say the same thing.

But I don't think there necessarily has to be a predisposotion towards sex with children in the way a pedophile is predisposed.

This link explains a little more fully what I'm getting at http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal_mind/psychology/pedophiles/2.html

One excerpt:


"Molesters engage in sex with children for a variety of reasons and sometimes these reasons have little to do with sexual desires. This type of offender, called a situational child molester, does not possess a genuine sexual preference for children. Rather, the motivational factors are criminal in nature. In some cases, the offender’s sexual abuse of young people is a natural outgrowth of other forms of abuse in his life. That abuse is a continuation of a process by which he has mistreated his friends, colleagues, spouse and family members. He will have low self-esteem, maintain poor moral standards and view sex with children as an opportunity to prolong the violence that is already an active component of his existence. Other situational offenders see children as a substitute for an adult partner. Although these types of offenders do not harbor a singular sexual desire for children, they may react to a built up sexual impulse or anger, that to them, is irresistible. However, the victim is incidental. It could have been a store clerk, an elderly person or simply a woman walking down a lonely street. Because of the circumstances at hand, such as the Polly Klass incident, the victim happened to be a child. His main criteria for a victim is availability. The situational child molester will usually have few victims, sometimes only one, and never repeat the event again. He could be a social misfit or a psychopathic personality who harbors a seething resentment and hostility toward society in general.

[IrishMist]

Me too, Irish. I would expect that vast majority of people can say the same thing.

But I don't think there necessarily has to be a predisposotion towards sex with children in the way a pedophile is predisposed.

This link explains a little more fully what I'm getting at http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal_mind/psychology/pedophiles/2.html

One excerpt:


"Molesters engage in sex with children for a variety of reasons and sometimes these reasons have little to do with sexual desires. This type of offender, called a situational child molester, does not possess a genuine sexual preference for children. Rather, the motivational factors are criminal in nature. In some cases, the offender’s sexual abuse of young people is a natural outgrowth of other forms of abuse in his life. That abuse is a continuation of a process by which he has mistreated his friends, colleagues, spouse and family members. He will have low self-esteem, maintain poor moral standards and view sex with children as an opportunity to prolong the violence that is already an active component of his existence. Other situational offenders see children as a substitute for an adult partner. Although these types of offenders do not harbor a singular sexual desire for children, they may react to a built up sexual impulse or anger, that to them, is irresistible. However, the victim is incidental. It could have been a store clerk, an elderly person or simply a woman walking down a lonely street. Because of the circumstances at hand, such as the Polly Klass incident, the victim happened to be a child. His main criteria for a victim is availability. The situational child molester will usually have few victims, sometimes only one, and never repeat the event again. He could be a social misfit or a psychopathic personality who harbors a seething resentment and hostility toward society in general.

Ok. Finally! I get a better grasp after reading this, thank you for posting it.

[southcitymom]

Ok. Finally! I get a better grasp after reading this, thank you for posting it.

As usual, someone else describes it better than I can.

To me, it's a distinction worthy of considering, because not only are our children not safe at the hands of pedophiles, but also at the hands of other "high risk" individuals. ie - Just because someone's NOT a pedophile doesn't mean they aren't capable of sexually molesting my child. That's information that I want to have at my disposal.

[IrishMist]

As usual, someone else describes it better than I can.

To me, it's a distinction worthy of considering, because not only are our children not safe at the hands of pedophiles, but also at the hands of other "high risk" individuals. ie - Just because someone's NOT a pedophile doesn't mean they aren't capable of sexually molesting my child. That's information that I want to have at my disposal.

It's not necessarily your description. When reading about this type of thing, sometimes it needs to be presented from different angles before it sinks in for me. I also tend to get emotional about this subject, and am not reading from an objective viewpoint.

I appreciate you taking the time, and making the effort to make it understandable. (at least understandable to me)

[southcitymom]

This is another excellent article - an FBI article. It's a bit dated, but it does include statements to support the contention that most child sexual abuse cases encountered by investigators are situational in nature.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2194/is_n6_v63/ai_15704699

One major difference between a situational child molester and a preferential child molester (pedophile in action) is that a situational molester usually has very few victims, sometimes only one; whereas the preferential molester usually has numerous victims.

Sometimes I think that we tend to focus our rage and fear and efforts for justice more on the active pedophile because most of us have a very difficult time imagining how anyone could have a sexual preference for children - it seems so gruesome to most people. And yet, the world is littered with victims of situational molesters.

Both types need to be considered when we talk about protecting our children.

[IrishMist]

This is another excellent article - an FBI article. It's a bit dated, but it does include statements to support the contention that most child sexual abuse cases encountered by investigators are situational in nature.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2194/is_n6_v63/ai_15704699

One major difference between a situational child molester and a preferential child molester (pedophile in action) is that a situational molester usually has very few victims, sometimes only one; whereas the preferential molester usually has numerous victims.

Sometimes I think that we tend to focus our rage and fear and efforts for justice more on the active pedophile because most of us have a very difficult time imagining how anyone could have a sexual preference for children - it seems so gruesome to most people. And yet, the world is littered with victims of situational molesters.

Both types need to be considered when we talk about protecting our children.

And both types need to be locked up.

[southcitymom]

And both types need to be locked up.

Amen, sister!

[Texana]

Interesting that the other teacher found the letter.

Either the teacher left it where it could be found on purpose, or she did something that made the other teacher suspicious and on the lookout for something like that--Or so I think.

I agree, something is very wrong with teachers of today, and it would have been such a rare thing when I first started teaching--Now it's all too common.

[SewingDeb]

I'm still trying to understand this.

In my mind, there must be some predisposition toward children. I mean, I've been drunk. And I've been horny. Lord knows I've been both at the same time. But never. And I mean NEVER would I molest a child.

It seems to me that there has to be a latent aspect. I could even fathom a continuum of sorts. But I can not see a normal, healthy adult male molesting a child because the child is convenient.

I agree with you. Alcohol and drugs many times just lower the inhibitions so the true colors are seen. There would have to be some attraction to the child for molestation to take place. Most normal, healthy adults would be repelled by the thought even when under the influence.

[IrishMist]

I agree with you. Alcohol and drugs many times just lower the inhibitions so the true colors are seen. There would have to be some attraction to the child for molestation to take place. Most normal, healthy adults would be repelled by the thought even when under the influence.

If I'm understanding the concept correctly, what SCM is saying is that there is a difference between pedophiles and molesters. (Then add a third category of those that wouldn't harm a child in that manner.)

[SewingDeb]

If I'm understanding the concept correctly, what SCM is saying is that there is a difference between pedophiles and molesters. (Then add a third category of those that wouldn't harm a child in that manner.)

Thanks. I understand what she is saying. Even so, I think there has to be some attraction to children for the thought to even enter their minds.

[White Rain]

Thanks. I understand what she is saying. Even so, I think there has to be some attraction to children for the thought to even enter their minds.


I agree, and I don't care if it's one child, or twenty, they are a pedophile in my book and should, never be released from jail for the remainder of their life. I'd actually prefer death for them even on the first charge. but most of the time that doesn't happen.

[sherri79]

If I'm understanding the concept correctly, what SCM is saying is that there is a difference between pedophiles and molesters. (Then add a third category of those that wouldn't harm a child in that manner.) if i understand its 3 types. 1 normal people who wont hurt kids. 2 pedos that find kids sexy. 3 evil people who want to hurt some1 and dont care if you are 8 or 80.

[southcitymom]

if i understand its 3 types. 1 normal people who wont hurt kids. 2 pedos that find kids sexy. 3 evil people who want to hurt some1 and dont care if you are 8 or 80.

well spoken!

[sherri79]

so where would that leave us with this teacher? i wouldnt say she is in group 1. nor in group 3.

and does every1 in group 2 have to act on their feelings?are there people who find kids sexy but know it is wrong and any action will harm the child so they never ever act on it?

[IrishMist]

Thanks. I understand what she is saying. Even so, I think there has to be some attraction to children for the thought to even enter their minds.

No doubt in my mind.

[southcitymom]

so where would that leave us with this teacher? i wouldnt say she is in group 1. nor in group 3.

and does every1 in group 2 have to act on their feelings?are there people who find kids sexy but know it is wrong and any action will harm the child so they never ever act on it?

I would say that this teacher, like Mary Kay LeTourneau, would be categorized as a situational child molester if she had molested this child, which I don't think she did.

Certainly, it appears she was thinking of the child in an intimate way and perhaps thinking of having sexual contact with the child. I can't really tell from what I've read of the letter.

As to the - "do-all-pedophiles-act-criminally-on-their-urges" question, I can only say that I'm sure there are some who don't out of morality and instead fulfill themselves with fantasy. That said, we know there are many who do. This is one of those areas where more research should be done.

I don't think any of us HAVE to act on our sexual urges, but it's difficult not to!

[Jeana (DP)]

Yes, they could be - my point was just that not everyone who is attracted in such a manner is a pedophile. A pedopohile is attracted exclusively or primarily to prepubescent or peripubescent children.

This woman may or may not have become a sex offender, but we don't have enough information to call her a pedophile, IMHO.



Fair enough.

[sherri79]

i have read about a man whole liked to molest kids about 9-10 years old. he had toddlers at the time he was caught. he went to prison for a few years and his wife sttod by him. when it was time for him to get out he asked for a surgery first to remove his testi. he was scared he would molest his own kids who were 9-10 at the time of his release. the courts refused. the day he was let out of jail his lawyer took him for the surgery before he went home to his family.

i guess its the closest i have ever seen to morality in the case of a molester. it would have been better if he had the surgery before he ever touched the first child but atleast he knew as long as he had a sex drive he would want sex with kids so he did what he could to stop himself.

[southcitymom]

Thanks. I understand what she is saying. Even so, I think there has to be some attraction to children for the thought to even enter their minds.

Here's an example that you may find repugnant, but that might give some insight into how the attraction isn't necessarily "sexual" with some situational child molesters.

I once sponsored a woman who, in the course of a 5th step, admitted to me that when she was old enough to know better (late teens/early twenties) she had sexual contact once with a young boy. The contact was not for her own sexual gratification, but a result of a compulsion and poor impulse control. It should be noted that this woman has several mental illness diagnoses and that she may (big may - she really can't say for sure) have been sexually molested when she was a child.

This happened many many years ago and this woman has never had the urge to engage in this behavior since. Her predominant sexual orientation is homosexual and she has been in a long term homosexual relationship for years. Now, this woman molested a child. But it doesn't seem like she did it because of a sexual attraction - it seems like she did it because she knew she could get away with it because the child was too young to tell. She could have engaged in similar behavior with an animal - not because she has a sexual attraction to animals, but because - like the child - an animal can't tell and she could have gotten away with it.

[southcitymom]

i have read about a man whole liked to molest kids about 9-10 years old. he had toddlers at the time he was caught. he went to prison for a few years and his wife sttod by him. when it was time for him to get out he asked for a surgery first to remove his testi. he was scared he would molest his own kids who were 9-10 at the time of his release. the courts refused. the day he was let out of jail his lawyer took him for the surgery before he went home to his family.

i guess its the closest i have ever seen to morality in the case of a molester. it would have been better if he had the surgery before he ever touched the first child but atleast he knew as long as he had a sex drive he would want sex with kids so he did what he could to stop himself.

That's a powerful example of someone putting children ahead of their own urges to harm. Would that this type of selflessness were more common.

[sherri79]

No offense taken at all, Nova! I just want to be extra-clear when discussing something so sensitive....and, as I have proved time and again, clarity and brevity don't always go hand in hand for me.

I think your LeTourneau/prison analogy is apt. Often, there seems to be a "different" type of dynamic occurring when older female teachers are attracted to young male students. I don't know quite how to "classify" it; I just don't necessarily classify it as pedophelia. There seems to be a tremendous fantasy element that is not necessarily connected to sex.

In this case, it seems the boy was not physically molested and for that I am grateful. the fantasy vs just sex statement i would find true for most women. for men it can be sex and just sex much more often than for women. porn aimed at men only needs 1 or more bodies. porn aimed at women tends to add some fantasy the women can latch on to. so i don't find it surprising that male predators just grab any child they can and female think they are in love. men and women work different on a sexual level. we both have brains and know its wrong. that is why i tend to see her as no different than a male teacher who had necked sketches he drew from fantasy of a little girl in his class. a child was not touched or hurt. would we not think the male teacher was a danger?

[southcitymom]

the fantasy vs just sex statement i would find true for most women. for men it can be sex and just sex much more often than for women. porn aimed at men only needs 1 or more bodies. porn aimed at women tends to add some fantasy the women can latch on to. so i don't find it surprising that male predators just grab any child they can and female think they are in love. men and women work different on a sexual level. we both have brains and know its wrong. that is why i tend to see her as no different than a male teacher who had necked sketches he drew from fantasy of a little girl in his class. a child was not touched or hurt. would we not think the male teacher was a danger?

I agree with this insightful post and, in terms of molestation, a kiss from a woman who thinks she is in love has the same trust-damaging effects as one from a man who is "just" sexually motivated. Always, child molestation reaps terrible consequences for the child - regardless of what path the adult took to get to a point where they were willing to cross such a boundary.

[sherri79]

I agree with this insightful post and, in terms of molestation, a kiss from a woman who thinks she is in love has the same trust-damaging effects as one from a man who is "just" sexually motivated. Always, child molestation reaps terrible consequences for the child - regardless of what path the adult took to get to a point where they were willing to cross such a boundary.and i agree that research and understanding can help greatly in these cases. what makes a boy who is molested more likely to become a predator than a girl? how should boy and girl victims be treated differently to ensure they don't become molesters? drugs to lower a mans sex drive can lessen the chance he re-offends, will that work as well for women? once a adult crosses the line i really don't care about why any more. i hope more research in this area could save the kids before they ever get to that point. until we get that cure for the kids the only hope i see is to lock the adult offenders away for life so we at least keep them from harming more kids and spreading their sickness.

[White Rain]

UPDATE: Teacher Speaks Out



CLAYTON COUNTY, Ga. -- The Clayton County teacher accused of writing love letters to a 12-year-old student says God has forgiven her and she wants everyone to do the same.

Channel 2’s Tom Jones broke the story of the letters that now have Tonya Johnson under investigation.

Jones said he repeatedly tried to get Johnson’s side of the story before Channel 2’s initial story aired earlier this week. After the story aired, Jones sent Johnson a letter and that’s when Johnson called him to explain her side of the story.

“I am not in love with a 12-year-old boy. The only person I am in love with is my husband,” said Johnson.

Johnson is accused of writing a letter to a 12-year-old student which says, “I have been suffering in this marriage for a long time and you seem to be the only peace in my life.”

The Clayton County school system allowed Johnson to resign in lieu of being fired when they found out about the alleged letter.

The boy’s mother got a temporary protective order after Johnson apparently sent another letter and called the boy’s home.

Johnson told Jones, “I asked God for forgiveness and he has forgiven me. I asked the parents for forgiveness and they have chosen not to.” She also told Jones, “Everybody in life makes mistakes and I made a mistake.”

She said people might not understand what happened but that God understands.

Jones said Johnson would only talk if she was allowed to speak without being questioned.

Johnson said she’s ready to move on with her life.
http://www.wsbtv.com/news/13297775/detail.html

[sherri79]

ok this letter bothers me. i dont see the personal responsibility i would expect. Jones said Johnson would only talk if she was allowed to speak without being questioned. sometimes when you screw up this big you dont get to set the rules about how much you suffer to get people to forgive you.The boy’s mother got a temporary protective order after Johnson apparently sent another letter and called the boy’s home.after she gets caught with 1 letter she sends another and calls. no wonder mom dont forgive her. just because you say you are sorry does not make it true. just because you are sorry does not mean you have the right to expect forgiveness.

[White Rain]

ok this letter bothers me. i dont see the personal responsibility i would expect. sometimes when you screw up this big you dont get to set the rules about how much you suffer to get people to forgive you.after she gets caught with 1 letter she sends another and calls. no wonder mom dont forgive her. just because you say you are sorry does not make it true. just because you are sorry does not mean you have the right to expect forgiveness.


In that letter she wrote she sure doesn't sound like she's in love with her husband!

[Mygirlsadie]

White Rain...you said it right when you said when it comes to your kids you cant afford to be fair! I agree with you. I won't take chances when it comes to my kids and if I am proven wrong in the end then I will apologize & if I hurt someones feelings I am sorry but when it comes to them they come first and I will worry about fairness later. My daughter is almost 14 and one of her male teachers made a comment to her that I found inapropriate.He basically was questioning her about who she dates and then he said something along the lines of ''well I am sure any boys wouldnt mind you spreading your seed in their pollen''....I was shocked mad wanted to kill him pull her out of the school wanted him fired you name it! I don't know what the outcome of it is going to be because its not over yet but I don't play when it comes to her or my sons. Keep your grubby paws off and keep your dirty comments to yourself because teachers are there to teach they are not there to check out the highschool hunk or the school beauty queen or give their input on my childs love life...(or lack there-of)


I don't think it's nationwide news...just my local GA news out of an Atlanta station. I respect your feelings on the subject but I can't agree with them...maybe because I have two small girls, and with all the news of the child rapes/killings these days I want to know about everything that goes on like this...I know it's supposed to be innocent until proven guilty, but in my own mind I think "Well, at least I know yet another person to keep my kids away from."
Fair? Maybe not..but when it comes to my kids I can't afford to be fair. Now I am not saying this woman is guilty, and there certainly has been nothing to say that she actually molested a child, but to me it doesn't matter...the fear is too much for me.

[southcitymom]

I think it's great that the boy's parents and the school administrators moved swiftly to protect the child once all of this started to unfold.

It does not sound like this teacher will be able to teach again and that's an appropriate outcome. I hope she seeks counseling for whatever stressors led her to become infatuated with this child and act so recklessly.

[White Rain]

White Rain...you said it right when you said when it comes to your kids you cant afford to be fair! I agree with you. I won't take chances when it comes to my kids and if I am proven wrong in the end then I will apologize & if I hurt someones feelings I am sorry but when it comes to them they come first and I will worry about fairness later. My daughter is almost 14 and one of her male teachers made a comment to her that I found inapropriate.He basically was questioning her about who she dates and then he said something along the lines of ''well I am sure any boys wouldnt mind you spreading your seed in their pollen''....I was shocked mad wanted to kill him pull her out of the school wanted him fired you name it! I don't know what the outcome of it is going to be because its not over yet but I don't play when it comes to her or my sons. Keep your grubby paws off and keep your dirty comments to yourself because teachers are there to teach they are not there to check out the highschool hunk or the school beauty queen or give their input on my childs love life...(or lack there-of)

I am sorry your daughter had to go through that, and it was VERY inappropriate. I am glad you took action and hope the outcome is favorable for you and your daughter.